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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-04-19

---Logopened Thu Apr 19 00:00:32 2012
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00:21<scientes>anyone know of software that works on Synergetics coordinates (Isosceles Triangles) instead of cartesian coordinates?
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01:04<LesleyL>Curious question, has anyone here tried using Debian with an HP Slate 2? My team at work has just acquired one for after-hours support, and of course it has that other OS installed on it.
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01:09<ayaka>if udev don't full support my devices,but it can mount /dev prorerly,but it will stop my boot,is there anything can instead udev
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01:24<scientes>ayaka, there are boot parameters to turn certain things off
01:24<scientes>that you might want
01:25<scientes>ayaka, and look into udev rules, but udev is certainly the preferred way for device management
01:25<scientes>and MAKEDEV is pretty obsolete
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01:37<ayaka>scientes: but there is nothing in /etc/udev/rules.d
01:38<scientes>ayaka, all the system rules are in /usr/lib/udev/rules.d
01:38<scientes>or /lib/udev/rules.d (dont remember)
01:39<ayaka>scientes: I see, I will search it, thank you
01:39<ayaka>I think we should modify what dpkg(bot) said
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01:40<dpkg>udev is a /dev and hotplug management daemon, Linux 2.6's userspace equivalent of <DevFS>. Dependent upon a Linux kernel >= 2.6.27 as of Debian Squeeze. Ask me about <udev mac>, <udev squeeze>, <udev rules>, <udev details>, <.dev>, <dpin>, <blacklist.conf>. #udev on
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01:41<scientes>!udev rules
01:41<dpkg>file:///usr/share/doc/udev/writing_udev_rules/index.html (removed at udev v151), or read it online at
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01:42<scientes>seems fine to me aya
01:42<mick>I made a huge mistake and need help now
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01:42<MickLH>For some stupid reason, I decided to install KDE
01:43<MickLH>I've managed to escape that horrible hellshit, but now my gdm is broken
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01:43<MickLH>No users show up, no option to login as other
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01:44<MickLH>Also running gdmsetup, even as root, has a disabled UI complaining of being unauthorized
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01:45<MickLH>Where did this rumor of KDE getting better come from?
01:46<MickLH>It is clearly VERY much worse than last time I tried to use it.
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01:47<MickLH>Well I will just leave it at wanting to gruesomely slaughter the community that makes KDE available and hope I can decode the obfuscated mysteries of the display manager.
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01:51<scientes>i upgraded the upstream package, but reused the /debian directory
01:51<scientes>and now dpkg-buildpackage complains
01:51<scientes>what do i do?
01:52<scientes>or should i just use checkinstall?
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01:53<scientes>it refuses to do quilt without a upstream tarball
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02:44<bobweaver>I am so sorry about that I had too many virtual machines running and I comptuer died
02:44<bobweaver>I had to boot into other os because even after that mouse would not work ect
02:44<bobweaver>woops wrong channel
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02:58<scientes>how do i put my ssh keys in my keyring?
02:59<scientes>and where is my keyring file
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03:05<nevyn>scientes: agent?
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03:06<scientes>nevyn, well its at ~/.ssh/id_rsa ATM
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03:06<scientes>and i've heard that ssh can get the key from the keyring protocol, im using gnome
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03:08<nevyn>gnome keyring isn't involved in this.
03:08<nevyn>run ssh-add
03:08<nevyn>type your passphrase.
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03:08<scientes>i have seahorse
03:08<nevyn>ssh to your hearts content.
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03:08<scientes>nevyn, no i know i can do that
03:08<scientes>but i want to to use my login-password
03:08<scientes>like the rest of the keyring stuff
03:09<nevyn>so you want to store your ssh key passphrase in the keyring?
03:09<nevyn>that seems sensible.
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03:10<scientes>yeah, very sensible
03:11<scientes>or even have no ssh passphrase
03:11<nevyn>apparently if you do ssh-add then gnome-keyring intercepts using gnome-askpassphrase or ssomething
03:11<scientes>but thats a technical detail that isn't that big
03:11<nevyn>like there's a bit of gnome. that hooks the passphrase request
03:11<nevyn>and opens a gnome dialog
03:11<scientes>will ssh-add work with my existing ssh key?
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03:13<nevyn>x11 runs a ssh-agent always.
03:13<scientes>i only asked cause its called ssh-*add*
03:14<andrew>Hi. I have a dual boot machine with windows and I was wondering if there was an option in debian stable to "mount" the windows installation as a virtual machine with VMware or similar
03:14<scientes>wait, how do i reencrypt .ssh/id_rsa
03:14<nevyn>scientes: it's a tool to add a key to an agent
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03:14<nevyn>it's what it's labeled on the box.. no tricks
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03:15<scientes>how do i change the password?
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03:16<jm_>scientes: man ssh-keygen, look for -N
03:18<scientes>jm_, im not going to put the password in the command line, that rule 0
03:18<scientes>even if i am the only person using it, its jus bad practice
03:18<nevyn>scientes: -N prompts
03:18<scientes>bingo -p
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03:20<jm_>right should have mentioned -p and not -N
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03:26<hamid>Hello. is there any document for customizing debian installer ?
03:28<jm_>hamid: check the wiki
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03:32<hamid>jm_: thanks
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03:34<jm_>no worries
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03:52<scientes> Ken Thompson was once asked what he would do differently if he were redesigning the UNIX system. His reply: "I'd spell creat with an e." \
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03:53<scientes>when i came across this wart i certainly wondered the same thing
03:53<tom2bor>Hi, just try to create an offline debian installer (1 CD or DVD), which should contain debian packages from different official debian repositories like: squeeze main contrib; tp:// squeeze/updates main contrib; squeeze main) and one package from my local repository (reprepro). The installation should work automatically. What ist the best to
03:53<tom2bor>ol to use for my purpose?
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03:59<tom2bor>what the people from debian use, if they create the debian cd's DVD's?
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04:00<tom2bor>it is then difficult to just replace some packages from the official disribution?
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04:39<tom2bor>i took the official cd-1 debian and placed the preseed file in the main directory. If i wan't to install debian from the manipulated CDi bekome the error: "The CD in /dev/sr0 is not a DEbian CD!". Any help?
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04:47<poisoned>tom2bor, try to operate iso images
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04:53<ayaka>when will kernel mount /sys
04:53<jm_>tom2bor: did you add it with apt-cdrom?
04:53<tom2bor>i already mounten with 'mount -o loop /data/downloads/new/debian-6.0.4-amd64-CD-1.iso debian-6.0.4-64-CD1-iso'
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04:54<tom2bor>copied the context with: ''cp -a debian-6.0.4-64-CD1-iso/* debian-cd1-files/
04:54<tom2bor>and put the preseed.cfg file to main directory of the cd
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04:55<tom2bor>then created an iso image with 'mkisofs -D -r -V “$IMAGE_NAME” -cache-inodes -J -l -b isolinux/isolinux.bin -c isolinux/ -no-emul-boot -boot-load-size 4 -boot-info-table -o ../images/orc-install.iso .'
04:56<tom2bor>the cd is booting, i can start the installation, but then i see the 'incorrect cd-rom detected' message
04:57<SynrG>it's possible d-i knows the image has been tampered with and that's why it refuses. i don't know if d-i supports such remastering
04:57<SynrG>i thought the preseed just had to exist somewhere d-i could find it, not necessarily on the image
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04:58<SynrG>tbh, i have not studied the manual closely so i don't know conclusively, though
04:59<ayaka>if my root and /dev mounted. but /sys doesn't mount,what is up
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04:59<jm_>ayaka: /sys is mounted by user space via init system of choice normally
05:00<ayaka>jm_ so I should add it in fstab?
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05:01<jm_>ayaka: why? does the job
05:01<micove>tom2bor, did you regenerate the md5sum.txt file?
05:02<ayaka>jm_ if rsyslog has started,does it mean init work well?
05:02<jm_>ayaka: probably, you can enable bootlogd to see what happens
05:02<tom2bor>hi SynrG: you gave me yesterday the hint to use the jigd to create my own iso. is it possible to create own manipulated jigdo files?
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05:03<tom2bor>micove: no, i'm not
05:03<tom2bor>do I need to to id?
05:04<ayaka>jm_ do you mean the /var/log/dmesg ?
05:04<jm_>ayaka: no, /msg dpkg bootlogd
05:04<tom2bor>micove: do you know the best tool, or maybe command :-)
05:04<ayaka>jm_ thank you
05:05<jm_>ayaka: no problem
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05:07<ayaka>udevd[209]: unable to receive ctrl connection: Function not implemented, does it mean udev can't work,but I see /dev has been mounted
05:07<Waters>so does this mean everyone has linux on here?
05:07<tom2bor>micove: something like find + md5 will work?
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05:07<micove>tom2bor, mehh try something like from wherever the md5sum.txt of the cd is md5sum `find ! -name "md5sum.txt" ! -path "./isolinux/*" -follow -type f` > md5sum.txt
05:08<Waters>i wish i got this :/
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05:10<ayaka>thank you all
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05:12<tom2bor>oh, it do not work with the new created md5sum.txt :-(
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05:13<T_X>does anyone know whether the Debian Social Contract when it talks about source code only refers to code written in a turing complete language?
05:14<T_X>I'm currently wondering whether flam3 files under a CC-BY-NC license might violate Debian policies
05:15<@Ganneff>NC is not for debian main.
05:16<T_X>ok, thx. secondly, also packages which by default download NC content are not suitable for debian main, right?
05:16<@Ganneff>"requires stuff outside main for execution" -> contrib
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05:19<T_X>hm, is a package which is rendering (= compiling?) downloaded, NC licensed flam3 files and displaying of the results unsuitable for debian main?
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05:20<T_X>just for the context, I'm currently wondering about the legal status and Debian compliance of the electricsheep package
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05:20<T_X>and wanted to ask for some quick information here before contacting the maintainer if this package
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05:22<@Ganneff>does it do anything else?
05:22<@Ganneff>or is the sole and only way of it ever working to have these files?
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05:23<@Ganneff>and, are there free flam3 files somewhere?
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05:23<intore>hi, i can't authenticate with ldap user credential from my client, ldap server is on debian squeeze. using getent passwd i can see all the ldap users but i can't login with. coul you help me please?
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05:24<T_X>you can also download already rendered videos (which might not have an NC clause). you can disable the automatic downloading/rendering process, but it is not the default option
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05:24<T_X>also the license information for the flam3 files is only on the website, the manapages and copyright file do not mention those license restrictions
05:25<T_X>and the user interface does not mention them either before displaying
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05:26<@Ganneff>*might* be a bug, but i need to run now, meeting. best way would be to open a bug with the package and discuss there, or maybe -devel or -legal mailinglist. worst case,
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05:27<T_X>Ganeff: ok, thx for your input! I'll do
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05:32<SynrG>tom2bor: does help?
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05:38<tom2bor>I will check...
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05:39<tom2bor>thanks SynrG:
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05:42<intore>hi, i can't authenticate with ldap user credential from my client, ldap server is on debian squeeze. using getent passwd i can see all the ldap users but i can't login with. coul you help me please?
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06:39<sping123>hello! i have a fresh minimal x86 debian testing installation in front of me and would like to install package xen-linux-system-686-pae. running "aptitude -P install xen-linux-system-686-pae" shows conflicts, proposes to keep two packages at the current version and then doesn't install anything new when i accept that solution. what are my options now?
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06:41<jm_>you forgot to mention which debian release you're using
06:42<sping123>testing, wheezy
06:43<jm_>so probably saying to keep packages at existing version is not the right solution and you need to say N
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06:50<sping123>sorry, my chat machine rebooted due to overheating
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06:51<sping123>on the debian box i have replace the mirror from previous <> to <> and aptitude now installs xen-... just fine. where can i report a problem with that specific mirror?
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06:52<sping123>as switching the mirror solved the problem, i assume that's the cause
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07:13<daemonkeeper>sping123: #debian-mirrors or via mail as indicated on
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07:14<daemonkeeper>For a particular mirror, the local admin might thank you for a hint, too.
07:15<ayaka>If i cat some binary file making tty messed,how to fix it
07:16<anbe>ayaka, reset
07:16<anbe>not the button, but the command
07:16<ayaka>anbe just type it in tty?
07:17<anbe>yup, even if you can't read what you type
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07:18<salvin>what is the web development environment for KDE?
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07:21<salvin>nevyn: for KDE...
07:22<salvin>i can't find the web applications plugin for them
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07:26<ayaka>anbe thank you
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07:41<ayaka>i install lxde-core but i don't see /etc/init.d/lxde,how to start it
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07:44<jm_>ayaka: a display manager file would be there, lxde doesn't seem to have one so use whichever you prefer
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07:46<ayaka>jm_ like gdm,but it cost too much space, is there anyone lighter,so I can don't use display manager
07:46<dpkg>SLiM (Simple Login Manager) is a <display manager> based on
07:47<jm_>ayaka: or wdm
07:47<jm_>apt-cache search display manager
07:47<ayaka>thank you
07:48<jm_>probably better to find what provides x-display-manager
07:48<ayaka>in my memery,without it,you just can't login in gui way,can i start lxde by hand?
07:48<jm_>you have my permission
07:48<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, startx is a script that starts the X Window System, configure X before starting it. If the rest of X seems present, try getting xbase-clients. See <starting gnome>, or the way god intended X to be started. Issue 'startx <command> <xclient-options> -- <server> <xserver-options>' to specify specific client to start. Session will exit when that client exits. See also <xwrapper.config>.
07:49<jm_>$ aptfl lxsession
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07:49<jm_>lxsession: /usr/bin/lxsession
07:49<jm_>ayaka: ^^^^^^
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07:50<ayaka>thank you very much
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08:11<ayaka>what is xserver-xorg-core used for,what is different between xserver
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08:15<babilen>ayaka: Xorg has been split into a number of packages that all start with xserver- -- xorg is just a metapackage that pulls in the lot
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08:16<ayaka>then,I only want to use lxde,do i need the others xserver package
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08:19<babilen>ayaka: The X server sits below any desktop environment so you need it even if you switch from Gnome to, say, LXDE
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08:22<ayaka>babilen don't understand,I don't have any desktop enviroment before,I just xorg-core by hand
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08:23<babilen>ayaka: I have no idea what you mean by "I just xorg-core by hand" and you always use at least a window manager with Xorg
08:24<ayaka>babilen I don't install any X package before,I just installed xserver-xorg-core and lxde-core
08:26<babilen>xserver-xorg-core *is* an X package -- You might want to read its description with "apt-cache show xserver-xorg-core" -- You can see all xserver packages that you have installed by running "aptitude search '~i~n^xserver'" -- Most will have been pulled in as dependencies of either xserver-xorg-core or lxde-xore
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08:28<ayaka>babilen I see,so what I do is enough?
08:28<babilen>Enough for what?
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08:29<babilen>Guest919: Do you have a Debian related question we can help you with?
08:29<movl>the depeche mode album? :P
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08:29<ayaka>babilen enoght to startx and use lxde
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08:31<babilen>I would still recommend to install the lxde metapackage which will pull in other components that are typically used with LXDE
08:31<babilen>,depends lxde
08:31<judd>Package lxde in squeeze/i386 -- depends: lxde-core (>= 0.5.0-4), lxappearance (>= 0.4.0), lxinput (>= 0.1.1), lxsession-edit, lxshortcut, gpicview (>= 0.1.9), lxterminal, leafpad, xarchiver, lxrandr, obconf, lxde-icon-theme.
08:31<babilen>i.e. those ^^^^
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08:34<dampf>Люди кто может помочь grub2 пропизался в efiboot как его снети от туда&
08:34<dpkg>Это английскоговорящий канал, пожалуйста, говорите по-английски или посетите #debian-russian (Russian speakers please go to #debian-russian)
08:35<ayaka>babilen but the meta bring too much package,I want to save sdcard life
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08:36<jm_>probably grub-efi-foo then
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08:36<babilen>ayaka: Sure, then don't install it.
08:37<ayaka>babilen thank you
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08:40<ayaka>what is different between x11 and xserver
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08:41<ayaka>I know x11is a version of X,but what is different in debian package
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08:55<ayaka>ok,next question,is there some file like sysctl.conf to config /sys
08:55<abrotman>did you look for one?
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08:56<abrotman>stop being so lazy
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08:57<ayaka>abrotman why,I have searched it in google
08:57<abrotman>and where did it tell you that file would be?
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08:58<ayaka>no match result,it only tell me /proc/sys
08:58<movl>hard to believe
08:59<abrotman>ayaka: you've done something wrong .. try again
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09:01<ayaka>abrotman shall I change a keyword
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09:05<hoshi411>i noticed that the "onboard" keyboard that is popular in ubuntu is not in the debian repositories. is that because there is a better one that debian users prefer?
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09:05<movl>hoshi411: is that on-screen keyboard?
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09:06<hoshi411>movl, never heard of on-screen
09:06<hoshi411>is that the name of the package debian uses?
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09:06<movl>I don't know, since I don't know what you're asking
09:06<hoshi411>onboard is the name of the on-screen keyboard that ubuntu uses
09:07<movl>I don't use Ubuntu
09:07<hoshi411>but it is not in the debian repositories... so i was wonderring what on-screen keyboard debian users use
09:07<movl>so I wouldn't know
09:07<hoshi411>i use open suse , ubuntu , mint and debian
09:07<abrotman>hoshi411: in which DE ?
09:08<abrotman>hoshi411: did you try 'apt-cache search on screen keyboard" or OSK ?
09:08<movl>GNOME, I would guess
09:08<hoshi411>abrotman: yes and that search gives me many options for keyboard but i like to go with peoples experience in general
09:09<hoshi411>i know that "onboard" from experience, is a good on-screen keyboard and really easy to configure
09:09<hoshi411>but sometimes different packages work better with different distros etc
09:09<abrotman>!tell hoshi411 about popcon
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09:10<hoshi411>im just looking for a recommendation since im trying o stick to debian packages for this box
09:10<hoshi411>abrotman: popcon huh?
09:10<hoshi411>ok, ill check it out. thanks
09:11<ayaka>well,I have read 4 pages google result,all is told me /proc/sys
09:12<movl>ayaka: what is the search term?
09:12<ayaka>sysctl.conf /sys
09:12<abrotman>just let him keep going .. he'll figure it out eventually
09:13<movl>and learn a lot in the process
09:13<ayaka>so it means the term is right?
09:13<abrotman>you tell us
09:14<movl>don't get used to people helping you out
09:14<dpkg>"Give a man a fish and you'll feed him a day. Teach him how to fish and he'll feed himself for the rest of his life." This is so appropriate. Instead of asking us to tell you exactly what to do, ask us which documentation to read, read them, then come back and ask specific questions which aren't covered.
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09:15<ayaka>I have been teached it, but I really don't how to write keyword in english(ok it is offtopic)
09:15<hoshi411>anyone else have a recommended onscreen keyboard for debian users?
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09:16<blast007>hoshi411: did you read the message that dpkg sent to you about popcon?
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09:17<hoshi411>blast007, yes i did. popcon sounds unrelated to my question
09:18<abrotman>not really ... the most installed might be the highest recommended
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09:21<hoshi411>i guess i expected that kind of answer in this channel... but that's how it is i guess
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09:29<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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10:38<Maulkin>um, hi
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10:57<ayaka>ok,next question,is there some file like sysctl.conf to config /sys
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10:58<movl>ayaka: don't be lazy and don't repeat your questions before doing your homework
10:59<ayaka>movl I have searched so long,that is why I re-ask
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11:00<movl>what have you searched exactly?
11:01<ayaka>movl sysctl.conf for /sys or /sysfs, config file for /sysfs ,/sys config file
11:01<ayaka>I got something about redhat
11:02<movl>you were told already to change your search keywords until you get what you search for
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11:02<ayaka>movl yes,but i don't know any key i can use
11:03<movl>try harder
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11:03<movl>don't expect people to hold your hand
11:03<ayaka>at least, please teach me how to fish
11:04<movl>I did; use google to fish your information
11:04<joeoshawa>my computer goes into suspend while i am watching videos in my browser is there any way to prevent that behavior?
11:05<melmothX>joeoshawa: vlc, I guess
11:05<movl>yes, vlc does what you want
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11:05<ayaka>movl I think I can't know,it,thank you anyway
11:06<movl>ayaka: yes you can
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11:06<joeoshawa>thanks ... so there is no way to stop it when the browser is open for things i can't watch in vlc
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11:07<joeoshawa>other then turning off suspend?
11:07<movl>joeoshawa: there is
11:07<melmothX>joeoshawa: but the monitor suspends or the whole machine?
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11:07<movl>turn off dpms
11:07<movl>man xset
11:07<movl>or check your DE's settings
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11:08<melmothX>xset dpms 0 0 0 ; xset s off
11:08<melmothX>this should do what you want
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11:09<joeoshawa>yeah i am pretty sure it's just the monitor cause the sound still comes through
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11:11<movl>ayaka: this is what you get when you forget about the manual pages--and that's a hint right there
11:12<ayaka>movl thank you
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11:17<ayaka>no in man page, i try sys(tab) and readed all
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11:18<movl>it is in the manpage
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11:19<abrotman>you did not read all
11:19<ayaka>sysfs is for c , sysctl sysctl.conf is for porc ,sysconf and sysinfo is also for c lib
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11:20<movl>btw, porc in romanian means pig
11:20<movl>so nice typo :P
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11:21<ayaka>and others are c functions too,except syscalls
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11:26<Dmitry>DimitryKakadu, St Petersburg?
11:27<ayaka>Dmitry do you speak english
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11:28<lw>i am chinise
11:28<ayaka>lw me too
11:29<ayaka>lw do you mean chinese?
11:29<ayaka>lw don't speak chinese
11:29<abrotman>this is an english channel
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11:29<dpkg>如果您想得到中文的帮助,请您移步本服务器上的#debian-zh频道,进入方式是在您现在输入文字的输入框中输入"/join #debian-zh" (不含引号),谢谢您的合作如果您想要得到中文的協助,請加入伺服器上的 #debian-zh ( 頻道,加入方法為在輸入框中輸入 "/server" 和 "/join #debian-zh" (不要加引號),謝謝您的合作!
11:29<movl>or private
11:29<lw>I am sorry
11:29<joeoshawa>je suis parle englais et petit francais je suis canadienne
11:30<joeoshawa>au revoir mon ami
11:30<abrotman>joeoshawa: english .. please
11:30<movl>et tu parle francais horriblement :P
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11:30<ayaka>abrotman movl i fina understand i don't install libsysfs2 so without sysfs.conf
11:30<ayaka>lw,let go to offtopic
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11:31<ayaka>lw or #debian-zh
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11:31<ayaka>abrotman movl thank you
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11:34<indigo>is there a way i can have a deb-src line for sid in sources.list, but use it only when explicitly requested?
11:35<jpinx>indigo: simplest way is to comment it out when not in use
11:35<movl>indigo: you are better off compiling sid software for stable
11:35<movl>when needed
11:35<indigo>movl: that's the idea.
11:35<indigo>movl: i just want the src line, so i can get the source packages and build them easily, when needed.
11:36<movl>if you don't otherwise use source packages, I guess it'd be ok
11:37<indigo>maybe i'm going about it the wrong way
11:37<indigo>i've had to do this a handful of times, and every time i look for the directions i get something different
11:37<indigo>this time i found, and it's instructions seem especially elegant
11:37<jpinx>indigo: what are you trying to do?
11:37<indigo>compile a package from unstable on stable
11:38<dpkg>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
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11:40<abrotman>indigo: you'd comment out the -src line when you don't want it
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11:44<indigo>what does "ssb" mean, anyway?
11:44<indigo>i always want to ask dpkg about it when i do this, but i can never remember what it is
11:44<abrotman>simple sid backport
11:44<dpkg>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
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11:49*indigo does a happy dance
11:49<indigo>that was perhaps the most painless solution to the hardest problem i've had in memory.
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11:50<indigo>you wouldn't believe how hard it is to implement a tape backup server in a VM.
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12:11<boOmbox>any one!!!?
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12:11<babilen>boOmbox: Just ask if you have a question. There are over 500 people in this channel and you would be quite unhappy if every single one of us greets you.
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12:12<pndemc_debain>can anyone point me in the right direction to a channel for hosting game servers?
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12:13<boOmbox>babilen, ok, i am sorry i just thought i am not in right place thanks and here it goes my question
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12:13<boOmbox>how can i delete packages in synaptic without removing another ones , like removing brasero wthout Gnome
12:14<babilen>boOmbox: That question is a bit hard to answer. Do you understand why Gnome is being removed when you remove brasero?
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12:15<boOmbox>babilen, dependencie stuff right? i used to use gentoo so i didint have such problem, i know it is a noob question and i have used debian alot and lways wanted to ask this question, maby using perge with apt??
12:16<babilen>Ok, I'll explain the situation to you as the best way to handle this "remove X and it deletes all of Gnome" problem depends on your needs and wishes.
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12:17<babilen>The reason this happens is that you installed gnome either during the initial installation or by installing the "gnome" metapackage. The only reason why brasero is installed is because there is a dependency chain between it and one of the gnome metapackages.
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12:18<boOmbox>yes i have installed gnome via synaptic, i hade lxde, so i guesse i installed the meta-package
12:18<babilen>If you remove brasero now *all* packages that depend on it have to be removed as well. This results in the complete removal of gnome as packages that have just been installed to satisfy a dependency will be removed automatically if no package depends on them anymore.
12:18<boOmbox>ok i understand
12:18<babilen>This doesn't mean that you can't remove brasero though, but there are different approaches.
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12:19<babilen>Do you just want a minimal gnome setup with some essential applications? Do you want to keep all applications (e.g. evolution) but only remove brasero?
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12:20<boOmbox>babilen, i need to remove brasero and evolution actually :D , these are the first things i need to do now
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12:20<babilen>One way is to mark *all* packages that have been installed to satisfy the "gnome" metapackage dependencies as manually installed. That approach is detailed in "/msg dpkg remove rhythmbox" -- I personally favour an approach in which I make sure that a minimal gnome session is installed and prefer to install *additional* software manually.
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12:21<boOmbox>babilen, yes i prefer the second approach as well
12:21<babilen>The latter approach would work by installing one of the "smaller" gnome metapackages and just removing everyhting else that you don't need right now. You can additionally mark packages as being manually installer by either running "aptitude unmarkauto PKG" or "aptitude install PKG"
12:21<babilen>!install gnome
12:21<dpkg>To install GNOME: install the 'gnome' package to install everything, 'gnome-desktop-environment' for GNOME as defined by upstream, 'gnome-core' for a bit less and 'gnome-session' for the basic components actually needed to run a GNOME session. You will need Xorg installed as well, ask me about <install x>.
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12:23<babilen>boOmbox: That ^^^ gives you an overview of our gnome metapackages. I would probably go with the "gnome-core" or "gnome-session" one (have a look with "apt-cache show gnome-{core,session}" and then running "aptitude unmarkauto for packages that you want to keep.
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12:23<babilen>You can then remove rhythmbox and evolution and always answer "NOOOOOO!!" if it still wants to remove packages you'd like to keep.
12:23<ayaka>udevd[209]: unable to receive ctrl connection: Function not implemented , can i use bootlogd to find out whatvis the problem
12:23<boOmbox>mmm ok babilen i guesse i got it :) thanks alot for the great support ;)
12:24<babilen>boOmbox: If you need further help let me know. You might want to paste output/errors/... to :)
12:24<boOmbox>babilen, ok i will if hade any problems, anyways ill be back and report ;)
12:25<babilen>Wonderful, see you later then! :)
12:25<boOmbox>ok bye :)
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12:35<indigo>does anyone ever stop to think for a moment how extremely useful [e]grep is?
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12:36<gear4>I tried to restart apache2, and I got this error: apache2: Syntax error on line 204 of /etc/apache2/apache2.conf: Could not open configuration file /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/php4.conf: No such file or directory
12:37<gear4>I disabled php4
12:37<gear4>wait, why I'm asking here .. this is ubuntu question
12:37<movl>good point
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12:39<OpenTokix>gear4: a2dismod php4 or mod_php4 or something along those lines. Check in /etc/apache2/mods-enabled
12:39<movl>indigo: good point
12:39<gear4>OpenTokix, tried that
12:39<gear4>doesn't work
12:39<OpenTokix>gear4: just remove the symlinks in /etc/apache2/mods-enabled
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12:42<indigo>is there a way to have apt install the dependencies for a given .deb?
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12:43<indigo>i should really just set up a local repository
12:44<babilen>indigo: Install .deb, run "apt-get install -f"
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12:48<tom2bor>i installed debian without network, so the eth0 is not configured. Now want to configure networking, what command should i use to auto configuration
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12:49<ayaka>if my udev is too new to kernel,can i downgrade it?
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12:50<abrotman>that shouldn't have happened unless you intentinoally did something bad
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12:52<ayaka>abrotman yep, i downgrade my kernerl for some reason,but will it cause more problem if downgrade udev
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12:54<ayaka>but how to sure which version is suited my kernel
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12:59<babilen>tom2bor: You might want to read and
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13:00<babilen>!tell tom2bor -about interfaces
13:00<babilen>tom2bor: The latter link discusses wifi which might not be relevant for now, but still ...
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13:02<ayaka>thank you all,good byte
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13:25<frigo>i think i have a problem, or maybe i just dont understand - synaptic dosnt update the shortcuts in the pannel when i update software
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13:29<retrospectacus>boOmbox: can we help you?
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13:31<boOmbox>retrospectacus, i was here not long ago, and talked to babilen about removing some packages without removing the hole gnome desktop, so i promosed to come back and report if i had a prob,
13:32<retrospectacus>yes, I remember... please go ahead with your problem
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13:33<retrospectacus>babilen is not your "designated helper" or anything
13:33<indigo>what's the difference between /dev/sg1 and /dev/nst0? sg_map says they are the same thing, but tgt refuses to export nst0 over iscsi, while sg1 is fine. mt works with either.
13:33<retrospectacus>and he left
13:34<indigo>or maybe i don't need to know about the difference if there's a way i can get a stable name that refers to what /dev/sg1 is now. There are some things in /dev/tape/by-id that refer to nst0, but like i said, tgt wants the sg device to work.
13:34<boOmbox>retrospectacus, o great, so i wanted to try somthing before what he told me, and i guesse it worked, i rebooted in TWM windows manager deleted averything about gnome (apt-get remove gnome*), rebooted, then installed gnome-session, and now i only have brasero and its ok :D , so i wanted to know if its wise to do what i did?
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13:35<retrospectacus>boOmbox: it's wise to read what apt-get is removing and if you see something you want to keep, install it again or choose not to remove it
13:35<psycho>Hi all :-)
13:36<retrospectacus>hi psycho
13:36<boOmbox>retrospectacus, i know he isin why should he be, i know the rules of irc, i used debian mint i i used to stay hours helping new commers, so i just wanted to say what i did, i might help someone one day ;) thanks for you anyway
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13:36<psycho>hi retrospectacus
13:37<psycho>someone speaking spanish here?
13:37<psycho>only english?
13:37<boOmbox>retrospectacus, yes i did, i read all the packages it removed, and iv been using the system for an our, all my old programes workes (apache, mysql, geanny, code blocks, xchat,....))
13:37<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
13:37<psycho>¡Thank! :D
13:38<retrospectacus>boOmbox: great :) feel free to hang around here and help people if you can
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13:39<boOmbox>retrospectacus, :D thanks for the support i will try my best :)
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13:43<boOmbox>see you later every one and thanks again
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15:19<Chiefy>hi guys
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15:19<retrospectacus>afternoon Chiefy
15:20<Chiefy>just a quick question guys, if i may
15:20<Chiefy>googled to no avail
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15:20<retrospectacus>Chiefy: please just ask, on one line.
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15:22<Chiefy>recent upgrade, the external usb mouse works, but the internal "SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad" stopped working (visible under xinput, lsmod etc etc)
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15:35<retrospectacus>Chiefy: if someone knows they will answer... feel free to add more details.
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15:35<Chiefy>ah no sorry - i wasnt poking, just i went idle and woke up bitchx
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15:50<ThaJaCkal>Hi there folkz! Anyone firmiliar to mdadm? I need some assistance for raid5 recovery :) all help is deeply appriciated :D
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16:00<john_d>I'm new to Linux and I'm a little bit concerned how Debian will treat my (rather old) SSD regarding IO writes, anyone have experience?
16:00<Sicelo>will treat it very well :)
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16:01<y123>me dan una mano?
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16:02<retrospectacus>y123: only in English
16:02<y123>can u help me?
16:03<retrospectacus>y123: I don't know yet
16:03<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
16:03<y123>is the first time that I use linux. how can I install some software?
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16:04<abrotman>which version of linux?>
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16:04<john_d>Sicelo alright, I'm not an expert in SSD technology either I just had heard that excessive small writes will eventually wear it out.
16:04<Nemoder>john_d: the only thing I can think that would thrash the disk much is if you run out of memory and it uses swap. also you might remove *locate packages so updatedb doesn't run all the time
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16:05<sauvin>Debian squeeze AMD64, ralink 5390 wifi (no drivers). Help!
16:05<dpkg>Ralink Technology Corp. is a wireless LAN chipset manufacturer. Drivers for many Ralink chipsets are present in mainline Linux kernels, ask me about <rt2x00>. For support of 802.11n devices, ask me about <rt2800>.
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16:06<sauvin>Not for the 5390, there isn't.
16:06<john_d>Nemoder I see, Like I said I'm new to Linux in general, I think I have at least 4 package managers, is this something I need to do for each one?
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16:07<dpkg>Experimental support for Ralink RT53xx PCI-E 802.11n devices (e.g. RT5390: PCI ID 1814:5390) was added to the rt2800pci driver at Linux 2.6.39 (CONFIG_RT2800PCI_RT53XX), enabled by default since Linux 3.0. Support of HP's RT5390 variant (PCI ID 1814:539f, found in the DM1-3000 and DM1Z-3000) was added at linux-2.6 3.0.0~rc4-1~experimental.1 (Debian bug #630960). Ask me about <rt2800pci>.
16:07<dpkg>Ralink 802.11n PCI chipsets (RT2760, RT2790, RT2860, RT2880, RT2890, RT3060, RT3062, RT3090, RT3091, RT3092, RT3390, RT3562, RT3592, RT5390) are supported by the rt2x00 project's rt2800pci driver, introduced in Linux 2.6.33. Firmware is required, ask me about <ralink firmware>.
16:07<Nemoder>john_d: 4 package managers in debian? if they all use dpkg as a backend then they share the same list of installed pacakges
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16:09<ThaJaCkal>So ther is life on this channel :P
16:09<ThaJaCkal>Anyone know anything about mdadm?
16:10<retrospectacus>ThaJaCkal: see !ask above..
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16:11<dpkg>mdadm is a tool for administering Linux multi-disk (MD) arrays. Debian mdadm FAQ:;a=blob_plain;f=debian/FAQ;hb=HEAD . Linux RAID mdadm FAQ: . See also <MD>.
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16:12<y123>However, in this case ... I have trouble installing things ...
16:12<y123>I'm way too used to windows
16:12<y123>and I download this vercion of Linux that looks pretty good for the production and editing of audio, video and image ...
16:12<y123>MuSiX if I remember ....
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16:13<sauvin>Where do you suppose I might find *firmware* for the rt5390!?
16:13<sauvin>My Windows install is already gone :sigh:
16:14<john_d>Nemoder I might have misunderstood what you first said :-) I searched my installed packages for *locate and didn't really come up with anything that seem to be dealing with indexed databases.
16:14<abrotman>!msg the bot
16:14<dpkg>Please have conversations with the bots in a private message as much as possible. Instead of using "!topic" or "!tell <your nick> about <topic>" in the channel, you can just "/msg dpkg topic". See <bot help> and to learn more and browse my factoids on-line at . If you're helping people, you can check that you have the right factoid before showing it to others.
16:14<Nemoder>john_d: it might not be installed by default, i think it's just locate, mlocate and dlocate
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16:15<Nemoder>and they aren't that bad, just runs once a day to index new filenames
16:16<john_d>Right, well I have neither installed
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16:16<Nemoder>and that's mostly a read operation so i'm not sure that would matter for SSD
16:16<FragByte>john_d Nemoder: i dont think that updatedb has any significant effect at all as it runs only once a day and just writes a single file, everything else is just a read
16:16<Nemoder>yeah, just thinking that
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16:16<Nemoder>but it's the only common app i could think of that causes heavy disk io on my machines
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16:17<ThaJaCkal>I hvae a problem with Mdadm version 1.2. I created a RAID-5 about 6 months ago with 5Disks, and expanded it 1 Month ago using "mdadm wiki". This worked out fine. I later found out that i had used all the disk (instead of just a partition, so /dev/sdd instead of /dev/sdd1, if that would be a correct way of describing it). Then at easter time i had some hardware change in my computer (changed a
16:17<ThaJaCkal>SATA controller to get room for some more disk at a later time), and combined with some power-outage my RAID went down, now i am stuck with all the family pictures gone down the drain.. Or am I? Help is appriciated :)
16:17<FragByte>yes, but its blazingly fast on ssds and reading is for free on them ;)
16:18<Nemoder>i dont believe you, send me an ssd so i can test it! :D
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16:18<ThaJaCkal>Was that any better retrospectacus?
16:18<john_d>Technically SSD could be something like a 2M rated USB stick couldn't it
16:19<FragByte>john_d: i think the defaults will treat your ssd just right
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16:19<Nemoder>ya, even when a lot of small writes are needed the filesystem generally queues it up pretty well
16:20<john_d>Thanks FragByte, that settles my concerns, I had heard some internet doomsayers preach that an OS install would wear out an SSD too quickly.
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16:23<retrospectacus>ThaJaCkal: much better. I'm afraid I can only help you ask good questions, I know nothing of mdadm
16:23<retrospectacus>ThaJaCkal: true to my name, I will say: BACKUPS, NOT RAID
16:23<retrospectacus>as I often do say here
16:24<LesleyL>ThajaCkal: can you run "cat /proc/mdstat" and pastebin the output?
16:24<ThaJaCkal>hehe :) I cannot backup all of my data, but from now on i will try an external device for my Family pics and accounting :(
16:25<ThaJaCkal>I'm quite new to this support stuff, can i send a mail to for some answers there too?
16:25<retrospectacus>ThaJaCkal: I disagree, if you'd used the mirror drive in the "backups" paradigm instead of the "raid" you would be fine :)
16:25<LesleyL>Stick with support one channel at a time, I suggest
16:26<ThaJaCkal>ok, i will :) alot of the same users?
16:26<ThaJaCkal>retrospectacus -> the problem is that the raid set is 12TB :(
16:26<ThaJaCkal>I've considered going towards RAID-6 but, i am still a noob for what it is worth
16:27<retrospectacus>well, no, the problem is that it's raid ;) Yes that is a BIG problem
16:27<ThaJaCkal>But hell yeah! I will be backuping if i get my stuff back that is :P
16:27<LesleyL>RAID 6 is definitely better for reliability, it can let you survive 2 disk failures
16:27*retrospectacus doesn't like raid :P
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16:27<FragByte>retrospectacus: pretty anti-raid ? :D
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16:28<rfictus>hi all, when I ran apt-get install aptitude, it installed 7 packages in total to have it run
16:28<kop>Trouble is, most people use raid as a substitute for backup. This is wrong.
16:28<ThaJaCkal>If shit hits the fan i will be going on to use HW raid controller instead.. the ironic thing is that i was putting that into my computer for the extra controller space :P
16:28<kop>rfictus: Are you sure you're running debian?
16:29<rfictus>i just did apt-get autoremove aptitude and it only removes one, what about the other 6 ??
16:29<rfictus>kop, yes ubuntu
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16:29<kop>!tell rfictus about ubuntu
16:29<ThaJaCkal>kop -> i dont.. i juse it for speed and practicality
16:29<kop>!tell rfictus about ubuntuirc
16:29<retrospectacus>!ubuntuirc rfictus
16:29<dpkg>rfictus: This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://
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16:30<kop>ThaJaCkal: Thing about hardware raid is that you have to have a spare compataible controller around in or you lose everything when the controller dies. Fine for enterprises, not so good for everyone else.
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16:31<ThaJaCkal>kop: My thought precisly..... That's why i jumped at the opportunity of testing mdadm
16:31<ThaJaCkal>It seemed like a gift from the heavens when i discovered it :P
16:31<ThaJaCkal>btw.. my first initial problem was 2 disks failing :P
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16:32<ThaJaCkal>or just going --Removed for some weird reason
16:32<kop>ThaJaCkal: smartmontools?
16:32<ThaJaCkal>is that standard or extra packade?
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16:32<LesleyL>Personally I prefer software RAID to hardware RAID, you can manage it from the OS and don't have to reboot to get into the controller BIOS
16:33<kop>ThaJaCkal: You need to install it (as with almost everything.)
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16:33<ThaJaCkal>is that gui or shell?
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16:34<ThaJaCkal>it was installed btw :D
16:34<kop>ThaJaCkal: You usually run it via cron, iirc.
16:34<kop>ThaJaCkal: That way you just get an email when something is starting to to bad.
16:34<ThaJaCkal>aha :)
16:35<FragByte>ThaJaCkal: in a terminal, as root: smartctl --all /dev/"YOUR DISK" will show you (almost) everything the disk nows about itself
16:35<ThaJaCkal>I belive the problem is that during one of the power outages the raid went to smitherines...
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16:35<kop>ThaJaCkal: I seem to remember it's a pain to setup the first time, mostly because the disk test vocabularly/process is just plain strange.
16:36<ThaJaCkal>Smartctl open device: /dev/sdb failed: AMCC/3ware controller, please try adding '-d 3ware,N',
16:36<ThaJaCkal>you may need to replace /dev/sdb with /dev/twlN, /dev/twaN or /dev/tweN
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16:37<kop>ThaJaCkal: Yah. There's a lot of "if you're running this sort of hardware be sure to turn that knob" sort of stuff in the man page. PC hardware sucks.
16:37<ThaJaCkal>I tried one disk that was on the motherboard.. nothing to fetch there :P
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16:39<ThaJaCkal>bu ti used the tool in gnome called Disk Utility (Where i first made the RAID btw).. wich says that one of the disks "Disk has a few bad sectors" but is still green
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16:40<ThaJaCkal>It looks to be okay and all of that atm. but i cant mount it.. just goes on and on that perhaps bad superblock or wrong format..
16:40<ThaJaCkal>should be ext4
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16:42<kop>ThaJaCkal: Well if it's raid (unless raid 1, I think) you can't mount it directly. You have to first assemble the array.
16:42<kop>ThaJaCkal: (IIRC ibm developerworks has a mdadm article. Could be wrong.)
16:43<ThaJaCkal>yeah.. i tried going back and forth on the internet, but ended up back where i was.. have been doing this for 8? days now.. getting desperate
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16:43<kop>ThaJaCkal: Well you could just read the mdadm man page. I seem to recall that being all it took.
16:44<ThaJaCkal>I read that the raid can be stopped, deleted and created again, so i did...
16:44<LesleyL>ThaJaCkal: If you lost 2 disks in a RAID 5, I'm sorry, but your data is screwed and can't be recovered. I have seen this before.
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16:46<ThaJaCkal>the werent lost as in dead.. just not in the raid, they have joined the crowd again, but i cant mount the device. Yet again i seeked google for help, even posted on the debian forums for help (deleted it now). I fear that they are assembled in the wrong order, that might be the problem i assume, but i dunno.
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16:47<ThaJaCkal>I feel like a total flop atm for loosing all my data. But yeah.,.. i would probably do it again, but with backup of all that mathers
16:47<retrospectacus>for a 12TB raid set it was presumably more than 3 disks. How many spares?
16:47<ThaJaCkal>I havent formatted any of the disks, so the data should still be good?
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16:47<ThaJaCkal>it was actually 7 disks
16:47<ThaJaCkal>Please do not ask me how many spares.. You wouldnt like the answer :P
16:47<retrospectacus>all 2TB with one spare? yeah .... what LesleyL said
16:48<FragByte>ThaJaCkal: If those 2 disks really failed, than i think you are screwed
16:48<retrospectacus>...nah, YOU don't like that answer :P
16:48<ThaJaCkal>Define Failed :P
16:49<kop>If he just unplugged them, he should be able to plug them back in because nothing would write to the other drives when the whole raid array failed. Or so it seems to me. (But it's not clear what did happen.)
16:49<FragByte>ThaJaCkal: every kind of hardware related failure, that prevents reading from or writing to the disk
16:50<ThaJaCkal>none of the disks where written to during this... the raid has been down since it happened
16:50<ThaJaCkal>could a resync f**** it up?
16:50<LesleyL>If your 'cat /proc/mdstat' shows [UUUUUUU] your RAID is okay. Every U that is replaced by an underscore, eg UUUUU_U shows a failed disk. What does yours show?
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16:51<ThaJaCkal>2 secs
16:51-!-milk [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:51<ThaJaCkal>it is 3 lines.. i cant paste that without beeing kicked?
16:52<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or for pics. Use for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>, <>.
16:53<dpkg> put your output on so we can see it. DO NOT paste into the channel.
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16:53<ThaJaCkal>That's the way of doing it?
16:53<ThaJaCkal>phew :P
16:54*LesleyL smiles
16:54<ThaJaCkal>They are all "U"
16:54<ThaJaCkal>i presume it means "U(p)"
16:54<LesleyL>Ok, the "resync=PENDING" means its not willing to do the resync yet, for some reason.
16:55<FragByte>ThaJaCkal: you might want to replace the disk with the bad sectors in the near future though
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16:55<LesleyL>Usually that's because these another resync running on the same spindle
16:55<LesleyL>That seems unlikely in this case so we need more info.
16:56<ThaJaCkal>when i created the raid again i used: mdadm --create --verbose /dev/md127 --level=5 --raid-devices=7 --spare-devices=0 --force /dev/sdd1 /dev/sde1 /dev/sdf1 /dev/sdg1 /dev/sdh1 /dev/sdb /dev/sdc
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16:56<LesleyL>Next, paste the output of "mdadm --detail /dev/md127"
16:56<ThaJaCkal>as you see, the 2 last disk are all disk, no parition as they where originally
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16:58<ThaJaCkal>I've read somewhere that the most important thing is that the disks need to be in the right order as they where created in the first raid
16:59<indigo>what could cause top and ps -le to show "-" for every process in the wchan column?
17:00-!-mode/#debian [+l 532] by debhelper
17:00<LesleyL>That's possibly true, but mdadm would sort out the sequence, it shouldn't matter what order you type them in
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17:00<ThaJaCkal>mdadm is quite genius.. thanks to its maker :) *kneel*
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17:01<LesleyL>The best suggestion I have is to remove and re-add each of the two disks in question. I'll pastebin the commands.
17:03<ThaJaCkal>And another thing... will Theese two "all in" disk show anything in Gparted? I've noticed that every partitioned disk do, but Gparted doesnt seem to find anything on these drives
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17:04<LesleyL>In that case you will need to redo the partion tables. Are the disks all identical?
17:04<ThaJaCkal>Same brand, RPM, Size etc...
17:04<LesleyL>Ok, I'll ad that step in the command list. :-)
17:04<ThaJaCkal>Havent checked the FW, but i dunno if that matthers?
17:05<ThaJaCkal>I wanna hug you so bad right now :P
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17:05*LesleyL laughs
17:05<LesleyL>I don't think we're going to get your data back, but at least we can fix the array
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17:06<LesleyL>Do you the "sfdisk" command?
17:06<ThaJaCkal>As long as i have hope man.. that is what counts :P
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17:06<LesleyL>s/the/have the/
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17:07<ThaJaCkal>Just gotta throw one out there off topic perhaps? Anyone here from norway? Just wondering...
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17:10<LesleyL>Okay, here's some comments and verbatim commands to fix sdb:
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17:13<ThaJaCkal>by /dev/dse you actually mean /dev/dse, or a disk i acutally have?
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17:14<LesleyL>Ooops, typo
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17:15<LesleyL>I'm pretty sure that's the only typo!
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17:17<ThaJaCkal>now to make them "not spare"
17:17<ThaJaCkal>when i run --detail they are now spare
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17:19<LesleyL>can you paste the new --detail?
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17:20<ThaJaCkal>here it is.. took one more disk out by a fault, but added before messing with it :)
17:20<ThaJaCkal>Hope that didn kill the mood
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17:21<rfictus>is there a flight simulator for ubuntu ?
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17:22<FragByte>rfictus, you should ask that in the ubuntu channel as stated above, we dont know what they have in their repositories
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17:23<LesleyL>Now we're getting beyond what I've experienced..... What does "cat /proc/mdstat" say now?
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17:25<ThaJaCkal>I could take down the array and --assemble again?
17:26<ThaJaCkal>but surely there must be a way to phase in a spare drive?
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17:27<LesleyL>Usually the the fail/remove/add process is the way to replace a failed drive.
17:27<LesleyL>The trouble is you lost 2 drives, and that's too much.
17:27<FragByte>ThaJaCkal, LesleyL: isnt the data gone already ? does that make sense anymore ?
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17:28<ThaJaCkal>Can it be couse mdadm doesnt see where the disk belong?
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17:28<ThaJaCkal>because 2 have failed?
17:29<LesleyL>I'm pretty sure the data is gone. All you can do now is drop the array and re-create it.
17:29<ThaJaCkal>yeah.. i fear so...
17:29<ThaJaCkal>If i create it as a RAID-6, will there be double fail system?
17:30-!-mode/#debian [+l 525] by debhelper
17:30<LesleyL>In raid5, when you lose 1 disk, you can recover, but 2 disks is a true disaster.
17:30<FragByte>ThaJaCkal: you should test your disks before recreating an array again, there must be a reason it failed in the first place and you mentioned that one disk has bad sectors already
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17:30<ThaJaCkal>What would you recommend FragByte?`
17:31<LesleyL>This was caused by a a power outage I believe?
17:31<ThaJaCkal>Is there a way to see how much data there is on each disk to see if there's actually any data left on them?
17:31<FragByte>test each disk separately with smartctl is good start
17:32<ThaJaCkal>But i would need to take down the array first?
17:32<ThaJaCkal>or just stop it?
17:32<LesleyL>smartctl -t long /dev/sdX on each one
17:32<FragByte>ThaJaCkal: yes, take it down, it is useless by now
17:32<ThaJaCkal>that tests the disk and not the partition?
17:33<LesleyL>Smartctl tests can be done on live disks in production but the present array is no use to you now so you might as well take it down.
17:33<ThaJaCkal>just answare this first: Is there a way to see how much data there is on each disk to see if there's actually any data left on them?
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17:34<ThaJaCkal>If they are like 80% full or something?
17:34<LesleyL>The "data" that is there is just nonsense now, because the files are spread across the disks.
17:34<ThaJaCkal>Or will they just be reported to be full due to the RAID partition?
17:34<FragByte>ThaJaCkal: as all data is sliced up and spread over several disks, there is just trash on your disks now that is unrecreatable
17:35<LesleyL>The disks themselves just hold bits and bytes. The filesytem is built on top of the array, and it only in the filesystem that %full has any meaning.
17:36<ThaJaCkal>ok.. I cave...
17:36<ThaJaCkal>just do: mdamd --stop /dev/md127 then?
17:37<ThaJaCkal>this time i will do it all in shell.. did something in GUI the last time, i fear that was my undoing
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17:37<ThaJaCkal>LesleyL: care to elaborate how to take down, and make a new raid that will boot the next time i startup?
17:37<FragByte>ThaJaCkal: i dont know your use case, but are you sure that a raid was the best choice for you in the first place ?
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17:39<ThaJaCkal>Let's just say that files ranging from a CD to lets say a Blu-Ray size.. isnt what i will call "important".. just a matter of unluckiness that i also had my pics there..
17:39<LesleyL>First: mdadm --zero-superblock /dev/sdd1 (for each component partition)
17:39<LesleyL>Then it's probably safe to use the gui to create the new array
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17:40<LesleyL>Wikipedia has a good page on RAID and what the different levels can do.
17:40<ThaJaCkal>the issue last time was i got an error when i tried to add the 2 last drives.. i guess it was root related
17:41<ThaJaCkal>LesleyL: i know all about the raid levels (exept 6).. but i was new to this linux raid stuff..
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17:41<ThaJaCkal>I've used Raid setups and JBOD for 11 years.. but this time i was willing to try this stuff :P
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17:43<kop>ThaJaCkal: In general, you don't need to take the disks offline to run smart on them. That's sort of the point.
17:43<ThaJaCkal> mdadm --zero-superblock /dev/sd[b-h]1 (Should work too yeah?)
17:43<LesleyL>Should do.
17:44<LesleyL>er, maybe not, I never tried it that way
17:44<LesleyL>I would use a "for" loop myself
17:45<ThaJaCkal>back to basics here.. Smartctl open device: /dev/sdb failed: AMCC/3ware controller, please try adding '-d 3ware,N',
17:45<ThaJaCkal>you may need to replace /dev/sdb with /dev/twlN, /dev/twaN or /dev/tweN
17:45<ThaJaCkal>can also run this in GUI i presume?
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17:47<LesleyL>try "smartctl -d 3ware,N -t long"
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17:48<LesleyL>make that "smartctl -d 3ware,N -a /dev/dsb"
17:48<ThaJaCkal>. /dev/sdb: Option -d 3ware,N requires N to be a non-negative integer
17:48<kop>LesleyL: dsb?
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17:49<LesleyL>Argh! stupid fat fingers! sdb of course
17:49*kop thinks there's nothing like reading the instructions
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17:49<LesleyL>man smartctl
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17:51<kop>Then "/3ware", repeat with "/" if necessary.
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17:54<LesleyL>3ware is a hardware RAID controller... usually such controllers prefer to do the SMART stuff themselves.
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17:55<ThaJaCkal>yeah.. belive so..
17:55<ThaJaCkal>Dont know what they mean by "non-negative integer"
17:56<ThaJaCkal>i was kinda thinking : smartctl -t long -d 3ware,N /dev/sdb
17:56<ThaJaCkal>but the error assumes "N" to be something...
17:56<LesleyL>It wants to know the port number. which is somewhere from 0 to 15.
17:56<kop>ThaJaCkal: The man page says what it wants.
17:58<ThaJaCkal>yeah.. but i was stuck if N was just "N" or "Something".. so thanks :) I found out :D
17:58<ThaJaCkal>does it say wich port in dmesg?
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17:59<FragByte>ThaJaCkal: FYI 'integers' are whole numbers like -1, 0, 1, 2, ... and so on
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17:59<ThaJaCkal>ahhhh :) Thanks a bundle.. as you might have found out by now, i'm not english :P
18:00<FragByte>me too ;)
18:00<ThaJaCkal>this test goes on automatic i see :P
18:00<ThaJaCkal>255 minutes til completed?
18:00<ThaJaCkal>i can run several disks at once, or will i smash something by doing this?
18:00<LesleyL>Normal for a long test, and yes, you can run them all at once
18:00<FragByte>ThaJaCkal: you can do that for every disk right now, but only one test per disk
18:01<ThaJaCkal>where can i find wich port the devices are connected to on the 3ware? or do i need to get bent and find a flashlight?
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18:03<LesleyL>It could be in dmesg, or in /var/log/kern.log. Read through the boot-up messages and look for "sd" (scsi disks)
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18:05<ThaJaCkal>by boot up message you mean dmesg, yeah?
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18:05<scientes>ThaJaCkal, /var/log/kern.log has the whole thing
18:06<scientes>is dmesg has scrolled too far
18:06<scientes>(its a circular buffer)
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18:07<ThaJaCkal>ok.. tried dmesg > dmesg.log
18:08<ThaJaCkal>is it better for the drives to be run as actual SATA drives or for the bios on the machine to run them as IDE? Any ideas?
18:08<scientes>ThaJaCkal, much better to run then in native AHCI (SATA)
18:09<ThaJaCkal>ok.. i see the machine goes UDMA/133
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18:13<ThaJaCkal>anyone able to tell from this?
18:13<ThaJaCkal>wheres my magical "N" :P
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18:15<ThaJaCkal>i give up.-- damn. But where can i fetch the logs from the 5 drives that are actually testing?
18:15<scientes>ThaJaCkal, what are you referring to?
18:16<ThaJaCkal>smartctl -t long /dev/sdh
18:16<LesleyL>Sorry, got distracted by work.... I'll look now
18:16<ThaJaCkal>where will the results post?
18:16<scientes>sexy array you got there ThaJaCkal
18:16<ThaJaCkal>this is a background test, so where will the results be posted?
18:16<ThaJaCkal>Dead array i will say
18:17<LesleyL>After the tests finish, the results are available in smartctl -a
18:17<FragByte>ThaJaCkal: smartctl --all will show it
18:17<ThaJaCkal>LesleyL helped me kill it (Ok.. i did the bloody part, he just helped me digg down the bodies)
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18:18*LesleyL laughs
18:18<LesleyL>By the way I'm a "she" :-)
18:19<ThaJaCkal>LesleyL helped me kill it (Ok.. i did the bloody part, she just helped me digg down the bodies)
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18:20<LesleyL>There are 12 ports according to the first line, so I guess the numbers would be 0=sda, 1=sdb, etc.
18:20<ThaJaCkal>I'll be back tomorrow.. Nighty night peepz! (the clock is 00:20 in norway)
18:21<LesleyL>Sleep well!
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18:21<ThaJaCkal>I hope you will help me tomorrow when all my faults will go away :P
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18:22<LesleyL>Tomorrow is Saturday here so I won't be at work, but will try to sign in as LesleyLurks for a while
18:23<pndemc_debain>I'm attempting to setup a tf2 server in debain running in virtualbox, but know nothing about networking, where can I learn how?
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18:24<FragByte>JaCkal|AW: That disk is broken, you should replace it
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18:25<hellodere>hey I got a question
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18:25<hellodere>I installed my printer drivers on squeeze and it worked well for a while, now nothing will print
18:26<hellodere>I have a printer on the network and its working fine, other machines have no issues
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18:26<LesleyL>JaCkal|AW: Are all your disks on the RAID controller?
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18:29<david_>If i was to ask about jailbreaking tools that work on debian, what would be my response?
18:29<retrospectacus>debian has no jails :)
18:29<hellodere>thats not tru
18:29<hellodere>chroot wut
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18:31<david_>I wish i could get debian to work on my computer, the wifi has been giving me trouble
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18:32<retrospectacus>david_: we can help you with that...
18:33<david_>pinky promise?
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18:34<retrospectacus>david_: s/help/probably help/
18:34<retrospectacus>david_: do you have debian installed yet?
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18:35<retrospectacus>david_: what is the make/model of your wireless chip?
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18:35<david_>not installed
18:35<david_>one sec ill get the chip
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18:37<david_>what command should i use to get the chip, i forgot
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18:38<retrospectacus>lspci -nn and tell us the line which is the wireless device
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18:40<david_>realtek semiconductor co. ltd. RTL8188CE 802.11 b/g/n wifi adaptor
18:41<retrospectacus>you can get that working but not during the install. You'll need ethernet
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18:42<JaCkal|AW>LesleyL: I got 5 disks on the motherboad (/dev/sdd beeing one of them) and sdb & sdc are on the 3ware (wich i do not think appreciates SMART that much)
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18:43<david_>is it because the stable version doesn't have the right kernal?
18:43<JaCkal|AW>This is because me MB controller contains 1 Seperate system disk (sda) and 5 mdadm disks. It only has 6 slots total (all beeing SATA). So the natural thing would be to put the rest of my expanding disks on the 3ware
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18:44<JaCkal|AW>LesleyL: If you answer my previous posts, please /msg so that i might read them tomorrow :) thanks for all your help!
18:44<hellodere>whats your problem with your wifi card son
18:44<retrospectacus>david_: yeah, stable installs 2.6.32 which is a problem I think
18:44<hellodere>does your card show up when u do iwconfig ?
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18:45<david_>umm yes
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18:52<david_>hey david
18:52<david__>hey david
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19:12<elkalel>Good evening! Tonight while trying to do an apt-get update I get an errpr message about a release file expired, no matter what mirror I try? This is happening on a fresh install. Does anyone have a solution to this problem? Thank you in advance.
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19:16<elkalel>On squeeze, I should add.
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19:18<abrotman>elkalel: use a pastebin please
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19:18<abrotman> works
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19:26<elkalel>abrotman:here's my source.list:
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19:33<green>how can i fix this video freezing problem i am having?
19:33<abrotman>start with which driver and which card?
19:33<abrotman>elkalel: aptitude update; aptitude install debian-archive-keyring
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19:39<abrotman>elkalel: no reason to msg me, keep it in the channel please
19:40<elkalel>abrotman: okay, sorry.
19:40<abrotman>elkalel: perhaps try another mirror
19:41<elkalel>abrotman: roger that. thanks for your time.
19:41<abrotman>elkalel: it's possible the mirror had a bad sync
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19:43<elkalel>abrotman: I see, I'll give Canada a try.
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19:50<abrotman>elkalel: work better?
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19:51<hoshi411>i cant find on google how to install a gsettings schema for a specific package
19:52<hoshi411>one of my installed packages which i compiled from source... keeps giving me the error that a gsettings schema was not found for it
19:52<hoshi411>i have gsettings-schema installed actually but the error is referring to the schema for a specific ackage
19:53<hoshi411>i have no idea what a gsettings schema is but if it is required for package to run, shouldnt it be included with the package or set up as a dependancy
19:54<hoshi411>my question though is referring to gsettings schemas in general
19:54<hoshi411>i would like to know how to get the gsettings schema for my specific package
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19:55<sney_>generally if you're building things from source, that information will be in the README that gets distributed with the source package
19:56<sney_>I would tell you to ask in #gnome but they might just tell you to use gnome3 instead
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19:58<scientes>^^yeah they would
19:58<elkalel>abrotman: I actually commented out the last two lines.
19:58<elkalel>abrotman: and now it is all good again.
19:59<elkalel>thanks again, and good night!
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20:08<joeballz>I just installed squeeze and my system crashes before Gnome login screen once X is started
20:09<joeballz>i'm running the system now as root!
20:09<joeballz>startx worked as root
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20:09<joeballz>I have no idea how to fix this? .. I installed linux-nonfree-firmware to resolve an issue from command line
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20:10<joeballz>Does any one know about how I can find out what is causing my boot up errors? I can only seem to use the PC and startx from recovery mode as root
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20:12<hellodere>enable boot logging
20:12<hellodere>nano /etc/bootlogd I think or something
20:12<hellodere>set enabled=yes
20:12<joeballz>ok cool I will try that now
20:12<hellodere>then next time u boot youll have a log of boot messages in /var/log/boot
20:13<hellodere>its called bootlogd
20:13<hellodere>lemme double check to make sure I gave u accurate info
20:13<hellodere>one sec
20:13<joeballz>(Nothing has been logged yet.)
20:13<hellodere>nano /etc/default/bootlogd
20:13<joeballz>just checked that file anyway
20:13<hellodere>you have to enable it
20:13<hellodere>its disabled by default
20:13<hellodere>nano /etc/default/bootlogd
20:14<hellodere>enable it there
20:14<hellodere>youd think they would have this enabled by default
20:14<hellodere>but its not
20:14<joeballz>yeah especially when my computer initially power cycled a few times b/c of an error
20:15<hellodere>yeah thats a wonderful way to check boot errors messages
20:15<hellodere>and fix problems some dont even know they have
20:16<joeballz>I thought I would give debian a try.. I like gnome 2, arch linux was a little too over my head, and ubuntu 11 just seems so bloated.. Thanks for your help.. I will give this a go right now and see what it turns up!
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20:23<quentusrex_>what's the debian packaging channel?
20:23<dondelelcaro>quentusrex_: what's your question?
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20:24<quentusrex_>Should a package intentionally call make clean, if the distributed source package already bootstraps the software?
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20:25<quentusrex_>or, should the clean target in the debian/rules file not undo the bootstrap?
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20:27<joeballz>@hellodere the boot logging erases after each i basically see a boot log of booting into recovery mode
20:27<quentusrex_>dondelelcaro, any ideas?
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20:30<dondelelcaro>quentusrex_: not sure what you mean by bootstrapping...
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20:33<hellodere>joeballs no
20:33<hellodere>as far as I know It doesnt do that
20:33<quentusrex_>generally the file in an application's source repo will run the autotools commands to generate the configure file.
20:36<dondelelcaro>quentusrex_: for that particular case, you wouldn't clean out the distributed configure file, however, you may need to call autoreconf or similar after that
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20:36<joeballz>I'm just having trouble seeing what is crashing.. /var/log/syslog has a lot of info.. but its last line is Anacron 2.3 started..
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20:36<dondelelcaro>quentusrex_: the default debhelper rules files can normally handle all that for you
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20:38<hellodere>in squeeze it does not overwrite the bootlog
20:38<dondelelcaro>quentusrex_: specifically, if config.guess and config.sub are ancient, you'll usually need to update them
20:38<hellodere>it makes 5 diff backups by default before it overwrites
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20:38<hellodere>logs are rotated for /var/log/boot
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20:38<hellodere>by default
20:39<hellodere>it only overwrites the older bootlogs
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20:47<joeballz>not sure what's going on.. I'm going to remove the 56k modem and reboot
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20:51<joeballz2>@hellodere actually found this computer in the trash.. hoping to make it my media server
20:51<dpkg>"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." - Terry Pratchett, Eric
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20:52<joeballz2>yes! removing the 56K modem fixed the problem! @hellodere thanks for pointing me in the right direction
20:53<joeballz2>nice.. debian recognized there was a kernel failure and I reported the bug
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20:59<hellodere>oh man theres heaps of interesting distros, what I like to call Appliance Distributions
21:00<hellodere>u can try some of them, pfsense, freeNAS, IPCop, Zentyal, Astaero ASG Firewall,
21:00<hellodere>heaps of fun stuff to play with
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21:12<quentusrex_>When working on a debian package, is there a way to force an upgrade path point? so that if someone wants to upgrade from a 1.* version of a package to 3.* that they first have to upgrade to 2.* ?
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21:28<scientes>schweet hot-plug ps/2 worked :P
21:28<scientes>very risky behavior i know
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21:55<scientes>is there a command i can run to regenerate all encryption keys on the system?
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21:57<dondelelcaro>scientes: no
21:58<dondelelcaro>scientes: there are different commands that you can run to regenerate specific keys, though.
21:58<scientes>i think i need to know those
21:58<dondelelcaro>scientes: depends on the encryption key, then
21:58<scientes>some require passwords to regenerate
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22:47<ar9>does anyone know of a good unstable based distro?
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22:48<ar9>im looking at aptosid but it doesnt have a gnome 3 livecd
22:48<youlysses>Lol, I meant 'Debian Experimental"
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22:49<scientes>ar9, how about debian.....(boom ba da boom)...unstable?
22:49<ar9>well yeah but whenever i try to install it something screws up
22:49<scientes>ar9, also, ubuntu is based of unstable
22:50<ar9>scientes: don't like unity
22:50<youlysses>There aren't many "unstable" based distros ... besides ubuntu.
22:50<youlysses>Beat me ....
22:50<scientes>ar9, well in ubuntu you just apt-get install gnome-shell
22:50<scientes>and no more unity
22:50<youlysses>Just install wheezy, then update sources.list ...
22:50<scientes>but if you are going to use "universe" packages its better to go with debian
22:51<ar9>scientes: well yeah but i want debian repos
22:51<ar9>last time i tried installing unstable it woulndt install grub
22:51<abrotman>experimental is not a distro
22:51<scientes>ar9, you need to become a grub master, like me :P
22:52<youlysses>Did it give an error or?
22:52<scientes>also ^ abrotman speaks truth
22:52<abrotman>youlysses: how much bad information can you spit out in five minutes?
22:52<ar9>youlysses: just a generic one
22:52<ar9>youlysses: wouldn't let me install lilo either
22:52<scientes>ar9, grub only gives generic errors
22:52<youlysses>abrotman: *zsnap"
22:52<scientes>ar9, lilo is DEAD DEAD DEAD
22:52<abrotman>uh .. yeah .. awesome
22:53<ar9>scientes: that was on the disc :(
22:53<youlysses>I've never had an issuse with sid. Maybe I'm just lucky... :-/
22:53<ar9>youlysses: yes
22:54<ar9>i want to stick with debian but it never installs right
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22:55<youlysses>I have debian on all my machines, besides one (gnewsense), and never had an installation problem either. How are you installing? Cd? Usb? etc?
22:56<youlysses>How is it installed ... unetbootin?
22:56<ar9>i use unetbootin, theres an option for "unstable x64"
22:56<youlysses>That's your problem.
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22:56<ar9>which part
22:56<youlysses>unetbootin always screws up ...
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22:56<youlysses>use dd
22:56<scientes>ar9, the problem with unetbootin, is you cant install to the same partition unetbootin is on
22:56<scientes>otherwise unetbootin is great
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22:56<scientes>and you CAN do that if you unetbootin the netboot one
22:57<scientes>which loads entirely into ram
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22:57<ar9>thats what i do... I thnk
22:58<youlysses>dd if=<file> of=<device> bs=4M; sync
22:58<youlysses>;Has never failed me.
22:58<scientes>well if that is what you do, you need apt-cacher-ng on another machine to avoid downloading the same files over and over again
22:58<ar9>I'm a dd noob :(
22:58<scientes>dd, aka delete data
22:59<scientes>"destroy disk"
22:59<youlysses>scienties, on the usb medium ... or?
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23:10<ar9>so whenever i install debian its with unetbootin using "Unstable_netinsTALL_X64"
23:10<ar9>whoops caps
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23:12<scientes>ar9, then try with cat the.iso > /dev/deviceanddontmakeatypehere
23:12<scientes>dont make a typo like i did right there
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23:13<ar9>what if I dog the .iso
23:13<hellodere>hump the dog?
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23:27<dpkg>/quit you fool!
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23:46<scientes>i think i remember someone in this channel having a problem with black display
23:47<scientes>here is the fix;a=commit;h=e36325071832f1ba96ac54fb8ba1459f08b05dd8
23:50-!-mode/#debian [+l 490] by debhelper
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---Logclosed Fri Apr 20 00:00:38 2012