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#debian IRC Logs for 2008-10-05

---Logopened Sun Oct 05 00:00:29 2008
---Daychanged Sun Oct 05 2008
00:00<simonrvn>do an lvscan or vgscan
00:00<eddieB>does anyone know to get this script?
00:01<Tengu>maybe search avitools ?
00:02<eddieB>Tengu: is that a website or something?
00:03<Tengu>package name. but it's not on debian, according to -.-
00:03<Tengu>what a pitty.
00:04<Tengu>eddieB: ah, seems it's in "transcode" package.
00:05<eddieB>Tengu: so i can download it?
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00:05<Tengu>use apt-cache search. don't have any debian here for now.
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00:07<eddieB>sorry, i'm a noob. i'm not sure what you mean. "apt-cache search avisplit"?
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00:07<Tengu>apt-cache search transcode.
00:08<Tengu>as, according to some results on google, avisplit is part of transcode package.
00:09<Tengu>and then, apt-get install <package name> . maybe you should learn a bit system basics before trying to "play" with videos
00:10<eddieB>which package do i install? quicktime-utils?
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00:15<dylanwh>simonrvn: it doesn't show up in vgscan
00:16<dylanwh>and it's not being filtered by /etc/lvm/lvm.conf either.
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00:19<simonrvn>ok, so use vgchange -ay; modify that if you don't want to "re-add" your currently used vg, then run the scan again.
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00:37<Ed____________>I've just installed a 2nd NIC on my Etch system, I'm not sure how to edit "/etc/network/interfaces" to allow eth1 to connect to the internet via the cable modem only.
00:37<pgpkeys>if eth0:0 is in fact the first alias on a device and NOT in fact the real actual device (like an array would normally be aka eth[i]:[i] where the subscript starts at 0) why do all linuxes start with eth0:1 as the default first IP alias on a device rather than eth0:0?
00:39<kop>Ed____________ : You're using dhcp on the cable modem side? I'd expect there'd be an example dhcp config line shown in "man interfaces".
00:41<Ed____________>Yes, but adding the line "auto eth1 inet dhcp" then restarting it gives "ignoring unknown interface eth1=eth1"
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00:41<Ed____________>Is this a driver/module problem?
00:41<Gekz>got enough underscores?
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00:43<kop>Ed____________ : I suspect there may be issues surrounding /etc/udev/rules.d/z25_persistent-net-rules (iirc) Check there to see if eth1 is already defined to be another nic with another mac address. If so then delete (or comment out) the offending line.
00:44<kop>Ed____________ : "ifconfig -a" says what interfaces the box thinks it has.
00:44<kp>does the box see both nics? that would be my first question
00:44<Ed____________>Yes ifconfig -a displays both NICs + the loopback device
00:44<Ed____________>eth0 and eth1
00:46<chealer>Ed____________: restarting what?
00:46<Ed____________>/etc/init.d/networking restart
00:46<kop>Ed____________ : You may want to pastebin your interfaces file. Gotta go. bye.
00:46<gsimmons>Ed____________: You're required to define an "iface" stanza for eth1 as well.
00:49<Ed____________>I thought that you shouldn't need one since i'm not defining a static IP - it's going to be given one via DHCP
00:50<Ed____________>If I do, what do i put into the "address" field
00:50<Ed____________>(sorry i'm pretty new to debian still so.. )
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00:51<kp>Ed____________: this should work for your needs as well:
00:51<kp>that many __ is pretty fing annoying too btw
00:52<kp>debian is one of the simplist distros imo. google can find anything. use search terms like +debian +whatever you want and you will prolyl find it
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00:53<chealer>"auto eth1 inet dhcp" won't do what you intend. auto only takes interfaces names. eth1 being configured by dhcp is defined on another line
00:53<kp>aw ^^
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00:56<Golfgeo>Hi all
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01:47<Yar>is there any flash player for x86_64?
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01:48<craigevil>gnash or use ndiswrapper to run it with the 32 bit libs
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01:48<Yar>gnash is very buggy...
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01:49<simonrvn>nspluginwrapper you mean
01:50<Yar>ok, i will try it
01:50<stew>Yar: for which version of debian?
01:50<craigevil>simonrvn: yeah that :), never ran 64bit so its a bit hard remembering some of the terms
01:51<stew>judd: versions flashplugin-nonfree --arch amd64
01:51<judd>stew: flashplugin-nonfree: 1:1.4~bpo40+1 (etch-backports/contrib) 1:1.7.2 (sid/contrib) 1:1.7.2+fp10.20080811 (experimental/contrib)
01:51*simonrvn pats judd
01:51<stew>Yar: there isn't one on lenny, but you could use the sid version of flashplugin-nonfree to get flash on lenny
01:52*simonrvn pats stew on the back "such a nice add-on for supybot"
01:52<Yar>i tried nspluginwrapper, it's work
01:53<stew>Yar: the flashplugin-nonfree package does the work for you
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01:53<Yar>and how i can now remove manual-installed version?
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02:15<Yar>flashplugin-nonfree from sid can't be installed, it's no candidates to install
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02:26*fxiny slaps a Shark Aussy rag doll
02:27<fxiny>oui oui;)
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02:44<Yar>How can I automaticly mount ntfs?
02:45<dpkg>[ntfs] Windows NT's filesystem. There are 3 main drivers in Debian, a Linux driver only able to read and FUSE drivers able to write too. For information about the former, ask me about <ntfsro>. For information about the read/write access, ask me about <ntfsrw>. See also and
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02:50<simonrvn>Yar: man mount; man fstab; you'd add an entry to fstab for your ntfs partition
02:50<simonrvn>i recommend using ntfs-3g if you want r/w access.
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02:51<dpkg>If you want read/write access to NTFS filesystems, ask me about <ntfs-3g> or use ntfsmount from ntfsprogs
02:51<dpkg>rumour has it, ntfs-3g is a user-space NTFS driver with write support and good performance. It is available in Lenny, or through for Etch (ask me about <> for instructions and see Usage examples:
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02:51<fxiny>Yar: msg dpkg ntfsrw
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02:55<Yar>ok, it's work with r/w
02:56<Yar>but why I can't define mount point and options during installation? will it be corrected?
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02:58<fxiny>Yar: edit your fstab . check out this one : /msg dpkg ntfsro
02:58<fxiny>mind the ro
03:00<Yar>i have edited it. But if any windows-user wanted install debian, it wouldl be frighted, because he didn't see his disks ))
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03:01<fxiny>Yar: does google charge windows users ? ;)
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03:02<Yar>And can I somehow copy my installed and configured Debian to other machine?
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03:04<fxiny>Yar: i like jablicator , about conf seaerch for puppets and or cfengine
03:04<fxiny>but you can just load a dpkg --get-selections
03:05<Yar>and if i will install some progrqams not from debian and would want to copy them too
03:06<fxiny>not from debian ?
03:07<fxiny>you mean compiled programs ?
03:07<fxiny>Yar: are you sure debian can't provide the same or a similar packaged program ?
03:08<Yar>ok, I will solve this problem later, if it's really will be needed
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03:14<dpkg>methinks kde4 is a new and not-yet-complete version of the KDE desktop. It will not be released with Lenny but backports of KDE 4 packages are likely to be made. (For lenny backports, see See Experimental packages for KDE 4.1 are available at but ask about these in #debian-kde, not #debian. See <kde version>.
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03:16<dpkg>somebody said xchat was a nifty irc client that has gnome and transperancy and panel and shaded transperancy and scripting and other cool stuff, or broken because it eats private /msg at least half the time, or doesnt eat /msg at all for some people, or for win32 xchat : or #xchat @, or in violation of GPL
03:17<dpkg>rumour has it, codepage is ^ = itch | ? = bitch | {} = wank | + = lol | § = ass | () = daddy | >> = bitch | << = evil | ~ = tupay | /
03:17<dpkg>russian is probably Pogalujsta, zajdite na #debian-russian :)
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03:19<dpkg>utf8 is probably how the Perl and PHP people spell UTF-8. See also <UTF-8>.
03:19<dpkg>somebody said utf-8 was Unicode encoding and ISO 10646 characters as multibyte characters. RFC 2044. A superset of US-ASCII, can represent the full international characterset range of Unicode. See bug #214254 and, or And try <lang>_<CC>.utf8 as your LANG variable. Eg: export LANG=en_US.utf8 (for a US-centric view of things). Read /usr/share/doc/groff/README.Debian to fix ...
03:19<cogwheel>!msg the bot
03:19<dpkg>Please message the bot... not doing so could be considered an unnecessary flood. Instead of typing "!tell <your nick> about <topic>" you can just type "/msg dpkg <topic>". See also <selftell>. Also visit to learn how to effectively use the factoids database, or ask me about <bot help> <help>
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03:30<tuv>is there a way for wmii to work with 9base in debian (rc.wmii)? it complains about an out-of-date 9base
03:30<fxiny>etch ?
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03:31<fxiny>dunno , not yet installed in lenny i'm moving to xmonad/awesome
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03:34<tuv>fxiny, i'll probably give xmonad a try, but i still think wmii is awsome ;) though no rc.wmii for me, only wmiirc
03:36<fxiny>tuv: no , wmii is good in etch cause it just work . check out xmonad and awesome , don't forget dmenu and dzen
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03:41<tuv>fxiny, what is the difference between xmonad and awsome, and how would you use both? aren't they alternatives?
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03:45<Golfgeo>Hi all
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03:46<fxiny>tuv: haskell ?
03:46<Golfgeo>Got a VirtualBox question: Do my client vm's see both my cores of my dualcore Pentium 4 cpu?
03:46<kapil>fxiny, tuv: haskell vs lua (for awesome 3)
03:47<tuv>well, from a user's point of view?
03:48<stuckey>Can anyone tell me the name of a DVI file viewer? I used one once that was called 'xdvi' but I can't install it with apt-get by that name. Anyone know?
03:48<fxiny>tuv: from a user point of view haskell vs lua is the main difference when starting/setting it up . checkout xonad home page
03:48<stuckey>(am using this for viewing latex output)
03:48<kapil>stuckey: it is part of texlive
03:48<stuckey>Ah, okay thanks.
03:48<stuckey>texlive doesn't come with standard debian installation?
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03:49<kapil>the package texlive-base-bin to be precise
03:49<jackyf>stuckey: probably no
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03:49<jackyf>it's quite big
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03:50<tuv>fxiny, so which has the advantage?
03:50<Gnuspice>'elo all - is here a good place to ask a rather tricky packaging question (conffile related), or is there a more suitable channel?
03:50<Golfgeo>Found the awnser :-( No guest dual core support yet...
03:50<stuckey>Has any of you used lyx?
03:51<fxiny>tuv: i think xmonad had somehow the edge but awesome seems catching up , as usual is a matter of personal taste
03:51<tuv>emacs/auctex/ref -> killer combo
03:51<Golfgeo>stuckey: Tryed: apt-cache search xdvi ?
03:51<Golfgeo>Never mind...
03:51<stuckey>golfgeo: yes, didn't get anything.
03:52<fxiny>tuv: xmonad can run in gnome and kde
03:52<kapil>Gnuspice: try debian-mentors
03:52<stuckey>What precisely is tex live? Is it just certain parts of the latex language and programs or???
03:52<Golfgeo>stuckey: kapil awnsered with: texlive ...
03:52<stuckey>I'm downloading that now.
03:52<Golfgeo>Dammed virtualbox!
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03:52<Gnuspice>kapil: sweet, thanks
03:52<stuckey>Be glad you're able to run it (PowerPc users aren't so lucky.)
03:53<fxiny>tuv: anyway dzen and dmenu are very interesting
03:53<Golfgeo>Still would have liked to use it corectly right now...
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03:53<Golfgeo>It also crashes when I shut down a debian client on a Debian host...
03:54<Golfgeo>Installing W2k to see if that also happens with a windows client on the Debian host
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03:57<Golfgeo>Dammed weather too!
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04:02<Golfgeo>All those leafs withering away and falling from the trees! Dammed shame...
04:03<stuckey>Does anyone know what the difference is between a wireless connection that is connected at a Bit Rate of 1 Mb/s, and a wireless connection that is connected at a higher Bit Rate /s?
04:04<stuckey>Will one be faster than the other, e.g., does bit rate have to do with how fast you can transfer data?
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04:06<Golfgeo>Oh yea, during the install of W2k it reboots and starts again in the second stage of the install...
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04:10<digifor>Using eeepc. lenny. SD 4g memory card. gparted /dev/sdb "No Devices Detected" What to do?
04:11<tzafrir_laptop>digifor, cat /proc/partitions
04:11<tzafrir_laptop>this will show you existing disks and partitions
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04:12<digifor>It is only showing sda sdb. also be there.
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04:14<petern>stuckey, yes
04:14<tzafrir_laptop>digifor, maybe that device is not partitioned? Maybe there is a single partition without a partition table?
04:15<tzafrir_laptop>Can you mount /dev/sda itself? /dev/sdb? (better try those read-only)
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04:15<tzafrir_laptop>alternatively: are there messages about read errors from those devices?
04:15<stuckey>Thanks patern. So I've a wireless connection to a WPA-PSK network, and it doesn't witch from 1 MB/s (it displays 11 MB/s in the modem settings page, but iwconfig says 1 MB/s)
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04:17<stuckey>patern: So could I just set rate with iwconfig?
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04:17<craigevil>digifor: which eee model? might want to take a look at
04:17<Woet>On rare occasions, people get the error 'Cannot open your terminal '/dev/pts/14''. This is usually when they use 'screen' right when someone else does. Is this a bug in screen?
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04:18<Woet>Oh, now it says 'No more PTY's'
04:19<digifor>craigevil, that may be what I need.
04:23<fxiny>ee ? btw , will e1000e /. patch enter lenny ?
04:24<Woet>.. anyone?
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06:28<ansgar>fxiny: That's only broken in 2.6.27, not 2.6.26, isn't it?
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06:30<petern>Nasty bug
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06:38<monomelodies>hi all
06:38<monomelodies>i'm having some serious issues with my debian box
06:39<fxiny>ansgar: i guess is not fixed in 2.6.26 as well . just guessing
06:39<monomelodies>and was hoping someone here might be able to help :)
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06:40<crazyb0y>hey fxiny =)
06:40*fxiny modprobes crystall_ball.ko
06:40<fxiny>crazyb0y: hey :)
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06:41<crazyb0y>i dunno why my debian testing installed on my laptop didn't autoprobe for my wireless card
06:42<monomelodies>i was running unstable fine until yesterday, but it crashed hard overnight
06:42<monomelodies>a reboot hung on "net registered protocol 2"
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06:43<monomelodies>so after having tried a lot of stuff and confirming it shouldn't be a hardware issue
06:43<monomelodies>i thought, maybe a dying hd
06:43<monomelodies>bunged in a new one and attempted reinstall
06:43<monomelodies>same issue
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06:43<crazyb0y>monomelodies: whar are you trying ?
06:43<monomelodies>at this point, booting would be nice :)
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06:44<monomelodies>from what i've found on google it could be an issue with my gigabyte mb
06:44<crazyb0y>LBA ?
06:44-!-stevecotton [] has joined #debian
06:44<monomelodies>but passing nolapic etc. options doesn't help
06:45<crazyb0y>i'm using ~500GB hdd's on my debian servers, and i don't have any problems
06:45<monomelodies>well, i'm not experiencing problems on any of my other boxes either
06:45<monomelodies>just this one
06:45<monomelodies>but then this is the only amd64 one
06:46<crazyb0y>try memtest, to check the memory
06:46<crazyb0y>it may be a memory failure
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06:46<monomelodies>one sec, haven't tried that yet i must admit
06:46<fxiny>ansgar: you might be right :
06:47<Woet>I keep getting 'No more PTY's' when starting up screen.. how to fix?
06:47<fxiny>looks like a 2.6.27 issue
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06:50<slept>hi I am experiencing a grave bug with X, but I am not sure what it is related to, so I don't know how to write a bug report.... The xserver suddenly tries to restart and than fails giving : Fatal server error: lockup . When trying to manually start it, it keeps failing. The only thing I can do is a reboot after which it works fine again. This happens quite often, it might be related to skype or pidgin. I didn't touch xorg.conf at all
06:50<slept>, i use the intel driver for an i945 card. How can I further track this down ?
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06:51<crazyb0y>slept: check Xorg.log
06:51<fxiny>Woet: google suggests checkig /dev/pty* permissions >> should be 666
06:51<slept>crazyb0y, I did - the "lockup " is from there
06:52<slept>I can paste the whole output ...
06:52<crazyb0y>slept: paste it to pastebin
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06:56<slept> ,its not the whole output tough
06:57<crazyb0y>kde 3.5 ?
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06:59<slept>gnome but i think the problem is realted to x itself - the intel driver - look at line 654 and round 800 ... strange thing is that I used lenny without these problems since its beginning , it just started after the fresh install...
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07:01<slept> might be easier to read I did a grep WW on the logfile
07:02<slept>and the only EE is : (EE) intel(0): Non-contiguous GTT entries: (6295552,0x167ffbe000) vs (131072,0x7f820000)
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07:03<Nemoder>944. Error in I830WaitLpRing(), timeout for 2 seconds
07:03<Nemoder>I would say def. a problem in the intel driver
07:03<Nemoder>or hardware
07:03<slept>that would be BAD, its a laptop :(
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07:07<Nemoder>reportbug xserver-xorg-video-i810
07:07<Nemoder>maybe somebody can forward it or help narrow down the problem
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07:15<ifvoid>giody: ?
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07:21<slept>Nemoder, ok i found the various bugs more or less reporting this behaviour ... the funny part is that they are quite old march, july - to me it started happening after a fresh install and this is strage since I used the other system on a regular basis , the install was from last year round december from than on I only did updates, so the software should be the same....but the problem never occured. Right now I am down to one or more
07:21<slept>of those unpleasant events a day
07:21<flowolf>hi all
07:21<flowolf>do you know anything about gnome 2.24 in debian sid?
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07:22<flowolf>it is still at 2.20
07:22<fxiny>slept: are you using a custom xorg.conf ?
07:22<slept>since this makes me lose unsaved data in applications and do a reboot to get x back the bug should be changed to grave, right ?
07:22<slept>fxiny, no
07:23<slept>fxiny, didn't touch it
07:23<craigevil>flowolf: 1:2.22.2~5, it is slowly working its way in, slower than normal because of Lenny being frozen
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07:24<slept>fxiny, would be the conf
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07:24<fxiny>slept: i know some screen are not detected so x won't start . could a custom conf solve your issue ?
07:25<slept>fxiny, no the screens get detected well . This seems to be a bigger issue
07:25<fxiny>slept: that's the default conf
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07:27<slept>is there a chance that process `skype' is using obsolete setsockopt SO_BSDCOMPAT is related to that ?
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07:28<fxiny>slept: any message if you just run : shutdown -h now when the thinbg happens , any process still running ?
07:29<slept>huh ?
07:30<slept>fxiny, when i do a shutdown the system shuts down... of course no process is running anymore
07:30<fxiny>look at the messages
07:30<slept>don't get the idea - what do you mean ?
07:31<slept>no it looks completely normal
07:31<slept>shuts down just fine
07:31<fxiny>x crashes , you run shutdown -h now and read messages
07:31<slept>yes , but things look fine
07:32<slept>nothing strange
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07:46<enouf>[16:06:30] >enouf< convert 187 cm to inches
07:46<enouf>[16:06:32] [dpkg] 187 cm is approximately 73.622 inches
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07:47<enouf>sorry, wrong channel :-p
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07:49<josilmathai>can anybody tell me how to restore sources.list
07:49<craigevil>josilmathai: edit /etc/apt/sources.list and put whatever sources you need
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07:51<craigevil>josilmathai: , only uses the sources for your release (stable/testing/sid)
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07:55<jackyf>hello all
07:56<jackyf>bash-completion doesn't complete any options for standard packages, such as apt-get or aptitude
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07:56<jackyf>so, what can be wrong?
07:57<jackyf>bash and bash-completion are up-to-date sid
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08:01<craigevil>jackyf: i dont even have bash-completion installed and hitting apt tab brings up other apt commands
08:02<jackyf>craigevil: sorry, i had discovered the problem
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08:02<jackyf>i had to turn manually this option in ~/.bashrc
08:03<jackyf>i guessed before that it has to be enable automatically after installing the package
08:03<jackyf>in /etc/bash.bashrc
08:03<jackyf>but it did not
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08:18<variable>what for are those special flags in properties of file?
08:19<variable>(set uesr ID set group ID sticky)
08:19<variable>!special flags
08:20<avu>variable, man chmod
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08:28<Wat>All the Guest|**** nick names are taken? Wat?
08:28<Gzmo> /join #Abjects
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08:30<Wat>How do I get cron to do scheduled tasks, now?
08:30<Wat>Say if they are set to do some hours/days away, and I wanted to do them now, instead.
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08:32<variable>i have some .swf file which doesn't work correctly. On windows i have tu run ff with administrator rights if i whant that .swf could work corrctly but here on etch i can see just part (the main window and some list which so nothing, where they sould) and if i run it on user mode but if i run ff with super user rights i cant see nothing at all
08:32<variable>what could it be?
08:33<fxiny>Wat: you mean cron : daily weekly monthly schedule ?
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08:33<fxiny>edit /etc/crontab
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08:42<rotciv>hello. i've just installed debian etch amd64 and i'm having some trouble with it...
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08:45<Wat>rotciv: what trouble?
08:46<rotciv>Wat, with my keyboard
08:46<fxiny>he was into football/soccer
08:46<rotciv>i'll paste it, sec
08:46<dpkg>Do not paste more than 3 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics. Use for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste!
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08:48<Suoredrum>I got the falling-back-to-standard-locale thing when I upgraded to Lenny; but I don't use Perl, so I probably cant be of much help.
08:48<rotciv>Suoredrum, please don't crush me, i'm just learning english, srry if the problem is too "newbie" :-S
08:48<Suoredrum>Don't be alarmed, I'm no genius either!
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08:49<rotciv>Suoredrum, alright
08:49<fxiny>rotciv: try : LC_ALL=C sudo dpkg-reconfigure locales
08:49<Suoredrum>I don't think I can help you; I'm sorry. D:
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08:49<rotciv>Suoredrum, it's okay, thank you anyway for your attention :)
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08:49<rotciv>fxiny, ok
08:50<rotciv>fxiny, yea it worked :D
08:50<rotciv>fxiny, thank you :)
08:51<fxiny>rotciv: np
08:52<rotciv>fxiny, that way it was configured for all the system? trying to uninstall a software in here now happened the same error :/
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08:55<fxiny>rotciv: that's just a perl warning , is not configured at all
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08:57<rotciv>fxiny, i tried to install Opera Browser by "dpkg -i" the error happened and the software wasn't installed
08:58<fxiny>rotciv: fix your loacels or run LC_ALL=C dpkg -i opera*.deb
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08:59<Lethalman>try reinstalling locales
08:59<Lethalman>and reconfiguring them
08:59<rotciv>Lethalman, how? apt-get install -y locales?
08:59<Lethalman>it's not such bad error
08:59<Lethalman>rotciv, aptitude reinstall locales
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08:59<Lethalman>rotciv, apt-get install --reinstall locales
08:59<Lethalman>then dpkg-reconfigure locales
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09:00<rotciv>Lethalman, alright, i'm doing it
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09:02<rotciv>Lethalman, you allow me to paste the feedback so you can see?
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09:03<Lethalman>rotciv, nopaste:
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09:06<rotciv>Lethalman, it was just distracted bro, i was selecting PT_PT when i was supposed to select PT_BR :-/
09:06<rotciv>Lethalman, thank you so much for you attention :P
09:06<rotciv>i was just distracted*
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09:09<Lethalman>does pt_BR:pt:en exists?
09:10<rotciv>Lethalman, no, it doesn't
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09:10<Lethalman>rotciv, didn't dpkg-reconfigure ask you for the default locale to use?
09:10<rotciv>Lethalman, i don't think so
09:11<Lethalman>rotciv, sudo dpkg-reconfigure -ph locales
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09:12<rotciv>Lethalman, this command showed me the same list dpkg-reconfigure locales did
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09:13<Lethalman>rotciv, ok continue
09:13<Lethalman>rotciv, at the end did you get the same warnings as before?
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09:16<rotciv>Lethalman, wait, i'll check...
09:17<rotciv>Lethalman, yea i didn't get the same warnings
09:17<Lethalman>rotciv, did you get any?
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09:18<rotciv>Lethalman, none
09:18<Lethalman>ok then
09:18<Lethalman>be happy
09:18<rotciv>Lethalman, thanks :)
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09:19<rotciv>btw, i was used to XFCE now i'm with Gnome, is there a way to modify Gnome's appearance? leave it like Fluxbox?
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09:21<michael__>not sure if someone already reported it, but email checks which is offline and just blocks _everything_
09:21-!-linac [~lin@] has joined #debian
09:21<michael__>so no mail is going through. please remove from your filter configuration
09:21<Lethalman>rotciv, system->preferences->appearance
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09:22<rotciv>Lethalman, thank you again :)
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09:22<abrotman>michael__: do you have a reject mail that says is using it?
09:22<michael__>abrotman: yes
09:22<rotciv>i'm leaving... thank you guys for helping
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09:23<dpkg>Do not paste more than 3 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics. Use for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste!
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09:23<abrotman>michael__: ^^^
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09:24<variable>i'm installing adobe flash player and there are asking to write ff installation path ;] but which installation path is correct?
09:24<michael__> is my sender address
09:24<variable>i have to write where is bin or somewhere else?
09:24<abrotman>michael__: uh .. date of that email ?
09:24<michael__>abrotman: just a few minutes ago
09:25<michael__>Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 15:05:12 +0200 (CEST)
09:25<abrotman>weasel: see above .. anything that can be done?
09:25<abrotman>(sorry .. not sure who else is active)
09:25<weasel>abrotman: I don't do "see above"
09:26<weasel>I also hate 'hunt the link'
09:26<abrotman>weasel: he said is using .. which is returning offline
09:26<michael__>weasel: while talking to 550-domain is listed in; see This list 550 is offline. Please stop querying for it.
09:26<weasel>haas is indeed using
09:27<weasel>(among other lists)
09:27<abrotman>but ti's not all of master?
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09:28<abrotman>weasel: sorry to bother
09:28-!-knoppix_ [] has quit []
09:28<michael__>how can i reach haas? anyone got another mail address of him?
09:29<weasel>removed it.
09:29<michael__>thank you
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09:32<michael__>weasel: sorry to bother again, but it still bounces with the same messasge
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09:33<weasel>it will need a few minutes to replicate.
09:33<client>can i ask a question about kweather options in here? Does it provide forecasts or only current conditions?
09:33<michael__>ah, i see
09:34<abrotman>client: i'd imagine you can right click on it and configure it
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09:41<variable>what for is fusectl
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10:04<enouf>for controlling FUSE?
10:04<dpkg>somebody said fuse was at, is Filesystem in USEerspace, enables you to mount various exotic filesystems, like <ntfs-3g>, samba workgroups, tar files, ftp sites etc. Fuse is packaged in debian and already included in recent 2.6.x kernels.. See
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10:14<amol>hi to all ,i am trying to download d-i but getting error as svn: Can't connect to host '': Connection refused
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10:20<amol>is there any problem in my network for getting error as svn: Can't connect to host '': Connection refused.??
10:20<amol>but i am to download packages from debian repository
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10:26<amol>#svn co svn:// debian-installer output of command...svn: Can't connect to host '': Connection refused
10:26<amol>anyone can tell me what is wrong in this command??/
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10:27<avu>amol, it's a problem on your end
10:27<avu>amol, (network-wise, the command is fine and the server is up and running)
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10:27<dgodfather1>Hi everyone, i am trying to vpn connect to a network. i succeeded before and now i can't. the vpn server is windows and is up and running, others succeeded in connecting,
10:28<dgodfather1>my user has been reseted by the admin
10:28<dgodfather1>i used the nm-applet with pptp-network-manager
10:28<amol>avu,i am able to download packages using apt..then what will be problem??
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10:28<dgodfather1>to connect before and it worked like charm and was very easy
10:28<avu>amol, how should I know?
10:29<avu>amol, all I can tell you that the command is fine and works for me, no idea what's broken on your end
10:29<avu>amol, maybe your ISP has problems or some network between your ISP's and the one the server is in, or you have a broken packet filter setup
10:29<dgodfather1>but now it doesn't succeed. i thought it's a good time to learn how to do it manually via configuring files, though i am very new to linux and didn't succeed following the tutorials i found on the net
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10:30<dgodfather1>not to mention it's all raw data, technicalities while i want to understand what i am doing
10:30<avu>dgodfather1, what kind of vpn?
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10:30<dgodfather1>avu: what do you mean? pptp ?
10:30<carlucio>bom dia.. estou tentando instalar o notebook com SATA SIS 1039:1185
10:30<dgodfather1>the gnome applet for pptp-network-manager?
10:30<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
10:30<avu>ah, no idea then, only used openvppn in recent years and ipsec before then
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10:31<Tuplad>How do I change the default output device from pcspkr to snd-usb-audio ? :}
10:31<Tuplad>Audio output device that is.
10:31<dgodfather1>can i use thouse to connect to peer to peer vpn on a windows server?
10:31<cahoot>Tuplad: tried asoundconf already?
10:31<crazyb0y>dgodfather1: what is the error when you are trying to connect ?
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10:31<Tuplad>cahoot: yes
10:32<Tuplad>cahoot: asoundconf set-default-card External works, but only for Exaile
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10:32<cahoot>Tuplad: what cards are listed in /proc/asound/cards?
10:32<Tuplad>cahoot: I dont have sound in flash(webbrowsers) and no sound in totem
10:33<dgodfather1>crazyb0y: could not start vpn connection due to a connection error :)
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10:33<dgodfather1>avu: can i ?
10:33<crazyb0y>dgodfather1: what do you use to connect to the vpn network ?
10:33<avu>dgodfather1, ?
10:33<avu>dgodfather1, openvpn and ipsec are different vpn technologies
10:33<dgodfather1>avu: can i use thouse to connect to peer to peer vpn on a windows server?
10:34<avu>dgodfather1, you can connect to an openvpn server using an openvpn client
10:34<dgodfather1>crazyb0y: i use the nm-applet pptp-network-namager
10:34<avu>dgodfather1, and you can only connect to a pptp server using a pptp client...
10:34<cahoot>Tuplad: why do you put pcskr into the discussion?
10:34<avu>dgodfather1, nothing to do with the OS used
10:34<dgodfather1>avu: well in that case it won't help me
10:34<avu>dgodfather1, which is what I said...
10:34<crazyb0y>dgodfather1: listen to avu, he is right
10:34<Tuplad>cahoot: because I had problems with pcspkr before, it'd somehow change my default sounddevice to pcspkr
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10:34<dgodfather1>avu: true, thanks for trying anyway
10:35<dgodfather1>crazyb0y: what about?
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10:35<cahoot>Tuplad: from alsas point of view you have only one sounddevice
10:35<dgodfather1>i mean he is right about what he is saying
10:35-!-ant- [] has joined #debian
10:35<dgodfather1>but it does not help me(like he said, he can't help me)
10:36<dgodfather1>crazyb0y: any idea how to fix this
10:36<avu>dgodfather1, well, have you asked google about how to connect to a pptp server uding debian?
10:36<dgodfather1>how to configure a connection threw files instead of gui tools?
10:36<crazyb0y>dgodfather1: you should know what is the type of the vpn network
10:36<dgodfather1>it's pptp
10:36<avu>dgodfather1, a quick search show's quite a few ready made howtos that explain exactly what you want to do
10:37<dgodfather1>avu: yep there is a lot of info technical one, but i didn't find anything to kind and explenatory
10:37<cahoot>Tuplad: you have checked if the root of your problem isn't the sounddevice is occupied ?
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10:38<enouf># snd_pcsp <- since 2.6.26 kernels
10:38<enouf>blacklist snd_pcsp
10:38<cahoot>Tuplad: like fuser -v /dev/snd/* /dev/dsp*
10:38<avu>dgodfather1, looks easy.
10:38<avu>dgodfather1, is even simpler
10:38<avu>dgodfather1, and that's only two examples from the fist few hits on google
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10:39<avu>dgodfather1, you'll get better help if you try to do it yourself and then come here with specific questions about some part of the process you don't understand than basically just asking for someone to guide you through the whole thing
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10:41<dpkg>pcspkr is, like, the device that makes an annoying BEEPing sound from within your computer (usually a piezo spkr, attached to the Motherboard). Add "blacklist pcspkr" to /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist to kill it -- and/or "blacklist snd_pcsp" since 2.6.26 kernels - ask me about <bell>
10:41<dgodfather1>avu: got you, 10x will be back with specific ques if i have some
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10:45<amol>avu,might be problem in my squid ?
10:45<avu>amol, not really, as the url used is a svn:// url, not http
10:45<avu>amol, but if your squid config is brokem that way, who knows
10:45-!-petern is now known as pnelson
10:46<enouf>>enouf< pcspkr is also Sometimes "alsamixer" will have/show a PC Speak[er] slider/option for controlling it as well.
10:46<enouf>[dpkg] okay, enouf
10:47<dpkg>Unless you mean 10 quarts, please spell it out: "thank you". IRC doesn't charge you by the character.
10:47-!-pnelson is now known as petern
10:47<avu>ah, I didn't even get what he meant by '10x' :)
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10:48<avu>I suspected that he suspected that he'll be back with questions at least 10 times
10:49<enouf>sounds about right :-P
10:49<petern>I still don't know which accent/dialect pronounces 10x as thanks...
10:49<amol>avu, is there any another way to download and build debian-installer?
10:50-!-davix [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
10:50<avu>amol, why do you want to build it yourself in the first place?
10:50<amol>avu,just to learn customization of d-i..
10:51<amol>avu,i did once long back,it worked..but now getting error..
10:52<avu>amol, well, as I said, it works for me. try ebugging your network or download it from another machine.
10:53<amol>avu,in my network i tried with other machine as well ..but got same error..
10:53<avu>then try a machine outside your network
10:53<avu>or actually debug the problem
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10:54<avu>try traceroute, see if you can reach the machine using other protocols like http, stop using a proxy, ..
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10:59-!-mode/#debian [+l 347] by debhelper
11:01<dgodfather1>avu: here are specific questions
11:02<dgodfather1>what is the pty entry in the /etc/ppp/peers/filename file i write?
11:02<avu>how is that a proper question?
11:02<dgodfather1>avu: sorry just saw it has a man page
11:03<avu>!tell dgodfather1 about smart questions
11:03<dgodfather1>if the domain i belong to is on a windows machine(it's a windows domain) do i add that domain name to my file?
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11:04<dgodfather1>i did everything explain it doesn't work. accept i didn't mention the domain name cause i didn't need to before when it worked.
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11:04<dgodfather1>let me paste my output for ifconfig
11:05-!-ao2 [~u@2001:1418:117::1] has joined #debian
11:05<clint1986>if it's a lot
11:05<clint1986>use pastebin
11:05<dgodfather1>avu: well no real need for a paste there is no recollection of the new ppp connection
11:06<dgodfather1>clint1986: yes i know
11:06<clint1986>groovy :)
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11:07<avu>dgodfather1, really, read that thingy about smart questions. or at least describe the error you are getting
11:07<avu>I see no error there
11:07<dgodfather1>avu, i am trying give me a sec i promise i will do my best
11:07<dgodfather1>well there is no recollection of the newly created connection
11:08<dgodfather1>as if nothing was made
11:08<dgodfather1>i will paste my files content
11:08<avu>and don't just leave stuff out in the configuration just because you think that you should not need it (the domain, in that case)
11:08<clint1986>i still don't understand your problem though
11:08<avu>yeah, me neithher, just guessing around here
11:09<avu>quickly losing any motivation to keep trying to help :)
11:11<dgodfather1>avu, well i left it out because my company didn't get back to me yet with answer
11:11<avu>dgodfather1, I still don't see an error or kknow what your problem is
11:11<dgodfather1>well also the gui nm-applet doesn't work when it used to
11:12<dgodfather1>i have no specific error message or anything
11:12<avu>!doesn't work
11:12<dpkg>Look buddy, "doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message".
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11:12<dgodfather1>dmesg will help?
11:12<avu>look thorugh the logfiles
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11:12<clint1986>dgodfather1: we really need to know the core issue
11:12<clint1986>dgodfather1: the specific thing that is broken and what is broken about it
11:13<dgodfather1>clint1986: avu: trust me it's not my intention to make your work impossible, it's just i don't know where to get info from,
11:13<clint1986>dgodfather1: for example, "cups doesn't work and responds with error xyx when i try to print over my network"
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11:13<dgodfather1>i am new and trying to learn to live and love linux
11:13<avu>!tell dgodfather1 about grounding
11:13<avu>!tell dgodfather1 about smart questions
11:13<clint1986>we want to help you
11:13<dgodfather1>i don't get any specific error message
11:13<clint1986>but we don't know what is wrong
11:14<clint1986>what is broken? the network connection?
11:14<clint1986>you simply can't connect?
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11:17<rotciv>how do i install the driver for intel g31 onboard GPU on debian etch? =X
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11:18<dgodfather1>clint1986: sorry clint read some of the pages represented by avu
11:18<dgodfather1>yes i simply can't connect
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11:20<enouf>rotciv: not sure you'll get full support for it - you might want to upgrade to lenny since a newer Xorg wants a new libc6 which means lenny - but i'm not certain
11:21<enouf>rotciv: another possible option is an etchnhalf .24 kernel, or a .26 one - though i doubt that would do it
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11:22<dgodfather1>clint1986: sent me links to
11:22<rotciv>enouf, mmm... so the only way to get it working is upgrade to lenny?
11:23<enouf>rotciv: again, i'm not certain - sorry
11:23<dgodfather1>i tail -f /var/log/debug and no good info was generated there
11:23<dgodfather1>OK i will quit for now
11:23<enouf>rotciv: try asking in #debian-x here, or #debian on
11:23<dgodfather1>will return less tired and will crack this thing
11:23<rotciv>enouf, alright :D thank you
11:24<dgodfather1>10x anyway for whom ever tried to help
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11:24<enouf>rotciv: i think that chipset is just too new for Etch 's Xorg
11:24<rotciv>enouf, yup that's what i thought
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11:28<XY>hmmm, i have a intresting issue, when i enter runlevel 2, x does its init thing, it sets the graphic mode, i see the usual backgroud pattern but then it just seems to crash and goes into a infiite loop, any good places to look for issues???
11:29<XY>i forgot to mention the hourglass icon appears just before it goes into infinity and beyond mode :)
11:30<petemc>check the xorg log
11:31<XY>nothing there, except some errors that have been there all along to do with opengl or something
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11:32<XY>can't run shell, i need to get out of single-user land
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11:34<ayahuasca1979>hi, i have a problem with lenny in a dell inspiron n1525 when i plug the headphones the volume go down, someone knows what happen?
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11:36<ofirg_>I try to understand what is a debian release. Is it the whole bundle of software packages?
11:36-!-ofirg_ is now known as torr
11:37<torr>And if so, why isn't there a base that include linux OS stuff, and the packages versions are user selected?
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11:38<petemc>there is
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11:39<Tuplad>Anyone knows how to fix my sound ? Mplayer and totem and other players except Exaile and amaroK wont play sound, flash in browser wont play sound either...
11:39<Tuplad>Nothing works, asoundconf set-default-card External doesn't work either
11:39<Tuplad>the module I use for sound is snd-usb-audio.
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11:44<Tuplad>Anyone ?
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11:46<|JackYF|>Tuplad: have you tried "alsaconf" ?
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11:46<Tuplad>|JackYF|: yes, but it doesnt detect my soundcard. I have an external usb soundcard by Creative
11:47<|JackYF|>Tuplad: version of debian? try to install newer alsa/kernel?
11:47<Tuplad>|JackYF|: I had this problem before and someone helped me fixing it, it all came down to my system not using my sounddevice by default. So then we went to some modprobe file to change snd-usb-audio=0 instead of -2.
11:47<Tuplad>|JackYF|: debian lenny
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11:47<|JackYF|>Tuplad: so, grep it and change again?
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11:48<Tuplad>|JackYF|: the settings are still the same in etc /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base, but I have no sound
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11:49<XY>hmm, intresting note about my x start up issues, if i issue startx from root acct, x starts fine, but for some reason it fails when init from runlevel 2 scripts
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11:51<Tuplad>how do I reload all modules with modprobe?
11:51<XY>i am under the impression the problem is not with x itself but something else like gdm, yet my /var/log files show me nothing unusual
11:52<overflow>Hi, what are debian/*.install for ?
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11:53<overflow>Hi, what are debian/*.install files for ?
11:53<fxiny>XY: is it just happening ?
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11:54<dmoerner>overflow, to specify what files to install where when dh_install is called in debian/rules
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11:55<dmoerner>overflow, it's most often used when installing non-compiled scripts or files, or when the upstream's makefile has a broken or nonexistent install target
11:55<overflow>like install command in debian/rules..
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11:55<overflow>dmoerner: thanks
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12:15<AzaTht>which packages whould I install to support most printers?
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12:16<|JackYF|>AzaTht: foomatic-*, probably
12:16<dmoerner>cups and its recommends, along with hplip, hpijs, foomatic-*
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12:30<noflash>GVR, if you have a debian related question, just ask it
12:31<GVR>when it leaves the live-compact disc debian?
12:31<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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13:00<stuckey>Hello. Could anyone here tell me how to get my wireless connection's bitrate above 1MB/s?
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13:06<kd_kd>Anyone having problems with phonon-backend-xine in KDE4.1?
13:06<|JackYF|>kd_kd: I :)
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13:07<kd_kd>|JackYF|: gstreamer output also doesn't seem to work
13:07<kd_kd>|JackYF|: whole phonon is dead lol
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13:07<|JackYF|>kd_kd: just experimental, what you want :)
13:08<kd_kd>|JackYF|: I guess it's problem with version compatibility, xine backend is one minor version behind
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13:10<variable>how tu run an app with super user rights
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13:10<kd_kd>sudo app
13:10<variable>if i write su app?
13:11<|JackYF|>su -c "app"
13:11<variable>what is different there?
13:11<variable>i mean sudo and su?
13:11<|JackYF|>variable: man sudo, man su
13:11<|JackYF|>just different approaches
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13:12<fxiny>sudo won't ask for su password
13:12<kd_kd>fxiny: if it's configured not to ask
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13:12<fxiny>kd_kd: i do not use sudo ;)
13:13<variable>i have problem with swf files
13:13<variable>fxiny, me too ;]
13:13<variable>i use su
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13:13<fxiny>variable: you asked what sudo is , so you're wrong : you should use sudo :)
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13:14<variable>does any of you had problem with .swf files?
13:15<fxiny>atrope/flash must die
13:15<kd_kd>and the problem is...?
13:15<variable>like it doesn't do what it has to do
13:15<kd_kd>fxiny: take it back. If Adobe/Flash dies we have only MS/Silverlight, that will never come to linux so we have no dynamic web pages
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13:16<variable>i have cisco tutorial which is in flash and when i select chapter it do nothing
13:16<kd_kd>variable: the non-free flash from adobe always worked for me...
13:17<variable>yes i have it to
13:17<fxiny>kd_kd: i don't take it back . MS is already dead : corporations are not switching to vista , wall street banks crooks are hiding figures like MS does
13:18<fxiny>but the focus is on banks not on MS
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13:18<kd_kd>fxiny: no lol. The strongest software companies are those that controll development kits and platforms. MS will be fine for a long time as far as people will write for DirectX or VB
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13:19<fxiny>kd_kd: MS is fine cause the rulers are keeping people into ignorance
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13:20<variable>could it be that it canot open those chapters because of some previlegies or some permissions?
13:21<variable>because it loads main page but those buttons don't work
13:21<fxiny>kd_kd: if we erase freesoftware form this planet nothing is left : who shares knowledge , the wall street crooks ? MS ? same face of the same coin
13:22<kd_kd>variable: perhaps your swf needs a newer version of flash then you have. I'd try it on different OS to confirm what's going on. Maybe it's simply broken and need to be redownloaded
13:22<variable>no i don't think so, i have latest flash
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13:23<daemon>hey all I want to see how difficult it would be to break into my ap's (two diffrent ones, one with WEP the other WPA) I know they both can be broken I just want to see how long it would take, is it Kismet I should use to do this? or something else?
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13:23<variable>and it same and on windows
13:23<variable>but is i run that flash with administrator's rights in windows it works
13:24<kd_kd>variable: so why not to try changing the privilages
13:25<variable>hmm same and with super user ;/
13:26<kd_kd>fxiny: freesoftware is not so big you know. It's just a bunch of apps and os'. As far as there is ISO, ANSI and IEEE to standarize formats there is no big difference if free software is around or no
13:26<variable>i don't like to work with administrator rights on windows ;/
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13:28<carlucio>download iso lenny??
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13:29<carlucio>mirror iso lenny??
13:29<abrotman> .. get a daily
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13:31<AleXXandEr>i have problem, i can't install lenny testing(netinstall), because it can't find cdrom
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13:32<fxiny>kd_kd: being a user i see a big difference : freesoftware is the attitude that pushes a developper coding and sharing .
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13:32<AleXXandEr>i installed etch4.0r0 on this system, but it can't find cdrom too. but i found solution, i writed option generic.all_generic_ide. but with lenny it doesn't work
13:33<fxiny>from a user point of view this is the only logic explanation i can find
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13:35<carlucio>I am thankful abrotman
13:35<Destroyer661>hi, does anyone know how I could fix a Floating Point Exception?
13:35<Destroyer661>i'm getting it with a few programs, running unstable, amd 64
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13:37<carlucio>in lenny 1139 device 1185 has modulates it for hd sata vendor SiS??
13:38<carlucio>or in lenny if or hd sata SIS vendor 1139 and device 1185 ??
13:38<carlucio>has modulates??
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13:39<abrotman>doesn't look like it
13:39<abrotman>!which driver
13:39<dpkg>rumour has it, driver locator is To work out what module you need to load for your pci card, try pasting lspci -n into
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13:42<Destroyer661>please I need help with floating point exceptions
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13:48<Destroyer661>ahhh, does anyone know how I could fix a Floating Point Exception?
13:49<Gathond>afaik stop doing illegal floating point math
13:49<Destroyer661>how do i tell a program to stop doing that lol
13:49<Gathond>although I'm not entirely sure whether that one pops up for other reasons than than
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13:49<Gathond>but I'm pretty sure things like divide by 0.0 results in those
13:50<Gathond>although defective floating point hardware might also do so
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13:51<Destroyer661>that doesn't really help me though
13:51<Gathond>not unless you have the source code and the ability to debug it
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13:52<Destroyer661>well i did an ltrace of inkscape, it failed to run due to floating point
13:52<Destroyer661>iceweasel won't run either
13:54<Gathond>sounds like either a shared library or the hardware
13:54<Destroyer661>i think my hardware is fine
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13:55<Gathond>probably, I would look into the library thing first
13:55<Gathond>do they happen to crash in the same library?
13:56<rutski>Destroyer661: you're consistently getting FPEs in seemingly unrelated programs, so it's either some library that's screwing up; or you're FPU/SSE is hardware is broken.
13:56<Destroyer661>well i'm on a laptop, do i actually have FPU hardware?
13:57<rutski>Destroyer661: this isn't the 70's anymore, so yea, you do
13:57<Destroyer661>lol well i meant like, could something seriously just break inside my laptop?
13:57<Gathond>Destroyer661: any intel cpu since the 486 has an FPU
13:58<Gathond>well the 486 also had, in some models
13:58<Destroyer661>like suddenly the FPU just breaks O_o
13:58<Gathond>Destroyer661: of cause
13:58<Destroyer661>or is it more likely a library problem
13:58<Gathond>if any of the millions of transistors get shorted out or gets too warm at one point
13:59<Gathond>the library thing is more likely though
13:59<Gathond>do they crash the same place in ltrace?
13:59<Destroyer661>i'll have a look, give me a minute
14:00<Destroyer661>ltrace: Can't open ELF file "/usr/bin/iceweasel"
14:00<Destroyer661>iceweasel doesn't want to work O_o
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14:01<Destroyer661>here, take a look
14:01<Gathond>well /usr/bin/iceweasel is not an ELF binary is it?
14:02<Destroyer661>i don't know what ELF is, sorry
14:02<kdas>if i am connected to the net via eth0 and connected to a network via my Wireless nic how do i tell debian to connect to net via eth0 and still stay connected to the wireless network ?
14:02<kdas>Destroyer661, ELF = EXE but for linux
14:03<Gathond>Destroyer661: and iceweasel is a shell script that launches an ELF file
14:03<Gathond>I don't know ltrace, but it might require an actual ELF file to run initially
14:03<Destroyer661>hm okay
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14:04<kdas>Destroyer661, are you trying to get iceweasel to run on lenny ?
14:04<Gathond>Destroyer661: try strace instead
14:04<Gathond>or better, gdb
14:05<Gathond>although GDB requires some more knowledge to actually be usefull
14:05<hollo>nåeh.. hjem med mig..
14:06<Gathond>hollo: wrong language:)
14:06<hollo>Ganneff, hmm. yeh.. saw your name.. thought i was in aalborg :p
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14:06<hollo>Gathond, hmm.. wops for you :)
14:06<hollo>Gathond, there are too many people in here.. cannot find out it like that..
14:07<Destroyer661>yeah i don't know how to use gdb
14:07<Destroyer661>theres the strace output
14:07<Destroyer661>seems to loop the same thing for aw hile
14:07<kdas>Destroyer661, i would not recommend you to run unstable if you don't know what ELF is i mean i am a newb myself and testing is pushing the limits ;)
14:08<Gathond>Destroyer661: you could also try modifying the last line in /usr/lib/iceweasel/iceweasel to add /usr/bin/ltrace before the ${MOZ_PROGRAM}
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14:09<kdas>if i am connected to the net via eth0 and connected to a network via my Wireless nic how do i tell debian to connect to net via eth0 and still stay connected to the wireless network ?
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14:09<Halitech>hello everyone, looking for some advice. I'm a user of that "brown" distro and I've recently installed Debian Etch on a laptop (P3 600) and I really like the way it responds for a lower end machine. I'm wondering about changing my main system over from Ubuntu to Debian but I'm wondering about using my current /home partition with a new install (yes I have things backed up but would be easier if I didn't have to restore everything). what does
14:09<Halitech>everyone think?
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14:12<kdas>Halitech, ... backup your data and install debian and then restore ;)
14:12<dmoerner>Halitech, i would install take the ubuntu home, mv ~/.* to a directory on it, install debian, cp ~/.* from debian to the ubuntu /home, mount the ubuntu /home, make sure everything works, and then selectively copy over your settings from the old ubuntu dotfiles
14:12<Destroyer661>they do seem to be crashing at the same point
14:12<Gathond>Destroyer661: what is this point?
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14:13<Destroyer661>read(3, 0x1075864, 4096) = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable)
14:13<Destroyer661>--- SIGFPE (Floating point exception) @ 0 (0) ---
14:13<Destroyer661>that's where both end
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14:13<Destroyer661>different numbers both times though, in the brackets
14:13<Destroyer661>same 4096
14:14<Gathond>can you paste som more of the history before that in a pastebin
14:14<fxiny>Halitech: shouldn't be any problems . dunno how ubuntu sets home permissions , you can move all home dot files and dirr i a tarball . install and in case of trouble just add a new user later
14:14<Gathond>I cant really see what reading fd 3 has to do with doing floating point operations though
14:14<Halitech>dmoerner - I have an external drive, are you suggesting I move my /home to it, install Debian then move it back?
14:15<Destroyer661>the first one is iceweasel
14:15<Destroyer661>that one is inkscape
14:15<petern>Not just floating point ops cause SIGFPE :)
14:15<Gathond>I doubt the read returning -1 has anything to do with the end
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14:15<petern>/0 will do it.
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14:16<Destroyer661>i don't understand though, both of these programs worked earlier today
14:16<Destroyer661>then, suddenly they stopped
14:16<kdas>Halitech, what i think dmoerner is trying to say is that you install debian on separate partition and then mount your ubuntu one and move your config files one at a time to insure stability
14:16<Gathond>Destroyer661: and you have done nothing in the way of upgrading anything?
14:16<kdas>can some one help me with my networking problem?
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14:16<Destroyer661>i did an upgrade yesterday, didn't think anything important upgraded
14:16<Destroyer661>is there a way i can tell what were the last packages upgraded?
14:17<Gathond>petern: are you sure /0 also does it if it is not a floating point number you divide?
14:17<Gathond>1.0/0 IS a floating point operation in the end, I don't beleieve 1/0 is
14:17<Halitech>ok, I have a seperate /home partition (with a fair bit of stuff in it) formated in ext3, you don't think using that would be a good idea?
14:18<Gathond>Destroyer661: not unless you stored it somewhere
14:18<petern>i.c:3: warning: division by zero
14:18<petern>$ ./i
14:18<petern>Floating point exception
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14:18<petern>that's just 1/0
14:18<kdas>Halitech, my personal advise is take what files you want back them up aka your home dir and then wipe ubuntu install fresh debian and then config it to your liking and then put back your files that you like (no thte config files)
14:19<Gathond>ok, I would have expected that be done without the FPU, then again, it might be more efficient to use it and just discard the fraction part
14:19<petern>it is done without the FPU
14:19<fxiny>Halitech: whatever ubuntu does to home dot files and dirs you can always add a new debian user and move your data from the old user to the new
14:19<Halitech>kdas so basically just the files that are shown in normal view that I've created or saved
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14:20<kdas>how do i choose to use eth0 to connect to the net rather then my wlan0 but still be connected to wlan ?
14:20<Destroyer661>the only place i find the word divide in the traces is: read(26, "key> <KP_Divide> <O> \t: \"\307\276\" U0"..., 4096) = 4096
14:20<kdas>Halitech, you should make clear to me exactly you want to do
14:20<Destroyer661>or division
14:20<Gathond>Destroyer661: I think you have to go either gdb or ltrace and then modify the iceweasel shellscript
14:21<kdas>Halitech, to my understanding you have some random created files in your home dir and you want to install debain and keep those files
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14:21<petern>Destroyer661, straces only trace syscalls, not all operations
14:21<Destroyer661>ah ok
14:21<petern>er, s in the wrong place :)
14:21<Destroyer661>how would i use gdb?
14:21<Halitech>fxiny not too worried about the config files as I know most of the programs will be different versions then what Ubuntu has so config files probably won't work properly
14:21<XY>i have a intresting problem with x, it keeps crashing on loading via runlevel 2, however when i run it using startx it runs fine in runlevel 1 (as root), xorg.0.log has no new errors and is no different from the log file that was generated before this problem started, i have reconfigured xserver-xorg as a troubleshooting step and am getting nowhere, i suspect the problem lies with the configuration for my normal user (vs root) but i dont know where, x windows starts
14:22<Halitech>kdas yes, I have a fair collection of video and music files and other things I want to keep when I change over to true debian
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14:23<XY>i have also reinstalled gdm to no effect whatsoever
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14:23<kdas>Halitech, if that is your only worry and you would like to reconfig things, which i recommend, then just grab your files stick them on some external drive and do a fresh install of debian
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14:23<fxiny>Halitech: or you can install using your spare partition as home . then edit fstab
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14:24<fxiny>Halitech: this is the safest way
14:24<Halitech>kdas yeah, kinda what I was thinking I'd have to do as the best choice but wanted to bounce the idea off a few others first
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14:24<XY>does gdm depend on any thing like inetd for the graphical login ?
14:24<fxiny>Halitech: do you have a spare partition ?
14:25<kdas>Halitech, yea thats what i would do, it also gives you a feel for debian because you will reconfig it ;)
14:25<fxiny>use that as a new debian home . then edit ftsab to point to the ubu one
14:25<kdas>fxiny, why would he want to install debian on another partition if he wants to switch to it ?
14:25<fxiny>kdas: because is afraid or deleting files
14:26<XY>kdas, probably so that any config files are safely on your old install
14:26<kdas>Halitech, you don't know were your files are ?
14:26<Destroyer661>Gathond: does this do anything for you:
14:26<Destroyer661>or petern
14:26<Halitech>fxiny the external is in NTFS right now so don't think that would work for using for my /home folder ... I might have enough room in / to create / and a new /home (currently 56gig and only 11gig used)
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14:26<Destroyer661>that's what gdb gave me from running /usr/bin/inkscape
14:27<kdas>XY, help me with my networking problem
14:27<Halitech>kdas I know where the files are, just trying to minimize moving files around if I can
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14:27<XY>kdas, i need a description to eval whether or not i can help you fix it ,
14:27<Gathond>Destroyer661: yes, it seems that function in that library crashed, try reinstalling it
14:27<Gathond>I think it is part of libgtk2, but dpkg can probably tell you that
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14:28<XY>it is my personal belief that #debian is designed to teach you to fix your own problems, not have the channel fix them for you
14:28<kdas>XY, i have net on eth0 and network on wlan0 how do i make sure debain don't try to connect to net via wlan0 ?
14:28<Destroyer661>ok, cool
14:28<fxiny>Halitech: if you can't back up your ubuntu partiton use a small home partition as home for example shrinking swap
14:28<Halitech>kdas I think I've got a good feel for setting it up, I've done 2 systems from scratch and they are working fine
14:28<XY>kdas: intresting, well, my first question is what is on wlan0 that you are trying to access?
14:29<Halitech>fxiny not a matter of can't, matter of being lazy ;)
14:29<kdas>Halitech, well i mean if you don't want to move your files arround at all you could hackup ubuntu and switch the sources.list file to point to debian and then try to convert your ubuntu distro to debian
14:29<XY>kdas: your issue may be sloved with the route command but thats just my first impression
14:29<kdas>Halitech, i got faith in you ;)
14:29<Halitech>kdas I could see that resulting in things going boom ~L~
14:29<fxiny>kdas: wrong
14:30<kdas>XY, well on wlan0 is a router which connects me to other people
14:30<fxiny>can't do that
14:30<kdas>Halitech, haha, yep but i am just saying if you are 31337 and don't want to move files arround
14:30<kdas>fxiny, you technically can
14:30<fxiny>no no no
14:31<fxiny>why doing this ?
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14:31<kdas>fxiny, headache yes but you can do that if you want to
14:31<XY>kdas: are these people on ip addresses that are part of the private address ranges within the usual ip address specification
14:31<Halitech>kdas 1337 is one thing I don't pretend to be ~L~
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14:32<kdas>XY, when i connect to the router (wlan0) it assigns me a IP 192.168.1.X so everyone else is on same private network
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14:32<kdas>Halitech, haha, well then you will actually have to cp your files
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14:32<Halitech>I just want a working system with as little fuss as possible, yes I enjoy playing around and breaking things so I can fix them but thats why I have an old system so my main system stays running
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14:33<kdas>Halitech, i have firm faith you will pull it off, and not just that but enjoy it to ;)
14:33<Halitech>anyone got an idea how long it will take to move 50gigs of stuff from an internal drive to a USB drive?
14:34<kdas>Halitech, if it is usb 2 then should not take that long
14:34<XY>kdas: my memory is a little foggy at the moment on the private address ranges, but with route, you should be able to specify that any attempts to access any thing on the 192.168.1.x will be directed to wlan0 unless of course thats where your ip addresses are coming from via dhcp when you are trying to access the net
14:34<Lethalman>Halitech, look for the bitrate
14:34<Halitech>kdas I know I can and I will and from what I've seen on my laptop and an old tecra 550cdt, I know it will run better then ubuntu does
14:34<XY>kdas: is your internet access via static or dynamic ranges ???
14:35<XY>kdas: i mean ip addresses sorry
14:35<kdas>XY, net addy is dynamic
14:35<kdas>XY, is that a problem ?
14:35<Halitech>kdas I think its usb2 but not sure about the hub I have it plugged into
14:35<XY>what do the ip addresses start with when you get your address via DHCP
14:35<fxiny>Halitech: the easiest way is to leave your ubuntu home untouched , install pointing to a spare small partition as home and editing fstab later
14:35<Halitech>Lethalman ummmmm okay
14:36<kdas>Halitech, well if it is usb legacy you will be there all day it took me 2-3 hrs to copy 1.4gbs on legacy
14:36<kdas>XY, i think they change each time?
14:37<XY>right, but usually the start of the ip address (at least the first number is the same, what is that number 10, 192 ??? )
14:37<Halitech>fxiny I may do that, isn't there an option to use custom partitioning and to tell debian to either not use a partition or give it a custom name?
14:37<kdas>XY, i think 67
14:37<Halitech>kdas I believe you, I've moved 1gig files to it before it took about 45 minute
14:37<fxiny>Halitech: yes , the debian isntaller is smart enough not to destroy your existing data
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14:38<fxiny>Halitech: but if you are afraid just do as i told you
14:38<kdas>fxiny, but if he does that won't he have all the clog of his ubuntu install ?
14:38<XY>right , so the route command will fix your issue i believe!, its been a while since i used anything like this but you need to add a entry to your routing table that says that anything going to your 192.168.1.x subnet will be routed to wlan0, anything else goes to the net and you are done!
14:38<fxiny>Halitech: i once lost 13 R.E.M cd deleting a partition by mistake . i know what i'm talking about
14:39<Destroyer661>Gathond: i'm trying to uninstall libgtk2 and it's not working
14:39<kdas>XY, thanks, one more thing if i wanted to turn my wlan0 into master mode and share the net connection i would use forwarding ?
14:39<fxiny>kdas: who cares about ubuntu ? he'll add a new debian user
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14:39<Destroyer661>it's telling me it wants to install new packages
14:40<Gathond>Destroyer661: just reinstall it, I'm not sure Im right though, as the file you mention are not on my machine at all
14:40<kdas>fxiny, his ubuntu home dir is on his ubuntu partition so if he leaves that he has a huge partition of his files + ubuntu
14:40<XY>kdas: hmmm, well that is probably going to involve messing with the kernel
14:40<kdas>XY, really ?
14:40<fxiny>kdas: is like if you are installing debian over say fetora . just add a new user , move data and fix permissions . this way you have not to think about dot files
14:40<Destroyer661>it won't let me, too many dependency problems
14:40<XY>kdas: this is based on the assumption that you are requiring linux to do the fowarding for you
14:41<kdas>XY, its not easy like windows were you just say i want to share my connection from eth0 with wlan0 ?
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14:41<fxiny>kdas: all users are in the same partition
14:41<Destroyer661>i try to remove it and it yells about a bunch of programs needing it
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14:41<Halitech>fxiny I know, I've lost things as well so I know how important it is to select the right partition ... right now I have the following setup /boot - 500meg /home 90gig / 60gig swap 1gig
14:41<kdas>fxiny, so install debian over ubuntu you are saying ?
14:42<XY>well, easy no, i believe the central idea is security here, something that still gets neglected in the windows world so that users can get their machines to do what they want easily while opening up their machines to all sorts of havoc..1
14:42<Gathond>Destroyer661: use aptitude /or apt-get to reinstall it, not remove it then install it
14:42<kdas>Halitech, oh well in that case what fxiny is saying is the best
14:43<kdas>Halitech, i was under the impression you had you partitions setup as / 140gb 1gb swap
14:43<fxiny>Halitech: if your data are important just use a spare partition , you have none ? : use swap
14:43<Gathond>Destroyer661: but ask dpkg what package it is first, I very much doubt that file is in libgtk2, since it is not installed at all on this machine
14:43<XY>kdas: these linux kernels are used on all sorts of machines that serve mission-critical applications on the net, your typical windows machine isnt ...!
14:43<kdas>XY, true
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14:43<Destroyer661>how do i ask dpkg which package it is?
14:43<fxiny>Halitech: but remember : debian installer knows how to do things properly
14:44<Halitech>so if I take / and break it down to / 20gig /home 40gig swap 1gig and ignore the current /home wouldn't I be able to mount my current /home as a storage folder inside home when I get finished installing?
14:44<Gathond>Destroyer661: dpkg -S filename
14:45<fxiny>Halitech: just 200M for a temp home . install and then edit fstab
14:45<kdas>Halitech, i would kill all your partitions except your /home one because thats were all your files are and then install debian on new freespace and then edit fstab so that the old ubuntu /home dir is your debians one ;)
14:45<Halitech>kdas heck no, I learned the second I had a system crash to set /home away from /
14:45<Destroyer661>righto, it's inside gtk-qt-engine-kde4
14:45<XY>kdas: i hate to say this, but i am going to have to be frankfully honest, you seem somewhat new to linux, getting linux to go bing and do your things is going to require a lot of manual configuration (well manual is a vague term) but at the end of the day you end up with a lot more flexibilty and security at the same time without neglecting either
14:45<Gathond>then reinstall that one
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14:46<Destroyer661>still giving me the error :(
14:46<fxiny>Halitech: this is fstab : /dev/hdb4 /home ext3 defaults 0 2
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14:46<kdas>XY, i guess, last time i check to share a connection with linux is a just some simple forwarding
14:46<fxiny>Halitech: now , i install a new debian with hdb5 as home . right ?
14:46<Gathond>Destroyer661: can you remove it? withouth removing a lot of other stuff?
14:46<Destroyer661>it's stand alone
14:47<fxiny>Halitech: new fstab will be /dev/hdb5 /home
14:47<XY>kdas: i have to get back to my problem, but should you have your networking knowledge up to par for your needs, the route command will fix your issue, just add it to your startup files , and your traffic will be routed accordiany (xcuse me speeling) :)
14:47<fxiny>Halitech: you ediut it like before : /dev/hdb4 and boot
14:47<Halitech>fxiny same except it shows as /dev/sda4 for me
14:47<kdas>XY, no prob, and thanks ;)
14:47<fxiny>Halitech: you got the idea
14:47<fxiny>Halitech: this way your data are absolutely safe
14:48<XY>kdas: my problem does not seem to have any error messages, its a little frustating
14:48*kdas agrees with fxiny
14:48<kdas>XY, what problem is this ?
14:48<fxiny>Halitech: when installing switch to manual partitioning mode
14:49<Halitech>fxiny ok, will work it out a little more on paper so when the time comes I'm not trying to remember what I was supposed to do with the partitions
14:49<XY>kdas: i cant leave runlevel 1 , when i try and use runlevel 2, x just starts crashing , yet all log files appear identical form the xwindows standpoint
14:49<fxiny>Halitech: read your fstab now
14:49<Halitech>fxiny I always do a manual
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14:49<XY>kdas: yet when i start x windows via startx at runlevel 1 as root, it inits just fine
14:49<kdas>XY, did you try changing runlevels with out havin X running ?
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14:50<fxiny>so no porbs : welcome to debian :)
14:50<Destroyer661>i think i'm going to have to downgrade that package Gathond
14:50<kdas>Halitech, debian you will find all kinds of friendly people
14:50<Halitech>fxiny thats one thing I've hated about the last 2 versions of ubuntu, the fstab is a bear to read with the UUID in there
14:50<Destroyer661>i'll try and get a bug report in, thanks for all your help!
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14:50<kdas>Halitech, in fact you will find us so helpful that we sometimes fight one another to find the best solution for you
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14:51<Gathond>Destroyer661: where exactly have you got that package from? I can't find it on my unstable machine
14:51<Destroyer661>it's in experimental
14:51<Halitech>kdas I've seen that, except towards those running Ubuntu and want to stay there ;)
14:51<Destroyer661>i'm running kde 4.1.2, and it must have updated
14:51<Destroyer661>but i don't see how, this page says it was updated back in may
14:51<XY>kdas: i could, but the main problem is i am trying to fix this crashing issue as i need a gui for distracting multimedia enteratiment, in others words something that plays a mp3 stream with a eq ( i know of 0 text based mp3 players that can read mp3 streams , play them and have a 10-band eq, it doesnt exist
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14:52<XY>kdas: life is a little difficult lately, i dont have the option of going to a quiet room at just being able to work on my studies (linux stuff)
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14:52<kdas>Halitech, i tryed ubuntu for like 3 hrs and i went back to debian because 1, the people did not know crap except a few who never talked 2. it was all to confusing like what you said bout fstab and 3. debian is just so sexy
14:52<fxiny>Gathond: i like playing with partitions , i have a box with 2 etch . one lenny in progress and one etch full encrypted , my / are 4G maximum so i0m used to share home
14:52<fxiny>Gathond: tab completion
14:53<Gathond>fxiny: happy to know that:)
14:53<fxiny>Halitech : i like playing with partitions , i have a box with 2 etch . one lenny in progress and one etch full encrypted , my / are 4G maximum so i0m used to share home
14:53<fxiny>Gathond: hehehe
14:53<XY>kdas: later, i hope you get your issue solved, no one here seems brave enough to suffer the agony that is what is involved in sloving this problem
14:53<kdas>XY, so your saying you don't want to switch to runlevel 2 because you don't want to loose X?
14:53<XY>kdas: 1 min
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14:54<kdas>XY, i am suggesting that you try to shutdown your xserver switch to runlevel 2 and then try startx again
14:54<Halitech>kdas well, I I've been using it for almost 3 years and I agree, a few of them over there have a clue but I've seen most of them take a problem and confuse the person asking the question so bad that they end up going back to MS
14:55<kdas>Halitech, hahha yep, well welcome to the beautiful clean sexy world of debian were everything makes sense
14:55<XY>kdas: no, i could probably just rename the script that starts gdm (which i believe starts x) , and start runlevel 2 that way but i want x as it has applications that require it, as it seems no one has had the time or the passion to make a winamp like music player that runs in text mode!
14:55<kdas>Halitech, it took me 20mins to connect to my friends router haha but its all good
14:55<XY>kdas: intresting .....
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14:56<fxiny>kdas: your friends router ? hahahaahah
14:56<kdas>XY, there is mplayer ;)
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14:56<XY>i wonder what the difference between the way that startx is running x and gdm .
14:56<Halitech>kdas the main reason why I've decided to change over to true Debian is because of the performance I've seen on old laptops that people over there would be saying put DSL or Puppy on and I've put Debian and XFCE on them and they run fine (for what they are)
14:56<XY>kdas: i dont remember mplayer having a eq.
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14:57<kdas>XY, do this: killall gdm/Xfree86 then switch runlevel and then go start gdm again
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14:57<kdas>XY, alsamixer and mplayer has everything!
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14:58<kdas>Halitech, i my self am sporting a asus f9sg t8100 with 3gb ram but i run openbox and lxpanel haha
14:58<XY>shall do, but since i am in runlevel 1 i have to go . alsamixer only has 2 bands of eq (on some cards) , mplayer (well i have never seen a interface for a eq in any linux distros, applications etc that use it .
14:59<kdas>XY, trust me console has everything! i had an argument with this console geek before and dude had programs and answers for everything
14:59<Halitech>kdas my main system is a P4 1.8 (some crappy mb) with 896meg of ram and my compaq armada laptop (P3 600 with 196meg of ram) and Debian with XFCE runs better on it then Ubuntu 7.04 does on my desktop
15:00<kdas>XY, definitely try to kill all your xserver/gdm and then switch to runlevel2 and type gdm in console to get X back up and see if that gives you errors
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15:00<abrotman>there's no need to change run levels
15:00<kdas>Halitech, well of course haha
15:00<XY>kdas: well, the day i find that media player, i look again at mplayer, i have to use x less often , i have never liked x but on the other hand, it still beats dealing with winblows.
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15:00<fxiny>Halitech: PII 400 running fluxbox and wmii here
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15:01<_fang>hello! what is a transitional package?
15:01<kdas>XY, or a quick apt search should do it ;)
15:01<XY>kdas: thanks, must go
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15:01<kdas>abrotman, there is no need to switch runlevels ? why not ?
15:01<abrotman>_fang: it's something the put so that when the package gets upgraded .. it actually installs a new package
15:01<abrotman>kdas: why would there be?
15:01<Halitech>kdas I think I'll swap my cases around though, I have one sitting in the closet with 4 usb ports where this one only has 2 before I start moving files around so the transfer to the external goes faster
15:01<Destroyer661>thanks so much for the help
15:01<kdas>abrotman, hes on runlevel 1 and crashing on runlevel 2 when he uses X
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15:01<Halitech>fxiny could never get the hang of setting up flux
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15:02<fxiny>Halitech: is easy
15:02<fxiny>very easy
15:02<abrotman>kdas: from what you just suggested .. he's already in runlevel2
15:02<kdas>Halitech, openbox is the way ;)
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15:03<_fang>abrotman: okay! thanks! because there's a package that's transitional in etch (python-twisted) that is failing to download with apt-get, it says that the package does not exist, altough in i can find it! i guess there's nothign to do, right?
15:03<kdas>abrotman, no hes in runlevel 1 i told him to kill X and switch to runlevel 2 and then start X rather then doing that with x running
15:03<abrotman>still doesn't make sense
15:03<abrotman>_fang: do an aptitude update first
15:03<Halitech>fxiny probably is but I'm more of a visual person, I have to see it working before I can figure out exactly how to configure it
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15:03<kdas>abrotman, he just wanted to know why when he switches runlevel X crashes
15:03<Halitech>kdas I've kinda grown attached to XFCE myself
15:04<abrotman>still doesn't make sense
15:04<kdas>Halitech, XFCE is cool
15:04<kdas>abrotman, haha ok i am sorry
15:04<Halitech>kdas I wish I had a screenshot of the tecra desktop with XFCE on it, has a prety sweet desktop as far as I'm concerned
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15:05<Halitech>thanks for the advice guys/girls but I should take off for a bite, got kids here yelling they are hungry for supper so better go feed them before they try to eat the computer ~L~
15:06<_fang>abrotman: still couldn't do it! but anyway! i'll download it from the website! thanks!!!
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15:06<Halitech>kdas and xfiny thanks for the advice and you'll probably see me back later
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15:13<XY>kdas: heh , i renamed the gdm startup script for runlevel 2, the x server (started with startx) is just sitting there, and theres a message about the something waiting for the x server to start accepting connections
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15:14<mihkel>Hi, I have somewhat n00bie question. I have postfix installed, but every evening when I turn off my computer
15:14<mihkel>something like: Oct 4 00:13:25 debian postfix/postfix-script[6605]: fatal: the Postfix mail system is not running
15:14<mihkel>appears in mail.* files
15:15<Gathond>something probably tries sending mail during the shutdown after postfix has been stopped
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15:16<mihkel>every evening?
15:16<Gathond>probably happens as part of the shutdown process
15:16<mihkel>what could it be...
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15:16<Gathond>dunno, why bother, iirc the mail should be delivered anyway later
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15:17<Gathond>it might also simply be the shutdown process of postfix that results in that log entry
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15:32<TJ>Hi, I've not used debian for a little while though have done a large amount of tinkering in the past. I've got a problem with an external hard disk - wondered if someone might be able to help! :)
15:33<TJ>It's a Welland Greenstar, and it spins down after 5 minutes to save power. It's attached to a NSLU2 running etch.
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15:33<abrotman>this is bad?
15:33<TJ>that's the point
15:34<TJ>but I'm having some problems with mounting it
15:34<amphi>could you be more vague? ;)
15:34<TJ>I've tried mounting it via device, uuid (though that didn't work becuase it's VFAT formatted), by label
15:34<TJ>sorry - bear with me :)
15:35<TJ>so if I mount it say /dev/sda1 to /media/greenstar
15:35<TJ>that's fine so long as it's active
15:35<TJ>but when it spins down, /media/greenstar doesn't contain anything
15:35<TJ>to get it to spin-up again it needs to be unmounted
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15:36<TJ>and remounted
15:36<amphi>if it's spun down, attempting to access it doesn't make it spin up? that's what happens with my usb disk
15:36<TJ>right - that's what should happen logically
15:36<TJ>but it's actually a bit more perverse than that
15:36<petern>sounds like it's really shutting down, heh
15:36<abrotman>they go to sleep
15:36<TJ>because when it spins up, it attaches it sself to /dev/sdc1, or d1, or e1
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15:38<TJ>so the hdd enclosure really does seem to switch off power to the drive
15:38<TJ>hence I was trying to mount it by label
15:38<XY>intresting when i startx from runlevel2 , it just sits there waiting for connections,
15:39<XY>this is after renaming the gdm startup script in rc2.d to a name where it wont be executed .
15:39<XY>its what i expected to a point....
15:39<XY>if anyone has any sugguestions, msg me , i am config hell
15:39<TJ>or uuid... anyone know then what's happening under the bonnet when this disk goes into this 'shut-down' mode? can I get udev to unmount it?
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15:40<TJ>and then remount it when the /media/greenstar directory is accessed?
15:40<amphi>does sdparm work for usb disks? if so, you could prevent the spin down perhaps
15:40<TJ>sdparm does work for some
15:40<TJ>but this is a hardware shutdown
15:40<TJ>which is of course intended
15:41<TJ>becuase it's a media drive that's seldome used
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15:41<TJ>and it's attached to this linksys nslu2 (which runs debian very nicely!)
15:42<drone77>TJ I remember that seagate FreeAgents had a similar problem, maybe that could help on google?
15:42<XY>tj: well a really crappy fix would be to prevent the drive from spinning down via a cron job, but thats just a quick fix, just access it every few minutes.
15:42<TJ>so the idea is that the 'slug' is always on, and when the drive is required, it spins up, then when not used for a while back down again - Mrs is happy and the kids can sleep, and I have a good carbon-footprint conscience
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15:44<XY>tj: ha ha, i see, its one of those really loud hard drives, i have had one of those, the ones that sound like a woodpecker with a lot of work to do when the hard drive is placed in a enclosure that amplifies the already noisy drive, fun ...
15:45<TJ>he he - yeah, well it's in the hall you see - it's not that loud, but you know - little nippers - any excuse to wake up!
15:45<TJ>drone77 - I'm looking in to your sugestion... thanks
15:46<TJ>XY - yeah, though the idea is that the disk does spin down when not required!
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15:46<TJ>if only I could get a 1TB 2.5" drive
15:47<XY>tj: if only flash drives were all MLC so we could (and cheaper) so we could replace these mechanical beasts :)
15:48<TJ>yeah - too true! I guess in 10 years!
15:48<TJ>hey this is interesting - kernel parm to allow the drive to be restarted
15:48<TJ> echo 1 >/sys/block/sda/device/allow_restart
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15:50<XY>tj: i doubt that mlc based flash drives are going to become the standard, theres too much many to be made selling big slc based drives to the consumers without advising them that they are only good for about 1000 writes per flash block.... such is the way of the electronics industry in general.
15:50<XY>tj: too much money i meant sorry for my typing .
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16:14<chealer>I have 2 laptops with 3 network interfaces each, including eth0, an Ethernet card, and wlan0, a 802.11 card that can connect to my router, which broadcasts the SSID which doesn't use encryption. I installed using daily d-i on both machines and both can use eth0 when the Ethernet is plugged, but none will automatically connect via wireless when Ethernet is unplugged/not plugged. both machines can connect with wireless by simply setting the
16:14<chealer>essid and running dhclient. is this normal? if not, is this a known issue?
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16:15<chealer>I did not modify the default /etc/network/interfaces. it sets eth0 as auto and dhcp and has no information about wlan0
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16:17<chealer>uh, of course these machines use network-manager.
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16:18<chealer>this is a "default install", with all default tasks and no package removed. this happens without touching to n-m configuration, so the checkbox for enabling the wireless connection is checked.
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16:28<Dowland>Hello. Help!! I don't know what I did yesterday (update? stinky command?) but now, when I boot I get "Failed to initialize HAL" and I can't access my USB storage, nor can I burn discs, nor can I read audio discs.
16:28<Dowland>I Googled around, and for some, this is a kernel problem, but I haven't update the kernel in ages ...
16:29<Dowland>(Precision: Sound Juicer can't play audio discs; but MPlayer can, but it's choppy, so I'm assuming that the digital access is not available or something.)
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16:31<Lethalman>hello my friend has a diamondmax 21 hard drive and etch installer doesn't recognize it
16:31<Lethalman>any hints? I couldn't find anything on internet
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16:31<Lethalman>he says it's PATA
16:32<chealer>Lethalman: look at Linux's support for the ATA controller instead
16:32<Lethalman>chealer, ah ok
16:32<chealer>Linux 2.6.18 if you want to stick with normal etch
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16:34<enouf>Lethalman: etchnhalf
16:34<Lethalman>chealer, do you mean
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16:34<Lethalman>enouf, do you know it's working with it?
16:34<enouf>Lethalman: that's a good site, might be dated - and that's sata info
16:34<Lethalman>couldn't find any diamondmax there :S
16:35<enouf>Lethalman: likely, depends, it's a .24 kernel avail
16:35<enouf>Lethalman: stop with the diamondmax nonsense
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16:35<Lethalman>enouf, I'm asking I'm sorry eh
16:35<enouf>HDDs use ATA controllers and chipsets as mentioned (usually on the motherboard)
16:35<Lethalman>I know nothing about hardware
16:36<Lethalman>so what should I look for?
16:36<enouf>Lethalman: IOW, HDD make/model doesn't matter - PATA/SATA might
16:36<enouf>SCSI, etc, interface
16:36<Lethalman>enouf, ok I'm bad with such words too :)
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16:36<enouf>just try the etchnhalf installer
16:36<Lethalman>enouf, lspci in debian-installer gaining a command line?
16:37<enouf>hrm, not sure if busybox has it .. boot a livecd
16:38<enouf>Lethalman: is more up to date site about all this, but a PATA Controller that's not recognized usually means a 3rd party Chipset like MArvell, or ULi, or Sil, or something
16:38<enouf>Lethalman: heck, even newer Intel Chipsets, some which don't even support PATA anymore
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16:39<Lethalman>and... what can I do to use those drivers?
16:39<enouf>they are in the kernel images that debian distrubutes, as modules
16:39<enouf>2.6.18 is just older
16:40<enouf>so if the Chipset wasn't out then - guess what?
16:40<dpkg>"etch + 1/2" -- an update to Debian's stable release "etch" designed to provide support for newer hardware. It includes a 2.6.24 kernel along with an updated installer. Release notes: Installation instructions: See also or <etchnhalf facts>
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16:40<Lethalman>do you think using lenny beta is better maybe?
16:40<enouf>etchnhalf uses the lenny beta installer
16:40<enouf>Lenny though has a .26 kernel
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16:41<enouf>etchnhalf a .24, but a .26 is avail at
16:41<enouf>Lethalman: if it's a desktop, go for lenny - IMHO
16:41<enouf>Lethalman: i mean, like not a mission-critical server
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16:42<Lethalman>there're no full CD for etch1/2
16:42<enouf>go - do
16:42<dpkg>from memory, lenny is the codename for the next Debian release, currently testing. To upgrade to lenny, ask me about <etch->lenny>. Lenny is the binoculars. Lenny will be known as version 5.0 and it will hopefully be released soon (ask me about <wwlr>). A <moving target>. See also <testing> and <lenny status>.
16:42<dpkg>4.0r4 etch is now the "Stable" debian release (April 8, 2007) see for images. Sarge is still available at Developers page is .. If you want to make custom install cds, start with d-i. IRC: #debian-boot. Also ask about <errata>.
16:42<enouf>see the last URL there
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16:43<chealer>Lethalman: I didn't mean any resource in particular. that page is about SATA. which chipset is used?
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16:43<Lethalman>chealer, I really don't know
16:43<chealer>busybox doesn't have lspci
16:44<enouf>thought not
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16:44<enouf>but dmesg will have info perhaps, depending ... but well, just boot a livecd
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16:50<chealer>Lethalman: do you know anything about the motherboard?
16:51<Lethalman>chealer, absolutely not
16:51<Lethalman>it's a friend of my friend lol
16:51<Lethalman>which never used linux and almost didn't know if his processor was 32-bit or 64-bit
16:52<Lethalman>and has no live cd
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16:54<chealer>Lethalman: lenny may be better, considering that what you tried didn't work at all
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16:56<crazyb0y>how can i enable the hotkeys Ctrl+Alt+F* and Ctrl+Alt+Backspace in xorg.conf ?
16:57<crazyb0y>i have already commented: Option "DontZap" "yes" Option "DontVTSwitch" "yes"
16:57<crazyb0y>but it's still not working
16:57<Lethalman>chealer, yes he's downloading lenny
16:57<Lethalman>thanks everyone
16:58<simonrvn>crazyb0y: the defaults are to allow those if not set in xorg.conf
16:58-!-nike [] has joined #debian
16:58<crazyb0y>simonrvn: i'm not using the default xorg.conf
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16:58<crazyb0y>but i deleted these two options in ServerFlags
16:58<crazyb0y>and still not working
16:58<simonrvn>did you restart x afterwards?
16:59<crazyb0y>simonrvn: hehe yes, many times =)
16:59<crazyb0y>wanna see my xorg.conf ?
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16:59<simonrvn>no; uncomment, and set them to False
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16:59<crazyb0y>to False or to "No"
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17:01<crazyb0y>still not working
17:01<crazyb0y>i restarted gdm
17:01<XY>heh crazyboy u having gdm issues...
17:02<XY>heh ... me too ... my files can be accessed.... speaking of what should the permissions and owner be for gdm.conf
17:02<XY>\i cant type worth anything today
17:02<simonrvn>restarting gdm won't necessarily Do The Right Thing, make sure X is stopped.
17:03<crazyb0y>simonrvn: X is stopped when i stop gdm
17:03<XY>crazyboy: does your system go into a infinite restarting loop (with x doing the restarting)
17:03<XY>crazyboy: what does your /home/user/.Xsession thing say
17:04<crazyb0y>XY: when i stop the gdm there is no X started
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17:05<crazyb0y>take a look, X is not running when i stop the gdm
17:05<XY>hmmmm .... so if thought i would be a clever semi-evolved monkey and tired installing slim instead (which i used on a previous install ) only to find out that slim requires updated versions only available with lenny... i dont wish to upgrade to that on this install :(
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17:06<crazyb0y>this is my xorg.conf
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17:07<enouf>crazyb0y: telinit 1; followed by telinit 2
17:07<muddd>there are many like it but this one is mine
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17:08<crazyb0y>enouf: ok done
17:08<crazyb0y>let me check now
17:08<crazyb0y>nop again, not working =(
17:08<crazyb0y>i'm logged in with super user, if if does matter
17:09<enouf>crazyb0y: did you mess with your /etc/inittab? are you using Etch or Lenny? and you want ctrl-alt-fn to drop to console, yes?
17:09<XY>crazyboy: post your /home/user/.xsession-errors file (it may help)
17:09<enouf>yeah, that too
17:09<crazyb0y>i'm using testing for first time i'm using X, i've been using debian for many years on server, its my first time trying to use on a desktop (laptop) pc with X
17:10<crazyb0y>i've never make changes to the inittab
17:10<enouf>but ctrl-alt-backspace restarts X in a non-nice way, afaik
17:10<simonrvn>crazyb0y: don't run x as root
17:10<crazyb0y>and yes i want to ctrl+alt+F* to drop me into a console
17:10<crazyb0y>simonrvn: i want it =)
17:10<enouf>crazyb0y: and it doens't?
17:10<crazyb0y>enouf: yes it doesn't work
17:10<enouf>crazyb0y: no X as root
17:10<simonrvn>crazyb0y: i said, don't run x as root
17:10<crazyb0y>enouf: i need it and i want it to run it as root
17:10<simonrvn>not "don't run x"
17:11<enouf>no you don't
17:11<XY>crazyb0y: i know you have explained it once. in short what is the nature of your issue
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17:11<simonrvn>no you don't, that's a stupid idea
17:11<crazyb0y>is it the problem ?
17:11<crazyb0y>for my issue ?
17:12<enouf>crazyb0y: when you did telinit 2 , gdm didn't come up?
17:12<crazyb0y>nop it's here
17:12<crazyb0y>and i logged in the gnome again with root
17:12<simonrvn>well, it seems you're in runlevel 1, which is sort of a problem...
17:12<enouf>wait, what? and how?
17:12<crazyb0y>/etc/init.d/gdm is started
17:12<crazyb0y>i did telinit 1
17:12<crazyb0y>after that i did a telinit 2
17:13<crazyb0y>and gdm started again
17:13<enouf>right, and?
17:13<crazyb0y>and i logged into my gnome again with root
17:13<XY>crazyb0y: running x as root is a bad idea, its a huge peice of software with lots of potential security issues, you should never run nice big software programs as root if you can avoid it.
17:13<enouf>how as root?
17:13<crazyb0y>XY: don't worry =) thanks anyway
17:13<enouf>you're not running X only as root - but ALL OF GNOME! ;-P
17:13<crazyb0y>ok i will check it with normaluser
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17:14<enouf>crazyb0y: how do you login as root from gdm?
17:14<amphi>enouf: WHAT YOU SAY?
17:14<XY>speaking of: what should be my owner and permissions on my .gdmconf file
17:14<enouf>amphi: shh .. hunting wabbits :-P
17:14<crazyb0y>enouf: gdm is starting my gnome
17:14<ranix>amphi: take off every zig
17:14<crazyb0y>in the login settings i enabled super user login
17:14<crazyb0y>and it works =)
17:15<ranix>why do you want to log into X with super user privileges
17:15<enouf>that's likely launching gksu
17:15<simonrvn>XY: i'd check but i'm booted to fbsd not debian g/l
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17:15<enouf>and you do not need/want to
17:15<crazyb0y>ranix: because it's too easy to manage everything without doing everytime sudo or su ot typing a password
17:15<enouf>XY: i don;t use gdm
17:16<ranix>crazyb0y: you should not need superuser privileges for any gui event
17:16<simonrvn>crazyb0y: that's a dumb, lazy reason, IMO
17:16<enouf>crazyb0y: learn how to setup sudo for your users, and how to add yourself/user to appropriate groups such as 'adm' and others
17:16<crazyb0y>enouf: i know how
17:16<enouf>crazyb0y: also how to add PATHs to your user's PATH
17:16<crazyb0y>its my laptop and there's no problems acting as root
17:17<enouf>no you don't
17:17<XY>my .xsession file for my regular user is telling me it can not locate a ton of files that are there, i of course already know about groups,owners,permissions etc but i dont want to increase my chances of a worst off system, which is intresting becuase i never modified the permissions of the files in the first place. i am unknown what did
17:17<ranix>crazyb0y: assholes like you are the reason botnets are hammering my email server
17:18<crazyb0y>ranix: i'm an technical director of a big isp in my country and i[m administrating many servers with Linux-grsecurity/openbsd
17:18<crazyb0y>don't worry about it =)
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17:18<XY>ranix: question, how many botnets are unix-based????? ( i am curious and unenlighted)
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17:18<crazyb0y>this is a laptop at home, with a VPN setup and wireless
17:18<enouf>crazyb0y: so... you;re an MSCE?
17:18<crazyb0y>with internal ip
17:18<simonrvn>XY: many are rooted *nix boxen, many are rooted windows boxen
17:18<XY>anybody here got the correct permissions for gdm.conf
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17:19<crazyb0y>noone has access, i'm using it only for multimedia =)
17:19<simonrvn>XY: i'd set it 640 root:root
17:19<crazyb0y>ok this is not the problem
17:19<enouf>XY: if it's in /etc/ then likely root:root
17:19<ranix>XY: "typing my password or typing sudo is too hard" is not an excuse for not using security. It's THE reason Windows variants until Vista are insecure, and enabling some semblance of actual security the prime reason Vista failed
17:19<crazyb0y>the problem is why i can't switch to console after pressing ctrl+alt+F*
17:19<simonrvn>crazyb0y: you have network connection, it can be accessed
17:19<enouf>640 sounds right
17:19<XY>simonrvn: thats intresting ... i didnt think that there would be that many unix based botnets are the total market share excluding mac os x is like 1%
17:19<crazyb0y>simonrvn: it's with internal IP's like 192.168.0.X
17:19<crazyb0y>how it can be accessed, tell me =)
17:20<simonrvn>crazyb0y: your point?
17:20<ranix>because everybody, including driver developers, whines and complains "waah that's too hard"
17:20<ranix>buck up and type sudo vim
17:20<ranix>it's not that goddamn hard
17:21<crazyb0y>simonrvn: don't worry about it, sorry for annoying yourself =)
17:21<simonrvn>aaah peace
17:21<crazyb0y>i just wanted to see what is X and is it good for my laptop =)
17:21<crazyb0y>i'm using linux for 7-8 years, and never tried the userfriendly part of it like X, or something =)
17:22*phorce1 just keeps a root xterm open on a separate desktop from the aps/xterms running as user. Click to that desktop, root what he needs to, click away from that desktop
17:22<XY>ranix: i agree with you in many ways, i am seeking knowledge from those who are in the know with actual experience vs reading web sites and repeating things, i call these the digg effect (like dude my iphone is essentialy a mac) i heard this on a bus the other day.
17:22<crazyb0y>and i'm connecting through a VPN
17:22<enouf>ranix: Vista failed because it sucks (compared to even the former XPoop variant, which had the same amount of "available" security as Vista) and imposes more DRM than ever
17:22<simonrvn>good habits are better
17:23<crazyb0y>simonrvn: sure i agree with you, but be sure, no one can access my laptop =)
17:23<enouf>ranix: but i could care less about any of mpoop's offerings
17:23<crazyb0y>all the ports are closed remotely, and no one has access to my home@VPN network =)
17:23<ranix>enouf: I will have a conversation with you sometime on the offtopic channel about why I don't think vista actually sucks, and there are a lot of reasons the instability is the fault of driver developers who are too lazy to deal with vista's new security model
17:24<crazyb0y>i just want to use ctrl+alt+F* to jump to a console
17:24<crazyb0y>is it possible ?
17:24<XY>i am done with mpoop, i use it as little as possible, i have great luck, anytime i sit down with a machine running windows, i am usually annoyed within 10 minutes with some stupid issue of other.
17:24<TJ_>drone77: Thanks mate - that Seagate Freeagent idea worked!!
17:30<XY>tj: ya sloved your spindown issue????
17:30<drone77>TJ_: sweet hope your kids get to sleep now =]
17:30<TJ_>yeah - seems to work
17:30<XY>tj: nice
17:30<simonrvn><ot>even running winxp in virtualbox i get this underlying annoyance current, making me more irritable than usual</ot>
17:30<ranix>I use linux and windows side by side every day at work, because there are some things you just can't do on one or the other
17:30-!-themill_ is now known as themill
17:30<TJ_>so thanks for that - kids sleep + mrs is happy
17:30-!-Lethalman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:30<enouf>sdparm --command=stop :-P
17:30<drone77>TJ_: np
17:30<enouf>ranix: that's ok - you may have much inside info that i can't even be bothered with - it's cool
17:30<phorce1>TJ_: retrain the kids <grin>
17:30<ranix>enouf: I just am chagrinned that the FUD has come 180 degrees and Microsoft or/and closed source in general is/are suddenly the root of all evil, with hardware and driver developers not even a remote afterthought
17:30<phorce1>TJ_: When mine were young enough to worry about their sleep habits we could walk in, pick them up, stick them in the car, go to grandma's, and confuse the heck out of them when they woke up somewhere different than where they went to sleep.
17:30<enouf>please don't PM me .. sigh
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17:31<XY>i need to figure out what user the file that is reporting to the .xsession file is , and what that file is. and why it is responding that why... i went ahead and removed a bunch of software that is installed with a stock debian install, exim4, inetd etc because its just unneccessary in my case, and somewhere along the way something completely twisted my x config files! i can only run x as root
17:31<TJ_>phorce1: ha ha, yes that sounds like fun - must try that
17:31<simonrvn>um, wtf did you remove your mta?
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17:32<XY>simonrvn: why do i need my mail transfer agent, i dont do email anymore, i am sick of it, i am done for as long as possible, too much spam, too much hassle.
17:32<XY>besides i did not have it on my old install and x worked just fine
17:33<XY>i killed it there too, its just a possible security issue
17:33<XY>with things *just* happening, i dont need to encourage them to happen more
17:33<simonrvn>your system needs it...
17:34-!-miksuh [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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17:34<simonrvn>that's a side issue though, you shouldn't have to run x as root (and shouldn't). i'd run aptitude to make sure you didn't break something (which it seems you did anyway)
17:35<XY>simonrvn: i know its used for some reporting.... but why the hell do i want a piece of software that can recieve spam on my system, it makes no sense to me to leave it there, theres these things called text files that are a lot simpler and safer then sending messages via a email protocol
17:35<XY>simonrvn: yeah, i was using aptitude, also dpkg as well, so i could investigate dependiences , etc ...
17:35<simonrvn>um, you send to a smarthost, and not make it listen on a publically accessible interface...
17:36<ranix>XY: by default exim is configured to only send and receive for localhost
17:37<XY>simonrvn: why do i want to send anything to a "smarthost". at the end of the day unless i am trying to recieve error messages remotely, the requirement to have a mta installed for error/status reports is imho a little overboard
17:37<ranix>XY: also, exim4-daemon-light is the one that comes preinstalled, with a footprint similar to sendmail or other tiny mtas
17:37-!-Bravewolf [~wolf@] has joined #debian
17:37<simonrvn>whine whine bitch whine
17:38<simonrvn>nullmailer, ssmtp, whatthefuckever
17:38*XY whines and remeberes that re-installing exim4-daemon-light is not going to fix my x issue
17:38<simonrvn>explorer your options instead of doing dumb things
17:38<simonrvn>yes, that's why i said it's a side issue
17:38-!-Bravewolf [~wolf@] has quit []
17:38<drone77>out of interest what is the difference in disk usage of not selecting anything with tasksel and selecting 'standard system'?
17:38<drone77>on install
17:39<simonrvn>standard required stuff gets installed regardless, so that wouldn't doing anything
17:39-!-dannys_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:39<ranix>drone77: 'standard system' installs some random stuff
17:40<XY>simonrvn: imho running unneccsary software is a dumb thing.... i dont want or need a mta, i also dont want inetd installed by default either. thats great if i am running multiple services to the web but i dont need it, why have it sitting there taking up memory, cache, hd space etc.
17:40<simonrvn>like less, and a few other nice doodads
17:40<ranix>drone77: I think it's a legacy decision from when linux was new
17:40<simonrvn>inetd i agree with you, the mta is where i disagree
17:40<ranix>drone77: "new users won't know they can get less", etc.
17:40<themill>XY: how about you rewrite unix so that it doesn't assume that the system can deliver mail then?
17:41<drone77>ranix: ok thanks
17:41<ranix>XY might be an amazingly effective troll because he's pressing all my rage buttons
17:41<XY>themill: amusing..... but i would rather not have exim4 that rewrite a entire os. its a simple configuration issue
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17:42<simonrvn>inetd in older times was also needed, not so much anymore, most people don't use those services anymore (and don't even know how).
17:42-!-pieta [] has left #debian []
17:42<ranix>simonrvn: I remember back in my first Potato install, I didn't know the difference between 'internet superserver' and 'value menu'
17:43<simonrvn>XY: this isn't windows, and exim4-daemon-light or one of the other mtas i mentioned are just as lightweight, so your argument about using disk cache, etc. is a straw dog argument.
17:43<simonrvn>straw man, dog whatever that term is
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17:44<themill>XY: can you have another go at that last sentence but in English? I have no idea what you mean by that.
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17:44<simonrvn>ranix: i did, but didn't know what internet superserver was until i saw what it did. luckily for me i discovered mc early on, hehe
17:45<XY>themill: yeah, my typing is really bad, its better when i can use x and not have to listen to crappy music in cafes :)
17:45-!-libereco [~libereco@] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
17:46<ranix>XY: short answer to your problem, "Reinstall your MTA and everything else you may have randomly removed without understanding"
17:46<XY>at the end of the day, i dont wish to run a mta, or anything else . i believe it was a sugguestion for anacron not a dependency...
17:46<drone77>or reinstall x
17:46<ranix>XY: you do not take your water pump out of your car because "I don't need a car that pumps water" so don't randomly uninstall exim4 because "I don't need a computer that sends email"
17:46<simonrvn>it's required for cron
17:47<themill>!why an mta
17:47<dpkg>An MTA should be on most unix(ish) systems to provide a way for various services to deliver asynchronous system or error messages. This includes things like cron and at (to give you the output of jobs) and various daemons (e.g. the init script of mysql). The mta does not have to listen to network ports so spam and security issues are largely irrelevant. Ask me about <nullmailer>.
17:47<XY>ranix: ok, well maybe reinstalling x will slove the issue but that is a dumb thing to do becuase i am trying to learn stuff not apply one line fixes that do 2000 different things to x number of files .....
17:48<themill>XY: learn to use apt rather than being a tard and randomly breaking things
17:48<ranix>XY: man foo is a better way to learn than apt-get remove -purge foo
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17:49<simonrvn>!lart XY
17:49*dpkg chops XY in half with a free AOL CD
17:49<XY>at the moment, for a reason unbeknowst to me, (it worked fine last time, x windows does not work, ) if i going to get in the habit of applying one-line fixes with tons of modifications to files i might as well go back to windows full-time, i rather become a amish person or become a monk or something
17:49<dpkg>X Windows is NOT the name of it. It's simply called X, X11, the X Window System, etc. Do a "man X" for more. < Zxcvb> X + KDE/Gnome + Codeweavers Wine == X-windows, or ask me about x windows trap
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17:50<XY>x windows is a generic name for X or what ever you want to call it,
17:50<simonrvn>it is not
17:50<ranix>insert "<racist slur> is a generic name for <race>" here
17:51<enouf>XY: at even uses/requires it, iinm - also, just disable any services not needed
17:51<drone77>XY: well it's a smarter idea than what you are doing at the moment (arguing on IRC) which appears to be getting you nowhere
17:51<XY>ok , well (x windows) is my name for it , i need to fix a problem, not rant on about what x or y is called. i am trying to communicate and slove a issue
17:52<ranix>I dub thee troll, and remove myself from this conversation
17:52<XY>ah yeh... at with its empty directorys
17:52<themill>XY: well you're failing at communicating. When you actually want to know how to solve your problem, let us know. At present, you seem to just be trolling.
17:52<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, plonk is the sound that a name makes when hitting the ignore list or or killfile. Plonk is British and Canadian slang for cheap wine. "Rodney, you plonker."
17:52<ranix>What we have here is a failure to communicate
17:52<simonrvn></quote> heh
17:52<enouf>"Houston? we have a problem"
17:53*drone77 goes to play the song
17:53<ranix>XY: come back after you eat 26 eggs
17:53*stevecotton is amazed that the anti-MTA conversation has got this far without a link to the MS "how to uninstall Linux" KB article
17:53<ranix>stevecotton: omg link me
17:54-!-magellanino [~magellani@] has joined #debian
17:54<ranix>stevecotton: nevermind, found it.
17:54*simonrvn clicks
17:55<XY>the reason we are arguing is i am wasting typing time while others want to go "oh you dont know ****", becuase i have removed a piece of software i do not need, i dont used at on this system, i wont , i dont need a lot of stuff on this system, its a old clunker and being a smart-a**e is not going to slove my problem with x.
17:55<XY>speaking of debian is the only distro i seen that installs exim4 by default....
17:55<enouf>XY: try reinstalling "xorg" metapkg
17:56<stevecotton>to uninstall Linux, install Ranix instead. He/She will sit in your computer like a unix-like OS with, and has preinstalled with force-feedback.
17:56<XY>not that i ranking on it. but some people just dont want exim4 and other peieces of software
17:56<ranix>XY: other distributions use postfix or sendmail
17:56-!-bef0rd [~befr0d@] has joined #debian
17:56<ranix>XY: debian derivitaves, of which there are hojillions (ubuntu, etc) also tend to use exim4-daemon-light
17:56<XY>well i switched to debian as i was tried of ubunutu, ......
17:57<enouf>XY: i'm only trying to offer sensible suggests b/c i hate seeing people gang up on others - it's called bullying, and only fucken punks do it
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17:57<themill>XY: no, you have removed pieces of software that your system does need. You want things installed that depend on other bits. Go find a dictionary and look up what "dependency" means. As a result, apt will refuse to do anything until you make it happy again. So if you want to do anything with it ever again, make it happy and satisfy dependencies.
17:58-!-arash [~arash@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:58<enouf>XY: once you learn the in/outs, you can make it so it's not installed - even something like equivs would do
17:58<XY>enouf: maybe i wasnt paying close attention to my process list, i dont care right, now i have had 2 installs work just fine without any mta. its because i dont need to do a lot of things that are automated, etc.......
17:58<simonrvn>meh, no images, and fb console isn't enabled here
17:58<enouf>XY: and perhaps some other distro is more for you - perhaps slackware, or gentoo
17:59<XY>if you want to label me call me a amiga user, i used to be one of those wayback, it sure beat win3.11
17:59<ranix>welp we're on the fast track to segue
17:59<simonrvn>anyone mind giving me a description of the xkcd image?
18:00<ranix>simonrvn: virus that reads youtube comments back to users before posting them, filling them with self-loathing
18:00<enouf>xkcd image?
18:01<XY>all i want is the default owner/permissions for gdm.conf so i can evaulate this issue further, and fix the d**n thing without doing it with a one-line aptitude fix
18:01<enouf>it's likely as mentioned earlier XY - and i already told you i don't use gdm
18:02<XY>apt seems very happy last time i checked
18:02<enouf>root:root 640 , just reinstall the pkg that installs it, or look at the .postinst
18:02*simonrvn was wondering what was going on...
18:02<XY>enouf: thanks
18:03<ranix>XY: try "cd /home;ls -1 | while read name;do chmod $name:name -r $name/*;done;"
18:03<enouf>i and some others mentioned it way up there .. likely when you were PM spamming me :-P
18:03-!-Knuck0ne [] has joined #debian
18:03<XY> intresting my gdm.conf = 644
18:03<ranix>insert a $ into the third occurence of name
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18:03<dpkg>i guess xy problem is that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are looking too closely at a problem: they have got stuck at a particular point (Y) doing something (X) and so ask about step Y, not realising that there is an easier or better way to do X in the first place. See and
18:03<ranix>and chown instead of chmod
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18:04<ranix>simonrvn: damn that's creepily on-target
18:04<XY>dpkg: i got my answers investigating with ...... dpkg ....... and aptitude ........
18:04<dpkg>XY: You are moron #16
18:04<simonrvn>someone else suggested it - thanks go to that someone ;)
18:05<XY>themill: ok what really requires exim4 (light) on a default install
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18:06<XY>themill: oh yeah, how about inetd on a default install, i spent a lot of time with dpkg looking at dependencys avoid these sort of issues
18:07<enouf>XY: failed login attempts, cron jobs (as mentioned to name a couple)
18:07<grummund>could someone pls help me with a command to list all files in a tree except those in .svn directories?
18:07<themill>XY: dpkg is the wrong tool for that
18:07<grummund>find ./ -type d -name .svn -prune -type f -print -- prints nothing
18:07<enouf>XY: i don't have any inetd, iinm - that shouldn't be an issue
18:07<XY>themill: dpkg is the wrong package to examine dependencies with????????
18:08<enouf>XY: but i do have much software installed that's disabled, and rcconf helps me do that quite easily
18:08<themill>XY: yes, that's why tools like aptitude and apt-get/apt-cache were created
18:08<XY>themill: aptitude will display the same information
18:08-!-miksuh [] has joined #debian
18:08<themill>XY: a stone axe and a metal axe both work in the same way, but I know which one I'd prefer to use.
18:09<simonrvn>grummund: -prune first then -name arg, might want to look at -wholename too
18:09<enouf>grummund: no errors? move -type d to after -name .svn
18:10<grummund>find ./ -prune -type d -name .svn -type f -print
18:10<grummund>find ./ -prune -name .svn -type d -type f -print
18:10<enouf>XY: you seem quite new to all this - so i suggest you do "/msg dpkg grounding" , and "/msg dpkg selftell" and read read read ;-)
18:10<XY>themill: nice analogy, but i depended on the information in front of me, i am going to consider reinstalling things in a really stupid fashion because its becoming clear to me that i cant rely on any info in front of my face, if i knew that using operating systems was going to be this annoying back when i had a zx81 i would have quit when my games were taking 10 minutes to load form tape thank you very much
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18:10<grummund>both print nothing... am i even close?
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18:11*enouf hasn't had to -prune yet .. well, the ./ is silly, just use .
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18:11<enouf>you appear to be pruning everything :-P
18:11<simonrvn>first, quote your name args '' ; second, try using -wholename
18:11<grummund>yep, it appears so
18:12<enouf>right '.svn'
18:12<XY>enouf: shall do, not really new, but definetely very annoyed that i wasted so much time again, for some reason or other things just stop working lately, with very little know provacation, i would love to agree with your hypothesis but previous data i have disproves it .
18:12<grummund>hmmm, why would '.svn' be different to .svn ?
18:12<ranix>XY: you might get better amswers in this channel in the future if you didn't sound like you came straight out of 4chan circa 2005
18:12<themill>the shell should eat the quotes. should be no difference
18:12<enouf>XY: either way - it's all still useful reading info .. no worries
18:13<ranix>XY: you sound like a troll
18:13<simonrvn>habit, for me, and sometimes find needs them
18:13<enouf>i always have to use ' ' around my -name
18:13<themill>simonrvn: if you have * yes
18:13<simonrvn>esp. if you're trying to glob ;)
18:14<enouf>yup '*.svn' :-p
18:14*enouf globs a lot
18:14<XY>no, i sometimes miss the old days, these days its becoming harder and harder to relate to the current generation of users. i am 34 and feel like i am 60.
18:15<XY>when i am in front of a computer ...
18:15<XY>if you know what a zx81 is , you will know how long i have been tinkering with these boxes .
18:15<enouf>find . \( -wholename .svn -prune \) -o \( -type f -print \)
18:16<themill>or even: find \( -name .svn -prune \) -o \( -type f -print \)
18:16<XY>i could use a bloody lesson on irssi,
18:16<enouf>find . "-wholename .svn -prune" -o " -type f -print" IINM
18:16<XY>thats for sure
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18:16<ranix>XY: I could run a spectrum emulator on my pubic hairs
18:16<ranix>XY: get with the times
18:16<rutski>I'm confused about how LC_CTYPE affects char set/encoding, when I hear that said, I'm not sure what char/set encoding it's effecting
18:17<themill>enouf: don't think " " works for grouping like that
18:17<rutski>I mean... the execution character set is static, isn't it?
18:17<enouf>XY: i'm older than you
18:17<grummund>themill: it sure don't ;-p
18:17<themill>grummund: so am I, actually...
18:17<rutski>oops, wrong channel
18:17<enouf>themill: perhaps - i recall something about " being used to replace \(
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18:18<grummund>find . -wholename .svn -prune -type f -print -- prints nothing
18:18<grummund>find . \( -wholename .svn -prune \) -o \( -type f -print \) -- prints the entire tree including .svn subdirs
18:19<simonrvn>this is what i've done:
18:19<themill>grummund: find \( -name .svn -prune \) -o \( -type f -print \)
18:19<enouf>grummund: how about locate | grep -v ".svn" :-p
18:19<grummund>themill: fabulous... thank you
18:19<simonrvn>find /path -type f -prune \ -wholename '.svn/{entries,dir-wcprops,empty-file,format,README.txt}' -o \ -wholename 'db/{format,fs-type}' -o \ -print
18:20<enouf>eww .. wholename sucketh there?
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18:20<simonrvn>oops, ignore that db/...
18:20<themill>grummund: the parens aren't actually necessary there, but perhaps help readability
18:20<simonrvn>only thing that worked reliably for me at the time ...
18:20<grummund>enouf: that wouldn't help becuase locate won't be up to date
18:20<enouf>update it :-P
18:21<enouf>it has it's own PRUNEPATHS= though as well as other things that make it not the best choice
18:21<grummund>themill: in that case i was just missing the -o from my first attempt. oh well
18:21<themill>grummund: yep :)
18:22<enouf>i guess -type d sucks ass there too
18:23<dr1v3r>guys i know this is not a debian question, but anyone know where i can get apache support please?
18:23<grummund>find . -type d -name .svn -prune -o -type f -print0 | xargs -0 rm -v
18:23<grummund>job done ;-)
18:23<dr1v3r>no one in channel
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18:24<enouf>themill: now that i think about it, iirc, "(" ")"can be used instead of \( or \)
18:25<enouf>which is much more typing, so it's silly
18:25<ranix>dr1v3r: you can take a leap of faith and ask a slightly off topic question here if it's not terribly involved
18:25-!-JethroT [] has joined #debian
18:25<ranix>dr1v3r: it takes as much effort to read that as it does to direct you to another channel anyway
18:26<enouf>and .. funny , my 1st instinct was to mention the missing -o .. oh well - (/me knows he should always go with his gut)
18:26<themill>enouf: yeah, that would make sense -- you've just got to protect ( ) from the shell somehow. Single quotes would also work ;)
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18:26<dr1v3r>well basically when i type in the url of my web address it gives me the download file box instead of the webpage.. any ideas?
18:26<simonrvn>!lart themill
18:26*dpkg duct-tapes themill to the floor and drools on him
18:26<enouf>themill: aye
18:26<dr1v3r>its something silly but i just can not figure it out :(
18:26<simonrvn>dr1v3r: php? enable it
18:26<ranix>dr1v3r: you using php or perl?
18:26<themill>simonrvn: :'(
18:27<ranix>dr1v3r: or is it an htm/html page
18:27<dr1v3r>hell, see i told you it was something silly
18:27<dr1v3r>thanks guys :D
18:27<simonrvn><-- partial mindreader ;p
18:27<themill>dpkg: tell dr1v3r about php wants me to download still
18:28<enouf>hehe - what a factoid name :-p
18:28<themill>enouf: yeah, too bloody long by half :(
18:28<themill>simonrvn: esp-over-tcp/ip is one thing... you need to get lart-over-tcp/ip working
18:28<enouf>i vote for 'pwmtds' :-)
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18:29<simonrvn>lart-over-tcp/ip would fricking rock
18:29<themill>it would make irc much more fun
18:29<ranix>simonrvn: I'll work on that after I develop an orbital raygun that bitchslaps drivers who don't use turn signals
18:30<simonrvn>and more relaxing ;)
18:30*enouf steals simonrvn 's karnak turbin for an hour :-p
18:30<simonrvn>ranix: ...and (almost) run over pedstrians and cyclists
18:30<enouf>er s/karnak/carnak
18:30<simonrvn>cron, stop bitching at me ffs
18:31<ranix>simonrvn: don't forget lane changes in mid-left-turn
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18:32<XY>ranix: at the end of the day, it seems to come down to the opinion. i am with the times, the times of 30,000 viruses etc, i think there are some dumb things being done with the design of things, using a mta to deliver messages on a local machine etc..... but of course i am the dumb one, etc. maybe i dont understand "todays" design philosophys regarding software, maybe i dont want to understand any more, its getting very old. i dont want my computer to have a mta for
18:32<dr1v3r>guys i get Failed to fetch Temporary failure resolving ' deas that mean i have a problem with my DNS?
18:32<dr1v3r>when i try to apt-get update
18:33-!-ao2 [~u@2001:1418:117::1] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:33<XY>anyways, i off happy hacking...
18:33-!-XY [~XY@] has quit [Quit: leaving]
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18:34<dr1v3r>ok thanks simonrvn
18:34-!-neocalderon [] has joined #debian
18:35<Halitech>dr1v3r can you open a web browser and load
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18:37<dr1v3r>i can from this box yea, but dont look like i can from my linux one
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18:38<Halitech>dr1v3r are they both behind the same router?
18:39<drone77>may be useful
18:39<dr1v3r>no they behind different routers. i will try traceroute when i get back into my box again :( bloody firewall
18:40<Halitech>dr1v3r might be the firewall blocking it
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18:41<Halitech>dr1v3r check your resolv.conf file and see what the DNS servers are in there
18:41<dr1v3r>yea i got a feeling it is, i could access the sites earlier but i put the FW in and now i have probs
18:41<quittt>tell me a thing
18:41<dr1v3r>and now i made a bigger one coz i locked my self out of it lol
18:41<quittt>why use Debian and not Ubuntu?
18:41<simonrvn>!troll quittt
18:42<dr1v3r>coz ubuntu is a deb rip off :D
18:42<dr1v3r>can not beat the real thing
18:42<simonrvn>&troll quittt
18:42<dr1v3r>theres your telling
18:42<quittt>simonrvn, I'm not trolling, I'm really asking it
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18:42<simonrvn>!tell quittt -about why debian
18:42<dpkg>Test Failed.
18:44<Halitech>quitt - I've been asking myself the same thing lately and honestly, I'll be changing over to debian as soon as I have everything backed up because after almost 3 years with Ubuntu, I'm ready to "take off the training wheels" so to speak. Ubuntu is doing good things with making it easier to get into Linux but after so long, you want more control and a better experience
18:44<quittt>why take of the training wheels?
18:44<Halitech>dr1v3r what about distros like mepis and Sidux? do you consider them rip offs as well?
18:44<quittt>I used Debian before, but I've seen no differences between them... hehe
18:45<simonrvn>!tell Halitech -about not debian
18:45<Halitech>quitt - why? because I can and I want to. in some ways Ubuntu is the same as windows, it makes choices for you, Debian allow syou to make all the choices for yourself
18:46<drone77>hmm trying to use meta keys in irssi and Alt works as meta when it's Alt+2,3,4 but when I use Alt+p nothing happens, I need to use Ctrl as the meta - wondering if this is meant to be happening?
18:46<avu>quittt, one huge difference is that with debian, releases are made when they are really ready, not when the timer goes off
18:46<quittt>Halitech, that's true
18:47<quittt>avu, but when they are ready, aren't they old?
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18:47<avu>quittt, one can't have bleeding edge software that is also well tested and stable
18:47<Halitech>simonrvn - I can agree with that but at the same time, isn't that what gnu/linux is about? taking what you like about something and changing things you don't like?
18:47<themill>!version chasing
18:47<dpkg>A higher version number does not mean that it's better, it just means newer. Debian's "stable" release might not have the latest packages, but it has packages that have been tested and bugfixed and for selected packages you can use You should have a better reason than "newer" when considering compiling from source or using 3rd party repos. Ask me about <> Tell us what you're doing isn't just <sns syndrome>.
18:47<avu>quittt, those are mutualy exclusive goals
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18:49<Halitech>avu I agree with you, guess thats why I've always stayed 1 full version behind ubuntu, always felt like a guinea pig for MS when I was using windows and waiting for service pack 3 to come out to have an OS that was actually ready for use
18:49<quittt>for example Firefox bug fixes
18:49<quittt>Firefox bug fixes wouldn't be updated
18:49<avu>yes they are
18:49<avu>critical and security fixes are applied in stable
18:50<Halitech>quitt - you arent always tied to the software in the repos, I have Ubuntu 7.04 but running FF3
18:50<quittt>ah of course
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18:51*themill wonders if this is straying towards #debian-offtopic ...
18:51<quittt>which ISO should a get of Debian desktop for work?
18:51<Halitech>quitt just means you have to do some work yourself which is another reason why debian is looking more enticing to me
18:51<avu>quittt, read the install guide
18:52<avu>quittt, it tells you all you need to know about your options regard installation media
18:52<quittt>Halitech, ah yes
18:53<quittt>Halitech, but I want something that already have the "basic" ones
18:53<quittt>to be more practical
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18:54<Halitech>quitt I've done a couple of installs recently using the netinstall with just a command line and then built them from the ground up and honestly, the responsiveness blows ubuntu away with the apps selected
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18:55<Halitech>quitt its all a matter of deciding what apps and functionality you need and want to make the decision on what you want to install
18:55<quittt>Halitech, my mother's pc is suffering from instability
18:55<quittt>it is using Arch Linux
18:55<quittt>and it used to use Ubuntu
18:56<abrotman>hi .. #debian here ...
18:56<Halitech>quitt did it have troubles with ubuntu as well?
18:56<quittt>I know
18:56<quittt>Halitech, yes, so strange problems
18:56<quittt>I will try Debian
18:56<quittt>if it gets unstable, it is a PC problem
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18:57<Web-sidux666>hitler fickt dich in den arsch
18:57<Web-sidux666>hitler fickt dich in den arsch
18:57<Web-sidux666>hitler fickt dich in den arsch
18:57<Web-sidux666>hitler fickt dich in den arsch
18:57<Web-sidux666>hitler fickt dich in den arsch
18:57-!-mode/#debian [+q *!*] by FloodServ
18:57<abrotman>works for me
18:57-!-Web-sidux666 [] has quit [autokilled: This host triggered network flood protection. please mail if you feel this is in error, quoting this message. (2008-10-05 22:57:44)]
18:57<simonrvn>well, that's useful </not>
18:57<abrotman>it's not?
18:57<simonrvn>(it is)
18:58<Halitech>quitt if different operating systems have stability issues, then I'd be looking at hardware issues. do you have a live cd of some sort like Ubuntu? you could try booting that to run the memtest and see if its a memory problem
18:58<quittt>so to install Debian, which cd should I get?
18:58<quittt>to have a desktop
18:58<abrotman>the netinst most likely
18:58<avu>quittt, I told you, read the install guide
18:59<Halitech>quitt get the netinstall and do a netinstall, you can either unselect everything but basic and build from the ground up or leave desktop selected as well and get a basic gnome install
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18:59<simonrvn>i recommend the latter for quittt
19:00<Halitech>quitt use the info from this link if you want to build your own
19:03<quittt>my mother like KDE
19:04<Halitech>quitt so use the same instructions for XFCE but change the apps to KDE apps
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19:07<Halitech>quitt or do the basic install, select desktop and then once its installed, open a terminal and apt-get install kde-desktop to get the full monty with the least amount of effort
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19:09<quittt>I used a lot Debian Sarge
19:11<quittt>people say that Debian is the best for laptops
19:11<quittt>most secure
19:11<quittt>and most stable
19:12<Halitech>quitt I would think it would depend on the laptop, base install might be stable and secure but if its got a non supported wireless card or strange internal hardware, it could be useless
19:13<Halitech>quitt I know on the toshiba tecra I installed on, everything worked without a hitch but my compaq armada m700, I really had to work to get the wireless to work
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19:24<Halitech>if I have a torrent that I have partially downloaded in ubuntu, and I change to debian, should I be able to continue downloading or will it mess up?
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19:30<Dowland>Halitech: it should still work.
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19:31<Halitech>Dowland ok thanks, I thought it should as I've heard someone say they could do it when dual booting between windows and linux so couldn't see why it wouldn't but thought I'd ask
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19:40<blal>O hai. Is it possible via iptables to forbid a given user from sending any packets onto the network? I especially don't want a particular user making DNS queries.
19:40<blal>Something like "iptables -A OUTPUT -m owner --uid-owner luser -j DROP" ?
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19:44<debacle>hi all linux gurus ! i'm in trobule with "mount manpage" and i need help. I'd like to remount (under a ditterent directory) a readonly partition as writable without unmounting the already mounted same partition. Is this possible ?
19:46<blal>ok first of all, that just seems like a bad idea, like you haven't quite thought things through. secondly...
19:46<blal>...there are some interesting stuffs in the manage about "remount".
19:46<blal>maybe the proper way to go is to mount it read-write and remount it read-only elsewhere...
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19:47<blal>see --bind, --rbind
19:47<debacle>reading mount manpage i see --make-shared|slave|private|unbindable option but i can't understand exactly if this is what i'm looking for ...
19:47<blal>also see -o remount
19:48<blal>we must be using different distros coz "man mount" doesn't contain any instances of "--make-shared" etc
19:48<blal>not even the word "private"
19:48<blal>u using debian?
19:48<debacle>blal: i'm on lenny
19:48<simonrvn>probably using lenny ...
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19:49<blal>ur using some kind of fancy, space-age version of mount that i dont understand. us mere mortals just use stable
19:49<debacle>reading remount section : It does not change device or mount point.
19:50<debacle>i'd like to live the parition mounted as ro and mount _again_ as writable
19:50<blal>if its any consolation, there's probably an alternate approach to the problem that don't require you to use funky mount options
19:50<blal>the real question here is why
19:51<blal>to answer your question, I don't know. but this seems kinda funny to me, to be honest. id like to know more bout why
19:51<blal>(funny as in odd)
19:52<blal>Is it possible via iptables to forbid a given user from sending any packets onto the network? Something like "iptables -A OUTPUT -m owner --uid-owner luser -j DROP" ?
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19:53<debacle>blal: i'm using rsync to backup a partition. ... since this partition must be readonly (just for security reason) i'd like to mount again as writable (in a different mount point) for rsync only.
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19:54<debacle>after rsync has finisched its tasks i'll unmount it
19:54<simonrvn>blal: recent iptables and kernels do
19:54<simonrvn>you'll have to roll your own kernel to do that
19:54<bzed>debacle: why do yo uneed to mount it r/w for rsyncing?
19:55<debacle>bzed: it's the destination so it need to be writable
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19:55<simonrvn>debacle: there's short tutorials here and there on the web to do just that
19:56-!-streuner [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:56<simonrvn>one involves using a r/o "public" /mountpoint and nfs localhost r/w in /root
19:56<debacle>simonrvn: may i ask you the link please ?
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19:57<blal>simonrvn : like how recent? I'm 2.6.18-6
19:57<simonrvn>google it like i did. i bookmarked it, but it's on another partition i don't have access to right now
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19:57<abrotman>oh come on ...
19:57<simonrvn>blal: .24-.26 something like that
19:57<debacle>simonrvn: ok .... thank you !
19:57<blal>simonrvn : k
19:57<bzed>debacle: aah. I thought you wanted to sync from it
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19:59<blal>what happens if you "mount /dev/hda1 /media/mnt1" then "mount /dev/hda1 /media/mnt2"? I'd do it but I don't wnat to mess up my computer.
20:00<debacle>blal: let me try it .. just a sec
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20:01<blal>debacle : You see where I'm going with this, yes?
20:01<simonrvn>way back when it used to do weird things... now i'm not sure; i imagine it'd be still odd, but better able to cope.
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20:01<simonrvn>if one was mounted r/w, the other would be too. not so sure now.
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20:03<debacle>blal: it works !!!!
20:03<blal>debacle : r/o on one, r/w on the other?
20:04<blal>debacle : u could prolly do -o user=backupguy,mode=0700 or something to lock it down nice 'n tight
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20:05<debacle>blal: it does not work
20:05<blal>now ur just giving me mixed messages.
20:06<debacle>blal: soory: mounting the same device with different mount options do not work. mount says: device busy
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20:08<debacle>blal: the filesystem integrity is very important ... so probably it's better to not do strange mounts and remounts ...
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20:09<blal>debacle : oh ur a fine one to talk :-P
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20:09<blal>debacle : ur best bet is likely to sort of rethink the situation
20:09<debacle>blal: i thik the safest way it to simply remount as rw, rsyncing, remount as ro. do not you agree ?
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20:10<blal>debacle : perhaps an alternate approach is in order. say, leave it r/o all the time; then schedule a cron job to sftp to do backups, or something.
20:10<blal>in other words, the data being backed up wouldn't be copied over via rsync but via another technology.
20:10<blal>you'd never have windows during which the partition was r/w
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20:11<blal>debacle : wait, is the mounted partition on a remote computer?
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20:12<debacle>blal: no ... rsync runs locally, with local source (hd) to local destination (hd)
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20:15<debacle>blal: i agree with you. I'll leave the partition as ro and i'll remount as rw only for rsyncing time
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20:17<BobPenguin>hello there. I'm sorry to say I've been having a lot of issues with multimedia related applications on UbuntuStudio 8.04. The most annoying ones are related to Ardour and Lives Video Editor. I was wondering if you could recommend me other media friendly linux distros, or mention an IRC chat where I could get that info
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20:17<enouf>awe crap - wrong channel
20:19<enouf>BobPenguin: does "Multimedia" == DRM laden dogcrap ?
20:20<enouf>go buy an apple and use final cut pro already
20:21-!-Gekz [] has joined #debian
20:21<amphi>or wrestle with cinelerra ;)
20:21<enouf>or kino :-P
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20:22<BobPenguin>no money for an apple. Ubuntu studio was fine until they included pulseaudio. Since then I've been having problems
20:22<amphi>that looks like a kthing to me
20:22<enouf>isn;t there some 64something studio? linuxmint?
20:22<enouf>remove pulseaudio
20:22<enouf>amphi: i don;t think so , not surte though
20:22<BobPenguin>yeah, I'm considering that one. I'm under the impression it is aimed at 64bit processors, which I do not have on my box
20:23<enouf>you don't?
20:23<enouf>and you're editing video?
20:23<BobPenguin>I did remove pulseaudio, but my apps are still broken
20:23<BobPenguin>amateur videos.
20:23<BobPenguin>also I want to start to record a music project
20:24<BobPenguin>want to use jack to get low latency music recording
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20:24<enouf>see if ##linux, and/or #video4linux on freenode has some options? how about poking about on
20:25-!-spucky [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
20:25<amphi>that 'lives' thing was very primitive when I last looked at it
20:25<BobPenguin>thanks a lot for the advice, I'll get a look there :)
20:25<BobPenguin>amphi. it worked fine for me until ubuntu 8.04
20:26<enouf>BobPenguin: sorry, seems it's called #v4l not #video4linux
20:26<amphi>BobPenguin: I'll give it another look perhaps
20:26<simonrvn>lives thing looks primitive, but it's pretty powerful. kino is just crap. prob. with lives is that some backend stuff mmap()s stuff, and doesn't stream it
20:27<simonrvn>so it gets sucked up into ram like mad...
20:27<amphi>simonrvn: thanks - it was several years ago I last tried it
20:27<BobPenguin>Thanks enouf
20:27<simonrvn>tried it last winter
20:28<BobPenguin>amphi, lives has also some cute "video jockey" features. That means, some realtime video effects
20:28<simonrvn>if you have gobs and gobs of ram, go ahead and try that
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20:29<enouf>a 32bit CPU == no gobs of RAM ;-)
20:30<enouf>unless you have a cluster of them maybe ;-)
20:30<simonrvn>anything over 512 MB is gobs to me
20:31<simonrvn>fuck, why is cron puking on on me? stop it! i'm going to build that kernel soon, dumbass
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20:36<simonrvn>ignore that last outburst
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20:40<enouf>BobPenguin: might be worth the read (concerning audio)
20:40<enouf>simonrvn: sorry, no can do :-P
20:40<simonrvn>enouf: well fuck you then fucker :P
20:40*simonrvn giggles and runs away
20:41*enouf sets up a cron to hunt down simonrvn O_p
20:42*simonrvn runs random on himself so he gets even more unpredictable
20:42<BobPenguin>thanks enouf!
20:42*abrotman puts "huntthesimonrvn" into bsdgames
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20:46<MotoHoss>Please assist me : I'd like to get the "Clone Tab" Option in Iceweasel when right-clicking on the tab... using Iceweasel [[Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv: Gecko/2008071420 Iceweasel/3.0.1 (Debian-3.0.1-1)]] I think google has disowned me.
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20:53<MotoHoss>heh i guess everyone "huntingthesimonrvn"
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21:24<simonrvn>MotoHoss: when you find something like that, tell me.
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21:37<coconutwoman>hey some debian dudes are using aptitude in sid exclusively (?), some sidux sisters say "never use aptitude, its crap"... now i am not sure if i continue using aptitude in sid...
21:38<torr>what does debian considers to be a "release"?
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21:39<MotoHoss>simonrvn: will do.
21:39<torr>what does debian consider the defining element for a 'next release' ?
21:40<abrotman>!tell torr about wwlr
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21:40<MotoHoss>coconutwoman: I was a synaptic/apt addict... I am now recovered. I only use aptitude. It has never failed me.
21:42<abrotman>coconutwoman: use whatever you're comfortable with .. /msg dpkg why aptitude
21:42<torr>abrotman, that is not what I asked :/
21:42-!-freex_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:42<abrotman>torr: then be less vague
21:43<chealer>torr: a Debian release is the same as a Debian version/suite/branch
21:43<torr>abrotman, I want to know for instance why isn't a release when there is a new kernel version and that is it. Off course a new kernel maybe too little, so new kernel, and libs and that is it
21:43<coconutwoman>MotoHoss: abrotman but how
21:43<MotoHoss>coconutwoman: the hold and keep , manual and automatic stuff has saved me skin. I use the gnome update manager to only be able to quickly... very quickly check the change logs. I never use anything else to actually update a pkg..
21:43<coconutwoman>comes that sidux is not using aptitude then
21:44<abrotman>torr: testing and unstable are rolling "releases" but is not a true release like stable
21:44*MotoHoss knows nuttin 'bout sidux.
21:44<abrotman>there is a #sidux
21:44<torr>abrotman, so my question is what "is" a release?
21:44<abrotman>depends how you define "release"
21:45<torr>is it a kernel , kernel+libs, kernel+libs+milion packages, specific packages?
21:45<abrotman>the whole thing?
21:45<torr>abrotman, well, but I am not the one that defienes it
21:45<abrotman>yes .. you are
21:46<torr>there is a new stable when debian say so
21:46<abrotman>when it reaches 0 RC bugs .. and some other criteria
21:47<abrotman>but usually the last item is the number of RC bugs
21:47<torr>abrotman, and "it"=?
21:47<abrotman>it is "testing"
21:47<craigevil>coconutwoman: aptitude works just fine in sid, the sidux devs are a bit weird in their methods
21:47<abrotman>lenny currently
21:47<torr>abrotman, so everything that got into testing needs to be bugless?
21:48<abrotman>not bugless .. but no RC bugs
21:49<coconutwoman>craigevil: until now i made good experiences with aptitude, even in sid, so i will not change my methods... just because weirdos do
21:49<coconutwoman>mhave done*?
21:50<torr>abrotman, but shouldn't there be some separation between system and applications?
21:50<torr>because on a system you could run old or new versions of the applications
21:50<abrotman>not much of a stable release then
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21:51<abrotman>there was talk some time ago about releasing subsets .. but i wouldn't be able to find that now
21:51<torr>and so you could have a relatively new system and put on it apps that are stable
21:51<abrotman>but then they wouldn't be stable
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21:51<torr>why not?
21:52-!-ephcron [] has joined #debian
21:53<abrotman>why would they?
21:53<abrotman>!sns syndrome
21:53<dpkg>i heard sns syndrome is a serious disorder otherwise known as Shiny New Shite Syndrome usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. Slashdot readers are more likely than others to contract the condition.
21:53<torr>The new system could be tested against all old stable application before it is being declared stable
21:53<abrotman>right .. that'd be called "a new release" :)
21:54<abrotman>torr: this is the way debian works currently .. if you don't like it, there are other distros
21:54<torr>abrotman, but in the testing RC there are bugs for new versions of mail client and such
21:55<abrotman>right .. and they're supposed to fix those bugs
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21:55<abrotman>the serious ones anyway
21:55<torr>sure, I just don't understand why application and system progress should be interlinked
21:56<abrotman>!meaning of stable
21:56<dpkg>"Stable" is a release, and it does not change much at all over its lifetime. There is a known set of bugs, and it gets security updates, and point releases. Some will consider this as 'stale', while others consider this one of the great advantages of Debian.
21:56<abrotman>torr: you can start your own distro if you'd like to do yours that way
21:56<abrotman>torr: otherwise .. be happy with
21:56<abrotman>and/or etchnhalf
21:57<torr>I don't know
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21:58<torr>abrotman, I like the fact that I don't need to update every so often and then try to figure out why one of my services doesn't work
21:58<abrotman>that's why it's called "stable"
21:59<torr>but on the other hand if there is a user space application like evolution that is 10 versions behind, and I can't give the new version to my users, it is a con point
22:00<abrotman>for who? not for an admin
22:00<abrotman>so you like to run around fixing new bugs that new software versions have introduced?
22:01<torr>but, maybe the old version has more bugs then the new
22:02<abrotman>then don't use debian
22:02<torr>if I could just install and if it doesn't work go back to the old version
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22:03<torr>I think it is important to have a stable system , but also to be able to upgrade applications
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22:03<abrotman>then it's not stable
22:04<coconutwoman>the most stable sisstribution is slackware
22:04<abrotman>we're just going to keep going around and around
22:04<abrotman>coconutwoman: that's subjective
22:04<torr>abrotman, then what should I use?
22:04<coconutwoman>abrotman, no ist metaconsistently
22:04<MotoHoss>torr: If I manage my systems and packages properly I can do just that, selectively with freedoms that no other SW System in the world can reproduce. ([22:02] <torr> if I could just install and if it doesn't work go back to the old version)
22:05<abrotman>torr: not debian .. and that makes it kind of offtopic here
22:05<abrotman>coconutwoman: that doesn't even make sense
22:05<coconutwoman>as i wrote
22:05<abrotman>whatever you say
22:05<coconutwoman>you just cant trust debian devs
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22:06<abrotman>torr: you can also create your own packages for your users and have your own private repository
22:06<torr>MotoHoss, how do you do that? because I am on etch, and it is difficult to find new packages for it
22:06<abrotman>!tell torr about backports
22:06<torr>abrotman, not everything has a backport
22:07<abrotman>torr: you can make your own .. i *just* said that
22:07<torr>most things doesn't have
22:07<MotoHoss>nope.. but with the packaging system I can apply patches I need to and keep my own repositories. just like abrotman said.
22:07<torr>currently I don't have the knowlede for it, but I could learn
22:08<abrotman>so go learn .. arguing with me isn't going to help you :)
22:08<torr>abrotman, I don't see it as an argue , I learned from you - what is a release, etc
22:08<abrotman>torr: but you're still saying you don't like it .. even though i've explained why it is that way
22:09<torr>abrotman, yes, I thought that maybe I am right, and shiny C:
22:10<torr>but I understand , it is an identity thing
22:12<MotoHoss>the point is the freedoms that debian offers you can be found no-where else, the freedom is embedded. it's the rock on which the swirl dances. "aptitude install doc-debian"
22:12<torr>MotoHoss, and you do you do it from etch?
22:13-!-dvs [] has joined #debian
22:13<MotoHoss>I am running Lenny (testing now). I moved from that.
22:13<torr>MotoHoss, Or do you have testing, and downgrade most packages that you don't need current to stable?
22:14<MotoHoss>I was running stable for 5 years... Last Spring I switched to testing.
22:14-!-dvs [] has quit []
22:14<torr>and how is it? usually I am warned against it
22:15<torr>there is this graph
22:16<torr>I think that maybe when the green and blue lines meat it is the time to go testing
22:17<torr>it looks like this was January 2008
22:17<abrotman>you might want to read what those numbers mean
22:17<MotoHoss>my 'work box' with on inet connection has 226 days uptime. it's uname -a is 2.6.26-1-amd64 #1 SMP Wed Sep 10 15:31:12 UTC 2008 x86_64 GNU/Linux
22:17<torr>abrotman, the green is the rc bugs for lenny, and the blue is for etch
22:18-!-esaym [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:18<abrotman>right .. so etch currently has more RC bugs than lenny
22:18<torr>abrotman, correct
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22:18<torr>abrotman, since january 2008
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22:19<torr>abrotman, so probably lenny is less buggy then etch currently
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22:20<abrotman>i don't know if i would say that .. i don't know which packages those RC bugs areon
22:20<torr>abrotman, there are links below that shows exactly the packages
22:20<torr>of the bugs
22:20<abrotman>i'm aware of that .. but i'm not going to read them all
22:21<MotoHoss>when the power failed and was off for 6 hours the ups gave up. otherwise it would be 600+.
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22:21<torr>nice MotoHoss , you give me an encouragement to upgrade
22:22<abrotman>to upgrade what?
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22:22<torr>I am just not sure if I will like the new bugs better then the old bugs
22:22<torr>abrotman, to lenny
22:22<abrotman>no .. upgrade what? not a server i hope
22:22<MotoHoss>my sources line says "deb-src lenny main non-free contrib"
22:22<torr>yes I have a server
22:23<torr>which serves ftp, mail, and about 15 desktop users
22:23<avu>torr, don't upgrade servers to lenny yet. or any system for which you need timely security updates
22:24<abrotman>torr: do not .. avu got it
22:24<torr>avu, security doesn't concern me , just 'running stability'
22:24<torr>I think
22:25<abrotman>you should stay with stable unless you have a good reason ?
22:25<MotoHoss>nuttin publicly available then?
22:25<abrotman>erm .. no "?"
22:25<MotoHoss>and you trust your users not to 'break stuff'?
22:26<torr>MotoHoss, who me?
22:26<avu>'nuttin'? :)
22:26<avu>that sounds like a bad play on the german word for female prostitute
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22:27<torr>MotoHoss, my users don't have root password so.. they can't do anything
22:27<avu>torr, only if there are no security holes
22:27<avu>which is exactly the point
22:28<abrotman>!tracker of doom
22:28<dpkg>it has been said that tracker of doom is a vulnerability database maintained by the debian security team, viewable at or read
22:28<MotoHoss>i dun need root password to do anything.
22:28<abrotman>or english
22:28<avu>what language are you speaking exactly? :)
22:28<MotoHoss>excuse me. s/dun/don't
22:29<MotoHoss>I speak english, I type in a language I do not know anything about. &<)
22:30<torr>MotoHoss, I don't understand how you can install stuff or break stuff without root password
22:31<avu>there have been countless security related bugs to allow one to gain root access. especially if one already has a local unprivileged account
22:31<torr>and lenny has one of these?
22:31-!-dvs [] has quit [Quit: See ya!]
22:31<avu>and lenny is not garantued to receive timeley security updates to make your exposure to such bugs as small as possible
22:32<avu>what's your reason for wanting to upgrade now anyway?
22:33<abrotman>sns syndrome
22:33<torr>I want the integration of gnomewith ftp
22:33<abrotman>the what?
22:33<avu>erm, what?
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22:33<abrotman>nautilus already does ftp
22:33<torr>I want the integration of gnome with ftp
22:33<abrotman>nautilus already does ftp
22:33<avu>gnome-vfs has done ftp as long as I know it
22:34<avu>probably even in potatoe
22:34<avu>certainly in sarge and etch
22:34<avu>(and how could I forget woody?)
22:34<abrotman>i don't think gnome-vfs existed in potato
22:34<torr>it doesnt' work for saving from evolution mail client directly to ftp folder
22:34<avu>abrotman, sure?
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22:34<abrotman>i think it was like gnome 1.2 or something
22:35<abrotman>it may have .. who knows
22:35<avu>well, I'm not sure either. the point is that it has been there for quite a while
22:35<MotoHoss>The reason I know how to do some of those dastardly deeds that can be done, is I know someone else out there knows much more than me. It is my job to prevent those folks from doing harm to my systems.
22:36<torr>but when I spoke with gnome or evolution , I don't recall, and they said that the whole vfs is undergoing a major change
22:36<avu>it is, it's being replaced by gvfs
22:36<avu>which isn't in lenny either
22:37<torr>not in lenny? :S
22:37<avu>because it still has regressions compared to gnome-vfs
22:37<avu>not in lenny.
22:38<torr>in evolution when I save as I don't get my ftp location as a saving possibility
22:38<avu>so lenny does not have a full gnome 2.22. It's mostly .22 but some parts (like nautlis and the whole vfs part) are still 2.20
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22:39<unblockme>Is there firewall installed by default in 4.0 server?
22:39<torr>I am gona learn eventually how to manage my own pacackages ;)
22:40<abrotman>!tell torr about mg
22:40<avu>well, iptables is installed I think, but there are no rules defined by default
22:40<abrotman>it's not running
22:40<torr>mentors? you told me, and I have joined the mailing list
22:40<torr>unfortunately , their channel is invite only
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22:41<coconutwoman>Is it true they do Dallas, regularly?
22:41<avu>torr, that's not true
22:41<avu>torr, /j debian-mentors
22:41<abrotman>need a #
22:41<avu>no you don#t
22:41<avu>at least not with a decent[tm] irc client
22:42<abrotman>i thought irssi needed it ..
22:42<torr>here it is free good
22:42<avu>no, never did
22:42<torr>in freenode it is blocked
22:42<abrotman>coconutwoman: do you need help?
22:42<abrotman>torr: no .. OFTC .. not freenode
22:43<torr>I C
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22:43-!-alt is "Donovan Hill" on #debian #Corsair @################### #cola @+#linuxfriends
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22:44<torr>I am off, thanks , good night
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22:46<coconutwoman>is anyone porting the vista-kernel to debian?
22:47<abrotman>coconutwoman: stop trolling
22:47<coconutwoman>excuse me?
22:47<avu>abrotman, when has that ever worked? ;)
22:47-!-Dowland [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
22:48<abrotman>well .. asking the same trollish questions on both networks makes it pretty obvious
22:48<coconutwoman>abrotman, do i know you?
22:48<avu>yeah, I mean, when has it ever worked to tell the troll to stop trolling :)
22:48-!-tjol [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:48<abrotman>do we know you?
22:48<coconutwoman>we? as in "gollum gollum?"
22:49-!-mode/#debian [+l 335] by debhelper
22:49<abrotman>avu: see ..
22:49<avu>see, you're just feeding it :)
22:50<coconutwoman>I want the same crappy experience in linux that i get in Vista :)
22:50<unblockme>I have 2 (A and B) ips on a VPS, only A can be accessed externally (using ssh, telnet...). B is only accessible when i'm logged into that working A via ssh. How can I tell its not my VPS and it is the host?
22:50<abrotman>coconutwoman: please stop
22:51<coconutwoman>ok stop you too
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23:10<feydreva>i just wanted to know, what is the recommended filesystem, for debian, for a desktop computer ? i have 3 drive have 350 Gb.... I read some article that said ext3, other xfs, other jfs... but most of the article are from 2006...
23:10<feydreva>what would be the recent recommendation ?
23:11<abrotman>if you don't have a good reason not to .. use ext3
23:16<feydreva>I thought that with ext3, there is no need to run fsck very often. My computer fsck every partition every 30 mount.. is it normal ? is there a way to change that ? (it s taking a very long time sometimes)
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23:16<abrotman>you can change that if you want
23:16<avu>feydreva, man tune2fs
23:16<feydreva>is it usefull to run it every 30 mounts ?
23:17<abrotman>feydreva: it's your data ..
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23:30<Ed__>Are there any web-gui's you would recommend to me for configuring iptables?
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23:44<Ed__>I'm having a problem forwarding ports...simply typing in "/sbin/iptables -A PREROUTING -t nat -p udp --dport 28070 -j DNAT --to" to forward UDP port 28070 in the command line doesn't seem to do the job
23:47<Ed__>i've tried many variations like simple "iptables" instead of "/sbin/iptables" and "iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p udp --dport 28070 -j DNAT --to-destination" but still doesn't do anything.
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23:47<Ed__>...btw is this the right place to post something like this?
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23:51<simy>is there a way to eigther A) Make one of two heads (LVDS vs external VGA output (on a laptop) dedicated to only showing one desktop? eg desktop 4 in fluxbox, or setting an enviornment variable like $DISPLAY=0:0 OR 0:1 so a program is stuck in the center of that window? because the xserver/xranr only see screen 0 (which has two parts LVDS and VGA)
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---Logclosed Mon Oct 06 00:00:51 2008