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#debian IRC Logs for 2009-12-30

---Logopened Wed Dec 30 00:00:19 2009
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00:22<orman>the tar.gz came with folders arch etc, lib, opt, usr, x740 , x740_64a
00:23<orman>but no readme, no configure. I found a makefile in lib. what was ATI thinking?
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00:26<orman>linux has some poor hardware support. installing windows soon.
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01:26<opticon>webmin 1.5 works ok on debian 5?
01:28<FiendKing04>Hey, I tried getting Windows to work on my computer again, but it's being a pain in the butt... AGAIN... so I'm giving it the boot and switching to Debian.... but I don't have any CD's at the moment, so I'm using a flash to boot it up, which my computer supports. I'm all set to go.. sort of. Exactly which files do I need to download onto the flash drive?
01:28<FiendKing04>a flash drive to boot it up*
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01:32<FiendKing04>I've been there... but exactly which ones is it?
01:32<FiendKing04>In the MANIFEST it doesn't mention USB Drives.. is there something that would be the same as that?
01:33<FiendKing04>HD-Media, maybe?
01:33<gsimmons>FiendKing04: You would want to refer to the Installation Guide.
01:33<gsimmons>dpkg: tell FiendKing04 -about usb install
01:33<FiendKing04>I'm trying to get the hang of Linux, but PCLinuxOS has .ISO's to download only, so I'm trying this instead. :)
01:34<FiendKing04>Oh, my gosh.
01:34<FiendKing04>Thank you so much. :)
01:34<FiendKing04>I've been trying to get this for weeks, I can't believe it's that simple. :P
01:36<opticon>debians pretty awsome cant wait for new release
01:37<opticon>current one is kind of behind the others like ubuntu
01:37<FiendKing04>That should be awesome, then. :)
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01:37<FiendKing04>From what I've read, they don't update really often, but when they do... :P
01:38<opticon>3 years isnt bad
01:38<opticon>alot changes in that time tho
01:38<FiendKing04>I mean, I like Ubuntu and all, but... I just REALLY want Debian. =]
01:40<opticon>for just desktop use ubuntu for other things like server the regular version of debian seems better also some apps for debian dont work right on ubuntu
01:40<sney`>I like to think of ubuntu as debian's younger, dumber, prettier cousin
01:40<FiendKing04>Nice way of putting it. :)
01:41<sney`>shiny but not a lot in the brains department
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01:42<opticon>debian's setup is the best ive seen so far you can configure indepth network settings have apache bind or samba installed right off
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01:44<sney`>yeah debian is great out of the box provided you don't have brand new cutting edge wifi hardware
01:44<sney`>and even then, backports is relatively painless
01:45<opticon>i wonder if the next release will have ext4 filesystem
01:45<sney`>squeeze does I think
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01:46<sney`>yep, at least I have mkfs.ext4 on here without having installed it personally
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01:46<opticon>can the sqeeze release be downloaded for testing?
01:47<FiendKing04>ext4? :P
01:47<sney`>you can upgrade from lenny or install it directly
01:47<FiendKing04>New file system?
01:47<sney`>another upgrade from ext2/3
01:48<FiendKing04>I've only hear of ext2 and ext3... but.. then again... I've been only using Linux on and off for about two years. :(
01:48<FiendKing04>I would LOVE to learn it more, which is why I'm installing now.
01:48<sney`>good way to learn
01:48<opticon>ext3 been around since early part of 2000 i believe
01:48<opticon>maybe longer
01:48<sney`>yeah, ext3 is pretty old
01:49<sney`>it works well enough. a lot of ext4's upgrades are not too relevant to modern computers, just anticipating growth
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01:50<opticon>main one ive worked with is ntfs
01:50<sney`>speaking of old :P
01:50<sney`>linux ntfs support has come a long way in the past few years
01:51<opticon>its about as old as ext2
01:52<opticon>i dont recall it not ever having support for ntfs drives
01:53<opticon>im in college working on network specialist degree linux wont be covered in anything
01:53<opticon>i dont understand why not tho
01:54<sney`>read only support has been around forever, but read-write support until recently was extremely buggy and/or dangerous
01:54<sney`>mostly because Microsoft doesn't like letting other people know how their software works
01:54<dr|z3d>Clean room reverse engineering takes time; fortunately MS have done precious little to advanced NTFS over the years.
01:55<opticon>ive worked with their software since the 90s and still just as clueless
01:55<sney`>they were threatening to overhaul it completely for win7 but dropped that in favor of making it more shiny. oooh, shiny...
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01:56<dr|z3d>Bah. They threatened that for Vista.. remember that whole DB filesystem debacle? What was it? WinFS?
01:56<opticon>that was to advanced
01:57<dr|z3d>Too ambitious.
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01:57<FiendKing04>I saw something around somewhere that Debian has native support for multi-core processers.. not to be off topic.'
01:57<dr|z3d>FiendKing04: It does.
01:57<opticon>yea smp i think it is
01:57<opticon>picks up all 4 of mine
01:57<dr|z3d>"symmetric multi-processing"
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01:58<FiendKing04>My girlfriend's dad just got a new computer, so I got his old one... I went from a single core 1.7 Ghz to a 2.4 Ghz and then in this new computer 2.4 Ghz dual-core. :)
01:58<sney`>you can use as many CPUs as you want and it will still work! probably.
01:58<sney`>anyway yeah 2 cores is nothingfor the linux kernel
01:58<heffay>I'm not sure it matter that the kernel knows you have multiple cores if you're using a program that doesn't support multiple threads.
01:58<FiendKing04>Ya'... I have to explain to people that in order to get full access to their dual-core on Windows they need 7. XD
01:58<FiendKing04>Now who's the one running out-dated software. :P
01:59<dr|z3d>FiendKing04: That's bogus.
01:59<dr|z3d>Windows from 2000 onwards supports SMP.
01:59<dr|z3d>Erm, NT.
02:00<FiendKing04>I'm serious. My friend built a custom computer with 8GB of DDR3 RAM and a 2.6Ghz quad-core, and until he got 7, it felt like the OS was fighting it.
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02:00<FiendKing04>Instead of having the power of the four cores, it was only really using about half of them. :S
02:00<sney`>that was probably an illusion.
02:00<heffay>WIndows always feels faster after you reinstall it lol
02:00<opticon>quads are supported fine on xp
02:00<dr|z3d>Multicore doesn't mean every app uses all of them. Most don't.
02:01<sney`>the 8GB of ram wouldn't be supported entirely until he upgraded to a 64-bit OS, though. that's probably what happened.
02:01<FiendKing04>I know. I'm saying XP itself felt like it was only using two out of the four.
02:01<opticon>w7 was supposed to enable better multicore support but i cant tell the difference
02:01<FiendKing04>He had 64-bit.
02:01<dr|z3d>Multicore doesn't magically make all your apps multi-threading.
02:01<sney`>2k/XP would only see 3.something GB
02:01<sney`>and XP-64 was garbage
02:01<FiendKing04>Ya'.. hence why my girlfriend's laptop has a 32-bit OS and only 3GB of RAM. :P
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02:02<heffay>I've heard win7 lets you assign a process to a particular core in the task manager.
02:02<FiendKing04>I'm just happy to try Debian.. since last time the installation froze, and I wound up putting XP back on it. >.<
02:02<FiendKing04>Yes and no.
02:02<FiendKing04>Windows 7 is nice... sort of.
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02:02<dr|z3d>All consumer grade Windows OS's will only allow you to address 3GB +-.
02:02<FiendKing04>It didn't solve as many of the problems as you would think.
02:03<dr|z3d>(including 7).
02:03<dr|z3d>Windows 7 is Vista with a new lick of paint, and some optimizations they should have had ready for Vista. Snake oil.
02:03<sney`>we don't need to have a flame war tonight dr|z3d.
02:04<dr|z3d>All 32bit consumer grade..
02:04<FiendKing04>I would've put it a little higher up than that, but.. ya'.. pretty much, that's what it is.
02:04<dr|z3d>Indeed not.
02:04<opticon>he's right tho
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02:04<dr|z3d>I don't see any recipient of said flames. It's all friendly. :)
02:04<FiendKing04>I have to agree... we're just sharing opinions, although it's nice to see concern. :)
02:04<opticon>anyone worked with mail server in debian?
02:04<opticon>all i know is exchange
02:05<dr|z3d>opticon: If you can afford to spend some cash, try Merak's Mail Server.
02:05<dr|z3d>About as good as it gets on any platform.
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02:05<FiendKing04>Hm, I'll have to check that out.
02:05<sney`>the unix gurus I know all seem to prefer qmail
02:06<dr|z3d>I think the product's called Merak Mail Server.
02:06<dr|z3d>(and it's not free).
02:06<dr|z3d>unix gurus by definition don't buy software they can get for free, sney, as well you know. ;)
02:07<FiendKing04>So, on the Debian website, it mentions that is supports A LOT of GUI's... I'm assuming Compiz is included?
02:07<FiendKing04>Though.. is Compiz actually considered a GUI? As I said, not to good with Linux yet. :S
02:07<dr|z3d>Compiz is supported, sure, as long as your adapter does.
02:07<FiendKing04>Just wondering.
02:07<dr|z3d>Compiz is a "compositing manager" not a GUI.
02:07*FiendKing04 gives a blank stare.
02:08<FiendKing04>Sounds like I'm going to need to do more research... a lot more.
02:08<sney`>I half-ass tried to get it working in xfce one day, and it was annoying so I gave up. but apparently it's easy under Gnome and KDE.
02:08<FiendKing04>Not that that's a bad thing.
02:08<sney`>yes! more learning!
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02:08<sney`>don't worry, few people outside the compsci types understand much about compiz besides that it replaces your window manager and makes things shiny. ooh, shiny...
02:09<opticon>compiz enables desktop effects
02:09<FiendKing04>I've used it before on this computer, actually.
02:09<FiendKing04>Gotta' love that cube.
02:09<FiendKing04>I was using a PCLinuxOS Live CD.
02:09<FiendKing04>I'm giving Debian a run, this time, though.
02:09<sney`>what gpu do you have
02:10<dr|z3d>Compiz is similar to the DWM in Windows. It uses 3d to render offscreen to buffers, allowing all manner of spangly effects.
02:10<FiendKing04>On this one... well, this is my brothers, so all I know is it's an nVIDIA GeForce something something :P with 256MB RAM.
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02:10<dr|z3d>Plenty fine for Compiz.
02:10<sney`>nvidia! nvidia is pretty easy to get working.
02:10<FiendKing04>We're both getting new nVIDIA's with 1GB RAN soon, though.
02:11<dr|z3d>Aim for minumum 32MB for Compiz, 64 better.
02:11<FiendKing04>I love nVIDIA.. the one in mine is an ATi Radeon 9200 with 128MB RAM.
02:11<FiendKing04>I tried to run Compiz on my on board on my old computer.. I think I smelled smoke.... :p
02:12<sney`>the 9200 should work too, iirc that's an 8500 with upgrades... compiz is shiny but it isn't crysis, you know
02:12<FiendKing04>The bigget thing I get lost with in Linux is installing stuff.
02:12<sney`>apt makes that pretty easy
02:12<opticon>qmail is the default mail server included with debian or so it looks like
02:12<FiendKing04>Ya'.. I try to stick with APT or Synaptic.
02:13<dr|z3d>Nvidia aren't so hot in Linux.. sure, they make reasonably solid closed source drivers for Linux; they also offer no help to 3rd party projects (eg Nouveau).. so whilst not obstructive, they're not exactly helpful, either.
02:13<sney`>they used to be a lot worse, to boot
02:13<FiendKing04>Sounds like another company Microsoft paid off to not develop 100% cross-platform compatible stuff.
02:14<FiendKing04>Not that I'm surprised.
02:14<gsimmons>opticon: No.
02:14<gsimmons>dpkg: tell opticon -about server tasks
02:14<sney`>meh, more like just working with the biggest market share
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02:14<sney`>the lazy option
02:14<FiendKing04>That, too. XD
02:14<sney`>often when people suspect a conspiracy it's just laziness at work! especially in technology
02:15<sney`>no games for linux? that is because DirectX is easier to code for
02:15<dr|z3d>bah. PLENTY of games in Linux.
02:15<FiendKing04>Cane you imagine DirectX in Wine? :P
02:15<sney`>linux/wine compatibility lately comes about as a backhand side effect of OpenGL support developed for OSX
02:15<FiendKing04>Dang "ergonomic" wireless "Microsoft" keyboard... T_T
02:16<sney`>for instance: WoW
02:16<FiendKing04>That sounds... bad. :P
02:16<sney`>input devices usually work within standards, I wouldn't worry about a keyboard unless it was weird and proprietary... it's probably bluetooth, which is usually fine
02:17<FiendKing04>Wireless Comfort Keyboard. Ya', comfort at the price of mistyping every other letter.
02:17<FiendKing04>The keys are what bug me.
02:17<FiendKing04>It's got this weird shaping, and so the keys are all different sizes.
02:18<sney`>I think my fiancee has the same one, I always miss the Y key and hit T because T is huge
02:18<FiendKing04>I prefer my blank literally black and white, rectangle, Samsung from my original computer in '98. <3
02:18<FiendKing04>Blank..? Why did I say blank?
02:18<FiendKing04>Microsoft is giving my a headache.
02:18<FiendKing04>I need to go install Linux.
02:18<FiendKing04>All this mistyping. :(
02:19<sney`>yes, you're turning into jar jar binks. go do your thing
02:19<FiendKing04>336 Idlers... nice.
02:19<sney`>we span the time zones
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02:20<FiendKing04>Well... Debian IS pretty amazing.
02:20<FiendKing04>Then again.. Linux is amazing. <3
02:20<sney`>debian is old and has a lot of gurus
02:21<FiendKing04>The way I see it, the only reason to ever use Windows is for legacy programs that don't have Linux support... yet.
02:21<sney`>you trade cutting edge software for a community actually able to support you if something goes wrong. I think it's a fair trade.
02:21<FiendKing04>Linux will always be ahead of the game, even Windows... especially Windows.
02:22<FiendKing04>I have an XP OEM CD from a couple years back, installed it, and it had 53 Updates... and this CD checks for updates and installs the SP's by default.
02:23<sney`>and debian updates won't brick your system! with xp it's always a little bit of a crapshoot
02:23<FiendKing04>Plus... Windows is a dumb name... why not a cool name.. like.. oh, I don't know, Debian. :)
02:23<opticon>do a fresh install with sp3 intergrated more than 100
02:23<dr|z3d>If you must install Windows, my advice is to streamline it beforehand with nLite.
02:23<sney`>wow, I have 90 updates. been a while. sney, please remind yourself to run aptitude update more than once a month. thanks, sney.
02:24<opticon>sp2 for vista caused systems not to work anymore after service pack was pushed out
02:24<FiendKing04>I love bashing on Windows, because when people ask me about all the great features of Linux, I can just show them these chat logs along with a Live CD. :)
02:24<FiendKing04>I then proceed to show Bill Gates and his excuse for an OS the door.
02:25<sney`>hmm, to play wow or not to play wow
02:25<FiendKing04>Seriously, I was reading an interview from a programmer for Windows.
02:25<opticon>what i would like to see is office ported over
02:25<opticon>they did it for mac
02:25<FiendKing04>They said without their programming platform.. .NET or whatever, and DirectX, Windows would've been long gone as early as 98 or 2000.
02:26<FiendKing04>That's really the only thing keeping them from going under. That, and them paying companies to pre-ship it on their computers.
02:27<FiendKing04>Which is why I salute companies that offer alternatives... such as Linux, BSD, etc.
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02:27<FiendKing04>Why should they be a monopoly?
02:27<FiendKing04>Monopolies are broken up in other industries, why not OS's?
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02:28<FiendKing04>Then again, I'm just repeating what everyone in here has already said. xD
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02:28<sney`>one of the rules of #debian is that you can't have too much off topic conversation
02:28<sney`>we have another channel for that called #debian-offtopic
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02:28<sney`>it's not a big deal right now since nobody is around
02:29<sney`>but if you were to rant when people needed support, it would be inadvisable
02:29<sney`>just a fyi
02:29<sney`>and what are you still doing here? get to installing! :D
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02:30<FiendKing04>I am. :D
02:30<FiendKing04>I actually just booted up my computer.
02:30<opticon>indeed during the install pay attention when it comes to sources
02:30<FiendKing04>I'm too nerdy if I'm getting super-excited about an OS.
02:31<opticon>i did an install recently skipped through it fast and needless to say atp was missing alot of stuff
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02:34<FiendKing04>Oh, and about the ranting thing.. yes, I know not to do that during "active' hour.
02:34<FiendKing04>It's 2:30 my time, so... I figured I'd do it now and get it out of my system for a while. :)
02:35<opticon>ehh just remember both windows and linux has their places
02:35<opticon>im sure we all get aggravated quite abit from time to time and swear to never use it ever again
02:36<FiendKing04>Unfortunately.. I think what it's going to come down to is Windows on one HDD and Linux on the other. :(
02:37<sney`>I have my OSes installed in 2 40GB partitions on an 80GB drive. data is all on other disks. it works.
02:37<FiendKing04>Cool. :)
02:37<sney`>though lately due to a VPN that I probably shouldn't have joined, XP doesn't work. Oh well, I guess I will reinstall it eventually.
02:37<opticon>here on my main rig im running 4 different ones under vmware
02:38<FiendKing04>I have a 160 ATM that is going to have Windows and then a 40 slave that will have Debian.
02:38<FiendKing04>"Eventually." :P
02:38<sney`>when I need to use windows, that is. right now I don't.
02:38<opticon>i do like wubi
02:38<sney`>eventually means some people will demand that I play borderlands with them or something
02:38<opticon>is their something like that for debian?
02:39<opticon>awww whats this
02:39<sney`>the debian install isos all have a setup.exe that runs in windows but all it basically does is reboot you
02:39<FiendKing04>If there is, that'd be really cool... and really helpful. :D
02:39<opticon>someone trying to send me porn from somewhere
02:40<FiendKing04>Sorry, my bad. :P
02:40<opticon>not safe to idle in ubuntu channel
02:40<sney`>bah, installing debian is easy, you don't need point and clicky windows things
02:40<opticon>wubi allows you to dual boot windows with ubuntu without partitioning the drive
02:41<FiendKing04>Is it bad if I'm 17 and listening to songs from 50's and 60's?
02:41<FiendKing04>I can't help it.. doo wop is amazing. <3
02:42<sney`>opticon: well, you could do the same thing in a VM. I guess it probably does some hacky filesystem-within-a-filesystem thing a la Peanut Linux in the early 00s
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02:42<FiendKing04>I would love to have a Debian CD, but I don't want to have to rip apart to computers to get... wait... :P
02:42<opticon>look into it its not quite the same as vm
02:42<FiendKing04>I'm going to install Windows on the main, so then I can just download the DVD's and burn them on my computer. :D
02:42<sney`>filesystem-within-a-filesystem is just generally not a good idea in the long run and only serves as a method to test the OS out before you decide to repartition things
02:43<sney`>FiendKing04: how fast is your connection?
02:43<opticon>disk io takes a hit
02:43<opticon>and kernal updates can mess up grub if its installed via wubi
02:44<FiendKing04>MB MBits whatever it is.
02:44<sney`>FiendKing04: if you've got download over 1Mbit then the only disk you need is the Netinstall, it's way faster than pulling all of the DVDs
02:44<FiendKing04>13 down, 3 up.
02:44<dr|z3d>B is bytes.
02:44<sney`>throw an i in there if you want to get metric
02:44<FiendKing04>Well, there's some technical thing... MB is megabytes, but apparantly that's different from MBits which is Megabits... O.o
02:45<sney`>bits make up bytes
02:45<dr|z3d>8 bits in a byte.
02:45<FiendKing04>IDK.. all I know is I have nice, stable, cable connection, 12 down, not 13, and 3 up.
02:45<FiendKing04>Did you know there's a bit and byte, but in between is a nibble? XD
02:46<sney`>FiendKing04: then all you need is the netinstall, and you get a fully up to date debian system without having to torrent any big honking 4.7GiB isos
02:46<FiendKing04>Thanks. :D
02:46<opticon>all thats on the dvds is base install and packages from repo isnt it?
02:46<opticon>i used 1 cd iso for base install and during set let it download and install packages i selected
02:46<FiendKing04>So it's basically stuff I can download as I need it, instead of having 25K of files from the servers. :P
02:47<FiendKing04>25K of programs, I mean.
02:47<sney`>it's good if you're in a situation where you're downloading in one place and installing in another, for instance a university student burning the DVDs in the library and taking them home to an internet-challenged dorm, or something like t hat
02:48<sney`>the netinst CD contains the installer and the software needed to connect to the debian mothership(s) and download the rest of the OS from there
02:48<FiendKing04>Well, this is my personal home connection, so.. I mean, yesterday, before my computer crapped out on me, I was running BitTorrent with 12 items, each 700MB or more.. :P
02:48<FiendKing04>That Net installer seems like an amazing CD... /me steals it.
02:48<FiendKing04>Oh, wait. Debian is free. =D
02:48<sney`>the only other reason to not use netinst would be if you have some funky brand new network hardware that needs a newer kernel than the installer has. which is kind of common on new netbooks, but not much else
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02:50<FiendKing04>Which .iso would that be? :P
02:50<opticon>netinst method is new to me
02:50<dpkg>i heard netinst is a small CD image with which you can install Debian. If, during the installation process you have a working Internet connection, you can install more packages straight away, otherwise, you will have a base install and more packages later. See See also <check iso image>, <dialup install>, <usb install>, <pppoe install>, <netboot>, <bf>, <installer>.
02:50<FiendKing04>Hehe. You guys are amazing. <3
02:51<sney`>dpkg knows all, except when he's being sassy
02:51<dpkg>sney`: I give up, what is it?
02:51<opticon>i thought the first cd iso that was like 600megs was base install plus some packages
02:51<sney`>stupid sassy bot >:o
02:51<opticon>if netinstall is the base install then its smaller than i thought
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02:51<sney`>it's about 125MiB I think
02:51<sney`>a lot is compressed, of course
02:52<FiendKing04>It says 149, but I'm assuming 125 is the average, since there's different types.
02:52<FiendKing04>I'm using i386.
02:53<FiendKing04>Always works for me. :)
02:53<FiendKing04>The best thing about Debian is minimum requirements.
02:53<sney`>i386 is the most commonly used so it's the best supported
02:54<FiendKing04>EVERY time Windows increases their requirements, while it seems Linux seems to stay the same... which makes sense.
02:54<opticon>im using x64 so far no problems
02:54<sney`>second best is probably AMD64, which is the 64-bit x86 and supports more ram etc... but otherwise is much the same as i386
02:54<FiendKing04>Ya', that's what I figured.
02:54<FiendKing04>So, that's what I should put on my friend's.
02:55<opticon>and even tho it says amd its also for intel emt64
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02:55<FiendKing04>8GB quad-core... on Debian...? Amazing. :P
02:55<sney`>opticon: yep! amd just got there first so they got the name.
02:55<FiendKing04>My God.
02:55<FiendKing04>It's almost down already.
02:55<sney`>and intel downplays the crap out of em64t, it's just part of sse3 as far as they're concerned.
02:55<FiendKing04>Windows still got me mad. :P
02:55<FiendKing04>60%, downloading at about 550K average. :D
02:56<sney`>hmm only 24 minutes left on my battery
02:56<opticon>amd licensed their x64 bit extensions to intel
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02:56<sney`>heh, I routinely get 1MB/s apt downloads
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02:56<FiendKing04>I'm hoping it'll be that way for me.
02:56<opticon>just as intel has agreement with amd to use their x86 extensions
02:57<FiendKing04>Best download I ever got was actually my old Debian CD from a while back.
02:57<sney`>there's a debian mirror at a university about 3 miles from my house so that's why. always pick mirrors close to you!
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02:57<FiendKing04>I'm using BitTorrent for this one.
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02:57<sney`>apt doesn't torrent, that's what I'm talking about
02:57<FiendKing04>Come on, hit 600K down.
02:57<FiendKing04>Done. :D
02:58<opticon>hah you guys lucky my max is 80kb up and down
02:58<FiendKing04>I'll be sure to leave it to upload for a while.
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02:58<FiendKing04>Dial-up? :P
02:58<FiendKing04>Imagine trying to download the full DVD's. XD
02:58<FiendKing04>No offense.
02:58<opticon>no lol
02:58<FiendKing04>My girlfriend still has dial-up out in the country.
02:58<heffay>I can hit 20Mb/s
02:59<opticon>24hours it takes to download 4.25gb
02:59<FiendKing04>Her mom won't get Comcast "because they support gays".
02:59<FiendKing04>Ironically... so does her job. :P
02:59<opticon>less if speed is max entire time
02:59<FiendKing04>They could have FIFTEEN MEGS! But Nooo... T_T
03:00<sney`>I've got a 15/3 package here, it's alright, I wish it wasn't such a leecher connection but that's what happens when the cable company chases away all the fiber companies
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03:02<FiendKing04>"The cat genie is like my cat.. self-washing!"
03:02<FiendKing04>I love infomercials. XD
03:02<FiendKing04>Ya', my connection is the same way.
03:03<FiendKing04>I want AT&T U-Verse so badly.
03:03<FiendKing04>I just realized.
03:03<FiendKing04>I think I only have DVD's. XD
03:03*FiendKing04 checks.
03:03<craigevil>sney`: there is debtorrent> debtorrent - bittorrent proxy for downloading Debian packages , and apt-transport-debtorrent - an APT transport for communicating with DebTorrent
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03:04<sney`>craigevil: neat
03:04<sney`>is it well populated enough to be worthwhile?
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03:04<craigevil>not sure, you can check out the Homepage:
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03:06<FiendKing04>It's be interesting to use.
03:09<FiendKing04>Integrates with the ATP? Cool. :)
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03:13<FiendKing04>One of the other things I like is that it uses GNOME by default.
03:14<sney`>that's one of the more controversial things. the war between kde and gnome can get very bitter
03:14<sney`>but both are available and neither is *really* favoured over the other beyond tasksel
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03:16<FiendKing04>I like KDE... but I also really like GNOME... the only reason I use KDE, though, is if it's the default user interface, otherwise I just leave as is... especially if it's GNOME or even Compiz by default, which I've seen.
03:17<craigevil>ran kde for years, gave up on it when kde4 came out, i've been happily using lxde since kde4 hit unstable
03:17<sney`>debian's defaults are geared towards usability, which gnome fulfills.
03:17<sney`>yeah I'm on lxde right now, it's a little feature light but it's quick on my netbook
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03:20<FiendKing04>Cool. :)
03:20<FiendKing04>I'll check it out.
03:20<FiendKing04>That's one of the things I love about Linux.
03:20<FiendKing04>There's so many choices.
03:21<FiendKing04>You can pick every little thing that you do or do not want, depending on what your computer can or cannot handle, and what you like.
03:21<FiendKing04>The level of customization is pretty much unmatched by anything else.
03:23<paranoidphreak>hi everybody, is there anyway to make a wifi card function as a repeater?
03:24<sney`>probably. hostap can make it function as an access point, so look into something related
03:25<paranoidphreak>sney`: thanks for pointing me into the right direction
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03:34<opticon>i wonder why the mscorefonts package doesnt show up in the repo
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03:35<opticon>the packages that dont show up their does it mean somethings wrong with it?
03:35<gsimmons>dpkg: tell opticon -about msttcorefonts
03:36<FiendKing04>Hello. :)
03:37<opticon>i already have it installed was just wondering
03:37<opticon>to used to those fonts
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03:45<FiendKing04>Hello. =]
03:45<chant>I'm running rs780 head everything, and my colours are really messed up
03:45<chant>with radeon KMS
03:46<chant>lots of on-screen corruption, but still useable.
03:46<chant>most of the corruption is in window-manager decoration actually.
03:46<chant>pretty neat that it works though :)
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03:47<FiendKing04>I got almost nothing from that. :P
03:47*FiendKing04 am n00b.
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04:25<yang_>Hey, Xorg will only start as root. were should i start looking ?
04:31<jmm>to the screen
04:31<jmm>this one ->
04:31<FiendKing04>Well, that sucked.
04:31<FiendKing04>The one blank CD I had crapped out on me.
04:32<FiendKing04>So I had to burn a 150MB file to a DVD. :S
04:32<yang_>alephnull: i think permission problem xauth: error in locking authority /home/yang/,Xauthority
04:33<FiendKing04>What is Xorg? :P
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04:33<alephnull>yang_: Check the permissions on that file.
04:33<FiendKing04>The X Window Manager?
04:34<alephnull>!tell FiendKing04 about xorg
04:34<yang_>doesn't exist
04:34<FiendKing04>So I was right.
04:34<FiendKing04>I'm on the site.
04:34<FiendKing04>Just wanted to make sure it was the same thing.
04:34<alephnull>That should be .Xauthority, not ,Xauthority.
04:35<alephnull>Should be owned by you with more 600.
04:35<alephnull>yang_: Have you been messing with the files in /etc/X11 ?
04:36<yang_>alephnull: ty for help i have rw on file. and no. just installed inside vm. upgraded to sid and bam x wont start .
04:37<yang_>alephnull: however sudo su then startx gives me a KDE desktop session no issues
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04:40<alephnull>yang_: Run it as your user and look in the log file. Look at the man page of Xorg to see how to increase the verbosity of logs, if needed.
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04:43<yang_>alephnull: ty
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04:44<FiendKing04>O.K., so I'm acting like a giddy little school girl right now. :P
04:45<FiendKing04>I installed XP on my main 160, and now I'm installing Debian on my slave 40. :D
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05:01<FiendKing04>My computer has been "retrieving" util-linux for like fifteen minutes now... but I can hear the HDD working, so... is it just a really big file, or what?
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05:04<tester>ANY CHANNEL FOR avlINUX___
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05:20<gsimmons>tester: AV Linux does not appear to have an IRC channel. You can use their forum for support of your distribution, it is off-topic in here.
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05:23<gsimmons>FiendKing04: The package is ~500 kB on stable, depending on architecture. You can check the installer's progress at the fourth console (Alt+F4).
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05:25<tester>Ok gsimmns thanks
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05:26<FiendKing04>It passed that... but thanks. :D
05:26<FiendKing04>It's going really slow for some reason, though. :S
05:27<FiendKing04>I can see the progress.
05:27<FiendKing04>I'm using Graphical Expert mode.
05:33*FiendKing04 pokies the Debian installer with a stick.
05:33<FiendKing04>What's the normal installation time?
05:33<FiendKing04>Everything else was quick.. both CD's I've used have taken FOREVER on this step, though. :(
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05:58<pantelis>what exactly does the command dhclient -i eth1??
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06:11<phlack>Hi, I was wondering could someone help me, I'm trying to get Wifi Working on the latest Debian on a Dell D630, I have had a look online but there is a lot of conflicting info
06:11<phlack>I'm a relative linux newb so be gentle
06:11<FiendKing04>You, too? :D
06:12<FiendKing04>I've been in this channel for six hours learning about Debian and GNU/Linux.
06:12<Nemoder>!tell phlack about wifi
06:13<phlack>hehe I have some linux knowledge, not a massive amount, this wireless problem is a bit of a stumbling block
06:13<FiendKing04>I just restored my computer.
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06:14<FiendKing04>Put XP on the main 160, and I'm now installing Debian on the slave 40.
06:14<phlack>yeah I just did my first debian build
06:14<FiendKing04>For some reason it's taking FOREVER, though. :(
06:14<phlack>I have used ubuntu quite extensively and a few of the security distros
06:14<fossiiil>pray for good Lord, FiendKing04
06:14<phlack>but I still count myself as a noob
06:15<fossiiil>hahaha, security distros
06:15<gsimmons>phlack: Please pastebin the output of "lspci -nn | grep Network" from your system ; /msg dpkg paste
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06:15<phlack>ok gsimmons will do, give me a couple of mins
06:16<fossiiil>you're lame noob
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06:16<FiendKing04>I know I am. :P
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06:18<FiendKing04>Configuring libuuid1... <-- it's been doing that for a while now.
06:18<FiendKing04>Like... a half hour.
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06:18<FiendKing04>It's not frozen, though.
06:18<FiendKing04>HDD is working, and the light is blinking.
06:19<Nemoder>sounds like either a scratched disc or some weird dma problem
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06:19<FiendKing04>Not scratched, it's brand new.
06:21*FiendKing04 am Linux n00b.
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06:21<dpkg>hmm... dma is (Direct Memory Access) PCs have DMA channels that allow certain devices to directly access memory in order to speed up the process.
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06:21<FiendKing04>I just checked that exact site. XD
06:22<Nemoder>in some rare cases the bios will report settings incorrectly to the kernel
06:22<phlack>gsimmons: getting the message wish I knew phlack, I assume that's not good
06:22<FiendKing04>So I should check my BIOS, possibly reset, and try again?
06:22<gsimmons>dpkg: paste
06:22<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or for pics. Use for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>.
06:22<phlack>yeah I used my pastebin
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06:23<phlack> /msg dpkg
06:23<phlack>is that the correct format?
06:23<Nemoder>FiendKing04: another possibility is hardware conflict, if say your cdrom and slave drive are on the same cable but dont like each other or need jumpers moved around
06:24<FiendKing04>On XP it was working great.
06:24<FiendKing04>DVD and CD are on one.
06:24<FiendKing04>The two HDD's are on the second.
06:24<FiendKing04>I was hoping to do a dual-boot.
06:24<Nemoder>FiendKing04: you can hit ctrl-alt-f2 in the installer at any time to switch to a terminal, check dmesg output there
06:24<FiendKing04>I tried it before with only one.
06:24<FiendKing04>Even when using the Graphical Expert mode?
06:25<Nemoder>yes, (i think it's ctrl-alt-f7 to get back)
06:25<FiendKing04>It's something about failed optcode.
06:25<FiendKing04>Reason unknown.
06:26<Nemoder>sounds like it's just having trouble reading the disc
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06:27<Nemoder>are there a lot of I/O errors?
06:27<FiendKing04>It keeps trying over and over.
06:27<FiendKing04>Seems like the only error.
06:27<FiendKing04>Filled up the whole screen.
06:27<Nemoder>yeah, I see those a lot on damaged discs
06:27<FiendKing04>I'm going to shut it off, check BIOS settings, check the DVD, and restart.
06:28<Nemoder>i'd burn another disc if possible
06:28<FiendKing04>My last CD crapped out on me.
06:28<FiendKing04>So I have to use DVD's for a 150 MB file. XD
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06:28<Nemoder>or use a different cdrom drive if you can get one
06:28<Nemoder>some dvd readers have problems with burned discs
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06:29<Nemoder>though if it's the same drive you burned it with then i would think it would be ok if the disc itself wasn't bad
06:29<FiendKing04>I hope not... I have a DVD and CD. :S
06:29<FiendKing04>No, it's different drive.
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06:29<FiendKing04>This computer is the one I burned it with.
06:29<FiendKing04>I used PowerISO, and it verified all the files.
06:30<gsimmons>phlack: The paste URL in here is sufficient. You are required to use Broadcom's driver for support of your device (alternatively NDISwrapper). See
06:31<FiendKing04>O.K, restarting it.
06:31<FiendKing04>Thanks for helping so far. :)
06:32<phlack>thanks Gsimmons
06:32<phlack>I'll look into it
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06:38<buffoon>hi! I have a DHCPD server running on debian lenny. It works fine except for a windows 7 client. When I'm sniffing the network I see that it gets a DCHPOFFER but the source address is Can I change that behavior?
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06:39<erKURITA>So, the DHCPOFFER comes from Win7
06:40<erKURITA>And its src addr is, right?
06:40<buffoon>erKURITA: no, the DHCPOFFER comes from the Debian server
06:40<buffoon>but the src addr is localhost broadcasted on the 2nd layer broadcast
06:40<buffoon>I'll paste the dhcpd.conf...
06:41<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or for pics. Use for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>.
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06:42<erKURITA>Looks legit
06:43<buffoon>yep... I just don't know why it broadcasts the localhost address instead of the real address (which would be
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06:44<erKURITA>Just in case, is that the IP the dhcpd server is bound to?
06:45<buffoon>hmm, I bound it to the interface eth0 in /etc/default/dhcp3-server
06:45<buffoon>oh, I guess I'm looking at the wrong conf file...
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06:47<buffoon>this is the /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf file
06:47<erKURITA> primary; <=
06:47<erKURITA>line 13
06:48<buffoon>isn't that just for the key updates?
06:48<buffoon>should I put the IP of the server there?
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06:49<erKURITA>The primary statement specifies the IP address of the name server whose zone information is to be updated. <= from the dhcpd.conf(5) man page
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06:50<erKURITA>If the bind server is there, then leave it
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06:51<buffoon>yep, it is there...
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06:52<FiendKing04>It's doing it again!
06:52<FiendKing04>I'm going to try to burn another one.
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06:54<erKURITA>FiendKing04 checksum the DVD ISO
06:55<FiendKing04>How do I do that?
06:55<FiendKing04>This computer has XP on it.
06:57<erKURITA>Get HashTab (google it) and MD5 checksum the ISO; get the MD5 checksum from where you got that ISO and compare both checksums to see if they match. If they don't the ISO is corrupt or incomplete.
06:58<FiendKing04>I'm using PowerISO to burn another one, and it verifies the files.
06:58<FiendKing04>But I will try that.
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06:58<erKURITA>It matters little if the burn is succesful if the ISO itself is corrupt
06:59<dorival>alguém pode me ajudar me programação em python
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06:59<FiendKing04>I hope I didn't just waste TWO DVD's.
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07:00<FiendKing04>How do I use HashTab?
07:00<FiendKing04>It only shows an uninstall.exe and a .dll in the folder.
07:00<erKURITA>Once installed, right-click the file you want to checksum and select Properties
07:01<FiendKing04>Something about a Shelly extension?
07:01<erKURITA>One of the tabs in the Properties window will be the HashTab
07:01<FiendKing04>I see. :D
07:01<erKURITA>That's why it's called HashTab :p
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07:01<FiendKing04>What do I compare it to?
07:01<FiendKing04>The file online?
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07:02<Nemoder>if you got the iso from a debian mirror there should be a .md5 in the same folder
07:02<FiendKing04>I got it from there using BitTorrent.
07:02<buffoon>erKURITA: got it now... I changed the server-identifier option to the ip address instead of the DNS name... now it works
07:02<erKURITA>buffoon good to know :)
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07:03<buffoon>strange the it works on every OS except win7....
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07:04<Nemoder>FiendKing04: or check the 64bit folder if that's the iso you ahve
07:04<sellam>lenny est vraiment intéressante et en plus elle libre et complète
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07:05<FiendKing04>The hash matches.
07:05<FiendKing04>I copied and pasted into the compare section and green check mark appeared.
07:05<FiendKing04>For MD5.
07:05<erKURITA>Okay then
07:05<erKURITA>It's good
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07:05<FiendKing04>That's good. :)
07:05<sellam>dpkg est aussi efficace pour installet et désinstaller pakages .deb
07:05<dpkg>parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about, sellam
07:06<FiendKing04>I'm going to try this one that I just burned.
07:06<Nemoder>if the 2nd burned disc fails then it's most likely the drive with a problem
07:06<FiendKing04>Ya'... so then I'll try MY dual-layer DVD. :D
07:06<FiendKing04>DVD burner, I mean.
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07:25<pope>hi! does lenny install gnome or kde (which version) as default?
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07:28<gsimmons>pope: GNOME (2.22, with some 2.20 portions).
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07:29<FiendKing04>Morning all. =]
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07:29<pope>gsimmons: can i change this during installation to kde4 or should i better install no desktop at the first place and then use apt-get install kde or sth? i dont want to have a gnome but kde4 =)
07:29<FiendKing04>Trying to get Debian to work.
07:30<bittin>:o why dosen't it?
07:30<FiendKing04>Possibly bad DVD.
07:30<cmot>pope, lenny doesn't have kde4
07:30<FiendKing04>Or possibly bad DVD burner,.
07:30<gsimmons>pope: You can elect to install KDE (/msg dpkg install kde), but KDE 4 is not available for Lenny.
07:30<FiendKing04>As in... not in the repos, or literally unsupported?
07:30<cmot>pope, so just install lenny without desktop (text only), then update to squeeze, then install KDE.
07:31<cmot>KDE4 in squeeze has proven quite stable for me.$
07:31<bittin>testing is pretty stable :)
07:32<cmot>With the exception of network-manager which currently refuses to work for me. (I'll be asking about that later, with details...)
07:33<cmot>(... or is there an alternative GUI to networking which does wired, wireless and handles PPTP?)
07:33<pope>gsimmons, cmot: i've always used testing now and kde4 works fine for me. but now i have to install a new computer with testing but yesterday some guys in this channel recommended to install lenny and upgrade to testing rather than installing testing directly (they said it has broken installer most of the time). thats why i'm asking. so yup i think i'll install squeeze with no desktop, upgrade to testing and install kde4
07:33<Nemoder>that's the best way to go
07:33<pope>cmot: i use wicd, which works pretty fine for wired and wireless but oo don't know about pptp
07:34<cmot>pope, I've recently used a snapshot of squeeze installer without problems, but the issue is that the weekly/daily snapshots will potentially have a different set of problems each version.
07:34<cmot>The installer definitely is not finished yet.
07:35<pope>cmot: thanks, thats good to know
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07:35<FiendKing04>What's so wrong with GNOME? :)
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07:36<pope>FiendKing04: maybe its tradition that i prefer kde over gnome. maybe there was i time when it looked to ugly... i don't know anymore... just a habit i guess =)
07:37<cmot>KDE is just superior.
07:37*cmot ducks and hides
07:38<babilen>!start a wm war
07:38<dpkg>wmaker blows goats!
07:39<locklace>!start a desktop war
07:39<dpkg>KDE is better than GNOME, period.
07:40<Nemoder>and xfce is better than both!
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07:41<cmot>And why does anybody need X at all? Textmode is sufficiant for all needs.
07:41<cmot>Emacs and GNUS,
07:41<cmot>Especially 80x25 text mode on a 26" screen.
07:41<Nemoder>how is the emacs OS doing these days?
07:41<FiendKing04>pope: That's fine, just wondering.
07:42<FiendKing04>I used KDE on PCLinuxOS, but I prefer to use the default, and since that's GNOME... :P
07:42<FiendKing04>After I started using GNOME, I just got addicted to it.
07:42<FiendKing04>Like I said earlier, though, that's the great thing about Linux.
07:42<FiendKing04>So many choices. :)
07:42<FiendKing04>So many FREE choices.
07:44<jmm>even bad choices are free :)
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07:45<FiendKing04>So, I'm gonna' be pissed if Windows doesn't want to work with my audio, but Debian does natively.
07:45<FiendKing04>Like, I'll be seriously upset.
07:45<FiendKing04>I haven't had sound on my other computer for weeks.
07:45<Nemoder>what card/chip?
07:45<FiendKing04>Every AC'97 I attempted to installed crashed.
07:45<FiendKing04>Apparantly, a SoundMAX.
07:46<Nemoder>check lspci output for chipset
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07:46<FiendKing04>Only reason I found that out is I FINALLY managed to find the model number, went on Intel's website... and then I shot my computer, because Intel has an automated thing that automatically sees that information, and shows direct download links for all missing drivers.
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07:49<FiendKing04>SOUND! :D
07:50<pope>FiendKing04: now i can rember my main motivation for kde. i'd like to have all text, decorations, paddings, margins etc as small as possible and always there were kde themes which pretty much did this but gnome always tended to use large areas for each controls. but maybe clearlook fixed this now.
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08:16<bacdec>buenos dias a todos
08:17-!-mode/#debian [+l 386] by debhelper
08:17<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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08:18<bacdec>alguien podria ayudarme tengo una lenovo 9645 y no tiene sonido y no se como configurarla
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08:19<dr|z3d>!tell bacdec about es
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08:19<dr|z3d>bacdec: acqui, ingles. #debian-es, espanol. gracias.
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08:36<cmot>Updated X to experimental (xserver-xorg-intel and all dependencies)
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08:36<cmot>Now suddenyl display DPI is set to 96 instead of the correct ca 134.
08:36<cmot>Anybody knwos why?
08:36<flower>how do I forward a port? should I enter an 192.* address to handle the router or the address I get on
08:36<bem>good morning to all
08:36<babilen>cmot: you installed the experimental packages
08:36<cmot>babilen, correct
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08:36<babilen>cmot: that is why
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08:36<cmot>babilen, thanks a lot :-/
08:37<cmot>... and anyone who actually might help, perhaps?
08:37<cmot>It's a bug that probably should be taken care of after all.
08:37<bem>maybe ask my problem?
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08:37<babilen>cmot: Why did you do that? I am sure, that you could debug the issue, but I am not familiar enough to help you with that.
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08:38<cmot>babilen, (i) because experimental is there to be tested. And (ii) because the current squeeze intel driver occasionally crashed.
08:38-!-Guiiks_ [] has joined #debian
08:38<dpkg>experimental is the bleeding edge of Debian Development. Packages here have been deemed unfit/DANGEROUS/untrustworthy/etc for release by the maintainer responsible for them. DO NOT INSTALL PACKAGES FROM EXPERIMENTAL WITHOUT KNOWING EXACTLY WHY AND WHAT YOU ARE DOING. #debian does _not_ support experimental. For an actual description, see section of the Developer's Reference.
08:39<cmot>babilen, Yeah, but perhaps somebody is inclined to...
08:39<cmot>or has made the experience.
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08:40<babilen>cmot: yes sure. I am just telling you that *I* am not familiar enough with xorg (packaging) to debug this issue.
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08:41<bem>I have an eee box B202 but during the installation of debian, the installer don't know the ethernet card.
08:41<bem>lspci indicated this:
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08:41<bem>ethernet controller: JMicron Technologies, Inc. Device 0250 (rev 11)
08:41<bem>i think that I have an JMicron JMC250 Gigabit NIC
08:41<bem>how i can load the driver?
08:41<dr|z3d>bem: You need a custom kernel.
08:41<bem>how i can this?
08:41<bem>(thanks for the reply)
08:41<dr|z3d>!fgi eeepc custom linux kernel
08:41<dpkg>eeepc: linux kernel
08:41<grondilu>Hi, I have a remote machine to whom I connect with ssh, but only as root. How can I connect as a normal user ? Which config file should I modify ?
08:42<dr|z3d>!fgi bem eeepc custom linux kernel
08:42<dpkg>bem: custom linux kernel
08:42<bem>but eee box is not a eee pc
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08:42<dr|z3d>Oh? Box you say? Well, modify your google query accordingly. ;)
08:42<bem>you think that JMicron JMC250 Gigabit NIC will be supported?
08:43<dr|z3d>In a custom kernel, sure, if one's available.
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08:43<bem>but i think that i can boot with a normal debian installer
08:43<bem>and after to load the module
08:43<bem>is not the same?
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08:44<dr|z3d>You might find a later kernel fixes your issue.
08:44<dr|z3d>Or you may find using ndiswrapper helps.
08:44<dpkg>NDISwrapper is a way to wrap Windows XP drivers so they can be used in Linux (x86 or x86-64 only). If there is a Linux driver for your device, first consider that instead, for wireless LAN ask me about <wireless>; if there isn't, ask me about <ndiswrapper one-liner> to install. 16-bit PC Card (PCMCIA) devices are not supported. #ndiswrapper on
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08:44<Yon89>hello all
08:44<bem>mmm but i have an ethernet card, not wireless card
08:44<bem>it's the same?
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08:45<dr|z3d>ndiswrapper loads windows device drivers.. mainly used for wireless, but can be used elsewise.
08:45<locklace>bem: paste the same lspci output line but with "lspci -nn" instead
08:46<Yon89>can someone help me with a mdadm aray that drops a disk at boot
08:46<jelly>Hi, my VM Debian 5.0 cannot detect when /dev/sda device grows in size. It has the root filesystem on it, directly on the device, no partitions. After doing echo 1 > /sys/block/sda/device/rescan, fdisk -l or blockdev --getsize64 still sees the old device size. However /sys/block/sda/size shows the grown size, so at least the low-level scsi driver figured out the change.
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08:46<jelly>How can I grow the root filesystem online without adding a new physical device?
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08:47<dr|z3d>jelly: gparted, perhaps.
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08:47<dr|z3d>(assuming you have slack space on a contiguous partition).
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08:49<bem>this is the screenshoot
08:49<bem>(about the "lspci -nn" )
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08:49<jelly>dr|z3d: No, Linux kernel cannot update the in-memory partition table when any partition is in use.
08:50<jelly>dr|z3d: that's what I tried evading by not using partititons at all.
08:50<dr|z3d>jelly: You'd use gparted from a live disc.
08:50<jelly>dr|z3d: that's not online.
08:50<locklace>bem: that screenshot is cutting off critical characters at the right margin
08:50*dr|z3d shrugs.
08:50<Titan8990>jelly, i think there is a tool in the parted suite will do that
08:50<jelly>Titan8990: will do what?
08:51<Titan8990>jelly, update your partition table when one is in use
08:51<bem>locklace can you repeat? i don't undestand what do you mean
08:51<jelly>Titan8990: and make the kernel see the changes?
08:51<bem>the device is [197b:02] no?
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08:52<Titan8990>jelly, yes, found it
08:52<Titan8990>jelly, `partprobe`
08:52<locklace>bem: maybe
08:52<locklace>judd pciid 197b:0002
08:52<judd>locklace: [197b:0002] is 'Unknown device' from 'JMicron Technology Corp.' with kernel modules 'jmicron', 'ahci' in lenny. See also
08:53<gsimmons>judd: pciid 197b:0250 --release squeeze
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08:53<judd>gsimmons: [197b:0250] is 'JMC250 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller' from 'JMicron Technology Corp.' with kernel modules 'ahci', 'pata_jmicron', 'jme' in squeeze. See also
08:53<locklace>!win gsimmons
08:53<dpkg>Congratulations, gsimmons! You have won a lifetime supply of spam!
08:54<gsimmons>bem: Sounds like you'll need to use kernel 2.6.29 or later for the jme driver. Ask dpkg about kmuto (/msg dpkg kmuto).
08:54<jelly>Titan8990: Ah. I already know how to tell kernel to reread the p.table with fdisk or cfdisk or blockdev --rereadpt. The issue is kernel won't do that if any partition is currently in use (the syscall fails).
08:55<bem>gsimmons i can update the kernel
08:55<bem>to 2.6.29 for to fix the problem
08:55<bem>about the JMicron JMC250 Gigabit NIC
08:55<Titan8990>jelly, ah, ok
08:56<gsimmons>bem: If you are performing a new Debian installation, it may be faster to use the backported installer, which provides a 2.6.30 kernel.
08:56<locklace>bem: use a backport installer image
08:56<locklace>!tell bem about kmuto
08:56*jelly wonders how other virtualization users do their online resize.
08:57<bem>ok thanks to all, i'm reading about this backported installer (I'm sorry, but I don't know it)
08:57<jelly>before virtualization, one would use LVM, add a new physical device, create a pv and add that. But I want to resize the existing device.
08:58<Yon89>i have been looking for the problem with my mdadm and cannot see what the problem is in the messages log . If someone could tell me why my md5 array drops a disk every time i reboot that would be awsome
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09:26<flower>I want to stream tv with vlc via http
09:26<flower>my brother can see an host being up when doing:
09:27<flower>nmap -PN -p port ipaddress
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09:27<flower>but he can't connect with vlc
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09:28<flower>connection failed
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09:28<flower>how come?
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09:55<pope>whats the best filesystem currently?
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09:56<locklace>!start a filesystem war
09:56<dpkg>Who needs a file system? Use orthogonal persistency!
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10:00<pope>sorry, i mean ext3 or reiser, or has something new occured since then?
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10:02<Gathond>pope: ext4 pops to mind
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10:08<valdyn>pope: reiser is pretty useless
10:08<valdyn>i wouldnt trust ext4 to much yet
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10:10<jelly>pope: the best filesystem is one you can trust your data to.
10:10<koollman>jelly: is there such a thing ? :)
10:10<jelly>pope: is absence of that, the one you know most about.
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10:17<babilen>koollman: ext3
10:17<koollman>babilen: I've lost data to every major system out there
10:17<koollman>I trust my backups, not my FS :)
10:17<babilen>koollman: that is good
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10:27<bem>locklace and gsimmons: thanks for the support
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10:27<locklace>bem: did it work
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10:28<bem>unfortunately the driver don't get the IP from dhcp, and if i can set the ip manually the system is blocked
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10:28<sixtila>good morning debian
10:28<bem>i can't enter in other shell with ctrl+shif Fn
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10:28<the-me>Hi. does anyone know a howto for heartbeat with service level failure?
10:28<bem>the system is blocked :(
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10:28<locklace>bem: you switch vt's with alt+Fn
10:29<bem>yes i know, but i can't
10:29<bem>because the system is freeze
10:29<bem>i can reset ;-)
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10:29<bem>i'm finding this link:
10:30<bem>The JMicron(R) PCI-Express Gigabit Ethernet is supported from kernel 2.6.28
10:30<locklace>well, if you even have an interface to set an ip address on, the driver already sees the card
10:30<locklace>you can of course verify that by looking at the output of dmesg or lspci -k
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10:31<bem>locklace: i can't switch to another shell because the system is freeze
10:31<bem>alt+Fn don't work :-)
10:32<locklace>so you said
10:32<pinky_>Hello i have a small question. On debain lenny is it by default blocked to login as root in gnome? I tryed to use a easy way (within gnome) to mount devices. But normaly normal users have no access to mount devices. Is there a way to swtch in some "gnome admin mode" ?
10:32<locklace>a hard freeze like that suggests something broken in the kernel, maybe that driver
10:33<bem>locklace: I think the same
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10:34<locklace>you could try your luck with a squeeze installer image, not sure if it'd be any different
10:34<bem>I think that I can use the squeeze
10:34<bem>yes :-)
10:34<bem>I can do this from USB media, because the eee box don't have the dvd support :-)
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10:35<bem>i can find the boot.img.gz about the squeeze
10:35<locklace>judd kernel --release squeeze
10:35<judd>locklace: Available kernel versions are: squeeze: 2.6.30-2-686 (2.6.30-8squeeze1)
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10:35<jmm>heh guys, I got a compaq proliant server here, with 2 hard disks . there is a raid controller too. when I look to the raid config it's write raid 0+1 . since I have 2 disks, how it's possible ?
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10:35<locklace>the squeeze kernel is pretty much the same as the lenny backport installer kernel, though
10:36<bem>Let's hope all goes well...
10:36<guy>Does anyone know where I can get gtk libgtk1.2-dev and gtkglarea5-dev - I'll build from source, if anyone knows of a repository for them
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10:37<khaije|calli>why have a seperate irc server apart from freenode?
10:37<guy>My searches have turned up one single repository, and git fails repeatedly - I think the repo is down
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10:38<bem>locklace: where i can find the boot.img.gz ? of distro squeeze?
10:39<sixtila>how do i fix this error - corrupted filesystem tarfile -
10:39<sixtila>while trying to install gnome-system-tools
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10:40<bem>locklace: and after i will copy the debian-testing-i386-CD-1.iso on the USB
10:40<bem>(after the zcat and mount it)
10:41<locklace>bem: also see
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10:42<bem>locklace: yes i know, thanks a lot
10:42<bem>I'm testing it and I will inform you :-)
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10:48<Neeblor>anyone know of a good socks5 proxy server for debian?
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10:48<gsimmons>guy: Both packages were removed from Debian post-Lenny, to resolve bugs #520441 and #520527 respectively.
10:50<Neeblor>isn't tsocks just a wrapper?
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10:57<bem>locklace: i have digit: zcat boot.img.gz > /dev/sdXXX
10:57<bem>i can download the iso, also?
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11:00<bem>i'm downloading "debian-testing-i386-netinst.iso" ... I hope that it will work :-)
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11:01<dr|z3d>bem: Should work fine. You might want to burn onto usb stick with unetbootin.
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11:04<bem>ok I'm trying with canonical method
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11:10<babilen>!tell bem -about usb install
11:11<babilen>bem: the 'easy method' in the installation guide works well. Remember to copy the iso and *not* the contained files to the stick
11:12<bem>babilen: thank you! :-)
11:16<bem>locklace: i have the same problem with squeeze installer :( the system is freeze after I can set manually the IP
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11:19<locklace>bem: next option then is to find/make a livecd with a working kernel (maybe .32) and install via debootstrap
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11:28<bem>locklace: please see this picture:
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11:29<bem>when I request an IP from DHCP
11:29<Bernd_amd64>how can I chain or stack ssh tunnels ? eg. Client -> SSH1 -> SSH2 -> Server
11:31<bem>locklace: I have attached the eee box (1000Mbps ethernet card) to a router with 100Mbps .. I don't think that this is the problem. What do you think?
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11:32<locklace>bem: no, i think it's driver fail
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11:33<beefbox>anybody else experiencing sudden compiz failure today?
11:33<bem>locklace: what do you suggest me? do you have see the screenshoot?
11:34<locklace>bem: yes. see above suggestion about debootstrap
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11:34<bem>locklace: different to debian? you mean an livecd...for example?
11:35<locklace>bem: or liveusb or whatever. it doesn't have to be debian
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11:35<locklace>!tell bem about debootstrap
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11:37<bem>locklace: ok, I'm reading this article, as usual thank you for the support :-)
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11:41<Titan8990>bem, IMO, that article is terrible
11:41<Titan8990>much better information in the install guide
11:42<Titan8990>IIRC, that article is basically a copy and paste of the man page (which is also terrible)
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11:58<xover>hi all, when I 'dd' an entire OS, and swap HDD around the system does not boot, what is the reason for this?
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11:59<valdyn>xover: how does one "dd an OS" ?
11:59<valdyn>xover: last i checked dd works on files
11:59<dr|z3d>xover: Might be the way the drives are configured.. master/slave/cable selct.
12:00<Gathond>xover: dd just makes a block for block copy of whatever you ask it to, so copying the entire disk contents requires the destination machine to see that disk placed in the same "location" as in the old one for it to actually boot successfully from it
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12:02<xover>dd if=/dev/sdb1 of=/dev/sdc1
12:03<xover>Gathond, not sure I entirely follow you there.
12:03<xover>Actually the disk is flash.
12:04<xover>no worries I will have it as a project, figure it out making a bootable USB disk.
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12:06<Gathond>xover: that after copying it if the booting system does not see the disk at the position it expects from the old one it will not boot it, but since you say you swapped them this is not likely to be the case
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12:08<bem>locklace: please explain me what I can do. I can install debian from debootstrap, right?
12:10<xover>I guess the ID is different for that new disk but not sure how that would cause an issue as its only a link
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12:15<xover>After all acronis does a low level copy of the entire disk and will work when deployed onto a different physical disk
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12:39<xover>bem: what is your issue?
12:44<bem>xover: hi, i don't start with debian on my eee box :(
12:45<xover>what is an eee box?
12:46<bem>xover: i'm trying to deploy squeeze or other kernel version, but the system don't retry the IP, with this error:
12:46<Titan8990>xover, its an asus netbook
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12:48<bem>I'll try the locklace suggest (debootstrap). In this moment I'm trying with a live distro. Because I want to be sure that there are not vendor problem
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13:30<bem>locklace: are you here?
13:33<bem>locklace: i have resolved my problem with kubuntu distro live usb. in this moment I want deploy the lenny distro, but I don't know how I can deploy the firmware for the ethernet device :(
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13:34<momoko>hello everybody
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13:59<heparc>dépot for icedove 3 on AMD64 ?
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14:01<nick>any1 alive?
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14:17<bem>good night to all, we will see tomorrow.
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15:31<Millers>hello all to Gahter
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16:42<kfank>How do I set the time and date in Gnome (lenny)? The Time and Date Settings page is set to manual, but when ever I try to enter a new time/date it reverts back to the current setting after a few seconds.
16:43<dr|zed>kfank: aptitude install ntp
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16:43<dr|zed>That'll sync you to an atomic clock.
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16:51<kfank>dr|zed: thanks, it's correct now.
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16:57*dr|z3d sets his wristwatch by kfank.
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17:00<staspika>Hi. I consider to transfer to Debian from Ubuntu. I've found out how to do almost anything I like in Ubuntu which is not by default in Debian. There is only one thing I cannot google out. In Ubuntu, when any user starts for example synaptic, he uses his own password to get administrative rights, the same with sudo. Debian doesn't use sudo this way. Is there any way to make Debian Squeeze to preconfigure the list of sudoers by the Ubuntu way? This
17:00<staspika>is the last thing I really need, and I decided to install Debian on my main computer after I find out how to do it. Can anyone give me some helpful advice?
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17:01<@Ganneff>simply copy a sudoers from your ubuntu system.
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17:05<staspika>Ganneff, I considered this option, but it seems a kind of dirty trick. I would prefere to find out how Ubuntu is configured to do what it does, and do the same with my installation of Debian. As far as I am conserned, it is not only about the sudoers file, it is also about how the tools in System -> Administration is configured, for example. If I just copy my sudoers to Debian, the system will still require the users to strike in the root password.
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17:06<@Ganneff>it is their way of using sudo. if you want that way, copy it. (they also use some $desktop-env-get-root tool, that then call sudo instead of su)
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17:06<@Ganneff>what that tool is named i dont know, im not using ubuntu or such crappy desktop environments
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17:07<staspika>Ganneff, thank you for information.
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17:07<@Ganneff>kdesudo is one apt-cache suggests. or gksu, gnome-sudo, stuff like that
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17:14<trmanovo>does «my passport essential 500 gb» work well with linux?, my system is having problem mounting it (lenny)
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17:20<edbian>I just bought a domain and I'm going to set up my own email server using debian. Is it especially difficult? I'm hoping that it is equally difficult as is setting up a webserver
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17:27<opticon>just remember to have dns mx records configured right
17:28<staspika>edbian, I think it is as easy as to type in #tasksel and choose the "Mail server" task.
17:29<edbian>staspika, What? What is #tasksel ? an irc channel?
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17:29<trmanovo>edbian, tasksel is a command, type it in a terminal
17:29<staspika>edbian, Well, no. It means to start the program tasksel as a root user.
17:30<dpkg>well, tasksel is a program to select and install "tasks": a collection of packages for a system to perform a specific task (e.g. desktop environment, web server). Ask me about <standard task>, <server tasks> and <laptop task>.
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17:31<opticon>edbian before you start you should make sure port 25 is open inbound and outbound from your isp connection
17:32<opticon>not sure what you would use in debian to check that
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17:37<edbian>opticon, I know how to set up the ports. Thank you! Is 25 ingoing and outgoing mail?
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17:39<opticon>send and recieves are done on port 25 tcp
17:39<usuario>estoy aqui
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17:40<opticon>usually isp's block port 25
17:40<opticon>if port 80 is open for you good chance port 25 will be as well
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17:41<opticon>that is from your isps connection to you not on firewall you may have
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17:47<opticon>configuring mail server and making everything work can be complex
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17:47<zewm>its fun tho
17:48<edbian>opticon, I believe that 80 and 25 are open (I have comcast) I don't think they're blocking any ports (which is great!) :)
17:49<zewm>excuse me for being offtopic and maybe offensive, but is there another #kubuntu channel besides the no-person registered one on here?
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17:49<zewm>dude i thought this was freenode
17:49<opticon>i dont know
17:49<edbian>opticon, I am looking into things now. Tell me if I got this all right: A MTA (mail transfer agent) sends a message to another MTA somewhere on the internet. The MDA (mail delivery agent) takes the message and determines if that user in on that server and routes it accordingly.
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17:49<edbian>opticon, Is that all right so far?
17:50<zewm>the MDA sounds good, give me 200mg pls
17:50<opticon>smtp protocol in mail server is responsible for sending and recieving
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17:51<edbian>opticon, smtp protocol? Be more specific. Does the MTA not send messages out and receive them?
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17:52<opticon>well depends on the mail server in exchange mta is disabled smtp is what makes it all happen
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17:53<edbian>I guess I don't really understand what smtp is
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17:53<opticon>i dont know much about mailservers yet in debian so i cant give you much info on that
17:53<edbian>the MTA is a program right? like exim4 or postfix
17:54<edbian>opticon, Ok
17:54<edbian>opticon, Thanks for all of your help :)
17:54<opticon>smtp is mail server protocol
17:54<opticon>which works on port 25
17:54<wnd>iirc exim is debian default
17:55<wnd>I'm happy with it but on the other hand I never tried anything else
17:56<opticon>edbian you seem to be lacking a little in networking without knowing how it all comes together it will be hard
17:56<edbian>opticon, ok but http is a web site protocol. If I don't have a web server I don't have a website. That's why I'm confused when you say that without an MTA smtp will handle the mail
17:56<edbian>opticon, I am lacking, but I'm trying to learn
17:56<edbian>I know vaguely what a protocol is
17:56<edbian>I'm trying to learn right now. I haven't started to set it up yet.
17:57-!-mode/#debian [+l 377] by debhelper
17:57<edbian>I thank both of your for answering my questions :)
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17:59<opticon>well your half right about http but it requires port 80 as you know think of it like this smtp simple mail transfer protocol for port 25
18:00<edbian>got that part
18:00<opticon>i have it right in my head just not so good explaining
18:00<edbian>ha ha
18:00<edbian>no worries
18:00<edbian>You're helpful so far
18:00<edbian>My ports are open, I'm fairly sure
18:01<opticon>did you do the mail server install with taskel
18:01<edbian>I haven't installed it yet
18:01<edbian>I'm not actually setting up right now, just learning about how it will work
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18:02<babilen>edbian: exim4 should be already installed on your system. dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config should be all you need to configure it
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18:02<edbian>babilen, Yeah it is, lovely debian :)
18:03<edbian>babilen, Most of the how to's I've found want me to use postfix (why? and why not exim4) ??
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18:03<babilen>it's two of the big mailservers ... Debian uses exim as default others use postfix.
18:03<opticon>it may be more popular
18:04<babilen>!why exim4
18:04<dpkg>Exim was chosen as the default MTA a long time ago:, or see
18:04<edbian>ha ha
18:04<hackersuky>alguien habla español
18:04<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
18:05<opticon>even my isp uses postfix i believe
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18:05<babilen>edbian: you can also use postfix .. both work great and have a huge userbase
18:05<opticon>well they used to year ago
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18:06<edbian>babilen, I think I'll stick with exim4 simply because it's already installed! :)
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18:06<edbian>opticon, Thanks for the tip about tasksel BTW, I just looked at it. Very handy! :)
18:06<opticon>be sure to check out dns
18:07<opticon>mail servers require that to work as well
18:07<edbian>DNS is working
18:07<opticon>in debian its called bind9
18:07<edbian>I have a FQDN that is working
18:08<opticon>for mangement of mailserver and webserver and bind i use webmin
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18:08<babilen>uh ...
18:08<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, webmin is a lame web-based interface for unsafe system administration for Unix. Check it out at Remember, dondelelcaro *hates* webmin. "i'd rather sit on the floor shoving table knives into live electrical outlets than run webmin on an exposed server." See about the removal. Don't use their .debs, they are of extremely poor quality.
18:09<edbian>I'm a little confused (running through the exim4 reconfigure now) it's asking "what ip address to listen on for incoming smtp connections"
18:09<skulls>yes webmin is so clearly
18:09<edbian>skulls, I was hoping for a more difinitive answer...
18:09<opticon>127 is loopback address
18:09<edbian>yeah I know
18:10<edbian>that's why I guessed it
18:10<hackersuky>por favor diganme un canal en spanish
18:11<dpkg>Hispanohablantes: Por favor /join #debian-es, alli obtendran mas ayuda. Spanish Speakers: Please /join #debian-es, there you will get much more help.
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18:12<linucks>Could anyone please point me in the right direction for documentation/resources to look at in regards to making a Debian based Linux distribution?
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18:13<opticon>if webmins bad their is also ebox
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18:15<dr|z3d>either are fine, so long as they're not net facing. internal use only. ;)
18:15<dr|z3d>webmin is particularly ridiculed here, by some.
18:15<dpkg>webmin is probably a lame web-based interface for unsafe system administration for Unix. Check it out at Remember, dondelelcaro *hates* webmin. "i'd rather sit on the floor shoving table knives into live electrical outlets than run webmin on an exposed server." See about the removal. Don't use their .debs, they are of extremely poor quality.
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18:17<opticon>even facing web i dont see problem by default it comes setup with ssl and basic signed cert
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18:22<edbian>How can I ping port 25 on some ip address locally?
18:23<edbian>ping ?
18:24<locklace>you're joking, right
18:24<Holborn>ping --> send ICMP ECHO_REQUEST to network hosts
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18:25<edbian>that was a slew of non-sense wasn't it?
18:25<edbian>(what I wrote)
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18:27<locklace>but you can telnet to port 25
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18:30<opticon>have a look at that
18:30<edbian>in any event, I'm sorry that I am ignorant with networks (especially the terminology) but I figuered it out! My mail server is listening and responding on port 25 :) which is good. I do have a question though. I sent an email from another email account I have to the server but it was rejected. How do I add users to the exim4 system?
18:35<opticon>i dont know have to look here
18:36<edbian>opticon, thanks
18:37<dpkg>i heard exim is a message transfer agent developed at University of Cambridge for use on Unix systems connected to the internet. It is available under the GPL and the current version in Debian is exim4. Ask me about <exim4> <exim boot stall> <exim flush queue> <why exim>. #exim on and
18:37<noflash>man exim4
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18:40<edbian>maybe you guys can answer this: What happens to email if I have an MTA (exim4) but I don't have an MDA ??
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18:43<opticon>no idea i would suggest once you have it installed and create user mailboxs send test email locally to see it things work internally
18:43<petemc>edbian: exim has a mda
18:43<eightyeight>edbian: exim ships with an mda
18:44<edbian>petemc, I that it was strange that "man sendmail" turned up exim4
18:44<edbian>petemc, eightyeight Thanks! :)
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18:45<petemc>edbian: exim is sendmail compatible
18:45<petemc> /usr/sbin/sendmail is a symlink to the exim binary
18:45<eightyeight>as a result of the alternatives system
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18:46<petemc>you cant have more than one mta
18:46<eightyeight>running, correct
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18:47<eightyeight>maybe not with dpgk, but you can most certainly have more than one mta installed
18:47<petemc>right, within the packaging system
18:47<petemc>so, nothing to do with alternatives
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18:50<eightyeight>interesting. i had never really paid attention to that, but i don't like it, that's for sure
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19:08<target>anyone can help me with sidux?
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19:09<gsimmons>target: Not supported here. Join #sidux on this network.
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19:19<edbian>mhmm, my mail server seems to be blocked due to it's reputation (apparently the people at special domain services Inc. don't approve)
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19:44<Guest1206>estoy practicando con xchat
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19:55<opticon>edbian get it working yet?
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20:00<chocolat888>hi all o/ :)
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20:11<nvz>If I'm installing debian from a usb thumbdrive to a sata hd (that is normally sda) and the usb drive comes up as sda and the hd as sdb, how do I make sure that the grub and fstab are all going to work and be bootable post-install?
20:11<nvz>when I take the install media out the hd will be sda again and everything will be fubar as-is
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20:14<raylu>nvz: you can set the fstab to mount based on UUID
20:15<raylu>i've run into this problem and fixed it with some live media post install
20:15<nvz>I am aware of all that
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20:15<nvz>that still doesnt boot the system
20:15<raylu>what doesn't boot the system?
20:16<nvz>grub will try install to either the media I am removing, or to the hd and point to sdb instead of sda
20:16<edbian>opticon, Hi! :( no, I'm having a strange problem. I have a bad reputation according to "special domain services Inc"
20:16<raylu>that's why we're fixing it post-install :D
20:16<nvz>I can't tell it to point to sda because it will scan for partitions and fail because sda is not currently the drive it will be upon reboot
20:16<nvz>I have NOTHING to boot from but the USB stick unless it MAKES something else bootable
20:16<raylu>grub doesn't believe in sda
20:16<nvz>I know it doesnt
20:17<nvz>it sees it as hd0
20:17<raylu>can't you use whatever's on the USB stick to fix it?
20:17<nvz>thats what I'm asking.. lol
20:17<nvz>but if I boot from the usb it becomes sda
20:17<nvz>which is what the hd is when its not there
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20:17<nvz>which is where the problem is
20:17<raylu>what does it matter?
20:18<nvz>maybe it doesnt..
20:18<raylu>just install grub to sdb while the usb stick is in and fix the fstab
20:18<opticon>what you mean bad rep
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20:18<nvz>I'm just forseeing the D-I now running from USB(sda) installing a grub to the hd(now sdb) not booting when I take the usb out and the hd becomes sda again
20:18<raylu>in my experience installing from a usb stick (and i have quite a bit), it doesn't matter
20:18<nvz>well I did it on this netbook obviously cause that was my only option
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20:19<raylu>D-I = ?
20:19<nvz>I'm not finished downloading the desktop system part of the install.. so I haven't actually encountered the issue yet.. I just assumed I would :-P
20:19<nvz>also known as D-I
20:20<nvz>maybe you're right.. as like I said I got it working on this netbook and dont remember having to do anything special
20:21<nvz>I just recall years ago in the rare cases your devices got jumbled around during install it would result in an unbootable system
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20:23<edbian>Can someone help me finish setting up my mail server? When I try to send or receive an email from my server I get some error that I have a "poor reputation" error 544 ??
20:24<nvz>yeah that lingo is unfamiliar to me..
20:25<nvz>its like when I was studying voice removal/isolation last night and running across words like "cepstrum", "quefrency", and "lifter" hah..
20:25<nvz>makes ya wonder about programmers sometimes and the way they chose to describe things
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20:27<nvz>if you can't offer some (any) context to that error I sure as heck can't help ya
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20:27<nvz>googling what you just said, doesn't bring up anything remotely related to linux or mail servers
20:27<nvz>so I guess its not just me who has no idea what you're talking about
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20:28<nvz>there are a plethora of mail server type programs in debian
20:29<nvz>would serve you to be far more specific when asking for help
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20:31<edbian>nvz, Sorry didn't see you were talking to me! I'm here now
20:31<nvz>I'm just passing the time waiting for an install to finish
20:31<edbian>I can be more specific. I'm configuring an exim4 mail server for my newly purchased domain name
20:32<nvz>idly and constructivly critisizing your question asking skills
20:32<edbian>ha ha
20:32<edbian>Any suggestions/questions?
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20:32<edbian>Maybe you can answer me this. How can I send an email on the server from one user to another using the command line? I'm not sure I'm doing it right
20:33<edbian>"mail ed" should do it right?
20:33<opticon>did you ever create mailbox and accounts?
20:33<nvz>my next question after knowing the mail program in question would be WHERE the error is..
20:34<edbian>opticon, I didn't
20:34<edbian>I'm not sure I need to
20:34<edbian>nvz, What do you mean by where is the error?
20:34<opticon>if you dont mailserver is useless
20:35<edbian>opticon, ok thanks
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20:35<sdgf>i want to install debian from usb
20:35<opticon>you also have to configure it to accept mail for your domain
20:36<sdgf>i download debian-live img file
20:36<sdgf>this is correct file for usb installer
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20:36<nvz>edbian: I mean is it comming from your mail client, in your syslog, access log, on the command line of some command.. etc
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20:37<babilen>sdgf: it helps if you just ask in one channel
20:38<sdgf>babilen someone said it is not place to ask this in debian-live
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20:39<edbian>nvz, If I run "exim4 -v" it never gets there
20:39<babilen>sdgf: no, i meant #debian@freenode vs #debian@OFTC
20:39<edbian>nvz, That command tries to send an email to which is a legit email address
20:40<babilen>sdgf: have a look at the install guide. It explains how to create the install stick. And you *don't want* Debian live
20:40<babilen>!usb install
20:40<dpkg>Yes, it is possible to install Debian from a USB stick/thumbdrive/pen drive/key, as long as your system's BIOS can boot from USB. Details are in the Installation Guide, see . To download USB stick images, ask me about <install debian>. (Older, outdated article at BIOS can't boot from USB? Use
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20:41<edbian>nvz, If I run "exim4 -bt ed" which should test my local mailbox It returns "router = nslookup" "transport = remote_smtp" and "host" which is the same people that give the poor reputation error when I try to send an email.
20:42<edbian>nvz, Does any of this make a lot of sense to you??
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20:43<edbian>opticon, what are you laughing at?
20:43<opticon>i think that host is example meant to be replaced by your domain
20:44<edbian>opticon, Are you sure? according to whois is owned by some company in Arizona
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20:45<opticon>well if your running your own mail server and you expect to send and recieve mail for your domain somewhere along the line you also have to configure mailserver to use your domain name
20:46<edbian>opticon, yeah yeah wise guy
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20:46<edbian>opticon, Man this is tough
20:46<edbian>opticon, Thanks for bearing with me
20:47<opticon>im sure that domain is real but like i said i think that was just example left in after default mailserver was installed
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20:47<opticon>it is complicated
20:47<edbian>opticon, yeah I think you're on to something
20:47<edbian>Can you answer me this? How can I send mail locally to another user on my system using the command line
20:48<koollman>edbian: mail anotheruser
20:48<edbian>koollman, can I "mail myself" ??
20:48<opticon>if mailbox exists yes
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20:49<opticon>by that i mean locally on your mailserver
20:49<koollman>mail `whoami`
20:49<edbian>Then i think that's what I need to do!
20:49<edbian>opticon, Wouldn't happen to know who to make a mailbox would you?
20:49<koollman>(that assumes everything is correctly working as it should)
20:49<edbian>I have a /var/mail dir but it's empty
20:49-!-svend [] has joined #debian
20:50<koollman>(which might be the case in a default install)
20:50<edbian>koollman, Which I think it def. is not
20:50<opticon>for exim4 no idea
20:50<edbian>opticon, postfix?
20:51<edbian>I'm getting the impression that the mailboxes are automatically created for the users on the system already
20:51<edbian>cause finding a how to is nearly impossible
20:51<edbian>I'm purging and re-installing exim4
20:51<edbian>well see what that might do
20:51<edbian>opticon, Thanks for all your help BTW!
20:52<opticon>i work with exchange i havent had time to evaulate linux mailserver in great depth but im working on it
20:52<edbian>opticon, cool
20:52<edbian>opticon, Do you do IT for a living
20:53<opticon>im in college
20:53<opticon>but yea i plan to
20:53<koollman>edbian: if you don't mess up with the config too much, mailboxes are created for a user whenever a mail is received if there are no existing mailbox
20:54<edbian>koollman, I didn't touch the configs, I did run "dpkg-reconfigure exim4" a couple times though
20:55<edbian>I have a serious issue here. I can't send local mail
20:55<edbian>I run "mail ed" and enter a subject and the message body.
20:55<edbian>put the period and leave the Cc blank and it appears to send but then I run "mail" and I have no mail! :(
20:56<opticon>maybe kooman can tell you have to configure exim4 to use your external domain and route it out to the net via dns
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20:57<edbian>opticon, I'll start at the beginning of things I don't understand. What is the difference between an internal and external domain? What is my domain? ?
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21:02<edbian>opticon, koollman I have something VERY embarrassing to tell you guys. My domain name was not set up correctly...
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21:03<edbian>opticon, is correct but, points at somebody else. I'll give you a hint, it rhymes with
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21:07<opticon>thats where i know that domain from
21:08<opticon>having dns setup correctly is half the battle
21:08<opticon>alot of people slip up on that
21:08<opticon>once you have a host A record for you domain be sure to create an mx record as well
21:09<opticon>and point it to the right ip address
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21:15<edbian>opticon, Is mx "mail exchange" ??
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21:16<edbian>opticon, My host A is fine BTW
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21:17<opticon>i just setup exim4 in 10mins already got it sending email
21:18<opticon>dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config
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21:18<opticon>used that config command to get it going
21:18<opticon>had no problems
21:18<edbian>opticon, yeah I've been using that. Just rub it in why don't you! :(
21:18<edbian>opticon, Is MX mail exchange?
21:18<opticon>instead of command line i used mail client
21:18<opticon>to send test mail to a real email address
21:19<opticon>i configured it as open relay just to see if it would work and it did
21:19<opticon>open relays tho are not ideal
21:20<edbian>opticon, In my goDaddys (the people I bought from my domain name) there is "Priority" for the MX records. What is priority? It's current set to 0
21:21<opticon>that only matters if you have more than 1 mail server in different locations
21:21<edbian>opticon, oh ok
21:21<opticon>dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config
21:21<opticon>that little command is pretty awsome
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21:22<edbian>opticon, I'm loving it as well!
21:22<opticon>later ill take to time to set it up correctly but i need to look at documentation
21:22<opticon>check out best practices and so forth
21:22<edbian>opticon, Question: If I have the alis "" already pointing at my IP then what does the MX record do?
21:24<edbian>opticon, Also: what does the name server record do? Is that like DNS for my domain name or something?
21:24<opticon>mx records are typically required just so your in compliance with rfc stuff it can actually work with just a host A
21:24<edbian>opticon, You are EXTREMELY helpful :D
21:24-!-freealan [] has joined #debian
21:25<opticon>tho alot of mailservers on the web will reject mail if you dont have a valid mx record
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21:25<edbian>opticon, IC
21:26<opticon>i doubt it does but i wonder if exam4 offers more advanced features like webmail
21:26<edbian>opticon, Not exim4 alone. You have to install squirrel mail or something else.
21:26<edbian>opticon, Question: How can I get "" to point to a specific computer on my network?
21:27<edbian>opticon, Is that possible? Or is it only done by port?
21:27<opticon>you add public ip to domain name
21:28<edbian>can "" point to 1 computer and "" point to another on the same network?
21:28<opticon>if all of your computers have public ips then pick which ever if their all connected to some type of nat device then you have to use the public ip thats assigned to the nat device then port forwarding
21:28<edbian>i only have 1 public IP
21:28<edbian>port forwarding
21:28<edbian>that little gem
21:29<opticon>with exim4 you dont have to create mailboxs i just seen that
21:29<edbian>opticon, Oh good :)
21:29-!-spuddweb [] has joined #debian
21:30<opticon>i made up an account and used it to send test message to a real address but not with a domain name but ip in place of domain
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21:30<opticon>i can show u what i mean what email address can u check
21:30<opticon>ill try sending u test message
21:30<edbian>an email I can check?
21:31<opticon>check it
21:31<edbian>Question: Why does my domain name have a name server record? Why does a domain need DNS servers?
21:31<opticon>already sent
21:31<edbian>opticon, Checking...
21:32<edbian>opticon, Is that your local ip address?
21:32<edbian>ha ha
21:32<opticon>the way i did that is half arsed but it works for testing
21:33<opticon>dns is what makes the internet work
21:33<opticon>think of it as database or phonebook that has names and numbers
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21:34<linucks>Could anyone please point me in the right direction for documentation/resources to look at in regards to making a Debian based Linux distribution?
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21:34<edbian>opticon, I know what DNS does, but is those the only name servers that have my domain in them?
21:35<opticon>well it depends
21:35<opticon>it takes time for dns updates to populate through backbone dns servers around the globe
21:36<koollman>edbian: they aren't. but they are the only ones where it really matters for all the internet
21:36<edbian>koollman, Those are the top tier then huh.
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21:37<edbian>koollman, opticon, suppose I add more name servers to my domain name? Will it populate through the internet faster?
21:37<koollman>edbian: no
21:37<edbian>koollman, opticon, I guess others already thought of that then huh.
21:37<edbian>ha ha
21:37<koollman>more name servers are useful to handle failure of one of them (or to spread the load, but that's rarely an issue)
21:37<opticon>its good to have more than 1 nameserver added incease one fails
21:38<opticon>incase i mean
21:39<edbian>This is going to be a VERY low traffic domain. I don't think I need to worry about load
21:40<rex>i use for my dns because comcast caught on to me and changed my ip
21:40<rex>you can have a script update your ip with automatically
21:41<edbian>rex, How much traffic did it take to tip them off?
21:42<edbian>opticon, Help me out here. is not responding to pings. My MX record says that @ goes to smtp.@ and my alias says that smtp.@ points to @ is that correct?
21:42<opticon>i think what he means is dns for websites opendns is good
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21:43<edbian>I use openDNS
21:44<edbian>but that doesn't answer my question...
21:44<opticon>mx record should have a name not @
21:44<opticon>all that does is point it to the host A record
21:44<edbian>@ is automatically replaced with mydomain by godaddy
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21:45<ilovealcoa>help! i'm trying to install lenny using a usb disk, but the installation program doesn't recognize my hard drive! what to do?
21:45<opticon>for ping to work router has to respond to icmp requests
21:45<edbian>opticon, router forwards port 25 to my mail server (that does repond to pings)
21:46<opticon>how old is their domain you have?
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21:46<edbian>about a day
21:46<edbian>ha ha
21:47<edbian>They said that it takes hours for changes to propigate but I've noticed that it only takes a few minutes
21:47<edbian>I made a new alias "ww.@" and it was working within 5 minutes
21:47<opticon>well if you try and ping the domain and request fails it can mean one of 3 things either it hasnt populated fully from godaddy nameservers or their config error or your router blocks ping requests
21:48<edbian>opticon, So you're saying my domain records are correct?
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21:48<edbian>opticon, The only ping that fails is (I am beginning to think it hasn't propagated yet)
21:48<opticon>i have no idea
21:48<edbian>opticon, ha ha
21:49<opticon>have to test domain online with dns tool
21:49<edbian>opticon, how about dig ?
21:50<edbian>or that
21:51<opticon>i use those sites to check domains for dns config errors
21:51<edbian>opticon, Thanks! Very helpful
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21:53<opticon>looks like you need to make a few changes
21:53<opticon>that smtp you dont want in the mx record
21:53<opticon>thats just a cname
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21:55<opticon>cnames usually associated with service types
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21:55<edbian>opticon, found the problem: MX records are not allowed to point to CNAMES
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21:58<opticon>for mx i recommend adding just the domain name
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22:00<ilovealcoa>help! i'm trying to install lenny using a usb disk, but the installation program doesn't recognize my hard drive! what to do?
22:00<opticon>is it sata?
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22:09<edbian>opticon, Thanks
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22:10<ilovealcoa>opticon: yes, it is sata
22:11<opticon>in the bios whats drive configuration
22:12<opticon>check and see if its achi if it is change to ide
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22:18<ilovealcoa>opticon: not sure what you mean by "drive configuration". i checked around in the bios, the only metion of either ide or achi is under "raid mode" (and these are all set to ide)
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22:21<edbian>opticon, What did you enter for your list of domains for which the machine should consider itself the final destination ??
22:22<opticon>hmm well in that case i would think lenny doesnt have support for your boards sata chipset
22:23<opticon>the current release of debian is old
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22:25<opticon>edbian across the board i used localhost just to see if it would work at all
22:25<edbian>ha ha
22:25<edbian>I'm very confused about something else as well.
22:26<edbian>I removed many records that godaddy had put into my domain for me including smtp.@ and email.@
22:26<edbian>now smtp.@ points to some other IP
22:28<opticon>well the smtp record you can delete that
22:28<opticon>wait let me look at something
22:28<opticon>your confusing me now
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22:32<opticon>yea i was right delete the smtp record thats not needed
22:32<edbian>I don't have an smtp record anymore...
22:32<opticon>create a new host A record called mail.domainnamehere.whatever
22:32<opticon>point it to your ip
22:33<edbian>Do you mean a new alias?
22:33<opticon>then under mx record modify that and put in domain name for host and goes to mail.domainnamehere.whatever
22:33<opticon>not alias
22:33<opticon>host A record
22:33<edbian>k hang on
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22:34<opticon>do it just like that and your dns will be in check
22:35<edbian>MX host should be "" and goes to should be the mail one? How is that different than host @ goes to @?
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22:36<opticon>that @ is only a pointer
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22:37<babilen>you two rock! good night :-D
22:37<opticon>i suppose it doesnt matter but i prefer host name to have a name
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22:38<edbian>babilen, Thanks? :D
22:38<edbian>opticon, I understand
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22:39<babilen>edbian: i was just giving support over at freenode and peeked in here once in a while ... good luck with your mail setup
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22:39<edbian>babilen, Oh ok, thanks for the encouragement! :)
22:39<edbian>opticon, It appears to be working now! :)
22:41<edbian>exim4 -bt ed is reporting correctly that is my mail server and is digging correctly and pinging correctly
22:41<edbian>I'm gonna check using your two websites
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22:41<opticon>play around with it abit im gonna go do some gaming
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22:51<edbian>Hopefully someone else is here that can help me. Should any debian system have a local domain that looks like this? -> ??
22:53<abrotman>you can
22:53<abrotman>oh with two dots ?
22:53<edbian>abrotman, yeah
22:53<edbian>abrotman, Where is that coming from? Is exim4 reading from some config file somewhere?
22:53<abrotman>/etc/mailname ?
22:53<edbian>abrotman, seems like since I have a FQDN I should probably use it. Shouldn't my local domain be something of the form "" ?
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22:54<edbian>abrotman, two dots is def wrong though
22:54<edbian>cat /etc/mailname ->
22:54<abrotman>/etc/hosts? /etc/hostname ?
22:55<edbian>a ha!
22:55<edbian>abrotman, It was in /etc/hosts! Thanks
22:55<edbian>good guess
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23:02<edbian>New Problem! I tried to send an email to a working domain from my server and it got rejected because of the RBL policy. What is that about?
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23:03<kf_>if anyone is chinese?
23:05<edbian>There are people here, we're just not chinese apparently
23:05<rex>just ask you question someone will get back with you
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23:06<kf_>i just install BT4 but my english is pool
23:06<kf_>i want to install a chinese input
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23:07<kf_>anyone help me !thanks a lot!
23:08<kf_>anybody use BT4?
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23:10<dpkg>BackTrack is a Linux distribution based on <Ubuntu> Intrepid (as of BackTrack 4), previously <SLAX>. Derived from merging two penetration-testing distributions: WHAX (formerly WHOPPIX) and Auditor Security Linux. It is not supported in #debian. #remote-exploit on See also <based on debian>.
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23:11<snogglethorpe>(is there a "#based-on-debian"...?)
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23:15<snogglethorpe>!based on debian
23:15<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it probably falls short of Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. If your distribution has an IRC channel, you can use it instead. Even if your distribution has fewer people in its IRC channel, or doesn't have one, support for distributions other than Debian is off-topic on #debian.
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23:25<kf_>another qustions
23:25<kf_>how to install .lzm
23:26<Nemoder>lzm is just a compressed file, extract it and read the docs
23:26<kf_>how to extract
23:26-!-meebey [] has left #debian []
23:26<Nemoder>try unlzma
23:26<edbian>I have a problem: If I run "mail ed" the user ed does not get a message. The /var/mail folder remains empty. What is the deal?
23:26<kf_>OK!thanks a lot
23:27-!-mode/#debian [+l 345] by debhelper
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23:27<edbian>mail gives no errors. Can someone please help?
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23:27<TCW_>grub2 drops me to rescue shell, ls (hd0,2)/ works (hda1 is ntfs, hda2 ext3 and / of the system, one partition for the whole system), ls (hd0,2)/etc/ works, BUT a ls (hd0,2)/boot/ gives me "error: out of disc".
23:27<kf_>nemoder,are you chinese?
23:28<imganquan>kf_: you are chinese?
23:28<kf_>where are you come from?
23:28<dpkg>i guess cn is China, or for help in chinese please join #debian-zh, Please use UTF-8, for IRC help see | Qt/KDE è¿æ¸¡æå¼å§ï¼è¯¦æ请é读
23:28<kf_>i am a chinese
23:28<TCW_>fresh debian lenny install, grub2 selected as it looks nicer (it is a girls laptop *g*)
23:29<kf_>ubuntu,fedora ,which one is better?
23:29<TCW_>kf_, debian :p
23:29<imganquan>kf_: here is a debian channel. So, absolutely debian is the best.
23:29<imganquan>kf_: actually, debian is the best.
23:30<kf_>en,sun solaris,freebsd which one is better?
23:30<TCW_>kf_, apples or oranges, which is best?
23:30<rex>what are you trying to accomplish with your server kf?
23:31<kf_>en,i am just a teacher!
23:31<TCW_>kf_, don't you think it may depend on the personal taste?
23:31<Nemoder>TCW_: maybe the partition was setup incorrectly, check their sizes with cfdisk
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23:31<rex>i like debian
23:32<kf_>where are you come from?
23:32<kf_>i am just know how to tell my students
23:32<TCW_>Nemoder, I can acces /boot/ when I boot with grml, even grub reinstall (chrrot, update-grub) did work without an issue.
23:33<TCW_>Nemoder, but I'll check
23:35<kf_>i want to make a friend with everyone that who love debian!
23:35<TCW_>.oO( that sounds awkward *g*)
23:36<Nemoder>kf_: good luck!
23:37<kf_> unlzma simsun.fcitx.lcd.lzm
23:37<kf_>simsun.fcitx.lcd.lzm: unknown suffix -- unchanged
23:37<kf_>what is mean?
23:37<Nemoder>kf_: try: file simsun.fcitx.lcd.lzm
23:37<Nemoder>that should tell you what it is
23:38<kf_>what can i should do?
23:39<TCW_>Nemoder, partitions look fine, copying data from /boot works as well, I'd say basically the harddisk is fine.
23:41<TCW_>Nemoder, I guess maybe that laptop (a massive packard bell brick from 2005) has an issue with the 160GB drive?
23:41<Nemoder>could be
23:41<kf_>nemoder, are you debian's company export?
23:41-!-jrueperot [~jrueperot@] has joined #debian
23:41<Nemoder>kf_: no, just a user
23:42<TCW_>kf_, *lol*
23:42<kf_>what can i do ?unlzma -d simsun.fcitx.lcd.lzm
23:42<kf_>simsun.fcitx.lcd.lzm: unknown suffix -- unchanged
23:42<kf_>nemoder ,can i join you in msn?
23:43<Nemoder>kf_: i may have been wrong about the file type run "file simsun.fcitx.lcd.lzm" to see what it is
23:44<Nemoder>kf_: no, ask questions in this channel, everyone is here as volunteers or to get help
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23:45<kf_>now i just want to know how to decompress .lzm!
23:46<kf_>thanks a lot !
23:46<Nemoder>kf_: what is the output from file?
23:46<kf_>unknown suffix -- unchanged
23:46<Nemoder>no, the command "file"
23:47<kf_>oh,is a input chinese
23:47<Nemoder>man file
23:47<imganquan>Sorry Nemoder, I have to type some Chinese here.
23:47<kf_>my english is so pool!
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23:48<kf_>yes ,thans a lot!
23:48<imganquan>kf_: 不是問你那個文件是怎麼輸出的。
23:48<kf_>kf@kf-laptop:~$ file simsun.fcitx.lcd.lzm
23:48<kf_>simsun.fcitx.lcd.lzm: data
23:48<imganquan>kf_: 根據你的消息,你應該去查詢一下fcitx的消息,外國人不用fcitx,所以在這裡問是沒有用的。
23:49<kf_>wo neng jia ni ma ?
23:49<imganquan>OK. kf_ ,I think you can understand all the chinese above , so google what I told you.
23:49<Nemoder>oh just data, that means it doesn't know what type of file it is
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23:50<kf_>thank you!i will try it!
23:52<kf_>perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C")
23:52<kf_>what is mean?
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---Logclosed Thu Dec 31 00:00:19 2009