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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-06-07

---Logopened Thu Jun 07 00:00:11 2012
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00:34<scientes>how do i automatically attach strace to childs of X process?
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00:34<scientes>found it
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00:44*scientes just segfaulted pid 1 with gdb :P
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00:49<coreyb>!tell Ganneff about ubuntu
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01:09<phillip>does anyone know about wicd
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01:26<Django>can you give me a website to download a debian iso?
01:28<ajedwards>please remember google is your friend etc.
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01:47<Django>What Does Debian GNU/Linux DOes Exactly? Will It Affect my 12.04 OS IN ANy Way?
01:47<Django>(Dual Boot)
01:50<zorbs>Django: You're going to have to set-up a dual boot to be able to run both Operating Systems.
01:53<Django>I see...and by any chances do you happen to have some screenshoots?
01:53<Django>or a link that has them? =D
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01:53<zorbs>screen shots? of gnome?
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01:54<zorbs>or kde, or whatever windows manager you're using, screen shots can vary widely.
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02:21<zorbs>Django: aptitude is a great tool.
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03:03<budhi>anyone know how to add new information calendar?
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03:20<coreyb>does calender sync with google?
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05:02<testing8358>I just installed KDE onto my debian and I logged in and now inside X it will not accept my root password
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05:04<perlwizard>use a non-root user
05:04<testing8358>correct my daily account
05:04<testing8358>is what im using I cant su
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05:06<perlwizard>testing8358 what's the error message?
05:06<perlwizard>is the password correct ?
05:06<testing8358>in term authentication failed perlwizard
05:07<testing8358>indeed im positive it is I use it all day, I logged into my session with it and I use it to su all day long in gnome
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05:10<testing8358>I was trying to open synaptic and it wouldn't let me SU privilege it, so I switched to term to su to verify and it echo'ed the auth failed
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05:11<SynrG>testing8358: which debian release?
05:11<testing8358>but it does work for sudo apt-get i just tried it
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05:12<testing8358>SynrG, it is actually the latest crunchbang so 3.6 kernel, but I couldn't stand openbox so I just installed kde-core
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05:12<perlwizard>I knew it sounded wrong
05:12<dpkg>CrunchBang Linux is a Live CD distribution originally based on <Ubuntu>, now based on Debian as of version 10, featuring the <Openbox> window manager. It is not supported in #debian. #crunchbang on See <based on debian>.
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05:13<testing8358>That channel is a bunch of 12year olds :-/
05:13<SynrG>sad, but not our problem :/
05:13<perlwizard>this channel is a bunch of debian users
05:14<themill>perhaps the availability of support should be part of your decision making process when choosing a distro then
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05:14<testing8358>according the crunchbang they said its the exact same kernel just with different session manager
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05:15<perlwizard>sounds like 12 year olds know what they're talking about. why don't you ask them about your kde issue ?
05:16<testing8358>themill, it was, spent a while asking around had good reviews on #! and found the gnu website frustrating so just chose to change to #! but not happy with the X So, #! said its the same now as the gnu release just different Xserver.
05:17<testing8358>perlwizard, bc they are all happy with openbox and this is debian+kde by default thus I came here
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05:17<afuentes>is there a way to install only the dependeces of a package?
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05:17<perlwizard>testing8358 it's still not supported here though
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05:18<afuentes>no the build dependences, but the binary dependnces
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05:18<themill>afuentes: build-deps are never installed unless you specifically ask for them
05:18<SynrG>afuentes: i would just install the package and then uninstall it without doing autoremovals
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05:19<testing8358>perlwizard, ill go else where then, but that doesn't speak well of encouraging to reinstall with "debian gnu" IMHO, Maybe steer over to arch
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05:20<SynrG>testing8358: not following your logic
05:20<themill>testing8358: it's really very simple -- we support debian here. We don't support other distros. As you can see, plenty of other people who are running debian are getting help in this channel.
05:20<afuentes>themill, i know, i just said that because i know there is a way to install build-deps, but i didnt heard of binary deps :)
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05:20<perlwizard>testing8358 good luck with arch support btw
05:20<perlwizard>you'll need it.
05:21<themill>afuentes: apt always installs the binary dependencies of the packages you ask for. That's its job
05:21<afuentes>SynrG, well, the installation is going to trigger some scripts i would rather not
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05:21<afuentes>i can copy paste the deps list, but i just wondered if there was an automatic way
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05:21<SynrG>themill: *only* the dependencies, and not the package itself, as i understand it
05:21<themill>afuentes: what are you really trying to do here... SynrG and I seem to be answering different questions
05:21<afuentes>yup, SynrG got it right
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05:22<afuentes>im trying to install only deps of a package, since im installing the program outside of debian, but is asking about deps all the time
05:22<afuentes>installing FROM upstream, rather tan from repository i mean
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05:23<SynrG>afuentes: a better way is to make an own package based on new upstream source
05:23<themill>afuentes: what will you gain by doing that? there are probably easier ways
05:23<SynrG>there is no guarantee, otherwise, that your upstream-compiled package will continue to work as you upgrade the system
05:23<afuentes>themill i gain being able to install one specific version i need
05:23<SynrG>as i said, making your own package is a superior solution
05:24<afuentes>yup i know, i do know to test an specific version
05:24<themill>afuentes: what package is this btw?
05:24<afuentes>i need to install a rather old version
05:24<themill>eek. fun for all
05:24<SynrG>yeah. not the sort of fun *i* enjoy
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05:24<harbinger>.йгщеу сщвузфпу геа-8
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05:27<themill>afuentes: aptitude install $(apt-get -s -y install moodle|awk '/Inst/ {print $2}') <- there's probably a nicer aptitude search pattern that would work, but I can't figure it out right now...
05:27<SynrG>or grep-aptavail
05:28<SynrG>no, i take that back
05:29<SynrG>as grep-aptavail would feed you, in some cases, lists of alternatives, and you probably don't want that
05:29<themill>yeah, dealing with , and | is what we're trying to avoid
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05:29<afuentes>wow, i see its rather complex
05:29<SynrG>or just apt-get install moodle but when it confirms to install, don't
05:29<themill>it's not *that* bad!
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05:30<SynrG>then cut-and-paste the things it was going to install
05:30<afuentes>i was expecting an obscure, one switch option
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05:30<SynrG>afuentes: it is not a normal operation and therefore undesirable to support in such a fashion
05:30<SynrG>there is no valid use case that i can see that wouldn't be better handled in some other fashion
05:31<afuentes>well, how about installing from upstream for some testing?
05:31<afuentes>is that a good use case?
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05:32<themill>SynrG: I had hoped that "aptitude search '?reverse-depends(moodle)'" would work, but that selects all packages that provide httpd etc :(
05:32<SynrG>not particularly, as installing from upstream may very well have *different* dependencies from the debian package
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05:32<themill>most upstreams that I deal with tell you "For Debian, aptitude install foo bar baz".
05:33<SynrG>afuentes: have a look at any debian package that doesn't merely accept the default ./configure options
05:33<SynrG>or that will install different things by default with ./configure depending on what is present in your build environment
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05:33<afuentes>i see
05:34<SynrG>examining the debian package to see what it does is often necessary to get an upstream build the closely matches the debian build
05:34<afuentes>im rather new packaging tho
05:34<SynrG>and if you're going to go to all that bother, may as just build a new debian package from the specific upstream source you want
05:37<afuentes>ok, how about this... is there a way to output the dependencies of a package in a fashion apt-get install understands?
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05:38<testing8358>sudo su -> passwd ->set solved it
05:39<afuentes>testing8358, sudo -i
05:40<afuentes>oh, not really know what were you looking after, sorry
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05:58<JackShephard>hi, i installed gnome-desktop-environment in debian squeeze where i have kde.. if i will install compiz i broken kwin or kde desktop effects?
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06:00<testing8358>JackShephard, if you install compiz and configure compiz-settings-manager with compiz-core in gnome it wont effect the kde unless you run compizfusion in your startup script.
06:04<JackShephard>testing8358 i don't understund
06:05<testing8358>JackShephard, compiz has a few parts. Lets say you install it and configure it using the settings-manager package, it requires a start up command. As long as that script is not in KDE it wont effect the KDE environment effects.
06:06<JackShephard>What happens without the startup command
06:06<testing8358>compiz just simply wont run
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06:07<themill>I can't imagine why you'd want to replace an excellent window manager like kwin with compiz.
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06:08<testing8358>themill, its not the manager just special effects
06:08<testing8358>JackShephard, id give you the commands I used in a shell script, but I cant access my NAS yet, fresh install sorry.
06:10<themill>testing8358: umm... compiz is most definitely a window manager and would be replacing kwin were you to use it.
06:11<testing8358>themill, he is using gnome
06:11<themill>in which case compiz will replace metacity as the window manager.
06:12<JackShephard>themill i want gnome sessions wiht compiz e kde with kwin, without interference
06:12<testing8358>Not in a themed manner though, it keeps the look unlike say wmfs and adds effects. Kinda more seamless IMO
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06:13<testing8358>right JackShephard just make sure in the startup their is not a script for compiz in KDE
06:13<themill>testing8358: compiz. is. a. different. window. manager.
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06:15<testing8358>it is a type of window manager management, maybe u get what im saying maybe not. I dont consider it a full blown replacement manager bc it does not theme and change the window itself.
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06:25<SynrG>huh? wikipedia: "Compiz is a compositing window manager for the X Window System, using 3D graphics hardware to create fast compositing desktop effects for window management. ..."
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06:26*SynrG shrugs ... will stop worrying that "someone on the Internet is wrong" ;)
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06:39<alex123456alex> i have trouble connecting a monitor over displayport (connecting it with vga works)
06:40<alex123456alex>sorry was meant for debian-next
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07:04<madtux>morning to everyone
07:04<madtux>sorry guys just a quick one
07:04<madtux>I got a fresh debian 6.0.5 on a server
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07:05<madtux>I checked for open port and I've discovered that the prt for irc are open
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07:05<madtux>but I don't have any kind of packages related to irc
07:05<madtux>someone could tell me way and how close those ports?
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07:07<admint>first you must know what program use these ports. Try netstat -tpan
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07:12<msch>hi, not sure if that's the right place to ask, i'm running "ps aux" as root and am getting uids instead of user names for some users. these users can (and are) logged in without issues. any ideas what's going on?
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07:16<alex123456alex>msch: can you poste it on paste.debian?
07:16<SynrG>not to be alarmist, but if you didn't specifically ask to install an irc server, i would be ... concerned ... to find irc server ports open on my freshly installed server
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07:18<msch>alex123456alex: here you go,
07:19<msch>SynrG: not sure about "open", but i've seen ISPs that "open" the samba and irc ports and just DROP all packets that arrive. to stymie scans i guess
07:20<alex123456alex>msch: also pls paste /etc/passwd (only of course if you use shadow passwords)
07:21<SynrG>msch: dunno where madtux was scanning from, inside or outside of the host itself
07:21<msch>alex123456alex: are there really people that don't use shadow passwords? why is that even still an option in the installer?
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07:21<madtux>Iwas scanning outsidee the host
07:22<nevyn>msch: don't work with NIS
07:22<alex123456alex>msch: well asking just to be safe - i hope not
07:22<nevyn>msch: not that that's an excuse really...
07:23<msch>nevyn: people are still using NIS? :) (although i don't know, are there modern alternatives like ActiveDirectory in the windows world?)
07:24<JackShephard>I do not understand kde goes great with the effects of kwin, gnome without a composite manager is scarce. If I install compiz, then I have no problems with kwin. interferes with the kde desktop effects?
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07:24<nevyn>msch: that's what we use
07:24*nevyn remains unsure about the value of quest.
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07:26<alex123456alex>msch: it could be that the problematic users are longer then 8 charaters?
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07:26<msch>alex123456alex: names are debian-tor and dashboard so yeah
07:26<alex123456alex>msch: and i think some versions of ps dont resolve those
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07:27<msch>alex123456alex: ok, that makes sense. thanks! i was seriously wondering what was going on. it's interesting because i have another server with an older ubuntu where ps resolves debian-tor
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07:27<alex123456alex>msch: just test it with a new account?
07:28<msch>alex123456alex: what do you mean? create another account with > 8 chars and one with == 8 and one with < 8 and then see what happens?
07:28<alex123456alex>msch: exactly
07:28<alex123456alex>msch: what version of ps are you using
07:30<msch>alex123456alex: procps version 3.2.8 (that has the 8 char limit) and procps version 3.2.7 (that doesn't have it)
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07:31<msch>alex123456alex: thanks :)
07:32<alex123456alex>msch: your welcome
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08:03<anudaasa>helou, can someone help, how to give graphic driver to ubuntu ?
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08:05<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu ( instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
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08:52<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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09:06<ayaka>how to only upgrade one software, I don't want to upgrade all in aptitude
09:07<ichdasich>aptitude update $software
09:07<ichdasich>will update that specific software and the dependencies, iirc
09:08<ayaka>but I want to get all update info, but I upgrade software, I only want upgrade one
09:09<themill>aptitude update; aptitude upgrade $package
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09:10<ichdasich>argh, yes... upgrade. m-(
09:10<ayaka>I see
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09:10<ayaka>I shall read documents more carefully
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09:11<ichdasich>and i should only awnser questions when i am fully awake.
09:11<ayaka>themill ichdasich thank you
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09:43<ayr>hi all. is dd a good command in debian to use to test disk I/O performance ?
09:44<gdb>ayr: Sequential performance, yes, which isn't really that useful uless the drive is being used for media (streaming movies, music, etc). dd won't be able to tell you random access I/O performance.
09:44<gdb>I'm not saying I can offer a solution, only that dd isn't it. ;-)
09:44<ayr>gdb: which is a good command to test random access I/O ? bonnie++ ?
09:45<ayr>the box is a samba fileserver so a measure of sequential access performance is no bad thing in itself.
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09:47<ayr>pparadis: kewlios. tnx
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10:09<themill>!ubuntu-es Guest3047
10:09<dpkg>Guest3047: Ubuntu esta basado en Debian, pero no es Debian, y dificilmente tendra los estandares de Debian. Solo Debian es soportado en #debian. Por favor conectese a #ubuntu-es en Ahi recibira mas soporte.
10:10<Guest3047>ola :)
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11:16<zhang>what are y
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11:27<masterneo>how would I add 'sudo /etc/init.d/vboxdrv start' to startup for all users?
11:28<Sevet>masterneo: do you mean how to get that started at boot? update-rc.d vboxdrv defaults
11:29<gdb>The virtualbox driver should start at boot out of the box, assuming it's installed using the VBoxLinuxAdditions.bin script.
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11:30<masterneo>update-rc.d: using dependency based boot sequencing
11:30<masterneo>insserv: script vboxdrv: service vboxdrv already provided!
11:30<masterneo>insserv: exiting now!
11:30<masterneo>update-rc.d: error: insserv rejected the script header
11:30-!-masterneo was kicked from #debian by debhelper [use or /msg dpkg paste]
11:30<gdb>masterneo: Have you checked lsmod and ps -ef and verified vbox support isn't loaded already? It should be there.
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11:32<masterneo>the irc didnt like that paste of 4 lines
11:32<gdb>masterneo: Have you checked lsmod and ps -ef and verified vbox support isn't loaded already? It should be there.
11:33<masterneo>gdb, should I reboot first? Ive already ran '/etc/init.d/vboxdrv start'
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11:34<gdb>masterneo: No, just run lsmod and look for "vbox" and run ps -ef and look for VBoxService I think it's called.
11:35<masterneo>gdb, 'lsmod | grep vbox' returned nothing
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11:35<gdb>How did you install the guest additions?
11:35<masterneo>gdb, ps-ef | grep VBox returned master 2993 2941 0 10:35 pts/0 00:00:00 grep VBox
11:36<masterneo>I downloaded the deb file and did something like 'gdebi virtualbox4.1.deb'
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11:37<themill>alternatively you could use the vbox packages that are already in debian and work.
11:37<gdb>masterneo: <-- this is what you should see (yes, this is Fedora, the same applies to Debian).
11:37<gdb>Or what themill said.
11:37<masterneo>the one debian had was the ose version and didnt offer usb support
11:38<gdb>My host OS is OS X so I don't use the Debian packages. Are you using vbox off the vbox website or the Debian packages? And what is your host OS?
11:38<Sevet>4.1 does work, and vboxdrv should start on boot. have you tried rebooting?
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11:39<masterneo>gdb, I must have something setup incorrectly because I dont get any output
11:39<mwalling>your grep... use grep -i`
11:39<mwalling>er, `grep -i`
11:39<masterneo>lsmod | grep -i vbox returns nothing
11:39<mwalling>your ps
11:39<masterneo>I have tryed rebooting
11:40<mwalling>the one where you grepped for "VBox", not "vbox"
11:40<gdb>The process is VBoxService so VBox should pick it up.
11:40<mwalling>gdb: "in theory"
11:40<gdb>(Unless he's using Debian packages and it's been changed in them, that I don't know.)
11:40<masterneo>'ps -ef | grep -i VBox' returns 'master 3050 2941 0 10:40 pts/0 00:00:00 grep -i VBox'
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11:40<jchoul>hello, i need help with terminal , the command "clear" does scroll down and all terminal previous text is still visible by scrolling , is there any command which can clear all previous lines, text of terminal like we have new terminal
11:41<Sevet>4.1 does use VBox
11:41<masterneo>try reset
11:41<gdb>masterneo: How did you install the guest additions? What method did you use?
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11:41<gdb>jchoul: That's terminal dependent. You can probably work around that but setting your scrollback size to 0 in whatever terminal utility you're using.
11:41<Sevet>masterneo: are we talking about starting vboxdrv on the host or on the guest?
11:42<babilen>masterneo: You have several options: 1. Use the vbox installation you have right now and ask #vbox on for help. 2. Use vbox from squeeze-backports and install the closed source extension pack (cf. "/msg dpkg vbox-ose vs vbox") 3. Use a different virtualisation platform that is working such as virt-manager/kvm.
11:42<masterneo>Sevet, the host
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11:43<Sevet>if you run '/etc/init.d/vboxdrv start' does lsmod | grep vbox then show anything?
11:43<masterneo>babilen, When I use kvm the guest os's mouse is very sensitive.
11:43<Sevet>and if not is there anything in dmesg
11:43<jchoul>gdb, will that workaround work?
11:43<babilen>masterneo: I never had that problem -- Has that bug/problem been reported somewhere? Can't you change the settings in the guest OS?
11:44<masterneo>modprobe vboxdrv failed. Please use 'dmesg' to find out why ... failed
11:44<Sevet>and dmesg shows?
11:44<masterneo>dmesg has lots of output
11:44<masterneo>the last line says '[ 299.129238] warning: `VirtualBox' uses 32-bit capabilities (legacy support in use)'
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11:45<Sevet>have you installed the 32bit package on a 64bit host?
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11:45<masterneo>I have a 64 bit host and the guest is a 32 bit WindowsXP
11:45<masterneo>is this a problem?
11:46<Sevet>i said 32bit *package*
11:46<gdb>jchoul: If your terminal has no scrollback history, then there won't be anything to display after running 'clear'. 'clear' will clear what's part of the "active terminal window" itself, not the history maintained by your terminal utility. It's not very intuitive, but they're independent of each other. That's why you see the behavior you're getting.
11:46*babilen still recommends #vbox on or option 2/3
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11:46<masterneo>hey I guess I did...that was foolish of me
11:47<gdb>Regardless of the bit size of the guest, the hypervisor bit size must match the host operating system.
11:47<Sevet>i said 32bit *package*
11:47<Sevet>yea, can't load a 32bit driver in 64bit kernel :)
11:48<Sevet>sorry, didn't mean to hit [Up
11:48<Sevet>sorry, didn't mean to hit [Up][Enter]
11:48<Sevet>damnit keyboard *glare*
11:48<masterneo>dpkg --list | grep virtualbox shows 'ii virtualbox-4.1 4.1.16-78094~Ubuntu~hardy Oracle VM VirtualBox' along with 32 but virtualbox-ose virtualbox-ose-qt
11:48<dpkg>masterneo: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request
11:48<jchoul>gdb: setting TERM might actually do a difference. like TERM=vt102 clear ???
11:48<themill>masterneo: so is this even a debian box?
11:49<themill>masterneo: so why are you installing packages on it that clearly aren't designed for debian?
11:49<pparadis>masterneo: can you please pastebin your /etc/apt/sources.list ?
11:49<masterneo>I dont know, I just followed a tortoral
11:49<Sevet>masterneo: use
11:49<themill>there's an awful lot of crap out there on the web... you need to learn how to work out what's crap and what's not
11:49<Sevet>there are repositories there to use with apt-get too
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11:50<pparadis>masterneo: yeah, where did you get that package? you really can't do that.
11:50<babilen>masterneo: You can, quite easily, install virtualbox from Debian (Option 2 earlier). The problem you are facing right now really has nothing to do with Debian and I would recommend to either use our packages *or* take it to #vbox.
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11:50<babilen>,virtualbox --release squeeze-backports
11:50<themill>masterneo: what's the output of "dpkg --print-architecture; uname -r"
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11:51<babilen>+ → VirtualBox 4.0.16 Extension Pack
11:51<babilen>,v virtualbox --release squeeze-backports
11:51<judd>Package: virtualbox on i386 -- squeeze-backports: 4.0.10-dfsg-1~bpo60+1
11:51<masterneo>WARNING: The vboxdrv kernel module is not loaded.
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11:52<masterneo>so I need to uninstall the virtualbox I have an install another one...Is that what Im hearing?
11:52<themill>masterneo: what's the output of "dpkg --print-architecture; uname -r"
11:52<masterneo>amd64, 2.6.32-5-amd64
11:53<masterneo>okay. I now ran 'sudo apt-get -y remove virtualbox*'
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11:54*themill notes that apt doesn't do globbing
11:55<masterneo>after running 'dpkg --list | grep virtualbox' I found virtualbox-4.1, virtualbox-ose, virtualbox-ose-qt is still installed
11:55*babilen hands masterneo a "aptitude purge '~i~n^virtualbox'"
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11:56<themill>masterneo: please use a pastebin. Your prefiltering of the output makes it impossible to follow.
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11:57<masterneo>looks like dpkg --list | grep virtualbox was removed once I added --purge
11:59<masterneo>so now Im assuming I need to download 'Debian 7.0 ("Wheezy") AMD64'
11:59<pparadis>whoa, what?
11:59<pparadis>you're using debian squeeze.
11:59<themill>masterneo: since when were you running wheezy? And why aren't you using the packages already in debian?
12:00<pparadis>masterneo: right, the packages are already in the repositories.
12:00<pparadis>apt-cache search virtualbox
12:00<masterneo>so I should use apt-get to install virtualbox
12:01<pparadis>you probably want virtualbox-ose and virtualbox-ose-qt
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12:02<masterneo>so I need to do 'sudo apt-get -y install virtualbox-ose virtualbox-ose-qt'
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12:02<themill>You might want "virtualbox" from squeeze-backports instead. Depends on how keen you are for newer vresions.
12:02<pparadis>masterneo: did you see the note right before your pastebin post? also, sorry if i missed the answer, but were you using KVM before but saying the guest mouse sensitivity was too high?
12:03<themill>masterneo: stop giving apt "-y" all the time. The idea is that you look at what it is planning to do and decide if it's sensible.
12:04<masterneo>there was that, the resolution only supported 4:3 ratios
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12:08<masterneo>what does virtualbox-ose-qt do?
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12:09<towo`>it draw the gui
12:09<pparadis>masterneo: apt-cache show virtualbox-ose-qt
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12:13<masterneo>looks like you all got it working. Ill reboot and let you know
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12:14<ratnick>what's the improvement of 6.0.5 over 6.0.4?
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12:15<TobiX>ratnick: All recent security updates, plus everything listed on:
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12:15<ratnick>thanks again
12:16<masterneo>yep. Its fixed thanks for all your advice. Ill be sure to check if the tortorials are for debian and not for ubuntu
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13:13<AlexLikeRock>buenos dias gente :-)
13:14<dpkg>Este canal es de ayuda con ordenadores en Ingles. Si no necesitas ayuda con tu ordenador por favor ingresa al canal social de #debian-es con /join #debian-es-cachondeo. Tus amigos probablemente ya esten ahi.
13:15<AlexLikeRock>maulkin tanks, i now, i now
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13:39<onosendi>Anyone here?
13:39<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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13:40<onosendi>Mint's forums and irc channels are useless. Can someone please point me in the direction to get help with lmde xfce?
13:40<dpkg>Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at or join #linuxmint-help on for support. Linux Mint is variously based on <Ubuntu> with a "Linux Mint Debian Edition" (LMDE) also available, based on <testing>. See also <based on debian>, <mintppc>.
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13:40<pparadis>(with the understanding that they may indeed suck, as you've indicated)
13:41<onosendi>So. I leave Ubuntu for numerous reasons, and use mint debian. Mint's community his a joke, and now I get turned away? cool.
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13:41*pparadis was going to recommend installing... debian.
13:42<AlexLikeRock>just ask about your problem
13:42<pparadis>AlexLikeRock: mint is offtopic for this channel. he's totally free to install debian. in any event, he left the channel.
13:44<AlexLikeRock>you can not help someone if you do not use debian?
13:45<retrospectacus>if *they* do not use debian, then no, not here anyway
13:45<pparadis>you can help them, sure. that just off-topic for this channel. mint, ubuntu, etc are indeed not debian, and seriously depart from debian in many ways.
13:45<pparadis>s/that just/that's just/
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13:48<lorenzo>ma che suzzu!
13:48<pparadis>AlexLikeRock: here's a bad car analogy. if i'm an auto manufacturer and you obtain a car from me, but then modify tons of stuff on it, i can't be expected to support your modified ride.
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13:48<AlexLikeRock>But are not we here to help? regardless of the distro that has...
13:48<retrospectacus>no. Debian only.
13:48<pparadis>no, we're not here to help other distros. that would be the point of other communities and other channels that support those things.
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13:49<retrospectacus>if you want to help with another distro go to their channel. If you want to help with all distros go to ##linux
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13:49<AlexLikeRock>i understand
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13:50<pparadis>AlexLikeRock: it's not intended to me mean. it's intended in the "do one thing and do it well" sense. having #debian support just debian means the ability to provide quality support and a good S/N ratio.
13:51<simonlnu>(some people take it badly, some others *deliver* the message badly)
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13:52<simonlnu>taking it persoanlly is pointless. there's more important things to get outraged about....
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13:54<pparadis>simonlnu: indeed. i was in the middle of basically typing "we would love to help you, but only if you're running debian. if you need help instal..." but well, the gentleman left.
13:55<pparadis>which is okay i guess.
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13:55<simonlnu>yeh, too bad really, for him/her
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14:34<D3V3FF3CT>So, how do I get pribliges necessary with root???
14:34-!-led_belly [] has joined #debian
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14:34<D3V3FF3CT>Like, in Ubuntu, it's sudo whatever, how would I do that with Debain???
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14:37<pparadis>D3V3FF3CT: you can either install sudo (if it isn't already installed), or use su.
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14:38<D3V3FF3CT>vmaule212@debian:~/Desktop$ su apt-get vim
14:38<D3V3FF3CT>Unknown id: apt-get
14:38<D3V3FF3CT>vmaule212@debian:~/Desktop$ su apt-get vim
14:38<retrospectacus>su <enter>
14:38<retrospectacus>apt-get install vim
14:38<daemonkeeper>Or su -c apt-get install vim
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14:39<D3V3FF3CT>Whats the -c for???
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14:39<daemonkeeper>man su
14:39<retrospectacus>D3V3FF3CT: command
14:39<AlexLikeRock>su <ENTER>
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14:39<D3V3FF3CT>Ok, that daemonkeeper, anyways....
14:40<D3V3FF3CT>Than you retrospectacus & AlexLikeRock :)
14:40<pparadis>D3V3FF3CT: i think daemonkeeper is trying to help you understand that issuing commands without understanding what they do is not good. this is why man pages are good.
14:41<D3V3FF3CT>He was, I forgot about man pages -_-
14:41-!-swex [~swex@] has joined #debian
14:41<pparadis>--help or -h after a command also typically shows helpful usage information.
14:42<D3V3FF3CT>Ya, I use to use Ubuntu but heard Debain ight be fun XD
14:42<pparadis>we like it :)
14:42<D3V3FF3CT>Why the prefernce of Debain if I might ask???
14:43<pparadis>without getting too far offtopic (there's #debian-offtopic for that), it's always been extremely stable and usable for me. other things based on debian haven't been so hot.
14:44<pparadis>i run debian stable on most of my stuff because i like my systems to just work.
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14:46<D3V3FF3CT>You know, I think I might try to get it on my NetBook again.
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14:48<D3V3FF3CT>About Debain anywayz, where could I find out about modifying Debain???
14:48<D3V3FF3CT>Like, the OS itself???
14:48<retrospectacus>here, or the wiki
14:49<pparadis>it would probably also be good to review this information -->
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14:51<D3V3FF3CT>pparadis, that information talks about it. Out of curiousity, people said that Debain was written in C.
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14:52<pparadis>D3V3FF3CT: the linux kernel is written in C. debian is a complete operating system with many other pieces of software included (a "GNU/Linux" distribution). those pieces are written in many languages.
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14:52<retrospectacus>D3V3FF3CT: debian consists of tens of thousands of programs, some of which are written in C
14:53<D3V3FF3CT>Ahh, yes, I forgot about the kernal -_-
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14:56<D3V3FF3CT>The kernal, anything about modifing that???
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14:57<pparadis>D3V3FF3CT: there are many, many additional resources around the net and in books for that. however, that's really offtopic for this channel.
14:57<D3V3FF3CT>Is that still offtopic???
14:57<retrospectacus>D3V3FF3CT: re modifying the kernel... you shouldn't have to.
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14:58<dpkg>[make-kpkg] the tool that you use for compiling the kernel the Debian Way (tm). It makes a package for your custom kernel which you can install and remove easily using dpkg. See , man make-kpkg and ask me about <kernel compile> <kp mantra> <kernel build-deps>.
14:58<D3V3FF3CT>Well, the reason I ask is to learn, I want to modify all of this to learn more about the connection if you get what I mean.
14:58<D3V3FF3CT>Thank you all for your help :)
14:59<retrospectacus>not a good thing to start with but there it is
14:59<D3V3FF3CT>Well, I'll be able to research the rest :) My point is start small with programs.
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15:10<msch>anyone got any ideas why a long running app suddenly gets "getaddrinfo: Temporary failure in name resolution" which can be fixed by restarting? does it happen when the name servers switch over and libc gets stuck or something?
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15:17<josephseraos>hey, I have a problem. My Simple Scan is not seeing my scanner
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15:18<pparadis>josephseraos: what version of debian are you running, what exact software are you using, etc?
15:18<josephseraos>when I open it, it starts web cam, and in preferences there's not scan
15:18<josephseraos>Squeeze 6.0.4
15:18<josephseraos>pparadis, 6.0.4
15:18<pparadis>type of scanner, any relevant error messages you've noticed?
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15:20<elops> hey, is there a way to allow normal users to acces /proc/net/dev ?
15:20<josephseraos>pparadis, Debian Squeeze 6.0.4 - Software Simple Scan and XSane. Scanner is a HP Multifunctional. I've scanned other times, but it's not work anymore. lsusb returns
15:20<josephseraos>pparadis, Printer is working
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15:21<josephseraos>pparadis, when I click in Scan it open WebCam. In preferences HP does not appears
15:22<pparadis>has it worked before with the same configuration on the same machine you're using now?
15:22<pparadis>that is odd indeed. it may or may not change anything at all, but does it behave differently if you restart the HP and then relaunch the program?
15:23<pparadis>i ask because i once had an HP multifunction device that would go to sleep after a while, and neither debian nor even mac os x could see the scanner unless it was rebooted.
15:24<josephseraos>pparadis, I've done it already
15:24<pparadis>(well, couldn't communicate with the scanner)
15:24<josephseraos>pparadis, I didn't reboot my machine yet. Should I do it too?
15:24<pparadis>not necessarily, i would consider that a last resort.
15:25<josephseraos>pparadis, hey
15:27<josephseraos>pparadis, One day I updated Wine to last version. Ant it updated some other tools and uninstall others (gimp). Ant to install gimp again I downgraded wine and its dependencies. And it made me uninstall simple scan
15:27<pparadis>i was going to ask if you installed/uninstalled anything recently, but you just beat me to it :)
15:27<josephseraos>pparadis, After I downgraded the tools to the squeeze versions, I installed again simple scan, but it is not accessing my scanner
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15:28<pparadis>josephseraos: you may want to try installing libsane-extras and seeing if it helps, if that isn't already installed.
15:28<pparadis>it seems to me that something required got uninstalled during your previous install/remove process.
15:28<pparadis>have you rebooted the machine since then, by the way?
15:29<josephseraos>pparadis, after installed simple scan, no
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15:29<pparadis>also, if sane-backends isn't installed, it probably should be.
15:30<josephseraos>pparadis, hey, I have libscan-extras installed, but in synaptics there is a package called libsane-hpaio
15:30<josephseraos>pparadis, I'll try install it
15:30<pparadis>that seems like a very good bet.
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15:30<pparadis>"This package contains the sane backend libraries for use with HP Multi-function peripherals."
15:31<josephseraos>pparadis, perfect! It is working now
15:31<josephseraos>pparadis, thank you very much, I knew there was a solution =D
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15:31<pparadis>no problem, glad to help you brainstorm your way through it :)
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15:40<gsb>i compile and installed kernel 3.4.1 and since then xvideo support is missing. which is causing problem playing videos in mplayer and vlc. please help
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15:44<AlexLikeRock>do you restart the pc ?
15:45<gsb>AlexLikeRock: yes, i did, ran older kernel and everything working fine there.
15:46<pparadis>gsb: what version of debian are you running?
15:46<gsb>AlexLikeRock: problem only comes with newer kernel. there is something specific we need to do in debian after compiling kernel? i am using nvidia nouveau driver
15:46<gsb>pparadis: squeeze
15:47<pparadis>there are significant ABI changes between the 2.6.x and 3.x series kernels.
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15:48<pparadis>gsb: i hardly touch debian on the desktop (i'm a server guy), but i would assume that you would need to update the driver along with the kernel if you were going to run a 3.x kernel.
15:48<gsb>everything is working fine except xvideo thing. if i play video using -vo x11 -zoom video works fine
15:49<gsb>pparadis: seems like it
15:49<pparadis>may i ask why you're running the different kernel?
15:50<pparadis>and why you're compiling it yourself instead of perhaps installing one from backports?
15:50<gdb>Why people do this sort of thing to their Debian *stable* systems remains a mystery to me.
15:50<gsb>pparadis: no specific requirement. just wanted to try flashy 3.x kernel
15:50<gdb>The new flashy of bar none the most boring part of the operating system?
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15:51<pparadis>!tell gsb about sns
15:51<gdb>If the "new flashy" of a new kernel is the question, Debian stable was never the answer.
15:52<pparadis>sns is deadly.
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15:53<mycroes>Hi all
15:53<gsb>gdb: i know its bad to experiment but i was ready to reinstall system if problem occured. my in a way using stable as a testing.
15:53<mycroes>I'm stuck halfway on a Lenny to Squeeze upgrade
15:53<gsb>gdb: also i have working kernel
15:53<mycroes>I followed the Debian upgrading guide
15:54<mycroes>edit sources.list, ran apt-get upgrade
15:54<mycroes>then I installed new kernel
15:54<pparadis>gsb: well that sounds okay i guess. most people aren't really taking that approach on this sort of thing ;). experimenting is an inherently bad thing.
15:54<pparadis>mycroes: what were you upgrading from and to?
15:54<pparadis>oh sorry i missed that
15:55<pparadis>lenny -> squeeze, got it
15:55<mycroes>when I installed udev I think it broke
15:55<mycroes>udev installed
15:55<mycroes>but now libc6 is partly upgraded
15:55<mycroes>apt-get install -f fails on libc6
15:55<pparadis>is this a local or remote system?
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15:56<mycroes>giving me a 'relocation error: /bin/sh: symbol strlen, version GLIBC_2.2.5 not defined in file'
15:56<mycroes>pparadis, it's a remote virtual machine
15:56<pparadis>mycroes: my usual method for such upgrades is "apt-get update && apt-get install apt dpkg aptitude && apt-get dist-upgrade" running in a screen session.
15:56<mycroes>pparadis, however, it's a copy of a real physical server I want to upgrade
15:57<pparadis>what upgrade guide were you looking at?
15:57<mycroes>pparadis, although I now notice this is the i386 guide and I'm using amd64, but I guess that doesn't matter for what I did up to now
15:57<mycroes>also, what's strange is that everything works
15:58<gdb>gsb: Yeah, I apologize for my comments. More a knee-jerk reaction than anything else. :-) I can see your situation (learning) being a valid reason to dink with that sort of thing.
15:58<pparadis>you didn't by any chance actually install a 32-bit kernel, did you?
15:58<mycroes>pparadis, no, used the -amd64 one
15:59<pparadis>since this is a remote virtual machine, i'm curious if it's a "thin" environment that uses a host-supplied kernel, or if it uses your own native debian kernel.
15:59<gsb>gdb: no you were right. i was expecting such comments because i diverged from stable
15:59<mycroes>I tried manually extracting the new libc (dpkg -x), put that in place, symlinked, but then everything would fail
15:59<mycroes>so I booted some live distro to revert the symlink, after that the system boots up fine
16:00<pparadis>are you able to do: apt-get install apt dpkg aptitude
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16:01<mycroes>pparadis, no, it tries to finish the libc6 installation first and then fails
16:02<pparadis>mycroes: does "apt-get -f reinstall" for the the package in question help?
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16:03<gsb>i just think that there must be some step that i missed which someone here might be knowing. googling didn't do much help.
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16:03<mycroes>pparadis, you mean apt-get -f install?
16:03<pparadis>mycroes: rather, "apt-get -f install --reinstall offendingpackage"
16:04<mycroes>pparadis, nope, unfortunately not
16:04<pparadis>are you able to roll back to an image of the system before you started the upgrade?
16:05<D3V3FF3CT>Do, what do I do about my flash drive eing turned into a floppy disk because I try to install Debain from it???
16:06<pparadis>mycroes: if you can roll this back to the original lenny state, you may have decent luck with just the following procedure -->
16:06<mycroes>pparadis, yes, but what should I do different in that case?
16:06<gsb>mycroes: please try "sudo dpkg --configure -a"
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16:07<mycroes>hmm, if I do dpkg --configure -a it's also mentioning libc-i386
16:07<gsb>mycroes: followed by "sudo apt-get -f install"
16:08<pparadis>mycroes: also, are you running the stock debian kernel, or a host-supplied kernel? if it's the latter, you may or may not need to tweak things like /etc/fstab entries to accomodate whatever kernel you having to use.
16:08<mycroes>is that normal on an amd64 system
16:08<baronobeefdip>does anybody know how to make a video wall with debian
16:08<pparadis>baronobeefdip: ekiga or skype
16:08<baronobeefdip>many google searches on the subject have been coming up empty and useless
16:08<pparadis>baronobeefdip: did you actually mean "video call?"
16:09<mycroes>gsb, dpkg --configure -a gives the same error as well
16:09<baronobeefdip>just a regular video wall, i want to have a cluster where each node serves each tile and the front end controls what gets displayed on each nodes screen
16:09<pparadis>baronobeefdip: oh sorry, i misread what you said at first.
16:09<mycroes>pparadis, I guess it's the stock amd64 lenny kernel, but I didn't install this system
16:09<pparadis>mycroes: what does uname -a say?
16:09<baronobeefdip>so what do i have to do
16:10<baronobeefdip>i want all the nodes to run debian as well
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16:12<baronobeefdip>the link mentions chromium but the program that the article talks about has some confusion with other projects and i can't find the real one but assuming that i did find the real one (from a link on another article) i am unable to compile it, is there a video wass clustering program available in atleast a .sh or .bin fille maybe something in the repositories
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16:14<pparadis>baronobeefdip: all i can really find with quick searches is this rather old doc, but reading through it you might be able to adapt the core ideas to debian systems -->
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16:15<mycroes>pparadis, linux-2.6.32-5-amd64 ...
16:15<mycroes>pparadis, but that's the one I installed just an hour ago of course :P
16:15<pparadis>that's stock squeeze, yeah.
16:15<mycroes>the previous one was amd64 as well though
16:15<mycroes>pparadis, as I said, I had to reboot after my manual libc extraction and symlink change
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16:16<baronobeefdip>i was just reading that one, xinerama doesn't seem to be in the repositories so this might be a little more difficult, this is also not the way i wanted it to be built, i want all of the nodes which control each tile to be controlled by a server which doesn't provide display of the tiles just it's own screen which is used to interact with the server which is used to control all of the tiles (nodes)
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16:17<pparadis>mycroes: i wish i had to suggest here. others might still, but i'm stuck on it. if you stay stuck, you might want to roll it back and try these steps, taking care to save anything odd looking that happens -->
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16:17<Marillion>mycroes: what say "dmesg | head -5"?
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16:17<pparadis>s/had to suggest/had more to suggest/
16:17<mycroes>Marillion, you mean head -n 5?
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16:18<Marillion>mycroes: copy&paste
16:18<mycroes>I can't copy & paste unfortunately
16:18<Marillion>then write on your terminal
16:18<mycroes>I'll type it
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16:19<mycroes>cgroup subsys ns
16:19<Marillion>are you kidding
16:19<mycroes>[ 0.004541] Initializing cgroup subsys cpuacct
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16:19<mycroes>and I have another 3 of those lines
16:19<mycroes>with other cgroups
16:19<mycroes>it's a server, the dmesg buffer is too short
16:19<Marillion>take paste
16:21<mycroes>Marillion, as I said, I can't copy paste. What I just typed in is the first two lines of 'dmesg | head -5'
16:21<mycroes>Marillion, I can look in /var/log/dmesg
16:21<mycroes>Marillion, are you after the kernel version and architecture?
16:22<Marillion>mycroes: no, i doubt it is a Debian system
16:22<mycroes>Marillion, lol, I don't doubt it
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16:22<mycroes>Marillion, I don't want to be rude, but what's the amount of experience you have with Debian and Linux in general?
16:23<mycroes>Marillion, do you develop? just use it?
16:23<Marillion>mycroes: over ten years
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16:23<pparadis>Marillion: i think it's pretty clear that this is a lenny to squeeze upgrade. read the scrollback.
16:23<mycroes>Marillion, ok, good, good
16:23<mycroes>Marillion, I followed a debian guide saying I should first do 'apt-get upgrade', then install new kernel, then udev
16:24<mycroes>Marillion, so no dist-upgrade to start with
16:24<Marillion>mycroes: it is VPS, right?
16:24<mycroes>Marillion, as part of the udev upgrade it wanted to upgrade libc6
16:24<pparadis>Marillion: read the scrollback.
16:24<mycroes>Marillion, no, right now a VirtualBox virtual machine
16:24<Marillion>as in VPS
16:24<mycroes>Marillion, however, it's a clone of a physical server
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16:25<mycroes>I'm actually testing the upgrade before doing it on the physical server
16:25*pparadis goes to smoke.
16:25<Marillion>pparadis: i know what i talk about :)
16:25<pparadis>Marillion: i'm sure you do. if you would read the scrollback you'd have an idea what's already been done, and you'd have more information to work with.
16:26<baronobeefdip>there seems to be no helpful links in google searches since most of the projects besides chromium that do the video wall type deal, most of the seemingly easy ones are depricated and no longer have a website or anywhere to post their source code
16:26<Marillion>pparadis: ok don't worry, allright :)
16:26<mycroes>Marillion, so right now I'm halfway between lenny and squeeze
16:27<mycroes>Marillion, I can do about everything, the machine actually (re)boots
16:28<Marillion>mycroes: did you have been anything chang, before
16:29<Marillion>mycroes: did you have been anything change , before you install a upgrade?
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16:29<pparadis>Marillion: the reason i'm asking you to read the scrollback is that others have put a lot of useful info into play, and yes, i've done this dozens of times myself. and documented way crazier than this. i'm trying to politely ask you to help others help him. but i guess you've got this, so i will just go smoke.
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16:30<mycroes>Marillion, there's nothing special installed or changed that I know off
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16:31<mycroes>Marillion, however, it's a gateway machine with both a fiber and adsl (ppp) connection, dhcp, firewall, squid proxy and some other things
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16:32<Marillion>pparadis: i don't your enemy, i don't beliebe what make the trouble, then lenny to squeeze exist for long time
16:34<mycroes>Marillion, there was one issue during the (apt-get) upgrade though, shorewall couldn't start so apt was reporting all the shorewall packages as not-completed
16:34<mycroes>Marillion, but I fixed the issue, and did apt-get install -f
16:34<mycroes>Marillion, and only then started on the next part of the manual
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16:38<mycroes>Marillion, if you have any suggestions please let me know, for now I'm going to retry it from the start using the method pparadis suggested
16:38<mycroes>I will keep a snapshot of this state though
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16:40<Marillion>mycroes: make what pparadis said, i have no enough time for that, sorry
16:42<pparadis>Marillion / mycroes : aside from the initial upgrade steps taken possibly being the issue, i'm wondering if it's possible that there's a quirk involved with this being an image of another machine. maybe more info will be available after the next upgrade attempt.
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16:43<mycroes>pparadis, I did a bind mount, rsynced that over, did grub-install, that's it
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16:43<kop>pparadis: I'm wondering whether, since it's a vm, it's got it's own kernel or is sharing with the host. (I didn't pay attention to what sort of vm we're talking about.)
16:43<pparadis>yeah, i dunno if there's anything possibly amiss there. let's hope it just works the next time, or at least yields more info.
16:44<pparadis>kop: nod, that was what i was wondering earlier, but he actually does seem to be running the native kernel (as opposed to a host-supplied one).
16:44<mycroes>kop, virtualbox vm
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16:45<mycroes>I'm actually even using the same SAS controller, but then virtualized
16:45<pparadis>mycroes: btw, i keep calling you "he." i apologize if you're not a he :)
16:45<mycroes>pparadis, I'm a he :P
16:45<mycroes>figuring out how to list snapshots for virtualbox on the commandline...
16:45<mycroes>then I can revert to the base one
16:45<mycroes>found it
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16:47<figitaki>where is the config file for dnsmasq located
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16:49<figitaki>i already read that it's not there
16:49<figitaki>in /etc/
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16:50<retrospectacus>figitaki: run ''dpkg -L foo'' to see what files foo package created on your machine
16:51<figitaki>already did and it says that dnsmasq isn't installed but i can run the command and i have it running right now
16:51<pparadis>figitaki: there's an example file under /usr/share/doc/dnsmasq/examples/
16:51<figitaki>pparadis: thats not there either
16:51<pparadis>it says it isn't installed?
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16:51<pparadis>figitaki: what version of debian are you using?
16:52<figitaki>pparadis: squeez
16:52<pparadis>how did you install dnsmasq?
16:52<kop>figitaki: Then somebody installed it without using the package manager.
16:52<retrospectacus>figitaki: if it's there but dpkg doesn't know then you installed in wrongly, maybe from a tarball etc.
16:53<figitaki>retrospectacus: don't think so, i fresh installed this system, it may have something to do with that it was done during the installation? yeah>
16:53<retrospectacus>what says ''which dnsmasq''
16:53<retrospectacus>figitaki: no
16:53<pparadis>retrospectacus: you're in my head again, that is sitting in my copy buffer :)
16:54<figitaki>retrospectacus: /usr/sbin/dnsmasq
16:54<retrospectacus>but ''dpkg -S /usr/sbin/dnsmasq'' says nothing?
16:54<pparadis>what does 'dnsmasq -v' say?
16:54<figitaki>retrospectacus: yes
16:55<figitaki>pparadis: 2.55
16:55<AlexLikeRock>xmms can play shoutcast?
16:55<retrospectacus>figitaki: then it got installed some other way, not by apt-get/aptitude/dpkg
16:55<retrospectacus>figitaki: or something else crazy is happening
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16:55<pparadis>like... really crazy.
16:55<devil>AlexLikeRock: xmms is dead.
16:56<figitaki>retrospectacus: ha ok should i just do an apt-get install of it
16:56<pparadis>you could always try installing it with aptitude and see what happens.
16:56<figitaki>pparadis: ill try that
16:56<figitaki>pparadis: would it cause any confusions
16:56<pparadis>let's find out
16:56<figitaki>pparadis: haha aight
16:57<figitaki>pparadis: i got some weird errors at the end of the install about not being able to start it. but i just stoped my old dnsmasq and everything looks okay
16:58<AlexLikeRock>nooooooooo !
16:58<AlexLikeRock>tnk , devil :-(
16:58<devil>AlexLikeRock: try qmms
16:58<retrospectacus>AlexLikeRock: pretty sure every audio player in debian will play shoutcast streams. XMMS is indeed dead long time
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16:59<figitaki>pparadis: uh oh i cant start dnsmasq actually it says that the Address is already in use
16:59<retrospectacus>means its already running
16:59<pparadis>you probably still have a dnsmasq process running
16:59<pparadis>ps axu | grep dnsmasq
16:59<figitaki>pgrep says otherwise
17:00<pparadis>what's under /var/run and other usual suspect places?
17:00<pparadis>maybe the old one left a pidfile hanging around.
17:00<figitaki>never mind it is
17:00<AlexLikeRock>okas, retrospectacus , tnks
17:00<figitaki>haha :)
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17:01<figitaki>wait no i was actually seing the grep request
17:01<figitaki>still not working
17:01<pparadis>try /etc/init.d/dnsmasq stop
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17:02<figitaki>it says dnsmasq not running and then says (warning)
17:02<figitaki>I still cant start
17:02<pparadis>do you have something binding to that port?
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17:02<mycroes>pparadis, just restarting the upgrade process
17:02<figitaki>how do i check
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17:02<retrospectacus>figitaki: netstat -plant |grep ':53'
17:02<pparadis>netstat -anlp | grep :53
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17:03<mycroes>pparadis, if I do 'apt-get install apt dpkg aptitude' it also lists libc6 and libc6-i386 as packages to install
17:03<mycroes>pparadis, best bet is just to try if it works?
17:03<figitaki>is that from bind
17:03<pparadis>mycroes: yep, and if that doesn't work, i'd try proceeding directly to the apt-get dist-upgrade right after apt-get update and crossing my fingers.
17:04<pparadis>figitaki: yes
17:04<figitaki>so just stop bind
17:04<pparadis>you should probably uninstall bind.
17:04<figitaki>ok with purge
17:05<pparadis>bind is a nameserver. you should actually probably ask yourself why that is already installed.
17:05<figitaki>I was experementing earlier with it
17:05<pparadis>and if you really don't need it, you want to uninstall it, because dnsmasq needs to listen on tcp/udp 53.
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17:06<mycroes>figitaki, might be wise to check if your system is not using it's own nameserver for dns
17:06<figitaki>how does one go about doing that
17:06<pparadis>cat /etc/resolv.conf
17:06<mycroes>figitaki, you can check /etc/resolv.conf for that (if it lists then it's using the local bind instance)
17:07<pparadis>yepper, which is okay to do (probably, depends on what you want) after you install dnsmasq, but you'll need a valid resolver in resolv.conf to get it installed if bind is providing that right now.
17:07<pparadis> works in a pinch.
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17:07<figitaki>It has my ISP nameservers
17:07<mycroes>pparadis, what's that, google? opendns?
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17:07<mycroes>figitaki, that's great
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17:07<pparadis>mycroes: google, yeah
17:07<mycroes>figitaki, then you don't need bind
17:08<mycroes>pparadis, I knew about, and I thought that was easy :P
17:08<pparadis>mycroes: :)
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17:08<plugwash>anyone else having trouble with apt in sid?
17:08<mycroes>pparadis, your professional occupation has to do with debian I assume?
17:09<plugwash>E: Method rred has died unexpectedly!
17:09<plugwash>E: Sub-process rred received a segmentation fault.
17:09<pparadis>opendns is the devil. they have a long history of intercepting nxdomain responses, which can really screw things up.
17:09<devil>who is calling?
17:09<pparadis>mycroes: yes, you could say that.
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17:09<retrospectacus>plugwash: join #debian-next and /msg dpkg bat
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17:10<figitaki>mycroes: when I try to connect to the internet from inside my private network I can resolve the name, (ie to but i dont get a response to ping
17:10<mycroes>figitaki, there can be so many reasons for that...
17:10<kop>figitaki: try: ping -n
17:10<mycroes>what's -n?
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17:10<figitaki>kop: didn't help
17:10<pparadis>pparadis::palegray-mobile { ~ }-> host
17:10*mycroes is lazy
17:10<pparadis> domain name pointer
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17:11<pparadis>that doesn't look like to me.
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17:11<figitaki>pparadis: what does it mean??
17:11<pparadis>it means your ISP's nameservers are giving you something that isn't
17:11<plugwash>retrospectacus, I was just running apt-get update at the time, it downloaded a load of pdiffs and then gave the errors I pasted
17:12<mycroes>pparadis, same upgrade error using the 'apt-get install apt dpkg aptitude' method
17:12<plugwash>I could pastebin an exact list of the pdiffs if I really had to but I doubt it would help much
17:12<figitaki>pparadis: okay so does that mean i should switch to in my resolv,conf
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17:12<pparadis>figitaki: it won't hurt anything.
17:12<pparadis>figitaki: this is what google's records should probably resemble:
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17:13<pparadis>figitaki: what happens if you open a web browser and try to visit ?
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17:14<figitaki>pparadis: connection error, weird thing is when i do $dig localhost i get all the correct records
17:14<figitaki>sorry when i do that from my head node
17:14<figitaki>not from compute nodes
17:14<pparadis>figitaki: so what happens if you use as your resolver?
17:14<retrospectacus>plugwash: take it to #debian-next
17:14<figitaki>pparadis: lemme check
17:15<figitaki>what do i use for domain and search options
17:15<pparadis>you don't need those.
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17:15<pparadis>you just need "nameserver"
17:15<figitaki>restart dnsmasq
17:16<pparadis>that shouldn't affect anything here.
17:16<pparadis>well, actually, yeah go ahead and restart it.
17:16<pparadis>if you're attempting to dig @localhost then it will matter.
17:17<figitaki>ill check
17:17<pparadis>dnsmasq will check its in-memory cache first for a query, then consult /etc/hosts (if you configure it that way), then consult the upstream (whatever is in resolv.conf) if it still doesn't know.
17:18<pparadis>it may reverse the first two, i don't remember.
17:18<figitaki>oooooooh I never did my hosts file
17:18<pparadis>that doesn't matter for this exercise.
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17:18<figitaki>@localhsot is fine
17:19<pparadis>so is that a system that you are using to browse to
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17:19<figitaki>I think dnsmasq cant route the response from google because it doesn't recognize the local ip of the machine
17:19<pparadis>you can test it from there with links or lynx or whatever.
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17:20<figitaki>ok so when i make a request from my machine in the private network it can go out because dnsmasq knows what google is but it cant send back the response because it doesn't know my private machine's ip, because it isn't in hosts file
17:20<pparadis>dnsmasq does not control your routing.
17:20<pparadis>nor does it control firewalling functions.
17:21<pparadis>it's completely ordinary and normal to have private IP machines sitting behind a public IP. this is called NAT.
17:21<figitaki>thats what i got
17:21<pparadis>you haven't by any chance installed some kind of firewall program or played with iptables have you?
17:21<figitaki>not intentionally
17:22<pparadis>can you ping your default gateway from this machine?
17:22<figitaki>what do you mean by default gate way and which machine
17:22<pparadis>better question, please pastebin the output of "iptables -L ; iptables -L -t nat" to
17:23<pparadis>throw "route -n" on top of that as well.
17:23<pparadis>hell, throw "cat /etc/network/interfaces ; ifconfig -a" on top of that as well :)
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17:26<figitaki>there it is
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17:26<pparadis>figitaki: your gateway is can you ping that?
17:27<figitaki>from my public machine yes
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17:27<pparadis>what does "public" mean?
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17:27<pparadis>can you ping from the machine you gave me that pastebin output with?
17:27<pparadis>the machine those commands were run on.
17:27<figitaki>thats the one running dnsmasq
17:27<pparadis>can you ping from that same machine?
17:28<figitaki>yep i can use a web browser and everything
17:28<pparadis>i am really confused what the problem is at this point.
17:28<figitaki>but on the machine in the private network i can't do any of this
17:28<pparadis>please explain what you mean by "public network" and "private network."
17:28<pparadis>because that machine, the one with dnsmasq running on it now, is on a private network.
17:29<figitaki>ok i have a private network with one machine running the dnsmasq and connected to the real internet by way of my router and modem that is used my all other computers in my house. but i cant connect to the public internet, ie google facebook, from the computers in my private network set up behind it
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17:31<pparadis>so let me see if i understand. your setup goes: internet --> cable modem --> home_router --> (dnsmasq_machine, some_desktop, some_other_desktop)
17:31<pparadis>is that accurate?
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17:31<pparadis>are you trying to use the dnsmasq machine as a router?
17:31<pparadis>i note that there is an eth1 in your routing table.
17:32<pparadis>as in, for the dnsmasq machine, does it have two network interfaces on it, and are you plugging into the internet side on eth0 (into your home router, actually), and then attempting to share that to everything else from eth1 on the dnsmasq machine?
17:32<figitaki>ok so once it gets to the dnsmasq_machine i have other computer connected to it's eth0 by way of ethernet hub and cables, and in eth1 i have connected to the router
17:32<figitaki>opposite of what you said
17:32<figitaki>nonono yes your right
17:32<figitaki>eth0 to internet and eth1 to private network
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17:33<pparadis>so you are trying to use the dnsmasq machine as a router.
17:33<figitaki>wait i am so confuesd
17:33<figitaki>no eth1 is the port dnsmasq is running on
17:33<figitaki>and eth0 is the internet
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17:33<pparadis>is this why you were installing dnsmasq in the first place? because you wanted to serve DHCP from that machine to the other machines sitting behind it?
17:33<figitaki>well i have dhcp running but i need a dns
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17:34<figitaki>or something so they can access the internet
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17:34<pparadis>figitaki: what you've missed here (at minimum) is understanding that DNS and DHCP are not routing.
17:34<figitaki>well i understand that
17:34<pparadis>if i understand your setup correctly, you haven't told the dnsmasq machine to act as a router.
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17:35<figitaki>how must i do that
17:35<pparadis>figitaki: what does this say? cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
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17:36<retrospectacus>so the machine does not forward packets, and thus will not work as a router
17:36<figitaki>oooooooh ok ok
17:36<figitaki>so what can do that for me
17:36<retrospectacus>echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
17:36<figitaki>thats it
17:37<pparadis>figitaki: you may want to review documentation like this:
17:37<figitaki>thats just what i need ill check it out
17:38<pparadis>for what you are trying to do, you need to (1) make the router act as a router with regard to forwarding traffic, (2) make that box serve DHCP correctly [not from the upstream home router, that's different], and (3) provide DNS service if you want to do that to.
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17:38<pparadis>if you don't want DHCP internally, you can statically assign IPs to the other machines, it's up to you.
17:38<figitaki>so i have dhcp giving out static internal ip's just for the private network
17:39<pparadis>dhcp and static are opposites. maybe you meant "semi-permanent dhcp leases?"
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17:39<pparadis>i really recommend you do a bunch of reading on guides like the one i linked, and also on how dhcp/dns/etc work.
17:39<figitaki>dhcp sees the machines on the network and gives them a fixed address according to the one defined for that hardware
17:40-!-mode/#debian [+l 504] by debhelper
17:40<figitaki>i understand dhcp well enough
17:40<pparadis>folks here will be very happy to help with specific configuration problems for things, but this isn't really the right channel for general knowledge discussions.
17:40<pparadis>#debian-offtopic would be a better bet for that.
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17:41<mycroes>pparadis, if I don't include aptitude in the apt-get line it doesn't need the new libc
17:41<pparadis>sweeeet, perhaps that will ease the pain and let it roll through things without eating itself.
17:42<pparadis>i mean, it's for sure going to need to new libc as part of the dist-upgrade, but i get what you're saying right now.
17:42<pparadis>s/to new/the new/
17:42-!-sakal [] has joined #debian
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17:43<robert>anyone here?
17:43<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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17:43<jchen>theres 492 people here robert
17:44<robert>can someone help me install debian?
17:44<robert>i get a grub error
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17:44<jchen>wats teh error
17:44<mycroes>pparadis, unfortunately I have no other solution to try than a dist-upgrade, don't see any partly upgrade I could start with
17:44-!-samsul_ [~samsul@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:45<mycroes>pparadis, I'm gonna try the entire dist-upgrade, I'll probably know in half an hour if it worked
17:45<pparadis>mycroes: it should for sure be a dist-upgrade to begin with. you don't want to do just "upgrade" after you've updating your sources.list.
17:45<pparadis>it has to be dist-upgrade.
17:45<mycroes>pparadis, the strange thing is that manual is mentioning just upgrade ;-)
17:45<pparadis>i know :)
17:45<mycroes>actually, just upgrade does work
17:46<mycroes>becuase it doesn't touch a lot, it actually works
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17:46<robert>i tryed 3 times install debian xfce adn every time gave me a grub installation error
17:46<mycroes>but there's not much use if it stops there
17:46<pparadis>mycroes: depending on what's there, i've seen just upgrade actually fail pretty hard in between there :)
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17:47<pparadis>robert: please tell us exactly what error message you are receiving.
17:47<pparadis>robert: and exactly what debian install media you are using.
17:48<robert>i dont know exactly .... but is a message that tell grub (or someting like this) can`t be installed and can`t boot
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17:48<pparadis>i'm familiar with what i _think_ your message said. what exact install media are you using for this? also, please describe the system you're trying to install on.
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17:49<robert>i`m installing from usb ... si a 2400+ semprom with 512 ram and ati radeon 9250
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17:50<pparadis>i'm guessing this is on an IDE hard drive? also, what exact install media are you using?
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17:51<robert>i`m lost ... from usb to hard disk
17:51<pparadis>what kind of hard disk do you have?
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17:52<pparadis>also, please tell us where you got the installation media (.iso, etc) you are using to install this?
17:52<robert>western digital 40GB ... normal harddisk .. non sata
17:52<pparadis>okay, that's an IDE hard drive. you may want to check the jumper setting on it, and adjust it from slave to master if necessary. i presume it's the only drive in the system?
17:53<robert>now is too late but tommorow i`ll try again and copy everyting is wrong
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17:54<robert>yes ... no cd-rom ... no nothing ... only the motherboard+processor harddisk and video card
17:54<robert>and ram
17:54<pparadis>right, you probably want to look at which IDE channel you're plugged into, and what the jumper on the drive is set to.
17:55<robert>no jumper on hard
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17:55<robert>what program should i use to make a usb with debian
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17:55<robert>maybe this is the problem
17:56<pparadis>robert: you still haven't told us where you got the installation media you are using.
17:56<pparadis>i'm asking how you actually got to the point where you had something to install with.
17:57<robert>i use pendrive to put debian (from on a usb
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17:59<robert>i use windows now .... and i want to get rid of this shitty os
18:00<pparadis>is this where you got it?
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18:01<robert>yes ... i386
18:02<pparadis>i would check the BIOS to make sure your hard drive is showing up as the master there as the next step.
18:03<robert>i`m downloading it right now ... can you suggedst me a program to put it on a usb?
18:03<robert>to install it from usb
18:03<pparadis>i use dd to write images like that
18:03<retrospectacus>I use cat
18:04<robert>from windows
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18:05<retrospectacus>funny how things are so simple in linux and impossible in windows
18:05<retrospectacus>linux: cat debian-live.iso > /dev/sdb
18:05<retrospectacus>windows: uhhhh
18:06<pparadis>(plus sync ;) )
18:06<retrospectacus>can I have some money now
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18:08<robert>after i installed to make a pppoe connection ...
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18:11<robert>brb ... try again
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18:16<mycroes>pparadis, still same issue (with dist-upgrade)
18:17<pparadis>mycroes: can you pastebin logs so folks can have a look at the fresh output?
18:17<mycroes>I'll try..
18:17<mycroes>currently connected using RDP
18:19<robert>how should i format the partition for debian? ... is there any problem if i have a ntfs partition?
18:20-!-mode/#debian [+l 498] by debhelper
18:22<plugwash>Linux should be installed on a filesystem with unix-like semantics, which one is best is a matter of debate but it certainly shouldn't be NTFS
18:22<plugwash>having NTFS partitions for data or for other operating systems is fine though
18:24<mycroes>Lenny -> Squeeze upgrade issue during libc6 upgrade:
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18:25<mycroes>pparadis, could you perhaps verify the libc version against what you have on a squeeze system? I did check already, but still...
18:25<abrotman>did you follow the release notes?
18:25<mycroes>abrotman, are you asking me?
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18:25<pparadis>mycroes: he's referring to this -->
18:25<abrotman>the other person upgrading from lenny to squeeze ...
18:25<pparadis>well, for 64-bit rather, but yeah
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18:26<abrotman>mycroes: dpkg -l libc6 .. which versoin is currently installed ?
18:26<abrotman>oh .. i see, ignore me
18:26<abrotman>mycroes: if you 'dpkg --configure -a' .. same output ?
18:27<mycroes>abrotman, I'll try again, but up till now it has
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18:27<retrospectacus>did you make sure lenny is up to date (/msg dpkg lenny sources.list) before proceeding to lenny->squeeze ?
18:27<pparadis>mycroes: could you please also pastebin /etc/apt/sources.list as well?
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18:28<mycroes>dpkg --configure -a tells me about some dependency problems related to libc6 and some perl stuff
18:28<dpkg>You are person #2 to send an unparseable request, mycroes
18:28<pparadis>retrospectacus: very good point on your last, i didn't think to ask him earlier if the lenny side was fully updated first.
18:29<plugwash>mycos, what does ls -l /bin/sh say?
18:29<themill>mycroes: can you pastebin "ldd /bin/sh"
18:29<abrotman>mycroes: we like pastebin ...
18:29<pparadis>i like paste! :D
18:30<mycroes>pparadis, sources.list for lenny -> squeeze upgrade:
18:31<abrotman>it's either a problem with his shell (see where /bin/sh points) or something horribly broken in libc6
18:31<mycroes>pparadis, ldd for /bin/sh (-> bash):
18:32<mycroes>abrotman, this is at least the third upgrade attempt
18:32<mycroes>abrotman, all ending up at this issue
18:32<mycroes>abrotman, and yes, I started by following the release notes
18:32<pparadis>mycroes: i can nearly guarantee you this is being caused by the lenny side not being fully updated first.
18:32<plugwash>mycroes, what i'd do is download bash-static, install it (force it if nessacery) and then point /bin/sh at it
18:32-!-robert [robert@] has quit []
18:32<plugwash>then try to continue the upgrade
18:32<mycroes>abrotman, which worked up to the udev upgrade
18:33<abrotman>mycroes: dpkg -l bash .. which version is installed?
18:33<pparadis>when retrospectacus mentioned that just a couple of minutes ago, i specifically recalled libc6 issues a long time ago on a system the were because of that.
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18:33<mycroes>abrotman, 3.2.4 (lenny)
18:33<mycroes>pparadis, I was thinking about that earlier, failed to check
18:34<abrotman>judd: versions bash
18:34<judd>Package: bash on i386 -- lenny: 3.2-4; squeeze: 4.1-3; sid: 4.2-2; wheezy: 4.2-2
18:36<retrospectacus>I've seen a couple people in here with blowed-up dpkg or apt or libc6 in that scenario, should add "get lenny up to date" to the start of !lenny->squeeze
18:36<pparadis>mycroes: ^ it would be best to start by booting the original lenny image and making sure it has all available updates installed.
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18:42<mycroes>pparadis, I guess I can only use the main deb source?
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18:42<mycroes>pparadis, no security source?
18:44<mycroes>also, with lenny I just had main enabled, do I need to enable main AND contrib for squeeze, and can that cause any issues?
18:44<themill>I suspect we need to work out exactly which versions of libc6 and libc-bin are unpacked and then look at the symlinks that are in place.
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18:45<mycroes>themill, is symlinked to
18:45<abrotman>dmin: english here
18:45<mycroes>themill, lenny didn't have libc-bin installed
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18:46<mycroes>themill, if I unpack libc-2.11.3 and symlink to that then everything fails
18:46<abrotman>mycroes: if oyu put a set -x on the second line of the preinst for libc6 .. what's the command it actually fails on ?
18:47-!-pizza__ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:47<mycroes>abrotman, what do you mean, unpacking the dpkg and then running the preinst manually?
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18:50<abrotman>mycroes: no, loook in /var/lib/dpkg/info/
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18:52<mycroes>abrotman, and then how should I check?
18:53<mycroes>running that script?
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18:54<abrotman>try to upgrade again
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18:54<mycroes>using apt-get install libc6?
18:54<abrotman>no ...
18:54<abrotman>not what i said to do ...
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18:57<mycroes>abrotman, this time I was just trying 'apt-get install libc-bin' after 'apt-get install apt dpkg'
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18:57<mycroes>but I'm running apt-get upgrade now...
18:57<abrotman>you mean dist-upgrade ?
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18:58<mycroes>no, just upgrade
18:58<mycroes>that's what you said
18:58<abrotman>"the upgrade"
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18:59<mycroes>dist-upgrade running now...
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19:01<mycroes>abrotman, same error, no extra detail
19:01<abrotman>not a single bit?
19:02<abrotman>i don't believ eit
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19:03<mycroes>I actually added set -x to postrm as well, because that's the stage where it complains iirc
19:04<mycroes>the error shows immediately after 'unpacking replacement libc'
19:04<abrotman>oh .. old post-rm ...
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19:04<mycroes>well, the first error shows immediately after unpacking
19:04<Cocobloko>Is there any way i can share my internet (lan) via wlan AP
19:04<themill>mycroes: can you just run "sh -x /var/lib/dpkg/info/libc6.postrm"
19:05<abrotman>doesn't he need the full version string ?
19:05*themill suspects its sh that is bombing out not the postinst
19:05<abrotman>seems odd the other scripts would work, then that one would bail
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19:06<mycroes>themill, that works, but I guess I would need to pass some arguments to actually have it do something
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19:06<mycroes>abrotman, I'm not sure the other scripts work
19:06<macfreak>hello everyone :)
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19:06<Cocobloko>what would be the easiest way to do it ?
19:06<abrotman>if they wouldn't have worked, other packages would have not upgraded
19:06<macfreak>I have a question regarding FTP transfers
19:07<mycroes>also, in current state, getent is complaining that there's no glibc 2.10 symbol in
19:07<macfreak>I'm having huge problems with transfer stability on my network
19:07<themill>mycroes: what does running "ldconfig" do?
19:07<mycroes>abrotman, after the libc upgrade starts I can't upgrade anything anymore; libc6 fails, the other packages don't start because apt tries to finish libc6 first
19:07<abrotman>mycroes: can you run any shell scripts ?
19:08<macfreak>When MTU is set to 1000 I can "send out" around 4Mbits
19:08<mycroes>themill, ldconfig shows no output
19:08<simonlnu>mtu is too small
19:08<macfreak>but when from outside to my FTP server, it's very unstable, and often between ,8 and 2Mbits
19:09<mycroes>abrotman, it seems so
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19:11<mycroes>abrotman, I can restart openvpn (using /etc/init.d/openvpn) ...
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19:12<macfreak>simonlnu: when I set MTU 1200 on my router, I get zigzag pattern in transfer speed
19:12<simonlnu>typical mtu for ethernet is 1500
19:12<macfreak>simonlnu: but when I change to 1100, it seems to be stable at (now) 3MBps
19:12<macfreak>simonlnu: 3Mbps
19:13<Cocobloko>yo yo yo anyone know how to work hostapd cosss
19:13<simonlnu>there's some other issue that's causing an issue here. mtu modding works around it.
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19:14<Cocobloko>eyes be havin problems puttin wlan0 into pimp mode with iwconfig
19:14<retrospectacus>Cocobloko: what version of debian
19:15<abrotman>you're actually going to have a conversation with that?
19:15<Cocobloko>only way to get your attention abortman
19:15<abrotman>try again
19:15<abrotman>and you don't have my attention anymore than you did before
19:16<pparadis>Cocobloko: sup g pimpin you gots ta check yoself fo convo etiquette and shit when peeps be all up in other shit and junk tryin' to wreck probs on o peeps junk first. yo.
19:16<pparadis>or something.
19:16*pparadis goes to soke.
19:16<pparadis>smoke, even.
19:16<retrospectacus>Cocobloko: you need to put the chip in "master mode" which many chips do not support
19:17<retrospectacus>iwconfig wlan0 mode master
19:17<retrospectacus>if it gives an error, you're out of luck
19:18<Cocobloko>ive tried to no avail, im pretty sure it went to master mode on other versions of linux...
19:18<Cocobloko>could the problem lie in the drivers im using ?
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19:22<mycroes>actually, it seems binutils is broken as it is right now
19:22-!-macfreak [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:22<mycroes>needs newer libc than installed
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19:23<abrotman>this is a VM?
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19:24<Cocobloko>retrospectacus would it still be possible to create a wireless ap with hostapd without putting the card into master mode ?
19:26<retrospectacus>I think no.
19:27<mycroes>abrotman, yes
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19:28<abrotman>mycroes: so you can't run anytihng anymore?
19:28-!-macfreak [] has joined #debian
19:28<abrotman>mycroes: tried using busybox ?
19:28<mycroes>abrotman, yes I can run a lot
19:28<mycroes>actually I just reinstalled binutils from lenny
19:28<mycroes>but something's still broken
19:28<abrotman>someting ?
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19:30<mycroes>abrotman, still can't install libc6
19:30<mycroes>with same error
19:30<mycroes>I'm tracing all packages that were installed according to the pastebin logs, checking if they're linked against newer libc
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19:33<themill>binutils shouldn't do anything here
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19:36<macfreak>it's strange
19:37<macfreak>I can generate more traffic on my network by sending ping flood packets, than I can by initiating a ftp transfer
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19:37<macfreak>ping flood: 3,5Mbits...... while ftp maxes out on between 0,5 and 1,5Mbits
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19:38<dondelelcaro>macfreak: which hosts? which ftp clients? transfering what?
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19:39<macfreak>I'm in Poland, have a FTP server at my place (apartment), one ftp server in the same town and one server in Denmark
19:40<macfreak>when I transfer from my macbook on my home network to a ftp server in my town, I get transfer speeds around 3Mbits
19:40<dondelelcaro>macfreak: unless this is your own network, it's difficult to say precisely what is going on
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19:40<macfreak>but when I log onto the server in the same town, and initiate a ftp transfer from my ftp server on my network, I get a very unstable transfer
19:40<retrospectacus>friends don't let friends use FTP
19:40<dondelelcaro>macfreak: but first transfer something on the local network to see what the maximum theoretical speed you can get is, and then worry about remote transfers and the huge number of things that can go wrong with them
19:41<macfreak>zigzag between 0,5 and 1,5Mbits
19:41<macfreak>locally on my network I get 4,5 Megabytes per sec
19:42<macfreak>one way it's OK, but the other way it's broken ??
19:42<macfreak>meaning: the same way :)
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19:42<macfreak>just a question who initiates the transfer
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20:06<CENTRAL2>hola gente :-)
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20:10<CENTRAL2>what happens? , why not are running to me to spanish room ?
20:10<macfreak>look at my upload when ftp'ing...
20:10-!-CENTRAL2 is now known as AlexLikeRock
20:10<macfreak>zigzag pattern
20:10<retrospectacus>not enough jejejeje and holaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa AlexLikeRock
20:11<macfreak>why can't it be more stable ?
20:11<AlexLikeRock>i am welcome :-O is amazing
20:13<retrospectacus>macfreak: no idea. Ask your ISP?
20:14-!-floe__ [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20:14<retrospectacus>macfreak: does it happen with other protocols? SSH? HTTP?
20:15<macfreak>depends on distance
20:15<macfreak>the longer away, the worse it gets
20:15<macfreak>this image is worst case scenerio, around 600km's
20:16<retrospectacus>that's to be expected, RTT and all...
20:18<macfreak>RTT ?
20:18<retrospectacus>round trip time
20:18<macfreak>packets get lost in transit, retransmit and so on... right ?
20:19<macfreak>so if I have 4Mbit upload, I get roughly 2Mbits over 600km's distance
20:19<retrospectacus>well that too, but RTT just means they take longer to go that far. More devices to queue at
20:21<macfreak>one learns as long as one lives, but still dies stupid
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20:26<pparadis>macfreak: now that is a truism.
20:27<macfreak>pparadis: :D
20:27<pparadis>(some people do stop learnin, though)
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20:27<macfreak>I spent like 2 hours this evening on figuring out why the transfer speed was soooo unstable
20:27<macfreak>the answer: it's supposed to be like that
20:27*pparadis reads scrollback
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20:28<pparadis>oh, right, speed of light, inconsistent performance between separate links, the internet is inherently unreliable, your mileage may vary, terms and conditions apply, consult your doctor, etc.
20:28<pparadis>got it.
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20:29*retrospectacus goes home, beer o'clock :)
20:29<pparadis>retrospectacus: i just poured my first drink. get on that ;)
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20:44<macfreak>good night everyone, thanx for input
20:47-!-swaj [scott@2607:f2f8:ae84::2] has joined #debian
20:48<swaj>Hey all. I have a debian ICH-based RAID controller, and I've configured two disks for RAID 1 (mirror). The debian installer, however, is showing each disk independently. Do I need to do something special to show the mirror?
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20:48<swaj>err Intel ICH-based**
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20:50<scientes>should -dev packages have .a files?
20:50<scientes>for static linking?
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21:13<samuelkadolph>Does anyone know how to the volume controls on my usb speakers work? They generate keycodes when pressed but alsa doesn't change the volume.
21:14<scientes>samuelkadolph, what DE?
21:14<scientes>my volume keys work
21:14<scientes>with gnome
21:14<samuelkadolph>scientes: DE?
21:14<scientes>desktop environment
21:15<samuelkadolph>Ah, none. It's an embedded system
21:15<scientes>cause you need something to pick up those keypresses
21:15<samuelkadolph>showkey picks them up from /dev/tty0
21:15<scientes>????? not evdev?
21:16<scientes>generally sound is handled at user level so you can get speed-up with POSIX shared memory
21:16<scientes>but then only one user can use sound
21:16<scientes>at a time
21:18<samuelkadolph>It doesn't have any x11 packages installed. I don't know if they would work without any display adapter.
21:19<scientes>yeah you need am embedded-related daemon that listens to evdev
21:19<scientes>check if you get the keycodes with evtest
21:19<abrotman>samuelkadolph: please pick one network
21:20<ricardo>i install firefox 13 but it didn't conect transmission when i use a magnet torrent, how i do this?
21:21<scientes>Vinima, HELLO!
21:21<AlexLikeRock>hi vilnima
21:22<Vinima>How are you? :)
21:23<AlexLikeRock>which of the 2 you say ?
21:26<Vinima>You answer first, so YOU ;)
21:28<AlexLikeRock><Vinima> Hi!
21:28<AlexLikeRock><scientes> Vinima, HELLO!
21:28<AlexLikeRock><AlexLikeRock> hi vilnima (i am second)
21:29-!-samuelkadolph [] has quit [Quit: Quitting]
21:31<Vinima>I think scientes is AFK, so it's you!
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21:33<AlexLikeRock>how ?
21:33-!-samsul__ [~samsul@] has joined #debian
21:33<Vinima>How what?
21:33<AlexLikeRock>care ?
21:33<AlexLikeRock>ha ha haa
21:34<abrotman>go play somewhere else
21:34<AlexLikeRock>ok :-(
21:34<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
21:36-!-bfly [] has joined #debian
21:36<retrospectacus>Vinima: no offense! There are plenty of channels to chat in - #debian-offtopic #tardigns #moocows ... but not here
21:38<Vinima>Thanks for the channels :)
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21:42<AlexLikeRock>hola robin hood
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21:43<AlexLikeRock>sorry for lag (abrotman & retrospectacus)
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22:28<dpkg>rumour has it, boss is a powerful, annoying creature, usually devoid of any clue, especially when ordering people around. "Bharat Operating System Solutions" (BOSS), an Indian GNU/Linux distribution <based on debian>; support is at #boss-nrcfoss on and
22:30<abrotman>AlexLikeRock: msg the bot
22:31<haylo>anyone here use dd to back their system up? or is there another way recomended to back up debian ?
22:31<haylo>i was thinking to dd my partitions to a remote drive, and then dd them back to restore
22:31<abrotman>haylo: wow .. i've used rsync and tar .. rdiff-backup even .. but not dd for the whole disk
22:33<haylo>maybe i need to get better acquainted with rsync.
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22:39<pparadis>haylo: depends on whether your stuff is virtualized. i am in fact using dd for backup purposes, but not in the way most people are.
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22:40<cesurasean1>hey, is it possible to give a /home/ directory multiple owner permissions? or chown more than 1 user on the system?
22:40<cesurasean1>sounds stupid, but I've never done this before.
22:40<pparadis>cesurasean1: users can be members of multiple groups.
22:42<cesurasean1>yes, but can i assign ownership of files to multiple users?
22:42<pparadis>cesurasean1: without going into ACLs, files are owned by a user and a group. users can be members of multiple groups.
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22:49<AlexLikeRock>short answer, YES. looks a little about USER and GROUP on GNU or Unix
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22:52<cesurasean1>so, the users must be members of multiple groups to achieve this? or that's a separate option from assigning multi users to 1 file?
22:52<pparadis>cesurasean1: a file cannot be owned by multiple users.
22:54<cesurasean1>how do i make sure the two groups have the same permissions?
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22:54<haylo>root group and world. multiple world or or group users can have acess to the same file
22:55<Dinoclor>Can I ask a quick question about Squeeze?
22:55<Dinoclor>Sorry if I'm interrupting anything important
22:55<pparadis>haylo: that's probably a terrible idea.
22:56<abrotman>Dinoclor: of course
22:56<cesurasean1>I have some internet users with websites, but I want more than 1 user assigned to some files. How can I best achieve this? Place by users into the world, as well as their respective group they already have?
22:56<pparadis>cesurasean1: && && google more
22:57<AlexLikeRock>but , wenth the file are of Group 'X' and the goup X are with 'user2' , 'user3' and 'user4'
22:57<Dinoclor>My RasPi just arrived and I need to know how much space a Squeeze installation takes up so I can know what size of SD card I need to buy
22:57<pparadis>cuba33ci: as i (and now abrotman) have been saying, you need to understand how users and groups work.
22:57<abrotman>and how tab works
22:57<AlexLikeRock>they can have some permits , as if it were their
22:58<pparadis>abrotman: i suddenly thought of magnets ;)
22:58<abrotman>sure ...
22:59<craigevil>Dinoclor, depends on what you install, window manager less than 500MB, gnome/kde around 1.5GB
22:59<Dinoclor>Ok, thanks.
22:59<pparadis>minimal but quite usable gnome2 desktop should be about 1.4 GB, yep.
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23:00<pparadis>dous: for example -->
23:00<pparadis>err, sorry, Dinoclor rather ^
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23:01<Dinoclor>So LXDE would be around 500mb?
23:01<craigevil>sd cards are cheap, get the biggest it supports and you can afford
23:02<pparadis>there's no point in skimping on the storage side. once you starting adding applications, it gets used anyhow.
23:02<craigevil>Dinoclor, i had lxde with things like Openoffice, amarok, chrome, etc was just under 1gb
23:02<vortek>hello, i was walked threw getting my wireless going, so far i got the new kernel and wireless installed, when i turn on computer it says wireless netwrks found but nothing more, can i please get help?
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23:04<craigevil>vortek, install network-manager or wicd, either one is easy to use gui
23:05-!-debsan [~debsan@] has joined #debian
23:05<vortek>wicd has no option for wireless
23:06-!-trifolio6 [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
23:07<craigevil>make sure your user is in the netdev group
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23:09<vortek>how i do that?
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23:10<vortek>craigevil: how i do that?
23:10<jchen>gpasswd -a <user> <group>
23:12<vortek>how do i check first if im in the netdev group?
23:13<pparadis>vortek: have you tried finding that information yourself first? this is a debian-specific help channel, and we do encourage you to do some research first. if you get stuck afterward, we're certainly able to help.
23:13<vortek>were can i find help for a newbi?
23:13-!-Dinoclor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:13<craigevil>just type the word groups
23:14-!-atum [] has joined #debian
23:14<craigevil>i suggest you install the debian-reference and the debian-handbook, that will get you started
23:14<dpkg>Before asking in here or on the <debian-user> mailing list, you should read the Installation Guide, or if you already have Debian installed, the Debian Reference. The Debian Administrator's Handbook is also good. Ask me about <ig>, <overview>, <reference>, <refcard>, <docs>, <manuals>, <fundamentals>, <newbiedoc>, <faq>, <unix lessons>, <general cli tutorial>, <debian-handbook> (e.g. in your IRC client, type /msg dpkg reference).
23:14<vortek>yes im part of netdev
23:14<atum>speak portuguese?
23:15<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
23:15<cesurasean1>how do I chown multiple groups?
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23:15<craigevil>why would you need to chown groups?
23:16<vortek>is there a guide for , why my wireless isnt working in wicd?
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23:16<pparadis>that's like flomgerating wafflerorites, almost.
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23:18<craigevil>vortek, a good place to start
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23:19<pparadis>cesurasean1: traditionally, filesystem entries are owned by a user and a group. users can be members of multiple groups, and traditional posix permissions define what the user, group, and others may do with a particular filesystem entry.
23:19<pparadis>cesurasean1: to extend this further, there is information like this -->
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23:20<cesurasean1>ok thx
23:20<pparadis>it should noted that it is rather rare for most people to ever need to go beyond traditional posix permissions.
23:20<pparadis>s/should/should be/
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23:29<vortek>i raed the wiki and the other link..all is fine till i get to the wiki.
23:30<vortek>how do i find out my wireless card?
23:30<pparadis>lscpi ?
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23:32<vortek>just says intel corperation
23:32<pparadis>vortek: please pastebin the output of lspci to
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23:36<pparadis>vortek: that's the link?
23:37<pparadis>vortek: it's traditional to put the pastebin link in the channel.
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23:39<vortek>my wireless card is intel
23:39-!-haylo [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:40<vortek>but no detail listed
23:40<pparadis>vortek: why do you think your wireless is intel?
23:41<vortek>cuase windows used that card
23:42*pparadis looks at the pb again
23:42<vortek>and it says network controller
23:42<pparadis>ah there we go
23:42<vortek>i know its not realtek
23:43<pparadis>no no, that would be the wired interface
23:44<vortek>i just dont know why wicd isnt showing it :9
23:44<pparadis>it's not recognized yet. looking at that now.
23:44<pparadis>vortek: ^
23:45-!-ryerke_ [] has joined #debian
23:47<vortek>how do i find my distro like if i run squeeze or not?
23:47<vortek>and thanxs for thelink
23:48<pparadis>cat /etc/issue
23:48-!-ryerke [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:48<pparadis>you're welcome; that should fix you up.
23:49*pparadis wanders off to smoke
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23:55<D3V3FF3CT>When trying to install Debian on my NEtbook, I get an error code 127 for Bootloader..
23:57-!-fisted [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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23:59<AlexLikeRock>on test???
23:59-!-amphi [~amphi@] has joined #debian
23:59<AlexLikeRock>i have , this error on debian "TEST"
---Logclosed Fri Jun 08 00:00:01 2012