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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-09-21

---Logopened Fri Sep 21 00:00:05 2012
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02:05<rodyduterte>Good afternoon. Chrome is working fine now except for When i login, it wont display. All i see is blank white page. Done re-installing the chrome and update also but still the same. Any thought? Thanks
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02:10<perlwizard>rodyduterte what does wget -O- --server-response say ?
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02:13<jonathan>hi all
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02:18<rodyduterte><perlwizard> It says connected. Or ill pastebin the reply?
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02:23<ranjan>how to use this?
02:23<perlwizard>just like that
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02:26<perlwizard>rodyduterte everything looks fine
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02:27<rodyduterte>Opss forgot the capthca
02:27<perlwizard>what version of chromium are you using?
02:27<rodyduterte>perlwizard: 6.0.472.63 (59945) Built on Debian 6.0, running on Debian 6.0.5
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02:27<jm_>heh that's ancient
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02:29<perlwizard>rodyduterte what kind of internet connection are you using?
02:29<perlwizard>are there any proxis
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02:29<rodyduterte>2mb/2mb im behind the firewall but all ports are open in my local ip
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02:30<rodyduterte>iceweasel is ok but it will hanged if someone will facebook chat me
02:31<perlwizard>old/slow PC ?
02:33<rodyduterte>512mb hehehe
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02:33<rodyduterte>for my test debian www hosting and wordpress experiment
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02:36<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, latest is not meaningful. Latest when? Latest in what distribution? Latest stable or latest development? Refer to software by its version number - that's what it's for. Refer to Debian by its codename or other identifiable feature: 'squeeze' (6.0), 'wheezy' (stable!), 'sid' (unstable).
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02:53<rodyduterte>perlwizard: i will install new debian version?
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03:45<reklipz>I'm trying to understand the ip command (as opposed to the older ifconfig). With ifconfig, I believe I could do a ifconfig down <dev> and ifconfig up <dev>, and the DHCP client would do it's magic trying to obtain a new ip address.
03:46<reklipz>With ip, that doesn't appear to be the case. How can I use ip to release/renew ip's via DHCP?
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04:08<nevyn>ufup and ifdown did snd still do yhat stuff
04:10<reklipz>nevyn: Right, ifconfig had hooks to call ifup and ifdown whenever an "ifconfig <dev> {up | down}" happened. It doesn't look like "ip" does this, or at least not when using "ip link set <dev> {up | down}"
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04:31<john456456>I want to use Debian on a desktop. Would it be a good idea to use the stable build yet use the experimental repository?
04:31<weasel>I doubt most things experimental install on stable.
04:32<weasel>but yes, if you are new to debian, stable is the thing to use.
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04:33<john456456>True. What do you suggest I do?
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04:34<SynrG>john456456: what specific goals do you have in mind?
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04:35<john456456>Running Debian on my desktop yet with moderately new software. (unstable repo still has iceweasal 10 for example)
04:35<SynrG>well, for one thing, experimental is for things considered unfit to release
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04:35<weasel>there is a new iceweasel in the mozilla backports repo.
04:36<dpkg>The "Extended Support Release" version (10) of the Iceweasel web browser is in <squeeze-backports>. Newer Iceweasel and Icedove are at for squeeze or in <experimental> for wheezy and sid.
04:37<john456456>Yes, I know.
04:37<weasel>then why ask?
04:37<john456456>I meant that as an example for the rest of the software.
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04:38<weasel>if you want living on the bleeding edge, then maybe debian isn't for you.
04:38<weasel>me, I prefer working software.
04:38<SynrG>can you give a better example, something that is not iceweasel that you think experimental would be a solution for?
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05:02<reklipz>What audio subsystem does GNOME 3 use? When I'm playing with the "Sound" settings; is that ALSA, OSS, ???
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05:02<reklipz>The reason I ask: I just setup software mixing for ALSA, and the info shown in the "Sound" application doesn't coincide or make much sense in that light.
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05:14<SynrG>reklipz: at the kernel layer, alsa. at the desktop layer, pulseaudio
05:15<reklipz>SynrG: Ah, okay. GNOME uses pulse, which is wired through to ALSA under the hood, yea?
05:15<reklipz>So... the "virtual" devices in ALSA get lost in translation?
05:15<SynrG>so for instance, if you use alsamixer and don't specify a device, you see pulseaudio's view of the world
05:16<SynrG>but if you say alsamixer -c 0, for example, you can get at card 0
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05:16<SynrG>it's all still there
05:17<reklipz>Sure it is, but, in the Sound settings app, I only see physical devices, and there is no notion of the alsa "virtual" devices.
05:17<reklipz>So basically, this settings panel is useless for me?
05:17<reklipz>Or rather... it's only useful for apps that use pulse.
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05:17<ectospasm>you should still be able to set the output device in the GNOME sound application...
05:18<reklipz>And those apps have to use physical devices, because pulse doesn't know about the virtual ones?
05:18<reklipz>Under Output, Input, and Hardware tabs in the sound app, I only see the physical devices listed.
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05:19<ectospasm>reklipz: why does it matter? what are you trying to do with these "virtual" devices?
05:20<reklipz>ectospasm: software mixing
05:20<reklipz>I assume pulse provides it's own software mixing?
05:20<reklipz>And I assume that means I can't use an alsa app and a pulse app at the same time, unless I can wire pulse to also use the dmix device I've setup?
05:20<ectospasm>yes, pulseaudio's primary purpose is software mixing
05:21<ectospasm>reklipz: the alsa app should use the pulseaudio virtual device
05:22<reklipz>ectospasm: You're saying that there should be an ALSA device that pumps through pulse?
05:23<reklipz>Hah, and there is...
05:23<reklipz>Kind of roundabout...
05:24<ectospasm>you should probably look up how the pulseaudio architecture is set up
05:24<reklipz>I'd rather go the other way though, have pulse piped into the dmix device I've setup in ALSA, and let the apps that use ALSA skip the roundabout loop.
05:24<ectospasm>sounds like you're trying to do it the hard way
05:25<reklipz>Well, it sounds like if you use pulse once, you have to use it everywhere.
05:25<reklipz>And that means that ALSA apps have to use the "pulse" device in ALSA, which ultimately comes back to ALSA under the hood anyway.
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05:26<ectospasm>I think you've got the idea about the relationship between ALSA and PulseAudio wrong, but I can't articulate why or how.
05:26<reklipz>Care to walk through it with me?
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05:27<ectospasm>you're talking about ALSA apps, which actually sit in the user sound program layer. Below that, there's PulseAudio, which sits on top of the Advanced Linux Sound Architecture layer (kernel drivers, etc.)
05:27<ectospasm>and now I must go...
05:27<reklipz>okay, bye!
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05:30<reklipz>My goal is to enable software mixing of ALSA apps and Pulse apps. Which means that either Pulse has to be wired to sink to a dmix ALSA device, or all ALSA apps have to use a device that sources to Pulse. The first way means I have two software mixers running concurrently, and the second means I have only one running, but it's Pulse, and not ALSA.
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05:32<wuxort>is there somebody who could help me in some kernel compiling?
05:33<wuxort>not in the how to compile stuff, more of a specific kernel stuffs
05:33<SynrG>reklipz: tons of people have blogged about pulseaudio/alsa relationship, screencasted, written magazine articles, etc. google around a bit? i can't recommend one in particular
05:35<wuxort>i have googled about this numa stuff, but can't find, if non-server(pc, arm) computers are ought to use this, or its only a server stuff
05:35<reklipz>SynrG: I'm seeing that. I think I understand the relationship just fine, I'm just not familiar with configuration of Pulse and whether or not I can configure it to use a plugin device.
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05:51<shinta>hello all...
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05:52<reklipz>shinta: hello
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06:55<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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07:00<XReaper>and that's how they reply!
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07:09<wuxort>I have a problem with kernel building. I can't find any documentation about NUMA in matter of I don't want to use it, because i want my kernel on a laptop.
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07:11<jm_>then you don't want NUMA
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07:35<daemonkeeper>A question: I'm customizing a live USB stick for a person. Can I make installation of software and configuration persistent.
07:37<daemonkeeper>(or do I better end up to install a plain Debian to USB?)
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07:41<arand>daemonkeeper: Yeah, Using a boot parameter and an extra "persistence filesystem"
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07:42<babilen>daemonkeeper: IIRC persistence is discussed in the live-manual ...
07:42*babilen summons SynrG
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07:43<daemonkeeper>Just reading, thanks. But I think installing a regular Debian won't be a problem either, is it?
07:43*SynrG materializes in a shimmer
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07:44<SynrG>*cough*, who dares summon ... *cough* ...
07:44<SynrG>i mean, what's up?
07:44<SynrG>daemonkeeper: please clarify. a live USB stick containing which image?
07:44<babilen>SynrG: Oh great ... Err ... Can you come up with better techniques for debian-live persistence than what is discussed in the manual?
07:45<arand>daemonkeeper: Should work, though you might want to tweak fs options a bit to be usb-friendly...
07:45<SynrG>installing regular debian is no problem.
07:45<daemonkeeper>SynrG: stable, but I guess a pristine Debian installation should be easier for my use case (a portable operating system)
07:45<SynrG>using persistence is no problem either, but take care to follow the doc for the version you use.
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07:45<SynrG>"persistence" option is for unstable/testing. "persistent" is for stable.
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07:46<babilen>What would be the more sensible solution? A persistent live USB or a real installation?
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07:46<SynrG>daemonkeeper: arand quoted the manual for unstable. wrong for a stable image
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07:46<SynrG>daemonkeeper: see and follow the link for 'stable'
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07:47<SynrG>i have done both ... i have no practical long-term experience using either
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07:47<SynrG>my live usage tends to be non-persistent because i can always build another image if i didn't like what's on the one i built before.
07:48<SynrG>in general i tend to be wary of union filesystem technologies because they change with the seasons, upstream disowning each one that preceded
07:49<SynrG>that is, i will trust my live system to it, but i don't necessarily trust it to use as a "real" system
07:49<SynrG>that's based on a vague feeling of distrust, however, as opposed to concrete evidence that long-term use is harmful
07:49<SynrG>that's about all i can offer :)
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07:56<SynrG>daemonkeeper: the one thing i can think of that you'll likely run into with a "system on a stick" whether it's a real system or a live system is the tendency for hardware-specific settings to cling to your install and cause issues later. udev auto-generated rules, etc.
07:56<SynrG>with a non-persistent live image, you don't have to worry about this so much because the live boot & config process sets up a "pristine" environment based on what it sees at boot time
07:56<SynrG>so you can easily migrate it from host to host
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07:57<SynrG>that most closely matches what i'm after when i use a live image
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07:57<daemonkeeper>SynrG: True.
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07:57<SynrG>this is partially solved by limiting your persistence. you can use just persistent home ...
07:58<SynrG>and migrate that home to a remastered image whenever you decide to update it.
07:58<SynrG>(i say "partially" because hardware-specific things may "cling" to your dotfiles in home, too :p)
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08:00<arand>Hmm, is there any way to edit existing entries before boot from the syslinux menu?
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08:01<arand>Since even with /-persistance, it would be possible to boot non-persistent temporarily?
08:02<SynrG>yes. if you have made an hdd image you can mount the image loopback with an offset, then directly edit that
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08:03<daemonkeeper>SynrG: I think I'll just prune udev rules upon shutdown (I'm going the regular installation way now)
08:04<SynrG>daemonkeeper: oh, one case i can think of where persistence fails is the case of updating a kernel. since the persistence layer is grafted in *after* the kernel boots, this causes obvious problems
08:04<SynrG>that's related to what arand said above
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08:04<SynrG>daemonkeeper: yes. the live toolchain gives you all of the ingredients to make a truly portable system on a stick. some assembly required, though :)
08:05<SynrG>like, it's not an insoluable problem to re-mount the media and update the kernel & initrd, but it's not convenient
08:06<SynrG>any aspiring live developer should recognize this not as an obstacle, but an opportunity :)
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08:08<arand>SynrG: Oh, I meant "during boot" rather, can you edit syslinux menu entries from the syslinux boot menu, or would you need to know them by heart and rewrite them at the empty "boot:" prompt?
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08:10<SynrG>arand: i don't nkow
08:10<SynrG>ah ... rewrite dynamically just for the boot
08:11<SynrG>you mean as in "append the 'persistence' parameter". you can do that
08:11<SynrG>doesn't it say the key to press? i forget
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08:16<SynrG>arand: Tab edits options for a menu entry (pretty sure it says that)
08:16<SynrG>arand: Esc returns you to the menu
08:17<SynrG>er, sorry, returns to the command line, i think
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08:17<SynrG>embarrassing that i don't know this off the top of my head :) but again, a lot of my usage of live images tends to be of the "build and use as-is" variety
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08:24<cambal>when I reinstall (fresh install) my distro (wheezy), on a separate hd, i just do mdadm --assembly to get my raid5 running againb? (raid 5 are 3 1TB physical disks)
08:24<cambal>never done that, my mdadm was created by someone else
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08:28<reklipz>OT: I'm trying to think of a word that means "spans multiple stages." I'm trying to describe a data type/model that not only contains the final output from a pipeline, but also details about the about from various stages along the pipeline.
08:28<reklipz>I can't think of a word, and that description and context is too long. Any ideas?
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08:33<SynrG>reklipz: you ask a lot from the English language :)
08:33*abrotman thinks there is a ##English on freenode ?
08:34<reklipz>There is a #english; with a whopping 7 users idling! Anyway, I'll just come back to it. Sorry for the distraction...
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08:34<SynrG>note that '##' is not '#'
08:35<SynrG>note also that freenode is not OFTC :)
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08:36<SynrG>(had you joined #english @ freenode, it would have redirected you to ##english in any case)
08:36<SynrG>and when i joined there were 222 users
08:38<reklipz>Sorry, I used to idle #debian on freenode as well. I forgot I'm on OFTC.
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08:46<siddy>does anyone run xfce?
08:46<siddy>are they the same on every distro?
08:47<abrotman>likely have some patches, and version differences
08:47<SynrG>to your first question, surely yes (but not personally). to your second, quite probably no, but the differences are probably slight. care to elaborate?
08:47<siddy>I want to run sid so I'll do a new install... but, I tried xfce on another one...but, there's no way to change clock settings?
08:47<siddy>I made the mistake of installing siduction instead of pure debian sid, sorry :)
08:47<abrotman>change it to do what?
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08:48<siddy>I'm used to kde
08:48<abrotman>time what?
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08:48<siddy>changing the time
08:48<abrotman>to a 24hr clock? sync the time to an NTP server? timezone?
08:48<siddy>I suppose
08:48<SynrG>*pick one*
08:48<SynrG>those are different questions
08:48<siddy>I usually use 12hr
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08:49<SynrG>are you trying to change the clock appearance? the timezone? or just bring the clock back into sync with reality?
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08:52<siddy>I guess the timezone... the time is incorrect so I assume the wrong time zone is being used
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08:53<dpkg>A time zone is the standard time (aka local time) in a particular region. To change the timezone on Debian systems, execute "dpkg-reconfigure tzdata". Alternatively: "cp -b /usr/share/zoneinfo/$TZ /etc/localtime". Note that tzselect(1) does not change the timezone. Postfix users: execute "invoke-rc.d postfix restart" to update localtime in the chroot.
08:53<SynrG>this is not an xfce-specific thing
08:54<siddy>In kde, there would be a clock setting
08:54<siddy>I've run the ntp program in cli before, though...
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08:55<SynrG>while modern desktops do grant some limited ways to change system-wide things ...
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08:55<SynrG>i personally prefer learning desktop-neutral ways to accomplish the same things. ymmv.
08:55<SynrG>as for specifically whether xfce does or not, i don't know. i am not an xfce user.
08:56<SynrG>you might find help about that at #xfce @ if you want to pursue it
08:57<SynrG>i'm particularly suspicious of things that desktops do that might not take effect outside of the desktop environment ... (if i used my desktop to change the timezone, i would want my clock at a console session to reflect the same change)
08:57<SynrG>that being said, i'm not a kde user either. i don't know what it's doing there.
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08:58<siddy>SynrG, that's a good point... but, I thought it's just the time... :)
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09:00<SynrG>i'm not convinced. consider a hypothetical multi-user system providing virtual desktops to a geographically diverse user base, each user wanting to configure their timezone to match their own local timezone. so it does not follow that adjusting the timezone in a desktop would necessarily change the system clock. (maybe a somewhat contrived example, but not wholly far-fetched)
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09:00<devil>siddy: if you can't work with siduction, you will fail to run sid also
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09:01<siddy>devil, piss off... and take your sh*t distro with you
09:01<devil>siddy: ahh, nice :)
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09:03<SynrG>siddy: i perceive you have a "past" here ... that being said, i think devil makes a good point
09:04<SynrG>siduction aims to "tidy up" sid to make it more palatable for end-users. sid is the raw, real experience of living on the bleeding edge
09:04<siddy>I tried that distro... and I had some trouble so I went to the channel for support and he insults me
09:04<SynrG>if you have very basic problems even getting siduction to work, you're in for a rough ride with sid itself.
09:04<siddy>SynrG, probably, but I hope I'm not insulted the first time I have trouble
09:04<devil>siddy: i never insulted you until you came to troll
09:05<siddy>usually, someone will ask for pastebin or something but I'm insulted almost immediately
09:05<siddy>I might have a 'history' but they do, too... the 'sidux' group
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09:05<SynrG>in any case, this isn't the place to air your grievances
09:05<SynrG>please try to stick with actual support questions
09:06<siddy>fair enough
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09:07<siddy>the community is larger, more active and probably tolerate more... so... :)
09:07<siddy>I have to go out but I'll try an install later today.....
09:07<SynrG>k. good luck
09:07<siddy>I just want to learn how to configure a sid system....
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09:09<babilen>siddy: You might also want to join #debian-next and read the links in its /topic (FAQ, ...)
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09:41<darius>hi, Im using wheezy and I want to make all usb storage devices mount automaticaly. It looks like enabling it in system setings (GUI) works ok for one device, but second device I plug does not get mounted. I allso tried usbmount but thats mounts devices in predefined directories and directories allways exists.
09:42<darius>I prefer cli configuration if posible..
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09:43<ahtmly2k>HELP: I just got a WD MyBook Essential 3TB and I'm trying to format it as NTFS from Disk Utility in Ubuntu. I chose "Format Drive" set it to "Master Boot Record" it went fine. But Then when I tried to create a partition (I used the whole disk) as NTFS an error showed stating a few lines of command ending up with the line "Error: Can't have a partition outside the disk!ped_partition_new() failed" at the bottom.
09:44<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
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09:51<haylo>darius: thats not really a debian issue, but you can mount those drives with fstab. use blkid to look up the didks UIUD and the add it in the same way you see your other partitions in /etc/fstab
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09:54<darius>haylo, tha point is to mount absolutely any storage device, I dont know what devices can be pluged in future..
09:54<jack214>Does anyone have any suggestions when it comes to wireless PCI cards with great Linux compatibility?
09:55<jack214>I have one that uses the Ralink RT2800 firmware and it's not so great, I get constant connection drop-outs and others seem to have this issue as well.
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09:56<movl>jack214, atheros
09:56<movl>or intel
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09:57<jack214>Thanks, I'll see if I can find one on Amazon
09:57<jack214>The only reason I haven't switched over to Debian on my desktop is that my wireless card doesn't agree with it. :P
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09:58<haylo>darius: i think you add a file to /etc/udev/rules.d
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10:02<jack214>Thanks :)
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10:04<babilen>jack214: Which ralink device do you have exactly? Is it a USB one?
10:05<jack214>No, it's a PCI. Let me see what it is.
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10:07<jack214>Hm, I don't have the exact model on hand. However, it seems like the connection drop problem is common for this firmware.
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10:11<babilen>jack214: Which version of Debian and which kernel do you use?
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10:12<jack214>I'm on Debian testing x64. Kernel 3.2.0-3-amd64
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10:14<babilen>jack214: Ah, ok. Just asked because there is a special testing/unstable channel (#debian-next) and I wasn't sure. If you had been running 2.6.32 I would have suggested a new try with the rt2800pci driver (and firmware) from backports.
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10:17<jack214>Aye, I'm starting to think that at this point it's better that I just buy a more compatible card.
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10:19<haylo>jack214: whats the full name of the card if you run lspci ?
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10:19<babilen>s/lspci/lspci -nn/
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10:20<jack214>I'll have to check back with you later on that. I'm not at home so I don't have access to the machine
10:21<babilen>jack214: Either way: If replacing that card with, say, an atheros or intel one is an option then go for it.
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10:24<jack214>I might as well. This is such a headache.
10:24<jack214>I've been itching to switch over to Debian on my desktop now that I've perfected my tint2 config. :P
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10:36<andrea_>sorry guys, i have this usb drive which has this problem: geometry = 1024/0/62, sectors = 0, start = 0
10:36<andrea_>how can i get it to work?
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10:40<haylo>andrea_: have you tried "zeroing out" the device? looks to me like the drive geometry was changed and then subsequently failed.
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10:46<andrea_>haylo: can i do it with hdparm?
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10:48<SynrG>andrea_: more like with dd. it's the partition table that stores such stuff
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10:53<SynrG>andrea_: you can stomp the mbr and partition table in one go with: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1 (but make absolutely sure you're pointing at the right drive!)
10:53<SynrG>then use fdisk to recreate the parititon tables and partitions with correct geometry
10:54<SynrG>(by "right drive" i mean, replace /dev/sda with the actual device for your USB key)
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10:55<mitia>babilen, I've just had another freeze; I post some log just to confirm that nothing is written before the stop of the OS:
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10:55<haylo>'dmesg | tail -n30' after you plug in the drive to find the exact drive name you will see it end with sdb, sda, sdc or something like this
10:55<SynrG>andrea_: you can use "ls -l /dev/disk/by-id" to fairly readily identify your USB device
10:55<babilen>mitia: /me shakes his fist in anger
10:55<SynrG>haylo: circumstantial evidence :)
10:56<mitia>and also to exclude that the installation of intel and realteck microcodes didn't solve the problem
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10:57<babilen>mitia: I secretly hoped that they would
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10:59<babilen>mitia: And you didn't play with optirun or anything like that? What I find interesting are all those messages about nvidia not being supported. The actual card you have *is* supported by the nvidia driver version in wheezy and sid. I am therefore not sure why you get those messages and assume that it is related to the Optimus setup.
10:59<babilen>mitia: I would blame that for the instability you experience, but given that you run a development release it might be something else too.
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11:00<babilen>mitia: Would you mind /join'ing #nvidia on to discuss this?
11:00<mitia>babilen: me too, also because I'm sorry to annoy you with that
11:01<jack214>Random question: has anyone had any experience with playing Windows games on Debian using a Xen hypervisor?
11:01<babilen>Oh, that's fine. If I would be annoyed by support questions I wouldn't be here ;)
11:01<mitia>no, I didn't use optirun anymore
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11:04<mitia>babilen, all the nvidia messages are random, my logs are full of them whitout any particular reason since i'm usig the intel chip and never tried to call the nvidia by optirun
11:05<babilen>mitia: yeah, you might want to ask in #nvidia about that
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11:05<andrea_>SynrG: :(
11:06<SynrG>andrea_: uh? not at all the command i suggested you run ...
11:09<andrea_>SynrG: yeah but the second command is the one with dd and it tells me "No medium found"
11:10<SynrG>loose connector? what's sdc?
11:10<SynrG>looks like it could be a 4G usb key
11:10<SynrG>if you plug/unplug/replug a drive quickly enough, you'll get multiple devices allocated for the same drive
11:10<andrea_>sdc is the other 4GB dongle i have
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11:11<SynrG>and the method i sugested is much more verbose, e.g.
11:11<andrea_>the sdb device is a 2GB usb key which have problems
11:11<SynrG>lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 Sep 21 12:08 usb-Kingston_DataTraveler_II+_5B720CB323C1-0:0 -> ../../sdb
11:11<SynrG>i found lshw's output a bit confusing and scarily generic sounding. i wouldn't trust it
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11:16<SynrG>so it does look like /dev/sdb is correct. i don't understand the error though ... is this one of those U3 devices?
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11:19<andrea_>SynrG: nope, it's just a defective usb drive i guess
11:19<SynrG>i would guess, too :/
11:19<andrea_>i thought i could just recover it with a correct geometry
11:19<SynrG>out of ideas
11:20<andrea_>god U3 sucks so much
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11:20*SynrG nods
11:21<SynrG>i have an ex-U3 device. works like a charm once you disinfect it (with windows-only software, bleah)
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11:23<andrea_>SynrG: cant do that w/ linux?
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11:23<andrea_>u got to be kiddin me
11:23<babilen>!tell andrea_ -about u3
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11:23<SynrG>there was a tool that claimed to support it, but it wouldn't work for me.
11:23<SynrG>don't know the status of that tool today
11:23<babilen>andrea_: Try the u3-tool ... I have never used it though and only just learned about the abomination that is U3
11:24<SynrG>i just gave up in frustration and disinfected it on a buddy's windows workstation
11:24<SynrG>babilen: that's the one
11:25<SynrG>this was years ago. maybe it has improved since then
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11:25*SynrG shrugs
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11:44<movl>what's u3?
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11:50<jack214>it's the work of the devil
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11:51<jack214>For a few years, Samsung made USB sticks with "U3" on it, which is basically a launcher for programs on the stick
11:51<jack214>it was generally known for being a pain in the ass and for being annoying to remove
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11:57<andrea_>SynrG: well, when at first it came out i immediately realizet how invasive it would have been
11:57<andrea_>i was much more a windows guy at the time so it wasnt a big deal getting rid of it
11:58<TCW>What was the reason for inventing a USB-stick that appears as a CD-drive?
11:58<michealPW>Uhh, my Trash keeps showing a "New Folder" and I can't seem to "empty" it :|
11:58<TCW>somehow I don't get it
11:58<michealPW>Anyone got advice?
11:58<TCW>michealPW, on what filesystem?
11:58<michealPW>I've obviously tried the "Empty Trash" option. Beyond that I've used find to search for everything called "trash" and delete all the contents.. Still it's there :(
11:59<michealPW>TCW: ext4
11:59<TCW>michealPW, no... I mean... let me rephrase :) Do you have multiple filesystems or just one where your system is installed to?
12:00<michealPW>I have 3. The main / filesystem, and 2 other partitions mounted to /secondary and /storage (all are ext4)
12:00<abrotman>michealPW: in WHAT?
12:00<michealPW>Debian 6.0.4 stable (Squeeze)
12:00*abrotman gives up
12:01<michealPW>Oh, hrmm. I think I see where TCW's going with this :P
12:01<michealPW>Jah I've found it
12:02<TCW>michealPW, and on what filesystem was that folder you try to get rid of?
12:03<michealPW>It's ext4 and I don't have write access, that's the problem (It's in /storage/.Trash-1000)
12:03<michealPW>Now I just need to figure out why chmod doesn't work the way I expect it.. If I ls -l /storage, it shows that it's owned by root and the group "users"; My two users I added to the group "users" but still we can't write to /storage even though I set g+rwx with chmod :|
12:03<michealPW>LOL maybe it's the way the filesystem's mounted in fstab? It only has the "default" option set :|
12:03<TCW>basically... that trash-thing in a desktop environment tends to suck, no idea why and how to fix that. Best option I found until now, remove the files manually in an xterm from that ".trash-uid" folder in its root
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12:04<michealPW>Righto, thx.
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12:04<TCW>michealPW, no... no fstab / mount options could help there. That "trash" just sucks :)
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12:04<TCW>btw. what DE do you use? Gnome?
12:04<michealPW>For a secondary problem, could you help me with these file permissions on "/storage" (Which is a second filesystem mounted as ext4)
12:04<michealPW>Yes, GNOME v2.30
12:05<TCW>ah good 'ol squueze :)
12:05<michealPW>Ah perfect, that fixed the Trash problem btw. I used a terminal and sudo rm -rf ./.Trash-1000 hehe
12:06<michealPW>Now my trash is "empty" :)
12:06<TCW>michealPW, I guess so, describe the permissions problem
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12:06<michealPW>TCW: Right, well I used chown to set root:users as the owner for /storage. It's ext4 and mounted with default options in fstab.
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12:06<TCW>sudo rm? You have sudo configured in ubuntu-ffashion?
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12:07<michealPW>TCW: Then I set chmod to u=read,write,execute, g=read,write,execute and o=read,execute
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12:07<michealPW>TCW: haha yes I setup sudo just like Ubuntu (blushes)
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12:08<michealPW>TCW: Then I added myself and the other user on this system to the users group..
12:08<michealPW>TCW: but still only root can write to /storage :|
12:08<TCW>michealPW, ls -ld /storage, paste that
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12:10-!-mode/#debian [+l 513] by debhelper
12:10<michealPW>drwxrwxr-x 12 root users 4096 Sep 21 12:05 /storage
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12:11<michealPW>Using mkdir /storage/testing I get this error:
12:11<michealPW>mkdir: cannot create directory `/storage/testing': Permission denied
12:11<TCW>michealPW, id <your-user-id>, paste that
12:11<michealPW>uid=1000(michealpw) gid=1000(michealpw) groups=1000(michealpw),24(cdrom),25(floppy),27(sudo),29(audio),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),108(netdev),109(bluetooth),114(scanner),1002(webdevelopers)
12:12<michealPW>Oh I don't see users in there :|
12:12<michealPW>When I uses System -> Administration -> Users and Groups -> Manage Groups I have a check beside my name :|
12:12<TCW>adduser michealpw users
12:12<michealPW>In the Users
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12:13<TCW>michealPW, learn to use the command line tools... apparently you seem to find a lot of suckiness in the fancy desktop environment :)
12:13<michealPW>Yes indeed!
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12:14<TCW>and the command line is really not that hard to learn, at least when it is about those basic adminitrative tasks.
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12:14<TCW>and when debugging issues, one needs the command line too, so why not learn it in the first place? :)
12:14<michealPW>Will adduser michealpw users preserve my existing list of groups?
12:15<michealPW>Righto, thx mate ;)
12:15<michealPW>Ack, GNOME broke it!
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12:16<michealPW>The user `michealpw' is already a member of `users'.
12:16<michealPW>But yet still id doesn't show users haha
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12:16<TCW>michesadly you need to relogin to make thse changes effective
12:16<TCW>michealPW, even
12:16<michealPW>Oh, interesting!
12:17<michealPW>Maybe that's been the problem this whole time?!
12:17<michealPW>LOL maybe the GNOME dialog needs me to relogin, too
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12:17<TCW>I doubt that
12:17<TCW>but could be
12:17<michealPW>Well, I'll wait 'till this download finishes and then I'll relogin. Thanks a lot for the help, mate ;)
12:18<andrea_>jack214: yeah U3 was basically a rootkit
12:18<michealPW>Btw, you guys will be happy to know I've removed Firefox, setup the squeeze-backports repository and installed Iceweasel v15 :)
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12:19<michealPW>I think, maybe Iceweasel (The ancient v3 one that shipped with Squeeze) could have a startpage that explains the whole Iceweasel thing and how to setup backports to get the latest Iceweasel...
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12:19<jack214>I just can't get over how much I dislike the name Iceweasel
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12:20<michealPW>Yes it's a weird name :|
12:20-!-mode/#debian [+l 519] by debhelper
12:20<michealPW>I guess it makes sense, though.. Ice/fire, Weasel/Fox LOL
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12:22<michealPW>*sigh* is there no simple way to get an updated Wine installed on Squeeze? It's not even in the backports :|
12:23<weasel>isn't the one one the wine website?
12:23<TCW>wine is... somewhat a tough thing in squeeze :)
12:23<michealPW>If I add the wheezy or sid repository, which has at least wine 1.4, wouldn't that mess everything up for my Squeeze system? :|
12:23<TCW>micheyeah, donÄt do that
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12:23<TCW>michealPW, even
12:23<michealPW>weasel: Unfortunately, no. They don't provide anything for Deb just a link to some guy's personal list. I had no luck with his debs, I keep getting unresolvable dependency errors :|
12:24<michealPW>Something about libtinfo5. Can't find that in the main or backports, either. I think it's ncurses library?
12:25<michealPW>Iunno. So frustrating. Wine 1.0 is like, not even usable haha. That's all that seems to be available for Squeeze :|
12:25<weasel>you could try ubuntu's ppa
12:25<michealPW>I was worried that might make my Debian setup all yucky, though :|
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12:25<weasel>it might. often the yuckyness is well contained tho
12:26<michealPW>mm, maybe I'll poke around the Ubuntu site see what I can't come up with
12:26<ratnick>what's the better security inventory app, lsat or tiger?
12:26<weasel> *** 1.4-0ubuntu1~ppa2~oneiric3 0
12:26<weasel> 500 oneiric/main amd64 Packages
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12:26<weasel>is what I have here
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12:26<michealPW>Jah, 1.4's the wine stable that would be good
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12:40<michealPW>There, added the ubuntu-wine ppa for lucid. Lets see if apt can get wine1.4 now :)
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12:41<michealPW>Crap, well that backfired haha lucid only has 1.2 :|
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12:42<haylo>usually it is advised to get the .deb files directly from the wine official site
12:43<michealPW>haylo: The wine official site does not contain deb files for Debian, though?
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12:44<retrospectacus>did you check here
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12:45<michealPW>retrospectacus, yes but they give me dependency errors, iunno what the issue is?
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12:46<retrospectacus>you could show us at
12:46<retrospectacus>I haven't felt the need to wine in many years ;)
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12:47<michealPW>hehe I'm hopelessly addicted to Windows-only games :(
12:47<michealPW>And my poor ol' beast of a computer couldn't dream of hosting a virtual machine heehee!
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12:50<engla>playonlinux can be a good way to get various version of wine
12:51<engla>also an easy way to keep configuration for diff wine apps separate
12:52<michealPW>Yea i like playonlinux but I couldn't figure out how to get it to run arbitrary .exe's in a specified prefix :|
12:53<retrospectacus>right I used that for a while to play Worms Armageddon :D
12:53<retrospectacus>,v playonlinux
12:53<judd>Package: playonlinux on i386 -- squeeze/contrib: 3.7.6-1; sid/contrib: 4.1.1-1; wheezy/contrib: 4.1.1-1
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12:54<michealPW>dpkg hates me
12:54<dpkg>i don't know, michealPW
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12:54<michealPW>One dependency error after the next, LOL!
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12:55<michealPW>libwine-unstable depends on libmpg123-0 (>= 1.13.7); however: Version of libmpg123-0 on system is 1.12.1-3.
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12:56<michealPW>Also libwine-gl-unstable requires libtinfo5 which I can't seem to find for my Squeeze or squeeze-backports
12:56<varunpriolkar97>guys, need some help..
12:56<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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12:56<varunpriolkar97>should i be compiling a kernel with O3 optimisation flag or O2?
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12:57<retrospectacus>varunpriolkar97: you shouldn't be compiling a kernel
12:57<varunpriolkar97>\i m running one wiht O2 optimisation flag fr gcc
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12:57<engla>wow that sounds terrible
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12:58<haylo>michealPW: run the package another time, but use aptitude. i think you will find it can fix the dependencies that dpkg couldnt when you first used dkg to install the package
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12:58<retrospectacus>!tell varunpriolkar97 about make-kpkg
12:58<engla>michealPW: you're making a mess out of your repositories
12:59<michealPW>Aptitude, ehh?
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12:59<varunpriolkar97>i use make-kpkg to compile.. -.- wanted more info about gcc cflags..
12:59<varunpriolkar97>googled it.. nothing much found..
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12:59<engla>michealPW: you're a newbie? Then def don't do what you are doing.. otherwise you'll soon have to reinstall after wrecking your debian install
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13:00<retrospectacus>varunpriolkar97: what kind of problem are you experiencing?
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13:00<varunpriolkar97>retrospectacus: well.. i wanted to know is a O2 optimised kernel faster or is a O3 optimised kernel faster?
13:00<michealPW>engla: Weeeell, I need a respectable version of Wine :|
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13:01<retrospectacus>varunpriolkar97: that isn't a problem....
13:01<michealPW>engla: The main repositories have Wine 1.0 and the new one isn't in the repos.
13:01<michealPW>I've added the Ubuntu ppa, which has wine1.4
13:01<michealPW>I just need to figure out how to install it, now LOL!
13:01<retrospectacus>michealPW: that won't work, almost certainly
13:02<retrospectacus>playonlinux is your best bet, i'd say
13:02<varunpriolkar97>retrospectacus: thanks.. i gotta go.. thanks a lot for your help!
13:02<retrospectacus>or dual-boot
13:02<retrospectacus>varunpriolkar97: have fun
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13:03<michealPW>Well.. That leads me to my next set of problems, with playonlinux (rofl)
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13:04<michealPW>playonlinux is create, I mean I installed a bunch of games and different wine versions.. But how can I make it run an arbitrary .exe in a specified prefix? Everysingle game POL installs goes into it's own unique prefix (To eliminate conflicts)
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13:04<michealPW>So.. I mean, each prefix could have it's own wine version..
13:05<michealPW>So using playonlinux you can, from the command line do: playonlinux --run someshortcut
13:05<michealPW>Where someshortcut is something you've installed and appears in your POL shortcut list.. But you can't specific, for example: playonlinux --prefix warcraftII --file somerandomfile.exe and have it run in warcraft II's Wine environment.
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13:07<michealPW>Sorry, it's hard to even explain what I want to do :(
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13:07<ivo888>hi, i`m in my broken debian via chroot. i can ping ip. but i can`t ping website (like i know that the problem is in resolv.conf. but: cat /etc/resolv.conf cat: /etc/resolv.conf: No such file or directory ls -la resolv.conf lrwxrwxrwx. 1 root root 31 Jul 29 13:09 resolv.conf -> /etc/resolvconf/run/resolv.conf . so, how can i add nameserver?
13:08<engla>michealPW: you can do that with playonlinux.. configure -> Misc -> Run .exe in this virtual drive
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13:09<retrospectacus>michealPW: there is also irc:// and of course docs on
13:09<michealPW>GAH i'm an idiot :|
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13:10<michealPW>I've been fiddling with POL all day, didn't think to look in configure I guess :|
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13:25<michealPW>Alrighty.. Removed the Ubuntu PPA, fixed the broken package dependencies with apt-get -f install and then installed PlayOnLinux from the POL repo
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13:25<michealPW>Thx, guys :)
13:25-!-varunpriolkar97 [~varunprio@] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
13:25<michealPW>Btw, as a side-note... So dpkg -i <somepackage.deb> will not sort out dependencies, but aptitude <somepackage.deb> will?
13:25<michealPW>Local .deb packages, I mean ^
13:26<babilen>michealPW: No, but you can always run "apt-get -f install" (-f == fix broken dependencies) after a dpkg run
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13:27<michealPW>mm, it kind of forced me to, which apt-get -f install just removed the wine .debs I was trying to install LOL
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13:27<retrospectacus>smart :)
13:28<michealPW>Like I would install with dpkg which would give me errors about unresolvable dependency problems and so then anytime I tried to use update manager, synaptic or apt-get it would warn me to run apt-get -f install (Which removed the .debs LOL!)
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13:28<michealPW>So it was kind of a circle of failure I was running in :(
13:28-!-meho [~meho@] has joined #debian
13:28<michealPW>With dpkg, anyways.
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13:28<retrospectacus>the .deb was uninstallable
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13:29<michealPW>I figured :(
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13:29<michealPW>That's why I gave up on those .debs and tried to see if I could use the Ubuntu ppa... LOL!
13:29<michealPW>I was desperate :(
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13:30<michealPW>Luckily, I couldn't figure out how to get apt-get to install from the ubuntu PPA after adding the ubuntu ppa into my repository list...
13:30<michealPW>Which I was told is a good thing, 'cause that Ubuntu stuff probably would have messed up my Debian setup LOL
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13:30<retrospectacus>no doubt
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13:31<retrospectacus>meho__: do you have a debian question?
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13:31<michealPW>... In a way Debian's kind of user-friendly for newbies :P
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13:31<michealPW>In that it's smart enough to know when it shouldn't be installing things haha
13:31<retrospectacus>meho__: this is not a search engine.
13:32<michealPW>haha retrospectacus
13:32<retrospectacus>!tell meho__ about irc tutorial
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13:33<michealPW>I think I"m going to try Fedora
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13:33<Guest7829>buonasera, qualcuno può aiutarmi con i driver wifi su debian (laptop dell studio 1555)
13:33<michealPW>Then maybe I'll come back to Debian Wheezy instead of Squeeze (I'm using Squeeze right now)
13:33<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
13:34<retrospectacus>!tell Guest7829 about wifi
13:34<Ichabod>you understood that? :p
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13:34<retrospectacus>I understood "wifi" :P
13:35-!-streuner_ [] has joined #debian
13:35<retrospectacus>"good day, something something with wifi driver on debian, dell etc."
13:35<Guest7829>wireless, i follow this wiki
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13:38<retrospectacus>Guest7829: yes?
13:40-!-mode/#debian [+l 527] by debhelper
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13:41<slavender>We are repackaging the Openstack projects. Is there an easy way to generate differently named packages without a wholesale edit of the debia files? For the previous release we out sourced the debian file edits. Seems like it's going to be painful. Looking for a better way.
13:41<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
13:41<Guest7829>retrospectacus i have send lspci to pvt
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13:42<Guest7829>Network controller: Intel Corporation WiFi Link 5100
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13:43<retrospectacus>Guest7829: please run "lspci -nn" and paste the line for WiFi here
13:43<maru>I run into some trouble with my Debian Wheezy system. I accidently deleted the /etc/init.d/rcS conf and now after a reboot it doenst boot correctly. I can boot in recovery mode and edit / write files so is there a possibility to generate a new rcS ?
13:44<Guest7829>Network controller [0280]: Intel Corporation WiFi Link 5100 [8086:4232]
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13:45<retrospectacus>Guest7829: you need to install firmware-iwlwifi from non-free
13:46<Guest7829>it is installed
13:46<retrospectacus>should be fine then
13:47<retrospectacus>maru: yes
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13:47<retrospectacus>Guest7829: does "ifconfig -a" show your wireless device?
13:47<retrospectacus>wlan0 or so
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13:51<retrospectacus>maru_: and chmod +x of course
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13:54<tux_>retrospectacus thanks, wifi is active and running
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13:58<AlexLikeRock>hi GUYS ! :-) good mornig
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13:59<maru>okay.. now i ran into anothe rproblem. if i try to save the new rcS, it tells me that the system is mounted readonly.. :/
13:59<retrospectacus>hey Alex, happy friday :)
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14:00<retrospectacus>maru: how did you run the system? liveCD or ?
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14:00<maru>no. simply rescuemode
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14:00<maru>i tried rescue mode and normal mode from grub. same problem on both
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14:02<retrospectacus>maru: well a liveCD would be easiest. You could try mounting / rw
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14:05<maru>yeah. this will gonna be fun *sigh* . its a laptop without a CD drive and the HDD is cryptsetup/luks encrypted. So i have to disassemble the laptop, put the HDD in an external HDD housing and use a live CD on my desktop PC
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14:06<maru>the install luks support there and create the rcS. so many problems for deleting a single file accidently :S
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14:07<maru>but better than reinstalling the system.. thanks for your help!
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15:02<ratnick>How do I correct: he system permits source routing from incoming packets ?
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15:04<ratnick>I'll look on the web :)
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16:00<xubuntu>hi im from peru
16:00<xubuntu>this is probe installing version
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16:00<xubuntu>xubuntu how view videos
16:01<daemonkeeper>Now you troubled so far just to be told you missed the last exit. For Ubuntu leave the data highway on exit #ubuntu on motorway
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16:04<dpkg>Xubuntu is a derivative of <Ubuntu> with the <Xfce> desktop environment. It is not supported in #debian, join #xubuntu on for support. See also <based on debian>.
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16:21<TCW>does ubuntu still ship IRC clients with debian channels preconfigured?
16:21<devil>xchat afaik
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16:23<TCW>*shaking head*
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16:31<AlexLikeRock>wish one desktop environment it less heavy . for a old PC
16:32<AlexLikeRock>lxde , xfece, flubox , Enlightenment ....
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16:46<variable_>hi, i'm trying to fix broken packages but i'm getting this error:
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16:46<variable_>So hot to fix those broken packages if I'm geting erros =]
16:47<retrospectacus>mv /usr/share/doc/gcc-4.7-base/changelog.Debian.gz .
16:47<agaida>rm /usr/share/doc/gcc-4.7-base/changelog.Debian.gz
16:47<retrospectacus>then try again
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16:48<variable_>hmm so which one's command i have to do? =]
16:49<agaida>i prefer rm :)
16:49<retrospectacus> mine keeps a backup. Probably not needed
16:49<variable_>ok i'll try agaida =]
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17:03<ratnick>I have a GUI Squeeze OS with only 812 packages installed. Minimal for me compared to desktop environment bundle.
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17:08<retrospectacus>this desktop has 1695 and one of my servers has 120
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17:13<variable_>I have actually one complaint, and it's about dependencies. It's a nightmare (some times). If you ask me why: well lets say... I need to install an application named "AAAA" but to install it I need to install more some libs, because it depends on it. Ok, so I do it. But with error, because of versions inconsistency or because to install one lib I need to remove half system libs or applications which I need =]]] so tell me is there any body of y
17:13<variable_>ou had this experience? =]
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17:14<variable_>I just update my system, but to do it correctly I had to remove some libs AND skype
17:15<retrospectacus>sounds like testing/sid shenanigans
17:15<variable_>ok I have tried to install it again but ups again those dependencies :=
17:15<variable_>yes I'm i sid =]
17:15<variable_>*on sid
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17:16<scientes>multiarch fun
17:16<variable_>yes, even when you are just simple user =]
17:16<ratnick>it's in the numbers
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17:17<retrospectacus>did you read
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17:19<variable_>"Always be careful when you perform updates" =] I knew that, but this time I forgot.
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17:38<TCW>"23:16:39 <variable_> yes, even when you are just simple user =]" sid + "simple user" that does not match very well...
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17:39<arunkumar339>hi all
17:39<ratnick>oneofall, hi
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17:52<Rock_n_LoL>hello, is possible to do scripting like php with html5 or not yet? if no it will (or is expected to)?
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17:54<retrospectacus>php can output anything you want, html5 included of course
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18:00<Rock_n_LoL>sorry, i was not clear. i would like to know if by using html5 will be possible to do scripts
18:01<agaida>not really
18:01<agaida>html spells hypertext markup language
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18:02<retrospectacus>html is markup, not programming. You can write scripts with javascript
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18:06<Rock_n_LoL>so with version 5 it will add lot of new features but to do some more "interesting" tasks javascript and php will be needed like right now?
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18:08<retrospectacus>more or less. Do you have a Debian question?
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18:08<scientes>retrospectacus, html + css was actually prooved turing complete
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18:11<retrospectacus>I doubt you could write even a calculator app with just html and css
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18:23<Rock_n_LoL>i think i understand now. Html: to define the content of a web page - CSS: to define the style of the webpage - PHP: nothing that can be compared with the other two; programming language that can generate them.
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18:23<retrospectacus>yeah. PHP decides (on the server) what to actually output. It outputs HTML, CSS and/or JS which controls what the user sees
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18:31<Rock_n_LoL>maybe by reading information about HTML 5 and everyting it is going to do i was deceived
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18:34<Rock_n_LoL>thank you
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22:40<Drakk>Hey. Quick question. Can anyone tell me if kernel modules labled as experimental are compiled in Debian kernels?
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23:17<soar>how to talk to the bot here
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---Logclosed Sat Sep 22 00:00:09 2012