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#debian IRC Logs for 2008-12-16

---Logopened Tue Dec 16 00:00:11 2008
---Daychanged Tue Dec 16 2008
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01:13<Louis>Hi...i have a problem with my wireless connection (unfortunally i´m talking in Windows).
01:14<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
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01:14<Louis>when i use iwpriv to set my region to 5 i get a error
01:15<kop>Louis : You'll need to tell us the error. (I'm wireless clueless, so I won't know the answer.)
01:15<Louis>"iwpriv wlan0 set CountryRegion=5" returns... "no private ioctls"...
01:15<kop>!tell Louis -about paste
01:15<Louis>Anyone can help me?
01:15<kop>Louis: Maybe you need to be root? (A random guess on my part.)
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01:16<cahoot>Louis: FEIW I never have been able to use iwpriv in debian
01:17<cahoot>Louis: get the same error msg here
01:17<Louis>[kop]: i´m using iwpriv as root...
01:17<Louis>cahoot the erros msg is only "no private ioclts"
01:18<cahoot>wlan0 no private ioctls.
01:18<Louis>[cahoot]: yeh...but before wlan0 had private ioctls available...
01:19<Louis>before update some kernel packages...
01:20<cahoot>Louis: might be driver specific? this is iwl3945
01:21<Louis>i need to use channel 14 and this channel needs region 5 and i only know how to provide this channel using "iwpriv wlan0 set CountryRegion=5"
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01:22<Louis>maybe not because after the update the wireless had this problem...but i can´t compile a new driver...i´m getting some erros too...
01:23<Louis>well...iwconfig, ifconfig probably still working...
01:23<Louis>only iwpriv fails...
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01:26<Louis>[cahoot]: Are a another form to use channel 14 without using iwpriv? I think this will solve my problem too...
01:30<Louis>[cahoot]: please see this link (i have a ralink rt2561 802.11g not a prismII).Maybe i can try this...but i don´t know to do the link instructions...
01:34<cahoot>sorry no idea
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01:38<jigme>hi, anyone knows how to reset system font in Xubunto?
01:39<jigme>I cant remember where I have set it however I've set the system font too large
01:39<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
01:40<jigme>i'm sorry
01:40<Louis>cahoot, tanks about your time...i have a idea. i will try use a dos2unix command...maybe i will come back to ask for another things...bye
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01:53<louis>chooot, well my problem is solved. I think that i don´t do anything...just restart my computer...stranger but i´m happy...
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02:18<keviN>hi guys
02:18<Naicamine>hey whats up?
02:18*Supaplex wraps his head around heartbeat
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02:19<keviN>for my mom (debian lenny/sid) i need a wireless pcmcia card and i tought about this one: "tp-link TL-WN610G"
02:19<keviN>its an Atheros-chip
02:19<keviN>where can i see if the card works with debian lenny?
02:19<dpkg>from memory, hcl is at, see to see what's supported by the linux kernel,,, or ask about <modinfo pci alias>
02:20<keviN>ah nice! dont know about it, thanks :)
02:20<jm_>atheros has released open source drivers lately, probably best to check that
02:20<Supaplex>keviN: it should be cardbus, so treat it like pci if you know the pciid
02:21<Supaplex>and there are a few different lines of atheros. they only release chipsets (like realtek), so some may not be as clear cut as you'd hope for
02:22<keviN>okay, i just will look in one of those hardware compatible list
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02:23<keviN>i dont know the pciid
02:26<keviN>maybe i just should try it :)
02:27<keviN>and if all does not work, it will work with madwifi
02:28<Supaplex>there are a few that use a very different driver. good luck :)
02:29<enouf>keviN: you might also need to run 'update-pciids'
02:31<Naicamine>i wanna run debian on a laptop ive got, but when i go to install, the installer cant find drivers for my ethernet card
02:31<keviN>thanks! :)
02:31<Naicamine>i have ubuntu installed on there now
02:31<Naicamine>how do i check and see what drivers that has?
02:31<enouf>Naicamine: lsmod, lspci -k
02:32<enouf>!tell Naicamine -about what's my hardware
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02:34<Naicamine>"# lspci -k | grep -i ether" outputs: 05:00.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetLink BCM5906M Fast Ethernet PCI Express (rev 02)
02:35<enouf>if gnub00b00 works then lspci -k | grep -i driver
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02:40<Naicamine>if under works there is just a - does that necessarily mean it doesnt work?
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02:42<Naicamine>well i appreciate your help getting going in the right direction, i think i've got this figured out
02:42<And1>How do I format my usb-drive as boot-partition?
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02:44<jm_>!wayttd And1
02:44<dpkg>What Are You Trying To Do, And1?
02:44<And1>jm_: Trying to format my usb-stick, so I can install grub there.
02:45<jm_>And1: just grub?
02:45<And1>jm_: I don't know, which mk<TAB> command to use for e.g. sdd and for sdd1. - Yup.
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02:45<And1>jm_: And initrd.img and so on.
02:46<jm_>And1: you can use any fs that grub can read then
02:46<And1>jm_: I have an old usb-boot-stick here, how can I see, which fs it is?
02:46<jm_>And1: is it mounted already?
02:46<keviN>fdisk -l
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02:47<And1>I umounted it.
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02:48<And1>What's strange, /dev/sdd is also a partition, like sdd1, but sde is not a partition, only sde1... think that's right, that the whole drive is no partition?
02:48<jm_>you're confused I think
02:48<jm_>mount it and check fs type with mount
02:49<enouf>strings (or xxd or hexdump -C?) /dev/sdd | less and look for disklabel and grub info .. note bytes 440-510
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02:50<And1>jm_: I can't mount /dev/sde. That's my old stick. The partition on it is sde1 and is mountable. But I can mount /dev/sdd, the new one, and also sdd1. Know what I mean? So maybe the question is, how do I remove the filesystem from /dev/sdd.
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02:51<jm_>And1: simply partition it and mkfs it
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02:53<And1>Ah ok. - Now 'mount /dev/sdd /mnt' says "mount: Stake NFS handle". Trying to mount sde says "mount: you must specify the filesystem type". What's the difference here?
02:54<jm_>the latter is being printed because there's no fs on /dev/sde so mount failed
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02:55<And1>jm_: Ok. So how can I also have no fs on sdd? Just formatting doesn't work.
02:55<keviN>\/dev/sdd (without a number at the end) is the device itself, /dev/sdd1 (with a number at the end) is a partiton on the device
02:55<jm_>And1: I already told you, partition /dev/sdd, create a partition on it, thenk mkfs that partition
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02:56<keviN>the simplest way to create a partitontable: cfdisk /dev/sdd
02:56<And1>jm_: But then still I get the stale NFS handle-message. So there's still something on sdd?
02:57<jm_>And1: did you try sfdisk -R after partitioning it?
02:57<jm_>And1: and don't try to mount /dev/sdd - alternatively, that message may be caused by the fact you mounted it previously
02:57<jm_>and now kernel is slightly confused
02:58<And1>I see. So after reboot it also shall say, that I have to specify the file system type? ... maybe.
02:58<jm_>no, don't bother mounting it before you partition it and mkfs the *partition*, not /dev/sdd
02:59<jm_>and then you should be fine
02:59<And1>Ok, thanks. :)
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03:12<enouf>And1: if you really need to; dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdd count=100 #make CERTAIN you have correct of=/dev/name info in there
03:13<enouf>And1: prior to partitioning and mkfs'ing .. but you seem to not be aware of the 1st 63 sectors
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03:19<gsimmons>!tell Naicamine -about bcm5906m
03:20<thunder>can anyone tell me what's the difference between i686 and x86_64?
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03:21<thunder>and my cpu is amd64sempron2500+
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03:22<blarson>x86_64 is 64-bit. Debian calls it amd64.
03:23<thunder>and ,should i get the x86version for amd64?
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03:23<jm_>that's up to you to decide, but since you're asking, x86 will probably do (although using amd64 port may be beneficial for the future)
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03:25<thunder>ok. thanks~
03:25<blarson>If you have lots of memory and large processes, use amd64. 3rd-party binaries x86.
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03:42<enouf>thunder: earlier (1st generation?) amd semprons didn't have the 64bit extensions
03:42<enouf>thunder: grep flags /proc/cpuinfo will tell you
03:44<thunder>amd2500+ sempron is not 64bit?
03:45<enouf>thunder: i386 (is the 32bit x86 port) ... amd64 (is the 64bit x86 port) ... x86_64/em64t/Intel64 is intel terminology even though AMD came out with the 64bit extensions 1st
03:46<enouf>though .. the kernel uses (x86 and x86_64) those named dirs/ in it's source code - and it changes (and sometimes merges) with versions
03:46<enouf>now, ia64 is for itanium CPUs only
03:47*enouf just got done clarifying :-/
03:47*enouf points at
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03:48<thunder>well, which core should i get? i686 or x86_64?
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03:48<enouf> <enouf> thunder: grep flags /proc/cpuinfo will tell you
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03:48<enouf>and us
03:49<thunder>i wanna get a distro ,but don't know which match my cpu sys.
03:49<thunder>x86_64 or i686?
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03:50<enouf>thunder: how much system RAM is installed? and how much can it handle? Do you like Flash and Java and and ... if so, use i386
03:50<enouf>i386 is for you thunder
03:51<thunder>but there are only two types i686 and x86_64 in the mirrors
03:51<thunder>i386 = i686?
03:52<enouf>there are none of those on any debian mirrors
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03:52<enouf>686 is a superset of 386/486/586 ... got it?
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03:52<soyuz>that's weird
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03:53<thunder>sry, i'm wrong.
03:53<thunder>but what's the diffrence between i686 and i386?
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03:53<enouf>but yes, for all intents and purposes thunder i386 == 686 .. (though 486 is still supported)
03:54<enouf>read about Intel CPU pentium history
03:54<soyuz>don't forget, pentium = 586
03:54<thunder>ok, i wanna get some reading.
03:55<enouf>soyuz: yeah ,, one generation's worth
03:55<soyuz>I gotta admit, I am outta practise
03:55<thunder>newbie allways has lots of things to know..
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03:56<thunder>thanks for giving me so much help~
03:56*soyuz has problems getting administration shite
03:56<enouf>welll .. i admittedly forget a lot of specifics, because it's not important to remember ;-)
03:57<soyuz>is there a different way to handle webmin? that is, has it gone out of the debian distro?
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03:57<enouf>yep - gone
03:57<dpkg>hmm... webmin is a lame web-based interface for unsafe system administration for Unix. Check it out at Remember, dondelelcaro *hates* webmin. "i'd rather sit on the floor shoving table knives into live electrical outlets than run webmin on an exposed server." See about the removal. Don't use their .debs, they are of extremely poor quality.
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03:58<enouf>use ssh ;-)
03:58<soyuz>haven't been here for a looooong time
03:58<soyuz>nickserv doesn't remember me!
03:58<enouf>there's something on, but not sure how far along it is, or mature =
03:58<soyuz>ssh is the only way to fry
03:59<thunder>The P6 microarchitecture is the sixth generation Intel x86 microprocessor architecture, released in 1995 and is sometimes referenced as i686. It was succeeded by the NetBurst microarchitecture in 2000, but eventually revived in the Pentium M line of microprocessors. The successor to the Pentium M variant of the P6 microarchitecture is the Intel Core microarchitecture.
03:59<thunder>that's the info i get from wikipedia.
03:59*soyuz had an 80186 (yes that's right)
04:00<thunder>that has say, mycpu amd64_2500+ is i686's arch.
04:00<enouf>thunder: that paragraph spans many CPU lines from intel
04:00<soyuz>thunder ackshully, you've got x64
04:01<soyuz>that's two penguis worth of bootin' kewlness
04:02*D1ablo point to soyuz that he still have his 8088 :-)
04:02<thunder>i don't understand u..
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04:02<thunder>my cpu is x86_64 arch?
04:03<D1ablo>is 64bits
04:03*soyuz is orphan friendly. let's run OS9 on a 65B09E
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04:03<thunder>ok, i get it.
04:03<thunder>64bit but not x86_64
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04:04<thunder>it's just i386 (even i686), right?
04:04<enouf>thunder: if it's not 1st gen Semprons, it's 64bits most likely - but there's no x86_64 "Architecture/Port" in Debian
04:04<D1ablo>is all cpu are backward compatible
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04:04<thunder>ok, thanks all of u
04:04<soyuz>there's the amd64 ...
04:05<blarson>enouf: The x86_64 port in Debian is called amd64.
04:05<D1ablo>thunder > is simple the cpu is x86 compatible but the data width is 64bits
04:06<enouf>blarson: i guess i should say "no named x86_64 port"
04:06<thunder>enouf, thanks! i just not only get the distro of debian but know what's the difference betwwen x86 & i686:)
04:06*soyuz finds an ISO at
04:07<enouf>thunder: welcome; just remember x86_64 == amd64 (when discussing architecture)
04:07<D1ablo>after 80486 and for copyright reason (IBM) intel or other amd could ot call their CPU 80x86
04:07<thunder>and then?
04:07<D1ablo>they started calling them pentium etc...
04:08<D1ablo>thats why IBM called their line of cpu (TI/cyrix) 586/686 etc...
04:09<D1ablo>because they do have the copyright to the 80x86 trademark
04:10<thunder>ah, i know~ thanks!
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04:11<soyuz>ahh, the good ol' AMD K6/2
04:11<thunder>what's o1?
04:11<soyuz>I hadda coupla thos
04:11*D1ablo dcc a box of them to soyuz
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04:12<soyuz>err, thunder, you *do* speakie ingie don't you?
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04:12*soyuz gave a whole buttload of 72 pin RAMs away last year
04:13<soyuz>along with a few of these AMD K6/2's
04:13<D1ablo>soyuz> don't get me started with MCA :-)
04:13<thunder>soyuz, sry, i can not understand what you said.
04:14<thunder> you *do* speakie ingie don't you? ------------> what's it.. my english is poor..
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04:14<soyuz>not to worry, thunder, you'll get it eventually
04:14<thunder>can you make it simple? thx!!
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04:15<D1ablo>thunder> don't worry he's probbly a russian spy :-)
04:15<thunder>i have try many thing to enhance my English skills,
04:15<thunder>and Linux skill
04:15<thunder>l love them both, very much~
04:15<D1ablo>can you enhance my brain ?
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04:15*soyuz uploads brain enhancement
04:16<D1ablo>i tried but not enough memory :-)
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04:17<D1ablo>soyuz> i have aquired 2 sun sparc v880 :-)
04:17<D1ablo>am going to superload one of them
04:17<D1ablo>am just worried about the neighbourhood :-)
04:18<D1ablo>might take down the power grid
04:18<D1ablo>what i also could do is farm them :-)
04:19<soyuz>D1ablo : whatcha do is you get yerseff a coupla hunnert 12V lead-acid batteries, a power inverter and buffer yer dc that way
04:20<soyuz>mind you, since we are technically in the 21st century, I would like to know ONE THING!
04:20<soyuz>where the HELL is my rocket pack?
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04:21<soyuz>it's all John Titor's fault for messing with the timeline.
04:22<D1ablo>when i finish building my new shed , wil install few solar panels on the top of it and few wind mil generators around the place and hopefully will power the place
04:22<soyuz>wind gens are for blowhards
04:23<soyuz>you really need a good stiff wind (constant) for them to work right
04:23<D1ablo>the combination should be ok
04:23<soyuz>Also, solar panels attract vermin
04:23<D1ablo>i know someone who done it and he been on solo grid for 20 years now
04:24<D1ablo>he just replaced hi nicked flooded batteries
04:24*soyuz gets out his potato battery and checks the electrolyte
04:25<D1ablo>btw this server is a HP lh3 a 2 x pentium II 400mhz
04:25<D1ablo>am quiet sure mr poteato head ain't happy :-)
04:26<soyuz>geez, I *saw* one of those junked two years ago in south america on the street
04:27<soyuz>ackshully, it was Valparaiso
04:27<thunder>ackshully= ?
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04:27<soyuz>? = actually
04:28<thunder> ackshully=actually?
04:28<thunder>ok, i get one more word~~ haha~
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04:28<soyuz>akshully no. prolly jus slang
04:29<thaeusler>wahhhhtssss upppppp
04:29<thaeusler>4 ,kle-.ö9-p9
04:29*soyuz has gotta getta job
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04:31<thunder>gotta getta..
04:32*soyuz dpkg mysql
04:32<soyuz>that's frikkin me up
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04:34<thunder>-,- i know~
04:34<thunder>how good your english is.
04:34<thunder>how much i admire u.
04:35<thunder>i hope someday, my english is like u:-)
04:37<soyuz>thunder : that's because I've been speaking English for over 50 years
04:37<soyuz>thunder: what's your first tongue?
04:37<thunder>wow, i know.
04:38<soyuz>and I can change from a pure, 100% correct English and use vernacular
04:39<soyuz>keep practising, I am sure you will improve.
04:39<soyuz>until then, ladies and gentlemen... I am out of here
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04:41<thunder>yesterday, that was my first time to commulicate with a foreigner in English.
04:42<thunder>So tensional
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05:17<OdyX>Hi. Is somebody having issues with amule-daemon eating a lot of memory ?
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05:28<D1ablo>oh dear
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05:30<D1ablo>man i tied just about every prog i could find trying to reset the wd400bb to 40gb
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05:31<D1ablo>testdrive allow geometry manipulation but wont make it permanent
05:31<stevecotton>OdyX isn't looking for help, OdyX is the maintainer looking for an amule user who can replicate its RC bug.
05:32<D1ablo>radio control bug?
05:32<OdyX>Release Critical
05:32<OdyX>thanks for the precision stevecotton
05:32<stevecotton>one that stops Lenny releasing
05:32<OdyX>btw, I'm not the maintainer, just a user wanting to let Lenny be released sooner…
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05:33<D1ablo>man .... i rather have a stable os
05:34<stevecotton>In this channel I'm a bit wary of open-ended questions, thought I'd point out that you're not going to turn out to be clueless.
05:34<D1ablo>i usually wait untill they mature enough then i do upgrade
05:34<OdyX>understood… But the _next_ stable universal best-among-all OS needs some love D1ablo
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05:34<D1ablo>too much love ... can kill
05:35<D1ablo>just look at vista :-)
05:35<stevecotton>even unstable is pretty good at the moment
05:35<OdyX>because of the freeze…
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05:36<stevecotton>yes, it'll go mad as soon as Lenny is out
05:36<D1ablo>wish i lived in canada :-)
05:36<D1ablo>my pc will be fanless
05:36<D1ablo>overclocking come to mind too
05:37*D1ablo lives in Australia
05:37<OdyX>under-clocking is much much better ;)
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05:37<OdyX>stevecotton: that's exactly why I want Lenny out ! ;)
05:38*OdyX has a fan-less bi-2core-Atom 2GiB Ram from TranquilPC server at home.
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05:39<D1ablo>odyx> i have aquired recently a dual xeon 2.8ghz with 1gb ram but i ain't going to mess up with atm
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05:39<D1ablo>is going to be my main machine when i finish building the shed
05:40<D1ablo>is the best $10 i ever spent :-)
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05:45<stevem_>Lo, is there any way I can vote (as a user) on the DFSG resolution? or do I need to be a registered developer?
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05:46<OdyX>stevem_: no. You need to be "Debian Developer". Even "Debian Maintainers" can't vote.
05:46<stevem_>thats a shame
05:47<OdyX>stevem_: no... that's Debian democracy, like it or not…
05:47<OdyX>Note that the delayed proposal of Ganneff was to change this more or less.
05:47<stevem_>one choice is to allow core developers to act without asking in future on this issue
05:48<OdyX>you could launch a poll in to get a measure of User's opinion…
05:48<OdyX>stevem_: don't assume core developers are Evil ;)
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05:49<stevem_>I didn't, nor can you invalidate my feeling on thinking its a 'shame' I cant' vote
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05:51<OdyX>stevem_: not my intent at all...
05:51<OdyX>stevem_: my point is simply: actually, Debian's democracy is that way, like it or not. To vote, you need to be DD.
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05:51<OdyX>I'm no DD either
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05:52<petemc>stevem_: out of interest, what qualifies you to vote?
05:52<stevem_>shame the DD's arn't like MP's / Senators... a fixed 1000 positions and the users vote em in :)
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05:53<OdyX>DD's are no politicians, they are free-willing benevolent _workers_
05:53<stevem_>yeah I know
05:53<stevem_>petemc, I'm only a user
05:54<stevem_>An occasional developer yes, but not maintaining anything debian yet
05:54<amol>hi to all,i am having local repository how to crate Release.gpg file??
05:55<enouf>apt-mirror ? .. or /msg dpkg nmg
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06:01<stevem_>OdyX, whats your feelings on making debian 100% dfsg?
06:02<OdyX>hmmm Good and hard question.
06:02<OdyX>I would be in favor of it, because of ethical/political reasons.
06:03<OdyX>but I recognise that some non-free firmware is absolutely needed for some categories of hardware: disk controllers, …
06:03<OdyX>installation should always be possible on anything
06:03<stevem_>true, but then were not setting a very good example that way
06:04<stevem_>I install binary modules all the time, and software - but thats my choice to ruin my computer :)
06:04<enouf>or .. hrm .. i'm not even sure how that all works, from ftp masters to DAMs (which until yesterday, i never even knew of, and even now, i forget what the acronym stands for :-P)
06:04<dpkg>If you're seeing BADSIG 010908312D230C5F Debian Archive; this means that the signature on the Release.gpg file doesn't match the Release file. This happened because a mirror pulse was delayed. Use a different mirror, or wait 24 hours and the problem will resolve itself.
06:04<OdyX>but for network'ing and anything else not directly related to "make my computer boot Debian", I would favor these firmware-* packages to be separated from the kernel and be put in non-free
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06:04<stevem_>OdyX, yeah like the wifi modules that are in there
06:04<enouf>amol: see what dpkg just mentioned about badsig - is that applicable?
06:05<OdyX>stevem_: yeah
06:05<OdyX>the problem is for the disk controllers and such
06:05<stevem_>OdyX, makes me sick to my stomach when I see FSF touting the ubuntu-messed gnewsense
06:05<stevem_>it's debian the way its meant to be in my mind
06:05<enouf>you make me sick
06:05<OdyX>well... Ubuntu-messed for sure, but they have really strong requirements...
06:05<stevem_>I know enouf :P
06:06<stevem_>You make me sick too :D
06:06<enouf>booting can involve network, or any other form - so to say confine non-free to disk controllers is absurd at best
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06:07<stevem_>I think I'd rather be more cautious about what hardware I buy - or have binary drivers at the ready on usb/floppy/cd disk when installing debian
06:07<OdyX>enouf: I know... but nobody boots over WiFi… ?
06:07<enouf>just stop buying shit, stop using shit and stop supporting shit - end of story
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06:07<enouf>why not?
06:07<OdyX>enouf: 100%ACK
06:08<OdyX>because the standard reccomandation for Wifi is at least WPA1
06:08<OdyX>and I haven't seen much bioses supporting even basic WiFi…
06:08<petemc>i think macbook airs can boot over wifi
06:09<OdyX>From a floss-zealot point of view, I would _appreciate_ two kernel flavours: one -dfsg and one -we_are_sorry_that_you_need_nonfree_firmware: the -dfsg being free from any firmware and the other one not. The good thing is that people could at least "try" "free" kernels
06:09<stevem_>I was shocked the other week when creative have released the drivers for their latest chip EMU20K1 under GNU
06:09<koollman>stevem_: how is that shocking ?
06:09<stevem_>koollman, it's Creative :)
06:10<stevem_>it's like saying Lexmark
06:10<amol>enouf:i am not getting badsig error.W: GPG error: http://myserver testing Release: Unknown error executing gpgv
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06:10<amol>enouf:unknown error i am getting.
06:10<stevem_>OdyX, I've said the two kernel approach before on the debian-user mailing list - it had support, but no one has started anything
06:11<dpkg>i heard unknown error executing gpgv is what you will see from apt-get update if your clock is really wrong. Set it to approximately the right time using date -s "current time" (ask me about <date> for the current time if you don't know it!) and then apt-get update. Ask me about <ntp> for a better, more permanent solution.
06:11<enouf>amol: see that now
06:12<stevem_>OdyX, if it did split then "Debian GNU/Linux" would have to be the 100% DFSG version, and a "Debian Plus GNU/Linux" as the 99% DFSG version I thinks
06:12<stevem_>but then how much stuff (past binary firmware) may get crammed into Debian Plus
06:12<stevem_>it's a slippery slope
06:12<enouf>and who's going to maintain that arm of it?
06:12<koollman>the exact stuff that is in non-free ? :)
06:13<stevem_>well yeah Debian Plus would essentially be a non-free enhanced version
06:13<OdyX>enouf: Ben Hutchings ?
06:13<stevem_>more out-of-box friendly
06:13<enouf>and that would also cause a fork of the Security to be made
06:14<stevem_>before you know it... Ubuntu2
06:14<stevem_>since alot of this non-free stuff is i386/amd64 anyway
06:15<stevem_>but by having binary blobs now... were already part way to "Ubuntu2"
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06:18<enouf>ya know, i used to lend a hand on windows forums (~ win98-2k era) then i came to GNU and Debian, and thought i could leave all that crap[1] behind .. but no .. [1] Having to selectively decide who was worthy of help - then it was should i help this fucktard out who surfs using windows with no Firewall and gets swarmed with Malware cause they're using LookOut and IE, and now ... should i help this asshat out that chooses to use Binary Blobs
06:19<OdyX>no ;)
06:20<stevem_>I'm no asshat! :(
06:20<stevem_>I'm in favour against binary blobs!
06:20<enouf>you're a hypocrit - nothing new
06:21<enouf>you said you use them, didn't you?
06:21<stevem_>I said it should be my choice
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06:21<enouf>once again - you said you use them, didn't you?
06:21<stevem_>Apart from the wifi on my lappy, and nvidia graphics, theres nothing mroe
06:21<enouf>oh .. so exceptions are ok then .. i see
06:22<stevem_>Well apart from unknown binary blobs I may unwittingly be using
06:22<stevem_>No they arn't
06:22<stevem_>But it should be my choice to install them
06:22<enouf>that's not what i mean, and you know it
06:22<stevem_>Then I can fuck up my system, instead of giving them on a plate
06:23<enouf>that's correct, and you won't be receiving help from people like me - and others who can't access/view/modify the code - fuck up your system .. who cares, just don't let your 2nd Smoke come over into my yard
06:23<stevem_>yeah I am so not following now
06:24<enouf>you're a hypocrit
06:24<stevem_>I'm not!
06:24<stevem_>I'm arguing about how an OS that claims it follows its own guidelines, -- doesn't -- is hypocritical
06:25<stevem_>whether I am or not, is irrelevant
06:25<enouf>you are indirectly supporting the proliferation and usage of binary blobs by using them, and yet .. you say you are against them
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06:25<stevem_>enouf, I'm against them being in Debian
06:25<stevem_>there's a difference
06:25<enouf>then use another OS
06:25<stevem_>I don't want to, I like Debian - alot
06:26<jm_>let's not mention hypocrites who use binary only CPU-s and motherboards, and disks
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06:26<stevem_>your turning this into an argument and it wasn't meant to be
06:26<stevem_>I was just asknig OdyX what he/she thought
06:27<enouf>now jm_ brings up a very interesting point - remember how i said "<enouf> that's not what i mean, and you know it" ? Now - he's talking about what you meant about unwittingly ...
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06:28<stevem_>enouf - jm_ - what about it?
06:29<enouf>stevem_: you are against binary blobs being in debian? so .. we come back to booting and installation issues - what do you propose? Shall we have a list of Unsupported Motherboards and Devices?
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06:30<stevem_>I propose suffering without them, looking for alternatives if such ones exist. If none do - users can get there drivers on disk as the debian installer supports using them
06:31<stevem_>other than that you've got the slippery idea of a version of Debian with some non-free in is as standard
06:31<stevem_>but I like the idea, everything on your debian CD has source code to match
06:32<enouf>Listen man .. the whole thing stinks to high heaven and is insiduously assinine - in the same way commercials and ads are needed to support the Show/Program, etc .. that's all Bullshit .. the whole thing needs to be Flushed
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06:32<stevem_>enouf, stop speaking riddles!
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06:33<stevem_>say what you wanna see
06:33<enouf>This whole concept of stupid fucken patents/copyright/licensing is all a fucken circus of nonsense
06:33<stevem_>i agree
06:35<stevem_>I mean first thing I do when I'm done installing is get crap like my creative sound working, nvidia drivers, wifi, w32codecs, make iceweasel "pretty" by changing the icons to firefox again, all kinds of crazy stuff
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06:35<stevem_>but I like that what I started with was something pure
06:36<enouf>What would happen if you never bought Creative, or Nvidia, nor your Wifi crap?
06:36<stevem_>and if theres little reason to break from it, then I shouldn't
06:36<enouf>and decided never to use any w32codecs shit?
06:37<stevem_>well if say I was on my creative card with a EMU10K1 chip, don't need to bother - GNU drivers already in alsa
06:37<stevem_>if I'm on my lappy the graphics are intel... so don't need bother - it's GNU
06:37<stevem_>and I encode all my video and audio in theora and vorbis
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06:37<stevem_>but all video/audio is like that from other places
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06:37<enouf>a lot of "other places" smell
06:39<stevem_>I'm gonna ignore the rest of the world for the FSF/DSFG goals... it's not the biggest issue on the planet - but I'm not going to ignore my own personal duty to them either
06:39<stevem_>thats what I'm getting at - theres a middle ground
06:39<stevem_>But Debian out-of-the-box... installed-from-the-cd... should remain as pure as possible
06:39<stevem_>IMO - but thats just me
06:41<stevem_>*I'm not gonna
06:41<amol>enouf,after regenerating Release file ,is it needed to regenerate Release.gpg?
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06:43<enouf>amol: not sure - if you've set your time correctly and apt-get update works without issues, i'd think everything is ok once again
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06:44<enouf>!set the time
06:44<dpkg>To set the time in debian, use date --set. The truly enlightened user, however, will install ntp and adjtimex to have their clock set automatically on reboot and slewed to match time servers. You may also need to run tzconfig (sarge, etch) or dpkg-reconfigure tzdata (lenny, sid) and make sure you have the right UTC setting in /etc/default/rcS first.
06:44<amol>enouf,i have set time then also same error i am getting.
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06:51<enouf>amol: i don't know how to help you further - sorry .. but the relevant files and dir is /var/lib/apt/lists/
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07:03<d0t-bat>Is there anything special about adding a NIC to a debian installation?
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07:04<kp>networking comes to mind
07:04<d0t-bat>kp: you talking to me?
07:04<kp>ohh, sry. just have the correct modules d0t-bat
07:04<kp>for your NIC
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07:05<d0t-bat>kp: yeah assuming the correct modules are loaded, ifup ethx doesnt bring it up, is there anything else that should be done? aliases or anything of the sort? or should it just work?
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07:07<kp>ifconfig, see whats up
07:07<d0t-bat>device not found, yet the modules are loaded for the device.
07:07<enouf>are you talking about during Installation or after?
07:07<dpkg>Your network configuration is in the file /etc/network/interfaces ; "man 5 interfaces" for docs, (zless /usr/share/doc/ifupdown/examples/network-interfaces.gz for an example). Start and stop your networking with ifup -a and ifdown -a respectively. See also <dhcp client>, read "man resolv.conf" for DNS. Also ask me about <static route>.
07:08<d0t-bat>yeah i know about that, ta.
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07:08<d0t-bat>lspci lists it.
07:08<enouf>device not found is not good
07:08<d0t-bat>RTL-8029 is present
07:08<enouf>firmware for shit hardware?
07:08<d0t-bat>enouf: it makes no sense
07:08<enouf>such is life
07:08<d0t-bat>cant find any firmware "upgrades"
07:09<d0t-bat>enouf: thanks for your help :P
07:09<dpkg>rtl8029 is probably a RealTek PCI NIC that uses the ne2k-pci driver
07:09<d0t-bat>enouf: your right, and its loaded.
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07:13<d0t-bat>sigh, no wonder linux doesnt take off mainstream. it shouldnt be this bloody hard to get a simple fucking NIC to work. thanks for your lack of help as usual.
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07:13<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building
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07:17<stevecotton>!factinfo customer
07:17<dpkg>customer -- created by jm <> at Mon Jan 15 12:34:40 2001 (2891 days); it has been requested 271 times, last by petemc, 3m 50s ago.
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07:18<stevecotton>only 271 in all that time
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07:21<D1ablo>guys how happy my v880 going to be with debian ?
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07:21<D1ablo>[msg(dpkg)] v880
07:21<D1ablo>[21:21][dpkg(] i haven't a clue
07:22<D1ablo>[msg(dpkg)] sun sparc v880
07:23<D1ablo>oh man
07:24<D1ablo>this is funny
07:24<D1ablo>do /msg dpkg solaris
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07:25<D1ablo>but <ashp> Learning solaris is like anally raping
07:25<D1ablo> myself with a big red fire truck.,
07:30<D1ablo>night people
07:30<D1ablo>about to do a kernel upgrade need to restart the server
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07:47<Knight_Lord>Can anyone tell me a lightweight mp3 player?
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07:52<OdyX>Knight_Lord: mplayer
07:52<Sadox>Knight_Lord amarok and xmms*
07:53<Knight_Lord>Sadox amarok is not light
07:53<Knight_Lord>Sadox and apparently xmms doesn't exist in sid anymore
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07:53<Sadox>Knight_Lord use xmms2
07:53<Knight_Lord>That's slow
07:53<Knight_Lord>i tried
07:53<koollman>or audacious
07:54<Sadox>it runs well for me
07:54<enouf>judd: versions xmms
07:54<judd>enouf: xmms -- etch: 1:1.2.10+20061101-1etch1
07:54<enouf>it's not even in Lenny
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07:55<OdyX>xmms is GTK1 => will be deprecated for Lenny+1
07:56<Gekz>xmms2 sucks
07:56<Gekz>it's nothing like xmms
07:56<Gekz>its more like mpd
07:56<Gekz>someone should port xmms
07:56<Gekz>to gtk2
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07:58<OdyX>Gekz: go look for xmms's history
07:58<OdyX>there are at least 4 intents to port xmms to something else
07:58<Gekz>intent != the other thing
07:58<OdyX>yep, exactly
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07:59<OdyX>Audacious, BMP, BMPx, XMMS2, make your choice !
07:59<OdyX>or fork the original xmms ;D
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08:00<Gekz>is the lesserest evil
08:01<jm_>not too efficient either
08:01<Sadox>OdyX i think xmms2 is nice... i like to listen music with xmms2... my subwoofer is conected to my pc and from laptop i control the computer and xmms2 change songs etc
08:01<Sadox>trough ssh
08:01<Sadox>so xmms2 it's nice and useful
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08:01<Sadox>just like rtorrent :)
08:01<Sadox>and many others
08:01-!-path [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:02<Sadox>GUI for xmms2 it's optional :)
08:05<Gekz>I use transmission for headless torrenting
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08:06*OdyX uses mldonkey-server
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08:08<Knight_Lord>OdyX is it possible to get BMP for sid?
08:08<Knight_Lord>I can only find bmpx
08:08<OdyX>good question.
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08:09<Knight_Lord>And i can't add songs using bmpx because it always says that it can't find file metadata
08:09<Knight_Lord>The only working program until now has been audacious, which is pretty reasonable
08:09<Knight_Lord>But not quite as speedy as xmms
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08:11<OdyX>Knight_Lord: beep-media-player went away
08:11<OdyX>Closed bugs: 422681
08:11<OdyX>------------------- Reason -------------------
08:11<OdyX>RoQA; abandoned upstream; superseded by bmpx and audacious
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08:12<Gekz>why is GTK2 so different from GTK1
08:12<Gekz>that's uncool.
08:13<koollman>Gekz: because software evolves
08:13<Knight_Lord>some day when i really don't have anything to do I'll port xmms to qt
08:13<Knight_Lord>that may take a while though
08:13<enouf>Gekz: because linux let windows programmers in
08:14<petemc>dont be silly
08:14<koollman>some day you will start using mpd and the various clients, and will not look back ;)
08:14<enouf>why not?
08:14<stevecotton>Knight_Lord: read the comments from xmms' old maintainers first. The code is apparently terrible.
08:14<Knight_Lord>I think gtk has always been half broken from the beggining
08:14<petemc>enouf: your bias against windows doesnt have any place here, really
08:14<enouf>it's all Bloat
08:14<enouf>petemc: my bias is against bloat
08:15<petemc>or your perception on bloat
08:15<enouf>atleast win9x was fast
08:15<Knight_Lord>koollman i already tried to use mpd, and it took 20% of my cpu
08:15<Gekz>XP wasnt bloated
08:15<Gekz>which was the problem
08:15<Gekz>you had a 2GB OS with nothing in it
08:15<Gekz>except notepad and paint
08:15<enouf>Gekz: correct, but only without no ServicePacks
08:15<Gekz>my bloatlessness
08:15<koollman>Knight_Lord: well, either a bug, or the bad lib used, or you watch it during indexing :)
08:16<Knight_Lord>koollman i know it's a bug, but it's not fixed
08:16<koollman>hmm ... yes it is.
08:16<Knight_Lord>koollman so when it's fast sure, i'll use it
08:16<koollman>Or my cpu is too powerful for me to notice
08:16<koollman>(that's quite possible too. I need a slowbox)
08:16<petern>57 seems a bit warm
08:17<Knight_Lord>Even audacious is not so fast. I've tried to add my music collection 10 minutes ago and it's not yet done
08:17<enouf>koollman: all programmers need a slow box
08:17<koollman>enouf: that's exactly why I need one
08:17<enouf>pick one up at the curb ;-)
08:17<jm_>just use qemu without kernel module
08:17<Gekz>jm_: so true
08:18<koollman>yep ... I was thinking about something like that ;)
08:18<koollman>kvm, with some process limitation
08:19-!-mode/#debian [+l 361] by debhelper
08:19<koollman>Knight_Lord: I just checked. you migth be right. it takes 1 to 10 % of one core, varying. on a q6600 ...
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08:20<koollman>that's ... an interesting behaviour. and a bug, too :)
08:20<stevecotton>audacious' playlist handling code is, IIRC, completely rewritten in the version that goes in to Debian as soon as Lenny releases
08:20<stevecotton>on account of being ugly
08:20<jm_>does that version also stop chewing CPU when the player is diling/paused?
08:20<Knight_Lord>stevecotton and not giving any feedback also
08:20<Nemoder>also helps a ton to load metadata on display instead of on load
08:21<jm_>absolutely ;)
08:21<Knight_Lord>Nemoder there's an option for that? And it's not on by default?
08:21<Nemoder>option yes, default not sure
08:21<stevecotton>jm_ don't know, haven't tried. Merely fixed the bug that was really badly affecting me.
08:22<Knight_Lord>I also keep on getting this errors: (audacious:4734): MADPlug-WARNING **: samplerate varies!!
08:22<jm_>stevecotton: I shall test it soon then
08:22<Knight_Lord>It seems Load metadata from playlist file is off by default
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08:24<rennersn>hei toady
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08:26<rennersn>let's go on with Math
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08:30<^Crow^>olá! estou compilando meu kernel, quando dou um MAKE DEP ele dá esse erro, MAKE DEP IS UNNECESSARY NOW, alguém pode me dizer o que seria isso?
08:30<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
08:31<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
08:33<dpkg>nl is The Netherlands. Voor Nederlandstalige hulp met debian kunt U terecht in #debian-nl. For help with debian in Dutch, you can join #debian-nl.
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08:35<And1>enouf: Thanks, that was what I didn't remember. =)
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08:58<muh2000>is there a way to remote-auto-update debian workstations?
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09:01<jm_>you can use ssh
09:01<muh2000>would be long work for thousands of workstations... not that i have them but would be a hassle ^^
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09:02<jm_>there is cron-apt if you trust it
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09:06<petern>is there a decent jabber/xmpp client in etch?
09:06<petern>er, console client
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09:07<petern>what i can see seems to either assume a jabber account or doesn't use dns srv...
09:07<jm_>you could try bitlbee
09:08<OdyX>seems popular…
09:08<petern>seems to be an irc thing?
09:08<koollman>it is
09:09<jm_>yeah allows you to chat with people using jabber from your irc client
09:09<koollman>it's a special irc server, that can connect to jabber, msn, and others
09:09<koollman>all with an irc client
09:09<koollman>which is neat
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09:26<petern>hmm, did the screen + irssi + disconnect issue ever get resolved for lenny?
09:27<petemc>the what?
09:27<petemc>do you have a bug number?
09:27<petern>looking up
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09:33<kylix>我今天第一次使用ubuntu 聊天工具 有人在没?
09:34<kp>chicken scratch is soo cool
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09:42<itkey>hello nordwin
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09:44<itkey>guys i'm freaking out with the libc6
09:44<Nordwin-DE>I really have a weird problem: after installing the proprietary nvidia driver on my Debian "Lenny" (with KDE4) system, the default keyboard layout is US. I somehow I am unable to switch that to German, even google couldn't tell me how...
09:44<itkey>may i ask help here?
09:44<tim>Display my ignorance - I'm and apt-get diehard - what does "aptitude" mean by "these packages are BROKEN" other than it isn't going to install them. I'm pondering upgrading our test servers to Lenny, except I didn't like the output of aptitude (nor apt-get).
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09:45<azeem>itkey: you may
09:46<oliva>hi there ... sorry for this off-topi questin about DNS. I have this problem: If I try to resolve on the server it's all good but fi a try from an external server I get no response. How can I ask to the esternal server what address is it contacting to get my answer?
09:46-!-tim is now known as upgrading
09:46<petemc>dig +trace
09:46<upgrading>gee petemc types fast
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09:47<oliva>petemc: thanks :)
09:47<itkey>I've to upgrade my libc6 from 2.3.6 to 2.4... i read online that 2.4 is available only with lenny... can i install the libc6 2.4 in my etch or i'll have dependencis and distr problems? or the only solution is a dist upgrade to lenny?
09:47<azeem>itkey: why do you need 2.4?
09:47<itkey>for an application
09:47<itkey>i installed
09:47<upgrading>itkey: upgrade to lenny if you really need it. Which application
09:47<azeem>which is binary-only?
09:48<azeem>upgrading: lenny is not stable yet
09:48<itkey>libskype requests GLIB_2.4 and it is a lib of siptheeskype java gateway
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09:48<itkey>i need something stable for this system
09:48-!-dooglus [] has joined #debian
09:49<itkey>can i do apt pinning with the lenny repos or i'll have biug problems? libc6 is an important system library
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09:50<azeem>just upgrading libc6 from lenny shouldn't be a big problem
09:50<itkey>is the first time i ask here in irc because im forced to do this, i cant find any concrete help on the web
09:51<itkey>i read it has many dependencies isnt that true?
09:51<itkey>should i pinn and let it get also it dependencies from lenny repos?
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09:56<itkey>azeem so im going to try to upgrade libc6 from lenny repos
09:57<oliva>petemc: how is it possible that dig invoked with +trace resolve the name and without it doesn't
09:57<itkey>mmm but if i get the source of libc6 2.4 and i compile it? isnt this better?
09:58<OdyX>itkey: don't break your system for Skype… Skype sucks
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09:58<petemc>oliva: hmm, perhaps that wasnt the best advice, when using trace dig starts at the root servers and works it way back
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09:59<itkey>OdyX you're totally right... and im really hating it... but i need it for an integration
10:00<oliva>petemc: any other suggestion?
10:00<petemc>oliva: dig on its own should show the ns servers it used
10:01<petemc>;; SERVER:
10:01<itkey>OdyX can you suggest me a plausible solution to get that libc6 version with the lowest probabilities to brak the system?
10:02<oliva>petemc: in the case non working resolution it says no servers could be reached
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10:02<koollman>itkey: debootstrap some lenny , chroot
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10:03<petemc>oliva: not here it doesnt
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10:03<petemc>itkey: you could look for a version of the package you need backported to suit your system, or try to backport it yourself
10:03<oliva>petemc: so how could I do?
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10:04<petemc>oliva: are you using your isps server?
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10:07<oliva>yes petemc why?
10:08<petemc>so its them that are telling you host not found?
10:09<oliva>petemc: yes
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10:10<petemc>so your troubleshooting options are limited
10:10<petemc>(provided it works elsewhere)
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10:14<itkey>it seems a bit complex the backporting...with debootstrap and chroot.. :(
10:15<upgrading>oliva: dig +trace will try all the servers I think, if one is claiming it doesn't exist, or the recursive server had non-existence cached....
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10:19<itkey>any other suggestion? i need the libc6 2.4 for this integration and i cant forsake that... should i switch again to another distro?
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10:20<ravenbird>ROOOOOOOOT has landed!
10:20<petemc>itkey: you could try lenny, perhaps take a look at the current rc bugs and see if any would apply to you
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10:20<sundaymorning>hello, is debian planning on having linux 2.6.27 or 28?
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10:21<petemc>sundaymorning: yes, theres just been a hold up due to lenny freezing
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10:22<itkey>yes but distro-upgrade is unstable... so i should even reinstall the distro..
10:22<itkey>ok so no stable solution for my problem
10:22<itkey>ill think to something else
10:22<sundaymorning>petemc: hm, it's not going to make to lenny release, though?
10:22<petemc>sundaymorning: no
10:22<petemc>least, i dont think so
10:22<OdyX>itkey: you can upgrade to Lenny without much pain
10:23<itkey>i'll try
10:23<sundaymorning>hm, well 2.6.26 is ok, but 2.6.28 works better with my hardware
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10:25<Warmaniac>i want to ask you something if i can...
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10:27<itkey>g damn skype
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10:28<stew>itkey: you can either upgrade to lenny, or stick with etch, but create a lenny chroot for running newer software
10:29<stew>who knows, depending on the outcome of the vote, we could end up with newer kernels in lenny, but currently the plan is to release lenny with 2.6.26
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10:29<sundaymorning>can I vote?
10:29-!-rizha [~rizha@] has joined #debian
10:29<sundaymorning>or are that voting restricted to contributors?
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10:30<OdyX>sundaymorning: you can have Debian kernels from there:
10:30<itkey>allright stew thank you very much, im going to upgrade to lenny, at the moment i dont have enough time to learn how to chroot
10:30<upgrading>azeem you were saying libc6 upgrade from Lenny is not a big deal. I see that the upgrade path, etch to lenny wants to pull libc6 in as I install apt and dpkg from lenny for the upgrade. This sounds reasonable? If I don't like the output of "aptitude" from Lenny do you think I can stop there for a few days whilst I think?
10:30<OdyX>sundaymorning: you can't vote if you are no DD
10:30<stew>sundaymorning: only debian developers can vote
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10:31<rizha>heloo all... i have some problem with my flash disk... why my flash dish cannot read in windows but in linux it work...
10:31<sundaymorning>can I see how the voting is going, though?
10:32<stew>sundaymorning: not until voting is complete
10:32<upgrading>rizha: what file system did you put on it? Surely you have the wrong channel ;)
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10:33<sundaymorning>I see
10:33<rizha>upgrading: file system in my flash disk is VFAT
10:33<rizha>upgrading: help me???
10:33<OdyX>sundaymorning: you can see _who_ voted, but not what. After the end of the vote, you'll be able to see who voted what.
10:34<itkey>excuse me, just another question, if upgrade to lenny i'll have a libc6 > than 2.4... the dependency to that will be satisfied or after the upgrade i'll have to do also the backporting?
10:34<stew>itkey: after upgrading you'd have libc6 2.7
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10:34<OdyX>nope, mistake from my side..
10:34<cesurasean>Can anyone tell me why postfix is giving me the error Relay access denied when sending emails?
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10:35<upgrading>cesurasean: because you aren't authorised to send email, or it isn't the final destination for that email
10:35<cesurasean>upgrading: what do you mean exactly?
10:35<itkey>stew ok i'll have 2.7, but will the dependecy of the 2.4 be satisfied by a major version of that lib?
10:35<cesurasean>what is the problem?
10:35<stew>itkey: yes, it would be
10:35<cesurasean>why wouldn't I be authorized to send email?
10:36<stew>cesurasean: is "Relay access denied" coming from your mail server or some remote mail server?
10:37<upgrading>cesurasean: by default most people aren't allowed to send email from your server. PCs have to be listed in mynetworks, or possibily logged in
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10:37<upgrading>rizha: how does it fail?
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10:38<rizha>upgrading, the message is drive cannot be work properly
10:38<stew>rizha: the drive works fine in debian, but you can't use it in windows?
10:39<rizha>yes upgrading
10:39<stew>rizha: ask ##windows in
10:40<dr|z3d>rizha: From windows, try running a chkdsk /f <partition letter:>
10:41<itkey>excuse me: is correct changing etch to lenny and stable to testing ?
10:41<oliva>upgrading: petemc thankz
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10:43<upgrading>itkey: I always use the distro names so I change "stable" to "etch" and "testing" to "lenny" before I start.
10:45<upgrading>itkey: then I'm only on my third etch to lenny upgrade... all the rest were before lenny.
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10:46<stew>itkey: change all to 'lenny' if you want to stay with lenny after lenny releases, or change all to 'testing' if you want to get the new testing when lenny releases
10:46<itkey>sorry an old post in a forum confused me
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10:47<itkey>just changing etch to lenny in and
10:47<Nordwin-DE>hm, can someone here help me with a rather small but pretty annoying problem I have with Debian Lenny?
10:47<stew>itkey: don't use, use a local mirror instead: /msg dpkg mirrors
10:47<stew>itkey: but otherwise, yes
10:48<stew>Nordwin-DE: if you have a question, just ask it
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10:49<Nordwin-DE>ok.. the following happened: I have downloaded an succesfully installed the proprietary nvidia driver on my Debian Lenny system. unforatunatle, my keyboard layout at login is now changed to US, where before it was DE (which, being German, I'd prefer).
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10:49<Nordwin-DE>I have tried google, but it couldn't tell me how to change the default keyboard map
10:50<Nordwin-DE>and it is pretty annoying that now, every time I log in, I have to open a terminal and type: "setxkbmap de"
10:51<rr0d>you can set it in /etc/X11/xorg.conf
10:52<Nordwin-DE>hm, but I couldn't find an entry saying it uses the US keyboard map.. neither in the new xorg.conf nor in the old one(saying it uses DE keyboard map)
10:53<rr0d>in Section InputDevice there should be " Option "XkbLayout" "us""
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10:53<Nordwin-DE>Section "InputDevice"
10:53<Nordwin-DE> # generated from default
10:53<Nordwin-DE> Identifier "Keyboard0"
10:53<Nordwin-DE> Driver "kbd"
10:53-!-Nordwin-DE was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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10:54<Nordwin-DE>ok, I cannot past that many lines :-) nopw I know
10:54<Nordwin-DE>well, there isn't.. but then I'll just try to add that line (with de) and let's see if that workds
10:54<Nordwin-DE>thank you!
10:55<itkey>lol my country mirror is slower than .org
10:55<Nordwin-DE>brb, restarting X-Server :-)
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10:56<Nordwin-DE>wow, that was easy! thanks rr0d !
10:57<upgrading>our friend dpkg says use "safe-upgrade" then "full-upgrade" for upgrading a box from etch to lenny - does anyone know the rationale for this? Not least I think I need to use "download only" first on the full upgrade otherwise my coworkers will get annoyed if I kill the test server for too long
10:57<rr0d>Nordwin-DE: anytime :)
10:58<upgrading>itkey: we all hate telecom italia - we still haven't forgiven them for forwarding all that spam from Holland for 5 years.
10:58<itkey>following OdyX infos for the upgrade... install dpkg aptitude... then safe-upgrade and full-upgrade
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10:59<OdyX>dpkg's instructions ;)
10:59<upgrading>cesurasean: you defeated postfix yet?
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11:02<itkey>upgrading: just read now that... yeah is better if i dont start talkin' about italy now, or i should kill my self
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11:03<FILLVAIO2>Hi guys!
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11:06<upgrading>aptitude safe-upgrade is so painfully slow - it is like using Redhat ;)
11:06<aptitude>...but safe-upgrade is already something else...
11:06<stew>upgrading: slow compared to what?
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11:07<upgrading>stew: in the way it figures out what is is taking about 3 minutes to figure out how to do the Etch to Lenny
11:08<And1>How can I configure the size of the blocks of my usb-stick?
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11:09<stew>upgrading: its easy to figure out what is safe, much easier than figuring out a solution for a full upgrade, since that is a much more complex task, and the point of doing safe-upgrade first is that it makes the subsequent full-upgrade easier to solve
11:09<upgrading>And1: why would you want to?
11:10<And1>upgrading: Grub doesn't boot if it's 256, it seems.
11:10<stew>And1: which filesystem type are you creating?
11:10<And1>stew: ext2
11:10<stew>And1: man mkfs.ext2
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11:10<itkey>stew: can i stay just with the safe-upgrade? full means it will try to update all the other system packages or smoething else?
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11:13<upgrading>itkey: Looking at the output of mine -- you don't want to stick there. I have a load of packages which need to upgrade to be consistent. For example my "safe" upgrade is upgrading apache2 but not libapache2-mod-php5, I figure that ain't going to serve PHP pages when it is done, till I've done the full-upgrade
11:13<xeaio>maybe u guys know how 2 get glibc 2.2 installed
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11:14<itkey>allright thanks
11:14<itkey>coool mirror
11:15<upgrading>itkey: full upgrade means updating everything that seems out of data I believe. Although I'm still weaning myself off apt-get.
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11:17<upgrading>xeaio: urm that is an older version of libc than Debian stable -- why would you want it?
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11:17<itkey>funny mirror: E: Failed to fetch Connection timed out [IP: 80]
11:17<FILLVAIO2>I need help: i can't install aptitude. error at:
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11:20<upgrading>itkey: you can list several mirrors and it will fall back to the second when that happens. Phil Hand documented this somewhere....
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---Logclosed Tue Dec 16 11:26:41 2008
---Logopened Tue Dec 16 11:26:50 2008
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11:28<FILLVAIO2>upgrading: can you help me?
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11:29<upgrading>itkey: look for "tiered" by Phil, he was answering a question I asked about the UK mirror being toast that week (due to a disk crash).
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11:30<itkey>upgrading: solved recalling the aptitude install it download and proceeded, now in the safe-upgrade process | slow 30 40k... 1hour or more
11:30<upgrading>FILLVAIO2: what version of Debian do you have installed?
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11:31<itkey>how much unstable is lenny? is it a good solution for a "reliable" server?
11:31<upgrading>itkey: I'm doing "aptitude -d" to download it all first - avoids annoying not available failures, and shortens the down time (hopefully).
11:31<FILLVAIO2>upgrading: Linux myserver 2.6.18-6-amd64 #1 SMP Wed Oct 15 10:07:11 UTC 2008 x86_64 GNU/Linux
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11:32<upgrading>itkey: it is testing - there is a fair bit of churn as they get it ready for release. So you probably only want to run the update tool when there is a security announcement (join the secure list). Otherwise it is pretty good - less release critical bugs that Etch last time I looked.
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11:32<itkey>guys: how much unstable is lenny? is it a good solution for a "reliable" server? is better if i dont use testing mirrors?
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11:34<upgrading>itkey: I have lenny as my work desktop. I'm moving our test server there as I'm planning to upgrade a server our business depends on to Lenny. So I'm reasonably confident of Lenny.
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11:34<stew>FILLVAIO2: apt-get upgrade doesn't take arguments
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11:34<stew>FILLVAIO2: why are you using apt-get instead of aptitude?
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11:34<stew>FILLVAIO2: libapt-pkg-libc6.3-6-3.11 is a virtual package provided by apt, not a real package
11:34<itkey>upgrading: ok thank you i-ll keep just primary and security mirror, that should keep me away from too much testing/unstable packages right?
11:34<stew>upgrading: FILLVAIO2 is trying to downgrade from unstable to stable
11:35<troy|work>I am trying to strip down a base debian install for an embedded application. My goal is to have a boot time less than 10 seconds. I am almost there except udev seems to be required to properly initialize my pcmcia cardslot. Does anybody know how to make a pcmcia card work without udev?
11:35<troy|work>udev is taking about 10-15 seconds to complete...
11:35<stew>itkey: it should get you all of the testing packages. lenny is not very unstable since it has been frozen since july
11:35<petern>a lot of people use apt-get because it was always the way
11:35<Maulkin>troy|work: have a look at emdebian
11:35<petern>and using apt-get does not say "hey, don't do this any more"
11:35<Maulkin>troy|work: much of this work may have already been done for you... :)
11:36<troy|work>Maulkin: thanks very much... I will check it out :D
11:36<FILLVAIO2>upgrading: yes, you right. i need to be installed aptitude for downgrade libc6 from unstable to stable. I have many experiments on my virtual machine with it, and i have to do the same on my webserver. Using aptitude.
11:37<itkey>fillvaio downgrades libc6 will i'm fighting to get a new one? mmmm
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11:38<FILLVAIO2><itkey> i need to be stable verstion of my system, becouse i have depended third part aplication which need to be on OS Debian stable version :(
11:38<upgrading>itkey: Not sure you've got this stable/testing/unstable thing understood. It is simple. Have a look at the Debian Reference chapter 2. It isn't the packages that really need worry you, it is there interplay. The whole point of testing is for Debian to assemble the next release there, and make sure they all play nicely. Unstable is "unstable" because no one is making sure that they all play nicely.
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11:40<FILLVAIO2><itkey> i'm about 3 days trying to downgrade it with help in debian chat here :) many knowlages i have now
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11:41<itkey>upgrading: sorry it was a stupid comment me and fillvaio have different aims,i got what testing and and unstable means...however thanks for your explanation
11:41<upgrading>Damn one of the servers just crashed - be back soon
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11:42<upgrading>Grr cheap raid hardware
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11:43<JL>hello everyone. could someone please pastebin a generic password file or the entries for uucp and list? thanks
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11:44<FILLVAIO2>Is here anybody know how to install aptitude with this error? >
11:45<stew>FILLVAIO2: show us the output of "apt-cache policy apt aptitude"
11:46<stew>FILLVAIO2: and btw, it's been over 12 hours since the last time i told you to consider just reinstalling debian, as what you are trying to do is difficult, not supported, and certainly not guaranteed to work
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11:47<FILLVAIO2><stew> greating stew :) glad to see you. I have many good experiments on my virtual machine with working aptitude, and i have done it. But there i have working aptitude.
11:48<itkey>stew: the safe-upgrade seems updating a lot packages, also someones i installed manually... do you think i can avoid the full-upgrade to dont waste another hour downloading?
11:49<itkey>or just post-poning it
11:49<stew>itkey: i'd not recommend that
11:49<FILLVAIO2><stew> sorry, but for me is verry dificult to reinstall debian on remote server :(
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11:51<stew>FILLVAIO2: mixing stable packages and testing/unstable packages is not supported. you are trying to install aptitude from etch, which having apt installed from unstable
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11:51<JL>so can anyone cut/paste the /etc/passwd line for uucp please? (I dont need the password hash)
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11:52<stew>JL: "uucp:x:10:10:uucp:/var/spool/uucp:/bin/sh"
11:52<stew>JL: and there would not be a password hash
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11:53<JL>thanks stew userdel ed it trying to clean up ... forgot mail used it
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11:56<FILLVAIO2><stew> i don't understand how it's can happen. I understand is not supported. Do you think it's impossible?
11:56<stew>FILLVAIO2: do i think its impossible to use apt from unstable and aptitude from stable? is that what you are asking?
11:57<upgrading>FILLVAIO2: downgrading can include trying to downgrade to versions that use different binary versions. I recently downgraded a box from unstable to testing, but I didn't try and force packages down (I figured Lenny would catch up).
11:57<upgrading>FILLVAIO2: sorry I meant to say different file formats (especially binary file formats as they are hard to fix with an editor).
11:58<FILLVAIO2><stew> sorry for my language, i'm russian with not so good english.
11:58<stew>and maintainers don't downgrade config files if the config file formats change
11:59<upgrading>FILLVAIO2: unstable to lenny (testing) was just about doable, because they are currently reasonable close, and I decided running unstable as my home desktop was too much like hard work. I wasn't learning much, and Debian wasn't getting useful bug reports.
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12:04<FILLVAIO2><stew> but how to install both [apt] and [aptitude] from any of debian version? may be is solving?
12:05<stew>FILLVAIO2: add unstable to your sources.list and run apt-get update ; apt-get install aptitude
12:06<stew>FILLVAIO2: or try testing instead of unstable
12:06<FILLVAIO2>sid or unstable?
12:06<stew>or testing or lenny
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12:09<FILLVAIO2><stew> when i set unstable :) then update, then apt-get -s install aptitude :) i have this: 26 upgraded, 33 newly installed, 2 to remove and 263 not upgraded.
12:10<FILLVAIO2><stew> and about 200 lines of changes :( it's realy need to do?
12:10<stew>FILLVAIO2: probably not all of them are needed
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12:11<FILLVAIO2><stew> trying to set lenny now
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12:12<troy|work>Maulkin: had a look at emdebian but it is not much different than debian aside from smaller packages...
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12:12<stew>FILLVAIO2: its trying to doo all that becuaes you have a bunch of broken packages. its maybe not essential that you fix them all now, if you are just going to turn around and try to downgrade again, but I'd not expect to have lenny be different
12:13<troy|work>I am trying to strip down a base debian install for an embedded application. My goal is to have a boot time less than 10 seconds. I am almost there except udev seems to be required to properly initialize my pcmcia cardslot. Does anybody know how to make a pcmcia card work without udev or hotplug?
12:15<fxiny>tzafrir_laptop: i can print the euro sign with mrxvt without utf8 : en_US.ISO-8859-15
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12:18<stevem_>Does anyone here use a USB/Midi keyboard with Linux?
12:18<stevem_>Because I'm thinking of getting one, but don't know what a safe bet is
12:18<FILLVAIO2><stew> ok
12:19-!-mode/#debian [+l 366] by debhelper
12:19<stevem_>oh and by Keyboard I mean the musical kind
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12:20<cahoot>stevem_: possibly better chance of a hit in #lad on freenode
12:20<mordy_>i'm getting when trying to install grub - any suggestions?
12:20<stevem_>cahoot, what does that stand for?
12:20<stevem_>linux audio devices?
12:20<cahoot>stevem_: linux audio <smth>
12:21<stevem_>ok I'll give it a shot, thanx
12:21<FILLVAIO2><stew> oh yes. i guess i can't do that without big problems :~(
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12:22<stew>FILLVAIO2: do what?
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12:26<upgrading>Okay looking at the full-upgrade output for etch to lenny -- I assume the {a} behind packages it plans to remove is because it thinks they were installed automatically. I assume I can flag them as not automatic, and it might decide to keep them during the full upgrade??!
12:27<stew>upgrading: aptitude unmarkauto packagename
12:27<stew>upgrading: or use m/M in the frontend to mark/unmark (or is that unmark/mark?)
12:28<upgrading>stew: cheers -- all I need to do is defeat the muscle memory that types "apt-get" or "apt-cache" and I'll be an aptitude user ;)
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12:29<stew>note there are still things that apt-get/apt-cache can do that aptitude cant. and for simple package searches, apt-cache is much faster
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12:30<FILLVAIO2><stew> sorry for stupid quastion: is there possible to connect into my server using aptitude from another machine :)
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12:31<stew>FILLVAIO2: i don't think so. why wouldn't you just use aptitude on the server itself?
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12:33<FILLVAIO2><stew> because to many changes of installation unstable aptitude when i start apt-get -s. ANd i'm verry scare about my data and loosing connection of server.
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12:34<glax>Hi guys, I install b43 like a week ago and I could connect to wireless networks with no problem. Now when I do a iwlist wlan0 scan it doesn't detect any wireless network, may someone guide me on this
12:35<amphi_>glax: perhaps you need to do 'ifconfig wlan0 up'
12:35<stew>FILLVAIO2: i'd hope all the data is backed up somewhere already
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12:35<glax>I already try that, I also trying killing NetworkManager and starting it again
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12:36<FILLVAIO2><stew> it's about 450gb. :)
12:36-!-zjason [] has joined #debian
12:36<FILLVAIO2><stew> and 7 working sites.
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12:37<stew>FILLVAIO2: if its data you don't want to lose, it needs to be backed up somewhere
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12:39<FILLVAIO2><stew> it's would be so difficult i think :(
12:39<cahoot>glax: I'd try anload/reload b43 and study dmesg for any related errors
12:40<stew>FILLVAIO2: but worth the effort
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12:41<FILLVAIO2><stew> but if i try to boot from debian bootable cd. Can i downgrade it's with this any this method?
12:41<FILLVAIO2>need to go sorry
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12:41<FILLVAIO2>ba back soon
12:41<FILLVAIO2>thank you so much
12:42<itkey>safe-upgrade complete
12:42<glax>try but nothing unusual on dmesg
12:42<itkey>full-upgrade requested to download 830mb... avoidiing it
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12:43<cahoot>glax: didn't happen to touch the killswitch?
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12:44<glax>no, I also try enabling and disabling the radio manually
12:44<glax>nothing at all
12:45<cahoot>glax: ip link shows wlan0?
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12:47<cahoot>ip addr shows its ip?
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12:48<glax>cahoot, I cannot detect the network at all, no ip assing
12:49<cahoot>so ip addr doesn't show its ip?
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12:50<cahoot>(just making sure)
12:50<cahoot>dhclient wlan0 fails?
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12:52<glax>No DHCPOFFERS received.
12:52<glax>No working leases in persistent database - sleeping.
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12:53<Valtiel>have a translations from japanise in nature ?
12:53<Valtiel>for linux
12:53<Valtiel>for debian
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12:53<itkey>allright guys
12:53<itkey>safe-upgraded to lenny
12:53<itkey>libc6 working
12:53<itkey>integration working
12:53<Valtiel>dictionaries ?
12:53<cahoot>glax: and you're positive there are no error reported in dmesg wrt the wlan device?
12:54<itkey>thank you very much
12:54<itkey>thanks stew
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12:54<glax>no error
12:54<Valtiel>itkey: nothind hard
12:54<Valtiel>just dist-upgrade
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12:54<Valtiel>and all good
12:54<itkey>everything easy with the aptitude dist-upgrade
12:54<itkey>thank you DD guys
12:55<itkey>yes is all good
12:55<itkey>ive previous software working
12:55<itkey>and also no raid or other problems
12:55<upgrading>itkey: I don't think that upgrade is optional -- just leave the download running with "aptitude -d full-upgrade" and have a cup of tea (or an icecream, or whatever you do in Italy).
12:56<itkey>actually my system is perfectly working better than before
12:56<itkey>why should i download and upgrade other 830mb of packages?
12:56<glax>cahoot, dmesg | grep b43 returns this
12:56<itkey>i gave i look on that packages and there was nothing so much primarily
12:57<itkey>like i said before the safe-upgrade upgraded also many packages/libs i manually installed
12:57<itkey>even the mtf skype is working
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12:58<itkey>upgrading: however i'll follow your suggest and i'll leave aptitude -d downloading when i leave
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12:59<cahoot>glax: seems it was disabled first when the module was loaded - maybe try modprobe -r/modprobe now that it's marked as enabled from start
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13:00<Valtiel>many my friends can't and don't want uderstand what windows is rueful shit
13:00<cahoot>glax: btw is this a dual boot system?
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13:01*upgrading realises that aptitude is mostly complaining about packages he doesn't need - the clue is they start "libapache-" not "libapache2-" doh - so it is right and apt-get was being lazy ;)
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13:02<cahoot>glax: this is pure speculation - but - if all else fails I'd try boot to win and toggle the on/off button to enabled before closing windows - might be it messes with hw
13:03<Valtiel>when a lenny 5 be released and accesed for downloading from ?
13:03<glax>did modprobe -r/modprobe and still nothing
13:03<glax>will try that
13:03<fxiny>Valtiel: wir
13:03<stew>Valtiel: after the rest of the release critical bugs are solved or marked to be ignored: /msg dpkg rc bugs
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13:06<mordy_>can someone give me some tips on installing a kernel on a chrooted system installed via debootstrap?
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13:08<troy|work>I need a sysfs tutorial if anyone is available or has a good link. If I do not load udev, my PCMCIA card does not show up in /sys. As soon as I load udev, the card appears under /sys. How can I get my PCMCIA card under /sys without udev?
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13:09<sarrafo>I am having trouble applying patch layer7 in kernel 2.6.25, he returns this error
13:10<sarrafo>Servlab02:/usr/src/linux# patch -p1 < ../netfilter-layer7-v2.20/kernel-2.6.25-layer7-2.20.patch
13:10<sarrafo>can't find file to patch at input line 3
13:10<sarrafo>Perhaps you used the wrong -p or --strip option?
13:10<sarrafo>The text leading up to this was:
13:10-!-sarrafo was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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13:11<sarrafo_>I am having trouble applying patch layer7 in kernel 2.6.25, he returns this error
13:12<sarrafo_>Servlab02:/usr/src/linux# patch -p1 < ../netfilter-layer7-v2.20/kernel-2.6.25-layer7-2.20.patch
13:12<sarrafo_>can't find file to patch at input line 3
13:12<sarrafo_>Perhaps you used the wrong -p or --strip option?
13:12<sarrafo_>The text leading up to this was:
13:12<stew>sarrafo_: please don't paste in here: /msg dpkg pastebin
13:12<stew>sarrafo_: are you sure that -p1 is correct?
13:13<shze>where does iceweasel/firefox has its lockfile? ~/.mozilla/firefox/...?
13:13<sarrafo_>I saw that the site was so
13:14<stew>sarrafo_: what is the first file it is trying to patch?
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13:16<stew>sarrafo_: is that the full path listed in the patch?
13:17<sarrafo_>|+++ linux-2.6.25-layer7/net/netfilter/Kconfig 2008-04-29 00:40:01.000000000 -0500
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13:17<FILLVAIO2>hi again
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13:18<sarrafo_>stew: I've been there but I can not remember the solution
13:18<Woet>is there a linux/debian command to encoding something using AES256?
13:18<stew>sarrafo_: does /usr/src/linux/net/netfilter/Kconfig exist?
13:19<sarrafo_>stew: no
13:20<stew>sarrafo_: then it seems that this patch is not intended to patch whatever you have in /usr/src/linux
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13:20<sarrafo_>block/ Documentation/ Kbuild Makefile
13:20<sarrafo_>COPYING drivers/ linux-2.6.25/ README
13:20<sarrafo_>CREDITS .gitignore .mailmap REPORTING-BUGS
13:20<stew>sarrafo_: please stop pastin in here
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13:20<stew>sarrafo_: where did /usr/src/linux come from?
13:20<sarrafo_>ahh sorry
13:22<sarrafo_>stew: ln -s linux-2.6.25 linux in /usr/src
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13:24<stew>sarrafo_: are you sure that linux didn't already exist when you ran that command?
13:24<stew>sarrafo_: why are you using /usr/src/linux instead of /usr/src/linux-2.6.25 ?
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13:27<sarrafo_>stew: i see the kernel versions unpak here(2.6.19,25,27) has the file into the net 19 and the 27
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13:28<sarrafo_>i try the others versions kernel
13:28<stew>sarrafo_: you should try 2.6.25 first
13:29<stew>sarrafo_: i belive that when you ran 'ln -s linux-2.6.25 linux' it created /usr/src/linux/linux-2.6.25 not /usr/src/linux
13:29<stew>sarrafo_: you shoudln't be using /usr/src/linux anyway, but /usr/src/linux-$version
13:30<upsy>shze: ~/.mozilla/firefox/*/.parentlock
13:31<sarrafo_>stew: ahhhh
13:31<sarrafo_>i try
13:31<shze>upsy: found this in the web, but i dont have this file
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13:32<shze>upsy: "ls ./.mozilla/firefox/1arqtyqj.default/ | grep lock" gives me "blocklist.xml"
13:32<upsy>ls -A
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13:32<shze>upsy: thanks, that was it!
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13:33<sarrafo_>stew: i say ln -s /usr/src/linux-2.6.25 /usr/src/linux
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13:34<stew>sarrafo_: why? why not just use /usr/src/linux-2.6.25 instead of trying to make that symlink?
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13:34<stew>sarrafo_: note that the kernel README explicitly tells you NOT to create this symlink
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13:34<computer>how do i get my wireless to work?, it worked fine with ubuntu.
13:34<stew>computer: which wireless chipset?
13:34<computer>i dont know
13:34<FILLVAIO2><stew> i't me again. can i downgrade apt from unstable to stable manualy by downloading from ?
13:35<stew>FILLVAIO2: yeah possibly
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13:35<stew>FILLVAIO2: it would be tedious and difficult though
13:36<gsimmons>!tell computer -about what's my wireless
13:38<FILLVAIO2><stew> you tell me that will be difficult to change all packages from unstabe to stable via aptitude, i have done it with your perfect helping. And now think i will. Of course if you don't paste me in ignore list :)
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13:40<FILLVAIO2><stew> is that version of apt stable from policy i see> 0 right?
13:40<stew>judd: versions apt
13:40<judd>stew: apt -- etch: lenny: 0.7.19+b1 sid: 0.7.19+b1 experimental: 0.7.20~exp2
13:40<computer>what my hardware?
13:40<computer>whats my hardware?
13:41<stew>computer: you want "/msg dpkg whats my hardware"
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13:41<itkey>thanks again guys see u as late as possible
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13:43<troy|work>anybody know why my pcmcia card will not show up in /sys until I run udev?
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13:47<renzo>netstat -a
13:47<troy|work>woo hoo! sorry for annoying everyone for the last couple hours with my blathering. Seems to get your pcmcia cards detected without running udev you need to run /lib/udev/pcmcia-socket-startup
13:47<computer>ok i have PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection. so how do i get it to work?
13:47<FILLVAIO2><stew> i can't find libapt-pkg-libc6.3-6-3.11 packages. Can you help me?
13:48<stew>computer: what does "uname -r" say?
13:48<stew>FILLVAIO2: that is a virtual package provided by the apt package
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13:48<FILLVAIO2><stew> apt-utils depends on libapt-pkg-libc6.3-6-3.11; however:
13:48<FILLVAIO2> Package libapt-pkg-libc6.3-6-3.11 is not installed.
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13:50<stew>computer: i'd recommend upgrading to linux-image-2.6.24-etchnhalf.1-686 and then installing the firmware-iwlwifi package from nonfree: "/msg dpkg nonfree" ; then 'modprobe iwl3945' should make your wireless work
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13:51<computer>is there a way to save my drivers(audio/video/display) while using ubuntu? then i install debian and use those drivers i saved.
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13:52<chandu>I have a problem with importing gpg keys into my folder
13:52<chandu>I am running this command
13:52<stew>computer: i suppose you could use the ubuntu kernel, and copy the firmware from /lib/firmware, but we'd certainly recommend that you use the debian kernel. you'd have to think about how you were going to get security updates
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13:54<computer>why is it that ubuntu found all my drivers while debian did not? this sucks!
13:55<stew>computer: because debian tries to be 100% free software, and ubuntu doesn't
13:55<renzo>nadie habla español?
13:55<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
13:55<debacle>hi all, how can i reformat a ext3 partition ? i think i should do "mkfs.ext3 /dev/md0" but how can i know if the the disk was formatted with special options ? (like sector size and so on )
13:55<stew>computer: debian does have a driver for your wireless, it doesn't have the non-free firmware, though
13:56<computer>how much is it?
13:56<stew>debacle: tune2fs -l /dev/whatever
13:57<stew>computer: in this case, it is not that it costs money, it is that your freedoms related to the software are restricted
13:57<stew>computer: /msg dpkg dfsg ; /msg dpkg sc
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13:57<debacle>stew: do i have to run tune2fs on unmounted partition or not ?
13:57<stew>debacle: doesn't matter
13:58<debacle>stew: thank you man !
13:58<stew>debacle: you're welcome
13:59<computer>i might need to move back to ubuntu :-/
14:00<amphi>computer: why not just d/l the firmware?
14:00<computer>how do i know which firmwire 2 use?
14:01<stew>computer: the firmware you need is in the firmware-iwlwifi package
14:02<computer>i search firmware-iwlwifi and nothing comes up
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14:02<stew>computer: did you enable the non-free repositories?
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14:03<computer>i dont see a non-free repository
14:04<stew>computer: did you read "/msg dpkg nonfree" and /msg dpkg non-free sources" ?
14:04<dpkg>[iwlwifi] the new driver for Intel 3945 and 4965 wireless chipsets, included in Debian kernels from 2.6.23. Add <non-free sources>, then "aptitude update && aptitude install firmware-iwlwifi". "modprobe iwl3945" or "modprobe iwl4965" depending on your device's chipset. See (particularly if switching from ipw3945). See also <wmaster0>, <wireless tree>, <iwlwifi etch>, <iwlagn>. #ipw2100 @
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14:05<computer>found it
14:05<stew>computer: and note that you'll want to upgrade to linux-image-2.6.24-etchnhalf.1-686
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14:05<computer>i did that already
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14:08<computer>actually i thought i found it but no
14:08<MuH4hA>Hey! When installing Debian, one gets the question whether he wants to install collections like 'Desktop environment', which will install gnome. What is installed when selecting 'Laptop' ???
14:08<computer>how do i enable the non-free
14:09<stew>computer: did you read "/msg dpkg nonfree" and /msg dpkg non-free sources" ?
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14:10<computer>doing that now
14:10<stew>MuH4hA: acpi-support,hibernate,acpi,powertop,apmd,radeontool,anacron,wireless-tools,cpufrequtils,nvclock,wpasupplicant,vbetool,acpid,pcmciautils,toshset,bluetooth,avahi-autoipd
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14:11<MuH4hA>thanks, stew :)
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14:12<Wooly>is anyone around to help troubleshoot a slow NFS issue?
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14:12<FILLVAIO2><stew> WOW! I have installed APTITUDE! :) Thanx stew!
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14:12<FILLVAIO2>great experience ;)
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14:13<FILLVAIO2>but all my action in vmachine i did with locale RUS version, here is EN :(
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14:18<FILLVAIO2>Thanx stew, going to crash all my system via aptitude ;) before backup my data also
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14:18<FILLVAIO2>sorry , after :) my broken english
14:18<FILLVAIO2>no matter :)
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14:19<computer>why cant i run gedit /etc/apt/sources.list under root?!
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14:20<FILLVAIO2_killing_debian>its may be locked by another i think
14:20<stew>computer: do you get an error?
14:21-!-mtn [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
14:21<computer>cannot open display: (null) Run 'gedit --help' to see a full list of available command line options.
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14:28<FILLVAIO2_killing_debian><stew> tel me one more please: if i have stable=[dpkg] and unstable [apt]+[aptitude] can i do downgrade?
14:29-!-mode/#debian [+l 370] by debhelper
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14:30<dr|z3d>computer: ask your question.
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14:33<stew>FILLVAIO2_killing_debian: /msg dpkg partial downgrade
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14:34<stew>computer: you have to set the DISPLAY environment variable to :0 and "/msg dpkg run stuff as root"
14:34<computer>edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main"
14:34<_phoenix_>i use debian now for 10 minutes
14:34<ehnvis>computer: you can start an app as root that needs to open up on an x display if your logged in as a user. try to edit the file with nano or vim instead.
14:34<_phoenix_>can someone explane me how i can edit my pannel?
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14:34<computer>please some1 look at my sources.list and tell how i do this
14:35<_phoenix_>how can i edit the panel?
14:35<stew>_phoenix_: right click and select "add to panel", or right click on an existing item and select "remove from panel" or drag one
14:35<stew>computer: do you see lines in your sources.list that start with "deb" and end with "main" ?
14:35-!-nopleaseneu [] has joined #debian
14:36<computer>i guess so
14:36<stew>computer: edit the lines starting with 'deb' so that they end in "main contrib non-free" instead of "main" or "main contrib", then run aptitude update
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14:37<computer>how about the ones that are "deb-src"?
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14:38<stew>computer: those are for fetching the source of packages. if you plan to fetch the source of packages in non-free, then yes, also edit the deb-src lines
14:38<_phoenix_>stew a error message appears that says there is a problem
14:38<stew>_phoenix_: what exactly does it say?
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14:39<_phoenix_>stew nothing exept there is a problem
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14:39<_phoenix_>ill try to restart the xserver
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14:39<stew>_phoenix_: you get a window that says "there is a problem"?
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14:42<_phoenix_>it has worked but i still have no clue how can i use a vpn
14:42<computer>can i do it this way too ?
14:43<_phoenix_>how can i join a vpn?
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14:44<computer>i give up!
14:44<computer>back to ubuntu
14:44-!-piaupiau [] has quit []
14:44<dr|z3d>_phoenix_: Easiest method is
14:44<_phoenix_>computer dont do that
14:44<computer>too much crap to fix/tweak with debian
14:44<stew>_phoenix_: what type of vpn?
14:45<dr|z3d>Ubuntu is a good solid choice for those struggling with debian.
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14:45<stew>computer: yes, you can do that, you can eliminate lines 7,8,9,10 though
14:45-!-francoisXIX [] has joined #debian
14:45<computer>ok will try
14:45<stew>err, 6,7,9,10
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14:46<gnufan>computer: you can use something like apt-spy It automatically create sources.list
14:46-!-francoisXIX [] has quit []
14:46<stew>his sources.list is fine
14:46<_phoenix_>stew... thats the problem... i havent a clue so i have to install all and ask the administrator tomorrow
14:46<stew>he just needed to add non-free, which he has done
14:47<_phoenix_>stew i gues its a secvpn
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14:49<_phoenix_>while i wait for stews respnose... whats the default im on gnome?
14:49<_phoenix_>while i wait for stews respnose... whats the default im on gnome and debian?
14:49<stew>_phoenix_: installing it would just be "aptitude install secvpn" and hopefully then there would be documentation in /usr/share/doc/secvpn about configuring it
14:49<stew>_phoenix_: gaim or pidgin
14:49<gnufan>or you can use gaim
14:50<stew>_phoenix_: (depending on which version of debian you installed)
14:50<_phoenix_>stew... i dont know the version
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14:51<_phoenix_>stew: dont focuse on the IM.... the vpn is more important
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14:52<stew>_phoenix_: what do you need to know about the vpn?
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14:53<computer>i just cant seem to make it work
14:53<dr|z3d>Hamachi is a cross-platform vpn. Very easy to configure, doubly so if you couple it with a gui. eg ghamachi
14:53<FILLVAIO2_killing_debian><stew> how to ask to bot dpkg what version is stable or unstable ?
14:53<computer>can some1 edit my sources for me please?
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14:54<computer>edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main"
14:54<dr|z3d>computer: Use Synaptic.
14:54<_phoenix_>the server is
14:54<_phoenix_>the user is philipp.hufnagl
14:54<stew>computer: just delete lines 6,7,9,10, then run aptitude update
14:54<_phoenix_>and the password is ***************
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14:55<_phoenix_>and the other students in my class had managed it with no further information
14:55<computer>doesnt work
14:55<_phoenix_>computer never give up
14:55<_phoenix_>or do you realy wanna go back to ubuntu?
14:55<computer>2 frickin hours try to make this wireless work
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14:55<computer>im getting tired
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14:56<stew>_phoenix_: i doubt that secvpn is really the right type of vpn
14:56<stew>_phoenix_: especially since doesn't have port 22 open
14:56<dr|z3d>stew: Are you familiar with hamachi?
14:56<stew>dr|z3d: unless you are talking about yellowtail sushi, then no
14:56<computer>very frustrating
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14:56<stew>computer: be more specific than "doesnt work"
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14:57<dr|z3d>Not free, but it works very well.
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14:57<stew>dr|z3d: i'm very happy with openvpn
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14:59<_phoenix_>stew... so what you think is the right type?
14:59<computer>so it goes from deb etch main to deb main contrib non-free
14:59<stew>_phoenix_: you should ask them, they'd know better than I would. if i had to take a random guess, i'd guess pptp
15:00<computer>or deb etch contrib non-free
15:00<stew>computer: neither. it should end with "etch main contrib non-free"
15:01<_phoenix_>stew i guess too but when i tried it on ubuntu it hasent worked
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15:03<stew>computer: seems pretty self explanitory
15:04<computer>got it
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15:04<_phoenix_>stew... i have the entire evening.... computer seems to be in a hurry so please focuse on him at first
15:05<computer>thanks i have to go to work in an hour :(
15:05<_phoenix_>stew we have the whole evening to fix vpn but if it dosent work i have to go back to ubuntu...
15:05<stew>_phoenix_: if you have a question, just go ahead and ask it
15:05<dr|z3d>stew: OpenVPN, in an ideal world, it great. It's just a real dog to configure. Unlike hamachi, which is pretty trivial in that regard.
15:06<_phoenix_>stew how do i install ppt
15:06-!-dvst [~jperez@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:07<stew>dr|z3d: the default configuration works fine
15:07<stew>_phoenix_: did you search for pptp packages?
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15:08<_phoenix_>i already did and installed pptp-linux but i am not shure thats the correct one =/
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15:08<_phoenix_>stew i already did and installed pptp-linux but i am not shure thats the correct one =/
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15:09<computer>ok got it work finaly
15:10<computer>thanks guys
15:10<stew>_phoenix_: yes, that is the client. there is also network-manager-pptp-gnome for setting it up if you use network-manager
15:10<computer>now what do i download for my wireless with the non-free thing again?
15:11<stew>computer: aptitude install firmware-iwlwifi
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15:12<bloony>I cant get msn/torrents or anything else that I have to connect to to work on the wireless network in linux or mac(it works on a win xp computer), its a linksys wrt54g router.. I've also tried to connect with telnet, but cant get access to it..
15:12<computer>now what
15:12<computer>its installed
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15:14<computer>what do i do now?
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15:14<_phoenix_>stew i have used network-manager-pptp-gnome on ubuntu.... id like to use it again but it seems that aptitude dont find it
15:15<stew>judd: versions network-manager-pptp-gnome
15:15<judd>stew: network-manager-pptp-gnome -- lenny: 0.6.5+svnhead2574+dfsg-2 sid: 0.6.5+svnhead2574+dfsg-2 experimental: 0.6.6+dfsg-2
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15:15<stew>computer: modprobe -r iwl3945 ; modprobe iwl3945 ; then run "iwconfig" and tell us if it recognizes your wireless
15:15<stew>_phoenix_: yes, it appears to only be in testing and unstable, not in stable
15:15<computer>under root?
15:16<stew>_phoenix_: you could try to backport it, i don't know how well it would go: "/msg dpkg ssb"
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15:17<computer>FATAL: Module iwl3945 not found.
15:18<computer>eth0 no wireless extensions.
15:18<stew>computer: what does "uname -r" say?
15:18<_phoenix_>stew NO UNSTABE. Unstable was the reason why i went to debian.... i am good with pptp-linux
15:20<_phoenix_>how can i start pptp-linux stew?
15:20<gnufan>does you network use encryption ?
15:21<cahoot>the kernel doesn't offer iwl*
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15:21<stew>_phoenix_: i have no idea. check /usr/share/doc/pptp-linux
15:22<stew>computer: i thought you said you had already upgraded to 2.6.24 like i had suggested
15:23<_phoenix_>stew can you check.... seems i am to stupid for that
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15:24<stew>_phoenix_: you want me to read the documentation for you?
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15:25<_phoenix_>i dont kow how do i start the documetation
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15:25<stew>_phoenix_: hire someone to read it for you then
15:26<_phoenix_>isnt there a man entry?
15:27*amarsh04 wonders how many people don't realise how stable Debian's "unstable" is
15:27<gnufan>man man is the man entry ))
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15:28<mordy_>how do i check which processes are using file x?
15:29<the-me>mordy_, lsof
15:29<stew>mordy_: fuser x
15:29<amarsh04>one of the few times I was really angry at comp sci staff was on discovering that they hadn't run generated the databases from the man pages to allow man -k to work
15:29<Wooly>does anyone know of a command line download accelerator that supports https?
15:29<the-me>Wooly, wget`
15:29<mordy_>hmm.... lsof /dev/sdb2 shows nothing
15:29<Wooly>the-me: i didn't think wget did multiple http connections?
15:29*mordy_ is trying to wonder why he can't unmount this disk
15:30<_phoenix_>stew there are plety of tutorials in the net how to install it but noone how to start
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15:30<the-me>mordy_, do it on the mountpoint
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15:31<mordy_>lsof /dir/* would give me what i want?
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15:33<stew>_phoenix_: "dpkg -L packagename | grep man" should show you the manpages in a package
15:34<Wooly>does anyone know if axel supports https?
15:34<gnufan>_mordy_ do you have /dev/sdb2 as a device ? maybe it's not mounted
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15:34<mordy_>it's mounted
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15:34<mordy_>it's a partition
15:34<stew>Wooly: i doubt it, since it doesn't depend on either openssl or gnutls
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15:35<Wooly>hmm ok
15:35<Guest1500>i have a nvidia 2 gfx card in an old computer whenever i run pidgin it ends with an error that says opengl is only supported on cpus that have sse what should i do ?
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15:37<gnufan>mordy try lsof on the mountpoint
15:37<mordy_>i hate it when i can't unmount something and have no idea why
15:37<mordy_>/dev/sdb2 is a partition which i chrooted into - could it be i need to do something there?
15:37<stew>mordy_: "fuser -m /mount/point" will list all the processes
15:38-!-AMD [] has joined #debian
15:38<mordy_>returns nothing
15:39<AMD>I am running debian via vmware and when someone uplods to be the speed is crap how can i check what network card its using? I looked in networking and it just says eth0
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15:39<gnufan>mordy try chrooted into really root / and then try lsof
15:39<Guest1500>can some one help me with my nvidia GF2 problems please?
15:40<mordy_>you mean lsof /mountpoint/root?
15:40<mordy_>or chroot ina different terminal
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15:41-!-Guest1500 is now known as LinuxUser
15:41<LinuxUser>Is there a way to use opengl on nvidia without having sse support?
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15:42<FILLVAIO2><stew> Stew :) I have done downgrade!
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15:43<gnufan>mordy when i login my root device is /dev/sda1 than i mount /dev/sda2 and chroot to it. I suggest chroot to /dev/sda1/ and attempt lsof It's stupid idea but...
15:43<FILLVAIO2><stew> Thank you for safe my server!!! :) ANd for all! I do very important work!
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15:44<stew>FILLVAIO2: you might want to check the output of 'apt-show-versions' to see that you really downgraded everything. note that some things might be broken
15:44<mordy_>gnufan - tried lsof while i was chrooted
15:44<mordy_>only thing that shows up is bash
15:45<mordy_>and that disappears once i log out of that system
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15:46<mordy_>haven't had a stubborn case like this for a whiel
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15:53<fer>ola alguien de andalucia
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15:53<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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15:58<computer>going back to ubuntu :(
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15:59<computer>debian is a lot faster but it doesnt find any of my drivers
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15:59<gnufan>mordy does you use lstat,readlink or stat functions ? lsoft shows nothing if it's blocked. Lsoft can be blocked by some kernel functions that it uses - lstat,readlink and stat. Try stopping processes using that functions
16:00<computer>man i so pissed!
16:00<computer>oh well, i will smoke a joint before i go :)
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16:00<stew>debian should not be significantly different from a performance perspective. except ubuntu should probably boot significantly faster becuase they use dash as sh
16:00<computer>a "bowl"
16:01<mordy_>gnufan - can you give me a one liner with those?
16:01<mordy_>never used them
16:01<computer>half hour to go b4 i go to work :(
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16:02<FILLVAIO2><stew> some pockets which i have install when in etch version apsent newer version. Such as php and etc ;)
16:02<stew>computer: what drivers are you not finding?
16:02<gnufan>of course but i'm reading man page and it tells that you should try lsof -b /bla
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16:03<computer>have u guys ever thought that you might just be chatting with an A.I irc bot in this channel or any other channel? how can you tell? hehe :)
16:03<mordy_>lsof -b /mountpoint? gives me a bunch of garbage and then usage
16:03<computer>wireless, sound, graphics, etc
16:04<stew>computer: did you install the 2.6.24 kernel?
16:04<computer>stew, give me the exact name so i can install
16:04<stew>same as the last 3 times i told you
16:04<stew>computer: linux-image-2.6.24-etchnhalf.1-686
16:04<computer>but most likely i will be going back to ubuntu
16:04<gnufan>mordy sorry but lsof uses lstat,readlink and stat. So you can change timeout like lsof -S [t] where t in seconds minimum 2 try
16:05<stew>computer: is there anything we can help you with then?
16:05<computer>stew, just your presence is good enough
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16:06<mordy_>ahh... i get it, basically lsof checks those files for recent changes
16:06<computer>synaptic shows linux-image-2.6.24-etchnhalf.1-686 installed? wtf?!
16:06<mordy_>but used a timeout of 60
16:07<mordy_>nothing still
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16:08<gnufan>mordy does your problem disappear ?
16:09<mordy_>well, i'mm learning a bit about how lsof works
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16:09<mordy_>but i still can't unmount this damn thing or finding what's blocking it
16:09<computer>i am going back to ubuntu tonight when i get home from work
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16:10<FILLVAIO2>Respect to <stew>! BYE!
16:10<computer>atleast ubuntu finds ALL my drivers
16:10<computer>stew, u r cool, thanks for trying
16:10<gnufan>mordy maybe lsof -O will work
16:10<Maulkin>computer: Have you quite finished complaining?
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16:11<mordy_>hmm no such option
16:11<dr|z3d>computer: What are you still doing running debian. Ubuntu is calling :)
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16:11<Maulkin>computer: (that's a hint to stop, by the way)
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16:12<computer>hehe when i get back from work tonight.
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16:12<computer>mau, sorry
16:12<stew>computer: or try #moocows or #debian-offtopic if you want off-topic social chat
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16:12<computer>stew thats off topic itself
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16:13<computer>stew i hope u r in there?
16:13<computer>in the channel
16:13<gnufan>mordy strange...does fuser work ?
16:14<mordy_>no - maybe i'll read the manpage on that too
16:14<mordy_>would the +f/-f options help me with lsof?
16:14<computer>stew i give u mad props for helpng poeple. u r cool as f!@#k
16:14<stew>mordy_: did you try "fuser -m mountpoint"?
16:14<mordy_>yeah, nothing is being returned
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16:14<computer>ok i shut up now and smoke my bowl ;)
16:15<mordy_>i got this when i did fuser -m /mountpoint/*
16:15<mordy_>/mnt/debootstrap-i686/proc: 2751 2762 2981 3221 3355 13011c
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16:16<gnufan>mordy this is list of PID's as i understand
16:16<stew>mordy_: so that is showing you 6 different processes
16:16-!-mastroquet__ [] has joined #debian
16:16<mordy_>let me do a grep for those pids
16:16<computer>stew rules
16:16<mordy_>or is there a way for it to print out the actual names
16:17<mordy_>and apparently those pids are attached to mountpoint/proc?
16:17<stew>computer: please stop
16:17<computer>yes master
16:17<mordy_>oy gevald
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16:18<mordy_>well, i looked up the processes, it's the same output as that of lsof /mountpoint/*
16:19<mordy_>but the processes are rather strange for a mountpoint - acpi and sensors?
16:19<mordy_>and hald
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16:21<mordy_>i fixed it, i unmounted /mountpoint/proc
16:21<computer>what is the differance between debian and ubuntu?
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16:21<mordy_>my question is why it wasn't showing up in mount -l
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16:22<computer>is because ubuntu has non-free packages?
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16:23<computer>or what?
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16:24*computer falls asleep
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16:25<stew>mordy_: were you running mount from inside or outside of the chroot?
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16:25<mordy_>well, i was running mount from inside the chroot
16:26<mordy_>but i thought it would unmount once i exited from the chroot
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16:26<computer>i guess u have to unmount b4 u exit.
16:27<stew>mordy_: mount looks at /etc/mtab, and /etc/mtab inside the chroot wouldn't have been altered when you ran mount from outside the chroot
16:27<computer>never mind
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16:27<stew>mordy_: (afaik)
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16:28<mordy_>lol, i'm trying to figure out how the mounting process works. i was under the impression that mounting was system-specific, and that when i mounted from inside the chroot (which is what i did) it wouldn't affect anything outside of the chroot
16:29<mordy_>or maybe it's less about how mount works and more about how proc works
16:29<mordy_>since mounting proc essentially means "mounting" (?) all the connected hardware
16:29<stew>mordy_: hmm, yeah, it does look at /proc/mounts too.
16:30<mordy_>in any event i'm back to a hanging grub
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16:33<stew>mordy_: grub is hanging? or is it booting a kernel which is hanging?
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16:33<mordy_>grub itself is hanging. all i see is the word "GRUB" on the screen
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16:34<stew>mordy_: have you tried re-running grub-install?
16:34<mordy_>well, the question would be from where to run it
16:35<mordy_>should i run it from within chroot or outside of it?
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16:37<stew>mordy_: it should be possible to do with either. if you run it from outside, you'd definately need the --root-directory option.
16:37<stew>mordy_: is /boot on a separate partition or not?
16:37<mordy_>i can change the partition though
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16:39<mordy_>so grub-install --root-directory=/boot/grub?
16:40<stew>mordy_: is /boot on the same partition as / ?
16:40<stew>mordy_: if so, then root-directory would be /
16:40<mordy_>it's all in a single partition
16:41<stew>mordy_: grub looks for $root-directory/boot/grub
16:41<stew>and failing that, for $root-directory/grub
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16:42<mordy_>ok - that worked fine
16:42<mordy_>stew - now update-grub from within chroot?
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16:47<mordy_>how do i make it automatically configure a menu.lst?
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16:52<stew>mordy_: run update-grub from inside the chroot
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16:55<mordy_>stew: - for some reason it's not generating a menu.lst file
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16:56<mordy_>maybe it's placing the menu.lst elsewhere
16:57<mordy_>i just get this line from update-grub Searching for GRUB installation directory ... found: /boot/grub
16:58<mordy_>but grub doesn't hang anymore
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17:00<mordy_>i'm guessing it's not updated due to something perhaps in kernel-img.conf?
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17:15<FILLVAIO2>Hi <stew>, are you still alive here? :)
17:15-!-zara_ is now known as zara
17:15<FILLVAIO2>!dpkg php5.2.8?
17:15-!-Sub-Zero [~desk@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:16<FILLVAIO2>Does anybody know anything about php5.2.8 for etch?
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17:22<stew>FILLVAIO2: what about it?
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17:23<stew>judd: info php5 --release etch
17:23<judd>stew: php5 (web): is optional; Version: 5.2.0-8+etch13; Size: 1.0k; Installed: 20k -- server-side, HTML-embedded scripting language (meta-package)
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17:23<stew>oh, i misread 5.2.8
17:23<stew>FILLVAIO2: debian doesn't have any packages of 5.2.8 currently
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17:26<FILLVAIO2><stew> I see. WHat about I have installed previously it's distr before some-crashing and downgrading, and there haven't errors with SigFault in apache2 error log. But now i have it again. ANy ideas?
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17:28<dpkg>[deb] the extension for debian precompiled packages
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17:29<stew>FILLVAIO2: i haven't looked at dotdeb in a long time. we definately used to try to steer people away from dotdeb in here becuase of the historically low quality of their packages
17:32-!-Worf [] has joined #debian
17:32<FILLVAIO2>so. But who is writing new packages? I really have proves of erorrs in gdlib of etch which crashes apache2
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17:32<stew>FILLVAIO2: have you filed a bug?
17:32<FILLVAIO2>i told about php module libgd
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17:33<FILLVAIO2>i can
17:33<stew>FILLVAIO2: it doens't sound like the type of bug that woud be fixed in a stable release
17:33<stew>FILLVAIO2: if you know of a bug that is not yet reported, please report it: /msg dpkg reportbug
17:33-!-Aura_Cabarcas [~Aucabarca@] has joined #debian
17:33<FILLVAIO2><stew> i what form? free?
17:34<FILLVAIO2>ok i will. I hope this bug will be removed soon.
17:35<mordy_>does this look like a good menu.lst?
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17:35<mordy_>i've just been pulling this HD in and out so much that i'm trying to avoid more trial runs
17:35<FILLVAIO2><stew> I want to recompile apache2 from manual at page , and what is debian command debuild?
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17:36<FILLVAIO2><stew> dpgk didn't know that
17:37<FILLVAIO2><stew> but it's for compile i think
17:37<kingsley>Is /etc/modules.conf ignored by version 2.6 of the kernel?
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17:38<FILLVAIO2><stew> and how is quick reaction on such bugs reported into [dpkg] bot? you know?
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17:43<FILLVAIO2>Helloo? Guys! In moscow now is 1:42 am :) what time of your region? WAKE UP :) Don't sleep!
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17:44<FILLVAIO2><stew> are you sleeping now?
17:44<valdyn>kingsley: no, but by the module-init-tools
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17:51<kingsley>valdyn: Can you elaborate?
17:52<valdyn>kingsley: modprobe ignores /etc/modules.conf
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17:53<avtobiff>hi there
17:54<avtobiff>we have a problem with alsa and an soundblaster audigy le (ca0106 module)
17:54<avtobiff>sorry, audigy se.
17:55<avtobiff>thing is. it doesn't give any sound on the digital out anymore. it has done so earlier, but it was always a hastle to get it working. we also have a built-in card (snd_hda_intel) which we never have used.
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17:56<avtobiff>so earlier, we used to run alsaconf right before booting the box. then spdif worked splendid. we then put the line options snd_hda_intel index=-2 in /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base trying to get the card not to capture slot 0. it worked one time.
17:57<avtobiff>now the audigy card doesn't give any output, even with the things that worked earlier. does anyone have any idea on how to solve this?
17:57<avtobiff>or debug at least
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18:00<_phoenix_>wahts the default messenger for debian?
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18:01<_phoenix_>anyone here?
18:01<mutante>i dont think there is a default
18:01<EmleyMoor>I am no longer getting sound from realplayer(32)
18:01<mutante>personally i would use "Psi"
18:01<mutante>a jabber client
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18:02<cheal>avtobiff: since when?
18:02<_phoenix_>whats the typical messenger for debian
18:02<avtobiff>cheal, what? :)
18:02<mutante>_phoenix_: do you want console or GUI?
18:02<avtobiff>cheal, it worked yesterday. it doesn't work today.
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18:03<avtobiff>it gives audio in analogue
18:03<mutante>_phoenix_: apt-cache search jabber
18:03<_phoenix_>mutante GUI
18:03<cheal>avtobiff: what changed since yesterday?
18:03<avtobiff>cheal, nothing
18:03<mutante>_phoenix_: apt-cache show psi
18:04<avtobiff>cheal, now we have changed a lot back and forth trying to debug but at first nothing had changed (except the general state of the entire world etc, but nothing with the computer setup)
18:04<_phoenix_>psi is only for jabber isnt it?
18:04<mutante>jabber has gateways to other IM networks on the servers, not in the clients
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18:05<cheal>avtobiff: which Debian suite do you use?
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18:05<avtobiff>cheal, we use testing
18:05<mutante>so you find a jabber server with the gateways you want
18:05<mutante>your client only needs to support jabber
18:05<avtobiff>cheal, and we haven't upgraded anything in between
18:05<EmleyMoor>Sound works in everything except realplayer
18:05<_phoenix_>psi is only for jabber isnt it? mutante
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18:05<mutante>_phoenix_: what else are you looking for
18:06<mutante>_phoenix_: talking with ICQ people should work
18:07<cheal>avtobiff: are you sure the hardware didn't break?
18:07<mutante>_phoenix_: as i said, the jabber server you use provides you with gateways to ICQ and other networks, not the client, thats whats cool about Jabber
18:07<avtobiff>cheal, no, but the card gives out on the analogue
18:08<_phoenix_>ill try
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18:09<cheal>avtobiff: well, hardware unfortunately doesn't always break frankly, in a binary way
18:09<EmleyMoor>Has a 64 bit realplayer been released yet?
18:10<avtobiff>cheal, :)
18:10<avtobiff>cheal, do you think that heat can have something to do with it?
18:10<avtobiff>cheal, and do you know why maybe?
18:10<_phoenix_>how do i connect to msn?
18:10<avtobiff>cheal, because the soundcard sits next to a nvidia gfx-card
18:10<mutante>test the card with a Windows Live CD?
18:11<avtobiff>cheal, and maybe it gets hot. but still...
18:11<cheal>avtobiff: I saw CPUs break due to heat, but never sound cards
18:11<mutante>eh, the soundblaster audigy thing
18:11<cheal>avtobiff: I'd be very surprised if that was the cause.
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18:12<mutante>_phoenix_: google for Jabber servers with MSN gateways, i dont know if they exist at the moment
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18:13<kingsley>valdyn: OK, thanks.
18:13<mutante>_phoenix_: when connected to a jabber server with Psi, use "Service Discovery" to find out which gateways or services the server offers... like see what has first
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18:17<mutante>isnt there a way to use "captive" or something to use the original windows driver file for the soundblaster, like i saw them doing it for ntfs support
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18:23<_phoenix_>you dont realy have a clue about IM do you?
18:23<stew>_phoenix_: who are you talking to?
18:24<stew>_phoenix_: or, can you ask a better question?
18:24<EmleyMoor>_phoenix_: What, exactly do you want to achieve
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18:24<_phoenix_>whats the typical messenger of debian?
18:25<stew>_phoenix_: for what?
18:25<RichiH>pidgin, kopete
18:25<stew>_phoenix_: there are many
18:25<EmleyMoor>There is no typical
18:25<_phoenix_>what do you recomend?
18:25<stew>_phoenix_: whom are you sending messages to?
18:26<stew>_phoenix_: is there a particular protocol you want to use?
18:26<avtobiff>cheal, one other strange thing is that the amplifier seems to get a signal because it changes mode to dts and "neo:6 cinema" when we play a sound file and output it on the spdif. but it doesn't play the audio.
18:26<EmleyMoor>I use to use ayttm, before I got everything working through Jabber, since which I have used psi
18:26<_phoenix_>jabber icq and i have to use msn
18:27<_phoenix_>some dude in this channel has said i should use psi....
18:27<EmleyMoor>If you can ind the transports it will all work through Jabber, and psi is a great client
18:27<avtobiff>cheal, and we have tried another digital input on the amplifier (no sound there either but the same behaviour with setting modes).
18:27<EmleyMoor>find, even
18:28<stew>_phoenix_: gaim/pidgin
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18:34<EmleyMoor>Sound works, except in realplayer (in a chroot)
18:34<EmleyMoor>What would cause that?
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18:35<_phoenix_>stew is there a stable version of pidgin?
18:35<stew>_phoenix_: in backports, but not in etch itself: /msg dpkg bpo
18:36<stew>EmleyMoor: is /dev/ populated in the chroot?
18:37<EmleyMoor>stew: I will check - but it certainly was as it used to work
18:37<_phoenix_>but i wanna have stabel packets stew
18:38<EmleyMoor>You can't have what isn't there
18:38<stew>_phoenix_: pidgin isn't in stable, becuase it didn't exist when the current stable was frozen
18:39-!-mode/#debian [+l 351] by debhelper
18:39<upsy>_phoenix_: get gaim instead then
18:39<_phoenix_>when will it become stable?
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18:39<stew>_phoenix_: when will what becuase stable? the next debian release?
18:39<upsy>when lenny is stable
18:40<stew>_phoenix_: lenny will release (with pidgin included) whenever it is free of release critical bugs: /msg dpkg rc bugs
18:40-!-reneger [] has quit [Quit: reneger]
18:41*EmleyMoor suspects recent messing about towards ekiga 3 has broken this...
18:42<Maulkin>When the green line gets to 0
18:43<EmleyMoor>Even backing that out hasn't helped
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18:44<EmleyMoor>No, I must be missing something realplayer (and possibly other 32-bit sound apps) needs
18:45<_phoenix_>stew please please please tell me how i can use pptp.... i realy have tried
18:46<stew>_phoenix_: read the docs in /usr/share/doc/pptp-linux, i don't remember
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18:48<EmleyMoor>How can I find what I am missing for realplayer to work?
18:49-!-jtaji [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:49<EmleyMoor>(it runs but there is no sound)
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18:50<_phoenix_>stew what data is it?
18:50<stew>_phoenix_: what?
18:50<_phoenix_>philipp@hufnagl:~$ cd /usr/share/doc/pptp-linux
18:50<_phoenix_>philipp@hufnagl:/usr/share/doc/pptp-linux$ ls
18:50<_phoenix_>AUTHORS copyright PORTING README.Reference
18:50<_phoenix_>changelog.Debian.gz DESIGN.CALLMGR README TODO.gz
18:50<_phoenix_>changelog.gz DESIGN.PPTP README.Debian USING
18:50-!-_phoenix_ was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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18:52<_phoenix_>okey... next problem... where can i get a java plugin for ephiphany
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18:54<_phoenix_>okey... next problem... where can i get a java plugin for ephiphany
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18:57<_phoenix_>come on... i need a javaplugin
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19:02<dr|z3d>_phoenix_: apt-cache search java
19:02<EmleyMoor>cd /dev
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19:03<stew>_phoenix_: assuming you are running the i386 arch, and you still don't wan to use backports, youd have to enable the non-free repositories and install sun-java5-plugin
19:04<EmleyMoor>If I try to use /dev/dsp in the chroot I get Device or resource busy
19:04<stew>EmleyMoor: "fuser /dev/dsp /dev/snd/*" should tell you what is using it
19:04<stew>which you might need to run outside the chroot
19:04<EmleyMoor>(or even not in it!)
19:05<_phoenix_>stew... non free... great...
19:05<EmleyMoor>Only controlC0 is in use
19:05<_phoenix_>but it is stable?
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19:07<EmleyMoor>It's as if OSS compatibility has left
19:07-!-watcher77 [] has joined #debian
19:08<stew>_phoenix_: yes, unfortunately it is more stable than it should be, since that version has lots of known security problems
19:08-!-Garda [~garda@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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19:08<_phoenix_>security problems?
19:08<_phoenix_>stew security problems?
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19:10<_phoenix_>stew does it means they steal datas from my pc?
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19:10<stew>_phoenix_: i don't konw, i haven't looked too closely.
19:10<stew>MARTIN: hi. is there something we can help you with?
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19:11<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
19:11<EmleyMoor>/dev/dsp simply won't open
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19:11<_phoenix_>okey... ill use a backport and a open source java
19:11<_phoenix_>how do i manage that?
19:12<EmleyMoor>Nothing is using it
19:12<stew>EmleyMoor: permissions?
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19:13<_phoenix_>stew how do i install java unstable without setting unstable as default
19:13<EmleyMoor>stew: Permissions are correct
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19:14<EmleyMoor>(audio group and I am in it)
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19:15<_phoenix_>stew how do i install java unstable without setting unstable as default
19:15<EmleyMoor>alsa works but that is no help for this problem
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19:19<adama>_phoenix_: I think change your sources.list to unstable, apt-get update, apt-get install java (+deps), then change back to etch and apt-get update
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19:22<blarson>!tell _phoenix_ about pinning
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19:24<EmleyMoor>how can I restore access to /dev/dsp? There is nothing ovious wrong
19:24<_phoenix_>blarson after reading that crap there is one qustion left
19:24<_phoenix_>wtf ist pinning
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19:26<blarson>_phoenix_: pinning is a way to have multiple releases in your sources.list and select which release you get per package.
19:26<dr|z3d>pinning is ensuring an application is available on all virtual desktops.
19:26<dr|z3d>Ah. Or that.
19:28<_phoenix_>does it work with aptitude too?
19:28<Txt-file1>_phoenix_: sure
19:29<dr|z3d>aptitude, apt-get, dselect, synaptic..
19:29-!-ubuntu [] has joined #debian
19:29<Txt-file1>take what you want, there are not many differences between the programms :)
19:30<EmleyMoor>I'm seeing "device or resource busy" when I try to use /dev/dsp
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19:30<EmleyMoor>Nothing is using it and permissions are good
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19:30<_phoenix_>have i to edit the configs or to add it additonaly?
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19:42<enouf>EmleyMoor: fuser -m /dev/snd ; and lsof | egrep 'esd|arts|flash|fire|poop|ice'
19:42<enouf>as root
19:43<enouf>EmleyMoor: fuser -m /dev/snd/*
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19:44<enouf>EmleyMoor: is alsa-oss installed? and does lsmod | egrep 'snd_pcm_oss|snd_mixer_oss' show results?
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19:45<enouf>EmleyMoor: check it
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19:50<RrodolfoS>hi!!, i try to create a deb package of systemimager and fail for the asm/page.h kernel file??, somebody know to solve it???
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19:52<dpkg>Please search for things rather than just asking: 'apt-cache search regex'. Find which package owns a file: 'dpkg -S /bin/foo' or 'aptitude install apt-file; apt-file update; apt-file search foo'. Use or '/msg dpkg find filename' if you're already here. '/msg dpkg listkeys <thing>' to find factoids containing <thing>. See
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20:00<EmleyMoor>Still no joy with oss - all so far checks out but nothing works
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20:01<EmleyMoor>Is there some package not already mentioned I need to make it work?
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20:03<valessio>hi all, because this not compiling? , somebody can help me?
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20:04<valessio>ok, I find that it lacked to the package libboost-iostreams-dev.
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20:12<EmleyMoor>Of those programs that access /dev/dsp, which ones block it up?
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20:14*EmleyMoor is off
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20:36<dpkg>If you want to laugh, use heh or hah or bwahahaha. lol doesn't sound like laughter at all and makes you look like an AOL user.
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20:36<Vezzu>tem br nessa porra ?
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20:36<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
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21:03<seeker>i have a doc in openoffice and am trying to print it. it sees the printer and sends to the printer queue but it does not print why
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21:08<seeker>hi phil
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21:08<seeker>hi githogori
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21:08<seeker>hi dvs
21:09*dvs looks around
21:09<dvs>Please don't tell me the next release is going to be called "britney"
21:09<seeker>dvs know anything about printers
21:09<abrotman>seeker: does anything else print ?
21:10<abrotman>and stop greeting everyone .. it's creepy
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21:10<seeker>i do not know have not sent anything else. it prints from my windows box
21:11<abrotman>seeker: does anything else print ?
21:11<dr|z3d>Sounds like a driver issue.
21:11<seeker>just a minute
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21:12<rene->i am having problems with debian
21:12<rene->my upload speeds are dismal
21:12<rene->i upgraded to lenny but problem is there
21:13<rene->download speeds are very good
21:13<rene->what can i do?
21:13<seeker>i just sent this chat to printer and nothing.
21:13<kristianpaul>is not debian
21:13<dr|z3d>That would likely be the nature of your connection, rene-
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21:13<dr|z3d>rene-: ADSL is called ADSL for a reason. Speeds are asymmetric.
21:13<rene->well it wasnt happening
21:14<seeker>drjz3d how do i check printer for correct drivers
21:14<rene->i have a canopy 10 meg link
21:14<dr|z3d>seeker: Did you supply a ppd?
21:14<rene->asymmetric indeed, downloads are 3500kbps uploads are 10kbps when they do not stall
21:14<kristianpaul>rene-: that canopy a is framerelay ?
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21:15<seeker>drjz3d: newby at this what is a ppd
21:15<rene->well it is a branch office, we have a fiber ring man but that office is the ugly duck so they only have a canopy link to the corporate network
21:15<dr|z3d>seeker: It's a printer definition file.
21:15<seeker>drjz3d: where would i find that
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21:16<dr|z3d>seeker: Printer manufacturer. You might need to download windows drivers.
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21:17<seeker>drjz3d: might be in trouble then i have gone to brother site and they have no linux/debian drivers for this printer
21:17<kristianpaul>rene-: try a self test on the canopy, i bet for signal problems
21:17<rene->the provider did just that today
21:17<rene->it apparently is flawless
21:18<dr|z3d>seeker: That's why you might need to download windows drivers and extract the ppd. You should google around, doubtless there are solutions online.
21:18<rene->i might stick another non debian computer behind the canopy and see if debian is the culprit but
21:18<rene->right now i feel like toggling a magic switch that will make it go away hehe
21:19<seeker>drjz3d: thanks i will give it a try
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21:20<kristianpaul>rene-: good luck
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21:21<rene->i will put the nondebian comp behind it, and i will also try with debian and an ADSL link
21:21<rene->should be slow but not stall
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21:24<kristianpaul>rene-: check the net-link appliance also
21:25-!-dvs [] has quit [Quit: See ya!]
21:26<rene->kristianpaul: what do u mean with net-link appliance
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21:27<kristianpaul>rene-: sorry, the canopy
21:28<kristianpaul>rene-: ny english is no so good
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21:29<rene->oh dont worry
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21:34<rene->what i see using bmon the traffic monitor is that my upload speed is very bad
21:34<rene->but only on TCP things
21:35<rene->i am doing Voip
21:35<rene->using the same canopy
21:35<rene->and quality is flawless
21:36<rene->that is what is more intriguing about it all
21:36<rene->UDP works very well
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23:55<superjet_busy>when make easystroke deb with cdbs, dpkg-buildpackage failed due to using `g++ -g -Wall -O2 -Os -MT actiondb.o -MMD -MP -MF actiondb.Po -o actiondb.o -c`, however run make directly work using `g++ -Wall `pkg-config gtkmm-2.4 gthread-2.0 dbus-glib-1 --cflags` -Os -MT actiondb.o -MMD -MP -MF actiondb.Po -o actiondb.o -c`, how to correct it?
23:57-!-lnievas [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:58<kingsley>superjet_busy: Perhaps you could search Google's indices for the exact error message, or, cut down the build to isolate the exact option that breaks it.
---Logclosed Wed Dec 17 00:00:43 2008