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#debian IRC Logs for 2009-01-08

---Logopened Thu Jan 08 00:00:22 2009
---Daychanged Thu Jan 08 2009
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00:01<alxd>ubuntu is overloaded
00:01-!-sisa [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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00:02<craigevil-eee>its also OT
00:02<fretless->what's that mean
00:03<fretless->your point?
00:03<craigevil-eee>babble about ubuntu elsewhere not here
00:03<fretless->didn't you just join the channel
00:03<alxd>ok lets talk about debian sid with tons of software preloaded
00:04<fretless->alxd and I were having a discussion
00:04<alxd>the u word lol
00:04<fretless->alxd: yeah but isn't there a custom install?
00:05<fretless->seems foolish to just pull a M$ trick like that
00:05<fretless->'default' installation of bloat
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00:08<alxd>tried minimal still too much
00:08<fretless->too much what
00:09<alxd>stuff i dont need
00:10<simonrvn>if you have nothing good to say, stfu
00:10<alxd>debian has the right footprint for me
00:10<fretless->debian always had the right footprint for me too
00:10<fretless->only what I wanted
00:13<fretless->I see some things never change however
00:14<alxd>sun still shines
00:14<fretless->people are still rude on IRC
00:15<gravity>People get sick of Ubuntu users asking for help with Ubuntu problems.
00:15<gravity>So there's a bit of a reflex built up, which sucks.
00:15<fretless->who's asking for help with an Ubuntu problem
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00:15<gravity>fretless-: It happens a lot.
00:15<fretless->yeah I'm sure it does
00:15<fretless->but did it happen with me?
00:15<fretless->I'm not even running Ubuntu
00:15<gravity>fretless-: I'm not saying it did.
00:16<fretless->so you're just making excuses for unwarranted rudeness is what you're saying
00:16<gravity>I'm not making any excuses. And now you're being rude to me.
00:16<fretless->I am?
00:16<gravity>You're accusing me of malice.
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00:16<gravity>See how easy it is to get offended on IRC?
00:17<craigevil-eee>discussing ubuntu in #debian is ot plain and simple i wasnt being rude
00:17<fretless->I didn't accuse you of anything
00:17<gravity>So please calm down.
00:17<fretless->and I don't need to calm down
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00:17<gravity>"< fretless-> so you're just making excuses for unwarranted rudeness"
00:17<gravity>That's an accusation.
00:17<fretless->you left off the "is what you're saying"
00:17<gravity>Which is totally irrelevant
00:17<fretless->which, sans proper punctuation, is a question
00:17<fretless->completely relevant
00:18<gravity>I'm not going to continue this meta-argument.
00:18<fretless->as long as you realize you're wrong
00:18<fretless->I don't care if you back out now
00:18<gravity>Wow. You're a dick.
00:18<fretless->now who's being rude...
00:18<avu>A troll more like.
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01:20<Dracie>hi i can't seem to find the page to download unstable off of
01:20<Dracie>maybe i missed something
01:21<jm_>no you didn't
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01:27<Dracie>jm_, where do i go to dl a sid iso
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01:30<jm_>Dracie: nowhere, time to read sid faq
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01:31<Dracie>oh thanks jm_ i was no aware of that
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01:32<jm_>!sid faq
01:32<dpkg> or (mirror), it doesn't hurt if you read the FAQ, even if you are using testing/lenny...
01:32<Dracie>yeah i found it
01:33<Dracie>ima isntall it on my jumpdrive for portable linux
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01:37<jm_>you can use debian live for that
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01:44<Dracie>debian live?
01:45<jm_>!debian live
01:45<dpkg>debian-live is probably live-helper. make-live is a utility to build Debian Live systems. It takes a Debian mirror as an input and outputs a live system image (ISO image for CDs and DVDs, or tarball for netboot). make-live is gaining significant functionality and stability as development continutes. Homepage: , or irc://
01:46<Dracie>i don't think iwould have much of an advantage with running live
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02:01<twb>I realize Lenny hasn't been released yet, but is there a draft upgrade procedure?
02:01<twb>(Obviously dist-upgrading, but usually there are a few gotchas to know about.)
02:01<gsimmons>!tell twb -about lenny release notes
02:01<twb>gsimmons: thanks
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02:11<twb>Hahaha: • Upgrading over ssh when the connection is managed by NetworkManager can lead the upgrade failing/hanging when the NetworkManager service is restarted. If you are lucky, the ssh connection will not drop out; if you are unlucky, the ssh connection will drop out and at the next interactive point in the upgrade (e.g. dpkg "replace this file" or debconf) the entire upgrade is left in a horrible state.
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02:11<twb>Ubuntu has had that problem for like four release
02:11<twb>Stupid NM ought to be cut into little pieces and fed to the pigeons.
02:13<newsense>yeah vim manages my network, thank you very much
02:13<jm_>for me it's ifupdown that does it ;)
02:14<newsense>well yeah but i mean for configuring
02:14<newsense>vim /etc/network/interfaces /etc/dhcp........
02:16<twb>I also noticed that if NM is installed (as is the default on stupid Ubuntu), and you make the machine a NIS client, then boot goes from one minute to twenty minutes.
02:16<newsense>i trust no gui app to my systems configuration,
02:16<twb>newsense: NM isn't actually a GUI app, it's a daemon that randomly changes your network configuration. You can only give it orders via a GUI.
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02:17<twb>When I asked the NM maintainers "WTF is up with that?" they said "if you don't like GUIs, you can write DBUS XML messages by hand and inject them directly into NM's DBUS socket"
02:17<newsense>i prefer wpasupplicant never tried NM and never plan too, just my preference
02:17<twb>newsense: hear, hear.
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02:17<jm_>wonderfulk world of XML
02:18<twb>jm_: at least it's not a binary wire protocol like xmms2 uses...
02:18<twb>Which is so complicated that you need to call out to a C library to use it
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02:21<jm_>I think it took me some 5 hours to create a playlist in xmms2, and then something else annoyed me after several weeks to remove the thing
02:22<newsense>im trying to like amarok but the options dont work well
02:23<twb>jm_: it's nice how xmms2 refuses to work at all if /home is NFS, until you put "yes, please randomly corrupt my playlist, mr. sqlite3" in its XML config file
02:24<twb>FSVO "nice"
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02:27<jm_>but even audacious is not much better, it keeps using 2% of CPU for me when paused or playing, and that's on a CPU running at 1-2GHz, efficient coding I must say
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02:29<twb>I just use mplayer
02:29<twb>Fuck that shit
02:29<twb>mplayer $(random-choose /srv/music/*/*)
02:30<twb>Although actually I mainly just listen to radio streams now; I have a little script which chooses *them* at random from a list.
02:32*twb grumbles about x11-common being pulled in by the "standard" task
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02:36<twb>WTF, even xterm got pull in by full-upgrade
02:36<jm_>recommends perhaps?
02:36<twb>Stupid recommends
02:37<jm_>aptitude why should show why it is installed
02:37<twb>haha, by tk8.4
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02:37<twb>Eventually, it was pulled in by selinux
02:38<twb>setools -> bwidget -> tk8.4 -> xterm
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02:38<twb>I don't know why selinux stuff is even in the default install list -- it's off by default in Debian kernels
02:39*twb runs magic to add missing markauto dependencies on the new install:
02:39<twb>aptitude --schedule-only markauto ~E '~i!~M(~Rdepends:~i|~Rrecommends:~i)' && aptitude --schedule-only keep ~aremove && aptitude install
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02:41<twb>Ah, an openssh-server pulled in xauth via Recommends.
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02:44<petern>Recommends strikes again
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02:46<twb>Really the problem is that I forgot to uncheck the "standard" tasks
02:47<twb>I forgot how much random shit that pulls in
02:47<twb>like, I have traceroute AND mtr, and texinfo and gettext-base
02:47<twb>And an unconfigured exim4 and gcc
02:47<Supaplex>just install wannabe-redhat task, and have it all! ;)
02:48<twb>Supaplex: that would be "Desktop"
02:51<twb>localepurge: Disk space freed in /usr/share/locale: 35976K
02:51<twb>The whole system is only 470MB wide
02:51<twb>That's like 5% of the system
02:51<Supaplex>:D nice!
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02:52<twb>Working with VMs is fun, as long as I have my qemu -curses
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02:52<Supaplex>fro sure
02:52<twb>I don't know why people put up with VNC, let alone vmware server console
02:53<Supaplex>or vmware.*
02:53<twb>Fucking raster crap
02:53<Supaplex>!butcher vmware
02:53<twb>Also, 100% userland networking between VMs is The Bomb
02:53<Supaplex>oh wait. I haz xen :)
02:53<Supaplex>and vserver, and qemu with -curses patch. so many lovely ways to skin the cat.
02:54<twb>I wanted to play with kvm, but this server is already running vmware for doing tax stuff :-(
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04:38<sheldonh>can i use $< in the dependency list of an implicit rule in make?
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04:39<themill>implicit rules can't have dependencies at all
04:40<sheldonh>really? maybe i'm using the term incorrectly
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04:41<themill>the source file is implicitly a dependency, but that's all. You're talking about a .c.o line or similar?
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04:42<sheldonh>well sorta. i've dug myself into a hole in a makefile for building a firewall policy, and it would be awesome if i could do: blacklist.d/*: $(<:blacklist.d/%=../blacklists/%) :)
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04:43<sheldonh>themill: i guess my question is really "how can i say that you need to build a bunch of files in THIS directory, each one generated from a file with the same name in THAT directory, when the list of files is determined at runtime?"
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04:45<eeeuser>I have a problem with using gdmflexiserver on a remote machine via ssh -CY user@remotehost, but only from my lenny laptop - It says that "The X server failed. Perhaps it is not configured well". Other machines have no problems
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04:46<sheldonh>themill: perhaps i should use pmake. i'm sure it allowed for loops for creating rules :)
04:47<themill>sheldonh: sources:= $(wildcard blacklist.d/*) \n objects:=$( \n %.out: \n... \n all: $(objects)
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04:48<themill>sheldonh: or something like that.... probably needs some extra blacklist.d/ in there... my Makefile-fu is a little rusty esp when it comes to traversing directories.
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04:54<sheldonh>themill: thanks, i'll see if wildcarding is my way out
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04:58<sheldonh>aw, that bites a bit
04:59<sheldonh>with bsd make (pamke), you could do make -VFOO and it would print the value of FOO without evaluating any targets
05:00<sheldonh>themill: ah, i see the problem now. i'm not using filename extensions, that's what 's making it hard
05:00<sheldonh>BLACKLISTS:=$(wildcard /etc/blacklists/*)
05:01<themill>ah yes. extensions make makefiles much easier to handle
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05:01<sheldonh>meh. oh well, time for a little DRH :)
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05:03<AbsintheSyringe>after latest safe-upgrade I've noticed my pidgin-musictracker isn't working, now I notice this same musictracker is in unstable, however I do have both testing and unstable in my "pinning"
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05:09<sheldonh>themill: you know, this is retarded. i should just send an upstream ferm patch for a blacklist feature :)
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05:15<AbsintheSyringe>yep it's a bug, on xmpp it works fine, but on msn it doesnt, but for some reason that doesn't suprise me :)
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05:23<sheldonh>themill: dunno what you did, but you clicked it into place in my head:
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05:25<themill>sheldonh: excellent! I'll take all the credit shall I? :P
05:27<sheldonh>themill: please do :)
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05:29<DTE>hi all
05:29<DTE>i'm having some trouble trying to install hp iLO utility on debian stable
05:29<DTE>anyone had experience with that?
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05:35<petern>hmm, i never bothered. what does it allow you to do?
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05:37<DTE>ilo? to connect with the server even if it's unusable
05:37<wxl-hc>who can tell me the best download tools which can be used in china ?i used to use thunder in xp,but there is no thunder of ubuntu
05:38<jm_>DTE: isn't it a matter of simple telnet
05:38<DTE>jm_: i can ssh or http into it
05:38<DTE>but i cannot install the hp tools on debian
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05:39<petern>DTE, i know what ilo is, but i meant the ilo utility you refer to
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05:40<jm_>DTE: why not?
05:40<themill>wxl-hc: try asking in #ubuntu on
05:41<DTE>petern: hprsm
05:41<DTE>jm_: because now it's not activated and i wanted to enable it without restart the server
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05:43<DTE>it alway tell me "Failed to rebuild for custom kernel"
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05:45<WAB_Poland>j #habari
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05:46<jm_>DTE: so find out why the build fails
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05:47<daft>I have troubles getting/creating a deb file for php-oci8
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05:48<DTE>jm_: eheh...the problem is how :-)
05:48<DTE>which script is executed when packages are extracted?
05:48<daft>its non-free and souch its no in the php debian packages. But i find my self haveing problems make the oracle php deb package with out installen a oracle server :/
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05:54<jm_>DTE: postinst
05:54<DTE>ah thanks
05:55<jm_>if it's not fully configured, edit postinst and run dpkg --pending --configure and it'll re-run it
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06:00<DTE>uhm...the problem seem that there's a *.o module instead *.ko
06:00<jm_>are you sure this is compatible with 2.6 kernel?
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06:00<jm_>or perhaps that's just binary object linked into final .ko
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06:02<ike>DTE, means its not compiled
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06:03<DTE>as far as i understand....the o module is shipped with the package...then if it find not compatible, try to build one but fails
06:05<jm_>right, so you need to examine that part
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06:06<DTE>uhm...a bash script con be made verbose with -x right?
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06:12<jm_>DTE: yes
06:15<DTE> seems that the module is not compatible with my kernel
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06:16<marcot>What software can I use to generate a debian repository out of some .deb packages?
06:16<petemc>!own repo
06:16<dpkg>Custom-Package-Repository-HOWTO: [1, as root] apt-get install dpkg-dev; [2, as user] mkdir -p ~/public_html/foo; cd ~/public_html/foo; [3] cp /your/packages.deb .; [4] dpkg-scanpackages . /dev/null | gzip > Packages.gz; [5, as root] echo >> /etc/apt/sources.list "deb http://localhost/~username/foo ./"; [OR, if no local web server set up] echo >> /etc/apt/sources.list "deb file:///home/username/public_html/foo ./";, or see <reprepro>
06:16<marcot>petemc: thanks.
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06:27<stephen>Hi guys..
06:27<stephen>Im joining a debian box to another debianbox using openvpn.. my question is.. I have generated a ca.crt cert ont he server. can I use the same cert for the client..
06:27<stephen>Does anyone see any security implications with that?
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06:29<simonrvn>the client will need the *public* ca cert anyway
06:29<simonrvn>the private key you keep as safe as possible
06:30<petern>you should use different keys reallyu
06:30<simonrvn>under lock and key
06:30<simonrvn>regular certs, should be yes
06:31<simonrvn>the ca cert you used to generate the regular certs should be different
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07:26<Wesley> Hello. can someone enlighten me what this means "Inconsistency detected by dynamic-link.h: 118: elf_get_dynamic_info: Assertion `info[20]->d_un.d_val == 17 || info[20]->d_un.d_val == 7' failed!" ?
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07:34<And1>What's the prefered way to install wine? Install it from its own repo? Or from the debian-repo?
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07:40<themill>judd versions wine
07:40<judd>themill: wine -- etch: 0.9.25-2.1 etch-backports: 1.0-rc1-1~bpo40+1 lenny: 1.0.1-1 sid: 1.0.1-1 experimental: 1.1.10-1
07:40<themill>And1: /msg dpkg
07:40<And1>themill: Using Lenny here.
07:41<simonrvn>exp. has 1.10 ? eh
07:42<themill>And1: in which case, just use the debian package directly unless you have a very specific problem you can point to in the version that it's in debian and you know it's fixed in the winehq debs. Then you can try them out... they may or may not work for you.
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07:43<And1>I installed wine in my sid-chroot now. Thanks themill, simonrvn. :)
07:44<Wesley>is there any way to view the recent installed/changed packages?
07:44<jm_>Wesley: yes
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07:44<simonrvn>last time i checked, the debian ones were more up to date
07:44<Wesley>jm_: any hint I can google on? ;)
07:45<jm_>Wesley: no need to google at all, check dpkg.log and aptitude.log if you're using aptitude
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07:45<simonrvn>it's just aptitude no .log
07:45<Wesley>I don't ue aptitude
07:45<Wesley>jm_: what if it's empty?
07:46<jm_>Wesley: dpkg.log? check rotate files
07:46-!-gsamsa_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:46<Wesley>No rotated files. strange
07:46<Wesley>I'm running into some ""Inconsistency detected by dynamic-link.h: 118: elf_get_dynamic_info: Assertion `info[20]->d_un.d_val == 17 || info[20]->d_un.d_val == 7' failed!" "
07:46<Wesley>it seem to have borked my mailserver
07:47<jm_>which version of dpkg do you have installed?
07:47<Wesley>Debian `dpkg' package management program version 1.13.25 (i386).
07:47<Wesley>I can't remember installing/updating any packages.. thats why I wanted to view the log
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07:48<Wesley>Ah wait, there is indeed a rotated version
07:49<Wesley>only recent install is libcurses-perl
07:50<jm_>doesn't it mention the file that is supposedly bad?
07:50<Wesley>what do you mean?
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07:53<jm_>well obviously complains about some ELF info in something, doesn't it mention what this something is?
07:53<Wesley>all I get when running 'mailq' is Inconsistency detected by dynamic-link.h: 118: elf_get_dynamic_info: Assertion `info[20]->d_un.d_val == 17 || info[20]->d_un.d_val == 7' failed!
07:54<Wesley>not any other errors or things to look at
07:54<jm_>try LD_DEBUG=all mailq
07:54<Wesley>doing strace mailq doesn't show much joy either
07:54<Wesley>that shows exactly the same jm_
07:55<EmleyMoor>What size should I make my /boot partition on a typical i386 laptop?
07:55<jm_>Wesley: hmm, so perhaps it's that's corrupted?
07:55<jm_>Wesley: can you run anything else?
07:56<Wesley>mm doesn't seem so jm_
07:56<simonrvn>EmleyMoor: 50-100 MiB is plenty
07:56<jm_>Wesley: right, so that's where I'd look
07:56<Wesley>running 'sendmail' returns the same
07:56<EmleyMoor>50 would do? OK
07:57<EmleyMoor>(I am having the disk replaced to fix a broken WinXP (spit!)
07:57<jm_>Wesley: how about if you run /lib/ or /lib/
07:57<Wesley>let's try
07:57<EmleyMoor>I am going LVM on it (but /boot has to be alone of course)
07:57<jm_>my boot is 35M after > 8 years, with many old kernels installed, but I don't use Debian kernels
07:57<Wesley> well ../lib/ No such file or directory
07:58<Wesley>but /lib/ does work
07:58<jm_>is this i386 release?
07:58<EmleyMoor>I use 100 on my main desktop which is amd64 - but this old thing is i386
07:58<Wesley>Linux s01 2.6.18-5-686 #1 SMP Wed Oct 3 00:12:50 UTC 2007 i686 GNU/Linux
07:58<Wesley>debian etch
07:59<jm_>Wesley: maybe run /lib/*
07:59<Wesley>theres a
07:59<jm_>does md5sum report the same error?
08:00<Wesley>md5sum seems to run (just sits there, hangs?)
08:00<Wesley>ah should put something behind it ofcourse
08:00<themill>on etch, md5sum /lib/ => fae0f2490acb4a30f8d3f3a722e69c48
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08:00<simonrvn>l /lib/*ld*.so
08:00<simonrvn>-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 104K 2008-11-04 00:29 /lib/
08:00<simonrvn>ppc etch
08:00<Wesley>well works too
08:00<Wesley>shall I do a --verify?
08:01<themill>(that's etch i386)
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08:01<jm_>verify its md5sum for now
08:01<themill>Perhaps this is a job for debsums.
08:01<simonrvn>debsums to the rescue!
08:01<jm_>in situations like this busybox-static is a gem
08:01<Wesley>fae0f2490acb4a30f8d3f3a722e69c48 /lib/
08:01<jm_>so it looks fine
08:01<evertt_zufelt>Good morning, where do I request that gnome-orca be included as part of the standard installer graphical desktop install option?
08:02<themill>Wesley: btw that kernel is old... you've got some updating to do at some time RSN
08:02<Wesley>I was planning to do those next week, am at location then
08:02<jm_>so is ok, why doesn't LD_DEBUG print anything then
08:03<Wesley>want me to copy/paste it inside a pastebin?
08:03<Wesley>(here it is:
08:03<Wesley>also an strace of it
08:04<simonrvn>is there a #debian-installer here?
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08:04<themill>simonrvn: yes, also #debian-boot
08:04<simonrvn>just checked with chanserv
08:05<jm_>maybe check if kernel reported anything odd lately then
08:05<simonrvn>evertt_zufelt: check with them, #debian-installer
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08:06<Wesley>Done that, only thing I saw is "end_request: I/O error, dev hdc, sector 4" "hdc: tray open"
08:06<jm_>so hdc is probably cd-rom
08:07<Wesley>is there any change a reboot would resolve anything?
08:07<themill>feel like checking things out with debsums?
08:07<jm_>hmm hard to say, i can't quite imagine where the problem is - better check md5sum-s for mailq et al
08:08<Wesley>id do anything to find the cause/resolve it :)
08:08<jm_>using debsums will be the easiest
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08:08<Wesley>I have to say I don't know much about debsums
08:08<jm_>apt-cache show debsums
08:09<Wesley>do i need single user mode for this?
08:10<Wesley>never mind
08:10<jm_>well if you don't suspect any forgery then not
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08:11<themill>Wesley: if it's an option to boot the machine off a livecd to do this, then that might be a good plan
08:11<jm_>also verify if you're executing the right mailq/sendmail binaries
08:11<Wesley>well.. it's a colo server
08:12<Wesley>so that's not an option right now :(
08:12<tuxcrafter>hi all is it possible to build a bridge between eth0 and a ppp0 interface with brctl or does it only work with ethernet devices
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08:12<simonrvn>i think only eth devices work with bridging, but i'm not sure.
08:13<Wesley>hmm 'debsums postfix' returns /usr/sbin/sendmail FAILED
08:13<jm_>right that would explain it
08:14<Wesley>what can I tell from that?
08:14<cmot>Yodel! Did anything go into lenny recently (last week or so) that would affect powermanagement on notebooks?
08:14<jm_>you can tell that something happened to sendmail binary
08:14<themill>Wesley: either you've got a hard drive that's eating files on your (bad) or you've had a visitor who has left a calling card (bad).
08:14<jm_>well the former would be shown in kernel logs
08:14<themill>Wesley: There's not really a good way of interpreting that result, other than "at least I know what's causing the symptoms" now.
08:15<cmot>My (Dell) notebook suddenly starts to go down to 800MHz (lowest possible) and fans go to full power suddenly. (As soon as some cpu load starts to really heat the thing.)
08:15<jm_>does it show anything about disks now that debsums has been run?
08:15<Wesley>let' see
08:16<Wesley>I see no kernel errors, or anything else strange in syslog
08:16<jm_>how about dmesg output?
08:16<Wesley>i'm pretty sure noone has gained access to the system (but how sure can one be?)
08:16<Wesley>dmesg shows nothing. just some TCP: Treason uncloaked! Peer repairs
08:17<jm_>well then it might be 0wnage or hardware issues
08:17<Wesley>(i started noticing problems in syslog with "TROUBLE in child_init_hook: BDB no dbS: Unknown locker")
08:17<Wesley>but I'm not sure if this is related, doubtfull
08:18<Wesley>the server is pretty suecure, running no scripts behind apache
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08:18<Wesley>so hardware could be a direction to look at?
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08:24<And1>In older versions of gimp, when I marked and copied something and wanted the open a new file then, gimp took the proportions (height and width) from the copied file... any ideas, why this doesn't work anymore on lenny?
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08:35<themill>And1: there's an "acquire -> paste as new" menu item. (Ctrl+Shift+V, here)
08:35<And1>themill: Great, thanks again!
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08:39<Wesley>I might know the problem
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08:45<themill>Wesley: do tell...
08:46<Wesley>Hmm no I thought I had something. but.. fail
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08:58<Wesley>themill, jm_; would replacing sendmail with a new/good version not resolve it?
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08:59<themill>Wesley: it would hopefully cure the symptoms. Whether it's a permanent cure or not depends on the cause.
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09:00<Wesley>mm allright
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09:12<Wesley>oh ps; thanks for the help and time themill and jm_ :)
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09:13<themill>no worries. Let us know what you work out with it. (BTW you might want to run debsums over everything)
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09:18<johnfg>hi folks
09:19<johnfg>Do I need to write my own init script for mysql to be started as a service? Coming from Fedora 10, and running Debian Lenny.
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09:21<johnfg>I just read the README in /etc/init.d.
09:21<johnfg>jm, OK, what do I do?
09:21<jm_>johnfg: in normal cases you don't need to do anything
09:23<nosklo>johnfg, it is already started as a service
09:23<nosklo>johnfg, the default package configuration does that
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09:43<phrhd>hi, how can i show the size of a directory in bash?
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09:44<avu>phrhd, you mean the size of all files therein, including subdirectories?
09:44<avu>phrhd, if so, 'du -sh /dir'
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09:48<phrhd>ok thx, i did ls -si -h
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10:22<perlsyntax>Has anyone made a live deian with the frontend call live-magic?
10:22<ninglee>anybody in?
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10:23<perlsyntax>any ideas?
10:23<Cribozai>a silent no i guess
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10:28<nosklo>ninglee, hello.
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10:38<perlsyntax>c for make a debain live cd i mean
10:38<perlsyntax>someone got to know
10:38<perlsyntax>any one
10:38<perlsyntax> it come with unbuntu and debain
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10:41<stevem_>Say if I wanted to make a GUI app using an IDE, and I save my project files to disk. Is there an IDE out there like this that is both Linux and Windows, so I can use the two different editions to save two different versions of the program from the same project files/source code? (I'm thinking C and GTK+)
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10:45<stevem_>I'm after an IDE for both Windows & Linux where I can make a C/GTK+ app, save the "project files" and compile both Windows & Linux versions of the program from the same "project files"/source code... does such a thing exist?
10:45<stevem_>ignore my first way of putting that question :D
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10:48<themill>stevem_: C# and gtk -- try monodevelop.
10:48<stevem_>no not C'
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10:51<nosklo>stevem_, emacs
10:52<themill>there's probably a way of coaxing eclipse to do it actually, but I've never touched it
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10:55<johnfg>Got everything going with mysql and all my databases restored.
10:56<johnfg>Now, what's the syntax for restarting a service? In F10, it's service <whatever> start,stop, restart
10:58<stew>johnfg: /etc/init.d/whatever stop,start,restart
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10:58<themill>johnfg: or "invoke-rc.d whatever restart" tab completion can help too ;)
10:58<johnfg>Thanks Stew ant themill !
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11:00<mibber>I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but is it normal for my computer to be connected to another ip using 7 different ports? I'm filesharing but isn't that a bit too much?
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11:02<blockowitsch>is there any tool in debian to compare two versions?
11:02<stew>blockowitsch: dpkg --compare-versions
11:02<ranix>mibber: perhaps you should do a little wikipedia-ing on how filesharing works
11:03<mibber>Ah, no. I meant 7 ports all connected to a single ip.
11:03<mibber>All outgoing connections.
11:03<blockowitsch>stew: thanks, but is it possible without dpkg?
11:03<ranix>mibber: are you downloading a file? Using what
11:04<mibber>@ranix: I'm downloading a file, yes. I'm using transmission.
11:04<mibber>@ranix: I saw the ports using firestarter
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11:04<mibber>@ranix: I checked the ports at GRC and some are asssigned to some services.
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11:05<mibber>3403 4827 3207 4885 4943 4697 1741
11:05<ranix>mibber: transmission is probably making multiple connections to attempt to (a) download different segments of the same file and/or (b) overcome bandwidth limitations by QOS or something of the server
11:05<And1>How do I get RGB colors in decimals?
11:05<johnfg>In restoring mysql, I did away with the user/password for 'debian-sys-maint'@'localhost'
11:05<themill>And1: what do you mean?
11:05<johnfg>Anyone know what the password for that user is?
11:06<johnfg>I guess that user must be in the init script.
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11:06<And1>themill: Something like: "ProgressBarColor=215,7,81" (the format is: "red,green,blue RGB colors as decimals, not hex")
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11:08<mibber>@ranix: Hmm. I guess so. But that peer I'm connecting too also has been at 99% since half a day ago and won't let me upload anything to him. I don't know. Maybe I'm just paranoid. Anyway thanks.
11:08<themill>And1: ahh. Are you asking how to do it on a calculator, in a shell script, in php, ...?
11:09<mibber>It's just that it would really suck if my box has already been infected orsomething.
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11:10<And1>themill: The easiest method... I want #0077cc in decimals.
11:10<themill>And1: If you're talking shell script, then something like: printf "ProgressBarColor=%d,%d,%d\n" 0xFF 0x80 0x000 will work. printf exists in most languages too.
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11:11<jthomas>If I install from Experimental a package (or many, the KDE4), and then remove experimental from my sources.list, it shouldn't ever be downgraded (say for dependencies), correct? I want some KDE4 for an install but I don't want to pin this user to experimental for forever with these packages.
11:11<themill>And1: if it's a one off, tools like kcolorchooser can do it for you. Or the gimp.
11:12<seanius>johnfg: that user is defined in /etc/myql/debian.cnf
11:12<themill>And1: or your calculator...
11:12<wizard>hello there
11:12<seanius>johnfg: and the password is semi-random
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11:12<And1>themill: printf also did it, thanks. - Though, do you know how to do it in gimp?
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11:13<themill>And1: click on the foreground colour patch which brings up the "Change foreground colour" dialogue. Type in the html notation and read off the rgb.
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11:15<themill>And1: in the shell, RGB="#0077cc"; printf "ProgressBarColor=%d,%d,%d\n" 0x${RGB:1:2} 0x${RGB:3:2} 0x${RGB:5:2}
11:15*themill is clearly bored atm...
11:16<johnfg>seanius, Thanks! Got it done! Just changed the user. Do you think that the password in the debian.cnf was just cut and pasted from the original mysql tables?
11:16<And1>themill: Okay, thanks very much. :)
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11:20<perlsyntax>Where can i get a debain live cd?
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11:21<gsimmons>!tell perlsyntax -about live
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11:21<nosklo>!tell perlsyntax about live
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11:21<perlsyntax>i looking for a live cd
11:22<blockowitsch>perlsyntax: i don't know about a native debian live system, but you can try ubuntu
11:22<nosklo>perlsyntax, look at what dpkg told you
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11:22<perlsyntax>here what i found
11:23<jthomas>perlsyntax the first result from a google search shows this
11:23<perlsyntax>that what i was talking about before
11:23<jthomas>yeah perlsyntax then on the left of your linked page, you'd click 'download'
11:23<perlsyntax>so that a debain live cd cool
11:23<jthomas>then, likely, lenny-builds; then pick one (I'd say, KDE :) )
11:24<craigevil-eee>lxde would be faster
11:24<jthomas>here is the direct link to the list
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11:56<jthomas>hello panthera
11:56<jthomas>sorry meant for pankov
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11:58<fxiny>jthomas: did you fix your uft-8 problem ?
11:58<jthomas>no, actually. I think we were looking at it wrong.
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11:59<jthomas>The system defaults to UTF8 and so does my system. My pasted shell-script is UTF8. But, the system cannot run that script due to strange characters in it, which are a result of the system seeing it as ISO8859-x
12:00<jthomas>so its either a Vim pasting issue, or the system isn't really UTF8. And unfortunately I cannot reboot it to see if that changes anything (but I did dpkg-reconfig locale)
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12:01<fxiny>jthomas: so this happens when you cp and paste from kde (kate?) to vim in the same box when you are logged via ssh ?
12:02<fxiny>jthomas: or from a remote kde box to your local vim box ?
12:02<jthomas>yes; I have Konsole open and its encodings are default (UTF8). My KDE (Kate) is copied, and then pasted to the remote-via-ssh Vim session.
12:04<fxiny>i'm gonna try later , i have a kde box with ISO-8859-15 locales to this , same iso
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12:04<fxiny>in 5
12:06<adrian>why does the network manager suck now?
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12:06<jthomas>but, none of my systems _are_ ISO-8859-xx
12:07<fxiny>that's why i do the test :)
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12:07<jthomas>:) ok then
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12:07<jthomas>let me know, I'll be here a few more hours
12:07<everettz>Should I be able to install sid using debootstrap from the Lenny repo?
12:08<jthomas>everettz you'd change your repo in /etc/apt/sources.list from 'lenny' or 'testing' to 'sid' then you'd update and dist-upgrade
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12:09<everettz>jthomas: I'm not trying to upgrade my current install. I am trying to do a fresh install of Sid onto an sd card using debootstrap.
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12:09<jthomas>ah... then I don't know. I would boot from a netinstall of Lenny (or sid if there is one), install it; and dist-upgrade from there. But your method may work, not sure.
12:10<jthomas>netinstall = small ISO for a CD
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12:10<craigevil-eee>just use sid repo rather than lenny,never did a debotstrap but i know the business iso using expert will let you install sid directly
12:10<fxiny>jthomas: no porbs here : file > Bourne shell script text executable
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12:11<jthomas>:( fxiny i'm not sure then. I wonder if I need to do something special to that Vim ?
12:12<jthomas>I should try this from my local system to my local system.
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12:12<fxiny>jthomas: see if i got it right : i've opened a script with kate . i shh to this box m run vim and paste on a ,m is that ok ?
12:12<jthomas>sounds right, yeah
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12:13<fxiny>jthomas: so : no funny chars no damned utf-8 no porbs , both locales are en_US.ISO-8859-15
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12:13<jthomas>hmmm ok i got pulled away, I'll try my local-to-local in a moment
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12:19<base>hi all ... one question on MSN via Kopete ... can I send message to an address which haven't accepted to start talk with me (cause I've added an address of a friend of mine and I want him to know that I am the address is calling him)
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12:35<simonrvn>base: um, email him?
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12:37<base>this is a possibility ... is there a way to do that via msn?
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12:39<simonrvn>i meant via email
12:39<fxiny>iirc your friend will only see a request coming from an email address
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12:40<fxiny>yes , as simonrvn said , why don't you email him ?
12:42<fxiny>base: which irc client are you using ?
12:43<base>I'm using MSN ... my friend told me that ...
12:44<fxiny>base: i mean now , where are you typing in ?
12:44<base>if I try to chat to someone, a chat request will appear on the client of the person I've sent the message to
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12:45*fxiny saves the hive ...
12:45<base>ah ... XChat
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12:47<everettz>Trying to run "dpkg-reconfigure locales" from a ssh connection. Are there directions for configuring locales without using this UI?
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12:47<base>fxiny: XChat is the IRC client
12:48<fxiny>base: right . do you know bitlbee ? with bitlbee you can use your irc client to connect to many chat networks , apt-cache show bitlbee
12:49<themill>everettz: what's wrong with it?
12:50<everettz>themill: Oh, I'm blind and UIs like that don't work properly over ssh with my screen-reader.
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12:50<themill>ahh. You could probably pick a different debconf front end
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12:51<base>fxiny: yes, someone told me about that ...
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12:53<everettz>themill: How would I attempt that? I imagine that none of them will actually work.
12:53<themill>everettz: the "readline" front end might be the nicest for you. For details:
12:55<themill>everettz: to try it out, "dpkg-reconfigure -freadline locales". To make that your permanent selection, "dpkg-reconfigure -freadline debconf"
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12:57<Stuckey>Hello, I have a program that appears to only be available for windows that I'd like to use. What's the best way to go about getting it to work on Debian?
12:57<themill>Stuckey: aptitude install wine ; wine foobar.exe ; hope.
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12:58<themill>Stuckey: if it's a .net program, then you can run it using mono rather than wine.
12:58*fxiny has a debianized "lame duck" wineZ
13:00<fxiny>but i still use the 0.0.20041019-1 version :P
13:00<Stuckey>themill, I've a bunch of files here, I'm not sure which one I should run wine on---could you take a look and tell me what you think?
13:01<Stuckey>This is a Langenscheidt dictionary on a CD, but it's compiled as a Windows program.
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13:01<themill>Stuckey: Setup.exe that's in the base directory of the CD
13:02<newsense>Stuckey, i believe windows uses .exe for their executable files
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13:02<themill>Stuckey: btw if you're running etch, then grab wine from first
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13:02<fxiny>yes : .exe and .vir :P
13:02<Stuckey>I'm using lenny.
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13:03<everettz>themill: readline worked very well, thanks
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13:05<Stuckey>themill, Thanks! It seems to have worked perfectly!
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13:07<themill>everettz: excellent. Good to hear.
13:08<themill>Stuckey: yeah, wine's like that. It either works brilliantly or it falls in a heap straight away.
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13:08<Stuckey>I didn't think first to use it because that's exactly what happened the last time I used it; it was just a mess.
13:09<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building
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13:11<goodger>dpkg, customer is "A satisfied customer, we should have him stuffed!"
13:11<dpkg>...but customer is already something else...
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13:12<goodger>oh, damn you, how do I add another response to be chosen at random?
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13:13<servilio>hi! I am having problems with, is it some known problem?
13:14<servilio>since yesterday several updates doesn't have a corresponding changelog there
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13:15<Stuckey>What's the proper way to end a process?
13:15-!-base [~base@] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via]
13:16<servilio>Stuckey: command line?
13:17<nosklo>Stuckey, kill pid
13:17<nosklo>Stuckey, where pid is the process number
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13:17<dpkg>one warez list being sent to gilbo90
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13:17<Stuckey>Does that immediately close it or does it give the program the terminate singal?
13:18<nosklo>Stuckey, gives the program the signa
13:18<servilio>Stuckey: sends SIGTERM
13:18<servilio>Stuckey: add -9 to kill forcibly
13:18<Stuckey>nosklo, And what do I give if the program isn't responding?
13:18<Stuckey>I see, thank you.
13:18<nosklo>Stuckey, if you want sigkill you may pass it to kill... check man kill
13:18<nosklo>Stuckey, the SIGKILL signal usually works
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13:19<Stuckey>Can I give multiple PIDs at once?
13:19<dpkg>Do not use kill -9 unless you have to, because using it will keep the process from cleaning up temp files, closing sockets, informing its childs about its death and other nasty things. use "kill -15 <PID>" or "kill -2 <PID>" instead
13:19<nosklo>Stuckey, yes, as the man page says.
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13:20<aqua>hi to all, i have a small problem i am after a clean install of a new lenny desktop.
13:21<aqua>i installed a new jdk on the system and updated the update-alternatives engine
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13:21<aqua>now i extructed the eclipse platform to my filesystem
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13:22<aqua>but when i try to run eclipse nothing happens, the command like is stuck for a small while and nothing comes up. i checked permissions, even root doesn't succeed so i went and ldd the eclipse binary file
13:22<aqua>this is the result ->
13:23<aqua>all are available on the system accept the first one
13:23-!-jbernard [] has joined #debian
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13:23<aqua>couldn't find that one and not the package it is contained in (searching the debian packages)
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13:23<aqua>it has never happened to me before and i already did that a few times before on different machines
13:24<aqua>i really need eclipse to run
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13:25<servilio>aqua: what version of eclipse is that?
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13:25<Stuckey>Hello, I'm trying to eject a CD but when I do I see "umount: /media/cdrom0: device is busy"
13:25<aqua>the latest ganymed rc1
13:26<aqua>servilio: the latest ganymed rc1
13:26<servilio>aqua: I have the same and it works
13:26<aqua>servilio: i believe it's the same one i used before
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13:26<servilio>aqua: it might be it is not picking the right Java VM
13:26<aqua>i know, it worked for me to, i don't understand why now it doesn't what issue might that be?
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13:26<themill>Stuckey: something is still using it such as a shell in that directory or an open file browser window.
13:26<aqua>servilio: what do you mean?
13:26<servilio>aqua: try running it with the -vm option to specify the JavaVM
13:27<Stuckey>themill, How could I find out which process is using it?
13:27<aqua>servilio: OK sec
13:27<themill>Stuckey: fuser /media/cdrom0 is usually sufficient
13:28<Stuckey>Okay so I get "/media/cdrom0: 28418c"
13:28<themill>aqua: also, run update-java-alternatives to select the sun jdk.
13:28<Stuckey>themill, but that's not a PID, is it?
13:28<weasel>28418 is a pid.
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13:28<themill>Stuckey: it is with c indicating that it has that as the current directory
13:29<aqua>themill: i did update-alternatives --config and chose the new jdk one
13:29<stew>and the c is on stderr not stdout
13:29<Stuckey>I see... Thanks
13:29<Stuckey>themill I ran "kill 28418" and now I see the same error after running eject again.
13:29<themill>you probably want to find out what that process is
13:30<aqua>servilio: well if -vm means pass the path on system to the java executable like i understood, then it doesn't work
13:30<aqua>themill: are you talking to me?
13:30<servilio>aqua: same result?
13:30<themill>aqua: update-java-alternatives fixes up a lot more than just /usr/bin/java
13:30<aqua>themill: well never done or needed before but will checkit out now
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13:33<servilio>does someone know if it is normal for changelogs to take time to appear after an updated package is uploaded to the repo?
13:34<servilio>I am trying to read the changelog of several packages uploaded to the official repo between yesterday and today, but they don't appear in the server
13:34<Stuckey>themill, How do I find out what it is? With ps?
13:34<servilio>or should I raise this in a different channel?
13:35<stew>servilio: can you give us an example of what you are looking at?
13:35<stew>servilio: are you looking at the pts?
13:36<simonrvn>probably via aptitude's ui
13:36-!-xxx__ is now known as iron
13:36<themill>Stuckey: yes
13:38<servilio>stew, simonrvn: yes I am using aptitude
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13:38<jthomas>I have Debian Sid with KDE4 from experimental, all in a virtual machine (VMware). After my install, I can use the keyboard during boot, but not at KDM... Anyone know how to fix this? It seems to be an X issue since they keybd works at boot.
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13:38<stew>servilio: what package are you looking at?
13:38<servilio>stew, simonrvn: and it shows policykit_0.9-2
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13:38<servilio>stew, simonrvn: but there is no entry for it at
13:38<stew>judd: versions policykit
13:38<judd>stew: policykit -- lenny: 0.8-2 sid: 0.9-2
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13:39<stew>oh, i don't know what is supposed to be updating those changelogs
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13:40<servilio>stew: this has been going on for some days now
13:40<themill>servilio: the changelogs thing frequently 404s. Especially with security uploads.
13:40<servilio>stew: generally the next day they would appear
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13:40<themill>servilio: you can install apt-listchanges to see them prior to install
13:41<servilio>themill: that's what I have, I think
13:41<themill>apt-listchanges pulls the changelogs out of the downloaded .debs
13:41<stew>servilio: for now you can read the changelog from
13:41<servilio>themill: but if it uses it would have the same result
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13:43<servilio>stew: ok
13:43<r0nin>can lilo multiboot with an OS on another drive?
13:45-!-Nin [] has joined #debian
13:45<Nin>hi everybody therr
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13:45<Nin>I have a laptop with an integrated intel 4500 MHD graphic card
13:46<Nin>I installed the package xserver-xorg-video-intel to have the driver
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13:47<Nin>and as described in some pages, I got the version 2:2.5.1-1 to support this card
13:47<Nin>however I am not able to run the Xorg with the driver "intel"
13:47<Nin>would anybody help me?
13:47<Nin>it was working yesterday, but after leaving home I made an update and today the Xorg does not work
13:47<Nin>any help or ideas?
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13:49<Nin>I read that the kernel 2.6.28 would support that graphic card
13:50<Nin>however i compiled the kernel but I was not able to support the card neither
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14:03<Stuckey>Hello, I'm trying to eject a cd but I'm getting this error:
14:03<Stuckey>Could someone offer me some help please?
14:04<Nin>are you using something in this CD?
14:04<adama>looks like you have a bash that is 'cd' into the disc
14:04<Nin>you cannot unmount it unless the process is free
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14:05<adama>e.g. you've done "cd /media/cdrom/" - just cd somewhere else
14:06<aqua>when running the update-java-alternatives, am i supposed to write my own .jinfo file? or should i get that some where?
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14:08<DierG>hi all
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14:21<user_>how running flasplayer on iceweal on lenny
14:21<Nin>quite good
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14:22<magyar_>hi, i need to image a fat32 usb stick to another with the mbr. how can i do this?
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14:26<nosklo>magyar_, use the dd utility
14:26<nosklo>magyar_, man dd
14:26<nosklo>magyar_, feel free to ask if the information on the man page is not enough
14:26<stew>magyar_: cp /dev/somwhere /dev/somewhereelse
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14:28<magyar_>nosklo, dd should be fine, as long as i get the boot sector also
14:28<nosklo>magyar_, dd will get everything
14:28<magyar_>stew, cp is no good for a boot disk
14:28<magyar_>thanks nosklo
14:29<stew>magyar_: sure it is
14:30<stew>cp and dd will copy the same bits (unless you give dd parameters to tell it to omit some bits)
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14:30<stew>cp will always copy the entire device, mbr and all (which is what it sounds like you want)
14:30<magyar_>hmm, the mbr also, I thought its a hiden sector
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14:31<stew>yes, cp will copy the mbr also, i don't know what you mean by hiden
14:31<stew>but whatever, dd will work too
14:31<magyar_>k, thanks stew
14:32<Ananth123>dd is better option
14:32<magyar_>i never new that cp can be used for cloning
14:33<stew>Ananth123: why?
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14:34<stew>magyar_: they both by default just open a source file and a dest file, and copy bytes until it runs out of source bytes or runs out of room on the target
14:35<nosklo>won't cp try to copy the device file itself?
14:35<stew>nosklo: no
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14:35<stew>it does the same thing as dd
14:35<Ananth123>stew: oh ok. i thought dd handles sector-wise copying
14:35<avu>cp s in fact a better choice than dd in most cases
14:35<Ananth123>esp since u can specify copy only so many bytes or so
14:35<magyar_>stew, the /dev/somwhere is it the device root or device + partition or possibly both?
14:36<Ananth123>in any case, there are always more than one ways to do the same thing :)
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14:36<stew>magyar_: if you have a usb stick /dev/sdb that you wanted to clone to another usb stick which was /dev/sdc you would run "cp /dev/sdb /dev/sdc"
14:37<magyar_>stew, k but the disk has a fat32 partition /dev/sdb1, it will just get copied over?
14:37<stew>magyar_: yes
14:37<magyar_>wow, thats nice
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14:38<magyar_>cp= "clone please"
14:38<stew>magyar_: it doesn't try to interpret the data on the disk, just copies every byte until it has either copied every byte from the source, or it runs out of room on the target
14:38<stew>the only difference between "dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sdc" and "cp /dev/sdb /dev/sdc" is that dd would be slower becusae of the less efficient block size
14:39<stew>(adding bs=4M probably makes dd faster)
14:39<nosklo>what if I want to copy the actual device file?
14:39<magyar_>stew, i got that, i for some reason thought that cp is more of a basic command that copies files only
14:41<stew>magyar_: that is correct, you are just missing that the usb stick can be treated by cp as a regular file
14:43<magyar_>stew, strictly "usb stick" scsi drives would not fall in the same category?
14:44<stew>magyar_: any block device
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14:44<stew>or character device for that matter
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14:46<magyar_>stew, well, I am going to validate this in just a few "and thats all I have to say about that" Forest Gump
14:46<simonrvn>more like CoPy
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14:54<faheem>was is the recommended way to change shmmax permanently?
14:55<weasel>add it to /etc/sysctl.conf?
14:55<faheem>weasel: that's what all the docs say. but there is no entry by default.
14:55<weasel>so add one?
14:56<faheem>weasel: ok.
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14:57<faheem>does the machine need to be rebooted for this value to take effect?
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15:00<vfaronov>Hello. Why does Debian include both gnupg (with Priority: important) and gnupg2 (with Priority: optional)? Is there a specific reason why gnupg1 is preferred?
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15:04<EmleyMoor>Is there a good tool to shorten an NTFS partition so as to leave room for Debian?
15:04<scorpion_glitch>vista has one built in
15:05<Ananth123>how do i start 2 x servers on the same machine ?
15:05<Ananth123>startx -- - something.....
15:05<EmleyMoor>cahoot: A good way to run it on a disk in a laptop?
15:05-!-tjol [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:06<cahoot>EmleyMoor: IIRC there's a livecd
15:06<Torsten_W>or parted magic
15:06-!-Stuckey [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:06<cahoot>EmleyMoor: (what I used on my t61)
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15:07<EmleyMoor>Torsten_W: That will be on UBCD 5 I gather
15:07<Torsten_W>no, it's also gparted
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15:08<Torsten_W>parted magic is a linux live-cd
15:08<EmleyMoor>Torsten_W: Yes - and it will also be on UBCD 5
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15:11<EmleyMoor>Just had a new hard disk in my laptop because XP on it was in a bad way
15:11<EmleyMoor>... and of course it's entirely XP - but I don't mind seting up Debian again
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15:12<EmleyMoor>Won't have time until Saturday week but if I make room now, at least XP can't pinch it
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15:13<Stuckey>Hello, I'm trying to eject a CD but when I do I get an error that says the device is busy:
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15:13<Stuckey>Could anyone offer me some help?
15:14<weasel>is the process still running?
15:14<Stuckey>weasel, I don't think so
15:14<Stuckey>weasel, where?
15:14<weasel>you already know how to
15:14<weasel>stuckey@debian:~$ ps auwx|grep 28418
15:15<Stuckey>It returns two things; so that means it's running?
15:15<weasel>is one of them process 28418?
15:15<weasel>then it's still running.
15:15<weasel>kill it with kill -9
15:15<weasel>that should take care of it
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15:17<Stuckey>Thanks weasel
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15:47<weetjerm>hello, how might I obtain a list of the kernel versions debian has shipped
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15:50*EmleyMoor makes sure Windows still works
15:53<weasel>weetjerm: not easily.
15:54<tuxcrafter>i all i am searching for lsdev on my system i cant find the package either
15:54<tuxcrafter>apt-cache search lsdev
15:54<tuxcrafter>no luck
15:55<tuxcrafter>cat /proc/interrupts
15:55<tuxcrafter>ignore last line please :-p
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16:22<robbie1978>anyone can help ?
16:24<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <sicco> <ask-to-ask> <polls>, or <search>
16:24<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
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16:24<valentina>salve a tutti
16:25<robbie1978>how i remove broken dpkg packages ?
16:25<robbie1978>E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
16:25<Torsten_W>then try apt-get -f install
16:26<robbie1978>i do but he say i need install new linux kernel bla bla
16:26<Torsten_W>"i need install new linux kernel bla bla" is not an error message
16:27<Torsten_W>paste the full output to a pastebin
16:27<robbie1978>W: Couldn't stat source package list stable/main Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/ - stat (2 No such file or directory)
16:27<newsense>trying to install some packaged module ?
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16:27<robbie1978>only tryed to install exim4
16:28<robbie1978>but he fked my deb
16:28<Torsten_W>apt-get update?
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16:29<robbie1978>i do
16:29<robbie1978>sprichst du deutsch torsten ?
16:29<dpkg>deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in (auf, oder - German speaking users please go to (on, or DE == Desktop Environment
16:29<Torsten_W>not here
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16:43<CHINASKI>hi room, anybody here can type in spanish?...and knowledge about debian :p
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17:10<JordiGH>My network is broken... and dmesg is crapflooded with what looks like network debug output:
17:11<JordiGH>The fun is all the way at the bottom of the log.
17:11<JordiGH>Any attempt to use the network fails, either in or out (e.g. trying to ssh into the broken machine), and I get more crapflooding when I try.
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17:12<JordiGH>Strangely enough, the interfaces can get a dhcp address fine, though.
17:12<JordiGH>Both eth0 and wlan0,
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17:12<newsense>dhcp operates in userland
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17:13<JordiGH>newsense: So what did I do to Linux? Btw, I get almost identical behaviour in both .24 and .26
17:13<mgoetze>JordiGH: are you using iptables and/or selinux?
17:13<newsense>ive read the logcheck manual a few times and still having issues with how to block certain log entrys anyone suggest here i should put them ?
17:13<JordiGH>mgoetze: Not to my knowledge, unless I set it up accidentally.
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17:14<newsense>JordiGH, unlikely
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17:14<mgoetze>JordiGH: what does "iptables -L -vn" give you? how about "getenforce"? and can you ping localhost?
17:15<JordiGH>mgoetze: I can ping localhost, one moment with the other requests...
17:16<JordiGH>mgoetze: I don't have getenforce installed, whatever it is... and iptables... one sec, I have to copy the output with usb pendrive.
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17:22<JordiGH>(I have to type slowly because apparently typing too quickly is uncomfortable to listen to.)
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17:38<glax>hi guys, Is it possible to create a screen and run some script on it automatically when the system starts?
17:38<stuckey>glax: Yes
17:39<glax>stuckey, where can I find information about it?
17:39<stuckey>glax: What is it that you wish to do?
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17:40<ranix> create a screen?
17:40<glax>when the system start, run this commands automatically --> screen -S myscript, then on the screen --> python /path/
17:40<glax>thats all
17:40<ranix>in X or in the virtual terminal
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17:41<ranix>would you want to also automatically have a user logged in to use the script, or is that not necessary?
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17:42<ranix>So you would like to automatically log root into a non-x virtual terminal, then run a script as that user
17:43<ranix>I don't know how, but I'm certain someone here does
17:44<JordiGH>Hrm, lots of Google hits pointing to kernel bugs for my dmesg output... :-(
17:44<JordiGH>But kernel bugs in both .24 and .26?
17:45<adama>glax: put into root's crontab: @reboot /usr/bin/screen -S myscript /usr/bin/python /path/
17:45<JordiGH>Btw, the other day, I saw that Emacs running as root WHICH I'M POSITIVE I DIDN'T RUN MYSELF was eating 50% CPU. I was really freaked out... my lappy has been acting possessed lately.
17:45<adama>try that, syntax may need some fixing
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17:46<glax>thanks, will try doing that way
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17:53<stuckey>Does anyone here use issii? If so, could you tell me how you're supposed to read something which has already scrolled off the screen?
17:53<JordiGH>stuckey: pgup
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17:54<stuckey>JordiGH: haha thanks
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18:23<JordiGH>Argh, why did Linux suddenly decide to block all my network traffic? :-(
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18:25<adama>JordiGH: I give up, why?
18:25<macman_>hi all .. i asked this question on freenode but didn't really understand the answer .. can i go from linux-image-2.6.24 to linux-image-2.6.26 ? .. also if i do this will i stay on etchandhalf or will it upgrade/downgrade me to sid ?
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18:26<JordiGH>Hm, maybe... maybe dnsmasq is to blame...
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18:28<mgoetze>JordiGH: because you configured iptables to do so? (sorry, i overlooked your paste before)
18:28<JordiGH>adama: If either of these two provide a clue to you, let me know, because I want to find out too:
18:29<mgoetze>JordiGH: not only that, you configured it to spam your syslog too
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18:29<JordiGH>mgoetze: I'm beginning to suspect a kernel bug, or that it's easier to accidentally configure iptables than I thought.
18:29<mgoetze>JordiGH: that's definitely not a kernel bug
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18:29<JordiGH>mgoetze: iptables is setup?
18:29<mgoetze>JordiGH: just an extremely silly iptables configuration
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18:30<JordiGH>mgoetze: How did I ever do that?
18:30<mgoetze>JordiGH: i don't know
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18:30<JordiGH>mgoetze: How do I undo it?
18:31<mgoetze>JordiGH: for x in INPUT OUTPUT FORWARD; do iptables -P $x ACCEPT; iptables -F $x; done
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18:32<JordiGH>mgoetze: Let's see...
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18:33<JordiGH>mgoetze: Yay.
18:33<JordiGH>mgoetze: What the hell... how did that ever happen? I swear I've never used iptables before.
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18:34<mgoetze>JordiGH: i can't tell you. but whatever did it was pretty silly
18:35<JordiGH>Thank you very much... that was very weird.
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18:42<kosmik>hi, anybody knows about ufraw or rawstudio?
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18:48<macman_>any ideas ?
18:48<macman_>sorry .. im at work using some java program
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18:52<macman_> anyone here ?
18:52<EmleyMoor>No, we're all gone <g>
18:53<macman_>was wondering if i can go from a linux-2.6.24 to a linux-2.6.26 kernal and still be on etchandhalf
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18:53<EmleyMoor>macman_: At least in theory you can
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18:54<macman_>how ?
18:55<EmleyMoor>I can't really be sure you won't encounter problems, but get the kernel source and use make-kpkg to build it...
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18:55<EmleyMoor>There is a bit more to it than that but that's the basic idea
18:55<macman_>emleymoor .. i went from etch to etchanhalf using apt-get .. you don't think it will be the same ?
18:56<EmleyMoor>You can't go straight there in the same way
18:56<macman_>oh ok
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18:57<barnes>macman_ google for build kernel debian way
18:58<barnes>then klick the url to howto kompile kernel etch yada yada yada
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18:59<barnes>macman_ why do you want 2.6.26 kernel?
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19:00<macman_>barnes .. im trying to make my broadcom card go into monitor mode and packet injection .. i looked on google and an author used 2.6.26 so i was wondering if i had to install a new kernal
19:02<dondelelcaro>macman_: it shouldn't be required
19:02<barnes>I doubt that it will help but try
19:02<dondelelcaro>macman_: you can go into promiscuous mode, and inject packets with almost any (working) card and almost any kernel version
19:03<macman_>how ? if you can't tell me can i get a website or something ?
19:03<dondelelcaro>(that said, there are exceptions for monitor mode and some wireless cards, but that's different)
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19:07<macman_>dondelecaro: any ideas ?
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19:14<macman_>in the terminal how can i go to the begining of the command ?
19:14<macman_>or to the end ?
19:16<goodger>macman_: press "home" and "end"... as with everything else..
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19:18<Diehardy>What the
19:18<Diehardy>Where am I?
19:18<goodger>the USA, I suspect
19:18<Diehardy>What is this goddamn place?
19:18<goodger>also, OFTC#debian
19:18<BoBo>how change my keyboard
19:18<BoBo>i have usb
19:18<BoBo>and dont work
19:18<goodger>Diehardy: this is the debian community support channel
19:19<BoBo>how change ?
19:19<Diehardy>what does that mean goodger?
19:20<goodger>Diehardy: it's where people who are having difficulty using debian ask questions about it, and hope they get answered by people who know about debian already
19:20-!-Diehardy [] has quit []
19:20<BoBo>now i have a ps2 keyboard and i buy a usb kayboard how change configuration to work my usb keyboard ???
19:21<mgoetze>goodger: awww look what you did!
19:21<mgoetze>BoBo: you shouldn't need to change anything
19:21<BoBo>but dont work
19:22<goodger>BoBo: disconnect the ps2 keyboard, plug in the usb keyboard, and start typing?
19:22<goodger>does that not work?
19:22<EmleyMoor>BoBo: Does it work at all? (in terminal but not in X perhaps?)
19:22<BoBo>work in bios and in x terminal and console linux dont work
19:23<EmleyMoor>BoBo: Did you build your own kernel?
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19:24<goodger>I think I scared him with "debian", mgoetze... maybe he was high
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19:25<BoBo>EmleyMoor: no how i am novice in debian ...
19:25<EmleyMoor>BoBo: I was not recommending it
19:25-!-krause [] has joined #debian
19:26<BoBo>and how resolv my problem ?
19:26<krause>good night
19:26<krause>what you problem?
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19:27<EmleyMoor>Well, I never changed from one to the other on the same system - I am surprised it doesn't just plain work
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19:27<goodger>krause: his USB keyboard, which he just purchased, does not work when plugged in to replace his ps2 one
19:27<goodger>BoBo: are you familiar with /etc/X11/xorg.conf?
19:27-!-fenix [] has joined #debian
19:28<goodger>BoBo: does it contain a section labelled "keyboard"?
19:28<fenix>estou aqui
19:28<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
19:28<goodger>BoBo: also, what version of debian are you using? etch, lenny, stable, testing, sid, unstable?
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19:29<krause>dpkg, :D
19:29<dpkg>somebody said d was a systems programming language. Its focus is on combining the power and high performance of C and C++ with the programmer productivity of modern languages like Ruby and Python. Special attention is given to the needs of quality assurance, documentation, management, portability and reliability., or uninterruptible sleep (usually IO)
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19:31<goodger>BoBo: try running "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" as root, and follow its instructions to configure your new keyboard (with both keyboards plugged in)
19:31<krause>goodger, im latin man, if u need only tell me
19:32<goodger>krause: er, ok, I think I understand...
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19:44<dpkg>somebody said eta was Estimated Time of Arrival. Or Emanation Thermal Analysis, or Electro-Thermal Analysis. Or a terrorist association created in Euskadi (Spain), defending radical nationalism. With their fascist ideology, and an always rising hypocrisy, they are one of the biggest political problems in Spain.
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19:45<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, lenny is the codename for the next Debian release, currently testing. To upgrade to lenny, ask me about <etch->lenny>. Lenny is the binoculars. Lenny will be known as version 5.0 and it will hopefully be released soon (ask me about <wwlr>). A <moving target>. See also <testing> and <lenny status>.
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19:47<goodger>sylarr: Q1 2009 by my reckoning
19:47-!-crt [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:47<sylarr>that's about now :/
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19:48<goodger>any time in the next 81 days, in fact
19:48<sylarr>I watch the bugs and they go one step back and 0.9 step forward all the time
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19:48<dondelelcaro>that's pretty much normal
19:49-!-roger [~roger@] has joined #debian
19:49<goodger>they have, however, been decreasing overall at a pretty much constant speed for a few months [according to a blog post I saw with a trendline, that I am annoyingly unable to find again]
19:49<dpkg>Lenny (5.0) will release WIR, SIYH and RSN. It will not be released while there are release critical bugs: and see "Number concerning the next release". Ask me about <wir> <siyh> <rsn> <lenny status> <lenny pool> and see
19:49<dondelelcaro>that trendline estimate was pretty flawed, actually
19:49<chealer>!tell sylarr about msg the bot
19:49<dondelelcaro>of course, using any sort of linear model to predict such processes has fundamental problems
19:50<goodger>yeah, I think it's going to release earlier. but the trend is still present, at least, even if it's curved..
19:50<dondelelcaro>(since it also predicts that we'll have negative bugs, which is obviously wrong)
19:50<goodger>it seems to have a positive second derivative...
19:50<goodger>i.e., the rate of fixes relative to the rate of reports is increasing...
19:51<goodger>but that's just from looking at it, I'm not qualified to do the data-fitting or anything, so I'm probably wrong
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20:07<brianwillis1984>what is the newest stable verison out there for debian
20:08<Elb>hi, I'm trying to use /etc/apt/preferences to keep certain versions of my packages, but apt-get upgrade still want's to upgrade them, could someone help me identify what I am doing wrong
20:08<goodger>brianwillis1984: 4.0r6 "etch"
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20:20<chealer>Elb: just ask
20:21<Elb>sorry, still digging the web to find some answer :)
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20:22<Elb>say, I've got php5-cli and put this into preferences:
20:22<Elb>Package: php5*
20:22<Elb>Pin: release a=stable
20:22<Elb>Pin-Priority: 1000
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20:23<Elb>chealer: apt-get -s upgrade still puts php5-cli on an upgrade list
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20:25<jesse>hello all
20:25<jesse>is anyone familiar with windows mobile
20:26<reneger>jelly, a bit...
20:26<jesse>I have a samsung sch-i760... this one has win mobile 6.0 and my old one had 6.1... i was wondering if there were a way for me to put 6.1 on my knew phone
20:27<jesse>or if limo (linux mobile) would ever be released for the sch-i760
20:27<jesse>i don't even know if its possible to put that on a phone but if it is...
20:27<reneger>jelly, go to samsung.. if samsung ha no update, no chance. i tried to install a 6.1 to a 6.0 device ... it fails ...
20:27<reneger>aeh sorry
20:27<reneger>bad tab complete
20:28<jesse>its cool
20:28<jesse>thanks for the help
20:28<jesse>i just really hate win mob 6.0
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20:28<jesse>6.1 is soo much easier to use in terms of how txting functions and task manager .. etc
20:30<reneger>i have aktually a ipaq 914c with 6.1 pro and i miss many funktions from 5.0 on my hw6910
20:30-!-krlos [] has joined #debian
20:30<jesse>i dunno, i really like 6.1
20:30<jesse>but i wish i could get linux mobile on it
20:31<jesse>hey man.. i found the thing for the 6.1 upgrade
20:31<jesse>you saved me from having to cry myself to sleep lol
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20:32<reneger>i miss a funktion that displays the accu fuel in percent on my home screen ..... on 5.0 it was a today_panel it was display the charge in percent and many other things
20:32<krause>people, first sorry my english. I use slackware and i'm interessing in use debian because appear to be more simple to manage. U can, please, tell me if u know, what the real diff of this two distributions?
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20:32<jesse>i think you can make 6.1 do it w/ different themes
20:33<jesse>krause, i've used many debian spin offs.. mint linux, ubuntu..
20:33<jesse>and i used to use slackware 11.0 for a couple years
20:34<jesse>i've yet to try straight debian but OS's like ubuntu are really low maint. but they have some funky premissions related restraints at times
20:34<jesse>i'm sure there are work arounds but i do, at times, miss slackware
20:34<goodger>krause: debian is very stable, has few bugs, and has an extremely intelligent package manager that can upgrade between releases often without user intervention
20:34<jesse>overall ubuntu is cake to use and i would assume debian is pretty close
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20:35<jesse>well guys i gotta run.. gotta boot into windows to install 6.1 on my mobile =)
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20:35<krause>very thanks
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20:36<krause>i think that pacot manager is the great advantage, no?
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20:37<hollywoodb>krause: Debian and Slack are both very stable and reliable. Debian offers advanced package management with dependency resolution and a much much larger software library.
20:37<krause>i dont know if slack has the apt-get because i compile ever but i will check when i arrive in my home
20:38<krause>hollywoodb, i see!! much much much or 4.... dvds of instalation..... :O
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20:38<goodger>krause: it has a much simpler version
20:38<krause>yes, i like this.
20:38<goodger>debian can also be installed from a single CD that downloads components that you need
20:39<krause>i loose my LFS and no wanna loose time with is again then i use slack.... but i see apt-get in many foruns around the world
20:39<krause>goodger, good
20:40<krause>goodger, what i can see the list of packs of goodger?
20:40<goodger>you want a list of packages?
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20:40<krause>goodger, i see the distribution that i actualy use in job (helix) and have apt-get
20:41<krause>yes, its in group?
20:41-!-kajamaja [] has joined #debian
20:41<goodger>hi kajamaja [again]
20:41<kajamaja>i am new to this stuff, can you guys help me some things
20:41<kajamaja>i have ubuntu 8.10 with hp laptop
20:42<kajamaja>it freezes once in a while
20:42<goodger>!tell kajamaja about ubuntu
20:42<goodger>sorry, kajamaja, we do not support ubuntu here
20:43<krause>goodger, i modify /etc/apt/sources.list, right?
20:43<goodger>krause: to do what?
20:44<krause>to begin get packs from debian in my linux
20:44-!-sphenxes03 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:44<krause>maybe i need to do ln i think
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20:44<goodger>krause: in helix? that is probably not a good idea, but it is possible if you are skilled
20:44<krause>in librarys
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20:45<goodger>I mean, attempting an in-place upgrade to debian from helix is probably not a good idea, but is possible
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20:46<krause>goodger, u know where i can read about mount of packs apt-get?
20:46<krause>can i see what the pack will do?
20:47<krause>pack has binarys of sources?
20:47<krause>its frequentily questions in my brain
20:47<goodger>krause: type "aptitude show packagename" to show information about the package
20:47-!-Scott_ [] has joined #debian
20:47<goodger>the package contains binaries, yes. there is a related system to compile things from scratch [slackware-like]
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20:48<krause>there is a pack maker?
20:48<krause>os each is codifing?
20:49-!-mode/#debian [+l 364] by debhelper
20:49<goodger>krause: what?
20:49<krause>sorry, i can try again
20:49<Scott_>Hello, could someone help me with the install, I am getting "No common CD-ROM drive was detected". Though, it boots initially :O
20:50<Scott_>It seems to have a problem after you select the language that you want to use.
20:50<reneger>Scott_, not driver for your CD-ROM was loaded?
20:50<krause>exists a soft to make packages for apt-get or the packages are develop by hands. one by one.
20:50<Scott_>reneger - right. I have a SATA CD-ROM
20:50<reneger>krause, yes. dpkg-buldpackage
20:50<goodger>Scott_: that will be the driver loading process... the installer has no driver for your drive
20:51-!-sisa [] has joined #debian
20:51<Scott_>Reneger - it's interesting though, OpenSUSE installs no problem.
20:51-!-sisa [] has quit []
20:51<goodger>I also have a SATA optical drive and it works fine. is this drive esoteric in any way?
20:51<goodger>additionally, what version of debian are you trying to install?
20:51<Scott_>No, it's an LG (actually Matusita).
20:51<reneger>Scott_, opensuse is not debian ;)
20:51-!-hollywoodb [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:51<Scott_>Yep, I was just doing a test.
20:52<reneger>Scott_, what version do you want to install?
20:52-!-Tallken [] has quit [Quit: Saindo]
20:52<reneger>etch? or lenny?
20:52<Scott_>I was going with Lenny, hoping for the later kernel and gcc
20:52<Scott_>And I thought it would support my newer hardware ;-(
20:53<goodger>intriguing bug
20:53-!-siryoga [~siryoga@] has joined #debian
20:53<Scott_>Yep, it looks like some Ubuntu users have had the same issues, though their fixes don't seem to have any effect.
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20:53<reneger>Scott_, boot you opensuse und check what kernel module it was loaded for the cd. an try to load a module in den debian install
20:53<Scott_>A different installer or something, I don't know.
20:54<goodger>indeed, opensuse is almost completely different...
20:54<krause>goodger, thanks for all. health to u and u family, good night
20:54<Scott_>Right, I actually had thought of that. Unfortunately, you can't get to an interactive console during the install (cause I was going to look). So I might just do a quick minimal install.
20:55<goodger>krause: you're welcome
20:55<goodger>Scott_: press ctrl-alt-f2 and [enter]?
20:55<goodger>oh, suse.
20:55<Scott_>I was up too late last night on this. I'm giving it a second night.
20:55<Scott_>yeh, you can view some console output but that it all .
20:56<Scott_>Well, here goes SUSE
20:56<goodger>is there no alternative installer or anything, without the GUI?
20:56<reneger>i will spent this night to get my transparent proxy working ...
20:56<Scott_>For SUSE, I don't know. I haven't gone that far down that road.
20:57<Scott_>I was just toying with it on my laptop at one time and had the cd laying around. When I started to have problems with Debian I gave it a shot.
20:58<goodger>ah, were there any specific problems beyond your defective optical driver?
20:59<Scott_>Well, I never got that far to tell, but I'm not expecting any. That CD message was right after the language selection, really early in the install process.
20:59<goodger>how annoying.
20:59<goodger>hmm, suggest you try a netinst cd
21:00<Scott_>I don't have much to go on. At least if it were a running system you might have a fighting chance but....
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21:01<Scott_>Ok, netinst... I was looking around for that - 64bit for Lenny. Where would that be. I would give that a shot.
21:01<goodger>a businesscard netinst cd, in fact --- that doesn't need the cd to install so long as it can drive your network card, so it will make the non-working disk drive irrelevant
21:01<goodger>wait a sec, I'll find it
21:01<Scott_>Wow, your good.
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21:02<reneger>or try a daily build ....
21:03<Scott_>I would try either.. I want to get to a full system obviously, so this will install a basic then I just add as I go?
21:03<Scott_>That is what I do anyway.
21:03<Scott_>(Haven't built a new one from scratch in a while)
21:03<goodger>I was only good that time by coincidence, firefox happened to have the URL stored. you could indeed try a daily build, or that URL might even be recent enough to fix the disc drive, who knows
21:04<Scott_>there ya go. Ok, let me check
21:04<Scott_>Well, I have a download coming in.
21:04<goodger>no, it loads the bare bare minimum from the disc and then downloads the installer from the net, and the installer then downloads stuff for you [you get a menu]
21:04<Scott_>Ahhh, that will work.
21:05<goodger>it will install without the disc. it may not make the disc work
21:05<Scott_>Nice quick iso burn too. that's nice.
21:06<goodger>yeah, it's designed for those little novelty non-disc-shaped credit card style discs
21:06<Scott_>I would suspect that a standard SATA cd-rom driver will work.
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21:06<goodger>so would I... you can get much more info from a working installation about why the drive isn't working
21:06<goodger>or so I think. I'm not totally sure
21:07<Scott_>I have already been playing with ESXi, suse, windows xp... the only thing that doesn't recognize it is debian.
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21:09<goodger>debian has a modern kernel in lenny [2.6.24] so it should work perfectly
21:09<Scott_>Just bought the whole system and it arrived yesterday. This was NOT the problem that I thought that I would have. I imagined all kinds of things, this was not one of them.
21:09-!-menocchio [] has quit []
21:09<goodger>in fact, it does work perfectly on my system --- I also have a SATA optical drive running on an amd64 system
21:09<Scott_>that's good to hear.
21:10<goodger>not really, it makes it more perplexing for your case
21:10<goodger>what problems did you expect?
21:10-!-krause [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:11<Scott_>You know, nic drivers, SATA hard disk, audio, video. Just about everything but the cdrom :)
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21:12<Scott_>I can deal with those (at least take a stab at them).
21:12<goodger>SATA hard disks are fine, audio is fine [except for one particularly recalcitrant card, but creative just fixed that], video works fine except for some advanced features like dualhead which need special pounding-at...
21:13<goodger>in my experience it all just works ^_^
21:13<mike>lol im a lucky on ehaha
21:13<Scott_>Well, I bought this guy... ASUS M3N78 Pro
21:13<Scott_>has the NV 8300
21:13<mike>i hve no problems here just blacklisted an old soundcard driver and bam works fine
21:14<Scott_>I downloaded the drivers from nv's site. I just hope I'm not pushing my luck.
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21:16<Scott_>WOW... it made it past the CD-ROM check 8)
21:16<mike>haha fill me in is that a good thing?
21:16<goodger>the 8300 graphics card?
21:17<goodger>mike: yeah, it is
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21:17<Scott_>My SATA CD-ROM was not being recognized during the install.
21:17<mike>goodger: yeah its not my first tiem with linux but im no expert at it lol
21:17<goodger>support for the geforce 8300 with hardware acceleration is provided by a single command-line instruction and a very simple edit to a configuration file...
21:18<goodger>support for the geforce 8300 without hardware acceleration is built-in
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21:18<ry60003333>I'm having problems with an install of 4.0r6 with the defaults :P
21:18<Scott_>I'll take the hardware accel please.
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21:19<Scott_>goodger, do you have a link to that 8300 hardware accel tip?
21:19<mike>hey can one of you explain to me how to change the highest res on my vid card i had my dad install while i was at work and he choose the wrong resolution
21:19<Ben_Pang>I has got wrong for "python or pycentral not found in pycentral.rtinstall hook"
21:19<goodger>Scott_: I'll have the bot tell you
21:19<Scott_>I spent all my time fighting with the cdrom, haven't even gone their yet.
21:19<Ben_Pang>wha't wrong ? and what can i to do?
21:20<goodger>actually I can just give you more specific instructions by PM, that's probably simpler..?
21:20<goodger>mike: you need to edit the monitor section of /etc/X11/xorg.conf
21:21-!-jcwu [] has joined #debian
21:21<ry60003333>I'm getting that "Automatic Printer Configuration" failed, and I have no printer attached while trying to install.
21:21-!-fike [~fike@] has joined #debian
21:21<mike>goodger: ill take a look and see if im compitent enough to do that haha
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21:25<mike>goodger: all i had to do was add my resolution to the file
21:25<goodger>mike: there'll be a big list of monitor resolutions, you can't miss it. just don't input one that the monitor can't support... and if possible, find the monitor's manual to find its sync rates [...... oh, you've done it. good
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21:26<mike>goodger: i just added my resolution, i should probably ad my hertz in as well even though i think my monitor is capible at 75, i think its suppose to run at 60
21:27<goodger>mike: is it an LCD?
21:28<mike>goodger: yeah
21:28<mike>googder: i just added my res. to every line that said resolutions lol
21:28-!-orochi [] has joined #debian
21:29<goodger>then the refresh rate is pretty much immaterial from what I've seen, but you should probably put the right one in
21:29<mike>ok now if i reboot and have the wrong size how can i fix it haha
21:29<mike>im sure its right but just in case
21:29<simonrvn>no need to reboot
21:29<orochi>Hello :> I'd like to try installing the nvidia .run installer for the latest drivers to see if it fixes some image corruption issues, but i've only ever installed the drivers through apt-get there a guide or a page on switching from debian's packaged drivers to the manually-installable ones?
21:29<goodger>mike: just log in and out
21:30-!-mike [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:30<simonrvn>orochi: not that i know of
21:30-!-mike [] has joined #debian
21:30<mike>ok lol it hasnt changed XD
21:30<goodger>orochi: I forget the bot command about this, but if I could remember it, the bot would now be telling you, including the capital letters, "DO NOT USE THE NVIDIA DRIVERS FROM NVIDIA"...
21:30<mike>maybe i missed something
21:31<orochi>goodger: Any information as to why that is the case?
21:31<goodger>yes, I have now found the applicable bot command...
21:31<goodger>!why nvidia-installer sucks
21:31<dpkg>nvidia-installer works fine for you today, granted. Let's say tomorrow Xorg is updated. nVidia will break. If you try to uninstall nvidia (nvidia-installer --uninstall), then you break Xorg badly. nvidia-installer overwrites files at random, and has NO CONCEPT of package management. USE THE DEBIAN PACKAGES. Ask me about <nvidia> <nvidia compiler fix>.
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21:32<mike> SubSection "Display" Depth 4 Modes "1280x1024" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection
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21:32<orochi>goodger: Why is that a problem? Every time I update xorg in another distribution i reinstall the drivers and they're fine :>
21:32<mike>added the 1280x1024
21:32-!-Caroll [~caroll@] has quit [Quit: Saindo]
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21:33<orochi>just keep the .run file and run it every time you update xorg or the kernel and it's fine, that's not the case in debian?
21:33-!-ry60003333 [~ry6000333@] has quit [Quit: ry60003333]
21:33<goodger>I'm not sure --- I've never used it, because I followed the instructions in huge capital letters to "USE THE DEBIAN PACKAGES."...
21:34-!-geenna_ [~geenna@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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21:34<goodger>in theory you can do that, but it will not necessary not ruin your system --- that's all I'm saying
21:34-!-mike [] has joined #debian
21:34<mike>ok the reboot did it
21:34<mike>it worked
21:35<mike>now to get my sd card reader working
21:35<goodger>oh god...
21:35<orochi>goodger: Yes, I understand that...however it's a bit more than a theory as I've done it under at least 7 other distributions without problems :> I have a feeling it's written in "big letters" because someone got annoyed at having to answer the same question over and over
21:36<mike>goodger: thank you fro helping me with my res problem its much appreciated
21:36<goodger>mike: that's quite all right
21:36-!-peter [] has joined #debian
21:36<goodger>orochi: it's in the bot because it's frequently asked; I would guess that it's in big letters because people ignore it and break their systems
21:36<mike>now can anyone help me get my sd card reader working?
21:37<orochi>goodger: Not because of the nvidia installer, however, which makes the bot's message misleading :> It will break if you install the drivers and never re-install them again after kernel and xorg updates, but that's because components are compiled during the installation process, not because there's a problem with the installer
21:38<goodger>I think there is a problem with the installer if it breaks Xorg when removing itself
21:38<orochi>I can understand the message being there for new users as they wouldn't necessarily know that :> But to say that it "sucks" is a bit much
21:38<goodger>clearly it does suck, it doesn't work properly
21:38<orochi>goodger: I wouldn't be able to comment on that as I've never seen a case of it happen
21:38<mike>haha just liek the nonfree flash plugin XD
21:39-!-chahibi [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:39<tmg1|naur>There is a laptop hard drive which both this laptop(and another laptop)'s bios doesn't see, ubuntu doesn't see it either. (the hard drive contains a not-booting debian partition ) is there anything I can use to detect its partitions?
21:39<tmg1|naur>fdisk -l gives nothing
21:40<tmg1|naur>it's pre2000, and this laptop is very slow
21:40<Ben_Pang>I can't upgrade package reportbug for traceback /usr/bin/pycentral "AtributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'byte-compile'"
21:40<tmg1|naur>(circa 1997, it is just crawling)
21:40-!-S_WO [] has joined #debian
21:40<tmg1|naur>of course ubuntu isn't debian
21:41<tmg1|naur>technically the bios isn't debian either
21:41<mike>well if the bios isnt seeing the harddrive i doubt any os you put in there will see it
21:41-!-fike [~fike@] has quit [Quit: Saindo]
21:41<goodger>are you using debian with this system at this time?
21:41<tmg1|naur>debian has seen disks that my bios hasn't in the past.. .
21:41-!-saw [] has joined #debian
21:41<Ben_Pang>I can't upgrade etch, what's wrong ~~ can help me ?
21:41<tmg1|naur>there's debian on the hard disk, but not on the livecd i'm 'running'
21:42<goodger>Ben_Pang: package reportbug is breaking?
21:42<goodger>tmg1|naur: then please refer to the support channel for the livecd in question
21:42<saw>8.10 text disappears
21:42<Ben_Pang>goodger,traceback /usr/bin/pycentral "AtributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'byte-compile'"
21:42-!-Dracie [] has joined #debian
21:42<Ben_Pang>goodger,wrong by package reportbug
21:43-!-hollywoodb [] has joined #debian
21:43<goodger>Ben_Pang: please pastebin the entire output of apt-get upgrade
21:43-!-thomas [~thomas@PPPOE-05-0186.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has joined #debian
21:43<goodger>tmg1|naur: thank you
21:43<tmg1|naur>goodger thanks for missing the point. The livecd is fine--there are debian packages that can probably help
21:43-!-geenna_ [~geenna@] has joined #debian
21:44<Ben_Pang>goodger,ok~wait moment
21:44<goodger>if the livecd is not debian, we cannot support it here, sorry
21:44<tmg1|naur>this issue has nothing to do with ubuntu, as you made clear the OS level stuff is not working
21:44<goodger>if it has nothing to do with ubuntu, then it has even less to do with debian
21:44<mike>your trying to boot from a drive your bios cant see correct?
21:44<tmg1|naur>boot...see...anything pretty much
21:45<orochi>tmg1|naur: You're really not going to get far trying to get support for a distro other than debian in here :>
21:45<tmg1|naur>I'm running out of ideas
21:45-!-reneger [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:45<mike>flash the bios?
21:45<tmg1|naur>orochi--it's a debian stable partition where the good stuff is
21:45<orochi>I think people are trying to politely suggest that
21:45<tmg1|naur>do 1997-era laptops support bios flashing?
21:45-!-saw [] has quit []
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21:45<goodger>tmg1|naur: so you acknowledge that the issue has nothing to do with your operating system and is completely unrelated to debian, but you are still asking us to help
21:45<mike>umm if they updated the bios along any lines im guessing so
21:45<orochi>tmg1|naur: Possibly, you'd have to go into the bios config and check around for an option to update the firmware
21:46<mike>cause a flash would be the only way for you to update your bios?
21:46-!-joey_ [~joey@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:46<tmg1|naur>goodger; I've encountered a package in the past that helps in situations similar (although perhaps not as bad) as this, but hey
21:47<goodger>tmg1|naur: if you are not using some form of debian to use that package, then we cannot help you, I'm sorry
21:47-!-midlis [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
21:47<tmg1|naur>but it'd be nice to know what that package was.
21:47<tmg1|naur>oh well
21:47<goodger>I don't know what packages ubuntu provides. that's the problem, I'm afraid
21:47<tmg1|naur>i don't really care what ubuntu provides
21:48-!-swo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:48<goodger>well, I need to know what it provides in order to help you identify something in ubuntu that will help, since you are using ubuntu
21:48<mike>two different distro's
21:49<tmg1|naur>if I have to walk the 7km walk home to get my debian cd to fix this problem I would but something tells me that that won't help
21:49-!-freealan [] has joined #debian
21:49<goodger>it will help insofar that I will know what is on the disc in question and be able to help you
21:49<goodger>thank you Ben_Pang
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21:51<tmg1|naur>but just so it's clear, I am not looking for ubuntu tools--I know better than that and I wouldn't waste your time(I'll waste #ubuntu's time for that)---But if I run out of ideas I lose someone to windows from debian, so I thought it was worth a try
21:51<tmg1|naur>there's no need for tools to come from ubuntu
21:51<Ben_Pang>goodger,can you help me? what can to do ?
21:51-!-githogori [] has joined #debian
21:51<goodger>Ben_Pang: I am looking at it now
21:51<tmg1|naur>but doesn't look like there's much left so meh
21:51-!-tmg1|naur [] has left #debian []
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21:52<goodger>ugh. if only he'd said that I could have helped...
21:52<goodger>Ben_Pang: looks like it may be a known issue
21:53-!-Zylvain [] has joined #debian
21:54<Ben_Pang>goodger,how do resolving?
21:55<mike>hmm i cant get my damn sd card reader to work XD i dont even know where to start -.-
21:56<goodger>Ben_Pang: sorry, it does not look like there is a fix yet. you can wait to receive an upgrade from apt-get, or install a different version of reportbug (which I will help you with if you want)
21:56<goodger>mike: I've no idea either. I use my stepfather's windows box
21:57<Ben_Pang>goodger,removing reportbug can resolving?
21:57<goodger>Ben_Pang: yes, if you do not use it
21:57<mike>goodger, lol im on a laptop and for the most part everything is working great with a little work i got the soundcard and everything going, but i cant get it to see my webcam or my card reader
21:57<Ben_Pang>goodger,thanks you~
21:57-!-orochi [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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21:58<goodger>Ben_Pang: you're welcome
21:58-!-trixy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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21:58<goodger>mike: those are both generally poorly supported for some reason...
21:59<mike>goodger: lack of driver support for linux haha, ill just eat my loss on them, its cool everything i was worried about works fine
21:59<goodger>they seem dependent upon proprietary and/or patented and/or secret and/or incomprehensible communications protocols, particularly the webcams
22:00<mike>goodger: ill just sit in here and help out who i can, like i said im no expert but ive run linux a few times and could lend a hand with simple problems
22:00<Ben_Pang>goodger,I can't removing reportbug~and i can't using dpkg~~oh~~so worring~
22:00-!-superjet_busy [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
22:00<goodger>Ben_Pang: pastebin the output of aptitude remove reportbug?
22:03<goodger>does anyone here know how to forcibly remove a package with broken configure scripts/etc?
22:03-!-peter [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:04<mike>couldnt he try installing an older version of the reportbug over it?
22:05<mike>or reinstalli ng the same version to see if it would fix the file\then ...... remove it again
22:05<goodger>mike: no older version is available AFAIK. the problem is being caused by the installation not completing so reinstallation would fail
22:05-!-jt_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:05<goodger>perhaps upgrading it to a newer version would work, though
22:05<mike>well then =d
22:06<mike>i knew i wasnt useless =D
22:06<goodger>Ben_Pang: are you willing to have software that is not from etch on your system?
22:06<sylarr>what do you think about clamav's 'broken executable's?
22:06<goodger>mike: very few people are truly useless in _all_ senses of the word. the world will need unskilled labour for the foreseeable future
22:06<goodger>sylarr: not heard about those, go on..?
22:07<sylarr>goodger, "Broken executable is a generic warning that clamwin could not parse the structure of the executable. (It is very difficult to navigate unknown roads when you don't have a map of the area) This does not mean the file is a virus, it just means clamwin can't understand this particular executable. You can turn off broken executable detection in the settings of clamwin."
22:07<Ben_Pang>goodger, not ~
22:08<goodger>does that have an inconvenient number of false positives?
22:08<goodger>Ben_Pang: you do not want any not-etch software on your system?
22:08<sylarr>but it finds me false positive on a file that I need
22:08<goodger>unless it has a truly overwhelming amount of false positives, I'd say it was a good part of a heuristic antiviral process
22:09<mike>ben_pang: updating the reportbug may help you remove it
22:09<sylarr>but the problem is that I have put clamav in a position that I can't use a file, if it thinks that it is positive
22:10<goodger>perhaps some sort of warning is in order, rather than stopping you from using the file?
22:10<sylarr>I wonder if there is a "hey this is a false positive, you damn clamav" mechanism
22:10<goodger>not sure
22:10<Ben_Pang>goodger, I understand what do you say~
22:11<Ben_Pang>mike: i can't upgrade system or singe package~
22:11<Ben_Pang>mike: can't using dpkg now
22:11<Ben_Pang>mike: got wrong same~
22:11<mike>goodger: you could help him update his reportbug correct?
22:12<goodger>mike: yeah, need to establish if upgrading to non-etch versions is permitted first. it might be a missioncritical server that needs all-stable stuff or something
22:12-!-coolset [] has joined #debian
22:12<goodger>Ben_Pang: so you do _not_ want any software that is not from Etch to be on your computer? if you install a version of reportbug from Lenny, you can probably remove reportbug
22:14<mike>howdo you tell what version yoru running?
22:14<Ben_Pang>goodger, are you mean that upgrade reportbug to version lenny first, and removing it againt~~
22:15<mike>Ben_pang: exactly whathes saying.. we will first help you upgrade and then remove it but we need your permission to try first
22:17<mike>goodger: is that a good enough of underdstandable ok for you =D
22:17<goodger>yeah, that's OK
22:17<goodger>Ben_Pang: what CPU architecture do you use?
22:17<Ben_Pang>goodger,i386, i using vmware
22:19<goodger>Ben_Pang: OK. download this package ( and install it with "dpkg -i reportbug_3.48_all.deb"
22:19<goodger>if it succeeds, "aptitude remove reportbug". otherwise, pastebin
22:19<Ben_Pang>goodger,I see
22:19<Ben_Pang>goodger,I'm tring it
22:19-!-freealan [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
22:21<mike>goodger: cant wait to have a good understanding of the command so i can trouble shoot linux boxes
22:21<mike>right now im only good with the windows os's so i jumped in headfirst on linux haha
22:21<goodger>I'm basically phobic of it
22:21<mike>well ive run a few different livecds and done ubuntu once or twice
22:22<Ben_Pang>goodger,mike: wrong "dpkg: regarding reportbug_3.48_all.deb....reportbug conflicts with python-central (<< 0.5.13)"
22:22<mike>goodger: if its conflicting cant we have him pull the conflicting package and its dependencies and reinstall them ?
22:22<goodger>Ben_Pang: install
22:23<goodger>mike: the actual problem appears to be in python-central. upgrading that package might fix it unless there is dependency hell
22:23<goodger>ah, it seems python-central only depends on python
22:24<mike>goodger: i know what you mean i went to use firefox but found out i had to upgrade my gtk and had to remove liek everything in the da,n system to do it -.-
22:24<Ben_Pang>goodger: success for python-central but failure reportbug
22:25<goodger>Ben_Pang: please pastebin
22:25<goodger>mike: yeah. this is life before package managers --- manual dependency resolution
22:25<goodger>we don't know how good we've got it --- there were no dependency-solving package managers in 1993
22:26<goodger>...or a similar time
22:26-!-Celelaptop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:26<Ben_Pang>goodger: here
22:27-!-tzafrir_laptop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:28<Ben_Pang>goodger: hey~upgrade python-central that can upgrade etch~
22:29<Ben_Pang>goodger: can upgrade etch ~
22:29<Ben_Pang>goodger: i can upgrade etch ~ not wrong againt
22:30<goodger>Ben_Pang: ok
22:30<Ben_Pang>goodger,mike: thanking
22:31<goodger>Ben_Pang: ok
22:31<mike>ben_pang, ok =
22:32<goodger>mike: PM?
22:32<mike>if youd liek to
22:33<Ben_Pang>goodger,mike: what are you from?
22:33<mike>ben_pang: i am from philadelphia pa, in the united states
22:34<goodger>Ben_Pang: I'm from England/United Kingdom/Great Britain
22:34<goodger>my country has many different names
22:35-!-reneger [] has joined #debian
22:36<goodger>though technically england is the country, the united kingdom is the state, and great britain is an island; the united kingdom was formerly known as the kingdom of great britain, which is why all americans call the country "Britain", apparently not realising that this name is not used officially for anything except the island
22:37<goodger>you can always tell when an American has written something if it contains the word "Britain" used in isolation to refer to a government
22:37<goodger>"Britain cuts interest rates!" etc.
22:37<Dracie>i don't know my terms even though I am half British
22:37-!-coolset [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
22:37<goodger>*bank of england* cuts interest rates
22:37<goodger>what's the other half?
22:38<goodger>and you live in the US?
22:38<Dracie>yeah its ok... not my favorite place
22:38<mike>same and i was born here =/
22:38<Ben_Pang>goodger,mike: I'm from Chinese, and i'm english is not disfluency
22:39-!-gravity [] has quit [Quit: sleep]
22:39-!-mode/#debian [+l 358] by debhelper
22:39<Dracie>you mean China?
22:39<mike>ben_pang: we can tell but you do an ok job getting what you need to say across
22:39<simonrvn>the anglos say 'China' for the country
22:39-!-Celelaptop [] has joined #debian
22:39<Dracie>cool, where do you live now Ben_Pang
22:39<goodger>no offence, but I would find that some sort of special kind of hell, to be an expatriot living in the US. I imagine everyone would ask me continually where I am from, particularly as my Oxford accent is so strong
22:40<goodger>you must have an interesting perspective on the country, with a british parent
22:40<Ben_Pang>Dracie,I'm live in China now,are you visit hare?
22:41<Dracie>yeah I do.. i talk to a lotta foreign people so i get my views... much of America is full of simple people as it seems
22:41<goodger>Ben_Pang: he means, where in china?
22:41<Dracie>Ben_Pang, No, it would be nice to visit china though
22:41<goodger>Dracie: :S
22:41<goodger>have you seen that list of US states by average IQ?
22:41<Dracie>is it bad?
22:41<Ben_Pang>Dracie,Hainan,you known it?
22:41<Dracie>Ben_Pang, not off the top of my head
22:41<goodger>mississipi's average is 88; no state's average is above 100
22:42<Dracie>that epic fails
22:42<simonrvn>you forget you americans are already visting foreign soil
22:42<goodger>the really disturbing thing happens if you arrange them in descending order, and colour them red/blue for mccain/obama
22:42<Ben_Pang>Hainan,you known it? or you may be known city Sanya
22:42<Dracie>goodger give me a city name in your timezone
22:43<goodger>Dracie: the UK has only one timezone, so you can have the most interesting city I know of --- berwick-upon-tweed
22:43<goodger>though that might technically be a town
22:43<Dracie>goodger, lol ok... i am adding it to my gnome clock
22:43<goodger>it's just UTC+0
22:43<Dracie>Ben_Pang, i found it in the gnome location database
22:43<goodger>or UTC+1 in the summer
22:43<goodger>if you've got it right, it will show 03:43
22:44<goodger>if you arrange the US states by descending order of IQ, the top half is blue, and the bottom red... which is quite intriguing at the very least
22:44-!-reneger [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:44<Dracie>i am in wisconsin
22:44<simonrvn>just tells me it's stratified by social class
22:44<Dracie>we value education very much here
22:44<mike>i wonder what my iq is
22:44<Dracie>me too
22:44<mike>ive never takin a test
22:45<Ben_Pang>I try installing Xen now
22:45<Dracie>Ben_Pang, unless you really need it don't bother, its troublesome
22:45<Dracie>try out qemu, virtual box, and vmware
22:45<goodger>simonrvn: properly administered IQ tests are independent of education and culture
22:45<simonrvn>very little actual useful data other than social inequities are rather large.
22:45<goodger>mine is 155. if you beat that, you win a prize
22:45<simonrvn>goodger: i disagree.
22:46<Dracie>goodger, where can i get an iQ test do you think?
22:46<Ben_Pang>Dracie, yes i try out vmware
22:46<Dracie>Ben_Pang, the only issue with vmware is it costs money and is nonfree
22:46<goodger>simonrvn: you don't get to disagree with that statement, it's a fact. properly administered IQ tests are independent. in my _opinion_, many of them are improperly administered, but not so much as you think
22:46<Dracie>I personally use qemu because it supports booting from another drive on my machine
22:47<goodger>Dracie: google for IQ test ^_^ see if you can find one by MENSA if possible
22:47<Dracie>so i boot my portable jumpdrive
22:47<mike>i dont know if i wanna know my iq i like to consider myself somewhat intelligent, and i dont think i need a test to tell me so
22:47<simonrvn>goodger: don't tell me what i should think, thanks.
22:47<Ben_Pang>Dracie, :)
22:47<goodger>simonrvn: besides, my IQ was tested at 155 and my parents were piss-poor at the time
22:48<Dracie>0 24 H in a D
22:48<Dracie>that seems like a silly question
22:48<goodger>Dracie: is it asking you to expand H and D to complete words?
22:48<Dracie>its like ewww
22:48<Dracie>does that prove anything?
22:48-!-mentor_ [~matthew@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:49<Dracie>I think not... that just means your on your toes and good with abbreviations
22:49-!-johns [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:49<goodger>it proves you know how long a day is, and possess the necessary intelligence to derive new information from old information
22:50<goodger>it could easily mean "24 horses in a ditch", but this would not be very patterny
22:50<goodger>I'll forgo the test since it's so late
22:50<goodger>actually I'm going to bed in ten minutes for the same reason
22:50<Dracie>pretty late
22:50<Dracie>here its just almost 10
22:51<goodger>yeah, I have to be up for an accounting exam at 1:30
22:51-!-Guest632 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:52<mike>its liek 11 oclock here
22:52-!-AzaTht [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
22:54<Dracie>mike you live where?
22:54<mike>dracie philadelphia pa.
22:54<goodger>Dracie: he said philadelphia
22:54-!-kalpik [~kalpik@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:54<Dracie>oh lol
22:54<Dracie>i went there once
22:55<Dracie>it was nice
22:55<Dracie>fun trip to go east
22:55<Dracie>i miss UK though
22:55<simonrvn>goodger: i used to think like you did wrt to that question, but i don't anymore. too often they're used to classify people negatively. anyway, have a good sleep.
22:55<Dracie>been there at least 10 times
22:55-!-Ananth123 [~Ananth@] has joined #debian
22:55<goodger>Dracie: where did you go in the UK?
22:55<Dracie>i remember going to cirencester and machester
22:56<Dracie>we went to many places
22:56<Dracie>i have family there
22:56<Dracie>i am horrible at UK geography
22:56<mike>i would love to vacation in the uk
22:56-!-eyesweasel [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:56<blast_hardcheese>quick question, is there a place that lists memory requirements for various versions of debian?
22:57<mike>alas money is tight here =/
22:57<blast_hardcheese>More importantly the kernels
22:57<goodger>mike: USD is currently its highest for at least five years against the pound...
22:57-!-eyesweasel [] has joined #debian
22:57<blast_hardcheese>I don't think I've got enough memory to run 2.4.18
22:57-!-superjet_busy [] has joined #debian
22:57<mike>goodger: haha im talking amoung my family i dont say im the poorest on the block but im not the richest either haha
22:58-!-freealan [] has joined #debian
22:59<Ben_Pang>I found info like "4gb seg fixup, process keepalived (pid 2433), cs:ip ..." on xen
22:59<gsimmons>blast_hardcheese: Refer to the Installation Guide (for Etch, see sections 2.5 and 3.4).
23:00-!-lfaraone [] has joined #debian
23:00<dondelelcaro>blast_hardcheese: the kernel requirements are actually pretty small; the major problem is how much space it takes for the dependency graph
23:00<lfaraone>Hi, is there a way to apply different PAM login rules based on the subnet of the source IP? (w/o writing a new module)
23:00<dondelelcaro>blast_hardcheese: if you have > 32M, you're fine
23:00<blast_hardcheese>dondelelcaro: I've got 8 megs of RAM
23:01<dondelelcaro>blast_hardcheese: you can probably run a custom kernel, but you won't be able to run any modern version of Debian without presenting the machine with a special source
23:01<lfaraone>blast_hardcheese: you're looking for an "embedded" distro, then.
23:01<lfaraone>blast_hardcheese: what's your platform?
23:01<blast_hardcheese>dondelelcaro: crap
23:01<dondelelcaro>(since it's not possible to resolve the dependency graph in 8M)
23:01<blast_hardcheese>lfaraone: 486
23:01<dondelelcaro>blast_hardcheese: why are you running on such a tiny machine?
23:02<blast_hardcheese>dondelelcaro: ...
23:02<blast_hardcheese>That's an odd question
23:02<Ananth123>blast_hardcheese: try the 1.4 series then....... they used to run fine 10+ yrs ago with my 486
23:02<dondelelcaro>I mean, if it's embedded, I could see it
23:02<blast_hardcheese>Ananth123: I've got 2.2 running fine with kernel 2.2.29
23:02<Ananth123>great :)
23:03<blast_hardcheese>It's just before Package management got used for installing the base system
23:03<lfaraone>blast_hardcheese: even then... my home router has enough RAM to run debian (32mb)
23:03<lfaraone>* dondelelcaro
23:03<dondelelcaro>lfaraone: yerp; it's almost impossible to find used 486s any more
23:04<blast_hardcheese>I'm looking for the 16 meg upgrade chip so I can actually have 20 megs
23:04<dondelelcaro>blast_hardcheese: any particular reason?
23:04<blast_hardcheese>dondelelcaro: 8 megs of ram is kind of limited
23:04<lfaraone>blast_hardcheese: is there a reason you can't troll "free" on craigslist for a machine with say... 128++ mb ram?
23:04<dondelelcaro>I mean, for $25 or so, you can easily find a relatively modern machine used
23:04<dondelelcaro>(free if you're willing to pick it up)
23:05<Ananth123>even p4 machines r quite cheap
23:05<blast_hardcheese>This is the machine I'm running on:
23:06-!-warrior25 [~andres@] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
23:06<blast_hardcheese>486 SX, 33mhz, 8 megs of ram, 2 gb HDD
23:06<dondelelcaro>ah; a toy
23:06<blast_hardcheese>I just bought two replacement batteries for it
23:06<dondelelcaro>anyway, you could actually install etch on that with 2.6, but you wouldn't be able to do much
23:06<blast_hardcheese>dondelelcaro: I suspect it could become more than that if I got it set up correctly
23:06<dondelelcaro>(you'd have to present it with a custom archive that only had the packages that you actually wanted to install)
23:07<dondelelcaro>but it's kind of a waste of time, even though it is a nice little machine
23:07<dondelelcaro>(since newer machines that are that size exist, and do way more)
23:07<mike>wow even still
23:07<mike>ive seen thing just a little bigger than that running a gig ram haha
23:08<Dracie>116 is my general IQ lol
23:08<Dracie>i epi fail :P
23:08<mike>dracie howd you figure that ouyt ?
23:08<mike>link me
23:08<blast_hardcheese>dondelelcaro: the only reason 2.4 is giving me problems is because when trying to load the initrd I get crap like: "/dev2/root is not a valid block device"
23:08-!-Holborn [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
23:09<Dracie>sorry can't
23:09<Dracie>i recieved an email
23:09<mike>if i pmed you my email would you mind sending it ?
23:09<dondelelcaro>yeah, the fujitsu U820/10 for an example...
23:09<Dracie>sure pm me
23:09<Dracie>dondelelcaro, i wish i had one of them
23:10<Dracie>mike, sure
23:10<blast_hardcheese>dondelelcaro: The newest toys are not always the coolest toys.
23:10<mike>blast i know
23:10<mike>im not saying it isnt cool =D id love to have one to mess around with haha
23:11<blast_hardcheese>mike: It's totally awesome
23:11<blast_hardcheese>I'm going to super-multiboot it
23:11<mike>blast_hardcheese yeah id love one haha im just saying i mean the one id get near me has wirless and all great if your goign away to scool bout the size of a paper back novel
23:12<dondelelcaro>Dracie: they're pretty nice; run Debian just fine
23:12<mike>lol how bigs the hd on it ?
23:12<blast_hardcheese>2gb, about to upgrade to 8gigs
23:13<blast_hardcheese>DOS/Win3.1, DOSJ/Win3.1J, Debian 2.2, Windows 95, Proprietary software that came on it, FreeBSD
23:13<mike>lol thats sweet haha
23:13<Dracie>dondelelcaro, yeah they are lovely devices the guy who works a local coffee shop has a u810
23:13-!-zevarito_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:14<mike>im working on an old deel for my mother i gotta figure out how to do a network install of linux
23:14<blast_hardcheese>Network installations are easy,
23:14<blast_hardcheese>if you look at dnsmasq it's got everything you need
23:14<Dracie>just get a copy of lenny netinst
23:14<blast_hardcheese>Built in DHCP/TFTP servers
23:14<blast_hardcheese>configuration is dead simple
23:15-!-eljefe_ [] has joined #debian
23:15<mike>yeah i figured
23:15<mike>shes been looking for a laptop just for work so im gonna help her out hahah
23:15-!-methodman [~methodman@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:15-!-methodman [~methodman@] has joined #debian
23:16<blast_hardcheese>Oh, that's a good point, I'm also going to have gPXE images for my PCMCIA network card on the PC110, so that even that thing can netboot :D
23:16<mike>shes a windows person though im trying to get her sould on debian or at least ubuntu
23:16<blast_hardcheese>(It'll be a stretch netbooting in so little RAM... I wish I could find the 16 meg upgrade card)
23:16-!-linux_stu [] has joined #debian
23:17<Dracie>no flipped free hotmail pop account??
23:17<mike>how do i tell which version of debian im runnign my dad did the instal while i was at work haha
23:17<mike>im just curious i believe its lenny but im not sure
23:18<blast_hardcheese>mike: uname -a'll tell you what kernel version,
23:18<linux_stu>in gnome, how can i configure NetworkManager to handle my network connections and nm-applet to be autostarted?
23:18-!-macman [] has joined #debian
23:19<Dracie>linux_stu, add nm-applet to your session
23:19-!-eljefe [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:19<Dracie>system -> prefrences -> sessions
23:19-!-thomas [~thomas@PPPOE-05-0186.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:19-!-dvs [] has joined #debian
23:19<mike>blast_hardsheese, just brought up a little arrow no info lol
23:19<Dracie>and go to system -> administation -> networking
23:20<blast_hardcheese>mike: Just switch to a virtual terminal, they'll all tell you
23:20<macman>can anyone help me .. im trying to get injection working on my broadcom card .. im reading but no luck
23:21<mike>is there any way to get that 3d gui from ubuntu on debian ?
23:22<goodger>!tell mike about compiz-fusion
23:23<mike>ahh thats the name i was trying to remember
23:23<goodger>!tell mike about compiz
23:24<mike>i could never configure that shit right anyway
23:24-!-Guest580 [~nohost@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:24<Dracie>mike, get compiz
23:24<mike>dracie im thinking about it
23:24<mike>so far i liek debian more than ubuntu
23:24<mike>alittle more workinto getting my stuff to work but it runs cleaner
23:24<Dracie>personally i am not a fan of compiz causes issues with pager, video playback, 3d programs (games), and is kinda heavy
23:24<Dracie>if you just want shadows get xcompmgr
23:25<Dracie>or if your using xfwm or metacity you can enable their compositors
23:25<Dracie>i have a little script that toggles the metacity compositor
23:25<Dracie>i use ubunt uright now btw
23:25<mike>i think im using metacity
23:25<Dracie>using gnome?
23:26<mike>my dad wanted me to go kde but im not a fan of it
23:26<Dracie>gconftool -st boolean /apps/metacity/general/compositing_manager true
23:26<Dracie>try that
23:26<Dracie>it'll enable compositor
23:26<Dracie>to disable run the last command with false
23:26<Dracie>it is cpu intensive though jsyk
23:26<mike>yeah thats why idk if i wanna run it haha
23:26<mike>i mean im only running a dual 2.0
23:27<goodger>unless you have hardware-accelerated graphics
23:27<Dracie>oh its dual core thats good
23:27<Dracie>i got a dual core machine its fine
23:27<Dracie>goodger, compiz is for eye candy only IMO not for usability
23:27<mike>nah i have an intel 945g its supposed to be software accelerated
23:27-!-goshawk [~goshawk@] has joined #debian
23:27<mike>they say it support pixels and shaders 2.0 but they dont
23:28<goodger>mike: metacity compositing is not CPU-intensive, particularly if you have hardware-accelerated graphics
23:28<mike>intels cheap...
23:28<Dracie>mike go this glxinfo | grep direct
23:28<Dracie>goodger, it uses 2d accel onthe card?
23:28<goodger>it also does not require pixel shader 2.0, unlike windows vista
23:28<Dracie>i didn't know that lol
23:28<Dracie>btw i am talking about the 2d metacity compositor
23:28<Dracie>not compiz
23:28<goodger>it runs fine without the acceleration on my athlon 64 3800 (single-core!)
23:28<goodger>yes, so am I
23:29<Dracie>making sure
23:29<mike>says its not found
23:29<Dracie>you don't have mesa-utils
23:29<mike>goodger im also a gamer haha
23:29<Dracie>apt-get install mesa-utils
23:29-!-duraperidol [~nohost@] has joined #debian
23:29<Dracie>the thing i miss in debian is tab package completion for apt-get
23:29-!-lfaraone [] has left #debian []
23:30-!-duraperidol is now known as Guest727
23:30<goodger>Dracie: you underestimate the kludginess of that particular hack
23:30<mike>its installed
23:30<goodger>mike, well, you will want the acceleration installed then --- OS drivers are released by intel so it should be installed by default
23:30<Dracie>goodger, yeah i really don't know any of its inter workings
23:31<mike>the only thing i liek more about ubuntu is the ease of use configuring my wireless
23:31<mike>the restricted hardware manager let me skip using ndiswrapper
23:31<Dracie>should have the same experiance if your using gnome
23:31<mike>i used the bcmxxcuter
23:31<mike>and it downloaded installed and used the driver for me lol
23:31<Dracie>curses for nonfree firmware
23:32<dmoerner>that's in debian as well
23:32-!-Katt [] has quit [Server closed connection]
23:32-!-Katt [] has joined #debian
23:32<mike>i figured
23:32<dmoerner>Dracie: install bash-completion and source it in .bashrc
23:32<mike>the 2 systems dont seem far apart
23:32<mike>i have a kde ubuntu laying around to i boot them when windows fails
23:33<Dracie>windows is kinda difficult to maintain
23:33<Dracie>dmoerner, k thx
23:33<mike>lol nah ig ot good at it
23:33-!-chealer [~chealer@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:33<mike>i work on windows systems for friends its not all that difficult
23:33<Dracie>in windows you have to be a lot more actively secure
23:34<Dracie>in linux you just don't give out your root password
23:34<Dracie>and your pretty much set
23:34-!-Steveiscool [] has joined #debian
23:34<goodger>dmoerner: they refer to ubuntu's hack wherein tab-completion is available on apt-get commands, in the manner "apt-get install icewea[tab]"
23:34<mike>im wondering how long itll be before linux gains a big enough chucnk of users to make windows worry
23:35<Dracie>mike, imo it already has, but most users are just like oh... this is so cool, lets stick it to the man
23:35<goodger>mike: ubuntu is heading that way already
23:35-!-dvs [] has quit [Quit: See ya!]
23:35<mike>dracie, goodger ill stick with debian ive had more luck here than anywhere else
23:35<Dracie>i just installed it on a friends computer
23:36<mike>i may dual boot the two in the future
23:36<Dracie>mike, thats good to hear
23:36<Dracie>windows won't even install on my machine
23:36<mike>why not?
23:36<Dracie>bloody BSOD
23:36<goodger>there are four classes of computer user: people like me, people like my mother, people like my boss, and people like my friend philip
23:36<Dracie>it hung first then i fixed that, and i got BSOD while loading windows installer
23:36<mike>i wonder which type i am
23:36<Dracie>so i don't bother
23:36<dmoerner>goodger: yes. that is present in bash-completion.
23:36<goodger>mike: a combination of philip and me
23:36-!-gutocarvalho [~gutocarva@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:36<goodger>dmoerner: it is? I've not noticed it...
23:37<mike>haha classic bsod hahahah
23:37<dmoerner>it most definitely is
23:37-!-linux_stu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:37<mike>you ever seen the 98 video where windos bsods in the middle of a presantation?
23:37<goodger>of course
23:37<mike>thts classic
23:37<Dracie>i h8 hotmail no free pop
23:38<goodger>...ah, dmoerner, I apologise; it's only available for apt-get
23:38<mike>man windows isnt worth the cd or dvd they write it to
23:38-!-perlsyntax [] has joined #debian
23:38<Dracie>windows makes good $$
23:38<perlsyntax>can anyone tell me how to install a debain live cd to the hard drive?
23:38<Dracie>for a instable insecure product
23:38<goodger>...anyway, debian appeals to people like me, debian stable appeals particularly to my boss, windows XP appeals to my mother, and ubuntu/vista appeal to philip
23:38<Dracie>perlsyntax, debian live? get the installer cd
23:38<mike>beecause they sell to people whod rather have the problem fixed by another person rather than read and dl it themselves...
23:39<dmoerner>goodger: it works with aptitude as well :)
23:39<perlsyntax>where that
23:39<perlsyntax>Dracie, where do i get that one?
23:39<Dracie>perlsyntax, i am not sure what cd you are talking about?
23:39<perlsyntax>the debain iso
23:39<goodger>dmoerner: I'm trying and it's not working...
23:40<Dracie>i should really learn a programming language
23:40-!-Scott_ [] has left #debian []
23:40*goodger fiddles with config
23:40<Dracie>prolly start with python
23:40<mike>i think its reidculous that people will go pay a tech a couple hundred dollar to fix a problem they could fix with 1 min of reading on theyre own....
23:40<mike>its horrible
23:40<goodger>Dracie: I suggest python
23:40<perlsyntax>what better the dvd or the cd iso?
23:40<Dracie>goodger, well said... python is used in a lot of apps
23:40<Dracie>perlsyntax, just get the first cd
23:40-!-tzafrir_laptop [] has joined #debian
23:40-!-hanthana [~hanthana@] has joined #debian
23:40<Dracie>perlsyntax, if you have packages you want to install later you can with apt
23:40<mike>perlsyntax, dvd worked fine for me
23:41<perlsyntax>just the first dvd
23:41<Dracie>dvd is only good if your have an unnetworked computer that needs a good repo
23:41<Dracie>apt-cd is awesome
23:41-!-pabs [] has joined #debian
23:41<mike>dracie, figured but remember i didnt know what the network card support was like in debian i had no way to tell if my cards would work
23:41<goodger>perlsyntax: the first CD is fine
23:41<goodger>or you can use a netinst disc which downloads exactly what you want
23:42<perlsyntax>i just want the debain upto date
23:42<Dracie>netinst disc ftw
23:42<goodger>right, I'm going to bed, it's too late
23:42<goodger>good night
23:42<Dracie>night goodger
23:42<mike>allright goodger thank you for the help earlier
23:43<mike>i feel liek playing some guitar
23:43<goodger>that's ok
23:43<Dracie>thats what this channel does =]
23:43<pabs>how does one enable ip forwarding for just one network interface?
23:45<mike>note to self never just run find command in root directory without pointing it somewhere Xd
23:45<perlsyntax>So the dvd would be the best bet to get i see.
23:45<mike>perlsyntax, id go with the dvd
23:45<Dracie>pabs, there are tutorials for that... google ipforwarding debian
23:46<mike>perlsyntax, some of my friends here suggest the cd =] i can only go with what ive used haha
23:46<mike>google = best friend
23:46<perlsyntax>it like a 6 hour download
23:46<Dracie>i am not sure what i should put on my jumpdrive for live linux
23:46<Dracie>perlsyntax, what kind of internet you have?
23:46-!-yhlfh [~yhlfh@] has joined #debian
23:47<mike>dracie, have ever heard of d.s.l. ?
23:47<mike>dracie great for a jump drive install
23:47<Dracie>yeah but DSL is kinda minimal... its ok for a toy, but size isn't a constraint
23:47<Dracie>perlsyntax, just get netinst
23:47*goodger has DSL
23:47<mike>tried knnopix?
23:47<goodger>perlsyntax: use the network install CD, it is only a 180M download. it will download the files you need during the install procedure
23:48<pabs>Dracie: the ones I've found so far only talk about enabling forwarding for all interfaces
23:48*goodger is unable to get cable in his area
23:48<perlsyntax>but is that up to date?
23:48<Dracie>pabs, hmmm
23:48<mike>liek he siad it will update as it installs buddy =D
23:48<goodger>perlsyntax: yes, it downloads the latest versions of everything
23:48<perlsyntax>i go with that
23:48-!-perlsyntax [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:48<dpkg>A satisfied customer? We should have him stuffed!
23:49<goodger>oh yes!!! someone implemented my suggestion!
23:49<mike>anyone listen to bfmv?
23:49<goodger>right, I'm going to bed now, having filled myself with excitement hormones due to my suggestion being implemented
23:49<dondelelcaro>pabs: I'd imagine you'd use brctl, but I've never done it
23:51<mike>so why is trap so trippy ? i mean my nonfree seems to crash my browser everynow and again
23:51<mike>why cant we just repackage a .deb provided by flash to fit us
23:51<mike>flash** lol
23:51<Dracie>debian live looks nice.. but its all packaged weird
23:51<goodger>mike: nonfree license forbids redistribution or modification
23:51<dondelelcaro>mike: uh... that's what flashplugin-nonfree is?
23:51<Dracie>nonfree is witchcraft
23:51<panthera>Dracie: care to elaborate?
23:52-!-TheDude [] has joined #debian
23:52<mike>yeah but it blows seriouslly like i had to fight with it to get my audio working and then it crashes my browser
23:52-!-TheDude [] has quit []
23:52<Dracie>panthera, like its just weird, the usb-hdd package is an iso... i wanted an archive.. i couldn't even figure out how to mount the thing..
23:52<panthera>Dracie: about 'its all packaged weird'
23:52<Dracie>some sort of 0x83 iso
23:53<panthera>Dracie: the usb-hdd is a hd image, not an iso.
23:53<Dracie>i know
23:53<Dracie>sorry thats what i meant
23:53-!-Ben_Pang_ [~wenbin-pa@] has joined #debian
23:53<panthera>why is that disturbing you?
23:53<pabs>dondelelcaro, Dracie: figured it out; had to enable forwarding on the outgoing interface too: echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/wlan0/forwarding ; echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/usb0/forwarding
23:53<panthera>this is how it has to be in order to be usefull. you cannot put a iso on an usb stick and boot from it.
23:53<dondelelcaro>pabs: ah, useful
23:54-!-Deuterium [~AlCapone@] has joined #debian
23:55<Dracie>panthera, is there a packaged version of an archive that i can put on my drive like slax
23:55-!-johns [] has joined #debian
23:55<Dracie>i mean in the sense you can just move it to the jumpdrive and make it bootable
23:55<panthera>Dracie: how about loop mounting the hdd image and just do that?
23:56<Dracie>i couldn't get my machine to mount it lol
23:56-!-meoblast001 [] has quit [Quit: meoquit]
23:56-!-Ben_Pang [~wenbin-pa@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:57<Dracie>so i dunno.. maybe i'll just install debian and make it live
23:57<panthera>Dracie: you've to use losetup first, and then mount -o loop
23:57<panthera>on the other hand, you can also use the iso has a basis,
23:57<Dracie>you mean loopback? my machine has that setup already i am using ubungu xD
23:57<Dracie>couldn't i just install debian and then use the scripts tehy provide
23:57<panthera>which you can loop mount directly without the need of losetup.
23:58<Dracie>i dunno i think i just didn't have the right filesystem moduyle loaded
23:58<Dracie>my stupid kernel also has an old lzma module
23:58<Dracie>i think
---Logclosed Fri Jan 09 00:00:05 2009