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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-06-06

---Logopened Wed Jun 06 00:00:09 2012
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00:15<sney>!congratulate birch
00:15<dpkg>Hugs & Puppies birch, you did it!
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00:18<birch>thank you sney and dpkg (bot)!
00:18<birch>I'm very glad that I didn't nuke 4yrs and 4tb of work lol
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00:18<birch>time to celebrate with an episode of lilyhammer and a homemade island hopper
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00:22<chris________>hello world
00:23<chris________>Ive decided id like to try debian. Im downloading 16 iso files for the install cds. Does this sound right? Its the first distro that ive heard doing this.
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00:24<gdb>No, that sounds terribly wasteful.
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00:24<gdb>You need only the first CD to do a standard install.
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00:24<chris________>that saves me alot of downloading then and saves me alot of cds
00:25<chris________>what are the other cds for then?
00:25<birch>chris________, they are mostly language packs for non-english
00:25<gdb>The entire distribution is available on CD, but is not required for installation. All 29,000 packages or however many it is, are all available on CD if you want them in that form.
00:25<birch>the first cd or dvd in the pack is all you need
00:25<gdb>(and DVD)
00:25<chris________>ill go with internet then
00:26<sney>birch, not mostly language packs... it's all of the packages available in debian main
00:26<birch>a net install is also useful (that's what I use on usb for my netbook)
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00:26<gdb>If the machine you're installing on has Internet access, you can even use the netinst image with does nothing more than lay a barebones OS on the machine and then downloads the rest of the required packages live from a repository.
00:26<birch>sney, ah, I think somewhere on the Debian site or wiki it says that chances are the only reason to use the other discs is for non-english, but I could be mistaken
00:27<chris________>ive gotten used to ubuntu-desktop and learned some command line stuff(hope to keep learning) is there anything different with debian?
00:28<gdb>birch: It's really for 2 reasons, only one of which is actually "important" -- for installation on machines that need packages not on the first CD and that do not have access to a Debian mirror (local or otherwise) <-- the important reason. The not as important reason --> for the sake of completeness. The entire distribution can be had on disc.
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00:29<birch>chris________, Ubuntu is Debian based so the command line is all the same. The default packages and the gui are slightly different however.
00:29<gdb>chris________: init system is different, desktop is different, some package policies are different (with regards to DSFG, see: Iceweasel vs. Firefox, linux-firmware-nonfree vs. included on the install CD, etc).
00:29<crunchbang>anyone running disc encryption?
00:29<chris________>it still beats downloading, burning, and installing 16 cds and switching between all of them
00:29<birch>chris________, the first cd or dvd and an internet connection will do the job just fine (I did this not 30mins ago)
00:30<chris________>birch, downloading the first one now
00:31<gdb>chris________: You'll find that most of the knowledge you picked up running Ubuntu will translate directly into Debian skills.
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00:32<scientes>what the hell is going on in here?
00:32<birch>agreed gdb . chris________ you will have to install some extras like the restricted codecs and some drivers but otherwise it's mostly the same. Your browser will not be called Iceweasel instead of Firefox but it's pretty much the same thing (no hate spam please)
00:32<scientes>weve got a gnu debugger, and a reverse system ________________________function call
00:32<birch>scientes, it's an orgy. join in or get out
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00:33*scientes __scientes__
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00:33<gdb>scientes: Ironically, I have absolutely no knowledge of how to use the gdb utility. Doesn't that just take the biscuit?
00:33<chris________>gdb, thought Id check just in case. I had tryed arch linux and was clueless on how to use it. I think I had successfully got it installed but I was clueless on how to use it. I had a fun time having the operating system which I was clueless how to use and not a second computer to download another os
00:33<chris________>birch, thought Id check just in case. I had tryed arch linux and was clueless on how to use it. I think I had successfully got it installed but I was clueless on how to use it. I had a fun time having the operating system which I was clueless how to use and not a second computer to download another os
00:34<chris________>birch, I only have wireless internet connection. Does the cd include the wireless drivers?
00:34-!-__scientes__ is now known as scientes
00:35<gdb>chris________: I started with Slackware 2.0 back in 1994 while in college. I downloaded the floppies at the campus computer center, printed out a bunch of HOWTO documents, and dived in. Don't be intimidated by the system. While it can be easy to screw it up, it's usually just as easy to fix it.
00:35<gdb>chris________: Wireless can present problems (sometimes).
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00:35<chris________>gdb, Ill keep ubuntu installed then until I see it works then. Dont want to have an os without internet
00:36<gdb>chris________: One of the great things about Unix systems is that when something goes wrong, there's pretty much always a discrete, identifiable, and correctable reason why. It's not like Windows where you reboot and pray.
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00:36<nevyn>that's a tad harsh
00:37<chris________>gdb, Funny you mention windows. I seem to break windows and do a reinstall all the time. My record for having windows last was about 6 days.
00:37<birch>chris________, that's probably a world record, ha!
00:37<perlwizard>chris________ debian installer should work with wep or unencrypted wifi
00:37<gdb>chris________: You can dig into the underpinnnings of Windows to nearly the same degree you can Unix, it's just a bit more byzantine under that hood.
00:37<perlwizard>doesn't work with wpa though
00:38<chris________>is everyone able to see red text?
00:38<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
00:39<EmleyMoor>Is it possible to record a session on a kvm/qemu system?
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00:41<chris________>like hibernate?
00:42<EmleyMoor>chris________: No - not like hibernate. Like simply record the screen in real-time.
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00:43<perlwizard>there is ttyrec to record terminal sessions
00:43<gdb>EmleyMoor: I assume you mean record it in the host operating system because you can record the session in the guest using any tools you'd use on a normal system (e.g.; typescript).
00:43<chris________>EmleyMoor, ahh you could run a vnc server
00:44<perlwizard>and avconv to record X session
00:44<EmleyMoor>gdb: Indeed, I do mean that...
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00:44<EmleyMoor>perlwizard: Will look into that - if nothing more specific comes to the fore...
00:45<EmleyMoor>chris________: Will check out
00:45<EmleyMoor>chris________: ... how that might help
00:46<chris________>EmleyMoor, were you able to get hardware acceleration to work with kvm. I went away with it because the video drivers didnt allow for hardware acceleration and I had lots of lag
00:46<EmleyMoor>chris________: Never had any problem with it.
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00:47<chris________>EmleyMoor, I would run a command like 'kvm -m 1024 -hda gnomeShell.img'
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00:52<chris________>how much space does debian need for the / partition?
00:52<spo0nman>Hi, how can i find out who is the maintainer of openvz kernels?
00:52<spo0nman>the current stable is missing a critical patch
00:53<gdb>spo0nman: dpkg -s on the package -- look for the Maintainer: field. If you don't have it installed, -- do a search and get the same information
00:54<spo0nman>it says
00:54<chris________>are you able to search for packages that are not installed with 'dpkg -s'?
00:54<gdb>spo0nman: If the package is missing a critical patch, then the BTS would be the place to go, really.
00:55<gdb>chris________: No, in that case you use apt-cache show $package_name
00:55<gdb>(which you can do on any package, installed or not)
00:55<spo0nman>gdb: BTS?
00:55<gdb>spo0nman: The Bug Tracking System --
00:55<spo0nman>gdb: thanks
00:56<gdb>ie; open a BTS ticket against the openvz package that has the issue, and one of the maintainers will work the issue. You may be asked for more information/details/etc.
00:56<gdb>spo0nman: Do you have an actual patch file? If so, submit that with the ticket.
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00:57<spo0nman>gdb: the stable does not support cpulimit … it's fixed by openvz dev and a patch is provided by them. I'm wondering how to get it from debian downstream
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00:58<gdb>spo0nman: Well, I can't say I'm familiar with all the BTS ticket severities, but I'd recommend opening a wishlist ticket, attaching the patch (in diff -c or diff -u format), and providing a link to any blogs, email archives, etc, where the patch is discussed by upstream.
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00:59<spo0nman>gdb: sure.
00:59<spo0nman>gdb: i'll send an email to the kernel mailing list before opening a bug
00:59<gdb>spo0nman: You then might choose to send an email to the debian-kernel list indicating what you're asking for along with a link to the BTS ticket.
00:59<gdb>I'd send it after, myself, so you can link to the ticket. But you can do it in any order you're comfortable with.
01:00<gdb>The worst that can happen is it'll get closed as WONTFIX. I don't know what the maintiner team's opinion will be on something like that.
01:01<gdb>spo0nman: Is the fuctionality part of the testing packages? Do you know if it's already included in Wheezy?
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01:03<spo0nman>gdb: not sure if it's in wheezy. but i can't find anything about it on the archives
01:03<spo0nman>gdb: also the search on BTS is the suck
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01:19<scientes>gdb, you really should get to know gdb, its a great program
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02:57<wolfpython>in virtualbox (bridged connection mode), can I manually configure the interface of NIC?
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02:58<wolfpython>eg: the VM attached to eth0 of the host, now I configure host to, while eth0 of VM to
02:59<wolfpython>It sounds fine ,but doesn't work
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03:00<wolfpython>If I plug in a cable, and get the ip from router (both host and VM), it works
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03:00<wolfpython>I can access VM from host or vice versa
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03:05<pavi>I am running wheezy with Gnome3 . After regenerating my locales with dpkg-reconfigure locales . I still can't see the languages in regional and language settings of gnome 3
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03:25<jww_>After upgrading from lenny to squeeze, my server lost the file mysql_safe .
03:26<jww_>but my init script still want to use it. does anyone know what's going on ?
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03:29<jww_>oh I found it's bug #578041 .
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04:29<je>emm olaa
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04:44<aubreyr>:( my most edited file in emacs is .emacs
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05:16<emilbarton>hi, I have a pc with lenny that I don't want to upgrade but when I try to update lenny packages seem no more downloadable. Is there a way to update still to the latest version of lenny?
05:16<Kulikeyborad>hi all
05:16<Kulikeyborad>i didn't install debian at
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05:17<Kulikeyborad>hi all i didn't install debian at raid mode on
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05:29<SynrG>emilbarton: see channel topic
05:29<SynrG>that being said, i suppose you could point at the archives
05:30<SynrG>!lenny sources.list
05:30<dpkg>Lenny is no longer on the mirror network but can be found on; you can use sources.list lines "deb lenny main" and "deb lenny/updates main". Realise that Lenny has not had security support since February 2012 and that you should upgrade to a newer, supported release. Ask me about <lenny->squeeze>.
05:31<SynrG>Kulikeyborad: i'm not sure what you're trying to say. are you saying you tried to install on this hardware and it failed? if you want help, you need to give us some details.
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05:31<babilen>emilbarton: ... you should upgrade ASAP though. There is *no* reason not to do so for systems that are used by users and/or are accessible remotely.
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05:37<emilbarton>babilen: no I'm happy with lenny on this pc, there is no reason why I should spend the time necessary to upgrade. But I just found the archive from where I can upgrade to the latest lenny. Thanks.
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05:40<emilbarton>thanks SynrG
05:40<babilen>emilbarton: Well, I can't force you to do anything, but you are aware that you receive *no* security support whatsoever and that your system is already vulnerable to a number of remote exploits, aren't you?
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05:42<pparadis>emilbarton: the time neccesary to upgrade is minimal. running without security updates is not a good idea.
05:42<emilbarton>minimal: lol
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05:44<pparadis>emilbarton: i've upgraded dozens of systems from lenny to sqeeze. what makes you think this is different? squeze was released a year ago.
05:45<pparadis>well over a year ago, actually. security updates for lenny stopped on 2012-02-06.
05:46<emilbarton>besides I think that lenny was better than squeeze all in all
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05:47<pparadis>that doesn't really matter. lenny isn't supported anymore. if you want updates, you need to upgrade to sqeeze. or you're completely free to continue using your system in its present state.
05:47<emilbarton>yes freedom is nice
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05:51<emilbarton>can you tell me what are those nasty exploits people would like to do on my machine ?
05:51<stdhell>emilbarton: What's your IP-address? I would like to block you in my firewall, so your (soon-to-be-)exploited machine doesn't affect any of my machines.
05:52<pparadis>stdhell: he's at
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05:52<stdhell>But is that his only IP-address?
05:52<pparadis>who knows, right?
05:53<stdhell>I guess he would know...
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05:53<stdhell>But thanks anyways.
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05:53<pparadis>stdhell: i kinda even question that.
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05:53<babilen>Lets move on -- I think we've made it clear that running lenny is not an option due to the lack of security support and emilbarton made it clear that (s)he does not care about that.
05:54<emilbarton>sometimes you have to trust!
05:55<emilbarton>i'm a boy
05:56<godzilla>i'm having a hard time finding this information on google, is there a way to access the menu based apt sources configuration from setup again?
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05:57<babilen>godzilla: AFAIK: No.
05:58<pparadis>godzilla: if you're talking about the debconf selection, no. you can edit /etc/apt/sources.list though, or use synaptic, etc.
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06:01<pparadis>godzilla: for example, emilbarton could update his /etc/apt/sources.list to look like this:
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06:03<emilbarton>if he was french
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06:05<pparadis>emilbarton: you don't have to be french to use french mirrors. i kinda figured that might be geograpically close to you, given that your present connection's netname is FR-PROXAD-ADSL
06:05<pparadis>but sure, you can use any squeeze sources you want.
06:06<emilbarton>I feel proud to be the object of such an concern
06:07<emilbarton>are you male or female?
06:07<pparadis>male, why?
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06:09<emilbarton>I wonder the percentage of girls hanging around software channels
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06:10<pparadis>probably rather low for most things tech-oriented. that said, do you have a question about a currently supported version of debian?
06:10<emilbarton>I wonder the percentage of girls contributing to the current version
06:11<pparadis>emilbarton: please proceed to #debian-offtopic
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06:11<emilbarton>sorry !
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06:18<emilbarton>ok thanks all, have a good day!
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06:58<aubreyr>awe emil left
06:59<aubreyr>though i can't say i'd know any numbers on it
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07:07<manash>Hi! I installed debian in dual boot, and I'm unable to access my windows partition. I realized that the partition is fully PGP encrypted. How do I mount PGP encrypted NTFS partitions?
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07:16<sidro>nightsh: :)
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07:17<nightsh>sidro, I'm here
07:17<sidro>i know
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07:22<ssdd>hello. my name is Alexey. Our company have ProLiant BL460c G6 with FC card. I tried to install Debian to it (multipath). but i couldn't do it (bug with grub). i read, that i must 'patche' grub and install debian with this grub. Can I will find allready patched debian for this operation? or, maybe somebody can do it??
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07:23<ssdd>p.s. sorry for my englesh
07:23<Pinguy>In which channel can I get help with my debian/ubuntu/pinguy os installation?
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07:25<dpkg>Pinguy OS is a GNU/Linux distribution based on <Ubuntu>. It is not supported in #debian. #pinguyos on See also <based on debian>.
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07:25<babilen>Pinguy: What is it? Debian or Ubuntu or Pinguy?
07:25<Pinguy>thank you
07:26<Pinguy>Its a kind of netbook edition using ubuntu and parts of mint I guess
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07:26<themill>Pinguy: "parts of ___" means "not our problem, do have fun on your own".
07:27<babilen>Pinguy: Ok -- That is most definitely not Debian and is only supported in #pinguyos on freenode. Good luck and may you have a nice day!
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07:27<themill>Pinguy: there is no way you'll find anyone who wants to support mixtures of random distributions.
07:27<Pinguy> can choose the synaptic packet manager thingy and the update client is from mint...
07:27<Pinguy>the rest seems to be ubuntu..even with ubuntu one
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07:28<themill>Pinguy: so none of this is related to #debian at all then. See if there's anyone in #pinguyos on who is mad enough to touch this concoction.
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09:20<houms>I am trying to run wireshark as non root user. I have installed wireshark and pcaputils which includes dumpcap. But there is no wireshark group to add my user to
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09:22<pparadis>houms: <-- see the header "Most UNIXes"
09:23<houms>i saw that and followed the link to the Debian README
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09:23<houms>and in that readme it mentions adding user to the wireshark group
09:23<houms>i guess i have to create the group
09:24<pparadis>i wouldn't do that.
09:24<pparadis>did you get the bit about dpkg-reconfigure wireshark-common ?
09:24<houms>i see that
09:24<houms>when you say i wouldn't do that
09:24<houms>what are you referring to?
09:24<pparadis>i wouldn't manually just create the group.
09:24<houms>i see
09:24<houms>that is what i was thinking that the group should have been created
09:25<pparadis>well, please describe exactly what you have done.
09:25<houms>I had installed wireshark some time ago and have used it using kdesu wireshark for example
09:25<houms>but wanted to run it more securly if possible
09:25<houms>after searching it says dumpcap is required to do so
09:26<houms>but no mention of dpkg-reconfiguring the common package
09:26<pparadis>dumpcap is what actually captures packets.
09:26<houms>so i assume this method is safer than running it the way i was?
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09:26<houms>i assume it is better to run it with dumpcap
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09:27<pparadis>running less things as root is always a good idea. running dumpcap with root privs and the rest of wireshark with normal user privs seems like a good idea.
09:27<pparadis>wireshark already uses dumpcap to capture packets.
09:27<houms>lol, thanks pparadis just needed some affirmation
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09:27<pparadis>there's also that which describes things in a bit more detail ^
09:28<pparadis>under the heading "A better way" :)
09:28<houms>thanks for the info pparadis, reading it now
09:28<pparadis>no problem
09:29<houms>so essentially using the dpkg method provides those "better way" steps in one fell swoop?
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09:29<houms>with the exception of having to add your user to the group post dpkg
09:30<pparadis>i'm not running wireshark myself; did you already try this? dpkg-reconfigure wireshark-common
09:30<houms>yes it asks do you want to allow non-root users to run wireshark
09:30<houms>i then see the wireshark group so i added my user to it
09:30<houms>but i have to log out and back in to confirm
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10:33<ratnick>how do I delete menu link links that cannot open uninstalled applications?
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10:37<ratnick>Is there an xfce channel?
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10:41<towo`>#debian-xfce at freenode
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10:52<blink>I am having a problem connecting my usb devices to virtual machines in vmware workstation since switching to debian from ubuntu
10:53<blink>The VMWare workstation log states: 2012-06-06T10:47:22.541-05:00| vmx| W110: USBGA: UsbgHostSetAutoConnect: arbitrator not open
10:53<blink>i suspect an issue with udev
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10:55<coreyb>Hello Team #Debian!
10:56<coreyb>I have a google voice phone # and my goal is to be able to use pidgin to send and receive text. anyone have experience with this?
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11:01<Dmitry>hello my dears
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11:17<deb_user>how can I downgrade packaegs from experimental to unstable ?
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11:20<babilen>deb_user: Pin sid to 1001 + dist-upgrade or remove/purge and reinstall
11:20<babilen>!tell deb_user about downgrade
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11:23<afuentes>is there a way to reconfigure keyboard to international with altgr dead keys from the console?
11:24<afuentes>i found dpkg-reconfigure console-setup with does not work as stright forward as one could expect :/
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11:28<babilen>afuentes: You want "dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration"
11:30-!-mode/#debian [+l 520] by debhelper
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11:30<afuentes>babilen, its also a complicated command... better than console-setup tho... :) is there a parameter i can set up in some obscure file or some parameter i can pass to some obscure command to achieve the same thing?
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11:31<afuentes>also, this dpkg-reconfigure is intended to be run as root... witch i might not be always be
11:32<afuentes>when i enter in some machine via ssh the keyboard... i guess ssh is not passing my keyboard conf to the machine, just output the letters, isnt it?
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11:32<afuentes>the keyboard works as i have it configure it locally*
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11:34<houms>trying to copy a file from a directory i have sudo access to on remote server. is there a way to do this using scp or ssh -c?
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11:37<grove>houms: Someting like `ssh <remote server> "sudo cat <file>" > <local-file>`
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11:38<Eliteminimalist>irssi ftw.
11:39<Dmitry>no, weechat rox
11:39<Eliteminimalist>you wish c:
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11:46<houms>grove when i try it says
11:46<houms>sudo: sorry, you must have a tty to run sudo
11:47<grove>houms: try adding a -t to the ssh
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11:47<Eliteminimalist>Anyone using minimalist wm's here?
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11:48<amphi>Eliteminimalist: dunno if xmonad counts as minimalist - -contrib is quite vast ;)
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11:49<Eliteminimalist>amphi: xmonad is pretty minimalist
11:49-!-dvs [] has joined #debian
11:49<amphi>I find it exceeding pleasant
11:50-!-mode/#debian [+l 513] by debhelper
11:50<amphi>and gratifyingly endless, if one is in a mood to tinker
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11:50<Eliteminimalist>im using WindowLab
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11:50<Eliteminimalist>(use xterm for launching applications)
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11:51<amphi>xmonad's Prompt.Shell works well
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11:51*amphi wots not of WindowLab
11:51<Eliteminimalist>My main wm is openbox
11:51<amphi>and I don't like that bicapitalisation much ;)
11:52<Eliteminimalist>with lxpanel
11:52<amphi>the stench...
11:52<Eliteminimalist>but im using windowlab for a while..
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11:53<houms>grove thanks now it is complaining about bash: cat: command not found
11:53<houms>though when i log in via ssh to the box i can use cat
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11:53<Eliteminimalist>why im using windowlab with 1 gb of ram i shall never know..
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11:54<amphi>I have 8GB here
11:55<amphi>that doesn't mean I wish to waste it on a wm
11:55<Eliteminimalist>My home pc has exactly 8gb...
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11:56<grove>houms: I have no immediate idea what that might mean - a random guess: try using full path, i.e. /bin/cat
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11:56<dpkg>stallman: È possibile di scaricare un sacco di software libero puntando il tuo browser a !
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11:56<Eliteminimalist>was that rms?
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12:00<houms>grove i appreciate your help. but it seems its a no go. bash: /bin/cat:: No such file or directory
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12:00<houms>even though which cat results in /bin/cat
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12:02<Eliteminimalist>xmonad wants to take up 446 mb of my system
12:02<Eliteminimalist>No thanks.
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12:03<babilen>Eliteminimalist: try awesomewm -- xmonad pulls in the haskell stack (which you might be happy about or not)
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12:04<Eliteminimalist>one sec, opening synaptic in xterm, lol.
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12:06<Eliteminimalist>Installed, switching wm now (going to disconnect my irc for a bit)
12:06<babilen>Eliteminimalist: If you want a minimal setup I would recommend to start by replacing synaptic with apt-get/aptitude :)
12:06<Eliteminimalist>im too lazy ;)
12:06<Eliteminimalist>i will do it eventually though
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12:06<Eliteminimalist>ok bye for a few mins - switching wm
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12:09<Eliteminimalist>Im back
12:09<Eliteminimalist>awesome wm is cool....
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12:47<vagvaf>hello: although i manage to install debian without problem in graphical install when i boot into my new system the monitor turns half black/half snow-noise and never recovers
12:47<vagvaf>any ideas?
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12:48<leequarella>rvm servers down?
12:49<Sevet>vagvaf: the graphical install will be using a more basic driver than when you boot into your new system
12:49<Sevet>check your xorg.log
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12:51<vagvaf>Sevet: this is probably impossible as i cannot see anything
12:51<pparadis>vagvaf: ctrl + alt + f2
12:52<vagvaf>pparadis, every terminal has the same black screen
12:52<chealer>vagvaf: at which point?
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12:53<vagvaf>chealer i can see the first 3 lines of booting something about modprobe and /dev and then it goes black
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12:54<chealer>vagvaf: which graphics card do you use?
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12:54<Sevet>vagvaf: boot into single user mode (no x11 graphics so will finish booting without graphics card crash) and then you'll be able to read the xorg.log from the previous boot
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12:56<vagvaf>hmm ok i'll try it! chealer unfortunately i cannot remember the model as the pc is at my work and i'm at home. probably a 3-year-old ATI
12:56<Sevet>when you get the command line interface
12:56<Sevet>do 'lspci'
12:56<Sevet>it'll tell you what card you have
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12:56<chealer>vagvaf: check the model when you can. which Debian suite do you use?
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12:57<vagvaf>stable netinst 386
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12:58<Sevet>as a sidenote, on a 3year old machine you'll probably find you can use amd64 too (but that won't solve your graphics issue)
12:59<vagvaf>true, but i only had a 32bit image on my stick at the time:/
12:59<chealer>vagvaf: do you know GRUB a bit? if the card is a radeon, try booting with the nomodeset kernel parameter.
12:59<Sevet>fair enough :) i doubt it'll matter as far as the graphics driver goes
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13:00<vagvaf>i'll try it tomorrow morning
13:00<vagvaf>thanks for the tips:)
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13:11<qmr>twisted.internet.error.CannotListenError: Couldn't listen on [Errno 13] Permission denied.
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13:12<qmr>I've configured authbind, and the user in question owns /etc/authbind/byport/22 , which is 755
13:12<qmr>am I missing something?
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13:16<Sevet>qmr: are you running your script through authbind?
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13:17<qmr>Sevet: ...maybe.
13:17<Sevet>also try --deep if there's any kind of fork happening
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13:18<qmr>Sevet: \o/
13:19<qmr>I swear I copied and edited my start script. but . it disappeared. anyway, if you feel like trying to brute force a host, PM me :P
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13:21<qmr>Sevet: I did "authbind --deep ./", working for now. I'll have to edit the script later. Now, I wait for the russians and brazilians and the chinese ..
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13:42<retrospectacus>hi jpg_
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13:43<jpg_>wheezy is cool
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13:46<retrospectacus>jpg_: it's getting there. Still being tested though, if you have problems ask in #debian-next - this channel is primarily for stable
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13:50<jpg_>just testing it and feeling pure joy :-D
13:51<jpg_>btw debian 6.0.5 doen't run on ivy - right?
13:51<jpg_>... doesn't ...
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13:55<SynrG>jpg_: possibly could with a kernel and xorg backport
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13:55<SynrG>i haven't confirmed this personally
13:56<AlexLikeRock>buenos dias gente :)
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13:58<Pocoloco>Hello i am trying to share my lan internet via wireless to another debian machine is there any easy way of doing that ?
13:59<Sevet>Pocoloco: bridging or routing?
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14:00<Pocoloco>Sevet let me look up the terms ill get back to you
14:00<Sevet>bridging: get IPs for wireless clients from lan router, just links the interfaces together so they're both the same network joined by your debian machine
14:01<Sevet>routing: IPs on wireless use their own IP range, debian machine acts as a router between the two
14:02<Sevet>!tell pocoloco about bridge setup
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14:08<SynrG>hostapd may also be relevant
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14:09<SynrG>!tell Pocoloco about hostapd
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14:09<jpg_>!tell jpg_ about bridge setup
14:09<SynrG>!self tell
14:09<dpkg>Please do not use the bot's !tell feature on #debian to see factoids for yourself (!tell me about something). Doing so could be considered spam. Instead, send a private message to the bot (dpkg) containing the factoid you want to read. For example, instead of "!tell me about foo", use "/msg dpkg foo". See also <msg the bot>
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14:10<jpg_>!tell me about bridge setup
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14:10<SynrG>jpg_: read the factoid more carefully :)
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14:46<pavi>localepurge was used by me and I am unable to go back to previous state . The manual said something like apt-get --reinstall --fix-missing install $(dpkg -S LC_MESSAGES | cut -d: -f1 | tr ', ' '\n' | sort -u) . Running the above command gives me a segmentation fault , what could that be ?
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15:28<pavi> localepurge was used by me and I am unable to go back to previous state . The manual said something like apt-get --reinstall --fix-missing install $(dpkg -S LC_MESSAGES | cut -d: -f1 | tr ', ' '\n' | sort -u) . Running the above command gives me a segmentation fault , what could that be ?
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15:36<peter>anybody der?
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15:37<supaman>pavi: so issue that dpkg -S and look through the list
15:37<pavi>supaman, yeah got a decent list of packages
15:38<pavi>actually I even manually tried re install with that list
15:38<supaman>and did you get a segfault out of that also?
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15:38<pavi>yeah manually got it
15:39<supaman>ok, can you paste the command and the output of that on
15:39<pavi>The manual one ? ^ is the list of packages
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15:40<supaman>can you paste the command and the output that gives the segfault
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15:41<supaman>does apt-get work for you at all?
15:42<pavi>ofcourse :) I even ran apt-get upgrade
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15:44<supaman>try to run just apt-get --reinstall
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15:45<supaman>and the list of packages
15:45<supaman>skipp -u and --fix-missing
15:45<qmr>Anyone have a clever way to get the last N lines of a screen session? I'd prefer to avoid running screen with the -L option if that's at all possible
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15:47<supaman>pavi: may I ask, why are you doing this?
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15:49<pavi>supaman, I tried apt-get --reinstall install for same result . And I am doing this because earlier I installed localepurge and all my locales are gone , now I want to add locale support and I am stuck
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15:49<Nano>k asess
15:49<isra>eseee nanooo
15:50<Nano>desconestaross cabrones y cabronas
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15:50<isra>esooo k essss
15:50-!-isra [] has quit []
15:50<Nano>comermela todos meno el isra
15:51<supaman>pavi: getting back your locales should be done by running dpkg-reconfigure locales
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15:52<pavi>supaman, running that was not enough to revert the damage done by localepurge . apparently it only avoids future localepurges
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15:53<pavi>my /usr/share/locales is empty because it has earlier been purged by localepurge
15:54<supaman>ok, try then apt-get --reinstall install locales
15:54<Nano>panf tsd adsre jgf a cocscon a porro tus muerto
15:54<Nano>los tuyo po si a caso
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16:01<pavi>supaman, That was equivalent to dpkg-reconfigue . By the way says that it makes things behave strangely
16:02<supaman>pavi: you have purged that tool out havn't you?
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16:02<ryerke_>pavi: From need to remove localepurge and reinstall every ppackage you want to have the locales for
16:02<pavi>supaman, yeah purged it
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16:04<supaman>pavi: so the apt-get --reinstall install locales worked?
16:04<pavi>ryerke_, trying to do the same but I am presented with segfaults
16:04<supaman>as it it didn't segfault
16:04<supaman>s/as it/as in
16:04<pavi>supaman, yeah reinstall worked for single package
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16:05<supaman>what about two packages?
16:05<supaman>liek a2ps and acl
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16:05<isra>spanish pliss
16:06<dpkg>hmm... sp is troubled: you stats pimp!
16:06<gnufan>GNOME 3 in testing, what is the shortcut key for the "User menu". I know I googled it up a few weeks ago but my brain has obviously turned to slush in the meantime
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16:06<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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16:07<pavi>supaman, I am doing the reinstall manually for all gnome packages and its working
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16:07<pavi>looks like there was a blocking package which is causing segfault
16:07<supaman>pavi: and you can do it for more then one package in one command?
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16:08<supaman>try the full command again then, it might work
16:08<Hydroxide>isra: that will go away automatically in 10 minutes, so no need to ask for it to be removed. feel free to participate here constructively, but don't spam the channel with nonsense if you want to be allowed here
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16:12<pavi>supaman, Thankyou I solved my problem by removing important programs like dpkg,apt,aptitude ,debconf-i18n and ran the remaining list
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16:13<pavi>its working :) I can now see gnome french and telugu in gnome language settings :)
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16:13<pparadis>wait what
16:13<supaman>pavi: you removed dpkg?
16:14<pavi>supaman, yeah removed it from the reinstall list
16:14<supaman>ahhh ... ok, phew ;-)
16:16<pavi>supaman, I guess some bigshots ( dpkg , apt) dont like to be messed up ;)
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16:16<supaman>pavi: could be :-)
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16:51<jvelasquez>I'm looking for a good manual on sysv init because, I'd like to have a server boot differently, start different services depending on environment variables. I'd like to alter the runlevel at boot depending on an environment variable.
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16:55<s3a>Is it possible to have different 3 root partitions with linux, bsd, hurd that all use the same home partition without problems? (provided that each 3 root partitions are always upgraded to the same Debian branch like squeeze for example)
16:56<s3a>(Please prefix my name if you answer.)
16:57<pparadis>s3a: the simple answer is "that's going to depend on what software from each OS is touching those home directories."
16:57<pparadis>the real answer is "your mileage is certain to vary, and there may well be interesting side effects for such a configuration."
16:58<retrospectacus>s3a: you can run into problems with e.g. ~/.config/chromium or ~/.gconf where different OSs have different versions, configs
16:58<pparadis>that ^
16:58<retrospectacus>s3a: using a different username per OS is a decent fix
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17:00<s3a>o man, i didn't consider making different usernames
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17:00<s3a>would that solve all problems?
17:00<s3a>assuming i keep same version, etc
17:00<s3a>just different kernel
17:00<pparadis>s3a-debian s3a-bsd s3a-hurd <-- sure, why not
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17:01<retrospectacus>I think it would.. try it and let us know ;)
17:01<retrospectacus>same version of ? shouldn't matter
17:01<s3a>ok i will tell you if it works if i remember ;)
17:02<s3a>and basically, it'll just be additional hidden directories with shared "not important" files like pictures of my family, music, etc, right?
17:03<pparadis>why would home directories be hidden?
17:03<jvelasquez>At boot, how does the kernel know to run /sbin/init? How could I change the behavoir at boot to run a different runlevel depending on an environment variable?
17:03<retrospectacus>that stuff could go on a separate "data partition"
17:03<s3a>pparadis, no. the configuration file directories i meant
17:03<pparadis>you can change what init gets passed to the kernel in grub. <-- jvelasquez
17:04<SynrG>you may want to consider some sort of home dir replication, git-backed or otherwise
17:04<pparadis>jvelasquez: you can edit that interactively at boot by pressing "e" and then passing "init=/bin/blahwhatever" on the line containing vmlinuz
17:04<pparadis>then ctrl +x to continue booting
17:04<retrospectacus>jvelasquez: yes you can see /sbin/init in the grub options but no idea about changing it in that way... what are you really trying to do?
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17:05<SynrG>gnerally, disk space is cheap, but your time to maintain synchronized configs between systems is not
17:05<pparadis>+1 for the idea to use git
17:06<pparadis>that would also let you only sync "real" data and avoid potential conflicts with config files in your homedirs.
17:06<Pocoloco>Hello i have a wierd problem, i just installed Nvidia drivers, and there is a wierd colour change on videos primarily youtube
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17:07<pparadis>if you wanted to get fancy with it, you could set up a little local git repository on a separate "server" on your LAN, and do your syncs automatically on each OS at login.
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17:08<pparadis>the only trick to the git bit would be either remembing to sync your homedir before you log out or setting up a cron to push it periodically.
17:08<SynrG>some debian developers have previously posted to planet debian about how to maintain such a thing. joey hess for one, i believe
17:08<jvelasquez>retrospectacus, I've my Grub menu at boot to provide my users with different debian modes of operation: {production, backup}, and now must make init during boot, run a different runlevel.
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17:09<pparadis>git push it push it real good
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17:11<jvelasquez>retrospectacus, perhaps I can code a little wrapper /sbin/myInit, pass to kernel 'init=/sbin/myInit', and myInit checks it's mode, and then runs init. Do you think this would work, or is there a simpler way?
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17:11<pparadis>really, again?
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17:12<retrospectacus>jvelasquez: sounds kinda reasonable, but I don't think I'm qualified to answer that :P
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17:13<jvelasquez>Or perhaps it's best to make a script /etc/rc2.d/S00init, that checks and then redirects to runlevels 2,3, or 4.
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17:14<jvelasquez>Would it be reasonable to make a script /etc/rc2.d/S00init, that redirects to runlevels 2,3, or 4, based on environment vars passed from grub at boot?
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17:15<craigevil>run levels 2-5 are the same
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17:15*pparadis doesn't understand what the real underlying objective is.
17:15<jvelasquez>craigevil, I plan on customizing them.
17:16<jvelasquez>Is there a command to tell me which run level I'm currently in?
17:16<craigevil>good way to break things
17:16<retrospectacus>jvelasquez: "runlevel"
17:17<jvelasquez>thanks guys, for the input. anything else I should know?
17:17<pparadis>jvelasquez: if you're trying to control what gets started at boot, would it not be easier to disable automatic service starts altogether and only start what you want based on an initial flag instead?
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17:17<jvelasquez>pparadis, Yes!! how would I proceed?
17:17<Pocoloco>google fu to the rescue removed hardware acceleration on videos
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17:18<craigevil>right click flash video, uncheck use hardware acceleration
17:19<pparadis>jvelasquez: just as a quick way of doing it, you could set init to /bin/init1 or /bin/init2, which would simply run the normal init and then start the services you want for that config.
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17:21<jvelasquez>pparadis, so I code a little C app, which tests for flags from boot, then runs normal /sbin/init $LEVEL depending on whatever it decided? and then customize my runlevels by adding and removing S and K scripts in /etc/rc[234].d ?
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17:22<jvelasquez>pparadis, err. I mean, so I write little C apps at /sbin/init1 and /sbin/init2, which just runs /sbin/init [2,3, or 4] ?
17:22<pparadis>for what you're describing, i wouldn disable automatic startup of all the services you want to control based on boot profile, and simply start them in order with init1 and ini2 functioning as scripts.
17:23<retrospectacus>just one-line sh files, no need for C
17:23<jvelasquez>pparadis, ohh.
17:23<jvelasquez>retrospectacus, ohh
17:23<jvelasquez>the kernel can run .sh scripts at boot?
17:24<pparadis>you can bash init=/bin/urmom and if it starts with #!/bin/bash i'm pretty sure it will run as a bash script ;)
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17:24<pparadis>rather, s/bash init/grub init/
17:24<pparadis>but yeah
17:24<jvelasquez>sweet. I'm gonna test this out. thanks guuys.
17:25*jvelasquez will return later
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17:26<vicent>i need gpsca-source for debian squeeze
17:26<vicent>please, anyone help me?
17:27<pparadis>vicent: that package isn't in the reposiroties.
17:27<pparadis>repositories, even.
17:27<retrospectacus>vicent: there is none for squeeze. You could get it from the lenny repository
17:28<retrospectacus>it's built into the kernel now, no need for source
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17:32<retrospectacus>vicent: I had to add LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libv4l/ to my skype launcher
17:32<retrospectacus>Nano: stop that
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17:36<retrospectacus>isra: stop that
17:36<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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17:43<vicent>pparadis, ""
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17:43<vicent>gpsca-source for debian not found
17:44<pparadis>vicent: retrospectacus indicated that the module for it is already in the kernel.
17:44<pparadis>rather, it's already included in the kernel.
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17:44<pparadis>17:32 < retrospectacus> vicent: I had to add LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libv4l/ to my skype launcher
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17:49<retrospectacus>vicent: if you explain your actual problem maybe we can help you better
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17:51<jchoul>sudo chown $USER:sth /mydir/$USER
17:51<jchoul>im getting chown: /..../workplace/$USER/$USERsth : invalid user
17:52<pparadis>jchoul: please start by telling us what version of debian you are running, exactly what you are trying to do, and what exactly you've done so far.
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17:53<vicent>i have a Pixart Imaging, Inc. Q-TEC WEBCAM 100
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17:54<vicent>my english is very poor!, sorry !
17:55<retrospectacus>vicent: ...and the webcam doesn't work? In what program?
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17:56<jvelasquez>any idea which package has the man pages for C system syscall functions like system, exec, etc.. ?
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17:57<vicent>i want install a driver for this webcam
17:57<retrospectacus>vicent: if the driver is gspca, you already have it installed.
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17:58<retrospectacus>if you have squeeze
17:58<vicent>yes, debian squeeze
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17:59<retrospectacus>vicent: so everything is great. Or do you have an actual problem to describe?
18:00<vicent>How do I make the webcam work?
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18:00<pparadis>vicent: what program are you using the webcam with?
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18:02<vicent>any program
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18:02<pparadis>vicent: what program is any program?
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18:03<pparadis>if you don't provide specific information, including relevant error messages from specific programs, we probably can't help you.
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18:04<vicent>This is the first time that I install a webcam
18:05<kop`>vicent: So you want to know what program to use?
18:05<retrospectacus>vicent: that is not useful ingormation
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18:06<vicent>yes , kop
18:06<vicent>do if, which I can recommend?
18:06<pparadis>vicent: at the risk of sounding crass, we don't care what you're using your webcam for. we only care what program you're trying to use with your webcam. if you can't tell us that, and tell us exactly how it isn't working (error messages, etc), we can't help you.
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18:06<retrospectacus>vicent: if you just want to look through it and take pictures or video, install cheese
18:06<kop`>vicent: You could install <debtags> and search for "hardware::camera". There's lots of choices. It depends on what you want to do with it.
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18:07<pparadis>vicent: since you're here telling us your webcam doesn't work, i have to assume you've already tried to use it with at least one program.
18:08<kop`>vicent: Right. Nothing wrong with asking for recommendations, but we need to know that's what you're asking for. (Insead of help with some specific program.)
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18:08<vicent>I want to use the webcam for video calls
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18:09<pparadis>vicent: you mean like with skype or similar services?
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18:12<kop`>vicent: Perhaps the ekiga package? If not install debtags and search for voip. (If you want voice.)
18:12<vicent>yes, pparadis
18:14<pparadis>vicent: but as kop` just mentioned, ekiga is open source software -->
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18:26<craigevil>use axi-cache search hardware::camera
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18:26<lja>does debian support power standby?
18:27<retrospectacus>suspend to ram? yes
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18:27<qpr>lja, what do you mean by that, hibernate/sleep type functionality?
18:27<lja>well, suspend to ram... what other os's call "standby"
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18:28<retrospectacus>since etch I think
18:28<lja>ive been reading on the internet about it, from what i've gathered the standby stuff in the kernel is a bit of a mess
18:28<lja>but what I cant find it how to do it
18:28<retrospectacus>I've never had a problem with it
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18:29<themill>it's worked quite nicely since sarge.
18:29<retrospectacus>in gnome I do system-shutdown and click Suspend
18:29<retrospectacus>works every time :P
18:29<lja>I dont run gnome sorry :P
18:29<lja>is there a command for it?
18:29<retrospectacus>!tell lja about suspend
18:30<qpr>just an update for anyone here who have heard listened to my problems with a samsun nc10 netbook screen brightness issue, i have updated the kernel to 3.2 from squeeze-backports which has worked very well
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18:30<qpr>so you can label that [solved] :)
18:30<retrospectacus>!congratulate qpr
18:30<dpkg>Huzzah qpr, you did it!
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18:30<qpr>sure did! very happy with that
18:30<lja>oh yeah silly me, pm-suspend seems to work
18:31<qpr>pm-hibernate also works
18:34<lja>ok thanks
18:34<lja>for a normal user to do that, i need to add them to the power group I believe?
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18:37<retrospectacus>powerdev I think
18:37<kop`>vicent: But be sure to install from the debian repos. (See footnote 1 of
18:37<qpr>as far as I know any pm commands need to be as sudo/su - maybe there is a pm group, but I'm not aware of it
18:38<qpr>then again, i'm a rediscovering linux after a 10 year absence from it :)
18:39<alex_>hello, can someone here pls help me conncect an external monitor with my laptop trough displayport
18:39<alex_>xrandr shows the monitor correct
18:39<retrospectacus>alex_: what video card
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18:39<alex_>retrospectacus: radeon
18:40<alex_>VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI M96 [Mobility Radeon HD 4650]
18:41<retrospectacus>sorry I'm a nvidia guy but man xrandr, and what did you try and what happened?
18:41<alex_>first ty for the help
18:41<alex_>well i tried a lot of xorg.conf magic
18:42<alex_>but now my xorg is mostly empty
18:42<alex_>and everything seems to work(xrandr sees the monitor, i can activate it...)
18:43<alex_>the desktop is expanding, its just the monitor stays black
18:44<alex_>it worked with fglrx, but after xserver 1.12 thats no longer possible with this gpu
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18:46<qpr>right, bed time for me. night debians!
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18:51<lja>alex_ is this on a desktop or laptop?
18:51<lja>oh wait yeah laptop
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18:52<lja>does your keyboard have a function key like mine does, for switching between the normal screen, or external screens, or both?
18:53<alex_>it has, but i never used any of them
18:53<lja>might be worth a try
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18:53<lja>I have to use them if I want to use both screens on mine
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18:54<alex_>will try ty
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18:56<lja>did it work?
18:56<alex_>i dont think so
18:56<alex_>button seems to have no effect
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19:00<lja>damn thats a shame
19:00<lja>im not sure tbh
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19:00<alex_>well ty anyway
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19:00<kop`>alex_: Debian stable?
19:00<lja>perhaps you could post this in some amd graphics forum? if there is one. or maybe the X forum
19:01<alex_>its debian sid
19:01<alex_>the x forum will be my next station prob
19:01<kop`>alex_: Then check the bug tracking system. sid breaks.
19:01<kop`>alex_: Also #debian-next for testing/unstable support.
19:01<alex_>already checked bugs.debian
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19:02<alex_>thanks kop!
19:02<alex_>will ask there
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19:22<Rogowski>Could someone help me?
19:22<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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19:24<Rogowski>I'm using debian squeeze. I have a problem when wake up - after sleep, keyboard not work.
19:25<pparadis>Rogowski: what kind of computer are you using?
19:26<Rogowski>Could you be more specific?
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19:26<pparadis>Rogowski: that's what i'm asking you :). it might be helpful if you tell us what specific model of computer you are using.
19:27<Rogowski>It's a Sony Vaio VGN-CS385J notebook.
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19:27<Rogowski>Core 2 Duo; 4 GB ram.
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19:28<Rogowski>I'm using a amd64 architecture.
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19:28<Rogowski>I had this problem when I used Ubuntu 11.10.
19:30<Rogowski>But I had solved it before adding "atkbd.reset" in end of GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet" on /etc/defalt/grub.
19:30<Rogowski>But now, this not work.
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19:33<retrospectacus>Rogowski: did you run "update-grub" and reboot?
19:34*pparadis wonders if this is related to having an i8042 controller, as that keeps coming up in a few google results.
19:36<Rogowski>I'll try to restore my configurations about grub.
19:36<Rogowski>Cause I had installed Windows 7 in dual boot.
19:37<Rogowski>I just noted the problem after do it.
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19:37<lja>never had these problems with grub "legacy"
19:39<Rogowski>I come back if solve the problem.
19:39<Rogowski>Thanks guys.
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19:43<pparadis>if he pops back in any hasn't had any luck, passing "i8042.reset" in his kernel commandline may help.
19:43<pparadis>s/in any/is and/
19:43<pparadis>damnit, s/is and/in and/
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19:44*pparadis is tired :/
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19:58<jvelasquez>any idea which package has the man pages for C system syscall functions like system, exec, etc.. ?
19:58<jvelasquez>ohh wait, is it c-cpp-reference. nvm
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20:01<jvelasquez>ahh, it's manpages-dev
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21:37<kop`>!tell jvelasquez about apt-file
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21:40-!-chris is now known as chris________
21:41<chris________>is there an equivalent to ubuntu-restricted-extras for debian? the package installs flash, java, and all media codecs, and dvd support
21:42<devil>chris________: contrib and non-free?
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21:43<chris________>devil, I think its what its called. So yes
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21:45<ryerke>chris________: you may also need repo
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21:45<chris________>also. What am I doing wrong in this command? 'wget -c*.iso'
21:45<devil>I would be very careful with that
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21:48<pparadis>chris________: first of all, you may want to fix your nick. it has 8 tails. second, wget doesn't grok shell expansion.
21:48-!-chris________ is now known as chris9
21:48<chealer>chris________: you're relying on a syntax which wget doesn't support. plus, you want to download stuff you surely don't need
21:48<scientes>how do i boot a chroot system?
21:49<pparadis>scientes: are you asking how to chroot into a directory on a system?
21:49<scientes>well i've used chroot, but can i use runlevels?
21:49<pparadis>as in a mounted filesystem?
21:50<chris9>I tryed debian last night and really liked it. So I thought Id get the cds made up for future use when I might not have internet available.
21:50<scientes>chris9, you can also use apt-cacher-ng or approx
21:50<scientes>and i recommend dvd if you are going to do that
21:51<scientes>chris9, download the cd/dvd's THROUGH approx/apt-cacher-ng using jigdo
21:51<scientes>apt-get install jigdo-lite
21:52<chris9>scientes, could you walk me through that? Ive used apt-get update, apt-get remove, apt-get install, and apt-get upgrade but have not used apt-catcher-ng
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21:53<scientes>well i guess you just started
21:53<scientes>so it might be a little too complex
21:53<f8l>I used to download images with jigdo through apt-p2p or debtorrent.
21:53*pparadis is not sure that's a good route for chris9
21:53<scientes>i use apt-cacher-ng so that many computers only have to download the same update once
21:54<pparadis>right, but that doesn't seem to fit his use case here.
21:54<pparadis>he's talking about a one time media download.
21:54<pparadis>i do think the DVD images are the best bet, and the way to grab those easiest is a simple series of wgets.
21:54<pparadis>(not using *, it doesn't understand shell expansion)
21:54<chris9>that would be very useful to know how to do but perhaps another day. I set up an entire computer lab of 28 computers at a church using to ubuntu-desktop and will probally convert them to debian in november
21:55<pparadis>that's a great idea :)
21:55<scientes>if you do it in november you might be able to install wheezy
21:56<pparadis>no no no no no do it now, get in the debian choppa if you want to live.
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21:57<chris9>I wasnt aware of debian at the time. Ubuntu seemed to be the most popular so thats what I had went with. After doing some comparisons last night I found that debian had nearly the exact interface as ubuntu 10.04 but used less resources. These were older computers with a pentium processor(dual core) with 512 mb ram
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21:57<pparadis>chris9: fo realz tho, just fire up a screen session and issue the commands to download the ISOs you need in sequence: wget blah.iso ; wget blah2.iso ; wget blah3.iso ; profit
21:58<scientes>well, the "used less resources" is sortof subjective, yes gnome 2 is much better than unity, also iceweasel+iceape in debian use less ram when used together (due to shared libs) than their ubuntu counterparts
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21:58<scientes>but i recommend download the dvds instead of cds if the computers in question support that
21:58<scientes>cause thats alot less cd switching
21:58*pparadis routinely runs gnome2 on a 384 MB VM and actually uses chrome/editors/etc on it without any issues.
21:59<chris9>the catch is that I need to have a windows transformation pack installed
21:59<pparadis>"windows transformation pack"?
21:59<pparadis>is that code for "i need wine?"
21:59<chris9>nope, its a them to look like windows xp or windows 7
22:00<pparadis>oh, roger that, there's plenty of crazy nutty ass winlooky themes for gnome2 and everything else.
22:00<pparadis>make an icon that says "internetz" and point it at $browser.
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22:00<chris9>i assumed since it worked with ubuntu it would work here
22:00<scientes>oh geeze
22:00<scientes>I saw that stanford is running gnome 2
22:01<scientes>and they have a little piece of paper that says "where did the start menu go?"
22:01<pparadis>man, i've seen debian desktops (gnome2) rigged up to look hideously close to win xp. sad but true.
22:02<chris9>I wasnt planning on using the cds at the computer lab. the computer lab has ethernet connection. At home I have access to wireless only. So I am wanting to play it safe and have the dvds incase I need them
22:02<chris9>here it is
22:04<chris9>pparadis, ill be sure to bookmark that for later
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22:07<chris9>Ive been using ssh(configured with visudo and ssh-key) with apache2 webserver to allow shutting down the computers remotely, update/install software, and sending desktop notifications.
22:08<chris9>well it looks like it will take 3 hours to download 1 iso and there are 8 of them...this is going to be awile
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22:11<kop`>chris9: While you wait, here's some references:
22:11<kop`>!tell chris9 about introduction
22:11<scientes>chris9, you can also start them up remotely with wake-on-lan (WOL)
22:11<kop`>!tell chris9 about overview
22:12-!-kop` is now known as kop
22:12<chris9>I did try wol once for several hours but I couldnt get it figured out. I might give it another try
22:13<scientes>chris9, the hardware has to have it turned on
22:13<scientes>and the OS
22:13<scientes>and the BIOS
22:13<scientes>aka, there are mainly reasons it wont work
22:13<chris9>I went to the bios and enabled it
22:13<chris9>what would I need to do to get the os to work?
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22:14<scientes>well i believe the os can disable it
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22:14<chris9>then wouldnt it atleast get to loading the bios(post) and then just hang?
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22:15<scientes>it would just never start up
22:15<kop>chris9: Why is wol helpful?
22:15<chris9>kop, wol would be helpful but I could not get it to work
22:16<kop>chris9: Sometimes we can suggest better ways to do things if we know why.
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22:16<chris9>Its not a big deal but it would save someone the trouble of going to every computer to go to every computer and push the power button.
22:17<chris9>repeated myself a bit there
22:17<kop>chris9: Why do you need them on?
22:17<nevyn>umm the os doesn't need to know about wol
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22:18<scientes>nevyn, then why does windows XP have a setting to disable it?
22:18<nevyn>but magic packet horror
22:18<scientes>and it show up in th "ip" manpage
22:19<chris9>kop, people come on and use them. Every couple of months late at night I update all the software and fix any problems that happened. So not completely needed. Just a way of automating a couple of things
22:19<pparadis>the computers can't just stay on? sitting idle, with their displays sleeping, how much power are they actually consuming?
22:20<kop>chris9: That's what I usually do. Leave them on. Set the bios so they turn on when powered up so they come back up if somebody pulls the plug.
22:20<chris9>they are full pcs. I havent measured power consumption.
22:20<scientes>how do i set up static routes?
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22:20<kop>scientes: Usually using the up/down hooks in the interfaces file.
22:20<pparadis>try measuring it. i run a _lot_ of gear, and power consumption on idle boxes with displays sleeping is negligible, say $3/month/box maybe.
22:21<pparadis>that's a big maybe, too. probably less.
22:21<scientes>kop, so i can do a static without a gateway?
22:21<chris9>one pc might not seem to take up much energy but I bet 28 computers might take up a bit
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22:21<scientes>or with a gateway on a differn't subnet as the ip address
22:21<samuelkadolph>I'm trying to get the volume buttons on my Z205 (usb speakers) working. I can hear sound from them but the volume buttons have no effect. What should I do try to get them to work?
22:22<pparadis>chris9: do the math. i'm telling you a lab of machines that mostly sit idle really aren't consuming what you think they are, unless they're really old boxes.
22:22<kop>scientes: Sure, but you need a default route (aka, gateway) to get out to the world. (You can run a routing protocol.... but)
22:22<scientes>pparadis, oh geeze, labs should be turned off when not in use, period
22:22<pparadis>(or unless some enterprising chap comes in and installs boinc on all of them)
22:22<scientes>kop, i've got dedicated provider, and they use statis routes, and its pretty complicated
22:23<pparadis>scientes: i don't know what kind of labs you've got, but most of the ones i've seen have someone camping them any given hour of the day ;)
22:23<kop>samuelkadolph: I've no clue, but it's possible that a newer kernel from backports would enable more hardware. Or not. YMMV.
22:23<scientes>and i've got to find a way to assign a secondard ip to a virtual machine guest
22:23<pparadis>scientes: are you asking how to assign an ethernet alias?
22:23<scientes>i don't even know what that is
22:24<scientes>but i havn't been able to route packets outside without using nat
22:24<chris9>pparadis, if I remember correctly the bios is 2002 so it would be 10 years old
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22:24<scientes>but i have 5 static ip addresses
22:24<pparadis>an ethernet interface can have more than one IP assigned to it.
22:24<scientes>the host has 5 assigned to it
22:24<scientes>but i need to assign one of those to a kvm GUEST
22:24<scientes>that is bridged to the host ethernet device
22:24<pparadis>it's the same thing.
22:24<scientes>i understand promiscuous mode
22:24<pparadis>no no
22:25<scientes>but thats not it
22:25<chris9>I thought ethernet cards could only have 1 ip...looks like I still have alot to learn
22:25<scientes>anyways, you can respond to multiple ip adresses arp
22:25<pparadis>i'm assuming you have your KVM guest VM running so as to use bridging to the host bridge (say br0)
22:25<scientes>chris9, they can even have multiple MAC addresses
22:25-!-DrKillPatient [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
22:25<scientes>pparadis, br0 or should i use macvtap?
22:26-!-seldon [~seldon@] has joined #debian
22:26<pparadis>just bridge on the host.
22:26<chris9>how would I assign multiple ones and why would you want multiple macs and ips?
22:26-!-DkrTrem0z [~ssdasd@] has joined #debian
22:26<scientes>chris9, apt-get install wireshark
22:26-!-DkrTrem0z [~ssdasd@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:26<pparadis>chris9: you may not want that. if you want that, you'll know why.
22:26<kop>scientes: Anyway, just use the hooks to bring up/down everything you need as the real nic comes up/down.
22:26<scientes>and to answer the other question ip addr add dev eth0
22:26<chris9>ive used wireshark. It says not to run it as root but thats the only way I can get it to work
22:27<scientes>kop, the problem is i dont know what i need cause its kinda complicated i cant just set a gateway
22:27<pparadis>when you bring up an interface (or alias), a gratuitous arp is sent for that.
22:27<scientes>chris9, dpkg-reconfigure wireshark
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22:27<chris9>does this mean that you could have a wireless card connected to multiple wireless networks?
22:28<kop>chris9: Best to run tcpdump with -w to write a capture to a file and then give the file to wireshark.
22:28<pparadis>actually, yes, you could.
22:28<pparadis>scientes: i find it absolutely astonishing that you know about wireshark but do not know what an ethernet alias is :)
22:28<abrotman>people have different knowledge
22:29<pparadis>no no i know, i'm not being a jerk, i'm genuinely perplexed :)
22:29-!-hatoon [] has joined #debian
22:29<scientes>kop, i am using macvtap, and i add the ip address/24 with ip add, and i cant ping the host after that
22:29<pparadis>it's a "how do i get here from there" sort of question i guess
22:29-!-hatoon [] has quit []
22:30<chris9>I originally thought linux was only used for hacking and I had an intrest in hacking. Thats how I first got hooked on linux. The videos that I watched talked about wireshark but did not talk about ethernet aliases
22:30<kop>scientes: Dunno what macvtap is, but at that point I usually use tcpdump and pay attention to arp packets.
22:30<scientes>pparadis, its because ip tools rather than ipconfig, ip addresses are first class citizens, and there is no concept of "primary" and "secondary"
22:30-!-DavoAL [] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
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22:31<pparadis>scientes: but an alias isn't secondary in any sense :)
22:31<scientes>kop, macvtap is a complicated bridging thing that rhel 6 has
22:31<scientes>well thats the way ifconfig does it
22:31<pparadis>well, okay, it's secondary in the sense that it's an _alias_ for an actual interface, but fully functional in the stack.
22:31<scientes>but i dont use that, i have always used ip
22:31<pparadis>sure, ip addr [blah]
22:32<scientes>what tcpdump command will give me only arp?
22:32<scientes>on eth1
22:33<scientes>oh come on
22:33<scientes>just give me the comand
22:33<scientes>oh thar it is
22:33<pparadis>damnitall, you bum :) [root@masq-gw]# tcpdump -ennqti eth0 \( arp or icmp \)
22:33-!-gob_bluth [] has joined #debian
22:34<pparadis>but i didn't modify it for you, you gotta do that! :
22:34<pparadis>:D even
22:34<scientes>i'm not seeing any arp replys
22:34<scientes>even outgoing
22:34<scientes>just the same relevent request over and over, but on the one that should be replying
22:35<pparadis>are you using arping in another terminal?
22:35<scientes>and the arp command shows no cache of the guest
22:35<scientes>ip address
22:35<chealer>!tell scientes about enter
22:35<chris9>whats with the !tell?
22:36<abrotman>chris9: it's a bot command
22:36<scientes>chris9, means dpkg sends a pm
22:36<pparadis>!tell chris9 about life
22:36-!-liegruppe [] has joined #debian
22:36-!-liegruppe is "Felix Lenders" on %#debian-qt-kde #debian-kde #debian
22:36-!-GNUdog [~GNUdog@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:36<abrotman>"meaning of life" is better :)
22:36<pparadis>yeah :)
22:36-!-dous [~dous@] has joined #debian
22:36-!-dous is "Aldous Peñaranda" on #debian-security %#debian-python %#debian-devel #debian-bugs #debian
22:36<chris9>!tell chris9 hitchhikers guide to the galaxy
22:37<abrotman>!tell chris9 about msg the bot
22:37<scientes>i've got tcpdump going Request who-has a tell b; fallowed by who-has b tell a, over and over
22:37<pparadis>scientes: tcpdump -i eth0 arp
22:38<scientes>but they never get it
22:38<pparadis>err, eth1
22:38<pparadis>whatever you're using
22:38-!-jvelasquez [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:38<kop>scientes: Perhaps your bridge is not bridgeing?
22:38<scientes>kop, except i can see the guest requests on the host tcpdump
22:39<chris9>did someone open another channel named dpkg on my xchat?
22:39<scientes>chris9, that is a private message
22:39<pparadis>chris9: yes
22:39<pparadis>dpkg is the bot.
22:39<dpkg>pparadis: I don't know, could you explain it?
22:39<kop>!nice bot
22:39<dpkg>Thanks! Meet me in #debian-offtopic where I can pat _your_ tush?
22:40<abrotman>... except, dpkg isn't there
22:40-!-blair [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
22:40<pparadis>such a tease
22:40-!-NightMonkey [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:41<chris9>I usually used dpkg to install deb files, guess my package manager is wanting to talk to me. Guess debian really does form its own personality. Jl
22:41<pparadis>dpkg is dirty and wrong. you want aptitude or apt-get. for real.
22:41<dpkg>pparadis: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
22:41<pparadis>see? dirty and wrong.
22:42<chris9>ohhh...looks like my computer and I are going to have a great time tonight
22:42<kop>chris9: For details see
22:42*pparadis goes to smoke
22:42-!-anbe [] has joined #debian
22:42-!-anbe is "Andreas Beckmann" on #debian #debian-next #debian-qa #debian-mentors %#debbugs
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22:42-!-Wyzard [] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
22:43-!-felix__ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:43<chris9>ive used aptitude and apt-get...sometimes you just need to get dirty
22:43-!-DragonDon [~DragonDon@] has quit [Quit: I'm outta here]
22:43<kop>chris9: Yes, but it's important to know when you're breaking the rules.
22:43<kop>!ops vyrus001 is link spamming
22:43<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: kop complains about: vyrus001 is link spamming
22:44<abrotman>i'm right here, and is he?
22:45-!-Caroll [~caroll@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:45<abrotman>vyrus001: we have #debian-offtopic for stuff like that, thank you
22:46-!-ukine [] has joined #debian
22:46<vyrus001>abrotman: yea i know, i ment to paste in a different window
22:46<vyrus001>my bad
22:46<abrotman>thought so :)
22:47<kop>vyrus001: My bad too. I'm easily annoyed.
22:47<abrotman>kop: my RHEL won't install debian packages!!!
22:47<Hydroxide>abrotman: ubuntu
22:47<kop>abrotman: Quick! Install Ubuntu instead.
22:47<vyrus001>kop: np
22:47*Hydroxide grins at kop
22:47<vyrus001>ew... somebody said ubuntu
22:48*vyrus001 burns off his first layer of skin
22:48*abrotman looks at Hydroxide and kop and wonders why they didn't suggest freebsd
22:48<pparadis>D: D: D:
22:48-!-fluggo [] has joined #debian
22:48<Hydroxide>abrotman: if FreeBSD starts defaulting IRC clients to here, maybe I will :) [note, that is NOT a suggestion]
22:48*pparadis goes to get a damn drink because of that
22:48<kop>abrotman: Perhaps better to send them into the lion's den and recommend OpenBSD?
22:49<chris9>found a way do download all those isos without typing them all out. 'for((x=1;x<=8;x++)); do wget -c"$x".iso; done'
22:49<abrotman>dpkg: tell kop about kfreebsd
22:49*abrotman hides
22:51-!-s4a [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:53<kop>chris9: wget -c{1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8}.iso; It's brute force, but works.
22:53<abrotman>and sort of wasteful
22:54<kop>abrotman: ?
22:54<abrotman>do you really need all 8 DVDs ?
22:54<kop>abrotman: Oh, the bandwidth. I'm not sure it's useful for him to have all 8 either, but he seems comfortable....
22:54<kop>abrotman: Offline-o-phobia.
22:55<kop>abrotman: (But he's not got anything now so jigdo won't help.)
22:56<pparadis>kop: oh, so it's bash golf, is it?
22:56<abrotman>how is jigdo not for offline ?
22:56<pparadis>for N in {1..8};do wget -c$N.iso;done
22:56<kop>pparadis: Posix.
22:57<pparadis>kop: use a real shell.
22:57*pparadis runs
22:57<scientes>so how do i statically route all traffix through X ip address?
22:57<chris9>Ive been working on getting that for statement to work nearly the entire time
22:57<kop>scientes: setup a route with a mask of
22:57-!-HaX [] has joined #debian
22:58<scientes>ip route add via src dev eth0
22:58<scientes>didn't work
22:58<kop>abrotman: I thought jigdo was for updating images you've already got. He has none.
22:58<HaX>A lot of people XD
22:58-!-ukine [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:58<scientes>i get RTNETLINK answers: No such process
22:58<HaX>Anywayz, anyone wanna lead me in the direction that I wanna program hardcore with C++ in Debain???
22:58<abrotman>kop: yes and no .. it can create the first set, and then update them more easily
22:59<HaX>Like, I want to use G++.
22:59<abrotman>HaX: there's a BTS full of issues
22:59-!-fluggo [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:59<abrotman>!tell HaX about rc bugs
22:59<scientes>HaX, apt-get install build-essential gdb eglibc-source
22:59<scientes>etc etc
22:59<kop>abrotman: Ah. So it's better to start with jigdo from the get-go. (In his case I think he's not going to be using them on a ongoing basis.) Good to know.
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23:00<pparadis>have fun.
23:00<chris9>im assuming I can boot debian in live mode...I dont remember if it had the option. I might just boot up with the first cd to see if it gets wireless.
23:00<kop>scientes: I'm old and braindead and still use "route". Perhaps there's already a default route or 'ip' needs the word "default" instead of
23:00<jchen>yes that book is amazing
23:01-!-mullre is now known as mullein
23:01<HaX>Ok, question, yes I'm a little stupid but does it all go through C++ or C???
23:01<kop>chris9: You can run the installer. There's some limits on it's wireless ability (no wep?). I forget.
23:01<pparadis>route -n ; sleep 5 ; man route
23:01<HaX>Like, I've been looking for resoruces such as documentation to learn about C++.
23:02<HaX>I want to step into remodifying my whole Android OS.
23:02<pparadis>HaX: google is a fantastic resource for learning about C++.
23:02<HaX>Well, the latest so it can actually work.
23:02<sney>isn't there a with a load of tutorials
23:02<sney>yes, there is
23:02<chris9>wep is the really bad security right?
23:03<pparadis>the nonexistent security.
23:03-!-nicholi [] has joined #debian
23:03<sney>the security you may as well just turn off
23:03<kop>HaX: And isn't android linux, and so written in C?
23:03<HaX>Actually, C++ I think.
23:03<pparadis>there's a reason i mentioned understanding C.
23:03<HaX>Ok, what exactly are the differences???
23:03<sney>android uses the linux kernel which is written in C, but I think the interface etc are more OOP
23:03<pparadis>learn C and you'll understand that.
23:04<HaX>Ok, ok
23:04<pparadis>this sort of thing really belongs in #debian-offtopic though
23:04<chris9>ahh I should be fine with the on wep option. I might want to see if I can crack some wep networks. Is it just the live cd that I cant use wep or is it the debian?
23:04<HaX>XML I think the interdaces are.
23:04<kop>HaX: That's offtopic here. You could take it to #debian-offtopic, or there's various channels on
23:04<sney>HaX, is the difference between C and C++.
23:04<HaX>Alrighty kop
23:04-!-Gerowen [~Gerowen@] has joined #debian
23:05<kop>chris9: Just the installer. But I don't recall just what it is that does not work and could be wrong about wep being it.
23:05<Gerowen>Question, when I installed Debian, I mistakenly told it that my system clock was set to UTC, but it is set to local time, how do I change that option?
23:05<sney>dpkg-reconfigure tzdata
23:06<kop>Gerowen: (or /etc/default/rcS)
23:06<HaX>Thank you everyone for the help :)
23:06<Gerowen>sney: All that did was ask what time zone I was in.
23:07<Gerowen>kop: Thanks, so changing "UTC" to "no" should fix it I'm guessing.
23:07-!-aranax [~aranax@] has joined #debian
23:07<kop>Gerowen: dpkg-reconfigure may need an option to get it to be more chatty.
23:07<kop>Gerowen: yes, but it only "takes" on boot.
23:07<chris9>which is better wireless security aes or tkip?
23:08-!-debsan_ [~debsan@] has joined #debian
23:09<sney>in my lunatic opinion, forgo encryption and set up your dhcp server with a mac filter that puts unauthorized devices on a vlan with no internet access. and redirect all their traffic to a single hilarious page of your choosing
23:09<pparadis>sney: lemon party
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23:10*kop leaves the wireless open and runs a vpn when I want security.
23:11*pparadis does horrible things on kop's wireless and waits for the po-po to bust his door down.
23:12<kop>pparadis: You don't get yummy stuff from your neighbors every Christamas either, do you?
23:12<pparadis>depends on what you call yummy.
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23:12<scientes>can anyone pm me their ip and let me know if they get my pings?
23:12-!-kaje [~~@] has joined #debian
23:12<scientes>even if i cant recieve the responses
23:12<pparadis>that's right, public and crap.
23:13-!-rtr [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
23:13<pparadis>actually, hang on
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23:13<pparadis>scientes: yup
23:13<scientes>ok i started sending
23:13<pparadis>scientes: receiving
23:13<scientes>oh wow
23:14<scientes>so i have out-going only
23:14<kop>scientes: Really, it's easier to use tcpdump to tell what's happening.
23:14<pparadis>that it is.
23:14<scientes>kop, yeah i say it on the host
23:14<scientes>but i wanted to verify packets were making it past the LAN
23:14<scientes>means their static routes have mac address tied to them maybe?
23:14<scientes>to prevent customer from stealing other's services?
23:15<scientes>who knows
23:15<pparadis>do you have ebtables or iptables rules in place on the host?
23:15<chris9>couldnt you just ping google then?
23:15<chris9>ping -c 1
23:15<scientes>chris9, i can't get pings back
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23:15<scientes>only outgoing
23:15<pparadis>good point, if you're not getting replies from google, it's probably not google's fault.
23:16<scientes>pparadis, how would i check?
23:17<scientes>ip route output looks fairly sane
23:17<pparadis>you would list rules for both.
23:17<pparadis>no, i'm not giving you commands. :)
23:18<scientes>pparadis, so the pings just stoppd right?
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---Logclosed Thu Jun 07 00:00:11 2012