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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-07-20

---Logopened Fri Jul 20 00:00:27 2012
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00:13<youlysses>How can one make permanent changes to a live-image, and is the performance really that much better than just installing regularly?
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00:39<nevyn>youlysses: to make permanent changes to a live-image usually requires unpacking it and recreating the iso.
00:39<nevyn>and performance of live-image's is usually substancially worse than installing linux
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00:51<youlysses>nevyn: Worse than if I was to install it non-locally, on a removable drive?
00:52<nevyn>so.. probably about the same.
00:52<nevyn>but the removable drive install would be more flexible and customisable.
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00:56<youlysses>nevyn: Is there a prefered method to get it on the drive? :-P
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00:56<nevyn>install it?
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00:56<dfguk>when you connect a video card to a tv using hdmi, does audio also get through the tv?
00:57<jm_>dfguk: depends, it needs driver support
00:57<youlysses>nevyn: Well yeah... :-P I meant like via the offical installer, chroot into it, or dd, etc ,etc
00:58<dfguk>okay, thanks
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01:24<dfguk>sorry for series of off topic questions, but I am sure you guys are expert on this. i5 cpu I am looking at does not have Hyper-Threading. Would it be too bad? This will primarily be a media PC. May be occasional java development and scientific calculations...
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01:24<jm_>dfguk: no, go for it
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01:27<nevyn>dfguk: hyperthreading is a crock anyway
01:27<nevyn>the i5 has two or 4 cores
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01:28<dfguk>this one has 4
01:28<jm_>i have older generation 4 core i5, works great
01:28<nevyn>dfguk: why were you worried about hyperthreading?
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01:28<jm_>yeah same as that one, but mine's i5-2500
01:29<dfguk>I was looking at specs, and wasn't sure what HT is, so did some googling and thought it may be bad not have it :)
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01:31<nevyn>so HT is a poor mans multicore
01:32<jm_>don't forget to install kernel and X from backports for best support
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01:36<dfguk>jm_, do you mean if I would go with squeeze instead of sid?
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01:37<dfguk>I wanted to buy this one, but would be too expensive
01:37<jm_>dfguk: right, I don't recommend sid if this is your first debian install
01:37<jm_>cooling in that thing must be appaling
01:38<dfguk>they even have a i7 version fanless
01:38<dfguk>assuming i7 would heat more than i3
01:38<jm_>that i3 is LV part, only 1.3GHz, but still
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01:47<dfguk>thanks for all the help
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04:27<mjt>I noticed that after some system update, my pc-speaker bell stopped working. Eg, echo -e \\g does not produce a beep anymore, hitting backspace in bash prompt does not either. Where to look to enable it?
04:28<mjt>xset q shows it is enabled
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04:29<nevyn>mjt: are you running gnome?
04:29<nevyn>does normal audio "work?
04:29<mjt>yes, everything but the bell
04:29<mjt>ie, regular sound card works fine, but the pc-speaker does not
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04:31<mjt>how running gnome changes the situation?
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04:32<mjt>I _think_ that it stopped working when i switched from lightdm to gdm3 (due to lightdm crashing and I needed an urgent solution).
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04:38<OdyX>mjt: pulseaudio / alsamixer muting the bell ?
04:38<mjt>is it _ever_ possible to mute it?
04:39<mjt>i don't see it in pavucontrol
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04:40<mjt>there are two devices - realtec audio card and hdmi output. no pc-speaker
04:40<mjt>pc-speaker works from console
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04:41<mjt>in X it doesn't work (no sound is produced) - tried a few apps, including xterm.
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04:50<gnugr>mjt:test speakers with this "speaker-test -D plug:surround51 -c 6 -l 1 -t wav" make sure you have alsa-utils installed
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05:08<clement_>hello everybody
05:10<clement_>could you help me please, i have problems with my sound, i can't configure my sound on desktop because my sound card is not detected by alsamixer. I get some errors at the computer starting like : amixer mixer hw0 load error invalid argument
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05:12<clement_>i looked for a long time on web but i didn't find anything about it.
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05:19<Maulkin>clement_: What soundcard is it?
05:19<Maulkin>clement_: And which version of Debian are you running?
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05:43<clement_>hello Maulkin i'm sorry, i didn't watch that you ask me thanks for your interest 00:05.0 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP61 High Definition Audio (rev a2) this is my audio device
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05:45<ectospasm>clement_: does lspci -k show that your audio device has a loaded kernel module?
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05:48<clement_>the command returns Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP61 High Definition Audio (rev a2) Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. Device 7597 Kernel driver in use: HDA Intel
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05:48<ectospasm>what does aplay -l show?
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05:49<clement_>my sound works but i can't configure it by greffons alsamixer
05:50<clement_>**** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices ****card 0: NVidia [HDA NVidia], device 0: ALC887 Analog [ALC887 Analog] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0card 0: NVidia [HDA NVidia], device 1: ALC887 Digital [ALC887 Digital] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
05:50<clement_>in english
05:50<Maulkin>So, your sound does work?
05:50<clement_>i would like to say graphical interface instead of greffons
05:51<clement_>yes but on desktop when i open the graphical interface at the top right i get an error
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05:51<ectospasm>GNOME or KDE (or something else...)?
05:51<Maulkin>What's the error?
05:52<ectospasm>What is the message you get
05:52<clement_>i get No graft volume control GStreamer and / or devices found.
05:52<clement_>but gstreamer is installed
05:52<clement_>and my sound card works
05:53<clement_>my impression is that sound card is not detected by alsamixer
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05:53<clement_>maybe i have to modify a configuration file but i don't know what file
05:54<corollax>Is there an ia32-libs package for libtheora0? I can't seem to find one.
05:54<clement_>i have reinstalled module alsa with module assistant
05:54<clement_>but no success
05:55<clement_>this commands "amixer -D Nvidia info" returns : ALSA lib control.c:882:(snd_ctl_open_noupdate) Invalid CTL Nvidia amixer: Control device Nvidia open error: No such file or directory
05:56<Maulkin>clement_: So... it sounds like you've messed something up...
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05:56<Maulkin>What does "alsactl init" do?
05:57<corollax>"init tries to initialize all devices to a default state. If device is not known, error code 99 is returned."
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05:57<Maulkin>corollax: Yes... I'm asking clement_ :P
05:57<ectospasm>that was too fast
05:57<corollax>Sorry :(
05:57<clement_>Unknown hardware: "HDA-Intel" "Realtek ALC887" "HDA:10ec0887,14627597,00100302" "0x1462" "0x7597" Hardware is initialized using a guess method /usr/share/alsa/init/default:26: control element not found /usr/share/alsa/init/default:26: control element not found /usr/share/alsa/init/default:41: control element not found
05:58<Maulkin>clement_: Have you read/followed ?
05:58<Calinou>ectospasm, Maulkin, frenchie spotted
05:58<Calinou>and this is how you port french words to english
05:58<Maulkin>Calinou: Ack.
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05:59<clement_>maulkin yes
05:59<clement_>maybe i have to follow the procedure by installing with realtek drivers
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06:00<Maulkin>clement_: It sounds like your self-compiled(?) drivers are an issue.
06:00<Maulkin> may have some clues...
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06:01<xylon>This page:
06:02<xylon>recommends to upgrade to Iceweasel 10.0 ESR but I can't work out how
06:02<Maulkin>"apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" should do it.
06:02<Maulkin>What version of Debian are you running?
06:03<Maulkin>And you're looking to get 10.0 from Debian Backports?
06:03<Maulkin>!tell xylon about backports
06:04<xylon>OK thanks
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06:10<clement_>thanks you a lot ectoplasm and maulkin
06:10<clement_>i will try to resolve my problem
06:10<clement_>good afternoon all
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06:11<unu`acolo>i have an issue with postfix
06:11<unu`acolo>Jul 16 10:21:46 mail postfix/smtpd[7170]: warning: hostname bla.bla.bla verification failed: No address associated with hostname
06:11<unu`acolo>i keep getting this warnings :-s
06:11<unu`acolo>what should i do ?
06:12<Maulkin>Have you tried looking in google for that warning?
06:12<unu`acolo>none solved my problem
06:13<Maulkin>Is bla.bla.bla the actual message, or are you hiding things?
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06:13<unu`acolo>Jul 16 10:21:46 mail postfix/smtpd[7170]: warning: hostname verification failed: No address associated with hostname
06:13<unu`acolo>this is the original message
06:14<Maulkin>So a quick look on google suggests that you can ignore them
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06:14<Maulkin>See and associated messages
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06:16<unu`acolo>already tried that
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06:17<Maulkin>unu`acolo: You've tried ignoring them?
06:18<unu`acolo>this is the reject line in
06:18<unu`acolo>smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, permit_sasl_authenticated, check_recipient_access mysql:/etc/postfix/, reject_unauth_destination
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06:52<mjt>gnugr: re speaker test: as I said, the sound card works fine. It is the built-in PC speaker, which has nothing to do with alsa, does not work.
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06:54<mjt>alsa works. and speaker-test works too. But it can't, and was never able to, output to a pc-speaker. At some point there was an oss driver for pc speaker, but it was terrible.
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07:23<DNx86>Hello, guys! There are Russians on this channel?
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07:24<dpkg>Это английскоговорящий канал, пожалуйста, говорите по-английски или посетите #debian-russian (Russian speakers please go to #debian-russian)
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08:09<clement_>hello again everybody
08:09<clement_>hello maulkin
08:09<clement_>hello ecospasm
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08:38<razekinn>good morning sirs. Is there a way to attach a kerberos 5 service into a ldap backend already in production with 2k users ? I mean.. all the process without 'pain' for any parts..
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08:54<keaza>Hey, can somone help me please?
08:55<devil>keaza: don't ask to ask
08:56<keaza>What do you mean by that devil>
08:56<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
08:56<devil>keaza: just ask your question
08:58<keaza>Ok basicly, last night somone hacked my home server. They deleted quite a bit of stuff that im not botherd about ... but they also deleted things from /usr/lub
08:59<keaza>lib* and when i try reinstall the software it just comes up with strings of errors
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09:01<keaza>it cant find the packages so it wont remove them or purge them, i have tried to copy files from another box of mine no luck
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09:10<grove>keaza: Try to be more specific about what's missing and what you have done. - And have you fixed whatever allowed them access, so you box won't get messed up again? And are you sure there are no backdoors or similar on your system?
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09:10<keaza>I have looked into that, ive blocked external ssh so only I can access it at the moment
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09:13<keaza>Ive deleted anything that could have a back door and added a few ip blackholes
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09:14<petemc>it's impressive that you know everthing that could possibly have a backdoor
09:14<TBarth>keaza, I would say that you ve to reinstall your complete os. But normally "hackers" are no bad guys, they mostly dont delete things, but leave a message on your server like "... hacked by anonymous"
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09:16<keaza>petemc, I dont know Everything. but anything ive put on ive done a google search for exploits some have come up some have not. and TBarth i shall do that, they basicly just deleted several things such as apache2 and other things. im sure its repairable but just not worth them time
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09:22<clement_>Maulkin are you here ?
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09:29<SynrG>there's something fundamental about ldap authentication i'm not understanding. i have read: Authentication identities to LDAP entries
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09:29<SynrG>this seems to be what i want to do, except i wonder if SASL is really required for that kind of mapping?
09:30<Zathras>Hi. Tried this on Squeeze & Wheezy: javaws (sun jdk6): when an app is imported and next the cache is viewed (javaws -view) I cannot make shortcuts to the desktop as that option is greyed out. What causes this/how to fix this please?
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09:30<SynrG>that is, do you need SASL to login as an ldap user without specifying a full dn=?
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09:31<SynrG>there is some sample code for the ruby net-sasl package that indicates logging in as a user. it does not specify a full dn= to do the ldap bind
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09:32<SynrG>i have installed and configured a slapd on a squeeze box. however, i cannot login to this server without specifying a full dn=cn=someuser,dc=sample,dc=come
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09:33<SynrG>the example says i can specify: ldap.auth "joe_user", "opensesame"
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09:33<SynrG>what is the minimal slapd configuration needed to allow this kind of access?
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09:34<SynrG>(i ask as a programmer writing ruby code that needs to interact with other people's LDAP servers, not because I have any need to set up an LDAP server myself)
09:35<SynrG>maybe i should be asking at #ldap @ freenode instead? :)
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09:42<Zathras>SynrG, probably
09:42<alexandros>fu ck israel
09:42<Zathras>slightly off topic
09:42<Maulkin>alexandros: Do you have a debian question?
09:44<themill>Maulkin: alexandros has done this one more than one channel. Perhaps he's looking for another network.
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09:50<SynrG>my question actually relates to debian inasmuch as i followed and it didn't cover the topic of user logins very well
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10:13<ectospasm>I'm having a problem with smartmontools... I had one current pending and offline uncorrectable sector (both the same sector, I think). I followed Bruce Allen's badblocks howto, and corrected the current pending sector, but the offline uncorrectable counter in "smartctl -A /dev/sda" still reports '1'. I've tried running badblocks on the entire disk (which came up with no errors, empty -o
10:13<ectospasm>badblocks file), and the offline uncorrectable sectors remains stuck at one.
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10:20<clement_>hello again ectospasm
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10:21<clement_>thanks a lot for the last time
10:21<clement_>i have resolved my problem
10:21<ectospasm>good to hear! you're welcome
10:21<clement_>with sound ^
10:22<clement_>thanks again i don't understand i installed the driver from realtek and removed alsa-base paquet and its works now
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10:24<clement_>i'm maybe a small user but i think there are some problems since alsa has been included in kernel
10:25<clement_>i hadn't problem before that
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10:26<clement_>you have problems with your hard disk ectospasm ?
10:27<ectospasm>just a minor problem... wouldn't even know about it if it weren't for smartmontools
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10:27<ectospasm>I'm just trying to figure out a way to properly clear the error counter, since I'm pretty sure the sector has been reallocated
10:28<ectospasm>the sector was in my ext4 journal
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10:29<clement_>have you got a solution ?
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10:31<eshat>I wonder if there is an option to make X choose the native resolution of an external display, when the desktop lid is closed. Any thoughts ?
10:31<ectospasm>not yet, that's why I was asking here
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10:31<ectospasm>sounds like it'd need to be a feature of the X server
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10:32<ectospasm> maybe the proprietary nvidia or ati X servers might have it
10:32<eshat>ectospasm: talking to me ?
10:32<eshat>hmm, well there is no such thing like AT/Nvidia's XServer. There is only one :)
10:33<eshat>And I think this feature is graphics card independent
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10:33<ectospasm>but, but... something must interface with the graphics driver to determine the resolution of the monitor connected. Right?
10:34<eshat>ectospasm: xrandr recognises that fine here
10:34<ectospasm>so why were you asking?
10:34<eshat>It's just that X (or whatever) sets the highest common resolution for both displays, even though the notebook lid is closed
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10:35<eshat>Instead of choosing the native resolution for the external display.
10:35<ectospasm>sounds like a feature request
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10:35<eshat>I cannot imagine me being the first on earth using an external display on his notebook :)
10:35<eshat>There are plenty of bug reports, but each distro seems to fix this downstream only
10:35<ectospasm>...because X is a mess
10:36<eshat>I'll ask on #debian-x, thanks for caring ectospasm
10:36<ectospasm>I try... feebly
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10:37<kevin_>Hello everyone. Real simple question. I'm not a noob. But I have a triple boot system and all need upgrades. If one breaks, could be bad. But to go from "Squeeze" to "Unstable", must I have dist-upgrade through "testing" first or can I skip "testing"?
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10:38<abrotman>please don't do that
10:38<abrotman>if you have to ask, you're not the type of person that should be running unstable
10:38<kevin_>what? go to unstable? No, I know the risks
10:38<abrotman>then you should know how to do it without asking .. good luck
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10:39<kevin_>I am booting Fedora Grub2 on a UEFI and Ubuntu can never get Grub 1.99 update right. Debian can, at least in Unstable. Fedora Grub gets my MBR
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10:39<kevin_>Now is this a "help" channel or "cockiness" channel?
10:40<abrotman>I'm giving you help by suggesting you should alreadyk now before you run unstable ...
10:40<clement_>ectospasm, have you success ? to erase errors from counter
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10:40<ectospasm>clement_: nope
10:41<kevin_>In other words, I need the Grub2 Aptosid is using, okay? Cause it finds all of my distros. If Aptosid can, I assume Debian Unstable can too
10:41<clement_>with fdisk ?
10:41<clement_>maybe or not ?
10:41<kevin_>Now I dont have the fast internet, okay? So I do not want two full upgrades is all
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10:42<abrotman>so just try it .. if it breaks, you'll have leanred
10:42<ectospasm>kevin_: ask a coherent question first. Can't you just add the missing distros to grub.cfg manually?
10:42<kevin_>I was going to molest Linux Mint Debian since its testing, but I cant stand Mint
10:42<ectospasm>what is "Linux Mint Debian?"
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10:43<kevin_>I have converted from a Ubuntu 11.04 system completely by apt-get and aptitude alone, never touching Ubuntu's repositories. I know how to do this
10:43<kevin_>up to a 12.04
10:43<ectospasm> just add the missing distros to grub and be done with it
10:43<eshat>kevin_: unstable's grub works fine with other distors if os-prober is installed
10:43<kevin_>grub cannot boot efi
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10:43<kevin_>grub2 can
10:44<ectospasm>er, grub2
10:44<ectospasm>I don't think of grub as grub1
10:44<kevin_>yeah, but only RedHat gets it exactly right, okay? Debian's unstable developers do too, but Squeeze's Grub2 wont
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10:45<ectospasm>you never said anything about running squeeze, or did I miss it?
10:45<kevin_>If Debian wouldn't take 5 years to go from Grub 1.98 to 2.00 offically in Squeeze, this would not be a problem :)
10:45<Apollo>cry baby cry
10:46<kevin_>you missed it
10:46<Apollo>nope, you miss the use of Debian Squeeze
10:46<Apollo>if you don't like it, don't use it
10:46<Apollo>this is not the channel to rant about how the debian release schedule sucks
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10:46<kevin_>ISqueeze me Apollo hehe
10:46<kevin_>I asked a simple yes or no question
10:46<kevin_>can someone just say yes or no
10:47<ectospasm>I think you can skip the testing phase
10:47<ectospasm>...I didn't see your first (1st) comment
10:47<kevin_>THANKS ECTO!
10:47<kevin_>How simple was that?
10:47<dpkg>rumour has it, sid is the codename for <unstable>, named after the kid in Toy Story that breaks toys. The great thing about running sid is that, when it breaks you get to keep ALL the pieces!!
10:47<sney>and don't forget to read the
10:47<Apollo>shit *will* break*
10:48<kevin_>Yeah but he's still a human. What lifeform is the nic for Experimental then?
10:49<kevin_>Debian has to tread lightly because they choose to take on 20 architectures at once, okay so not my problem they dont mature like the rest of the world in real time
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10:49<ectospasm>squeeze broke for me just going to wheezy. It was far easier just to reinstall than to fix 100+ broken packages.
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10:50<kevin_>Anyway, I'm not trolling, so thanks y'all. (ecto, between using apt-get AND aptitude you can always fix broken systems
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10:51<kevin_>you must constantly switch between the two, occasionally remove one, add one, add 100, but you'll get there
10:51<kevin_>aptitude rocks though. Best achievement of Debian's life
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10:52<kevin_>whoever wrote aptitude on top of apt and dpkg, is sheer Genius okay?
10:53<kevin_>I mean considering how it can fix the most broken of a system and dependency resolution
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10:53<ectospasm>yes, but sometimes it's more expedient to just reinstall. The whole reason for keeping data partitions separate from the rest of the system, reinstalling is usually simpler and cleaner
10:53<themill>if by "on top of apt" you mean both aptitude and apt-get use libapt, then yes
10:54<kevin_>yes, I mean apt-get but apt-get is again, behind the times as is Squeeze, so whoever the genius is that configured aptitude is the man
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10:55<ectospasm>it may take me hours fiddling with apt, but I can usually spend those hours reconfiguring a reinstalled system
10:55-!-engla [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
10:55<ectospasm>...but each to his own.
10:55<kevin_>it's not libapt, but libapt is on top of dpkg which is on top of debconf, right? :)
10:56<kevin_>Anyway, Debian Sid is better than Ubuntu 12.04 is right now, for UEFI and Intel and secure boot and GPLv3, etc
10:56<abrotman>wait six months ...
10:57<kevin_>for what?
10:57<kevin_>Quantal is pulling from the frozen testing as we speak
10:57<abrotman>perhaps you should spend more time reading, less time rambling
10:58<kevin_>Maybe a year. But then Ubuntu can just cheat and make a .deb file anyway and call it all the same
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10:59<kevin_>I dont get why there are these forks for Unstable like Aptosid, or even Mint Debian... Cause I've jailbroken their fixes with Unstable, Exp. and sources and been fine and I never see a"fix update" for 3 months or more
11:00<kevin_>anyway, KDE is the worst in Unstable so don't do that one
11:00<kevin_>All distros at 4.8.3 are looking rough actually. Linux-wide
11:01<kevin_>Arch got broke a little. Kubuntu 12.04 is a joke... I could keep on
11:02<kevin_>anyway, thanks every1. Later.
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11:02<ectospasm>what a strange person
11:02<abrotman>hopefully that was an isolated incident
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11:13<jkrueger>what is extra with an 8 dvd set of disks vs 1 dvd install disk?
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11:15<abrotman>nothing you can't get from http sources .. some people have them for offline installes
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11:15<abrotman>.win 7
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11:15<rebli>I'm upgrading gnome2 to gnome3, but I prefer gnome-session-fallback; synaptic gives me this error: Could not perform immediate configuration on 'gnome-session-fallback', what have I to do?
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11:16<jkrueger>abrotman, would that mean it has the broadcom drivers in the 8 set?
11:17<abrotman>not if they have firmware
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11:17<jkrueger>OK, then 1 dvd is the way
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11:18<abrotman>!tell jkrueger about firmware images
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11:24<rebli>maybe someone could tell me where i can ask for help
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11:25<sney>rebli: do you mean you're upgrading from stable to testing?
11:26<jkrueger>want to change distro, after many years with opensuse to something that will be OK with spectrwm and xombrero
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11:27<jkrueger>and of course vim:)
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11:28<jkrueger> xombrero anybody here that uses it?
11:28<rebli>sney: no i'm in unstable
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11:30<dpkg>In order for us to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, aptitude or dselect we need the following information: The complete output of your apt-get/aptitude/dselect run (including the command you used); the output from apt-cache policy PKG1 PKG2...; for the relevant packages and "apt-cache policy". Use to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
11:30<sney>rebli: ^
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11:32<lnear>Hi. What channel can I get informations about Debian Internet Servers?www
11:33<lnear>Like squid and iptables...
11:34<abrotman>here, i think
11:34<rebli>sney: i had used synaptic, have i to resend the install command with apt-get? and if so, can i use the already downloaded packages?
11:35<sney>rebli: well, if it failed on the last go, 'aptitude -f install' should give the output we need
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11:36<lnear>I have configured a server for Squid+Iptables...
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11:37<lnear>All is working fine...
11:37<lnear>But, some Windows 7 terminals can't establish connection with the server...
11:37<lnear>I haven't problems with XP or other Unix systems...
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11:38<lnear>And just a few computers don't stablish.
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11:38<lnear>Someone knows if I have to configure something more to stablish this connection?
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11:38<abrotman>can they resolve the hostname? tried wireshark ?
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11:39<lnear>I have tried configure a DHCP server...
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11:40<lnear>And works with the machines...
11:40<lnear>But... It's very strange...
11:40<rebli>sney: i have little experience with aptitude , the command is that you wrote, or ought to be 'aptitude -f install gnome-session-fallback', maybe followed by " > my.log 2>&1"
11:40<lnear>Just few machines don't connect.
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11:41<sney>rebli: sounds good so far, now put the output in a pastebin like
11:41<lnear>I always get the message "Unidentified Network"
11:41<sney>rebli: 'aptitude -f install' by itself tries to fix any broken packages, so you don't need to say the package name
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11:42<grove>,checkbackport libmtp9
11:42<judd>Backporting package libmtp9 in sid→squeeze/i386: all build-dependencies satisfied using squeeze, archignore, squeeze-backports.
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11:43<lnear>Do you know anything about this, abrotman?
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11:46<grove>I could use libmtp9 for squeeze, so I asked judd about backporting it (I did it in private msg, but I've also just done it in channel) and as far as I can see, it says it is possible, so I added a deb-src line for wheezy to sources.list `apt-get source libmtp9` and can see it lists debhelper >=9 but squeeze only has 8.0.0 - Am I misinterpreting what judd says or doing something (what?) wrong?
11:46<rebli>sney: i don't have broken packages, aptitude -f install gives lot of output, no broken packages reported, no reference at what i want to do: install gnome-session-fallback and sp upgrade to gnome3
11:48<sney>rebli: " Could not perform immediate configuration on 'gnome-session-fallback'" means the package is broken. I asked you to put the output of the aptitude command in a pastebin so the people in this channel can see it and help you know what to do next.
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11:49<sney>rebli: please also pastebin the output of 'apt-cache policy' and 'apt-cache policy gnome-session-fallback' as dpkg told you earlier.
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11:53<rebli>sney: pasted name is rebli1
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11:54<sney>rebli: for the 3rd time, please also pastebin the apt-cache commands...
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11:55<rebli>sney: sorry i'm doing..., i thank you for your patience
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11:58<rebli>sney: done 2 other paste, with the apt-cache policy...
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11:59<sney>rebli: I have to leave now but there are other people who can help you. From here it looks like you haven't updated your sid system in a very long time. My recommendation is to remove any pinning or holds, run 'aptitude full-upgrade' until aptitude finishes with no errors, and at that point you can try to install gnome fallback
11:59<wh0-4m-1>help boot scan wabsite
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12:00<sney>rebli: and if nobody here helps you, you can also try in #debian-next, which is the real sid channel
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12:02<rebli>sney: thanks, one last thing: i tried aptitude -f install gnome-session-fallback, the output is different than that of aptitude -f install, so what has to be considered'?
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12:09<Losowski>Does anyone know when Debian will switch from using module-init-tools (3.16) to kmod?
12:10<Losowski>module-init-tools is now old
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12:38<adityamenon>Hi everyone
12:38<adityamenon>I'm logged into a dual booting Linux, and Windows 7 is hibernating
12:38<adityamenon>I just downloaded a file, and I want to write it over to one of the folders in Win
12:38<adityamenon>is this a good idea?
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12:39<adityamenon>or is it better if I shut down that OS and come back to do this?
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12:49<heikkila>adityamenon, are you using Debian?
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12:50<adityamenon>yes heikkila
12:50<adityamenon>I'm currently logged into Debian Squeeze
12:51<adityamenon>I can see the 'x GB filesystem' of Windows from LXDE's File Manager
12:51<heikkila>adityamenon, if you have ntfs-3g package you should be able to write to your Windows-partition (they should have ntfs)
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12:51<adityamenon>If I write... will there be any problems because the system is hibernating and not shut-down?
12:52<heikkila>adityamenon, it must be shut down if you are dual booting?
12:52<adityamenon>no... it's on 'Hibernate', it kind of shuts down. When I hit the power button, I see grub. If I choose Windows, it 'resumes' from hibernate - or I can boot to Linux
12:53<adityamenon>I find it convenient because I don't need to close all windows when I want to come to Linux
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12:56<heikkila>adityamenon, I don't think it will be any problems with your Debian setup anyway
12:57<adityamenon>hehe :) Debian is almost never a problem
12:57<adityamenon>It is windows one has to worry about...
12:57<adityamenon>ah, I see what I have talked myself into
12:57<adityamenon>"this room is only for Debian support"
12:57<heikkila>yes :)
12:58<adityamenon>what about the hard disk, do you think this will cause any problem with the partitioning etc.?
12:58<adityamenon>I know I'm throwing around terms, sorry about that
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12:59<Mimiko>adityamenon, does your motherboard and CPU support dualbooting? I've heard that there is such thing
12:59<adityamenon>It's a one-yr-old laptop, I think support for such stuff should exist...
13:00<Mimiko>adityamenon, I'm saying about running both systems same time ))
13:00<retrospectacus>iirc windows hibernates by writing RAM to a file "hiberfile.sys" so if you don't touch that you should be fine
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13:01<retrospectacus>reading and writing on the windows drive is fine too, but not sure about partitioning.... or why you are talking about it
13:01<adityamenon>retrospectacus, yes, that is exactly what's happening... so, I guess Win7 shouldn't complain: I was worried it had a 'real time status' of files table or something like that
13:01<Losowski>Previous unanswered question I had: Does anyone know when Debian will switch from using module-init-tools (3.16) to kmod?
13:02<adityamenon>and then it thinks 'hey where did *this* come from?!'
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13:03<adityamenon>Mimiko, ah, okay.. well I'm not really sure I'm using such a feature... Win7 is simply writing current state of memory to disk and shutting down
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13:03<retrospectacus>adityamenon: that could happen, if you wrote over some system files or files it had open when you hibernated... but if you're just like putting some files in "My Documents" or whatever it's fine
13:04<Mimiko>adityamenon, I heard about such feature but not sure when it will be available for regular users
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13:04<adityamenon>retrospectacus, thank you! yes, I'm just 'copying to My Docs or whatever' :)
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13:05<retrospectacus>go for it :)
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13:06<adityamenon>thanks retrospectacus, just did it :) good day!
13:07<heikkila>adityamenon, how do you get back to Windows from Debian? Do you hibernate Debian or shut it off?
13:07<adityamenon>heikkila, I've done both before and they work fine
13:07<adityamenon>but I don't really do too many things in Debian at a time, so I'm fine with shutting it down when I'm going
13:08<retrospectacus>the only way you'd have a problem with that is if you have 2 linuxes sharing a swap partition, 'cause hibernate in linux saves RAM to there
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13:08<Mimiko>adityamenon, why not use openbox in windows to run debian or viceversa?
13:08<adityamenon>retrospectacus, ah, okay... I didn't know that one!
13:09<adityamenon>I'll make sure I use a separate swap partition if I install Ubuntu or something
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13:09<alex_>hola gente ;)
13:09<adityamenon>Mimiko, I don't know about Openbox... I used Virtualbox before, and I was frustrated by the hardware limitations
13:09-!-alex_ is now known as alexlikerock
13:10<adityamenon>Debian is so snappy when you give it full power - in Virtualbox, I can't give it more than 1G memory and 1 'virtual core' of processor whatever that is
13:10<Mimiko>oh, yes, its virtualbox
13:10<Mimiko>adityamenon, you'vr saied you use debian not often
13:11<Mimiko>so in my thinking using in virtualbox is more nafly ))
13:11<adityamenon>no, I use Debian everyday (night) to learn stuff... but I don't do work stuff in here (yet)
13:11<adityamenon>and the command line is quite fast within Virtual Box also, but I'm such a slave to GUIs
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13:12<Losowski>Linux is great, so much can be done with it
13:12<adityamenon>All hail
13:12<Mimiko>adityamenon, you can run full gui in Virtualbox
13:13<adityamenon>I can, but it's dead slow (I tried installing those vbox drivers or something, too)
13:13<adityamenon>the mouse takes forever to move from one location to another
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13:15<Mimiko>adityamenon, I think something didnt install good. My only limitation is the slow hdd acces. Even windows is slow
13:15<Mimiko>But GUI is fast enough to even watch video
13:15<adityamenon>hmm? this warrants investigation
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13:17<Mimiko>The other thing I used - start VirtualBox in background and using MobXTerm emulator to connect to debian's gui
13:17<heikkila>adityamenon, what are you using Windows for that you cannot do in Debian?
13:17-!-naos [] has joined #debian
13:17<Mimiko>And there is Qemu under windows. But I couldn make to start Debian under qemu. Could make start any system
13:17<Losowski>heikkila: Good question!
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13:18<Seo007>Is your website on page 1 of Google?
13:18<adityamenon>I use something called PaymoPlus, a benign spyware
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13:18<Mimiko>heikkila, its hard to move from windows to linux
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13:18<adityamenon>I use Sublime Text, but yeah that's supported in Linux too...
13:18<Mimiko>a lot of everyday software I use that couldnt install and use in linux yet
13:18<Losowski>Mimiko: Why?
13:19<devil>Mimiko: how is that?
13:19<Losowski>Mimiko: For example?
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13:19<devil>but all this should be taken to #debian-pfftopic
13:19<Losowski>There is a Linux equivalent in software to every Windows program
13:19<Losowski>devil: You're right
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13:19<devil>it's quite off-topic
13:19<Mimiko>having one computer, the only option for me is using virtualbox till I will find all used software in windows to install on linux and learn to use them
13:20<adityamenon>jaw: dropped - skype is supported in Lin too?!
13:20-!-mode/#debian [+l 523] by debhelper
13:20<Losowski>Mimiko: Talk to me in offtopic?
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13:20<devil>adityamenon: sure, i use it every day
13:20<adityamenon>I of course have the AMP stack installed independently, so I can't say 'wamp'
13:21<adityamenon>git is supported, I know that... aieeee I can't come up with an excuse
13:21<adityamenon>it looks like I am a silly addict to the Win7 interface, afraid of change...
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13:24<SynrG>adityamenon: until they roll out win8 and either make you very happy with the change, or else very sad. or you can switch to gnome2 and then be happy-or-sad switching to gnome3 instead. six of one, half dozen of the other :)
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13:25<adityamenon>Omg I think I will stick to Win7 forever, until people look at me strangely like I would do now at an XP user
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13:25<adityamenon>(metro can be disabled right?)
13:25*SynrG shrugs. wrong place to ask :p
13:25<SynrG>##windows @ freenode probably
13:26<adityamenon>eek, sorry
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13:26<SynrG>that being said, linux has plenty of room for people who don't like their UI to change every release. you could go for a more sparse & stable desktop
13:26<SynrG>some of them have designs that now look 10 or even 15 years old
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13:27<adityamenon>yes, at this point, only PaymoPlus is the one thing I will miss on Debian
13:28<adityamenon>it's supported on Mac :( is there an alternative?
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13:28<adityamenon>it basically records the time spent on each active window
13:29<SynrG>there's icewm, for example, for that win95-like look :)
13:29<adityamenon>of course, I could try and use WINE for Paymo
13:29<adityamenon>win95? wow
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13:30<Losowski>I like using Lxde/openbox
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13:32<adityamenon>actually, I think I recalled wrong.. LXDE worked well on Vbox
13:32<adityamenon>that awful interface performance was with Ubuntu Unity
13:33<adityamenon>what made me uninstall was frustrating graphics issues - nvidia geforce gt520m, only recently nvidia released proper drivers for it on Linux
13:33-!-rebli [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:33<adityamenon>HOWEVER the main problem was resolution - I could not get a good resolution and blamed it on the lack of graphics support
13:33<SynrG>well, to be fair to icewm, it has moved along with the times, as it is themable and many themes with quite different looks are available.
13:34<adityamenon>I later found out on this dual booted one (thanks to this AWESOME room) that what I needed was a new kernel
13:34-!-fr33k [] has joined #debian
13:34<adityamenon>I was installing Deb from an older disk with 2.6 kernel
13:34<adityamenon>I upgraded to 3.2, and my integrated graphics are supported on this one
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13:35<SynrG>yeah, well, that's the problem in general with hardware vendors. if they lack commitment to providing free drivers at the same time as the hardware releases, the community is always playing catch-up
13:35<adityamenon>now I can see the highest resolutions, I think I can repeat the performance in V-Box
13:35<adityamenon>I agree SynrG I tried so hard to get Bumblebee to work
13:35<adityamenon>it broke X on my system quite badly and even now I don't know what else I could have done - I just reformatted to get rid of the whole mess
13:36<adityamenon>okay, question
13:36<adityamenon>if I were to run aptitude remove lxde
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13:37<adityamenon>will it remove all the x related stuff too?
13:37<adityamenon>all the drivers, xserver-xorg-blah, and so on?
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13:37<adityamenon>so I can begin with a clean slate? I want it all to happen automatically and not have to hunt this lib and that xserver-xorg-component to remov
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13:38<adityamenon>(facepalm) I didn't get that command as an idea back then
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13:38<SynrG>in general, whatever was automatically installed is subject later for autoremoval. so it's just a matter of what, on this box, you've installed manually vs. automatically
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13:39<SynrG>(by automatically i mean, solely because it was a dependency of something else)
13:40<adityamenon>*all* the X stuff came after lxde
13:40<adityamenon>I did nothing on my own... so theortically, it should work
13:40<adityamenon>yippee, I'm now ready to mess with the Nvidia non-free drivers ;)
13:40<adityamenon>I know a reinstall is just a couple of aptitude commands away :)
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13:42<joseph>hey, what happens if I change "squeeze" for "wheezy" on source.list?
13:43<SynrG>just be aware there's no going back
13:43<joseph>SynrG, sorry I didn't understand
13:43<sney_>dpkg: squeeze-wheezy
13:43<dpkg>sney_: wish i knew
13:43<sney_>dpkg: squeeze->wheezy
13:43<dpkg>First, understand that testing is a pre-release distribution without timely security support and that you may have a slightly bumpy ride; ask me about <moving target> <testing> <testing security>. From /etc/apt/sources.list, remove stable-specific lines like squeeze-updates and backports, and change squeeze to wheezy. apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade. If you feel you need more instructions, perhaps you should wait a while.
13:44<SynrG>well, i just got the bot to priv-msg you the same thing
13:44<sney_>joseph: what SynrG means is there's no downgrade from testing
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13:45<joseph>sney, SynrG : ok. do you know the difference if I just do "sudo apt-get upgrade" instead of "dist-upgrade"?
13:46<sney_>yes, apt-get upgrade after changing releases in sources.list will put you in limbo between releases and your system will essentially be broken
13:46-!-ab_fab [] has joined #debian
13:47<sney_>the recommended procedure is: run apt-get upgrade to ensure squeeze is up to date, THEN change sources.list, THEN do apt-get update; apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade
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13:48<joseph>sney_, And if I want just update some package. For example, I need update just pidgin
13:48<sney_>,versions pidgin
13:48<judd>Package: pidgin on i386 -- lenny: 2.4.3-4lenny8; lenny-security: 2.4.3-4lenny8; lenny-backports: 2.7.3-1~bpo50+2; squeeze: 2.7.3-1+squeeze2; squeeze-proposed-updates: 2.7.3-1+squeeze3; squeeze-security: 2.7.3-1+squeeze3; sid: 2.10.6-1; wheezy: 2.10.6-1
13:48<sney_>,checkbackport pidgin
13:48<judd>Backporting package pidgin in sid→squeeze/i386: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: libgadu-dev (>= 1:1.11.0-2), libfarstream-0.1-dev, network-manager-dev (>= 0.9.0) [linux-any].
13:49<joseph>sney_, because in 2.7 I can't add any user. And in 2.10 it's possible
13:49<sney_>joseph: since pidgin can't currently be backported to squeeze, your options are to either stick with 2.7.3 or upgrade your whole system to testing.
13:49<sney_>can't add any user? what do you mean
13:50<joseph>sney_, when I try add any buddy, it returns this message: "unable to add"
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13:50<sney_>what protocol?
13:50<adityamenon>hmm... Paymo did start under wine, but it could not connect to the server, nor could it actually track anything
13:51<adityamenon>just gotta wait till it's formally released I guess
13:51<joseph>sney_, msn
13:52<joseph>sney_, see:
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13:53<sney_>hmm, interesting, same thing happens on mine
13:53<adityamenon>Okay guys, thanks for all the help :) I'll be back later... good day!
13:53<sney_>is it a change in the msn protocol? I know that's broken things before
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13:54<joseph>sney_, I tried use a new pidgin version to add this user, and it worked
13:54<joseph>sney_, But I did it in a upgraded system
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13:57<sney_>there is no bug report for this behaviour, it should be filed
13:58<joseph>sney_, humm, I didn't find anything too, but seems like work perfectly in a Upgraded Debian (Wheezy)
13:59-!-paolo [] has joined #debian
13:59<sney_>yes, so using wheezy is your only choice I think... except maybe finding what version from upstream fixed this issue and trying to build that on squeeze
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14:00<joseph>sney_, is not possible download a new pidgin version and install it?
14:01<sney_>the version in wheezy is too new for squeeze dependencies. it will not install
14:01<joseph>sney_, =\
14:01<joseph>sney_, That's a negative point in shared libraries, right?
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14:11<joseph>sney_, Trying to call .configure file it show that have lots of dependencies
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14:16<joseph>sney_, thank you, I gotta go
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14:37<lazycrazy>hi, i used #dget -x http://locatio/ipplan.deb to get the source of the ipplan
14:38<lazycrazy>is it installed automatically with it?
14:38<lazycrazy>or do i need to install it again??
14:38<engla>it's not installed
14:38<Apollo>what are you trying to do exactly lazycrazy ?
14:39<Apollo>get the source, or get the binary?
14:39<lazycrazy>get the source
14:39<lazycrazy>and try to edit it if any changes need?
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14:41<retrospectacus>usually you just add an deb-src line in source.list and then "apt-get source ipplan"
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14:42<lazycrazy>where do i access those unpacked source files?
14:42<retrospectacus>they will be downloaded to .
14:42<lazycrazy>means in which directory do i find them?
14:42<retrospectacus>aka $PWD
14:42<retrospectacus>your current location
14:42<Calinou>$PWD = .
14:42<Calinou>except for people with fucked up shells of course
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14:43<retrospectacus>!tell lazycrazy about package recompile
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14:53<safinaskar>how to setup anonymous ftp server?
14:54<retrospectacus>!tell safinaskar about ftp
14:55<safinaskar>!tell safinaskar about ftpd
14:56<sney_>!tell safinaskar about msg the bot
14:57<safinaskar>okey, please say to me how (exactly) to configure some ftp server? i tried pure-ftpd and vsftpd, but i didn't success
14:57<sney_>read the manual
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14:58<retrospectacus>google <your ftpd> anonymous
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14:59<safinaskar>okey, i have real question: i installed vsftpd, then i checked config and saw a line: "anonymous_enable=YES". but when i try to connect to my server, it asks password. why>
15:00<retrospectacus>anonymous ftp still asks for password
15:00<retrospectacus>just put anything
15:01<safinaskar>retrospectacus: what you mean?
15:01<safinaskar>retrospectacus: put some files?
15:01<safinaskar>retrospectacus: or some password?
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15:01<retrospectacus>enter any password
15:01<retrospectacus>it is traditional to use your email address
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15:05<safinaskar>retrospectacus: i tried. but this doesn't work
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15:06<safinaskar>retrospectacus: try youself.
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15:10<retrospectacus>it works but shows an error
15:10<retrospectacus>500 OOPS: vsftpd: refusing to run with writable anonymous root
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15:11<retrospectacus>!tell safinaskar about ftp must die
15:11<safinaskar>i need ftp!
15:11<sney_>I'm not sure you can do anonymous uploads with any of the alternatives, retrospectacus
15:11<safinaskar>don't tell me ftp is bad!
15:11<safinaskar> i just need to start ftp server
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15:12<sney_>I'm pretty sure the manual would cover this kind of thing, safinaskar, so you should read it (don't skim it) instead of only looking at the config file
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15:19<safinaskar>okey, i solved this problem (chmod 555 /srv/ftp). but now i have another problem: i can successfully log in via command lone ftp client and from firefox. but i cannot connect from internet explorer from windows and from windows explorer
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15:21<sney_>that is probably a windows issue. good thing windows users tend to use something like filezilla for ftp rather than the browser
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15:25<safinaskar>sney_: windows is not as bad as you think
15:25<safinaskar>sney_: i want my server be available to all users
15:26<gdb>ftp is bad
15:26<sney_>I didn't say it was bad. I said windows users (myself included) tend to use 3rd party FTP clients, because the one built into IE sucks.
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15:26<gdb>I said it!
15:26<sney_>this has been true since, like, 1995
15:26<Mimiko>safinaskar, ive opened your ftp from IE
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15:27<safinaskar>Mimiko: o_O
15:27<safinaskar>Mimiko: thanks
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15:27<Mimiko>But I thing its not an ftp-like really
15:27<Mimiko>Its seems to me to be like apache
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15:28<safinaskar>Mimiko: :)
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15:28<safinaskar>Mimiko: yes, i have apache on this machine, too
15:29<gdb>Internet Explorer's ftp client looks like any other HTML directory listing.
15:29<gdb>It's nothing to do with apache.
15:29<Mimiko>Windows Explorer opend ftp too
15:30<safinaskar>Mimiko: gdb: stop! my apache server is not visible to the internet
15:31<Mimiko>safinaskar, I told that it looks like apache
15:31<Mimiko>in IE and Firefox
15:31<gdb>safinaskar: Stop what?
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15:32<gdb>safinaskar: He's not looking at your web server when using an ftp:// URL. IE presents your server to him like any other HTML directory list.
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15:32<safinaskar>gdb: "stop" means i very wondered how you can see my apache
15:32<safinaskar>gdb: ok
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15:32<gdb>safinaskar: I have to wonder why you're asking how to provide services to other users on your machine that you don't understand yourself.
15:32<Mimiko>mmm, actially I'm she
15:32<gdb>I mean, it's your machine, your decision, but strikes me as unwise somehow.
15:33<Mimiko>Why everyone thinks that Im he?
15:33<gdb>Mimiko: Because this is the Internet.
15:33<Mimiko>bad, bad Internet ))
15:33<sney_>Mimiko: most people in #debian are he, and your name is not obvious
15:33<gdb>Everyone's a man until voice proves otherwise. :-P
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15:33<Mimiko>voice other mirc?
15:33<gdb>Anyway, English doesn't have gender neutral personal pronouns so "he" is what's used generically.
15:34<gdb>There's one user around here, ayaka, who's nick is feminine in the west but says he's a he.
15:34<Mimiko>Mimiko - an ordinary japan name )))
15:34<gdb>I didn't pay attention to your name.
15:34<Mimiko>gdb, ok =*
15:35<Losowski>My nick name is my mother's original surname before she got married ;)
15:35<Mimiko>Losowski, its not gender speled
15:35<safinaskar>okey. my initial problem is following: i want to transfer some file from qemu virtual machine with windows to my host with debian linux. if it would be linux guest, i would use netcat. but this is not linux guest. if it would be vmware and not qemu, i would use drag-and-drop. but this is qemu. so, i think the best way is to setup ftp server on the linux. am i right?
15:36<Losowski>Her name was "Łosowska"
15:36<gdb>safinaskar: I'd setup samba on the host and mount a network drive in the guest then. But that's me.
15:36<Losowski>for a male, "Łosowski"
15:36<Mimiko>safinaskar, set appropriate privileges
15:36<Losowski>in the USA, there is no "Ł", only a "L"
15:36<Mimiko>as anonymous I could write anything
15:37<sney_>safinaskar: use sftp for that
15:37<safinaskar>Losowski: i'm from russia. and you?
15:37<safinaskar>Mimiko: yes. but this is what i want
15:37<Losowski>safinaskar: "From" New York City, USA, "residing in" Poland ;)
15:37<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
15:37<safinaskar>Mimiko: i just want to transfer one file. i don't need any security
15:38<Mimiko>safinaskar you have to open to transefer or implement user authorisation on your ftp
15:38<sney_>safinaskar: I say to use sftp, because if you have ssh, it is already set up. you log in with sftp using your ssh password, and then the get/put/bye commands are the same as ftp.
15:38<gdb>safinaskar: Then IMO, the best tool is sftp. it's easier to install putty in windows and sftp one file than to setup an ftp server and ensure it's configured securily in linux
15:39<sney_>and windows ftp clients like filezilla support sftp as well.
15:39<Mimiko>I will have to take a look at sftp someday
15:40<sney_>it's part of openssh and it's so easy to use and secure. I will never go back to ftp
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15:40<Mimiko>ok, in defaultDebian installation I cant use remote putty to connect
15:41<Mimiko>could this mean that sftp is also available?
15:41<Mimiko>or I need to install
15:41<retrospectacus>you have to install ssh
15:41<gdb>safinaskar: If your desire was "I wish to run an ftp server to provide ftp services" that's one thing. But the issue you're trying to solve isn't "I want ftp" but "I want to transfer 1 file from a VM guest to the host." In this case, sftp is the answer.
15:41<sney_>the package is openssh-server
15:41<Mimiko>oh, different port numbers
15:42<Mimiko>ssh is on 23 rigth?
15:42<gdb>safinaskar: And if you're using the host to provide Windows file services anyway (ie; you have samba) that's an even better bet (IMO).
15:42<gdb>Mimiko: yes
15:42<gdb>er no 22
15:42<gdb>23 is telnet
15:42<Mimiko>oh, or viceversa
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15:42<gdb>Mimiko: this is listed in /etc/services
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15:42<Mimiko>and ssh is better than telnet, yes?
15:43<retrospectacus>much better
15:43<Mimiko>have to consider on learning the goodies and start to use it
15:43<retrospectacus>telnet is absolutely insecure, just like ftp
15:43<Mimiko>Why default Debian does not install openssh like it installs telnet?
15:44<retrospectacus>no services are installed by default... telnet is just a client
15:44<retrospectacus>no telnet server is on by default of course
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15:44<Mimiko>oh, how it get installed
15:45<Losowski>Telnet is outdated
15:45<gdb>Mimiko: telnet and ftp are pretty much dead in the real world. ANd at least at my company, are forbidden to use without an explicit exception frmo corporate security
15:45<retrospectacus>telnet server? don't.
15:45<Losowski>ssh is the way to go
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15:45<Mimiko>is it on services list to be choicen during isntallation?
15:45<retrospectacus>ssh, yes
15:45<gdb>Mimiko: you get an ssh and telnet client, neither server is installed by default
15:45<kblin>evening folks
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15:45<Mimiko>by how I can telnet remotely to default installations?
15:46<gdb>Mimiko: the servers are openssh-server and telnet-server (you don't want telnet-server, though, unless you're in a special circumstance and know *why* you *need* telnet)
15:46<gdb>Mimiko: the telnet client is installed by default already
15:46<gdb>Mimiko: there are 2 packages telnet (client, you have this), telnet-server (server, you don't want this)
15:46<retrospectacus>the only thing I use telnet for is troubleshooting mail servers
15:46<gdb>you cannot telnet to a remote default install, it will not be running a telnet server
15:47<Mimiko>ok. what service is running on debian to allow incomming telenet?
15:47<gdb>there isn' tone
15:47<retrospectacus>Mimiko: why on earth would you want that
15:47<gdb>select ssh server in the installer and then you can use any ssh client (SecureCRT, PuTTY, ssh itself, etc) to get remote access.
15:47<Mimiko>gdb, I've installed already two systems and or I chosed telnet during installation or it was on by default
15:48<Mimiko>retrospectacus, I didnt go in much details about telnet and ssh diference
15:48<gdb>"chose telnet" sure (and there's no option to do that outside of an expert install), but it wasn't put there by default
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15:48<retrospectacus>Mimiko: ssh is secure. telnet is not at all
15:49<retrospectacus>and nobody uses or recommends telnet
15:49<Mimiko>gdb, as a newbee I started to install with expert install )))
15:49<gdb>telnet is "secure" only insomuch as no one sells hubs anymore -- they're all switched hubs -- but it's totally insecure over wireless
15:49-!-michaelp4682 [~michaelp4@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:49<sney_>wireless is pretty insecure on its own
15:50<gdb>that too
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15:50<gdb>Mimiko: Please trust us when we say telnet and ftp are no longer used outside of special use cases *anywhere*, and it's for a reason. I've been doing Unix for 19 years and professionally for 15. telnet and ftp are to be avoided if at all possible.
15:51<Losowski>gdb: Agreed!
15:51<Mimiko>gdb, I'v not arguing about ssh usenes and old telnet
15:51<kblin>and even on low memory systems, you can run something like dropbear instead of telnet if the memory use of openssh concerns you
15:51<Mimiko>Im wondered how did I get remote telnet to debian
15:51<kblin>alias telnet-?ssh :)
15:52<Mimiko>kblin, on routers dropbear offer telnet
15:52<kblin>it does?
15:52<Mimiko>well have to apologize
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15:52<gdb>Mimiko: The thrust of your questions looks to me like "I'll learn ssh later, I want to be using telnet now. How can I do that?" The answer is "please don't unless you know exactly why you *need* telnet" (an example of "need telnet" is you're running, say, OpenVMS and your company won't pay the $1500 to get the ssh suite installed and you can't get openssh on it for some reason). That's an example of "need" - for Unix to Unix, this case never exists. Use ss
15:52<Mimiko>I didnt realize that, I connect using ssh port 22
15:52<Mimiko>But thought it is telnet
15:53<kblin>Mimiko: they might be calling the shell login telnet, but dropbear only does ssh
15:53<gdb>Mimiko: If you did an expert install and selected customized packages, and then selected telnet-server, you'll get telnet out of the box (I think, you may need to enable it even then).
15:53<gdb>Mimiko: Ah, yeah, ssh and telnet *look* the same to the end user. How they work is completely different behind the scenes.
15:54<gdb>they are indistinguishable frmo each other under common use (aside from which key sequence is the escape)
15:54<Mimiko>yes, and this is frustrating to me. I use ssh thinking that use telnet
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15:54<gdb>Ah! Well, I'm glad that's cleared up then. :-)
15:54<sney_>oh here it comes
15:54<gdb>rlogin, ssh, and telnet all look the same to the end user, it's the background details that are different :-)
15:56<Mimiko>if connecting to debian I am asked about to trust certificate, then this is not telnet, right?
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15:56<gdb>When it's saying something about key fingerprints and the like? That's ssh.
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15:56<Mimiko>oh, good, then I ve used secure conections
15:57<gdb>it's wanting to update your ~/.ssh/known_hosts file so you can be protected from man-in-the-middle attacks on future connections.
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15:57<Mimiko>this keys are a pain to use on androids
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15:58<Mimiko>as there is no users other then root, and no passwd and shells files
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16:00<safinaskar>ahhh! i solved my problem! i installed cygwin to windows, then installed ssh to cygwin, and then i did "scp"!
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16:02<gdb>Well.. I suppose that's one way to do it.
16:02<retrospectacus>that's one way... better than ftp anyways
16:02<retrospectacus>there are easier scp clients for windows than cygwin... pscp and winscp come to mind
16:03<safinaskar>retrospectacus: maybe. but i like cygwin
16:03<retrospectacus>I like linux ;)
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16:03<gdb>i like turtles and mudkips
16:04<retrospectacus>linux - qemu - windows - cygwin ... OSception?
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16:23<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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16:27<kblin>I take if I want to figure out if a system I have works with wheezy, I should locate a livecd?
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16:28<sney_>kblin: it's a good start.
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16:32<kblin>I think it's time to give debian on the desktop another try...
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16:34<SynrG>kblin: there is to build a live CD. i caution that since wheezy is a moving target, there are no guarantees to day to day what works and what doesn't ...
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16:35<SynrG>but when it works, it works well.
16:35<gdb>Isn't wheezy in freeze?
16:35<SynrG>that means nothing
16:35<SynrG>"in freeze" does not mean "all development halts"
16:36<SynrG>it is merely a change in the criteria required to move something from unstable to testing
16:36<SynrG>nothing more
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16:37<kblin>SynrG: sure. before giving up, I'd certainly look at squeeze instead
16:38<kblin>I mainly need something more recent than the ubuntu 10.04 I'm currently running, and I don't like the direction ubuntu's going GUI-wise these days
16:38<SynrG>also, if you find problems with the live images, it doesn't necessarily imply problems in wheezy as a whole
16:38<SynrG>as we push towards the finish, we still have things to fix in the live-build toolchain
16:38<SynrG>(speaking for the debian-live team, here)
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16:40<kblin>fair enough. I usually run debian on server machines, and the normal installer works like a charm
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16:40<kblin>but I appreciate that a live-build is different
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17:11<dewilman>open terminal and write : debian(){ debian|debian & } ; debian :)
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17:18<mercutio22>hi. I am having an issue where one of my disks disappears after waking from suspend. I am willing to report a bug but am unsure of which package is related to this behavior. Is it acpid?
17:19<sney_>could be the kernel
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17:22<mercutio22>sney_: in that case I should file a bug against which package? linux-image{version}?
17:25<sney_>against src:linux
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17:28<mercutio22>sney_: do you mean linux-source?
17:28<sney_>er .org
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17:30<AlexLikeRock>adios gente
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17:52<rebli>can i safely remove the packages listed in synaptic|Custom Filters|orphaned?
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17:53<sney_>rebli: I'm not familiar with synaptic but you should be able to
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17:57<rebli>if i understood, apt-cache showpkg 'package', shows reverse depends, so i can check that 'package' is no longer necessary
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18:06<chris122380>Still no sound on Debian testing on Virtualbox
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18:06<chris122380>I did a reboot of both macheans and still no sound on debain guest
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18:07<chris122380>I did some troubleshooting yesterday with no luck and this is a fresh install of debian using a business card CD
18:08<chris122380>If I run Debian stable from a liveCD I have sound but then upgrading to testing is a pain in the neck
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18:09<TIBS01>someone give me help plzzzz
18:09<TIBS01>get this error and cant seem to delete the account
18:09<TIBS01>root@shell:/home# userdel wodahs
18:09<TIBS01>userdel: cannot lock /etc/passwd; try again later.
18:12<chris122380>is there a irc room for the testing release?
18:15<dondelelcaro>TIBS01: if you're sure that nothing else is editing /etc/passwd, you can remove the lock file
18:15<dondelelcaro>TIBS01: but you should really be using the deluser command anyway
18:15<sney_>chris122380: #debian-next for testing
18:15<dondelelcaro>or you can just ask here
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18:27<TIBS01>too late
18:27<TIBS01>rebooted and it aint comming back up
18:27<TIBS01>so new reinstall tomorrow
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18:36<gotmynick>I'm using a Intel Core2Duo (T7400) at home with KVM...
18:37<gotmynick>most of my (virtual) machines are i386 ...
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18:37<gotmynick>someone know what kernel performs better: 486 or 686-pae or rt-686-pae ?
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18:38*gotmynick provably should perform some benchmarks on typical usage
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18:45<hobbestigrou>anyone use qtile wm on debian ?
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18:54<hobbestigrou>or anyone have idea about this error
18:54<hobbestigrou>on debian sid
18:54<sney_>404 on that paste
18:55<hobbestigrou>and sorry for my bad englis
18:55<hobbestigrou>i have this error when i try install libxcb
18:56<sney_>,versions libxcb1
18:56<judd>Package: libxcb1 on i386 -- lenny: 1.1-1.2; squeeze: 1.6-1; sid: 1.8.1-1; wheezy: 1.8.1-1
18:56<sney_>hobbestigrou: ^ why are you building it from source if it is in apt?
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19:02<hobbestigrou>sney_, because i try to install xpyb-ng
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19:02<hobbestigrou>is not package
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19:03<sney_>then what you want is libxcb-dev
19:03<hobbestigrou>and i have a error
19:03<sney_>if you install -dev packages it makes the source headers available for other applications you build from source
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19:04<sney_>sorry libxcb1-dev
19:05<hobbestigrou>yes it's install
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19:09<hobbestigrou>and also libx11-xcb-dev
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19:23<hobbestigrou>so no idea ?
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19:52<keaza>Hi, Can somone help me please. I keep getting random kernal panics... i could be doing anything from using nano to compiling something and then BOOM it just panics and chucks out a load of info
19:53<simonlnu>heat? hardware failure?
19:53<pparadis>keaza: can you please provide more information? what version of debian, what kernel version, what is the system's purpose, etc?
19:54<pparadis>when did this start, what changed before it started?
19:54<pparadis>more info, please.
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19:55*simonlnu needs to polish his crystal ball
19:55<keaza>is my kernal version im using debian 6 squeeze
19:55<keaza>and pparadis im using it for like everything some compiling, hosing a private minecraft server
19:55<pparadis>what kind of hardware is it hosted on?
19:56<pparadis>is it a VPS or a physical machine?
19:56<keaza>phsical machine
19:56<keaza>next to me
19:56<keaza>dell optiplex gx 260
19:56<pparadis>are you sure you are having kernel panics, or are you actually running out of memory (OOMing)?
19:57<keaza>Kernal panics
19:57<pparadis>can you please pastebin the actual errors you are seeing? remember, you're sitting in front of that machine, but we aren't.
19:57<keaza>Well Where would the error log be?
19:58<simonlnu>/var/log/syslog for example
19:58<keaza>ill pastbin that now
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20:00<pparadis>the output of dmesg might be helpful.
20:01<pparadis>also, how do you know it's a kernel panic?
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20:03<pparadis>next up, as per the above questions, when did this start happening, and what changed before then?
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20:04<keaza>Im not 100% sure but the whole thing stops and just says loads of stuff i dont understand
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20:05<keaza>How would i save the output of dmesg to a file? with a command?
20:06<keaza>If that is possiable?
20:06<simonlnu>dmesg > file
20:06<dpkg>Before asking in here or on the <debian-user> mailing list, you should read the Installation Guide, or if you already have Debian installed, the Debian Reference. The Debian Administrator's Handbook is also good. Ask me about <ig>, <overview>, <reference>, <refcard>, <docs>, <manuals>, <fundamentals>, <newbiedoc>, <faq>, <unix lessons>, <general cli tutorial>, <debian-handbook> (e.g. in your IRC client, type /msg dpkg reference).
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20:18<keaza>Any idea pparadis
20:19<sney_>I don't see any errors in that log
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20:19<sney_>keaza: have you tested the memory lately? those old dells were not built to last
20:20-!-mode/#debian [+l 494] by debhelper
20:20<keaza>No i havent actually, ill run a test now
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20:23<pparadis>20:04 < keaza> Im not 100% sure but the whole thing stops and just says loads of stuff i dont understand
20:23<pparadis>that does not mean a kernel panic. i'm pretty sure you're actually OOMing.
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20:23<pparadis>as in running out of memory.
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20:24<keaza>its not running anything though
20:24<pparadis>keaza: you might try running some of the stuff you typically run and running top, htop, or just "free -m" (read this first: ) to determine how much memory you're using.
20:24<keaza>its left idle
20:24<pparadis>when does this happen? does it happen when the system is doing nothing?
20:25<pparadis>or does it happen when you're running the minecraft server and doing compiles and such?
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20:25<keaza>Last time i was installing something
20:25<pparadis>was the minecraft server running then?
20:25<keaza>And no when its left with like htop in a screen its fine
20:25<pparadis>no idea then. more information is needed.
20:26<pparadis>it would be immensely helpful to know exactly what you're seeing when the system fails.
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20:26<keaza>When it happend lasy
20:26<keaza>i saw something like this
20:27<pparadis>well, that is certainly more helpful. that is actually a kernel panic.
20:28<pparadis>vboxdrv is involved there.
20:28<pparadis>what version of virtualbox are you running? did you install it from the repositories, or from oracle or
20:29<keaza>its not running in a virtual machine
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20:29<pparadis>keaza: is that screenshot actually from your system?
20:29<pparadis>that is no help at all.
20:30*sney_ bets that memtest will turn something up
20:30<pparadis>you can't just provide a bunch of text on a screen and say it's what your system was doing.
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20:30<keaza>One second then
20:30<sney_>the only thing I'd use a gx260 for is a doorstop. or maybe a very large paperweight
20:30<kop>sney_: Heater.
20:30<sney_>true, it does have a P4 and a ducted fan
20:30<keaza>kop, they dont kick that much heat out
20:31<kop>I am however, using one off and on for this and that. It takes forever, but it does compile.
20:31<pparadis>then you need more of them!
20:31<keaza>One moment
20:31<keaza>ill run a mem test
20:32<kop>keaza: It'll take a while. For a real test you let it run overnight so everything can get up to temperature.
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20:34<keaza>cannot load memtest with a old kernal image
20:34<sney_>use the bootable memtest86+
20:35<keaza>I used the version on a live cd
20:35<pparadis>you need to boot into it.
20:35<sney_>just use the standalone one... loading an OS to run memtest is the very definition of overkill.
20:35<sney_>that shit fits on a floppy.
20:35<pparadis>also, please note that kernel is spelled k-e-r-n-e-l
20:35<pparadis>(i've noted that same mistake maybe three times now)
20:36<keaza>i spell pheneticly ( how it sounds)
20:36<keaza>Thats probably even spelt wrong but o wel
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20:41<keaza>the memtest is running Ill let you guys know when its done
20:42<sney_>see you tomorrow
20:42<pparadis>for real, let it run for 8+ hours.
20:42<sney_>memtest doesn't "finish", it keeps running forever until you stop it or the system fails. you should let it run for several hours at least
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20:43<keaza>Will do
20:43<pparadis>if memtest doesn't show anything wrong, the next step would be to run a CPU stress test and monitor things like temperature and see if you can get the system to fail just from excessive CPU load.
20:44<pparadis>good luck.
20:44<keaza>pparadis, the cpu is never at 100%
20:44<pparadis>yes it is.
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20:45<keaza>Im in htop quite a bit. i never really see it top over about 65-75% depending on what i do
20:45<pparadis>at least when you're doing things like compiling large apps. but sure, if it falls over when nothing is running (as in you boot and just let it sit there, and then it fails later), take a picture of the screen and post it tomorrow.
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20:45<pparadis>in fact, *please* make a record of exactly what you are seeing if you need further assistance tomorrow. it's really important for people to be able to help you.
20:46<keaza>I can try....
20:46<keaza>Ill just try get a photo of it when it comes next if it get it
20:46<pparadis>in the words of yoda, there is no try. if you want to get help, you'll have to tell us exactly what you're seeing :)
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20:51<keaza>pparadis, it sounds stupid... but would it help if you had access into the machine to see the logs?
20:51<sney_>don't give people on irc access to your machine
20:52<sney_>even if it's harmless people like pparadis or me, it's a really bad habit to get into.
20:52<sney_>once you provide solid information on what is wrong, we will be able to help you
20:52<albertsh>I think he meant to just provide logs, not give access...
20:52<sney_>"if you had access into the machine"
20:52<albertsh>oh nvm
20:53<albertsh>I thought he was the helper, not the helped :P
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20:56<keaza>Or is there anyway i can have the machine .... Log the kernal panic more efficintly
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21:02<dpkg>*KERNEL* *KERNEL* *KERNEL*
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21:03<albertsh>you can't log kernel panics
21:03<albertsh>you can, however, get kernel core dumps
21:04<sney_>well, you could log it over a serial or net console (the latter provided a network driver isn't causing the panic)
21:05<albertsh>I tend to think netconsole is for servers, but I guess it wouldn't hurt in a LAN, assuming one has two+ Linux computers
21:05<albertsh>And serial... heh :P
21:06<keaza>i could create a linux vm?
21:06-!-ml|_ [] has joined #debian
21:06<keaza>Virtual machine
21:06<sney_>I think the gx260 does actually have a serial port
21:06<albertsh>If it's a hardware problem, the VM is just going to give you VM hardware, with 99% of the time will not crash...
21:07<keaza>sney_, ill check they for you
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21:09<albertsh>oh yeah there is one
21:09<albertsh>(and ick ick those computers :P)
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21:10<keaza>Ehh, must be the ram
21:10<sney_>haha, indeed
21:11<sney_>or the motherboard
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21:11<sney_>that's a pretty spectacular failure.
21:12<keaza>The thing is though surely... if i was the ram
21:12<keaza>when i used it all to the max
21:12<keaza>it would crash?
21:13<sney_>memory failures are a little more finicky than that, some programs will just blissfully ignore errors, you see the failure when the memory is freed up for something else or something with checksumming uses it
21:13<sney_>your kernel panics may have been the result of disk caching
21:14<keaza>Well, when it was running a minecraft server it was handling it beutifully
21:15<keaza>no errors nothing
21:15<keaza>it would use all 1gb of ram
21:15<sney_>I guess the kind of memory problem you have didn't bother java all that much
21:16<sney_>also, some hardware issues get worse the longer you use the computer without fixing them
21:16<sney_>especially if they're caused by heat or loose connections
21:16<keaza>Well, it makes me ask the question... is it just the usb install
21:17<keaza>becuase everyone is like DONT use usb
21:17<sney_>no? usb install is fine
21:18<sney_>people say don't use unetbootin, but that's for a different reason
21:18<sney_>your problem is because your 6+ year old dell is broken
21:21<keaza>I just hate pc's 'nuff said
21:21<keaza>Windows xp worked perfectly, throw linux onit BOOM it breaks :L
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21:27<pparadis>keaza: in 20 years of using every variant of windows, linux, and multiple other unix variants on every kind of hardware imaginable, i can say with a high degree of confidence that problems happen with everything under the sun. this applies to deployments large and small, regardless of the operating system.
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21:27<pparadis>stuff breaks. end of story.
21:27<keaza>^ true story
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21:31<kop>pparadis: That's the start of the story. The real drama comes in dealing with the breakage. :)
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21:31<pparadis>kop: hehe, truth.
21:32<kop>pparadis: That's why we here in #debian have happier stories. ;-)
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21:32<pparadis>it's why i've stuck with debian for everything i care about, yep.
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21:33<pparadis>much higher works/fails ratio.
21:33<kop>msg judd checkbackport libcairo2
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21:35<pparadis>hey hey hey, lookie here -->
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21:36<kop>Much lower poke-it-with-a-stick/know-what-your-doing ratio.
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21:39<pparadis>kop: nod, in a decade plus of using debian to get work done, it's taken me a surprisingly long amount of time to dig into the guts of many debian-related things, because things just worked. that has historically been time spent building networks and applications instead of fixing nutty core problems with the OS, which i call a measure of a good OS.
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21:59<keaza>pparadis i have what you wanted
21:59<keaza>i found a image of when it kernal panic'ed
22:00<pparadis>post it yo
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22:12<keaza>ANy idea whats causing it?
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22:25<pparadis>keaza: all i can find based on that are issues related to using non-free binary video drivers ala fglrx.
22:26<keaza>I have no idea
22:26<keaza>What would you recomend?
22:26<pparadis>run the memtest overnight.
22:27<keaza>Yea, you saw the mem test image
22:27<pparadis>actually i didn't.
22:27<keaza>OOh ok
22:27<keaza>one mo
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22:28<pparadis>replace your RAM.
22:28<keaza>but it makes no sence
22:28<keaza>beucase when it runs
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22:28<keaza>it can rune minecraft.. perfectly
22:29<pparadis>the system is trying very hard to compensate for bad RAM. it can do it for a while, and then it goes ass up.
22:29<pparadis>replace the RAM.
22:29<scientes>keaza, i've had bad memory, and the computer ran fine, until you opened up a bunch of stuff...etc--and that it would always crash
22:29<keaza>Hmm ok
22:29<keaza>Ill try get some more ram in the next few days for it
22:30<keaza>might be able to get my hands on some tommorow!
22:30<pparadis>actually, it wouldn't even be "compensating" in this case, it really would just be a matter of the system hitting bad memory segments, or RAM going flaky when it appeared fine before.
22:30<pparadis>sney_: looks like you were 100% right from the start, btw.
22:31<keaza>yea, it looks like he was
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22:32<keaza>Might take the sticks out one at a time... see what one it is
22:32<keaza>if its only one of them
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23:25<gotmynick>machine code ?
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23:29<pparadis>gotmynick: 0
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23:36<gotmynick>Long life to Debian o/
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---Logclosed Sat Jul 21 00:00:29 2012