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#debian IRC Logs for 2010-01-06

---Logopened Wed Jan 06 00:00:33 2010
---Daychanged Wed Jan 06 2010
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00:14<Mauro>hello guys
00:15<Mauro>I need some help with the smc2835w on debian 5
00:15<Mauro>I have been trying from prism54 to ndiswrapper for 10 hours straght with no success
00:15<dpkg>methinks adm8211 is a driver for ADMtek ADM8211x-based wireless devices, included in the mainline Linux kernel since 2.6.24. This driver does not require firmware from userspace.
00:16<babilen>ah ..
00:16<gsimmons>babilen: You're way off. :)
00:16<babilen>i just realised that :-)
00:16<gsimmons>Mauro: Sorry, you're trying to use NDISwrapper or the p54 driver with your device?
00:16<goodger>dpkg has gone mad ._.
00:16<dpkg>goodger: I don't know, could you explain it?
00:16<dpkg>The "SMC2862W-G EZ Connect" is a USB 802.11g wireless LAN device manufactured by SMC Networks. Ask me about <p54> if you have device version 1 (USB-ID: 0707:EE06 / part number: 99-012084-282) or version 2 (USB-ID: 0707:EE13 / part number: 99-012084-374). If you have device version 3 (USB-ID: 1260:EE22 / part number: 99-012084-449), install kernel 2.6.28-rc1 or later for device support (ask me about <bpo>), then ask me about <p54>.
00:16<Mauro>its pcmcia
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00:18<Mauro>Linux Laptop-Dell 2.6.26-2-686 is my kernel
00:18<Mauro>should I upgrade, may I ask how?
00:18<gsimmons>Mauro: Again, which driver are you trying to use?
00:18<Mauro>and gsimmons yes Im trying to use p54
00:18<Mauro>and ndiswrapper
00:19<Mauro>i tried both, the first one p54 was installed alread
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00:19<gsimmons>Mauro: Pick one. The p54 driver requires firmware from userspace which is not distributable by the Debian project.
00:19<gsimmons>dpkg: p54
00:19<dpkg>The p54 drivers provide support for several Intersil ISL38xx wireless LAN chipsets (PCI and USB), included in the mainline kernel since 2.6.24. Firmware is required, see for installation instructions. 802.11a (5 GHz) devices are supported as of kernel 2.6.28. #prism54 on
00:19<pipe>(actually it's not PCMCIA, it's PC Card)
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00:20<Mauro>well the problem is that using the p54 I dont see anything in the wlan
00:20<Mauro>i try to load the p54 but wont let me, says it doesnt find it
00:21<babilen>Mauro: have you installed the firmware? could you try loading the p54 module and paste the output of "dmesg | grep -n 23"
00:21<Mauro>I did the firmware, I put it in the hotplug/firmware folder
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00:22<gsimmons>Mauro: Provide the output of dmesg at a paste site ; /msg dpkg paste
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00:24<Mauro>[ 4829.064083] pccard: CardBus card inserted into slot 1
00:24<Mauro>[ 6146.848108] usb 1-1: USB disconnect, address 2
00:24<Mauro>[ 7031.854087] spurious 8259A interrupt: IRQ7.
00:24<Mauro>Im not sure exactly what you want gsimmons
00:24<Mauro>the dmesg only shows that the cardbus was inserted nothing else
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00:25<gsimmons>Mauro: Is the p54pci module loaded?
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00:25<Mauro>I dont think so,
00:26<Mauro>I try to load the prism54 but says that cant find it
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00:26<gsimmons>No, that driver is disabled in Debian kernel images since 2.6.24, modprobe p54pci instead. Also provide us with the PCI-ID of your device (lspci -nn | grep Network).
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00:27<Mauro>ok just loaded the p54pci, 06:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Intersil Corporation ISL3890 [Prism GT/Prism Duette]/ISL3886 [Prism Javelin/Prism Xbow] [1260:3890] (rev 01)
00:28<babilen>Mauro: did the module load sucessfully? (dmesg | tail -n 23)
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00:29<babilen>judd: pciid 1260:3890
00:29<judd>babilen: [1260:3890] is 'ISL3890 [Prism GT/Prism Duette]/ISL3886 [Prism Javelin/Prism Xbow]' from 'Intersil Corporation' with kernel module 'p54pci' in lenny. See also
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00:34<Mauro>I tried the latest link but says no wlan0
00:35<gsimmons>Mauro: We need the dmesg output.
00:35<babilen>Mauro: did the module load successfully?
00:35<Mauro>wait let me do something first
00:36*babilen is off (gnight gsimmons & good luck Mauro)
00:36<Mauro>thank you its finally showing up in the wlan0
00:37<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
00:37<Mauro>those two kernel downloads, I was afraid to screw something up, but playing with the kernel was my next step
00:37<Mauro>thank you very much, any recommendation for a network manager
00:38<babilen>hmm, try network-manager. i like the wpa_supplicant setup. Others prefer wicd ..
00:38<pipe>network manager might be great in the future
00:40*astronut can't stand network manager
00:41<astronut>esp since that time it wiped out my work computer's network settings and knocked me offline when i plugged my phone in to charge
00:41<pipe>the reason I switched was that you have no idea what the fuck it's doing
00:41<pipe>and at that time there were no way to change a lot of important settings
00:41<Mauro>but is there anything like in ubuntu on top of the screen where you just select the wireless network
00:41<pipe>of course
00:41<astronut>all nice statitc network settings managed by cfengine, wiped out
00:41<pipe>wicd does all of that
00:42<Mauro>I installed network-manager but cant see anything, havent restarted though
00:42<astronut>Mauro: that's network-manager-applet
00:42<astronut>i think you have to add it to your gnome toolbar
00:42<pipe>not to the toolbar I think..
00:42<astronut>pipe: i still manage wireless networks by commenting and uncommenting them in /e/n/i
00:42<babilen>I dislike X based network configuration.
00:42<Mauro>i did that network-manager-gnome
00:42<babilen>Mauro: ALT-F2 --> nm-applet
00:42<astronut>Mauro: you have to right click on your toolbar and add it somehow
00:42<astronut>or that
00:43<astronut>babilen: ditto
00:43<astronut>babilen: to be fair, it makes sense on mobile computers, like laptops that go to various wifi networks, but i still just modify /e/n/i by hand to switch them
00:43<babilen>wpa_supplicant is so powerful ... and you can get online even if your X is broken (how cool is that? 90's style)
00:44<babilen>astronut: Have a look at wpa_supplicant's roaming mode
00:44<babilen>astronut: /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/examples/wpa-roam.conf
00:45<astronut>i just do wpa-ssid blah
00:45<pipe>babilen: I don't know if you realize this but both network manager and wicd use wpa supplicant :P
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00:45<astronut>pipe: not the same thing as what he's talking about
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00:46<babilen>I sure do, but they lack the configuration power. We do WPA-EAP / TTLS at our university and VPN on another ... I configure it once and it just works. No clicks no nothing.
00:46<pipe>and you can control wicd fine with wicd-curses
00:46<pipe>from console
00:48<babilen>i'll take a look. Does it support WPA-EAP / TTLS with PAP authentication?
00:48<pipe>No idea.
00:48<babilen>hehe ..
00:49<babilen>thanks for the wicd-curses tip though, i was not aware of that.
00:49<pipe>it might
00:49<babilen>so .. good night
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00:52<pipe>is "source" in bash the same as "." in the rest of the shells?
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00:53<pipe>seems so.
00:55<stroyan>pipe: Yes. And "source" in bash is the same as "." in bash as well.
00:55<pipe>Weird that they have both
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00:56<pipe>I suppose gnu doesn't like standards :)
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01:08<Mauro>good night guys thank a lot again
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01:17<Xenguy>it's quiet... - too quiet =)
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01:21<goodger>possibly ubuntu users are hiding behind the trees, waiting in ambush
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01:25<Xenguy>goodger: good point, that is where the natural born psychics come in handy :-)
01:26<Xenguy>goodger: no joke, the armies (vietnam etc.) would trust those soldiers who 'knew' when it was a bad idea to go into the bush
01:27<goodger>the roaring success that was the Vietnam war
01:27<Xenguy>hehe, as they say in IRC, "define success" =)
01:28<Xenguy>of course history repeats itself because people tend to forget it - afghanistan? how could you possibly compare that to vietnam? (duh)
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01:30<goodger>I prefer to compare it to the other failed attempts to conquer Afghanistan
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02:15<twb>What's the kernel module that provides SATA CD/DVD support?
02:16<twb>(My google-fu is weak.)
02:17<twb>Memory says something like sg_blah
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02:29<jm_>twb: sr_mod
02:30<jm_>let me verify
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02:30<jm_>yeah SCSI CD is sr_mod
02:33<twb>Bleh, when I modprobe it, it bitches about bus_type
02:33<twb>I wish $customer would bloody ASK ME before buying new hardware
02:34<pipe>Hey, I just got a slimline DVD with a power connector that doesn't even exist
02:34<goodger>as in all service industries, your job is to bend the universe around your customers
02:34<pipe>at least your problem can be patched :P
02:35<goodger>pipe: that sounds like my friend's wireless mouse, which had a power cord and a separate USB radio transponder
02:36<goodger>hardware fail indeed...
02:36<pipe>this one has some SATA 2.6 mini power connector
02:36<pipe>can't find any adapters here
02:37<jm_>is that the one where data & power are in the same connector?
02:37<goodger>the full-sized one is already miniature, any smaller and you'd need a magnifying glass and tweezers to plug it in
02:38<pipe>jm_: nope
02:38<pipe>but actually, now when looking, my local store have got them
02:39<jm_>impressive, didn't know they went overboard with sata connectors like usb for example
02:39<pipe>It's important to have about 5-6 different connectors
02:39<pipe>each being 1 mm smaller than the other
02:39<goodger>how else will the adaptor industry function?
02:40<goodger>there are jobs at stake
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02:45<pipe>yeah hm, ok, now when looking at this DVD, the data and power is actually in the same connector, sort of
02:45<pipe>like two connectors close enough to eachother that you would normally use one joint connector
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04:24<fossiiil>hello wizards
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05:07<twb>I have a really old OS, and it's lspci reports the GPU as "ATI Technologies Inc Unknown device aa38".
05:07<twb>Can I punch that into a newer lspci to find out what the device *really* is, or do I need to actually boot a newer OS on that hardware?
05:07<jm_>twb: run update-pciids
05:07<jm_>or use lspci -nn and kmuto hcl
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05:09<twb>jm_: hmm, does that use HTTP?
05:10*twb reads manpage
05:10<l3x>i just installed my video card drivers to run my screen savers, however they only show up on the user root
05:10<jm_>twb: it's a shell script I think
05:10<l3x>is there i setting i can use for that?
05:10<pipe>those screensavers must be seriously good lookin
05:10<jm_>twb: and wget it seems
05:11<twb>Yeah, OK, I gotta work out how to whitelist
05:11<twb>Or sneakernet...
05:11<twb>Flipping secure sites
05:11<l3x>pipe, of course
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05:15<l3x>all i get is a black screen when it wants to go into screen saver
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05:19<numpf>l3x: try this: xset s noblank; sleep 1; xset s activate
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05:22<l3x>numpf, the xsets gave me an error "unable to open display"
05:23<numpf>l3x: type this into an xterm?
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05:23<l3x>numpf, Konsole?
05:24<twb>numpf: awesome, thanks
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05:24<numpf>twb: np
05:24<numpf>l3x: yes, give it a try
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05:25<l3x>numpf, i did, got the error and is still a black screen
05:26<jm_>how can you be sure you typed that in a konsole window if screen is black?
05:26<numpf>l3x: still the error "unable to open display"?
05:26<l3x>numpf, yep in the Konsole
05:26<jm_>if you're running it on a tty do DISPLAY=:0.0 xset ...
05:28<Init_>Does somebody help me about Debian ? I'm not Debian's user, but I want to test it. My question are about Lenny or all version of Debian, if a new version come, must we install this new distribution like in Ubuntu or windows, if a new version went, we must re-install all system, is it same with Debian ?
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05:28<pipe>Init_: No, you can upgrade the system
05:28<pipe>Init_: And I don't know what you mean with ubuntu, I've upgraded ubuntu a lot of times with success
05:29<Init_>but in Ubuntu, we advises to re-install
05:29<Init_>because it creates many bygs
05:29<Init_>to upgrade
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05:30<l3x>i think i need to configure the display
05:30<Init_>and that's why I come to you, I want to have a system a long time without re-install
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05:30<cahoot>Init_: then debian will do well
05:31<cahoot>(unless you mess it up)
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05:31<Init_>(i'm french , sorry for my english)
05:31<l3x>how can i configure the display even though it works? i don't understand the problem
05:32<numpf>l3x: can you launch the application known as 'xterm'?
05:32<Axnor>Hi, i have some performanve problems with my nic. i use debian lenny and a Intel PRO/1000 PT nic. it is a dual port gigabyte interface but with samba transfer i only get 10mb/s. Is it set to 100MBit? or is it a samba problem?
05:32<cahoot>try ethtool
05:32<pipe>Axnor: what's the other computer?
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05:33<Axnor>a win7 desktop
05:33<l3x>numpf, no i get an error. whats the site where i can link you to my error?
05:33<pipe>Axnor: there you have it :)
05:34<pipe>Axnor: At least I've always had slower network disk access with windows
05:34<pipe>Axnor: it's not necessarily the problem here, of course.
05:35<Axnor>but i transfered with 30mb/s to a other system
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05:35<numpf>l3x: sorry, your system is too different from mine. good luck
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05:36<Init_>I hesitated so much, I want to believe you, but I see in a lot of thread in forums that the MAJ of ubuntu create manys bugs and a re install is better
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05:36<Axnor>ethtool says 1000mbts full duplex
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05:37<pipe>Init_: And in a lot of forums there are people that have many bugs in debian, arch linux, windows, osx, gimp, photoshop, freebsd etc.. :)
05:37<jm_>Axnor: try something else, like ftp or https
05:38<jm_>http even
05:38<Init_>pipe: yes I know, but I say that it is a lot of time when they upgrade
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05:38<pipe>well, no need to upgrade ubuntu if you run debian
05:39<cahoot>Init_: people are running debian systems that are gradually upgraded since 10 years or so
05:39<cahoot>Init_: so if you want a safe bet go with debian
05:39<Init_>I know, but because ubuntu is based on Debian, I ask myself :) cahoot ah :)
05:41<Axnor>okay is it possible that there is a problem with my raid card? the system lags when i browse files? it is an adaptec 5405. should i use the adaptec drivers?
05:41<jm_>lags how?
05:41<twb>I'm using the aforementioned ridiculously overspecced video card, connecting to it using its VGA (not DVI or HDMI) port.
05:42<twb>I noticed that colours where funny, so I opened up a colour wheel. I can see bizarre several bands of neon in each of the the black, magenta and cyan ranges.
05:42<Axnor>it takes 2-5 secondes when i open a folder
05:42<twb>What's going on? Is this some DRM thing?
05:42<Init_>just one question, may I use Lenny Squeeze or Sid ?
05:42<pipe>twb: "neon"? :)
05:43<twb>Correction: the bands are in the black, red and blue ranges
05:43<Axnor>the system disk is on the onboard controller and there is nothiing
05:43<pipe>Init_: sid if you're crazy, testing if you're half-sane, and stable if you want to play it safe
05:43<jm_>what does open a folder mean? how many files ar ein it?
05:43<twb>pipe: yeah, in the black area there are three bands of neon-to-black gradients at the darkest end of the range
05:44<twb>It's really weird, nothing I've ever seen before
05:44<twb>I'm using the vesa driver, incidentally (not ati/radeon/r300)
05:44<pipe>twb: you mean orange? in my vocabulary, neon is a colorless gas :/
05:44<Axnor>in one are 2 subfolders. in one subfolders are about 80 files and in the other subfolder about 50
05:44<twb>pipe: neon is a palette description, like pastel
05:45<Init_>pipe: okay an if i choose Lenny and I want to test Squeeze or Sid can I without install them ?
05:45<jm_>how long for ls to list files in such dirs (stop using word folder)?
05:45<Init_>after that let's go:)
05:45<pipe>Init_: You can upgrade to squeeze and sid, you can't downgrade unless you are a wizard
05:46<Init_>pipe: ok thank's :)
05:46<jm_>ls takes 9 seconds to list 80 files? that's just crap
05:46<cahoot>hardly squeeze yet - not released
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05:47<Axnor>hmm is there a hardawre error?
05:48<pipe>Axnor: check with "dmesg"
05:48<pipe>Axnor: maybe there's something crazy ther
05:48<jm_>presumably kernel will mention it if there was one
05:49<Axnor>i thing nothing spezial there. almoast boot dialog
05:50<jm_>so it doesn't look like an error unless driver posts those elsewhere
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05:51<Axnor>should i test the adaptec driver?
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05:51<jm_>are you sure there are no other I/O bound tasks slowing it down?
05:52<Axnor>can i test drive speed?
05:52<cahoot>switch io scheduler for kicks?
05:52<jm_>start with simple dd or bonnie++
05:52<pipe>Axnor: I run "hdparm -tT /dev/blah"
05:52<pipe>Axnor: Not perfect, but gives a hunch
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05:54<Axnor>okay cached read 508mb/s buffered disk reads 235,13 kb/s
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05:54<valdyn>wow, thats slow
05:54<jm_>what kind of hardware is this?
05:55<valdyn>Axnor: is that a 20th century computer?
05:55<jm_>no wonder it takes 9s
05:55<Axnor>okay adaptec raid 5405 controller, chenbro ck1280ß3 port expander and 4* 1tb samsung spinpoint f1
05:56<valdyn>Axnor: you probably have cabling issues
05:56<jm_>all good components
05:56<jm_>tried using it without port expander and 1 disk only?
05:56<valdyn>the 508mb/s is probably ok
05:57<pipe>yeah, that's to/from ram though :)
05:57<valdyn>still slow
05:57<valdyn>~5 year old laptop's ram speed
05:58<pipe>it *could* be from disk cache, but unlikely
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05:58<Axnor>everything is to slow i see :(
05:58<Axnor>okay i will test only 1 hdd
05:58<Axnor>could take some time
05:58<cahoot>dma not enabled?
05:59<valdyn>Axnor: did you tell us what kind of computer that is?
05:59<valdyn>Axnor: modern computers will have several GB/sec ram speed
05:59<pipe>Ok, on a moderately loaded 2 year old quadcore desktop with plain sata I get 2759.27 MB/sec cached and 77.89 MB/sec buffered
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05:59<jm_>cahoot: hard to do that for SATA apparently
05:59<jm_>i get 600MB/s on athlon64 3200
06:00<Axnor>oh no ist amd quad core with 2,2GHz on am2, 8gb 800mhz ddr2 ram, onboard grafik
06:00<jm_>should be way faster for such CPU and DDR2
06:01<Axnor>hmm bad
06:01<valdyn>Axnor: that system has load which you are not telling us about
06:01<valdyn>Axnor: or a bios setting issue
06:02<valdyn>Axnor: ram does not just get slow because you messed with some linux setting
06:02<pipe>Axnor: You should see similar figure to what I have then
06:02<Axnor>i tried it again now cached read was 2158mb/s and buffered disk 646kb/s
06:02<valdyn>Axnor: that cached read is ok
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06:03<pipe>the disk speed is about the same as for my Amiga 500 with the 52MB SCSI disk
06:03<valdyn>and the disk is probably loaded
06:03<valdyn>( syncing or whatever )
06:03<pipe>probably not
06:03<jm_>yeah i bet it's a bit fasater than mfm disks
06:03<Axnor>when i use my system hdd (not on that array) it ist cached 2143mb/s and buffered 89,89mb/s
06:03<valdyn>Axnor: the cached value is the same for all disks
06:03<jm_>normal numbers for modern disks
06:03<pipe>Axnor: maybe it's raid5 and it's building up?
06:04<valdyn>Axnor: except for random error margin
06:04<Axnor>it is raid 5 but its is compleatly initialized
06:04<Axnor>create time was 5 days ago
06:04<valdyn>Axnor: how do you know that?
06:04<jm_>which drover is it?
06:04<Axnor>controller bios says ist
06:04<valdyn>Axnor: i mean, how do you know its not syncing right now?
06:04<valdyn>Axnor: run "iotop"
06:05<pipe>wouldn't be visible
06:05<pipe>hardware raid
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06:05<Axnor>i use the kernel driver
06:05<pipe>but ok, might be some other load..
06:05<valdyn>no but something using the raid would be visible
06:05<Axnor>iotop command not found
06:05<dpkg>*** NEWS FLASH! *** Your box does not come with every app, tool and utility known to debiankind installed already. If you find that the program you've been told to use isn't there, install it. Also ask me about <search>. If someone suggests an application to you, it's highly likely that it's available via apt-get or aptitude.
06:06<pipe>why doesn't my box come with every app, tool and utility :(
06:06<pipe>should be a metapackage or task
06:06<pipe>apt-get install everything
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06:07<Axnor>okay everythin is 0 on iotop
06:08<pipe>Axnor: question: how could you get 10MB/s from the windows machine over samba on a drive that could only do a couple of hundred kb/s?
06:08<twb>Does that new quickpath stuff that ICH10 boards use just present itself to Linux as an ordinary PCIE interconnect?
06:08<pipe>something is weird.
06:08<jmm>pipe: he watch's windows speed indicator.
06:08<pipe>jmm: ah
06:09<Axnor>dont now
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06:09<twb>Oh, quickpath is on i7, not ICH10
06:10<Axnor>when i do the hdparm thing 3 or 4 times
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06:11<Axnor>i get 534kb/s 325kb/s then 111,93mb/s and 645kb/s
06:11<jm_>try playing with different hardware configurations and see if any work at normal speeds
06:12<pipe>I'd start with a single drive
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06:14<Axnor>okay i will
06:14<Axnor>thx 4 help
06:16<twb>jm_: did you already have him check SMART?
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06:17<dennister>k, fairly new to debian here, and having trouble configuring konversation client to connect to the freenode irc channels I'm accustomed to this channel part of freenode, or is it separate?
06:17<jm_>twb: no
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06:17<jm_>dennister: this is oftc, read the MOTD
06:17<kilelme>i have acer aspire 4810t .. better i upgrade this bios?
06:18<twb>kilelme: that's a question for your BIOS vendor.
06:19<kilelme>yep.. but i use debian
06:19<kilelme>what your opinion?
06:20<dennister>jm, so questions about this channel are offtopic?
06:20<dpkg>motd is probably the Message Of The Day, or /etc/motd. /etc/motd is a symbolic link to /var/run/motd on Debian systems, see motd(5) and motd.tail(5) for further information.
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06:21<twb>kilelme: do not use /msg for generic questions.
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06:21<jm_>dennister: whoever said that? I just told you how to find out which network you're on ...
06:21<twb>kilelme: Debian doesn't care what BIOS version you use.
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06:22<inkbottle>Hi, there is an option you can use to know what options have been used to compile the package (for a given package)? (without retrieving the sources)
06:22<twb>inkbottle: nope, not generically.
06:23<twb>inkbottle: some highly configurable projects will tell you in e.g. --version output
06:23<inkbottle>twb, ok then
06:23<twb>inkbottle: ldd will also give you hints, e.g. ncurses vs. ncursesw
06:24<jm_>and very rarely you'll find it in /usr/share/doc/<pkg>
06:24<inkbottle>twb, i will download the sources then, and look to what there is there
06:24<dennister>k so oftc is *not* = to offtopic
06:24<twb>dennister: OFTC is the name of this network.
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06:25<twb>jm_: BTW, I was briefly confused because you lowercased it.
06:25<jm_>twb: why? is "oftc" something meaningful?
06:26<twb>jm_: taken out of context, it could've meant "off topic"
06:26<twb>I mean that I didn't immediately recognize it as an unambgious reference to OFTC, because it was lowercased
06:26<twb>I had to go "huh, what's- oh, right"
06:26<jm_>twb: interesting, first time I hear of this abbreviation, I will try to work on my shift-key skills ;)
06:27<twb>Jackasses have lots of dumb abbreviations
06:27<twb>The other day someone was using "dtor" when discussing C++ destructors
06:27<twb>And Xah Lee thinks "unstand" meands "understand"
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06:30<bremner>twb: don't you mean jcksss ?
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06:31<twb>bremner: nothing wrong with optimizing your telegraphs
06:31<twb>noxzart: sorry.
06:32<noxzart>twb: nothing to say sorry about, i just forgot /join infront of that :P tryed to join the channel :P
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06:33<inkbottle>If is do apt-get source --compile some_package, then i'll have exactly the same binary package as if i only had done apt-get install?
06:33<twb>inkbottle: no
06:33<jm_>inkbottle: no
06:33<pipe>inkbottle: apparently not
06:33<twb>At the very least, it won't be signed and it could include build timestamps
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06:34<twb>But you could also get e.g. different minimum versions from dh_shlibdeps
06:37<inkbottle>twb, jm_, because it has not been compiled on the very same machine? (and for signature and timestamps, clear.)
06:37<noxzart>guys how can i use "cp" to copy all files including "ajax" in the file name, and even if a filename might include AJAX or AjAx?
06:38<twb>noxzart: by learning about globbing.
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06:38<noxzart>twb: globbing?
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06:39<bremner>inkbottle: yeah, the build dependencies are typically "upward compatible", so many different dependencies can be used
06:39<pipe>noxzart: by learning about 'find'
06:39<twb>pipe: ha, that is plan B
06:39<inkbottle>bremner, ok
06:40<noxzart>globbing wont help..
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06:40<inkbottle>rsync then :)
06:40<twb>Why not? [Aa][Jj][Aa][Xx]
06:40<pipe>noxzart: Although if you are working with ajax file, let me suggest an alternative command, 'rm'
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06:40<twb>Some shells (e.g. bash) also support case insensitivity.
06:40<twb>...I think.
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06:41<noxzart>well just coping files with the name ajax to a certain folder..
06:41<pipe>find -iname '*ajax*' -print0 | xargs -0 cp -t whereveryouwantthem/
06:42<twb>pipe: that'll choke if there are two files with identical names in different subdirs.
06:42<pipe>tough luck
06:42<twb>Also, -exec {} + is your friend
06:42<pipe>no it's not
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06:42<twb>Note that it is variadic, unlike -exec {} \;
06:42<pipe>requiring me to type crap like \{ \' \' \} \; is NOT my friend :)
06:43<twb>pipe: you need quote {} only if you use tcsh
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06:43<noxzart>twb: can i use mv *[Aa][Jj][Aa][Xx]* /home/user/Ajax ?
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06:43<twb>noxzart: you can do ANYTHING
06:43<tia>debian?what is debian?
06:44<pipe>twb: a fish
06:44<twb>dpkg: tell tia -about debian
06:44<noxzart>yeah i know i ot the power over myself, or at least that whats my GF lets me think.. :P
06:44<pipe>tia I mean :/
06:44<twb>pipe: you use fish? Do small children point and laugh at you?
06:44<twb>Oh, never mind.
06:44<pipe>noxzart: anyway, don't use mv unless you're sure what you're going to move.. :)
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06:45<tia>what?i didn' t understand...what are you talking about..sorry...
06:45<pipe>tia: that's ok
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06:46<twb>tia: as Dennis Ritchie said: you aren't expected to understand this.
06:46<noxzart>pipe: its nothing vital :P
06:46<tia>taz manian devi
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06:47<tia>thank you verry much dennish........hmmpph.........
06:47<noxzart>twb: ty :P
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06:51<noxzart>btw does mv *[Cc]g* ../folder expect the filename to start with something before C or c?
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06:52<pipe>sort of, but that "something" can be "" as well
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06:52<noxzart>ok good :P
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06:53<noxzart>when using # in a filename should i keep it like \# or somehting or just #
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06:54<ml|>use the -i option if you are not sure on what's going to happen to be on the safe side
06:54<twb>noxzart: sh-compatible shells only require # be quoted if it starts a word
06:54<twb>ml|: I think that's even the default in /etc/skel
06:55<noxzart>so mv *[Cc]#* ../C# should work?
06:55<pipe>escaping a char usually doesn't hurt anyway
06:56<twb>noxzart: TIAS
06:57<inkbottle>noxzart, type 'mv *[Cc]#*' then C-x *
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06:58<inkbottle>without typing return before
06:58<inkbottle>then type C-_
06:58<twb>inkbottle: check he's running bash first :-)
06:59<inkbottle>ha ha
06:59<noxzart>and that will do what?=
06:59<noxzart>oh yeah twb :P
06:59<jm_>expand your command
06:59<inkbottle>and fold them back
07:00<twb>Stupid cdrecord and its stupid IBM-style CLI args
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07:00<twb>Hope that's fixed in wodim... none of the boxes I control run Debian
07:00<jm_>twb: please, let's not mention it or schilling will show up here
07:00<twb>*none of the boxes I control have optical media
07:01<twb>MORE coffee!
07:02<noxzart>ok something happend..
07:02<twb>BREW HTCPCP/1.0\r\r
07:03<noxzart>what exacly did i do with 'mv *[Cc]#*' then C-x * C-_ ?
07:05<twb>noxzart: expanded of the glob, then undid the expansion
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07:05<twb>noxzart: see "info rluserman | pager"
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07:26<tiburon>hi falks
07:26<tiburon>someone could explane to me what it means "Monthly Transfer = 10 Mbps unmetered outgoing
07:27<pipe>sounds good
07:27<pipe>but sounds weird
07:28<pipe>Sounds like you can transfer as much as you want each month, at a maximum of 10 megabits per second
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07:29<pipe>give some context and maybe it'll clear up
07:29<tiburon>it is a dedicated server
07:29<tiburon>to be used for IRC purpose
07:29<pipe>I dunno, 10 megabit is a bit slow for irc
07:30<tiburon>would be better 100 Mbps I guess
07:30<pipe>yeah. then you can type 12 million characters per second at least
07:30<pipe>would be better
07:31<tiburon>thanks pipe
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07:37<twb>IRC works perfectly well on 33kbps
07:37<twb>Oh, you mean for an irc *server*?
07:37<pipe>well, hopefully he didn't think I was serious
07:38<pipe>but he might have meant server, now that you mention it
07:38<pipe>But I'm quite sure that 10 megabit/s is perfectly adequate for even a large server
07:38<twb>It'd be weirder to run irc than ircd on a VPS
07:38<twb>pipe: But 33kbps isn't :-)
07:39<pipe>Well a lot of my friends use them to keep IRC on 24/7
07:39<pipe>running irssi in screen
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07:40<twb>You do that on your buildd, not your vps :P
07:44<pipe>less fortunate people do not know what that is, I'm afraid :(
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07:55<twb>pipe: well, any old shell server
07:56<twb>freeshell,,,, etc.
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08:03<imganquan>hi all. I right click on a file, then I choose "Open with" item in the menu, and then I choose "another program", I find many programs I had remove, how to update this database?
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08:10<mbruins>imganquan: how did you remove the applications?
08:10<imganquan>mbruins: aptitude remove some-application
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08:11<pipe>phew.. for a second I thought you were going to say "rm /usr/bin/application" :)
08:11<mbruins>yeah me too ;x
08:11<mbruins>imganquan: strange.. what application did you remove.. and in what dir are you watching when you still see those application
08:12<imganquan>sorry, I'm not good at English.
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08:13<imganquan>mbruins: I mean, some application which I have removed still exist in the menu which when I right click on a file.
08:13<pipe>You're using gnome I guess?
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08:13<mbruins>imganquan: ok, do you use gnome?
08:14<imganquan>mbruins: for instans, I remove totem and install smplayer, but when I right click on a *.flv file, I choose "open with", and the totem still exist.
08:14<imganquan>NO, I use openbox with pcmanfm as my file manager.
08:14<imganquan>pipe :NO, I use openbox with pcmanfm as my file manager.
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08:18<ml|>imganquan: try updatedb as root, then you should only see what you have installed
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08:19<imganquan>ml|: thank you. I'll try immediately.
08:20<imganquan>ml|: it did not work.
08:20<imganquan>still in the menu.
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08:22<ml|>dunno, maybe if you restart pcmanfm or logout then login again?
08:22<ml|>imganquan: ^
08:22<imganquan>ml|: let me try.
08:22<imganquan>ml|: c u later.
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08:24<imganquan>ml|: no, did't work. but thank you all the same.
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08:26<ml|>imganquan: hmm, you can try and see if there is a config file in ~/.config/pcmanfm/ or something there that might help
08:26<twb>smartctl's manpage says that attributes' TYPE column is always "pre-fail" or "old-age".
08:26<twb>How can it *always* be one of those two? Surely sometimes an attribute is neither.
08:26<imganquan>ml|: OK.thanks, i'll try.
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08:30<munga_>hello ... I want to test if the limits.conf settings I'm sure are working correctly. how can I allocate say 1Gb of memory from a simple shell script ?
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08:32<jeremiah>munga_: You might be better off moving a 1Gig file with the shell
08:32<jeremiah>Perhaps if you have an ISO or something handy you could use that.
08:32<twb>echo ... malloc(...)... | tcc -run ? ;-P
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08:41<pipe>try a java program
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08:42<twb>mount a tmpfs then cat /dev/random into it
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08:45<twb>I remember once I did that by accident
08:46<jeremiah>You used java?
08:46<jeremiah>Yeah - I did that once by accident too.
08:46<jeremiah>It sucked.
08:46<twb>No, I made a 10GB tmpfs and then tried to test it by populating it
08:46<jeremiah>Yeah, with java
08:46<twb>Haven't you noticed that I never listen to what anybody else says?
08:47<jeremiah>Are you talking to me?
08:47<twb>I just declaim monologues.
08:47<pipe>twb: that would likeley not be your process allocating the memory, right?
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08:47<twb>pipe: well, I would've either owned the process or it would've been a setuid'd child
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10:10<kootoomootoo>Hi all
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10:11<kootoomootoo>I need a little help
10:11<kootoomootoo>I ried
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10:11<kootoomootoo>is anyone around?
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10:12<eix_>looks around: no
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10:12<edhunter>kootoomootoo: just ask your question. whoever can will help
10:12<kootoomootoo>I am new here
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10:12<eix_>macht nichts
10:12<kootoomootoo>I tried to install AWN on my debian lenny
10:13<eix_>erm, doesn't matter
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10:13<kootoomootoo>but after couple hours nothing...
10:13<EagleRock>kootoomootoo, how did you try to install it?
10:14<kootoomootoo>I downloaded awn but there is a lot of dependencies
10:14<EagleRock>ah, you should install it using the package manager
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10:14<EagleRock>that would work, aptitude works as well
10:14<ml|>judd: versions awn
10:14<judd>ml|: awn --
10:15<EagleRock>judd: versions avant-window-navigator
10:15<judd>EagleRock: avant-window-navigator -- lenny: 0.2.6-7 sid: squeeze:
10:16<kootoomootoo>It didn't exist in Synaptic package manager
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10:16<kootoomootoo>what should be in sources.list to work with aptitude?
10:17<kootoomootoo>I use debian lenny 5.0.3
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10:19<EagleRock>kootoomootoo: you should be connected to some debian repository
10:19<kootoomootoo>each one?
10:19<EagleRock>!tell kootoomootoo about sources.list
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10:20<ml|>either aptitude update or do it synaptic and look again
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10:21<kootoomootoo>I have: lenny main
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10:21<kootoomootoo>...stable main
10:22<ml|>kootoomootoo: pastebin your sources.list so you get more help
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10:23<eix_>deb lenny main
10:24<eix_>should work
10:24<eix_>and don't forget to 'aptitude update'
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10:27<kootoomootoo>now is installing
10:27<kootoomootoo>i hope this will work
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10:29<kootoomootoo>I must start compiz fusion ?
10:30<eix_>kootoomootoo: for finding yhe best mirror, see
10:31<kootoomootoo>thanks a lot
10:31<kootoomootoo>eaglerock you too
10:31<EagleRock>np :-)
10:31<kootoomootoo>all of you
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10:34<ml|>ah, he left was about to say to read what dpkg told him about sources.list
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10:45<dpkg>mario: VATTENE VIA
10:45<mario>ok ciao ...... che gentile
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10:47<locklace>!beer dpkg
10:47*dpkg pours a quart of Piraat for dpkg
10:48<EagleRock>drunkard bot
10:48<ml|>dpkg: drunk yet?
10:48<dpkg>no idea, ml|
10:48<dpkg>i guess alcohol is the answer to most of lifes problems.., or a good excuse to alias rm='rm -i', or a cause of "rm -rf . / "'s, or the cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems, or ask me about ambrosia
10:48<EagleRock>yep, drunkard
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11:18<jesperj>I have a core2duo system and will reinstall Lenny. I have used i386 until now and I am considering AMD64. What is the real usage examples of problems with AMD64 that says i386 would still be a better choice? I know I wouldn't be able to run 32bit apps, but for 1) how much of the 32bit packages are available for AMD64? 2) will the 32bit limit affect running things like WINE and Cedega? 3) Anything else I should be aware of?
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11:25<mjk>Hi folks!
11:25<mjk>I just ran "debsums -l(ist missing)", and it reported "binutils", among other packages. Why is it that ther is no /var/lib/dpkg/info/binutils.md5sums? Is that a bug I should report?
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11:34<kop>mjk: I've got it on my (Lenny) system.
11:34<mjk>kop: Hmmm ...
11:35<kop>kop: My system is an upgrade. Maybe (possibly) there's an installer bug?
11:35<mjk>I could try "aptitude reinstall binutils" to see if it gets installed (again) -- or is that too risky?
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11:35<kop>mjk: I don't believe it's risky, but I'd try to figure out what caused the problem before muddying the waters further.
11:36<mjk>kop: Hm yeah, "binutils" got certainly installed by the installer, but e. g. "dict-gcide"? Never installed anything else than a standard system (no desktop task etc.) in the installer.
11:36<mjk>kop: Yeah, you're right ... can't think today, too tired. :-}
11:36<gdb>I do not have an md5 sum file either, for binutils. This is on Lenny upgraded from Etch. Reinstalling the package with aptitude results in no change.
11:37<mjk>gdb: Ah, thanks for the feedback! So we're two now =)
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11:39<kop>gdb: Humm. It's not on another one of my systems.
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11:41<mjk>kop: I hate inconsistencies.
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11:41<patrick>hello has all the fashion
11:41<gdb>mjk: Is this the only package you've identified so far with this issue?
11:41<jgaa>simple q: What package contains the man-files for glibc?
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11:42<mjk>gdb: No, also others ... debsums -l lists 25 packages.
11:43<kop>jgaa: manpages-dev?
11:43<gdb>Huh, 28 for me.
11:43<patrick>forgive me for I want my gallery in your language
11:43<patrick>I want to help instal a cam on my amsn
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11:44<mjk>gdb: Interestingly enough, it lists a) packages which probably got installed by aptitude, not by the installer, and b) only parts of a group of packages, e. g. it lists 4 dict-* packages w/o md5, but I have many more dict-* installed.
11:44<jgaa>kop: That was it. Thx!
11:44<gdb>Some of these make sense, like packages containing package signing keys. But most of these (like binutils) should have that information.
11:45<gsimmons>mjk: binutils (WRT Lenny) doesn't provide a md5sums file. kop's system likely generated one via a DPkg::Post-Invoke command (/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/90debsums).
11:45<mjk>Here's the list of packages that are missing MD5sums:
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11:45<gdb>gsimmons: Is there a document somewhere that lists packages that behave this way?
11:45<mjk>(And I'm using Lenny, 32-bit testing and 64-bit testing)
11:45<gdb>gsimmons: Or something that documents "how to tell when this is normal"?
11:45<kop>mjk: 0 missing on one system, 30 on another.
11:47<mjk>gdb: you said Lenny-binutils doesn't provide an md5sums file ... how can I check that? I thought that if "apt-cache show <pkg>" shows an md5sums line, there was one or would be created by dpkg (or whatever program)?
11:48<gdb>It was gsimmons who indicated that. I don't know the criteria by whcih a package will provide the file or not.
11:48<mjk>gsimmons: you said Lenny-binutils doesn't provide an md5sums file ... how can I check that? I thought that if "apt-cache show <pkg>" shows an md5sums line, there was one or would be created by dpkg (or whatever program)?
11:48<mjk>gdb: Sorry for mixing up nicks =)
11:48<kop>FWIW, dpkg -S does not seem to find md5sums. That in itself might be a bug.
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11:49<Gordooo>ffws: so, externer monitor nicht aktiv und tablett tut sich auch nichts
11:49<gdb>mjk: I would think that every installed package should include md5sums for every file installed by that package. That would seem like best practice to me.
11:49<dpkg>deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in (auf, oder - German speaking users please go to (on, or
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11:50<pipe>Gordooo: wrong channel
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11:50<mjk>kop: Hm, it finds about 20 .md5sums files, but not in /var/lib/dpkg/info, but mostly in /usr/share/<pkg>/foobar.md5sum(s)
11:52<kop>I did mess about with debsums on the box with all it's md5s some long time ago. I've since forgotten everything.
11:52<mjk>kop: :-}
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11:52<gdb>I've often wished dpkg had a function like rpm's verify.
11:52<gdb>rpm -vv or whatever it is
11:52<kop>And dpkg -S cannot find the owner for /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/90debsums either. :-(
11:53<kop>gdb: That's debsums.
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11:53<mjk>gdb: Errr ... wait ... do you want to tell me that Debian packages are NOT verified (md5 or whatever) during installation?!
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11:54<jrabbit>(xfce4-menu-plugin:32613): libxfcegui4-WARNING **: XfceAppMenuItem: unable to spawn xfce4-session-logout
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11:54<gdb>Well, yes and no. debsums is sorta clunky by comparison (in fact it's awful by comparison). That said, I put up with it since rpm package management ... leaves something to be desired. :-)
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11:54<gdb>mjk: I'm making no such claim.
11:55<mjk>gdb: clunky is okay, the main thing is it works.
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11:55<mjk>gdb: Ah, okay ...
11:55<mjk>gdb: I would not have believed that we're in 2010, if Debian didn't verify a package before/during installing it. Phew. =)
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11:56<gdb>mjk: I'm saying that it's surprising that there are packages that do not provide md5sum information (eg; binutils) because it strikes me as best practice to have that information on hand for performing verifications/audits for *all* installed packages.
11:56<kop>What 90debsums does is make md5's if debsums is installed. So, whether the md5s are there are not probably depends on when debsums was installed with respect to other packages.
11:56<gdb>mjk: Well, the package signature is checked and that verifies package integrity. It wouldn't, however, guarantee that the file that ends up on disk is correct.
11:57<mjk>kop: That /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/90debsums is not found by dpkg means that it's not part of a package, but installed by a packages postinst (or something) script, right?
11:57-!-Guest963 is now known as dcraig
11:57<jesperj>I have a core2duo system and will reinstall Lenny. I have used i386 until now and I am considering AMD64. What is the real usage examples of problems with AMD64 that says i386 would still be a better choice? I know I wouldn't be able to run 32bit apps, but for 1) how much of the 32bit packages are available for AMD64? 2) will the 32bit limit affect running things like WINE and Cedega? 3) Anything else I should be aware of?
11:57<gdb>kop: Well, it sounds like that's the answer then! I'll try reinstalling binutils again and seeing if the status of the issue changes.
11:57<kop>mjk: Dunno. dpkg -S does not find everything. I.e. config files and such are not there iirc.
11:57<mjk>gdb: Ah okay, thanks for the info!
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11:58<gdb>And an md5sums file for bintuils has been generated.
11:58<gdb>That really should be in the .deb file itself, IMO>
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11:58<mjk>kop: HMMM ... debsums was installed just *minutes* ago, so there must be other mechanisms to create these md5sums files ...
11:58<pipe>jesperj: as far as I know, you can run 32-bit apps, at least I've done it :)
11:58<gdb>dpkg -S will not indicate files created by a installation script that's run at package install time.
11:58<dpkg>You Fool! will not indicate files created by a installation script that's run at package install time. is installed!
11:58<pipe>jesperj: and I haven't had any problems with wine, but I might have been lucky.
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12:02<gdb>mjk: While you may run into errors (which I will leave to you to work around) after the intsallation of debsums, you may try something like this:
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12:02<gdb># aptitude reinstall $(debsums -l)
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12:03<jesperj>pipe: :) Have you noted anything at all that doesn't work with AMD64 that used to work with i386?
12:03-!-Guest965 is now known as mentor
12:03<gdb>I had to dump a package list and remove those that I installed using dpkg, and I had to reinstall initscripts seperately, but that pretty much took care of the rest (aptitude reinstall $(cat packages.list))
12:03<kop>jesperj: I never have, but then don't use the amd64 box as my main desktop.
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12:04<gdb>There should be no negative impacts or risk associated with doing a reinstall.
12:04<mjk>gdb: Perfect, the md5sums file got installed here, too!
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12:04<pipe>jesperj: Actually no, maybe that there's a stupid bug with flash+compiz+gnome which can be fixed with an environment variable if I just bother
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12:05<gdb>mjk: I'm now down to 5 packages without md5sums and they are the 5 I expect to see. ie; the 3 packages for NoMachine NX Desktop and 2 BBS clients I've installed for users (packages I built locally).
12:05<mjk>gdb: So should I report a bug (which severity/importance?) for all packages w/o md5sums file?
12:05<mjk>gdb: And say the md5sums file ought to be in the .deb?
12:06<jesperj>kop: oh? why don't you use it as your main desktop if I may ask?
12:06-!-amphi_ [] has joined #debian
12:06<jesperj>pipe: that sounds good.
12:06<kop>jesperj: It's too noisy.
12:06<gdb>I don't think these are bugs with the packages themselves and IMO the md5sum information *should* be in the .deb file. Obviously this isn't how it's handled. I would suggest a wishlist bug against dpkg. That may be inappropriate however. I'm not sure how I'd move forward with that request, to be honest.
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12:07<jesperj>kop: ok.
12:07-!-wozza [] has joined #debian
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12:08<gdb>mjk: ie; I'm not sure where one would file a feature request for a change to the .deb package format.
12:08<gdb>mjk: I believe that due to the nature of this change, it would be a Debian Policy change.
12:09<mjk>jesperj: AMD64 and i386 have different bugs sometimes =) Like the 32 bit gdbmrecent lib/app correctly writes to files that I link to, while the 64 bit version *removes* the link and creates a new file (not sure about details, just an example).
12:09<jesperj>kop: pipe: tried WINE?
12:09<kop>jesperj: No.
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12:10<mjk>gdb: *gulp*
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12:10<jesperj>mjk: ok :)
12:11<mjk>jesperj: Apart from that, I'm very content with AMD64.
12:11<pipe>jesperj: I've used wine
12:11<pipe>jesperj: Tried a couple of games and apps, they work
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12:11<jesperj>as a sidenote: I have 4gb ram, and bios just stopped finding more than 2gb a long time ago. It can't like HURT ram physically to run i386 OS right?
12:11<pipe>yes, you'll kill it, sorry
12:12<mjk>jesperj: I also had a 32-bit chroot environment years ago, for the few pieces of software that were not available for 64 bit ... don't need that anmore today.
12:12<pipe>you might as well send your computer to me and buy a new one
12:12<jesperj>pipe: I take that as sarcasm :)
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12:12<pipe>jesperj: run memtest, it doesn't seem normal that memory disappear
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12:12<jesperj>pipe: Aspergers Syndrome here :P A bit hard with those things sometimes
12:12<pipe>everyone on irc has that
12:12<pipe>that's no excuse
12:13<jesperj>pipe: yeah...
12:13<jesperj>pipe: :)
12:13*mjk has a few friends with Asperger ... one of them is a bit ... strenuous(?), but still a nice guy. |-)
12:13<jesperj>mjk: cool. so most packages for i386 are ported to AMD64 by now.
12:14<mjk>jesperj: Would say so.
12:14<pipe>aren't all packages that?
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12:14<mjk>pipe: Hm ... w32codecs?
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12:14<gdb>mjk: I understand your trepidation, but that's how development gets done around here. ;-) hehe
12:14<pipe>is that a package in main?
12:15<mjk>gdb: :-))
12:15<mjk>pipe: No. =)
12:15<pipe>I thought the point of having a platform supported was that all debian packages actually worked
12:15<pipe>so they had to drop for example m68k because some couldn't get to work
12:16<jesperj>mjk: I would need w32codecs....
12:16<mjk>jesperj: Not necessarily.
12:16<pipe>vlc :)
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12:17<mjk>jesperj: Don't have it installed on my AMD64 boxes, and mplayer and the likes play nearly everything ...
12:17<pipe>and hm.. dunno, but my mplayer on the amd64 box played everything so far
12:17<pipe>and I download as much crap as the next guy
12:17<jesperj>vlc doesn't work for me to play some media that mplayer just plays. It might be my fault not setting it up correctly but that is my experience.
12:18-!-pegassus [~pegassus@] has left #debian [Leaving]
12:18<mjk>jesperj: And I have files that mplayer doesn't play correctly, while xine or vlc do ... *sigh* ... You need 10 tools for the same job, it seems. :-}
12:18<jesperj>mjk: strangeness :)
12:19<pipe>no, you need a handgun to execute people who can't encode correctly
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12:20<jesperj>one thing that might make AMD64 a bit more complicated to setup for me is that I guess I can't just copy over some of my non-debian compiled stuff to the AMD64 system. But then again if I have the src I could just recompile I guess.
12:20<jesperj>Or maybe it's a hassle to compile / port 32bit code?
12:20<pipe>only if it's badly written
12:21<jesperj>pipe: a lot of stuff is unfortunately. but then again if so it probably needs to be rewritten anyway
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12:21<pipe>When the amiga switched from 24-bit to 32-bit address bus, the only tool that broke was one written by Microsoft..
12:22<mjk>pipe: cool =)
12:22<pipe>because they thought it would be a great idea to store data in the upper byte
12:22<pipe>I mean it's not like it was used on the bus anyway
12:22<mjk>pipe: hehe =)
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12:22<mjk>jesperj: I would not rely on easily porting 32 bit apps to 64 bit ... I have no experience with it, but I wouldn't rely on it.
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12:23<pipe>jesperj: in any case, it's time to move on
12:24<pipe>jesperj: 64 bit has been the standard for years..
12:24<jani>I just started use linux(debian), I installed that amd64. I have little problem can't get skype working. Installation went fine least I think so, It starting but then it suddenly disappear package is skype-ubuntu-intrepid_2.1.0.47-1_amd64. Any idea what to do?
12:25<mjk>jani: Looks as if this package was not for Debian, but for Ubuntu.
12:25<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
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12:25<pipe>Hm, I've heard others having problems with skype on amd64, it's tricky when it's just a binary blob and the company don't support your OS
12:25<jesperj>pipe: yes it seems to only make sense. some years ago when core2duo was new and I bought it, AMD64 didn't seem to be mature enough. But now it seems to be. I just need to make sure that something just won't work that I need when I reinstall with AMD64.
12:26<jani>That package was recommended for debian amd64 in some forum
12:26<jesperj>mjk: *nods*
12:26<pipe>jesperj: it's not like you *need* to watch that lame hentai porn with the bad codec
12:26<mjk>pipe: YES, YES WE NEED HENTAI PORN!
12:26<jesperj>well I don't use skype so I don't have that problem
12:26<mjk>pipe: With good codecs of course =)
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12:27<jesperj>pipe: what do you mean? of course I do! It's part of my morning-routine
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12:28<mjk>jesperj: And as a last resort, if even the 32-bit chroot environment does not work, you could always run it in qemu etc. :-}
12:28<pipe>kvm ftw
12:29<jesperj>mjk: true... didn't think of that actually.
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12:31<Guest973>im is saudi
12:31<pipe>what's with all these people renaming themselves to/from GuestXXX?
12:32<Guest973>welcom all
12:32<pipe>Guest973: nice
12:32<gdb>I believe the server is doing that to people who are using reserved nicks.
12:32-!-freealan [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:32-!-meebey_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:32<gdb>ie; ubuntu belongs to someone or is otherwise not allowed, so the server forces a nick change to a randomized nick of GuestXXX.
12:32<pipe>gdb: Ahh.. that makes some sort of sense
12:32<mjk>hi Guest973
12:33<gdb>Guest973: Do you need help with something?
12:33-!-amphi [~amphi@] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
12:33<kombucha>(or are you just being firendly?)
12:33-!-wr| [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:33<Guest973>im no spenking englesh
12:34<kombucha>ok then
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12:35<kombucha>Well then perhaps someone could give me some advice on matching my linux-headers to my running kernel version
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12:35<kombucha>I am running 2.6.26, but the headers in /usr/src are 2.6.30
12:35<kombucha>Is it as simple as # apt-get install linux-headers-`(uname -r)` ?
12:35<Titan8990>kombucha, `aptitude install linux-header-$(uname -r)`
12:35<gdb>kombucha: that's all there is to it :-)
12:36<kombucha>great, I'll save the hard stuff for later
12:36<pipe>or why not just linux-headers-2.6-amd64 etc
12:36<pipe>should track your version, amirigh?
12:37<kombucha>well i386 anyway
12:37<Titan8990>no, i don't think that tracks your own version
12:37<jesperj>Guest973: What language do you speak then?
12:37<pipe>yeah ok, not if you run an older version
12:37<Titan8990>its a meta package, likely depends on the 2.6.26 headers, so if you installed kernel from backports that would not work
12:37<kombucha>my other question is about glibc, which I noticed has been taken out of testing
12:38<Guest973>speak arabic
12:38-!-reeher [] has joined #debian
12:38<kombucha>I am looking for information as to why this was taken out, and how the architecture is changed as a result
12:38<Titan8990>kombucha, yes, they likely were in favor of a different version
12:38<gdb>kombucha: Debian is moving to eglibc (I think that's the name of it).
12:38<kombucha>the reason for that is that I have glibc2.7, but my vid capture card requires 2.8 to compile the drivers
12:38<Titan8990>kombucha, i highly doubt that those drivers are only compatible with a single version
12:38<pipe>kombucha: it was taken out because the author was a retard :)
12:38<kombucha>ah yes thanks gdb
12:39<gdb>kombucha: Basically, the main developer of glibc is an asshole and Debian is moving elsewhere (it's an argument over embedded support, specifically ARM processors).
12:39<Titan8990>kombucha, a glibc upgrade often means an upgrade to a new OS version
12:39<jesperj>have we got any arabic speaking Debian channel guys?
12:39<gdb>(the guy has talent, but zero people skilsl) you can probably google something on it
12:39<Titan8990>kombucha, so even it if it was available, you wouldn't be installing it without "upgrading" to a different version of debian
12:39<mjk>Hmm ... ksimus complains about /usr/lib/libksimus-boolean ("file not found"), but the files are there, and have the same permissions as the others (-datarecorder, -floatingpoint). Anyone can acknowledge that? Using testing version (0.3.6..., same as unstable)
12:40<sney`>yes, one of the major struggles in F/OSS is that sometimes lead developers on important things are assholes who make arbitrary policy decisions
12:40<kombucha>what are the chances 3libc 2.8 will work where the card manufacturer has specfied that glibc 2.8 is required?
12:40<kombucha>also on a side note, is ubuntu going to elibc as well or sticking with glibc
12:40<jesperj>Guest973: Ok. Hope someone who speaks arabic can help you.
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12:40<pipe>kombucha: they might switch too, I would if I was ubuntu
12:40<gdb>kombucha: about 100%
12:40<sney`>ubuntu will probably ignore any issues unrelated to x86/amd64/ppc, though.
12:40<Titan8990>pipe, ubuntu doesn't even support ARM though
12:41<kombucha>gdb: I like those odds
12:41<gdb>eglibc is a fork of glibc in the same way that ubuntu is a fork of debian
12:41<jesperj>arabic debian chan?
12:41-!-jmm [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:41<gdb>ie; they start with the stock glibc release and then add and maintain more robust embedded support
12:41<pipe>Titan8990: When they're trying to move to netbooks they will have to
12:41<kombucha>So it sounds like I will have to upgrade my whole system to Testing to get elibc (2.8) ?
12:41<mjk>Can't find an arabic Debian channel via Google :-(
12:41<sney`>most netbooks are just x86
12:41<pipe>yes, now
12:42<pipe>because most of them need to run windows, reluctantly
12:42<Titan8990>sney`, 99% atm
12:42<pipe>in a couple of years, maybe not so much
12:42-!-dotslash [] has joined #debian
12:42<gdb>Well, the guy is sort of writing himself out of history like XFree86. Linux is growing faster in the embedded market than any other sector and any other OS in that market. Walking away from that is done at one's peril.
12:42<sney`>don't hold your breath
12:42<Guest973>im saudi its in room chat for the sake of speak english
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12:43<kombucha>To be clear, I am asking if backporting elibc, assuming it is in backports, is not just a really bad idea versus upgrading the whole install to Testing ?
12:43<pipe>Guest973: good :)
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12:43<Titan8990>sney`, I am... how will there be competition when ARM laptop battery lasts 18hrs longer than an x86?
12:43<pipe>kombucha: it sounds like you are quite an advanced user, I wouldn't be afraid of testing if I were you
12:43<kombucha>"I'm Saudi. I'm in this chat room to learn to speak English"
12:44<kombucha>great, thanks pipe
12:44<Titan8990>sney`, and you have got major cooperations such as google dumping a lot of money in to it
12:44-!-amphi_ [] has joined #debian
12:44<kombucha>+1 dpkg !
12:44<gdb>kombucha: It won't be in backports since it's not a backport of any package in a stable release.
12:44<pipe>I've heard of "channel" being referred to as "mirc window"
12:44-!-hscade_ [] has joined #debian
12:44<pipe>So they were chatting in different "mirc windows"
12:44<Titan8990>sney`, IMO we may actually see ARM tablets take-off instead of arm netbooks
12:44<gdb>kombucha: Meaning there's nothing to "upgrade" in lenny with eglibc.
12:44-!-ant [] has joined #debian
12:44<kombucha>Testing here I come
12:45<mjk>Guest973: Yes, the 'h' key works. :-)
12:45<pipe>that's not really english
12:45-!-sfyn [~sfyn@] has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:45<Titan8990>kombucha, not recommended
12:45<kombucha>Titan8990: why is that?
12:45<Titan8990>kombucha, testing is often broken for long periods of time
12:45-!-amphi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:46<kombucha>Titan8990: well that seems like I am between a rock and a hard place then
12:46<gdb>kombucha: And Titan8990 is also mistaken.
12:46<pipe>..could be.. ..some packages..
12:46<kop>Guest973: We're here to support debian. You're free to listen in, and of course help or ask Debian support questions, but casual conversation is off-topic.
12:46-!-AbsintheSyringe [] has joined #debian
12:46<kombucha>Titan8990: also since this system is only doing one thing, if I can get it stable I shouldn't have to worry too much about maintenance til Squeeze comes out
12:46<kop>kombucha: Yes. I like a system that just works and stick with stable.
12:46<reeher>I'm trying to figure out how to set up an High Availability Linux 'cluster'. Long story short, where would I go to learn how to point a raid 'drive' to a network card?
12:46<jesperj>Guest973: here you can find email adresses to arabic speaking people who are involved with Debian. They might be able to guide you further. (I hope you understand this)
12:47-!-mode/#debian [+l 391] by debhelper
12:47<gdb>reeher: ala iscsi?
12:47<jesperj>Guest973: Also
12:47<reeher>gdb: I'd guess, yes.
12:47<kop>kombucha: You may want security updates... Better to run testing in virtualbox or some such. YMMV.
12:47-!-andre__ [~andre@] has joined #debian
12:47<reeher>gdb: or was that the suggestion? :)
12:48<kombucha>Yes I really should do this in vbox first
12:48<Guest973>thank all
12:48<Guest973>thank kombucha
12:49<Guest973>thank jesperj
12:49<mjk>jesperj: good find!
12:49<jesperj>Guest427: No problem. good luck :)
12:49<kombucha>interesting that virtualbox doesn't have any additional 'recommended' packages
12:49-!-Lethalman [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
12:49<Guest973>thank mjk
12:49<kop>reeher: There are various filesystems and transports available.
12:49<jesperj>Guest973: No problem. good luck :)
12:49<mjk>Guest973: No problem :-)
12:49<reeher>kop: that's where I am now.
12:50<jesperj>mjk: :)
12:50<gdb>reeher: It's both a qustion and suggestion. :-)
12:50<reeher>gdb: beaut. I'll pick up from there. Many thanks. /nod
12:50<kop>reeher: Might also checkout drdb. I've no experience with any of it.
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12:51<jesperj>Though shouldn't be in arabic instead of english? O_o
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12:51<reeher>I"m feeling like uber geek today.. compiling e17 and learning about HALinux. :) Peace all.
12:51<gdb>kombucha: Upgrading to testing is no different than going from one stable to the next (ie; a giant mess): 1. edit /etc/apt/sources, 2. aptitude update, 3. aptitude install aptitude dpkg apt, 4. aptitude safe-upgrade, 5. aptitude dist-upgrade (repeat step 5 over and over and over until it stops bitching)
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12:52<jesperj>gdb: I've never done step 3. is it really needed?
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12:52<gdb>reeher: I'm guessing you're wanting to use SAN storage, yes? Is that what you're needing?
12:52<mjk>gdb: Btw.: What if I leave out step 4 (safe-upgrade), which I did yesterday? It shouldn't break anything, should it?
12:52<jesperj>seems to have worked to upgrade from sarge to lenny on a box doing the other steps in your procedure (and as you say over and over until it stops bitching :D)
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12:53<mjk>gdb: I upgraded from a stable system (only standard-software task, fresh install) to testing.
12:53<gdb>jesperj: It's been recommended in every document I've read, including upgrade release notes for lenny. As for step 4, I consider it safe, I've seen it documented, there's no harm in it. It probably won't save you any hastle anyway.
12:53<mjk>gdb: Ah okay, thanks
12:53<jesperj>gdb: guess I've been lucky then.
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12:54<gdb>mjk: What safe-upgrade will do is upgrade every package to the new release that does *not* require the removal of any additional package or the installation of any new packages
12:54<reeher>gdb: sort of. I want to build two systems, one primary, one backup, with a router out front. If svr1 hoses, the router shifts all traffic to svr2, therefore svr2 needs to realtime mirror svr1. Sone of the docs I'd read uses a raid 5 array with one of the drives pointing to a NIC, which in turn writes the data to the array on another system.
12:54<gdb>mjk: ie; the idea is to get you as close to the new release as non-disrputively as possible (much like installing the package tools first) before you do the messy part
12:55<mjk>gdb: Ah okay, thanks for the good explanation!
12:55<gdb>mjk: which is the dist-upgrade
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12:55<jesperj>what about exporting installed debian packages to a list, and importing on another install when export system is i386 and import system is AMD64? I guess it will not work? Can one exclude packages that would not work if some would work?
12:56<gdb>reeher: I guess I don't understand. You have srv1 sharing the data to srv2? But the disks are directly attached to srv1?
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12:57<mjk>jesperj: You certainly can, but the question is how to find out which packages don't work on AMD64 ...
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12:57<mjk>jesperj: Actually, there should not be very many of those packages ...
12:58<jesperj>gdb: I think he has one setup on server1 with harddrives for only that server there, and he has a server2 with its own harddrives. and he wants server2 to always be a mirror of server1. Server2 would only be activated/used for real though if server1 goes down
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12:58<mjk>jesperj: Hm, actually ... the package system will tell you! :-)
12:58<pipe>reeher: check out afs and plan9 too :)
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12:58<jesperj>mjk: it will complain when I import the list?
12:59<gdb>So srv2 is hot spare but not primary. I'd suggest getting rid of the disks on srv2 then and just using disks on srv1, to be failed over to srv2 in the event srv1 goes down.
12:59<mjk>jesperj: I never used that feature (yet), but after importing it, you run "aptitude install", I guess, and then aptitude should complain if packages are not available for AMD64 or other problems.
12:59<gdb>This assumes your hardware supports attaching your array to more than one machine (or you are using SAN).
12:59<jesperj>gdb: I think the idea is to not have to do anything physically to the systems if one fails but just change some settings in router or something and server2 takes over
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13:00<jesperj>though I guess he should explain his own idea himself instead of me having my theories lol
13:00<pipe>not even changing something in the router
13:00<kop>jesperj: Don't use use the lenny release notes to guide your upgrades?
13:00<pipe>ha = automated and not noticed
13:00<gdb>The only solution to keeping the data in sync that doesn't involve failing over the disk or a tremendous financial expenditure is rync, but then it's near-real-time, not real-time.
13:01<reeher>!beer gdb Thanks man. You've given me much to go on.
13:01*dpkg deftly decants a fine Delirium Tremens for gdb Thanks man. You've given me much to go on.
13:01<kop>gdb: drdb will replicate blocks across systems.
13:01<gdb>The tremendous financial expenditure is something like veritas clustering filesystem (which may or may not be supported on Debian).
13:01<pipe>there are a couple of ~realtime solutions for keeping it in sync
13:01<jesperj>kop: you are asking if I do not use the lenny release notes to guide my upgrades?
13:01<gdb>kop: Ah, I'm not aware of that utility.
13:01<reeher>pipe: Yes, on teh HA. I think I have enough to start with.
13:02<kop>jesperj: Yes. I find following the release notes avoids headaches.
13:02<kop>gdb: It's a driver, I think.
13:02<reeher>gdb: it's pretty good, but iirc it is duplicated by heartbeat and associated utilties.
13:02<reeher>gdb: drdb that is.
13:02*reeher is but a n00b.
13:03<kop>reeher: I think you need hearbeat or some such on top of it for failover. (There's also the gfs cluster fs.)
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13:03<pipe>there's also HA-by-faith, you pretend that you set everything up and then pray to $DIETY that the main server never fails
13:04<gdb> is the main page of heartbeat
13:04<reeher>pipe: LOL.. Nice.. Been there before, don't wnat to do it again.. ran DB w/ no backups for 6 months..
13:04<gdb>I'm sure you've seen that already, however.
13:04<kop>reeher: I like carp for failover, but have not used it on Linux.
13:04<jesperj>kop: Actually no. Which makes me feel stupid when you mention it and I checked it out for AMD64 arch. It seems to have some info that I have not read in the installation guide that looks very usefull indeed. Thanks
13:05<gdb>I'm not familiar with it, though. The only HA systems I'm using are on IRIX and HP-UX. All the Solaris applications I'm using have application level HA.
13:05<kop>jesperj: Check out the bug reports too. I reported one that's ugly (IMO) some time ago and have not gotten mail that it's fixed.
13:05<jesperj>mjk: yeah. I'll try it. It's a new install so if I fsck up I'll just try again \o/
13:06<kop>jesperj: (filed against d-i package, iirc.)
13:06<reeher>Kk, I've got about 1/4 page of notes to explore. Thnaks all.
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13:08<jesperj>kop: Will do. Thanks a bunch :)
13:09<jesperj>reeher: Good luck
13:11<gnude>hello debian developer!
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13:13<gnude>are reiserfs developer here?
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13:14<reeher>*crickets* :)
13:14<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
13:14<gnude>kop: i was just interested.
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13:14<gnude>nothing special
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13:15<locklace>!start a filesystem war
13:15<dpkg>FAT is too slow!
13:15<ml|>dpkg: reiserfs
13:15<dpkg>ReiserFS is a journaling filesystem with pretty good performance and some interesting features. It is wonderful and everyone loves it, until the axe falls and they lose data due to a crash. As such, it has a lot of ex-fans who are now sadder but wiser. Ask me about <ext3>, <jfs> and <xfs> for safer filesystems. See also <ext3 vs reiserfs>, <rfsd>.
13:16<dpkg>hmm... ricerfs is the firework rocket of filesystems - it goes very fast then blows up with all your data. See <reiserfs> for real info. See also <ext3 vs reiserfs>.
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13:18<jesperj>kop: doesn't seem to have search criteria for arch?
13:18<gdb><dpkg> see <use something else> and forget about reiser
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13:19<jesperj>if FAT is too slow then it should consider exercise
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13:20<dondelelcaro>jesperj: architecture is a tag, generally speaking
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13:21<nixeagle>Hi, is there a manual or guide for dealing with aptitude errors?
13:21<dondelelcaro>jesperj: but normally you don't care what architecture it is
13:21<gnude>no filesystem war. i decided for reiserfs because ext3 seems a little bit to slow when handling much small files, xfs dont work well with partimage and reiserfs is faster. because the loss of date... backup is the magic word. the harddisk can get dammaged too...
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13:22<ml|>did you try ext4?
13:22<dondelelcaro>gnude: honestly, the vast majority of people who come in here with their filesystems entirely destroyed are using reiser. generally speaking, whatever speed benifits there are are minor, and often not worth the risk in most environments. [Finally, you should be benchmarking on your exact problem set if you're going to chose such a filesystem.]
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13:22<kop>gnude: jfs is good for large files.
13:23<dondelelcaro>nixeagle: no, because they can be caused by almost anything. They're actually not aptitude errors, they're errors in the packages themsleves.
13:23<nixeagle>dondelelcaro: alright, where do I need to read up for figuring out what the problem is.
13:24<nixeagle>I really want to try helping myself first, just not positive where to look.
13:24<jesperj>dondelelcaro: thanks
13:25<nixeagle>I was looking at Mind you I've packaged gentoo packages before so I'm not totally new at fixing things, just new at the debian way.
13:25<ml|>nixeagle: you can ask here, like what you are trying to do and pastebin the error; someone might help
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13:27<gnude>dondelcaro: i could say, no risk no fun. but this is not the truth. realy, i care about backups, make them often and for me the speed is more important.of courese there are good reasons for reiserfs, ext3, ext4 etc. i am realy interested in reiser4, but the debian installer dont support it.
13:27<nixeagle>Alright, this is right off of debian sid:
13:27<gnude>kop: i take a look on jfs, it is not bad, but in my system reiserfs seems to be faster.
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13:30<dondelelcaro>gnude: we pretty much won't be supporting reiserfs into the future, as AFAICT, development has reached a dead end. but use whatever you want, of course.
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13:34<gnude>dondelecaro: that is realy pitty. i like reiserfs and so far i know some people still using it. like ext2, who is still used. how about reiser4?
13:35<Titan8990>wasn't reiserfs referred to as the "self-destructing filesystem"?
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13:35<dondelelcaro>gnude: when the lead developer is in jail for murder, development tends to stall. Unlikely.
13:35<Titan8990>dondelelcaro, interesting
13:35<gnude>other people could develop further...
13:35*Titan8990 is off to wikipedia
13:37<ml|>murder tends to taint stuff; not want to touch it
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13:38<xover>I cannot ping a computer from one on the same segment, but if i ping this pc from that pc I am then able to carry out the original ping test, why?
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13:39<kop>xover: ARP problems. Bad netmask/broadcast address.
13:39<xover>no, they are correct
13:39<kop>xover: Cheezy firewalling?
13:40<xover>what do you mean?
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13:40<xover>there are no warnings on the firewall
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13:41<kop>The 2nd computer had a firewall that recalls it's sent outbound pings so lets replies back, but only for a while. If the 1st computer tries to ping before the second has sent a ping it will be blocked by the 2nd's firewall.
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13:43<xover>I am trying to use smb, only used ping for testing the comms
13:43<xover>once i ping the client from the server, the client is then allowed to access the host. i dont get it
13:44<kop>xover: Dump the arp tables or use tcpdump/wireshark to analyze the traffic.
13:44<kop>xover: Or ask on #samba on freenode for detailed samba help.
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13:47<nixeagle>oh hey at least the postinst script is short \o/.
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13:48<nixeagle>Alright, if I have a postinst error and I'm looking at the script, how do I tell where it errored out. Does aptitude log the error number or something else interesting/useful somewhere?
13:49<mjk>nixeagle: /var/log/dpkg.log
13:49<mjk>nixeagle: /var/log/aptitude*
13:50<Titan8990>nixeagle, often it gives more feedback then that. What package are you trying to install? what version of debian? what repo?
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13:51<mjk>nixeagle: "aptitude (or dpkg) foo bar baz | pastebinit" is always a good idea =)
13:51<nixeagle>this is from debian sid, main repository, console-tools upgrading from [UPGRADE] console-tools 1:0.2.3dbs-66 -> 1:0.2.3dbs-67 (thats from tail /var/log/aptiude)
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13:51<nixeagle>mjk: is that safe action to re-run aptitude again on a failed package?
13:52<nixeagle>I pasted the output from it above, the link is:
13:52<Titan8990>nixeagle, its not uncommon for a package in sid to be completely broken, have you checked the BTS?
13:52<nixeagle>Titan8990: I understand that, but no I have not checked. Let me do that ;)
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13:54<nixeagle>I'm not afraid of it being broken, I just don't know where to figure out the error code returned from the postinst script. It has two exit points
13:54<Titan8990>nixeagle, it BASH right? try running it youself with set -x
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13:56<nixeagle>Titan8990: its already reported ^-^. impressive
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13:56<nixeagle>even has a patch :)
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13:57<nixeagle>Titan8990: thanks for the tip though, I just tried it while reading the report :)
13:58<mjk>nixeagle: At least it didn't break anything for me, just repeated the error message.
13:58<nixeagle>If nothing else I can always reboot back to gentoo until the package is patched.
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13:58<Titan8990>nixeagle, a bleeding-edge distro and an unstable testing release.... wheres your stability hehe
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14:00<nixeagle>Titan8990: well I've always used gentoo and that is on stable now (used to run testing of that when I was doing gentoo ebuilds)
14:00<nixeagle>Its fun to figure out broken stuff XD
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14:00<nixeagle>(well as long as you have something sane to reboot too ;) )
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14:01<Titan8990>i have just about phased out all my gentoo boxes
14:01*walrus hates figuring out broken stuff and that's why he runs debian
14:01<walrus>i don't mind bug reporting though ;)
14:01<Titan8990>even ran one of my production servers on it... but man to i hate seeing "ebuild failed" nearly everytime i try to emerge -uD world
14:01<nixeagle>Titan8990: I'm going that way too, but I don't want to do that until I'm comfortable with debian
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14:03<nixeagle>Titan8990: the trick with emerge is to always have it recheck all dependencies and useflags plus run depclean. I have a script that does some 6 emerge commands instead of world. Using it I've had very few real breakages other then ebuilds I wrote.
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14:03<ml|>nixeagle: debian-reference can help you
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14:03<nixeagle>I will say I'm very impressed with debians lisp and emacs support :). I actually have a working compile of ecl to play with
14:04<Titan8990>there has been talk on the BTS of a an emacs snapshot package
14:04<nixeagle>ml|: yes I was looking at that earlier, chapter 2 has the package management stuff. :)
14:04<nixeagle>Titan8990: there is one unofficial, and I use that.
14:05<nixeagle>My only unofficial package, but worth it because I never run my computer without at least 3 or 4 emacs frames
14:05<Titan8990>i just use plain ole emacs22 from lenny repo w/ ECB
14:05<xover>kop: its strange, i suddenly starting working
14:06<nixeagle>Titan8990: emacs23 is is very good if you ever get around to it.
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14:06<nixeagle>Anyway the patch on the bts looks sane, I've looked at it. Can I apply it to my .postinst without aptitude giving me issues when next update comes out?
14:07<Titan8990>nixeagle, i have it on my suse laptop but I haven't got around to messing with it much
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14:07<nixeagle>Titan8990: hehe, well I'm pretty new to emacs, but since about a year ago I'm now insanely addicted to it and any lisp/scheme I can get my hands on :)
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14:08<Titan8990>i have been using emacs for about a year, and i still feel like a total newb
14:08<ml|>dpkg: start an editor war
14:08<dpkg>edlin sucks
14:08<nixeagle>lol, too quick ml| :). Nobody is dissing any other editor ;)
14:09<ml|>nixeagle: can't hurt ;)
14:09<kombucha>My Debian installer appears to be hung @ 5% (inside virtualbox) and the only column in top that is changing for virtualbox is %CPU, other columns (VIRT,RES,%MEM) are not changing at all
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14:09<kombucha>in other words, hmmm...
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14:10<nixeagle>I don't want to keep poking but does aptitude do anything odd if I patch the postinst with the fix rather then waiting?
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14:11<s4br3>Hi, I am rendering some home videos on both my Debian Sid machines. What surprises me is that my eth0 monitors started pulsing with activity, like every 15 sec or so. Very small peaks, which are not seen now, possibly due to the signals from the irc. What could it be?
14:11<nixeagle>Sorry I just don't know what to expect and I don't want to go around aptitude to the point that I have an inconsistant package db.
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14:12<nixeagle>s4br3: grab a packet logger maybe?
14:12<s4br3>nixeagle: isit installed by default?
14:13<nixeagle>s4br3: I'm guessing no but if you want to see whats going out, you need to look at the packets or log the io from eth0. Nobody can guess that with your given info.
14:14<ml|>nixeagle: keep a backup of original just incase, but should be fine iirc
14:14<s4br3>ok, would you recommend a sniffer or a logger?
14:14<s4br3>and which would be most convenient for Debian Sid?
14:14<nixeagle>s4br3: Not really my place to suggest any particular or method.
14:14<nixeagle>*one or method
14:15<s4br3>Just name the first that comes to mind, please... ;)
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14:15<nixeagle>Your problem is "I have unknown activity on eth0", the way to find out that activity is to "inspect eth0".
14:16<frokostposer>you could try tcpdump
14:17<nixeagle>ml|: alright thanks :)
14:17*Titan8990 makes dumps using tcpdump and analyzes them in wireshark
14:17<s4br3>Is it easily started?
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14:17<s4br3>Never done it
14:18<Titan8990>s4br3, do you know the basics of tcp/ip?
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14:18<s4br3>so so...
14:19<s4br3>Im installed just now tcpdump
14:19<Titan8990>making the dump is simple
14:19<s4br3>I installed tcpdump just now
14:19<Titan8990>analyzing requires decent knowledge of tcp/ip
14:20<s4br3>I'd like to see whe the sent packages went
14:20<Titan8990>this is the book to get:
14:20<nixeagle>Titan8990: I think he just wants to see outgoing packet destinations
14:21<Titan8990>s4br3, does this box run X?
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14:21<s4br3>I now have wireshak installed too
14:21<s4br3>I now have wireshark installed too
14:21<Titan8990>s4br3, alright, just use wireshark then
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14:22<s4br3>I tis asking me if I'm allowed to do this...
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14:24<Titan8990>you have to run wireshark as root if you are making captures
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14:25<s4br3>(wireshark:9207): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :0.0
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14:26<nixeagle>s4br3: you did su; wireshark;?
14:26<reeher>s4br3: you gotta read the man page, Man. #debian is not here to spoon feed you. We give you the tools, you learn how to use them. You really get stuck? Come back with specific questions. Not being harsh, just honest.
14:26<Titan8990>nixeagle, it should have made a menu entry for launching as root as well
14:27<s4br3>that is cool.
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14:27<Titan8990>reeher, i agree, but in the case of wireshark i don't think its manpage is the best to learn from
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14:27<nixeagle>Titan8990: ah, did not know that. He probably got that error because he is running it as the root user which has no X session.
14:27<Titan8990>or really, most GUI applications
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14:28<reeher>Titan8900: true, 'man page' was with a bit of license. There's a VERY complete documentation with wireshark.
14:28<nixeagle>Titan, he probably wants
14:29<Titan8990>yes, those videos there are nice
14:29<reeher>anyway, I really didnt' mean to sound nasty. I prolly shoulda softened it some more. Just call me Wilson.
14:29<reeher>MWilson rather.
14:29<Titan8990>reeher, no, that was perfect
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14:30<reeher>Bummer, dinna mean to scare him off. :(
14:30<nixeagle>ml|: patch works for me
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14:30<Titan8990>nixeagle, nice
14:30<ml|>!congratulate nixeagle
14:30<dpkg>Nice one nixeagle, you did it!
14:31<ml|>bts does help, some of the time :)
14:31<nixeagle>thanks guys, I know where to look next time :).
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14:32<nixeagle>ml|: hehe well problem was I did not even know where to _start_ debugging. Suggesting the logs helped. Finding the postinst script helped, and of course the patch already there is just icing on the cake :)
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14:32<ml|>for running apps as root sux is one option
14:33<ml|>X apps*
14:33<Titan8990>you mean suid?
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14:35<nixeagle>ml|: plus: helps. But i found that after I patched it
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14:37<ml|>nixeagle: yes, debian-reference can help also :)
14:37<ml|>nixeagle: you can install it also
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14:40<nixeagle>ml|: cool, I thought I saw something that checked bts for grave bugs before installing. I'm going to find that and install it again
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14:40<dpkg>apt-listbugs (aptitude install apt-listbugs) is available since at least Sarge. When installed, it will fetch the list of critical <BTS> bugs that pertain to any packages being installed. Modern releases allow you to pin a version to prevent upgrades to any packages you discover to be too risky (see <pinning>). Older releases only allowed holding (see <hold>).
14:40<xover>guys i cannot ping a server on the same segment unless it first pings the host, what could be the issue?
14:40<miihackwii>hi everyone can some one help me resolve the error that im getting when i try to install something i get this error
14:40<miihackwii>Errors were encountered while processing:
14:40<miihackwii> /var/cache/apt/archives/libssh2_1.2.2-bt0_all.deb
14:40<miihackwii>E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
14:41<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or for pics. Use for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>.
14:41<s4br3>Sorry, I got logged out. reeher, no you weren't too harsh... ;) I don't need to be spoon fed, normally... :) Yet the message I had was to run wireshark as root, and when I do, I get the message sent previously. S, apparently I could not not start it as root...
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14:42<nixeagle>s4br3: did you get it started?
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14:42<miihackwii>hi everyone can some one help me resolve the error that im getting when i try to install something i get this error
14:42<miihackwii> /var/cache/apt/archives/libssh2_1.2.2-bt0_all.deb
14:42<miihackwii>E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
14:42<nixeagle>miihackwii: pastebin
14:42<xover>I cannot ping unless pinged upon, it seems that i have a rules of engagement IT issue!
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14:43<miihackwii>what u mean pastebin
14:43<nixeagle>miihackwii: read what dpkg told you above
14:44<miihackwii>oh rite ok
14:44<nixeagle>and miihackwii we need system, the full error and so on.
14:45<s4br3>nixeagle: not really, not yet. I am the 1st interface trying to familiarize myself
14:45<nixeagle>That all goes in your paste. Explain what you are trying to do, what you are expecting to happen, and what you got
14:45<miihackwii>when i try to install via apt-get i get an error saying trying to overwrite
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14:46<miihackwii>error code 1
14:46<nixeagle>miihackwii: please put all this in a pastebin, I think apt gives you more lines then yu are giving.
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14:46<nixeagle>miihackwii: you gotta help people help you
14:46-!-clubmate [] has left #debian []
14:47<ml|>I find pastebinit very helpful
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14:48<ml|>nixeagle: apt-listbugs is great :)
14:48<nixeagle>ml|: does this channel have a page that explains how to tell us about their problem?
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14:49<ml|>nixeagle: ask can be helpful for that
14:49<nixeagle>oh to dpkg?
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14:49<ml|>yes, but you did a fine job so I saw no need
14:49<nixeagle>ml|: ah thanks
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14:50<ml|>nixeagle: /msg dpkg help can help ;)
14:50<miihackwii>nixeagle iv just used pastebin did u get the msg
14:50<nixeagle>ml|: already did that :)
14:51<nixeagle>miihackwii: what message? put the link in this channel please
14:51<nixeagle>Its likely I'm not going to be able to help you.
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14:52<ml|>miihackwii: how are you installing that?
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14:52<miihackwii>via apt-get
14:53<ml|>ok, just making sure
14:53<ml|>miihackwii: consider using aptitude for future uses
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14:55<miihackwii>im a noob at all this where can i download aptitude
14:55<nixeagle>miihackwii: its already on your system
14:56<ml|>miihackwii: might want to check bts; while you wait for help on your issue
14:56<miihackwii>ok thanx also when i try install something its asks me to type apt-get -f install
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14:56<miihackwii>whats bts
14:57<ml|>dpkg: tell miihackwii about bts
14:57<ml|>but it seems it's a previous issue that is the cause
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14:58<ml|>miihackwii: man apt-get and read '-f'
14:59<jesperj>I'm getting the ol' msg from mount that my device is busy when I try to unmount it. Can I somehow see what process occupies it?
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15:00<miihackwii>thanks for all ur help il have a look at what dpkg sent me
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15:03<ml|>nixeagle: you might also find apt-file, apt-show-versions and apticron useful
15:04<ml|>jesperj: try lsof
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15:06<jesperj>ml|: thanks
15:07<nixeagle>oh cool
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15:08<s4br3>jesperj: aptitude regerar...
15:08<jesperj>s4br3: ?
15:08<s4br3>rockar fett
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15:12<jesperj>s4br3: ok
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15:17<s4br3>nixeagle: Ok, I looked over the start page of the wireshark, but it is still not obvious how to get root priviliges in wireshark. I have root priviliges for this machine but don't see how I get it for wireshark activities. Please, give me a hint
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15:19<nixeagle>s4br3: are you using something like kde or gnome?
15:19-!-metalqga [] has joined #debian
15:20<s4br3>Yes, Im in KDE
15:20<nixeagle>s4br3: aptitude search kde sudo
15:20-!-svend [] has joined #debian
15:21<svend>When I click on a PDF link in epiphany, a new tab opens which displays a grey page. The PDF doesn't display or download.
15:21<ml|>!root x
15:21<dpkg>If you need to run an X application as root (or another user), ask me about <sux> <gksu> <sshx> <mit-magic-cookie> <xauth> or look at kdesu and gksudo. Whatever you do, don't use <xhost> or try <running x as root>!
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15:22<nixeagle>ml|: neat, does that thing have a manual?
15:23<ml|>nixeagle: /msg dpkg help ;)
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15:23<s4br3>nixeagle: I never use sudo, normally. Thanks!
15:23-!-Tenguch [] has joined #debian
15:23<s4br3>nixeagle: The analysis is underway.
15:24<nixeagle>s4br3: please don't ping me repeatedly
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15:25<s4br3>nixeagle: I am not. And have not done it voluntarily.
15:25<svend>Actually, all links which should download show up as a blank grey page in epiphany.
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15:26<nixeagle>s4br3: saying someone's nick usually causes their client to "ping" them visually or verbally.
15:26<s4br3>nixeagle: like this?
15:27<nixeagle>yes, that causes it to be highlighted and a blue marker to show up in my erc modeline, which means I have to go look and see who is talking to me.
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15:27<svend>Looks like bug 563056 is my problem
15:28<babilen>!dbugs 563056
15:28<dpkg>#563056:I[epiphany-browser] epiphany-browser: no longer performs "download link" or "save link as" (); Wed, 30 Dec 2009 12:54:02 UTC []
15:28<ml|>!congratulate svend
15:28<dpkg>Huzzah svend, you did it!
15:28<s4br3>ok. But in Wireshark, I also see that "D-Link blablabla" is the source for some "Who has IP-address XXXXX"... Hmmm. Is that normal?
15:29<s4br3>with destination "Broadcast"
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15:29<s4br3>using the protocol ARP/IRC/TCP
15:29<nixeagle>s4br3: at this point you have wireshark running. Why don't you take the time to read the intro for wireshark.
15:29<s4br3>point taken!!! :)
15:30<s4br3>thanks! ;)
15:30<nixeagle>s4br3: if you get stuck after reading, go ahead and ask, but help yourself :)
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15:31<nixeagle>I hope that was not something I did ^-^
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15:32<ml|>some people like to disconnect, instead of staying ;)
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15:33<Titan8990>some people like do their logging, on separate nicks :)
15:33-!-wozza__ [] has joined #debian
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15:34<ml|>the fun of irc you never know who you are talking to
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15:36<nixeagle>where is the source code for dbkgbot and or a way to query the db offline?
15:36<nixeagle>I see there are dbdumps, not sure how to use them
15:37-!-mode/#debian [+l 383] by debhelper
15:37<ml|>not offline but ...
15:37-!-Greg [] has joined #debian
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15:38<ml|>and ... /msg dpkg dpkgbot
15:38<dpkg>Please visit to learn how to effectively search the factoids database for FAQ, and not flood in the channel with !tell <who> about <what>. Also ask me about <msg the bot>. We ask that you learn to search for yourself first, unless it is a specific problem. Many questions are asked repeatedly, and the factoid database can be of great help to you. Ask me about <search dpkg>.
15:38<Titan8990>nixeagle, you can also download the db
15:38-!-Tenguch [] has joined #debian
15:39<dpkg>methinks udd is the "ultimate debian database", an effort to gather lots of useful information about debian from a variety of sources and stuff it all into a giant postgres database. see
15:39<Titan8990>postgres IIRC
15:39<Titan8990>oh... says it in the factoid i didn't read :p
15:40<nixeagle>ah thats getting somewhere :)
15:42<nixeagle>Cool this gives me an excuse to figure out databases with lisp
15:42<ml|>nixeagle: oops I should had mentioned dpkgbot a while back :)
15:43<tuxcrafter>hi all
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15:44<tuxcrafter>i am searching for a web ssl for my debian network server to create an portal to several internal websites on the lan
15:44<tuxcrafter>web ssl vpn
15:44<tuxcrafter>so not an solution that needs software on the client systems
15:44<tuxcrafter>(we also got those)
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15:45<dkr>interesting idea. hrm, why not just use an authenticating proxy for access to the websites?
15:46-!-jackyf [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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15:47<dkr>technically that would be a reverse proxy, actually. :)
15:48<tuxcrafter>dkr: i am still a bid investigating
15:49<tuxcrafter>dkr: will a reverse proxy with autrisation (maybe squid) create a ssl tunnel layer trough the browser to dedicated intranet sevices?
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15:52<dkr>tuxcrafter: you could configure it to only proxy via https, yes
15:53<tuxcrafter>dkr: any examples?
15:53<tuxcrafter>btw this is a bit of a FAIL
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15:53<tuxcrafter>spam comments on
15:54-!-olpcfan [] has joined #debian
15:54<kombucha>ok here's a good one. I've installed Lenny on a Sunfire x2200 with 8 Gigs/Ram. Free -m & top both tell me there is less than 1 Gig. Bios sees 8 Gigs. Anyone have any ideas about this??
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15:55<dkr>tuxcrafter: I'd have to read the squid docs to make one, heh
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15:56<kombucha>I don't think I have ever seen a Linux install that didn't recognize the installed RAM. Also it's 4x2GB chips, so not sure how it is that Lenny is only seeing 1 GB
15:57-!-mode/#debian [+l 390] by debhelper
15:58<babilen>kombucha: which architecture? and if x86 -> which kernel?
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15:59<kombucha>686 / 2.6.26
15:59<babilen>kombucha: ah, sun ... disregard that then :-D
15:59<babilen>kombucha: did you install the bigmem kernel?
15:59<kombucha>apparently not
15:59<babilen>kombucha: that might just do the trick ;-)
15:59<kombucha>indeed.... how do I add it now?
16:00<chealer>babilen: Sun Fires can be x86
16:00<ml|>with regular kernel should see ~3gb
16:00<kombucha>it is seeing < 1 GB
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16:00<kombucha>confirmed by top and free -m
16:00<sney`>and /proc/meminfo?
16:01<rik_>post the output of dmesg
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16:01<babilen>chealer: yeah, i realised that as soon as i opened the web page
16:01<kombucha>meminfo is the same, 906292 kB
16:01<olpcfan>Any suggestions on running Sage ( on squeeze? There is no package, and no binary for Debian. :(
16:01<babilen>kombucha: you want the bigmem kernel anyway ..
16:01<babilen>!tell kombucha -about bigmem
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16:02<tuxcrafter>no other ideas beside an reverse proxy to get a ssl webvpn solution on debian
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16:02<dpkg>For i386, -bigmem linux-images support up to 64 GB of RAM. If you have more than about 3.4 GB of RAM, install and use this to see everything past the sub ~3.4 GB limit (but with additional CPU overhead). Alternatively, if you have an <amd64> processor, use an amd64 kernel which doesn't need bigmem.
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16:03<babilen>kombucha: can you install the amd64 on that box? (ie is it a 64bit processor in there?) paste cat /proc/cpuinfo if in doubt
16:04<kombucha>I just had the misfortune of finding out today it doesn't support longbit
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16:04<kombucha>I had thought it would have been a 64, but alas.... imagine my disappointment
16:04<valdyn>kombucha: which kernel exactly? ( uname -r )
16:05<rik_>kombucha: can you post the output of the dmesg command?
16:05<babilen>olpcfan: can't you compile it yourself and install it to /usr/local? you might want to file a RFP (request for packaging)
16:05<valdyn>kombucha: -486 < 1G mem, -686 < 4G mem
16:05<babilen>kombucha: ah, you have the completely wrong kernel
16:05<babilen>kombucha: install the bigmem one and you should be fine
16:05<kombucha>yes I see that
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16:07<babilen>kombucha: isn't the Opteron processor in there capable of 64bit ? please paste 'cat /proc/cpuinfo'
16:08<olpcfan>babilen: I could but I have a feeling it'll get messy; it has mucho dependencies. I'll give it a shot when I'm feeling adventurous
16:08<valdyn>except that sagemath is already in debian
16:08<babilen>olpcfan: file the RFP!
16:09<valdyn>judd: versions sagemath
16:09<judd>valdyn: sagemath -- sid: 3.0.5dfsg-5.1
16:09<olpcfan>babilen: just looking at how to do that now
16:09<valdyn>!tell olpcfan -about ssb
16:09<sney`>all opterons are the amd64 architecture, some are a little feature light but they all support the debian amd64 distribution
16:10<kombucha>sney that's good to know, but when I put in the Lenny 686 install cd it said the architecture did not support long bit addressing
16:10<babilen>olpcfan: valdyn has pointed out that it was already packaged and is available in sid. Just wait until squeeze becomes stable or try to backport it yourself
16:10<kombucha>and to try a 32 bit version of the kernel
16:10<valdyn>!why is sagemath not in testing
16:10<dpkg>sagemath is not in testing for the reasons listed in
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16:11<kombucha> so is this a 64 bit capable processor or not?
16:11<babilen>kombucha: that processor should work with amd64
16:11<sney`>686 is not 64-bit, I'm not sure what that error is about but it's probably related to some funky sun thing
16:11<kombucha>that's what I thought, so I don't understand why the Lenny install CD gave me that mesage about trying a 32 bit kernel instead
16:11<valdyn>judd: versions python-processing
16:11<judd>valdyn: python-processing -- lenny: 0.52-1
16:11<valdyn>how weird
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16:12<kombucha>ok, so do I have to *compile* the bigmem kernel, or *just* install it? :-o
16:12<olpcfan>valdyn: that's interesting
16:12<babilen>kombucha: I would suggest to install the 'amd64' architecture. You can also install the bigmem kernel package ...
16:13<valdyn>kombucha: or you can install an amd64 kernel to your 32-bit debian
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16:13<kombucha>is there a factoid? I don't think I've ever done that before.... in fact, I'm sure I haven't
16:13<chealer>babilen: bigmem is not what he wants, he wants amd64
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16:14<kombucha>wait, this is a 686 processor.... why would I need an amd kernel?
16:14<babilen>but there are several options ... I would install the amd64 architecture
16:14<dpkg>i heard amd64 is the Debian architecture optimized for x86-64, aka AMD64. Consider using Debian i386 on x86-64 machines if you do not have a good reason to use Debian amd64. The amd64 architecture also supports running i386 Debian with either a -686 or -amd64 kernel. core2duo machines are amd64. See and the #debian-amd64 IRC channel on OFTC and freenode. See also <why amd64>.
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16:14<ml|>valdyn: wouldn't that srew up some 32bit apps?
16:14<valdyn>ml|: nope
16:15<babilen>kombucha: amd64 is just the 64bit version of Debian
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16:15<chealer>kombucha: you don't
16:15<kombucha>I like the way dpkg says "I heard"
16:15<chealer>ml|: only exceptions
16:15<valdyn>kombucha: thats a random prefix
16:15<babilen>!why amd64
16:15<dpkg>The Debian architecture that runs on 64-bit processors from AMD and Intel is called "amd64" because the architecture was first developed by AMD. AMD64 is variously known as x86-64, x64, IA-32e, EM64T, EMT64 and Intel 64 (most of which are the Intel marketing people changing their mind). See
16:15<ml|>hmm, iirc i did try that but had issue with vbox or some other app but that was a whie back
16:16<valdyn>ml|: vbox is not just an app, its also kernel modules
16:16<ml|>yes I know
16:17<olpcfan>So sagemath doesn't work in testing because python-processing was removed and replaced by python-multiprocessing, and the package simply hasn't been updated?
16:17<valdyn>olpcfan: probably
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16:18<valdyn>olpcfan: usually such a transition includes the new package having a "Provides: foo" though
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16:19<olpcfan>valdyn: I've seen those before. It appears as though it may be easy to fix, in theory?
16:19<valdyn>olpcfan: if your assumption is correct its easy
16:20<valdyn>olpcfan: i will tias
16:20<babilen>olpcfan: You might just want to try to compile the package yourself and replace the Depends: ... python-processing ... with python-multiprocessing
16:20<babilen>!tell olpcfan -about package recompile
16:20<olpcfan>valdyn: Sure :) But there may be a deeper issue. Hm. What's the learning curve on fixing it myself? :)
16:20<babilen>olpcfan: it might be really easy ... ;-)
16:20<valdyn>olpcfan: I dont know yet
16:21<valdyn>olpcfan: hmm, its even easier than i thought, lets see
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16:25<dpkg>equivs is probably a package that enables you to create dummy packages that tell apt you really have installed (through some other means) the package. apt-get install equivs, and read /usr/share/doc/equivs/*, or see also <usrlocal>
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16:30<valdyn>olpcfan: ok, sagemath wants a whole lot of dependencies, i dont want to try this
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16:30<olpcfan>valdyn: yeah, I know what you mean :)
16:30<valdyn>olpcfan: so: build a fake python-processing package with equivs
16:31<valdyn>olpcfan: then just install sagemath
16:31<olpcfan>valdyn: it's sort of a metapackage of python glue to hold other programs together
16:31<valdyn>olpcfan: if python-multiprocessing provides the same stuff, this will just work
16:31<olpcfan>valdyn: the sid version I guess? interesting. very cool.
16:32<valdyn>olpcfan: yea, probably a waste of time to rebuild
16:32<valdyn>olpcfan: just do not grab the deps from sid
16:32<olpcfan>valdyn: right, grab the deps from testing. ok, I'll give it a shot
16:32<valdyn>olpcfan: i.e. make fake package, dpkg -i that one, dpkg -i sagemath_from_sid, aptitude -f install
16:33<olpcfan>valdyn: PS, there is hope for the future:
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16:37<mortne>Hi, I'm seeking help resolving an upgrade issue on my sarge-system. I edited /etc/apt/sources.list replacing 'stable' with etch, but I get: binutils: Depends: libc6 (>= 2.7-1) but 2.3.6.ds1-13etch7 is installed
16:37<mortne>and the same for 'libc6-dev' and 'locales'
16:37<valdyn>mortne: upgrade to lenny
16:38<mortne>Will that solve my problem? i.e. replace 'etch' from sources.list with 'lenny'
16:38<babilen>mortne: have a look at lenny's release notes
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16:39<olpcfan>valdyn: so the control file will look something like: "Package: python-processing \n Provides: python-multiprocessing" ?
16:39<babilen>mortne: <-- it describes the update process in great detail
16:39<babilen>olpcfan: yes
16:40<valdyn>olpcfan: you only really need to run "equivs-control filename" and edit the Package:
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16:42<mortne>Thanks - I'll give it a read
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16:46<babilen>!tell mortne -about etch->lenny
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16:46<babilen>mortne: that's the procedure in a nutshell
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16:49<olpcfan>babilen, valdyn; I'm drowning in dependencies at the 'aptitude -f install' stage. Score is 250, but sagemath gets removed ... should I just keep kicking it?
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16:52<olpcfan>I'm going to install all the dependencies manually (I suppose this is obviously what I should have done first. :)
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16:54<mortne>@babilen: I fail at the first step - I cannot bring my system up-to-date due to some dependency issue (with upgrade or dist-upgrade).. Should I try to continue anyways, or will I ruin everything?
16:57<ml|>mortne: you should fix those issues first, then continue
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16:58<valdyn>olpcfan: usually either apt-get or aptitude get it right
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17:01<Beryllium>Is there a way to get dd to output to a directory and not a file/filesystem?
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17:03<mortne>Okay, then.. I switch back to all 'stable' in sources.list, do an apt-get update, ignore the GPG-errors and try apt-get dist-upgrade
17:04<mortne>Then I get: The following packages have unmet dependencies. binutils: Depends: libc6 (>= 2.7-1) but 2.3.6.ds1-13etch7 is installed
17:04<mortne>How can I down-grade that?
17:05<olpcfan>mortne: if you just apt-get install libc6, does that work?
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17:07<mortne>Just after 'checking init scripts', I get: WARNING: POSIX threads library NPTL requires kernel version 2.6.8 or later. If you use a kernel 2.4, please upgrade it before installing glibc
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17:08<ml|>mortne: did you mix etch with lenny before starting this?
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17:09<mortne>I started out as sarge, tried etch and was told to go lenny, so yes, probably
17:10<mortne>Am I doomed?
17:10<ml|>should had then done sarge->etch->lenny
17:11<ml|>no mixing in between
17:11<olpcfan>mortne: you may not be doomed, but it sounds like you have a bit of a tangle
17:11<babilen>mortne: did you do a clean upgrade from sarge to etch?
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17:12<mortne>No, that didn't succeed either.
17:12<nixeagle>mortne: an idea: backup your /home (and other important data) just do a clean install ^-^.
17:12<ml|>yes, clean install at this point would better
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17:13<mortne>I was kinda hoping there was a magic trick to avoid that
17:13<nixeagle>mortne: you can spend hours and hours untangling deps and still have a system you are not sure is 100% consistant.
17:13<babilen>mortne: hmm - throwing lenny into the mix does not really help. You can either backup your system and install lenny from scratch or work on your sarge->etch upgrade.
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17:14<nixeagle>mortne: you might have been able to, but I think you have a mixed system with sarge, etch and lenny. Sorting that out is going to be really really messy. To the point that a clean install will probably take you less time and will likely work correctly thereafter.
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17:14<babilen>mortne: It looks like you have to install a 2.6 kernel first and upgrade the reamining packages first. Have a look at etch release notes for that procedure
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17:15<mortne>I'll give that 2.6 kernel a try.. And resort to a fresh install if that causes too many problems...
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17:15<babilen>mortne: but i agree with ml| and nixeagle that a clean lenny install might be the easier solution.
17:16<babilen>mortne: What kind of system are we talking about here? What does it do? How customised are the services it provides?
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17:16<mortne>It's just my private little box running mail, web and dns services, really
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17:17<babilen>mortne: and don't install *any* packages from lenny before the upgrade to etch was sucessful!
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17:18<ml|>regardless you still might need to configure stuff either way; I'd just backup and do a fresh install
17:19<ml|>as config files have changed
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17:20<babilen>i would assume that almost everything has changed
17:20<ml|>yes, since we are starting with sarge ;)
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17:21<Beryllium>I think I have a less messy problem than mixed distro versions
17:22<Beryllium>I've got an .iso that isn't in a recognizable format, googling directed me to dd and genisoimage
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17:22<Beryllium>But I have no desire to nuke a whole device with dd, can I get it to output to just a directory?
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17:23<nixeagle>Beryllium: what are you trying to do
17:23<Beryllium>Dump the contents of the unusable .iso with dd, remake into a useful file with genisoimage
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17:25<nixeagle>what is the .iso?
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17:25<Beryllium>A game image
17:26<nixeagle>Alright, I don't know how to help you, but I suspect you gave enough info for someone else to help :)
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17:28<kop>Beryllium: You've an iso on cd that won't mount, or a file?
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17:28<babilen>Beryllium: What is the output of 'file game.iso' ? What happens if you try to mount it? (mount -o loop -t iso9660 game.iso /mnt/game)
17:28<Beryllium>kop: I have an .iso file
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17:28<babilen>Beryllium: try without the '-t iso9660' option too
17:29<babilen>Beryllium: paste the output of these commands ...
17:29<Beryllium>Yeah, two seconds for all of that
17:29<babilen>Beryllium: Where did you get that ISO from?
17:29<kop>Beryllium: Ok, so as babilen says, mount it loopback. You can then use genisoimage to make a new iso. But why, if you've already got an iso?
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17:30<Beryllium>file foo.iso gives 'data'
17:30<babilen>Beryllium: you will have to create the /mnt/game mount point first
17:31<Beryllium>mounting with -t iso9660 gives an error, dmesg | tail says "ISOFS: Unable to identify CD-ROM format."
17:31<kop>Beryllium: (FYI, if you've got physical media and have a problem you can use dd_rescue to copy the raw image to disk and work from there.)
17:32<Beryllium>I don't have the physical media available, the .iso is my archived copy from an external HDD
17:32<kop>Beryllium: Sounds like it's not really an iso. Some disks are burned with intentional errors so you can't rip them with dd but have to use something like dd_rescue.
17:32<babilen>Beryllium: ah! then mount without -t iso9660
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17:32<kop>Beryllium: (or '-t auto') But it does not sound hopeful.
17:33<Beryllium>if I drop the '-t iso9660' it tells me I must specify the filesystem type
17:33<babilen>Beryllium: Which filesystem was used on the hdd from which you created the iso? Try '-t auto' and '-t fs_type'
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17:33<Beryllium>HDD is NTFS
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17:34<Beryllium>'-t auto' asks for a specified filesystem type, '-t ntfs' says it isn't an ntfs volume
17:34<kop>babilen: I don't believe the iso is a dd of the hd, but was _stored_ on the hd.
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17:34<Beryllium>Yes, that's correct.
17:34<Beryllium>It's a copy of a CD, stored on the HDD
17:34<kop>Beryllium: If file can't recognize it then there are problems.
17:35<kop>Beryllium: How did you make the copy? Sounds like it didn't work.
17:35<Beryllium>Didn't personally make the copy, so I don't know.
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17:35<ml|>sounds like you need to download the iso again or re-rip it
17:35<babilen>Beryllium: try '-t ntfs' or install ntfs-3g and try '-t ntfs-3g' ... but the iso might be corrupted
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17:36<babilen>Beryllium: Just buy the game ;-)
17:36<Beryllium>I have bought the game, I don't have a CD drive on this computer :P
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17:37<ml|>did the iso work before?
17:37<Beryllium>Yeah, worked on windows XP.
17:38<babilen>it might be some strange 'OMG cracked GaMeZ IsO' format :-D
17:38<ml|>was that a while back?
17:38<Beryllium>It was a while ago, yes.
17:38<babilen>Beryllium: Which program did you use to mount/create it on Windows?
17:38<ml|>yup, like kop mentioned before; then it might have gone bad
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17:38<Beryllium>I didn't personally make it.
17:39<babilen>Beryllium: How did you mount it on Windows?
17:39<Beryllium>daemon tools
17:39<l3x>i just installed my video card drivers to run my screen savers, however they only show up on the user root
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17:39<Beryllium>So I think we're on a bit of a tangent for this problem :p
17:40<babilen>should mount with -t iso9660 AFAIK
17:40<ml|>l3x: should not run X as root
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17:40<Beryllium>dd will supposedly output the contents of the .iso, but the tutorial I found has it outputting to /dev/sdb1
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17:41<Beryllium>and I don't want to kill a device, can I get dd to output to a directory instead?
17:41<f_mohr>Beryllium you can dd to a file .. just of=file
17:41<babilen>Beryllium: you can just use any file as argument to 'of'
17:42<babilen>Beryllium: But i doubt that will solve your problem ... It is essentially a very complicated way to copy that file
17:42<ml|>try it but if the iso is protected it might not work
17:42<l3x>ml|, ok, well how come it works with root and not with my other user
17:43<ml|>l3x: no idea I don't use screensavers
17:43<babilen>l3x: How did you install the screensavers ?
17:43<l3x>they came with kde
17:43<ml|>it was just general advice
17:43<babilen>l3x: screensavers for what? a screensaver program? give us more info ...
17:43<l3x>well im using the kde screen savers with gl
17:44<f_mohr>has anyone an idea why 2 identical disks with identical content (rsynced in both directions) have a different output of df ?
17:44<babilen>f_mohr: different block size
17:44<f_mohr>no .. identical filesystem
17:44<f_mohr>Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
17:44<f_mohr>/dev/sdc1 1442145212 888143752 480744660 65% /media/datadisk2-1
17:44<f_mohr>/dev/sda1 1442145212 888143736 480744676 65% /media/datadisk2-2
17:44<mortne>Dumb question: cat /proc/cpuinfo says AuthenticAMD, family 6, model 6, AMD Athlon(tm) Processor, Stepping 2. Am I going for the amd64 or i386 image for re-installation? Didn't there use to be a amd 32-bit version?
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17:45<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or for pics. Use for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>.
17:45<shawn_>I need help to get my sound working still
17:45<f_mohr>diffence of 16 blocks
17:45<babilen>mortne: paste the complete output of cat /proc/cpuinfo on the pastebin just mentioned
17:46<ml|>mortne: 32bit = i386
17:46<babilen>mortne: and you want the i386 ...
17:47<ml|>f_mohr: maybe mbr is on one?
17:48<shawn_>babilen, feel like trying to figure out this sound issues again lol
17:49<f_mohr>also not .. they are usb disks with a project dump archive
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17:49<l3x>babilen, what more info do you want
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17:49<babilen>shawn_: it might help if you give *us* a little more information. What have you tried? What is the issue? What sound adapter do you use? (lspci -nn) .... yadda yadda
17:49<shawn_>babilen, its an HD Intel
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17:50<edbian>What does it mean that I have 3 users logged in at :0 pts/1 and pts/0 ?
17:50<shawn_>we got the right driver, unmuted it and nothing plays
17:50<ml|>yeah, was a wild guess on my part ;)
17:50<shawn_>00:1b.0 Audio device [0403]: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) HD Audio Controller [8086:284b] (rev 02)
17:50<babilen>l3x: How did you install these screensavers? Were they installed as a debian package that came with the kde install? Is it only the gl screensavers that do not run as your user? Any errors in .xsession-errors (or whatever KDE uses for logging) ...
17:51<babilen>shawn_: You have done the !alsa checklist ?
17:51<shawn_>!alsa checklist
17:51<dpkg>1) add yourself to the 'audio' group (log out and log in again) 2) use alsamixer and unmute channels and raise levels (also try muting some channels) 3) arts or esound stopped? 4) OSS modules unloaded? 5) speakers on? 6) modprobe snd-pcm-oss 7) does "aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav" work for root? Test your sound with aplay and a wav so codec issues don't confuse the situation. See also <list alsa users>.
17:51<shawn_>whats arts or esound?
17:51<shawn_>and oss module :P
17:51<babilen>shawn_: /msg dpkg <topic>
17:52<l3x>yea it came with the debian package
17:52<olpcfan>babilen, valdyn; Sage works (so far)! I had to change all references to "processing" to "multiprocessing" in the Python scripts, but it runs without complaint. :)
17:52<babilen>olpcfan: \o/
17:52<ml|>!congratulate olpcfan
17:52<dpkg>Yay olpcfan, you did it!
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17:52<shawn_>dint think its running so ya
17:52<olpcfan>mmm, and it may not be plotting graphs correctly... it can do 1+1 though! hahaha
17:52<l3x>babilen, im not sure if it only happends with gl, im checking now. i don't believe i have xsession errors
17:53<l3x>babilen, seems like X is working fine
17:53<babilen>judd: pciid 8086:284b
17:53<judd>babilen: [8086:284b] is '82801H (ICH8 Family) HD Audio Controller' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel module 'snd-hda-intel' in lenny. See also
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17:53<shawn_>ya we modprobe snd-hda-intel :)
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17:53<Silicium01>Can someone help? I cant play DVD on myd ebain machine
17:54<babilen>shawn_: ok .. and you unmuted the channels. Are the speakers plugged in?
17:54<shawn_>speakers are built in :) its a laptop but ya nothing was muted
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17:54<babilen>Silicium01: ebain is not supported in here ;-) You probably want the dvdcss package from
17:54<l3x>babilen, still get a black screen with other screen savers
17:54<dpkg>i guess libdvdcss2 is a free software library for unscrambling CSS-encrypted DVDs which is not distributed by Debian due to legal concerns. To get it, see /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/README.Debian or ask me about <>.
17:54<Silicium01>babilen, where can i get that?
17:55<shawn_>its weird though at the login, i can hear a loud pitch squeel like when you plug in the wrong rca cable into the tv :)
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17:55<babilen>l3x: Sorry, i have no clue about KDE
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17:56<babilen>Silicium01: You can either download the libdvdcss from or use the version in debian multimedia
17:56<babilen>!tell Silicium01 -about dmm
17:56<shawn_>cant find anything on the OSS modules
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17:57<babilen>shawn_: and the snd-hda-intel loads/unloads without errors? The alsamixer looks correct?
17:57<ml|>shawn_: tried ... speaker-test -t wav -c2
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17:58*babilen scratches head
17:58<shawn_>when i do modprobe snd-hda-intel it shows nothing
17:58<shawn_>zeus:/home/shawn# modprobe -r snd-hda-intel
17:58<shawn_>FATAL: Module snd_hda_intel is in use.
17:58<babilen>shawn_: 'modprove -r snd-hda-intel && modprove snd-hda-intel' 'dmesg | tail -n 23'
17:59<babilen>ah ..
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18:00<shawn_>that command wont work cause its in use
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18:00<Silicium01>babilen, thank you, that worked
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18:03<babilen>shawn_: what is the output of 'cat /proc/asound/cards' ?
18:03<shawn_> 0 [Intel ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel
18:03<shawn_> HDA Intel at 0xf6dfc000 irq 21
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18:04<babilen>shawn_: looks fine
18:04<locklace>shawn_: lsmod | grep pcsp
18:04<shawn_>i just cant hear anything lol
18:04<shawn_>pcspkr 2104 0
18:04<dpkg>hmm... pcspkr is makes an annoying BEEPing <bell> sound from within your computer (usually a piezo spkr, attached to the Motherboard). Add "blacklist pcspkr" to any file in /etc/modprobe.d/ (/blacklist, /local, /blacklist.local, etc) to kill it -- and/or "blacklist snd_pcsp" since 2.6.26 kernels - 'alsamixer' might show a PC Speak[er] slider/option as well. Ensure /etc/modules does not contain any modules you're blacklisting.
18:04<locklace>blacklist that bastard
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18:05<babilen>shawn_: Could you try with external speakers please?
18:05<shawn_>i dont have a pair :(
18:05<babilen>shawn_: headphones?
18:05<shawn_>so i added blacklist pcspkr to /etc/alsa-blacklist
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18:06<locklace>shawn_: then reboot, and check the blacklist worked with lsmod again
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18:06<babilen>locklace: that won't solve his snd-hda-intel problem ... But it is an important thing nonetheless
18:06<ml|>isn't his issue no sound?
18:07-!-mode/#debian [+l 380] by debhelper
18:08<ml|>I just mute pcspkr here
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18:09<babilen>ml|: just kill it *evilgrin*
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18:10<shawn_>k back
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18:11<shawn_>so i dont see it
18:11<locklace>shawn_: lsmod | grep pcsp again to make sure, then run speaker-test -t wav -c 2 in one shell and alsamixer in another. in alsamixer you may have to mute or unmute various channels for things to work, hit f3, f4, f5, etc. to see more
18:12<shawn_>nothing there
18:13<shawn_>its playing out of my headphones but its coming from my speakers wtf lol
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18:13<locklace>!congratulate shawn_
18:13<dpkg>Hugs & Puppies shawn_, you did it!
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18:14<nixeagle>cool found more broken stuff in sid finally \o/
18:15<shawn_>woot :)
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18:15<shawn_>but its really quite
18:15<shawn_>and its full blast
18:16<nixeagle>shawn_: its a good thing. I have been trying to find something broken on my system the last hour so I can try figuring it out :P
18:16<babilen>shawn_: you can adjust the levels .. and mute channels with 'm' (did you really unmute PCM and master?) Don't know where the channel fuckup is coming from .. :-\
18:16<dpkg>cesare: VATTENE VIA
18:17*nixeagle was getting a little worried
18:17<babilen>nixeagle: Why do worry if you don't find anything that is broken?
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18:17<shawn_>everything is unmuted but u know what... i kinda dont care.... i got sound :D
18:18<nixeagle>babilen: well I wanted to find something broken that I knew something about so I could learn how to fix it
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18:18<babilen>nixeagle: ah ...
18:18<babilen>nixeagle: ever considered installing gentoo?
18:18<nixeagle>babilen: I'm coming from gentoo. In fact my non sid partition is gentoo stable
18:19<nixeagle>That used to be testing back when I was writing some ebuilds
18:19<babilen>nixeagle: Ok. I just suggested that because I know that installing Gentoo teaches a lot about linux ... I would just not use it afterwards
18:20<nixeagle>babilen: I've used it for 2 years.
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18:21<dpkg>Gentoo Linux causes global warming! Needlessly recompiling everything uses power. Fossil fuels are used to generate that power. See also <diminishing returns on bogomips>. Hug a tree, use Debian!
18:21-!-goodger [] has joined #debian
18:21<nixeagle>lol :)
18:21<shawn_>is there still xmms?
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18:21<locklace>judd versions xmms2
18:21<judd>locklace: xmms2 -- etch: 0.2DrGonzo-4.1 lenny: 0.5DrLecter-2 sid: 0.5DrLecter-2 squeeze: 0.6DrMattDestruction-5 sid: 0.6DrMattDestruction-6 sid: 0.6DrMattDestruction-7
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18:22<babilen>nixeagle: I would suggest reading the "Securing Debian Manual" if you want to learn something new.
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18:22<meik>did anyone knows have to minimers irssi - in debian
18:22-!-engy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:22<ml|>that has some good stuff
18:22<nixeagle>babilen: I might. I just like hacking.
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18:23<nixeagle>anyway I have a conflict to solve
18:23<ml|>good luck :)
18:23<nixeagle>ml|: thanks, can't be worse then circular dependencies on gentoo
18:23<babilen>shawn_: You probably want audacious
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18:24<nixeagle>Just I don't know how to go about fixing it yet :P.
18:24<locklace>especially if you love core dumps
18:24<babilen>nixeagle: What is the problem?
18:24<Mish->I want to get a list of "available updates" in Debian, and I mean, just the list of updates. I'm currently using this horrible command, there must be a better way: aptitude -s -y upgrade 2>&1 | grep -A 10000 "packages will be" | grep -vi "packages will be" | grep -B 10000 "not upgraded" | grep -vi "not upgraded" | grep -vi "are recommended"
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18:24<ml|>mpd moc are would alternatives
18:24<nixeagle>babilen: give me a bit to flounder first :)
18:25<dpkg>rumour has it, apticron is a utility to notify the system administrator about packages pending an upgrade (e.g. security updates for stable) via a daily email. The relevant packages are also downloaded but not installed. As of aptitude 1.1.21, a random execution time will be generated at postinst, to prevent a denial of service against Debian servers. See also <cron-apt>.
18:25<babilen>Mish-: try 'aptitude ~U'
18:25<shawn_>how come when i installed xmms2 it didnt install the shortcut to the list?
18:25<nixeagle>I'd rather learn how now when I don't care if it works today then getting frustrated when I do care.
18:25<babilen>Mish-: have a look at the 'Search term reference' in the aptitude manual
18:25<Mish->babilen: Unknown command "~U"
18:26<babilen>Mish-: sorry, brainfart. 'aptitude search ~U'
18:27<babilen>shawn_: check out audacious
18:27<Mish->babilen: To save me searching on this, is there an additional parementer to just show the package names?
18:28<shawn_>ah thats xmms?
18:30<babilen>Mish-: Probably ... but you could just use "aptitude search ~U | cut -f 4 -d ' '"
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18:31<Mish->babilen: Nope! The columns don't always line up, hence the issue. :)
18:31<nixeagle>apt-rdepend looks useful
18:31<babilen>shawn_: it's a fork of a fork of xmms
18:32<shawn_>o hehe
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18:32<Mish->babilen: Cheers, got it! - aptitude -F %p search ~U
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18:33<nixeagle>mmm, if I wanted to show all possible information about a package as a dump of text to the console, how do I go about it?
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18:34<babilen>Mish-: Yeah, i was just looking into that ... good you've found it
18:35<babilen>nixeagle: define 'all possible information'
18:35<babilen>nixeagle: You want to have the date when you downloaded it?
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18:36<babilen>nixeagle: have a look at /var/lib/dpkg/status (and the other files in that directory)
18:37-!-mode/#debian [+l 374] by debhelper
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18:38<babilen>nixeagle: or run 'dpkg -l' ... but it is hard to help you if you don't tell us what information you are after. I doubt for example that the time when the maintainer took her last bath is recorded in the package database for example
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18:39<ml|>babilen: why not? we want that info ;)
18:39<babilen>ml|: should bring it up on d-d then ...
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18:40*babilen just hoped that this won't hurt Debian's reputation as a secure and 'clean' distribution
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18:46<babilen>ok, would you like me to solve a little issue?
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18:47<babilen>I am using a synaptic touchpad that i configure through HAL (i'll paste it in a second) ... It stopped working after Xorg update, or rather my configuration is not longer applied
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18:47<babilen>I can enable everything just fine with 'synclient' , but the configuration is missing after some time (>= 1h)
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18:49<babilen>i am running squeeze ...
18:49<babilen>any ideas?
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18:54<ml|>babilen: I have a .fdi for my T23 and works here; I'm on squeeze also
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18:55<babilen>ml|: weird ... t60 here
18:55<babilen>ml|: which window manager/desktop environment do you use?
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18:56<babilen>might be some 'gnome-settings-daemon' magic ...
18:57<ml|>I use xmonad no gnome here
18:58<babilen>ml|: I use xmonad without Gnome here too ..
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18:58<babilen>ok, i see you match on something different. Maybe the capabilities of the touchpad are not set correctly ..
18:59<babilen>babilen: paste the output of lshal please :-D
18:59<babilen>no, it contains input.touchpad ...
18:59<ml|>yes, not for the same thing but it works here so I wonder why yours does not
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19:00<babilen>it's not a big problem
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19:01<catlady>newbie question: any advantages to switching from buntu to debian on desktop?
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19:02<babilen>!why debian
19:02<dpkg>Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also (archived at As an added bonus, you get to ask questions in #debian.
19:03<catlady>thank you..I will check them out...
19:03<babilen>catlady: Why do you consider it? Are you unhappy with Ubuntu?
19:04<catlady>karmic upgrade was such a many issues....thinking about stability
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19:05<babilen>catlady: you will get that with Debian ..
19:05<babilen>catlady: I would just try it ... you could also install it on a virtual machine first to get a feeling for it
19:06<catlady>babilen: sounds good, plus more options to customize I'll bet
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19:06<babilen>catlady: Just try it. If you have any questions just come here (or #debian@freenode) and ask .. we will assist you
19:07<catlady>ok thanks again..bye
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19:07<newbe>Hi there!! i trying to install debian on my emachine e525 series, and i having problem with the lan driver, i downloaded the driver i need, but i dont understand how i can load the drivers due install.. any one that can explain it to me?
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19:09<abrotman>downloaded ?
19:09<locklace>newbe: paste the output of "lspci -knn" at
19:09<abrotman>which driver do you think you need ?
19:09<newbe>all i found is that i need to compile it, but how do i do that on a clean machine during the setup..
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19:11<newbe>AR81Family <- the driver i need, i have it *.tar, but then what? there is my problem.. :P or do i need to do a complete install, then compile it?
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19:16<HardwareFreak>I just installed Roundcube via Lenny backports. I use lighttpd. I answered the installer questions correctly. It stopped and started lighttpd to make config changes. When I hit I get a "403 forbidden" error. I can't find an installation or troubleshooting document. I have no idea what the problem is. Help appreciated.
19:17<retrospectacus>HardwareFreak: that would be file permissions or incorrect DirectoryIndex directive, methinks
19:17<HardwareFreak>i checked the lighttpd.error.log and there's nothing in it.
19:18<newbe>locklace: i dont have anything to paste there, i trying to install it on a clean HD, i dont have any OS, all i have is the CD with debian on it, then the driver i need to install as a *.tar file, and now im stuck. during the install i get asked if i have drivers, i do but not compiled.. (sorry, didnt see u asking me to paste untill now)
19:18<HardwareFreak>retrospectacus: can you drop a few more crumbs?
19:19<locklace>newbe: you don't need to compile anything or install your own drivers. most likely what you need to do is use a backport installer image
19:19<locklace>!tell newbe about kmuto
19:19<retrospectacus>HardwareFreak: find the roundcube directory and ls -l it, make sure the directory and subdirs are readable and executable by the lighttpd. If the file is index.php try browsing to .../index.php
19:20<HardwareFreak>retrospectacus: zero Roundcube files were written to /var/www They're all linked.
19:21<HardwareFreak>retrospectacus: and to be completely honest, I am a total nub when it comes to hard/symlinks and permissions stuff. Also, on a vanilla Lenny install, why would the installer script screw me like this?
19:21<retrospectacus>the web server must have "follow links" enabled... I'm not familiar with lighttpd
19:21<retrospectacus>it wants you to use apache? :P
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19:24<matt__>sup doods
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19:31<nixeagle>ah sorry guys, by show all info I mean all relevant info about the package, eg bug count, dependencies, versions and so forth.
19:32<nixeagle>I'm probably just going to have to read the apt manual all the way to get what I want and what I had on gentoo
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19:33<abrotman>nixeagle: there are different tools to do each
19:33<nixeagle>abrotman: I know, I was hoping for some sort of summary
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19:33<shawn_>abrotman, i got my sound working :D
19:34<Mish->Generally, why are updates "kept back"?
19:34<abrotman>nixeagle: none that i'm aware of ..
19:34<abrotman>!tell Mish- about held back
19:34<nixeagle>alright, I'll script one
19:34<miihackwii>hi all does anyone now how to fix medusa im getting an error saying that libssh2 is broken
19:34<newbe>locklace: thnx, that worked :) how come the debian iso dont identify the drivers, would be nice if it did :)
19:34<locklace>!congratulate newbe
19:34<dpkg>Good show newbe, you did it!
19:35<shawn_>i installed firefox but its missing lol
19:35<abrotman>you mean iceweasel?
19:35<shawn_>mozilla firefox
19:35<miihackwii>im getting this error when trying to fix it
19:36<ml|>shawn_: how did you install firefox?
19:36<abrotman>!tell miihackwii about overwrite
19:36<shawn_>aptitude install firefox i think :D
19:36<abrotman>miihackwii: please go to the backtrack channel for help
19:36<nixeagle>shawn_: iceweasel?
19:36<ml|>shawn_: no way
19:37<shawn_>maybe it didnt work then lol
19:37<ml|>there is no firefox in debian
19:37<miihackwii>why its ubuntu
19:37<shawn_>i hate this k one :(
19:37-!-mode/#debian [+o abrotman] by ChanServ
19:37-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*] by abrotman
19:37<ml|>dpkg: tell shawn_ about iceweasel
19:37-!-mode/#debian [-o abrotman] by abrotman
19:37<ml|>dpkg: tell shawn_ about why iceweasel
19:37<nixeagle>shawn_: due to issues with the mozilla foundation about logos, debian has firefox minus the branding
19:37<abrotman>miihackwii: please go to #ubuntu on for support, you're offtopic here
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19:38<shawn_>how do i get it ?
19:38<abrotman>install iceweasel
19:38<ml|>aptitude install iceweasel
19:39<shawn_>tried it lol
19:39<ml|>shawn_: read what dpkg told you
19:39<HardwareFreak>lighttpd's documentation is a freaking joke...
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19:39<shawn_>aptitude install iceweasel failed
19:40<HardwareFreak>actually, it's fucking non-existent. "man lighttpd" nothing but the author info and a description
19:40<shawn_>oh its installed already anyways lol
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19:40<ml|>HardwareFreak: try thier web site?
19:41<newbe>i like this channel, it looks like a channel should.. 353 users and 2 ops.. heh ;) often the other way. 353 ops and 2 users :P
19:41<babilen>newbe: they hide ;-)
19:41<interbird>I know this is ot but I have this situation: friend on modem that has 1 port but also is router; win & linux dual boot; dhcp does not work; my laptop work as does also his girlfriends; tried 5 nics in combination with installes linux and xp; dhcp does not work; cable is ok; Dunno where to go from here...
19:42<newbe>babilen: i hope they all arent op.. even due they hide :)
19:42<ml|>sometimes we have no ops here
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19:43<locklace>interbird: so you managed to figure out that dhcp can fail for reasons unrelated to the physical card or cable. congratulations
19:43<abrotman>newbe: chan policy is that ops don't stay oped
19:43<abrotman>or shouldn't anyways
19:43<interbird>locklace: kinda, yeh, i guess...
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19:47<interbird>locklace: especially the "physical" stuff i changed to get dhcp working... but i know you don't have the answer for this either.
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19:48<locklace>!fgi interbird troubleshoot-dhcp
19:50<newbe>grr, im not supposed tol get debian into the comp.. now it says the mirror site dont have the right debian Archive, or its not avalible.. (all mirrors). could it still be something with my network or connection? :/
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19:53<abrotman>newbe: or malformed source
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19:55<newbe>so i should try from install again? or even download the iso again? (used low speed on my DVD writer 4x)..
19:55<newbe>- from *
19:55<locklace>newbe: network problem is the most likely. drop to another shell by hitting alt-f2, or f3, ... in the installer and check your network interface status and ip address with ifconfig -a, your routing table with netstat -rn, and see if you can ping your gateway
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19:56<interbird>locklace: I like dpkg's link you gave me :-) But before I google for more serious stuff I ask this channel, so dpkg should point this one to itself and saying that you are a fool if you cannot find a link and a bot has to supply it for you. Anyway, thanks for pointing in some direction.
19:57<locklace>the rule is stfw first, ask in the channel after
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19:58<interbird>we could argue about that
19:58<abrotman>could we not?
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20:05<interbird>no valueable info on google about my probbie^; but maybe some more knowlegable persons on this channel can tell me why dhcp on this router works for all connected computers but not for this one with 5 nics replaced and two osses? i see no logic in this problem (as if there should be any logic in problems)
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20:06<abrotman>maybe you could use a pastebin and paste some useful info ?
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20:09<interbird>sorry abrotman, i'm away from the problem-site now. i just gambled on one of you ever met the same prob. i know i haven't. will search other resources. thanks for the help abrotman and locklace.
20:10<abrotman>so you couldn't have given us any useful information anyways .. great, thanks
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20:12<interbird>well, if somebody tells you he hears a strange sound when driving his car like a tire is blew and the bare metal is hurting the road it makes no sense to ask for the ABS-data, does it ?
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20:13<abrotman>interbird: that's just ridiculous .. have a good night
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20:16<interbird>abrotman: dunno what's rediculous about that, but you have a good day too. no harm or pun intended by me.
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20:23<mercutio22>I just moved my windows partition to another drive using dd. Is it possible to have grub2 recognize that and fix the mbr so windows becomes bootable?
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20:28<interbird>mercutio22: moving windows can be hard; it remembers it's partition-index
20:28<interbird>mercutio22: you might have to change boot.ini and other stuff...
20:28<mercutio22>interbird: I realize it now.. =[
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20:30<interbird>mercutio22: The moved parition will still be accessible from Linux when mounted, but to boot it from the new location can be hard depending on the version of windows that was moved.
20:31<mercutio22>interbird: its windows7. Maybe this could help
20:31<mercutio22>interbird: have you ever done it?
20:31<interbird>Nah, sorry, don't use windows myself
20:33<interbird>Moved XP around in the past but I had to do a lot of stuff I've now forgotten to get it to boot again
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20:36<mercutio22>interbird: alright.. thanks for the input.
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20:36<interbird>mercutio22: Rule for a multiboot with win is: install win first; then other system (not Solaris); tyen reboot win and if still ok then go customize. Grub (legacy) is a fine bootloader and windows still assumes it ownes a drive...
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20:48<HardwareFreak>anyone got a command line for a permissions nub to change user and group ownership of the current directory to www-data whilst leaving the permissions on the files in the dir intact?
20:48<interbird>I'm having some lockups with a kernel that has KMS. It's on an Intel 855GM videcard on a laptop. I know of X having a same lockup-problem, especially in Lenny, but this one could be related to kms. I've tried to trace but it's a hard hang. Does anyone have any experience with kms on other videcards ?
20:49<gdb>HardwareFreak: chown www-data:www-data .
20:50<HardwareFreak>gdb: thanks. not sure if it's really what I need to be doing, but I don't know how else to fix this
20:51<HardwareFreak>gdb: you happen to have installed Roundcube by chance?
20:51<HardwareFreak>gdb: I just did, and it seems the installer didn't set permissions correctly on the php files that make up the web UI
20:52<HardwareFreak>gdb: or I should say, on the directory in which they reside
20:52<interbird>HardwareFreak: otherwise check the acl and attr packages and eiciel for Gnome Nautilus and the filesystems you use; ext3,4,jfs,reiser3,reiser4,xfs all supports attrs and acls but some fs's need special mount parameters for that.
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20:53<abrotman>HardwareFreak: which installer ?
20:53-!-hever [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:54<HardwareFreak>abrotman: the Lenny backport of Roundcube 2.2. The resulting installation is completely hosed, won't run. I've tracked the cause down to permissions on the /var/lib/roundcube dir
20:54<abrotman>you mean /usr/lib/roundcube ?
20:55<HardwareFreak>abrotman: like I said, it's hosed. There are sym/hard links to it's files all over the freaking place. It's such a mess I can't hardly follow what's going on....
20:55<abrotman>HardwareFreak: i doubt it's hosed .. did you try reading the docs in /usr/share/doc/roundcube/ ?
20:55<gdb>HardwareFreak: For web content to be readable by the web server, all the files need to be either world readable, with directories being world executable, or all the content needs to be owned by the process that httpd is running as, or they need to be readable by the group that httpd is running as.
20:55<gdb> HardwareFreak: What are the current permissions/ownerships of the files?
20:56<abrotman>i'm sure the package is fine
20:56<HardwareFreak>abrotman: the lenny installer says during the installation that for Apache and Lighttpd the installation is fully automatic. I haven't been able to find docs anywhere that tell me how to fix this blown install.
20:57<interbird>chmod -R +X on docroot accessed by a (virtual host) webserver could help
20:57<abrotman>interbird: do you have any idea what you're doing ?
20:57<abrotman>HardwareFreak: okay, so what is the Alias that the package setup ?
20:58<HardwareFreak>sec, pastebin running sloooowww
20:58<abrotman> please
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21:00<interbird>abrotman: After reading his pastebin: yes
21:00<abrotman>HardwareFreak: okay, i've used it with apache, not lighttpd, what is the error in the server log ?
21:00<hachi>I'm trying to use the evtouch calibration program, but I can't get it to run because it's looking for an X font that follow the spec '*freemono*'
21:00<hachi>does anyone know how to find a font that can satisfy this?
21:00<abrotman>interbird: no you don't
21:01<HardwareFreak>I couldn't find any earlier. Let check again.
21:01<abrotman>your httpd has no logs at all ?
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21:03<HardwareFreak>my /var/www has www-data for both user:group owner but all the files in the dir are user:group owned by root. But anyone can get them via a browser. The dir where the Roundcube files are located is user:group owned by root. Most of the files within, including the main index.php file, are user:gropu owned by root. Two files are group owned by www-data. So, the Roundcube permissions are...
21:03<HardwareFreak>...f--ked, and the dir and files with were created by the isntaller. So, the installer must be hosed.
21:03<abrotman>i asked what the log said ..
21:03<HardwareFreak>abrotman: there nothing but start/stops in /var/log/lighttpd/error.log
21:03<abrotman>or what happens when you browse to your site ?
21:04<abrotman>HardwareFreak: turn up the log verbosity?
21:05<abrotman>or at least tell us what the error is in your browser
21:06<simonrvn>lemme guess, php files get downloaded?
21:06<HardwareFreak>abrotman: 403 - Forbidden
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21:06<HardwareFreak>abrotman: did you read the pastebin?
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21:06<abrotman>the first pastebin ?
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21:07<HardwareFreak>simonrvn: !! sup master of Debian
21:07<simonrvn>probably... as the default config for lighttpd is it prevents that from happening - due to it being set as a 403 instead of downloading thing....
21:07<simonrvn>the thing*
21:07<gsimmons>HardwareFreak: IME, manual adjustment of permissions was not required for files provided by the backported roundcube package. I was required to enable fastcgi (lighty-enable-mod fastcgi, invoke-rc.d lighttpd force-reload) and set the language within roundcube's configuration (Debian bug 544579).
21:07<simonrvn>don't say that
21:07<HardwareFreak>simonrvn: have you come to rescue me? (again lol)
21:07<abrotman>HardwareFreak: you need ot figure out how to make your httpd log ..
21:07<simonrvn>no. just my 2 smokes' worth of input
21:08<simonrvn>HardwareFreak: see what gsimmons said
21:08<simonrvn>you might consider installing spawn-fcgi too
21:08<HardwareFreak>gsimmons: I'm gonna kiss you if that works. I don't remember seeing fastcgi as one of the requirements in the docs...
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21:09<simonrvn>it is, that's how php in lighty works..
21:11<HardwareFreak>now I get an "unable to connect" to the /roundtree subdir, but I can get to the doc-root fine
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21:14<HardwareFreak>so what am I still missing? Oh, one other thing, even before starting this Roundcube install, I get this when starting lighty: Starting web server: lighttpd/usr/sbin/lighttpd: Symbol `FamErrlist' has different size in shared object, consider re-linking. Is that bad?
21:15<simonrvn>ignore that
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21:16<simonrvn>!ops MaMaDaS racist spam
21:16<dpkg>Hydroxide, bob2, caphuso, dondelelcaro, doogie, eeyore-, ElectricElf, ):, helix, ljlane, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, Netsnipe, TML, walters, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Alife, Myon, Ganneff, Maulkin, weasel, zobel, themill: simonrvn complains about: MaMaDaS racist spam
21:16-!-Athunye_ [] has joined #debian
21:16<MaMaDaS>didn't do nothing!
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21:17<MaMaDaS>!ops simonrvn racist spam
21:17<dpkg>Hydroxide, bob2, caphuso, dondelelcaro, doogie, eeyore-, ElectricElf, ):, helix, ljlane, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, Netsnipe, TML, walters, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Alife, Myon, Ganneff, Maulkin, weasel, zobel, themill: mamadas complains about: simonrvn racist spam
21:17<simonrvn>abrotman: /msg ?
21:17<abrotman>simonrvn: he's selective
21:17<abrotman>MaMaDaS: go away
21:17-!-mode/#debian [+o abrotman] by ChanServ
21:17-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*] by abrotman
21:17-!-MaMaDaS was kicked from #debian by abrotman [MaMaDaS]
21:17-!-mode/#debian [-o abrotman] by abrotman
21:17<abrotman>or dumb
21:17<HardwareFreak>that's what i figured. My lenny is stock, and my lighty is the lenny package. The only non .deb app I've got is IOzone
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21:18<gsimmons>HardwareFreak: ITYM /roundcube. Do you have the php5-cgi package installed?
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21:19<HardwareFreak>gsimmons: crap. I thought I'd got all the php5 dependencies. I was missing that one. Installing it now.
21:20<simonrvn>abrotman: meh, weechat locked up on me trying to paste the garbage to you in /query. probably just as well ;p.
21:20<abrotman>simonrvn: he did end up msging me ...
21:21<simonrvn>probably the same thing ...
21:21<abrotman>nothing i'd care to see repeated
21:21<HardwareFreak>gsimmons: Installed it and restarted lighty. I still get "can't connect"
21:21<simonrvn>for sure
21:21-!-dvs [] has joined #debian
21:21<simonrvn>picked on the wrong ndn
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21:22<HardwareFreak>gsimmons: mind taking me down the php5 dependency list? I'm probably missing more.
21:22<cesurasean>upgraded to squeeze, and now im getting a busybox. can't find my raid.
21:23<cesurasean>i got this error before i rebooted. - W: mdadm: If this array is required to boot, you must add the following line:
21:23<cesurasean>W: mdadm: ARRAY /dev/md/0 UUID=0389404f:8c408a1c:9de0b621:9935d2d7
21:23<HardwareFreak>gsimmons: I went by the doc on Roundcube's site for 3.1 since there are no "preinstall requirement docs" on the backports site...
21:23<cesurasean>but that does not seem to work?
21:23<simonrvn>HardwareFreak: you have php5-cgi installed? 'cause that's what you need ...
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21:23<nixeagle>emacs-snapshot is not in the debian repos anymore, so packages depending on that need to depend on emacsen instead right?
21:23<HardwareFreak>simonrvn: I didn't, but now I do. But I still get "can't connect" in Firefox
21:24<HardwareFreak>simonrvn: and I restarted lighty after installing php5-cgi
21:24<simonrvn>you configured it? it should be in the conf already (IIRC), just need to uncomment IIRC
21:24<HardwareFreak>ahh, nope
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21:24<HardwareFreak>just did the aptitude install php5-cgi and that's it
21:24<simonrvn>you wouldn't have to restart it for that...
21:24<simonrvn>(the daemon)
21:25<simonrvn>nixeagle: -snapshot was never in the repos i don't think.
21:26<dpkg>badram is, like, a Linux kernel patch that allows you to safely use RAM modules that have errors. Packaged for Debian as kernel-patch-badram. memtest86 and memtest86+ can provide the parameters to supply to a badram-enabled kernel, ask me about <memtest>.
21:27<nixeagle>ah, well I'm trying to figure out why some packages want me to install emacs22 or 23 instead of what I already have (snapshot). The deps don't seem to list snapshot or emacsen as an option which is probably why.
21:27<cesurasean>can someone help me reconfigure grub to boot into my RAID 1?
21:28<gsimmons>HardwareFreak: See /var/log/lighttpd/error.log and /var/log/roundcube/errors for anything glaring.
21:28<simonrvn>nixeagle: some packages are a bit brain-damaged that way, sometimes it's for a good reason, some not.
21:28<nixeagle>simonrvn: alright, so if no good reason for it on bts file a bug?
21:28<simonrvn>erm, rephrase
21:28<simonrvn>some have deps like that for a good reason, some don't =)
21:29<goodger>OK... dpkg's "badram" tells me to see "memtest", which refers me back to "badram"
21:29<nixeagle>simonrvn: I'm not a stranger to developing emacs lisp. If the package has no good reason for it, file a bug is the way to get it fixed?
21:29<goodger>neither project's website has any obvious information on the problem
21:29<HardwareFreak>simonrvn: are these what I'm supposed to uncomment? #index-file.names = (foo + ".php") + index-file.names
21:29<HardwareFreak>#index-file.names += (foo + ".php")
21:29<abrotman>goodger: which problem ?
21:29<simonrvn>nixeagle: plus patches if needed =)
21:29<goodger>abrotman: the problem of using memtest with badram
21:30<nixeagle>simonrvn: I doubt patches are needed for some of these. I was running them on trunk emacs before I switched t deb
21:30<simonrvn>HardwareFreak: eh, be careful with that.
21:30<nixeagle>*to debian
21:30<cesurasean>no one can help me out? :/
21:30<simonrvn>HardwareFreak: #lighttpd on freenode
21:30<nixeagle>It ought to be just "add an option to depend on -snapshot or emacsen"
21:30<simonrvn>first thing: read the topic
21:30<simonrvn>nixeagle: yeh
21:31<cesurasean>i am only getting a busybox after upgrading to squeeze. how do i reconfigure mdadm? It tells me to add a line to mdadm.conf, which does not seem to work...
21:31<interbird>abrotman: you're right, i'm gonna have to live with that for the next few days. cool response. bye.
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21:32<abrotman>eh ?
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21:32<abrotman>goodger: oh, you want to use memtest results to feed to badram .. got it
21:33<goodger> I was saying, both projects' websites lack any visible instructions for using memtest86+ to generate instructions for badram; does anyone know how to do this? ._.
21:33<nixeagle>cesurasean: if you want help, please be very specific with what your problem is, what you tried and what errors you are getting. Pastebin some or all of this if you have to. Nobody is going to volunteer to "reconfigure grub to boot into my RAID 1" because nobody knows your setup or how much work that entails.
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21:34<cesurasean>its a simple RAID 1 config, i got this error: W: mdadm: You appear to be missing /dev/md/0 from /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf !
21:34<cesurasean>W: mdadm: If this array is required to boot, you must add the following line:
21:34<cesurasean>W: mdadm: ARRAY /dev/md/0 UUID=0389404f:8c408a1c:9de0b621:9935d2d7
21:34<nixeagle>dpkg tell cesurasean about pastebin
21:34<goodger>ah, the badram site has instructions for LILO users
21:35-!-brewmastr [] has joined #debian
21:35<goodger>...not immediately helpful as the last time I saw LILO in use was Mandrake 8.2
21:35<nixeagle>cesurasean: put all the info in the pastebin and help people help you.
21:35<nixeagle>Everything you think is remotely relevant
21:35<HardwareFreak>uuuggggghhhhhh: 2010-01-06 20:10:29: (mod_fastcgi.c.904) bind failed for: unix:/tmp/php.socket-0 Permission denied
21:36<HardwareFreak>2010-01-06 20:10:29: (mod_fastcgi.c.1358) [ERROR]: spawning fcgi failed.
21:36<HardwareFreak>2010-01-06 20:10:29: (server.c.908) Configuration of plugins failed. Going down.
21:36<cesurasean>that is the only message i got before i rebooted.
21:36-!-raylu [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:36<cesurasean>thing is, i also messed up the UUID that was currently there
21:37<cesurasean>what is the best way to redo this? live cd installing grub with apt-get or something?
21:37*HardwareFreak thought this would be an easy install, going off the word of the folks on the Dovecot mailing list...
21:37<nixeagle>cesurasean: please listen to what I just said. Useful things to include, what command did you do, what is your config, info about the hardware, debian version, and so on. Help people here help you.
21:37<cesurasean>HardwareFreak, what are the permissions on tmp?
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21:39<HardwareFreak>cesurasean: drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4.0K Jan 6 17:32 .
21:39<HardwareFreak>cesurasean: isn't that a hard standard for /tmp permissions?
21:39<cesurasean>it's a k7 motherboard, which has had problems in the past. i had another machine which upgraded fine, so yeah that could be an issue. debian squeeze, as i stated like 4 times before. raid 1, 2 IDE hard drives. i upgraded from lenny to squeeze.....
21:39<cesurasean>yeah, but apparently it doesn't have permission.
21:40<cesurasean>make tmp 777
21:40<cesurasean>see if that works
21:40<HardwareFreak>cesurasean: lighty runs as www-root just as Apache does, for security sake
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21:40<cesurasean>yeah, it may be the owners.
21:40<cesurasean>either way, it's a permission problem.
21:41<HardwareFreak>there a big downside to changing /tmp to 777?
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21:41<cesurasean>not really, it's a temp directory. i don't see a problem with it, but someone else might.
21:41<abrotman>HardwareFreak: wtf .. stop screwing with permissions .. you're going to break something
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21:42<ml|> /tmp needs 1777
21:42<HardwareFreak>abrotman: logged into #lighttpd and not a soul there but me ...
21:42<cesurasean>i figured tmp did need something special
21:42<abrotman>HardwareFreak: on freenode ?
21:42<HardwareFreak>abrotman on
21:43<abrotman>that's not
21:44<ml|>cesurasean: man chmod and read on sticky bit
21:44<HardwareFreak>yeah I see that now
21:44<nixeagle>cesurasean: thats a start, I don't know the answer for you but its hard to help you if you don't tell us that sort of stuff.
21:44<HardwareFreak>so should I chmod /tmp to see if that fixes this?
21:45<nixeagle>HardwareFreak: try it on just the one socket
21:45<nixeagle>you can undo it later
21:45<HardwareFreak>nixeagle: I don't know what that means
21:45<abrotman>do not change the perms on /tmp/
21:45<nixeagle>well do what ml| said
21:46<ml|>I said not to touch /tmp
21:46<cesurasean>HardwareFreak, you shouldn't need to change unless you have done something previously.
21:46<cesurasean>otherwise it should be the correct settings
21:46<HardwareFreak>cesurasean: I haven't. Merely trying to get Roundcube working.
21:46<nixeagle>yeah I realize that ml| ^-^, but he has permission errors
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21:46<nixeagle>HardwareFreak: what does ls -l /tmp give?
21:47<ml|> /tmp 1777 = drwxrwxrwt
21:47<HardwareFreak>2010-01-06 20:34:53: (mod_fastcgi.c.904) bind failed for: unix:/tmp/php.socket-0 Permission denied
21:47<HardwareFreak>2010-01-06 20:34:53: (mod_fastcgi.c.1358) [ERROR]: spawning fcgi failed.
21:47<HardwareFreak>2010-01-06 20:34:53: (server.c.908) Configuration of plugins failed. Going down.
21:47<cesurasean>you are having permissions problems in /tmp/, which either means wrong chmod, or owners.
21:47<cesurasean>yeah, i think he needs read/write for owner and group...
21:47<nixeagle>HardwareFreak: not what I asked for ;)
21:47<nixeagle>pastebin would be great too
21:47<HardwareFreak>i know, gave that for backjground info
21:48<nixeagle>HardwareFreak: do the ls -l /tmp please
21:48<HardwareFreak>nixeagle: drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Jan 6 17:32 .
21:48<ml|>should have what I typed above
21:48<HardwareFreak>I already did 30 lines above
21:49<HardwareFreak>nixeagle: that's for the dir itself, not the files within
21:49<nixeagle>HardwareFreak: that is not what it should be
21:49<HardwareFreak>dunno if you can see that teensy dot
21:49<HardwareFreak>nixeagle: I've never changed it.
21:49<nixeagle>drwxr-xr-x <<< that has no write for non root
21:49<ml|>yeah you should change it to 1777 I wonder why /tmp has those permissions tho?
21:50*HardwareFreak wonders if he's been hacked
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21:50<nixeagle>HardwareFreak: also re the 30 lines up. If you don't keep pasting the same 3 lines shoving things up out of the buffer I might have seen it ;)
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21:51*HardwareFreak ducks in shame for doing what he knows he's not supposed to...
21:51<nixeagle>HardwareFreak: anyway fix the permissions
21:51<HardwareFreak>ok, so, 1777?
21:51*dvs gets the wrench
21:51<ml|>HardwareFreak: I take you don't run X on this box or you would have noticed the permissions problem sooner
21:51<HardwareFreak>dvs: I hope that's for repairing, not bludgeoning the stubborn
21:51<HardwareFreak>it's a headless server
21:52<dvs>HardwareFreak: that's not how you fix permissions?
21:52<HardwareFreak>Postfix, litghy, and recently (days ago) dovecot, and now (hopefully soon) Roundcube
21:52<ml|>yes 1777 for /tmp but you might have other issues man chmod is you are not sure
21:53<HardwareFreak>so am I doing a "make /tmp 1777" or am I using chmod or chgroup or something else?
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21:53<HardwareFreak>so "chmod 1777 ." ?
21:53<dvs>chmod 1777 /tmp
21:53<ml|> /tmp only!
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21:54<HardwareFreak>k, as if i was in /tmp is why i asked that way
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21:54<ml|>best to use full paths ;)
21:54<HardwareFreak>drwxrwxrwt 4 root root 4096 Jan 6 17:32 . <<-- that better?
21:55<abrotman>except we have no idea what "." is
21:55<HardwareFreak>k, let's try firing up lighty again and see if he'll actually run now
21:55<HardwareFreak>that's from ls -la /tmp
21:55<HardwareFreak>so "." is /tmp no?
21:56<nixeagle>HardwareFreak: yes, run the server
21:56<ml|>right, one issue down
21:56<nixeagle>abrotman was only confused because of the lack of context :)
21:56<ml|> '.' can mean source and other things that I don't know ;)
21:57*HardwareFreak jumps up and down (not really, but figuratively) with glee, for he's acquired the Roundcube login page!!
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21:57<HardwareFreak>Thanks for the expert assistance folks!
21:57<ml|>!congratulate HardwareFreak
21:57<abrotman>HardwareFreak: you sure tha tpackage was messed up still ?
21:57<dpkg>Yay HardwareFreak, you did it!
21:58<ml|>HardwareFreak: now you know what correct permissions for /tmp are ;)
21:58<HardwareFreak>abrotman: I dunno. You see, on a level 10 Debian expert scale, I'm like a 2-3, or a 7-8 on the Ubuntu expert scale. Thus, I have no f--king idea why the permission on /tmp were not what they should have been. Cause I never changed them. In fact, no apps I run on this box require /tmp, until now.
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21:59<simonrvn>many things use /tmp
21:59<smiley>I just joined.. whats the other issue you're having?
21:59<abrotman>wait .. there's an "ubuntu expert" scale ?
21:59<simonrvn>even on a server
21:59<HardwareFreak>abrotman: AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!! WAIT! check this out
21:59-!-fgh [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:59<ml|>those are defualt permissions for /tmp
21:59<simonrvn>abrotman: *shrug*
22:00*abrotman waits for the 'this'
22:00<simonrvn>HardwareFreak: there's even a /var/tmp ohnoez!
22:00<HardwareFreak>I recently migrated from a 40GB IDE disk to a new 500GB SATA disk, and used "cp -a" to copy everything over
22:00<ml|>so someone had to change them
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22:01<HardwareFreak>That's was a bit of a bitch wholly migrating from disk to disk using cp
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22:01<Mish->I want to use aptitude -F to find a list of packages that need installing in the same manner as "aptitude -s upgrade" does, (IE: unmet dependencies, etc are excluded), "aptitude -F %p search ~U" shows all packages available to be installed, but I want to do the same as "aptitude -s upgrade" and exclude those with unmet dependencies, any ideas?
22:01<HardwareFreak>but "cp -a" should have maintained permissions should it not?
22:01<ml|>I never had an issue with cp -a to new hard drive
22:02<HardwareFreak>you know what? Considering /tmp is a tmp folder, I probably just created it on the new drive, and I bet that's why the permissions were incorrect.
22:02<pipe>I have, but never with permissions :)
22:02<pipe>HardwareFreak: a very likely scenario
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22:02<ml|>yup problably what happened
22:02<nixeagle>bah, this is amusing. You can't install devscripts.el without also installing emacs22 or 23 (can't use -snapshot) because it recommends elserv which depends on emacs21 emacs22 and a few others, but not -snapshot. ^-^. Worth a bug report?
22:02<HardwareFreak>I migrated it all live. Directories at a time. Yep, that's gotta be it. It just did a "mkdir /tmp" on the new partition.
22:02<pipe>/tmp on this machine is completely in ram
22:03<nixeagle>pipe: oh neat
22:03<pipe>on another machine I have it's recreated on boot with a random cryptokey
22:03<pipe>so it's on disk, but when you reboot it's gone
22:03<ml|>HardwareFreak: best not to do it live
22:03*HardwareFreak has learned a valuable lesson tonight regarding permissions and system migration
22:04<ml|>rsync can be used instead also
22:04<HardwareFreak>ml|: I had to. It's my production MX
22:04<HardwareFreak>ml|: I got it all right but /tmp lol
22:05<ml|>now you know better :)
22:05<HardwareFreak>ml|: you gotta admit, for a level 2 (of 10) sysadmin, pulling off that disk-disk migration the way I did it is a feather in the cap, even in light of missing correct permissions on /tmp
22:06<pipe>no it's not
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22:07<ste>a tutti
22:07<HardwareFreak>ml|: And it took two kernel recompiles to get libata and sata_sil working correctly before I even started the migration. I only use custom kernels from source. All drivers built into the kernel, no modules, no initrd, skinny, tiny, sleek, fast 1.2MB kernels
22:07<ml|>glad it worked out for you, atleat mostly ;)
22:07<dvs>HardwareFreak: then again, Google is your friend. ;-). You could have probably found some more options for cp to avoid the pitfalls.
22:07-!-Guest1029 is now known as dcraig
22:07<pipe>HardwareFreak: why no initrd, is boot time critical for your production MX? :)
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22:08<HardwareFreak>ml|: if I'd not decided to give myself webmail once again, it may have been years before finding out /tmp had incorrect permissions lol
22:08<ml|>HardwareFreak: for prodution you should use stock debian kernel
22:08-!-freex [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:08<HardwareFreak>dvs: It wasn't the options I used for cp, it was the fact that I didn't use cp for /tmp
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22:09<ml|>HardwareFreak: heh
22:09<HardwareFreak>dvs: since it was an empty directory, i just created it new on the new partition, not realizing I needed to pay attention to permissions
22:09<dvs>HardwareFreak: ah, now I see.
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22:09<ml|>permissions are _very_ important
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22:10<pipe>papers please
22:10<pipe>you need permission
22:10<pipe>it's very important
22:10*HardwareFreak says WHOA, wtf?
22:11<abrotman>!tell HardwareFreak about permissions
22:11<HardwareFreak>Roundcube is showing a ton of deleted files in the root of my inbox, that don't show up in T-Bird. Besides that, I force deletion in my T-Bird config, so there shouldn't be anything in the trash folder etc
22:12<HardwareFreak>abrotman: thanks
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22:21<d35iboy> to add user with /var/www/user as home directory ?
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22:21<d35iboy>adduser -c 'FTP USER test' -m test -d /var/www/test ?
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22:34<benji_>Hi, does someone know any way to simulate windows volumes under linux?
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22:36<ste>ma ma qui parlate sl in inglese?
22:36<ste>nn cè nessun italiano?
22:37-!-mode/#debian [+l 347] by debhelper
22:37<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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22:38<ste>grazie dell'aiuto
22:39<pipe>benji_: what do you mean with a windows volume?
22:40-!-muammar [~muammar@] has quit [Quit: imagine a big red swirl here..!]
22:41<benji_>pipe : I mean C:
22:42<Mish->Once again... does anyone know why the command "aptitude -s -y upgrade" installs all packages without dependency issues, yet "aptitude -F %p search ~U" shows all packages? How can I get the "search" command to hide "dependency issues" and held back packages
22:42<pipe>benji_: Where would you want to use this "C:"?
22:42<pipe>benji_: Or do you mean that you want to mount a windows drive?
22:42<ml|>Mish-: trying to automate upgrades?
22:43<benji_>pipe : no I run an .exe using wine, it is missing a resource,say, C:\thing.txt
22:44<Mish->ml|: I've written an entire web suite for managing Debian servers, works well, but I'm trying to use aptitude search to find packages to install rather than scraping "aptitude -s -y upgrade", but the upgrade command lets me scrape the packages aptitude would install, yet "aptitude -F %p search ~U" doesn't seem to have a way to show that same list, it includes packages that upgrade doesn't.
22:44<pipe>benji_: your wine c-drive is in .wine/drive_c/
22:44<pipe>benji_: that's what your windows program will see as C: when you run it in wine
22:45<benji_>pipe : yeah this program actually want a Z: (dont ask me), so I thy to create a drive_z but no success
22:45<ml|>not all apps work well in wine
22:45<pipe>benji_: try 'winecfg' if you haven't already
22:45<pipe>You can create per-program device mappings IIRC
22:46<pipe>But if it demands Z:, then it might be something crazy anyway
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22:48<pipe>So hm
22:48<pipe>Did someone do a like-wine-but-for-osx-applications yet? :)
22:49<abrotman>pipe: to do what exactly ?
22:49<ml|>Mish-: man aptitude and read -F that might help you get the output you want; but automating upgrades is a bad idea
22:49<pipe>abrotman: to run osx applications in linux, just like wine does for windows programs
22:49<dpkg>Mac-On-Linux, an open-source virtual machine for PowerPC systems. It can run PowerPC operating systems (Mac OS, Mac OS X, GNU/Linux) natively. Packaged for Debian as 'mol' (emulator), 'mol-modules-*' / 'mol-modules-source' (kernel module/sources) and 'mol-drivers-{macos,macosx,linux}' (OS drivers). See if using bundled OSX. #mol on
22:50<abrotman>oh, not quite i guess
22:50<pipe>emulation is so 90ies
22:50<Mish->ml|: It's a WSUS (Windows Update) clone, you select the available updates per server and approve them.
22:51<pipe>I have that
22:51<pipe>in ubuntu :)
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22:53<ml|>Mish-: ok, I was just saying incase that's what you where trying to do; there must something like that already, so you can look at and get some ideas
22:53<pipe>Mish-: I'm not very well versed in apt, but have you thought about getting the list with something like "apt-get upgrade -s", for "simulate"?
22:54<ml|>pipe: read up ;)
22:54<pipe>too much work
22:54<ml|>no answer for you then
22:54<pipe>Maybe I'm reading IRC with a braille-terminal so I can only see one line at a time!
22:55<pipe>Oh ok, sorry
22:55<pipe>now I read.
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22:56<pipe>Mish-: Next question then. What's wrong with the list you get from the first aptitude, can't you use that list and filter somehow?
22:58<Mish->pipe: I can filter the list I can from "aptitude upgrade" it's just messy as it's not formatted well.
22:58<pipe>enter: perl!
22:58<pipe>but yeah
22:59<ml|>perl the cure for all ;)
22:59<pipe>of course there is an xkcd comic for this
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23:07<pipe>oh no, a goth
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23:09<pipe>Learning perl regexps is one of the most useful things I've learnt, I think
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23:09<ml|>babilen: hehe
23:14<babilen>Mish-: which language do you write your WSUS clone in?
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23:15<l3x>my screen saver only shows up on root login.
23:15<pipe>screen savers must be the most retarded invention ever
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23:16<pipe>if you really care about "saving" the screen you turn it all black, eventually turn it off
23:16<pipe>saving everyones CPU time, power, pixels etc
23:16<babilen>l3x: try #kde@freenode - looks as is there are not that many KDE users in here
23:16<babilen>l3x: Can you run something like xscreensaver, xlock, slock?
23:17<ml|>screensavers where useful with old tech, now it's a waste of resources
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23:17<babilen>l3x: Which program starts the screesaver? What happens if you start it from the command line?
23:17<pipe>ml|: not even then, a black screen is still less damaging..
23:18<l3x>babilen, i don't use ne
23:18<ml|>pipe: of course but you know what I mean ;)
23:18<babilen>l3x: what's 'ne' ?
23:18<babilen>judd: versions kde
23:18<judd>babilen: kde -- etch: 5:47 lenny: 5:48 sid: 5:48
23:18<pipe>with a typo
23:19<l3x>babilen, i don't use xscreen, xlock or slock
23:19<babilen>pipe: *sigh* getting tired ... you are right of course and my autocorrect is broken
23:20<pipe>You need to install a new neural network, I got one from cyberdyne systems inc.
23:20<babilen>l3x: And i can ask you again: How did you install these screensavers?
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23:20<l3x>it came with kde
23:20<ml|>didn't we go through this a while back?
23:20<babilen>pipe: Yeah - I am waiting for the new street samurai catalogue to arrive ...
23:21<babilen>yes, we did ..
23:21<pipe>ml|: yeah, yesterday
23:21<l3x>they only work with root
23:21<babilen>l3x: what happens if you run them with your normal user?
23:22<ml|>l3x: tried asking in #debian-kde
23:22<l3x>babilen, i get a black screen
23:23<l3x>babilen, i did and he tolde me to modify that file
23:23<babilen>but actually i absolutely no experience with kde and it might be a better idea to ask in a specialised place like #kde@freenode or #debian-kde
23:23<pipe>Doens't necessarily sound like a debian specific issue
23:23<ml|>people that use screensavers
23:23<pipe>so generic kde support might help
23:24<pipe>I'm a bit tempted to switch my lazy-everyday-desktop from gnome to kde
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23:25<ml|>from lazy to lazy?
23:25<ml|>heh ;)
23:25<pipe>reason being the gnome developers increasingly hot love for microsofts secretly patented technologies
23:26<babilen>pipe: bullshit
23:26<pipe>what is
23:26<ml|>points to #debian-offtopic ;)
23:27<babilen>"hot love for microsofts secretly patented technologies" - but let's not turn this into a rant against miguel de icaza now ..
23:27<pipe>ml|: it's too far away :(
23:27<ml|>pipe: don't want to read up now /j is too much, heh
23:29<babilen>l3x: could you try: "dcop kdesktop KScreensaverIface lock"
23:30<babilen>l3x: does the issue occur with all screensavers? can you see the previews of them?
23:31<babilen>hmm... gone
23:31<babilen>g'night everybody!
23:31<ml|>good night
23:32<ml|>and what does this mean ... < l3x> babilen, i did and he tolde me to modify that file
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23:32<pipe>hm, azatoth and swedish
23:33<l3x>ml|, the file i configed
23:33<babilen>l3x: I think that means he asked in #debian-kde and he (unknown person in #debian-kde) told him to modify kdesktoprc. the result of that modification was pasted by l3x later
23:33<pipe>babilen: good night ;)
23:33<babilen>all speculation though ...
23:33<babilen>good night ..
23:33<babilen>l3x: good luck
23:33<l3x>babilen, thanx bro
23:34<babilen>l3x: does the dcop line above work?
23:34<ml|>l3x: better to ask in a more kde related channel like suggested above and explain what you have done thus far
23:35<ml|>and good luck
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23:37<ml|>but screensavers should just work, tho there was a bug once in testing with gnome-screensaver
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---Logclosed Thu Jan 07 00:00:17 2010