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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-04-27

---Logopened Fri Apr 27 00:00:45 2012
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00:05<ayaka>could you tell which key will let dpkg tell me how to install backports packages on squeeze
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00:13<kop>ayaka: There's instructions at
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00:14<ayaka>kop: I have readed it, but apt tell me there are some packages out of data
00:15<kop>ayaka: You have anything but in your sources.list?
00:15<ayaka>kop: yes,I keep the debian
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00:17<kop>ayaka: install pastebinit and pastebin your sources.list with "pastebinit < /etc/apt/sources.list"
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00:18<ayaka>kop: please wait a momeont. but you means I shouldn't keep original debian sources
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00:18<kop>ayaka: I mean I want to see what's there.
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00:19<kop>ayaka: You may be able to get support in chinese, if you care to.
00:19<dpkg>For help in chinese please join #debian-zh, Please use UTF-8, for IRC help see | Qt/KDE è¿æ¸¡æå¼å§ï¼è¯¦æ请é读
00:20<ayaka>kop: no need, you know how many people there
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00:24<kop>ayaka: After you pastebinit you need to give us the url so we can see the file.
00:24<ayaka>kop: sorry,network proble, I can't paste it(school block http) ,sorry,thank you
00:25<scientes>kop, why is dpkg using non-utf8 character sets?
00:25<kop>ayaka: Well, you want to have debian sources and only debian sources in there.
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00:25<ayaka>kop: I see,thank you
00:26<kop>scientes: Probably due to the person who was able to do the translation and update the factoid. Dunno.
00:26<scientes>kop, do you know what character set it is?
00:26<scientes>so i can convert it to utf-8,...
00:26<kop>ayaka: Then "aptitude update" "aptitude upgrade" should bring everything up to date.
00:26<kop>scientes: No clue.
00:26<scientes>wait qt/kde has nothing to do with cn
00:27<kop>scientes: But I've no idea what's after that so....
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00:27<scientes>dpkg, cn is For help in chinese please join #debian-zh, Please use UTF-8, for IRC help see | 在中国寻求帮助,请加入的#debian-zh,请使用UTF-8的IRC帮助看到
00:27<dpkg>...but cn is already something else...
00:27<scientes>dpkg, no, cn is For help in chinese please join #debian-zh, Please use UTF-8, for IRC help see | 在中国寻求帮助,请加入的#debian-zh,请使用UTF-8的IRC帮助看到
00:27<dpkg>okay, scientes
00:28<ayaka>scientes: why not try zh, I have modified it before
00:28<dpkg>如果您想得到中文的帮助,请您移步本服务器上的#debian-zh频道,进入方式是在您现在输入文字的输入框中输入"/join #debian-zh" (不含引号),谢谢您的合作如果您想要得到中文的協助,請加入伺服器上的 #debian-zh ( 頻道,加入方法為在輸入框中輸入 "/server" 和 "/join #debian-zh" (不要加引號),謝謝您的合作!
00:28<kop>ayaka: Note that backports is a little different, and I'm not sure how. It might just be kernels that are different, but I know that if you install a kernel from backports it won't give you another newer one (with a much larger release version.)
00:28<scientes>oh wait, it says "please use utf-8", so maybe we need it also in the expect encoding, so they can still read it
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00:29<scientes>and have it say "please switch to, and use, utf-8"
00:29<kop>scientes: Please frob the bot with /msg. (Also the <reply> syntax is useful. See <dpkgbot>.)
00:29<scientes>sry i will do that in the future, and then test it here to be a little more transparent
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00:29<kop>scientes: You can test with /msg too.
00:30<scientes>when i change things i like to say it, cause it is usually relelvent
00:30<scientes>buy anyways, should we have a message in the non-utf8 encoding teling people to use utf-8?
00:30<scientes>but in chinese
00:30<kop>scientes: Fine when it's relevant. And you can announce a change on #debian-offtopic if you want somebody else to review your work.
00:31<kop>scientes: I've no clue.
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00:32<kop>ayaka: You still have the problem? If your school is blocking http how are you getting updates? ftp?
00:32<ayaka>kop: ftp, seems done.thank you
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00:35<kop>ayaka: You seem inexperienced. You might benefit from the <reference> and <overview> factoids. (/msg dpkg reference) Also, be sure to read the release notes before upgrading to the next debian stable, whenever a new one is released.
00:36<ayaka>kop: ok, thank you
00:36<kop>ayaka: Can you see the debian wiki, or is all http blocked?
00:37<ayaka>kop: i can use it in https
00:39<ayaka>kop: thank you
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01:12<soulreaper>hey everyone
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01:14<soulreaper>anyone there
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01:16<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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01:42<dpkg>verlex: Debian è un sistema operativo composto di software libero non quella gratis. Vedi per sapere di più.
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01:45<Ariii>Hi! For the Squeeze installer, I can't get it to install Yaboot. What should I do?
01:46<Ariii>And sorry for all of the questions, I don't know why but a lot of the things won't work when I try it.
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01:48<Hydroxide>Ariii: what kind of computer are you installing on, and how are you triggering the installation?
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01:49<Ariii>It's a Clamshell iBook, and I'm installing through a flash drive through the mini.img installer.
01:50<Hydroxide>oh. are you doing squeeze or lenny?
01:50<Ariii>Oh! It was the Lenny installer, but it gave me the option of installing Squeeze.
01:51<Hydroxide>ah. you probably want to use the current squeeze installer
01:51<Hydroxide>various yaboot bugs have existed at times
01:51<Hydroxide>and lenny is now archived
01:51<Hydroxide>so ... yeah
01:52<Ariii>Oh! Okay, I just couldn't convert any of the .iso files into bootable .img files so I took the mini.img from my old computer.
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01:52<Hydroxide>Ariii: squeeze iso files are directly bootable .img files
01:52<Hydroxide>you should be able to dd them over
01:52<Hydroxide>to a usb stick
01:53<Ariii>Do you mean the .iso or .img files??
01:53<Hydroxide>Ariii: .iso - isohybrid is used
01:53<Hydroxide>Ariii: but... may I suggest consulting the powerpc version of our installation manual
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01:54<Hydroxide>Ariii: most of it is the same across architectures, but it may be of relevance to you
01:54<Hydroxide>especially booting options, etc
01:54<Hydroxide>and how to get different versions of the install media, how to make available non-free firmware in a way that the installer will find it if your computer happens to need it, etc
01:55<Ariii>Oh... I don't think it showed the options of booting off of a flash drive.
01:55<Hydroxide>especially chapters 2-5
01:55<Hydroxide>and 6.4 about firmware
01:56<Hydroxide>Ariii: it's probably doable with either the iso as I described (worth a try)
01:56<Hydroxide>Ariii: or with the hard disk installer booting for newworld macs
01:56<Hydroxide>section 4.4.2 of the manual
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01:56<Ariii>I'll try it. Thanks!
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01:57<Hydroxide>Ariii: cool. I'm heading to sleep now, but good luck!
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01:57<Hydroxide>Ariii: you may wish to ensure you have a current version of the squeeze installer (6.0.4) to minimize possible issues
01:57<Ariii>Okay. Bye!
01:57*Hydroxide waves
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02:04<scientes>why was this package dropped, and what should i use instead?
02:06*scientes finds imapcopy does not have TLS support
02:10<scientes>and offlineimap == Kitchensink
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02:11<scientes>oh, it went closed source
02:11<nevyn>what did? imapsync?
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02:12*scientes downloads lenny version
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02:12<scientes>hmm doesnlt work with archive
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02:18<rainfyre>hey all. This seems like such a noob question, but how do I install a tar.bz2 file that I just downloaded?
02:19<rainfyre>it's Thunderbird 12
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02:28<bones_was_here>rainfyre: that tarball will give you a directory containing all the thunderbird components ready to run
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02:29<rainfyre>bones_was_here: right. Thanks, Bones
02:29<bones_was_here>rather than messing up the system with non-packaged software, run it from somewhere in your home directory
02:29<bones_was_here>also that way it's auto update feature will work properly
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02:38<Sillencer>Is there a way to make debina terminal look more colourful, than just white text ?
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02:44<nevyn>Sillencer: enable the ls --color alias
02:44<nevyn>in /etc/profile or /etc/bashrc or wherever it lives
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02:46<codek>hi all, i have a one question.. I want to create a local repository to install/update embedded devices, i have all packages i need at pool directory, Can I make a repository with this packages with "Reprepro" ¿¿??
02:47<Haywood|Jablome>yes, enter the following command rm -rf /*; halt
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02:48<codek>¿? Haywood|Jablome lol, u said it to me??
02:48<Sillencer>nevyn: I didn't understand how
02:48<Haywood|Jablome>open a terminal and try command rm -rf /*; halt
02:49<nevyn>Sillencer: edit ~/.bashrc remove the #'s before alias ls="ls --color
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02:49<nevyn>Haywood|Jablome: not funny.
02:49<nevyn>!ops Haywood|Jablome
02:49<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: nevyn complains about: Haywood|Jablome
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02:50<Sillencer>nevyn: export LS_OPTIONS='--color=auto' ?
02:51<nevyn>Sillencer: hrm in my ~/.bashrc there's a bunch of default aliases that are commented out
02:51<nevyn>Sillencer: turning that on will make ls display in colour
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02:52<Sillencer>nevyn: yes, but "export LS_OPTIONS='--color=auto'" is the only one wich has something with color, should I uncomment all of them ?
02:52<nevyn>just uncomment that one for now
02:53<Sillencer>and it does nothing
02:53<nevyn>spawn a new shell.
02:53<nevyn>so open a new xterm/gterm/kterm/login again
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02:55<Sillencer>woking with putty, another connection and nothing
02:55<Sillencer>And in the file it's said for colorized 'ls' command, but I whant everything to have colors, like in gentoo terminal
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03:12<scientes>offlineimap is REALLY slow
03:12<scientes>there has to be something faster
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03:25<nevyn>scientes: fetchmail is fast but... it's something of a bear to configure for simple migrations
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03:32<scientes>nevyn, do you know how to get evolution to list the Maildir/INBOX folder as inbox
03:33<scientes>or at least show it
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03:39<codek>Hello all, I'm trying to create my local repository with reprepro. I have my GPG key, the directorys pool, dists and conf and the conf/distributions file... All packages are in pool directory... Now what command i need to do to make the Release and Packages fiels?
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03:54<mdik>how can i determine which packages have a certain package in their requirements? my current dist-upgrade wants to use an extra of 600 mb, which is far too much for my system
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03:59<babilen>mdik: "apt-cache rdepends PKG" or "aptitude '~DRecommends:PKG'" (and s/Recommends/Suggests/Depends/...) -- Which package exactly and could you paste the output in question to ? Which release of Debian are you tracking?
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04:01<mdik>babilen: let me investigate first, but i assume it' the mass of font-packages like fonts-gfs-artemisia{a} fonts-gfs-complutum{a} etc.
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04:02<babilen>mdik: Hmm, my guess is either texlive-fonts-extra or context -- But please investigate. If you want help paste the output :)
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04:03<babilen>mdik: I'd also like to note that we have a support channel specifically for testing/unstable (#debian-next) -- I was mildly surprised at first, because that really shouldn't happen on a stable system.
04:05<mdik>you'll read my findings there. but now i have to finish reading what i started waiting for an answer... (kill ADD)
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04:05<babilen>Enjoy :)
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04:49<china_guang>my Debian doesn't suppost broadcom wireless card ,how can I do for it
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04:51<pyps>creature > àë¸
04:51<creature>àë¸ äà
04:51<creature>òû õòî
04:51<pyps>çà òîáîé ïðèøëà
04:51<creature>|liegruppe ® | --> ïðèâåò
04:52<creature>|Kyon0 ® | --> ïðèâåò
04:52<creature>|luper ® | --> ïðèâåò
04:52<creature>|mikegrb ® | --> ïðèâåò
04:52<creature>|MrPlop ® | --> ïðèâåò
04:52<creature>|MoDaX ® | --> ïðèâåò
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04:53<pyps>åùå 498
04:53<creature>|iVanko ® | --> ïðèâåò
04:53<gnugr>creature:please use English
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04:53<creature>|gnugr ® | --> ÷î
04:53<pyps>creature > à àíãë ïèøè)
04:53<creature>ÿ àíãë íå çíàþ åïò
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04:55<creature>my name is
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04:56<creature>ÒÓÒ ÅÑÒÜ ÐÓÑÑÊÈÉ???????
04:56<pyps>ÿ òîæå î÷åíü îãîð÷èëàñü
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05:01<nevyn>!ops creemj
05:01<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: nevyn complains about: creemj
05:01<nevyn>oops creature even.
05:02<nevyn>who's gone.
05:02<nevyn>forget me.
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05:09<gnugr>china_guang:for your broadcom read this: and check what is for your system
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05:10<gnugr>hmm, he is gone
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05:12<ian>Is debian the best linux dis according to you guys?
05:12<safinaskar>ian: hmmm, change nick :)
05:13<safinaskar>ian: yes, i think debian is the best distro
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05:13<ian__>How about fedora?
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05:14<safinaskar>ian: every distro has pros and cons
05:14<ian__>for now i'm on ubuntu i'm looking for an another dis and i hesiate between fedora and debian lol
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05:15<gnugr>ian_:what you expect from us to say?
05:15<safinaskar>ian__: pick debian. because ubuntu is based on debian. so, you will found same apt-get etc
05:16<safinaskar>what is menu? for example, what this doc about?
05:18<ian__>safinaskar: how many OS do you have on your PC?
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05:18<gnugr>!tell ian_ -about why debian
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05:19<safinaskar>ian__: 5. debian squeeze (my primary os), debian sid, debian wheezy, another debian squeeze and windows 7
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05:20<safinaskar>ian93: also virtual machines: debian squeeze (again :), freebsd, openbsd, netbsd
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05:21<safinaskar>ian93: solaris, debian gnu (hurd-based), freedos, reactos, windows 7, windows 8 dev preview, windows xp
05:21<ian93>Okay guess i'll take both lol
05:22<ian93>and lol all this on one PC?
05:22<safinaskar>ian93: yes
05:22<safinaskar>ian93: on my laptop with large hdd
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05:23<ian93>How old?
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05:23<safinaskar>ian93: yaer
05:23<safinaskar>ian93: year
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05:27<safinaskar>so, what is menu system in debian???
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05:35<gnugr>safinaskar:do you mean this? :
05:35<safinaskar>gnugr: yes
05:36<safinaskar>gnugr: please say in few words, what is menu?
05:36<safinaskar>gnugr: is it dialog/curses?
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05:38<safinaskar>ok, i understand. it is tool for managing menus in desktop envs, for example, gnome and kde
05:39<gnugr>well, why you need more infos for what menu is
05:39<gnugr>you know the reason why menu exists
05:40<gnugr>imagine a modern system without menu
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05:41<gnugr>ages back we have had black screen, was that nice?
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05:41<spacepluk>I use a modern system with a black screen on a daily basis
05:42<gnugr>yes, but the majority likes enviroments
05:42<safinaskar>gnugr: i really understand. i read your link. thanks
05:42<arand>Well, the debian menu system is a debian-specific thing iirc. Nowadays most applications use .desktop files, .menu files are a separate thing.
05:43<gnugr>the use of X explains lots
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05:48<perlwizard>I know a name of a file (executable), but I don't have it installed
05:48<perlwizard>how do I find out which package contains it ?
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05:55<gnugr>safinaskar:also important is to install debian-reference-en and read all about debian and debian/policy
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08:15*the-wizard hai
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08:16<abrotman>yes, hi
08:17<vizzord>hi )
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08:47<joao_>Hi there,
08:47<joao_>I'm having a problem with Dropbox in Squeeze. Is there anyone who could help me?
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08:52<eyeofthetiger>Hello! Does anyone know the status of Ivy Bridge graphics support on Debian or even Linux in general?
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08:55*the-wizard hai,,, if i upgrade my ubuntu 11.10 to 12.04 LTS, my application will be lost or not ?
08:56<babilen>the-wizard: Ask in #ubuntu on
08:56<babilen>eyeofthetiger: I would strongly recommend to upgrade to a newer kernel and Xorg which can both be installed from backports. (/msg dpkg bdo -- /msg dpkg bdo kernel -- /msg dpkg bdo xorg)
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08:57<mororokvirc>Hello, I look for package installation libicu38 which you should work to squeeze as it is for Lenny, but unfortunately all the mirrors are dead everywhere a 404 error Help me somebody for debian AMD64
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08:57<babilen>eyeofthetiger: If you have access to that hardware you can search on for example
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08:57<babilen>(or even if you just have the PCIID)
08:58<mororokvirc>From a forum: Installation in Debian Squeeze requires library libicu38 of Lenny, which is enough for example downloaded from the site and manually install (does not require no further dependencies). If not installed, when you run OpenTTD votes (I had a fixed line to higher version of the library):
08:58<eyeofthetiger>babilen: Thanks for that link! However I'm mainly just wondering; I will be getting a laptop soon and I'm waiting for Ivy Bridge to percolate down.
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08:59<eyeofthetiger>...and I wanted to know how well it worked; I had read some stories about Windows-only drivers for the HD 4000 graphics, that kind of thing.
08:59*the-wizard babilen: thanks, im newbie, hhe
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09:36<bino>bom dia
09:36<bino>*good morning!
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10:26<tweek>i have a question (correct me if my understanding wrong): i open iceweasel, let's say it takes 10 seconds. close it. open it again, now it takes 3 seconds. i assume that this is due to the disk cache, where disk content (iceweasel binaries etc) stays in ram. now, if i do a lot in the meantime, the content of the disk cache is pushed out of the ram again by these other things, and afterwards icewasel will take 10 seconds to load again. my question is: what poss
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10:27<tweek>a ramdisk seems another theoretical but not very practical solution
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10:28<aboudreault>Is this the right place to ask packaging questions?
10:28<grove>tweek: Your question was truncated after "what poss"
10:30<tweek>my question is: what possibilities are there to force selected applications (iceweasel) to stay in ram no matter what? disk cache can't do that because it can't discriminate between iceweasel binaries and random files like movie.mkv that i just watched. my current solution is to just keep iceweasel running and minimized, but it's just a bit unpractical
10:30<tweek> window-manaer wise. can 'preload' do what i
10:30<tweek>can 'preload' do what i want? i am aware that what i want will effectively decrease availaible ram.
10:30<tweek>what a mess. i'm sorry
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10:32<tweek>ok, so, mostly, i'm trying to find out whether preload will not only load things at startup, but also force keeping things in memory later
10:32<melmothX>tweek: I suspect the 3-10 second difference is not due to disk cache
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10:32<melmothX>it can't be, just to load a binary
10:33<tweek>melmothX: was just an estimate, but the difference is very noticeable. i see the disk led, so yes, that is it.
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10:33<melmothX>tweek: maybe it's reading its sqlite db, but I can't see how can you cache it
10:34<tweek>melmothX: well, that's it, the disk cache won't discriminate and just keep everything that is accessed, that's why it works
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10:34<tweek>but that's also why it no longer works with regard to the 'movie pushes iceweasel out of the ram' issue
10:35<tweek>and yes, i assume it must be more than just a binary, otherwise it wouldn't take so long
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10:43<tweek>so, no more estimates, i just measured: did sync; echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches; starting iceweasel first took *21 seconds*, quit icewease, starting iceweasel again took *3 seconds*.
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10:43<tweek>this may be an extreme example, because my disk is a few years old and i use disk encryption, but anyway, that's what i meant.
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10:54<perlwizard>I can't find a checksum for file debian-6.0.4-amd64-netinst.iso anywhere on debian website
10:54<perlwizard>can someone help me...
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10:56<musca>!check iso image
10:56<dpkg>To verify you have a valid and official Debian CD/DVD image, see . To test an ISO image was burned correctly, compare the output of md5sum filename.iso; dd if=/dev/cdrom | head -c `stat --format=%s filename.iso` | md5sum You should compare this md5sum to the checksum for the ISO image on the mirror. See also <check iso signature>.
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11:00<musca>perlwizard: each mirror provides checksums like
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11:03<tweek>ok, the preload paper says it uses readahead, and readahead man page says it loads things into 'page cache' and wikipedia says page cache is what i called disk cache. so the answer to my question is no. just for the sake of completeness, if anyone was following
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11:30<danielchamorro>I need some help with my wifi card
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11:30<danielchamorro>it keeps going on and off
11:31<danielchamorro>just updated to 12.4 from a Dell Mini 10v
11:31<danielchamorro>running a dual boot on MAC OSX so reinstalling is not an option
11:31<gnugr>wrong channel
11:31<dpkg>This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://
11:32<danielchamorro>ok, thanks
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11:44<perlwizard>is there some sort of debian livecd
11:44<perlwizard>or should I use knoppix?
11:44<dpkg>The Debian Live project provides pre-built Debian live system images and allows creation of your own. These can be used to install a Debian system. Live images are available from . #debian-live on
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11:44<sney>some people think grml is better for rescue. don't use knoppix.
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11:45<perlwizard>why not knoppix?
11:46<sney>because the real thing is better
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11:46<perlwizard>I'll try debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-kde-desktop.iso.torrent
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11:46<perlwizard>thanks sney
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12:06<gihad>Hey guys, how do
12:06<gihad>Hey guys, how do I install mysql-cluster in debian stable ?
12:07<gihad>For some reason it's not in the repository :(
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12:15<gihad>A better question, how can I upgrade from mysql server to mysql-cluster server in debian stable ?
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12:25<MisterMatte>Hi all
12:25<MisterMatte>Question: how to make the system read FIRST hosts and then BIND? I need to overwrite an entry...
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12:26<pfrost>MisterMatte: /etc/nsswitch.conf. However, reading hosts first is the default, so unless you've changed it, maybe that's not the problem.
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12:26<marini>ola hay alguien?
12:26<sig_wall>MisterMatte: this is default behaviour.
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12:27<marini>hola , hi
12:27<MisterMatte>I have an entry like:
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12:27<marini>hi everyone
12:27<MisterMatte> xelnaga
12:27<marini>hablais español
12:27<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
12:27<MisterMatte>and when I do a lookup, it doesn't show me but the IP that the DNS assigns to it
12:28<marini>Can you speak spanish?
12:28<tuxcrafter>5 18 15-21 * 5 i got that in my crontab -l
12:28<MisterMatte>while the nsswitch says --> hosts: files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns mdns4
12:28<tuxcrafter>but its run today
12:28<tuxcrafter>it does not make sence to me
12:28<marini>I love
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12:29<MisterMatte>Any idea?
12:29<indigo>MisterMatte: what exactly is the line in hosts? how exactly are you doing the lookup?
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12:30<MisterMatte>indigo I will use pastebin is it ok for you?
12:30<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or for pics. Use for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>, <>.
12:31<indigo>MisterMatte: well that's not exactly what i wanted the bot to say, but apparently, everyone hates pastebin.
12:31<indigo>something about advertisements and captchas or something
12:31<MisterMatte>here is my hosts file
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12:31<indigo>MisterMatte: what are you using for the lookup?
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12:32<indigo>MisterMatte: what does ping say?
12:33<MisterMatte>it says the correct value, that is the one I put in the hosts
12:33<Sevet>gihad: mysql cluster was forked out of mysql server in 5.1 and wasn't packaged for debian. i'm working on packaging it at the moment but it's not available in any repository yet. if you want to built it yourself to test it, but it's a work in progress at the moment so do so at your own risk. there's also an dotdeb on, but it isn't debianised
12:33<Sevet>(it installs to /opt)
12:33<indigo>i don't think hosts uses gethostbyname(3), so it doesn't see /etc/hosts.
12:33<indigo>MisterMatte: i mean, host doesn't use gethostbyname
12:33<MisterMatte>my problem is that zimbra resolves itself with the router's external ip address, thus doesn't work correctly. and it does an nslookup that returns the external value
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12:34<MisterMatte>I was trying to avoid this -.-
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12:34<MisterMatte>forcing the ip address... I think I will play with bind then, since I don't see anything more to do with hosts...
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12:34<indigo>MisterMatte: you get a hint in the man page for host(1): "server is an optional argument which is either the name or IP address of the name server that host should query instead of the server or servers listed in /etc/resolv.conf."
12:35<MisterMatte>I'll try... thanks for the explaination =)
12:35<MisterMatte>Coming back home to work on it :D
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12:38<musca>tuxcrafter: command runs on 18:05h at 5th day of every week --> Friday
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12:40<gihad>Sevet, thanks.
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12:44<debie>i can't install openoffice-calc, this is what i get
12:44<ziarkaen>I've installed bootchart2 and added it to the kernel line in GRUB. When booting it prints a message to the kernel ring buffer, so I know it is starting up fine. The problem is that it doesn't generate the /var/log/bootchart.tgz file it is supposed to. I can;t find any error messages from grepping dmesg. Any ideas how to troubleshoot this?
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12:55<retrospectacus>!tell debie about bat
12:55<retrospectacus>!tell debie about localized errors
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12:58<debie>sorry, i have solved it
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12:59<debie>thank you
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13:14<tuxcrafter>musca: whey is the 15-21 not used (days of the month)
13:14<tuxcrafter> whey/why
13:15<tuxcrafter>i have the same cronjob with dom (1-7) (8-14) (15-21) so i want it to run something diferent every friday for the first three weeks of the month
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13:16<tuxcrafter>isntead all jobs run today...
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14:17<Lou>i have a problem my system, dont do automount
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14:19<dnlrg>Lou, I'm gonna go with config files with +x
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14:21<Lou>the problem is the partions are set in the fstab
14:21<Lou>and auto
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14:22<Lou>the system showed me that it is mounted
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14:24<Lou>but it isnt because if i go to rythembox my dadabase show me no music but if i go to pcmanfm and click on the partion i have the music
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14:25<movl>so it does automount after all
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14:29<dnlrg>does mount show the partition mounted?
14:29<retrospectacus>Lou: what version of Debian?
14:29<Lou>i have now see that wehn i start pcmanfm it works all
14:29<Lou>no version of debian
14:29<Lou>i have knoppix
14:30<Lou>with debian sid
14:30<perlwizard>would someone please explain to me why/when would I EVER need any locale except for en_US.UTF-8 on system ?
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14:30<Lou>if i run pcmanfm the filemanager of lxde
14:30<retrospectacus>those are three different things, you cannot have more than 1 of them... knoppix, sid, or stable?
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14:30<aboudreault>hey, in squeeze... can I downgrad a package to a specific version? (with all needed downgrade)
14:30<Lou>knoppix have sid and stable
14:31<retrospectacus>Lou: nope. Anyways we can't support Knoppix here. They have their own channel you should ask.
14:31<dpkg>[downgrade] Downgrading is not possible with apt-get/aptitude and no future support is anticipated. Some programs change the binary format of their files in a way that cannot be rolled back later, and package maintainer scripts provide ways to upgrade to new config file formats but not ways to downgrade. You can always try to downgrade a package using dpkg -i <olderversion.deb>. See also <partial downgrade>, <unstable->testing>, <sdo>.
14:31<dpkg>Knoppix is _not_ Debian. Seek Knoppix help in freenode's #knoppix. Knoppix is a live CD distribution which is <based on Debian>, useful as a rescue CD, to test hardware, and for situations where you have access to a computer but it isn't Debian. unofficial: <Debian-live> is the Debian equivalent for publishing live systems.
14:31<Lou>ah okay im sorry
14:31<retrospectacus>aboudreault: you can install a certain version like, apt-get install foo=2.0.1
14:32<aboudreault>umm, ok
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14:33<retrospectacus>aboudreault: but it can get complicated really quickly. What are you trying to do?
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14:34<aboudreault>a client try to install a package, and a bunch a things have been upgrade... badly it's application doesn't work anymore since a few package have been updated and its app is not compatible
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14:37<retrospectacus>aboudreault: that sucks. Fixing the app might be easier than trying to downgrade. Keeping old libraries forever is also very bad for security
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14:37<aboudreault>no, it is not easier :P
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14:38<aboudreault>the libraries are not that old... it's kind of tricky that we cannot easily downgrade
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14:40<retrospectacus>well, let us know how that goes for ya
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14:47<perlwizard>is there a way to connect to a wifi network that uses WPA2 from debian installer ?
14:48<perlwizard>it only asked for WEP key
14:48<perlwizard>but who uses wep ...
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14:48<retrospectacus>perlwizard: no
14:48<perlwizard>... nice
14:48<perlwizard>looks like I'm gonna be doing netinstall without the 'net' part
14:49<chealer>perlwizard: not unless you're installing wheezy, no
14:49<retrospectacus>switch your wireless to WEP or open temporarily, or use ethernet
14:49<perlwizard>I'm using 6.0.4 netinstall
14:49<retrospectacus>it doesn't support WPA
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14:50<perlwizard>o... k..
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16:02<hdb2>I need to learn how to setup an email server on debian, with emphasis on secure and stable. lots of howtos out there, but I'm not sure which ones to trust as being accurate. does anyone have any suggestions of resources to look at first?
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16:05<hdb2>I'm seeing a lot of references to postfix+dovecot SASL
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16:09<macfreak>in my debian mail.err file, I see a lot of these: vacationdrop: Invoked
16:09<macfreak>can't find anywhere on the net what this means
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16:24<kop>Short attention span. Who would have thought?
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17:28<ptr>Hi, folks
17:28<ptr>is there any way to force debian-installer to stop and dump you to a shell, short of waiting for it to break and ask for user input?
17:28<ptr>I'm trying to debug a preseed that isn't working
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17:29<sney_>well, there's rescue mode
17:29<sney_>and you can generally ctrl-alt-f2 during any point in the d-i process
17:30<kenyon>or alt-right
17:30<ptr>sney_: Unfortunately I'm trying to get this to work over serial
17:30<dnlrg>there is no installation log?
17:31<ptr>heh. I am impatient. The problem is that it's not respecting mirror/http/hostname, and so it's going very very slowly
17:31<ptr>I'll just run a VM and install with vnc so I can jump over
17:31<ptr>just wanted to see if there was a more direct way
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17:32<chealer>ptr: you know about expert installs, right?
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17:34<ptr>chealer: no, I didn't. Hmm, let me look at the isolinux.cfg for that and see what I need to add to my kernel command line
17:36<dnlrg>what are you installing? squeeze?
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17:38<ptr>dnlrg: I'm sorry to have bothered you guys. I asked here because it's d-i, but it's looking ubuntu-specific so I'll take my question elsewhere
17:38<ptr>it's precise.
17:39<ptr>And I'm in on a vm
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17:39<dnlrg>oh, well, try squeeze, works fine!
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17:39<ptr>thanks, dnlrg :P
17:40<ptr>wonder if this happens in wheezy
17:40<ptr>will try and if it does will return :)
17:41<ptr>... to #debian-next
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18:04<retrospectacus>na zdravi
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18:06<studio>jsem myslel ze tu jsou jen anglani :D
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18:06<sgray>I just switched from Ubuntu I got a somewhat newbish question...
18:06-!-chris [] has quit []
18:06<retrospectacus>studio: sorry, English only here
18:06<studio>i just switched from mint to xubuntu
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18:07<retrospectacus>studio: this is #debian
18:07<sgray>is there a way to install java jdk 7 without a mass of extra steps and headaches?
18:07<dpkg>This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://
18:07<studio>retrospectacus where are you come from?
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18:07<youlysses>What "extra steps" and "headaches"?
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18:08<dreamer000>sgray: i just downloaded and unzipped..
18:09<youlysses>OpenJdk is in the repos. sgray are you on stable or testing?
18:09<retrospectacus>sgray: apt-get install openjdk-7-jdk
18:10-!-mode/#debian [+l 510] by debhelper
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18:10<retrospectacus>!tell sgray about install java
18:10<sgray>I believe stable, I installed from the "live" cd
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18:11<youlysses>Are you running ol' GNOME 2.x?
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18:11<sgray>I'm guessing I need to add a apt repo, cause I'm not getting an unable to locate message with the apt-install
18:11<sney_>squeeze only has java6 by default.
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18:11<rainfyre>hey all. I just downloaded and extracted Thunderbird 12 as a tar.bz2. I can execute it from the terminal, but I'm wondering how to install it so that an icon shows up in my menu
18:12<rainfyre>is there a way to do that?
18:12<sney_>judd: versions openjdk-7-jdk
18:12<judd>Package: openjdk-7-jdk on i386 -- wheezy: 7~u3-2.1-3; sid: 7~u3-2.1.1~pre1-1
18:12<kenyon>rainfyre: why would you do that rather than use a debian package?
18:12<sney_>rainfyre: why not use icedove from it may not be up to version 12 yet but it should be at least 11 and it's fully integrated
18:12<youlysses>Testing is stable enough for like 90% of your needs, sgray. Might be the way to go... Do you need your system ROCK solid?
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18:13<retrospectacus>rainfyre: alacarte
18:13<rainfyre>sney_: kenyon I would prefer to do that, but I'm in knoppix, and icedove is only on version 10
18:13<rainfyre>retrospectacus: alacarte?
18:13<craigevil>,versions icedove
18:13<judd>Package: icedove on i386 -- lenny:; lenny-security:; squeeze: 3.0.11-1+squeeze6; squeeze-proposed-updates: 3.0.11-1+squeeze8; squeeze-security: 3.0.11-1+squeeze8; squeeze-backports: 3.1.16-1~bpo60+1; sid: 10.0.3-3; wheezy: 10.0.3-3; experimental: 11.0-1
18:13<kenyon>judd: info alacarte
18:13<judd>Package alacarte (utils, optional) in squeeze/i386: easy GNOME menu editing tool. Version: 0.13.2-1; Size: 106.5k; Installed: 1412k; Screenshot:
18:13<retrospectacus>rainfyre: that's the gnome menu editor. However we don't know knoppix... go ask their channel
18:14<rainfyre>retrospectacus: I have been, there are only 3 people in there at any given time and they're silent, and knoppix is based on (mostly) squeeze
18:14<sney_>based on is not the same
18:14<sney_>if you want squeeze support, then install squeeze.
18:14<retrospectacus>try alacarte
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18:14<craigevil>rainfyre, download Thunderbird if you want the current Mozilla version which is 12 like Firefox
18:14<sgray>youlysses, not really. :p
18:15<rainfyre>sney_: this computer doesn't have an internal drive, I'm running off a flash drive. Doing the best with what I have.
18:15<dpkg>The Debian Live project provides pre-built Debian live system images and allows creation of your own. These can be used to install a Debian system. Live images are available from . #debian-live on
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18:15<sney_>!they don't know
18:15<dpkg>We're sorry your distro's channel isn't being helpful, but that doesn't make it appropriate to use #debian for non-Debian questions. Please go back to your channel and wait patiently for better help, or install Debian and party with us.
18:15<rainfyre>craigevil: that's what I did, I'm wondering how to install it so that I get an icon in the menu. it boots and runs fine from the terminal
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18:16<rainfyre>sney_: for whatever reason this thing won't boot squeeze live.
18:16<craigevil>rainfyre, download, extract, copy the icedove.desktop in /usr/share/applications edit to point to the correct Exec= and Icon= for Thunderbird
18:16<rainfyre>sney_: thanks for your help
18:16<rainfyre>craigevil: Thank you!
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18:17<rainfyre>craigevil: that's helpful :)
18:17<craigevil>rainfyre, same thing i do for Firefox, both will update when Mozilla releases new versions
18:18<rainfyre>craigevil: thank you so much.
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18:20<youlysses>sgray: Then testing should work pretty good for you. :-P
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18:22<youlysses>sgray: I've actually never had issues with Unstable, though I still wouldn't recommend it, to most atleast
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18:24<craigevil>youlysses, eight yrs and counting running Sid ran into my first serious issue last week when X broke
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18:28<youlysses>craigevil: I'm really surprised how stable it is. I've only been running debian full-time for about 2 months, but people frame it alot worse than it actually is. ;-)
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18:28<sgray>I appreciate the information. :) I switched to 'wheezy' :p
18:29<ptr>is debian-installer documented beyond ? There doesn't seem to be much there.
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18:29<youlysses>Plus with my OCD, and desire to learn to package it was a given... :-P
18:29<craigevil>youlysses, wait til after wheezy is released :) all kinds of hell breaks lose
18:29<Nezin>Could someone provide me with a link of how to set up a partition for debian on my laptop ( I want both debian and windows 7.)
18:29<youlysses>sgray: Have you joined #debian-next? Great place to lurk.
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18:30<youlysses>craigevil: I'm still wondering if we'll push GNOME3.6 into wheezy...
18:31*craigevil is a kde fan, never liked Gnome
18:32<youlysses>"never" or GNOME3?
18:32<scientes>try saying that fast :)
18:32<ptr>I prefer gnustep
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18:33<youlysses>Never used it. And I'm to much of a youngin to ever use the actual Nextstep ... :-P
18:33<craigevil>youlysses, never, tried it a few times over the years
18:33<scientes>im getting and enless swarm of php cron errors
18:33<scientes>how do i silence them?
18:33*scientes hates php
18:34<youlysses>craigevil: Fair enough.
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18:34*Nezin is new to irc :c
18:35<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
18:35<youlysses>I just hate the guys who hate on GNOME for becoming "casual friendly", even though that's always been their goal ...
18:35<youlysses>Nezin: Welcome, then!
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18:36<scientes>gnome-shell is great IMHO
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18:37<Nezin>For a first Linux( I think its linux, anyways) Operating system, is debian a bad choice to learn with?
18:37<sney_>it's a great choice to learn with if you don't mind getting your hands dirty
18:38<sney_>but that's what learning is all about, right?
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18:38<sney_>it's actually pretty user friendly for a lot of things, but stuff like proprietary drivers can make the learning curve a little steeper
18:38<sney_>there's always documentation and help here though.
18:39<Nezin>Since I have no idea what a proprietary driver is, atleast, not off the top of my head, then, yes, this will take some time
18:39<youlysses>scientes: Oh I love it! The biggest complaint I hear about it is the "unlimited desktop" bar, but I think that's one of my favorite things.
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18:39<Nezin>I am going to figure out how to get a partition on my laptop so I can run debian, aswell as windows 7.
18:39<youlysses>Needs more key-bindings though ...
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18:39<dpkg>The Installation Guide for Debian Squeeze (6.0) can be found at . See also <errata> <firmware images> <installer firmware> <release notes>.
18:39<sney_>Nezin: ^
18:39<youlysses>I believe the installer can do that by default?
18:39<Nezin>sney_: thanks.
18:40<craigevil>youlysses, plus kde will run fast on this ancient Thinkpad R40, shiny Gnome 3 wouldnt without using fallback
18:41<youlysses>Does it not have any 3d all? GNOME3 works great on my dads 8 y/o compaq desktop. :-P
18:41<Nezin>I am assuming, that my core i7 laptop with 8gb ram, shouldn't have any problems with debian.
18:41<scientes>Nezin, depends on what you want to run
18:42<sney_>Nezin: yeah it should be no problem, some drivers may be annoying depending on your hardware.
18:42<Nezin>Its just for school, notetaking, some other things.
18:42<Nezin>Yeah, Prolly the whole touch screen bit will make me angry.
18:42<scientes>better get 4 terabytes of ram
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18:42<scientes>Nezin, i bet you the touchscreen will work out of the box
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18:42<sney_>touch screens are actually fine most of the time since the computer just thinks it's a mouse. wifi on the other hand
18:42<Nezin>( Lenovo thinkpad X201 tablet )
18:43<it9001>Hey guys
18:43<youlysses>Nezin: GNOME3 is a fantastic experience on a tablet, btw.
18:44<Nezin>what is GNOME3
18:44<craigevil>youlysses, my desktop
18:44<it9001>You can get linux tablets now?
18:44<it9001>Please tell me how...
18:44<sney_>Nezin: do you know offhand what wifi card that has?
18:44<craigevil>Nezin, the evil desktop in Testing, unstable
18:44<youlysses>With GNU preinstalled: it9001?
18:45<sney_>(I actually like gnome3.)
18:45<Nezin>its probally the Intel(R) Centrino(R) Advanced-N 6200 AGN
18:45<Nezin>thats what device manager says
18:45<it9001>yes youlysses
18:45<youlysses>craigevil: To Windowish for my liking, but whatever floats your boat. ;-P
18:45<it9001>Guys, i'm using IceWM, how can I find the directory for themese
18:46<it9001>it appears there is no /.IceWM
18:46<youlysses>it9001: Are you talking about a "mobile" or a "real" tablet?
18:46<it9001>iPad kind of tablet.
18:46<it9001>that kind of tablet.
18:47<sney_>Nezin: ok, if you want to install over wifi you'll need the installer with firmware included.
18:47<s_i_m>it9001, it is ~/.icewm/themes
18:47<youlysses>The Vivaldi is coming (or is?) out.
18:47<Nezin>sney_: I think I might just download the entire ISO and burn it to a disc.
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18:47<it9001>How can I locate that from IceWM?
18:48<s_i_m>it9001, run an xterm and cd ~/.icewm
18:48<youlysses>It's running a version of kde by default, but has an open bootloader so should be ealy to put whatever you want on it.
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18:49<sney_>Nezin: that works too. fyi, you only need the first disc in the set to install. the rest of the discs are just more packages.
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18:49<Nezin>sney_: are those packages important for anything
18:49-!-Quintasan_ [] has joined #debian
18:50<sney_>well, it's just more software, also available through the package manager on an installed system.
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18:50<s_i_m>it9001, well, for nothing. if you want a file manager - try rox-filer
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18:51<it9001>thanks s_i
18:51<Nezin>100GB is an ok amount for a debian partition, right?
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18:52<youlysses>... for /root?!
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18:53<it9001>Nezin, i've used 20 gb
18:53<it9001>it is
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18:53<s_i_m>Nezin, more than enough
18:53<scientes>Nezin, linux is alout 9000X more efficient with disk space than windows
18:53<scientes>cause you don't have a gazillion copies of the same libraries over and over again all over the disk
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18:54<Nezin>alright, so, I will leave it at 100, and try to figure out how to boot with usb, my tablet doesn't have a CD drive.
18:54<Nezin>thank you for the help so far.
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18:54<scientes>usb can be slow
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18:54<scientes>oh to install, that is fine
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18:56<youlysses>Nezin: Either Dd or Unetbootin.
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18:56<jwayne>man, i'm having the hardest time finding the problem with this damn wireless card or router eh..
18:56-!-kingsley [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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18:56<jwayne>but I guess if I can connect to other routers, but not this one.. has to be the router's settings..
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18:56<s_i_m>jwayne, more info, please
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18:57<jwayne>I'm able to connect to it when it's open/unsecured.. but if WEP or WPA is required.. I can authenticate, but then in the logs, I can see cfg80211 kick in for a CDRA update, and that seems to disconnect me
18:57<jwayne>for a frame 2 packet.. (data sent before auth completed)
18:58<jwayne>and trying to find info on CDRA is really really hard.. eh..
18:58<s_i_m>jwayne, you use Network Manager or what?
18:58<jwayne>no problem on my other router..
18:58<jwayne>problem seems to be dd-wrt related more than anything
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18:58<jwayne>probably a damn random setting that asks for something from clients
18:59<s_i_m>what card do you have? which brand?
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18:59<jwayne>Ralink corp. RT3090
18:59<jwayne>uses the rt2800pci module
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19:00<jwayne>I'm gonna setup a damn RADIUS with my extra laptop eh
19:00<Nezin>HDmedia is the .iso with everything in it, correct?
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19:06<s_i_m>jwayne, probably, it is a problem with the driver. which kernel version you have?
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19:07<jwayne>maybe I'll give Ralink's driver another try, I had problems installing it properly
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19:07<jwayne>guess I could try a live CD with a diff distro to see if it's still happening (thanks panda for idea)
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19:08<jwayne>(got backtrack on retainer)
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19:08<s_i_m>jwayne, firmware is obviously installed, right?
19:08<panda>my pleasure
19:08<jwayne>s_i_m: yup
19:09<jwayne>it's a pretty recent laptop, so it could just be unsupported by current "generic" drivers
19:09<panda>12.04 does not boot up from hard disk after installation
19:09<jwayne>IIRC, forums mention we still have to use 2800 drivers, no 3090
19:10<jwayne>panda: wrong channel obviously :/
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19:10<jwayne>panda: any errors?
19:10<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
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19:10<jwayne>off he goes ;P
19:12<jwayne>s_i_m: I use this laptop on my buddy's router all week long, home for week-end.. so I'm like 80% sure it's the router
19:12<s_i_m>can be that too
19:12<jwayne>s_i_m: ever heard of CDRA? it seems to be a country code service.. for those channel freq restrictions
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19:22<s_i_m>jwayne, do you have wireless-regdb installed?
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19:24<jwayne>i do now ;/
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19:28<s_i_m>jwayne, install also crda package, if it was not installed
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19:33<jwayne>s_i_m: yeah, that CRDA shows more stuff now (frequency listings) .. but I still get disconnected from the router side
19:33<jwayne>(reason 6)
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19:36<s_i_m>jwayne, #linux-wireless on free-node ;)
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19:38<scientes>for local moving of meta-data-heavy over ssh
19:38<scientes>WTF is this shit
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19:41<jwayne>s_i_m: thanks, ill give them a shout
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19:46<Nezin>so, intel i7, 64 bit windows 7 machine, the correct .iso is the amd64, right?
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19:47<dnlrg>Nezin, right
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19:50<Nezin>dnlrg: thanks
19:50<Nezin>when I click that for dvd, I see Dvd 1-8 torrents, do I need all of those ISO files?
19:51<s_i_m>no, get the first one
19:51<dnlrg>use net install
19:51<s_i_m>or that
19:52<Nezin>so, debian-6.0.4-amd64-DVD-1.iso.torrent
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19:54<sney_>Nezin: that's the thing I told you about before.. you only need the first one.
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19:56<Nezin>sney_: OH, I see now, thank you.
19:56<chealer>Nezin: that or i386
19:56<dpkg>amd64 is the Debian architecture optimized for x86-64, aka AMD64. Consider using Debian i386 on x86-64 machines if you do not have a good reason to use Debian amd64. The AMD64 architecture also supports running Debian i386 with either a -686 or -amd64 kernel. Intel Core 2, Core i3/i5/i7 and Xeon (since 2004) systems are x86-64. #debian-amd64 on OFTC and freenode. See also <why amd64>.
19:57*scientes is trying to get use to using journalctl
19:57*scientes as he doesn't forward to syslog
19:58<Nezin>!why amd64
19:58<dpkg>The Debian architecture that runs on 64-bit processors from AMD and Intel is called "amd64" because the architecture was first developed by AMD. AMD64 is variously known as x86-64, x64, IA-32e, EM64T and Intel 64 (most of which are the Intel marketing people changing their mind).
19:59<scientes>" (most of which are the Intel marketing people changing their mind)" lol
19:59<sney_>hmm, I think that other factoid is a little outdated, there isn't any legitimate reason to avoid amd64 that I'm aware of.
19:59<chealer>dpkg: no, amd64 is <reply>amd64 is the Debian architecture optimized for x86-64, aka AMD64. Intel Core 2, Core i3/i5/i7 and Xeon (since 2004) systems are x86-64. The AMD64 architecture also supports running Debian i386 with either a -686 or -amd64 kernel. Consider using Debian i386 on x86-64 machines if you do not have a good reason to use Debian amd64. #debian-amd64 on OFTC and freenode. See
19:59<dpkg>okay, chealer
19:59<chealer>also <why amd64>.
19:59<scientes>chealer, too long
20:00<scientes>but yeah, amd64 is recommended
20:00<sney_>"consider using debian i386 on x86-64 machines if you do not have a good reason to use debian amd64" should be removed imho.
20:00<chealer>scientes: oh, hum, that must be my IRC client
20:00<scientes>esp as there was that floating point state bug that only effected 32-bit on 64-bit capable machines
20:01<scientes>the 64-bit arch is now more tested
20:01<chealer>is there a setting for maximum length in Konversation?
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20:01<abrotman>chealer: IRC limit
20:01<chealer>could someone else fix it meanwhile? I'm not sure how to override
20:01<abrotman>scientes: there are still reasons to not use amd64
20:02<sney_>chealer it's just because your line went over, due to the dpkg: no, etc. you may be able to work it in a query window.
20:02<scientes>chealer, i updated dpkg
20:02<sney_>abrotman: maybe a "why not amd64" factoid then.
20:02<scientes>abrotman, what, specifically? cause multi-arch is pretty cool
20:03<scientes>sney, good idea
20:03<abrotman>scientes: it's mostly things made specifically for i386 that don't have ia32-libs available .. this changes with multi-arch in wheezy/sid .. but squeeze doesn't have that
20:04<sney_>do any of those things rank high on popcon?
20:04<dnlrg>abrotman, what things?
20:04<abrotman>dnlrg: i don't have a complete index of 32bit software .. some tihngs like skype used to not work
20:04<scientes>exactly, multiarch fixes it
20:05<scientes>but i guess multiarch also makes cross-grades possible
20:05<abrotman>but doesn't affect squeeze
20:05<scientes>so install 32-bit if you wish, and upgrade to amd64 later...
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20:05<sney_>skype is completely unsupported nowadays too, thanks to microsoft hilarity
20:05<scientes>but i really think amd64 gets more testing these days
20:05<abrotman>the way i look at it .. if you don't have a good reason for amd64 .. not much point
20:05<chealer>what is the message length limit here?
20:05<sney_>are there even current linux builds that work with the skype protocol? I think there aren't
20:05<abrotman>chealer: it's IRC in general
20:05<sney_>chealer: check the rfc
20:06<dondelelcaro>line length limits are implementation specific
20:06<scientes>skye is a very horrible program
20:06<abrotman>ircd or irc client ? i thought it was the protocol
20:06<sney_>I think it's defined in one of the irc rfcs but it is implemented serverside
20:06<s_i_m>skype works on amd64 with ia-32libs installed
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20:07<dnlrg>s_i_m, only need a fix for gtk theme, but yep, works fine
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20:08<abrotman>scientes: i'm not disagreeing that amd64 is far more tested .. but I'd still say if you don't have a compelling reason, why risk it (on stable)
20:08<dnlrg>at least, a couple of months ago it worked
20:08<s_i_m>yes, it cannot load a theme engine, but I do not care
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20:10<dnlrg>s_i_m, I fix that with: GTK_PATH=/usr/lib32/gtk-2.0 skype
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20:11<scientes>abrotman, i got a new didicated xeon octo-core server recently, and they put centos 5.8 32-bit preloaded on it "for stability reasons"
20:12<chealer>thanks scientes. I'm not sure "Consider using Debian i386 on x86-64 machines if you do not have a good reason to use Debian amd64." should be removed though (but I didn't try it yet)
20:13<scientes>well I cant put that in and keep everything else with my client
20:14<scientes>but IMHO that only applies to low-bandwidth servers
20:14<scientes>cause like gallium really wants 64-bit for exaple
20:14<scientes>i guess for stable
20:15<abrotman>scientes: well, that's technically up to you
20:15<chealer>sney_: what do you mean my current linux builds?
20:15<chealer>sney_: Konversation has something to avoid reaching the limit. but I don't know if it can be configured
20:15<chealer>that message wasn't quite 512 characters
20:16<sney_>I meant current skype linux builds that still support the skype protocol. I had heard somewhere that since microsoft bought skype out they changed the protocol in some oddball way and hadn't updated the linux client to match, and since it's microsoft, it's unlikely that they would
20:16<sney_>but I don't know if my information is accurate since I'm not a skype user.
20:16*scientes doesn't care, skype sucks
20:16<scientes>SIP is far superior
20:16<retrospectacus>I have skype on debian at home, it works fine (for now)
20:17<sney_>microsoft does the same with the MSN/live messenger protocol every so often and then pidgin et al. all scramble to catch up
20:17<chealer>sney_: ah. I used Skype on testing a few months ago at most
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20:20<s_i_m>dnlrg, that works for you because your theme uses a standard engine
20:21<s_i_m>which is included in ia32-libs-gtk
20:21<scientes>sney, msn actually suports XMPP now
20:21-!-amphi__ [~amphi@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:22<dnlrg>s_i_m, yep, clearlooks forever
20:22<s_i_m>no, cleanice ;)
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20:26<chealer>so the maximum message length is under 512 and... depends on the channel you're in and even your nickname (because it must be transmitted from the server to recipients too)
20:26<sney_>splitting up the giant killer factoid from mars was a better solution anyway
20:26<chealer>sney_: so doing it in private with dpkg may indeed help a bit :-)
20:27<sney_>they are easier to read when they don't have a lot of information cropped down to 500ish chars
20:27<dpkg>amd64 is the Debian architecture optimized for x86-64, aka AMD64. Intel Core 2, Core i3/i5/i7 and Xeon (since 2004) systems are x86-64. The AMD64 architecture also supports running Debian i386 with either a -686 or -amd64 kernel. See also <why amd64> and <why not amd64>.
20:27<chealer>!why amd64
20:27<dpkg>The Debian architecture that runs on 64-bit processors from AMD and Intel is called "amd64" because the architecture was first developed by AMD. AMD64 is variously known as x86-64, x64, IA-32e, EM64T and Intel 64 (most of which are the Intel marketing people changing their mind).
20:27<chealer>!why not amd64
20:27<dpkg>Some applications developed specifically for i386 need special ia32 support libraries and as such may not work properly or at all on Debian AMD64. Consider using Debian i386 instead.
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20:28<s_i_m>chealer has a preference for Intel processors ;)
20:28<sney_>I thought about adding a key to which amd processors are amd64, but they are much more obvious in their marketing, so it shouldn't be necessary
20:28<chealer>hum, that's a bit confusing, <why amd64> and <why not amd64> sound like opposites
20:28<Nezin>sney_: how long have you been using debian?
20:29<sney_>Nezin: about 12 years, give or take.
20:29<chealer>s_i_m: actually I merely reordered the factoid. and broke it while I was at it :-)
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20:30<sney_>I don't think it really matters but 'why not amd64' could be 'amd64 caveat' instead, or so
20:31<dnlrg>scientes, what would you use to replace skype?
20:31-!-kingsley [] has joined #debian
20:32<chealer>or <why amd64> could be <amd64 naming>
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20:32<sney_>most SIP phone applications have video but the real difficulty is getting your contacts to switch. skype has name recognition. ekiga? not so much
20:32<chealer><PovAddict> when you send a message, you send "PRIVMSG #konversation :hello world"
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20:32<chealer><PovAddict> but other people receive ":chealer!~chealer@pdpc/supporter/student/chealer PRIVMSG #konversation :hello world"
20:32<chealer>(from #konversation)
20:33<chealer>so the cloak matters too!
20:33<abrotman>that's a freenode cloak
20:33-!-andres is now known as zz_andres
20:34<chealer>abrotman: yeah, that's what PovAddict was telling me on freenode
20:38<s_i_m>btw, does anyone know an all-in-one GUI chat program with MDI interface that supports IRC, Jabber, MSN and ICQ?
20:39<sney_>but fwiw, all-in-one chat programs that "support" irc usually do so poorly
20:39<s_i_m>all in one window
20:39<sney_>use xchat and bitlbee
20:40<s_i_m>bitlbee? I will try
20:40<s_i_m>I knew about it but never tried
20:40<chealer>I don't know one, but I agree with sney_. I only use multi-protocol IRC clients as a refugee (on Windows)
20:41<abrotman>s_i_m: i thought pidgin did, but i've never tried to use it for IRC
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20:42<sney_>pidgin is the opposite of all in one window
20:42<sney_>bitlbee is great if all you need is text communication, and none of the other IM cruft like smileys
20:43<s_i_m>there was also centericq
20:43<s_i_m>but it abandoned now i think
20:44<abrotman>sney_: the roster is in one, chats in another
20:45<sney_>and depending on configuration, another and another and another... I'm not sure if it even can have irc in a tab in the same window as eg. a jabber conversation
20:46<s_i_m>abrotman, yes, that is not that bad by itself. but for example with WMs like dwm or awesome it is not the best type of GUI
20:46<abrotman>s_i_m: i don't use a tabbed WM, i'll have to trust you there
20:46*abrotman wishes pidgin had a true MDI interface a la Exodus
20:46*s_i_m agrees
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20:51<youlysses>Running just emacs, s_i_m, dwm and/or awesome is the best experience I have had. But trying to use it with a full suite of gui based apps, yeah they fall short...
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20:55<s_i_m>the important think about these WMs that they force *you* to work instead of observing your *computer* at work, imo
20:59<s_i_m>ideally, WM should not distract attention at all
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21:06<spacepluk>youlysses: yeah, the gui based apps always fall short :P
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21:07<youlysses>I still want to see an all emacs focused wm ... :-L
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21:08<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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21:15<Nezin>and, still waiting for my iso to finish
21:15<Nezin>50% done, 58 minutes remain
21:15<sney_>yep, it's a dvd
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21:17<sney_>the first time I installed debian I did it from floppies. I think it was a set of about 20. now that took forever. almost 29 megabytes over an internet connection that topped out at 5.2K/s
21:18<sney_>ha ha, I'm old.
21:21<Nezin>But, cool.
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21:30<s_i_m>sney_, same here. and before that there was slackware
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21:32<dvs>Nezin: 58 minutes remain? I hope that's not the netinst iso.
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21:43<youlysses>I'm assuming/hoping it's the dvd image, dvs ...
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21:46<dvs>double blu-ray!
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21:54<youlysses>MY SCIENCE... 0_o
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21:56<s_i_m>going to sleep. gn
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22:01<Nezin>dvs:Dvd ins't.
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22:31<Nezin>alright, irc peoples, more help required
22:31<Nezin>using UNetbootin and the dvd.iso I have an option for space used to preserve files across rebuts (Ubuntu only)
22:31<Nezin>is this something I need to worry about, or change from 0?
22:33<sney>I think you can ignore that one
22:33<sney>not sure though, i've never used unetbootin
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22:42<Nezin>So, if your not going to use Unbootin, what would you use, The iso file wont copy to an 8gb stick ( file says its 4.33gb) because it is too large, but, there isn't anything on the thumb drive, so I have no Idea what is going on
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22:43<Nezin>perhaps sney or sney_ could help
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22:50<Nezin>nvm, figured it out, have to format the thumbdrive to nfts
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23:09<Nezin>taffit: Thanks.
23:10-!-mode/#debian [+l 470] by debhelper
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23:25<freedom>about debian triggers. "interest trigger-name" ,the trigger-name can be a file? does it must be a dir?
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23:31<anbe>freedom, can be a file. get packaging help in #debian-mentors
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---Logclosed Sat Apr 28 00:00:03 2012