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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-01-04

---Logopened Wed Jan 04 00:00:03 2012
---Daychanged Wed Jan 04 2012
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00:43<simonlnu>nutron: xfontsel has an old way of doing fonts, and doesn't necessarily support ttf/otf fonts
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01:38<amitz>say, i can't mount fat16 partition from xfce (don't know the relevance, or whether i'm using xfce mechanism instead of gnome despite the desktop is xfce)
01:39<amitz>can't mount from gui, that is can't click mount, it says bad fs. but mounting manually using cli is successful.
01:40<amitz>specifically, the error message is the usual : mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock. but let me add the user to plugdev group, hmmm
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01:41<amitz>already plugdev member.
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01:48<tiktalik>ugh, w is stuck
01:49<tiktalik>and I don't even want to be in here
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02:02<DBLDTX>amitz: Are you still here?
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02:03<DBLDTX>Have you looked into editing your /etc/fstab?
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02:08<ewr>hey I know in windows you cant use multiple 32bit pci vid cards if they are from diff manu
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02:08<ewr>but can I say, use an old ati pci video card along side an nvidia agp card?
02:09<ewr>on squeeze that is
02:10<jm_>ewr: should work with editing xorg.conf
02:10-!-ewr is now known as Derp|2
02:10<Derp|2>so I got my nvidia card installed atm, drivers too
02:10<Derp|2>soz i can stick this other card in and boot up with no problsm?
02:11<Derp|2>should be able to still load my gui from this "primary" card until I get the conf worked out eh
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02:12<jm_>BusId setting tells it which one to use
02:14<Derp|2>well obviously the bios tells it which
02:14<Derp|2>pci or agp
02:15<Derp|2>which one to init as primary
02:17<Derp|2>well time to halt and see if I can still bootup to my existing agp with this pci card in
02:17<Derp|2>then the rest should be east
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02:25<Derp|2>booted up no problem
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02:34<Derp|2>all the information for manually adding a second pci card to xorg is old
02:34<Derp|2>the conf looks nothing like what these guys in these other tuts are saying to do
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02:38<Derp|2><Derp|2> man
02:38<Derp|2><Derp|2> all the information for manually adding a second pci card to xorg is old
02:38<Derp|2><Derp|2> the conf looks nothing like what these guys in these other tuts are saying to do
02:38<Derp|2>sorry wrong pasta
02:38<Derp|2>02:09.0 VGA compatible controller: Trident Microsystems TGUI 9660/938x/968x (rev d3)
02:38<Derp|2>ok so whats the bus id??
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02:39<Zaba>Derp|2, it's bus:device.function, IIRC
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02:39<Derp|2>so the bus id is 02?
02:39<Derp|2>or just 2
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02:40<Derp|2>but in xorg conf
02:40<Derp|2>Screen 1 "Screen1" 2 0
02:40<jm_>should be PCI:02:09.0
02:40<Derp|2>what is the 0 for??
02:42<jm_>2 0 is position info
02:43<Derp|2>i thought 2 on the conf was the bus id
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02:48<Derp|2>allright got my original backed up
02:48<Derp|2>giving it a whack, fail whale here I come!
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02:54<danlii>Is there some way to get Spotify to work in Squeeze without having PulseAudio installed? I just get a "ALSA lib pulse.c:229:(pulse_connect) PulseAudio: Unable to connect: Connection refused" when I try to play anything.
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02:57<danlii>Ah, I removed .asoundrc and tried again. Works. Thanks anyway. :)
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02:59<Nazcafan>I see there is a cnetworkmanager package on SID but I see no developper information for it:
03:00<Nazcafan>how is that possible?
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03:01<jm_>in general, go to and fint it using the search box to see the reason
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03:06<Nazcafan>, they seem to say it's because there's no maintainer anymore
03:07<Derp|1>who does oracle think they are, requiring a user account to login just to download some libs
03:07<Derp|1>Berkely DB = Must be Garbage
03:08<Derp|1>Berkly, my bad
03:08<DBLDTX>Not Berkeley?
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03:08<Derp|1>Its called Berkly DB library and its required to compile SquidGuard
03:08<Derp|1>I think Ill pass
03:09<DBLDTX>Oracle Berkeley DB
03:09<Derp|1>I know, they cant spell
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03:10<DBLDTX>Derp|1: I don't think it's Berkly. Source?
03:10<DBLDTX>Google's having a hard time with "berkly"
03:11<Derp|1>oh your right
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03:11<Derp|1>yeah try and download that lib, "sorry u must login"
03:12<Derp|1>fail whale
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03:12<Derp|1>pretty lame I might add
03:13<gpm>hola everyone. network-manager does NOT automatically connect to networks which i've made "available to all users" and asked it to "connect automatically" to. weirdly, profiles ARE saved in /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections, with method=auto lines, but NM doesn't auto-connect to any wireless networks without being specifically asked to via the applet. i'm on amd64 testing.
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03:13<Derp|1>apt-get remove network-manager, thats what I do
03:13<Derp|1>its pretty worthless
03:13<gpm>(and hungry for troubleshooting suggestions)
03:13<Derp|1>nano /etc/network/interfaces set to static
03:13<gpm>Derp|1: word, i'm just keen to try out the gnome3 experience. verdict so far: it's ass.
03:14<Derp|1>yeah thats what I hear
03:14<gpm>i have a whole other stupid problem with gdm3
03:14<Derp|1>EnligtenMent is the shizzy tho
03:14<gpm>autologin just straight up doesn't work
03:14<gpm>i'll go back to startx
03:14<gpm>or no
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03:15<Derp|1>well im using Squeeze Atm
03:15<gpm>so disappointing
03:15<Derp|1>does that mean I have Gnome3?
03:15<Derp|1>coz I have no issues
03:15<gpm>i don't think that made it into squeeze
03:15<Derp|1>oh Sid right?
03:15<gpm>uh, i'm on wheezy and it's there
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03:16<gpm>yeah squeeze didn't get it
03:16<Derp|1>is that the current "testing" ?
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03:16<Derp|1>ah right
03:16<gpm>man i bet 3's a release goal for wheezy
03:16<Derp|1>I just upgraded from Lenny to Squeeze
03:16<gpm>that'll be a bitch
03:16<Derp|1>and for the first time It actually upgraded without a hitch
03:16*dpkg spins the wheel of knowledge and ponders... progress... Squeeze is all released now! Well done everyone involved. Ask me about <install squeeze>.
03:17<gpm>that's too bad. i was all excited to use gnome3
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03:18<Derp|1>yeah I think ill kick back and let the big dogs iron out the wrinkles before I go that route
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03:19<Derp|1>Besides, Im quite satisfied with Squeeze
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03:19<Derp|1>you know what Debian needs, A Utility that sets up Xorg in GDM
03:20<Derp|1>like have it detect all video cards and displays in the GUI
03:20<Derp|1>i just tried setting up my xorg.conf for a second video card
03:20<Derp|1>what a clusterfuck
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03:21<Derp|1>like a real Display Manager
03:21<Derp|1>not just "monitors"
03:22<gpm>i like nvidia-settings if you have those cards and've sold your soul to the proprietary drivers
03:22<Derp|1>but that noveau driver totally blows ass
03:22<Derp|1>no hardware acceleration
03:23<Derp|1>yeah well nvidia should be slapped with dicks for not making their drivers open
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03:23<Derp|1>slap! smack!!! slap slap! Slap Slap! repeatedly
03:23<gpm>that's lewd.
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03:27<Derp|1>Microsoft(R) Windows 98
03:27<Derp|1> (C)Copyright Microsoft Corp 1981-1999.
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03:30<gpm>stupid comcast having slow speeds when i want to play marvel vs. campcom 3 online
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03:32<chessir>register password
03:32<Bushmills>stupid user using provider which slows down when needed, then complains on debian support channel about provider, instead of complaining at provider, or changing.
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03:32<simonlnu>heh, nice
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03:34<gpm>sorry for flooding the channel with my inane ramblings.
03:34<gpm>my b
03:34<deansu>what you need is #debian-offtopic, its all about inane ramblings
03:35<gpm>but can you talk about debian if you want to?
03:35<simonlnu>not support, but otherwise yes
03:35<gpm>that sounds kind of nice
03:38<gpm>ok well my other support issue (debian-related) is that, in spite of adding AutomaticLogin* lines to /etc/gdm3/daemon.conf and trying multiple times via GUI tools, i can't get gdm3 to automatically log me in (again, amd64 wheezy). i see a bug on BTS but am hungry to try troubleshooting before emailing and saying "me too!"
03:39<gpm>but again the solution, i'm guessing, is "don't use that gnome3 garbage."
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03:39<jm_>well or at least gdm
03:39<gpm>network-manager is also balls so far
03:40<gpm>sorry, it's so bad it drives me to vulgarity
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03:42<Derp|1>yeah I totally removed that garbage
03:42<Derp|1>I can manually configure my interfaces
03:42<Derp|1>wlanconfig iwconfig
03:42<Derp|1>w/e thats all u need
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03:43<gpm>yeah most humans can do that. i just thought it'd be cool to have a functioning gnome3 system. apparently it's not possible right now
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03:46<simonlnu>it's still piecemeal
03:46<Derp|1>anyone know of an antivirus proxy for debian?
03:47<Derp|1> <---bingo
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03:48<DBLDTX>!tell Derp|1 about enter
03:48<jm_>dansguardian can also do that
03:49<dpkg>The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel.
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05:06<EmleyMoor>Can anyone give me an ipv6 address I could ping?
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05:14<EmleyMoor>OK, found one and tested... how do I check from "outside" whether my ipv6 address can be seen or not?
05:15<Pascal_1>does somebody could told me what is the best way to backup all the configuration of a "gnome-panel" with all the launchers ?
05:16<Pascal_1>"gnome-panel" => tableau de bord in french
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05:25<EmleyMoor>I have IPv6, a 6to4 setup, in fact, on this system now. If I want to add IPv6 addresses with the same prefix on other systems on my local network, do I just set it up similarly or is there a better way?
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05:30<OpenTokix>EmleyMoor: so: pring6
05:30<OpenTokix>ups, ping6
05:30<EmleyMoor>OpenTokix: That works
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05:34<EmleyMoor>I plan to go to native IPv6 this year... if either my existing ISP does or I change
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05:38<EmleyMoor>Am I best off allowing my other system(s) to use their own IPv4 addresses or can I make them part of the same IPv6 prefix as I used for 6to4 on this one?
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05:56<bowleggedrooster>HELP! I am so confuzed im a windows guy and never new there was other op systems besides "WINDOWS" and Apple? And then I got made At windows 7 for treating me like a dumba!? With Are you sure? and You dont have admin authority?What this is my pc I cant open this file?!!!!!!!So I got mad and found Linux?????? so many to pick from I have spent 2 months downloading a thing called an ISO and had at least 25 on my desktop?But I was told that you gu
05:56<bowleggedrooster>ys know what Im looking for? IM a recording musician in a studio and I want to stop using the old way and set up a pc What op system do I need? Cause I just setup Ubuntu 64 studio 11.10 and it is so confusing can someone give me a direction? PLEASE? the Bowleggedrooster
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06:06<bowleggedrooster>Maybe Im in the wrong place Guys?
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06:07<Heiserhorn>bowleggedrooster: have u installed ubuntu?
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06:19<erez>hey, what's the best way to setup two keyboard layers on a non-x machine?
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06:20<dutchfish>hi channel, as a roadwarior using openvpn i sometimes encounter the fact that both the local and remote subnet are the same; how to add a static route for opnvpn to 1 IP in the remote network; example both subnets are on the subnet; i want to routed to the remote subnet; Debian/squeeze/x86_64
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06:22<FuckYou>Bitchmather forever
06:22<heikkila>!ops FuckYou it's obvious
06:22<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: heikkila complains about: FuckYou it's obvious
06:22<FuckYou>is bitchmather alone
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06:22<dutchfish>i gues you better change that nick, i find it offending
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06:51<EmleyMoor>Is there an example stanza around showing an ethernet interface configured with both ipv4 and ipv6?
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07:39<dpkg>VATTENE VIA!
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07:50<zkutch>helo. anybody know chat for vim users? thanks.
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07:50<dpkg>Vi IMproved (vim) is an enhanced <vi> editor. Extremely popular clone with syntax highlighting and graphical X interface available. The vim-tiny package no longer installs vim <alternatives> as of version 2:7.2.049-1 (Debian bug #529977). See also <vim refcard>, <cream>, <colored pager>, <vim syntax highlighting>. #vim on
07:51<zkutch>nobody on waiting long time
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07:52<kilelme>zkutch: no idea about that...
07:53<zkutch>searching different chats, but no one especia ...
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08:08<EmleyMoor>I have set up one machine with 6to4 - is there a readily documented way to add another host to the same prefix?
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08:15<EmleyMoor>I am also looking for an example of how to have ipv4 and ipv6 addresses on the same interface
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08:55<Al3arib>buongiorno a tutti
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08:56<dpkg>riccardo: È possibile di scaricare un sacco di software libero puntando il tuo browser a !
08:56<Al3arib>ciao riccardo
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08:58<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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10:04<sergiubsd>hello everyone !
10:05<sergiubsd>i just installed debian lenny on a older system
10:05<EmleyMoor>Any particular reason why you installed lenny?
10:05<sergiubsd>and i was wondering how could i connect it to the net through pppoe since there are no pppoe or pppoeconf installed ?
10:06<EmleyMoor>Not familiar with pppoe...
10:07<wbd>You connect with modem?
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10:10<grove>I never tried ppoe, but there are pppoe packages in lenny, if they are not on your installaton medium you need to get them by other means
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10:11<rhiamom>first, let me apologize for using Mint. wheezy gave me no graphics whatever, and Squeeze gave me only vesa graphics. Mint has the radeon driver working with my ATI Radeon 6570, and my old eyes need the graphic clarity
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10:13<rhiamom>I need to know the name of a system terminal app I can install. I have searched in my software manager and found nothing. The Mint forum folk don't know the difference between a user terminal, a root user terminal, and a system terminal, so I throw myself on your mercy as a person who would rather be running pure Debian
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10:14<daemonkeeper>rhiamom: No need to apologize. Of course we only support Debian, but Mint users may be able to help you.
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10:15<rhiamom> The Mint forum folk don't know the difference between a user terminal, a root user terminal, and a system terminal
10:15<daemonkeeper>*sigh* What shall I suggest you? We have no clue what Mint modified when compared to a pure Debian, how shall we help you without knowing anything about it?
10:16<EmleyMoor>I'm a little lost as to what it is you want...
10:17<rhiamom>the name of a package for a system terminal? either my repository has it or not.
10:17<petemc>what is a system terminal ?
10:17<EmleyMoor>OK - a system terminal as opposed to what?
10:17<petemc>how does it different from a user terminal?
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10:17<rhiamom>like what you get with <ctrl> <alt> F1, but in a window
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10:17<rhiamom>or more like F2, actually
10:18<EmleyMoor>I know of no such app...
10:18<rhiamom>*beats head on desk repeatedly*
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10:19<daemonkeeper>Ever heard of "su"?
10:19<rhiamom>you cannot enter commands into it, but it shows what is going on behind the gui
10:19<EmleyMoor>rhiamom: You really mean something that displays the system messages in a window?
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10:19<petemc>tail -f /var/log/syslog /var/log/messages
10:20<rhiamom>su is not what i need. I need to see how and where an app is crashing while i am using that app in the gui
10:20*daemonkeeper thinks rhiamom is confusing things.
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10:20<EmleyMoor>rhiamom: Won't running the app from, say, an xterm do that?
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10:24<LANLocked>Hello all. I am wondering if there is anything for Debian like Spacewalk for RH/Clones? I realize there is rudimentary support for Debian in Spacewalk, but that is not really what I am looking for.
10:25<LANLocked>I am intrigued by apt-dater but prefer a web-based rather than ncurses solution...
10:25<daemonkeeper>You'd better explain what functionality you're looking for.
10:25<rhiamom>no, it doesn't seem to give any output in a regular terminal window
10:25<daemonkeeper>We're probably not too familiar with RH specific stuff
10:25<LANLocked>I want to be able to group servers by function and then provide package management to a group
10:26<daemonkeeper>Ah, look at Puppet
10:26<LANLocked>from a centralized point
10:26<EmleyMoor>rhiamom: It is unlikely to give any anywhere, then
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10:27<LANLocked>does Puppet handle package management in addition to configuration management? If so, that is what I am looking for!
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10:27<daemonkeeper>If you mean by that it is scheduling and distributing updates among your network(s), then yes, it does.
10:28<LANLocked>I believe that is what I am looking for... with spacewalk exists a "push" functionality for pushing updates/new packages/etc...
10:29<LANLocked>many thanks -- I will do some more reading on Puppet
10:29<daemonkeeper>Puppet can do that.
10:29<LANLocked>awesome!TYVM daemonkeeper
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10:29<daemonkeeper>(and it is distribution agnostic, i.e. it works on RH too)
10:29<LANLocked>we are trying to move *away* from RH/CentOS/Clones :D
10:30<LANLocked>but that is good to know
10:30<daemonkeeper>Just saying ;
10:30<rhiamom>Nothing in syslog
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10:31<sergiubsd>since i don't have the full dvd of debian/internet connection to install pppoeconf, how do i connect to the internet through pppoe ? there must be a way.
10:31<rhiamom>so like in the Mint forum, nobody here knows what a system terminal window is??
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10:32<daemonkeeper>rhiamom: Maybe you should reconsider what you're asking for. It is not like it would be obvious to us, what your actual problem is.
10:33<rhiamom>I have a recipe app that is crashing when the import window opens. i would like to make a bug report more detailed than "it crashes when I try to import."
10:33<daemonkeeper>sergiubsd: You can install ppp(oeconf) from the first CD/DVD only.
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10:33<EmleyMoor>rhiamom: The only thing you could mean is a window that displays system messages - and an app crashing is not likely to be notable therein.
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10:33<dpkg>Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at or join #linuxmint-help on for support. Linux Mint is variously based on <Ubuntu> with a "Linux Mint Debian Edition" (LMDE) also available, based on <testing>. See also <based on debian>, <mintppc>.
10:33<rhiamom>it's more hanging than crashing; the process is still there
10:34<jhutchins_wk>rhiamom: If you would care to install debian and test it on that we would be glad to provide advice or assistance.
10:34<daemonkeeper>rhiamom: There is no such way. Either the app has some debugging in itself or not. That's not distribution specific at all. If it has, look for debug switches (e.g. --debug) and start it from a terminal. That's about it.
10:34<rhiamom>let me repeat my first post: first, let me apologize for using Mint. wheezy gave me no graphics whatever, and Squeeze gave me only vesa graphics. Mint has the radeon driver working with my ATI Radeon 6570, and my old eyes need the graphic clarity
10:34<daemonkeeper>!based on debian
10:34<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't know what changes were made by your distribution. #debian only supports Debian; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
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10:35<jhutchins_wk>rhiamom: THat has no bearing on the fact that this is Debian support, not Mint support.
10:35<jhutchins_wk>rhiamom: We would even be happy to help you get the radeon drivers working in squeeze.
10:36<rhiamom>can you get them to work for my radeon 6570?
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10:37<rhiamom>Because the fglrx driver is appalling
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10:40<XeonBloomfield>rhiamom: Squeeze's fglrx has support up to 5xxx series
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10:41<rhiamom>?? Squeeze HAD NO FGLRX SUPPORT
10:42<rhiamom>sorry, capslock accidental
10:42<rhiamom>it defaulted to the vesa driver; I installed fglrx from ATI
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10:43<rhiamom>it works, but the graphics are terrible. To move a window it jerks and redraws repeatedly
10:43<rhiamom>unusable, in a nutshell
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10:44<rhiamom>and Wheezy would not even display anything except a plain white screen
10:45<XeonBloomfield>rhiamom: As I say... Squeeze's fglrx has support up to 5xxx series, no 6xxx support
10:45<XeonBloomfield>rhiamom: Wheezy has drivers for 6xxx series
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10:48<sney>rhiamom: you're right that squeeze has no fglrx out of the box. since it's non-free you do need to install it. No need to apologize to us for using mint, do what is best for you, but naturally we can't support mint in here :)
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10:50<rhiamom>wheezy gave no a white screen of death
10:51<rhiamom>er, gave me
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10:51<fVckingmania>Is there a channel for LMDE??
10:51<rhiamom>I could back up files and try again, I suppose
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10:52<towo-nb>rhiamom, for the white screen in wheezy, start with radeon.modeset=0 as kernel parameter
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10:53<irocksu>i want to build a deb package and followed this guide:
10:53<rhiamom>how do I set that?
10:54<towo-nb>rhiamom, at grub
10:54<irocksu>now i should debuild, but i get the following error: package-contains-info-dir-file because a file called dir.gz gets build automatically
10:54<irocksu>how can i prevent that from happening?
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10:55<towo-nb>rhiamom, and btw, installing fglrx is not enougth, without a config, x does not know about fglrx
10:55<rhiamom>grub will let me add a parameter?
10:55<towo-nb>hit e at the choosen entry
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11:54<mbelow>hi, i want to send a pop-up from a shellscript (run as backuppc, non-login user) to the user currently logged in. zenity just returns an error...
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12:13<project2501a>hey guys, i just noticed that the latest testing has nouveau included. you might want to do some additional testing with it: i got a quadro 4400 from nvida and nouveau hangs when it is trying to change the mode of the framebuffer
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12:14<fgh>i have a machine without cd/floppy nor can i boot it from usb. its currently running debian testing, where do i read about installing debian stable?
12:14<project2501a>fgh, hm?
12:14<project2501a>what do you mean?
12:14<project2501a>you want to downgrade?
12:14<fgh>sort of, i want a new clean install
12:15<fgh>and ill go for stable
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12:15<project2501a>read up on deboostrap
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12:16<fgh>oki, thank you project2501a :)
12:17<fgh>maybe ill connect a cd anyway then..
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12:17<project2501a>fgh, just boot from usb
12:17<project2501a>or netboot
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12:33<chealer>project2501a: nouveau is still in development
12:33<project2501a>i can tell ;D
12:33<project2501a>should i submit a bug?
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12:41<chealer>project2501a: it's up to you to see whether it's worth it. you should check there is no bug report already anyway.
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12:44<amoe>How would I go about getting a GUI to prompt for a passphrase and auto-mount when I plug in a LUKS encrypted USB hard disk?
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12:53<yznou>amoe, pinentry-[qt/qt4/gtk/x11] can be used do prompt for a passphrase
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12:55<amoe>yznou: funky, thanks
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12:58<niag>why wine still 1.0.x when wine stable is 1.2?
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13:00<towo-nb>niag, you don't understand how debian is
13:00<niag>debian stable and testing has wine 1.0, not 1.2
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13:08<cathyy>I'm back. The radeon.modeset=0 parameter didn't work. Now I get a screen full of narrowly spaced vertical stripes.
13:09<cathyy>I am, obviously, on a diffeent computer
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13:31<cathyy>Can anybody help me get the radeon driver to work in Wheezy with my 6570/
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13:31<towo-nb>radeon does not support this card in wheezy
13:32<towo-nb>and for basic suppurt firmware-linux-nonfree is needed
13:32<cathyy>and after somebody told me they would help me get it working!
13:32<towo-nb>and for wheezy, this is the wrong channel
13:32<cathyy>I was told it was supported in wheezy, but not Squeeze
13:33<cathyy>to what channel should I relocate, then?
13:33<towo-nb>no, you where told fglrx from wheezy does support this card
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13:33<cathyy>fglrx sucks
13:34<cathyy>and no, they said they would help me get the radeon driver to work. I can get the fglrx to work myself; I have before
13:34<towo-nb>then install firmware-linux-nonfree
13:34<towo-nb>and support for unstable/d
13:35<cathyy>um, how? I have no terminals, no x
13:35<towo-nb>and support for unstable/sid is #debian-next
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13:36<cathyy>thank you.
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13:58<yksingh>any body know how to install firefox in debian-amd64
13:59<towo-nb>apt-get install iceweasel
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14:03<yznou>yksingh: for an up-to-date firefox you will need to download the tar.gz from mozilla.ogr
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14:04<dpkg>Backports of the Iceweasel web browser and Icedove mail client are not available from <debian backports>. See for newer Iceweasel and Icedove for squeeze, wheezy or sid. Work continues to get the packages into the official archive without breaking too many other xul-using applications. Also ask me about <transition>, <squeeze-backports>, <testing>.
14:04<retrospectacus>yksingh: ^
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14:08<yksingh>yznou , ihave downloaded , i tried to installed, but its give some .so file error.
14:09<devil>yksingh: then stick to the debian way
14:09<devil>yksingh: apt-get install iceweasel
14:10<towo-nb>yksingh, then you have downloadet the 32bit version
14:10<towo-nb>this will not work
14:10<yksingh>i am getting this type of error>./firefox-bin: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
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14:12<yksingh>i am getting this type of error>./firefox-bin: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory----> any one know solution of this?
14:12<towo-nb>yksingh, use the debian way
14:12<retrospectacus>yksingh: it means you did it wrong. Carefully follow the directions dpkg said about mdn
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14:13<retrospectacus>err *the directions on mdn
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14:14<yksingh>one mozilla configuration allready available in debian package and icwseal browser.
14:14<yksingh>towo-nb, how to use debian away
14:14<towo-nb>it was told
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14:24<EmleyMoor>I have 6to4 working on this machine - can I add my other machines to the same IPv6 network? If so, what's the best way to do it?
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14:33<k-man_>whats the fix for this bug?
14:33<dondelelcaro>!buginfo 641013
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14:36<towo-nb>k-man_, the fix is to configure sudo correct
14:36<k-man_>I suspect it is because I have a non default sudoers
14:36<k-man_>how do I reinstall the package's sudoers file?
14:37<dondelelcaro>!dbugs 641013
14:37<dpkg>#641013:N[sudo] upgrade-reports: ldconfig not found in path - start-stop-deamon not fount in path - dpkg error code (2) +++ (wontfix); Fri, 09 Sep 2011 12:51:01 UTC []
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14:38<k-man_>its because a path varible is missing from the sudoer file
14:38<dondelelcaro>k-man_: you actually just need to add #includedir /etc/sudoers.d or set Defaults secure_path="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin"
14:38<dondelelcaro>k-man_: it's pretty simple
14:39<k-man_>yes, but if I revert to the default sudoers file, it will be updated automatically in future
14:39<k-man_>which is a better fix I think
14:39<dondelelcaro>k-man_: if you're just using the default sudoers file, there's not much point in having sudo installed
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14:40<k-man_>course there is
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14:40<k-man_>just add your user to the sudo group and you get sudo privs.
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14:40<k-man_>I must have set up this sudoers file before I knew that
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14:46<dondelelcaro>k-man_: by default the sudo group doesn't do anything; it's only recently that some installs have added %sudo lines to sudoers
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14:48<k-man_>dondelelcaro, ok, well it seems to work for me
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14:48<dondelelcaro>k-man_: that's probably because you have something which allows it in /etc/sudoers or /etc/sudoers.d
14:49<k-man_>and the %sudo line is in a file sudoers.dpkg-dist I have on my system, dated 13/11/2011
14:50<k-man_>I'm assuming that came from a package
14:50<dondelelcaro>it may now be the default everywhere, I've not been keeping track
14:51<k-man_>I think its beeed the default for a while now - maybe a couple of years at least
14:51<k-man_>but i've not been making notes or anything so I'm not sure
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14:53<dondelelcaro>possibly since squeeze
14:53<dondelelcaro>but anyway, if it's now the default, the sudo group will work. otherwise you can just drop a file in /etc/sudoers.d/
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14:54<k-man_>ok, thanks
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14:57<phoenix>je suis sous crunchbang version debian...
14:57<dpkg>CrunchBang Linux is a Live CD distribution originally based on <Ubuntu>, now based on Debian as of version 10, featuring the <Openbox> window manager. It is not supported in #debian. #crunchbang on See <based on debian>.
14:57<phoenix>est-ce qu'il y a quelqu'un,
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14:59<phoenix>je ne suis pas sur de ça...
14:59<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr.
14:59<phoenix>il me semblait que la version startler serait en debian
14:59<retrospectacus>nous ne pouvons pas vous aider
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15:19<nocturnal>I have both 2.6 and 2.7 versions of the python-minimal, python and libpython packages installed. /usr/bin/python is 2.7.2+ but python-pycurl depends on < 2.7 and won't install because of this. relinking /usr/bin/python to python2.6 didn't help.
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15:27<nocturnal>doesn't matter, I'll just use urllib2 but it would still be interesting to know how to deal with multiple scripting language versions. I guess both are dependencies to something.
15:27<nocturnal>so I can't just remove them without checking that.
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16:00<rchaic>Hi :-) Since I have the gnome-control-center 3.2.2 installed there is no way to configure the appearance any more (the stuff that used to be in gnome-appearance-properties) Is this a known phenomenon? I can' find any related bugs in but thought maybe someone has an idea...
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16:04<babilen>rchaic: AFAIK that is expected -- I set themes with for GTK3. You might also be happy to hear that we have a channel specific for testing/unstable (i.e. #debian-next)
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16:09<valdyn>rchaic: try gnome-tweak-tool
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16:12<holsta>Hey. I have an updated Debian 6 that I am trying to get SNI working on. Various bugs post seem to indicate SNI should be fully supported.
16:13<holsta>Anyone here have SNI working on Debian 6?
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16:23<rchaic>thanks for the help :-)
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16:27<mobius420>greetings #debian
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16:28<mobius420>there seems to be a webserver daemon running on my ubuntu machine, preventing me from starting a development server I wish to run. Is anyone aware of the process name for the webserver which comes bundled with ubuntu and how to stop it?
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16:29<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
16:29<mobius420>good lord
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16:29<boba>Gee, you think?
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16:41<EmleyMoor>I'm hoping to be able to bring the rest of my machines up to date with ipv6 - 6to4 seems to be working nicely on this machine but I am not sure how to bring the rest of my machines on
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16:44<marcio>long time didn't use irc
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16:44<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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16:45<Guest22679>what happened?
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17:06<tompickles>I'm trying to install Bedian 6.0.3 using the amd64-netinst iso (on a usb stick). When the installer scans my network devices, it says I need b43{,-open}/ucode15.fw. Where do I find these files? The wiki says to use a tool to install, but I don't have internet when I'm booted into the installer!
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17:12<anbe>!installer firmware
17:12<dpkg>Debian-Installer since Lenny is able to load additional <firmware>, by including it within installation media or supplying on removable media (e.g. USB stick, floppy). See and . To include firmware within Debian <netboot> images, see . See also <firmware images>.
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17:15<EmleyMoor>Is there a way to make google-earth work with nouveau?
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17:17<donthatetheplayer>so say two computers have gigabit ethernet cards, and the max transfer rate I get is 40MB/s, why am i not getting full gigabit speeds?
17:17<valdyn>donthatetheplayer: cable or switch or your cards are not great
17:18<valdyn>donthatetheplayer: how the hell would we know something specific?
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17:19<donthatetheplayer>i took a cat 5e cable and cut it in half
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17:19<donthatetheplayer>and spliced together a ghetto crossover cable- could that be it?
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17:22<tompickles>thanks anbe
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17:22<valdyn>donthatetheplayer: are you aware that your cards might not need crossover cabling?
17:23<retrospectacus>yeah isn't auto-crossover part of the gigabit spec
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17:25<babilen>And don't you want CAT6?
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17:31<leigh>is this the help channel?
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17:33<jiremek>it's a help chael if an user can anwser to your question !!
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17:33<leigh>cool....i have just installed ubuntu 11.10 and cannot connect to wireless ( device not ready, firmware missing) what to do?
17:33<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian>.
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17:34<jiremek>maybe it's a driver problem, but use the #debian chanel at
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17:35<jiremek>Anybody can help me about porblem with postfix sasl and pam ?
17:35<tompickles>sorry all... too much time in vim
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17:36<jiremek>nothing to help me
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17:38<retrospectacus>jiremek: you haven't asked anything yet
17:39<jiremek>I know, so I try now
17:39<SynrG>jiremek: and after misdirecting an obvious ubuntu user to #debain @ freenode, you're not off to a good start :/
17:39<jiremek>I have used a package of postfix with mysql
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17:40<jiremek>Users was authenticated by a MySQL database with saslauth and pam
17:40<jiremek>All worked
17:40<networklogin>siri on the iphone 4
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17:41<jiremek>but now I compile and install postfix from source with sasl tls and mysql, but now, without any changes saslauth don't be ok
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17:42<jiremek>If I run manualy saslauth with debug the authentification don't appear but If I try testsaslauth all worked !
17:42<networklogin>i making a siri server want help devlop
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17:42<jiremek>(sorry for my English, but I'm french)
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17:42<retrospectacus>networklogin: do you have a debian question?
17:43<jiremek>So, Who can Help me to resolv my problem with saslauth and postfix ?
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17:45<jiremek>oups, bad command
17:45<jiremek>So, Who can Help me to resolv my problem with saslauth and postfix ?
17:45<EmleyMoor>I have a remote machine that mounts one of my filesystems using autofs... I stopped nfs-kernel-server, changed the disk and restarted nfs-kernel-server. The remote machine is not happy - it often recovers from this on its own, but I am wondering how I can speed it along
17:46<SynrG>jiremek: so to sum up, you were using debian packages and they worked fine. then you replaced the debian postfix with your own, built from source, and now it's broken?
17:47<networklogin>Je fais un proxy Siri pour iPhone 4, mais ont besoin d'aide pour prendre le proxy j'ai besoin d'une IPs différentes touches de l'iPhone 4S
17:47<networklogin>to jiremek
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17:48<babilen>networklogin: Do you have a Debian related question?
17:48<jiremek>Yes, it's my problem
17:48<jiremek>I changed of course the init.d scrip
17:48<SynrG>jiremek: why did you switch from the debian package to one built from source?
17:48<babilen>jiremek: I would say that the solution is easy: Use Debian's packages
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17:49<jiremek>'cause the source is most recent and support custom bounce messages
17:49<SynrG>the standard solution here is to use a backport
17:49<dpkg> (formerly is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable distribution, prepared by Debian developers. Read to enable and use. See also <bdo kernel> <bdo mirrors> <bdo contents> <bdo list> <bdo bugs> <bdo pinning> <bdo key> <backports-sloppy> <bdo xorg>.
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17:51<jiremek>After search about this solution, I founded also the backport, but When I've a problem I prefer to try to understand what's the error or what I've missed !
17:51<EmleyMoor>I need to get this disk accessible remotely again within the next half hour
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17:51<SynrG>jiremek: while i understand your desire to understand ... we provide support for debian. what you've done is an interesting problem, just not one we're prepared to help with
17:52<SynrG>if you use the debian package at, that is a supported solution
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17:53<jiremek>Thinks for your answers, So I'm going to use backport and stop the brainstorming :)à
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17:53<SynrG>good luck
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17:53<jiremek>I now it can be difficult to found one man with a similar probleme
17:53<discord>i can't capture sound from my soundcard, the capture however isn't muted
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17:53<jiremek>Synrg: Thanks
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17:54<jiremek>with backport It's so easy but there is nothing to understand..
17:55<tompickles>hi again. in trying to install squeeze, the installer says i need the b43 drivers. I looked at the links i was just provided with, and have found in the non-free packages b43-fwcutter and firmware-b43-installer. how do i go about using them in the installer as with them both on the usb stick with the netbook iso it still couldn't find them?
17:56<EmleyMoor>discord: Which sound card and which kernel?
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17:57<cathyy_>gnugr, I installed Squeeze and the fglrx driver.
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17:59<SynrG>jiremek: well, there are many ways to make life harder for yourself with debian. we do try, here, though, to make things easier :)
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18:00<jiremek>It's also bad to ignore my errors, 'cause I do make the same after
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18:01<babilen>tompickles: I would recommend to use DVD1/CD1 do install the system and take it from there. Acquiring that firmware is a bit of a hassle (blame broadcom)
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18:01<gsimmons>tompickles: The firmware used by the b43 driver is not supplied in those (contrib) packages, they are used to extract firmware from a proprietary driver distributed on the Internet. If available, it is generally easier to use a wired connection during Debian installation.
18:02<tompickles>babilen: I always have an issue with wireless! Is that driver on CD1? Would I be able to get a generic debian system just from CD1? I currently have the netboot cd on the usb stick, but CD1 would fit instead!
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18:03<babilen>tompickles: Please see what gsimmons just said -- Debian does not distribute the firmware at all, but only an installer that downloads a file somewhere on the internet and extracts the firmware from it.
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18:04<babilen>tompickles: My recommendation to use DVD1 is meant to enable you to install Debian *without* a working network connection. It would, however, be preferred if you could just connect via ethernet.
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18:06<tompickles>babilen: ah right, i see. I thought you meant it had the driver *on* the CD. That's ok, I will use ethernet. If I'm right in thinking I can then use apt to download the driver using the firmware-b43-installer package?
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18:07<babilen>tompickles: Yes, the firmware is downloaded from the internet, extracted and installed when you install firmware-b43-installer -- You need to be online for that to work though.
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18:08<tompickles>babilen: yeh, I'd leave the ethernet in while I did that after the install. Will have to go digging for an ethernet I suppose then..!
18:09<tompickles>babilen gsimmons: thanks for your advice and help
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18:10<SynrG>jiremek: of course, if you want to investigate on your own, don't let us stop you from doing that. you might want to examine the debian postfix package in that case and understand how it differs from an install from source. that may take quite a while to figure out though, as a large, important piece of software like postfix may need a lot of work to integrate properly into debian.
18:11<SynrG>jiremek: all rather outside of the scope of support provided here, though. again, good luck
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18:11<jiremek>I'm not lucky, so I stop to investigate
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19:20<joar>where are crashlogs stored in debian?
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19:24<retrospectacus>joar: it depends what crashed. Maybe /var/log/syslog or somewhere else in /var/log
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19:32<joar>launching totem with a .pls as an argument crashes my desktop, it seems.
19:32<joar>How would I go about to debug this?
19:33<joar>I've tried redirecting any output of totem to a file but it did not catch anything.
19:34<joar>Jan 5 01:27:38 lina gnome-session[6341]: Gdk-WARNING: gnome-session: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.#012
19:34<joar>that might be it.
19:35<jordanm>joar: /var/log/Xorg.0.log might show a segfault
19:35<jordanm>joar: or running X from a tty might cause the segfault to ouput to the terminal
19:35<donthatetheplayer>debian peoples- when i do an scp, is there anyway to see the status of the whole transfer, not just file by file?
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19:36<retrospectacus>joar: check $HOME/.xsession-errors
19:36<amitz>a work around is to use rsync --progress
19:36<jordanm>rysnc --progress only shows individual file progress as well
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19:38<joar>jordanm: retrospectacus: (gnome-settings-daemon:7939): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed
19:38<jordanm>joar: that doesn't look like it came from Xorg.0.log, and it doesn't look like a segfault either
19:38<joar>that's the only resent "critical" I have in my .xsession-errors
19:38<jordanm>if X is crashing, its most likely a segfault
19:39<joar>It looks like gnome-session is crashing.
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19:40<joar>jordanm: a search for "seg" in Xorg.0.log yields nothing
19:40<jordanm>joar: guessing by your first error, I would say gnome-session crashed because the xserver died
19:40<jordanm>joar: pastebin it
19:40<jordanm>joar: if X restarted, it will be in a rotated log
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19:42<joar>jordanm: there's an Xorg.0.log.old in /var/log too
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19:44<joar>jordanm: and Xorg.0.log.old, which contains a Segmentation fault entry;
19:45<jordanm>joar: what version of debian/xserver?
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19:46<joar>jordanm: tracking wheezy
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19:48<joar>jordanm: xserver-xorg package version 1:7.6+10
19:50<jordanm>joar: file a bug report, but I would suspect the fglrx module
19:50<joar>jordanm: which is unsupported :/
19:51<joar>anyway, thank you jordanm for the awesome support :)
19:51<joar>I'll file a bug report on it either way.
19:51<jordanm>joar: if you file a bug against xserver, they will atleast know whether or not file it against fglrx
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20:14<joar>jordanm: they categorized it under Driver/fglrx.
20:15<joar>thanks again for your help.
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20:16<jordanm>!tell joar about radeon
20:17<jordanm>joar: unfortunately, they will not be able to actually resolve that. see the wiki for using the open source drivers, which actually work pretty well
20:17<jordanm>I am not sure if they push it upstream to ATI or not
20:18<Marezz>open source drivers are not enough if u want to play some games :(
20:18<simonlnu>that's b.s.
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20:19<Marezz>what is?
20:19<kszksz>what to do if configure is ok and make fails?
20:20<simonlnu>lex_: stop that
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20:20<streuner__>kszksz: what kind of command?
20:20<streuner__>kszksz: (Please tell us more details)
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20:20<lex_>ok sorry
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20:20<jordanm>Marezz: I play openarena and wesnoth on nouveau. radeon is actually better than the open source nvidia drivers
20:21<Marezz>jordanm, Tried playing Heroes of Newerth
20:21<Marezz>I didnt manage to log in
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20:21<Marezz>its like 1 frame every 20 seconds
20:22<Marezz>native game
20:22<Marezz>one of the better ones
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20:22<jordanm>oh, yeah, the graphics do look a bit better than openarena
20:22<kszksz>streuner__ compiling libtorrent 0.12.6, ./configure is ok, after 'make' i see smth like ***all recursive** error 1 , 2, somewhere before it 'null was not declared bla bla' (black magic)
20:22<jordanm>nouveau 3d accelleration is still fairly new, but radeon has had it for a lot longer
20:23<jordanm>,versions libtorrent
20:23<judd>No package named 'libtorrent' was found in i386.
20:23<Marezz>and what FPS you get in openarena and wesnoth?
20:23<jordanm>,versions libtorrent11
20:23<judd>Package: libtorrent11 on i386 -- squeeze: 0.12.6-2
20:24<jordanm>kszksz: what version of debian are you running?
20:24-!-anbe [] has joined #debian
20:24<kszksz>im not running debian? :D ubuntu 11 mini-smth
20:24<donthatetheplayer>i am only getting 40MB/s transfer speed on gigabit etherenet, what could be the cause?
20:24<jordanm>Marezz: high enough to not notice framrate lag. GTX 260
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20:24<djura-san>ola \o
20:25<kszksz>jordanm im not running debian? :D ubuntu 11 mini-smth
20:25<Marezz>ahh, nice card
20:25<streuner__>donthatetheplayer: didnt you ask that question in FN earlier?
20:25<Marezz>oh no u gonna get flamed now XD
20:25<donthatetheplayer>oh shit
20:25<streuner__>we told you
20:25<donthatetheplayer>please dont flame me
20:25<jordanm>!tell kszksz about ubuntu
20:25<Marezz>not u, the ubuntu user xD
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20:26<djura-san>one question: i just installed whezzy from netinstall and then i started using sid repos. My problem is that i forgot how to enable my sound card. It is working but i got no sound and i tried to force restard in alsa demon but with no luck.
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20:26<Marezz>djura-san, ehh alsaxonf?
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20:27<streuner__>doenst exist
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20:27<streuner__>alsaconf is gone
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20:28<Marezz>there are no official Sid ISO's?
20:28<streuner__>hopefully not
20:28<Marezz>why u say that? lol
20:29<joar>sid is outdated, right?
20:29<djura-san>Marezz: there is no alsaconf
20:29<streuner__>well, if you have to ask, you shouldnt run sid at all
20:29<simonlnu>Marezz: if you have to ask, don't.
20:29<Marezz>I'll be the judge of that thanks
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20:30<djura-san>there was some trick to reset soundcard but i forgot it's command. i hope it was not related to alsaconf :\
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20:31<Marezz>djura-san, have you tried this? sudo /etc/init.d/alsa-utils stop, sudo alsa force-reload, sudo /etc/init.d/alsa-utils start
20:32<jordanm>!tell djura-san about alsa-checklist
20:33<djura-san>Marezz: lemme check and then i will check what dpkg is saying (thank you jordanm :) )
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20:34<djura-san>Marezz: nope, it is not working
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20:35<Marezz>I dont know then :(
20:35<djura-san>oh yes, i believe that this trick with adding myself to "audio" group, will do the trick. Thank you jordanm
20:37<simonlnu>Marezz: point being, sid isos get obsolete very quickly, and thus become a waste of space. you can use jigdo to make one, but be aware it'll soon be obsolete.
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20:42<k-man_>any idea how to get libmozjs2d in wheezy?
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20:44<djura-san>jordanm: nope, it is not working :\
20:44<djura-san>i was already a part of audio group so there was no need to log off
20:46<streuner__>judd, versions lubmozjs2d
20:47<judd>No package named 'lubmozjs2d' was found in i386.
20:47<streuner__>judd, versions libmozjs2d
20:47<judd>Package: libmozjs2d on i386 -- squeeze:; lenny-backports:; squeeze-security:
20:47<streuner__>k-man_: why do you need that package at all?
20:50<streuner__>Description: The Mozilla SpiderMonkey JavaScript library
20:50<streuner__> This library provides the embeddable JavaScript/ECMAScript engine from
20:50<streuner__> the Mozilla project (used among others by the Mozilla, Epiphany, Firefox
20:50<streuner__> browsers as well as by the iPlanet WebServer).
20:50-!-streuner__ was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use or /msg dpkg paste]
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20:51<donthatetheplayer>how long does it take to make a 2.3Terrabyte tarball and gzip it?
20:51<streuner__>depends on your system?
20:53<donthatetheplayer>8 cpu machine
20:53<Bushmills>how long is a string?
20:53<Bushmills>1 terrabyte = 1024 lunabytes?
20:55<streuner__>gzip is usually very fast, it shouldnt take that much time, IMO.
20:55<streuner__>with a 8 cpu machine
20:55<Nemoder>i would think it depends more on drive speed and filesystem
20:55<streuner__>but, i guess, its a fast drive HD too
20:56<streuner__>if somebody using a 8 CPU machine...
20:57*streuner__ using a quad CPU with IDE HD...
20:57<donthatetheplayer>oh dude- no
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20:58<Bushmills>you can use time to let the system tell you how long it takes
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21:09<donthatetheplayer>how do i make tar use multiple cpu's?
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21:09<streuner__>if you using amd64?
21:10-!-mode/#debian [+l 468] by debhelper
21:10<streuner__>well, in my experiences, it uses all cores, no experiences with tar
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21:12<streuner__>it usually uses one of the cores 100 percent and changes to the next core
21:13<streuner__>within a few seconds (change)
21:14<babilen>donthatetheplayer: Take a look at pbzip2 and xz
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21:14<streuner__>donthatetheplayer: but, as we told you before, CPU shoudnt be the problem
21:15<streuner__>rather FS/HD drive performance
21:15<babilen>Well, you can't be entirely sure but it is quite likely to be IO and not CPU bound.
21:16<streuner__>with a 8 CPU machine and gzip? i doubt that
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21:22<jordanm>gzip isn't multithreaded
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21:22<streuner__>hm, but one CPU should be enough
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21:24<streuner__>more than enough, gzip is very fast
21:25<streuner__>bottleneck is in my case, always the old IDE HD
21:26<donthatetheplayer>i started it like 10 minutes ago-
21:26<donthatetheplayer>it's still going
21:27<streuner__>2.3 TB isnt a little file :-)
21:27<koollman>I wouldn't call gzip 'very fast'
21:28<streuner__>koollman: vs. bzip or something else? :-P
21:28<babilen>donthatetheplayer: What are you compressing anyway and whatfor?
21:28<koollman>faster than bzip2 or 7z/lzma. slower than lzo or snappy or some others
21:28<streuner__><donthatetheplayer> how long does it take to make a 2.3Terrabyte tarball and gzip it?
21:29<koollman>and most importantly, slower than disk I/O, most of the time :)
21:29<donthatetheplayer>streuner__: that's what i'm asking you guys
21:29<babilen>donthatetheplayer: What are you compressing and whatfor?
21:30<streuner__>must be pr0n :-P
21:31<koollman>donthatetheplayer: dozens of hours. what are you compressing that is so big ?
21:32<donthatetheplayer>*big corporation's* research data
21:32<streuner__>well, a config folder is this not
21:32<koollman>you realize that even just reading that data, assuming a quite good speed of 100MB/s, would take almost 7 hours ? :)
21:32<robbiethe1st>I do know that over a gigabit lan, using gzip on the data first resulted in 10mb/sec transfer speeds.
21:32<babilen>donthatetheplayer: What kind of data? Is it actually compressible? Are there many little files or a single big one? ... *sigh* /me lost interest
21:32<koollman>if you're compressing it and writing on the same disks ... much much longer
21:32<robbiethe1st>Without gzip, I got near 100MB/sec
21:33<koollman> (or lzop if you want something packaged)
21:33<streuner__>well, 7 hours is ok
21:33<streuner__>for 2.3 TB, i think
21:34<streuner__>donthatetheplayer: you go to sleep and you wake up and its done
21:34<koollman>7 hours is just reading it. if you do anything with it it might be slower :)
21:34<babilen>donthatetheplayer: What's important for you? Do you just want to combine a couple of files in a single archive? Do you want them to pack as fast as possible or as small as possible? yadda yadda
21:35<koollman>in particular, I often see gzip speeds of around 10MB/s. which translate to more than 60 hours of compression :)
21:35<donthatetheplayer>i need to back up the data
21:35<jordanm>100MB/s probably assumes the reads are squential
21:35<koollman>good thing is ... it's cold currently. will keep the cpu hot
21:35<jordanm>or you have a kick-ass RAID10 over fiber channel
21:35<Nemoder>How do I fix my terminal to show all the proper characters when running things like aptitude instead of this
21:35<babilen>What's the hardware? How often does this data need to be archived? How will the archive be used?
21:35<koollman>yes, sequential. if you also have other i/o on that disk ... forget the 100MB/s. more like 5MB/s ;)
21:35<koollman>(and 120h)
21:36<streuner__>koollman: please tell us about your nightmares :-P
21:36<jordanm>Nemoder: try: export LC_ALL="en_US.UTF-8"
21:36<babilen>donthatetheplayer: How random/redundant is the data?
21:36<koollman>not my nightmares. I use it to scare others. customers, mostly.
21:36<donthatetheplayer>mostly mysql databases
21:36<koollman>I likes that kind of number. always fun to explain to customer that '2TB data' and 'instant recovery' and 'cheap' won't really be possible ;)
21:36<Nemoder>jordanm: that didn't change it at all
21:37<donthatetheplayer>of pR0n... no just kidding... of financial data
21:37<jordanm>donthatetheplayer: I hope you are making dumps of those databases if you plan to ever restore them
21:37<koollman>donthatetheplayer: is that the size of the db files, or the size of a dump ?
21:37<jordanm>Nemoder: my only guess
21:37<jordanm>!tell Nemoder about locales
21:37<donthatetheplayer>oh no- we copy the db files
21:37<babilen>You copy the actualy db files? Not the data dumps?
21:38<koollman>jordanm: for that size, saving db files rather than dump would make more sense, actually. you don't want to load a 2TB dump :)
21:38<jordanm>sometimes that will work with MyISAM engine tables, but its completely worthless if any are using INNODB engine
21:38<donthatetheplayer>it's retarded, i know i know
21:38<koollman>but the dump *would* be smaller, probably. no index.
21:38<jordanm>dump would be smaller, and it would compress well
21:38<jordanm>but requires server resources to create. you basically still need to read all the data from the db files
21:38<babilen>donthatetheplayer: So this is actually about creating database backups and *not* about compressing data?
21:39<koollman>if the dump compress well, the data files should compress well too :)
21:39<streuner__>it would become better and better... :-)
21:39<jordanm>donthatetheplayer: any tables using INNODB?
21:39<donthatetheplayer>no- just myisam
21:39<babilen>Which database is in use?
21:39<babilen>ah, right
21:39<koollman>donthatetheplayer: and did you stop or at least suspend the server while saving ?
21:40<donthatetheplayer>i dont know- it's not my data... my boss just wants me to back all the files up
21:40<koollman>you know what's more painful than saving 2.3TB of database files ?
21:40<koollman>restoring a corrupted db ;)
21:40<donthatetheplayer>koollman- i know i know, but
21:41<jordanm>donthatetheplayer: you need to make sure your boss know that it if a restore *is* actually successful, it will come with corrupted data
21:41<donthatetheplayer>i like having my job... i'm sorta getting used to having the health insurance
21:41<koollman>donthatetheplayer: sure. will you keep it if the data is lost ?
21:41<donthatetheplayer>this is not about databases- i need to backup 2.3TB off a SAN
21:42<koollman>do so. it will be long. restore will be long too. And remember. I will be somewhere, laughing :)
21:42<donthatetheplayer>i hate my life
21:43<kop>Gotta wonder if the data is static.
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21:44<streuner__>donthatetheplayer: tell us one guy here who hasnt any problems :-)
21:44<koollman>streuner__: dpkg :)
21:44<donthatetheplayer>yah- dpkg
21:44<jordanm>kop: RDBMS files certainly are not static
21:44<dpkg>All days in #debian will remain Sunday until further notice. Unfortunately, outside #debian the world keeps turning, so you still have to get up and go to work. Welcome to PermaTardsday!
21:46<jordanm>backup systems that are not concerned with the ability to restore the data... are awesome
21:46<kop>jordanm: He claims it's not a db. Do we know what he's really trying to do?
21:46<jordanm>the classic BOFH - backups go a lot quicker when you write them to /dev/null
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21:47<koollman>I was about to tell the /dev/null joke :)
21:47<jordanm>kop: he said they were mysql db files. myisam engine
21:47<koollman>using /dev/null as a tape driver is a great way to speed up the backup cron job
21:48<donthatetheplayer> short TRI
21:48<babilen>donthatetheplayer: Why not create actual database dumps on a slave somewhere and copy/compress them somewhere? What backup solution are you using right now? (backuppc, amanda, bacula, ...)
21:48<jordanm>sounds like the current backup system is none and the future one is "tar" :)
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21:48<kop>jordanm: Well then we all know the only way to get a decent backup is to use the db dump tools. There's something "special" for myisam. I forget the details. (Mysql is just, klunky.)
21:49<jordanm>kop: not really. there's something "special" about INNODB
21:49<babilen>jordanm: hehe :)
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21:50<kop>jordanm: Aww. You have to count as special a foss db that's got no free documentation.
21:50<jordanm>which by default stores the data for all your innodb tables in a single file, regardless of which db they are in. that is configurable, but you still won't have much luck doing a file-level restore
21:50<kop>jordanm: Well, if the data structure's been around since what, the 1960s, at least the problems are well understood. :-)
21:51<jordanm>and the best part of innodb, is if you delete a row it stays on disk!
21:51<kop>jordanm: That's not entirely fair. Space recovery in a db is aways a tradeoff.
21:52<kop>#debian-offtopic. I plead guilty.
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21:55<k-man_>streuner__, this program I use called shepherd (for grabbing TV guide data in australia) needs it
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21:58<streuner__>hm, <ssb> wouldnt work, how do you get a certain package out of stable into testing
21:59<streuner__>other than just use the source
22:00<streuner__>libmozjs2d in question
22:00<jordanm>,versions libmozjs2d
22:00<judd>Package: libmozjs2d on i386 -- squeeze:; lenny-backports:; squeeze-security:
22:00<jordanm>streuner__: why wouldn't ssb work?
22:01<streuner__>because it isnt in sid?
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22:01<jordanm>streuner__: just grab the source package from squeeze-security. everything else should be the same
22:01<streuner__>k-man_: ^^^
22:02<streuner__>k-man_: /msg dpkg ssb
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22:04<streuner_>k-man_: besides, you are always to make your own deb, with debian/rules (squeeze-security)
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22:08<k-man_>streuner_, ok, thanks for the pointers
22:08<k-man_>what does ssb stand for out of interest?
22:08<streuner_>simple sid backport
22:08<k-man_>thanks :)
22:09<streuner_>but, i dont unterstand why this package isnt in testing or unstable nowadays, which should be important, IMO
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22:10<babilen>streuner_: Due to libmozjs{8,9,10}d
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22:11<streuner_>so its a version of iceweasel/firefox issue?
22:12-!-martin_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:12<streuner_>babilen: sure, but i have no idea whats behind...
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22:14<babilen>streuner_: Dependency (javascript library) of xulrunner-8/9/10 for iceweasel
22:14<jordanm>PTS says it was recently uploaed to experimentatl, but I don't see it there
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22:15<craigevil>xulrunner is/was the holdup with upgrading to the latest Aurora in the repo
22:16<jordanm>oh, right, 10
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22:20<streuner_>babilen: so it shouldnt work in testing?
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22:23<craigevil>iceweasel 10 from exp and 11 from mozdeb both install ok now
22:24<streuner_>sure, but this user needs libmozjs2d
22:24<craigevil>The following NEW packages will be installed:libmozjs11d xulrunner-11.0 iceweasel libnss3-1d
22:24<streuner_>or some package which works in testing
22:24<streuner_>craigevil: in testing?
22:24<craigevil>no sid sorry
22:25<streuner_>here we go :-/
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22:26<craigevil>libmozjs2d is in squeeze and sid but not in testing, should install ok with sid repos in sources.list
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22:27<streuner_>craigevil: how do you think its in sid?
22:28<craigevil>lol was looking at the packages search, didnt notice the architectures
22:29<streuner_>it gets better and better
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22:45<crow>join ronpaul
22:45<crow>join #ronpaul
22:45*retrospectacus passes crow a /
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22:54<crow>Thank you, retrospectacus. I'm out.
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23:24<jhutchins_lt>Yes, you definitely are.
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23:52<tp43>I can install iceweasel: iceweasel : Depends: xulrunner-1.9.1 (>= but it is not going to be installed
23:55<kilelme>tp43: maybe xukrunner not install yet?
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---Logclosed Thu Jan 05 00:00:59 2012