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#debian IRC Logs for 2009-01-04

---Logopened Sun Jan 04 00:00:24 2009
---Daychanged Sun Jan 04 2009
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00:42<diego222>hi there
00:42<diego222>anyone knows any irc channel to ask tax questions or anyone here is a tax professional :S
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00:44<Supaplex>no, but I'll sell you my copy of tax cut right after I use it once. :P
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00:46<diego222>Supaplex: you shouldn't do that
00:46<diego222>it has your SSN onit
00:46<Supaplex>the day the read only media of cd does that, we're doomed anyway
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01:29<kdas>whats a good multi protocol LITE im client?
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01:30<kdas>i liked sim but it has some bug on the yahoo protocol
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01:32<craigevil>finch or just use irssi with bitlbee
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02:05<greeq>i hate linux.. i want to take a shit in the kernel\
02:06<craigevil>!ops greeq troll
02:06<dpkg>Hydroxide, bob2, caphuso, dondelelcaro, doogie, eeyore-, ElectricElf, ):, helix, ljlane, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, Netsnipe, TML, walters, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Alife, Myon, Ganneff, Maulkin, weasel, zobel: craigevil complains about: greeq troll
02:06<greeq>wtf ?
02:08<ike>what, i thought trolls only existed in the amiga community
02:08<craigevil>when you type the same crap in multiple channels on different irc servers either your a troll or an idiot, and you just typed the same thing in both #debian channels
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02:09<ike>idiot troll then
02:09<greeq>i wanted my voice to be heard in both channels... simple
02:09<ike>atleast he's not yapping about linux not existing :D
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02:10<edgher>hi, anyone using ubuntu here?
02:10<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
02:11<fxiny>linux not existing ? another <dm>-troll ? >
02:12<Supaplex>ike: so where's phase2?
02:12<Supaplex>edgher: no, I upgraded. I use debian.
02:12<ike>phase 2 of what? trolling?
02:13<Supaplex>ike: ipsec. ike is phase1
02:13<ike>i havent gotten into ipsec actually
02:14<ike>beating my head against a debian install on a ps3 currently
02:14<Supaplex>humm I should fire mine up
02:14<Supaplex>actually, I should look at the 60gb ntsc one and fix it up
02:14<ike>i lost all keyboard/mouse input after updating ;\
02:14<ike>i think its udev
02:15<ike>and the latest precompiled kernel i could find was missing a module
02:15<ike>and for some reason i cant seem to compile a working kernel myself either ;\
02:15<Supaplex>ike: did you /msg dpkg kp ?
02:15<ike>mm nope
02:15<ike>now i have
02:16<ike>ah no i go trough make oldconfig make menuconfig make blaah
02:16<ike>isnt there a way of having debian build itself from source too?
02:17<ike>hm, worth a shot that command tho
02:18<Supaplex>compiling all software is a genpoo thingy
02:18<ike>true, the ps3 might gain a bit by optimizing tho
02:18<ike>heck so would this athlon
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02:20<Supaplex>let me know how much runtime you save, and how much time was spent recompling and waiting before you could make those gains. I suspect it's <diminishing returns>
02:25<fxiny>digital inflation ? :P
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02:27<sixfu>Hi. I am trying to only allow login to a given service using pam (dovecot) to users in a special group. I tried adding 'auth required group=foo' to /etc/pam.d/dovecot but then login is always forbidden, even for users who have 'foo' as their primary group. What am I doing wrong?
02:29<fxiny>wheel ? add a wheel group and add user to wheel
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02:29<fxiny>same as for ssh
02:29<Supaplex>that's a seperate issue :)
02:29<sixfu>I am supplying the group=foo option to
02:29<fxiny>common-auth:auth requisite group=wheel debug
02:29<sixfu>because I don't want to use the wheel group but 'foo'
02:30<fxiny>foo ? wt4x !
02:30<fxiny>why not spit puke or something like that ?
02:30<sixfu>it's just a variable, it's not like it matters that it's actually 'imapusers' :)
02:31*Supaplex laughs milk though his nose all over fxiny, per previous request ;)
02:32<sixfu>anyway, changing required to requisite didn't change anything, as expected. reading up on the debug option
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02:34<yhlfh>where to translate debian package description
02:34<fxiny>sixfu: as Supaplex was saying there is more to do . ssh wants > sshd_config:AllowGroups wheel admin
02:34<fxiny>and /etc/sshusers-allowed
02:34<fxiny>read debian docs
02:34<sixfu>fxiny: well, as I said, it's not about ssh, it's for dovecot..
02:35<sixfu>and as I also said, everything works fine as soon as I remove that line from my pam.d/dovecot
02:35<fxiny>sixfu: why should i install dovecot to test wheel with ? must be similar
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02:35<sixfu>fxiny: huh?
02:36<sixfu>fxiny: I'm just telling you that dovecot is not the problem since it works as soon as I take that one line out of my pam configuration :)
02:36<fxiny>you hack pam and you tell your daemon to follow
02:36<sixfu>so it's really just a question of how to configure pam to only authenticate users belonging to a certain group
02:36<fxiny>sixfu: be careful with pam . a wrong line in a conf can shut you off
02:37<sixfu>you're not helping. :)
02:37<sixfu>also, as I said a few times now, I am working on pam.d/dovecot :)
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02:37<sixfu>not common-auth or anything like that, which could keep me from logging in via ssh or something like that :)
02:38<sixfu>gotta love irc. instead of getting help, you end up explaining what you're trying to do over and over again 8)
02:38<fxiny>sixfu: ssh ? only if you edit sshd_config
02:38<sixfu>dude. really.
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02:38<fxiny>if you don't wheel is useless
02:39<sixfu>I'm not talking about ssh
02:39<ike>Supaplex, heh, well, good point
02:39<sixfu>I just said, I am NOT doing anything that will mess with my being able to login via ssh
02:39<sixfu>as I am NOT changing ANYTHING related to ssh :)
02:39<fxiny>who cares ? did you know how the pam/weel thing works with ssh ?
02:39<sixfu>I have no idea where you got that ssh idea in the first place :)
02:40<sixfu>why would I? :)
02:40<fxiny>sixfu: from the official debian docs
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02:40<sixfu>It's all about dovecot. not ssh. dovecot.
02:40<sixfu>and dovecot needs no further configuration. as I already not only mentioned but explained. more than once. :)
02:40<fxiny>sixfu: ssh is an example .
02:41<sixfu>an example for a daemon which needs extra configuration :)
02:41<sixfu>which dovecot doesn't.
02:41<fxiny>easy : group wheel , hack pam , edit your conf , add user to wheel
02:41<sixfu>well, I showed you the line I added to my pam configuration and told you that it doesn't work this way :)
02:42<fxiny>of course
02:42<fxiny>who the f* is telling dovecot about pam wheel ?
02:43<sixfu>ah, so you have no idea how pam works? :)
02:43<sixfu>just say so :)
02:43<fxiny>yes i have
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02:43<fxiny>i edit my pam
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02:44<sixfu>well, then you know what a service name is
02:44<sixfu>dovecot uses 'dovecot' as service name
02:44<sixfu>thus the pam.d/dovecot file I keep talking about :)
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02:44<sixfu>and, I already mentioned a few times that it works as soon as I remove this single wheel line from that file, thus there must be something wrong with that :)
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02:48<sixfu>ah, maybe I should be using instead of the pam_wheel documentation sounds suspiciously like it's really for root-logins only anyway
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02:51<fxiny>pam is nice . most of the time overlooked , maybe becase pam docs are somehow obscure , but that's fine this way . last pam i liked was pam_tally , couple of week ago someone here was about a pam_face_recognition thing .
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02:52<fxiny>sixfu: all i can say to use is : edit pam conf but make sure you can mount your / partition from a live or anything else
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02:53<sixfu>you're not making any sense :)
02:53<fxiny>no ? go on then
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02:53<sixfu>I already told you I am only editing the file for one pam service name
02:53<sixfu>dovecot btw :D
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02:55<fxiny>sixfu: i'm not telling you all my personal pam : sufficient , required , trust , deny ...
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02:55<fxiny>you play
02:56<sixfu>thefuck 8)
02:56<sixfu>at least you're amusing :)
02:57<fxiny>i told you : i shut myself off my box *many* times :)
02:57<sixfu>well, you weren't just changing the service file of a service that is not involved in authentication of user shell logins then :)
02:58<fxiny>of course
02:58<sixfu>well if you were, you hit a VERY serious pam bug :)
02:59<sixfu>I hope you reported it :)
02:59<fxiny>nope : wrong syntax
02:59<fxiny>that's enough , you cannot log in anymore , no matter what you do
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02:59<fxiny>pam is tricky
03:00<sixfu>that doesn't matter if it's in a service file not related to the login...
03:00<sixfu>you can pipe a few gig of /dev/random in there if you want, doesn't matter :)
03:01<sixfu>but I get the feeling you didn't get the whole service concept in PAM yet, that would at least explain why you're saying what you're saying :)
03:01<fxiny>in my little experience pam instead of ignoring my wrong lines ignores me !
03:01<sixfu>it's not about ignoring wrong lines
03:01<sixfu>it's about not using service files for services not used :)
03:02<sixfu>pam doesn't care about the contents of /etc/pam.d/some-obscure-service when you log in via ssh
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03:02<fxiny>not saying ssh , i'm saying plain login : username and passwd
03:02<sixfu>same thing
03:03<sixfu>every pam authentication process has a service name associated with it
03:03<fxiny>same what ? you must be able to mount your / and delete the wrong line
03:03<sixfu>and pam only reads /etc/pam.d/$SERVICE (and the files included by that obviously)
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03:04<sixfu>so, also when you log in via the console, pam still doesn't care about /etc/pam.d/some-obscure-service :)
03:04<fxiny>pam is great to block user to su , do you know this ?
03:04<fxiny>pam can do many things : look at pam_tally
03:04<sixfu>by now I'm quite sure that I know a hell of a lot more about pam than you :)
03:05<fxiny>i feel i'm overlooking pam
03:05<fxiny>sixfu: if you know more share !
03:05<fxiny>wt4x !
03:05<fxiny>i'm not playing a game
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03:09<sixfu>well, one thing I can tell is that is nice as it does what I want without hassle
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03:09<sixfu>unlike :)
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03:11<fxiny>yes , i started looking at pam because i installed freebsd , so i was curious about what debian docs were saying about wheel
03:12<fxiny>and i liked it
03:12<fxiny>you just give a user a way to edit some special system configs and you'll make him/her happy
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03:17<averule>hi to all,is there any tool to know performance of operating system?
03:23<fxiny>a monitoring tool ? gkrellm
03:24<ogrosticlops>I'm undergoing the annoying task of copying 500+ gb of data DVDs to my new external. whee.
03:25<fxiny>hire an octopus :P
03:25<averule>fxiny, just i want to compare debain os performance with other os..
03:26<oipunx>i mounted a usb hdd, how do i know what speed it is using
03:26<oipunx>it seems to be running at usb1 speed on bwm
03:26<oipunx>but it's a usb2 device
03:28<sixfu>oipunx: dmesg
03:28<sixfu>averule: 'just'? :D
03:28<sixfu>averule: read up on benchmarking, it's not a trivial issue
03:28<oipunx>sixfu: it doesnt says which speed on there
03:28<sixfu>oipunx: it either says 'high speed usb device' or it doesn't
03:29<oipunx>hm it says high speed.. but it's copying files at 10mb/s max
03:29<averule>sixfu, benchmarking?
03:29<fxiny>oipunx: apt-cache show pv
03:29<sixfu>averule: yes, benchmarking. that's how what you want to do is called
03:29<sixfu>gotta love pv
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03:30<oipunx>let me try
03:34<oipunx>yeah only going at 10-15mb/s
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03:37<sixfu>well, that's already quite a lot faster than usb1.0 could manage.. :)
03:38<averule>sixfu, linux benchmark toolkit is available in debian repository?
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03:38<sixfu>averule: it's not that easy. told you, read up on the topic
03:38<sixfu>averule: benchmarking is something quite complex
03:39<sixfu>you have to determine what exactly you want to benchmark, how to benchmark it, how the system setup during the benchmark is controlled and so on
03:40<averule>sixfu,my system will be only base system with postgresql
03:40<sixfu>you just answered part of one of the questions that need answering :)
03:42<sixfu>there is no such thing as a 'general system benchmark'. you always end up benchmarking specific things. and it's not trivial to even fully understand what exactly a given benchmark is measuring
03:42<sixfu>if you want a generic system overview, you will end up running several benchmarks and having to decide how to weigh the results of those
03:42<sixfu>there is extensive literature available on the subject :)
03:43<averule>sixfu, actually i am having server running on red hat distro..i have to show my team debian is good in respect to performance basis
03:43<sixfu> is a good start, although a bit simplistic IMHO
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03:44<sixfu>although in your case, an application specifc benchmark might even be better
03:44<sixfu>since it might be of more interest to you, how fast postgres performs certain taks than to have some magical overall system performance measurement
03:44<fxiny>averule: performance is only one side of the coin . debian adds more : stability and quality for example . make them aware of this
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03:48<averule>fxiny, but even red hat is also stable and good in quality
03:49<fxiny>averule: i mean : if you are testing debian don't report only about performances
03:50<fxiny>averule: look deeper into debian
03:51<averule>fxiny, please can you tell in detial how to/
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03:51<tzafrir_laptop>oipunx, "high speed" is USB 2.0. "full speed" is from USB 1.1 . I don't recall ever seeing USB 1.0 in real life, luckily. But then again, the controller on the other side might be the limiting factor
03:52<fxiny>averule: you have to talk to some admin , i am just a user , an admin can tell you more
03:53<fxiny>averule: or start reading debian docs at
03:53<tzafrir_laptop>averule, there's a tradeoff here: RH has much less packages in its repositories. This allows them to support them longer
03:54<tzafrir_laptop>However if you need any other packages, you're on your own
03:55<averule>tzafrir_laptop, this is good point but red hat always be ready to support for new packages
03:56<averule>or new requirement
03:56<tzafrir_laptop>averule, supporting more software costs time
03:56<tzafrir_laptop>supporting it for many years is a pain
03:56<tzafrir_laptop>If you can pay for that: sure
03:57<tzafrir_laptop>There's a lot more to maintaining a package than getting it to work once
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03:58<ranix>averule: "i have to show my team debian is good in respect to performance basis
03:58<ranix>averule: shows you probably have a fundamental misunderstanding of something
03:59<averule>ranix, bcoz they still believes in red hat
03:59<ranix>averule: you use the operating system and distribution thereof that your administrators are familiar with, costs the least to maintain, and that you trust the most in disaster recovery
03:59<ranix>averule: if those all say redhat is the correct distribution, then redhat is the correct distribution
04:00<ranix>averule: you should not be blindly trying to change things just because you heard it was better
04:00<ranix>averule: "distro X is better than distro Y because I read it on Slashdot, here these bogomips prove it" is a bogus way of doing anything
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04:01<ranix>averule: performance is nearly the LAST thing I would consider when choosing an OS
04:01<averule>ranix, they says red hat is EAL certified so it is secure..
04:01*Supaplex <3's the rock solid package management and stable platform
04:01<tzafrir_laptop>averule, also: is it RedHat or something like CentOS?
04:02<tzafrir_laptop>If it is actually RH, then they're paying for support. They probably have a reason for that
04:02<ranix>averule: EAL certification is plausible deniability of liability in some cases. The statement "EAL certified is more secure" is as likely to be blowing smoke up your ass for a good reason
04:03<Supaplex>even microsoft plays that game. it's called marketing.
04:03<ranix>averule: remember, to companies, "is more secure" and "is a legally defensible position" are usually synonymous
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04:04<ranix>averule: feel free to invent bogus reasons Debian is better so that you end up being the only one who can administer the new servers you buy, thereby bringing yourself some job security or the next best thing
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04:09<tzafrir_laptop>ranix, a link for "EAL makes the system more secure":
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05:11<mitrofanzzz>hello peoples
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05:11<mitrofanzzz>sorry for my language
05:11<mitrofanzzz>im from russia
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05:12<simonrvn>i didn't see you swear ;p. your language is ok
05:13<mitrofanzzz>somebody know about madwifi? im make apt-get update end my ath0 go down...
05:13<mitrofanzzz>my deb is 5.0
05:13<simonrvn>there is no debian 5.0
05:14<mitrofanzzz>i now but... :)
05:14<oipunx>he has a time machine. sshhhh
05:15<mitrofanzzz>maybe i can make somthing like reapt-get upgrade :)
05:15<mitrofanzzz>omg time machine?!
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05:20<mitrofanzzz>please tell me how make undo apt-get upgrade or when i can read log about apt-get works
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05:26*mitrofanzzz go to read man apt-get :(
05:26<simonrvn>you don't. you remove it. there is no undo.
05:26<simonrvn>mitrofanzzz: ^^
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05:26<mitrofanzzz>simonrvn, tell me more please
05:27<sixfu>What's there more to tell. there is no undo. :)
05:27<dpkg>methinks downgrade is not possible with apt-get currently. No future support is anticipated. Some programs change the binary format of their files in a way that cannot be rolled back later, and package maintainer scripts provide ways to upgrade to new config file formats but not ways to downgrade. You can always try to downgrade a package using dpkg -i <olderversion.deb>. Also see <partial downgrade>, or <sdn>
05:27<simonrvn>the man page you're about to go see tells you about removal
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05:28<mitrofanzzz>you think this is right way? im not adv.user
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05:28<mitrofanzzz>but i can make remove and install older version
05:28<cq>hello, i just installed testing via netinstall, and the system won't boot... I have an msi ms 7521 board with a g45m chipset, could the SATA driver be too old or missing?
05:28<mitrofanzzz>after reading manuals
05:29<sixfu>cq: what's the error message?
05:29<cq>no error message, jsut a blikning cursor after the BIOS messages...
05:30<sixfu>cq: then grub isn't set up properly I guess
05:30<EmleyMoor>hal-disable-polling claims it can't find my DVD writer - otherwise, it works. Why would that be and how do I fix it?
05:30<sixfu>cq: nothing to do with the kernel's sata drivers, since the kernel doesn't even begin to run
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05:30<cq>I tried the super grub disk, and it doesn't help either, hangs om Running embed /boot/grub/mk2fs_1_5 or something like that...
05:31<sixfu>cq: try booting a live cd and manually doing a grub-install
05:31<cq>what's a good small live CD that fits on a USB stick?
05:31<sixfu>I like grml
05:32<sixfu>I consider anything that fits on a single CD small these days
05:32<cq>how about something that I can install with unerbootin? I only have a running XP system right now...
05:32<cq>damn small linux for example?
05:32<sixfu>I have no idea what 'unerbootin' is supposed to mean
05:33<cq>sorry, typo...
05:33<sixfu>anyway, if it has grub-install, it's ok. doesn't really matter
05:33<sixfu>you don't expect me to click that link now, right? :)
05:34<cq>it's a sourceforge link... otherwise, google for unetbootin
05:34<sixfu>why would I?
05:34<sixfu>I don't have any problems right now :)
05:35<cq>it's a program that installs live distros to USB stick and it has a list of supported distros.
05:35<mitrofanzzz>sixfu, du you think?
05:35<cq>otherwise I'll just usr damn small linux, give me a sec...
05:35<sixfu>cq: well, good for you. I still don't see how that's relevant. :)
05:35<cq>it's a list of the distro options tha tI can use to repair what I have.
05:35<sixfu>just boot some live system and manually install grub properly from that
05:35<sixfu>really doesn't matter which one
05:36<cq>give me a few minutes, downloading and installing to USB now...
05:36*fxiny real men use trinux
05:38<cq>fxiny: trinux could be too old, I need a 2.6.25 or newer kernel I think
05:38<mitrofanzzz>debian live cd or ubuntu?
05:38<fxiny>of course is old , i use sysrescuecd , it comes with usb stick installl
05:39<cq>I have a 512MB stick, those don't fit
05:39<gsimmons>mitrofanzzz: Was a later kernel image installed during your upgrade session? (eg. 2.6.24 -> 2.6.26). You would need to compile/install madwifi again for this new kernel (eg. via module-assistant). Alternatively, the ath5k driver could be used depending on its level of support for your device's Atheros chipset.
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05:45<mitrofanzzz>thanks for all who help me. /me go to make some thing like apt-get undo-upgrade ;) my best wishes for you and happy new year
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05:59<EmleyMoor>I have a recurring problem with hal. If I want to disable polling of my /dev/dvdrw, I do hal-disable-polling --device /dev/dvdrw - and initially it woks just fine. After a while, though, all it will do is this: Following symlink from /dev/dvdrw to /dev/hda.
05:59<EmleyMoor>Cannot find storage device /dev/dvdrw.
06:00<EmleyMoor>Link is correct and drive otherwise works fine. Why is this happening?
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06:01<cq>can I use the debian netinstall and before rebooting reinstall grub by handfrom the console? damn small linux has a 2.4 kernel...
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06:05<mrvn>cq: yes
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06:07<cq>it's weird, booting USB is no problem, recognizing and installing to SATA drives is no problem, the grub installation works (accodring to the debian testing and ubuntu installers), but then it hangs after the bios on reboot, no grub menu etc.
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06:08<mrvn>Have you tried lilo?
06:08<cq>is grub misconfigured, do I need grub2 ... ?
06:08<cahoot>no grub errormsg?
06:08<cq>no, nothing
06:09<mrvn>maybe it installs to the wrong drive, i.e. not the one the bios sees as first drive.
06:10<cq>I could unplug one drive, but I tried the super grub disk, it recognised the install on the right disk as well
06:10<cahoot>look at
06:10<cq>give me a minute, formatting right now...
06:10<mrvn>bootable flag is set for a partition?
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06:11<Bloodkil>Hey All
06:11<cq>gimme a sec... should be set, since it's the only system on the disk, and the testing installer shoudl set it, right?
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06:13<Bloodkil>Can any1 help me with a mysql problem?
06:13<cq>depends on what the problem is...
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06:14<kleptog>Tip: if after upgrading to lenny you have: a) 30 second delay at bootup waiting for /dev to populate, b) wireless network interface has strange name, c) nm-applet won't automatically connect to wireless network on login, then the solution is: delete line referring to your wireless device from /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
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06:15<Bloodkil>I get this error when loading my site
06:15<Bloodkil>Fatal error: Call to undefined function mysql_connect() in /var/www/include/ on line 5
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06:15<kleptog>probably need to add the mysql module to the php config
06:16<Bloodkil>how i do that?
06:17<kleptog>no idea, I don't run php anywhere, but if the module is installed I thought it did it automatically... look fr php5.ini or something like that
06:17<cq>otherwise ask on #mysql on
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06:44<cq>ok, i'm in the console just before rebooting. how can I chekc if grub is installed properly?
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06:44<cq>fdisk -l shows one disk partitioned how it should be, partition is bootable, second disk not partitioned
06:45<cahoot>cq: you can at least see if it's installed by f ex: dd if=/dev/sda count=1 | strings
06:46<cq>strings not found ... without the pipe I get binary garbage
06:47<cq>what bugs me is that the USB stick is sda, the other two drives are sdb (with the partitions) and sdc...
06:47<cq>could the isntaller be setting grub up wrong?
06:47<cahoot>look at
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06:49<valdyn>cq: it could easily
06:49<cq>or better: where?
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06:50<valdyn>the bootable flag is irrelevant except for windows
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06:50<cq>got it... hd0 is the USB, hd1 the first SATA sdb, and hd2 the second sata sdc
06:50<some1normal>hi how's every 1
06:51<cq>that's from target/boot/grub/
06:51<valdyn>cq: grub on usb is a pain, i would not use it
06:51<cq>I jsut need to get one install going, then I don't need it anymore...
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06:51<cq>I have a system with two sata drives and no DVD/CD
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06:52<cq>how else would I get it installed?
06:52<fxiny>cq: back up your mbr , install grub on it , replace your mbr
06:52<some1normal>what's the best way Convert video files into other formats under linux please
06:52<valdyn>some1normal: there is no best way
06:52<cq>let me reboot, i foudn a 1GB stick and just put debian live on it...
06:52<valdyn>some1normal: mencoder can do alot
06:53<some1normal>ok thanks
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06:53<valdyn>some1normal: but it cant do mkv, which means it cant embed subtitles into movies
06:53<valdyn>some1normal: except including it into the video, which means you cant switch them off
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06:54<mrvn>which suck
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06:54<some1normal>no probleme thanks valdyn
06:55<mrvn>What encoder can do h264?
06:55-!-geenna [] has joined #debian
06:55<mrvn>Or rather can do it good?
06:55<fxiny>valdyn: i've tried shorewall-perl yesterday : it loads fast !
06:55<valdyn>mrvn: mencoder
06:56<valdyn>mrvn: i dont know about "good" but they all use the same codec anyway
06:56<fxiny>wmv to avi ? ffmpeg
06:56<mrvn>valdyn: codec? So I would ned w64codecs as well?
06:56<valdyn>mrvn: no
06:57<fxiny>ffmpeg -i file.wmv file.avi
06:57<cq>how do I change a keyboard map to german on the console?
06:57<fxiny>just to piss windows users off :P
06:57<mrvn>dpkg-reconfigure console-data iirc
06:57<valdyn>mrvn: they all should be using libx264
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06:58<mrvn>W: Unable to locate package libx264
06:58<valdyn>fxiny: wouldnt that command reencode the video too?
06:58<valdyn>mrvn: because its changing api all the time, its libx264-xx
06:59<valdyn>mrvn: where xx is a number
06:59<mrvn>valdyn: or not in main
06:59<valdyn>mrvn: its not in main
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06:59<mrvn>valdyn: I tried tab completion on it :)
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06:59<matth>mrvn: debian-multimedia
06:59<mrvn>valdyn: is it in non-free or just external?
06:59<cq>ok, i have a fully working debian console now...
07:00<cq>can I jsut run grub-insall?
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07:00<mrvn>cq: now lets install X and you will hardly ever need it again
07:00<fxiny>valdyn: i think it does , i've done it a couple of times only
07:00<cq>no, i'm on a live USB stick...
07:00<cq>X is running
07:00<mrvn>cq: you can run grub-install in an xterm too
07:01<cq>ok, in an xterm
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07:02<cq>should I jsut run grub-install /dev/sda1 or do I need to set up a config for grub?
07:03<mrvn>cq: most often one installs grub on sda
07:03<mrvn>cq: /boot/grub/menu.lst
07:03<mrvn>you need that file during boot
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07:03<cahoot>wasnt sdb the first sata?
07:04<cq>yes, but now the USB stick is sdc
07:04<cq>sda is first sata with the install on it
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07:06<cq>ok, I have the sda1 mountet to /mnt/target and there's the boot/grub/menu.lst
07:06<cq>should tha refer to hd1,0 or hd0,0?
07:07<mrvn>you might have to change that if it had your disk as hd1 before
07:07<mrvn>then grub-install --root-directory=/mnt/target --recheck /dev/sda
07:07<cq>ok, modified.
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07:08<mrvn>yang: und was machen Franzosen?
07:09<cq>I got a lot of Unknown partition table signature messages...
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07:09<mrvn>do you have hd1 or sdb in the menu.lst?
07:09<cq>but now grub is installed there... the dd shows it
07:09<cq>hd0 now
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07:10<cq>ill try a reboot
07:10<mrvn>cq: is qemu installed?
07:11<cq>how can I check? where should it be?
07:11<mrvn>type "qemu" and press return
07:11<cq>I'm booted off a live cd right now...
07:11<cq>nope, not installed on the live cd
07:12<mrvn> 3.1T 3.1T 527M 100% /mnt/new
07:12<EmleyMoor>My hal problem goes away if I restart hal
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07:15<Rec0>what was the command to reenable this small adio trashbar program in ubuntu
07:16<fxiny>the command is /j #ubuntu :P
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07:17<kleptog>yay, vlc in lenny play youtube videos much more reliably :)
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07:21<Nazcafan>kleptog, how do you manage to do that?
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07:23<kleptog>there's a script called youtube-dl you download the video, I just hacked it to feed it straight to vlc instead of downloading it
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07:24<mrvn>kleptog: please reportbug that as patch
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07:26<michi123>hat wer nen plan von dem multifunktionsgerät canon mp520 ?
07:26<michi123>drucken kann ich aba nicht scannen
07:26<mrvn>michi123: can you mount it as usb storage?
07:26<michi123>i dont know
07:27<mrvn>At my parents I could just scan something and then download the file from the usb storage part.
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07:27<mrvn>different model though
07:27<michi123>driver file ?
07:27<mrvn>none. usb storage
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07:28<kleptog>mrvn: but that would mean adding options, documenting and all that stuff :)
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07:29<mrvn>kleptog: but save me from doing the same
07:29<mrvn>kleptog: only option I need would be the player to use.
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07:29<cq>does grub read /etc/fstab??
07:29<Nazcafan>kleptog, thanks
07:30<mrvn>nope. but grub-install might
07:30<cq>I get it booting but it can't mount the root filesystem
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07:30<cq>I've modified fstab to sda, but it still hangs there
07:30<kleptog>mrvn: heres the patch
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07:31<mrvn>kleptog: ok, that is a quick hack
07:32<kleptog>oh, you can do it easier I think: vlc `youtube-dl -g <youtubeurl>`
07:32<kleptog>no patch needed :)
07:32<cq>sda is hd0...
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07:32<cq>it's claiming (correctly) ALERT! /dev/sdb1 does not exist. Dropping to a shell!
07:32<cq>rerun grub-install with the correct fstab ?
07:33<mrvn>then do that
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07:33<cq>or is there something I can check from the initramfs prompt?
07:33<mrvn>cat /mnt/target/etc/fstab
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07:34<cq>it's not there... this is the (initramfs) prompt with a minimal ash shell
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07:35<mrvn>cq: you forgot to change sdb to sda in menu.lst
07:35<mrvn>mount it manualy.
07:36<cq>doing that now... I just changed the two boot options at the end of the file from hd1 to hd0
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07:36<mrvn>don't forget the comments
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07:37<mrvn>there are comments in the menu.lst file that are used for the autogenerated entries when you update a kernel.
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07:38<alexb2283>hi everyone :)
07:39<alexb2283>d'oh. nobody alive?
07:40<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
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07:40*EmleyMoor is up to his knees in DVDs
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07:41<alexb2283>yeah. i just thought i'd make sure i'm not talking to walls first :P
07:41<cq>fsck... same problem
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07:42<cq>where is it getting the information from?????
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07:42<mrvn>alexb2283: you just wasted your one free question. Next one is 1$.
07:42<alexb2283>i don't really have a problem per se; more of a puzzle. i have two relatively large hardware raids (1.5tb+3.0tb) that i want to "stripe" using lvm and also encrypt
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07:42<mrvn>cq: worst case it is hardcoded in the initramfs. But it should get it from root=/dev/sdb1 in menu.lst
07:43<alexb2283>i got this somewhat figured out, i just wanted to ask for some input as to what would be the ideal config
07:43<mrvn>alexb2283: you can encrypt the raids or the logical volumes. Not the lvm.
07:43<cq>hardcoded, from installation time?? possible... how can I change it? /etc/fstab and menu.lst are correct now...
07:43<cq>or can I tell grub on the command line where the root partition is_
07:44<alexb2283>i had the 3ware raid controller slice of a 16 gig boot volume which i want to encrypt as well. i'm just not sure what i need to leave unencrypted (if at all) to keep the system usable/bootable
07:44<cq>boot root=/dev/sda1 or something like that?
07:44<EmleyMoor>cq: Did you install grub after the change?
07:44<mrvn>cq: in the menu press e
07:44<cq>I reran grub-install afterwards...
07:44<EmleyMoor>I'm not that hot on troubleshooting grub
07:45<mrvn>alexb2283: you can not encrypt /boot
07:45<cq>ok, there's the problem... root (hd0,0) is correct, the kernel is listed at sdb1
07:45<alexb2283>mrvn: weeeelll. right now i have one partition on each of the raids, one vg (data) and one lv (also named data) - the lv is the "physical volume" for dm-crypt
07:46<enouf>cq: that's not an issue if sda is an optical drive
07:46<cq>sda is SATA HD
07:46<EmleyMoor>I've never actually set upany lvm outside the installer
07:47<enouf>cq: why not uuid=, or label= though?
07:47<enouf>cq: then your BIOS is messed up .. fix it
07:47<alexb2283>mrvn: so i would have three partitions on the 16gb bootvol, /boot with 150, dmcrypt with / on top, and swap ?
07:47<mrvn>alexb2283: The kernel and initramfs must be unencrypted so the bootloader can load them. That means you need an unencrypted /boot partition. Or / if you have no /boot. Everything else you can encrypt.
07:47<alexb2283>mrvn: can the swap reside on a dm-crypt as well?
07:47<enouf>cq: otherwise (hd1,0)
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07:47<cq>no, 0,0 is correct
07:47<enouf>cq: check the #groot= option says that
07:47<mrvn>alexb2283: I would put everything but /boot on lvm on dmcrypt.
07:48<enouf>and look at #kopt= line as well
07:48<fxiny>enouf: !!
07:48<enouf>fxiny: !!
07:48<mrvn>alexb2283: If swap is not encrypted people can scan it for residual data when they steal your computer.
07:49<alexb2283>mrvn: hm. so i'd only slice off a gig (the minimum in the controller allows) of the large arrays for /boot, and do _everything_ else in the large 4.5tb lvm?
07:49<enouf>alexb2283: try it now; strings /dev/hdaX | less :-)
07:49<alexb2283>mrvn: regarding swap: yeah that's what i'm trying to prevent
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07:49<alexb2283>enouf: thanks, but i knew that :)
07:49<mrvn>alexb2283: put it on lvm.
07:49<valdyn>alexb2283: 4.5tb lvm on what? that does sound scary...
07:49<enouf>alexb2283: running (swapoff) ; mkswap ; (swapon) on it often should work around that :-)
07:49<cq>ok, it's booting now...
07:49<alexb2283>mrvn: okay, that should make things easier
07:50<cq>the kernel line has an sdb which I forgot to change to sda
07:50<mrvn>valdyn: 4.5tb is rather small for a hardware raid.
07:50<fxiny>1G boot ? wt4x !
07:50<cq>next problem: my monitor is reporting the frequency out of range...
07:50<enouf>cq: the #kopt= line is what update-grub reads/uses
07:50<valdyn>mrvn: point is a doubt he has it on somewhat safe storage
07:50<alexb2283>valdyn: 3ware 9550sx, 1xraid5 with 4x1TB wd enterprise drives, 1xraid5 with 4x500gb wd enterprise drives
07:50<enouf>cq: add Vert/Hor refresh rates to xorg.conf
07:50<alexb2283>fxiny: the boot volume option in the 3ware bios only takes gigabytes
07:51<mrvn>alexb2283: Next time buy 5 disks. Makes for better striping.
07:51<cq>enouf: that was working, the kernel had the root=sdb1 listed instead of sda1
07:51<alexb2283>mrvn: what do you mean ?
07:51<alexb2283>mrvn: the controller only has 8 ports, so i'm somewhat limited ;)
07:52<mrvn>alexb2283: 5 disks raid5 gives 4 data blocks + 1 parity block per stripe. That gives you a 2^x stripe size which performs better usualy.
07:52<mrvn>alexb2283: yeah. It is a pitty they don't make 9 or 10 port cards.
07:52<cq>enouf: in the monitor section?
07:52<enouf>cq: yep - man xorg.conf
07:52<alexb2283>mrvn: yeah, impossible in this configuration though the controller as well as the chassis is on it's max
07:52<cq>is there a package I can install that detects the config?
07:52<enouf>cq: as well
07:52<enouf>cq: it does it auto already in Lenny
07:53<cq>I'm running testing...
07:53<enouf>cq: if etch, /msg dpkg drxx
07:53<enouf>that's lenny
07:53<cq>so why sdidn't it?
07:53<enouf>sometimes it farts out
07:53<alexb2283>mrvn: should i have the installer preconfigure the disks and use that as basis or would it be cleaner to do myself? not sure how well the partitioner performs...
07:53<mrvn>alexb2283: why do you have an extra boot volume on the 3ware? Why not just partition the disk normaly?
07:54<petern>they do make 12, 16 or 24 port cards though
07:54<mrvn>alexb2283: I always partition manually but it is a pain.
07:54<petern>cost a bit though :)
07:54<alexb2283>mrvn: i could, but wouldn't it make it more problematic to boot from gpt volumes?
07:54<mrvn>petern: which always gives you an odd number of data blocks per stripe in raid5/6.
07:55<petern>no it doesn't
07:55<petern>you don't have to fill the ports
07:55<alexb2283>mrvn / petern: unless you waste a port
07:55<petern>and having hot spares is usually a good idea
07:55<mrvn>alexb2283: makes little difference. But hey, what is 1GB anyway with that size?
07:55<mrvn>petern: waste of money and power usualy.
07:56<cq>the man page says that it should use 28-33Khz and 43-72Hz, which the monitor can handle fine...
07:56<alexb2283>mrvn: i'm open for input, that's why i came here, how would you configure it? just two large raids (no boot vol) lvm on top, unencrypted /boot, encrypted sys/data/swap?
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07:57<alexb2283>and everything in the lvm
07:57<petern>mrvn, not when you lose your data because you didn't have a spare...
07:57<mrvn>alexb2283: You need unencrypted /boot. No way around that. Using the 3ware boot volume might be simpler. Not sure the D-I will install the GPT right.
07:57<mrvn>petern: you only need a hot spare when you can't affort the wakeup call to change a disk.
07:58<alexb2283>mrvn: i get that - can /boot reside in the lvm and still be bootable?
07:58<enouf>if you need to - go grab parted
07:58<enouf>alexb2283: if you use an initrd, IINM
07:58<mrvn>alexb2283: nope. Not a good idea. Lilo can do it but why make thinks complicated?
07:58<alexb2283>mrvn: neater config ;)
07:59<enouf>er .. LiLo can also boot certain mdadm RAIDs tht grub cannot - gah, i forget all the various things this can do, that can't do, etc
07:59<petern>time is usually the biggest problem
07:59<mrvn>alexb2283: It needs to be on the unencrypted boot volume or partition. You can not move it, or grow it or put anything else on there.
07:59<petern>would take at least two hours to get to the data centre to replace a drive, during which time another drive could fail
07:59<mrvn>enouf: its hardware raid
07:59<petern>unlikely, but can happen
07:59<mrvn>petern: and 20 hours to resync in which a failure is so much more likely
08:00<enouf>mrvn: ok
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08:00<alexb2283>which is why we need zfs in kernel space
08:00<petern>so? it'll need to resync when you replace a drive anyway
08:00<mrvn>petern: plus you use raid6 so a second failure is fine. raid5 with hot spare is stupid.
08:00<mrvn>alexb2283: no, just fuse support for /.
08:01<EmleyMoor>RAID-TP, of course, can withstand three failures
08:01<enouf>alexb2283: look at btrfs ;-)
08:01<enouf>alexb2283: not yet for production though ;-P
08:01<alexb2283>mrvn: but performance is sub-par if the processor is busy doing things other than file serving
08:01<petern>i have a few RAID-6 + 1 hot spare setups actually
08:01<petern>on the other hand
08:01<enouf>then you have things such as Lustre
08:01<EmleyMoor>I hae software RAID 6 here
08:02<alexb2283>enouf: i've even considered opensolaris, but i apparently don't have a supported controller (not even the onboard ich9)
08:02<enouf>alexb2283: heh ..
08:02<mrvn>alexb2283: So you are decided on the 3ware boot volumen now, right? Then I would encrypt sdb and sdc completly and make them physical volumes for lvm.
08:03<alexb2283>mrvn: yeah, i've made a 1gb boot vol now (in case i need to store a few hundred kernels in /boot)
08:04<alexb2283>mrvn: mind if a try to ascii my layout and have you have a look at it in a few minutes, just to see if it's sound?
08:04<mrvn>alexb2283: Next decision is whether to put both raids into one volume group or 2. If they are together and one raid dies then the system won't boot on its own anymore.
08:05<cq>i still have my monitor reporting freqs out of range, the freqs are specified correctly in xorg.conf in teh Monitor section though...
08:05<cq>90kHz / 60Hz is what's reported by the monitor, it only supports 28-83kHz and 56-85hz though...
08:05<alexb2283>mrvn: i've put some thought into that before, the data on the server is critical, but uptime isn't. i'll have scripts in place that'll shutdown the server a few hours after a raid failure without reaction from me
08:06<mrvn>alexb2283: So having to manualy fix things up so it boots again is no probelm. Then put both raids in the same VG. Create the LVs you need and finish the install.
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08:07<enouf>cq: so use the supported frequency ranges
08:07<cq>enouf: I am telling it that in xorg.conf, but it's not accepting them
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08:09<enouf>not accepting?
08:10<cq>well, i tried with kHz and Hz appended as in teh manpage but the server says that's invalid, without it it still seems to send 90khz 60hz
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08:10<enouf>you can also use gtf and/or cvt to generate modes/ranges - but also /msg dpkg fbcon resolution (just for info)
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08:12<enouf>cq: HorizSync 31.5-80
08:12<enouf> VertRefresh 56-75
08:12<enouf>is mine
08:12<enouf>Monitor section
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08:17<alexb2283>how is this?
08:17<alexb2283>mrvn / anyone else who wants to look
08:18<alexb2283>ah crap forgot swap
08:18<cq>enouf no luck, tried telling it max 60hz and the resolution, but same problem
08:18<alexb2283>that'd be another lv
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08:19<petern>cq, told it to ignore DCC?
08:19<petern>or was it DDC...
08:20<cq>what is DCC? I only know the IRC fiel transfer
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08:22<petern>DDC is the bit that is sending 90kHz
08:23<enouf>edid anyone?
08:24<cq>how do I set that? i don't see it in the xorg.conf
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08:26<alexb2283>what would you guys suggest as swap space for current systems?
08:27<alexb2283>xeon 3000-something system with 4gb physical memory on amd64
08:27<enouf>cq: there are many issues you could be having, egrep -i 'drv|EE' /var/log/Xorg.0.log pastebin it along with output of lspci -nnk | grep VGA
08:27<alexb2283>and a 4.5tb xfs vol
08:27<enouf>cq: might as well pastebin your xorg.conf too
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08:28<alexb2283>mrvn: you still there?
08:28<cq>can't, I have no IRc etc on that machine yert :)
08:29<cq>what's a good text irc client?
08:29<enouf>then you have no issues :-P
08:29<dpkg>hmm... screen+irssi is run "crontab -e" and add "@reboot screen -S irssi -d -m irssi", then (after next reboot) you can attach to irssi using "screen -x irssi"
08:29<alexb2283>cq: bitchx or irssi
08:29<enouf>cq: irssi
08:29<enouf>bitchx is only in etch
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08:30<barnes>alexb2283 I whould probably use 2-4GB depends on what the server does
08:30-!-cq2 [] has joined #debian
08:30<cq2>seems to work :)
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08:31<alexb2283>barnes: kay, thanks. i'll make it 4 then. google said 8 (a few people think twice my ram should be it)
08:31<petern>in the past, yeah
08:31<petern>when you only had 16MB ram...
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08:32<petern>depends what you run, with 4GB you can easily run without any swap
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08:32<alexb2283>from past experience i would have used ram/2, i just wanted to see what you people would say
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08:33*enouf has to run ... until later
08:33<alexb2283>petern: sabnzbd+ for my tv show needs and fileserving
08:33<cq>I need to go as well, thanks for the helo...
08:33<alexb2283>petern: so i suppose it won't be an issue ;)
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08:34<petern>blah, usenet is for the conversation :o
08:34<alexb2283>it's good for both
08:34<alexb2283>hooray for usenet :)
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08:34<alexb2283>has anyone looked at my configuration?
08:35<alexb2283>i'm eager to hear how stupid it is
08:35<wekt>2GB swap max. No more makes sense because you will be thrashing the disks probably if you even approach that amount and because of possible linux memory partitioning depending upon compile options. He with 4GB RAM needs no swap on linux. (generally)
08:36<wekt>exception: may want more swap if suspending to swap space. but can also suspend to a disk file.
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08:36<alexb2283>does dm-crypt cache passphrases by the way? i'll be creating three seperate dm-crypt volumes - will i need to enter my passphrase three times then?
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08:39<wekt>alexb2283: I believe it does not. I believe cryptsetup also does not reuse passphrases. they will still have them in locked kernel memory which will not be swapped out. as for whether something else caches them: i don't know. If you find something, please share.
08:40<alexb2283>wekt: i just read through some docs. it doesn't. ubuntu seems to work around that by first dm-crypting the raw device and then creating an lvm within the dm-crypt
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08:41<alexb2283>sounds forensically cleaner, but in my case i'd still have to type it in twice
08:41<alexb2283>since i have two base devices
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08:45<mrvn>alexb2283: do you think you need swap at all?
08:45<alexb2283>mrvn: possibly not
08:46<alexb2283>i've just been fantasizing about various configuration options... sdb/sdc->lvm->1dm-crypt->another lvm
08:46<alexb2283>or sdb/sdc 1 dm-crypt each -> lvm
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08:46<mrvn>alexb2283: you can create one encrypted volume for / and then store the keys for all the others on /.
08:47<alexb2283>just trying to weigh off the pros and cons (recoverability and having to enter a long (40chars+) passphrase multiple times
08:47<mrvn>or write a little script to pipe the passphrase you enter to multiple cryptsetups
08:47<alexb2283>mrvn: i'm new to dm-crypt, so i'm not sure how :) especially with the timing for automounting
08:48<mrvn>I would go and build a script so the passphrase is used for both raids.
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08:50<fxiny>alexb2283: one pass at boot , see and
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08:50<zeusgrs>hello all
08:51<zeusgrs>guys and girls
08:51<alexb2283>fxiny: thank you, sounds promising!
08:52<fxiny>alexb2283: i have a full encrytped etxh , no raid no lvm
08:52<alexb2283>fxiny: just two partitions on one disk?
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08:53<alexb2283>fxiny: i'll need the lvm because i want to merge two hardware raids
08:53<fxiny>alexb2283: i set the LUKS layer up and i have cloned my etch over it , swap / and home uncrypted . /boot on ext2
08:53<fxiny>alexb2283: just sharing my experience : performances are very good
08:53<mrvn>alexb2283: D-I will do it pretty much all for you.
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08:55<fxiny>alexb2283: being mine a clone i told initrd where the new /boot is , on the old system ...
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08:57<fxiny>alexb2283: you know there are many ways to sanitize your partitions .some can stress your hd up ,i've used scrub : gently and fast
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08:58<mrvn>fxiny: dd is just fine too or badblocks
08:58<fxiny>alexb2283: but i have no such huge partitions !
08:58<fxiny>mrvn: badblocks takes ages
08:58<mrvn>fxiny: with >1TB anything takes ages
08:58<fxiny>mrvn: scrub write a big file with interesting patterns
08:59<fxiny>mrvn: heheh >1T is too much indeed :)
08:59<alexb2283>right now i'm trying a multiple lvm with just one crypto vol-configuration
08:59<alexb2283>just to see if it'll boot ;)
09:00<mrvn>alexb2283: better use raid-l oder raid-0 than lvm.
09:00<alexb2283>luckily i have a few disks borrowed from work for temporary data storage, makes things a lot easier if you don't have to juggle with the data
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09:00<alexb2283>mrvn: for performance reasons?
09:00<mrvn>I bet lvm on lvm won't work.
09:01<alexb2283>we'll see in five minutes, but i'm fully prepared to trash that config - it's just an experiment
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09:01<alexb2283>i've thought about raid0 but wasn't sure how well it would perform with disks so different
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09:01<mrvn>lvm on crypto on raid works fine for sure.
09:02<alexb2283>the 1tb disks have 32mb cache, the 500gb ones 16mb. all have 7200rpm
09:03<mrvn>alexb2283: make sure you don't wipe the crypted volume. That would take ages for no good reason for such a test.
09:03<alexb2283>mrvn: already taken care of
09:03<alexb2283>it's pulling packages right now (netinstall)
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09:06<alexb2283>hooray... "disabling netinst cd in sources.list"
09:06-!-schlachtrufe [] has joined #debian
09:06<alexb2283>finally someone with a sense for what users want :)
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09:07<alexb2283>it booted!
09:07<alexb2283>lvm on lvm works
09:07<mrvn>I want a "trust this mirror anyway" button.
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09:08<alexb2283>though i probably won't keep this... i wouldn't want recover this beast of a configuration in the future
09:08<mrvn>If you have / on lvm then link /etc/lvm to /boot/lvm
09:09<alexb2283>`mount` in combination with crypttab makes my eyes bleed
09:09<mrvn>alexb2283: try lvm on crypt on raid next.
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09:09<alexb2283>mrvn: yeah - that sounds way more reasonable
09:10<alexb2283>and thinking about it... it's probably way faster on writes
09:10<alexb2283>raid 0 then, hm?
09:10<mrvn>I think the limit is the raid5 chip on the 3ware. Not the disks. And then raid-l is better because it leaves more data intact if a raid dies.
09:11*mrvn wonders if 3waer will all AES encryption to their controlers.
09:11<weasel>I'm not sure we'd be able to trust it :)
09:12<alexb2283>nah i don't think so, not with the crypt and lvm on top, that'll make sure my data gets scrambled on all eight disks
09:12<alexb2283>weasel: good point
09:12<alexb2283>but i'd love to see aes offloaded to something other than the cpu
09:12<mrvn>alexb2283: no. just the volumes with data on the broken part.
09:12<mrvn>alexb2283: My Via EDEN has hardware aes.
09:12<barnes>3ware got some tips and tricks on the website, but i think they recommends wrritecache on and some other stuff
09:12<alexb2283>i was gonna say graphics card, but this machine has a server board with a 32mb ati es1000... that wouldnt help much
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09:13<mrvn>alexb2283: Yeah, add a big GPU and run raid over that. :)
09:13<alexb2283>just aes
09:13<mitrofanzzz>people in russia in shock...
09:13<mrvn>Actually if you do have a GPU that should be way faster and usualy idle.
09:14<fxiny>all vodka taken by aliens ? :P
09:14<mitrofanzzz>nonono vodka is fine...
09:14<alexb2283>mrvn: exactly, why shouldn't it be put to use, for home use anyway. datacenter is a whole different story
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09:14<mrvn>alexb2283: right, they need the GPU to do data crunching
09:15<alexb2283>i'm dbaning the disks right now
09:15<alexb2283>i get 287mb/s write throughput
09:15<alexb2283>sequential but who cares
09:17<mitrofanzzz>alexb2283, what hardware you use?
09:18<zeusgrs>guys. know one easy way to make one debian distro from my install debian ? (sorry for my bad english)
09:18<alexb2283>supermicro x7sbe + xeon 3050 + 4gb kingston ddr2-800 + 3ware 9550sx + 4x wd1002fbys (raid5) + 4x wd5000ybs (raid5)
09:19<alexb2283>mitrofanzzz: the xeon is really just a re-labelled core2duo, don't let that fool you
09:19*mitrofanzzz go crying...
09:19<alexb2283>i don't know wtf intel was thinking when they decided to create another line of low cost xeons
09:19<alexb2283>as if that would make things easier
09:19<mitrofanzzz>special intel magic
09:19<mrvn>They should make a nice chipset for the Atom 330.
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09:20<alexb2283>mrvn: yeah, and screw that damn 945 crap. the chipset uses ten times as much power as the cpu - it's ridiculous. all just because they don't want the atom to crunch on the core2 market
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09:21<alexb2283>mitrofanzzz: the system is rather low cost, compared to some normal enterprise servers out there
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09:22<mrvn>Is it too much to ask for 4-8GB ram, a 16x PCIe slot or 2 PCI-X, 2GBit NICs and 2x DVI?
09:22<alexb2283>lol for an atom-class system... yeah it is
09:22<alexb2283>that kind of configuration sounds more like via
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09:23<mitrofanzzz>alexb2283, for what services you use this machine?
09:23<mitrofanzzz>or you planning use
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09:23<mrvn>alexb2283: They claim to be for multimedia stuff and then they don't have DVI. great.
09:23<DBAlex>I downloaded the debian lenny livecd last night and booted it this morning, my question is, if there a way to install from the livecd? thanks :-)
09:23<alexb2283>mrvn: i'll go with the raid0 for now since i'm not that nervous about a complete raid failure, as i said i'll have it auto-shutdown on a disk failure. also i'm one of the few people who actually make backups and don't mistake raid for backup
09:23<mrvn>alexb2283: they want to be used for desktops and then can only do 1GB ram. great.
09:24<alexb2283>mitrofanzzz: sabnzbd+and file serving for me and my wife
09:24<DBAlex>also it didn't recognize the core 2 duo as multi-core and detects something like 889mb ram (the laptop has 2GB)
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09:25<alexb2283>mrvn: right now i see them more in the nettop/netbook area, for which the current limitations aren't an issue, but i see your point and agree with you - over time the market should sort that out
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09:26<mitrofanzzz>omg ... too much power for two people... russia again in shock :)
09:26<alexb2283>DBAlex: does cat /proc/cpuinfo on a console give you two or one capability listing
09:26<alexb2283>mitrofanzzz: computing power is low, the cpu is absolute lowcost, it's just a lot of storage
09:26<DBAlex>alexb2283: i'll check in a sec, but system monitor doesn't detect 2
09:27<mitrofanzzz>you dont see prices in russia i think...
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09:27<alexb2283>DBAlex: regarding memory: if you have some uber graphics card with 2gb ram in the system, that could explain the memory issue. are you running an x86 or x64 kernel?
09:27<DBAlex>yeah it just shows one...
09:28<mitrofanzzz>my auto price = alexb2283 storage price :)
09:28<alexb2283>DBAlex: perhaps you have "core multi processing" (or a similarly named option in the bios) turned off?
09:28<mrvn>Plus the live cd might have a stunted kernel
09:28<DBAlex>alexb2283: that wouldn't be the issue, its a laptop and intrepid ibex sees the ram fine, it *doesn't* have a graphics card with a large amount of vram...
09:28<alexb2283>mitrofanzzz: don't be silly
09:28<DBAlex>and x86
09:28<alexb2283>mitrofanzzz: how much is a wd1002fbys ?
09:28<DBAlex>alexb2283: no because vista and ubuntu 8.10 both detect both cores
09:28<mitrofanzzz>few second
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09:29<alexb2283>DBAlex: you don't know the kind of laptops i've seen at work....
09:29<cahoot>DBAlex: got a 686 kernel?
09:30<alexb2283>DBAlex: that sounds really strange, something's wrong with the kernel you're running
09:30<DBAlex>cahoot: its just the lenny livecd
09:30<DBAlex>one sec i'll find the download I used
09:30<cahoot>uname -r
09:30<alexb2283>DBAlex: maybe try the amd64 kind?
09:30<DBAlex>its here
09:31<DBAlex>it doesn't fit on a cd-r either but thats a seperate issue...
09:31<cahoot>DBAlex: get a 686 kernel
09:31<DBAlex>alexb2283: i'd rather run an x86 kernel thanks...
09:31<alexb2283>DBAlex: or try running the netinstaller disk and see what that detects.
09:31<DBAlex>cahoot: livecd? from where?
09:32<cahoot>DBAlex: IIRC you can choose at boot
09:32<DBAlex>not here...
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09:32<mitrofanzzz>alexb2283, wd not in list, seagate 1 TB = 4500 rubles 4500/25r/$ ~ some like 180$
09:32<DBAlex>actually maybe it is
09:32<DBAlex>theres a file called parameters.txt
09:32-!-geenna_ [] has joined #debian
09:32<DBAlex>i'll grep it in a sec
09:33<DBAlex>also you can't install from livecd
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09:34<alexb2283>mitrofanzzz: interesting. that's around 129¤ - one of the 1TB wd drives here cost me 160¤
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09:34<alexb2283>mitrofanzzz: so prices seem to be a tad lower (unless the seagate you're talking about is consumer class. my disks are enterprise)
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09:34<alexb2283>mitrofanzzz: the interesting part would probably be putting it in relation to the average income
09:35<mitrofanzzz>where is mi dictionary :)
09:35<alexb2283>after taxes i'm left with around 1'600¤
09:36<mitrofanzzz>at all system or harddrive only
09:36<alexb2283>that's my income :P
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09:36<alexb2283>regarding system cost: i have no clue, this machine has been living for a while, so it's hard to say
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09:38<alexb2283>mrvn: what was that? sdb/sdc->1 partition for raid each -> dm-crypt -> lvm -> sys/swap/data ?
09:38<mrvn>alexb2283: didn't you want to do software raid over sdb/sdc?
09:39<alexb2283>mrvn: precisely, 1 partition for raid each. then on top of this raid0 -> dm-crypt
09:39-!-iron [] has joined #debian
09:39<mrvn>why partition? That just adds a troublesome gpt.
09:39<nirbheek>Anyone here know where/how I can contact Timothy Abbot aka tabbot? (
09:39<nirbheek>on IRC ie
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09:40<alexb2283>mrvn: i can raid raw disk devices directly without partitioning in the installer ?
09:40<alexb2283>how ?
09:41<mrvn>alexb2283: not sure. Works when I do it manualy
09:42<alexb2283>mrvn: if i step on the disks it just asks if it should make a partition table
09:42<Myon>nirbheek: mail him?
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09:43<nirbheek>Myon, that's what I'll do if I can't find him on IRC anywhere :)
09:43<nirbheek>I just need to have a quick chat with him about SAGE
09:43<alexb2283>nirbheek: here's his website, no mention of irc though. perhaps he just doesn't use it
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09:43<Myon>nirbheek: if he's a DD, might know the nick
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09:44<nirbheek>alexb2283, I don't see a "Contact" section either, so it's inconclusive
09:44<nirbheek>Myon, oh, thanks, I'll try that :)
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09:44<alexb2283>mrvn: as long as i don't have to boot from it, i have no problems with gpt. is there anything else that would concern you?
09:44<alexb2283>mrvn: aside from having to use parted over fdisk
09:45<nirbheek>Myon, hmmm, he doesn't seem to be listed :-/
09:45<mrvn>alexb2283: the fake dos partitioning table gets used instead of the gpt unless you specify gpt as boot option.
09:45<nirbheek>Oh well, I guess I'll email him
09:45<nirbheek>thanks everyone
09:46<alexb2283>mrvn: i'm not booting from it, i'm using the /boot on a seperate boot volume (that's a seperate disk to the operating system, so that uses MBR-style partitioning)
09:46<mrvn>alexb2283: doesn't matter. that is a kernel stupidity
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09:48<And1>I'm searching some monospaced UTF-8 fonts, anyone knows some?
09:48<alexb2283>try ?
09:48<And1>alexb2283: Thanks.
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09:52<alexb2283>jeez. how long can mkfs.ext3 take on a 16gb partition?
09:52<jackyf>And1: terminus exists
09:52<mrvn>alexb2283: hours.
09:53<alexb2283>16gb? on a raid5?
09:53<mrvn>you said "can"
09:53<alexb2283>are there any good reasons keeping me from using xfs for / ?
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09:54<alexb2283>oh... interesting. "rejecting io to offline device"
09:54<themill>And1: the bitstream fonts have pretty good unicode coverage as does consolas. You can also get hold of the microsoft fonts which have good unicode coverage.
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09:56<And1>Thanks guys. :)
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10:09<alexb2283>hallo :)
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10:11<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
10:11-!-marco is now known as Guest306
10:12<jifix>can anyone help me with rtorrent
10:13<jifix>ok i am running debian with rtorrent and everything is ok
10:13<mrvn>Problem solved.
10:13<mrvn>any more help?
10:13<Guest306>I can't get GUI programs to run as root. I'm running a X session as a normal user (which has no problem running GUI programs) and trying to run wireshark (or any GUI program) gives me "(...) cannot open display: :0.0". I'm using Debian testing (lenny).
10:14<jifix>and i wonder if there is a way to cancel one file pf a torrent and download only the others with rtorrent
10:14<mrvn>Guest306: 1) don't do that, 2) use sudo and preserve HOME
10:14<EmleyMoor>Guest306: How are you becoming root?
10:14<themill>!root x
10:14<dpkg>If you need to run an X application as root (or another user), ask me about <sux> <gksu> <sshx> <mit-magic-cookie> <xauth> or look at kdesu and gksudo. Whatever you do, don't use <xhost> or try <running x as root>!
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10:14<Guest306>EmleyMoor: su root -c "wireshark"
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10:15<mrvn>jifix: select the torrent, go to file list and the select the files with space
10:15<EmleyMoor>Use sux instead of su
10:15<Guest306>e.g. for trying to run wireshark
10:15<EmleyMoor>sux doesn't <g>
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10:16<Guest306>EmleyMoor: It used to run fine this way though, any thought on what could have happened?
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10:16<wekt>alexb2283, fxiny: if you log in with pam-mount and have it set up decryption, I think you can have it reapply same password to each mounted device.
10:16<Guest306>EmleyMoor: how can I diagnose this problem?
10:16<jifix>mrvn: this will cancel the torrent or will only give priorety to others?
10:16<jifix>the file not the torrent
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10:17<EmleyMoor>Guest306: It shouldn't have worked unless your setup was insecure
10:17<mrvn>jifix: no, it will select files
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10:17<wekt>alexb2283: i don't know whether grub reads xfs
10:17<mrvn>the xfs stage 2 does
10:17<Guest306>EmleyMoor: Hmm. I just did apt-get update && apt-get upgrade and restarted X, could it be a security update?
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10:18<Guest306>EmleyMoor: Was the default debian testing setup insecure then? :O
10:18<EmleyMoor>Guest306: Difficult to say vithout having been there
10:18<jifix>mrvn, and how can i cancel the download of the file
10:18<mrvn>jifix: you set it to off
10:18<jifix>thanks mrvn
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10:18<Guest306>EmleyMoor: Oh. Just one more question then. How can I see the log of changes made to my system by APT tools?
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10:19<mrvn>Guest306: /var/log/dpkg*
10:19<Guest306>mrvn: thanks
10:19<mitrofanzzz>Guest306, madwifi?
10:20<Guest306>mitrofanzzz: ?
10:20<EmleyMoor>Guest306: One of the factoids mentioned was probably active on your system
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10:20<mitrofanzzz>Guest306, what broken? on my system after upgrade wifi go down...
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10:22<Guest306>mitrofanzzz: Oh. Sorry to hear mitro, but I get confused enough with my wireless setup, I'm afraid I can't help you much
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10:23<ElectriX>hi to all
10:23<ElectriX>i am italian
10:23<ElectriX>where i can download lenny dvd from ftp o http
10:23<fxiny>wekt: not using pam_mount . main system boot messages are : "Begin Mounting root file system..." "running /scripts/local-top..." "device mapper: ioctl ..." "setting up cryptographic volume root..." "enter LUKS passphrase" , ok ? only now cryptsetup starts and then the system boots as usual . when is pam_mount supposed to kick in ?
10:24-!-morph___ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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10:24<mitrofanzzz>ElectriX, official site?
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10:25<ElectriX>no work mitrofanzzz
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10:25<EmleyMoor> ?
10:26<ElectriX>no work
10:26<EmleyMoor>How no?
10:26<ElectriX>i do not
10:26<EmleyMoor>You just said you did
10:26<ElectriX>you try and work EmleyMoor
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10:27<ElectriX>EmleyMoor work the link ?¿?¿?¿?¿
10:27<EmleyMoor>It's going to take some hours here but is going
10:28<ElectriX>working ?¿?¿?¿?¿
10:28<EmleyMoor>What happens for you?
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10:28<ElectriX>no connection for me
10:28<EmleyMoor>"No connection"?
10:28<ElectriX>the page is no found ......
10:28<ElectriX>and so....
10:28<cahoot>ElectriX: multiple ?'s doesn't serve your case
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10:29-!-mode/#debian [+l 380] by debhelper
10:29<wekt>fxiny: pam_mount is run when you log in if you have installed libpam-mount and have configuration files like /etc/pam.d/kdm properly amended.
10:29<lee>wow this is loaded on to my usb hdd and executed from it..ok I am realy impressed
10:30<ElectriX>i resolve
10:30<wekt>ElectricElf: EmleyMoor,what encoding is that? I can't read it.
10:30<ElectriX>but no undesand why
10:30<Guest306>lee: cool! Just curious, what are you running?
10:30<ElectriX>i change from internet exprer to mozilla
10:31<ElectriX>with mozilla the doqload started
10:31<lee>Lenny, Ubuntu failed to recognise the external HDD
10:31<lee>I used net install
10:31<EmleyMoor>wekt: Sorry, are you having trouble reading me?
10:31<wekt>EmleyMoor: the link, I could not read. most text i can read.
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10:32<EmleyMoor>Nothing unusual AFAIK
10:32<ElectriX>thanks for the help
10:32<wekt>do you know what text encoding your IRC client is using?
10:32<Guest306>lee: yeah, lenny runs better on this computer too, if it didn't have the quirks, GUI and usability inconsistencies seeminly every linux system has, it would be perfect
10:33<lee>I have tried others but non would load to my external HDD, hmm however should I coneect to my internal hdd with and then try to boot then that is where the error comes in, wierd
10:33<EmleyMoor>No, I don't
10:33<wekt>Guest306: in my own experience, wouldn't constrain that statement to gnu/linux systems.
10:33<EmleyMoor>I am happy to adjust it if, as you suggest, there is reason to.
10:33<lee>I can live with quriks, I can't live by payibng x amount for...a peice of junk software that ticks on off all the time
10:33<fxiny>wekt: right , i have kdm/kde on that LUKS , when i log in via kdm /home is already decrypted , i'll check/set up pam_mount nextime before i replace my backups , also i'm planning to check the "suspend" issue , cause i'm told i can loose data
10:34<mitrofanzzz>ElectricX try
10:34<mitrofanzzz>russian mirror
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10:34<lee>well one hting that I have learned in the computer field, nothing is perfect
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10:34<Guest306>hmmm emleymoor's links work fine for me
10:34<wekt>Guest306: what text encoding do you use?
10:35<lee>if its made by humans, then it bound to havie issues
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10:35<lee>I have noticed xp becoming unstabele
10:35<lee>it happens every time I update
10:35<lee>and only after updating
10:36<Guest306>wekt: not sure... can you see the letter between quotes? "ç"
10:36<EmleyMoor>I see a ?
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10:36<Guest306>wekt: you seem to use the same encoding as me then...
10:37<lee>at any rate, if I could find a freindly video editing system I would be as happy as a clam lol
10:37<wekt>I see: "ç" . I believe I have UTF-8
10:37<wekt>lee: which ones have you tried?
10:37<lee>I have tred cinerlla
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10:37<lee>but I am used to something like adobe premier
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10:38<Guest306>EmleyMoor seems to use a different encoding, but I tested a link he/she provided and it worked fine, what are you trying to access?
10:38<fxiny>i see "ç" , no utf8 here
10:38<lee>I htink its a learning curve thing lol
10:38<wekt>lee: thereis broadcast2000 or similar. It was crashy a few years ago. don't know about recently.
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10:38<lee>hmm thanks I never heard of that one
10:38<lee>is it a deb package?
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10:39<lee>if not that is ok
10:39<wekt>don't know. wasn't using debian back then.
10:39<Guest306>wekt: as for usability issues, OpenBSD offers a much more comprehensive learning curve, more consistent network administration tools' behaviour and much, much better documentation with users in mind
10:39<Plazzmex>I have a problem. when i'm running tvtime i have an error : xvoutput: Received X error: BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation) and then tvtime quits... what this mean and how to solve ? thanks
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10:40<lee>UUGG BSD UGG that thing couldn't find my sand disk drives erg
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10:40<Guest306>wekt: Windows, for all its problems, offers access to advanced system and application features in a more user friendly way than ubuntu, and with more informative error messages
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10:41<fxiny>Guest306: so what ? gentoo docs are the best around but we know gentoo is not user friendly at all . freebsd has good docs too but it speaks some strange logic
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10:43<lee>eh I found a down load but its a bin file eh, I don't like the looks of htat
10:43<Guest306>fxiny: what about linux's crazy salad of command line network tools needed to set up a wireless connection, (wpa supplicant, iwconfig, ifconfig, "ip link set * up") compared to OpenBSD's simple "ifconfig"?
10:44<Guest306>the fact different drivers need different commands to work on Debian to achieve the same result, that says a lot about consistency IMHO
10:45<fxiny>Guest306: is not linux : is a bastard hardware vendors issue , user should tell 'em off akll the time instead of complaining to developpers
10:46<fxiny>i can't stan people (read hardware vendors) that want to make business with linus user money without supporting linux
10:46<Guest306>fxiny: OpenBSD has had the same difficulty developing their own wireless tools and drivers, and yet they achieved remarkably consistent results
10:46<fxiny>thay should know how
10:47<Guest306>fxiny: they had to bother vendors too
10:47<wekt>fxiny: having offered to make correction to gentoo docs, I must disagree that they are the best around.
10:47<wekt>fxiny: at least for non-x86
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10:48<wekt>fxiny: akll?
10:48<fxiny>wekt: ok , i have not checked lately , but i remember gentoo had good docs in the past
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10:49<lee>fmm guess I have to use cinerella
10:49<wekt>gentoo gave me a cold shoulder for my offers to improve gentoo and run debugger on software, which is why i run debian now.
10:49<Plazzmex>anyone ?
10:50<cahoot>still stuck with debian?
10:50<fxiny>Guest306: am i saying something against openbsd ? i am a user so i can speak as a user : i hate hardware vendors not supporting linux and i "dislike" linux users complaining all the time about drivers
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10:51<fxiny>wekt: just all , no k :)
10:51<Guest306>fxiny: No you weren't. I was just comparing linux's multitude of different tools needed to setup wireless compared to OpenBSD's simplicity, while remarking they had to pass for the same difficulties as the linux folk
10:51<EmleyMoor>I have a DVD+RW that appears to be approaching "coaster" status
10:51<wekt>Promising graphics project with linux support:
10:52<wekt>EmleyMoor: you can turn on debugging messages in kernel.
10:52<wekt>EmleyMoor: i don't remember how.
10:52<mrvn>Guest306: no they didn't. BSD allows closed source
10:52<wekt>EmleyMoor: check scsi and perhaps usb sections as appropriate. sata counts as scsi.
10:52-!-streuner_ [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
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10:52<EmleyMoor>I don't think they will help - it's just this one
10:52-!-dread [] has quit []
10:53<EmleyMoor>The drive is fine
10:53<Guest306>mrvn: they allow you to close the source yourself. OpenBSD doesn't allow binary blobs on their drivers (or any of their code) at all
10:54<wekt>EmleyMoor: good opportunity to try special DVD rescue tools perhaps.
10:54<EmleyMoor>No - may as well just replace it if it fails to work this time
10:55-!-Zylvain [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
10:55<Guest306>they didn't use binary blobs to make their drivers work. If a NIC needs a blob (e.g. the 3945 intel) it should be provided by the user and the only reason it is needed it is because intel only allows it this way
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10:56<fxiny>Guest306: simplicity ? interesting point
10:56<Plazzmex>cahoot: yeah
10:57<fxiny>i don't care if a driver is avaiable today or next week even if i bought a brand new box , i wait .
10:59-!-mode/#debian [+l 374] by debhelper
10:59<mrvn>fxiny: stupid. If I buy a brand new box I check the drivers beforehand and buy one that has drivers.
11:01-!-alephnull [~alok@] has joined #debian
11:02<Guest306>fxiny: See OpenBSD's wpi (driver) man page: . It's this kind of documentation I find so lacking in linux distros...
11:02<fxiny>mrvn: you ? i had a low mobo with a 3m something nick which was not detected by a 2.6.8 (iirc) , in a couple of weeks a new kenrel come and fixed it . i'm not stupid at all
11:03-!-mentor [~matthew@] has quit [Quit: mentor]
11:03<Guest306>for an interesting insight on linux GUI development, the ION author's blog is quite good IMHO:
11:04-!-alexb2283 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:04-!-ant- [] has joined #debian
11:04<fxiny>ion author ?
11:05<fxiny>wt4x !
11:05<fxiny>Guest306: no way i click ion author blog
11:05<Guest306>ion is a window manager for X (the best IMHO)
11:06<petemc>hes a nut tho
11:06<fxiny>Guest306: you jocking
11:06<Guest306>petemc: lol, really?
11:06<fxiny>ion author is is ... i have no words for him
11:06<Guest306>fxiny: actually I'm quite saddled :P
11:06<Guest306>fxiny: do try ;-)
11:07<fxiny>hahah no way
11:07<fxiny>i already put him into non-existance
11:07<Guest306>ion is good! you can force windows not to overlap each other and etc.
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11:08<Guest306>wekt invited to continue this conversation on #debian-offtopic. But let me just say ion is awesome
11:08<fxiny>Guest306: xmonad awesome are good , even wmii : i am a tiling windows manager user
11:08<fxiny>but ion ahhhhhhhhhhh
11:08<Guest306>I tried xmonad, but got used to ion faster...
11:09-!-miso [] has joined #debian
11:09<fxiny>can't find a word to describe him
11:09<Guest306>anyway, we should free this channel and continue this on offtopic, for the sake of other users trying to get help ;-)
11:09<fxiny>i mean the author
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11:10<Guest306>fxiny: he likes to walk and justifiably dislikes linux's lack of focus on graphics development and power users
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11:10<mrvn>Guest306: aren't they contrary?
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11:10<fxiny>Guest306: ion is on topic here and you knpow why ? because is not on debian anymore for a good reason , but yes no more talk about ion
11:11<Guest306>mrvn: sorry, meant "focus on power users"
11:11<Plazzmex>anyone please help.. what to do with this error : Video display is not possible with the current plugin configuration. Try playing with the configuration options of the V4L2 plugin.
11:11<mrvn>Guest306: still contrary
11:11<Plazzmex>i'm trying to use kdeTV
11:11<mrvn>Guest306: opposing directions
11:11-!-magellanino [] has joined #debian
11:12<Guest306>mrvn: linux lack of focus on graphics development is contrary to focus on power users?
11:12<Guest306>mrvn: power users use guis too, you know
11:12<mrvn>Guest306: yes
11:12<mrvn>Guest306: not really
11:12<Guest306>and OpenGL, and also develop to lesser users to use the computer without having to learn bash
11:13<Plazzmex>anyone ?
11:14<Guest306>mrvn: would you not consider the designer folk at Pixar as power users?
11:15<mrvn>Guest306: minority group
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11:15<cahoot>Guest306: is this at all #debian matter?
11:15<mrvn>Do they even use linux for the terminals?
11:16<Guest306>mrvn: maybe not, but some linux distros do pretend to focus on guis and usability, yet fail to appeal to power users. I will gladly continue this conversation on #debian-offtopic
11:17<lee>hmm say by chance does linux have light scribe technology?
11:18<fxiny>again ?
11:18<fxiny>why complaining ? be positive !
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11:20<wekt>lee: yes.
11:20-!-phinaliumz [] has joined #debian
11:20<wekt>lee: I only have seen proprietary lightscribe i think. don't have link handy.
11:20<Plazzmex>how to fix video4Linux errros ?
11:20-!-vistrcm [~stas@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:21-!-dominik [] has joined #debian
11:21<dominik>elo spece od ubuntu :D
11:21-!-dominik [] has left #debian []
11:22*goodger rolls eyes
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11:23<goodger>can anyone point me to that ubuntu bug in xchat that keeps bringing such people here? I'll write the damned patch myself
11:24<goodger>no, really, I'm serious
11:24<lee>meh that is ok,
11:25-!-GoNoGo [] has joined #debian
11:25<lee>hmm it is in the ubuntus programing its self I beleive lol
11:25<lee>seeing its is debian based, I think it refers to them ere
11:26-!-miso [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:26<lee>eh I think it is in the software of buntu that is
11:26<mrvn>Just patch it so it checks lsb_release to set the default channel
11:26-!-madrescher [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:26<lee>nevermind me I havn't slept well lol
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11:28<lee>eh going ot
11:31<goodger>mrvn: I'm not confident that should be handled on a distro level, and I'm certainly not prepared to jump into the upstream codebase and do something like that at my level of programming competence; the present issue is that the hardcoded value is incorrect
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11:32<mrvn>goodger: Somebody already jumped in and made it debian. And it certainly should be on a distro level given the ubuntu users showing up here
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11:33<goodger>mrvn: the patch to convert it from hardcoding to lsb should be on the level of the original codebase, not ubuntu
11:34<mrvn>goodger: I assume the patch to make it debian is in debian and not upstream. Fix that level.
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11:35<goodger>the patch to make it debian in debian is fine until you want to abandon hardcoding; evidently the problem here is that the ubuntu people have not _re_patched it to make it #ubuntu
11:35<mrvn>goodger: the ubuntu level is below the debian level. If you fix debian all derivates are fixed too.
11:35<lee>eh this is where I get lost. so many say rhere debian based, but then lack the stabillity
11:36<wekt>If you ask an ubuntu user what pointed them here, they should be able to tell you.
11:36<mrvn>goodger: Having every derivate to fix it manualy would be stupid if we have such a nice automatic method.
11:36<goodger>how many derivatives besides ubuntu and knoppix actually have this problem?
11:36<lee>hu wait, waht? I fergot to take out my vidoe card and debian is being nice?
11:36<lee>there must be something wrong here
11:37<mrvn>goodger: Isn't 3 patches vs one universal patch reason enough already?
11:37<lee>Ubuntu froze, opensuse froze
11:37-!-erKURITA [] has joined #debian
11:37<lee>debian no freeze?
11:37<themill>goodger, mrvn: it's an ubuntu patch to the debian patch to add in distro-specific channels. It's probably just a matter or putting "ubuntu" as the first entry in the list of channels.
11:37-!-habtool [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
11:37<goodger>mrvn: yes, but the universal patch is, by my programming skills, a massive increase in difficulty and would require submitting directly to xchat to make it useful
11:38<mrvn>goodger: further ubuntu is not fixing it as you can see. And having debian change it to hardcoded ubuntu would be even worse than using lsb_release
11:38<goodger>we don't want to change it in debian to hardcode to ubuntu, we want ubuntu to change it in ubuntu to hardcode to ubuntu
11:38-!-zevarito_ [] has joined #debian
11:38<mrvn>goodger: huh? You just check lsb_release and then set the string to match during compile. Where does that complicate the codebase anywhere?
11:39<goodger>mrvn: I wouldn't know where to begin
11:39<themill>mrvn: compile-time isn't the right time to be testing that, and it would make xchat build-dep on lsb (which it doesn't currently)
11:39<mrvn>goodger: you start by reading the patch that makes it default to debian
11:40<mrvn>themill: why not? and so what?
11:40-!-madrescher [] has joined #debian
11:40<goodger>mrvn: yes, I can change that patch to default to ubuntu quite easily
11:41<mrvn>goodger: then make it default to DEFAULT_CHANNEL and set that via configure or on the make call.
11:41<themill>mrvn: it's a crazy thing to have to build-dep on that will not please either the debian or ubuntu maintainers and it would prevent people cross-compiling packages too
11:41<themill>mrvn: have you looked at the code that chooses the default channel?
11:41<mrvn>themill: no.
11:41<mrvn>is it a runtime thing already?
11:42-!-Flakk [] has joined #debian
11:43<mrvn>anyway, my point was that it should just be changed in debian so non-debian compiles don't get out default. Ubuntu is obviously not going to fix their source and they would just get out fix by default.
11:43-!-amphy [] has joined #debian
11:43<lee>hmm what's the possibillity of a debian rep contcting ubuntu and asking the to change there default irc
11:43-!-zevarito [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:43<goodger>mrvn: I am working on the basis of ubuntu being unwilling to do the work, rather than unwilling to accept a patch
11:44-!-jifix [] has joined #debian
11:44<mrvn>goodger: Even if they accept a patch that is worse than debian just adding it directly. There is no reason for debian to make them fork another package if it can be avoided.
11:45-!-colton [] has joined #debian
11:45<themill>mrvn: as far as I can see there is no "default" (not that I have ever used xchat... this is just what I can see in the code) Instead, there is just a list of "well known" channels. Debian sticks #debian as the first option to make it easy for people to find it. Ubuntu is adding themselves in second rather than first.
11:45<colton>join #sdl
11:45-!-colton [] has quit []
11:45<lee>so if I am fallowing you correctly on this
11:45-!-Nazcafan [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:46<lee>when a diostro like ubuntu catches on to a great source like debian
11:46<themill>I suspect there is also a large degree or willful ignorance in all of this -- people choose to ask their questions in #debian because they think they are more likely to get a clueful answer to a technical question and because it's quieter and easier to follow. #ubuntu moves past pretty damned quick with the 1300 people in there.
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11:46<goodger>mrvn: if you're going to add a patch to debian for the specific purpose of improving debian derivatives then it is only fair to add it to the original codebase so that things like fedora and suse and all the other hundreds of distros can benefit also
11:46<lee>the basicaly change the interfaces and eh er the color schemes and such?
11:46<lee>oh and the repos
11:47<Flakk>Hello people I have a problem connecting two machines (debian stable on both) with an ethernet crossover cable. I am using Konqueror for moving files from one machine to another. There is a nice program "fish" which works but strangely only in one direction: when I connect a machin A to B via fish everything is OK, while connect B to A the connection is refused. Any help?
11:47-!-amphy_ [] has joined #debian
11:47<mrvn>goodger: one has nothing to do with the other. But feel free to make a patch benefitial to suse and rh too.
11:48<_shai_>Flakk: I think fish is based on ssh. Do both systems have an ssh server running?
11:48<mrvn>fish is a protocol, not a programm.
11:48<goodger>mrvn: an lsb-based patch would be useful to every distro if any
11:48<Flakk>_shai_ : I have installed openssh-server on both, but I do not know how to check whether the server is up
11:48<Flakk>mrvn: thsnk for the info
11:49<_shai_>mrvn: I thought fish uploaded a perl script over ssh and used that to do the transfers.
11:49<mrvn>Flakk: try ssh other-host on both systems
11:49<weasel>fish is many things
11:49<lee>I prefer cod lol
11:49<goodger>lee: their official design goal is basically to make debian more accessible to ordinary humans; their unofficial goal, I believe, is to attract windows users. this is achieved by changing the software to be easier to use, and adding in lots of shiny features such as compiz which unfortunately don't work properly, and are insufficiently tested due to ubuntu's obsession with regular (frequent) releases
11:50<lee>yes good ol compiz, the evile that renders my ati useless
11:50<lee>amungst other things
11:50<Flakk>mrvn: ssh [other-host] says "Host key verification failed". and you are right: from the other machine it is OK...
11:51<lee>and I have noticed that obsesion... they pretty much killed the ps3 versions all togeather
11:51-!-amphy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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11:53<lee>any rate, oh by chane have you heard that ydl has been given permision to access the ps3's video ram for ydl still crashes though
11:53<Flakk>mrvn: so what should I do? the message says: add correct host key to .ssh/known_hosts
11:53<Flakk>but i do not know what is the correct host key
11:53<lee>whats the chances of debian being able to use that code?
11:53<mrvn>Flakk: doesn't it say something about a bad entry too? remove that
11:54<Flakk>mrvn: it says Offending key in .ssh/known_hosts:5 -- what does it mean?
11:54<mrvn>line 5 in that file
11:55<Flakk>ok so I remove the fifth line, right?
11:55<mrvn>Flakk: your host key differs from the one noted there
11:55<lee>hmm so in line 5 there is an offending or bad file
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11:55<mrvn>Flakk: if you are sure nobody has corrupted your network and substituted the key or some such then sure.
11:57<lee>I heard hooror stories of people failing to cnage ther admin pass on there routers
11:57<Flakk>mrvn: I can not be sure of course. What can happen if I wipe out that line?
11:57<mrvn>Flakk: next time you use ssh it will ask you if you trust the new key and if somebody has hacked that then he can sniff or abuse your ssh connections.
11:58<Flakk>Ok I see. well I am trying
11:58<mrvn>Flakk: But it is kind of hard to play man-in-the-middle on a crossover cable.
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11:59<Flakk>mrvn: just 1 sec - I do not quite understand where is the "5" line. they are quite long in this file
12:00<mrvn>Flakk: open the file, press down 4 times
12:00<EmleyMoor>Flakk: What's your editor?
12:00<Flakk>i suspect that each line starts with |1|. Is that correct?
12:01-!-habtool [] has joined #debian
12:01<Flakk>I have five such "lines"
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12:08<sun>does anyone know which plugin you need to get xmms to play m4a (mp4/aac/apple) audio?
12:09-!-mode/#debian [+l 381] by debhelper
12:09<fxiny>Guest306: ;)
12:09<Flakk>mrvn: THAT WORKS! thanks a lot!!
12:10<mrvn>happy fishing
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12:10<Guest306>fxiny: got a bit angry ;-) Glad you can keep your humor :-)
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12:11<themill>sun: faad is the only thing in debian that I know of that can touch m4a files. No idea if it can be used by xmms. xmms2 can certainly do it though.
12:12<fxiny>themill: m4a ? you mean ape files ?
12:13<themill>fxiny: ape? whatever you want to call mp4 audio as described by ISO/IEC 14496-14:2003
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12:14<fxiny>ahh mp4 video files
12:15-!-ozyman [] has quit []
12:15<themill>fxiny: well... they can have audio only. it's actually just another one of these container formats so it's not just a question of the file format but also the codec of what's in it. Back to the good old days of incompatible TIFFs!
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12:18<fxiny>themill: i was thinking about ape files , mac files , mostly p2p classical music , one cd large file rip . i found the xmms pluging on etch , i can play ape with xmms but not with xmms2
12:18-!-chealer [~chealer@] has joined #debian
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12:18<fxiny>mplayer can play mp4
12:19-!-znyto [] has joined #debian
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12:19<fxiny>i think it was on rarewares
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12:20<Xtigyro>Hello, Folks! I wish you happy new year!
12:20<Xtigyro>My question is how to make EXA acceleration method working faster with X.Org 7.3. I use RadeonHD 1.2.3 Driver.
12:20-!-darrob [] has joined #debian
12:21<Xtigyro>and it's really slow with xorg 7.3
12:21-!-ivan-irc [] has joined #debian
12:21-!-vistrcm [~stas@] has joined #debian
12:21<ivan-irc>ciao a tutti
12:22<abrotman>Xtigyro: which version of debian?
12:22<fxiny>sun: browse to rerewares unofficial debian > xmms-mp4plugin
12:22-!-ivan-irc [] has left #debian []
12:23<abrotman>Xtigyro: that was not an invitation to msg me
12:23<abrotman>Xtigyro: stop msging me
12:24<fxiny>sun: hold on > xmms-mp4 is avaiable at >
12:24-!-pc [~pc@] has joined #debian
12:24-!-pc is now known as Slown
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12:25<Xtigyro>abrot: why r u helping, when u don't want "smb" to "msg" u
12:25<abrotman>Xtigyro: i'm not sure there is a way to make it faster .. you might just get what you get
12:25<abrotman>can't parse .. done
12:25<Slown>I want to know how I can locked a folder
12:25<Xtigyro>mm the speed with XAA method
12:25<EmleyMoor>Slown: What do you want to lok it against?
12:26<Xtigyro>is not enough
12:26-!-adema [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:26<Xtigyro>to play video files normally
12:26<Slown>I want to lock a folder
12:26<Xtigyro>with my X1600 Mobility
12:26-!-darrob2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:26<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... is this keyboard misfiring or am I?
12:26<dpkg>The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel.
12:26<Slown>I try chmod +l
12:26<EmleyMoor>Slown: Lock it against what exactly happening to it?
12:27<Slown>You can't access to it
12:27<Slown>you have a message like locked folder
12:27<abrotman>!tell Slown about permissions
12:27-!-fddfoo [~fdd@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:27<Xtigyro>have a nice day, everybody
12:28<Slown>permissions you can't read or write in folder
12:28<Slown>you see ?
12:28<dpkg>For more information on permissions, read info coreutils 'File Permissions' and or - for even further info see these and, or follow the setuid and setgid links found in the wikipedia pages, or
12:28<EmleyMoor>Slown: Yes
12:28-!-freealan [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:28<Slown>I have an other question please
12:28<Slown>I have a network
12:28<Slown>My server uses debian
12:28<Slown>and my laptop uses windows
12:28<mrvn>did you
12:29<mrvn>read the
12:29<mrvn>part about
12:29<mrvn>pressing enter?
12:29<Slown>my question is, if my network works normally
12:29<Slown>or I most install debian in my laptop
12:30<EmleyMoor>Slown: What do you want it to do?
12:30*fxiny polishes the old crystall ball
12:30-!-path_ [] has joined #debian
12:30<abrotman>mrvn: that wasn't really for him .. but also applies i suppose :)
12:30<Slown>what do you mean ?
12:30-!-Caroll [~caroll@] has joined #debian
12:30<EmleyMoor>I mean do you want to do thingso between the two machines?
12:31-!-Piet [] has joined #debian
12:31<mrvn>abrotman: couldn't resist. :)
12:32<EmleyMoor>Are you jusust asking if mixing operating systems in the same network is OK?
12:32<EmleyMoor>Just, even
12:32<Slown>it's my question
12:32<s_i_m>Slown, your two machines can happily coexist in one local network
12:32<s_i_m>(if you configure both properly)
12:33<EmleyMoor>I have one and a half Windows boxen and three and a half Debian on mine.
12:33-!-Bloodkil [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:33<Slown>but I ask how ?
12:34<Slown>my machine with internet uses debian
12:34<Slown>and I want to share connection
12:34-!-madrescher [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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12:34<Xtigyro>use, this is not the right place to ask sth different from "the very basic stuff"
12:35<Slown>it's not basic
12:35<Slown>it's not so simple :)
12:35<Slown>I want have network
12:35<Xtigyro>exactly, and here nobody can answer you because of that
12:35<Xtigyro>bye bye
12:35<dpkg>If all you want is NAT (internet connection sharing), aptitude install ipmasq; and be happy. Otherwise learn about it at
12:35<fxiny>Slown: is your windows box coomunicating with your debian box ?
12:36<Slown>I have an internet connection
12:36<Slown>I like to use PC1 like a gateway
12:36<Slown>to share internet with the laptop
12:36<Slown>which uses windows
12:37<fxiny>rigth , i think i have what you want
12:37<abrotman>Slown: lay off the enter key
12:37<Slown>thanks fxiny
12:37<abrotman>Xtigyro: quit trolling
12:37-!-Flakk [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:37<cahoot>Slown: not considered investing in a router? - would simplify matters a lot
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12:37<fxiny>Slown: you want docs , nive docs , diagrams and all : install shorewall-doc , and read
12:38-!-xlotlu [~john@] has joined #debian
12:38<abrotman>he wants the ipmasq package
12:39<fxiny>first he must undertsand what networking is and i think installing shoreall-doc is better then googling
12:40<abrotman>he doesn't *have to*
12:40<themill>fxiny: since when have we ever encouraged people to understand what they're doing here?? Geez!
12:40<lee>yeah I had my berief counters with building a net work
12:40<lee>I can say it was an adventure lol
12:41<fxiny>themill: i think a packaged doc is better then a google search
12:41<abrotman>fxiny: why not read or ?
12:41<mrvn>lee: you have seen nothing till you have routed for a bunch of systems chain linked via serial cables.
12:41<fxiny>because he's a noob and shorewall-docs diagrams are clear
12:42<abrotman>so is
12:42<lee>erg well I took one lok at taht at kltv and eh well your right, lol, I wanted nothing to do with that lol
12:42<themill>mrvn: back in the day, we used wheelbarrows full of punchcards...
12:42<s_i_m>fxiny, it can be so that a working net _at_first_ can be even better =)
12:42<fxiny>s_i_m: :)
12:42<lee>lots of spegetty
12:42<mrvn>themill: that is broadly called sneakernet. Have you passed the punchcards along from one to the other?
12:43<mrvn>themill: i.e. routed as opposed to a star network
12:43<EmleyMoor>Bandwidth was a measure of how many cards a particular barrow could hold and how long the journey took
12:43<abrotman>oh .. token ring!
12:43<abrotman>"Uh oh... the choochoo fell off the tracks"
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12:44<mrvn>EmleyMoor: and how ofthe there was a collision and the contents of 2 barrows spilled and mixed.
12:44<abrotman>when i was at uni .. a TR card had a short of some sort .. and it was putting way way way too many choochoos on the tracks
12:44<lee>um I thaught that bandwidth was homany lanes the higeay hadd befor it congestd
12:44<lee>eh *highway
12:45<lee>I guess I was wrong
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12:45<mrvn>lee: we only have one thick ethernet cable.
12:45*EmleyMoor empties the bitbucket
12:45-!-pc [] has joined #debian
12:45<mrvn>EmleyMoor: now you lost your token.
12:45<themill>bandwidth of a box of dvds in the post is still pretty impressive
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12:46<mrvn>themill: does a dvd have more bandwidth than a harddisk per weight?
12:46<EmleyMoor>A station wagon full of magtape
12:46<abrotman>mrvn: that depends on the storage capacity of each
12:47*abrotman throws a pile of 500MB HDDs at mrvn
12:47<lee>hmm I hasve only one pice of copper going to a box that changes one peice of copper to many 6 pieces of copper
12:47<mrvn>abrotman: well, dual layer and 1tb?
12:47<themill>mrvn: blueray probably does... perhaps. Go work it out and let me know :)
12:47<mrvn>themill: blueray has to become cheaper this year. I'm running out of DVDs and i don't want to buy any more.
12:47<s_i_m>EmeleyMoor, that is from Tannenbaum's book, IIRC.
12:48<EmleyMoor>Yes, I believe it is
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12:48<lee>hmm, I have noticed on thing though blue rays seem to be solid 1 disk where as dvds seem to be eh 2 disks laid ontop of eachoter
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12:49<mrvn>lee: the cheap cd/dvd are a transparent medium, the color layer sprayed on, then the reflective layer and than a cover for writing. The better ones have 2 clear disks with the data in the middle.
12:49<lee>oh col didn't know that
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12:50<EmleyMoor>I am planning to go blu-ray as soon as it becomes affordable and I next need a drive
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12:50<lee>taht explains why the chepies "split" or divorce echother..
12:50<mrvn>lee: I have a cheap one with a defect. It got banged and a flake came off. Now you can look through.
12:50<themill>for shits and giggles, try putting a cheap CD or DVD into an ultrasonic cleaning bath...
12:50<themill>but be prepared to spend some time cleaning it out afterwards
12:51<lee>hmm why do that when with memorex cheapies I could Peel the coating off by hand
12:51<lee>hmm thekill ever hear of a cd exploding?
12:51-!-mtn [] has joined #debian
12:51<mrvn>lee: nah, the art is in scratching away the right bits so you end up with a debian install medium.
12:52<fxiny>dvd are cheap
12:52-!-mtn [] has quit []
12:52<lee>well I had a cd recorder and when I put the disk , the whole disk jsut exploded, sounded like a frie cracker going off
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12:53<lee>opend up the cd rom and it sliced the disk reading ribon all but in half
12:53<EmleyMoor>I heard of a cracked CD shattering in a fast drive once
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12:53<mrvn>fxiny: Cheaper than 0,072E/GB?
12:53<fxiny>it reminds me an old joke with floppies :P
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12:53<lee>hm this wasn't cracked it was off ballance
12:54<abrotman>was there painton it ?
12:54<lee>I now try to stay away from cheapies
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12:54<abrotman>no .. i meant like a game CD ..
12:54<fxiny>mrvn: i bought 400 for 80 ¤ . sold 100 to the local butcher for 60 ¤ . so i have 300 for 20¤ , definetly cheap :)
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12:55<fxiny>ask enouf :P
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12:55<mrvn>fxiny: just barely cheaper (the 400) and you have to consider error rate.
12:56<Slurb>debian roxx
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12:56*themill wonders what encoding fxiny's little stars are supposed to be in
12:56<fxiny>you know how much the local shop charges for 100 ? 90 ¤
12:56<fxiny>themill: is the euro symbol : en_US.ISO-8859-15
12:57<fxiny>mrvn: i bought good ones : never had errors
12:57<themill>ahh,... see, I'm watching the channel in utf-8
12:57<EmleyMoor>I only see a funny mess when I try and it ought to work here
12:57<fxiny>themill: utf8 sucks and i am on mrxvt :)
12:58<mrvn>fxiny: Have you tested after half a year of storage or 2 years?
12:58<fxiny>mrvn: yes , i know that
12:58<fxiny>mrvn: i stear away from cheap ones
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12:59<fxiny>mrvn: but honeslty , i fear i can have a surprise soon or later , i hate plastic
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13:00<mrvn>fxiny: do you use ras to create paritiy disks?
13:01<fxiny>mrvn: explain :)
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13:01<mrvn>fxiny: ras can take say 5 iso images and generate another one. Then later you can restore a missing image if you have any 5 in total.
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13:02<mrvn>fxiny: it can do x real + y redundancy images up to x+y = 256
13:02<EmleyMoor>BBC headline conveying an unintended meaning: Trains hit by damaged power lines
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13:03<fxiny>mrvn: i did not know it !
13:03<fxiny>!beer mrvn
13:03*dpkg deftly decants a fine Piraat for mrvn
13:04<fxiny>mrvn: so i can create an extra iso and burn it ? how big it will be ?
13:04<mrvn>fxiny: I used to use it with floppy images I carried home from university. Some floppy always had an error so i just made a few more for the Debian mirror update.
13:05<mrvn>fxiny: same size or 6 bytes bigger if you don't want to have to remember the name.
13:05<paggas>2.6.28 will enter testing after lenny is released?
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13:05<Slurb>2.6.28 has a bug i found
13:05<mrvn>paggas: unless .29 is in sid by then
13:05<Slurb>nvidia driver will not compile
13:06<mgoetze>Slurb: that's not a bug, it's a feature ;)
13:06<Slurb>i run
13:06<Slurb>nvidia rocks
13:07<fxiny>mrvn: floppies ? i know i can format a floppy bigger then the usual size
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13:07<Slurb>better than ati imho
13:07<s_i_m>Slurb, try reporting that to LKML ;)
13:07<themill>Slurb: that's not a bug in the kernel, that's a bug in the nvidia driver. Tell them about it and tell them to make it free software while you're at it.
13:07<Slurb>its in the kernel i found it online
13:07<Slurb>i think
13:07<Slurb>may be in the driver
13:07<fxiny>mrvn: anyway this is the most useful tip i had in the last year , thanx is not enough :)
13:07<Slurb>nvidia driver is free
13:08<mrvn>fxiny: np
13:08<Slurb>not open but free
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13:08<themill>dpkg: tell Slurb about free
13:08<themill>Slurb: we use a different meaning for "free" in the Free Software Movement.
13:08<Slurb>dpkg free!
13:08<dpkg>free is, like, defined in English with many different meanings of which only one refers to cost. easier in french, or 'free beer' = gratuit 'free speech' = libre, or, or free (procps) tells you how much memory is used/wasted ("Mem:"), and how much is being necessarily used/could be freed ("-/+ buffers/cache:")
13:08<flightplan>Slurb: freeware != free software
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13:09<Slurb>nvidia driver is free to download
13:09<flightplan>but not quite free to hack on ...
13:09<themill>Slurb: but you are not free to do whatever you want with it. Therefore it is not free software.
13:09<EmleyMoor>Without cost but without freedom
13:09<mrvn>free as in beer
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13:10<Slurb>typed quit instead of q
13:10<fxiny>money has nothing to do with freedom but with debt
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13:11<cahoot>money makes limited freedom more bearable
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13:12<fxiny>because when the freedom is limited money find buyers
13:13<Slurb>freedom does have its consequences, but i believe its here
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13:23<Landry87>\join irc://
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13:24<Landry87>\server irc://
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13:25<And1>Any ideas, why 'xsetroot -solid "#0f0f0f"' doesn't work/do anything?
13:26<mrvn>And1: your WM might have a window open over the root for its background
13:27-!-Apollo [jw@] has joined #debian
13:27<And1>Hmm. Don't think so. I set a wallpaper with nitrogen. It seems, that this wallpapers is above the root-display, is that possible?
13:27<mrvn>try xwininfo
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13:28<And1>xwininfo: Window id: 0x1a6 (the root window) (has no name)
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13:29<And1>... when I click on my desktop/"on the wallpaper".
13:29-!-faw [] has joined #debian
13:30<mrvn>no idea then
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13:45<mcprtk>why so quiet over here, eh?
13:48<abrotman>you ruined it
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13:53<miso>hi. iahve question abut lirc where should i ask ?
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13:54<abrotman>you can try here
13:54<mcprtk>yeah, go on!
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13:56<miso>hmm ok, i want to use irexec(in lircrc) , but for exact "window id" is it possible ?
13:59<miso>for irxevent handler is posible but with irxec also ?
14:01<Guest306>My system hangs (with the message "Suspending console(s)" when, on the process of suspending to ram, I close the laptop lid. How can I diagnose this problem? I'm using Debian lenny.
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14:10<s_i_m>Guest306, what happens if you simply close the lid? Without starting suspend to ram before that?
14:12<Guest306>s_i_m: monitor turns off, system continues running normally
14:13<Guest306>with the lid open it suspends flawlessly, as I've been doing for weeks. It's just when I want to close the lid when it's suspending that it hangs :-(
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14:14<s_i_m>Guest306, do you have any power management daemon installed?
14:14<Guest306>s_i_m: not consciously ;-) What can I do to check it out?
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14:16<s_i_m>Guest306, hm. Do you use gnome or kde?
14:17<Guest306>er, neither actually. I'm using Ion...
14:17<s_i_m>how do you suspend?
14:18<Guest306>I use "hibernate-ram"
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14:19<ranix>hibernating and suspending are different iirc
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14:20<Guest306>hmmm. The man page says: "The hibernate script (or "suspend script") is used to invoke the Linux kernel’s Software Suspend functionality."
14:20<Guest306>but maybe I'm using the wrong script?
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14:21<ranix>that sounds a little vague
14:21<Guest306>straight from the manual...
14:21<ranix>hibernating is a form of suspending, but suspending is not necessarily hibernating
14:21<ranix>hibernating is specifically dumping ram to memory and turning off
14:22<ranix>ehr, dumping ram to disk
14:22<Guest306>maybe is one of those unix things that the script/binary name doesn't quite correspond to its only purpose
14:22<ranix>then restoring it on boot later
14:22<ranix>yeah could be
14:22<mcprtk>i guess the acpi is conflicting with the system
14:22<Guest306>like wpa_supplicant that can also be used to configure wep, and etc.
14:24<Guest306>mcprtk: Yeah. Maybe the signal of getting the lid closed is conflicting with some kernel shennaningans or whatnot
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14:25<Guest306>but it doesn't give any errors on screen. It simply hangs :(
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14:25<mcprtk>try booting with acpi=off if u have grub installed
14:26<Guest306>wouldn't turning off acpi also disable my ability to suspend to ram?
14:26<Guest306>they're quite related aren't they?
14:27<mcprtk>yeah, thats a valid point...... didnt think about that..... turning off acpi is likely to disable suspend to ram
14:27<EmleyMoor>For some reason event sounds from psi are no longer working correctly - playing multiple times and self-interrupting. Why would that happen?
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14:29<simonrvn>shooting in the dark here, but how about sending the close lid signal, wait, then suspending? sounds like it's doing something like close lid -> suspend. might also be some driver keeping it from suspending, in an eternal loop.
14:29<s_i_m>Guest306, paste the output of 'ps aux' somewhere, we will see what you are running besides acpid
14:30<abrotman>or having the lid switch do nothing ?
14:31<simonrvn>could do that too, might be the lid signal affecting it
14:31<mcprtk>what controls the lid switch?
14:31<simonrvn>htfsik :)
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14:34<Guest306>ps aux >
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14:35<Guest306>abrotman: excellent idea! maybe if I blank /etc/acpi/ it would stop hanging
14:36<mcprtk>back it up first
14:36<abrotman>you don't have to blank it .. you can put "exit 0" after the shebang at the top
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14:36<Guest306>I'm learning more at every second ;-) Thanks.
14:37<simonrvn>don't delete what you might want later
14:38<EmleyMoor>Better to comment out than to delete
14:39-!-mode/#debian [+l 381] by debhelper
14:39<abrotman>no need to even comment out of you add the 'exit 0'
14:39<Guest306>ok... everything set, let's do this
14:39<EmleyMoor>Yes, that's good too
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14:43<marco>hi, guest306 here. Didn't work
14:43-!-marco is now known as Guest343
14:43<Guest343>closed the lid and it hanged
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14:44<Guest343> is properly doing nothing, as I put the "exit 0" on top. It's certainly not the script
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14:44<mcprtk>what does ur laptop do when u just close the lid?
14:45<dpkg>nun uv us wull unswer yu uf yu ask luke u murun.
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14:45<Guest343>it continues running normally (a behaviour I quite like, btw)
14:46<mcprtk>runs normally...... if u dont mind, which model is it?
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14:46<Guest343>a Dell Vostro 1310
14:46<mcprtk>google for it
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14:46<Guest343>good advice!
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14:47<abrotman>did you check the system logs .. sometimes it will show you which script imploded
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14:52<Guest343>hmmm, syslog shows nothing interesting. It also didn't record the last "suspending console(s)" message, as it did when it sucessfully suspended
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14:53<mcprtk>what does it show before the machine hangs?
14:54<Guest343>last message before hanging: " usbcore: deregistering interface driver uvcvideo"
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14:55<Guest343>the next message should be "PM: Syncing filesystems ... done."
14:55<valdyn>Guest343: try without external hardware that might break suspending
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14:56<Guest343>said webcam (uvcvideo) is integrated, integrated bluetooth is disabled
14:56<Guest343>and it suspends just fine with both enabled, but I need to keep the lid open on the process of suspending
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14:56<Guest343>if I close during the process, it goes kaput
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15:00<Guest343>the lack of messages on syslog could be that it apparently syncs the cache after the "suspending console(s)" message
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15:01<EmleyMoor>Is there a program for playing audio CDs that will display the CD-TEXT if any as it does?
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15:02<mcprtk>emleymoor: yeah, loads..... kscd for instance
15:02<Guest343>is there a way to disable delayed writing on the FS? Maybe then an non-displayed error message is printed to syslog!
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15:04<mrvn>Guest343: mount with sync
15:04<EmleyMoor>kscd? Hmmm... will look at that
15:04<mrvn>Guest343: can't you use a serial console or logging over network?
15:05<EmleyMoor>Don't have many (and only one commercial) with CD-TEXT but I do tend to include it on my remasters and repairs
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15:05<Guest343>mrvn: hmmm. It doesn't have a serial port, and the network interfaces seem to go down before the dangerous moment...
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15:07<dnh0fwh20>i cant get the the system time and the kde console time to synchronize
15:07<Guest343>ok, I did a "mount /dev/mapper/sda8_crypt / -o sync,remount", let's see what happens...
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15:08<mrvn>urgs, crypted as well. another layer to get past
15:09<mcprtk>dnh, try hwclock
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15:09<mcprtk>read the man pages
15:10<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... that probably needs wired audio...
15:11<mcprtk>wired audio?
15:11<mcprtk>whats that?
15:11<EmleyMoor>Where the audio out of the CD drive is connected to a sound card or amplifier
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15:13<mcprtk>the cd drive needs to be connected to the sound card if u want audio cd playback
15:13<mcprtk>hey dell
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15:14<dell>i've got a little problem with installing debian on my netbook via usb stick
15:14-!-sdljfhs0h0 [] has joined #debian
15:14<mcprtk>whats the problem?
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15:15<mcprtk>hey janez
15:15<EmleyMoor>mcrptk: ... with those programs that do it directly, yes
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15:15<dell>i tried to make the usb stick bootable and copy the business card edtition on it
15:15<dell>i copied it using dd
15:16<janez>i cant compile alsa utils, the output is this
15:16<dell>but it doesn't boot the debian installer from my usb stick
15:16-!-marco_ [] has joined #debian
15:16<mcprtk>why compile alsa-utils, use apt-get to install kt
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15:17<mcprtk>dell: does ur bios support usb booting?
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15:17<dell>yes. i installed ubuntu on my usb stick and i can boot ubuntu directly from it
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15:18<mcprtk>ubuntu questions arent answered here, this is a debian chatroom
15:18<marco_>hah, look at the last message before hanging this time: "PM: Syncing filesystems ... done."
15:18<marco_>I guess syncing didn't do much after all ;-)
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15:19<dell>yes i know but this is the proof that my system supports booting from usb
15:19<dell>now i want to install debian using a usb stick
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15:21<marco_>I guess I'll just have to live with it, or at least hope one of the developers get the same laptop model I'm using ;-)
15:21<mcprtk>dell: ok......... did u make the usb stick bootable, that is install the kernel binary and initrd?
15:22<dell>i don't think so. how can i do this?
15:22<mcprtk>there is a debian usb version available
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15:27<EmleyMoor>Hm - KsCD is only hasf finding the disc - it has pulled text that definitely came from it but says it isn't there
15:27<simonrvn>same place you got the business card iso
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15:29<mcprtk>ididnt get u emleymoor
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15:31<EmleyMoor>The display in KsCD is showing the title of the first track, and the drop-down knows them all. The disc is one of my own - the names came from CD-TEXT, not CDDB... but it also shows "No disc", and as a resultt won't play
15:31<EmleyMoor>(Sound Juicer can play it)
15:31-!-hw [] has joined #debian
15:32<mcprtk>how does it display the names from cdtext and wont play?!? wierd!
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15:33-!-Netsplit <-> quits: FloodServ
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15:35-!-FloodServ is "FloodServ" on (unknown)
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15:38<marco_>EmleyMoor, just started kscd, putting audio cd now...
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15:39<marco_>it's asking for an entry from CDDB, got it right...
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15:39<marco_>it pretends to be playing but no sound is coming out of the speakers. What rubbish.
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15:40<marco_>mplayer plays the same CD just fine
15:41<marco_>is there a particular reason to use ksCD?
15:41<dell>mcprtk: i downloaded the boot.img.gz and put it with zcat boot.img.gz > /dev/sdd on my stick
15:42<dell>but it can't be mounted after it copied the boot.img on the stick
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15:42<EmleyMoor>Looking for one that displays CD-TEXT
15:42<marco_>I may be speaking nonsense, but wouldn't "dd" be more appropriate to write the image to the stick?
15:44<marco_>EmleyMoor: I'm shooting blind here, but have you tried VLC?
15:44-!-NinjaMan [] has joined #debian
15:44<dell>i followed this manual
15:44<mcprtk>does VLC display cd text?
15:44-!-morph__ [] has joined #debian
15:44<mcprtk>i dont think so
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15:45<dell>now i can't access my stick using cfdisk
15:45-!-laurence [] has quit []
15:45<dell>fatal error
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15:46<marco_>"CD-Text information provided via libcdio. This service is available on all platforms supported by the library." - according to a dodgy cache from google:
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15:47<brain>Can anyone help me, I just started using Linux and have no idea what I am doing. I am trying to install Limewire.
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15:48<mcprtk>no idea, but if u ask me i would say, DONT INSTALL LIMEWIRE............ IT SUCKS
15:48<marco_>dell: that's kind of weird. The page you referenced seem to imply that the image has a partition table
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15:48<marco_>or at least has a way to boot the FAT filesystem contained in it
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15:49<brain>Well, I have always used limewire on all my windows system, with a healthy virus program backing it. Is there something esle that you wuld recommend?
15:49<dell>now i'm a little bit confused
15:49<marco_>have you tried this command? (mount /dev/sdd /mnt)
15:49<dell>wait i'll try it
15:50<marco_>it should mount the filesystem on the stick on /mnt
15:50<marco_>it should give no errors
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15:56<dell>i formatted the isb stick with fdisk
15:56<marco_>you actually partitioned it with fdisk
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15:56<marco_>did it mount?
15:56<dell>now it is "fresh"
15:56<dell>now i can access it with cfdisk
15:57<dell>yes it mounts
15:57<dell>now i copy the boot.img.gz with zcat to the stick
15:57<marco_>right. the problem is that if you redo the procedure described on the site, you'll wipe that partition table (which you are seeing through cfdisk)
15:58<marco_>but do try, let's see what will happen
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15:59<dell>now after copying it mounts
16:00<dell>no i copy the businesscard.iso to the stick
16:00<dell>and now i reboot my netbook
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16:01<edo>salut tlm
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16:02<dell>:( boot error
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16:02<marco_>you zcat'ed the image to /dev/sdd right? not /dev/sdd1?
16:03<dell>yes to /dev/sdd
16:03<dell>the stick doesn't have any other partitions
16:04<dell>just /dev/sdd
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16:04<marco_>the weird thing is, is that the site instructs to mount /dev/sda directly, not a specific partition of /dev/sda (say /dev/sda1)
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16:06<dell>i'll try it with 4.4.2. of the manual now
16:07<marco_>what's the link of the image file you are using? Maybe I can take a look.
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16:11<dell>i followed the instructions of 4.4.2. of the manual
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16:12<dell>but when i try to install syslinux to the stick i get the following error: only 512-byte sectors are supported
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16:13<dell>maybe this is the error
16:13<dell>that my stick has more than 512-byte sector
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16:16<mrvn>dell: install grub or lilo
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16:16<dell>on the stick?
16:16<mrvn>sure. why not?
16:17<dell>and how can i do that?
16:18<dell>and how does grub helps me to install debian from usb stick
16:19<mrvn>dell: you just need a way to boot the install kernel+initrd.
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16:20<dell>ok. can you tell me how i can install grub to my usb stick?
16:20<marco_>dell: the image you provided the link doesn't seem to have a partition table
16:20<EmleyMoor>vlc uncooperative too :-(
16:21<dell>marco_: ok
16:21<marco_>EmleyMoor: :( sorry to hear...
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16:22<marco_>dell: cfdisk shouldn't have seen a partition table in it
16:22<mrvn>dell: google gurb usb and you get a ton of hits
16:22<marco_>i suggest disconnecting the stick, and trying from the top
16:24<marco_>zcat boot.img.gz > /dev/sdd && mount /dev/sdd /mnt && cp /path/to/debianiso.iso /mnt
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16:24<marco_>the guide you posted also recommended using a program called "install-mbr" if the stick is not booting, you may take a look at that too
16:24<dell>I'll try it with grub first
16:25<dell>i found something how to install it on a usb drive
16:25<marco_>do what you think is best :-)
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16:30<Phuein>Hi ^_^ In it's FAQ, Debian claims to be the only major distro' that doesn't rely on a commercial company (like Redhat+Fedora or Novell+Suse etc). Is there really no other like it?
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16:34<Tarcas>Phuein: You've pretty much named most of the major distros. Anything else you find that's not tied to a commercial company isn't going to be a big player.
16:35<valdyn>i dont know if gentoo is backed by a company or if patrick volderding should count as a company
16:35-!-AbsintheSyringe2 is now known as AbsintheSyringe
16:36<Phuein>And besides gentoo?
16:36<mgoetze>well, gentoo isn't all that big
16:37<mgoetze>it just has some users with very big mouths
16:37<lee>hmm might I sugest something that is if you have an external hdd
16:37<Phuein>btw, I'm learning that the current stable release for Deb' comes with KDE 3.5. Can I upgrade into KDE 4 once it's installed? Any issues?
16:37<lee>and one that is free
16:37<lee>I did a net install
16:37<valdyn>Phuein: you cant, its not supported
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16:38<Phuein>KDE 4 is not supported? O_O Anywhere I can read more about the discussion of this?
16:38<lee>but I dc'd the main driove
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16:38<dpkg>kde4 is a new and not-yet-complete version of the KDE desktop. It will not be released with Lenny but backports of KDE 4 packages are likely to be made. (For lenny backports, see See <Experimental> packages for KDE 4.1 are available at but ask about these in #debian-kde, not #debian. See <kde version>.
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16:39<Phuein>This is horrible news for me as a Fedora 9 user :S I wanted to try Deb' especially because its not supported by any commercial company
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16:40<craigevil-eee>Phuein: if your running sid you can get kde4.2 at
16:40<melkart>Phuein: are you sure you want kde4? i am so glad that debian still ships kde3 this time
16:41<melkart>Phuein: kde3 is like win xp pro, kde4 is like vista
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16:42<lee>I never thaught I 'd hear it
16:42<Phuein>melkart, I use KDE4, and I used 3... and 4 is much better. Even with its problems. 3 is horribly limited and not kewl.
16:42<lee>linux being coimpared with MS
16:42<Phuein>craigevil-eee, what's sid? im now doing the appropriate reading
16:42<lee>but i see ones point lol
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16:42<EmleyMoor>"sid" is the permanent codename of unstable
16:43<mgoetze>Phuein: well, kde4 is not supported on debian, but neither is anything else, so... ;)
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16:43<NTFS>i gave my computer the hogan legdrop because it has debian on it
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16:44<Phuein>mgoetze, lol what do you mean neither is anything else? I'm surprised the dev's didn't push harder specifically for KDE 4 in their priorities.
16:44<craigevil-eee>debians focus in stable not bleeding edge
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16:45<mgoetze>and gnome is the default desktop for debian, anyhow :)
16:45-!-magellanino [] has joined #debian
16:46<Phuein>kde 4 is not bleeding edge so much at the moment. It's been released a good time ago.
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16:46<lee>bleeding edge, is that waht it is called when my ati card won't I call that a artery bursting
16:46<Phuein>4 is "cutting edge" :P hehe
16:46*lee goes silient
16:47<mgoetze>Phuein: you may want to look into kubuntu. even though that is supported by a company ;)
16:47<dpkg>somebody said lenny was the codename for the next Debian release, currently testing. To upgrade to lenny, ask me about <etch->lenny>. Lenny is the binoculars. Lenny will be known as version 5.0 and it will hopefully be released soon (ask me about <wwlr>). A <moving target>. See also <testing> and <lenny status>.
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16:47<melkart>there are so many permanent beta state distros out there, it is good that at least debian cares about stability
16:48-!-jono [] has joined #debian
16:48<Phuein>mgoetze, O_O I said I was a Fedora user already. Anything related to Ubuntu for me is horrible... and yes, its already under a company.
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16:48<lee>yeah, to be honest it was driving me nuts oo upgrade to this or upgrade to that, heck they didnt even get the bugs worked out of the last one befor getting it running
16:48<EmleyMoor>When I attended Debian Day in Edinburgh (2007), I as amazed how many people there has laptops with some other distro on
16:48<lee>not to mention eh ubuntu killed the ps3
16:48<Phuein>*cant see himself going back to kde 3.5 or even gnome after kde 4* :S ohhh and so wanted to run on Deb'
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16:49<lee>eh I mean to say ubuntu pretty much made there os for it a pile of junk
16:49<mgoetze>Phuein: well, you can get kde4 on debian if you want it
16:49<mgoetze>Phuein: we're just not pretending it's production ready, that's all ;)
16:49<Phuein>What can you tell me about using Lenny with kde4 then?
16:49<Phuein>that's a better response goet :D
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16:50<craigevil-eee>Phuein: kde4.2 runs fine if you can handle running unstable and the occassional break that comes with it
16:50<craigevil-eee>if not there are backports for lenny of kde4.1
16:51<mgoetze>i personally can tell you nothing about it, since i don't use kde (or gnome, for that matter)
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16:54<melkart>having several DEs installed together in debian is a bit of a pain imho... with gnome+kde the gnome menu is hopelessly cluttered and konqueror is set as default browser for everyone.... i wonder if there are plans to fix this, to make different DEs coexist with each other more peacefully
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16:57<Myon>the cluttering is exactly that
16:57<mgoetze>i'm not aware of any such plans
16:57<mgoetze>nor a need for them, really
16:57<melkart>mgoetze: why dont you see a need for them?
16:58<mgoetze>melkart: i don't see why anyone needs even one DE installed, much less more than one...
16:58<Phuein>can I install Deb with KDE 4 from CD? I'm not that much of a noob, but I find myself having a bit of a time getting around yet :D
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16:58<melkart>mgoetze: ok, DEs are not necessary, but most people use them anyway
16:58<mgoetze>but most people only use one
16:58<melkart>after they tried out several ones...
16:58<mgoetze>Phuein: no, you'll have to install without KDE4 first and add it on later
16:59<melkart>and on a multiuser-system one person might prefer the one and another person might prefer another
17:00<mgoetze>well, it's not like you can't change the menu
17:00<Myon>i.e. install lenny from CD and then follow the instructions
17:00<Phuein>So I download the normal ISO CD KDE for Deb' from the site, and then update into KDE4.0 with those instructions?
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17:02<melkart>yesterday i had to explain to someone how to set iceweasel as default browser in debian after it was set automatically to konqueror
17:02<Phuein>(finally understands that deb 4 is etch, and 5 is lenny :D lol)
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17:03<chealer>Phuein: you probably don't want to use KDE 4.0
17:03<mgoetze>Phuein: and before that we had deb 3.1 which was sarge, and after lenny we'll have squeeze
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17:04<Phuein>mgoetze, thanks :D
17:04<Phuein>chealer, I already am using 4 with Fedora 9.
17:05<chealer>Phuein: well, maybe someone maintains KDE 4.0 for Fedora 9, but nobody does for Debian
17:06<craigevil-eee>chealer: there are kde4.1 backports for lenny and kde4.2 for sid just not in offical debian repos because of the freeze
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17:06<Phuein>If someone knowledgeable here were to compare KDE 4.x support for Debian versus Fedora, would you say that any is in a better state really?
17:07<chealer>craigevil-eee: yeah, but he seems to want KDE 4.0
17:07<Phuein>Isn't Lenny = sid? Being the current unstable release?
17:07<weasel>from what I hear kde4 is in a sorry state regardless of distribution
17:07<craigevil-eee>4.2 isnt too bad but 3.5.10 is still way better
17:07<Phuein>weasel, I'm using it o-o It's really nice. Not perfect, but really nice. Better than 3 imho.
17:08<chealer>I agree with weasel
17:08<chealer>Phuein: #debian-kde would be more knowledgeable about KDE
17:08<craigevil-eee>Phuein: lenny is testing, sid is always unstable, the next testing will be called squeeze
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17:09<elashish>does anyone know why i get this weird error message when i shutdown:
17:09<elashish>"stopping periodic command scheduler crond" failed
17:09<Phuein>craigevil-eee, lol I guess it'll take me time to get used to. Thanks again.
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17:09<craigevil-eee>because its not running?
17:09<elashish>should i make it run?
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17:12<mrvn>you should check your boot messages to see why it isn't running
17:13<elashish>where can i find that?
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17:15<chealer>elashish: bootlogd
17:16<elashish>tried it, there's nothing their and pgrep crond gives nothing
17:17<elashish>oh well, I'll keep it in mind, thanks
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17:23<chealer>!tell elashish about bootlogd
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17:25<Lethliel>Hey there. Does anyone know a good picture management tool? Like Picasa
17:26<elashish>thanks chealer
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17:28<marco_>Lethliel: I'm looking for a good one too
17:29-!-mode/#debian [+l 381] by debhelper
17:29<marco_>seen a lot trying to mimmick ACDSee, and none quite delivering it
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17:30<Lethliel>hmmmm.. that is bad
17:31<Lethliel>most programs won't handle the size of my comic collection...
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17:31<marco_>yeah. As soon as I can develop a good image viewer for my needs I'll do so. The problem being that the last time I've said that it was 3 years ago ;-)
17:31<Lethliel>hehe :)
17:31<marco_>there is a picasa version for linux
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17:32<marco_>it uses Wine and I'm not aware if it's any good ;-)
17:32<JordiGH>This is very strange...
17:32<JordiGH>I'm running afoul of this:
17:33<Lethliel>I tried it. and the autoscan stops when half the pictures are reached..
17:33<mrvn>As viewer qiv isn't bad.
17:33<_2>would someone advise me what needs changed in my /etc/apt/sources.list to upgrade from etch to lenny ?
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17:34<mgoetze>_2: have you seen the /topic?
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17:34<mrvn>_2: you wait for lenny to be released and then it is done. :)
17:34<Lethliel>qiv as viewer is good.. that's right, but i want a manager... where i can sort my pictures, resize them and just browse...
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17:35<_2>mgoetze anything in particular in the topic ?
17:35<mgoetze>_2: "/msg dpkg etch->lenny" perhaps?
17:35-!-gt [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:35<Lethliel>there is the answer to your question _2 ;)
17:35<_2>mgoetze ok
17:36<mgoetze>hm, i'm being much too nice. i should have said "yes, there is something particular in the topic"
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17:37<_2>ok so just sed s=etch=lenny=g /etc/apt/sources.list ?
17:37<wuseldusel>where is the original latex that generates dvis? /usr/bin/latex links to pdflatex ...
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17:38<Lethliel>hehe :) it seems that i have broken picasa for Linux \o/
17:38<mgoetze>_2: you didn't /msg the bot, did you?
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17:38<_2>yes i did
17:39<mgoetze>i don't see why you need to ask that question, then
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17:42<_2>you are absolutely right, this irc channel is not a support channel, and anyone looking for support should use something like #ubuntu !
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17:43<mgoetze>well, unlike some other channels, we only support people who can read :P
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17:45<Woet>Why does ps faux show a CPU usage of 3.3, while top shows a CPU usage of 50?
17:45<Woet>and which one is the reliable one?
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17:45<mrvn>Woet: 50 what? potatoes?
17:45<Woet>mrvn: I have no idea?
17:45<Woet>% of CPU
17:45<Woet>according to ps faux and top
17:46<Woet>they both say '%CPU'
17:46<mrvn>and you did check that at exactly the same time?
17:46<Woet>but top says 50, and ps faux says 3.3
17:46<Woet>I did
17:46<Woet>i got 2 putty 's side by side
17:46<barnes>Woet its an awreage cpu it think
17:46<mrvn>cummulative time in top?
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17:47<Woet>mrvn: hm?
17:47<Woet>top shows a stable 12% atm, and ps faux shows a stable 3.3
17:47<mrvn>Woet: top can include the time spend in short lived children or summarize threads that ps might not.
17:47<Woet>and it seems the one on 'top' is the true usage
17:47<Woet>well, I want the real CPU usage of the process
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17:49<barnes>Woet then you need the value from top
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17:51<Woet>barnes: and is it possible to let top return the CPU/RAM usage of a process?
17:51<marco_>For you SQL types, is there a database server software that logs all transactions to a file?
17:52<marco_>or at least lets you monitor what transactions are being made in real time?
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17:59<xlotlu>marco_: postgresql lets you log all statements, and probably so do other RDBMSs
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18:00<oipunx>what is the path that i need to add to .profile for java?
18:00<oipunx>im running debian 64bit
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18:01<marco_>xlotlu: Cool! Thanks for clearing that up :-)
18:02<oipunx>just reformatted and i forgot how i got java to work last time
18:02<oipunx>not just the plugin but the jdk
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18:03<barnes>Woet not sure or you need to find another command that gets the same value
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18:04<frank>oipunx: what package did you install?
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18:05<oipunx>sun-java6-jre, jdk, bin
18:06<oipunx>i tried to install the sun-java6-plugin but it says not available
18:07<abrotman>which architecture? which version of debian?
18:07<oipunx>for amd64, testing
18:07<the-me>oipunx, it is only available for i386
18:07<the-me>much thanks for the fish to Sun :-)
18:08<abrotman>uhm ...
18:08<oipunx>theres an experimental plugin for 64bit by sun
18:08<abrotman>oh the plugin
18:08<dpkg>i heard nspluginwrapper is a wrapper allowing you to use 32-bit browser plugins in a native x86_64 browser. It is known to work with <Adobe Flash> and a few others. Debian packages are in the <contrib> archive for lenny and later; ask me about <> for etch packages.
18:08<oipunx>im trying to get both plugin and jdk to work
18:09<abrotman>doesn't mean it's in lenny
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18:11<oipunx>hmm had jdk to work last time, just cant remember what i did
18:11<DeepDayze>looks like 64 bit stuff is coming along
18:11<craigevil>actually icedtea6-plugin is only in exp
18:11<abrotman>he can use icedtea if he wants to
18:12<DeepDayze>not much standing in the way of true 64 bit bliss
18:14<frank>oipunx: maybe using update-alternatives
18:16<oipunx>hold on trying something
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18:22<themill>judd versions icedtea-gcjwebplugin
18:22<judd>themill: icedtea-gcjwebplugin -- lenny: 1.0+dak1-1 sid: 1.0+dak1-1 experimental: 1.0+dak1-2~exp1
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18:23<Thornley>Hello, I'm trying to play an .avi video on mplayer (debian lenny), but the output is missed up; there's a thick vertical green line on the left side of the screen and the RGB is out of sync. Has anyone experienced anything like this?
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18:24<Phuein>Thornley, I'm not even a Deb user yet - but that problem sounds familiar from uses bad/mistmatched/old codecs
18:25<Thornley>Phuein, how would I tell if this was the case and how would I go about correcting it?
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18:28<mgoetze>Thornley: does it work with any other program than mplayer?
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18:28<oipunx>w00t i got it
18:28<oipunx>had to do update-java-alternatives -s java-6-sun
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18:28<Thornley>Yes mgoetze it works with other players such as totem, but vlc doesn't display any video, just audio. The problem exists still with I play the file with totem.
18:29<oscar_>how tto configure the microphone in laptop
18:29<the-me>Thornley, I bet you're using
18:29<oscar_>tne laptop has integrated microphone
18:29<the-me>Drop it and reinstall all the libav* and ffmpeg packages from the debian archive itself.
18:30<Thornley>the-me, yes that's correct.
18:30<Thornley>the-me, how do I "drop it"?
18:30<Phuein>On the dance floor :D
18:30<the-me>Thornley, first removing it from your sources.list, then you have to reinstall all packages which you get from debian-multimedia with the debian archive one
18:31<mrvn>Thornley: Pin debian to 1001 and upgrade
18:31<mrvn>No need to remove it but that doesn't hurt.
18:31<Thornley>mrvn, how do I pin debian to 1001, and what does that mean/do?
18:31<mrvn>In /etc/apt/preferences put something like:
18:31<mrvn>Package: *a
18:31<mrvn>Pin: release v=4.1,o=Debian,a=testing,l=Debian
18:31<mrvn>Pin-Priority: 1001
18:31-!-mrvn was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
18:32<craigevil>the debian-multimedia packages work just fine why remove them
18:33<the-me>Thornley, something like..: apt-get install --reinstall -t testing ffmpeg libavcodec51 libavdevice52 libavformat52 libavutil49 libpostproc51 libswscale0
18:34<the-me>Thornley, maybe also for vlc if it is from debian-multimedia, then start it with the --reset-plugins-cache option and it should work.
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18:38<mrvn>What to put after "Pin:" you can get from "apt-cache policy"
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19:12<igor_d>Hello, je suis le seul à avoir des problèmes de connexion avec ici ?
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19:12<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr sur French users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr on
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19:36<Carlos>donde estan las chavas
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19:37<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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19:41<goodger>ah, finally, dpkg works again
19:41<goodger>apparently my client was ignoring it for some reason, and was quite insistent upon continuing to ignore it
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19:48<goodger>hi luke
19:49<enouf>hi skywalker, this is dark helmet
19:50<goodger>ah, that was a wonderful film... and distressingly, rather better as a film in its own right (rather than as a spoof) than star wars itself
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19:53<enouf>so was young frankenstein :-)
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20:17<mogaal>Hi, one stupid question: wxWindows Licence is DFSG-compatible?
20:19<themill>it is
20:19<themill>(and wx is in debian)
20:20<mogaal>ahhh ok ok
20:20<mogaal>themill: thanks :D
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20:35<tronics>can anyone suggest a minimal irc client to use in Xebian?
20:36<Supaplex>Irssi 0.8.10 (20051211) -
20:36<tronics>I tried bitchx but ran into major dependancy issues
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20:36<tronics>will that be ok in Xebian?
20:36<Supaplex>if xebian is a basterization of debian, then you get what you deserve
20:36<Supaplex>!tell tronics -about based on debian
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20:36<tronics>it is for the xbox
20:37<Supaplex>it might. it might not.
20:37<mgoetze>irssi isn't exactly minimal, if you're into pain you want ircII
20:38<Supaplex>or the example scripts from netcat!
20:38<tronics>ya I think I need minimalist
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20:38<tronics>only like 64M ram
20:38<tronics>128M swap
20:38<tronics>1000M filesystem
20:38<tronics>so notmuch to work with
20:38<Supaplex>I run irssi on my openwrt router from time to time. 64mb filesystem and 64mb ram.
20:39<Supaplex>0 swap
20:39<tronics>ok I will give it a shot
20:39<tronics>thanks for the suggestions
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20:42<[vr]>I think an apt-get dist-upgrade borked my working optical audio for stereo out but not spdif. What's the fastest way to confirm this, like a log to check or something?
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21:17<enouf>[vr]: maybe /var/log/dpkg.log
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21:24<dpkg>it has been said that rc is Release-critical, or Release Candidate
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21:26<marco_>or, for some packages, it seems to mean "hey, it compiled! let's release it!" ;-)
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21:37<tronics>irssi worked just fine
21:37<tronics>thanks for the advice
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21:56<slick>wow 5 mins after install ing parsix, nvidia up and running meastro3 snd card up n running, flash, java and even wireless networking up and running via wpa_supplicant
21:56<goodger>erm--- good for you
21:57<slick>i never heard of it till this morning, i needed and os for my old dell inspiron, freebsd 7 just wasnt working, i downloaded and installed it just a few mins ago
21:57-!-brady [] has joined #debian
21:57<slick>its pretty cool
21:57<marco_>I know it is off topic but, does suspend to ram work?
21:58<goodger>slick: does this have anything to do with debian?
21:58<goodger>marco_: depends largely on hardware, afaik
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21:58<marco_>goodger: I get different results with etch and lenny, same hardware
21:58<goodger>ah. well, it also depends on the OS, of course
21:59<marco_>now we entered the subject, my lenny laptop hangs if I close the laptop lid while it's in the process of suspending to ram
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22:00<marco_>it suspends flawlessly if I wait until it finishes, but hangs at "Suspending console(s)" if I close the lid
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22:00<goodger>I'd check whether this is known behaviour and then file an RC bug, if I were you
22:01<marco_>any idea on what it might be causing it? Early insight from the IRC channel pointed at the /etc/acpi/ script, but nullifying it (putting "exit 0" on the top) didn't have an effect
22:01<marco_>goodger: THANK YOU SO MUCH
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22:03<goodger>I've no idea what's causing it, but I think it's quite important that this be fixed before release
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22:03<marco_>now that's the best answer I've ever got on this IRC channel. How should I proceed?
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22:05<marco_>mind you, I'm using the hibernate-ram script, and I'm not running any power management tools specific to KDE or GNOME, if that's any help
22:05<goodger>it should be irrelevant.
22:06<goodger>erm, install the reportbug package, run reportbug as a user, and follow its instructions (you will also require an email-sending program)
22:06<slick>parsix is a spin off of debian, ises the deb package man
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22:07<marco_>while I install it, can I dump its output to stdout and use my webmail account?
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22:10<goodger>marco_: if you can make it do so, yes... it's just easier to have it send it for you
22:10<marco_>oh, ok
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22:11<goodger>I don't recall whether having it dump its output is possible, though
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22:13<marco_>The package name to report should be "hibernate" right?
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22:14<goodger>er, not sure. you can use the apt-file program to find out what package a file belongs to (aptitude install apt-file, apt-file update, apt-file search ****)
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22:17<newsense>marco_, if the binary is installed you can run dpkg -S app
22:17<newsense>apt-file is only needed if the package which produces the binary is not installed
22:17*goodger notes this for future reference
22:18<marco_>hmmm... seems like "hibernate" is the right package to go
22:18<newsense>so if the binary which is creating the problem is "hibernate" maybe dpkg -S hibernate |grep bin
22:18<newsense>package name should precede the binary's location
22:19<goodger>possibly it is /etc/acpi/
22:20<marco_>hmmm... I've already tried nullifying this script ("exit 0" on top), but it still hangs if I close the lid while suspending...
22:20<goodger>ah, it's not there then
22:21<goodger>sorry, you said that before, I'm a bit distracted
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22:21<marco_>no problem, it's quite late :-)
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22:23<goodger>yes, it's twenty past three am here
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22:37<ike>i need something that can delete files from iso images anyone know of a way?
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22:39<ike>ok found something called iso master
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22:48<marco_>oh f... fiery hyenas
22:48<marco_>APT tools aren't reading the packages anymore
22:48<marco_>s/packages/package list
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22:49<marco_>"Problem parsing dependency Suggest"
22:49<marco_>"Problem with MergeList /var/lib/dpkg/status"
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22:51<marco_>how absolutely useless! it's refusing to work :-(
22:51<goodger>what is refusing to work?
22:52<marco_>aptitude, apt-cache, apt-get... the lot
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22:52<goodger>aptitude update?
22:52<marco_>tried. shows the errors above
22:52<marco_>"The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened"
22:53<marco_>and now reportbug is not detecting the version of "hibernate", and I don't know the version wither
22:54*marco_ bursts in an explosion of profanities
22:54<ike>try deleting the list
22:54<marco_>ike: /var/lib/dpkg/status?
22:54<ike>well dont delete it
22:55<ike>move it out of the way, and try updating
22:55<ike>i'm just guessing
22:55<ike>it might contain a list of everything installed for all i knwo
22:56<marco_>ah, it seems to be an FS error now
22:56<marco_>cp: reading `status-old': Input/output error
22:56<ike>fs or hd
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22:56<marco_>my fiddling with the laptop lid while hibernating must have caused some kind of corruption
22:56<goodger>marco_: boot an install disk and run a filesystem integrity check
22:57<marco_>now I know not to keep aptitude open when doing this things ;-)
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22:58<marco_>too tired to look for the install media, no cd or dvd blanks around, and my root partition is also encrypted
22:58<marco_>I guess it will have to wait until tomorrow
22:58<ike>use a usb stick
22:59<marco_>no USB sticks usable, I'm in a friend's house
22:59<ike>mmm make one :D
22:59<marco_>oh yes! I'll just dd the stick to my file corrupting encrypted disk! :-P
23:00<marco_>so then I have a backup!
23:00<goodger>I should arrange some redundancy for my data
23:00<goodger>I have 475G of it sitting here waiting to be erased by a disk error
23:02<marco_>ike, goodger: thanks so much for reading my angry rants. I'll surely come back tomorrow to get help settling this :-)
23:02<marco_>good night
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23:11<joshua_>how would i enumerate my network with nmap?
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23:31<joshua_>how would i enumerate my network with nmap?
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23:31<ike>whats enumerate?
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23:34<ike>uh.... 2 items, totalling 3.5 GB but 3.7gb is used
23:35<joshua_>i use a Motorolla Canopy to get my interent and it has a web interface but i don't know the ip of the device
23:35<joshua_>its not in the DHCP listings and I want to map the whole network
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23:36<goodger>ike: GiB != Gb != GB
23:37<goodger>GiB = 8*1024**3, Gb = 1*1000**3, GB = 8*1000**3
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23:37<goodger>I dare say you have a 3.5 GiB and 3.7 GB file
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23:38<goodger>the difference is small, but significant at large filesizes
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23:40<klndz05>Would anyone be interested in helping me set up madwifi?
23:41<kop>!tell klndz05 -about ask
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23:43<Solver>*sigh* wrong window
23:43*Solver uses alpine for mail :)
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23:46<ike>that might be goodger
23:46<klndz05>I'm having issues with setting up my wifi, when I run ifconfig, nothing shows up but lo
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23:46<ike>oh well, as long as i get to install yellowdog on the ps3 i dont care... was missing 100 megs earlier
23:47<ike>klando, ifconfig wlan0 up
23:47<goodger>klndz05: check that you have appropriate drivers installed
23:47<goodger>ike: tabfail
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23:48<goodger>dpkg, tell klndz05 about wifi
23:48<gsimmons>klndz05: Have you installed the madwifi drivers from non-free? Have you loaded ath_pci?
23:48<ike>very strange tho, i managed to write the image to the drive with dd , that worked, but the stinkin installer wanted the image for some reason ... even tho it booted
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23:48<enouf>it wanted an ISO
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23:49<ike>the image could have been cut in half too, there are ppc32 and 64 bit in there
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23:49<klndz05>goodger, I'm trying to set up the drivers
23:50<ike>ndiswrapper or native?
23:50<ike>and what card
23:50<klndz05>gsimmons, I'm not quite sure what you're referring to as "non-free"
23:50<ike>some require firmware
23:50<klndz05>D-Link DWL-G650
23:50<klndz05>I used it on ubuntu
23:50<klndz05>and it worked before with madwifi
23:50<gsimmons>!tell klndz05 -about non-free
23:50<ike>its detected i guess
23:50<gsimmons>!tell klndz05 -about madwifi-install
23:51<klndz05>thank you, I'll get back to you to see how I do with that
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23:54<klndz05>apt-get install madwifi-tools has the output of "E: Couldn't find package madwifi-tools"
23:55<klndz05>I'd pastebin the whole output, but I have no copy+paste since this is just the bash
23:55<gsimmons>klndz05: That package is in contrib. You'll need to amend your /etc/apt/sources.list file to reference contrib and non-free components, before they (and others) can be installed.
23:57<klndz05>how do I amend sources.list to reference contrib and non-free components?
23:57<ike>just add contrib
23:57<ike>and non-free
23:57<ike>behind main i believe?
23:58<gsimmons>kingsley: /msg dpkg non-free sources
23:58<gsimmons>klndz05: /msg dpkg non-free sources
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---Logclosed Mon Jan 05 00:00:48 2009