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#debian IRC Logs for 2010-07-28

---Logopened Wed Jul 28 00:00:01 2010
---Daychanged Wed Jul 28 2010
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00:00<craigevil>you might need the firmware, firmware-linux-nonfree
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00:00<twb>In aptitude's GUI, I there's a huuuuuuge empty space between the package names and the current/new version numbers, and the version numbers are truncated.
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00:01<bja>craigevil: could not read you, he allready left
00:01<gsimmons>craigevil: Userspace firmware wasn't used by (Debian's) e100 driver until 2.6.29 anyway.
00:01<twb>Is there an easy way to say "let the version numbers have enough room to fit, but no more" ?
00:01<craigevil>bja: nope i have join/parts hidden :P
00:02<twb>craigevil: rcirc is smart enough to show only the ones of people that were talking recently :-)
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00:04<bja>How much memory should i expect a dhcpd use for serving a 20 machine network?
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00:07<n0>do I have to do anything special to get apt to use the sha256 sums in the release file?
00:08<n0> (sha256's at the bottom)
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00:11<skavorodker>bja: 00:02.0 Ethernet controller [0200]:Intel Corporation 82557/8/9/0/1 Ethernet Pro 100 [8086:1229] (rev 08)
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00:12<skavorodker>hm, nice.
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00:19<skavorodker>Hello everybody! I've got a problem when installing debian 5.0 on compaq proliant ml370 g2 - it does not identify the network adapter.
00:19<skavorodker>according to lspci i have 00:02.0 Ethernet controller [0200]:Intel Corporation 82557/8/9/0/1 Ethernet Pro 100 [8086:1229] (rev 08)
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00:20<skavorodker>but the e100 module simply does not work.
00:20<skavorodker>i would be very pleased if i could get some help :)
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00:35<astronut>about how long would it take to do a rebuild for a failed disk on a 4x320GB raid5? anyone know from experience?
00:35<sasha>hello, I just installed debian without any window manager or DE, and dhclient does nothing so I cannot connect to the internet, anyone had this problem?
00:36<astronut>sasha: what kind of connection to the internet do you have?
00:36<sasha>both eth and wlan
00:36<sasha>none work
00:36<astronut>ok, lets try eth, it's easier
00:36<astronut>it's plugged into a network, correct?
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00:37<sasha>the cable goes from the computer to the router
00:37<astronut>do you have a link-light?
00:37<x90>how goes it
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00:37<sasha>astronut, no
00:37<astronut>sasha: well, that's probably why dhclient failed
00:38<sasha>astronut, sorry, I do have one
00:38<astronut>type ifconfig eth0, what does it show?
00:38<x90>maybe your chord is broke
00:38<astronut>(don't paste multilines in here)
00:38<x90>have you tried it with another machine or a second chord
00:38<astronut>x90: it probably just needs tuning
00:38<astronut>x90: (a chord is a set of musical notes. a cord is a cable)
00:39<n0>thank you
00:39<sasha>I'm dual booting and it workes fine with the other OS
00:39<n0>hrm i wonder if the nic is supported?
00:39<n0>but yeah what'sifconfig eth0 say
00:39<astronut>sasha: depending on the default /etc/network/interfaces, you may have to type "ifconfig eth0 up" before dhclient
00:39<x90>does lspci have it there
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00:40<astronut>n0: i haven't run into a common consumer NIC not supported by a modern linux kernel in quite a long time
00:40<sasha>I did that, and the interface apparently was up, but when running dhclient, nothing happens, just goes back to the promt
00:40<n0>astronut: heh true, these are different times
00:40<sasha>astronut, it's like dhclient runs but returns nothing
00:40<astronut>sasha: does it say "timeout no server found" or "bound to 192.168.1.x"?
00:40<astronut>n0: tulip ftw
00:41<n0>can you set the nic manually?
00:41<x90>try running it again
00:41<x90>and then
00:41<n0>ha i was going to say dec
00:41<x90>echo $?
00:41<x90>is it 0
00:41<x90>this will tell you if it exited with error code
00:41<sasha>astronug, nope, does nothing and does not return any msgs
00:41<x90>are you root
00:41<x90>when it doesnt return anything
00:41<x90>type echo $?
00:42<x90>when a program exits
00:42<sasha>I'm dual booting, so I have to write this down
00:42<x90>it returns the exit code to $?
00:43<x90>if it is 0, it was successfull
00:43<x90>if it was another number
00:43<x90>it means it did not
00:43<n0>oi sasha if you're in windows right click on the ptys and keep in mind what kind of nic it is
00:43<x90>and you can look up the error return number on the internet for dhcpclient
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00:44<x90>another thing, do the lights blink, lol
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00:44<n0>yeah he said he had lights
00:44<sasha>n0 Im sure the nic is supported, it will not work with this installation only, it was working just fine with the previous one
00:44<x90>hate jumping in on middle
00:44<astronut>do you have firewire on that board?
00:44<astronut>i had a few installs which thought the firewire networking device was eth0 and the ethernet was eth1
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00:44<astronut>so something to keep in mind
00:45<astronut>dmesg is your firne
00:45<sasha>astronut no, but will check on it anyways
00:45<n0>huh. actually lately with my pcmcia cards, they've b een renamed to eth1
00:45<astronut>if you look at dmesg output when you plug and unplug the cord, it should make some noise about link becoming ready that will show you what device that is
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00:46<sasha>I'm gonna boot that install brb
00:46<astronut>n0: if you have had something as a previous ethN and plug in a new card, it'll make it ethN+1 based on mac address
00:46<astronut>and it keeps a running log
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00:47<n0>say so why are there 3 types of checksums in a Releases file? is there a way to make sure only sha256 is used?
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00:48<astronut>n0: older software still uses the old type?
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00:49<astronut>for example, if you're using foo, you change to bar, the old tools still use foo, so you have to have foo and bar until the version using bar makes it to oldstable
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00:49<n0>i guess i assumed that the only thing using that file is apt-get update and that apt-get itself would be updated in a nirmal upgrade
00:50<n0>oh i see but people could of course, pin apt-get.
00:50<n0>hrm i should would love to know that new apt-get uses sha256
00:51<astronut>n0: look through the libapt changelog would be my guess
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00:52<n0>astronut: this?
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00:56<n0>ah i think this?
00:57<n0>or am i totally off here
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00:57<astronut> * merged apt--sha256 branch to fully support the new
00:57<astronut> sha256 checksums in the Packages and Release files
00:57<astronut> (ABI break)
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00:58<n0>sweet, i guess that means... it's sha256 by default?
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01:04<sangi>I am using debian squeeze,do we unicode-5.1 for fonts
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01:04<sasha>ok, here's a pastebin of dmesg and dhclient eth echo $:
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01:05<sangi>does ttf fonts in squeeze support unicode-5.1
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01:06<astronut>echo $? should be another command
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01:06<astronut>not part of the earlier line
01:07<sasha>astronut XD, ok, gotta try again
01:07<x90>sorry about that
01:08<x90>echo $?
01:08<x90>2 commands
01:08<sasha>got it, be back in a few mins then...
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01:09<n0>sorry if this a dumb question but where are the .deb files that one downloads that are to be installed actually coming from? it looks like the repo just has the packages and releases files
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01:12<jm_>n0: pool
01:12<dpkg>methinks pool is (proposal) and
01:13<jm_>you're just looking in the wrong dir
01:13<jm_>"pool" is actually a dir name
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01:15<sasha>I'm back
01:16<sasha>it returned: 0
01:16<sasha>and that is it
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01:22<astronut>sasha: and you're sure it didn't just silently give you a lease?
01:23<sasha>astronut, I tried to start lynx and gave back a connection error, cannot apt-get update either, maybe something went wrong with the install?
01:26<n0>does it work if you manually ifconfig eth0 ... netmask ... && route add default gw ...
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01:26<n0>cos if that works then we know it's something in dhcpd.conf
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01:26<astronut>sasha: the output of ifconfig would be extremely helpful
01:27<Rat409>and probly cat /etc/resolv.conf
01:27<sasha>astronut. just "ifconfig"?
01:28<astronut>while you're at it, route -n
01:28<n0>maybe ifconfig -a (?)
01:28<sasha>lemme write this down, ok, brb
01:29<n0>ugh make me wanna cry. "how to open a .deb, you must sudo dpkg." srsly. ar vx will work
01:29<jm_>dhcpd also logs stuff such as lease requested etc.
01:29<jm_>or mc
01:29<n0>no sudo needed
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01:33<n0>jm_: what's this directory for? (the installer-*) dirs in general? that only used when you have an installer *and* have net plugged in?
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01:34<jm_>n0: debian installer files (ISO images, other images etc.)
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01:36<n0>ah so basically unused by a production system
01:36<@Ganneff>jm_: no iso images
01:37<@Ganneff>n0: yes
01:38<jm_>Ganneff: ohh just kernel and initrd, right (cd mirrors carry that)
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01:42<sasha>I'm back
01:42<sasha>here's the pastebin:
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01:43<astronut>ya, after dhclient, it's working fine
01:43<astronut>you have a local ip address and a route to the internet
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01:44<astronut>you had a valid network connection
01:44<sasha>astronut, so you think it's leasing, just not telling me it is?
01:44<astronut>it absolutely is
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01:44<n0>right there bro: inet addr: Bcast: Mask:
01:45<astronut>you got, gateway to, you got your dns servers from the router
01:45<n0>you should be able to ping on a normal unscrubbed net
01:45<astronut>and ping to get out
01:46<sasha>astronut, but the browser was unable to connect the first time I tried, ok, well, lemme make sure
01:46<astronut>if you can ping but can't resolve dns, delete the lines in /etc/resolv.conf that say #
01:46<astronut>domain private
01:46<astronut>search private
01:46<sasha>will do
01:46<sasha>thank you guys for all your help
01:46<n0>well i mean if he's putting in the url say it should ignore the search
01:46<astronut>but ya, you have a valid lease
01:47<n0>heh that looks like a linksys default (address > 100) starting at 101
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01:50<n0>does Release.gpg get stored anywhere locally when you apt-get update?
01:50<n0>or Releases for that matter
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01:55<astronut>i would think /var/cache/apt/...
01:55<n0>yeah but just the *pkgcache.bin files are there and the archives/
01:56<n0>hrm ran a find . / on my system, nothing matching Releases.gpg
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01:58<jm_>check /var/lib/apt/lists
01:58<jm_>it's named <mirror>.foo
01:59<sasha>I'm back, turns out I was getting a lease, the reason why the browser did not work was because eth0 was down as a default
01:59<n0>ah sweet found it, thanks jm_
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02:00<sasha>so I have to start the interfase at every boot
02:00<sasha>but problem solved, so thanks again
02:00<jm_>sasha: what do you have in /etc/network/interfaces for it?
02:01<n0>i have this in mine: auto eth0
02:01<n0>iface eth0 inet dhcp
02:01<jm_>that's enough to bring it up automatically
02:01<sasha>jm_ nothing, just lo is there
02:02<n0>yeah there you go
02:02<n0>oh HA! i bet i know what up
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02:02<n0>you only installed cmd lineonly right, no gui?
02:02<jm_>sasha: see above
02:02<sasha>right, no gui
02:02<n0>so i have a machine with only auto lo in interfaces file, because it uses avahi-daemon to get the leases.
02:03<n0>i bet avahi daemon is dependent on the gui.
02:03<sasha>jm_ add that line?
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02:03<jm_>sasha: two lines!
02:03<sasha>got it
02:03<n0>yeah add those 2 lines
02:03<jm_>auto eth0
02:03<jm_>that's the first one
02:03<astronut>if you do a base install *AND CONFIGURE THE NETWORK DURING THE INSTALL PROCESS* it'll do auto-up
02:03<n0>actually he probably wants wlan0 on there too, no?
02:04<astronut>but if you skip the bold step it won't matter
02:05<sasha>I see, I'll add wlan also then
02:05<sasha>glad that headache is gone
02:06<astronut>sasha: if you're installing gui, don't bother, network-manager will ignore /e/n/i
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02:07<sasha>ok, I'm really tired, gonna bail now, bye you guys
02:08<n0>bah, gui :-P
02:08<DasUberJohan>ok for some reason i just tried to get up to squeeze since the last time i was using it, it was just well it kinda went poof. And now for some reason my wireless card just randomly fails out for no reason. I installed the drivers as per the instructions on the wiki. Is there anything i can do to try to give some more information to help someone with this issue. Right now it just seems to completely fail out. I try to ping -c 2 fo
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02:09<jm_>your message was cut off at " fo"
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02:09<DasUberJohan>hmm i didn't know there was text character limits on irc. well it just said "for exmaple and host is unavailble."
02:10<DasUberJohan>then i can reconnect(randomly) and it'll work for a few moments and then go out again.
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02:12<jm_>did you check if there's anything useful in dmesg?
02:13<dpkg>it has been said that dmesg is print or control the kernel ring buffer. /var/log/dmesg gives you the whole thing from boot time. `dmesg' shows you current ring buffer contents.
02:14<astronut>someone who knows how to control dpkg, insert the words "message log" between kernel and ring
02:14<DasUberJohan>hmm... i'll go back over there and try to somehow get it over here. But since ntfs is read only i'm going to have to find my usb. Be back in a few i guess.
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02:15<gsimmons>astronut: Uh, "kernel message log ring buffer"?
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02:15<astronut>a ring buffer contianing the message log
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02:16<n0>ok this is a neat trick: openssl sha -sha256 -binary /home/me/foo.file | openssl enc -e -a //gives you a 45 char hash instead of a 74 char one.
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02:18<astronut>n0: so you're just representing the data in base64 instead of base16? you should be able to get to a 74/4 bytes if you do it properly
02:18<astronut>char i mean'
02:19<chamy>any one can help to rectify following error
02:19<n0>yeah, i tend to write these down on paper which is why the char reduction is nice for me
02:19<chamy>/opt/ ERROR: cannot dump Type 'com/sun/star/beans/PropertyState'
02:19<astronut>n0: i think there's a better way to do 16->64 than encrypting it with a semetrical cipher
02:20<astronut>sounds like you have openoffice installed from somewhere other than the official debian packages
02:21<n0>so a sha256 gives a 256 binary number yeh? which i guess can be expressed by making every 4 bits a hex number
02:21<@Ganneff>chamy: install openoffice using a debian package from our mirrors. or ask those you got this version from for help. we cant support non-debian provided setups
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02:23<astronut>ok, i think i need to find more oppurtunities to use unicode smilieys - "U+1F625 DISAPOINTED BUT RELIEVED FACE" seems like it'd be very useful
02:23<n0>that bomb one is pretty funny
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02:26<chamy>Ganneff:can u give the links
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02:27<astronut>chamy: uninstall what you have then apt-get install
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02:33<DasUberJohan>i was able to hold a connection long enough to make a draft of the file since it's not wanting to read from any external devices. And here's the link to the dmesg file which was updated just moments before i uploaded it.
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03:45<Rushishealin>Could someone answer a quick question for me please?
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03:46<twb>!tell Rushishealin about ask
03:47<Rushishealin>I am running a variation of Ubuntu and I want to put my 2nd Linux on my other partition but its way to big to put on any CD's I have and I know theres a way to get it installed without having to run out and get a DVD-R/DVD-RW
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03:47<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, netinst is a small CD image with which you can install Debian. If, during the installation process you have a working Internet connection, you can install more packages straight away, otherwise, you will have a base install and more packages later. See See also <check iso image>, <dialup install>, <usb install>, <installer>.
03:48<weasel>.. very helpful
03:48<dpkg>i guess netboot is a Debian installation method involving the use of TFTP and DHCP (or BOOTP, RARP) servers, to provide installation media to clients on a local network. Not recommended for novice users, ask me about <netinst> instead. See also <install guide>, <netboot miniiso>, <installer firmware>, <open firmware>.
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03:48<weasel>also, you might be able to boot and install from usb.
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03:49<Rushishealin>I tried booting from an Exsternal HD but its no good
03:49<twb>You could even do a "from unix" install, though that's a major pain and not for newbies
03:49<weasel>twb: I think it's actually less painful than d-i, but then I've done it a couple of times :)
03:50<twb>It's a fucking nightmare to remember how to get e.g. the bootloader and /etc/hosts and RAID into the ramdisk and all that
03:50<twb>There are about eight files that you need to boot but base-files doesn't create them -- d-i does
03:51<weasel>you don't need etc/hosts to boot. it's nice to have tho
03:51<weasel>but you quickly notice when it's missing anyway
03:51<Rushishealin>Isn't there a way to do it through Grub since I have moved the .ISO file onto this HD?
03:51<twb>Rushishealin: yes
03:51<Rushishealin>How would I go about doing that?
03:51<Rushishealin>Or is that a "pain" too? lol
03:51<twb>bootstrap the hd-media kernel and ramdisk directly from grub
03:52<twb>The .iso needs to be in the root directory of the filesystem it's on
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03:53<Rushishealin>If I told you I was somewhat lost in what you just said would you laugh @ me? -_-
03:53<twb>I laugh at people on my own terms.
03:53<twb>You can't stop me.
03:54<jm_>but you'll need grub 2 which can loop mount images
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03:55*twb blinks
03:55<Rushishealin>is there a terminal command for that
03:55<Rushishealin>or do I need to go find it on yahoo?
03:55<jm_>there was a blog post on debian planet about this IIRC
03:55<twb>jm_: only if you're expecting to boot the kernel that's *in* the iso
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03:55<jm_>twb: yup, isn't that what he's trying to do?
03:55<twb>Sod that; just download the kernel and ramdisk separately and use the .iso only for it's pool/ cache
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03:58<twb>grub is too damn clever IMO
04:00<Rushishealin>k got it downloaded.
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04:03<twb>Rushishealin: now make grub boot it
04:03<Rushishealin>How do I do that? im still looking to where my Grub is.
04:04<twb>Try moving the files to /boot/initrd.img-0 and /boot/vmlinuz-0
04:04<twb>Then running "sudo update-grub"
04:04<twb>That's just a guess
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04:04<twb>You could also just edit grub's menu.lst/grub.cfg by hand
04:05<jm_>or use its command line to do it
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04:09<Rushishealin>so extract the .ISO and move files into specific folders in GRUB?
04:09<jm_>no that's why you used wget so you don't need to do this
04:09<jm_>you need to put those where twb said, but be careful to use new names
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04:11<Rushishealin>there is only Grub-1.98 > boot > i386/Sparc64 > nothing in either folders.
04:11<dpkg>folder is a directory damn it! near My Computer and Network Neighborhood... or the things you put in a filing cabinet. IMAP protocol's mailboxes.
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04:11<twb>Yeah, that's why I didn't use "sudo wget -P/boot" :-)
04:12<Rushishealin>so create new folders with what you said and place the files in there?
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04:12<jm_>the target location is /boot
04:12<twb>It is AWESOME that jfbterm + unifont still Just Works
04:12<jm_>no, it needs to be in /boot otherwise udpte-grub won't pick it up
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04:13<twb>Whereas "xinit /usr/bin/ssh -NX appserv x-www-browser" utterly failed to display half the Chinese characters, even though I had installed all the Chinese fonts I could find.
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04:16<Rushishealin>im assuming when I do sudo update-grub and it shoots back "Searching for Splash Image" None. I have done it wrong >.>
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04:21<Rushishealin>Rebooting. brb~
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04:51<kili>does anyone know how it is possible to print comments from a pdf file
04:52<twb>What do you mean "comments"?
04:52<kili>i have a pdf with a lot of comments, and i want to print the pdf with the comments
04:52<twb>I don't know what a "PDF comment" is.
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04:53<kili>normally its not possible to change the content of a pdf
04:53<themill>kili: Adobe's acroread can do that -- it's packaged for debian on /msg dpkg dmm
04:53<kili>themill: it cant
04:54<kili>it prints only the marker where the comment is, but not the comment self ...
04:54<kili>twb: so lot of programm have a function to add text to a pdf as a comment
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04:55<twb>You should probably talk to the poppler people about that
04:55<cahoot>kili: pdftk doesn't help either?
04:55<themill>poppler doesn't yet have this capability. It barely has the capability to view the comments
04:56<twb>themill: OK, thanks
04:56<kili>cahoot: dont know i should take a look there
04:56<themill>twb: not much does, unfortunately. Even adobe's own interface to this is sucky
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04:59<themill>kili: hmmm... acroread 8 certainly could do that (and I've done it a number of times) but I can't find that functionality in acroread 9 anywhere. :(
04:59<kili>have not so much time, i will print with windows -.-
04:59<kili>thanks themill
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05:08<kili>omg also with windows and acrobat its not possible ... -.-
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05:11<cahoot>kili: this doesn't do it?
05:12<kili>cahoot: i have only the free reader
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05:12<kili>not the acrobat
05:12<kili>Print Comments (Adobe Acrobat only, not Adobe Reader)
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05:50<Sleepwalker_dima>I'm so noob I'm serching help for scsi controller
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05:51<petemc_>Sleepwalker_dima: ask a real question
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05:52<Sleepwalker_dima>I've got a IBM server It have a scsi controller I dont know what sort of driver i need
05:53<petemc_>does it not just work?
05:53<Sleepwalker_dima>It stop at installation
05:53<petemc_>google for the exact model of server + debian
05:53<Sleepwalker_dima>On the hardware detect
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05:54<jm_>or use lspci
05:54<Sleepwalker_dima>I retry
05:55-!-k-man [] has joined #debian
05:55<Sleepwalker_dima>Can i link on this channel?
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05:56<petemc_>you cant paste here, no
05:56<petemc_>well, 4 lines would get you kicked, one or two would be ok
05:56<petemc_>use a pastebin
05:57<Sleepwalker_dima> this is the server i'm reading, it work on redhat and suse
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05:58<superguy>hey everyone
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05:58<superguy>anyone can help here?
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05:59<Mithos>depends what with superguy
05:59<superguy>with backtrack softwares
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05:59<Sleepwalker_dima>I delete that distribution 2 minuts ago
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06:00<superguy>i downloaded yahoo messenger but cant log in becuse proxy thing
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06:01<superguy>you there?
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06:03<Sleepwalker_dima>I cant configure a proxy
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06:03<superguy>u trying to connect to yahoo?
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06:04<dpkg>BackTrack is not Debian and is not supported in #debian (ask me about <based on debian>). Try or #backtrack-linux on instead. BackTrack is a Linux distribution based on <Ubuntu> Intrepid (as of BackTrack 4), previously <SLAX>. Derived from merging two penetration-testing distributions: WHAX (formerly WHOPPIX) and Auditor Security Linux.
06:04<jm_>superguy ^^^^^
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06:04<superguy>whats debian anyway
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06:05<heyson-alice>hello, is debian a good system for stable linux servers?
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06:05<Kamzor>second place in popularity
06:06<heyson-alice>what's on the first place?
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06:11<Kamzor>I mean LINUX
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06:45<letterj>Is there a straightforward beginner's guide to building debian packages?
06:46-!-Celelibi_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:47<dpkg>The New Maintainer's Guide (, Developer's Reference and Policy document how packages should be made and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <policy>, <best practices> or see ,
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06:51<letterj>thanks for the info
06:51<linux36>who often use vm?
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06:52<linux36>i have a problem
06:52<babilen>letterj: no problem - Check #debian-mentors for packaging help as well.
06:52<babilen>linux36: It is solved now unless you prove otherwise :)
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06:54<babilen>linux36: What is the problem?
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06:55<linux36>VM and the host can PING each other through ,but the VM can't access the network
06:55<linux36>who can help me ?
06:56<Texou>linux36: what's VM's soft?
06:57<Texou>linux36: with virtualbox? kvm? qemu?
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06:58<linux36>VMware workstation
06:58<letterj>I'm working with a package someone else kind of hacked up for a python program and they moved stuff from the rules file to a .install file now it won't install the source.
06:59<Texou>linux36: hmmm and can the VM go on the Web?
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06:59<letterj>I spent all day yesterday searching for answers. It's been a very frustrating experience.
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07:00<linux36>it can PING host
07:00<Texou>linux36: what kind of network?
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07:00<linux36>and the host can PING it ok
07:01<Texou>linux36: NAT? bridged?
07:02<Texou>linux36: maybe a router problem, or iptables, or a misconfig of the service you try connecting to
07:02<linux36>and it can PING any local area network
07:02<chamy>any one working on kde and gnome desktop interoperability related projects
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07:03<Lantizia>Can anyone help confirm a bug with dovecot for me?
07:03<Texou>linux36: did you enable iptables?
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07:03<linux36>no problem
07:03<linux36>it is ok ,too
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07:04<linux36>the host is XP
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07:06<Texou>linux36: ah ok and you try to connect to linux VM?
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07:09<Texou>linux36: see the service config on VM
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08:05<disposable>does anybody know of an isp control panel which doesn't need postfix/bind/mysql installed locally?
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08:11<hever>Hello I understand the cons of large block sizes but what are the pros ? Faster read because fewer addressing is needed ?
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08:18<hever>And whats the best practise to choose a good block size? I'm going to use ext4 on a fileserver that servers mostly >2GB (and in much cases much more). Min sizes are aroung perhaps 3-5MB. So is the performance much higher using a very high block size for example like 1 MB? (Besides from problems with smaller files, that should not occour)?
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08:25<twb>hever: yes; or XFS, which was designed with large files in mind
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08:26<twb>As in all cases, if you REALLY care about performance of your application, you should profile *that application* against different filesystems, rather than relying on ancedotal evidence
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08:27<hever>twb, yes I know but I'm currently not going to spend that much time.... so I'm asking for "rules of the thumb" / best pratises.
08:27<twb>In partman, there's three "profile" choices for ext -- default, news (small files) and large files.
08:27<hever>twb, is the performance increase real world or just a measurement....
08:27<twb>I'd just do a normal install except to pick "large files" profile
08:28<hever>hmm... do you know what blocksize large files uses ?
08:28<twb>No, sorry
08:28<twb>it's a safe bet it'll be a multiple of 4k
08:30<hever>hmm.. as I think of it 4k is really few... Perhaps I'll do a small benchmark
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08:33<twb>4k is probably the default
08:34<jm_>4k is max anyway
08:34<hever>then I need not to think about it ;) really ?
08:36<babilen>hever: Or consider using XFS (as already mentioned) - there might be other filesystems that are worth a look as well
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08:36<hever>I read some benchmarks, but most did not cover large files...
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08:37<jm_>ext4 has extents which improve stuff
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08:46<hever>jm_, very interesting, afaik this works automatically, correct?
08:47<hever>or as far as I understand id ;)
08:48<jm_>hever: not sure what happens if one creates a new ext4 fs, but yes, mke2fs.conf says it's the default for ext4
08:48<hever>whow, thats a really good feature.... thank you for the hint
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08:51<Mithos>can anyone tell me a way of downloading everything in a particular directory online e.g. every file in
08:51<Mithos>can wget do it?
08:52<Mithos>what is the syntax please?
08:52<Mithos>as it failed when i tried
08:52<petemc>wget -r -np -nH
08:52<petemc>something like that
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08:53<petemc>oh, need -R
08:53*Mithos bangs head on desk
08:53<Mithos>just remembered have a man page :P
08:53<Mithos>I've been using windows for too long :P
08:53<petemc>you dont need -R
08:54<petemc>what i said first should work
08:54<petemc>you can use-cur-dirs option to prevent it creating folder structure
08:54<Mithos>thanks - I want the folder structure as well :)
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08:56<Mithos>thanks - works perfectly :)
08:56<jm_>I use lftp instead
08:57<jm_>lftp supports http and other protocols ...
08:57<twb>Fair enough.
08:58<twb>Mithos: bear in mind that HTTP (without DAV) doesn't support directory listings, so any method that doesn't use DAV or SFTP or similar will be at best a close approximation
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09:03<petemc>twb: that may be true in theory, in practise the command i suggested works perfectly
09:04<Mithos>twb: huh? that went straight over my head :P still, I have my files now :)
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09:50<youknowwho>hi, how can I list all the packages installed? Thanks.
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09:50<petemc>dpkg -l
09:50<dpkg>petemc: bugger all, i dunno
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09:52<youknowwho>thanks petemc
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09:54<djjazda>i need help i cant run any files with ./ in a folder even though i can see them and i got the rights
09:55<petemc>djjazda: they're exectutable? the partition isnt mounted noexec?
09:55<djjazda>in other folders it works fine
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09:55<djjazda>i got only 1 partition and they are executables
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09:56<petemc>djjazda: what kind of files are they?
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09:56<djjazda>when i type ./*tab* it does even auto fill in the filename
09:56<djjazda>well game server start files
09:57<djjazda>but i also had the same prob with a shoutcast server
09:57<djjazda>couldnt run it either
09:57<djjazda>same error
09:57<djjazda>while other things work fine
09:57<djjazda>tryed as a user and as root
09:57<djjazda>tryed moving the files
09:58<djjazda>also tryed to give the full path
09:58<djjazda>and i am 100% sure that the files themselfe are just fine
09:58<themill>can you pastebin the output of "mount"
09:59<djjazda> /dev/vzfs on / type reiserfs (rw,usrquota,grpquota) proc on /proc type proc (rw) sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw) tmpfs on /lib/init/rw type tmpfs (rw,nosuid) tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev) devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,nosuid,noexec) binfmt_misc on /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc type binfmt_misc (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev)
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10:00<djjazda>sry for the paste here ^^
10:00<djjazda>kinda tired xD
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10:06<djjazda>so is there a prob with it?
10:07<petemc>pastebin ls -la on the dir the files are in, and the output of you trying to run them
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10:10<petemc>djjazda: what does "file" say? you could also try "bash"
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10:10*themill as about to ask the same thing
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10:12<djjazda> ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.2.5, stripped
10:12<djjazda>seems to be executable lol
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10:13<djjazda>and i know its not the files since its the 2nd thing that doesnt wanna run
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10:16<djjazda>i am lost !!!
10:17<hever>Exists a debian CD image that opens a shell and let me remote install a new system ?
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10:18<dpkg>hmm... netboot is a Debian installation method involving the use of TFTP and DHCP (or BOOTP, RARP) servers, to provide installation media to clients on a local network. Not recommended for novice users, ask me about <netinst> instead. See also <install guide>, <netboot miniiso>, <installer firmware>, <open firmware>.
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10:20<djjazda>any solution for my prob guys?
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10:21<na5uta-work>djjazda, which probs?
10:21<babilen>djjazda: Could you run "strace ./" -- anything new?
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10:22<djjazda>command not found
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10:23<djjazda>but its not only pb
10:23<djjazda>cant run any files in that directory
10:23<djjazda>says file not found
10:23<djjazda>same with a shoutcast server
10:24<na5uta-work>sorry, not in use for me
10:24<djjazda>well its not about the pb
10:24<djjazda>its about executing the file itselfe
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10:26<owenh>Hi, I have something weird going on with a Debian server/router. DHCPOFFERs from dnsmasq never seem to make it out the interface.
10:27<owenh>I have disabled the firewall, all policies=ACCEPT
10:27<owenh>dnsmasq logs DHCPOFFERs
10:27<owenh>I have disabled traffic shaping
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10:28<owenh>I can't think of something else to try...
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10:30<djjazda>guys i am still lost *crys allready*
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10:35<jimcooncat>owenh, wish I understood all that's involved, but I'd start by trying the simplest wiring I could to the router, like a notebook computer with crossover cable.
10:36<babilen>djjazda: Well - try different things. Check ACLs (if applicable) -- redownload/unpack the/from vendor tar.gz -- ove it somewhere else .. Try to create files there (simple bash script) and try to execute them ...
10:36<babilen>djjazda: Ask in ##linux on might also be a good idea
10:36<djjazda>aight thx
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10:57<SparFuxXx1>Are there easy ways to handle encrypted partition drives? LIke just saying "mount crypto1" or saying "mount /mnt/crypto1" and the rest is done automatically?
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10:58<ichdasich>SparFuxXx1: enter them to /etc/fstab
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10:58<SparFuxXx1>ichdasich: Yes, I did that. But if it's luks, I seem to first have to cryptdisks_start <name> and then I can mount /dev/mapper/<name>
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11:00<SparFuxXx1>ichdasich: do I have to put /dev/mapper/<name> into fstab perhaps, too?
11:01<Lantizia>Would you say the most obvious opposite of a "Super user" is a "Unprivileged user"... or some other terminology ?
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11:05<jordanm>Lantizia: luser
11:06<SparFuxXx1>I mean that an encrypted partiiton is automatically luksOpened at mount.
11:08<SparFuxXx1>ichdasich: and for example if I plug a usb stick into the computer, it should be automatically mounted.
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11:08<Lantizia>jordanm, I'd accept that if there is also a suser? is there? :D
11:09<simonrvn>it's what it is
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11:15<justme>hi all!
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11:18<CQ>hello, anyone using backupninja here? I have two removable drives that I want to back up different stuff to, one using rdiff the other rsync... but both are not always mounted. I know I can write scripts to stop the actions, but if the first one fails, backupninja never gets to the second possible backup ... any ideas?
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11:20<SparFuxXx1>Ok, this is weird already. To confiuigre an encrypted filesystem alone means editing /etc/{fstab,crypttab,keys/name.luks} ... isn't there a more centralised way to do things?
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11:23<owenh>jimcooncat: I got disconnected... I am connected now with a cable directly to the router and I get exactly the same behavior
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11:24<owenh>jimcooncat: dhcp does not work at all, firewall and shaping are disabled, policies=ACCEPT, interfaces are bridged at the router, dnsmasq logs DHCPOFFERs, still doesn't work with bridge...
11:24<owenh>Tried 2 different client systems, restarted the router, tried dnsmasq debug
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11:32<jimcooncat>owenh: argh is right. This was working at one time, or is a new setup?
11:32<owenh>It was working just days ago
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11:33<owenh>I am connected via serial console now
11:33<SparFuxXx1>I would think of not something like autofs, which tracks for files to be accessed in some directories, but about a way to have a usb stick mounted on connect automatically.
11:34<owenh>And hoping to not break my internet connection suddenly
11:34<jimcooncat>owenh: If it just pooped out with no config changes (I realise you've made some since) then I'd suspect hardware.
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11:35<owenh>Me too, except that the only thing I have left to blame is... memory/processor
11:35<owenh>I've tried over wireless and wired
11:35<owenh>But here is something weird
11:35<owenh>I see a winvista client just got a lease
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11:36<owenh>Which is great but dnsmasq is configured with 2 networks
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11:36<owenh>br0 has address
11:36<owenh>client is connected to eth3, a port of br0
11:37<owenh>But the client got address in (dnsmasq configured for another interface that does not exist now) but a default gateway of
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11:37<owenh>dnsmasq seems confused
11:37<owenh>Wait, no, that's normal behavior
11:39<jimcooncat>owenh: are you sure that there are no other dhcpd's on your network segment?
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11:40*jimcooncat envisions coworker plugging in a linksys to his network jack
11:41<owenh>good idea, I'll check the vista system too
11:41<owenh>At this point there are only 2 systems connect to the server
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11:42<jimcooncat>owenh: what's the function of your bridge?
11:42<owenh>Debian is running on a Soekris net5501 which has 4 ethernet ports. 1 port is for upstream and the other are for local.
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11:43<owenh>It also has a wireless PCI card which runs 2 wireless networks; one of those is also part of br0.
11:43<owenh>The second wireless network has another subnet; that is why dnsmasq uses 2 subnets
11:43<owenh>But now all the wireless stuff is disabled
11:44<jimcooncat>and dnsmasq is on the Soekris, correct?
11:47<Lantizia>HEy... anyone know what generates this line? Linux zeus 2.6.24-8-pve #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Oct 16 11:17:55 CEST 2009 i686
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11:48<Lantizia>uname -snrvm
11:48<Lantizia>nevermind :
11:48<jimcooncat>owenh: all I can say is that I'd simplify to get it running again. Yank the PCI card, remove the bridging, get dhcp working on one subnet. Then build back up.
11:49<owenh>vista is getting a lease now, I already disabled the other subnet in dnsmasq config
11:49<owenh>I just saw dnsmasq give a address over a interface...
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11:50<owenh>But hey maybe vista is just confused
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11:52<jimcooncat>perhaps the mask isn't what you think it is.
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11:53<owenh>Hey another good idea... but "netmask" in both stanzas of /etc/network/interfaces
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11:55<jimcooncat>owenh: I'd like to peek at your dnsmasq.conf
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11:58<dondelelcaro>(part of the switch is because swipe is cheaper, the other half is bceause people lose their cards)
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12:00<owenh>I can get a br0 DHCP lease IF I disable the public subnet part of dnsmasq.conf
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12:01<jaimesilva>hello everyone! I want to know if there is a way to change all java related alternatives to an specific "vendor", I mean that I want all the alternatives that point to /usr/lib/jvm/... to use the java-6-sun version. Must I configure them one by one (ls -l /etc/alternatives/* | grep jvm | less, then config one by one) or can I configure them all at once with some update-alternatives option?
12:02<jordanm>jaimesilva: update-java-alternatives
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12:03<jaimesilva>thanks a lot jordanm
12:04<jordanm>jaimesilva: np
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12:05<jaimesilva>should not it be java-6-oracle by now? lol :D
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12:06<jordanm>jaimesilva: I also feel I should correct your command a bit... find /etc/alternatives -name '*jvm*' | pager
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12:08<jaimesilva>jordanm: actually I was using the -l flag on ls in order to get where those links point to, and then fiter the ones pointing to /usr/lib/jvm, it was working but update-java-alternatives is a time saver, thanks
12:08<owenh>jimcooncat: br0 lease works when wlan0_0/public subnet is disabled in dnsmasq.conf, but only for some clients... ???
12:08<jimcooncat>owenh: I think you may need to specify a gateway, especially for your "public" segment. See
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12:10<owenh>jimcooncat: looks good, I'll assign a gateway for each subnet
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12:12<jaimesilva>damn! I keep getting Network is unreachable
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12:12<jordanm>jaimesilva: what version of debian?
12:13<jaimesilva>testing amd64
12:13<jaimesilva>testing/unstable amd64
12:13<jordanm>!ipv6 squeeze
12:13<jordanm>!java ipv6
12:13<dpkg>As of netbase 4.38, net.ipv6.bindv6only=1 is set, see . This currently breaks networking in Java for sun-java6-jdk (openjdk-6 is fixed as of version 6b18~pre1-3), see for solutions. In short, sed -i 's/net.ipv6.bindv6only = 1/net.ipv6.bindv6only = 0/' /etc/sysctl.d/bindv6only.conf ; invoke-rc.d procps restart. This issue is not present on Lenny.
12:14<babilen>... wasn't that fixed in openjdk?
12:14<jordanm>babilen: the change was reverted in netbase, but will not apply to existing squeeze installations
12:15<jordanm>and yes, IIRC, the issue was only with sun java
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12:15<owenh>jimcooncat: okay, gateway seems to be working with the vista system, I'll check others
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12:16<owenh>jimcooncat: same behavior from a Linux-based wireless tablet, just these lines logged repeatedly:
12:16<owenh>2010-07-28T11:15:36.088867-05:00 dnsmasq-dhcp[6830]: DHCPDISCOVER(br0) 00:1d:6e:d5:9a:1b
12:16<owenh>2010-07-28T11:15:36.089804-05:00 dnsmasq-dhcp[6830]: DHCPOFFER(br0) 00:1d:6e:d5:9a:1b
12:16<owenh>I will try again from this system; it may interrupt my IRC connection
12:17<jaimesilva>jordanm: so even if I used openjdk I will still have that problem?
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12:21<edbian>Is there a package in the repos to send a wake on lan packet?
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12:22<dpkg>it has been said that wol is Wake-on-LAN, a method of powering on a computer remotely through the use of a "magic" packet. See and for more information. WoL utilities packaged for Debian: etherwake, wakeonlan. Online WOL services: ,
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12:25<owenh>jimcooncat: Okay I'm back
12:25<owenh>DHCP leases seem to work fine from vista
12:26<owenh>But not from 2 linux-based systems, one wirelessly, one wired
12:26<owenh>Both work fine outside the bridge
12:26<jaimesilva>jordanm: thanks a lot for your help, it is working now. About that grep command I'll stick with ls since what I need is the place the link points to and I know for sure that there are no spaces or newlines on the /etc/alternatives/* files
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12:27<owenh>jimcooncat: but with the bridge works if I disable the public subnet in dnsmasq.conf
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12:30<owenh>jimcooncat: new dnsmasq.conf is
12:30<owenh>jimcooncat: I appreciate your help lots.
12:30<jimcooncat>owenh: I'm just trying to learn
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12:32<jimcooncat>owenh: stupid question: you've been restarting the daemon after config changes?
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12:33<owenh>Yeah, sometimes twice :)
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12:37<owenh>jimcooncat: I shrunk the dnsmasq.conf to ; no change
12:38<jimcooncat>owenh: so vista client works, but not linux. that's where we're at, correct?
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12:39<owenh>jimcooncat: I remember I have a /etc/dnsmasq.d/static-hosts.conf with dhcp-host entries. I will try with those disabled
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12:40<owenh>no change
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12:41<jimcooncat>owenh: I'm trying to figure out how dnsmasq knows br0=private and wlan0_0=public
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12:42<owenh>Well I think dnsmasq just listens on all interfaces, and then answers based on the address of the interface that the DHCPREQUEST was received on.
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12:42<owenh>Because br0= and wlan0_0=
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12:43<owenh>and it has worked that way for quite a while ... :(
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12:45<owenh>jimcooncat: But something does definitely seem to be going wrong with public versus private
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12:48<owenh>jimcooncat: Here is output from dnsmasq with --log-dhcp:
12:49<owenh>I see "tags: public, br0" which is totally wrong; it should be private
12:49<sasha>anyone know how to enable touchpad clic? I dont use gnome
12:50<jimcooncat>I was just going to ask you about that
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12:50<jimcooncat>owenh: what IP is br0?
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12:52<owenh>jimcooncat: Well I guess I have to go I'll be back as soon as I can
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12:53<jimcooncat>owenh: good luck. I hope we narrowed it down a bit -- I'd super-verify that the IP addresses are actually what you think.
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13:06<jimcooncat>owenh: you still here?
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13:09<owenh>jimcooncat: I'm back
13:09<owenh>Sorry about that
13:09<jimcooncat>owenh: Try this,
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13:11<owenh>jimcooncat: no change
13:12<jimcooncat>owenh: shoot. Well, that about does it for me
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13:12<owenh>But I see some extra interface settings in dnsmasq(8)
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13:13<owenh>But thanks lots, yeah you helped me narrow it down to dnsmasq basically
13:13<owenh>I don't know why it worked before and doesn't now but hopefully I eventually will
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13:17<Lantizia>Hey do any of you bother locking the root account and using sudo instead on servers?
13:18<Lantizia>But surely an obscurified password is enough?
13:18<jimcooncat>Lantizia: that's not as important to me as making sure you can't log in as root via ssh
13:18<petemc>i dont disable the root account but do use sudo, id imagine lots of other people do same
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13:18<jordanm>Lantizia: I personally feel that is very bad practice
13:18<Lantizia>jordanm, disabling root is bad practice ?
13:19<owenh>Oops yeah, that's what I meant: ssh
13:19<jordanm>Lantizia: giving a user the equivelent privledges as root is
13:19*jimcooncat feels servers should be physically locked up
13:19<terr_>Can anyone give me some ideas on a system for collaboration of multiple kinds of documents which will run on linux, mac and pc? CVS will probably not do the job because what I need is to support non-programmers
13:19<Lantizia>I normally lock root, remove it's password, and make a admin user with sudo rights
13:19<Lantizia>But I don't call it admin... I have another name for it
13:20<Lantizia>So they have to guess both username and password
13:20<Lantizia>But now I'm wondering if it's even worth it
13:20<jordanm>Lantizia: you can disable root ssh login without disabling the root account
13:20<jordanm>I personally feel that "simon says" is not properly implemented security
13:20<jimcooncat>Lantizia: doesn't help with a knowledgeable user with physical access
13:20<meglaw>terr_: open office.
13:21<Lantizia>jordanm, simon says?
13:21<Lantizia>jimcooncat, true
13:21<jordanm>Lantizia: sudo
13:21<Lantizia>ah !: D
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13:22<jordanm>Lantizia: I was once in a capture the flag competition at a infosec conference. we compromised a users password on the windows server (with a SMB vuln), then we used the same compromised credentials on the linux server... he had sudo access
13:22<jordanm>so in that particular scenerio, compromising a regular user == compromising root
13:22<jimcooncat>terr_: gobby for collaborative text editing.
13:23<petemc>thats hardly an argument against sudo
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13:23<Lantizia>true but in my case the user with sudo access.. is not a regular user - just another account to replace root
13:23<petemc>rather an argument against using the same password for different things
13:23<Lantizia>like "admin" or "administrator"... it wouldn't have a typical users password
13:23<owenh>jimcooncat: fixed! see You helped me track it down; thanks. I don't know why dnsmasq worked so well before with it like that but it does seem that the syntax was incorrect before.
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13:24<Lantizia>I think I'm going to leave root user alone, and even allow it via SSH as well
13:24<jimcooncat>owenh: set: and tag:? oh shoot
13:25<Lantizia>and instead not open the SSH ports and require users use the VPN
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13:25<jordanm>Lantizia: you can atleast do PermitRootLogin without-password, to require a public key
13:25<Lantizia>or at least lock down where people can SSH from
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13:25<owenh>jimcooncat: It seems like I based that original dnsmasq.conf on examples from somewhere, but anyway the set: ang tag: seems to be the actual correct way.
13:25<Lantizia>jordanm, yeah but then you've gotta keep them somewhere!
13:26<jordanm>the odds of bruteforcing a public key are *extremely* low... much more likely the client containing the key gets compromised and used
13:26*jimcooncat raises a toast to owenh
13:26<Lantizia>the odd's of bruteforcing aBcD0123
13:26<Lantizia>my password format ?
13:27<owenh>cheers! I'm off now to try connecting this client the right way and do some more testing, etc. Thanks.
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13:27<jordanm>Lantizia: really low when you get into 10+ full ascii characters...
13:27<Lantizia>15 years lol
13:27<Lantizia>isn't 15 years low enough?
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13:28<jordanm>Lantizia: the time can be reduced by throwing an entire botnet on it... but we have denyhosts and fail2ban to prevent any bruteforcing in the first place
13:28<Lantizia>even with 100 computers it would be 51 days
13:29<Lantizia>plus there is a UTM device in front looking for this kind of thing
13:29<jordanm>Lantizia: I would also say that the number of passwords per sec is high on that by default. with ssh you have delays after failures, and well as disconnects after a set number of failures
13:30<Lantizia>ok so all of these security measures are pointless basically
13:30<Lantizia>just have a good root password - the end
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13:31<jordanm>Lantizia: well, the basics should be covered, then the main concern the vulnerabilities in hosted services
13:31<jordanm>Lantizia: or in applications used locally, a web browser for example
13:31<Lantizia>jordanm, what do you consider the basisc however?
13:32<jordanm>Lantizia: non-dictionary password. denyhosts or fail2ban for brute force prevention
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13:32<Lantizia>jordanm, are they not all as default anyway?
13:33<jordanm>Lantizia: what do you mean?
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13:33<Lantizia>jordanm, are they not all set up by default in the openssh package when you first install it?
13:34<jordanm>Lantizia: no, they are external. they work by monitoring the authentication logs
13:34<themill>Lantizia: no, non-dictionary passwords, denyhosts and fail2ban are not set up by default when you install openssh
13:34<Lantizia>probably on my untangle firewall however :S
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13:35<jordanm>reminds me... I need to come up with a fail2ban rule that will block uses scanning my webserver for phpmyadmin (even though I don't run it, makes my logs look ugly :p)
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13:43<pavi>dpkg parsix
13:43<dpkg>rumour has it, parsix is a live/installation CD based on <kanotix>. It is not supported in #debian. #parsix on See also <based on Debian>.
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13:45<pavi>Parsix package repositories are synchronized with Debian testing repositories as of July 1, 2010 and for the first time we are offering our own multimedia repository called Wonderland which is a snapshot of Debian Multimedia repository.
13:45<pavi>It should have been for english
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13:46<jordanm>uhh, so how is it different than debian testing + dmm?
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13:47<pavi>goal is to provide a ready to use, easy to install, desktop and laptop optimized operating system based on Debian's testing branch and the latest stable release of GNOME desktop environment
13:48<pavi>nothing much its a easy to use dvd aimed at persian audience. good thing is it uses testing
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14:06<r0ger>how do i get limits from pam to take effect?
14:06<r0ger>su to the user had no effect
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14:13<karme>r0ger: login
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14:26<SparFuxXx1>How can I make ivman as a system daemon directly mount crypted usb deviices.
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14:45<blockowitsch>hello. is there any tool in debian that listens on a specified port and simply dumps all incomming data?
14:45<ichdasich>blockowitsch: netcat
14:46<ichdasich>blockowitsch: the swiss army knife of network engineering
14:46<blockowitsch>hmm...i'll check that, thx :)
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14:47<babilen>blockowitsch: Take a look at tcpdump as well, although I can't comment on netcat vs tcpdump
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14:48<ichdasich>babilen: well... different aproaches...
14:48<blockowitsch>netcat -l seems to provide exactly what i need, thanks
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14:57<cerre>just installed smuxi
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14:58<cerre>this is so great. a room dedicated to debian only
14:58<retrospectacus>looks like it's working for ya
14:58<cerre>looks so yes
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15:00<carles>Debian is universal operating system
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15:02<carles>debian taught me how Linux works and teaches me to know a little English
15:02-!-k-man [] has joined #debian
15:03<carles>has it all, wisdom and knowledge in abundance
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15:04<retrospectacus>let us know if you have any problems. This is a support channel :)
15:05<carles>I took a year and half in GNU / linux debian's hand
15:05<cerre>debian is THE operating system for desktops. centos is usually the choise for servers, but debian has the largest repository of software, all available from one (or two) sources
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15:06<SparFuxXx1>debian is for servers, too.
15:06<cerre>yes, but a rhce told me that its not the best for servers because of its short support time
15:06<carles>I didn't study computer but I like
15:07<carles>CentOs is more stable than Debian for servers???
15:07<SparFuxXx1>cerre: short support time?
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15:08<cerre>so he said yes
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15:08<SparFuxXx1>what does it mean?
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15:10<sasha>hello, I use LXDE and I can't get my touchpad to click on tap, anyone know how to enable it?
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15:11<terr_>meglaw: can you tell me where to find some docs on this?
15:11<carles>touchpad use and apt-get install xserver-xorg-input-synaptics
15:12<luzer>can anyone help with setting up ati driver (fglrx)?
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15:14<SparFuxXx1>Can halevt mount encrypted volumes?
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15:16<meglaw>terr_: the internets...
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15:17<terr_>meglaw: I found this:
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15:19<sasha>notrev, I went through that but the procedures do not work for me, I also installed gsynaptics, but I'm not even able to launch it
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15:22<notrev>sasha, try executing 'synclient TapButton1=1'
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15:22<notrev>sasha, as written in /usr/share/doc/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/NEWS.Debian.gz
15:23<babilen>sasha: Could you paste the output of "xinput list-props "SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad"
15:24<sasha>ok, just a sec
15:24<babilen>sasha: Does the synclient command enable tapping for you?
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15:26<sasha>notrev, babilen, synclient TapButton1=1 enabled touchpad click, is this going to stay this way or will I need to do it after every reboot?
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15:26<notrev>sasha, you'll have to run it after rebooting
15:26<babilen>sasha: It will not stay -- You should add 'Option "TapButton1" "1"
15:27<notrev>sasha, but you can try adding it to your ~/.bashrc
15:27<babilen>... to the "InputDevice" section in your xorg.conf
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15:28<luzer>hi! can someone please help me with display problem? cant configure ati driver (fglrx).
15:28<notrev>babilen, i tried that, but t didn't work for me
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15:29<babilen>sasha: Doesn't LXDE has some configuration program for touchpads as well?
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15:29<notrev>luzer, try aticonfig --init -f
15:29<sasha>babilen, it's a very plain one, and it does not have the option to enable the touchpad cilck
15:30-!-mode/#debian [+l 409] by debhelper
15:31<babilen>sasha: Ok, there are just plenty of ways to configure this behaviour these days and I thought that the newest Xorg was supposed to be configured *entirely* automagically or within xorg.conf
15:32<babilen>sasha: Do you use HAL? Or udev?
15:32<sasha>babilen, I see, as long as there's a fix I'm happy with it, that's the way linux behaves so I'm used to it, I modified xorg.conf as you instructed, that will enable the click automatically right?
15:33<sasha>babilen, I use hal
15:33<luzer>notrev: what does this command do? it says "segmentation error". my problem is after I install fglrx and try to edit xorg.conf and put Driver "fglrx", X server cant initialize
15:33-!-SQlvpapir [~teis@] has joined #debian
15:34<jordanm>luzer: pastebin /var/log/Xorg.0.log
15:36<saha>luzer: have you tried to generate xorg.conf automatically "aticonfig --initial"?
15:36-!-chomwitt [] has joined #debian
15:36<babilen>sasha: It should -- could you paste your xorg.conf for me -- You *could* write a hal .fdi file like to /etc/hal/fdi/policy/ -- but that is supposed to be deprecated. Another way would be to create some udev rules, but I don't have them ready right now
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15:38<notrev>luzer, have you downloaded the driver from ?
15:38<notrev>or used apt?
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15:43<luzer>sasha: when I try to runn "aticonfig --initial" I get error
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15:43<jordanm>luzer: looks like xorg.conf is not configured properly. you are running on vesa drivers (not a good sign it did not pick up on fglrx)
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15:44<jordanm>luzer: what kind of card do you have?
15:44<luzer>notrev: I downloaded from ati official page but coulnd install them because I got error that fglrx is alredy installed
15:44<SparFuxXx1>Is there a replacement for halevt for use with devicekit?
15:44<luzer>notrev: actually, nevermind that, I remembered now, I used apt
15:44<jordanm>luzer: drivers from are not supported here
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15:45<jordanm>luzer: what error does aticonfig give you?
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15:46<luzer>jordanm: segmentation error. what do you mean that drivers arent supported?
15:46<luzer>jordanm: I used apt to install fglrx
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15:47<babilen>sasha: Change "Driver" from "mouse" to "synaptics"
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15:47<sasha>babilen, done
15:47<babilen>sasha: Try it
15:48<sasha>ok, just a sec, I'm trying to get numlock to automatic also
15:48<jordanm>luzer: pastebin the full command given and the error, along with: "apt-cache policy fglrx-driver"
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15:49<jordanm>luzer: what I meant was, if you installed the ati.conf drivers instead of apt, you would have to get help getting it to work elsewhere
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15:50<saha>I come here again with another stupid question
15:50<saha>How should I report bugs?
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15:50<luzer>jordanm: I tought so, but I didn't :)
15:51-!-sasha [~sasha@] has joined #debian
15:51<sasha>babilen, it worked
15:51<saha>I found a bug that is present in a program I installed from apt, should I add this bug to the debian bugzilla?
15:51<babilen>sasha: yay \o/
15:51<bremner>saha: use reportbug
15:51-!-SQlvpapir [~teis@] has joined #debian
15:51<dpkg>used to submit bugs to the Debian <BTS>. Install reportbug, then run reportbug. Or on the web,, or see for some general information about using reportbug and/or for <debian-installer> bug reporting. Also ask me about <report-bugs>.
15:52<jordanm>debian does not have a bugzilla
15:52<sasha>babilen, thanx a lot
15:52<saha>ok, I mean bugtracking service, sorry:)
15:53<saha>Didn't remembered the correct term
15:53<jordanm>bugzilla usually refers to a specific bug tracking application... one which typically requires and account to file a bug... ewww
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15:53<jordanm>!tell luzer about localized errors
15:53<babilen>sasha: No problem -- There were a bunch of changes in the last year and there is a lot of bullshit regarding that around on the internet. AFAIK xorg.conf is the *only* place you should have to edit for configuration if you don't use a daemon to handle these options
15:54<saha>Yes, but I forgot about it
15:54<jordanm>luzer: I suggest trying fglrx-driver from backports
15:54<jordanm>,versions fglrx-source
15:54<judd>fglrx-source -- lenny/non-free: 1:8-12-4; lenny-backports/non-free: 1:10-4-1~bpo50+1; sid/non-free: 1:10-6-1; squeeze/non-free: 1:10-6-1
15:54<jordanm>luzer: you will also need to rebuild the module using the fglrx-source from backports
15:55<saha>Well, so if I found a bug in a program, I should add it to debian bugtracker and this program bugtracker, right?
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15:56<jordanm>saha: yes. I recommend running "reportbug" without arguements the first run, which will walk you through configuration
15:56<babilen>sasha: No, reportbug is a program that will help you to file a bug.
15:57<oddtod>is it a good practice to starting isolating services? either through jailing them or virtual machines?
15:57<sasha>babilen ??
15:57<babilen>sasha: I meant saha not you :)
15:57<sasha>oh, another user with a similar nick
15:57<jordanm>oddtod: it can be. some applications, such as bind9 and postfix, are that way by default
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15:58<saha>jordanm: ok
15:58<sasha>babilen, what about if I want to enable numlock automatically at boot rather than when X starts?
15:58<jordanm>saha: most BIOS's can do that
15:59<oddtod>jordanm; if i do this should it be through jailing them or XEN or Vbox?
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15:59<luzer>jordanm: can you please explaing how can I uninstal these and install those one from backports?
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16:01<EatItRaw>I changed nickname:)
16:02<jordanm>luzer: you don't need to uninstall the existing one, as it will be treated as an upgrade
16:03<jordanm>luzer: just install the one from backports and the upgrade should handled properly. don't forget to rebuild the module, m-a clean; m-a a-i fglrx-source
16:03-!-smv [smv@] has joined #debian
16:05<babilen>luzer: If you don't know how: "aptitude -t lenny-backports install pkg" installs pkg from backports
16:06<jordanm>I assumed he did, since he had a backports kernel
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16:06<luzer>babilen: I know that part, but rebuilding modules?
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16:07<jordanm>luzer: did you use m-a to build it the first time?
16:07<babilen>luzer: Just install that and call "m-a clean ; m-a a-i fglrx-source" as mentioned by jordanm
16:09<luzer>jordanm: no, I just used "aptitude install fglrx..."
16:09<luzer>babilen: ok!
16:09<EatItRaw>Well, I also decided to build recent sources from svn repo to check if they've already fixed the bug
16:10-!-Torsten_W [~torsten@] has quit [Quit: so, nu isser wech]
16:10<EatItRaw>However, the program don't run
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16:10<EatItRaw>because of " => not found"
16:11<EatItRaw>and few similar library missings
16:11<luzer>babilen, jordanm: maybe, this will sound stupid but what is "m-a"??
16:11<judd>No packages were found with that file.
16:11<babilen>luzer: module-assistant
16:11<jordanm>luzer: shorthand for module-assistant
16:11<dpkg>from memory, module-assistant is a tool helping to build additional (kernel) module packages and install them. "aptitude install module-assistant". See usage examples at . Log files from successful (and unsuccessful!) builds can be found in /var/cache/modass/
16:11<jordanm>,file --release sid
16:11<judd>No packages were found with that file.
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16:12<miguel>hla gilipolaas
16:12<babilen>miguel: Come again?
16:12<miguel>k dices gilipollas
16:13<EatItRaw>I don't want to do symlins to these libraries
16:13<luzer>jordanm, babilen: thanks! I'm really new to this so I hope you understand...btw, since I'm just starting, where do I learn this stuff? like this? from the docs? books? :)
16:13<miguel>in spanish please
16:13<EatItRaw>they provided script for updating environment:, how should I execute it properly?
16:13-!-rvdnberg [] has joined #debian
16:13<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat
16:13<dpkg>Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @ or use English here.
16:14<miguel>dpkg es tonto
16:14<dpkg>tonto: Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat
16:14<miguel>todo el mundo es gilipollas,gilipollas
16:14<babilen>miguel: Stop it please
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16:14<babilen>luzer: Well, yeah - exactly like this.
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16:15-!-miguel was kicked from #debian by themill [You should know better]
16:15<luzer>babilen: :) yeah, but first step would be? or a best place to start?
16:15-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*@] by themill
16:15-!-mode/#debian [-o themill] by themill
16:15<EatItRaw>ah, I just copypasted lines from that .sh into my terminal
16:15<luzer>jordanm: "build of the package fglrx-source failed" what now?
16:16<EatItRaw>and it worked, but how do I execute scripts with "export blahblahblah
16:16<jordanm>luzer: pastebin the log
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16:18<AlBaTrOs>can someone help me route my internet connection through my debian server?
16:19-!-komputes [~komputes@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:19<jordanm>AlBaTrOs: just for HTTP, or all protocols?
16:19<AlBaTrOs>i recently installed another eth board to route my internet out of the machine and into the wireless router
16:19<AlBaTrOs>all protocols
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16:19<jordanm>oh, you want to use debian for a router...
16:20<AlBaTrOs>i found something about iptables...but i found it for ubuntu
16:20<babilen>I'm going home -- good luck jordanm and luzer! May you have a nice evening/night!
16:20<luzer>babilen: thank you! ;)
16:20<retrospectacus>AlBaTrOs: you can find many tutorials online, they will probably work for any linux. You should try and ask here if you run into specific problems.
16:21<AlBaTrOs>well i did
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16:21<AlBaTrOs>see this tut
16:21<jordanm>luzer: something odd is going on with your machine I think...
16:21<AlBaTrOs>after the first command, it didn't recognize NEW
16:21<jordanm>luzer: pastebin "apt-cache policy; apt-cache policy libc6"
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16:22<jordanm>AlBaTrOs: are you sure that the methods are the same in ubuntu as they are in debian?
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16:22<AlBaTrOs>i just didn't find anything for debian
16:23<dpkg>If all you want is NAT (internet connection sharing), aptitude install ipmasq; and be happy. Otherwise learn about it at . The ipmasq package was removed from Debian post-Lenny to resolve bug #538384.
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16:24<AlBaTrOs>then it should be nice that i have debian sid on it :)
16:24<AlBaTrOs>i got nothing to do with lenny
16:24<rvdnberg>use sid on a router?
16:24<retrospectacus>bad idea. should use the stablest distro for a router
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16:25-!-mode/#debian [-o themill] by themill
16:25<AlBaTrOs>i have my own reasons to use an unstable release
16:25<AlBaTrOs>and that shouldn't be such a problme
16:25<themill>nor should reading the iptables docs then…
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16:26<retrospectacus>AlBaTrOs: just set the policy accept on that forward table
16:26<ichdasich>AlBaTrOs: while your at it, take a look at $tunnel_proto
16:26<AlBaTrOs>i just started reading that how-to
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16:29<AlBaTrOs>thanks for the help :)
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16:30<dpkg>used to submit bugs to the Debian <BTS>. Install reportbug, then run reportbug. Or on the web,, or see for some general information about using reportbug and/or for <debian-installer> bug reporting. Also ask me about <report-bugs>.
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16:34<dpkg>< Szeraax> oh how i love having multiple people
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16:36<luzer>jordanm: any ideas what i should do?
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16:46<EatItRaw>Well, I almost completed my bugreport
16:46<EatItRaw>Should I include logs into the report body?
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16:46<jordanm>luzer: I would actually suggest the mailing list... I can understand the backports module not building, but not aticonfig segfaulting
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16:48<luzer>jordanm: ok. just one pm.
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16:54<Priyank>hi anybody knows about ltsp?
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16:55<Priyank>ltsp??.. how to configure dhcp
16:55<Txt-file>is it possible to make a image of a DVD that is encrypted with css? I wanted to you make a image with dd but that don't work.
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16:57<sasha>hello, I cannot seem to get my mic to work, I know it works since I'm dual booting, and the speakers work fine, alsamixer has nothing muted, anything I can do?
16:58<Saha>is your pc a laptop or a desktop?
16:58-!-dima [~dima@] has joined #debian
16:58<Saha>and is it silent or you can hear some noise?
16:59<sasha>completely silent after any attempt to record, but speakers work fine
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16:59<Saha>Have you tried switching to "Capture" tab in alsamixer and then changing input source?
17:00<Saha>run alsamixer and then press F4
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17:01<sasha>i see the capture meters, but I don't know how to change the input source
17:01<Saha>use up-down arrows
17:01<sasha>only the volume changes with that, but not the source
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17:03<bechampy>hi there, i am trying to get oss4 + gnash with working sound, when I use oss4 from the repo, gnash, flash32 and flash64 will not have sound. When I use the oss4 deb from the opensound website only flash64 will give sound
17:03<freestyle>one question
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17:03<freestyle>i have a nas with linux
17:03<Blacktail>hi all
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17:03<freestyle>is posible install debian arm packet in this device
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17:04<Saha>sasha: Well, you may also try pressing F6 and checking if you selected correct sound card. But I guess you will have only one position there.
17:05<sasha>saha, right, the correct one is selected
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17:06<jhutchins>freestyle: I think it depends on the hardware. Yes, there's an arm kernel from debian, but the rest of the hardware is unknown.
17:06<martian67>there is also several types of ARM :)
17:06<jhutchins>freestyle: I would strongly suggest searching for <your hardware> + "linux".
17:06<Saha>sasha: I am not very experienced, but maybe 'alsactl init' may help. It should reset your settings. Try this command, and then go back to alsamixer to check Source device and bars
17:06<martian67>arm in general is extremely diverse
17:07<freestyle>jhutchins my nas work with linux
17:07<freestyle>and exist a proyect called chroot debian
17:07<jhutchins>freestyle: Just be sure you have a way to re-install the original software and give it a try!
17:08<freestyle>but in this moment
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17:08<freestyle>i only try one package
17:08<freestyle>is posible?
17:08<Saha>sasha: Also, I think you may be from Russia, no? In case I am right, have you checked
17:09-!-jmho_ [~quassel@] has joined #debian
17:09<jhutchins>freestyle: You need the linux kernel + c libraries to run packages in linux.
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17:10<sasha>saha, hehe, I'm from el salvador, and alsactl init worked
17:10<freestyle>if i have a package
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17:10<freestyle>do i try to cros scompile in a pc?
17:11<Txt-file>freestyle: what do you really want to do? install debian instead the original firmware or something else?
17:11<Saha>sasha: ah, your name is quite popular in Russia:)
17:11<freestyle>install a package in a nas
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17:11<Saha>sasha: I was glad to help you
17:12<freestyle>the package es in debiar repository
17:12-!-SQlvpapir [~teis@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:12<sasha>saha, unfortunately my name is not popular here XD, and thanks for you help
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17:13<Txt-file>freestyle: do you have debian running?
17:13<freestyle>i have another linux
17:13<Txt-file>what linux?
17:14<moldovean>freestyle, see #debian-arm
17:14<Saha>sasha: don't you like to have rare name? BTW, my name is sasha too. Again, was glad to help
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17:17<sasha>saha, I do, the problem is that normally, in el salvador a name that ends with "a" are for girls XD, I had a hard time as a kid because of that haha
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17:18<Saha>sasha: ah, this may be a problem with rare names:)
17:19<sasha>saha: indeed XD
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17:36<cesurasean1>Debian Etch installation stopped at 5%, after installing the kernel, etc. Does anyone know if Debian is compatible with a Dell Poweredge 2300?
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17:37<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean1: Google?
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17:37<cesurasean1>it's not a laptop.
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17:37<cesurasean1>poweredge is a server class
17:37<petemc>cesurasean1: is there a reason you're using etch?
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17:37<cesurasean1>petemc, neither lenny, nor squeeze seem to load.
17:38<cesurasean1>kernel panics on PCI, and ACPI.
17:38-!-jrib [] has joined #debian
17:38<cesurasean1>the installation kernel, i meant
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17:39<cesurasean1>petemc, do you have any suggestions for me to get squeeze running?
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17:40<petemc>cesurasean1: have a look at the linux poweredge mailing list archives, see if anyone else got debian running on that model
17:40<petemc>ive installed on plenty of poweredges, not that particular one tho
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17:41<cesurasean1>do you think the acpi is related to the dual processor?
17:41<cesurasean1>Is Debian able to handle Dual P2 Stepping 0's
17:42<petemc>i would imagine the cpu isnt the problem
17:42<petemc>you could try booting with acpi=off
17:42<xjjk>cesurasean1: also, noapic
17:42<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean1: Yes, debian can handle them.
17:42<cesurasean1>xjjk, what is the noapic command, exactly?
17:42<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean1: More likely the motherboard implementation of those features.
17:43<xjjk>disables use of advanced programmable interrupt controller
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17:43<xjjk>it's complicated, but in short, disables use of that feature for managing irqs
17:43<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean1: These are paramaters you add to the kernel boot line to change it's handling of certain hardware.
17:43<cesurasean1>xjjk, how do i use the noapic?
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17:43<xjjk>cesurasean1: same as acpi=off
17:43-!-jrib [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0]
17:43<jhutchins_lt>xjjk: Hey, be nice.
17:44<cesurasean1>so there is only one command which can alter the install state? acpi=off?
17:44<xjjk>I am, I think
17:44<cahoot>acpi != apic
17:44<cesurasean1>ok, so there is apic=no?
17:44<xjjk>cesurasean1: these aren't really "commands"
17:44<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean1: I haven't run the installer enough to remember how to pass them.
17:44<xjjk>they're options/parameters
17:44<cesurasean1>I know. they are boot params.
17:45<cesurasean1>I know how to use them
17:45<jhutchins_lt>xjjk: Do you know the steps to add them to the installer?
17:45<cesurasean1>is there 1, or 2 commands I can try? I'm confused of this.
17:45<xjjk>jhutchins_lt: off the top of my head no... I am really sure it's in the menu
17:45<cesurasean1>just 1?
17:45<xjjk>under expert
17:45<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean1: I think there's also noacpi
17:45<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean1: =noapic, noacpi
17:45*jordanm thinks we already went through this yesterday
17:45<petemc>you type linux acpi=off at the boot prompt
17:45<xjjk>cesurasean1: yeah, I used to go through this with my old server hardware. permuting random kernel boot options to find something that works
17:45*jhutchins_lt thinks that means we need a factoid.
17:46<jhutchins_lt>petemc: On the installer?
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17:46<cesurasean1>yes, factoid would be nice.
17:46<petemc>jhutchins_lt: yes
17:46-!-tarniak [] has joined #debian
17:46<cesurasean1>can someone repeat both commands for me, entirely.
17:46<jhutchins_lt>!tell cesurasean1 about install guide
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17:46<cesurasean1>i don't quite understand the noapic
17:47<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean1 noapic, noacpi
17:47<cesurasean1>oh ok
17:47<cesurasean1>i see
17:47<xjjk>jhutchins_lt: I'm not sure whether there's a noacpi...
17:47<xjjk>cesurasean1: so, these options aren't really standard. different modules take different things
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17:47<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean1 apic = advanced programmable interrupt controller, acpi = Advanced Configuration and Power Interface
17:48<petemc>there is a noacpi, and a nousb, and a few others
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17:48<cesurasean1>where is a list of these commands? in the install guide?
17:49<RJARRRPCGP>I'm having a show stopper with kernel compiling.
17:49<RJARRRPCGP>I'm trying to set up an rt kernel for Lenny.
17:49<cesurasean1>jutchins_lt, thx for the info
17:49<petemc>cesurasean1: probably the install guide and there may be a help screen at the boot prompt
17:49<cesurasean1>petemc, ok, thx
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17:49<RJARRRPCGP>A tutorial I'm using is here:
17:49-!-fdds [] has quit []
17:50-!-mode/#debian [+l 395] by debhelper
17:50<cinch>RJARRRPCGP, heh i'm building a RT kernel for sid
17:50<cesurasean1>Let me throw some commands at Lenny and see if I can get to boot.
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17:50<cinch>RJARRRPCGP, i'm looking at
17:50<RJARRRPCGP>Looks like probable epic fail here, the failure is occurring at patching.
17:51<RJARRRPCGP>With dry-run, it complains about being patched and then tells me HUNK FAILED at 502 (or similar)
17:51<cinch>which kernel version are you using? is it vanilla or the debian-kernel?
17:51<RJARRRPCGP>From lol
17:51<jordanm>RJARRRPCGP: then the patch was not meant to be applied on the source tree that you have (the section is different than it expects)
17:52<RJARRRPCGP>I'm trying to set up.
17:52<craigevil>RJARRRPCGP: take a look at
17:52<xjjk>jthomas_sb_: I don't have the source on hand, but if you search for "Linux noacpi", you get no hits
17:52<xjjk>I'm pretty sure it's acpi=off, and noacpi doesn't exist
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17:52<RJARRRPCGP>And the patch I wget'ed appears to be for
17:52<jthomas_sb_>pardon, xjjk ?
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17:53<xjjk>jthomas_sb_: er, sorry, wrong jthomas...
17:53<xjjk>jhutchins_lt: rather, I don't have the source on hand, but if you search for "Linux noacpi", you get no hits
17:53<RJARRRPCGP>Because I cannot find a patch for
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17:53<jordanm>RJARRRPCGP: lenny's .26 will be patched anyways, and patches made for the upstream kernel likely will not apply
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17:54<xjjk>jhutchins_lt: yeh, there's no noacpi
17:54<moldovean>RJARRRPCGP, ask in # ubuntu
17:54<xjjk>there's acpi=off, and pci=noacpi
17:54<cesurasean>trying that now
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17:55<xjjk>cesurasean: so, the two options you want to try: noacpi, and acpi=off
17:55<xjjk>that is, try with just noacpi, then try with just acpi=off, then try with both (space separated)
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17:56<jhutchins_lt>xjjk: Um, there is on the page I'm looking at.
17:56<cesurasean>apic=off pci=noacpi?
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17:56<cesurasean>i think you are mistyping the commands, no?
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17:56<jhutchins_lt>noacpi [X86] Do not use ACPI for IRQ routing or for PCI scanning.
17:56<xjjk>jhutchins_lt: read a few lines above
17:57<xjjk>that's an option to pci
17:57<cesurasean>i see
17:57<xjjk>jhutchins_lt: in full, it'd be pci=noacpi
17:57<xjjk>cesurasean: what I gave you is exactly what I've used before
17:57<jhutchins_lt>xjjk: noacpi is also valid, as is noapic.
17:57<cesurasean>booting now. let's see if this works.
17:58<xjjk>jhutchins_lt: I don't see that in that file
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17:58<xjjk>it may be for all I know
17:58<jhutchins_lt>firefox has a nice "find" feature.
17:58<xjjk>jhutchins_lt: what line?
17:58<jhutchins_lt>Dunno, no line numbers.
17:59<cesurasean>booting kernel, then got PCI: Cannot allocate resource region 4 of device 0000:00:07.1
17:59*jhutchins_lt thinks it's alphabetical though.
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17:59<xjjk>well, if you're talking about the "noacpi" mentioned on line 1994
17:59<xjjk>that's an option to pci
18:00<xjjk>i.e. you'd use it, pci=noacpi
18:00<cesurasean>i tried pci=noapic
18:00<cesurasean>xjjk, i tried both commands and i still got an PCI error?
18:00<xjjk>cesurasean: mm
18:00<cesurasean>the install seems to halt after the pci error.
18:01<xjjk>I really can't help you very much without sitting in front of the machine myself...
18:01<cesurasean>xjjk, sure you can. how do i get rid of the PCI error?
18:01<xjjk>it's very likely the issue is some ACPI problem, the computer is old enough that ACPI was notoriously buggy back then
18:01<xjjk>did you say this was a Pentium 2?
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18:02<jhutchins_lt>Well, pci buss problem.
18:02<cesurasean>yes, it seems a pci bus problem. how do i fix this though?
18:02<xjjk>I haven't used a machine that old recently but acpi was so buggy on machines that old, Linux acpi actually was disabled by default for computers older than 2001
18:03<jhutchins_lt>xjjk: Which installer are you trying?
18:03<cesurasean>I'm trying Lenny.
18:04<cesurasean>Ok, I don't think I'm doing this right.
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18:04<RJARRRPCGP>Thanks for that link.
18:05<cesurasean>I was adding that command to /install.386/vmlinuz vga=normal initrd=/install.386/initrd.gz --quiet acpi=off, etc
18:05<RJARRRPCGP>So what does that mean?
18:05<cesurasean>is that correct?
18:05<cesurasean>or do i just type linux acpi=off?
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18:05<RJARRRPCGP>Iam I required to recompile the later kernel then reboot into it first?
18:06<RJARRRPCGP>Is that why patching failed?
18:06<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean: Almost certainly that system doesn't have acpi, and having disabled it and still gotten the error makes it unlikely it has anything to do with linux mis-detecting that.
18:06<jordanm>RJARRRPCGP: I already told you why patching failed
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18:06<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean: You might want to try something like or puppy or dsl for hardware that old.
18:06<RJARRRPCGP>Was the file bad?
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18:06<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean: Vector is optimized for older, low capacity hardware.
18:07<RJARRRPCGP>The file name said in it.
18:07<jordanm>RJARRRPCGP: a) you gave the wrong patch command B) the patch was not intended for the source tree you have.
18:07<RJARRRPCGP>Just saying.
18:07<jordanm>RJARRRPCGP: well, apparently it doesn't match what is in the patch
18:07<cesurasean>PCI is complaining about a device,
18:07<cesurasean>is that device one of my ethernet cards,. maybe?
18:08<RJARRRPCGP>Just got suspicious that the file downloads from were corrupted.
18:08<cesurasean>why is PCI complaining about resource region 4, what does that mean?
18:08<RJARRRPCGP>Even though my DSL don't suck.
18:08<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean: Hard to figure out unless you could get a linux kernel running on it and map the PCI addresses.
18:08<RJARRRPCGP>And my router does NOT have a history of corrupting files.
18:08<xjjk>RJARRRPCGP: that's why supplies checksums
18:08<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean: You can always try yanking cards and seeing if one of them solves the problem.
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18:09<RJARRRPCGP>In fact, I just burned Debian Lenny earlier with zero corruption.
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18:09<jhutchins_lt>RJARRRPCGP: Far more than routers corrupt files, that's why we do checksummed compression and md5files.
18:09<cesurasean>I just pulled one of the cards.
18:09<xjjk>RJARRRPCGP: though, apparently, not on the front page anymore…
18:09<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean: How much ram?
18:10<RJARRRPCGP>Actually, I tried to verify the files and pgp hung.
18:10<cesurasean>300 something
18:10<jhutchins_lt>Hm. Definitely marginal.
18:10<RJARRRPCGP>And just kept blinking a cursor!
18:10<cesurasean>I have enough RAM. Windows 2003 runs fine on this machine, so it's not THAT slow.
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18:10<xjjk>cesurasean: just wondering, have you tried a Linux LiveCD
18:10<RJARRRPCGP>These commands were the problem:
18:11<RJARRRPCGP>gpg --keyserver --recv-keys 0x517D0F0E gpg --verify linux-<VERSION>.tar.bz2.sign
18:11<xjjk>just so we can rule out that it's not the computer
18:11<cesurasean>No, I haven't tried any linux live cds...
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18:11<xjjk>cesurasean: perhaps try Knoppix, Grml, Ubuntu
18:11<xjjk>Grml is the lightest and closest to Debian AFAIK
18:11<cesurasean>does Ubuntu have a livecd?
18:11<RJARRRPCGP>This failed:
18:11<RJARRRPCGP>gpg --keyserver --recv-keys 0x517D0F0E
18:12<RJARRRPCGP>gpg wouldn't close on it's own.
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18:12<dpkg>The Debian Live project provides pre-built Debian live system images and allows creation of your own. As of squeeze, the images can be installed with d-i. #debian-live on A preview of the squeeze live image is at
18:12<xjjk>cesurasean: yes
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18:12<RJARRRPCGP>It appears that is a bad server now. :(
18:13<RJARRRPCGP>Appears dead!
18:13<RJARRRPCGP>Thus, I was forced to Ctrl-C it.
18:13<RJARRRPCGP>Anyone else with that problem?
18:14<RJARRRPCGP>Sorry for all this replying.
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18:16<archpollux>what's happening with the nvidia-kernel-common package, it's not in sid
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18:17<jordanm>,versions nvidia-kernel-common
18:17<judd>nvidia-kernel-common -- etch/contrib: 20051028+1; lenny/contrib: 20080825+1; sid/contrib: 20100522+1; squeeze/contrib: 20100522+1
18:17<cesurasean>How do you install from the live cd to the hard drive ?
18:17<cesurasean>with debian live cd?
18:17<xjjk>RJARRRPCGP: mm, seems doesn't provide MD5/SHA1 checksums now
18:17<jordanm>archpollux: it is according to
18:18<RJARRRPCGP>Thanks for letting me know.
18:18<cesurasean>the debian livecd seems to load fine, from what it seems.
18:18<archpollux># apt-get install nvidia-kernel-dkms
18:18<RJARRRPCGP>This is why I HATE being forced to skip the checking, because of a bad key server. :(
18:18<archpollux>The following packages have unmet dependencies:
18:18<archpollux> nvidia-kernel-dkms: Depends: nvidia-kernel-common (>= 20100522) but it is not installable
18:18<jordanm>archpollux: apt-cache policy nvidia-kernel-common
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18:19<cesurasean>Is there a way to install debian from the livecd?
18:19<archpollux> Installed: (none)
18:19<archpollux> Candidate: (none)
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18:19<archpollux> Version table:
18:19<jordanm>cesurasean: using debootstrap
18:19<moldovean>jordanm, no
18:19<xjjk>cesurasean: er, did the LiveCD boot? there is, but the point of recommending the LiveCDs was to see if Linux booted at all
18:19<cesurasean>jordanm, how exactly do i use debootstrap? :(
18:19<jordanm>archpollux: hm, apt-cache showsrc nvidia-kernel-common
18:19<cesurasean>yes, the livecd boots fine.,.
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18:20<xjjk>cesurasean: hrm, OK... what kernel does it have?
18:20<xjjk>which LiveCD are you using?
18:20<jordanm>cesurasean: its similar to how you install gentoo. see the install guide
18:20<dpkg>The Debian Installation Guide for Lenny (5.0.5) can be found at . See also <errata> and <installer firmware>.
18:20<cesurasean>well, I said booting fine, it's at a different boot point, still not to command prompt yet.
18:20<cesurasean>still waiting
18:20<cesurasean>jordanm, yuck.
18:21<cesurasean>I'm thinking trying Ubuntu livecd might be more worth the trouble.
18:21<xjjk>cesurasean: how much RAM does the machine have? The Ubuntu one requires a bit
18:21<jordanm>cesurasean: i would recommend centos as the debian alternative...
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18:21<xjjk>it also tells you nothing during startup, so it's not particularly useful for diagnostic purposes
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18:22<jordanm>archpollux: did that show it provided by another package?
18:22<archpollux>no output
18:22<cesurasean>Is there an easy way to install from livecd?
18:22<cesurasean>it's still booting so i think it's going to boot up fine with the livecd version
18:22<moldovean>archpollux, add contrib to sources ?
18:22<xjjk>cesurasean: make sure it boots first
18:23<archpollux>moldovean: D'OH
18:23<xjjk>cesurasean: what bootcd are you using? and "easy" depends on your definition of "easy"
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18:23<xjjk>debootstrap isn't particularly easy to use, but it's a bit of an advanced tool so I don't see why it should be
18:23<jordanm>cesurasean: read the debootstrap section and descide for yourself
18:23<archpollux>works now, thanks a lot!
18:23<RJARRRPCGP>The kernel links to =epic fail!
18:23<cesurasean>xjjk, im not sure what version of the debian boot cd this is. i already had one burned.
18:24<RJARRRPCGP>I get what appears to be a parked domain!
18:24<xjjk>cesurasean: sorry, is this a Debian Installer CD or some other LiveCD?
18:24<RJARRRPCGP>I'm having crap luck!
18:25<xjjk>RJARRRPCGP: sorry, what were you trying to do again?
18:25<cesurasean>xjjk, debian live cd is what i wrote on it
18:25<xjjk>cesurasean: mmm, OK
18:25<xjjk>check what kernel it is
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18:25<cesurasean>PCI: Enabling device 000:00:07.1
18:25<xjjk>once it's booted, get a terminal and type 'uname -a'
18:26<cesurasean>seems it's enabling the device the installer could not
18:26<xjjk>RJARRRPCGP: why is it on
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18:27<RJARRRPCGP>Cannot download the kernel!
18:27<RJARRRPCGP>Bad domain!
18:27<xjjk>RJARRRPCGP: from where did you get that link?
18:27<xjjk>RJARRRPCGP: sorry, I missed discussion from earlier... why did you want 2.6.25, it's a bit older
18:28<RJARRRPCGP>I actually wouldn't want that. lol
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18:29<xjjk>RJARRRPCGP: what were you trying to do?
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18:29<moldovean>cesurasean, try that image
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18:30<moldovean>xjjk, RJARRRPCGP needs to compile a rt kernel ..
18:31<xjjk>I see. Why compile (over using one of the -rt kernels in Debian already), and why that old
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18:31<r0ger>what is -rt ?
18:31<r0ger>ahh kk
18:31<moldovean>where is debian -rt ?
18:32<xjjk>for people with low-latency requirements
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18:32<xjjk>moldovean: doh, looking at the wrong computer... -rt kernels are in Ubuntu, not Debian
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18:32<xjjk>sorry, my fault
18:33<moldovean>heh, no worry
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18:33<xjjk>hrm, though I'm surprised Debian doesn't appear to have a patch or some other "Debian" way of getting an rt kernel...
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18:34<moldovean>ask in #debian-kernel ..
18:35<xjjk>I'll leave to RJARRRPCGP to do that
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18:36<RJARRRPCGP>Actually, I would like the latest kernel. (I was just testing to see if any success with an ealier one)
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18:40<jhutchins_lt>RJARRRPCGP: You can save a lot of time kernel shoping if you read the changelogs.
18:41<cesurasean>ok, it seems the livecd stopped working at "squashfs: version 3.1
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18:42<cesurasean>the machine hasn't been doing anything since that point
18:42<xjjk>I don't know anything about -rt... is their website
18:42-!-DuroDePeinar [~DuroDePei@] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
18:42<xjjk>they appear to only distribute patches?
18:43<xjjk>cesurasean: so, did it ever finish booting? you've been vague with answering that question
18:44<cesurasean>it hasn't finished booting. it's at "squashfs: version 3.1"
18:44<xjjk>that seems like an odd place to stop
18:44<xjjk>cesurasean: try another LiveCD?
18:44<cesurasean>xjjk, im downloading Ubuntu server edition right now
18:44<cesurasean>going to try that, since it's similar to Debian
18:44<xjjk>the open unanswered question is "does linux boot on this machine at all"
18:44<xjjk>cesurasean: it's up to you, I don't like Ubuntu server edition that much
18:45<xjjk>not so that much that there's anything wrong with it, though
18:45<cesurasean>so it's possible linux won't run at all?
18:45<cesurasean>im going to try mepis, and knoppix then
18:45<cesurasean>to see if i can even boot linux
18:45<xjjk>but I can't say what is or isn't possible
18:46<xjjk>you have something to work off of when you know at least one modern Linux boots on it
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18:49<xjjk>cesurasean: also, were you tied to running lenny? moldovean recommended you try a Debian squeeze/testing installer
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18:49<xjjk>which isn't a bad idea if you're fine with running squeeze
18:49<moldovean>cesurasean, a P2 + ~300 MB ram is power consuming only , 50 bucks get much better machine
18:49<xjjk>oh, wow
18:50<xjjk>yeh, you can get a dual-core atom machine with 2 GB ram for some $200
18:50<xjjk>perf will probably be less but guaranteed it'll use 1/10th the power
18:51<xjjk>mine uses 30 W with 4 GB and a 2x 250 GB RAID
18:51<cesurasean>does lenny have scsi cdrom support?
18:52<Efreak>gbp: We're bringing oil to American shores
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18:54<xjjk>cesurasean: more than likely
18:56<jhutchins_lt>xjjk: Actually, somebody just posted an article about building a C2Duo system for under $200.
18:56<xjjk>cesurasean: there you og
18:56<jhutchins_lt>On-board video, 1G ram.
18:56<jhutchins_lt>xjjk: Oh, wait, no, it was an AMD dual-core.
18:57<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean1: Ugh, ubntu is going to be worse if anything.
18:57<xjjk>I used a recycled PSU, case, and HDDs, but my atom system was some $200
18:57<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean1: It might supporr _newer_ hardware a little better than Debian out-of-the-box, but definitely not older.
18:58<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean1: As I suggested earlier, there are distributions like vector linux that are aimed at running on older hardware like P2's.
18:58<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean1: vector, puppy, Damn Small Linux.
18:58<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean1: knoppix is a pretty good live CD for older hardware.
18:59<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean1: You might just want to take the ubuntu CD and run memtest on it.
18:59<jhutchins_lt>cesurasean1: Reseat all cards and ram modules.
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19:01<jhutchins_lt>,2845,2366841,00.asp <- $200 Linux PC.
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19:03<jhutchins_lt>xjjk: I think going to a newer release is the wrong direction for older hardware. I might suggest etch or even sarge, but not squeeze, and it's really better to go with a current distro that's meant for older hardware.
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19:03<xjjk>jhutchins_lt: you can make either argument
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19:04<xjjk>if the problem is a regression, it may be solved in a newer release
19:04<xjjk>likewise, if it's a regression, it may not be solved in a newer release that it's so old no one cares
19:05<jhutchins_lt>xjjk: Going with a release that's contemporary with the hardware can be a good bet though.
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19:05<jhutchins_lt>xjjk: It can at least give you a starting point.
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19:06<moldovean>jhutchins_lt, linux usually is behind hardware ..
19:07<jhutchins_lt>moldovean: Better all the time though.
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19:08<jhutchins_lt>Hm. I need ultra-scsi support and I'd love to re-use my high-end pci soundblaster on my next box, better remember to check for slots.
19:08<moldovean>lastest gadgets + proprietary still missing
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19:10<cesurasean>Is Damn Small Linux based on debian?
19:11<moldovean>google it
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19:13<cesurasean>I can't even get knoppix to boot.
19:13<cesurasean>or mepis
19:13<cesurasean>is it even possible to run linux on a poweredge 2300?
19:13<moldovean>google it
19:14<moldovean>cesurasean, we are not your google 'readers'
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19:17<cesurasean1>It seems Debian 2.1 will run on this machine
19:18<cesurasean1>what version of debian is 2.1?
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19:19<cesurasean1>I've read a report where someone says Slink 2.1 was capable with this server.
19:19<dpkg>Slink (Debian GNU/Linux 2.1) was released March 1999. It is no longer supported. Ask me about <slink->potato>.
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19:20<cesurasean1>Does that mean Woody might work as well?
19:20<cesurasean1>I would hate to install Slink. That seems far too old.
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19:29<petemc>cesurasean1: theres a debian dell iso that uses a 2.4 kernel that will work, you'll need to be careful with your upgrade path if you go that route tho
19:31<pavi>any commandline programs which allow me to easily burn iso images ?
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19:34<pavi>petemc, I used burn which in turn was using wodim which gave me some errors My dvd drive is connected via iDE
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19:36<abrotman>pavi: wodim isn't installed ?
19:36<pavi>/dev/scd0 is my dvd drive but it looks for /dev/cdrom
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19:36<abrotman>oh, wait .. the error isn't very specific :)
19:37<pavi> wodim --devices wodim: Overview of accessible drives (1 found) :dev='/dev/scd0' rwrw-- : 'HL-DT-ST' 'DVD-RAM GH22NP20'
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19:38<petemc>pavi: ls -la /dev/cdrom
19:39<pavi>ls: cannot access /dev/cdrom: No such file or directory
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19:40<petemc>ln -s /dev/scd0 /dev/cdrom
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19:41<pavi>ok I am thinking of the same :)
19:41<abrotman>can't you specify the device instead ?
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19:41<petemc>you can with dev=
19:42<abrotman>so what's the ln for? it's only temporary
19:42<pavi>yes it worked . thanks folks
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19:42*pavi is burning linux mint cd for his newbie cousin
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19:43<petemc>udev should probably have created the symlink
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19:44<pavi>yes why wasn't the symlink created . Has it got anything to do with me not installing gnome or kde
19:45<pavi>I am using debian testing
19:45<petemc>its created for me
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19:45<pavi>its amd 64 architecture
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19:51<cesurasean>Wow. The Squeeze installer loaded after quite some time!
19:51<cesurasean>using acpi=off, ofcourse.
19:51<cesurasean>This machine is so darn slow that it's hard to tell what's going on, I guess..
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20:19<pavi>commandline dvd writing tools ?
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20:23<xjjk>pavi: I like cdrskin
20:24<xjjk>it's a CLI frontend to all the other tools
20:24<pavi>xjjk, thanks would look it up
20:25<xjjk>pavi: cdrskin dev=/dev/cdrom blah.iso is the minimum I use
20:25<xjjk>add a -v if you want to know a little bit more info
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20:25<pavi>xjjk, I want to burn some data into a dvd
20:25<Lantizia>Anyone know what the max length a unix username can be?
20:25<xjjk>pavi: ISOs or arbitrary files?
20:26<pavi>just arbitary files . not iso's
20:26<xjjk>pavi: I dont know of a good CLI tool for that, other than mastering ISOs manually
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20:26<xjjk>I usually give up and use KDE's k3b
20:27<xjjk>pavi: ISO mastering tool is genisoimage
20:27<xjjk>its a bit of a headache to use
20:29<pavi>xjjk, for cds I used 'burn' and it was ok . I just burnt an iso ...was wondering if the same applies for dvds as the man doesnt mention dvd at all
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20:29<cesurasean1>xjjt, can you believe the Squeeze installer is moving faster than the Etch installer did?
20:30<cesurasean1>It seems like Squeeze might actually install onto this PE2300.
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20:31<xjjk>cesurasean1: good luck
20:31<moldovean>pavi, try and see
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20:31<xjjk>pavi: with burn, don't know... what I like about cdrskin is that it automatically figures out those details for you
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20:34<cesurasean1>xjjk, like you said. i don't know until I try. :)
20:34<cesurasean1>I'm willing to spare some time for another squeeze box. :)
20:35<xjjk>cesurasean1: this machine only has 300 MB of RAM? what were you going to do with it
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20:46<cesurasean1>a dev box, just to build websites and such on
20:47<cesurasean1>nothing too amazing.
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21:44<neosmatrix>Hi, after starting kde, my 3 harddisk with raid 5 powerdown and up every ~5 minutes, I used Gnome the last two days and my raid is running
21:44<neosmatrix>fine. Today I updated again all packages from debian unstable including KDE 4.4.5-1 and removed all gnome related programms. but the
21:44<neosmatrix>problem still exists after starting kde again. could anyone guess where the problem is? I found some nepomuk errors which say that theres
21:44<neosmatrix>no connection to the dbus server in .xsession-errors. I don't know where I could search for an error message.
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22:36<mr_4slk4>hi everybody
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22:41<xjjk>neosmatrix: what's the problem exactly? the disks spinning up and down too often?
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22:42<neosmatrix>yeah every ~1-5 mins, an endless loop, but only if I start kde
22:42*abrotman blames kde
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22:42<neosmatrix>xjjk: all three harddisk spin up and donw together
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22:43<abrotman>hardware raid?
22:43<xjjk>it's extremely unlikely that's because of a DE...
22:43<neosmatrix>software raid
22:43<xjjk>well, actually
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22:43<xjjk>perhaps KDE organizes its disk writes so that it writes less often, and the disks go to sleep
22:44<xjjk>and GNOME and the associated apps write to disk all the time
22:45<neosmatrix>hmm should I fill out a bug report somewhere ? I don't know which info is important :/
22:45<xjjk>what's the bug?
22:46<xjjk>your RAID shouldn't spin down so quickly
22:46<xjjk>that's something you should adjust
22:46<neosmatrix>I don't know even the bug, but it is pretty annoying that I can't use kde anymore
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22:47<neosmatrix>(sorry for my english)
22:47<xjjk>it's fine
22:47<xjjk>neosmatrix: mm, there's a way to setup the kernel so that it logs what all your disk accesses are
22:47<xjjk>neosmatrix: have you tried powertop?
22:47<neosmatrix>xjjk: hmm no not yet
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22:50<neosmatrix>xjjk: could you give me a hint, where to find that option, maybee 'ext4 debugging support'?
22:50<xjjk>neosmatrix: it's a sysctl
22:50<xjjk>nothing to do with the FS
22:51<xjjk>echo 1> /proc/sys/vm/block_dump
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22:52<xjjk>it's going to dump a *lot* into syslog
22:52<xjjk>it's a lot easier to use powertop
22:52<neosmatrix>xjjk: ok I will try
22:53<neosmatrix>thx so far, I must restart my linux :)
22:53<xjjk>you don't need to restart after enabling that
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22:54<neosmatrix>no but I recompiled a fresh new kernel
22:54<xjjk>I see
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23:00<jduvall>I have a question on the source.list
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23:14<dragonlord2598>i need help
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23:17<dragonlord2598>i cant connect to the internet
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23:19<xjjk>dragonlord2598: what's the problem?
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23:28<neosmatrix>xjjk: this is what I got in syslog after starting kde: this must
23:28<neosmatrix>have something to do with my /home directory which is /dev/md10
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23:29<xjjk>very little writing on md10
23:30<xjjk>what about GNOME?
23:30<neosmatrix>then I must install gnome again :/
23:31<xjjk>neosmatrix: if there's a bug to report here, it'd be in GNOME
23:31<xjjk>doing so many disk writes that it'd prevent your disk from sleeping
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23:31<xjjk>neosmatrix: I'd figure out how to configure your drives to take longer to sleep
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23:33<neosmatrix>xjjk: but why only kde does this :( I think I must install gnome again
23:34<xjjk>neosmatrix: I just explained, something in GNOME is not letting the disk sleep
23:34<xjjk>that's a bug with that app in GNOME
23:34*xjjk should probably disclaim that he's pretty well-rooted in the KDE camp and doesn't like GNOME
23:34<xjjk>there were *many* such bugs in KDE3, most have been cleaned up in KDE4
23:37<neosmatrix>that would be easier to me to explain it in german :/ I still cannot understand why my system
23:37<neosmatrix>runs without anything going to sleep without any desktop and in gnome, but kde does that
23:37<neosmatrix>after 2 seconds in the splash screen
23:38<neosmatrix>and I hate this win irc which splits my sentences into several lines
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23:56<neosmatrix>should I watch for something special in powertop if the harddisks spin up/down ?
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---Logclosed Thu Jul 29 00:00:22 2010