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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-04-18

---Logopened Wed Apr 18 00:00:26 2012
00:09<nevyn>mizzle: did you allow related back?
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00:13<teage>question, I read that crunchbang is literally debian squeeze. Is that right?
00:15<haylo>i use cb some - it is made from debian
00:15<haylo>but only debian is debian
00:15<haylo>debian is like god and crunchbang is like one of its worshipers
00:16<haylo>but if you are looking for a model of how to use openbox window manager correctly - crunchbang is a good route
00:16<haylo>it is all about utilizing openbox WM
00:16<teage>Yeah figured that cause some things are different. Like build-dep is funky. Thinking im gonna go back to squeeze. Not sure about cb right now.
00:17<haylo>ah id say dont use it
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00:17<haylo>i mean i love cb i love the peopel
00:17<haylo>but it is maintained by one man
00:17<sney>the thing you lose when you go to based-on-debian is the official debian support
00:18<haylo>yeah cb support you will learn more about debian then you will here
00:18<sney>in some cases like ubuntu this is fine for a new user, since you lose debian support but you gain something that's almost as good
00:18<sney>but with the little boutique distros...
00:19<haylo>yeah it is all just gift fish
00:19<madsci44>what exactly do you loose with "official debian support" ?
00:19<haylo>right in front of the pond
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00:21<madsci44>or may i should rephrase: what constitutes "official debian support" sney?
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00:22<sney>madsci44, among other things, you can't get help here or on the debian mailin lists; you don't get the debian bug tracker
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00:22<sney>also, based-on distros tend to throw careful debian decisions out the window, usually in the name of newer versions of things, and that can cause more issues than you'd get in an official debian release
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00:23<sney>I mean, it's a personal decision on the part of any user. but there's a good reason debian consistently shares the top of the 'most common web server OS' graph
00:23<madsci44>yeah - the latter is why I have never used anything else besides debian... its a reliability thing, and debian has generally been the best (imo) at keeping its ducks in a row.
00:25<haylo>i use only debian and freebsd between the two they are the best of both worlds
00:25<haylo>that i have found anyway
00:26<madsci44>makes sense about the IRC, mailing lists and bugtracker, - I just asked because "Official Debian Support" sounded a bit... idonno grandiose? :) but thats probably just me..
00:26<haylo>i mean linux should be called debian in some peoples opinion
00:26<haylo>in fact GNU/debian is really the official name for linux
00:27<sney>don't let stallman hear you say that
00:27<haylo>unless i am reading misinformation here
00:27<madsci44>linux is good in the general sense, if you understand the terms the distinctions are quite clear
00:27<haylo>in the general sense it is the best
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00:35<nevyn>haylo: it depends if you're using strict or popular definitions
00:35<nevyn>linus would be most unhappy to hear his project should be named debian
00:35<haylo>ah yeah sorry- i have just read that so many times
00:35<Infiltrator>I'm trying to do 'brctl addif br0 wlan0' and get 'can't add wlan0 to bridge br0: Operation not supported'; wlan0 is configured by nm. Reading says that it should be fine. I've installed and run the ebtables commands.
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00:36<nevyn>Debian isn't just Debian GNU/Linux there's als Debian GNU/kfreebsd
00:36<haylo>i think i am goign to try that
00:36<sney>Infiltrator, try it with wlan0 in interfaces instead
00:37<haylo>just seems so weird to me nevyn i guess you are right though , debian can be bigger then linux
00:37<haylo>and support linux at the same time
00:37<haylo>well that is even cooler in my opinion
00:38<scientes>GNU/Linux is far better IMHO
00:38<sney>linux is just a kernel, debian is more defined by the apt/dpkg tools
00:38<sney>and the policy, of course.
00:38<scientes>esp, since with android you can run into people saying nonsensicle things like "android is linux, but it isn't linux"
00:38<nevyn>android is linux.
00:38<scientes>what its much clearer:"android is linux, but doesn't contain GNU"
00:38<sney>debian gnu/linux is much more solid than debian gnu/kfreebsd but it's only a matter of time before they are equal
00:39<scientes>but you can only understand the latter if you know what GNU is
00:39<nevyn>sney: I'm not convinced.
00:39<madsci44>hmm thats odd - did a few installation passes last couple days with no issues at all - then just now I repeated one - but it asked me for firmware, - last time it didnt - i guessed because the LAN was in a gigabit switch rather than a 100m as prior, but now booted into new install and locks up with a corrupt display as soon as framebuffer kicks in.
00:39<Infiltrator>sney: Any tips for wlan0 in interfaces rather than sney? I never actually figured it out, and there's nothing in man 5 interfaces for wlan. :(
00:39<sney>Infiltrator, iirc it's one of the few things the debian wiki actually covers.
00:39<nevyn>sney: particularly with things like systemd on the horizen
00:39<scientes>andoird is all fed up anyways thou, the linker only supports 96 shared libraries
00:39<scientes>at once
00:40<sney>nevyn, time marches on
00:40<scientes>yea for arbitrary limits
00:40<haylo>GNU tooolchain it is , is that all of our unix like tools?
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00:40<scientes>haylo, no android uses its own linker
00:40<haylo>yeah sorry i mean in general
00:40<scientes>GNU is most of the core system that isn't linux
00:41<haylo>ok and then the srest is really just a file system?
00:41<scientes>well, i guess there is alot of other core stuff, like systemd and udev and dbus, that isn't GNU or linux, but stuff
00:41<haylo>oh ok
00:41<Infiltrator>sney: Cool. Thanks.
00:42<scientes>haylo, the GNU C Compiler, and toolchain are super-critical projects however
00:42<scientes>along with glibc
00:43<haylo>that C compiler is that what compiles debain at install?
00:43<scientes>haylo, debian is distributed already compiled
00:43<haylo>ok cool
00:43<scientes>(but source for everything is available)
00:44<haylo>well il get back to reading the man
00:44<scientes>the vast majority of debian is compiled with GCC (in this case the GNU compiler collection)
00:44<sney>I wonder if it would be fair to say, gnu/linux only exists because they never finished hurd
00:44<scientes>and large parts of GNU originally come from corporate efforts, ADA from the US Air Force, from Google, etc, etc
00:44<scientes>sney, while i like the name GNU/Linux, I dont like that explination
00:45<scientes>its too "cathedral"y
00:45<scientes>people did GNU/Linux cause it was the first totally free system
00:45<Infiltrator>Hm, okay. How do I tell nm to not reconnect on wlan0 when I tell it to disconnect?
00:45<scientes>Infiltrator, turn wlan0 off
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00:47<sney>Infiltrator, more accurately, turn nm off. service network-manager stop
00:47<scientes>sney, you can turn off just interfaces, and not the whole thing
00:47<scientes>(dont know how from command line)
00:48<sney>yeah but he's trying to bridge wlan0 with something else so he doesn't want it truly disabled
00:48<sney>at least as I understand it, he just wants it free of nm's influence
00:48<scientes>if you define the interface in interfaces nm wont mess with it
00:49<sney>I think nm needs to be restarted to notice that, though
00:49<Infiltrator>But it is defined in interfaces. If I turn wireless to off from the GUI, and then 'ifup wlan0', I get "RTNETLINK answers: Operation not possible due to RF-kill".
00:50<scientes>ahhhh what was i just thinking about!!!! arggg
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00:54<Infiltrator>Ignore that; restarting nm seems to have fixed it.
00:55<scientes>smart apps use inotify to automatically restart when the configs change....
00:55<Infiltrator>Having said that, brctl still doesn't want to add wlan0. :(
00:55<scientes>infernix, you cant bridge a wireless device (!)
00:56*scientes is suprised how many times he has had to tell people that
00:57<Infiltrator>scientes: Accroding to you can.
00:57<haylo>Infiltrator, i use wicd
00:57<haylo>nm drives me crazy
00:57<Infiltrator>scientes: And in general, it's also possible.
00:58<scientes>well wireless can only have one MAC address
00:58<sney>nm is great unless you need to do something specific in which case it quickly becomes really annoying
00:58<scientes>not two
00:58<scientes>you cant put it in promiscuous mode
00:58<Infiltrator>scientes: Yeah, you use ebtables for that. (I think.)
00:59<scientes>its a very differn't type of bridge, and IMHO not really a bridge at all
00:59<scientes>its more like static routing
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00:59<scientes>"ebtables is essentially like iptables, except it operates on the MAC sublayer of the data-link layer of the OSI model, instead of the network layer. In our case, this allows to change the source MAC address of all of our frames. This is handy because we fool our AP into thinking that all of our forwarded frames come from the machine which authenticated to the AP. "
00:59<scientes>oOo that is clevert
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01:00<scientes>it just uses the same MAC address for every ip address i think
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01:00<scientes>and then remungs it after it goes across the wireless
01:00<scientes>to get around the limitations of wireless
01:01<scientes>so its half way between static routes and bridging
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01:02<scientes>because it has to know the leases behind itself
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01:02<scientes>meh, i dont see how you couldn't just fake the whole thing, by translating arp messages and keeping a translation table
01:03<scientes>and thereby avoid all this configuration
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01:39<LogicGuy>I'm chatting from the raspberry pi
01:39*LogicGuy feels good man
01:39<LogicGuy><3 Debian
01:40<LogicGuy>I can't get the sound to work
01:40<LogicGuy>and hardware acceleration is totally missing
01:40<LogicGuy>but other than that, feels good :D
01:42<jm_>running debian?
01:43<jm_>i am still waiting for mine
01:44<LogicGuy>I received it by UPS and ordered it from Newark
01:46<LogicGuy>on launch date
01:46<LogicGuy>had to stay up until 5 AM
01:46<LogicGuy>to order it
01:46<LogicGuy>many people were being confused
01:46<LogicGuy>and signed up for some newsletter by RS
01:46<LogicGuy>some chill dude from the IRC channel on raspberry pi said that Canadians and Americans can order it from newark
01:47<jm_>yeah interesting, I thoguth they will be available in UK only (that's where mine's coming from)
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01:47<LogicGuy>how much will it be + shipping + taxes ?
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01:55<jm_>arround 30GBP + shipping to me but that shouldn't be much since I'm in EU too (the order was placed by my brother's friend who lives there)
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01:59<jm_>he ordered two :)
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02:19<h_fat>'m unfamiliar with Debian's processes and I don't know if this belongs in the main channel. I've encountered a vexing little bug in testing with update-rc-d and boinc-client. I've had to make changes manually without the help of any documentation because the package's default runlevels "do not match LSB Default-Stop values". The issue is documented: but I don't know what to make o
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02:25<jm_>h_fat: your message was cut off at "what to make o"
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02:34<h_fat>jm: sorry, I was trying to post on a single line as per the guidelines. I'm reposting:
02:34<h_fat>I'm unfamiliar with Debian's processes and I don't know if this belongs in the main channel. I've encountered a vexing little bug in testing with update-rc-d and boinc-client. I've had to make changes manually without the help of any documentation because the package's default runlevels "do not match LSB Default-Stop values". The issue is documented: but I don't know
02:34<h_fat>what to make of it... Is someone taking care of the matter already? Should I (a clueless user) file a bug about an issue others are already aware of? That page seem to claims it's a bug with other packages but it seems to me it's really a bug with update-rc.d: users should be able to force the change they want or at least be told how it's recommended that they fix the issue.
02:34<h_fat>In my opinion, not providing a way for users to configure their services' runlevels is unacceptable. What should I do in your opinion?
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02:35<jm_>just submit a bug
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02:37<h_fat>jm_: yeah but to what packge? I'm not sure what the "feature" was even trying to accomplish...
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02:38<jm_>h_fat: boinc-client
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02:39<LogicGuy>jim_, can you recommend me what packages to install ? :)
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02:43<jm_>LogicGuy: if you are asking me, the nick is just "jm_", without the middle 'i' - what do you want to do?
02:43<LogicGuy>what packages will you install
02:43<LogicGuy>the moment you can get your hands on Raspberry Pi
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02:45<jm_>I intend to use it instead of my STB, so I'll look at stuff like xbmc
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03:51<EmleyMoor>Why would NFS not work between two of my systems? I changed ISP last week, hence IP changes, and it hasn't worked since. I think I changed the IPs in all relevant files, but still no go. Client is using autofs and can see the /net/servername/... structure, but fails to find anything in the actually-shared systems - it can see the names of them but no content.
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03:58<EmleyMoor>Claims "No such file or directory" when I try to cd into one of them
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04:00<EmleyMoor>NFS is working with this machine as client, the other as server, but not the other way round
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04:21<youlysses>When and why has #debian-next been invite only?
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04:26<s_i_m>youlysses, how did you get this idea?
04:26<youlysses>2/2 times, it's (the server) has warned me ...
04:27<youlysses>Weird... I must of messed up my erc windows ... and tried to join the one @freenode
04:27<youlysses>But if one exists on freenode why is it invite only? :-P
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04:29<s_i_m>if it is so, you should get an invite and ask it there =)
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04:33<youlysses>True. I just find it's weird, because I thought all @freenode hosted channels were down. :-S
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04:45<korencia>I 've noticed ftp access to repo does not work. At least for testing (wheezy now). why this drop of ftp?
04:46<jm_>WFM, but note that is several servers
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04:48<luk> /load .xchat2/
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04:49<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... not even a full restart of nfs at the server end is making a difference
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04:49<korencia>OK. But they should work seamless.. Maybe problem of 1 of all.. thx. Luckily at least http works fine.
04:50<luk>Ciao a tutti
04:50<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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04:56<pooppa>Hi all, whene I click on NetworkManager applet icon, X halt, what I should look?
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04:59<luk> /MENU ADD "$URL/Download-XDCC" "budus macro xdcc %s"
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05:02<korencia>When hibernate, the notebook does not turns off in hardware. Only stays with dead irresponsive console (after all RAM pages persisted). When normally turn off, all works OK (hardware turns off). I have as much ACPI and APIC packages as possible.. Where's problem? (testing AMD64, ASUS K72 notebook)
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05:09<EmleyMoor>When I try to mount NFS manually using another potential client machine, I get: mount.nfs: access denied by server while mounting ...
05:09<EmleyMoor>How can I see why that happens?
05:09<jm_>usually hosts.allow/deny, and on linux it shall log it if configured
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05:10<EmleyMoor>Not to do with the entries therein
05:11<jm_>there are also exports options that affect it
05:11<EmleyMoor>It's not logging anything, and the exports options are not the cause
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05:20<hw>If I set the kernel root cmdline option to an external USB device I get a read-only rootfs. Why is that?
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06:04<EmleyMoor>I cannot see any obvious, nor even mildly obscure, reason why my nfs server won't let my clients mount its exports...
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06:07<sk>anybody here?
06:07<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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06:08<sk>can anyone tell me meaning of (*p)->counter = ((*p)->counter >> 1) +(*p)->priority; ?
06:08<sk>it's in kernel 0.11 sched.c
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06:10<EmleyMoor>Is there any way I can get more (i.e. any) logging of what the nfs server is doing?
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06:14<sk>/var/log/nfs.log or nfs is not enough?
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06:20<jose>olá amigos
06:20<EmleyMoor>sk: There is no such file
06:21<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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06:23<jose>daew vééééhios
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06:25<sk>it's in linux kernel 0.11/kernel/Sched.c
06:25<EmleyMoor>I mean there is no such file as /var/log/nfs.log
06:27<sk>so what about /var/log/nfs or the where you set nfs log
06:27<EmleyMoor>No /var/log/nfs. I made no conscious setting.
06:28<jose>my kernel is 3.0
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06:30<sk>sorry ,i get something wrong ,only solaris has nfslogd ,others just have syslog
06:30<EmleyMoor>jose: ... and? Do you have some kind of problem with Debian? If so, why not state it clearly but concisely?
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06:31<EmleyMoor>sk: Right - and it's not logging anything there.
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06:34<trevor>what up
06:35<sk>so ,i have nothing about this.ask someone else please
06:35<trevor>anyone know any good websites for learning CSS?
06:35<EmleyMoor>sk: I asked the channel, not you personally.
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06:40<sk>i googled, someone said /var/lib/nfs have message
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06:43<EmleyMoor>Nothing useful there.
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06:47<EmleyMoor>I have another NFS server that is working - the setup, apart from the exports, is the same
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08:49<rfictus>hey all
08:49<rfictus>anyway to run a port scan through terminal ?
08:50<ichdasich>rfictus: erm... erm... erm... besides this not being debian related at all...
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08:51<ichdasich>i would personally reconmend using the searchengine of you choice, combined with your question. even if you do that literaly... it should proof to be amazingly helpful
08:51<rfictus>can u recommend me one?
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08:53<Sicelo>yeah, not debian.. anyway, nmap
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08:54<andresvia>rfictus: Google these days has been known for giving good search results.
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09:05<gnugr>rfictus:to check what ports your system is using current time run "netstat -tulpnc"
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09:06<rfictus>grugr: thx
09:06*babilen wonders what "netstat -cthulhu" would do (jk!)
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09:09<SynrG>i have a choice of two bare-metal recovery approaches for a raid mirror 500G of which 4G is in use and is unlikely to grow too much over the next year. i already have a complete rdiff-backup of the system, but that doesn't handle partitions, etc. what i thought i wanted was approach 1: clonezilla the disk to a compressed image, restore whole system from clone + rdiff-backup restore. since i have difficulty with this (details to follow) i ...
09:09<SynrG>... think it may be better (less time to implement, not too much more time to restore, and less overhead in terms of redundant backup media) to restore first some minimal rescue image, then layer on rdiff-backup restore on that.
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09:10<SynrG>comments, before i go into details?
09:11<SynrG>if there's some way using purely debian tools to do approach #2, i think this is less complex and more likely to produce what we want.
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09:11<drebs>hello! :)
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09:11<SynrG>(if i have to discuss difficulties with approach #1, it doesn't belong here, but on some clonezilla support channel instead, so i'm not going to cover that here anyway)
09:12<drebs>excuse me to ask a question: i (still) have a lenny installation, in a server which is kind of difficult to upgrade.
09:12<drebs>for some weeks now I see that apt-get can't find lenny repos anymore
09:12<SynrG>right. see channel topic about that. they have been moved to if you can't upgrade, you need to edit your /etc/apt/sources.list to point there instead.
09:12<drebs>someone has a clue on what to do? were lenny repos really dropped from apt repositories?
09:12<drebs>SynrG, thanks a lot
09:12<SynrG>they're dropped from the mirrors, yes
09:13<drebs>SynrG, thanks, gonna talk to dpkg ;)
09:13<SynrG>and since you're pointing at the archive, they will *never be updated*. you have been warned.
09:13<SynrG>(i.e. no security patches, etc.)
09:13<SynrG>it is in your best interests to figure out how to upgrade this server, difficulties notwithstanding
09:13<drebs>yes, thanks. our server's situation is really odd, and we'll update as soon as possible
09:14*SynrG nods
09:14<drebs>SynrG, do you have any experience with raid configuration upgrades?
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09:14<drebs>should they work without problems? hehe :)
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09:15<blast007>drebs: as is the case with anything, plan for the worst, and have backups ;)
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09:16<drebs>blast007, thanks :)
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09:17<drebs>we're fucked up because we have no local people to login, etc if anything goes wrong
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09:17<SynrG>regarding my question above, is grub-mkrescue + rdiff-backup of the whole system sufficient for a recovery of a raid system?
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09:17<SynrG>or is there some other element i'm missing?
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09:18<SynrG>or if not grub-mkrescue, then what tool to create a minimal base rescue image that will restore just enough of the system to bootstrap the rest from my rdiff-backup?
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09:20<blast007>drebs: ah, yes, I've never done major upgrades on a system I didn't have hands-on access to. :)
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09:23<blast007>!es kn13
09:23<dpkg>kn13: Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat
09:23<gnugr>SynrG: wonder if "chroot" can help your issue
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09:27<SynrG>gnugr: that's not really an answer. i can imagine scenarios in which chroot is an ingredient, but that in no way solves the problems of:
09:27<SynrG>1. on the restored system, restore my partitions & raid configuration
09:27*gnugr was just a thought
09:28<SynrG>2. on the restore system, establish a minimal environment from which i can bootstrap the rest
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09:29<SynrG>now, maybe this is all just stupidly simple (use the standard 'rescue' option of debian install media, manually recreate raid, uncheck everything but base, then bootstrap the rest after first boot)
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09:29<SynrG>but that doesn't address the fact that i may have some custom mountpoints, etc. that would need to be subsequently manually restored. i had hoped that there was some sort of minimal 'mkrescue' that i could use for that purpose to save doing individual steps
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09:31<blast007>SynrG: well, in the event of a complete crash, how quickly would you need the system back online?
09:32<SynrG>next day is probably fine, but sooner is better than later. it is not a critical system.
09:32<SynrG>also, it's the first of its kind in our office. we may want to use what we've learned here to set up a second system that is more critical to get back up quickly.
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09:32<SynrG>or else our needs for the system may change over time, making a quick recovery more vital.
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09:33<babilen>SynrG: Hmm, I typically also create backups of the mbr/partition table with something like: "dd if=/dev/sdX of=sdX-mbr.bin bs=512 count=1" -- Maybe LVM snapshots come in handy. (Or even running this in a VM and creating snapshots of that.
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09:33<SynrG>this is the first time i've had to think about 'enterprise' needs for recovery. prior to that, i only had to worry about my own personal systems
09:33<babilen>same here
09:34<babilen>But do yourself a favour and don't buy IBM Tivoli :)
09:34<nevyn>which bit?
09:34<nevyn>I mean it's all bad.
09:34<SynrG>babilen: but is the mbr/partition table really as useful as i think it is? it's likely if the disks are toast they'll be replaced by something different, and then geometries are bound to differ.
09:34<nevyn>but it is that much worse than BEA or any of the other junk?
09:34<SynrG>so, some comments from someone with practical experience would be helpful
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09:35<babilen>SynrG: Well, it helps if somebody does something stupid with dd -- I like to have it around, but it is definitely not as important as other data.
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09:42<blast007>SynrG: you might want to consider looking at commercial options as well, especially if you're wanting to eventually back up critical systems. as nice as it might be to have a "free" solution, it's nice having a well tested system with a support team you can call. Just a thought, anyway..
09:42<h_fat>SynrG: I'm not qualified to answer debian-specific but since you're getting relatively few answers I can tell you about some things I've done...
09:42<h_fat>I've used Clonezilla to backup systems which were down as well as LVM to backup root partitions which were running. The boot paritition is easy to backup with dd or whatever you prefer to use and there are tools which will dump the partitions/MBR (though you can do it with dd). It's a good idea to dump that stuff to text as well if you plan to restore on dissimilar hardware.
09:42<h_fat>If you have two 500G drives in RAID1 it's trivial to copy the partitions/MBR to a third drive and to replace one of the array's drives with it. Assuming you didn't have anything running which can't survive a power failure, the drive you removed will be a perfect copy you can use for fast disaster recovery.
09:42<h_fat>Rsync and rsync-based solutions such as (if I'm not mistaken) rdiff-backup can be used to make differential backups from the last full backup. A script can be set up in cron to do them automatically and to send the diff to a remote backup server if need be.
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09:44<h_fat>Also if someone knows about a good commercial solution, I'd be interested but so far everything I've seen (even the free-to-use sort-of commercial stuff) is grossly inadequate for the needs of an organization with a single small server.
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09:46<blast007>h_fat: well, if you have a single small server, a backup appliance is a overkill. For that, a little NAS with a RAID1 would be a viable backup target, as well as some USB hard drives rotated and kept offsite.
09:46<SynrG>blast007: nope, not considering commercial options at this time. but thanks for the input. i'm betting i'm hours instead of days from a solution and adding in a product evaluation cycle & purchasing decision is going to drag it out into days. i'm over budget and late delivering this, i just need a "good enough" solution at this time.
09:47<blast007>SynrG: tried stuff like Bacula and Amanda?
09:47<SynrG>h_fat: clonezilla gave me nasty messages about not recognizing the raid member partition type and seemed to suggest that it wasn't even going to compress the result
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09:47<SynrG>h_fat: but the messages were ambiguous enough so that i don't know until it finishes if that is the case or not
09:48<SynrG>h_fat: if it *is* going to compress it, we're probably fine. i can just set up the partitions again on the pair of new drives, restore to one drive and then let it rebuild the array on first boot.
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09:48<blast007>SynrG: frankly, for the non-critical system, it'd probably be "good enough" to document a clean install of Debian and then the proceedure(s) to get the system back up to speed and data restored
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09:49<SynrG>blast007: it falls between non-critical and critical, unfortunately. what i mean is, it's going to inconvenience about 3 people, but we are a small business, so that's a large percentage of the whole department
09:49<blast007>or even have some spare drives set up with the base system that you can swap in
09:49<h_fat>SynrG: come to think of it, I don't think I've used Clonezilla on a RAID array. Recent versions work with LVM though.
09:50<SynrG>h_fat: ah, and in the initial setup of this system we have no lvm. that was probably a mistake we want to correct soon.
09:50<SynrG>as i understand with lvm, live snapshotting is possible
09:51<blast007>which only really helps with certain issues, not hardware dying ;)
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09:51<SynrG>blast007: many years ago i used amanda with actual tapes. way overkill for a small deployment.
09:52<blast007>but like you said, you intend to expand this to other servers
09:52<blast007>so would it still be overkill for when you are backing up multiple systems?
09:52<SynrG>no, i said this may at some point expand, but was non-committal about that :) i just don't want this learning exercise to be a waste
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09:53<SynrG>so, bonus points if the solution scales to two systems (one production, one development). and no more.
09:53<SynrG>that's not a primary goal
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09:53<h_fat>blast007, SynrG: Actually spare drives with the base system are also useful if the hardware dies.
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09:54<h_fat>Thought you might as well have the whole thing on a spare drive if all you need to backup are two RAID1 drives.
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09:54<blast007>h_fat: I wouldn't want the "backup" on a disk installed in the server you're backing up. Let's say the PSU dies and takes your hardware with it... ;)
09:55<blast007>or water damage.. or any kind of other issue like that
09:55<h_fat>blast007: obviously the spare drive needs to be disconnected once the backup is done (and ideally stored in another location)!
09:57*gnugr as "time machine" works for macosx
09:57<SynrG>let's cut through this and simplify what i'm asking:
09:57<SynrG>1. clonezilla + rdiff-backup?
09:57<SynrG>2. restore minimal environment by agency of some rescue media + rdiff-backup
09:58<SynrG>is there sufficient advantages to 1 over 2 to make it worth pursuing?
09:58<blast007>SynrG: try both
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09:58<SynrG>we have tried 1 and failed. is there sufficient advantage to 1 over 2 to try again until we get it right?
09:58<SynrG>because if there isn't, we'll ditch it and try 2
09:59<blast007>use the one that works
09:59<SynrG>that's a non-answer
09:59<SynrG>1 *probably* works
09:59<blast007>use the one that works the best :P
09:59<SynrG>it's a matter of trying to assess level of effort
09:59<hw>What is the easiest way to download deb packages for a different architecture?
09:59<SynrG>another non-answer. i'm looking for people with experience to help me assess level of effort
10:00<blast007>then ask clonezilla if what trying will work:
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10:01<SynrG>that was what i led with: i will not discuss #1 here now. i wanted to know if #2 is sufficiently easy to try, based on feedback from people here who may know the answer to that already.
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10:02<SynrG>also, i favour pure-debian solutions over third-party, but that's just a personal bias (i'm sure my boss just wants something that works)
10:03<SynrG>so back to one *possible* solution i thought existed in debian but now have doubts: is there some easy minimal rescue image creation tool? grub-mkimage looks like that sort of thing. and if so, do you use that tool?
10:04<h_fat>SynrG: clonezilla + rdiff-backup has a definite advantage: if you can get Clonezilla to recognize your array, you'll restore fast.
10:05<SynrG>h_fat: when you say "recognize your array" you mean at backup time or restore time?
10:05<SynrG>what i've read is that clonezilla knows nothing about raid
10:05<SynrG>(software raid)
10:06<SynrG>so the basic approach is: backup a single drive of the mirror, and on recovery, re-setup the mirror on new drive, then restore a single drive. on first boot, it will rebuild the mirror on its own
10:07<SynrG>my only difficulty is the confusing messages about the raid partition type being unrecognized that seems to suggest compression may not be used. that's a non-starter if i am backing up my 4G/500G to a 16G usb key
10:07<SynrG>(4G used out of a full 500G drive)
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10:07<h_fat>SynrG: by "recognize" I mean able to look into the RAID partition, backup only data instead of using dd and so on.
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10:09<gnugr>hw:read this to get an idea ""
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10:11<SynrG>the clonezilla faq suggests the workaround will do it just by booting with 'nodmraid'. haven't tried this yet, but i have my doubts as to how that helps in this case. i *am* seeing separate drives. doesn't this mean i don't need the 'nodmraid' option?
10:12<SynrG>h_fat: anyway, if otherwise this sounds like a solid approach that's worth pursuing, i'll give one more kick at the can before trying the alternatives. thanks for your input
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10:13<h_fat>SynrG: if nothing else works for you can always boot a generic Live CD with mdraid support from CD or USB Flash. Then restore your 4G of data using a file-level tool. But next time use LVM and make a relatively small root partition. You'll then be able to back that up to a small Flash drive or to the cloud at the partition level.
10:13<blast007>SynrG: would this be of any help? One feature that might help specifically is "Easy creation of customized unattended ISO"
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10:27<hw>gnugr: thx
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10:33<indigo>any ideas on how one would boot the debian installer on a system that does not support PXE boot, USB boot, and hangs at the ISOLINUX message when booting from the CD?
10:33<movl>indigo: did you check the CD?
10:33<indigo>i've used it to install dozens of other systems also
10:33<movl>and isn't the drive's lens dirty?
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10:34<indigo>it installed windows fine enough
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10:34<movl>does it work with other media?
10:34<movl>I'd say try another CD tho
10:34<indigo>what i actually ended up doing is booting of the old windows install there, and using the windows bootstrap thingy
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10:35<indigo>i'm trying to think of how i'd recover that system if that HD ever failed, though -- short of re-installing windows, then debian.
10:35<movl>image the drive
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10:35<movl>or even dd
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10:36<indigo>i guess for that matter i could install to a new HD on another system, then put the HD in the problematic system
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10:36<movl>that too
10:36<indigo>really the more likely senario is needing to repair grub.
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10:38<blast007>indigo: might also try something like Etherboot/gPXE. I've used that previously on some old K6/2 systems to PXE boot them. (I had a floppy disk image tailored to my NIC via ROM-o-matic)
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10:39<blast007>another one is iPXE, which seems to be "the official replacement for gPXE"
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10:41<SynrG>h_fat, blast007: just to sum up, after discussion of the options with my team (yes, we're aware of fai, blast007, not going there) we agree "fewer moving parts" is probably going to serve us better in the long run. we know how to do a fresh install. we know how to rdiff-backup restore. all we need to do is put those together.
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10:42<SynrG>thanks again for everyone's input
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10:44<SynrG>but to calibrate my expectations: i should be able to now: 1. boot debian install media, 2. enter 'expert' mode, 3. select only the initial stages of the install, up to initializing a raid array and setting up network 4. drop to a shell to network mount the rdiff-backup (or if not easy, mount physical media containing it) 5. rdiff-backup restore to /target
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10:45<SynrG>sound like a reasonable approach for something we hope we never have to do, and could get the system back up and running in an hour or so?
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10:59<tom2bor>hi just try to create an own debian distribution on basis of netinst.iso
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11:00<tom2bor>copied everything from my approx proxy server, but i become the: apt configuration problem...
11:01<tom2bor>can anybody help me?
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11:01<movl>tom2bor: maybe #debian-devel would help more
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11:02<SynrG>tom2bor: that's not a very clear problem statement.
11:02<SynrG>movl: i wouldn't be redirecting users who fail to ask precisely what they want to #debian-devel :/
11:03<SynrG>i don't think 'own debian distribution' is a devel issue. that's more of an admin-type thing
11:03<tom2bor>i will ask more precisely on debian-devel, thanks
11:03<SynrG>because it is for your own consumption
11:03<SynrG>tom2bor: as i said to movl, i don't think this is a devel question
11:03<movl>SynrG: right
11:03*indigo ducks
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11:15<tom2bor>OK, I try to explain my problem more clarify. I need my own distribution of debian, which will be build on the basis of netinstaller.iso. They are some extra packages which I want to add to the installer. My idea is to unpack the netinstaller and copy the context of the dists, pool directories from my approx offline repository to the netinstall directory and create a new iso image. I use also the preseed.cfg to auto answer t
11:15<tom2bor>he questions. If I try to install in the offline mode (I use the preseed 'd-i netcfg/enable boolean false' parameter), than the apt configuration problem during the installation will be thrown.
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11:16<kop>SynrG: That sound appropriate. For myself I prefer rsync hardlinked backups and a similar approach. Note that you may need to pay attention to the uuids of the various storage elements, either setting them to match what's on the backup when you create them or frobbing the restored uuids on record.
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11:16<kop>SynrG: (There's nothing like trying it once to get the kinks out.) Sometimes also, depending on your hardware environment you may need to "updateinitramfs -u" the restored image to get it to boot.
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11:17<kop>msg dpkg flavor
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11:20-!-mode/#debian [+l 517] by debhelper
11:21<kop>tom2bor: You need to decide if you've really a separate distribution or just a "blend". See If you're doing a blend then then those people may be able to help.
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11:21<kop>tom2bor: There may also already be a blend that does what you want, possibly.
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11:22<kop>!pure blend
11:22<dpkg>A Debian Pure Blend (aka Blend, formerly Custom Debian Distribution) is a subset of Debian configured to support a particular target group out-of-the-box. Not to be confused with distributions <based on Debian>. #debian-custom on
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11:23<SynrG>kop: "rsync hardlinked backups" differs from rdiff-backup how?
11:24<SynrG>kop: re updateinitramfs -u, thanks for that tip
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11:26<SynrG>tom2bor: you have said "the apt configuration problem during the installation will be thrown". i don't exactly know what you mean by that. specific error message(ss)?
11:26<SynrG>message(s)* sorry, net lag and keybounce
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11:26<kop>SynrG: rdiff-backup does incrementals, the result is a "what's new" and needs all previous incrementals plus the last full backup to restore. rdiff makes backups that use hard links to previously backed up files that have not changed. You use inodes and space for directory entries but otherwise no new storage. Anything new is copied. So, the result is a directory that looks like a full backup but does not need the storage a full backup takes.
11:27<SynrG>kop: is that a backend that is supported by backupninja? or would be easy to support? or is it sufficiently easy so i don't need to care about ninjabackup supports and can set up manually with a minimum of fuss?
11:27<SynrG>er, backupninja*
11:27<kop>SynrG: It's nice to have a directories that look like full backups to be able to browse and so forth.
11:28<SynrG>the plus with backupninja is its simple, pluggable nature handling db backups, scm, etc.
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11:30<SynrG>i have invested enough in backupninja + rdiff-backup to date and as i said earlier we're over budget and late, so i would need a *really compelling* reason to switch now
11:30<tom2bor>SynrG: I translate from german: "there was problem while trying to configure the apt, to install the packages from the cdrom"...
11:31<SynrG>tom2bor: please, it would be easier if you set LANG=C and tried again, then show all error messages in context in a paste bin (e.g.
11:31<SynrG>as we can look up exact error message texts, whereas we can't look up your translation.
11:31<kop>SynrG: or rsnapshot (which won't push) or dirvish or just rsync and roll your own.
11:32<kop>SynrG: You probably want to stick with what works.
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11:32<SynrG>apparently backupninja only supports rdiff-backup, duplicity and CD/DVD
11:32<kop>SynrG: Any of the things I listed will need a separate mechanisim to dump any dbs to the fs before backup.
11:33<SynrG>yeah. disk space is cheap. my time is not.
11:33<kop>SynrG: Basically, as you know, you need to use the db's dump/restore to get backups that have integrity.
11:33<SynrG>that's what the backupninja recipes take care of
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11:34<kop>SynrG: I usually do something custom, because there's always bits and pieces of the db that are handy to have separate backups of.
11:35<tom2bor>SynrG: stupid question, how to set LANG=C?
11:35<SynrG>for a given command 'command':
11:35<SynrG>LANG=C command
11:36<SynrG>i have to run. lunchtime
11:36<SynrG>hopefully others can help when supplied with accurate account of errors you're encountering
11:36<SynrG>kop: yeah, understood. thanks for your input
11:37<kop>SynrG: update-initramfs is the spelling.
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11:41<phenoman>hi, i need help, can someone tell me how to use syslinux to create bootable x86 image??
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11:42<kop>phenoman: You have to give us a specific problem you're having. Otherwise, go rtfm.
11:43<phenoman>i need a command using syslinux to create that image.... was trying but don't know how to do it
11:44<phenoman>i'm installing nicta sel4 microkernel.... need for school...
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11:45<kop>phenoman: That sounds offtopic for #debian. Perhaps there's a syslinux channel (on freenode?)
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11:46<EmleyMoor>What software exists in Debian that can work with a typical DVB-T card?
11:46<phenoman>i tried but cannot find it... and i so much need help.... just interested if you guys can help me....
11:46<SynrG>kop: er, yeah, i knew that ;)
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11:48<SynrG>phenoman: while we are sympathetic to those with other non-debian problems, as we are to world peace and other nice causes, we can't help with that stuff here. sorry.
11:48<kop>phenoman: You could look at the pxeboot examples in the debian install guide/tarballs.
11:48<phenoman>thx kop :)
11:49<SynrG>or what kop said, but be aware that to the degree it diverges in your case from how it works with debian, we still can't help :)
11:49<blast007>phenoman: have you read the documentation for syslinux?
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11:50<phenoman>i did but i dont get it... :S
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11:51<dpkg>hmm... homework is something you should do yourself.
11:53<tom2bor>SynrG: I changed the installation language: The error:
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11:54<SynrG>tom2bor: at this point, examine logs on the system to find out why
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11:54<SynrG>tom2bor: alt-f4 if i recall correctly
11:54<SynrG>also you can drop to a shell and examine logs in /var/log
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11:55<tom2bor>what command i can you to see the /var/log?
11:55<tom2bor>vi douen't exists in the console
11:55<tom2bor>in the shell
11:55<kop>tom2bor: more
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11:57<SynrG>i question, if you need this level of help, whether this is an exercise you're really up to handling. however, we'll see how far we can get with a bit of guidance ...
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11:57<SynrG>generally, creating a custom distro is a 'hard' problem that assumes at least some basic skillset managing on your own with stuff like this
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11:59<kop>And, if it's really a debian derivative distro then it's offtopic. The question is whether it uses only the stock debian repos or not. If it does it's probably a "blend" and on-topic.
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12:02<SynrG>it smells to me like merely a matter of properly configuring approx to be suitable to use instead of a full debian mirror.
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12:02<SynrG>maybe missing archive key or some such. examining the logs should tell.
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12:05<SynrG>approx may not be an appropriate / stable enough tool to base a distro (even for own use) on, though. you might want to check out the debian-blends project to see what they recommend for making a partial mirror for that use case.
12:05<tom2bor>SynrG: the errors from the console:
12:05<SynrG>(at least, i've found in the past with approx that its data structures can end up corrupted, and then i have to force remove the whole archive and rebuild from scratch)
12:06<SynrG>that sounds like the *end* of a report of a whole lot of other errors
12:06<SynrG>i think you'll need to dig back further into the logs (probably /var/log/syslog) to find out what went wrong
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12:09<tom2bor>i try the installation from VBox, any idea how to copy the whole file to the other machine?
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12:10<tom2bor>i'm in the installation console, ssh is not avaible...
12:11<SynrG>mount some writable location available to VBox
12:11<SynrG>you can create a separate writable virtual filesystem for this purpose
12:11<SynrG>you can make it a 'raw' type
12:12<SynrG>that can be mounted *outside* VBox and read
12:12<SynrG>(mount it loopback)
12:12<SynrG>see the excellent user's guide for virtualbox
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12:16<SynrG>hm, dunno if it specifically deals with creation of the raw image. just dd an appropriate size of zeros (use /dev/zero as input) then you can fdisk that, mount it loopback and put a filesystem on it should work.
12:16<indigo>how can one go about associating the devices in /proc/scsi/scsi with files in /dev?
12:18<kop>indigo: There's probably info in /sys/, but it's always voodoo to me.
12:18<indigo>yeah, that's about how much i understand.
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12:19<kop>indigo: /dev/disk/ or something, has symlinks to the real /dev, that might help.
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12:22<SynrG>tom2bor: i've not done this, but "VBoxManage --clonehd <uuid>|<filename> debian.raw --format RAW" might be used to convert the whole .vdi to a raw image that can then be loop mounted to examine its contents
12:23<SynrG>(unless there's some way to directly loop mount a vdi that i'm not aware of ...)
12:24<tom2bor>SynrG: one question more. What you will be propose me to create an offline installer, dvd or usb, which will be automatic installed in the offline mode. This should contain and install some packages from the debian distribution like apache-2, opendoffice, etc. Maybe there are some tools, projects that help me do this work. With approx it was just an idea...
12:24<tom2bor>i do not want to deliver 18-DVD from the official debian distribution...
12:25<SynrG>you don't need all 18. just the first.
12:25<SynrG>plus whichever of the set also includes added packages you want
12:25<SynrG>but maybe look into jigdo
12:25<SynrG>it sounds like that's what you're really after
12:26<dpkg>Jigsaw Download (jigdo) is *the* method for downloading CD/DVD/BD images of Debian. See "Downloading Debian CD images with jigdo" at .
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12:28<tom2bor>thanks, i will try it and see more for problems in my installation...
12:28<tom2bor>have unfortunatelly to go...
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12:36<indigo>kop: so, it looks like sg_map -x will print the scsi addresses of the devices
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12:47<rfictus>anyone know of a good free vpn service??
12:47<brad>pay for one
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12:48<brad>they're dirt cheap if you setup your own vps with pptpd
12:48<brad>speaking of pptpd anyone know how to route ipv6 back to the client?
12:48<brad>so i can access v6 websites?
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12:49<rfictus>brad, can u explain a little?
12:50<brad>rfictus, get a VPS (Virtual Private Server), you can get them for like $5/mo, maybe less.
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12:50<brad>install pptpd on it, and connect, your own personal VPN
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12:52<luchino>brad: after the vpn is established you can just run anything to assign a dynamic ip to the vpn client that will be routed to the tunnel on the vpn server, openvpn does it easily, don't know how to do it with pptpd but man ip should give enough clues.
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12:52<luchino>brad: or you use fixed ipv6 addresses, easier.
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13:32<Vertus>jest jakiś polak?
13:32<dpkg>Na kanale #debian rozmawiamy po angielsku; jesli chcesz lub wolisz mowic po polsku, wejdz na kanal #debian-pl na (Polish speakers please go to #debian-pl on pl is also <perl>.
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13:33<defnordic>Hi, I'm having some problems doing an install of a python 'egg' with easy_install, anyone have experience with this? I get a huge amount of errors like
13:33<defnordic>"src/lxml/lxml.etree.c:159268: error: expected declaration specifiers or â...â before âxmlXPathContextâ
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13:34<defnordic>Might it be some encoding errors, that it is trying to parse c files with wrong charsets?
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13:36<indigo>anyone have some experience with iscsi? I seem to have my target and initiator connected, at least the target lists something in /proc/net/inet/session. Yet, I don't see any devices on the initiator. I'm not sure if I'm looking in the right place.
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13:37<sistem_neo>i have some trouble with mousekeys
13:38<sistem_neo>i can control mouse pointer with mousekeys but i cant see pointer
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13:39<movl>sistem_neo: stable?
13:40<movl>sistem_neo: what video hardware?
13:40<movl>tell us more?
13:40<sistem_neo>via tech video hardware
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13:40<movl>and Debian stable?
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13:42<movl>my only idea as of now would be to try to change the cursor theme, see if that helps
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13:43<blast007>is there some option that that hides the mouse cursor when typing?
13:43<sistem_neo>i couldnt find it
13:44<blast007>k. I don't generally use a GUI on Linux, so I wasn't sure. :)
13:44<sistem_neo>which packages should i install for pointer
13:44<sistem_neo>there is pointer but it doesnt move
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13:46<sistem_neo>i ll try
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14:05<rfictus>what is the tracert command for terminal ?
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14:06<petemc>i prefer mtr
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14:07<sistem_neo>i changed mouse color but still problem goes on
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14:29<inter82>ciao a tutti
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14:53<chrismay>Hi, doing this: and getting that: any ideas?
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14:54<chrismay>it worked before upgrading wheezy today
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14:56<chrismay>i remember using the same intructions weeks or month ago
14:56<dragos>someone help me?
14:56<dragos>with my wireless adapter...:((
14:57<dragos>I am new to linux / debian
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14:58<chrismay>dragos: i suggest posting your error at a place like this so your questions becomes more clear
14:58<dragos>chrismay i am new to linux...what error?
14:59<kop>dragos: You ask the channel (or at, although the experts tend to be in both). You need to ask a specific question. Type "/msg dpkg ask" into irc for a private message from the bot. (You may also want to "/msg dpkg introduction" and "/msg dpkg overview" because you're new.)
15:00-!-mode/#debian [+l 530] by debhelper
15:00<chrismay>maybe watching your log file with "tail -f /var/log/syslog" as root when plugging in your wireless lan adapter
15:01<dragos>chrismay wireless is not activate...
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15:01<kop>dragos: Why would you expect it to? (This is an example of a question we should not have to ask.)
15:02<dragos>i understand
15:03<dragos>debian found another driver...
15:04<chrismay>dragos: log files are our friends
15:05<dragos>i have hp 4520s with ralink rt3090bc4
15:05<dragos>write tail -f /var/log/syslog ?
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15:06<dragos>Apr 18 14:21:08 debian anacron[3934]: Updated timestamp for job `cron.weekly' to 2012-04-18
15:06<dragos>Apr 18 14:22:02 debian anacron[1936]: Job `cron.weekly' terminated
15:06<dragos>Apr 18 14:22:02 debian anacron[1936]: Job `cron.monthly' started
15:06<dragos>Apr 18 14:22:02 debian anacron[1936]: Job `cron.monthly' terminated
15:06<dragos>Apr 18 14:22:02 debian anacron[1936]: Normal exit (3 jobs run)
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15:06<chrismay>dragons: yes, enter it into your shell after becoming root with su
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15:07<chrismay>dragons: open xterm for example, type su, press enter
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15:08<kop>!tell dragos about paste
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15:08<nsadmin>dragos, can you connect your debian by wired temporarily?
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15:10<kop>dragos: Do you have another box you can irc on while the debian box is running?
15:10<dragos>i have permanent wired
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15:10<nsadmin>what does that mean. "permanent wired"?
15:10<dragos>internet cable
15:10<abrotman>dragos: they mean a LAN cable, a network cable
15:10<nsadmin>ok, so can you connect your box using that cab le?
15:11<dragos>lan cable.yes
15:11<dragos>my problem is wifi
15:11<dragos>because not working
15:11<nsadmin>so, connect that cable so that you can download needed material
15:12<dragos>what material?
15:12<abrotman>packages, firmware, etc
15:12<dragos>this is my problem
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15:12<dragos>because i also do not
15:13<dragos>utilizes for the first time Linux
15:13<chrismay>how do I go about installing pdo_oci?
15:13<abrotman>dragos: which linux is this ?
15:13-!-hoehle is now known as hoehle_
15:13<abrotman>which one ?
15:14-!-hoehle_ is now known as hoehle
15:14<nsadmin>dragos, ok, so if you want to get your wireless working, you will very likely need to download stuff to make it work... make it easy to help you and be cooperative in asking for help
15:14<dpkg>rt2860sta is the vendor driver for Ralink 802.11n PCI (RT2760, RT2790, RT2860, RT2890, RT3090, RT3091, RT3092) wireless LAN devices, included as a staging driver (amd64, i386 only) in Debian 2.6.32 kernel images. Firmware is required, ask me about <ralink firmware>. . Disabled in Debian kernel images post-Squeeze and removed at Linux 3.0, ask me about <rt2800pci>.
15:14<retrospectacus>dragos ^^
15:14<nsadmin>are we sure that's his card?
15:15<retrospectacus>he said... 12:05 < dragos> i have hp 4520s with ralink rt3090bc4
15:15<nsadmin>oh, good enuf
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15:15<nsadmin>are you running your new debian now?
15:16*kop wonders what a "staging driver" is.
15:16<abrotman>kop: they sing, dance a bit ..
15:16<kop>abrotman: Ah, but when it comes time for the really _good_ stuff....
15:16<nsadmin>ok, try this if you've connected, try: ping -c 4
15:17<abrotman>kop: then they wear costumes!
15:17<dragos> read
15:17<dragos>and follow the steps to install
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15:18<chrismay>this won't be easy without touching the terminal anyway
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15:19<chrismay>setting up wpa_supplicant needed "manual labor", at least for me
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15:20<chrismay>that's not very helpful I know
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15:21<dragos>i installed firmware-ralink but after send iwconfig command say: no wireless extension
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15:22<dragos>what is problem?
15:22<chrismay>dragos: maybe it's just me who things it's import but what does "uname -a" tell you?
15:23<abrotman>dragos: did you reboot ?
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15:24<dragos>no. need reboot?
15:25<dragos>Linux debian 2.6.32-5-686 #1 SMP Mon Mar 26 05:20:33 UTC 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
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15:27<chrismay>dragos: so we have: rt3090bc4 and kernel 2.6.32-5-686
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15:28<dragos>firmware version is not good?
15:28<chrismay>dragos: is it bluetooth!?
15:29<dragos>adapter is combo...
15:29<dragos>but...bluetooth working..
15:29<chrismay>dragos: see, brand new stuff i guess
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15:30<dragos>laptop has 1 year not new
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15:31<chrismay>okay, depending on your perspective I'm wrong :)
15:31<FragByte>dragos: you should reboot first as the firmware gets not loaded until you reload the module, then report back
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15:31<dragos>ok FragByte ...reboot now
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15:35<dragos>not working :((
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15:35<dragos>where wrong...?
15:35<chrismay>i had to echo the vendor id into the proc filesystem to get it recognized; but I can't remember exaclty
15:36<FragByte>dragos: please paste the output of 'dmesg' to pastebin, so we can see if there is something wrong with the firmware
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15:38<chrismay>or was it the sys file system, hell it took me while ..
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15:40<FragByte>dragos: there is broadcom wifi chip in your machine that is requesting firmware: brcm80211: fail to load firmware brcm/bcm43xx-0.fw
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15:40<dragos>so...what to do?
15:41<FragByte>dragos: try installing broadcom firmware instead
15:41<dragos>is an address?
15:42<chrismay>dragos: aptitude search firmware
15:42-!-herbert_ [] has joined #debian
15:42<chrismay>dragos: aptitude install "firmware-name form output command before"
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15:43<herbert_>bin neu hierä
15:43<FragByte>herbert_: das ist ein channel in dem englisch gesprochen wird ;) und Hallo natürlich
15:43<chrismay>wir auch :)
15:43<dpkg>Deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in (auf, oder - German speaking users please go to (on, or
15:44<dragos>aptitude install firmware-brcm80211
15:44-!-herbert_ [] has quit []
15:44<dragos>this is command?
15:44<chrismay>very well :p
15:44<FragByte>dragos: that seems to be correct
15:44<dragos>wooaw....i am the best :D
15:44<chrismay>just keep going
15:44<dragos> reboot?
15:45-!-user_ [] has joined #debian
15:45<chrismay>can't hurt
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15:45<sney_>reboot is a good idea to make sure the firmware loads properly
15:45<dragos>excuse me...
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15:46<chrismay>how do we go about installing pdo_oci?
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15:49<chrismay>setting up oci8 with these instructions: worked well for me and print_r(get_loaded_extensions()) shows it's working
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16:02<cq_>hello, I need a syncml server for calendaring and tasks... I see horde and kolab packaged, any suggestions on which one to use? They seem to use components of each other, and I cant figure out which makes more sense for me
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16:03<dragos>whell until debian freeze
16:03<dragos>in login section
16:03<indigo>cq_: would you prefer having bamboo hammered under your fingernails or your toes cut off?
16:04<dragos>i eneterd in recovery mode
16:04<FragByte>dragos did it freeze _after_ reboot, or before
16:04<cq_>indigo: that bad? ;) any simpler syncml servers out there?
16:05<FragByte>dragos: did you try it multiple times or just once ?
16:05<indigo>cq_: actually i haven't tried either of those packages, but calendaring seems to be an impossible problem.
16:05<dragos>i eneterd in recovery mode and i write command aptitude remove firmware-brcm....
16:05<cq_>well, i'd settle for tasks even, I can use google cal if I have to
16:05<indigo>cq_: i suggest simply not tracking the dates of anything.
16:05<dragos>and now boot completed
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16:06<dragos>multiple time
16:06<indigo>cq_: have you tried a whiteboard? :)
16:06<cq_>indigo: I travel a lot, its not quite portable enough :)
16:06<indigo>pocket notepad, then.
16:07<dragos>i do now?...
16:07<cq_>indigo: thats probably the idea with the least investment and headaches...
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16:08<dragos>probably not ok this firmware
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16:11<ghost->trying to get ipv6 to point to a sub-domain(the reverse already works), any idea what I should do?
16:11<FragByte>dragos: thats possible
16:12<dragos> to do?
16:12<FragByte>dragos: pls post the output of 'lspci -nn' to pastebin
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16:13<FragByte>dragos: that shows us what hardware your machine contains
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16:13<ghost->Does anyone have a good website that can walkthrough for ipv6/ipv4/domains...
16:13<ghost->without using bind9
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16:15<dragos>Broadcom Corporation BCM4313 802.11b/g/n Wireless LAN Controller what is this?
16:16-!-zigo-_- [~quassel@] has joined #debian
16:16<indigo>dragos: uh, a Wireless LAN Controller made by Broadcom Corporation?
16:16<FragByte>dragos: thats a wifi chipset from broadcom, common im macbooks i think
16:17<movl>and HP laptops
16:17<dragos>i have hp 4520s
16:17<FragByte>dragos: also you left out '-nn', but thats important as it gets us the pciid of the device
16:17<dragos>but adapter is ralink
16:18<movl>dragos: isn't that your wired LAN adapter?
16:18<FragByte>dragos: just to make sure: are we talking about the wifi _inside_ your laptop, or are you plugging an external wifi device to it via usb for example ?
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16:18<dragos>is internal
16:18<dragos>is a combo device wifi and bluethoot
16:19<movl>you have realtek wired lan
16:19<movl>and broadcom wi-fi
16:19<movl>so where does ralink fit?
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16:20<dragos>ralink is...because write on wifi ralink rt9030...
16:20<FragByte>dragos: bluetooth is connected via usb as you can see in your dmesg output: it is driven by the 'btusb' kernel module
16:20<dragos>and in windows this is driver ralink
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16:20<dragos>noo...bluetooth is incorpored..
16:21<FragByte>dragos: it may be on the same board _physically_ (Dell often builds this) but it has no connection to your wifi
16:21<FragByte>dragos: I will try to find out what I can about you wifi device, stand by
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16:22<ghost->Does nobody understand my question?
16:22<movl>FragByte: he might be right: many HP laptops have these combos
16:22<movl>I'm typing from one myself right now
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16:24<FragByte>movl: he may be totally right, I have a Dell that has such a device built into it, a single board that has pcie wifi and usb bluetooth
16:25<dragos>this is
16:25-!-janos_ [~janos@] has joined #debian
16:25<movl>:) I don'y know much about Dells, but since his is a HP...
16:25<movl>dragos: you in Australia?
16:26<dragos>in Romania
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16:27<dragos>wireless/bluethoot button is yellow...
16:28<dragos>in wifi mod this is white
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16:28<movl>dragos: doesn't it have a wi-fi switch?
16:29<FragByte>dragos: brcm80211 and recent versions of b43 should be able to handle your device, however, says, that in debian stable your device is handled by brcm80211 only
16:29<nsadmin>dragos, so do you have wired net connected to your box at the moment?
16:29<dragos>wifi switch is a button like...restart
16:29<dragos>with one led....
16:29<dragos>yellow and white
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16:30<dragos>nsadmin yes...i have a wired connection
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16:30<FragByte>dragos: as brcm80211 clearly fails in your case, you might give b43 a shot following the steps in the link above
16:30<nsadmin>great... any progress on the wireless?
16:31<dragos>because no enabled...
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16:31<nsadmin>also, could you do... aptitude install libapp-nopaste-perl
16:31<dragos>button not working..../led is yellow
16:31<movl>dragos: check your BIOS as well
16:32<dragos>in windows working
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16:32<dragos>problem is not the bios settings...
16:32<nsadmin>so it's probably enabled in the bios?
16:32<movl>I understand
16:32<dragos>i not have this settings...
16:32<dragos>is only on...
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16:33<FragByte>movl, nsadmin: his computer freezes when brcm80211 and the correct firmware are loaded
16:33<dragos>so...aptitude install libapp-nopaste-perl
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16:33<nsadmin>yes, so you can have a pastebin piper
16:34<vook>How much disk space is used by a hardlink ? I ask because I'm using an rsnapshot system with approx 15 snapshots, each containing approx 3.1 million hardlinks (47 million hard links total).
16:34<nsadmin>and once you have that installed, could you do... lspci -nn | nopaste
16:35<nsadmin>it should hand you a address
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16:35<dragos>App::Nopaste::Service::Pastie: No form defined at /usr/share/perl5/App/Nopaste/Service/ line 13
16:36<FragByte>nsadmin: he already pasted it
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16:36<dragos>fuck this laptop X(
16:36-!-ukine [~ukine@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:37*nsadmin shudders... is about to crash my browser yet again... ads... capchas... blah.
16:38<retrospectacus> :)
16:38<retrospectacus>need an auto-url-rewrite bot trigger for that site
16:39<nsadmin>, pciid 14e4:4727
16:39<judd>[14e4:4727] is 'BCM4313 802.11b/g/n Wireless LAN Controller' from 'Broadcom Corporation' with kernel module 'brcm80211' in squeeze. See also and the out-of-tree 'wl' module.
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16:41<FragByte>dragos: pls paste the output of lsmod
16:42<FragByte>dragos: apparently there seems to be a problem with that chip freezing on address retrieval when acer_wmi is loaded
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16:46<dragos>this is lsmod
16:46<ghost->I'm trying to get ipv6 to point to a sub-domain(the reverse already works), any idea what I should do?
16:47<brad>ghost-, add AAAA records
16:47<ghost->and how would I fix the AAA record?
16:48<ghost->A->AAAA that is.
16:48-!-salvin_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:48<brad>A records are for v4, AAAA = v6
16:48-!-hele [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
16:49<brad>should be an option in your dns panel
16:49<ghost->I'm able to use the v6 address, but the v6 doesn't have reverse dns
16:49-!-zigo-_- [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:49<ghost->I don't have a dns panel
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16:49<brad>well, your host or datacenter should be able to set the reverse dns for you
16:49<retrospectacus>ghost-: rDNS is the responsibility of the hosting provider/ISP, open a ticket with them
16:49<brad>though many allow you to do it yourself
16:50-!-mode/#debian [+l 528] by debhelper
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16:50<ghost->well is there a way I can do it?
16:50-!-scientes [] has joined #debian
16:50<brad>Better to open a ticket to your host
16:51<ghost->ok I'll paste a log to show you the config and routes if that matters.
16:51<FragByte>dragos: well, your symptoms are the same but you dont have that module loaded and a quick check on some other vendor-specific modules didnt get an results
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16:51<FragByte>dragos: but you could try to install the proprietary driver as described here
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16:52<movl>broadcom has always been a pain in the ass
16:52<FragByte>dragos: that is the non-free alternative to brcm80211 and is not unlikely to work (not my experience, was just reading up on it)
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16:53<Heiserhorn>hi I am installing squeeze in a qnap, I have 4 disks and I would like to have raid5, could you tell me how to do the partitioning during the installer
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16:54<dragos>I will try. thanks for help
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16:54<brad>Heiserhorn, do you have a raid card?
16:54<dragos>thanks movl and FragByte
16:54<movl>dragos: I have a 4312
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16:54<movl>and it worked with the nonfree driver
16:55<movl>Broadcom 4312 wi-fi chipset, yours is 4313
16:55<Heiserhorn>brad: yes
16:55<FragByte>dragos: movl tries to raise your motivation a little ;)
16:55<dragos>and...and try 4312 driver?
16:55<movl>Romanians should stick for one another :P
16:56<FragByte>dragos: just follow the steps on that wiki page
16:56<movl>no, I was just saying that you have chances
16:56<FragByte>dragos: its the same driver
16:56<dragos>i understand...:)
16:57<ghost->you cant guide me to fix this?
16:57<dragos>and you work?
16:58<ghost->ip -6 addr show reveals one multicast addy
16:58<nsadmin>I do too; it can be frustrating not knowing which solution will actually work when the paths you've tried so far have failed
16:58<ghost->2: eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qlen 1000 inet6 fe80::216:3eff:fe38:e0a9/64 scope link valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
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17:03<retrospectacus>ghost-: rDNS is the responsibility of the hosting provider/ISP, it is not managed by the box itself. The query does not go there
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17:08<FragByte>dragos_: at last ;)
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17:09<dragos_>fuck windowsss
17:09<dragos_>debian rullllllllllzzzzz
17:09<FragByte>dragos_: np, have fun exploring your new debian wireless
17:09<dragos_>ohh yeaa
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17:10<dragos_>thanks greatly
17:10<dragos_>have a nice day
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17:14<ghost->can someone help me?
17:15<ghost->I need to just figure out how to get the ipv6 address to resolve to the domain, the reverse already works.
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17:16<retrospectacus>ghost-: talk to the owner of the IPv6 address range, i.e. the ISP !!!
17:16-!-zimme [] has joined #debian
17:17<ghost->what if I said I was the provider?
17:18<chrismay>How do I get pdo_oci showing up here? Did a wheezy update today.
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17:20<retrospectacus>ghost-: then you assign the rdns record in the zone
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17:25<joeoshawa>is anyone in here also in the debian-next room?
17:26<joeoshawa>or can anyone help me fix a screen problem with xorg.conf so i can get my nvidia driver working
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17:27<retrospectacus>ghost-: you assign the PTR record in the zone, would be more correct I think
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17:29<ghost->where is that exactly?
17:29<ghost-> /etc/network/interfaces
17:29<rfictus>syntax to run a port scan in term. ?
17:30<rfictus>ghost- type 'cd /' in terminal
17:30<ghost->iface eth0 inet6 static
17:30-!-jkf [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:31<rfictus>then cd to the directree
17:31<ghost->bind is not on the system
17:31-!-marco_craveiro [] has quit [Quit: marco_craveiro]
17:31<ghost->should I apt get bind, or can we do a manual way
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17:33<ghost->rammstein rocks :)
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17:34<rfictus>ghost- what are you trying to do ?
17:35<ghost->domain already resolves to the ipv6 address, except the reverse doesnt.
17:36<chrismay>pecl package creates a "broken" .tgz archive file?
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17:37<retrospectacus>rfictus: nmap
17:37<rfictus>just nmap ??
17:37<chrismay>it obviously does:
17:38<retrospectacus>rfictus: no
17:38<rfictus>i wanna see which are open right now
17:38<rfictus>and commuincating
17:38<retrospectacus>rfictus: on the localhost? netstat
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17:39<chrismay>that seems like a serious bug to me
17:40<chrismay>sid is evil
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17:40<retrospectacus>!tell chrismay about pieces
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17:42<joeoshawa> can anyone tell me why it
17:42<joeoshawa>its telling me it can't find any screens
17:43<retrospectacus>joeoshawa: paste Xorg.0.log
17:43<movl>joeoshawa: and lsmod
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17:44<chrismay>joeoshawa: did you load the nvidia drivers directly from the nvidia website?
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17:44<chealer>!no screens found
17:44<dpkg>no screens found is probably not a useful message - it means X11 has a problem somewhere with something. Read your /var/log/Xorg.0.log more closely, and look for the real error, which probably begins with (EE). See also <troubleshooting x>.
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17:46<chrismay>joeoshawa: I can only recommend it.
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17:46<FragByte>chrismay: do not recommend installing nvidia-drivers from their website !
17:46<FragByte>chrismay: it _will_ break
17:47<chrismay>FragByte: it will break anyway
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17:48<joeoshawa>the whole problem is that i updated wheezy and the new kernel is broken. The nvidia driver get's this same error but if i remove the xorg.conf then x starts but i have no keyboard or mouse
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17:49<joeoshawa>chrismay, installing the drivers from there website would only make a bad situation worse
17:49<chrismay>joeoshawa: is the problem has to do with the need for compiling nvidia modules, I disagree.
17:51<chrismay>after having compiled these modules for myself for years, until I bought two quadro cards, that is
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17:52<chrismay>nvidia has done a great job with these drivers, imho
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17:54<FragByte>joeoshawa: as stated above it would be pretty useful to have your xorg.0.log pasted somewhere
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17:56<FragByte>joeoshawa: do you want to use nouveau (the free drivers) or the proprietary nvidia driver ?
17:57<FragByte>joeoshawa: in the log you posted, xorg started with nouveau
17:57<joeoshawa>yes because if i try to load nvidia i can't start x
17:57<FragByte>you cant have both
17:57<joeoshawa>i realize that that is why i need to figure out my xorg.conf
17:58<FragByte>blacklist nouveau to get nvidia
17:58<joeoshawa>and if x doesn't start?
17:58<FragByte>joeoshawa: the only thing you should need in your xorg.conf is the Device section
17:58<joeoshawa>you need xorg.conf to call the nvidia driver it's in the how to
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17:59<joeoshawa>no xorg.conf no x
17:59<chrismay>joeoshawa: did the nvidia module load successfully? lsmod | grep nvidia ?
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17:59<joeoshawa>well x with neuvau
17:59<joeoshawa>or whatever
17:59<FragByte>joeoshawa: yes but you do not need the other stuff
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18:00<joeoshawa>i will try it
18:00<FragByte>joeoshawa: as i said, just keep the device section and drop everything else and blacklist nouveau, otherwise nvidia wont load
18:00<dpkg>VATTENE VIA!
18:02<joeoshawa>going to restart x thanks lets hope it works
18:02<FragByte>joeoshawa: gl
18:02<chealer>joeoshawa: we need the log for the X execution which fails
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18:05<chrismay>So pecl can't built packages. What do I do?
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18:09<chrismay>send in a patch or go home?
18:09<chrismay>sounds sensible
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18:10<dpkg>fausto: Debian è un sistema operativo composto di software libero non quella gratis. Vedi per sapere di più.
18:10<chrismay>but not very economical in regard to my skill set
18:12<chrismay>how about a workaround?
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18:23<joeoshawa>I need a command line irc chat program that is easy to use
18:24<FragByte>joeoshawa: weechat, irssi
18:24<retrospectacus>you need irssi
18:25<joeoshawa>the problem i am having with my nvidia is that it needs the new kernel so i figure first off get nvidia working
18:25<joeoshawa>ok thanks
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18:28<chrismay>I want to add, my system was unstable because of not having the newest nvidia drivers (with the two quardos back then). That's way I started using the nvidia drivers directly from the nvidia website. And it was and is a pleasant experience :)
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18:29<joe208>just using irssi
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18:31<chrismay>this could be the right patch for me
18:32<chrismay>a test with a backup can't hurt
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18:37<chrismay>it works, took me just a couple of hours to apply a patch
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18:45<joeoshawa>ok i am in command line i tried starting x with only the device section and it failed the only problem is how can i pastebin my log from the command line
18:46<FragByte>joeoshawa: pastebinit
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18:46<chrismay>did I mention that the official nvidia drivers also offer you to setup the xorg.conf file for you? :)
18:47<joeoshawa>chrismay: i did that
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18:47<retrospectacus>joeoshawa: apt-get install pastebinit && pastebinit -b /var/log/Xorg.0.log
18:47<joeoshawa>ok so can i drop to command line from irssi without closing it
18:47<chrismay>joeoshawa: and it's not working right away? shame on nvidia
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18:47<chrismay>joeoshawa: probably your problem isn't nvidia then
18:47<joeoshawa>chrismay: which is why i am getting help here
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18:48<retrospectacus>joeoshawa: you can switch TTYs or use screen
18:48<chrismay>joeoshawa: sorry if I'm annoying
18:48<joeoshawa>ok how do i do that
18:48<chrismay>joeoshawa: post your logs
18:49<joeoshawa>chrismay: your behind the times
18:49<FragByte>joeoshawa: to be clear, do you use the debian provided nvidia drivers and did you use the nvidia drivers from upstream previously
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18:49<retrospectacus>joeoshawa: Alt-Ctrl-F2 perhaps
18:49<chrismay>joeoshawa: that may very well possible, I was somewhere else and I shut up now, sorry
18:49<joeoshawa>i am using wheezy i used the debian drivers
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18:49<FragByte>joeoshawa: ok, got a bit confused
18:50<joeoshawa>i would use the debian-next room but nobody has been in there for weeks
18:50<abrotman>lots of people are there now
18:50<joeoshawa>i am there
18:50<joeoshawa>nobody has been responding
18:50<devil>joeoshawa: the channel is busy every day
18:50<FragByte>joeoshawa: yes, im on wheezy and not in there but we can take the discussion there if you want
18:50<joeoshawa>and i don't know how to switch back and forth really
18:50<abrotman>uhm, i see people responding to you
18:51<joeoshawa>ok how do i switch back
18:51<FragByte>you reach the windwos in irssi with alt+num
18:51*abrotman prefers ctrl-n/p
18:51<abrotman> or /win #
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18:52<FragByte>sorry if its the wrong keystroke, i remembered it being default
18:52<retrospectacus>I use alt-N but to each their own
18:52<abrotman>it is, but some systems use alt+# for other things
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18:54<joeoshawa>ok so first sudo aptitude pastebin i need to upload stuff to pastebin right?
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18:55<retrospectacus>joeoshawa: hmmm kinda close
18:55<retrospectacus>joeoshawa: apt-get install pastebinit && pastebinit -b /var/log/Xorg.0.log
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18:55<FragByte>joeoshawa: also, lets not spread the discussion over 2 channels pls ;)
18:55<retrospectacus>joeoshawa: please choose one channel and stick to it
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18:56<chrismay>nice tool, pastebinit
18:58<chrismay>did not know it, indeed :-)
18:58<chrismay>thank you anyway
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19:58<Guest849>Just trying XChat from the Xubuntu live CD, hence the nick ubuntu...sorry
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20:00<thedarkness>how to get the terminal to work
20:00<Guest849>Who's the op(s) here?
20:01<devil>thedarkness: can you be more elaborate?
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20:04<thedarkness>the terminal is not letting me use the commands just started using Linux
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20:04<devil>thedarkness: the commands?
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20:05<devil>thedarkness: it 2:00 am here. please be precise
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20:07<rfictus>thedarkness: please report error
20:07<abrotman>Guest849: why does it matter?
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20:09<Guest849>abrotman: no particular reason, just asking as a 1st time IRC user
20:09<abrotman>1st time user knows what ops are?
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20:09<Guest849>Yeah, I've been aware of IRC for years, just never used it before
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20:10<rfictus>what is ctrl alt F1 meant to display ??
20:10<nevyn>thedarkness: what command are you trying to use?
20:11<nevyn>rfictus: a virtual terminal (usually with getty running)
20:11-!-gnugr [~gnugr@] has joined #debian
20:11<rfictus>nevyn: I only get a black screen
20:11<rfictus>nevyn: how come ?
20:11<nevyn>press enter
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20:11<arthurblack>ctrl+alt+fX shows you different tty-s
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20:12<arthurblack>nevyn, yeah thanks
20:12<robbiethe1st>Note however that with some graphics drivers, it doesn't work well or at all.
20:12<rfictus>what is fx ??
20:12-!-andreas_b [] has quit [Quit: Lämnar]
20:12<nevyn>function X
20:12<rfictus>oh yes got it nm ;)
20:12<rfictus>except f7 right?
20:12<arthurblack>that incudes also a session of your desktop as its also vtty driven
20:12<nevyn>it's a vtty
20:12<rfictus>that shows desktop again ?
20:13<arthurblack>rfictus, its also vtty but there is a desktop running in it
20:13-!-thedarkness [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:13<rfictus>then where did my original desktop go ??
20:13-!-aranax [~aranax@] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
20:13<rfictus>how to get back to original desktop ?
20:13<nevyn>so this get's somewhat complicated. but X consumes a VTTY however you can't switch away from it. with ctrl left/right like you can with text based ones because X11 captures the ctrl so the kernel doesn't see it..
20:13<arthurblack>what do you mean by original?
20:13<nevyn>it's complicated
20:14<rfictus>but why am i getting a black screen on ctrl alt f1 ??
20:14<rfictus>well, f1 to f12, except f7
20:14<rfictus>f7 returns me back to desktop
20:14<arthurblack>rfictus, you dont get a login prompt?
20:14<robbiethe1st>what video card do you have?
20:15<rfictus>athurblack: no just a black screen
20:15<rfictus>got an nvidia
20:15<rfictus>GT 230M
20:15<nevyn>rfictus: which driver?
20:15<arthurblack>you might have issues with video card with this one as robbiethe1st mentioned
20:15<rfictus>don't know exactly
20:15<robbiethe1st>And the nvidia binary driver?
20:16<rfictus>how to check this ?
20:16<robbiethe1st>try running 'glxinfo' from a terminal window
20:16<robbiethe1st>it may need 'mesa-utils' installed(apt-get install mesa-utils as root)
20:17<rfictus>what do you like to know from the glxinfo results ?
20:17<rfictus>what are mesa-utils ?
20:17-!-rgms [] has joined #debian
20:17<rfictus>i'll look it up ;)
20:18<arthurblack>apt-cashe search mesa-utils
20:18<robbiethe1st>use glxinfo | grep OpenGL
20:18<robbiethe1st>look for OpenGL vendor string
20:18<arthurblack>mill guve you a short description
20:18<arthurblack>will give*' bleh
20:18<robbiethe1st>and openGL renderer stringf
20:19-!-kingsley [] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds]
20:19<rfictus>use command doesn't exist
20:19<robbiethe1st>... 'glxinfo | grep OpenGL'
20:19-!-rgms_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:19<rfictus>glxinfo | grep OpenGL
20:19<rfictus>wrong screen
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20:20<rfictus>OpenGL vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation
20:20<rfictus>OpenGL renderer string: GeForce GT 230M/PCI/SSE2
20:20<rfictus>OpenGL version string: 3.3.0 NVIDIA 280.13
20:20<rfictus>OpenGL shading language version string: 3.30 NVIDIA via Cg compiler
20:20<rfictus>OpenGL extensions:
20:20-!-rfictus was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use or /msg dpkg paste]
20:20<robbiethe1st>Ok, so he's got the Nvidia blob driver, 280.13.
20:20-!-realus_ [] has joined #debian
20:20<realus_>OpenGL vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation
20:20<realus_>OpenGL renderer string: GeForce GT 230M/PCI/SSE2
20:20<realus_>OpenGL version string: 3.3.0 NVIDIA 280.13
20:20<robbiethe1st>Ok, so he's got the Nvidia blob driver, 280.13.
20:21<ring0>blob = binary large object?
20:21<realus_>OpenGL shading language version string: 3.30 NVIDIA via Cg compiler
20:21<realus_>OpenGL extensions:
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20:21<nevyn>realus_: yeah. in free software land it's usually a disparaging reference to code for which we have no source
20:21<robbiethe1st>Yeah, basically. A blob of binary which no one(here) has access to the source of
20:21<nevyn>ring0: ^^
20:21<Guest849>OK, so no terminal output allowed here then? lol
20:21<realus_>so it's not an original driver??
20:22<robbiethe1st>No /long/ terminal output.
20:22<nevyn>realus_: it's the driver nvidia supply
20:22<nevyn>Guest849: pastebins are awesome.
20:22<robbiethe1st>4 lines or so, OK. 5+ in a second, not so much
20:22<ring0>nevyn, ok :)
20:23<Guest849>Makes sense!
20:23<nevyn>ring0: but most database people arn't fans of blobs either...
20:24<nevyn>they're essentially a way to store unstructured data in what is essentially a structured data storage system
20:24-!-gogo40 [~quassel@] has joined #debian
20:24<realus_>so how do I get my ttys to work ladz?
20:25<Guest849>Anyone know of a half-decent low-pro 16x PCIe gfx card for a PC with minimal expansion capabilty?
20:25-!-aidalgol [] has joined #debian
20:25<realus_>voodoo lol
20:26<arthurblack>maybe try to log in straight to tty from grub and see if it acts the same, just for a test
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20:26<realus_>bankrupt but worth a go
20:26<realus_>what is the grub ??
20:26<realus_>you mean during bootup ??
20:27<arthurblack>i really liked 3dfx interactive
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20:28<ring0>nevyn, a mysql longblob equals 4 gb, i just read. pretty big
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20:28<realus_>i played many games on the Voodoo II card
20:28<arthurblack>i think their voodoos were very decent gfx cards
20:28<realus_>got it as birthday present
20:28<arthurblack>same here
20:28<nevyn>ring0: right. but it's a 4gig lump
20:28<realus_>u got it as b'day present ??
20:29<arthurblack>nah, pretty sure it was for christmas
20:29<chrismay>Hi, well, never built debian packages and now I don't know what this actually means *eek :
20:29<nevyn>ring0: which you're now serialising and passing over the wire. eww.
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20:29<Guest849>Is a Radeon X1300 any good?
20:30<realus_>they had no fans then
20:30<realus_>but performed pretty well
20:30<arthurblack>realus_, dering boot up
20:30<realus_>yes arthur, i figured that much ;)
20:30<chrismay>sorry, that was only part of it:
20:31<realus_>I am able to get to that one ;)
20:31<nevyn>!any good
20:31<arthurblack>after bios screen you hold shift
20:31<realus_>the prompt terminal thing
20:31<arthurblack>assuming you are using grub bootloader
20:32<arthurblack>what do you mean?
20:32<realus_>that was the box:
20:33<realus_>I will try that tomorrow.. gonna hit the sack now
20:33<realus_>thx, and gud nite
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20:36<Guest849>Is it 'normal' to see no GRUB menu on a single OS system?
20:36<arthurblack>hold shift after the bios screen
20:37<Guest849>In the past I've been dual-booting Windoze/Ubuntu, but since I just have GRUB
20:38<arthurblack>yeah thats normal, grub automatically loads available os if there is only one by default
20:38<arthurblack>probably you can reconfigure grub to show the menu as default behaviour
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20:39<Guest849>And what about vmlinuz.old after kernel updates, should/can they be removed or not (to clean up GRUB menu)?
20:40<devil>Guest849: please be aware, that this is debian support, not ubuntu
20:41<Guest849>Strictly Debian Debian-based distro talk?
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20:41<arthurblack>devil, the question was about bootloader though
20:42<devil>there is so many derivatives, supporting them here is impossible
20:42<devil>arthurblack: and?
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20:44<chrismay>Where do we find the most recent information about debian packages for developer?
20:44<devil>arthurblack: please keep it in channel. unasked queries are not polite
20:44<chrismay>confronation is better done in private and humbly, that is the biblical way :)
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20:45<arthurblack>the question was about the bootloader thus not ubuntu specific
20:45<Guest849>No worries, I will go find ubuntu support elsewhere :)
20:46<Guest849>or GRUB support even :<
20:46<arthurblack>isnt grub debian's default bootloader?
20:46<Guest849>Yeah, Debian uses GRUB
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20:49<devil>it does not matter
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20:51<chrismay>if I would only know how this all works, isn't there a pill or something
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20:52<chrismay>it's called reading, verdammt
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21:02<chrismay> *eeek
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21:10<chrismay>php-pdo-oci.deb package that had to be removed after a wheezy upgrade today left me with the following message when entring php the following warning appears: PHP Warning: PHP Startup: Unable to load dynamic library '/usr/lib/php5/20100525/' - /usr/lib/php5/20100525/ cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory in Unknown on line 0
21:10<chrismay>how do I get rid of this message?
21:11<chrismay>the file '/usr/lib/php5/20100525/' doesn't exist anymore because the package had to be removed
21:11<chrismay>there seems to be a cache library of some sort?
21:12<chrismay>it's probably a good idea to have a "clean state" before trying to build and install the package anew?
21:12<chrismay>like so
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21:30<scientes>chrismay, check your php.ini
21:30<scientes>but obviosly that is a bug
21:30-!-clr [] has joined #debian
21:30<chrismay>added libclntsh 11.1 to /etc/dpkg/shlibs.override and now there is a deb package
21:30<scientes>chrismay, download the package and check the rules file
21:30<scientes>and other control files of the debian folder
21:31-!-arthurblack [~arthurbla@] has joined #debian
21:31<chrismay>there is no place to download it as far as I know, that why i'm building it
21:32-!-joeoshawa [] has joined #debian
21:32<chrismay>and i made the mistake of deleting the old built :-/
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21:33<chrismay>doing dpkg -i php5-pdo-oci_1.0.1-1_amd64.deb now and hope for the best
21:34<chrismay>looks promising, pdo_oci shows up with <?php print_r(get_loaded_extensions()) ?>
21:35<chealer>chrismay: see
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21:36<chrismay>phpunit database test do work!
21:37<chrismay>took me the whole day to get where i already was
21:37<chrismay>just because of an aptitude upgrade
21:37<chrismay>sid is evil
21:37<chrismay>chealer: looked at it, don't know what i see
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21:38<chrismay>chealer: looks similar though
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21:39<arthurblack>chrismay, this to why i prefer to compile php and its extensions from source
21:41<chrismay>arthurblack: the whole php5 source package? was using this; like the approach but i had to patch pecl with that:
21:42<chrismay>what did i learn? avoid sid like the plague if at all possible
21:43<chrismay>or have enough time on your hand (read money) to do none-profitable things
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21:45<chrismay>but i have to admit the idea to know the ins and outs of debian at a fundamental level appeals to me
21:45<chrismay>maybe some day, just maybe
21:46<chrismay>will certainly stick to debian
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21:46<arthurblack>chrismay, php5 only and than one by one all the extensions i need
21:47<chrismay>arthurblack: do you have a script for me? :)
21:47<chrismay>arthurblack: for the purpose of learning of course
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21:48<arthurblack>chrismay, yap...
21:49<arthurblack>chrismay, its pretty straight forward
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21:53<chrismay>arthurblack: that's about installing and configurating apache2 as far as i can see; a misunderstanding perhaps, i thought we were talking about building rebuilding php deb packages
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21:54<chrismay>normally you wouldn't want to do such thing anyway, it's because oracle isn't free i guess
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21:56<chrismay>nginx seems attractive to me :)
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21:57<chrismay>seems to be sufficient enough for my purposes at least
21:57<sney>nginx is pretty neat for standalone scripted applications like anything ruby
21:57<sney>but it's completely incompatible with a lot of more complex webapps that are written for lamp
21:58<chrismay>more complex webapps? starting almost from scatch here
21:58<scientes>sney, like?
21:58-!-ping [~ping@] has joined #debian
21:58<sney>stuff like drupal, etc
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21:58<scientes>most big web-apps are just fastcgi
21:58<sney>full CMS apps
21:58<scientes>and work fine with nginx
21:59<chrismay>not my turf
21:59<arthurblack>chrismay, there is a part about building php from source in there
21:59<sney>well, I confess to not really knowing how it is *now* but last time I tried, it was looking for a lot of htaccess stuff.
21:59*scientes is using nginx right now for production apps
21:59<chrismay>arthusblack: in the comments then
21:59<chrismay>arthusblack: oh, it's called contributed Notes
21:59*scientes is still wondering whether nginx or lighttpd will support NPN/SPDY first
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22:00<scientes>lighttpd is easier to set up for fastcgi in my experience
22:00<scientes>but if you use lighttpd's spawn-cgi its not that difficult with nginx
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22:02<sney>chrismay, also, sid isn't evil - don't use it for a server, of course, but if you have a spare computer and feel like playing around with the newest stuff (and don't mind if it breaks), it can be an enlightening experience
22:02<sney>as long as you promise to file any bugs you find
22:03<chrismay>sney: enlightening it is, fighting my fears :)
22:04<sney>it won't nuke your hardware. worst case scenario, your OS is toast and you have to reinstall. just don't keep anything important on it.
22:05<chrismay>it's time consuming, and i'm not financially established
22:05<sney>fair enough
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22:37<ping>can i have some suggest on any techincal IRC channel about C ,SHELL, or anyother techincal IRC channel,Thanks in advance..
22:37<sney>for shell scripting there's #bash
22:37-!-Radius [~quassel@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:37<sney>I think ##c is on freenode but don't quote me on that
22:37<ping>on this server?
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22:39<ping>is or
22:40-!-abdulkarim_ [~abdulkari@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:40<ping>it`s net
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22:43<joeoshawa>can someone do me a quick favor and try a youtube vid and full screen it and tell me if it all works fine or it won't go fullscreen i want to know if it is my flash player or youtube
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22:46<craigevil>joeoshawa, depends on the browser, and if you are using gnash or the latest version of Adobe Flash
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22:47<joeoshawa>latest adobe flash i just want to make sure it's not youtube it happened once before
22:49<joeoshawa>i messaged someone at youtube about it and they told me it was an issue on their end and it was fixed an hour later
22:49<joeoshawa>not sure this time
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23:08<houms>Can anyone help me troubleshoot nvidia issue? Following the debian wiki but not getting x to load
23:09<houms>Did a net install with task sel. Kde, which installed nouveau
23:09<houms>I removed nouveau and have tried the debian way and dkms and neither works
23:10<robbiethe1st>What does the xorg.0.log file say>
23:10<houms>Fatal server error no screens found
23:11<houms>Then it ref. Itself for additional info
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23:11<houms>Server terminated with error (1) closing light file
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23:21<houms>Found my problem. No xorg.conf.d
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23:25<chealer>!no screens found
23:25<dpkg>hmm... no screens found is not a useful message - it means X11 has a problem somewhere with something. Read your /var/log/Xorg.0.log more closely, and look for the real error, which probably begins with (EE). See also <troubleshooting x>.
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23:29<sney>chealer, how's life in the time warp
23:29<sney>houms, yeah, the nonfree driver won't autodetect.
23:31<houms>So xorg conf is necessary right?
23:32<houms>How bad is nouveau
23:32<sney>nouveau is essentially fine for anything newer than a geforce4 as long as you don't want 3d
23:33<scientes>sney, buy both kde and gnome3 use 3d by default
23:33<sney>they use compositing by default. 3d is sort of a different animal.
23:33<scientes>houms, nouveau is good, except REAL 3d
23:33<scientes>sney, ahh opengl is both
23:34<houms>But 3d like graphics or the modern day buzz 3d
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23:36<sney>3d like graphics
23:36<sney>nouveau supports direct rendering, it isn't vesa, so it's fine for window compositing and stuff like videos
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23:37<sney>but not even glx screensavers work. at least in squeeze.
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23:48<chealer>houms: you do need to tell X to use nvidia
23:49<poisoned>chealer, use nvidia-xconfig by root
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23:49<sney>I think he probably solved it about 20 minutes ago, guys
23:49<poisoned>if it does not exist - install with "aptitude install nvidia-xconfig", chealer
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23:50<poisoned>to houms
23:50*poisoned must change color scheme
23:50<houms>No worries
23:51<houms>Thanks for input anyway
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---Logclosed Thu Apr 19 00:00:32 2012