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#debian IRC Logs for 2009-05-25

---Logopened Mon May 25 00:00:13 2009
00:02<ml|>wohdfoh: are you on lenny? i did a aptitude -s install cinelerra and all goes fine here, i'm on squeeze tho
00:02<wohdfoh>i'm on lenny
00:02<wohdfoh>what's -s
00:02<ml|>-s simulate
00:03-!-CowboyPride [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:03<wohdfoh>still get the same
00:03<ml|>what did tell aptitude to do no yes or quit
00:04<valdyn>wohdfoh: virtual packages cannot be resolved automagically
00:05<s0ckz>i installed lilo for the first time, and it said run /sbin/lilo after i go through the installation. I was done with the installation, and i went to run /sbin/lilo and it gave me a fatal error. What do i do?
00:06<simNIX>modify lilo.conf to be correct I would think - but very long time since ive configured lilo
00:06<s0ckz>i looked for lilo.conf
00:06<simNIX>maybe you could pastebin eror ?
00:06<s0ckz>but there is none
00:06<s0ckz>that is the error...
00:06<simNIX>clear solution then = create one ?
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00:07<valdyn>why are you messing with lilo at all?
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00:11<s0ckz>cuz i am installing a new kernel
00:11-!-mode/#debian [+l 385] by debhelper
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00:11<valdyn>that doesnt make sense
00:11<valdyn>you should already have a boot manager
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00:11<s0ckz>well idfk which one it is, and this guide im using specifies lilo
00:11<s0ckz>so im just using that one
00:11<valdyn>which means that lilo is either already configured properly or you have grub and shouldnt mess with lilo
00:13<shamanix>lilo is old and outdated
00:13<s0ckz>but i dont fuckin see grub anywhere either.. -_-
00:13<wohdfoh>nm. prob with srcs
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00:14<eightyeight>probably because you removed it when you install lilo
00:14<eightyeight>reinstall grub
00:14<valdyn>installing lilo doesnt remvoe grub
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00:15<hodgkin>in the virtual desktop in gnome, how do you make it contiguous so that you can move freely between each desktop and drag stuff freely
00:15<jrabbit>you could of wiped the MBR.
00:15<s0ckz>ok well anyways
00:15<s0ckz>under what is it that i can edit grub to boot my new kernel?
00:16<valdyn>s0ckz: /boot/grub/menu.lst
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00:17<s0ckz>why is nothing ever under /boot when i check.. :'(
00:17<ml|>when instaling a new kernel, doesn't grub get update
00:17<s0ckz>there nothing related to grub in there
00:17<s0ckz>and bzImage
00:17<eightyeight>aptitude install grub
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00:18<valdyn>that doesnt make sense
00:18<valdyn>he alerady must have a boot manager
00:18-!-user [] has quit []
00:18<valdyn>he needs to stick to whatever he has
00:18<s0ckz>Maybe i do, but i dont see jack squat
00:18<valdyn>because if debian installed lilo then he cannot use grub at all
00:18<s0ckz>i dont see lilo nor grub
00:19<eightyeight>s0ckz: dpkg -l lilo grub
00:20<s0ckz>then what?
00:20<s0ckz>cuz it gave me some stuff
00:20<s0ckz>| Status=Not/Inst/Cfg-files/Unpacked/Failed-cfg/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
00:20<s0ckz>|/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
00:20<eightyeight>ii grub
00:20<eightyeight>un lilo
00:20<s0ckz>say what?
00:21<eightyeight>the last two lines
00:21<s0ckz>what about them..
00:21<eightyeight>what are they
00:21<eightyeight>is it really this hard?
00:22<s0ckz>its ii grub and rc lilo
00:22<jrabbit>can you reinstall grub then?
00:23<s0ckz>i guess..
00:23<s0ckz>but it said its already installed.
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00:23<eightyeight>it's not installed if the files are missing
00:24<eightyeight>aptitude reinstall grub
00:24-!-hodgkin [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:24<s0ckz>did that
00:24<s0ckz>now how do i edit grub?
00:25<eightyeight>you should have a grub/ dir in /boot now
00:25<s0ckz>thats funny..
00:25<s0ckz>cuz i DONT
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00:25<s0ckz>For some reason i dont think this should be this hard.. i think someonesplaying a dirty fecking trick
00:26<s0ckz>But im completely serious. Just did all that stuff and theres still nothing under /boot
00:26<s0ckz>Would this being on a vps have anything to do with it??
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00:28<s0ckz>oh wow
00:28<s0ckz>fuck me sideways
00:29<s0ckz>wait.. is there a way to reboot the system through the cmd line?
00:29<s0ckz>oh thats cute
00:30<s0ckz>oh this is fuckin stupid
00:30<s0ckz>how am i supposed to choose which kernel to use if i cant even see the choices -_-
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00:32<s0ckz>how out of date is 2.6.18-92 ???
00:33-!-LoRez [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:33<dr|z3d>It' not current.
00:34<dr|z3d>2.6 is good, though.
00:34<dr|z3d>2.6.30 is what's currently bleeding edge.
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00:35<s0ckz>does it still work to use apt-get install kernel-image ??
00:35<dr|z3d>Should be fine, sure.
00:35<s0ckz>well.. where would i be able to find a list of those images?
00:36<dr|z3d>apt-cache search linux-kernel
00:36<dr|z3d>That'll give you an idea of what's about.
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00:37<s0ckz>should i install ketchup?
00:38<dr|z3d>Nfi. What is it?
00:38<s0ckz>update utility for linux-kernel sources
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00:38<dr|z3d>Certainly can't hurt.
00:39<s0ckz>would you possibly know how to start it?
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00:45<s0ckz>nothing on ketchup?
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00:46<dr|z3d>s0ckz: try man ketchup
00:46<dr|z3d>Or ketchup --help
00:50-!-Golfgeo [~ice@] has joined #debian
00:50<Golfgeo>Hi all
00:51<Golfgeo>Anyone know how I can input an o with a flat - on top?
00:51<eightyeight>unicode is one way
00:51<s0ckz>sry just thought that was funny
00:51<Golfgeo>Looked at altcodes, but couldn't find the right one
00:53<shamanix>kcharmap, or change the keyboard layout to something that has that character
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00:53<Golfgeo>looked it up on wikipedia, but that doesn't solve my problem. If I copy it from a website to my office it does show up, but when I try to recreate it via any other means it doesn't
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00:54<Golfgeo>shamanix: Was thinking about that, but when I work at school I also must be able to use it easily
00:55<s0ckz>If im updating the kernel, what directory would i specify to update?
00:55<s0ckz>/usr/src ??
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00:59<dr|z3d>s0ckz: What's your issue with downloading existing pre-compiled kernels? Might save you a headache or 2..
00:59<s0ckz>I dont even know what those are.. so thats a headache for starters lol.
01:00<dr|z3d>Debian comes with kernel images available as binaries. No need to compile.
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01:00<s0ckz>Heres a question you could probobly answer easily for me.
01:00<s0ckz>How the hell do i update my current kernel?
01:00<s0ckz>like, you have a tutorial or something i could follow?
01:01<s0ckz>Because im so frustrated its actually becoming a joke.
01:01<dr|z3d>What version of Debian are you running?
01:02<s0ckz>i think thas what it said
01:02<dr|z3d>Ok. Well, in the normal scheme of things, your kernel should be updated regularly enough. When do you last perform an aptitude update && aptitude full-upgrade?
01:02<s0ckz>i never did
01:02<s0ckz>this is a new vps
01:02<dr|z3d>Then it's high time you did!
01:02<s0ckz>and the kernel is 2.6.18
01:03<s0ckz>well no shit lol.. thats why im here
01:03<s0ckz>because my provider is a duesche
01:03<dr|z3d>so. from a console as root: aptitude update && aptitude full-upgrade
01:04<s0ckz>Hey btw
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01:04<s0ckz>all this aptitude stuff
01:04<s0ckz>Does explain more about it cuz i wanna read up on it
01:04<ml|>dpkg: tell s0ckz about aptitude
01:04<ml|>dpkg: tell s0ckz about why aptitude
01:04<dr|z3d>aptitude is well documented. For a start, try man aptitude
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01:05<ml|>s0ckz: also man aptitude or /usr/share/doc/aptitude/
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01:06<s0ckz>do i need to reboot to see changes?? or what
01:06<dr|z3d>Nothing major you need to know about aptitude.. it's preferred to apt-get, it's a console based package manager, and it doesn't have moo cow powers.
01:06<s0ckz>do i need to reboot to see changes?? or what
01:06<s0ckz>or should it already tell me that ive got the new version
01:07<dr|z3d>If you run those commands I gave you, you'll be told what's being updated before you commit to updating it.
01:07<s0ckz>if i did uname -a would it say the new version?
01:07<s0ckz>well then it didnt work
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01:07<s0ckz>cuz i still have the same version
01:07<dr|z3d>Should do. Also lsb_release -a will work.
01:08<dr|z3d>Did you perform an update and then upgrade?
01:08<ml|>you did full-upgrade?
01:08<s0ckz>just like you had it
01:08<dr|z3d>aptitude update && aptitude full-upgrade ?
01:08<eightyeight>uname -a won't show the new kernel version until after a reboot
01:08<ml|>well you have a new kernel then, i would reboot
01:08<dr|z3d>Any new packages come down?
01:08<eightyeight>you need to boot into the kernel
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01:09<llamabot>hey guys i'm looking for a way to see what disks are hooker up to my sata drive i know 'ls /dev/sd*' but its not listing a drive that is hooked up and wanted to see why
01:09<dr|z3d>If you have a new kernel, aptitude should have told you about it.
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01:09<ml|>dr|z3d: right, maybe he didn't notice
01:09<dr|z3d>llamabot: Easy overview: gparted
01:10<dr|z3d>ml|: True. Wouldn't surprise me!
01:10<eightyeight>llamabot: not listed in 'fdisk -l' or 'dmidecode'?
01:10<s0ckz>i still have same vers
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01:10<s0ckz>and also
01:10<s0ckz>it said
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01:10<ml|>s0ckz: you can vim /var/log/aptitude
01:10<s0ckz>Current Status: No new updates
01:11<llamabot>thanks guys
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01:12<s0ckz>this is really fuckin stupid.
01:12<s0ckz>clearly i have 2.6.18
01:12<s0ckz>and it still says no new updates
01:12<dr|z3d>s0ckz: let's try something else.
01:12<s0ckz>what the shit is up with this god damn machine
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01:13<dr|z3d>s0ckz: aptitude install startupmanager
01:13<s0ckz>But seriously, all i get from this machine is errors. lol
01:13<dr|z3d>If you install that, it'll show you all available kernels.
01:13<dr|z3d>It will also allow you to lock the kernel to a specific version.
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01:13<dr|z3d>*available to your os (ie installed).
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01:14<eightyeight>uhm, are you apt sources pointing to the right repository?
01:15<s0ckz>alright dr|z3d
01:15<s0ckz>it installed
01:16<s0ckz>but not without a few errors here and there! ;D
01:16<s0ckz>piece of shit
01:16<dr|z3d>Ok. Load it up and see what kernels you've got installed, s0ckz
01:16<s0ckz>holy shit
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01:17<s0ckz>most errors ive ever seen
01:17<dr|z3d>I wonder if you've somehow managed to lock a previous kernel in place.
01:17<s0ckz>well regardless.. startupmanager is boned.
01:17<s0ckz>maddd shit just failed
01:17<s0ckz>and there was a segmentation fault
01:17<s0ckz>so ya
01:17<dr|z3d>Oh dear. Sounds like your system is a little hosed.
01:18<s0ckz>Seems that way
01:18<s0ckz>And i wonder how anyone expects to get shit done on these machines
01:18<dr|z3d>I'd personally try updating to the next Debian version.
01:18<s0ckz>i cant even install a simple gui on this shit
01:18<s0ckz>which is easy as hell
01:18<s0ckz>i somehow wind up having to update the kernel
01:18<s0ckz>which doesnt even work either
01:19<s0ckz>z3d, isnt debian-5.0.1 the latest?
01:20<cahoot>doesn't look like debian version is the problem
01:20<dr|z3d>Possibly not.. repositories might be worth verifying.
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01:21<s0ckz>oh shit, my bad. not supposed to use the enter key
01:21<dr|z3d>And yeah, 5.01 (Lenny) is current. So no sense in updating there.
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01:22<s0ckz>what do you think, if i downgraded to debian4 and tried all of this again??
01:22<dr|z3d>Squeeze is the dev version.
01:22<s0ckz>could that possibly work?
01:22<s0ckz>whys that?
01:22<dr|z3d>If anything, upgrade to Squeeze.
01:23<s0ckz>How do i upgrade?
01:23<dr|z3d>Dowgrading is not only hard to do, but really not worth the hassle.
01:23<s0ckz>Well actually, it wouldnt be that hard for me because my provider has it as an option. So i can just rebuild to debian4
01:23<ml|>dpkg: lenny->squeeze
01:23<dpkg>Remove any APT source specific to stable (such as volatile), then s/lenny/squeeze/ on your sources.list and then aptitude update && aptitude full-upgrade. But since there's only just been a stable release, expect squeeze to be a bumpy ride for a while. If you don't know what that means or why that would be, stick with lenny. Also ask me about <d-d-a>.
01:24<ml|>oops ment to tell sry
01:24<s0ckz>and soo how do i remove apt source?
01:25<dr|z3d>If you're running a gui, synaptic is the easiest way to go, if not, text editor.
01:25<ml|>edit /etc/apt/sources.list
01:25<ml|>and follow the above
01:26<dr|z3d>Haha. You think you're getting off that lightly, ml|? ;) Think again.
01:26*dr|z3d chuckles.
01:27<s0ckz>stop toying with my emotions pl0x
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01:29<s0ckz>It wont let me do anything
01:30<dr|z3d>Need to open that file as root.
01:30<ml|>what do mean
01:30<s0ckz>couldnt read list of package sources
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01:30<s0ckz>i r on root ;D
01:31<ml|>s0ckz: is this your box
01:31<dr|z3d>Couldn't read list of package sources sounds like your repositories are somehow hosed/non-existent.
01:31<dr|z3d>It's a VPS, ml|.
01:31<s0ckz>was i supposed to remove everything inside sources.list?
01:32<s0ckz>well theres my first problem
01:32*dr|z3d laughs.
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01:32<ml|>dpkg: tell s0ckz about lenny->squeeze
01:32<ml|>read that
01:32<s0ckz>i JUST did
01:32-!-uva [] has joined #debian
01:33<ml|>ok why did ask < s0ckz> was i supposed to remove everything inside sources.list?
01:33-!-x [~x@] has joined #debian
01:33<s0ckz>it said remove ANY apt source
01:33<s0ckz>and i only HAD two things in the file
01:33<s0ckz>so i just got rid of them
01:33<ml|>no read carefully
01:34<s0ckz>yaya i get it now
01:34<s0ckz>i screwed the pooch
01:34<eightyeight>s0ckz: dude, if you don't have any clue what you're doing on a debian vps, then why in the hell are you administrating one? just curious
01:34<s0ckz>Because i DO know what im doing theres just parts i havent delved into completely.. AND THIS IS ONE OF THEM.
01:34<eightyeight>why not download and install in a vm, learn the debian ways, _then_ start thinking about being an admin
01:35<s0ckz>Because thats what im doing right now.. with my fucking vps
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01:35<ml|>eightyeight has a good point and a fresh install good better at this point i think, but i guess try with squeeze cannot hurt
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01:36<eightyeight>ml|: yeah. he'd be better off backing up the data, doing a new install, and restoring his data
01:36<s0ckz>i have no data
01:36<s0ckz>its a new vps
01:36<s0ckz>nothing of interest
01:36<dr|z3d>He's learning on the hoof. VPS is a toy, currently, right, s0ckz?
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01:36<eightyeight>then make it easy on yourself. grab the latest iso, reboot, and install from scratch
01:36<dr|z3d>So no harm in experimenting and even breaking it.
01:37<s0ckz>but apprently to 88 im not good enough to own a vps to use as testing rofl
01:37<ml|>dr|z3d: true but that vps is not working right anyways
01:37<eightyeight>irc has tab completion
01:37<s0ckz>cuz im not a cocky smartass like him yet in debian
01:38<dr|z3d>s0ckz: He does have a point, but no sense in dwelling on it :)
01:38<s0ckz>Im not dwelling.
01:38<ml|>s0ckz: fresh install, and mess all you like
01:38<s0ckz>im already started rebuilding two minutes ago
01:38<ml|>try not to make same mistakes as before
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01:42<ml|>s0ckz: what distro do you normaly use?
01:43<s0ckz>but not like you guys do
01:44<s0ckz>i run irc servers on a shitload of debian vps'
01:44<ml|>what do you mean?
01:44<s0ckz>thats it
01:44<s0ckz>never went fully into the OS
01:44<s0ckz>just know the basics and commands etc..
01:44<elky>my goodness you have a foul mouth.
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01:45<s0ckz>thanks for that update
01:45<ml|>ah i see, would not hurt to do some reading up on debian ways
01:45<s0ckz>what ive been doing for the past 4 days
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01:46<s0ckz>im going to be running it as a standard OS so ive been learning a JUNKload about it. Which is why im even here in the first place.
01:46<ml|>dpkg: tell s0ckz about reference
01:46<ml|>ok, just suggesting
01:47<s0ckz>And thats why i appreciate that and the help ive been getting from around here.. even if it does come from people with bad attitudes.. *cough* 88 *cough*
01:50<eightyeight>it's unfortunate you took offense to an observation
01:50<s0ckz>that was no observation my freind
01:50<s0ckz>that would be defined as instagating
01:50<s0ckz>or instigating
01:50<s0ckz>or w/e
01:50<s0ckz>you get the point
01:55<s0ckz>Right, so ml|, i added s/lenny/squeeze/ to my sources.list and i just got a bunch of errors when running that aptitude commands
01:55<ml|>s0ckz: pastebin you sources.list
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01:56<s0ckz>i dont really need to lol
01:56<s0ckz> GNU nano 2.0.7 File: sources.list
01:56<s0ckz>deb lenny main contrib
01:56<s0ckz>deb lenny/updates main contrib
01:56-!-s0ckz was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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01:57<s0ckz>guess i do
01:57<ml|>dpkg: tell s0ckz about paste
01:57<s0ckz>i see in the topic
01:57<ml|>well lol
01:57<s0ckz>i just didnt notice it till now :p
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01:59*adb tho s0ckz is kind a bad troll
01:59<ml|> <-- that's all you need
01:59<s0ckz>suck it
02:00<s0ckz>you said that i needed s/lenny/squeeze somewhere
02:00<ml|>no you miss read
02:00<s0ckz>story of my life
02:00<adb>!ops s0ckz suck it
02:00<dpkg>Hydroxide, bob2, caphuso, dondelelcaro, doogie, eeyore-, ElectricElf, ):, helix, ljlane, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, Netsnipe, TML, walters, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Alife, Myon, Ganneff, Maulkin, weasel, zobel: adb complains about: s0ckz suck it
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02:01<s0ckz>thats sp cute
02:01<ml|>s/lenny/squeeze <--- means to sub squeeze for lenny
02:02<eightyeight>means to sub lenny for squeeze
02:02<ml|>right oops
02:02<s0ckz>Well can you specify as to where i need to type that in there?
02:02<ml|>good catch eightyeight
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02:03<s0ckz>alright screw it
02:04<enouf>no it doesn't
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02:04<enouf>s/lenny/squeeze/ means replace occurence of lenny with squeeze
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02:05<eightyeight>sub lenny for squeeze
02:05<eightyeight>yes. substitute the old text 'lenny' for the new text 'squeeze'
02:06<enouf>"subsitute lenny for squeeze" == replace occurence of squeeze with lenny
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02:06<enouf>shall we add a /g and go for the gold?
02:07<eightyeight>here. how about this? s/lenny/squeeze/ == 'search for the text 'lenny' and replace with the text 'sqeeze'?
02:07<eightyeight>happy? :)
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02:09<ml|>actually it's :%s/lenny/squeeze/gc :)
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02:10<eightyeight>gc? there's only 2 occurances? you need to confirm each kill?
02:11<ml|>just incase ;)
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02:13<s0ckz>should i really be getting any permission denied' if im root?
02:14<eightyeight>maybe. what are you trying to do?
02:14<s0ckz>im installing xfce4
02:14<s0ckz>and dev/mem is giving me permission denied responses
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02:15<eightyeight>what is the command you executed?
02:15<s0ckz>i didnt execute anything, it was giving me those responses as xfce4 was installing
02:16<eightyeight>what does the error message say exactly?
02:16<s0ckz>just permission denied
02:17<jm_>you'll soon learn its far more useful if you paste the entire thing on pastebin
02:17<s0ckz>i really cant tho
02:17<s0ckz>its long gone
02:17<eightyeight>i think he already learned that lesson
02:17<s0ckz>and yes,
02:17<s0ckz>i did learn that
02:17<ml|>no he has not ;)
02:17<s0ckz>Had 3 days worth of logs in this channel and i got kicked out two minutes ago :'(
02:18<s0ckz>ALL GONE
02:18<jm_>time to start using more useful IRC clients
02:18<s0ckz>why you dont like mirc ;D
02:19<ml|>irssi ftw
02:19<eightyeight>ml|: +1
02:19<ml|> :)
02:19<Geifmilk>happy birthday to me :)
02:20<ml|>dpkg: congratulate Geifmilk
02:20<dpkg>Yay Geifmilk, you did it!
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02:20<Geifmilk>ty :D
02:21<eightyeight>Geifmilk: how old?
02:21<Geifmilk>23 :=)
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02:23<ponky>Geifmilk: GB bro
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02:44<kakalto>having a little trouble running a new x session from within a first - permissions problem. Is there a particular group I should be in or something?
02:44<kakalto>command "startx -- :1"
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02:54<jm_>kakalto: what do you mean from within a first?
02:55<adb>kakalto: a new x session may be run only remote i.e. w/ xvnc will work on :1
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02:56<jm_>not really, uou can have many local sessions
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02:57<adb>oh ,
02:58<xjjk>are underscores allowed in usernames?
02:58<xjjk>Linux/system usernames, that is
02:58<xjjk>is it bad practice to have them?
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02:59<eightyeight>the shift modifier is generally avoided
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02:59<xjjk>eightyeight: other than that, any other reason?
02:59<SAN>hi, now i am installing xen server in my system. for these i need to enable the flag vmx in BIOS. how i can enable it in BIOS settings?
02:59<jm_>why would it be bad practice?
02:59<xjjk>jm_: adduser doesn't let me add usernames with an underscore
02:59<eightyeight>xjjk: no
02:59<xjjk>have to use --force-badname
03:00<eightyeight>why not a dash?
03:01<xjjk>eightyeight: I don't have a concrete reason but I feel as if that's going to bit me later...
03:01<jm_>xjjk: it probably has some stupid default regex to catch those
03:01<xjjk>jm_: it does apparently, just wondering why it did
03:01<jm_>xjjk: I would like to know that too
03:04<eightyeight>xjjk: the only reason i can think, is that not all applications will accept underscores as a valid character in usernames
03:04<kakalto>jm_: attempting to use the xgame script, which in summary, runs the "startx -- :1" command, which doesn't work
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03:05<kakalto>from inside X, I get "X: user not authorized to run the X server, aborting."
03:06<kakalto>from a vt, I get some other strange error that implies I don't have the permissions to be starting an x server.
03:06<jm_>kakalto: yes, you can't do that from X, you can only start it from a real console - see Xwrapper.config
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03:07<jm_>(by default that is)
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03:07<xjjk>eightyeight: BTW, I recall... I wanted to use the same usernames for MySQL
03:08<xjjk>which does not allow dashes for usernames
03:08<xjjk>I think...
03:08<xjjk>or database names
03:08<xjjk>one or the other
03:09<eightyeight>yeah. it's best to stick with ^[a-zA-Z0-9]$
03:10<kakalto>jm_: thanks
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03:29<kakalto>found a better way to do it, make kdm force a different x config on second session
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03:30<jm_>yeah that should allow you to select a differetn session etc.
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03:37<Supaplex>dpkg: ubuntu.iso
03:37<dpkg>bugger all, i dunno, Supaplex
03:37<Supaplex>dpkg: ubuntu.iso is sed -i -e s/debian/ubuntu/ debian.iso ; mv debian.iso ubuntu.iso
03:37<dpkg>okay, Supaplex
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03:43<WildTurkey>what is a good apache alternative?
03:43<WildTurkey>i don't think i have enough ram to run apache
03:44<Supaplex>!start a web server war
03:44<Supaplex>try running less children/instances/etc
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03:46<kenyon>WildTurkey: how much ram do you have?
03:47<kenyon>also it depends on what kind of traffic you'll have and web apps you'll be running.
03:48<jm_>plenty of tiny web servers in debian if your needs are minimalistic
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03:49<kenyon>also depends on what else is running on the box.
03:49<WildTurkey>running ftp server, irc bnc, dns server
03:49<WildTurkey>not alot of traffic
03:50<shamanix>i dont know about apache, but one of those minimalist http servers will run just fine, I also have 256 ram so I know
03:50<kenyon>I'm running apache and vsftpd on a lenny box with 380 MB no problem
03:51<WildTurkey>maybe it's something with my config then
03:51<WildTurkey>let me grab the error it's giving me
03:51<WildTurkey>[Mon May 25 07:48:59 2009] [alert] (12)Cannot allocate memory: apr_thread_create: unable to create worker thread
03:52<kenyon>what do free or top say about the memory? is swap space being used a lot?
03:52<shamanix>are you using window managers, desktop environments, or some other ram hogs?
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03:52<WildTurkey>no sir
03:52<WildTurkey> total used free shared buffers cached
03:52<WildTurkey>Mem: 512 276 235 0 0 0
03:52<WildTurkey>-/+ buffers/cache: 276 235
03:52<WildTurkey>Swap: 0 0 0
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03:53<WildTurkey>it's 512mb burst
03:53<kenyon>you have no swap
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03:53<WildTurkey>it's a VPS
03:53<WildTurkey>probably why?
03:53<WildTurkey>is it possible to create one?
03:53<kenyon>suppose so, I haven't dealt with vps much
03:54<WildTurkey>me neither
03:54<shamanix>VPS? I'm not good with acronyms
03:54<WildTurkey>my first go around
03:54<WildTurkey>virtual private server
03:54<kenyon>still appears to be plenty of free memory
03:55<Supaplex>most vps won't let you manage swap
03:55<WildTurkey>i thought so myself
03:55<WildTurkey>i suppose i could open up a support ticket
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03:56<Supaplex>we double dog dare you to
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03:56<WildTurkey>[Mon May 25 07:56:08 2009] [alert] No active workers found... Apache is exiting!
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03:56<WildTurkey>i've tried cutting down the servers it starts too
03:57<kenyon>there are some google hits with that apr_thread_create error.
03:57<WildTurkey>i'll check into it
03:57<kenyon>relating to VPS specifically too
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03:58<WildTurkey>ahh i see that
03:58<WildTurkey>i should have just googled it in the first place
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03:59<WildTurkey>that seemed to work just fine
03:59<WildTurkey>and only used 10mb of ram
04:00<kenyon>installing prefork instead of worker or what?
04:00<WildTurkey>solved it for me
04:00<WildTurkey>and removed the worker thread
04:00<WildTurkey>if anyone else runs into the trouble
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04:05<fanto666>is it possible that a .postrm script is being called twice?
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04:06<fanto666>women? thank you ;-)
04:06<jm_>so yes it's possible
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04:08<fanto666>but not twice with "purge" argument
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04:12<WildTurkey>one more question for you about these virtualhost errors
04:12<WildTurkey>[warn] NameVirtualHost has no VirtualHosts
04:12<WildTurkey>i have the virtualhosts setup in each domain's file in the sites-available
04:12<WildTurkey>but it still bitches at me
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04:12<WildTurkey>what is that command to check apache's vhost config?
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04:13<kenyon>apache2ctl configtest maybe
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04:13<kenyon>oh nah that's just a syntax check
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04:14<fanto666>+ exec /usr/share/debconf/frontend /var/lib/dpkg/info/wwwoffle.postrm purge
04:15<fanto666>this seems to be run at the end of the postrm script...
04:17<jm_>that has been fixed, see #416613
04:17<jm_>is that what your bug is?
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04:20<fanto666>but the postrm script calls db_purge - can that call the postrm script again?
04:20<WildTurkey>i hate vhosts
04:20<fanto666>WildTurkey didn't you by any chance provide the same ip to NameVIrtualHost, once by a hostname, once by an IP?
04:20<gsimmons>WildTurkey: apache2ctl -S
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04:21<fanto666>... twice?
04:21<fanto666>eh... totally twice?
04:21<WildTurkey>i setup Listen <address>
04:21<WildTurkey>then i setup NameVirtualHost <address:80>
04:21<WildTurkey>and in the sites-available VirtualHost <address:80>
04:22<fanto666>isn't there any other config file being included?
04:22<WildTurkey>which specify's the listen address
04:22<fanto666>anything included from ports.conf?
04:23<WildTurkey>just the listen address's and the default SSL which i don't use
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04:23<jm_>I see nothing like that in wwwoffle postrm
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04:23<fanto666># Automatically added by dh_installdebconf
04:23<fanto666>if [ "$1" = purge ] && [ -e /usr/share/debconf/confmodule ]; then
04:23<fanto666> . /usr/share/debconf/confmodule
04:23<fanto666> db_purge
04:24<jm_>ahh no, that is dealing with debconf only AFAIK
04:25<WildTurkey>eh, i see what you're saying
04:25<WildTurkey>i took the "NameVirtualHost" out
04:25<WildTurkey>and syntax is OK
04:25<WildTurkey>but still not getting anything
04:25<WildTurkey>VirtualHost configuration:
04:25<fanto666>WildTurkey did you put the same string to NameVirtualHost as to VirtualHost ?
04:25<WildTurkey>Syntax OK
04:26<WildTurkey>yes, they matched
04:26<WildTurkey>but, on the NameVirtualHost do i use hostname or ip:port ?
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04:26<fanto666>WildTurkey you can use either one, but you should use it everywhere then
04:28<fanto666>WildTurkey is the VirtualHost in the same file? Isn't it disabled by <IfDef> etc?
04:30<fanto666>jm_ + exec /usr/share/debconf/frontend /var/lib/dpkg/info/wwwoffle.postrm purge
04:30<fanto666>in /usr/share/debconf/confmodule
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04:31<WildTurkey>fanto666: i'm stupid
04:32<WildTurkey>i will not tell you what i did.
04:32<fanto666>I take it as you fixed the problem :)
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04:33<WildTurkey>well, it's a start
04:33<WildTurkey>did not have the dir sites-available in the conf file
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04:34<jm_>fanto666: yes, but this is pretty standard
04:34<fanto666>jm_: but it really seams to executes the postrm script again
04:36<jm_>fanto666: how did you conclude thatr?
04:36-!-oageinsam [] has joined #debian
04:36<fanto666>"set -x" in that script
04:36-!-skandaleras [~luiz@] has joined #debian
04:36<fanto666>i was debugging the script to see why postrm always fails
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04:37<oageinsam>ho is the german debian channel ?
04:37<fanto666>failed on removing directory already removed, but it was only removed once in postrm
04:37<kenyon>!de | oageinsam
04:37<dpkg>deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in (auf, oder - German speaking users please go to (on, or
04:37<jm_>try DEBCONF_DEBUG=developer to see what is going on
04:38<oageinsam>thx @ all
04:38<fanto666>jm when? In the script or prior to purhing ?
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04:39<jm_>fanto666: well when you execute the problematic action
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04:42<Ryder>Ïðèâåò âñåì!
04:43<Ryder>Hi all!
04:43<fanto666>debconf (developer): frontend started
04:43<fanto666>debconf (developer): frontend running, package name is wwwoffle
04:43<fanto666>debconf (developer): starting /var/lib/dpkg/info/wwwoffle.postrm purge
04:43<WildTurkey>i think my VPS is fucking with me.
04:43<WildTurkey> does not work
04:43<Ryder>ho is russia?
04:43<WildTurkey>but does work
04:43<fanto666>WildTurkey aren't you behind NAT>
04:44<WildTurkey>(different IP's)
04:44<WildTurkey>i don't think it is
04:44<Ryder>WildTurkey, were are your from?
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04:44<WildTurkey>ptxl VPS servers
04:44<WildTurkey>i am from KY
04:44<Ryder>pls help me settings network in debian
04:45<Ryder>hu is russia?
04:45<dpkg>Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @
04:46<dpkg>Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @
04:47<jm_>fanto666: I think this is all normal, I suppose packages using debconf behave differently
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04:55<dpkg>hmm... fi is Finland, or the end of an if block, or an abreviation for in FIFO First In First Out, or /join #debian-fi
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04:56<dpkg>methinks ch is Switzerland, or and Confoederatio Helvetica
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05:03<fabiottini>hi i have upgrade my debian at squeeze but i have a problem with my mute button on keyboard... before upgrade i use it without problem... my pc is dell latitute d410 ... someone can help me?!?!
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05:19<ghantoos_>fabiottini: try to set it youself in: System -> Preferences -> Keyboard Shortcuts -> Volume mute
05:19<fabiottini>ok i try...
05:20<jm_>that sounds like it may be an ACPI thing
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05:21<fabiottini>no it dosn't work
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05:21<fabiottini>in keyboard shorcuts i set the button but nothing change
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05:21<stuckey>!svn repository
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05:22<fanto666>jm_: well, submitted to bug report
05:22<stuckey>If something is in the svn repository does that mean I can install it on my system?
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05:24<fanto666>stuckey no
05:24<stuckey>What's the svn repository?
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05:25<dpkg>well, ch is Switzerland or Confoederatio Helvetica. There is also a Swiss Debian Association: which lives in . See also on Freenode.
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05:25<fabiottini>no i don't understand " I can install it on my system? "
05:25<stuckey>well is it a repository, like the lenny stable repository
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05:25<fabiottini>sorry but this is my first time that i use #debian
05:25<stuckey>I don't know what svn is.
05:26<fabiottini>a ok
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05:27<fabiottini>fanto666 how i submitted to bug report?
05:27<fanto666>stuckey have you tried google svn ?
05:28<fanto666>fabiottini: I've commented other problem
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05:29<jm_>fanto666: yeah it does look like package's postrm should handle this properly
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05:38<Guest17>Hi! Concerning the kernel compiling, is there a way to make a kernel for "all" hardware? like for being able to use the system on a variety of different hardware?
05:39<Guest17>or is there even an image containing it?
05:39<OdyX>Guest17: no
05:40<jm_>Guest115: debian kernels are like that
05:40<fanto666>Guest17 what do you mean "all" hardware?
05:40<OdyX>Then you have different "arches" with different compilation sets (linux kernel, glibc, all apps…)
05:40<fanto666>all architectures?
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05:41<fanto666>or all processors of one architecture?
05:41<Guest17>no, i386_64, but to have the kernel load all modules
05:41<fanto666>guest17 load all modules? why? auch kernel would be an oversized bloat,
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05:42<OdyX>Guest17: Debian kernels build all supported modules as modules
05:42<OdyX>which get magically loaded when and where needed
05:42<Guest17>my problem is actually a server migration to newer hardware on etch. i copied all the files to the new machine, grub is working, but the system hangs IMHO because of initramfs or so
05:43<dpkg>The Debian Live project provides pre-built Debian live system images and allows creation of your own. #debian-live on OFTC (
05:43<jm_>initramfs should include all modules needed to boot your hardware
05:44<fanto666>I think he could call update-initramfs on the src system prior to copying it
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06:01<stuckey>Anyone know why Freecraft isn't in Lenny? I built it from source and installed it but It says "segmentation fault" when I run it.
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06:05<kooll>stuckey: that may be a reason. unstable code. The other reason I can think of is that it requires non-free data to run, iirc
06:05<avu>stuckey, wasn't there some kind of legal problem with freecraft?
06:05<avu>at least I seem to remember something like that
06:06<kooll>well, it was in etch, though
06:06<avu>legal problems usually start existing at some point :)
06:06<avu>they're not constants in time
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06:06<stuckey>And it's called *free*craft
06:06<jm_>stuckey: check page for it
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06:07<avu>ah, seems ilke it was the instability though
06:07<stuckey>Anyone know of another similar game that's in stable?
06:07<kooll>actually, it may be a simpler case : not maintained actively
06:08<avu>also, it's no longer maintened, yes
06:08<avu>which was uncovered by this crash :)
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06:36<matt7676>After "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" and reboot I get "Out Of Memory" errors. The kernel was not updated. "Out Of Memory" errors occur both in runlevel 1 and runlevel 2. OOM should kill the troublemaking process, but it kills instead "sh" and "modprobe", but the process which takes up all the memory is still running and basicaaly I can do nothing with this machine. Any ideas?
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06:39<locklace>matt7676: one idea is to boot with init=/bin/sh and start manually running the start scripts in rcS.d until things break
06:39<jm_>matt7676: oom killer is not that smart
06:40<locklace>wondering if this could be the alsa/modprobe loop thing that other guy ran into a little while ago
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06:41<jm_>yes might be - one of the modprobes used a lot of memory in his case
06:41<locklace>what was the root cause and fix there?
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06:42<jm_>let me finish my troglodyte pan favourite food and i'll look
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06:42<locklace>!beer jm_
06:42*dpkg pulls out a tasty Yuengling Lager for jm_
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06:45<matt7676>locklace: I have seen no output refering to ALSA, but it is a some sort of loop for sure.
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06:52<locklace>wow, for a minute there i thought m-i-t was being maintained by ulrich drepper.
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06:54<matt7676>locklace: isn't booting to "kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.18-5-686 root=/dev/hdb2 ro single" same as booting to "kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.18-5-686 root=/dev/hdb2 ro init=/bin/sh" ?
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06:55<locklace>matt7676: but i really think you should look at the link jm_ posted
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06:57<locklace>i will remember how to find this one now: it's the first search hit for "forking modprobe"
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07:07<matt7676>jm_: thank's for this link. My problem is rather similar, but it seems to be connected with "ts: compaq touchscreen protocol output". I mean if I try to normally boot my system to runlevel 2, then output to the screen pauses at "ts: compaq touchscreen protocol output" and then it shows those "Out Of Memory" errors.
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07:08<matt7676>However, I don't use any touchscreen device. I use Samsung 750s CRT monitor
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07:09<locklace>ok, well you can try the init=/bin/bash thing and see which init script is triggering the problem
07:09<locklace>this is an etch system i guess, from the kernel version
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07:13<jm_>matt7676: are you even using this version of module-init-tools?
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07:19<matt7676>locklace: yes, it's a etch system. However, could you explain what is this "init=/bin/bash" mode?
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07:20<kooll>matt7676: instead of starting init, then the programs mentionned in the various init scripts, the kernel will launch bash, as a root process
07:20<Aleric>Can I force an install with dpkg, even though the dependencies are broken?
07:20<kooll>matt7676: which means, among other things, no login needed
07:20<jm_>Aleric: sure, but do you want to?
07:21<matt7676>jm_: I am using 3.7-pre9-1(for some reason "dpkg --info module-init-tools" says "failed to archive ' module-init-tools': No such file or directory", but "dpkg -l | grep module-init-tools" gives "ii module-init-tools 3.7-pre9-1")
07:21<jm_>matt7676: right, that's the one
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07:24<locklace>now the next question, why do you have that version when the current etch version is 3.3-pre4-2
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07:28<matt7676>locklace: I have "deb testing main non-free contrib" line in my sources.list file. Maybe it has something to do with it?
07:28<locklace>uh, yeah
07:28<locklace>welcome to squeeze.
07:29<matt7676>locklace: :D
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08:01<user_>I am trying to use gparted to resize a partition on a matrix raid
08:01<user_>but gparted don't see any partition
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08:02<user_>what can i do?
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08:04<user_>is there some package that will show it the matrix raid?
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08:08<locsmif_lap>user_: hardware raid maybe, some proprietary software raid, no
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08:08<locsmif_lap>well, difficult or unlikely
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08:11<user_>locsmif_lap, it is software raid kindof
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08:11<user_>locsmif_lap, I know mdraid is supposed to integrate it some day...
08:11<user_>I meant dmraid
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08:12<user_>but as it is now it is raid1 so
08:13<user_>it is just figuring out the MBR
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08:19<dpkg>i heard raid-resizing is at
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08:21<user_>locsmif_lap, thanks but that is linux normal softare raid
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08:25<matt7676>jm_: is there a possibility to downgrade module-init-tools package without network access? Or what if I just do "dpkg --purge module-init-tools"?
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08:27<jm_>matt7676: sure, copy the package to the host somehow, use dpkg -i to install it
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08:37<steffan>Bit of a weird question, but my Terminal has Text/Bold Text set to 'black', but when I log in-to my server as a regular user 'user@server' is displayed in 'green'. (It doesn't do this for root@server) -- Is this debian?
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08:38<mircredi>salut !
08:39<jm_>it might just be how your prompt is configured
08:39<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr sur French users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr on
08:39<mircredi>thanks :)
08:39<steffan>jm_: Anyway to change it so it just uses black? (Is this client or server side? Afaik, client-side is set to 'black')
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08:42<jm_>steffan: why don't you check what it's seto to then? echo $PS1
08:43<jm_>set to
08:44<steffan>jm_: ${debian_chroot:+($debian_chroot)}\[\033[01;32m\]\u@\h\[\033[00m\]:\[\033[01;34m\]\w\[\033[00m\]\$
08:44<steffan>jm_: So it's default by Debian?
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08:45<steffan>jm_: Aparently there is a that you can use to change it. I guess you could just do it manually though, I only want black. (looking at
08:45<jm_>steffan: yes, this is the debian default for bash
08:45<pi_>guys, what is mysql-client package for?
08:46<jm_>steffan: you can just set your own in bash startup files yes
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08:46<steffan>jm_: I will look at that, thank you
08:47<jm_>steffan: edit your .bashrc, set color_prompt to no just before that if
08:48<steffan>jm_: Making it black, I'm guessing?
08:50<jeremiah>pi_: It connects to a mysql server.
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08:50<steffan>jm_: Would commeting the lines under 'case "$TERM" in' remove colours?
08:50<jm_>steffan: well it will be printed in default colours for you
08:50<pi_>jeremiah, do i need it to run (l)amp?
08:51<pi_>or mysql-server will do?
08:51<jeremiah>pi_: Most likely yes
08:51<jm_>steffan: yes that will work too, looks like your TERM is set to that
08:51<pi_>jeremiah, many thanks. i'll install it then
08:51<jeremiah>The best thing to do I think is to install them both.
08:51<jm_>pi_: apt-cache show mysql-client
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08:51<jeremiah>I think the package is mysql-common
08:51<jeremiah>that includes both the server and the client
08:52<pi_>ah, thanks.
08:52<jeremiah>And as jm_ says, you can find out more info on any package by doing an apt-cache show <package> or an aptitude show <package>
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08:53<pi_>i kinda know it connects to a mysql server. i'm just not sure if i need it to run a mysql-server :)
08:53<steffan>jm_: Thank you
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09:02<jeremiah>pi_: Well, in short no you don't. But if you want to issue commands to the MySQL server to test it or whatever, you will want some sort of interface to the server and the mysql client is probably the best one
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09:03<jeremiah>Otherwise you will have to build your own interface with DBI or something.
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09:03<dpkg>the reason you have to use dpkg --force-confmiss is because whenever your config files (<conffiles>) are gone, dpkg assumes you deleted them on purpose, and that you want them to stay deleted. You can also reinstall them using the following apt-get line: apt-get -o DPkg::Options::="--force-confmiss" --reinstall install <packagename>; or using aptitude, aptitude -o DPkg::Options::="--force-confmiss" reinstall <packagename>;
09:04<pi_>jeremiah: noted. thanks for the info
09:04<matt7676>jm_: I burned "module-init-tools_3.3-pre4-2_i386.deb" to a CD and mounted it, but I get this "unable to access dpkg status area: Read-only file system" error all the time. Any ideas?
09:04<jeremiah>matt7676: Can you move the deb off of the CD onto the target system?
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09:05<matt7676>jeremiah: no, still "Read-only file system"
09:05<jeremiah>i.e. `mv /media/cdrom/disc/module-*.deb /home/user/matt7676`
09:05<jm_>matt7676: when booting with init=/bin/sh? yeah that keeps it ro
09:06<matt7676>jm_: ok, i see. But is there any way to avoid it? Or force it mount HDD read/write?
09:06<jm_>matt7676: just remount it r/w - but don't forget to fix it up before rebooting!
09:07<locsmif_lap>When I start kde, I keep getting a message about having no greeter resource, and that I should check the config..What should I do?
09:08<matt7676>jm_: is it possible to umount/mount "/" partition?
09:09<matt7676>jm_: or should i add something to fstab file?
09:09<jm_>matt7676: mount -o remount,rw /
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09:11<matt7676>jm_: thanks!
09:11<jm_>matt7676: do not forget to remount it ro before reboot
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09:14<locklace>matt7676: uh, reinstalling that package is not going to be enough to un-hose your system
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09:22<olasoft>i need LAN chat for my portal any open source one
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09:22<olasoft>i need LAN chat for my portal any open source one
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09:26<locklace>!fgi olasoft linux-lan-chat
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09:29<olasoft> locklace linux
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10:29<eightyeight>how does relatime work? is atime only updated when mtime is?
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10:29<chamilis>hi everyone, i need some help in mounting ntfs disks
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10:30<serega>привет всем
10:30<dr|z3d>chamilis: If you want automated mounting, you might look at installing ntfs-config
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10:31<chamilis>i' ve mounted an ntfs partition perfectly and it was working fine, but now it is unmounted
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10:31<chamilis>and when i try to munt it
10:31<eightyeight>chamilis: do you want it mounted everytime you boot?
10:31<serega>а по руски можно?
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10:32<eightyeight>chamilis: then you'll need to add an entry for it in your /etc/fstab
10:32<chamilis>but, it was mounted everytiem yi boot
10:32<chamilis>done it
10:32<eightyeight>then what's the problem?
10:32<chamilis>i get a messege that sais that the disk its been used
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10:32<chamilis>and that i cant mount the disk because of that
10:33<chamilis>should i force it?
10:33<eightyeight>i don't understand the error
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10:33<dr|z3d>Maybe you're trying to mount the partition twice, chamilis?
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10:34<chamilis>the partition was mounted but now its not, and i had already made the entry in fstab, which was working correctly
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10:37<prahal>how could I get "host" to stop asking dns about avahi hostnames (.local) ?
10:37-!-Worf_ [] has joined #debian
10:38<prahal>there is no /etc/network/options anymore
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10:38<fanti> i need to recompile xorg with a patch for ati's propriatary driver. so i downloaded the source via: apt-get source xorg-server, patched the file and installed dependencies via "apt-get build-dep". but dpkg-buildpackage -uc -b failed. the file fontmod.h, which should be part of libxfont-dev, was not found (libxfont-dev is installed). the file is not contained in the current testing and unstable package (amd64) of libxfont-dev. broken package?
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10:40<prahal>fanti, lenny ?
10:40<fanti>prahal: no, squeeze/sid
10:40<prahal>sorry I found it in libxfont-dev lenny so it is definitely above
10:41<prahal>are you sure you got squeeze/sid xorg-server source not lenny?
10:41<prahal>that is your deb-src line is correct
10:42<fanti>prahal: i've only one deb-src line: deb-src testing main non-free contrib
10:42<prahal>which was the version of xorg-server which was told ot be download by apt-get source ?
10:42<fanti>prahal: xorg-server-1.4.2
10:45<prahal>I bet a transition is going on ...
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10:46<fanti>prahal: i extracted the libxfont-dev package from /var/cache/apt/archive manually (which was downloaded from 4 days ago), and there was no file called fontmod.h
10:47<prahal>there are no . You could have checked via
10:47<prahal>there was in lenny
10:48<fanti>has the file moved to another package?
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10:50<prahal>I bet it is obsolete in newer xorg ... though there is a mismatch between squeeze xorg and libxfont-dev
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10:50<prahal>I believe it to be ok in sid
10:51<fanti>hmm maybe i should try to upgrade my xorg stuff to unstable and try again with xorg-server 1.6 ?
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10:52<prahal>you could (else you ll have to wait for 1.6 to transition to squeeze)
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10:53<prahal>though I don't know if fglrx will work with xorg 1.6 ... they tend to really lag behind
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11:16<stuckey>What packages do I need to watch flash movies? Just "gnash?
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11:17<petemc>the non free player will play a wider array of flash movies
11:18<dr|z3d>stuckey: flashplugin-nonfree is adobe's version.
11:18<stuckey>petemc: but the "gnash" packages provides what is needed to play at least some movies in a browser?
11:18<fanti>prahal: xorg-server 1.6.1 compiles fine
11:18<fanti>prahal: (fyi)
11:18<petemc>stuckey: i believe it does, i dont use it
11:19<prahal>thanks . If anybody else ask we'll know where it comes from.
11:20<prahal>I don't know if a bug is in order ... xorg is not on the transition squeeze cleanup list
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11:20<prahal>stuckey, mozilla-plugin-gnash
11:21<prahal>gnash is the cli
11:22<stuckey>ahh thanks,
11:22<stuckey>think this one will ever work well?
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11:24<stuckey>prahal: I've got audio, but no video.
11:25<prahal>yes it is definitely the one where most people work
11:26<prahal>you could report a bug (have you tried the cli command with the url ? it will provide debugging info)
11:26<stuckey>oh, you mean there's a lot of people working on it?
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11:26<stuckey>prahal: how do I get the url?
11:26<prahal>yes , swfdec is mostlly a one person project
11:27<prahal>that it depends on the web site
11:27<prahal>the fastest way to get it is to read the html source of the page
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11:29<Cornflake>I have a bunch of .o files I just created
11:29<Cornflake>how do I use them together to output a .dll with gcc?
11:30<locklace>Cornflake: make sure you compiled all the object files with -fPIC and then link with gcc -shared
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11:35<Cornflake>is there easy way to link with them? theres quite a few files
11:35<shiznatix>I have a 2nd HD that I just put into my computer and when I click on it in nautilus to mount/open it I get the error "You are not privileged to mount the volume '/boot'.". How do I just mount and browse this thing?
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11:37<adb>ls /boot ?
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11:38<shiznatix>no the drive is just called /boot. It is actually my servers HD with centos installed on it but it is breaking badly and I want to get a backup off of it before it dies 100%. I can't boot with a live cd and this is my only other idea.
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11:40<adb>became root for mount
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11:41<OdyX>What is your opinion concerning pictures in gpg keys ?
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11:43<cahoot>a definitive maybe
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11:43<shiznatix_>yes but how do I just have it work and mount normally? I don't want to have to enter a bunch of command line whatever every time I want to browse a second HD
11:43<steffan>Hello. Experiencing an issue whilst compiling on a Debian 5.0 x86_64 server (this only happens when using x86_64), the error is at
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11:45<adb>shiznatix_: edit fstab ?
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11:46<shiznatix_>it doesn't even look like its in the fstab file. Why is it so difficult to just browse a second HD? Why would I need to be root to do that in the first place?
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11:47<adb>welcome to Linux
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11:48<bja>shiznatix_: That which is not expressly allowed is forbidden
11:48<bja>shiznatix_: Good security mantra
11:48<locklace>and what i tell you three times is true
11:49<shiznatix_>ok well how do I do this anyway? I don't even know where to begin to do this, right now all I have is an error message, how do I get it to mount
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11:53<bja>shiznatix_: Can you get root privilidges
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11:55<bja>shiznatix_: Paste the output of the following commands "fdisk -l" "cat /etc/fstab"
11:55<bja>shiznatix_: The first will paste the states of your hdds ant the second how are you mounting them
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11:58<gkiagia>hi there, anybody happens to know what's going on with bluetooth tools in sid? I just upgraded and "hidd" is gone and I don't know how to connect my bluetooth mouse :( (I used to connect it with hidd --connect $MACADDRESS)
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12:00<cahoot>gkiagia: checked bts?
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12:00<OdyX>gkiagia: new upstream relase with deprecation of those binaries in favor of the new fancy dbus-only interface ?
12:01<gkiagia>I'm doing it now, but it's quite difficult without a mouse :P
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12:01<OdyX>gkiagia: dbus aka no command-line interface and actually no gui interface for kde (kdebluetooth will need some work before inclusion)
12:02<gkiagia>OdyX: that's kind of bad... :((
12:02<OdyX>gkiagia: I know
12:03<OdyX>gkiagia: dbus is the new fancy userspace "put it all inside"
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12:03<OdyX>should be renamed to SystemBusKit
12:03<gkiagia>or *kit :P
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12:04<locklace>!lart dbus
12:04<gkiagia>well, even if kdebluetooth worked, or I used gnome's utils, how would I do it without a mouse?
12:04<bja>shiznatix_: as root "mkdir /media/hd2p1"
12:04<bja>shiznatix_: as root "mkdir /media/hd2p2"
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12:08<SQlvpapir>could anyone check if my eth0 is configured properly so it matches my dhcpd.conf?
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12:09<bja>"/dev/sdb1 /media/h2p1 ext3 user,exec,suid,noauto 0 2"
12:09<bja> "/dev/sdb2 /media/h2p2 ext3 user,exec,suid,noauto 0 2"
12:10<bja>shiznatix_: Those 2 lines shall make the sdb disk mountable by anyone
12:10<bja>shiznatix_: Then you can go on and do yor backup
12:11<bja>shiznatix_: Although there are programs that do no require this.
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12:12<gkiagia>qdbus doesn't help, org.bluez on the system bus seems empty :S
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12:25<bja>shiznatix_: s/no/not
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12:29<johan_>hi i,m new here
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12:29<abrotman>hi johan_
12:30<johan_>i like to say that i love linux ()
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12:31-!-mode/#debian [+l 409] by debhelper
12:31<abrotman>you killed the bot by abusing it
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12:32<ml|>bja: the bot killer ;)
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12:32<bja>je je
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12:34<johan_>i.m running xubuntu on a amd500 pc
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12:36<interbird>i'm just running, somebody is after me...
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12:37<ml|>johan_: for unbuntu questions, you should ask in #ubuntu on
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12:38<ml|>i think there is also an #xubuntu on freenode
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12:39<OdyX>dpkg's dead :(
12:39<bja>ml|: killed him
12:39<interbird>someone killed it by lovin' it...
12:39<ml|>no no it was bja!
12:39<dr|z3d>interbird: Wouldn't be the first time love killed!
12:40<interbird>he he :-)
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12:45<Slurb>anyone here
12:45<Slurb>i could use some help
12:45<interbird>tell us
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12:46<Slurb>i just upgraded from lenny to sid and now there is no display manager and when i install kdm it says failed to load theme file to be replaced by DesktopBase
12:47<Slurb>i am looking to get kde up and running again
12:47<ml|>no lenny to testing first?
12:47<Slurb>why bother?
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12:48<interbird>what steps did you take to upgrade ?
12:48<Slurb>just changed the repos and did a dist-upgrade
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12:49<Slurb>nothing major
12:49<shiznatix_>Ok thanks bja, I got it working. The problem now though is that only the /boot part of the HD is mounted. How do I mount the root /?
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12:50<cahoot>for each partition the method is the same
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12:51<Slurb>whats the program for mouse support in console?
12:51<bja>shiznatix_: you have two partitions, I gave you the two lines you need two mount each one, of them .
12:52<interbird>something like that iirc
12:52<adama>Slurb: yes
12:52<shiznatix_>how do I mount the second partion? In nautilus I just clicked on the /boot one but I don't know where the other is located or anything
12:52<dr|z3d>Slurb: Looks that way. apt-cache search gpm would help.
12:52<Slurb>cool thank you
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12:53<bja>shiznatix_: How many lines did you add to /etc/fstab?
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12:55<bja>shiznatix_: on a normal console type "mount /media/h2p2"
12:56<bja>Is there a postgres channel on oftc?
12:56<shiznatix_>bja, the result:
12:57<bja>shiznatix_: do as told
12:57<Slurb>got it working anyway meanies...won't help people with sid...its people like me that make your experience with debian possible
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12:58<Slurb>no offense
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13:00<interbird>give a man a fish and he has food for just one day...
13:00<interbird>let him fish... :-)
13:00<bja>shiznatix_: Thats from your cd drive? try dmesg|grep sdb
13:01<locklace>teach a man to fish, and he'll bitch to you endlessly about how tired he is of seafood
13:01<shiznatix_>bja, nothing returned
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13:04<interbird>shiznatix_: what does vol_id /dev/sdb2 say ?
13:05<interbird>as root
13:07<Slurb>guess ill go with gnome...see if it works
13:08<Slurb>i hope i can get sid running with an x window manager
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13:08<Slurb>any suggestions?
13:08<Slurb>anyone run sid
13:09<abrotman>suggestions for installing gnome?
13:09<interbird>Slurb: just look what /etc/kdm/kdm.conf (or so) specifies as a theme, find the packages for that and install it manually or so
13:10<bja>shiznatix_: and the output of vol_id?
13:10<Slurb>interbird no etc/kdm/ exists
13:10<Slurb>tried the kdmrc file
13:10<Slurb>i need the cfg file though
13:11<interbird>Slurb: i'm no kde user, but there must be some kdm config file in /etc somewhere i suppose...
13:11<Slurb>suggestions for having a running xwindows sid
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13:11<Slurb>im gonna try gnome again
13:12<Slurb>i remember it being more stable anyway...just not as pretty
13:12<interbird>Slurb: you could also try to install gdm can use that to start kde
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13:12<Slurb>gdm doesnt see a kde to stas=rt
13:12<gravity>Slurb: Does X itself start?
13:12<Slurb>x works fine
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13:13<gravity>Slurb: Just put your window manager in to ~/.xsession then
13:13<gravity>That's the easiest way to do it
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13:15<Slurb>gravity: whats the syntax for the file .xsession?
13:15<Slurb>the file doesnt exist
13:16<gravity>Slurb: It's a shell script that gets sourced during the default login from either a *dm or startx
13:16<Slurb>what format do i add kde
13:16<Slurb>its a blank file
13:16<bja>Slurb: You are looking into the "Dark side of X" je je
13:17<Slurb>well everything else seems to work
13:17<Slurb>guess ill go to #sid #kde?
13:17<gravity>Slurb: I think it was startkde
13:18<gravity>Try another wm if your kde is broken though
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13:18<Slurb>ml|: thx
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13:22<shiznatix_>sorry. vol_id shows this:
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13:25<bja>dpkg: wb
13:25<ml|>dpkg: wb
13:26<interbird>shiznatix_: ok, so it seems it is or was part of a raid configuration. you use raid ? or is this an old disk you plugged in ?
13:27<interbird>(raid or lvm)
13:29<shiznatix_>it wasn't on a raid or anything, it was just a single HD in the computer it was in
13:29<bja>interbird: thx, didn't notice it from the begining, can't help any more :(
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13:29<ed_debian>should I (a typical user) have read/write permission to the /usr/local folder? If not, why?
13:30<interbird>bja: ok, thx.
13:30<interbird>shiznatix_: ok, and there is no valuable data on this disk ?
13:30<abrotman>ed_debian: no
13:30<shiznatix_>interbird, there is a lot of valuable data on it. What I am trying to do it get it to mount so I can back up everything that was on it
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13:31<ed_debian>abrotman, Why? What goes in there besides stuff I put in there?
13:31<interbird>shiznatix_: and it comes from another system ?
13:31<abrotman>ed_debian: "stuff" ?
13:31<sney>/usr/local is an install prefix, it is not your "my documents" folder
13:31<ed_debian>abrotman, lol, well I have two bash scripts in there right now so I can call them without navigating to their home directory
13:32<abrotman>ed_debian: okay .. so what?
13:32<ed_debian>sney, lol yeah I know that
13:32<shiznatix_>interbird, yes. It has centos on it but starting after a reboot today it won't boot up again so I want to back everything up that is on it
13:32<ed_debian>abrotman, I noticed I need root permission to put a new script in today and then I realized why do I need root permission?
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13:33<abrotman>because you don't want users putting stuff in there
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13:33<ed_debian>abrotman, Because then a local user good create a global system change?
13:33<sney>that's what sudo isfor
13:33<ed_debian>could* , not good
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13:33<interbird>shiznatix_: well, unless you have *exactly* the same raid-hardware in your system as the one that runs centos, afaik it is not possible to recover on your system
13:33<ed_debian>Ok I understand now!
13:33<ed_debian>Thank you guys!
13:34<abrotman>ed_debian: do you understand ?
13:34<sney>giving a regular user account the ability to change important things on the system opens the door to all kinds of avoidable security issues
13:34<interbird>shiznatix_: you have to put them back in the centos machine and try to rebuild the raid array there...
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13:34<shiznatix_>interbird, but I don't see why there would be raid on this since there was only 1 HD
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13:34<ed_debian>abrotman, Yeah I think so. You want to limit users to their home folders because then they can't affect the other users
13:34<abrotman>ed_debian: let's just say for some reason you allow users to write stuff into /usr/local/bin/ which is in the system $PATH, and they create a script that acts like a commonly used program that you don't have installed, but it does bad stuff ...
13:35<interbird>shiznatix_: it could be that the bios setting in the centos machine was on raid or that centos was running above lvm or something like that
13:35<ed_debian>abrotman, yeah
13:35<ed_debian>abrotman, Thanks again! I have to go now though my lunch is ready :)
13:35<interbird>shiznatix_: either way...
13:35<interbird>shiznatix_: the partition is not a native filesystem partition
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13:36<interbird>shiznatix_: what was the problem on the centos machine ?
13:36<shiznatix_>interbird, so I can't get anything off this HD through my debian box?
13:36<shiznatix_>interbird, when trying to boot it would just stop at "init: version 2.85 booting" and freeze there
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13:37<interbird>shiznatix_: looks like a kernel misconfig, you could try some kernel parameters
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13:37<interbird>shiznatix_: one way that might work is...
13:37<interbird>shiznatix_: boot the centos box from knoppix 5.11, maybe it finds your raid/lvm configuration
13:38<interbird>(knoppix 5.11 live cd)
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13:38<bja>shiznatix_: I don't know if this can help, on "man mount" it states the nouuid flag
13:38<interbird>bja: it's a raid or lvm partition, not a regular fs
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13:39<bja>interbird: thx, thought it would hep
13:39<interbird>shiznatix_: so, put the disk(s) back in the centos box, boot from knoppix cd 5.11 and see if it recognizes the raid/lvm layout
13:40*bja takes a piece of paper and begins taking notes.
13:40<shiznatix_>interbird, I tried to boot from a debian live cd but it gave like 10013134 errors about the HD and that was that
13:40<interbird>shiznatix_: if it does, you could recover the data to a big usb-drive...
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13:40<interbird>shiznatix_: knoppix has better hardware detection
13:41<interbird>it just might do the trick for you
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13:41<ml|>yeah knoppix is magical ;)
13:41<shiznatix_>interbird, roger that. Super thanks I will try that first thing tomorrow
13:41<shiznatix_>but for now I will leave work finally
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13:41<shiznatix_>thanks for the help
13:41<interbird>shiznatix_: also, try to discover the raid-controller in the centos box with lspci, googleon it to see what device it creates in /dev
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13:42<interbird>(if any)
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13:43<interbird>shiznatix_: succ7 !
13:43<bja>interbird: Do you know of a good tutorial on raid and lvm partitioning?
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13:45<bja>interbird: I read wikipedia whiele you were typing a few minutes ago. ;P
13:46<interbird>bja: hehe, well doen't it link to more info in the external links section ?
13:46<bja>ml|: thx
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13:47<bja>interbird: Yes it does, but then again I rely on common good knowledge je je
13:47<bja>interbird: Which usually pays off
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13:48<Lenhix>Hello. I want to know if the Debian installer makes partitions using 1000 or 1024 as multiplier when specyfing MB/GB. Based on post-installation analysis I've made I think it's 1000 but I'd like somebody to confirm me that.
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13:49<dr|z3d>Lenhix: I'd imagine it would use 1024, but you might know different.
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13:54<interbird>Lenhix: It's difficult to determine post-install because the partition might be aligned on artificial boundaries like cylinders and padded
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13:55<Lenhix>I've been testing even with virtual machines, which have a fixed disk size of 1024^n
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13:55<Lenhix>df, by default, uses 1024 as multiplier; -H is for 1000. That's what I've used to determine sizes, but I wanted to be sure.
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13:56<interbird>df is used on a file-system and partitioning is a disk matter; there is always overhead and even that depends on the filesystem used and the partitioner used
13:57<interbird>you could experiment with fdisk in a virtual machine, assuming debian install uses the same fdisk code, but fdisk also has flags to influence it's workings
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13:58<locklace>Lenhix: just use fdisk -l -u instead of df
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13:59<Lenhix>Ok. I want to distribute disk space as exactly as I can. I'll make more tests. Thx
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13:59<interbird>once i wanted that too, gave it up :-)
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14:01<bozz>hey there, looking for advices.. i have to change the hdd with root filesystem.. and i'd like to know the safest way to do that? i ve found lot of different ways to do that but i cant fail on that and i m in a hurry, thanks
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14:02<interbird>plug the target disk also in the system
14:03<locklace>bozz: boot from a rescue disk, mount old and new partitions, copy the contents over with cp -av or cpio, fix up the bootloader entries and fstab, done.
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14:03<interbird>use fdisk to partition it and cp -a to copy all your files
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14:04<interbird>then shutdown, swap the disks, boot from knoppix and generate a new grub on the target, now first, disk
14:04<ed_debian>bozz, I did it about 2 months ago using gparted with both harddrives in the machine. I think that the "safest" way is to do it slowly and carefully and make sure that each step is correct before proceeding. Basically, take your time.
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14:05<interbird>checkout /boot/grub/menu.list on how your root-partition is mounted: by device, by uuid or by label; make sure to readup on how to configure grub
14:05<ed_debian>bozz, Make a clear concise list of each step. You need to do essentially three things. Copy the files, edit /etc/fstab, and 3rd fix grub
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14:05<bozz>f**k.. i m a bit ashamed! i ve not even thought about that way..
14:06<ed_debian>bozz, Try not to be overwhelmed when you ask for help and 4 different people offer solutions at the same time lol
14:06<bozz>i was thinking about stuff really more complicated :)
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14:07<ed_debian>bozz, Its really not that hard to do. What happens is you find little things wrong later. Like for me 1 month afterwards I realized I couldn't suspend to ram becuase one of the scripts was pointing to my old drive parition's name
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14:07<bozz>thank you all, i m gonna 'try' the interbird's way
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14:11<bja>shamanix: dpkg is dead ml| killed it
14:11<ed_debian>I am writing an rsync bash script. The rsync man says that the -F flag allows me to use --exclude=PATTERN What is this pattern? How do I say copy this directory recursively but exclude another folder that is inside the first?
14:11<cowex>How do I install debian with a full encrypted system?
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14:12<shamanix>they killed dpkg, the bastards ;-)
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14:14<locklace>ed_debian: is the section "INCLUDE/EXCLUDE PATTERN RULES" in the manpage, and all of the examples therein, insufficient for some reason
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14:14<ed_debian>locklace, I didn't know there was such a manpage :)
14:14<ed_debian>locklace, Thank you!!
14:15<ed_debian>locklace, Is it in the rsync man ?
14:15<ed_debian>locklace, Yes, I found it. Thank you again!
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14:18<ml|>bja: :P
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14:19<ed_debian>I do I skip to a certain section of the manpages? Say in the rsync manpage skip to the FILTER RULES section?
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14:20<locklace>ed_debian: i usually use "/^FILTER RULES" (or ? instead of / if it's before the current position instead of after it)
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14:22<ed_debian>locklace, Thanks
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14:23<interbird>bozz: actualy, my way is not completely correct...
14:23<interbird>bozz: it's best to do the copying when booted from a live cd like knoppix
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14:24<interbird>bozz: otherwise you copy a live system with mounted pseudo filesystems like /tmp /proc etc
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14:25<bozz>i wont copy them anyway ( /dev too )
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14:26<interbird>bozz: no need, better not, they get created at boot
14:26<interbird>bozz: no need, better not, they get created at boo
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14:26<locklace>ed_debian: or just use / and then if it fails because the line was above instead of below, hit N, or say "/@^FILTER RULES" instead
14:26<bozz>yeah i know that, that's why i wont copy them :)
14:26<ed_debian>locklace, thank you
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14:26<bozz>thank you again!
14:27<locklace>bozz: that's why you use cp -ax
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14:28<locklace>bozz: i gave you the full procedure (except my "cp -av" should have been "cp -ax"), it's simple and works fine as long as you're familiar with fstab and your bootloader configuration
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14:29<bozz>yep you're right.. i didnt notice!
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14:31<ed_debian>What is wrong with this line? I'm getting a syntax error?
14:31<ed_debian>rsync -h -r --filter=- /Album\ Art/ /home/ed/Music /home/ed/fakeCowonS9
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14:32<locklace>ed_debian: you really want to be using quotes (' ') to enclose arguments like that, also lets you avoid the leaning toothpick syndrome
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14:33<locklace>ed_debian: strongly suggest spending some quality time with the section of your shell manual devoted to quoting
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14:34<locklace>short version: enclosing a phrase in quotes means it will be passed as a single argument to the command. using " " still permits certain kinds of shell variable expansion like $FOO, whereas ' ' makes almost everything inside literal
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15:06<mysoogal>is there some type of a issue with crontab not executing bash script with ffmpeg and mencoder together in single script ?
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15:09<s4br3>Hi, I am using Debian r-cran packages. Does anyone know if there are any R specific channels?
15:10<adama>there is one. check the R website
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15:28<OdyX>Hi. Is there a way to avoid services to be started automagically when installed/upgraded ?
15:29-!-xlotlu [~john@] has joined #debian
15:29<bo>OdyX, sure
15:29<OdyX>bo: what is the way then ?
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15:30<bo>OdyX, just a minute
15:31<bo>OdyX, I'm just another n00b but I would look in /etc/rc[runlevelnumber].d
15:31<bo>e.g. /etc/rc3.d
15:31<bo>there are symbolic links
15:32<bo>those are started when entering the runlevel
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15:32<bo>at least in theory afaik
15:33<abrotman>OdyX: no
15:33<OdyX>I know that… What I am looking for is a system-wide configuration to disable the fact that an initscript is launched at start
15:33<abrotman>OdyX: not some magical way anyways
15:33<OdyX>aka "any initscript"
15:34<OdyX>abrotman: a hook in dpkg to un-link ?
15:34<bo>OdyX, sry :-P
15:34<OdyX>bo: np
15:34<abrotman>OdyX: you'd have to alter the postinst scripts .. why not just let it install and hten stop it ?
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15:34<bo>OdyX, so my answer is right? (just the wrong question :-) )
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15:35<OdyX>abrotman: it's not a question for me in fact… ;) Somebody asked me this because it is his only reason to avoid Debian...
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15:35<OdyX>which I dislike
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15:35<abrotman>OdyX: that's kind of silly .. you just let it install, stop it, then use update-rc.d to keep it from starting at boot time
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15:36<locklace>one thing that would be nice is some consistency in (a) having a /etc/default/foo file for each service, (b) having an "enable this thing" option in the default file
15:37<OdyX>what about dpkg-divert'ing /etc/rc*.d ?
15:37<OdyX>or dpkg-divert'ing /etc/init.d/apache before installing it
15:37<abrotman>OdyX: they're symlinks created by update-rc.d AFAIK
15:38<OdyX>/etc/init.d/* not
15:39<abrotman>right .. but then it wouldn't be there at all? how would he start it ?
15:40<OdyX>cp'ing the file from the divert target to source
15:40<OdyX>and running update-rc.d
15:41<OdyX>just an idea… but it makes me seriously think
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15:48<ju1c3>i'm trying to get aircrack-ng to work with my intel 3945 ABG. can someone help me? or at least point me in the right direction
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16:00<OdyX>abrotman: works perfectly !!!
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16:01<abrotman>you say that now ...
16:02<OdyX>abrotman: 1) mkdir /etc/init.disabled 2) # dpkg-divert --divert /etc/init.disabled/apache2 --rename /etc/init.d/apache2 3) # aptitude install apache2 => not launched
16:02<OdyX>then 4) ln -s /etc/init.disabled/apache2 /etc/init.d/apache2 && update-rc.d apache2 defaults enables it
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16:14<deniz>is there a way to make gimp not go on intensive swap usage wenever i load 3 1200 dpi images on a 3gb system with 2GB max allowed for gimp?
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16:15<deniz>and i mean super intensive like i cant even click on stuff wen the nice value is at 19!
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16:15<deniz>(on stuff other than gimp)
16:15<deniz>or gimp itself too
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16:20<leejongwook>how do i add extra language ?
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16:21<interbird>with dpkg-reconfigure locales you can add other locales to your system; for software packages install the corresponding language-pack
16:22<leejongwook>:) thanks so i can add extra language without change system default language right ?
16:22<leejongwook>i meant with dpkg-reconfigure locales
16:22<leejongwook>thanks :)
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16:23<interbird>dpkg-reconfigure locales presents you with a list of locales you can select to be installed; but this is not the same as installing a language-pack for a software-package
16:24<leejongwook>interbird, thanks :)
16:24<leejongwook>but i have a little problem
16:24<interbird>which is...
16:24<leejongwook>command not found :P
16:25<leejongwook>dpkg-reconfigure <-- i dont have this
16:25<leejongwook>and i also did apt-get install
16:25<interbird>you must give the command as root
16:25<leejongwook>i see :)
16:26<leejongwook>works :)
16:26<leejongwook>hehehe you so kind :) thanks
16:26<simonrvn>i don't think debian has "language-packs" ;)
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16:26<interbird>simonrvn: i was talking about language-packs for software-packages, like OOo for example
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16:28<leejongwook>ok i think i have installed extra language to my system
16:29<leejongwook>and next is.. how do i use it ?
16:29<leejongwook>scim (?)
16:30<leejongwook><-- live in south korea, and i installed korean, but i do want to use my gnome-panel with english for prevent conflict
16:30<leejongwook>sometimes its broken(adobe air installer)
16:31<leejongwook>if i installed without using english as default
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16:31<interbird>adobe air is not a debian package
16:31<leejongwook>yes :) but i can download it from the internet :)
16:32<leejongwook>air adk for x86
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16:32<leejongwook>i've been used it for simple action script-3 hello world project
16:32<interbird>you might want to start synaptic, search on locales and language or so, and install some more support...
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16:34<leejongwook>makes me smile :) thanks thanks x 1000 times
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16:35<leejongwook>interbird <-- your nick sounds like ubuntu interpid :) (version 8.10)(stable)
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16:35<interbird>i am older :-)
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16:39<leejongwook>this is 5:38am(south korea), where do you live interbird (?)
16:39<interbird>holland (the netherlands)
16:39<leejongwook>cool :)
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16:40<leejongwook>sounds like very clean ~ place :)
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16:40<leejongwook>south korea is very small country with a lots of people
16:41<deniz>is swap performance greatly increased if you have two different hard drives with a 1gb swap or is it better to have an external disk with 2 gb swap?
16:41<leejongwook>and too much cars
16:41<MyWifeIs19>and too many ppl
16:41<MyWifeIs19>I was born in Seoul Bulkwangdong
16:41<leejongwook>where do you live now (?)
16:42<locklace>deniz: depends on the drives and the controller setup
16:42<avu>if you want to chat, please take it to #debian-offtopic
16:42<deniz>7200rpm, controller setup = ?
16:42<leejongwook>:) sorry
16:42<deniz>locklace, ^^
16:42<MyWifeIs19>is aptitude as reliable as dselect? (It was not back in woody days...)
16:43<locklace>deniz: but if you find yourself seriously trying to optimise swap performance, you should probably be investing in more ram instead
16:43<deniz>locklace, lol i have 3gb on laptop and soon to be 4 on desktop, its cuz i need over 10 gb to gimp up 3 1200 dpi images
16:43<ml|>aptitude ftw
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16:44<deniz>and while waiting id like an external disk to spin like crazy and not slow down my system cuz the main disk is spinning like crazy
16:44<interbird>deniz: how big is your swap partition ?
16:45<locklace>uh, that work model seems less than optimal
16:45<interbird>what is the resolution and color depths of the images ?
16:45<deniz>ya but im using swap from main disk
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16:45<locklace>i don't know gimp but isn't there some way to change the way it handles disk and memory
16:45<deniz>ya i no those ways
16:45<deniz>doesnt help
16:46<deniz>wat id like to no
16:46<MyWifeIs19>I have 4g of ram, but I never saw linux using any more than 3.17G, after that it hits swap....
16:46<deniz>iif gimp is slow
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16:46<deniz>i dont min d
16:46<deniz>wat i mind
16:46<locklace>i mean it's pointless for it to read a bunch of stuff into "memory" if "memory" is really just "disk" anyway
16:46<deniz>if it impacts the other apps
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16:46<locklace>for the love of god, man... space bar
16:46<deniz>lol sry
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16:48<interbird>MyWifeIs19: ram is devided in userspace and kernel space, usually 3G/1G so after 3G swap is on
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16:49<MyWifeIs19>interbird, why is kernel taking 1gig then????
16:49<MyWifeIs19>(seems alot...)
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16:50<interbird>MyWifeIs19: Is's the address-space of 4G that's devided; not the kernel taking 1G but having 1G address space
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16:50<leejongwook>be back :)
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16:51<MyWifeIs19>interbird, either way, 1 g is wasted???
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16:55<interbird>define wasted; the address space is just not available to userland; you can recompile your kernel with different settings (depending on the cpu used)
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16:56<abrotman>might need the bigmem kernel
16:57<MyWifeIs19>to me "wasted" means not available for neither userland nor kernel....
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16:57<interbird>well, the 1G address space is available to the kernel and thus not wasted
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16:58<magvay2007>Hi all User`s
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16:58<interbird>for deniz it does not matter cause he has 3G ram, should he have more a bigmem kernel would be a good idea
16:59<MyWifeIs19>is 3:1 ratio or is it fixed number? i.e., if I get 4G more, is it still only 3G for userland?
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16:59<interbird>that's what i said earlier; you can change it in the kernel configuration file and recompile the kernel
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17:00<interbird>you can also change the upper-limit from 4G to 64G (bigmem-kernel) but your cpu has to support pae
17:01<MyWifeIs19>"cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep pae" shows the flag line
17:02<dondelelcaro>there's pretty much no point to the bigmem kernels unless you have significantly more than 4G
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17:02<interbird>for debian there are also ready-made bigmem kernel packages
17:02<dondelelcaro>(and presumably you should be using the amd64 kernels in most of those cases, anyway)
17:03<MyWifeIs19>I am using amd64 kernel
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17:03<interbird>and how much ramis in the machine?
17:03<MyWifeIs19>I am using amd64 kernel, does it have bigmem "built-in"?
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17:04<Gathond>MyWifeIs19: yes
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17:04<Gathond>MyWifeIs19: however a lot of chipsets (mostly intel) only support 4 G of address space because of the memory controller in the chipset
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17:05<MyWifeIs19>4gig now, I was going to upgrade to quad core and 8 gig... I guess I should rethink the whole scheme again...
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17:05<Gathond>and since PCI address space has to be mapped into that same range of 4 G it limits that to around some 3.2 G
17:05<interbird>MyWifeIs19: Look at your motherboard specs
17:05<Gathond>usable for the operating system
17:06<Gathond>it should not be an issue on any motherboard with support for more than 4 G of memory
17:06<petern>you can get oddities, even with 4GB installed. it showed as 5GB for me, on an AMD64 system
17:07<ed_debian>I am using rsync to copy some files from one directory to another (both local). Isn't it supposed to check for what needs updating and only send the "new" information and not recopy the entire source to the destination? I have run it 3 times now and each time it takes just as long (over 2 minutes). Is there an argument I need to pass?
17:07<petern>presumably due to a hole for 32bit pci devices
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17:07<interbird>petern: interesting, you could also use 5G ? :-)
17:07<interbird>that's cheap mem !
17:08<locklace>ed_debian: you should, as a reflex, use the -niv options to see what will happen before you do the real thing
17:08<Gathond>not really, as the PCI stuff is not really there as memory
17:08<petern>oddly enough, no :)
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17:09<MyWifeIs19>it's am2+ socket with some amd chipset... when I run two video encoding process, CPU seem to wait for disk... so I was thinking maybe if i get 8 gig, OS might be smart enough to read good chunk of file and not wait for the HDD
17:09<ed_debian>locklace, Am I right though about how rsync runs? It check first and then sends only what it needs to?
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17:11<cerpin>nm-applet shows that my network connection (eth0 ifupdown) is deactivated (but it isnt). this makes some gnome-appls to start in offline mode. how can i fix that issue? i have debian testing and nm-applet is version 0.7.1
17:11<interbird>adding ram does not make an os smarter; dumber, some...
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17:12<ml|>ed_debian: it's being a while since i used rsync, what optins are you using? and i switched to rsnaphot
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17:13<ed_debian>ml|, What is rsnaphot (do you mean rsnapshot). I it is a very simple command right now.
17:13<ml|>yes oops
17:13<ed_debian>rsync -r -filter='- /Album Art/' /home/ed/Music / home/ed/fake
17:14<ed_debian>I am just figuring things out hence the "fake"
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17:14<ed_debian>I am also running it right now with the -i option to see what needs changing
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17:14<ml|>ed_debian: locklace said you can use -n option
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17:15<ed_debian>ml|, yeah I know. All that gives is a dry-run
17:15<ed_debian>I'm fooling with that too
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17:15<interbird>ed_debian: i use these flags to sync dirs, use at your own risk: --del -v -u -l -r --owner --group --perms --acls --xattrs --times
17:15<locklace>ed_debian: the default for rsync is --whole-file if both the src and the dest are local
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17:16<ed_debian>locklace, A - Ha! What if I use the -u (update only) flag?
17:16<interbird>man rsync will tell you that
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17:16<ed_debian>interbird, I have it open I guess I missed that part (it is quite long)
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17:17<ed_debian>-u seems to have done the trick
17:17<ed_debian>thanks guys!
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17:20<ml|>ed_debian: this what i used to use ... rsync -avr --delete
17:20-!-dpkg [] has joined #debian
17:20<ml|>dpkg: wb
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17:22<ed_debian>I am trying to write another rsync command for a script (that these will both go in) How do I specify that the source dirs are any dir that ends in "Podcast" ?? apparently --include='+ /home/ed/*Podcast' is wrong
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17:23<adama>I like to use the -H switch on rsync
17:23<ed_debian>What does that one do?
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17:23<interbird>ed_debian: brake the name up with basename
17:23<adama>preserves hard links... I was thinking of the -a though
17:23<interbird>man basename
17:23<ed_debian>interbird, ok thanks
17:23<adama>-Hazv or -Hav for local
17:24<dpkg>thanks, ml|. It's good to be back.
17:24-!-amphi_ [~amphi@] has joined #debian
17:24<adama>!beer ml|
17:24*dpkg pours a litre of Piraat for ml|
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17:25<ml|>hehe thanks :)
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17:25<MyWifeIs19>!crack anyone
17:25*dpkg makes anyone a crackhead.
17:25<ed_debian>So should I write my own loop to traverse the directory and check each file to see if it is in a directory that ends in "Podcast" and then rsync said file?
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17:26<interbird>ed_debian: maybe regular expressions provide a better way; i don't know exactly what you want...
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17:28<adama>try --include or --exclude for rsync?
17:28<ed_debian>Ok I have in my home I have many folder. Some of those folders contain podcasts (that are automatically downloaded and placed there by rhythmbox). I want to make an rsync command that takes those dir (those that end in the word "Podcast" cause they always do) as the source
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17:28<ed_debian>adama, I tried -filter = '+ /home/ed/*Podcast/" but that doesn't do it
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17:28<dondelelcaro>ed_debian: so you want something like --include=***/*Podcast*** or similar
17:29<ed_debian>I think I need reg-ex too. Can I put them in as an argument?
17:29<ml|>ed_debian: yes try include
17:29<ed_debian>dondelelcaro, Yes! But with arbitrary **'s
17:29<ed_debian>arbitrary number of *'s that is
17:29<adama>you could use find
17:29<dondelelcaro>ed_debian: uh... the *** has a special meaning
17:30<dondelelcaro>(for rsync)
17:30<adama>find ~ -name '*Podcast' -exec rsync ...
17:30-!-azeem [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:30<ed_debian>dondelelcaro, It means any character (not slashs)
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17:30<ed_debian>adama, :) Thank you
17:30<dondelelcaro>ed_debian: no, it doesn't.
17:31<hbd>Hi )
17:31<adama>ed_debian: you also want " -type d" on the find command (dirs only)
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17:32<interbird>and maybe also -iname
17:32<dondelelcaro>--include='**/*Podcast/***' should do it just fine
17:32<locklace>but the find way is the ghetto way
17:32<dondelelcaro>if it's not, use the verbose modes of rsync to see what is happening
17:32<ml|>locklace: lol
17:32<ed_debian>lol there is a linux ghetto?
17:32<ed_debian>High crime rates?
17:32<adama>find and rm live there
17:33<interbird>ehh, linspire
17:33<adama>those dangerous commands
17:33<ml|>ed_debian: take look at rsnapshot
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17:33<ed_debian>dondelelcaro, What does the * mean in rsync?
17:33<locklace>i'll just make two observations. 1, if you use zsh you can write a native wildcard that selects exactly what you want; 2, the whole reason rsync has an advanced filter syntax is to enable you to rsync exactly what you want with one rsync command
17:35-!-hbd [~hbd@] has quit []
17:35<ed_debian>rsync -r -u -i --filter='+ **/*Podcast/***' /home/ed/fake/Podcasts
17:35<ed_debian>copies what appears to be everything in my home folder?
17:35<ed_debian>Did I type it wrong?
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17:36<dondelelcaro>ed_debian: man rysnc
17:37<ed_debian> o a ‘*’ matches any non-empty path component (it stops at slashes).
17:37<ed_debian> o use ’**’ to match anything, including slashes.
17:37<ed_debian>None of my files have slashes in them anyway?
17:37<ed_debian>and what does *** do?
17:37<dondelelcaro>it's documented there too
17:37<locklace>--include='*Podcast' really ought to be good enough
17:37<dondelelcaro>and your directories certainly have slashes in them.
17:38<ed_debian>dondelelcaro, But I don't want to copy any directories
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17:38<dondelelcaro>if you just want *files* in any subdirectories called podcast, then just use **Podcast
17:39<dondelelcaro>if you just want files ending in podcast in a single directory, then *Podcast
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17:42<deniz>is it possible to have 2 swaps on 2 different harddrives and to tell linux to use only the first one unless it's full?
17:42<ed_debian>deniz, I believe it is more efficient to use both at once
17:43<dondelelcaro>deniz: you can prioritize them
17:43<deniz>ed_debian, dondelelcaro, yes that sounds better :) so how do i prioritize them?
17:44<ComradeHaz>Hi all, just formatting a new drive and notied ext4 has slipped in to gparted.... Is this worth using now or is it still in testing?
17:44<locklace>ComradeHaz: testing
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17:47<dondelelcaro>deniz: man swapon, and read about the pri= option
17:47<deniz>dondelelcaro, -p ?
17:48<dondelelcaro>deniz: it's -p when you call swapon, but pri in fstab
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17:48<interbird>deniz: using two swaps on two physical drives has more performance than using just one overflowing to a second when it's full
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17:49<dondelelcaro>though there are valid reasons to assign different priorities to them (if one is significantly slower than the other, for example)
17:51<deniz>so does a low priority on swap also increase priority of RAM use in comparison or is it only swap to swap priority ratio?
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17:51<interbird>the last
17:52<deniz>interbird, ok so if my external hd is turned off then, the main drive's swap should take over as normal but otherwise "bow down" to the external when it's open?
17:52<interbird>linux uses all ram first and then starts swapping if in excess othe physical ram is used
17:53<deniz>interbird, by "all ram" does that include cache because ive seen RAM not be fully used and have swap be used, especially with high vm swappiness and cache pressure
17:53<interbird>turned off like in power safe ?
17:53<ed_debian>Sorry to bother you guys again but I just can't seem to get this to work
17:54<interbird>ram is always fully used; you mistake the address space for the amount of ram; they are not the same
17:54<ed_debian>I am running rsync -r -u -i --filter='+ **Podcast/***' /home/ed/fake/Podcasts
17:54<ed_debian>It isn't finding anything it needs to update
17:55<ed_debian>two "**" trailing does the same thing
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17:56<ed_debian>Do i need to specify a source? Or can I use the filter as the source?
17:57<locklace>ed_debian: (cd; rsync -rui --include='*Podcast/*' ./ /home/ed/fake/Podcasts)
17:57<ed_debian>locklace, I could kiss you!
17:58<ed_debian>but I won't so don't worry
17:58<ml|>!beer locklace
17:58*dpkg pulls out a nicely refined Bornem Tripple for locklace
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17:58<locklace>ed_debian: btw, if you want to turn on the delta mode for local transfers you can add --no-whole-file
17:59<ed_debian>locklace, The delta mode is that algorithm rsync uses to check if the files need to be sent before actually sending them. Correct?
18:00<locklace>no, it's the bit that sends only the differences (deltas)
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18:00<ed_debian>locklace, Oh ok. Thank you again! enjoy your beer
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18:01<interbird>cheap-ass ed_debian telling locklace to enjoy the beer ml| gave him :-)
18:02<ml|>it's all good :)
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18:06<interbird>deniz: i assume you found info like this, it's kinda old also:
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18:09<deniz>interbird, what's the difference between a priority of 0 and 1?
18:10<ed_debian>deniz, The 0 is used until it is filled, then the 1 is used
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18:10<ed_debian>If they are both 0 or both 1 then they will both be used together (performance boost)
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18:11<deniz>ed_debian, so then why would i want tto priotize one swap over the other if they boost eachother at same priority?
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18:11<interbird>deniz: man swapon says a higher number has a higer priority
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18:11<ed_debian>deniz, If one is a slower drive or something
18:12<ed_debian>interbird, oops, yeah that's right
18:13<deniz>well theyre both same speed but when gimp goes on a 10 gb crazy swap usage, i dont want main disk to be slow wen i use other apps cuz no it's ridiculously slow that it takes like 10 min per click to do sumtin about, so would lowering main disk's priority while having a second swap on external hd with higher priority solver my problem, thats wat i am trying to figure ou
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18:14<leejongwook>"language-env" <--- this is really bad, i might have to re-install whole system because of this
18:14<interbird>deniz: is the external disk usb connected? then the transfer rate is much lower than that of internal ide or sata
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18:14<deniz>interbird, usb 2.0
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18:15<leejongwook>it changed character setting and it doesn't have re-store functionality
18:15<interbird>deniz: you can use hdparm -t /dev/hdx or /dev/sdx to test the speed (x stand for the a,b,c...)
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18:15<leejongwook>... ah..
18:15<deniz>interbird, k ill save all this conversation because i have to study but thanks ill continue this later on
18:16<interbird>study swapfiles :-)
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18:22<paggas>hi, anyone have any idea why qjackctl's windows are drawn without an X button? thanks :)
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18:22<paggas>or maybe that's just how the new version is?
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18:25<interbird>paggas: because there is a butten with a big red x near the upper right hand of the corner; but i agree, it's not the same
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18:26<paggas>interbird: well, the message, status, connect and patchbay too have no X button :|
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18:29<interbird>paggas: yeah, i see, and close is also disabled from the sysmenu; you're right. now i have the same question as you :-(
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18:34<bob3>is it me or does it all seem a bit quiet in here?
18:35<abrotman>you just got here
18:35<bob3>see thats what I mean
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18:37<bob3>anybody able to help with xserver/ intel video problem ?
18:37<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
18:39<paggas>what dpkg spake :P
18:39<bob3> im running debian lenny on a panasonic w5 with intel 945 video and its unstable/ keeps throwing fatal errors
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18:40<ed_debian>bob3, Have you tried other video drivers? (IDK if there actually are any other options than what you're using)
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18:42<bob3>im using the latest for lenny. synaptic wont let me force a version
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18:46<enouf>bob3: try the vesa driver, there is no 945 xorg driver, afaik
18:46<enouf>bob3: try the vesa driver, there is no 945 xorg driver, afaik
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18:46<enouf>sorry 'bout the doubleing
18:48<themill>shouldn't xserver-xorg-video-intel support i945?
18:48<bob3>thats ok enouf, but it does mean the Agents are on out trail - dejavu
18:48<enouf>i would think so, but he said nothing about that driver
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18:49<enouf>bob3: too many black cats?
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18:49<bob3>themill, it does but the server keeps crashing randomly, I would upgrade to that used in SID but have not managed
18:49<bob3>enouf, exactly
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18:50<enouf>bob3: this time it was my keyboard and fat fingers though .. not the big M :-)
18:50<themill>bob3: anything in /var/log/Xorg.0.log from these crashes?
18:50<bob3>enouf, i try and have only have one a day
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18:51<enouf>bob3: you must sleep 23.9 hours per :-P
18:51<enouf>bob3: let
18:51<enouf>let's drop that all for now ...
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18:54<bob3>themill: yes, when it fails it fails trying to get memory something associated with an I830 call
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18:56<locklace>bob3: there are some known issues. you're right that when it comes to trying to install the sid version you're screwed, due to dependency hell
18:57<locklace>bob3: instead try updating to the sid kernel, that's an easy test and has at least a chance of making a difference
18:58<locklace>bob3: if that doesn't work you're going to have to fall back to a generic x driver like vesa or fb unless you can find a new intel driver backport
18:58<bob3>locklace: exactly.My problem is im on a world bike trip and rather need it to be stable and dont always have the best iNet access
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18:58<efege>hi, I need some help: installing the agrep package on etch, amd64
18:58<Slurb>all is well
18:58<locklace>bob3: that's no problem, popping in the sid kernel is simple and won't hurt your stable system, it will preserve your existing kernels
18:58<Slurb>i love debian sid
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18:59<abrotman>efege: why doesn't it work?
18:59<efege>the package is not available for etch
18:59<locklace>bob3: so if it doesn't help you can just boot back into the stable kernel and remove it again
18:59<Slurb>bob3: i would advise building your own from if you have the know how its easy
18:59<efege>should I try using the package for lenny?
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18:59<Slurb>google "kernel debian way"
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19:00<abrotman>efege: nope .. probably better to try to get the source, if it's available .. /msg dpkg source
19:00<efege>abrotman: yes, source is available
19:00<abrotman>so /msg dpkg source .. try to build it yourself
19:00<locklace>bob3: what's your architecture
19:01<bob3>locklace: thats an interesting idea, I can just apt-get the additional kernel, but dont understand if or how that will bring the xserver & driver along
19:01<locklace>bob3: no, don't apt-get it
19:01<bob3>locklace: x86
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19:01<locklace>bob3: i386 or amd64
19:01<locklace>bob3: or i686 or 486 or ...
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19:02<efege>abrotman: ok, thanks, I'll try that
19:03<bob3>locklace: i686
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19:03<Slurb>bob3: what is your problem
19:03<locklace>bob3: download this:
19:04<locklace>bob3: then just install it with dpkg -i.
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19:05<locklace>bob3: the installation will set it up as the default kernel, so just reboot into it and try your x again. if it doesn't help, reboot again but this time choosing the old kernel from the boot menu, then you can remove the sid kernel package with "aptitude remove".
19:05<bob3>locklace: thanks, Im off to give it a spin. Much appreciated
19:06<bob3>Slurb:thanks, but I locklace has me heading in the right direction
19:07<bob3>now where is my compass
19:07<locklace>odds are slim that this will actually help, but it's worth a shot since it's an easy test
19:09<bob3>locklace: ive heard this and many other intel problems are solved in the newer releases. and yes its worth a shot
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19:12<ml|>locklace: what is the difference between using aptitude and dpkg -i in this case?
19:13<xlotlu>bleh, laptop's nvidia gpu got fried
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19:13<xlotlu>fbdev to the rescue
19:14<fanti>hello! i've patched xorg source, downloaded via apt-get source xorg-server, and i like to build a debian package with a custom version-number, something like xserver-xorg-1.6.1.XXX. how can i rewrite the version-string?
19:15<locklace>xlotlu: is it a dell
19:15<xlotlu>locklace: toshiba
19:15<xlotlu>and this board wasn't supposed to have bad bumps :|
19:15<locklace>ml|: aptitude is for installing things from repositories
19:16<locklace>xlotlu: is that the 8400M?
19:16<xlotlu>locklace: nah, 7900GS
19:16<ml|>locklace: ah right and that kernel is not in the repos yet correct?
19:17<locklace>don't remember that one being on the bad-GPU list, but that doesn't mean much
19:17<xlotlu>yeah, given the crap nvidia did lately..
19:17<locklace>ml|: he's running stable, the last thing he wants to do is add a sid repo
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19:17<xlotlu>it just means i'm SOL, since warranty's gone...
19:17<locklace>xlotlu: actually the bad-GPU problems weren't just killing the GPUs, they were frying the mainboards
19:17<xlotlu>absolutely now way i'm *ever buying nvidia again
19:18<locklace>so i guess you got lucky
19:18<xlotlu>locklace: the gpu is a separate board on this model
19:18<ml|>locklace: ah got it thanks for explaining, knew i was missing something
19:19<xlotlu>pretty lucky, where lucky means i'll probably have to pay 50% of the original laptop price for the gpu, while its current value is some 25%..
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19:20<xlotlu>anyway, is it possible to make up for the distortion between the bios mode and the native resolution? in uvesa or xorg-fbdev?
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19:21<locklace>yeah, always reluctant with nvidia and their willingness to run boards at 3 times the temperature of the seventh circle of hell
19:22<locklace>and that's when they're idling
19:22<xlotlu>it's 1680x1050, and i have a choice of either 1280x1024-32 or 1400x1050-16..
19:22<locklace>xlotlu: what kind of distortion
19:22<locklace>you can edit the video modes and put in whatever you want, assuming your hardware supports it
19:22<xlotlu>can't decide which is crappier, the slightly heavier distortion, or the terrible colors
19:23<xlotlu>1280x1024-32 or 1400x1050-16 <-- that's what the vbios supports
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19:24<xlotlu>locklace: and it definitely went through some terrible thermal stress. between the sh*t bios and the nvidia blob, the fan didn't start spinning until it reached 115 celsius!
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19:25<xlotlu>i could "fix" it by overheating, then booting into windows (xp only), then rebooting back
19:25<xlotlu>and then the fan would stick to some low rpm, slowly heating over the hours until it hit 115 again
19:26<xlotlu>with their crap powermizer which dynamically underclocks it (and blinks the screen giving me headaches), it would stay at some reasonable 70-80 degrees
19:26-!-Caroll [~caroll@] has joined #debian
19:26<xlotlu>but if i plug in an external monitor (90% of the time) powermizer doesn't work..
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19:27<xlotlu>should've sold this piece of crap a long time ago, but was kinda reluctant wasting 50% of $2k..
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19:30<simonrvn>xlotlu: is it an onboard vid card?
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19:31<xlotlu>simonrvn: no, discrete
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19:31<ml|>xlotlu: what laptop is this
19:32<xlotlu>ml|: toshiba satellite p100
19:32<simonrvn>oh it's a lappy?
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19:32<xlotlu>yeah. a terribly expensive desktop replacement
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19:32<simonrvn>was about to say, swap the dumb thing out then.
19:32<xlotlu>that's what i'll probably do. and it's definitely gonna be expensive as hell
19:32<ml|>xlotlu: bought a while ago
19:33<xlotlu>ml|: 2 years ago
19:33<xlotlu>warranty voided by me though
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19:34<xlotlu>yeah, i popped it open to clean it up several times
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19:34<xlotlu>and changed the keyboard..
19:34<ml|>and that voided the warranty
19:34<xlotlu>couldn't afford habing it sit in service for weeks. it's my work computer
19:35<xlotlu>in this country, yeah
19:35<spy323>where am I?
19:35<ml|>hope it was not an extended waranty
19:36<spy323>i was setting up xchat and all of a sudden this opened up lol
19:36-!-user [] has joined #debian
19:36<ml|>if it's to costly to replace gpu, maybe get something new
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19:37<ml|>spy323: you in #debian
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19:40<spy323>since im in a debian irc....does anyone know how to uninstall boxee in ubuntu intrepid ibex
19:40<ml|>dpkg: tell spy323 about ubuntu
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19:40<xlotlu>hmm, the ubuntu xchat maintainers left the conf hanging around from upstream? :)
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19:41<QPrime>having issues with Lenny. After a fresh netionstall I
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19:42<xlotlu>nothing spectacular though, my debian-packaged compiz says Warn: Failed to load slide: /usr/share/gdm/themes/Human/ubuntu.png
19:42<QPrime>whoops! :P
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19:44<xlotlu>this is funny. youtube runs better with fbdev than with the nvidia blob....
19:44<QPrime>having issues with Lenny. After a fresh net install I'm unable to run my older Dell PE1300 with 2 processors using SMP (simply reboots when the kernel inits P0). works if I limit the number of processors from grub or use nosmp. Any ideas?
19:45<locklace>QPrime: try the kernel from sid
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19:47<sney>QPrime: there were some apic bugs with those older dell SMP boards too as I recall
19:47<sney>noapic/nolapic or both might fix your issue
19:48<QPrime>locklace / sney: I'll give the sid kernel a shot. noapic/nolapic results in the same reboot behavior. It does not surprise me about possible amp issues on this box as it is almost 10 years old now :(
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19:49<QPrime>well the box is actually newer, but the 1300 series is quite old
19:49<locklace>QPrime: what is your installation architecture (i386/amd64/686/...)
19:49<xlotlu>10-year old dual cpu laptop? o.O
19:50<sney>poweredge 1300... that's a xeon box as I recall
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19:51<QPrime>locklace: its actually a decrepit dual PII config with a PERC2 and two raid containers on 4 drivers
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19:52<efege>abrotman: I followed instructions from /msg dpkg source, and finally sudo dpkg -i file.deb; never done that before, thank you
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19:52<QPrime>I use this box for testing and poking at. but I have need of it as a temp DNS server for a few months now - and it obviously does not want to be put back to serious work :P
19:53<xlotlu>ah.. /me is locked in laptop mode thinking
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19:53<xlotlu>QPrime: i bet it eats watts for lunch, dinner and breakfast
19:54<hodgkin>can someone help figure out a wireless problem on an eee pc 1000HE
19:54<QPrime>gonna throw a sid kernel at it... brb.
19:54<xlotlu>hodgkin: there's #debian-eeepc right around the corner here
19:54<xlotlu>hodgkin: as well as
19:55<hodgkin>ah, thanks. i can try them out then if that's more appropriate
19:55<hodgkin>the wiki wasn't enough
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20:07<xlotlu>can xorg fbdev work mith multiple monitors?
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20:09<Sebby>how can i set time on Debian
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20:10<Sebby>i run Debian as server
20:10-!-hodgkin [] has quit [Quit: Let's test this thing out]
20:10<Slurb>i am not sure in console
20:11<abrotman>!set the time
20:11<dpkg>To set the time in debian, use date --set. The truly enlightened user, however, will install <ntp> to have their clock set automatically on reboot and slewed to match time servers. You may also need to run dpkg-reconfigure tzdata (lenny and later) or tzconfig (etch and earlier) to set the time zone, and verify the UTC setting in /etc/default/rcS prior.
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20:14<ml|>dpkg: tell Sebby about ntp
20:15-!-pab [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:15<Sebby>i installed ntp
20:15<Sebby>and noww runs
20:15<Sebby>but don`t know how to set clock to Europe/Bucharest
20:16<abrotman>!tell Sebby about the timezone
20:16<abrotman>!tell Sebby about timezone
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20:19<Sebby> dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
20:19<Sebby>Current default timezone: 'US/Eastern'
20:20<Sebby>Local time is now: Mon May 25 20:18:22 EDT 2009.
20:20<Sebby>Universal Time is now: Tue May 26 00:18:22 UTC 2009.
20:20<Sebby>Run 'tzconfig' if you wish to change it.
20:20-!-Sebby was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
20:20-!-Sebby [sebby@] has joined #debian
20:20<Sebby>when i try tzconfig says that is not installed
20:20<ml|>dpkg: tell Sebby about paste
20:20<ml|>Sebby: did it as root?
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20:21<abrotman>Sebby: are you on etch/sarge ?
20:21<Sebby>as i remember i have Debian 4
20:22<abrotman>that's etch
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20:24<ml|>Sebby: dpkg-reconfigure tzconfig <--- is that what youy used?
20:24-!-pab [] has joined #debian
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20:24<Sebby>when i use tzconfig it complains
20:24<Sebby>that is not installed
20:24-!-Gun_Smoke_ [] has joined #debian
20:24<ml|>tzdata worked?
20:25<Sebby>tzdata only shows me this info:
20:25-!-Chobo [] has joined #debian
20:25<Sebby>Current default timezone: 'US/Eastern'.
20:25<Sebby>Local time is now: Mon May 25 20:25:25 EDT 2009.
20:25<Sebby>Universal Time is now: Tue May 26 00:25:25 UTC 2009.
20:26<Sebby>Run 'tzconfig' if you wish to change it.
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20:26<Sebby>i need my timezone to be set to Europe/ Bucharest
20:26-!-napoly [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
20:27<Sebby>is now 03.26 in my country
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20:29<bja>Do you know where are your kids?
20:29<ml|>bja: huh
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20:30<Sebby>so what shold i do
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20:31<abrotman>Sebby: what's in /etc/timezone
20:31<bja>ml|: An old joke, never mind
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20:32<ml|>bja: oh
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20:35<Sebby>my time is GMT +2
20:35<xemacs4321>how do i set my clock to localtime not UTC ?
20:37<ml|>dpkg: tell xemacs4321 about set time
20:37<ml|>dpkg: tell xemacs4321 about ntp
20:38<Sebby>i managed to set time all by myself
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20:39<xemacs4321>how do i get irssi to show dpkg window ?
20:40<QPrime>locklace / sney: nope, latest sid kernel kills it dead as well :(
20:40<sney>hardware issue maybe
20:40<dr|z3d>dpkg-reconfigure irssi xemacs4321?
20:40<sney>when was the last time it was working fine
20:40-!-interbird [] has quit [Quit: Leaving (from a bitplane)]
20:40<ml|>xemacs4321: you should see it
20:40<bja>xemacs4321: alt and the arrows change from screen to the next
20:41<sney>those old P2 VRMs are just failures waiting to happen
20:41<sney>open the case and take a whiff
20:41<ml|>xemacs4321: or esc + a number
20:41<sney>they all explode eventually
20:42<ml|>Sebby: care to share your golden nugget?
20:43<bja>ml|: No food around the computers, and not talking about it when I AM on diete :)
20:43-!-shamanix [~none@] has joined #debian
20:44<Sebby>changed directory to /etc then ls |grep time
20:44-!-Nazcafan [] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
20:44<Sebby>and found 3 ziles
20:44<QPrime>sney: its been in mothballs for a while, pulled it out a few days ago and got it ready for a Lenny install. Its been in light duty use on and off. no odd smells from the case and it passes the dell diag and a 24hr memtest86+
20:44<QPrime>I've had Dell mobo VR caps blow up on be before, but this just seems to be a case of kernel not liking what the SMP bios is giving it *sigh*
20:45<sney>the dell diag and memtest86 only use the primary cpu
20:45<sney>you only hit a wall when it pokes CPU1
20:45<ml|>xemacs4321: i fine useful plus a few others
20:45<Sebby>timezone ,localtime,adjtime
20:45<ml|>for irssi
20:46<ml|>Sebby: right
20:46<Slurb>ml|: dcc it to me...
20:46<ml|>Slurb: one sec
20:47<Sebby>end edited timezone instand of US/.. i added Europe/..
20:47<Sebby>then dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
20:47<QPrime>sney: it *seems* to die when it inits p0 (first processor) I'll swap the processors around and see if its an actual processor issue. brb.
20:47<Sebby>and asked me about how i wont to configure time
20:49-!-hodgkin [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:49<ml|>Sebby: good job, thanks for sharing ;)
20:50-!-michelle_ [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:51<Slurb>ml|: thx
20:51<ml|>Slurb: like it?
20:51<sney>QPrime: don't forget to look at those VRMs if they're separate
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20:53<ml|>guess not :P
20:53<QPrime>sney: the only nice thing about these old SECC processors is they are so damn big its easy to muck with them - looks like VRM is on-board, don't see any vrm modules.
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20:53<sney>the other nice thing about them is the easy heat dissipation
20:53-!-azeem [] has joined #debian
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20:57<QPrime>sney: hmmm... may have just been a bad processor contact. after an inital swap I've got both processors in and 2.6.29 sees them both - got good info on both of then from /proc
20:57-!-cmoney [] has joined #debian
20:57<QPrime>gonna give the contacts a good clean, swap again and see what I get.
20:58<ml|>QPrime: slot processors?
20:58<QPrime>yup. old secc PII's
20:58-!-cmoney [] has quit []
20:58<ml|>hehe, i have an old pII here :)
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20:59<sney>I used a PII-450 as my main computer for way longer than i should have
20:59<sney>the linux support for it was so good, is my only excuse
20:59<ml|>sney: same here but 300mhz
20:59*QPrime hunts down the alcohol and a swab...
21:00<dr|z3d>PII 450? You mean a PIII :)
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21:00<dr|z3d>Afaik, P2's stopped at 400Mhz.
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21:01-!-mode/#debian [+l 398] by debhelper
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21:01<shamanix>I believe they stoped at 450 or 500, however they where rare
21:02-!-seeker [] has joined #debian
21:03<seeker>i have a realtec sound card that my debian system is not recognizing
21:03<shamanix>sney you where lucky I used a goddamn celeron 300mhz (the one with no L2 cache!) for far too long way back
21:03<seeker>it works well when I have my 98 drive in the system
21:03<dr|z3d>shamanix: Aha, there was a 450Mhz P2.
21:03<sney>shamanix: but that was the one that you could overclock to obscene levels wasn't it
21:04<sney>that's not so bad then.
21:04<shamanix>I heard of people clocking it to 500mhz, I only ran it at 375
21:05-!-Slurb [] has joined #debian
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21:05<teratoma> /win 2
21:06<seeker>any one have a solution to my sound card problem
21:07<sney>needs to be more specific, seeker. realtek makes a lot of sound cards
21:07<seeker>ok hold on\
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21:07<Slurb>i think i like this client better than irssi
21:08<ed_debian>What package do I need to give archive manager support for .rar archives?
21:08<seeker>sney: how do i find out what it is. what is the same as device manager in debian
21:08<ml|>ed_debian: unrar /
21:08<jrabbit>ed_debian: unrar
21:09<ed_debian>The point goes to ml|!
21:09<ed_debian>thanks guys
21:09<sney>seeker: lspci will show you your pci devices
21:09<seeker>sney: be right with the answer
21:10<ml|>Slurb: what client would that be?
21:10<sney>just version him!
21:11-!-bbcdd [~bbcdd@] has joined #debian
21:11<ml|>sney: thanks forgot ;)
21:11<Slurb>i forget
21:12<Slurb>what is it again?
21:12<ml|>VERSION reply from Slurb: KVIrc 3.4.0 'Virgo' 20080323 - build Sun Oct 26 22:50:56 UTC 2008 - x86_64-bcefikoprsAGTZ - Linux (
21:12<ed_debian>(it's actually called unrar-free now)
21:12<seeker>sney: rockwell international riptide pci audio controller
21:12<Slurb>yeah kvirc thats it
21:13<ml|>Slurb: you can version your self tho :P
21:13<Slurb>i tried
21:14<ml|>ed_debian: there are two versions free and non free
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21:15<ed_debian>o ok
21:15<interbird>when i version myself the string ends in 'obsolete release' :-)
21:15<QPrime>sney: well, processor contacts are now clean and processors are back in their original slots. both 2.6.26 and 2.6.29 are happy with what they see. it was pretty clear after the sid kernel chocked that it MUST have been a hw issue. Thanks for the assist sney!
21:16<sney>no problem
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21:16<seeker>sney: did you get the info on the rockwell audio controller
21:16<sney>that's actually *less* info than I had before, seeker, heh. hang on while I look something up
21:16<ml|>interbird: works here.. CTCP VERSION reply from ml|: irssi v0.8.13
21:17<seeker>sney: ok sorry that is what came up with lspci
21:17<interbird>ml|: i was jokin' -- meant versioning myself myself :-)
21:17-!-msantana [darkstar@] has joined #debian
21:17<sney>seeker: so there was nothing like rtl and some numbers? I thought you said it was realtek
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21:19<ml|>interbird: haha ;)
21:19<interbird>yesterday it was still ancient :-)
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21:21<sney>seeker: ?
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21:22<interbird>i have this ntp problem; when i boot time is 2 hours early; does not correct after wifi is up; timezone is set correctly afaik; have to /etc/init.d/ntp restart any idea anyone ?
21:23<sney>doublecheck that timezone
21:23<sney>and check your hwclock
21:23<shamanix>didn't even know rockwell makes sound cards, and I've been fixing computers for 13+ years
21:24<sney>shamanix: a quick google of "rockwell riptide" returns a bunch of mentions of a combination 56k modem and sound card
21:24-!-pbn [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:24<sney>so I'm figuring it's that, only no real information about what it really is beyond the brand name
21:24-!-pbn [] has joined #debian
21:25<interbird>sney: hwclock does not matter; ntp should sync; timezone europe/amsterdam; correct for me; don't understand why ntp does not sync after wifi is up
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21:27<dkr>ntp won't correct more than a certain amount of hours I believe. need to run ntpdate first, I vaguely recall
21:28<ml|>dpkg: ntpdate
21:28<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, ntpdate is a program that sets a system's clock using one of more NTP-servers. It's useful for setting the time occasionally (like on boot or connecting to internet). ask me about ntp. Instead of using this obsolete and unmaintained program, just run ntp-server, add the 'iburst' option to the 'server' lines in ntp.conf, and make sure -g is among the NTPD_OPTS in /etc/default/ntp.
21:28<sney>oh man, the rockwell riptide is that horrible thing that used to be included in hp pavilions
21:29<ml|>interbird: using lenny?
21:29-!-AbsintheSyringe [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:29<dkr>ah, -g disables that default behaviour of not correctingif off by more than 1000 seconds
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21:30<sney>seeker: my suggestion to you is get a real sound card. soundblaster live is old enough to be very cheap now, and they're supported very well under all linux distributions
21:30-!-calfaro [] has joined #debian
21:30<sney>and it'll also sound way better than that horrible modem thing that you're trying to use now
21:30*shamanix regrets the day he sold his SBLive!
21:30<ml|>me too
21:30<sney>you fool
21:30<sney>I still use mine
21:31<shamanix>bang for buck its unbeatable
21:31<sney>cpu and memory usage is almost zero and it sounds way better than pretty much any onboard solution you'll get nowadays
21:31<sney>and who really needs 8 speakers anyay
21:31<ml|>yeah true
21:32<ml|>but Realtek ALC888 works fine here :)
21:33<interbird>ml|: flags all there: iburst and -g; no, squeeze
21:34-!-msantana [darkstar@] has quit [Quit: Saindo]
21:34<interbird>but only has the iburst flag, the others not, so i'll place it there too
21:34<bbcdd>Best rugged laptop to put Debian Linux on and use Compiz? Toughbook 52 or another brand?
21:36<ml|>interbird: in the us?
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21:38<sney>bbcdd: toughbook 52 is a centrino notebook, which means linux support will be at the very least decent but probably better... I'd say it's a good choice if not the best
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21:39<seeker>sney: sorry I got called away. you are right it is a hp pavillion. thanks for your advice. later
21:39-!-TongueOfColicab [~alexis@] has joined #debian
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21:40<TongueOfColicab>muy buenas recien he instalado debian 5.0 en mi ordenador y necesito ayuda con dos cosas
21:40<TongueOfColicab>1ero no logro reproducir el audio
21:40<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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21:41*sney looks at ml|
21:42*ml| looks at sney
21:42<sney>just seeing if you were going to !br
21:42-!-hobbestigrou_ [] has joined #debian
21:43<ml|>hah that is espanol
21:43<sney>you're learning!
21:43-!-chitchat [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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21:44<interbird>or it, my ntp causes lang-bugs
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21:45<ml|>interbird: are you in the us?
21:45<interbird>ml|: no
21:45<TongueOfColicab>i need help with 2 troubles
21:45<TongueOfColicab>in debian 5.0
21:46<TongueOfColicab>ive recently installed it on my pc, and i dont get play the audio
21:46<abrotman>is your user in the audio group?
21:46<TongueOfColicab>i remember when i used to use woody i had to give permission for "No root" user to use the sound device
21:46-!-philsf [~philsf@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
21:47<ml|>interbird: look for a server closer to you at, i think that would help
21:47<TongueOfColicab>where can i check that?
21:47<interbird>see with id yourusername if you are a member of audio
21:47<ml|>TongueOfColicab: groups
21:47-!-xxiao [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
21:48<TongueOfColicab>uid=1000(alexis) gid=1000(alexis) grupos=1000(alexis),20(dialout),24(cdrom),25(floppy),29(audio),44(video),46(plugdev)
21:49-!-xxiao [] has joined #debian
21:49<interbird>ml|: yeah, but these servers always worked with debian, only now on squeeze it's broken and i'm curious why. already tries closer servers and didn't work. after manual restart of ntp it syncs.
21:49<interbird>you are member of audio, so that's ok
21:50<interbird>you can look what your soundcard is with lspci
21:50<interbird>what is it for one ?
21:50-!-bloom [] has joined #debian
21:51<TongueOfColicab>00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) HD Audio Controller (rev 02)
21:52<abrotman>does sound work for root ?
21:53<TongueOfColicab>i just have desktop enviroment for "no root" use
21:53<abrotman>TongueOfColicab: but there is a root user?
21:53<TongueOfColicab>wait im going to open something with root user
21:54<interbird>do you have a /dev/dsp device ? so, does ls -la /dev/dsp show a line ?
21:55<interbird>if not, then try this command as root: modprobe snd_intel8x0
21:56-!-ajonat [~ajonat@] has quit [Quit: ajonat]
21:58<TongueOfColicab>ls: no se puede acceder a /dev/dsp: No existe el fichero o el directorio
21:58<interbird>if not, then try this command as root: modprobe snd_intel8x0
21:58<TongueOfColicab>nothing happens
21:59<interbird>what does ls -la /dev/dsp say now ?
21:59<TongueOfColicab>same thing
21:59<TongueOfColicab>alexisdebian:/# modprobe snd_intel8x0
21:59<interbird>try modprobe snd
21:59<TongueOfColicab>same thing
22:00<interbird>then check again for /dev/dsp
22:00<TongueOfColicab>alexisdebian:/# modprobe snd
22:00<TongueOfColicab>alexisdebian:/# ls -la /dev/dsp
22:00<TongueOfColicab>ls: no se puede acceder a /dev/dsp: No existe el fichero o el directorio
22:00<interbird>does lsmod|grep snd_intel show a line ?
22:01<TongueOfColicab>alexisdebian:/# lsmod|grep snd_intel
22:01<TongueOfColicab>snd_intel8x0 26268 0
22:01<TongueOfColicab>snd_ac97_codec 88484 1 snd_intel8x0
22:01<TongueOfColicab>snd_pcm 62596 3 snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_hda_intel
22:01<TongueOfColicab>snd 45604 13 snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_hda_intel,snd_pcm,snd_seq,snd_timer,snd_seq_device
22:01-!-TongueOfColicab was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
22:01<abrotman>!which driver
22:01<dpkg>To work out what module you need to load for your PCI card, try pasting the output from "lspci -n" into . To determine the driver currently associated with an existing network interface: grep PHYSDEVDRIVER /sys/class/net/*/uevent
22:02-!-TongueOfColicab [~alexis@] has joined #debian
22:02<ml|>hah saw that coming, should had said something
22:02<TongueOfColicab>sorry i was kicked out
22:02<interbird>ok, that looks good, now do ls -la /dev/dsp*
22:02<ml|>dpkg: tell TongueOfColicab about pastebin
22:02<interbird>could be dsp1
22:02-!-sward [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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22:02<TongueOfColicab>alexisdebian:/# ls -la /dev/dsp*
22:02<TongueOfColicab>ls: no se puede acceder a /dev/dsp*: No existe el fichero o el directorio
22:03<abrotman>!which driver
22:03<dpkg>To work out what module you need to load for your PCI card, try pasting the output from "lspci -n" into . To determine the driver currently associated with an existing network interface: grep PHYSDEVDRIVER /sys/class/net/*/uevent
22:03<interbird>hmm, looks like the drive is loaded but de device node does not exist
22:04<interbird>do a /etc/init.d/udev restart
22:04<interbird>as root
22:04<interbird>then check for /dev/dsp* again
22:04<TongueOfColicab>Stopping the hotplug events dispatcher: udevd.
22:04<TongueOfColicab>Starting the hotplug events dispatcher: udevd.
22:05<TongueOfColicab>alexisdebian:/# ls -la /dev/dsp*
22:05<TongueOfColicab>ls: no se puede acceder a /dev/dsp*: No existe el fichero o el directorio
22:05<TongueOfColicab>what about dpkg solution?
22:05*interbird scratches his suddenly went bold head
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22:06<shamanix>this isn't going to help much but ...
22:06<dpkg>A real soundcard (or a good soundcard, or better than bad) does hardware mixing, that means, play more audio streams at once, without any sounddaemons and similar things. They are not expensive (depends on your demands of quality, but in general) get one and be happy.
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22:07<TongueOfColicab>any other OS recognize the sound
22:08<TongueOfColicab>dont know why this problem here
22:08<interbird>the device node is absent in /dev; so there is no sound-device; mixer present or not
22:09<interbird>TongueOfColicab: can you paste the outcome of lsmod in the pasebin ?
22:09<TongueOfColicab>ok wait
22:12<abrotman>lspci -nn .. show us the sound card line
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22:13<TongueOfColicab>00:1b.0 Audio device [0403]: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) HD Audio Controller [8086:293e] (rev 02)
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22:14<abrotman>it should be working with the snd-hda-intel driver
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22:15<interbird>TongueOfColicab: do modprobe snd_intel8x0m
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22:15<interbird>and check /dev/dsp* again
22:15-!-mentor is now known as Guest116
22:15<Hideo_Kuze>no, it should be what abrotman said, shouldn't it?
22:16<Hideo_Kuze>I have the same exact soundcard, I use snd-hda-intel also
22:16<abrotman>judd: pciid 8086:293e
22:16<judd>abrotman: [8086:293e] is '82801I (ICH9 Family) HD Audio Controller' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel module 'snd-hda-intel' in lenny. See also
22:16<TongueOfColicab>alexisdebian:/# ls -la /dev/dsp*
22:16<TongueOfColicab>ls: no se puede acceder a /dev/dsp*: No existe el fichero o el directorio
22:16<TongueOfColicab>same thing
22:16<interbird>i have the same card too and snd_hda_intel is not in my lsmod
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22:16<abrotman>did you also modprobe snd_pcm_oss ?
22:17<TongueOfColicab>alexisdebian:/# modprobe snd_pcm_oss
22:17<TongueOfColicab>alexisdebian:/# ls -la /dev/dsp*
22:17<TongueOfColicab>crw-rw---- 1 root audio 14, 3 may 26 04:17 /dev/dsp
22:17<interbird>yep !
22:17<interbird>that's it, what did the trick ?
22:17<Hideo_Kuze>the oss driver
22:17<bloom>TongueOfColicab: without snd_pcm_oss, you'll still have sound support but only ALSA device files in /dev/snd will appear
22:18<bloom>TongueOfColicab: but it was snd_hda_intel that made the hardware work
22:18<bloom>TongueOfColicab: snd_pcm_oss just makes a compatibility API work
22:18<TongueOfColicab>im a little confused but trying to understand
22:19<Hideo_Kuze>why don't they load by default?
22:19<Hideo_Kuze>mine does
22:19<bloom>Hideo_Kuze: and what's your sound card?
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22:19<Hideo_Kuze>bloom: same thing he has
22:20<bloom>Hideo_Kuze: I don't know what the problem is, but I saw it's an Ubuntu bug as well
22:20<Hideo_Kuze>bloom: I was asking why his drivers don't load by default :P
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22:20<abrotman>he could always put it in /etc/modules
22:20<Hideo_Kuze>just add those drivers to /etc/modules and update-initramfs I guess
22:21<abrotman>shouldn't have to update initramfs
22:21<Hideo_Kuze>oh :)
22:21<bloom>what kernel version is he running? is it new enough to know the PCI device IDs?
22:21<abrotman>assuming lenny .. should be
22:22<TongueOfColicab>well as you may know i have sound now
22:22<interbird>yeah, can hear it all the way over here :-)
22:22<TongueOfColicab>i have to do that modprobe always?
22:22<ml|>judd: kernel
22:22<judd>ml|: Available kernel versions are: trunk: 2.6.29-trunk-686 (2.6.29-1~experimental.2~snapshot.13314); sid: 2.6.29-2-686 (2.6.29-5); squeeze: 2.6.26-2-686 (2.6.26-15); lenny: 2.6.26-2-686 (2.6.26-15); etchnhalf: 2.6.24-etchnhalf.1-686 (2.6.24-6~etchnhalf.8); etch: 2.6.18-6-686 (2.6.18.dfsg.1-24)
22:22<abrotman>he could always put it in /etc/modules
22:23<interbird>no, add it to /etc/modules like abrotman proposed
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22:23<TongueOfColicab>what exactly should i add to /etc/modules
22:24<TongueOfColicab>a bash file with that sintax
22:24<bloom>as root, run the following command
22:24<bloom>echo snd_hda_intel >> /etc/modules
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22:24<bloom>echo snd_pcm_oss >> /etc/modules
22:24<interbird>as root
22:25<abrotman>and you *really* need the >>
22:25<bloom>you just list module names in /etc/modules, one per line
22:25<interbird>now tey'll get loaded on next reboot
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22:26<TongueOfColicab>nice that sounds great l
22:26<TongueOfColicab>thanks a lot
22:27<TongueOfColicab>second prob
22:27<TongueOfColicab>as i said i recently installed the lenny
22:27<TongueOfColicab>its default desktop envoriment is gnome
22:27<TongueOfColicab>i want to use kde
22:28<TongueOfColicab>i look for it in synaptic
22:28<abrotman>TongueOfColicab: aptitude install xorg kde kdm
22:28<tone>everyone on my system wants 1024x768. I've edited the xorg.conf for such. everything's cool except i can't make it stick for one user, X reverts to another resolution upon starting for him. what can i do on a per-user basis?
22:28<interbird>gnome ?
22:29<interbird>you can set the display resolution on a per user basis on the preferences
22:29<interbird>no need to fiddle with xorg.conf
22:29<TongueOfColicab>0 paquetes actualizados, 411 nuevos instalados, 0 para eliminar y 0 sin actualizar.
22:29<TongueOfColicab>Necesito descargar 336MB/340MB de ficheros. Después de desempaquetar se usarán 861MB.
22:29<TongueOfColicab>is it right?
22:30<ml|>TongueOfColicab: pastebin the whole thing
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22:30<tone>interbird: but why only one user's fscked up? when xorg.conf is sytem-wide?
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22:31<interbird>tone: what do you mean one user f'd up? then he/she played with the settings in gnome ?
22:31<ranix>f'd up sounds a lot like !doesn't work
22:32<Hideo_Kuze>wow kde wants to install so MUCH crap
22:32<interbird>TongueOfColicab: looks good
22:32<interbird>kde+related stuff is BIG
22:32<ml|>TongueOfColicab: look s about right you should update first tho
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22:32<TongueOfColicab>i can unmark somethings if i do check kde on synaptic
22:32-!-jtaji [] has joined #debian
22:32<ranix>kde+related stuff is bloat
22:33<tone>interbird: i personally have been trying to set it for her inside of her gnome environment.
22:33<Hideo_Kuze>yeah, "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade && apt-get install xorg kde kdm"
22:33<ranix>tone: I want to get inside her gnome environment, if you know what I mean
22:33<ml|>!why aptitude
22:33<dpkg>aptitude has more advanced conflict/dependency resolution than other tools, it has far more advanced searching available, and will automatically uninstall unneeded dependencies, read /usr/share/doc/aptitude/README for more info. Aptitude can also remove or purge one package at the same time as installing others all from the command line, making it much easier to recover from broken dependencies.
22:33<Hideo_Kuze>ml|: =P screw aptitude, I love apt-get
22:34<abrotman>regardless .. it's still the recommended tool
22:34<tone>ranix: i'll put you on the list
22:34<dpkg>ranix: VATTENE VIA
22:34<ml|>Hideo_Kuze: ok, your choice
22:34<TongueOfColicab>done, update, upgrade, install
22:34<TongueOfColicab>same thing
22:34<TongueOfColicab>same weight
22:34<Hideo_Kuze>ml|: yep Debian is all about choices =P
22:34<interbird>tone: and it did not stay the same? after reboot or so?
22:35<tone>interbird: correct. after an X server restart it reverts
22:35<TongueOfColicab>or can i unmark some programs i think i wont use
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22:36<TongueOfColicab>i think i wont use kde-libs
22:36<interbird>tone: and for other users is works, but just not for her ?
22:36<ml|>TongueOfColicab: you can try but kde my depend on them
22:36<TongueOfColicab>gg just kidding
22:36<tone>interbird: correct
22:36<ranix>what is the average airspeed velocity of a fully-laden interbird
22:36<ml|>TongueOfColicab: :P
22:36<tone>TongueOfColicab: it looks like alot more than it is. some libs, some utils...
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22:37<interbird>tone: sounds like a gnome (gconf) error or some; see is newly created test user has the same problem
22:38<TongueOfColicab>ok downloading
22:38<interbird>are you conected by telephone dialup ?
22:38<ranix>dpkg: I don't speak italian
22:38<dpkg>no idea, ranix
22:38<TongueOfColicab>who me?
22:39<tone>interbird: thank you i will.
22:39<interbird>yes, i was just jokin'
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22:39<TongueOfColicab>am in El Salvador
22:39<TongueOfColicab>i use a cablemodem
22:39<TongueOfColicab>to connect internet
22:39-!-tone [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:40<TongueOfColicab>we have 1 Mbps connections for $40 at month, expensive dont you think?
22:41<interbird>compared with here (holland) yes, but still fairly fast
22:41<ml|>a bit, but better than dialup
22:41<TongueOfColicab>you're very far
22:42<TongueOfColicab>things are very differents in our countries
22:42<dkr>welcome to the internet. :)
22:42<interbird>still i could hear it when your sound started working
22:42<TongueOfColicab>yeah right i have a very big bass
22:42<xlotlu>i wonder if i can hack nvidia's vbios to add a custom resolution
22:42<xlotlu>much like i915resolution
22:42<interbird>we had a micro tidlewave here for a sec
22:42<TongueOfColicab>im sure you heard that
22:43*interbird just grabbing the legs of his chair and manouvres back into it...
22:43<Hideo_Kuze>*tidal wave
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22:44<interbird>that's what i meant
22:45<interbird>but it was a microscopic one, so a bit tidle
22:45<TongueOfColicab>what about the holland girls??? gg, are they beautiful?? ;)
22:45<interbird>i like your girls more
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22:49<TongueOfColicab>i suppose u like the latin girls
22:50<dpkg>Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic (i.e., Debian support); imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. #debian-offtopic is the place for longer off-topic discussions.
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22:51<TongueOfColicab>i cant show u then =)
22:52<ml|> /join #debian-offtopic :)
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23:32<TongueOfColicab>have 96% downloaded of kde
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23:36<interbird>then the install starts, which will take some time too
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23:36<TongueOfColicab>hey why you lost the pics i was showing on offtopic
23:37<TongueOfColicab>very busy i suppose
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23:39<TongueOfColicab>BTW, can i replace Grub for lilo?
23:39-!-angasule [~angasule@] has joined #debian
23:39<interbird>would not reccomend it, why would you do that ?
23:39<Hideo>grub is good
23:39<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, lilo is the LInux LOader, and the head of staff of (who isn't named after the LInux LOader)
23:40<interbird>you are using lilo now ?
23:40<TongueOfColicab>'cause i remember lilo had a lot of themes
23:40<TongueOfColicab>im not sure
23:40<TongueOfColicab>when i install i chose grub
23:40<ed_debian>grub has themes
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23:41<TongueOfColicab>i just know the menu.lst file
23:41<ed_debian>you can set pics and stuff
23:41-!-vb [] has quit []
23:41<ed_debian>I don't know how in depth it was cause I've never done it. But I know you can set pictures
23:41<ed_debian>lol yeah stuff
23:41<TongueOfColicab>sorry i speak english at 60% maybe
23:42<ed_debian>o, stuff means things
23:42<ed_debian>What language do you speak primarily?
23:42<TongueOfColicab>well kde configuration finished
23:42-!-Gekz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:42<TongueOfColicab>Yo hablo español jeje entiendes esto?
23:42<ed_debian>no :( lol
23:43<TongueOfColicab>how can i change to kde now that it is installed?
23:44<ml|>are you in gnome?
23:44<interbird>make kdm your default login manager or set kde as default in gdm
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23:44<TongueOfColicab>well i chose kdm when configuration process asked me
23:44<ed_debian>logout, click session (near the bottom) select KDE, log in
23:44<TongueOfColicab>ok ill be back soon
23:45-!-Gekz [] has joined #debian
23:45<interbird>/etc/X11/dedault-display-manager to kdm
23:45-!-TongueOfColicab [~alexis@] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
23:45<ml|>he missed that
23:45<ed_debian>o well lol
23:45<interbird>will repeat when he's back
23:45<ml|>yeah he'll beback
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23:47<TongueOfColicab>hi, am a kde user
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23:47<ml|>!congratulate TongueOfColicab
23:47<dpkg>Hugs & Puppies TongueOfColicab, you did it!
23:47-!-cpineda [~cpineda@] has quit []
23:47<TongueOfColicab>i think i would have to search more pics to say thanks
23:47-!-cpineda [~cpineda@] has joined #debian
23:47<ml|>TongueOfColicab: it's cool no need :)
23:48<TongueOfColicab>and BTW
23:48-!-cpineda [~cpineda@] has quit []
23:48<TongueOfColicab>it sounds
23:48<ml|>interbird: ^
23:48<ml|>that's a plus
23:49<interbird>ml|: ?
23:49<ml|>< interbird> will repeat when he's back
23:49<ml|>short memory hehe
23:49<interbird>ml|: sounds like the kde install changed it for him
23:50<ml|>oh so no need then?
23:50<interbird>/etc/X11/default-display-manager should read .../kdm
23:50<ed_debian>You can use the GDM to log into KDE. You don't need to switch to KDM
23:50<Hideo>TongueOfColicab: cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager
23:50<TongueOfColicab>i chose use kde as default on login screen
23:50*ml| doesn't use a dm
23:50<interbird>you see...
23:51<Hideo>ml|: startx ?
23:51<ml|>yes :)
23:51<ed_debian>ml|, What are the benefits?
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23:51<TongueOfColicab>have to do that cat ...???
23:51<ml|>TongueOfColicab: no that cat is ok :)
23:51-!-nike [] has joined #debian
23:52<Hideo>TongueOfColicab: "cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager" just to check to make sure
23:52<ml|>ed_debian: less time for startup less memory usage etc...
23:52<interbird>change /usr/bin/gdm to /usr/bin/kdm in that file to use the kde login-manager
23:53<TongueOfColicab>alexisdebian:/home/alexis# cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager
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23:53<ed_debian>ml|, So you boot, go through grub / boot sequence yada-yada. Then you get dumped to a terminal. You login and "startx" ?
23:53<interbird>already kdm, thought so, kde-config changed that...
23:53<ml|>ed_debian: yes
23:54<ml|>ed_debian: what de?
23:54<Hideo>ml|: I'm using slim , it's decent enough, doesn't seem to be as bad as gdm
23:54-!-syno872 [] has joined #debian
23:54<TongueOfColicab>how can i use a theme for grub
23:54<ed_debian>ml|, I'm using gnome. How do I set it up so that I don't have GDM (exactly how you have it set up) ?
23:54<ml|>Hideo: yeah nut i lke startx :)
23:54<shamanix>hmm, I'll try making myself one of those fancy ascii/ansii logins one day
23:55<TongueOfColicab>to have a more beautiful boot screen
23:55<Hideo>but when you run into trouble, a beautiful boot screen is a useless boot screen ;)
23:56<ml|>ed_debian: you would use ~/.xession exec gnome or exec gnome-session <--- should work but i don't use gnome
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23:56<shamanix>boot/grub/splashimages copy xpm.gz files there
23:56<ml|>dpkg: tell ed_debian about xsession
23:57<shamanix>after that you may need update-grub, im not sure, I'll try this when I backed up everything
---Logclosed Tue May 26 00:00:03 2009