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#debian IRC Logs for 2010-10-25

---Logopened Mon Oct 25 00:00:24 2010
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00:06<rafael_lion>couldn't find it. guess I'll install ubuntu in a vm and see how it's configured
00:06<rafael_lion>then I'll apply the changes here
00:08<jordanm>rafael_lion: seems like a big waste of time
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00:09<rafael_lion>it might be, but I couldn't find my way around yet.
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00:13<rafael_lion>thanks for helping jordanm. I have to go now.
00:13<jordanm>rafael_lion: I am just saying.. it seems like a lot of time for something that really gives you no benefit, unless you plan to have a lot of desktop users and plan to give them particular access to certain GUI administration applications
00:13<jordanm>rafael_lion: anytime
00:13<rafael_lion>I get it
00:13<rafael_lion>I will gain no functionality
00:13<rafael_lion>but I like to see how things work :)
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00:22<bgupta>Is squeeze frozen yet? I'm building a new server for someone and am trying to decide to go with Lenny or Squeeze?
00:23<jordanm>bgupta: yes, but frozen does not mean ready for production.. at all
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00:24<bgupta>Server is a mail server.. guess it really doesn't matter. suppose I'll push him to Lenny, but it seems like a shame with it being debian -old very soon.
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00:25<jordanm>bgupta: it will be supported for a year and half or so.
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01:27<twb>Sigh. So I'm stuck on an Ubuntu 10.04 system, and it turns out Ubuntu has removed hotplug support from their udev instance. Anybody feel like helping me work out the minimal set of of Debian's udev net-agent I need to backport?
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02:24<bigmac>i have messed up my grub
02:25<bigmac>i thought that if i installed a linux to my usb stick the grup settings wwould take place on my linux stick
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02:26<bigmac>the was what i used for the install
02:27<bigmac>were do i find the grub file so maybe i can edit it?
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02:29<panchito45>need help
02:29<panchito45>need help with broadcom netxtreme II bcm5708 runnning on debian with kernell 2.6.26
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02:31<mosh>any 1 help me with warvox??
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02:33<mosh>u ok
02:33<spunks>Need to compare two source code and determine the percentage of similarity. Does anyone know any program
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02:34<jm_>!tell panchito45 about bnx2
02:34<bzed>mosh: stop this leet speak shit here and talk like a normal human person please.
02:34<spunks>file .c
02:34<spunks>need cto compare two source code .c
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02:34<temesi>mosh, i ok
02:35<bzed>spunks: actually only commercial solutions. maybe fossology, but I think that looks for licenses only
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02:35<mosh>temesi you anyting about warvox?
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02:36<bzed>mosh: warvox is not part of debian, so its completely offtopic here
02:36<temesi>I'm sorry but I know this suite
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02:37<mosh>am in the wrong im new here
02:37<bzed>mosh: yes you're wrong here.
02:37<mosh>were can i get help on my topic?
02:38<bzed>mosh: probably in #metasploit on freenode
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02:38<mosh>thank you bzed
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02:46<Fisherman>how to check plagiarism between two files. c???
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02:48<twb>Fisherman: cmp
02:49<bzed>Fisherman: asking the same a few minutes later with a different nickname won;t help.
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02:57<Fisherman>bzed twb similarity-tester installed as compare with test1.c test2.c
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02:57<bzed>Fisherman: ah guess I missed that you want to limit that to two files
02:58<Fisherman>need compare test1.c and with test2.c
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03:10<Fisherman>thankss all
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04:19<hbbs>Hi, got a problem with cron: I have a script in /etc/cron.weekly which does not run.
04:20<hbbs>The script is executable, belogs to root and works fine if started manually!
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04:20<terang>What happens when you run the script manually and can you pastebin your cron.weekly file (and sbin/cron is running? :)
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04:23<jm_>did you check that /etc/crontab contains an entry for cron.weekly? is the script named appropriately?
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04:24<terang>It'd be hard pressed to find one that didn't :D. But who knowz, craziness
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04:29<wangnan163>hi every
04:29<wangnan163>hello everybody
04:30<wangnan163>where r u from?
04:33<wangnan163>i am the new learner about ubuntu, my name is jason
04:34<mAniAk->good for you?
04:34<terang>Maybe #ubuntu would be better for you
04:35<wangnan163>thanks, i am just start my university carrer, is it diffcult?
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04:37<terang>hbbs and as jm_ said, cron.weekly is in /etc/cron.d right?
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04:38<terang>Oh and someone may be able to tell you better, but shouldn't that script be able to be executable by everyone? Not sure how cron handles that.
04:38<hbbs>jm_, crontab goes hiere: , looks good to me
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04:40<hbbs>jm_, what Do you mean by 'named appropriately'?
04:40<hbbs>terang, in cron.d? no.
04:40<hbbs>but it's dot an entry in /etc/crontab
04:40<jm_>hbbs: what happens if you run both commands manually? /etc/cron.weekly/ and test -x /usr/sbin/anacron || ( cd / && run-parts --report /etc/cron.weekly
04:41<jm_>hbbs: man run-parts, quick glance sugests it is OK
04:42<jm_>suggests even
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04:46<hbbs>jm_, if I run the script manually, it works as expected.
04:46<hbbs>jm_, if I issue the 'test -x ...', it exits without notice, but the dump file is not written
04:46<jm_>hbbs: do you have /usr/sbin/anacron ?
04:49<hbbs>/usr/sbin# ls | grep anacron exits witrhout notice
04:49<hbbs>that means, I haevn't, right?
04:49<hbbs>So installing anacron would be a possible solution?
04:50<jm_>you shouldn't need it, unless your machine was powered off at the time
04:50<jm_>right it doesn't match requried naming convention :)
04:51<jm_>that's why it doesn't run
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04:52<jm_>'.' is problematic
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04:53<mjt>"If neither the --lsbsysinit option nor the --regex option is given then the names must consist entirely of upper and lower case letters, digits, underscores, and hyphens."
04:54<mjt>this is what happens in this case
04:54<jm_>I missed the fact that it doesn't mention '.' earlier
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04:55<joel>Hi, should i install / with LVM? is there any problem with it?
04:55<hbbs>jm_, since the machine runs 24/7, installing anacron is rather pointless
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05:00<jm_>hbbs: yes, see above
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05:01<hbbs>jm_, ok, but then I have to change the lines in /etc/crontab somehow?
05:01<ansgar>joel: I think you need an extra partition for /boot in that case, but besides that there should be no problems.
05:01<jm_>hbbs: I recommend you rename your script instead
05:01<joel>ansgar: and that extra-partition should be non-lvm?
05:02<ansgar>joel: I think so. But maybe grub2 can boot from LVM as well (I don't know).
05:02<hbbs>jm_, renaming the script would not alter the evaluation of test -x /usr/sbin7anacron, right?
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05:03<jm_>hbbs: indeed, that's not the problem - you can use 'run-parts --list /etc/cron.weekly' instead
05:03<hbbs>ok, what does test -x /usr/sbin/anacron do exactly?
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05:04<hbbs>I mean, it just tests that the file is there and executable
05:04<hbbs>why is that important?
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05:06<jm_>because anacron would handle it on its own
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05:07<hbbs>I have now installed anacron
05:07<hbbs>issueing the command in crontab does still not work
05:07<mjt>so much hassles for just mv ;)
05:08<hbbs>mjt, i have renamed the script already
05:08<jm_>hbbs: does run-parts --list /etc/cron.weekly list it?
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05:09<hbbs>jm_, no
05:09<jm_>hbbs: so you haven't renamed it properly
05:10<jm_>it will work once --list will show it, and then also uninstall anacron
05:12<terang>Why does he need to uninstall anacron? Isn't it nice to just have? Or does it interfere with cron functions? I thought the two didn't intersect.
05:13<hbbs>jm_, mjt. thank you
05:13<mjt>terang: they do
05:13<mjt>terang: all std cron scripts are turned off once anacron is installed
05:13<terang>No shit./
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05:14<jm_>hbbs: no worries
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05:14<hbbs>I just didn' get the part with the naming correctly
05:15<hbbs>I undesrtand that the test -x .. expression does check if anacron is there, an if it isn't, run-parts is called
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05:20<hbbs>I'm out - have a nice day
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06:26<dpkg>well, cn is China, or for help in chinese please join #debian-zh, Please use UTF-8, for IRC help see | Qt/KDE è¿æ¸¡æå¼å§ï¼è¯¦æ请é读
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06:27<bremner>hmm. The chinese in the msg from dpkg looks broken; is that because it isn't utf8?
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06:28<jm_>it is
06:28<bzed>not here
06:28<bremner>oh, odd.
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06:28<jm_>it shows fine here in utf8
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06:29<bremner>lolo's stuff looks fine (except I don't speak chinese)
06:30<f8l>bremner: Same here. dpkg seems broken, lolo's not.
06:30<weasel>either way, #debian-zh.
06:30<f8l>lolo: /join #debian-zh
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07:13<ocean>guys i have been using ubuntu 10.4 so far and made a fresh install of ubuntu 10.10 today. My epson sx100 has been working fine on ubuntu is not detecting the printer at all when switcehd on. i had the same trouble with 10.4 once and i followed the steps in the forum and it all worked.but now even the "sudo service cups restart" is giving an error message "unknown instances". is it wise to go
07:13<ocean>ahead and do the fix to solve it?
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07:14<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
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07:17<liberan>hello. i wonder what is a difference between cd and dvd image, i tried to google it but i got only one page with explanation that didnt sound very clear to me.
07:17<liberan>i dont mind links to read about it, if you can provide one
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07:18<liberan>size? seriously? so they are not both 128kb?
07:19<weasel>the cd image has 650 megs of stuff, the dvd image has 4.3 gigs of cra^Wsoftware
07:19<liberan>considering that dvd images are 6 times bigger, what do i get with them
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07:20<liberan>more packages?
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07:20<f8l>liberan: Yes.
07:20<f8l>liberan: You'll not use most of them anyway.
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07:21<f8l>!tell liberan about netinst
07:21<liberan>so basically cd and dvd are the same, just that dvd contains more packages for offline install?
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07:23<f8l>liberan: Yes.
07:23<f8l>liberan: And you don't have to choose the DE, as all of them are there.
07:23<liberan>i am now on ubuntu, but for the learning about basic of linux system in virtualbox, i decided to download debian and maybe even install it on real hardware
07:24<liberan>in ubuntu, there is also cd or dvd, but they say that only difference is bigger language support
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07:24<liberan>so, neverminding the debian / ubuntu discussion, i wondered about explanation for cd/dvd in debian
07:24<weasel>liberan: if you have network, just fetch the CD. or even the netinst image
07:25<weasel>liberan: if you want it all on CD or DVD then you have the choice between 31 CD image or 5 DVD images.
07:25<liberan>i am man who likes to have options, so i will go with dvd, as prices of actually cd or dvd are about the same
07:26-!-mode/#debian [+l 431] by debhelper
07:26<weasel>liberan: you get all the packages over the net anyway
07:26<liberan>and you get to learn how to install packages from dvd
07:26<weasel>so there's really little point in putting them all on a dvd, imho
07:27<liberan>which one should i download
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07:27<weasel>MuzerAway: don't do that
07:27<weasel>liberan: why are you asking? you are ignoring the answers anyway
07:28<liberan>silly me, updated, i guess
07:28<f8l>liberan: No! The first one.
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07:29<f8l>liberan: You've misread. It's not updated, but update. AFAIK it doesn't even have an installer.
07:29<liberan>weasel, i wanted to know the difference, now that i know it, i want to have dvd image, i know what netinstal is, i would rather have dvd one. dont say i am ignoring the answer
07:30*liberan gives a tap on the back to weasel
07:30<f8l>liberan: I think weasel just wanted to tell you that DVD is not really a good idea.
07:30<babilen>liberan: You are aware, that the packages on the DVD are likely outdated and are going to replaced by those downloaded from the net soon anyway?
07:31<weasel>babilen: erm. no?
07:31<babilen>.. ok some might
07:31<liberan>but! fact is that i have 30 dvd's and like 6 cd, physical ones, so dvd is also better pick for me there
07:31<mjt>this is lenny, not squeeze
07:32<babilen>mjt: which still receives security updates, but I agree that the i highly overstated the amount of packages that will be upgraded after the installation
07:33<f8l>weasel: If soon is less then three months away, then babilen was right. Squeeze is about to be released, right?
07:33<mjt>(and it is the _last_ lenny image so far, hence includes all updates to date)
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07:33*mjt haven't used any cd/dvd images for about 4 years...
07:33<babilen>anyway -- that doesn't really help liberan choose the best image.
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07:34<liberan>well, as f8l stated, and download the first one , babilen
07:34<mjt>haven't used any cd/dvd at all - i even forget i have a cd/dvd drive...
07:34<mjt>heh. i don't have it ;)
07:35<babilen>liberan: Why do you want the DVD image(s) ? You can download every single package from the internet and if you do a netinstall you will only download the packages you *really* need.
07:36<babilen>You are however free to download whatever you want :)
07:36<liberan>mjt, i also use only images on my computer, but when installing on others, and even doing a clean OS install, you need to burn it (or put it on usb, but some computers dont have usb boot) to install it
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07:36<mjt>i install it over network, from pxe-boot ;)
07:37<babilen>mjt: Yeah, it is always nice to have a couple of netboot images laying around :)
07:37<mjt>i don't have any
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07:37<liberan>babilen, , we*asel also pointed that out. i will maybe go offline for month or more, so content i can use offline is preferred
07:38<babilen>liberan: Which is a very good reason to download the DVD set indeed
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07:38*liberan wonders why people are pointing him to netinstall, when that was not what he asked
07:38<f8l>babilen: A set? The first one should be enough.
07:39<mjt>enough for what?
07:39<liberan>for install?
07:39<f8l>mjt: For having most of needed packages.
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07:39<liberan>what are other 4 dvd's there then?
07:40<babilen>f8l: Not if liberan wants to install a package that is not on the first DVD while hiking in the Scottish Highlands
07:40<liberan>not that i will download all 5 of them, of course
07:40<weasel>bluray image!
07:40<themill>liberan: each image has yet more packages that you are unlikely to need. (You're unlikely to need all the packages on the 1st DVD either, which is why people are pointing you to the netinstall to save both you and the debian mirrors some bandwidth)
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07:41<liberan>i will use torrent, themill :)
07:41<themill>liberan: torrents don't change the fact that you'll be downloading lots of stuff you'll never install.
07:42<mjt>hey, let this topic rest in peace please :)
07:42<liberan>are we going in circles here..
07:42<liberan>will every next person that comes along tell me that i can use net install
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07:42<f8l>Are Debian mirrors also BitTorrent peers?
07:42<jm_>liberan: hey why not use netinst cd? or even business cd?
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07:42*jm_ laughs
07:43*liberan gives up
07:43<jm_>but honestly, maybe if you mentioned the need for offline install you wouldn't hear it so often
07:43<babilen>jm_: liberan did :)
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07:43<jm_>babilen: sure, much later
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07:45*f8l has his Transmission running only to seed Debian CDs.
07:47<liberan>jm_, actually, one of my first lines contains words "offline install"
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07:47<liberan>anyway,torrent started, thanks everyone for discussion, and special thank you for f8l
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07:48<f8l>liberan: Thanks, but I didn't earn that. ;-)
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07:51<weasel>f8l: no, they are not
07:51<weasel>f8l: bittorrent is really ugly to server systems. http is much nicer
07:52<liberan>weasel, they can always set up seed box
07:52<weasel>that doesn't change the fact that seeding is much more resource draining than a http/ftp mirror
07:52<liberan>now you are being just silly
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07:52<weasel>I'm just relaying what our mirror people tell me
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07:53<liberan>with dht you dont even need to have tracker up
07:53<weasel>tracker isn't the expensive thing. random IO is
07:53<liberan>random IO?
07:53<mjt>dig org. SOA +dnssec @ns
07:54<terang>I dunno, I could see traditional mirroring being resource-intensive and vice versa.
07:54<jm_>yeah imagine seeking with all those images
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07:54<mjt>http mirroring is usually not random-io since it downloads sequentially
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07:55<jm_>unless you're dealing with morons who start some threaded downloader ;)
07:55<terang>I was just gonna say that.
07:56<liberan>terang, i dont see a way to say torrents are resource-intensive. you have sites like legal torrents, you have open torrent trackers, you dont even need to host torrents, all you need is to provide stable seedbox to keep torrent forever alive and with very little expenses
07:56<terang>quote "weasel> tracker isn't the expensive thing. random IO is"
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07:56<liberan>load is all on peers, not on servers
07:56<mjt>the seedbox _is_ expensive
07:57<terang>Weasel and mjt were not talking about bandwidth specifics, but IO being used by the seedbox.
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07:57<mjt>or else whole thing is worthless
07:57<liberan>mjt, are not
07:59<mjt>well, my box @home can cope with ~200 peers d/loading stuff from a 5400RPM WD Green drive just fine. But I capped it to 500kbps - for debian such a seedbox is nothing.
07:59<liberan>well, it all depends, what you cant expensive . buying one average seedbox with lots of bandwidth is not expensive, specially for such big thing as debian
07:59*terang facepalms
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08:00<needhelp>Hy everyone, one question how do I force arp request for a certain mac address via command line?
08:01<mjt>where do you want to store results? :)
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08:01<weasel>500kbps is also useless.
08:01<needhelp>Well in fact what I would like to do is to know which IP is associated to the mac address
08:01<mjt>it's what i said :)
08:02<jm_>needhelp: arp -n and see
08:02<mjt>needhelp: ping it and kernel will send arp if there's no info already present.
08:02<weasel>(or ip n)
08:03<needhelp>mjt and jm_ sorry maybe I did not ask it correctly I know the mac but I do not know the ip, I would like to know the ip
08:03<jm_>needhelp: try arping
08:04<liberan>weasel, 500 is very good, i had 900mb torrent that got in a day seeded over 100% and for some time there were stable 50 seeds on it, and i have 30kb upload speeds
08:04<needhelp>jm_ thanks I will try it
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08:06<needhelp>jm_ arping is the tool I was looking for, thanks anyway it complains about unknow host maybe is disconnected right now... well that's what I think
08:06<jm_>needhelp: or unreachable by it maybe
08:07<needhelp>jm_ right!
08:07<liberan>maybe i am overreacting, but in all these years i am using torrents i never heard such thing that they are using lots of resources and that they are heavy on the servers
08:08<weasel>maybe you haven't done a debian release yet.
08:08<weasel>just guessing tho
08:08<liberan>here is one seedbox i googled, one of first results on google: is that too much to pay?
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08:11<liberan>yes, should have disconnected when i first heard that, i will never learn ..
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08:13<themill>liberan: You might like to look down the list of people at and understand who you are arguing with. It might be worth considering the size of the debian project as well.
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08:19<liberan>themill, i understand the size, and i know that basing a releases on torrents will dramatically cut the expenses, and bigger the project, more saving
08:19*themill gives up too
08:20<liberan>will not go over some list who i am arguing when im downloading torrents for last 5 years
08:21<liberan>damn, all i asked: what is difference between cd and dvd
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08:26<Lantizia>Hey, where can I find information on how to package my application? (not submit it, just learning the packaging process for now)
08:26<Lantizia>including source package and binary packages
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08:27<dpkg>The New Maintainer's Guide (, Developer's Reference and Policy document how packages should be made and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <policy>, <best practices> or see ,
08:27<Lantizia>but I'm not about being a maintainer
08:28<mjt>what's the difference?
08:31<i5noc>Basically themill was right.
08:31<i5noc>you are being a package maintainer on a limited level...
08:31<i5noc> <package basics>, and <best practices> apply at minimum...
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08:44<Dominus>Hi. do you know any guides on how to setup a proxy server on a linux debian 5.0 CLI server?
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08:46<ompaul>Dominus: install squid and read how to adopt it do your needs
08:46<rpetre>Dominus: if you use squid, the default squid.conf in Debian is pretty thoroughly commented
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08:46<Prins>Sorry, my internet just burped :b
08:46<Prins>ompaul: Thx
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08:46<Prins>also thank you rpetre :)
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08:47<Prins>CGI = ?
08:48<Prins>Oh. Found out.
08:48<rpetre>Prins: in my experience, you'd need to add one or two acl's for local network (see the acl command) and permit access from them (the http_access command)
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08:49<Prins>Hmm.. Okay, I'll try installing squid. Squid3 is just a newer version of squid, right?
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08:49<ompaul>Prins: you install the squid that comes with your version and you will be fine - that is patched over time - this is why it gets to be called stable
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08:51<Prins>in apt-cache it lists both squid and squid3
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08:51<Prins>so wouldn't it be smartest just to install squid3?
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08:57<rpetre>Prins: iirc squid3 is a rewrite of squid2 so it might be possible to have some differences in configs and maybe behaviours. i think as far as you keep that in mind you should be fine woth any of them
08:58<Prins>ok ty. I will try installing squid3, and see what happens :)
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08:58<mjt>i tried squid3 2 or 3 times, each time facing one or another problem.
08:59<mjt>it does not work with some sites
08:59<mjt>i don't remember details already. something about wrong content encoding or content length
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09:00<bzed>mjt: are you using IE?
09:00<mjt>ah, here we go: #501192
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09:01<bzed>mjt: ah, IIS was the buggy part, not IE
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09:03<mjt>so it's fixed now as far as i can see
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09:06<Mrkva>I have a question - is there anything like "pre/post-suspend" initrd?
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09:07<bzed>Mrkva: what do you mean by that?
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09:07<mjt>there's no such thing :)
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09:13<Mrkva>okay, I'll explain... I need to suspend debia box to ram sometimes. I have some sensitive data on it so I have encrypted filesystem. but when computer is suspended, the coldboot attack can easily be performed. I've tried the following method: mount tmpfs to somewhere, copy required files to it, mount dev, proc, sys there, chvt to unused tty, chroot to mountpoint, call cryptsetup luksSuspend, but of course system freeze after that
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09:13<mjt>coldboot attack ?
09:14<mjt>how it's different from fresh booting?
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09:15<Mrkva>attacker removes your RAM and get password from it :)
09:15<mjt>it can be done without suspend-to-ram
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09:16<Mrkva>of course. but I don't leave my computer unattended in running state
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09:31<rpetre>Mrkva: you can run some hook scripts on suspend/resume
09:31<rpetre>i have used the hibernate program and package for this, but i think you can put them somewhere in /etc/apm
09:32<rpetre>Mrkva: also, make sure any swap files or partitions are on the encrypted disk
09:33<Mrkva>rpetre: the point is I can't. because the moment I call luksSuspend all IO attempts to my system will freeze. that means no / - and that means I'm screwed
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09:37<Mrkva>classical chroot doesn't work either - because the kernel's root won't change
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10:38<view666>is there anyone else?
10:40<jordanm>view666: try /who
10:40<petemc>or /names
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10:49<glock>I have the Mobility Radeon 9600 M10 graphics card which lost support a couple of years ago and I was wondering if there are any drivers that I can use for it
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10:50<jordanm>glock: radeon probably does
10:50<Silicium01>What happens when you connect a Linux laptop to a larger monitor?
10:50<glock>I look they dropped support
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10:50<Silicium01>Is resolution adjusted automatically?
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10:51<glock>But, regardless I can-\'t find any
10:51<petemc>Silicium01: too many variables
10:51<Silicium01>petemc, I have been trying to find a suitable laptop for weeks, and have not been able to
10:52<petemc>whats preventing you?
10:52<Silicium01>All I need is 15.4 or .6 laptop capable of 1600 x 900 or more res and Debian compatible
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10:53<Silicium01>petemc, being unsure about compatibility and ability to plug it into a large monitor
10:53<jordanm>1600x900 is quite high for a 15.4" laptop
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10:53<Lantizia>Is there any way of getting the script or the instructions on how a source package was built? (i.e. how it went from being the original developers tarball to the debian source package)
10:53<Silicium01>jordanm, well, Thinkpad W500 for example has 1920 x 1200 on a 15.4 inch screen
10:53<babilen>Silicium01: (i) get a thinkpad and (ii) the display is typically recognised and the configuration can be typically easily adapted with (e.g.) xrandr or DE specific tools (control-center→monitors in GNOME for example)
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10:53<Silicium01>I guess it's usable?
10:54<jordanm>Silicium01: thinkpads generally have really good support, but I have seen exceptions
10:54<dpkg>All there is worth knowing about Linux and laptops can be found at and . For Thinkpads, ask me about <thinkpad>. Also ask me about <acpi>, <laptop mode>, <netbook>, <pcmcia>, <suspend>. . See also the debian-laptop mailing list:
10:54<Silicium01>dpkg thinkpad
10:54<dpkg>[thinkpad] one of the best laptops you can buy, or a thing that dies when your car hits it, according to abrotman. Some models restrict MiniPCI card use, see . See also <hdapsd>, <martian>, <mwavem>, <slmodem>, <synaptics>, <tpb>, <trackpoint>. ##ibmthinkpad on
10:55<babilen>Silicium01: The T510 also fits your specifications --
10:55<Lantizia>i.e. something that actually documented.... well we took the version BLAH off the original developer... then we fixed this that and the other... then re wrote this control file... we did this for that reason... did the other for that reason... or even just a script... a recipe for taking the original source tarball and turning into a debian source tarball --- there must be SOMETHING so that being don't go insane every time a new release comes out
10:55<Silicium01>babilen, I'll have a look at that model too. This makes things easier :)
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10:57<Silicium01>have you guys used 1920 x 1200 on a 15.6 inch screen? I'm curious to know if it's even usable?
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10:57<Lantizia>e.g. what script/instructions/person took asterisk- from Digium and turned it in to asterisk_1.6.2.9-2.debian.tar.gz
10:57<jordanm>Lantizia: if its built in an usual way, they should include a README.souce
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10:58<jordanm>Lantizia: person, you can via aptitude who asterisk, and look at the Maintainer: field
10:58<Lantizia>jordanm, but how does a readme automate that repackaging?
10:58<jordanm>Lantizia: packaging is not automated
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10:58<jordanm>there a helper scripts, but not automated at all
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10:59<Lantizia>ok so where I can find/see the helper script that was used?
10:59<jordanm>Lantizia: you can't. but if want to see the helper scripts used for building, its a makefile debian/rules
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11:00<Lantizia>no not for compiling... for repackaging the source
11:00<jordanm>Lantizia: what is your objective here? to learn how packaging is done?
11:00<jordanm>Lantizia: what do you mean repackaging?
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11:00<Lantizia>from asterisk- to asterisk_1.6.2.9-2.debian.tar.gz
11:00<mjt>that's in .diff.gz
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11:01<Lantizia>mjt, _was_ was in diff
11:02<Lantizia>they don't exist sid onwards
11:02<Lantizia>sorry squeeze onwards
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11:02<mjt>oh. i were asleep all this time :)
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11:03<jordanm>Lantizia: the .debian.tar.gz is using source format 3.0
11:03<Lantizia>yeah but it doesn't really give you what compiled that thing together
11:03<jordanm>Lantizia: in includes the debian directory that is applied to upstream tarball, then patches from debian/patches/series are applied to the upstream sources
11:04<jordanm>Lantizia: again, what is the goal here?
11:04<Lantizia>ok I'm seeing that
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11:05<Lantizia>I wanna learn the packaging process from the original asterisk packages to debian source packages... so I can maintain my own asterisk/debian repository
11:05<Lantizia>since asterisk changes version so much (with many bugs always being fixed) I can rely on the slower debian releases
11:05<jordanm>Lantizia: why do you want to maintain your own untrusted repository?
11:05<Lantizia>but I want the freedom to compile it with different options
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11:06<Lantizia>yet at the same time understand the reasons why debian has chosen to change some things
11:06<jordanm>Lantizia: then you really need to read the new maintainers guide to understand how packaging works
11:06<jordanm>Lantizia: complain to the maintainer, file bugs, etc
11:06<jordanm>you already have the freedom to edit debian/rules and recompile with your own options
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11:07<Lantizia>jordanm, yeah I've done that before
11:07<jordanm>!tell Lantizia about nmg
11:07<Lantizia>already seen it thanks
11:07<jordanm>Lantizia: I would suggest reading it again
11:07<Lantizia>i don't want to actually maintain it for debian, I realise the pace debian goes at - it goes at for a reason
11:07<Lantizia>I just need to set up a repo that has a more up to date build
11:08<jordanm>without learning how to do it, right?
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11:12<themill>Lantizia: every maintainer looks after their packages in slightly different ways, usually using a VCS of some sort to help. The NMG shows how to update to a new upstream release without the use of a VCS helper; svn-buildpackage and git-buildpackage are two commonly used ones that you could use instead. There's documentation for those helpers both on the debian wiki and in their respective packages.
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11:18<themill>(who'd have thought that the people who pointed you towards the new maintainer's guide might actually have known what was in it and done so quite deliberately?)
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11:41<redbullfx>hey everyone
11:41<redbullfx>Anyone help me out...
11:41<EmleyMoor>What can I best do to reduce my wireless network's susceptibility to interference?
11:41<Gathond>EmleyMoor: replace it with a wire:)
11:42<Gathond>EmleyMoor: more seriously the best thing you can do is probably to check the channel with the least interferrence and use that
11:42<EmleyMoor>Gathond: That would negate the wirelessness
11:42<bzed>redbullfx: you're wrong here, please ask in #ubuntu
11:42<Gathond>EmleyMoor: do note however that this is very likely to change as other wireless networks do the same
11:43<EmleyMoor>I have tried all 4 channels that my AP recommends
11:43<Gathond>EmleyMoor: IF your devices supprt 5GHz operation, that may have less noise
11:43<bzed>redbullfx: #ubuntu on the freenode network, to be exact
11:43<redbullfx>i tired there..but nobody knows what to do
11:43<EmleyMoor>Gathond: Regrettably my access point does not
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11:45<jhutchins_lt>EmleyMoor: Any idea what the source of the noise is? Is it an actual problem with your connection?
11:46-!-mode/#debian [+l 445] by debhelper
11:46<babilen>redbullfx: Unfortunately Ubuntu is not supported in here -- Install Debian and see if you run into the same problem and enjoy support in #debian :)
11:46<EmleyMoor>If it's my side of things I blame squeeze - reliability of the connection dropped when I went to that
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11:47<EmleyMoor>Other than that, I live in a small block of flats - 10 other wireless networks are visible
11:47<vsadnik>Какой торрент-клиент лучше всего использовать под Дебианом?
11:47<dpkg>Russian speakers, please use (Pogalujsta, zajdite na) (Pazhaluista, zahodite na) #debian-russian @ or use English here.
11:48<vsadnik>O'k, thx
11:49<babilen>vsadnik: Also a "apt-cache search torrent client" might come up with a bunch of good choices. I personnaly recomment "transmission"
11:50<babilen>vsadnik: (And apologies if I misunderstood/interpreted/translated your question :)
11:50<EmleyMoor>I could see "torrent" in there as it happens
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11:51<vsadnik>You correctly understand my question, thanks
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12:31<diederik>Hello, I want to setup/install a 64-bit environment (amd64) next to my i386 (dual boot, actually triple since I have windows)
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12:32<diederik>Can I share my home directory between the two or is that (really) unwise?
12:32<diederik>main reason is sharing documents/email/etc
12:34<Gathond>diederik: you can do that
12:34<babilen>diederik: I would think that doing so poses no problem. I haven't tried that though (and this only holds true if "the two == 32bit/64bit Debian" )
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12:34<Gathond>diederik: some programs MAY misbehave, but most fileformats should be the same in both versions
12:35<diederik>babilen: yes, bot Debian and both KDE (insofar that's relevant)
12:35<diederik>Gathond: thanks
12:35<babilen>diederik: I meant as opposed to: "Windows and Debian 64bit" ;)
12:36<jhutchins_lt>diederik: On the other hand sharing home between two releases of debian - lenny and squeeze, with two versions of KDE could be a problem.
12:36<babilen>diederik: But why do you opt for such a strange layout?
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12:37<diederik>jhutchins_lt: both will be running Sid
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12:37<diederik>babilen: Not sure what you mean. I have 32-bit Windows XP, 32-bit Debian Sid and want to add 64-bit Debian Sid to the list
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12:38<babilen>diederik: Why do you want to do this? Don't you think that there are better ways to achieve whatever it is you want to achieve? (virtual machine, chroot, 64bit kernel+32bit userland, …)
12:39<diederik>I want to figure out/test whether there is a bug in my CPU and get some experience with 64 bit
12:39<babilen>diederik: Ok, fair enough. I don't want to stop you from doing that, just wanted to point out a couple of alternatives :)
12:40<jhutchins_lt>babilen: Sounds perfectly sensible to me (except for the sid part). That's how I test squeeze.
12:40<diederik>babilen: but they seem harder to me, although I have to dive into chroot and other stuff as well
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12:41<babilen>diederik: Yeah, off you go and have fun. (I would reconsider the sid choice though)
12:41<diederik>and iirc I can't run a 64bit virtual machine on a 32bit OS (the other way around can)
12:41<diederik>what's wrong with sid?
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12:41<babilen>diederik: Yeah, you could switch to amd64 (kernel) and install a bunch of virtual machines ...
12:41<zeev>Hi, I have debian lenny... how can I get source code of package X ? ( 1) which command do I have to run and 2) where will the source code land?)
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12:42<retrospectacus>zeev: apt-get source packagename, and .
12:42<babilen>zeev: 1. "apt-get source <pkg>" 2. Current working directory
12:42<zeev>thank you!
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12:44<babilen>zeev: Note that you need appropriate "deb-src" lines in your sources.list for that though
12:45<zeev>hmmm... should I take package or package-dev if I want to check for a bug?
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12:51<zeev>babilen: together with source code I got a diff.gz file - whats that? and what I should I do with it?
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12:54<diederik>does someone have good pointer related to chroot and 64bit kernel + 32bit userland?
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12:55<zeev>is diff.gz some kind of patch that I have to apply to the downloaded source code? if yes - how?
12:56<zeev>(with apt-get source pkg)
12:57<retrospectacus>I don't think so zeev... it's probably part of the way the package is distributed, and was already applied. Not sure, you could read the diff with zless and check the code to see if it's been applied
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12:58<zeev>thank you!
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13:05<rgp2>any gurus around for newbie?
13:06<pipe>You mean one that knows everything?
13:06<rgp2>nay, just one that knows more than ME!
13:06<pipe>Someone that even knows what you are going to ask?
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13:07<supplicant>!ask | rgp2
13:07<rgp2>just loaded debian using cd 1-3, but can't get wireless card to's been working fine under ubuntu
13:08<pipe>Works fine for me
13:08<supplicant>rgp2: what is the card?
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13:08<rgp2>oh you would have to ask that supplicant, wouldn't you hahahaha.
13:09*pipe thinks someone should reduce his medication
13:09<dpkg>Support for your wireless LAN device is dependent on the chipset within. Don't know what you have? Ask me about <what's my wireless>. Atheros: <atheros>; Atmel: <atmel>; Broadcom: <b43>, <brcm80211>, <wl>; Intel: <ipw2100>, <ipw2200>, <iwlwifi>, <iwlagn>; Intersil: <prism>; Marvell: <marvell>; Ralink: <ralink>; Realtek: <rtl-wifi>; TI: <acx>; ZyDAS: <zydas>. See also: <wlan howto>, <wpa>, <killswitch>.
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13:10<rgp2>i remember it does use realtek
13:10<supplicant>!what's my wireless
13:10<dpkg>Install the hwinfo package and execute "/usr/sbin/hwinfo --wlan", or , or ask me about <whats my hardware>. See also <wireless>.
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13:12<rgp2>implication is i have to load drivers for that wlan at some point, and it's not auto when i install debian?
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13:12<cahoot>rgp2: the implication is: you should follow the pointers you've got
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13:13<rgp2>i see the rtl818x listed in the wiki.
13:13<jhutchins_lt>!why debian | rgp2
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13:14<jhutchins_lt>!tell rgp2 about why debian
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13:15<rgp2>just don't understand why it worked fine with different distro. hopefully the wiki will guide me to the races again - thanks guys/gals
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14:32<tranquil>any one here to help
14:32<tranquil>i cant get giachi
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14:32<tranquil>i cant get gyachi
14:32<tranquil>i did sudo apt-get update
14:32<tranquil>n then sudo apt-get gyachi
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14:33<tranquil>it said : Couldn't find package gyachi
14:33<Dominus>aren't you supposed to do apt-get install gyachi?
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14:33<tranquil>i did it
14:33<tranquil>wait i copy
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14:33<tranquil>1. sudo add-apt-repository ppa:loell/ppa
14:34<themill>tranquil: sounds like you want #ubuntu on
14:34<tranquil>2. sudo apt-get update
14:34<tranquil>oh ok
14:34<tranquil>i go there
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14:34<Dominus>lol, i fail at helping people ^___^
14:34<tranquil>Dominus: may i pm u?
14:34<tranquil>i have tried that since last night
14:35<tranquil>same problem occured.
14:35<Dominus>umm.. sure
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14:41<jacks_lt>on my server I didn't choose for 'mailserver', which packages do I need for it?
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14:44<dbldtx>jacks_lt; this one's outdated, but: Something like that?
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14:45<dbldtx> is another one, perhaps?
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14:49<Mrkva>is there any way to "fake" package is installed? like package.provided in Gentoo?
14:50<koollman>Mrkva: equivs . not as simple as package.provided, though
14:51<themill>Mrkva: equivs. But that's the fastest way to making a mess....
14:51<jacks_lt>dbldtx: thx
14:51<babilen>jacks_lt: You should already have exim4 installed, which is a good choice. You can see the list of packages that would have been installed with a "tasksel --task-packages mail-server"
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14:51<Mrkva>themill: I only need this for my kernel :)
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14:51<Mrkva>and yes, I know about make-kpkg :)
14:52<themill>Mrkva: nothing should depend on the kernel package for this precise reason
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14:54<Mrkva>I've got it
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14:54<s4br3>Hi, after totally reinstalling my entire system on new hard drives I am surpised at one thing. The system is installed on an SSD disk with a 2nd SATA as sdb. But once I add another larger SATA w IDE interface disk it gets the name sda
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14:54<s4br3>and the others get the names sdb and sdc. Is that the correct way?!
14:55<Mrkva>s4br3: thats exactly the reason why you should use UUID instead of devices
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14:58<Mrkva>s4br3: exactly
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14:59<s4br3>Thanks. How long has this been around?! I haven't upgraded my HD since 2006, but was forced to because of a clicking sound...
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15:00<Mrkva>hm, don't know
15:00<Mrkva>few years for sure :)
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15:01<Mrkva>themill: okay, virtualbox package depends :)
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15:01<Mrkva>(non-ose version)
15:01<Mrkva>well, they don't provide secure way to get their repository key
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15:02<Mrkva>I'll just install ose version. thanks
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15:04<s4br3>Strange, the command "vol_id /dev/sda1" gives "command not found"
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15:05<Mrkva>s4br3: so check /dev/disk/by-uuid
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15:07<s4br3>Thanks! So those long "names" (UUIDs) should actually go into a new fstab?
15:08<Mrkva>yes... to fstab instead of device name put: UUID=strange-hexa-code
15:08<jacks_lt>what is needed to be able to sent such a message: mail -s "Rdiff-backup is already running, backup aborted"
15:09<babilen>!tell s4br3 -about uuid
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15:11<s4br3>Thank you all for your help!!!
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15:21<Cornelius>hey guys, i remember there is a possibility to execute commands as root while being logged in as a different users. It was something using sudo or something but I don't quite remember. Could someone give me a hint..?
15:21<Mrkva>Cornelius: sudo cmd
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15:21<Cornelius>and then i enter the root pw?
15:22<Mrkva>user pw
15:22<petemc>you need to configure sudo first
15:22<dpkg>[sudo] (Substitute User DO) Not enabled by default on Debian systems; configure /etc/sudoers first, ask me about <visudo>, <sudoers>. sudo can give limited super user privileges to specific users, or allow you to do silly things like run X apps with root permissions, or good in scripts with "username ALL = NOPASSWD: /some/program".
15:22<Cornelius>aah i think that s the problem
15:22<franki^>Those links should hopefully answer your questions.
15:23<Cornelius>ok thanks heaps
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15:28<Cornelius>do i have to enter visudo -f sudoers or visudo -f etc/sudoers?
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15:29<Cornelius>ah forget about it
15:29<Cornelius>i found out myself
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15:30<Cornelius>sorry :)
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15:36<Dominus>I was wondering, in my shell the username or whatever it is, is 'root@euve10855' and I was wondering if it is possible to change that?
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15:36<supplicant>Dominus: root is your user, euve10855 is your hostname
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15:37<Dominus>hmm.. so I can't change it?
15:37<Dominus>unless i change user and hostname :/
15:37<supplicant>you can change the prompt that is displayed
15:37<ml|>and/or the hostname
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15:38<Dominus>thank you very much :)
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15:39<ml|>Dominus: also... /msg dpkg hostname
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15:42<Dominus>ml|: thanks
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16:13<mib_r0iawy>i want to install a new debian server tomorrow with an advanced configuration including dns
16:14<mib_r0iawy>but i would like to know how long it could take till debian 6 squeeze
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16:21<ml|>mib_r0iawy: when it's ready ;)
16:21<mib_r0iawy>i know that, but i like to know if it takes day's or month's
16:22<ml|>dpkg: 8ball
16:22<dpkg>As I see it, yes.
16:22<mib_r0iawy>if it takes a couple of months, then i install debian lenny
16:23-!-gouki [] has joined #debian
16:23<mib_r0iawy>otherwhise i wait till the next release
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16:24<ml|>most likely a ~month or two from now would be my guess; I would just install lenny and upgrade later after reading the release notes
16:25<mib_r0iawy>ok, thank you!
16:25<mib_r0iawy>i really appreciate you're help!
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16:50<Dominus>how do i create a new user?
16:50<Dominus>and log in to it?
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16:50<Torsten_W>Dominus, adduser
16:51<Dominus>tyvm. how do i switch between users?
16:51<Torsten_W>logout ==> login?
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16:53<Dominus>it's a server
16:53<Dominus>I just want to switch from root to normal user
16:53<Dominus>isn't that possible? :/
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16:53<babilen>Dominus: su <username> works as well -- although you might want to use "su - <username>" actually, see the manpage
16:53<Torsten_W>what's the problem with logging out root and then logging in as user?
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16:56<supplicant>or just connecting at the same time with the other user?
16:56<Gathond>or with just using su as already suggested if it is just CLI
16:57<Dominus>Thank you everyone ^__^
16:57<Dominus>I will use su i think
16:58<babilen>Dominus: Make sure you read the manpage to understand the difference between "su USER" and "su - USER"
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16:59<Torsten_W>if we speak about a server, i would permit root login ;)
17:00<Torsten_W>and not doing su from root to switch to an user-account
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17:00<Gathond>Torsten_W: would not permit?
17:00<babilen>yeah -- would *not* permit is a much saner default :)
17:01<Torsten_W>hu, yes
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17:09<Dominus>babilen: yeah, i will.
17:09<Dominus>actually i have
17:09<Dominus>and i don't get it. so i will read it again :D
17:10<Dominus>Provide an environment similar to what the user would've expected if the user had logged in directly.. like... what?
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17:13<babilen>Dominus: You will not only change your UID, but also execute certain script typically run when you open a login shell (like .profile)
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17:19<babilen>Dominus: ← table that summarises that
17:19<Dominus>babilen: ooh, now i get it
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17:20<babilen>Great :)
17:20<Dominus>ty ^___^
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17:29<idcor>Short question: Are there any downsides to performance if I run a minimal debian (no X) from a USB stick instead of a hard drive if I have 1GB RAM?
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17:31<Dominus>Is there a newer version of debian than 5.0.3
17:32<babilen>Dominus: yes
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18:09<retrospectacus>I cannot seem to access my cdrom drives
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18:10<retrospectacus>fstab says it should be /dev/hda but no such file. Also no dev/sr* or /dev/cd*
18:10<retrospectacus>nothing in dmesg
18:15<cthuluh>perhaps /dev/hdc ?
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18:15<retrospectacus>/dev/hd*: No such file or directory
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18:22<cthuluh>retrospectacus: try gathering informations with hwinfo --cdrom
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18:25<retrospectacus>that program appears not to output newlines properly.. :s ??
18:25<retrospectacus>I cannot see its output
18:25<cthuluh>that's because he didn't find anything
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18:26<cthuluh>try with --video or other switches
18:27<babilen>retrospectacus: Does the BIOS see the drive?
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18:28<retrospectacus>video was invalid but "block" and "sound" gave me reasonable output
18:29<cthuluh>on systems with a working cdrom drive, hwinfo --cdrom gives output. on my system with a non-working cdrom drive, the result is no output
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18:29<retrospectacus>babilen: I don't know, I'm not really prepared for a reboot
18:30<retrospectacus>in that case I have 2 non-working cdrom drives
18:30<babilen>retrospectacus: What kind of preparation do you need? I just asked, because it is a waste of time to debug this on the Debian side if the drive is not even recognised by the BIOS
18:32<retrospectacus>well this is my work 'station, I have a lot of things on the go, also I'd like to upgrade my kernel and some other stuff if I'm doing a reboot...
18:33<babilen>... hibernate?
18:34<babilen>although you shouldnt hibernate and boot with a newer kernel, so there is no way to satisfy your "only reboot for kernel upgrades" need
18:35<rpetre>if you boot with a different kernel than the one you hibernated, it won't recognize the memory dump (or what it's called, i forget) and boot merrily (although the filesystems will need to be fsck-ed since it looks like you just pulled the plug)
18:38<retrospectacus>maybe I'll try hibernate. Will the resume-ing system take action on the "new" hardware? Presuming the cdroms are disabled in the bios
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18:39<themill>rpetre: boot merrily? last time I looked, it would just refuse to boot until you added "noresume" to your kernel command line :(
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18:39<retrospectacus>I'll leave the kernel for now
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18:41<babilen>retrospectacus: Just to make this clear: It is OK to reboot, no need to be afraid of it. People who are using Windows (used?) to do it very frequently ;)
18:42<amphi>retrospectacus: resume generally dislikes intensely hw changes
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18:42<rpetre>themill: i'll have to check my grub settings to confirm, but as far as i know it works for me (i remember i had a kernel upgrade after it boots and puzzles me for a few seconds why it didn't resumed)
18:43<themill>rpetre: might be a difference between uswsusp and the in-kernel routines.
18:43<amphi>rpetre: I have 'enjoyed' that too - thus I generally reboot straight after a kernel upgrade
18:43<retrospectacus>babilen: I know it's not a huge deal, I just have like 40 windows open, many many open ssh sessions, unsaved work, etc.
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18:44<amphi>retrospectacus: rebooting is always traumatic, I find, but sometimes needs must ;)
18:44<retrospectacus>that's why I would like to upgrade while I'm at it
18:44<amphi>I've booted twice in four days now, I'm feeling quite shaken
18:45<retrospectacus>rough times... I've 68 days uptime
18:45<amphi>!comfort amphi
18:45<dpkg>There, there, amphi. It's OK. I'm here for you.
18:46<rpetre>meh, the "don't reboot" mantra applies only as a counter to the "when in doubt, reboot" school of thought that windows users tend to have, after a while it's ok to let it go and reboot as nedded. AS NEEDED! :)
18:46<amphi>rpetre: of course
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18:47<rpetre>that being said, most hardware problems and a few software ones tend to appear at system boot so always be prepared for longer downtime ;)
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19:04<retrospectacus>I borrowed an external CD-rom drive :)
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19:12<r0ger>i keep reading that in order to have drupal's mail working, i'd have to set up the mailserver configuration in the php.ini file
19:12<r0ger>i think that is a terrible configuration as i don't want all my sites using the same mailserver
19:13<r0ger>is there a better way to only interface the mail server with drupal for the drupal install on a debian box?
19:13<r0ger>my mail server is actually hosted on another machine atm, though that could be changed if the remote connection complicates things considerably
19:14<r0ger>but i'm really trying to avoid making the mail server available to any website i host
19:14<themill>r0ger: there is no configuration at all for php's mail() function under linux. Sending mail is a thing that the server can do, not individual applications.
19:15<r0ger>so how do i interface with an external mail server?
19:15<themill>(well, you can set sendmail_from but that's not really that useful for this)
19:15<r0ger>would it be better for me to setup a mailserver locally?
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19:16<themill>r0ger: every unix machine should have a local mail server; /msg dpkg why and mta
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19:16<retrospectacus>that's "why an mta"
19:16<themill>err yes
19:17<themill>r0ger: there are also separate php mail packages available that try to do the SMTP directly. They still should just palm the mail off to a smart host somewhere though. Whether drupal can use them or not I don't know.
19:17<r0ger>i might just setup an mta locally
19:18<r0ger>any suggestions on a simple and secure mta?
19:18<r0ger>i think exim is default?
19:19<rpetre>r0ger: whatever you know best, everyone has his favorites
19:19<retrospectacus>exim is the default and a good suggestion
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21:04<phsantos>boa noite
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21:17<pericles>alguem quer tc
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21:26<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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22:05<bigmac>hi, i have a question... im about install a new linux... i was looking at linux mint debian or linux mint kde... im not realy sure whats difference
22:05<dpkg>Linux Mint is a distribution based on <Ubuntu>, which also has a "Linux Mint Debian Edition" (LMDE) available, based on <testing>. Neither is supported in #debian. Please use the support forums at or join #linuxmint-help on for support. See also <based on Debian>.
22:06<bigmac>i thought they were all debian
22:06<bigmac>my mind is still thinking like a windows user
22:07<babilen>bigmac: Why not use the original? (i.e. Debian)
22:09<streuner>bigmac: there exist a Debian KDE version which has KDE as DE, but thats a wild guess about your question. I just dont have any idea about mint...
22:11<bigmac>well, my question is not about mint, more about whats debian, whats kde, whats xfce... etc... my understanding is its all gui settings or eye candy
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22:13<bigmac>lol i think i get it...
22:14<streuner>KDE looks like a modern GUI, like windows, thats the trend
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22:15<streuner>Debian has many DE's (KDE, GNOME, etc etc) too
22:15<franki^>Don't XFCE and Gnome look modern too?
22:15<streuner>he asked for KDE...
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22:15<streuner>specially for mint KDE
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22:16<bigmac>so its all just eye candy?
22:16<franki^>No, they're graphical environments
22:16<babilen>bigmac: Not only eye candy, because Desktop Environments (henceforth DE) also define the way in which you interact with your computer.
22:16<franki^>Without them you don't get any clicking :)
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22:18<babilen>bigmac: The problem you are probably facing is that there are a million choices on Linux and have no idea what you (could) want
22:18<bigmac>i guess i need to try them all
22:18<babilen>bigmac: Good luck :)
22:18<streuner>good luck
22:18<bigmac>or at least try kde, gnome,xfce and so on...
22:18<franki^>I'd start with Gnome or KDE and then work your way through the less-used ones
22:19<babilen>agreed, although LXDE or XFCE are good choices as well
22:19<franki^>Yeah, personally I don't use Gnome or KDE, but I think that's probably the best place for someone overwhelmed by Linuxness. :)
22:19<babilen>(not to mention xmonad, fluxbox or wmii)
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22:21<babilen>bigmac: Do you have experience with Linux? (regardless of the distribution)
22:21<streuner>if he have to ask about KDE?
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22:21<babilen>streuner: hence my question :)
22:22<bigmac>yes, for about 6 months i have been messing up sevrole installs lol... im getting the hang of things but i still cant find that system32 directory lol
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22:22<streuner>bigmac: just install Debian, if you are able to read you should able to use it
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22:23<streuner>if that was a joke, it was a not a good one
22:23<bigmac>i always get my computer set up just the way i like it, then i mess things up and applications stop working and i cant undo things...
22:24<babilen>bigmac: backups might help
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22:24<bigmac>i was thinking about splitting my hardrive for media
22:24<streuner>thats a usual case, even if you have experiences with ANY OS
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22:24<babilen>bigmac: What do you mean?
22:25<bigmac>sda1, sda2.... if i choose to install the OS to sda2 and use sda1 for all my movies then in the future if i need to reformat i can keep my movies
22:26<babilen>yeah, good idea. (I would personally also recommend to use LVM as it allows you to resize "partitions").
22:26<dpkg>The Debian Installation Guide for Lenny (5.0.6) can be found at . See also <errata> and <installer firmware>.
22:26<bigmac>150 gigs, 20 for os and the rest for movies... im not sure what the structure should look like... sda1,sda2,sda3,sda4
22:26<bigmac>lvm for the media?
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22:27<babilen>bigmac: For everything -- But I would just start reading the installation guide. It is all explained in there in great detail.
22:28<streuner>bigmac: why not partition the HD, and make a backup?
22:29<streuner>bigmac: most installers of any OS supports to install the OS itself specially to the needed partition then
22:30<streuner>bigmac: but, as babilien already told you, a backup is always helpful
22:30<bigmac>i have been backing things up to my network smb drive, but when you have 50 gigs ofmovies on the labtop its kinda of trouble to transfer
22:30<streuner>or the data is not important
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22:30<streuner>extern USB HD
22:30<streuner>they are cheap nowadays
22:32<bigmac>yes the installers have the partitioning tool in one of the steps, so it should be simple to acomplish this media backup lvm
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22:33<bigmac>for the ammount of installs i have been threw im sick of transfering files from hd to hd... im just looking for a simple fix
22:33<bigmac>or a simple work around... start from scratch
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22:34<bigmac>your guys help is appreciated, i will try out debian...
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22:36<jpinx-eeepc>wtf was he running to reinstall everytime?
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22:37<babilen>no idea and too late to ask (or point him to the netinst)
22:38<streuner>if someone asked about mint, not knowing what #d is for...?
22:39<streuner>it might be *bunt* :-P
22:41<streuner>(he dont have any idea about partition, so it seems to me, so could be every OS/distro)
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22:41<streuner>bigmac: jpinx-eeepc> wtf was he running to reinstall everytime?
22:42<bigmac>what did i do to screw up my linux and reinstall?
22:42<streuner>we have no idea
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22:42<streuner>you should give us more details
22:42<bigmac>a few things,
22:42<streuner>bigmac: what kind of distro did you use?
22:43<streuner>(did you read the install-guide, babilen told you before)
22:44<streuner>you should read that first
22:44<bigmac>linux mint kde, mint xfce, ubbunntu, backtrack 2,3,4,4r1....
22:44<bigmac>not in that order...
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22:46<bigmac>my main problem is installing software that dont work and also breaks other applications that i depend on...
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22:46<streuner>that sounds bascially like a wrong sources.list for me
22:47<streuner>(depends problems)
22:47<bigmac>lol i quit doing that after the second time i screwed up a linux lol
22:49<bigmac>i was adding backtrack repo to my sources.list... 50% worked, 40% fail and 10% break linux...
22:49<dpkg>Remember Lorena Bobbitt []? Remember what she did to her husband's woody? Well, when you install binary packages from different branches onto your woody, you get the same result. Same goes for Lenny, Squeeze, and any other Debian system, "Debian based distro", or the fire that is <rpm>, <alien>, etc.
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22:50<streuner>you cannot mix any distro and think it gives you better results...
22:50<streuner>not even in Debian itselfs
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22:53<bigmac>i think ill be fine from here on out... made enough mistakes i plan on not making them again ;-)
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22:55<netrecov>does anyone know where i can find a pdf reader for linux?
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22:58<dpkg>i guess netinst is a small CD image with which you can install Debian. If, during the installation process you have a working Internet connection, you can install more packages straight away, otherwise, you will have a base install and more packages later. See See also <check iso image>, <dialup install>, <usb install>, <installer>.
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22:59<babilen>bigmac: You probably want netinstall ^^^ images (if you have a working internet connection that is)
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23:01<bigmac>i see...
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23:03<bigmac>um, with gparted i dont see lvm?
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23:04<bigmac>maybe i thought lvm would be in the same catigory as ext2, ext3 etc...
23:06<jb0694>need some help guys... I installed the proprietary video drivers on my laptop before taking off the ones that come with debian... now debian won't come up... help anybody?
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23:06<jb0694>says "failed to start x server"
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23:07<jb0694>is there a way to get out of this mess?
23:09<jb0694>is this the right channel for this type of question?
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23:12<coredump>jb0694, you can try to rename /etc/X11/xorg.conf to something like /etc/X11/xorg.conf.backup
23:12<coredump>and try to start X
23:12<coredump>so X will try to auto-detect your hardware and DTRT
23:15<jb0694>i'm trying that now... thanks
23:15<jb0694>no good... still failed to start x server
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23:19<jb0694>how do you uninstall a proprietary driver?
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23:31<virtual>hi there
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---Logclosed Tue Oct 26 00:00:27 2010