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#debian IRC Logs for 2009-11-16

---Logopened Mon Nov 16 00:00:15 2009
00:00<faheem>then Ubuntu comes along, and all of a sudden they are the hottest thing since the Beatles or something
00:01<faheem>siskulous: well, yes, they are contributing to free software, i'm not suggesting they are the enemy or anything
00:01<faheem>just how bizaare the whole thing is
00:02<faheem>bizarre, sorry
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00:03<siskulous>Didn't think you were :-). Marketing is a good thing.
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00:05<int_80h>my problem with ubuntu is it does too many things without explanation. try right click -> share folder. it will install what's necessary to achieve this without prompting you to verify dependencies. this, on an older system, can result in a full system update.
00:05<int_80h>which is not real acceptable as a result of the action taken
00:06<faheem>int_80h: what 'share folder' is this?
00:06*siskulous cheers because the new radeonhd driver FINALLY supports his mobile card.
00:08<int_80h>to share on the network, either via nfs or smb
00:09<faheem>int_80h: you mean it installs samba if it needs it (for example) without asking you?
00:10<int_80h>no, it doesn't prompt you for the dependencies thereof, which can be numerous if your system is out of date
00:10<int_80h>the mentality of making things easier for users at the expense of not educating them is a doomed one, imo
00:10<int_80h>the 'philosophy', if you will
00:10<faheem>int_80h: there is always a tradeoff
00:10<int_80h>but this is perhaps not a place for philosophical discussion
00:11<faheem>OS's that are insanely manual are too much work
00:11<faheem>int_80h: don't see why not
00:11<int_80h>debian can be 'insanely manual', depending on how you go about it (:
00:11<siskulous>Unfortunately their target audience would probably be overwhelmed if they were presented with a list of dependancies for certain packages. They are, after all, aiming at people like the stereotypical grandmother who barely knows hwo to turn the computer on.
00:11<int_80h>redhat was for years (pre-satellite) imo
00:12<faheem>int_80h: not really. apt and its brethen has changed the face of computing
00:12<faheem>debian is actually pretty much semi-automated
00:13<int_80h>faheem, do you use debian in a professional capacity? if so, how many machines do you manage?
00:13<faheem>contrast windows, for example
00:13<faheem>int_80h: depends what you mean by professional :-)
00:13<int_80h>i think it is perhaps a bit shortsighted to claim debian has revolutionised anything. none of the debian quirks are unique to it that i am aware of
00:13<faheem>i have root on maybe 5-10 machines on any given time. it varies a lot
00:14<faheem>i don't do sysadmin stuff professionally, but as necessary, if nobody else is available
00:14<faheem>i'm sure that is the case with lots of people here
00:14<int_80h>ok...i have managed 20 debian machines at the most, as it's not too popular in the enterprise. but i manage over 500 linux machines and over 1,000 solaris machines regularly
00:14<int_80h>and speaking purely from my personal experience, debian has not made a large impact on the enterprise
00:14<faheem>int_80h: that's a lot
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00:15<faheem>int_80h: i was talking about automated dependency checking
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00:15<faheem>never sure what people mean by enterprise
00:16<faheem>it was new with debian, to the best of my knowledge
00:18<siskulous>Enterprise=business environment. Businesses don't like Debian in my experience. If they go with Linux they want something with corporate backing. Where I work that means SUSE or Red Hat, since those are the only distros on both IBM's and Cisco's approved lists.
00:18<int_80h>that is a succinct and accurate explanation, siskulous
00:19<faheem>siskulous: true in the US. where are you guys located?
00:19<int_80h>IT managers can rarely get buy-in for a given distro not on support lists, because the cost of management goes up
00:19<faheem>that description is certainly true of my local environment - Duke University, Durham, NC, US
00:19<int_80h>It's true of mine -- BAC, US
00:19<faheem>Debian is a much bigger player in Europe, at least
00:20<int_80h>that's good to hear
00:20<faheem>possibly elsewhere, but dunno about that
00:20<faheem>i run into lots of European Debian people
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00:22<int_80h>debian is an awesome distro (: although i tend to install from source so often i've been considering going back to gentoo, just taking the Debian Way back with me hahaha
00:22<siskulous>It's kinda sad really. You'd think if you decide to get a Linux server and have one Linux geek on staff you'd want to use a distro that person is already familiar with....obviously I don't think like a CIO though.
00:23<simonrvn>s,don't,do, s,like a CIO,,
00:23<franki^>erm, i've heard it mentioned before, but what is The Debian Way?
00:23<simonrvn>franki^: context-dependent
00:24<franki^>okay, siskulous: what did you mean in this context?
00:24<simonrvn>well they do have packages now, don't they?
00:24<simonrvn>(gentoo i mean)
00:25<faheem>maybe he means quality control? :-)
00:25<franki^>they have "ebuilds", they're kind of packages i guess
00:25<simonrvn>ah there's a good uestion. i don't know their internal policies about pkgs at all
00:26<franki^>oh, sorry, i just realise i thought that siskulous mentioned the Debian Way, but it was int_80h
00:26<franki^>apologies to you both :)
00:26<simonrvn>franki^: that's where you get a tarball, some patches if any, and some sort of file to define the ebuild. a lot like ports.
00:26<siskulous>Eh, I was talking about the fact that we got two SUSE servers about a year and a half ago. I'm the only Linux geek on staff and I haven't run anything other than Debian and it's various offshoots for many many years. I'd think that being the case it would be better for them to get Debian or at least a Debian derivative to make use of my knowledge, but they'd rather be able to make a $100 tech support call to solve problems.
00:27<simonrvn>speaking of, i wanted to replace the ubuntu with debian/kfreebsd
00:27<faheem>they can be built to binary packages i think
00:27<faheem>siskulous: maybe they are afraid you might leave?
00:28<simonrvn>siskulous: yes, that's why the compliment with my sed replace. obviously, to me, that makes perfect sense, you feel wanted and appreciated, and they save some dough.
00:28<siskulous>Not this place. It's all about the company behind the software. They won't buy anything they can't get a support contract for.
00:28<simonrvn>siskulous: unfortunately that sounds very typical.
00:29<siskulous>Yeah, I know :-/ I just find it sad is all.
00:29<simonrvn>this is why i won't work at a corporate job, they only care about cash, not people, or anything else.
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00:30<int_80h>i remember reading the 'why' page on Debian/kfreebsd and being unimpressed. mostly it was 'these features get put in the kernel!'
00:30<int_80h>if you want something random or unpopular or poorly licensed, you should use it. kernel is for all (:
00:31<int_80h>but i can be pretty tetchy about linux philosophy, i guess
00:31<simonrvn>already running debian gnu/linux - and i've played with freebsd and netbsd. wouldn't be anything new to me.
00:32<siskulous>Heh....This isn't even corporate. This is a school district. The REALLY sad thing is that I just found out the place I left to work for the school district switched over to Ubuntu about a year after I left....Which is about six months after I suggested to the local manager that she mention Linux as a possible way to save money to someone up the line.
00:33<int_80h>so it goes, siskulous. won't be the last time im sure (:
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00:34<simonrvn>siskulous: however, the same concern about potential lawsuits exists
00:35<siskulous>Lawsuits? What, those patents M$ claims Linux violates? I doubt any of them would stand up in court. One, for example, is the patent on deleting a file. Any judge with half a brain will rule that one as obvious and throw it out.
00:36<faheem>siskulous: how do you like working in the school district?
00:37<simonrvn>siskulous: yes stuff like that, and other dumb things
00:37<siskulous>It's not bad. I actually get paid for working on computers, which is something of a rarity in this area, so I won't complain. I don't work in classrooms or anything. I work in the tech department, so it's really like working in the IT department for any other company for me.
00:38<faheem>siskulous: not too stressful, hopefully
00:38<simonrvn>at a school? probably not.
00:39<siskulous>Sometimes, sometimes not. August is always stressfull. When you suddenly go from maybe 100 users to 10000 and half of them have forgotten how to use a computer over the summer you're bound to have some stress.
00:39<simonrvn>true that
00:39*simonrvn shuts up now
00:40<faheem>siskulous: oh, you are on the front lines? :-)
00:41<faheem>the battle for computer literacy starts now!
00:41<siskulous>Not really, but I sometimes wonder how some of our 'front line' people got their jobs.
00:42<faheem>siskulous: :-)
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00:47<m3onh0x84>what is fastest protocol : google SPDY or http ?
00:47<siskulous>Note to self: When running on battery, you have to either set up some kind of battery level warning or glance at the meter once in a while.....
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01:00<siskulous>What's a good program for testing graphics performance? Normally I'd use UT, but I don't feel like digging out my disc.
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01:21<sney>just stopped aptitude in the midst of trying to update from sid
01:21<sney>even though squeeze is set as the default release in apt.conf
01:21<sney>grumble grumble
01:24<sney>I'm glad I stopped it in time.
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01:27<faheem>sney: you don't use pinning?
01:27<sney>I only had the testing/unstable mix enabled because I needed one thing a few months ago
01:27<sney>I don't even remember what it was
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01:29<itsosimpo>ok i forgot, when dual booting windows/linux, i need to install windows first, right?
01:30<faheem>itsosimpo: generally best, though windows can also boot linux
01:30<jm_>well not really need to, but it will save you some trouble
01:30<itsosimpo>hm okay well windows is already installed
01:30<itsosimpo>i can just run the linux cd from boot?
01:30<faheem>well, the windows boot loader
01:30<faheem>itsosimpo: yes
01:31<faheem>the debian installer should detect windows and add a grub config line for it
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01:32<faheem>you'll need to have some spare space thogh, obviously
01:32<itsosimpo>urgh, i dled debian5.0 lenny but i didn't properly label the CD
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01:32<itsosimpo>how do i find out the architecture?
01:32<jm_>it also works afterwards with grub2 and os-prober
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01:32<itsosimpo>err if it's compatible
01:33<jm_>what kind of CPU is it?
01:33<faheem>itsosimpo: you could mount the cd i guess and look inside
01:33<gsimmons>itsosimpo: .disk/info should tell you.
01:33<itsosimpo>intel core 2 duo
01:33<jm_>then x86 or amd64 release, up to you
01:33<itsosimpo>what do i look for?
01:34<faheem>itsosimpo: dunno. some indication of the arch?
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01:35<itsosimpo>ummm there was a config file called win32-loader
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01:36<itsosimpo>butt there is also a directory titled install.amd
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01:38<itsosimpo>aha good, the docs say "This disc is labeled Debian GNU/Linux 5.0.2 "Lenny" - Official amd64 NETINST Binary
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01:45<fradb>can i get the sound module "e-mu 1820" running in debian enny
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01:48<jm_>fradb: what is that?
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01:51<fradb>its a pci sound card together with an external module.
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01:52<gsimmons>fradb: According to, it should be supported as of ALSA 1.0.14 (Lenny's 2.6.26 kernel has ALSA 1.0.16).
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01:52<jm_>do you know its PCI ID?
01:54<fradb>automatically its recognized as emu10k2
01:54<fradb>but it doesnot work
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01:55<fradb>gsimmons, thanks for the info. i will try
01:56<jm_>define doesn't work
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01:57<Supaplex>!don't work
01:57<dpkg>Look buddy, "doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions> and <errors>.
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01:58<fradb>its doing nothing
01:58<fradb>cannot get any signal out of it
01:59<dpkg>it has been said that sound is ask me about <alsa>, <install alsa>, <alsa checklist>, <alsa firmware>, <alsa versions>, <ac97>, <dmix>, <esound>, <arts>, <devdsp>, <rs>.
02:03<jm_>did you unmute it?
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02:53<Supaplex>but silence is bliss. HAH
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03:33<gsimmons>sney: itsosimpo's Toshiba Satellite A505-S6980 system appears to use a Realtek 802.11n PCI-E chipset (RTL8191SE ver.b, PCI-Id 10ec:8172). Linux 2.6.32-rc1 or later would be required for the rtl8192e staging driver.
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03:34<jm_>heh is that the one they are fighting over on lkml?
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04:11<hate29>Hi! I can't get rid of snd-pcsp as my first sound card. I've blacklisted it and it is marked as snd-pcsp index=-2 in alsa-base. Is there anything else to do?
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04:15<jm_>hate29: how did you blacklist it?
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04:16<hate29>jm_: Wrote in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist a line blacklist snd-pcsp
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04:18<rusel>how is everyone doing?
04:19<dpkg>In etch, lenny and sid, create/edit /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.local.conf and add a line similar to this (without quotes): "blacklist module_name". IMPORTANT: ask about <blacklist-initramfs>. To blacklist a module at installation time, ask me about <installer blacklist>. If this doesn't work, do 'echo "install modulename /bin/true" >> /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.local.conf'.
04:19<jm_>hate29: see the "install ... /bin/true" for how to do it
04:20<hate29>Ok. I'll try that
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04:35<shiznatix>Hello. I am having a lot of video issues where I get certain pixels turning green or pink in bars vertically on my screen. I am running the latest nvidea drivers from the repository with dual monitors. A screenshot of what is going wrong can be found here:
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04:48<jm_>shiznatix: which version of the driver?
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04:50<shiznatix>jm_, version 173.14.09
04:51<jm_>shiznatix: try the one from sid instead
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04:54<shiznatix>jm_, would that be just a package to install or is there a lot more work than that?
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04:54<jm_>shiznatix: you will need to backport it, but it's not that hard
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04:55<shiznatix>jm_, whats the package name that I am backporting?
04:56<robertf>What's the debian etch's lifetime?
04:56<robertf>i don't find the information in the documentation
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04:57<franki^>"The security team tries to support a stable distribution for about one year after the next stable distribution has been released, except when another stable distribution is released within this year. It is not possible to support three distributions; supporting two simultaneously is already difficult enough. source"
04:57<jm_>shiznatix: nvidia-graphics-drivers
04:58<franki^>oh, the word source at the end of that quote was accidental :)
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04:59<robertf>franki^> thank you
04:59<franki^>robertf: happy to help
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05:08<gotgot>hi all
05:08<shiznatix>jm_, I can't find a package for nvidia-graphics-drivers
05:09<gotgot>i have a prob ! i have a second keyboard, it works if i plug it after boot, but not if it's plugged while the system boot...
05:09<gotgot>seems to only hotplug make it works
05:09<gotgot>how to fix it ?
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05:11<jm_>shiznatix: apt-get source nvidia-graphics-drivers
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05:13<gotgot>no idea ?
05:15<jm_>gotgot: what kind of keyboard?
05:16<gotgot>dallas key reader
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05:16<gotgot>but it's handled like a keyboard
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05:17<gotgot>when i plug it after the boot (hotplug) i have in dmseg : input: AT Translated Set 2 keyboard as /class/input/input5 ... nothing else
05:18<gotgot>why does it work only if hotplugged, not if plugged before the boot ?
05:18<gotgot>hotplug would load a module, but don't know which
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05:19<jm_>ls -l /sys/class/input/input5/device/driver
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05:20<gotgot>=> /sys/class/input/input5/device/driver -> ../../../../bus/serio/drivers/atkbd/
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05:21<jm_>so it's handled by atkbd driver
05:22<gotgot>i can't load it
05:22<gotgot>if i do modprobe atkbd
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05:22<jm_>it might be built-in
05:22<Draco112358>ciao a tutto
05:22<gotgot>i get FATAL: Module atkbd not found.
05:22<gotgot>and how to load it at the boot ?
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05:27<jm_>grep ATKBD /boot/config-$(uname -r)
05:28<jm_>so it's not a module ...
05:28<gotgot>and ?
05:28<jm_>and what?
05:29<gotgot>and what does it mean exactly ?
05:29<gotgot>i can't do anything / i have to recompile / other solution ?
05:29<jm_>no it means it's already available
05:30<jm_>(you don't need to do anything)
05:31<gotgot>but if i start the system with the keyboard plugged : ls -l /sys/class/input/input5/device/driver : no file or directory.. / i plug it, ls again : /sys/class/input/input5/device/driver -> ../../../../bus/serio/drivers/atkbd/
05:31<shiznatix>jm_, I am following the tutorial from here: and after getting the source I am trying to build it with "apt-get build-dep nvidia-graphics-drivers-185.18.36" but am getting "E: Unable to find a source package for nvidia-graphics-drivers-185.18.36" error
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05:38<jm_>shiznatix: naah, download it by hand (get all three files), then unpack with dpkg-source -x nv*dsc
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05:39<jm_>so skip the download step if you already have them and use dpkg-source -x to unpack
05:39<jm_>gotgot: where do you plug it in?
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05:40<shiznatix>jm_, is my output now. Not sure what I am supposed to do next
05:41<jm_>shiznatix: cd nvidia-graphics-drivers-185.18.36
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05:41<jm_>shiznatix: did you verify it supports your card?
05:41<jm_>do that before you waste time on it
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05:42<gotgot>i plug it in the usb port
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05:44<jm_>so it's a USB device using atkbd driver? that's a new one to me
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05:44<shiznatix>jm_, how do I check for that specific driver which cards are supported?
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05:45<jm_>shiznatix: which card is it?
05:45<shiznatix>GeForce 7300 GT
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05:46<jm_>shiznatix: that will work, in genereal it's in README.txt.gz in nvidia-glx package, Appendix A
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05:47<shiznatix>jm_, aye. thanks. Should I try to make a deb out of this source now or just make, make install?
05:47<jm_>shiznatix: yeah, "debuild -uc -us -b" once you cd into the dir
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05:50<gotgot>rs232 sorry, not usb
05:50<nima0102>what port do I need to install on AMD Phenum 2 II 955 ???
05:50<jm_>nima0102: x86 or amd64, up to you - the latter is 64bit
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05:51<nima0102>thanks jm_
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05:51<shiznatix>jm_, that ran and did a million things but I can't find a deb package anywhere:
05:51<jm_>shiznatix: ls -lrt ..
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05:52<nima0102>jm_, for installing 32bit package what package need to install???
05:52<jm_>nima0102: what do you mean?
05:53<jm_>shiznatix: paste yoru build output
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05:53<nima0102>jm_, I want to install firefox 3.5 but got some error that probably related to 64 bit :(
05:54<nima0102>jm_, for example " wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64" while running firefox :(
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05:54<shiznatix>jm_, the debuild output? Its huge and already went out of the screen
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05:55<valdyn>shiznatix: the deb is at /home/shiznatix/nvidea
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05:58<jm_>nima0102: ahh hmm, probably best to install it in chroot, see also ia32-libs
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05:59<jm_>not quite sure what the status on apt multiarch support is
05:59<jm_>shiznatix: run it again, look for errors
05:59<nima0102>jm_,thanks,I am installing ia32-libs, after installing, Is there any problem for install or running 32bit programs???
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05:59<valdyn>nima0102: why dont you use the iceweasel shipped with debian?
05:59<jm_>nima0102: depends on which libs this package provides and what the tool needs
06:00<valdyn>judd: versions iceweasel
06:00<judd>valdyn: iceweasel -- etch: etch-security: lenny: 3.0.6-1 lenny-security: 3.0.6-3 squeeze: 3.0.14-1 sid: 3.5.5-1
06:00<nima0102>valdyn, judd is right.
06:01<valdyn>nima0102: i know hes right
06:01<valdyn>nima0102: that doesnt answer my question though
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06:01<shiznatix>jm_, I seam to be having dependency problems:
06:02<jm_>shiznatix: do not install that, this comes as a last step
06:02<nima0102>valdyn,because I use some extension of firefox 3.5, so I want install latest version of firefox :(
06:02<valdyn>nima0102: that extension doesnt work in 3.0 ?
06:02<jm_>shiznatix: purge nvidia-glx, and install only nvidia-kernel-source and nvidia-kernel-common that *you built*
06:03<jm_>nima0102: latest firefox? why are you asking about 2.0 then?
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06:03<jm_>nima0102: wait, nevermind I am totally confused
06:03<shiznatix>jm_, Errr. So I should apt-get remove --purge nvidia-glx?
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06:03<jm_>nima0102: I backport iceweasel 3.5 to lenny by myself
06:03<jm_>shiznatix: dpkg -P
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06:03<nima0102>valdyn, yep.some extensions needs to 3.5 later :(
06:03<shiznatix>jm_, but won't that install the graphic driver I currently have installed?
06:04<dpkg>First: See if the package has already been backported. Ask me about <backports>. If it hasn't, 1) Add ONLY a "deb-src ..." line for sid to your sources.list. 2) apt-get update 3) apt-get install build-essential; apt-get build-dep packagename;apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. If you are just wanting to change the compilation options, ask me about <package recompile>, or see <uupdate> if sid is too old
06:04<jm_>shiznatix: yes, but you will eventually need to do it
06:04<valdyn>nima0102: you should only need ia32-libs to run upstream 32-bit firefox
06:04<jm_>shiznatix: you can leave it as it is, but now you need to build nvidia kernel module
06:05<shiznatix>jm_, alright, how do I go about doing that?
06:05<jm_>shiznatix: m-a a-i nvidia
06:05<nima0102>jm_,what differences is there between iceweasel with firefox ??
06:05<valdyn>nima0102: the name
06:06<nima0102>valdyn, copy right and license ???
06:06<jm_>nima0102: /msg dpkg why iceweasel
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06:09<shiznatix>jm_, that command dies and the contents of the log file are:
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06:13<jm_>shiznatix: try rm -rf /usr/src/modules/nvidia-kernel/*
06:13<jm_>or maybe rename the dir only
06:14<peej>what should I use to block flash for iceweasel?
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06:14<shiznatix>jm_, removing it all and doing the m-a command worked. Should I go ahead and run the "m-a install nvidia-kernel-source" command?
06:14<peej>I'm considering flashblock (just gotta figure out where to get it from still)
06:15<jm_>shiznatix: no, do you have nvidia kernel module 185 installed now? dpkg -l|grep nvidia
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06:15<jm_>peej: noscript can also block flash
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06:15<peej>any preference?
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06:16<jm_>shiznatix: now reinstall nvidia-glx
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06:16<jm_>wait just run dpkg --pending --configure
06:16<jm_>that shall do it
06:16<jm_>it's in state iU
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06:17<peej>(installs mozilla-noscript)
06:17<jm_>shiznatix: you're all set
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06:18<jm_>peej: not sure about debian package, I use the one from add-ons page
06:18<shiznatix>jm_, thats it? Just restart and it should be using the 185.18.36-2 driver?
06:18<jm_>shiznatix: yeah restart X server
06:18<peej>jm, you happy with it?
06:19<jm_>peej: yes
06:19<shiznatix>jm_, roger. will do now
06:19<peej>also, can you confirm it is noscript (not flashblock) you are using?
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06:19<jm_>yup, I uninstalled flashblock when it got this feature
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06:23<peej>I'm trying out the the lenny package version mozilla-noscript (
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06:24<shiznatix>jm_: Hey, well when I logged out and went to log back in x is saying that it cant find a properly configured screen
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06:25<jm_>shiznatix: check x logfile
06:25<shiznatix>jm_: where would that be located
06:25<jm_>shiznatix: /var/log/Xorg.0.log usually
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06:26<jm_>shiznatix: did you unload old and loaded new kernel module?
06:26<shiznatix>jm_: the last lines there say "(EE) Screen(s) found, but none have a usable configuration." then fatal server error: no screens found
06:27<shiznatix>jm_: I don't think so since I don't know how to do that
06:27<jm_>shiznatix: rmmod/modprobe
06:27<shiznatix>jm_: I didn't use either of those commands. What would I modprobe for this? nvidia?
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06:28<jm_>shiznatix: indeed
06:29<shiznatix>jm_: ok, I did modprobe nvidia and no output or error so I am guessing that went well. Should I just reboot now?
06:30<jm_>shiznatix: did you rmmod before that?
06:30<shiznatix>jm_: negative. should I rmmod nvidia then modprobe nvidia?
06:30<jm_>shiznatix: yes
06:30<anonissimus>I know this isn't the best place to ask, but is there anyone around who stil has some dos knowledge
06:30<shiznatix>jm_: roger
06:30<jm_>@echo off
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06:32<shiznatix>jm_: err well I had already restarted my computer before I did the rmmod and then redo the modprobe but after the restart everything seams to be ok. I checked nvidia-settings and the version we just installed is said to be running so I think all is well
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06:34<peej>cool. I've reclaimed my browser with noscript.
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06:37<zeroXten>does debian do any sort of PAM caching? I've commented out kerberos stuff in /etc/common-* but I can still authenticate using my TGT.
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06:38<jm_>you mean /etc/pam.d/common-*?
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06:40<zeroXten>jm_: yeah sorry, typo
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06:41<jm_>zeroXten: how do you login?
06:41<jm_>tried restartinh sshd?
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06:42<zeroXten>just did.. no difference. /var/log/auth.log still makes clear references to the krb5 principal being used
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06:47<jm_>zeroXten: did you verify if you're using PAM in sshd?
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06:49<zeroXten>hmm, good point
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06:51<zeroXten>that might have changed to get SSO working =(
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06:54<zeroXten>cheers jm_
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06:54<jm_>zeroXten: no worries
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07:07<shipleythump>real quick question... I'm kinda new to Debian based linux, I'm use to Gentoo, so this is going to sound stupid... How do I know which distro I'm using of Debian? i.e. sarge, sid, blah blah blah??
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07:08<valdyn>shipleythump: cat /etc/debian_version
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07:08<shipleythump>valdyn, thanks
07:08<Nemoder>shipleythump: also check /etc/apt/sources.list
07:08<valdyn>shipleythump: theres no longer a fixed distro once you start mixing
07:08<shipleythump>Nemoder, I'm working on my sources.list.. it's BT4 that I"m running, it didn't say what i'm running
07:09<shipleythump>valdyn, okay.. so it doesn't matter which I choose?
07:09<jm_>shipleythump: also verify via libc6 versions
07:09<valdyn>shipleythump: it does, you cant downgrade
07:09<shipleythump>I'm running BT4
07:09<valdyn>shipleythump: mixing is not recommended, but people do it anyway, so this is just a warning that debian_version can easily be made useless by you
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07:10<shipleythump>mine says lenny/sid
07:10<valdyn>shipleythump: what is bt4?
07:10<shipleythump>does that mean it's already mixed
07:10<valdyn>shipleythump: another debian based distro?
07:10<valdyn>shipleythump: bt4 is not debian at all
07:10<shipleythump>BackTrack linux, from remote exploit. I'm in internet security
07:10<shipleythump>yeah it is
07:11<dpkg>BackTrack is a Linux distribution based on <Ubuntu> Intrepid (as of BackTrack 4), previously <SLAX>. Derived from merging two penetration-testing distributions: WHAX (formerly WHOPPIX) and Auditor Security Linux. It is not supported in #debian. #remote-exploit on See also <based on debian>.
07:11<dpkg>BackTrack is a Linux distribution based on <Ubuntu> Intrepid (as of BackTrack 4), previously <SLAX>. Derived from merging two penetration-testing distributions: WHAX (formerly WHOPPIX) and Auditor Security Linux. It is not supported in #debian. #remote-exploit on See also <based on debian>.
07:11<shipleythump>"See also <based on debian>."
07:11<themill>!based on debian
07:11<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it probably falls short of Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. If your distribution has an IRC channel, you can use it instead. Even if your distribution has fewer people in its IRC channel, or doesn't have one, support for distributions other than Debian is off-topic on #debian.
07:11<themill>shipleythump: ^^ yes, you should
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07:12<shipleythump>sorry. I didn't know it was taboo to talk about it in here...
07:12<valdyn>shipleythump: its useless
07:12<shipleythump>I was just curious how to find which ones I need... Not for my purposes
07:12<themill>shipleythump: we can't keep pace with the hundreds of derivatives of derivates
07:12<valdyn>shipleythump: its a different distro, debian_version containing lenny/sid does not even exist in debian
07:12<shipleythump>valdyn, ah... but they will work though..
07:13<valdyn>shipleythump: "they?"
07:13<shipleythump>meaning if I get things slated for lenny and sid
07:13<valdyn>shipleythump: sid and lenny is a huge difference already, you couldnt mix those
07:13<shipleythump>those repos will work
07:13<valdyn>shipleythump: no
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07:13<shipleythump>valdyn, :(
07:13<shipleythump>so basically I'm SOL
07:14<shipleythump>what's a good deb linux then that I can test network security with?
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07:14<shipleythump>I've got a network set up in my house, and I'm practicing penetration on it. If I know how to do that, then I know how to stop it
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07:16<shipleythump>aha "Now based on Debian core packages and utilizing the Ubuntu software
07:16<shipleythump>repositories, BackTrack 4 can be upgraded in case of update."
07:17<shipleythump>so I need Ubuntu, not Debian... thanks guys/gals, sorry to disturb
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07:17<jason_>does anyone know how to alter the positioning of a print with cups?? on mine the whole page is a couple of cm low and so prints off the bottom of the page
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07:17<jm_>jason_: no not anyone does
07:18<jm_>but CUPS has margin settings, see if changing those helps
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07:25<gabriel>how do i revert build-dep changes?
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07:26<leo>hi, how do i remove grub completely?
07:27<leo>aptitude remove grub2?
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07:28<leo>i realise my system will be unbootable but i don't mind
07:28<leo>or even if there were a way to restore grub legacy that would be okay
07:29<leo>my situation is i've installed debian squeeze and it installed grub 2 so i don't know if i can use the lenny dvds to repair - can i?
07:30<peej>how do I fix "WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!"
07:30<peej>in an apt-get
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07:31<jm_>peej: install relevant keyring package(s)
07:32<jm_>leo: why don't you want to use grub2?
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07:33<leo>it doesn't boot vista
07:33<leo>it detected it and setup a menuentry for it
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07:33<leo>but when i boot i get GRUB _ (blinking curser)
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07:34<leo>advice on how to revert back to grub 1 would probably be a smarter question
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07:37<jm_>well install grub-legacy then
07:38<leo>thanks jm_, then aptitude remove grub?
07:39<leo>ah, it auto asks to remove grub-pc
07:39<jm_>leo: install grub-legacy will remove it
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07:42<leo>is there a way to auto configure the legacy grub to find windows?
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07:43<themill>!dual boot guide
07:43<dpkg>A guide for setting up dual booting with various combinations of linux, xp and vista can be found at . The guide covers both windows and linux being installed first on the machine. Also ask me about <fixmbr>. See for an ISO image to help fix up GRUB problems.
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07:44<leo>thanks themill
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07:45<jm_>leo: no, but windows is a mattaer of a single chainload line
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07:45<jm_>that's where grub2 is much better
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07:45<leo>except that it didn't even work
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07:46<dangerx89> /msg NoNSoLoWii|CiNe|001 XDCC SEND #28
07:46<peej>Does any keyring package has the key to authenticate sudo in lenny? I've tried debian-keyring debian-maintainers debian-archive-keyring
07:47<leo>sorry jm_ don't mean to take it out on you, just frustrated with the lack of support for grub2
07:47<jm_>try running apt-get update if it complains about missing keys
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07:47<peej>or should I just whistle innocently and install sudo despite the authentication warning?
07:47<leo>asked for hours in the grub room got nothing
07:47<jm_>leo: did you verify grub.cfg that it created?
07:48<leo>is there a verify command?
07:48<jm_>no, I mean verify by hand, if it looks sane etc.
07:48<leo>i mean - the grub 2 worked in that it eventually picked up vista loader using the osprober
07:49<leo>but all i got was GRUB and a blinking underscore
07:49<leo>once i boot into vista
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07:50<leo>and plus i don't know how to change the config file because it's all controlled by complex scripts that have even more complex manuals
07:50<jm_>did it insert the correct chainload line?
07:50<leo>chainloader +1 ?
07:50<jm_>yes, but it also matters which device it's supposed to read that from
07:50<fanto666>peej check apt-cache policy sudo if you really try getting it from debian archive
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07:51<leo>yes i saw it was using the same partition number that fdisk showed as my windows boot
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07:51<jm_>so set root=(hd0,2) ?
07:52<jm_>and grub2 fails to boot vista with that while grub 1 with the same chainload works?
07:52<leo>haven't setup the grub 1 yet
07:52<leo>but it did work on lenny before
07:53<jm_>my feeling is the problem is not in grub2, but verify to be sure
07:53<peej>fanto666, what does policy have to do with the verification key? (this is the official lenny sudo version on pure lenny)
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07:54<peej>oh, ok. Yeah, it's from lenny/main Packages according to policy
07:54<leo>i don't know what else to change in the grub2 loading screen - should i delete all the uuid = 23b20a1083 fs stuff?
07:54<jm_>naah, just rty booting it with grub1
07:55<leo>ok brb
07:55<peej>fanto666, so that means I should trust it if I trust
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07:57<themill>peej: can you pastebin the output of "aptitude update; apt-key list ; aptitude install sudo"
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08:01<fanto666>peej: precisely, check if it's official lenny sudo
08:01<fanto666>or try other mirror if it changes
08:02<fanto666>peej: are you upgrading from etch?
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08:04<peej>no, this was a straight net install, with minimal stuff. I'm pastebinning the result of aptitude update; apt-key list ; aptitude install sudo in a moment
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08:04<leo>i did the aptitude install grub-legacy but grub 2 is still in control :(
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08:06<leo>thanks Yoda
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08:06<leo>i got command not found
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08:07<Yoda`Taff>ow, misread
08:07<Yoda`Taff>are you trying to re-setup grub (and not grub2) ?
08:07<jm_>it's update-grub for grub 1
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08:08<leo>yes thanks
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08:10<leo>i can't find my menu.lst file
08:11<crazyb0y>leo: it's renamed by grub2 =)
08:11<Titan8990>leo, /boot/grub/menu.lst or /boot/grub.cfg for grub2
08:11<crazyb0y>leo: menu.lst_backup_by_grub2_postinst
08:11<peej>themill, fanto666, - the problem seems to be in apt-get (which is deprecated, right?)
08:12<themill>peej: no, it's likely that the mirror was just temporarily in an inconsistent state and re-running "update" sorted things out.
08:13<leo>nope i think it's gone
08:13<crazyb0y>leo: it's renamed to menu.lst_backup_by_grub2_postinst by grub2
08:13<leo>pls someone tell me how to rid myself of this grubs
08:13<crazyb0y>leo: in /boot/grub
08:15<leo>if i remove grub.cfg will that stop grub from appearing at startup?
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08:15<Yoda`Taff>leo why are you trying to go back to grub ?
08:15<leo>because my vista won't boot
08:16<crazyb0y>Yoda`Taff: in testing (squeeze) there are few problems with grub2 =) i did it too =)
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08:16<Yoda`Taff>configure grub2 to be able to boot on vista
08:16<leo>i have
08:16<leo>using os-prober
08:16<Yoda`Taff>I managed to make it boot on xp, not tested on vista
08:16<leo>all i get is Grub (blinking cursor)
08:16<leo>i mean GRUB
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08:17<crazyb0y>leo: pastebin your grub.cfg
08:17<leo>i tried to repair vista just before but it reckons the MBR is missing and the OS boots fine - which it doesn't
08:17<leo>because grub has taken over
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08:20<Lillymon>I'm back to trying to record webcam video on Linux now, and it's going as it usually does. Cheese crashes, citing either an assertion or fatal IO error. VLC can't find x264, can't find the camera's microphone, and records at a ludicrously fast framerate.
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08:20<Lillymon>Haven't tested anything else yet. MEncoder may do well, though I'd have to familiarize myself with the command-line arguments first.
08:22<peej>themill, plausible, since an apt-get reinstall gave no warning this time.
08:22<leo>is it possible to have a grub legacy entry under the grub2 menu, that ultimately boots correctly into vista?
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08:22<themill>peej: likely, in fact. There is work going on for squeeze and squeeze+1 so that this won't be a problem.
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08:23<crazyb0y>leo: grub1 boots correct your vista ?
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08:23<leo>i don't know about squeeze - but in lenny it did
08:23<leo>and i don't know how to get grub1 into grub2 anyway
08:23<crazyb0y>leo: then use grub1 instead of grub2
08:24<leo>that's what i'm trying to do, but i don't know how to
08:24<leo>grub 2 seems here to stay
08:24<leo>or do i go aptitude remove grub2?
08:24<leo>or just grub?
08:24<leo>i mean grub.cfg?
08:25<crazyb0y>leo: aptitude remove grub-pc grub-common ; aptitude install grub
08:25<leo>ok thanks crazyb0y
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08:25<jm_>you need to install grub1 first with install-grub
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08:25<jm_>uhm grub-install
08:25<leo>can i use lenny dvd to do that?
08:26<jm_>!tell leo -about fixmbr
08:27<crazyb0y>jm_: can you help me with migrating to dependency-based boot system
08:29<jm_>crazyb0y: as in upstart?
08:31<crazyb0y>jm_: i dunno how to set correct LSB tags
08:32<leo>i just had a thought about why my grub 2 failed so bad - could it be that i installed grub to sda instead of hda?
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08:32<tonyxubuntu>nto mazzu
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08:32<tonyxubuntu>nto maxxu
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08:33<jm_>crazyb0y: hmm not off top of my head, why not look at other scripts that provide them and adjust stuff?
08:34<leo>well - not failed soo bad, but failed enough that linux worked and vista didn't
08:35<jm_>leo: probably not
08:35<leo>but when you install grub you usually pick hda right?
08:36<leo>last step of the grub install is "update-grub && grub-install /dev/hda"
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08:36<leo>or should i change that to sda?
08:36<jm_>you mean what dpkg told you to do?
08:36<jm_>yes, adjust for your setup
08:37<leo>thanks jm_
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08:38<themill>dpkg, missing lsb tags is <reply> From squeeze onwards, Debian is using a dependency-based boot sequence. This requires that all init scripts have appropriate headers in them so that the correct order of execution can be determined. Scripts like S25libdevmapper1.02 are left over from Sarge and can be deleted; your own scripts will need LSB headers added:
08:38<dpkg>okay, themill
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08:40*zeroXten cries
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08:41<crazyb0y>themill: yes it works =) , thanks
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08:41<jm_>crazyb0y: now you can submit bugs & patches ;)
08:41<zeroXten>so.. debian lenny, ssh, pam and ldap... i'm guessing the primary config file is /etc/pam_ldap.conf right?
08:42<crazyb0y>jm_: hehe 1st bug is that when you migrate to it, there's no script to change the old scripts to new scripts with correct tags
08:42<jm_>crazyb0y: yeah there's unlikely to be such a script, it's not a trivial problem to solve
08:43<themill>crazyb0y: all debian's scripts have been changed over the last few years. It's impossible to do automatically though.
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08:44<crazyb0y>2nd is that there are few problems with non-purged packages
08:44<themill>that, and init scripts that are left over as conf-files but not needed any more
08:45<crazyb0y>my mistake was, i did a full-upgrade (testing) to a produce server
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08:46<jm_>I thought this is only true for new installs, not for existing ones
08:46<crazyb0y>jm_: ope
08:47<crazyb0y>it tried to migrate after aptitude safe-upgrade
08:47<themill>crazyb0y: perhaps "reportbug release-notes" to note down these observations about locally produced init scripts and unpurged packages so that information about this makes it into the squeeze release notes.
08:49<crazyb0y>i will see if everything is ok this night after midnight, becauce i can't reboot this server now
08:51<erin>hey peeps how can i raw copy a dvd to my hd its a video disc, but its broken and i cant get it copy any ways
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08:52<Nemoder>erin: try dd_rescue
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08:55<erin>there we go diff syntax
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08:56<erin>ya know i say dvds is a sucky format to put movies on they scratch and mess up so easy, and then ou cant copy them
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08:57<mib_cqszcdwy>better a hard copy than a digital copy I say.
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09:02<Nemoder>erin: it may be an urban legend but I hear toothpaste can fix scratches
09:02<zeroXten>evil evil nslcd
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09:10<robertf>[Debian etch] / I installed libflash-mozplugin / i can't watch videos at youtube
09:11<jm_>which version of flash plugin do you have installed? "about:plugins" in browser
09:11<themill>robertf: you probably need the non-free flash for that rather than that one. In etch, you can only get flash 9 not flash 10 anyway.
09:11<jm_>ahh forget about it, that's a free flash plugin :)
09:12<jm_>just checked
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09:12<themill>judd info libflash-mozplugin --release etch
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09:12<judd>themill: libflash-mozplugin (web): is optional; Version: 0.4.13-8; Size: 13.7k; Installed: 100k -- GPL Flash (SWF) Library - Mozilla-compatible plugin
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09:12<jm_>I wish rmadison showed the one liner
09:13<jm_>(one line description that is)
09:13*themill hugs judd
09:14<CuBe0wL>hi all! I'd like to file a bug report, but I'm not sure where to send it. My problem is with imagej and KDE4, both installed from testing repo. It seems, imagej crashes ocassionaly while compositing is enabled, rendering my desktop like this:
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09:14<CuBe0wL>where should I send this report ?
09:14<dpkg>Bug Tracking System for Debian packages, or to go directly to the bug page for a particular package/bug, try or . aptitude install reportbug, and check out <querybts> too. Users of unstable and testing are required to check the BTS. Useful for unstable and testing: aptitude install apt-listbugs apt-listchanges
09:14<jm_>CuBe0wL: try asking in #debian-kde too
09:14<CuBe0wL>jm_, I've already done
09:15<Titan8990>CuBe0wL, are you mixing stable and testing?
09:15<CuBe0wL>well, at least not in this case
09:15<CuBe0wL>only for amarok
09:15<themill>CuBe0wL: can you try this with a different windows manager? Or on different hardware? Being able to rule something out ahd check reproducibility would help
09:15<robertf>themill> i downloaded from adobe's website the .tar.gz.. Where sould i copy the to?
09:16<CuBe0wL>one thing is for sure: the tearing only happens when compositing is enabled
09:16<CuBe0wL>if I turn that off, this doesn't happen
09:16<themill>robertf: presumably you've downloaded flash10 though. That won't work with etch.
09:16<jm_>robertf: ~/.mozilla/plugins
09:16<themill>dpkg: tell robertf about adobe flash
09:16<Titan8990>CuBe0wL, whats the output of update-alternatives --list opengl?
09:17<CuBe0wL>update-alternatives: error: no alternatives for opengl.
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09:17<jm_>robertf: but like themill says, it needs newer libraries than what etch has
09:17<Titan8990>CuBe0wL, what driver are you using?
09:17<leo>i'm nearly there i think - just need to specify the fs type as ntfs - how to do this in grub 1 please?
09:18<CuBe0wL>Titan8990, from
09:18<CuBe0wL>version number... a second
09:18<Titan8990>CuBe0wL, uhh, you didn't follow the debian method?
09:18<jm_>leo: you can't, you need to use rootnoverify
09:18<leo>ok thanks
09:18<CuBe0wL>well, I wasn't sure about wich package to install
09:19<Titan8990>CuBe0wL, you should have read the guide....
09:19<dpkg>To use an NVIDIA graphics card with Debian, see If you've done it before, asking me about <nvidia pre-built> or <nvidia m-a> might work. Testing users: ask me about <nvidia squeeze>. Installing directly from (i.e. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia (
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09:19<Titan8990>CuBe0wL, you have to be sure that you have done everything properly prior to filing a bug report
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09:20<CuBe0wL>ok. I'll install from repo, and I'll report back when the tearing happens with that
09:20<CuBe0wL>but first: how can I backtrace that?
09:21<CuBe0wL>see, when the tearing happens, I can only do ctrl+alt+backspace
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09:22<CuBe0wL>I can live without compositing for that time while I'm working with imagej though
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09:23<leo>ok i've discovered what my vista not booting problem is i think
09:23<robertf>thank you for you help
09:24<leo>when i installed grub 2 i chose all partitions so vista bootloader probably got overwritten at that stage
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09:24<leo>how do i get the vista bootloader restored?
09:25<Txt_file>I wanted to install apache2 with PHP and found a little problem. libapache2-mod-php5 depends on apache2-mpm-prefork. But I don't want to use the prefork-version. I want to use apache2-mpm-worker. So why does libapache2-mod-php5 depend on apache2-mpm-prefork?
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09:26<Txt_file>leo: you need the vista-install-cd .. it has some tools on it
09:26<Yoda`Taff>because php is not thread safe and worker needs to have dependances thread safe
09:26<leo>i have
09:26<leo>but the only tool i know how to use is diskpart
09:27<CuBe0wL>Titan8990, what if I'm using 2.6.26 ?
09:27<Txt_file>Yoda`Taff: damn ... but thank you
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09:27<CuBe0wL>according to the guide you've linked, I could use apt-get install nvidia-kernel${VERSION}-$(uname -r)
09:27<CuBe0wL>but that returns me that it can't find the package I'm looking for
09:28<leo>when i try to repair vista automatically it first went the mbr is missing, then the next time it goes no problems here
09:28<CuBe0wL>which reminds me that maybe that's the reason why I haven't done it the debian way
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09:28<Txt_file>leo: ok .. and some special-bootloader option isn't there?
09:28<CuBe0wL>I might have rang the bell too early
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09:30<Txt_file>leo: then I don't knoe ... then there is just some search-engine-unsing
09:30<leo>thanks Txt_file i found a good site here
09:31<Titan8990>CuBe0wL, uhh, i don't know what your reading but its: m-a auto-install nvidia-kernel${VERSION}-source
09:31<Txt_file>leo: np
09:32<Titan8990>CuBe0wL, i see now, no, you want the m-a install
09:32<CuBe0wL>Titan8990, well, I'm looking now the kernel packages from testing. It seems there's also a new kernel package out there
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09:32<Titan8990>CuBe0wL, are you running testing or stable?
09:33<Titan8990>CuBe0wL, with 2.6.26 kernel?
09:33<CuBe0wL>I haven't updated my kernel for a long time
09:33<Titan8990>CuBe0wL, but thats a lenny kernel, pastebin /etc/apt/sources.list
09:35<CuBe0wL>in the past few months, I've never done apt-get dist-upgrade, only update
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09:35<Titan8990>CuBe0wL, you upgraded from etch to squeeze? and what with all the bad sources thats commented?
09:36<Titan8990>CuBe0wL, update does not change your packages at all. and you should be using aptitude
09:36<CuBe0wL>I've used stable netinstall almost a year ago, and when the base system was installed, I've dist-upgraded to testing
09:38<Titan8990>CuBe0wL, it sounds like you never fully upgraded from lenny
09:38<Titan8990>CuBe0wL, unless you pinned or held your kernel
09:38<CuBe0wL>I've ner done that
09:39<CuBe0wL>fyi I have two kernel images installed, 2.6.24-etchnhalf.1 and 2.6.26-1
09:39<Titan8990>CuBe0wL, you should do an `aptitude full-upgrade` to finish upgrading to testing
09:39<Titan8990>CuBe0wL, uhh, thats what I thought.... you went etch -> lenny -> squeeze
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09:40<CuBe0wL>I should remove etchandhalf anyway, it doesn't even boot
09:41<CuBe0wL>Titan8990, ok. I've set hold for amarok and amarok-common, and I'll do that full-upgrade as you've said
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09:49<CuBe0wL>brb (I hope ;) )
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10:39<beppe>hi all! can someones say how to hear sound in vlc, in skype, when i use jackd? thanks
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11:11<locklace>!pie bja
11:11*dpkg hits bja in the face with a cream pie
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11:14<Dick-van-Dijk>english spelling or german inside
11:14<sney>english here
11:14<dpkg>The language of #debian is English. We will do our best to help you regardless of your level of English but you might be more comfortable asking for help in your own language. Ask me about your language code for more information, for example /msg dpkg br ; /msg dpkg pt ; /msg dpkg es ; /msg dpkg fr ; /msg dpkg de
11:14<dpkg>deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in (auf, oder - German speaking users please go to (on, or
11:16<dpkg>OdyX: sure thing
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11:20<iotaka>how can I remove a package that with the following "dpkg --list |grep virtualbox" start vit pc tag? (pc virtualbox-ose 1.5.4-dfsg-4)
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11:22<themill>iotaka: can you pastebin the output of "aptitude purge virtualbox-ose"
11:22-!-Dick-van-Dijk [] has left #debian [Dick van Dijk ist hölländisch und "ij" spricht man wie "ei". ;-)]
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11:25<jamesuk>I've been stupid and deleted all files in /boot on an encrypted Lenny laptop. I have no idea how I should fix, could some one give me some pointers?
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11:26<iotaka>themill: on my machine I sue apt-get
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11:27<iotaka>themill: I try command similar to this "dpkg --purge --force-depends --force-remove-reinstreq virtualbox-ose"
11:27<iotaka>without success
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11:28<stevem_>Lo, trying to install debian 5 on a Dell R210 that (either) has a broadcom netxtreme or netxtreme II or intel ethernet... I bet it's broadcom as I know intel is well supported
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11:28<stevem_>suffice to say it didn't detect it
11:29<stevem_>am I after some kind of .deb to feed it upon install?
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11:30<dpkg>[wl] Broadcom's non-free "hybrid" driver, supporting wireless LAN devices based on the BCM4311, BCM4312, BCM4321 or BCM4322 chipset; for x86 and x86-64 only. Supports the BCM4312 low-power variant (PCI-Id 14e4:4315, aka "BCM4310 USB"). To install, see . For support of other Broadcom chipsets, ask me about <b43>. See also <bcm4312>.
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11:44<themill>gsimmons: can you shed any light on the status of support for wl or b43? From freenode: [16:02] <HTT-Bird> however, the OP in 551364 is incorrect: b43 support for the BCM4312 (14e4:4315) and its LP-PHY driver is not available in 2.6.31
11:45<themill>gsimmons: It also seems that broadcom-sta isn't dead upstream and now does compile against 2.6.3x (it was only the debian package that was orphaned and so didn't compile any more)
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11:56<icio>hi ppl, anyone knows what's the problem with the chilean debian mirror ( ?
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11:57<astronut>#debian-mirrors might
11:57<icio>astronut: thnx, i'll ask there
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11:58<Lillymon>Now the time has come to upgrade nvidia-glx. I'm pretty stuck now, since I recall that the module-assistant command the wiki page gives is actually incorrect, but I can't remember what the correct command is or find it anywhere in my IRC logfiles.
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11:59<sharigan>Hey I hear your a friendly crowd of inhabitants
11:59<themill>Lillymon: squeeze?
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12:00<Lillymon>themill: Sort of. I'm on squeeze, but my kernel and nvidia-glx are from sid.
12:00<themill>Lillymon: sounds about right. "/msg dpkg nvidia squeeze" should be enough.
12:01<sharigan>I am having a hell of a time with a lacie 1tb hdd that used to preset itself just fine, but now its is olly showing 8.5 gb and a wonked partition table....
12:02<sharigan>anyone have any ideas how I can blow it away and get the full 1tb visible again?
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12:04<astronut>Lillymon: i just use m-a a-i -t nvidia
12:04<astronut>then apt-get install nvidia-glx
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12:04<themill>astronut: that won't work in squeeze.
12:04<astronut>then stop x/rmmod nvidia/modprobe nvidia/start x (this can also be accomplished w/ a reboot)
12:04<astronut>themill: ehh?
12:05<astronut>oh, is nvidia-source not in squeeze?
12:05<themill>astronut: the nvidia module in squeeze doesn't compile with the kernel in squeeze
12:05<astronut>weird, didn't know that
12:05<astronut>but he said he has them from sid
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12:06<themill>yeah, which is what "/msg dpkg nvidia squeeze" would tell you to do
12:07*astronut shrugs
12:07<astronut>my box w/ nvidia is on sid
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12:07<astronut>still sounds like an RC bug
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12:07<themill>it's because of RC bugs that you have this problem
12:08<astronut>oh, held back?
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12:08<themill>as ever
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12:08<astronut>still, if you file an RC bug on the old one, and mark it as fixed in the new one, it'll help it propogate
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12:13<Lillymon>"Current status: 0 broken [-1]" <--- That's a nice thing to see.
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12:22<stevem_>Lo, has anyone got like a prerelease Lenny-and-Half?
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12:22<stevem_>Got a really stubburn Dell R210 here that Lenny doesn't know it's RAID or Ethernet
12:22<Lillymon>Right, I'm on a terminal now because startx doesn't work.
12:23<Lillymon>It seems nvidia-glx isn't working after all.
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12:24<Lillymon>This is exactly what I thought was going to happen. I decided to follow instructions to the letter this time, or prove I'm not a damn idiot, they're just WRONG.
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12:25<themill>Lillymon: if you're going to be argumentative, then you're not going to get very far.
12:25<Lillymon>The error I can see is "Failed to initialize the NVIDIA kernel module".
12:25<Lillymon>Well I just broke X folling the instructions I go from dpkg, I'm not a happy bunny.
12:26<Lillymon>At least Scroll Lock works now.
12:26<stevem_>is etch and half likely to have better hardware support than lenny?
12:26<themill>Lillymon: who gave that error? Did you modprobe the new nvidia kernel module? Pastebinning your xorg.conf and Xorg.0.log would be handy at this stage.
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12:26<stevem_>because 4.0 r8 and a half came out after lenny?
12:26<gsimmons>themill: Yes, there is no BCM4312 LP-PHY or BCM4321/4322 support in 2.6.31's b43, the 4312 LP-PHY support was originally scheduled for 2.6.31 AFAIK. According to b43's page on Linux Wireless, initial 4312 LP-PHY support will be in 2.6.32 (see bcm4312 factoid).
12:27<themill>stevem_: no, 4.0r8 was only bug fixes. There's a 2.6.30-based installer though: /msg dpkg kmuto
12:27<gsimmons>themill: I don't believe broadcom-sta's upstream was ever dead, just irregularly updated; it will be required for a while for support of the 4321 and 4322 (802.11n) chipsets.
12:27<themill>gsimmons: but isn't in debian any more :(
12:27<Lillymon>themill: What the hell do you mean by "who gave you that error"?
12:28<themill>Lillymon: what program.
12:28<Lillymon>It's difficult for me to know that, I got it when I typed startx.
12:28<themill>where is it displayed etc.
12:28<stevem_>cool thanks themill
12:29<Lillymon>I'm beginning to think we are on two entirely different wavelengths here.
12:29<themill>Well, let me try to readjust my ESP-over-IRC antenna for you.
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12:30<Lillymon>Oh brilliant, sarcasm now. I don't understand what you're talking about when you say "where is it displayed", I have no points of refernce to determine what you mean by this.
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12:31<Lillymon>Also, I am angry now.
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12:31<themill>Lillymon: well, startx displayed it on console. This is some useful information. It could have been from the Xorg log it could have have been from when you ran modprobe... I have zero clue what exactly you have done so can't help you without you providing some assistance and clue at your end too.
12:31<Lillymon>I'm stuck without X, nothing you say makes sense to me, and I've no idea what went wrong. From what I an gather, the kernel module is still for 185 despite my compiling a new one for 190.
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12:32<Torsten>hi there
12:32<Lillymon>Why would you assume I ran modprobe?
12:33<themill>Lillymon: and I will *not* help you while you are spending more time telling us that documentation is wrong and that you are angry. We're all volunteers. If you don't like the time and effort we put into Debian, then feel free to pay someone else to help you.
12:34<Torsten>i have some i2c modules (hwmon) which uses kernel headers for compilation, now I compiled a new kernel it is working, but no I lag the actual kernel-headers. How do I get those?
12:34<Lillymon>I don't want an argument, I just want to figure out what went wrong. Though you seem to have a knack for figuring out exactly what I don't want to hear.
12:34<sney>Torsten: if you got the kernel from, then the source package you downloaded will serve as the 'headers'
12:34<sney>just make sure it's linked properly to /usr/src/linux
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12:36<Torsten>i downloaded linux- unpacked it to /usr/src/linux- and linked it to /usr/src/linux
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12:36<jamesuk>would it be possible for me to expect to be able to copy /boot from one system to another and expect the system to boot?
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12:37<Torsten>I compiled it including kernel_headers how do I access those or link it correctly?
12:38<Lillymon>I need to figure out why Debian still see the old kernel module now. I followed all of the instructions I got from dpkg, the kernel module should be correct now. But it's not.
12:41<Lillymon>I guess I'm going to have to sit here with a broken X until I figure that out.
12:41<sharigan>anyone have any ideas how I can blow it away and get the full 1tb visible again?
12:42<sharigan>I am having a hell of a time with a lacie 1tb hdd that used to present itself just fine, but now its is only showing 8.5 gb and a wonked partition table....
12:43<Torsten>i compile the hwmon drivers using "make -C /usr/src/linux-headers-`uname -r` SUBDIRS=$PWD modules" but how do I get the headers from my new build kernel?
12:43<Torsten>sorry I'm a very stupid user! :-)
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12:45<themill>sharigan: once upon a time there was a BIOS limit at 8.5GB for disks and some disks have a jumper you can set on them to pretend to only be that size for BIOSes that can't cope with larger disks. I presume you haven't done something like that.
12:46<kmap>Torsten: If you compiled with kernel_headers, there should be a package by the name linux-headers-$(uname -r)
12:46<Lillymon>Well this has been a fun excursion out of X, but I'm getting bored now.
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12:46<kmap>Lillymon: Can't you get into X with vesa, at least?
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12:47<Lillymon>Probably, I could get into X with nv if I knew how. But I'm more interesting in figuring out what upgrading nvidia-glx failed. It must be a fairly simple thing to fix, but where do I start?
12:47<Torsten>yes I have a file called "/usr/src/linux-headers-" what shall I do with this one to get the kernel headers?
12:49<kmap>Lillymon: i.e. in /etc/X11/xorg.conf, in Device, set Driver to vesa
12:49<themill>Lillymon: earlier you said "the kernel module should be correct now. But it's not." what makes you say that? Have you checked with dpkg what version of the module should be installed?
12:50<Lillymon>themill: Well I assumed when I installed the new nvidia-kernel-source, ran m-a, and saw aptitude note one broken package had been fixed, that I was done and the kernel moduel was correct.
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12:52<Lillymon>xorg confirms that it's not though. It lists my current kernel module version, and I can clearly see that it's the old version.
12:52<themill>Lillymon: right. So did you remove the kernel module and reinsert it?
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12:53<Lillymon>No, that sounds very much like the problem.
12:54<themill>As astronut said earlier, "rmmod nvidia ; modprobe nvidia"
12:55<Lillymon>bash doesn't seem to see modprobe as a valid command.
12:55<cahoot>as root?
12:55<themill>Sounds like you have a pretty screwed up path then, or you're not doing it as root.
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12:57<Lillymon>You keep forgetting that I use sudo. Still, seems I got it to work now.
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12:59<Lillymon>I'll have to remember modprobe for the next time I do this.
12:59<themill>Was I supposed to know that you use sudo? I'll have to add that to your dossier for next time. (along with working out what that has to do with the problem at hand)
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13:01<Lillymon>I'm surprised sudo isn't more widely used. I got used to it on Ubuntu, now I can't imagine Linux without it.
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13:03<shiznatix>Can someone tell or point to a current tutorial on how to get java to work on iceweasel?
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13:03<tarzeau>Lillymon: it's also used on mac os x
13:03<themill>dpkg: tell shiznatix about install java
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13:03<Torsten>did they change i2c module rivers from 2.6.18 to 2.6.31 ?
13:03<softhome>hi, i'm planning to do raid5 using 4 1terabyte seagate sata hard drives, will a 550 watts power supply give it enough power?
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13:07<Torsten>normally I use "kernel 2.6.18" (etch) but can't find the kernel headers any more (as i wanted to compile my previously working modules)
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13:20<Torsten>hello i'm using "debian etch 2.6.18-6" but I forgot to install matching kernel-headers. Now I can't access them via apt-get. And so I can't compile my self written hwmon modules against this kernel. Any tipps how I can solve this problem?
13:21<weasel>install the kernel headers?
13:21<Torsten>apt-get install kernel-headers-2.6.18-6 don't work any more
13:22<weasel>!don't work
13:22<dpkg>Look buddy, "doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions> and <errors>.
13:22<weasel>or, in short: why not?
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13:23<Torsten>apt-get gives the error: can't find paket kernel-headers-2.6.18-6
13:23<Torsten>i think this pakets are to old to be accessed over debian server?
13:23<weasel>apt-cache search headers 2.6.18
13:23<weasel>Torsten: you still have etch in your sources.list, right?
13:25<Torsten>i installed debian etch long time ago over net install and didn't change a thing since then
13:25<weasel>what does /etc/apt/sources.list say?
13:25<weasel>stable or etch?
13:26<Torsten>depb stable/updates main contrib
13:26<weasel>is that all?
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13:27<Torsten>and: deb stable main contrib
13:28<Torsten>thats all
13:28<weasel>replace stable with etch
13:28<Torsten>both times?
13:28<weasel>then apt-get update, then apt-get dist-upgrade - that should apply a ton outstanding security updates
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13:29<weasel>and then "apt-cache search headers 2.6.18" should give you a list of header packages to pick from
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13:31<gordon73>Hi all. I'm having a problem with OBEX server. hcitools detects Bluetooth device and scans, but Kbluetooth doesn't, so I can't recieve files. Can it be corrected via configs? Could files be received using a console tool?
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13:33<Torsten>updating kernel
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13:35<wozza>gordon73 hi I use obexftp, are you talking about obexftpd?
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13:36<wozza>gordon73, also you could look at obexfs - where you add an entry /etc/fstab: obexfs#-b00:E0:03:46:95:AF\040-B10 /mnt/obex fuse allow_other 0 0
13:36<gordon73>wozza: Really I've been using kdebluetooth tool, but now it fails. If obexftpd will do the task (UI doesn't matter), then it's cool and big thanks to you.
13:37<wozza>good luck - have fun
13:37<gordon73>wozza: roger, will try
13:40<Torsten>seems to work
13:42<Torsten>@wozza: tx its working
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13:43<Torsten>and now my modules can compile without error
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13:47<Torsten>did there really happen a change in i2c-core from "2.6.18-6" to "2.6.31-6" cause I can't compile my self written stuff against "2.6.31-6" ??
13:47<weasel>wouldn't surprise me one bit
13:48<weasel>2.6 changes fast.
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13:48<PovAddict>does debian have a gcc 4.4 package?
13:48<Gathond>and .18 and .31 is what ... 2 years apart?
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13:49<PovAddict>oh my bad
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13:49<Gathond>PovAddict: ask aptitude
13:49<Gathond>sid has one
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13:49<PovAddict>yeah my bad, I meant a 4.5
13:50<PovAddict>not sure how up-to-date gcc-snapshot is
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13:50<Torsten>well I wasn't aware of that I need to change my driver source with every minor version change! :-)
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13:51<Gathond>torsten: those are not really consideres minor versions any longer as they have settled on adding features/changes in 2.6 instead of doing it in 2.7 as they did earlier
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13:53<Torsten>well I wonderd while the driver model seemes to have changed for "hwmon" since my last driver change from 2.4 to 2.6 :-)
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13:57<Torsten>thanks all for your help
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14:00<Torsten>now I can go wild on my VM :-)
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14:23<TANT>à ÷î ìîë÷èì?
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14:25<TANT>âû ÷î âñå ïî ðóññêè íå øàðèòå ÷òîëè?
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14:42<EmleyMoor>Other than inkscape, is there anything good for adding typing to pdfs? inkscape is messing with the text and boxes this year for some reason.
14:42<dondelelcaro>EmleyMoor: if it's a form, evince can just do it
14:42<dondelelcaro>EmleyMoor: otherwise, you can use inkscape or xournal, or similar
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14:44<EmleyMoor>It's a "not a form" form.
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14:46*EmleyMoor will try xournal
14:46*EmleyMoor will also complain about the club's stupidity
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14:56<drbombay>can some one please provide a link for installing Enlightenment DR17
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14:58<drbombay>found a link googling but it was at ubuntu can I use it for Debian also?
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15:00<dpkg>[e17] The <Enlightenment> DR17 (Development Release) window manager is packaged for Debian as e17 in <unstable>. Don't even think about asking ljlane anything about e17 or efm. See also
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15:01<PovAddict>"It is the Duke Nukem Forever of the Linux world." hahahaha
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15:02<faheem>drbombay: you can check or the wiki or just do apt-cache search or similar.
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15:04<drbombay>faheem & dpkg, thanks
15:04<mazze2>Hello together. I'm suspecting my laptop-accumulator to give false values about the power left in the cell. Now I want to configure the system _not_ to shut down automatically when the accumulator seems to reach zero level. I have a more or less standard lenny installation with GNOME, but when I change the policy to "ignore" in gnome-power-manager, the system _still_ does a shutdown. Where do I have to change the config?
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15:09<kop>johnnybot: Hello
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15:27<mazze2>Hello together. I'm suspecting my laptop-accumulator to give false values about the power left in the cell. Now I want to configure the system _not_ to shut down automatically when the accumulator seems to reach zero level. I have a more or less standard lenny installation with GNOME, but when I change the policy to "ignore" in gnome-power-manager, the system _still_ does a shutdown. Where do I have to change the config?
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15:34<jamesuk>I've been stupid and deleted everything in /boot and I now can't boot my laptop. I'm running Lenny, every thing except /boot is on LVM and encrypted. I've no idea where to start to try and fix this. Any pointers?
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15:35<mazze2>jamesuk can't you boot with an install-medium (CD or USB-Stick) and use the console to repopulate the /boot-partition?
15:36<jamesuk>mazze2: I'm not too sure how to do that. Any advice?
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15:37<mazze2>firstly, just boot off an install-medium.
15:37<mazze2>then, use a console from there (ALT-F2)
15:37<mazze2>then, try to mount your LVM-Volumes
15:38<mazze2>and then, using chroot, try to reinstall your linux-image-package.
15:38<jamesuk>mazze2: OK, I'll do that now. How do you mount LCV-Volumes?
15:39<jamesuk>Sorry I don't know to use chroot either, I started reading about this earlier but didn't get any where.
15:39<mazze2>use "vgscan" and then "lvscan"
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15:39<mazze2>then you can mount the volumes like "mount /dev/myvg/myvolume /chroot/mymountpoint"
15:40<mazze2>it is just important to mount everything into one subtree, so that everything relates correctly to each other.
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15:40<mazze2>and chroot is quite simple: Just do "chroot /chroot" or whatever your target directory, where you did mount all the FS mount, is.
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15:42<jamesuk>mazze2: Trying to boot for a lenny CDROM and the laptop doesn't see it for some reason. I have tested this CDROM today on a destop and it worked OK. Just tried an older Lenny CDROM when it was in testing and that seamed to boot. Should I just use "install"?
15:43<mazze2>at the boot prompt? Yes, just choose install.
15:44<jamesuk>mazze2: at the boot prompt I hit Enter, it showed is started to load the linux image then just a black screen appears and it all stops. Not sure what is going on.
15:45<Guest1574> /bin/rm: Argument list too long # how do i get around this?
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15:45<mazze2>so, you really have already a problem booting the install-device? That sounds difficult ...
15:46<mazze2>Guest1574 e. g. "find . -name <pattern> -exec rm {} \;"
15:46<Guest1574>ah thanks will try that, good call
15:46<themill>!using find
15:46<dpkg>it has been said that using find is, or "man find"
15:46<kop>jamesuk: At the boot prompt it should tell you to press the function keys to get various kinds of help. Perhaps there's a screen that lists common kernel options to change the way the video is displayed/detected. You could also do a text mode install.
15:46<Xenguy>Guest1574: or '-iname' for case insensitive search
15:47<mazze2>jamesuk Maybe you should try an even newer boot-cd, from the new testing?
15:47<jamesuk>mazze2: Its not been a problem before on booting, I'll download and testing image.
15:47<kop>Guest1574: Or use xargs
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15:48<n8t>hi all
15:48<jamesuk>kop: I've been trying a text install that doesn't work but the gui install works. Odd, must be some thing to do with video?
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15:50<kop>jamesuk: Yes. Once you're done with the install you could install the reportbugs package and file a bug against the debian-installer package.
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15:51<kop>jamesuk: Or the framebuffer maybe.
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15:52<jamesuk>mazze2: vga=771 fixed the display problem. The console does not give me "vgscan" or "lvscan". Shall I just get a newer install-image?
15:52<mazze2>jamesuk no
15:52<mazze2>wait ...
15:53<mazze2>I have to admin, that I'm surprised. The last time I used such a procedure, I thought, I had these tools.
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15:53<mazze2>Maybe somebody else here ... ?
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15:56<RexKiller>who wants a big pizza ?
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15:57<themill>RexKiller: wrong channel? Try #debian-offtopic.
15:57<RexKiller>themill: ahh sorry.. didn't know such place exists. thanks !
15:58<mazze2>jamesuk maybe there is -- instead of the "install"-image -- a dedicated "rescue"-image with richer functions ... ?
15:59<jamesuk>mazze2: Good idea, I'll check now.
16:01<jamesuk>mazze2: No luck. No additional tools. Any idea's why I can not boot from a lenny 5.0.3 image but can from lenny (testing) image from early 2008?
16:02<mazze2>jamesuk no, not really, but this is also not relevant, because even much older images (at least the last 4 years) should include LVM-tools ...
16:02<mazze2>I think, I cannot help you any further -- hopefully somebody else can!
16:03<jamesuk>mazze2: Thanks for your help. Hopefully some some one else will be able to. The image that I can boot from, is what I installed form in 2008 and it has LVM support in there..
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16:04<mazze2>jamesuk you mean, including vgscan and so on?
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16:05<jamesuk>mazze2: The installer had options for LVM and encrypted LVM, so that what I used.
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16:06<mazze2>but in the console, the commands are not available?
16:07<mazze2>strange ...
16:07<jamesuk>Just found another Lenny image I will check
16:08<mazze2>I'm sure that this is not an error, but there has to be something to be known -- and I don't know it.
16:09<jamesuk>that image didn't wan to boot either. Really not sure why the laptop doesn't like some of the CDROMs
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16:10<dpkg>To use an NVIDIA graphics card with Debian, see If you've done it before, asking me about <nvidia pre-built> or <nvidia m-a> might work. Testing users: ask me about <nvidia squeeze>. Installing directly from (i.e. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia (
16:11<PovAddict>I see new nvidia-kernel-source and nvidia-glx packages on squeeze
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16:20<Titan8990>PovAddict, last time I used squeeze I had to grab nvidia drivers out of squeeze due to a known bug. its been a couple months but you may want to look in to it
16:20<Titan8990>err out of sid
16:21<PovAddict>I just upgraded it
16:21<PovAddict>had to install the source package only, run m-a a-i, then install nvidia-glx (which got broken after m-a installed the new package)
16:21<PovAddict>upgrade* nvidia-glx
16:22<PovAddict>I didn't yet restart X though, so I don't know if it works :P
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16:24<astronut>!nvidia squeeze
16:24<dpkg>non-free nvidia+squeeze guide: (a) aptitude upgrade ; aptitude full-upgrade (ensure you are running the current kernel; /msg judd kernels) (b) create a testing/unstable mix (ask me about <tum>) (c) aptitude install module-assistant; aptitude -R -t sid install nvidia-kernel-source; m-a prepare; m-a a-i nvidia && aptitude -t sid install nvidia-glx. (d) Configure xorg.conf as per
16:25<PovAddict>I already had a tum
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17:12<davi>Will squeeze support the upgrade from KDE 3 to KDE 4? I think KDE 5 have differences which will disturb an upgrade without issues
17:13<davi>I would advise to follow supporting KDE 3 in the next Debian release
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17:27<TwK>hi everyone ^^
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17:35<jseakle>Hi, I recently upgraded from etch to lenny, and my sound is now the broken. It worked fine before. Any ideas?
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17:35<_qq_>try alsaconf
17:35<jseakle>command not found, do i need to apt-get it?
17:35<jseakle>or is it a file?
17:35<locklace>jseakle: what does "cat /proc/asound/cards" return
17:36<jseakle> 0 [CK804 ]: NFORCE - NVidia CK804
17:36<jseakle> NVidia CK804 with ALC655 at irq 22
17:36<locklace>!alsa checklist
17:36<dpkg>1) add yourself to the 'audio' group (log out and log in again) 2) use alsamixer and unmute channels and raise levels (also try muting some channels) 3) arts or esound stopped? 4) OSS modules unloaded? 5) speakers on? 6) modprobe snd-pcm-oss 7) does "aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav" work for root? Test your sound with aplay and a wav so codec issues don't confuse the situation. See also <list alsa users>.
17:37-!-mode/#debian [+l 388] by debhelper
17:37<jseakle>alrighty, i'll give those a shot. thanks
17:37<_qq_>install alsa-utils
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17:46<jseakle>when that list says 'arts or esound stopped'
17:46<jseakle>does it mean i should have both of those running?
17:46<jseakle>or exactly one?
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17:46<jseakle>(artsd is running, ps aux | grep esound shows nothing)
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17:52<zamolxes>hello. I'd like to log the DomU consoles in text files on Dom0. Is this my best option? Thanks
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17:54<x-napster>Hey anyone who can help me with Debian ?? "Danish or English" please
17:54<PovAddict>!tell x-napster about ask
17:58<x-napster>Hey i have some problems with Debian 4.0 on my dedicated server from, i cant figure out how to install ftp server, hat ftp server is the best and how to install it ?
17:58<x-napster>what ftp*
17:58<gsimmons>dpkg: tell x-napster -about ftpd
17:59<faheem>gsimmons: is dpkg: and ! operationally equivalent?
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18:00<x-napster>Ftpd is proberly that i want to install
18:01<gsimmons>faheem: Yes (I find addressing dpkg to be less ambiguous).
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18:02<faheem>i thought people don't use ftp much any longer because of security issues
18:02<faheem>gsimmons: thanks for the clarification
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18:03<x-napster>what els to use ?
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18:04<x-napster>Is it possible to restart a dedicated server, so it still can be used over VNC ?
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18:11<GuiBR>Hi, i'm trying to download the Debian testing images for amd64, but i can't find them, is there a problem??? i'm trying for about 6h.
18:12<PovAddict>I don't think there are "images" for testing, only netinstall
18:12<faheem>GuiBR: you mean you can't find a site to download them from?
18:13<GuiBR>yes, i see the, and try to search at but there is nothing there
18:14<GuiBR>at there is no files there
18:15<themill>GuiBR: they take many hours to build and would be out of date after 6 hours. There's no point in making them at present.
18:15<PovAddict>can I build my own out of package files?
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18:18<GuiBR>but, what i need to do if i want to install the testing version?
18:18<PovAddict>GuiBR: netinstall
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18:19<GuiBR>ok, i usually donwload the image and them install. Ok, i will try it, thanks for all
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18:22<GuiBR>what is the version of testing? and the codename?
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18:24<_qq_>GuiBR, /msg dpkg debian
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18:25<_qq_>businesscard ?
18:25<PovAddict>why not? let's save cdimage some bandwidth
18:26<_qq_>businesscard is not recommended
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18:28<GuiBR>i found it:
18:28<GuiBR>is it right?
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18:31<sney>that's it
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18:36<GuiBR>ok, thanks for all
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18:40<luchi>alguien habla aca??
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18:41<luchi>is there sombody ?
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18:57<amgarchIn9>i see more tasks in debian-tasks.desc then tasksel presents to me. Why so?
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18:58<Scub>hey guys I was wondering if I could get some help getting my NVIDIA GeForce 9200 GS working with my 64 bit Lenny Distro
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18:59<Scub>I have already tried following a guide and it failed, Im pbin'ing /var/log/nvidia.installer.log now
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19:01<bremner>Scub: did you follow the guide on
19:02<Scub>it was from pendrive linux
19:02<Scub>let me check it out real quick
19:02<bremner>afaik, the only supported method here is !nvidia
19:02<dpkg>To use an NVIDIA graphics card with Debian, see If you've done it before, asking me about <nvidia pre-built> or <nvidia m-a> might work. Testing users: ask me about <nvidia squeeze>. Installing directly from (i.e. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia (
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19:04<Scub>ty I will check it out
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19:24<ssf>transparency (alpha blending) seems to be messed up for me in games (pretty consistently). It ends up looking like corruption (garbagey line patterns) where the transparency is used. I've had this problem in Ubuntu for quite a while. I installed Debian and the problem's still there. I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas about this. I tried googling for it but haven't found anything relevant. I don't know if it is an xorg problem or an SDL
19:24<ssf>problem or what.
19:24<ssf>btw, i have an s3 savage 4 video card.
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19:28<ssf>anyone have any ideas? I don't really know where to look to find out about this problem. Has anyone had or heard of a similar problem?
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19:30<abrotman>which version of Debian ?
19:31<ssf>i started out with lenny, now testing/unstable. had it with both.
19:31<abrotman>oh ok
19:31<abrotman>ew .. s3
19:32<ssf>at some point in the past it did not use to have this problem (I don't remember exactly when).
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19:33<astronut>alsa annoys me
19:33<ssf>hmm, do you know of a program that uses alpha blending but not SDL? Would be useful to narrow things down possibly.
19:33<astronut>somehow trying to use bluetooth as a seperate device broke dmix on the main one
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19:49<m3onh0x84>hỉ everybody, how to pause apt when installing application ?
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19:50<PovAddict>you don't
19:53<dkr>^S to stop ^Q to quontinue
19:55<Guest1574>^Z to stop, fg to continue
19:57<dkr>scroll lock to stop, scroll lock to continue
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19:58<Guest1574>^C to stop, apt-get -f install to continue
19:59<Guest1574>but seriously, you don't. why would you?
19:59<dkr>heh, I was going to go for pull plug and re-run apt next :)
19:59<PovAddict>suspend or hibernate
19:59<PovAddict>the entire syste
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19:59<dkr>have superman stop rotation of earth
20:00<PovAddict>disconnect CPU from its clock source (is that possible? I think the clock is inside the CPU actually)
20:00<m3onh0x84>But I don't search see plugin for apt to pause apt when apt installing
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20:05<abrotman>retrospectacus: he can't do that if it's already mid-install
20:10<retrospectacus>what is the thing to continue an interrupted install.... dpkg something?
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20:13<jpinx-eeepc>^s and ^q to stop and start iirc
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20:19<abrotman>retrospectacus: dpkg --configure -a .. but it's better to not stop it at all
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20:23<retrospectacus>for sure. sometimes it will restart gdm or something like that though...
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20:26<sime>I need to connect to my job vpn and log in a Terminal server session
20:26<sime>I think I need vpnc and gnome-rdp
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20:36-!-helix is "Erika Chambers" on %#debian-partay %#debian-women #debian-ops %#debian-devel #debian
20:44<retrospectacus>sime: what is the problem?
20:45<sime>none yet.. I will receive the access shortly but the tech team usually deals with windows
20:45<sime>I just want to know of to set it up
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20:46-!-babilen is "Wolodja Wentland" on #debian-mentors #debian-offtopic #debian-python %#debian-devel #debian
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20:55<jseakle>Hey, I was here a while ago asking about sound issues, and someone pointed me at the alsa checklist. I tried several things on it, none of which worked, but there are some i don't understand
20:56<jseakle>in particular, how do i check if my OSS modules are unloaded?
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20:56<jseakle>also, should esound be running in addition to artsd?
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20:58<locklace>no, and you should test without artsd too
20:58<locklace>try "speaker-test -t wav" as root
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21:00<jseakle>locklace: running it as root; it's spitting out Time per period data but no sound
21:01<locklace>i bet it's something with your mixer settings
21:01<jpinx-eeepc>speaker-test only seems to do front-left - any ideas why?
21:01<locklace>run alsamixer and play with them
21:02<locklace>jpinx-eeepc: add -c2
21:02<jseakle>is there a reason they would have changed across the upgrade from etch?
21:02<jseakle>also, i have been fiddling with them
21:02<locklace>everything changed since etch
21:02<jseakle>but i'm not exactly sure what they should be
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21:02<jpinx-eeepc>locklace: yep thanks - reading man
21:02<locklace>jseakle: if you hit f3, f4, etc. in alsamixer you'll get additional settings
21:03<locklace>jseakle: for some cards you have to mute some channel like external amp in addition to unmuting the master, etc.
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21:03<jseakle>ah ok got it awesome.
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21:20<Ouro>is installing an untrusted debian-archive-keyring any different from just installing all the other untrusted packages?
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21:24<dhaos>Ouro: you take a risk with any packages signed with that untrusted ring, but apt won't warn you.
21:24<dhaos>Ouro: that said, the risk is still pretty low.
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21:25<Ouro>i am just saying that it is pointless to install that package since it comes from the same repository as the untrusted packages for which it provides a key
21:26<Ouro>as opposed to the gpg --recv-keys method which gets the key from another server
21:26<Ouro>or am i missing something
21:28-!-juri_ [~juri@] has joined #debian
21:28<juri_>where would i go to get a list of packages included in a minimal install (what i can guarantee to be there)?
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21:29-!-itsosimpo [] has joined #debian
21:29<itsosimpo>hello friends, hope you are all having a nice evenign
21:32<Ouro>juri_: i suppose that you want a list of all packages with priority "standard" or higher, perhaps there is such a list on
21:33<itsosimpo>i have a question, one of many: can i shrink my windows partition using the partition editor on the debian boot cd
21:33-!-lavarama1o [~lava@] has joined #debian
21:33<itsosimpo>i have windows 7 already installed
21:34<itsosimpo>Ouro: thank you :)
21:34<Ouro>this does not sound like the best idea though, unless you are willing to lose your data
21:35-!-foxes [flash@] has joined #debian
21:35<itsosimpo>err where is the installation guide?
21:35<itsosimpo>it's a brand new computer
21:36<jpinx-eeepc>itsosimpo: use windows tools to manage windows stuff- it's lots safer
21:36-!-lavaramano [~lava@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:36<itsosimpo>i've never used windows 7 before
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21:37<PovAddict>you can use Linux tools to shrink Windows partitions, they're pretty safe, you won't lose data
21:37<itsosimpo>that's what i want to hear
21:37<PovAddict>they don't guarantee those Windows partitions will *boot* afterwards
21:38<PovAddict>that's a different issue
21:38<itsosimpo>oh boy
21:38<itsosimpo>so um is there an fstab for windows?
21:38<PovAddict>although that happens more if you move a partition's start block than if you resize it...
21:38<itsosimpo>or is that a grub issue?
21:38<itsosimpo>ok i probably own't do that
21:39<Ouro>if its a new installation of windows, you can always just reinstall?
21:39<itsosimpo>but i want to make sure it boots
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21:42<jpinx-eeepc>itsosimpo: use defrag in windows and then resize the partition but oly cutting the end - not the beginning
21:42<itsosimpo>oh too late
21:42<itsosimpo>the chaos has begun
21:42<itsosimpo>i shrunk it from 487.1 to 50.1
21:43<jpinx-eeepc>have fun :p
21:43<itsosimpo>oh boy thanks
21:43<Ouro>PovAddict: why would there be problems with booting if you put GRUB in the MBR?
21:43<jpinx-eeepc>I was going to walk you through it - but.......
21:44<PovAddict>it's not that there "will be problems"
21:44<PovAddict>just "if it breaks you get to keep the pieces"
21:45<Ouro>thats a caveat with pretty much any low-level drive operation :)
21:45<jpinx-eeepc>Ouro: grub will normally detect the windows boot and accomodate it
21:46<Ouro>sounds right, but i have not done a dual-boot in ages
21:46<Ouro>these days i just install a vm for whichever OS i use less
21:46<jpinx-eeepc>Ouro: he's doing it the right way round - install windows first, then debian with grub. If you install windows last it grabs the MBR and screws grub
21:47<jpinx-eeepc>Ouro: Vm are good if you have the hardware ;)
21:47<Ouro>though you can probably restore grub with a livecd
21:47-!-ghost [] has joined #debian
21:48<jpinx-eeepc>Ouro: yes - there are several how-to's to recover grub from the winstall installer
21:48<ghost>guys im trying to download some important updates but i get the following error "cant connect to" is it down? i tried changing the respiratories index to the main server,but i get the same thing
21:49<abrotman>ghost: is your DNS broken? (and you really shouldn't be using anyways)
21:49<eightyeight>how do i get past the 'detect and mount cd-rom' error when booting from a usb drive?
21:50<abrotman>ghost: it was a simple question .. no need to msg me
21:50<ghost>k sorry
21:52<ghost>ok i found a working server
21:52<ghost>nevermind thanxs anyways,and thank you abrotman for your concern
21:53<abrotman>huh ?
21:53-!-shweppsie_ [] has joined #debian
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21:55<Ouro>eightyeight: check first two hits here, maybe something will work:
21:55-!-Zenob [] has joined #debian
21:56-!-PovAddict [~nicolas@] has left #debian [Konversation terminated!]
21:56<itsosimpo>guys, i want to set up my partitions exactly how i have it here on this computer
21:56<itsosimpo>how do i check the partitions again?
21:57<juri_>fdisk -l?
21:57<itsosimpo>yeah that's it
21:57<itsosimpo>erh um i didn't label them either
21:57<itsosimpo>i'm thking about chrooting to all the diff partitions
21:57<itsosimpo>and checking what's inside. is there an easier way?
21:58-!-qaz [] has joined #debian
21:58<itsosimpo>oh god fdisk -l is a mess!
21:58<qaz>somebody using ati hd 3300?
21:58<Ouro>why chroot, just mount and ls?
21:58<itsosimpo>sorry yeah
21:58<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
21:58<itsosimpo>that's what i meant
21:59<Ouro>you can use "file -s /dev/<partition>" to determine fs type, if that helps
21:59<eightyeight>Ouro: thx for the reply, but i've tried that, and it doesn't work
21:59<itsosimpo>Ouro: i guess that's the best way right?
21:59<qaz>i'm using debian sid and i have a asus with chipset 790
21:59<qaz>the video on board is an ati 3300
21:59<qaz>now i can use the driver ati
22:00<eightyeight>Ouro: this is a netbook, and as a result does not have a cdrom. i've spent far too much time on google looking for anything. nothing seems to be working
22:00<qaz>but when i try radeonhd or fglrx the video and pc is really slow
22:00<Ouro>eightyeight: i have little experience with this, but it seems that you have to get antoher drive or boot methof
22:00-!-shweppsie [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:00<Ouro>eightyeight: maybe try to boot from a USB stick instead
22:00<qaz>ther is somebody using ati hd 3300 ?if yes whit which driver?
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22:01<eightyeight>Ouro: that's what i'm attempting, as per my initial question
22:01<eightyeight>Ouro: booting from a usb stick
22:01-!-vsayer05 [] has joined #debian
22:01<Ouro>ah, i thought you were using a usb cd-rom drive
22:02<eightyeight>ah, nope. :)
22:02<Ouro>maybe try that then?
22:02<eightyeight>if i had one...
22:02<Ouro>eightyeight: what netbook
22:02<eightyeight>hp mini 110
22:02<jpinx-eeepc>eightyeight: that problem has come up before, but I can't remember the fix. Did you check the wiki?
22:03<eightyeight>jpinx-eeepc: i've been looking. unless you have a specific page to point me to, i'm not seeing it
22:03-!-chealer [~chealer@] has joined #debian
22:03*jpinx-eeepc goes for a look
22:04<Ouro>eightyeight: are you doing something like this:
22:05<eightyeight>fwiw- i've read section 4.3 of the d-i manual
22:05<eightyeight>Ouro: yeah. i've done that method. still fails at detecting cdrom
22:06<eightyeight>i've even built a custom usb drive from scratch with syslinux, and it fails there too
22:06<eightyeight>i've tried unetbootin with the netinst.iso... fails
22:06<jpinx-eeepc>eightyeight: nah -it's something really simple like holding the Esc key
22:06-!-angasule [~angasule@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:07<Ouro>eightyeight: i dont think that it should even look for a cdrom with that method
22:07-!-qaz [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:07<eightyeight>... i'll do it again ...
22:07<jpinx-eeepc>eightyeight: I presume you have set the bios correctly?u
22:08<eightyeight>jpinx-eeepc: what needs to be changed, other than booting from usb?
22:08<jpinx-eeepc>eightyeight: disable the CD
22:08<_qq_>eightyeight, tried ? !debian.exe
22:09-!-chitchat [] has joined #debian
22:09<eightyeight>_qq_: i'm not running windows on it
22:09<jpinx-eeepc>different BIOS's do different things
22:10<eightyeight>jpinx-eeepc: no cdrom present in the bios
22:10<eightyeight>i have already installed ubuntu on it. and i'm okay with that, but i would much rather have debian installed
22:10<eightyeight>i know i can do it, i'm just experiencing a hiccup here
22:11<Ouro>something as simple as a corrupted ISO?
22:11<eightyeight>i've thought of that. md5sum checks out
22:12-!-salomon [] has joined #debian
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22:15<salomon>good night
22:16<faheem>eightyeight: what is the boot order/priority in the BIOS?
22:16<faheem>you are trying to boot from a USB stick and it asks for a nonexistent CD rom, correct?
22:17<faheem>and how many different devices are mentioned in the boot order?
22:17<salomon>will not let me save changes shows me permission denied
22:17<eightyeight>faheem: usb -> hdd
22:18<Ouro>salomon: has to be done as root, obviously
22:18<faheem>eightyeight: hmm. thanks.
22:18<salomon>ouro yes i root
22:18<itsosimpo>oh god i don't even remember which are my logical and which are my primary partiitons
22:19<Ouro>salomon: ls -al /etc/apt/sources.list
22:19<Ouro>itsosimpo: having fun yet?
22:19<faheem>itsosimpo: fdisk -l would tell you
22:20<salomon>ouro -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 448 nov 15 19:45 /etc/apt/sources.list
22:20<itsosimpo>i can't read these numbers
22:21<Ouro>salomon: permisson on /etc? partition mounted read-only?
22:21<faheem>eightyeight: saw this?
22:23<faheem>and this one too -
22:23<eightyeight>faheem: that's dealing with ubuntu 8.04, which is rather old. i've already installed both 9.04 and 9.10 on this netbook, including encrypted lvm. so it can be done
22:23<itsosimpo>okay from what i see i have two logical drives running the operating system. and the boot, swaps, data files all in an extended partition. does that sound right?
22:24<faheem>possibly this too -
22:24<eightyeight>faheem: i guess i can give that a try. hell, i'm willing to try just about anything at this point
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22:25<faheem>eightyeight: is this lenny or squeeze?
22:26<faheem>eightyeight: does it actually boot off the usb stick?
22:26<eightyeight>faheem: the installer is a daily snapshot (i know, i know)
22:26<eightyeight>yes. it's booting, and the kernel, initrd and installer are all loading
22:26-!-Zenob [] has left #debian [Leaving]
22:26<jpinx-eeepc>eightyeight: are you not using the standard installer?
22:27<eightyeight>jpinx-eeepc: i need a daily snapshot, because it has the kernel with the driver i need for the integrated nic
22:27<faheem>eightyeight: do you need something so new? they don't have like a beta installer?
22:27-!-salomon [] has left #debian []
22:27<eightyeight>otherwise, i can't get a network install
22:27<faheem>eightyeight: ok
22:27<jpinx-eeepc>eightyeight: install stable and upgrade as needed
22:27<eightyeight>jpinx-eeepc: the stable installer kernel doesn't have my nic driver
22:27-!-negro-jei [~negro@] has joined #debian
22:27<faheem>eightyeight: jpinx-eeepc has a point
22:27<eightyeight>it won't work
22:27<faheem>you can get a complete install from cd, then add in your driver afterwards from another kernel
22:28<faheem>i mean, after the installation
22:28<eightyeight>how do i upgrade to sid, if the stable kernel doesn't have any nic drivers?
22:28<jpinx-eeepc>eightyeight: I have seen somewhere info on using drivers not in the installer - more reading "how to install" for you dude ;)
22:29<eightyeight>jpinx-eeepc: yeah. i'm about to that point. haven't gone that route quite yet. seems more work than i want to do at this point
22:29<faheem>eightyeight: you can put all the debs you need on a usb stick. you just need a upgraded kernel probably
22:29-!-streuner_ [] has joined #debian
22:29<faheem>you are probably just talking about a few debs, maybe only a couple
22:30<eightyeight>maybe. i really don't want to download a 700MB iso though
22:30<faheem>eightyeight: ok.
22:30<eightyeight>but i will if i have to i guess
22:30<jpinx-eeepc>eightyeight: is there no way you can use hardware that works? ;)
22:30<eightyeight>jpinx-eeepc: when it's free, it's free
22:31<jpinx-eeepc>eightyeight: go to the netinstallers and choose the bigger one - it might have your driver
22:31<Ouro>later people
22:31-!-Ouro [] has quit []
22:31<faheem>jpinx-eeepc: daily snapshot?
22:31<eightyeight>yeah. i'm using netinst, rather than businesscard
22:31<jpinx-eeepc>there are several netinstallers
22:31<jpinx-eeepc>faheem: not unless you are experet :p
22:32<jpinx-eeepc>*expert - even
22:32<jpinx-eeepc>eightyeight: but not the daily's ?
22:32<eightyeight>jpinx-eeepc: i'm using the netinst from the daily's
22:33<eightyeight>i've already mentioned it. read the backlog
22:33<faheem>eightyeight: what is the kernel and the driver in question?
22:33<faheem>< eightyeight> jpinx-eeepc: i need a daily snapshot, because it has the kernel with the driver i need for the integrated nic
22:34-!-itsosimpo [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:34<eightyeight>faheem: 02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Attansic Technology Corp. Atheros AR8132 / L1c Gigabit Ethernet Adapter (rev c0) is the card in question
22:35<faheem>eightyeight: and it is new? driver?
22:35<eightyeight>brand spanking new
22:35<faheem>and the kernel? 2.6.31?
22:35<eightyeight>2.6.30 got the driver, iirc
22:35-!-dhaos [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:36<_qq_>!tell eightyeigh -about kmuto
22:36-!-whilo [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:36<dpkg>For Debian Lenny (or Etch) installers with up-to-date kernels, see . The included <bnx2> and <bnx2x> firmware files in 0627 images are required to be moved prior to network hardware detection, see comments of
22:37<jpinx-eeepc>eightyeight: ^^
22:37-!-streuner__ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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22:38<eightyeight>i think i tried one of those images last night. can't recall exactly. i guess i'll try again
22:40<eightyeight>i did, but apparently, i was drousy enough to try out the 2.6.28 and not the 2.6.30 installer
22:40<eightyeight>(purple links. :))
22:40-!-jbergler [] has joined #debian
22:41<jbergler>Hi guys, where's the best place to get some help updating the deb packaging files for the newer releases of kamailio which seems to be unmaintained in debian/ubuntu these days.
22:42<faheem>jbergler: #debian-mentors, probably
22:42<faheem>are you trying to reuse old debian packaging with a newer release?
22:43<jpinx-eeepc>forward-port ?
22:43<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, atl1c is a driver for Atheros L1C PCI-E gigabit Ethernet controllers (AR8131, AR8132), used in some laptop and netbook systems (e.g. Acer Aspire Timeline 4810T, Asus Eee PC 1005HA). Included in mainline since kernel 2.6.30 (which was broken, see Debian bug #538410); use of kernel 2.6.31 or later is recommended.
22:43<jbergler>fahem, no im trying to get dpkg-buildpackage to make me some nice .deb's for kamailio 3.0rc1 but the most recent activity i can find on it seems to be for around 1.4.x ish
22:43<_qq_>eightyeight, ^^
22:43<eightyeight>_qq_: ok. thx
22:44<faheem>jbergler: yes, exactly my point. so presumably you are trying to reuse the packaging for 1.4.x?
22:44<faheem>for 3.0rc1?
22:44<jbergler>yeah, i've fixed up most of the changes but i can't get my head around how some of the shlibs stuff works
22:44<faheem>by say copying in the debian directory from 1.4.x etc?
22:44<faheem>jbergler: yes, #debian-mentors
22:44<jbergler>faheem, thanks
22:45<faheem>jbergler: i don't think it is actually off-topic here, but you'll probably get more effective help there
22:45<faheem>also, i presume you
22:45<faheem>have been looking at the debian packaging manual(s)?
22:46<_qq_>eightyeight, throw away the hard disk , install it on other pc, add kernel 2.6.31 , and put it back to original pc ..
22:47<jbergler>yeah, i dont think it's so much related to the debian packaging as it is with the buildscripts and makefiles which are causing some files to exist in both the core and the module packages, but if i remove them the builds fail because the deps cannot be resolved.
22:47<faheem>jbergler: sounds messy
22:47<eightyeight>_qq_: i think it would be easier to build my own kernel, and throw that at the insatller. :)
22:48<_qq_>no, is harder ..
22:48-!-jclinton [~jclinton@] has joined #debian
22:48<abrotman>!custom netinst
22:48<dpkg>To create customized Debian <netinst> images, see and . Also ask me about <kmuto>.
22:49<jpinx-eeepc>ah - that's the one - we'd done kmuto..
22:49<eightyeight>_qq_: nah. grab kernel sources, configure, compile. then zcat boot.img.gz > /dev/sdc, then copy over newly compiled kernel and initrd to /dev/sdc, and boot that
22:49<eightyeight>problem is the cdrom missing crap with that approach
22:50<eightyeight>and, compiling a new kernel would take longer than downloading 700MB of cd1.iso
22:50<faheem>eightyeight: what's wrong with the kmuto thing?
22:50<eightyeight>kernel needs to be 2.6.31. he only has 2.6.30
22:51<eightyeight>but .31 is in unstable, so i guess i'm going the 700MB route...
22:51<faheem>eightyeight: bugger
22:52<eightyeight>oh well, i'm learning a _ton_ through this process, so all is well
22:54<faheem>eightyeight: make sure to file a bug about your current problems - so they can fix it
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22:55<itsosimpo>urrghhhhhh by default my laptop came with windows stuff on primary partiitons
22:55<itsosimpo>i dont even know what's in them
22:55<itsosimpo>i want to move some stuff into an extended partition!!
22:55<itsosimpo>what do i do?
22:56-!-linac [~lin@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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22:57<jpinx-eeepc>itsosimpo: pastebin fdisk -l
22:58<itsosimpo>i can't because i'm not on my laptop but here's what i see using the partitioning thinger in the debian boot cd
22:59<jpinx-eeepc>itsosimpo: pastebin the output - not here ;)
22:59-!-jpablo [~chatzilla@] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceweasel 3.0.14/2009091008]]
22:59<itsosimpo>#1 pripary 1.6GB B NTFS; #2 primary 50.1GB NTFS; #3 primary 11.5GB NTFS; pri/log 437.0GB Free Spaace
23:00<itsosimpo>oh sorry, well that's generally what it says
23:00<faheem>itsosimpo: so create an extended partition with the free space
23:00-!-alephnull [~alok@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:01<itsosimpo>ok well i want to move that thing with 50.1GB into the extended partition
23:01<itsosimpo>and also maybe that bootable thing
23:01<faheem>itsosimpo: why?
23:01<itsosimpo>how do i do that without messing up windows?
23:02<itsosimpo>cos then i can install the operating systems as a primary partitions
23:03<itsosimpo>err /root, in the primary partitions
23:03<itsosimpo>everything else in logical partitions
23:04<jpinx-eeepc>itsosimpo: you will almost certainly break windows boot
23:04<itsosimpo>how can i avoid that?
23:05-!-_qq_ [~qq@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:05<faheem>itsosimpo: it really doesn't matter
23:05<jpinx-eeepc>I told you before- defrag and chop the end of the windows aprtition for your debian
23:05<faheem>ie. install the operating systems as a primary partitions
23:06<jpinx-eeepc>itsosimpo: do not touch the beginning of the windows partition or you will break it
23:06<itsosimpo>jpinx-eeepc: okay say i did that
23:06<itsosimpo>but now i want to move all the other windows partitions into logical partitions
23:06<jpinx-eeepc>consider it b0rked
23:06<itsosimpo>like the boot loader and the data files
23:07<itsosimpo>i was able to do that with my pc
23:08<itsosimpo>i just forgot how :-(
23:08<jpinx-eeepc>itsosimpo: then you know how and no need to ask here ;)
23:08-!-retrospectacus1 [~retrospec@] has joined #debian
23:09<faheem>itsosimpo: this is nutty.
23:09<faheem>just do a install in your free space
23:09<retrospectacus1>how do I disable a package from being upgraded?
23:09<faheem>retrospectacus1: you can pin it
23:09<faheem>!apt pinning
23:09-!-abrotman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:10-!-Tw33k^ [jdub@] has joined #debian
23:10<dpkg>Pinning is a method to choose which version of a package to install when multiple versions are available from sources.list. man apt_preferences, Bugs are explained at If you use stable, pinning won't help you from messing up the system... use <backports> instead.
23:10<faheem>retrospectacus1: man apt_preferences
23:10<itsosimpo>urgh i'm going to freenode #debian!
23:11<Tw33k^>I'm looking to improve my boot speed. I'm not talking by a little bit, I'm looking to boot like xandros' presto boots - like 3 seconds or so ...
23:11-!-carlyn_ [] has joined #debian
23:11<Tw33k^>anybody have any clue how to achieve that with debian?
23:11<Tw33k^>since presto is debian based...?
23:11-!-carlyn_ [] has left #debian []
23:11<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it probably falls short of Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. If your distribution has an IRC channel, you can use it instead. Even if your distribution has fewer people in its IRC channel, or doesn't have one, support for distributions other than Debian is off-topic on #debian.
23:11<Tw33k^>i'm running lenny
23:12<Tw33k^>Linux jdub-thinkpad 2.6.24-etchnhalf.1-686 #1 SMP Fri Dec 26 04:10:16 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux
23:12<Tw33k^>less botflaming more suggestion would be helpful...
23:13<eightyeight>Tw33k^: use sysv-rc-conf to turn off any services you don't need started
23:13-!-Jsnix [~osvaldo@] has joined #debian
23:13<jpinx-eeepc>Tw33k^: there are many how-tos about fast booting - giyf
23:13<Tw33k^>eightyeight: i think they do more than that though
23:14<eightyeight>Tw33k^: take a look at upstart too. it supports parallel boot for any remaining services
23:14<Tw33k^>like in the time my debian machine loads a stage3, this other thing is booted
23:14-!-lavarama1o [~lava@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:14<Tw33k^>it's way pre-hotplug etc
23:14-!-lavaramano [~lava@] has joined #debian
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23:15<Jsnix>I installed 5.0.3 on a friend's laptop, but the gnome panel did not appear
23:15<Jsnix>is that normal?
23:15<Tw33k^>did you for some reason uncheck something in the installer?
23:15<Tw33k^>should be there by default.
23:16<Jsnix>I installed it via CD
23:16<Jsnix>not DVD
23:16<Tw33k^>apt-get it?
23:16<Jsnix>I tried to
23:16<Jsnix>but for some reason, I could not get it
23:16<Tw33k^>do you see icons on your desktop etc?
23:17<Jsnix>and I can open nautilus
23:17<Jsnix>gnome is there
23:17<Jsnix>it is simply lacking the panels
23:17<Jsnix>but there was no internet connexion
23:17<Tw33k^>can you alt-f2 and run it?
23:17<Jsnix>so we could not get it from the repositories
23:17<Jsnix>oh, but that was some days ago
23:17<Jsnix>we uninstalled it
23:17<Jsnix>we are going to install it again
23:17<Jsnix>via DVD
23:18<Jsnix>we hope that does not happen again
23:18<Jsnix>not to worry though, he will come back
23:18<Tw33k^>easier to set up the network
23:18<Tw33k^>just apt-get it
23:18<Jsnix>what is the exact name of the network manager?
23:18<Tw33k^>quicker anyway
23:18<Jsnix>so I can run it via alt-F2
23:18-!-_qq [~addqq@] has joined #debian
23:18<Tw33k^>Network-Manager i believe
23:19<Jsnix>ah, does Debian run on a machine with 256mb only?
23:20<Jsnix>thanks lads
23:20-!-tjol_ [] has joined #debian
23:20<Tw33k^>give it mucho swap
23:20<Tw33k^>maybe not that mucho
23:20<_qq>256 x 2
23:20<eightyeight>unless you plan on hibernating to disk, there's no reason to do more that 1gb
23:20-!-wang [~wang@] has joined #debian
23:21<Jsnix>my main machine has 9GB
23:21<eightyeight>or, if you have applications finely tuned to take advantage of swap, like oracle
23:21<Jsnix>I am planning to move to Debian as well
23:21<Jsnix>fine system
23:21<eightyeight>otherwise, you're wasting disk, and if it gets used at all, your system will slow to a crawl
23:21<Jsnix>what do you mean, eightyeight?
23:22<Tw33k^>it's NetworkManager
23:22<Jsnix>by "if it gets used at all"?
23:22<Tw33k^>depends how many apps you have open
23:22<Jsnix>ah, thanks Tw33k^
23:22<Tw33k^>and what those apps are doing
23:22<eightyeight>Jsnix: swap is ram on disk. so, if it gets used, then the apps have to wait to read and write from disk, which is on order of magnitudes slower than ram
23:22-!-wang [~wang@] has quit []
23:22<Tw33k^>what eightyeight said.
23:23<jpinx-eeepc>Jsnix: my old laptop runs lenny happily with 256RAM and a 500MHz cpu
23:23<eightyeight>Jsnix: so, if you dedicate tons and tons of swap, then when it starts to fill, you'll feel it
23:23<Tw33k^>Jsnix: go for a light weight window manager
23:23<Jsnix>so a FS with COW should take a better advantage of swap ram?
23:23-!-lavaramano [~lava@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:23<Tw33k^>i.e. xfce4
23:23<Jsnix>swap space*
23:23<jpinx-eeepc>Jsnix: stick to the guidelines - 3x RAM = swap
23:23<Tw33k^>3x is even a bit high isnt it
23:23<eightyeight>Jsnix: so, a good rule of thumb: unless you have apps specifically designed to swap in and swap out effeciently, or you want to hibernate to disk, there really is no reason for anything more than 1gb
23:23<jpinx-eeepc>personally I use 500Mbs
23:24<Jsnix>I have seen some distros using 2X RAM = swap by default
23:24<Jsnix>but I never really got to use that much space
23:24<eightyeight>Jsnix: that's fine, if the ram is < 512MB
23:24<Tw33k^>i don't really swap that much
23:24<Tw33k^>i'm on a machine with 512mb
23:24<jpinx-eeepc>Jsnix: make up your own mind considering how much hdd space you have and how fast is your hdd
23:25<eightyeight>i rarely swap, and when i do, i hate life
23:25<Tw33k^>eightyeight: lol
23:25<Jsnix>via SATAII
23:25<jpinx-eeepc>Tw33k^: on my eee I have 2Gbs RAm and NO swap
23:25<Tw33k^>swapoff ftw
23:26<eightyeight>it is nice to have some swap
23:26<Jsnix>but you can change your swap space size, can not you?
23:26-!-famelix [] has joined #debian
23:26<Jsnix>repartitioning it
23:26<Tw33k^>so .... fastbooting ... vanilla lenny stage3 fast ... you guys have any idea?
23:26<jpinx-eeepc>Jsnix: absolutely
23:26<eightyeight>Jsnix: yes. the difficulty of doing so may depend on how you set it up
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23:26<eightyeight>partinions vs lvm vs files
23:26<eightyeight>for example
23:26<jpinx-eeepc>Jsnix: dead easy - use a swapfile
23:26<Jsnix>I reckon shrinking it is good for me
23:27<Tw33k^>i use a swap partition personally
23:27<Jsnix>me too
23:27-!-tjol [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:27<jpinx-eeepc>Jsnix: there are loads of options but I can only tell you that 512swap and 256 RAM worksa
23:27<Tw33k^>should do fine
23:27<Jsnix>I have 5.0.1 here
23:27<Tw33k^>unless you enable all kinds of crazy stuff
23:28<Tw33k^>like spinnan cubez
23:28<Jsnix>I reckon that is the one I am going to install in this old machine I have in front of me
23:28<jpinx-eeepc>Jsnix: I'm running 5.0.3
23:28<Jsnix>btw, what Xorg version does 5.0.3 have?
23:29<Jsnix>and kernel?
23:29<Jsnix>by default
23:29<Tw33k^>how do i actually output the dist-version?
23:29<Tw33k^>i think mines pretty mish mash
23:29<jpinx-eeepc>2.6.26-2-686 #1 SMP
23:29<Jsnix>uname -a?
23:29<jpinx-eeepc>Tw33k^: cat /etc/debian_version
23:30<retrospectacus1>this pinning thing is not working. I cannot get the system to not want to upgrade darkice when I do "apt-get upgrade".
23:30<Jsnix>jpinx-eeepc, we have similar nick names
23:30<Tw33k^>/bin/sh: /cat/etc/debian_version: No such file or directory
23:30<Tw33k^>/bin/sh: cat/etc/debian_version: No such file or directory
23:30*Tw33k^ is smooth
23:31<jpinx-eeepc>Tw33k^: you need to upgrade - it's at 5.0.3 now
23:31<Tw33k^>*need* to?
23:31<Jsnix>does apt-get dist-upgrade does that?
23:31<Jsnix>I am not familiar with Debian systems
23:31<jpinx-eeepc>security upgrades
23:31<Tw33k^>i've got modules i went through a fair headache to get working on this kernel
23:31<jpinx-eeepc>Jsnix: man aptitude
23:32<Tw33k^>what kernel is 503?
23:32<jpinx-eeepc>Tw33k^: I don't think it'll touch your modules
23:32<Tw33k^>the modules won't load on newer kernels
23:32<Tw33k^>and ipw2200
23:32<jpinx-eeepc>security upgrades do not touch the kernel afaik
23:32<Tw33k^>i'm drunk and stoned
23:33<Tw33k^>not ieee1394, ieee80211
23:33<Tw33k^>oh really?
23:33<Jsnix>hey, is there any way for me to back up date directly when installing a Debian system?
23:33<Jsnix>without using external drives
23:33<Tw33k^>how do you mean
23:34<Tw33k^>shrink your partition
23:34<Jsnix>I have a computer I need to fix here
23:34<Jsnix>and it has 18GB of music files
23:34-!-prem [~prem@] has joined #debian
23:34<Jsnix>but I do not have a flash disc as big as 18GB
23:34<Tw33k^>shrink partition, install debian on unused disk space
23:34<Tw33k^>mount partition
23:35<Jsnix>can I put the partitions together later on?
23:35<jpinx-eeepc>Jsnix: why do you need to get the music off the disk?
23:35<Jsnix>jpinx-eeepc, I do not want to get it off, I want to back it up
23:35<Jsnix>I do not want to lose it
23:35<jpinx-eeepc>Jsnix: define "fix"
23:35<Tw33k^>Jsnix: if its only 18gb copy them after to your /home/ or whatever and eat the partition with your debian partition
23:36<Jsnix>it has Windows XP on it
23:36<Jsnix>and it works awfully bad
23:36<Jsnix>so I told them to get GNU/Linux
23:37<jpinx-eeepc>Jsnix: how big is the hdd?
23:37<Tw33k^>tell them to solve all their computer problems by installing gentoo ... lol
23:37<Jsnix>oh yeah
23:37<Jsnix>no, they are the ordinary common user xD
23:37<jpinx-eeepc>Tw33k^: pack it in
23:37<Tw33k^>ok ok
23:37<Tw33k^>i'm out
23:37<Jsnix>"Hey, I installed Slackware... hope you get on well with it."
23:38<jpinx-eeepc>Jsnix: copy your data to a new partition and install debian without using the data partition, thena ccess it with NTFS-3g
23:38<Jsnix>but does any one have any suggestions?
23:39<Jsnix>but I will have to shrink the NTFS one it has right now, right?
23:39<Tw33k^>to do that, yes
23:40<jpinx-eeepc>if you have room, you can copy the data onto the new ext3 fs and then convert the ntfs to ext3
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23:40<Jsnix>it has 7.7GB free
23:41<Tw33k^>no hostserv on this irc server?
23:41<jpinx-eeepc>Jsnix: use windows tools to defrag and resize the partitions and create one just for data
23:41<Jsnix>ah, jpinx-eeepc, Windows does not open up
23:41<Jsnix>not even in recovery mode
23:41<jpinx-eeepc>Jsnix: :(
23:41<Tw33k^>you sure the hdd is ok?
23:41<Jsnix>I ran palimpsest-disc-utilities
23:41<jpinx-eeepc>Jsnix: sounds like you need a live CD
23:42<Jsnix>I am running one
23:42<Jsnix>right now
23:42<Jsnix>Fedora 11
23:42<Tw33k^>live disc and an external
23:42<Jsnix>I am familiar with Fedora
23:42<jpinx-eeepc>this is debian ;)
23:42<Jsnix>the problem is, I have some hours to fix it
23:42<Jsnix>and I do not have a Debian live CD
23:42<Jsnix>but I want to install Debian on it
23:42<jpinx-eeepc>download one and use it ;)
23:43<Tw33k^>what nic does it have?
23:43<Jsnix>no time for that, jpinx-eeepc
23:43<Jsnix>and I have no writable CD-R here
23:43<Tw33k^>Jsnix: do lspci|grep Ethernet
23:44<Jsnix>I guess I will use my ways
23:44<Jsnix>I will get my 80GB HDD and back it all up to this disc
23:45<Tw33k^>good plan
23:45<Tw33k^>while you do it grab a netinst disc and install from that
23:46<Jsnix>since I have no CDs here
23:46<Jsnix>good plan indeed
23:46<Jsnix>the only CD I have got is 5.0.1
23:47<Jsnix>it should be fine, right?
23:49<venice>I thought the latest building 5.0.3?
23:49<venice>I thought the latest build is 5.0.3?
23:50<Jsnix>it is 5.0.3
23:50<Jsnix>but I do not have its CD
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23:52<eightyeight>i give up
23:52<eightyeight>cd1 stops at the cdrom garbage as well
23:52<eightyeight>ubuntu is installed. that's just going to have to wrok
23:53<Jsnix>mint is fine as well
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23:56<Tw33k^>how do I vhost on this server
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---Logclosed Tue Nov 17 00:00:17 2009