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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-02-09

---Logopened Thu Feb 09 00:00:08 2012
---Daychanged Thu Feb 09 2012
00:00<XeL64>scientes grub was install properly on mbr but crash
00:00<scientes>that because of that error
00:00<XeL64>error : /bin/sh can't access tty
00:00<scientes>or maybe something else...
00:00<XeL64>initramfs prompt
00:01<scientes>thats not the problem, that comes from not mounting the rootfs correctly
00:01<XeL64>maybe i need check fstab ?
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00:02<scientes>yes fstab is likely the culperite
00:02<XeL64>i boot again on live
00:02<scientes>also could be the root=UUID part of grub
00:02<scientes>both have to be correct for successful booting
00:04<XeL64>culperite ?
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00:08<simonlnu>culprit maybe
00:08<XeL64>new fdisk -l
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00:08<XeL64>look s better
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00:13<XeL64>no array detected
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00:22<XeL64>hum... i need to install mdadm and i can see array
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00:58<XeL64>it s booting
00:59<XeL64>when i install mdadm don t install in chroot i install it and now it s booting
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01:04<XeL64>thx for advices ;)
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01:52<scientes>if I install dbus-x11 on my arm wheezy box then any x session I launch crashes and dumps me back to lightdm
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01:54<scientes>I would like to have dbus session bus working
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01:54<scientes>as alot of stuff doesn't work without it
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02:44<Omar>Good morning
02:44<Omar>how are you guys
02:44<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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02:45<Omar>im here
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02:51<anton938>hello. i have a problem. could anyone help me?
02:51<anton938>how can i add windows xp boot record to menu.lst?
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02:52<anton938>i have mounted windows volume and sent command update-grub in the root console
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02:52<anton938>but it didn't help
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02:54<anton938>there is no windows record in menu.lst yet
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02:56<anton938>is anyone here?
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03:02<towo^work>anton938, paste fdisk -l
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03:02<towo^work>anton938, try os-prober
03:03<towo^work>anton938, and i realy suggest, update to debian 6 because debian 5 is eol
03:03<anton938>what is os-prober?
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03:06<anton938>os-prober reports that i have windows xp on dev/sda1
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03:11<streuner_>anton938: apt-cache show os-prober
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03:12<anton938>os-prober reports that i have windows xp on /dev/sda1
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03:18<retrospectacus>now run update-grub again, reboot and winoze should be there
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03:25<toxibunny>Hi, I was wondering if anyone could help me with a USB stick install please?
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03:28<retrospectacus>toxibunny: go on
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03:33<toxibunny>well, I haven't got a CD-rom, so I installed onto a USB stick from inside windows XP using Unetbootin. Everything seemed to go well until the very last part when it asked me to select a bootable drive to install GRUB onto. My USB stick wasn't on the list of options, so I selected my C drive, figuring that would give me the option on bootup to go to windows as normal, or debian on the stick.
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03:35<retrospectacus>wait, you had the installer on a usb stick, and you installed debian onto the same usb ?
03:35<toxibunny>It hasn't, though. And now my USB stick is unreadable through windows, just showing up as RAW format. I thought I should ask here if there's a relatively quick fix, rather than just trying the whole (hours long) installation process again, with no guarantee of success.
03:36<toxibunny>I think so.
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03:39<retrospectacus>do you get grub menu when you boot? or just windows
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03:39<toxibunny>I get an old grub menu from the time I tried Ubuntu
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03:48<toxibunny>Ideally, I'd like to use WinGrub to make the stick itself bootable - but not being able to read what's on the disk from windows, and not knowing anything about GRUB apart from what it is, I'm hesitant about just pressing buttons at random...
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04:09<toxibunny>Right. TL:DR :) - Is there any way I can use something like WinGrub to make my Debian USB stick bootable without ruining what's already on there?
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04:12<TCW>toxibunny, from what I got from your questions is: No, TL;DR does not aply here very well, sorry, you'd have to read some docs as what you are trying to do looks to me like anything but the default...
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04:14<TCW>toxibunny, but then again... I am quite certain you did mix things up there and maybe what you really want is very near to the "default" ;)
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04:24<toxibunny>I am a bit out of my depth here. Can we take this from a different angle?
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04:34<toxibunny>I would like to make a bootable USB stick, for practicing python programming in different places. I have: A winXP PC, a USB stick, internet connection, and no CD-rom. Maybe I don't even need debian, and puppy linux would do the trick?
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04:35<koollman>toxibunny: any live-usb linux would do the trick, I think. as long as you install python on them
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04:39<toxibunny>Right, thanks. I'll give that a go then. Cheerseveryoneloveyoubyeeee!
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04:43<TCW>python does run on Windows, so why all the fuzz?
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04:45<hassan>hi ganneff
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05:14<AlexFromBelgium>Hey erbody !
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05:40<deux>good morning everyone
05:41<deux>i'm a beginner trying to figure our debian
05:41<deux>could anyone direct me to a "bare bones to advenced understanding" book or resource?>
05:42<deux>also - i need help understanding how is debian built (in the sense of - first the linux kernel, then xorg, then gnome)
05:42<deux>is that right?
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06:36<Iridos>oh well
06:36<Iridos>at least didn't leave after a minute
06:36<Iridos>more like 9 minutes
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06:42<Timitoma>qe pollas pasa
06:42<Santi>jj ff fffjj fj jf ffj
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06:42<hols>jjff fff jjf
06:42<Timitoma>kj dd dff sjh sdf
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06:45<larbeem>hello there
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06:57<Iridos>wtf... since when has this become keyboard testing ground
06:58<Iridos>how about banning *
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07:01<simonlnu>Iridos: this #d (and fn one before it) has been for years ;p
07:01<SynrG>not the first violation for same crap yesterday ...
07:02<simonlnu>used to be an invasion of people that came in sometimes. we used to call them rimatards
07:02-!-gudjon [] has joined #debian
07:02<simonlnu>all same ip, multiple clients
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07:03<Iridos>typing looks like that of a cat
07:04<Iridos>pretty intelligent cat to connect to irc so often, though
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07:05<SynrG>9072 lines total matching rima-tde from 2011 (that's just parts, joins, etc.) and among those users showing up, some legitimate interactions, so a complete ban would not be without collateral damage, unfortunately :/
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07:08<Iridos>oh well
07:08<amphi>SynrG: yeah, it's a big ISP in .es
07:08<Iridos>then consider I said nuffin
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07:08<Iridos>let me correct that: consider I never said nuffin
07:08<Black_Prince>That's just one hostmask
07:09<Black_Prince>Yet it's dynamic ... you can't achieve anything without baning whole subnet
07:09<SynrG>yes. that's my implicit point :)
07:09-!-indio [] has joined #debian
07:09<SynrG>and i think Iridos got that
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07:23<Nik05>hey guys, how long does it take for a new package to get into unstable?
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07:23<lp>as which user does cron-apt run?
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07:25<Nik05>apt-get doesnt work without su
07:25<lp>i also thought so, since it needs lock on the database… however i see it's being blocked by iptables (outbound web access is only allowed for user root)
07:25<lp>either that, or i have a problem :-D
07:25<gry>Nik05: granted i am new here, but does the question about packaging belong to #debian-mentors ?
07:25<indio> /EXEC rm -vf /tmp/budus_XDCC__home_indio_26939.query
07:26<indio> /EXEC rm -vf /tmp/budus_XDCC__home_indio_26939.query
07:26<Nik05>euh im not the one making a package gry :P
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07:26<gry>ah, i see
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07:26<Nik05>im waiting for a package i need... :P
07:26<Nik05>its here as a NEW packages,
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07:26<gry>maybe depends on how long it takes for someone to decide to help with it
07:27<gry>keep idling please, someone should be more knowledgeable than i ;-)
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07:39<Iridos>Nik05, get into unstable from _where_?
07:39<ansgar>Nik05: Packages in new need to be reviewed by a person so it can take a while for them to reach the archive.
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07:39<Nik05>And how long can that take? :P
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07:40<SynrG>Nik05: anywhere from immediately to forever
07:41<Nik05>ok :)
07:41<Iridos>every year, a sparrow flies to a big mountain to sharpen its beak...
07:42<Nik05>And if I install the package manually, does apt take care of the packages when its in the archive?
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07:42<dpkg>well, new is the NEW queue for Debian packages, part of the <incoming> system, at . Packages that are in the NEW queue cannot be downloaded, because they have not yet been checked to see if they are allowed to be distributed by the Debian project.
07:43<SynrG>that wiki page links to some stats that might give you an idea of how often the new queue is whacked down to nothing
07:44<SynrG>i'm not sure what you mean by 'take care of'
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07:45<SynrG>you're free to install packages from anywhere ... and then the usual system of pinning priorities, dependencies, version# comparisons and whatnot is obeyed thereafter
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07:46<ribe>for some of us, if we can't get it via apt-get install, we don't need it!
07:46<SynrG>e.g. if you self-build a package that is in NEW and the version# is left untouched, when the real package hits the archive, obviously apt will not upgrade because the version# matches
07:46<Nik05>ok but it will update when there is a new version, etc.
07:46<SynrG>if you want the real package to supercede it, you must modify version# when you self-build (append ~something)
07:47<SynrG>why shouldn't it? apt doesn't care where you got it (except when figuring pin priorities). the name of the package is all that matters
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07:47<Nik05>Ok I downloaded the .deb package :)
07:48<Nik05>now i just installed with dpkg -i right? :P
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07:48<SynrG>sure. assuming all deps are already satisfied. if not, iterate
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07:53<ribe>in reference to my "sources.list" should I leave them pointing to squeeze as they are now? or change them to "stable"? squeeze is the current stable, what difference will it make?
07:54<SynrG>when the next stable is released, you want to decide when you upgrade, don't you?
07:54<SynrG>if you care about this, leave it as 'squeeze'
07:54<SynrG>then you make the conscious decision to upgrade later if-and-when you change that to 'wheezy'
07:54<ribe>doesn't make sence to change to the new stable when available?
07:55<SynrG>it does. but it also makes sense to schedule that when you want it to happen
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07:55<SynrG>rather than have it happen without you asking for it
07:55<ribe>I currently run them BOTH squeeze and wheezy on separate laptops
07:56<ribe>as when they deciden to change the gnome desktop on wheezy it happened allof a sudden
07:56<SynrG>some people tactically delay upgrades, hoping the hapless souls to do the upgrade first work the kinks out before they take the plunge
07:56<ribe>one day I turned on my wheezy laptop and it was Gnome3!
07:56<SynrG>that's a different issue.
07:57<SynrG>wheezy is a moving target. squeeze is not.
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07:57<ribe>but I was under the impression (correct me if I am wrong) that by the time it becomes stable it has been tested to death?
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07:57<SynrG>no. testing never *becomes* stable
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07:58<ribe>I meant by the times it becomes STABLE all the bugs have been dealt with?
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07:58<SynrG>all the RC ones, yes
07:58<philipp>guys how was this **** command to install a compiled program again?
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07:58<ribe>OK, so the botton line is that it makes sence to have FULL control of when you make the change?
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07:59<ribe>I get it!! makes sence THANKS!
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08:00<SynrG>yes. that is my opinion
08:00<ribe>I agree!!
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08:01<SynrG>philipp: something you've built from upstream source? it depends on the build system of the package, but usually that is 'make install'. don't take my word for it, though. read the README and/or INSTALL from the package.
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08:03<Iridos>ribe, "all the rc ones" means there's still plenty bugs left... but the good thing about them is that they stay the same for the 2-3 years of the release
08:03<ribe>please translate "rc"
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08:04<Iridos>release critical...
08:04<ribe>ok THANKS!
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08:04<Iridos>means stable can only release when those are fixed
08:05<Iridos>dpkg, release-critical
08:05<dpkg>Release-Critical bugs are Debian bugs with critical, grave or serious severities, preventing the next release of Debian. See the graph at or the lists at . See also <rc-alert>.
08:05<polluX[W]>I just installed a minimal netinstall, and dns does not seems to work. how can I test it ? (seems the 'dig' command is not part of base system)
08:05<ribe>I have only been using Debian since Debian 5, I love it, even though I play and explore other distros I think the WORLD of it and I have learned a LOT using Debian
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08:07<ribe>gotta go, see you all later! bye!!! and thanks for being here!
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08:08<SynrG>polluX[W]: does /etc/resolv.conf have something sane in it?
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08:09<SynrG>if not, maybe your DHCP server is not supplying you with an appropriate entry
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08:10<polluX[W]>I have no resolv.conf file. only and dns-nameservers entry in /etc/network/interfaces
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08:10<polluX[W]>which paquet provides resolv.conf ?
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08:11<SynrG>sounds like you don't have 'standard' installed, btw
08:11<SynrG>how did you do this install? sounds like you've made it way too minimal.
08:11<SynrG>you can manually create /etc/resolv.conf for now with a 'nameserver' line in it
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08:12<SynrG>you said 'minimal netinstall'. i guess you deselected 'standard'?
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08:13<polluX[W]>seems so. I used a netinst iso
08:13<SynrG>i would not normally do it this way. i would do a netinst with standard selected, then trim from that anything i decide i don't care for.
08:13<polluX[W]>I dont remeber uncheking stantdart tho
08:14<SynrG>well, dig is from dnsutils which is priority: standard
08:15<SynrG>maybe something went wrong in your install?
08:15<SynrG>sounds like you have a completely unconfigured base install
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08:15<polluX[W]>does the debian installer leaves a log somewhere ? i'll look into that
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08:20<nocturnal>I have dpkg-reconfigure'd exim4-config to an internet host on my debian squeeze. and I try to do echo 'test' | mail -s testmail dude@domain.root and get the bounced error back "all relevant MX records point to non-existent hosts". even though I can do host -t mx domain.root and nc -vv domain.root 25 and get a connection.
08:21<nocturnal>and I know the smtp server on domain.root works because it's active with many users. but it's an exchange server, microsoft. this debian is a lonely linux box in an office full of microsoft products.
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08:23<petemc>nocturnal: exim -bt dude@domain.root
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08:27<nocturnal>petemc: nice tip, thanks.
08:28<nocturnal>I tried changing to smarthost now, and put in the internal smtp server as the smarthost to use.
08:28<nocturnal>this time no bounce
08:28<nocturnal>but nothing in the inbox yet either. -bt looks fine. it does a lookup and just prints the results.
08:29<nocturnal>but no mail has arrived so far
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08:34<petemc>nocturnal: tail -f /var/log/exim4/mainlog , send a mail
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08:35<nocturnal>530 5.7.1 Client was not authenticated
08:35<nocturnal>that explains it
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09:17<bigos>jest tu ktos
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09:54<dpkg>Na kanale #debian rozmawiamy po angielsku; jesli chcesz lub wolisz mowic po polsku, wejdz na kanal #debian-pl na (Polish speakers please go to #debian-pl on pl is also <perl>.
09:55<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr.
09:55<Infiltrator>Not sure which it is.
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09:56<SynrG>Infiltrator: irrelevant since the person in question left a split second after joining
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09:59<nocturnal>more slavic than french
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10:03<simonlnu>that wasn't french at all ;)
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10:12<Infiltrator>SynrG: Sorry about that; I have the joins/leaves in a separate window to avoid the clutter. I'll remember to check first next time.
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10:12<Infiltrator>"j'est" is French, I thought? :P
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10:14<Infiltrator>I'm not very good with foreign languages.
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10:19<estefan>alguien habla español
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10:20<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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10:21<SynrG>Infiltrator: je suis, j'ai (i am, i have) but not j'est. maybe you're thinking of c'est?
10:22<Infiltrator>SynrG: Indeed I was.
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10:22<Infiltrator>Je ne parle pas francais.
10:23<Infiltrator>And I'm sure I misspelt some of the silent letters.
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10:31<franzel>I've done some looking and the more I read, the more confused I am witn bind9
10:32<cthuluh>good. time to take a look at nsd/unbound :)
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10:34<franzel>can someone help me understand bind9
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10:35<dpkg>i guess bind is the Berkeley Internet Name Daemon, a Domain Name System (DNS) server. To install: "aptitude install bind9 bind9-doc". See also <bind9 chroot>. #bind on
10:35<Infiltrator>Does that help any?
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10:36<franzel>Infiltrator: I've been there and not really
10:37<franzel>I know bind9 is used for dns
10:37<cthuluh>if that's all you know, those urls would actually help
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10:38<Iridos>if you want someone here to tell you something, ask concrete questions... e.g. of the type depicted in /msg dpkg ask
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10:39<franzel>thanks guys
10:40<franzel>still doing some reading. will use /msg dpkg later on
10:43<Infiltrator>franzel: I think he meant more as in ask questions as per this:
10:43<Infiltrator>!tell franzel about ask
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10:44<franzel>thanks Infiltrator
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10:46<Infiltrator>franzel: Though asking dpkg about things does give you some info and it usually also says "ask me about <foo>" which helps to get more info.
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10:47<abrotman>franzel: there's also a #bind on Freenode .. but they'll expect you to have read the docs and have a basic understanding
10:47<franzel>OK..will give the "asm me about"
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10:52<franzel>I followed a how to guide "setting up the perfect debian server with bind9 and dovecot. Right now, I am trying to figure out how to tie a domain name I purchased to a no-ip account I created and on my debian box
10:52<abrotman>franzel: the Bind ARM is actually pretty good ..
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11:02<Infiltrator>Does anybody know a way to make aptitude understand that if I'm upgrading a package to experimental, then it's also okay to upgrade to their experimental verions packages that this package depends on; but without making aptitude want to upgrade _everything_ to experimental (i.e. pinning)? Currently, aptitude prefers to uninstall packages rather than upgrade to experimental.
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11:43<semko>is there a difference between /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/?
11:44<semko>why does suggest me to make a new file?
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11:45<XayOn>semko: Because it's more mantainable. You can just delete the file if you dont want it and so on.
11:45<daemonkeeper>semko: There is no difference, it's just it is easier to maintain separate files for different packages and purposes.
11:45<semko>ah so!
11:45<semko>thanks for clearing that out :)
11:45<XayOn>daemonkeeper: Heh, I won ;)
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11:51<retrospectacus>Infiltrator: apt-get -t experimental install foo
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11:52<Infiltrator>retrospectacus: Is this available only via the CLI? The general scenario when I run into this problem is when I hit 'U' inside the ncurses interface.
11:53<Infiltrator>As in the package was already at experimental, but experimental moved, so aptitude would now rather downgrade/uninstall the packages than go to experimental.
11:53<Infiltrator>(At least from my understanding of it.)
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11:57<retrospectacus>Infiltrator: dunno, I don't use aptitude, only apt-get
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11:59<retrospectacus>Infiltrator: use /etc/apt/preferences to pin that package to experimental
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12:01<Infiltrator>retrospectacus: I'd prefer if there was a way to tell aptitude to do this in general, rather than specifying packages, as there can sometimes be a large number of dependencies.
12:01<themill>Infiltrator: you need to pin experimental at a pin priority 100 < P <=500
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12:01<Infiltrator>themill: Could you explain a little further, please?
12:01<themill>you should also only need to install one package from experimental at most and then let the dependencies drag anything else from experimental that is required
12:02<Infiltrator>sudo apt-cache policy | grep experimental shows: "500 experimental/main Translation-en"
12:03<Infiltrator>themill: That's what I would expect, but most of the time aptitude prefers to uninstall/downgrade and I have to manually go through all the deps and say to upgrade to the latest version.
12:03<themill>ignore translations, you want to see packages
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12:03<themill>also, you probably don't actually want to be consistently tracking packages from experimental
12:03<Infiltrator>Ah, well packages sits at 600 then.
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12:04<themill>that sounds very wrong
12:04<Infiltrator>I do in some cases (think gcc/g++ 4.7). I want c++11 already! :P
12:05<Infiltrator>Also I like having the latest kernel.
12:05<themill>there aren't any kernel packages at all in experimental
12:06<Infiltrator>apt-cache disagrees. :\
12:06<Hydroxide>the experimental repository is only intneded to be used together with the unstable repository, and if it works in any other combination, that's even less expected than experimental working generally
12:07<Hydroxide>there is also a separate debian kernel team repository where they build stuff before it enters the repository, but again, that's even less supported via standard debian channels than experimental
12:08<Infiltrator>themill: The *rc*s, I believe.
12:08<themill>Infiltrator: pastebin?
12:08<Infiltrator>Hydroxide: Yeah, I'm on unstable/experimental. :P
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12:09<themill>(the debian kernel team hasn't been using experimental much for the last couple of years.)
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12:10<themill>which you will see is *not* in experimental... and unstable has a newer kernel than that
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12:11<themill>also.. root privileges are not required to run apt-cache policy. Are you sure you should be running stuff from experimental at all?
12:11<Infiltrator>I know; I'm on the 3.2.4-1 at the moment. But when rc4 came, it was the latest available; and only in experimental.
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12:12<Infiltrator>themill: "Should" and "want to" are two different things. :P
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12:13<Infiltrator>And no, I'm not very knowledgable with apt.
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12:16<themill>yeah... you might want to fix that before you make life hard for you and everyone else by playing with experimental. Or unstable, for that matter. #debian isn't in the habit of supporting users of those repositories at all as people using those repositories should be knowledgeable enough to support themselves. We simply don't have the resources to support the problems that can and do come from those repositories.
12:17<Infiltrator>themill: I'm fine with fixing my own problems. I'm only asking about aptitude's behaviour in making it tedious (but not at all difficult) for me to cause problems for myself.
12:17<Infiltrator>Namely in not elegantly upgrading deps to experimental.
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12:18<themill>well, we've covered that -- get the pinning right.
12:19<Infiltrator>But that only applies to individual packages?
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12:19<themill>See apt_preferences(5) and /msg dpkg pinning
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12:19<Infiltrator>I already asked dpkg; but I'll try apt_preferences.
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12:21<Infiltrator>But as far I can see, pinning experimental higher or setting it as targe-release will make apt* want to upgrade _everything_ to experimental, no?
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12:24<themill>pinning is not just about the relative priorities
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12:25<semko>how does one search for a package in backports using aptitude or dpkg?
12:25<semko>(to see which version is there)
12:26<retrospectacus>semko: apt-cache policy foo
12:26*semko googled but couldnt find
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12:31<semko>retrospectacus, thanks
12:31<retrospectacus>semko: you're welcome!
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12:54<Infiltrator>Okay, so I've read and man apt_preferences, but I still don't see a way to tell apt* to upgrade deps to experimental if I upgrade a package to exp, but _not_ upgrade _everything_ to exp. Unless I'm missing something?
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12:56<retrospectacus>Infiltrator: apt-get -t experimental install foo :)
12:56<themill>(and pin between 100 and 500)
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12:57<Infiltrator>retrospectacus: Preferably through aptitude's ncurses interface, using the 'U' upgrade all option.
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12:58<Infiltrator>themill: But the man page says that if I set it to 500, then it will prefer all other releases?
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13:02<retrospectacus>Infiltrator: like I said, no idea about aptitude, especially the ncurses thing
13:03<themill>aptitude and apt-get do the same thing when it comes to pinning
13:03<retrospectacus>NB that synaptic does not! It ignores apt_preferences
13:03<themill>I thought it only ignored Default-Release?
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13:04*themill has not looked at synaptic since sarge so is not really in a position to comment
13:04<retrospectacus>oh maybe.. another thing I don't use
13:04<retrospectacus>you're right
13:05<retrospectacus>it has its own option for default release
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13:14<Infiltrator>So, to rephrase my question: If I'm running a/b, and most of my packages are in a, when I tell aptitude to Upgrade all, it should upgrade packages in b to the newest b, as well as all of its depencies, whilst at the same time keeping all packages in a only at the newest a, not going to b; however, at the moment, aptitude (not sure about apt-get) seems to prefer uninstall/keep/downgrade. If I pin b at (100,500], and a at (500,990], then apt* will prefer to
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13:15<retrospectacus>pin those certain packages to b
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13:15<themill>(also, /msg dpkg tias)
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13:18*zachary can't wait to get a Raspberry Pi to run Debian
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13:18<Infiltrator>retrospectacus: "without explicitly specifying packages"
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13:20<retrospectacus>how is it supposed to know which packages should be from a or b then?
13:20<jhutchins_wk>Isn't pinning pretty much deprecated?
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13:21<Infiltrator>themill: I will the next time the situation comes up.
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13:22<Infiltrator>retrospectacus: If cur_ver > a_ver, then do b_ver, else do a_ver?
13:22<themill>retrospectacus: packages that from B are already at a version higher than the same package in A. So when there's a newer version of that package in B (B'), B' > B > A, so it knows to upgrade to B'.
13:22<Infiltrator>i.e. always go up
13:22<themill>pretty much, yes
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13:23<themill>jhutchins_wk: of course not. (no more than aiming a loaded gun at your foot is)
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13:23<retrospectacus>I understand that, but I don't think that's how it works
13:24<Infiltrator>But I still don't understand how setting the priority _lower_ than it is now will change the behaviour from prefer downgrade/uninstall to prefer upgrade.
13:24<themill>(I don't think I have a single machine anywhere that doesn't have a little pinning around)
13:24<retrospectacus>lots of times a and b will have the same version
13:24-!-macucos is now known as kernel_
13:24<themill>sure, in which case the overall pin priority wins
13:24<Infiltrator>retrospectacus: In that case what does it matter?
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13:25<retrospectacus>it doesn't, but then if b goes to $version+1, do you upgrade ?
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13:26<Infiltrator>Most likely, I'll want b instead of a because it has features that a doesn't; if a ever catches up to b, then I'm fine with now tracking a instead unless the new b has more feature that I want.
13:26<Infiltrator>In which case, I'd manually tell it to go to b again.
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13:26<retrospectacus>you have to tell that to apt* using apt_preferences
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13:27<themill>no upgrade. The comparison is always between currently installed version and the two repos, with pins helping decide what should be done. The pin value is important as well as the sort order of the pin values.
13:27<Infiltrator>You know what would be cool? Being able to say install, preferring a over b, the version which has feature X. :P
13:28<themill>Sure. and I want a pony
13:28<Infiltrator>Really? Lame...
13:28<Infiltrator>I'd want a war horse, at the least.
13:29<retrospectacus>you seen the price of war horse food these days??
13:29<Infiltrator>Depends how close to the CBD you live, I guess.
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13:31<retrospectacus>I live in northern Canada
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13:33<zachary>Apparently china is producing cheap commodity war horse feed
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13:34<zachary>Its causing rhenal failure.
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13:41<Infiltrator>zachary: Do you mean 'renal'?
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13:41<Infiltrator>Either way, back on-topic, why does aptitude prefer to downgrade when the upgrade has a priority of 600?
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13:42<zachary>Most likely, I am not really too concerned with spelling on IRC
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13:43<Infiltrator>zachary: buh papal con git gonfushd
13:43<themill>Infiltrator: seeing the output of "aptitude safe-upgrade" might tell us
13:44<zachary>Infliltrator: haha
13:44<Infiltrator>themill: That will be null at this point, I'm afraid. :\
13:44<themill>rather difficult to do hypotheticals at the best of time with apt, and even harder on irc.
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13:46<Infiltrator>I'll check my laptop when I get home and see what it does. But the last time I tried aptitude safe-upgrade, it only wanted to upgrade ~10 packages out of ~40, because the full upgrade required uninstalls.
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13:47<zachary>I have to work, have a good one guys
13:47<themill>that could quite simply be fairly typical unstable brokenness. Add experimental to that and stand back.
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13:47<Infiltrator>I prefer to dive right in. :P
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13:48<Infiltrator>The thing is that when this sort of thing happens, I can manually go in and resolve the broken deps by upgrading packages myself.
13:48<Infiltrator>So it's not like it wasn't _possible_.
13:49<Infiltrator>I mean it manages to find really convoluted "solutions" such as uninstalling ~1000 packages rather than upgrading 1 to experimental...
13:49<Infiltrator>_That's_ what confuses me.
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13:55<Infiltrator>Admittedly, sometimes it is because of experimental borkedness, such as a missing package; the problem is that I now can't trust aptitude when it says it can't find an upgrading solution.
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13:56<themill>running it from the command line will often give a better overview of what it's planning to do and why
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14:00<Infiltrator>Yeah, I'll try it next time.
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14:10<moe1210>Hey Guys, has anyone got a second for a question on disks in debian
14:11<petemc>just ask
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14:12<moe1210>I've two disks, 1TB each and want to have a single folder with 2TB storage.
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14:12<dpkg>hmm... vm is either virtual machine (ask me about <virtualization>) or VM (View Mail), a mail user agent for <Emacs> bundled with XEmacs.
14:12<dpkg>[lvm] the Linux Logical Volume Manager ( Resources:, <lvm_tutorial>, <lvm removedisk>, <lvm movelv>, <install using lvm>,, IRC: #lvm on
14:13<moe1210>retrospectacus: thanks
14:14<paulehoffman>Newbie question: I need to find install ISOs for older versions (lenny and etch). has a directory for etch, but "cdrom" has no ISOs. None of the mirrors I tried had ISOs.
14:14<paulehoffman>Clues appreciated.
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14:16<paulehoffman>retrospectacus: many thanks! Got it on the first try.
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14:18<Infiltrator>Well, thanks guys; I've learned a lot about apt*. (I hope.)
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14:19<Infiltrator>paulehoffman: Out of curiousity, why do you want lenny and etch installs?
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14:22<paulehoffman>Infiltrator: There is an old package I want to build, and it *won't build* on current installs. Probably a library reorg.
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14:23<retrospectacus>paulehoffman: you could make an etch chroot using debootstrap
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14:28<XayOn>Or... fix the code and submit as backport.
14:29<XayOn>Uh, wait, its the opposite of backport
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14:38<paulehoffman>retrospectacus: That's a thought too.
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14:38<retrospectacus>if you know what you're doing it'd be quicker and easier than doing an install, IMHO
14:39<retrospectacus>unless you've already downloaded the etch CD I guess
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14:40<retrospectacus>good day chris
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14:40<chris>since the last security update for icedove i get /usr/lib/icedove/icedove-bin: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/icedove/components/ undefined symbol: NS_GetServiceManager
14:40<chris>when i want to start it, running squeeze
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14:40<chris>is it just me?
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14:43<chealer>chris: did you see ?
14:44<paulehoffman>retrospectacus: downloaded and installing. :-)
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14:44<paulehoffman>Again, many thanks.
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14:46<Infiltrator>As for my problem with aptitude, it seems that it was PEBKAC. XD Apologies to retrospectacus and themill for my stubborness.
14:46<themill>:) have fun
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14:48<chris>chealer: thanks! :) working again now
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15:46<scientes>"like conditional recommends which I’d love to see implemented¹,"
15:46<scientes>sounds hot
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16:04<Christian>test test
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16:04<Guest2071>What is the debian dev release channels called? Stable, Sid, unstable?
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16:06<retrospectacus>Guest2071: pardon?
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16:06<dpkg>See for an explanation of releases. See <release history> or for prior releases. Ask me about <stable>, <testing>, <unstable> and <introduction>.
16:06<dpkg>If you have to ask, you shouldn't.
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16:07<Guest2071>Ah Testing, that's what I was missing; is there a way to install specific packages from testing? for example having chromium from stable and wine from testing
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16:08<dpkg>A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>.
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16:08<SynrG>Guest2071: if there is no backport, it's not supported on stable.
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16:10<chealer>!tell Guest2071 about stable/testing mix
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16:16<retrospectacus>Xdept: hay? are we talking about horse feed again??
16:17<kop>msg dpkg scip is <reply> The Structure And Interpreation of Computer Programming is a book used to teach introductory computer programming at MIT. The complete course, book, quizzes, answers, etc., is available on-line at See also:
16:17<Xdept>retrospectacus, I had a hankering
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16:18<Guest2071>I apt-autoremoved xulrunner and now I can't install iceweasel, help?
16:18<retrospectacus>kop: itym sicp?
16:19<kop>retrospectacus: Typo. Now I have to figure out how to rename it. :-P
16:19<devil>Guest2071: iceweasel needs xulrunner
16:19<Guest2071>devil: yea but I can't install xulrunner
16:19<devil>Guest2071: and autoremove at the fingerips of newbs is dangerous
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16:19<devil>Guest2071: why?
16:19<themill>kop: done
16:19<kop>retrospectacus: I see. I wonder which is better? I'l have to change the link
16:20<Guest2071>devil: says it is nto going to be installed despite it being a dependency
16:20<devil>Guest2071: please pastebin that output
16:20<retrospectacus>!tell Guest2071 about bat
16:21<devil>Guest2071: what version of iceweasel are you trying to install?
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16:21<Guest2071>devil: originally beta, then aurora since that didnt work but even release doesn't work because it can't get xulrunner
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16:22<retrospectacus>it sounds like you are not typing the correct command Guest2071
16:22<retrospectacus>... exactly
16:23<Guest2071>weird, I just hit up-key to retry the command and it worked...
16:23<retrospectacus>Guest2071: are you reading it has the right command
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16:25<Guest2071>retrospectacus: I figured it out, just newbiness ^^;
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16:25<retrospectacus>ok :)
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16:26<Guest2071>is it worth quickly asking why I couldn't hear a flash video earlier?
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16:27<retrospectacus>you probably need to configure alsa to send audio to pulse
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16:34<Guest2071>Synaptic Package manager hasn't been able to open sinec I installed debian earlier and also Software Centre is stuck on 'applying changes' to PulseAudio Preferences, help?
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16:36<retrospectacus>Guest2071: "since you installed debian"? What did you have before?
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17:08<jhk>How do I run nvidia x server settings as root so I can save to the x configuration file?
17:08<jhk>I guess what is the command to start nvidia x server settings manager.
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17:09<Xdept>sudo nvidia-settings
17:09<retrospectacus>I just chmod 777 xorg.conf and let the user save it
17:09<retrospectacus>then chmod back
17:09<retrospectacus>that'll probably work too, gksu or gksudo or such
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17:18<daemonkeeper>oO That was a bad advise, retrospectacus.
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17:22<retrospectacus>which ?
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17:23<daemonkeeper>chmoding xorg.conf 777 just because one's too lazy to configure it properly. nvidia-settings works perfectly fine when started out of a root shell.
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17:23<retrospectacus>eh. he left anyways
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17:25<Infiltrator>Why 777 and not 666 anyway?
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17:26<retrospectacus>no reason! leave me alone!
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17:26*retrospectacus cries
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18:09<Nik05>lol just compiled a program... 25MB :P
18:09<Nik05>after stripping 0.25MB :)
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18:10<Nik05>oops this is not offtopic
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18:15<mlaks>hi. i am having trouble. am running sid on a laptop and now when i try to do apt-get install i am getting error from the resolver. i try to remove packages but still
18:15<retrospectacus>!tell mlaks about bat
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18:18<devil>mlaks: sid is supported in #debian-next
18:18<devil>mlaks: and, when running sid, you ahould be able to resolve probs with apt
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18:19<mlaks>well i have many times resolved with apt-get install -f and have resolved small package problems. now i apt-get is recursively asking me to remove packages :)
18:20<mlaks>and i am getting into a deeper and deeper hole
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18:21<devil>as i said, #debian-next please
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18:21<mlaks>ok i will move the queston to debian-next.
18:22<mlaks>i sent in two posts to debian-user which never appeared. how to check if there is a problem with my mailing account. i still receive the usual postings from debian-user?
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18:23<mlaks>sent on feb4 and feb5 and nothing came out. ihave never had this before
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19:12<Infiltrator>!ops Guest2084
19:12<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: infiltrator complains about: Guest2084
19:13<gry>Infiltrator, they left already
19:13<Infiltrator>!ops nm ><
19:13<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: infiltrator complains about: nm ><
19:13<Infiltrator>I give up; I need to sleep.
19:13<RichiH>sleep sounds good
19:13<gry>good night :)
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20:30<Aleric>When will 'testing' have kernel 3.2?
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20:36<scientes>Aleric, if you want kernel 3.2 install it from sid, simple as that
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20:42<scientes>why is /usr/bin/ssh suid root?
20:42<valdyn>scientes: it isn't?
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20:43<scientes>I did find /bin /sbin /lib /usr/bin /usr/sbin /usr/lib -perm /4000 -user root
20:43<scientes>and it printed out /usr/bin/ssh
20:43<scientes>maybe that was a mistake when i was unsuiding other files ???
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20:45<chealer>Aleric: we can't know in advance, but probably soon
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21:30<agent785>i need some help
21:30<Xdept>What was your Question
21:31<agent785>im trying to load otr for xchat
21:31<agent785>i got xchat and xchat-otr-0.3
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21:34<agent785>i think i solved it though
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21:42<microbe>Hi there :) I just pluged in a NTFS IDE hard drive disk in my debian desktop pc, but i dont know if it's recognized
21:43<microbe>Any help ? ^^
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21:44<microbe> im totally new under debian, and im a noob with linux os :)
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21:46<Xdept>ls /dev/ | grep /dev/sd*
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21:47<Xdept>microbe, Did you try that?
21:47<Xdept>Also, Research ntfs-3g
21:47<microbe>It seems to take a while .. I just tried this now
21:48<microbe>Can i pastebin the output for you ?
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21:49<Xdept>Well, it will tell you, How many hard drives do you have? Then it will be sd* for example HD1= sda, HD2 = sdb
21:49<microbe>But i cant grep the output :/ it dont work
21:49<microbe>ls /dev/ work, but without grep
21:51<Xdept>ls /dev/ | grep sd
21:51<Xdept>apt-get install grep?
21:52<microbe>Wait ^^ thanks for your help i'll try
21:53<microbe>ls /dev/ | grep sd works, output: sda, sda1, sda2, sda5
21:54<Xdept>Is your main hard drive IDE or SATA?
21:54<microbe>the one i just plugged is ide too
21:55<Xdept>Oh, Try ls /dev/ | grep hd
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21:56<Xdept>They Must not be IDE Then?
21:56<microbe>.. they are not sata disk x) i'm sure it's ide
21:57<Xdept>Give me the output of df
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21:57<Xdept>Just the / line
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21:57<microbe>/dev/sda1 156320652 3662996 144717000 3% /
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21:57<Xdept>That's a sata drive
21:58<Xdept>Or SCSI Drive
21:58<Xdept>Is your NTFS Drive IDE?
21:59<Xdept>Can you pastebin the contents of /dev/?
21:59<microbe>Yes, i'm sure its IDE, they are both like this:
21:59<panko>dmesg in a console should tell you if a new usb device is connectec and type of device, microbe
22:00<Xdept>That is IDE, However you are mounted on a SCSI/SATA Drive??????
22:00<panko>ups, sorry, plug into pc, not usb?
22:00<microbe>I never mounter my system disk, i just installed debian, and that's all i know :D
22:01<microbe>Yeah, pluged into computer, without usb adaptater
22:01<panko>try fdisk -l (as root), it should list all disk on your sistem
22:02<microbe>Xdept, here is my /dev/
22:02<microbe>Ok panko i try
22:02<panko>or, if you want use graphical app, try gparted. Its an app for partitioning/formatting disks
22:03<microbe>panko, with fdisk -l i dont see my 320Gb disk i pluged in, i see only my system disk
22:03<panko>have you look at computer's bios if disk is recognized?
22:03<microbe>is it possible that i have a jumper problem ?
22:04<Xdept>MAybe you haven't set the master/slave properly
22:04<panko>yep, it's possible
22:04<Xdept>See if Bios picks it up
22:04<microbe>Hum okay :D
22:04<microbe>i will look now
22:05<microbe>thanks for your advice, see you :) i will come back sureley, maybe for another noob's problem :) good night
22:05<panko>microbe: put jumpers as master and slave
22:05<microbe>i dont have enough jumper here x)
22:05<panko>sometimes, "cable select" doesn't work properly
22:06<microbe>ok, i will check that, and find some jumpers
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22:06<microbe>then look with ls /dev/ and fdisk
22:06<panko>take a look, possibly, one of disks doesn't need a jumper to be a slave or master
22:06<microbe>Okay :)
22:06<Xdept>Also, Make sure it is on the right header on the cable
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22:07<microbe>if i plugged my second hard disk on the same cable than my cd/rom, its bad ?
22:07<microbe>Ok so i will check jumpers config :) thanks, i'm gone
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22:07<panko>no, while you respect....
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22:12<blinded>hello.. trying to run debian squeeze on a little arm box, the install script fails to create the default lvm partitions during installation.. works fine without lvm or encryption
22:13<blinded>logs say that vgcreate command failed
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22:13<blinded>can anyone shed light on this?
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22:15<microbe>Aaaaaaaah :3 it works !!!
22:15<microbe>i see my ntfs disk with fdisk
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22:16<microbe>Now i have to mount it ?
22:16<panko>microbe: mount tells you all devices mounted on your sistem
22:17<f4star>microbe! what exactly are you trying to do?
22:18<microbe>Now i need to mount /dev/sda1 witch is a NTFS disk, i want it mounted in "/share"
22:18<microbe>and possibly, i want it mounted at boot :)
22:19<panko>just add a new entry at file /etc/fstab (look before for documentation), and it'll be mounted at system start
22:19<microbe>Okay :D thanks
22:19<f4star>depends what mbr he is using!
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22:20<microbe>i dont have dual-boot, if its what you mean by mbr
22:20<f4star>well explain please
22:22<microbe>i just have a system disk, where i installed debian, and now i putted a old usb drive (IDE) without usb, but its full of documents, so i cant format it to linux format
22:22<microbe>sorry for my bad bad english
22:23<f4star>laptop? desktop?
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22:24<f4star>System disk?
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22:25<microbe>system disk is not partitoned, only debian is on it, with a swap partition
22:26<f4star>what exactly are you trying to do? Debian does not boot?
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22:27<microbe>No, now it's okay, i just wanted to see my ntfs disk, it was a jumper problem ... now i'm gonne read fstab doc for have it mounted at boot :)
22:30<f4star>Debian is not friends with ntfs! Make sure you over write the hard drive you are using with at least 10 passes
22:31<microbe>i dont want to overwrite data :o
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22:31<microbe>320 Gb full of important data
22:31<microbe>i will put this disk in a read only directory
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22:32<panko>then, remember add "ro" option when you create fstab entry, microbe
22:32<microbe>thanks for this advice :) i'm reading fstab and mount documentation now :)
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22:33<panko>google can help you too, you can find some examples
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22:33<microbe>yeah, i found donc on
22:35<panko>je... its plenty of howtos and blogs for *buntu any search containing "howto" and "linux" xD
22:35<simonlnu>and half of it probably irrelevant for debian
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22:36<panko>yeah, probably, half... or more xD
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22:36<microbe>sometimes, its just more friendly to ask comunity :)
22:37<microbe>I know there is a lot of forums, but i think irc is good when you have a consice question
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22:38<panko>of course... right answer just become after right question :)
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23:39<sergiuliano>I use apache/fast cgi and get many errors on fastcgi, shall be a solution to change from fastcgi to cgi ?
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---Logclosed Fri Feb 10 00:00:33 2012