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#debian IRC Logs for 2009-02-18

---Logopened Wed Feb 18 00:00:29 2009
---Daychanged Wed Feb 18 2009
00:00<GT>Oh, my apologies. I neglected to mention that I have a separate /boot partition on sda1.
00:00<GT>I pointed both the installer for Ubuntu and the installer for Debian to it. Debian overwrote the menu.lst there.
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00:01<kop>GT: That is bad, because any files with the same name will be overwritten. You may have wrecked your Ubuntu kernels etc.
00:02<GT>Hmmm, that is most certainly very bad.
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00:02<GT>What's the point of having a separate /boot partition, then? When I wanted to partition my drive, everything I read seemed to say it would make this sort of thing easier.
00:03<kop>GT: You may have gotten lucky, but in any case you don't want to use the same partitions for both operating systems, at least not anything with programs on it. Sharing data is ok.
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00:03<GT>Hmm. Well, then...
00:04<timm>hey GT
00:04<kop>GT: You have a separate boot partition so that the BIOS can see the whole partition so that the boot loader (grub) is able to read your kernel into ram and start it. It works around bios limitations.
00:04<GT>Uhm, hi timm.
00:04<timm>sorry, just realised you were getting an answer, not giving it :P
00:05<GT>So, how would things work out if I had two partitions here, each with their own /boot?
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00:05<kop>GT: Bios sucks.
00:05<GT>...Elaborate? o.o
00:06<kop>GT: There's lots of limitations and legacy stuff and stuff that's not used in bios. It's one reason wny machines take so long to boot. But, that's OT at the moment.
00:06<kop>GT: If you had two boot partitions, one would have the menu.lst that's used at boot to give you a grub menu. The grub menu would load kernels off of one or the other boot partition, depending on which menu item you chose.
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00:08<GT>Hmmm... So, how about this: One boot partition, to contain the menu.lst to be used, and independent boot subdirectories in each of the OSes?
00:08<kop>GT: It would be slightly annoying, because whatever menu.lst is _not_ used, would be automatically updated by kernel upgrades and such when you booted into that OS. You'd have to copy those changes to the other menu.lst. (Unless the programs that muck with menu.lst play nice with each other, and they might, in which case you could just soft link the one that's not used to the one that's used and have the one that's used be automatically updated.()
00:09<timm>hey, um, I have a question about /etc, if anyone's free?
00:10<kop>GT: That would work, if you could talk the debian and the ubuntu people into changing where their kernels are stored. You might be able to fake things with softlinks, somehow. It's not apparent how.
00:10<kop>!tell timm -about ask
00:10<timm>okay, well
00:11<timm>how do I move /etc somewhere else? say to another partition, or just to test to /etc.old, without killing the system?
00:11<timm>will a softlink work?
00:12<kop>timm : /etc/ has to be in the root partition /. _Some_ things inside can be softlinked. But other's have to be there when the root partition is mounted so that the startup process can read what's there before the other partitions are mounted.
00:12<kop>timm : You can copy it for backups and stuff.
00:13<timm>but I mean, is it possible to move /etc so say /mnt/sda1/etc then link that back to /etc?
00:13<dpkg>Debian follows the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard. The filesystem is categorized by purpose, not application. This allows, for example, the easy and efficient deployment of a read-only /usr area across a number of thin clients. See or install the 'debian-policy' package (/usr/share/doc/debian-policy/fhs/*), or
00:13<kop>timm: You can do that, but the system probably won't boot.
00:14<timm>yeah, I just tried that, it died :P
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00:14<timm>well, I know you can install /etc on a seperate partition then you install debian
00:14<timm>so there must be a way around it
00:14<kop>timm : How about telling us why you want /etc/ on a separate partition. What problem are you trying to solve?
00:15<GT>Hmmm. Well, I don't really feel comfortable trying to weave a big web of soft links, so how would it be determined which menu.lst would be used if they both had their own /boot's, and there was nothing else?
00:15<timm>well, I'm just trying not to use too much space on the drive I installed it on, and also for when I reinstall, so I don't lose the configs
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00:15<timm>I know I can just make a backup, but I'd prefer doing it this way, if possible
00:15<kop>timm: You can always make a copy, or a copy of the whole / partition. You probably want to read about lvm if you're worried about partitioning.
00:16<timm>large volume management? why? :\
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00:17<kop>tmm: logical volume management. These days you can change the size of partitions while the system is running -- if you use lvm and ext4. So, you don't need to worry about making partitions the wrong size or running out of space, assuming there's some free space on some physical drive.
00:17<timm>thing is, I can move and hardlink /home and /usr just fine, but how do I get init to look somewhere other than /etc/inittab?
00:18<kop>timm : You don't, without re-writing the boot process.
00:18<timm>ah, but that's the thing, it's only a 40GB drive, that's why I want to move it onto a completely seperate drive
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00:19<kop>timm : LVM let's you make many drives look like one. It does not matter that one is small.
00:19<BillGates>my ubuntu not starting
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00:19<kop>!tell BillGates -about ubuntu
00:19<timm>oh? I thought only raid could do that?
00:19<kop>timm : Nope.
00:20<timm>okay, well, I'll give that a go, thanks
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00:20<BillGates>!tell kop -about linux
00:20<timm>I'll probably just be content with leaving /etc where it is and moving /home and /usr
00:20<kop>timm: Often lvm and raid are both used.
00:20<BillGates>ubuntu is debian
00:20<BillGates>just better verison
00:20<timm>let's not start a debian/ubuntu argument :P
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00:21<timm>oh, by the way, kop, what do I need for ext4 in debian sid?
00:22<kop>timm: Dunno sid. But I think lenny uses it by default, so....
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00:23<timm>hmmm, coz when I use GParted it only has ext2/3, no ext4
00:23<adb>no , default is ext3 in lenny
00:23<kop>adb: Oops.
00:23<timm>yeah, I thought ext4 was the new one only in the unstable kernel?
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00:26<timm>so yeah, what do I need to get ext4? what packages?
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00:26<kop>I suspect BillGates has messed with the 'linux' factoid. What now?
00:26<adb>we may use mkfs.ext4 in lenny too , but not recomened for server or so
00:27<timm>no GUI for creating ext4, though?
00:27<adb> *recommended
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00:28<dpkg>ext4 is, like, a filesystem that is backward compatible with <ext3>, but also adds new features such as support for volumes up to 1 exabyte (1024 petabytes) and added extent support. Support for ext4 filesystem features included in 'e2fsprogs' since 1.41~WIP-2008-06-17-1.
00:29<adb>timm: ^^^
00:30<timm>making one now :P
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00:31<timm>it can't mount it now, says ext4 is unknown
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00:35*Supaplex nom nom noms on skittles
00:35<timm>yeah, that's right, I have 2.6.26-1, needs 2.6.28
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00:36<user01>lenny is released?
00:36<timm>lenny is
00:36<timm>been using till yesterday
00:37<timm>now, how do I get 2.6.28 kernel?
00:37<kop>timm : If you need a gui to make a fs, you shouldn't be running sid.
00:37<Supaplex>hahaha :)
00:37<timm>I don't need, just prefer, coz I have no idea what I'm doing otherwise :P
00:37<Supaplex>especially now
00:38<GT>Well, I guess until I can get my Ubuntu install working properly again, I'm using Debian...
00:38<Supaplex>why wait? just format all you love now, and get over the heartache of disaster all the sooner.
00:38<GT>Oh, well.
00:38<user01>is there a command for upgrading from etch? i dont upgrade that often :)
00:38<kop>GT: (He didn't mean you.)
00:39<kop>user01 : You want the release notes at
00:39<Supaplex>user01: release notes or /msg dpkg etch->lenny
00:39<GT>Who? That was just an off remark before I finally sign off for the night.
00:39<GT>Err, morning.
00:39<kop>GT: Backups. That's what they're for.
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00:40*Supaplex wonders when his 4TB of drives will show up for some raid lovelyness
00:40<GT>Ahh. Well, now I'm confused. so, I shall run away. To bed, even!
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00:41*kop wonders how to fit drives into a case. More than 4 is always a huge hassle it seems.
00:42<Supaplex>you buy a case that supports multiple drives of course :)
00:42<kop>GT: Grub2 may have an "include" so you wouldn't have to worry about manually updating.
00:42<kop>Supaplex : I used to use external scsi enclosures, but have given up the expense.
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00:43<Supaplex>I'm beta testing a new chassis design, but I need the drives (8x500 G) first.
00:44<kop>Supaplex : Wheeeeeeee!
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00:54<user01>if i switch everything to stable instead of etch and do an apt-get dist-upgrade it should be ok right?
00:57<kop>user01 : Wrong. For many reasons. Did you read the release notes?
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00:58<user01>this is not the same thing as Debian GNU/Linux 5.0 released February 14th, 2009
00:58<user01>i take it
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00:59<Asteroid345>I am trying to setup my wireless router... what is the WEP ??? and where do I set the wireless apssword?
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01:01<timm>the WEP Key should be the wireless password
01:01<user01>kop, d'oh i thought upgrading from one stable to the next in debian was easy, this is like 20 pages
01:01<timm>and you set that when you set up your wireless
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01:01<Supaplex>Asteroid345: man interfaces. search for wireless to find the docs on settings.
01:02<Asteroid345>timm, it asks me for 26 character key!\
01:02<Asteroid345>it cant be right, I mean 26 characters for a password?
01:02<timm>yup, so make one up :P
01:02<timm>it's hex, by the way
01:02<timm>so it ranges from 0-F
01:02<timm>0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, A, B, C, D, E, F
01:02<Asteroid345>so when I willbe connecting to router, I will be entering hex as password?
01:02<timm>some have the option of an ASCII key
01:03<timm>also, if you don't want a 26 character key, I think there's an 8 character key
01:03<timm>or was it 10
01:03<timm>or something
01:03<timm>but it's less secure, because there's less characters
01:03<user01>kop, ill just cancel the downloads and maybe do a fresh install tomorrow when its not like 2am
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01:04<timm>asteroid345: you're probably best off looking up the manual for your router on the manufacturer's website
01:04<Supaplex>but 2:05am is the best time to install. ;)
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01:05<timm>2am is the best time to accidently type rm -r / :P
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01:05<leo_>timm, it's a iscontinued one, couldnt find the manual, but you have already helped me. thanks a lot mate
01:06<kop>user01 : If you want the short version
01:06<kop>!tell user01 -about etch->lenny
01:06<timm>no problems, but in short, you enter the key on the WAP, then the same thing on the computer you're trying to connect from
01:06<leo_>timm, just a quick question, there is an opton to enable 802.1X, what is that?
01:07<timm>I don't actually know that much, but it's either authentication or encryption, can't remember which
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01:07<Supaplex>leo_: it's authentication related
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01:08<timm>so, kop, how would I go about upgrading from kernel 2.6.26 to 2.6.28?
01:08<dpkg>To compile a kernel The Debian Way(tm) "apt-get install kernel-package build-essential libncurses5-dev" and follow the instructions in /usr/share/doc/kernel-package/README.gz; You should also ask me about <make-kpkg> and <kp mantra>, or just, or <kernel build-deps>
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01:09<paistis>!kp mantra
01:09<dpkg>it has been said that kp mantra is make-kpkg clean ; export VER=$(date +'%Y%m%d') NAMEEXT="-$(hostname)-$(dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_ARCH)"; make-kpkg --revision=$VER --append-to-version=$NAMEEXT --rootcmd fakeroot kernel_image modules_image . Add --initrd before kernel_image if you need an initrd.
01:10<BillGates>wouldnt it be easier
01:10<BillGates>to just click a GUI
01:10<BillGates>then type all that?
01:10<paistis>just compile ja copy the files
01:10<Supaplex>BillGates: yeah. it's called stick with the release you're on.
01:11<kop>BillGates : Did you mess with the 'linux' factoid?
01:11<BillGates>do you fear the GUI?
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01:12<Supaplex>I don't
01:12<paistis>fear of GUI, sounds like a movie
01:12<kop>BillGates : Yes. It keeps changing. I don't want to waste my life re-learning how to do the same thing again and again.
01:12<timm>okay, well, where do I GET 2.6.28? :P
01:12<Supaplex>timm: you read the whole how to already?
01:13<timm>nop :P
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01:14<jm_>kernel team has preliminary 2.6.28 kernel images available
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01:15<timm>jm_: where, though?
01:15<Supaplex>timm: humm the doc mentions how to get the source, but only for sources in a repo. is where the Linux source is
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01:16<timm>coz yeah, the 2.6.28 kernel isn't in the debian repo yet, I don't think
01:16<d3co>more lenny's repository pls!
01:16<kop>timm, Supaplex : In fact, the docs mention too.
01:17<timm>kop: yeah, if I actually read the whole thing :P
01:18*Supaplex has more usb sticks than ports to plug them into
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01:22<Astero1D>I just plugged in a wireless adapter into my debian (while still being connected with cable). What do I need to do to configure and use the wireless adapter(usb adapter)
01:22<jm_>Astero1D: follow the wiki to identify the chipset
01:25<BillGates>thats what you need
01:25<BillGates>or a vm like vmware that shows a very common adapter even those it intefaces with your real one fine
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01:27<chealer>BillGates: ndiswrapper is generally not needed for that
01:27*kop thinks that BillGates is here to troll and give bad advice.
01:28<timm>considering his name, are you surprised? :P
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01:28<d3co>I get it!! thks
01:29<Supaplex>!tell Astero1D -about wireless
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01:29<kop>I also believe that BillGates has messed with at least 1 factoid, "linux".
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01:30<dpkg>i heard linux is closed
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01:31<BillGates>how is it not needed
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01:31<BillGates>debian still fails to recognize many new wireless usb adapters
01:31<BillGates>including my 6+ year old linksys 1
01:31<BillGates>ndiswrapper lets you use windows drivers to get it to work
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01:41<rafaaran>hi, i'm trayin to configure samba. What means ; before in the lines?
01:41<rafaaran>is it a comment???
01:41<timm>it means it's a comment
01:42<rafaaran>ok, thanks
01:42<rafaaran>what is the diference with #?
01:43<timm>none, I believe
01:43<timm>what are you trying to do anyway, just add a share?
01:43<k6orj>anyone know if there is an easy to manage my wifi connections on lenny?
01:44<timm>k6orj: if you have it installed, go to System > Preferences > Network Manager Editor
01:44<timm>I'm not sure what package it is, though, if you don't have it installed
01:44<d3co>lookup in the cache for samba
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01:45<simonrvn>rafaaran: one is # the other is ;
01:45<rafaaran>i'm trying to configure samba pdc for windows clients
01:45<d3co>radar wifi
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01:45<timm>samba should by default work with windows clients
01:46<simonrvn>ask in #samba on freenode
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01:46<k6orj>timm that must be in gnome?
01:46<rafaaran>yes, but i need to customize my network
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01:46<timm>ah, yes, sorry, I'm using gnome. Are you using KDE?
01:46<simonrvn>rafaaran: ask in #samba on freenode
01:47<k6orj>timm sorry I forgot to mention that.
01:47<rafaaran>ok ok, my cuestion is resolve now, thanks to all
01:47<timm>that's alright, but I have no idea how to do it in KDE then :P
01:48<k6orj>timm I think I installed that but can't find it in KDE
01:49<timm>hmm, I know in gnome it's on the top panel, at the right, it looks like the computers network icon from windoze
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01:51<timm>k6orj: do you have the option of logging into gnome?
01:51<k6orj>timm I am thinking the same thing.
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01:52<timm>you should only need gnome to set it up, then you can switch back to KDE
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01:54<d3co>xfce4 too :)
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01:59<TuxMex>Hi, there :) Somebody can tell me how install a new language in my Debian Lenny?
01:59<jackyf>TuxMex: new language for what?
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02:00<TuxMex>To the system...
02:01<TuxMex>I installed Lenny with a netinst CD, it got GNOME... so I installed KDE, with apt-get, but it just installed the english language, and I would want to install spanish
02:02<jm_>TuxMex: enable the locale
02:02<sep>TuxMex, apt-cache search kde| grep i18n
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02:06<TuxMex>Sorry, I'm just a mini-newbie heheh... what you mean jm_? what is that for, sep?
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02:07<chealer>BillGates: most cards are supported by native drivers
02:08<jdee25>u got kde
02:08<jdee25>or gnome
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02:09<chealer>k6orj: there's no easy way to do that, no. knetworkmanager *might* help
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02:09<TuxMex>The netinst CD, installed for default GNOME (in spanish)... so I use apt-get to install KDE, but KDE comes in english for default
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02:11<chealer>TuxMex: there's no methodical way to enable a language. you first need to enable the locale, then you may need to language packages.
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02:11<dpkg>Use `dpkg-reconfigure locales' to get it up and running. This generates locale definitions and also edits /etc/environment (in Sarge) or /etc/default/locale (Etch, Lenny) which sets the $LANG environment variable at login time.
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02:13<blarson>!tell TuxMex about es
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02:14<blarson>TuxMex: you may of course continue here in english.
02:15<chealer>dpkg: locales =~ s#/etc/environment (in Sarge) or /etc/default/locale (Etch, Lenny)#/etc/default/locale#
02:15<dpkg>OK, chealer
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02:17<chealer>TuxMex: s/need to language packages/need to install language packages/
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02:19<mitnick>to open-ssh good
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02:26<Supaplex>!pciid [1000:0059]
02:26<dpkg>egrep -i --color `echo 1000:0059 | sed 's/:/.*/'` /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/modules.alias
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02:30<amphi>handy command
02:31<Supaplex>quite :)
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02:31<Supaplex>small caveat is, you have to feed it the brackets too. it was a pain to create. I went through about 20 versions until I found the one I needed
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02:34<enouf>yeah - i recall that one, but always forget how to use/trigger the bot to spit it out, so i use my own ctrl-r pcimap in my own shell to recall and use my prior commands
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02:35<enouf>then i just plugin the numbers
02:35<enouf>~$ grep '106b.*0032' /lib/modules/2.6.26-1-686/modules.pcimap
02:36<dpkg>well, lspci is a PCI utility to list all PCI devices. It requires kernel 2.1.82 or better. In the pciutils package, or see pciids, or ask me about <pciid>
02:36<dpkg>To locate the kernel module(s) supporting your hardware, run lspci -nn, and ask me about <pciid 00:1b.0 Audio device ... [8086:284b] ...> Where [8086:284b] is the vendor+device id of your hardware. Results should be similar to <hcl>, but uses your local /lib/modules/*/modules.alias to guess. Some hardware uses alternate means of detection: beware of some false positives+negatives.
02:37<enouf>put something in there about lspci -nn output being short and sweet - yet contains the pciid too
02:37<Supaplex>dpkg: pciid =~ s/run/run lspci -k (lenny+), or /
02:37<dpkg>OK, Supaplex
02:37<dpkg>To locate the kernel module(s) supporting your hardware, run lspci -k (lenny+), or lspci -nn, and ask me about <pciid 00:1b.0 Audio device ... [8086:284b] ...> Where [8086:284b] is the vendor+device id of your hardware. Results should be similar to <hcl>, but uses your local /lib/modules/*/modules.alias to guess. Some hardware uses alternate means of detection: beware of some false positives+negatives.
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02:43<matt0>I get an "archive not supported" error message when trying to open .deb packages in lenny?
02:43<matt0>I've tried 4 different packages
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02:44<jm_>yes you do
02:44<matt0>Yes, yes I do.
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02:47<holtind>Hi. I woulld like to mount QNX 6.4 partitions. Is it possible?
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02:47<jm_>holtind: kernel supports qnx4 fs, if that works ...
02:48<TuxMex>Thanks all, I'm trying dpkg-reconfigure locales :)
02:49<TuxMex>Anybody knows about some problem with Iceweasel?
02:49<TuxMex>It seems to works very slow
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02:50<jm_>all the time? it's relatively snappy for me after starting it, but it gets horrible after 14 days
02:52<matt0>Is iceweasel just firefox re-branded?
02:52<jm_>more or less
02:53<TuxMex>Well, i'm not shure... I was using Firefox at Ubuntu and Kubuntu... I have just installed Debian yesterdar... and Iceweasel is working very slow
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02:57<jm_>well define slow
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02:59<TuxMex>It looks like if I had not too much RAM
03:04<TuxMex>For example, passing beetween tabs, it works slowly... while, if I do the same thing with Konkeror, this other navegator works normal
03:05<jm_>yeah XUL is slow shit
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03:06<TuxMex>Sorry, I don't understand some things xD
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03:06<jm_>then again, it shouldn't be 10 times slower - you can check how much swap is in use and use vmstat when using iceweasel
03:09<TuxMex>It is not possible to install de original Firefox in Debian, right?
03:09<BillGates>that's funny if true, as majority of firefox developers are linux geeks
03:10<jm_>TuxMex: it is, but there's no point
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03:10<TuxMex>Sorry, it was just a comment, I used to use Firefox xD
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03:13<TuxMex>Actually I'm kind a newbie at Linux... I have been using Ubuntu and Kubuntu
03:13<TuxMex>I'm trying to make me use Debian :)
03:14<BillGates>I been using linux for 7 years and im still a newbie
03:14<BillGates>guess the 1000+ distros is confusing
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03:15<TuxMex>BillGates, you must go and use Win95 xD
03:15<BillGates>be cool to get some cross distro standards, like IDK, a api?
03:15<BillGates>could do things like...interface with the os
03:15<BillGates>think that'd be cool, windows and mac do it fine
03:15<BillGates>I have win95 somewhere heh
03:16<holtind>jm_ Thx. my machine can see the qnx4 partitions, but for the qnx6 it drops an error
03:16<holtind>wrong superblock
03:16<holtind>have anyone heard about working patches?
03:17<jm_>holtind: kernel claims it supports both qnx4 and qnx6 - perhaps they have changed it for 6.4 then
03:18<TuxMex>Well, i'm gonna check if the 'reconfigures locales', works hehe
03:18<holtind>yes. as i heard, 6 and 6.4 is different
03:18<TuxMex>Thanks everybody for all :)
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04:10<buffoon_work>hi! I have a spamfilter with postfix+amavis running and there are several good mails beginning with badh- in the quarantine, even if I have "$final_bad_header_destiny = D_PASS;" set in amavis. Are the mails coming through either?
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04:26<spstarr>Question: why does debian not include byte-compiled python files into .deb packaging?
04:27<spstarr>would it have made more sense to package it vs having to generate those during install?
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04:27<jm_>spstarr: what if you have different versions of python installed?
04:28<spstarr>jm_: well that gets..messy
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04:29<spstarr>jm_: just looking at RPM they package those into the rpm itself for a respective python version
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04:29<spstarr>jm_: i dont see how thats any different with deb
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04:29<spstarr>debian can have multiple python versions installed i thought
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04:30<Azazzs>hi ....i just installed the new lenny, and a apache2. but i cant find the syslog.conf anywhere is this normal ....wassent the syslog.conf default in /etc/syslog.conf on eatch ? then installed a syslog with apt and name in log to a syslog server but dosent seem to work :/......*.* @someserver right?
04:30<jm_>yes it can
04:30<jm_>Azazzs: did you read release notes? syslogd has been replaced with rsyslog
04:30<jm_>(on default installs)
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04:31<Azazzs>jm: me and reading you know....thx :)
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04:32<Chokoloff>nyu a tous :)
04:33<spstarr>jm_: but does that matter much, disks are cheap, high speed connections etc ;)
04:33<jm_>spstarr: yeah I don't think that's the issue, I suppose they could ship them for the default version only or somesuch, maybe ask the python team
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04:33<jm_>or google if it has been posted elsewhere
04:33<spstarr>its more of a curiosity
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04:34<jm_>it's explicitely stated the package must not ship it
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04:34<jm_>but doesn't say why
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04:36<spstarr>jm_: that gets messy with SELinux etc too
04:36<Ethaniel>Hello again. I was able to fix my sound problem, but I'm getting an error from amixer every time I run alsaconf.
04:36<jm_>spstarr: you mean byte compiling?
04:37<Ethaniel>The error is "amixer: Mixer attach default error: No such file or directory"
04:37<jm_>Ethaniel: check your .asoundrc
04:37<Ethaniel>Path to that...?
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04:37<jm_>it's in ~
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04:38<tettub1>gsimmons: using original alsa-driver-1.0.17, I got sound back on my old ibm t21 :))
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04:40<rettub>gsimmons: sry I had a wrong nick
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04:42<Ethaniel>Well, I think I don't have a .asoundrc file.
04:43<jm_>how did you verify?
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04:44<Ethaniel>Used the "search" function in Krusader, thru the entire disk.
04:44<jm_>uff ls -l ~/.asoundrc
04:45<Ethaniel>"No such file or directory"
04:45<jm_>then verify what this lists: cat /proc/asound/cards
04:46<jm_>wait, I just realized - why are you running alsaconf?
04:46<Ethaniel>" 0 [I82801AAICH ]: ICH - Intel 82801AA-ICH Intel 82801AA-ICH with STAC9700,83,84 at irq 21"
04:46<Ethaniel>Had a few problems with sound, I'm using VirtualBox, updated Guest Additions and suddenly lost sound.
04:47<jm_>no need to run that - it will create some shitty .asoundrc file in most cases
04:48<Ethaniel>So, can I ignore this? The amixer error is curious.
04:48<jm_>just ignore alsaconf
04:48<jm_>you can verify if mixer works via amixer, alsamixer or kmix
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04:48<enouf>Ethaniel: ls -l ~/.asound*
04:49<gsimmons>rettub: Right. Ideally Cirrus Logic would grant a free distribution license for the firmware, eventually.
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04:49<Ethaniel>Okay then, thanks.
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04:50<poison>hi there, I have some strange problems: my apache2 processes (httpd) are eating up all the memory and when I strace them they are hanging on some futex call FUTEX_WAIT anybody an idea?
04:51<jm_>wthe futex thing is normal
04:51<enouf>wow - heh Freenode's #debian just went from like 700 users to like 50-75 maybe .. netsplitting on the massive scale
04:52<craigevil>Notice -- Server is currently split, channel modes are limited
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04:52<poison>jm_: do you have any suggestions then on how I can debug this?
04:52<enouf>craigevil: i had to turn off /join /part msgs .. too much flooding :-P
04:53<craigevil>my cpu went nuts couldnt figure why til i looked at the channels
04:53<jm_>poison: debug what?
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04:53<poison>jm_: well you sah the futex thing is normal so I'm obviously looking at the wrong place
04:53<jm_>poison: but what is the problem?
04:54<poison>well, apache is eathing all the memory and doesn't do anything anymore
04:54<poison>doesn't accept new connections
04:54<poison>and kernel kills the processes since there isn't any more memory left
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04:54<jm_>poison: did you check BTS?
04:54<poison>jm_: every bug were won'tfix and invalid
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04:56<rettub>gsimmons: that would be the best! But it is very very bad that there is nothing to read for in the release-notes '5.1.8. Sound stops working'. That costs a lot of time for me
04:56<enouf>.... "I think i can just unplug this one to use for my Vaccuum"
04:57<jm_>poison: did you try using different model?
04:58<poison>jm_: how do you mean?
04:58<jm_>poison: apt-cache search apache2-mpm
04:58<poison>oh didn't try that yet I use prefork for php because otherwise I have to enable thread-safety and that's in my opinion still tricky, especially with our in-house modules that we built
04:58<jm_>yeah that's the default
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05:00<poison>ok I'll try that one, thanks for the advice
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05:08<gsimmons>rettub: Good point, it would be useful to mention cs46xx (and firmware being required for maestro3) in this section. I'll see about extending the patch in #515264.
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05:14<figurate>Hi, does anyone know with Lenny can I change the umask for users to be 700
05:15<figurate>Sorry meant with the installer
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05:17<jm_>figurate: you can do it via pam module
05:18<figurate>I have been using in etch for quite a while but Fedora upon install had /root set to 700
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05:22<holtind>Thx, cu.
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05:28<brill>Congratulations on Lenny. One step closer to perfection.
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05:31<enouf>figurate: what do you mean "with the installer"?
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05:33<enouf>figurate: afaik, you can setup /etc/default/useradd to accept variables/options all new user you create using useradd will havve - maybe /etc/adduser.conf as well
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05:43<figurate>enouf: If i remember correctly there was some discussion about being able to configure the default umask when installing debian, has this been implemented in lenny?
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05:46<enouf>figurate: i don't recall anything like that - but check with the installation guide and see maybe preseeding?
05:52<figurate>enouf: thanks preseeding is new to me, can arbitrary commands be added??
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05:59<jose>Hi I'm moving from ubuntu to lenny and I'm having problems with the rsyncd daemon
06:00<OdyX>jose: "moving" as in "dist-upgrading" or as in "re-installing" ?
06:00<jose>i've done a new install and i'm moving the config over to my new system
06:01<jose>rsync works as a daemon if i start it manually but not with /etc/init.d/rsync start or inside inet
06:02<jose>I get no errors, but no rsyn process appear.
06:02<jose>I don't know which log to look for the error
06:02<jose>any idea?
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06:05<jm_>jose: check /etc/default/rsync
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06:07<jose>jm_ you made my day! Thank, I've lost a couple of hours with that!
06:07<jose>I would be nice to the /etc/init.d/rsync script to warn you about that
06:08<jm_>well it's trivial to debug init scripts
06:08<jose>While we're at the init script, which is the recommended tool in lenny to modifiy which ones should start on boot
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06:08<jm_>although it does warn if rong value is set, could easily be enhanced like you said
06:09<jm_>jose: update-rc.d man page has a discussion about that
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06:10<jose>thanks again
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06:10<BillGates>is debian for winners?
06:11<illumin8>Thats why bill gates retired. linux scared him.
06:15<BillGates>that or he just wanted to enjoy being one of the richest men in the world
06:15<BillGates>much is linus worth again?
06:16<OdyX>BillGates: Linus doesn't hide behind Tor... :)
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06:16<illumin8>Bill Gates is spending his time trying to improve his reputation for "getting" all those billions by feediiing kids in third world countries.
06:17<BillGates>seeings as you checked, maybe he should
06:17<BillGates>illumin8 well if a child gets fed what matters by who or why
06:18<OdyX>illumin8: and by bypassing "legitimate" financing and governement research (i.e. funding private Pharamceutics instead of gov' labs)
06:18<BillGates>it's the concept that counts
06:18<ramoonas>hi a have a problem with debian lenny. Actually i have problem with xorg.conf. In etch i could simply comment the modules i did not want to load in xorg.conf, but how can i prevent module from being loaded in lenny? there are not any loadmodule directives, but it still loads the module
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06:18<illumin8>OdyX, Agreed.
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06:19<BillGates>again what does it matter
06:19<BillGates>if the children are getting fed
06:19<OdyX>ramoonas: why would you need to comment modules out...
06:19<jm_>ramoonas: you can disable modules
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06:19<illumin8>Honestly if the kids are being fed its great.
06:19<jm_>man xorg.conf, MODULE SECTION
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06:20<ramoonas>commenting "Load" directive does not affect configuration, module still gets loaded by default
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06:21<ramoonas>OdyX: i want to try disabling few of them because lenny has issue with i810 driver
06:21<ramoonas>or xorg has, it does not matter
06:21<BillGates>have you tried googlin?
06:21<OdyX>ramoonas: try -intel ---
06:21<ramoonas>i did
06:21<BillGates>googles taking over the world you know
06:21<ramoonas>-intel ?
06:22<OdyX>ramoonas: -i8100 was superseeded by -intel AFAIK
06:22*OdyX haz to go skiing. Bye !
06:22<ramoonas>i am using this driver already
06:22<ramoonas>same thing
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06:33<alphadawn>bom dia:
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07:00<marcot>Is there a channel for asking about the web pages?
07:01<petemc>theres a mailing list
07:02<petemc>its listed on the bottom of
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07:02<stew>marcot: #debian-www or
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07:03<marcot>stew: thanks.
07:03<marcot>stew: I tried #debian-web
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07:06<zxd>is ubuntu's upstart ( replacement for sysv-Init ) in lenny?
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07:07<pedro_>j #ossystems-devel
07:07<pedro_>sorry ;D
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07:07<noflash> /c
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07:07<jm_>zxd: why don't you check for yourself?
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07:08<nkuttler>zxd: /msg dpkg pdo
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07:13<rettub>gsimmons: if you would do that it would be fine for other users!
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07:15<dr|z3d>Good reference if upgraders want to check new features.
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07:24<gsedek>hello, after upgrading to latest stable my blacklistd stoped working, it's installed connectly and additional config files are in exim4 configuration yet it does not do anything. can anyone help?
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07:25<gsedek>sorry I meant greylistd
07:26<petemc>gsedek: exim4 -bV , look at your config to ensure the rcpt acl contains your greylisting config
07:27<goodxandros>hey i have a old version of lenny on this thing cool
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07:28<goodxandros>so i could update it i bet
07:28<stepomaticc> seems to be down, can someone ping it for me please
07:28<goodxandros>or rather replace it
07:28<stepomaticc>i'm using it for opendns with ddclient
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07:30<petemc>lynx -dump |grep -A1 "Your IP Address Is"
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07:32<jm_>why would you need whatismyip to figure out your own IP?
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07:33<gsedek>peremc : yes the /var/lib/exim4/config.autogenerated has all greylistd acl's yet it fails to act on them?
07:33<stepomaticc> is working,strange _org_ used to work to ?
07:33<themill>jm_: if you're behind a adsl modem that does NAT and don't know how to find it in the adsl modem's config setup perhaps
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07:33<jm_>themill: ohh, right
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07:34<jm_>i use it in bridge mode, better run pppd on linux
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07:34<petemc>gsedek: exim4 -bhc
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07:41*Duke nods
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07:42<dr|z3d>!tell regis about fr
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07:44<Zvezdichko>dear friends, as a newly converted Debian user from Ubuntu, I'd like to learn more about Debian/Mozilla controversy and why we use Iceweasel in Lenny
07:45<metalqga>sth with the FF logo
07:45<petemc>Zvezdichko: /msg dpkg why iceweasel
07:45<gsedek>peremc : I seem to be getting false on checkcondition :check condition = ${readsocket{/var/run/greylistd/socket}check condition = ${readsocket{/var/run/greylistd/socket}ost_address $sender_address $local_part@$domain}{5s}{}{false}} = false
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07:45<petern>we use epiphany ;)
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07:45<Zvezdichko>OK, thanks to both, I'm writing a review and I'd like to explain this to the audience
07:46<metalqga>uspeh zvezdichko
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08:01<rettub>on lenny (etch upgrade) xmodmap says: 'mod1 Alt_L (0x40), ISO_Level3_Shift (0x71), Meta_L (0x9c)' Using this, <AltGr> doesn't work. This will solve the problem: echo 'keycode 113 = Mode_switch'>>~/.xmodmap How can I make it work for all users?
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08:03<dpkg>well, iceweasel is the name of a DFSG-free fork of Firefox, which replaces Firefox in Debian starting from Etch. It is different from GNU's version of Firefox, which formerly had the same name but is now known as IceCat ( To learn about the reasons for the fork, ask me about <why iceweasel>.
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08:14<enouf>rettub: i'd say in xorg.conf directly, or one of the /etc/X11/* files (or subdir files)
08:15<jm_>rettub: you can configure xkb options in xorg.conf, if that's what you're after
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08:21<rettub>hm, I changed nothing in /etc/xorg.conf That's why I wonder about the different behavior. xorg.conf: Option "Rules" "xorg",(Section "InputDevice") "Model" "pc101", "Layout" "de"
08:22<rettub>may be "Layout" "de" is what matters, locale are de_DE@euro ?
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08:23<jm_>I wouldn't know, you could compare default xkb files
08:23<rettub>I'll try locale for en_US - I hate utf-8 :)
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08:24<jm_>that's largely irrelevant as far as your keyboard goes
08:24<antonio>hi, is there a specific channel to talk about building debian package?
08:25<jm_>antonio: what about it?
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08:25<antonio>i am trying to package a library
08:25<antonio>but i have some doubts
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08:25<jm_>did you read nmg?
08:25<rettub>jm_ after the lenny upgrade console goes as before, but xterminals lacks of <AltGr>
08:26<jm_>rettub: what do you use altgr for?
08:26<antonio>i am reading Debian Library Packaging guide
08:26<enouf>talk about ugh .. ugh ~$ apropos xkb | wc -l
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08:26<rettub><AltGr>q -> @ so for |@{[]}
08:27<antonio>but i have a doubt about .so destination
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08:27<rettub>as I sayed 'echo 'keycode 113 = Mode_switch'>>~/.xmodmap' and it works with X as before
08:27<antonio>do i have to put the .so file in /usr/lib or /usr/lib/libname?
08:27<jm_>ahh too access alternate symbols
08:28<rettub>jm_: yes I have a german keyboard
08:28<antonio>ok, that is for libname.deb
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08:29<antonio>what about libname-dev? should all headers be in /usr/include/libname or /usr/include?
08:30<rettub>may be I've to ask on :)
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08:32<valdyn>antonio: your choice
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08:33<antonio>valdyn: thanks
08:33<valdyn>antonio: but having to give them each a name that isnt already used might be annoying
08:33<antonio>valdyn: ok
08:34<antonio>jm_: thanks
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08:36<valdyn>antonio: you are not supposed to define the location of .so files
08:36<valdyn>antonio: ( well you are if you are creating a debian package )
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08:37<valdyn>antonio: and even then its usr/lib, not /usr/lib
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08:37<antonio>valdyn: i do not understand, could you please explain me?
08:38<valdyn>antonio: paths are relative to /, not absolute paths
08:38<antonio>ok, you are right
08:38<antonio>valdyn: i got it
08:39<valdyn>antonio: for headers the location should be roughly define by the library developers btw
08:39<valdyn>antonio: you cannot just change that
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08:41<antonio>valdyn: i will check again destination that developers use
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08:41<valdyn>antonio: youd be breaking applications that already use those headers
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08:42<antonio>valdyn: you are right,
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08:43<antonio>valdyn: developers have this option in configure script: --includedir=DIR C header files [PREFIX/include]
08:44<valdyn>antonio: debian packages have $PREFIX=/usr
08:44<antonio>valdyn: in case PREFIX is /usr all headers are going to be in /usr/include
08:44<valdyn>antonio: custom software in debian or $PREFIX default on compilcation is usually /usr/local
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08:45<stuckey>Does anyone else see really small fonts in Epiphany?
08:46<valdyn>stuckey: epiphany font size is configurable so i wouldnt see them being to small for a longtim
08:46<antonio>valdyn: ok, but when i build debian package i put ./configure --prefix=/usr in debian/rules
08:46<stuckey>valdyn: Is there a way to configure it so that I don't have to click on the "larger" button five times everytime I open a broswer window?
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08:46<antonio>is that wrong?
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08:50<valdyn>stuckey: edit -> preferences, as in every application
08:50<metalqga>fonts aren't small here
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08:51<valdyn>stuckey: maybe you really want to fix your fucked dpi setting
08:52<stuckey>valdyn: How do I fix fucked-up DPI settings?
08:53<valdyn>stuckey: you run xdpyinfo | grep dots to see current global setting
08:53<metalqga>font rendering details 96dpi here
08:53<stuckey>valdyn: it says 86x86 dots per inch.
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08:53<valdyn>stuckey: is that correct?
08:53<stuckey>valdyn: What makes it correct?
08:54<valdyn>stuckey: dpi means dots per inch
08:54<valdyn>stuckey: pixels per inch
08:54*themill hands stuckey a ruler
08:54<valdyn>stuckey: gnome-font-properties for gnomes dpi settings iirc
08:54<valdyn>stuckey: or gnome-appearance-properties
08:55<metalqga>btw I told him that one a few days ago
08:55<stuckey>My screen is 30.5cm by 38cm, and my resolution is 1280 by 1024.
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08:55<valdyn>stuckey: my calculator is broken, use your own
08:55<metalqga>most ppl measure the diagonal :P
08:56<valdyn>metalqga: but that requires me to know about phytagoras too
08:56<valdyn>or Pythagoras, wth
08:57<koollman>that would also require you to know the precise ratio of the screen. diagonal isn't useful for dpi settings
08:58<stuckey>valdyn: I got 86... and that's what mine is set at.
08:58<valdyn>stuckey: excellent
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08:58<valdyn>stuckey: just change font size then
08:58<stuckey>valdyn: okay
08:58<valdyn>funny how theres display that actually report the correct dpi
09:01<valdyn>stuckey: check gnomes dpi setting too btw, i dont know if they always match now
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09:07<antonio>valdyn: thanks for your help
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09:20<puffy>hi guys, I have a question about packaging?
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09:21<puffy>I'm packaging FASM but its a self-hosting assembler
09:21<puffy>so how do I handle that in the Make file and what have you
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09:25<themill>puffy: you might do better in #debian-mentors
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09:30<resume-prob>hey guys, i am having problems resuming after suspend to disk
09:31<resume-prob>yes, after resume it simply crashes
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09:32<resume-prob>all stop working and i have to hold power button to restart
09:34<metalqga>anything in /var/log/messages
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09:37<gnumm>how can i use kernel 2.6.28 in debian lenny or squeeze?
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09:39<themill>dpkg: tell gnumm about trunk kernel
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09:42<resume-prob>this is the log of my crashed resume after suspend to disk
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09:44<metalqga>it ends at 0 secs?
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09:44<resume-prob>wait, ihavent pasted all
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09:46<resume-prob>i think its all
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09:47<resume-prob>(i pasted more events after, but maybe its not necessary
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09:49<resume-prob>if be needed i past more
09:50<metalqga>this thing is stated a few times lapic is not functional
09:50<metalqga>googling it now
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09:53<themill>!suspend troubleshooting
09:53<dpkg>A guide for troubleshooting suspend-to-ram and suspend-to-disk problems is at . The tools it talks about are available in the debian package uswsusp.
09:54<themill>resume-prob: ^^ can sometimes help -- e.g. see if suspend works without X enabled, without fglrx loaded etc.
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09:57<lifestream>Does anyone know if Logitech MediaPlay mouse still uses the evdev driver? (or do you know where I can check?) TY
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10:00<ranix>How can I completely remove uswsusp?
10:01<ranix>I've done an apt-get remove and I still have problems with "cannot stat resume device" or whatever on boot
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10:01<ranix>this is after adding a second hard drive
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10:04<themill>ranix: add "noresume" to the kernel boot command line
10:04<ranix>themill: awesome, that is great
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10:18<resume-prob>i have the package hibernate installed von my computer
10:19<resume-prob>but, when i try press hibernate on power manager, it dont works
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10:35<resume-prob>i've tried again to hibernate by terminal with su, but not works. same error..
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10:37<jackyf>resume-prob: try pm-hibernate
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10:39<amphi>resume-prob: does 'cat /sys/power/state' show 'disk' ?
10:39<themill>resume-prob: have you tried doing this without Xorg running?
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10:41<resume-prob>sistem tried
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10:43<resume-prob>amphi, it shows "mem disk"
10:43-!-Duke [~theduke@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:43<amphi>resume-prob: what happens if you do 'echo disk > /sys/power/state' ?
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10:44<resume-prob>cat will show only disk
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10:45<amphi>it doesn't attempt to suspend to disk?
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10:51<resume-prob>same error, but when system resumes it dont show X, just turnoff the screen
10:52<Ikarus>hrm, I am now building a virtualized image of a Debian mirror to upload to the server at work tomorrow, it just feels weird
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10:55<RAS>Hola, estoy usando el Iceweasel y no puedo ver las pag. con flash, como puedo agregarle el plugin
10:55<paul0>hi, there's something wrong with my debian+gnome, nm-applet doesn't start automatically
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10:57<gnumm>in which package is "glxgears" ?
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10:58<petemc>gnumm: /msg dpkg search
10:58<paul0>gnumm, mesa-utils
10:58<Ikarus>what program would people here recommend for managing virtual machines (kvm ones)
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10:58<adb>mesa-utils: /usr/bin/glxgears
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11:00<resume-prob>i tried to suspend to disk, an i have same error when tried hibernate
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11:01<resume-prob>resume crashes
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11:04<resume-prob>anyone knows how to help?
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11:08<resume-prob>Trying resume, after suspend for disk :
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11:08<jackyf>resume-prob: try to use newer kernel/pm-utils (at your own risk)
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11:09<fernan>hola para entrar en debian-es
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11:10<adb>fernan: do .. /j #debian-es
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11:10<resume-prob># /join #debian-es
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11:14<resume-prob>Trying resume, after suspend for RAM :
11:14<Ikarus>hrm, running qemu-make-debian-root fails with: W: Failure trying to run: chroot /tmp/mount.eJijHW mount -t proc proc /proc
11:14<Ikarus>sound familiar to anyone ?
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11:15<resume-prob>please help
11:15-!-resume-prob is now known as resume-problmem
11:15-!-resume-problmem is now known as resume-problem
11:15<resume-problem>Trying resume, after suspend for RAM :
11:16-!-ace2001ac111 [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
11:16<resume-problem>it crashes, anyone knows how to fix? (recompiling kernel will be the last try)
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11:18<resume-problem>(ctrl+alt+Backspace dont works)
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11:20<sd_>Hello! How to submit a bug report to Debian mantainers?
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11:20<resume-problem>nobody nkows how to solve?
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11:20<dpkg>Bug Tracking System for Debian packages, or to go directly to the bug page for a particular package/bug, try or . aptitude install reportbug, and check out <querybts> too. Users of unstable and testing are required to check the BTS. Useful for unstable and testing: aptitude install apt-listbugs <apt-listchanges> .
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11:28<resume-problem>i come back in few time
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11:29<smithers>I was following a howto forge on how to setup debian as my backup server. I am using the tutorial found here: But on the last step, it will not connect to the debian sshd
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11:29<smithers>The client is a centos box.
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11:30<cahoot>already checked the logs?
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11:31<smithers>cahoot, the client didn't leave anything in logs
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11:31<smithers>I coppied the key to both 'root/.ssh' dirs
11:31<cahoot>not on either system?
11:32<smithers>let me look
11:32<petemc>smithers: both?
11:32-!-SCE [] has joined #debian
11:32<smithers>this is my first debian system. i usually use rhel ... but debian 5 got my attention
11:33<kop>smithers : I've had problems before where I had never ssh-ed with that account from one box to another, so interaction was required to say that the host key was ok. Try ssh-ing manually as rsync would do it.
11:33-!-stuckey [] has joined #debian
11:33<kop>smithers : The logs are the key. (You can also ssh -v, but why7)
11:33<Benoitb>I just installed Lenny and I'm trying to get sound working. Right now my alsamixer displays "HDA Intel" "Analog Devices AD1984A" as unmuted, amarok seems to be happy playing my musique but I get no sound. any idea ?
11:34<enouf>Benoitb: dpkg -l \*alsa* | grep ^.i
11:34<cahoot>Benoitb: speaker-test -t wva -c2 is equally silent?
11:34<smithers>when i run: rsyncbackup -x /etc/rsyncbackup -vv -d -s manual everything looks good
11:34<cahoot>Benoitb: speaker-test -t wav -c2
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11:35<SCE>i'm pretty new here, I wanna switch to linux, but I am worried some of my windows programs will no longer work, also im told debian is the best build to use as its supported more places
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11:35<enouf>heh wva .. be careful cahoot :-P
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11:36<smithers>when i run: rsyncbackup -x /etc/rsyncbackup -b -s manual (on the centos box connecting to the debian server) I get Condition failed...
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11:36<cahoot>SCE: how do you expect to run winprogs in linux
11:36<nkuttler>SCE: dual boot
11:36<SCE>I dont know really
11:36<smithers>wine? vmware?
11:36<Benoitb>enouf: dpkg -l \*alsa* | grep ^.i ii alsa-base 1.0.17.dfsg-4 ALSA driver configuration files ii alsa-utils 1.0.16-2 ALSA utilities ii libsdl1.2debian-alsa 1.2.13-2 Simple DirectMedia Layer (with X11 and ALSA
11:36<SCE>I was told about a windows emulator
11:36<SCE>ahh thats it wine
11:36<stuckey>SCE: Don't dual-boot, there's everything you need in Debian,a nd thus no reason to run windows programs at all.
11:37<smithers>stuckey, awsome
11:37<enouf>apt-get update ; apt=cache search <keyword>
11:37<Benoitb>cahoot: yes, it's silent
11:37<SCE>but I'm told debian has support to run ircd's better than windows, is linux a better platform for irc
11:37<enouf>!tell SCE -about search
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11:37<smithers>there are no longs for a connection on the debian server
11:37<sd_>I need advice. I discovered a bug in installation package script of linux-image (for Etch). The problem is when you upgrade the kernel on the system where root (/) partition is not on hda1 or sda1, mine is on sda7, then the installation screws up /boot/grub/menu.lst, in my case it changes "kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.18-6-amd64 root=/dev/sda7 ro" to .. root=/dev/sda1 . After that the system won't boot. I had to fix it manually. It looks like nobody fixe
11:37<sd_>d this buf till now. I update the kernel 3rd time -- it's all the same problem. I checked and it looks like I don't know where to address this my bug report... Pls, help.
11:37<cahoot>Benoitb: what does fuser -v /dev/snd/* /dev/dsp* return?
11:37<enouf>!tell SCE -about grounding
11:38<Benoitb>cahoot: nothing
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11:38<djc>is this ( ) a reasonable trusted source for packages?
11:38<enouf>Benoitb: apt-get install alsa-oss
11:38<cahoot>Benoitb: no dedicated switch for speakers to toggle in alsamixer?
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11:39<smithers>but when i do this: ssh -i ./id_rsa root@DEBIAN-SERVER i can connect BUT it asks me for the passphraze...
11:39<kapil>sd_: you have not edited the correct lines in /boot/grub/menu.lst. read that file carefully before editing it.
11:39<Benoitb>cahoot: I didn't have this package installed, ,now it is
11:39<enouf>Benoitb: then /msg dpkg alsa checklist
11:39<smithers>i think that is my issue, is the passphrase should be stored in /root/.ssh/id_rsa
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11:39<Benoitb>cahoot: I'm gonna check but I'm pretty sure there isn't
11:39<djc>smash, you cant store a passphrase.. if you have a passphrase on your privkey, you'll have to enter it to use it
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11:40<djc>if you want to not have to enter a passphrase to use your privkey, the only way to do that is to leave it blank
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11:40<sd_>kapil: I edited it correctly, bacause my system is up and working... :)
11:40<gnumm>are freezes of debian testing and sid always so lang as the last time?
11:40<kapil>smithers: it is not the passphrase but the public key that is stored in .ssh/id_rsa
11:40<smithers>djc: then I am not understanding the purpose described in the steps here:
11:40<nkuttler>smithers: keychain
11:40<gnumm>it was over 6 monthes
11:40<sd_>kapil: it didn't want to boot after linux-image upgrade...
11:40<kapil>sd_: read the comments in the file. you'll figure it out.
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11:41<djc>"Create the keyfiles - hit enter if you're asked to enter a passphrase."
11:41<djc>eg, leave a blank passphrase
11:41<djc>from those instructions
11:41<djc>you have to leave it nlank where you generate the key
11:42<djc>else change i to blank after
11:42<smithers>djc: thanks so much...
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11:42<kapil>sd_: (hint) edit the commented out lines like "kopt=".
11:42<smithers>i think that is my issue
11:42<Benoitb>enouf: I don't know dpkg syntax, but "#dpkg alsa checklist" isn't accepted
11:42<smithers>i am liking debian quite a bit so far
11:42<smithers>getting use to apt vs yum
11:42<themill>dpkg: tell Benoitb about alsa checklist
11:43<djc>note that needing a passphrase for ssh keys isnt a debian thing, its a ssh think
11:43<enouf>sd_: 1st of all. just so you know, only update-grub and your /etc/kernel-img.conf settings affect menu.lst (AFAICT) you can narrow your issue down that wayy - yes, update-grub usually runs when installing a new linux-image-VERSION
11:43<themill>Benoitb: dpkg is also a bot here on #debian that can help you. Check the message you just got from dpkg.
11:43<enouf>Benoitb: in you irc client
11:43<djc>sd_, are you saying you've fixed your problem but now that you've done so you want to report it so it can be fixed for others?
11:43<Benoitb>enouf: thanks, I'm reading now, seems very instructive
11:43<sd_>kapil: I don't understand you. Could you pls precise what do you mean? Me, I had an issue, whis was all the same during tree kernel upgrades and I had to fix it each time manually. Now my system is up and working. and
11:43<enouf>Benoitb: dpkg here is the channel bot
11:43<sd_>enouf: I will see....
11:43<djc>sd_, or are you still trying to fix your problem
11:43<[gloom]>I have noticed that the powermizer feature is not automatically adjusting the nvidia card clock in my laptop. It is always at max freq.Is there any app, module or special config needed to activate this powersave feature besides the nvidia drivers?
11:44<enouf>!tell Benoitb -about msgthebot
11:44<sd_>no it's already fixed! :)
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11:44<djc>sd_, i mean, you've fixed it on *your* system, but you want to report it so it can be fixed in the official packages?
11:45<sd_>but it's fixed locally for my system. I don't want to have the same problem for next upgrade, so why I decided to syubmit a bug report. It's correct?
11:45<cahoot>Benoitb: since you can run speaker-test (and alsamixer) without error you alsa loaded just fine - you might doublecheck pcm/master really is unmuted in alsamixer
11:45<sd_>djc: exactly!!
11:45<gnumm>are freezes of debian testing and sid always so lang as the last time?
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11:45<djc>ok, i dont know where you report it, but now ive help sort out what you are saying someone here should know the answers
11:45<cahoot>gnumm: what if it is so?
11:46<sd_>I guess some other people with similar installations might have the same problem..
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11:46<smithers>okay, that worked very well, no more passphrase
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11:46<kapil>sd_: did you read the section of your grub menu.list that starts with "### BEGIN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST"
11:46<djc>sd_, might be of help
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11:47<djc>kapil, he isnt still trying to fix it, he just wants to report the issue so it can be fixed in the trunk
11:47<cahoot>Benoitb: some hda-intel devices need an option - see ALSA-Configuration.txt
11:47<Benoitb>running alsaconf as root made the sound come to life, thank you very much !
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11:48<sd_>kapil: which way would it help me to submit bug report to correct place?
11:48<djc>sd_, might be of help
11:48<smithers>bugger, still cannot connect to debian system, still getting Condition failed...
11:48<kapil>djc, sd_, the point is that "fixing" it by putting the root partition in the kernel command line is the wrong thing to do.
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11:49<kapil>instead you should be editing the line starting with "# kopt=" and putting in the correct options there.
11:49<djc>kapil, well, if it works for him then thats up to him. he can report the issue and the appropriate dev can determine the right fix
11:49<djc>for the trunk
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11:49<kapil>it does not "work" if it breaks at the next upgrade.
11:49<sd_>kapil: well, what do you advice? To do not submit bug report? Installation script MUST do it correct way.
11:50<gnumm>cahoot: do you know ot?
11:50<smithers>looking at the pl file it appears that error is coming from rsyncbackup , not debian.
11:50<djc>presumably it broke the first time before he jerry-rigged it.. so there must be some problem.. he's found his workaround, which isnt optimal, but he can go ahead and report the original problem, and the debian devs can find the right correction
11:50<kapil>... in other words, please read the comments in /boot/grub/menu.lst before editing the file. otherwise, disable the use of update-grub when you install new kernels.
11:51<rettub>hi, I have to switch from lilo to grub cause of a to big initramfs image. lilo conf has: boot=/dev/hda, root=/dev/hda6; /boot is mounted on /dev/hda5 (extra partition), I'm not sure how to use grub-install. Like 'grub-install /dev/hda' to overrite lilo?
11:51<rettub>new used grub before
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11:56<kapil>rettub: read the documentation at /usr/share/doc/grub/README.Debian.gz starting at "quick setup"
11:56<sd_>kapil: to the use of update-grub -- this solution is good for you or me, but the installation procedure has to work correct way if we want Debian to gain more popularity..
11:56<djc>sd_, for your workaround, what did you do?
11:57<djc>sd_, I think if you put your root= on a diferent line, then future updates will work (at least for you)
11:57<sd_>djc: just changed wrong "sda1" to sda7
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11:57<djc>sd_, what line did you change?
11:58<rettub>kapil: 'using in place of "(hd0)" the device that you boot from' -that's why I'm not shure: '/dev/hda' or '/dev/hda1' I would do the first one, but ...
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11:58<kapil>sd_: if you used debian-installer and it created a menu.lst with the wrong root then that is certainly a bug in the installer.
11:58<djc>er, actually, yeah, in my stock menu.lst, it has the root fs on the kernel line, rather than on a kopt line
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11:59<djc>sd_, i would just file a report, and summarize everything you did and what happened from the start
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11:59<djc>and the dev's can decide if there is a problem and what to do about it
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12:00<djc>sd_ as far as where, go and read over
12:00<kapil>rettub: normally one installs grub in the master boot record (mbr) in /dev/hda.
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12:01<sd_>djc: I didn't do any special changes to menu.lst until I had the problem, here I can show you how does it look like (just relevant part of it):
12:01<djc>i know there is no 'official'/supported way to get dvdcss2 on debian. due to licensing/legal, but is there a widely accepted unofficial source?
12:01<rettub>kapil: ok then it's the same as in my lilo.conf: boot=/dev/hda
12:01<sd_>djc: yes, I will...
12:01<meshuggah>hi there
12:02<djc>sd_, but at least for your own localized problem, it soundslike if you put the option in a kopt line instead of on the kernel line, it will at least give you an easier upgrade in the future
12:02<sd_>djc: yes, I understand, thank you.
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12:17<dpkg>dmm is probably Debian Multimedia, a repository of unofficial Debian packages, not in Debian for patent-related reasons, maintained by Christian Marillat. For information on how to use this repository, see or ask me about <dmm etch> <dmm lenny> <dmm squeeze>
12:17<valdyn>djc: ^^
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12:18<meshuggah>someone knows a little about openSUSE, I only want to know if it is easy to use, I want to convert my workmate to the power of linux
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12:18<kapil>opensuse easy, debian even easier
12:18<cahoot>try #opensuse?
12:18<meshuggah>ho ok
12:19<meshuggah>no i didnt try opensuse, i love the people here more
12:19<meshuggah>so i should install them ubuntu
12:19<metalqga>i've tried it once and had many problems with drivers (on not so new hardware)
12:19<meshuggah>cause it is still easier
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12:19<meshuggah>i converted one
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12:20<meshuggah>i need to convert 4 more, and they are afraid of the shadow of the keyboard...
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12:21<zizban>With Lenny dpkg-reocnfigure only allows modifications of a few settings, is there a nother way to modify the configuration for graphic card, resolution, etc?
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12:21<dpkg>i guess xrandr is a command-line interface to the RandR extension; used to set the screen size, orientation and/or reflection;
12:21<kapil>meshuggah: if you have a good network connection then use the netinst CD to install debian. it is such a small download and away you go!
12:22<zizban>will thst do the graphics card as well?
12:22<meshuggah>kapil : i have debian etch netinst, lenny netinst, ubuntu 1st CD, slax livecd, slackware full-dvd, and downloading opensuse full-dvd
12:22<InkBottle>Can you remind me what is the correct way to correct that you don't have a public key for that 4D270D06F42584E6
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12:24<kapil>zizban: perhaps you want "dpkg-reconfigure -plow" which will ask you every question.
12:24<zizban>thanks, kapil
12:24<InkBottle>Is it: gpg --keyring /usr/share/keyrings/debian-archive-keyring.gpg --list-key 4D270D06F42584E6
12:24<meshuggah>any utils for debian, software to use and operate a store and use a cash register and a billing software(like accomba) ?
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12:24<kapil>InkBottle: apt-key update?
12:24<InkBottle>kapil: I try
12:26<InkBottle>not enough
12:26<zizban>Kapil: using the -plow flag did the same thing, just the questions about framebuffer and keyboard
12:27<stew>zizban: yes, this is expected. the rest is automatically detected at runtime
12:27<zizban>but it detects it wrong. That's why i want to change the settings
12:27<stew>zizban: if the automatic detection doesn't work for you, you can be more specific in xorg.conf
12:28<zizban>no automatic configuration for that in Lenny? bummer
12:28<stew>zizban: or you can use "X -configure" to generate a very specific one you can alter
12:28<zizban>OH lemme try that
12:28<stew>kapil: note that "dpkg-reconfigure -plow" is the same as "dpkg-reconfigure" (since low is the default)
12:28<kapil>stew: ah. thx.
12:29*kapil always thought that medium would be the default.
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12:30<smithers>how do i pass authentication to rsync so it doesn't ask me for the ssh password?
12:30<rettub>kapil: thx! reboot with grub does it without any probs :)
12:30<zizban>I like the older dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg.
12:30<zizban>just sayin'
12:30<kapil>rettub: you're welcome.
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12:31<kapil>zizban: the next version of xorg might not have a default xorg.conf at all! everything will be automatic, or so I heard.
12:32<zizban>but I guess I'll manage
12:33<zizban>thanks all
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12:35<cahoot>smithers: use an empty-passphrase-key
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12:37<cahoot>smithers: and of course key-based login
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12:39<smithers>cahoot, thanks
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12:57<xensyria>Hi there
12:57-!-chomwitt [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:57<xensyria>I've just downloaded and installed Debian for my Laptop from the small CD ISO
12:58<xensyria>But I don't know how to install/run GNOME
12:58*xensyria is back in Windows to ask this...
12:58-!-unix [] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
12:59<xensyria>Can anyone here help?
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12:59<xensyria>What would I need to do?
12:59<adama>xensyria: did you choose to install gnome during the install?
12:59<stew>hacker: english only in here please
12:59<xensyria>No - the option wasn't there
12:59<xensyria>As far as I saw
12:59<adama>I haven't actually seen the new installer
12:59<xensyria>This was the small CD installer file
12:59<InkBottle>considering avahi, is there something special to do when it's a laptop?
13:00<adama>well try doing aptitude install xserver-xorg gnome
13:00<olegb>sudo apt-get install gnome ?
13:00<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, cn is China, or for help in chinese please /j #debian-zh, or for help in chinese please /j #debian-zh Please use UTF-8, for IRC help see | Qt/KDE è¿æ¸¡æå¼å§ï¼è¯¦æ请é读
13:00<xensyria>Sorry - how would I go about doing that?
13:00<astronut>can anyone recommend some desktop-publishing ish software?
13:00<astronut>to make posters and quartercards and such
13:01*xensyria isn't an advanced Linux user
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13:01<xensyria>(astronut - Open Office Draw's ok)
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13:01<astronut>xensyria: holy shit, i've never noticed that before - wow
13:02<adama>xensyria: log in as root and type apt-get update; apt-get install gnome
13:02<xensyria>Ah, ok - shall do
13:02<xensyria>Will that requure me to be connected to the internet?
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13:02<adama>xensyria: you should edit the file /etc/apt/sources.list to include network sources, if you are online
13:02<peyman_t>xensyria: login as root, and sudo apt-get install gdm gnome
13:03<adama>I believe so
13:03<astronut>xensyria: the "wow" is for my own stupidity
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13:03<xensyria>(astronut: XD)
13:03<adama>peyman_t: don't use sudo if you are already root
13:03<peyman_t>xensyria: you'll need gdm if you don't want to type startx everytime your machine in booting
13:03-!-debian is now known as Guest275
13:03<peyman_t>adama: hehe! yeah!
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13:03<xensyria>So with gdm/gnome installed
13:04<peyman_t>xensyria: correct
13:04<xensyria>Then the UI will automatically load?
13:04<peyman_t>xensyria: it should
13:04<adama>xensyria: if you have no network, just try apt-get install gdm gnome as root and if they are on the CD it will install
13:04<peyman_t>xensyria: i'm not sure about gnome, but for kde i do have to install xserver too
13:04<adama>otherwise you will need to get networking
13:04<xensyria>Ok - the installer had trouble getting my network right
13:04<xensyria>I'm on wireless atm
13:04<peyman_t>xensyria: maybe not a bad idea to do that! just to be safe
13:05<xensyria>So I'd type:
13:05<xensyria>apt-get update
13:05<xensyria>apt-get install gnome
13:05<xensyria>apt-get install xserver
13:05<xensyria>to download the last two, right?
13:05<peyman_t>xensyria: no
13:05<peyman_t>xensyria: apt-get update
13:06<peyman_t>xensyria: apt-get install xorg gnome gdm
13:06<stew>xensyria: "apt-get install gnome xorg"
13:06<xensyria>Ok - and that'd handle the xserver part then?
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13:07<peyman_t>xensyria: yeah, the xorg is actually the xserver
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13:07<xensyria>I see - thanks! So would I need to alter the file you mentioned before?
13:07<xensyria>And do you think they'll have trouble with my wireless network?
13:08<peyman_t>xensyria: you need that for installing only these packages. but you may need to make some changes to source.list in order to install other stuff
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13:08<peyman_t>xensyria: shouldn't be a problem. unless you're using an old wireless card
13:08<xensyria>Ah, ok
13:08<xensyria>Well thanks - I'll give this a shot
13:08<xensyria>What do I need to do to run GNOME after I get this?
13:09<xensyria>Just type gdm
13:09<peyman_t>xensyria: just to be safe, if you do have a cable, use that, leave the wireless for chatting
13:09<peyman_t>xensyria: no, the gdm starts gnome automatically
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13:10<peyman_t>xensyria: just insall and type reboot! you'll see a nice graphical intereface
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13:10<xensyria>Fantastic! Thanks very much for your help - I'll be back in a bit if I'm still having trouble
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13:21<Guest269>hi, what do i need to install to play mp3 stream in debian testing ? i am using Totem, it says no mpeg 1 layer 3 decoder
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13:24<djc>not updated yet for lenny
13:24<djc>if you are on lenny, wait a few days
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13:25<panthera>Guest269: you can use the intermediate packages (for lenny) from
13:26<panthera>they'll be injected into debian-unofficial pool later.
13:26<Guest269>i see ..
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13:27<djc>thats odd, I have restriced source enable in synaptic yet it doesnt fine (eg) mpg321
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13:27<djc>oh, wait.. no, just contrib and non-free
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13:28<djc>er... hrm..
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13:30<djc>panthera, how would I add that to my sources? or is it not setup for that?
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13:31<peyman_t>djc: add the multimedia repository and install "mplayer". then run this script /usr/share/mplayer/scripts/ and you'll have all codec you ever need
13:31<djc>i dont mean how to add mplayer.. i mean how to add that 'restricted' repo so its packages show up.
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13:32<djc>or is it not setup to be used as a apt source?
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13:32<panthera>djc: deb ./
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13:33<peyman_t>you source.list should have restricted
13:33<panthera>peyman_t: or apt-get install mplayer-codecs from above repository
13:33<peyman_t>panthera: true. I was trying to convince one more user to use mplayer
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13:35<djc>I use mplayer.. and vlc, and xine, and others.. I wasnt the one asking about mp3's originally
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13:36<djc>is my sources.list
13:36<peyman_t>djc: oh sorry, i didn't read the whole discussion
13:36<djc>it doesnt see the packages that are in the ls at
13:37<peyman_t>if i'm not mistaken you had to tell aptitute to consider restritced packages
13:37<djc>if I add "deb"
13:37<djc>im using synaptic
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13:38<djc>that host ( doesnt appear in the sources.list
13:38<chealer>Guest269: which desktop environment do you use?
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13:38<djc>and the doesnt have lenny packages yet
13:39<djc>i mean
13:39<panthera>djc: echo 'deb ./' >> /etc/apt/sources.list
13:39<djc>Ok.. I was just wondering about the fields ager the first url
13:39<stew>panthera: has an expired gpg key?
13:39<peyman_t>"deb testing main" works fine for me
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13:39<djc> has lenny, debian-unofficial doesnt
13:40<stew>panthera: pub 1024D/FDB8D39A 2008-01-02 [expires: 2009-02-01]
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13:41<panthera>stew: read
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13:42<djc>panthera, them not having updated it for lenny is unrelated to its gpg key being expired
13:42<stew>panthera: yeah?
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13:42<djc>i would think, anway
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13:43<djc>hrm.. in synaptic.. I can view packages by their status (installed, not, etc)
13:43<djc>or by origin
13:43<djc>it would be handy if there was a way to combine those
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13:43<fxiny>djc : are you sure dmm has not lenny packages ? is your source " testing" ot " lenny" ?
13:43<djc>eg, all installed from a specific origin
13:43<djc>fxiny, dmm *does* have lenny,
13:44<djc>its debian-unoffial which does not
13:44<fxiny>djc: 19:38 < djc> and the doesnt have lenny packages yet
13:44<djc>yes, i misspoke
13:44<djc>a few lines later i corrected that
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13:44<djc>actually i copy/pasted the wrong url
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13:45<djc><djc> er
13:45<djc><djc> i mean
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13:46<fxiny>djc: i'm not on lenny know . i upgraded last weekend and i had to edit dmm sources from "testing" to "lenny" to get all packages
13:47<fxiny>dunno if they fixed it later
13:47<fxiny>volatile "testing" was ok . just dmm
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13:49<kop>fxiny : Safer anyway.
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13:50<fxiny>kop: it was odd , i had aptitude/apt message like "...expected lenny found sarge" after swithing sources back on my etch
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13:57<f_mohr>is there a floppy installer for lenny? i'm trying to update my old subnote without cdrom drive with a fresh install (dist-upgrade failed)
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13:57<Ananth123>no usb drive??
13:58<fxiny>f_mohr: install grub on a floppy and boot a netinstall iso
13:58<fxiny>f_mohr: check debian docs for "hd install"
13:58<f_mohr>the etch installer doesn't find the usb cdrom
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14:02<resume-prob>i come back.. my problem with resume hibernated computer sill
14:03<f_mohr>i'm trying to install a minimal etch over the network from the 4.0 dvd over the network .. if that fails i'll try "hd install"
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14:06<resume-prob>when i try to resume after suspend or hibernate, system crashes. all stop working. need hold power button
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14:10<resume-prob>anyone can help?
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14:11<petemc>resume-prob: have you looked into what other people with the same computer as you had to do to get resume working?
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14:11<resume-prob>nothing on google abou it
14:11<petemc>i find that hard to believe
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14:12<nicholasthan>anyone help for network installation?
14:13<petemc>just ask
14:13<resume-prob>i use a Toshiba A215-S5837 With Debian Lenny
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14:14<sjwest>can anybody assist an idiot with a full lvm volume in the middle on lenny install ? how do i unjamit
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14:14<santi>hi debian users
14:14<resume-prob>before some updates, 2 weeks ago, hibernation works well
14:15<resume-prob>there are no problems
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14:15<santi>im using eclipse and jboss
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14:15<nicholasthan>i downloaded drivers for a marvell yukon ethernet controller,installed it on a floppy but it can't be used
14:15<santi>how can change the default gjc to sun-5?
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14:17<resume-prob>but since 2 weeks, resume hibernation crashes
14:17<djc>nicholasthan, downloaded them where? are they binary or source? for debian? for linux? or for windows
14:17-!-erdanblo [] has joined #debian
14:17<nicholasthan>from marvell's site for linux
14:18<FoxM>Hi. I want to find who in the internal network is using more bandwidth. I used iptraf configured in promiscuous mode, but it still shows only info of my internal IP. Do you know how to check other IPs in the network too? can it be done with iptraf or with some other tool?
14:18<djc>FoxM, you need to do that in the router
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14:18<djc>nicholasthan, i dont support you have the url right to where the drivers are listed, for your nic
14:19-!-mode/#debian [+l 428] by debhelper
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14:19<stuckey>I'm clicking on a link to a torrent file in Epiphany. I expect it to download the torrent file. Instead it opens Transmission (the bittorrent client). When I right click on the torrent file link and click "save as..." it saves it as an .html file.
14:19<djc>FoxM, if your network is switched, one host isnt going to be able to see what others are doing
14:19<nicholasthan>i don't understand
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14:19<djc>stuckey, its probably going to another page that might give you the torrent.. dont right click, just click regular
14:19<djc>nicholasthan, are the drivers for your nic right at ?
14:20<FoxM>djc: but not even in promiscuos mode?
14:20<djc>nicholasthan, or perhaps you nbavigated within their site to a specific page that has the specific files you downloaded
14:20<stuckey>djc: Clicking regular open Transmission.
14:20<adama>FoxM: no
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14:20<stuckey>djc: I don't want to open transmission; I want a .torrent file.
14:20<djc>FoxM, no, your switch only sends packets to your pc addressed to you, as well as broadcast
14:20<adama>FoxM: the switch will not be sending other traffic to you
14:20<djc>stuckey, huh?
14:20<erdanblo>i just install my debian (5.0, amd64), and i "apted" x-window-system and gnome, but i have a problem, i installed nvidia driver as debian-way (how debian wiki said), but i get a very simple /etc/X11/xorg.conf, there aren't the most usually options that appears, and when i try dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg, don't appear the assisten for select the driver (only FB and keyboard options)
14:21<stuckey>djc: Is it possible to download a .torrent file with Eiphany? If you know how, please tell me.
14:21<djc>stuckey, give me the url where that link is
14:21<FoxM>djc: ahh of course... :( the switch delivers directly to every card specifically... not broadcast everything... you are right... Thanks
14:21<djc>it could be the site is going something hinky to prevent it from being saved
14:21<erdanblo>how i get a fully /etc/X11/xorg.conf, to change de driver to "nvidia" and set de screen deep?
14:21<stuckey>djc: yeah okay I think you might be right... I can download them off no problems...
14:21<djc>FoxM, besides, the router is a better place to do that.. actually, if the switch supports snmp, you could try using mrtg against the switch itself
14:22<djc>to monitor traffic on each port
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14:22<adama>stuckey: I think the .torrent files go in ~/.transmission or some place
14:22<djc>NickMindXPBOX, ok, obviously thats a results page from a search
14:22<FoxM>djc: thanks... I will check that idea too ;) thanks a lot
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14:22<djc>nicholasthan, , ok, obviously thats a results page from a search
14:23-!-goodxandros [] has joined #debian
14:23<djc>nicholasthan, and i wont have the search data posted.. i'll go back to 'search again'.. need to know what you put in there
14:23-!-themill [~stuart@] has joined #debian
14:23<djc>nicholasthan, what did you select for platform
14:23<erdanblo>how i get a fully xorg.conf? with dpkg-reconfigure i only appear FB and keyboard steps: this is my actually xorg.conf:
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14:24<nicholasthan>sorry probably i made a mistake
14:24<chealer>nicholasthan: just ask your question
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14:24<stew>erdanblo: you can't with dpkg-reconfigure, you can with "X -configure" though
14:24<stuckey>erdanblo: Without any open X sessions... run X -configure at the terminal.
14:24<djc>nicholasthan, what version of debian are you using?
14:24<djc>that appears to be for kernel 2.4, which is kinda old
14:24<djc>at a terminal prompt, type 'uname -a'
14:24<nicholasthan>the latest 5.0
14:24<djc>nicholasthan, then you want
14:25<djc>nicholasthan, actually..
14:25<erdanblo>but X -configure it's a so bored and hard option :(
14:25<djc>there appeas to be a marvell driver right in the kernel
14:25<djc>nicholasthan, did you try that?
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14:25<erdanblo>well, i'll try it
14:25<erdanblo>thank you
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14:26<nicholasthan>you mean the files can't be used directly?
14:26<djc>nicholasthan, I mean 1. you have the wrong version of the driver.. the one you had was for kernel 2.4, debian 5.0 is kernel 2.6
14:26<ce>does anybody know where to download .deb-packages for sarge?
14:26<ce>my sarge installation has self-destroyed itself, and I need ssh to work again
14:26<djc>2. ideally, you want to use a driver already in the kernel, rather than a seperate from the device maker
14:27<ce>however the package system is completly broken
14:27<djc>if there is one there.. the only time to consider a seperate one is if there isnt one in the kernel
14:27<ce>so I'd like to try installing it manually with some force ;)
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14:28<adama>ce: check /var/cache/apt/archives ?
14:28<djc>nicholasthan, is your system installed, or are you trying to do a net install?
14:28<nicholasthan>i'll try again thank you for your time
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14:28<nicholasthan>net install
14:28<djc>nicholasthan, debian isnt going to auto-install drivers from a mfr's website for install
14:29<djc>stuff from a hardware vendors site is goin to expect to install on a running system..
14:29<ce>adama: already cleaned
14:29<djc>to be honest, for a net-install, id suggest trying to find a different nic, that is supported by the kernel on the install media
14:29<nicholasthan>the drivers are on a floppy if i answer correctly
14:29<ce>adama: where does apt-get download it from?
14:29<ce>adama: I wasn't able to find packages at debian's server
14:29<adama>well, from the locations in /etc/apt/sources.list
14:29<djc>they may be but not in any form that the debian installer is going to be able to use them, unless the vendor specifically made them for the debian installer to use
14:30<djc>to be honest, for a net-install, id suggest trying to find a different nic, that is supported by the kernel on the install media
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14:30<ce>adama: I had a look in /etc/apt/sources.list, but I actually didn't find any packages there
14:30<djc>if you still want to use that nic, you can figure out drivers for it after you get the OS installed
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14:30<ce>adama: only stuff like Packages.gzip and so on
14:31<djc>or instead of a net install, download the cd or dvd and install from that
14:31<djc>you only need the first one to get a basic system installed
14:31<nicholasthan>i have a live knoppix distro,can it help me somehow?
14:32<djc>nicholasthan, not that I an think of
14:32<djc>trying to do a net install with that card is going to be very painful.
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14:33<adama>ce: sorry I don't know where to find sarge debs. someone else here might
14:33-!-judd [] has quit [Quit: Ctrl-C at console.]
14:33<ce>adama: thanks for listening
14:33<djc>nicholasthan, wait.. when you go to do your net-install,
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14:34<djc>does it say it couldnt find a network card, and offer you a list of drivers to load?
14:34<nicholasthan>i suppose that my problem isn't easily solved by newbies right?
14:34<chealer>ce: yes
14:34<nicholasthan>newbies like me i mean
14:34<djc>nicholasthan, not really
14:34<chealer>!tell ce about archive
14:34<djc>does it say it couldnt find a network card, and offer you a list of drivers to load?
14:34<ranix>what's this problem again nicholasthan
14:35<ranix>I missed it
14:35<djc>ranix, marvell nic not supported in net installer kernel
14:35<ranix>ah thanks djc
14:35<djc>or.. not recognized, at least
14:35<goodxandros>According to an Nvidia press release, Intel filed a lawsuit against Nvidia late on Monday, alleging that the two companies' current four-year-old chipset license agreement does not extend to Intel's upcoming CPUs with "integrated" memory controllers.
14:35<ce>chealer: ... why/how could archive help me?
14:35<ranix>I would use a different nic for install and postinstall the driver
14:36<ranix>as a kernel module if possible
14:36<chealer>ce: because you wanted sarge packages
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14:36<nicholasthan>ranix i downloaded some drivers for a marvell yukon net card and i cant make debian recognize my card for network installation
14:36<ce>djc: I've been there, but where are the packages?
14:36<djc>ranix, yeah, thats what I was telling him.. get installed some other way, then sort out the nic
14:37-!-famelix [] has joined #debian
14:37<djc>ce, hrm.. just noticing that myself
14:37<djc>must be somewhere
14:38<ce>I looked arround quite some time ... its just like magic ;)
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14:38<nicholasthan>a live debian distro can make some difference you think?
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14:39<djc>nicholasthan, unlikely.. your best solution is to either download an install CD or DVD and install from that, or find a different nic to install with
14:39<djc>and then figure out getting that marvell nic working, if you want
14:40<nicholasthan>thank you all very much
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14:40<ce>any idea how much RAM Debian-5 needs for installation?
14:40<ranix>everyone who uses linux is a nerd right
14:41<ranix>and every nerd has a PCI nic on his bedstand
14:41<djc>ce: aha!
14:41<ranix>enouf: how far are you physically from a PCI nic right now
14:41<djc>they are in
14:41<ce>oh :)
14:41<valdyn>why would i need a pci nic?
14:42<dr|z3d>ce: You'd want to start with 256M, ideally.
14:42<ce>djc: but only the latest versions?
14:42<djc>valdyn, i dont think that was addressed to you
14:42<djc>ce, no, sarge ones are there
14:42<valdyn>djc: yea
14:42<djc>ce, you need a bunch of packages or just specific ones
14:42<ce>dr@z3d: oh, I guess I'll stay with sarge, I only have 24mb
14:42<djc>didnt you mention openssh
14:43<valdyn>ce: i dont know, but hardly more than 128
14:43<djc>in are sarge .debs
14:43<ce>djc: yes, exactly
14:43<InkBottle>In trying to upgrade I can't resolve dependencies of xorg
14:43<valdyn>ce: going from the same installer on older releases 32mb could be sufficient
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14:43<dr|z3d>ce: 24MB?!!
14:43<InkBottle>What sould I do to reinstall xorg?
14:43<djc>ce, you have a mchine with only 24MB of RAM?!
14:43<ranix>I've installed Lenny on a 133mhz TI with 14 megs of ram
14:43<valdyn>ce: but cant really use debian package management nicely with such a box
14:43<djc>ranix, masochist
14:44<ce>djc: wow, thanks :)
14:44<ranix>djc: I used it to make maps of dungeons for a roleplaying game
14:44<ranix>it worked quite well
14:44<ranix>my P3 laptop hard disk had died
14:44<ranix>and I needed a laptop
14:44-!-melinux [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:44<ranix>so I looked through the couch cushions
14:44<ranix>and that's the one I found
14:44<ce>djc: yes, the machine is running as database/mail/router server in a small company, uses 40W ... no need to replace it (until sarge blew up ;) )
14:44<djc>ce, and .udeb's too, whatever those are
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14:45<ce>djc: I'll have a look, thank you very very much!
14:45<djc>ce, thats still tiny as hell.. I mean, you can buy used machines with like 10 times that for 90 bucks
14:45<ranix>this one is free
14:45<ce>djc: but it works well, a new machine would just produce more waste
14:46<dr|z3d>ce: You may well be able to install with less than 256, but if you're running a desktop, 256M would be a comfortable amount.
14:46<ranix>24 megs of ram is enough for anybody
14:46<ranix>ce: the Debian installer for Etch requires 24 megs of ram
14:46<djc>even the crappy machines I have win98 just to play a couple old games on have like 256M
14:46<ranix>ce: Lenny may require 32 megs
14:46<ce>no, its just a very tiny server
14:46<ranix>ce: I would do it by installing Sarge, then doing a dist-upgrade to Etch, then to Lenny
14:46<valdyn>ce: i would install elsewhere and move the disk
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14:47<valdyn>ce: saves time too
14:47<ranix>ce: I would install Sarge via floppy disks
14:47<ce>thanks for all the help
14:47<djc>ce, what type of simm's does it use? you could probably double the memory in it for like $4
14:47<ce>I'll try to "fix" sarge first ;)
14:47<InkBottle>what should I do with that? xserver-xorg-video xserver-xorg-video-1.0 xserver-xorg-video-1.9
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14:47<valdyn>InkBottle: "aptitude installx xorg"
14:47<valdyn>InkBottle: "aptitude install xorg"
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14:48<valdyn>InkBottle: why would reinstalling fix a dependency issue?
14:49-!-dieg [] has quit []
14:49<InkBottle>valdyn: xorg already installed and allready the most recent available
14:49<valdyn>InkBottle: whats your problem then?
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14:51<djc>InkBottle, what are you trying to upgrade?
14:51<djc>InkBottle, you could first deinstall Xorg, then upgrade whatever else, then reinstall Xorg
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14:53<InkBottle>valdyn: djc: I'm trying to upgrade old-lenny to new-lenny. -- it seems the dependency problem is solved (not absolutly sure yet)
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14:55<djc>wtf are 'old-lenny' and 'new-lenny' ?
14:55<petemc>i would guess old-lenny is testing that hasnt been updated in a while, and new-lenny is stable
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14:57<adama>I'm running squeeze/unstable. apt-get dist-upgrade wants to REMOVE and some others, but upgrade and some others... is that expected?
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14:58<ranix>adama: is a metapackage
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14:58<ranix>adama: it's possible the metapackage is broken or being updated
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14:59<ranix>adama: not having doesn't mean the program won't work
14:59<adama>it also wants to remove etc. are those meta-packages as well?
14:59<ranix>adama: I don't think those are, no.
14:59-!-themill [~stuart@] has joined #debian
14:59<adama>I'll pastebin it
14:59<Lance4>I got a question, how do I get Qemu running in Debian PPC 5.0?
14:59<ranix>adama: it's not like openoffice is a critical package
14:59<ranix>adama: I would apt-get remove it, raw, then dist upgrade, then reinstall
14:59<djc>yeah, let it have its head, and then.. yeah, ro what ranix said
15:00<ranix>adama: do pastebin and bugreport it though
15:00<ranix>just in case
15:00<Lance4>I got it installed all ready but I can't get anything running
15:00<ranix>someone might have done something silly to the metapackage
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15:00<djc>Does qemu work on ppc?
15:00<Lance4>I got it installed
15:01<djc>installing it and running it are two different horses
15:01-!-Nobodys_Home [] has joined #debian
15:01<Lance4>I just don't know how to use it that good
15:01<djc>well.. google for docs
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15:01<adama>not sure what it is trying to do, installing themes? Is it trying to give me v3.0 ? that would be cool
15:01<djc>you think its not working right, or you just dont know how to run it?
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15:01<Lance4>don't know how to run it
15:02<chealer>Lance4: did you read the manual?
15:02<ranix>adama: yeah after looking at the output I have no new information
15:02<Lance4>what manual?
15:02<djc>ah well.. unless there are some docs where you got it from, you could try 'man qemu' or even just 'qemu'
15:02<ranix>adama: I would put that exact text in a bugreport against the package
15:02<djc>see what happens
15:02<Lance4>ok brb then
15:02<ranix>and then just do it and reinstall openofcice
15:02-!-pekka [] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä]
15:03<djc>would be a good place to start, i suppose
15:03<resume-prob>before some updates, 2 weeks ago, hibernation works well
15:03<djc>!tell everyone about google
15:03<resume-prob>there are no problems
15:03<adama>ranix: I'm going to remove it, then upgrade, then install, see what happens
15:03<djc>oh crap
15:03<resume-prob>but since 2 weeks, resume hibernation crashes
15:03<Lance4>YAY! when man-qemu is typed it shows the manual
15:03<djc>did that actually spam everyone with that?
15:03-!-grochap [~grochap@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:03<djc>I didnt expect that to be a valid command ;)
15:04<adama>djc: only a user named "everyone" if he exists... lol
15:04<djc>adama, heh..
15:04<chealer>adama: is your system up-to-date?
15:04<chealer>adama: oh, sorry
15:04<adama>chealer: pretty much, I think I dist-upgraded on monday.
15:04<adama>you can see my pastebin
15:05<djc>Lance4, the point was, i google searched for 'qemu'. and two clicks later I was at that page
15:05<adama>or are you talking to someone else
15:05<chealer>adama: did you start with a simple upgrade?
15:05<ranix>I didn't know libcairo2 got upgraded
15:05<ranix>what's up with that
15:05<djc>i dont know what libcairo2 is
15:05<djc>whats up with that
15:05<ranix>vector graphics library
15:05<ranix>used by me
15:05<ranix>and mozilla
15:06<djc>when I come to IRC for help, I've usually already spent an hour googling and not been able to find what I want
15:06<djc>well.. unless Im already in irc
15:07<ranix>I'm always in irc
15:07<ranix>irssi + screen
15:07-!-`villain` [~villain@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:07<ranix>maximum idling power
15:07<adama>chealer, no, only dist-upgrade
15:07-!-sunoano [] has joined #debian
15:07<chealer>adama: start with a simple upgrade
15:07<djc>well, once im in i only logout if my connection dies or I need to reboot becuase im reinstalling my system ;)
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15:08<ranix>I was going to get one of those new i7 computers to run windows in Xen
15:08<resume-prob>after resume suspend or hibernate, x loads but 1 second later it crashes
15:08<ranix>with pci passthrough for accelerated graphics
15:08<djc>Lance4, if you want to virtualize, you might want to consider 'VirtualBox'
15:08<resume-prob>all stop working
15:09-!-mode/#debian [+l 421] by debhelper
15:09<djc>feh.. who needs resume anyway
15:09<ranix>but I decided I already had too many computers anyway and bought a new keyboard instead
15:09<Lance4>How do I tell where my usb drive is located at? like hda 1
15:09<chealer>I'll be back later
15:09<djc>dmesg ?
15:09<adama>chealer: ok, things are moving along ok so far
15:09-!-chealer [~chealer@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:09<adama>Lance4: dmesg|tail should say
15:10<djc>if you just plugged it in
15:10<djc>if not you may need to look further back.. or, just unplug it, then replug it
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15:11<djc>then wait a bit
15:12<djc>i like debian dmesg.. it has timestamps
15:12<djc>fedora didnt
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15:14<simonrvn>that's a kernel thing
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15:16<djc>i realize that
15:16-!-patrikf [] has quit [Quit: patrikf]
15:16-!-warden [] has left #debian [Leaving]
15:17<djc>but whatever kernel lenny has has it, and whatver fedora had didnt.. granted, it was a slightly older fedora..
15:17<djc>so it could just be something added in new kernel
15:17<djc>and new fedora would have it too
15:17<djc>or it could be a debian-specific patch
15:17<simonrvn>yeh, fairly recent config option
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15:18<simonrvn>mainline kernel
15:18<djc>ah ok.
15:18<djc>i like it
15:18<simonrvn>i used to despise it, but only 'cause it took up so much room on 640x480 ;p
15:19<djc>they probably could have left off the decimal part
15:19<djc>or truncated it at two digits
15:19<simonrvn>i use an fb console on this x86 box now, so i just plop the res. to 1024x768 there.
15:20<djc>amarok deps on *konqueror* ?
15:20<djc>how stupid
15:20<simonrvn>Suggests: amarok-engines, moodbar, libvisual-0.4-plugins, konqueror | www-browser
15:21<simonrvn>not a dep
15:21<djc>ah ok
15:21-!-path [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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15:21<djc>i know you can switch 'treat suggests as deps' on and off
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15:22<Lance4>ok I got something to go on Qemu, but I don't know how to tell Qemu to load off a usb drive that has partitions
15:22-!-mark_ [] has quit []
15:22<djc>what would be nice, is if when you went to apply, if it would list which were deps on which were sugs, and let you choose which of the sugs to include
15:22<dr|z3d>djc: Are you running Gnome?
15:22<themill>the amarok 2 package from experimental will drag in konqueror through a recommends though.
15:22<Lance4>what do I do/
15:22<djc>thats fine.. its not a big deal
15:23<djc>Lance4, google "qemu boot usb"
15:23<dr|z3d>djc: If you *are* running Gnome or another gtk based environment, you might prefer exaile over amarok.
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15:23<simonrvn>djc: it does already. aptitude.
15:23<Lance4>ok one sec
15:23<djc>dr|z3d, im just playing at the moment.. i usually use cli mpg321 to play mp3's
15:23<djc>sime, im in synaptic
15:24<themill>djc: so learn to use aptitude instead?
15:24<dr|z3d>djc: Fair enough. Songbird's another one to look at.
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15:24<djc>themill, thanks for letting me know aptitude does that.
15:24<Lance4>nope nothing
15:24<djc>it would be a nice feature to add to synaptic
15:25<djc>*nothing* ?
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15:25<djc>i find that hard to beleive
15:25<Lance4>it just shows a list of commands
15:25<djc>unless we are using different googles
15:25<djc>what does?
15:25<themill>djc: haven't looked at synaptic for years, but it certainly used to give you that option. something like right click on the package -> suggests -> click on package name to install
15:26<djc>themill, i know I can go into the properites and see it
15:26<djc>i mean when I 'apply' to install what has been marked
15:26<craigevil>it does there is a suggest and a recommends when you right click a package
15:26-!-Zvezdichko [~svetlio@] has joined #debian
15:26<djc>for all the pckages, which ones were marked due to a dep, and which were added as a suggestion
15:26<djc>which checkboxes by the suggestion ones that you can uncked/check as desired, then hit 'go'
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15:27<craigevil>you can always just disable recommends and suggests, in apt.conf APT::Install-Recommends "0"; APT::Install-Suggests "0";
15:27-!-scientes_ [] has joined #debian
15:27<djc>i see you can mark 'all suggested', or not
15:27<djc>i know you can turn it off
15:27<craigevil>then you can install them if you want right click and install them
15:28<Lance4>I need help, qemu is hard to rin
15:28<djc>i mean after you click 'apply', in synaptic, to see the ones that were suggested, and be able to pick which ones you want, or not, right there
15:28-!-si0ux [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:28<djc>itd be handy
15:28<djc>its not something I cant live without tho
15:28-!-hahnp [] has joined #debian
15:28<djc>Lance4, qemu is ratehr a tricky thing to run.. what are you trying to do with it?
15:29-!-InkBottle [] has joined #debian
15:29<Lance4>emulate windows 98 Me on my powerbook G4
15:30<djc>qemu isnt a windows emulator, its a pc emulator.. eg, youd need a real windows cd to 'install' windows into the vm with
15:30-!-chealer [] has joined #debian
15:30<InkBottle>djc: (have been disconnected) It means the the lenny of this computer hadn't been upgraded for long (therefore it's old) :)
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15:30<Lance4>ohh well what about a reinstation windows disk?
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15:31<djc>Lance4, basically what qemu gives you is a emulated pc, with a blank hard drive
15:31<sepski>Lance4, you may consider useing virtualbox instead ? it's a lot more intuitive if you are a mousy person
15:31<christian>anyone know a command that will get me the IP address of my DHCP server?
15:31<chealer>adama: I'm back
15:31-!-geenna [] has joined #debian
15:31<djc>djc, you can install anything that can install on it
15:31-!-amdgoon [~amdgoon@] has quit [Quit: When you don't know what you are doing, do it neatly.]
15:31<djc>christian, if you have a simple/stock home setup with a nat/router/dhcp box, look at route -n at the default route
15:32<Zvezdichko>By the way, thank you for you help earlier this day. it helped me a lot
15:32<djc>sepski, can virtualbox emulate x86 on ppc?
15:32<djc>Lance4, if it can, virtualbox would be a lot easier for you to use
15:33<Lance4>let me look
15:34<christian>I'm using a larger network at work. I think we have 2 servers giving out DHCP addresses and I want to find out which ones
15:34-!-GT [] has joined #debian
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15:34<djc>christian, ugh, thats not good.
15:34<djc>well, look for the leases files under /var/lib/
15:34<sepski>djc, have no idea actually
15:35<christian>ha ha I agree djc
15:35<djc>or you could ifire up and look for dhcp packets
15:35<djc>fire up wireshark
15:35<djc>you'd need to get on a bridge tho
15:35<djc>some parts of dhcp might be broadcast
15:35-!-path_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:35<christian>sorry kind of a linux noob, we use mostly Mac but I'm trying to learn linux so thought I'd give this a whirl
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15:35<Pryon>delete your arp cache and request a new lease?
15:35<sepski>djc, does not look like it
15:35<Lance4>ok I looked, no virtualbox for PPC
15:37<Lance4>looks like Qemu all the way
15:37<djc>not surprised
15:37<GT>I'm having issues with sound in lenny. With Gnome up, the volume control applet says "No volume control GStreamer plugins and/or devices found." I have permissions to use audio, and ALSA's installed, but alsaconf doesn't find any cards to use.
15:37-!-geenna [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:37<Lance4>ok going to look
15:37<djc>although im pretty certain it doesnt support usb, or at least not well
15:37<djc>what are you trying to boot?
15:37<djc>from a usb disk?
15:37-!-geenna [] has joined #debian
15:38<BillGates>you guys have talking
15:38<BillGates>all day???
15:38<Lance4>yea its a acomdata 148 gb usb drive
15:38<valdyn>Lance4: kvm
15:38<djc>Lance4, yes but whats on it?
15:38-!-jojo [] has joined #debian
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15:39<djc>is it bootable?
15:39<valdyn>Lance4: i think theres a ppc port of kvm
15:39<Lance4>windows 98 on a 10gb partition
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15:39<valdyn>Lance4: what are you trying to virtualise though? and intel cpu? then kvm is wrong
15:39-!-ameyer [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:39<djc>hes on ppc, wants to an x86 vm
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15:41<Lance4>yea that is it
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15:42<djc>Lance4, may not be anything
15:42<djc>for linux on ppc
15:42<GT>Does anyone know about the sound thing?
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15:42<djc>for osx, im sure it exists to vm x86
15:43<djc>and for linux on x86
15:43<Lance4>hey what about a VC windows image inserted into qemu?
15:43<djc>GT, does anyone know what about what sound thing?
15:43<djc>does qemu on ppc emulat x86?
15:43<BillGates>funny people actually use qemu
15:43<GT>The sound issue I mentioned earlier. Would you like a repost?
15:44<djc>if so then maybe you just need to get that win98 image moved somewhere it can access it
15:44-!-ace2001ac112 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:44<Lance4>hmm where?
15:44<djc>not sure
15:44<BillGates>use those
15:44<GT>djc: The sound issue I mentioned earlier. Would you like a repost?
15:44<djc>both require x86 hardware
15:44<Lance4>hold let me try something
15:44<djc>GT, might be good not to assume everyone here now was here earlier
15:45<djc>he has ppc hardware
15:45<GT>Well, from how it looked, everyone who was talking was. :P
15:45<GT>So, I'm having issues with sound in lenny. With Gnome up, the volume control applet says "No volume control GStreamer plugins and/or devices found." I have permissions to use audio, and ALSA's installed, but alsaconf doesn't find any cards to use.
15:45-!-jbernard [] has joined #debian
15:46<djc>so the kernel isnt seeing your soundcard
15:46<djc>lspci, see what you have
15:46-!-skyegg [] has joined #debian
15:46<djc>google, see if there are known issues with it, or solutions to them
15:47-!-gigi__ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:48<Lance4>8 mins left
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15:48<Lance4>for copy
15:48<djc>where are you copying it?
15:48<djc>and how?
15:48<Lance4>i'm tryin the desktop
15:48<djc>if you want to be able to boot it, you need to copy the fs image itself
15:48<djc>as opposed to the contents
15:49<Lance4>no w8 its a two part vhd image
15:49<djc>if you have space on hd, shrink a partiion, make a new empty one...
15:49<djc>dd it there, then give that whole partition to qemu, assuming it supports that
15:49<djc>do you have an internal cdrom drive?
15:49-!-chahibi [] has joined #debian
15:50<djc>might be simpler to make a new blank hd in qemu, and do a fesh install of windows to it
15:50-!-pdusen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:50<Lance4>but I only have a reinstall disk
15:51<djc>google for a torrent of a win98 cd
15:51<Lance4>and how do I do it anyways, like tell qemu to use that partition?
15:51<djc>dunno.. i dont use qemu
15:51<djc>im sure theres a config somewhere
15:51<BillGates>nobody uses qemu
15:51<BillGates>its silly
15:51<BillGates>virtualbox and vmware lot beter
15:51<Lance4>shut up
15:52<djc>bigeasy, virtualbox and vmware DO NOT RUN ON PPC HARDWARE
15:52<BillGates>no u
15:52<djc>BillGates, , virtualbox and vmware DO NOT RUN ON PPC HARDWARE
15:52<BillGates>vmware does
15:52<Lance4>let me look
15:52<djc>under linux?
15:52<BillGates>mines longer
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15:53<christian>ah ha found it
15:53<BillGates>vmware runs on most things
15:53<christian>look in /var/lib/dhcp/dhclient-<interfa­ ce name>.lease
15:53-!-duraperidol is now known as Guest318
15:53<christian>sorry this is just me being victorious
15:54<djc>there is vmware fusion for ppc, but it runs on osx, not debian
15:55<djc>BillGates, so if you are aware of a vmware for ppc/linux, that will run x86 client, feel free to provide the link
15:56-!-adb [~otis@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:56<GT>djc: There's a solution for an older kernel, but it doesn't work.
15:56<themill>BillGates: [citation required]. I have never seen vmware running on ppc.
15:57<djc>themill, they list vmware fusion, but its for osx
15:57<Lance4>I'm dumb
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15:58<Lance4>couldn't I just copy the hard disk into a disk image?
15:58<themill>djc: in fact, it's macintel only
15:58<djc>someone apparently ran it on a machine *called "ppc"
15:58<djc>but that doesnt help much
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15:59<djc>Lance4, it would be less painful to go find an old pentium3 machine and use that, to be honest
15:59<Lance4>but couldn't I just copy the hard disk into a disk image?
15:59<djc>you could try
16:00<djc>use dd if=/dev/whatevertheusbdriveis of=whereveryouarecopying it to
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16:01<djc>Lance4, is there something specific on that win98 install you need, eg apps already installed or data on the drive, or do you just need anvirtual win98 machine
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16:01<Lance4>I think I got something
16:01<Lance4>just hols
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16:03<GT>Hmmm... If I'm running 2.6.27-11-generic, I should have a /lib/modules/2.6.27-11-generic/, shouldn't I?
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16:04<craigevil>generic? isnt that an ubuntu kernel
16:04-!-si0ux [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:04<Lance4>ok I got it to find my drive, but now its suck on.... "Booting from Hard Disk..."
16:05<GT>craigevil: It shouldn't be... I don't really know.
16:05<craigevil>its not a debian kernel
16:05<GT>Well, that's bad then. Definitely bad.
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16:06<djc>GT, you might want to reinstall/upgrade kernel
16:06<GT>How might I do that?
16:06-!-phrosty [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:06<GT>Easy as that?
16:06<djc>uhm.. 'use apt'
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16:07<BillGates>im not sure what to think about cloud computing
16:07<BillGates>right now has me uneasy
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16:08<djc>uhm.. thats odd
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16:08<djc>isnt there a kernel dpkg?
16:08<GT>Hmmm. Well, apt's busy right now, so I guess I'll just have to sit here for a while with my very, very confused system.
16:08<djc>that should be installed?
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16:09-!-mode/#debian [+l 429] by debhelper
16:09<djc>is there an arg to dpkg that says 'what pkg does file X below to' ?
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16:10<srg>djc> dpkg -S
16:10-!-mihkel [~mihkel@2001:7d0:0:f000::1209] has joined #debian
16:10<djc>than you
16:10<djc>was looking at the manpage, couldnt find it
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16:11<djc>ah.. linux-image is the kernel package
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16:25<Lance4>I QIUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
16:25<dr|z3d>Spare, us, Lance4.
16:26<Lance4>QEMU IS TOO HARD TO RUN!!!!
16:26<Lance4>ok i'm g2g bye
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16:28<teratoma>there is a #qemu channel
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16:29<djc>he laready left
16:29<djc>and we (at least I) already told him trying to get qemu to do what he wanted would be painful
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16:30<padski>I'm seeing something that looks like lenny/testing confusion when I apt-get update, see
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16:34<padski>oops, my mistake. I have a sources.list.d I hadn't noticed.
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16:51<kbs>Is there a suggested (online docs?) path to upgrade from sarge->lenny?
16:52<kbs>(as opposed to etch->lenny, I mean...)
16:52<koollman>kbs: sarge->etch, then etch->lenny, seems to be the safest one
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16:52<kbs>koollman: ok -- thanks
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16:57<stuckey>Trying to unrar a file with the command "unrar -x *.rar", which I expect to unrar a file but it just says "failed".
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17:02<boran>I want to upgrade from stable to testing, but haven't used Debian for a while. I haven't found any info on the web. Could someone give me a hint?
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17:04<jeff_hann>boran, replace 'stable' with 'testing' in your /etc/apt/sources.list
17:04<jeff_hann>then aptitude update && aptitude full-upgrade
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17:06<boran>jeff_hann: It says 'lenny' instead of 'stable' but I get the point. Thank you!
17:06<jeff_hann>boran, anytime :-)
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17:15<gnumm>do you know when i new kernel will be put in sid?
17:17<rgimenes>some know about the kernel 2.6.26 dont detect hard disk on installer of lenny? my mother board is Giga Byte (GA-945GCM-S2C)
17:17<padski>apt-get install crystal-ball ;-)
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17:19<padski>gnumm, why do you want to know ?
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17:20<gnumm>just to know
17:20<rgimenes>in i see this topic "Disk devices may change on reboot " but a need a new instalation, and my hard disk don detect...
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17:21<djc>what type of HD do you have? connected how?
17:21<djc>and where/when do you get a message about not detecting a hard drive?
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17:24<padski>gnumm, as far as I understand the process, new kernels appear in sid when the maintainers upload them.
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17:24<djc>i love it when people come in for help with a question, and you ask for some followup info, and they dont bother to respond
17:24<rgimenes>djc, 00:1f.2 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801GB/GR/GH (ICH7 Family) SATA IDE Controller (rev 01) 00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) SMBus Controller (rev 01)
17:24-!-hahnp [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:24<djc>where you *typing* that?
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17:24<rgimenes>in the same machine, using kernel of ETCH
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17:24<djc>I wasnt asking you to copy info from the machine..
17:25<djc>andand that still doesnt tell me what kind of HD you have
17:25<djc>the machine boots up in an older version of debian fine?
17:25<rgimenes>but with info answer your question
17:25<rgimenes>SATA II
17:25<djc>actually, no, it only mentioned a controller, no drive
17:25<rgimenes>boot normaly
17:25<djc>and where/when do you get a message about not detecting a hard drive?
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17:26<djc>looks like thats from lspci..
17:26<djc>which is all fine and good.. but hard drives arent pci devices, so wont show there
17:26<djc>dmesg | grep hda might be more useful
17:26<rgimenes>i dont remeber but like wich "choose your drver" i tried all but dont sucess
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17:27<djc>you are trying to upgrade to lenny?
17:27<djc>and you have a lenny cd/dvd ?
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17:27<rgimenes>now this machine is upgrated to lenny but, using old kernel
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17:28<djc>and you did that how?
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17:28<djc>how did you upgrade to lenny
17:29<rgimenes>i boot
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17:29<djc>boot what?
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17:29<rgimenes>with etch net install, deselected all package
17:29<edu>what is the channel of debian in spanish?
17:29<djc>why on earth would you do that
17:29<rgimenes>and the first login i replaced the sources
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17:29<djc>proably the simplest way would have been to just upgrade from apt
17:30<rgimenes>sources.list to etch to lenny
17:30<Jflesch>djc: in /etc/apt/sources.list, replace all the reference to etch by stable or lenny, then apt-get update and next apt-get dist-upgrade
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17:30<rgimenes>and apt-get update apt-get dist upgrade
17:30<rgimenes>yes, do it
17:30<djc>ok, i would think that would update the kernel too
17:30<Jflesch>it will yes
17:30<rgimenes>add new kernel in my grub
17:31<rgimenes>2.6.26, but dont work
17:31<djc>you did that by hand?
17:31<djc>or you let apt do it?
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17:31<rgimenes>by apt
17:31<Jflesch>djc: if you're using debian kernels, apt should do it just fine
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17:31<djc>pastebin your /boot/grub/menu.lst
17:32<rgimenes>i moment
17:32<djc>Jflesch, yes, I know, i was asking wether he let it do it by itself or he did it manually
17:32<djc>Jflesch, if he did it manually it was likely he did it wrong
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17:32<Jflesch>hm, I think I missed the beginning of this discussion :)
17:32<rgimenes>title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-1-686
17:32<rgimenes>root (hd0,1)
17:32<rgimenes>kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.26-1-686 root=/dev/sda2 ro
17:32<rgimenes>initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.26-1-686
17:32<rgimenes>title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-1-686 (single-user mode)
17:32-!-rgimenes was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
17:32<snoggleby>Hi, do I need to install better video card drivers to get proper use of my video card? I have a radeon 4850 and graphically things really aren't performing anywhere near as well as they should.
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17:33<djc>!tell rgimenes about pastebin
17:33<Jflesch>snoggleby: probably means that you're using the opensource ati driver, you should try with the proprietary one if you need full 3d acceleration
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17:34<rgimenes_>djc im back
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17:34<djc>!tell rgimenes_ about pastebin
17:34<snoggleby>Jflesch: do you have any idea where i could find a guide or more info on that?
17:34<djc>_pastebin_ your /boot/grub/menu.lst
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17:34<Jflesch>snoggleby: as far as I remember, the open source driver is called "ati"(in /etc/X11/xorg.conf) and the proprietary one is called "fglrx"
17:34<Jflesch>snoggleby: sorry, not really
17:34<djc>or one of the ones in the dpkg msg
17:34<Jflesch>I have only nvidia cards
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17:36<snoggleby>oh god this sounds complicated
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17:38<djc>rgimenes_, ok, i dont see anything wrong there.
17:38<djc>it would be handy to see exactly what messages you get when you try to boot the new kernel
17:38<djc>does it start to boot linux? do you get messages from the kernel?
17:38<djc>or does it not even get that far?
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17:40<rgimenes_>i dont remember but i can reboot and take notes
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17:41<rgimenes_>wait 15 minutes, i finishing download
17:42<djc>while you are waiting pastebin your dmesg
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17:43<snoggleby>"For 3D acceleration to work, you will need to compile the fglrx kernel module for your kernel: see the fglrx-source package" - so exactly does this entail?
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17:44<rgimenes_>djc from dmesg
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17:44<djc>apt-get install fglrx-modules
17:44<Jflesch>snoggleby: (notice the update note at the top)
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17:45<Jflesch>(and this doc doesn't specify it, but you will probably have to replace "ati" by "fglrx" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf)
17:46<snoggleby>Jflesch: thanks
17:46<Jflesch>you're welcome :)
17:46<snoggleby>ugh. can't find the packages
17:47<Jflesch>snoggleby: what version of debian are you using ?
17:47<Jflesch>stable / testing / unstable ?
17:47<snoggleby>the latest stable version i'm pretty sure
17:47<Jflesch>(I think this doc is for unstable)
17:47<snoggleby>i just installed last night
17:47<djc>oh.. looks like its in non-free
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17:47<djc>do you have non-free sources enabled?
17:48<rgimenes_>yes, i use it
17:48<snoggleby>should have thoguht of that
17:48<djc>rgimenes_, that was to snoggleby
17:48<rgimenes_>ok sorry
17:49<NSAJEFF>Would it be possible to do something like this: Home computer(dynamic IP) *SSH Tunnel* Web server(domain name) *SSH Tunnel* VPS server(static IP) *SSH connection* work machine. And when I connect from work to VPS I can get into my home machine?
17:49<djc>if you can ssh from home to work,
17:50<djc>then you can tell ssh to open a port listening at the work side, that connects to sshd at home
17:50<Jflesch>NSAJEFF: everything is possible ; the question is how much time are you ready to spend configuring your routing tables ? :)
17:50<themill>NSAJEFF: with enough port forwarding, yes. Something like dyndns and a portforward on your modem/router might be easier though
17:50<djc>Jflesch, you dont need any routing for that
17:50<djc>just port forwarding
17:51<Jflesch>djc: hm, yes, correct, but he was talking about ssh tunnels, not ssh port forwarding ?
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17:51<NSAJEFF>I do not have access to the the home router or dyndns...reason for an ssh tunnel
17:51<snoggleby>where can i find a guide for adding the non-free repositories?
17:51<NSAJEFF>I have a LOT of time..
17:51<snoggleby>tried the wiki but came up dry
17:51<djc>when you ssh, it can make a tunnel, which will forward tcp connections over a 'tunnel'
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17:52<djc>i dunno, for me its an option in synaptic preferences
17:52*Jflesch rtfm
17:52<snoggleby>sorry, i'm used to ubuntu
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17:52<NSAJEFF>I want to go from my web server ssh session and have access to my home machine just with the use of ssh..
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17:53<djc>if you can ssh from the home end to a fixed/static server on the net, you can have the ssh server at the fixed end listen on a specific port, and foward connections toit back to port 22 at the 'home' machine
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17:53<djc>NSAJEFF, you want the '-R' foption
17:53<djc>man ssh
17:54<djc>to ssh, at the home end
17:54<themill>dpkg: tell snoggleby about non-free sources
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17:54<djc>ssh user@host -R 9922:localhost:22
17:54<djc>from 'home'
17:54<rgimenes_>djc, recevied link about my dmesg?
17:54<Jflesch>snoggleby: in my /etc/apt/sources.list, I have theses two lines: (except I'm using unstable)
17:54-!-x [~x@] has joined #debian
17:55<djc>then connect to port 9922 on 'host' from anywhere you can, it will map you back to 22 on wherever the ssh came from
17:55<themill>Jflesch: if you're using unstable, why do you have "stable" in your sources.list?
17:55<Jflesch>themill: because I modified before pasting :p
17:56<themill>Jflesch: ahh... in any case, better to use "lenny" than stable.
17:56<djc>rgimenes_, yes, i got it
17:56<NSAJEFF>Thanks guys, I'll start tinkering tonight.
17:56<djc>rgimenes_, havent noticed anything of note
17:56<NSAJEFF>Sounds like a massive pain :)
17:56<djc>NSAJEFF, if its your 'home' why dont you have access to the router?
17:56<themill>NSAJEFF: djc: you need to change an sshd_config option for -R to listen on anything other than localhost.
17:56<Jflesch>themill: hm, I prefer to use "stable" on my stable debians, so it upgrade almost automatically when a new version comes out
17:56<rgimenes_>ok i reboot now, wait there
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17:57<NSAJEFF>djc, not everyone has access to their routers. I'm staying at my girlfriends while my place is renovated and her roommate controls the router
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17:57<djc>NSAJEFF, oic
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17:57<djc>and see themill's note
17:57<themill>Jflesch: that's such a recipe for a mess.... you've seen how complicated sarge->etch and etch->lenny were. Yuck. /msg dpkg stable sources.list
17:57<djc>you might need to use
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17:57<djc>ssh user@host -R localhost:9922:localhost:22
17:58<djc>and then ssh to 'host' first, then ssh again to localhost -p 9922
17:58<Jflesch>themill: my debian stable are servers (=> no X) => upgrades are not *so* complicated when no X is involved
17:58<themill>djc: yeah, that's a better way of getting around the GatewayPorts problem
17:59-!-mode/#debian [+l 406] by debhelper
17:59<Jflesch>(personnal servers, so I don't really care if something is broken for few days also :)
17:59<themill>Jflesch: perl 5.10 transition is enough to make the heart flutter though.
17:59<djc>themill, well, its a way, at least ;)
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17:59<Jflesch>hm, dunno, I haven't notice any problem with Perl during my upgrades
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18:00<InkBottle>I had wifi (madwifi) working a couple of minutes ago, but after upgrading I forgot to "m-a". Hence I reboot under the previous kernel; But I don't succeed to get wifi.
18:00<djc>if you server with the fixed IP is one you have root access to, you can just enabled GatewayPorts in the sshd config, and use the first answer
18:00<djc>InkBottle, so reboot again and select the new kernel
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18:01<djc>or whatever kernel is that works
18:01<djc>whats m-a ?
18:01<djc>I love it how people jump into the middle of something without explaining where they are coming from
18:01<InkBottle>djc: but I don't have rj45. Is it ok?
18:01<djc>InkBottle, i have no idea what you are talking about
18:01<InkBottle>m-a module assistant
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18:02<InkBottle>djc: thanks for saying :)
18:02<Jflesch>InkBottle: you don't need rj45 to compile your modules with m-a if you've already installed the source before with apt-get
18:02<djc>what the heck is 'module assistant'
18:03<dpkg>somebody said module-assistant was a tool helping to build additional (kernel) module packages and generate/install .deb packages with them, or aptitude install module-assistant && m-a prepare
18:03<InkBottle>Jflesch: it says it doesn't have the kernel header
18:03<Jflesch>InkBottle: then apt-get install kernel-headers-xxx before rebooting on your new kernel ?
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18:04<themill>something like "m-a -l 2.6.26-1-686 prepare" should work. You should even be able to build the source for the other kernel with the -l option
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18:04<Jflesch>why did dpkg said that m-a *was* a tool [..] ? oO
18:05-!-Chupaguig [] has joined #debian
18:05<themill>Jflesch: "somebody said it was".
18:05<snoggleby>Sorry if this is basic, but what's the difference between sources.list and sources.list~?
18:05<themill>Jflesch: it's the saying that is in the past tense not the tool :)
18:05<InkBottle>Jflesch: I already reboot. That why after I re-reboot under the "previous" kernel; to have network to be able to retrieve the headeres I don't have; but here I can't make the wifi work; any idea? I searched the net; I know rebboting under the previous kernel is what to do in this case; but...
18:05<Jflesch>themill: oh k
18:05<djc>your editor makes a backup of the file
18:05<themill>snoggleby: the ~ file is a backup created your editor
18:05<snoggleby>ah okay
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18:06<rgimenes>djc, im back
18:06<djc>nothing looks at the ~ file, except you, if you find you've made a hosemess out of the first one
18:07<djc>rgimenes, ok
18:07<Jpdota>Hey I use Debian and Fedora on this system, and it seems that they don't want to cooperate in terms of time. If I set one correctly, the other is wrong and vice versa, I have tried with my motherboard at UTC and with it at Localtime. Does anybody have ANY ideas as to what I can do other than be annoyed by logfiles being wrong all the time? :D
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18:07<Jflesch>InkBottle: If I understand correctly, you don't have network access at all even if your previous kernel ? oO
18:07<InkBottle>Jflesch: right :)
18:07<rgimenes>dtc, "wait for the root file system"
18:08<BillGates>why would the kernel effect internet access
18:08<rgimenes>djc, /dev/sda2 does not exist dropping to a sheel
18:08<InkBottle>Jflesch: but with the previous kernel I should succeed getting an network acces
18:08<djc>BillGates, nic driver
18:08<themill>Jpdota: I presume you have both distros set to use UTC and have the TZ set correctly for both?
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18:08<djc>rgimenes, and you get a shell?
18:08-!-de_user [] has left #debian []
18:09<themill>!waiting root
18:09<dpkg>If you've recently upgraded your kernel and your system hangs at "waiting for the root filesystem", this may be from the libata transition. /dev/hd? disks might now be known as /dev/sd?. At the grub menu, press e to edit the entry, change the ROOT= part, then press b to boot. You need to edit your /boot/grub/menu.lst and perhaps also your /etc/fstab. Also ask me about <can't mount root> <uuid>
18:09<Jpdota>themill: I'm not really sure how to be certain tbh :X
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18:09<djc>themill, it looks like he was using /dev/sda before as well
18:09<themill>Jpdota: debian sets that in /etc/default/rcS. nfc about $distro.
18:10<themill>djc: oh... not so good :(
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18:10<Jflesch>InkBottle: I don't know what's wrong with your previous kernel, but you can try to get kernel-headers-xxx.deb from another computer, put it on usb key, and then dpkg -i it on the target computer
18:11<djc__>at that shell, do:
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18:11<Jflesch>(hm, the wifi signal of my neighboor is becoming really crappy, I have to go, sorry)
18:11<djc__>rgimenes, yeah, it might be related to that.. but
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18:11<djc__>reboot liek that again
18:11<djc__>and do:
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18:12<djc__>dmesg | grep -5 WD3200
18:12<djc__>try to remember what it says..
18:12<djc__>also so:
18:12<gnumm>do oyu have any explication why kde isf aster and snappier in debian and arch linux for example than in other mainstream dists like kubuntu, opensuse or fedora
18:12<djc__>dmesg | grep sda
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18:13<InkBottle>Jflesch: what I will do is to find a work-in-any-situation-with-a-rj45 /etc/network/interface file; then restart with a cable; but since I 've got only one cable I won't be here during the while. Whould you have a bullet proof interface file?
18:13<djc__>rgimenes, that output from those may shed some light
18:14<InkBottle>Jflesch: with dhcp
18:14<Jflesch>InkBottle: dhcp on eh0 ?
18:15<InkBottle>Jflesch: yes
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18:15<BillGates>I think the ink has left the inkbottle
18:15<Jflesch>InkBottle: k, 2s
18:15<InkBottle>BillGates: I'm laughing but I don't understand :)
18:16<goodxandros>hahaha BillGates is your name cool
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18:16<InkBottle>BillGates: ok I got it
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18:17<InkBottle>Jflesch: thanks
18:17-!-tatotat [~tato@] has quit [Quit: Salu pues!!]
18:17<InkBottle>Jflesch: 4 lines :)
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18:17<Jflesch>InkBottle: anyway, crappy wifi signal + work tomorrow => I have to go, bye
18:17<goodxandros>i actualy admire that its ballsie to do that in such a channel
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18:18<InkBottle>Jflesch: bye
18:18<rgimenes>djc, wait im going to reboot
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18:19-!-mode/#debian [+l 400] by debhelper
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18:20<goodxandros>man this distro is weird
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18:21<goodxandros>i like mounted this drive in media and it doesnt download files but it will let me copy and paste or drop and drag files
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18:22<goodxandros>they work after that also
18:22<goodxandros>but no dl
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18:22<goodxandros>doesnt see it as a good dir
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18:26<snoggleby>Well, I got the ATI drivers installed and my computer's running great now. Thanks for the help
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18:29-!-mode/#debian [+l 394] by debhelper
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18:32<Praxis>Just did a fresh install of the Lenny stable KDE CD #1, I'm looking in my sources.list and it has SQUEEZE. WTF?
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18:33<Praxis>cat /etc/debian_version
18:33<craigevil>5.0 is lenny
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18:34<Praxis>Right, what I don't understand is why squeeze was listed in my sources.list.
18:34<adama>I am running squeeze and that file says 5.0 anyways
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18:34<djc__>i installed from a lenny cd the other day and there is no squeeze in my sources.lst
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18:35<Praxis>Well, I can change it, no harm done, just wondering what was going on.
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18:37<adrin>hello is there a tool in debian to check for configuration files(/etc/) updates ?
18:37<adrin>(simillar to etc-update under gentoo)
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18:38<adrin>i just didnt update some exim4 cfg files
18:38-!-tux [] has joined #debian
18:38<adrin>and now smtp no longer works :/
18:38-!-goodxandros [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
18:38<adrin>i just want to rerun the tool
18:38<craigevil>even sid still says Debian 5.0, that will probably change
18:38<djc__>what do you mean by 'smtp no longer works'
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18:38<dr|z3d>adrin: Try fam.
18:38<djc__>are you running a mailserver?
18:39<Nemoder>you can try dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config
18:39<djc__>if you are running a mailserver you should be maintining your own mta config files
18:40<dpkg>from memory, fam is a piece of software that monitors changes in inodes to track missing or deleted files. It is required by efm, and it is a bitch to compile with g++., or, or something that requires an apt-get install portmap, or if lack of FAM is killing your courier-imap, build courier-imap from upstream source
18:40<djc__>eg, you are on a fixed IP, have domain MX records pointing at your server, and receive mail from other servers via smtp
18:40<djc__>if you are not in that situation, use your isp's mailserver
18:40-!-tux [] has left #debian []
18:41<djc__>eg, a workstation/desktop(laptop) machine doesnt need an MTA
18:41<adrin>ok what i mean is ... i need to rerun the tool used to overwrite config files (it prompts whether to use old config or overwrite with new one) so that i can answer Y instead of N and fix my exim4 config
18:41<djc__>and a server should be configured by someone that writes their own config
18:41<adrin>yes the config has been written
18:42<adrin>Setting up exim4-config (4.69-9) ...
18:42<adrin>DEBCONFsomethingDEBCONF found in exim configuration. This is most probably
18:42<adrin>caused by you upgrading to exim4 4.67-3 or later without accepting the
18:42<adrin>suggested conffile changes.
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18:42-!-adrin was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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18:42<djc__>if there is a domain with an MX record poing at your server, you should not be using the 'stock' config that comes with a *nix distribution, you should be using your own custom-written config
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18:42<djc__>if there is a domain with an MX record poing at your server, you should not be using the 'stock' config that comes with a *nix distribution, you should be using your own custom-written config
18:43<djc__>if you do NOT have MX records pointing at you, then you do not need to run exim
18:43<adrin>i do have MX records
18:43<adrin>of course
18:43<djc__>you have a fixed IP and hostname?
18:43<adrin>yes i do bind configured
18:43<adrin>and running like 2 years now
18:43<adrin>exim also
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18:44<djc__>then you should write your own exim config
18:44<djc__>not use one that comes in a dpkg
18:45<simonrvn>erm, what? no need to do that....
18:45<djc__>if you dont understand how to configure your MTA, you've no business running ne
18:45<djc__>'stock' configs that come in packages are crap
18:47<adrin>but anyway.. is there a tool to update configs by themselves?
18:47<adrin>like having merge/overwrite/leave old version choices
18:47<djc__>there is no tool that will automagically write the correct site-specific configuration for your mta
18:48<adrin>i dont want to use automagically written config i want the 'stock' one
18:48<adrin>from debian
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18:48<adrin>and dont know how to get it
18:48-!-dkr [] has joined #debian
18:48<adrin>no command like etc-update?
18:49<djc__>stock aka 'sample, not for use on a real site'..
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18:50<adrin>so how can you explain
18:51<adrin>that it has been running on modified stock config files
18:51<djc__>no idea. try removing and reinstalling exim
18:51<adrin>for 1 year
18:51-!-famelix [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:51<djc__>im not saying it cant run
18:51-!-reneger [] has quit [Quit: reneger]
18:51<djc__>im sure there are tons of sendmail servers in china running 'stock' configs
18:51<djc__>which is why so much spam gets relayed through china
18:51<simonrvn>djc__: which is why exim is installed to run locally only
18:52<simonrvn>by default
18:52<djc__>which serves no real purpose
18:52<adrin>so no 'etc-update' equivalent from gentoo in debian?
18:52<djc__>by default no mta should be installed
18:52<simonrvn>you have to explicitly enable it to run as a 'regular' mta.
18:53<djc__>a workstation doesnt need an mta
18:53<djc__>a server should have one configured by someone that knows what they are doing
18:53<simonrvn>djc__: right. so you think cron should get an empty response when it tries to send you a cronjob email.
18:53<simonrvn>your argument is full of holes, imo.
18:54<simonrvn>i do understand your logic however.
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18:54<dinomite>adrin: updating configuration files happens inline with the upgrading when using apt-get
18:55<simonrvn>which is why it listens only locally. does not relay, does not, mail stuff out, etc.
18:55<simonrvn>does not mail stuff out*
18:55<adrin>dinomite: thanks that was the answer i was looking for
18:56<simonrvn>debian's default configuration isn't the sample one. the packagers have taken the time to set it up properly.
18:56<djc__>for whose server?
18:57<djc__>there is no universal 'properly'
18:57<simonrvn>*all* debian installs. *it's in the packages*
18:57<simonrvn>no, like i described.
18:57<djc__>anything that comes with packaged software, wether from the package author or a distribution, is a sample
18:57<simonrvn>that's where your argument for "someone should know what they're doing" comes in.
18:57<djc__>if you need to run a real mailserver, you need to write a site-specific real config
18:58<simonrvn>it is not a sample. only upstream's is.
18:58<djc__>at least as far as an MTA
18:58<djc__>if its not site-specific, its a sample
18:58<djc__>even if it thinks otherwise
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18:58<themill>djc__: for the average desktop machine though, the debconf configuration is quite adequate -- only listen on localhost, only pass mail of to the mailhub.
18:58<simonrvn>yes it is, to a limited extent. one word: debconf.
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18:59<djc__>the average desktop machine is not a mailserver, and does not need to run mailserver software
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19:00<djc__>since the average desktop user is going to have real email somewhere (either webmail, or an ISP-provider) account, they arent ever likely to check the 'root@localhost' mailbox on their workstation
19:00<djc__>therefore no mail should be delivered there
19:00<simonrvn>djc__: don't get me wrong here. i agree with you setting an mta properly should be done by someone competent. i'm arguing that the as-installed default mta (exim4) in debian is done that way. the only difference is that it has debconf questions to set that up. if you can't deal with that, go bug the DDs involved.
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19:01<djc__>I dont care what the debian devs do
19:01<simonrvn>it's not. now you're getting on my nerves, and i think you're talking outta your ass, since you seem to not have even looked at the configuration.
19:01<djc__>I've seen it.
19:01<themill>djc__: /msg dpkg why an mta
19:02<djc__>I've also been writing exim configs for going on ten years now
19:02<simonrvn>djc__: obviously you do care, otherwise we wouldn't be having this convo.
19:03-!-Phocean [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:03<djc__>all I care is that:
19:03<djc__>a workstation doesnt need an mta
19:03-!-mezod [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: )]
19:03<djc__>and, if you need to run a real mailserver, you need to write a site-specific real config
19:03<simonrvn>i happen to disagree.
19:03<themill>djc__: so how does cron tell you on your workstation that there's a problem with $cronjob?
19:03<djc__>actually, ive just stated those
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19:04<simonrvn>with "a workstation doesnt need an mta" i meant
19:04<djc>but if someone asks me 'how do I get the config files for exim'
19:04<djc>my answer will always be:
19:05<djc>1. if you are running a public MTA with mx pointing at it, you man exim, and google exim, and write one
19:05<enouf>dig a hole and bury it in the yard?
19:05<djc>and 2. if you are running a workstation, you dont need to run exim at all
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19:05<themill>djc__: so how does cron tell you on your workstation that there's a problem with $cronjob?
19:05<twb>It is bloody annoying how exim4 is now installed by default, but not configured (with tasksel/first=standard).
19:05<djc>it doesnt
19:05<twb>Because mail is silently queued on the host.
19:06<twb>Who's kids do I have to kidnap in order to get this changed?
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19:06<themill>dpkg: tell twb about reportbug
19:06<djc>themill, what average user is going to check the local root mailbox? or even know its there?
19:06<twb>themill: bah.
19:06-!-marko [] has joined #debian
19:06<twb>themill: it's not a bug in exim4, but a bug in d-i or something.
19:07<simonrvn>djc: it doesn't even go to root
19:07<djc>they arent going to check any local mailbox
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19:07<themill>twb: that doesn't matter. A bug is a bug and can be reassigned
19:08<djc>so its just going to build up there until it fills up the drive
19:08<themill>djc: that's why I specified "pass mail off to the mail hub"
19:08<djc>to what address?
19:08<djc>what mailhub?
19:08<themill>the one you configured through debconf...
19:08<djc>i dont recall the install asking me anything about that
19:09<djc>so if I hadnt specifically disabled exim after install, becuase I *do* know what I am doing, what would it have done?
19:09<themill>that's because you didn't bother learning about it and decided ranting was more fun
19:09<themill>djc__: But seeing as your attitude "I dont care what the debian devs do" is another way of saying that you're not participating in the debian community so you have no right to complain. Either send patches and bug reports or stfu, that's how it works.
19:09<djc>fixing an exim config isnt something for a distribution to do, its something to be handled locally on an individual machine
19:09<djc>so if I hadnt specifically disabled exim after install, becuase I *do* know what I am doing, what would it have done?
19:10<djc>what mailhub would it have sent mail to?
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19:10<djc>the average user isnt even going to think about it.. they are either going to use their webmail, or configure something like evolution to read their ISP mail, and never know there is even any such thing as cronjob email
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19:13*simonrvn also decides to *plonk*
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19:18<Arcalyth>Hi all.. can anyone help me getting my suspend/resume working properly? I've been trying to get help for some time to no avail... here's a forum post explaining my problem:
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19:20<InkBottle>what is the command that execute /etc/network/interfaces? /etc/initd/network start?
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19:20<simonrvn>ifup, ifdown. you'll want /etc/init.d/networking anyway
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19:25<InkBottle>simonrvn: my wifi card is functionning, (I can scan access points), I have configured wpa (changed -Dmadwifi to -Dwext)... still don't work
19:25<simonrvn>i don't do wifi
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19:30<eepberries>Hi, I'm having trouble getting Debian set up to display Japanese text. I have the recommended Japanese fonts installed, but it still won't display in Iceweasel and I can't select any of the Japanese fonts in writing programs.
19:30<eepberries>What should I try from here?
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19:40<Nemoder> seems to be working fine for me
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19:41<eepberries>doesn't work for me
19:41<eepberries>all the actual text is a bunch of blocks
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19:43<dkr>eepberries: iceweasel-l10n-ja is installed?
19:43-!-TheThomps [] has joined #debian
19:44<eepberries>dkr: what's that?
19:44<dpkg>Use `dpkg-reconfigure locales' to get it up and running. This generates locale definitions and also edits /etc/default/locale which sets the $LANG environment variable at login time.
19:44<eepberries>that will let me display japanese text right? i don't want to majorly change things since mostly i'm dealing with english
19:45<Nemoder>I only have US locales, and not that -ja package, perhaps it's just some unicode problem?
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19:46<dkr>eepberries: ignore my suggestion, yeah, don't need that. I display japanese fine without it. out of all the packages listed by aptitude search '~t japanese' I only have ttf-sazanami-gothic and ttf-sazanami-mincho installed
19:46<dkr>(the fonts)
19:47<Nemoder>I don't have those installed either
19:47<dkr>I'm using lenny, btw
19:47<eepberries>yeah same
19:47<eepberries>just installed last night
19:47-!-SGWineo [] has joined #debian
19:47<chitta>hi all, I have just installed lenny on my thinkpad and can
19:48<chitta>can't get wifi to work. I've tried looking online for directions but am confused. Anyone faced a similar problem?
19:49-!-mode/#debian [+l 400] by debhelper
19:49<dkr>eepberries: does the View...character encoding... show the page at least being interpreted as utf-8?
19:49<eepberries>let me check
19:49<eepberries>yes, it does
19:49<jifix>chitta: which thinkpad do you have?
19:50<chitta>x 200
19:50<SGWineo>I've got a noob-to-linux question. Just installed Lenny. So I've used all-GUI set-ups, where I install something like with ubuntu's GUI package manager, and all-shell set-ups, like gentoo with #emerge. I know debian has a package manager, I just installed with LXDE and its not an option there so I assume I'll be installing from command line which is fine, Q is:
19:50<Nemoder>eepberries: dpkg-reconfigure locales and turn on en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8
19:50-!-duraperidol [~nohost@] has joined #debian
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19:51<jifix>chitta: this site will help you ""
19:51<SGWineo>I make /home most of my hard disk, 7GB debian, 50GB /home, what do I have to do to make sure I'm downloading to /home and not base system? should I just do from my usr not root, or do packages get installed to /home no-matter what?
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19:51<eepberries>Nemoder: that's already selected
19:52<jifix>chitta: look at this tutorial ""
19:52-!-pschless [] has joined #debian
19:54<jifix>chitta: follow this "" too
19:54<chitta>@jifix thanks. i tried the iwlwifi driver but still can't get it to work. i was wondering if there was anything I might have missed. i will check again and see if it works.
19:54-!-jifix [] has quit [Quit: free as in freedom not as free beer.]
19:54<InkBottle>My wifi card is working, but I can't have a connection
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19:55<enouf>SGWineo: why not just move all of what's in /var/cache/apt/archive over into /home/user/archive and make a symlink to it from /var
19:55<InkBottle>any link to help?
19:55<SGWineo>havn't installed anything yet, just want to know how/make sure it will be installed to /home directory
19:55<SGWineo>or under* /home
19:56<InkBottle>it might be a problem with the wep
19:57<enouf>chitta: which chip is it?
19:57<Nemoder>eepberries: oh, I do have ttf-kochi-gothic-naga10 installed
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19:58<eepberries>Nemoder: yeah i have that installed already
19:58<eepberries>the weird thing is that i can't see any of the japanese fonts in text editors, but i know they're installed. i can see them in the font inspector program
19:58-!-honschu [] has joined #debian
19:58<enouf>chitta: i would think the article is very specific for you - but note there's also
19:59<chitta>@enouf I have the intel chip
19:59<enouf>eepberries: does dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config help?
19:59<chitta>thanks for the link
19:59<enouf>chitta: which one?
19:59<enouf>chitta: i already knew it was intel , since you said iwlwifi
20:00<chitta>how can i check that?
20:00<enouf>chitta: lspci -nn
20:00<chitta>5100 agn
20:00-!-ekhtor [] has joined #debian
20:01<eepberries>enouf: uh this is asking alot of questions about how fonts are handled
20:01<ekhtor>alguien que hable españoL?
20:01<eepberries>hinting, etc
20:01-!-Hydroxide [] has quit [Quit: rebooting my irc client machine, back soon]
20:01<chitta>thanks. will check that out
20:02<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
20:02<ekhtor>sorry and thanks for the info!
20:02<enouf>eepberries: no idea - never ran it :-P
20:02<enouf>eepberries: are you using KDE? or GNOME?
20:02<SGWineo>does debian come with a built-in package manager?
20:03<eepberries>enouf: xfce
20:03-!-ekhtor is now known as elweco
20:03<enouf>SGWineo: dpkg/apt/aptitude
20:03<SGWineo>enouf: thx
20:03<enouf>eepberries: hrm .. maybe you want to do some update-alternatives --config ...
20:03<enouf>eepberries: to set things as "defaulkt"
20:04<enouf>eepberries: hrm .. maybe you want to do some like update-alternatives --config x-session-manager and select something like startxfce4...
20:04<chealer>InkBottle: define "having a connection"
20:04<enouf>sorry - lame - but
20:04-!-elweco [] has quit []
20:05<eepberries>looks like that's already selected
20:05<enouf>well - the fonts you seem to have installed are not "system" fonts perhaps, but browser specific or someshit - i dunno - did you add the locale support yet?
20:05<eepberries>don't think so
20:05<enouf>SGWineo: /msg dpkg grounding
20:06<enouf>SGWineo: see debian reference
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20:06<enouf>!tell eepberries -about locales
20:06-!-hkm [~hkm@] has quit []
20:06<PinkyDW>got a noob question if anyone has time
20:06<eepberries>enouf: is that going to set japanese as the native language?
20:07-!-azeem [] has joined #debian
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20:07<enouf>eepberries: no, not if you just add support for it
20:07<Pryon>PinkyDW: if you don't ask it will take much longer
20:07<PinkyDW>ah, sorry
20:07<PinkyDW>I keep getting the error unable to install busybox using the netinstall
20:08<enouf>eepberries: you set the default language there too - which will show in echo $LANG and echo $LANGUAGE and /etc/environment , and /etc/default/locale if exists
20:08<PinkyDW>its right after kernel selection
20:08-!-Hydroxide [] has joined #debian
20:08<eepberries>enouf: am i supposed to select ja_JP.UTF8 - UTF8?
20:08-!-azeem_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:09<enouf>eepberries: if you want - sure - just don't Deselect your main choice
20:09-!-azeem-un1 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:09<eepberries>enouf: if that's optional then what am i doing screwing around with this locales thing in the first place
20:10<enouf>you can have things like this;
20:10-!-jcwu [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:10<eepberries>dpkg-reconfigure locales brings up a locales configuration menu
20:10<SGWineo>what the. are programs not ment to be installed under /home? whats the point of making it so big with auto-partition :/ music i guess?
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20:11<enouf>ofcourse it does -- see how it's like PATH= ?
20:11<eepberries>well, right now en_US.UTF-8 is selected
20:11<enouf>and? when you select another one, it just appends to it
20:12-!-azeem-uni [] has joined #debian
20:12<eepberries>so you're saying that i should select one for japanese text?
20:12-!-rettub [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:12<enouf>yes - that's what i'm thinkinf
20:12<enouf>i'm not 100% sure ofcourse
20:13-!-What-s_my [] has joined #debian
20:13<enouf>if you want to have Japanese fonts available in your editors and apps, then i'd think you'd need the jp locale support
20:13<eepberries>should i try restarting or what
20:13<eepberries>so far nothing's changed
20:13<enouf>i mean, how else could you type/edit them?
20:13-!-path [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:13<eepberries>i wouldn't
20:13<eepberries>i just want to display japanese text
20:13<enouf>eepberries: i guess just restart your DE
20:14-!-Lemonzest [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
20:14<SGWineo>1 last question: I plan to use 2 window managers, im sure they will but want another opinion. for my 1 user, will both use the same /home? (still getting used to switching from WM to shell to WM
20:14<enouf>eepberries: see if there are any l10 pkg sets you need to install ... but i'd think it will autoinstall them ...
20:14-!-tristan [~tristan@] has joined #debian
20:15<dpkg>it has been said that ddtp is the Debian Description Translation Project, read all about it at
20:15-!-jtaji [] has joined #debian
20:15<dpkg>i guess l10n is an abbreviation for localisation, which is a long word used a lot in some circles, so it's shortened by effectively saying "L, then 10 more letters, then N", get it?
20:15<dpkg>i guess i18n is an abbreviation for internationalisation, which is a really long word used a lot in some circles, so it's shortened by effectively saying "I, then 18 more letters, then N", get it?, or
20:15<eepberries>i see
20:16<eepberries>man i can't believe i could get the ati drivers properly installed but i can't get the OS to display japanese text
20:17<enouf>eepberries: maybe xfce4 has some sort of Control Center/Panel where you tell it that you have installed System Fonts or something
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20:21<enouf>wow - heh - man /usr/share/man/man5/fonts-conf.5.gz .. then there's 'defoma' (though i heard it's deprecated a bit? no idea) Man i suck at this
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20:26<chealer>SGWineo: What is your native language?
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20:37<InkBottle>failed to load module ati
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20:40<tristan>I have a problem, and I'm not sure if it's simple or difficult to fix
20:41<Slurb>whats wrong?
20:41<tristan>my processor is an AMD Sempron 3000+, and I'm very sure it's not 64b (as some are)
20:41<tristan>but when I enter "cpufreq-info"
20:41<tristan>the driver being used is powernow-k8
20:41-!-digitaloktay [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
20:41<tristan>which appears to be for 64b Athlon/Semprons
20:42<tristan>but I can't load powernow-k7 for some reason
20:42<tristan>it tells me the device doesn't exist
20:43<Slurb>well from what im reading it is a 64bit processor
20:43<Slurb>try k8
20:43-!-stevecotton [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:43<tristan>I am pretty sure I got it before 64 bit processors were even out
20:44<tristan>back in '05-would that be right?
20:46<Slurb>i dont know
20:46<enouf>tristan: grep flags /proc/cpuinfo
20:46<tristan>seems to indicate it could be 32 bit
20:47<enouf>tristan: see any 'lm' ? if so, it's 64bit
20:47<enouf>tristan: i have an amd64 3000+ which is s754 so wrong
20:47-!-scientes [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:48<enouf>but - the 1st Semprons lied, and advertized as 64, but weren't
20:48<tristan>last item is lahf_lm
20:48-!-djc__ [~djc@] has joined #debian
20:48<tristan>so... 64b?
20:48<enouf>tristan: show me your flags line
20:49<enouf>it's one aspect of 64 .. but .. show me the line
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20:50<tristan>fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clfflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt 3dnowext 3dnow up lahf_lm
20:51<tristan>what do flags indicate?
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20:53<sinead>greetings everyone
20:53-!-boy_have_ML [~so_sweet@] has quit []
20:53<enouf>tristan: one sec - please use my nick ;-)
20:53<tristan>enouf: no problem
20:53<sinead>is this channel for asking help about debian and ubuntu ?
20:54-!-juanjo [] has joined #debian
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20:55<InkBottle>after a full upgrade, avahi-discover (still) doesn't work.
20:55-!-djc [~djc@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:56<enouf>tristan: #define X86_FEATURE_LM (1*32+29) /* Long Mode (x86-64) */
20:56<enouf>seems you got jipped
20:57-!-djc__ [~djc@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:57<enouf>* Early Intel CPUs with Intel 64 lacked LAHF and SAHF instructions available in AMD64 until introduction of Pentium 4 G1 step in December 2005. LAHF and SAHF are load and store instructions, respectively, for certain status flags. These instructions are used for virtualization and floating-point condition handling.
20:57<enouf>define X86_FEATURE_LAHF_LM (6*32+ 0) /* LAHF/SAHF in long mode */
20:58<enouf>tristan: plus, there's no 64 in your AMD Sempron name .. so atleast our Kernel devs aren't fooled ;-)
20:58<enouf>tristan: newer Semprons do say AMD64 Sempron ... IINM
20:59<enouf>tristan: so, go with all 32bit
20:59-!-azeem_ [] has joined #debian
20:59<tristan>enouf: you have me a tad lost on the define business, but I figured it was 32bit
20:59<enouf>upgrade the s754 CPU to a Venice for $40 :-)
21:00<enouf>tristan: it's just kernel C code - see here
21:00<tristan>enouf: I've never upgraded a processor on a laptop
21:00<enouf>careful then ;-)
21:00<enouf>i did't realize it was a Craptop :-)
21:00-!-rmayorga [rmayorga@] has joined #debian
21:00<tristan>enouf: mobility is useful when you're a student
21:01<enouf>tristan: SFF ftw :-P
21:01<tristan>enouf: why do you suggest a venice?
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21:01<enouf>tristan: just a more recent core that i know they fixed some shit in, and was also avail as s754 IIRC
21:02-!-Slurb [jon@VDSL-130-13-96-36.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:02<enouf>maybe not .. now i forget
21:02-!-yanash [~yanash@] has quit []
21:02<enouf>see - select English
21:02<enouf>unless you're JP ;-)
21:02<tristan>tristan: gotcha, I'll look into it.
21:02<tristan>I'm out
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21:05<enouf>AMD added 64bit function to Sempron in July, 2005.
21:05-!-amphi_ [~amphi@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:06<enouf>Mobile Sempron doesn't support 64bit function. We found 64bit function to be not effective even if it was Mobile Sempronm of DH-E6. It was confirmed with Mobile Sempron2800 on 46 weeks of 2005.
21:06-!-amphi [~amphi@] has joined #debian
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21:07<enouf>shame s/he left
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21:18<dpkg>hmm... debhelper is a collection of programs that can be used in debian/rules files to automate common tasks related to building debian binary packages. For further documentation, see the man pages for dh_* commands. For an overview of debhelper, see the debhelper man page. #debian's eggdrop bot
21:18<blarson>!tell nathan__ about ask
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21:20<nathan__>i am neal777 for game name lol
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21:24<SparTacuS|BNC>buenas, alguien que hable español por aca
21:25-!-InkBottle [] has left #debian []
21:25<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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21:31<npviewer-cpu>Hey guys, anyone knows why npviewer.bin is using so much CPU? its a bug? there are any solution?
21:31-!-jpinx [~johnp@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:33<npviewer-cpu>i will be happy if anyone help me seach solutions. Lets google it?
21:34<djc>what is npviewer?
21:34<djc>it isnt anything thats part of debian
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21:35<djc__>what is npviewer?
21:35<djc__>i find no file or directory by that name,
21:36<npviewer-cpu>npviewer is the flashplayer used by iceweasel
21:37<enouf>np == netscape plugin ?
21:37<npviewer-cpu>i dont kno
21:37*enouf strips npviewer-cpu of his -cpu
21:37<adb>npviewer-cpu: do you know him ? >> resume-prob (
21:37-!-Caroll [caroll@] has quit [Quit: Saindo]
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21:37<enouf>ribbit mr mibbit
21:38<npviewer-cpu>intall used to be myself why?
21:38<npviewer-cpu>used to be myself why?
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21:38<djc>anyway, what is npviewer?
21:39<djc>i cant find anything by that name in debian
21:39-!-lopes [] has joined #debian
21:39<npviewer-cpu>as resume-prob i found the solution to that problem, install new fglrx driver
21:39<npviewer-cpu>well, its a .bin
21:39<djc>you might want to use a nick that identifies you, rather than what your current problem is
21:39<adb>sweet manner to choose nick, npviewer-cpu
21:39<lopes>anybody brazilian?
21:40<djc>searches are substring
21:40<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
21:40<djc>there is nothing *npviewer* in my install of lenny, or anywhere in the package manager
21:40<npviewer-cpu>do you use iceweasel? what flashplayer plugin do you use?
21:40-!-lopes [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:40<djc>hrm.. according to google...
21:41<djc>ok, its a flash plugin
21:41<djc>i appaear to have 'swfdec' installed
21:41-!-nathan__ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:41<enouf>FlashCrapPoopShit sucks ass man
21:42<djc>i didnt specifically install it, so im guessing its the default
21:42<djc>and yes flash is crap, in general
21:42<esop>There is talk that the 64bit version of npviewer or nspluginwrapper or whatever has a bug and is crashy and a memory hog.
21:42<djc>valid uses include platform-independent video (youtube) and entertainment (
21:42-!-Guest395 [~djc@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:43<npviewer-cpu>yes i use AMD64
21:43<djc>websites that are not videos and are not entertainment, should not use flash
21:43<enouf>there is no 'valid' use
21:43<enouf>only stupid lusers
21:43<esop>dpkg !lart npviewer
21:43<dpkg>esop: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
21:43<enouf>nothing wrong with ogg/theora nor even mpeg to a degree
21:44<npviewer-cpu>yes, but some entertainment is goog for all peoble
21:44<simonrvn>mpeg is fine...
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21:44<enouf>you likely want nsplugin-wrapper then
21:44<enouf>or the beta pos
21:44-!-mateu [] has joined #debian
21:45<djc>i cant seem to hold a tcp connection to same my damn life
21:45<npviewer-cpu>did have a good flashplayer for AMD64 without bugs?
21:45<enouf>npviewer-cpu: use windows
21:45<npviewer-cpu>no way
21:45<enouf>yes - linux isn't for you, if flash is a priority
21:45<mateu>Is apt fine for upgrade from etch -> lenny?
21:45<npviewer-cpu>its NOT a priority
21:45<BillGates>flash is a priority for everyone
21:46<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, upgrade is what keeps your box from getting r00ted, or what you do with apt-get. Do an apt-get update first, and then an apt-get upgrade. ask me about 'security', or if you upgrade to a new stable version, read the release notes first Ask me about <sarge->etch> <etch->lenny> <lenny->squeeze>
21:46<BillGates>npviewer youtube is flash
21:46<simonrvn>!tell mateu -about lenny release notes
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21:46<BillGates>hulu flash
21:46<enouf>how's the dumpster smelling ?
21:46<npviewer-cpu>its NOT a priority, i just wat it to use some things sometimes, without bug
21:47<BillGates>whats that lil guy? you talking to me?
21:47<mateu>peoples are telling me apt is not official for upgrade, but dpkg says otherwise
21:47<simonrvn>mateu: what do you mean exactly?
21:47<dpkg>from memory, lenny is the binoculars, or the code name for the current stable Debian release, version 5.0, released on 2009-02-15: Ask me about <lenny release notes>, <install debian>, <etch->lenny>, <release history> <installer firmware>
21:47<simonrvn>see that "...current stable Debian release..." ?
21:48<mateu>i'm happy w/ apt and want to do update upgrade as usual
21:48<djc>mateu, it is fully valid to use apt to upgrade
21:48<mateu>thanks, sorry to bother.
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21:48<simonrvn>mateu: just update as usual, if you have "stable" in sources.list
21:48<npviewer-cpu>mateu, aptitude is better to treat dependencies. u can try it too
21:49<simonrvn>and yes, i'd suggest using aptitude
21:49<enouf>what's with the dc man?
21:49<djc>aptitute is just a frontend to apt
21:49<simonrvn>enouf: eh?
21:49<mateu>i want apt that's alll.
21:49<enouf>simonrvn: not you
21:49<enouf>i use apt - that
21:49<enouf>s all
21:49<simonrvn>i know, just wondering what you're talking about
21:49<enouf>dc == disconnect
21:49<npviewer-cpu>ok mateu, no problem, just an sugest
21:50<enouf>it's pissin off our mailman
21:50<simonrvn>enouf: nods
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21:50<mateu>npviewer-cpu: alright, it's just I'm very happy with apt and need nothing more.
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21:50<enouf>djc__: stop that
21:50<enouf>maybe you should install an MTA :-P
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21:50<djc>i wish i could.. ive been seeing that before, but it seems much worse this evening
21:51<djc>wonder if its weather related
21:51<djc>lemme check wrt
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21:51<simonrvn>if that's your mailman, i can see why he's grumpy all the time :P
21:52<djc>getting lots of frame errors on rx
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21:52<djc>maybe the other end needs a reboot
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21:53<djc>ok im popping out to reboot some routers
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21:54<npviewer-cpu>back to my problem, havent a way to use flash on AMD64, without bug? (its not a priority, its only for when i want use)
21:55<npviewer-cpu>(sometimes we need to enter a webpage that uses flash, is for that)
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21:56<simonrvn>32 bit chroot?
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21:56<enouf>!adobe flash
21:56<dpkg>Adobe Flash Player is non-free and cannot be in a stable debian release because Adobe doesn't provide security support for older versions (see The easist way to install flash is with the flashplayer-mozilla package from; there is also a flashplugin-nonfree package for sid and users. Ask me about <dmm> <non-free> <bpo> <flash64beta>
21:56<dpkg>To use the beta flash non-free player without running into problems in usermode download the tar.gz from, mkdir /home/`whoami`/.mozilla/plugins and copy the extracted .so into it.
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21:58<enouf>the funny thing is - none (afaict) seem to take into account if any of the other 4000 versions are installed too
21:58<npviewer-cpu>i did what flashplayer64beta shows.
21:58<enouf>it's like watching the sid users who recently are upgrading ;-)
21:58<simonrvn>in ff/iceweasel you can choose one, and deactivate the others
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21:59<BillGates>weasels are nasty lil creatures
21:59*simonrvn adds another *plonk*
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22:07<GT>So, how is it that I go about changing which video card driver I'm using in lenny?
22:08<GT>dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg only took me through the mouse and keyboard stuff...
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22:10<SGWineo>Hi, I've been using mIRC on my Windows PC, free time expired, now want to do IRC from linux PC I finally got setup. What debian supported IRC client would any of u recommend? If possible: similar to mIRC
22:11<djc>I use xchat
22:11<djc>no idea as to its similarity with mIRC
22:11<djc>ive never used windows for anything
22:12<djc>hrm.. still getting lots of frame errors but i seem to beholding my connection here, at least
22:12<SGWineo>^^ new to linux here, just did my 3 first installations, and first failed installation (a windows app on wine[the 2nd install lol])
22:12<GT>djc: You've been helpful before! Do you know how to change the video card drivers X is using?
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22:12<djc>'drivers' is really the wrong term
22:12<GT>Really? o.o
22:12<GT>That's what the packages say... What are they?
22:13<djc>there are differnt X servers, each designed for a certain video board, or group of them
22:13<djc>probably the packagers just called them that to avoid confusing people coming from windows
22:13-!-angasule [~angasule@] has joined #debian
22:13<djc>but regardless, its in the x config
22:13<djc>which on debian is...
22:14<djc>but you might not want to edit that by hand
22:15<GT>I checked, there's nothin' in it to edit. It just says "Configured video device."
22:15<djc>i see
22:15<djc>hang on
22:16<SGWineo>xChat: special features: mIRC extension and mIRC color... sounds good to me thx djc :P
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22:21<THX>How do I create a partition in windows xp so I can do a dual boot?
22:21<djc>probably you already have one partition taking the entire drive.. you need to make that one smaller, so you can create another for another OS
22:21<dpkg>You can partition your hard drive by breaking it up into one or more pieces, or "partitions". Partition manipulators include <fdisk>, <cfdisk>, sfdisk, <parted> and <gparted>. Also ask about <list partitions>. Linux Partition HOWTO: Linux Partitioning mini-FAQ:
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22:21<djc>!resize partition
22:22<djc>!shrink partition
22:22<Ethaniel>And you can't resize in XP without a third-party utility.
22:22<Ethaniel>BTW, hi everyone.
22:22<GT>Hi, Ethanial!
22:22<djc>yeah I knew that.. was hoping dpkg had a suggestion
22:22<THX> I see partition magic is popular, but it costs 70 bucks!
22:22<djc>you could buy a second HD for that
22:22<Ethaniel>And... it's old.
22:23<djc>which, incidentally, you could buy a second HD instead, and use that
22:23<Ethaniel>The Acronis utilites are much more interesting, but there must be an open source alternative....
22:24<THX>yeah, I could install another HD but I got like 100 gigs of empty space
22:24<THX>on my current hd
22:24<djc>back up data, wipe drive, reinstall windows?
22:24<djc>making a smaller partition first
22:24<THX>yes, but they didn't give me recovery disks, and they let me only do 1 set which looks scratched
22:25<THX>from the recovery partition
22:25<THX>hmm, I could delete the recovery partition
22:25<djc>hard drives are cheap these days
22:25<adb>use debian-installer to resize windows partition
22:25<djc>GT, im still trying to figure out where debian selects the X server
22:25<djc>adb, uh,,, since when can it do that
22:26<Ethaniel>Anyone had problems with repositories in the last hours?
22:26<Ethaniel>I mean, one or two hours ago.
22:27<Ethaniel>I had to retry "apt-get install (whatever)" a few times.
22:27<adb>djc: in Section "Device" the Driver option
22:27<adb> cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf
22:27<djc>adb, yeah, thats where I would expect
22:27<djc>but in GT's, and mine, there is nothing but a comment there in that section
22:28<djc>Section "Device"
22:28<djc> Identifier "Configured Video Device"
22:28<adb>nevermind add " Driver "vesa" , or so
22:28<djc>Yeah, sure one could edit that..
22:28<adb> Driver "fbdev"
22:28<djc>but the question is, how does it work the way debian has it setup
22:29<djc>which X server does it run
22:29<Ethaniel>(No more XMMS in Lenny?)
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22:29<adb>nowaday xorg it detect the driver automatic
22:30<GT>I'm not-not-not so sure about that, adb. Ubuntu switched to something like this, too, and when I tried to change things in it's xorg.conf, I beleive it really just messed things up. The only way I could change it was by using this little graphical utulity that was provided with the system (which was a shoddy piece of crap.)
22:31<adb>GT: do a lspci -nn |grep VGA
22:31<djc>adb, he knows what one he wants to use
22:31<djc>GT, and from what I read in the xorg.conf, its safe to edit
22:31<GT>Yeah, nvidia-glx.
22:31<djc>so, go ahead and add a Driver line in it
22:32<djc>and try it out
22:32<adb> Driver "nv"
22:32<djc>worst case scenario, X is dead, and you have to log in on text console
22:32<djc>and edit it back
22:32<djc>adb, he wants to switch to the nvidia driver
22:32<djc>rather than the free one
22:33<adb>GT: but mayby better use m-a to add nvidia driver
22:33<dpkg>hmm... module-assistant is a tool helping to build additional (kernel) module packages and generate/install .deb packages with them, or aptitude install module-assistant && m-a prepare
22:33<djc>its more than just a kernel module
22:34<djc>resizeing partitions:
22:34<djc>not sure how that would work prior to having an installed running linux system
22:34<djc>livecd maybe
22:35<adb>djc: during installer , resize is default installed
22:35<djc>google, and ye shall receive :
22:35<GT>Well, gparted has a Live CD, but I've actually had some bad experiences with it.
22:35<djc>does the installer use gparted?
22:36<djc>anyway.. THX was the on asking
22:36<djc>i have no windows partition ;)
22:36<GT>I'm not sure what the debian installer uses to resize partitions exactly, but I think it has the same roots as gparted. I know for sure that it works, but I don't know about NTFS partitions.
22:36<djc>not since about 10 minutes after I brought this laptop home from the store
22:37<GT>You know, when I want to change my partitions, I usually just use my Ubuntu thumb drive.
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22:38<GT>Which may seem a bit... Not so good somehow, but it's the most reliable thing I've used so far.
22:38<GT>Which isn't too far.
22:38<GT>Anyway, restarting X!
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22:43<GT>Didn't work!~
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22:44<GT>Let the record show that editing /etc/X11/xorg.conf does not work anymore!
22:44<djc>well, it might work but there might be some other problem
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22:45<GT>Hmm? Such as?
22:45<djc>dunno.. try this
22:45<djc>re-edit xorg.conf
22:45<djc>does init 3 disable X in debian like in others?
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22:46<adb>djc: no
22:46<djc>was going to suggest he shut down gui, and run --probeonly
22:46<djc>to see what X says about vidcards
22:46<adb>GT: grep Driver /etc/X11/xorg.conf
22:46<djc>adb, is there a way to tell gui loign not to run?
22:47<adb>kill xinit , or edit /etc/X11/default*
22:48<djc>killing it it will just restart
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22:49<djc>kill xinit will just kill the current session
22:49<djc>and gdm will come back
22:49<adb>comment out /etc/X11/default*
22:49<djc>want to turn off X completely, so he can use startx or X with --probeonly to see what debug output it gives
22:50<djc>ok.. i see that now
22:50<djc>GT, go edit /etc/X11/default-display-manager
22:50<djc>it will have just gdmlisted there
22:50<djc>comment that out
22:50<djc>then run
22:50<adb> then install xinit
22:50<djc>from cli
22:50<djc> startx -- -probeonly
22:51<djc>you'll get a bunch of info, look for errors
22:51<djc>run that with xorg.conf having your nvidia driver
22:52<GT>You know, this is really the first time I've ever said this to someone in a help chat before, but I think you guys are wrong. I'm gonna go search for answers elsewhere.
22:52-!-GT [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
22:53<djc>al.. right
22:53<djc>i should go to bed anyway
22:54<adb>another *plonk*
22:54<adb> as [03:57:58 ] * simonrvn adds another *plonk*
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22:58<adb>!judd versions nftsprogs
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23:00<adb>judd: versions nftsprogs
23:00<judd>adb: nftsprogs --
23:01<adb>hmm no more in debian ?
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23:03<chealer>adb: N*TF*S
23:03-!-kapil [] has joined #debian
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23:07<adb>chealer: ah. thx
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23:08<WEW>adb ?
23:09<adb>but still not in http://p.d.o
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23:11<WEW>What for to me this chicken-feed
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23:12<adb>judd: versions ntfsprogs
23:12<judd>adb: ntfsprogs -- etch: 1.13.1-6+b2 lenny: 2.0.0-1 sid: 2.0.0-1 squeeze: 2.0.0-1
23:13<adb>hmm , strange http://p.d.o has no results for this
23:14-!-syd [] has joined #debian
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23:15<syd>so I'm pretty new to Debian, and I'm getting stuff from the debian-multimedia repository...was I supposed to know that upgrading packages from there would brake things like vlc?
23:15<syd>could have sworn the line in sources said stable
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23:17<adb>chealer: yes , but no forward for packages
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23:18<chealer>adb: I don't understand what you mean
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23:21<adb>just click on a packages for your arch we get Internal Server Error
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23:28<chealer>adb: oh, yes. packages.d.o has this issue since a number of hours
23:29-!-kapil_ [] has joined #debian
23:29<adb>chealer: maybe, but i can't find it in /pool no more
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23:30<chealer>adb: which server are you looking at?
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23:36<syd>wow, I'm still a noob, but apt-cache works great...completely undid that upgrade and vlc is working again
23:36<adb>chealer: ah , thx
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23:41<adb>chealer: yes , but still not in lenny :
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23:44<adb>chealer: it's ok , sorry
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23:48<Valtiel-ASD>hi people !
23:48<Valtiel-ASD>how to set date and time in terminal
23:49<Valtiel-ASD>without x server ??
23:49<Valtiel-ASD>i need to change wrong time
23:49-!-Guest448 [~djc@] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
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23:49<adb>date [-u|--utc|--universal] [MMDDhhmm[[CC]YY][.ss]]
23:49<Valtiel-ASD>maybe i need edit some config file i don't know
23:50<Valtiel-ASD>i'l try it
23:50-!-Guest447 [~djc@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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23:51<Valtiel-ASD>please give me an example
23:52<adb>date -u 0219045109.10
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23:55<Admins>äîáðûé äåíü ìîæåò êòî ïîìîæåò îáíîâèòñÿ ñ linux-imagr-2.4 äî 2.6
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23:57<dpkg>Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @
23:57<adb>Admins: ^^^
23:59-!-mode/#debian [+l 376] by debhelper
23:59<Valtiel-ASD>debian-russia - idiots
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---Logclosed Thu Feb 19 00:00:09 2009