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#debian IRC Logs for 2009-01-03

---Logopened Sat Jan 03 00:00:45 2009
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00:01<oipunx>!dpkg 64bit java plugin
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00:06<blarson>oipunx: That should be /msg dpkg ...
00:06<oipunx>heh ok thanks
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00:11<jaybocc2>D [03/Jan/2009:07:15:20 -0600] Print-Job
00:11<jaybocc2>D [03/Jan/2009:07:15:20 -0600] print_job: request file type is application/vnd.cups-raw.
00:11<jaybocc2>D [03/Jan/2009:07:15:20 -0600] add_job: requesting-user-name="jaybocc2"
00:11<jaybocc2>D [03/Jan/2009:07:15:20 -0600] Adding default job-sheets values "none,none"...
00:11<jaybocc2>I [03/Jan/2009:07:15:20 -0600] Adding start banner page "none" to job 27.
00:11<jaybocc2>D [03/Jan/2009:07:15:20 -0600] Discarding unused job-created event...
00:11<jaybocc2>I [03/Jan/2009:07:15:20 -0600] Adding end banner page "none" to job 27.
00:11<jaybocc2>I [03/Jan/2009:07:15:20 -0600] Job 27 queued on "hpcolor1215" by "jaybocc2".
00:11-!-jaybocc2 was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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00:12<jaybocc2>how do i use parserbot
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00:18<jaybocc2>typing lpstat -p froze my console :(
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00:20<newsense>tripwire suggests moving the binary to non writable media, should i move the binary to an sd card and just make a symlink ito it ?
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00:23<oipunx>has anyone try the 64bit java by sun?
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00:29<newsense>anyone know how to setup tripwire ?
00:30<newsense>man pages suck for it btw
00:30<newsense>i setup the passphrases and ran tripwire --init than tripwire --check which says no db
00:32<newsense>nm for some reason it worked the fourth time
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01:30<willemb>Hi. I have both libdvdread3 and libdvdcss2 installed. I successfully copied the video_ts directory from one of my dvd's and the local copies play fine. However, when I try to do the same on another, all I get is IO errors. Why?
01:30<sime>maybe the media is corrupted
01:31<willemb>I thought so too, but the dvd plays fine in my set-top dvd player.
01:31<sime>on a dvd player it will only glitch but when you copy it bit by bit it wont let go any error
01:31<willemb>refuses to play or copy on either my lenny laptop or my ubuntu 8.10 mediacentre
01:32<goodger>willemb: try a third/fourth/fifth disc and see if they work
01:32<willemb>Interesting. I have tried 3 disks in a row
01:32<sime>I have a strange solution for corrupted DVD
01:33<sime>feel it or not..gently polish the disc with touthpaste
01:33<goodger>(with a cloth, not a toothbrush)
01:33<willemb>The working disk was polished before I bought it, the rest are rentals that I won't get a chance to watch before my lease expires
01:33<goodger>then rinse carefully
01:33<willemb>all are region 2
01:33<sime>goodger, you do that too?
01:34<enouf>yeah .. but it's likely bad sectors and content protection mechanisms - er, mplayer the DVD prior to trying to cp maybe .. don't ask
01:34<willemb>I am kind of hesitant to do that to a rented dvd
01:34<goodger>yeah, but it seldom works
01:34<goodger>it has once rescued a CD
01:35<goodger>but that was only after I applied hair gel...
01:35<sime>willemb, the rental will like the fresh breathe of the movie
01:35<enouf>you could just loop mount it and copy it all into an ISO using dd or whatever
01:36<goodger>in that instance, disc corruption will be revealed
01:36<willemb>wouldn't that take longer than watching the video?
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01:37<enouf>try dvdrip on them too - or vobcopy or something
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01:37<willemb>first time I hear of vobcopy.
01:38<willemb>I did a mplayer dvd:
01:38-!-cydork [~cydoork@] has joined #debian
01:38<willemb>then quit mplayer and did a command line copy in stead of a drag and drop
01:38<willemb>holding thumbs
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01:39<goodger>holding... thumbs? :S
01:40<ptt>hi there . can anyone read this.?
01:40<goodger>ptt: if you refer to your message, I can read it
01:41<willemb>Googling a bit, it seems that it's actually a German phrase that is the equivalent to "crossed fingers"
01:41<ptt>yes tank you goodger
01:41<goodger>yes, that makes sense. just never heard it before
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01:42<willemb>I never realized that it is propbably only in South Africa that it is a common phrase.
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01:43<enouf>!wb cydork
01:43<dpkg>O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! cydork has returned!
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01:45<cydork>enouf, thanks :)
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01:49<enouf>cydork: ;-)
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01:52<newsense>enouf, installed tripwire but when i try to run tripwire --update i get errors saying the file could not be opened, googled it and cant fiure it out
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01:52<newsense>## Error: File could not be opened.
01:52<newsense>### Filename: /var/lib/tripwire/report/devious-20090103-005116.twr
01:53<newsense>though there is a .twr file in that dir just not the one its looking for
01:54<goodger>looks like a timestamp to me... 00:51:16
01:54<goodger>3rd january 2009...
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01:58<enouf>[00:28:33] <newsense> i setup the passphrases and ran tripwire --init than tripwire --check which says no db
01:58<enouf>[00:30:18] <newsense> nm for some reason it worked the fourth time
01:58<enouf>newsense: looked in /usr/share/doc/tripwire ?
01:58<newsense>i seen that with the init option
01:58<enouf>dpkg -L tripwire
01:58<dpkg>ii tripwire 3.5-4.2 enouf's private stamp collection
01:58<newsense>took 4 times
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01:59<newsense>enouf, thanks, ill file a bug report if it happens,
02:00<newsense>maybe it takes while to build the db, ill check for bg processes
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02:09<TutorFree>Olá a todos!
02:11<goodger>olá! english here please, or español in #debian-es
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02:12<TutorFree>Preciso de ajuda relativa a sincronia de som e vídeo no GTK-recordMydesktop no Ubuntu Studio, alguém pode me ajudar?
02:13<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
02:13<goodger>oh, wait
02:13<goodger>TutorFree: #ubuntu on no ubuntu here
02:14<TutorFree>Já fui no canal RC de lá, mas não tive solução de imediato
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02:15<TutorFree>Não falo inglês, nem espanhol. E o pior, tô no Japão, sem saber o idioma também, rs...
02:15<goodger>Nosotros no apoyamos de Ubuntu aquí. Por favor, ir a canal #ubuntu en
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02:16<TutorFree>io já estive en canal del ubuntu
02:16<TutorFree>tá, voltarei aqui quando instalar o Debian Etch.
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02:17<goodger>por favor, usted debe hablar Inglés aquí
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02:18<TutorFree>ok. sorry.
02:18<goodger>that's ok
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02:19*goodger smacks head
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02:19<goodger>stupid... languages...
02:20<lsf08syf0sy>hey. looks like i have qt version 4.2.1 installed and i need to have 4.3. i'm not sure what package i'm looking for specifically. this sound familiar to anyone?
02:21<goodger>lsffdjgkjdfhkdfjgh: you're looking for libqt4-(various_things)
02:21<dpkg>You don't NEED an application. You definitely don't NEED a game or site. You do not NEED a shell. You do not NEED to get a ban lifted. You NEED food. So go and buy your food, and if you feel that you absolutely NEED a program, we suggest that you go and buy that too while you're out. You do need beer, though.
02:21<goodger>enouf: am I the only one for whom dpkg isn't working?
02:22<enouf>registered and ident'd?
02:22-!-lsf08syf0sy is now known as lobbert
02:22<dpkg>dpkg is, like, the program used by debian to install and remove packages, "man dpkg". Also ask me about <apt howto>. The main info bot in #debian is also called dpkg; ask me about <dpkgbot>.
02:22<dpkg>wine is, like, packaged in the 'wine' package., #winehq ( Stands for Wine Is Not an Emulator. A not so buggy anymore alternative win32 API, or a tasty alcoholic beverage.
02:23<goodger> /msg dpkg also doesn't do anything
02:23<willemb>Can anyone tell me why Dawn of War is crappily slow under wine?
02:23<lobbert>does this look like a qt error?
02:24<goodger>lobbert: looks like an error in vidalia (?) to me
02:24<goodger>willemb: do you have hardware accelerated graphics?
02:25<goodger>start with the basics...
02:27<willemb>Goodger: Sorry, it is not THAT slow, just much slower than under vista. Loading between missions are as slow as it was on my p4 with ide disks before I doubled the ram. This mahcine is a core2duo with 2 gigs of ram
02:28<goodger>it will be a virtually-impossible-to-pinpoint bug somewhere in wine...
02:29<goodger>my solution is to dual-boot a stripped-down XP install on which I run games, when I don't want to do any proper computing
02:29<willemb>the same for why my sound sometimes goes byebye if I multitask to another workspace?
02:30<goodger>again, an obscure wine bug, no doubt...
02:30<willemb>thought as much
02:31<willemb>the game works fine, it just loads stupidly slowly between missions
02:31<willemb>i'll live with it since I am halfway into my campaign, and I noticed that somehow my saved games are stored in a different location. Probably somewhere in .wine
02:32<willemb>now that I think about it, it might be the ntfs-3g driver making load times slow
02:32<goodger>ah, that might do it
02:32<goodger>ntfs3g is somewhat suboptimal
02:33<goodger>savegames will be stored within ~/.wine/drive_c/$normal-savegame-place
02:35<willemb>i don't have much of another choice about filesystem now do I? Unless I copy the files to the ext fs?
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02:37<goodger>not for windows vista, it supports ntfs and ntfs only afaik
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04:02<amol>hi to all, i am compiling debian-installer for amd64.i am getting error as E: Couldn't find package acpi-modules-2.6.26-1-amd64-di make[7]: *** [stamps/get_udebs-cdrom_gtk-stamp] Error 100 make[6]: *** [_build] Error 2
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04:11<mgoetze>amol: #debian-boot might be a better channel to ask about that
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04:32<amol>mgoetze, even on debian-bot no response..
04:32<mgoetze>amol: well, they might all be sleeping :)
04:33<mgoetze>amol: you can also write to
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04:33<goodger>statistically, that is the most likely reason...
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04:44<oipunx>has anyone been able to get 64bit java working?
04:44<oipunx>the beta one
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06:38<Bloodkil>hey all
06:38<Bloodkil>need some help with an error
06:39<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
06:40<Bloodkil>i'm having a problem with downloading some applications for debian
06:41<Bloodkil>I get the error: Err etch/main rsync 2.6.9-2
06:41<Bloodkil> 404 Not Found [IP: 80]
06:41<Bloodkil>Failed to fetch 404 Not Found [IP: 80]
06:41<Bloodkil>E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?
06:41<Bloodkil>have can i change the server it downloads from?
06:41-!-Bloodkil was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
06:41<ndowens>hmm this is weird, i installed adobe flash player for firefox and when i goto a flash site it crashes instantly
06:41-!-Bloodkil [] has joined #debian
06:42<cahoot>Bloodkil: /etc/apt/sources.list
06:43<fxiny>Bloodkil: rsync correct versdion is from security
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06:43<Tuplad>where is the cache of epiphany browser being stored ?
06:44<fxiny>Bloodkil: add > deb etch/updates main
06:45<ndowens>why does flashplayer crash firefox
06:45<fxiny>etch ?
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06:45<goodger>ndowens: did you install from a repository?
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06:45<Tuplad>where is the cache of epiphany browser being stored ?
06:47<ndowens>goodger: as soon as the page loads for a sec it crashes instantly
06:47<goodger>Tuplad: ~/.gnome2/epiphany/mozilla/epiphany/Cache
06:47<goodger>don't be so lazy in future
06:47<goodger>ndowens: does this occur on every web page you try?
06:47<ndowens>hmm so far
06:47<Tuplad>goodger: thanks
06:47<Tuplad>goodger: but I couldn't find it
06:47<ndowens>let me try another site
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06:49<ndowens>goodger: yup tried another site and it did the same
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06:50<fxiny>wtf flash version wants ?
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06:51<fxiny>done it : it works
06:51<ndowens>yea trying to watch a video from wwe but can't b/c of the crash
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06:51<fxiny>ndowens: it works . etch firebug 3.0.5
06:51<fxiny>no crash
06:52<fxiny>lemme check official iceweasel
06:52<goodger>I thought that was a firefox extension
06:52<Bloodkil>changed the sources file
06:52<Bloodkil>but still get an error
06:52<Bloodkil>Couldn't stat source package list etch/main Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/
06:52<fxiny>yes , it is : they can't sue me ;)
06:53<goodger>Bloodkil: did you run apt-get update?
06:53<goodger>fxiny: "firebug" is a better name than iceweasel anyway. it more or less sums up the browser
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06:54<fxiny>goodger: i call it icewilly ;)
06:55<fxiny>ndowens: iceweasel (etch version) works as well
06:55<fxiny>so : what flash version are you using ?
06:56<ndowens>well i am on sid or sidux linux. which may be part of it
06:56<fxiny>sidux ?
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06:56<fxiny>you deserve more crash then :P
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06:56<ndowens>it is sid but with fixes
06:56<fxiny>no way
06:56<fxiny>sid is sid . nothing is like sid
06:57<ndowens>works good, this is the only problem so far
06:57<fxiny>could be last atrope version
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06:57<fxiny>deadly atrope :P
06:58<ndowens>did have ubuntu *yuck* and i figured i would try sidux again and it works good.
06:58<umarzuki>hi, how to enable viewing .srt with dragon player?
06:59<ndowens>and sidux is i686 and not i386 so it is pretty fast too
07:00<goodger>however, its flash player doesn't work, and nobody in here can help you, because you're not using debian
07:00<fxiny>works good a damn . look at me : i'm running iceweasel or fireforx on etch , no crash . not yet installed a browser on my lenny .
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07:00<ndowens>hey what do you recommend for backing up a whole system and restore if something happens, like where you cant even boot into linux
07:01<umarzuki>ndowens: clonezilla
07:01<ndowens>ah ty
07:01<umarzuki>it's a live backup cd
07:01<fxiny>based on partimage
07:01<umarzuki>with ncurses
07:02<umarzuki>also have ntfsclone to clone ntfs
07:02<ndowens>goodger: never heard of sidux?
07:02<fxiny>which partimage can back up just fine , anyway clonezilla looks interesting
07:02<ndowens>yea i have vista on this laptop as well, but hardly use it since the newer kernels has the wifi drivers i need
07:03<Bloodkil>how do i log ontp another user account?
07:03<umarzuki>su - user
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07:07<Terry>hi guys, what is debian..?, is this like ubuntu linux or better or just simple?
07:07<fxiny>debian ? never heard of it
07:08<Terry>what is the original size of debian?
07:08<fxiny>Terry: debian is the best
07:08<goodger>debian is the operating system on which ubuntu is (increasingly loosely) based
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07:08<goodger>and yes, it is better
07:08<Terry>where can i find it?
07:08<mgoetze>debian? what's that?
07:09<goodger>Terry: is a good place to start
07:09<Terry>and what is the original it like ubuntu (700mb)?
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07:09<ndowens>hmm which clonezilla to use heh
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07:09<fxiny>ndowens: you mean server or client ?
07:09<Terry>i am there goodger, but when i goto i386, its shows cd1,cd2,cd3...
07:09<Terry>what to download?
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07:10<goodger>Terry: download the netinst one...
07:10<Terry>149mb?, goodger
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07:10<Terry>149mb?, goodger
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07:10<goodger>yes, it downloads your selection of software during the install procedure (pick "desktop", "laptop", "file server", etc)
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07:11<ndowens>fxiny: client, dont have server
07:11<Terry>tell me, goodger?
07:11<goodger>Terry: I just said yes
07:11<Edman>ich habe moin gesacht
07:11<Terry>got it
07:11<goodger>Edman: #debian-de
07:11<mgoetze>edman: falscher channel
07:11<mgoetze>that's , actually
07:11<Terry>can i install it on empty hard drive?, goodger
07:12<mgoetze>Edman: /join
07:12<ndowens>Terry: yes
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07:12<ndowens>Terry: it will tell you how to do it, follow the prompts
07:12<goodger>damn, I've been giving people the wrong channels for hours
07:12<mgoetze>dpkg: tell goodger about de
07:13<fxiny>ndowens: you can use partimage from any decent live cd like sysrrescuecd or grml
07:13<goodger>mgoetze: he doesn't talk to me nowadays...
07:13<dpkg>deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in (auf, oder - German speaking users please go to (on, or DE == Desktop Environment
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07:13<goodger>he doesn't do that either... :(
07:14<goodger>or at least, I don't receive those messages, it might be some crazy server thing
07:14<fxiny>ndowens: or read clonezilla docs , i use partimage since ages , i still have a 2 floppy partimage
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07:14<ndowens>damn fxiny
07:14<ndowens>i've just about forgot about floppies
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07:15<fxiny>ndowens: and static binaries somewhere , partimage and partimage server
07:15<mgoetze>goodger: he wrote it in the channel, so presumably you misconfigured your irc client
07:15<ndowens>dont want to remember horrible floppies
07:15<goodger>mgoetze: nope, my client's configuration is constant...
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07:16<fxiny>ndowens: the problem is : different partimage version can give you troble if you save using version a and you replace using version b .
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07:17<fxiny>so i don't recommend using floppies
07:17<ndowens>yea i dont have floppies anymore lol..
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07:18<fxiny>still useful with old boxes
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07:19<fxiny>i don't want to use that norton ghost floppy
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07:19<enouf>fxiny: !!
07:19<fxiny>enouf: hey !
07:19<enouf>"2: What current hardware/software do you use for hacking? A pile of old 486 boxes for testing and for stable servers and the like"
07:20<enouf>fxiny: ;-0
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07:20<fxiny>enouf: alan ? he's ruling intevil !
07:20<fxiny>enouf: he moved to intevil : good for linux !
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07:21<fxiny>enouf: you read the news ?
07:21<enouf>fxiny: tell the {bloated} application devs! :-)
07:21<fxiny>i'm happy seeing a linux hacker hacking intel from the inside
07:22<fxiny>enouf: so now i can openly s* on red hat , ahahahah no more reasons to referain :)
07:24<ndowens>getting clonezilla
07:25<enouf>fxiny: don't hold back! .. sleeves up! :-p
07:26<mgoetze>doesn't matthew garret work for redhat now?
07:26<mgoetze>garrett, rather
07:27<fxiny>yes it matters , i was just jocking , i do respect red hat
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07:28<fxiny>in the past , when i started , i've seen many small apps/things coming from red hat
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07:29<mgoetze>such as ? ;)
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07:29<fxiny>enouf: sleeves up ? why can't be friend ? ;)
07:31<mgoetze>that whole cobbler thing strikes me as incredibly silly, though ... first they should work on making FAI work well with RPM-based distros, instead of sticking with that stupid kickstart stuff
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07:35<fxiny>sure , red hat is not debian , as a user i can see that : some red hat release *.0 are the most buggiest ever . debian is a different planet
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07:36<goodger>fxiny: yes, debian merely takes years to release
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07:37<goodger>obviously we are all here because we prefer the latter
07:37<fxiny>but to me , a hacker like Alan Cox deserve respect , of course like many others . and i am happy seeing he goes to intevil doing what he really likes instead of (maybe) being pushed into forking some distro ...
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07:38<fxiny>so , if read hat gave something to linux , he can tell intevil to give much more
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07:40<enouf>fxiny: hrm .. i wonder if he's still focusing on sound/audio? intel's snd-hda-intel? and video . .the v4l2 stuffs?
07:40<enouf>the intel ICHx stuffs?
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07:43<fxiny>enouf: he could suggest intevil employing more linux hackers : who did the most amazing technical advance in the last years ? *vista* or linux ?
07:43<enouf>fxiny: probably OPEC :-P
07:44<fxiny>ahhh i see ,the 7up crap drink's coming :P
07:45<goodger>fxiny: vista was an amazing advance
07:45<goodger>the fact that people bought it made it amazing, and the fact that it effectively destroyed windows' credibility made it a significant advance for linux...
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07:46<fxiny>goodger: ;)
07:46<fxiny>that's is
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07:46<fxiny>and they are so pathetic letting 7up leaking into p2p
07:47*mgoetze wants in on same of these advances and compiles 2.6.28 with ocf and madly patched madwifi
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07:47*fxiny wants intevil i7 saving power cpu
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07:48<mgoetze>i'm compiling this kernel for a system with an amd geode processor, i think that saves enough power already :)
07:48<fxiny>if they want me replacing this fine vintage PII ...
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07:50<fxiny>mgoetze: amd ? i'm talking about the not-used-cores switching off technology
07:51<fxiny>it suits my mentality
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07:52<mgoetze>fxiny: fortunately the geode only has 1 core, so i don't worry about such things :)
07:54<fxiny>ethic can make business flourish again . tech corporations must employ ethic persons to get our money , we don't care nor we believe to 7up refurbished crap
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08:30<inet> hey , what is this - rkhunter say Please inspect: /etc/.fstab.swo (data) /etc/.fstab.swn (data) /etc/.fstab.swl (data) /etc/.fstab.swm (data) /dev/.static (directory) /dev/.udev (directory) /dev/.initramfs (directory) What i do
08:30-!-ao2 [~u@2001:1418:117::1] has joined #debian
08:32<mgoetze>inet: stop crashing your vim, for starters
08:32<mgoetze>inet: next, get a newer version of rkhunter
08:33<mgoetze>inet: if you are happy with your current fstab, you might want to clean up with rm /etc/.fstab.sw?
08:35<inet>perhaps danger
08:36<mgoetze>yes, don't blame yourself, blame the evil hackers, that's right
08:37<inet>my rkhunter ver 1.2.9-2
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08:41<inet>what is the default permission this file
08:41<inet>sorry files
08:42<mgoetze>the default is for /etc/.fstab.sw[o-m] to not exist
08:42<mgoetze>and /etc/.fstab.swp only when you are currently editing it
08:43<inet>what do
08:43<mgoetze>man rm
08:43<valdyn>inet: do nothing or just delete the .fstab*
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08:50<theocrite>Is there a way to know what is installed when we choose "desktop environment" or "laptop" or "database server" in the installer ? I mean what packets exactly ?
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08:50<mgoetze>theocrite: dunno, but it's in the package tasksel-data
08:51<xlotlu>there's also an option to check all packages manually
08:51<amol> i am compiling debian-installer for amd64.i am getting error as E: Couldn't find package acpi-modules-2.6.26-1-amd64-di make[7]: *** [stamps/get_udebs-cdrom_gtk-stamp] Error 100 make[6]: *** [_build] Error 2
08:51<mgoetze>amol: really, this is the wrong channel
08:51<mrvn>amol: /j #debian-boot
08:51<mgoetze>amol: if you get no answer on #debian-boot, write an email
08:52<amol>hmmm i did both
08:52<mgoetze>good, now go out and have a nice saturday, and check your mail tomorrow
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09:02<enouf>amol:§ion=all and
09:03<enouf>theocrite: yes, 1st off tasksel --list-packages <task-name>
09:03<theocrite>mgoetze: thanks it's indeed in tasksel/tasks/
09:03<fxiny>bloodu hell ! i'm testing lenny shorewall-perl and it loads fast !
09:03<theocrite>enouf: thanks
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09:04<enouf>theocrite: note tasksel --list-packages standard spits out ~pimportant ~pstandard ~prequired and important and required are necessary for base
09:04<inet>all tanks
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09:06<enouf>theocrite: and this command ~$ dpkg-query -W -f='${Priority} \t${Package} \n' | egrep -i 'important|required' | sort | less will show you those pkgnames
09:08<fxiny>enouf: --color ? :)
09:09<enouf>fxiny: hehe
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09:13<enouf>dpkg: tasksel standard is dpkg-query -W -f='${Priority} \t${Package} \n' | egrep -i 'important|required' | sort | less will show you those pkgnames that are of priority 'important' and 'required' Add 'standard' to the egrep for all that are also priority 'standard' (tasksel --list-packages standard)
09:13<dpkg>enouf: okay
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09:15<enouf>dpkg: tasksel standard is also Use "dpkg-query -W -f='${Priority} \t${Package} \t${Status} \n' ...." to also list whether they're Installed or not
09:15<dpkg>enouf: okay
09:16<enouf>dpkg: tasksel standard =~ s/quired'/quired'. /
09:16<dpkg>OK, enouf
09:17<enouf>oh crap
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09:20<enouf>fixed it in pm ;-)
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09:21<enouf>fuck .. messed it up :-/
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09:28<enouf>fixed it ;-) (the bot was eating my \, so you have to escape with another \, so use \\ for one \ ;-))
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09:28<xlotlu>is there some script that does lspci / lsusb / etc. and prepares a nice kernel .config for your hardware?
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09:31<adrian>no but you should write oen
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09:33<enouf>theocrite: my bad, it's not --list-packages, it's --task-packages
09:33<enouf>so ... (corrected) theocrite: yes, 1st off tasksel --task-packages <task-name>
09:34<enouf>and (corrected) <enouf> theocrite: note tasksel --task-packages standard spits out ....
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09:41<amol>hi to all,is it necessary to be have AMD64 arch system to compile debian-installer for amd64?
09:42<the-me>amol, how else?
09:42<amol>the-me, cross compiling any way?
09:43<mrvn>amol: highly preferable.
09:43<the-me>amol, this would work with amd64 as building host for i386 binarys
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09:43<theocrite>ok thanks I got it working now :)
09:43<mrvn>amol: bochs can emulate amd64 but it is faster to go and buy a system, install it and compile on it than using bochs.
09:43<the-me>but I do not think it will work in the other way, because your cpu could not handle 64bit registers at all
09:44<plazzmex>why there isn't kde 4.1 in the debian repositories ? how to install it ?
09:44<goodger>plazzmex: because the current release of debian predates KDE 4.1 by several months at least
09:44<themill>dpkg: tell plazzmex about kde4
09:45<amol>the-me,i am having AMD64 arch but on that top i installed i386 arch OS .is this is ok to compile d-i for amd64
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09:45<amol>or i have to install amd64 os only
09:45<amol>and then compile
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09:47<amol>mrvn,the-me i am able to compile d-i for i386 but not for amd64
09:47<plazzmex>but kde 4.1 is a complete and stable version of kde ! The 4.0 version is stable about a year now. The 4.2 version isn't complete yet.. so why debian doesn't have 4.0 for example ?
09:47<amol>i am having amd64 arch with i386 Os
09:47<mrvn>amol: install a 64bit kernel and create a 64bit chroot.
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09:48<amol>mrvn, can you please tell me in detail how to?
09:49<mrvn>amol: man aptitude, man schroot, join #debian-boot
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09:54<plazzmex>People. I don't want to use backports or how it calls. I want to use the latest and better and newer KDE (that is 4.1) in debian lenny (Testing) that it will work good and from testing repositories. why debian is the one system that use this method of package testing and experiment ? all other systems update their repositories exactly after the new version of some soft released and the users can update their system to use the lates
09:54<plazzmex>debian as a standard and not very prof user I need always to use old version of programs that doesn't have many features that new version have. why ?
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09:56<cahoot>usability coupled to stability?
09:56<goodger>plazzmex: lenny is frozen to prevent new bugs being introduced while the final existing bugs are removed, so that it can be released
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09:57<petern>changing package versions is not stable behaviour
09:57<goodger>when lenny is released, testing will be unfrozen, and as soon as kde 4.1 enters unstable and is shown to be un-buggy enough, it will enter testing after that
09:57<plazzmex>but KDE 4 exist more than 1 year ! when lenny was frozen ?
09:58<goodger>about six months
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09:58<plazzmex>so..? why kde 4 isn't there ?
09:58-!-c_olivier [] has quit []
09:59<goodger>either it was not packaged before the freeze (possibly deliberately to prevent it being included in lenny), or it was not proven un-buggy enough to be included in lenny before the freeze
09:59<plazzmex>ohh. common.. its isn't good politics here. users want to use th latest versions of software.. not the old version
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10:00<goodger>plazzmex: users want an operating system that stays the same from one day to the next, i.e., is stable
10:00<petern>those users can use a different distribution
10:00<Tarcas>plazzmex: They have the option of using unstable if they want that.
10:00<cahoot>plazzmex: you feel representative for all users?
10:00<petern>or use unstable
10:00<Tarcas>I would rather have something reasonably stable than something new.
10:01<goodger>"stable" means, a) very, _very_ free of bugs, and b) unchanging
10:01-!-jcwu [] has joined #debian
10:01<Tarcas>and c) where you keep horses. :-P
10:01-!-alex_ [] has joined #debian
10:01<goodger>the Stable distribution is kept as it was when frozen for this purpose --- no new bugs are introduced, and no parts of the system change
10:02-!-alex_ [] has quit []
10:02<EmleyMoor>In stable, nothing changes unless it has to.
10:02<goodger>(security fixes are backported for, er, security reasons)
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10:03<themill>plazzmex: when kde4 works, it will migrate into unstable and then testing (squeeze). At present, there are still many applications missing from kde4, so you need both kde3 and kde4 installed to use and configure them properly.
10:03<Tarcas>And they take that "has to" very strictly. They didn't even backport the DST fix.
10:03<plazzmex>but in windows when new version of program is released then i can update to it so i can use the latest one.. why in linux there is other way ? You want to tell me that windows is better and more stable ?
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10:04<plazzmex>ok.. i'm not telling about stable.. i'm telling about testing (lenny)...
10:04<fxiny>windows fix are avaiable every leap years :P
10:05<goodger>testing is the next version of stable
10:05<themill>plazzmex: and the debian KDE team decided that kde 4 wasn't (and still isn't) ready for lenny
10:05<goodger>of course, you are free to install whatever software you like on your debian operating system with no regard for the debian repositories. nobody is stopping you, there is an entire universe of dependency hell out there
10:05<EmleyMoor>testing will occasionally freeze - as it has done now - to prepare for a new stable
10:05<cahoot>plazzmex: face it - if you want bleeding edge versions you might want another distro
10:06<Tarcas>When testing becomes frozen, it is being prepared to become stable. That is why things slow down at that time.
10:06<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, slushy is when a <testing> release becomes frozen, <unstable> tends to partially freeze as well. This is because developers are reluctant to upload radically new software to unstable, in case the frozen software in testing needs minor updates and to fix release critical bugs which keep testing from becoming <stable>.
10:06<fxiny>they are into packaging not into software updates : "service pack" tells it
10:06<Tarcas>Without understanding stable, you can't understand a freeze, or the purpose of the testing distro for that matter.
10:06<plazzmex>ok.. i understood the point. windows is better for users who want to use the latest versions and features of software.. With this point of view Linux will never be compared to Windows..
10:07<petemc>it appears you didnt understand
10:07<Tarcas>plazzmex: if you want the latest software, you use unstable.
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10:07<Tarcas>And accept the risks that come with the newness.
10:07<themill>plazzmex: kde isn't just a random piece of software. Feel free to try installing the Vista Aero interface into win xp -- let me know how you go with that.
10:07<Tarcas>Testing is for people who want SOME stability.
10:07<fxiny>btw , seen how many sec-fix ? lenny looks more stable then etch
10:08<Tarcas>and Stable is for people who don't care about new, just about reliability.
10:08<fxiny>like me
10:08<goodger>plazzmex: if you want the very latest software, you use fedora rawhide, or ubuntu... and you get an operating system that is tested for perhaps a month, and is riddled with bugs, but REALLY REALLY COOL
10:09<goodger>and I mean REALLY cool. you've never seen such coolness!
10:09<goodger>the windows wobble!
10:09<cahoot>plazzmex: except version number - what functionality do you miss atm?
10:09<goodger>what's a few kernel panics between wobbly windows?
10:10<plazzmex>I've used fedora.. it's a good system.. but many people told me that debian is better.. and i switched to debian.. Now i don't understand why i've done this !?
10:10<mgoetze>plazzmex: because when the next version of debian is released, your upgrade will just work
10:10<EmleyMoor>Did you understand what they meant?
10:11<plazzmex>cahoot: i want to see all the functionality, to check if linux can be comparable to windows software to switch forever from windows to linux.. and every year i'm trying and coming back to windows.
10:11<cahoot>plazzmex: never really satisfied?
10:11<goodger>plazzmex: this is because you apparently lack basic understanding of concepts that have been explained to you repeatedly
10:11<goodger>I think we are probably better off with you using windows
10:11<goodger>enjoy it
10:12<mgoetze>plazzmex: or try sidux
10:12<fxiny>how many packages has lenny ? 20k++ 30 ?
10:12<cahoot>plazzmex: what impulse drives you from windows?
10:12<themill>!dstats lenny
10:12<themill>!milk mrvn
10:12*dpkg puts on some milking gloves. "All right, now, mrvn, this won't hurt a bit...."
10:12<goodger>fxiny: I'm reading c. 23k, but I've debian-multimedia
10:13<plazzmex>cahoot: I wanted to use free system with free software !
10:13<dpkg>Debian Distro Stats on lenny... 23104 packages, 1936 maintainers, 59562 MB installed size, 21028 MB compressed size.
10:13<Tarcas>plazzmex: If you want Linux over Windows, you sound like an Ubuntu kinda guy.
10:13<cahoot>plazzmex: what impulse drives you back to windows then?
10:14<mgoetze>debian-multimedia is only 100 packages or so
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10:15<plazzmex>cahoot: that linux software can't be compared to windows software. linux programs lacks many of the functionality that i have on windows.. because of that i want to use the latest version of all linux soft to see all the functionality that linux can give..
10:15<fxiny>plazzmex: so . seen what goodger said ? if you want to try out software you are in the right place . forget windoze or just think how much you should pay for this fine software
10:15*EmleyMoor has generally found Linux software MORE functional
10:15<themill>plazzmex: many of us do only use a free system with free software. Why does missing a developer preview of kde stop you doing that?
10:16<plazzmex>anyway, I'm using windows for free. BUT this is nor the point here !
10:16<fxiny>when you've done this little math , ask yourself why you are not paying for it
10:17<plazzmex>cause it costs very much ! and linux is free !
10:17<plazzmex>but i wanted to see and check something fresh and new !
10:17<mrvn>Think about functionality per $. :)
10:17<cahoot>so free as in gratis is the main objective?
10:17<fxiny>is not
10:17<mgoetze>plazzmex: so, have you mentioned yet which features you're missing? and incidentally, how often does microsoft release a new version of aero for you to play with?
10:18<mrvn>cahoot: free as in speech vs free as in beer.
10:18<themill>plazzmex: also, don't talk about the functionality that you have on windows but the functionality that you actually use. When you find something you actually miss, then come and ask us about it.
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10:19<mgoetze>plazzmex: speaking of missing functionality, how is windows support for NFSv4? or IPv6? does windows have even 10% of the functionality of netfilter?
10:20<mrvn>Linux certainly lacks the functionality of all the viruses.
10:20<fxiny>i like this : being money a measure of debt , foss software is not compatible with money ,by design
10:20<mgoetze>plazzmex: also, afaik there is no tiling window manager for windows, not even a good terminal emulator
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10:21<mgoetze>plazzmex: can you have a powerful shell like zsh on windows without installing a unix emulation layer?
10:21<fxiny>hahaha they call it powershell :P
10:22<mgoetze>fxiny: that doesn't even have tab completion, does it? :P
10:22<EmleyMoor>powder as in gunpowder
10:22<fxiny>mgoetze: i don't really now . but i'm not surprised :)
10:23<Tarcas>mgoetze: XP has had IPv6 since SP0.
10:23<Tarcas>And Vista installs it by default as I understand.
10:23-!-mag3lla [] has joined #debian
10:23<fxiny>mgoetze: i do remember me installing perl on win 98 and all the unix ports
10:24<_shai_>Tarcas: Did'nt vista do something silly with 6to4?
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10:24<mgoetze>Tarcas: there is a difference between "having" IPv6 and supporting it well, e.g. all the autoconfiguration stuff, IPsec...
10:24<Tarcas>lol, I hate to play devil's advocate here, but try wireless autoconfiguration in windows, and then in Linux. Good luck with the latter.
10:25-!-user01 [~user01@] has joined #debian
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10:25<mgoetze>i don't use wireless autoconfig on a regular basis, but last time i tried network-manager it was ok
10:25<Tarcas>As for IPv6, I can't speak for the ease of autoconfig of either.
10:25<user01>is there a searchable log bot for this channel?
10:25<fxiny>Tarcas : so what ? that is all about hardware vendors being bastards
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10:27<Tarcas>fxiny: Again, devil's advocate, but just because the hardware vendors don't directly support Linux doesn't mean it's not Linux's problem. (not its fault, true, but still its problem. I can understand people shying away from Linux for that problem)
10:27<plazzmex>But in windows i don't need a shell ! there is all more simple and faster to do ! all the functionality is grphical
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10:28<Tarcas>plazzmex: How do you add a static route in Windows without using the shell?
10:28<mgoetze>plazzmex: well, that's a personal shortcoming of yours, i can work faster with a shell
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10:28<themill>Tarcas: network-manager is great for wireless config and it also handles vpn too in an easier way than windows
10:28<goodger>plazzmex: how do you back up your networking configuration to a text file on windows?
10:28<Tarcas>Opening a shell, I can do it in windows or Linux in under 30 seconds. I don't think it's possible in Windows from the GUI.
10:28<EmleyMoor>Graphical - or fumblic as I call it
10:28<taziden>plazzmex: you mean all the bugs? uh no, it's not a bug, it's a graphical feature
10:29<themill>plazzmex: the graphical shell in linux is as good or better than windows, but you also have the cli if you want it.
10:29<mgoetze>Tarcas: you're a slow typer :P
10:29<EmleyMoor>I like working in a shell, usually
10:29<goodger>and Tarcas: that's not playing devil's advocate, that's an accurate and reasonable viewpoint that deserves to be explored
10:29<Tarcas>mgoetze: 30 seconds includes double-checking my work. ;-)
10:30<plazzmex>but why i need all those thing to do on windows ?
10:30<plazzmex>I don't need to do this. I'm a stabdard user..
10:30<Tarcas>goodger: Thanks, but that's what the devil's advocate is for. Bringing up "unpopular" viewpoints that should be explored. :-)
10:30<cahoot>plazzmex: it's not a religious matter - use the os that suits your needs best
10:30<fxiny>Tarcas: a linux user knows how to wait . while things are fixed he plays with software , he reads manuals and docs . he never gets bored
10:30<fxiny>i see advantages all around me
10:31<mrvn>or he fixes things himself
10:31<mgoetze>i don't have problems with wireless between my 3 computers at home, fwiw. though the non-free madwifi works quite a bit better than ath5k
10:31<EmleyMoor>Some things work, others work well.
10:31<goodger>Tarcas: nah, the purpose of the devil's advocate is to bring up incorrect viewpoints for the purpose of causing your opponent to realise the proper one... or at least that's how it was always done to me
10:31<themill>plazzmex: you were the one saying that linux was missing things that you used in windows. You're still yet to tell us specifically what these things are.
10:31<Tarcas>mgoetze: just a question, but what happens if you take one of those computers to Panera, or a friend's house with encrypted wifi?
10:31<plazzmex>ok.. lets end our OS comparison.. thanks for pointing me a new info about debian.. good day for everyone.
10:31<goodger>plazzmex: this is not a problem with linux, it is a problem with incompetent, undertrained and change-fearing users --- to which Windows is ideally suited
10:32<goodger>good bye
10:32<mrvn>goodger: you think windows hasn't changed with every version?
10:32<mgoetze>Tarcas: why should that be a problem?
10:32-!-blackpanda [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:32<Tarcas>I'm just asking, because I haven't been able to get it to work for me without opening a shell and tinkering around in a text file.
10:33<goodger>mrvn: the windows shell hasn't changed as much in 11 years as the change between gnome and kde...
10:33<plazzmex>The functionality that i mentioned is for example there is no software on linux that can be compared to the Winamp player.. there is just NO one..
10:33<Tarcas>...which frankly, shouldn't be necessary. If you have a better way to do it, I'm asking what that way is.
10:33-!-geof [~geof@] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
10:33<mrvn>goodger: you mean the dos box?
10:33<EmleyMoor>I have to tinker with a text file the first time I go somewhere - but never again
10:33<themill>plazzmex: amarok works just fine for me
10:33<petern>explorer is the shell, win95 was the last major change
10:34<fxiny>winamp ? winamp has a long story of dangerous bugs !
10:34<plazzmex>amrok is good, but i doesn't have 1/5 of the functionality of Winamp !!!
10:34<mgoetze>Tarcas: oh, well, i personally have more shells open than anything else. anyway, try network-manager
10:34<goodger>plazzmex: there are two of them that are designed to replicate winamp
10:34<EmleyMoor>plazzmex: Name a feature you miss
10:34<goodger>I forget their names, unfortunately...
10:34<themill>plazzmex: and specific functionality that it is missing and you use is ...
10:34<Tarcas>Next time I try installing Debian on a laptop, I'll give it a shot. I gave up on this one.
10:34-!-alephnull_ [~alok@] has joined #debian
10:34<themill>plazzmex: until you start dealing in specifics, you look like a troll. Is that your intention?
10:34<goodger>come on, guys, help me out --- there was a huge row recently because the old version was going to be deprecated for lenny
10:35<s_i_m>plazzmex, if windows satisfies you in all ways, why do not just use it then?
10:35<goodger>xamp or something
10:35-!-sylar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:35<dpkg>i heard xmms is the old X MultiMedia System media player. It has been removed from Debian (although it is still in etch), see For alternatives, look at <xmms2>, <rhythmbox>, <amarok>, exaile, songbird, quod libet ... see for removal reasons
10:35<plazzmex>s_i_m: exactly
10:35<fxiny>goodger: old version of ?
10:35<dpkg>xmms2 is, like, X(cross)-platform Music Multiplexing System 2, currently under development. #xmms2 @
10:35<goodger>thank you, Tarcas
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10:35<fxiny>i use xmms2 and mpd . mpd is low on resources
10:36<s_i_m>plazzmex, if you agree with me then what do you want from linux?
10:36<plazzmex>xmms and xmms2 don't have many things and not very stable and good to use.. the sound is terrible that coming from it
10:36<fxiny>xmms sucks resources like no other audio app
10:36*mgoetze uses mplayer
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10:36<fxiny>sound terible ? wt4x !
10:36<goodger>plazzmex: furthermore, why do you persist in complaining at us?
10:36<EmleyMoor>mplayer is good for many things
10:36<plazzmex>maybe the main problem of all this is the libraries and the proprietary good codecs that linux doesn't have and windows yes
10:37<petern>awww, i remember using the binary only x11amp...
10:37<themill>plazzmex: such as?
10:37<EmleyMoor>w32codecs/w64codecs may help
10:37<plazzmex>mp3 and many more
10:37<mgoetze>plazzmex: add the debian-multimedia repository and apt-get install w32codecs
10:37<user01>i remember using command line to play mp3s
10:37<mrvn>There is a w64codecs now?
10:37<mgoetze>plazzmex: next problem
10:37<goodger>mgoetze: ^_^
10:37<EmleyMoor>mrvn: Yes - I have it
10:37<Tarcas>plazzmex: If you want new versions, you have two good options. Debian Sid (AKA Unstable) or Ubuntu. Sid is updated constantly. Ubuntu has had 10 new releases this year.
10:37-!-fred__ [] has joined #debian
10:38<themill>plazzmex: debian has had mp3 support for ages. stop making stuff up
10:38<goodger>Tarcas: *ahem* that's... 2 new releases
10:38<mgoetze>Tarcas: ubuntu has 2 releases per year
10:38<_shai_>I'm sure he was counting in binary.
10:38<plazzmex>mp3 support yes, but not good mp3 support
10:38<goodger>fred__: parlez anglais s'il vous plait, au svp allez
10:38<Tarcas>I thought their "major" version was the year and they're on something.10 right now. My bad.
10:38<mrvn>Linux can play avi files before they have finished downloading. Try that in windows
10:38<themill>plazzmex: anyway, this channel is here to deal with specific questions. If you want to generally chat about linux, then please do so in #debian-offtopic. If you have specific questions, then please ask them.
10:38<Tarcas>Must be thinking of the wrong distro.
10:38<mgoetze>Tarcas: the minor version is month
10:38<EmleyMoor>There are 10 kinds of people in the world...
10:38<Tarcas>Ah. Thanks. My bad.
10:38<plazzmex>ok. i'm tired. and I have many things todo today.. for example coming back to fedora, or trying ubuntu..
10:39-!-fred__ [] has quit []
10:39<plazzmex>thanks people. good day again
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10:39<user01>is there an arabic channel? :)
10:39*goodger dusts hands down
10:40<Tarcas>What's the 2-letter language symbol for arabic?
10:40<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, ar is argon or a program to create, modify, and extract from archives (man ar), or in binutils, or argentina
10:40<user01>is argentina
10:40<fxiny>damn ,mhe left gone m i'm late ! i was looking for this :
10:41<dpkg>hmm... arabic is Linux supports the Arabic language. See
10:41<user01>well fred is gone anyway
10:41<Tarcas>sorry, user01. not working. It works for languages like:
10:41<dpkg>deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in (auf, oder - German speaking users please go to (on, or DE == Desktop Environment
10:41<themill>fxiny: nice one :)
10:41<fxiny>themill: :)
10:41<user01>it works for latin alphabets only
10:42<user01>what about japanese though>
10:42<goodger>arabic is ar under iso 639-1
10:42<user01>thought it did for that
10:42<EmleyMoor>Does Debian support Latin? <g>
10:42<goodger>EmleyMoor: don't get me started on latin...
10:42<goodger>user01: it's la actually :)
10:43-!-zara [] has joined #debian
10:43<user01>hmmm well close
10:43<dpkg>it has been said that la is Laos. Lame Abbreviation/Acronym
10:43<Tarcas>pretty lame indeed.
10:43<petern>does debian support klingon? heh
10:43<dpkg>methinks ln is 'man ln'
10:43<Tarcas>what's that? kg?
10:43<dpkg>[lt] Lithuania
10:43<goodger>ln is Lingala, which is spoken in the northwestern part of the DR Congo
10:43<petern>no, it's pointless
10:44<goodger>lt is lithuanian
10:44<EmleyMoor>tlhIngan <g>
10:44<dpkg>if 'LI' is printed when the system is booted, it means that your drive is probably too large (OR you simply forgot to run 'lilo'). There is a Large-disk-mini-howto. Read it.. Boot the rescue disk, edit lilo.conf and add 'lba32' then try again., or (if drive geometry has changed) try booting from the rescue disk, mounting /, and rerunning lilo. Or you could try grub instead. :) Lithium, or Liechtenstein.
10:44<goodger>there is no li
10:44<user01>ah liechtenstein
10:44<goodger>...that's a country, not a language
10:44<Tarcas>dpkg has too many message collisions or something.
10:44<dpkg>no idea, Tarcas
10:44<user01>well then latin can be it :)
10:45<fxiny>well oiled bot :P
10:45<goodger>user01: no, latin is already la
10:45<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, la is Laos. Lame Abbreviation/Acronym
10:45<goodger>yes, dpkg seems to have died
10:45<themill>many of the channels are region-specific e.g. #debian-au
10:45<user01>dpkg didnt say so
10:45<dpkg>user01: no idea
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10:45<mgoetze>klingon has the iso 639-2 language code tlh
10:45<user01>he agrees
10:45<mrvn>Time to catch some Gach.
10:46<Tarcas>Why on earth would they give a code to Klingon?!
10:46-!-Cigarra [~Cig@] has quit []
10:46<petern>hmm, what's tig_ER? heh
10:46<user01>Tarcas, google did :)
10:46<fxiny>klingon is not iso but : daa 639-2 :P
10:46<mrvn>Tarcas: because the Vulcans made them
10:46<mgoetze>Tarcas: why not?
10:46<Tarcas>Yes but google is nerdy like that.
10:46<user01>and porky pig too
10:46-!-Student [~adeel@] has joined #debian
10:46<Tarcas>they also have a pirate interface.
10:47<Tarcas>doesn't mean it's a real language.
10:47-!-magellanino [] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via]
10:47<user01>er elmer fudd
10:47<goodger>Tarcas: how do you define "real language"?
10:47-!-fridim [] has quit [Quit: Parti]
10:47<Tarcas>Spoken as a first language by somebody at some time in history?
10:48<mrvn>Time to raise a kid in vulkan.
10:48<EmleyMoor>Someone once asked "Any votes for Esperanto?" - so I answered "Jes."
10:48<Tarcas>Good luck with that.
10:48<goodger>so a language is only acceptable as "real" if it is natively spoken
10:48<user01>wow i did a search for wabbits in google language elmer fudd and a got a ton of hits
10:48<goodger>EmleyMoor: bonege...
10:49-!-alephnull_ is now known as alephnull
10:49<goodger>mi dirus "jes" ankaux
10:50<user01>hmmm but if it were working properly you would think it would have translated to rabbit and had more . . .
10:50<Tarcas>goodger: would it be otherwise worth translating to/from? I suppose a common second language among many first languages would be a resonable exception, but if everyone is going to have to learn a 2nd language, why not make the "common" language one of the original ones?
10:51<user01>that why there should be klingon for when we are all forced to learn it when they invade
10:51<goodger>Tarcas: because the original ones are all... original. let's say we pick french as a common language... everyone will instantly hate the french, because it is their native language; with a constructed language like esperanto, all are equal, in that no party speaks it natively
10:51<mgoetze>Tarcas: because this "common" language might be ridiculously hard, like, say, mandarin chinese :P
10:52<goodger> the fact that most languages are very poorly designed and very difficult to learn
10:52<s_i_m>heh "designed" =)
10:52<mrvn>goodger: that might have something to do with the fact they aren't designed.
10:52<mgoetze>recommended reading: john defrancis, "the chinese language: fact and fantasy"
10:52<EmleyMoor>My dad had two different opinions as to a common language for Europe - Spanish because it's easy or Dutch because almost everyone would have to start from scratch.
10:52<goodger>Tarcas: imagine you are speaking in german to a german (presuming your native language is english). mutual embarrassment will be almost certain
10:53<mgoetze>EmleyMoor: dutch? start from scratch? i've never tried to learn it yet have about 80% reading comprehension
10:53<user01>nah czech
10:53<Tarcas>Das ist prichtig.
10:53<mgoetze>EmleyMoor: try finnish instead
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10:53<EmleyMoor>It's not hard to read
10:53<user01>yes finnish
10:53<goodger>yeah, same here, also norwegian
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10:53<mgoetze>(finnish has the additional advantage that the correlation between orthography and pronounciation is very high)
10:53<user01>then you could say works like saippuakivikauppias
10:53<goodger>but esperanto has _total_ correlation in that respect.
10:54<s_i_m>mgoetze, and it has somewhat 20+ grammatical cases
10:54<mgoetze>see, i know hardly any finnish yet i can pronounce saippuakivikauppias almost like a native finnish speaker would
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10:54<user01>mgoetze, mmm i had to have a native finnish girl pronounce it for me
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10:55<mgoetze>well i'm not saying you don't have to learn the pronounciation rules :) just that they are quite learnable and there are no exceptions
10:55<user01>it sounded nicer
10:55<EmleyMoor>Mind you, my dad tried to learn Welsh in the 1980s
10:55<fxiny>Cymrun ?
10:56<goodger>welsh is diametrically opposed to esperanto
10:56<goodger>it appears to be the sole language (besides cornish) invented specifically to divide, rather than unite, people
10:56<Tarcas>Weird pronunciations of their spellings.
10:56<user01>i had a welsh girlfriend once, i only learned i love you
10:56<goodger>that or to try and inject some validity into the claim of welsh nationality
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10:57<user01>i can only spell it phonetically
10:57<user01>ah thats it
10:57<Tarcas>...or to try to keep the English speakers from reading their roadsigns. I've been to Wales. If you know how to pronounce it, it makes sense, but until you hear a few, every word is WTF?
10:58<user01>we should adopt the ipa
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10:58<goodger>wait, IPA?
10:58<EmleyMoor>I've been told I pronounce Welsh words quite well
10:58<goodger>do you know how many gylphs there are in the IPA?
10:58<user01>well once you have them you wouldnt have to update them very often
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10:59<user01>i think the last official revision was 1993
10:59<goodger>yes, but you'd have to learn them all
10:59<goodger>it would defeat the purpose of the alphabet
10:59<user01>yes but they would work for any language
11:00<goodger>the aim of writing is not to reproduce spoken language
11:00<user01>for the ipa it is :)
11:00<Tarcas>It's to record and communicate thought.
11:00<Tarcas>just as spoken language's purpose is to communicate thought.
11:00<EmleyMoor>Homophones would be a pain
11:01<user01>right but spoken and written language evolve from each other
11:01<user01>spoken was first
11:01<Tarcas>The trouble is that language is NOT thought, so the best one is one which is as versatile as thought is.
11:01<goodger>Tarcas: I disagree... I think that thought is largely dependent upon language
11:01<Tarcas>The real trouble is that one's thought is often limited to the extent of their language.
11:02<goodger>people whose language lacks the past tense are unable to grasp the idea of the past
11:02<user01>and plural
11:02<user01>there is this language that doesnt have plural
11:02<goodger>or rather, its counting system is "one, two, three, many"
11:02<user01>this guy asked a native if he took one of his spears, how many he would have left
11:03<mrvn>goodger: many one, many two, many three, many many
11:03<goodger>there are concepts that exist that I cannot conceive in English, because the language does not support them; in Esperanto, thought blossoms freely across the mind --- or some such nauseating metaphor
11:03<user01>and he said that would depend on which one he took
11:03<mgoetze>goodger: you could condense that to "i believe in the sapir-whorf hypothesis"
11:03<Tarcas>Sounds like you've been reading too much. Watership Down... the rabbits' word for five was thrain, which meant "many"
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11:04<goodger>mgoetze: never heard of it, I'm just describing my own experience
11:04<mgoetze>goodger: well, that's why i mentioned it ;)
11:04<EmleyMoor>"One, two, lots!" - a young girl counting her fingers.
11:04<goodger>nearly every possible word in esperanto (there is no theoretical limit, as in finnish, to the complexity of the words) cannot be adequately translated into english, and sometimes entire english sentences find themselves translated into a single esperanto word
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11:06<user01>EmleyMoor, sounds smart . . . adults usually dont figure out that counting can go on to infinity so quickly
11:06<goodger>adults cannot figure out that counting can go on to infinity
11:06<goodger>the human brain cannot conceive of it
11:07<EmleyMoor>There are two kinds of infinity
11:07<mrvn>eljefe: more
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11:07<goodger>the best we have is a set of abstract ideas about this magic number called Infinity, which is treated specially in mathematics
11:07<Tarcas>Agreed. I don't think most people fully understand infinity. Einstein was one notably exception.
11:07<user01>i can conceive of infinity
11:07<EmleyMoor>Countable infininty and uncountable infinity
11:08<user01>there is no countable infinity
11:08<mrvn>user01: sure there is
11:08<goodger>EmleyMoor: the latter being what I described above. the former does not really exist
11:08<Tarcas>Not unless you're using computer math.
11:08<user01>unless you mean substituting a sign
11:08<mrvn>user01: natural numbers are countably infinite.
11:08<s_i_m>for natural numbers there is mathematical induction principle
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11:09<mrvn>user01: real numbers are uncountable infinite
11:09<user01>s_i_m you mean taking the limit of something
11:09<enouf>there is no spoon
11:09<mgoetze>yes, and it's absolutely intuitive to everyone that there are just as many natural numbers as rational numbers, of course :)
11:09<enouf>count on that
11:09<user01>maybe in computers there is
11:09<enouf>natural numbers are a human ape-like construct
11:10<user01>but then the limit is finite
11:10<user01>and the steps are infinite
11:10<Tarcas>for (i-0;i++;i=infinity); //assuming infinity is equal to the computer's version of infinity, this will terminate.
11:10<enouf>!dict infinity
11:10<mrvn>ralph: no, it will terminate when i is false
11:10<dpkg>Dictionary 'infinity' (1 of 5): 1. <mathematics> The size of something {infinite}. Using the word in the context of sets is sloppy, since different {infinite set}s aren't necessarily the same size {cardinality} as each other. See also {aleph 0} 2. <programming> The largest value that can be represented in a particular type of variable ({register}, memory location, data type, whatever). See also {minus infinity}. [{Jargon File}] (1994-11-18).
11:10<goodger>"do not try and calculate with numbers, that's impossible; instead, only try and realise the truth:--- there are no numbers. then you can see that it is not the numbers that calculate --- it is only yourself.
11:10<Tarcas>whoops... for(i=0;i++;i==infinity);
11:10<fxiny>goodger: exactly
11:11<mrvn>Tarcas: still wrong
11:11<mgoetze>ralph: yeah, it will terminate when your computer is out of memory
11:11<mgoetze>er, Tarcas i mean
11:11<enouf>you missed a ;
11:11<enouf>oops .. nope
11:11-!-widea [] has quit []
11:11<goodger>and to think I was losing an argument about basic algebra in #openttd a few minutes ago
11:11<goodger>those guys are cruel
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11:12<Tarcas>mgoetze: you forget... an integer, even a double, even an unsigned double, only gets so big. The system will be rock-stable. It's just a bit of a wait.
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11:12<mrvn>user01: a countable infinite set means that you can give every element in the set a number and you will eventually reach every one of them. You can do that with fractions for example. But you can't do that with real numbers, there are more infinite, uncountably infinite
11:12<enouf>you just defined finite
11:12<mgoetze>Tarcas: sorry, i didn't know you were planning to use a wimply language like C
11:12<goodger>mgoetze: C is wimpy?
11:13<enouf>countable infinite is an oxybozo
11:13<enouf>not even worthy of oxymoron
11:13<goodger>"real men compile by hand!"
11:13<mgoetze>haskell supports arbitrarily large integers by default
11:13<mrvn>enouf: It is a well defined mathematical term
11:13<mrvn>mgoetze: but no implementation has it
11:13<Tarcas>sorry, mgoetze. I don't code anymore. I'm a network guy. It's probably been 5 years since I've written anything more complex than HTML.
11:14<enouf>mrvn: and you trust these people?
11:14<Tarcas>/s written coded
11:14<mrvn>enouf: I am one of those people, sort of
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11:14<enouf>mrvn: you have some soul searching to do :-)
11:14<icyx>A little question: $user is owner of $file, and has r/w acces on $file. When I use rm as $user on $file, I get the error permission denied. Root is able to delete it ofcourse, and lsattr doesn't mention anything special on $file. Does anyone have an idea why this is?
11:14<mrvn>enouf: I have seen the light
11:14<fxiny>mgoetze: haskell ? you running xmonad ?
11:14<enouf>mrvn: is there a spoon there?
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11:14<mrvn>icyx: rm modifies the directory, not the file.
11:14<mgoetze>fxiny: no, awesome
11:14<goodger>icyx: check the permissions on the containing directory
11:15<mgoetze>fxiny: but that's ok, i don't need to open more than 2^32 windows :)
11:15<mrvn>enouf: no, the shadow is purely in your imagination
11:15<s_i_m>icyx, you must have write permission on the directory to delete a file
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11:16<icyx>d'oh, stupid
11:16<enouf>mrvn: but is it considered perceived? or .. a figment?
11:16<mrvn>enouf: just bend it already
11:16<icyx>I guess it's time for coffee :p
11:16<mrvn>icyx: Happy, happy. Buy some happy.
11:17<Tarcas>>more coffee
11:18<enouf>mrvn: it's crooked now :-(
11:18-!-znyto [] has quit []
11:18<Tarcas>enouf: so bend your coffee cup too.
11:18<mrvn>enouf: Now, try again with a Spork.
11:19<mrvn>Tarcas: A coffee cup is a torus. A Spoon a sphere. Totaly different things to bend.
11:19*enouf looks over at bjork
11:20-!-neraida [] has joined #debian
11:20*fxiny looks at Uma
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11:22*s_i_m looks for Klein bottle of vodka
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11:23<fxiny>you won
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11:24*Tarcas breaks his brain trying to figure out how a coffee cup is a torus or a spoon is a sphere, but agrees that they are very different objects.
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11:24<weasel>a coffee cup can also be a sphere.
11:24*Tarcas suggests mrvn looks up the definitions of those two shapes, as they are far more restrictive than he seems to believe.
11:24<weasel>depends on if you have a handle or not :)
11:25<Tarcas>I could accept hemisphere...
11:25<weasel>same thing
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11:27<s_i_m>Tarcas, you can see that a cap is a torus right here
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11:31<Tarcas>Okay, if you're going to deform the sphere, or deform the torus, fine. a coffee cup is a torus (sphere if it has no handle) and a spoon is a sphere.
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11:32<goodger>are you allowed to put holes in things and still call them the same shape?
11:33<goodger>I might call a tube a cylinder, that way
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11:34<Tarcas>no, the tube is a torus, and the cylinder a sphere... by the definitions these guys are using.
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11:34<s_i_m>goodger, no, that will not be a continuous transformation
11:34<Tarcas>which includes the ability to morph the shape any way necessary.
11:35-!-zevarito [] has joined #debian
11:35<goodger>so a torus is any 3d shape with a hole in the middle but still forms a continuous surface, and a sphere is any other continuous surface
11:35<Tarcas>"two spaces are homeomorphic if one can be deformed into the other without cutting or gluing.
11:36<And1>When I'm starting my X with gdm, choosing my WM.desktop file, my .xsession/.xinitrc aren't read/executed anymore... about two weeks ago, that worked. Were there any changes in X or gdm which cause this problem?
11:36<Tarcas>torus = exactly one hole.
11:36<weasel>goodger: a sphere has no holes. there can be other objects with two holes etc
11:36<goodger>and the point is? :P
11:37<goodger>And1: possibly the permissions on the file have changed?
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11:38<And1>goodger: Hmm, nope. 755. When I 'startx' my .xinitrc is executed.
11:39<And1>That's my .desktop file:
11:40<mrvn>goodger: To demonstrate why it is easy to bend a spoon but not a coffee cup.
11:40<mrvn>goodger: obviously.
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11:41<goodger>And1: sorry, but I've accidentally asked a question that makes you think I have any idea what you're talking about
11:41<Tarcas>But if a coffee cup is just a bent donut, if you turn it back into a donut, isn't a donut nothing more than a bent coffee cup?
11:41<goodger>mrvn: oh, yes. well, that's obvious when you say it afterward
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11:42<dredtrake>ok hello to all of you , it's my fisrt time here on irc, i'm a debian beginner so... ;)
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11:43<goodger>hello dredtrake, welcome to the strange world of internet relay chat, where anything is possible
11:43<fxiny>i prefere donuts without hole but filled with cream
11:43<Tarcas>...except pasting more than two lines. ;-)
11:43<goodger>doughnuts turn into coffee cups here, for instance
11:43<dredtrake>thank you :) goodger
11:44<goodger>except pasting more than two lines, yes
11:44<And1>fxiny: That's not a donut anymore? =)
11:44<mrvn>fxiny: you mean donout holes?
11:44<fxiny>And1: a krapfen ?
11:44<And1>Yeah. :D
11:44<fxiny>mrvn: a bombolone ?
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11:45<Tarcas>How can we help you, dredtrake?
11:45<fxiny>i mean : adding something (read cream) helps to avoid turning math into religion
11:45-!-dannys_ [] has joined #debian
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11:46<fxiny>i read about parallel universe stuff : amazing ... idiots
11:46*Tarcas recommends adding cream to science too, as it has become a religion already.
11:46<fxiny>and string theory : amazing ... brain drugs
11:47<dredtrake>hello Tarcas, i don't need particular help, but it's nice to see a place where to speak if i fact i'm a newbie in debian and im trying to learn how to make a html server works
11:47<mrvn>The whole universer on a gitarstring.
11:47<dredtrake>an d i enjoy it a lot...
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11:48<Tarcas>What server are you using, dredtrake? Apache2 I hope?
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11:48<Tarcas>installed yet?
11:48<goodger>oh dear
11:48<s_i_m>Tarcas, lol thx =)
11:48<goodger>you have your work cut out for you
11:48<dredtrake>i still don't understand everything but slowely things are going on' ;)
11:49<dredtrake>my apache is working, phpmyadmin is installed, i use php5
11:49<fxiny>is like what we were saung before about numbers and time : our little confiused brain needs numbers to describe static and time to describe dynamics . it mixes all stuff at will . both time and numbers are not real but yes , that's the way we sail , and is good .
11:49<dredtrake>i made a dyndsn adress and i route my port to my machine, it's also working
11:49<Tarcas>strong recommendation: Learn where to find what you need. We can help when you hit a stumbling block, but I recommend you check the project website and the man pages too.
11:50<Tarcas>If you point your browser at your dns name, do you get a page that says "It Works?"
11:50<dredtrake>Tarcas=>that's what i'm trying to do...
11:51<theocrite>Hm, I have a weird bug. I just finished installing a lenny with encrypted LVM and /tmp (2 partitions). I don't know why, during the installation, the drive is /dev/sdb but afterwards it is (i guess) sda, so it fails to boot. I corrected the /boot/grub/ But it still complains about "source device /dev/sdb2" not found (1 is /boot, 2 is LVM and 3 is /usr).
11:51<dredtrake>it is
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11:51<theocrite>How can I specify the good device ?
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11:52<Tarcas>dredtrake: Do you have pages yet that you want to serve? If so, put them in /usr/www/ and that should be all you need.
11:52<cahoot> /var/www?
11:52-!-blue [] has joined #debian
11:52<Tarcas>...sorry. Been a while.
11:52<dredtrake>i made a dir in my user directory
11:52-!-upsi [] has joined #debian
11:52<dredtrake>and made a symbolik link to /var/www/
11:53<Tarcas>okay. do you want it to be or just
11:53<Tarcas>Oh, okay.
11:53<dredtrake>and i can see it in my root directory, cause i comment the default line for the apache test!
11:53-!-robertk [] has joined #debian
11:53<cahoot>dredtrake: I *think* you want create a virtual host
11:53<slug>what you doing? i joined half way through
11:54<dredtrake>i want to make virtual host
11:54-!-dpalacio [~itsuki@] has joined #debian
11:54<slug>whats one of them do?
11:54<dredtrake>i asking stuf about apache
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11:55<mibber>Good day to everyone.
11:55<s_i_m>evening here
11:55<mibber>I was kind of hoping someone can help me with my problem with scim
11:55<mibber>Oh, sorry.
11:55<dredtrake>Tarcas=> i want to have jsut the dyndsn hostname, and it's allready working
11:56<slug>Hi, am new to this IRC - I used to use DC ages ago and a few recent visits to made me install this :)
11:56<dredtrake>is it safe to give the server link here ?
11:56<mibber>Scim already works for gedit and the terminal,
11:56<mibber>but I just can't get it to work for iceweasel
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11:57<Tarcas>Well there are 357 strangers in the room...
11:57<goodger>dredtrake: no. legions of script-kiddies will descend upon your server, assume your identity and sell your liver on your behalf
11:57<mgoetze>mibber: maybe you only set it up for gnome, not for XIM?
11:57<mibber>Sorry, I'm not familiar with XIM. I've just been using linux for a week or so.
11:58<mibber>I just installed it using the usal aptitude install scim command
11:58<dredtrake>i'm i sorry goodger, but i didn't understood you sentence... {my English isn't very good}
11:58<goodger>dredtrake: oh, ok. what I meant was that you should probably not publicise your URL until you are reasonably sure that the machine is secure
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11:59<dredtrake>oki :D thank you !!
11:59<dredtrake>i guess right now it's totaly not
11:59<slug>what do u use scim for?
11:59<mibber>For asian text input
11:59<mibber>I've already installed the ttfs
11:59<mgoetze>mibber: there's some compressed documentation under /usr/share/doc/scim/README.Debian.gz
11:59<mibber>and the arphic uming file
11:59<Tarcas>dredtrake: you could pick a couple people to private-message it to, but I really wouldn't leave the URL in the chat room.
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12:00<slug>ahh i see - was trying to think of a use for it
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12:00<mibber>Let me check that first
12:00<dredtrake>oki, nice ;)
12:01<mgoetze>mibber: try running im-switch -s scim
12:02<mgoetze>mibber: you may have to "aptitude install im-switch" first
12:02<mibber>@mgoetze still doesn't work for firefox
12:03<mibber>I'll go do that
12:03<mgoetze>mibber: and then restart your x session
12:04<mibber>Scim already works for gedit and the terminal by the way. LAthough I have to go "right click>choose input method>choose scim input method" first vefore it works
12:05<mibber>Okay. I'll install then restart
12:05<mgoetze>mibber: i'm guessing that's gnome-terminal ;)
12:05<mibber>Oh. Yeah. I guess so.
12:06<mibber>It's the only terminal I've used so far.
12:06<mibber>Still kidn of new to linux
12:06<mgoetze>with gnome you can configure the input method for programs using the GTK library, which iceweasel doesn't use
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12:07<mgoetze>so you need to do some more work for programs that don't use the gtk library :) but it should be easy with im-switch
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12:07<hjb>Hi. isn't talking to me :-( Is there some trouble with it?
12:08<mibber>Looks like im-switch is already installed
12:09<mibber>I'll be restarting now I guess.
12:09<mibber>Hope it works
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12:09<mgoetze>good luck
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12:12<sg>how can i get a list of kernel modules compiled into the kernel and not as modules?
12:12<mrvn>sg: zgrep "=Y" /proc/config.gz
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12:13<sg>no such file
12:13-!-zara [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:13<sg>what the.
12:13<sg>file exists...
12:13<sg>no matches???
12:14<EmleyMoor>sg: "\=y" ?
12:15<dredtrake>someone know how to have a svnserver with or without apache running on the web?
12:15-!-zara [] has joined #debian
12:16<bozz>allow from and deny from all, for example ? depending on the interface apache is listening
12:17<bozz>or make apache listens on a private interface
12:17<mgoetze>dredtrake: are you just trying to provide ssh access, or a web frontend?
12:17<mgoetze>dredtrake: er svn access
12:17-!-mestre [] has joined #debian
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12:18<dredtrake>i would prefer to use ssh,
12:18<mgoetze>dredtrake: well, use ssh, then :)
12:19<sg>can someone explain to me about the major and minor numbers i pass when i issue a mknod?
12:19<sg>(linux noob here)
12:19<mrvn>sg: less linux-source-2.6.26/Documentation/devices.txt
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12:26<sdk>Ok, so my work provides me with a wireless Sprint card. I'm running Deb on my laptop. I'm trying to figure out how to configure my laptop to act as a wireless gateway and ad-hoc AP for my family's 'Net enabled toys while we're on long trips etc. I've been googling to no avail. Any suggestions as to where I can look to help me figure this out?
12:26<sdk>Or even an Infrastucture as opposed to Ad-Hoc.
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12:29<mibber>Hello again.
12:29<mibber>Problem fixed it seems.
12:30-!-phinaliumz [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.2.6]
12:31<mibber>I ended up downloading scim-bridge though. And ended up editing a line or so from some file. I'm not sure.
12:31<mibber>Thanks to all who took tiem to reply to ,y inquiry.
12:31<mibber>Thanks to all who took time to reply to my inquiry.
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12:33<debacle>hi all, how can i install libx11-dev package on debian ?
12:33-!-slug [] has left #debian [Leaving]
12:34<mrvn>debacle: man aptitude
12:35<debacle>mrvn: i know aptitude, even if i use apt-get. but apt-cache search libx11 show me no devel package ? is there a special package name ?
12:35-!-DBAlex [~alex@] has joined #debian
12:36<dredtrake>i need a little precision, if i create virtual host with apache i should have many domaine name availlable on my server? like, that gives /var/www/site-a/content, that gives /ver/www/site-b/content , .... ?? that's it :D ?
12:36<mrvn> *** 2:1.1.5-2 0
12:36<mrvn> 500 http://chocos sid/main Packages
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12:37<mrvn>debacle: sarge?
12:37<DBAlex>anyone use debian inside virtualbox? all I can get is vesa... maybe I should install guest additions and reconfigure though
12:37<debacle>mrvn: no, lenny
12:37<DBAlex>using etch btw
12:37<debacle>mrvn: E: Couldn't find package libx11-dev
12:38-!-gnufan [~srw@] has joined #debian
12:38<DBAlex>and debian is very nice :-) much lower memory footprint than ubuntu I see
12:38<mrvn>DBAlex: especially since they are pratically identical
12:38-!-hjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:38<DBAlex>yes, I find that odd
12:39<DBAlex>I suppose ubuntu tries to be everything to everyone
12:39<fxiny>but me
12:39<DBAlex>"you can please some of the people some of the time..." :D
12:39<DBAlex>ubuntu used to be great around 2005/2006
12:40<DBAlex>not sure what happened, piled on the bloat
12:40<gnufan>I think my sound is intermittently breaking. Twice now I've come back to my machine, and can't get sound. I really can't remember today if I used the audio since booting. It is Lenny(ish) this box sound worked fine for ages, could be the recent kernel change.... Where to start figuring it out?
12:40<debacle>mrvn: wow ... let me look at sources.list
12:40<DBAlex>also this may be a stupid question but how "unstable" is the unstable branch?
12:41<mrvn>DBAlex: unstable is as unstable says
12:41<DBAlex>good enough for general everyday use?
12:41<Tarcas>any patch goes straight to unstable, untested IIRC.
12:41<Tarcas>For everyday use, go with testing.
12:41<[machine]>DBAlex: it is unstable in the sense that packages are updated as new upstream releases become available
12:41<EmleyMoor>Breakages are not uncommon
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12:41<DBAlex>[machine]: ah ok, thankyou
12:42<dredtrake>sorry can somebody answer me... :) ?
12:42-!-loreeez [] has quit []
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12:42<dredtrake>about my previous question.
12:42-!-giuseppe [] has quit []
12:43<DBAlex>also, when I try to upgrade python, it says its the latest version (installed from etch 4.0r5), do I need to add another repo to sources.list?
12:43-!-hjb [] has joined #debian
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12:43<DBAlex>(it's not the latest... 2.4.4...)
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12:45<EmleyMoor>DBAlex: You're running etch?
12:45-!-amdgoon [~amdgoon@] has quit [Quit: [hienoa] - your ass is glowing!]
12:45<EmleyMoor>Then that is likely the latest available
12:45<DBAlex>you can't override that choice and install the latest anyway?
12:46<DBAlex>EmleyMoor: ?
12:46<EmleyMoor>DBAlex: It would be down to you to sort out dependencies and stuff
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12:46<DBAlex>maybe a lenny install is probably what I want...
12:47<EmleyMoor>lenny is doing nicely for me
12:47<DBAlex>also flash doesn't work after installing to /usr/lib/iceweasel/
12:47-!-Nazcafan [] has joined #debian
12:47<[machine]>dba: did you use the debian package?
12:47-!-imu [] has joined #debian
12:47<DBAlex>seeing as iceweasel is just ff2 without the branding it seems odd
12:48<DBAlex>[machine]: tried that too but dependency complaints
12:48<DBAlex>can you set dpkg to install and to install the dependencies?
12:48<EmleyMoor>aptitude is for that
12:48<DBAlex>ah ok
12:49<DBAlex>sudo aptitude -i app_name ?
12:49<EmleyMoor>Not -i - the word "install"
12:49<DBAlex>I thought aptitude was a modern version of apt-get...
12:49<EmleyMoor>You can just run aptitude too
12:49<DBAlex>well the "modern replacement"
12:49<[machine]>dba: it is
12:49<EmleyMoor>It is and more
12:49<DBAlex>(not that it needed replacing...)
12:50<[machine]>some people prefer apt-get though ;)
12:50<s_i_m>dredtrake, yes, your server should have several CNAMEs pointing to the same IP.
12:50<DBAlex>like me :D
12:50<DBAlex>(can you tell ;) )
12:50<dinomite>aptitude does a lot more accounting, among other things
12:50<dinomite>if you install a package that has dependencies and later remove it, aptitude is smart enough to remove those des
12:51<DBAlex>and check whether other apps rely on them?
12:51<[machine]>aptitude is "cleverer"
12:51<Tarcas>dinomite: that's the one thing I wish apt-get does that it doesn't do.
12:51-!-hjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:51<dinomite>DBAlex: It doesn't check, it just does accounting when you install
12:51<dinomite>so you have to use aptitude all the time
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12:52<dredtrake>s_i_m : i actualy using dyndns, can i get many hostnames with them and how to configure cause right now i'm logged to the dyndns server throught my internet box..
12:53<Tarcas>DBAlex: if you use Aptitude to install package A which depends on package Z, and then apt-get install package B which also depends on package Z, and then use aptitude to uninstall A, it will remove Z. If you used Aptitude to install B instead, Z would stay when you remove A.
12:53<DBAlex>dinomite: ok
12:53<mgoetze>dredtrake: google("CNAME")
12:53<dinomite>so, in short, aptitude is better and you should use it all the time ;-)
12:53<dredtrake>ok :)
12:53<DBAlex>Tarcas: ok, thanks for the explanation :-)
12:54<mgoetze>Tarcas: that's wrong
12:54<Tarcas>That's how I understand it anyway. I've been known to be wrong though.
12:54<DBAlex>dinomite: hehe, just loaded it up, has a silly curses interface
12:54<DBAlex>although it is quite easy to use...
12:54<mgoetze>Tarcas: dpkg will refuse to uninstall Z as long as B is installed
12:54<dredtrake>ok thank you for the open way :D
12:54-!-katha [] has joined #debian
12:54<DBAlex>and I found python2.5 yay :-)
12:54<icyx>Tarcas, apt-get has an autoremove option as well now right?
12:55-!-katha [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:55<dinomite>DBAlex: I use it command line in the exact same manner as apt-get
12:55<Tarcas>icyx: I haven't heard of it if it does.
12:55<[machine]>icyx: true
12:55<dinomite>I hadn't ever started up that ncurses interface of aptitude
12:55-!-gutocarvalho [~gutocarva@] has joined #debian
12:55<s_i_m>dredtrake, IIRC you can create several host records in dyndns pointing to the same ip
12:55<dinomite>just use it like you would apt-get; "aptitude install foo"
12:55<[machine]>there is also deborphan
12:55-!-kristianpaul [] has joined #debian
12:55<mgoetze>i like the ncurses interface for more complicated things
12:56<icyx>I'm not sure of it, but I think it even states which packages are orphans each time you run apt-get
12:56<gnufan>Okay -- aplay works as root, and works as me when I move .asoundrc out of the way -- something odd happening with this kernel....
12:56<Tarcas>dinomite: thanks, I'll have to remember to do that the next time I install Linux. I always just use apt-get.
12:56<dredtrake>s_i_m, ok i note it :) thx
12:56<Tarcas>Hated the curses-based version.
12:56<[machine]>icyx: and prompts you to apt-get autoremove
12:56<DBAlex>dinomite: ok
12:56<icyx>Yeah, exactly machine
12:56<dinomite>Tarcas: not too late to start using it
12:57-!-tarik [~chatzilla@] has joined #debian
12:57<icyx>Anyway, I can't see why aptitude > apt-get
12:57<[machine]>imo, it depends on how clever you wish your package manager to be
12:57<amphi>!why aptitude
12:57<dpkg>aptitude has more advanced conflict/dependency resolution than other tools, it has far more advanced searching available, and will automatically uninstall unneeded dependencies, read /usr/share/doc/aptitude/README for more info. Aptitude can also remove or purge one package at the same time as installing others all from the command line, making it much easier to recover from broken dependencies.
12:57<DBAlex>apt-get is like a nice old pair of shoes :-D
12:57<DBAlex>maybe i'll get used to aptitude if i use it more
12:58<[machine]>aptitude is cleverer which is great except where you don't wish it were so
12:58<dredtrake>oki good bye and thank you for your help, i go eat right now! :)
12:58-!-dredtrake [] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
12:58<icyx>It just happens i love old shoes :p
12:58<gnufan>icyx: I have apt-get in the muscle memory - but last time I used aptitude it told me I had "broken packages" after some pondering realised these were installed but totally useless to me. So I'm an aptitude convert (but I won't uninstall apt-get any time soon).
12:58<dinomite>I think if you use aptitude exclusively, it's cleverness won't ever cause a problem
12:59<Tarcas>apt-get remove apt-get
12:59<mrvn>unless it goes haywire
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13:00<DBAlex>Tarcas: that works?
13:01-!-aro [] has joined #debian
13:01<Tarcas>Why wouldn't it? apt-get intall apt-get does NOT work, however.
13:01<Tarcas>not counting the fact that I typoed it.
13:02<icyx>Hey, I went to this channel with opera because I only had to ask one little question, but it is quite cosy here. Anyone has a good IRC client to recommend to me?
13:02-!-foolano [] has joined #debian
13:02<DBAlex>icyx: xchat
13:02<[machine]>icy: like everything else "it depends"
13:02<DBAlex>the best there is (imho)
13:03<DBAlex>if you want command line then irssi
13:03-!-habtool [] has joined #debian
13:03<icyx>xchat won't be that great, I'm an QT-only user :p
13:03<aro>hello everybody someone know some channel where i can find person want to speak about networking? tank'you
13:03-!-debacle [] has quit [Quit: Quitting!]
13:03*[machine] <3 epic+lice
13:03<Tarcas>pidgin is an option. It also supports AIM, ICQ, MSN, Yahoo, Jabber and several others.
13:03<icyx>I'll have a look at irssi
13:03<DBAlex>not for irc though
13:04<DBAlex>great for everything else
13:04<DBAlex>maybe I just like xchat too much
13:04<Tarcas>I'm using GAIM now. Are you saying they removed IRC from the later versions?
13:04<[machine]>icy: if you're going gui, try the kdeone?
13:04<DBAlex>no, just I used it and it was rubbish
13:04-!-simonrvn [] has quit [Quit: bbl]
13:04<EmleyMoor>I H8 xchat
13:04<Tarcas>aro: I'm a former CCNA. Depending on what aspect of networking, I may be able to help.
13:04<icyx>Thanks machine, I'll check it out
13:04<DBAlex>EmleyMoor: ?
13:05<EmleyMoor>H8 = hate
13:05<icyx>the first hit on google said it was a GTK+ client so :p
13:05<DBAlex>wow, terminal, epiphany, xchat, iceweasel open and only 120mb mem usage
13:06<[machine]>aro: just ask your question
13:06<DBAlex>ubuntu would be much worse
13:06<aro>i'have to set up a domain: ldaap
13:06<icyx>isn't there a client with emacs-like keybindings? :p
13:06<DBAlex>I hope not...
13:06<[machine]>emacs has several irc clients i believe
13:06<aro>, secure autentication, network share folder
13:07<DBAlex>I don't like either vi or emacs...
13:07<[machine]>emacs..a damn fine os but where is the text editor \o/
13:07<icyx>lol :D
13:07<DBAlex>gedit is nice once you customise it a bit
13:07<DBAlex>I wrote a nice sh script for compiling java
13:07<[machine]>vi has the advantage that it is on everything *ix
13:08<DBAlex>although nano is getting more common
13:08<Tarcas>[machine]: It's not on all, but it maps to vim wherever it's not.
13:08<DBAlex>I know how to use vi, I still don't like it...
13:08-!-habtool [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:09<[machine]>aro: what exactly is the problem?
13:09-!-wosu_ [] has joined #debian
13:09<Tarcas>nano is a good basic editor. It strikes me as the notepad of *nix CLI editors.
13:09<DBAlex>thats why its nice
13:09-!-wosu_ [] has quit []
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13:09<Tarcas>I've gotten used to vim myself.
13:10<Tarcas>I just need to learn to use the more advanced functionality.
13:10<DBAlex>as long as an editor has minimal scripting, line numbering, identation and some form of syntax highlighting i'm happy
13:11<DBAlex>so gedit ticks all those boxes as does nano if its configured properly
13:11-!-habtool [] has joined #debian
13:11*[machine] uses kate and vi(m)
13:11<icyx>I can see why people like VIM, but I was taught by an Emacs-fanatic, so emacs was a natural choice then.
13:11-!-Celelaptop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:11<amphi>icyx: heh
13:12<Tarcas>icyx: if you understand the other side, you're above most in the vi/emacs debate.
13:12*[machine] started out on sunos 4.x... vi is expected
13:12<[machine]>anything more is simply a bonus
13:12-!-miksuh_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:12<aro>i want to know one thing about autentication , if i use kerberos , or if i use tls and i maintain password in ldap in secure way , is the same?
13:13<Tarcas>I use AIX at work, so it's a good thing I learned vim in college.
13:13<[machine]>aro: they can both be configured securely yes
13:14<aro>so if i decide to don't use kerberos i can achieve the same security ?
13:14<Tarcas>CS curriculums should require a class on *nix OS usage including training on both vi and emacs IMO.
13:15-!-GoNoGo [] has joined #debian
13:15<icyx>Well, I don't see why there should be a debate at all about vi(m)/emacs. Everyone can use what he/she likes, and is the most productive in, right?
13:15<[machine]>quite, how is a modern day graduate expected to be able to join in an emacs vs vi war if they haven't used both
13:15<Tarcas>icyx: I agree. And yet the battle rages around us.
13:15<cahoot>icyx: trying pragmatism?
13:15<mrvn>icyx: vi is an abominition and xemacs is salvation. :)
13:16-!-javatexan1 [] has joined #debian
13:16<[machine]>aro: they can both be used securely, how they work below the surface is different though
13:16-!-javatexan1 [] has left #debian []
13:16<amphi>!start an editor war
13:16<dpkg>vim is known to cause brain damage
13:16<goodger>it's not a logical battle [or else vi would have won long ago], it's a masculine insecurity problem
13:16<goodger>people from both sides are compelled to pointlessly deride the other to make themselves feel like big strong men
13:17<goodger>see also, every other flamewar in the history of humanity
13:17<Tarcas>When one makes a decision, one finds points which justify that decision.
13:17<[machine]>tarcas: see also, "anyone can make a mistake" ;)
13:18<icyx>Well, it is not just pragmatism (however it maybe slightly is), isn't it just plain logic?
13:18<aro>active directory use by default kerberos unix domain admin wath usually uses to autenticate the user in the domain?
13:18<Supaplex>I use to like emacs soley because I was use to emacs keybindings from the days of the borland IDE. Today I use vim :)
13:18<icyx>goodger, I think you're right
13:19<Tarcas>This doesn't strike me as a battle of "good vs. evil" it strikes me as a battle of "great vs. great" and each trying to prove themselves greater. Since neither is gaining a significant edge, last I heard, I'm guessing they're just about dead-equal. Therefore, back to icyx's assertion that it doesn't matter. Use what you like and don't worry about it.
13:20<goodger>icyx: I should have you stuffed and put on a wall to commemorate this rare occasion
13:20<icyx>hehe, no thanks ;)
13:21<icyx>But you are right I think, most flamewars are afterall started by boasting kids
13:22<goodger>sometimes forty-five-year-old ones
13:22<goodger>Tarcas: yes, yes... :)
13:22<icyx>nice tarcas
13:22-!-Nazcafan [] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
13:23-!-freex_ [] has joined #debian
13:23<Tarcas>I've found very few differences between kids and adults... Experience (including confidence), physical size and strength, attention span. Just about any other differences stem from one or more of these.
13:23-!-Celelaptop [] has joined #debian
13:23-!-kurumin [] has joined #debian
13:23<goodger>indeed, I hope my attention span improves in the coming years
13:23<Tarcas>And meanness and insecurity don't change.
13:24<Tarcas>nor does the desire to play with fun toys.
13:24<Tarcas>nor greed
13:24<kurumin>go to hell all you
13:24<goodger>abrotman, amphi: sorry to interrupt, but --- help, please!
13:24-!-kurumin [] has quit []
13:24<Supaplex>he sure told us
13:24<abrotman>those kurumin tend to do that
13:24<goodger>how inconsiderate, quitting before he can be viciously ejected
13:24<fxiny>who summoned me ?
13:24<Tarcas>lol. Speaking of children...
13:24*abrotman wonders what amphi was going to do :)
13:25-!-eno [~deuce@] has joined #debian
13:25<goodger>abrotman: well, if you're not going to actually _use_ the op status, you should be prepared for op-ambiguity ;)
13:25<Supaplex>looks like he keeps hopping through proxies or something. no ident on the last 4 results for /whowas
13:25-!-dpalacio [~itsuki@] has joined #debian
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13:26<abrotman>goodger: kurumin is a distro based on debian usuaally used by .br people .. their irc client seems to default here, and they don't usually make much sense
13:26-!-lancer [] has joined #debian
13:26<eno>spriken ze english?
13:26<Supaplex>eno: irssi feature
13:26<goodger>abrotman: ah, that makes marginally more sense
13:26<fxiny>eno: was juts Virginia , Plain :P
13:26<Tarcas>Sprechen Sie...
13:26<mcprtk>hello people
13:26<goodger>Tarcas: shhhh...
13:27<goodger>hello mcprtk
13:27-!-lancer [] has quit []
13:27<eno>wondering why my proxy is blocked on all the irc servers
13:27<mcprtk>hey goodger
13:27<eno>cept this one
13:28*eno kicks pc
13:28<chahibi>eno, using vpn?
13:28<abrotman>eno: firstly, you're asking the wrong person ... and probably because your proxy has been abused
13:28<abrotman>wrong people
13:28<eno>actually it hasn't ...
13:28<eno>well, I do run ubuntu
13:28<Tarcas>might try hopping through a 2nd proxy.
13:28*goodger strokes beard
13:29<abrotman>eno: so what does that have to do with Debian?
13:29<eno>if I had a tech question, it would be deb related ;)
13:29<abrotman>no it wouldn't
13:29<eno>why's that?
13:29<avu>eno, no, it would be ubuntu related
13:29<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
13:29<abrotman>you would ask #ubuntu on
13:29<enouf>eno: lose the first 3 letters of your nick
13:29<eno>they banned my proxy
13:29*eno lol
13:29<abrotman>eno: not our problem
13:29-!-freex [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:29<dpkg>If you want to laugh, use heh or hah or bwahahaha. lol doesn't sound like laughter at all and makes you look like an AOL user.
13:30<eno>I am an aol user
13:30<fxiny>enouf: yeahhh i can't tab completion to you !
13:30<dpkg>hmm... aol is America OnLine, a large ISP, beloved of people who don't know much about the Internet.
13:30<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, asshat is if you have to ask what one is, you probably are one
13:30<enouf>!aolsmite fxiny
13:30<Tarcas>eno, that would be why your proxy is banned. AOL users have a tendency to... abuse.
13:30<abrotman>stop with the damn bot
13:30<Supaplex>dpkg: aol is also like rednecks with internet
13:30*dpkg hits is also like rednecks with internet with a free America Online CD until he dies
13:30<abrotman>eno: stop
13:30<abrotman>eno: do you have a Debian related question?
13:31<goodger>eno: for instance, you are abusing at this time
13:31<eno>yes yesss I do
13:31<enouf>fxiny: won't be long ;-)
13:31-!-jameson [] has joined #debian
13:31<eno>was wandering if anyone had a packaged scatterchat deb?
13:31<Supaplex>I'm so glad eno was here to temper my patience. *sigh*
13:31<abrotman>eno: for which version of debian?
13:31<eno>for ubuntu
13:32<fxiny>u what ?
13:32<eno>I don't think it matters
13:32<abrotman>eno: go ask #ubuntu on
13:32<Tarcas>you'll have to ask in #ubuntu
13:32<abrotman>eno: yes it matters .. they're not the same distro
13:32-!-Zylvain [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
13:32<eno>debs work in ubuntu
13:32<jameson>hi - is it possible to switch from etch-amd64 to etch-pure64? what is the extent of the libc6-i386 package, and why is pure64 not the default?
13:32*goodger bashes head on desk
13:32<abrotman>eno: last warning, #ubuntu on
13:32<dpkg>Remember Lorena Bobbitt []? Remember what she did to her husband's woody? Well, when you install binary packages from different branches onto your woody (...sarge, etch), you get the same result. Same goes for Sarge, Etch, and any other debian system, "debian based distro", or the fire that is <rpm>, <alien>, etc.
13:32<Tarcas>It does matter. unstable gets packages before testing, which then becomes stable and therefore gets them last. Ubuntu is not in this chain.
13:33<fxiny>Supaplex: hahahah you back !
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13:33<Supaplex>eno: see dpkg above
13:33<mcprtk>how much of ubuntu is based on debian?
13:33<eno>they banned me from the channel though
13:33<abrotman>Supaplex: that's not related ...
13:33<eno>anyhow, does anyone have a scatterchat deb?
13:33<goodger>jameson: what on earth is pure64?
13:33<eno>any at all
13:33<abrotman>if you want to talk about ubuntu *at all* go to #ubuntu on
13:33<eno>I'm not here to talk
13:33<abrotman>you're here to annoy .. we got it
13:33<eno>was trying to find a scatterchat deb though
13:34<abrotman>eno: you're not using debian, you're offtopic, go away
13:34<goodger>eno: I am not surprised to hear that, the #ubuntu people have developed efficient ban reflexes
13:34<Supaplex>eno: if you are here for ubuntu support, you're in the wrong place.
13:34-!-evandar_ [] has joined #debian
13:34<eno>I'm not
13:34-!-evandar [] has quit [Quit: Conversation terminated]
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13:34<goodger>jameson: kindly post to the channel
13:34<abrotman>eno: You've been silenced for being offtopic, Ubuntu support is #ubuntu on
13:34<fxiny>enouf: heheheh
13:35<goodger>jameson: that means not PMing me any more
13:35<jameson>"pure64" up on a few mirrors -- it's also mentioned in the debain amd64 howto. i am just troubled that the i386 libs were installed in the /emul folder by default on etch. i'm coming from fedora/ubuntu the past few years so haven't been keeping up with the debian port
13:35<Tarcas>eno: Look it up yourself.
13:35<abrotman>Tarcas: stop
13:35<Tarcas>Am done.
13:36<Supaplex>I hope he doesn't go to and install those for some other distro :)
13:36*Supaplex wonders out into the cold yonder wilderness to shovel snow off the sidewalk and driveway
13:36<goodger>Supaplex: I hope he does. it will be entertaining
13:36<goodger>jameson: as I understand it, i386 software is typically desired to run on amd64 systems (wine, firefox plugins, etc)...
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13:37<themill>goodger: wishing ill on anyone isn't appreciated in #d, even if he was a tard-like troll.
13:37<Tarcas>jameson: amd64 systems run i386 binaries natively. It's not a problem.
13:37<craigevil-eee>not many plugins that arent 64bit, wine is a different beast
13:37<jameson>yes sure, but i'm just trying to run a minimalist stock LAMP with packages all on the same architecture (saving rhetorical debates of whether or not i386 is rightly a subset of the amd64 architecture)
13:37<abrotman>Tarcas: does the amd64 OS run i386 binariesnatively?
13:38<Tarcas>Yes. That's why it was so much better than IA64.
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13:38<abrotman>the OS .. not the hardware
13:38<Tarcas>Nothing had to be recompiled.
13:38<abrotman>you're missing the point ..
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13:38<goodger>...the OS _does_ run i386 binaries, but there is a lot of compatibility mess
13:38<mrvn>jameson: it is not a subset. It is a different cpu mode.
13:38<goodger>themill: you can't serious consider that "wishing ill"; it will be a valuable educational experience
13:38<themill>goodger: heh
13:38-!-kain [~kain@] has joined #debian
13:39<Tarcas>Well considering the OS passes the commands straight through to the hardware, it would be foolish to block those.
13:39<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
13:39-!-sisa [] has joined #debian
13:39<abrotman>Tarcas: are you serious?
13:40<Supaplex>kain: greetings
13:40<jameson>Well ultimately I suppose I am wondering: is it safe to remove all of i386 libraries, or are any of them integral to the functionality of the amd64 debian etch port?
13:40<jameson>and also, why are they installed by default!
13:40<mrvn>jameson: The pure64 part is that 64bit libs are in /lib. For that reason 32bit libs can't be in lib as on suse/rh systems. /emul/ia32-linux/ was used because ia64 had that and ia32-libs just added amd64 to the arch list.
13:40<Tarcas>jameson: I suspect they are integral. If you try it, back everything up first.
13:40<mrvn>jameson: they never where.
13:41<mrvn>jameson: they shouldn't even be installed by default.
13:41<icyx>i got 2 go
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13:42<mrvn>jameson: integral packages are marked as essential and required
13:42<jameson>mrvn: I got them with a "standard system" install from a 4.0 latest release DVD-1 install
13:42<jameson>ah okay
13:42<mrvn>jameson: possible. But unless you have for example wine installed you should not.
13:42<jameson>in the html docs on the debian site? or through some dpkg command?
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13:43<mrvn>jameson: run aptitude remove libc6-i386 and see what else it wants to remove.
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13:43<jameson>okay, cool! will try.
13:43<themill>jameson: "aptitude why packagename" might also be helpful.
13:44<themill>oh sorry, that's lenny+ only, not in etch.
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13:44<mrvn>i ia32-libs Depends libc6-i386 (>= 2.3.6-2)
13:45<mrvn>seems like I have no gcc-multilib installed.
13:45<jameson>hm, well, when i ran dpkg --simulate -r libc6-i386 things looked quite aweful, but having done aptitute remove the package simply went away noting no dependencies
13:45<jameson>thanks all!
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13:49<mcprtk>To everyone. Does Debian have a central control system like Yast2 in opensuse?
13:49-!-GoNoGo [] has quit []
13:50<avu>mcprtk, no
13:50<dima1236>anyone around ?
13:50<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
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13:51<abrotman>other than yast for debian ?
13:51<dima1236>i got a question , i got 2 lan cards can i specify for each user wich the one will be used for him ? i am running debian4
13:51<avu>abrotman, don't make me puke.
13:51<mcprtk>oops......... thnx avu and dpkg
13:51<mrvn>dima1236: someone got an answere
13:51<Tarcas>dima1236: I don't know why you would want to do that, but unless you firewall it by ports or IP ranges, I don't think it's possible.
13:52<abrotman>avu: .. if it still exists
13:52<avu>abrotman, yeah, I know this abomination :)
13:52<mrvn>dima1236: man iptables, / uid
13:53-!-zachary [~zachary@2001:470:1f11:339::8] has joined #debian
13:53<mgoetze>yast is the main reason why suse is at the top of my list of "linux distributions i hate"
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13:54<mcprtk>thanks abrotman, but yast4debian is temporarily stopped by the developers
13:55-!-sixfu [~jan@2001:6f8:13f7:dead:bad:1337:beef:babe] has joined #debian
13:55<abrotman>i see that .. and thank goodness
13:55<sixfu>o hai
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13:55<TheKing>Is there actually a GOOD way or guide on securing debian lenny?
13:55-!-aro [] has quit []
13:56<abrotman>!securing debian
13:56<dpkg>methinks securing debian is at
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14:04<TheKing>Does anybody know how to generate SSH keys?
14:04<Tengu>cf manpage
14:05<TheKing>k, ty
14:05<Tengu>np :)
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14:07<TheKing>How do I secure SSH
14:07-!-chahibi [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:07<zachary>no root login
14:07<TheKing>anything else
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14:08<newsense>anyone know how i can stop tripwire from reporting added/removed files in /proc, by default there is an entry for it in the twpol.txt file i commented it out before running tripwire --init but it still added /proc to the db
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14:11<fxiny>newsense: twpol.txt is txt file only and it shouldn't be in /etc/tripwire
14:11<Thornley>Hello, I'm trying to use apt-get to install/remove programs but when I do I get this error message:
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14:11<Thornley>Could someone offer me some help?
14:11<abrotman>Thornley: did you have flightgear installed ?
14:11<Thornley>abrotman, Yes
14:12<abrotman>and now it's gone ?
14:12-!-louis [] has quit []
14:12<Thornley>abrotman, Yes
14:12<mgoetze>sounds like bug report time
14:12<abrotman>is FlightGear a debian package?
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14:13<abrotman>Thornley: can you paste /var/lib/dpkg/fgfs-base.prerm in the pastebin ?
14:14<mgoetze>abrotman: surely you mean /var/lib/dpkg/info/fgfs-base.prerm
14:14<abrotman>uh .. yep :)
14:15<Thornley><abrotman> and now it's gone ?
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14:15<fxiny>newsense: you edit mypol.txt then run : tripwire -m p --secure-mode low /etc/tripwire/mypol.txt , this will generate tw.pol , mv mypol.txt off the way , you can run tripwire -m i if you want or tripwire --update-policy mypol.txt and reinit
14:15<abrotman>Thornley: that's the whole thing?
14:15<newsense>fxiny, thanks
14:16<DBAlex>thanks for the help, and nice chatting :-D
14:16<fxiny>newsense: to print again from your tw.pol run tripwire --print-polfile > mypol.txt
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14:16<newsense>fxiny, tried with the update-policy option but got error
14:17<newsense>i think i messed something up in the 12 hours i spent trying to figure it out haha
14:17<abrotman>that error doesn't seem to match the prerm
14:17<newsense>think ill delete the .pol file and the db and start over
14:18<Thornley>abrotman, Yes.
14:19<goodger>Thornley: if that's the entire file, it's definitely time to file a bug
14:19<Thornley>goodger, I've never filed a bug report before... how do I do this?
14:19<fxiny>newsense: old still good steps are : create cfgfile , create polfile , update policy then init but tripwire -m i will do
14:20<abrotman>the error doesn't really seem to match the prerm .. why would it complain about trying to create a symlink on a [ and an rm
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14:20<fxiny>newsense: also , have you checked samhain ?
14:20<newsense>let me try that i did so much just trying to figure this out i finally had it working but /proc was in the db and it was generating long report files so i edited mypol.txt and commented out /proc and this is where i am now
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14:21<goodger>abrotman: surely it should test for the existence of these files before attempting to delete them, or else it will exit with an error if the system is already in the state the script was designed to achieve
14:21<newsense>fxiny, it was mentioned in a doc i was reading but no i havent
14:21<abrotman>what does that have to do with creation error ?
14:21<fxiny>there is more to do in a default pol file like adding mail lines
14:22<goodger>abrotman: I am not entirely sure... indeed, this error doesn't match the pasted file
14:22<newsense>i know i will get there eventually i hope
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14:23<newsense>fxiny, i ran tripwire -m i and than ran check and it still reports added and removed files in /proc
14:23<fxiny>newsense: added /opt ?
14:23<abrotman>goodger: try it .. touch /tmp/foo && ln -s /tmp/foo /tmp/bar .. then `[ -h /tmp/baz/ ] && rm /tmp/bar`
14:23<fxiny>newsense: lemme see my lenny
14:23<fxiny>one minute
14:23<Thornley>goodger, abrotman , is it possible that I pasted the wrong file or?
14:23<abrotman>goodger: try it .. touch /tmp/foo && ln -s /tmp/foo /tmp/bar .. then `[ -h /tmp/baz ] && rm /tmp/bar`
14:23<Thornley>You can check the first line, that was the command that I gave.
14:23<newsense>not yet i havent added anything yet, i will add some things, the default file is a good starting point it looks like
14:24<goodger>abrotman: no error.
14:24<abrotman>Thornley: is there a /var/lib/dpkg/info/fgfs-base.postrm ?
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14:25<fxiny>newsense: while i reboot try running : tripwire --check --interactive -c /etc/tripwire/tw.cfg
14:25<newsense>fxiny, its as if its not using the modified mypol.txt to generate a new tw.pol
14:25<newsense>fxiny, ok thanks
14:25<abrotman>goodger: but the file still remains ..and it didn't try to create a symlink
14:25<abrotman>or rather .. both files stil exist
14:26<goodger>foo and bar exist in isolation, yes
14:26<Thornley>abrotman, there is none.
14:26<newsense>this took me so long that when i eventually get it working and i am taking notes ill have to reinstall as my system could have been compromised already
14:27<abrotman>goodger: now if you do the `[ -h /tmp/bar ] && rm /tmp/bar` .. the symlink will go away
14:27<abrotman>Thornley: ifyou try to remove the package ..same thing happens again ?
14:27<mrvn>abrotman: better use if, && breaks with set -e
14:27<fxiny>newsense: yes , default twpol.txt has /proc and /dev
14:27<newsense>i commented out proc
14:28<abrotman>mrvn: i'm doing what the file shows
14:28<newsense>but its still in the db and in the tw.pol im assuming
14:28<mrvn>abrotman: bad file, bad.
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14:28<abrotman>mrvn: blame your peer
14:28<fxiny>newsense: is the interactive run showing you [x] /proc entries ?
14:29<newsense>a lot as you might guess
14:29<fxiny>so you did not rebuild tw.pol
14:29<Thornley>abrotman, Yes, the same error occurs... regardless if I try to uninstall fgfs-base or flightgear.
14:29<newsense>fxiny, i tried and it seemed like it was updating, asked for local and site pass
14:29<abrotman>!dbugs 498176
14:29<dpkg>#498176:M[fgfs-base] fgfs-base: building too close to San Carlos Airport runway (); Sun, 07 Sep 2008 19:57:01 UTC []
14:30<newsense>fxiny let me run it again and ill paste the output
14:30<fxiny>newsense: try this : edit twpol.txt and reconfigure , it should pick it up
14:30<newsense>reconfigure ?
14:31<fxiny>try that
14:32<abrotman>Thornley: dpkg -l fgfs-base .. which version ?
14:33<newsense>fxiny, when you ray reconfigure you mean tripwire --update-policy -p mypol.txt
14:34<Thornley>abrotman, 1.0.0-2
14:34<abrotman>that's the current version in lenny/sid
14:34<fxiny>newsense: no , dpkg-reconfigure tripwire then tripwire -m i . old way is : after tripwire --create-polfile mypol.txt you run :tripwire --init -c /etc/tripwire/tw.cfg
14:34<newsense>ahh ok
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14:35<abrotman>Thornley: ls -l /usr/share/games/FlightGear/Timezone ... what happens
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14:37<Thornley>abrotman, "ls: cannot access ...", "No such file or directory"
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14:38<abrotman>Thornley: ln -s /usr/share/timezone /usr/share/games/FlightGear/Timezone .. then try to remove the package again
14:38<newsense>fxiny, oh man it still including /proc
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14:38<fxiny>it can't be
14:38<newsense>i swear it makes no sense to me either
14:38<newsense>im laughing in frustration right now
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14:38<fxiny>newsense: i've done my lenny tripwire yesterday and it works just fine . no bugs
14:39<newsense>guess ill have to live with it
14:39<Thornley>abrotman, same error.
14:39<fxiny>why ? check again twpol.txt
14:39<abrotman>okay .. not making any sense
14:39<newsense>ok yeah let me check that
14:39<newsense>mat have been overwritten during reconfigure maybe
14:40<abrotman>Thornley: in the prerm script .. replace the -e with -x
14:40<Thornley>abrotman, How do I do this???
14:40<Thornley>abrotman, just vim and save?
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14:40<newsense>fxiny, # /proc -> $(Device) ;
14:40<newsense>its still commented out
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14:41<abrotman>whoopse .. that should have been /usr/share/zoneinfo/
14:41<Thornley>abrotman, same error after replacing -e with -x.
14:41<abrotman>Thornley: yes
14:41<abrotman>as root
14:41<abrotman>Thornley: does it give more information though ?
14:41<newsense>fxiny, maybe you cant change the policy if the db has been created already with the default policy
14:42<newsense>fxiny, maybe i have to delete the db and create a new one now ?
14:42<fxiny>newsense: you can update it
14:42<Thornley>abrotman, It appears to be the exact same error code.
14:42<fxiny>newsense: tripwire --update-policy mypol.txt
14:42<newsense>doing it now :)
14:42<fxiny>but i think you get an error
14:42<newsense>man wish i didnt go security crazy on the pasword :)
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14:43<abrotman>Thornley: i'm going to keep looking into this .. but for you put an `exit 0` on the line after the -x
14:43<newsense>fxiny its updating
14:43<Thornley>abrotman, What's all of this mean? What's this .perm file?
14:44<newsense>fxiny, nah failed
14:44<fxiny>newsense: you can run tripwire --check -M where -M stands for mail report but you have to modify every rulename stanza
14:44<fxiny>newsense: i know it fails
14:44<abrotman>Thornley: it's a script that runs before the package contents are removed .. does things like stop services, etc ..
14:45<fxiny>newsense: do the --secure-mode low way
14:45<newsense>fxiny, ok let me give that a try
14:46<newsense>fxiny, im not really understanding whats going on and why it wont remove the /proc dir but ill do what you suggested and maybe it will work
14:47<abrotman>Thornley: all sorted out ?
14:48<newsense>fxiny, that may have worked i got no error this time
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14:48<Thornley>abrotman, great. Thanks.
14:49<abrotman>freaking huge package
14:49<newsense>fxiny, thanks for all the help that actually worked :)
14:49<fxiny>newsense: yes ? time to start all over again : you might like this when running tripwire --check -M . you have the ( ... rulename , after $(SIGH_HI) add a comma > $(SIGH_HI), and after that a new line emailto = before the closing )
14:50<newsense>fxiny, do you keepo your tripwire db and bin on non-writable media
14:50<fxiny>newsense: this way you get mail report
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14:50<fxiny>newsense: i keep it safe
14:51<newsense>im going to move the db after i fine tune my setup should i move the bin too ?
14:51<mrvn>you should have a bootable medium with the bin and db and only boot that without network access.
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14:52<lsf08syf0sy>anyone get ff3 running on etch?
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14:52<newsense>if i do move the bin should i create a symlink to the bin if i move it ?
14:52<fxiny>why moving the bin ?
14:52<newsense>fxiny, dont want it to not run when cron tries to run a check
14:53<newsense>fxiny, it was recommended in a few docs
14:53<newsense>fxiny, think just moving the db is good enough ?
14:53<mrvn>so some hacker can go and change the link to a hacked binary?
14:53<newsense>true but i could check the link and make sure it points to the real bin
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14:54<mrvn>newsense: how would you know? It could show you one thing but use another.
14:54<newsense>guess i could check the checksum too if i dont move it
14:54<fxiny>newsense: in the end this are all bullshit , if you want a *real* baseliner use ftimes
14:54<newsense>didnt know it was possible to make symlinks that point to other than what they say interesting
14:55<mrvn>newsense: a hacked kernel can do anything
14:55<newsense>ftimes ill look into that never heard of it
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14:55<fxiny>newsense: samhain aide tripwire are ids , ftimes is a baseliner
14:56<newsense>thanks fxiny mrvn , thought this would be a nice easy solution to monitor file changes ut i gues im taking it too far now :)
14:56<fxiny>no one can mess with ftimes , you don't install it you just run and move off
14:56<mrvn>newsense: you have to realize that doing a security check from a compromised system is eventually useless. You will only catch the stupid hacks.
14:56<fxiny>newsense: like aide version on floppy , that was good
14:57<newsense>no package for ftimes in lenny huh
14:57<fxiny>newsense: look into samhain , it runs nice , a bit hard to update . very good docs
14:57<fxiny>newsense: yes no packages
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14:58<newsense>i will thanks looking at the info for samhain now
14:59<abrotman>lsf08syf0sy: you can't, it requires a newer version of gtk
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14:59<newsense>might as well stick to tripwire on this box for now since i pt so much time into it but i think ill try samhain when i get my backup server
14:59<lsf08syf0sy>abrotman: so i'm stuck with ff2
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15:00<abrotman>or go to lenny
15:00<lsf08syf0sy>meh. i'll wait
15:01<fxiny>newsense: tripwire is good , AFAIK ain't changed at all in years , is a bit heavy , samhain is light and it does more tricks . read the docs
15:01<abrotman>you'll be waiting til lenny is released then
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15:01<lsf08syf0sy>yeah. i know. what's that url that tells the progress on lenny?
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15:02<newsense>fxiny, reading up oon it now and yeah it does sound nice, only reason i started using tripwire is i installed harden and it was a depend and ive heard of it many years ago
15:02<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
15:02<dima1236>what is the command to search?
15:02<dima1236>!search bonding
15:02<abrotman>!tell dima1236 about search
15:02<abrotman>!tell dima1236 about bonding
15:02<abrotman>!tell lsf08syf0sy about wwlr
15:03<mcprtk>is dpkg a bot? just asking, im new here!
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15:03<abrotman>lsf08syf0sy: roughly .. when all the RC bugs are gone
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15:04<Tarcas>mcprtk: heis.
15:04<Tarcas>he is
15:04<mcprtk>thnx tarcas
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15:09<fxiny>newsense: take it easy , no paranoia , enjoy life . keep your backups at hand ;)
15:10<newsense>yeah ill be more at ease when i get a backup server in the next few weeks :)
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15:12<mcprtk>check this out, this is funny!
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15:14<kdas>can some one help me and explain to me why when i upgraded to kernel 2.6.28 that my framebuffer modes are only 60x80 and under rather then normal 640x480 etc?
15:14<enouf>kdas: compare configs
15:15<kdas>enouf, i based it off my old config
15:15<enouf>grep -E 'FRAMEBUFFER|FB|CONSOLE' /boot/config-... well your .28 won't be there, b/c there is none
15:16<kdas>there is none what?
15:16<enouf>kdas: also, did you older kernel lines have vga=NNN where NNN=791 or 0x0319 or something?
15:16<Tarcas>!tell me about bonding
15:17<kdas>enouf, well i added the same lines vga=0x312
15:17<enouf>there is no Debian .28 linux-image-2.6.28-whatever
15:17<enouf>though you could have made one, i guess
15:17<abrotman>!tell Tarcas about selftell
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15:17<fxiny>enouf: going away , catch you morrow morning ;)
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15:18<kdas>enouf, i compiled 2.6.28 kernel
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15:21<kdas>enouf, here is my config greped for FB. i have a nvidia 9300 g card
15:21<enouf>no good
15:21<enouf>comparisons needed
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15:21<enouf>and more than FB
15:22<kdas>enouf, well the other kernel was stock kernel 2.6.26-1-686
15:22<kdas>enouf, what do you need more then FB?
15:22<kdas>enouf, i used this commnad grep -E 'FRAMEBUFFER|FB|CONSOLE for that output
15:22<enouf>run the egrep i mentioned on each , then diff the two
15:23<enouf>well FB != what i said - but now you say you did more
15:23<kdas>enouf, i removed stock kernel... do you have stock 686 kernel ?
15:25<tuxcrafter>hi all how can i add comments to my apt.conf
15:25-!-newsense [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:25<tuxcrafter>i get errors with that config
15:25<goodger>tuxcrafter: prefix the commented lines with #
15:26<goodger>oh, sorry, wrong file.
15:27<tuxcrafter>E: Syntax error /etc/apt/apt.conf:11: Extra junk after value
15:27<tuxcrafter>that is the error i get
15:27<kdas>enouf, you AFK?
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15:28<tuxcrafter>why is there flash spam on debian pastebin ...
15:28<abrotman>which URL?
15:28<tuxcrafter>ow it is not debian project
15:29<enouf>kdas: yep
15:29<enouf>kdas: i was, and i do
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15:29<chealer>tuxcrafter: add a line starting with "//"
15:29<kdas>enouf, well can you egrep your config and pastebin it or diff against mine ?
15:30<tuxcrafter>chealer: thank that did it
15:30<enouf>kdas: i'll pastebin it for ya sure
15:30<tuxcrafter>is it perl or something else?
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15:30<kdas>enouf, ok thanks
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15:30<kdas>enouf, just egrep with same comand "grep -E 'FRAMEBUFFER|FB|CONSOLE"
15:31<tuxcrafter>hmm i was hoping APT::Default-Release "testing"; will overrule policy in preferences
15:31<tuxcrafter>Pin-Priority: 100 i mean
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15:31<enouf>kdas: uh .. no shit ;-)
15:31<tuxcrafter>i was hoping the default-release was making it 500
15:31<enouf>"grep -E 'FRAMEBUFFER|FB|CONSOLE' /boot/config-2.6.26-1-686"
15:31<enouf>Your paste URL is:
15:33<sime>how come i dont have the little pinguin when I boot since a kernel update?
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15:35<enouf>kdas: CONFIG_FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE=m might be the issue - mine's =y
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15:36<chealer>sime: which little pinguin!
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15:37<kdas>enouf, is that the only difference? i was also thinking that maybe vesa and vga? cuz i have that on "n" but i do have the nvidia support so i don't know
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15:38<xlotlu>is it possible to somehow "re-initialize" a pci device from userspace?
15:38<enouf>kdas: dunno, you can see the diffs
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15:39<kdas>enouf, don't know quite how to read the diff output
15:39<enouf>xlotlu: well .. depends
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15:40<enouf>xlotlu: many times. yes. through /sys or utils
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15:41<xlotlu>enouf: my problem is i don't get any sound from my speakers after s3 sleep, although everything "works"
15:41<xlotlu>i was thinking of forcing hotplugging on the sound card
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15:41<enouf>think of modprobe {-r} instead
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15:42<xlotlu>that's part of its "working". doesn't help. everything ok, just no sounds from speakers
15:43<kdas>enouf, is there a way to set/list FB devices?
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15:44<xlotlu>kdas: cat /proc/fb
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15:45<xlotlu>kdas: and fbset
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15:45<kdas>xlotlu, thanks
15:46<tuxcrafter>how i seem to be wrong iabout the APT::Default-Release priority
15:46<tuxcrafter>sorry for the fuss, i made a mistake
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15:50<kdas>enouf, xlotlu, fbset
15:50<kdas>open /dev/fb0: No such file or directory
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15:52<xlotlu>kdas: you're obviously not using a framebuffer
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15:55<kdas>xlotlu, yea thats the problem. i upgraded my kernel to 2.6.28 and it broke the FB. how can i use probe a FB ? I have an nvidia card i know in my kernel config i did not set vga or vesa but i did set nvidia driver support
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15:59<xlotlu>kdas: if you compiled that as a module, modprobe nvidiafb
16:00<kdas>xlotlu, ok that worked but same error with fbset
16:00<xlotlu>kdas: but odds are you really don't want to do that. because you won't be able to use X with the accelerated closed-source nvidia driver
16:01<xlotlu>kdas: you need to mknod it
16:01<kdas>xlotlu, what now ? i can't use closed nvida drivers with the FB ?
16:01<xlotlu>kdas: nope
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16:02<xlotlu>kdas: so what you want is to compile the VESA fb, probably built-in. and forget about nvidia fb
16:02<kdas>xlotlu, then how was it before ? using the vga/vesa? because before i had the framebuffer working fine with qingy links2 and also nvidia drivers
16:02<enouf>kdas: you didn't know? nvidiafb + nvidia 3D no play nice
16:03<kdas>enouf, nope but now i do
16:03<xlotlu>kdas: exactly
16:03<kdas>xlotlu, ok thanks... time to recompile....
16:03<kdas>xlotlu, i wish there was a way to test my webcam last time in 2.6.26 asus f9sg don't work nice
16:03<enouf>i told you this 15-20 minutes ago
16:05<kdas>enouf, told me what? about the vga/vesa? no you didn't
16:06<enouf>and if you were going to use nvidiafb, you wouldn't use riva, and would change this CONFIG_FB_NVIDIA=m to =y, and use a video=nvidiafb... option in your kernel line
16:06<kdas>enouf, oh i didn't see that
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16:07<enouf>kdas: no, earlier, i said about CONFIG_FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE=m needing to be =y .. for VESA stuffs. that's so you can use the video=vesafb and stuffs lines for various ones
16:07<xlotlu>meh. i want sound without having to hibernate after sleep. time to submit a bug to alsa
16:08<enouf>meh, craptops
16:09-!-South [~Rafael@] has joined #debian
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16:09<South>I'm uinable to connect to my friends's network
16:09<South>using iwlwifi
16:10<enouf>welcome kdas
16:10<xlotlu>i love my craptop. (well, except for when the nvidia gpu decides to get 100°C). i think this sleep-no-sound mess started at about 2.6.24
16:10<South>i was checking man iwconfig and followed instructions on the debian wiki however it simply doesn't connect
16:11<South>amphi, you helped me with this situation once :/
16:12<Unixmen_net>South, im using wifi-radar is working fine for me
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16:14<South>Unixmen_net, i can see the network but i'm unable to associate
16:14<Unixmen_net>do u know ssid nework before ?
16:15<Unixmen_net>is you wifi card detected from your pc ?
16:15-!-goodger [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:16<Unixmen_net>is the network crypted with a password ?
16:16-!-kdas [] has joined #debian
16:16<South>yes and have already confirmed the key
16:17<kdas>xlotlu, when i startx it gives me an error that type1 module not found is this an X issue or something to do with kernel ?
16:17<Unixmen_net>South, can y ping the router IP ?
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16:19<abrotman>wtf is wrong with your space bar?
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16:21<enouf>abrotman: the only other one with the spacebar handicap that i know of is Agiofws
16:21<Unixmen_net>South, iwlist eth1 scan (Replace eth1 with your wifi device.)
16:22<kdas>does some one want to help me out with my webcam on asusf9sg /?
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16:24<Southafrikanse>Unixmen_net, sorry. I pressed the off button accidently
16:25<Southafrikanse>Unixmen_net, everything is configured
16:25<Southafrikanse>how can I restart?
16:25<Unixmen_net>Ok . greets
16:25<Southafrikanse>Unixmen_net, how can i restart the network
16:25<Unixmen_net>of just /etc/init.d/network restart
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16:26<abrotman>/etc/init.d/networking restart
16:26<abrotman>and FIX your spacebar
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16:27<Southafrikanse>Unixmen_net, I'm still unable to connect to the wireless network
16:28<Southafrikanse>let me restart
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16:45<Dracie>should the debian etch skype package work fine on lenny?
16:47<abrotman>no idea, ask them
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16:55<Dracie>yeah etch worked
16:55<Dracie>just needed to make sure i had libqt4 and dependencies installed
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17:05<icf7>my Sid install hangs when I hibernate, resume, and switch to X (or resume from X). Without further information, I deem it pointless to file a bug. How do I debug a resume?
17:06<icf7>s/resume from X/hibernate from X/
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17:18<juhrinek>Ahojky, mluvite tu nekdo cesky?
17:19<juhrinek>Je tu nekdo, jsem tu poprve, neznam to.
17:19<dpkg>cz is probably Czech Republic. Kanal pro cechy je #debian-cz
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17:23<Thornley>Hello I'm trying to play an .avi file but I'm getting a thick green line on the left hand side of the screen when I try to play it with mplayer. I've never had this happen before; could anyone offer me some help?
17:23<Thornley>I believe this problem may have to do with the RGB being out of sync... but I've no idea how to correct this.
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17:33<Tarcas>Thornley: Does the line appear when you play other videos?
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17:35<Thornley>Tarcas, there's just two videos (both from the same source) with which this problem appears. I haven't noticed it on anything else.
17:35<Thornley>Tarcas, Others haven't had problems with these videos though.
17:35<Tarcas>Try a video that works elsewhere, from a different source. It may be encoded poorly, and we can't troubleshoot your computer if that's the case.
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17:40<abrotman>try another player like totem or xine or vlc
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17:41<Thornley>abrotman, does vlc need any additional package to play .avi? When I launch it I just get audio, no video.
17:42<abrotman>avi is a container .. depends ont he actual contents
17:43<Thornley>abrotman, tried it with totem. It's looks exactly the same.
17:45<abrotman>might be using one of the win32 codecs
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18:04<brain>Hey whats up, new to linux here
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18:05<Tarcas>How ya doing, brain? If you've got a question, ask away.
18:06<brain>Well, I do have on question right off the top. Is there a way to run the latest version of itunes on here?
18:06<Tarcas>um... Never tried iTunes under Linux. I suspect if you run it in wine it should work.
18:07<dpkg>it has been said that wine is packaged in the 'wine' package., #winehq ( Stands for Wine Is Not an Emulator. A not so buggy anymore alternative win32 API, or a tasty alcoholic beverage.
18:07<gravity>You probably don't want to run it though
18:07<gravity>brain: Do you just want iTunes for playing music?
18:07<brain>No, I have to have it for my iPhone
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18:09<gravity>brain: For syncing? I don't have an Iphone, but it looks like amarok can sync to an iphone. You should google for a reasonable solution though.
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18:09<gravity>brain: As Tarcas said, you can try wine, which claims to support iTunes, but wine is historically problematic.
18:09<gravity>brain: So you may want to try other things first
18:10<gravity>But if they don't do it for you, then wine may be your best bet
18:10<brain>Thanks for the help ill try whatever i can find really the main reason is because u have to update the phone through itunes
18:10<Tarcas>I'd start with Amarok, or google alternatives before trying wine.
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18:11<abrotman>rhythmbox should also work
18:11<gravity>Yeah, I'd google around. You know more about the iPhone than I do, so you'll probably understand what you read beter
18:12<brain>i gotcha, im sure u can find something lol i know windows backwards and forwards lol now im starting all over
18:12<Tarcas>You also know what features you need to work. Some apps may not be able to update everything for whatever reason, and you'll be able to find that out.
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18:12<abrotman>i heard it's made by the devil and comes in four colors!
18:12<mark_>Also, iTunes 7.4.2 does not work under Wine, also, Wine does not support iPod syncing, much less iPhone syncing.
18:12<evertt_zufelt>I installed debian using debootstrap onto an ext3 partition. I notice that there are no /dev/sdaX devices. Any suggestions?
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18:13<brain>als a program called frstwire i downloaded and installed and the app wont run
18:13<evertt_zufelt>Essentially what I am asking here is how to make the new debian installation bootable?
18:13<Tarcas>evertt_zufelt: Do you have an sda installed?
18:14<evertt_zufelt>Tarcas: Ubuntu seems to think so. From Ubuntu the debian partition is /dev/sda7
18:14<Tarcas>It's entirely possible that you have an hd instead of sd, or that you're on, say, sdc instead of sda.
18:16<Tarcas>Might take a look in /dev/disk/by-path/ and see what's there.
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18:22<evertt_zufelt>Tarcas: Looks like I need to run MAKEDEV to create the devices. I tried "MAKEDEV generic" but got an error about udevdb or udev. Any thoughts?
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18:23<Tarcas>...sorry, no. I've never had to makedev.
18:23<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, makedev is fixed now
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18:29<acu>guys - is there a voice chat which can be used in debian ?
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18:29<evertt_zufelt>Is anyone familiar with how to create devices on a system with udev installed? I am missing /dev/sda and several other devices.
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18:33<evertt_zufelt>Tarcas: FYI, from the host OS "mount -o bind /dev /path/to/debian/dev
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18:34<Tarcas>Isn't that binding automatic?
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18:36<evertt_zufelt>Tarcas: apparently not. I think I'm pretty close to booting. Any idea how I get the new partition to be listed in grub / to be bootable?
18:37<Tarcas>That's an option when you format it. If it's not there, I'm not sure how to add it later, but it's most likely possible.
18:39<mrvn>cfdisk, sfdisk or fdisk
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18:40<mrvn>Depends on your bios and mbr if you need it though.
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18:43<evertt_zufelt>mrvn: To catch you up, I have Ubuntu installed on a partition and it's grub is what loads at boot. I have installed debian using debootstrap onto a new partition from within ubuntu. Any suggestions on how to get debian /dev/sda7 to be recognized by Ubuntu's grub so that it can boot?
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18:45<Tarcas>is grub configured to look into /dev/sda7/?
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18:47<streuner>Why do you think you need both distros, out of curisity?
18:47<zugzug>I have a weird prob. Quad 6600 shows up as running at 1600MHz natively (should be 2.4ghz)
18:47<evertt_zufelt>Tarcas: I can configure that, but don't I need more information for Ubuntu's grub menu?
18:47<zugzug>and shows up as 2ghz when I overclock to 3ghz
18:47<zugzug>what gives?
18:48<evertt_zufelt>streuner: I needed ubuntu to get debian installed. I am completely blind and debian doesn't have any accessible isntallation options.
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18:50<hdon>hi all. can anyone confirm this bug in libc?
18:50<hdon>i was able to produce that output on Etch, and the report that inspired me to try it was done on Sid
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18:50<abrotman>hdon: so it's confirmed ?
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18:51<hdon>abrotman: only by me ;)
18:51<Tarcas>yes evertt_zufelt: title, root and kernel are what I have configured in grub. title you can make up. root is the disk. kernel is a path to the kernel and the /dev/???? path to the /
18:52<abrotman>faults here too
18:52<abrotman>hdon: isn't that supposed to take a string ?
18:52<abrotman>or char* ?
18:52<hdon>abrotman: no, it tests a single charater
18:52<hdon>abrotman: that was my first guess though too when i heard it segfaulted ;)
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18:53<abrotman>so .. it's not a single character ?
18:53<hdon>man page says int isalnum(int c);
18:53<hdon>i'll check the actual header
18:54<hdon>#define __exctype(name) extern int name (int) __THROW
18:54<hdon>__exctype (isalnum);
18:55<hdon>seems to match the man page
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18:55<themill>1073741864 isn't a valid int though
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18:56<hdon>themill: looks valid to me
18:56<hdon>>>> math.log(1073741864, 2)
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18:57<themill>bah.. my fubar... you're right.
18:57*themill failed at grouping digits
18:58<hdon>that number is far too long for me to do anything with it mentally
18:58<themill>hdon: you used python for that? oh dear...
18:58*hdon loves python
18:58*themill hands hdon a slide rule
18:59<themill>hdon: actually, the man page says that the argument must be an unsigned char not an int.
19:00<hdon>themill: not my man page. nor my header file. what version of libc are you using?
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19:00<themill>hdon: man 3 isalnum on lenny
19:01<hdon>themill: ah. i'm on Etch. can you check /usr/include/ctypes.h and see what *that* says?
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19:02<Strikr>Hey everyone
19:02<Strikr>I have a quick question.
19:02<hdon>thanks for the info themill. did you try the code i posted? does it segfault on lenny?
19:02<hdon>abrotman: what version of debian did you duplicate the isalnum() segfault on?
19:02<abrotman>lenny ..
19:02<themill>hdon: I think abrotman tested that for you
19:02<Strikr>Where are the location of the error logs?
19:03<themill>hdon: there's no ctypes.h in lenny
19:03<hdon>themill: ah, well wherever it resides
19:03<Strikr>lol, thanks abrotman. Can you tell i've been at this for 2 days straight =P
19:03<abrotman>Strikr: looking for logs?
19:07<themill>hdon: looks the same. but note that the man page specifies that c has to be an unsigned char although the type is int. That number is certainly too big for being an unsigned char.
19:07<themill>hdon: (that man page looks the same in both etch and lenny)
19:08<Strikr>abrotman: no, I've been working working for 2 days straight trying to do a crapload of stuff. Right now I am trying to setup a phpbbforum and its not working
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19:10<Strikr>I have not done anything in linux since fedora 6. Trying to setup this forum is just a pain in the ass
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19:20<hdon>themill: that's not a meaningless observation, but it seems unreasonable that the penalty is segfault
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19:24<themill>hdon: well... if there's no input checking because the programmer has promised to only give an unsigned char as input, then that would be a fairly standard C approach... having said that, a segfault is an unusual failure mode for such a problem and I can't see why it isn't done as a compile time contract by specifying the correct type rather than int.
19:25<hdon>themill: i suspect that the reasoning for that is that the function prototype needs to meet with some old standard
19:25<hdon>themill: beside that, the 'int' type will compile to the most convenient size of data that the CPU can throw around. it's probably a little more efficient that way.
19:27<themill>old standard is most likely.... but it means that you don't have the benefits of compiler-enforced checks... you have to make sure you only pass it a number from 0 to 255 as per the docs.
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19:29<valdyn>maybe you really would want to use iswalnum anyway
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19:36<hdon>valdyn: good suggestion
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19:37<mfroment_>hi all
19:37<mfroment_>is there some grub expert?
19:37<mfroment_>I really need help..
19:37<abrotman>and if there were ?
19:38<mfroment_>sorry for my poor english
19:38<hdon>mfroment_: you're doing fine so far ;)
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19:38<mfroment_>I've destroy my grub...
19:38<hdon>(better than i am.. hope nobody caught that)
19:38<mfroment_>I've boot with the rescue cd
19:39<mfroment_>chroot to my /dev/sda1
19:39<mfroment_>/dev/sda1 is my root partition
19:39-!-craigevil [~craigevil@] has joined #debian
19:40<mfroment_>but when I make a "grub-install /dev/sda"
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19:41<mfroment_>I've the error : Connot find a GRUB drive for /dev/scs/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/disc
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19:41<mfroment_>any ideas?
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19:44<Tuplad>I would like to umount this without logging out from my account, how do I do it correctly (I was thinking of sudo umount but I'm afraid I might screw something up): /dev/hdd on /media/cdrom0 type udf (ro,noexec,nosuid,nodev,user=zarinda)
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19:45<Strikr>Tuplad, unmount what?
19:46<abrotman>Tuplad: find out whatis using it
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19:46<Tuplad>abrotman: only user zarinda can umount it
19:46<Tuplad>Strikr: /dev/hdd on /media/cdrom0 type udf (ro,noexec,nosuid,nodev,user=zarinda)
19:46<Tuplad>abrotman: it's my gf's account
19:47<abrotman>she's controlling your machine!
19:47<abrotman>and you can force the umount
19:47<Tuplad>noooo! I'm doomed!
19:47<Tuplad>can I ?
19:47<amphi>or kill the process that's using it
19:47<Strikr>with root you should be able to do what abrotman said
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19:47<Tuplad>amphi: no process
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19:47<Tuplad>amphi: says I can't umount it, only user zarinda can
19:48<Tuplad>I'll just sudo umount it
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19:48<amphi>I'd assumed you'd donned the garb of root
19:49<Tuplad>amphi: pardon ?
19:49<s3a>does debian lenny have wireless drivers built-in if it's not proprietary???
19:49<chahibi>built in what?
19:49<amphi>Tuplad: sorry - I thought you were root in any case
19:50<amphi>for umounting purposes
19:50<hdon>s3a: you'll probably have to build the appropriate kernel modules with module-assistant
19:50<s3a>chahibi, im just asking because my airlink 101 AWLH3026T card worked out of the box, and I didn't have to do anything (i had to put drivers for my pvrevious card)
19:50<s3a>hdon, im just asking a theoretical question, i dont have a problem but thx :)
19:51<chahibi>s3a, it must built in the bluray Debian disks :)
19:51<hdon>there are bluray debian install media?
19:51<s3a>chahibi, i used DVD but there is blu-ray now????
19:51<s3a>chahibi, is there dual layer dvd or only single layer?
19:52<s3a>chahibi, is there rely blu ray or r u jk?
19:52<Tuplad>amdgoon: aah :)
19:52<Tuplad>oh well, thanks for the help !
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19:55<s3a>chahibi, that's amazing but im not buying blu-ray until the next best thing comes out (bargain shopper lol) anyway, any news on dual-layer dvd or is it still going to be only single?
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19:57<chahibi>s3a, isn't possible to burn two DVD isos in a DL DVD?
19:57<s3a>chahibi, two single's r slightly bigger than 1 dual
19:58<s3a>chahibi, well i guess ill stick to DVD (singles) for now (i have ~150 blank ones now)
19:58<chahibi>s3a, lucky guy
19:59<chahibi>s3a, blanks are expensive in France
19:59<s3a>chahibi, lol i pay 23 cents per disc so again, bargain shopper :)
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19:59<chahibi>s3a, I should order some from germany
19:59<evertt_zufelt>Once I have the base of sid installed how do I install experimental packages?
19:59<s3a>chahibi, lol my "condolences" and i buy them from store and now i think i found memorex ~15$ for 100 but im not buying cuz i alredy have enuf
20:00<evertt_zufelt>What package do I need for the minimal install of the gnome desktop, no e-mail / games?
20:00<s3a>chahibi, im just waiting for duals to be super cheap
20:00<s3a>evertt_zufelt, just dont select graphic environment when installing with normal disc
20:01<evertt_zufelt>s3a: I'm installing from debootstrap and want a minimal gnome install.
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20:03<s3a>evertt_zufelt, o sorry i dont no how to do any of that but if u havent found this alredy it might help:
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20:05<abrotman>!install gnome
20:05<dpkg>To install GNOME on sarge or later, install the 'gnome' package to install everything, the 'gnome-desktop-environment' package for slightly less stuff, or the 'gnome-core' package for even less. You will need X installed as well, ask me about <set up x>.
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20:07<evertt_zufelt>abrotman: Thanks, looks like I'm looking for gnome-core
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20:50<RedLance>Who here is familiar with ppp servers?
20:51<dpkg>"Does anyone have X or use Y?" is taking a poll, not asking a valid question. Don't do it or sussudio's army of militant badgers will hurt you. Also see <ask> and <bad polls>
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20:57<RedLance>Ok fine.
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21:00<RedLance>I'm setting up a ppp server for my Tivo to dial out through. I have a P II 266 with 96MB ram, and a 2 gig HD, with a fresh install of the latest Debian, done with a net install CD, so it just has the minimal stuff on it, no X or anything. I installed a hardware 8bit ISA modem, USR Sportster, with jumpers set to COM3 IRQ 4. I followed the instructions here: and it still won't connect. I can put up a p
21:00<RedLance>I can even let someone ssh in if they think they need to
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21:02<abrotman>you got cutoff
21:02<abrotman>connect. I can put up a p
21:02<abrotman>RedLance: shouldn't it be like a dial on demand kiknd of thing ?
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21:05<RedLance>abortman: I can put up a pastebin of any file that anyone would like to look at.
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21:06*abrotman thinks this is a lot of work for a tivo
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21:06<RedLance>abrotman: Dial on demand? Well, the ppp server is connected to the internet by ethernet over my DSL line. The Tivo dials into it by way of it's internal modem, to the modem in the ppp server using a ring down unit inbetween
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21:07<RedLance>abrotman: It may be alot of work for a tivo, but I have 2, and nothing better to do.
21:07<RedLance>2 tivo's that is
21:07<abrotman>you're going to have to find some errors in your system logs
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21:08<RedLance>abrotman: Well, I'm looking at the mgetty log, but I don't know if this is errors or normal...
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21:09<abrotman>so pastebin it i guess .. though i likely won't be much help
21:09<abrotman>and FYI .. don't offer random people on IRC an account on your system
21:09<abrotman>did you try to contact that adam hull guy ?
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21:11<RedLance>abrotman: No, I haven't contacted him yet, though I probably will.
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21:14<abrotman>seems like the chat script is failing
21:14<abrotman>waykaat: /quit
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21:15<RedLance>abrotman: Do I even need a chat script?
21:17<abrotman>it would appear so
21:17<abrotman>probably get more help if you emailed that guy
21:19<RedLance>abrotman: Ok, thanks.
21:20<abrotman>or you can ask again later .. or try the debian-user mailing list
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21:22<RedLance>abrotman: Is there maybe another channel that would be better?
21:22<abrotman>you could try the #debian on freenode
21:23<abrotman>just remember it's saturday .. not many active people
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21:27<Strikr>Hey Everyone
21:27<mgoetze>RedLance: uh, so, the tivo has a modem and no other networking?
21:27<Strikr>Does anyone know the location of the php.ini file?
21:27<abrotman>Strikr: /etc/php5/ or so
21:28<Strikr>not there
21:29<RedLance>mgoetze: Correct
21:29<abrotman>Strikr: find /etc/ -name php.ini
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21:30<Strikr>forgot the find command. Thank you abrotman
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21:44<Tarca1>Why would a newly compiled kernel hang when loading syslogd? It's not a panic, as it responds to the keyboard (^C prints to the screen, ctrl-alt-del reboots, I can even switch to and back from other VTs though they are blank except for VT1). It just stops proceeding through the kernel messages.
21:44<daniel66123>francais ou englais ici ??
21:45<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr sur French users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr on
21:45<Supaplex>Tarca1: strace it?
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21:46<hdon>hi all. is there a program in Etch for recording desktop video? (like, video of a graphical application running in X)
21:46<hdon>abrotman: thanks
21:46<Tarca1>Supaplex: how would I go about that if it hangs during boot?
21:47<Supaplex>Tarca1: deactivate the startup scripts
21:47<Supaplex>!tell Tarca1 -about single
21:47-!-Tarca1 is now known as Tarcas
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21:48<abrotman>or fix your kernel
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21:49<Tarcas>abrotman: that's the end goal.
21:50<kdas>can some one help me with FB. i have a /dev/mice that is set for my xorg.conf and works fine, but in framebuffer my mouse dosent work. does any one know which setting i should have for that?
21:52<kdas>yea i am using gpm fine
21:52<Supaplex>does framebuffer mean console, or xorg-ish?
21:53<kdas>but when i use links2 on the FB mouse don't work
21:53<kdas>xorg server = fine
21:54<Supaplex>elinks sometimes cares what my $TERM is. other than that, I'd poke in and around the client settings.
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21:55<kdas>second i will get the error
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21:58<kdas>Supaplex, whats the config file for FB ?
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22:04<kdas>ok here it is /etc/vga/libvga.config that is the file
22:04<kdas>Supaplex, that is where i don't know how to set mouse properly at
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22:09<Tarcas>I think I found my kernel issue. BRB. Rebooting.
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22:19-!-mode/#debian [+l 347] by debhelper
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22:52-!-liquid is "(unknown)" on (unknown)
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23:00<adb>oops , sorry
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23:27<ranix>man pork chops and ovaltine
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23:27<ranix>bachelor chow strikes again at 11pm
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---Logclosed Sun Jan 04 00:00:24 2009