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#debian IRC Logs for 2009-10-31

---Logopened Sat Oct 31 00:00:11 2009
---Daychanged Sat Oct 31 2009
00:00-!-bones is now known as srn9
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00:01<srn9>Quick and stupid question, if I dl the KDE CD from the Debian ftp site it will bring me into a nice vanilla KDE environment correct?
00:02<sney>as long as you select 'desktop environment' in your install tasks, it should yes
00:04<srn9>ok thanks just wanted to double check :P
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00:07<user01>is the freebsd port the same as regular debian except the kernel?
00:08<user01>like you could run flash on it?
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00:08<sney>user01: uh?
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00:08<overddose>hi sney
00:09<PovAddict>user01: well different kernel needs different userland binaries
00:09<PovAddict>user01: and Flash doesn't support BSD
00:09<sney>BSD has some limited ELF binary support, I think, but it would be very kludgy getting it working, if it's even possible
00:09<user01>PovAddict, i thought all the packages would be the same though
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00:09<PovAddict>yes, recompiled for FreeBSD
00:10<PovAddict>debian can't recompile Flash... it's closed-source
00:10<sney>it'd be like trying to run a windows exe on linux
00:10<eix_>i played around with kfreebsd testing, and it wouldn't even install X
00:10<user01>PovAddict, so it would start wine?
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00:11<user01>eix_, i tried to install it at the ubuntu installfest and couldnt get it to work
00:11<user01>hannahmontana linux worked great though
00:12<eix_>well, at least irssi played, an os that does'nt let me chat won't count
00:12<user01>i brought that because a ubuntu kde developer was there, what hannahmontana linux is based on, and i was like, hey i like the improvements you made
00:14<user01>then just sufed away on my lenny laptop
00:14<user01>are there free stickers out there for debian?
00:14<overddose>can someone help me create a live cd?
00:15<adb> > #debian-live
00:16<user01>what desktop do you want?
00:16<overddose>well its not a debian live cd
00:16<overddose>i was gonna try to make an arch linux live cd.
00:16<overddose>but i dont understand the instructions given
00:16<dpkg>Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic (i.e. Debian support); imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day. #debian-offtopic is the place for longer off-topic discussions.
00:16<chrisreich>do a web search on debian remaster - There are instructions there
00:16<sney>#archlinux on
00:17<user01>arch linux has a live cd i though
00:17<overddose>it does
00:17<overddose>but it might require that i have arch installed
00:17<overddose>i wish there was just one i could download -_-
00:17<overddose>i dont want to go through the trouble of making the iso
00:18<adb> overddose ask google
00:18<sney>well we aren't going to help you with a livecd from some other distro
00:19<overddose>well, its not necessarily the other distro
00:20<PovAddict>the ##c++ bot has a nice factoid for it
00:20<PovAddict>"I tried to buy a Renault in a Renault shop, but there were no salesmen available, so I came into this Ford shop. Why won't you sell me a Renault?!"
00:21<sney>We're not all just pedantic assholes, either. Most of us probably haven't even used Archlinux, and are therefore unqualified to support it.
00:21<user01>parce que je ne peux pas parler français
00:22<user01>overddose, read the arch wiki link
00:23<user01>it sounds like what you want
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00:23<adb> parler français chez toi , pas ici
00:23<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr sur Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr on
00:23<user01>well dont talk about renault cars here, talk about linux
00:24<dpkg>i heard cn is China, or for help in chinese please join #debian-zh, Please use UTF-8, for IRC help see | Qt/KDE è¿æ¸¡æå¼å§ï¼è¯¦æ请é读
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00:26<dpkg>la is, like, Laos. Lame Abbreviation/Acronym
00:27<user01>ah no latin support yet
00:27<user01>wait i thought lo was laos
00:27<adb>user01, msg bots
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00:31<user01>i wonder if there is a relationship between the first internet message and loopback
00:31<user01>the first message was lo i think
00:32<eix_>recently, I started playing around with openbsd, like it, but wonder, if my dvb-t set is supported ...
00:32<user01>i installed that too
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00:33<user01>theo yelled at me 4 years ago so i switched to debian :)
00:33<user01>not so much switched but stopped using openbsd for awhile
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00:34<user01>im not sure about dvb-t packages, there is a channel for them though
00:34<goodger>eix_: linux is known to have the best hardware support of any kernel, so there's a non-negligible likelihood that your more esoteric devices will not be supported by another one
00:34<PovAddict>I wonder...
00:35<PovAddict>there are distributions using BSD kernels with GNU userlands
00:35<PovAddict>instead of BSD userland
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00:35<goodger>indeed, such as debian gnu/kfreebsd
00:35<PovAddict>are there distributions of Linux with non-GNU userland apps?
00:35<user01>i never tried hurd linux
00:35<PovAddict>user01: that's an oxymoron... sort of
00:36<goodger>it's a contradiction in terms
00:36<PovAddict>hurd is another kernel... if you use hurd you don't use linux
00:36<user01>hurd unix i mean
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00:36<eix_>Debian GNU/Hurd? Sorry, my hard drive is full
00:36<goodger>you can use debian gnu/hurd... well, I say you can use it
00:37<user01>you say but you cant actually use it?
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00:38<sney>it's not exactly useful
00:38<goodger>I've never tried, but my understanding is that it's been in pre-alpha for the last two decades
00:39<eix_>I have obsd, winxp, minix, ubuntu, debian and a grml cd, that should suffice
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00:39<adb>debian gnu/reactos
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00:39*adb hide
00:40<eix_>wait, there is a dusted nsd live cd
00:40<overddose> found my live cd :D
00:40*dpkg slaps overddose around a bit with a large trout
00:41*PovAddict slaps dpkg, takes the trout and puts it back into the stream; trouts saved: 13
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00:41<user01>hehe watching Instalando HURD on youtube :)
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00:42<eix_>usenet is auch nich mehr das was es mal war ...
00:42<eix_>upps, sorry for german
00:43<goodger>monosyllabic german :o
00:44<eix_>so, well, had a D grade, but made it ...
00:44<goodger>I have never before seen a monosyllabic German sentence that wasn't dumbed down for the purposes of language training
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00:46<eix_>the As and Bs were in physics, math, cs, arts, who cares 'bout grammar
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00:50<eix_>goodger: what it means is, that usenet had better times
00:50<goodger>eix_: indeed it has...
00:51<goodger>it's a great shame that the world-wide web has come to eclipse everything
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00:51<eix_>hu, me?
00:53<eix_>is PovAddict bored of me?
00:53<goodger>I doubt it
00:54<eix_>hmm, 6am, should be in bed ...
00:54<eix_>at least I have slept
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03:33<sri>how can i search for list of rooms? i am not getting list of any rooms, when i search
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03:45<Swaft>anyone know how I could downgrade X to make it support my driver
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03:51<drbombay>hello all, ? w/8gb of ram do youstill need a swap partition for a desktop system
03:51<drbombay>you still need a swap partition?
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04:06<bignose>the Description in ‘/etc/init.d/’ says: “Network file systems are mounted by /etc/network/if-up.d/mountnfs in the background when interfaces are brought up”
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04:06<bignose>um, says who? I've never had that file, and prior to dependency-based boot scripts, my NFS scripts were brought up by the boot scripts.
04:07<bignose>what's supposed to create that file? when did it become necessary?
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04:11<rwittler>bignose: this file should be installed by package "initscripts"
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04:13<bignose>rwittler: you're right. seems I still haven't got to the bootom of the failure.
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04:17<rwittler>bignose: of course i'm right! *duck&cover*
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04:26<GhostlyDeath>heh, after dist-upgrading to squeeze, the network card now only operates at 10mbps instead of 100mbps which is what it did before
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04:30<GhostlyDeath>00:0d.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82557/8/9/0/1 Ethernet Pro 100 (rev 01)
04:30<GhostlyDeath>Maybe it's so old of a card that 100mbps isn't important to it anymore
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04:36<GhostlyDeath>Computer starts, green light indicates 100mbps
04:36<GhostlyDeath>however, once Linux loads, the amber light of 10mbps is shown instead
04:38<rwittler>maybe autosense works not properly
04:40<rwittler>ethtool maybe help
04:40<rwittler>ah may help
04:41<GhostlyDeath>let's see
04:42<rwittler>try ethtool -s speed 100
04:42<rwittler>or something else
04:42<GhostlyDeath>yeah, saw it in help, SSH session dropped, so I figure the command did something
04:43<GhostlyDeath>now it's 100
04:43<rwittler>you can place it in /etc/network/interfaces, directly under the section for yor card
04:44<rwittler>post-up ethtool -s speed 100
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04:52<hachi>how can I find what kernels can run privileged under the xen hypervisor? I'm looking for something newer than 2.6.26 because there's a networking fix I need that was applied after 2.6.26
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04:58<GhostlyDeath>rwittler: No effect
04:58<rwittler>GhostlyDeath: what?
04:58<GhostlyDeath>ethtool on post-up
04:58<rwittler>ah, show me how you do this, please
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05:00<GhostlyDeath>`post-up ethtool -s speed 100` did not work
05:00<GhostlyDeath>nor did `post-up ethtootl -s eth0 speed 100`
05:01<rwittler>sorry my fault
05:01<GhostlyDeath>Also, using ethtool via the terminal drops the network
05:01<rwittler>up /usr/sbin/ethtool -s eth0 speed 100 duplex full autoneg on
05:01<rwittler>try this
05:01<GhostlyDeath>When followed by a dhclient, it resets to 10
05:01<rwittler>only with "up"
05:03<GhostlyDeath>attempting now
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05:05<GhostlyDeath>misplaced option, couldn't parse
05:06<rwittler>paste your file
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05:12<GhostlyDeath>stray character, hold on, I'll try again
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05:13<GhostlyDeath>lit up as 100 halfway into the Linux boot
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05:15<GhostlyDeath>rwittler: worked, thanks
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05:18<GhostlyDeath>amber looks nicer than green though, might have to downgrade the entire network
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05:43<staaleu>My server has 16 in load, yet no processes show up in top as taking more than 5% CPU, where can I find the list of processes causing high load?
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06:03<locklace>staaleu: do you know what load average is
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06:05<staaleu>locklace, from what I know, I think its the amount of process waiting to execute
06:06<staaleu>the load average is how many of those there are over time
06:06<staaleu>Despite nothing showing in top or iotop as resource hogs, the computer is still sluggish when the load average is high
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06:08<locklace>1, 5, and 15 minute averages of the number of processes in the run queue or waiting for i/o
06:09<locklace>so if the number of processes is constant, and your load averages are high, you should be seeing the corresponding amount of processes in states R or D
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06:10<locklace>otherwise you could be experiencing process churn, or the tools aren't giving you all the data for some reason
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06:14<valdyn>staaleu: high load does not make your system sluggish, your system being sluggish can show high load at the same time though
06:15<valdyn>staaleu: sluggish is very vague too
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06:16<staaleu>Watching movies over the network gets sluggish on the remote machine. Also, I see downloads doing 1.3 mb/s, then suddenly stopping for several seconds, before resuming again at full speed
06:16<valdyn>or you can probably construct 4 digit high load with no noticable effect on system performance
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06:16<valdyn>staaleu: so something else is using your network
06:16<staaleu>I'll sort by state and look at D and R process in top too see a pattern at least
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06:17<valdyn>staaleu: the error does not have to be on that box with high load if its a network issue
06:17<locklace>staaleu: also paste "cat /proc/loadavg" and "grep processor /proc/cpuinfo"
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06:18<ubas>che palle ancora lo stesso problema...qualcuno sa come mettere gli hz che non vengono visualizzati??? in pratica vorrei cambiare la frequenza da terminale...
06:18<staaleu>Well, it might be the network, even though its not that big. And playing movies over the local network gets sluggish at the same time as downloading on the server from the external network
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06:18<staaleu>So it seems to be centered around my server
06:19<valdyn>staaleu: this is all very vague
06:19<valdyn>staaleu: we dont know your bandwidths
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06:19<staaleu>I have 10mbit internet connection going into the server, then a gigabit network to an 8-port switch going out from the server. Which also serves as a firewll
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06:21<staaleu>I have 2 processors, and this is whats in loadavg: 0.76 2.37 2.11 1/263 31906
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06:22<valdyn>staaleu: nothing to see there
06:23<staaleu>Any recommendations for tools or methods I can use to try and see a pattern?
06:23<valdyn>staaleu: reason
06:23<valdyn>staaleu: do we know its a network issue?
06:23<locklace>those are remarkably unremarkable load averages
06:23<staaleu>To me it seems like the server is unable to serve requests over samba sometimes
06:24<valdyn>staaleu: "seems" is bad
06:24<valdyn>staaleu: we need to know
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06:25<valdyn>staaleu: you dont need special knowledge, jsut reason. Do something that is sluggish. Once you found something that is *always* sluggish, reduce it
06:25<valdyn>staaleu: if samba is slow, do a network download not involving samba
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06:26<staaleu>I did some testing the other day. With Samba, ssh and ftp I can do 20 mb/s download to /dev/null. With nfs I can 110 mb/s
06:26<staaleu>ie. I mount using smbclient/fuse/nfs, the use dd if=remote_file of=/dev/null bs=16k
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06:27<valdyn>staaleu: are you sure that caching is excluded?
06:28<staaleu>yes, becuase I get over 2 gb/s with caching on nfs. I unmount the nfs filesystem, then mount it, then perform the test. It might be cached in memory on the server, but I was really just testing bandwith with the protocolls to other computers.
06:29<staaleu>Well, thanks for the help so far. I will have to look more into creating a reproducable case. But right now I just can't force reproduce the behaviour. I just have to watch a movie and watch for it to start chopping because it doesn't get data over the network.
06:29<staaleu>But, I g2g
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06:38<xtp>recherche aide pour debian mercis
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06:41<locklace>"/join #debian-fr"
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06:41<xtp>"/jion #debian-fr
06:42<locklace>you fail at irc
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06:49<grep>No comment.
06:49<xtp>comment rejiondre debian-fr
06:49<grep>Ah, comment?
06:50<grep>"/join #debian-fr"
06:50<xtp>"/join #debian-fr"
06:50<grep>/join #debian-fr
06:51<xtp>ou merci
06:51<grep>De rien.
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06:57<stonie>when i boot eth0 changes to eth1 ...why? or where can i set that fix to eth0?
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06:58<SoR>stonie: check your /etc/udev.d/rules.d/z70_persistent-net.rules or sth like that
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07:00<dpkg>udev has the ability to statically rename Ethernet cards based on MAC address since version 0.090. The addresses are configured in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules (Lenny, Squeeze) or /etc/udev/rules.d/z25_persistent-net.rules (Etch). If you want the mappings to change, edit the respective file. See also <forcedeth mac>, <udev>.
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07:04<bremner>Any recommendations between ejabberd, jabberd14 and jabberd2? Or some other jabber daemon in lenny?
07:04<xtp>encore moi je galere
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07:05<xtp>je recherche de aide pour de drbian merci
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07:05<bremner>xtp: !fr
07:05<xtp>pour configu​rais la son
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07:05<bremner>xtp: svp #debian-fr, ici, ou freenode?
07:05<xtp>au je suis francais
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07:06<eeebittin>does anyone know how to get the built in eeepc webcam to work in cheese on a 900HD?
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07:06<xtp>comment fais pour rejoindre debian-f
07:07<bremner>xtp: comme /join #debian-fr
07:07<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr sur Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr on
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07:10<eeebittin>got it to work in mplayer but not in cheese :(
07:10<EmleyMoor>What IM programs are there in stable that can support a webcam?
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07:12*EmleyMoor has webcam running but it's not the same experience
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07:17<eeebittin> kernel is 2.6.30-bpo.1-686
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07:18<streuner_>eebittin: please ask the question only in *ONE* channel.
07:18<streuner_>!multiple ask
07:18<dpkg>The chance of you getting a useful answer is inversely proportional to the square of the number of times you ask in a short amount of time: that is, if you ask four times in succession, you're 1/16 as likely to get a useful answer. Also, please don't ask both in freenode and OFTC at the same time; there's no real point in doing so and it's just annoying.
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07:37<eeebittin>i hope it fixes itself in some update =p
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08:05<jiohdi>why is the latest verision of gimp not installable by debian?
08:05<cahoot>because it's the latest?
08:05<jiohdi>it has a .deb file, doesnt that mean its ok for deb?
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08:06<cahoot>if delivered by debian I'd guess so - for the corresponding debian version
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08:06<jiohdi>2.6.- is upto like .7 and you cannot install any 2.6?
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08:07<abrotman>jiohdi: in lenny? squeeze?
08:07<jiohdi>I have lenny and the best I can get is 2.4 right now
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08:09<locklace>judd versions gimp
08:09<judd>locklace: gimp -- etch: 2.2.13-1etch4 etch-security: 2.2.13-1etch4 lenny: 2.4.7-1 sid: 2.6.7-1 squeeze: 2.6.7-1
08:10<abrotman>!meaning of stable
08:10<dpkg>"Stable" is a release, and it does not change much at all over its lifetime. There is a known set of bugs, and it gets security updates, and point releases. Some will consider this as 'stale', while others consider this one of the great advantages of Debian.
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08:13<jiohdi>when does squeeze come out?
08:13<Torsten_W>whet it's done
08:13<dpkg>Squeeze is the codename for the next release, Debian GNU/Linux 6.0. It is the three-eyed space alien. Ask me about <testing>. Not to be confused with the <Xfce> archive manager. Expected to be released in early 2010, see
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08:49<dpkg><deniz> if the output of glxinfo has the word "slow" repeating numerous times, what does this indicate?
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09:41<Acegi>I'm on ubuntu how do I add the debian sid repository?
09:41<Acegi>I get some warning about not having a key
09:41<kooll>you don't want to do that. Good way to break your current installation
09:42<Acegi>I use it on a temporary basis. Some apps require the latest version so I disable the repository after installing the specific app
09:44<abrotman>Acegi: you will break your system. No one here is going to help you do that.
09:45<Acegi>Ok. Thanks.
09:45<locklace>especially not since you're running ubuntu
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09:53<EmleyMoor>Did someone say the other week there was a backport of ekiga available?
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09:58<abrotman>judd: versions ekiga
09:58<judd>abrotman: ekiga -- etch: 2.0.3-6 etch-backports: 2.0.11-2~bpo40+1 lenny: 2.0.12-1+nmu1 squeeze: 3.2.5-1 sid: 3.2.6-1
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10:00<EmleyMoor>judd: Found an unofficial 3.2.5 for lenny - but thanks
10:00<judd>EmleyMoor: Error: "Found" is not a valid command.
10:00<EmleyMoor>abrotman even
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10:02<overddose>if im using debians archive manager to extract something with multiple archives (i.e. .01 .02) does it automatically select those and finish the extraction?
10:02<azeem>overddose: debian doesn't have an archive manager like that
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10:03<azeem>maybe Debian ships and app like that, but then you need to be more specific about what application you are talking about
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10:03<overddose>its just "Archive Manager"
10:04<overddose>should i just use ark?
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10:04<dr|z3d>overddose: file-roller might be useful.
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10:05<dr|z3d>Really depends what you want to achieve.
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10:05<scb>Hello. I am having a problem with the gtk font rendering. In my KDE apps they look just fine, but with firefox/gtk apps they look just fugly. Here's a picture: ... Any idea of what might be causing this?
10:06<overddose>i dont see a problem :P
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10:08<adb>scb, don't double post
10:09<overddose>dr|z3d, i dont want to archive something, i just need to extract a series of rar files.
10:09<scb>adb: alright, sorry.
10:10<locklace>!tell overddose about rar
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10:18<EmleyMoor>What a crummy backport
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10:21<EmleyMoor>Is there an easy way to find packages on my system which are not validated with a key?
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10:22<themill>EmleyMoor: "aptitude search ~o" will tell you about packages that apt doesn't have a sources.list entry for. That is perhaps part of the answer.
10:23<aguinaldoalves>someone cam help me with my external HD SATA in debian lenny?
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10:24<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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10:28<ozzle>Is there anyway to set /home/ to the root dir in SSH?
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10:28<ozzle>So users cant navigate to /var/www etc.
10:29<ichdasich>ozzle: there's a chrooting-feature in sshd
10:29<ozzle>I'll take a look at it
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10:46<ozzle>Haha, it worked
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11:23<user01>hi supertuxkart causes radio interference when i play it, i can hear on my laptop speakers
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11:24<user01>like an incoming cell phone that never stops
11:24<user01>very annoying when im trying to concentrate to shoot my rockets
11:25<locklace>is that what they're calling it these days
11:25<user01>what did you call it in your day?
11:26<user01>what would cause it, the graphics card?
11:26<user01>audio card?
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11:29<user01>then it crashes my system if i also have a browser open, everything freezes and i have to power down
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11:29<overddose>how would i go about accessing my debian file system from windows?
11:29<user01>not sure how it made it into stable
11:29<user01>overddose, well as long as it is formatted in ext2
11:30<user01>you can use one of those ext2 drivers
11:30<user01>ext3 would work too
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11:30<user01>or samba
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11:33*user01 shoots his rockets at penny penguin in supertuxkart
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11:36<user01>they should really modernize the lpic with more questions on tuxracer and supertuxkart than bash
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11:41<Defcon1>can anyone help me with getting gurb2 to recognize my windows7 partition?
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11:46<Cairo>overddose, If you use the ReiserFS you can download a program that allows you to access this type of partition:
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12:06<locklace>!pie dr|z3d
12:06*dpkg hits dr|z3d in the face with a cream pie
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12:08<dr|z3d>!lart locklace
12:08*dpkg urinates on locklace
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12:08*dr|z3d wins and grins.
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12:41<aguinaldoalves>I can't acess my external HD in Debian Lenny
12:41<aguinaldoalves>what I need to do?
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12:42<dr|z3d>aguinaldoalves: Give yourself permission to access external media.
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12:43<aguinaldoalves>I am root
12:43<aguinaldoalves>I don't find it in the system
12:44<dr|z3d>$ users-admin
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13:04<overddose>i need help burning a dual layer in debian :P i need to set the layerbreak somehow
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13:14<user01>try k3b
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13:19<uldics>Anyone could help me getting Konqueror to show option for "Show file tips" - the one, which lets you preview an image when you hover with mouse over it?
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13:20<themill>uldics: lenny (KDE3)?
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13:21<uldics>the new kde
13:21<themill>ahh... no idea then. #debian-kde can be better for KDE4 stuff
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13:37<puffy>hi all
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13:41<overddose>hai puffy
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13:42<overddose>abrotman, i hit a streak of luck on my compiz search
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13:43<overddose>i was able to install a version of compiz meant for archlinux :d
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13:46<cahoot>sounds like a case of successful slow oscide
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13:50<puffy>hi und nabend
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13:57<m_>hi, does anyone have any experience with programming shared memory by two or more threads?
13:58<adb>m_, wrong channel ?
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13:59<m_>you think so?:)
14:00<teknoid>strangely enough, my Plextor-drive doesn't recognize audio CDs while in Debian
14:00<teknoid>Plextor PX-820A
14:01<teknoid>does someone experience similar problems?
14:01<teknoid>yesterday I installed Linux Mint (for other purposes then testing out my optical drive tho)
14:01<teknoid>there it just worked
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14:01<teknoid>might be that I have to update the driver
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14:15<ff>cau vole
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14:16<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, cz is Czech Republic. Kanal pro cechy je #debian-cz
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14:17<abrotman>which is empty ...
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15:07<paulo>alguem ai?
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15:08<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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15:11<paulo>anybody home?
15:11<paulo>I'm a tester user!
15:12<avu>good for you
15:12<dr|z3d>let's hope you're not a testing user :)
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15:12<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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15:37<f1r3544>Hola muy buenos días
15:37<f1r3544>Cómo están ?
15:38<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
15:38<babilen>f1r3544: Or speak English in here :-D
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15:39<f1r3544>Ok, not speak english all, spanichs yes.
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15:39<f1r3544> /join #debian-es
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16:06<dpkg>* asg sings the 'My Little Pony' song
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16:26<cliff>any body want to help me with wireless?
16:26<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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16:28<remu>Hey folks, I need help with wine. I just installed it from the repository listed at, and when I try running winecfg this is the error I get.
16:28<remu>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
16:29<locklace>so it's not a debian wine package?
16:29-!-davi [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:29<remu>no it is not, the debian package is too old.
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16:29<cliff>when i had windows my wireless reached to my room why not with xubuntu?
16:30<locklace>then you want to ask elsewhere
16:30<dpkg>[wine] Wine Is Not an Emulator, an application intended to allow execution of Microsoft Windows programs. Packaged for Debian. Application compatibility database: . The beta Wine packages from are _not_ supported in #debian. #winehq on
16:30<remu>oh, okay, thanks locklace
16:30<dpkg>[xubuntu] a derivative of <Ubuntu> with the <Xfce> desktop environment. /join #xubuntu on for support. See also <based on debian>.
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16:33<remu>Well, my wine issue may be related to this. In a terminal window I issued the following command: "metacity --replace" and the error I get back is as follows: No protocol specified
16:33<remu>Window manager error: Unable to open X display :0.0
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16:39<styx>hi, is there a channel for routing/network issues?
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16:40<locklace>styx: in unix or for routers and switches?
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16:40<styx>i created VLANs, but only traffic on the subnet goes out there, all other traffic is shown to pass thru vlan100, but is not received on the other side (non-linux)
16:41<locklace>i don't understand your topology or your problem
16:41<locklace>there should nearly always be a one-to-one vlan/subnet correspondence
16:41<styx>i have eth1. there, vlan100 and vlan200 live.
16:42<styx>no, forget that...
16:42<styx>easier setup:
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16:43<styx>i have one uplink - DSL.
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16:44<styx>for various reasons, the DSL modem (which does the dial-in) passes thru an intermediate router, that puts all traffic from/to the DSL modem in a VLAN100
16:44<styx>on linux, i configured vlan100 with the public IP assigned by DHCP
16:44<styx>now, if i ping the router, that works.
16:45<styx>if i ping any other host, which goes thru vlan100, too, it does't work - the traffic, even if said to pass thru vlan100, goes out untagged
16:45<styx>ip route says default via dev vlan100
16:45<styx>vlan100 has the ip
16:46<locklace>so you have a switch linking the router and linux box, or what?
16:46<styx>no. direct link (via wireless, though)
16:46<styx>but it looks like the VLAN thing works if i ping
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16:46<styx>that one responds OK and i can see the traffic on the router
16:47<styx>just everything else doesn't :)
16:48<locklace>sounds like "everything else" (dsl modem?) doesn't have a route back to the vlan100 subnet
16:48<styx>oh the router (that tags the DSL modem traffic) i can see that a ping to passes vlan1, but all other comes in untagged
16:49<styx>the traffic to everywhere else doesn't go there because of the tagging
16:50<styx>modem never gets the request..
16:52<locklace>so physically you have linux--(wireless)--router--(ethernet cable)--dslbox?
16:52<styx>linux ------ (transparent converter)-----------(transparent converter)------router-------dslbox
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16:53<locklace>what is the converter stuff
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16:53<styx>eth1 has an IP, too, for management (same subnet where the management interfaces of the converter and the router are)
16:54<styx>ubiquity in bridgging mode
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16:56<locklace>so what kind of interfaces connect to it on the linux and router sides?
16:56<styx>on the DSL, it's untagged, linux gets a trunk
16:57<styx>the router does tag all traffic on the port where the DSL modem is
16:57<locklace>so the linux---router link is .1q?
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16:58<styx>on linux, the 8021q module is loaded
16:58<locklace>ok. so is the router actually doing routing or bridging? is dslbox routing or bridging?
16:58<styx>dslbox: routing. router: bridging
16:59<styx>basically, the full connection is bridged thru, the router only handles tagging/untagging
16:59<locklace>so the router is just acting like a switch here
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16:59<styx>vlan-aware switch, though ;)
16:59<locklace>fine. so it has dslbox on a vlan 100 access port, and you've got a vlan 100 subinterface on linux.
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17:00<styx>pinging the dslbox by its ip works.
17:00<styx>routing default route thru it doesn't
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17:01<chainsaw>come sail away
17:02<locklace>what do you get with a traceroute to an external host?
17:02<styx>timeouts at 1st hop
17:03<locklace>can you get out of dslbox at all, from anywhere?
17:03<styx>if i ping inside from the public net, the packets do arrive
17:03<styx>verified by iptables -j LOG
17:04<styx>(dslbox is not accessible by me, as it's from the provider)
17:04<locklace>but don't come back, presumably?
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17:05<styx>the reply doesn't go back from linux, right
17:06<locklace>ok, but since it gets there we know routing from internet-->linux via dslbox works
17:06<styx>for whatever reason, the reply goes out untagged, even if all on the linux side indicates it goes out via interface vlan100
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17:07<locklace>what do you mean "the reply goes out untagged"? out from linux? how are you determining that?
17:08<styx>the router has some nifty features
17:08<styx>like tracing interface traffix
17:08-!-eix_ [] has quit [Quit: Vim-Hilfe auf Deutsch]
17:08<styx>and i can see replies goin in from linux w/o tag
17:09<locklace>ok, so you're getting an actual dump of the ethernet traffic on the bridged segment, and you can see that the ethernet frame associated with the icmp echo reply generated by linux is not .1q-tagged; but the corresponding frame for a ping to dslbox initiated by linux is
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17:10<locklace>if you initiate a ping from linux to an external host, is the resulting ethernet frame tagged or not?
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17:11<styx>hang on
17:11<styx>one sec
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17:11<styx>reconfiguring router to not do ARP anywhere
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17:12<locklace>i hope it's not doing arp if it's bridging
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17:14<styx>that is weird
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17:15<styx>now i see traffic on the interface @ linux, but tracin on the router seems broken
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17:17<styx>actually, now
17:17<styx>all traffic to the DSL modem goes via DSL
17:18<styx>all traffic to the rest of the world doesn't even reach the bridged router
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17:19<locklace>so if you ping an outside host now you never even see the corresponding frame on the segment capture at the router?
17:20<styx>on linux, iptraf shows both packets go out on vlan100
17:20<locklace>and that really is a segment capture, not just a vlan capture or something?
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17:21<styx>it shows the traffic on the ethernet interface incl. VLAN IDs
17:21-!-XaraX [] has quit []
17:22<locklace>so how about if you run tcpdump on linux?
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17:22<styx>on vlan or eth?
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17:23<locklace>eth, with the appropriate magic options
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17:24<styx>any idea about the magic options? :/
17:24<Seneca>Hey all. I've noticed something about some Linux distro's, that put my monitor into "framebuffer" mode - causing a rather nice high res text mode display. How do I get my Debian host system to do this during bootup?
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17:26<locklace>styx: well, you want at least -e
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17:27<Gun_Smoke>Seneca, something like vga=791 does wonders for me. ymmv
17:27<dpkg>it has been said that fbcon is a graphics driver built into the kernel that accesses the video cards memory directly in a linear io, framebuffered X is just a way of using that kernel's framebuffer for graphics instead of the application itself having to know how the card works.. executive summary: it's hardware abstraction of the video, or slow, slow, slow... ask me about <fbcon resolution>
17:28<styx>locklace: hm
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17:28<styx>doesn't look too good, tcpdump seems to be uncooperative
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17:28<Seneca>Thanks. I'll look into that on my home system, and if it works well, I'll adopt it on my web server too.
17:28<locklace>kind of useless. anyway, you need one of the vesa-based fb modules or else one for your specific card
17:29<Gun_Smoke>GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet vga=791 da da ta da da
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17:29<locklace>styx: you can't tcpdump -e your ethernet interface?
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17:30<Seneca>I just know that distro's like Knoppix, and most recently Kubuntu on my laptop, offer an abnormally pretty text mode, and I had wanted to knwo how to reproduce it on my two primary Debian machines.
17:30<styx>tcpdump -e -i eth1.. then listening on eth1
17:30<styx>but no output
17:30<styx>and i cannot ctrl-c
17:30<styx>just kill -9
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17:30<styx>ah it just takes time
17:30<styx>still, no traffic is shown
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17:31<locklace>do you see the incoming packet if you initiate a ping outside-in?
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17:32<styx>nope. ifconfig counters do, howecer, increase
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17:33<styx>for eth1 and vlan100
17:33<locklace>how about icmp stats on netstat -s?
17:33<Seneca>I'll research the fb thing. Thanks again, and have a nice day.
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17:34<locklace>ok. don't know why you're not seeing either the inbound or outbound packets on tcpdump then
17:34<styx>locklace: say, could it be an issue having an IP on eth1?
17:34<styx>(the management network of the other boxes)
17:34<locklace>can you turn off your iptables stuff and see if that changes anything?
17:35<styx>iptables is empty
17:35<styx>do i need something in the /proc/sys/net stuff?
17:35<locklace>you mean you have another subnet on physical eth1 and not on any vlan?
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17:36<styx>the management lan of the bridges
17:37-!-mode/#debian [+l 401] by debhelper
17:37<styx>and the router (that acts as switch)
17:37<locklace>so that's untagged traffic and corresponds to the native vlan on the trunk?
17:37<styx>if that one is disabled, i cannot check the router.
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17:38<styx>the native vlan on the trunk is the default vlan
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17:38<styx>or no
17:38<styx>the default is untagge
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17:39<locklace>that's kind of a lame setup, btw. better not to use the native vlan and put the management subnet on its own vlan instead
17:39<styx>not an option with the ubiquities
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17:39<styx>and i cannot really config it right now.. noone there to reset stuff if i screw up
17:39<styx>btw: i do agree.
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17:40<styx>i could set up another VLAN
17:40<styx>... gimme 5 min
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17:40<locklace>shouldn't matter in this case though, should be simply a case of the default route pointing to dslbox's ip out eth1's vlan100 subinterface
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17:41<locklace>i assume "ip route show" and "arp" output check out
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17:41<locklace>might as well paste them -
17:41<locklace>along with the output of ifconfig -a
17:42<locklace>what kernel version is this
17:42<styx>i have the mgmt in a new vlan now
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17:46<styx>i put xxx over all public IPs
17:46<styx>don't ask why eth0 has a public IP, please :)
17:46<Tatjana_81_NS>can i ask something?
17:47<styx>the ifconfig is here:
17:47<styx>Tatjana_81_NS: just ask - don't ask to ask :)
17:47<simonrvn>!ask to ask
17:47<dpkg>Don't ask to ask. Don't ask if anybody can help you with x. Just ask! If you're unsure how to phrase your question, ask me about <ask>.
17:48<Tatjana_81_NS>i have ubuntu 9.10 and i can not connect to mu classic server
17:49<Tatjana_81_NS>for example
17:49<Tatjana_81_NS>i dont know what i have to write
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17:50<abrotman>Tatjana_81_NS: ask #ubuntu on
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17:54<locklace>styx: who has mac address 00:15:6d:e2:b9:42?
17:54<styx>one of the wireless bridges
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17:55<styx>management interface of the sme
17:55<styx>as mentioned: linux --- wlan bridge ||||||wireless linkk||||||||| - wlan bridge ------- router----dsl
17:56<styx>|| is wireless link, --- is ethernet
17:56<hachi>how can I find what kernels can run privileged under the xen hypervisor? I'm looking for something newer than 2.6.26 because there's a networking fix I need that was applied after 2.6.26
17:56<locklace>ok, you agree that vlan100 is a /30 and the two hosts on it are linux via the eth1.vlan100 interface, and dslbox?
17:57<locklace>and dslbox has address xxx.20.122.37, yes?
17:57<styx>38 is linux
17:58<locklace>so why is any mac address besides dslbox's appearing in the arp entry for xxx.20.122.37?
17:59<styx>THAT one is shiny
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18:01<styx>well, now it's gone
18:01<styx>i lost connection to the router somehow..
18:02<styx>won't react to ping
18:02<styx>does however, still route to the DSL modem
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18:03<styx>i am rebooting the box to clear stuff out
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18:05<locklace>with that setup, all your external-bound packets have mac addresses that deliver their layer 2 payload to the device with address 00:15:6d:e2:b9:42
18:06<styx>i'll check out with the hardware guy
18:07<styx>i need a reboot :)
18:07<styx>apparently i had a typo in the interfaces file
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18:16<dpkg><topa_> Guerin, tis ok i know what i'm doin
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18:40<styx>the router is now fully transparent
18:41<styx>locklace: standard GW is ping ok, external is not working
18:42<locklace>what does the arp table show now
18:42<styx>just the DSL router
18:42<styx>and some hosts for ethß
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18:43<locklace>ok, so what does the capture show now
18:43<danyel>tem agun brasileiro ai
18:43<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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18:44<styx>capture is unavailable. i lost the router
18:45<styx>i can only do on the box
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18:46<styx>iptables LOG target shows the box receives traffic from the internet
18:46-!-trinity1it [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:46<locklace>but you can't get a dump of ethernet frames sent by the box out of eth1?
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18:47<styx>locklace: qry?
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18:48<josiete>Hi to all
18:49<josiete>I have a problem with my CD-ROM on Debian SID
18:49<josiete>I cant'n mount my CD-ROM
18:50<josiete>When I do ; mount /media/cdrom I get this message ...
18:50-!-n0rman [~n0rman@] has left #debian []
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18:50<josiete>mount: can't find /media/cdron in /etc/fstab or /etc/mtab
18:51<locklace>not much more to add. you need to know what kind of frames are being generated by linux out of eth1. they must be .1q vlan 100 tagged and destined to dslbox. maybe try wireshark or something
18:51<josiete>anyone can help me ? Thanks
18:52<locklace>josiete: if you can't figure that out then you shouldn't be using sid
18:52-!-patrikf [] has quit [Quit: patrikf]
18:52<josiete>yes ... i think that so.
18:53<josiete>but It's too late to reinstall a new system
18:53<josiete>I have change d my sources.list to testing ...
18:54<locklace>won't help
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18:54<josiete>( i thing this cannot work it out)
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18:54<josiete>thanks locklace
18:54<garazy>hi I am trying to do an apt-get upgrade on etch and I'm getting 404
18:54<garazy>for addresses such as etch/updates/main apt
18:55<garazy>for example Failed to fetch 404 Not Found [IP: 80]
18:55<garazy>does anyone know why this is happening?
18:55<icebrain>have you run aptitude update?
18:56<garazy>just tried it then and still get the 404 afterwards on the apt-get update, apt-get upgrade
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18:57<icebrain>wait, that url isn't right
18:57<styx>locklace: pls look@qry
18:58<garazy>I know, it's a 404 when you click it as well
18:58-!-charles [~charles@] has joined #debian
18:58<garazy>but my sources.list is right though
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18:58<dpkg>Test failed.
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18:59<locklace>styx: i ignore messages, you're better off asking the channel
18:59-!-charles [~charles@] has quit []
18:59<styx>i'd like to grant you access
18:59<styx>this is a bit.. tough to put on the channel
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19:00<icebrain>garazy: are you sure your security line in sources.list is right?
19:00<twixt>I installed lenny with a 5-dvd set from On-Disk. I went online and used aptitude to upgrade many packages, which downloaded apparently just fine. But I got a "hash code mismatch" error from DVD 1, the same one I used to install Lenny in the first placeso now I have about 50 library packages and 24 other packages that won't install.
19:01<garazy>deb etch/updates main contrib non-free
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19:01<Xenguy>Hi - I want to burn a single file to 2 CDs (I need 2 CDs because the file is larger than ~700Mb, and I only have CDs, not any DVDs). I know I've done this in the past, but I can't seem to remember how I did it :P I know I could use 'split', but is there any burner software that will do it? (I've checked k3b and baraso, but I don't see any options for splitting the file to 2 CDs)
19:01<garazy>deb-src etch/updates main contrib non-free
19:01<twixt>how can I get aptitude to bypass the dvd and download the packages instead?
19:01<garazy>icebrain: that is the two lines I have
19:01<Xenguy>twixt: edit /etc/apt/sources.list ?
19:02<twixt>ok thanks xenguy
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19:02<Xenguy>twixt: yw
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19:04<styx>802.1Q Virtual LAN, PRI: 0, CFI: 0, ID: 100
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19:06<styx>it looks like some crappy device is not as transparent as it should be
19:07<styx>still kills me why the default GW works to ping and everything else doesnt
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19:11<locklace>do the frames for pings to both have the same format
19:11<garazy>do you guys recommend centos
19:11<garazy>as debian doesn't seem to get past apt-get updte
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19:11<garazy>apt-get update
19:12<styx>except for the checksum, dst ip, they are totally identical
19:12<styx>it looks like one of the bridges screws up...
19:12<styx>or the VLAN router
19:12<locklace>how do you know the dsl router can route out at all
19:12<styx>something there is proxy-arping
19:13<styx>a notebook there worked
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19:13<styx>(although without the VLANning
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19:14<styx>.. which i now, as i lost the router, cannot disable anymore :/
19:14<locklace>so the .1q frame is getting dropped between linux and dsl
19:15<styx>i still don't know why the dflt GW works and nothing else
19:15<styx>but if the bridges are dodgy, that may happen
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19:17<ozzle>Can I run debian live from a USB-stick?
19:17<babilen>garazy: It might help if you remove the 'debian-security' part from the URL (
19:17<locklace>one amusing test would be to swap dsl's inside cable with one going to another eth interface on linux
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19:18<adb>ozzle, > #debian-live
19:18<babilen>!tell garazy -about oldstable security
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19:19<ozzle>adb: Thanks
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19:22<styx>locklace: anyway, thank you for your patience and help
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19:22<styx>locklace: that didn't work out - the pings failed
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19:28<rgouveia>hi ... I'm having troube loading acpi-cpufreq getting this error: FATAL: Error inserting acpi_cpufreq (/lib/modules/2.6.26-2-amd64/kernel/arch/x86/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/acpi-cpufreq.ko): No such device. I checked and the file exists. This seems to be similar to bug #489058. Any ideas?
19:31<witte>rgouveia: in the bug report they mention a newer kernel, you could try one from backports
19:31<dpkg>i heard backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and ABI complications. (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), Ask me about <> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>.
19:34<rgouveia>witte: thanks ... I'll check backports
19:36<witte>rgouveia: and you are sure that your kernel supports cpu frequency scaling?
19:37<witte>kernel ==> cpu
19:37<rgouveia>yes, I'm running with a Intel Q6600 and also it worked under Slackware 13 but that was running a recent kernel
19:37<garazy>babilen: doesn't make any difference. Still getting calls like 404 Not Found [IP: 80]
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19:38<babilen>garazy: Yes. That is expectable. The security servers package lists are fucked. Wait some time and try again. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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19:39<garazy>babilen: ok great - od you know when it will be fixed?
19:39<garazy>babilen: or at least the source of your information so I can check if it's working?
19:39<babilen>No idea. People are working on it...
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19:40<babilen>garazy: The source were some DDs that know about it.
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19:41<garazy>at least i know its not me
19:41<garazy>i guess there's no mirror for the security packages
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19:43<rgouveia>witte: found a new one on backports. Installing it ... will report back
19:43<garazy>ahh yes there is and it works
19:43<garazy>deb stable/updates main contrib non-free
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19:45<babilen>garazy: Just wait some time. It'll be fixed soon.
19:49<garazy>time is my enemy
19:49<garazy>the french have come to the rescue
19:49<garazy>thanks for your help though
19:49<garazy>its all working greating using this french mirror
19:49<garazy>peace out
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19:52<rgouveia>witte: running 2.6.30-bpo.1-amd64 but still can't load acpi-cpufreq. Any more ideas? :-)
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19:53<witte>rgouveia: not really, what error do you get?
19:53<rgouveia>witte: FATAL: Error inserting acpi_cpufreq (/lib/modules/2.6.30-bpo.1-amd64/kernel/arch/x86/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/acpi-cpufreq.ko): No such device. Again this file also exists
19:54<witte>it does not say that the file does not exist
19:54<RobL>anything up with ?
19:54<witte>it is a device that is missing
19:54<witte>RobL: apparently yes, but "they" are working on it
19:54<babilen>RobL: It is having problems at the moment. Be patient.
19:54<RobL>am trying to update a brand new lenny netinst install which all went fine and then...
19:55<RobL>Err lenny/updates/main linux-image-2.6.26-2-amd64 2.6.26-19lenny1
19:55<RobL>404 Not Found [IP: 80]
19:55<streuner>yes, we know about
19:55<RobL>okay thanks.
19:55<RobL>saves me tearing my hair out any more :)
19:55<babilen>RobL: Known problem, not yet fixed. People are converting coffee to working servers right now.
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19:56<rgouveia>witte: I tried Slackware 13 32bit with the default kernel: The only difference is that I'm now running 64bit. I suppose that could change things...
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20:11<witte>rgouveia: yeah, could be. I just don't know enough of such things to know which devices should be created or which are used by that module
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20:13<rgouveia>witte: thanks though :-)
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21:09<styx>q: how to set ulimits permanent in debian?
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21:12<sasuke>soy nuevo por estos rumbos
21:12<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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21:13<Guest313>que onda boludos
21:14<icebrain>I have run debootstrap of lenny to a flash drive, but I can't chroot to it. It says /bin/bash: no such file, but bash is there, and I can run it if I don't chroot
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21:23<valdyn>icebrain: where exactly is that bash?
21:23<icebrain>in /media/sdc/bin/bash, and I'm doing chroot /media/sdc/
21:23<icebrain>but nvm, I found the problem: missing libraries
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21:24<icebrain>I've run ldd bash and some of the libraries and symlinks are not in /media/sdc/lib/
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21:25<icebrain>I've created the symlinks, but I "guessed" in some cases, so now bash segfaults xD Why didn't it install the required libs?
21:25<icebrain>*it* as in debootstrap
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21:27<edbian>I'm trying to run a windows executable version of prolog in dosbox. What I run it I get a string of gibberish. Is the file corrupt? Do I need WINE?
21:28<GhostlyDeath>edbian: DOSBox can't run Windows Apps
21:28<edbian>GhostlyDeath: So I need WINE and dosbox?
21:28<GhostlyDeath>You trying to run a DOS App?
21:28<GhostlyDeath>or a Windows App?
21:28<edbian>GhostlyDeath: I thought since dosbox was a full emulator of the dos environment and this is a dos based app
21:28<GhostlyDeath>Or a Windows app in a console window?
21:28<edbian>GhostlyDeath: dos app
21:28<GhostlyDeath>Then you would use DOSBox
21:29<GhostlyDeath>edbian: what does the string say?
21:29<edbian>GhostlyDeath: Characters that I can't type.
21:29<kenyon>edbian: there are 2 prolog compilers in the repositories, why are you running a DOS version?
21:29<GhostlyDeath>edbian: What language does your computer use?
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21:29<edbian>kenyon: It was the version given to me by a professor for a class.
21:29<edbian>GhostlyDeath: English. Sorry but I'm not sure about the details of that
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21:30<kenyon>edbian: try your code with swi-prolog, I used that for a class
21:30<GhostlyDeath>DOS had no real internationalization, so it may be codepage issues
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21:30<edbian>The string goes something like this: Omega, open square bracket, smiley face, smiley face, u, club I could screen shot for you put dosbox doesn't let me copy / paste it
21:30<edbian>kenyon: I don't have any code yet. The app won't run at all
21:30<GhostlyDeath>That would probably be corruption
21:30<edbian>kenyon: Are either of those versions a cli interpreter?
21:31<GhostlyDeath>either obtain it again, or try what kenyon suggested
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21:31<kenyon>edbian: yes, swi-prolog is
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21:31<edbian>kenyon: I'm messing around with that right now! Thank you
21:32<edbian>GhostlyDeath: IS there any way to check for sure for corruption?
21:32<GhostlyDeath>edbian: The binary should work
21:32<kenyon>edbian: standard prolog code should run just fine on swi-prolog, no need for windows junk
21:32<GhostlyDeath>unless it uses some hack to mess with windows
21:32<GhostlyDeath>i.e. Win95 or Win98
21:33<edbian>GhostlyDeath: It is rather old. I thought it was for xp but it is possible that it is for windows 98
21:34<edbian>Thanks for the help everybody. I'm using swi-prolog. It is working just fine and appears to be the exact same thing for my purposes
21:34<GhostlyDeath>have fun
21:34<edbian>GhostlyDeath: I'll try! Logical programming is a "Strange New World" to me
21:34<GhostlyDeath>I think of nothing except logic
21:34<kenyon>right, there should be nothing OS specific about prolog you learn in class
21:36<GhostlyDeath>Never heard of prolog until 10 minutes ago
21:37<adb>!tell GhostlyDeath -about prolog
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21:37<GhostlyDeath>They also dig C programmers
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21:49<edbian>Maybe you guys can help me with swi-prolog. I can't seem to get out of the consult(user). mode once I've entered it! :(
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23:40<Gun_Smoke>problems with ?
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23:41<norbert_>hi, a friend showed me how useful mouse gestures are in Windows; can I enable them in Debian?
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---Logclosed Sun Nov 01 00:00:03 2009