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#debian IRC Logs for 2009-06-08

---Logopened Mon Jun 08 00:00:03 2009
---Daychanged Mon Jun 08 2009
00:00<ml|>Supaplex: hah
00:00<ml|>looks like alsa is immune
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00:04<edbian>I just got a new system (very old but new to me) And I had to replace the harddrive. When I tried to boot a debian CD with the old drive in I get "error at logical block 121, 122, 123, etc etc" But when I put in the new drive the bios gets to "detecting Master HDD" And it just sits there. If I boot the system with no harddrive (but a debian CD) it begins to boot and if I throw the power back into my harddrive I can install to the HDD but
00:04<edbian>I still can't boot from it later! Any ideas?
00:06<eeeuser>sounds like your HDD/HDD controller is dead. Try another drive?
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00:08<r3tt3q>hola a todos
00:08<r3tt3q>tengo un problema con debian
00:08<r3tt3q>debian zqueeze
00:09<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
00:09<edbian>Is it possible to update the bios on a motherboard? My HDD works (I was using it in another machine before i put it in this one)
00:09<r3tt3q>alguien me podria ayudar
00:09<ml|>edbian: it should be possible
00:10<Supaplex>edbian: who makes the motherboard? what's their update procedure?
00:11<edbian>Ummm... I don't remember the name of the bios. I would recognize it if I saw it though. I am pretty sure these bios have been unchanged since their inception date (1998).
00:12<Supaplex>hwinfo might shed some clues.
00:12<Supaplex>I think dell allows linux to update the bios on some server models. otherwise, check the manual of the vendor on how they suggest updating the bios. you may need a dos boot disk etc.
00:13<r3tt3q>If the card mother belongs to the same model to the new one you deberia to work but tendras problems
00:13<r3tt3q>I do not speak Englishman excuses
00:14<edbian>r3tt3q: I'm sorry but that doesn't seem to make any sense. Will updating the bios make it possible to boot with a newer harddrive?
00:14<edbian>r3tt3q: That is ok. I am impressed that you can speak that much at all! I can only speak one language.
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00:15<Supaplex>edbian: rarely, but try it and see
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00:15<r3tt3q>To ok, I am of venezuela and use debian
00:16<edbian>I cannot work on the system right now. Does anybody have any other suggestions that I can try if the bios update does not work? I have never seen a motherboard that does not like a harddrive before.
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00:17<eeeuser>edbian: Crazy suggestions herein: (1) Flash bios (2) flash HDD controller (3) upgrade power supply (4) switch motherboard
00:17<ml|>edbian: might have an issue with motherboard
00:18<edbian>IT will boot the harddrive that was originally in the system but that HDD has errors on it and only boots 1 out of 10 times. Is there a good way to detect / fix those errors?
00:18<eeeuser>also inspect motherboard capacitors to see if the caps are bloating/leaking. Can happen after a long time
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00:19<r3tt3q>The HDD does not have to see anything with the bios, which it he has, to see is the card mother who does not recognize you the controllers that your installed HHD has
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00:19<edbian>eeeuser: I already checked them. They are all fin
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00:21<edbian>r3tt3q: Are you saying that the harddrive and the bios don't work together. The HDD and the controllers do? Where are these controllers?
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00:21<eeeuser>edbian: the HDD has a controller chip that communicates over the SATA/IDE controller with the motherboard. Sometimes manufacturers program these incorrectly. However if you are having troubles booting a second different HDD then I think you can probably discount this
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00:23<edbian>eeeuser: Yes I have used this HDD to boot before (on a different system). Assuming all of the hardware if physically working correctly then what else might be to blame? Will an old motherboard for any reason, not be able to detect / use a newer HDD ??
00:24<eeeuser>How old is this mobo?
00:25<eeeuser>There used to be (long time ago) problems with different IDE speeds.
00:25<edbian>circa 1998
00:25<edbian>harddrive is from 2003 ish
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00:26<eeeuser>Well, disable cable select of course, then read
00:26<r3tt3q>What you spend is that the HHD has the configuration of a card mother and when you connect it to another card this mother does not recognize it as that it she does not have the controllers of the new card
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00:27<eeeuser>But this is all wild guessing. If you can get more information on what is going wrong, this would probably help.
00:27<r3tt3q>como le cambio el passw al root en debian?
00:28<r3tt3q>Since I change the passw to the root in GNU/Linux debian?
00:28<edbian>r3tt3q: If I am understanding you correctly I believe that "card mother" is motherboard. If this is correct you should use the word motherboard. English speakers will understand better.
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00:29<edbian>r3tt3q: I understand everything until the end of what you said "She does not have the controllers of the new card." Do you mean "...of the new harddrive" ?? There is no "new card" Thank you for trying BTW :)
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00:30<edbian>That is enough for me tonight. Thank you guys!
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00:31<r3tt3q>To ok if the plate mother we are called it a card mother
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00:31<edbian>r3tt3q: ?? Sorry I don't understand.
00:31<ml|>r3tt3q: login as root and passwd
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00:33<r3tt3q>What happens(passes) with HHD is that your new plate mother does not recognize as the HHD mother has a configuration of another plate
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01:26<computerwhiz1>any one here willing to help me with some gnome issues
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01:26<ml|>dpkg: ask
01:26<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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01:29<computerwhiz1>I am having a problem installing debian with a desktop environment. When I run the install I select standard system and desktop environment as the extra stuff to install. However when the install is done and I reboot I am not taken to gnome I am given the CLI. When I type startx nothing happens. What should I do to fix this?
01:31<ml|>i don't use a de, try restarting gdm /etc/init.d/gdm restart as root
01:34<June>first, check whether X environment package is installed,,,
01:35<ml|>it should be if he installed de meta package
01:36<computerwhiz1>how do I check for the x package? (I am new to this)
01:37<June>I mean, I recommend checking step by step from first..
01:37<wooj>hm, odd. I was going to say '
01:37<ml|>aptitude show xserver-xorg-core
01:37<wooj>'sudo apt-get install xorg' but I'm in X on lxde and don't have xorg installed
01:37<wooj>ahh. xserver-xorg-core. ok :)
01:38<computerwhiz1>I have tried and gdm is not in /etc/init.d
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01:38<ml|>also aptitude show xorg
01:38<ml|>and aptitude show gdm
01:39<ml|>see if those are installed
01:39<computerwhiz1>ok hold on. I am reinstalling right now to make sure that is not the problem
01:39<ml|>oh and aptitude show gnome-core
01:40<ml|>ok, read what the installer is telling you and take your time
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01:41<computerwhiz1>for future reference: when I am in a basic install of debian (just standard system) and I am in a CLI what packages do I need to get to set up a full version of gnome with all the bells and whistles
01:41<simonrvn><really OT> anyone tried aptitude why aptitude for kicks? </really OT>
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01:42<ml|>simonrvn: never used that command
01:42<simonrvn>shows rdeps if i'm reading the output correctly
01:43<simonrvn>i aptitude-doc-en Suggests aptitude
01:43<ml|>yes looks like that is what it does
01:44<ml|>computerwhiz1: this should do for gnome setup...
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01:46<ml|>aptitude install xserver-xorg-core xserver-xorg xorg gdm gnome-core or for full gnome gnome
01:47<ml|>gnome-core - The GNOME Desktop Environment -- essential
01:47<ml|>gnome - The GNOME Desktop Environment, with extra
01:48<computerwhiz1>and for kde I would change gdm to kdm and gnome to kde?
01:48<ml|>or kde-core
01:48<computerwhiz1>ok cool.
01:49<ml|>computerwhiz1: you can apt-cache search for anything else you might want or need
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01:50<MyG>plus --names-only will better for search
01:51<ml|>or aptitude search but apt-cache usually returns for results, but aptitude will tell you if you have what you are look for is installed
01:51<ml|>*more results
01:51<computerwhiz1>now one other thing I have been using aptitude because when I use apt-get it always says it can't find archives and size mismatch. What is that all about?
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01:52<ml|>computerwhiz1: use one or the other but not both
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01:52<computerwhiz1>which one is better?
01:52<ml|>or you will run into problem eventually
01:52<ml|>!why aptitude
01:52<dpkg>aptitude has more advanced conflict/dependency resolution than other tools, it has far more advanced searching available, and will automatically uninstall unneeded dependencies, read /usr/share/doc/aptitude/README for more info. Aptitude can also remove or purge one package at the same time as installing others all from the command line, making it much easier to recover from broken dependencies.
01:53<ml|>you can also do all this whithin aptitude
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01:56<computerwhiz1>ok on the new install I told it to install the desktop environment. I rebooted and I was in CLI. So I ran all the aptitude show commands that you gave me they are all installed. /etc/init.d/gdm is not there. And startx produces an error about /usr/bin/X11/X not existing
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01:58<June>I like dselect.. : )
01:58<ml|>computerwhiz1: can't help since i don't use a de wait for someone else that knows about that
01:58<ml|>June: :P
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02:00<June>:) both are good! just i like dsel
02:00<computerwhiz1>I will try installing manually and see if that clears things up
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02:08<computerwhiz1>well manual install didn't get it.
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02:08<ml|>what install iso are you using
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02:10<computerwhiz1>something is really weird here
02:11<ml|>check the cd for errors maybe?
02:11<computerwhiz1>have you ever heard of something like it?
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02:12<ml|>maybe a problem with downloaded iso or burned cd
02:12<ml|>did you check the md5 of iso?
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02:13<computerwhiz1>when it got done it did produce this though: E: Failed to fetch Size mismatch
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02:13<computerwhiz1>I don't know anything about md5
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02:15<ml|>Message Digest [algorithm] 5
02:15<computerwhiz1>how do I check that
02:15<jm_>it's explained on the debian-cd web page
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02:17<jm_>How do I verify ....
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02:17<jm_>(can, not do)
02:19<computerwhiz1>ok I am redownloading the ISO. By the way this is in a virtual machine if that changes anything.
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02:21<ml|>not sure but netinst iso and a vm don't mix i think, maybe try this time with a regular iso
02:21<jm_>what is the problem - I joined too late
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02:22<ml|>jm_: 01:29:51 < computerwhiz1> I am having a problem installing debian with a desktop environment. When I run the install I select standard system and desktop environment as the extra stuff to install. However when the install is done and I reboot I am not taken to gnome I am given the CLI. When I type startx nothing happens. What should I do to fix this?
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02:23<ml|>jm_: 01:56:25 < computerwhiz1> ok on the new install I told it to install the desktop environment. I rebooted and I was in CLI. So I ran all the aptitude show commands that you gave me they are all installed. /etc/init.d/gdm is not there. And startx produces an error about /usr/bin/X11/X not existing
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02:23<computerwhiz1>ml|: where do you get a regular ISO?
02:24<jm_>computerwhiz1: are you sure it was able to download anything from the net?
02:24<jm_>your error about perl says not
02:25<ml|>dpkg: tell computerwhiz1 about install lenny
02:25<jm_>try doing apt-get update, see if this works
02:25<computerwhiz1>well that is the thing/ How do I make sure that it is getting things off of the net
02:25<computerwhiz1>I think something is going wrong with the net install and I am not knowing about it
02:26<jm_>can you boot it so we can debug it live?
02:26<ml|>is your vm setup right to access the net
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02:26<computerwhiz1>yes I am in now
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02:26<jm_>ok, do apt-get update
02:26<jm_>or aptitude if you're using that
02:27<ml|>aptitude :)
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02:27<computerwhiz1>everything looks to be ok
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02:28<ml|>aptitude update works?
02:28<computerwhiz1>well there are no errors that I can see.
02:28<computerwhiz1>nothing with E:...
02:29<jm_>ok so try installing gnome or whatever you want
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02:32<computerwhiz1>ok when i ran "aptitude install gdm" (gnome would take too long) I got the perl error
02:34<computerwhiz1>if I don't do the net install iso do I have to download all of these:
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02:35<jm_>no you should fix what you have - how big is the file a'aptitude download perl' downloads?
02:35<jm_>be back in 10-15 minutes
02:36<ml|>no just the first cd or dvd as many as you like, you can try download the perl package and install manually
02:36<computerwhiz1>jm_: what?
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02:36<computerwhiz1>what about the perl i am confused. Run "aptitude install perl"?
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02:38<ml|>computerwhiz1: try what jm_ suggested
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02:38<computerwhiz1>ml|: I don't understand what he suggested: "no you should fix what you have - how big is the file a'aptitude download perl' downloads?"
02:39<computerwhiz1>ok so I ran "aptitude install perl" adn it worked
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02:40<ml|>try reinstalling what i suggested before for gnome or kde or restart see if that fixes it
02:40<computerwhiz1>now aptitude install gdm rolls out: E: Failed to fetch Size Mismatch
02:41<computerwhiz1>ml|: I already ran: aptitude install xserver-xorg-core xserver-xorg xorg gdm gnome and it didn't work
02:42<computerwhiz1>from what I can tell gnome is installed correctly, xserver is missing components and, gdm is missing
02:43<ml|>only thing i can think of, do you have plenty of room in your vm? just a guess doubt that is the problem tho
02:44<computerwhiz1>well I have 5 GB
02:44<ml|>eah that's plenty
02:45<computerwhiz1>I am purging all of those now and I will reinstall them
02:45<computerwhiz1>see if that works
02:45<ml|>worth a try
02:48<computerwhiz1>ok so if I have to resort to a non net install I only need the first cd ISO?
02:49<ml|>yes or maybe wait for jm_ he might be able to help you i'm out of ideas
02:49<computerwhiz1>ok well reinstalling this looks like it is making progress
02:50<computerwhiz1>purging and then installing
02:50<computerwhiz1>of all the xserver stuff, gdm, and gnome
02:51<jm_>computerwhiz1: 'aptitude download perl
02:51<computerwhiz1>I ran aptitude install perl and that got rid of the perl error, but it just gave me a new one
02:51<ml|>jm_: read up
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02:54<computerwhiz1>well it sure is installing the whole thing. I am seeing evolution etc. lets just see if it works
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02:56<computerwhiz1>I am seeing all kinds of things install that I haven't seen before so maybe this will wokr
02:57<computerwhiz1>E: Failed to fetch Size Mismatch
02:57<computerwhiz1>I will reboot anyway
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02:58<computerwhiz1>OMG: Thanks guys for the help. I was about to pull my hair out. It worked I am now in gnome.
02:59<computerwhiz1>the trick is to not let debian install gnome
02:59<ootput>or kde
02:59<computerwhiz1>install it yourself with aptitude install xserver-xorg-core xserver-xorg xorg gdm gnome
02:59<jm_>no that's not the trick, there is something wrong if that happens
02:59<computerwhiz1>well then there is something wrong with the ISO
03:00<computerwhiz1>or net install isn't working correctly
03:00<ml|>it should work fine, but atleast you are up and running
03:00<jm_>it is
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03:00<computerwhiz1>ok thanks i have to go now
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03:02<ml|>netinst.iso worked fine here a long time ago when installing gnome etc
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03:08<Supaplex>mini.iso ftw
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03:39<InkBottle>There is a new paradigm in unix world, it is the w* Ctrl-c/Ctrl-v (to copy & past). Say you use minimal X-debian; then you copy in Xchat (that works better with C-c/C-v). How will you paste in rxvt?
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03:42<kenyon>InkBottle: try shift-insert
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03:49<Supaplex>or middle click
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03:59<InkBottle>kenyon: with SwfDec plugin, it is like it doesn't work at all with the "mouse select/middle button past" of X. Instead it works +only+ with Ctrl{V/C}. And what you said doesn't work in that case.
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04:01<Supaplex>the x clipboard is a funny thing. it doesn't always play nice
04:01<InkBottle>Supaplex: kenyon: SwfDec doesn't fill the "X selection stuff"
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04:02<jm_>it's not the only one
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04:03<InkBottle>If we use a stuff like kde, then kde cares for synchronizing those different things... but I don't use kde
04:03<ml|>middle click here but with Supaplex
04:03<jm_>there are apps that can synchronize it without KDE
04:04<InkBottle>jm_: which one?
04:04<jm_>InkBottle: autocutsel for example
04:04<InkBottle>i try
04:06<Supaplex>middle click middle click middle click yay. works fine here.
04:06<Supaplex>02:07 < Supaplex> middle click middle click middle click yay. works fine here.
04:07<Supaplex>I'm using openbox btw
04:07<weasel>do I have to include the yay?
04:07<Supaplex>not if your nick is weasel. ;)
04:08<weasel>it is. man, it must be my lucky day today
04:09<ml|>xmonad here and work with openbox to whe i used it
04:09<kenyon>!info parcellite
04:10<kenyon>that's what I use to sync the clipboard and selection, also using xmonad
04:10<dpkg>parcellite: (A lightweight GTK+ clipboard manager), section misc, is optional. Version: 0.9-1 (sid), Packaged size: 35 kB, Installed size: 120 kB
04:10<InkBottle>Supaplex: But did you select in Firefox->go to a youtube video->properties of swfdec: here you have to select
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04:11<nas>how to undo an apt-get upgrade?
04:11<InkBottle>jm_: works fine with what you said :)
04:11<nas>is it apt-get dselect-upgrade?
04:11<ml|>kenyon: works better?
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04:12<kenyon>ml|: sorry, better than what?
04:12<kenyon>ml|: it works like glipper and klipper
04:12<ml|>middle click
04:12<jm_>InkBottle: sure
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04:12<kenyon>ml|: oh, it works with middle click
04:13<ml|>kenyon: never used those
04:13<kenyon>ml|: oh, pretty handy. they save selection history too.
04:13<kenyon>just sits in your system tray
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04:14<jm_>nas: you can't undo it easily
04:14<ml|>kenyon: no system tray here
04:14<kenyon>ml|: check out trayer if you want one
04:14<kenyon>it sits next to my xmobar
04:15<Supaplex>I have a keyboard tray. my system is too big for a tray, so it's on the desk atop the UPS.
04:15<ml|>you have to a tray?
04:15<kenyon>maybe not, not sure
04:16<ml|>oh will try it out thanks
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04:16<kenyon>checked parecllite's man page, it has a --no-icon option: Do not use status icon
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04:18<kenyon>well I'm out, have a final exam for compilers in the morning
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04:20<ml|>kenyon: ok thanks
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04:21<buffoon_work_>Hi! which encryption algorithm do you suggest for HTTPS?
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04:23<jm_>buffoon_work_: why are you asking this?
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04:24<buffoon_work_>jm_, because there are so many and I don't know which one is more secure than the other one... I'm creating a SSL cert for a webserver
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04:25<jm_>buffoon_work_: right, self signed?
04:26<rayarn>256bit is enough. 512bit if you`re paranoid
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04:27<petemc>self signed certs are a pain in the ass these days
04:27<buffoon_work_>jm_, no, It'll be signed by a CA. It's for a web shop so I want to get sure it's secure..
04:27<petemc>less hassle just to buy one from a trusted CA
04:28<petemc>buffoon_work_: you're generating a csr? dont they insist on 1024 bit?
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04:28<jm_>buffoon_work_: and what are they offering then?
04:30<buffoon_work_>jm_, is that important related to my question? I just wanted to have a suggestion like "use des3 which is not cracked" or something like that...
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04:32<jm_>buffoon_work_: not many have been cracked in the true sense of the word really
04:32<buffoon_work_>petemc, yes, i'm generating a csr
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04:32<buffoon_work_>so I'm fine with des3?
04:33<jm_>people will just suggest you to use max. length
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04:33<buffoon_work_>OK, thx
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04:36<shiznatix>I am trying to unmount a USB HD but I keep getting "device is busy". How do I kill anything that is using this HD so I can unmount it safely
04:37<rayarn>have you looked at dmesg ?
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04:38<locklace>shiznatix: fuser -km /your/mount/point
04:39<shiznatix>ok, what does that do?
04:39<locklace>man fuser
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04:52<InkBottle>with parcellite they show screenshots. I don't have any non-cli thing with it. What have I missed?
04:54<jm_>who are they?
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04:58<InkBottle>it seems it can be launched from panel->menu; then it has a graphical part and it is in the tray
04:59<InkBottle>or it can be launched at command line, and then it is not in the tray and you don't hence have a graphical part
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05:40<nexraf>/whois nexraf
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05:45<ootput>yikes, poor english @
05:46<RichiH>ootput: file a wishlist bug with a patch
05:46<ootput>I'm in the process of doing so
05:46<ootput>rest assured
05:47<RichiH>i am sure he appreciates it
05:47<RichiH>people usually do
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06:14<mihkel>Hi. Question about secure apt. apt-cache show <package> shows MD5sum, SHA1 and SHA256 hashes for that package
06:14<mihkel>which one is used? All three?
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06:33<ml|>mybashburn is good app, wording is ok, but i guess it could better ;)
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06:41<insmod>I can't for the life of me get audio in streaming through vlc to work -- any one can help?
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06:47<bremner>can someone send me the factoid about troubleshooting apt-key (untrusted package etc...)?
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06:53<ml|>bremner: it seems there isn't one, atleast not with the name apt-key
06:55<bremner>err, forgive me if I don't highlight that nick, but yeah, that is why I was asking in case someone remembers the name
06:56<ootput>secure-apt, maybe?
06:56<ootput>guess not
06:57<ootput>meh, 'secure apt' seems the closest
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06:59<ml|>there is an entry for apt-key auto, but i don't think that's what you want
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07:00<ml|>it may have being removed
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07:02<jm_>do you have the key? apt-key --list, if you do, apt-get update once or twice shall fix it
07:02<bremner>hmm. So I apt-key added a key for my own repo, aptitude update (which didn't complain), but installing a package still complains
07:02<jm_>just list, not --list
07:03<bremner>yup, the key shows up in apt-key list
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07:05<ml|>great they finally fixed librtorrent
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07:07<ml|>actually libtorrent11
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07:08<ootput>that's in unstable, isn't it?
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07:08<ml|>yes, use that becuase of the features :)
07:09<ml|>but need to rewrite rc file for them to work
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07:10<ootput>the wiki isn't the most up-to-date
07:10<ml|>it seems the author keeps changing the options, but it's for the better ;)
07:10<ootput>even with .8.4 features
07:11<ml|>yeah, had to search a bit to get things going
07:11<ootput>i've yet to figure out how to rm .torrent* from watch_directory after completed download
07:12<ml|>are you using unstable version too?
07:12<ootput>other than that, i've upgraded to all the other system.method.set_key options
07:12<ootput>ml|: yep. squeeze, with a few unstable packages
07:12<ootput>xorg, radeonhd and rtorrent
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07:13<ml|>hehe like me :) but just rtorrent here
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07:13<ml|>if you want i got that figuered out let me pastebinit :)
07:13<ootput>I was compiling from source (for rtorrent) a while back, but I was too lazy to maintain it
07:14<ootput>ml|: what I have so far
07:15<ootput>it works, save for that issue I mentioned earlier
07:15<ml|>ootput: take a look
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07:18<ootput>yours doesn't implement it :)
07:18<ootput>oh wait
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07:19<ml|>yes found it?
07:19<ootput>system.method.set = group.seeding.ratio.command, d.close=, d.erase= ?
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07:20<ml|>ootput: look at line 31
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07:21<ootput>ootput: hehe, look at the reverse
07:21<ootput>ie 13
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07:23<ml|>ootput: lol ??
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08:18<sci>hello everybody, how is it going ?
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08:18<sci>so far
08:18<sci>no so good ?
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08:20<bremner>is there a gui equivalent of apt-file?
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08:21<jm_>bremner: is p.d.o "gui" enough?
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08:22<bremner>jm_: well, it isn't available off line, but I guess installing packages is tricky then too
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08:25<bremner>yeah, I guess that will do. I always use apt-file, so I never looked at the equivalent on p.d.o before.
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08:41<AzaTht>I havn't found out yet how to ge2t my tilde back :(
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08:41<stuNNed>how do i guarantee i have full kde support in gnome? the fonts in the menu entries of apps like look horrid
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08:42<stuNNed>know i uninstalled something but don't know what, probly with 'apt-get autoremove'
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09:04<johnfg>hi folks
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09:05<johnfg>I noticed this message from dmesg: Driver 'sd' needs updating - please use bus_type methods, and get the same for 'sr'. Is there a way I can or should update this?
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09:26<johnfg>I noticed this message from dmesg: Driver 'sd' needs updating - please use bus_type methods, and get the same for 'sr'. Is there a way I can or should update this?
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09:37<ootput>johnfg: you can safely ignore those messages
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09:39<johnfg>ootput, OK, as I mentioned, they weren't causing any known problems, but I don't like to see that something's wrong, and not fix it.
09:40<johnfg>ootput, lookin' at it now, thanks!
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09:44<johnfg>ootput, Not real enlightening, but I agree that the concensus there was to ignore the message.
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09:44<ootput>johnfg: my first thoughts exactly :)
09:45<ootput>I was given the same link when I asked a while ago
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09:56<Tuplad>hey! I've downloaded a netinst image from debian's site, and I would like to install it through an usb stick. but the manual says I need to work with linux to setup the stick... can I also use a mac or vista?
09:57<tino> hi allI would know how to create a debian package from a java bytecode
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10:00<Tuplad>hey! I've downloaded a netinst image from debian's site, and I would like to install it through an usb stick. but the manual says I need to work with linux to setup the stick... can I also use a mac or vista?
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10:03<eeeuser>mac should be able to.
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10:16<m2rt>Hey, I have few questions about iptables, can you answer those?
10:17<m2rt>iptables -L INPUT --line-numbers - that shows the contents of INPUT with their line numbers...
10:17<m2rt>But I need the contents of PREROUTING
10:17<m2rt>So I could delete it.
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10:18<m2rt>When I replace PREROUTING with INPUT. Then it says "Table does not exist (do you need insmod?)"
10:18<Gathond>m2rt: 2 items there, 1. change INPUT to PREROUTING
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10:18<Gathond>2. select the 'nat' "-t nat" table instead of the default (filter)
10:18<avu>m2rt, there is more than one PREROUTING chain
10:19<avu>but, yes, you probably mean the one in the nat table
10:19<m2rt>yeah in the nat
10:19<m2rt>so it is: iptables -L -t nat --line-numbers
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10:19<avu>iptables -t nat -L PREROUTING
10:19<avu>or just -L
10:19<Gathond>that would work, although that will list 3 chains not just PREROUTING
10:20<m2rt>thanks! I will try, I need to delete 2 rules from the prerouting.
10:20<Gathond>the information will be printed non the less though
10:21<m2rt>So deleting from the nat prerouting would be how? iptables -D INPUT 11 worked for INPUT
10:22<m2rt>I ask cause I can not risk screwing it up.. 60 people behind that linux box router :P
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10:22<m2rt>And I didn't set it up...
10:22<Gathond>same procedure
10:22<Gathond>-t nat -D PREROUTING
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10:22<Gathond>but are you sure the setup is not based on some script loading the ruleset?
10:23<m2rt>no I am not sure, but in the INPUT I managed to delete a rule :P
10:23<Gathond>usually people do not configure the rules live (unless they use iptables-save and iptables-restore)
10:23<Gathond>m2rt: yes, it will delete the rule
10:24<Gathond>however that is only messing with the running iptables configuration, this will NOT change what is loaded at boottime
10:24<Gathond>unless something is set up to store the current ruleset on shutdown
10:24<m2rt>how can I change this? I know that iptables-save is running :P
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10:25<Gathond>that depends on how it was originally set up
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10:27<m2rt>Gathond! But if they are gone from iptables-save then it should be fine? right?
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10:30<Gathond>if iptables-save is run when shutting down and saves the rules then the changes should survive a proper shurdown and reboot
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10:32<m2rt>Lets hope on that :P can not reboot the machine atm, people are behind that... maybe in the night..
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10:33<m2rt>Gathond, would it be too much to ask how to forward port 7735 of the gateaway machine to ?
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10:34<m2rt>I am totally newb with iptables, tried to look up it on google. but my rule was not working. I have 25 minutes to do this. if I get this done, then start to lear a bit of iptables.
10:35<Gathond>well without any guarantees iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp --dport 7735 -j DNAT --to
10:36<Gathond>that assumes it is tcp traffic and that there are no prior rules in PREROUTING which matches the packet
10:36<m2rt>by packet you mean the port?
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10:36<Gathond>you may want to put a -i "name of your external interface" on there as well
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10:37<Gathond>m2rt: iptables match each incomming packet against the rules and the first match applies
10:37<Gathond>so that rule abobe only has an effect if no prior rule in PREROUTING matches
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10:37<Gathond>since -A appends this rule at the end of the chain
10:38<m2rt>I see that in here the previous person has assigned few ports with tcp
10:38<m2rt>in prerouting
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10:38*arw hello people
10:39<Gathond>that is to be expected
10:39<Gathond>my main point is a set of iptables is a whole, so I can't really give you something which I can guarantee works in your setup
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10:40<m2rt>yeah thanks! I will see it soon :P
10:40<raymonp_>firehol is your friend.
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10:42<m2rt>darn, didn't work... I try to just copy the thing the previous guy did for the other ports.
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10:46<m2rt>web traffic uses tcp right?
10:47<koollman>m2rt: yes
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10:48<fx>hi, i have small problem installing debian on an dell poweredge, cause it does not find the network adapter
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10:50<m2rt>I added the DNAT rule... do I have to add ACCEPT rule too?
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10:55<Gathond>m2rt: perhaps, if so it it probably in the mangle table and the FORWARD chain
10:55<gsimmons>fx: What version of Debian are you installing? What is your PowerEdge model?
10:55<Gathond>but chances are you don't have to do anything
10:55<fx>gsimmons: newes lenny, poweredge T610
10:56<m2rt>Gathond! Thing is that I can not access the server from outside. thus it seems that it is not working. I saw that other ports I know work, have nothing else mentioned about them. in other places. I added to the same place with same settings except the ip and port....
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10:57<raymonp_>fx, i had the same problem
10:57<raymonp_>had to download additional drivers
10:57<raymonp_>and get them on the box by usb
10:57<petemc>fx: you need to get firmware for your nic
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10:58<chack-1>how to install java on lenny ?
10:58<gsimmons>!tell chack-1 -about install java
10:59<m2rt>Gathond! Maybe I can show you the configuration somehow?
10:59<chack-1>i whant to install this sun-java6-plugin (<non-free>)
10:59<chack-1>but i dont find it
10:59<chack-1>with apt-cache search
10:59<raymonp_>enable non-free in your repository
11:00<raymonp_>then apt-get update.
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11:00<fx>petemc: i have on an usb stick but it is not found
11:00<petemc>worked for me
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11:01<fx>petemc: network installation of lenny and when he asks for the network card insert the usbstick and it works?
11:01<petemc>it did, yeah
11:01<petemc>i may have put the stick in prior to it asking
11:02<petemc>which can in some cases lead to the usb sticking being sda, and your perc controller as sdb
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11:02<petemc>until you reboot, and then the perc controller is sda again, and you cant boot
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11:02<jzz>Hello all!
11:03<fx>petemc: ok it was sdb1 in my caes, but shouldnt debian find it anyway?
11:03<petemc>it should
11:03<fx>can i mount it to someplace manually?
11:03<fx>does the usb stick need to be empty?
11:03<petemc>there are commands to test the usb discovery
11:03<petemc>the names of which escape me
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11:05<ranix>lspci, dmesg | tail?
11:05<petemc>no, its specific to the installer
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11:25<arw>some knows some tool for work with DSP in debian?
11:27<themill>arw: digital signal processing?
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11:28<arw>themill: yes
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11:29<arw>i had looking for.. but not development tools
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11:30<themill>arw: I generally use one (or more) of octave, numpy or perl+pdl for that sort of work. But I'm usually just doing some ad hoc data processing
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11:31<arw>themill: ao, and do you use some chip as freescale or texas instrumemts ..?
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11:31<ranix> some DSP tools suggested by some college professor or another
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11:32<arw>ranix: thank you.. i have worked with octave
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11:33<themill>arw: this is mostly offline. For instrument control, I'm generally using C# (or ... don't ask) with custom hardware that I talk to over an rs232 link
11:33<ranix>what do you do, themill?
11:33<arw>themill: are you used urjtag tool?
11:34<themill>arw: One day I'll collapse all the on-line and off-line stuff into the one thing and just use numpy for it... one day
11:34<arw>or openwince-jtag ?
11:34<arw>themill: ok i undestand
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11:35<arw>themill: so so you program the chip over rs232?
11:35<themill>arw: Unfortunately, I mainly still use the xilinx windows tools for hardware stuff. Haven't yet convince the boss that "let's try it with free software and risk bricking our development boards" is a worthwhile risk against using the programmer that we already own.
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11:35<arw>themill: that is true
11:35<themill>arw: no, programmed over jtag; data i/o and control over rs232
11:36<themill>ranix: I'm a physical chemist -- we do a reasonable amount of instrument design and development as well as chemistry.
11:36<arw>themill: ok , thak you very much
11:36<ranix>aah. Nifty
11:36<arw>ranix: thanks
11:37<ranix>arw: np, would give more info if I had it
11:37<eightyeight>how can i tell what flags a binary in a .deb package has been compiled with? is this information easily accessible?
11:37<ranix>I only have a passing familiarity with this stuff from working with cardiovascular ultrasound
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11:37<azeem>eightyeight: no
11:38<azeem>unless easily includes looking up the build logs on
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11:39<Lin>hi there, can someone help me with this SATA errors? ? (im not on ubuntu), my disks are running in raid1, and they are brand new, with a new motherboard. any help is welcome.
11:39<arw>ranix: thank you, i'ii be wating :)
11:39<eightyeight>azeem: i'm just trying to see if gnupg has camellia support compiled in
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11:40<Flakk>hi people i have just upgraded my laptop from etch to lenny. have a problem: when i try to get "properties" of a folder and the folder has many files the process crashes, i have a window" bug reporting tool". any help? it mat happen that the reason is that upgraded to lenny under gnome which is apparently not good. any comments?
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11:58<eightyeight>azeem: is exactly what i'm after. thx
11:58<simonrvn>Flakk: log out of gnome...
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12:00<Flakk>simonrvn: and then??
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12:01<simonrvn>do what you normally do? o_O
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12:03<Flakk>simonrvn: I would like that the application "Properties" work. i am used to it and it is quite useful. it was implicit in my demand for help
12:03<DarkWerdna>hi everyone
12:04<DarkWerdna>Does anyone know how to set global settings on Gnome
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12:08<Borland>why can't we msg people?
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12:09<Borland>and what you gonna do if I do it anyway? type some geek linux cmd at me?
12:09<locklace>!lart Borland
12:09*dpkg beats Borland senseless with a 50lb Unix manual
12:09<simonrvn>what a wonderful attitude
12:10<Gathond>Borland: put you on ignore
12:10<Flakk>locklace: any help with the "Properties" problem?
12:10<locklace>Flakk: i don't use gnome
12:10<simonrvn>properties of what?
12:10<Borland>that's cruel and unusual punishment
12:10<simonrvn>my crystal ball is missing
12:10<Flakk>locklace: wht do you use then?
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12:11<locklace>Flakk: fluxbox for now
12:11<Flakk>I see
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12:13<Flakk>Hi people, is anyone using gnome for lenny?
12:13<DarkWerdna>Flakk, I am
12:13<Borland>you must be old
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12:14<Flakk><DarkWerdna> I have a problem: when trying "properties" on a folder I have a message: application crash, bug buddy etc. any help?
12:15<patrikf>Flakk: so did you file a bug report?
12:15<DarkWerdna> I would file a bug, that is a big issue
12:15<Flakk>patrokf yes i did - however the nice bug application pops out every time
12:15<DarkWerdna>never seen it before
12:15<Flakk>sorry patrikf
12:15<patrikf>Flakk: what's the bug number?
12:16<Flakk>1 sec
12:16<Flakk>patrikf: what do you mean by the bug number?
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12:17<patrikf>Flakk: bug reports don't vanish, they get filed into a bug tracker and get a ID number assigned :) doesn't bug-buddy tell you that number? shame...
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12:19<Flakk>patrikf: no he did not.
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12:20<patrikf>Flakk: according to, removing libeel2-2.18 might help
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12:21<AzaTht>I wouyld need some more help with my AltGr problem; Following have I discovered: In most GTK apps, like firefox and xchat, no combo at all works; in Gnome-terminal and in gvim, all but tilde works, and in xterm, everything seems to work
12:21<AzaTht>I'm pretty much in the dark here what I should investigate further
12:21<AzaTht>I tried with removal of my .Xmodmap, but to no avail
12:22<patrikf>AzaTht: try right click -> input method -> x input method in a gtk input box
12:22<AzaTht>tried in both gnome and in xfce4, but no difference
12:22<cahoot>AzaTht: lenny?
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12:22<AzaTht>patrikf: tried in here (xchat), still no combo chartacters
12:22<cahoot>AzaTht: got any kb options set in xorg.conf?
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12:23<Flakk>patrikf: thanx, this seems to be exactly the bug i have come across.
12:23<AzaTht>cahoot: sort of
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12:25<AzaTht>I have still one inputdevice section there, but it is not activated in the serverlayout
12:25<AzaTht>cahoot: but, if it was xserver, then it shouldn't work in xterm, shouldn't it?
12:25<cahoot>AzaTht: why xfree86 and not xorg as xkbrules?
12:26<AzaTht>cahoot: last time I checked, there was only xfree86 available
12:26<cahoot>prova xorg
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12:27<cahoot>AzaTht: or study
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12:28<AzaTht>cahoot: still, it is not activated
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12:28<AzaTht>gah, now my keymapping is fully fnucked up
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12:30<cahoot>lshal | grep xkb
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12:31<Flakk>patrikf: do you suggest the solution which is on their page? they say upgrade nautilus to "sid"
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12:32<gunnar>hi I'm new
12:32<Flakk>install libeel 2-2.20 as you suggested, ?
12:32<fx>petemc: ok, what am i doing wrong? debian doesnt find the network card also i try to give it the firmwars, and i cant update the bios, what should also help because i need a running system for that
12:32<cahoot>AzaTht: same output here - works fine for svenska
12:32<AzaTht>cahoot: I have commented out the sections now, and gonna try restart X;
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12:32<AzaTht>cahoot: I see
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12:33<gazzu>hello every one! I just installed RoundCubeMail, it seems to work proprtly, but it wont send mail to outsider email adresses, locally works fine, do am I forget something?
12:34<simonrvn>install squirrelmail instead
12:34<SARC2>Does Debian 5.0 use the Linus scheduler?
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12:35<AzaTht>cahoot: still, no difference :(
12:35<AzaTht>cahoot: as it works in xterm, could it be possible it is a gtk problem?
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12:36<gazzu>simonrvn: whats the differens?
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12:36<simonrvn>gazzu: squirrelmail has a better security record
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12:37<cahoot>AzaTht: beyond me - all I can say is I don't have you problems in any app like ff or xchat @
12:37<AzaTht>cahoot: thanks anyway
12:37<Borland>why do you use linux
12:38<cahoot>bad habit
12:38<gazzu>ok, I tryed before, but didn't worked
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12:38<AzaTht>because they have a cool mascot
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12:38<gazzu>simonrvn: I'm not convinced, I tryed before but didn't worked
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12:39<Flakk>Borland: and what do you use?
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12:39<gazzu>simonrvn: I guess i'm so close to get roundcube to work
12:39<simonrvn>!doesn't work
12:39<dpkg>Look buddy, "doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions> and <errors>.
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12:42<gunnar>Hello, I installed debian on x86 platform(600 celeron) and nvidia video card. But my monitor with gnome ripple
12:42<AzaTht>tried also by running from an totally new user, same problem :(
12:42<gunnar>whats wrong?'
12:43<bremner>I'm trying to do a USB stick install on a thinkpad (lenny) BIOS sees the stick, but then says "Boot Error". Any ideas?
12:43<gunnar>how to change settings and what settings I have to change?
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12:44<gunnar>to get rid off monitor rippling
12:46<DarkWerdna>bremner how did you make the usb?
12:46<bremner>DarkWerdna, following the install notes, zcat boot.img.gz > /dev/sdb
12:47<bremner>just trying again with dd of uncompressed image
12:47<patrikf>Flakk: removing libeel2-2.18 should do actually
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12:48<patrikf>(and installing libeel2-2.20, no need to upgrade nautilus to sid)
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12:48<DarkWerdna>bremner, what I do is I use unetbootin to create my usb and it works
12:48<Flakk>patrikf: i am doing "apt-get upgrade nautilus" and to my surprise there is a lot of job actually; although I thought I upgraded already everything to lenny...
12:49<Flakk>now i just watch what is going on
12:49<bremner>DarkWerdna, ok, I'll try that. Thanks
12:49<DarkWerdna>no prob
12:50<Lothain>I'm trying to find the correct mount path for my external USB HD, but am not sure how to go about it. I'm scouring my "dmesg" return right now, to no avail: any advice?
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12:51<DarkWerdna>Lothain, what version od debian are you using
12:51<locklace>Flakk: make sure your /etc/apt/sources.list lines all point to lenny and then do an "aptitude update && aptitude full-upgrade"
12:51<Lothain>DarkWerdna: Lenny
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12:51<Flakk>locklace: I did it already when i upgraded to lenny (some days ago)
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12:52<DarkWerdna>your usb hd should be /dev/sdx1, where x=a-z
12:52<chrysn>hi, i'd need a quick decision on where to spend limited time -- i've lost (hard disk fail) the /var of a quite basic debian system. is restoring /var feasible or should i rather re-install?
12:52<locklace>chrysn: yes, it is feasible
12:52<DarkWerdna>assuming you have an ide drive, it should be /dev/sda1
12:52<DarkWerdna>the number after the letter is the partition number
12:53<chrysn>thanks, i'll try. do you happen to have hints on what i might forget (maybe from own experience)?
12:53<Lothain>I am not sure whether it is IDE or not; but my only sd* paths are sda and sda1-6; I have tried mounting all but "sda"
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12:54<DarkWerdna>not ide, I mean pata
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12:54<DarkWerdna>Lothain, what file system is the drive using?
12:55<Lothain>I believe NTFS but I am not sure how to verify
12:55<Flakk>locklace: my guess would be that I upgraded to lenny under gnome, that maybe created some problems, and gnome did not upgrade correctly. now it works as hell to upgrade nautilus ---
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12:56<locklace>chrysn: here's an example of how it can be done:
12:56<DarkWerdna>most likely is do you have ntfs-3g installed?
12:56<Lothain>No; is it in the official repositories?
12:56<bremner>DarkWerdna, bummer same results with unetbootin. Maybe I should try a different usb key
12:57<locklace>chrysn: the other approach is as given here:
12:57<DarkWerdna>DarkWerdna, do try that. It shouldn't give you problem
12:57<DarkWerdna>Lothain, yes it should be
12:57<Lothain>I'll see what I can do, thanks v. much
12:57*bremner goes shopping
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13:00<Grzegorz>I'm trying install debian testing (netinstal) on tosiba satelite a300 laptop, but after boot, before installer was initialize, I received message: PXE-E53 No boot filename received. What's wrong?
13:01<chrysn>locklace: thanks! my logs will provide me with the packages i have selected.
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13:09<valdyn>Grzegorz: your laptop is trying to boot from the network
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13:10<Flakk>patrikf, locklace: no even after upgrade of nautilus I have the same problem: trying to get "properties" of a folder returns: bug buddy, etc... so shoudl I try dpkg --remove libeel2-2.18?
13:11<patrikf>Flakk: you upgraded nautilus to what?
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13:12<Flakk>patrikf: to lenny. I said apt-get upgrade nautilus
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13:12<Flakk>i was surprised, since it worked as hell
13:13<Grzegorz>valdyn: What should I do to it was not booting from network
13:13<patrikf>Flakk: well, yes, remove libeel2-2.18 if it doesn't break anything. thats what I told you half an hour ago
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13:13<Flakk>patrikf: ok proceeding
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13:14<Flakk>wow: ignoring request to remov libeel2-2.18 which is not installed !!
13:14<locklace>Flakk: just do the "aptitude update && aptitude full-upgrade" again. i don't trust your system until that comes back clean
13:15<Flakk>locklace: under gnome, or quit the gnome session?
13:15<gazzu>simonrvn: I have found the problem with my roundcubemail is that I havent configurated any html server, what could be a good place to start?
13:15<locklace>Flakk: to be safe, exit x altogether and do it from a console vt
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13:16<Flakk>locklace: ok thanx, just waiting for comments from patrickf
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13:17<locklace>and use aptitude also when removing things, not dpkg
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13:17<simonrvn>gazzu: you mean http? look at apache or lighttpd
13:18<Flakk>locklace: btw how do I leave the x session?
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13:18<gazzu>simonrvn: sorry no, I mean SMTP
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13:20<Flakk>patrickf: so apparently libeel2-2.18 does not exist on my poor laptop. should I forget this advice ?
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13:22<enri>a question
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13:22<enri>how can I update debian 4 to version 5?
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13:22<patrikf>dpkg, etch->lenny
13:22<dpkg>Read the release notes, ask me about <lenny release notes>. Ensure your Etch installation is up to date (aptitude update; aptitude dist-upgrade). Edit your /etc/apt/sources.list and change all non-local mentions of "etch" to "lenny". aptitude update; aptitude install aptitude; aptitude safe-upgrade; aptitude full-upgrade. Also ask about <apt-listbugs>, <etch->lenny key>.
13:23<DarkWerdna>Flakk, have you tried opening nautilus from a terminal and then reading the output on the console when it crashes
13:23<enri>etch in the shell?
13:23<patrikf>enri: read what dpkg said
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13:26<Flakk>locklace: so I am proceeding from the "failsafe" terminal. doing the aptitude full-upgrade. it suggests something about the packages, it is hopeless for me to understand the story. it concerns libvte-common, libgda2-bin, and many others. i guess I "accept this solution" as it suggests?
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13:26<locklace>Flakk: sounds like your upgrade didn't go as it was supposed to.
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13:27<locklace>Flakk: first abort that and then try "aptitude safe-upgrade" instead
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13:27<bremner>sigh. New usb key, new failure. Now it says Missing operating system. Should I be using sdb1 or sdb to install? It seems unetbootin wants sdb1 (because it wants it mounted first), but the install notes look like /dev/sdb
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13:28<DarkWerdna>if you're doing it from Linux it should be sdb1
13:28<locklace>bremner: it should be sdb since there's no way to write the boot sector otherwise
13:28<bremner>locklace, ok thanks, I'll go back to the debian installer official way
13:29<Flakk>locklace: again many nessages like: packages recommended, but will not be installed. it s ok?
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13:29<locklace>bremner: i mean, it's going to have to write directly to sdb somehow. but not sure about how unetbootin wants you to say it
13:29<locklace>Flakk: yes
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13:29<bremner>locklace, right, I guess it could be clever
13:29<noppe>i'm currently using sid and want to switch to testing. how long does it usually take for sid packages to become testing packages so i don't accidentally the whole thing?
13:30<cwqjio>so my debian install isn't booting (lenny). GRUB loads. i make my selection and text is scrolling past the screen. at the same point every time the screen flickers off for a half second then returns back to the booting output. NOTE: when it returns the output text starts at the top of the screen. the screen has basically been 'clear'ed. THIS IS NEW AS OF THIS MORNING and always at the same point during boot... THEN the last text on the screen app
13:30<cwqjio>ears to be mapper looking for my hdd. it the line right before i usually get prompted for my passphrase. that's where the boot process halts. if i type text it does not appear on ths screen. pressing enter does not make a new line. however Ctrl+Alt+Del will restart the system at this point.
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13:30<DarkWerdna>noppe, I believe testing is behind sid
13:30<cwqjio>sorry. that looked alot shorter in my screen
13:30<valdyn>Grzegorz: change boot order in bios
13:30<bremner>and when the install instructions say copy an iso, they mean just as a file, or unpack it first?
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13:32<cwqjio>does that make any sense?
13:32<locklace>cwqjio: can you boot successfully with the init=/bin/bash kernel option
13:32<cwqjio>i haven't tried anything else besides the normal grub selection method
13:32<DarkWerdna>bremner, are you using an iso
13:32<locklace>cwqjio: that was a hint to try it
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13:33<cwqjio>heh. never done it. how?
13:33<noppe>DarkWerdna: yes, i know. that's the reason i ask. i used to run testing, then switched to sid. i got everything from sid i want and used it for a couple of weeks, but now want to slowly go back to testing. but if i do that now and update everything in say 2 weeks without checking all packages, i might downgrade my sid packages to testing packages and accidentally the whole debian. so what's the best way to migrate from sid to testing?
13:33<locklace>cwqjio: hit 'e' on the grub menu which will let you edit the kernel command line to add that option
13:34<DarkWerdna>just use one of the options from the drop down list
13:34<bremner>DarkWerdna, I'm flexible, but yeah, that is what I was trying
13:34<cwqjio>locklace: so add that at the end of the line?
13:34<DarkWerdna>when I used an iso it gave me problems
13:34<DarkWerdna>I need to go now
13:34<locklace>cwqjio: yes
13:34<DarkWerdna>I'll try and come back after work
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13:35<cwqjio>ok. gotta reboot to try it. btw what will that do exactly?
13:35<cwqjio>i should mention that my hdd is encrypted
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13:36<cwqjio>and i have to enter a passphrase during boot to access it
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13:36<locklace>cwqjio: drop to a shell instead of running init and going through the normal startup process. but because of your config it's probably not going to work anyway, i expect the result to be the same
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13:37<cwqjio>so if it is successful and drops to the shell, what then?
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13:37<cwqjio>or just try and see for now?
13:38<locklace>this is why encrypting your root filesystem is silly btw
13:38<locklace>just try it, if it works you can start trying to bring the system up manually
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13:39<Flakk>Locklace: btw, i am going through the whole procedure of upgrading now. Is it OK, knowing that I already have done the upgrade etch -> lenny?
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13:39<s0n1>what i change pts for ttyS in debian ?
13:39<s0n1>someone knows?
13:39<locklace>Flakk: yes, but basically the relevant part just amounts to "aptitude safe-upgrade" and then "aptitude full-upgrade", assuming your sources.list is correct
13:40<Flakk>sources.list contains lenny everywhere
13:40<cwqjio>ok. i encrypt my root fs because someone could always mount it and put in hacked versions of trusted files, etc
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13:40<locklace>!tell s0n1 about br
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13:45<Grzegorz>valdyn: I had already changed to boot from CD, no effect
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13:58<woshfdwo>locklace: yeah. no dice. same as before
13:59<locklace>woshfdwo: what happens if you boot from a rescue cd and try to do the cryptsetup and mount manually
13:59<woshfdwo>locklace: i dont have a rescue cd
13:59<woshfdwo>do you mean a livecd?
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13:59<woshfdwo>i could try that with ubuntu. done it before
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14:01<woshfdwo>it'll probably work. dont have any cds though...
14:02<Borland>does it nerd rage you nerds
14:02<Borland>when you think about how recent ubuntu is
14:02<Borland>yet how insanely dominate
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14:02<locklace>!lart Borland
14:02*dpkg chops Borland in half with a free Solaris 7 CD
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14:03<Borland>the mind is weak I see
14:05<ml|>!nuke Borland
14:05*dpkg fires an 80 petaton thermonuclear weapon at ml|
14:05<locklace>that's certainly what we noticed when you joined, yes
14:05<ml|>ouch thanks dpkg
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14:07<Borland>I bet you were first in line for the recent startrek movie
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14:09<bja>ml|: Messing with the bots again?
14:10<ranix>bots are always fun to mess with
14:10<bja>ranix: ml| is prone to killing them, :)
14:10<ml|>no dpkg nuled the person :P
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14:11<ranix>the tiny little security problems are always so similar to horrible business-killing pokes
14:11-!-mika_ [] has joined #debian
14:11<ml|>wrong person even
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14:11<ml|>bja: hello, :P
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14:11<ranix>like, ask dpkg to tell you about tell me about
14:12<ranix>I like that one
14:12<ranix>and the silly things that happen if you have his name when he signs in
14:12-!-klh [] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
14:13<ranix>I like to think of dpkg as if he were a person
14:13<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or for pics. Use for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Just use pastebinit (package) if you cannot cut & paste.
14:13<bremner>for those of you following along at home, nothing wrong with the usb key boot install, it works fine on another machine. I'll have to go back to using a CDROM on this thinkpad X40
14:14<ml|>bja: btw how is zshrc working out? i made some changes if you wanna see lmk
14:14<ml|>ranix: dpkg is a person ;)
14:15<bja>ml|: Itś fine, I've been taken your general way of commenting options to set up mine. And I've added some.
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14:15<Borland>I bet telling people you're an irc user makes you feel good
14:16<ml|>bja: good
14:17<bja>ml|: I have the general feeling that everything is faster on zsh but, I haven meassured it yet
14:17<ml|>bja: maybe a little, but who knows
14:18<ml|>bja: could be a mental thing since zsh is much better than bash
14:19<bja>I'll think of a way to benchmark it,
14:19<locklace>!start a shell war
14:19<dpkg>tcsh owns bsh
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14:19<dpkg>lay off me you buggerererers!!11!
14:19<bja>ml|: That's why i want to benchmark it, btw i had to reconfigure ssh so i could have some of your options running
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14:20<ml|>bja: what options? works fine here
14:20-!-adema [] has joined #debian
14:20<bja>ml|: ssh autocompletion, I had all ssh hashed
14:21<ml|>yeah but that is no biggie
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14:22<bja>ml|: I didn't even know i had that option set, it was supposed to be off by default
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14:23<ml|>bja: this option HashKnownHosts yes
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14:23<bja>ml|: yep thats the one, a simple cp and a # and that was it
14:24<urbinek>i wanna buy laptop for my girlfriend and install debian on it, i know that nvidia have good support and what about ati/intel ?
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14:25<ranix>urbinek: recent intel chipsets have the best support
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14:26<bja>urbinek: If you want to buy a laptop, 3 things, check support for the wifi chipset, bluetooth chipset, video and dvd writing capabilities.
14:26<ml|>bja: but having it hashed is better
14:26<bja>urbinek: Those usually are the parts that have the most trouble
14:26<bja>ml|: but no autocompletion :(
14:26<urbinek>bja: is there any easy way to check it or i must digg in google ?
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14:27<locklace>bja: that was four things
14:27<ml|>bja: why not no one can read that gibberish
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14:28<jimbo7>help im in dependency hell! i just got back from a holiday in south america for 4 months, did a safe-upgrade and a dist-upgrade and now KDE is screwd
14:29<bja>locklace: sorry tangled fingers, i stoped counting at three he he
14:29<jimbo7>so just wondering if it is ok to have both stable and testing in my sources file?
14:29<jimbo7>i think thats whay im having issues
14:29<urbinek>jimbo7:no, it's not
14:30<bja>urbinek: wireless linux and the bluetooth proyect on linux are two good places to look for compatibility (is that spelled correctly?)
14:31<jimbo7>ok so thats probably why its like that. at the moment i now have just testing in sources and i removed kde + associated packages. then i will do an aptitude install kde
14:31<bja>ml|: :)
14:32<ml|>jimbo7: if you want newer stuff use
14:32<ml|>dpkg: tell jimbo7 about bpo
14:32<jimbo7>so backports works safely with testing?
14:33<ml|>no aren't you on stable?
14:33<jimbo7>or do i have to only have backports?
14:34<jimbo7>no on testing, added stable a while back to solve another dependency issue (i know bad practice...) . now its come back and bitten me
14:34<ml|>if you are on testing bpo is not for you
14:35<jimbo7>ok cool. i hope by just rolling back and reinstalling kde will fix it then
14:35<ml|>yeah and stable should not be there
14:35<jthomas_sb>How can I install a text file into Cron (root's crontab) ?
14:36<locklace>jthomas_sb: man crontab
14:36<jthomas_sb>i did
14:36<s0n1>who i change pts for ttyS ?
14:37<jthomas_sb>locklace "The first form of this command is used to install a new crontab from some named file" -- which is the first form they're referring to?
14:38<jthomas_sb>oh i think they mean the first example at the top of the man page -- real clear, that. thanks locklace for getting me to read it again :)
14:40<bja>s0n1: Can you rephrase your question, if not, then take a look at #debian-br
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14:43<Flakk>locklace: i got through finally with upgrading from terminal; and the problem disappeared (at leat for the moment :)) Thanx!!
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14:45<jimbo7>ml| yep got rid of stable from my sources so eventually everything should clean itself up in my database (with a few forced purges and installs :)
14:46<ml|>jimbo7: gl
14:47-!-mode/#debian [+l 447] by debhelper
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14:47<jimbo7>ml|: danke!
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14:47<bja>!congratulate Flakk
14:47<dpkg>Huzzah Flakk, you did it!
14:48-!-fous [] has joined #debian
14:49<fous>has any one tried to put debian on a aspire one netbook?
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14:49<locklace>!fgi fous debian-aspire-one
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14:52<fous>well I am just wondering if anyone has done it
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14:58<fous>did you run in to any problems?
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15:02<scientes>is there a meta-package for debian that includes a richer desktop?
15:02-!-Myra [] has joined #debian
15:02<ml|>gnome or kde
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15:02<Borland>kde is for winners
15:03<Borland>I bet you can guess what gnome is for :)
15:03<scientes>i was thinking gnome, i guess there are the upsteam gnome and kde packages
15:03<scientes>that install it all of that DE
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15:06<Borland>ubuntu is capable of running *inside of windows, how you feel about that
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15:07<ml|>!ops Borland spam
15:07<dpkg>Hydroxide, bob2, caphuso, dondelelcaro, doogie, eeyore-, ElectricElf, ):, helix, ljlane, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, Netsnipe, TML, walters, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Alife, Myon, Ganneff, Maulkin, weasel, zobel: ml| complains about: Borland spam
15:08-!-mode/#debian [+o Ganneff] by ChanServ
15:08-!-exu`` is now known as exu
15:08<cahoot>anything runs 'inside of windows' regrettably
15:08-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*Borland@*] by Ganneff
15:08-!-Borland was kicked from #debian by Ganneff [oh sure]
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15:09<ml|>Ganneff: thanks
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15:11<perlsyntax>anyone have hard time withxchat and irc?
15:11<azeem>perlsyntax: try to be more specific
15:12<perlsyntax>i men i had a hard time connecting to the irc servers.
15:12-!-AbsintheSyringe2 is now known as AbsintheSyringe
15:12<azeem>perlsyntax: why is that?
15:12<perlsyntax>i not sure
15:13<perlsyntax>it will not let me connect to other irc networks.
15:13-!-mode/#debian [-b *!*Borland@*] by Ganneff
15:13<perlsyntax>I hope soeone can help me.
15:14<perlsyntax>or is they have prob with the irc servers?
15:14-!-Zenfur [] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 90 seconds.]
15:14<perlsyntax>is there a link i can paste the prob?
15:15<ml|>dpkg: tell perlsyntax about pastebin
15:16-!-dho [~dho@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
15:17<perlsyntax>it connect to the server and then tell disconnect for some reason samething on the desktop and laptop.
15:17<perlsyntax>that link you gave me it will not let me paste it.
15:19<perlsyntax>last night i use tor and today i reinstall my linux and now it will not work.
15:19<perlsyntax>i not useing tor now.
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15:19<woshfdwo>locklace: you around?
15:20<perlsyntax>this the only irc i can get into.
15:20<woshfdwo>were you just suggesting mounting the volume using cryptsetup or was there anything else after that?
15:21<perlsyntax>i give up
15:21<woshfdwo>give up on what?
15:21<perlsyntax>this irc
15:21<perlsyntax>this the only room that will work
15:22<perlsyntax>that odd
15:22<woshfdwo>you aren't doing it right
15:22<perlsyntax> will not work at all.
15:22<perlsyntax>what am i not doing right.
15:22<bremner>perlsyntax, maybe you are banned from freenet?
15:22<woshfdwo>explain "wont work"
15:22<Supaplex>maybe they want php3 instead.
15:23<woshfdwo>what is the message you get?
15:24<perlsyntax>what you think?
15:25<woshfdwo>i know what your problem is
15:25<perlsyntax>what is it
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15:25<woshfdwo>well, that'll run you about 10 dollars
15:25-!-Lethalman [] has joined #debian
15:25<perlsyntax>what is is
15:25<Supaplex>is is a word is is is it is yes.
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15:25<bremner>perlsyntax, read the last 3 lines
15:26<woshfdwo>come to tor
15:26<Supaplex>they come to take your packets away ha ha
15:26<woshfdwo>perlsyntax: join #tor this is a tor related issue
15:26<perlsyntax>i said i not useing Tor
15:26<junix>i jsut loaded the bnx module manually into debian etch r8, do i need to put "bnx" in the /etc/modules?
15:27<woshfdwo>well the text you pasted says that you are
15:27<woshfdwo>[15:14:11] -@- *** Banned: Tor freenode is hidden-service-only (mejokbp2brhw4omd.onion) - see (2009/06/08 00.49)
15:27<woshfdwo>^^^^that means you are trying to connect through tor
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15:29<junix>how do i get the bnx driver to load upon boot? do i put bnx into the /etc/modules?
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15:52<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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15:53<bja>and ml| scores 2 points!
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15:55<woshfdwo>so my boot process hangs at 'device-mapper .....' right before i usually enter my encryption passphrase
15:55<woshfdwo>this just started today
15:56<woshfdwo>there is no error message. it just hangs there indefinitely.
15:57<chealer>junix: you can
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15:57<junix>chealer: is there an easier method...??
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15:58<chealer>junix: what is this module's role?
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15:58<junix>its the bnx2 module for Broadcom network card
15:59<Bunnyh>Can OpenSSH be set to require multiple authentication methods for a single login? Not just password-protected private keys, but a separate private key (password-protected or not) and a system password.
15:59<chealer>junix: this kind of module should normally load automatically
15:59<junix>it didn't ask me during install to set it up
15:59<junix>wasn't happy about it
15:59<bja>Bunnyh: Strange thing to ask, what do you need to acomplish?
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16:01<bja>Bunnyh: nomachine client/server does require a key pair, for it user(nx), then i needs a password for the user beeing connected
16:01<Bunnyh>I guess this is not the right place to ask, if anyone doesn't know a straight answer. I just don't like the idea that private key passwords can be cracked offline.
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16:01<DTE>hi all
16:01<DTE>i have some problem with a radeon 790gx
16:01<DTE>i cannot make it to work
16:02<bja>Bunnyh: Haven't been accomplished yet. If you ever do so let me know
16:02<ml|>Bunnyh: just safe guard the private key
16:02<Bunnyh>It would also help automating the key changing process, since it wouldn't require a password to be known in plaintext
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16:03<DTE>nobody have experience with this card?
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16:04<bja>Bunnyh: I guess you need to read a little more about public key encryption and its weaknesses
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16:05<Bunnyh>Most likely, but isn't it still a good practice to change keys often?
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16:06<ml|>no need unless someone gets a hold on private key
16:06<Bunnyh>The thing is, I'm carrying it around on a USB stick
16:06<bja>Bunnyh: yea like every two years or so depends on how paranoic you are
16:06<Bunnyh>It's very likely someone could get a hold of it without my knowing
16:07<bja>Bunnyh: passphrase it
16:07<ml|>Bunnyh: don't use private key use public key
16:07<bja>Bunnyh: keyrings on
16:07<ml|>carry around only public key
16:08-!-jason_ [] has joined #debian
16:08<ml|>and make both read and write only by the owner *only*
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16:10<raymonp>guys, im trying to build the nvidia driver, but it fails horribly without any specific error msg.. any tips? (lenny)
16:10<ml|>in my .ssh/ everything is read and write by owner only not just keys
16:10<bja>Bunnyh: You can always put a cryptfs on the usb
16:10<bja>ml|: That's because ssh complains any other way he he
16:11<ml|>bja: no not all of them need thode permissions
16:11<Bunnyh>But that can be bruteforced offline as well as a plain passphrase-protected key, I was thinking of a solution that would require a key that changes often, and the knowledge of the system password (that can't be bruteforced offline)
16:12<Bunnyh>That's very theoretical, I know, best to stop here :)
16:12<bja>Bunnyh: Why don't you take a look to Tzun Tzu "art of war"
16:12<ml|>Bunnyh: use a different passphare for ssh and only use public key on usb
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16:13<Bunnyh>I'm confused about how I could login with just a public key?
16:13<ml|>nothing can be done with public key and a good passphare
16:13-!-paul [] has joined #debian
16:13<ml|>Bunnyh: that is what a plubic key is for
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16:14<bja>Bunnyh: "The amount of resources assigned to brake into something is proportional to the amount of the reward asociated with it"
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16:15<bja>Bunnyh: If your sistem is guarding the accespoint to Fort Knox, I would simply disconnect it from the net.
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16:16<ml|>Bunnyh: read up on ssh man ssh sshd this explains things also...
16:17<ml|>bja: hah
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16:17<bja>ml|: I'm pondering if you'll get 1 or 2 points on that one :|
16:17<ml|>bja: for?
16:18<bja>Answering on such a polite way!
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16:18<ml|>Bunnyh: this one too
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16:18<ml|>bja: :P
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16:21<ml|>Bunnyh: lets say you lose your usb key all you do is make a new key pair with strong passphare and you are done nothing to worry about
16:22<Bunnyh>How do I know I've lost it?
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16:22<ml|>well won't it be with you?
16:22<Bunnyh>I mean if someone makes a copy
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16:23<ml|>that's why you use a plubic key and strong passpharse, it will take them years to crack
16:23<ml|>but you can make new pairs as often as you like
16:24<ml|>and even if they do they still need your ip etc...
16:26-!-llutz_ is now known as llutz
16:26<ml|>just don't let your usb key out of your sight ;)
16:26<ml|>helps also
16:26<locklace>aptitude install green-dam
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16:27<dr|z3d>locklace: Read the article :P Windows only.
16:27<dr|z3d>locklace: Or
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16:29<Bunnyh>Having the required password attached to the key, in contrast to the system account, also means that any password complexity checks can't be used. Cracklib seemed very nice
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16:29<Bunnyh>Or am I missing some easy solution here?
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16:30<ml|>Bunnyh: what do you mean?
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16:32<Bunnyh>Is it possible to enforce a password-protected key to be used, let alone regulate the complexity of that password?
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16:33<ml|>i'm sure someone will find a way to get around that china thing
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16:34<ml|>Bunnyh: are you talking about ssh?
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16:36<Bunnyh>Yes, using only keys for authentication allows lazy people to use passwordless keys, or the same password for many years. Using both keys and system password would require them to have a key (password protected or not, most likely not) AND know their system password (on which complexity and expiration policies can be enforced)
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16:37<Bunnyh>I found some hits about that with google, but it seems that openssh doesn't support the feature unlike some other ssh servers
16:37<jovig>If I wanted to back this install up to a DVD-RW or DVD what would you recommend as the dpkg for using to an old man that is now having problems with CLI?
16:40<dr|z3d>jovig: You want to backup your entire Debian install to DVD, via a gui?
16:40<jovig>dr|z3d: Yes, that would be good.
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16:42<dr|z3d>jovig: Your first port of call, from a terminal: apt-cache search dvd backup
16:42<simNIX>maybe you could do that with debian-live ?
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16:42<jovig>I could also use a GUI dpkg to show my nephews and niece how important making regular backups really is.
16:42<simNIX>o theres even a dvd pkg
16:42<jovig>Thank you.
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16:42<ml|>Bunnyh: i think using keys with good passphrase is enough, and setting up sshd_config correctly, using pubic key etc... just change you key pair often if you are paranoid
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16:44<bja>ml|: definetly you deserve not 2 but 3 point
16:44<simNIX>jovig; I let my nephew when here w pc network boot clonezilla and immage with that to my server
16:44<woshfdwo>anyone use the encrypted lvm option during install?
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16:45<jovig>simNIX: That sounds like fun
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16:46<ml|>i use rsnapshot for backups and clonezilla if i need an image :)
16:46<simNIX>als I use rsync for backup with runnnig system - I believe backuppc could be called rsync with a (web) gui ...
16:47<jovig>That search that dr|z3d gave me says pybackpack is a gnome thing, I guess that is GUI. I will find out in a moment.
16:47<ml|>simNIX: take a look at rsnapshot, it uses rsync
16:48<simNIX>thx for sugesiton - but im already a content rsnapshot user - I pointed to backuppc bcouse a gui was requested
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16:48<jovig>I am familiar with rsync, use to run terminals before there was a GUI on anything, Those old Zeniths were rock solid.
16:49<ml|>simNIX: ok you said rsync thought i'd mention it :)
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16:49<simNIX>apreciated - if it were new to me I'd realy wanted to hear about it - )
16:50<jovig>The kids all like the point and click stuff, and I am getting to where it is easier on me, now.
16:50<ml|>i used to use rsync then discovered rsnapshot best thing ever! :)
16:50<simNIX>agreed ml :)
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16:50<jovig>I would much rather show them a good backup routine than listen to them whine when systems or hardware fails.
16:51<ml|>jovig: they use linux?
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16:52<jovig>They are starting to now that they have noticed this old box has been up for 8 years without incident.
16:53<amphi_>jovig: heh
16:53-!-amphi_ is now known as amphi
16:53<simNIX>if they have to setup in a gui backups I think backuppc is best to try for fit 1st - for self rsnapshot is realy worth a look
16:53-!-direcorsair [] has joined #debian
16:53<direcorsair>Greetings, I just used the net install of Debian to test if it would install onto a computer I have
16:54<jovig>One nephew was trying to GIVE me vista, I did not accept it , but I thanked him kindly, it crashed three weeks after install.
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16:54<direcorsair>It worked fine. However, I selected the option for the KDE install and the desktop environment isn't loading
16:54<dr|z3d>jovig: Sounds like you've got your work cut out!
16:54<amphi>direcorsair: anything interesting in /var/log/Xorg.0.log
16:54<direcorsair>Do I have to be connected to the net in order to install KDE?
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16:54<ml|>jovig: if you want show them how to use rsync rsnapshot when they are ready like simNIX said
16:54<amphi>direcorsair: yes
16:55<simNIX>jovig, Setting up a automated install of your Debian boxed with preseed and maybe even FAI IMHO (and let it maybe sync back the made rsnapsot backups) also fits in a backup strategy ...
16:55<jovig>direcorsair: Yes, after netinstall you can select what you desire.
16:55<direcorsair>@amphi and jovig: I see, so the netinstall only installs the terminal then?
16:55<dr|z3d>simNIX: Remember, jovig wants a GUI so he can show his younger relations.
16:56<ml|>direcorsair: no it installs gnome kde also your install went wrong somewhere
16:56<magyar_>hi, anyone here has setup ldap and winbind?
16:57<simNIX>dr|z3d, if setup networkinstall automation all they do in case of real brakeege and no luck with clonezilla is select reinstall in pxelinux menu ...
16:57<ml|>direcorsair: you can try purging all kde stuff and reinstall kde
16:57<jovig>And doing my best to keep them off of Ubuntu, although I certainly appreciate that distro was one of the groundbreakers for Desktop Linux use, it is not to my liking.
16:57<direcorsair>@ml|: Well from the boot menu I went to the KDE install option, what I couldn't do was set up my network because that computer doesn't have an internet connection
16:58<simNIX>dr|z3d, but I think you meen what I say makes lot of work for jovig ,not the kids
16:58<locklace>!win jovig
16:58<dpkg>Congratulations, jovig! You have won a lifetime supply of spam!
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16:58<ml|>direcorsair: huh for netinst you need working internet
16:59<bja>or e
16:59<direcorsair>@ml|: yes that was my question. I was curious if the netinstall included KDE on the CD or it had to be downloaded
16:59<bja>or else you are left with a barebones install of debian
16:59<dpkg>@ is used to separate the username from the hostname in an email address, to denote channel operators on IRC, and to direct replies to particular users in some web fora. It is NOT used to direct replies on IRC; use "name: ..." instead of "@name ...".
16:59<simNIX>direcorsair, netboot = installer, rest is pulled fron net ..
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17:00<bja>direcorsair: If your are installing debian on a non connected machine, you are bettere off with regular cds
17:00<direcorsair>ty simNIX and yes bja I will be using the regular cds
17:00<jovig>or one DVD
17:00<ml|>dpkg: tell direcorsair about netinst
17:00<simNIX>it can install a minimal Debian if you like or a bulky one, just like the full installer cd's, no diference there depends on what you choose to nstall
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17:01<jovig>What happened to Amanda?
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17:02<simNIX>one DVD also good sugestion .. also I would prefer temporarely connect the box ..
17:03<bja>simNIX: I believe a temporary connection could accomplish far more, but you can't allways get away with everything :)
17:03<ml|>netinst is my choice, if good connection is available
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17:03<jovig>Yes, I liked that also
17:03<dr|z3d>Yup, netinstall is best, connection permitting.
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17:04<direcorsair>Well I downloaded all the CDs
17:04<direcorsair>I just ran out of CDs
17:04<dr|z3d>Much more granular control of install, often, and no need to update install once it's done (unlike CD/DVD install).
17:04<ml|>direcorsair: if you are going to connect that box to the net just download an cd iso instead
17:04<direcorsair>lol so I went with the netinst hoping it would have the desktop environment affixed to it and wouldn't need to swipe it from the net
17:04<direcorsair>No worries
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17:06<zaccour>where can i get those "powered by ubuntu" stickers?
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17:07<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
17:07<ml|>not here ask in #ubuntu :P
17:07<zaccour>i mean the aluminum ones
17:07<jovig>Oh there is amanda, it is in Cedar2
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17:09<amphi>zaccour: prester the Shuttled One
17:09<zaccour>amphi, huh?
17:10<ml|>dict pester ;)
17:10<amphi>'annoy persistently' quoth dict
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17:11<amphi>zaccour: english is not your default language?
17:11<zaccour>amphi, yes it is
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17:12<zaccour>amphi, its just smartasses aren't my default people i like to talk to
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17:12<direcorsair>thx for your help everyone
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17:12<jovig>Now I am thoroughly confused, I also run gNewSense, but there setup or whatever is just confounding when trying to show another about this and that is different. but the same, but different.....and so on.
17:13<zaccour>where can i get those little aluminum stickers that say "Powered by Ubuntu"
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17:13<locklace>zaccour: why did you join #debian to ask that
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17:14<jovig>That was funny
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17:15<ml|>jovig: happens often
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17:15<peterS>I wonder if anyone uses stickers like "Powered by 120 VAC"
17:15<miguel>why does : aptitude install mencoder
17:15<miguel>does not work??
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17:15<miguel>how do i find mencoder
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17:16<peterS>I think mencoder is included in the mplayer package, no?
17:16<miguel>i thouthg so
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17:16<miguel>but i have mplayer
17:16<miguel>but no mencoder :(
17:16<shamanix>miguel: include the multimedia repos in sources list
17:16<dpkg>[dmm] Debian Multimedia, a repository of unofficial Debian packages, not in Debian for patent-related reasons, maintained by Christian Marillat. For information on how to use this repository, see or ask me about <dmm etch> <dmm lenny> <dmm squeeze>.
17:16<jovig>But aluminum stickers? If I had such worries in my everyday life, well thank you, I am happy I do not.
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17:17<woshfdwo>compile it yourself
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17:18<ml|>but how can he have mplayer without dmm unless he compiled it himself
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17:20<npnux>Avermedia A707 PCIe dual Hybrid analog/dvb-t/dvb-s for ubunutu help me
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17:20<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
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17:22<jovig>I wrote my local PBS station a couple of years ago, they only streamed with WinMedia or RP, they now use open formats also.
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17:23<ml|>jovig: gj :)
17:24<jovig>Is or is it libre,fm that is the 'good' one?
17:24<bzed>the supposed to be good one is as the name says ;)
17:24<npnux>Avermedia A707 PCIe dual Hybrid analog/dvb-t/dvb-s for ubunutu help me
17:24<dr|z3d>Can't fail, there.
17:24<npnux>Avermedia A707 PCIe dual Hybrid analog/dvb-t/dvb-s for ubunutu help me
17:25<bzed>npnux: go to #ubuntu.
17:25<npnux>but not answer me #ubuntu
17:25<dr|z3d>npnux: Click this link -> irc://
17:25<npnux>pls help me
17:26<dr|z3d>npnux: You won't get help here. Guaranteed.
17:26<jovig>Shoutcast is good, I was looking at they are more GNU oriented, or they just want e.mail addresses.
17:26<dr|z3d>Not familiar with myself, jovig
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17:27<jovig>dr|z3d: scroogle it, is worth a look over.
17:27<dr|z3d>Will do.
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17:36<jstein>packages ms-sys seems to be removed from 'testing' what should i use instead?
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17:37<dr|z3d>What are you wanting to do, jstein?
17:38<dondelelcaro>jstein: mkrboot, syslinux, etc. will do that.
17:38<blu> boa noite a tds
17:38<blu> gostaria de saber como fasso pra reproduzir umvodeo no formato rmvb
17:38<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
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17:41<blu> boa noite a tds
17:41<blu> gostaria de saber como fasso pra reproduzir umvodeo no formato rmvb
17:41<dr|z3d>!tell blu about pt
17:41<dpkg>The language of #debian is English. We will do our best to help you regardless of your level of English but you might be more comfortable asking for help in your own language. Ask me about your language code for more information, for example /msg dpkg br ; /msg dpkg pt ; /msg dpkg es ; /msg dpkg fr ; /msg dpkg de
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17:43<bja>dr|z3d: 1 point for you the other for adama
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17:45<ml|>i have the lead atm ;)
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17:45*dr|z3d donates all his points to charity.
17:46*bja takes those electronics points and makes them reall stuff for charity
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18:18<Zviper>can someone help me figure out why the loads on my cpu are so high? im looking for the process that's causing it
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18:18<bja>Zviper: top
18:19<bja>Zviper: man top
18:19<jstein>dr|z3d: i want to make an bootable usb stick with an fat16 boot partition
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18:20<Zviper>i did htop but i don't see any processes taking up much cpu %
18:21<Zviper>my first core is 100%, it has 4 cores
18:21<AzaTht>anything common for both xfce4 and gnome/ iceweasel and xchat, and non in xterm, above the xserver, can control what you have for input?
18:22<Zviper>how can i see what's taking up 100% on my first core?
18:22<AzaTht>the first core has four cores?
18:23<Zviper>no no, the first core out of 4 cores
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18:23<Zviper>in htop i see 1 [||||||||||||||||||||||||||||]100%
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18:24<Zviper>but the rest aren't doing anything
18:24<Kjetil>use top..
18:24<AzaTht>though the same
18:24<Zviper>i did, but no process is above 2%
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18:26<Kjetil>how do you know that something is running one core @ 100% ?
18:28<Kjetil>and what is your load ?
18:29<Zviper>i know, it's driving me nuts
18:29<Kjetil>and what does htop show as the task that uses the most cpu ?
18:30<Zviper>deluge at 2.6%
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18:30<azeem>!am i swapping
18:30<dpkg>run "vmstat 3" and ignore the first 3 lines, if the "so" column is not 0s all the time you are swapping
18:30<azeem>Zviper: maybe that^^
18:30<Zviper>ok i will try that
18:31<Zviper>so far only one of them is 1
18:32<bja>Zviper: what does the id column read out on the first line
18:32<sylarrr> script is executed at the end of each multiuser runlevel.
18:32<sylarrr># Make sure that the script will "exit 0" on success or any other
18:32<sylarrr># value on error.
18:32<sylarrr># In order to enable or disable this script just change the execution
18:32-!-sylarrr was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use the paster bot or #flood]
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18:33<Zviper>it looped, now all are 0's
18:33<sylarrr>something was stuck in my clipboard
18:33<Zviper>for so
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18:33<sylarrr>what is " end of each multiuser runlevel."?
18:34<sylarrr>how many such runlevels are there?
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18:36<Zviper>so now everything under so is 0
18:36<bja>Zviper: run vmstat again
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18:38<bja>Zviper: ps -AF>somefile and then read the file carefully, lots of info there
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18:39<Zviper>btw so is all 0's again
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18:41<bja>Zviper: Redirect the output to a file for later analysis
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18:44<bja>sylarrr: ls /etc all those little rc#.d are the runlevels on your hw
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18:48<sylarrr>bja, does this script run once, or many times on boot?
18:48<sylarrr>what is " end of each multiuser runlevel."?
18:49<sylarrr>from google it looks like it runs once on boot
18:50<sylarrr>but from what it say in the comments it looks like it runs after each bla which if there are a few blas then it will run multiple times
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18:51<sylarrr>anyone know this: /dev/dm-4: read failed after 0 of 4096 at 0: Input/output error
18:52<miguel>can i have different wallpaers on all desktops under xfce4?
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18:55<woodcomp>soo, i ran chmod -R 700 /
18:55<woodcomp>wasnt so smart..
18:55<woodcomp>any idea how i can fix this?
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18:56<ml|>woodcomp: recover from backup
18:56<woodcomp>cant say i have any of those
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18:57<ml|>you did that as root?
18:58<ml|>!win woodcomp
18:58<dpkg>Congratulations, woodcomp! You have won the US presidency!
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18:58<ml|>woodcomp: is your home in a sperate partition
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19:00<woodcomp>so well, first thing i noticed was that apache wouldnt serve any pages
19:00<woodcomp>so i chmodded my entire /var/www/ to 777, i thougt, what the hell, cant get any worse huh
19:00<woodcomp>but it still wont work :(
19:01<miguel>set just : chmod -R 777 /
19:01<ml|>woodcomp: it will be hard to reset the permissions on your system
19:01<miguel>then everybody will be allowed to do everyghin
19:01<ml|>yeah but not good
19:01-!-marnold [] has joined #debian
19:01<miguel>if he is the ONLY user?
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19:02<woodcomp>i dont think thats such a good idea either.. i did some research now afterwards and appearently chmod -R 777 / causes quite some problems too
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19:03<ml|>guess if you have no other options, but i would backup whatever data and reinstall, unless some knows a way to fix permissions for the whole system
19:03<woodcomp>but yeah well, i didnt do it on purpose so i ctrl-c:ed quite fast
19:04<woodcomp>but it managed to get quite a bit through my system anyway
19:04<ml|>yeah that goes by quick ;(
19:04<woodcomp>soo, can you reinstall remotely?
19:05<bja>woodcomp: easy on that one,
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19:05<bja>woodcomp: Where was the damage sustained
19:06<bja>woodcomp: but first
19:06<bja>!tell woodcomp about unix lessons
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19:06<woodcomp>lol, what do you mean where?
19:06<ml|>dpkg tell woodcomp about remote install
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19:07<ml|>dpkg tell woodcomp about debootstrap
19:07<ml|>maybe that will help
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19:08<ml|>bja: pretty much all of his permissions are toast
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19:09<bja>ml|: /dev/ and /proc are regain when he reboots, after that, he just has to fix a few to have things running again.
19:09<ml|>woodcomp: in the future you can spare you self some headaches with a backup
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19:09<bja>ml|: Then he'll need to spend 5 days tunning them all or do a reinstall he he
19:09<woodcomp>sure thing
19:10<ml|>bja: yeah but that is a pain
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19:10<ml|>but woodcomp would never do that again, atleat not on purpose
19:11<prahal>hi partly off topic ... how to convert nanoseconds to seconds ? this is for a gvfs patch
19:11<woodcomp>it wasnt the brightest thing i've done no
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19:11<ml|>always think twice before doing stuff recursively
19:12<ml|>and on /
19:12<woodcomp>but lets see.. /bin, /boot and /var is fucked, the rest SEEMS kinda intact actually
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19:13<woodcomp>home, initrd, proc, root and selinux is 700 also ;P
19:13<bja>woodcomp: boot should be 755
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19:14<bja>every file under that should be 544 and every dir 755
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19:14<bja>after that you should have a booting machine he he
19:14<ml|>most dir are 755, but files are a different story
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19:15<bja>ml|: I don't know why but everydir must be executable?
19:15<woodcomp>uhh great.. funny thing is that my call of duty server keeps running under screen but i cant reattach too it :(
19:15-!-methodman [~methodman@] has joined #debian
19:15<ml|>bja: can be read without them being so
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19:16<bja>I know
19:16-!-hollo [] has joined #debian
19:16<locklace>bja: what do you mean you don't know why
19:16-!-Misssalty [] has joined #debian
19:16<ml|>oh thought you aked above
19:18<bja>locklace: Let me rephrase, you read a directory, you don't execute it, why should the execution bit be set? I know you need it for that. I just don't understand why?
19:18<locklace>bja: the exec bit controls whether you can chdir to it
19:19<locklace>it's rare that there's any reason to distinguish that from readability, but now and then it has some limited use
19:20<bja>locklace: got it, I never thought of it that way
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19:20<woodcomp>hmm, sooo
19:20<woodcomp>apt-get install debootstrap
19:21-!-ajonat [~ajonat@] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
19:21<woodcomp>so can i download a new system to some random folder then start using that one?
19:22<locklace>bja: (well, chdir and also access anything inside it)
19:23<bja>locklace: long time ago used chmod -R and screwed a few dirs, Thats when i found about that he he
19:24<miguel>how can i see who is logged in!?
19:25-!-hollo [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:25<locklace>miguel: w
19:26<bja>miguel: "users" also works
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19:37<miguel>ook thx
19:37<miguel>and who too
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19:39<miguel>i always type in the wrong window, sorry
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19:59<ootput>your irc prompt should include channel name
19:59<Zviper>ok here's the output of my ps -axu, can anyone explain why im getting a high load of 5.32?
20:04<xemacs4321>Zviper, top will tell you who is the cpu hog
20:04<bja>Zviper: Are you downloading large files with rtorrent, its been working a lot
20:04<bja>Zviper: vmstat -f
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20:28<Zviper>bja: vmstat -f comes out with this
20:28<Zviper> 290028 forks
20:28<Zviper>i did mpstat, does this look right?:
20:28<Zviper>02:22:22 CPU %user %nice %sys %iowait %irq %soft %steal %idle intr/s
20:28<Zviper>02:22:22 all 1.13 0.00 0.55 28.14 0.04 0.27 0.00 69.88 2738.11
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20:29<MadEchidna>Hi everyone just a quick question
20:30<MadEchidna>I'm planning to move to Debian from Ubuntu, and I've heard that the "stable" branch usually has really outdated packages
20:30-!-obluda [~obluda@] has left #debian []
20:30<MadEchidna>so should I install lenny or squeeze?
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20:33<bja>Zviper: Your system had a lot of load, afaik an unbalanced one. But it is no longer on that state of load.
20:34<bja>Zviper: It does show that there was a lot of swapping. A good thing to do is take a snapshot of the actual state and take one when the load is at its max
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20:34<Zviper>load is at ~5 right now
20:34<Zviper>and that stat didn't show all of the cpus
20:34<Zviper>here they are
20:35<Zviper>does iowait have anything to do with it? they seem awfully high
20:35<Zviper>also should intr/s be 2743.64?
20:35<bja>Zviper: yor cpus are all waiting for your hdd
20:35-!-ootput [] has joined #debian
20:36<bja>Zviper: and they are mostly iddle
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20:36<Zviper>this is odd then
20:37<Zviper>my cpu core is still at 100% for core #1
20:37<bja>Zviper: Check your hdd configuration if you haver raid or not. Maybe one of your hdd is about to fail
20:37<Zviper>i've got raid0
20:37<bja>Zviper: vmstat doesn't show and top is a big load on the core
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20:39<bja>Uploading or downloading?
20:40<bja>i mean rtorrent is uploading or downloading
20:40<MadEchidna>I'm planning to move to Debian from Ubuntu, and I've heard that the "stable" branch usually has really outdated packages
20:40<MadEchidna>so should I install lenny or squeeze?
20:41<bja>MadEchidna: Depends on what are you looking for?
20:41-!-nou [Chaton@2001:6f8:328:bbc:6666:6667::] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:41<Zviper>bja: it's doing both
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20:41<kapil>MadEchidna: install stable and update from testing as and when you really need a package from there
20:42-!-nou [Chaton@2001:6f8:328:bbc:6666:6667::] has joined #debian
20:42<bja>Zviper: When a client finishes downloading it's supposed to check the whole file. Giving a peak load to the cpu.
20:43<Zviper>yeah i know hashing, but no one is currently hashing atm..
20:43<bja>Zviper: It would also explain why your whole system is waiting for your hdd to finish i/o
20:43<bja>Zviper: when you use htop be carefull how you interpret results
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20:44<Zviper>what should i lookout for?
20:45<bja>Zviper: rephrase, i don't understand your question.
20:45<Zviper>what might i interpret incorrectly?
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20:47<bja>Zviper: take a look at "man top", yes without the h as it will tell you what each column is for.
20:47<ml|>MadEchidna: install lenny and use or install lenny and move to squeeze
20:47<bja>Zviper: To solve your problem i believe you need more ram or limit the amount of resources that rtorrent is using.
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20:48<ml|>dpkg: tell MadEchidna about install
20:48<MadEchidna>ml|: ah, I never heard of backports before, that sounds perfect
20:48<ml|>dpkg: tell MadEchidna about lenny->squeeze
20:48<ml|>dpkg: tell MadEchidna about bpo
20:48<Zviper>bja: even though only 356mb out of 4gb is being used?
20:49<ml|>MadEchidna: that should help
20:49<ml|>dpkg: tell MadEchidna about dpkgbot
20:49<MadEchidna>thanks, it will
20:49<ml|>dpkg: selt tell
20:49<dpkg>ml|: I give up, what is it?
20:50<bja>Zviper: hard to tell, what does free tells you. What I can see is a lot of swaping and a system that is mainly waiting for hdd i/o
20:50<ml|>dpkg: tell MadEchidna about self tell
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20:50<Zviper> total used free shared buffers cached
20:50<Zviper>Mem: 4129844 4012664 117180 0 23824 3647000
20:50-!-madrescher [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:50<Zviper>-/+ buffers/cache: 341840 3788004
20:50<Zviper>Swap: 522452 84 522368
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20:54<bja>Zviper: you have runned out of memory at least once. Your system right now is not under stress. When you really feel it slow, take a snapshot using the tools you already know
20:54<bja>Zviper: and compare
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20:58<bja>twb: Do you mean callback function
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20:58<twb>Actually I wanted a link to a "preferred" PPP callback article for lenny.
20:59<twb>Since most of the references are for woody-era stuff, and I automatically suspect them.
20:59<bja>twb: well old-style modems seem to be an antiquity right now
20:59<twb>They are indeed.
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21:02<eldowon>I've added another sata drive to my system, and now to boot, I've got to go and change root hd(1,1) to hd(0,1) to get into debian. Before, hd(0,0) was used to dual boot windows. I'm confused and don't even know where to start looking.
21:02<ml|>dpkg tell twb about ppp
21:02<ml|>dunno if that helps
21:03<bja>eldowon: fdisk -l then check /boot/grub/menu.lst
21:03<eldowon>bja: fdisk didn't turn up any issues, and menu.lst looks normal
21:03<twb>The other fun part is that on-site I currently have one modem, talking to a RHEL server.
21:04<twb>So I need to configure the new box to do ppp callback, then have the monkey swap the cables over and hope I got it all correct...
21:04<eldowon>bja: I even did update-grub and tried re-installing grub to /dev/sda (my first serial drive)
21:04<bja>eldowon: use persistent names on your menu.lst
21:04<eldowon>bja: like uuid or somesuch?
21:05<bja>eldowon: yes, try looking at ls -la /dev/disk/by-uuid and there you have at least a way to your soulution
21:06<eldowon>bja: If I make a custom menu.lst, and I update my kernel in the future, won't it break when apt does the update-grub after the linux-image is installed?
21:06<Zviper>bja: i killed one of the many running rtorrents, and all seems to be back to normal!!
21:06<bja>!congratulate Zviper
21:06<dpkg>Good show Zviper, you did it!
21:07<adb>eldowon:look in > cat /boot/grub/ , to see if both disk are listed
21:07<eldowon>adb: both are listed, and look correct.
21:07<bja>eldowon: there is a kopt option on your menu.lst that is wher you put the option of the hdd when you want it permanently
21:09<bja>eldowon: kopt=root=UUID="your uuid you want to boot root from" ro
21:09<eldowon>bja: great.
21:09<bja>eldowon: Hope it works
21:10<ml|>!beer bja
21:10*dpkg pours a litre of Delirium Tremens for bja
21:10<eldowon>bja: do you suppose I should try the uuid as an added entry in the grub menu, leaving what currently works as it is?
21:10<bja>ml|: thx i needed that
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21:10<ml|>np :)
21:11<bja>eldowon: I usually make a copy of menu.lst and place it under my regular user, then i make the arrangements as i see fit
21:11<eldowon>bja: sounds good to me. Thanks for the help.
21:11<ml|>yes backup!
21:11<bja>eldowon: If something fails you can allways type on the initial boot screen the old settings
21:12<bja>eldowon: which btw are easier to type than the uuid
21:13<eldowon>bja: very true. Thanks for the help, I'm going to drop and try to get grub straightened out.
21:14<bja>eldowon: Good luck
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22:04<twb>Where are the meanings of the default system groups defined?
22:05<twb>Some untrustworthy documentation is telling me to create a "ppp" group, but there's already a "dialout" group which sounds like teh same thing.
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22:06<twb>Ah, !group
22:07<twb>!groups, rather.
22:08<adb> /msg dpkg item
22:08<adb> group
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22:31<twb>adb: that's what I did.
22:31<adb>and ....happy ?
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23:08<bremner>is there a way to install cint (C interpreter) without 100M of ROOT (numerical analysis package)?
23:09<twb>bremner: you could use tcc, which is not really an interpreter, just a fast compiler
23:09<twb>Assuming i386, that is
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23:09<bremner>twb: yeah, I want an interpreter, it is for people learning C
23:09-!-Holborn [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
23:10<twb>I'm not sure an interpreter is actually C; rather a variant thereof ;-)
23:10<twb>They should be learning Scheme! ;-)
23:10<bremner>twb: they learn Haskell later
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23:11<twb>At least you're not giving them Python first.
23:11<twb>Python, then Java, then C++. Bleh.
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23:23<wooj>Anyone know if debian works properly on atom lpia systems with gma 500?
23:23<wooj>(Dell Inspiron Mini 12)
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23:26<Joemama_>i got a dell poweredge and im looking on dells website for the linux audio driver, and they dont have debian listed, just ESXi, SuSE Linux ES 9 SP4 x86_64 , Redhat Enterprise Linux 4.5, Redhat Enterprise Linux 5, and SuSE Linux ES 9 and ES 10
23:26<Joemama_>which should i get?
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23:27<Joemama_>how should i go about getting sound?
23:27<dpkg>[dell] A wonderful company that makes very wonderful laptops, but also some extremely bad laptops, or the worst company you could ever do business with, or crap, or,, Also ask me about <laptop>.
23:27<Joemama_>thank you very much
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23:34<Joemama_>adb still there?
23:36<sney>Joemama_: lspci |grep -i audio
23:37<sney>since Dell does not actually make chips of any kind, the audio chip in your poweredge will be made by someone else. it will also likely be something common. my money's on c-media, realtek, or soundmax.
23:37<sney>all 3 are supported natively by the linux kernel, by the way.
23:37<Joemama_>sney nothing
23:37<Joemama_>didnt find anything
23:37<adb>so no audio
23:38<Joemama_>lemme look, i think it has audio jacks on the back
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23:38<adb>means supported audio
23:39<Joemama_>yeah, i guess thats a good reason why it dont work
23:39<adb>Joemama_: what 's running now on?
23:39<Joemama_>damn thing dont have audio card
23:39<Joemama_>no jacks
23:39<Joemama_>i guess i just imagined they were there
23:39<Joemama_>i got a usb sound card laying around here, i wonder if that will work
23:39<adb>Joemama_: what 's running now on?
23:39<sney>how big of a box is it? big enough for a regular size PCI card? you could just get a cheap soundcard and toss it in
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23:40<Joemama_>adb what u mean, what os am i runnin?
23:40<sney>USB might work, tends to hog CPU but I guess in your case that won't be a problem
23:40<Joemama_>debain 65
23:40<Joemama_>er 64
23:40<adb>65 -1
23:40<Joemama_>lenny or kenny or someone
23:40<Joemama_>its a dual 2.0 quad core
23:40<adb> cat /etc/debian_version
23:40<Joemama_>blazing fast machine
23:41<Joemama_>is that the latest?
23:41<sney>latest stable, anyway
23:41<adb>lenny ,ok , latest stable
23:41<Joemama_>good enough for me
23:41<adb>~30 cd of packages ..
23:42<sney>so, um, why are you trying to get audio on a server? using the dang thing as a desktop? I hope you aren't paying your own power bill
23:42<Joemama_>no, its not my desktop computer
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23:42<Joemama_>but, i use it for freeswitch
23:43<Joemama_>and would be nice to listen to the .wav recordings directly
23:43<Joemama_>i could just plug this server into my main mixer
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23:43<Joemama_>and it would just be another channels....
23:43<sney>yeah, best solution would be to put some cheapo PCI sound card in there
23:43<Joemama_>i dont even think it has pci slots man
23:44<Joemama_>i opened this thing up a while back
23:44<Joemama_>and it had like one big pci express slot
23:44<dpkg>rt is, like, Real-time applications have operational deadlines between some triggering event and the application's response to that event. To meet these operational deadlines, programmers use real-time operating systems (RTOS) on which the maximum response time can be calculated or measured realiable for the given application and environment.
23:44<sney>what is it, 1U? it's gotta have at least one
23:44<Joemama_>then a bunch of little black slots
23:44<Joemama_>no its not rackmount
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23:44<Joemama_>its tower on wheels
23:44<adb>.twin one?
23:45<sney>hmm, so PCI-E only. weird. though I guess I'm not shocked that Dell of all people would deny people the option of reusing perfectly good old adapters
23:45<Joemama_>not sure
23:45<Joemama_>so PCI-E i thought that was for video cards
23:45<sney>still, a discrete PCI-E 1x sound card can't be *that* expensive
23:45<sney>pci-e is supposed to be a full replacement for pci
23:45<Joemama_>ahh that must be what all the lil black slots are
23:46<sney>anything pci can do, pci-e can also do, and faster.
23:46<Joemama_>yeah well while im at it i need an FXO or two
23:46<sney>the only problem is production hasn't caught up and there are still zillions more pci cards than pci-e
23:46<Joemama_>i know, i got a shit ton of pci cards
23:46<Joemama_>no pci-e cards, other than couple video cards
23:49<sney>pci-e cards are more expensive to booot
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 09 00:00:16 2009