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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-06-08

---Logopened Fri Jun 08 00:00:01 2012
---Daychanged Fri Jun 08 2012
00:00<AlexLikeRock>debian 7 wheezy
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00:01<AlexLikeRock>my solution for my machine its install DEBIAN 6 Squeeze
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00:01<AlexLikeRock>bye guys
00:02<AlexLikeRock> see tomorrow
00:02<AlexLikeRock>adios amigos
00:03<vortek>pparadis, u there?
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00:08<Newbumz>Allo All
00:08<D3V3FF3CT>Elloz :)
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00:09<Newbumz>So I am a newb. But I bought a raspberry-pi like device called an MK 802. Is it possible for a moron to installl debian on an Allwinner 10 Arm type proc using just the net install iso of armel?
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00:09<vortek>pparadis: it wokred!
00:10<pparadis>vortek: sorry, stepped outside for a moment. good to hear! :)
00:10<vortek>pparadis, do i have to load them modeules every time i reboot?
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00:12<vortek>im asuming so yes hehe
00:12<vortek>but i shall read
00:13<vortek>cool thanxs
00:13<pparadis>the module will need to be loaded in order for it to be used ;)
00:13<Newbumz>Or does anyone have experience putting Debian on an Arm type device?
00:13<pparadis>i have two arms, but i use them to control my hands.
00:14<Newbumz>To jerk off?
00:14<pparadis>they run DNA/pparadis OS
00:15<pparadis>confucius say, man who requires two arms to jerk off needs either penile reduction surgery, or is doing it wrong.
00:15<pparadis>and with that, goodnight all. /me sleep 21600
00:16<vortek>thanxs for the help pparadis . im off to sleep now. thanxs
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00:22<D3V3FF3CT>Newbumz, I can't really say, I mean, it take USB???
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00:25<D3V3FF3CT>Ya, what is it again you got??? I'll take a look at it :)
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00:26<Newbumz>MK 802, All Winner A10 proc
00:27<Newbumz>Basically a Chinese manufacturer hopping on the Raspberry-Pi bandwaggon.
00:27<D3V3FF3CT>Something like that???
00:27<Newbumz>That is it
00:28<D3V3FF3CT>That's looks pretty awesome too :)
00:28<D3V3FF3CT>Hmmz, you might have to step into the development part... it include ways for you to do input like a keyboard & mouse???
00:28<Newbumz>Yeah I am pretty happy with myself. But it needs Linux, the Android on it is pretty much what you expect from a Chinese knock off device.
00:29<Newbumz>I am reading this site:
00:30<D3V3FF3CT>It said it was powered via USB, maybe a USB split off???
00:31<D3V3FF3CT>After all that, I can't see a problem with that :)
00:31<Newbumz>It takes power from a provided AC adapter -OR- the USB OTG port (I have not tested that yet)
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00:31<D3V3FF3CT>Ohhh, there's a power adapter included???
00:31<Newbumz>Yeah it comes with a full cable kit I was impressed.
00:31<D3V3FF3CT>-It is powered by a USB cable, this USB cable is included, but you need to purchase a compatible USB adapter (5V,2A),we can also give it to you if you tell me which country you are from, we will know what kind of USB adapter you need.
00:31<D3V3FF3CT>That's what was on the forum part.
00:31<Newbumz>Mine came with everything
00:31<D3V3FF3CT>Probably shoulda used Pastebin...
00:32<D3V3FF3CT>How much was it???
00:32<Newbumz>74 CDN
00:32*pparadis is awakened by a disturbance in the force... please direct ancillary conversation to #debian-offtopic
00:32<D3V3FF3CT>Ok pparadis XD
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00:32<D3V3FF3CT>Newbumz, #debian-offtopic
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00:33<D3V3FF3CT>Ok, now Debian on Netbook doesn't want to grab update options...
00:34*pparadis sleeps ~19800
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00:34<Newbumz>Udpate options? Like #apt-get update?
00:35<D3V3FF3CT>More like selecting to get soruces.
00:35<craigevil>nano /etc/apt/sources.list
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00:36<Newbumz>vi /etc/apt/sources.list
00:36<craigevil>should have roughly 3 repo squeeze main, security, squeeze-updates, 6 if you count deb-src
00:37<D3V3FF3CT>Actually, more of updates to download. The part of Main, Contrib & non-free, can't select any...
00:37<D3V3FF3CT>Main = Officially Supported
00:38<Newbumz>deb squeeze/updates main contrib non-free
00:38<Newbumz>deb-src squeeze/updates main contrib non-free
00:39<D3V3FF3CT>Ok, IDK how to use VI XDXDXD
00:39<Newbumz>I was just kidding Nano is fine.
00:40<D3V3FF3CT>Well, it's too late, lookin into it now ;)
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01:02<D3V3FF3CT>Anyone here know a lot about Virtual OSes???
01:05<pparadis>D3V3FF3CT: <-- yes. /me goes back to sleep
01:07<D3V3FF3CT>Well, I want to have help because I got a TV card installed on this computer & really I'm wondering if there's a way I can use it.
01:08<D3V3FF3CT>I want to use it with Debain but there's also the compatibility of running for Android stuff because everytime I try to add music to my Android through Ubuntu, it fail...
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02:00<DennisTheTiger>Today on Slashdot I found the pointer to something of a blog entry where the author of md5crypt has basically said that his tool that he created for password encryption was no longer to be considered secure, and that we should move on to other encryption mechanisms for our passwords. Is there a way to migrate my /etc/shadow file accordingly to a different scheme?
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02:09<Thorgrin>DennisTheTiger: You mean whether it is possible to decrypt one-way function and use another one?
02:10<scientes>do the buildds use libeatmydata?
02:10<DennisTheTiger>Thorgrin: I'm getting a feeling it would be that way, but I suppose that would be part of it, yes. My primary concern is changing to a stronger encryption.
02:11<dondelelcaro>DennisTheTiger: yes, you should be using SHA512 now
02:12<dondelelcaro>DennisTheTiger: you'll have to have people change their password to switch to them.
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02:12<DennisTheTiger>dondelelcaro: when was this implemented?
02:12<dondelelcaro>DennisTheTiger: libc6 2.7
02:13<DennisTheTiger>dondelelcaro: ...does not appear to be in squeeze.
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02:13<dondelelcaro>DennisTheTiger: squeeze has 2.11.3
02:14<scientes>2.11 > 2.7
02:14<scientes>GNU versioning standard
02:14<DennisTheTiger>scientes: you know, it would help if I didn't just finish algebra in school. Dammit. =D
02:14<DennisTheTiger>Guess I got nothing to worry about.
02:15<scientes>its not decimal
02:15<dondelelcaro>DennisTheTiger: you should have a line like password [success=1 default=ignore] obscure sha512 in /etc/pam.d/common-password
02:15<scientes>its major.minor.release
02:15<DennisTheTiger>Yeah, I know. I've known this. I just forgot. Damn you, algebra!
02:16<DennisTheTiger>dondelelcaro: Yep, it's there.
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02:16<dondelelcaro>DennisTheTiger: and if it's a SHA512 password, it should start with $6$...
02:16<DennisTheTiger>dondelelcaro: ...she's golden.
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02:17<DennisTheTiger>And for me forgetting that version numbers are not binary...
02:17<DennisTheTiger>!trout DennisTheTiger
02:17<DennisTheTiger> didn't work...
02:17<DennisTheTiger>oh well.
02:18<DennisTheTiger>In any case, thanks for the pointers and have a good night.
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04:06<Nemover>hi, everyone
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04:07<zeev>Hi, I try to resize my root partition (LVM) with lvextend -L 30G but it says : Incorrect metadata area header checksum on /dev/sda1 at offset 4096, ... , Insufficient free space: 5296 extents needed, but only 0 available . what should I do?
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04:08<Nemover>what should i do to install for instance chromium of еру latest available version? i guess i should add some testing repos, may be there's a link where i can read how to do that
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04:16<JackShephard>hello you can delete DHCPDISCOVER startup. prevents the PC to boot faster. so at the end says no offers dhcpdscvr
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04:20<rtheys>zeev: it says you don't have enough free extents available in the volume group. Check with vgdisplay how many extents there are available in that volume group
04:21<JackShephard>hello can i delete DHCPDISCOVER startup. prevents the PC to boot faster. so at the end says no offers dhcpdscvr
04:21<zeev>rtheys: Free PE / Size 0 / 0
04:22<zeev>rtheys: there is a lot free space in /home... it is encrypted however
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04:23<zeev>rtheys: can encryption cause problems?
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05:21<rtheys>you have to shrink you home LV first before you can enlarge your / volume
05:21<rtheys>you have to shrink the filesystem on the home LV first as well
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05:22<rtheys>ah, zeev already left...
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05:53<Fotografiona>Hi, anybody have an idea where I find a more detailled listing of my memory used/available than with df -h?
05:55<themill>df tells you nothing about memory
05:55<grove>Fotografiona: df reports usage statistics about discs, not memory. If it is disc usage you're interested in, du is probably the answer
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05:55<Fotografiona>alright, didn't notice that. thank you
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06:10<Yossi>how do I verify the ISO I just downloaded...having trouble figuring at this small thing from the site ?
06:11<Yossi>sure, I did that, but where is the md5sum to compare it too ?
06:12<Fotografiona>oh alright, I found baobab
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06:12<towo^work>Yossi, on the download page?
06:12<towo^work>Yossi, if not, no one can help
06:14<themill>Yossi: it's in the same directory as the iso image
06:14<Yossi>from the get go, even before downloading it, I have been looking all over for the md5sum...oh, I'll check
06:15<Yossi>all I see is the ISO file
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06:17<Dmitry>Yossi, what are you downloading & from where?
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06:18<themill>Yossi: the exact URL of the thing you're downloading would help us
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06:33<ayaka>it seems that I haven't sync ntp time, so it pause me boot, how to let it stop try soon
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06:35<Yos>sorry guys, pc froze then had to go eat
06:35<Yos>the exact link is
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06:36<Yos>themill, ^^
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06:38<themill>Yos: yeah, so in the same directory
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06:40<ayaka>I don't want to pause by ntp, how to let it only wait 5 seconds
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06:44<Yos>hm, don't there a .torrent for amd64 netinstall ?
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06:45*hhhaaa yawns
06:46<Yos>I stumbled accross it once but can't find it now
06:47<hhhaaa>is tor browser bundle available in Debian repositories?
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06:49<hhhaaa>is there anybody out there?
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06:49<babilen>hhhaaa: What would constitute a "tor browser bundle" ?
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06:50<hhhaaa>its available at
06:50<hhhaaa>tor and vidalia packages are also available at debian repos
06:51<hhhaaa>but TBB is not or at least I can't find it
06:52<Sevet>doesn't seem to be, although looks like tor project is looking at trying to get it packaged for debian
06:52<babilen>hhhaaa: It is not packaged and I don't see why it should. Installing tor, iceweasel and xul-ext-torbutton gives you everything you need to use tor.
06:52<hhhaaa>hhhaaa: It is not packaged and I don't see why it should. Installing tor, iceweasel and xul-ext-torbutton gives you everything you need to use tor.
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06:52<Sevet>babilen: torbutton is deprecated
06:52<babilen>Sevet: In favour of?
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06:53<Sevet>babilen: in favour of tor browser bundle. i'm just reading :)
06:55<Sevet>hhhaaa: but that doesn't actually mean torbutton won't still work...
06:55<babilen>Sevet: Well -- I am currently not willing to spend the time to read the complete ticket, but I foresee a number of problems with packaging TorBrowser in a policy compliant way. I also don't think that it is the correct approach, but meh.
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06:58<Yos>Yeah, the guys on #Tor highly recommend TBB over the button now
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08:01<dupondje>any recommendations for a Jabber/XMPP server? jabberd14 seems to be removed
08:02<pparadis>+1 for ejabberd
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08:04<daemonkeeper>Actually, ejabberd is a spawn of hell. But probably the best jabber server out there.
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08:05<pparadis>hah, agreed on both counts ;). most of the people i know running xmpp services use it. i know a couple of people using openfire, but last i used it, it had turned into a pile of fail, and i used ejabberd instead.
08:05*dupondje is apt-getting :)
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08:29<WakiMiko>is the "hold" package status not shared between dpkg, apt and aptitude?
08:29<themill>aptitude has its own idea, yes.
08:30<babilen>!tell WakiMiko -about hold
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08:32<dupondje>ejabberd is cool, could even import my jabberd14 roster :)
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08:39<TobiX>dupondje: I'm currently thinking about migrating away from ejabberd, cause it's overkill for ~4 users ;)
08:40<TobiX>Thinking about Prosody: ...
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08:42<dupondje>ejabberd doesn't take much resources
08:42<dupondje>so not really an issue.
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08:42<daemonkeeper>It takes a shitload of human resources. It's written in Erlang. Try to debug it.
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08:44<dupondje>Prosody is also in Erlang :)
08:45<dupondje>seems like all XMPP servers are in Erlang
08:45<dupondje>or java :p
08:45<Zaba>prosody is in lua, not erlang
08:45<babilen>What's wrong with Erlang?
08:46<daemonkeeper>It's Erlang.
08:46<daemonkeeper>The problem of Erlang - from a user's perspective - is mostly its error messages are unreadable.
08:46<daemonkeeper>I don't even want to image to program it.
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08:48<Zaba>seems normal that error messages don't make sense to somebody who doesn't know the language
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08:50<daemonkeeper>There is a slight difference between C yelling "foo: No such file or directory" and Erlang: {"init terminating in do_boot",{undef,[{foo,start,[]},{init,start_it,1},{init,start_em,1}]}} Crash dump was written to: erl_crash.dump init terminating in do_boot ()
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08:50<TobiX>Zaba: Yes, but Erlang error messages litter the ejabberd error log and you have to wade through the Erlang-noise before you find the "real" error message... (Just my experience)
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08:52<Zaba>then clearly the developers hadn't cared much about users making sense of error logs. Well, neither are stack traces from, say, C programs terribly readable to users.
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08:58<TobiX>Zaba: Well, most of the time you won't get Stack Traces from C programs, they just crash ;)
08:58<Zaba>even better!
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08:59<TobiX>Zaba: But those will be real programming errors, not trivial matters like "config file not found" or "cerificate file has wrong permissions"
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09:02<TobiX>In all honesty, I can't put my finger on why programs in some langages tend to create "more cryptic" error messages then others...
09:03<TobiX>Throwing a Java stacktrace to an user is not very helpful, either...
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09:08<Yos>If I select to install a graphical environment, how to I start it after loging on? I tried startx but just got a black screen and I tried 'gnome' and 'gnome-shell'
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09:12<babilen>Yos: How did you install said graphical environment and which "graphical environment" did you install?
09:12<JackShephard>what is command to boot kwin window manager on boot?
09:12<Yos>I used the netinstall minimal cd 64 bit using the graphical installer
09:13<babilen>Yos: Ok, and?
09:13<Yos>when it asked me which packages to install, I checked the GUI
09:13<babilen>Yos: You mean that you installed the desktop task?
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09:13<Yos>no, what's that ?
09:14<JackShephard>babilen can i start kwin in gnome?
09:14<Yos>I saw x and gnome getting installed
09:14<babilen>Yos: Why do you think that you installed a graphical environment ?
09:14<themill>JackShephard: please just ask the channel not a specific person, and please don't ask in multiple channels at the same time
09:14<TobiX>JackShephard: You mean the kdm display manager? Or do you want to start one destop session for one specific user at boot?
09:15<babilen>Yos: And where are you in the installation procedure right now?
09:15<Yos>well, let me ask a different question, if I get a black screen after entering 'startx' that means that x is installed, correct ?
09:15<JackShephard>i want start kwin window manager in gnome on the boot. what is the command
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09:15<Yos>babilen: I have finished the install
09:16<TobiX>JackShephard: Do you want to start kwin or kde?
09:16<babilen>Yos: And what happens when you boot? What do you want to happen?
09:16<TobiX>I don't think it's possible to use kwin in gnome...
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09:16<JackShephard>kwin in gnome.. in kde is default
09:17<themill>JackShephard: you're not making any sense. You're mixing up display managers with window managers and asking for a different thing each and every time.
09:17<Yos>babilen: I want it to go first of all to shell as it does now...but then I want to start gnome-shell
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09:17<themill>JackShephard: if "kwin --replace" works at all, then you should be able to set that as the default somehow. Ask the gnome people..
09:18<Yos>are gnome people called 'gnomes' ?
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09:18<TobiX>JackShephard: AFAIK gnome-shell is bound to mutter, so using another windows manager will cause chaos...
09:18<babilen>Yos: Ok. In that case create a suitable ~/.xsession file with, for example, "exec ck-launch-session dbus-launch gnome-session" (last line) andd run "startx"
09:19<TobiX>JackShephard: If you are using gnome fallback, it might be possible to replace metacity with kwin...
09:19<JackShephard>i don't use gnome shell, i use gnome 2
09:19<TobiX>JackShephard: But I still fail to see why you would want to do that...
09:19<JackShephard>i use gnome 2 and also kde
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09:20<JackShephard>because it conflicts with kwin compiz is already installed, since I also kde
09:21<TobiX>ANd compiz conflicts with kwin, since they are both window managers...
09:21<babilen>JackShephard: What are you *really* trying to do?
09:21<JackShephard>but i removed compiz
09:22<JackShephard>in practice, I use the kde desktop effeddi, even in gnome
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09:36<yosef>How do I detach and re-attach with byobu ?
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09:40<Yos>I wonder if I could adapt to a cli
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09:46<abrotman>why not?
09:48<Yos>abrotman: do you happen to know how I can detach and re-attach byobu ?
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09:51<abrotman>sorry, i use screen
09:51<abrotman>check the man page
09:51<Yos>yep, just found out it is the same as for screen
09:51<abrotman>Yos: which version of linux is this?
09:52<Yos>this is Debian 6.0.5
09:52<Yos>fresh install
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09:53<Yos>I hate to mess it up doing stupidity
09:54<babilen>Yos: Read and learn
09:54<Yos>how without a gui ?
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09:55<abrotman>Yos: w3m or links
09:56<Yos>apt-get install w3m ?
09:56<abrotman>might already be installed
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10:01<pparadis>abrotman: ;)
10:02<abrotman>who what?
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10:03<abrotman>oak ?
10:03<pparadis>abrotman: see, browsing the site in a terminal!
10:03*pparadis ducks
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10:04<pparadis>Another Day, Another Problem Solved (TM).
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10:11<lja>does anyone know how to remove the annoying "debian comes with no warrantly blah blah" message whenever I log in?
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10:12<rev> cat /etc/motd
10:12<rev>that one?
10:12<lja>yes that one
10:13<lja>I keep deleting the contents of the file, but then it keeps coming back when I reboot
10:13<rev>"Debian has a peculiar way of handling /etc/motd. The motd is updated at every reboot, in a boot script"
10:13<lja>yeah just read that
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10:14<lja>seems like its deliberate
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10:14<rev>short answer, change motd.tail
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10:15<lja>thank you
10:15<lja>that has been annoying me for months
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10:17<lja>yep it works now
10:17<lja>another thing i've noticed, when I log in, theres 2-3 seconds of waiting before the shell prompt
10:17<lja>is there a way to remove this delay?
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10:27<abrotman>lja: /etc/issue you mean?
10:27<dpkg>[motd] the Message Of The Day. /etc/motd is a symbolic link to /var/run/motd on Debian systems and is updated each boot. See "man 5 motd" and "man 5 motd.tail" for further information (Squeeze users, see also Debian bug #541455). Make /etc/motd a symlink to some other file to disable autogeneration.
10:27<lja>ive solved the motd problem
10:27<abrotman>not sure which part generates that .. haven't wanted to change it in ages
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10:27<lja>im stuck on the login delay now
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10:28<chris9>has anyone here played minecraft on debian squeeze?
10:28<haylo>when backing up /home, is it ok to be inside of the users Xorg, or should i back out and do it as root. I mean are some of the /home files being used, thus preventing them from being copied correctly? or is it allright to copy /home while in it?
10:28<abrotman>lja: RDNS
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10:29<lja>i dont think reverse dns lookup applies to my login problem..
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10:31<lja>oh cmon, installing wine has now somehow disabled the option to change window manager themes
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10:31<lja>im sick of all these desktop environments not working together
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10:36<lja>I think i might install crunchbang, its based on debian but has a desktop that isnt gnome
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10:37<babilen>lja: Debian packages a lot of desktop managers and desktop environments -- you do not have to use Gnome.
10:37<lja>I know I know, ive been using lxde for my current debian install, but im fed up with installing a program that then seems to somehow break my DE
10:38<lja>for example, I just installed wine and it somehow managed to remove the theme settings and replace it with some horrible mix of kde and gnome
10:38<lja>I dont know how
10:38<lja>but it happens too often
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10:42<SynrG>lja: not on squeeze, surely?
10:42<lja>Yes im on squeeze
10:43<SynrG>i don't understand how what you described is possible
10:43<lja>well i can provide screenshots if you dont believe me :P
10:43<SynrG>did other packages get upgraded/removed or whatever when you installed wine?
10:43<SynrG>no, i believe you. i am just not sure your conclusion is correct ("wine broke my DE")
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10:43<lja>Dont know, I didnt see any mention of gnome packages from aptitude when I installed wine
10:43<lja>but by broke I mean, it has replaced the normal settings windows of lxde
10:43<SynrG>i believe that it happened when you installed wine. i just don't see how it could be a wine problem
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10:44<lja>with something that looks _like_ kde/gnome
10:44<SynrG>wine does not know about your DE
10:44<SynrG>your DE doesn't know about wine
10:44<lja>I know, thats what I dont understand either
10:44<lja>perhaps it installed some different gtk packages
10:44<lja>hmm :/
10:44<SynrG>look through /var/log/dpkg.log for clues?
10:45<lja>I will when I boot it again, I dual boot my system
10:45<SynrG>wine packages from squeeze or from a third-party source?
10:45<SynrG>and if from a third-party source, designed for squeeze, or designed for some other release?
10:46<lja>I did "aptitude install wine"
10:46<lja>so presumably it got the official debian packages
10:46<SynrG>assuming you only had official sources in your apt sources, yes
10:46<lja>I havent modified them in any way
10:46<lja>the sources.list I mean
10:47<lja>all I have done to that file is remove the reference to the install cd
10:47<SynrG>pastebin it please
10:47<lja>will do when I boot it again
10:47<SynrG>i may be at lunch by then though
10:47<lja>ok sure
10:47<SynrG>presumably someone else here can pick up the investigation
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10:50<gdb>That's actually a feature I'd love to see in d-i. That if you select to use a network mirror, the installed sources.list either doesn't have a reference to the CD or it's there but commented out. Does anyone *not* immediately comment that out first thing after installing?
10:51<lja>the stupid thing, when I install from the debian cd, the sources.list has 2 lines refering to the cd, one commented out
10:51<gdb>Yes, I've always found that odd, too.
10:51<lja>Its annoying
10:51<haylo>cmon you think it is ok to be home when you copy it? or better to leave?
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10:53<haylo> /home , if you copy it and all its .dotfiles, is it ok to be standing in it using the users xorg, of should i log out and copy it as root or as another user
10:54<SynrG>gdb, lja: if you're using the full set of CDs and installing offline (e.g. doing a careful setup of the box before it gets exposed to the big, bad network) then having apt point at the CD is exactly what you want
10:54<SynrG>as you want to iterate on package installs from the CD before it goes 'live'
10:54<lja>I tell it to use a network mirror during the install so it gets the updates
10:54<gdb>I'd suggest doing it as root with no one logged in (even single user if possible)
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10:55<gdb>SynrG: Yes, that's right. I'm talking about the installed system, after the first reboot. If you've used a mirror, it's already patched and since it's on the network you don't need to CD reference anymore.
10:55<gdb>don't need the*
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10:55<SynrG>i'm talking about the installed system after the first reboot too
10:56<SynrG>install, reboot, post-install configuration
10:56<SynrG>(including installing packages from CD)
10:56<SynrG>when you're happy, plug into the network, go "live", remove CD lines, update from network
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10:56<SynrG>the problem is, the installer can't know when you're ready to do that
10:56<gdb>SynrG: If you're installing offline, then you're not using a network mirror during the installation.
10:56<SynrG>so it's left to you, the admin, to handle on your own
10:57<gdb>SynrG: If you use a mirror, then you're already connected to the big bad network. The CD line is then extraneous.
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10:57<SynrG>not necessarily. we don't know you're not on a private net with its own mirror
10:57<lja>ive never heard of that... why would you want that?
10:58<lja>for making your own packages?
10:58<SynrG>i'm not saying it can't be solved, just that it probably isn't as straightforward to solve as you think
10:58<SynrG>lja: no. got a whole lab full of systems. use the mirror to install them all.
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10:59<SynrG>i do agree it's a pain to have to do this manual step, though.
10:59<gdb>I guess I just can't see a case where one would install using a mirror (where much of the install ends up being from the network rather than the CD) and then wanting to continue to install packages from the CD post first-boot.
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11:00<SynrG>just because you can't see it doesn't mean the case doesn't exist. the whole world does not have broadband.
11:01<SynrG>those of us who have it often behave like it does
11:01<gdb>SynrG: The person installing using the mirror just installed most of the system off the network. If one installs without a mirror, the sources.list file doesn't even point to a repository after the installation.
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11:01<SynrG>"most of"? i don't think so.
11:02<SynrG>remember, i started by saying "if you have the full CD set"
11:02<TobiX>chris9: Yes, it runs. Even with OpenJDK.
11:02<SynrG>even if you only have CD1, provided most of what you need is on that CD ...
11:02<SynrG>that's still not installing "most of the system" off the network
11:02<SynrG>(assuming also your CD is for the latest point release)
11:03<SynrG>so that's, CD1 stuff + security updates (small) + stuff not on CD1 (possibly also small)
11:03<lja>Hmm I see, so how do you setup a system to host packages for the lab to install from?
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11:04<lja>you can use aptitude to host as well?
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11:04<gdb>Well, as of right now, even using the latest point release, very large packages like Eclipse, OpenOffice, Iceweasel, and so on are all coming off the network. They've all been patched since that release. And if we're assuming no broadband, someone is likely *not* using the latest point release (since they've likely downloaded Debian at some point in the past are may even be using .0 images).
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11:05<gdb>I do understand what you're saying, I totally get it. I think we're not disagreeing so much on "is it necessary" but more on the "is it a big deal?" question.
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11:05<lja>What d-i really needs is a question at the end asking if you would like the cd reference or not
11:06<gdb>To be honest, I don't think it's a big deal either way, but I think the impact in "the general case" is lessened by commenting out the line correctly in d-i for post first-boot, to get the system that was installed using the network, now pointed to the network only for packages.
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11:07<SynrG>gdb: fair enough. i think we've taken the discussion beyond the tolerance of the populace here for OTness, in any case. :)
11:07<gdb>That'd work, too, lja. Perhaps with some instruction along the lines of "If you have a broadband Internet connection, it is recommended to select Yes here. If you have a slow link and will continue to install software from physical media, it is recommened you select No here." or somesuch.
11:07<gdb>Indeed! :-)
11:07<lja>yeah that would be better
11:07<SynrG>good luck with that wishlist bug, btw
11:08<lja>when I first started with debian, it was a pain for me to keep having to find the CD I installed from. Im sure im not the only one
11:08<SynrG>not being facetious. it won't get action otherwise
11:08<lja>but would t be considereda bug?
11:08<SynrG>(and do search to see if it is filed already first!)
11:09<gdb>SynrG: I know you're not. I also know that in any given d-i development cycle, that's going to be #last in priority. ;-)
11:09<SynrG>wishlist severity, yes. (wishlist is used for feature requests)
11:09<gdb>lja: Yeah, wishlist bugs are feature requests.
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11:09<lja>I did not know that
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11:11<gdb>BAsically it's opening a bug not against "it breaks" but against "I'd rather it" or "I don't like how it". It's an "issue" so it's a "bug" but it's not breakage so it has a severity of "I wish".
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11:14<lja>i see
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11:15<scientes>but performance issues are bugs
11:15<scientes>there is also the "it is SUPPOSE TO" or make to do... X
11:15<scientes>rather than "i'd like"
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11:54<grummund>"Can't locate Data/Dumper/ in @INC ..."
11:54<grummund>is there a debian package that will provide that?
11:54<Zaba>grummund, libdata-dumper-concise-perl
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11:56<TobiX>dpkg: tell grummund about apt-file
11:56<grummund>apt-file can find perl modules?
11:57<grummund>Zaba: thanks
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11:57<TobiX>grummund: Well "Data/Dumper/" is a path that apt-file can find, so yeah.
11:58<pparadis>grummund: also, a quick "apt-cache search data | grep dumper | grep perl" can yield useful results, especially if there might be more than one version or other similar modules you might actually be interested in.
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12:02<Yorhel>How reliable can I assume the last modification times on debian mirrors to be? Can I assume that the last modification time of a <packagename>.dsc file on a random mirror represents the time that the source package has been created?
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12:03<Yorhel>Are there other methods to get the creation date of a source package? The indices on a debian repository don't seem to cover that :(
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12:03<TobiX>grummund: Also, there was once a tool to watch a program running and install packages providing missing files... But I can' t remember the name
12:04<TobiX>Yorhel: has upload timestamps...
12:05<themill>Yorhel: upload date != creation date, of course. And I can't promise that files are handled or mirrored in such a way that timestamps are preserved. The package QA page news section is probably the best place to look. Why do you want this information, btw?
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12:06<Yorhel>Data mining :) So I'd prefer to rely only on the information available on the repositories themselves
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12:06<themill>Yorhel: this information is in the Ultimate Debian Database and also available from the who-uploads utility (that just looks at
12:06<themill>Yorhel: if you're data mining, then you probably do want to look at udd.
12:06<Yorhel>Also thought of parsing the debian changelog for each source package, but that's not too easy to get from a repo :(
12:06<TobiX>Yorhel: This infos are generated from the mailing list debian-devel-changes-, so you can probably parse the mail archive of that...
12:06<dpkg>The Ultimate Debian Database (UDD) is an effort to gather lots of useful information about Debian from a variety of sources and stuff it all into a giant PostgreSQL database.
12:07<TobiX>Right, the UDD :)
12:07<Yorhel>themill: oh, that looks interesting, I'll have a look at that.
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12:08<themill>Yorhel: the upload_history table will be of most interest
12:08<TobiX>themill: It's not public, right? So you have to import the dump if you are no DD?
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12:17<proc>Is testing always going to be called wheezy?
12:18<Maulkin>proc: Nope.
12:18<themill>no. In a a few months time, it will have a new name and wheezy will be our stable release
12:18<proc>Was thinking when Debian 7 comes out in a few years
12:18<Maulkin>(A few months...)
12:18<proc>dang that fast
12:19<Maulkin>It's been about 18 months since the last one...
12:19<proc>Time flies when your having fun =)
12:19<@Ganneff>Maulkin: ... would be nice to take another 18
12:19<Maulkin>pparadis: Hrm?
12:20<Maulkin>Ganneff: Depends if people keep uploading new toolchains...
12:20<gdb>The last 2 releases have been in February, and the target is 2 years (issues permitting) so I'd expect Wheezy to release around Feburary 2013.
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12:20<proc>I cant crash stable no matter how many fuzzers and crap I though at it. Why would squeeze need another 18 months?
12:21<Maulkin>gdb: Personally, I'd like to see it out before that.
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12:21<proc>So if my repos are using testing then it will truly be a rolling dist I am using.
12:21-!-kenifanying [~kenifanyi@2001:250:1003:f014:225:64ff:fe5e:2076] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:22<Maulkin>proc: sort of. Though I would note that this channel only really supports stable.
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12:23<proc>I know. was just a general question. I have 2 stable (squeeze server) 3 testing desktops. Was just wondering what to expect.
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12:25<proc>Is Debian the only Dist that has a clean kernel? As far as I know it is by default?
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12:27<Maulkin>proc: clean kernel? ie: No firmware etc?
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12:27<proc>Maulkin yeah as in blob free kernel. I know the FSF has some dist I tried out a few years ago but it was not that great.
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12:30<gdb>proc: While not really topical here, if you do want to try one of the FSF blessed distros, Trisquel is great. I'll stick with Debian myself, but I do see a desire for 100% Free, FSF blessed releases.
12:31<proc>gdb was Trisquel I used :) Debian became my baby thoughl.
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12:33<proc>My gosh. I am looking at Alan Cox's code in the kernel. That dude can code!!!
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12:35<scientes>proc, what file?
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12:36<proc>scientes some of the TTL layer
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12:37<scientes>proc, the other day i noticed that the ncurses library has a buggy test that leads to it using select() instead of poll() on every single linux distribution, and this has gone unnoticed for years
12:39<proc>scientes for real? Did you file a bug report? ncurses ... are you sure. A lot of ppl look at that code.
12:39<scientes>I am absolutely sure, and yes i filed a bug report
12:39<scientes>i guess i should also file it upstream
12:39<Zaba>what's wrong with using select instead of poll?
12:40<scientes>its slow
12:40<Zaba>they're different interfaces to the same functionality
12:40<scientes>but select() is poorely designed and really slow
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12:41<proc>Now you got me a little curious. Can you send me a url for the report.
12:42<scientes>bug 676461
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12:44<proc>damn good catch scientes
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12:46<Zaba>scientes, there isn't really a substantial performance difference, not for any use case ncurses could possibly hit, anyway
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12:49<scientes>well it should be using libev
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12:50<scientes>the problem with select is that it always times out
12:50<scientes>or is that just another timer going off that the program set?
12:51<pparadis>scientes: select and poll both have timeout values.
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12:52<gdb> -- there's other good discussion actually in the bug report itself
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12:53<pparadis>also, ncurses is used on a huge variety of platforms. in the interest of code maintainability and portability, i don't see why using libev would be good here.
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12:53<scientes>libev has select and poll backends
12:53<scientes>its very portable
12:54<pparadis>that it may be, but is it already present on all those platforms, and is the retooling worth it for what we're doing here?
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12:57<scientes>I'm getting permission denied errors even when building packages with -rfakeroot
12:57<scientes>and the file it is trying to copy it to doesn't exist
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12:57<scientes>and the parent directory exists (and is empty)
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12:58<scientes>i thought fakeroot was support to handle this? is fakeroot somehow broken on btrfs (???? that seems too wierd)
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12:58<scientes>error: /usr/local/lib/python3.2/dist-packages/ Permission denied
12:59<scientes>dpkg-buildpackage: error: fakeroot debian/rules binary gave error exit status 2
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13:02<darsie>Hi! Youtube/iceweasel crashed in fullscreen mode. I switched to a different virtual screen and killed firefox, but the fullscreen window on screen 1 is still there. How can I get rid of it (without restarting X?
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13:03<themill>scientes: that's not the real error...
13:03<scientes>i also installed fakeroot-ng and it immediately exits
13:03<themill>also, wth is it doing things in /usr/local for?
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13:04<scientes>hey one thing at a time
13:04<craigevil>darsie, open top and make sure all iceweasel/firefox processes are killed
13:04<themill>scientes: that's your issue...
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13:04<themill>scientes: if anything it should be debian/tmp/usr/ ...
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13:04<scientes>i did that with the last 2 packages
13:04<scientes>i just thought fakeroot meant you could actually install system
13:05<themill>no... how would that work? If that were true, imagine how easy it would be to root a system with fakeroot
13:05<scientes>ahh it doesn't emulate the whole OS
13:05<darsie>craigevil: I have, to the best of my knowledge.
13:06<craigevil>darsie, look for plugin-container
13:06<darsie>craigevil: I was even able to start a new iceweasel which I quit then.
13:06*scientes just realized how stupid his assumption was...
13:06<ansgar>themill: You cannot root a system with fakechroot & fakeroot.
13:06<scientes>darsie, apt-get install htop
13:06<scientes>ansgar, he knows that
13:06<craigevil>darsie, ah weird then its the desktop screen that still shows iw even though its been killed? weird
13:06<ansgar>themill: (But install files to /usr/local with it.)
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13:07<scientes>ansgar, AHA! you can do it
13:07<themill>ansgar: you can pretend to install files to those locations but you cannot install them
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13:07<craigevil>fakeroot is usually used to build a package not to actually install
13:07<scientes>themill, of course
13:08<darsie>craigevil: no plugin* there:
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13:13<G-thang>Anyone know if its possible to create a wireless ap with hostapd without putting wlan into master mode ?
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13:17<pparadis>G-thang: no. (hasn't changed since yesterday)
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13:18<G-thang>damn man thats the only thing stopping me from formatting windows drive
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13:20<darsie>craigevil: xkill worked :).
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13:20<pparadis>G-thang: you could add another wireless device that is better supported.
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13:21<cesurasean1>how do i chown a file to multiple groups?
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13:22<pparadis>cesurasean1: this was covered yesterday as well, at great length.
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13:22<pparadis>cesurasean1: also, at the end of that conversation i believe it was determined that what you're talking about is off-topic for #debian
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13:23<cesurasean1>is it possible to chown multiple groups?
13:24<pparadis>cesurasean1: no, and it's offtopic.
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13:29<G-thang>ill try this first then ill resort to buying a new card :)
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13:36<grummund>Hi, Should apt-pinning work to pull in package from 'squeeze' to an old 'lenny' box ?
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13:37<craigevil>why not just upgrade it
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13:41<MTecknology>I'm trying to to use apt-cacher-ng and it seems to mostly work... The preseed given makes the installer want to use this sources.list ( but it yells at me over that second line.. the squeeze/updates It my acng.conf file I have this.. Remap-debian: /debian ; I guess that squeeze/updates doesn't exist, so how can I make the installer ignore it, or how can I fix it?
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13:44<pparadis>MTecknology: shouldn't that second line be for ?
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13:47<gdb>pparadis is correct, squeeze/updates is for while squeeze-updates is for ftp.*
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13:48<gdb>(the / vs. - in the identifier)
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13:49<grummund>Are these instructions still valid? -
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13:52<MTecknology>pparadis: thanks :D
13:52<pparadis>grummund: i prefer not to use "stable" and "testing" in sources.list. instead, i prefer to use actual distribution names. this can unintended "oopsies" when stable/testing change to new releases.
13:52<pparadis>MTecknology: no problem :)
13:52<pparadis>s/this can/this can prevent/
13:53<pparadis>grummund: also, have you checked in backports for particular packages you feel you must use a newer version of?
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13:53<grummund>pparadis: that's what i've done, but now aptitude wants to upgrade a gazillion packages
13:54<pparadis>first question is did you run apt-get update before you went further, after making sure apt preferences were in place?
13:54<pparadis>(or aptitude update)
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13:54<pparadis>please note that apt-get and aptitude don't automatically share the same data, either.
13:54<grummund>1) edit sources.list, 2) create preferences file, 3) aptitude update
13:55<themill>pparadis: with the exception of "hold", they do
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13:56<pparadis>themill: i don't routinely use aptitude (i'm a bitter holdover with apt-get mostly), but i recalled something about needing to inform aptitude about packages it didn't install.
13:56<themill>no... definitely not
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13:57<pparadis>i've gotta peruse my logs, there was something like that that came up in the last few days here... maybe it was the other way around, or i'm not clearly remembering exactly what the situation was.
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14:00<MTecknology>pparadis: bitter holdover?
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14:00<pparadis>MTecknology: the standard advice is to use aptitude, but i still use apt-get :)
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14:04<pparadis>themill: i remember what it was now. it was a situation involving autoremove and "aptitude keep-all"
14:05<themill>pparadis: aptitude tries to autoremove packages that are no-longer required, apt-get tells you that you should run apt-get autoremove to do the same. The data is the same.
14:06<pparadis>themill: oh i know, i had completely misremembered the premise that brought it up before and was struggling to get it straight in my head.
14:06<pparadis>i was just as confused then on why they wouldn't share the same data :)
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14:07<gdb>How do you find information on manually installed vs. automatically installed packages using apt-get?
14:08<grummund>Did lenny-backports move to or has it been pulled altogether?
14:09<@Ganneff>yes. no. look yourself?
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14:10<pparadis>gdb: apt-mark showauto will show automatically installed packages.
14:11<gdb>pparadis: Thank you! I didn't know of that command.
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14:11<gdb>I've often wondered why apt was broken into so many other commands.
14:12<gdb>Yes, I get the "unix philosophy" just not sure how it applies in this case.
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14:13<pparadis>grummund: you might want to pastebin your apt configs and the aptitude output you're seeing for someone to look at. that said, this is worth a read as well -->
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14:15<AlexLikeRock>hola gente :-)
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14:16<craigevil>anyone know what happened to mozilla-libreoffice
14:16<gdb>There used to be one?
14:16<grummund>pparadis: it'll turn into a discussion about 'why' ;)
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14:17<pparadis>grummund: in your apt preferences file for the pinning entries, do you have a=testing or a=wheezy ?
14:18<craigevil>gdb, yes up until libreoffice 3.5.4 , its still in testing but there isnt a package for sid
14:19<grummund>is it worth discovering where lenny-backports went to... i can't believe the repo was just deleted (all that effort gone).
14:19<gdb>Huh, I had no idea there was a connection between Mozilla and LibreOffice.
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14:20<gdb>grummund: -- looks like they moved to archvied.d.o
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14:22<grummund>yeah i was looking on archive bu missed the backports top level directory! thanks :)
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14:30<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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14:46<pparadis>grummund: lenny has a higher priority than squeeze?
14:46<pparadis>grummund: maybe it would be good to explain what you're trying to do here.
14:47<themill>I can't imagine that mixing lenny and squeeze is going to end well
14:47<grummund>pparadis: yes keep the lenny installation and only pull in squeeze as required
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14:47*retrospectacus cries
14:47<pparadis>that config is only going to pull things in from squeeze that you specifically tell it to, and you're indeed going to wind up with a very mixed up system, one prone to really creative breakage.
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14:48*themill just about manages to avoid mentioning "security support"
14:48<pparadis>grummund: why wouldn't you dist-upgrade the system to squeeze, so it would work as intended?
14:48<grummund>well with that config it wants to upgrade ~700 packages
14:48<grummund>which is what i don't understand
14:49<gdb>Because you're upgrading to a new release. Most of the operating system is newer in the newer release, so of course it's going to upgrade hundreds of packages.
14:49<grummund>isn't the pinning supposed to hold things as they are?
14:50<pparadis>grummund: lookig at your sources.list, you only have entries for lenny in there.
14:50<gdb>Yes, but if you're trying to install software from a completely uprevved operating system, most of the dependencies are going to need to come from that uprevved release.
14:50<grummund>i know the box needs to be upgraded wholesale but i would also like to understand this pinning business if i can.
14:51<pparadis>grummund: oh, sorry, i missed the squeeze entries in sources.list
14:51<themill>pinning is not just a rank ordering.
14:51<pparadis>what gdb just said here definitely applies. if you're trying to upgrade packages that have unmet dependencies, they are going to have to be pulled from squeeze, which probably involves other dependencies, etc.
14:51<craigevil>squeeze has different libc6, kernel, which will make it difficult to install packages from squeeze on Lenny
14:52<grummund>the package dependencies should be already met, shouldn't they?
14:52<pparadis>exactly, so this is going to wind up probably being a "mostly squeeze, but not quite" system anyhow this way.
14:52<craigevil>going to wind up a mostly broken system chances are
14:53<pparadis>grummund: when you say it wants to upgrade 700 packages, does it mostly want to pull those from lenny or squeeze? how updated was this system to begin with?
14:53<gdb>grummund: Likely no. For example, say lenny comes with libfoo.1 and that's depended on by foo.1. If you install squeeze's foo.2, that's going to pull in libfoo.2 -- anything else depending on libfoo.1 are then going to either break, or more likely having *their* versions upgraded to bar.2, baz.2, and so on.
14:53<craigevil>the systems are two years a part 700 seems about right
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14:53<grummund>starting with lenny and all dependencies satisfied
14:54<pparadis>right, is this just an upgrade of installed packages, or are you also trying to install something else?
14:54<themill>grummund: the squeeze packages have a higher priority (650) than the installed packages (100) so they get upgraded (see apt_preferences(5))
14:54<grummund>themill: ah, right!
14:54<pparadis>there we go, that's the bit that's doing it.
14:54<craigevil>i would upgrade the entire system, /msg dpkg lenny->squeeze
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14:55<grummund>yesyes i know
14:55<pparadis>absolutely, please just upgrade to squeeze. really.
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14:55<gdb>grummund: The reason this works well with backports is because the packages in backports are built against the libraries in the current stable release. So their dependencies are met by the regularly installed operating system. When you try to install packages from a new release, those dependencies are not yet met unless newer libraries are also installed -- which ends up upgrading all your system libs, which breaks other software in that release unless *they
14:56<craigevil>hell i run sid, but i wouldnt want to try fixing the problems of a mixed lenny/squeeze
14:56<grummund>yeah ok point taken
14:57<grummund>it actually turned into an execise to understand pinning
14:57<gdb>The upgrade from lenny -> squeeze is pretty painless. Start it and go to lunch. It will be mostly done by the time you get back (assuming you have broadband). ;-)
14:57<jchen>dist-upgrade is super painless
14:57<grummund>no i have a squeeze install already
14:57<jchen>unless you run into errosr
14:57<gdb>Ah okay
14:58<pparadis>themill: i had forgotten about the default priority 100 for already installed packages. thanks for the reminder :)
14:58<grummund>the updated packages i was looking for texlive-latex-*
14:59<pparadis>themill: of course it's right there in the apt preferences man page for me to miss ;)
14:59<themill>apt_preferences(5) isn't the most readable thing on earth
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15:00<pparadis>themill: i do love the following excerpt "Priorities (P) assigned in the APT preferences file must be positive or negative integers. They are interpreted as follows (roughly speaking):"
15:00<pparadis>the phrase "roughly speaking" should not be in a man page describing something like this. actually, it shouldn't be in any man page.
15:00<mpbsc>is it possible to get the "view on site" button on admin screens for non-page objects?
15:01<themill>yeah, "roughly speaking"... and that's the most important part of the page
15:01<pparadis>"hey man, it'll kinda work like this i guess, it's just your package management after all, what the heck, let's wing it."
15:02<pparadis>mpbsc: i do not understand what you are asking about.
15:02-!-markdiske [~47ef8349@2600:3c00::2:2424] has joined #debian
15:03<mpbsc>pparadis: i want the button to appear on something that isn't a CMS Page... it's a different kind of object
15:03<markdiske>i'm getting errors whenever i try to install anything with apt-get. 'ldconfig' not found in PATH or not executable & 'start-stop-daemon' not found in PATH or not executable .....any ideas?
15:03<pparadis>mpbsc: are you accidentally in #debian when you wanted to be in #django?
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15:03<mpbsc>oh my, i'm sorry, lol
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15:04<mpbsc>i actually wanted freenode too
15:04*pparadis has monty python flashbacks suddenly
15:04<Deltatash>Hi, I was wondering if someone here could give me a hand with a problem I have with my Menu system in Debian 6 Squeeze?
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15:05<themill>dpkg: tell markdiske about cross-post
15:05<vortek>hello :), wicd keeps saying Failed to obtaid ip adress. Can someone please help me?
15:06<Deltatash>guys I need to use LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libv4l/ /usr/bin/skype "$@" in terminal for skype to work correctly otherwise my video does not work. I thought I could Right click "applications" then "Edit Menus" then find skype in the menu and change its command from "skype" to LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libv4l/ /usr/bin/skype "$@"
15:06<Deltatash>but that does not work then I click on skype in the menu it throws up an error.. but if i type that in terminal it works.. any ideas please?
15:06<craigevil>Deltatash, edit the Exec= on either the skype bin or the skype.desktop
15:07<craigevil>or even better use something else :)
15:07-!-ratnick [] has joined #debian
15:07<Deltatash>I dont have it on desktop, sorry for noob question maybe where do I go to edit the Exec= for skype?
15:07-!-markdiske [~47ef8349@2600:3c00::2:2424] has quit []
15:07<craigevil>vortek, that happens to me when the signal isnt strong enough, but im borrowing the neighbors wireless
15:07<craigevil>Deltatash, which skype
15:08<Deltatash>Skype 2.2 Beta
15:08<craigevil>Deltatash, or locate skype
15:08<vortek>craigevil, hehe . im right next to my router though.
15:08<Deltatash>locate its install location?
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15:09<craigevil>vortek, try using wpa_passphrase
15:09<vortek>craigevil, ok.
15:09<craigevil>only time it did that was when it also gave me the bad Password message
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15:10<Deltatash>craigevil, what do I do when I find the skype install location?
15:10<craigevil>look for either the skype executable or skype.desktop
15:11<Deltatash>i found the executable
15:11<craigevil>open it in a text editor
15:11*craigevil doesnt use skype, i prefer jitsi
15:12-!-hele_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:12<AlexLikeRock>use Ekiga :D
15:12<Deltatash>craigevil, i non of my text editors seem to open it correctly
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15:12<Deltatash>gedit shows a blank text page and nano displays all these weird symbols :s
15:12<craigevil>probably need to be root
15:13<ratnick>its a binary
15:13<Deltatash>gedit stillcant open it even in root
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15:14<Deltatash>nano will open it but its filled with weird symbols is this right?
15:14<themill>Deltatash: /usr/bin/skype is not the thing you want to be editing
15:14<bwah>yes it is
15:14<Deltatash>thats what I was told to edit :s
15:14<ratnick>its a compiled binary file
15:14<bwah>hello everybody §
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15:15<Deltatash>themill, maybe you can help? I need to use this in terminal LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libv4l/ /usr/bin/skype "$@" to enable my webcam in skype. but I dont want to type that into terminal everytime so I right click my menu and edit menus then I find skype and change its command from "skype" to this LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libv4l/ /usr/bin/skype "$@"
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15:15<Deltatash>but when I go into "applications" "Internet" throws up an error...any ideas how to incorporate this into my skype menu list LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libv4l/ /usr/bin/skype "$@" ?
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15:16<themill>your desktop environment should have a way of editing the menu items there -- that's the easiest way
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15:16<Deltatash>i done it the way it wants me to
15:16<Deltatash>but it doesnt seem to like this command LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libv4l/ /usr/bin/skype "$@"
15:17<Deltatash>but if I type that into terminal.. it works fine np no idea why it wont work when i add it to my menu :/
15:17-!-houms [] has joined #debian
15:17<themill>stick that command into a script in ~/bin/skype and the make your menu run that script instead
15:17<Deltatash>ohh ok
15:17-!-kaziem [] has joined #debian
15:18<themill>the launcher may not use sh to exec things but try to run the command directly
15:18<Deltatash>hmm need to look how to make a script
15:19<AlexLikeRock>skype non-free = Problems closeds
15:19<Deltatash>script will start with this line yeah "#!/bin/bash" ?
15:19<themill>Deltatash: mkdir ~/bin; echo -e '#!/bin/sh\nLD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libv4l/ /usr/bin/skype "$@"' > ~/bin/skype
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15:19<Deltatash>ohh is that what I need? then direct skype in my menu to that ?
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15:20<themill>yeah, that should be enough
15:20<Deltatash>thanks :D ill try that now
15:20<ratnick>anyone know how to find: Logging of spoofed, etc packets
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15:21<pparadis>ratnick: you may wish to investigate tcpdump
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15:22<pparadis>ratnick: you may also be interested in packit
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15:25<Deltatash>themill I done what you said and i direct my skype in menu to the skype script in the bin folder
15:25<Deltatash>and I get this error "Failed to execute child process "/home/kurt/bin/skype" (Permission denied)" and skype doesnt start :s
15:25<Deltatash>any ideas what I done wrong?
15:25<ratnick>pparadis: net-acct?
15:25<themill>Deltatash: one last step, chmod a+x ~/bin/skype
15:25<Deltatash>ahh ok
15:25<Deltatash>thanks :)
15:26<ratnick>provides nacctd
15:26-!-sakal [~sakal@] has joined #debian
15:26<mxprm>give persmission a your files
15:26<ratnick>logs all traffic passing the machine it runs on
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15:26<Deltatash>so far so good themill skype opens form my applications menu np :D
15:26<Deltatash>now to see if video works still :D
15:27*themill hides behind pparadis
15:27<Deltatash>lol :P
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15:27<Deltatash>damn no one online to test it with xD well my parents will be online in 30 mins or so i will try then I assume it works since it worked just in the skype settings on "test video" ;)
15:28<Deltatash>Thanks a lot themill this is really usefull since I live in another country from my parents right now :)
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15:28<mxprm>in debian thes packges it's very outdated
15:29<mxprm>is the only problem I see
15:29<themill>Deltatash: I know the feeling. Have fun!
15:29<Deltatash>thanks :)
15:29<mxprm>but I like debian :D
15:29<Deltatash>ohh whilst im here im just curious if anyone has any idea on when the next stable release will be? like what date? we have been on 6 squeeze for a while now ?
15:30-!-Tzeechel1 [] has quit []
15:30<themill>Deltatash: wheezy gets frozen in the next couple of weeks. It will be ~6 months to the release
15:30-!-ajones [] has joined #debian
15:30<Deltatash>I know I could easily install the unstable debian to be more up to date (forgot its name now) but i like the comfort of knowing im stable :P
15:30<Deltatash>ahh ok thanks :D I look forward to it :D
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15:30<chealer>!tell Deltatash about wwwr
15:31<Deltatash>"The freeze that will lead to the release of Wheezy is currently planned for June 2012" nice :O thats this month :O
15:33<abrotman>awhile? it's been like 15 months
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15:35<Deltatash>huh ?
15:37<abrotman>squeeze was just released 15 months ago
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15:37<Deltatash>ahh ok
15:37<Deltatash>my mistake
15:37<Deltatash>feels longer lol xD guess im just being impatient :P
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15:38<Deltatash>Anyway! thank you for the help guys! ill cya later I gotta go get some stuff sorted :)
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15:42<Guest3198>how do i fix my computer
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15:49<dpkg>marco__: vedi
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15:50<ratnick>where is the X startup file?
15:54<towo`>what's a X startup file?
15:55-!-mxprm [~mxprm@] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
15:56<Jzebus>do you mean org.conf?
15:56<nono>ratnick: nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf
15:56<qpr>has anyone set up eclipse & android sdk successfully? i'm having issues having my device being recognized by android sdk, reports as ????????????no permissions, even though adb is running as root
15:56<ratnick>thanks again
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15:56<nza>qpr: i did, but i was using wheezy
15:56<babilen>!tell ratnick -about xorg.conf
15:57<babilen>!tell ratnick -about xorg.conf.d
15:57<qpr>nza: i've installed kernel 3.2, isn't that what wheezy is on?
15:58<craigevil>qpr, might ask in #android on freenode
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15:59<ratnick>thanks once more
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16:00<qpr>craigevil, yup, will give it a go once i try a couple more things
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16:01<craigevil>i doubt the kernel is the problem, more than likely its the version of eclipse
16:01<babilen>qpr: I would strongly suggest to ask this question in an Android developer channel. FWIW, you *might* have to tinker with your udev rules and include something along the line of
16:02-!-vortek [] has joined #debian
16:03<babilen>qpr: "udevadm trigger" to "activate"
16:03<vortek>Hi, i tried everythin with my wireless wpa wep nothing will let me connect. the sad part is it works in winblows. Can any one please help?
16:04<babilen>vortek: Which device and what did you try? (e.g. Output of "lspci -nn|grep -i network", error messages, ...)
16:05<qpr>babilen, thank you! i will try your suggestion. Before I started sudo ./adb start-server, but then I tried as root running /adb root, which recognized my device. i would like it so that I don't have to run it as root, so your suggestion is very much appreciated
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16:06<babilen>qpr: You don't have to run it as root. Just make sure your user is a member of the plugdev group and configure udev as detailed on
16:06<craigevil>vortek, firmware/drivers installed? /etc/network/interfaces correct? does the interface show up when you do iwconfig or iwlist scan
16:06<babilen>qpr: But I linked that before ..
16:06<vortek>babilen, all it says is my netwrok card, inteil corperation
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16:07<vortek>babilen, i tried wicd
16:07<craigevil>vortek, post the numbers at the end the ones in [ ]
16:07<babilen>Could you give me the alphanumerical identifier in [...] at the end? Did you install firmware-iwlwifi? Can you connect to the internet with that box right now? (i.e. Can you paste to, say, ?)
16:08<qpr>babilen, will try that now
16:08<babilen>qpr: Have fun :)
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16:08<vortek>babilen, 8086:008a
16:09<babilen>,pciid 8086:008a
16:09<judd>[8086:008a] is 'Centrino Wireless-N 1030' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel module 'ata_generic' in squeeze. See also
16:09<vortek>craigevil, i ment that for you
16:09<craigevil>,pciid 8086:1043
16:09<judd>[8086:1043] is '03b CUBX-L/E Mainboard' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules 'ata_generic', 'ipw2200', 'ipw2100' in squeeze. See also
16:09<babilen>vortek: You need a newer kernel for that box -- Please read and follow "/msg dpkg bdo" and "/msg dpkg bdo kernel"
16:10<vortek>i got that one
16:10<babilen>s/box/device :-/
16:10<babilen>vortek: Ok -- Did you install firmware-iwlwifi?
16:10<vortek>babilen, yes
16:11<babilen>vortek: Can you scan for networks with "ifconfig wlan0 up ; iwlist wlan0 up" ?
16:11<vortek>babilen, the kenel tells me during boot, that there might be a newer version though
16:11<vortek>one sec'
16:12<vortek>babilen, both commoands not founds, should i be root?
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16:15<vortek>babilen, is root i get this error message "iwlist: unknown command `up' (check 'iwlist --help').
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16:16<houms>vortek i believe it is
16:16<houms>iwlist wlan0 scanning
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16:17<vortek>my wireles network shows up when i run iwlist wlan0 scanning
16:18-!-hele_ [] has joined #debian
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16:18<vortek>but i have to be root to access iwlist
16:18<houms>"/sbin/iwlist wlan0 scanning
16:18<houms>full path should do it as nonroot
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16:19<vortek>yeap taht worked
16:19<vortek>and my wireless network shpwed up
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16:21<vortek>now what should i do>
16:22<houms>what are you trying to do sorry . i jumped in half way
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16:22<houms>ah you are trying to connect
16:22<vortek>wicd wont let me connect withanything , wpa or wep
16:22<houms>does this machine have a desktop environment or is cli only?
16:23<houms>and what Desktop environment?
16:23<vortek>i dont know :(
16:23-!-gkaklas [] has joined #debian
16:23<houms>gnome , kde,
16:23<houms>how do you get to the "menu"
16:23<vortek>the default one
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16:24<houms>the menu you know where you select an application for example
16:24-!-gkaklas [] has quit []
16:24<houms>how did you install debian?
16:24<vortek>its in the top left sys applications
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16:25<craigevil>vortek, have you tried network-manager
16:25-!-gkaklas [] has joined #debian
16:25<houms>so you are on gnome it seems
16:25<houms>+1 craigdevil
16:25<houms>vortek first things first i would suggest changing your router to open and testing on an open network first
16:25<vortek>i did
16:25<houms>and does it work
16:26<vortek>nothing works in debian, it does in windows though
16:26<vortek>i tried wpa wep open everything
16:27<craigevil>vortek, pastebin your /etc/network/interfaces
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16:30<craigevil>for comparison this is mine :
16:30-!-towo` [] has quit [Quit: so, nu isser wech]
16:30<craigevil>get rid of the crud networkmanager left behind, and add your wireless interface
16:30-!-flightplan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:31<vortek>what crud?
16:32<houms>vortek when you installed firmware-iwlwifi did you reboot or load the actual kernel module?
16:32<craigevil>line 6
16:32<vortek>houms, yes
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16:32<vortek>and how do i add my wireless
16:32<craigevil>there is nothing in interfaces for wicd to use, once you add it correctly it will work
16:33<vortek>line 6 counting from thetop?
16:34<vortek>craigevil, line6 counting from the top?
16:35<houms>holy crap vortek look at your pastebin
16:35<houms>line 6 as reference by pastebin
16:35<craigevil>it should look something like
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16:38<vortek>do i put my essid in there? and my wireless mode? im using a gui for that
16:38<craigevil> make sure to use the correct ssid and passphrase
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16:39<craigevil>copy and paste that ^
16:39<houms>i do not think you need to do that. generally no entries should be in /etc/network/interfaces for wicd to manage it
16:39-!-Acrolisx [] has quit []
16:39<craigevil>no wicd needs them networkmanager doesnt
16:39<houms>what you do need in wicd is make sure the interface name is defined for the wireless
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16:40<houms>I was under the impression that wicd writes the configs there but that they do not need to be pre-populated
16:40<houms>I think your wireless in wicd is probably empty
16:40<houms>meaning no interface is defined
16:40<vortek>im lost now
16:40<craigevil>wicd doesnt write to /etc/network/interfaces it uses its own config
16:41*vortek listens
16:41<houms>if it uses its own config then what is the point of putting in that info to /interfaces?
16:41*craigevil uses wicd, if there is no interface defined in /etc/network/interfaces wicd will not work
16:41<houms>vortek if you open wicd and go into the options does the wireless interface point to wlan0 and the wired connection to eth0?
16:41<houms>or is wireless blank?
16:42<houms>craig I am using kde and network-manager and network-manager does not have a single entry in my /interfaces file
16:43<houms>change it to read wlan0
16:43<houms>then wicd should be able to manage the wireless card
16:43<vortek>were is options i dont see it
16:43<houms>did you not just say blank
16:43<ex0a>do i need nginx-naxsi to be able to use naxsi rules or can i use them with nginx-full ?
16:44<vortek>houms, i thought you ment something else, it sees my wireless networks.
16:44<houms>click on preferences
16:44<houms>you are confusing the ish out of me
16:44*pparadis helps houms tuck his ish back in.
16:45<houms>pparadis got beer?
16:45<pparadis>houms: affirmative.
16:45<houms><- virtually smashes can over head
16:46-!-zem [] has joined #debian
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16:46<houms>perhaps i should have drank it first
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16:48<houms>vortek what seems to be the problem then? is it just connecting?
16:48<craigevil>vortek, follow the guide here>
16:50-!-jhutchins [] has joined #debian
16:51*pparadis wanders off to outline a research project on contemporary trends in osmotic absorption rates of cranially administered fermented beverages, selecting for information technology professionals engaged in support settings.
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16:53<houms>case study right here
16:53<houms>will work for fermented beverages
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16:54<retrospectacus>sign me up
16:54<ompaul>pparadis: vodka and red bull? ;-
16:54-!-ompaul [~ompaul@] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
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16:55*pparadis gets anheuser-busch, stolichnaya, and red bull gmbh R&D personnel on a conference call straight away. we're gonna need more supplies this kind of high impact research, boys.
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16:56<pparadis>omahn: i'm actually cheating by 4 minutes and having an amp + vodka right now.
16:56<pparadis>ompaul rather, but darnit he fell off.
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16:57<houms>must have been those wings that carried him outta her
16:58<houms>pparadis thans for the comedic relief, and the virtual beverages.
16:58<pparadis>houms: <3
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17:00<vortek>soory had to reboot my modem.
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17:01<vortek>you guys here still?
17:02<vortek>craigevil, you here stijj?
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17:02<retrospectacus>13:48 < craigevil> vortek, follow the guide here>
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17:03<retrospectacus>yer wlomc
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17:10<AlexLikeRock> me voy a comer muchachos :-)
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17:10<vortek>craigevil, i had to reboot my modem
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17:11<craigevil>ah so got it working?
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17:11<vortek>not yet
17:11<vortek>im lost as to what to put in interfaces
17:11<schoppenhauer>hello. I just noticed that in wheezy, it seems like php5-mysql depends on libmysqlclient16, but mysql-common depends on a newer version of the mysql-server. so phpmyadmin drops a warning that using another library version than the server version may cause unpredictable behaviour. i only found a launchpad-bug for this,, but no debian-bug
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17:12<craigevil>if the wiki is correct nothing other than lo
17:12<schoppenhauer>can this be fixed somehow?
17:12<qpr>babilen, thank you for the help. changing the udev rules worked like a charm
17:12<vortek>im still confused
17:12<craigevil>schoppenhauer, its Testing shit like that happens
17:12<schoppenhauer>craigevil: i know. just wondering whether I should file a bug report
17:13<Marillion>schoppenhauer: this channel is for *stable* only, please join #debian-next
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17:13<schoppenhauer>Marillion: ok
17:13<vortek>craigevil, im lost after essid i dont know what to put
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17:13<craigevil>broken depends is quite normal for testing
17:13<craigevil>vortek, says to only have loopback
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17:14<vortek>craigevil, can you walkk me through?
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17:15<craigevil>vortek, i know crap, i use ceni to seup my interfaces, just follow the wiki
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17:16<vortek>it confusing after essid
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17:16<vortek>i dont know what to put in for wireless mode
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17:17<vortek>craigevil, ill use ceni i guess?
17:20*vortek is lost
17:20<chealer>Marillion: it's not
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17:20<Marillion>chealer: what is your problem?
17:20<abrotman>Marillion: this channel is for Debian
17:21<abrotman>Marillion: -next specializes in testing/unstable, but those questions are welcome here also
17:21<retrospectacus>vortek: wicd is very simple. What did you try and what happened?
17:21<chealer>schoppenhauer: wheezy's php5-mysql depends on libmysqlclient18, not libmysqlclient16 anymore
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17:21<Marillion>abrotman: if you are say
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17:21<abrotman>I do, and I"m correct
17:22<vortek>when i try wireless nothing works all modes fail
17:22<chealer>schoppenhauer: oops
17:22<Marillion>abrotman: i mean i don't doubt it
17:22<abrotman>Marillion: that'd be like saying that we don't answer PPC questions because #debianppc exists, or X questions because #debian-x exists
17:22<retrospectacus>vortek: well if you choose all correct options according to how you have setup your wireless AP, it will work. But we don't know the answers, you do. Because it's your wireless.
17:22<chealer>schoppenhauer: sorry, ignore that. there is a new php5 in unstable which switched to MySQL 5.5
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17:23<Marillion>abrotman: ok, good to know
17:23<chealer>schoppenhauer: and it doesn't throw that warning (I believe, anyway)
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17:26<schoppenhauer>chealer: thank you. i will just upgrade to unstable (it is not a productive system anyway)
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17:37<vortek>dont know\
17:37<vortek>i had to reseat my moden cuase of conection problems
17:38<vortek>now wicd wont authenificate any thing
17:39<vortek>any ideas?
17:40<retrospectacus>not much we can do to help. It's your setup, you make it work. The wiki told you exactly what to do and it's worked for thousands before you
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17:40<vortek>i confused on the wikii
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17:41<vortek>can some one walk me threw it?
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17:43<retrospectacus>no, but if you ask a specific question or describe a specific problem you're having with a certain step we can probably help
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17:43<vortek>how do i find out if im part of netdev?
17:44<retrospectacus>run "groups" and see if netdev is in the output
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17:44<Marillion>vortek: or "id" say it
17:45<vortek>it is , good
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17:46<Marillion>but if you are adding some groups to your user, relogin are required
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17:54<vortek>im alredy added
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17:54<vortek>retrospectacus, still says bad password
17:54<vortek>im going to try on config my router to not use password
17:54<vortek>now i cant connect to my router lol
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17:55<yos>I'm on a fresh install of debian amd64 from using netinstall...I can get x to start with know problem and just installed do I start gnome ?
17:55<vortek>fixed it
17:55<vortek>now to get wireless working
17:56<Marillion>yos: with gdm
17:56<Marillion>yos: you would like a Display-Manager
17:57<Marillion>yos: and use tasksel, that make it for you
17:57<retrospectacus>yos: as root, ''service gdm start'' should do it
17:57<retrospectacus>if not might need to apt-get install gdm
17:58<retrospectacus>or use tasksel like Marillion says
17:58<Marillion>retrospectacus: on debian are enabled by default
17:58<yos>what is taskse1 ?
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17:58<Marillion>init 2 ;)
17:58<Marillion>yos: try it
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17:59<Marillion>yos: apt-cache show tasksel
17:59<retrospectacus>yos: it's the menu you saw during installation with "tasks" like ssh server, desktop env, database server, to choose to install
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18:00<Marillion>its like similar dselect
18:00<yos>should I choose gdm or gdm3 ?
18:00<pparadis>yos: hang on just a sec
18:01<Marillion>yos: you would like stable, if you must ask
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18:01<pparadis>yos: you can indeed use tasksel, no problem there, just thought i'd point out that this is what i do for a minimal gnome desktop environment -->
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18:04<vortek>now it wont obtain an ip adress
18:04<vortek>i did the steps in the guide , it wont coonect with passworkd it says bad password... and it wont conect with router encrytion tunred off. failt to grap an ip address. please help
18:06<craigevil>the bad password thing is a known bug, just keep trying it will connect sooner or later
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18:07<craigevil>one of my neighbors has open wireless, when i cant connect to one that uses a password i connect there then connect to the one with a password
18:07<pparadis>i once had a really craptastic wifi router that would periodically refuse valid connections until i rebooted it, too.
18:07<pparadis>it would do that sporadically, too, in that some machines could connect but others couldn't... it was a piece of crap, but rebooting it always fixed everything.
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18:08<craigevil>its too bad ceni isnt in the debian repos
18:08<vortek>ceni work?
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18:12<yos>woow, gnome looks way different now
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18:21<vortek>craigevil, were can i dl ceni? google aint helping me
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18:22<vortek>just a bunch of people installing it links
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18:40<themill>dpkg: tell craigevil about bobbitt
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18:44<craigevil>cant screw him up anymore than he already is
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18:45<craigevil>its a nifty package, wish a DD would pick it up
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18:50<Marillion>craigevil: the question is, why don't they developer offering to debian-mentor, and create theirs own repo ;)
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18:53*Marillion ...sorry, if my word order are wrong
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18:55<craigevil>Marillion, no clue the package has been around since sidux was created, it works quite well and simple to use
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18:59<johndoe_>I'm getting this error when trying to update brand new Debian system: I don't know how to fix it.
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18:59<devil_>Marillion: I will be looking for a sponsor for a bunch of our packages soonish. ceni will be the first one, and I know who will sponsor it. just have to find the time to do it properly
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19:00<themill>johndoe_: "brand new" systems don't have backports on them :) but you probably just need to "aptitude safe-upgrade"
19:01<Marillion>devil_: its nice to hear
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19:04<johndoe_>themill: that worked, thanks. I just used a backport because debian recommended it for iceweasel. I wonder why they did that?
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19:10<pparadis>uko: hi
19:10<uko>hello pparadis
19:11<uko>Im having some trouble to install grub2, does anyone know something about this
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19:12<pparadis>uko: it would be helpful if you could tell us what version of debian you're using, exactly what is going wrong, error messages you're seeing (pastebin them), etc.
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19:12<pparadis>!tell uko about anyone
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19:13<uko>in fact Im using lubuntu, it installed grub automatically
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19:13<pparadis>!tell uko about ubuntu
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19:13<uko>then when the computer starts it doesnt show anything on the monitor
19:13<dpkg>This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://
19:14<Marillion>uko: ubuntu its not a part of debian
19:14<uko>sorry i found this chat inside de soft of a cd called boot repair disk
19:15<Marillion>uko: yo, stupid result
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19:16<pparadis>Marillion: please don't insult people who happen to come here by accident.
19:17<Marillion>uko: the point is, ubuntu create their own package repo, but they don't change any software to her own irc channel
19:17<pparadis>Marillion: i think he's got the point.
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19:19<uko>ok I took note of what dpkg said, good luck
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19:20<Marillion>pparadis: don't worry, my explanation is for newbie, and many user don't understand that why
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19:21<pparadis>Marillion: your initial response was inappropriate and insulting. in addition, i think he understood the situation already. i would have actually tried to take this up with you in a friendly PM, but you appear to auto-block PMs.
19:22*pparadis goes to smoke
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19:23<Marillion>pparadis: why do not asking before query me, for those peaple is my _blocker_ - anyway
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20:08<grummund>interesting... i can 'stop' bind daemon as normal user but only start as root -
20:08<grummund>presumably something to do with the user bein in bind group
20:09<grummund>only noticed because i forgot to use sudo when stopping the service, and couldn't re-use the edited command history to start it again.
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20:12<Marillion>grummund: sudo have a time out service , when i remember correctly
20:12<Marillion>i believe that is why , 5 second i guess
20:13<grummund>it does, but only to request the password, you must still use the sudo command.
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20:13<grummund>unless "/etc/init.d/bind9 stop" is using sudo internally, which i doubt 9or at least hope not)
20:14<pparadis>if you're binding to low ports (lower than 1024), you have to have root privileges to do so.
20:14<pparadis>hat's why the start doesn't work as a "normal" user.
20:14<grummund>yeah, *that* part seems okay
20:15<pparadis>of course, it's always good to be careful about what users are allowed to stop things like named, too ;)
20:16<grummund>could be interesting for an admin without root priviledge to stop named "temporarilly" and not be able to restart it ;)
20:18<grummund>heh, same behaviour with exim4 :)
20:18<Marillion>but sudo is a part of root who excute anything
20:18<Marillion>by user ;)
20:19<grummund>Marillion: look again at the pastebin. sudo *not* required to stop the service
20:19<pparadis>as it pertains to sudo in general, to the extent that such behavior is permitted in /etc/sudoers, sure.
20:20<grummund>maybe it's because i have the user in group staff
20:20<Marillion>grummund: i misunderstand me, your sudo before is the that why, and you tell us, you are in the group of bind
20:20<themill>grummund: yes, membership of the bind group is probably enough to stop bind because it's done via rndc.
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20:20<grummund>themill: and exim?
20:20<pparadis>grummund: the "temporarily" scenario you described would be best described by this :) -->
20:21<themill>grummund: can you show me that actually worked?
20:21-!-devil_ is now known as devil
20:21*pparadis goes to install bind9 on a VM and test this.
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20:22<grummund>themill: ah no, it *says* it stopped, but exim is still running.
20:22<themill>yeah, that's what I thought
20:22<pparadis>grummund: that's actaully what i suspected was happening.
20:22*pparadis assumes the same is true for bind.
20:22<grummund>in the case of bind it does actually kill it
20:23<themill>the user has access to the rndc.key so is allowed to control bind
20:23<grummund>let's hope they follow the flowchart :p
20:23<Marillion>pparadis: we can again tolerate?
20:24<pparadis>themill: thanks, you just reminded me of this disasterpiece of a group with your last -->
20:24<pparadis>Marillion: sure thing, no hard feelings man, i know we're both just trying to help people :)
20:25<Marillion>pparadis: yeah, is my way :)
20:25<pparadis>Marillion: add me to your darned allow.list for PMs though, i'm pretty light on them anyhow ;)
20:26<Marillion>pparadis: ok, i make it in time, and i eill you let it, when done, ok?
20:26<pparadis>sure thing
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20:46<hyperspace>just installed xfce on a bare bone system. Need a good calculator that wont pull gnome junk. Any tips ?
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20:49<hyperspace>thx craigevil
20:50<lja>anyone know why when I login, theres a 2 to 3 second delay before the shell prompt appears? on squeeze
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20:52<hyperspace>craigevil you mean xcal ? Looking in the repos now.
20:52<themill>lja: do you have the bash-completion package installed?
20:53<lja>Dont know, it's a fresh standard install, and if that installs that package then yes i will have it
20:53<hyperspace>Heck come to think about it I can just run python in shell as a calc.
20:54<craigevil>x11-apps: /usr/bin/xcalc
20:54<craigevil>its probably already installed
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20:55<hyperspace>yup its installed
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22:04<icwiener>Hi, I have the problem that on the Github website (e.g., not all characters are shown. Instead I see these squares with codel like F030 in it. This happens in Iceweasel and Konqueror. For example on the right right next to the text "Public Activity" I see F034 in a box. Any idea what I would have to install to see thos chars?
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22:08<icwiener> shows only squares as well.
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23:10<pegasus>hey i'm after a security hardening script for debian squeeze, i found one months ago but have lost it.
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23:18<craigevil>icwiener, try installing ttf-ancient-fonts - Unicode Fonts for Ancient Scripts
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23:24<codemonkey1337>guys, I have a compling question for you.
23:24<codemonkey1337>I was talking to this CS graduate, and he told me that if I compiled programs with one kernel, then upgraded to a different kernel tree, that my compiled programs would no longer work, and I would have to recompile my software.
23:24<codemonkey1337>I know that this is true for kernel modules, and I'd imagine it is true for regular software as is it?
23:25<codemonkey1337>any type of reference would help too...I'm in kind of an arugment on a forum.
23:25<craigevil>nope, modules, drivers, thats about it
23:26<codemonkey1337>can you explain why then?
23:26<codemonkey1337>I mean what the difference between a software app and a kernel module...mean they use the same compiler.
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23:27<craigevil>software is independent of the kernel, only kernel modules rely on specific kernels
23:28<codemonkey1337>is the reason why is that they use something from those kernels (like an API that only exists for that kernel)?
23:28<craigevil>modules are built with the kernel headers for a specific kernel
23:29<codemonkey1337>okay, thank you very much...I will retract my post on the forum then
23:29<craigevil>packages/apps have nothing to do with the kernel in use
23:29<craigevil>hell if i had to recompile packages every time i updated my kernel i would never get anything done
23:32<codemonkey1337>okay, so a follow up question...why is it necessary to compile software then? If they work on the same kernel, why would a program that is compiled in a ubuntu distro not work with a gentoo box?
23:33<youlysses>Different package managers.
23:33<codemonkey1337>I'm not talking about a package, I'm talking about a binary exectuable.
23:33<codemonkey1337>Just a compiled program
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23:34<youlysses>Minute differences in a distros' base system?
23:34<codemonkey1337>such as dependences?
23:34<youlysses>Nah. If the system was missing dependencies, make would warn ya.
23:35<codemonkey1337>okay, thanks guys.
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---Logclosed Sat Jun 09 00:00:13 2012