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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-08-11

---Logopened Sat Aug 11 00:00:20 2012
00:00<ladoga>frodo_: there's some ideas what you might try in the thread i linked to
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00:02<frodo_>Se-bash, I went to the site, but i dont understand what i am supossed to do.
00:03<nevyn>model is deprecated if it doesn't justwork[tm] on a 3.x kernel it should be reported as a bug if you can make it work wtih a model hack
00:04<sney_>haha, intel hda will never completely Just Work
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00:06<frodo_>ladoga, I tried alsactl init ... it returned Unknown hardware: "HDA-Intel" "Intel G45 DEVCTG" "HDA:10ec0269,17aa212a,00100004 HDA:80862802,80860101,00100000" "0x17aa" "0x20f2"
00:06<frodo_>Hardware is initialized using a guess method
00:06<sney_>that's pretty standard output for any intel hda
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00:07<nevyn>sney_: this is true.
00:07<nevyn>but the move is towards using model=auto and having the smart in the kernel
00:08<nevyn>for all the crazy boards.
00:08<nevyn>model= is too unreliable.
00:08<sney_>well, I hope it works out, though I doubt it will
00:08<nevyn>so even if a model qurik exists people have to know about it and configure it
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00:13<frodo_>Well thank you all for the assistance, but i need to head to bed. Early day at work tomorrow.
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00:14<Mortchek>Gunman1982, forgot to say thanks. Doing that was definitely much easier than finding the dependencies manually. :)
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00:17<faheem>does anyone know an easy way to estimate the number of source packages and binary packages in wheezy?
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00:25<Gunman1982>faheem, is google that hard to use?
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00:38<faheem>Gunman1982: apparently for me. i didn't see that
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00:42<faheem>udd seems like an obvious way to go
00:43<faheem>but would require some work
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00:50<Gunman1982>faheem do you really need a estimate on the number of packages or on the number of applications/libs?
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00:56<faheem>Gunman1982: source packages and binary packages
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01:37<dynamikztatik>Is there an argument i can pass to iceweasel so it WON'T open a new window? (a tab instead)
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01:40<faheem>-new-tab URL
01:40<dynamikztatik>doesn't work
01:40<faheem>dynamikztatik: i think -n may work for short
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01:41<dynamikztatik>still opens new window :/
01:41<faheem>dynamikztatik: hmm. you should complain then
01:42<faheem>dynamikztatik: iceweasel --new-tab works for me here. squeeze
01:42<faheem>what are you running?
01:43<faheem>iceweasel 3.5.16-17 here
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02:12<devil_>dynamikztatik: you can use TMP as addon
02:13<devil_>dynamikztatik: it gives you lots of options for tab handling
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02:57<cargill>hi, I have a weord problem with my workstation at least on kernels 3.4 and 3.5 (haven't tried to return to 3.2 yet), a few hours after bootup the number of open files (/proc/sys/fs/file-nr) starts climbing and eventually (within a day or a few) they get exhausted
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02:59<cargill>and then the system locks up, before that, it spits out a few "[BUG] soft lockup - CPU#6 stuck fo 22s!" or something like this
02:59<ompaul>cargill: what is your max file limit set to ... what is the function of the box ... what size of system
02:59<ompaul>cargill: also squeeze or wheezy?
02:59<cargill>right now /proc/sys/fs/file-nr reads "337248 0 611293"
03:00<ompaul>cargill: also cat /proc/sys/fs/file-max
03:00<ompaul>ulimit -Hn
03:01<ompaul>ulimit -Sn
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03:02<cargill>debian wheezy with kernel from experimental, 32bit userspace with 64bit kernel, it works as a desktop with smtp/http/dns/mythtv/radvd and a few more services
03:02<cargill>/proc/sys/fs/file-max 611293
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03:02<cargill>ulimit -Hn 4096
03:02<cargill>ulimit -Sn 1024
03:03<cargill>if I kill most processes the number of open files does not seem to lower
03:03<ompaul>something is holding them open what do you use the box for mostly?
03:04<ompaul>you can increase with sysctl -w fs.file-max=1000000
03:04<ompaul>but you have something that is holding those files open
03:04<ompaul>and that is a very high number
03:05<ompaul>moving to a million only means you will lock up in two days
03:05<ompaul>so you have some other issue
03:05<cargill>after bootup it is roughly at 10000, but then it starts clibing up
03:05<cargill>and neither lsof nor netstat find any process that would hold more that several dozen
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03:06<ompaul>pastebin pstree I guess
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03:06*ompaul is waiting on one answer about what the box is used for but no answer
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03:07<ompaul>nor is the system size - clueful things like is it a virtual machine and so on might help
03:07<cargill>there is one open KDE4 session and a few services, an IPv6 tunnel to, radvd, ssh to other boxen in the same network
03:08<cargill>bare metal, intel i7
03:08<ompaul>how busy is the apache
03:09<ompaul>btw I have 3.5 working nicely
03:09<cargill>should be quite silent save a few people tryung to guess whether there is a PHPadmin they could take over
03:09<ompaul>kde 4.8.4
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03:09<cargill>me too on a notebook, even the 3.4 would behave reasonably well there
03:09<cargill>most likely, I'll check
03:10<ompaul>I see nothing that is kde owned in your tree
03:10<ompaul>did you paste the right box
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03:12<cargill>yes I did, there's kblankscrn, nepomukserver, but the metacity seems weird
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03:13<ompaul>I saw no akonadi_control (it forks a bit) heh
03:13<ompaul>no knotify
03:13<cargill>maybe the session died for some weird reason, I'm not physically there now
03:14<ompaul>well log the "desktop user out"
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03:14<cargill>even w says there is now no X session
03:15<cargill>how do I do that?
03:15<ompaul>pkill -u id
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03:15<ompaul>or kill the gdm2
03:15<ompaul>sorry 3
03:17<cargill>gdm killed
03:17<ompaul>was it doing the damage?
03:17<ompaul>your inside number should start dropping
03:17<cargill>no, open files still at 330k
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03:18<Fird055>how to download package with full depend ?
03:18<Fird055>without install
03:18<ompaul>well given that I run 4.8.4 for days at a time on 3.4 and 3.5 in work ... it does strike me as strange
03:19<cargill>I see in yestreday's log that postfix received a lot of "Too many open files in system" during a hour and a half, then there was silence again
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03:20<ompaul>so you got some kind of insane mail loop going on it you are being a relay or spam magnet
03:20<ompaul>what do you use for rbls?
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03:21<ompaul>ok I'll leave you with that thought - I have to go
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03:22<cargill>there is nothing weird in the mail.log, just the ~100 incoming spam messages
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03:30<cargill>there was a "psi: page allocation failure: order:6, mode:0xd0" in /var/log/messages yestreday at noon, and a lot afterwards, then the slew of "VFS: file-max limit 611293 reached" each second, rsyslog claiming to lose millions of messages from avahi-daemon, then apache invokes oom-killer, however there is no pid in that process list that would consume too much memory
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03:32<cargill>however restarting avahi daemon did not help, still at 330k open files
03:32<cargill>so that was a red herring
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03:34<cargill>even apache reports nothing in its access/error logs except the too many open files
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03:36<gdb>cargill: Tried using lsof?
03:39<cargill>yes: sudo lsof -n | wc -l: 18126
03:39<cargill>an order of magnitude lower than 330k
03:39<gdb>Well, it'd also tell you what process has all of those files open.
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03:41<cargill>gdb: output of sudo lsof -n | cut -f 1 -d " " | sort | uniq -c | sort -g:
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03:43<cargill>tried restarting mysqld, its open files lower to 4k, but the files-nr reports no change even now, like the kernel didn't ever reclaim them
03:44<gdb>Well, you don't have the 310k files open anymore so lsof won't be as helpful. I thought the issue was still going on.
03:44<cargill>however files-nr still says there are 336192 files open
03:45<cargill>as much as I'd like to see the issue live, it has never happened sooner than a day after bootup
03:46<cargill>now it seem like a fallout of something bigger
03:46<cargill>but no logs point me to anything bigger
03:47<cargill>nothing where evidence would still exist for me to see
03:47<faheem>cargill: dumb question, but can you identify what those files are?
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03:50<cargill>don't have an idea since lsof does not show them
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03:50<suluckypenn>is anybody here?
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03:50<gdb>cargill: It's the 10th column of the lsof output.
03:50<gdb>Note that not everything lsof indicates is a regular file.
03:50<cargill>gdb: but those are just the 18k files
03:50<cargill>I know
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03:51<cargill>I thought he asked about the remaining ones
03:51<gdb>Yes, so you need to use lsof during the issue. But I think you indicated that you've never seen it while it's happening, you just have some sort of process that's logged the incident? Is that right? I'm not familiar with files-nr.
03:51<faheem>cargill: an indication of the identity of any of those files might be a clue
03:52<faheem>cargill: why not leave some logging process running
03:52<faheem>that tries to identify the files?
03:52<cargill>gdb: /proc/sys/fs/file-nr reports the number of open files in the system AFAIK
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03:52<cargill>faheem: I would need some help creating one
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03:53<cargill>one that would stand a chance of surviving at least a few seconds into the issue so that there is some data to look at
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03:54<cargill>so I guess a shell script is out
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03:54<faheem>cargill: well, you could ask for help here. also forums like can be useful
03:54<gdb>cargill: which column of the content of file-nr is 310k?
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03:56<cargill>i can post the current output of lsof if that is something to start with, but identifying the files once such a weird issue (out of files/memory?) happens, that's beyond my skills, maybe because I don't know how to tackle it
03:56<cargill>gdb: this is the current content of the "file": 336192 0 611293
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03:57<zsolt_hun>hi there.i try to install a debian base system with debootstrap,but in my amd64 desktop.the target system is armel,after installation succeed it complains about chroot and mount
03:59<zsolt_hun>need some advice
03:59<zsolt_hun>thnak you
03:59<zsolt_hun>thank you
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04:00<gdb>cargill: I'm not finding much useful information online about file-nr. For example, my own system here looks like this (which makes no sense in light of what I *have* read): "12288 0 354651"
04:00<cargill>zsolt_hun: I'm not sure debootstrap knows how to handle an arch that your processor cannot run
04:00<gdb>Well, I suppose it kinda makes sense. No unused, yet allocated fds.
04:01<cargill>gdb: the docs that float around are for 2.4/2.5 kernels, there the second number was still used
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04:02<cargill>gdb: that's roughly how it looks before that issue
04:02<cargill>on my system
04:03<zsolt_hun>thank you
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04:04<cargill>just when I was about to suggest he use qemu to do the bootstrapping
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04:07<gdb>cargill: Forgive me this question, but I want to make sure, you're experiencing an actual negative impact to the system due to this, yes? This is something that's actually causing an issue and not something that "just looks weird", right?
04:09<cargill>gdb: I'm not sure when you joined, I filter joins on most channels, this is was the message I started with:
04:09<cargill>hi, I have a weord problem with my workstation at least on kernels 3.4 and 3.5 (haven't tried to return to 3.2 yet), a few hours after bootup the number of open files (/proc/sys/fs/file-nr) starts climbing and eventually (within a day or a few) they get exhausted
04:10<cargill>and then the system locks up, before that, it spits out a few "[BUG] soft lockup - CPU#6 stuck fo 22s!" or something like this
04:10<gdb>Ah, yes, I see that.
04:10<gdb>I've been asleep and didn't review scrollback as I should have. :)
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04:10<gdb>So this is definitely causing an outage.
04:11<cargill>yes, for a few weeks and it's starting to take on my nerves
04:12<cargill>the system is a gateway to my network and runs an encrypted / so if it happens while I'm not there, I'm screwed
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04:12<gdb>I can imagine. Many years ago I had a SMP Celeron that would lock up under load. I suffered it for years until I found online one day there was a defect in the MB. There was some capacitor that was too small. I just ended up replacing the system by that point. I think the machine was 6 or 7 years old.
04:13<cargill>I have to move the IPv6 tunnel and radvd to the NAS, so at least I get there by IPv6
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04:18<uberdub>Hi all
04:18<uberdub>New debian user
04:18<uberdub>stable so far
04:18<uberdub>ditched kubuntu
04:19<uberdub>so far Im really glad I gave up on ubuntu
04:19<uberdub>started in slackware in 04'
04:20<gigix>slackware to ubuntu that's quite q jump ^^
04:20<uberdub>I cant believe I havent run debian earlier
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04:20<uberdub>the reps are what drew me too ubuntu
04:20<uberdub>got tired of compiling
04:20<gigix>make sense
04:21<uberdub>taught me linux tho
04:21<nevyn>debian taught me linux..
04:21<uberdub>yeah its cool I like it
04:21<uberdub>unix like enough for me
04:22<rockon>you are in a big school now with Debian, lots to learn
04:22<uberdub>I shoulda just migrated to debian from slack
04:22<gdb>Commercial Unix doesn't really matter anymore so effectively these days, Linux "is the new Unix."
04:22<nevyn>gdb: solaris is alive and well in my organisation ... sadly
04:22<gdb>At least from what I'm seeing. I work in telecom. Everything is migrating to Linux.
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04:23<gdb>nevyn: Oh, yes, it's still out there in quanity, but new deployments and platform refreshes seem to all end up on Linux.
04:23*nevyn is in govt. so.. you know
04:23<gigix>gdb, which distro in particular ?
04:23<nevyn>gdb: no new T4 clusters and M5's
04:23<nevyn>we're doing that..
04:23<rockon>but that discuss seems to be for #debian-0fftopic
04:23<gdb>gigix: In the enterprise space where I am, pretty exclusively RHEL. I gather that SLES is the choice for mainframe instances.
04:23<uberdub>Im not familiar with any modern languages, and used to know some basic decades ago. So safe to say i probably wont be much help as a dev
04:24<nevyn>uberdub: a debian dev is only sortof a programmer ;)
04:24<nevyn>or can be.
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04:24<uberdub>only sort of?
04:24<gigix>nevyn, what do you mean ?
04:24<nevyn>so that came out harsher than it was intented
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04:25<nevyn>the point was you don't need to be a great programmer to contribute to debian or to be a DM or DD
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04:26<uberdub>I can play with code, test it, compile it, debug it, etc....I cannot write it these days though. Dont really have time to munch code
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04:26<nevyn>many DD's are great programmers.
04:26<gdb>nevyn: I'm neither. I've been intimidated to even try from reading Debian planet. Why? Because the DDs that post there, when they're discussing development, are *substantially* more skilled than I am. ;-)
04:26<gdb>Debian Developer
04:27<uberdub>thats what I thought
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04:29<uberdub>everything is working otb pretty much too
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04:29<uberdub>cant get flash player to my tv through hdmi though
04:29<cargill>gdb: yeah, their skills are daunting, but I've learned so much from reading planet debian over the past few years I have not learned from anywhere/anyone else
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04:30<gigix>I like their posts, some great Python snippet there
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04:30*nevyn finds a bunch of luminaries skills daunting
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04:31<nevyn>mjg's blog continues to facinate amuse and terrify me
04:32<cargill>that one reads like a source of secrets
04:32<nevyn>cargill: the UEFI stuff is sigh
04:33<gigix>ok guys gonna go, see you later
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04:33<uberdub>gnome is going to take some getting used to
04:34<nevyn>uberdub: don't start.
04:34<gdb>You came from Kubuntu, you can use KDE on Debian just fine.
04:34<uberdub>yeah the install I downloaded installed gnome
04:34<uberdub>its ok
04:34<cargill>nevyn: the intent is a good one, the implementation sucks
04:34<gdb>I'm using KDE on Fedora right now as GNOME Shell doesn't work for me. It works on the console, but I frequently access the system using xrdp or NX Desktop, neither of which handle Shell.
04:35<uberdub>its less cluttered than K
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04:36<cargill>uberdub: define clutter :) (then you might like xfce or some such if you liked gnome 2)
04:36<youtux>hi, why if I put my interfaces in /etc/network/interfaces then no interface is working?
04:36<uberdub>xfce is ok
04:37<gdb>CDE was open sourced on 7/31, I believe it was. I'm hoping someone packages that right up. ;-) I'd use it for nostalgia reasons!
04:37<uberdub>gnome seems more streamlined, but less options, and customizations
04:38<uberdub>than kde that is
04:39<nevyn>that's ... reasonable.
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04:39<uberdub>kde is better eye candy
04:40<uberdub>so far gnome is less of a hog too
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04:40<uberdub>is a netbook after all
04:40<gdb>Were you using the KDE netbook desktop?
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04:40<gdb>I mean, I'm running full KDE on a Pentium 4 right now and it's just fine (for me).
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04:41<uberdub>yeah ran fine
04:41<uberdub>my macine can handle it, but it seems to be handling gnome better
04:41<youtux>I'm using a raspberry with blind access, with raspbian (debian wheezy)
04:42<uberdub>im using squeeze
04:42<Calinou>with blind access?
04:42<uberdub>my hardware doesnt like 3.0+ kernels
04:42<youtux>only ssh access, no monitor nor keyboard
04:42<gdb>Ah, more commonly called headless. :)
04:42<gdb>Just so folks don't wonder what you mean.
04:44<Calinou>lol yeah, I thought he was really blind
04:45<youtux>I've got the error "ifup: failed to open statefile /run/network/ifstate: No such file or directory"
04:45<youtux>when i do "service networking restart"
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04:46<uberdub>any body got any ideas why flashplayer audio wont play through hdmi?
04:46<uberdub>my media players do
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05:02<ZTat>How can I suppress certain packages which are triggered to be installed by `aptitude -f install` ? ( Such as evolution and libevolution ... )
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05:05<xie>hi rooms, any people installed wheezy on macbook sucessed?
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05:11<ZTat>xie: what type of macbook ?
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05:12<xie>i run debian 6.0 sucessed on macbook 2.1,when I dist-upgrade,
05:12<xie>the kernal -panic,i want to find the kernal 2.6 diffrent with the 3.2(the debian 7 default),
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05:13<ZTat>xie: are both 2.6 and 3.2 listed in GRUB ?
05:13<xie>the problem should be in /dev
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05:14<xie>yes,run 2.6, everything ok,run 3.2, it seems hang on /dev searching,very quick,
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05:16<xie>it should the diffrent compile option make the error,
05:16<xie>where i can find the wheezy's kernal config file?
05:16<ZTat>/usr/src/*/*config.h # ?
05:17<xie>like the LINT ,Generic file under freebsd, compiler option list
05:18<ZTat>cd /usr/src/* && make oldconfig && make menuconfig
05:18<xie>do I need the 2.6 src and 3.2 src both? for a compare
05:19<gdb>xie: It should be in /boot
05:19<gdb>xie: There's a config file there that contains the config used to build that kernel.
05:20<ZTat>xie: cat /proc/cpuinfo |grep name
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05:23<ZTat>xie: 复制在纸张上的精确内核恐慌的错误信息,然后再回来......
05:23<xie>intel t7400,the blackscreen appears when /dev full population
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05:27<xie>macbook have not a serial port,how can i?
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05:28<xie>compare the kernel diffrent,thanks,gdb, can this problem be a bug reported?
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05:35<dpkg> . Ask me about <nouveau> (no 3D support in Debian packages), <nvidia dkms> or <nvidia m-a>. For GPUs made before 2004, see <nvidia dkms-173xx> and <nvidia dkms-96xx> for legacy drivers. Installing directly from (i.e. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia on
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06:00<uberdub>this is weird Ive got all audio going through hdmi to my tv, but flash videos
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06:01<uberdub>I hate flash
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06:22<Xyoo>I've recently been purging a lot of unnecessary packages and it seems I may have broken gnome's keyring status applet. (The icon that only displays when you have a keyring active) ... does anyone know specifically which package this requires?
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06:39<rockon>uberdub:did you add in source.list "main contrib non-free" to be able to get non-free packages?
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06:45<uberdub>rockon: yes
06:45<uberdub>I have the package
06:45<uberdub>flash plays just fine
06:46<uberdub>the audio just wont play through hdmi to second display
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06:50<rockon>uberdub:do you have module-assistant installed?
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06:54<uberdub>rockon: yes
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06:54<nevyn>Xyoo: how is it broken?
06:55<Xyoo>nevyn: no icon shows up, as it usually would ( after i enter my password for update-manager )
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06:59<fabienwang>Xyoo, i have no icon either
06:59<fabienwang>but i'm on testing repository
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07:15<rockon>uberdub:through module-assistant get alsa-source you need it for HDMI "m-a update, m-a prepare, m-a a-i alsa-source"
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07:18<uberdub>rockon: ok
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07:34<Xyoo>What's the exact difference between evince and evince-gtk ... ?
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07:39<uberdub>rockon: is this what I should be running after installing alsa-source in modula assistant?
07:39<uberdub>"m-a update, m-a prepare, m-a a-i alsa-source"
07:41<Xyoo>abrotman: why would asking multiple channels be inconsiderate? ... what would be the point of both existing, then ?
07:42<abrotman>Xyoo: because someone may not be able to join both or may prefer one network over the other
07:44<Xyoo>yes, well you addressed the -second- question
07:46<abrotman>because someone may help you here, then someone may help you there, and then they have different suggestions, you're doing them at the same time, they conflict, your OS dies
07:47<abrotman>personally, i tend to not help people that continue to ask both networks
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07:47<Xyoo>erh, but you reach a wider audience and thus have a higher change of an appropriate solution >_>
07:48<abrotman>okay, good luck
07:48<Xyoo>btw, evince-gtk appears to like certain metadata savestate like current page or what not
07:48<abrotman>don't care anymore
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08:22<melodie>I would like to know if someone here uses Midori in Debian testing, and if so does it work well ?
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08:42<engla>it works well.
08:43<melodie>hi engla
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08:44<melodie>Maybe webkit or Midori as a compiled in option not available on the PIII CPU Coppermine
08:44<abrotman>wheezy (testing) (web): fast, lightweight graphical web browser
08:45<abrotman>0.4.3-1: amd64 armel armhf i386 ia64 kfreebsd-amd64 kfreebsd-i386 mips mipsel powerpc s390 s390x sparc
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08:55<melodie>abrotman, my companion thinks it may have been compiled with an option such as "sse2" or else, which is not in this cpu
08:55<melodie>here are the flags for coppermine:
08:56<melodie>"flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 sep mtrr pge mca cmov pse36 mmx fxsr sse up
08:56<abrotman>are you saying it crashes?
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08:56<melodie>it crashes in antiX, which has Debian testing for repos
08:56<abrotman>what is antix?
08:57<melodie>the error message is "illegal instruction"
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08:57<abrotman>we have no idea about antix .. it's not Debian
08:57<melodie>antix is:
08:57<abrotman>we have no idea what they've done to their packages... i'm surprised it works at all
08:57<melodie>yes, it's a Debian branding
08:57<abrotman>no, it's not
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08:57<abrotman>melodie: if it were Debian, it would be called Debian
08:57<melodie>it is powered by Debian testing
08:57<abrotman>and thus, it's offtopic here
08:58<abrotman>if you persist with being offtopic, you can be banned
08:58<melodie>not really: please look at this post from the dev:
08:58<melodie>abrotman, you are a charming guy.
08:58<abrotman>no, it's NOT Debian
08:58<abrotman>melodie: you can install debian by obtaining installation media from .. good luck
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09:00<melodie>I am coming here to ask a simple question, about Midori from Debian testing repository : I know, I installed it myself with the synaptic package manager and I know what the sources.list look like. I now just need to know what instructions have been used : for Midori, and for webkit, to find out if the problem comes from the flags, which the error message seem to say.
09:00<abrotman>it is NOT Debian
09:00<abrotman>we do not support distros based on Debian, just Debian
09:01<melodie>who is "we" ? what is your job in the Debian community ?
09:01<melodie>do you know the rules ? the rules are : "be polite, be helpful"
09:01<abrotman>this channel
09:01<olasd>we is this channel
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09:02<olasd>dpkg: frankendebian?
09:02<dpkg>When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. See if you can convince #linux to help.
09:02<abrotman>melodie: this is NOT the AntiX support channel, please use their support
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09:05<abrotman>if melodie had stuck around, i would have told s/he to go to #mepis on freenode .. oh well
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09:28<dragondon>greetings all. Ok, where the heck is the 'remote desktop' setup in Xfce??? I installed the Xfce applet for Remmina but still can't find anything in a menu.
09:29<dragondon>At least with Gnome it was preferences/remote desktop.
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09:30<abrotman>to connect or host ?
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09:30<dragondon>abrotman, sorry, as host. Found the client easy enough
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09:32-!-mode/#debian [-o abrotman] by abrotman
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09:32<abrotman>dragondon: there probably isn't a cute program like in gnome
09:33<abrotman>probably just run xrdp
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09:33<dragondon>Really, surprised at that. OK, moving along :)
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09:34<abrotman>dragondon: i don't use xfce, so i can't comment about a cute applet
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09:35<dragondon>abrotman, heh
09:37<PaulePanter>Just a short survey due to report <>.
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09:38<PaulePanter>Does somebody on this channel have `{amd64,intel}-microcode` installed?
09:38<abrotman>and using an experimental kernel ?
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09:43<CPU>abrotman can u help me with virutal hosts, i read in google, and everthing, trying... but they not work
09:44<abrotman>CPU: has some great docs on it .. what doesn't work
09:44<CPU>my apache only open da rootdirectory
09:44<CPU>i will checked
09:44<CPU>but i thing its no work
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09:45<Apollo>abrotman: would it be allowed to message users your hourly rates when they just want you to do something for them?
09:45<abrotman>you're going to have to paste some files and/or errors
09:45<abrotman>Apollo: no, but we do have if you'd like your name added
09:45<PaulePanter>abrotman: The Linux kernel version does not matter.
09:45<abrotman>CPU: use a pastebin, don't send it in msg
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09:45<Apollo>Eventually that might be a good idea :)
09:46<abrotman>Apollo: i have no idea how much work they get from it
09:46<abrotman>CPU: i'm not going to read that .. use a pastebin
09:46<CPU>what is pastebin?
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09:50<CPU>abrotman i paste but where i see the answer..
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09:51<abrotman>CPU: you have to share the link with us
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09:53<Apollo>CPU: where are your virtualhost files located?
09:54<Apollo>are those directories readable by www-data
09:54<Apollo>ehm, that's not really an answer
09:54<Apollo>it's either yes or no
09:54<CPU>i make a user web
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09:55<CPU>how to make www-data readable for this user
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09:55<abrotman>do you know what they are now /
09:56<CPU>i cannot understand
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09:57<joseph-soares>I'd like to update my python from 2.6 to 2.7. Is there any backport I could use to do this? - Using Debian Squeeze
09:57<CPU>Apollo how to change the dir in www-data account?
09:58<CPU>this is the problem i think
09:58<Apollo>chown www-data:www-data /home/web/www
09:58<Calinou>search is your friend, the answer is: "yes"... probably
09:59<abrotman>it is ?
09:59<abrotman>joseph-soares: there don't seem to be any python2.7 packages in Debian at all
10:00<abrotman>joseph-soares: erm, sorry, not in squeeze
10:00<abrotman>joseph-soares: you wouldn't want to change your /usr/bin/python to 2.7 anyway
10:00<Calinou>well, then you have to upgrade to testing if you want to use 2.7 :/
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10:01<CPU>Apollo its not changing
10:01<Apollo>CPU: we can't really do it for you
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10:03<abrotman>joseph-soares: you can attempt to backport it, but i'd strongly advise against changing your default python
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10:03<joseph-soares>abrotman, Why not?
10:04<abrotman>joseph-soares: your system binaries tihnk that python will be 2.6 .. not 2.7 .. unexpected things may happen
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10:04<Apollo>apt-get is python based as well iirc
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10:04<Apollo>if something breaks there, you're in pretty deep
10:05<joseph-soares>abrotman, Can I have both?
10:06<engla> apt-get is not python-based
10:06<CPU>this is shit apache2
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10:07<Apollo>engla: apparently I confused it with Portage on gentoo
10:07<engla>it's a pretty big difference.. for a debian user
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10:07<Apollo>CPU: I don't think it's apache2, I think it's your inexperience, and lack of proper explanation of what's wrong
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10:08<abrotman>joseph-soares: you can try
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10:09<abrotman>apt suugests python-apt
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10:11<PaulePanter>abrotman: Do you have any microcode packages installed on any of your systems?
10:11<abrotman>how would i know ?
10:12<PaulePanter>aptitude search microcode
10:12<joseph-soares>abrotman, I think I'll do this on a virtual machine =D
10:12<abrotman>be a good place to test
10:12<abrotman>PaulePanter: it would appear not
10:13<PaulePanter>Thank you for figuring this out for me.
10:13<abrotman>PaulePanter: do i want to have it installed? :)
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10:16<joseph-soares>how do I forget know host? Since host has changed its identification
10:16<dragondon>joseph-soares, for wifi?
10:17<abrotman>joseph-soares: in your .ssh/known_hosts ?
10:17<joseph-soares>dragondon, abrotman ssh, yes
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10:22<joseph-soares>abrotman, dragondon I got it. It's -R param + hostname
10:22<joseph-soares>ssh-keygen -R hostname
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11:05<gbwp>I am sorry for a noobish question. My sysop is a wise one, and he doesnt want to install packages that doesnt belong in Debian stable. But my app depends on libcurl >= 7.10.1 to compile. I there any way to install this is userspace and use is only for this application? If so, does that method work with all dependencies? Will it be the beginning of a horrific mess?
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11:05<Apollo>it's the beginning of a horrific mess
11:05<Apollo>and your sysop is a smart guy
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11:06<abrotman>gbwp: it can be made to work ... but it won't be system wide
11:07<gbwp>I don't care that it isnt system wide, I am the only one who will use it
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11:12<gbwp>And it is ok if it's a mess. I can't formulate an adequate google query, so do any of you know how it's done?
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11:13<Apollo>gbwp: usually compiling, and using ./configure --prefix to change the install directory
11:13<Apollo>check the ./configure options with ./configure --help
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11:14<gbwp>Apollo: Thank you!
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11:19<user01>has anyone had issues with debian and connecting via MTP to a nexus 7?
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11:20<mint_>does any one knows how to repair or to remove these bad sectors
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11:20<user01>i followed these instructions:
11:20<user01>except using su since sudo i dont have ;)
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11:25<mint_>does any one knows how to repair or to remove these bad sectors?
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11:39<Misa3l_>hello hello o/
11:39<Misa3l_>i need helppp???
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11:39<Apollo>With what
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11:40<Misa3l_>my keyboard :)
11:40<Apollo>What's the problem exactly
11:41<Misa3l_>I have a question, would go ahead to the position of my keyboard .. the podicion of / dev/input/event1 <---- is my keyboard "PC" I wonder if these positions change on the laptop keyboard example = / dev / input / eventX?
11:41<Misa3l_>it depends if the PC arquitectutra i386 or AMD64?
11:41<Apollo>it doesn't depend on the architecture
11:41<Misa3l_>I know if my keyboard changes pocision different architecture
11:42<Apollo>but if you add more input devices the enumeration will change
11:42<Misa3l_>hummm :D
11:43<Misa3l_>thanks for the reply ;) Apollo
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12:15<mint_> does any one knows how to repair or to remove these bad sectors
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12:20<joseph-soares>I commented about a problem I have, se if you can help me please
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12:22<mmendes>hi, anyone know why there is no qwit package (amd64) in unstable?
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12:28<joseph-soares>I have a problem running flash
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12:31<user01>i was going to try to install debian on my nexus 7, it says to make sure i have a loop kernel per this app . . . what is a loop kernel?
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12:32<TaskUnlock>o i dont know any about debian, just i want to know what i need to type in the terminal, for install basic packages or libraries like deb, man, yum, run, apt, apt-get, aptitude becuz i tried to many ways and nothing i have 2.30.2 if someone can help me i will be gratefully, i added mirror in /etc/apt/sources.list and save it.. but i dont know how refresh or update it.. :s and i got error dont
12:32<TaskUnlock>find /var/lib/dpkg/
12:32<user01>a kernel that supports loop devices
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12:33<TaskUnlock>go on go on
12:34<Gunman1982>TaskUnlock, read 'man apt-get' and/or 'man aptitude'
12:34<TaskUnlock>ok lets see
12:35<Calinou>apt-get < gives enough non-complicated info
12:35<Calinou>without "man"
12:35<TaskUnlock>ok im reading right now thks
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12:44<aPpYe>I am trying to follow the ssd optimization stuff at ... I have set "discard" on my filesystems as such: ... I am not sure what applies to me in the guide since I am not using encryption...
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13:04<snigler>hi folks
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13:05<snigler>quick question I can ping any website from the router but the pc cant
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13:07<snigler>I can access the web interface of the router from the pc so whats wrong?
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13:09<Gunman1982>is the router a debian machine or is it a bought homerouter
13:10<TaskUnlock>what my pc?
13:10<TaskUnlock>not know but check it plz
13:10<Gunman1982>I meant snigler
13:11<TaskUnlock>oh.. im sorry
13:11<snigler>Gunman1982, my pc is debian router has openwrt on it
13:12<Gunman1982>TaskUnlock, no problem, I guess you got your problem solved with apt-get?
13:12<Gunman1982>snigler, ah do you get your ip via dhcp on your pc or did you set a static ip?
13:13<TaskUnlock>Gunman1982 nope, i am thinking better will be download the newest version image, or what u recommend me?
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13:14<snigler>Gunman1982, I set a static ip on pc
13:14<Gunman1982>TaskUnlock, I don't know what your problem still is, you can install packages with apt-get and aptitude, you just need to be root (recommded) or use sudo when you use apt-get/aptitude
13:14<TaskUnlock>well i used debian-6.0.0-i386-CD-1.iso image
13:14<Gunman1982>snigler, did you set the default route?
13:15<sney>TaskUnlock: debian 6 is at 6.0.5 now but it's just security updates and bug fixes, the installer and the OS is the same for all 6.x
13:16<TaskUnlock>Gunman1982, yes i used now but all apps create 0 directorys, installed 0 directorys, updated 0 libraries :s
13:16<snigler>Gunman1982, on the pc I set a default gatewat (the routers ip)
13:16<snigler>Gunman1982, on the pc I set a default gateway* (the routers ip)
13:16<Gunman1982>TaskUnlock, what command did you use?
13:16<sney>TaskUnlock: does your /etc/apt/sources.list file contain a line like 'deb main contrib non-free'
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13:16<TaskUnlock>Gunman1982, apt-get update, sourced,
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13:17<Gunman1982>snigler, and your router works as it should with other os's?
13:17<sney>TaskUnlock: note that that's not the same thing as
13:18<Gunman1982>TaskUnlock, and you are trying to install new software or just update/upgrade?
13:18<snigler>Gunman1982, I dont use any other os ;)
13:18<Gunman1982>snigler, mh did you install openwrt on the router yourself or did it come preinstalled ready to run?
13:18<TaskUnlock>Gunman1982: yes i guess i used another link, and i tried install, and update too.. but nothing
13:19<dpkg>In order for us to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, aptitude or dselect we need the following information: The complete output of your apt-get/aptitude/dselect run (including the command you used); the output from apt-cache policy PKG1 PKG2...; for the relevant packages and "apt-cache policy". Use to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
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13:19<TaskUnlock>ok thank u
13:20<snigler>Gunman1982, yes I flashed it last night (me still a noob though!)
13:20<TaskUnlock>ill doit, thkns a lot Gunman1982, thks dpkg
13:21<Gunman1982>snigler, I never used openwrt but I guess that forwarding is not activated on the router
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13:21<alexandre>Can someone help me ? Is there someone who has ever used the Xlib in C ?
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13:21<dpkg>Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
13:23<snigler>Gunman1982, no its not and I have no switched anything on ie firewalls etc etc , to try to keep it simple, and untill net access is working properly
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13:23<alexandre>I want to create key bindings with Xlib, I have succeeded to do it, but the key bindings of other softwares don't functions any more when my program is running
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13:25<Gunman1982>snigler, I am not talking about forwarding in a port mapping way, I am talking about forwarding capability on the network level, so that the network packets coming from your LAN get forwarded to the internet
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13:27<snigler>Gunman1982, yes thats what Im trying to figure out (how to foward lan packets to router) no port fowarding been done or needed
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13:29<Gunman1982>snigler, you are reading especially the firewall part, right?
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13:34<snigler>Gunman1982, on the router I have no firewall zones setup at all, just for now of course
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13:36<snigler>Gunman1982, and yes I am reading(now!) that link you showed me
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13:37<Gunman1982>snigler, as I said I never used openwrt, I suspect that that is where your problem lies, you can check on your PC with route -n if your default gateway is set correctly
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13:38<snigler>Gunman1982, ok I appricate you help and will do more reading... one more question...
13:40<snigler>Gunman1982, the openwrt wiki states "The default configuration accepts all LAN traffic" and my pc has as its default gateway the routers ip, so shouldnt it just work?
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13:44<Gunman1982>snigler, well it accepts connections from your PC doesn't it?! I couldn't find anything specific about how the forwarding behaves on default with openwrt it sounded like it should work but *shrug*. That's why I said to check your default route with the route -n command on your pc, it should have the values, target: (or default) router: your_router_ip genmask: flags: ug ...
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13:47<snigler>Gunman1982, opps sorry about that (not running the route command) Im on a different pc at the moment but I will go now and do it again thanks
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14:14<joseph-soares>Hey, I have a problem running youtube video. Please, see this video to see how its behavior
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14:20<PaulePanter>joseph-soares: The embedded video on your site works for me with Debian and Midori.
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14:21<joseph-soares>PaulePanter, For me works just if I am no logged on youtube =\
14:21<Gunman1982>joseph-soares, I read somewhere about the issue that video-playback behaves differently when logged in or not ... trying to find the place where I read it again
14:22<sney>is it anything to do with the html5 trial?
14:22<joseph-soares>Gunman1982, Ok, tnaks
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14:39<pedebian>no one talks in the debian kde channel
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14:46<PaulePanter>joseph-soares: Oh, I did not realize that. Sorry.
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14:51<joseph-soares>PaulePanter, Gunman1982
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14:56<user01>mtpfs isnt very stable in debian stable i do not think?
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15:20<sml>hi all. is true debian is to use Xfce as it's standard desktop in Wheezy?
15:20<pparadis>as the default, yes. you will of course still be able to install anything else you want.
15:20<XReaper>you can use anything :D
15:21<sml>sure you can but I think it's a very sensible decision to make it the default
15:21<XReaper>or not have a DE at all
15:21<pparadis>"default" just means it's what you'll get if you select the "graphical desktop" task during installation.
15:21<sml>yeah sure, i know this :)
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15:21<olasd>sml: wheezy is not to be released for a few months, and this decision is nowhere near final IMHO
15:21<XReaper>works and isn't gnome3
15:21<SynrG>there is discussion ongoing
15:21<SynrG>just follow the list
15:21<XReaper>if they chose gnome3 i'd have to kill someone
15:21<pparadis>yeah, it's still being discussed, although i would support sticking with xfce.
15:21<XReaper>pparadis: or anything light with good suppport
15:22<sml>well they should also change exim for postfix but that's another story :P
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15:22<sml>thanks people.
15:22<olasd>that's another discussion that turned up lately
15:22<XReaper>the goal isn't to make debian pull in bloat
15:22<pparadis>hehe, but debian's always love exim as the default mta! :D
15:22<XReaper>pparadis: cos exim is awesome
15:22<olasd>and it's something like 6-12 months too late to make this kind of change for wheezy
15:22<XReaper>and works really well
15:22*pparadis still uses exim light for send-only configs on every debian box he has.
15:22<SynrG>it was observed that CD-1 could no longer hold any desktop unless it was a small one
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15:23<SynrG>so, sensibly, a change was committed to make xfce the default
15:23<sml>well i netinstall all boxes so lightweight for me is fab.
15:23<XReaper>i normally use netinstallers
15:23<SynrG>but of course, there are still specific desktop flavour installers
15:23<XReaper>pulling in 500MB+ of deps for a DE != light
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15:24<SynrG>as for the net installer, that doesn't have the same constraint, so i don't know if they'll stick with the decision there
15:24<XReaper>as i said, if they chose gnome3... heads will roll
15:25<SynrG>i don't see why heads should roll
15:25<XReaper>it's heavy
15:25<pparadis>SynrG: i think it would generate a lot of confusion is there were different default DEs floating around depending on which ISO people used...
15:25<SynrG>people would get used to it
15:25<XReaper>I run xfce on my arch linux laptop :P and debian on one of my servers
15:26<pparadis>heh, that's like saying if you turn half the traffic lights in a city upside down, people will get used to it.
15:26<SynrG>it is already the case that you get different desktops depending on which iso you use
15:26*SynrG shrugs
15:26<olasd>weren't there three desktop isos for squeeze already?
15:26<pparadis>the others are clearly marked as alternates.
15:26<pparadis>there's the "standard" CD, and the others.
15:26<XReaper>gnome2 was good. g3 took all the good and threw it out the window
15:26<olasd>and why do you expect wheezy to be any different?
15:26<pparadis>which i think is totally the right way to go. we could have a netinstall ISO that was marked for gnome3, for example.
15:27<SynrG>one could argue that if someone uses the netinstaller (don't most people?) then they would expect more or less what they got last time. and gnome3 is more-or-less gnome :)
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15:27<pparadis>oldwhat i'm saying is the "standard" ISOs need to give the same defaults.
15:27<pparadis>olasd: ^
15:27<SynrG>anyway, all speculation, and OT
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15:27<XReaper>xfce is gtk so can run gnome apps without the need for too many deps
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15:30<unknown_lamer>so, exciting problem. I have an AthlonMP and both my AGP r200 and new(er) rv570 both barf regularly (*hard* system lockup) in SMP mode, but both work fine when I disable CPU1. I'm guess it's a race condition somewhere in this newfangled KMS graphics... any ideas for who to report to or how to even begin debugging such a thing? (FWIW, I spent a lot of time fiddling with it in agpmode={-1,1,2}, disabling MSI explicitely, running wi
15:30<unknown_lamer>th writeback disabled, etc. and only accidentally discovered that CPU1 being offline made it work)
15:31<sney>well, if a bug has been filed already it'd likely be filed against either the kernel or xserver-xorg-video-radeon
15:31<sney>do you have the firmware package installed?
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15:33<sney>tried with apic disabled?
15:33<unknown_lamer>X11 will start and things will run fine for a bit, but if you do certain things (run most xscreensaver's) it barfs
15:33<unknown_lamer>hrm... I wonder if APIC is disabled when smp is disabled
15:33<unknown_lamer>my r200 worked fine under the UMS driver though
15:34<unknown_lamer>(well, way back when)
15:34<sney>are you able to extract a kernel panic error log? athlon mp board is probably old enough to have db9 serial, so if you have an extra system
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15:34<unknown_lamer>sney: that's the next thing. If I hook a serial console up should it DTRT with the panic log?
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15:35<bch>hello, which package do I have to install to see "man math.h"?
15:35<sney>unknown_lamer: you may need to enable something
15:35<bch>I can include math.h but I want to see the manpage and I cant find it.
15:37<pparadis>unknown_lamer: you may need to edit /etc/default/grub to set this: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="console=ttyS0"
15:37<pparadis>(and then run update-grub)
15:38<unknown_lamer>bch: it appears the APIC is disabled if I disable SMP, but AFAICT if I disable the APIC SMP can't work
15:38<unknown_lamer>hooray for old hardware
15:38<unknown_lamer>do I just give up now and spend a grand on an ivybridge machine...
15:38<unknown_lamer>err sney rather
15:38<sney>bch: it may be in the gcc doc package which is in either contrib or non-free iirc
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15:39*unknown_lamer putters off to hook up the serial console and give crashing the card a shot
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15:39<sney>unknown_lamer: yeah, I seem to remember that from my tualatin box. I'd at least try to find out why it's happening before giving up
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15:40<unknown_lamer>sney: yeah. And here I was thinking I could dust the box off and use it as both a file server and xbmc rig...
15:41<unknown_lamer>I guess I still can, disabling one cpu wouldn't be the *end* of the world, but it's the principle of the thing dangit
15:41<sney>or dig up a non-radeon agp card somewhere
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15:42<unknown_lamer>do any work...
15:42<unknown_lamer>I grabbed the rv570 because I needed "pixel shaders"
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15:42<unknown_lamer>there's also the chance the bug is a regression in the agpgart driver, I'm going to HOPE it's there because it's much smaller and I think I can wrap my head around it well enough to trace through the revision history
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15:43<sney>well, i've been hunting through git bisects to find a change in my wifi driver, so it's fun for the whole family
15:44<sney>all of the geforce3 and up nvidia cards are still supported by various proprietary driver packages in debian
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15:45<XReaper></3 nvidia optimus
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15:45<sney>yeah, optimus is an annoyance, for now it's just a "do not buy" for linux like softmodems and certain broadcom nics etc
15:46<XReaper>i got it working
15:47<XReaper>just a pita
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15:54<unknown_lamer>sney: proprietary drivers are not ok for me :(
15:54<unknown_lamer>damn ethics or something
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15:55<unknown_lamer>this is exciting, I got several panics during bootup with the console attached
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16:07<sney>unknown_lamer: any helpful clues?
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16:10<unknown_lamer>sney: not yet, I have to dig out my db9<->db9 cable, I got a weird kernel panic early in boot when using the console but it scrolled by
16:10<unknown_lamer>sney: the panic happened as it was modesetting so I have some hope!
16:11<unknown_lamer>I just need to attach it to my computer now, turns out the vt420 has a pitiful scrollback
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16:34<dairon>hola estasn alli
16:34-!-rik_ [] has joined #debian
16:34<dairon>hola como estas
16:34<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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16:36<dairon>hola que pasa que no me respondes
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16:45<bravelady> earn up to $1000/month -sign up now!!!
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16:47<abrotman>brave indeed!
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16:54<unknown_lamer>sney: awesome, when it crashes the kernel doesn't even make it to panicing
16:54<unknown_lamer>this is programming an interrupt controller incorrectly level of failure :(
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17:01<waffleking>What is up?
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17:15<tale>waffleking: Opposite of down.
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17:52<pete__># uml
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18:40<dragondon>greetings all. Seems that I can't get my AndroidVNC to connect to my Desktop. xrdp is installed and running, the firewall has been set to allow. What else?
18:40<dragondon>Continual "Establishing handshake"
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18:43<sney>rdp and vnc are totally different protocols
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18:45<dharc>i have a question: xfce is only as default installation via CD-1?
18:45<abrotman>dharc: not yet
18:45<abrotman>at all
18:45<dragondon>ok, so what remote desktop server will work with VNC?
18:46-!-pete__ [] has joined #debian
18:46<abrotman>uh .. vnc ?
18:46<dragondon>just the normal tightvnc server?
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18:47<dharc>abrotman: but DVD-1 and netinst still will come with gnome?
18:47<abrotman>dharc: i'm not sure oyu understand what has been changed
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18:48<abrotman>dharc: when you run the installer, there is the 'task' selectoin, that "Desktop" task will now install 'xfce4' ... that's what has changed
18:49<abrotman>dharc: and the change that will make xfce the default hasn't entered testing yet AFAIK
18:50<dragondon>HA, tightvncserver complained that my password is too long :D
18:50<abrotman>dharc: so if you want to have xfce, just skip the tasksel, and install it later
18:50-!-quentusrex_ [~quentusre@] has joined #debian
18:52<dharc>in fact i prefer gnome. i'm afraid that gnome extinguish with so many people hate it =/
18:53<dharc>debian switching to xfce as the default made me more afraid
18:53<abrotman>dharc: why?
18:54<abrotman>dharc: if you look at popcon, far more installations of gnome-session than xfce
18:55-!-chitchat [~guest@] has joined #debian
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18:57<dharc>but many users are switching gnome to xfce or kde. seems that they were influenced by Linus
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18:58<abrotman>pfft .. that's their decision .. i'm quite happy with gnome3
18:58<abrotman>too bad we can't get more of them to follow Linus about the nVidia nonsense
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19:00<dharc>gnome-session in popcon is declining
19:00<abrotman>maybe you should start a PR campaign
19:02<dharc>well gnome-shell here takes too long to load with nvidia driver after login, nouveau is faster than nvidia, but i need nvidia because i'm playing Crysis :P
19:03<abrotman>i don't use nvidia, sorry about your luck
19:04<dharc>i'm just venting about the gnome's situation and the change to xfce, thanks
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19:05<abrotman>it's not because of a bad opinion about gnome, it's a technical decision about getting a usable desktop to fit on CD1
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19:06<dragondon>People can still install gnome right? They didn't remove out of the whole system did they?
19:06<abrotman>i'm running gnome now
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19:07<dragondon>well, doesn't seem like too much of an issue then. a mild annoyance at best.
19:07<abrotman>sure .. it only affects people that use tasksel
19:07<dharc>then gnome become smaller, debian 8 returns gnome to default again?
19:07<abrotman>dharc: who knows .. worry about it when Jessie gets closer to release
19:07<dragondon>seems like at some point they will loose the 'cd-only' concept because CDs are getting kinda obsolete
19:08<dragondon>have they set a stable date for wheezy yet?
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19:08<abrotman>no, there is no set date
19:09<dharc>february 2013 maybe
19:09<abrotman>no .. set .. date
19:09<abrotman>have to reach 0 RC bugs
19:09<dragondon>I am kinda curious about upgrading....soo tempted to test it out on the 2.6 VM I have running but am biting the bullet as I want stable releases only. Had frustrating experiences previously
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19:10<dragondon>mostly due to my lack of knowledge :)
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19:11<dharc>i am a student of computer science and want to help debian somehow one day. and gnome too.
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19:11<abrotman>there's a page on the website that tells how you can help
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19:12<abrotman>finding and fixing bugs is a great way to start
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19:13<dharc>find bugs i can, but fix them i can't yet :P
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19:16<dharc>and what about kfreebsd? how it will be in wheezy? more complete than squeeze?
19:17<abrotman>one would think
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19:27<pedebian>gnome is getting bloated and debian won't switch from cd to dvd so they are using xfce as the default DE :-)
19:27<abrotman>they have DVD and BR images already
19:27<pedebian>why not switch to dvd anyway? many ppl are moving to usb sticks so it doesn't matter how large the image is nowadays
19:28<suhaib>cheap debian :P
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19:28<suhaib>hey ! how can I mention someone ?
19:28<abrotman>pedebian: they provided floppy images long after people had CD drives standard
19:28<abrotman>hell .. even DVD drives
19:28<abrotman>suhaib: ?
19:28<pedebian>yeah, but no reason to care about the cd version... keep the cd version at xfce and the rest, they can use whatever DE they want
19:28<abrotman>pedebian: okay, fine .. file a bug, see what happens
19:28<nevyn>by default
19:28<suhaib>@abrotman ! yeah how did you do it ?
19:28<pedebian>bug? for what?
19:29<abrotman>suhaib: please don't use the @ sign
19:29<suhaib>then how ?
19:29<abrotman>pedebian: to stop producing CD ISOs
19:29<abrotman>suhaib: type "abro<tab>"
19:29<pedebian>it's just a suggestion
19:29<suhaib>OMG !!
19:29<abrotman>pedebian: so file a bug
19:29<suhaib>Terminal FTW
19:29<abrotman>'suggest' it the correct way
19:29<pedebian>can't be bothered... they aren't going to take my suggestion anyway so why waste the time
19:29<abrotman>okay, then guess you sohuld quit whinig
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19:31<suhaib>abrotman, Thanks
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19:33<pedebian>I can whine still
19:33<pedebian>whine and dine
19:33<nevyn>I'd rather you didn't here.
19:33<pedebian>why isn't this a correct way? it takes seconds to suggest this way
19:33<nevyn>but I'm fine with #moocows
19:34<nevyn>pedebian: that's part fo the problem
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19:34<pedebian>nevyn: ?
19:34<nevyn>09:40 < pedebian> why isn't this a correct way? it takes seconds to suggest this way
19:34<pedebian>why is it a problem?
19:35<abrotman>pedebian: this is the wrong place to make a suggestion
19:35-!-sidmo [] has joined #debian
19:35<abrotman>and if oyu're too lazy to file a bug .. why would we do it on your behalf?
19:35<nevyn>pedebian: the low oportunity cost mostly.
19:35<pedebian>but how is a suggestion a bug?
19:36<abrotman>there are wishlist bugs
19:36<nevyn>it's a wishlist blug
19:36<pedebian>my experience with bug filing is pretty poor... low chance of anything coming from it
19:36<pedebian>compared to the time it takes
19:36<abrotman>and whining here, WAY less
19:36<abrotman>in fact, 0%
19:37<pedebian>and that's why nothing changes
19:37<abrotman>right, because you won't file a wishlist bug
19:37<pedebian>no, cuz the system is poor
19:37<abrotman>the BTS is the way that people make suggestions in Debian ..
19:37<abrotman>pedebian: i'm sorry you do'nt understand how to be part of the community, but you're wrong ..
19:37<abrotman>i'm sorry you're lazy, but please stop whining here now
19:38<abrotman>based on your resistance to reading documentation about NFS, this seems to be a real problem for you
19:38<suhaib>I am using Xubuntu ? what bout you guyz ?!
19:38<dpkg>Xubuntu is a derivative of <Ubuntu> with the <Xfce> desktop environment. It is not supported in #debian, join #xubuntu on for support. See also <based on debian>.
19:38<abrotman>suhaib: this is #debian, try #xubuntu on
19:39<pedebian>I didn't think there would be so many jerks on this channel
19:39<abrotman>says the guy who refuses to file a wishlist bug
19:39<suhaib>So why do you ue debian instead of its derivatives like Ubuntu ? Iam a new Linux User :)
19:39<suhaib>any particular reason ?
19:40<pedebian>I didn't say I refuse... but, if debian wants to continue using cds... why do I care?
19:40<pedebian>I have filed bugs before if I feel strongly about something and the issue pertains to me
19:40<suhaib>LOL I joined Xubuntu channel and I am the only one there :))
19:41<nevyn>suhaib: wrong network
19:41<nevyn>this is oftc
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19:42<abrotman>pedebian: then why do you complain if you do'nt care?
19:42<pedebian>I wasn't complaining... but, you called making a suggestion 'whining'
19:42<abrotman>pedebian: the fact remains that this is the wrong venue to make a suggestion, the BTS exists for a reason
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19:42<abrotman>if you're serious .. if you're not .. conversation over
19:42<abrotman>well, it's over either way
19:43<suhaib>aghhh... I have a lto to learn !
19:43<pedebian>abrotman: ok, whatever
19:44<abrotman>thank you
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19:47<pedebian>at least, I know who not to ask for help... don't bother asking those who call you names, for help :)
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19:52<nevyn>suhaib: when I started using linux there was no ubuntu
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19:53<nevyn>!why debian
19:53<dpkg>Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also (archived at . As an added bonus, you get to ask questions in #debian.
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19:55<nevyn>luca_: you missed a / and it's usually /quit
19:56<suhaib>nevyn, Thanks for the info !
19:56<dpkg>Bug Tracking System for Debian packages, or to go directly to the bug page for a particular package/bug, try or . aptitude install reportbug, and check out <querybts> too. Users of unstable and testing are required to check the BTS. See also <apt-listbugs>, <reportbug>.
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19:57<pedebian>sorry.. I don't know all the irc commands... I guess I shouldn't test here... right?
19:58<heikkila>pedebian, you can chat in private with the bot with /msg dpkg <factoid>
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20:03<abrotman>pedebian: i didnt call you names
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20:06<abrotman>pedebian: i should also note that you might like #debian-offtopic for general chitchat
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20:07<pedebian>I was called lazy and a whiner :-/
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20:08<pedebian>and I apologize for not following the etiquette of suggestions - if that's what is desired/required
20:08<sney_>fighting about how you were treated in #debian is also off topic in #debian
20:08<pedebian>geez :)
20:08<abrotman>pedebian: i didnt call you names, eod
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20:15<dragondon>in case I either forgot or people missed it, thanks for all your help today!
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20:23<joseph-soares>hey, is there how to copy/paste on console?
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20:25<joseph-soares>I mean a command like clipboard
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21:20<clem-west>hello every1
21:21<clem-west>im new here
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21:22<clem-west>how to i reconfigure graphics ubuntu
21:22-!-calisto [] has joined #debian
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21:22<abrotman>clem-west: ask #ubuntu on
21:22<dragondon>hi clem-west , first, you will need to go to the Ubuntu IRC channel ;)
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21:22<abrotman>that was easy?
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21:23<abrotman>too easy?!
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21:23<dragondon>abrotman, maybe :)
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21:24<dragondon>abrotman, I can handle the easy requests :P
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---Logclosed Sun Aug 12 00:00:16 2012