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#debian IRC Logs for 2009-05-06

---Logopened Wed May 06 00:00:04 2009
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00:02<hobo>hello everyone
00:02<hingwah>gsimmons, thx, that works
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00:16<hobo>could someone help me with a problem?
00:16<hobo> I just installed debian 5 from the net install cd and it seems I don't have the correct display drivers because the max resolution I can set is 800x600 and the display does not use the whole screen the install is on a HP Pavilion N5425
00:17<sney>do you know what graphics chip you have?
00:18<sney>or even if it's ati or nvidia etc
00:18<hobo>the only thing i could find out about it is that it is a trident video card
00:18<sney>trident, wow
00:18<sney>I didn't know they were still around
00:18<hobo>ya its an old laptop
00:18<sney>well that should improve your chances actually
00:19<sney>old stuff is typically better supported... we outclass windows in that regard :O)
00:21<sney>the driver for trident cards ships with debian and is called "trident" of all things
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00:23<hobo>yes and that is the driver i have install but as i said i can't set a resolution higher then 800x600
00:23<RobotCow>is the freenode network down?
00:23<compgrokker>RobotCow: no, i'm connected
00:24<RobotCow>hobo, sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg
00:25<RobotCow>compgrokker, i dont know why they would of ban me unless someone i allowed in my git ssh account got on irc and had my ip banned
00:25<sney>hobo: do you know what the native resolution of that laptop is?
00:25<compgrokker>RobotCow: *shrug*
00:25<RobotCow>compgrokker, any way to find out if im banned?
00:25<compgrokker>RobotCow: i don't know, but i can find out
00:26<RobotCow>compgrokker, thanks
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00:26<hobo>sney: um it was set at 1024x768 when it was running windows if that helps
00:26<sney>that's probably it, I doubt an old trident chip could handle any more
00:26<RobotCow>shouldnt it be a wide screen resolution for laptop?
00:27<hobo>not a wide screen laptop
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00:27<compgrokker>RobotCow: everyone says it prolly sounds like you got k-lined, if you can't connect
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00:27<compgrokker>RobotCow: i assume the connection keeps getting refused, it's not a dns problem or anything
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00:28<RobotCow>compgrokker, can you ask if im banned in #freenode
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00:29<sney>here hobo, the subsection "Display" from this should go into your xorg.conf
00:29<sney>it should be fairly obvious where to put it
00:30<compgrokker>RobotCow: is your nick the same?
00:30<sney>that'll force it to just use that resolution, if that's the wrong one, just edit it and restart X
00:30<compgrokker>RobotCow: i'll give them both nick and ip
00:31<RobotCow>compgrokker, ok
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00:32<hobo>sney: ok thanks I will give that a try now
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00:33<compgrokker>RobotCow: what message do you get when you try to connect?
00:33<sney>make sure to backup your xorg.conf so you can get back if it doesn't work
00:33<compgrokker>RobotCow: you should get a message about being k-lined
00:33<RobotCow>»» Looking up»» Stopped previous connection attempt (pid=9257)»» Looking up
00:34<compgrokker>RobotCow: it's a dns problem
00:35<compgrokker>RobotCow: <lstarnes> if looking it up fails, the problem is probably his dns resolver or dns servers
00:35<compgrokker>RobotCow: <Chr|s> or router isn't properly forwarded maybe?
00:36<compgrokker>RobotCow: <goose> possibly. has he tried DMZ'ing himself on his router?
00:36<compgrokker>RobotCow: logging back out from #freenode now, that should point you in the right direction
00:36<RobotCow>never needed to port forward to use irc. im connected to this network without doing that.
00:37<compgrokker>RobotCow: they were just throwing out suggestions
00:37<RobotCow>and i am connected to the net through my tmobile blackberry phone acting as a modem and tmobile firewalls it so i cant open ports
00:37<compgrokker>but yeah, it does sound like a dns problem
00:37<RobotCow>which server are you connected with so i cause it doesnt seem to be having dns issues
00:37<compgrokker>well, if you're connected here, it's prolly not a port issue
00:38<compgrokker>RobotCow: anthony
00:38<compgrokker>RobotCow: and just because i'm not having dns issues doesn't mean you won't-- my isp has random dns issues sometimes
00:39<compgrokker>but yeah, you can try *shrug*
00:39<RobotCow>ok im in now
00:40<compgrokker>RobotCow: k
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00:59<nataraj>anybody using emdebian on Atmel boards?
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01:02<hobo>sney: ok i edited xorg.conf but it seems that there are lines missing becuase i don't see the line `Device` or `DefaultDepth` in fact the only line in there before i added to it was the `Identifier` line
01:02<sney>DefaultDepth is one you need to add
01:02<sney>along with Modes
01:02<sney>those are the 2 that control what you are trying to do
01:02<sney>just put that Subsection "Display" inside Section "Screen"
01:03<sney>doesn't matter what's there already
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01:16<bolice>anybody here?
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01:17<bolice>can you see me?
01:18<Steven_M>does this securty advisary only appy to etch?:
01:19<Steven_M>bolice: hi
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01:19<sney>Steven_M: it only applies to systems using 2.6.24 kernels
01:19<sney>so, yes
01:19<sney>or anyone using an old kernel for whatever reason
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01:20<sney>uname -r to see your kernel version
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01:33<Steven_M>sney: cool thanks :)
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01:40<hobo>sney: ok i must not be doing something right, there is no change and yes i did restart xserver
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01:47<hobo>sney: thanks for trying got to sleep now i have work in the morning thanks again
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02:38<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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02:49<fanto666>Hello, is it OK, when a package refuses to uninstall/upgrade, just because the daemon is not running and thus can not be stopped?
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02:49<jm_>fanto666: not OK, but it's also easy to fix
02:50<fanto666>jm_: should I file a bugreport in such case?
02:50<jm_>fanto666: which package is it?
02:50<fanto666>wwwoffle, but IIRC I've had similar problem(s) with other packages
02:51<fanto666>or at least one package, don't remember
02:52<fanto666>I think more packages have the "start-stop-daemon --stop ... || exit $?" in their prerm scritps
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02:53<fanto666>or "invoke-rc.d <...> stop || exit $?". replacing "$?" with "0" helps but I'm not sure if that's the right fix.
02:54<fanto666>Maybe a rc-script should not fail if the daemon is not running?
02:54<jm_>fanto666: something similar is bug #506381
02:55<fanto666>aha, yes
02:55<jm_>fanto666: the problem with ignoring stop action is that it might cause problems when stop really fails
02:55<fanto666>precisely. the "is not running" should be however not understood as error
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02:57<fanto666>it's more probably rc-script error... do you know this part of the policy?
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02:57<jm_>yes, I suppose it should check if it's running first and only then try to stop it and error if it fails
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02:58<jm_>The init.d scripts must ensure that they will behave sensibly (i.e., returning success and not starting multiple copies of a service) if invoked with start when the service is already running, or with stop when it isn't, and that they don't kill unfortunately-named user processes. The best way to achieve this is usually to use start-stop-daemon with the --oknodo option.
02:59<fanto666>which section is that? I'm replying the bug
03:00<jm_>9.3.2 Writing the scripts
03:00<jm_>9.3 System run levels and init.d scripts
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03:09<cmot>Yo all!
03:10<cmot>Anybody knows how to restart plasma if it disappears (no crash was detected, so it was not automatically restarted. But I don't have a panel, and the background picture is gone, the background is just black now.)
03:11-!-mode/#debian [+l 396] by debhelper
03:12<cmot>Why not try the obvious first.
03:12<cmot>"plasma" at the cmdline.
03:12*cmot hides under a convenient rock
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03:42<sheldonh>can i do some magic in a shell script to check whether a package version "is at least X.Y.Z"?
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03:42<cmot>see man dpkg: --compare-versions
03:44<cmot>sheldonh, do you already know the dctrl-tools package? various tools to access the package database from scripts.
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03:45<cmot>(I find the command line syntax of these things quite horrible, though. But it's still better than to parse the output of "dpkg -l" and "apt-cache policy" etc. ;-)
03:46<sheldonh>oh, that's nice too. but i don't want to roll a new package to 1,100 servers for this. will do that later
03:47<sheldonh>hmmm. i need a character other than space that's illegal in package names and package versions. time to hit the policy
03:47<cmot>sheldonh, without having verified it: underscore?
03:47<jm_>dpkg-awk is also useful to parse it
03:47<cmot>(it's used in package file names to separate name from version after all)
03:48<sheldonh>yeah. just worried that it's allowed in versions. will check
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03:48<cmot>jm_, will have to look at it. How does it compare to dctrl-tools?
03:48<jm_>cmot: I find it much easier to use
03:49<cmot>will have to look at it.
03:49<sheldonh>cmot: confirmed. underscore is my guy, thanks
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03:51<OdyX>hiya cmot !
03:52<cmot>OdyX, Yodel!
03:52*OdyX dances around cmot.
03:52<OdyX>How are you ?
03:52<OdyX>I thought you had retired from IRC'ing ;)
03:52<cmot>Fine. Just wondering how old the libpq interface is. Seems a bit ... errrrm ... arcane.
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03:53<OdyX>I don't know if you read -devel, but we just talked about your gpg subkeys article
03:53<cmot>OdyX, No, I haven't retired from IRC. I'm just not around very often.
03:53<cmot>OdyX, gpg: Huh ... then you've seen the disclaimer.
03:54<OdyX>cmot: yes. But it helped to understand the thing.
03:54<OdyX>"[09:20] <OdyX> I'd say something like: 1. create subkey 2. backup {sec,pub}ring.gpg 3. export public and private key 4. import in new keyring with --homedir 5. edit key to delete everything but the desired subkey (keep --homedir) 6. --export-secret-subkeys (keep --homedir) 7. transmit this to your other computer 8. shred your temporary --homedir 8. Send your new key to keyservers"
03:54<cmot>Are you the one to take it over and brush it up? I'm waaaaaaayyyy out of touch with recent gpg development.
03:54<OdyX>well... huh... no
03:54<OdyX>no time :(
03:55<OdyX>yes... I should not have started to work ;)
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03:56<cmot>(For the wider audience: we're talking about, and I mean it: I'm looking for somebody to maintain the page... :-)
03:56<OdyX>cmot: well... If I provide you a text file with a clear explanation, will you post it ? (/me tries to find professional time for this )
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03:57<cmot>OdyX: how about we move this to pages and you do whatever you like?
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03:57<OdyX>cmot: with my super-fantastic-svn access ? ;)
03:57<cmot>OdyX, yep
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03:58<OdyX>yay ! We could then at least collaborate (I know that gismo at least uses subkeys and would certainly have some stuff to add)
03:58<OdyX>(or wiki.d.o
03:58<cmot>(That'd obviously mean the google ads would disappear, too. This would cost me at least USD 0.5$ per year income.)
03:58<cmot>OdyX, wiki.d.o would probably be even better.
03:59<cmot>OdyX, as soon as you find time: create it on wiki.d.o, then tell me, I'll put up a link on the current page.
03:59<OdyX>cmot: That's a good plan.
04:00<cmot>Back to postgres now, got some work to do :-)
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04:01<OdyX>okay ! See you cmot ! Always a pleasure to meet...
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04:03<Ascavasaion>I did an update on my Debian system and when I tried to restart X-Windows it refused. I then downloaded the newest NVidia driver for my Legacy display card and the driver needed a newer kernel. When I had completed all of that I restarted the machine and Grub refuses to load because it cannot find the partition. Any ideas please?
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04:04<Ascavasaion>Iam not here using an Ubuntu Live CD.
04:04<jm_>how can we help you if you are not here?
04:04<Ascavasaion>hehe I am not=now here using an Ubuntu Live CD hehehe
04:04<jm_>but fdisk can list it?
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04:05<jm_>or /proc/partitions
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04:06<Ascavasaion>fdisk -l gives me /dev/sdd1 1 241 123376 4 FAT16 <32M
04:06<Supaplex>ewww it's fat.
04:06<Ascavasaion>vi /proc/partitions
04:07<Ascavasaion>Supaplex: No, I think that is the Ubuntu CD, or the memory stick.
04:07<Supaplex>o. well, don't try and edit /proc/partitions okay? :)
04:07<Ascavasaion>Supaplex: Okay hehe
04:08<Ascavasaion>Supaplex = that awesome computer game form long ago? Loved it.
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04:09<dpkg>from memory, supaplex is a classic game from the m$dos days featuring 111 levels of insanity. Now it's freeware, and has somewhere around 11 level seperate sets of (111) levels. a super hero one man support team, or see
04:10<Ascavasaion>Okay, so how do I get the Grub loader to load the linux partition? I tried boot (hd0,1) and nothing I then tried root (hd0,1) and it says that it is ext2fs.
04:10<Supaplex>dpkg: supaplex =~ s/11 level/11/
04:10<dpkg>OK, Supaplex
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04:11<Supaplex>stab around for a config file. config<tab> (hd0,1)/<tab>
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04:12<jm_>you do root (hdx,y) and then kernel, initrd and finally boot
04:12<Ascavasaion>Aaaargh... how can it just 'forget' what partition it booted from?
04:12<Supaplex>root (hd<tab>
04:12<jm_>maybe your grub config file is bad
04:13<Supaplex><tab> is your friend there. :)
04:13<enouf>find /boot/grub/stage1
04:13<Ascavasaion>jm_: Bad thanks to the apt-get... hmmm
04:13<jm_>Ascavasaion: not apt-get, but because upadte-grub was run and maybe something went wrong
04:14<Ascavasaion>do I not need to somehow mount the hda partition? I am ona live CD thing now.
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04:14<dpkg>well, rescue is at ("Can I use d-i as a rescue system?") Ask me about <rescue mode>.
04:14<jm_>depends what you are trying to do
04:15<Ascavasaion>jm_: Well, I am trying to find the brub info... and all I cna see it seems to be the current Live CD thing.
04:16<jm_>Ascavasaion: then you'll need to mount your fs with /boot on it yes
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04:17<Ascavasaion>jm_: HOw do i mount it if I cannot find it?
04:18<jm_>Ascavasaion: how can we help you without any information?
04:18<jm_>at least paste /rpoc/partitions on some pastebin
04:19<Ascavasaion>Okay, be right back.
04:21<Ascavasaion>Okay, I managed to muont it... turns out Ubuntu renamed the hda to sda
04:23<ghantoos>Ascavasaion: it is not ubuntu but the kernel that renamed the disks IIRC
04:23<Ascavasaion>ghantoos: Oh, okay.
04:23<majhool>Ascavasaion: you have SATA, i would guess
04:23<Ascavasaion>majhool: No... ATA
04:24<majhool>no serial? just plain old, 2001 style ATA?
04:24<Ascavasaion>majhool: Yes, I think so.
04:24<majhool>how old's the computer?
04:24<Ascavasaion>majhool: Umm... about 6-7 years.
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04:25<majhool>ok then, yeah, i bet it's ata too
04:25<majhool>it's weird that it'd be sda
04:26<Ascavasaion>majhool: I know.. under my debian installation it was always referred to as hdX, but with this LIVe CD (Ubuntu 8.1) it is referred to as sdX
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04:27<Ascavasaion>So, how do I sort out the grub loader?
04:27<ghantoos>Ascavasaion: it depends of a kernel flag
04:27<ghantoos>Ascavasaion: grep CONFIG_SCSI_SAS_ATA /boot/config-`uname -r`
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04:29<Ascavasaion> I pasted the /proc/partitions and I also pasted a bit of the /boot/grub/menu.1st
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04:29<ghantoos>Ascavasaion: as for the grub loader, i'd recommend replacing the root=/dev/blabla to root=UUID="..."
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04:30<Ascavasaion>ghantoos: No idea how to do that.
04:30<ghantoos>Ascavasaion: you can get your UUID like this: sudo blkid
04:30<ghantoos>Ascavasaion: can you paste the output of it?
04:31<jm_>Ascavasaion: check your grub config file
04:31<jm_>Ascavasaion: i.e. root (hd0,10)
04:31<jm_>doesn't look right
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04:34<ghantoos>Ascavasaion: /dev/sda2 is your root partition?
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04:37<ghantoos>Ascavasaion: try boot using this menu.lst
04:38<ghantoos>Ascavasaion: and as jm_ said, (hd0,10) looks weird. (hd0,1) looks more appropiate
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04:39<Ascavasa1on>I timed out or something.
04:39<ghantoos>Ascavasaion: try boot using this menu.lst
04:39<ghantoos> Ascavasaion: and as jm_ said, (hd0,10) looks weird. (hd0,1) looks more appropiate
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04:39<Ascavasa1on>ghantoos: So, shuold i change it?
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04:47<Ascavasaion>aaargh... me an vi are not friends hehe
04:48<jm_>surely ubuntu live cd has more than vi available
04:48<OdyX>vim certainly
04:48<OdyX>nano :)
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04:49<Ascavasaion>Okay, LEt me reboot and see if this works.
04:49<Ascavasaion>Be right back.
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04:50<Athos_Xu>hi,guys~I created a directory named "temp", and the set-group-id bit was set,the owner and user of the directory is root.then i create a file named "".The gid of "" successfully changed to root rather than the set-group-id bit being clear....why is this happened?
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04:51<ryanc>why might i be unable to set the time on my system?
04:52<jm_>Athos_Xu: that's what the effect of sgid bit has on dirs
04:54<majhool>ryanc: do you get an error?
04:54<ryanc>no error on the console, no error in dmesg
04:54<majhool>how are you trying to set the time?
04:54<Athos_Xu>it would be, if the group or supplement group of process which create the file is one of the directory group.
04:54<ryanc>date --set='01:50'
04:54<ryanc>also ntpdate
04:55<ryanc>neither works
04:55<Athos_Xu>as it's not, the set-group-id bit of directory should be clear
04:56<majhool>ryanc: are you root?
04:56<jm_>ryanc: try using ntpdate-debian
04:56<ryanc>yes, i'm root
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04:57<ryanc>and ntpdate-root doesn't change the time either
04:59<jm_>why do people have a habit of inventing their own commands to run?
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05:01<ryanc>i ment ntpdate-debian
05:01<ryanc>but anyway.
05:01<ryanc>This isn't in a VM.
05:01<ryanc>it's bare hardware
05:01<ryanc>this should work :|
05:01<jm_>edit /etc/default/ntpdate, add -d -u to options, run it again
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05:05<enouf>oh ryanc is over here too ... ugh
05:06<Ascavasaion>Okay, I changed the (hd0,10) to (hd0,1) and it worked... But now I am back where Iw as before the grub died on me... I cnanot install my display driver.
05:07<dpkg>somebody said coffee was the reason the net exists, the drug of choice for a GNU generation,, /usr/share/doc/HOWTO/en-html/mini/Coffee.html, geiseri's favorite beverage, smells better than it tastes
05:07<Athos_Xu>it's possible for the group ID of the new file to be the group ID of the parent directory. Specifically, if the group ID of the new file does not equal either the effective group ID of the process or one of the process's supplementary group IDs and if the process does not have superuser privileges, then the set-group-ID bit is automatically turned off. This prevents a user from creating a set-group-ID file owned by a group that the user doesn't belong to.
05:08<jm_>Ascavasaion: debug update-grub script
05:08<ryanc>hwclock --show fails
05:09<Ascavasaion>Be right back
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05:10<locklace>ryanc: maybe there's a problem with your rtc device
05:10<ryanc>yeah, perhaps
05:11<locklace>what does /sys/class/rtc contain
05:11<locklace>what kernel version is this? what kind of hardware? what kind of bios settings do you have related to time? can you set the time there?
05:11<jm_>ntpdate should work regardles of hwclock failing
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05:11<locklace>jm_: i'm not up to date on the extent to which current linux system time leans on hardware clock
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05:13<Ascavasaion>Okay... computer boots again and I am able to get here using irssi. How do I get X-Windows to start again?
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05:14<locklace>Ascavasaion: "X"
05:14<locklace>kind of minimal desktop though
05:14<jm_>Ascavasaion: how did it start before? if it doesn't start it's because your nvidia driver install is hosed -- check X logfile
05:14<enouf>Ascavasaion: what does the default ; update-alternatives --list x-session-manager
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05:16<Ascavasaion>X gives me an error emssage saying No devces detected.
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05:17<Ascavasaion>When I did the update the driver stopped working./
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05:17<locklace>Ascavasaion: what kind of card do you have? what x video driver do you have installed?
05:18<locklace>Ascavasaion: what does lspci | grep VGA say
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05:18<Ascavasaion>locklace: I have a RIVA TNT2 card and I used to have the NVIDIA driver installed form their website.
05:18<jm_>Ascavasaion: don't do that, use the debian way to install nvidia driver
05:18<jm_>that's why it stopped working
05:19<Ascavasaion>locklace: the lspci says I have the RIVA TNT2 card.
05:19<locklace>do what jm_ said, install the debian nvidia package
05:19<Ascavasaion>jm_: HOw does debian do it?
05:19<locklace>actually remove all your custom-installed junk first
05:19<Ascavasaion>Debian NVIDIA package? So I do a apt-cache NVIDIA and install it all?
05:20<dpkg>To use an NVIDIA graphics card with Debian, see If you've done it before, asking me about <nvidia pre-built> or <nvidia m-a> might work. Installing directly from (ie. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia (
05:20<Ascavasaion>locklace: I have no ide ahow to uinstall the custom stuff. I installed the NVIDIA driver originally ebcause I could not get GLX.
05:20<Ascavasaion>I cannot browse the web now... I am stuck at command line.
05:20<locklace>then you've learned an important lesson: never install something you can't uninstall
05:21<enouf>Ascavasaion: i've made the -legacy debian nvidia way work with 2.6.26 on a riva tnt2 pro card
05:21<Ascavasaion>enouf: Nice, I do not have a clue.
05:21<jm_>Ascavasaion: use links to browse the web
05:21<enouf>i believe (now?) some needed pkgs are only in sid?
05:22<enouf>links2 even
05:22<enouf>it has a -g option for GUI in console ;-)
05:22<OdyX>Ascavasaion: you don't have internet access because you use Network-Manager ?
05:22<jm_>OdyX: no, he's stuck in text mode ;)
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05:23<enouf>Ascavasaion: just use the 'nv' Xorg driver for the time being .. or vesa even
05:23<Ascavasaion>Okay, I am installing links2
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05:23<locklace>don't you already have w3m
05:23<jm_>yeah nv supports riva tnt2
05:23<jm_>best advice
05:24<majhool>Ascavasaion: do you still have the NVIDIA*.run file you used to install the driver?
05:24<locklace>Ascavasaion: aptitude install xserver-xorg-video-nv
05:24<Ascavasaion>majhool: No.
05:24<majhool>that makes things tougher
05:24<ml|>I would use nv also the get into X and install nvidia drive the debian way and the get rid of nv driver, that's what I did and worked for me
05:24<enouf>-video-all? -input-all? .. or the Xorg metapackage?
05:25<Ascavasaion>locklace: It wants to uninstalla whole stack of things.
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05:25<locklace>you probably didn't need them anyway
05:25<Ascavasaion>locklace: Oh.
05:25<enouf>Ascavasaion: try apt-get install --reinstall xorg?
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05:26<enouf>Ascavasaion: try apt-get -s install --reinstall xorg?
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05:26<enouf>Ascavasaion: the -s to see what is going to happen prior (s == simulation)
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05:27<Ascavasaion>Okazy, I installed the -nv and now how do I get into X?
05:27<jm_>try startx
05:27<enouf>did you last time use a DM? i asked for output of .. oh, you might need a specific xorg.conf .. but ...
05:28<Ascavasaion>startx also bombs out.
05:28<Ascavasaion>(EE) No devices detected
05:28<jm_>then edit your xorg.conf - it probably says driver nvidia
05:28<Ascavasaion>Fatal server error
05:29<Ascavasaion>whereic xorg
05:29<locklace>or just move it out of the way for now
05:29<enouf>dpkg: bombs out is <reply> see doesn't work
05:29<dpkg>enouf: okay
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05:31<enouf>Ascavasaion: here's my now xorg.conf with a slightly newer / better card (geforce mx400 .. heh)
05:31<OdyX>!bombs out
05:31<dpkg>Look buddy, "doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message".
05:31<enouf>try it as a template/guide Ascavasaion .. note the Monitor section is entirely set for My LCD ;-)
05:31<Athos_Xu>!bombs out
05:31<dpkg>Look buddy, "doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message".
05:31<OdyX>Ascavasaion: just remove it…
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05:31<Asca>Thank yuo so so much!!!!
05:32<enouf>ok .... the bot works ;-)
05:32<locklace>enouf: any problems with that card melting your mainboard? :)
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05:32<Asca>I changed the "nvidia" to "nv" And it booted.
05:32<enouf>locklace: nope - only runs in 2x AGP mode due to 440BX limitations ;-)
05:32<locklace>ah, so that's the secret
05:33<Asca>Okay, now I would like to install the nvidia driver the Debian way :)
05:34<dpkg>To use an NVIDIA graphics card with Debian, see If you've done it before, asking me about <nvidia pre-built> or <nvidia m-a> might work. Installing directly from (ie. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia (
05:34<Asca>ml|: Thank you
05:34<ml|>np :)
05:34<enouf>also - clean out any old crap and make sure you have linux-headers-`uname -r` installed ... though m-a should/will pull them in ...
05:35<enouf>you'll need some know how, to grab the 2 apropos -legacy- pkgs ..
05:36<ml|>I wonder why peeps use the nvidia,com drivers?
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05:36<Asca>enouf: How do I clean them out?
05:37<ml|>maybe for unspupported card is all I can think of
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05:37<ml|>Asca: undo what you when you installed them
05:37<OdyX>ml|: well... "the Debian way" are drivers too...
05:38<Asca>ml|: I type sh
05:39<ml|>OdyX: yes, guess I meant the debain way and not the nvidia way
05:39<enouf> hrmm
05:39<ml|>Asca: dunno never used it
05:39<themill>ml|: because typing "sh" is a lot easier for people to do, up until things break.
05:39<enouf>IIRC, the 96xx are too recent for that tnt2 card
05:39<ml|>themill: oh, I see
05:40<ml|>but the debian way is not much harder tho, atleast not here
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05:42<dpkg>hello, dominique
05:43<ml|>and they break by using new kernel etc...?
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05:48<frunsk>is there any news on the release of the package "evolution-mapi"?
05:49<Benkinooby>hello! does any body know how to create a user without a password?
05:50<Benkinooby>i tried
05:50<Benkinooby>sudo useradd blankuser
05:50<Benkinooby>sudo passwd -d blankuser
05:50<Benkinooby>but it didn't work, it's still having a password :(
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05:51<Asca>sudo m-a auto-install nvidia-kernel$-2.6.18-5-k7-source
05:51<Asca>nvidia-kernelhimBH2.6.18-5-k7-source, what is nvidia-kernelhimBH2.6.18-5-k7-source?
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05:52<Asca>Ignore that last line... I awas silly.
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05:53<enouf>Asca: you're using etch?
05:54<enouf>and you have an athlon xp cpu?
05:54<Asca>enouf: Yes... It is busy downloading 24Mb of stuff.
05:54<Asca>enouf: I think I might be up to lenny... not sure.
05:54<enouf>oh .. well.. you better know (find out) :-)
05:54<Asca>enouf: Correct.
05:55<Asca>enouf:HOw does one get the distribution name?
05:55<EmleyMoor>Anyone managed to get BBC iPlayer download to work on lenny/amd64? I can stream but only if I have not installed Adobe AIR, which download needs. If AIR is installed, neither works as they are whited out.
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05:56<dpkg>rumour has it, distribution is a collection of goodies built around a kernel like Linux
05:57<dpkg>Kernel: uname -r. Debian: cat /etc/debian_version. and: dpkg -l libc6 | tail -n 1. Package: dpkg -l _pkgname_. Miscellaneous: try --version on the command. check /etc/apt/sources.list; run apt-cache policy <packagename>, or lsb_release -a, or cat /proc/version. Do cat /etc/{*version*,*release*,*issue*} which should grab almost all distros
05:57<locklace>Asca: cat /etc/debian_version
05:57-!-Holborn [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
05:57<enouf>see what dpkg said
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06:00<Asca>Not is downloading another 8Mb of stuff.
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06:02<Asca>Okay, i am running lenny :)
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06:04<locklace>is there a way with aptitude to see which repo a package comes from, and to see all the packages installed from a particular repo?
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06:04<locklace>trying to figure out how to keep track of debian-mm packages
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06:05<jm_>!which repo
06:05<dpkg>To see what repository a package may have come from, try , or use dpkg -l | awk '/^.i/ {print $2}' | xargs apt-cache policy | awk '/^[a-z0-9\-]+:/ {pkg=$1}; /\*\*\*/ {OFS="\t"; ver=$2; getline; print pkg,ver,$2,$3}', or ask me about <obsolete>, or
06:05<Benkinooby>is there a possible way to have a user without password (right now i have a workaround with automatic logon)
06:06<locklace>heh, awk
06:06<jm_>Benkinooby: yes
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06:07<Benkinooby>jm_: how? i tired passwd -d username
06:07<Benkinooby>jm_: there was still a password. i was not able to log on without password :(
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06:08<jm_>Benkinooby: what does that leave for password in shadow file?
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06:08<Benkinooby>jm_: how can i check?
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06:09<jm_>Benkinooby: grep username /etc/shadow
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06:10<jm_>os it is empty password
06:11<Benkinooby>jim_: username::14370:0:99999:7:::
06:11<Benkinooby>jm_: username::14370:0:99999:7:::
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06:11<jm_>Benkinooby: and in passwd file it's "x" right? that's what is wrong
06:12<Benkinooby>jm_: how do i check the passwd file?
06:12<enouf>getent passwd username?
06:12<Benkinooby>jm_: yes
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06:12<Benkinooby>it is
06:13<Benkinooby>jm_: grep x /etc/passwd
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06:14<jm_>Benkinooby: blank that and try again
06:14<Benkinooby>jm_: only the x of this line, huh?
06:14<jm_>Benkinooby: yup
06:14<locklace>judd versions mplayer
06:14<judd>locklace: mplayer -- etch: 1.0~rc1-12etch5 etch-security: 1.0~rc1-12etch7 lenny: 1.0~rc2-17+lenny3 sid: 1.0~rc3+svn20090405-1 squeeze: 1.0~rc3+svn20090405-1 etch-multimedia: 1:1.0-rc1svn20070225-0.3etch1 lenny-multimedia: 1:1.0.rc2svn20080706-0.1 sid-multimedia: 1:1.0.rc2svn20090412-0.0
06:14<jm_>Benkinooby: make sure you have backup ready
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06:16<enouf>locklace: i see your dmm request .. i use something like; ~$ grep-status -F Maintainer '' -a -F Status -sPackage 'install ok installed' for myself
06:16<enouf>locklace: to use that, you;ll need to install dctrl-tools (is it?) and grep-dctrl pkgs
06:17<locklace>enouf: thanks. the "apt-listrepository" tool seems to work nicely too
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06:17<enouf>locklace: you could even modify -sPackage to -sPackage,Version
06:17<Benkinooby>jm_: username::1001:1001::/home/username:/bin/bash
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06:18<Asca>Sheesh, everythign i touch on this computer is a stuff up.
06:18<jm_>Asca: return it to the shop and get an imac!
06:18<Asca>jm_: HAHAHA!!!
06:18<Asca>jm_: Think I should go back to windows. Not1
06:18<enouf>oh wow - add Depends to that as well :-PO
06:19<Asca>HOw do I configure X Windows... a way to creat a xorg.conf file?
06:19<enouf>Asca: here's one :-P
06:19<jm_>Asca: you don't need xorg.cong anymore, you can write it manually
06:19<enouf>X-configure would give you a very minimal one
06:19<jm_>!x windows
06:19<Benkinooby>jm_: doesn't work
06:20<enouf>"X -configure" would give you a very minimal one
06:20<jm_>Benkinooby: it does - check your logs
06:20<enouf>!bombs out
06:20<dpkg>Look buddy, "doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?".
06:20<jm_>auth.log would probably be it
06:21<Asca>enouf: It is blank.
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06:24*enouf needs to run afk for a bit ...
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06:27<Benkinooby>jm_: auth.log says gdm[2561]: (pam_unix) authentication failure; logname= uid=0 euid=0 tty=:0 ruser= rhost= user=username
06:28<jm_>Benkinooby: right, edit relevant pam config file for gdm and look for nullok, what does the line look like?
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06:29<Benkinooby>jm_: ??? where can i get that file?
06:29<jm_>Benkinooby: probably /etc/pam.d/gdm
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06:30<xemacs4321>I have qemu, how do i setup vnc connection ?
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06:30<Benkinooby>jm_: grep nullok gdm gives me nothing. i'm in /etc/pam.d/
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06:31<Benkinooby>jm_: opened it with editor
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06:32<jm_>Benkinooby: look for auth lines
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06:33<jm_>we only have 12 minutes to solve this
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06:34<Benkinooby>jm_: got three of them. 1) auth requisite 2)auth required readenv=1 3)auth required readenv=1 envfile=/etc/
06:34<Benkinooby>jm_: ok
06:34<jm_>Benkinooby: does it include common-auth?
06:34<Benkinooby>jm_: @include common-auth
06:35<Benkinooby>jm_: @include common-account
06:35<jm_>Benkinooby: ok then edit that file
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06:35<Benkinooby>jm_: i'm ready
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06:35<jm_>Benkinooby: it has nullok right?
06:36<Benkinooby>jm_: there is nothing written like that
06:36<jm_>Benkinooby: paste the contents of common-auth on pastebin
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06:38<Benkinooby>jm_: no need. everything is commented, except for one line: auth required nullok_secure
06:38<jm_>Benkinooby: change nullok_secure to nullok -- I hope you realize what you just did with this
06:38<locklace>xemacs4321: run it with "-vnc :5"
06:38<Benkinooby>jm_: now i'm allowed to have empty passwords, i guess
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06:39<jm_>Benkinooby: you could have it with nullok-secure too, but you need to edit securetty file, that's a much better option (yes, and for any service using common-auth)
06:40<Benkinooby>jm_: now it's auth required nullok
06:40<Benkinooby>jm_: passwd -d username
06:40<jm_>Benkinooby: yes, also spend some time thinking if this is really what you want
06:41<Benkinooby>to be sure ;)
06:42<xemacs4321>looklace how do i connect to vnc ?
06:42<xemacs4321>from client
06:43<dr|z3d>xemacs4321: make sure you suffix the session number to the ip. eg
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06:45<Benkinooby>jm_: 1000 thanks, worked now!
06:45<jm_>Benkinooby: np, just remember this is very insecure
06:45<Benkinooby>jm_: i guess it will influence a lot of things in my system....
06:46<Benkinooby>jm_: not only logon.
06:46<Txt_file>how can I get how much ram a running programm use? top with its % is to vague.
06:46<nuscire>Hi! Can I use the non-greedy matching of regular expressions in, say, sed? Thanks in advance.
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06:46<Benkinooby>i know it's insecure, but now i know more. i'll turn it back again, just wanted to know. (copy content of irc)
06:47<jm_>Benkinooby: not really, but anyone can login without a password now
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06:47<Benkinooby>jm_: thank you very much again!
06:47-!-bzed_ is now known as bzed
06:47<jm_>Benkinooby: no worries
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06:47<jm_>nuscire: there's no such thing in POSIX regex, try to modify your regex a bit
06:47<ml|>was wondering if using sudo to reboot with no password is insecure?
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06:49<nuscire>jm_: You mean in POSIX regex there's no? I hear about it in Perl.
06:49<jm_>nuscire: yes
06:50<greeq>hey i installed songbird. used it one time but when i closed it. cant find it anywhere. no shortcuts nothing
06:50<greeq>what do i do?
06:50<nuscire>jm_: So generally I have to use some trick to achive non-greedy match? well, Thank you.
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06:52<ml|>greeq: start ir in a term
06:52<greeq>its not there in the terminal also
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06:53<greeq>no shortcuts nothing
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06:53<greeq>not even listed in "open with" for mp3
06:53<jm_>package contents will show where the binary is
06:53<ml|>how did you start it before?
06:54<greeq>untarred it and there was a shell file in it
06:54<greeq>ran that in terminal
06:54<jm_>ahh not a debian package then
06:55<ml|>why not debian package is there is one
06:55<greeq>where is it?
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06:55<jm_>not packaged it seems
06:55<greeq>i just found tar
06:55<greeq>on its website
06:56<jm_>go to the dir you untarred it in and look for stuff
06:56<ml|>and mv to /usr/local/bin/
06:56<ml|>or cp
06:57<greeq>should i copy the whole directory "songbird" to /bin/?
06:57<ml|>then create shortcuts
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06:59<ml|>to /usr/local/bin/ not sure if you need the whole dir
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06:59<ml|>try with just binary/executable
07:00<Ascavasaion>Okay, I tried but it still does not work.
07:00<greeq>i think i have to run it with "songbird" shelllscript everytime. but there is one png file which i think is for icons
07:00<greeq>i'll just do a paste there are some errors
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07:02<ml|>Ascavasaion: what doesn't work?
07:02<Ascavasaion>ml|: the nvidia driver does not open X-Windows... only the standard nv
07:02<greeq>TypeError: Components.classes[';1'] is undefined
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07:02<greeq>and in the terminal errors for gstreamer
07:03<greeq>warning actually
07:03<Txt_file>Ascavasaion: can you pastebin the output of Xorg
07:03<greeq>failed to load plugin but still songbird works
07:03<Ascavasaion>Txt_file: Where do I find that?
07:04<Txt_file>at /var/log/Xorg.log ... or something like that
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07:05<Ascavasaion>Txt_file: Okay, let me change it back to nvidia, and restart X, then change back to nv so I can get here, and paste it here. brb
07:05<greeq>there is not one software in linux which works in one shot. everything has problems. how is it better than windows?
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07:06<Ascavasaion>greeq: It is free :)
07:06-!-Ascavasaion [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:06<greeq>so is windows who buys it
07:06<ml|>Ascavasaion: why use nvidia-xconfig to setup xorg file
07:06<Txt_file>greeq: what are your problems with linux ... it just works
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07:08<Ascavasaion>Okay... let me find that file now.
07:09<ml|>Ascavasaion: needs to run as root
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07:09<Ascavasaion>ml|: Need to run what as root?
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07:10<ml|>nvidia-settings nvidia-xconfig
07:10<ml|>install both
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07:12<ml|>Ascavasaion: after you run nvidia-xconfig, maybe reboot, if you want, then run nvidia-settings as root and select the settings appropriate for the monitor and Save to X Configuration File
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07:14<lux>ciao a tutti
07:14<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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07:15<ml|>Ascavasaion: sry forgot a step ... after reboot, startx as normal user then run nvidia-settings as root and select the settings appropriate for the monitor and Save to X Configuration File
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07:20<Ascavasaion>Thank you ml| ... rebooting now.
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07:26<ml|>was wondering if using sudo to reboot with no password is insecure?
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07:26<xemacs4321>locklace, dr|z3d I got it now thankyou !
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07:29<Ascavasaion>Still does not work... sheesh.
07:29<ml|>Ascavasaion: did you run nvidia-settings?
07:30<enouf>Ascavasaion: do you get the nvidia graphic splash upon boot? before X
07:30<Ascavasaion>ml|: I cannot even get into X-Windows. I have to revert to nv each time to get back into X-Windows. nvidia does not work.
07:30<Ascavasaion>enouf: No... It never works.
07:30<gsimmons>Ascavasaion: See the warnings issued by the nvidia xorg driver in your last paste. Your installed driver version doesn't support the TNT2 GPU.
07:30<enouf>which kernel?
07:30<ml|>hmm did you follow thw wiki correctly?
07:31<enouf>which version? 7xxx does
07:31<enouf>oh .. the xorg nv?
07:31<Ascavasaion>enouf: I have to keep reverting back to the standard nv driver to get back into X
07:31<Ascavasaion>enouf: the k7 and the 686 one.
07:31<Ascavasaion>gsimmons: I know... but that makes no sense.
07:31<enouf>Ascavasaion: oh yeah .,. Etch? 2.6.18?
07:31<Ascavasaion>gsimmons: Not to me though.
07:32<Ascavasaion>I give up... Linux is not for me.
07:32<Ascavasaion>I have been battling for weeks now.
07:32<ghantoos>don't give up! you're that close to freedom!
07:33<Ascavasaion>I follow all the advice given here, I follow the instructions online to a T and I am exactly where Iw as when I started.
07:33<Ascavasaion>I am logging off now. Thank you all for at elast trying to help me.
07:33<enouf>nah .. wrong kernels :-P use a 2.6.26 and Lenny :-)
07:33<Ascavasaion>enouf: Lenny
07:33<Ascavasaion>ghantoos: I tried that
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07:34<ghantoos>Ascavasaion: can you paste /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
07:34<dpkg>A satisfied customer? We should have him stuffed!
07:34<ghantoos>he's gone :/
07:34<ml|>he was close
07:37<Txt_file>only the wrong driver was installed ... I think windoze would also have a problem with that ...
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07:40<locklace>any way to get djview4 to swap foreground and background color
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07:41<locklace>no option in settings or cli afaict
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07:55<locklace>sigh. looks like there's only djvu viewer for linux.
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07:58<locklace>er, only one
07:58<themill>locklace: kviewshell in lenny can view djvu too.
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07:59<locklace>not linked against djvulibre?
07:59<themill>locklace: "debtags search works-with-format::djvu" might be of interest.
07:59<themill>no idea
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08:00<locklace>of course, i'm going to install kde libs just for a djvu viewer ;)
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08:00<themill>if you were already using kde, you'd already have them installed...
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08:01<leoplanet>hey guys my first time on IRC using bash... I am new to Linux but liking it very very very much. Feel like a kid lost in a toy shop ;)
08:01<locklace>but i'm not, so i don't, and i don't want them. :)
08:02<locklace>debtags looks handy though
08:02<themill>locklace: your loss... I have a really nice djvu viewer that you seem to want though...
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08:02<locklace>leoplanet: "IRC using bash" ... i knew bash was bloated, but it's getting out of hand now
08:02<locklace>themill: hehe. just out of curiosity does it do inverse video?
08:03<themill>locklace: yes
08:04<locklace>ok, at least one thing exists that does it
08:04<themill>locklace: invert, change paper colour, change dark/light, convert to B&W on threshold/contrast.
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08:05<locklace>themill: pretty happy with kde then?
08:06<themill>Very. Well integrated, stable, well featured, configurable, ...
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08:06<locklace>i did use it once a long time ago, like when it first appeared. i still remember building everything from scratch
08:06<enouf>themill: 3.5.x or 4.x?
08:07<themill>3.5 from lenny
08:07<enouf>ugh .. riddled with bugs and bloated beyond belief :-)
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08:07<enouf>i don't know enough about 4.x, but nothing ever sheds bloat in newer revisions :-)
08:08<marga>Hi! Last week we had a problem with our NFS server, the hard-drives were giving us way too many interrupts. We changed them for new harddrives, and now the eth0 is giving way too many interrupts. This is an Etch server, in which we didn't change anything else apart from the drives. How can we find out what's going on?
08:08<themill>"rewrite from scratch"...
08:08<locklace>enouf: my biggest pet peeves in that regard, outside of X, are bash and vim as sh and vi by default
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08:09<locklace>marga: have you run powertop yet
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08:09<enouf>too many interrupts?
08:09<locklace>marga: it's only vaguely related but is a simple quick way to look at wakeups
08:09<enouf>== too many interruptions?
08:10<themill>locklace: send patches so that #!/bin/sh scripts don't use bashisms so that dash can be successfully switched over.
08:10<enouf>ugh! nooooooooo
08:10<locklace>themill: yeah, people who use bashisms in /bin/sh scripts should be drawn and quartered and then given a stern talking-to
08:10<marga>enouf: are you asking how many is too many?
08:10<enouf>please .. no .. please ... it's bad enough we've done away with alsaconf (like ubuntu has so long ago)
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08:11<enouf>marga: no .. do you mean hardware interrupts? software ones? or .. general interruptions?
08:11<marga>locklace: I already know it's the eth0 that's giving too many interrupts, powertop will tell me something more than this?
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08:11<marga>enouf: oh, I don't know, I mean the type of interrupts that turn up in /proc/interrupts
08:12<locklace>marga: probably not, but what kind of help are you expecting? if you're getting a lot of network interrupts, you're getting a lot of network interrupts. c'est la vie.
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08:12<petern>what is "too many"?
08:12<marga>locklace: yeah, but it wasn't happening before. I just don't know how to fix it.
08:13<themill>enouf: It's not proposed to change the login shell to dash, just /bin/sh. It has a huge impact on the setup and teardown time of scripts, particularly init scripts.
08:13<petern>is some error occurring?
08:13<petern>or do you just like low numbers?
08:13<locklace>marga: so you're saying you're getting a lot more network interrupts after changing your hard drives?
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08:13<marga>petern: 23k/s
08:14<enouf>themill: i recall using dash for init scripts/bootup speed boosts, but even then, i don't like it ;-)
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08:14<marga>locklace: yes. And just before changing them, I was getting a lot of hard-drive interrupts, like 15k/s
08:14<locklace>themill: hehe, a "checkbashisms" tool. yay
08:14<themill>enouf: you're the one normally complaining about bloat...
08:14<themill>locklace: yeah, mostly works ok
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08:14<enouf>themill: speeding up boot speed doesn't apply ;-)
08:15<locklace>enouf: it's not just boot speed, it's bloody everything
08:15<marga>petern: many process get into "waiting" state and the load goes up. I'm not noticing a real slow down as when the hard-drives were giving the crazy interrupts, but it might be a question of time.
08:16<enouf>especially if it'll mess with the way editing init.d/ scripts and such .. bah .. i'm just getting used to bash .. leave me alone :-p
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08:16<locklace>marga: nothing changed at all in your nfs configuration? what kernel version is this? what nfs version/options/config? what kind of traffic profile?
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08:16<locklace>marga: and what kind of network card
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08:16<marga>locklace: nothing changed at all. I'll give you the specs, one mom
08:16<locklace>enouf: if you want to get used to something, get used to zsh
08:17<enouf>or do you mean the it'll only affect the very few initrd/ scripts that have and require #!/bin/sh ?
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08:17<enouf>i tried that with ... /me no likey
08:17<locklace>enouf: and what does making sh -> dash instead of sh -> bash have to do with init.d scripts?
08:17<enouf>ask themill :-)
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08:18<enouf>i think it's much faster at processing the scripts or something
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08:19<locklace>it's much faster if it isn't bash, yes
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08:19<locklace>i just didn't understand your comment about "... mess with the way editing init.d/ scripts"
08:19<marga>locklace: kernel: 2.6.24-etchnhalf.1-686, NFSv3 using TCP, I'm not sure what you mean about traffic profile, it's the file server for about 200 users, apart from NFS it also serves some samba resources, web pages and has a postgres database.
08:19<marga>locklace: Ethernet controller: 3Com Corporation 3c940 10/100/1000Base-T [Marvell]
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08:21<locklace>marga: ok. what did the drive change involve, e.g. what's the difference between old/new drives and controllers?
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08:21<locklace>marga: do you have before and after data showing average interrupts/time-interval?
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08:22<marga>locklace: only the drives. We had 320GB Western Digital, we now have 1TB Hitachi. The controller is: nVidia Corporation MCP51 Serial ATA Controller. We are using software RAID 1.
08:23<marga>locklace: I do have that information, but only in a munin graph.
08:23<locklace>marga: well just ballpark, what's the percentage increase?
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08:25<marga>Maybe 2000%, it's kind of hard to know, practically no eth0 interrupts show in the graph before the drive change.
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08:26<themill>enouf: init scripts (well, all scripts, really) should either use #!/bin/bash if they use features that are only in bash and not other sh implementations and use #!/bin/sh otherwise. That way, you can get much faster script execution on the scripts that only need dash rather than having to use bash on them because some people wrote dodgy scripts. It's like assuming that /usr/bin/editor is vim when it isn't necessarily.
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08:27<locklace>marga: hmm. having a hard time seeing how changing your drive could impact network interrupts to that extent. only thing i can think of is if it has different block access or cache capabilities that result in turning what used to be one access into several
08:27<Dominique>hi! I downloaded a .tar.bz2 file. how do i build and install it?
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08:27<locklace>Dominique: it's a tar file. you don't "build and install" it.
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08:28<Dominique>well, its a source
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08:28<marga>Dominique: of what?
08:28<locklace>Dominique: tar atvf <filename> to see what's in it, tar axvf to extract it
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08:28<Dominique>i did a tar jxvf <filename>
08:29<Dominique>i extracted it in a folder. now what?
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08:29<themill>Dominique: look for a README or an INSTALL
08:29<marga>locklace: ok, it sounds possible, although I can't think of what to do to find out or how to fix it...
08:29<Dominique>well, that's what is missing there.
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08:29<locklace>themill: i hope there's also some heavy-handed style guideline about not using #!/bin/bash in system scripts :)
08:30<marga>Dominique: maybe in the webpage where you download it from?
08:30<Dominique>i downloaded it from sourceforge.
08:30<locklace>marga: it's sort of a long shot but i can't think of any other explanation that's even remotely plausible. also, i'm not convinced it's really even a problem, although i agree that it's odd.
08:30<Dominique>BTW. i browsed through the files and found a and
08:30<Dominique>can i do anything with it?
08:31<themill>locklace: not that I know of. There are a few that do, but generally, most people choose to remove the bashism rather than change the script to bash.
08:31<locklace>Dominique: "./configure", "make". even better, read any README* or INSTALL* files in there first.
08:31<enouf>themill: righto - well, AFAIR, there weren't too many scripts on my system .. but point taken, i'd just have to hate learning dash-isms and also try to recall which isms belong to which shell
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08:31<marga>Well, it's particularly odd that one day the hard-drive interrupts shot up like crazy, then we change the hard-drives and the eth0 interrupts shot up like crazy. Maybe we should just change the card, but it wouldn't really make much sense.
08:32<Dominique>can't find any such file or any help in the downloaded files.
08:32<locklace>themill: i guess since bash will still be the default user shell it's still guaranteed (?) to be around. i was thinking of the case where someone wants to remove bash altogether
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08:32<marga>Dominique: is there a configure without the .ac in it?
08:32<enouf>use ubuntu, they have locklace :-P
08:32<themill>enouf: there are very few bash features that fall into that category. I don't believe there's any move to change the default shell or to remove bash from being an essential package.
08:33<enouf>IINM ...or atleast replaced dash where bash was
08:33<jm_>how about the eglibc thing?
08:33<locklace>marga: my first steps would be (a) see whether anything in the traffic profile has changed; (b) experiment with different nfs versions and options, e.g. nfs4; (c) test out newer kernel version and compare the numbers
08:33<marga>Dominique: then you need to have autotools installed, and run autoconf... It'd really be good if you could find out some specific help from the software proper.
08:33<Dominique>there are two more files in the same dir... "autogen" and ""
08:34<Dominique>i've looked for the help...
08:34<Dominique>xchat is my last resort.
08:34<marga>locklace: ok... Well, thanks, I guess we'll do something like that.
08:34<marga>Dominique: ok, run, then.
08:34<gsimmons>Dominique: You can alternatively install the third-party Debian packages of MediaInfo, also available from upstream's website.
08:35<locklace>marga: next after that would probably be trying a new network card. you should also double-check link-layer connectivity to the switch and make sure that e.g. you aren't suddenly taking tons of errors
08:36<locklace>marga: or fell back to 100BaseTX/half-duplex or something ;)
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08:37<marga>locklace: no errors show up in ifconfig... How do I check the current speed negotiated for the link?
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08:40<locklace>marga: dmesg|grep eth0 (or whatever your device id is) might help.
08:40<locklace>there's got to be some better command
08:42<marga>locklace: ok, looking for something that correlates with the hard-drives going crazy I found that the "slab cache" usage turned from 700M to 100M on the day they went crazy, and it's kept at small numbers since. That space is currently filled with "cache". Any idea of what this might mean?
08:43<marga>locklace: regarding eth0 link, dmesg only shows: skge eth0: Link is up at 1000 Mbps, full duplex, flow control both, no changes after that, so I guess it's still at 1000Mb/s
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08:48<locklace>marga: that's interesting, i don't suppose you have the cat /proc/slabinfo for before and after?
08:48<marga>locklace: no :(
08:48<locklace>marga: for the network, probably best to check interface stats/errors on the switch
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08:49<locklace>assume you haven't changed any sort of sw configuration that would impact memory management / usage / caching / swap
08:49<locklace>what filesystem is this?
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08:50<matttis>hi, where do I find some kind of boot script, where everything is written what will be started at bootup? Theres no /etc/rc.0/rc.local and in /etc/rc.local is nothing
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08:51<marga>locklace: ext3
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08:51<marga>locklace: and no, we hadn't changed anything in weeks.
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08:52<jm_>matttis: ls -l /etc/rc?.d
08:52<matttis>too much
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08:52<marga>matttis: I'm afraid there is no such thing. Things that will be started at boot up are files in /etc/rc?.d/
08:52<locklace>marga: see anything that stands out on slabtop?
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08:53<johan_>hey, I would like to install the nvidia-glx package, but it seems that it doesn't exist in the default debian repositories, so which repo do I need to add to get this package (and it's dependencies if any)
08:53<jm_>!tell johan_ -about nvidia
08:53<matttis>? is 0, 1, 2 till 6 and S ?
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08:53<marga>locklace: uhm, never used it before. Kind of hard to know what would "stand out". I'll have a look and see if anything looks fishy.
08:53<johan_>yes please do :)
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08:54<marga>matttis: yes. And 2 is the normal runlevel for Debian.
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08:54<matttis>aahhh, now I understand
08:54<jm_>johan_: it already told you
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08:54<johan_>jm_, ah yeah, just saw it, thanks jm
08:54<locklace>marga: when you changed drives, how did you rebuild the filesystems?
08:55<cmot>!tell cmot -about nvidia
08:55<marga>locklace: I'll let maxy answer that, he did that part.
08:55<jm_>!tell cmot -about selftell
08:55<johan_>heh, quite a document...
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08:55<cmot>jm_, ok, ok, ... :-)
08:55<maxy>locklace: mkfs.ext3 in a lenny system
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08:58<maxy>locklace: No, sorry, I built them from the previous system, that was an updated etch then.
08:59<locklace>maxy: what i'm wondering is if you could have ended up with filesystems with different config/tuning parameters from the old ones
08:59<lwi>hi, i have almost no processes running but my RAM usage is over 200M, whats the reason for that (shared memory with graphics card?); here is my scrot:
08:59<matttis>well, doesn't help this way. How do I enable the num-lock at boot up? Somewhere I have to set, that setleds +num is executed...
08:59<locklace>lwi: ram is used for lots of things, in particular for disk caching
09:00<jm_>matttis: you can add it to rc.local
09:00<lwi>locklace: since I have a SDD is it needed? can i turn it off?
09:00<marga>locklace: although I still don't really understand the slabtop output, I notice that the first line is weirdly indented, because of the amount of OBJS (1,215,993). This is size-32 and the SIZE says 43068K. Is this "fishy" or is this normal?
09:00<locklace>lwi: yes it is needed, no you do not want to turn it off
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09:01<marga>matttis: installing numlockx would fix it for x.
09:01<locklace>lwi: look at top to get an idea of how much mem is being used for cache, and do ps lax and sort by the RSS column descending to see what's actually using live memory and how much
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09:01<lwi>locklace: okay i will have a look
09:02<sepski>!free memory
09:02<dpkg>Unlike information, your computer's memory does *not* want to be free. Free RAM is wasted RAM! Linux tries to use free physical memory for caching files from disk which speeds up disk access considerably. Linux releases RAM from these caches if programs need it. If you want to know how much physical memory the free(1) tool says you have left for program use, it's 'free' + 'buffers' + 'cache'. Also ask me about <swapwake>.
09:02<maxy>locklace: I believe the previous filesystems were created from a knoppix LiveCD (wich uses the same mke2fs.conf as etch does)
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09:06<locklace>marga: it seems high to me but i don't have a reference system running comparable services to compare against
09:06<locklace>marga: what's the use% for the size-32 cache
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09:06<marga>locklace: 100%
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09:10<locklace>marga: are you running any kind of kernel service that could result in a high number of smallish objects? something like packet filter with lots of rules could do this
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09:11<locklace>maxy: ok, assume you haven't tuned any fs parameters on either the old or new disks
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09:12<marga>locklace: only NFS as kernel service, I think. No iptables rules, and nothing else comes to mind.
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09:13<FrankQC>yay less people in this one compared to ubuntu
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09:18<locklace>marga: ok, couple of things. first suggest looking at which you might find helpful for monitoring and diagnosing these kinds of issues in more depth
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09:19<locklace>marga: given the available data the next step i'd personally want to take would be seeing how things behave on a current kernel with slab vs. slub allocation
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09:19<locklace>marga: i appreciate this might not be easy to do for a production server, but that is the level this issue is at
09:20<marga>locklace: yeah, I guess that's what we'll do, but I don't like it, cause we didn't change things, so if something is failing, it should either be hardware or something external... We changed the drives because we thought there was a hardware problem with them...
09:21<marga>locklace: well, anyway, we were already thinking of upgrading to lenny, we might do kernel+libc soon, and leave the rest till later.
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09:22<locklace>it's too early to assume anything's failing. check the switch for network errors still. you changed both disks and (necessarily) filesystems, even if you think the fs params are the same. it could be that the new disk tickles inefficiencies in the caching strategy used by that kernel
09:23<locklace>you don't actually have to migrate to a new kernel, just drop a new one in long enough to compare the stats
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09:26<locklace>it would also be interesting to try nfs4
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09:27<maxy>locklace: I don't know about slab vs slub, but what troubles me is that the same hardware with the same kernel version (2.6.24-6~etchnhalf.7 vs 2.6.24-6~etchnhalf.8) changed the interrupts behavior abruptly.
09:28<lwi>locklace: top and ps displayed the same information as htop, free showed me 250M is cached
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09:28<locklace>maxy: it could still be due to something external like link errors or change in network traffic profile, those are the most basic things to rule out
09:28<shardz_>hey guys what can i do about dns' not resolving fast? web browser and otherwish, all servers resolve slooow
09:29<locklace>lwi: ok, that's fine
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09:29<lwi>locklace: a friend of mine got an htop showing only 70M in use, and he has even more cached
09:29<lwi>how is that possible?
09:29<locklace>shardz_: check your /etc/resolv.conf
09:29<locklace>lwi: do you understand what cached means
09:29<maxy>locklace: When everything was fine, the most called interrupt was the one from sata_nv, know the most called interrupt is the one from skge.
09:29<lwi>locklace: yeah
09:30<locklace>lwi: what does it mean in this context
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09:30<shardz_>locklace, its set to my router, theres nothing i can do?
09:30<locklace>maxy: hence my comment
09:30<maxy>locklace: network trafic is "not that much"(tm)
09:30<lwi>locklace: probably its data from hdd cached in ram for faster access later on
09:30<locklace>shardz_: change it to something better. try opendns
09:31<shardz_>sounds interesting
09:31<shardz_>google here i come
09:31<locklace>lwi: yes, it's a good thing, the kernel handles it efficiently and automatically
09:31<lwi>locklace: according to this information the other guy must have turned it off to reach 70M RAM usage, right?
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09:32<locklace>shardz_: the server addresses are and, just put them in your resolv.conf instead of the one that's there now
09:32<maxy>shardz_: Are you running lwresd or nscd with host cache ?
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09:32<locklace>lwi: no
09:33<shardz_>maxy, nah, im not running any servers
09:34<shardz_>locklace, thanks alot, was just reading aboiut it
09:35<lwi>locklace: this is even more confusing, according to his 'free -m' there is content cashed, however his htop shows just 70M mem usage, whats the point?
09:35<locklace>maxy: i'm hoping the collectl will help to give you a better idea of the usage pattern and what is going on
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09:37<locklace>lwi: sorry, i don't know what you're talking about. physical ram usage comprises kernel memory plus user process rss, and the most significant piece of the kernel part by far is disk caching, which is managed automatically and optimally at all times
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09:38<locklace>lwi: different tools will display this breakdown in different formats and call things by different names, but that is the essence of what is going on
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09:38<stuckey>Would anyone tell me how I can use schroot to set up a "schroot" to that I can play a 32Bit game (doom3) on 64bit lenny?
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09:39<junix>what file do i edit to put something into everyone's .profile to start when they login?
09:39<junix>is it /etc/skel ?
09:39<petemc>that will only work for newly added users
09:39<junix>petemc: i know
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09:39<petemc>junix: so why ask?
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09:39<Lara>só falo portugues
09:40<junix>petemc: because i want to do it going forward...
09:40<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
09:40<junix>can ya help?
09:40<petemc>heres a tip, dont bother asking questions you already know the answer to, its a waste of time
09:41<Lara>é a primeira vez que estou usando e não sei muito bem como fazer
09:41<junix>you could also not be an ass about it
09:41<locklace>!tell Lara about pt
09:42<lwi>locklace: yeah, so the RAM usage i cannot identidy is disk caching, so far so good. so the only way to get a lower ram usage would be turning the caching off since there is no other process using so much memory. additionally i thought free would tell me the amount of cache memory, but since his top does not display a 150M+ unknown difference in mem usage, there must be another process using lots of memory that is not caching.
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09:42<locklace>junix: yes, /etc/adduser.conf has the details. one senseless thing is the difference between adduser and useradd, be careful there
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09:43<locklace>lwi: listen to me, i'm only going to say this once more: THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH RAM USED FOR CACHING. if some process needs that memory, it will be released from cache and made available automatically
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09:44<lwi>unfortunately you did not get the point, however ty.
09:45<locklace>lwi: for processes, do the "ps lax" and look at the RSS column
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09:47<maxy>lwi: The point is, you don't want to lower ram usage, ram usage is your best choice compared to disk access.
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09:48<maxy>lwi: Linux always fill the whole memory with caching information, that a great thing.
09:49<locklace>lwi: try this, "ps -axo rss,cmd | sort -nr | less"
09:50<_johan>Anybody knows how to get wireless working on EEE-PC 1000h? I have tried everything from but it just wont work, it loads the module, but the interface dont shows in iwconfig/ifconfig or anything, and shows no messages in dmesg, lspci, any suggestions?
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09:51<locklace>_johan: sure that's the right module? what does lspci say your card is
09:51<_johan> says 901 and related models (1000, 1000H)
09:52<_johan>lspci shows nothing, just ethernet
09:52<mjt>that's wrong
09:52<locklace>that seems wrong
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09:53<locklace>unless the wireless is not actually a pci device on that platform but usb or something
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09:53<farhaven>hi there
09:53<_johan>Ye, the "wlan lamp" is blue
09:53<_johan>So i guess its activated
09:53<mjt>in lspci there's no code to produce "just ethernet". It will always show either name of the device or identifier.
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09:54<mjt>unless you use some other lspci
09:54<_johan>Ethernet controller: Attansic technology corp. L1 gigabit ethernet adapter
09:54<lothar>Hi, is this the right place to ask questions about sound, midi and rosegarden?
09:54<_johan>lspci says, only network ralated i can find
09:54<locklace>_johan: paste the whole lspci output
09:54<mjt>it should show wireless too
09:54<mjt>if it's not disabled in bios and/or disconnected
09:54<mjt>or else no driver loading will help
09:55<_johan>checking bios, then i paste lspci. only have on ethernet cable here
09:55<lwi>locklace: thx for your cmd, it shows me the real mem usage of my processes; nevertheless is there a way to verify the ram usage difference is really used for caching?
09:55<mjt>ie, it will not work at least till it's shown by lspci
09:55<locklace>lothar: it's the right place if you're having low-level sound problems or debian sound config issues, but for midi/app-specific stuff you'll want to try a channel for those things
09:55<_johan>mjt, locklace, onboard wlan, disabled in bios... lolzzz, lets see what happens now
09:56<maxy>_johan: #rosegarden@freenode might be a best option.
09:56<locklace>lwi: just compare it to the info that "free" returns
09:56<_johan>maxy whats that?
09:56<maxy>_johan: Sorry, wrong nick.
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09:57<farhaven>locklace: actually, that's where the confusion started. we compared the second line of free -m
09:57<farhaven>which is without any buffers or caches
09:57<maxy>lothar: #rosegarden@freenode might be a best option.
09:57<_johan>maxy np
09:57<farhaven>on my system, usage was ~70mb
09:57<farhaven>on lwi's it was ~240
09:57<farhaven>with about the same stuff running
09:57<locklace>farhaven: ok, so that's the "without buffers/cache" number. so what is the value of "adding up all the rss" from the ps command i gave, for both of you?
09:58<mjt>farhaven: try also `cat /proc/meminfo'
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09:58<farhaven>mjt: which lines would i be looking for?
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09:58<lothar>Ok, I am using Hydrogen which is configured to use Jack for the audio driver and portmidi for the midi settings. Also I use rosegarden to play a song. While starting rosegarden playing a song, I hear hydrogen playing the drums (Jacktrans is activated). But I did not hear the song from rosegarden. Is that now a rosegarden settings problem?
09:58<mjt>farhaven: it's the file where free looks for the info
09:59<mjt>farhaven: it depends on what you ant to know
09:59<farhaven>locklace: mind pasting it again?
09:59<locklace>lothar: check rosegarden mixer config and outputs, and sound driver config
09:59<farhaven>mjt: the real used memory
09:59<farhaven>without any buffers or caches
09:59<locklace>farhaven: "ps -axo rss,cmd | sort -nr | less"
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10:02<locklace>farhaven: here's some bad code to do the sum, ps axo rss | perl -e 'while(<>){$n+=$_}print "$n\n";'
10:03<farhaven>thx again
10:03<farhaven>that sum is 184900
10:03<farhaven>currently used ram reported by free -m being 101 without buffers and cache
10:04<locklace>actually how does rss handle shared pages? i forget
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10:05<locklace>there's also about 15-30k of data structure overhead for every process that rss does not include
10:06<farhaven>hmm, those values are quite similar
10:06<farhaven>but where does the great difference in the output of free -m, top and htop come from?
10:06<locklace>farhaven: the difference between the 101 and 184 may be due to page sharing
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10:07<farhaven>well, thanks for clearing that up :)
10:07<locklace>i.e. there are some pages that only exist once but are shared between several processes
10:07<locklace>read-only parts of shared libs are the prime example
10:07<locklace>copy-on-write, etc.
10:08<farhaven>but would that also be the case if we were running similar configurations for a similar time?
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10:08<farhaven>i mean, he uses zsh and i use bash + a few daemons more or less
10:08<locklace>not necessarily, what looks "similar" to you may not translate into "similar" when it comes to things like page-sharing
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10:09<locklace>other issues like 32 vs 64 bit, platform cache sizes and limits, kernel adaption to those
10:10<lwi>so simply another kernelversion saves up 150M due to better page sharing?
10:10<locklace>in sum, "comparing memory usage across different systems is not easy"
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10:11<farhaven>yeah, that could be true
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10:11<farhaven>his system is 64bit, mine is 32
10:11<locklace>lwi: kernel vm changes can affect that, sure, but also (and probably more likely) lots of other things like which programs use which libs and how they use them
10:11<lothar>The mixer shows 'signal' on the instrument 1and 12. The three instruments are Trumpet I and II. No chanel is muted. If I look at AConnectGUI the ALSA Sequencer, I only have a connection from 'System Announce' to 'rosegarden record in' but no more connections.
10:11<locklace>farhaven: 64 bit has obvious additional memory overhead
10:12<locklace>farhaven: different data structures in all kinds of places
10:12<farhaven>but does that really account for more than threefold the memory usage?
10:12<locklace>lothar: i think you're missing a "rosegarden audio out to alsa" connection
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10:13<locklace>farhaven: for god's sake man, we've just been over just some of the large number of factors that can yield memory usage detail differences between different systems! :)
10:14<locklace>farhaven: 64 bit is not the only difference
10:14<lothar>Yes, as I remember. But I don't know why this happens. Some time back I had sound, but very bad and with breaks (seems due to timer resolution).
10:14<farhaven>well, there's not much left
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10:14<beer>when will kde 4.2.3 be in sid?
10:16<lothar>I have tested stopping jackd and while this I get messages from rosegarden and hydrogen about that. So jack should be correct.
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10:17<locklace>lothar: i think you might have more luck in the rosegarden channel since they know how to get its various outputs hooked up
10:18<busted>where can i find bitblee help ?
10:18<gsimmons>busted: #bitlbee on this network.
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10:19<lothar>Thanks and bye.
10:19<busted>is there any1 for support there ?
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10:24<ml|>busted: ask your question and wait for a reply
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10:24<d>I am having an issue with cups where some of the text is being cut off on the top border
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10:24<ml|>!tell busted -about ask
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10:39<Dominique>"environment variable" like in windows?
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10:40<petemc>is that a question?
10:40<Dominique>i've made my own bash script. how do i place it in my path environment variable like in windows?
10:40<petemc>cp it to /usr/local/bin/
10:40<jthomas>ml| I resolved the map issue for that realty website — it was totally an Iceweasel/Firefox thing (although when it worked a week ago at my home, it was working with Iceweasel at that time). I've filed a report
10:40<petemc>or add another dir to your $PATH
10:40<jthomas>ml| Firefox works, Iceweasel does not.
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10:41<ml|>jthomas: ah, thanks for the news
10:41<jthomas>ml| thank you for the assistance
10:42<ml|>jthomas: np, will add my 2 cents to bug report
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10:42<jthomas>grand thanks
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10:44<ed_debian>locklace, do you remember our conversation about running a script at shut down for my onboard Lan?
10:44<pawel>how to execute command if variable has one of values in Bash script?
10:45<shardz_>anyone know if i can turn my laptop into an AP for a nintendo DS?
10:45<ed_debian>shardz_, Are you using debian on said laptop?
10:45<shardz_>yes sir
10:45<Dominique>i'm unable to move my bash script to /usr/local/bin. says "permission Denied"
10:45<ed_debian>shardz_, First off I believe that nintedo DS only works on the wireless B signal not G
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10:46<ed_debian>shardz_, But lets worry about that later, You need to edit the rules in Iptables
10:46<ed_debian>run (as root) iptables -L to see a list of the rules you have right now
10:46<Dominique>i'm unable to move my bash script to /usr/local/bin. says "permission Denied"
10:46<ed_debian>man iptables will also be helpful
10:46<ed_debian>Dominique, you need to be root
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10:47<petemc>pawel: if [ "`echo $FOO`" = "bar" ]; then echo yes; fi
10:47<Dominique>i can't be root. isn't there a private bin folder for my user?
10:47<petemc>Dominique: you would need to copy it as root, and make sure its exectutable
10:47<ed_debian>Dominique, IDK the file system that well
10:47<gravity>Dominique: A lot of people have a ~/bin that they add to their path and drop their scripts in to
10:47-!-les [~lars@s6.math.TU-Berlin.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:48<Dominique>okay. I read that somewhere and created the !/bin. how do i add it to the path?
10:48<pawel>but how to make 'if $foo = root OR admin OR administrator OR superman' ?
10:48<shardz_>looks like my iptables are still default
10:48<Dominique>~/bin sry
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10:48<ed_debian>shardz_, Yeah unless you manually change them that's what they should be
10:48*gravity has to look this up for bash
10:48<Dominique>okay. I read that somewhere and created the ~/bin. how do i add it to the path?
10:49<ed_debian>shardz_, What you are trying to do is "Share you network connection" in windows speak
10:49<shardz_>ad-hoc i guess
10:49<ed_debian>shardz_, in the linux world you're trying to set up network address translation NAT.
10:49<gravity>Dominique: In your ~/.bashrc have the line PATH=/home/yourloginname/bin:$PATH
10:49<gravity>Or put it behind the current path, as petemc said. It doesn't matter much.
10:50<ed_debian>shardz_, This will make your debian system act basically like a router
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10:50<ed_debian>shardz_, You'll need to create a rule and insert it into the table you saw with iptables -L
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10:52<ed_debian>shardz_, I don't know enough about iptables to tell you exactly what command to execute but it needs to be something like this:
10:52<ed_debian>shardz_, sudo iptables -A INPUT -j ACCEPT -somenatflag NAT
10:53<Dominique>oh fuk.. i forgot d $ before PATH. I hope the root can edit my .bashrc
10:53<ed_debian>shardz_, Or something like that. Just google iptables, or use pastebin, and read man iptables
10:53<shardz_>so i dont need any special drivers or anything then?
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10:53<ed_debian>shardz_, Nope iptables is built into the kernel :)
10:53<shardz_>pluss i can war drive with a DS program, that'll make it easier to trouble shoot
10:54<shardz_>er, "scan"
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10:54<ed_debian>shardz_, Yes!
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10:54<ed_debian>shardz_, sorry I need to go now :(
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10:54<ed_debian>I"ll be back on throughout the day I'll look for you!
10:54<shardz_>ed_debian, thanks for pointing me in the right direction, i was thinking it would be crazy tech
10:55<shardz_>k man
10:55<ed_debian>shardz_, no problem
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10:55<Dominique>thanq gravity, petemc ed_debian
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10:57<Bunnyh>I've been struggling with this for a while now. How can passwd be restricted so, that members of group 'users' cannot use it? They get "passwd: Authentication token manipulation error" when they have entered their new password succesfully the second time to passwd. Even changing such users to a non-existent gid will fix the problem, but that's not really a solution
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10:59<Zenfur>Oh my... I didn't practise programming for 2 weeks! time to do it now
11:01<shardz_>hmm, maybe found a gui for iptables
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11:13<Bunnyh>I can't seem to find anything related to groups in /etc/pam.d, shouldn't there be a group based restriction somewhere if just changing the gid to something else than 100 allows to change password again?
11:14<bja>Bunnyh: /etc/group ??
11:15<bja>Bunnyh: usermod ??
11:15<Bunnyh>What about it? The users group is defined there just as any other group. If I change the problematic user to use another group thats listed there, he can change the password. Even if I change him to use a gid that's not listed in /etc/group at all, it works. It only doesn't work if the gid is 100
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11:23<djc>Bunnyh, let me clarify - you are saying that if you have a user whos primary gid is 100, they arent able to change their password, but if it is anything else, they are able to?
11:24<djc>you arent trying to set it that way, it is that way and you dont know why.. ?
11:24<Bunnyh>I actually tried changing the group users' gid from 100 to 1000, and changed some users' primary gid as well to 1000, and they could change their password
11:24<djc>you are running lenny?
11:24<Bunnyh>So the restriction is done on gid basis
11:24<weasel>on a default debian?
11:25<Bunnyh>I'm running the latest unstable version... well, maybe that is the problem :)
11:25<weasel>that is a problem
11:25<weasel>mainly that you are running unstable without knowing how to help yourself
11:25<weasel>there might still be a bug somewhere tho
11:26<djc>just tested on my lenny system and doesnt seem to have the same problem
11:26<Bunnyh>I have known how to help myself with unstable for over 5 years, but can't solve this
11:26-!-les [~lars@s6.math.TU-Berlin.DE] has joined #debian
11:26<djc>With apologies to George Lucas,
11:26<djc>Use the source, Bunnyh
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11:27<weasel>Bunnyh: start by pasting etc/passwd, etc/groups, and what you are actually trying to do that fails
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11:28<valdyn>Bunnyh: why would you make a users primary group a system group anyway? thats fucked up
11:28<Bunnyh>I'm not going to dive the sources, haven't had to do that even with unstable yet. Changing all the users's gid on my small system would be easier, but that's also giving up.
11:28<Bunnyh>What? Their gid is 100, users
11:29<valdyn>Bunnyh: thats a system group
11:29<valdyn>Bunnyh: thats not a group to be primary for a user that can log in
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11:29<valdyn>s/log in/log in physically/
11:30<Bunnyh>Well, what is it for then? I've used it succesfully for that quite long, since no other process / file is using the gid
11:30<valdyn>Bunnyh: dont fucked with system groups, make up your own
11:30<valdyn>Bunnyh: dont fuck with system groups, make up your own
11:30<valdyn>Bunnyh: 100-999 is system groups
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11:31<weasel>valdyn: erm
11:31<Bunnyh>Why would there be an unused group named users, if not to put users into? Well, that's what I'm going to do anyway, if passwd refuses to allow gid 100 to change passwd
11:31<weasel>what exactly is wrong with having users in users?
11:31<valdyn>weasel: nothing
11:31<locklace>valdyn: what?
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11:31<weasel>valdyn: isn't that kinda the point of the group (assuming you don't like usergroups)
11:32<weasel>Bunnyh: anyway, you still didn't post any real info
11:32<valdyn>weasel: something wrong with it being the primary user group
11:32<locklace>valdyn: the "users" group has been the generic unix default user group for pretty much ever
11:32<weasel>valdyn: nothing wrong
11:32<Bunnyh>bunnyh:x:1000:100:Juha Kallio,,,:/home/bunnyh:/bin/zsh
11:32<locklace>valdyn: hence, you know, the name.
11:32<weasel>Bunnyh: and then?
11:32<weasel>Bunnyh: you are making this quite painful.
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11:32<weasel>Bunnyh: post it all to and tell us the link
11:32-!-kie27 [] has joined #debian
11:32<weasel>Bunnyh: we don't like pulling this stuff out of your nose
11:33<valdyn>weasel: passwd[13838]: pam_unix(passwd:chauthtok): new password not acceptable
11:33<Bunnyh>OK, sorry, I'm not used to this
11:33<Bunnyh>I'll make a text file and put it somwhere, I thought my description was clear enough, but I understand it's hard to describe anything on IRC
11:34<weasel>valdyn: under which circumstances do you get this?
11:34<valdyn>weasel: when the users primary group is 100
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11:37<djc>on seeing that log, im wondering if the password isnt secure/random enough
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11:37<valdyn>djc: nah
11:37<djc>perhaps there is a password strength requirement that only applies to gid 100?
11:38<djc>i mean, its not saying 'not allowed to change pass', its sayig 'password not acceptable'
11:38<djc>Try j&dk39Dj7fGF
11:38<djc>or something like that
11:38<weasel>hey, where did you get that one from!
11:38<djc>oops, weasel has to go change his root pass now
11:38<flexy>I am making a backup script. I want it to run at shutdown. How do I get it to run there?
11:39<djc>why would you want to shutdown?
11:39<weasel>flexy: less /etc/init.d/README
11:39<Gathond>why only backup at shutdown
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11:39<djc>no, no, why shutdown
11:39<weasel>because shutdown is when he has time
11:39<flexy>weasel: the backup script takes ages to run. Is it a problem if I do a usual init.d script running the backup?
11:40<weasel>4pm. shutdown computer. leave.
11:40<Gathond>weasel :)
11:40<weasel>flexy: that should work.
11:40<weasel>flexy: find out?
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11:40<djc>why not just leave it on but shut the monitor off.. use cron to run the backup at 5pm..
11:40<weasel>djc: because he fscking wants to.
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11:41<djc>he wants to fsck the partitions too?
11:41<flexy>weasel: so, I just make one and name it so that it will be run after mysql is stopped. I presumed that there is some timeout if one of the shutdown scripts takes longer than defined...
11:41<weasel>flexy: shouldn't, really
11:41<flexy>weasel: OK, I'll have to check that
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11:41<weasel>good luck
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11:41<flexy>thanks :)
11:41<Gathond>well I'm too lazy/impatient to actually shut computer off, suspend is where it is
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11:42<Bunnyh>ok, I made a text file, not sure if it contains anything clarifying
11:43<zumbi>AbsintheSyringe: it does fat, not ext3 yet
11:43<zumbi>sorry wrong chan
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11:43<weasel>Bunnyh: why does one line have an X and the other x?
11:44<Bunnyh>Because I was lazy and didn't copypaste the line that had just ony zero added to it... and made a capital X by accident, it seems
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11:44<Bunnyh>It's x really
11:44<weasel>"I was lazy and didn't copypaste the line"
11:44*weasel shakes his head
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11:45<locklace>it's so hard to get good requests for help these days
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11:45<Bunnyh>It's copypasted there now, if that is a big change
11:46<weasel>(debian-amd64-sid)test@simona:~$ passwd
11:46<weasel>Changing password for test.
11:46<weasel>(current) UNIX password:
11:46<weasel>Enter new UNIX password:
11:46<weasel>Retype new UNIX password:
11:46<weasel>passwd: password updated successfully
11:46<weasel>(debian-amd64-sid)test@simona:~$ id
11:46<weasel>uid=1000(test) gid=100(users) groups=100(users)
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11:46<weasel>works for me[TM]
11:46<valdyn>polkit at work.. maybe
11:46<valdyn>i dont get how though
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11:47<weasel>try it as root, ask your logs, try strace
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11:47<valdyn>weasel: which release did it work on?
11:47<weasel>at least we established that there's nothing inherent about sid that makes such a passwd change impossible
11:47<Bunnyh>trace changes something, as then no user can't seem to change password, even in other groups
11:47<weasel>valdyn: hm?
11:47<valdyn>weasel: sid then
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11:48<weasel>Bunnyh: try as root.
11:48<weasel>(changing password for a user)
11:48<Bunnyh>root can change anyones password just as before
11:48<weasel>and you didn't paste your passwd and your group file as I asked you to
11:49<weasel>locklace: no kidding
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11:50<Bunnyh>I didn't understand you would need the whole files, since those are the relevant parts
11:50<weasel>that's what you think.
11:50<weasel>clearly, if you pasted all the *relevant* parts, the solution would be right there
11:52<weasel>Wed 17:33:06 <valdyn> weasel: passwd[13838]: pam_unix(passwd:chauthtok): new password not acceptable
11:52<weasel>valdyn: where did this line come from?
11:53<Bunnyh>Now it's all there, thought I can't see what anyone would to with those other lines, of which pwck complains nothing about
11:53<valdyn>weasel: passwd
11:53<weasel>valdyn: yours?
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11:53<valdyn>weasel: yes
11:53<Bunnyh>My passwd doesn't say that, it complains about the authentication token, just as it reads in the txt file
11:54<weasel>how do you know that last bit?
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11:55<valdyn>Bunnyh: hmm?
11:55<valdyn>Bunnyh: thats from /var/log/auth.log, im sure you have it too
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11:55<weasel>valdyn: so you have the same?
11:56<valdyn>weasel: i think so
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11:56<Bunnyh>no, nothing goes into logs if the old password is given correctly, and the new one is given correctly twice
11:56<ixp425>did anyone's squeeze update blow up today?
11:56<Bunnyh>valdyn seems to have different error messages..
11:56<valdyn>Bunnyh: nope
11:56<weasel>what does your pam.d/passwd look like?
11:56<locklace>!blow up
11:56*dpkg blows up
11:57<valdyn>weasel: /etc/.pwd.lock means something to you?
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11:57<locklace>ixp425: what packages did you update? define "blow up"
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11:57<Bunnyh>pam.d/passwd includes common-passwd, I'll put that in the end of the text file
11:57<ixp425>locklace: it updated apt which then removed aptitude and much of gnome depends on synaptic->aptitude
11:57<Bunnyh>I can't say I understand it perfecly myself
11:58<ixp425>I just want to know if someone else had the same problem
11:58<weasel>ixp425: you mean it suggested and you let it do.
11:58<weasel>locklace: do you have such a lockfile?
11:58<ixp425>weasel: I don't remember
11:58<Bunnyh>It's now in the text file. The [success=1 default=ignore] part is what confuses me
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11:59<locklace>weasel: sorry, not paying attention to the password discussion ;) you want to know if there's a /etc/.pwd.lock on my system? yes there is
11:59<ml|>ixp425: I ran an apitude safe-upgrade and apt and apt-utils where held back
11:59<weasel>locklace: erm. wrong nick :)
11:59<weasel>valdyn: do you have such a lockfile?
11:59<locklace>ixp425: did reinstalling aptitude fix things?
11:59<Bunnyh>.pwd.lock is created by gid 100 users too on my system
11:59<ixp425>locklace: it won't let me...dependency problems
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12:00<valdyn>weasel: i have a race condition
12:00<valdyn>weasel: i dont know what to paste you
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12:01<valdyn>weasel: i tried a few times in a row, i can make strace make my passwd break, thats weird
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12:01<ixp425>ml|: I guess I didn't do a safe-upgrade
12:01<weasel>valdyn: if you run "strace passwd" as a user then it will not run as root.
12:01<Bunnyh>yes, straces seems to make passwd not work for anyone
12:01<valdyn>weasel: oh
12:01<valdyn>weasel: ok then nm
12:01<weasel>what you have to do is to attach to a running passwd
12:01<weasel>(as root strace -p <pid>)
12:01<ml|>ixp425: you problably did a full upgrade
12:01<valdyn>weasel: well, i probably dont need to anymore
12:02<Bunnyh>Nice, I'll have to try that root strace
12:02<locklace>ml|: did you follow with a full-upgrade or how do you plan to get the apt-* updates at some point?
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12:02<valdyn>weasel: as passwd run as a user with primary gid being 100 also runs not as root or at least gives the same: open("/etc/.pwd.lock", O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_CLOEXEC, 0600) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
12:02<ml|>locklace: usaually aptitude takes care of that when time is right
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12:03<weasel>valdyn: pardon?
12:03<valdyn>weasel: nvm
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12:03<valdyn>weasel: forget it, ill attach myself with strace
12:03<locklace>ml|: ok, so you never do full-upgrade? i'll follow suit ;)
12:04<ml|>I did try to force the update, but wanted to remove something important so I left alone to prevent possible breakage
12:04<ixp425>that doesn't make any logical sense to have packages in a full-upgrade that will break your system
12:04<locklace>if you just run "aptitude" and then "g" so it autoselects the upgradeable packages, and then g to go ahead, is that the same as a safe-upgrade?
12:04<ml|>locklace: right i never do a full-upgrade
12:05<weasel>the blind leading the blind...
12:05<ixp425>is there a way to downgrade a package using apt-get?
12:05<ml|>locklace: I belive so, but I rin in term to be on the safe side
12:05<Bunnyh>hehe, I guess I found the problem
12:05<Bunnyh>open("/etc/nshadow", O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC|O_LARGEFILE, 0666) = -1 EDQUOT (Disk quota exceeded)
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12:05<weasel>good one
12:06<weasel>Bunnyh: now please do show me the last few lines from your /var/log/auth.log.2.gz
12:06<Bunnyh>I guess activating quota on / caused that, since it's 0 by default for everyone
12:06<weasel>(bad tab completion)
12:06<Bunnyh>May 6 19:03:11 psychedelic sshd[7207]: Accepted password for testuser from port 35369 ssh2
12:06<Bunnyh>May 6 19:03:11 psychedelic sshd[7207]: pam_unix(sshd:session): session opened for user testuser by (uid=0)
12:06<weasel>and in the cases where it failed?
12:06<Bunnyh>so, nothing about the failed attempt
12:06<weasel>too bad
12:07<ixp425>ml| is there a way to downgrade a package using apt-get?
12:07<Bunnyh>But thanks for that strace trick, I guess it will come handy later too
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12:07<ml|>!tell ixp425 -about safe-upgrade
12:07<weasel>downgrades are not supported.
12:07<ml|>!tell ixp425 -about full-upgrade
12:07<weasel>they might work, or they might not.
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12:08<ixp425>ml| ok. that works with aptitude but aptitude was removed by the upgrade
12:08<ml|>!tell ixp425 -about -downgrade
12:08<valdyn>weasel: funny, i cant reproduce
12:09<ml|>ixp425: sry i dunno
12:09<weasel>valdyn: reproduce what?
12:09<valdyn>weasel: the error
12:09<weasel>which one?
12:09<ixp425>ml| thanks, though
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12:10<ml|>read msg from dpkg get a better idea about upgrade stuff
12:10<ml|>!tell ixp425 -about downgrade
12:10<valdyn>weasel: pam_unix(passwd:chauthtok): new password not acceptable
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12:11<ml|>ixp425: maybe someone here will help ya
12:11<valdyn>weasel: but i tend to believe its interaction with gnome stuff gkr-pam: changed password for 'login' keyring
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12:12<valdyn>weasel: with passwd throwing the same as for Bunnyh, but entirely unrelated causes
12:13<Bunnyh>I'll have myself to blame for this strange error, since I had added 4 byte quota for "users" group to the root fs...
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12:13<weasel>the diagnostics still sucked
12:13<weasel>Bunnyh: please file an appropriate bug report
12:14<weasel>passwd should really print better error messages
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12:14<valdyn>theres only 5 error codes
12:14<valdyn>i dont know what they want to "guess" with better error messages
12:14<valdyn>looking at man pam_chauthtok
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12:15<valdyn>pam sucks?
12:15<ml|>ixp425: do you have apt?
12:15<Bunnyh>weasel, ok, though it seems I'll have to familiarize myself with the buf reporting guidelines first.. :)
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12:21<Bunnyh>weasel, to clarify, you mean that I should report as a bug that passwd doesn't log any error messages in this one situation?
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12:24<weasel>Bunnyh: or doesn't relay EDQUOT in any useful way
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12:32<Bunnyh>What exactly is passwd doing, writing that /etc/nshadow with the users's gid?
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12:32<Bunnyh>Why isn't it written with root/shadow as owner/gid, just as /etc/shadow ?
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12:36<ixp425>ml|: I do have apt...I think I will just have to find the dependencies and dpkg -i them individually....thanks
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12:38<locklace>ixp425: can you paste the output of "apt-get install aptitude"?
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12:40<locklace>ixp425: fwiw these are the depends for my aptitude (testing as of yesterday): libapt-pkg-libc6.7-6-4.6, libc6 (>= 2.7-1), libcwidget3, libept0 (>= 0.5.26), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libncursesw5 (>= 5.6+20071006-3), libsigc++-2.0-0c2a (>= 2.0.2), libstdc++6 (>= 4.2.1), libxapian15, zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4)
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12:40<ixp425>locklace: thanks for all of those depends..I'll post the output in just a sec
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12:41<sci>!seen hans
12:41<dpkg>hans <> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 11d 33m 46s ago, saying: 'cahoot: it worked. Thanks again for your help! '.
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12:42<locklace>sci: at this point you might want to consider calling missing persons
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12:42<ixp425>this is my output when I tried 'apt-get install aptitude'
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12:42<ixp425>Reading package lists...
12:42<ixp425>Building dependency tree...
12:42<ixp425>Reading state information...
12:42<ixp425>Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
12:42<ixp425>requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
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12:43<locklace>ed_debian: so how'd it go
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12:44<ed_debian>locklace, Ah yes the script was working but apparently in debian 5.0 rc6.d is for reboot and rc0.d is for halt
12:44<penguin>I am having keyboard problems and apparently xkb-data 1.52 is bad
12:44<ed_debian>so I made a shortcut in both folders
12:44<locklace>ed_debian: so it's working ok for you now?
12:44<penguin>HOw do I downgrade the package?
12:44<ed_debian>locklace, Thank you for all of your help. Sorry I had to leave all of the sudden before
12:44<ed_debian>locklace, Yes
12:45<locklace>ed_debian: great
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12:45<locklace>ed_debian: can you please raise a kernel bug against via rhine driver for that issue
12:45<ed_debian>locklace, That's what I said!
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12:45<ed_debian>locklace, Where do I do that?
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12:45<ed_debian>locklace, Is there something similar to ubuntu's launchpad?
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12:46<penguin>What is command to remove a package?
12:46<ed_debian>penguin, sudo apt-get remove
12:46<locklace>ed_debian: (search around first just in case there's already one)
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12:46<ml|>!tell ed_debian -about reportbug
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12:46<penguin>What about aptitude remove?
12:47<ed_debian>penguin, aptitude should work also although I don't know the specific command
12:47<ed_debian>penguin, man aptitude
12:47<ml|>penguin: aptitude purge will remove said pkg and config files
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12:48<locklace>ed_debian: also read this first:
12:48<ed_debian>locklace, Thanks again for your help!
12:48<ml|>penguin: you can also do it wihtin aptitude
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12:49<ml|>!why aptitude
12:49<dpkg>aptitude has more advanced conflict/dependency resolution than other tools, it has far more advanced searching available, and will automatically uninstall unneeded dependencies, read /usr/share/doc/aptitude/README for more info. Aptitude can also remove or purge one package at the same time as installing others all from the command line, making it much easier to recover from broken dependencies.
12:49<locklace>ixp425: paste to a pastebin ;)
12:50<ml|>ixp425: so aptitude is gone and apt can't reinstall it?
12:50<ixp425>locklace: how do I do that?
12:50<ixp425>ml|: yep
12:50<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or or for pics. Use for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Just use pastebinit (package) if you cannot cut & paste.
12:50<penguin>Damn I used apt-get instead of aptitude
12:50<penguin>I hope it works right
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12:51<ml|>penguin: don't mix the two use one or the other
12:51<penguin>Too late
12:51<penguin>Am I screwed?
12:51<ml|>well for future refrence
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12:52<penguin>So same command aptitude remove?
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12:53<ml|>penguin: man aptitude ;)
12:53<locklace>ixp425: well that is not too many depends at least, are you able to install those packages with apt-get?
12:53<ixp425>locklace: lemme see
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12:53<ml|>ixp425: yeah that doesn't look to bad
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12:54<ml|>but apt might do something screwy but who knows
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12:54<dpkg>hello, ml|
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12:56<watt>hey. i just did a fresh install. then i updated, upgraded, and installed xorg. when i ran `startx' my monitor displayed `Out of Sync' as though i had unplugged from the video card. any ideas?
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12:56<locklace>watt: what kind of card do you have and what x video driver are you using
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12:57<ml|>ixp425: fixed?
12:57<ixp425>ml|: not yet...I'm going to work with it a bit later...thanks for your help!
12:57<ml|>ok gl
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12:58<watt>locklace: geforce 7600. i have not installed any driver for it yet.
12:58<ml|>ixp425: what did you use when you upgraded?
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12:58<ixp425>ml|: I used update-manager
12:59<watt>locklace: usually i install xorg, then download the nvidia binaries from their website
12:59<ml|>it's up to you but why not use aptitude
12:59<christoph>lenny's apt-listbugs currently unable to read the bts?
12:59<weasel>christoph: bugs.d.o's hoster fell off the internet
12:59<dpkg>To use an NVIDIA graphics card with Debian, see If you've done it before, asking me about <nvidia pre-built> or <nvidia m-a> might work. Installing directly from (ie. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia (
12:59<christoph>weasel, well I can get there with my browser somehow
13:00<ixp425>I usually do but I have been just clicking the update-manager icon lately when it says there are updates
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13:00<weasel>christoph: I updated dns a few minutes ago to point to a mirror
13:00<ml|>ixp425: well now ya know
13:00<ixp425>ml|: =)
13:00<christoph>weasel, ok
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13:01<ml|>ixp425: use that to let you know there are updates the use aptitude ;)
13:01<ml|>or I just upgrade when I'm logged in as root
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13:02<ixp425>I'll remember that =)
13:02<ml|>cool :)
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13:05<watt>can someone do me a favor?
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13:07<watt>google `nvidia drivers' and use the dropdown menus on their site to get me a link for the geforce 7 series driver
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13:07<weasel>why not use the packages?
13:07<alemani>hello again I just followed the instrucctions on the debian wiki for the nvidia drivers but I still can't get the driver installed for my card may someone help me please!
13:07<locklace>!tell watt about nvidia
13:08<watt>weasel i like the nvidia logo when Xorg starts
13:08<ml|>watt: follow dpkg instrutions
13:08-!-faw [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:08<watt>ok, yeah. i'll do that...
13:08<ml|>watt: you'll will get that
13:08<watt>anyone using irssi? i cant see the window dpkg opened with me
13:08<ml|>!tell watt -about nvidia
13:09<alemani>watt: alt+[0-9]
13:09<bja>watt: If you install either the package, or the sites dropdown, you'ĺl get your logo, its a matter of who has to work more, when there is a kernel update and you go the nvidia way, you have to do everything again, if you do it with a package, then the guys at debian do the work :)
13:10<watt>alemani: yeah
13:10<ml|>watt: listen to bja :)
13:10-!-magnetic [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:11<alemani>this is what I got with the first method listed on debian's wiki about nvidia drivers setup
13:12<ml|>there seems to be alot of issues with nvidia today
13:12-!-skandaleras [~luiz@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
13:13<ml|>ixp425: still around?
13:13<valdyn>alemani: youre running a kernel that is not supported by that driver?
13:13<bja>ml|: whats the name of the package that downloads everything to buil modules, This german is making me crazy :)
13:13<ixp425>ml|: yep
13:14<locklace>alemani: the method using m-a auto-install?
13:14<alemani>valdyn: yep is a legacy driver but it's the one my puter has ;) so I better try the ones from nvidia ?
13:14-!-soulchild [] has joined #debian
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13:14<ml|>bja: module-assistant
13:14<alemani>locklace: yes
13:14<valdyn>alemani: if debian does not have a newer 96 legacy driver, yes
13:15-!-watt [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
13:15<dpkg>valdyn: brb, too. Be Right Back
13:15<soulchild>HI ALL, is there a setup, that can be startet after using debootstrap, so that I don't have to check a list of things to do, like users, fstab, timezone, grub ?
13:15<locklace>isn't there an nvidia legacy package
13:15<valdyn>locklace: thats what he used
13:15-!-jake28 [] has joined #debian
13:15<alemani>valdyn: ok will check
13:15<bja>ml|: thanks
13:15-!-penguin [penguin@] has joined #debian
13:16<ml|>ixp425: look at this ....
13:16<valdyn>alemani: linux breaks nvidia drivers every other release..
13:16<ml|>bja: np
13:16-!-jake28 [] has left #debian []
13:16<bja>locklace: basically there are three drivers, legacy, current and latest greates, debian only has current
13:16<penguin>I removed xkbd-data but now I lost X, how to get X back?
13:16<alemani>valdyn: yes I know thats what I am trying to use the Debian way setup
13:16<soulchild>Or what is the best way to install debian sid from debian testing to another partition ?
13:16<penguin>xkb-data rather
13:16<ixp425>ml|: ok
13:17<ixp425>ml|: what am I looking at?
13:17-!-ElegantAngel [] has joined #debian
13:17<locklace>ml|: lesson to all, -s is a great thing to do first. ;)
13:17-!-ElegantAngel [] has quit []
13:17<penguin>How to install X please?
13:17<hellues>are there a ppackage for eclipse
13:17<soulchild>penguin: apt-get install xorg
13:17<hellues>that includes php
13:17<ixp425>oh, I see. are you showing me the -s ?
13:17<ml|>ixp425: see aptitude handles problems much netter than any othe pkgd manager
13:17<alemani>valdyn: but it seem that neither method 1,2 or 4 works for me
13:18<hellues>there is no channel "eclipse"
13:18<locklace>ixp425: notice that the -s performs a simulation, so you can see what would happen without actually munging your system
13:18<penguin>I need to install with lower version of xkb-data 1.51 as that package is broken.
13:18<ixp425>ml|: I see that...I will use that in the future
13:18<penguin>I am using testing
13:18<ixp425>locklace: Thanks....I will use that in the future
13:18<ml|>ixp425: that helps
13:19<penguin>bug report said to just remove the package but then I lost X.
13:19<ml|>locklace: right and no need to be root
13:20<locklace>penguin: probably because you removed it plus all of its reverse-depends
13:20<penguin>Now the system wont let me install aptitude.
13:21-!-fregl [] has joined #debian
13:21<locklace>welcome to the club
13:22<ml|>use apt to install aptitude depends
13:22<ml|>the try to install aptitude
13:22<penguin>How to do that
13:22<ml|>penguin: try to install aptitude and will tell you what you need
13:22<penguin>apt-get install aptitude depends; is that the command?
13:22*themill wonders if this will help cure sns and get a few more people using stable
13:23<ml|>themill: sns?
13:23<xemacs4321>I can almost swear by stable !!
13:23<dpkg>sns syndrome is probably a serious disorder otherwise known as Shiny New Shit Syndrome usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. Slashdot readers are more likely than others to contract the condition.
13:23-!-davyg [] has joined #debian
13:23<bja>If everybody used stable, then this channel wouldn't be this fun :)
13:24<locklace>!beer bja
13:24*dpkg deftly decants a fine Bornem Tripple for bja
13:24<dpkg>!find apt
13:24<ml|>testing is not bad at all ;)
13:24-!-kins [~kins@] has joined #debian
13:24<xemacs4321>I DONT LIKE GOTCHAS
13:25<kins>i have a problem with wine audio could anyone help
13:26<penguin>How to enforce aptitude install?
13:26<ml|>i see more aptitude questions in the coming days
13:26-!-Neconide [] has joined #debian
13:26<kins>aptitude install force-all could do the trick\
13:27<ml|>kins: no aptitude
13:27<penguin>Except I have no aptitude
13:27<dpkg>from memory, force is a widely known, and not so well documented *cough* redhat /feature/. It's suppose to break.... right?
13:27-!-sly [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
13:27<penguin>Anybody here know how to fix this system?
13:28<valdyn>!8-ball penguin
13:28<valdyn>!8ball penguin
13:28<dpkg>Please ask again.
13:28<valdyn>penguin: i dont see a clear description of your issue anywhere
13:29<kins>so u want to install aptitude is that it penguin
13:29<penguin>I removed xkb-data using apt-get remove and my whole system is messed up.
13:29-!-ootput [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:29<valdyn>penguin: and you are on sid?
13:29<penguin>No X, No aptitude.
13:29<valdyn>penguin: aptitude install xorg aptitude
13:30<penguin>no aptitude
13:30<valdyn>penguin: ehe, apt-get even
13:30<kins>apt-get install aptitude
13:30-!-erKURITA [] has joined #debian
13:30<penguin>dont work
13:30<themill>!doesn't work
13:30<dpkg>Look buddy, "doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?".
13:30<valdyn>penguin: do you know that we cant read your mind?
13:30<bja> penguin: locate aptitude Just in case you have it on your system cached
13:30<penguin>broken packages
13:30<themill>such as...
13:30<ml|>penguin: doesn't apt tell you what you need to install aptitude?
13:31*gravity wonders why someone would be stupid enough to remove xkb-data anyway
13:31<kins>so u ahve some package manager then :penguin
13:31<ml|>right and
13:31<penguin>I removed xkb-data because it is broken
13:31<valdyn>i guess aptitude would spit out to much information and the user concludes -> to much -> ignore
13:31-!-ootput [] has joined #debian
13:31<penguin>There is bug report and that was solution.
13:31<kins>penguin: are u on a 64 bit system
13:32<ml|>valdyn: haha
13:32-!-neoXsys [~neoXsys@] has joined #debian
13:32<kins>sorry u are not specific of the problem yet
13:32<valdyn>penguin: paste your error messages on a paste site
13:32<locklace>ml|: you're right, i believe... this is the beginning of a long, painful road that will stretch on for the next few weeks
13:32<gravity>penguin: What bug report?
13:32<ml|>locklace: :)
13:32<gravity>I don't remember that one
13:33<kins>u tried installing the lib apt suggested....? :penguin
13:33<penguin>I am at console now which makes pasting and such harder
13:33<valdyn>penguin: nah, just different
13:33<dpkg>Install gpm, which gives you familiar mouse functionality from the console ; or upload a file to; or: apt-get install w3m ; w3m ; hit enter on the Big Box, it will open /usr/bin/editor where you can insert the file, then save ; then hit enter on the submit button in w3m, or the "screen" utility also provides keyboard driven copy/paste, or ask me about <paste2pastebin pipe>
13:33<penguin>How to do that?
13:33<ml|>oh snap
13:33-!-freealan [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
13:33<kins>paste should be shift+ insert
13:34<penguin>And what is copy?
13:34-!-alephnull [~alok@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:34-!-whoda [] has joined #debian
13:34<gravity>Oh, #514975
13:35<whoda>abrotman: are you on both networks are are the channels linked?
13:35<gravity>Yeah, remving xkb-data was still the wrong move
13:35<whoda>Please make sure you have installed the kernel source files for your kernel and that they are properly configured;
13:35<whoda>what package would this be? ^^^
13:35<valdyn>whoda: linux-headers-$(uname -r)
13:36-!-kins [~kins@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:36-!-nuffi [] has joined #debian
13:37-!-whoda [] has quit []
13:37<penguin>So what was right move?
13:37-!-ZerialKiller [~zerial@] has joined #debian
13:38<nuffi>hi there...someone told me penguin got the same problem as me? updated squeeze and now aptitude/synaptic is missing?
13:38<penguin>How to install lower version of xkb-data?
13:39<ixp425>I found a solution
13:39<valdyn>penguin: is that all you need?
13:39<penguin>That is all I needed
13:39<valdyn>penguin: does apt-cache policy xkb-data list a lower version?
13:39<ixp425>ml|: I found a solution
13:39<gravity>penguin: Removing any custom xmodmapping/xbindkeys settings. Or not using gnome if need be, although I doubt that's the issue
13:39-!-zeroXten [~zeroXten@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:39<penguin>Don't know what I need now
13:39<ml|>ixp425: ?
13:39<valdyn>penguin: ok, then you still need to paste the errors
13:39-!-javatexan1 [] has joined #debian
13:39<ixp425>ml| I downloaded the dependencies from lenny and installed them. I will have a list in a few moments
13:40<ml|>ixp425: yes that would be one way, but apt could have done that
13:40<ml|>for you
13:40<ixp425>ml|: how?
13:40<penguin>apt-get policy xkb-data lists only top version
13:41<gravity>Also, not using unstable and removing xkb-data without installing -legacy
13:41<ml|>ixp425: by installing just what aptitude depended on
13:41<ml|>ixp425: then install atptitude
13:41<ixp425>ml|: ok, I see what you are saying
13:41<nuffi> <-- this is the output when i try to (re)install aptitude...
13:41-!-berto [] has quit [Quit: bye]
13:41-!-alemani [~ivan@] has quit [Quit: bbl]
13:42<ml|>ixp425: but whatever works :)
13:42<ixp425>ml|: but there was a version error. The newer version wouldn't work with aptitude and I didn't know the next oldest version number
13:42<ixp425>ml|: yeah, I guess whatever works
13:42-!-ZerialKiller [~zerial@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:42<penguin>SO what do I do?
13:43<ml|>ixp425: well glad you are on your way to fix aptitude
13:43-!-midlis [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:43<ixp425>so, I downloaded these files from lenny and then dpkg -i 'd them:
13:44-!-Hyy337 [] has joined #debian
13:44-!-Torsten_W [] has quit [Quit: so, nu isser wech]
13:44<ixp425>ml|: thanks! thanks again for your help
13:44<ml|>ixp425: problem fixed?
13:44<ml|>ixp425: np glad it's fixed :)
13:45-!-Hyy337 [] has quit []
13:45-!-Hyy337 [] has joined #debian
13:45<locklace>well, "fixed"
13:45-!-Hyy337 [] has quit []
13:45<nuffi>and it wants me to autoremove the following packages:
13:45<ml|>ixp425: remember use aptitude
13:45<ixp425>ml|: I will =)
13:46-!-tttxxx [mark@] has joined #debian
13:46<ml|>!why aptitude
13:46<dpkg>aptitude has more advanced conflict/dependency resolution than other tools, it has far more advanced searching available, and will automatically uninstall unneeded dependencies, read /usr/share/doc/aptitude/README for more info. Aptitude can also remove or purge one package at the same time as installing others all from the command line, making it much easier to recover from broken dependencies.
13:46<tttxxx>I am logged on from cygwin, but can I copy from this terminal?
13:46<ml|>nuffi: what is that paste?
13:47<dr|z3d>tttxxx: Highlight the desired text in the terminal, then middle click to paste (usually).
13:47<dr|z3d>(Or right click).
13:48-!-Torsten_W [] has joined #debian
13:48<ml|>middle to paste
13:48<penguin>What info do you guys need to help me?
13:48<ml|>right click to cp
13:48<penguin>I will send to file and then try to paste.
13:48-!-interbird [] has joined #debian
13:48<penguin>what a headache.
13:49<ml|>penguin: read what ixp425 did, might fix your problem
13:50<penguin>I can't scroll with the console
13:50<ixp425>did you loose your aptitude?
13:50<penguin>THis is one big major headache
13:51<penguin>aptitude and X
13:51<nuffi>hmm..i tryed downloading the .deb packages but it doesnt work: libept0 hängt ab von libapt-pkg-libc6.7-6-4.6; aber: Paket libapt-pkg-libc6.7-6-4.6 ist nicht installiert.
13:51<ixp425>you have to download them from an older source like lenny
13:52<locklace>or you could have referred to the depends list i posted earlier...
13:52-!-soulchild [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
13:53<ml|>ixp425: if you can paste the links here that you used for penguin he has no X for aptitude fix
13:53<gravity>penguin: Just use apt-get
13:53<ixp425>ok..just a sec
13:53<tttxxx>I cannot get X going
13:54<tttxxx>Where is sources.list located?
13:54-!-ga_bash [~gaurav@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:54<gravity>penguin: Also, why are you running unstable if you can't deal with these things yourself?
13:54<tttxxx>I am runnng testing I think.
13:54<interbird>tttxxx: /etc/ap
13:54<interbird>tttxxx: /etc/apt
13:54<themill>dpkg: tell tttxxx about grounding
13:54-!-Gun_Smoke [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:55-!-Neconide [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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13:55<tttxxx>Apparetly you guys don't know how to fix it either.
13:55<ixp425>what arch?
13:55<nuffi>i used the apt from lenny but still doesnt work
13:55<ixp425>nuffi: what arch?
13:55<tttxxx>I am running testing
13:55-!-ga_bash [~gaurav@] has joined #debian
13:56<bja>tttxxx: If you give a complete set of facts for your system, then someone can help you, if not , well foretelling is not on todays activities
13:56<nuffi>on my thinkpad it worked just fine...also x86 testing
13:56<tttxxx>I have had testing running on this computer for about five years now.
13:57-!-m42 [] has joined #debian
13:57<ixp425>then after they are installed, you can upgrade to squeeze again
13:57<ixp425>(but not apt)
13:57<bja>tttxxx: Then by now you should know that testing is a moving target
13:57<tttxxx>I squeeze testing?
13:58<tttxxx>So how to fix X?
13:58-!-iiv [~iiv@] has joined #debian
13:58-!-xxiao [] has joined #debian
13:58<iiv>I've solved problem which 2 days earlier I asked for.
13:58<iiv>Diskless booting possible on Qemu 0.9.1 by gPXE (may get at
13:58<iiv>Also needed set up tap interface, enable ip forwarding, and add route for tap iface.
13:59<iiv> is the most helpful article
13:59<tttxxx>What is command to install X?
13:59<tttxxx>apt-get install xorg?
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14:00<ixp425>apt-get install xserver-xorg
14:00<ml|>!tell tttxxx -about xorg
14:00<ixp425>ml|: what is this tell stuff?
14:00<gravity>ixp425: xorg, not xserver-xorg
14:00<ixp425>gravity: oh, ok
14:01<dr|z3d>ixp425: It's directing the bot to message you info directly.
14:01-!-ajavid [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:01<ml|>!tell ixp425 -about dpkgbot
14:01<nuffi>so i installed apt from lenny, libept0 from lenny and aptitude from lenny - but it still does not work
14:01<ml|>right instead of here
14:02-!-mart_n [] has left #debian []
14:02<nuffi>The following packages have unmet dependencies: synaptic: Depends: libapt-inst-libc6.7-6-1.1
14:02<nuffi>E: Broken packages
14:03-!-themill [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:03<ml|>nuffi: get that also
14:03<ixp425>nuffi: did you download the deb's and then dpkg -i <pkgname> ?
14:03<nuffi>libapt-inst is part of apt
14:04-!-Bunnyh [] has quit []
14:05<tttxxx>it tells me xserverxorg depends on x11-xkb-utils but that is installed
14:05<tttxxx>So how come it thinks it isn't installed?
14:06<valdyn>tttxxx: versioned depend that you didnt read properly?
14:06<locklace>one apt/dpkg feature that would be nice is a snapshot/rollback capability
14:06<valdyn>locklace: that would invalidate many postinst scripts
14:07-!-click170 [] has joined #debian
14:07<tttxxx>It says package has unmet dependencies but when I try to install it says it already latest version.
14:07-!-githogori [] has joined #debian
14:07<valdyn>locklace: i.e. its the packages, not aptitude that make that impossible
14:08<locklace>valdyn: you mean because some make irreversible changes on install?
14:08<valdyn>locklace: make changes not part of or tracked by the package management
14:08<tttxxx>dpkg -l shows it is being installed.
14:08<dpkg>ii shows it is being installed. 2.4-11 ultra s3kr1t #debian package
14:09<valdyn>locklace: anything a shell sript can do, that the maintainer deemed necessary
14:09-!-pawel [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:09<tttxxx>also dpkg -l shows package as instaalled but apt-get thinks it is not installed when I try to install other pakcage.
14:09<locklace>valdyn: doesn't that cause problems with simple package removal too?
14:09<gravity>locklace: Not really irreversible necessarily, just things that apt isn't aware of since the scripts are just shell scripts that can do basically anything
14:10<valdyn>locklace: other than that you could just parse /var/log/dpkg.log create a rollback command
14:10<gravity>I suppose it could monitor changes these days though, that'd be neat
14:10<tttxxx>Anyone know how to install X?
14:10<locklace>gravity: that would be quite cool
14:10-!-ajavid [] has joined #debian
14:10<gravity>tttxxx: Install the xorg package
14:10<valdyn>locklace: removing a file is way easier than back-editing a file
14:10<xemacs4321>or cvs a snapshot of the state of packages
14:11-!-amp [~amp@] has joined #debian
14:11<tttxxx>Unmet dependencies
14:11-!-Bunnyh [] has joined #debian
14:11<locklace>valdyn: right but package scripts may be changing files that are not part of the package itself (i guess)
14:11<gravity>tttxxx: Use aptitude in interactive mode to find out why
14:12<valdyn>locklace: yes
14:12<locklace>so even just removing such a package is dicey
14:12<gravity>They shouldn't be modifying the files from other packages, if they're following policy
14:12<valdyn>locklace: that means the maintainer needs to provide a fitting postrm file too
14:12-!-amp_ [~amp@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:13<tttxxx>I have no aptitude either
14:13<bja>Thats why when you make a postrm script, you have to plan for the worst case scenario
14:13<gravity>tttxxx: Use tasksel to install the desktop task
14:13<valdyn>locklace: you can alays parse dpkg.log and purge + install older version, but thats not at all a rollback
14:13-!-xxiao [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
14:14<gravity>tttxxx: Why do you not have a normal install?
14:15<locklace>yes, proper rollback would have to snapshot config and similar files touched by the package
14:16<tttxxx>Is lenny stable?
14:16-!-neoXsys [~neoXsys@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:16<tttxxx>Or is that squeeze?
14:16<valdyn>tttxxx: what does dpkg show exactly?
14:16<tttxxx>with what?
14:16<valdyn>tttxxx: and what is your error exactly?
14:17<tttxxx>unmet dependencies
14:17<valdyn>tttxxx: the package that you think is installed
14:17<valdyn>tttxxx: EXACTLY
14:17<tttxxx>I am thinking of changing source.list to lenny
14:17<gravity>The Xserver scripts had a custom config rollback thing implemented a while back, but that's too heavyweight for most packages
14:17-!-ottoshmidt [~ottoshmid@] has joined #debian
14:17<gravity>And even for the X server itself these days
14:17-!-Glenn^BF [] has joined #debian
14:17<tttxxx>dpkg -l says ii
14:17<dpkg>No packages found matching says ii
14:18-!-xxiao [] has joined #debian
14:18<tttxxx>it says ii
14:18-!-nuffi [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
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14:18<tttxxx>Is changing source.list to lenny from testing a big no no or what?
14:19<sney>it might make some things go funky
14:19<gravity>tttxxx: Wait...
14:19-!-user1 [] has joined #debian
14:19<sney>but it sounds like you're already there
14:19<gravity>tttxxx: Your sources.list is at testing and you changed it to lenny?
14:19<tttxxx>No not yet
14:19-!-ixp425 [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
14:20<gravity>tttxxx: It's just at testing?
14:20<tttxxx>It has been testing for five years.
14:20<tttxxx>I did a dist-upgrade over a year ago.
14:20<tttxxx>Maybe I need to do another or something.
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14:21<bja>tttxxx: bingo, As I see things, you are stuck in between two releases. But then again I'm no expert
14:21<sney>when did lenny become stable? it can't have been that much more than a year ago
14:22<tttxxx>It must be less than 3-4 months
14:22<compgrokker>february 14th iirc
14:22<gravity>Valentine's Day
14:22<user1>hi. i'm trying to access my gnome desktop via vnc in my LAN. i have configured it as explained at but i can't seem to get X started on the vnc client (the computer I am connecting from)
14:22<bja>sney: sometime after 25/nov/09
14:22<tttxxx>So i should do apt-get dist-upgrade?
14:22<user1>the error message is: xvnc4viewer: unable to open display ""
14:23<dr|z3d>user1: You probably want to install x11vnc
14:23<tttxxx>Than I probably will get really screwed up.
14:23<sney>tttxxx: well it probably can't make things worse
14:23<user1>dr|z3d: i installed that on the vnc server, i.e. the pc i want to connect to. is this correct?
14:23<tttxxx>What is better changing to lenny or apt-get dist-upgrade?
14:23<dr|z3d>user1: Assuming that is you want to attach to an existing X session. Otherwise, tightvncserver. Either way, you need the server running.
14:24<dr|z3d>user1: Sure, vncserver in the target machine, client on your machine.
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14:24<user1>dr|z3d: yes i want to attach to an existing X session. the vnc client runs on a Xen host, i want as little stuff there as possible.
14:25<dr|z3d>user1: Then you'd run x11vnc on the target, probably.
14:25<user1>dr|z3d: that's what i'm doing, i think. I reconfigured gdm there to start it, and it does it according to its logs
14:26<bja>user1: Do you have any other connectivity with the client vm
14:26<user1>now what does not seem to work is opening a display on the vnc client
14:26<user1>bja: ssh, if that's what you mean?
14:26<dr|z3d>user1: So how are you connceting with the client? Are you supplying the session number as an argument? eg ?
14:26<user1>bja: also a virtual console, since it's xen
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14:27<user1>dr|z3d: yes, i run, on the vnc client, xvnc4viewer
14:27-!-voland_1 [~Lavkraft@] has joined #debian
14:27<user1>xvnc4viewer: unable to open display ""
14:27<bja>user1: can you scan your vm for openports, what i mean is checking with another program you have the right stuff running
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14:28<user1>bja: network connectivity is fine, i don't think that's an issue.
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14:29<bja>user1: Ok, just checking sometimes its as simple as that
14:29<user1>bja: well, i may be wrong there:
14:29<user1>nc -vv 5900
14:29<user1>debbyguest [] 5900 (?) : Connection refused
14:29<user1>this was run from the vnc client (xen host)
14:30<user1>debbyguest is where the vnc server is supposedly running
14:31<user1>i think vnc servers usually listen on port 5900, right?
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14:31<bja>user1: Connectivity is ok, so then again it is not on the host machine, you'll have to take a look at the vm's configuration of the xvnc server
14:32<bja>user1: And then check on the host that you are looking at the right place where your vm lets you. :)
14:32<bja>Esier said that done
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14:34<user1>sorry, something's wrong with my client here
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14:35<user1>can you repeat your last 3 or so statements, please? maybe as a /query
14:36<ed_debian>question: Is there a way to get online without purchasing access from an ISP?
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14:36<locklace>ed_debian: hack your ambient wifi
14:36<user1>sorry for this. i was running the irssi client via serial console and that wasn't a good idea
14:36<dr|z3d>user1: Make sure you're attempting to connect to ip:session# eg
14:36-!-kop [] has joined #debian
14:37<sney>ed_debian: take your laptop to safeway
14:37-!-ifvoid is now known as ifvoit_1068646
14:37<ed_debian>locklace, Thank you but aside from that
14:37<ed_debian>sney, safeway?
14:37<sney>and other places that provide free hotspots
14:37<locklace>ed_debian: not sure what kind of answer you're expecting, net access is not generally free in most places yet
14:37-!-m42 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving -- real life goes on.]
14:38<ed_debian>locklace, That's what I'm trying to understand. Why not? What do ISP's connect to? Each other?
14:38<locklace>ed_debian: yes
14:38<sney>there's usually one big guy on the area who owns all the lines, or it's a telecom or cable company
14:38<locklace>ed_debian: you'll also get access via your school if you're a student, but that's also not "free"
14:38<sney>depending on what medium it is
14:38<sney>some university libraries are public and have wi-fi
14:39<ed_debian>sney, So the actual wires are owned by somebody and you are paying them to use it
14:39<sney>I used to go to the columbia university library and leech their internet
14:39<ed_debian>sney, And I'm assuming that it is probably impossible to be a node on their network (their wires) without them knowing it.
14:39<locklace>ed_debian: the wires are owned by your ilec, so you have to pay line rental fee to them plus fee to isp for getting out to the net via their routers
14:40<ed_debian>locklace, ilec?
14:40<locklace>ed_debian: other options are wifi (as noted) and things like cell/3g/wimax
14:40<user1>dr|z3d: i tried this, same error message: xvncviewer
14:40<sney>well there have been cases of people splicing into cable connections via those exterior junction boxes
14:40<sney>but it usually doesn't last
14:40<user1>dr|z3d: i think the real problem is that the vnc client cannot access the locally running x server
14:40<locklace>ed_debian: incumbent local exchange carrier (us terminology, but essentially the same situation in many other locales)
14:41<ed_debian>locklace, so is ilec a government agency? Or a company?
14:41<locklace>sney: hehe, we could go all the way back to the phreaking heyday
14:41<sney>phreaking off
14:41<user1>dr|z3d: since the error message changes only when i set an option to use a different (local) display:
14:41<sney>yes dial-up that is one way to get free internet, if you could call it that
14:41<locklace>ed_debian: depends where you are. in the us it's a baby bell
14:42<interbird>user1: did you enable System->Preferences->Remote Desktop in Gnome ?
14:42-!-amphi_ is now known as amphi
14:42<user1>xvncviewer -display 1 -> xvncviewer: unable to open display ":1"
14:42<dr|z3d>user1: Not running a firewall there that's blocking port 5900?
14:43<user1>interbird: no, since i cannot access the gui yet
14:43<ed_debian>locklace, ic. Well suppose I don't want to pay an ISP for routing fees. Is there a way to use the wires set down by ilec. Aside from the usual stealing the neighbor's wifi
14:43-!-ixp425 [] has joined #debian
14:43<user1>dr|z3d: only the NAT script of xen, nothing else
14:43<dr|z3d>What if you try tightvncserver instead?
14:44<locklace>ed_debian: no; you will essentially always have to pay an isp for routing. only other option is something like dial-in to a university
14:44<interbird>user1: and vncviewer also does not work? there is a vnc-server running ?
14:44<dr|z3d>That will spawn a separate X session, but still.. let's see if that works.
14:44<ed_debian>locklace, is dial-in the same as dial-up as in over the phone lines?
14:44<locklace>ed_debian: yes, something like ppp over 56k analog modem
14:45<ed_debian>locklace, Thank you for your help again!
14:45-!-shamanix [~none@] has joined #debian
14:45<locklace>ed_debian: if you want faster wired access than that, you're talking something like cable or dsl service at a minimum, and those are services provided at cost by isps
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14:48<christoph>hm why do i get an broken pipe there? ->
14:48-!-tghy [~dima@] has joined #debian
14:49<tghy>Hello there
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14:49<tghy>I need to ask about KRadio
14:50<tghy>I wanna share my radio through network
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14:50<user1>interbird: no, vncviewer gives the same error message. and actually nothing seems to be listening on 5900 on the vnc server
14:50<ed_debian>locklace, I sent you a separate message did you see it?
14:50<user1>so apparently something is wrong there.
14:51<bja>user1: do you have port 6000 opened on your vm machine
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14:53<user1>bja: nothing is listening on port 6000 either. or put differently, no vnc server is listening
14:54<user1>dr|z3d: this is my gdm configurationwhich is supposed to spawn the vnc server
14:54<user1>it's just some of the file, but everything else is default and i have not touched it
14:54<cahoot>user1: I might be wrong but don't one need enable tcp connection to X for vnc?
14:55<valdyn>user1: i think x11vnc might be something different than what you want
14:55<user1>cahoot: i wouldn't know.
14:55<user1>valdyn: what do you think would i want instead?
14:55<valdyn>user1: vnc is *not* an X server
14:55<valdyn>user1: x11vnc is *not* an X server
14:55<user1>valdyn: i hope so.
14:56<valdyn>user1: gdm logs you into and starts X servers
14:56<user1>valdyn: i've pasted a url of a web page where i found this configuration
14:57<user1>i altered it slightly, though, since it was referring to a command that does not exist in lenny (which i am running here)
14:57<valdyn>user1: that howto talks about Xvnc
14:58<valdyn>user1: that is an entirely different program
14:58<valdyn>user1: Xvnc IS an X server
14:58<user1>oops, i did not know
14:58<user1>ok, so this cannot work as expected
14:58<valdyn>user1: while x11vnc exports your current X display over vnc
14:59<user1>ok, so is x11vnc a good way to do what i'm trying to do?
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14:59<valdyn>user1: i dont know what you are trying to do
15:00<user1>that is, access a gnome desktop via network (trusted LAN) from another system.
15:00<valdyn>user1: if you want to export via vnc *after* you logged in, thats what x11vnc does
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15:01<user1>basically i just want to have the same behaviour you would have if you had the WM running on the xen host, but have it run within a xen guest
15:02<user1>i.e. i want to have all x applications run in the xen guest, and access those via a vnc client running on the xen host
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15:03<lwljrw>what version of wine is in the debian repos?
15:03<lwljrw>how can i check things like this myself next time?
15:04<user1>valdyn: so i would prefer to have everything that must not neccessarily run on the xen host on the guest instead. this includes the session management and gdm.
15:04<Nemoder>lwljrw: apt-cache policy wine
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15:05<lwljrw>Nemoder: thx
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15:08<chahibi>I don't have sound on KDE4/sid, what are the first things to check?
15:08<cahoot>speaker-test -t wav -c2
15:08<chahibi>I get
15:08<chahibi>ALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:1008:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave
15:08<chahibi>Playback open error: -16,Device or resource busy
15:09<cahoot>chahibi: my guess is artsd is occupying the device
15:10<cahoot>i e kde's sound system
15:10-!-CrazyFoam [] has joined #debian
15:10<chahibi>cahoot: I killed artsd, same problem persists
15:11-!-mode/#debian [+l 425] by debhelper
15:11-!-CrazyFoam is now known as Guest990
15:11<cahoot>chahibi: does fuser -v /dev/snd/* /dev/dsp* return anything?
15:11<bja>chahibi: artsd has a tendency to respawn itself, check that it is indeed deado
15:11<chahibi>bja: it is absolutely dead
15:12<chahibi>/dev/snd/controlC0: youssef 4360 F.... kmix
15:12<chahibi>/dev/dsp: youssef 4321 F.... knotify4
15:12<cahoot>chahibi: knotify is the culprit
15:12<cahoot>why is it using oss emulation?
15:13<chahibi>cahoot: No idea
15:13<cahoot>chahibi: if all your sound apps default to use alsa output you shouldn't get those msgs
15:14<chahibi>cahoot: where can I set it for KDE?
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15:15-!-Guest990 is now known as CrazyFoam
15:15<cahoot>control center ->sound? (I don't use kde)
15:16<chahibi>cahoot: Here is what I get using speaker-test :
15:16<chahibi>cahoot: but no sound is hearable
15:17<hellues>how can i fix that errors
15:17<cahoot>chahibi: you have only one soundcard? cat /proc/asound/cards
15:17<ml|>chahibi: try aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav
15:18<cahoot>why if speaker-test does the job?
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15:18<user1>ok, it seems like what i would like to do can be achieved with vnc4server, which also includes an X server module which gdm can invoke
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15:18<user1>i think i'll find my way from here. thanks for your help.
15:18<ml|>cahoot: no reason thought another test wouldn't hurt
15:19<chahibi>cahoot, ml|:
15:19<chahibi>still no sound
15:19<cahoot>chahibi: make sure it's unmuted, /etc/init.d/alsa-utils reset 0
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15:20<chahibi>cahoot: It says invalid card number 0
15:21<cahoot>that's mysterious since /proc/asound lists it as card0
15:21<cahoot>chahibi: try alsa force-reload
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15:22<chahibi>cahoot: When I open alsamixer, it says " Chip: Nvidia MCP78 HDMI " , which is probably not the right sound card │"
15:22-!-narcan [] has joined #debian
15:22<chahibi>cahoot: I am sure my speakers are working
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15:23<ml|>do speakers have volume control on them
15:24<chahibi>ml|: no
15:24<cahoot>chahibi: did you reload alsa?
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15:24<chahibi>cahoot: Yes, I did Shutting down ALSA...done. , Setting up ALSA...done.
15:24<cahoot> cat /proc/asound/cards again
15:25<cahoot>chahibi: also - you *might* have to explicitly enable speakers in alsamixer
15:26<chahibi>cahoot: Volume is on maximum
15:26-!-johns [] has joined #debian
15:27<cahoot>not MM at the bottom?
15:27<ml|>right was about to say ;)
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15:29<cahoot>chahibi: did you really reload alsa? you paste indicates you did run alsa-utils - not alsa force-reload
15:29<chahibi>cahoot, ml| :
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15:30<cahoot>chahibi: try toggle the digital/analog switches
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15:32<cahoot>speaker-test -t wav -c2
15:32<cahoot>run that in one termimal and play with alsamixer in another
15:33<ml|>ah, speaker-test is nice
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15:33<ml|>cahoot: nice
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15:34<RimFrost>hello everyone. today i added this repo in my sources.list deb sid main when i wanted to install Deluge but i hit "Mark all upgrades" in Synaptic and it started to update everything som Sids repo into my 5.0 Lenny should it do so? im running Lenny x64
15:34-!-lwljrw [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:35<enouf>artsd? doesn't kpoop4 now use phenom or someshit? and one needs 'systemsettings' to get into k control center? i'd lsof and egrep the crap and kill it all - insure alsa-oss is installed, restart DE session
15:35<chahibi>cahoot: still nothing :s
15:36<cahoot>chahibi: does fuser -v /dev/snd/* /dev/dsp* return anything?
15:36<RimFrost>does the Sid upgrades work in Lenny to?
15:36<enouf>fuser -m works better here
15:36<chahibi>cahoot: no, nothing
15:37-!-puppy [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:37<cahoot>and you're sure you haven't suddenly gone deaf?
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15:38<chahibi>cahoot: no :), I can hear the noise from the street
15:38<cahoot>ok just checking
15:39<chahibi>I am going to restart, and see what it gives
15:39*simonrvn shudders at the bad grammar
15:39<chahibi>thanks a lot cahoot
15:39<chahibi>simonrvn: which?
15:39<RimFrost>does it always update when i add a new repo? like a repo from Sid, Etch and so on?
15:39<chahibi>what it will give?
15:40<ml|>cahoot: hah
15:40-!-knoppix_ [] has joined #debian
15:40<knoppix_>hi to all
15:40<dpkg>hello, ml|
15:40-!-knoppix_ is now known as Guest996
15:40-!-chahibi [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
15:41<Guest996>i am kind of new to linux
15:41<enouf>RimFrost: the only thing sid related you/one might use when running a Lenny system is what '/msg dpkg simple sid backport' tells you
15:41<enouf>RimFrost: notice the line == "deb-src ..." , not "deb ..."
15:42<Guest996>and i am having a problem that i hope you can help with
15:42-!-hobbesti1rou_ [] has joined #debian
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15:42<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, or if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask (ask the whole channel!). We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer, ask a few hours later or ask
15:43<RimFrost>ok cuz i added a Sid repo in my sources.list needed it to install Deluge, and i did mark all upgrades and it started to upgrade like alot...
15:43<Guest996>when i start my add and remove packages
15:43<RimFrost>Synaptic adds/removes packages
15:44<Guest996>i get yes i ge3t this msg
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15:45<simonrvn>that's um, worth a "duh" comment
15:45<chahibi>simonrvn: what was the bad grammar?
15:46<Guest996>it says that /home/root/.synaptic-mkdir cant be found
15:46<simonrvn>using plural with singular nouns and verbs
15:47-!-arw [~usuario@] has left #debian []
15:48<cahoot>that's the benefit and plight of ircing in ones native language - to endure it being misspoken
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15:49<RimFrost>i let it update, im sure its something good :)
15:49-!-knoppix__ [] has joined #debian
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15:50<knoppix__>E: ERROR: could not create configuration directory /home/root/.synaptic - mkdir (2 No such file or directory)
15:50-!-knoppix__ is now known as Guest999
15:50<simonrvn>not my native language either...
15:50<Guest999>that is the msg i get
15:50<Guest999>how do i fix
15:51<simonrvn>rathr obvious.... what's the error say? "no such file or directory". what's the command? "mkdir". do you understand the error now?
15:51<djc>knoppix__ which release of debian are you using?
15:52<dpkg>Knoppix is _not_ Debian. Seek Knoppix help in freenode's #knoppix. Knoppix is a live CD distribution which is <based on Debian>, useful as a rescue CD, to test hardware, and for situations where you have access to a computer but it isn't Debian. unofficial: <Debian-live> is the Debian equivalent for publishing live systems.
15:52<Guest999>knoppix 6.1
15:52<simonrvn>*read* it, slowly if you have to, make out piece by piece. use your head. messages like these for the most part are quite clear in *nix.
15:53<simonrvn>and ask in #knoppix next time ....
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15:53<enouf>you created a user called 'root' and you gave that user a /home ? ugh
15:53<djc>how would one even do that from a livecd?
15:54<Guest999>i installed
15:54<djc>regardless, you need help from other knoppix users
15:54<enouf>persistent-home or something .. who cares
15:54-!-PaCcO`XS` [~humber@] has joined #debian
15:54<simonrvn>must be a knoppix crappage
15:54<djc>see above message from dpkg
15:54-!-lingkhaang [] has joined #debian
15:54<djc>this is #debian
15:54<enouf>where? :-p
15:55<Guest999>on harddrive
15:55<djc>regardless, you need help from other knoppix users, see above message from dpkg
15:55<Supaplex>man mkdir :)
15:55<hellues>GConf Error: Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, or you have stale NFS locks due to a system crash. See for information. (Details - 1: Failed to get connection to session: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expire
15:55<hellues>d, or the network connection was broken.)
15:55<hellues>how can i fix that error
15:55-!-user1 [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
15:55<djc>read it and check what is suggests as possible causes?
15:56-!-AbsintheSyringe [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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15:56<djc>im off
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15:56<Supaplex>I know, we can issue an RMA for the user. Then we'll have a factory refurbed user that'll hopefully work better.
15:57<dpkg>A satisfied customer? We should have him stuffed!
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15:58<hellues>hey someone answer me pls
15:58<Supaplex>hellues: what did you try, exactly, in relation to the very helpful error message given to you?
15:59-!-azrael [] has joined #debian
15:59<hellues>i open gedit from console
15:59<hellues>that is it i took that errors
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15:59<Guest999>thank you 2 the ones that realize knoppix is a debian distro
15:59<Supaplex>so you gave up as soon as you saw the error
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16:00<valdyn>hellues: how exactly are you trying to start it? as root in a non-root x session?
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16:00<valdyn>hellues: bad answer
16:00<dpkg>It has been said that root is the administrative account - only use it when root power is needed. So no reading mail, compiling programs, or running applications as root. And don't even think about irc'ing as root, it increases the danger from exploits and trojans (such as bliss), or see, for example, the security advisory on BitchX
16:00<valdyn>hellues: in a non-root x session?
16:01<valdyn>hellues: got root how?
16:01<hellues>with command "su"
16:01<Supaplex>he bribed the box with upgrades.
16:01<valdyn>hellues: use the command sudo or if you are lazy to configure it, the command sux
16:01-!-binarymutant [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:01<valdyn>hellues: nevermind, sux wont work
16:01<hellues>okey i used sudo but how can i fix that
16:01-!-sup-y0 [] has joined #debian
16:02<Supaplex>pico, vim, zile, ed. yeah, use ed.
16:02<hellues>i have to become root to use /var/www
16:02<valdyn>hellues: sudo should work actually
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16:02<Supaplex>sudo will strip $DISPLAY right?
16:02<andy>Good evening, everyone - I've just apt-updated 'testing' using synaptic, & it tells me if I upgrade apt, what seems like all other apt-related packages have to be removed - anyone else here had this?
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16:02<hellues>is there a way to fix that error i cant use nautilus gedit correctly
16:02-!-sascha1978 [] has joined #debian
16:03<hellues>i cannt use correctly
16:03<ml|>andy: yes don't do it!
16:03<valdyn>hellues: that error should not show if you use sudo
16:03<valdyn>hellues: are you on debian?
16:03<ml|>andy: do a safe-upgrade
16:03<hellues>it doesnt show when i am normal user
16:03<valdyn>hellues: i knew that
16:03<hellues>but i cannot use edit menu
16:03-!-beer [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:03<hellues>highlight matching brackets
16:04<hellues>display line number
16:04<hellues>it is closed
16:04<valdyn>hellues: answer the questions
16:04<hellues>yeah i am debian
16:04-!-cahoot [~radix@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:04<valdyn>hellues: which release?
16:04-!-Jan-Jaap [] has joined #debian
16:04<ml|>!tell andy -about aptitude
16:05<valdyn>hellues: when did you log in?
16:05<Supaplex>apt-get install juice -t squeeze is the juice worth the squeeze?
16:05<hellues> three hours ago something like that
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16:05<valdyn>hmm, sudo should work
16:06<hellues>valdyn, i cannot use gedit nautilus option when i am normal user
16:06<Jan-Jaap>Hi all, I'm trying to install drupal6 using apt. I want to use postgresql, I'm already running it for other purposes. How do I get apt to stop wanting to install mysql - the package page for drupal6 says it's supported but how?
16:06<valdyn>hellues: what does "sudo echo $HOME" give?
16:06<ml|>!tell hellues -about sudo
16:07<valdyn>hellues: you mean you cannot edit root owned files from nautilus
16:07<valdyn>hellues: thats ok.
16:07-!-chris__ [] has joined #debian
16:07<hellues>it gave home
16:07<hellues>for example i cannot set nautilus to browser display
16:08<valdyn>hellues: i dont really understand what a "gedit nautilus option" is supposed to be
16:08<hellues>i cannot use settings
16:08<hellues>edit > preferences
16:08-!-chris__ [] has quit []
16:08<valdyn>hellues: ok
16:08<valdyn>hellues: whats the problem with it?
16:08<hellues>it is closed
16:08<hellues>i cannot click that
16:09<valdyn>greyed ?
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16:10<valdyn>you can run nautilus-file-management-properties ?
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16:10<hellues>i copy paste error
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16:13<chahibi>My sound bug is similar to
16:13<valdyn>hellues: that shell prompt looks like one you get after using "su"
16:13-!-sup-y0 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:13<valdyn>hellues: i *already* told you taht running these programs does not work as root with su
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16:14<hellues>this doesnt work in normal user
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16:15<valdyn>hellues: ps aux | grep gconfd
16:15<lucas_>hi all
16:15<lucas_>i'm facing some difficulties on avidemux
16:15<hellues>valdyn, hell 4412 0.0 0.1 7244 4052 ? S 18:49 0:01 /usr/lib/libgconf2-4/gconfd-2
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16:16<lucas_>I'd like to merge 256 video files
16:16-!-toad [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:16<valdyn>hellues: relogging might fix this already
16:16<lucas_>but the GUI only open one file and i dont want to repeat it 254 times
16:16<valdyn>hellues: provided you are on up to date squeeze
16:16<lucas_>how can i do with the command line?
16:17-!-chahibi [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
16:17<lucas_>these files must be merges
16:17<valdyn>lucas_: google it
16:17<lucas_>always tried google but i've only found a script to convert several files, no merge of a lot
16:17<ml|>!fgi avidemux merge
16:18<ml|>!fgi lucas_ avidemux merge
16:18<dpkg>lucas_: merge
16:18<valdyn>thats not a useful google query
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16:19<valdyn>lucas_: you get to link a few tools to decode and merge those files, probably
16:19<valdyn>lucas_: thats beyond the scope of this channel
16:19<ml|>valdyn: true
16:19<Jan-Jaap>anyone here know how to install drupal6 using postgres instead of mysql? I did google it ;)
16:20<valdyn>lucas_: or for a restricted number of formats
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16:21-!-mode/#debian [+l 416] by debhelper
16:21<lucas_>valdyn: thanks i'll try
16:22-!-sascha1978 [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
16:22<valdyn>lucas_: worst case is: unmux files, join the audio, join the video, mux into new movie, thats quite a few steps anyway
16:23<lucas_>files are wma type... :-(
16:23<lucas_>wmv sorry
16:23<valdyn>lucas_: thats not a problem
16:23<hellues>valdyn, you must say a clue to me :d
16:24<valdyn>hellues: im waiting for you to relog and test if it works then
16:24<hellues>ii look and there are some upgrades
16:24<hellues>where is gconf logging file
16:24<hellues>/var/log/gconf2 ?
16:24<valdyn>hellues: log out and back in
16:25-!-hellues [~hell@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:25<ml|>hellues: don't upgrade apt
16:25<valdyn>hellues: no idea, probably ~/.xsession-errors
16:25<bja>Ok on risk of beeing exorcised does anyone now of an irc channel for Mandriva?
16:25<valdyn>!shoot bja
16:25*dpkg blows bja away with an Uzi
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16:26<ml|>bja: freenode maybe?
16:26-!-hell_ [~hell@] has joined #debian
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16:26<bja>I know its my sin, but then i and i alone have to bear the consequences.
16:26<hell_>valdyn, same errors
16:26-!-Gekz [] has joined #debian
16:26<bja>ml|: thx
16:27-!-Glenn [] has joined #debian
16:27<apfelmann>hi, i'm using debian lenny on a appleG3...trying to run tor/ doesnt work...with ff-torbutton
16:27<bja>apfelmann: #tor
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16:27<bja>apfelmann: lots of info there
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16:33<ed_debian>When I suspend everything works fine except that there isn't any button on the tower keyboard or mouse that will bring the system out of suspend
16:33<ed_debian>Is there a way to specify a button to press?
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16:33<pasoev>Hello, please, anyone help, I am new to debian, I tryed a lot, but I can`t install nvidia driver
16:34<pasoev>I know only Installing by envy
16:34<dpkg>To use an NVIDIA graphics card with Debian, see If you've done it before, asking me about <nvidia pre-built> or <nvidia m-a> might work. Installing directly from (ie. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia (
16:34<pasoev>but, I do not know, which envy version works in debian lenny
16:34<ed_debian>pasoev, do you have envy running?
16:34<ml|>pasoev: follow directions above
16:35<ed_debian>pasoev, Go to synaptic
16:35<ed_debian>pasoev, search envy
16:36<pasoev>I can`t find, which repositories I have to add?
16:36-!-shardz_ [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
16:37<pasoev>ed_debian: which repos I have to add?
16:37<andy>Sorry ml| - got called away -cheers for the advice. Yeah,aptitude was amongst the packages apt wanted to throw out ( & debi etc), I suppose I should wait, maybe it'll get sorted,I had the same thing with ffmpeg & it got sorted
16:37<ed_debian>pasoev, What do you say we try to do it without using envy?
16:37<ed_debian>pasoev, I believe that it is in the multimedia repos if you do want to find it
16:37<ml|>andy: use aptitude when upgrading
16:38-!-lucas_ [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
16:38<pasoev>ok, if you help :)
16:38<ed_debian>pasoev, " lenny"
16:38-!-txcx [mark@] has joined #debian
16:38<ml|>andy: and do safe-upgrade
16:39<ed_debian>pasoev, Which drivers have you got installed on your system? Which are you trying to use?
16:39<txcx>My system has been testing for long time, and I did upgradeand system keyboard didnt work in X
16:39<ml|>andy: also use the -s to simulate what aptitude will do
16:39<andy>ml|, is it superior to synaptic in some way(I used to use Dselect )
16:39<ml|>andy: yes
16:39<txcx>So I removed xkb-data as suggested in bug report.
16:39<ml|>!why aptitude
16:39<dpkg>aptitude has more advanced conflict/dependency resolution than other tools, it has far more advanced searching available, and will automatically uninstall unneeded dependencies, read /usr/share/doc/aptitude/README for more info. Aptitude can also remove or purge one package at the same time as installing others all from the command line, making it much easier to recover from broken dependencies.
16:39-!-catap [] has joined #debian
16:40<pasoev>I do not know, I was using Ubuntu,
16:40<txcx>So my big question should I do dist-upgrade or change sources.list to lenny?
16:40<jrabbit>You do both
16:40<pasoev>and I had to choose which driver to use
16:40<ml|>pasoev: this is not ubuntu
16:40<ed_debian>pasoev, Ok here is everything I know about drivers. I have an ati card so I have gone through something similar
16:40<corge>any good US repository alternatives to mine is completely bottoming out on speed with that one server added to my sources
16:41<txcx>Is there any danger in apt-get install dist-upgrade?
16:41<corge>just do: aptitude dist-upgrade
16:41<corge>no install command
16:41<txcx>Aptitude is hosed.
16:41<txcx>X is hosed
16:41<corge>sorry, just joined
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16:41<corge>then just apt-get dist-upgrade should work
16:41<ed_debian>pasoev, you install packages to get different drivers. ATI has the fglrx driver which is in the xserver-xorg-video-radeon package and there is an open source driver called "ati" in the same package
16:42-!-tomv [] has joined #debian
16:42<ed_debian>to use one driver instead of another after the packages have been installed you use modprobe
16:42<pasoev>I have nvidia
16:42<txcx>Is there any downside to apt-get dist-upgrade?
16:42-!-tomv is now known as Guest1007
16:42<ed_debian>pasoev, yeah I know but the principle is the same
16:43<ed_debian>pasoev, I would use modprobe fglrx to use that driver and modprobe -r fglrx to remove it
16:43<Guest1007>hi. before I file the bug report, could someone verify whether pstoedit/amd64 segfaults when called with no parameters?
16:43<corge>no, not really...but it should upgrade everything that would have updates to them
16:43<txcx>I don't understand how my system got so scrambled it should be all well known hardware.
16:43<Guest1007>that's on sid.
16:43<corge>txcx, have you tried removing and reinstalling aptitude?
16:43<ed_debian>pasoev, check out that link that whoever it was posted earlier
16:43<corge>txcx: apt-get remove aptitude
16:43<ed_debian>use "lsmod" to view all the modules you are using
16:44<andy>ml|, Interesting, I've had no big problems with synaptic, its fairly slick IMHO, but I shall give aptitude another go - the un-needed dependency thing sounds good, thanks
16:44<pasoev>I tryed, but I can`t
16:44<corge>let it remove everything associated with it and then, : apt-get install aptitude
16:44<ed_debian>pasoev, Sorry I couldn't be more help but that is pretty much everything I know
16:44<ml|>andy: np man aptitude for more info
16:45<pasoev>ed_debian: OK, thank anyway.
16:45<ed_debian>pasoev, Also you can use glxgears to benchmark how well that driver works
16:45<ed_debian>pasoev, yep
16:45<ed_debian>pasoev, good luck
16:45<corge>txcx, did that work?
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16:46<corge>any ideas on why my access to repository would be so slow?
16:46<ml|>andy: by reading the msg from synaptic safe you what some others are going thru atm
16:46<corge>seems to be the only repository i have issues with
16:48<txcx>So others have trouble having trouble with aptitude?
16:48<ml|>corge: maybe temporary thing with server
16:48<andy>ml|, I'd like to say also that I haven't visited #debian for must be a couple of years and it seems to have changed for the better, less aggressive certainly :)
16:49<txcx>Anyway is apt-get dist-upgrade safe?
16:49<gravity>ed_debian: glxgears is not a benchmark
16:49<corge>should be txcx, yes
16:49<corge>try it
16:49<corge>you probably won't be any worse off than you are now for sure
16:49<gravity>Not a meaningful one anyway
16:49<ml|>andy: most peeps try to help without attitudes ;)
16:49<ed_debian>gravity, I was once instructed to use it loosely as one to see major changes
16:49<ed_debian>gravity, Is this a bad idea?
16:50<gravity>ed_debian: You can do that for major changes, but it's often uninformative for real problems.
16:50<gravity>ed_debian: You're usually better off just seeing if DRI is enabled or not.
16:50<gravity>glxinfo | grep direct
16:50<bja>corge: Did you find a bottleneck on your connection to the repository?
16:50<ed_debian>gravity, Oh ok, thanks
16:51<corge>bja: no, not at all....all other repositories work fine...i narrowed it down to the repository
16:51<corge>once i comment out that line in my sources, everything is really fast
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16:51<andy>ml|:sure, but there used to be a lot more dick-waving :)
16:52<bja>corge: Great, now its just a matter of looking at it or replacing it with a mirror
16:52<bja>andy: watch your lang ladies arround
16:52<bja>andy: Although you are right
16:53<amphi>andy: perhaps you miss mwilson? ;)
16:53*gravity smirks
16:53<corge>that was my first question....i couldn't find a list of security mirrors, only other software mirrors
16:53<amphi>!be mwilson
16:53*Supaplex draws a thick mustash to go with gravitys' smirk
16:54<andy>amphi:sounds familiar
16:54<streuner>!forget be mwilson
16:54<dpkg>streuner: i didn't have anything called 'be mwilson' to forget
16:55<amphi>streuner: there appears to have been something of a stalinist purge WRT mwilson
16:55-!-magnetic [] has joined #debian
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16:55<txcx>I just ran upgrade and it wants to upgrade 72 packages.
16:55<amphi>there was never an mwilson
16:55<txcx>I did that this morning.
16:55<ml|>!be amphi
16:56<amphi>if I recall correctly there was once a 'be mwilson barbie' too
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16:56<streuner>amphi: its a cmd, i dont remember how to forget that bullshit
16:57<amphi>streuner: like I said, almost all references to mwilson seem to have been expunged
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17:08<Guest1009>hi there! can't install open office :( error message is not very helpful
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17:09<azeem>Guest1009: in these cases, try to apt-get install one of the mentioned packages directly
17:09-!-zeroXten [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:09<azeem>and so on, until you get the real error message
17:10<streuner>apt-get install <package> NOT only apt-get <package>
17:10<azeem>well, disregard the first two lines
17:11<streuner>hm, true
17:11<streuner>Guest203: what does "dpkg -l libc6 | tail -1" say?
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17:12<streuner>Guest1009: ^^^, and show us your sources.list in please
17:12<Guest1009>ii libc6 2.3.6.ds1-13etch7 GNU C Library: Shared libraries
17:12-!-Lethalman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:12<corge>you can just try "aptitude install"
17:12<Guest1009>where is the sources.list?
17:13<corge>in /etc/apt
17:13<corge>do "nano /etc/apt/sources.list"
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17:14<Guest1009>aptitude install is asking for the cd all the time....
17:14<corge>do you see a line in your sources.list that says cdrom?
17:15-!-erKURITA [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:15<corge>is there a reason why you're running current old stable release "etch" instead of current stable release "lenny"?
17:15<Guest1009>i used a old istall cd :D
17:15<Guest1009>i'm in ghana
17:16<Guest1009>internet is not to goood ;)
17:16<corge>put a # in front of the cdrom line that doesnt have it
17:16<amphi>Guest1009: is your connection fast enough to do a dist-upgrade?
17:16<corge>then do an aptitude update, then aptitude dist-upgrade if you can
17:16<azeem>Guest1009: so I guess the problem is that you don't have OpenOffice on your CDs
17:17<Guest1009>at the moment it is ....
17:17<azeem>corge: there's no regular etch line
17:17<azeem>Guest1009: it is what?
17:17-!-kfe [] has joined #debian
17:17<amphi>Guest1009: if not, perhaps you can buy a set of cds there? I had to do that a while back in .np, had them shipped from Mumbai
17:17<azeem>Guest1009: pastebin the output of "apt-get install"
17:18<Guest1009>i'm doing now aptitude update
17:18<txcx>Is it apt-get install xorg for the X?
17:18-!-kfe_ [] has joined #debian
17:18<corge>like KDE or Gnome?
17:19<corge>guest1009: you might consider adding "deb etch main contrib non-free" to your sources
17:19-!-Lethalman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:19<corge>i know it's not close to you, but the mirror speed is fast so you might have good luck with it
17:19-!-Digispirit [] has joined #debian
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17:19<txcx>Debian can really be inscrutable.
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17:20<azeem>Guest1009: yeah, it looks like your CDs just don't have all of the packages
17:20<azeem>Guest1009: you can try to add the etch repository to your sources.list, but it might drain a couple of MB over the internet
17:20<Guest1009>aptitude update finished
17:20<corge>well, aptitude update won't really work since you don't have a software repository in there
17:21<Guest1009>aptitude dist-upgrade started
17:21<corge>did you add the uchicago mirror?
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17:22<Guest1009>where do i add it? to sources.list?
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17:22<corge>i'm assuming here that they still have etch on their mirrors
17:22-!-txcx [mark@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:23<Guest1009>i want to do upgrade to lenny.... no reason for me to stick to etch... atm my internet is good
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17:24<Guest1009>is i do distroupdate this comes
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17:25<adama>Guest1009: after that is all done, reboot
17:25<adama>then upgrade again to contiune
17:25-!-kfe [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:25<corge>reboot and try again
17:25<john__>hello all
17:26<Guest1009>ok, give me some time
17:26<txc>X fixed itself, aptituded is still broken.
17:26<ml|>!hi john__
17:26<corge>txc: did you remove aptitude and reinstall?
17:26<Guest1009>i'll not add chicago to my sources.list for now
17:26<corge>txc: apt-get remove aptitude
17:26<txc>It removed itself somehow
17:26<Guest1009> You are attempting to install a kernel version that is the same as the ▒
17:26<Guest1009> │ version you are currently running (version 2.6.18-6-486).
17:26<Guest1009>this makes me wondering
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17:27<txc>I wonder how X fiixed itself
17:27<corge>txc: magic
17:27<txc>Apparently, I was just messing around with apt-get until it fixed itself.
17:27<corge>always nice huh
17:28<corge>have you tried reinstalling aptitude? apt-get install aptitude
17:28-!-Guest1009 [~chatzilla@] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox]]
17:28<txc>So do apt-get remove aptitude ?
17:28<corge>then install it again
17:28<ml|>yeah, nice side affect
17:28<john__>How do i install konqueror and dolphin in kde 4.2
17:28<corge>see what that does
17:28<txc>Not installed so not removed
17:28<dr|z3d>john__: aptitude install konqueror && aptitude install dolphin
17:29<john__>ok i will try that.
17:29<dr|z3d>or just aptitude install konqueror dolphin
17:29<corge>john, have you tried going to Synaptic Package Manager, or you can just do what dr|z3d just said as I had to remove my entire line
17:29<dr|z3d>Or you can use Synaptic if you want a gui.. indeed.
17:30<ml|>i'd use aptitude ;)
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17:30<txc>X works but all I have is bluish screen and cursor.
17:30-!-Glenn [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:31<corge>txc: are you using stable, testing, or experimental?
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17:31<adama>txc: I have the same problem on login. press Ctrl-Alt-F2, login as user, and type DISPLAY=:0 gnome-panel &
17:31<txc>all that?
17:31<adama>then back to Ctrl-Alt-F7 (or F8 for me for no reason)
17:32<adama>yeah I have to start nautilus, metackit, gnome-panel all manually
17:32<john__>it wonts to downgrade kde
17:32-!-user_ [~chatzilla@] has joined #debian
17:33<user_>back again....
17:33-!-brendan_ [] has quit [Quit: brendan_]
17:33<user_>i was client1009 before... or somethng like that
17:33-!-hsgkclif [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
17:33<user_>the etch guy ;)
17:33<corge>do /nick "something here"
17:33<corge>no quotes
17:34-!-user_ is now known as client1009
17:34<client1009>now, better :)
17:34<john__>Synaptic has both but like Aptitude it wonts to uninstall Kde 4.2 and install 3.5
17:34<corge>well, that works too i guess
17:34<corge>is 4.2 in testing tree?
17:34<corge>or in experimental?
17:34<client1009>so, now what?
17:35<txc>gnome-panel command not found
17:35<client1009>what is the command for distroupgrade again?
17:35<txc>I think I should do a dist-upgrade also
17:36<corge>client1009: try making your sources.list file look like
17:36<corge>anything with a # in front of it, you dont need
17:36<corge>so really you only need two lines
17:36<adama>txc: what desktop env. do you have? kde?
17:36<txc>I had gnome
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17:36<txc>Now I have nothing I guess
17:37<adama>looks like
17:37<adama>apt-get install gnome I guess
17:37<client1009>corge: but with this i would stay ith etch.
17:38<client1009>corge: i want lenny, this is the actual one
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17:38<corge>upgrading to lenny is fine, just replace "etch" with "lenny"....however, you're going to be upgrading an entire OS through your internet connection
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17:38<txc>OK thanks
17:39<txc>That is going to take some time.
17:39<client1009>corge: for now it's ok, cuz the internet connection is good for now
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17:39<TonyTone17>is there something wrong with lenny repositories
17:39<corge>tony: which repository? there are hundreds?
17:40<ml|>txc: since you have a few problems, wouldn't it be easier to backup data and do a fresh install?
17:40<corge>client1009: my sources.list has two lines "deb lenny main contrib non-free" and "deb lenny/updates main contrib non-free"
17:40<client1009>corge: why non-free?
17:41<corge>for programs that have no source with them, only binaries that they make
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17:42<corge>i believe software like ATI Video drivers are in the non-free area
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17:42<wferi>Hi! I've got two 8-port serial PCI boards, which result in /dev/ttyR[0-15] devices. Different kernels find the two boards in different orders, thus I need a persistent naming. I can match the PCI slot in udev rules, but not the port number, which is X modulo 8 for ttyRX. Do I really have to spawn an external program 16 times to evaluate this remainder?
17:42<gravity>Just fglrx. radeon and radeonhd are in main
17:43<client1009>corge: no i have this two lines only, everything else is commented
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17:43<corge>ok, save the file
17:43<john__>Thanks all i found it.
17:43<corge>do aptitude update
17:43-!-john__ [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:43<corge>then aptitude dist-upgrade and be prepared to go so something for a while
17:43<corge>that should get you going
17:44<corge>looks good
17:44<client1009>corge: i start
17:45-!-nosklo [~nosklo@] has quit [Quit: Saindo]
17:45<corge>i have to head out, see you all later
17:45<client1009>corge: see u
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17:46<txc>What does dist-upgrade do if you have been using testing alll along?
17:46<ml|>client1009: gl
17:46<ml|>txc: man aptitude
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17:47<client1009>ml|: thx
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18:02<jmpespxoreax>I just installed Lenny and am having problems with a WD7500AAKS - fdisk is reporting that it is 1056 kilobytes less than the capacity of other idential WD7500AAKS drives in my machine
18:02<jmpespxoreax>as a result, my mdadm array is degraded
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18:03<oxi>for debian vps hosting would you pick i386 or amd64 today?
18:03<oxi>if the vps doesn't need the 4gb memory addressing
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18:04<flexy>don't know about vps hosting. but I would choose amd64 anyday
18:04<jmpespxoreax>fdisk also shows that te cylinder, sectors/track, and units are all the same
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18:04<oxi>flexy: for what reason?
18:04-!-eraserhead [~t@] has quit [Quit: leaving]
18:05<flexy>oxi: because that's nowadays, and not history...
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18:05<oxi>flexy: to be furtureproof? or to go mainstream?
18:05-!-andy [] has joined #debian
18:05<oxi>flexy: ok
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18:05<oxi>couldn't I run into trouble with unsupported packages or whatsoever?
18:07<flexy>oxi: I would not run unsupportet packages. Or if I really needed to, I would compile them my self to /usr/local, and that's what I'm doing right now
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18:11<oxi>flexy: great, thanks for your advice!
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18:13<flexy>oxi: no problems. your welcome
18:13<helpmesadface> Can someone help me, i need to get 'cksfv' on my debian install, but apt-get doesn't find it?
18:13<flexy>if it helped...
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18:14<flexy>helpmesadface: 'aptitude search cksfv' finds it for me, I'm running testing....
18:15<flexy>so, don't know why it does not work for you?
18:15<helpmesadface>root@ks361755:/# aptitude search cksfv
18:15<locklace>judd versions cksfv
18:15<judd>locklace: cksfv -- etch: 1.3.5-1 sid: 1.3.14-1 squeeze: 1.3.14-1
18:15<flexy>what version are you running
18:16-!-andy [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:16<helpmesadface>not sure, how can i check?
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18:16<flexy>cat /etc/debian_version
18:17<flexy>hmmm. I get squeeze/sid. :)
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18:17<locklace>looks like that package skipped lenny for some reason
18:17<flexy>try: aptitude update; aptitude search cksfv
18:17<locklace>just download the .deb from squeeze/sid
18:18<flexy>or that
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18:19<helpmesadface>sorry, i'm a nub. What am i supposed to be doing with that information?
18:20<flexy>helpmesadface: aptitude -t squeeze install cksfv
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18:20<locklace>what's your architecture
18:20<helpmesadface>i686? i think, rings a bell?
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18:21<locklace>helpmesadface: download that, run dpkg -i on it
18:22<jzumo>is there a real postfix guru out there?
18:22<flexy>helpmesadface: aptitude install -t squeeze install cksfv
18:22<flexy>helpmesadface: aptitude install -t squeeze cksfv
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18:22<locklace>!tell jzumo about ask
18:23<flexy>jzumo: sure, keep on looking. :)
18:23<helpmesadface>downloaded at 13.1MB/s O.0
18:23<helpmesadface>okay, i think it's installed now
18:23<helpmesadface>will check
18:23<helpmesadface>yuy <3
18:24<jzumo>i installed postfix, dovecot and sasl
18:24<jzumo>i installed postfix, dovecot and sasl
18:24<jzumo>i can already recieive emails
18:25-!-txc [mark@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:25<jzumo>what means dovecot works, right?
18:26<jzumo>but when i try to send a mail via evolution (imap) it says that it was sent
18:26-!-Eurysilas [] has joined #debian
18:26<jzumo>but it wasnt :(
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18:27<jzumo>VAR/LOG/MAIL.LOG just adds a connect and disconnect line when i try to send a mail :(
18:28<helpmesadface>checking for GTK... no
18:28<helpmesadface>checking whether NLS is requested... yes
18:28<helpmesadface>checking for intltool >= 0.23... ./configure: line 25222: intltool-update: command not found
18:28<helpmesadface> found
18:28<helpmesadface>configure: error: Your intltool is too old. You need intltool 0.23 or later.
18:28-!-helpmesadface was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
18:28<jzumo>bzw its lenny
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18:28<helpmesadface>checking for intltool >= 0.23... ./configure: line 25222: intltool-update: command not found
18:28<helpmesadface> found
18:28<helpmesadface>configure: error: Your intltool is too old. You need intltool 0.23 or later.
18:28<helpmesadface>does this mean the install didn't happen?
18:29<flexy>helpmesadface: aptitude install -t squeeze intltool
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18:33<raah>ow seu godtodo vamus da uma
18:33<jzumo>flexy :)
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18:34<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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18:35<helpmesadface>ok i just installed the wrong version of transmission, how do i remove it? ):
18:35<helpmesadface>./configure --disable-gtk && make && make install
18:35<helpmesadface>i did that
18:36<flexy>helpmesadface: ??? can't know what have you done, but after make install I would suggest to make uninstall?
18:37<helpmesadface>./configure --disable-gtk && make && make uninstall?
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18:37<flexy>helpmesadface: on what source? if that's source behaving nicely, I'd try 'make uninstall'
18:37-!-wferi [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:38<helpmesadface>tar jxvf Transmission-1.6.tar.bz2
18:38<helpmesadface>cd Transmission-1.6
18:38<helpmesadface>./configure --disable-gtk && make && make install
18:38<helpmesadface>is what i did
18:38<helpmesadface>but now i want to remove it
18:38<flexy>I have not tried transmission from source, but once again, 'make uninstall'
18:39-!-dpkg [] has quit [Excess Flood]
18:39<helpmesadface>did it : )
18:39<helpmesadface>i'd buy you a beer flexy
18:39<flexy>nice, do you need a paypal account to transfer amount to get one beer? :D
18:39-!-sascha1978 [] has joined #debian
18:40<flexy>that would be the first :D
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18:41<jzumo>i'D buy to two ^^
18:41<jzumo>IF u would help me :P
18:41<helpmesadface>um i have no money in my paypal D:
18:41<helpmesadface>want a invite? ;D
18:41<locklace>helpmesadface: why are you installing things manually from source instead of using aptitude
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18:41<helpmesadface>because i need 1.06
18:41<locklace>helpmesadface: aptitude install transmission
18:42<helpmesadface>and aptitude would get the latest?
18:42<flexy> is something I've heard exactly once. so, I think, no thanks :)
18:42<locklace>judd versions transmission
18:42<judd>locklace: transmission -- etch: 0.6.1.dfsg-1 lenny: 1.22-1 sid: 1.34-1 sid: 1.40-5 squeeze: 1.51-1 sid: 1.52-1
18:42<helpmesadface>haha, and what sentance did you hear it in?
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18:47<jzumo>flexy come on :) i'll give you 10 eur if you can help me
18:47<jzumo>i guess its only some config lines
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18:47<hell_>GConf Error: Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, or you have stale NFS locks due to a system crash. See for information. (Details - 1: Failed to get connection to session: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or
18:47<hell_>the network connection was broken.)
18:47<hell_> are there a way to fix that error
18:47<flexy>jzumo: I'm really not familiar with email setups
18:48-!-Perseus_ [] has joined #debian
18:48<flexy>I've done only one setup, with trial and error method, can't really remember anything useful.
18:48<flexy>was using sendmail mainly
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18:48<jzumo>thats exactly my problem
18:48<jzumo>after os reload and change to lenny
18:49<jzumo>i dont know how i did it before :(
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18:49<flexy>I'm sure there is some one better to help you. I'm just guessing, googling and trying on ideas from google, if I begin with this...
18:49<jzumo>is there anyone familiar with postfix /sasl?
18:50<jzumo>ok, thanks :)
18:51<shamanix>damn my computer is old ;-)
18:52<locklace>jzumo: check your postfix and dovecot log files, i'm willing to bet one of them tells you exactly what's happening. also see for postfix
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18:53<locklace>jzumo: also try sending mail without dovecot to verify your postfix setup is working, there are about 29358791237419001923 simple ways to do this from your system
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18:57<jzumo>i was thinking dovecot has nothing to do with sending mails?
18:58<sney>email is silly because it uses different programs for sending and recieving
18:58<jzumo>yes :(
18:58<llimeht>sney: so does http and ftp and ...
18:58<sney>I once asked an old unix guru (complete with beard) why smtp had to be separate
18:58<enouf>email is silly .. period
18:58<jzumo>why is it so complicated
18:58<sney>he didn't have a good answer
18:58<enouf>jzumo: because the Sheeple allow SPAMMING
18:59<sney>ah yes, sheeple. one of those great words that you bust out if you want nobody to take you seriously again, ever
18:59*enouf recognizes a stereotypical sheeple response
19:00<jzumo>i dont even know what it means^^
19:00<locklace>jzumo: i meant without evolution
19:00<enouf>i meant with Chimpanzee
19:00<jzumo>ah you mean via telnet?
19:00<locklace>jzumo: not unless you really want to, mailx is sufficient
19:01<jzumo>ok i'll try mailx
19:01<jzumo>but mailx doesn have to bee on the server, has it?
19:02<locklace>yes, run it from the postfix host
19:02<jzumo>ah ok
19:02<jzumo>im away for 5 minutes, searching some weed
19:02<locklace>if that works, then your postfix setup is fine for outbound mail, and you can try the "telnet to port 25" thing from client->server to try sending mail that way
19:03<locklace>maybe you want to lay off the weed
19:03<jzumo>i already tried telnet
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19:03<locklace>just, you know, until you fix your mail problem
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19:03<locklace>so what happened with telnet
19:04<jzumo>530 5.7.0 Must issue a STARTTLS command first
19:05<jzumo>althrought i disabled tls_only in postfix config
19:05<locklace>right, because you have all the ssl/tls stuff in your config
19:05<locklace>did you then tell postfix to reload its config
19:05<jzumo>of course
19:05<jzumo>i restarted it
19:05<jzumo>not reloaded
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19:06<locklace>it may take changing more than just that one option to get out of ssl hell
19:06<jzumo>yeah looks like your right
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19:06<jzumo>well give me a moment
19:06<jzumo>i ll try to test telnet again
19:07<jzumo>ill tell you whats up
19:07<jzumo>thanks so far!
19:07<locklace>just have a close look through the master config file, it's probably straightforward
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19:07<sney>it would really be great if the free flash player plugin didn't suck so much
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19:11<abrotman>s/free //
19:12<sney>I mean relative to the non-free adobe one
19:12<sney>which works
19:12<sney>I'm all for free software but not when it's broken
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19:14<madAdam>Hello, i'm using wmaker and one have my programs has gone of the screen, could someone help me move it back down? >.<
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19:14<sney>been a long time since I used wmaker, but does alt-spacebar open the window options menu?
19:15<sney>if it does you should be able to arrowkey down to "move" and then arrowkey your window back into your desktop space
19:15<madAdam>Thank you :P
19:15<sney>it's happened to all of us
19:16<madAdam>And sometimes when I open like a tab thing
19:16<madAdam>It just shows the outline
19:17<madAdam>Switching workspaces seems to make it load
19:17<madAdam>Buttt seems a bit dodg
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19:17<sney>I think that's one of the reasons I stopped using wmaker
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19:19<madAdam>Oh :P
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19:21<Nazcafan>is it normal that last squeeze update proposes the removal of aptitude and synaptic?
19:22<jzumo>535 5.7.8 Error: authentication failed: bad protocol / cancel
19:23<jzumo>that what i get wenn i send "auth login N2NvZGluZy1lbWFpbAdjb2RpbmctZW1haWwA[..]"
19:23<jzumo>after the 250 dsn comand from server
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19:24<locklace>Nazcafan: welcome to the club
19:25<Nazcafan>locklace: I think I will refuse the update
19:25<locklace>Nazcafan: just stay with "aptitude safe-upgrade" for now
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19:26<Nazcafan>locklace: nice
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19:27<locklace>in general it's a good idea to use safe-upgrade, and then if a full-upgrade is needed, simulate it first with "aptitude -s full-upgrade" to see what would happen
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19:28<Nazcafan>I usually use apt,
19:28<locklace>!why aptitude
19:28<dpkg>aptitude has more advanced conflict/dependency resolution than other tools, it has far more advanced searching available, and will automatically uninstall unneeded dependencies, read /usr/share/doc/aptitude/README for more info. Aptitude can also remove or purge one package at the same time as installing others all from the command line, making it much easier to recover from broken dependencies.
19:28<Nazcafan>not a power user at all
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19:30<Nazcafan>locklace: I tried to use aptitude some time ago, but in order to solve a missing dependency, it proposed to uninstall glib, whereas apt proposed to uninstall the missing package
19:30<dsl>i am running dsl how can i change server to freenode
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19:31<locklace>not sure about that, but typically it will give you many options for resolution, if you don't like the first just move on to the next
19:31<locklace>dsl: "/server"
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19:32<Nazcafan>the first three ones were similar, as far as I remember, so I went back to apt, but I still have aptitude around, just in case
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19:35<jzumo>i think i got nearly to the problem
19:35<jzumo>testsaslauthd -u berhanie -p bigsecret
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19:36<jzumo>hm shit
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19:37<shamanix>how can I kill an app when both pkill and xkill fail?
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19:38<robertk>Have you tried killall -9 ?
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19:39<bja>shamanix: would kill suffice
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19:40<robertk>of course, but then you need the pid
19:40<robertk>kill -9 pid
19:40<shamanix>bja, just tried kill, still not working
19:40<robertk>killall -9 name_of_program
19:40<shamanix>kill -9 did the trick
19:40<robertk>If it is stuck in kernel then this won't work either
19:40<shamanix>I mean kill -9 PID did it
19:41<dr|z3d>sudo kill ?
19:41<robertk>so it worked?
19:41<shamanix>yeah, big thanx
19:41<robertk>great, you are welcome
19:42<shamanix>what does that -9 do that simple kill does not anyway?
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19:42<bja>shamanix: problem with kill -9 its you kill and the program doesn't have time to tidy things up with a normal kill it should
19:42<amphi>shamanix: sends a different signal; kill sends SIGTERM by default
19:42<sney>it terminates the program with extreme prejudice
19:42<amphi>kill -11 for extra fun ;)
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19:43<bja>shamanix: kill -9 is a signal that can't be ignored. I believe its also called SIGKILL
19:44<dpkg>sigkill are you sure you want to use kill -9? What's wrong with -15, -2 and -1? See
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19:46<bja>I the cavalry was on their way!
19:46<bja>knew ^
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19:47<Kebianizao>anyone has an idea on how route certain dns requests to a certain dns, specificly the dns requests for a certain domain
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19:48<shamanix>anyone tried compiling brasero under lenny? I get the following error: no package gstreamer-interfaces-0.10, gstreamer-plugins-base-0.10 found, problem is I pretty much have everything Gstreamer installed
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19:49<flexy>I'm using self installed nvidia drivers for my gpu. I would like to adjust gamma setting, is there a more generic way to do that, besides settings? I've tried xgamma -gamma n.n, but it does not work, atleast not without restarting X. Is there a way?
19:50<Kebianizao>too late for my, next day. Bye
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19:54<hell_>i remove file in tmp
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19:54<hell_>and now i took some error
19:54<hell_>Conf Error: Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, how can i fix that i am using debian squeeze
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20:03<sshinobi>Hi. I'm having an issue booting up Debian on a Eee pc. I'm using a mac to burn the dvd using an external dvd drive, then connecting the dvd drive to the eeepc via usb cord. I get to the bootloader and select the dvd drive, and it says it can't boot from it.
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20:05<sney>if you have a 1000HA make sure to follow the directions about using the backported 2.6.29 kernel, anything older and wireless will be extremely unstable
20:06<sshinobi>I'm running the 901 with an Atheros AR2425 card.
20:06<sney>might be ok then
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20:33<dpkg>< RichiH> stable is for masochist fetishists with serverphobia ;)
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22:30<lwljrw>hey. beryl or compiz?
22:34<amphi>beryl is long dead
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22:36<corge>compiz is the new hotness
22:37<R_YoYo_R>oh yes
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22:41<gravity>the new old new hotness
22:41-!-marcdm is now known as herbheart
22:41<rickbot>compiz-fusion isn't it?
22:42<R_YoYo_R>it can be
22:42<rickbot>all i know is it don't work on my system cuz the resolutions to big with the dual-head
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22:43<rickbot>and i'd rather not set two 19 inchers to 1024x768 :/
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22:43<R_YoYo_R>it works with pretty high resolution now
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22:44<rickbot>i think my video card is the problem
22:45<lwljrw>heh. now how do i start it.
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22:46<R_YoYo_R>depends really on what you installed
22:47<R_YoYo_R>fusion-icon puts an icon in the dock.
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22:47<lwljrw>is this something i can install via aptitude?
22:49<dpkg>Please search for things rather than just asking: 'apt-cache search regex'. Find which package owns a file: 'dpkg -S /bin/foo' or 'aptitude install apt-file; apt-file update; apt-file search foo'. Use or '/msg dpkg find filename' if you're already here. '/msg dpkg listkeys <thing>' to find factoids containing <thing>. See and ask me about <bot help>.
22:49<lwljrw>dpkg -i initiative.deb
22:49*dpkg installs initiative.deb into lwljrw's head with a bone saw and a few screws
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22:50<buddy>well, any sugesstions for a tool to browse kernel sources?
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22:51<Supaplex>keyboard, mouse, monitor, shell, pager.
22:52<buddy>Supaplex:the idea is good, anybetter?
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22:54<Supaplex>I'm pretty content with those options. I haven't ventured to use something else with bells and fancy knobs etc.
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23:01<buddy>sure,well,etags cscope ctags, which one is mostlly used?
23:01<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, popcon is the Debian Popularity contest, the basis for what packages appear on the first few CDs/DVDs etc (by rank). Install the popularity-contest package to participate. See the results at
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23:05<buddy>Supaplex,is popcon what i should to have?
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23:07<Supaplex>in your own words, what do you think popcon does to answer your "which one is mostlly used?" question?
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23:10<Supaplex>perhaps you can restate your question in case I do not understand.
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23:18<buddy>Supaplex:thank you, maybe i should ask if there are pros and cons to etags cscope ctags
23:19<Supaplex>having not used them, I have no clue.
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23:27<jmorris>HI, I have poked around a few hours and have a question. How can Debian be used without a network connection? GDM hangs for DNS as does Nautilus.
23:27<jmorris>btw, I installed both 4.0 and 5.0.1 and both do the same thing.
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23:30<Supaplex>jmorris: sure. any nameservers in your /etc/resolv.conf? /etc/hosts should have localhost at least.
23:30<Supaplex>and the lo interface should be up.
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23:31<jmorris>Yup, hosts looks good. It has localhost and the name I gave the machine mapped to
23:32<jmorris>/etc/resolv.conf doesn't exist but /etc/resolvconf.d does
23:32<Supaplex>anything in the directory?
23:32<jmorris>It is freshly installed from the 5.0.1 DVD
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23:33<jmorris>Yes, one subdirectory with one file related to avahi
23:33<Supaplex>why on earth we need a resolvconf.d directory, I don't know. stupid .conf file is three or four lines on average.
23:33<Supaplex>run hostname. is it in /etc/hosts too?
23:34<jmorris>hostname works, host doesn't
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23:35<Supaplex>grep host /etc/nsswitch.conf
23:35<Supaplex>"files" should be the only thing you need.
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23:36<jmorris>/etc/nsswitch.conf says hosts: files mdns4_minimal .....
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23:36<jmorris>Well it is going to have occasional dialup access when deployed do it needs to know how to do dns eventually.
23:36<Supaplex>hummm wisdom tells me it's bad to remove mdns by hand.
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23:37<Supaplex>let's roll back a few steps. is the output from hostname, also in the hosts file?
23:37<jmorris>But spinning a minute and twenty seconds to get from username/password to a desktop is icky
23:37<jmorris>Yup, hostname works 100% as expected. host spins and fails.
23:38<jmorris>All I did in the installer was swap the default of 'debian' for another bare name without a domain
23:38<Supaplex>works as expected isn't what I was after. the command can run just fine with a misconfigured hosts file.
23:39<Supaplex>strace -e open hostname here only shows /etc/ and /lib/
23:39<jmorris>hostname returns the name, hostname -d returns nothing. hostname -i returns
23:40<Supaplex>hostname -f on the otherhand opens a lot more.
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23:40<jmorris>hotsname -f returns the name with no delay
23:40<Supaplex>humm okay.
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23:42<Supaplex>I'm kinda stumped. maybe strace will tell us what we already know, but it can't hurt to test it both ways, and compare where the delay shows up at. use timestamps in your log file.
23:42<jmorris>I'm getting strace onto the machine now.
23:43<Supaplex>it's safe to use localdomain as the domain name, so that might be something else to consider. I don't think it'll make a difference though.
23:44<jmorris>strace -e open hostname -f opened up four libraries and four human readable files
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23:46<jmorris>for what its worth /etc/host.conf has a line I added earlier, "order files,bind"
23:47<jmorris>For whatever reason hostname works and host doesn't. Whatever GDM and Nautilus use is apparently whatever host uses and thus doesn't work.
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23:48<pasoev>Hello all, please, anyone help me, I have installed ntfs 3g, but I still can`t mount ntfs partitions, ehy?
23:48<Supaplex>interesting. strace -e open host `hostname -f`
23:49<Supaplex>pasoev: grep ntfs /proc/filesystems
23:49<pasoev>only this command?
23:50<Supaplex>pasoev: is ntfs-3g listed?
23:50<pasoev>Supaplex: no.
23:50<pasoev>sergi@sergi-desktop:~$ grep ntfs /proc/filesystems
23:51<Supaplex>what's mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/source /mount-point do? (last two values are not literal)
23:51<jmorris>It gets a file not found opening /etc/resolv.conf then sits and spins a bit, then gives an error about being unable to contact any name servers.
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23:52<pasoev>I have to mount sda1 partition,
23:53<Supaplex>mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sda1 /mnt
23:53<pasoev>Invalid mount option when attempting to mount the volume 'Documents'.
23:54<sney>ntfs-3g was a binary application last time I used it
23:54<dpkg>ntfs-3g is probably a user-space NTFS driver with write support and good performance. It is available in Lenny, or through for Etch (ask me about <> for instructions and see Usage examples: Ask me about <user accessible ntfs>.
23:55<Supaplex>pasoev: what release are you running?
23:55<pasoev> mount failed: Device or resource busy
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23:55<pasoev>Debian lenny
23:55<Supaplex>pasoev: egrep '(sda1|/mnt) /proc/mounts
23:55<Supaplex>er 1m
23:55<Supaplex>pasoev: egrep '(sda1|/mnt)' /proc/mounts
23:57<pasoev>"/dev/sda1 /mnt fuseblk rw,user_id=0,group_id=0,allow_other,blksize=4096 0 0" is it what I had to say?
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23:57<Supaplex>it appears to be mounted.
23:58<Supaplex>df -h /mnt
23:59<jmorris>pasoev: Yup, I'd say the "Invalid mount option" was just the mount command fussing about some default, sort of like when you manually mount a cd and don't bother saying -o ro.
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---Logclosed Thu May 07 00:00:10 2009