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#debian IRC Logs for 2009-02-24

---Logopened Tue Feb 24 00:00:02 2009
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00:01<NSAJEFF>Any ideas why when I enter "ssh root@ottawahost." I get a connection denied but if I enter "ssh" I get name or service not known
00:02<simonrvn>no root login allowed? screwed up dns?
00:02<NSAJEFF>just checked, root is allowed
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00:03<NSAJEFF>how do I check to see if dns is 'screwed' up. Not much experience with that
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00:05<kop>NSAJEFF : Do they resolve to the same IP?
00:05<NSAJEFF>I'll check
00:05<kop>NSAJEFF : You use dig, as in "dig ottawahost."
00:06<kop>NSAJEFF : Or: dig ottawahost
00:06<kop>NSAJEFF : But to debug the resolver you need "getent hosts" because that's what your applications see.
00:08<NSAJEFF>I'm kind of baffled now. Everything is fine
00:08<NSAJEFF>Did a quick ping and 100% received.
00:08<NSAJEFF>Tried connecting via http, no problem
00:08<NSAJEFF>Just ssh giving me problems..
00:09<NSAJEFF>$ ssh
00:09<NSAJEFF>ssh: Name or service not known
00:09<kop>Any reason that I can't use an etch X client with a lenny X server or vice versa?
00:10<stew>kop: there should be no reason, the protocol hasn't changed
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00:11<kop>NSAJEFF : ssh wants to do reverse lookups and can be configured to insist on keysigning of things that might contain hostnames. Or something like that.
00:11<kop>NSAJEFF stew : Thanks.
00:11<NSAJEFF>kop, you just gave me an idea!
00:12<NSAJEFF>bah, screw it. I'm going to bed for the night. Thanks anyways kop
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00:15<joss>can i mount like /dev/hda2/somedir as roott filesystem without modifying init or making new initrd?
00:20<joss>just chrooting is needed i think then, where should it be written in debian?
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00:22<tcsetattr>you basically want to use a chroot as your real root?
00:24<tcsetattr>I can't think of a way to do that other than putting a chroot command in initrd/initramfs
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00:24<joss>tcsetattr: indeed, dunno how to do that
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00:24<joss>switch_root i guess was there for busybox and some pivot_root, whats the debian way?
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00:28<arisv>where is this zd_rf.c in debian, cannot find it. any ideas?
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00:36<Valtiel-ASD>why a can't write an image with debian
00:36<Valtiel-ASD>it's to big
00:36<Valtiel-ASD>nothing of free disk space
00:37<Valtiel-ASD>for writing
00:37<Valtiel-ASD>disk iso image 4.39 and disk space for writing 4.38
00:37<Valtiel-ASD>how it could be ?
00:38<Valtiel-ASD>1 DVD
00:38<Valtiel-ASD>from 5
00:38<Internat>am i missing something or, is your message wrong?
00:38<Valtiel-ASD>2 and 3 write good
00:38<Internat>iso = 4.39, available space = 4.38?
00:38<Valtiel-ASD>but 1 isn't
00:38<Valtiel-ASD>new blank dvd disk
00:39<Valtiel-ASD>fnd dowloaded iso dvd image from debian org
00:39<Internat>oh dvd disk.
00:39<Internat>i see what your writing to now.
00:39<Internat>i assume youve verified your download with the md5 sum?
00:39<tcsetattr>show your command and show the error message. don't paraphrase.
00:39<Valtiel-ASD>i just download it
00:39<Internat>i would suggest you go verify the iso to confirm it didnt download wrong.
00:40<Valtiel-ASD>i download an i386 and amd64 first dvd disks
00:40<Valtiel-ASD>with wget
00:40<Valtiel-ASD>on fedora core 7
00:40<Valtiel-ASD>and try write this on mac os x
00:41<Valtiel-ASD>with standard burn disk utility and with toast titanium roxy
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00:41<Valtiel-ASD>and a can't write
00:42<Valtiel-ASD>toast and disk utility write an error nothing avilable free disk space on dvd disk
00:42<tcsetattr>I bet it's operator error. your burning program is putting the ISO fs inside another ISO fs. I've seen it many times with people who insist on using graphical front ends for CD/DVD writing
00:43<Valtiel-ASD>ok i will try burn it on linux
00:44<joss>tcsetattr: actually during installation this is asked also wher is the mountpoint, i think from fstab this is not changeable, to use root filessystem from someotherdur then /
00:45<joss>that is to use /mnt/expperimental as /
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01:15<Valtiel-ASD>write failed input/output error
01:16<Valtiel-ASD>whar a f**k
01:16<dpkg>"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." - Terry Pratchett, Eric
01:16<Valtiel-ASD>how can i write this f*cking dvd image
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01:47<Valtiel-ASD>alcohol 120% don't write to
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01:47<Valtiel-ASD>not enought free disk space
01:47<Valtiel-ASD>what a f*uck ???!!
01:47<lunovis>Valtiel-ASD: once upon a time, i burned a dvd on one computer, who then read and mounted it happily. then i carried the dvd to the second computer, who said "i don't want this!". in the end, i found a way to do what i wanted, without any dvds.
01:48<Valtiel-ASD>ho to write debian dvd image
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01:48<Valtiel-ASD>i dont want write 16 cd
01:48<dondelelcaro>Valtiel-ASD: growisofs -dvd-compat -Z /dev/dvd=debian-fooimage.iso
01:49<Valtiel-ASD>i want 5 dvd
01:49<dondelelcaro>Valtiel-ASD: so download the DVDs and burn them or purchase them
01:49<Valtiel-ASD>i dont known chaineese
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01:52<lourens>Hi, I am new here. I hope this is the correct forum for my question. I just installed Lenny. I downloaded the net install cd image and installed from there. I might have made a wrong turn somewhere because after the installation I had a very minimal system with no X. I installed X manually and all went well. I got it running but it still booted to a text console from where startx worked fine. I then installed gdm but it still booted to a console. I insta
01:52<lourens>lled xdm, still no joy. I tried dpkg-reconfigure for both xdm and gdm but it made no difference. I tried fiddling with the runlevels but have since learned that Debian treats them differently than most distro's and it made no difference. Please help me make this box boot to a graphical login.
01:53<jm_>does gdm try to run?
01:53<jm_>what is in this file: /etc/X11/default-display-manager ?
01:53<lourens>Not as far as I can see xdm does try though
01:54<jm_>then check your X logfile
01:54<jm_>ok so it's gdm that tries to start
01:54<Valtiel-ASD>dondelelcaro thanks
01:54<Valtiel-ASD>it's working
01:54<lourens>please direct me to the X logfile.
01:54<jm_>it's /var/log/Xorg.0.log
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01:56<lourens>there is no reference to xdm or gdm in the X logfile.
01:56<jm_>no, but errors etc. will be in there
01:56<dondelelcaro>lourens: there wouldn't be; the question is whether or not xdm or gdm start at boot
01:57<lourens>No errors (lines starting with (EE) in the logfile.
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01:57<jm_>put it on a pastebin site
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01:58<lourens>dondelelcaro: it doesn't start. The only message I get on the boot screen is that xdm is not the default.
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02:00<dondelelcaro>lourens: that's because gdm is; /etc/init.d/gdm start; should tell you what is going on there.
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02:01<jm_>xdm also told you how to make it default when you installed it
02:01<lourens>jm_ i tried that but it did not work
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02:02<jm_>lourens: well it doesn't matter, either should work, so the error must be in X not starting
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02:02<lourens>jm_ X starts fine, so does xdm and gdm if I start them from the console they just dont start on boot.
02:03<jm_>lourens: ok it would help if you mentioned such things -- check its runlevel symlinks then
02:04<jm_>bootlog might also help
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02:05<lourens>jm_ I am not sure what you mean. I thought that Debian don't really care for the runlevel as does other distro's
02:05<jm_>or perhaps it's something ala modules not loaded at the time it tries to run
02:05<jm_>lourens: all distributions care - cd /etc && find . |grep gdm
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02:07<lourens> i get this among others ./rc5.d/S30gdm
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02:07<lourens>Does this mean I should make my default runlevel 5?
02:07<bdpa>what up u guys
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02:10<chealer>lourens: no
02:10<lourens>Jm_ I see now that there is a similar line for 2,3,4 as well.
02:11<Valtiel-ASD>it's don't boot now ((((
02:11<Valtiel-ASD>i need multiboot disk
02:12<Valtiel-ASD>when i try boot this disk it's don't work
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02:17<Valtiel-ASD>dondelelcaro this is not booting installation
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02:17<Valtiel-ASD>what a fuck
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02:19<lourens>jm_: I tried to run the S30gdm script in rc2.d and got: 'Warning: Fake start-stop-daemon called, doing nothing.'
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02:19<lunovis>Valtiel-ASD: unless you're installing to a machine that can't network, burning anything but the netinst is overkill, imho
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02:20<Valtiel-ASD>i need ordinary dvd disk with installation on boot
02:20<Valtiel-ASD>but it's don't working on start
02:21<Valtiel-ASD>i chek it on wmvare and on real computer
02:21<Valtiel-ASD>this is not boot on start
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02:22<Valtiel-ASD>i try ask on debian-russian but there stupid idiots
02:22<jm_>lourens: let me check
02:23<lourens>jm_: thanks
02:25<jm_>lourens: run dpkg -S /sbin/start-stop-daemon
02:26<jm_>lourens: also do ls -l /sbin/start-stop-daemon*
02:27<lourens>jm_: it's there.
02:28<jm_>lourens: what do they both print?
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02:28<lourens>the first one printed: 'dpkg: /sbin/start-stop-daemon'
02:29<lourens>jm_: the seccond: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 94 2009-02-21 17:49 /sbin/start-stop-daemon
02:29<jm_>that's not right
02:30<lourens>jm_: I am getting the feeling that something went wrong during the installation.
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02:30<jm_>lourens: yes, try reinstalling dpkg with: dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/dpkg_*deb
02:32<lourens>jm_: OK, its done.
02:32<jm_>lourens: is the size of the file bigger now?
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02:33<lourens>jm_: yes: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 18868 2009-02-03 00:13 /sbin/start-stop-daemon
02:33<jm_>lourens: ok it should work now
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02:33<lourens>jm_: Thanks I am gonna try it. Will be back shortly.
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02:37<lourens>jm_: that worked. Thank you very much. It also solved the next problem that I was going to attend to. Hal and acpi did not start before and now they are working. Any idea how this could have gone wrong?
02:38<jm_>lourens: not really no, are you sure you have the stable netinst CD?
02:39<lourens>jm_: that might be it. I got it from a secondary mirror because it was closer to me.
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02:39<jm_>lourens: enable bootlogd, similar problems of the same fashion will be much easier to solve with that
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02:40<lourens>jm_: how do I do that?
02:40<jm_>lourens: edit /etc/default/bootlogd
02:41<lourens>Thanks, it is done.
02:43<lourens>jm_: thank you for your help.
02:43<jm_>lourens: no worries
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03:11<pinglin>what is the best way to start java programming on debian? what tools & packets & environment & IDE should be installed?
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03:24<Woet>using tar -lf foobar.tar, I can list the contents of a tar. Is it possible to do this but only show the files that already exist, which will be overwritten?
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03:26<jm_>tar has --diff switch
03:26<Woet>hmm, thanks, let me have a look
03:27<Valtiel-ASD>how to make bootable debian dvd disk ?
03:28<jm_>debian installation discs are bootable
03:28<Txt-file>Valtiel-ASD: download dvd-image and burn it to a dvd-sisk
03:28<Woet>jm_: it outputs it in a way that is unable to grep upon
03:28<Valtiel-ASD>i download a first dvd disk
03:28<Valtiel-ASD>debian lenny
03:28<Valtiel-ASD>and i can't burn it
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03:29<Valtiel-ASD>if i burn it growisofs it don't boot
03:29<jm_>how did you burn it?
03:29<Txt-file>Valtiel-ASD: where is the problem?
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03:29<Txt-file>!burn a disc
03:29<jm_>Woet: how exactly is that not greppable?
03:29<Woet>jm_: the output just gets outputted
03:30<Woet>grepping or '> foo' does not do anything
03:30<jm_>Woet: that's why it's called output
03:30<Woet>it'll output anyways
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03:30<Valtiel-ASD>disk image to big for dvd disk
03:30<pinglin>what is the best way to start java programming on debian? what tools & packets & environment & IDE should be installed?
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03:30<Woet>jm_: 'ls -all | grep test' works
03:30<Valtiel-ASD>nothing avilable disk free space for burning
03:30<nano->Does udev have anyting to do with the interfaces described in /etc/network/interfaces? I'm having a server here that both interfaces are named eth1.
03:30<jm_>Woet: I have no idea what your problem is, it works just fine for me
03:30<Woet>jm_: 'tar -df foobar.tar | grep test' does not work
03:30<Txt-file>pinglin: try eclipse & openjdk as jre
03:30<Valtiel-ASD>i chek it on 3 os
03:30<jm_>Woet: WFM
03:31<Valtiel-ASD>mac os
03:31<Valtiel-ASD>and linux
03:31<dpkg>methinks wfm is Works for Me, or some strange corruption of hopwfm, or what fucking manual?
03:31<Valtiel-ASD>different programs
03:31<jm_>nano-: yes
03:31<pinglin>Txt-file: thanx
03:31<Valtiel-ASD>alcohol 120%
03:31<Valtiel-ASD>roxyo toast titanium
03:31<Valtiel-ASD>disk utility
03:31<Valtiel-ASD>and nothing
03:32<Txt-file>Valtiel-ASD: stop flooting the channeo
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03:32<jm_>!tell Valtiel-ASD -about enter
03:32<Woet>i think grep considers it 1 line
03:33<Woet>hm, it doesn't
03:33<jm_>Woet: 2>&1 | grep
03:33<pinglin>how to register my nick here?
03:33<Woet>that works
03:33<Woet>so how could the normal command work for you, jm_?
03:34<jm_>Woet: uhm that is normal
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03:34<Woet>jm_: odd.
03:34<jm_>Woet: no, there's nothing odd - you were only grepping its stdout
03:34<jm_>but errors are printed on stderr
03:34<Woet>i see!
03:35<Woet>my bad
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03:40<yang>Are these 2 options compatible if being put toghether into /etc/network/interfaces
03:40<yang>auto eth0
03:40<yang>allow-hotplug eth0
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03:48<pinglin>if I want to paste log with errors I receive where should I paste it?
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03:48<jm_>!tell pinglin -about paste
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03:53<pinglin>here is my question and logs Please help!!! :)
03:54<jm_>do you have grub installed?
03:54<jm_>ru ls -l /usr/sbin/update-grub*
03:55<pinglin>ls: cannot access /usr/sbin/update-grub*: No such file or directory
03:55<pinglin>or maybe I didn't understand?
03:55<jm_>are you sur eyou have grub installed? dpkg -s grub ; dpkg -S update-grub
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03:56<pinglin>Package: grub
03:56<pinglin>Status: purge ok not-installed
03:56<pinglin>Priority: optional
03:56<pinglin>Section: admin
03:56-!-pinglin was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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03:58<jm_>so you don't hve grub installed
03:58<jm_>but I don't know what dpkg -S said
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04:00<pinglin>grub or grub2?
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04:01<jm_>well both of them have update-grub command which you are missing
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04:05<pinglin>installed grub
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04:07<jm_>pinglin: run dpkg --pending --configure
04:09<pinglin>done without errors
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04:09<pinglin>but dpkg -S update-grub still gives an error with sernet-samba
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04:10<jm_>that may be because there's a bug in the package or you have some other issues
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04:10<pinglin>how to remove broken kernel?
04:11<jm_>how is the kernel broken?
04:11<pinglin> - please see original log errors
04:11<pinglin>I get this every time when installing packages
04:12<pinglin>Linux ahrytskiv 2.6.18-4-686 #1 SMP Mon Mar 26 17:17:36 UTC 2007 i686 GNU/Linux
04:12<pinglin>it is result of uname -a
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04:14<jm_>we have just fixed this error
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04:16<xxl>hi ppl
04:16<xxl>anyone familiair with the network-manager-pptp package in debian?
04:16<xxl>I cant edit any stored vpn connections
04:17<xxl>they simply dont show up when I try to configure an existing connection
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04:20<pinglin>jm_: Thank you !!!
04:22<jm_>pinglin: np
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04:31<alt1>hi all
04:32<alt1>try to setup hotspot, is any alternative to chilli?
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04:44<pinglin>I have problems with free space on /.
04:44<pinglin>/dev/hdb3 6.5G 5.9G 213M 97% /
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04:45<Valtiel-ASD>use resize2fs
04:45<Valtiel-ASD>disable journal
04:45<Valtiel-ASD>and resize
04:45<Valtiel-ASD>boot on live cd
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04:46<jm_>pinglin: du -sh /var/cache/apt/archives
04:46<Valtiel-ASD>tune2fs -O ^has_journal /dev/hdb3
04:46<Valtiel-ASD>and on /home
04:46<pinglin>I have not needed partition. Can I use it to increase space on root?
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04:48<pinglin>jm_: remove /var/cache/apt/archives?
04:48<Valtiel-ASD>resize /home and /
04:48<Valtiel-ASD>- /home
04:48<Valtiel-ASD>+ /
04:49<Valtiel-ASD>you need tune2fs resize2fs
04:49<Valtiel-ASD>read man
04:49<Valtiel-ASD>and google
04:49<Valtiel-ASD>i resize swap on lvm\
04:50<Valtiel-ASD>but i think it's work for your
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04:51<Valtiel-ASD>or use gparten on live cd
04:51<Valtiel-ASD>for resize
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04:52<Valtiel-ASD>people help me i can't write dvd disk image of debian lenny on blank dvd disk
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04:52<jm_>pinglin: use apt to remove it if you don't need it
04:52<Valtiel-ASD>image to big for dirsk
04:52<Valtiel-ASD>i don't know what must i do (((
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04:53<Valtiel-ASD>first dvd image from debian org
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04:55<pinglin>thanks . I'll try
04:55<Valtiel-ASD>i was try read with growisofs -dvd-compat /dev/dvd=debian...i386.iso and it's not boot
04:55<Valtiel-ASD>i think it's lost bootable
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04:57<loup>i have a problem with openoffice in lenny
04:57<jm_>maybe your computer can't boot from a CD - try using SBM and choose boot from CD in there
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04:58<Valtiel-ASD>i try wmvare
04:58<Valtiel-ASD>and other pc
04:58<loup>when i open a powerpoint presentation in full screen i hear no sound...on a windows openoffice sound works
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04:58<loup>do i need a package?
04:58<jm_>maybe your burner sucks
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04:58<Valtiel-ASD>i try on different computers
04:58<jm_>ok then you know wverything
04:58<Valtiel-ASD>on mac pro
04:59<Valtiel-ASD>and ordinary pc
04:59<jm_>debian CD-s are OK, and use netinst CD, you don't need DVD images
04:59<Valtiel-ASD>k3b and roxyo toast titanium
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04:59<Valtiel-ASD>standart disk utility and windows alcohol 120%
05:00<Valtiel-ASD>no i need dvd
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05:00<Valtiel-ASD>i want have an install kit with all pakages
05:00<Valtiel-ASD>without internet
05:00<Valtiel-ASD>just come and install all what i need for friends
05:00<loup>ALL packages?
05:01<Valtiel-ASD>update if i want it later
05:01<blast_hardcheese>PROTIP: deb-mirror onto a portable HDD
05:02<blast_hardcheese>What's that project that does audio waveform analysis of an input stream, then finds the closest match in its media library?
05:02<blast_hardcheese>it's like <something>hacks or something
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05:03<Valtiel-ASD>i don't want download 17-20 cd
05:03<Valtiel-ASD>i want 5 dvd
05:03<Valtiel-ASD>but first dvd can't writing
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05:18<aetheria>Valtiel-ASD, always check the md5sum of an image download before burning
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05:39<blast_hardcheese>Hey, I'm trying to mount a partition in a dd image I made, I tried -o loop,offset=512 (for the first partition) but it gives me wrong fs type
05:40<Valtiel-ASD> aetheria i download it from official site
05:40<blast_hardcheese>I figured skipping the first 512 bytes would skip the MBR and mount the partition directly
05:40<jm_>are you sure your first partition starts at offset 512?
05:41<jm_>it's typically at 63*512
05:41<jm_>since it starts on track 1
05:41<jm_>and how did you make the image?
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05:41<blast_hardcheese>jm_: Oh, crap. Forgot to calculate sectors
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05:48<blast_hardcheese>jm_: Works wonderfully, thanks a bunch
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05:48<blast_hardcheese>now to figure out why my LCD quickly fades to white shortly after launching X11
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06:28<oz123>hi, I have a really basic question: I installed and configured exim. Now how to I test it works ??? Besides reporting bugs...
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06:29<oz123> hi, I have a really basic question: I installed and configured exim. Now how to I test it works ??? Besides reporting bugs...
06:29<oz123>sorry I got disconnected ...
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06:31<petemc>oz123: exim4 -bt
06:31<oz123>petmc, 10x, currently i can't log to my gmail, can i send it to another mail ?
06:32<petemc>that doesnt send any mails, it just a test
06:32<petemc>if you want to send mails, use a mail client
06:32<oz123>petemc, when i type exim4 as regular user it doesnt work, is this normal ?
06:32<petemc>its in sbin
06:33<Valtiel-ASD>anybody install debian lenny from dvd
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06:33<oz123>petemc, i get this error : cannot be resolved at this time: host lookup for smtp did not complete (DNS timeout?
06:34<petemc>does host -t mx work?
06:34<oz123>petemc, yes, i get a list of servers in return
06:35<petemc>exim4 -d -bt
06:35<petemc>that will show you what exim is doing
06:36<oz123>yes, i see a long output. just a moment while i read it
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06:37<oz123>petemc, after all the out put still comes this line: message: host lookup for smtp did not complete (DNS timeout?)
06:37<petemc>that seems strange as exim should use the same means as host to look up mx records
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06:39<oz123>petemc, maybe it's related to the fact I can't connect to any of my gmail accounts ???
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06:39<jpinx>petemc: gmail appears to be down atm
06:39-!-nm [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:39<steev>gmail has been down for the last hour and a half
06:40<petemc>the mx records work
06:40<jm_>but host -t mx works, so it's not relevant
06:40<oz123>jpinx, it's probably a really bad timing to set up exim4 and gmail, ha ?
06:40<jpinx>wow - unlike gmail to be down so long.......
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06:40<jpinx>oz - try the yahoo mail servers
06:40<steev>yes, but it's hardly a good test destination atm
06:40<petemc>why not?
06:40<petemc>no mails are being sent
06:41<zumbi>oz123: i can not connect to my gmail account either
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06:48<joss>anyone running vserver?
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06:50<jpinx>gmail is back
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07:00<mehdid>jpinx: not really
07:01<mehdid>I still have 502 errors ... that's a pita
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07:04<jpinx>mehdid: odd - I'm not getting problems now
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07:05<cellular>when i set iceweasel as preferred browser in gnome, epiphany still launches as defauly browser (i have debian lenny 5)
07:05<mehdid>jpinx: you are lucky :)
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07:05<Tekno>update-alternatives --config x-www-browser
07:06<Tekno>or gnome-default-applications-properties (do not run as root)
07:07<cellular>gnome-default-applications-properties don't work
07:07<Tekno>that command does not anything?
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07:11<zumbi>there are already news about gmail failure
07:11<g16>does anyone can help me please?
07:12<jpinx>zumbi: where?
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07:12<jpinx>g16: you need to ask your question first
07:12<zumbi>but i believe twitter was the first one to flag gmail's failure
07:13<g16>yes, i use ubuntu 8.10 but my compiz effect can not be enabled again after i installed virtualbox?
07:13<zumbi>g16: my debian compiz works perfectly :-)
07:13<themill>g16: try #ubuntu
07:14<g16>i think you are right, it desappear after i change to edubuntu
07:14<g16>thanks you guys
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07:15<themill>stew: oops. yes.
07:15*jpinx sets up imap for gmail
07:15<themill>g16: let me guess, you're using xchat?
07:15<jpinx>looks like that wasn't affected
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07:17<g16>yes themill
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07:17<themill>yay, another one for
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07:18<g16>themill:so it is because i install xchat on my ubuntu?
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07:18<themill>g16: no no... just you ending up here. Take your question to #ubuntu on and you'll get help there.
07:19<g16>ok. thank you themill.
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07:20*jpinx wonders if that really is a bug or is it a feature of ubuntu now ;)
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07:38<dpkg>[fi] Finland, or the end of an if block, or an abreviation for in FIFO First In First Out, or /join #debian-fi
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07:42<pinglin>trying to start oo3 gives such error
07:42<pinglin>please help
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07:43<jm_>does it work if you remove gcj?
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07:45<LL00>how can I install sid from businesscard? got error about linux-image-2.6-686
07:46<LL00>there is no linux-image-2.6.26-1-686 package?
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07:47<LL00> Package not available
07:47<jm_>there is
07:48<jm_>but not in sid
07:48<themill>judd versions linux-image-2.6.26-1-686
07:48<judd>themill: linux-image-2.6.26-1-686 -- lenny: 2.6.26-13 squeeze: 2.6.26-13
07:48<jm_>waiting for 2.6.28?
07:49<LL00>but how I can get squeeze or lenny linux-image with businesscard d-i?
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07:49<jm_>it's on debin-cd
07:49<jm_>debian too
07:49<themill>jm_: waiting on the buildds it seems
07:50<Astero1D>Hey guys. I have VMware running and was wondering how can I transfer files between vmware and linux?
07:50<LL00>I should cp anywhere inside in-target ?
07:50<jm_> -> Official businesscard images for the "stable" release
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07:51<LL00>using businesscard in order direct sid install
07:51<LL00>not stable -> sid upgrade
07:51<themill>!install sid
07:51<dpkg>There are no CD images available with which you can install sid. Often, sid is not actually installable at all as sid is frequently broken. You must first install "testing" and then "upgrade" to sid. If you don't know how to do this, then you shouldn't be using sid anyway. Ask me about <sid> <sid faq> <why not unstable>.
07:52<jm_>you asked where to get lenny business card d-i - that's the URL for it
07:52<themill>LL00: sid is frequently not installable. Consider this a test -- if you can't work this out yourself, you shouldn't be using sid.
07:52<LL00>themill, businesscard and priority=medium, you can select sid during d-i
07:52<jm_>I wonder why people insist so heavily oin installing sid directly, it really annoys me
07:53<themill>LL00: right, with the caveat that it often won't work.
07:53<themill>jm_: because it's so much more l33t...
07:54<LL00>I just wanna try install sid in VM, so why not direct install :)
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07:55<LL00>will try next time when linux-image for sid is ready so
07:56<LL00><Astero1D> Hey guys. I have VMware running and was wondering how can I transfer files between vmware and linux? <-- with vmware tools
07:56<Astero1D>LL00, is that a separate tool from player?
07:59<LL00>vmware tools you need to install it inside your guest
08:00<Astero1D>LL00, is there a separate download for that?
08:00<LL00>if your guest is a linux, you can get the .tar.gz and run it
08:00<dr|z3d>Astero1D: You might also look to install an ftp server, as an alternative.
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08:00<Astero1D>dr|z3d, I cant use ftp or http, I am using a wireless usb adapter and if wmvare is using it, linux cant and vice versa
08:00<LL00>yes, or you with vmware server it's included
08:01<jm_>vmware has sharing via a directory doesn't it?
08:01<Astero1D>jm_, does it?
08:01<LL00>yes and partition too
08:01<LL00>with hgfs
08:01<themill>yes. Or you can use samba/ftp/http/whatever over the dummy network devices it creates
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08:02<LL00>you can use ftp ou http for guest-host communication
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08:03<jm_>anyway, asking about vmware is offtopic here
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08:38<malinha> /server
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08:50<nikolam>hi I want to install iceape
08:51<nikolam>I installed lenny 5.0, what repo should I add to install iceape?
08:51-!-gogo39 [] has quit []
08:51<nikolam>Or i need to recompile iceape from testing to get it working on lenny?
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08:51<Lemonzest>iceape got removed
08:53<christoph>there is no iceape in lenny
08:53<nikolam>so i need to use testing to get iceape?
08:53<jm_>no, it's not in testing either
08:53<nikolam>or to compile it myself for lenny?
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08:54<nikolam>I was using Ubuntu, there is seamonkey there.
08:54<nikolam>Ok. so i need to make it.
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08:55<superjet_busy>nikolam: get it from mozilla
08:55<nikolam>superjet_busy, ok. but i like to install with deb ..
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08:56<superjet_busy>nikolam: so, you or someone need to build it first for lenny...
08:56<nikolam>I just got supprised iceape wasn`t there anymore.
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08:57<nikolam>I will , guess it is bpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -us -uc
08:58<nikolam>i was doing that on ubuntu, i found it in debian-reference how to do it
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08:58<jm_> read the changelog
08:59<themill>dpkg, iceape lenny is <reply>Iceape, the unbranded version of Mozilla Seamonkey for Debian is not in Lenny. See and
08:59<dpkg>okay, themill
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08:59<themill>dpkg: iceape is also See <iceape lenny>.
08:59<dpkg>okay, themill
08:59<nikolam>Oh I see, no volunteers
09:00<jm_>ahh it has source available only, that's why rmadison shows it - should be "easy" to build it
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09:01<nikolam>someone did it in ubuntu for seamonkey already
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09:02<superjet_busy>it's easy to do once, but maintain it will be another thing
09:03<nikolam>superjet_busy, I see then
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09:04<nikolam>Uhh, I am not sure I have enough capacity myself for that..
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09:06<nikolam>what development tools you are using when you are porting packages, anyway?
09:06<nikolam>I mean to make those diffs
09:07<superjet_busy>apt-get build-dep foo
09:07<nikolam>Ro make .dsc and diff
09:07<jm_>!tell nikolam about nmg
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09:34<nikolam>is it advisable to use synaptic in debian or it is better to use aptitude?
09:34<nikolam>Maybe there is some aptitude gui that I am unaware of?
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09:41<hjb>Hi. I'm running Debian lenny with gdm. Problem is: my .xsession isn't executed
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09:42<hjb>I've found that gdm uses a different Xsession script (/etc/gdm/Xsession instead of /etc/X11/Xsession)
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09:43<hjb>I've read it and it seems to not use ~/.xsession at all
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09:43<hjb>what it does is including an ~/.xprofile
09:43-!-JanC [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:43<hjb>should i use that one instead? Why isn't this documented?
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09:45<Jflesch>hjb: in gdm, in the list of sessions (gnome/kde/etc) I think you have a session called "Xsession"
09:46<Jflesch>if I'm right, this one will use your .xsession
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09:47<hjb>Jflesch ok. So i'm not able to use the session chooser and have a common startup file for every session type (gnome/kde/etc)?
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09:54<tetrimino>graphics problems!
09:54-!-bintang_mungil [~bintang_m@] has quit []
09:54<tetrimino>still can't install
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09:55<tetrimino>it says something about nvidia-kernel
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09:55<tetrimino>can somebody point me in the right direction
09:56<Jflesch>hjb: no
09:56<Tekno>install kernel headers
09:56<Tekno>for your kernel
09:56<tetrimino>how exactly?
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09:56<Jflesch>hjb: xsession is just one other kind of session for gdm (at the same level than kde or gnome)
09:56<tetrimino>btw im using KDE
09:57<tetrimino>found it..
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09:58<valdyn>hjb: why do you think that the Xsession file would point to ~/.xsession ever?
09:59<valdyn>hjb: gdm has a menu where you can select among several sessions
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10:01<oz123>petemc, you still here ?
10:01<oz123>gmail services are gone, but i still don't get what's wrong with exim4
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10:02<oz123>i keep getting cannot be resolved at this time: host lookup for smtp did not complete (DNS timeout?)
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10:02<petemc>pastebin exim4 -d -bt...
10:02<valdyn>oz123: so your dns is not working properly
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10:02<oz123>valdyn, is there a way to bypass it ?
10:03<petemc>oz123: your dns was working earlier#
10:03<petemc>test again with host -t mx
10:03<valdyn>oz123: how the hell do you want to deliver mail if you cant do dns lookups?
10:03<oz123>when you say "your dns" what you mean ?
10:03<valdyn>oz123: i mean that exim4 cant resolve host names
10:03<oz123>valdyn, I can do lookups, I can surf the net...
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10:04<oz123>valdyn, so how do i make exim aware to my dns ?
10:04<petemc>you shouldnt have to do anything
10:04<petemc>but feel free to ignore me
10:05<oz123>penpen, just a moment i am pasting the stuff
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10:07<slartibartfast>strange thing here ... installed lenny with netinstall - got grub error 15: file not found - but need to have now root (hd1,5) in menu.lst .... but on the kernel line root=/dev/sda6
10:07<oz123>petemc, is my paste
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10:09<petemc>oz123: you're not attempting to do a lookup with exim, you're delivering to gmail directly
10:09<petemc>which you havent bothered to mention before
10:09<slartibartfast>so grub wants to see the second hd for root ....... but the kernel wants to have the first hd as option
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10:10<petemc>oz123: and isnt the correct syntax
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10:10<oz123>petemc should be
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10:11<dr|z3d>Double colons are wrong. Use a single colon.
10:11<petemc>oz123: when you dont tell people things, everyone wastes their time trying to help you
10:12<dr|z3d>Also, afaik, works on either port 25 or port 465. This 587 business is news to me.
10:12<oz123>petemc, sorry - now I changed to should be ok
10:12<petemc>dr|z3d: 587 is the submission port
10:13<dr|z3d>petemc: Okeydoke. Something to read up on, then :)
10:13<petemc>oz123: did you read that guide?
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10:13<oz123>i did. but I also used a one which was much clearer to me
10:13<petemc>which was that?
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10:14<petemc>evidently it wasnt that clear..
10:14<tetrimino>how to install kernel-source in debian?
10:14<oz123>petemc, don't judge the guide, it was my typo
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10:16<pinglin>my crontab : 10 17 * * * /usr/bin/qbittorrent
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10:17<pinglin>I mean I want to start qbittorrent using cron but it doesn't work
10:17<hjb>valdyn because Xsession(5) says that. Ok, it says "for other display managers (other than xdm), consult their documentation", but gdm(1) doesn't say anything about startup files
10:18<pinglin>:-( can somebody help me
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10:18<hjb>Where are the default xsession scripts are located? I.e. if i select "awesome" from gdm, which script is executed?
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10:20<pinglin>how to start qbittorrent using cron?
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10:21<pinglin>10 17 * * * /usr/bin/qbittorrent - that doen't work
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10:21<adb>tetrimino: aptitude install linux-source-*
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10:22<tetrimino>adb yeah i got that far.. but i don't know which version im dealing with..
10:22<tetrimino>just standard debian 5 kde.. got any idea what that could be?
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10:23<tetrimino>thanks xD
10:23<adb>well only > linux-source-2.6.26_2.6.26-13
10:24<tetrimino>couldn't find package..
10:24<adb>add deb-src to sources.list and apt-get update
10:25<tetrimino>just deb-src?
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10:25<adb>deb-src lenny main
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10:27<tetrimino>didn't really fix anything.. still couldn't find it..
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10:29<boris_>pinglin: instead of the first five fields put ``@reboot''
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10:31<adb>tetrimino: apt-get update , get errors ?
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10:31<tetrimino>just still can find the package..
10:31<tetrimino>besides it turned out it already was in my sourcelist..
10:31<adb>you run lenny?
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10:31<tetrimino>yes i run lenny with KDE
10:32<tetrimino>never had this problem in etch...
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10:32<adb>than "dpkg -i linux-source-2.6.26_2.6.26-13_all.deb"
10:33<djc>teratoma, what problem you having
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10:35<tetrimino>Errors were encountered while processing:
10:35<tetrimino> linux-source-2.6.26
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10:36<tetrimino>lol sorry :D
10:37<tetrimino>adb now it done.. is possible for me to install my nvidia-drivers then?
10:37<adb>use m-a
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10:37<dpkg>somebody said module-assistant was a tool helping to build additional (kernel) module packages and generate/install .deb packages with them, or aptitude install module-assistant && m-a prepare
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10:38<alex__>есть кто из России?
10:38<dpkg>Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @
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10:39<adb>tetrimino: ah , was my error : needed >>> apt-get install linux-source-2.6.26
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10:39<tetrimino>but it's fixed now - right?
10:40<tetrimino>then you have my thanks :D
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10:43<tetrimino>adb it was said to be succesful.. i remember something about a command called glx-gears or something
10:43<tetrimino>to test it out
10:43<tetrimino>you know the exact command?
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10:44<alex__>по русски кто ферштейн?
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10:54<dpkg>deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in (auf, oder - German speaking users please go to (on, or DE == Desktop Environment
10:55<Tarcas>No, it's iCon, and good luck finding it in an Apple store. :-D
10:57<zumbi>dpkg: CAN is socketCAN
10:57<dpkg>...but can is already something else...
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10:58<djc>The russian message doesn't seem to be valid at google, at least the purported russian part
10:58<zumbi>dpkg: SocketCAN is a set of open source CAN drivers and a networking stack contributed by Volkswagen Research to the Linux kernel. Formerly known as Low Level CAN Framework (LLCF). See
10:58<dpkg>zumbi: okay
10:58<djc>I translated "For help in Russia please visit #debian-russian @" to russia and got "Для помощи в России, пожалуйста, посетите #"
10:59<dpkg>[can] question of capability, not permssion. You are quite capable of attempting anything you choose. If you're meant to ask permission instead, ask me about <ask>.
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10:59<djc>trying to translate what was there gave an error
10:59<zumbi>dpkg: CAN is also socketcan
10:59<dpkg>zumbi: okay
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10:59<zumbi>Tarcas: :-)
10:59<dpkg>from memory, can is question of capability, not permssion. You are quite capable of attempting anything you choose. If you're meant to ask permission instead, ask me about <ask>. socketcan
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11:00<Tarcas>Let's try this...
11:01<Tarcas>dpkg: CAN is also see also SocketCAN
11:01<dpkg>okay, Tarcas
11:01<dpkg>methinks can is well, can is question of capability, not permssion. You are quite capable of attempting anything you choose. If you're meant to ask permission instead, ask me about <ask>. SocketCAN project, ask me about <SocketCAN>, or see also SocketCAN
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11:01<zumbi>too redundant
11:01<Tarcas>d'oh. Someone else who knows how to use the bot system is editing it also.
11:02<zumbi>that was me
11:02<Tarcas>Take out my edit and it works. How do I revert it?
11:02<zumbi>but in &
11:02<djc>what the heck is a 'CAN' driver anyway
11:02<zumbi>dpkg: forget can
11:02<dpkg>zumbi: i forgot can
11:03<zumbi>dpkg: CAN is methinks can is well, can is question of capability, not permssion. You are quite capable of attempting anything you choose. If you're meant to ask permission instead, ask me about <ask>. SocketCAN project, ask me about <SocketCAN>.
11:03<dpkg>okay, zumbi
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11:03<dpkg>it has been said that can is methinks can is well, can is question of capability, not permssion. You are quite capable of attempting anything you choose. If you're meant to ask permission instead, ask me about <ask>. SocketCAN project, ask me about <SocketCAN>.
11:04-!-d0rt [] has joined #debian
11:04<djc>I tried editing !ru but it didnt like the russia characterset
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11:04<dpkg>Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @
11:04<djc>take the parts that appear to be russia and try to translate them at google translate, it comes up bupkis
11:05<djc>what it should be is
11:05<djc>Для получения справки на русском языке, пожалуйста, посетите #
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11:05<djc>but it wont take the cryillic
11:05<djc>or whatever that is
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11:05<djc>dpkg: ru is Для получения справки на русском языке, пожалуйста, посетите #
11:05<dpkg>i'm not going to learn illegal characters, djc
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11:06<zumbi>dpkg: you are smart
11:06<dpkg>I resemble that remark!
11:06<zumbi>!nick-meter djc
11:06<Tarcas>dpkg: change the character rules to allow Russian.
11:06<dpkg>that doesn't look right
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11:06<djc>if that had worked I would have been impressed
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11:06<Tarcas>That would have been ridiculous.
11:07<djc>dpkg: programming help
11:07<dpkg>no idea, djc
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11:07<djc>dpkg: version
11:07<dpkg>Kernel: uname -r. Debian: cat /etc/debian_version. and: dpkg -l libc6 | tail -n 1. Package: dpkg -l _pkgname_. Miscellaneous: try --version on the command. check /etc/apt/sources.list; run apt-cache policy <packagename>, or lsb_release -a, or cat /proc/version. Do cat /etc/{*version*,*release*,*issue*} which should grab almost all distros
11:07<djc>dpkg: bot version
11:07<dpkg>bugger all, i dunno, djc
11:07<djc>dpkg: irc version
11:07<dpkg>djc: I give up, what is it?
11:08<boris_>some stupid add this: into adblock lists
11:08<djc>anyone know who runs dpkg?
11:08<dpkg>Kernel: uname -r. Debian: cat /etc/debian_version. and: dpkg -l libc6 | tail -n 1. Package: dpkg -l _pkgname_. Miscellaneous: try --version on the command. check /etc/apt/sources.list; run apt-cache policy <packagename>, or lsb_release -a, or cat /proc/version. Do cat /etc/{*version*,*release*,*issue*} which should grab almost all distros
11:08<dr|z3d>dondelelcaro does.
11:08<zumbi>djc: donfede
11:08-!-d7rt [] has joined #debian
11:08<zumbi>djc: dondelelcaro, i meant
11:08-!-Breadcultist [] has joined #debian
11:08<djc>well maybe he can manually add it or something
11:09<zumbi>send him an email?
11:09<djc>might, if I knew his address
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11:10<Tarcas>!dondelcaro's E-mail
11:10<dr|z3d>djc: No need. Just message him in here. He's usually quite active.
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11:11<zumbi>He is from US West Coast, so probably he is sleeping
11:11<djc>would think that if he was non afk he would have already noticed his nick being mentioned
11:11<djc>assuming his irc client takes notice of those things.. mine does
11:11<zumbi>oh yes
11:11<Tarcas>8 AM there... could also be at work by now
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11:12<djc>dpkg: can you take a message?
11:12<dpkg>djc: I give up, what is it?
11:12<djc>dpkg: dondelelcaro
11:12<dpkg>i heard dondelelcaro is don=don del=delphi elcaro=oracle,
11:12<djc>well that doesnt help
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11:13<djc>dpkg: contact dondelelcaro
11:13<dpkg>djc: parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about
11:13<zumbi>djc: i gave you his email
11:13<djc>dpkg: email dondelelcaro
11:13<dpkg>bugger all, i dunno, djc
11:13<djc>zumbi, eh? where
11:13<djc>well thats only a maybe
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11:19<djc>that wasnt it, but I did find an email at the debian site for him
11:19<djc>email sent
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11:20<Bernic>Hello, i've got a new server running under debian etch, i added the dotdeb repository and ran a apt-get upgrade. Now i've got a message saying "The kernel version running is the same as the one being installed." i'm asked to reboot as soon as possible
11:20<zumbi>yes - that is correct
11:20<Bernic>however because it is a server i'm a bit reluctant to reboot, so i wanted to know if the message is normal
11:20<Bernic>and if the reboot hasn't any chance to break things up
11:21<zumbi>Bernic: you probably have new modules, so you have to reboot
11:21<zumbi>Bernic: usually it does not break things, but shit happens
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11:21<Bernic>ok zumbi, i got this message :
11:21<djc>except for the ones supporting the HD, you could probably unload them and reload them without rebooting. maybe nic too if you are remote
11:21<Bernic>Hmm. The package shipped with a symbolic link /lib/modules/2.6.18-6-686/source However, I can not read the target: No such file or directory Therefore, I am deleting /lib/modules/2.6.18-6-686/source
11:22<zumbi>Bernic: we'll help you to get it back if something wrong happens
11:22<zumbi>Bernic: that is because you do not have kernel sources installed
11:22<zumbi>Bernic: which is fine
11:23<Bernic>zumbi: knowing the *very* bad quality of my hoster support i want to be sure that it will be rebooting correctly
11:23<Bernic>what can i quickly check about the preivous error ?
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11:23<zumbi>do you have modules under /lib/modules/`uname -r`/ ?
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11:24<zumbi>Bernic: what architecture is it?
11:24<zumbi>i'll guess it'll be fine
11:24<Bernic>d2:~# uname -r
11:25<Bernic>ok, thanks
11:25<Bernic>i'm rebooting now, i'll cross my fingers
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11:30*toasty is away [autogone:10/l:on]
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11:31<stew>toasty: please turn that off in here
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11:33<Breadcultist>is this out of date? because the file it mentions doesn't exist on lenny
11:34<Breadcultist>I know I can just make a new file, but it tells me to add stuff to presumably already existing lines...
11:34<valdyn>Breadcultist: why are you messing with this at all?
11:34<Breadcultist>I have a bunch of TTF files I want to use
11:35<valdyn>Breadcultist: copy them to ~/.fonts/
11:35<Breadcultist>oh, okay!
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11:35<Breadcultist>thanks... I'll just get rid of the ones I added already...
11:36<Breadcultist>I asked the bot before bothering the humans btw :x
11:36<dpkg>rumour has it, fonts is check for general info, ask me about <font guide>, or and or, or, or Ask me about <install font>.
11:36<valdyn>!install font
11:36<dpkg>To install fonts for just one user, copy then into ~/.fonts/ and then run fc-cache -fv (or ask me about <kfontinst>). To install them system-wide, copy them into /usr/share/fonts/truetype/myfonts or into /usr/local/share/fonts/truetype/myfonts (but you will have to add /usr/local/share/fonts/ to your xorg.conf) and run fc-cache -fv as root.
11:36<valdyn>Breadcultist: mm, that one is better ^^
11:36<valdyn>Breadcultist: but i never needed to run fc-cache
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11:38<valdyn>Bernic: we can hardly support
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11:38<tetrimino_>hey adb
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11:44<BlueG>what are the metapackages for installing kde, lxde, and perhaps a gnustep-based desktop?
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11:45<Tekno>lxde is lxde
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11:45<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, kde is a desktop environment based on the Qt toolkit. See for release news and other details. Not a window manager. To get KDE, ask me about <install kde>. Ask your KDE questions in #debian-kde (, see also <kde_trouble>. KDE-related IRC channels:
11:46<dpkg>rumour has it, gnustep is a cross-platform development environment based on OpenStep., going to be really awesome, if it ever gets finished,,, (tarzeau the fanboy)
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11:49<nomeata>Hi. Is there a console program that gives me easily information about a movie (especially lengths) – compareable to identify for files?
11:50<BlueG>OdyX: thanks, dpkg seems to have all the answers. I should have thought of that. :-)
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11:51<pingouin_>nomeata: -identify with mplayer maybe ?
11:51<pingouin_>nomeata: or -msglevel identify=6
11:52<adb>tetrimino: try , as root , alsaconf , or install alsa-utils and alsamixergui, and retry alsaconf
11:52<nomeata>pingouin_: Thx. mplayers -identify output is unfortunately not easily human readable, plus it plays the file...
11:52<Bernic>zumbi: the server rebooted correctly, thanks for you advice
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11:55<tcsetattr>mplayer -noconsolecontrols -identify -frames 0 -vo null -ao null
11:55<tcsetattr>but yeah, it's supposed to be machine-readable.
11:55<tcsetattr>| grep '^ID_'
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12:02<toasty>heil himmler
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12:41<fxiny>a zsh killer ? bash 4.0
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12:41<esop>anybody ever bugger a USB flash drive trying to install debian on it to where it would not detect in any computer afterwards... and recover the drive?
12:42<sampei>you help me to configure the wireless?
12:42<fxiny>avu: i read it 12 hours ago , early this morning at 6
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12:50<dacul>hello everyone !
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12:54<fxiny>avu: me joining freenode ? no way
12:54<avu>again with the window-fail :)
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12:54<fxiny>avu: f* sticky finger :P
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13:05<fxiny>no damn xmms2 ape plugin , grrrr
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13:07<dacul>hi there ! can somebody help me configure my video card under debian 5.00?
13:07<Txt-file>!tell dacul about ask
13:07<fxiny>what's wrong with it ?
13:08<fxiny>dacul: do not start asking for a screwdriver :P
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13:08<fxiny>i bet is just the screen , not detected
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13:10<dacul>i have a sony vaio laptop vgn-fw230j and my video card does not work properly
13:10<dpkg>All there is worth knowing about linux and laptops can be found at and Also ask me about <acpi> and <suspend>, or see the debian-laptop mailing list at For Thinkpads, ask me about <thinkpad>. See also <netbook>, <laptop mode> <suspend troubleshooting>.
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13:13<Breadcultist>flash has decided to magically start working :D
13:14<fxiny>magic ? you call magic a curse ?
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13:14<Breadcultist>well... I also have noscript installed for a reason
13:14<fxiny>me too
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13:15<fxiny>Breadcultist: dmm ?
13:15<Breadcultist>I don't know that that means
13:15<dpkg>from memory, dmm is Debian Multimedia, a repository of unofficial Debian packages, not in Debian for patent-related reasons, maintained by Christian Marillat. For information on how to use this repository, see or ask me about <dmm etch> <dmm lenny> <dmm squeeze>
13:16<Breadcultist>I didn't get that, I installed flash from the download on adobe's site (again)
13:16<fxiny>that's wher i got my flash from
13:16<Breadcultist>first time it just made iceweasel crash, 2nd time it did nothing at all (for a while)
13:16<fxiny>Breadcultist: adobe ? nahh i did that on etch , dmm takes care of fixes
13:17<Breadcultist>I'll try dmm if it breaks again
13:17<fxiny>Breadcultist: lenny ?
13:17-!-d7rt [] has joined #debian
13:17<fxiny>it works
13:17<Breadcultist>bbl, I have a fascinating (!) character-related problem~
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13:19<Sey>i once had Firestarter, i had to uninstall it as it just stopped working. i apt-get removed it. Now i want it again but i get this error when apt-getting :
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13:19<dr|z3d>Sey: Try gufw, perhaps.
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13:20<ant_>adobe flash should work too... have it running on the desktop and on the laptop, but after a fresh install of the laptop it doesn't work anymore....
13:21<fxiny>flash is an annoyance , atrope releases too many fixes , i use dmm flashplayer-mozilla , no more copying around that ugly thing
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13:22<fxiny>i'm ready for a long sweet lenny trip :)
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13:23<fxiny>but if you have resources try the free inmplementations
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13:27<Qaski>wenas wenas
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13:28<Qaski>alguno me puede ayudar con una duda?
13:28<Sey>heres the thing, i want to route internets out to my laptop on xp. used to do this via firestarter. any way i can just do it with comman line in terminal?
13:28<beer>no offence but the free inmplementations of flash (gnash) is even worse than flash from adobe
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13:29<fresita>si nosotras estamos dispuestas ayudarte
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13:30<dr|z3d>Sey: You'll want to edit your route, or proxy to your XP box, assuming you have a proxy configured there.
13:30-!-t_ [] has joined #debian
13:30<dr|z3d>Sey: Or just nominate the XP ip as your gateway, assuming it's configured to behave as one.
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13:31<Sey>dr|z3d, i have no proxy there. i could make the xp act as my gateway i presume but i get limited connectivity then
13:31<loup>i have a generell question about email security
13:31<slooopyy>hi mates. ive got a question about debian. after about 10 years of windows experience i changed my operating system to debian... my current problem: i am way to stupid to install the "alsa" driver package... any help would be great
13:31<loup>is it more secure to use the web service through firefox or with pop and smtp on thunderbird?
13:31<fresita>escribenos en espa?ol o en frances
13:32<chealer>!tell Qaski about es
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13:33<slooopyy>hi mates. ive got a question about debian. after about 10 years of windows experience i changed my operating system to debian... my current problem: i am way to stupid to install the "alsa" driver package...hi mates. ive got a question about debian. after about 10 years of windows experience i changed my operating system to debian... my current problem: i am way to stupid to install the "alsa" driver package...
13:34<amphi>slooopyy: please don't repeat
13:34<dr|z3d>slooopyy: apt-cache search alsa
13:34<amphi>!tell slooopyy -about alsa checklist
13:34<beer>slooopyy: find your way to your console, shift to root by entering su and then root password, then entering this command: apt-get install alsa-base alsa-tools alsa-utils gnome-alsamixer
13:34<fxiny>wiki wiki wiki
13:35<chealer>loup: depends on what web service you're talking about, and your thunderbird settings.
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13:35<slooopyy>thx alot
13:35<beer>instead if gnome-alsamixer you can use kmix if you are using kde
13:35<goodger>hello, I know this is offtopic but would anyone experienced with IRC be willing to help me to crush a troll?
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13:36<fxiny>goodger: hahhah
13:36<fxiny>can't believe it
13:36<goodger>it keeps changing its damned hostname ¬.¬
13:36<fxiny>goodger: what the troll's doing to you ? :)))
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13:37<loup>chealer: gererally...if it is more secure to login with firefox or using thunderbird....standard settings in thunderbird and firefox
13:37-!-wilsondm [] has joined #debian
13:37<goodger>fxiny: it's just being generally annoying and persistent
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13:38<fxiny>goodger: pm ? /ig * msg
13:39-!-mode/#debian [+l 429] by debhelper
13:39<goodger>fxiny: wha?
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13:39<fxiny>goodger: is the troll messaging you ?
13:39-!-d0rt [] has joined #debian
13:39<goodger>fxiny: no, it's spamming a channel
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13:40<fxiny>goodger: export some good ops from here then ;)
13:40<yuijin>how to fix fatal:error Include /etc/proftpd/modules.conf on proftpd
13:40<goodger>that's what I was trying to do
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13:52<beer>can someone tell my if sun-java6-plugin exist on amd64 debian testing/unstable?
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13:54<upsy>beer: yes
13:54<loup>how can i see which services or daemons are loaded during the boot?
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13:54<loup>i want to disable some because i know there on every distro things i do not need :)
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13:55<dpalacio>is linux-kbuild-2.6.28 anywhere in the archive?
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13:55<loup>dpalacio: you must buod it from the sources
13:55<amphi>beer: seems to
13:55<stew>dpalacio: no, its in the NEW queue
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13:56<loup>upsy: all this is loaded?
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13:56<stew>dpalacio: err, no its not in the new queue anymore
13:56<stuckey>Does anyone know how I can set up a stable/experimental dual-boot system?
13:57<dpalacio>right, it disappeared
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13:57<loup>experimental is note an own "distribution"
13:57<loup>you can install some packages from it, but not using an experimental system
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13:58<loup>stuckey: you can use stable and unstable
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14:01<upsy>loup: probably not
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14:01<loup>can i remove portmap from debian?
14:02<craigevil>if you do not use nfs go right ahead
14:02<fxiny>loup: check out aptitude -s purge <package>
14:03<dpalacio>loup: do you know of linux-kbuild-2.6.28 sources?
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14:03<dpalacio>I do not find anything on the debian-kernel ML
14:03<loup>dpalacio: yes you must compile it yourself. but it is very very easy, just use google :)
14:03<stuckey>loup: so I just put apt to unstable and then I can use the experimental repository?
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14:04*dpalacio uses google
14:04-!-ritschi_ [] has joined #debian
14:04*stuckey uses scroogle
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14:04<loup>stuckey: you will have an unstable system, yes, and you can install some packages you want with an option in apt-get install
14:04<craigevil>stuckey: exp isnt a full release, its more a holding area for packages that are considered too unstable even for unstable
14:04<loup>stuckey: but you can't upgrade your whole system to unstable because it is not a whole system like sid or testing :)
14:05<loup>in experimental are only some very very new packages
14:05<loup>go with scroogle ;)
14:05<loup>dpalacio: you want to know how to xompile it?
14:05<stuckey>loup: sid is unstable, right?
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14:06<craigevil>stuckey: sid=unstable yes
14:06<stuckey>craigevil: Thanks
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14:06<beer>and kde4 is very new. It is only been more than a year since it has been released and it is not stable enough for sid
14:06<stuckey>Okay I understand how that works now, and I'll look in the apt manual pages to figure out how to bring it packages from experimental. But how do I set up a dual-boot sytem?
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14:07<dpalacio>loup: make-kpkg ? I did that one some time ago and it almost borked(?) my video card
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14:07<stuckey>dpalacio: *broke
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14:07<upsy>loup: look at sysv-rc-conf or bum packages if you haven't already
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14:07<hjb>Hi. I've got a xrandr multihead setup with two screens
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14:07<stuckey>Congratulations hjb.
14:07<beer>stuckey: install debian with limit amount hd, and stall it again on the other part of the hd
14:08<hjb>Is there any tool which can set the backgreounds of the two screens individually?
14:08<loup>stuckey: a debian installation should see if another linux is already installed, so just install 2 times stable, and upgrade one to sid
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14:08<hjb>stuckey thanks :-D
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14:08<stuckey>Is there a way to set up a 'daul-boot' if you've already got one system installed?
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14:08<stuckey>loup: that won't screw anything up on the already installed system?
14:08<beer>does the first installed system take all the amount of HD?
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14:08<stuckey>beer: Yes
14:09-!-mode/#debian [+l 436] by debhelper
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14:09<hjb>stuckey is there any free space available on that partition?
14:09<stuckey>hjb: There's free space but the entire drive was partitioned for use on the system that's already installed...
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14:09<beer>a easy way: Take the ubuntu cd and use that to shrink the partition. and installe the 2. OS there
14:09<fxiny>stuckey: the easiest fastest way is cloning your running system with a live cd
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14:10<hjb>stuckey ok, that can be fixed by shrinking
14:10<hjb>stuckey you should make a backup, though
14:10-!-d0rt [] has joined #debian
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14:10<hjb>stuckey depending on how valuable the first system is for you ;)
14:10<beer>ofc he should tak packup
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14:11<loup>stuckey: what is on your HD for the moment?
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14:12<loup>dpalacio: look at the 2. post
14:12<hjb>btw. is there any official xorg channel somewhere on irc?
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14:12<hjb>i feel that that would be more on-topic for my question
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14:12<stuckey>loup: standard all in one partition for stable
14:13<loup>can i remove sudo from debian when i do not use it?
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14:13<loup>stuckey: your HD is one big partition?
14:13<hjb>boris_ thanks, already found it ;) sorry for pollution of this chan
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14:13<hjb>loup sure, why not?
14:14<loup>i don't know, maybe something needs it
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14:14<hjb>loup then it would depends on it
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14:14<hjb>loup ;)
14:14<loup>i only use "su" or kdesu, so i can just remove sudo or?
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14:15<craigevil>loup: i dont even have sudo installed
14:15<loup>it was installed by a lenny default installation
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14:18<dpalacio>loup: thanks
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14:20<fewbar>How can I kill all processes being run by '<user>'
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14:20<petemc>slay user
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14:21<Jflesch>fewbar: man killall suggests killall -u
14:21<dpkg>slay is probably a handy utility that sends a given signal (kill by default) to all processes of the given user(s)
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14:23<fewbar>-bash: slay: command not found
14:23<fewbar>need to install the package, or is it default petemc?
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14:23<fewbar>Jflesch: killall -u <user>?
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14:26<Jflesch>fewbar: I think so, but the fact that slays exists suggest that it won work actually
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14:30<stuckey>fxiny: how do I close my system with a live cd?
14:30<dacul>have anybody debian lenny installed on a sony vaio vgn-fw laptop? i give my yahoo id to talk ( stefan_landas73)
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14:33<fxiny>stuckey: how large is your hardrive ?
14:33<stuckey>fxiny: 650gb but it formatted to like 580
14:34<fxiny>stuckey: most of it taken by home ?
14:34<stuckey>fxiny: hmm... Yeah I think... how do I check that?
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14:35<hjb>stuckey by typing 'df -h'?
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14:35<fxiny>stuckey: wait . 650-580=170 , so you have 170 avaible ?
14:35<stuckey>hjb: doesn't show you a distribution
14:36<stuckey>fxiny: No it formatted to approx. 580GB---the entire drive was formatted for this install.
14:36<hjb>stuckey right, i forgot that you don't have a seperate /home
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14:36<fxiny>stuckey: you have 170 more . how many partitions do you have now ? including swap ?
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14:37<stuckey>fxiny: It's just /boot /swap and /
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14:37<fxiny>boot ? where's home ?
14:38<fxiny>stuckey: you cannot have more then 4 primary partitions
14:38<stuckey>fxiny: there isn't a seperate home... everything is under one partition. You know, that option you select in the installer that says "recommended for new users", that's the one I used.
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14:43<metalqga>stuckey: having /home on a separate partition is generally better
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14:43<stuckey>metalqga: Ah, hello, thanks.
14:44<stuckey>metalqga: You're the one who gave me the xorg options to set up switching between two keyboards, right?
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14:44<metalqga>the scrolllock led
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14:45<stuckey>metalqga: You should know that last part can be simplified as "grp:lwin_toggle,grp_led:scroll"
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14:46<stuckey>metalqga: You used alt shift I believe, but I'm using the (quite useless) win key.
14:46<fxiny>stuckey: ugly partition scheme
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14:46<stuckey>fxiny: How should I make it?
14:46<fxiny>stuckey: a separate home
14:46<stuckey>fxiny: okay so how do I fix it?
14:47<fxiny>stuckey: three primary partitions + an extended
14:47<stuckey>fxiny: wait... what does that mean?
14:47<fxiny>stuckey: swap shared with all the system you want
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14:47<ranix>stuckey: fxiny speaks in trolleese
14:47<hjb>fxiny uh, that can lead to data loss when one uses hibernation :-/
14:48<stuckey>ranix: trolleese?
14:48<ranix>stuckey: you have to decipher it. But the catch is that he's actually being helpful 99% of the time
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14:48<ranix>he just reads like he's speaking broken english
14:48<fxiny>ranix: to quoque brutii ranix ? :P
14:48<ranix>fxiny: et tu!
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14:49<fxiny>hjb: data loss ? who cares about data ? i care about my system only
14:49<ranix>fxiny: I am the opposite, I care only about data and not system
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14:49<fxiny>data is expendaeble
14:49<stuckey>fxiny: Okay, so I go into the installer, and what do I do to get it set up like you say is proper?
14:49<fxiny>ranix: i always back up my data
14:49<ranix>stuckey: are you familiar with the graphical partition manager
14:49<stuckey>ranix: Yes
14:49<ranix>stuckey: in the Debian setup
14:50<fxiny>i care about my system
14:50<stuckey>ranix: Yes
14:50<fxiny>so if i shrink home i'm ok
14:50<ranix>stuckey: make separate partitions for /var/, /, and /home
14:50<stuckey>ranix: Why /var?
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14:50<craigevil>i have only ever used / and /swap in 5 yrs of running sid
14:50<ranix>stuckey: var because programs can throw gigs of logs on occasion, /home because you don't want to worry about bringing the system down if you fill disk space, and / because, well, /
14:50<Breadcultist>I keep all my stuff in one partition, except for /boot and swap, is this dangerous D:
14:50<hjb>stuckey /var can fill up and stop your system behaving properly ;)
14:51<fxiny>and i use lvm
14:51<steffan>how can I force locate to update?
14:51<fxiny>supoer large home partitions are useless
14:51<ranix>stuckey: keep in mind this is just consensus rule from ages of experience
14:51<stuckey>ranix: Is that one of the options in the installer (to select seperate /home and /var) or will I have to do it manually?
14:51<hjb>steffan updatedb
14:51<ranix>stuckey: there's a section in which you can set up your partitions
14:51<ranix>stuckey: when I first built a system properly, I ran through it maybe 4 times
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14:52<ranix>stuckey: doesn't take too long and you get it set up quite well with full understanding
14:52<steffan>hjb: thanks
14:52<metalqga>my scheme is /15G /home20G /other data 200G on a 250hdd
14:52<fxiny>stuckey: i have many systems like ranix , hjb and anyone else , your ugly partitioning scheme is not flexible
14:52<ranix>also, Lenny now has support for md at install
14:52<metalqga>and / currently has 8G free so you may go for 10G
14:52<stuckey>Okay so I make a / and a /home and a /var
14:53<hjb>fxiny what? I've got exactly *no* ugly partitioning sheme! ;)
14:53<stuckey>How large do I make all of those? Oh yeah and a /swap also
14:53<fxiny>stuckey: so . leave things as they are and learn about partitioning , resizing . lvm , backup and cloning
14:53<hjb>fxiny /usr /home /var /tmp etc.. all on different partitions :-D
14:53<ranix>I personally make 10% /var, 30% /root, and 60% /home, but that depends on yout situation
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14:53<ranix>oh also don't put /etc/ on its own partition
14:53<fxiny>hjb: i said the you have many systems :)
14:53<ranix>he meant et cetera
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14:53<saebekassebil>Hey! I'm a new Debian user, but i would really like to contribute to the software development, how can i help? I saw, but is that really all?
14:54<ranix>root doesn't need more thawn 50 gigs
14:54<metalqga>hjb: i don't like your scheme
14:54<ranix>home wants as much as possible
14:54<ranix>var wants a lot if you're webserving
14:54<hjb>metalqga why not?
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14:54<ranix>otherwise not much, 20gigs tops
14:54<fxiny>hjb: i had up to 32 partitions in the past , now i sit comfortable in a / home and swap partitions schem always :)
14:54<boris_>root doesnt need more than 15G
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14:54<craigevil>stuckey: just leave things like they are and use something like the gparted livecd to shrink your partition then install debian on the free space
14:55<fxiny>multipartioning is a game you can try and forget after
14:55<fxiny>lvm rox
14:55<ranix>I have yet to use lvm
14:55<hjb>fxiny oh, ok . I've got you wrong
14:55<ranix>because of md
14:55<metalqga>hjb: i'd like to have / /home /data patitions (home is raid1 with another hdd)
14:55<stuckey>craigevil: I think it'd be quicker for me just to re-installer... there's nothing on this system really.
14:55<stew>saebekassebil: hi!, there are lots of ways you can help. has some. confirming bugs, fixing bugs, filing bugs is always needed. see as a good place to find bugs that need attention
14:56<stuckey>Okay so how does this work then, when I have two systems installed... how do I boot into one or the other?
14:56<hjb>metalqga what's /data ? does that conform to the lsb ? :-P
14:56<craigevil>stuckey: add the kernel form the second install to grub, although that should happen when you install the second OS
14:56<hjb>stuckey you'll use a boot manager like grub
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14:56<fxiny>stuckey: i can clone or back up my syetem in 3 minutes
14:56<saebekassebil>stew: Thanks! I program especially in PHP & MySQL, but i like programming in C++
14:56<dr|z3d>stuckey: Grub should allow you to choose at boot time, assuming grub knows about both installs.
14:56<ranix>stuckey: I don't really use multiple boots
14:57<fxiny>stuckey: anyone can do that
14:57<ranix>stuckey: any good nerd has spare computers he can just grab and install on in >1hr
14:57<stuckey>Yeah it asks that question in the installer... "if you want to install this to the master grub record". So I suppose I should select no on the second installer.
14:57<ranix><rather wtf
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14:57<shaya>anyone know how to reset an x keyboard map?
14:57<fxiny>stuckey: debian provides you with all the tools you need . you look for info and do it :)
14:57<ranix>shaya: xmodmap?
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14:58<stew>saebekassebil: especially if you can code, look for bugs that could use a patch. hmm there is a tool to help find bugs in packages you have installed... what was it
14:58<ranix>stuckey: I filled /home/ranix once with a DVD and mysl died. That's how I learned to separate home
14:58<fxiny>stuckey: but hell : you must know what an extended partition is . that is very important
14:58<ranix>stuckey: then I filled /var/ with 80 gigabytes of MUD logs
14:58<stuckey>ranix: I don't like the idea of using two boots either, but I want to be able to use my nvidia card which only has a driver in experimental.
14:58<ranix>and that's how I learned to separate /var
14:58<stuckey>fxiny: What's an extended partition?
14:59<stew>saebekassebil: you could also, perhaps look for orphaned/RFA packages in php/mysql/c++, see
14:59<hjb>stuckey are you on x86?
14:59<stuckey>hjb: amd64
14:59<ranix>sorry about that
14:59<hjb>stuckey there you can have only 4 primary partitions, or 3 primary and 1 extended, which then can contain many (? doesn't know exact number) logical partitions
15:00<saebekassebil>stew: Sure thanks!
15:00<BlueG>Suppose someone installs the kde metapackage, then decides they do not want it after all. Will uninstalling kde remove the packages it pulled in? Or is there another way of doing this?
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15:00<saebekassebil>stew: Does Debian has any sound/music projects going on? Or where can i find out?
15:00<fxiny>stuckey: an extended partition is a primary partiution which can hold many logicals partititions within , and save us from the f* 4 primary maximum partition limit
15:01<saebekassebil>Is it possible to delete my Alioth account?
15:01<fxiny>is a bitch , because of the way it keeps the partitons table
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15:01<stew>saebekassebil: ask #alioth
15:01<shaya>ranix: except my problem is my keymap is totally messed up with vnc and xmodmap is not showing any issues
15:02<saebekassebil>stew: thanks again :)
15:02<stew>saebekassebil: you're welcome
15:02<shaya>if I type letters in alphabetical order, instead of getting alphabetical order, I get asdf....
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15:02<fxiny>stew: i followed your advice : what a great upgrade aptitude did for me :)
15:02<stuckey>Okay thanks for the help... I'm going to set this up.
15:03<ranix>have fun
15:03<fxiny>stew: i have an old box . aptitude took 2 full minutes to sort dependencies before starting , i am impressed
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15:04<hjb>hmm, i wonder know if stuckey has enough free space available to do it... whatever
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15:04<Tarcas>After rolling a new kernel, my interfaces don't come up. When issuing "ifup eth1" (or any interface) it replies with an error that it is unable to lock the state file /etc/network/run/ifstate. Am I looking at a network problem, a filesystem problem, or something else? / is a RAID 5 md array.
15:05<valdyn>Tarcas: what does "touch /etc/network/run/test" give ?
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15:06<Tarcas>I didn't try that, but I did delete the ifstate file (as root) and it came back automatically if that helps.
15:06<fxiny>hjb: /dev/hdb2 2.5G 2.2G 216M 91% /
15:06<Tarcas>size is 0 under that kernel, currently 46 under the working kernel.
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15:06<fxiny>lenny fits in a 2.5G partition :))
15:06-!-t [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:07<fxiny>a full lenny system , i miss nothing i have an unused kde as well
15:07<Tarcas>valdyn: unfortunately the system in question acts as my router, so I'll have to reboot in order to try anything and reboot again to deliver the answer. Was deleting the ifstate file sufficient, or would you like me to try touching a test file in that directory?
15:08<fxiny>my largest / are 4.5G , lvm in attendance :P
15:08<valdyn>Tarcas: no idea,i cant explain why the file would come back immediately
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15:08<Tarcas>not immediate. I suspect it was when I tried bringing an if up.
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15:13<BlueG>What is the difference between "Mark for Removal" and "Mark for Complete Removal" in Synaptic? Does the latter remove config files while the former leaves them in place in case you reinstall it later?
15:14<saebekassebil>Would like to know the same as BlueG
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15:16<pablo>BlueG: Mark for Complete Removal is somethink like apt-get purge, Mark for Removal is somethink like apt-get remove
15:16<pablo>So yes. It will remove more config files.
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15:16<dkr>that's what I was about to say, also. if there is no "purge" option, then those two options must equate to "remove" and "purge"
15:17-!-loup [~none@] has joined #debian
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15:18<loup>i use lenny with kde and changed in the controlcenter the default language to another one
15:18<loup>it works fine, but all gtk applications are still in the old language
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15:18<BlueG>ahhh, I see from man apt-get that remove leaves config files, while purge removes them
15:18<loup>do you know how i can also change the language of the gtk applications like iceweasel or gimp or pidgin?
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15:19<BlueG>So, does removing a metapackage remove all of the dependancies it pulled in?
15:19-!-Worf_ [] has joined #debian
15:20<BlueG>It doesn't appear to, so how can I do this?
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15:21<peja>Hello I have problem with Lenny and Xen I have been disabled ( mv /lib/tls to /lib/tls.disabled) and I still have same error message from dmesg (many times booted).
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15:23<BlueG>Does the Debian package management system make a distinction between packages which are explicitly installed and those which are only dependacies of something else, so that there is any easy way to remove unused dependancies when a package is removed?
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15:24<vlsoft>I have a small problem, I'm wondering anyone else experiencing it too? It seems to be related to sudo. On Stable systems, often after I do a successful "sudo su -" it terminates the shell after I press a key - it writes logout to the console when I press say the "e" key (for the env command). On unstable, it's more interesting, if I press the ~ key, no character appears, I have to press it twice... Other letters work after sudo, and after t
15:24<vlsoft>he first character, ~ works as expected.
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15:29<InkBottle>how do you install a source package like this one:
15:30-!-lukegeorge [] has joined #debian
15:30<dr|z3d>Is it packaged as a .deb, InkBottle?
15:31<pablo>InkBottle: you want change sources that applicaton or just you want to use it?
15:31<dr|z3d>If so, dkpg -i <name.deb>
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15:32<stew>InkBottle: what exactly do you mean by "install"?
15:32<InkBottle>pablo: want to use it
15:32<InkBottle>might be $ apt-get -b source packagename
15:32<InkBottle>but I never did it
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15:33<pablo>You don't need to download source
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15:33<stew>InkBottle: that would work if you have deb-src lines in /etc/apt/sources.list ; you may need to run "aptitude install build-essential ; apt-get build-dep packagename" first
15:34<InkBottle>stew: I have deb-src in source list
15:34<pablo>Because if you download source and compile it with debian method you just get the same aplication as you can download and install by aptitude
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15:35<stew>InkBottle: what version of debian are you running?
15:35<pablo>aptitude install :)
15:35<InkBottle>pablo: but then where is the .deb of that: ?
15:36<stew>InkBottle: in the,, binary packages
15:36<InkBottle>squeeze sid experimental
15:36<stew>InkBottle: "apt-cache showsrc etoile" would list the binary packages in the Binary line
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15:37<pablo>there are not deb packages with sources
15:37<stew>pablo: what?
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15:38<InkBottle>stew: thanks
15:38<pablo>etoile_0+20080616+dfsg.orig.tar.gz - just that tar.gz :)
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15:39<bozz>is someone know the limit of virtual ip you can add to a single nic?
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15:39<themill>InkBottle: that page only lists source packages which aren't things you install. You install the binary packages that are made from the source, and you would install them using "aptitude install <packagename>".
15:39<BlueG>a forum comment suggests that you can only uninstall unused dependancies if the package was installed by aptitude and not apt-get or synaptic. Is this true? If so, is there a gui interface that has this functionality, or should I just be using aptitude?
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15:40<stew>BlueG: that was try with older versions of apt-get, apt-get has "autoremove" as of version 0.7
15:40<craigevil>BlueG: apt-get has autoremove
15:40<themill>BlueG: we recommend aptitude. synaptic in lenny might be able to do that too, but I've not touched synaptic for years.
15:40<stew>BlueG: there are other tools to help such as deborphan and debfoster for removing unneded dependencies
15:40<craigevil>yes synaptic has autoremove as well, it will show the same packages as apt-get autoremove would
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15:42<BlueG>How do you use autoremove in synaptic?
15:42<InkBottle>themill: yes it's what stew said
15:42<InkBottle>any one know how to use gnu step?
15:42<stew>i think tarzeau is the only one that uses gnustep
15:43<InkBottle>about this etoile stuf, how do I do to make it work?
15:43<craigevil>BlueG: when you remove a package if any packages can be autoremoved they show up in the status tab
15:43<InkBottle>stew: what do u use?
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15:43<stew>InkBottle: i don't use a desktop environment, just a window manager
15:44<InkBottle>which one?
15:44<stew>InkBottle: i wrote my own
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15:44<InkBottle>based on what?
15:44<BlueG>craigevil: Status tab? Where do you get that?
15:44<InkBottle>stew: what toolkit..?
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15:45<stew>InkBottle: the one I liked, ion3 is no longer free, so i reimplemented the parts I needed in python using python-plwm
15:45<stew>it works really well for me, and sorta well for my wife, and aparantly there is at least 2 other people using it
15:45<InkBottle>stew: did you try dwm?
15:45<stew>InkBottle: no but I used wmii-3 for years
15:45<stew>or, maybe, a year
15:46<craigevil>BlueG: on the bottom left where it says Section, Status, Origin
15:46<InkBottle>stew: or maybe a week :) (sorry)
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15:46<Breadcultist>I'm trying to intall the new gnome-do, using a different repo
15:47<BlueG>craigevil: do you have to actually uninstall the package first, then the option to remove the unused deps appears under the Status tab?
15:47<craigevil>BlueG: yes
15:47<simonrvn>stew: you wrote your own? neat
15:47<craigevil>hm no once a package ismarked removed the autoremovable packages wil show up
15:47<Breadcultist>going by this - how do I deal with "W: GPG error: intrepid Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 28A8205077558DD0"?
15:48<BlueG>craigevil: Does that work for metapackages, like kde?
15:48<stew>judd: info tritium --release experimental
15:48<judd>stew: tritium (x11): is extra; Version: 0.3.8-1; Size: 24.5k; Installed: 232k -- a tabbed/tiling window manager
15:48<Breadcultist>I think I did something with gpg before...
15:48<craigevil>BlueG: yes
15:49<InkBottle>stew: I tried ion, dwm, wmii, and even xmonad. I like them much. But sometimes it's hard to go out of kde.
15:49<Breadcultist>I liked awesome wm... but a really ancient one is in the debian repo O;
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15:49<stew>InkBottle: most people that have used those are heading towards 'awesome' which might be based on dwm or parts of dwm or something
15:50<BlueG>hmm, the list after removing kdebase seems rather short... for instance, I would have expected to see konqueror on the list.
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15:51<InkBottle>stew: tahnks for the tips, looks interesting
15:52<hjb>Breadcultist there's a recent one in experimental ;)
15:53<InkBottle>stew: xmonad is very interesting, but some days you are not in the mood to understand haskell code to configure your wm. And you would like more traightforward things
15:53<stew>InkBottle: well mine (tritium) requires you to write python, and I think awesome requires you to write lua
15:53<InkBottle>stew: I prefer haskel
15:54<stew>InkBottle: awesome was started at the same time I got mine, but he got users faster and started getting patches, I have yet to recieve a patch, so awesome is much farther along
15:54<stew>i've got little incentive to make mine better, becuase it works great for me :)
15:54<Breadcultist>how do I get stuff from experimental?
15:55<dpkg>experimental is the bleeding edge of Debian Development. Packages here have been deemed unfit/DANGEROUS/untrustworthy/etc for release by the maintainer responsible for them. DO NOT INSTALL PACKAGES FROM EXPERIMENTAL WITHOUT KNOWING EXACTLY WHY AND WHAT YOU ARE DOING. #debian does not support experimental. For an actual description, see section of the Developer's Reference, or
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15:56<InkBottle>stew: what toolkit you said you use (toolkit might not be the right word)?
15:56<hjb>Breadcultist you have to edit your /etc/apt/preferences. Read about "pinning" in man apt_preferences
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15:57<Breadcultist>okay thanks
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15:59<stew>InkBottle: python-plwm
16:00<InkBottle>stew: plwm
16:00<InkBottle>stew: awsome is not available under debian, neither xcb (the "toolkit " it uses)
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16:01<BlueG>Is there an easy way to mark everything under "Installed (auto removable)" for removal?
16:01<Breadcultist>do I need to change anything in /etc/apt/sources.list to get stuff from experimental?
16:02<InkBottle>stew: xmonad is available under debian, but it's non-sense, because it (this package) doesn't make sense if you don't compile it yourself)
16:02<InkBottle>patrikf: I check
16:03<InkBottle>patrikf: :)
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16:04<stuckey>ranix: okay I set it up with seperate /var and /home and /root
16:04<stuckey>So now I just set the apt sources to "unstable" and then apt-get upgrade?
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16:05<the-next>hola soy de colombian
16:05<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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16:05<chealer>BlueG: yes, select everything, right-click and mark them for removal
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16:06<stuckey>Simple question, I just installed a stable system and I want to be able to use stuff from experimental. Should I just change the apt source list to say "unstable" and then do apt-get upgrade?
16:06<Breadcultist>oh I wish
16:07<dr|z3d>stuckey: Sure.
16:07<dr|z3d>stuckey: You'll want to do apt-get update first, mind.
16:07<Breadcultist>wat, that works?
16:07<stuckey>dr|z3d: Okay... and then to use experimental I'll just add the experimental repository lines into the sources.list?
16:07<themill>stuckey: make sure you know what you're getting yourself in for though. /msg dpkg experimental ; /msg dpkg sid
16:07<dr|z3d>stuckey: That's about the size of it, yes.
16:08<stuckey>themill: I made a dual boot setup, because I want to use my nvidia card (which needs a drier from experimental)
16:08<chealer>stuckey: no
16:09<stuckey>chealer: where am I going wrong here?
16:09<InkBottle>stew: I installed awesome and tritium. I'll give them a glance
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16:10<simonrvn>stuckey: i hope you're able to get yourself out of package mgt. binds, recover from catastrophic errors, and file bug reports ;).
16:10<chealer>stuckey: experimental isn't unstable. unstable is a full Debian suite, experimental only has some packages. note that you shouldn't use unstable as your default suite unless you know Debian well.
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16:11<stuckey>simonrvn: I don't mind... as long as I can use the 'debian way' to setup my nvidia card.
16:11<stuckey>chealer: so I can keep this one system as "stable" but then use experimental?
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16:12<stuckey>chealer: I'm just wanting to use the nvidia driver from experimental...
16:12<chealer>stuckey: it's easier to mix repositories when they're close, say testing with unstable. stable with experimental is generally complicated, but at this moment it's not too bad. in you case, it's possible.
16:13<chealer>s/you case/your case/
16:13<Breadcultist>I just want two packages from experimental... do I really have to read all about this pinning stuff?
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16:13<stuckey>chealer: So it's better/easier for me to mix stable repositories with experimental as compared to testing?
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16:14<valdyn>Breadcultist: dont need to, you can download debs and dpkg -i
16:14<valdyn>Breadcultist: or do a quick mix like
16:14<valdyn>!simple sid sarge mix
16:14<valdyn>!simple sid/lenny mix
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16:14<valdyn>Breadcultist: factoid cant be found, just add experimental deb line, install what you need, remove experimental deb line
16:14<chealer>stuckey: in this case, mixing stable, testing or unstable with the experimental packages would be equally easy. In general, mixing testing with experimental is easier.
16:14<valdyn>Breadcultist: and pay attention to what you install
16:15<Breadcultist>I'll try
16:15<Breadcultist>what does an experimental deb line look like?
16:15<stuckey>chealer: but it's good that I've made a dual boot set up, right? As there could be problems with doing this...
16:15<valdyn>Breadcultist: just like your lenny deb line
16:15<valdyn>Breadcultist: but experimental instead of lenny, obviously
16:15<dpkg>echo 'APT::Default-Release "testing";' >> /etc/apt/apt.conf, edit sources.list, copy your non-security testing lines and change one set to sid. then apt-get update. use apt-get -t sid install foo; to install foo from sid rather than testing as usual. consider reading the APT HOWTO, as this exposes to unstable packages. WARNING to SYNAPTIC users: Synaptic ignores Default-Release. set Preferences->Distribution, or <IYHTAYS>
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16:16<chealer>stuckey: what kind of dual boot, Debian / Windows?
16:16<stuckey>chealer: hahahaha no... debian/debian
16:17<stuckey>chealer: One being Lenny and the other being Lenny/experimetanl
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16:18<chealer>stuckey: well, I wouldn't make a dual boot just for that, but provided you have enough disk space, having a backup OS is not a bad idea.
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16:19<stuckey>chealer: Okay, my thought was that it would be "breaking" a stable Lenny install to bring stuff in from experimental. But anyway...
16:19<stuckey>chealer: How do I set up these nvidia drivers?
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16:19<Breadcultist>ok it seems I'm lagging... what do I do D:
16:20<chealer>stuckey: did you add an experimental APT source?
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16:21<stuckey>chealer: where do I find the apt source?
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16:21<Breadcultist>I lagged out, what does an experimental deb line look like?
16:21<Breadcultist>I lagged out, what does an experimental deb line look like?
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16:21<chealer>stuckey: most Debian mirrors can be a source.
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16:22<chealer>[16:15:24] <valdyn> Breadcultist: just like your lenny deb line
16:22<chealer>[16:15:34] <valdyn> Breadcultist: but experimental instead of lenny, obviously
16:22<stuckey>chealer: chealer thanks
16:22<Guest236>ma in ita nn c'e
16:22<stuckey>chealer: but I keep the lenny line also? right?
16:23<Breadcultist>hmm.. I have several lines that look like they could be a lenny deb line
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16:23<chealer>stuckey: it might break it. hopefully it doesn't. in this case the drivers are only in experimental because of lenny's freeze. they should enter unstable when NEW is processed.
16:23<k6>Hi, how could I know the type of my RAM? like DDR etc.
16:23<valdyn>k6: open the box, look at the ram
16:23<stuckey>chealer: What's NEW?
16:23<k6>lol ok:)
16:23<chealer>stuckey: yes. it's a bit like a testing/unstable mix, but with no need to set your default release.
16:24<chealer>!tell stuckey about tsm
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16:24<chealer>!tell stuckey about new
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16:24<boris_>k6: dmidecode
16:25<valdyn>dmidecode output is not reliable
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16:26<stuckey>chealer: sid = experimental
16:26<stuckey>chealer: ?
16:26<adb> sid = unstable
16:26<stuckey>And experimental isn't a distribution... just a repo?
16:26<chealer>stuckey: in other words, it will enter unstable as soon as some people reviewed packages.
16:27<stuckey>chealer: at which point it would make sense to have a unstable distribution?
16:27<valdyn>stuckey: experimental is a repository that is not controlled
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16:27<adb>sid isn't a distribution too
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16:27<BlueG>I am confused... I seem to have gotten shockwave flash with iceweasel... I thought flash was non-free?
16:28<stuckey>BlueG: gnash is in lenny... if that's what you installed.
16:28<dr|z3d>Maybe you're running gnash, BlueG?
16:28<valdyn>stuckey: sid is a repository that every package has to go thru before getting to testing
16:28<valdyn>stuckey: obviously sid has to be complete is debian ever wants to release anything usable
16:28-!-HarryMcTwo [] has joined #debian
16:28<chealer>stuckey: yes, experimental is an incomplete suite. only Debian maintainers really need to use unstable as a default release.
16:28<dr|z3d>Check about:plugins in Iceweasel.. should tell you what you're running.
16:28<c36pop>hi i have to send mail locally through svnmail , so it needs exim4 ; is it possible to configure exim4 only to deliver locallu generated email without any ocal mail delivery ?
16:29<valdyn>c36pop: dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config
16:29<Breadcultist>I added deb experimental main contrib non-free and it didn't give me any errors, but It won't install the newest gnome-do version... is this the part where I need to edit apt preferences?
16:29<chealer>BlueG: Adobe Flash Player is non-free. you must have a free Flash player.
16:29<stuckey>chealer: okay so now that I've got the sources in my sources.list... what do I do to install the driver?
16:29<valdyn>Breadcultist: maybe theres no newer gnome-do version in experimental
16:29<c36pop>Breadcultist : did you resolve your wpa problemz ?
16:30<adb>judd: versions gnome-do
16:30<judd>adb: gnome-do -- lenny: sid: squeeze: experimental:
16:30<valdyn>Breadcultist: and i would advice doing something silly as upgrading gnome-do from experimental
16:30<Breadcultist>c36pop: sort of, I got it working with TKIP with a shorter key
16:30<valdyn>Breadcultist: drivers - ok, but gnome-do, dont do it
16:30<chealer>stuckey: try # apt-get -t experimental install nvidia-kernel-source
16:30<c36pop>ho nice
16:30<dr|z3d>gnome-do 0.8 is "current"
16:30<Breadcultist>valdyn: haha
16:30<BlueG>dr|z3d, chealer, stuckey: I have Shockwave Flash
16:30<BlueG>I have only main in my sources.lst and its practically a fresh install
16:31<dr|z3d>BlueG: Is it working ok for you? If so, why worry?
16:31<Breadcultist>there is a newer gnome do in experimental, it's on the debian experimental site at least
16:31<valdyn>dr|z3d: experimental is not a staging area for many developers
16:31<c36pop>valdy: exim4 is an smtp server right ?
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16:31<dr|z3d>valdyn: True enough.
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16:31<valdyn>dr|z3d: this means that gnome-do 0.8 might be in sid tomorrow
16:31<Breadcultist> here
16:31<stuckey>What's Sid for?
16:31<valdyn>dr|z3d: or not )
16:31<dr|z3d>gnome-do 0.8 has the OSX style dock.
16:31<BlueG>dr|z3d: I am wondering why I would have non-free software on my system without me explicitly enabling and installing it. Shouldn't the default be all free?
16:32<stuckey>chealer: OKay, and that's all I need to do?
16:32<Breadcultist>bother this nonsense, I'll just get a mac
16:32<valdyn>BlueG: why do you think that is non-free?
16:32<valdyn>BlueG: why would you think its flash?
16:32<valdyn>BlueG: its free, its not flash
16:33<valdyn>BlueG: you could say its a flash clone, or tries to be that
16:33<chealer>BlueG: that's not Shockwave Flash. that's a free Flash player.
16:33<BlueG>valdyn: what is it?
16:34<chealer>stuckey: then you can follow the NvidiaGraphicsDrivers guide, taking care to install nvidia-glx from experimental at step 2. consider that you're installing the current drivers (let $VERSION unset).
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16:34<chealer>stuckey: BTW...which card do you use?
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16:35<stuckey>chealer: 9800 GT
16:35<BlueG>ah, I see a libswfdec installed along with swfdec-mozilla and swfdec-gnome
16:35<BlueG>I am guessing this is the free flash implementation
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16:36<dr|z3d>BlueG: That would be a good guess. If you're using Adobe's plugin, you'll see Adobe all over the place.
16:36-!-laberer [] has joined #debian
16:36<dr|z3d>At the very least, in about:plugins
16:36<BlueG>I am guessing the pretending to be flash is for sites that check for the availability of a flash plugin, or for its version for compatability purposes
16:36<chealer>stuckey: OK
16:37<stuckey>chealer: under step 2 I'm getting an error in apt that says it can't find nvidia-kernel-common
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16:38<chealer>stuckey: when running what?
16:38<BlueG>I wonder how it compares to gnash? (I don't know much about either, personally.)
16:38<stuckey>chealer: "apt-get install nvidia-kernel-common"
16:39<chealer>stuckey: you're still at step 1. are you sure that "step 0" is done?
16:39<Breadcultist>wait, this isn't even 0.8
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16:41<stuckey>chealer: ah... I see now. Thanks.
16:45<stuckey>chealer: I ran "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" but it isn't asking me anything about a xserver driver, as is talking about in step 3.
16:45<chealer>stuckey: why are you using the debconf way?
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16:45<stuckey>chealer: it was the first way listed in the wiki guide.
16:46<chealer>stuckey: yes, but it says to use the manual way unless you're using etch
16:47<stuckey>chealer: Didn't see that.
16:47<stuckey>OKay I'm going to test it now... thanks.
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16:50<Breadcultist>now trying to get gnome-do from the ubuntu repo, <- like this, how do I make it work D:
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16:51<stuckey>chealer: Did it the manual way; x-server wouldn't start, it said something about their being a mismatch between the kernel and something else... said to insure that everything is the right version.
16:51<Breadcultist>I followed the instructions there, the repo is added ok
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16:51<chealer>stuckey: are you sure you installed nvidia-glx from experimental?
16:51<stuckey>chealer: damn... I didn't do the "-t experimental" before I installed that...
16:51<chealer>stuckey: I said at step 2, that was actually step 3
16:51<stuckey>chealer: How do I fix it?
16:51<chealer>stuckey: right
16:52<chealer>stuckey: # apt-get -texperimental install nvidia-glx
16:52<stuckey>chealer: Okay isntalling...
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16:54<Breadcultist>The following packages have been kept back: gnome-do gnome-do-plugins{a} <- why they do this :(
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16:55<stuckey>chealer: Works. Thanks a lot
16:55<Breadcultist>I think this is what's known as dependency hell
16:56<stuckey>Simple question, how do I edit my grub entries to say something different, or change the order they're listed in?
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16:58<Breadcultist>vi /boot/grub/menu.lst (maybe)
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17:01<Breadcultist>now flash is crashing iceweasel again... adobe provides an uninstaller?
17:01-!-d0rt [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:02<Breadcultist>what was that 3 letter acronym that provides flash and stuff?
17:02<dr|z3d>(Shockwave Flash).
17:03<Breadcultist>nah, it was dmm
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17:04<chealer>Breadcultist: if you installed directly from adobe, ask adobe
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17:05<Breadcultist>I just did what I did the last time (twice): uninstalled and reinstalled iceweasel
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17:05<BlueG>How can I configure php to send mail via my gmail account?
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17:08<deadowl>I keep getting a debootstrap error when trying to install debian on a digital alphastation 300. Any ideas?
17:09<patrikf>deadowl: well, *what*'s the error? if it's longer than one line, please use a pastebin.
17:09<patrikf>best, paste all the output you got from debootstrap.
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17:09<deadowl>it pretty much said debootstrap error: your installation failure
17:09<chealer>BlueG: configure sendmail to send mail via your gmail account.
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17:10<deadowl>oh wait, it isn't running on the frame buffer cable so I can switch the Sun monitor to run it again right now and give you the exact error message, but it might take around 15-30 min.
17:10<BlueG>chealer: why sendmail instead of exim4?
17:11<steffan>how can I install the package 'ircd-hybrid' on my regular user 'steffan', rather than on 'root'?
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17:11<hypyrbole>during a debian boot up sequence I get this:
17:11<hypyrbole>[18.009336] ata2 SRST failed (errno=16)
17:12<hypyrbole>Never saw it with ubuntu on the same hardware, so Ubuntu must have been hiding it, or burying it
17:12<chealer>BlueG: in Debian, sendmail can be exim4
17:12<racecar56>i'm running debian lenny 5.0 and i have kde 3.5.10 and my vbox claims the sound is in use
17:12<hypyrbole>Is my HD about to fail?
17:12<deadowl>I hope my sgimips installation works this time
17:13<BlueG>chealer: oh... thats right, whichever mta *is* sendmail
17:13<racecar56>and my sound is not in use
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17:13<BlueG>chealer: apt-get configure exim4?
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17:14<chealer>!drec BlueG
17:14<dpkg>BlueG: dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config # run it as root
17:14<racecar56>i'm running debian lenny 5.0 and i have kde 3.5.10 and my vbox claims the sound is in use (but it isn't, could it be the window opening sound that's interfering? what i mean by it isn't in use as in i am not media-playering any music)
17:14<chealer>BlueG: but I don't think that will handle TLS configuration
17:14<jthomas>Anyone know when a newer kernel will hit Sid ?
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17:16<deadowl>any place I could figure out if installing on an SGI iris indigo would work?
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17:35<s3a>is there a channel for debian developpers?
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17:36<stew>s3a: many, they are generally topical, is there something in particular you want to know about?
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17:37<deadowl>okay digital alphastation 300 error: debootstrap warning: failure trying to run: chroot /target /sbin/ldconfig
17:37<s3a>stew, well i feel bugs that should be taken care of keep getting closed and neglected (others including me have filed similar bugs that were all ignored)
17:38<stew>s3a: can you give me an example?
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17:38<s3a>stew, CPU Frequency Scaling is still invisible on gnome-panel
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17:38<deadowl>and there are lots of kernel Buffer I/O errors on /dev/sda3 apparently
17:38<s3a>stew, on lenny
17:38<stew>s3a: what is the bug# ?
17:38<deadowl>any idea? bad HDD maybe?
17:39<s3a>stew, wait ill have to find it, i had to re-file it as gnome-panels or gnome-panel or something, i did this a long time ago and i saw someone that reported same thing from 2007 i think
17:40<stew>s3a: you, in general, shouldn't have to refile a bug, you should be able to reassign or reopen or some such
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17:40<s3a>stew, my bug has also been closed for anki and not fixed but i use mnemosyne instead of anki now and it suits me better plus it has no bugs
17:41<s3a>stew, wait let me fing the cpufrequtils bug
17:41<stew>s3a: if it was closed but not fixed, you should reopen it
17:41<stew>(with a Version: pseudoheader indicating which version it is found in)
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17:41<s3a>stew, its not the first time the bug was filed and its been ignored again
17:42<stew>s3a: please point me to the relevant bugs, if a maintainer is really misbehaving by closing bugs that aren't fixed, there are other things that can be done
17:43<s3a>stew, no but am i doing something wrong? 2 different maintainers close bugs on me without fixing them (wait im still searching for bug)
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17:43<stew>s3a: if maintainers are closing bugs that aren't fixed, then either they don't realize they aren't fixed, or they are doing something wrong
17:44<dondelelcaro>s3a: which bug are we talking about here?
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17:44<tcsetattr>I *wish* I could get people to close my bug reports without fixing them. At least that would prove someone noticed the report existed.
17:46<chealer>deadowl: the errors could help to tell
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17:46<s3a>stew, dondelelcaro, the initial report was but i cant find the new one filed as gnome-applets
17:48<stew>s3a: is cpufrequtils installed?
17:48<dondelelcaro>s3a: and in that case, the bug was closed because gnome-applets 2.24.2-1 recommends cpufrequtils, which presumably should solve the issue
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17:49<dondelelcaro>s3a: if it doesn't, and you've got cpufrequtils installed, providing more information in a followup message to the bug report would be a good idea
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17:52<s3a>dondelelcaro, what kind of information can i give that i havent alredy? and i really cant find my bug report anymore
17:52<chealer>dondelelcaro: in general, recommending a package doesn't solve genuine bugs. it may lower the severity.
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17:53<themill>chealer: a recommendation is for an optional feature -- it's not a bug if $editor's spell checked doesn't work because you chose not to install the spell checker.
17:53<dondelelcaro>chealer: uh... if the bug is that a package isn't installed that provides optional, but not required functionality, it does indeed fix the bug
17:53<s3a>dondelelcaro, stew, same issue, different bug -->
17:53<s3a>dondelelcaro, stew, also closed and unsolved
17:53<dondelelcaro>s3a: that's the same bug
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17:54<s3a>dondelelcaro, no
17:54<s3a>dondelelcaro, different bug report but same issue
17:54<dondelelcaro>s3a: it's merged with 509827, so it's the same bug
17:54<chealer>themill: depending on what "doesn't work" means, it may. being cleanly disabled is OK.
17:54<s3a>dondelelcaro, "Yes, this is a known issue; you need cpufrequtils installed for the
17:54<s3a>applet to work correctly.
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17:55<themill>chealer: the applet shows nothing without the recommended package. It's cleanly disabled.
17:55<s3a>dondelelcaro, i have it installed, ill just double check wait (other comp)
17:55<dondelelcaro>s3a: yes, and it was solved by making the package Recommends: cpufrequtils
17:55-!-aetheria [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:55<s3a>dondelelcaro, what does that mean?
17:55-!-sean_ [] has quit []
17:55<dondelelcaro>s3a: it means that by default it'll be installed when you install gnome-applets, but it isn't required to be installed
17:56<themill>s3a: it is expected that you will install packages that are Recommended by the packages you install. If you choose not to, then you have to live without all the functionality that you would otherwise have.
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17:56<s3a>dondelelcaro, themill, ok so what do i do for it to work then?
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17:56<chealer>themill: if the interface offers to enable a feature that can't be enabled, then doesn't complain when it's enabled, there's a bug
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17:57<themill>chealer: it does complain.
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17:57<chealer>themill: how? I don't know gnome-applets, but I didn't see that in the bug report
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17:58<themill>chealer: and unless you're suggesting either a hard depends here for the applets package (and everything that brings), then you're suggesting breaking each individual applet into a separate package. I can't see that being welcome.
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17:59<stew>an icon with a line through it indicating "broken" or something is probably the real fix
17:59-!-xxiao [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
17:59<stew>(or something similar)
17:59<tcsetattr>I think he's suggesting that there should be some visual feedback that it tried and failed to run the backend.
17:59<stew>i can't test here becuase my window manager is broken
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18:00<chealer>themill: I'm not suggesting any solution. as I wrote, I don't know gnome-applets. I'm just noting that if a package doesn't work correctly without another package which isn't a dependency, there's a bug.
18:00<themill>stew: umm... you wrote it...
18:00<stew>yes, and its broken
18:00<themill>chealer: it is a dependency. It's Recommended.
18:00<stew>i have to switch branches to add gnome-applets :)
18:00<themill>stew: oh dear....
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18:02<chealer>themill: I'm talking about absolute dependencies
18:02<tcsetattr>is there a tool that can generate a list of packages that are recommended by currently installed packages, but not installed? as far as I can tell you only get one chance to read the recommendation, at the initial install of the recommender
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18:03<themill>dpkg: tell tcsetattr about aptitude-fu
18:04<tcsetattr>oh good. I wonder how much ridiculous crap would be installed if I had listened to the recommendations. seeing it all at once should be fun.
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18:05<themill>chealer: there's no way that it should be any more than a recommends though. It's one applet amongst many and it's not essential functionality. That would seem to be the ideal case for "recommends" where if you do as you are supposed to and install recommends it works out of the box; if you have particular needs then you can choose to miss functionality without having to recompile all of gnome.
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18:06<chealer>themill: that's plausible.
18:07<tcsetattr>my recommended-but-not-installed total: 120 packages, including both emacs families
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18:09<chealer>tcsetattr: yes, # apt-get install --fix-policy --install-recommends
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18:11<richard_>papy est parti
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18:11<chealer>dondelelcaro: yes, but AFAICS that's not really the issue here. what you describe isn't really a bug.
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18:13<dondelelcaro>chealer: huh?
18:13<s3a>chealer, apt-get install --fix-policy --install-recommends doesn't help
18:14<chealer>s3a: why?
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18:14<chealer>dondelelcaro: I'm not sure what you mean.
18:14<tcsetattr>hey, I found 1 package (out of the 227 package it wanted to install) that's actually not a bad idea.
18:14<s3a>chealer, i don't know why but i tested it out and it doesn't help
18:14<dondelelcaro>chealer: what behavior that I describe isn't really a bug?
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18:15<chealer>dondelelcaro: "a package isn't installed that provides optional, but not required functionality"
18:15<dondelelcaro>chealer: it's certainly a bug if the package should be installed the most ordinary case
18:16<dondelelcaro>(and it's not currently recommended)
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18:16<chealer>dondelelcaro: it's unfortunate, but it's not a bug, properly speaking
18:16<stew>if you need a package to be installed for X to work, and user would expect X to work in usual circumstances, it should be recommends
18:16<s3a>chealer, cpu frequency scaling thing is still invisible
18:17<tcsetattr>the question is whether "normal use" of the package includes the particular item that's not working
18:17<dondelelcaro>chealer: if it isn't Recommends:, and it should be, it's a bug.
18:17<dondelelcaro>don't know how much simpler I can put it
18:17<chealer>s3a: when I wrote "apt-get install --fix-policy --install-recommends", I was writing to tcsetattr
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18:17<s3a>chealer, o lol.. sry
18:18<dondelelcaro>(specifically, it violates a "should" directive of policy, which is almost always a bug)
18:18<chealer>dondelelcaro: it isn't. you could call it a wishlist bug...if you wish :)
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18:18<dondelelcaro>perhaps it doesn't meet whatever definition of "bug" you're using, but as far as Debian is concerned, it is a bug
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18:19<k6orj>hello everyone, is ther an easy way to give write permission to the windows computer with samba?
18:19<Nidhoegger>hi, ive got a little problem with USB Media. when i try to cp files to the device it takes very long (about an hour for 500MB). After copying, he needs also about 10 minutes to unmount the device (i guess hes still writing data)
18:19<Nidhoegger>KDE shows me a transfer rate worser than DSL 1000 :(
18:19<Nidhoegger>command line takes same time as KDE, so its not a KDE related problem
18:20<Nidhoegger>sometimes it shows "stopped", somtimer about 20MB/s, but most time it shows about 40kib/s
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18:23<k6orj>hello everyone, is ther an easy way to give write permission to the windows computer with samba?
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18:25<tcsetattr>Nidhoegger, could you run "dmesg | grep -i usb" and see what it says about that device
18:25<Nidhoegger>k6orj try smb4k, very nice program (but needs QT)
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18:26<Nidhoegger> heres the dmesg
18:26<s4a>dondelelcaro, do you have an idea as to what i should do?
18:26<chealer>dondelelcaro: the directive you have in mind doesn't concern all packages that should be installed in the most ordinary case. but that section of policy could be improved anyway
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18:27<Nidhoegger>some other person said something about mounting sync or async. but i dont know what that means :(
18:28<tcsetattr>this one looks interesting: [ 717.125925] usb 1-3.3: not running at top speed; connect to a high speed hub
18:28<Nidhoegger>it is a USB 2.0 port, definitively
18:28<Nidhoegger>but still usb 1.1 should have more than 40kib/s?
18:28<k6orj>Nidhoegger I will try look at it. Thank you
18:28<Nidhoegger>but ill try another port, mom pls
18:28<tcsetattr>it's hard to tell what's what in that log. do you have any other USB devices coming and going?
18:29<Nidhoegger>only my printer
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18:29<Nidhoegger>it comes and goes when turning on or off
18:29<Nidhoegger>connecting to another port has messed up all my data :(
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18:30<Nidhoegger>okay im writing now on it
18:31<Nidhoegger>transfer begins every time at a high rate and then goes down
18:31<Nidhoegger>im now at 1,2MB/s
18:31<Nidhoegger>not at 40 :(
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18:32<Nidhoegger>and dmesg now says [ 3640.602000] usb 1-10: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 10
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18:32<tcsetattr>"high speed" is better than "full speed"
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18:32<Nidhoegger>but transfer is very slow again
18:32<tcsetattr>you did have some log entries that said "full speed"
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18:33<Nidhoegger>and now its a "native port" (the last one was an USB 2.0 hub with only that one device connected)
18:33-!-pde [~pde@] has joined #debian
18:34<Nidhoegger>btw, just for infos, what does that numbers in dmesg mean, are that the current system ticks?
18:34<tcsetattr>I don't know. I've never seen them before. that's a good guess though.
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18:35<Nidhoegger>its since newer kernels
18:36<tcsetattr>must be really new. I'm running 2.6.28 and I don't have those numbers.
18:36<pde>linux-image-2.6.26-1-686 is supposed to be in unstable, right?
18:36<pde>for some reason I can't see it...
18:36<Nidhoegger>i got 2.6.26, i think its stable in debian 5.0 since 14th feb
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18:38<pde>hmmm, I guess it's in the pool but not in unstable's Packages.gz
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18:38<pde>I wonder why not
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18:38<Nidhoegger>should be stable i think
18:39<Nidhoegger>in lenny it works perfectly for me
18:39<FoxM>Hi. How do I configure a mouse in xorg.conf? It is not automatically detected because I had to add the 'void' driver as an InputDevice and disable the SendCoreEvents.
18:39<Nidhoegger>on amd64 and 686
18:39<LL00>2.6.28 is coming
18:39<Nidhoegger>2.6.28 is according to stable
18:39<Nidhoegger>and i use that kernel on my gentoo machine, it IS stable ;)
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18:40<dr|z3d>2.6.28 doesn't work for me, currently. (Old hardware).
18:40<Nidhoegger>whats the prob with it? which hardware?
18:41<dr|z3d>Oh, something to do with the watchdog module, on an old Compaq Deskpro.
18:41<Nidhoegger>hmmm strange
18:42<pde>I was just hoping to upgrade my kernel, since 2.6.24 seems to be giving me lots of weird usb errors (and probably contains all sorts of security flaws), but there don't seem to be any other built kernels in unstable
18:42<FoxM>Hi. How do I configure a mouse in xorg.conf? It is not automatically detected because I had to add the 'void' driver as an InputDevice and disable the SendCoreEvents.
18:42<pde>I guess I could build one, but that seems drastic
18:42<Nidhoegger>pde usb errors on vfat devices?
18:42-!-saihan [] has joined #debian
18:42<dazjorz>saihan: isn't that "bye"?
18:43<pde>no, this is a USB drive with native linux filesystems
18:43<dazjorz>saihan: I guess you know better, seeing your hostname :P
18:43<pde>Nidhoegger: but I've recently seen errors on vfat devices too
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18:43<Nidhoegger>pde i got them too...formatting the device reduces the errors (but dont kill em all ;D)
18:43<dr|z3d>dazjorz: ciao is either hello or goodye in Italian.
18:43<pde>it might be hardware, but I thought I'd try to rule out kernel-related sources
18:44<dazjorz>dr|z3d: Ok interesting
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18:44<saihan>hey i'm new user of xubuntu so can u tell me please some tricks
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18:45<dr|z3d>saihan: You might want to install the following packages. startupmanager bum xfce4-goodies
18:45-!-saihan [] has quit []
18:45<dr|z3d>saihan: You might also want to redirect yourself to #ubuntu or #xubuntu on .. this is the debian support channel. :)
18:45<dazjorz>dr|z3d: he's gone, he just left
18:46<dr|z3d>Seems like he got the message before I even typed it. Clever guy.
18:46*dr|z3d smiles.
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18:47<dazjorz>well, maybe he did
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18:47<chealer>pde: wrong (2.6.28 was uploaded)
18:47<dazjorz>I wouldn't bet my money on it :P
18:48*dazjorz off to sleep, ciao ;)
18:48<pde>chealer: apt-cache search 2.6.28 gives me:
18:48<chealer>pde: i386 linux-2.6 is in NEW
18:48<dr|z3d>pde: Resist the urge to paste multiple lines here :)
18:48<pde>dr|z3d: I did :)
18:49*dr|z3d smiles and congratulates pde.
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18:50<Nidhoegger>yay :D
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18:51<pde>chealer: So it is. Does that mean that it'll get compiled, etc, and then show up in the next few days?
18:51<chealer>pde: it's already compiled. it should be accepted in the next hours
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18:52<Nidhoegger>as stable?
18:52*pde has not paid any attention to debian development processes for many years
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18:52<pde>I just see the world through apt
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18:54<adb>linux-image-2.6.28-1-amd64 in in repos yet
18:54<adb>is* in
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18:55<Nidhoegger>brb, reboot ;)
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18:59<Nidhoegger>when i apt-get the new kernel, will debian set up grub new or have i to do that manually
19:00<Tekno>it is set up automatically
19:01<amphi>it'll be done for you
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19:03<Nidhoegger>as a previous gentoo user i feel like a king let programs do all the work :D
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19:07<racecar56>i'm running debian lenny 5.0 and i have kde 3.5.10 and my vbox claims the sound is in use (but it isn't, could it be the window opening sound that's interfering? what i mean by it isn't in use as in i am not media-playering any music)
19:07<aetheria_>Nidhoegger: update-initramfs is run automatically. check the man page for more info.
19:08<racecar56>actually i tried disabling the window open sound and it did not help
19:08<Nidhoegger>racecar56, run virtualbox via arts virtualbox
19:09<Nidhoegger>i think kde 3.5 still uses arts
19:09<racecar56>it didnt worjk
19:10<racecar56>arts is installed but arts isn't a command
19:10<SlimeyPete>arts is a sound server
19:10<Nidhoegger>if artsd is installed, arts should be a command
19:10-!-zox_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:10<racecar56>coudn't find package artsd
19:11<racecar56>and arts is already installed
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19:11<Nidhoegger>kde 3.5 blocks the sound device for 60 seconds after a sound is played via arts, if you run stuff via arts then u use the kde sound daemon
19:11<aetheria_>racecar56: run lsof |egrep "(snd|dsp)" as root to see what is using the sound
19:11<Nidhoegger>it was artswrapper i think
19:12<racecar56>sudo lsof | egrep "(snd|dsp)"
19:12<themill>!list alsa users
19:12<dpkg>To see what processes are using (and perhaps blocking) your sound device: ps `lsof +D /dev -F rt | awk '/^p/ {pid=$1} /^t/ {type=$1} /^r0x74..$/ && type == "tCHR" {print pid} /^r0xe..$/ && type == "tCHR" {print pid}' | cut -c 2- | uniq`. Alternatively, fuser /dev/snd/* /dev/dsp /dev/mixer
19:12<aetheria_>also, aplay -l will list configured devices
19:12<Nidhoegger>what do i have to type in to get the new kernel?
19:12<racecar56>returns nothing
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19:13<Nidhoegger>maybe kde freed the sound device, it blocks it only 60 seconds
19:13<Nidhoegger>play a sound and try again
19:13<racecar56>*start the vm
19:13<racecar56>hey it works
19:14<Nidhoegger>kde -.-
19:14<Nidhoegger>run vbox via artswrapper virtualbox
19:14<Nidhoegger>then kde und vbox will play sound at the same time
19:14<racecar56>*artswrapper VirtualBox (it only likes it with caps)
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19:17<Nidhoegger>which kernel version do u have?
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19:17<racecar56>me? 2.6.26
19:18<racecar56>debian lenny 5.0
19:18<Nidhoegger>hmmm alsa should support already what arts does, deactivate the sound wrapper in kcontrol and youll never have this problem again
19:18<Nidhoegger>its just kde 3.5 that uses arts by default (and arts is crap)
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19:19<Nidhoegger>brb. smoking
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19:22<adama>why does iceweasel insist on using 100% CPU for upwards of 10 minutes, when I start it and recover session (probably about 15 tabs over 4 windows)? It looks like it's trying to render the pages (since I can't see them yet) but I could probably do it all manually faster, if I could remember all the URLs...
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19:23<adama>does that happen for you all as well?
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19:23<racecar56>if you mean like when you start iceweasel the disk access goes insane, yse
19:23<Nidhoegger>make a new folder in the favs with all urls, start iceweasel and klick the folder with the middle mouse. that will oben all URLs in the folder via abs
19:24<adama>racecar56: not disk access, just CPU
19:24-!-winthrowe [] has joined #debian
19:24<adama>I want my previous windows and tabs, not some specific urls
19:26<Nidhoegger>i tried it atm, iceweasel has no probs recovering my session
19:26<Nidhoegger>it does it really quick
19:26<Nidhoegger>maybe reinstall it?
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19:26<racecar56>how do i disable the sound wrapper
19:26<Nidhoegger>in kcontrol somewhere, i dont have kde 3.5, so i cant tell exactly
19:27<adama>it might be because I had so many open, and it also has to recover the history for each tab as well
19:27<Nidhoegger>use sound wrapper was the option i think
19:27<Nidhoegger>i dont know exactly
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19:28<Nidhoegger>is there a tool to convert flv to xvid and resize it to 320x240?
19:29<racecar56>i know avidemux has to do with xvid
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19:29<racecar56>(but it just so happens that it isnt in the debian repo(
19:29<Nidhoegger>avidemux is in the repos
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19:29<racecar56>not for me
19:30<Nidhoegger>i think i got it because of the debian multimedia repo
19:30<Nidhoegger>yes it is ;)
19:30<racecar56>where is it
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19:32<adama>Nidhoegger: I'm pretty sure mencoder will do that conversion
19:32<Nidhoegger>is there a gui for it?
19:33<adama>no but it has a mile-long man page :)
19:33*Nidhoegger loves reading manpages
19:34<adama>8400 lines
19:34<s4a>wen i learn python, is there much i can do to help the debian project?
19:35<dondelelcaro>s4a: loads of things
19:35<dondelelcaro>s4a: for starters
19:39-!-mode/#debian [+l 418] by debhelper
19:39<s4a>dondelelcaro, can there be two maintainers for 1 package? and can I "steal" someone else's GPL software and become the maintainer for it?
19:40<Nidhoegger>you cant steal the GPL :D
19:40<Nidhoegger>read it and learn what you can and what not
19:41<dondelelcaro>s4a: maintainers often cooperate in teams
19:42<dondelelcaro>(and almost every maintainer accepts patches)
19:42<s4a>Nidhoegger, i had it in ""
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19:42<Nidhoegger>i know ;)
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19:48<shze>If I run "nm-tool", I dont see any hidden networks I see in "iwlist eth1 scan". why? how can I connect to a hidden network with network-manager then?
19:49<s4a>dondelelcaro, what about some application that isn't in repositories and is only distributed as a .deb or source (can i maintain it for debian's repository?)
19:49<dpkg>For information on packages which are not in Debian but you think should be, check the Work-Needing and Prospective Packages list at Also use the script wnpp-alert (from the devscripts package) to see what packages you are using that are in need of help.
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19:52<dondelelcaro>s4a: you can package it and find a sponsor who will upload it
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20:01<s4a>dondelelcaro, sponsor?
20:02<ry60003333>Huh wut o.o
20:02<dondelelcaro>s4a: for example
20:03<ry60003333>Shouldn't the topic say 5.0 released? :O
20:03<dondelelcaro>ry60003333: it does?
20:03<dondelelcaro>(it's the very first thing listed)
20:03<ry60003333>Nvm I r dumb
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20:31<deadowl>hmm... when netbooting an SGI indy, it checks for a multiply/shift bug which fails, and then it looks for a workaround and (no). Then there's a kernel panic and it says enable CPU_R4000_WORKAROUNDS to rectify. What do I do?
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20:38<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. when I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask later or ask
20:39<dr|z3d>Ah, you did deadowl.
20:39<deadowl>Yea, I got Debian installed on the other Indy.
20:39<dr|z3d>deadowl: Have you googled for CPU_R4000_WORKAROUNDS + debian ?
20:39<dr|z3d>Nothing showing up, then, I guess?
20:40<blarson>deadowl: Sounds like you need a kernel recompile.
20:40<deadowl>I was thinking that maybe there was possibly a way to pass an argument to the kernel
20:40<deadowl>oh god
20:40<blarson>deadowl: You'll probably get more help in the appropriate mailing list (debian-mips?)
20:41<deadowl>Every time I've tried compiling the kernel I get a kernel panic because I suck at configuring it.
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20:41<abrotman>or possibly even the debian-kernel mailing list
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20:45<deadowl>The alphastation lost track of the CDROM and HDD when I swapped out the HDD for some reason as well :(
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21:42<carlos>more repository :)
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21:59<peyman_t>hi everyone, how do you transfer music from linux to ipod shuffle?
22:00*abrotman looks at peyman_t
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22:09<ry60003333>peyman_t: Run iTunes in wine
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22:25<Jpdota>Hey, I'
22:26<Jpdota>Hey, I've downloaded the DVD's for i386 in an attempt to get an old laptop (with a mysterious dvd-rom drive) up and running, is there a way i can write all the dvd's to the laptops hard drive so that apt can use the laptop itself as a repository?
22:27<Jpdota>(it has no network connection)
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22:27<dr|z3d>Jpdota: Sure.
22:28<twb>I'm fantasizing about switching to an ARM-based netbook again. How can I generate a list of all packages I'm currently using that aren't available on armel?
22:28<Jpdota>dr|z3d: care to elaborate? :P
22:28<abrotman>twb: dpkg --get-selections .. then use some shell magic on the Packages file for the arm architecture
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22:29<twb>abrotman: hmm, I could even just boot an armel VM...
22:29<abrotman>or that
22:29<dr|z3d>Jpdota: There are some apt tools that should allow you to create an offline repository.
22:29<twb>dpkg --set-selections?
22:29<dpkg>twb: are you smoking crack?
22:29<dr|z3d>Others will know more.. I nominate abrotman :)
22:29<abrotman>twb: --get-selections
22:30<twb>abrotman: I meant on the VM
22:30<twb>piping it in
22:30<abrotman>twb: so you still have a packages file there
22:31<Jpdota>dr|z3d: :D gotcha
22:33<Jpdota>abrotman: thanks =)
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23:07<chealer>what software allows to create vertical trees (like derivation trees) comfortably? something like
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23:15<twb>chealer: graphviz
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23:18<w1aditya>hai,how do you do
23:19<w1aditya>hai,may i know yoir name?
23:19<w1aditya>bagus sekali
23:19<w1aditya>cinta memang buta
23:20<dr|z3d>w1aditya: Please, be sensible.
23:20<w1aditya>ketika mata memendang di saat itulah cinta memberikan arti
23:20-!-ubuntu [] has joined #debian
23:21<w1aditya>yes.,,..i am
23:21<ubuntu>who are you
23:21<ubuntu>go to bed
23:22<w1aditya>strength boy
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23:22<ubuntu>where are you from
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23:22<amphi>ubuntu: you appear to be lost - this is a debian support channel
23:22<w1aditya>r n ro
23:23<w1aditya>are you guy/////////???????????
23:23<ubuntu>im girls
23:23<ubuntu>Paula from New Zeland
23:23<stew>ubuntu: w1aditya: this isn't a social channel. you can try #moocows if you are looking for a social channel
23:23-!-ubuntu [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:23<w1aditya>l am sorry
23:24-!-Astero1D [] has joined #debian
23:24<w1aditya>how old are you????????????///
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23:24<chealer>twb: thanks. which graphviz tools would you use to do that?
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23:27*dr|z3d wonders if Ganneff is about.
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23:27<twb>chealer: e.g. echo "dot { a -> b -> c; b -> c1; }" | dot -Tpng >tmp.png
23:27<stew>w1aditya: do you have a debian related question?
23:27<twb>chealer: has docs and examples.
23:28<w1aditya> l think is agood web site
23:28-!-mode/#debian [+o stew] by ChanServ
23:28-!-mode/#debian [+q *!*@] by stew
23:28-!-mode/#debian [-o stew] by stew
23:29<dr|z3d>Well done, stew.
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23:33<chealer>twb: that fails with "Error: <stdin>:1: syntax error near line 1". is there a particular part of documentation I should look at, or how much time do you think it would take to learn by myself how to do such graphs?
23:33-!-milk [] has joined #debian
23:33<milk>Lenny is the roxor
23:34<twb>chealer: oops, s/dot/digraph/
23:34<twb>chealer: I don't remember offhand which docs you need to read, I mostly just use the ones on
23:34<milk>[ 1082.264578] hde: KINGSTON DP-PCM2/5GB, ATA DISK drive
23:34<milk>[ 1082.936357] ide2 at 0x3100-0x3107,0x310e on irq 3
23:34<milk>[ 1082.936475] hde: max request size: 128KiB
23:34<milk>[ 1082.936483] hde: 9818550 sectors (5027 MB) w/212KiB Cache, CHS=10390/15/63
23:34<milk>[ 1082.936561] hde:<4>hde: lost interrupt
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23:34<milk>is it dead Jim?
23:35<dr|z3d>milk: You are the suxor. Don't spam the channel. Thanks. :)
23:35<twb>chealer: they are fairly straightforward; you have a grouping brace around the whole thing, then a bunch of x -> y (x points to y) lines.
23:35<twb>chealer: it's the format used by apt-cacher dotty, for example.
23:35<twb>Er, apt-cahe
23:36<twb>e.g. apt-cache dotty mg | dot -Tsvg | display
23:37<twb>chealer: where it gets complicated is if you want to force graphviz to use a particular layout; if you have strong needs in this direction you might be better off with metapost or that little diagramming tool that groff ships with... esr wrote some docs on it...
23:37<twb>pic(1), that's it
23:38<kop>twb, chealer : Pretty neat. Looks painless.
23:39<twb>kop: hmm, which is this?
23:39<kop>twb: Your dot example & man dot.
23:40<twb>dot is used pretty heavily by programs that want to automatically lay out node-and-arc graphs
23:40<chealer>twb: thanks, the digraph is not bad, but indeed I need it to be a tree and to have no outline and arrow ends. plus the many identical labels
23:40<twb>chealer: that's just formatting guff
23:40<milk>later that log
23:40<milk>[ 1382.936234] hde: lost interrupt
23:40<milk>[ 1412.936232] hde: lost interrupt
23:40<milk>[ 1412.936614] hde1
23:40<milk>[ 1412.936771] ide-cs: hde: Vpp = 0.0
23:40<milk>[ 1442.952030] hde: lost interrupt
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23:40<twb>chealer: e.g. node [style=plaintext];
23:40-!-milk [] has joined #debian
23:41<milk>ok ok Im going
23:41<stew>!tell milk about paste
23:41<kop>twb, chealer : There's always dia, if you want to manually lay everything out.
23:41<twb>chealer: or a14 [label="a"]
23:41<twb>Yeah, I hate dia
23:41<dr|z3d>milk: If you're trying to paint yourself as an asshat, well done, you've succeeded. :)
23:41<twb>inkscape is slowly getting dia's featureset, and inkscape has a much nicer interface
23:41<kop>twb: I just unlike it.
23:41<dr|z3d>kop: Tried XaraLX?
23:42<twb>I was very impressed by the non-Free, OS X-only _OmniGraffle_ software.
23:42<kop>twb: So far, inkscape won't do what I need. But then I'm still on etch.
23:42<dr|z3d>twb: Have *you* tried XaraLX?
23:42<kop>dr|z3d : Last I looked it didn't have much gpled. They're working at it.
23:42<kop>dr|z3d : That was a ways back.
23:43<twb>dr|z3d: not really, though I looked at it
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23:44<dr|zed>kop: No, this is now. And they're not working on it anymore, the project's frozen.
23:45<dr|zed>kop: However, it's still a very competent vector app, in my view the best Linux has.
23:45<kop>dr|zed : frozen?
23:45<dr|zed>kop: Development halted.
23:46<kop>dr|zed :( I'm not really interested in something that I can't use into the indefinate future.
23:46<dr|zed>kop: You will be able to.. source is available, some notional chat about remapping rendering to cairo.
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23:47<dr|zed>kop: And you're looking at the culimnation of 15 years of development.. quite a mature app.
23:47<kop>dr|zed : Then why no further development?
23:49<dr|zed>kop: The zealots killed it through non-participation and backstabbing. The InkScape lead dev was especially damaging.
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23:57<chealer>twb: thanks, I'm getting close
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23:59<twb>dr|z3d: haha, the Inkscape people were "backstabbing" for not contributing to Xara for the 14 years it spent as a proprietary product?
23:59<dr|zed>twb: Um, no.
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---Logclosed Wed Feb 25 00:00:00 2009