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#debian IRC Logs for 2009-06-05

---Logopened Fri Jun 05 00:00:46 2009
---Daychanged Fri Jun 05 2009
00:00<karlw>So like
00:01<Supaplex>yeah. if that's the maintainer.
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00:02<dmoerner>karlw, there is no centralized scheme project
00:02<dmoerner>i maintain ypsilon and scheme48 however
00:03<dmoerner>and its
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00:03<Supaplex>time to brew another scheme. ;)
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00:06<karlw>Do you know anything about which implementation most people use nowadays?
00:08<dmoerner>karlw, r6rs or r5rs? obviously err5rs is best supported by larceny but that's not in debian
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00:09<karlw>R6RS goes a bit overboard in my opinion..
00:10<dmoerner>karlw, well you might want to check popcon, mit-scheme is certainly popular and i'd like to think that some people use scheme48
00:11<dmoerner>i personally prefer r6rs, debian currently has ikarus, ypsilon, and plt-scheme as r6rs-compliant interpreters
00:11<karlw>R6RS isn't terrible. Anyway, I think it's really important to stay professional.
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00:12<dmoerner>i have a mosh .deb if you want but i haven't filed an itp yet, each has its benefits (ikarus for speed, ypsilon for ffi, plt-scheme for the kitchen sink)
00:13<karlw>Is Ikarus still actively developed?
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00:15<karlw>It's a good idea to have a well-maintained and portable incremental compiler.
00:16<karlw>Sorry if my questions seem dumb, I'm sort of a noob.
00:16*Supaplex is aloof
00:17<dmoerner>karlw, you might want to take these questions to #scheme on freenode, ikarus hasn't had a release in over a year but the bzr development branch seems to have activity
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00:20<mastifal25>Hello all people
00:21<karlw>Okay, I'll investigate more and mail a maintainer when I've thought of something more concrete.
00:22<mastifal25>more concrete how what?
00:22<Supaplex>than silly putty
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00:23<Supaplex>oh look, another ubuntu defector.
00:24<mastifal25>hola ubuntu_
00:24<ubuntu_>esto pa que sirve
00:24<mastifal25>Supaplex, do you speaking spanish?
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00:24<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
00:25<Supaplex>taco burrito nachos salsa enchelada
00:25<ml|>yummy can i have some?
00:25<mastifal25>thank you dpkg =)
00:25<Supaplex>all you can eat.
00:26*Supaplex waits for ml| to explode *F0O0O0OM*
00:26<Supaplex>oops. too much alkaselser.
00:27<ml|>dpkg: rocks
00:27<dpkg>Yer damned right...
00:28<ubuntu_>que bersiones delinux utilizan
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00:28<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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01:27<leejongwook>hi :)
01:27<leejongwook>have good day everyone :)
01:27<leejongwook>bye ~ :)
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01:39<tenzind>hi, I want to creat a chroot environment on my external USB hard disk. But i get this error while running debootstrap: "E: Cannot install into target '/media/jurgay/build/chroot-lenny' mounted with noexec or nodev" . I have this line in /etc/fstab: "/dev/sdb1 /media/jurgay vfat rw,user,exec,dev,noauto 0 0" what could the problem be?
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01:44<compgrokker>tenzind: what does it say in /etc/mtab?
01:45<tenzind>compgrokker: ahh.. /etc/mtab says something completely different. it says: "/dev/sdb1 /media/jurgay vfat rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev 0 0"
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01:50<compgrokker>tenzind: hmm doesn't say anything in mount's manpage about those options not working for vfat
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01:50<jm_>at least nodev has no meaning for vfat - you can't have device files on it
01:51<compgrokker>ah that explains it
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01:51<compgrokker>tenzind: any specific reason for using vfat, anyway?
01:51<tenzind>jm_: so its not possible to creat a chroot on a vfat ?
01:52<jm_>tenzind: nope, not for this anyway
01:53<tenzind>compgrokker: have to keep it accessible by windows for my bro's movies .. :(
01:53<compgrokker>ah hmm
01:53<jm_>in that case you could create a file and loop mount it, but it's not as flexible and you're limited in size
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01:56<tenzind>may be ntfs-3g is an option ?
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01:58<mohed>hello again =)
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02:01<tenzind>man dd
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02:01<tenzind>oops ..
02:02<compgrokker>man: command not found
02:05<jm_>back then linux had umsdos that allowed you to have it on fat, let's see if it still exists
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02:06<jm_>ahh no removed from 2.6
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02:37<huwaw69>hi can anyone here help me install debian?
02:39<jm_>!install debian
02:39<dpkg>There are a myriad different ways to install Debian. See for a list of images. Ask me about <install guide> and <d-i> for detailed instructions. (If you've never installed Debian before, you should read the install guide.)
02:39<ml|>!install guide
02:39<dpkg>The Debian Installation Guide for Lenny (5.0.1) can be found at and for Etch (4.0r8) at . See also <errata> and <installer firmware>.
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03:04<mohed>is emphaty removable ?? when i trye in synapsis it wants to also remove gnome
03:04<mohed>sorry ist epiphany
03:05<jm_>mohed: gnome is just a meta package
03:05<mohed>meaning ??
03:06<Supaplex>it's safe to remove
03:06<dpkg>i heard metapackage is a package that normally exists for convenience. It has no content, it just depends on other packages so that you don't have to have a hundred things on an apt-get command line. Roy Rogers never metapackage he didn't like. it's supposed to be WILL rogers The version of a metapackage can be misleading -- look at what it depends on instead (see the kde metapackage for an example).
03:07<jm_>wtf is that rogers thing in there?
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03:10<mohed>so how do I check if a package is a meta package or not ??
03:10<mohed>like gnome-desktop-environment
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03:11<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or for pics. Use for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Just use pastebinit (package) if you cannot cut & paste.
03:12<Supaplex>use apt-cache show
03:12<Supaplex>Tags: interface::x11, role::metapackage, special::meta, suite::gnome, uitoolkit::gtk, use::gameplaying
03:12<Supaplex>or aptitude show
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03:14<ml|>or inside aptitude, just hit enter on the package name qnd use q to go back
03:15<mohed>Supaplex: lm l: thx
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03:16<mohed>two questions. Does debian support sudo -i and is firefox availible true the repos couse i cant find it
03:17<Txt_file>mohed: firefox is called iceweasel in debian
03:17<dpkg>i guess iceweasel is a DFSG-free fork of Firefox, which replaces Firefox in Debian from Etch. It is not GNU's Firefox-fork which is now known as IceCat ( Ask me about <why iceweasel> <iceweasel user-agent>. Use gnome-default-applications-properties to change settings such as the mail reader. No longer supported in Etch, see and ask me about ...
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03:18<ml|>mohed: you need to install sudo and set it up
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03:19<Supaplex>!tell mohed -about search
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03:30<_paladin_>sudo iwconfig wlan0 essid "tratata" ap tratata channel 1 key off mode managed && sudo dhclient wlan0
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03:31<_paladin_>is it right to connect to wifi network?
03:31<_paladin_>network is unsecured
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03:33<gsimmons>_paladin_: tratata isn't a valid value for the ap parameter.
03:33<_paladin_>gsimmons, tratata means mac-addr for ap ^^
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03:34<Supaplex>my coworker has always maintained backuppc, so this is the first time I'm looking at this. The box was upgraded nearly two weeks ago. I know we had some issues with backuppc's upgrade, and I'm not sure about the state of the upgrade. All I can see is "There are 0 hosts that have been backed up" LOG.13.z was from 5/22, but I can't read the log. file LOG.13.z just says it's "data"
03:34<_paladin_>it doesn't work =(
03:34<gsimmons>!tell _paladin_ -about doesn't work
03:34<_paladin_>may be i forgot something
03:34<_paladin_>oh, sorry
03:35<_paladin_>no errors, just no connection to internet
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03:37<mohed>so if i install iceweasel would the mozilla plugions i instal thrue apt auomaticly star working in iceweasel ?
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03:40<ml|>mohed: no and you don't have to install them thru debian, you install addons with iceweasel it self by going to the mozilla addons site
03:41<mohed>ml |: thx
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03:43<mohed>i did a aptitude install bind9 and apt is removing 177 packages right now :), crossing my fingers but it looks like im going to have to reinstall debian
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03:44<Razique>Hi all
03:44<Razique>which version of Debian must I dl for a Core 2 quad ?
03:45<Razique>cuz I've been through some memory issues with a i686 distro on it :D
03:45<_paladin_>gsimmons, iwconfig wlan0 tells that ap not associated. i've tried "ap <mac>" and "ap any", but both doesn't working. may be i can force wlan0 to associate with ap somehow?
03:46<jm_>Razique: amd64 if you want 64bit release
03:46<Razique>jm_ yup I'm on a website sayin it ;)
03:47<Razique>Do all server application run normally ?
03:47<Razique>tomcat / apache / jboss / mod_jk ?
03:47<jm_>check if packages are available
03:48<gsimmons>_paladin_: Are there any MAC address restrictions in effect on the AP?
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03:49<ml|>or for 32bit i386 with bigmem kernel if you have more than 3gb of memory
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03:50<dpkg>-bigmem linux-images support up to 64 GB of RAM. If you have more than about 3.4 GB of RAM, install and use this to see everything past the sub ~3.4 GB limit (but with additional CPU overhead).
03:50<Txt_file>ml|: but i686 with bigmem can't allocate more then 3.5GB to a program, can it?
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03:53<ml|>but atleast you can use all your memory
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03:54<Txt_file>if you have not more then 64GB RAM ;)
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04:00<matt7676>I am planning to build a 802.11b/g/n WAP using D-Link DWA-547 card. As much as I have researched, there is no other PCI 802.11b/g/n card, which supports ath9k drivers and master mode. However, any comments about AR5416 and ath9k on latest drivers/kernel releases?
04:02<Txt_file>!tell matt7676 about hostapd
04:05<matt7676>Txt_file: ok, so if hostapd doesn't support ath9k drivers and 802.11n is not supported by madwifi drivers, there is no possibility to build 802.11b/g/n WAP?
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04:06<Txt_file>damn have not read that you want to use the n-draft
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04:08<Supaplex>judd: versions backuppc
04:08<judd>Supaplex: backuppc -- etch: 2.1.2-6 etch-backports: 3.1.0-4~bpo40+1 lenny: 3.1.0-4 sid: 3.1.0-4 sid: 3.1.0-6 squeeze: 3.1.0-6
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04:09<matt7676>Txt_file: I'll think I will drop this 802.11b/g/n WAP project and go on with 802.11b/g. If drivers improve in the future, I will add 802.11n support. However, am i right, that DWA-547( is fully supported by madwifi and thus fully supported by hostapd?
04:10<Txt_file>matt7676: what do you want to do with the PC expect to use as AP
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04:11<Txt_file>if they say thet it is supported then it should be supported
04:11<Supaplex>sounds like he's going to use it in a router
04:11<matt7676>Txt_file: WAP + VPN + DHCP server + firewall + make graphs about QoS and network usage
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04:12<Txt_file>this all can do the most routers
04:12<Txt_file>the last not but the other things
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04:13<Txt_file>some routers can run with linux-firmware
04:15<ml|>yes, use tomato on my linksys gl can do all that i believe
04:16<Txt_file>I heared that you can the avm fritzbox also let run with a linux-kernel
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04:44<Guest660>any irish woman online?
04:45<InkBottle>Hi, I readk a question already asked on #debian-x: is nvidia card nv driver + dvi output, limited to 1600x1200. Though it would do fine at much higher with vga output?
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04:48<Guest660>ink bottle r u a man or woman?
04:48<dpkg>Damnit Jim! It's YOU. Y-O-U. Not *U*. U is a letter. YOU is a word. See ne1, or wud. Dutch for 'you' (formal singular). See
04:48<jm_>InkBottle: it might be a limitation of DVI yes
04:48<ml|>InkBottle: when i was using nv driver, it worked fine at 1920x1200 was just a bit slow so switched to nvidia driver from debian
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04:49<InkBottle>ml|: but was it with dvi output or vga?
04:49<jm_>DVI has limited bandwith
04:49<ml|>InkBottle: worked fine with both
04:49<Supaplex>I'm using 1900x1200 svga x2 here
04:50<Supaplex>Guest660: will you kindly not msg me. no one is interested in answering your man/woman question.
04:50<jm_>hence dual-link DVI
04:50<Supaplex>!tell Guest660 -about msg
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04:51<InkBottle>because I remember it was not working (not sure though), at 1920x1200 dvi output nvidia "n43" card
04:51<InkBottle>or is it a mistake of mine?
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04:52<InkBottle>jm_: what dual link dvi?
04:52<InkBottle>about what Supaplex said
04:52<ml|>my card is a ... 02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV44 [Quadro NVS 285] (rev a1)
04:52<jm_>InkBottle: read about it on the net, like I said, DVI has limited bandwith so it can't carry high resolutions
04:54<ml|>also worked fine with onboard graphics with vga at same res
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04:54<Guest660>DVI can carry High Def to tvs from ps3 systems so jm_ ur wrong
04:54<InkBottle>jm_: Ok, just I didn't get what Supaplex said about svga... never mind, I'm using dvi so I stick to "nouveau".
04:55<ml|>dvi just has a crisper picture
04:55<InkBottle>Guest660: it is the +driver+ (nv that is limited together with dvi :)
04:55<Supaplex>you know. that analog 15 pin connection
04:56<InkBottle>Supaplex: where was my mind :)
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04:57<InkBottle>so, to sum up, no one had succeeded with dvi. (done)
04:57<jm_>Guest660: yes, 800x600 might bi high resolution for some, the devil is in the details, plus you gracefully ignored what I said about dual-link DVI
04:57<Supaplex>it's archaic technology. :)
04:57<Guest660>jm_: is a dick and knows nothing
04:57<jm_>why did I even bother
04:57<InkBottle>jm_: :)
04:58<locklace>!lart Guest660
04:58*dpkg chops Guest660 in half with a free Solaris 7 CD
04:59<Guest660>who the fuck is locklace?
05:00<Supaplex>we're still trying to figure out who you are. at least he's a regular here.
05:00<Guest660>im an irish softwear developer,
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05:02<Guest660>can anyone tell me the name of a channel with a bit of fun on it?
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05:05<Guest660>supaplex its just ink bottle in dat room
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05:08<InkBottle>Supaplex: sorry for that question rather out of point: what did you mean when you said "trying to figure out who"... Do you refer to something specific?
05:09<Supaplex>InkBottle: it was directed at Guest660.
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05:14<InkBottle>Supaplex: I just meant can you atm now much more about me (for instance), than where I leave? (just to know what kind of informations are transmitted and what are not)
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05:16<Supaplex>InkBottle: don't worry about it. he came off as a "troll" so I didn't want to fuel his fury.
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05:20<locklace>heh, the xen discussions on lkml are funny
05:20<locklace>makes me glad to use kvm
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05:21<Supaplex>locklace: oh? enlighten me a little.
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05:23<locklace>in a nutshell, the xen people are whining about how the kernel maintainers won't merge their dom0 support
05:23-!-berto [] has joined #debian
05:23<locklace>"everyone and their dog uses xen! it's madness not to merge these patches, it will make linux better because xen is so great"
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05:25<locklace>and everyone else's (including linus') response is: we'd like to have xen dom0 in the kernel, but your code sucks. it pollutes the rest of the kernel with if (xen) ... special cases everywhere and provides no benefits to non-xen users
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05:25<Supaplex>maybe there will be a crossroads akin to the security (selinux etc) abstraction, or netfilter etc. then you can compile any one flavor you want. or all as modules, and use any one at a time.
05:25<Supaplex>hah awesome :)
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05:27<locklace>hehe. and then someone suggested, hey, why don't you just donate xen to linux and let everyone kick it into shape? that is how we normally do everything else, you know
05:27<jm_>one person made a good comment - with so many companies/business using xen, why can't they pay people to rewrite it so it's accepted
05:28<locklace>(the contrast with kvm is that kvm is very minimal and plays nicely with the rest of the kernel, since it was developed inside the process instead of outside it)
05:28<locklace>jm_: yeah, really.
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05:35<InkBottle>I turn this off, bye :)
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05:36<Supaplex>locklace: humm cool. I'll have to give kvm a more serious look. I've only got a few guests running under xen, so the migration pain is hopefully low.
05:37*Supaplex wonders off to lands of sleep();
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05:45<DDevine>KVM is good :) I like it.
05:45<DDevine>My job requires me to use Xen though.
05:46<Txt_file>the bad about kvm is that you need hardware that support it
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05:57<jscinoz>:( I want to ditch mono so bad, but gnome-do is just too nice :( anything like it that doesnt need mono? Deskbar is nice, but it obviously isnt a dock. whereas awn is a dock, but lacks the searching :(
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06:22<lucia>ciao, chi mi aiuta sui problemi a masterizzare con ubuntu?
06:22<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
06:23<lucia>ok, thanks
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06:47<debam>jm_ why this error comes /usr/lib/cups/filter/foomatic-rip) stopped with status 3!
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07:13<interbird>It's crazy, I have multiple profiles for use with IceWeasel. One of them makes IW terrably slow with gmail and wikipedia, i can see the little side-icons get built. Anyone has any idea that causes this? (it's not my route because other profiles work fine; i don't use squid; it must be something in the profile that makes JS crawl)
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07:19<deepsa>hi all
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07:20<deepsa>any comannd which can help me download a package and it's dependency? without installing any of the dependency plus the package itself?
07:21<Yoda-BZH>man aptitude
07:21<locklace>deepsa: aptitude -d
07:23<debam>hi to all what this means /undefined in ESPwl??
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07:25<locklace>!tell debam about how to ask
07:25<interbird>deepsa: what do you mean?
07:26<deepsa>it says no downloadable files for libapache2-mod-php5 ; perhaps it is a local or obsolete package?
07:27-!-mode/#debian [+l 433] by debhelper
07:28<themill>judd versions libapache2-mod-php5
07:28<judd>themill: libapache2-mod-php5 -- etch: 5.2.0-8+etch13 etch-security: 5.2.0+dfsg-8+etch15 lenny: 5.2.6.dfsg.1-1+lenny2 lenny-security: 5.2.6.dfsg.1-1+lenny3 sid: 5.2.9.dfsg.1-4 squeeze: 5.2.9.dfsg.1-4
07:28<interbird>deepsa: on my system it is in the repo (lenny)
07:28<deepsa>i have lenny too , strange
07:28<interbird>what are you running ? (uname -a)
07:28<debam>locklace, i have installed old lenny but while printing i am getting error as /undefined in ESPwl
07:29<themill>deepsa: perhaps pastebin your sources.list and the output of apt-cache policy
07:29<debam>locklace, (/usr/lib/cups/filter/foomatic-rip) stopped with status 3!
07:30<interbird>deepsa: what does apt-get install libapache2-mod-php5 say ?
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07:31<deepsa>hold on
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07:35<interbird>debam: maybe do a reinstall of cups if you don't have some custom-config; purge the whole cups and reinstall it
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07:39<deepsa>tried everything but can't recover , actually i changed my users password and logout , any way to change it? i also don't remember the root password :(
07:40<jm_>!i forgot root's password
07:40<dpkg>1) press 'e' to edit the kernel setting in the grub command line (add 'init=/bin/sh' to the end of it) 2) 'fsck' your root file system, 3) 'mount -o remount,rw /', 4) 'passwd root' 5) 'mount -o remount,ro /' 6) 'reboot -d -f' (exec /sbin/init should work); For LILO (e.g. pre-sarge): 1) 'linux init=/bin/sh' at a lilo boot prompt (hold Shift while booting), steps 2-6 are the same; yaboot: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at yaboot prompt.
07:41<jrabbit>shouldn't you try and use single user mode...
07:41<interbird>!coffee dpkg
07:41*dpkg decants a fine brew of International Roast Caterers Blend for dpkg, courtesy of interbird
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07:45<interbird>dpkg: what time is it ?
07:45<dpkg>interbird: what are you talking about?
07:45<interbird>dpkg: time
07:45<dpkg>time is probably found on, or 2009.06.05 11:45:43, or an illusion, and lunchtime doubly so - Ford Prefect said that. of no essence here!, or it's beer o'clock!!, or see
07:45<locklace>it's hammer time
07:46<interbird>Then why does my lenny on wifi not sync ?
07:46<interbird>(not directed at our bot :-)
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07:46<locklace>probably because you tried to touch this.
07:46<locklace>you can't, you know.
07:47-!-mode/#debian [+l 426] by debhelper
07:47<interbird>when is hammertime passed?
07:49<deavid>anyone knows a shell command to download an entire FTP? I'm connected to my dedicated server with ssh, and I want to download a FTP with a lot of files, and subdirectories
07:49<interbird>try wget
07:49<interbird>man wget
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07:50<deavid>thanks :-)
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07:51<jm_>or use a decent ftp client that supports that
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07:52<deavid>jm_: i need something suitable for ssh... and wget is nice for that
07:52<interbird>so, why do i have to /etc/init/d/ntp restart each time i boot lenny on my system ? locales are ok.
07:53<jm_>deavid: so are ftp clients
07:54<deavid>ok, you were talking about console clients; I understood graphical ftp clients
07:54<locklace>deavid: also check out sshfs
07:55<deavid>locklace: the other machine is out of my control, i only have several ftp accounts.
07:55<jm_>naah, no graphics in lftp
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07:55<locklace>deavid: and?
07:56<deavid>sshfs is useful with FTP too ?
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07:56<locklace>i don't get what you're trying to do. you said ftp and then started talking about ssh
07:56<locklace>anyway, sshfs for ssh, curlftpfs for ftp
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07:57<deavid>locklace: I'm trying to download a big FTP to my dedicated server, and i don't want to download to my machine and upload again to the destination server
07:57<deavid>so i connected over SSH to my machine, and raised a wget ftp:// command
07:58<deavid>is downloading all at this moment
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07:59<interbird>if my TZ is europe/amsterdam, then one would suggest ntp syncs when connected? why does it not on my system ?
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08:00<interbird>why do i have to manually restart ntp ?
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08:01<jm_>interbird: what does timezone have to do with ntp?
08:03<interbird>jm_: well, ntp is a deamon that get's the time from a time-server right? and it's checks my tz right? to deliver me the correct time ?
08:04<interbird>what do i miss please, locklace ?
08:04<locklace>debugging ntp synchronization is an exercise unto itself. read about ntpdc and the status and associations commands and the meanings of all the fields, the debugging options, etc.
08:04<jm_>yeah it's not trivial
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08:05<interbird>i know, but i don't grasp why other installes like mint and ubuntu in the same system get it right
08:05<locklace>alternatively if it's just for a personal system, consider using ntpdate instead, it's a lot simpler
08:05<interbird>it's buggi'n me and i want it solved
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08:05<rockman>How are you?
08:05<interbird>locklace: ntpdate is installed also...
08:06<interbird>how can i fix this? i'm no newbie and have tried... where are the guru's ? :-)
08:07-!-mode/#debian [+l 432] by debhelper
08:07<jm_>you will need to find out why it fails at boot
08:07<rockman>What is swap?
08:07<rockman>I'm a new
08:07<locklace>!tell rockman about grounding
08:07<interbird>like a swapfile
08:07<dpkg>i heard swap is RAM you wish you had. Generally it is said that for low amounts of RAM, you should have twice the RAM as swap. You don't have to have a swap partition either, as you can always create a swap file and use that.
08:08<interbird>overflow of memory to disk
08:08<rockman>Thank you.
08:08<rockman>My English is very poor.So I don't...
08:08<interbird>rockman: rule is make swap at least as big as your ram and twice may be better
08:09<stew>that's an outdated rule
08:09<interbird>stew: for who ?
08:09<rockman>My RAM is 512MB.I using xubuntu 8.04.1
08:09<rockman>I need seap?
08:09<interbird>make your swap 1G
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08:10<locklace>rockman: you might find this a good starting point too:
08:10<locklace>!tell rockman about ubuntu
08:10<rockman>I know Ubuntu.
08:10<themill>rockman: you'll get better help from #xubuntu on
08:10<rockman>I using ubuntu8.04
08:11<interbird>locklace: much to difficult for rockman...
08:11<rockman>But I using xfce.
08:11<locklace>rockman: if you actually read the message, it's telling you that ubuntu is not supported in this channel
08:11<interbird>rockman: use 1G ram, that will suffice for your system
08:11<interbird>swap is a kernel issue;not ubuntu
08:12<rockman>I use Chinese.
08:12<dr|z3d>rockman: 512M RAM, 1G swap. Plenty.
08:12<themill>How much is required depends a lot on what software you're using. It's also just plain polite to ask your own distro's help channel and not some other distro's.
08:12<dr|z3d>Not in here you don't ;)
08:13<dr|z3d>If you really like to push your system hard, 2G swap.
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08:13<interbird>systems het pushed hard with no swap...
08:13<dr|z3d>rockman: 1G swap for normal use, 2G if you're using pc more heavily.
08:14<themill>2G if you use flash, java and firefox....
08:14<dr|z3d>Better to get more ram than a bigger swap file, however.
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08:25<miguel>im on xfce4, can i somehow start a window, without the decorations?
08:25<miguel>i want just to put a big console on the very background on my desktop
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08:33<interbird>miguel: try using F11 in xfce-terminal
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08:34<miguel>is this an option?
08:34<miguel>or a command?
08:35<interbird>it's a key for full-screen
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08:35<interbird>in xfce-terminal
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08:35<interbird>function-key 11
08:36<interbird>also works in iceweasel, totem,...
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08:37<interbird>miguel: xfce4-terminal --geometry 140x30 you may also like
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08:38<interbird>and you can turn-off the decorations in the terminal-settings
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08:39<Guest674>hey guys
08:39<miguel>i just would like to let it stay in the very background all the time
08:39-!-Guest674 is now known as EnGor
08:39<miguel>and never come in front of my OTHER windows
08:39<miguel>dunno if thats possible in xfce4
08:39<interbird>it is
08:39<EnGor>does anyone know any
08:40<EnGor>good irc channels for tech related subjects on debian freebsd and linux
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08:40<interbird>miguel: look at the settings/properties of xfce-terminal; you can disable the window-border-shit
08:41<interbird>miguel: using gnome-terminal, possible under xfce, you can even make profiles and feed them at gnome-terminal-start
08:41<interbird>dunno about profiles for xfce-terminal...
08:42-!-fixed [] has joined #debian
08:42<miguel>allright thx!
08:42-!-fixed [] has quit []
08:42<interbird>np :-)
08:42-!-cantik [~cantik@] has joined #debian
08:42<interbird>EnGor: what a trivial question; is your search-engine broken ?
08:43-!-chomwitt_ [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
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08:43<EnGor>no just getting opinions from ppl on here
08:43<interbird>about freebsd ?
08:44<EnGor>general dicussion on unix like operating systems
08:44<InkBottle>Hi, I'm looking for freeType fonts (fixed width for using with programming editor) (would be great if there were fixed width +with+ serif...) (also need it encompass usual character sets)
08:44-!-azeem_ is now known as azeem
08:44<azeem>EnGor: what is there to discuss?
08:44<azeem>Unix won't change much anymore
08:44<EnGor>i know that
08:44<interbird>InkBottle: like what fonts ?
08:45<EnGor>the linux kernel is not going in releases its goin in updates now
08:45<InkBottle>interbird: good question
08:45<EnGor>the only thing looking promising is the new hardware abstraction layer
08:45<InkBottle>interbird: would there be a tool to visualize the Xft fonts I already have?
08:46<azeem>EnGor: what does that have to do with Unix?
08:46<InkBottle>interbird: Because here I use Xchat and the fixed width font it uses is rather good at reading
08:46<interbird>InkBottle: Like opening an openoffice document and create some text with these fonts ?
08:47<EnGor>well you said
08:47<InkBottle>interbird: smart
08:47<EnGor>unix isnt changing anymore and i said thats right
08:47<interbird>InkBottle: So, the font is good ?
08:47<themill>InkBottle: I like bitstream sans mono for programming -- ttf-bitream-vera package. There are serifed versions too of course.
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08:48<InkBottle>interbird: Here with xchat, yes; but I can't find fonts for emacs that are ok, when used very long time
08:48-!-unf [] has quit []
08:48<interbird>bitstream is prop...
08:48<themill>interbird: ?
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08:48<locklace>InkBottle: terminus
08:49<interbird>themill: bitstream are propeiarrity fonts; sorry cannot spell that word...
08:49<Retro198909>could someone help me ?
08:49<InkBottle>themill: serified together with fixed width?
08:49<themill>InkBottle: their in debian main which means they meet the DFSG
08:49<themill>InkBottle: not in the bitstream series, no
08:49<InkBottle>locklace: I've been using terminus for long (but it's not freetype)
08:49<Retro198909>My dvd burner will not mount blank dvds
08:49<themill>InkBottle: their in debian main which means they meet the DFSG
08:49<valdyn>Retro198909: thats ok
08:50-!-jm_ [] has joined #debian
08:50<interbird>Retrol98909: What is the error-message ?
08:50-!-ubuntu [] has joined #debian
08:50<Retro198909>I dont have a errror message
08:50<themill>gah... I fail.
08:50-!-ubuntu is now known as Guest677
08:50<Retro198909>It will mount dvd movies
08:50<interbird>then, what goes wrong ?
08:50<themill>You should all have UUIDs not nicks.
08:50<cryingtux>im looking for an image viewing tool
08:50<Retro198909>it would mount blank dvds
08:51<valdyn>Retro198909: blank dvd cannot be mounted
08:51<Guest677>I ain't sure of one either
08:51-!-locklace is now known as c4ea-f71d-89b2
08:51<c4ea-f71d-89b2>themill: ok
08:51<themill>c4ea-f71d-89b2: win!
08:51<Retro198909>how do I burn to a blank dvd?
08:51-!-Guest677 [] has quit []
08:51<interbird>themill: 916b3374-51cf-11de-8509-5b170c7bb42e
08:51<valdyn>!fgi Retro198909 burn dvd linux
08:51<dpkg>Retro198909: dvd linux
08:51<valdyn>!fgi Retro198909 burn+dvd+linux
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08:52*c4ea-f71d-89b2 feels an inexplicable desire to quote from The Prisoner
08:52<themill>the chances of having two people with the same two first letters goes down with UUIDs....
08:52<leejongwook>i can't find vi
08:52<leejongwook>how do i install vi (not vim)
08:52<c4ea-f71d-89b2>leejongwook: aptitude install nvi
08:52<valdyn>leejongwook: i dont think vi is free software
08:52<Retro198909>I want to burn the dvd with k3b
08:52<InkBottle>interbird: I try to install open office, it seems to be a good idea to visualize free type fonts + there is no other tools to do that, like xfontsel? (but xfontsel is for xfonts)
08:52<leejongwook>oh i see
08:52<leejongwook>thanks :)
08:52<themill>leejongwook: vi is a proprietary application that is not in debian. You're looking for a vi clone like nvi or vim
08:52<leejongwook>i see...
08:53<leejongwook>thanks all :)
08:53<leejongwook>i'll stick to vim
08:53<c4ea-f71d-89b2>leejongwook: try nvi
08:53<c4ea-f71d-89b2>leejongwook: it "is" vi, really
08:53<themill>Actually, I think vi was open-sourced a while back, but I can't think why anyone would want to use it rather than vim
08:53<leejongwook>:) i'm just getting nvi
08:53<c4ea-f71d-89b2>leejongwook: and it's a lot faster and less bloated than vim
08:53<leejongwook>:) isee
08:54<Retro198909>how come k3b does not see my blank dvd?
08:54<c4ea-f71d-89b2>i like vim sometimes, but if i want a fast vi for quick things (especially on slower systems), (n)vi wins hands down
08:54<interbird>InkBottle: If your fonts show up in OOo,then they are usable one could argue; why not put some time into creating a little doc where you use all your important fonts, put the name besides it and then print it ?
08:54<interbird>Retrol98909: Is is blanc ?
08:54-!-EnGor [~james@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
08:55<interbird>truley blanc ?
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08:56<interbird>Retrol98909: Can you handle commandline ?
08:56<Retro198909>yeah I think so
08:56<InkBottle>interbird: "print it"? actually it's intended to be used at screen, it's for using in emacs; I'm on my way in installing openoffice :)
08:56<interbird>Retrol98909: what is the device of your writer ? (.dev.scd0, /dev/hdc or other)
08:57-!-mode/#debian [+l 440] by debhelper
08:57<Retro198909>it is dev/sr0
08:58<interbird>Retrol98909: eMacs ? ok, dunno about that; don't use it. Lot's of love for Mr. RMS but not for eMacs; sorry, cannot help you.
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08:58<Retro198909>cannot mount blank dvd
08:59<interbird>Retrol98909: cdrecord --blanc dev=/dev/sr0 (by heart; man cdrecord or wodim for more help for blanking at the cmsline)
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08:59<matteo>Hi there, how could I remove automatically a module (with modprobe -r) when I shutdown the pc? If I don't "modprobe -r ndiswrapper" before the shutdown, the system hangs at the virtual console showing "ndiswrapper (ndismsetinformationcomplete:2524): invalid task"
08:59<jm_>Retro198909: is it sata device?
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09:00<jm_>ok, dvd+rw-mediainfo will show medium status
09:00<c4ea-f71d-89b2>matteo: just add it as a script in init.d and create the appropriate runlevel links
09:00<jm_>(for DVD discs)
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09:00<Retro198909>it is a pioneer dvd burner
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09:01<matteo>c4ea-f71d-89b2: What do I write in the script? sudo modprobe -r ndiswrapper
09:02-!-ubuntu_ [] has joined #debian
09:02<ubuntu_>Hi there all
09:02<interbird>Retrol98909: sometimes eject and reinsert works; also do a man growisofs; this one has a blan-option too
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09:02<c4ea-f71d-89b2>matteo: so you'll create /etc/init.d/ndis-unload or whatever, and link to it with a sensible name from /etc/rc0.d and /etc/rc6.d
09:02<InkBottle>OpenOffice is a huge thing; would there be an other tool in order to just visualize free type fonts at screen?
09:02<matteo>ok, thank you
09:02<c4ea-f71d-89b2>matteo: no sudo, those scripts all run as root
09:02<interbird>InkBottle: AbiWord
09:02<ubuntu_>umm...i downloaded and installed Clam Anti Virus but now don't know where that is
09:03<ubuntu_>Am on Xubu904
09:03<InkBottle>interbird: ok
09:03<noflash>ubuntu_, try #ubuntu
09:03<c4ea-f71d-89b2>matteo: look at the other things in init.d to see how to write such scripts properly, although yours can be very simple and omit all the boilerplate
09:03<interbird>ubuntu_: start synaptic
09:03<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
09:03<Retro198909>interbird: reinserting the dvd did nothing for me
09:03<interbird>ubuntu_: then search for Clam; then enable the file-list in preferences of synaptic
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09:04<Retro198909>interbird: I also ran cdrecord --blanc dev=/dev/sr0
09:04<Retro198909> and it gave me bad option
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09:04<matteo>c4ea-f71d-89b2: ok, thank you
09:04<interbird>Retrol98909: maybe this disc is dead ? try another one
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09:04<cantik>/# jogja
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09:05<Retro198909>interbird: no luck with another disc
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09:06<interbird>Retrol98909: btw. you must use cdrecord, wodim and growisofs as root, but i assume you know that
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09:07<interbird>Retrol98909: no luck in erasing still ?
09:08<jm_>as root? not really
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09:10<interbird>not really what ?
09:10<jm_>it works for regular users
09:11<interbird>also for Retro198909 ?
09:11<Retro198909>interbird: I dont know anything about cdrecord
09:11-!-Holborn [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
09:11<jm_>why wouldn't it work for him? he doesn't look so special
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09:12<interbird>maybe the permissions on his /dev/sr0 and the groups he is (or not is) a member of on his system ?
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09:12<interbird>man cdrecord
09:12<interbird>man wodim
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09:12<Retro198909>interbird: how do i change permissions on it?
09:13<jm_>Retro198909: don't change permissions
09:13<interbird>you don't want to just yet
09:13<interbird>we first want to know if root can blanc
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09:13<Retro198909>interbird: what do I put in the terminal?
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09:14<interbird>so give a blanc command (wodim ..... [man wodim]) and then you know if it can be blanked and then we'll lokk further
09:14<jm_>dvd+rw-format -blank /dev/sr0
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09:14<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, quick sid/sarge mix is dont mix sarge and sid under any circumstances. if you need newer pacakges than those found in sarge, first upgrade to etch (ask me about <sarge->etch>) then ask me about <backports>
09:14<interbird>Retrol98909: What jm_ says
09:14-!-unipower_ [~unipower@] has joined #debian
09:15<unipower_>join #debian-zh
09:15<LinuxMafia>i wanted vlc-9.9
09:15<interbird>does not exist
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09:16<Retro198909>interbird:I put man wodim in and got a manual
09:16<LinuxMafia>interbird, it does
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09:16<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, smm is system management mode on the x86 architecture, whereby the BIOS takes over the CPU unbeknownst to the operating system.
09:16<interbird>LinuxMafia: 9.9? show me !
09:17-!-ffws [] has joined #debian
09:17<interbird>you mean
09:17<LinuxMafia>interbird, i have gentoo and i have it , it does for debian too u just need to do some extra stuff
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09:18<interbird>LinuxMafia: vlc v9.9 does not exist; v00000000.9.x might...
09:18<themill>dpkg: tell LinuxMafia about ssb
09:18-!-YPWang [] has joined #debian
09:19<LinuxMafia>that is it
09:19<LinuxMafia>themill, 1) Add ONLY a "deb-src ..." line for sid to your sources.list what i have to add exatcly
09:19<dpkg>i guess deb-src is 'deb-src http://http.<CC> <release> main contrib non-free' (example) where '<CC>' is the Country Code, replace with your own for a local mirror - ask me about <source> or <apt-build> for some info about how to build stuff, make sure "build-essential" is installed, ask me about <module-assistant>. Might need to have linux-headers-`uname -r` (if using a debian kernel) and "libc6-dev" installed.
09:20<themill>also "man 5 sources.list"
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09:20<Retro198909>interbird:I put dvd+rw-format -blank /dev/sr0
09:20<Retro198909> and got the mounted media doesnot appear to be DVD rw
09:20<LinuxMafia>themill, i know that , but i dont knwo what should be http://..
09:21<jm_>Retro198909: what kind of disc is this?
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09:21<themill>LinuxMafia: re-read what dpkg just said in the channel
09:21<huwaw69>any one here can help me with my installation?
09:21<huwaw69>im new in debian
09:21<interbird>Retrol98909: does lspci show your plextor in the list? is /dev/sr0 really there ?
09:21<Retro198909>It is a Verbatim dvd-R
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09:22<jm_>you can't blank non RW media
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09:22<interbird>Retrol98909: YOU CANNOT ERASE A DVD-R (read-only)
09:22<Retro198909>I know
09:22<c4ea-f71d-89b2>!tell huwaw69 about ask
09:22<jm_>dvd+rw-mediainfo will show you the status of the disc
09:22-!-jm_ [] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting]
09:23<interbird>then why ask how to if you know that ?
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09:23<huwaw69>im trying to install debian using a usb, ive downloaded the boot.img.gz and the netinst and the main cd1.iso of lenny but when i boot with my usb it says boot error
09:23<Retro198909>I want to be able to burn a iso with k3b
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09:24<huwaw69>can anyone guide me how to properly make a bootable installation usb?
09:24<interbird>on a dvd-rom with data on it? won't work unless you use growisofs
09:24<Retro198909>no data on it
09:24<c4ea-f71d-89b2>huwaw69: consider using unetbootin to create the boot disk
09:24<interbird>then no need to erase;it's a dvd-r true ?
09:24<Retro198909>how do I use growisofs?
09:24<c4ea-f71d-89b2>!tell huwaw69 about unetbootin
09:24<huwaw69>i messed up my windows xp
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09:24<Retro198909>interbird: yes
09:24<huwaw69>im using ubuntu now
09:25<c4ea-f71d-89b2>oops, no factoid for it
09:25<huwaw69>is unetbootin ok for ubuntu?
09:25<gsimmons>!tell huwaw69 -about usb install
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09:25<Retro198909>interbird: I just want to be able to burn a iso to a dvd
09:25<c4ea-f71d-89b2>huwaw69: it works fine everywhere, pretty much.
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09:26<interbird>Retrol98909: man growisofs; just read it and then come back if that does not work; works for me...
09:26<huwaw69>i haven't used unetbootin, is it a gui installation or something
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09:27<interbird>Retrol98909: growisofs -Z /dev/sr0=/path/to-your/iso.iso
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09:27<huwaw69>wow cool unetbootin is has a user friendly interface i hope this one works
09:27<InkBottle>when you have installed a new ttf font, is it immediately visible, or you have to restart the X server?
09:27<interbird>Retrol98909: then your disc is not blanc
09:28<dr|z3d>Retro198909: Can you try not typing in ALL CAPS please. It's annoying.
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09:28<c4ea-f71d-89b2>InkBottle: you certainly don't have to restart. it's enough to refresh the fontconfig cache, and installing a font package should do this automatically. verify with fc-list
09:28<interbird>dr|z3d: sorry, my fault, i started using caps; will refrain
09:29<interbird>Retrol98909: Is the disc in the writer ?
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09:30<InkBottle>c4ea-f71d-89b2: ok, it's in the list
09:30<Retro198909>interbird: yes
09:31<interbird>Retrol98909: do you have a terminal open as root ?
09:32-!-debam [~debam@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
09:32<interbird>Retrol98909: then open a terminal and become root
09:32<interbird>Retrol98909: you have the # prompt ?
09:32<Retro198909>yeah I do now
09:32<interbird>Retrol98909: Then give this command: growisofs -Z /dev/sr0=/path/to-your/iso.iso
09:33-!-CompWiz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:33<interbird>Retrol98909: And the disk is a DVD-RW, yes ?
09:33-!-johnfg [] has joined #debian
09:33<johnfg>hi folks!
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09:34<Retro198909>I have it on my desktop and I put it in the command line growisofs -Z/dev/sr0=/desktop/happen.iso
09:34<interbird>Retrol98909: And the disk is a DVD-RW, yes ?
09:34<Retro198909>just a dvd-r
09:34<johnfg>At present, my /etc/network/interfaces has for eth0, allow-hotplug eth0.
09:34<interbird>Retrol98909: blanc ?
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09:35<johnfg>So it comes up earlier should I change this to auto eth0?
09:35<interbird>Retrol98909: try this command and let me know what it says
09:35<Retro198909>growisofs -Z/dev/sr0=/desktop/happen.iso and it said no such file or directory
09:35<Retro198909>and it is on my desktop
09:35<interbird>Retrol98909: use tab-completion
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09:36<interbird>growisofs -Z /dev/sr0=/home/yourusername/Desktop/happ<TAB>
09:36<interbird>Retrol98909: /desktop does not exist, it's /home/yourusername/Desktop
09:37-!-mode/#debian [+l 440] by debhelper
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09:37<interbird>case sensitive
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09:38<dr|z3d>~/Des <tab> quicker ;)
09:38<brennino>hi folks
09:38<Retro198909>interbird: I got bash: wisofs: command not found
09:38<brennino>There is a way to tell linux: "from this directory I want that all files and dirs that I create must have brennino as owner and group workers"...
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09:39<interbird>Retrol98909: what is wisofs ?
09:39<dr|z3d>brennino: man chown
09:39<interbird>Retrol98909: where is the iso you want to burn ?
09:39<Retro198909>interbird: I dont know
09:39<Retro198909>interbird: on my desktop
09:39<ghantoos>brennino: chown -R brennino:brennino /path/to/the/dir/
09:39<c4ea-f71d-89b2>brennino: you can set the setuid and setgid bits on the dir
09:40<interbird>you don't know where the iso is you want to burn ????????????????
09:40<ghantoos>brennino: you might have to use "sudo" before the chown
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09:40<Retro198909>interbird;yes I do no where the iso file is
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09:40<interbird>where? give me a *full* path to it
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09:41<interbird>Retrol98909: are you using Debian ?
09:42<c4ea-f71d-89b2>that figures
09:43<interbird>Retrol98909: growisofs -Z /dev/sr0=/home/brad/Desktop/happen.ISO
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09:44<deepsa>hmm, i installed debian 5.0.1 from the 1st cd and i got gnome , here's my sources.list (i had no network during installation , but i have enabled it now and internet's working) , now i would like to enable the online repositories , how do I do that?
09:44<interbird>Retrol98909: This is a Debian channel; for ubuntu there are separate channels with better help for you; here we assume you know the basics...
09:44<brennino>ghantoos: this is ok, but every time I create a new file inside the directory it has the default group for the user and I need to do the command every time
09:44<deepsa>uname -r , is , 2.6.28-2-686
09:44<c4ea-f71d-89b2>deepsa: just comment out the cdrom lines and add the line for a debian mirror
09:44<deepsa>sorry , 2.6.26-2.686
09:45<ghantoos>brennino: yes, or use sudo or su to create the file as the other user
09:45<Retro198909>interbird: I got :-( /dev/sr0: media is not recognized as recordable DVD: 0
09:45<deepsa>c4ea-f71d-89b2, can you tell me what that line suppose to be?
09:45<c4ea-f71d-89b2>deepsa: your line will look like "deb lenny main contrib non-free"
09:46<c4ea-f71d-89b2>deepsa: add that and then do an "aptitude update"
09:46<interbird>Retrol98909: So, what kind of disc is in there ?
09:46<c4ea-f71d-89b2>brennino: did you read what i said
09:47<InkBottle>I've already asked on #emacs, but the size part of Emacs*font: Courier 10 Pitch:size 32, is not taken in account ... (emacs 23)
09:47<c4ea-f71d-89b2>brennino: you can set the setuid and setgid bits on the dir
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09:47<brennino>c4ea-f71d-89b2: thank you, I try it now and it works, thanks a lot
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09:48<deepsa>c4ea-f71d-89b2, thanks , its downloading , stuff
09:48<Retro198909>interbird: a blank dvd-r
09:48-!-greyhairs is now known as interbird
09:48<c4ea-f71d-89b2>deepsa: once that's done you should do an "aptitude safe-upgrade"
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09:49<c4ea-f71d-89b2>Retro198909: why are you here instead of an ubuntu channel
09:49<interbird>Retrol98909: Don't you have a DVD+RW lying around ?
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09:51<interbird>Retrol98909: And since you are on Ubuntu; Does the DVD-Worlplace (Nautilus) not work for you? Are you sure your device can burn? or is it jus a reader? Try a DVD+RW.
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09:52<interbird>Retrol98909: Giving up; dunno what's next to try... Maybe Launchpad ?
09:52<bobb1600>hya new to this are smk rifles any good
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09:53<c4ea-f71d-89b2>bobb1600: do you have a debian question
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09:55<interbird>rifles are no good
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09:55<amphi>a blunderbuss FTW
09:57<interbird>there is one mystery i just can't express; so i will not aim to try...
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10:00<deepsa>c4ea-f71d-89b2, okies i have issued the aptitutde safe-upgrade command , i believe it applies the security updates only, which is good , can you tell me what I need to do in order to use package management graphically?
10:00<c4ea-f71d-89b2>deepsa: look into synaptic
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10:01<deepsa>c4ea-f71d-89b2, okies
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10:02<c4ea-f71d-89b2>deepsa: you should also follow the safe-upgrade with "aptitude full-upgrade"; it might do nothing but it might be needed to fully sync with the current state of lenny
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10:03<deepsa>c4ea-f71d-89b2, i believe it will pull lot of stuff , which i can't afford as i am on a slow connection :(
10:03<c4ea-f71d-89b2>deepsa: you can see what it would do without actually doing it with "aptitude -s full-upgrade"
10:03<deepsa>c4ea-f71d-89b2, okies
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10:19<brennino>I love Debian
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10:19<c4ea-f71d-89b2>!love brennino
10:19*dpkg makes love to brennino, caressing brennino's hair, whispering sweet nothings in brennino's ear...
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10:27*c4ea-f71d-89b2 waits for the silly desktop question
10:28<cryingtux>what is "a Windows Media Player plug-in " needed to play an online tv channel?
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10:28<c4ea-f71d-89b2>!win cryingtux
10:28<dpkg>Congratulations, cryingtux! You have won the US presidency!
10:28<cryingtux>i cant play this live channel both in opera and iceweasel
10:29<cryingtux>c4ea-f71d-89b2: are you serious? :P
10:29<c4ea-f71d-89b2>cryingtux: talk to the hand
10:29<cryingtux>answer my query if thats so!!!
10:29*jackyf doubts about WMP plugin's presence in Debian
10:29<themill>dmm probably has it
10:29<azeem>cryingtux: don't /query people
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10:30<cryingtux>azeem: did i query you? i asked in room ::not you or anybody else if you can see
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10:32<azeem>cryingtux: 16:27 < cryingtux> answer my query if thats so!!!
10:33<azeem>it wasn't clear what you were saying here
10:34<cryingtux>yes because he was trying to act funny for no good reason:: my question was for room as everybody do here
10:34<cryingtux> this is what im getting from opera for the missing plugin
10:35<cryingtux>iceweasel just says "no video"
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10:37<cryingtux>themill: you mentioned mms::: i see lmms in synaptic:::Linux Multimedia Studio
10:37<cryingtux>will get it and check
10:37<themill>what? me? nope.
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10:40<Lantizia>MMmmmmega Fawn
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10:50<LinuxMafia> 1) Add ONLY a "deb-src ..." line for sid to your sources.list.
10:50<LinuxMafia>what i have to do exactly
10:51<dpkg>it has been said that deb-src is 'deb-src http://http.<CC> <release> main contrib non-free' (example) where '<CC>' is the Country Code, replace with your own for a local mirror - ask me about <source> or <apt-build> for some info about how to build stuff, make sure "build-essential" is installed, ask me about <module-assistant>. Might need to have linux-headers-`uname -r` (if using a debian kernel) and "libc6-dev" installed.
10:51<LinuxMafia>azeem, i did it
10:51<azeem>LinuxMafia: so what is your question?
10:52<LinuxMafia>azeem, i added deb-src
10:52<azeem>that's not a question
10:52<LinuxMafia>azeem, but it does not work
10:52<azeem>besides "<release> main contrib non-free" is missing
10:53<LinuxMafia>so i add non-free ok thanks i try
10:53<adb>ha ????
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10:54<johnfg>hey folks
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10:54<LinuxMafia>damn it can nto fetch
10:54<johnfg>How do I turn network manager off and networking on? In order to get things starting up right at boottime, this is what I need to accomplish.
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10:55<raymonp_>anyone here know zimbra?
10:55<adb>oh, nm
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10:55<themill>johnfg: just configure the devices in /etc/network/interfaces instead and n-m will leave them alone. Check its documentation in /usr/share/doc for more details on what it will leave alone
10:56<gsimmons>!tell raymonp_ -about zimbra
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10:56<raymonp_>johnfg: I purged the network manager from my system and configured /etc/netwrok/interfaces manually.. much better :)
10:57<LinuxMafia>adb, what do i have to type after the link there is no main
10:58<charzero>(squeeze) Is there a way to get NetworkManager to only keep one interface up at a time? If I connect to a wireless network, I would like it to take down the wired connection.
10:59<adb>LinuxMafia: lenny main ?
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10:59<themill>LinuxMafia: the deb-src line should be the same as the deb line just with deb-src at the front and "sid" instead of "lenny" for the release.
11:00<LinuxMafia>I TRY THANKS
11:00<LinuxMafia>for the caps
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11:01<LinuxMafia>thewill i have no deb line
11:01<LinuxMafia>if i wnat to use this
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11:02<LinuxMafia>may be i should use this
11:02<johnfg>is the right way to bring up eth0 with dhcp: first line "auto eth0", second line "iface eth0 inet dhcp"?
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11:03<stuckey>Anyone know of a text editor like gedit that doesn't depend on gnome/doesn't have all of the dependencies of gedit?
11:04<themill>stuckey: kate
11:04*themill hides
11:04<themill>LinuxMafia: perhaps you should pastebin your sources.list as it sounds pretty screwed up
11:05<themill>LinuxMafia: you might also like to read "/msg dpkg sources.list" and "man 5 sources.list" for details and examples.
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11:05<LinuxMafia>thewill. i think 3 of my sources does not work
11:06<stuckey>themill: thanks, looks nice.
11:06<c4ea-f71d-89b2>stuckey: emacs
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11:07<stuckey>c4ea-f71d-89b2: Thanks. I'm really just looking for a text box with the ability to save a file .txt format... you know what I mean?
11:07<themill>stuckey: kate is a very nice editing environment. If you want to edit just one file, use kwrite; if you want to edit lots of files and switch back and forth, then use kate. (it's the same editor)
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11:07<c4ea-f71d-89b2>stuckey: might want to look at the total size of all the kde dependencies before installing kate
11:07<themill>the requirement was just "not gnome dependencies"....
11:07<c4ea-f71d-89b2>stuckey: emacs can do a little more than that, but it can do that fine too
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11:11<themill>On a bare install, "aptitude install gedit" is 50% larger than "aptitude install kate", btw
11:12<c4ea-f71d-89b2>how about if you replace "g" with "n"
11:14<LinuxMafia>W: GPG error: testing Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY A040830F7FAC5991
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11:15<themill> doesn't sound like a debian mirror
11:15<LinuxMafia>themill, i found an good expale of soure.list and i am using it
11:15<c4ea-f71d-89b2>not that good, obviously
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11:16<themill>c4ea-f71d-89b2: hehe nedit is 80% less... but it's also a deeply annoying editor and doesn't do nearly the same things. (I mean, he could install "ed" for even smaller footprint again, but who would want to?!)
11:16<LinuxMafia>themill, stupid me it has the solution in the file
11:16<themill>LinuxMafia: stop.
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11:17<c4ea-f71d-89b2>i thought it was ok, but admittedly it's been about fifteen years since i last tried it
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11:17<stuckey>What's the package name of the mp3 encoder in debian?
11:17<stuckey>I found toolame but that only does MPEG-1 layer 2.
11:17<themill>LinuxMafia: Why are you blindly following tutorials on the web and adding in random sources to apt? Stick with debian mirrors and read and understand documentation yourself.
11:17<cahoot>stuckey: probably lame from debian.multimedia
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11:19<stuckey>Why isn't there an mp3 encoder in debian?
11:19<cahoot>non free
11:19<valdyn>stuckey: because of software patents
11:19<stew>stuckey: becuase they are protected by patent being actively enforced
11:19<stew>stuckey: to use the software, you'd often need to buy a license
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11:20<stuckey>Is mp2 the same thing?
11:20<themill>stuckey: perhaps you'd like to encode to ogg instead? Many portable music players will play formats other than mp3.
11:20<valdyn>stuckey: it doesnt even have the same name
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11:20<bja>stuckey: lame
11:21<stuckey>Yeah, I already know about ogg.
11:21<dpkg>Lame Ain't an MP3 Encoder. Debian does not distribute LAME due to patent and infrastructure issues. Binary packages are available from <debian-multimedia> or <rarewares>. Upstream sources, with build instructions for Debian at or
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11:21<bja>valdyn: thx
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11:23<stuckey>Anyone know how to transcode a flac file to ogg?
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11:24<bja>valdyn: a link on the lame factoid to "how to compile using Debian rules" would help.
11:24<c4ea-f71d-89b2>stuckey: sox
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11:26<stuckey>c4ea-f71d-89b2: there's also "vorbis-tools"
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11:37-!-mode/#debian [+l 433] by debhelper
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11:40<stuckey>How do I redirect the stuff that's in the terminal to a file? I did oggenc file > logfile.txt but there's nothing in the .txt file
11:40<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, stderr is program 1>stdout.log 2>stderr.log
11:41<stuckey>Oh I need to put a 1> like that?
11:41<stuckey>what's 1 do?
11:41<stuckey>what's the difference?
11:42<petemc>one is stderr, the other is stdout
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11:43<c4ea-f71d-89b2>stuckey: specifically chapter 5
11:43<stuckey>haha thanks
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11:44<bja>stuckey: apt-get install rutebook for the sake of sanity
11:44<stuckey>bja: that didn't return any results
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11:51<bja>stuckey: You have to read it, it won't return any results any other way :)
11:52<cryingtux>themill: sorry i was disconnected then, and you mentioned dmm not lmm, sorry for that too
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11:54<Alexe>Ses koi sa
11:54<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr sur French users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr on
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11:56<Yesu>does anyone here know how to install gnomenu themes? I have the .tar.gz files but I don't know how to install the themes; I tried to through the theme preferences window, but it can't install the .tar.gz files; when I unpack them, I can't install the .png files, what do I do?
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12:01<tombs>hi all, I'm a little lost to make my wireless card authenticate with the ap, using wpa2. could someone please tell me if I need wpasupplicant & hostapd or only one of them? please
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12:01<valdyn>tombs: just wpasupplicant
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12:02<pati>'s/\((\d+)\+(\d+)\)/$EXPR{($1+$2)}, /g', what is wrong in this regex?
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12:03<tombs>valdyn: ok...I'll keep trying :)
12:03<bja>pati: what is wrong with the world?
12:03<themill>pati: depends what program you're feeding it to and what you want it to do
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12:04<charzero>I have autologin set up, but after login, a window pops up before the wireless connects that says: The application 'NetworkManager Applet' (/usr/bin/nm-applet) wants to access the default keyring, but it is locked. Is there a way to have the wireless connect automatically without this popping up?
12:04<pati>themill: perl, replace all sum pairs with the result, what do you think?
12:05<pati>bja: i am not sure what you mean
12:05<bja>pati: That was the point neither was I
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12:05<pati>bja: oh, read the explanation for the-dude
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12:07<enouf>s/the-dude/themill/ ?
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12:07<pati>bja: sorry, i was probably too focused so i thought the context was obvious for everybody
12:07<pati>yes, enkrypt
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12:08<pati>sorry :)
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12:08<bja>pati: it happens to all of us :)
12:08<enouf>no worries - happens to the best of us
12:09*enouf sighs as he realizes he needs to learn perl just to make irssi acceptable for use in an xterm ...
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12:10<cryingtux>can somebody help me fix this issue im getting with live tv on opera and iceweasel please?
12:11<tombs>valdyn: but if I use wicd to try to connect, the first thing from the general settings is the wpasupplicant driver(hostap/wext/madwifi/atmel/ipw/ndiswrapper)...
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12:11<cryingtux>i dont see any such plugin in syanptic
12:12<gsimmons>charzero: See
12:12<valdyn>tombs: wpasupplicant does the wpa2, the things in () is drivers
12:12<valdyn>tombs: pick your driver
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12:13<valdyn>tombs: obviously you already have one 'selected' or you wouldnt have a wlan interface at all
12:13<valdyn>tombs: hostap is access point software, you dont want that
12:14<tombs>valdyn: thats the point. I don't get it
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12:14<valdyn>tombs: there has been a wide range of different drivers with incompatible interfaces, that is why you get to pick one
12:15<valdyn>tombs: i dont know why wicd still makes you pick one and does not autodetect
12:15<gsimmons>tombs: Use wext. The hostap, madwifi and test wpa_supplicant backups have been dropped from Debian's 'wpasupplicant' package anyway.
12:15<tombs>ok ok
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12:16<valdyn>tombs: nowadays all drivers should conform to the same standard, gsimmons obviously knows wich one that is
12:17-!-mode/#debian [+l 441] by debhelper
12:17<tombs>valdyn: just to be sure...we are not talking about the driver from the wireless card right?
12:17<valdyn>tombs: we are
12:17<tombs>my driver is p54
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12:17<valdyn>tombs: the interface wpasupplicant has to talk to your driver is what existed in different incarnations on different drivers
12:17<valdyn>tombs: now its probably all conformant to wext, i dont have a clue about taht detail
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12:18<tombs>I will check wext
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12:19<valdyn>tombs: are you not using the wicd debian package?
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12:20<pati>themill: do you know what's wrong?
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12:24<themill>pati: I've not looked closely. For this sort of thing it helps a lot if you can pastebin a perl one-liner with some sample data to help debug it. I'm pretty sure that $EXPR is wrong though. I've not done evals in perl regexs for a while, but (?{$1+$2}) seems more likely (from very vague memories!)
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12:26<pati>themill: i think there's some variable, like EXPR, but maybe another one, can you think of an alternative?
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12:28<themill>pati: yes there could well be a variable called $EXPR if you've defined one in your perl script, but to get the code to eval in the regexp, you need a different syntax
12:28<enouf>pati: have you tried a #perl channel? maybe on
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12:32<pati>themill: how do i print the environment vars in perl?
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12:34<themill>pati: you really want #perl on freenode, google and a good book for this. foreach (keys %ENV) { print "$_=$ENV{$_}\n"; }
12:34<themill>btw are we doing your homework?
12:35<pati>no, i need to process some text
12:35<nobird>kids! homework time now! what is the difference between the source and the binary....
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12:36<themill>or if you're feeling more funky: map { print "$_=$ENV{$_}\n"; } keys %ENV
12:36<themill>but I should stop now....
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12:37<valdyn>nobird: wrong channel
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12:39<nobird>valdyn, why do you react? homework not done ? :-)
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12:42<interbird>i am still pulling out my hair about this time-sync problem i have...
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12:44<geophoenix>where i can find information,documentation about programming in debian ?
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12:45<thelyn>good evening
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12:46<themill>geophoenix: programming what?
12:46<geophoenix>i want to create some simple applications with C in Debian
12:47-!-mode/#debian [+l 439] by debhelper
12:47<themill>!b-e geophoenix
12:47<dpkg>geophoenix: Sounds like you need to aptitude install build-essential.
12:47<themill>geophoenix: and after that, an introductory C book is what you need -- nothing is really Debian specific for simple C apps
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12:49<geophoenix>to be more specific , i want to create a CLI tool that lists all your installed packages and outputs the results ( i know which command with dpkg does that ) , but i need to know things like where is the list of installed applications in Debian ? /var/lib/dpkg/ ? usr/bin/?
12:50<c4ea-f71d-89b2>also keep in mind that c sucks
12:50<c4ea-f71d-89b2>geophoenix: /var/lib/dpkg and the status file
12:50<valdyn>geophoenix: why dont you get a C book and learn
12:50<compgrokker>geophoenix: and any linux-specific libraries you'll need have manpages
12:50<thelyn>if c sucks, what do not?
12:51<geophoenix>where can i find that kind of information ?
12:51<valdyn>geophoenix: library
12:51<xemacs4321>!start editor war
12:51<valdyn>geophoenix: google
12:51<dpkg>There are a myriad different ways to install Debian. See for a list of images. Ask me about <install guide> and <d-i> for detailed instructions. (If you've never installed Debian before, you should read the install guide.)
12:51<dpkg>To list installed packages, dpkg -l |awk '/^[hi]i/{print $2}'; or aptitude search -F '%p' '~i'; or ask me about <aptitude clone> <debian clone>
12:51<interbird>c does not suck; your system is running on it
12:51<themill>geophoenix: ^^ you don't need to do this in C and you there are solutions around already in other languages
12:52<themill>interbird: C sucks pretty badly for string processing though
12:52<thelyn>yes, in fact i was questioning c4ea-f71d-89b2
12:52<c4ea-f71d-89b2>interbird: those two statements are completely unrelated, afaict
12:52<c4ea-f71d-89b2>thelyn: all programming languages suck. some less than others
12:52<geophoenix>ok , thank you
12:52<themill>You can write fortran in any language...
12:52<thelyn>if you say this i trust you... i'm not a programmer ,-)
12:52<c4ea-f71d-89b2>c is pretty far toward the sucky end, though, except for really low-level things when you're forced to do them
12:52<valdyn>starting to learn C by writing a text processing tool is silly
12:53<valdyn>geophoenix: ^^
12:53<compgrokker>c4ea-f71d-89b2: different languages have different strengths for different things
12:53<c4ea-f71d-89b2>compgrokker: thanks for the newsflash
12:53<compgrokker>c4ea-f71d-89b2: you're welcome
12:54<c4ea-f71d-89b2>geophoenix: anyway, if you want to grovel around with strings, try playing with perl or python or something
12:54<interbird>c does not suck; c is what real programs are made of; strings or no strings
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12:55<thelyn>how many wisdom
12:55<c4ea-f71d-89b2>you're a very silly person
12:55<valdyn>interbird: now give as an example of a popular programming language that real programs are not made of
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12:56<interbird>valdyn: popular?
12:56<jeremiah>valdyn: Haskel :P
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12:56<valdyn>jeremiah: im not sure id call haskel popular
12:56<charzero>MS Access.
12:56<jeremiah>valdyn: Besides, there is stuff written in it, like Xmonad
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12:57<valdyn>jeremiah: yea
12:57<c4ea-f71d-89b2>in my experience, the only people who devoutly defend c are those who have no experience with more powerful languages
12:57<jeremiah>No troll there.
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12:57<valdyn>C is useful
12:57<compgrokker>c4ea-f71d-89b2: more powerful languages?
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12:57<valdyn>theres no point in debating that really
12:57<jeremiah>There is no debate.
12:58<jeremiah>Or rather, that is all there is, debate
12:58<interbird>the very kernel of your system is programmed in c; can anyone think-up a language with that expression power so close to a machine ?
12:58<jeremiah>interbird: Assembler?
12:58<c4ea-f71d-89b2>interbird: hehe
12:59<interbird>that is the only correct answer; i forgot 'portable'
12:59*themill points towards #debian-offtopic
12:59<c4ea-f71d-89b2>compgrokker: aptitude install sbcl
13:00<interbird>C rules, and all other shit are derivatives
13:00<compgrokker>c4ea-f71d-89b2: ah ok, lisp
13:00<c4ea-f71d-89b2>judd versions sbcl
13:00<judd>c4ea-f71d-89b2: sbcl -- etch: 1: lenny: 1: squeeze: 1: sid: 1:
13:00<compgrokker>never finished learning it
13:00<themill>the more you say that, the more it sounds like you've never actually had to write anything beyond "hello world" in C
13:00<interbird>you think so?
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13:02<interbird>that's fine with me; just remember what you are running and what it's programmed in; feel free to reprogram it in lisp or scheme...
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13:02<interbird>every language has it's merits, but c is the all compassing...
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13:17<x-ip>hi all
13:17*arriesp bye
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13:17<pbn>Hi there, got a problem. I did a fresh install of Debian "squeeze" with KDE 4.2.x ... everything works except one thing: pidgin and xchat can't play mp3 or ogg sounds. pidgin plays "white noise" instead of sounds, and xchat states it cannot play .mp3 or .ogg... Perhaps did I forget to install or configure something ? Note: gstreamer0.10-alsa is installed. Any idea ?
13:18-!-freex [] has joined #debian
13:18<interbird>maybe look for the "bad" codecs in the repos ?
13:18<jthomas_sb>gstreamer-plugins-bad i think it is
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13:20<darcy>I want to setup gdm to accept samba users from a server and automatically mount their home dirs. Any pointers to documentation on that ?
13:20<jthomas_sb>I have SSH-jailing set up so that when certain users log in they are restricted to the homedir that is in /etc/ssh/sshd_config . However, the bash prompt that shows doesn't have the aliases that we've created, unless the jailed user manually runs 'bash' and then the prompt changes and the aliases work. Anyone know how to fix this or how to force 'bash' to run?
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13:21<stuckey>Can anyone tell me why exactly lame isn't open source?
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13:21<stuckey>Just because it is patented?
13:22<interbird>darcy: not by heart, but you might want to look into pam (pluggable authentication modules) and stuff like ldap
13:22<charzero>stuckey: It is open source.
13:22<jthomas_sb>it is open source and Free Software both, but it also possibly infringes on patents (specifically the MP3 patent)
13:22<stuckey>So therefore it isn't in debian?
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13:22<pbn>interbird, jthomas_sb : thanks, trying
13:22<jthomas_sb>correct, but it is in the debian-multimedia repos
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13:22<c4ea-f71d-89b2>jthomas_sb: where did you put the aliases
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13:23<jthomas_sb>in the jail's etc/bash.bashrc file
13:23<stuckey>But I thought it's only the mp3 standard that's patented?
13:23<themill>stuckey: at a guess, the ftp-masters aren't that keen on being sued for distributing patent-infringing programs.
13:23<darcy>infernix, I've been doing that all day, all docs seem to be outdated or don't work. Also, ldap is out of the question here
13:23<c4ea-f71d-89b2>jthomas_sb: bash's startup file handling is terrible
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13:24<themill>dpkg, lame is also
13:24<dpkg>Ugh, is also's aura of lame is affecting me!
13:24<themill>dpkg, you such
13:24<dpkg>I resemble that remark!
13:24<c4ea-f71d-89b2>jthomas_sb: try putting them in the profile file instead
13:24<interbird>infernix ? if you cannot read my name you are by yourself :-)
13:24<themill>charzero: nice link... I'll convince dpkg to swallow it in a /msg
13:24<darcy>interbird, tab autocompletion ftl :p
13:24<interbird>nasty :-)
13:25<interbird>you know on and off start with the same letter ?
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13:25<jthomas_sb>c4ea-f71d-89b2 a problem with that is, the user's home is (say) /www/ but once the jail comes into effect, that directory doesn't exist within the jail's root. So, without a home, the user gets dumped into the root of that jail and .bashrc and .profile are ignored because they're not in the home.
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13:25<c4ea-f71d-89b2>jthomas_sb: i mean /etc/profile
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13:26<jthomas_sb>i'll look into that then, thanks c4ea-f71d-89b2
13:26<c4ea-f71d-89b2>jthomas_sb: the bashrc files are only read for non-login shells, which is why they work when you run it again manually
13:26<c4ea-f71d-89b2>jthomas_sb: but consider switching to zsh
13:27<jthomas_sb>its not my call but i'll suggest it.
13:27<ml|>stuckey: lame is in dmm
13:27<stuckey>ml|: Thanks
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13:28<ml|>have you decided to add dmm to your sources.list
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13:29<stuckey>xanadu ?
13:29<pbn>by the way, where is ogg123 in Debian "squeeze" ? Is it gone ?
13:29<jthomas_sb>c4ea-f71d-89b2 putting the aliases there did work, thanks!
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13:30<pawel>How to execute a program as some user (in batch script - no password typing) when I am root?
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13:30<c4ea-f71d-89b2>pawel: su
13:30<stuckey>xanadu is a bot...
13:30<pawel>c4ea-f71d-89b2: I want to execute a program as a regular user when I am root
13:31<pawel>not other way round
13:31<c4ea-f71d-89b2>pawel: man su
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13:34<interbird>pawel: suid
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13:35<pawel>it's exactly what I need
13:35<interbird>does not work for shell-scripts
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13:37<pawel>now my command looks like gksu newx 'su pawel --command "/usr/games/openarena"'
13:37<themill>you get root privs in order to drop them?
13:37<interbird>and does it work ?
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13:38<c4ea-f71d-89b2>wait, gksu? wtf
13:38<c4ea-f71d-89b2>i bet he uses gtktrue too
13:38<interbird>why would you run a game with root priv ?????????????
13:38<themill>interbird: it's not
13:39<c4ea-f71d-89b2>sadly, there's no longer a debian package for gtktrue
13:39<themill>pawel: If you just want to be able to change the user that the program is running as, use sudo -u pawel
13:40*interbird is gonna install potato; now that was a time...
13:40<pawel>themill: I am starting new x session - root privileges are needed for it, then dropping root privileges and starting a game as normal user
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13:41<bja>pawel: Why would you need on the first place root privilidges for an X sessions ??
13:42<c4ea-f71d-89b2>x is already setuid root
13:42<pawel>because 'xinit $@ -- :1 -layout GameLayout' needs those privileges
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13:43<interbird>you need X to accept foreign connection
13:43<bja>pawel: or have it started from the console as a normal user
13:44<pawel>bja: I am starting it from menu
13:44<pawel>as normal user
13:45<interbird>pawel: what do you want to accomplish ?
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13:46<pawel>I want to start new x session and start a game in it as normal user
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13:47<pawel>X won't start without root privileges, but I want to start a game as user 'pawel'
13:47<interbird>so, start an X under some user, make X accept other connections and as the other user display your prog on that X server
13:48<themill>umm... that's precisely what he's trying to do
13:48<pawel>yes, but it dos not work
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13:48<pawel>X session starts and immediatly terminates
13:49<pawel>I don't know why
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13:49<interbird>You have to make X accept other connections; dunno by heart; it somewhere in the config; it's simple but i dunno by heart
13:50<themill>if you "dpkg-reconfigure x11-common" and allow "anybody" that will work
13:50<themill>interbird: the problem is *starting* the second X session.
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13:50<cahoot>xnest/xephyr wouldn't do?
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13:51<interbird>themill: i thought it was starting X as a non-root user; a second instance just requires the :5 (or so) parameter
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13:51<themill>I'm presuming this is to get a hardware-accelerated screen at a particular resolution with just one thing fullscreen. Perhaps. maybe
13:51<themill>interbird: tias
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13:53<pawel>themill: This is bacause I can't minimize fullscreen games
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13:55<pawel>I start second session and swithch between game and other things by ^ Alt FX
13:55<interbird>why oh why does my dear lenny boot and not sync the time with inet? i've tried a lot; tz is correct; how can i fix this shitty thingie ?
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13:56<c4ea-f71d-89b2>!fgi interbird debug-ntp
13:57<themill>interbird: is it a constant offset? Messages in the logs? Virtual machine?
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13:59<interbird>themill: yes; always two hours; i have to manually do /etc/init.d/ntp restart -- then it syncs... I've really been at it to solve it but still to no avail -- the only positive thing about it is that i'm younger :-)
14:00<themill>interbird: dual boot machine?
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14:01<themill>and is your BIOS clock supposedly set to UTC too and does /etc/default/rcS reflect that fact?
14:01<themill>!set the time
14:01<dpkg>To set the time in debian, use date --set. The truly enlightened user, however, will install <ntp> to have their clock set automatically on reboot and slewed to match time servers. You may also need to run dpkg-reconfigure tzdata (lenny and later) or tzconfig (etch and earlier) to set the time zone, and verify the UTC setting in /etc/default/rcS prior.
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14:01<interbird>themill: yes, multiple: mint 6,7 etc. no win. sometimes it's ok when i booted another sys; but that's just the rtc; it should sync...
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14:01<drakeman>ml|, hey man how ur, u ..
14:02<themill>interbird: make sure each of the OSs agree about whether your hwclock is in UTC or not. Since you're in UTC+2 a 2 hour difference could just be from that
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14:02<interbird>themill: it looks like time-sync does not work because wifi is not up yet, but after it's up, ntp should sync, true ?
14:03<interbird>themill: i don't think that is the case
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14:03<interbird>themill: ntp should sync
14:03<interbird>themill: i could have my rtc on 1970
14:03<themill>ntp will refuse to sync if the difference is too great. It assumes that something is wrong instead.
14:04<c4ea-f71d-89b2>he's been asking about this since this morning instead of doing the things stated in that first google hit
14:04<interbird>themill: ntp should sync when the inet connction is made; all other systems do that except lenny...
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14:04<ml|>drakeman: hello and fine thank you
14:04<themill>interbird: they may be using ntpdate rather than ntp. Or they may be using a different ntp config (/msg dpkg ntpdate)
14:04<interbird>themill: i can understand that but i also tried other time servers
14:05<ml|>ntpdate is depreciate
14:06<interbird>i have both installed; non of my other systems have this behaviour; whatever the current value of the cmos rtc is; it's lenny and i don't know where to look anymore
14:06<themill>interbird: ntpdate != ntp. It's designed to be used on ifup and will do a step change.
14:06<interbird>i know ntp !=ntpdate
14:06<interbird>when i boot mint 7; time is ok
14:06<interbird>when i boot mint 6; time is ok
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14:06<themill>interbird: and mint uses ntp or ntpdate? and it uses what config?
14:07-!-mode/#debian [+l 439] by debhelper
14:07<interbird>when i boot lenny; time is off by 2 hrs
14:07*themill gives up
14:07<c4ea-f71d-89b2>themill: glad to see you're catching up with 12 hours ago ;)
14:07<interbird>themill: tried to grab stuff from mint but did not work; (like getting the drift-file)
14:07<c4ea-f71d-89b2>!fgi interbird debug-ntp
14:08<themill>it's got nothing to do with drift and I'll bet it has nothing to do with ntp config at all... it's most likely that you have different settings for whether the hwclock is in UTC or not.
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14:08<themill>Unless you specifically configure it otherwise, debian's ntp will *not* correct a 2h offset.
14:09<c4ea-f71d-89b2>and if that's the case, it will be blindingly obvious from the big log message about not changing the time because the offset is too big
14:09<themill>Which leaves you screwed until you start thinking about this and doing something.
14:09<interbird>c4ea-f71d-89b2: you miss my point; what makes lenny not sync ? i know how to set time...
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14:09<themill>interbird: [19:08] <themill> Unless you specifically configure it otherwise, debian's ntp will *not* correct a 2h offset.
14:09<c4ea-f71d-89b2>interbird: talk to the hand
14:10<interbird>it did before; no probs with sarge
14:10<interbird>ehh, etch
14:10<ml|>interbird: did you try to with different servers in config
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14:10<interbird>ml|: yes i did, to no avail
14:11<interbird>so i just wonder....
14:11<interbird>i set mu rtc to 1970
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14:11<interbird>then boot mint
14:11<interbird>mint corrects
14:11<interbird>then i reset rtc to 1970 again
14:11<interbird>lenny also corrects but i 2 hrs off
14:11<interbird>tz is correct
14:11<jthomas_sb>what does this error mean? When I ssh in I am getting this: "-bash: relocation error: /lib/tls/i686/cmov/ symbol _dl_out_of_memory, version GLIBC_PRIVATE not defined in file with link time reference"
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14:12<themill>interbird: there are some machines that require a boot parameter to correct a hwclock offset. They're pretty rare and I thought that was only older kernels.
14:12<ml|>interbird: maybe take a look on what /usr/share/doc/ntp/ has to say
14:12<c4ea-f71d-89b2>jthomas_sb: nice. does it even start? what does ldd return when run against bash
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14:13<c4ea-f71d-89b2>jthomas_sb: did you include shared libs in your chroot env
14:13<jthomas_sb>c4ea-f71d-89b2 yeah there should be all of the ldd-results in the chroot env
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14:14<jthomas_sb> => /lib/i686/cmov/ (0xb7e09000)
14:14<c4ea-f71d-89b2>jthomas_sb: but it happens only in the chroot and not on the main system, right?
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14:14<jthomas_sb>correct c4ea-f71d-89b2
14:14<c4ea-f71d-89b2>jthomas_sb: so something's not quite right with the chroot
14:15<c4ea-f71d-89b2>you could try strace
14:15<interbird>themill: i cannot understand your reasoning; if the parameter is not needed by ubuntu or mint (both derivatives of debian) then why would it be a machine issue ?
14:15<jthomas_sb>i'm not familiar with that
14:15<interbird>ml|: lookin' into that
14:15<c4ea-f71d-89b2>jthomas_sb: how are you providing the shared libs to the chroot? bind mount?
14:15<themill>interbird: I'm suggesting that's not the case. Which only leaves a pebkac configuration issue that you refuse to consider.
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14:16<jthomas_sb>i've copied them to the partition into a 'master jail' and then hardlink them into each individual jail
14:16<c4ea-f71d-89b2>i like how he'll consider everything but the "step-by-step how to debug ntp" guide
14:16<themill>interbird: each of those do, however, use different kernels with different configs and different apic modules (which is where the problem was)
14:17<c4ea-f71d-89b2>jthomas_sb: try a bind mount instead, that's a lot nicer
14:17<jthomas_sb>i don't know that one either :)
14:17<interbird>themill: of course i will consider your input; don't misunderstand me; but how would a thing like apic be of issue? i boot, network comes up; ntp syncs and that's it
14:17<c4ea-f71d-89b2>jthomas_sb: man mount
14:17<jthomas_sb>will do
14:17<interbird>but not for me on lenny
14:18<c4ea-f71d-89b2>jthomas_sb: summary: mount --bind /some/existing/dir /new/dir
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14:18<jthomas_sb>what does it do tho?
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14:18<interbird>so, what makes lenny think it's in another timezone ?
14:18<c4ea-f71d-89b2>makes the contents of /some/existing/dir also transparently available via the path /new/dir
14:18<jthomas_sb>across partitions/devices?
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14:20<jthomas_sb>man i messed up my jails something fierce
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14:23<interbird>themill: i quote you: "each of those do, however, use different kernels with different configs and different apic modules (which is where the problem was)" You are suggesting my time-prob is in the kernel-config ? You must be joking...
14:24<ml|>interbird: did you dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
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14:24<interbird>ml|: 1st thing i did
14:24<interbird>it's correct
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14:29<interbird>themill: can you pore some light on your kernel-config theory ?
14:29<ml|>interbird: he left
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14:31<interbird>if my time-prob is in the kernel-config my nick will be dumbird for ever
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14:32<interbird>don't get enthousiastic ml| :-)
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14:33<ml|>i don't get why ntp is not working for you
14:33<interbird>surprise! me not too
14:33<interbird>and i want to fix it, and i will
14:34<interbird>just takes some time, but i got 2 hours :-)
14:34<ml|>heh gl
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14:35<ml|>when you do plz lmk i'm curious to find out
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14:36<c4ea-f71d-89b2>not surprising it doesn't work, since he's been repeating "it doesn't work" all day instead of actually troubleshooting it
14:37<interbird>ml|: when i find what's bugging me on this-one, i'll let you know; i'm soo curious and one of these days i'm gonna sit-down and tackle the fsck'er...
14:37<interbird>locklace: get a life
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14:38<ml|>nice nick :P
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14:38<c4ea-f71d-89b2>it's a uuid, you can thank themill
14:38<interbird>it's not a uuid, just a part of it
14:39<interbird>the *time* part
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14:40<Yesu>does anyone know how to install .png themes for gnomenu? using the install feature under theme preferences is not working :(
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14:40<interbird>what is gnomenu?
14:40<Yesu>gnome menu pretty m uch
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14:41<interbird>and what do you want with this menu ?
14:41-!-AbsintheSyringe [~havoc@] has joined #debian
14:41<interbird>you tried the menu-editor?
14:42<interbird>like right-click on the gnome-menu and then edit-menus ?
14:42<interbird>and what do you wnt to do ?
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14:44<Yesu>just install this theme
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14:45<interbird>Yesu: the icons in the menu are bound to your current theme; you can find them in /usr/share.themes; some themes are older some are more recent; you can make your own icon-theme; look at
14:45<Yesu>ok, cool man, thanks
14:46<interbird>also, in your user-dir; thing get overridden in ~/.local....
14:46<jthomas_sb>c4ea-f71d-89b2 thank goodness for backups; jailing is working again... as for that issue, its not happening any more but nor is the one user jailed like he should have been (when I initially messed it all up)
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14:50<interbird>9cb2b39c-5201-11de-b2ba-2f6d12cf7303: sorry missed that; what were you saying ?
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14:56<interbird>ml|: still i wonder what it is; i just follow logic; system has rtc, then boots up, ntp gets acivated but there's no wifi network yet; should it not retry when the inet connection is up ? What mi missing....
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14:56<interbird>am i
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15:02<pawel>how to teaminate a session in ^ ALT F9 ?
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15:03<interbird>session? like an x-session? ctrl-alt-backspace
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15:06<ml|>interbird: to me it seems to be an issue with wifi starting after ntp, but ntp should try again anyways, you said that timezone is correct, and ntp config is correct so dunno
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15:06<MyWifeIs19>are there any window manager that will let me open a X program on virtual desktop Y through shell? (I hate mouse...)
15:06<ml|>xmonad :)
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15:08<interbird>ml|: yeah, glad you follow my logic; when i tackle it i'll let you know; thanks for your input
15:08<E0x_>MyWifeIs19: with virtual desktop you mean workspace ?
15:08<E0x_>pekwm , Awesome WM
15:09<interbird>MyWifeIs19: virtual desktops without a mouse? good luck!
15:09<MyWifeIs19>E0x_, yes. wmaker calls it workspace, but there seems to be no way to do it through shell script
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15:09<amphi>MyWifeIs19: perhaps wmctrl will be of use
15:10<interbird>perhaps screen or dvtm ?
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15:10<amphi>interbird: what does mouse have to do with multiple workspaces?
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15:10<E0x_>MyWifeIs19: with pekwm using keybind you can send the app to another workspace
15:10<E0x_>or you can configu the autoproperties
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15:10<E0x_>for alway run that app in X workspace
15:11<ml|>that can be done in xmonad to
15:11<interbird>amphi: in what context ?
15:11<E0x_>dwm do that too i think
15:11<MyWifeIs19>ml|, without knowing haskell?
15:11<E0x_>and ion3
15:11<amphi>interbird: < interbird> MyWifeIs19: virtual desktops without a mouse? good luck!
15:12<amphi>interbird: sorry, I must afk
15:12<ml|>MyWifeIs19: you just have to do alot of reading and trial and error without knowing haskell
15:12<ml|>MyWifeIs19: but it is worth it
15:13<ml|>!coffee amphi
15:13*dpkg decants a fine broth of Peruvian for amphi, courtesy of ml|
15:13<E0x_>in pekwm is easy
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15:13<E0x_>by deafult coming with the keybind for send a app to a Y workspace
15:13<interbird>amphi: you mean desktop, like graphical? possible to manipulate with the kb? those are not desktops... the are window-managers
15:13<E0x_>mod4+f4 send the focus app to the workspace 4
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15:17<MyWifeIs19>wmctrl looks promising, and xmonad is tempting....
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15:32<ml|>man pacpl is tha bomb yo :-)
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15:51<AzaTht>I'm sure this is a known issue, but google only refered to an debian-user unreplied post made the 4:th june; I notice that my AltGr isn't working everywhere after last upgrade
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15:52<AzaTht>and it's strange
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15:53<AzaTht>can't even type tilde in terminal at the moment
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15:56<AzaTht>anyone has a good idea what could interfer?
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15:59<pexji>re-write the question ^^
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16:00<AzaTht>the question in short: "Why does the AltGr dead key stops function properly after a while?"
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16:02<AzaTht>xev seems to see the key correctly:
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16:03<pexji>keycode is correct
16:04<locklace>themill: so much for that idea
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16:05<Aff>I have a question
16:06<Aff>anybody here???
16:06<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
16:06<locklace>you're a tool
16:06<Aff>ok, i have a Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 64bit, and i want to test Debian
16:06-!-foka [~foka@] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
16:06<Aff>and which file do i have to load?
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16:07<ghantoos>Aff: ?
16:08<Aff>Ok the I386 version is right?
16:08<Aff>amd64 or i386?
16:09<xemacs4321>Aff you might try out a live-cd first
16:09<patrikf>Aff: go read the pages
16:09<shamanix>amd64 if you want proper 64bit
16:09<Aff>ok thx
16:09<Aff>yes i will
16:09<shamanix>i386 is 32bit
16:09<AzaTht>pexji: ok
16:09<Aff>ok thx
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16:10<ghantoos>sorry, didn't know it was 64bits :/
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16:11<locklace>!bomb null
16:11*dpkg drops a humongous exploding turd on null
16:11<null>somebody knows how can I save3 the boot output??
16:11<dpkg>methinks bootlogd is disabled by default. Change /etc/default/bootlogd to "Yes" to get your /var/log/boot file. For the reason behind the default, see (fixed since sysvinit 2.86.ds1-11). Not a command (as opposed to dmesg).
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16:12<null>see you soon
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16:14<Uhriventiss>I want to get Debian but there are several DVD packages which one do I get?
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16:14<locklace>Uhriventiss: get the netinstall image
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16:15<Uhriventiss>Well, I have a wireless card and connect to insecure connections so it may go down or stay up
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16:15<locklace>Uhriventiss: as long as you have connectivity during the install, that's fine
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16:16<Uhriventiss>But, if I was to download the DVD I would have to download all five .isos?
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16:16<Yesu>does anyone know how to change every instance of the iceweasel icon?
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16:17<Uhriventiss>"his may be through a PCMCIA adapter on laptops. Internal (PCI) ISDN cards and WLAN cards are not supported — sorry!"
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16:19<darcy>I run apt-get install slapd, choose password and dn, run ldapsearch -x and the result is empty (result: 32 No such object). What's up ? Using hardy, slapd 2.4.9
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16:27<Supaplex>darcy: hardy is not a debian release
16:27<Supaplex>!tell darcy -about ubuntu
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16:29<darcy>ermmm I meant sarge ?
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16:33<chealer>darcy: sarge is obsolete
16:34<darcy>ermmm I meant lenny ?
16:34<locklace>not very convincing. go to #ubuntu
16:34<Supaplex>I second that
16:34<darcy>damn :p
16:34<locklace>!lart darcy
16:34*dpkg urinates on darcy
16:35<darcy>bots don't pee
16:35<Supaplex>you haven't seen any movies lately
16:35<interbird>this one does
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16:49<jthomas_sb>wow, you had the bot pee on someone? thats so rude!
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16:50<locklace>no, "rude" is coming in here expecting ubuntu support
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16:52<eccheneso>ciao a tutti,uso debian lenny su un portatile sul quale ho da poco installato una scheda mini-pci che dovrebbe funzionare con il modulo ipw2100.ho copiato i firmware,la scheda viene correttamente riconosciuta ma non va...non rileva reti,qualcuno può indicarmi una soluzione?
16:52<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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17:06<SkyNET>I need connect to Debian España !
17:06<SkyNET>Who is ?
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17:06<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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17:13<dietnews>how do I use the nfs option map_static?
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17:13<dietnews>i get an unknown keyword error
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17:27<herard>mira daniel
17:27<herard>como se pone el comando get?
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17:27<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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17:35<dirk_>hey. I got the same problem as this fellow. do any of you know what to do? the fellow:
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17:36<wdye>Upon installing Wine and configuring my sound card. I started installing MS Flight Sim X, everthing went well untill the system asked for install disk #2. Got Error Message: "Cannot Eject Volume" "An application si preventing the volume 'UDF" Voulue from being ejected. I opened drive manually and inserted Disk #2 but system still thinks Disk #1 is in drive and will not give it up.
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17:38<themill>locklace: ?
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17:39<locklace>themill: some irc operator killed me because they mistook my uuid for a clonebot
17:39<themill>locklace: oops!
17:39<Nemoder>wdye: I believe that's a common issue with wine, check their support forums for workarounds or consider installing an open source flight sim like flightgear :)
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17:40<wdye>Didn't know about Flightgear, thanks
17:41<CyborgPirateNinja>FlightGear?.. Oh man, That's awesome.
17:41<wdye>Does Flightgear compare to FSX?
17:41<CyborgPirateNinja>Toobad my laptop overheated and burned/burnt out, Else I'd be playing.
17:41<CyborgPirateNinja>wdye, No offence to the FG devels in here, They're doing an awesome job!
17:42<CyborgPirateNinja>But it doesn't cope with FSX, If you want something like FSX? Goto xplane.
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17:42<Nemoder>wdye: It is similar, another option is x-plane although it is non-free but the do have a native linux demo
17:42<CyborgPirateNinja>Xplane is commercial, Like FSX, But FG is free and opensource afterall!
17:43<dirk_>how could I tell the fglrx driver not to power off the screen? its pretty boring to push the mouse every 10-15 min when watching a movie. "xset -dpms" doesn't work.
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17:44<CyborgPirateNinja>dirk_, Get a tool to wiggle your mouse! (HEY!, The dude from XKCD did it!)
17:44<sney>shouldn't thaht be in your acpi settings
17:44-!-devsoul [~slax@] has joined #debian
17:44<CyborgPirateNinja>(Too bad his date left while he was half way in the manpage... ;_; )
17:44<dirk_>CyborgPirateNinja, WHAT? hm.
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17:45<Nemoder>dirk_: try xset s off; xset -dpms; xscreensaver-command -exit
17:46<dirk_>alright. will try it. but damn... I have to wait 10-15 min to see if it works. hot damn.
17:46<xemacs4321>change timeouts
17:46<CyborgPirateNinja>Well, Sorry for spamming the room, So here's my question: I wanna get my bluetooth headset (Jabra BT2020) to work on lenny, Now I don't know where to start and on freenode a dude said I need the latest bluez stack (version >= 4), Now debian has version 3.16 or something, Right?
17:48<CyborgPirateNinja>Well, Is bluez built into the debian kernel (2.6.26-2-686), Is it a module and can I just compile that module and load it?
17:49<CyborgPirateNinja>And even what approach should I take to pairing (connecting) with my headset and connecting it to either ALSA, Pulseaudio or OSS?
17:49<dirk_>found something else... aticonfig --auto-powerstates=off --- hope it works....
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17:50<CyborgPirateNinja>dirk_, It's 23:50 (CEST) over there, Get yourself some coffee and watch some TV, Then get back!.. Aye!
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17:52<ed_debian>I have my hard drive set up with 3 (primary) partitions. 2 /'s and 1 /home & swap (in an extended) I have ubuntu and debian installed. I want my MBR to point to the /boot folder in debian so that I can configure grub inside debian (menu.lst ect ect) Can anybody help me??
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17:52<CyborgPirateNinja>ed_debian, If you know howto work with a terminal: man grub-install
17:53<CyborgPirateNinja>ed_debian, ALSO: BE SURE to have a live cd with you so you can atleast work on your system.
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17:54<CyborgPirateNinja>ed_debian, So eh, Why can't you edit menu.lst in Ubuntu anyways?
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17:54<ed_debian>CyborgPirateNinja, Can I not work on the MBR while I am mounted on that drive's partitions? Right now it is ubuntu but I want to use that second root partition as a place to try out different distros so I 'll need to keep changing what's there.
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17:56<CyborgPirateNinja>ed_debian, Well, In my humbly opinion? No way you should work on your harddrive raw, like MBR changes or even fsck.
17:56<CyborgPirateNinja>SO, Best bet would be to get a live cd and do it from there.
17:56<ed_debian>CyborgPirateNinja, That is a good idea. I'm probably going to use a live-cd to do this
17:56<CyborgPirateNinja>Also: Normally you can select NOT to overwrite the MBR when installing a distro.
17:57-!-mode/#debian [+l 424] by debhelper
17:57<interbird>i just wiped skype; it asked me for a password; which i entered a long time ago; it forgot my password so i purged it; and i am looking towards ekiga and similar open technologies; i'm relly gonna see if ekiga can make a connection between me and my friends
17:57<locklace>!tell ed_debian about grml
17:57<CyborgPirateNinja>!tell CyborgPirateNinja about grml
17:57<ed_debian>grub-install just lists how to install grub "to my harddrive" how do I specify that I want to use the /boot folder on (for example) /dev/sda2 ??
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17:57<CyborgPirateNinja>ed_debian, Browse a bit down mate!
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17:59<dpkg>I'm not your csh prompt!
17:59<CyborgPirateNinja>ed_debian, What?
17:59<ed_debian>CyborgPirateNinja, so /boot is simply a copy of my MBR?
18:00<ed_debian>"grub install copies GRUB images into DIR/boot..." ??
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18:00<CyborgPirateNinja>/boot/ is just a directory in your root where grub's config files and other binaries are.
18:01<dkr>all of grub doesn't fit in mbr, just a pointer to the images in /boot
18:01<CyborgPirateNinja>So if you grub-install with another root like this: --root-directory=DIR install GRUB images under the directory DIR instead of the root directory
18:02<CyborgPirateNinja>ed_debian, grub-install --root-directory=/mnt/ /dev/null #null just incase someone think's to execute this command and wrecks his install! :P
18:02<ed_debian>CyborgPirateNinja, Ok. So right now the grub in the boot sector is checking /dev/sda1/boot for those config files. I still don't understand how to get it to check /dev/sda2/boot instead. I don't see a flag in man grub-install?
18:02<CyborgPirateNinja>dkr is right..
18:03<CyborgPirateNinja>ed_debian, Wait, What?.. :s
18:03<CyborgPirateNinja>ed_debian, Oh lol, Just overwrite the current install ofcourse! :D
18:04<ed_debian>CyborgPirateNinja, So if run update-grub or grub-install from debian then the MBR will point to /dev/sda2 (debian) when looking for said config files?
18:04<ed_debian>I'm downloading gmrl BTW
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18:05<CyborgPirateNinja>ed_debian, It's not wise to run grub-install from debian IMHO.
18:05<CyborgPirateNinja>Second: We just wanna over-write the current bootloader (which grub-install will do!)
18:06*CyborgPirateNinja feels like working on a linux helpdesk :D
18:06<locklace>it's fine to run grub-install from a running system
18:06<CyborgPirateNinja>ed_debian, Well, We got that sorted out too! :P
18:06<interbird>nobody understands grub is a bootloader that can install itself once booted; root (hdx,y), that is where the grub files are in absolute (grub) notation, then setup (hd0) installs grub in the mbr; or setup(hd3,5) which will install the grub code on the 4th disk on the sixth partition; grub is just too cool to be understood correctly
18:07<ed_debian>CyborgPirateNinja, So I boot a live CD (ubuntu or grml or what have you) and run grub-install in terminal but how will it know that I want to use the /boot folder on /dev/sda2 and not /dev/sda1 (or any other partition for that matter)
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18:07<CyborgPirateNinja>ed_debian, Like I said... using the --root-directory=DIR
18:08<CyborgPirateNinja>ed_debian, BUT, I believe --root-directory will ALSO install /boot/grub/ on /dev/sda2
18:08<CyborgPirateNinja>umount /mnt/; mount /dev/sda2 /mnt/; grub-install --root-directory=/mnt/ /dev/sda2
18:09<CyborgPirateNinja>ed_debian, That should work neatly.
18:09<interbird>CyborgPirateNinja is talking out of her ass
18:10<CyborgPirateNinja>interbird, Since when did I turn female?..
18:10<ed_debian>I was thining "how the hell can I specify /dev/sda2" with root-directory=. Just mount it!!
18:10<interbird>since when you started talking shit bout grub
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18:11<CyborgPirateNinja>interbird, What shit did I talk about it?
18:11<ed_debian>grub is very self-conscious
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18:12<interbird>quote: "ed_debian, BUT, I believe --root-directory will ALSO install /boot/grub/ on /dev/sda2"
18:12<interbird>you believe ?
18:13<CyborgPirateNinja>interbird, So?.. Doesn't grub-install do that?
18:13<CyborgPirateNinja>Or am I a bit messed up here?
18:13<interbird>you are
18:13<ed_debian>Speaking of.. That's where the grub config files are right? Don't I want that folder there? (on a partition that isn't going to get erased?
18:13<CyborgPirateNinja>So /boot/grub/ is installed by a deb package?
18:13<ed_debian>BTW I already have that folder there
18:14<CyborgPirateNinja>ed_debian, You want it, But I thought overwriting it with a (possibly newer) install of grub could be a bit bad.
18:14<ed_debian>no no
18:14<ed_debian>It won't matter. I have to change what's there anyway because I am currently using the /boot/grub on /dev/sda1 and the one on /dev/sda2 is wrong
18:15<interbird>you don't understand the concept of grub;it does not rely on an os
18:15<ed_debian>interbird, It does read the menu.lst file correct?
18:15<ed_debian>locklace, Thank you I will read that
18:16<interbird>yes, it does
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18:16<CyborgPirateNinja>interbird, But it does rely on mounting an fs where /boot/grub/ is
18:16<interbird>but grub is independnt of pckages
18:16<CyborgPirateNinja>interbird, But dude, You totally don't get the picture do you?
18:17-!-mode/#debian [+l 418] by debhelper
18:17<interbird>grub is not in /boot/grub
18:17<interbird>that is where the menu of grub is
18:17<ed_debian>so grub works completely on an otherwise blank HD but is useless because it is there to point to an OS
18:17<CyborgPirateNinja>interbird, Yes and no, ERGO: partitially
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18:17<wooj>grub works by magic.
18:17<interbird>grub is where you tell it to be, with the setup hd(...) command
18:18<ed_debian>I think that somebody said a while ago though that Grub does not fit in the MBR and therefore some of the binaries are in /boot/grub
18:18<ed_debian>O wait
18:18<ed_debian>we're all wrong
18:18<ed_debian>It's magic
18:18<interbird>not partially, grub is there after the setup(hd...) command; that is where the grub code is
18:18<wooj>ed_debian, exactly.
18:18<ed_debian>he he
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18:19<sney>lilo is the one that's totally independent, since the only time it reads from its conf file is when you install it to the boot sector/mbr... you could install lilo from a linux livecd, tell it to point to other arbitrary OSes on the drive, and it would work without that conf file being anywhere nearby
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18:19<sney>I kinda miss lilo sometimes
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18:19<CyborgPirateNinja>sney, You can ofcourse install it! :P
18:19<interbird>grub is a boot-loader able to find it's menu and other partitions "on-the-fly"
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18:19<CyborgPirateNinja>sney, lilo
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18:19<sney>oh, yeah, I could. what I miss is it being standard
18:20<ed_debian>sney, ??
18:20<ed_debian>sney, That is a silly thing to miss don't you think?
18:20<sney>supporting lilo over IRC is easier than supporting grub over irc. among other things
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18:20<ed_debian>sney, Now you're just making excuses
18:20<sney>I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it or anything, it just came up because we were talking bootloaders. sheesh
18:20<CyborgPirateNinja>sney, Depends on the distro and experience one has.
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18:21<CyborgPirateNinja>Hey ed_debian, Wouldn't edbian be a better nick? :P
18:21<ed_debian>CyborgPirateNinja, That's brilliant!
18:21<interbird>grub rulez
18:22<CyborgPirateNinja>interbird, What grub are we talking about? Legacy or two?
18:22<CyborgPirateNinja>Because IF I am correct, Grub2 is still badly documented like it was a few months ago.
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18:23<interbird>grub2 is not advised for the unknowing
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18:23<ed_debian>HOw the F do you change your nick in Xchat?
18:23<interbird>but grub legacy as a bootloder rulez; name me one other loader where you can adjust parameters on-the-fly ?
18:24<dirk_>god dammit. nothing works. I've tried: xset -dpms, aticonfig --auto-powerstates=off -- I have also disabled all kind of screensavers. but STILL the screen powers down after 10-15 watching a movie.
18:24<bzed>ed_debian: /nick foo?
18:24<CyborgPirateNinja>ed_debian, OR click on your nick next to the input box.
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18:24<CyborgPirateNinja>ed_debian, altrough /nick is my preference.
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18:25<edbian>yeah that link locklace sent me was a (sh**y) FAQ about grub
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18:26<CyborgPirateNinja>ed_debian, What did you just do?
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18:26<edbian>CyborgPirateNinja, I opened 2 Xchats on accident
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18:27<CyborgPirateNinja>sney, Ah well, We all need a little fail from time to time.
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18:27<sney>the packaging for this pc engine smells funny
18:27<edbian>What is a pc engine?
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18:27<locklace>edbian: follow the see also links on the page
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18:27<sney>it's the japanese turbografx 16
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18:28<interbird>locklace is sometimes "out of touch"; he is from the apt-get generation; he wants you to read what he read while he has an answer for you...
18:28<edbian>locklace, IC thanks!
18:28<locklace>interbird: "apt-get generation"? wtf?
18:29<locklace>!lart interbird
18:29*dpkg chops interbird in half with a free Solaris 7 CD
18:29<interbird>apt-get source i'd liked more, locklace :-)
18:29<interbird>solaris 7?
18:30<edbian>Those are the most painful
18:30<CyborgPirateNinja>apt-get is something I still use, From time to time I say "@#$% GUIs, I'm going back to TTY1! harr"...
18:30<locklace>!tell CyborgPirateNinja about why aptitude
18:30<sney>I use apt-get because I fear new things
18:31<interbird>locklace: open or closed version? is the 7 closed version finally out ?
18:31<edbian>sney, Hence your nostalgia for lilo being standard?
18:31<sney>edbian: something like that
18:31<sney>also I've been out of the *nix loop for about 2 years and I'm just getting used to everything agian
18:31<CyborgPirateNinja>locklace, Indeed, If I can't get a package installed or I have broken dependencies I just switch to aptitude.
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18:32<locklace>CyborgPirateNinja: you should switch to aptitude and stick with it. otherwise you lose several of its benefits
18:32<edbian>CyborgPirateNinja, Does apt-get often leave you with broken dependencies?
18:32<sney>!why aptitude
18:32<dpkg>aptitude has more advanced conflict/dependency resolution than other tools, it has far more advanced searching available, and will automatically uninstall unneeded dependencies, read /usr/share/doc/aptitude/README for more info. Aptitude can also remove or purge one package at the same time as installing others all from the command line, making it much easier to recover from broken dependencies.
18:32<CyborgPirateNinja>locklace, Like what.
18:32<CyborgPirateNinja>edbian, Not really, Unless a few packages replace otherones, Or blablabla...
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18:33<edbian>locklace, Yes like what? I also use apt-get (I am slightly ashamed to say this but I though aptitude was the old app and apt-get was new)
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18:34<sney>edbian: well, the aptitude default view does resemble dselect
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18:34<deniz>if i file a bug for lenny, will it be fixed if it's not a security bug?
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18:34<leejongwook>c openssl - Secure Socket Layer (SSL) binary and related cryptographic tools <-- what is this ?
18:34<CyborgPirateNinja>deniz, What is that kind of question?
18:34<leejongwook>i just removed openssl..
18:34<CyborgPirateNinja>leejongwook, You did _WHAT_?!
18:34<leejongwook>is it ok ?
18:34<edbian>deniz, I read Linux himself saying that most bugs that aren't security basically are never fixed
18:34<CyborgPirateNinja>Never remove openssl, It's almost something vital to one's system.
18:35<deniz>CyborgPirateNinja, to my knowledge only security bugs are fixed in stable and little problems are fixed when it is testing or frozen as testing
18:35<leejongwook>wanted remove something else but.. typo error;;
18:35<interbird>the secret is: get your repository sane; you know, the /etc/apt/sources.list file -- if that one is sound, your system will also be
18:35<deniz>edbian, Linus* and so the best way to fix little bugs would be to catch them before the freeze of the next release?
18:35<leejongwook>sounds like....i think i may need to re-install debian again..
18:35<CyborgPirateNinja>leejongwook, Just reinstall it dude, Everything will be ok. lol
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18:35<CyborgPirateNinja>No, THE PACKAGE Lemonzest
18:35<leejongwook>oh... i see
18:36<deniz>leejongwook, use a home partition if u dont already
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18:36<leejongwook>thanks ~~ i'll be back... :)
18:37<leejongwook>wanna see what's gonna happen after reboot my pc....
18:37<sney>I also distrust aptitude because this tray icon that won't go away reminds me of the windows one
18:37<sney>and it says there are 2 updates available, but only shows 1
18:37<azeem>sney: that's not aptitude
18:37<interbird>locklace: what happened to your uuid-id ?
18:38<leejongwook>a little scared.... but i'll be ok.. :)
18:38<leejongwook>thanks all :)
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18:39<sney>oh, it's update notifier. wonder why I thought it was aptitude
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18:45<interbird>!slap locklace, i'm gonna reboot to see if my time-probbie is fixed...
18:45*dpkg strikes a resounding *THWAP* across locklace, i'm gonna reboot to see if my time-probbie is fixed...'s face
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19:54<hachi>does anyone know how to make network-manager not touch some interfaces?
19:54<Pitxyoki>Configure them with /etc/networking/
19:55<Pitxyoki>Configure them with /etc/network/interfaces, I mean.
19:55<hachi>not taking
19:55<hachi>I have an interface... a bridge, that I configure in there
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19:55<Pitxyoki>And nm is trying to configure it?
19:55<hachi>and network-manager is using the link status of my physical ethernet card and disabling and enabling that interface based on the link status
19:56<hachi>the physical link isn't even in the bridge, the bridge is empty
19:56<hachi>and the physical link isn't being configured at all anymore
19:56<Pitxyoki>Try adding a line to that ethernet card on the interfaces card.
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19:57<Pitxyoki>iface ethX inet static
19:57<Pitxyoki>I think that's enough for nm not to touch it.
19:57<hachi>I want the real interface to be touched though
19:57<Pitxyoki>By nm?
19:57<hachi>I want network manager to handle my wireless, and my ethernet card
19:58<hachi>I want it to leave the tap interfaces and bridge I'm using for virtual machines alone
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19:59<Pitxyoki>By what you say, I believe that's what it should be doing.
19:59<Pitxyoki>I've only started investigating how nm works recently.
19:59<hachi>the NEWS.Debian for network-manager say to look in /usr/share/doc/network-manager/README.Debian in the Configuration section for how it decides what interfaces to control
20:00<Pitxyoki>But as I understand it, it will manage only the interfaces that are not listed at the interfaces file.
20:00<hachi>sadly that file has no section, and no information on how to select different interfaces
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20:00<hachi>it's sorta doing that, it sees the link status of the physical card
20:01<hachi>however, when the link status changes... it turns up and down a completely different interface
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20:01<Pitxyoki>That's weird.
20:02<magyar>hi guys, is there other packages in debian similar to "usbmount" ?
20:02-!-dieg [] has joined #debian
20:02<Pitxyoki>What does usbmount do?
20:02<Pitxyoki>And where did you use that?
20:02<Pitxyoki>..or see.
20:02-!-bja_ is now known as bja
20:03<dpkg>If you're running one of the desktop environments in Debian, then ask me about <gnome-volume-manager>, <kde automount>, or <thunar-volman>. If you want something for the command line, then ask me about <halevt>, <ivman>, or <usb mount>. For a completely different approach to automounting, ask me about <autofs>.
20:03-!-dieg [] has quit []
20:04<dpkg>i guess gnome-volume-manager is a package for gnome users that will automount removable volumes. aptitude install gnome-volume-manager pmount ; adduser username plugdev ; you will have to log out and back in before it works
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20:05<Pitxyoki>!usb mount
20:05<dpkg>it has been said that usb mount is script to automatically mount/umount USB drives as they are inserted/removed:, or apt-get install usbmount, or does not support <vfat> filesystems by default. Read /usr/share/doc/usbmount/README for the reason and amend /etc/usbmount/usbmount.conf to enable. Also ask about <pmount>.
20:06<dpkg>somebody said pmount was "policy mount", an application to make it easier to (un)mount removable media such as USB flash memory sticks. e.g. as normal user, "pmount sda1" mounts it at /media/sda1. no superuser. no need to create a mount point. nb you'll need to be in the plugdev group (but you'll know that from /usr/share/doc/pmount).
20:06<hachi>is packages down?
20:07<Pitxyoki>I can access it.
20:07<hachi>it took 90 seconds to load a page for me
20:08<hachi>so it's up for me too
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20:14<interbird>i just realized i'm standing on the shoulders of giants; i'm trying to keep my balance; i will
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20:21<interbird>Hi jscinoz
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20:23<jscinoz>Is it possible to use deboostrap to set up an environment for a different architecture than the host? I have an amd64 box running sid, and a number of beagleboards (armel) i can get the basic tuff set up by using deboostrap --foreign --arch armel sid sid-armel, but i am not sure how you are supposed to do the second stage stuff
20:23<jscinoz>because you cant chroot into an environment of a different arch
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20:25<jscinoz>i was thinking i might have to do something involving qemu-armeb to chroot but i am not sure how and fcant find any information on how to do it
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20:25<interbird>second stage should be from within the bootstrapped systen no ?
20:26<jscinoz>interbird: i think it is started fromo utside the chroot with deboostrap --second-stage --second-stage-target sid-armel, but it fails to chroot as it cant execute the shell in the environment as its an armel binary
20:26<jscinoz>so i need to make it use qemu-armeb somehow to run it
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20:28<interbird>chroot is for the same architecture; armel is a different arch; so you have to fiddle with qemu i guess; dunno too much about arm...
20:29<jscinoz>yeah i know that, the issue is i cant figure out how to make chroot work with qemu-armeb >_<
20:30<interbird>dunno why that is needed; is qemu no a kind of chroot itself ?
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20:30<jscinoz>qemu-(arch) is basically a user mode thing that let you run a single binary for the arch in question on the host
20:31<jscinoz>ie 'qemu-armeb sid-armel/bin/bash' should theoretically work, but it doesnt :(
20:31<interbird>and so it jails it, no ?
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20:31<jscinoz>i think so
20:32<interbird>you understand qemu for arm emulates a completely different cpu than the one on the host system yes?
20:34<bja>Is there a way to stop zsh from prompting "zsh: sure you want to delete all the files in ..."
20:34<jscinoz>i under stand that, but basically when i try to use qemu to execute a single bianry for another arch it fails with just "Error loading $binary"
20:34<interbird>so, this bin/bash thingie is compiled for arm yes? and not for x86
20:34<jscinoz>and qemu-armeb *should* be able to execute it but it isnt wroking :(
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20:36<locklace>bja: man zshoptions (RM_STAR_SILENT)
20:36<interbird>sounds like you know what you are doing; i have no experience with qemu on arm (yet); cannot help you; succ7
20:38<jscinoz>hmm ok thanks anyway interbird :)
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20:39<jscinoz>not a problem interbird i'll figure i out :)
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20:41<interbird>you will
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20:43<interbird>kinda funny, i was playing with S60 but arm and stuff like open-moko and android seem to take pace...
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20:44<atg>sup guys
20:45<atg>I was sort of looking for the newbies irc, but couldn't find it
20:45<atg>anyone can direct me, please/
20:46<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
20:46<interbird>#ubuntu ?
20:47<interbird>beware, xemacs just woke up...
20:47<atg>nah, I'm looking to contribute
20:47<xemacs4321>danger DANGER
20:48<atg>I'm not in on the inside joke...
20:48-!-iron [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:48<interbird>then newbies is your business... :-)
20:49<interbird>try #ubuntu; lots of virgins
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20:51<CyborgPirateNinja>Ok, I had XDM and ion3 (A window-manager) installed, Then I installed Gnome and selected that XDM was my defualt display-manager, Now I Wanna get back into ion3, So how do I do that?
20:51<CyborgPirateNinja>I don't know where to go, I've googled and couldn't really find anything.
20:51-!-atg [] has left #debian []
20:51<CyborgPirateNinja>(Yeah, That does say something about my google-abilities)
20:52<CyborgPirateNinja>sney, Ahah!...
20:53<interbird>gonna hit the sack. nobody there, shit; i have to get a life... nite all
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20:54<CyborgPirateNinja>sney, Would be lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 22 2009-06-04 01:41 x-session-manager -> /usr/bin/gnome-session lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 38 2009-06-04 01:41 x-session-manager.1.gz -> /usr/share/man/man1/gnome-session.1.gz right?
20:55<sney>yeah that means it's currently linking to gnome as the session manager, just use the update-alternatives binary it's faster
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20:59<bja>locklace: Is there a way to stop zsh from prompting "zsh: sure you want to delete all the files in ..."
20:59<sney>-f ?
20:59<locklace>bja: i already answered you
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21:00<bja>locklace: sorry scrolling back
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21:08<bja>locklace: Your answer went just before a names command after what I believe was an irssi reconnection :(
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21:39<ed_debian>For future reference for all of you don't ever try to boot fedora and debian sharing 1 /home.. Fedore feels it appropriate to alter your file permissions (a lot of fun!)
21:40<huwaw69>how can i install debian lenny in a laptop with no cdrom and can't boot in usb?
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21:40<ed_debian>check it out I think it's in the repos
21:41<huwaw69>it can't boot in usb
21:43<chealer>huwaw69: did you read the installation guide?
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21:47<dpkg>debian.exe is a debian-installer loader for win32. It installs Debian as default; it installs grub for NT on C drive, then downloads the netboot kernel/initrd.gz from, and creates entries in boot.ini to load grub/menu.lst. Available at Also ask me about <ig> <setup.exe> or see
21:47<enouf>for windows users
21:55<sney>haha, the goodbye-microsoft video player doesn't recognize my (debian default) iceweasel browser as being firefox
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22:18<dpkg>it has been said that setup.exe is a way of installing Debian Lenny from windows. It is contained on <CD1>, just insert the CD and let it autorun. You can also use it from a usb install. See for more details or see
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22:30<PeterFA>What's the Debian way to create a site with Apache?
22:30<PeterFA>I'm using mod_vhost_alias
22:31<abrotman>PeterFA: you put the config stuff in /etc/apache2/sites-available/ and then use a2ensite
22:31<PeterFA>abrotman, no easy utility to make the thing?
22:31<abrotman>that is easy!
22:32<PeterFA>abrotman, ok ok, so it is.
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22:34<PeterFA>I thought you could just create a site by creating a directory and then the site exists by the name of that directory with mod_vhost_alias
22:34<rsmith>what's the latest in desktop search? (for lenny) I've been out of the loop for a while, so is there anything like tracker search tool? (or is tracker the way to go?)
22:35<abrotman>PeterFA: have you checked the docs? maybe you can
22:35<abrotman>rsmith: gnome?
22:35<rsmith>yes, gnome
22:36<abrotman>beagle ?
22:36<abrotman>gnome-do ?
22:36<rsmith>ok, so I guess nothing's changed
22:36<PeterFA>abrotman, I'm confused with the Debian way of doing things and how I work with mod_vhost_alias.
22:36*abrotman just uses a2ensite
22:37<rsmith>abrotman: thanks, never heard of gnome-do
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22:38<abrotman>rsmith: it's not really for searching per se .. but you might find it useful in a search kind of waty
22:38<abrotman>yeah .. that makes no sense
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22:39*abrotman blames Dick Yuengling
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22:46<argonel>parted doesn't want to resize a partition due to its lack of support for the various file system options.. if i delete the partition, is there some way to ensure it starts at the same place so that it'll pick up the filesystem again?
22:47-!-mode/#debian [+l 398] by debhelper
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23:05<fsateler>is bluez 4.x really usable in debian?
23:05<fsateler>I had to revert to 3.x to use my bt mouse
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23:54<jvasile> I adjusted ssh on one of my boxes to listen on a non-standard port. Is there any way to configure ssh on the client side so it knows that connections to certain remote hosts should default to something other than 22? Thanks.
23:55<borman>ssh -p <port>
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23:57<jvasile>borman: I know how to do it for one connection. I want to do it for all connections so I don't have to keep typing it and for programs that use ssh but don't let you specify a port.
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---Logclosed Sat Jun 06 00:00:05 2009