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#debian IRC Logs for 2010-10-12

---Logopened Tue Oct 12 00:00:42 2010
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00:14<gnushitweasel>Is there a dedicated channel anywhere for GNU/kFreeBSD?
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00:15<franki^>In 0.17 seconds Google told me it was #debian-kbsd here on OFTC
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00:16<jeremyb>you're fast!
00:16<GhostlyDeath>franki^: Is that counting time it took to launch a browser, go to, type the box in the text and press enter/button?
00:17<jeremyb>GhostlyDeath: i think he used google straight from IRC :P
00:17<franki^>The browser was already open, and I have a search box, but no, I didn't count the alt+tab or typing time :P
00:17<franki^>I just read from "About 3,390 results (0.17 seconds)"
00:17<GhostlyDeath>Distance from google to your PC and the time delay of network traffic and compression, etc.
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00:18<franki^>Yeah, that's probably pretty significant, the Internet is like swimming in treacle here :)
00:19<franki^>But anyway, I gave him his answer and hopefully he felt ashamed that he could've googled it himself!
00:19<GhostlyDeath>Anyone else here encounter libpam-encfs freezes when logging in? Freezes as in it just doesn't work when logging in and if anyone tries to obtain info on the mount point or stat the directory the process hangs forever?
00:19<GhostlyDeath>It worked 15 days ago
00:20<GhostlyDeath>and I noticed it stopped working 4 days ago
00:20<GhostlyDeath>The last message was something along the lines of: "checking for nameio"
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00:25<jeremyb>franki^: he only stayed in the chanel for ~60 secs and then /quit
00:25<jeremyb>channel* (kbsd)
00:26<jeremyb>(and didn't say anything)
00:28<franki^>jeremyb: Interesting :s
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00:29<franki^>jeremyb: Well, maybe he just couldn't get to sleep because he was worried that there might not be an IRC channel for Debian GNU/kFreeBSD :)
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00:36<GhostlyDeath>Or maybe he wanted to risk the chance of being scolded by asking such a question which was easily googled
00:36<GhostlyDeath>Unless he already googled it and failed in his keywords
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00:37<MrNo>would latest distro of debian be able to run without a desktop nicely on an old pc (533Mhz celeron, 512MB RAM, 80GB hd) as a LAMP for personal dev use? Or should I stick with what it's got (Sarge). Anyone know difference in requirements
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00:37<GhostlyDeath>MrNo: probably would run better due to an enhanced kernel
00:37<GhostlyDeath>Runs fine on my P3 550MHz with... 192MB RAM
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00:38<dondelelcaro>MrNo: yes, it'll run. 512M is no problem.
00:38<MrNo>GhostlyDeath: Sweet, any chance of being able to do a dist-upgrade from sarge?
00:38<dondelelcaro>MrNo: the main issue is memory requirements of apt, which is right around 48M now or so
00:38<GhostlyDeath>MrNo: Just don't use any desktop such as GNOME or KDE
00:38<dondelelcaro>MrNo: you need to go through etch first
00:38<GhostlyDeath>MrNo: How much disk space?
00:38<GhostlyDeath>yeah, go through etch then to lenny then to squeeze?
00:38<GhostlyDeath>You could use swap
00:38<MrNo>GhostlyDeath: 80GB
00:39<jordanm>squeeze is still in testing
00:39<GhostlyDeath>oh yeah...
00:39<GhostlyDeath>to both
00:39<blarson>Debian no longer works on a 386. It requires a 486.
00:39<GhostlyDeath>Celeron is a 686 right?
00:39<jordanm>a 533mhz celeron will certainly be > 486
00:40<jordanm>GhostlyDeath: AFAIK, all > pentium chips are i486
00:40<GhostlyDeath>Pentium is 586
00:40<GhostlyDeath>P3 is 686
00:40<blarson>P2 is 686
00:40<jordanm>sorry, I mean > i486
00:40<jordanm>so was pentium pro
00:40<blarson>Some via chips don't do full 686
00:41<jordanm>I am not familar with those
00:41<GhostlyDeath>MrNo: How much swap you got?
00:41<GhostlyDeath>MrNo: In the event that you do run out of memory, swap will be slow but it will work
00:42<MrNo>GhostlyDeath: let me check...
00:42<blarson>via is mainly used in embedded systems that want x86.
00:43<MrNo>GhostlyDeath: 556MB swap
00:44<jordanm>my 512mb LAMP/git/irc box doesn't have any swap.. never gets to that point, but did have problems before I upgraded from 256
00:44<MrNo>hmm, my sarge is running slowly, but only when establishing connections on anything other than port 80
00:45<jordanm>sarge... really should be upgraded
00:45<jordanm>unless you need to support a legacy application not attached to the internet :)
00:46<MrNo>nope, just been lazy :D
00:46*blarson needs to upgrade an etch system.
00:47<Hydroxide>blarson: my sympathies :) and hi.
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01:29<jpinx-eeepc>blarson: just follow the dpkg guide - it worked fine for me
01:30<jpinx-eeepc>!tell blarson about etch->lenny
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01:31<jpinx-eeepc>blarson: the hardest part might be getting etch right up-to-date
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04:19<tpo>my boot process stalls when loading a certain module (ipmi_si)
04:20<tpo>is there a way to stop the boot process after initrd and get into a shell?
04:20<tpo>(I don't have an external CD drive here)
04:20<OdyX>tpo: append init=/bin/sh at the end of the initrd call in Grub
04:21<tpo>OdyX, that doesn't work, get's to "Kernel Panic tried to kill init"
04:21<OdyX>tpo: did you try the safe boot '
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04:23*tpo is searching the net ...
04:23<tpo>how do I get into safe boot? ...
04:24<tpo>OdyX, I only have single user mode to choose from ...
04:25<OdyX>try that.
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04:25<tpo>OdyX, same result
04:26<tpo>it stops when loading the ipmi_si module
04:26<tpo>when going single user with init=/bin/sh I end up with "Kernel Panic tried to kill init"
04:28<tpo>:-/ help
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04:33<ComradeHaz`>Morning all. Is it really correct that logcheck includes trivial cron-apt stuff as shown here:
04:36-!-mode/#debian [+l 394] by debhelper
04:36<ComradeHaz`>Logcheck Version: 1.3.13
04:37<kop>ComradeHaz`: Dunno. It might need configuration. See also the swatch package.
04:38<ComradeHaz`>Well, yeah, if I could figure out reg exp's I could sort it myself, but the fact that it doesn't do it already to my mind is a bug
04:39<tpo>is there anything comparable in Debian to ?
04:39<tpo>I.e. the possibility to escape to a shell from initrd?
04:40<cthuluh>tpo: maybe. did you try something like ipmi_sa=no on the kernel commandline?
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04:42<tpo>so break=init does not work
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04:48<tpo>cthuluh, no that doesn't work either. And I have tried as well "disablemodule=impi_si" and also ipmi_si.force_kipmid=0
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04:48<tpo>wow, however break=top works, yeah!
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04:51<jeremiah1>grub is giving me problems.
04:51<jeremiah1>It boots into a black screen with the word "GRUB"
04:51<jeremiah1>and I can drop into a shell.
04:51<jeremiah1>Is there a fix?
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04:54<tpo>jeremiah1, you get dropped into grub's shell right?
04:54<tpo>try typing help there
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04:57<jeremiah1>I don't know that I did drop into GRUB's shell
04:58<jeremiah1>I say that because the grub shell allows me to use a command to get a prompt
04:58<jeremiah1>But this doesn't. It is just GRUB in all caps
04:59<jeremiah1>I think it is refit being confused by the MBR
04:59<jeremiah1>I've gtpsync'd but no love
05:01<jm_>themill: I talked to you about this once before - is there really no simple way to get pyxplot to handle time-value style graphs?
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05:07<tpo>jeremiah1, probably reinstall grub?
05:07<tpo>rescue cd blah blah ... same as I should be doing...
05:07<jeremiah1>Yeah. I've done that.
05:07<jeremiah1>Sadly, to no effect.
05:07<jeremiah1>I'll try and wipe the partition and re-create it.
05:08<tpo>jeremiah1, you could also try lilo as a boot loader, if it copes better
05:09<jeremiah1>Yeah, I did.
05:10<jeremiah1>Sadly, this machine is from Apple.
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05:10<jeremiah1>And they know you'll want to install Linux, and they make it really, really hard.
05:10<jeremiah1>There partitioning tools are terrible
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05:30<spilak>I have a little problem
05:30<spilak>i have got a 50Gb ubuntu one account
05:30<spilak>i would like to change just 20Gb, but it's inpossible
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05:30<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
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06:07<zeus>Hi all, can anyone help me please ? I need a keyring for opensuse repository.
06:07<fhh>:( MailScanner is remove from squeeze...
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06:08<zeus>running "apt-get update" obviously do not fix the problem
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06:10<zeus>fhh: probably it can be backported
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06:14<fhh>I espect sincerely, this is a very useful tool...
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06:15<ComradeHaz`>fhh Version: 4.79.11-2 shows up in my repo's. I'm running unstable...
06:16<jm_>!why is mailscanner not in testing
06:16<dpkg>mailscanner is not in testing for the reasons listed in
06:16<gsimmons>zeus: The key that repository (Release.key) in available from the same location ; /msg dpkg apt-secure
06:17<jm_>doh, not even in lenny
06:17<jm_>(other than backports)
06:17<ComradeHaz`>jm, install it from unstable if you're desperate
06:17<jm_>not me no
06:17<ComradeHaz`>sorry, fhh
06:18<fhh>unstable in production... is it a good idear ?
06:18<jm_>fhh: the package is also available in lenny-backports
06:18<ComradeHaz`>*shrugs* depends how mission criticle your machine is. I run full unstable on my servers
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06:20<fhh>yes it is... it's seem the best think to do
06:20<fhh>ComradeHaz`: not so difficult to maintain ?
06:21<ComradeHaz`>only occasional irritation is dependancy issues when trying to upgrade
06:22<fhh>:D it's bad for my stress ... so I try backported version
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06:32<willemb>Hi. What do I use if I cannot afford splunk and phpconlog is just too ugly?
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06:58<bremner_>willemb: you might have better luck if you specify the functionality you need; I don't know how many here are familiar with splunk (aside from the ads)
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07:06<lxuser>does the emacs23 pkg include CEDET?
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07:09<willemb>bremner: thanks. I want a single view into syslog on all 1300 servers, searchable and filterab le
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07:10<babilen>lxuser: It looks as if CEDET is packaged seperately (cedet-common, cedet-contrib)
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07:12<lxuser>babilen, it used to be a separate package, but upstream emacs integrates it since 23.2
07:13<r0ger>is there something similar to `tr` that will allow me to replace 1 character with multiple characters?
07:13<r0ger>i need to replace & with And
07:13<jm_>r0ger: sed
07:14<r0ger>kk ty
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07:18<babilen>lxuser: Ah, ok. I am not a member of your church and now little about Emacs, but the cedet-common package predepends on emacs22, so I would assume that emacs23+ comes with it integrated.
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07:20<babilen>r0ger: What is wrong with tr? (Just curious)
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07:23<r0ger>i can't get tr to replace 1 char with more than 1 char
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07:23<r0ger>tr '&' 'And' returns A
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07:25<rpetre>r0ger: use sed for that
07:25<rpetre>tr just replaces on a character basis, afaik
07:26<rpetre>oh, it's been said above. ignore me :)
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07:27<r0ger>yeah i got it working with sed
07:28<r0ger>i have one more question
07:28<r0ger>in a bash script, how can i match ( and ) in a case statement?
07:28<r0ger>do i escape with \?
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07:37<cahoot>could try #bash on freenode
07:37<megustav12>hi! is there a way to lookup what libraries a binary is trying to load?
07:38<jm_>megustav12: sure
07:39<megustav12>sweet. so what command and what package?
07:39<cahoot>megustav12: ldd might be what you want
07:40<jm_>ldd or if you want more advanced stuff, 'man' and read about LD_DEBUG
07:40<megustav12>ok this apparently isn't what I'm looking for
07:41<megustav12>it's saying it's not a dynamic executable
07:41<jm_>so it isn't
07:41<megustav12>let me explain. I have an lxc container that is barebones and want to run half-life server on it
07:42<themill>,info makejail
07:42<judd>Package makejail (admin, optional) in lenny/i386: Automatically create chroot jails for programs. Version: 0.0.5-7; Size: 28.7k; Installed: 164k
07:42<megustav12>but for some reason I can't run the utility that fetches the gamefiles etc
07:42<jm_>it's probably statically linked
07:42<megustav12><judd> Package makejail (admin, optional) in lenny/i386: Automatically create chroot jails for programs. Version: 0.0.5-7; Size: 28.7k; Installed: 164k
07:42<megustav12>$ ./hldsupdatetool.bin
07:42<megustav12>-bash: ./hldsupdatetool.bin: No such file or directory
07:43<megustav12>this is what I'm getting
07:43<megustav12>I did chmod +x and it does run on another server (of the non-lxc kind)
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07:45<jm_>might be unsupported executable format, fs mounted with noexec etc.
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07:53<mjt>most likely missing interpreter
07:53<mjt>in other cases the error message should be different
07:55<mjt>(wild guess: 64bit userspace without /lib32/ stuff, trying to run 32bit binary)
07:57<mjt>hldsupdatetool.bin: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
07:58<megustav12>ok how can I quickly check if the system is 64-bit or 32-bit?
07:58<mjt>you already checked ;)
07:58<megustav12>nvm. it looks like the host system is 64 bit
07:58<mjt>you need /lib/ to run that binary
07:59<mjt>which is a part of some lib..32.. package - don't remember
07:59<mjt>apt-cache search lib 32
07:59<megustav12>about that. how can it associate /lib/foo with a package
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08:00<mjt>,versions ~
08:00<judd>Sorry, no package named '~' was found in i386.
08:00<mjt>,versions ia32-libs
08:00<judd>Sorry, no package named 'ia32-libs' was found in i386.
08:00<mjt>megustav12: dpkg -S
08:01<megustav12>running now. let's see what happens
08:01<mjt>running what? :)
08:01<jm_>hehe it searches i386
08:01<megustav12>apt-get for 32bit libs
08:02<themill>,versions ia32-libs --arch amd64
08:02<judd>Package ia32-libs on amd64 -- etch: 1.19; lenny: 2.7+lenny1; squeeze: 20090808; sid: 20100919
08:02<megustav12>yes! it lives! thank you all for helping me!
08:02<mjt>what's the "proper" way to run some 32bit X application on squeeze64?
08:03<mjt>only chroot or is there some other way?
08:03<jm_>ia32-libs include X libs too
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08:04<mjt>ia32-libs is a meta-package actually, it does not includes anything
08:05<jm_>it does in lenny, but I see you asked about squeeze, sorry
08:05<mjt>in lenny too
08:05<Torsten_W>in squeeze to
08:05<mjt>there's no 32bit x libs packaged - neither for lenny nor for squeeze
08:05<Torsten_W>and ia32.libs is not a metapackage
08:05<jm_>it's not meta package in lenny
08:06<jm_>I am nto sure where you are gettign this from, and it includes shitloads of X related libs
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08:06<mjt>ok, in lenny it's not meta.
08:06<jm_>I am running several 32bit apps just fine - the only thing that doesn't work for me is opengl stuff since I didn't manage to build 32bit nvidia glx packages
08:06<mjt>still no X
08:06<Torsten_W>in squeeze its also not a meta
08:07<Torsten_W>btw, ia32-libs-gtk is needed too
08:07<jm_>for some apps yes
08:07<mjt>maybe i'm using some different squeeze :)
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08:09<themill>if you want much amusement, "apt-get source ia32-libs" and then cry.
08:09<jm_>yeah did that once :)
08:10<jm_>when I foolishly thought I need a newer version
08:11<mjt>ok, now i see where i were wrong
08:11<mjt>there's no ia64-libs for x86
08:12<mjt>that's what i were using all the time... running 32bit userspace on a 64bit kernel.
08:12<mjt>hence the wrong conclusion there's no X libs and other stuff.
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08:13<jm_>makes sense ;)
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08:17<mjt>umh. this is a fantastic package.
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08:51<dutchfish>hi, can someone explain to me why in debian/squeeze/x86_64 (this might relate to others as well, i have not checked) sudo getcap -r * gives getcap: invalid option -- 'n'
08:51<jm_>try expanding your command line
08:52<dutchfish>while sudo getcap -r . works as expected
08:52<dutchfish>jm_: can you explain what you mean?
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08:52<jm_>dutchfish: which shell are you using?
08:53<dutchfish>jm_: squeeze/dash
08:53<jm_>dutchfish: uhh no idea if dash can do this, other shells can
08:53<dutchfish>jm_: well i can run it in bash as well, hold on
08:53<dutchfish>jm_: same
08:54<jm_>dutchfish: in bash type: sudo getcap -r *<ctrl-x><*> and take a look at the command as it comes out
08:54<jm_><> is key to press
08:54<weasel>echo *
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08:54<weasel>hmm. or not :)
08:55<weasel>or just ls
08:55<jm_>yeah should be the same
08:55<weasel>jm_: well, if there's a -n that might not play well with echo :)
08:55<jm_>weasel: ahh good point
08:55<weasel>ls is probably the simpliest
08:56<dutchfish>jm_: i get a list (without cr/lf) of all the file sin thta dir
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08:56<jm_>dutchfish: yes, check the list - see the hint about '-n' above
08:56<dutchfish>jm_: i get a list (without cr/lf) of all the files in that dir*
08:56<weasel>dutchfish: if you use 'ls', is there a file called -n?
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08:58<dutchfish>weasel: ls -la | grep "\-n" gives zilch
08:58<weasel>and 'ls -- -*'?
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08:59<dutchfish>weasel: same, zilch
08:59<rpetre>or -something
09:00<rpetre>with all the letters preceding n as valid getcap arguments :)
09:00<rpetre>what does echo * say?
09:00<dutchfish>rpetre: all the filenames (without cr/lf) in that dir
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09:01<weasel>so where does the -n come from?
09:01<rpetre>well, yeah, but anything suspicious?
09:01<dutchfish>nope, why would i make a file like -n ?
09:01<rpetre>do you get it in all directories?
09:01<rpetre>is getcap an alias?
09:01<weasel>and why does echo not produce a newline?
09:02<rpetre>weasel: it doesn't
09:02<rpetre>* expands to a space separated list of filenames
09:02<dutchfish>rpetre: /sbin/getcap
09:02<rpetre>dutchfish: /sbin/getcap -r * does the same?
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09:02<weasel>rpetre: dutchfish says echo gives him a list of filenames but no newline.
09:02<weasel>rpetre: so this indicates there's a -n somewhere, doesn't it
09:03<rpetre>echo -- *
09:03<weasel>or dutchfish is lying about the cr/lf thing just to throw us off-track
09:03<rpetre>i read it as "as opposed to ls -1"
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09:03<dutchfish>rpetre: sudo /sbin/getcap -r * gaves the same, ie invalid option -- 'n'
09:04<rpetre>ok, what about echo -- * ?
09:04<weasel>paste the output of '/bin/ls'
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09:04<dutchfish>rpetre: that outputs again all files without (cr/lf)
09:05<rpetre>if you move to another direstory, it does the same?
09:05<rpetre>('scuse my typo)
09:05<dutchfish>rpetre: i rather not, the list is massive and from a home dir with personal stuff
09:05<rpetre>i wasn't the one asking for the pastebin :)
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09:06<weasel>ls -- *" -"*
09:06<rpetre>go to a different dir and see if you have the same thing
09:06<weasel>what does that say?
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09:06<dutchfish>in another dir (/usr/bin) getcap -r * works as expected
09:07<rpetre>ok, so it's a file in there
09:07<rpetre>i wanted to make sure there isn't a sudoers magic or an alias
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09:07<dutchfish>i gues not, now
09:07<rpetre>try getcap -r "*"
09:08<weasel>rpetre: that won't expand * at all
09:08<rpetre>it would
09:08<weasel>in what cases?
09:08<dutchfish>* (No such file or directory)
09:08<rpetre>to a list of quoted stuff
09:08<weasel>no, it won't
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09:08<weasel>it will quote the *
09:08<weasel>Tue 15:06:08 <weasel> ls -- *" -"*
09:08<rpetre>ok, i confused it with $* then, i guess
09:09<rpetre>yup, that what i was looking for :)
09:10<dutchfish>rpetre: i have found it, stupid me, its a dangling symlink called " n", after removing it the problem is gone
09:10<dutchfish>but why it names it "-n" not " n"
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09:11<weasel>how broken
09:11<dutchfish>this might bite others as well
09:12<dutchfish>rpetre: weasel, jm_, thanks for all the effort !
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09:13<rpetre>i can't reproduce it
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09:14<rpetre>it has to be in conjunction with something else
09:14<dutchfish>rpetre: fyi, this is on squeeze/x86_64 and 2.6.32-5
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09:14<rpetre>i have squeeze x86, but i'll try on 64bit too
09:15<dutchfish>rpetre: libcap2-bin: /sbin/getcap | 1:2.19-3
09:16<dutchfish>rpetre: i will hunt for others and if i can reproduce it, report it as a bug
09:16<dutchfish>thanks again
09:17<rpetre>i still can't reproduce it on my machine
09:17<rpetre>same libcap
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09:17<rpetre>i still believe there was something else thre too
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09:17<dutchfish>could be
09:17<dutchfish>i will delve into it
09:17<rpetre>look careful at what echo -- * said
09:18<rpetre>and what was around that " n"
09:19<shiznatix>Hi. I have vncserver setup just fine on my Lenny install, no problems. But I want to be able to connect to screen:0 to control an already logged in users session live. How do I go about this?
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09:19<rpetre>shiznatix: x11vnc
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09:20<Xeross>Can someone give me the instructions again on compiling an experimental source package in a lower version of debian
09:20<dutchfish>rpetre: if i create a symlink " n" and make it dangling, it isnt reproduceable, fyi, so there must be something else too it
09:21<shiznatix>rpetre should I remove vncserver first?
09:21<rpetre>shiznatix: different software
09:21<pipe>can't you run both?
09:22<rpetre>you don't need vnc server for that purpose only, x11vnc spawns a server itself. you can still have both, they don't conflict
09:22<rpetre>(except maybe the same default port)
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09:23<shiznatix>Ok. Do I need to start x11vnc after the user logs in or can I just install it via ssh and connect from windows with TinyVNC?
09:24<twb>In /etc/network/interfaces pre/post-up/down lines, can I refer to variables like $IFNAME (or whatever it is), as I can in pre-up.d/foo ?
09:25<twb>(And it's $IFACE)
09:25<mjt>iface eth-dmz inet static phy eth-tls vid 2 pre-up [ -d /sys/class/net/$IF_PHY/ ] || ifup $IF_PHY pre-up ip link add link $IF_PHY name $IFACE type vlan id $IF_VID
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09:26<twb>OK, now I'm not sure which $foo I want
09:26<rpetre>shiznatix: you can run it remotely, if you are root you can give it the -display :0 argument (iirc) to connect to that display
09:26<twb>Here's what I have now:
09:26<twb>post-up ip a add dev unmanaged brd + || : # FOR MIGRATION
09:26<twb>unmanaged should become $IFACE or $IF_PHY, I think
09:27<rpetre>careful that this exposes that display to whoever connects to it, so you may want to set up some auth as well
09:27<mjt>$IF_PHY is specific to my example
09:27<twb>mjt: okey dokey
09:27<twb>rpetre: don't forget to do the MIT cookie dance (if necessary)
09:27<mjt>because it defines 'phy eth-tls', and every define becomes a IF_FOO variable
09:27<mjt>(ditto for vid and $IF_VID)
09:28<mjt>man interfaces
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09:28<rpetre>twb: in my experience it's not necessary (though i connect as the same user by ssh)
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09:31<victor>how to delete all the lines with a certain pattern in it with Vim?
09:31<twb>rpetre: ssh automatically does the cookie dance if xauth is installed on both ends
09:31<twb>rpetre: and you use -X, of course
09:32<rpetre>of course :)
09:32<twb>It makes it very confusing if you don't install xauth and can't see why it isn't working
09:32<rpetre>victor: :%g/pattern/d
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09:32<twb>Incidentally, is there a better way than post-up and pre-down rules to add additional addresses (and the associated routes) to an interface?
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09:33<rpetre>twb: yeah, i know a bit about xauth and xauthority and -ac, i was quite glad when i discovered magic happens ;)
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09:34<shiznatix>Is there any way to pipe sound over the VNC connection? The basic situation is I have windows at work, linux at home, and my linux has all of the music on it. I want to play that music without having to download it to my work computer, how can I do this?
09:34<twb>shiznatix: no
09:34<pipe>not with vnc
09:34<pipe>but with for example pulseaudio etc
09:34<twb>shiznatix: RFB is purely video
09:35<pipe>When I want to do such things I just set up an sshfs share
09:36<twb>There's also that crazy auto-discovery daapd stuff
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09:41<victor>suppose I want to delete anything between \begin{Parallel} and another \begin{Parallel}, and the texts are not in the same line, what should I do?
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09:42<babilen>victor: /
09:42<Ganneff>use a shell/perl/ruby/awk/sed/whatever script that reads a file, keeps state of "seen \begin" and only deletes until it sees another...
09:44<twb>What's wrong with this? route add default gw metric 100 dmz
09:44<dmz>what is 'dmz' there for?
09:44<Ganneff>you use route, thats whats wrong, its deprecated :)
09:45<twb>That's the name of my dmz interface (instead of, say, eth0).
09:45<twb>Ganneff: yes, but ifupdown is old and shit
09:45<dmz>then don't you need "dev dmz"
09:45<twb>Ganneff: ifup --verbose dmz reports it doing that when I add "gateway" to interfaces
09:45<twb>Ganneff: plan B is just to add another post-up rule that calls ip r add
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09:46<pipe>or rename it to dmz0 and see if it works
09:46<Ganneff>twb: that would be what i would do
09:47<twb>I wonder i
09:47<twb>f route is pissy because I have a bunch of what ifconfig would call aliases
09:50<twb>Ganneff: that (ip r add 0 via works; shrug.
09:50<twb>Oh, I see the problem. I've accidentally used /28 instead of /26 for the primary address
09:51<twb>so .1 wasn't in range
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10:10<shiznatix>I know this may not be the right place to ask this but are there any decent guides to mounting an sshfs on windows? I have a linux server I want to mount on windows so I can play music from the linux machine on the windows machine
10:11<twb>shiznatix: well, first you'll need a fuse implementation
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10:12<twb>And ssh, which you can get from cygwin or cwRsync (or putty, if that works).
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10:12<twb>The sshfs part on top probably doesn't change much (if at all).
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10:16<shiznatix>ok then
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10:17<babilen>shiznatix: I would also look into streaming daemons -- But I don't know much about it. But I guess that some of the daemons available on Linux speak a protocal that is comprehensible for Windows clients as well. (mpd et al)
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10:18<shiznatix>Maybe I could setup a stream somehow and manage it through VNC...any suggestions on that?
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10:20<coordinador>join #ltsp
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10:20<coordinador>hi, how can i know which ltsp version do i have? (i ve just update from ubuntu 9.04 to 10.04)
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10:21<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
10:22<babilen>coordinador: and it would be "/join #channel" not "join #channel"
10:22<coordinador>oh, oops, ok, i didnt understand the reason of the answer, now i understand it, sorry
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10:40<rpetre>i just noticed that on my debian machines (tested on two squeezes, so far), if i put a foo.{html,txt,php,maybe others} in /var/www , i can see it as http://server/foo . it seems mod_mime has a hand in this, but i can't really figure out how and why
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10:41<themill>rpetre: content negotiation can do this for you
10:47<hachi>hi all, how can I get the dpkg steps to stop asking me if I want to overwrite a config file with a new one?
10:47<hachi>there is a particularly good reason I changed the sample config distributed with a package.. namely so that I can actually use the program
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10:48<hachi>and anytime it's upgraded inevitably it asks me if I want to overwrite the file with the new sample config
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10:48<themill>hachi: packages where that is the case normally have some sort of conf.d mechanism in place (or use ucf to manage the three-way config file merge)
10:48<hachi>grub-pc is doing it on the file at /etc/default/grub for example
10:48<hachi>which happens to be that mechanism you're talking about
10:49<hachi>I configure things in /etc/default/grub and then update-grub generates the real config
10:49<hachi>but every time a new version of grub-pc comes out, it asks me if I want to overwrite my config
10:50<themill>/etc/default/grub isn't in any package that I can see
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10:50<hachi>well dpkg just prompted me to overwrite it
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10:50<themill>can you stick that in a pastebin?
10:50<hachi>not really, it was a curses screen that is gone now
10:50<hachi>no scrollback
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10:51<themill>hachi: did you make just a couple of changes or did you delete everything from that file and start again?
10:51<supplicant>hachi: --force-confold
10:51<hachi>I added serial console commands to make it work
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10:52<hachi>supplicant: I can pass that to aptitude somehow?
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10:52<themill>hachi: you can, but it will apply to the entire aptitude run not just that package
10:53<themill>("/msg dpkg confmiss" for a similar example)
10:53<hachi>well... that's not very useful... how do you do this per-package?
10:53<hachi>since there is no way to upgrade packages without marking them as 'manually installed'
10:53<hachi>without upgrading all
10:54<themill>if you're only worried about grub-pc that's hardly a problem
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10:54<hachi>I can make a list, but it takes a little while
10:54<hachi>cause I have to do an upgrade to do it
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10:55<themill>basically, you should only rarely see that prompt anyway. And actually, I suspect confold wouldn't help anyway since this is a ucf-handled conffile not a dpkg-handled one.
10:56<themill>(there is a way to upgrade just a few packages and not change their autoinstall status; /msg dpkg aptitude ops)
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10:57<hachi>oh man... I've been asking that question on debian channels and forums on-and-off for ages now, and yay... we have a way now
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10:59<hachi>er... I don't see how that does it at all
10:59<themill>hachi: I can't say I see this prompt very often at all on any of my machines so it's not an itch that I'm about to scratch. Are you going to scratch it? I'd suggest that in part this is a problem with using testing -- it's a moving target and config files change quite a lot.
10:59<hachi>logically I would have thought we would have been able to call 'aptitude upgrade [packages]', but the answers seem to be leading in a more complex direction
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11:00<hachi>I may end up scratching it someday here... my work is switching from centos to debian... and one big difference is the existence of debconf
11:01<hachi>centos never prompts you for anything during an upgrade, and debian can and may
11:01<themill>hachi: you can disable all debconf prompting, but you get to fix all the broken bits yourself then.
11:01<hachi>when you're talking hundreds of machines at a time, you really want it to stop asking questions that it shouldn't be asking
11:01<hachi>not really what I'm searching for
11:01<hachi>I'm trying to disable it for things that I know are fine
11:02<hachi>so that if it does prompt me, I know it's at least reasonably relevant
11:02<themill>Except that it can never know which changes are fine and which aren't
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11:02<hachi>so a couple things break... it's hard to know until you try them anyways
11:03<hachi>it's far better to opt out of things I want to... and have new things show up
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11:03<hachi>that way if something I opted out of breaks, I can opt back in, or whatever
11:03<themill>with ucf, each time you are shown this prompt it is because something new showed up
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11:03<hachi>except with grub, where it's asking me to replace the file with a 'new version'... that has had zero changes
11:03<hachi>all it wants to do is delete the lines I added
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11:04<hachi>I didn't change any lines, and the maintainer didn't change any lines... I only added two lines to the end of the file
11:05<rpetre>themill: sorry, i was away, can you please be a bit more verbose about content negotiation?
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11:08<themill>rpetre: "Options +MultiViews" is the apache config directive that can be used for this -- the browser supplies a list of mime-types that it would cope with and assigns a preference order to them. The server then throws back the best "version" for the content requested. i.e. you might have .fr.html > .en.html > html > txt (or whatever)
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11:08<themill>so when you have and foo.html, the user would get the french version with that preference order
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11:14<rpetre>but why the /foo url?
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11:16<rpetre>anyway, thanks for the confirmation, i thought i was going crazy ;)
11:17<acu>I installed a webserver based on squeeze apache ez publish - and everythiing is fine - only the images from the website are pixelated - as they would be a very low quality - what is the problem ?
11:17<rpetre>i'll dig a bit through the docs around the multiviews
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11:28<acu>hey guys what's up with #debian on freenode ?
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11:28<petemc>what about it?
11:28<cahoot>acu: the server dellivers the intended files - not thumbs?
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11:30<acu>cahoot: that's a good smart question to ask :) It maybe that too - however I found that the browser was in a kind of zoom in so it was stretching everything - if I reset the zoom - the quality of pictures is OK
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11:34<themill>acu: it's currently available for to registered users only. I wasn't there when that was set but I'm finding out if it's sane to lift that. If you register you're allowed in. /msg nickserv help register
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11:44<acu>themill: thanks - I was wondering what was the reason to allow only registered reason - I will not register - I am fine with OFTC - only that in freenode there were more people hanging around - that was all
11:45<jeremyb>anyone know if the BSDs have a uniq?
11:45<jeremyb>(equivalent, i definitely don't see one here)
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11:56<dominick>pavi, how come you're not at #fsug-vjit?
11:56<jeremyb>nvm, wrote my own :) perl -ne 'BEGIN { $last = undef; $count = 0;} if($_ ne $last) { print "$count\t$last" if defined($last); $last = $_;$count=1;} else { $count++ };'
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12:04<jeremyb>of course, I need a END {print "$count\t$last" if defined($last);} on the end too
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12:11<pipe>So.. what did richih_ just do and why? banned everyone?
12:11<pipe>oh, removed bans
12:12*pipe is blind, continue with whatever you were doing. :P
12:13<RichiH>pipe: sir, yes, sir!
12:13*RichiH goes on lurking
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12:19<pipe>Hum. I accidentally an alias in bash that starts with "--". Now I can't unalias it.
12:20<bja>pipe: Don you define aliases on .bashrc ?
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12:20<Yoda`Taff>unalias "--aliasname"
12:21<pipe>bash: unalias: --: invalid option
12:21<felixs>pipe unalias -- --aliasname
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12:22<pipe>I don't think this has been tested, it still gave a warning but removed the alias.
12:22<pipe>Yeah well.
12:22<felixs>but how did you get this alias, if not by alias -- --aliasname=thingas?
12:23<pipe>alias ls=ls --color=auto
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12:23<felixs>ic. nice :)
12:23<pipe>not really :P
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12:24<pipe>First I tried "unalias - --color", which actually worked but it complained that it couldn't find the alias "-"
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12:24<pipe>Which explains why it complained on "--" when the alias was already removed. Everything is now clear.
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12:39<audiclean>Does anyone know any good articles on slimming a debian install?
12:40<bja>apt-get purge ;P
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12:41<Gathond>start by installing the base system instead of using tasksel
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12:44<audiclean>Just deselect everything when prompted by the installer?
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12:45<felixs>audiclean: write an own article. start with disabling installation of suggests and recommends. then localepurge makes sense.
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12:47<f8l>audiclean: Disable automatic installation of recommended packages and mark all libraries as autoselected.
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12:49<f8l>audiclean: Check if there are some oversized log files. Also `apt-get autoclean` (or clean).
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12:52<audiclean>I suppose deborphan would be a good idea too
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12:52<pipe>doesn't aptitude do what deborphan is for, or did I miss something
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12:57<GRWAN>hi everyboddy
12:58<GRWAN>salamo 3likoum
12:58<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
12:58<f8l>audiclean: FSLint has a nice tool that lists packages in order of size. It also finds duplicate files if you fill you have some redundant data.
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12:59<rpetre>dpigs from debian-goodies does the "largest installed package" thing
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13:01<pipe>yes, install a lot of cruft to get rid of the cruft! ;)
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13:04<f8l>pipe: And then uninstall it. ^^
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13:05<f8l>À propos. There's a cruft program to search for cruft.
13:05<audiclean>ah, forgot about fslint
13:05<pipe>I think that about half of the files in a minimal debian install will be all kernel modules
13:05<audiclean>it's been ages since i used that
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13:06<audiclean>It's a headless server, so there's a few modules i can scrap
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13:06<f8l>audiclean: FSLint has non-gui tools as well.
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13:07<f8l>audiclean: I've never used cruft, but I stumbled upon it couple of years ago.
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13:11<audiclean>just giving it a try now, handly little utility
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13:12<pipe>cuold also do something like
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13:13<pipe>file -atime -20 -delete
13:13<pipe>(no, don't do this)
13:13<audiclean>too late
13:14<audiclean>(kidding, honest)
13:14<pipe>Yes, because it should've been +20 :P
13:17<rpetre>always run it with -print before -delete :)
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13:19<audiclean>735mb down to 630mb at the moment
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13:20<audiclean>can maybe knock another 100 off
13:20<audiclean>I don't really want to get rid of my logs though, as soon as I do I'll need them for something
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13:22<rpetre>compress them
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13:24<pipe>audiclean: That's quite a lot, my "clean" debian installs seem to land at around 2-300 MB
13:24<pipe>And that's before localepurge and tweaking
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13:24<audiclean>It started around that a few years ago
13:25<audiclean>it's grown slowly since
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13:25<pipe>like windows
13:25<pipe>spontaneous data growth
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13:29<anonymous-no>man kann sich ja mit ls den Inhalt des aktuellen verzeichnisses anzeigen lassen
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13:29<dpkg>Deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in (auf, oder - German speaking users please go to (on, or
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13:30<anonymous-no>gibt es auch einen Befehl, der mir alle ordner und deren inhalt (und falls da auch noch ein Ordner ist, auch deren Inhalt usw.) anzeigt?
13:30<anonymous-no>so eine Art Rießen Stammbaum von allem was auf der =Platte liegt
13:30<kop>anonymous-no: Ich tuit mir lied. Nur English hier bitte.
13:31<anonymous-no>ohh sorry
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13:31<anonymous-no>I join in the German channel
13:31<anonymous-no>have a nice day
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13:43<iman>when i want to used apt-get update, i face this error : Release file expired, ignoring .../dists/squeeze/Release
13:43<iman>you think whats the problem
13:43<mjt>old mirror?
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13:44<schmack>if I am a ISP, 'server' and i have debian lenny 5.0.6, e.g., how can i upgrade without loosing the database to 6.0 squeeze when it release, it is possible with Debian, (without backup rack) ?
13:44<iman>mjr, i read from a file and i test it inot an other mechine and it's worked
13:45<iman>but i install a new debian distro and get this problem, but i dont know whats the problem
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13:45<iman>how can i solved it ?
13:46<schmack>who can tell me
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13:46<retrospectacus>iman: change your /etc/apt/sources.list and put some valid sources in it
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13:47<retrospectacus>schmack: explain again, what are you worried about happening?
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13:47<schmack>retrospectacus: what?
13:48<iman>retrospectacus, it's valid source
13:48<retrospectacus>schmack: I don't know what your worry is
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13:48<schmack>retrospectacus: Can you understand me what I am asking?
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13:49<retrospectacus>schmack: no, I don't understand "without loosing the database to 6.0 squeeze"
13:49<retrospectacus>iman: pastebin the file
13:49<schmack>retrospectacus: heh. no. I mean do upgrade to new version without loosing the datebase...
13:49<schmack>retrospectacus: can I do..
13:50*bja is puzzled about the database
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13:50<retrospectacus>schmack: this is a mystery, what you are talking about
13:51<schmack>retrospectacus: Upgrade to NEWER version of Debian, without loosing database (settings, options, perferences, software, setted daemons, etc.) ?!?
13:52<retrospectacus>of course schmack, this is all kept
13:52<retrospectacus>no problem
13:52<schmack>ah ok
13:52<schmack>I understand, thank you
13:53<bja>but making a backup of /etc should help your ease of mind
13:53<retrospectacus>try it and see, ask if you encounter any problem
13:53<bja>also before upgrading doing dpkg -l>somefile should also help
13:53<schmack>ok retrospectacus
13:53<schmack>but I am waiting for final squeeze
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13:59<pipe>So you're a ISP and you upgrade your machines with no backup if something goes wrong?
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13:59<pipe>Oh, he left.
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14:00<jhutchins_lt>schultmc: First, upgrading a critical system without a backup isn't smart.
14:00<jhutchins_lt>schultmc: Second, upgrading the OS rarely touches data applications like databases or web pages.
14:00<iman>retrospectacus, plz wait
14:01<jhutchins_lt>schultmc: If you were to make a significant enough change in a database server that it required a modification of the database, you would expect a conversion utility to be provided for the upgrade. This wouldn't be something from Debian but from the developers of the DB.
14:01<pipe>jhutchins_lt: Are you sure you're talking to the right guy now?
14:01<jeremyb>jhutchins_lt: schultmc is a DD, schmack (the guy who asked) is not here any longer
14:01<jhutchins_lt>schultmc: Ideally, you would do the upgrade on a test copy of the server.
14:02<jhutchins_lt>schultmc: In any case, again, upgrading a production system without having a system backup available for rapid restore is foolish.
14:02<pipe>jhutchins_lt: ping
14:02<jeremyb>jhutchins_lt: stop, read
14:02<pipe>earth to jhutchins_lt
14:03<jhutchins_lt>Yeah, got the wrong tab competion.
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14:03<jhutchins_lt>Tallking to a dead nic.
14:03<lamah>don't worry guy I am here:)
14:03<lamah>but with my real nick
14:04*lamah is a schtrack :")
14:04<jeremyb>was that really worth pastebinning? :P
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14:05<lamah>jhutchins: /me schmack, and why?! apt-get full-upgrade makes a big help?
14:05<retrospectacus>iman: you want something more like this:
14:05<jeremyb>or does that actually exist
14:05*lamah = schmack
14:06<lamah>jeremyb: yes dist-upgrade also
14:06<retrospectacus>iman: sorry that is mine, it is a <tum> , please ignore the lines with "sid"
14:06*jeremyb runs away
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14:11<iman>retrospectacus, i download it into local machine first, then i read it from it, it's worked in another machine but i install a new deiban but it's not worked at there machine
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14:14<retrospectacus>iman: does that file location even exist on that machine?
14:14<iman>retrospectacus, yes
14:15<retrospectacus>pastebin the entire output of apt-get update
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14:36<iman>retrospectacus, sorry for delay, because i have to copy it from an other machine without GUI,
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14:40<retrospectacus>it's detected that your repository is too old. Use an online one, or you may be able to force it somehow in the update command, or by changing the system time
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14:43<retrospectacus>or someone else here may have an idea... ;)
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14:47<iman>retrospectacus, it can ignore it - it means there are switch for ignore date
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14:48<retrospectacus>I don't know
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15:07<nlewycky>if the gcc maintainers are around, please integrate the patch in to your next upload.
15:08<nlewycky>(i tried to file a debreport, but it appears to have been eaten.)
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15:09<retrospectacus>iman: this appears to be a new problem, your /var/lib/apt is mounted read-only?
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15:15<iman>retrospectacus, when i want to changed mode a facet file system is read only
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15:18<jeremyb>retrospectacus: pastebin dmesg
15:18<retrospectacus>iman: pastebin dmesg
15:18<jeremyb>err, yeah, him
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15:19<jeremyb>and cat /proc/mounts
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15:20<iman>retrospectacus, in this issue, when i want to change permission mod to another mod e like this : chmod 777 /var/lib/apt, as root user, i faced this message that it's appear at here: Read-only file system
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15:21<iman>jeremyb, ok, plz w8
15:21<retrospectacus>iman: yes, please pastebin the output of dmesg and cat /proc/mounts
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15:22<kop>Is /proc/self/mounts right when root is ro and /etc/mtab wrong?
15:22<jeremyb>don't know what self is
15:23<Lantizia>Hey I've got a debian server that has frozen twice in 3 hours (no keyboard/mouse/video input/output) and the only fix is a reboot... can anyone point me in the direction of some general logs to know what caused it?
15:23<kop>jeremyb: readlink /proc/mounts
15:23<jeremyb>and please (w/ dpkg-reconfigureable cherry-on-top count) don't actually chmod 777...!!!
15:23<jeremyb>kop: well proc is (afaik) always read write
15:24<jeremyb>if /etc/mtab is r/o then it's bound to get outdated
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15:24<dondelelcaro>Lantizia: if there's no output, you'll want a serial console. That should give you some idea of what happened.
15:24<kop>Lantizia: The best option is to setup a serial console, especially if it does not ping.
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15:25<dondelelcaro>Lantizia: if it doesn't, then it may be a hardware issue (there are all kinds of ways in which servers can fail that render it impossible to debug)
15:25<Lantizia>dondelelcaro, kop: I'm no where near the server however and it's a bit too late for that - I need to know what caused it before
15:26<kop>Lantizia: You could try doing syslog over the network to another box and hope you see something.
15:26<Lantizia>kop, well it's already got syslog which I can read when I get back in
15:26<Lantizia>but nothing there indicated why it failed
15:26<kop>Lantizia: That won't help if, for example, the disk blocked.
15:27<jeremyb>kop stole me words
15:27<jeremyb>also won't help if the disk is full
15:28<dondelelcaro>Lantizia: there's no way to tell if you didn't have a serial console hooked up before
15:28<Lantizia>dondelelcaro, ?
15:28<Lantizia>I don't understand why you'd say that
15:29<dondelelcaro>Lantizia: there are all sorts of failure modes for which the only way to get output is to shoot it to the serial console
15:29<kop>Lantizia: You fail-over to the standby and have them ship you the box.
15:29<jeremyb>Lantizia: all of the solutions we're offering are for the future only, not the past
15:29<jeremyb>s/solutions/diagnostic methods/
15:29<dondelelcaro>this is why you don't operate servers without working serial consoles
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15:30<Lantizia>theres no other server for it to log to
15:30<dondelelcaro>Lantizia: any reputable hosting provider will set you up with a working serial console, or you can purchase a serial->net interface too
15:31<dondelelcaro>without it, we can guess, but that's it; there's no way to know
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15:32<iman>jeremyb, retrospectacus
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15:33<jeremyb>/dev/mapper/VolGroup-lv_root / ext4 ro,relatime,barrier=1,data=ordered 0 0
15:33<jeremyb>and dmesg?
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15:34<iman>jeremyb, what is dmesg ?
15:34<kop>iman: A command.
15:35<jeremyb>iman: run dmesg
15:35<jeremyb>iman: pastebin the output
15:35<dpkg>[pastebinit] a command-line tool to send data to a <pastebin>; convenient if you don't have a graphical interface. To paste e.g. your sources.list do "aptitude install pastebinit; pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list"; to paste the output of a program do e.g. "dmesg | pastebinit".
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15:47<jeremyb>iman: are you sure it ever worked on that box? what did you change since the last time it worked?
15:48<iman>dear jeremyb , yes i am sure about it, you think whats the problem exacatly
15:49<jeremyb>note i have absolutely zero experience with ext4 fwiw
15:49<jeremyb>iman: well it's mounted ro atm per /proc/mounts
15:49<jeremyb>and ro at boot per kernel params
15:50<iman>jeremyb, ok
15:50<jeremyb>don't know enough about debian booting to know if it normally remounts or what the log should say when it remounts (as rw)
15:50<iman>jeremyb, thank you for your help
15:50<jeremyb>anyway, try `touch /foo` as root
15:51<iman>jeremyb, when i want to write this command i faced this message : touch: cannot touch `/foo`: Read-only file system
15:52*jeremyb goes to compare to his own local dmesg
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15:52<jeremyb>what debian version?
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15:53<iman>jeremyb, squeeze testing
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16:01<jeremyb>iman: all i can say for now is that it's normal to be ro at boot (same for me)
16:01<jeremyb>iman: have to get some other work done now
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16:57<retrospectacus>,pciid 168c:001c
16:57<judd>[168c:001c] is 'AR5001 Wireless Network Adapter' from 'Atheros Communications Inc.' with kernel module 'ath5k' in lenny. See also and the out-of-tree 'ath_pci' module.
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17:07<retrospectacus>how can I --purge *all* pcakages that I had before and removed
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17:08<retrospectacus>hmm something like this? dpkg -l |grep ^r |xargs apt-get remove --purge
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17:09<retrospectacus>trying to free up space here
17:10<cthuluh>aptitude purge '~c' might be simpler
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17:11<retrospectacus>cool, thanks man!
17:11<dpkg>To list uninstalled recommended packages: aptitude search '~RBrecommends:~i!~i'; upgradeable packages: aptitude search '~U'; manually installed packages: aptitude search '~i!~M'; See also <obsolete> <not available> <bdo list> <dmm list> <which repo> <aptitude clone> <sort by size> <aptitude why> <aptitude search>, or <aptitude ops>
17:12<cthuluh>oh, don't mix apt-get and aptitude
17:12<cthuluh>I heard it could lead to weird results
17:13<retrospectacus>I prefer apt-get but I don't think it has this '~c' type syntax
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17:14<cthuluh>that would be a good reason to switch to aptitude, don't you think?
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17:15<pipe>Two tools that are using the same backend and that are talked about and used interchangeably should probably NOT be designed in a way that using one would make the other break silently.
17:16<cthuluh>I only heard about it. "Don't", that's all
17:16<cthuluh>and they don't use exactly the same backends
17:16<pipe>Yeah, I also only heard "don't" but never why, which is annoying
17:16<cthuluh> guess one has to search by himself
17:18<pipe>So what can happen is that aptitude could remove a package that it thinks is unused
17:18<pipe>According to a quick google
17:21<cthuluh>they don't deal with dependancies in the same way, and that's enough for me. plus, the debian developers consider that anybody should use aptitude
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17:23<pipe>Is this still true? I just found some information that it could have been fixed
17:23<pipe>And that they had switched to apt-get in some documentation too
17:25<retrospectacus>aptitude is slow as balls, and installs way too much unnecessary things, as if controlled by my rich uncle who buys everything in Ikea and every extra for his truck with no thought of Hard drive space.
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17:25<pipe>Don't bash IKEA, I'm from sweden.
17:25<cthuluh>retrospectacus: there are switches to change that behaviour
17:26<pipe>Anyway, it shouldn't install more than apt-get?
17:26<pipe>APT::Install-Recommends "false"; is a good start :)
17:26<retrospectacus>apt-get is a better start
17:26<pipe>But aptitude *is* unbearably slow on a couple of my laptops yes
17:27<pipe>Which is why I'd like to be able to use apt-get occasionally
17:27<retrospectacus>also, I have nothing against Ikea :)
17:27<retrospectacus>or Swedes, I have some family there, they know how to party ;)
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17:31<pipe>I don't
17:32<pipe>Anyway, it seems like all this aptitude vs. apt-get is just old rumours these days
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17:36<retrospectacus>pipe: you don't know how to party? Your nickname says otherwise
17:37<Linus>) /msg dpkg 5.0.6 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg pastebin | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | FAQ: | Squeeze has been frozen:
17:37<Linus>* Topic for #debian set by Ganneff! at Sun Oct 3 21:00:31 2010 so DIsscuss
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17:38<retrospectacus>Linus, are you OK?
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17:47<schichtleiter>can somebody give me a quick hint for a shellscript? =)
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17:49<cthuluh>probably, but you'd better ask on your shell channel (generally on
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17:51<retrospectacus>schichtleiter: just ask
17:51<pipe>Here's a quick hint: "man dash" instead of "man bash".
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17:53<schichtleiter>trying to do a filetype swtich:
17:53<schichtleiter> if T=pdf; then
17:53<schichtleiter> echo yes
17:53<schichtleiter> else
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17:54<cthuluh>ok, schichtleiter, man bash section parameter expansion. also, read about the ''case'' statement
17:54<cthuluh>and don't try to guess syntax. read
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17:55<cthuluh>well, in fact, with ''case'', you don't even need the parameter expansion stuff...
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17:57<cthuluh>hi qq-
17:57<qq->hi cthuluh
17:57<pipe>man DASH
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17:58<cthuluh>Highway To Hell?
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17:58<dpkg>it has been said that hth is Hope This Helps
17:59<pipe>usually told with sarcastic undertones
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18:00<qq->dpkg, hth is Hope This Helps <pipe> usually told with sarcastic undertones
18:00<dpkg>...but hth is already something else...
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18:01<dpkg>it has been said that hth is Hope This Helps <pipe> usually told with sarcastic undertones
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18:03<pipe>I'm not sure that would be correct enough english to put in there..
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18:08<qq->pipe, sound good ...
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18:13<jhutchins_lt>usually said instead of usually told
18:13<pipe>Or perhaps "written", this being IRC and everything.
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18:28<Lantizia>anyone know of any basic utility (command line or graphical) that can play a loud (or any) noise when a ping fails? just something basic
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18:29<pipe>of course, you'd have to couple it with a small script to ping
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18:43<amphi>or why, or which, or what, is the Akond of Swat?
18:44<pipe>dpkg: do you know anything about this Akond?
18:44*dpkg eagerly does you know anything about this Akond
18:44<gui4gui>i'am sorry for who but it the first time i use irssi. So it was a mistake
18:44<qq->ca va ..
18:45<abrotman>don't you need funny accents when you say that ?
18:45<jeremyb>Lantizia: \007 iirc
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18:45<Lantizia>jeremyb, 007? is that an app?
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18:46*amphi gives qq- a cedilla
18:46<amphi>a bell
18:46<jeremyb>as in perl -pe 'print "\007" if /not found/;'
18:46-!-hotwings [] has joined #debian
18:46<jeremyb>a week or 2 ago i wrote a bash loop that piped to that perl oneliner
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18:47<jeremyb>to poll a list to see when something disappeared from the list
18:47<Smail>how to install language pack in Linux ??? thanks
18:47<pipe>Smail: What is a language pack?
18:48<abrotman>Smail: dpkg-reconfigure locales
18:48<hotwings>i have a watchdog script that does certain checks, logs problems, and takes action if needed.. its a simple bash script that infinitely loops. however, sometimes the script itself crashes (no clue why).. is there a system watchdog or something that i can add this script to? say if its not running, then the system watchdog will run it...??
18:48<Smail>OS Back Track 4 (Russian)
18:48<pipe>that's not debian
18:49<pipe>but locales will probably work anyway
18:49<jeremyb>hotwings: how often?
18:49<abrotman>Smail: ask #backtrack-linux on .. have a nice day
18:50<jeremyb>abrotman: is a deriv?
18:50<abrotman>it's not debian, that's for darn sure
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18:50<hotwings>jeremyb - how often what??
18:50<jeremyb>hotwings: crash
18:50<Smail>butt it tell my!
18:51<abrotman>Smail: ask #backtrack-linux on .. have a nice day
18:51<hotwings>usually the script crashes after a few days at least
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18:51<hotwings>the main loop itself is only delayed with a `sleep 5`
18:52<hotwings>i dont see that that would matter though
18:52<abrotman>hotwings: there's a program that will look to see if a program is running and run it if it is not
18:53<hotwings>i guess such a program would work just as well. i wasnt sure if debian had an own watchdog built-in. any idea what that program is called?
18:53<jeremyb>abrotman: looks like main be a live distro based on something which was based on knoppix (which was based on debian!) anyway, the point is the default for the irc client is probably here not the deriv channel and maybe we should bug them about it
18:53-!-Smail [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:53<abrotman>it's still not debian :)
18:54<jeremyb>abrotman: see 'anyway,'
18:54<abrotman>jeremyb: there's a channel for that if you're that interested in reporting that
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18:54<abrotman> #debian-derivatives 4 Collaboration between Debian and its derivative distributions | |
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18:57<jeremyb>hotwings: i'd try running it with set -x . if the logs are too big then stick something like 'cp -p log{,.1};cp /dev/null log' in a cron job
18:57*jeremyb doesn't know about a watchdog but you could either write one in bash or steal the mysql init script
18:57*jeremyb looks
18:58<abrotman>judd: info runit --release lenny
18:58<judd>Package runit (admin, optional) in lenny/i386: a UNIX init scheme with service supervision. Version: 2.0.0-1; Size: 107.9k; Installed: 432k
18:58<abrotman>wait .. wrong
18:58<abrotman>judd: info monit --release lenny
18:58<judd>Package monit (admin, optional) in lenny/i386: A utility for monitoring and managing daemons or similar programs. Version: 1:4.10.1-4; Size: 260.6k; Installed: 696k
18:58<jeremyb>ahh, there you go
18:59<hotwings>ill look into monit but also try set -x as suggested
18:59<hotwings>i'd like to know if the script is crashing or something else is causing the crash
18:59<hotwings>i cant imagine the script has an error but nobody is perfect :)
18:59<hotwings>thanks fellas
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19:00<abrotman>it could be an error in sometihng hyour script calls
19:02<jeremyb>err, make that 'cp -p log{,.1};if [ $(du -k log | awk '{print $1}') -gt 10240 ]; then cp /dev/null log; fi' and archive a copy of log forever before each start (if you do the watchdog)
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19:02<jeremyb>are you currently redirectly any stdout/stderr to /dev/null ?
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19:21<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
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19:28<amakusa>hello, how can I check and see what locale I have installed?
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19:30<amakusa>abrotman: whoa! that a lot off locales
19:30<abrotman>the ones with # haven't been generated
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19:32<amakusa>abrotman, all of them have it
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19:33<valessio>hi all, what do you think this wallpaper/background to squeeze?
19:33<pipe>amakusa: grep -v ^# /etc/locale.gen
19:34<amakusa>nope, sorry, en_US.utf8 doesnt have it
19:34<amakusa>my bad
19:35<pipe>valessio: Don't like it
19:35<tash>pipe: ^# mean lack of # ?
19:36<pipe>tash: No, ^# means only match at the beginning
19:36<pipe>tash: -v means to invert the results
19:36<tash>pipe: ohh that's nice, thanks man, a day is what we learn
19:37<pipe>-v is a very useful option
19:37<valessio>pipe, thanks.. any more opnion/suggestion???
19:37<tash>pipe: yes it seems to be very handy
19:37<pipe>valessio: The dark edges means that the image have very different brightness so icons will look very different depending on where it's placed
19:37<pipe>valessio: Dark icons will disappear at the edges and bright ones will stand out too much
19:38<valessio>pipe, you like more clean (+elements) or low dark (more white)?
19:38<valessio>pipe: hmm, ok. :)
19:38<pipe>valessio: Not to mention that not everyone use a screen with black borders, so fading out to black will look stupid on a screen with grey borders or a white notebook
19:39<valessio>someone else?
19:39<pipe>I thought this was to be included in some official release
19:39<pipe>If not, then why are you asking here? :P
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19:41<valessio>I'm asking because we're opnion of users in close proximity to decide which will enter the release of the squeeze.
19:42<valessio>deadline 24th Oct...
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19:43<valessio>only exist three options; I have create other option artwork
19:43<valessio>any help is welcome.. :P
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20:08<GhostlyDeath>Is there a way to make the (natural) console not scroll to the bottom when text is printed?
20:09<retrospectacus>gnome-terminal has this option but don't know about "natural" console.. like the TTY?
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20:12<jeremyb>abrotman: what there was offtopic?
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20:15<GhostlyDeath>Would it be possible to place alsamixer in it's own tty?
20:16-!-mode/#debian [+l 397] by debhelper
20:17*jeremyb stabs autoprint websites (i know where my own print button is damnit!)
20:17<retrospectacus>GhostlyDeath: the scroll lock key does it but just by preventing additional output
20:17<retrospectacus>GhostlyDeath: sure
20:17<jeremyb>(via js) now that really was OT :P
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20:18<GhostlyDeath>retrospectacus: Using vcstime though
20:18<retrospectacus>I dunno what that is
20:18<GhostlyDeath>dispays a clock on the top right hand corner of the terminal
20:19<pipe>You could always use screen, I'm sure there are about 29 ways to do what you want
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20:27<GhostlyDeath>Heh, alsamixer on it's on ctrl+alt is pretty cool
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20:28<pipe>No it's not
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20:28<GhostlyDeath>pipe: Why not?
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20:29<pipe>Because you don't need to constantly adjust the settings
20:29<GhostlyDeath>I need to constantly adjust the settings
20:29<GhostlyDeath>My volume keys don't work on the terminal
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20:43<chien>gracias debian...pakets toujours surs...!
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20:45<chien>hay chicas ici..?et sur linux...?
20:47<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
20:48<chien>si parece ...
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20:49<bremner_>chien was here yesterday. Subtle hints are not going to help.
20:50<pipe>easily amused troll
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20:52<chien>salut a toi BREMNER....
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20:53<themill>chien: you're still in the wrong place.
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21:10<ecarpenter84>hello. im having a strange issue. it persists on Debian Server, Ubuntu Server + ubuntu alternate cd. When i select to install linux my usb keyboards wont work anymore. Meaning everything works fine until it asks me to choose a language
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21:11<ecarpenter84>anyone know anything about this issue
21:11<pipe>Only thing I know is that it works for me. Doesn't help you though.
21:12<pipe>You say "keyboards", do you have multiple? Connected at once?
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21:12<ecarpenter84>Its worked for me on many computers not just this one.
21:12<ecarpenter84>No one at a time
21:12<ecarpenter84>3 different usb keyboards
21:13<pipe>The usual debug method for USB keyboards is to remove everything connected to the USB ports and plug it directly to one of the built-in ports on the motherboard.
21:13<jpinx-eeepc>ecarpenter84: sounds like hardware problems, did you try all the usb ports?
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21:13<pipe>You can try forcing the USB ports to USB 1.1 in the BIOS.
21:13<ecarpenter84>Ive tried a few of them. Ill try more. Oh one solution i had thought i found was the automatic install. But it stopped to ask me which ethernet port i wanted to use
21:14<pipe>If they keyboard doesn't work during the install, it will probably not work after the install either :)
21:14<ecarpenter84>it works in the options
21:14<ecarpenter84>to choose which install i want
21:14<ecarpenter84>and if i want advanced etc...
21:14<pipe>That's before linux kernel started
21:15<ecarpenter84>ah ok.
21:15<pipe>Have you tried any of the live cds?
21:16<pipe>That boots up to a nice and hightech gnome session
21:16<ecarpenter84>Not yet. I wanted a headless install
21:16<pipe>at least with debian you should be able to send the install to a serial port
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21:19<GhostlyDeath>Is there a way to disable global messages printing to the screen such as read errors?
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21:21<pipe>might be in one of the rsyslog.d/foo files
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21:29<ecarpenter84>oh. its a 64-bit cpu
21:29<ecarpenter84>and im trying to do x86
21:29<ecarpenter84>would that mess up the kebyoard
21:30<ecarpenter84>looks like maybe noapic will do it someone else said
21:30<pipe>Yeah, those magic things might work
21:31<ecarpenter84>okay. sweet. im trying to set this box up as a minecraft server
21:31<ecarpenter84>im gonna try it. brb afk
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21:36<ecarpenter84>it worked btw
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21:48<Impulse>do any of you guys have any advise on blocking bruit force ssh attacks?
21:48<pipe>Plenty of tools for that
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21:48<Impulse>yea i'm looking around google for "debian ssh security bruit force"
21:49<Impulse>my logs are full of them
21:49<pipe>look around in apt-cache search instead
21:49<pipe>a quick search found denyhosts and sshguard
21:50<pipe>then you have the various firewall port knockers but they might be a little more inconvenient
21:50<pipe>or you could just ignore the messages, it's not like they will stop trying even if you block them
21:51<Impulse>people were recomending to move to another port
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21:52<pipe>If your password is something like "password1", then yes
21:53<pipe>There's no excuse for not having a good randomly generated password that can't be bruteforced
21:53<pipe>and if it can't be bruteforced, you can relax, and you don't have to worry about them finding your secret port etc.
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21:54<Impulse>sshgaurd isn't in stable?
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21:55<pipe>and I don't know actually
21:56<Impulse>yea, i think both of those are in testing
21:56<Impulse>i could grab a backport
21:56<pipe>denyhosts is in stable
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21:57<pipe>I made some statistics about the different bruteforce attacks that they tried on me once
21:58<pipe>Can't remember where I put them.
21:58<Impulse>i think one of they guys hitting me is in the denyhost log
21:59<pipe>it's all automated, using botnets
21:59<pipe>and trying many hosts at once, so they won't trigger too many trivial intrusion scripts and connection limits
22:01<Impulse>i need to setup connection limits still
22:02<Impulse>they've been wacking at me for hours
22:02<Impulse>if not days
22:02<pipe>One thing with connection limits though, make sure that they won't lock you out if they try too many times
22:02<pipe>But if you didn't read your logs you wouldn't know about it
22:02<Impulse>i have this box next to my TV
22:03<Impulse>i was wondering what all the traffic is about, my comments on the newspaper weren't that good
22:03<Impulse>should have guessed it earlier
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22:11<kop>Impulse: You can use swatch to dynamically change limits. YMMV.
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22:25<Impulse>i'm not seeing connection limits as an option in /etc/ssh/sshd_config
22:26<pipe>There are a couple, but you should use your firewall
22:26<pipe>check man sshd_config
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22:29<Impulse>there is MaxAuthTries, MaxSession, and MaxStartups
22:30<Impulse>on a side note
22:30<elements1>Not sure if it's what you need, but it is easy to limit using iptables.
22:30<pipe>You should still use your firewall for this
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22:30<pipe>Every program that connects to the internet shouldn't have their own connection limit logic
22:30<Impulse>DenyHosts has hung during install
22:31<Impulse>last command it sent from the install "Starting DenyHosts: denyhosts "
22:31<Impulse>been sitting for like 5 minutes
22:31<Impulse>maybe 10
22:31<pipe>maybe it locked you out from ssh :)
22:31<Impulse>but i'm still able to connect from new ssh terminals
22:32*pipe shrugs
22:32<pipe>Perhaps the debian way of randomly automatically starting up every program you install before you have a chance to configure them isn't very good?
22:32<pipe>Who knows.
22:32<Impulse>um from ps
22:32<pipe>Never used denyhosts though.
22:33<Impulse>it's still running?
22:33<Impulse>0 S 0 22715 22017 2 80 0 - 12301 select pts/1 00:00:26 aptitude
22:33<Impulse>0 S 0 22848 22847 0 80 0 - 946 wait pts/2 00:00:00
22:33<Impulse>0 S 0 22854 22848 0 80 0 - 961 wait pts/2 00:00:00 invoke-rc.d
22:33<Impulse>0 S 0 22872 22854 0 80 0 - 973 wait pts/2 00:00:00 denyhosts
22:33<Impulse>0 S 0 22878 22872 0 80 0 - 1432 wait pts/2 00:00:00 denyhosts_ctl.
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22:46<Impulse>i think deny hosts hung
22:46<Impulse>because my log file is huge
22:46<Impulse>going to rename it
22:47<Impulse>auth.log ia 195MB
22:48<jordanm>Impulse: thats logrotates job to handle, not denyhosts
22:48<jordanm>oh, you mean lots of failed auths, I see
22:49<jeremyb>if you rename anything, restart syslog
22:49<Impulse>i moved it
22:49<Impulse>and then touched a new file
22:49<Impulse>um, hope it's ok
22:49<Impulse>denyhosts parses the auth.log on install
22:49<Impulse>it hung on install
22:50<jeremyb>stat the old and new and compare uid/gid/bits
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22:52<tupacshakur>uhm how do i set the DISPLAY variable in sh?
22:52<tupacshakur>is it like 'set DISPLAY=0.0'
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22:53<zjason>tupacshakur: 'export DISPLAY=0.0' for bash
22:54<Impulse>how to i restart syslog?
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22:54<zjason>Impulse: /etc/init.d/sysklogd restart
22:55<jordanm>zjason: rsyslog is the default syslog for debian
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22:56<Impulse>it's loging again
22:56<Impulse>already been wacked a bunch of times since the restart 10 sec ago
22:56<zjason>jordanm: debian lenny or debian squeeze?
22:57<Impulse>denyhosts starts on new install after rename
22:58<jordanm>zjason: both. its Priority: Important in both
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23:01<hardbop200>evening all - some time ago, someone in this room pointed me to how to download an existing package, download the upstream source, and somehow use debian tools (dh-make?) to create an updated package. I've lost my notes on this; can someone instruct me (or the bot to instruct me) on what I need to be looking for?
23:01<zjason>jordanm: It's weird since my lenny has no rsyslog installed
23:02<jordanm>!tell hardbop200 about nmg
23:02<hardbop200>jordanm: thank you, I'll start there! :)
23:02<jordanm>hardbop200: or, if you are just doing it for a personal machine and not for distribution, you can try checkinstall, which is automated
23:03<zjason>jordanm: maybe my lenny is upgraded from etch so I can keep syslog
23:03<jordanm>zjason: install sysklogd would have removed rsyslog. ah, could have been the default and etch
23:03<jordanm>,info rsyslog --release etch
23:03<judd>No record of package 'rsyslog' in etch/i386.
23:03<hardbop200>jordanm: yes, personal machine. a package already exists in the repos, but it is a few revisions behind...I would like to create a package that upgrades this existing one. I'm gonna start reading :)
23:03<jordanm>,info syslogkd --release etch
23:03<judd>No record of package 'syslogkd' in etch/i386.
23:04<jordanm>,info sysklogd --release etch
23:04<judd>Package sysklogd (admin, important) in etch/i386: System Logging Daemon. Version: 1.4.1-18; Size: 56.7k; Installed: 212k
23:04<jordanm>zjason: yep, default in etch
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23:05<jordanm>hardbop200: then likely you just need to copy debian/ directory from the existing package into the upstream sources, run dch -i, and build
23:05<jordanm>assuming there have not been changes to the build system
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23:08<zjason>jordanm: Thanks. Maybe it's time for me to upgrade to rsyslog
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23:09<jordanm>zjason: from what I understand, its just some additional features, so likely no need
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23:25<dpkg>The New Maintainer's Guide (, Developer's Reference and Policy document how packages should be made and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <policy>, <best practices> or see ,
23:26<jeremyb>i was thinking non-maintainer-something
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23:36<hardbop200>jeremyb: I'm thinking your dch -i idea is good, I just need it upgraded, and build system hasn't changed.]
23:37<hardbop200>I'll give that a try.
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23:52<jeremyb>hardbop200: huh?
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23:59<hardbop200>jeremyb: sorry, meant for jordanm
23:59<hardbop200>my bad
---Logclosed Wed Oct 13 00:00:42 2010