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#debian IRC Logs for 2012-11-11

---Logopened Sun Nov 11 00:00:19 2012
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00:45<helmuth>en español
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03:02<blunted>I can't play some youtube videos like ones that are in an iframe but I can if I goto youtube directly
03:02<blunted>is there something I need to do so it will play them
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04:05<snafu>hello all
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04:58<GreenMartian>remastersys..will this make it into the debian repos?
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05:04<Calinou>in debian zorg, yes
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05:04<devil>GreenMartian: never ever
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05:07<GreenMartian>devil: fair enough, thanks for your reply.
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06:01<mh182>Does anyone have problems with Debian Sid? I upgraded a few packages yesterday (I assume xserver or lib*mesa* are the reason) and today it freezes on starting kwm. Worse - when starting in recovery mode my USB keyboard is not working anymore.
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06:03<mh182>Now i started with a recover CD and I would replace the existing deb packages with the old version in the cache. My problem - how do I install a package when i started with a rescue CD? I think i could chroot could be help but i dont know exactly how it is done
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06:08<ntroofy>mh182 text mode, remove problems packages, dpkg -i from local filesystem
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06:16<mh182>ntroofy: sorry I didn't mention it - i'm in text mode. my keyboard is not working in text mode. My system is not bootable. The rescue mode starts up but my kezboard ist not working. The standard mode freezes when starting xserver
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06:18<mh182>and i have no clue why my keaboard is not working in rescue. I assume soemthing did break also in console-setup, because the console is not switching to smaller fonts durig bootup.
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06:47<devil>mh182: no problems at all in sid. all dandy using kde
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07:24<khalaf>hi wesal
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07:31<mh182>hmm - i just checkd the dameon lgo files and I found a new line "acpid: cannot open input layer"
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07:33<mh182>hmm the whole USB subsystem isn't loaded anymore
07:36<mh182>ehci_hcd is not loaded. But i have no clue why. The upgrade since yesterday didnt install any kernel, nor module packages. the only package upgraded which goes approx in this direction is libprocps0
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07:46<SynrG>mh182: as per channel topic, wheezy/sid support is on #debian-next
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07:49<abrotman>they can still ask here
07:50<abrotman>just like we have #debianppc but they can ask here, there's just a channel that "specializes" in that topic
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07:51<abrotman>mh182: what packages were upgraded?
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07:55<devil>mh182: and what does dmesg say about usb?
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07:56<SynrG>abrotman: it's fine. it's just he's not had useful responses for over an hour
07:56<SynrG>so i thought given the lack of response, maybe directing him to #d-next would be best
07:56<abrotman>maybe he fixed it? :)
07:56*SynrG shrugs
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08:11<mh182>abrotman: nothing really critical - give a sec and i can paste the debs -
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08:16<mh182>abrotman: mostly non ciritical packages (vlc and some video related packages (libavcodec, ...), wpasupplicant, cups, mesa, x-server). the system critical packages: aptitude, lsb-release, libprocps0, some perl modules
08:17<mh182>SynrG: thx for the info - i ditn know that channel
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08:18<mh182>I was just bussy on the othe screen - paring log files (dmes, syslgo etc. of last days to see the difference)
08:18<abrotman>mh182: i'd use a pastebin ...
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08:19<mh182>abrotman: give me a sec - i'm on a rescue CD and i have no clue how this IRC client is working. i barerly made it here to the channel ...
08:20<mh182>abrotman: is thie on another IRC server?
08:20<abrotman>no, a website
08:21<mh182>got it - HTTP browser
08:22<daemonkeeper>Well, I feel like being a 10 years too late to ask this, but is there any way to verify the parameters with which my kernel modules were loaded? For background, I'm trying to find out if my modprobe.d stuff really works.
08:23<abrotman>daemonkeeper: modinfo doesn't? nothing in /proc/kernel/ ?
08:23<daemonkeeper>abrotman: Well, modinfo tells me parameters, not the runtime state.
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08:24<abrotman>daemonkeeper: i've seen it somewhere
08:24<abrotman>daemonkeeper: let me poke around a minute
08:24<daemonkeeper>/proc/sys/kernel does not seem to contain what I'm looking for either
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08:25<mh182>abrotman: I just checked my syslog - the first diefference between yesterday and this morning is the line "Nov 10 14:12:30 saturn acpid: starting up with netlink and the input layer" vs "Nov 11 10:40:43 saturn acpid: cannot open input layer" ...
08:26<mh182>aboudreault: err. and a couple lines missing ... all line with "input:"
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08:26<abrotman>daemonkeeper: /sys/module/<modulename>/parameters/
08:26<abrotman>daemonkeeper: i think that's what you want?
08:27<abrotman>mh182: tried a reboot?
08:27<daemonkeeper>abrotman: Yes! Thanks.
08:27<abrotman>i think they moved it since the last time i needed it
08:27<mh182>abrotman: a couple times. normal boot, recovery boot
08:27<daemonkeeper>abrotman: No, still there.
08:27<daemonkeeper>I'm on 3.5
08:28<abrotman>daemonkeeper: i'm saying, i think it was in /proc/ last i used it
08:28<abrotman>mh182: okay .. so perhaps look a bit further back in your package logs
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08:29<abrotman>mh182: you're using debian-multimedia?
08:29<abrotman>and you have packages on hold
08:29<mh182>aboudreault: yes
08:30<abrotman>mh182: when is the last time you did a full-upgrade?
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08:30<mh182>aboudreault: 1.11. -- all packages upgraded, except the multimedia
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08:31<abrotman>mh182: abr<tab>
08:31<mh182>abrotman: sorry ...
08:31<mh182>abrotman: the last upgrade on the cirtical packages was the 1.11.
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08:32<mh182>abrotman: there i upgraded also grub, libc and the linux kernel
08:33<mh182>abrotman: but I rebooted since then each day.
08:33<abrotman>you didn't really answer my question
08:34<mh182>abrotman: which one?
08:34<mh182>abrotman: the last full upgraded was 10 days ago - 01.11.2012
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08:36<mh182>abrotman: and I tried to boot my machine with an aolder kernel - same issue
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08:45<winsen>Hi all
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08:46<winsen>Does anyone know please how to setup debian on a smartphone and particulary on 'galaxy n' ? thanks
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08:49<bzed>winsen: why would one want to do that?
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08:54<winsen>bzed: because I prefer debian.
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08:56<abrotman>winsen: are you expecting it to still make phone calls?
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09:04<gnugr>winsen:on my smartphone in main menu exists an app "Complete Linux Installer" wich include 6 distros (2xubuntu, backtrack, debian, slackware,Archlinux, opensuse) try to find that application
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09:10<mh1821>this didnt resolve my problems - ... still no input layer
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09:25<yuri->howdy, any dh
09:25<yuri->*dh_installman expert here?
09:25<yuri->its documentation is pretty lacking
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09:28<SynrG>yuri-: lacking in what way? just ask your question
09:28<pajaro>is there a way to search from within all man pages other than zgrep the directory?
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09:28<juri_>so, theres a bug squashing party, and i can't get my favorite bug squashed. i hate iscsi.
09:29<juri_>my partner here has submitted two bugs, and what the maintainer says in the bug report about the patches is false... he's taken the discussion off-list. I HATE ISCSI. ;)
09:29<pajaro>juri_, wheres the BSP?
09:30<juri_>trying to get a bug that has existed for four #(%# years patched..
09:30<juri_>i actually assumed it'd be somewhere near here, due to the #debian hashtag. ;)
09:30<pajaro>i mean phisically. is not listed in here
09:31<dpkg>from memory, bsp is bug squashing party, in #debian-bugs
09:31<pajaro>or is it virtual? :>
09:31<juri_>oh, wow. there isn't one on my continent. ;)
09:31<juri_>i presumed it'd be virtual. my mistake. back to letting debian ship broken code. ;P
09:31<pajaro>juri_, then start one... duh... u.u
09:31<pajaro>juri_, where are you from?
09:32<juri_>pajaro: i'm in washington, DC.
09:32<pajaro>theres got to be enough ppl interested in having one there xD
09:32<juri_>i don't really have a facility set up right now. still in the 'planning' stage of setting up my new freegeek.
09:32<juri_>just cursing because this bug, which has followed me for 1.5 years now has a patch (two, actually), that fix it..
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09:33<juri_>i'm hoping someone can tell me why these maintainers are being a pain, OR make them not-so-painful.
09:33<pajaro>it sounds awesome, whats the caveat?
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09:33<SynrG>juri_: bug#? you haven't said what it is
09:34<juri_>there was a caveat on the first, in that it 'synchronized' the kernel's ABI on x86 between x86_32 and x86_64. since having the same abi on both archetectures would be an ABI change, that was deemed a no-go.
09:35<juri_>so, me and my partner spent a week writing a patch for userspace which was ugly and invasive, but fixed the case of 32bit userspace/64bit kernel, without changing the ABI.
09:35<juri_>people don't like the style... but i'm very much from the camp of 'this breaks nothing, and fixes this bug. apply it or die'.
09:36<juri_>and given that we've already spent over a week of labor here, i'm QUITE upset about the 'meh, changing code is hard!' attitude.
09:37<juri_>i'm running th fix, so this isn't going to effect me anymore, but i think it would be a crying shame to let a bug that has existed for four years ship in weezy.
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09:37<mh1821>OK - it seems udev ist not starting anymore. and i have no clue why.
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09:38<pajaro>all the rush comes when the freeze stage enters... musicians know how to fix this in concerts... they stop playing an hour before they intended to actually stop
09:39<pajaro>maybe relase team should do something similar
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09:40<SynrG>juri_: from what i just read, there was no good solution to this on that report until the proposed patches just a week and a half ago. the maintainer raised a valid objection, and after lisa marie's response, there is not yet any response from the maintainers. this looks to me just like the maintainers are busy
09:40<SynrG>not "being a pain"
09:40<juri_>synrg: in fact, the maintainer took it off-list.
09:41<SynrG>well, i can't comment on that, as it's off-list
09:41<juri_>right. and since it was the maintainer who did it, i conside that 'being a pain'.
09:41<juri_>as this means the last email in that list contains false information about the patch.
09:41<SynrG>well, that's between you and the maintainer at this point. if you think there's further info that needs to be included in the report ...
09:42<juri_>'this works, and does not change the kernel ABI, DIAF'?
09:42<yuri->dh_installman: it spits an error about file or dir being not existant; '... at /usr/bin/dh_installman line 127'; however, the man file itself is in my debian/ dir + packagename.manpages file contains just the filename of that man file
09:42<SynrG>well, something a little less abrasive and with more actual technical content
09:43-!-hbomb_ [] has joined #debian
09:43<yuri->so i wanna ask how should i use it, or how should i define all the paths
09:43<juri_>synrg: indeed. :)
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09:43<SynrG>yuri-: which version of debhelper?
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09:46<yuri->lemme see
09:46<SynrG>yuri-: rather than saying what the error is "about" use for actual output
09:47<yuri->well yeah, itd be lovely but dont have any copypasta ability ATM
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09:49<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or for pics. Use for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>.
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09:50<yuri->here we go:
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09:50<yuri->the server uses Czech locales... so dont mind these translated parts
09:50<yuri->it means File or directory
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09:54<SynrG>!tell yuri- about localised errors
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09:57<SynrG>yuri-: and which debhelper version?
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10:02<Zipl0ck>I can not remove all the apache packages without removing gnome and everything under it. libapache2-mod-dnssd somehow depends on gnome How can I resolve this?
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10:04<yuri->how should i get the version? --version at dh nor dh_installman dont work
10:04<SynrG>dpkg -l debhelper
10:04<dpkg>ii debhelper 1.4-1.2 ultra s3kr1t #debian package
10:05<SynrG>where is the manpage afsadm-client.1 in your source directory tree?
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10:06<SynrG>yuri-: i suspect you have simply given the wrong path to it in your .manpages file. filepaths will be relative to '.' (i.e. the root of the source tree)
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10:11<yuri->.manpages contain simply 'foo.1'
10:11<daemonkeeper>yuri-: What are you trying to do? Not sure what you're using, but its not a package coming from Debian. Neither your version nor your description is sensible.
10:11<yuri->the foo.1 itself is in debian/ dir
10:11-!-ari_ [] has joined #debian
10:11<yuri->so it should work :)
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10:11<yuri->yeah, im sorry; this is my 1st deb ever
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10:11<daemonkeeper>err, forget it, I confused your output with dpkg.
10:11<daemonkeeper>bad dpkg.
10:12<daemonkeeper>yuri-: But then again, why do you need the version?
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10:12<yuri->i got dephelper version 8.0.0 installed
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10:12<yuri->i rly dont need a version...
10:13<daemonkeeper>It's barely needed in the package working flows, so that's why dh has no -v/--version
10:13<yuri->debhelper: <SynrG> yuri-: and which debhelper version?
10:13<yuri->it wasnt me who had wanted that version info
10:13<daemonkeeper>I mean it has -v but it does not mean --version :>
10:13<SynrG>i had asked only so i could find which line the error message came from
10:14<SynrG>by the time you finally coughed up the version# i had surveyed all versions available to me and found the probable line
10:14<SynrG>but thanks
10:14<daemonkeeper>yuri-: Where is afsadm-client.1?
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10:15<SynrG>yes. exactly my question above 10 minutes ago
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10:16<yuri->in the debian/ directory
10:16<SynrG>so in your .manpages file, specify debian/foo.1, not just foo.1
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10:16<SynrG>as i said, those filepaths are relative to the top of your source tree
10:16<daemonkeeper>Unsurprisingly, your manpages file should reference it as debian/afsadm-client.1 then
10:17<yuri->id say ive tried that already
10:17<yuri->lemme see
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10:17<daemonkeeper>You didn't.
10:17<daemonkeeper>Or if you did, you did it wrong :>
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10:18<yuri->it works
10:18<yuri->thx chaps
10:19<Zipl0ck>Looks like following packages: gnome gnome-desktop-environment gnome-user-share force me to also get: apache2.2-bin libapache2-mod-dnssd
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10:19<daemonkeeper>gnome-user-share uses Apache internally.
10:19<daemonkeeper>Deal with it or pick something else if you don't like that :)
10:20<Zipl0ck>daemonkeeper, so apache will be running if I have gnome installed?
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10:20<daemonkeeper>Zipl0ck: Using gnome-user-share it will.
10:20<Zipl0ck>well gnome depends on gnome user share
10:21<Zipl0ck>I want to run nginx on my local machine. So I can not disable it?
10:21<Zipl0ck>daemonkeeper, Does apache have to be running?
10:21<daemonkeeper>It does not run a regular web server. It only uses the Apache core.
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10:22<Zipl0ck>daemonkeeper, oh I see. Thanks for clarification.
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10:24*daemonkeeper knows that exactly, this user-share cruft caused me lots of problems.
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10:31<Serverket>hello, good morning
10:31<Serverket>I have an issue
10:31<Serverket>installing nvidia packages
10:32<Serverket>when I add non-free repositories, after update, It says: duplicated resources
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10:33<Serverket>anyone there?
10:34<devil>Serverket: show your sources.list
10:34<gnugr>Serverket:can you please pastebin your /etc/apt/sources.list?
10:34<devil>oh, good, someone there, i need to run :)
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10:37<gnugr>Serverket:edit /etc/apt/sources.list and add "main contrib non-free" to all 4 lines
10:38<gnugr>Serverket:after that do "apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade"
10:38<Serverket>if I do that, I will keep all main packages plus non-free ones?
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10:39<Serverket>Is it necessary to upgrade the whole system?
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10:39<gnugr>yes to get all non-free packages you need
10:40<abrotman>i think you meant to say to add " contrib non-free" to all four lines?
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10:42<Serverket>so 'contrib non-free'
10:42<gnugr>Serverket:yes, add them next to "main"
10:42<abrotman>you need a space between each
10:44<Serverket> like this_
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10:47<Serverket>Do I have to do this over X or It could be done inside?
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10:48<gnugr>Serverket:what do you mean by that
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10:49<gnugr>Serverket:now you can get your nvidia drivers you want
10:49<Serverket>I mean if I have to do this after deactivating the graphical enviroment
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10:52<gnugr>Serverket:can't you boot into enviroment?
10:52<Serverket>I'm just asking if yes or not
10:52<Serverket>what is better?
10:53<gnugr>what is best for you
10:54<gnugr>Serverket:show us your nvidia cerd "lspci -nn |grep -i VGA"
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10:55<Serverket>01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation G84 [GeForce 8600GT] [10de:0401] (rev a1)
10:55<Serverket>thanks for your help, I was really stuck with
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10:57<gnugr>Serverket:you need nvidia dkms for your card
10:57<Serverket>what's that?
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10:57<gnugr>!tell Serverket -about nvidia dkms
10:58<gnugr>Serverket:read what the bot says
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11:00<Serverket>I thought I just needed to install nvidia-xconfig nvidia-kernel'uname -r' nvidia-glx
11:01<gnugr>Serverket:follow what the bot says
11:01<Serverket>but I{m not using squeeze
11:01<Serverket>what about my pae kernel?
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11:03<gnugr>Serverket:the command line will find your kernel
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11:04<Calinou>why would you use nvidia driver on a 8600gt
11:04<Calinou>free driver is as fast if not faster than the proprietary one
11:04<Calinou>(only reason would be opengl 3.3 compliance, i have yet to see any game that requires it)
11:04<Serverket>Because nouveau works at 10% than nvidia driver does
11:05<Calinou>it's not a fermi/kepler gpu
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11:06<towo`>nouveau on a 8600gt isn't faster then the binary blob
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11:06<towo`>that's a lie
11:06<Serverket>gnugr: Should I delete 2.6 from command line? I'm using 3.2 kernel
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11:07<gnugr>Serverket:yes if you must replace but not where it says 'uname -r'
11:08<Calinou>towo`: then > than, at least spell properly
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11:10<Calinou>depends a lot on games anyway
11:10<Calinou>but have fun installing drivers in debian
11:11<Serverket>I would like use a free video driver but noveau is more a sacrifice than an option.
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11:12<gnugr>Calinou:nouveau should be blacklisted after that
11:13<Serverket>yes, It could be done automatically with nvidia-xconfig
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11:13<Serverket>but update-initframs does
11:13<towo`>nvidia-xconfig has nothing to do with the blacklist
11:13<towo`>and nvidia-xconfig should never be used
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11:14<Serverket>well, so the blog I saw about it could be wrong
11:14<towo`>because it generates an bloated xorg.conf
11:14<towo`>so do what the bot sayes
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11:17<Calinou>you can use nologo...
11:17<Calinou>who cares about bloated xorg.conf
11:18<Calinou>Serverket: also, have even more fun using nvidia driver on uefi systems
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11:25<Serverket>I see why I didn't know about dkms, It's like akmod
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11:32<caos>alguien de chile?
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11:35<Serverket>thanks for helping me guys, It's installing all right now, cya! God bless you.
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11:39<Fernando_Fernandes>Olá bom dia
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11:43<Guest5332>anyone running dota 2
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---Logclosed Sun Nov 11 12:05:02 2012
---Logopened Sun Nov 11 12:05:08 2012
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12:49<terrible96>hi, i want to know how recovery the system
12:50<abrotman>to do what?
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12:52<terrible96>recover the system in the run level 1
12:52<abrotman>yes, why do you need to recover the system?
12:52<abrotman>and what OS is this?
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12:53<terrible96>i think is a file system error or x doesnt start
12:53-!-debdog [] has joined #debian
12:54<terrible96>debian squeeze
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12:56<chealer>terrible96: what is your native language?
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12:57<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
12:57<chealer>terrible96: that channel may be better able to help you for this problem
12:57<terrible96>ok thank
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13:43<ntroofy>a couple weeks ago i was trying hard with coolpix p 7100 to communicate with squeeze - nothing happen, any changes? worthly to try again?
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13:49<ntroofy>as for this from 2008-02-25 the support is declared but i installed gphoto2 and it did not recognized camera so it's fake support on this page
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13:53<ntroofy>windoze see and communicate and detect by name so camera is ok
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13:56<jeremiah1>my Live USB image cannot see my SATA disks for some reason. FAIL.
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14:19<LtL>jeremiah1: maybe the image is bad
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14:28<jeremiah1>LtL: I don't think so, though I may be mistaken
14:28<jeremiah1>It boots anyway.
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14:29<jeremiah1>I think the issue was that my new motherboard comes with IDE configured by default
14:29<jeremiah1>And once I changed the default settings to 'achi' then I can see the SATA disks.
14:29<Eryn_1983_FL>chey peps
14:30<Eryn_1983_FL>i am trying recover grub2 in my lvm+raid situation...
14:30<LtL>jeremiah1: that could do it for sure
14:30<jeremiah1>LtL: :)
14:30<Eryn_1983_FL>i got my resuce enviromen to see my lvm and raid but when i do a grub-install it says it cant find grub-probe..
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14:40<xylron>For some reason `dpkg-reconfigure -a` is not doing what I expect. I was under the impression that running that command should show me all the debconf questions from all installed packages, letting me reconfigure everything. Instead it appears to wait for a while and then return doing nothing. Specifying a specific package like 'debconf' or 'man-db' does show me the questions. What am I...
14:40<xylron>...missing/misunderstanding? This is with a brand new install of Wheezy. Thanks.
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14:56<gnugr>xylron:you might want the command "dpkg --configure -a" instead, the command "dpkg-reconfigure <package>" is for different task
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15:01<xylron>i was under the impression that 'dpkg --configure -a' only configures packages marked in the dpkg database as not yet configured. I wanted to reconfigure all existing packages so as to see any low priority debconf questions not shown by the Debian installer. My understanding is that that is exactly one of the uses of dpkg-reconfigure.
15:03<xylron>I've worked around this by using the 'cnfigure-debian' package to browse the list of configurable packages, and recnfigure them to my liking, but I'm still having trouble understanding why i needed this workaround. I'm pretty sure I just did 'dpkg-reconfigure -a' on previous installations to do this task, but that was years ago, so I may be confusing things.
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15:06<gnugr>xylron:dpkg-reconfigure <package/deamon/etc> is for a specific order to modify again
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15:08<gnugr>xyrlon:"dpkg --configure -a" is for dpkg to check for dependencies/conflicts/etc
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15:28<Eryn_1983_FL>allright i am making a ubuntu usb live disk
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15:30<ompaul>Eryn_1983_FL: because debian live disks don't do it for you?
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15:36<Eryn_1983_FL>no i am just lazy,
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15:39<dpkg>Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <wheezy>. See and ask me about <testing faq> <squeeze->wheezy> <testing security> <moving target> <dda> <apt-listchanges> <apt-listbugs> and <bts>. You should have a sound knowledge of Debian packaging and be prepared for a bumpy ride at times. Don't use it on things that are critical or on servers.
15:39<sifu__>Hello! I installed iceweasel aurora and launched it but the xserver crashed and i received a message "disabling 3D acceleration.." how can i enable it again?
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15:42<chealer>sifu__: which desktop environment do you use?
15:42<dhuan>join #linode
15:42<MrFrood>dhuan: try /join
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15:45<Eryn_1983_FL>ok how in the heck can my usb stick be readonly...
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15:45<Eryn_1983_FL>write protected in window and linux..
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15:47<SynrG>you flipped the read-only switch?
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15:47<Eryn_1983_FL>there isnt one..
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15:48<SynrG>it has U3 and presents as both and ISO (read-only) and hdd media, and you're looking at the ISO version?
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15:48<Eryn_1983_FL>there isnt anything on it, i am not sure what is going on
15:48<SynrG>some stupid secure layer
15:48<sifu__>chealer: gnome/lxde/xfce4/fluxbox
15:48<Eryn_1983_FL>could be
15:49<SynrG>it would be mentioned on the package
15:49<sifu__>chealer: gnome/lxde/xfce4/fluxbox/openbox
15:49<Eryn_1983_FL>i thought they were broekn..
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15:49<SynrG>which model of USB stick?
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15:50<Eryn_1983_FL>by ecention
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15:53<SynrG>Eryn_1983_FL: it does have some secure layer, but not U3. maybe the FAQ at will help?
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15:56<Eryn_1983_FL>faq helps
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16:25<fibreguy>/join #openwireless
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16:34<Serverket>hey again guys
16:35<Serverket>I want to configure my EasyPen i405X
16:35<Serverket>when I plug the tablet it works but there is no pression
16:35<Serverket>I can't draw on gimp
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16:36<Serverket>any solution?
16:36<Serverket>plus: I have cheked entry devices on gimp, same result.
16:36<ikey>Multipart question: Is apt2 still going ahead? And what language have they chosen? Tis all :)
16:36<Serverket>It works like a mouse but I can't draw
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16:38<ikey>(And yes. I could *probably* Google it, but alas, to no avail so far. I'll write one, no good at using one)
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16:41<brunoramos>Hello, I was trying to report a bug with reportbug but apparently my message was not sent... the bug was not created. I tried to find the location of the logs of reportbug in google and I cannot find the location... Could someone point me in the right direction?
16:41<Serverket>anyone here? I need help with EasyPen i405X
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16:44<Serverket>brunoramos: check this
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16:46<Serverket>I can't draw with genius EasyPeni405X, anyone could help?
16:47<themill>brunoramos: did you tell reportbug that you have a working local mail server? or did you tell it to use the debian reportbug mailserver?
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16:48<Guest5349>woops, didnt reset my handle...
16:49<brunoramos>themill, I told him I have a working mailserver... I just found the exim log saying that he is not allowed to send emails to remote domains. I thought I had already changed that sometime ago... maybe when I upgraded reportbug and did another configure , not sure
16:49<Serverket>I updated the whole system but this doesn't work
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16:49<gnugr>Serverket:in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d is your EasyPen in there?
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16:50<Serverket>wrong path
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16:50<Serverket>It's empy
16:50<Serverket>/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d is empty
16:51<LtL>Serverket: /etc/X11/
16:51<brunoramos>themill, my new configuration file has a smtphost line that was not previously there. I'll try without that
16:51<Serverket>/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d empty
16:51<gnugr>Serverket: how your system recognize it (the name?)
16:52<Serverket>If I check on GIMP or Inkscape it says Genius EasyPeni405X which is exactly the right name
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16:53<Serverket>it works like a mouse, but I can't draw with
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16:54<Serverket>also I can open the main menu, but just that, I doesn't open applications or draw
16:55<gnugr>Serverket:can you pastebin "tail -f /var/log/Xorg.0.log" after plugging that device?
16:57<ikey>Hate to be a persistent PITA (It's a Genetic Thing. We called it "Irish") But does anyone know anything about apt2 ?
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16:58<brunoramos>themill, thanks for your help. your question pointed my in the right direction.
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16:59<themill>brunoramos: no worries -- glad to have been of assistance
16:59<gnugr>Serverket:did you read the last 2 lines?
16:59<themill>ikey: somewhere between "dead" and "on hold"
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16:59<themill>ikey: "pining for the fjords"‽
16:59<Serverket>what device file?
17:00<ikey>the-dude, lol seriously? I know there was a Vala plan but obv. that would have "screwed libapt-pkg" (despite the marshalls and header files...) Shame really
17:00<Serverket>what input driver? whyy? I thought It could work fine without driver
17:00<ikey>New projects rock
17:00<gnugr>Serverket:your system needs a driver to be recognized as a pen
17:01<LtL>Serverket: you need to X -configure to use a custom xorg.conf, debian doesn't generate one by default, try
17:01<gnugr>thus it recognize it as a mouse
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17:02<gnugr>Serverket:or you might have to write a xorg.conf.d
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17:05<gnugr>Serverket:save this and figure it out
17:05<Serverket>Ok, you mean that plus the guide you send me right?
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17:07<gnugr>i mean the script to write that wizard.conf
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17:08<Serverket>do you mean /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/70-wizardpen.conf?
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17:09<gnugr>i'm up 2 bed g/night
17:09<Serverket>thanks, I will try, thanks for your time
17:09<Serverket>rest well
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17:22<LtL>gapert: welcome to #debian
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18:18<EmleyMoor>Is it normal for the Scroll Lock key to do nothing (and the light to stay out) in Debian?
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18:20<kayla_>was up
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18:22<EmleyMoor>kayla: Do you need help with Debian?
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18:23<toni>hi guys...i need a quick help on this running an upgrade to ubuntu 11.10.. ive gone past the getting update packages level and its now installing downloaded update packages..can i disconnect from the internet or can i stop here and continue from where i left off later? thanks
18:24<themill>toni: sounds like a question for #ubuntu on
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18:28<aef>hi there, do you know any command which does what I described in here:
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18:30<mandark>Just got a "[2944865.477184] mount.ntfs[32041]: segfault at 7fb49b24c6b0 ip 00007fb49ae5659c sp 00007fffbf11b760 error 4 in[7fb49ae4d000+2a000]" can it be helpful to someone ? (Dunno if I can reproduce, as it was during a rm -rf)...
18:31<themill>aef: sh -c. Or don't use sudo
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18:32<themill>aef: sudo(8) contains examples like this
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18:36<aef>themill: i think you're missing the point somehow if you say I shouldn't use sude. I simply need to be root to write to the file.
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18:38<themill>aef: sure. There are plenty of occasions when sudo isn't as useful as people believe and things involving output redirection frequently fall into that category
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18:39<aef>themill: yeah, but I can't write to the file if I'm not root, which I am not. I can't simply ignore that fact.
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18:39<themill>there are more ways to get root access than sudo
18:41<aef>themill: well, name some
18:41<themill>"su -"
18:42<aef>themill: that helps me how in my situation?
18:43<themill>umm... if you're running commands in a root shell, you don't need to jump through idiotic sudo tee tricks at all, you just redirect to the file you want
18:43<mju>aef: sudo -i
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18:44<themill>sudo is about privilege separation and logging -- logging "tee foobar" isn't particularly useful, so unless you have reasons to not want to run the rest of the command/pipeline as root, then there's zero point in using sudo there.
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18:46<aef>I only run things as root if I really have to. Additionally su doesn't help me at all if i'm in vim and already have edited a lot in a file and need to save that.
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18:47<aef>mju: is that meant as a suggestion based on my initial search for a tee alternative? if that is so, i don't get how that would work
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18:48<mju>aef: No. For su - you would need the root password, I think. For sudo -i you need your user password. It's an alternative to su -.
18:49<aef>mju: yeah ok, I know how to become root and open a shell, that was not my problem at all
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18:51<indio>Hi. How do I know if I need to reboot my system after an update of packages?
18:51<themill>aef: sponge(1) from moreutils would do this for you. (not designed for that purpose, but it will work)
18:51<themill>dpkg: tell indio about reboot required
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18:54<aef>themill: sponge can't append. apart of being a real memory sucker if you have a lot of data going through that pipe
18:54<themill>aef: then don't do that.
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18:55<themill>aef: your use case was "what if I'm in vim" well then you're going to overwrite the entire file. Stop moving the goal posts all the time.
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18:55<aef>themill: my goal was to find a command which does exactly the same as tee except for putting anything to STDOUT from the beginning.
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18:57<themill>«echo -e "#!/bin/sh\ntee "$@" >/dev/null" > ~/bin/lazytee» problem solved...
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18:58<aef>themill: and this isn't about finding a shitty workaround either, i'm just looking to find a more comfortable way to do a thing I have to do a lot. and obviously the tool i'm looking for doesn't exist or is quite unkown
18:59<themill>perhaps being less vague about what "a thing" is would help. This isn't a common thing to need to do
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19:00<aef>themill: i actually know of at least 10 people using tee as I do, partially being annoyed by unneccessary output, but too lazy to lookout for a solution
19:01<themill>so we're back at "don't use sudo" then. or use sh -c as sudo(8) describes. Anyway, I've now given you 4 different ways of doing this all of which you don't like, so feel free to write your own tool
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19:02<aef>themill: you actually haven't given me anything useful to solve my problem, but it seems you can't shut up either.
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19:03<themill>aef: right. I've told you exactly how to solve this in 4 different ways and none of them are useful. Glad we've established that. HAND.
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19:10<nadir>I can't think of an example where i want to run the command as user, tee as root and need to safe the result in a file only writeable by root
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19:11<nadir>to put it different: i would like to know what "a thing" is too.
19:12<themill>nadir: "I started editing /etc/$something as my normal user and now need to write it out as root" is common enough. Downloading stuff as a non-privileged user and then saving the results in a root-writeable location is feasible too.
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19:13<nadir>well: i spoke of tee
19:13<nadir>if i download as user i cp it as root to the place where i want it.
19:14<nadir>i don't run into the first example
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19:15<nadir>might be i completely misunderstand, and that is why i asked for a "real" example.
19:15<themill>«wget -0- http://..../foo | sudo tee /usr/share/» is common enough without using tempfiles. You'll find places like the ubuntu wiki full of "sudo tee" because of their policy decision that everything should be done via sudo and thus you need to jump through hoops to get things done.
19:16<danijoo>and why not wget it to /home/normal-user && sudo mv /etc/foo ?
19:17<nadir>probably cause a pipe plus tee looks geekie. I've seen quite some examples at the (German) Ubuntu wiki where it is superfluos.
19:18<nadir>themill: well: ok, i understand the wget | tee . That might be a reason.
19:18<themill>sometimes it reduces the need for tempfiles which makes the sequence safer
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19:19<aef>nadir: another example would be to dump a postgresql database over socket ident auth and writing it to a file which is not accessible to the user which has the permission to authenticate to the database via ident.
19:19<nadir>got you. thanks
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19:19<nadir>aef: which is the file you want to write too?
19:21<aef>nadir: well some database dump file, preferably one that is not world readable or in a folder which lets no one in.
19:22<nadir>i see no problem to create such a folder in the users home.
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19:24<aef>nadir: maybe the filesystems in which your personal user can write in are not big enough to write the whole dump to.
19:24<aef>nadir: or the wget download, respectively
19:25<nadir>If i had such questions i would say what i want, not the solution i think is the right one with an abstract example. That was my point
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19:26<nadir>If you must dump a database and then safe it as root: good.
19:26<themill>+1 to concrete questions rather than abstract ones.
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19:47<tpo>Hello everyone I need help configuring a wired network on squeeze with xfce4 on an acer aspire E1 laptop
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19:48<tpo>Hello everyone I need help configuring a wired network on squeeze with xfce4 on an acer aspire E1 laptop
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19:53<tpo>Hello everyone I need help configuring a wired network on squeeze with xfce4 on an acer aspire E1 laptop
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20:02<danijoo>tpo: whats the problem?
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20:05<tpo>danijoo I sent you something; I'm using the XChat client... how do I direct a message to you only?
20:06<danijoo>i got it ;)
20:06<danijoo>but you can write it here, too. so everyone here can help if they have an idea
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20:07<tpo>hehe good idea.. I can't connect to a wired network... the thing is: i just bought a laptop and installed squeeze on it; the wireless card is activated with the keys fn+f3, but I can't do it... and I can't connect to a wired network either; wicd doesn't ask for the network password
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20:07<danijoo>why should it ask for a password when its a wired interface?
20:07<danijoo>if should just connect u when you plug it in and press connect, dont it?
20:08<tpo>well I guess... but it doesnt
20:08<tpo>wcid says it cannot get an IP address
20:08<tpo>but it doesn't provide any other information
20:08<danijoo>dhcp server running on the network?
20:09<danijoo>a router which passes an ip to it for example?
20:09<tpo>I don't know... how do I check that?
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20:09<danijoo>if u use another device at your network, do it automatically get an ip?
20:09<tpo>yes it does... is that DHCP?
20:10<danijoo>yep. the dhcp server is the device which says who gets which ip
20:10<danijoo>okay. so if you open the wicd-client, does the wired interface show up there?
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20:11<danijoo>okay. klick on properties
20:12<danijoo>is any box checked?
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20:13<danijoo>if "use static ips" is checked, uncheck and try again
20:13<tpo>it's not
20:13<tpo>nothing is checked actually... what should there be on the field 'DHCP Hostname'?
20:14<tpo>because my computer's name is in that box...
20:14<danijoo>it doesnt matter whats in there as long as it isnt checked.
20:14<tpo>it's not
20:14<danijoo>it should search for the server by its own
20:15<tpo>wait there's something odd here: I typed ifconfig again and there are two listings of pan0 (the ethernet interface)
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20:16<danijoo>please post the output of ifconfig on pastebin
20:16<tpo>one says what it should say (that is the mac address and what-not) and the other one has less info on it but says avahi at the beginning
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20:18<tpo>that's going to take a while, please wait...
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20:19<jherman>Is there a release date for gnome 3.6 in debian?
20:19<danijoo>uhm.. wait. pan0 sounds more to be a bluetooth device than your wireless..
20:20<tpo>here it is:
20:20<tpo>well it says ethernet... it's not the wireless it's the ethernet card
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20:22<danijoo>yeah but ethernet devices are usually named ethX
20:22<xylron>all bluetooth pan devices would say ethernet.
20:22<danijoo>panX usually stands for buetooth emulated ethernets
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20:22<tpo>so not only I don't have a wireless, I can't access my ethernet either XD
20:22<danijoo>so your ethernet has no driver or is just not up ;)
20:22<danijoo>indeed :)
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20:23<tpo>any suggestions??
20:23<xylron>what brand is your network card?
20:23<danijoo>you can try "ifconfig eth0 up" to bring it up.
20:24<tpo>wait, I even have the driver that's supposed to work
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20:24<xylron>hmm.. I'd be very surprised if the atheros driver were not running by default... those are damned common.
20:24<tpo>No such device
20:24<_Brett_>most popular linux distro?
20:25<danijoo>i think the most popular is ubuntu atm..
20:25<tpo>yeah it probably is... although mint is on the ries
20:26<_Brett_>this is the biggest channel on oftc
20:26<tpo>@danijoo my card is an atheros ar5b125 and it's supposed to run under the atl1c driver
20:26<danijoo>so channelsize is the new measurement for popularity? ^^
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20:27<danijoo>tpo: then you can try to modprode that: sudo modprobe atl1c
20:27<tpo>now, here's something: when I was installing I couldn't connect either, so I select the atl1c driver from the list but didn't connect anyway
20:27<_Brett_>i've installed both of those. i've never tried debian
20:27<danijoo>and then again ifconfig eth0 up
20:27<tpo>nothing happens
20:27<tpo>i typed modprobe atl1c
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20:28<tpo>then ifconfig -a but no eth0 shows up
20:29<tpo>same result with 'modprobe ath9k', which is supposed to be the module for my wireless
20:30<xylron>@tpo: perhaps it is time to start lower level debugging, using tools like 'lspci' to verify the hardware can been seen by the kernel in the first pace.
20:30<danijoo>do u have wireless-tools insalled for the wireless device?
20:30<danijoo>_Brett_: there isnt a big difference at all, i think ;)
20:30<tpo>@xylron the device is recognized, it is listed as an Atheros card when I type lspci
20:31<tpo>@danijoo Let me check
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20:32<tpo>It appears on aptitude (I don't have synaptic)
20:32<tpo>how can I know if it's installed?
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20:35<tpo>any suggestions? I'm quite desperate now...
20:36<danijoo>did u have the wireless-tools package installed for the wireless device?
20:36<xylron>@tpo: a quick google search showed this thread for getting the wired-ethernet-card it running on ubuntu by way of the wireless-compat (yes, using wireless-compat to get an updated wired-eth driver):
20:36<xylron>perhaps that would also work under debian?
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20:36<tpo>let's check it out
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20:38<tpo>so what should I do? download the package and compile?
20:39<danijoo><.< that will be fun
20:39<xylron>That's what the thread recomended. Once you get the ethernet running you can probably get an up-to-date kernel with said driver pre-compiled
20:39<danijoo>without internet connection
20:40<danijoo>you first need to install the build-essential from the debian source
20:40<xylron>that method does depnd on being able to transfer the tarball via usb stick or similar.
20:40<danijoo>thann download the latest compat-wireless and install it as described in the compat-wireless readme
20:41<tpo>uhmmm... okay, what is build-essential?
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20:41<dpkg><tcsetattr> build-essential contains all of the ... um ... essential stuff. For building.
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20:42<danijoo>its a package whith all tools in it you need to compile the compat wireless driver
20:42<danijoo>you usually install it by apt-get install build-essential. but that needs an internet connection
20:43<tpo>yeah, exactly what I don't have ehehe
20:43<xylron>Of course that post is over 2 years old, so I'd be somewhat surprised if it were still needed.
20:43<tpo>so... how do I install it?
20:43<danijoo>maybe its provided with the debian dvd/cd
20:44<danijoo>depends on which cd you have (the dvd version should include it, i think)
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20:44<danijoo>you can also simply download it and use an usb stick
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20:44<danijoo>which debian do u use? squeeze or wheezy?
20:46<danijoo>maybe thats the reason why your driver isnt included. ;)
20:46<tpo>well I can download the DVD on this computer, that's not a problem... now, is the fact that I'm using the amd64 kernel of any relevance here?
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20:46<danijoo>it shouldnt
20:46<danijoo>but you dont need the whole dvd
20:46<danijoo>give me a sec to search the link
20:46<tpo>so you recommend wheezy? okay, so it's xfce4 then (I hate gnome 3)
20:47<xylron>as for the wifi not working though, perhaps he is merely missing the non-free firmware-atheros package? that might be eaiser to sideload than build-essentials, since build-essetials is efftively a virtual package (it exists mostly fr its dependencies).
20:47<tpo>okay, while we're on the subject: what's with these 16 or so DVD iso files at the debian site? Is that the whole system??
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20:48<danijoo>the dvds contain all available package. in debian you can download a software for nearly everything with an installation manager over the internet. that dvds include all of that packages
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20:49<danijoo>and the difference between squeeze and wheezy: squeeze is the stable debian. but the version of wheezy packages are newer (so more drivers are included for example).
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20:49<danijoo>its wheezy for testing, and squeeze for stable. a driver is only provided by stable if there arent any bugs found while "testing"
20:50<danijoo>xylron: yeah that should be easier than getting build-essential, you're right
20:51<danijoo>and the wificard should work out of the box with the by xylron mentioned packages
20:51<tpo>@xylron: so I download the non-free firmware-atheros?
20:51<tpo>there are supposed to be some .deb for those in the repos, right?
20:52<danijoo>it should be called firmware-atheros
20:52<tpo>I get an error from the driver-select script: "Must run from the compat-drivers top level directory". What does that mean?
20:52<danijoo>tpo: are u talking out compat-wireless?
20:52<xylron>perhaps, but maybe not, according to the firmware should not be neededf for the ath9k driver
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20:53<tpo>@danijoo: yes, I was trying that just now, why?
20:53<xylron>I'm starting to think my comments may be causing more confusion than help.
20:53<tpo>@xylron: so what do I do then? I still think the problem is that I can't turn the device on because of the damn hotkeys
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20:53<danijoo>we should focus on one card first...
20:53<danijoo>and wifi seems to be easier atm...
20:54<tpo>@xylron: it's okay mate, I know how that is... I still appreciate your comments a lot thoug ;)
20:54<tpo>okay, so I'm at
20:54<tpo>is that the package we are discussing right now??
20:54<danijoo>yep. you need that package (the 64 bit version if u are on 64 bit)
20:54<danijoo>and maybee the wireless-tools package, too
20:55<tpo>uhmm... I don't see a link to a .deb
20:55<danijoo>copy them both on your debian system and install them via dpkg -i packagename
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20:56<danijoo>on the site you posted: unter download firmware-atheros
20:56<danijoo>click on the "all" link
20:56<danijoo>unter architecure
20:56<danijoo>and then select any server
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20:57<tpo>right!! thanks @danijoo
20:58<tpo>so I got those packages, let me see if they do the trick... is rebooting necessary?
20:58<danijoo>im not sure
20:58<danijoo>did u get wireless-tools, too?
20:58<danijoo>and installed both?
20:58<tpo>both wireless-tools and firmware-atheros
20:58<tpo>not yet, I'm copying them to a usb stick
20:59<danijoo>okay. after copying type dpkg -i packetname.deb to install
20:59<danijoo>im not sure about rebooting but i recommend it
20:59<danijoo>if we're lucky the wireless device will show up in wicd after reboot
21:00<tpo>okay which one should I install first?
21:00<tpo>or it doesn't matter?
21:00<danijoo>doesn't matter i think
21:01<tpo>okay, they're installed... let me just reboot
21:01<danijoo>youll get an error message if it does :p
21:01<tpo>good point
21:01<tpo>but I didn't
21:01<tpo>perhaps I just got lucky or perhaps it really doesn't matter...
21:01<tpo>okay, it's rebooting...
21:02<tpo>well, bad news: ifconfig returns lo and pan0 only
21:03<tpo>now, I typed "modprobe ath9k" just in case and now there are two entries for pan0 in ifconfig... this is really odd
21:03<danijoo>pan0 is the bluetooth of your laptop
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21:04<danijoo>does anythin show up if you type iwconfig?
21:04<tpo>as far as I remember that laptop doesn't have a bluetooth
21:04<danijoo>if seems to have ;)
21:04<tpo>yes: both interfaces with an "no wireless extension" appended
21:04<tpo>@danijoo: wohoo!! bluetooth XD
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21:05<tpo>okay, I'll download a testing image and see what happens... good thing I don't have any data on that laptop yet
21:05<danijoo>thats weird
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21:06<danijoo>maybe thats the best solution..
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21:07<tpo>uhm... where do I download it from? XD
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21:08<danijoo>the same source you got the squeeze image from :p
21:08<tpo>I don't see it...
21:08<tpo>they're all 6.0.5
21:08<xylron>digging into it deeper, I'm pretty sure your wireless chip is not supported in squeeze kernels, only in wheezy ones, so a testing install is a good idea.
21:08<xylron>wheezy images are at
21:09<tpo>@xylron thanks... now, I'm in this directory:
21:10<tpo>the thing is I don't have a CD-RW, so I must download this ones right?
21:10<danijoo>how do u want to install then?
21:10<danijoo>via live-usb?
21:11<tpo>@danijoo: that'd be great, to see if the system can recognize my wlan ;D
21:12<danijoo>never did that before but i think you can use the normal cd image and make a bootable usb stick with that
21:12<danijoo>you could use unetbootin for that:
21:13<danijoo>its a programm where you can select debian wheezy and it automatically downloads the right image and create a bootable usb
21:14<blast007>I don't think unetbootin is recommended
21:15<sney>unetbootin isn't recommended, yeah
21:15<danijoo>but it works well for usb-bootables
21:15<blast007>depending on the image, I think you can just 'dd' it to the USB stick
21:15<sney>it's completely unnecessary for usb-bootables. all debian netinstall and CD1 images can be directly written to the usb stick
21:15<sney>with dd, cat, or win32-di depending on your platform
21:17<tpo>@sney I did that for my current image
21:17<danijoo>whats the difference between using unetbootin and dd it to the device? i think unetbootin does the same ..
21:17<tpo>@sney it works but then the usb stick is not recognised properly
21:17<danijoo>if u know the dd way, than do it tpo.
21:17<danijoo>its probably the 'safest'
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21:18<danijoo>although not the easiest in my opinion
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21:18<tpo>@danijoo I will, I just want to know what you think... you all very likely know more than I do
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21:19<danijoo>tpo: if you know the way sney mentioned than do it. the unetbootin way is just a bit easier because it does all the steps for you
21:21<tpo>@danijoo well unetbootin doesn't recognise my usb stick so I'll do it the other way XD
21:21<danijoo>okay ;)
21:21<danijoo>thats the better way, anyway :p
21:21<tpo>thanks a lot mates!! I'll be around during the instalation to report
21:22<danijoo>see you
21:23<tpo>well while we're here: what's a good way of learning debian from scratch? that's what I want this laptop for, now that I bought (and hopefully can work with) a new one...
21:24<danijoo>using it : >
21:25<tpo>hehe okay I'll rephrase: using debian without a desktop environment... I mean, are there any tutorials on the web or so?
21:25<danijoo>i think there are a lot. just google for linux, and not debian
21:26<tpo>right! good point
21:27<danijoo>you are not german, are yoU?
21:27<tpo>No, I'm not... why?
21:27<danijoo>i have some good links, but they are in german :p
21:28<tpo>oh pass them over, I can read german... well, kind of...
21:28<danijoo>this is a source i often use:
21:29<danijoo>but im sure there are some better english ones on the net. have plenty of linux books for example
21:30<ectospasm>using Debian without a desktop environment can mean many things. Do you mean no GUI/X Windows? Or do you mean a lightweight/tiling window manager (i3wm, awesome, XMonad)
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21:30<danijoo>bratwurst? ^.^
21:30<tpo>@ectoplasm: I meant no x server :) I really like this thing and I want to learn as much as I can about it :D
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21:34<xylron>I ran a debian instal ithout an x server for a few years a while back, but that was in a virtual machine, and technically I did have X available on my Windows host for the rare times I wanted a GUI. I'm having a it more trouble picturing such a setup on a laptop though. The VM I'm currently setting up is running GNOME, but I'll mostly be using gnome-terminal windows.
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21:37<ectospasm>tpo: depending on how advanced you already are, I'd recommend Learning UNIX published by O'Reilly
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21:37<ectospasm>that's the bare basics
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21:38<ectospasm> can get Mplayer working without an X server, VLC too
21:38<xylron>My first impressions of Gnome 3.4: UGH! it feels like it is combining the worst of Windows 7 (gratuitous translucency) with the worst of windows 8 (a full screen app picker), with heavy OS X influences.
21:39<tpo>@xylron agreed! That's why I changed to xfce.
21:39<danijoo>totally agree too.
21:40<danijoo>gnome 3.4 was the moment when i started to use tiling window managers
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21:43<ectospasm>I've been using XMonad for over a year
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21:43<ectospasm>for a long time I used it with GNOME 2, then GNOME 3 Classic (which they're now dropping)
21:44<danijoo>i really fell in love with awesome wm
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21:44<ectospasm>I loathed awesome. The build I was using was so buggy/crashy I couldn't use it.
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21:44<ectospasm>Tried XMonad, got hooked
21:45<danijoo>but im still running some gnome modules for the settings
21:45<danijoo>(gnome-screensaver and gnome-settings-daemon)
21:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 494] by debhelper
21:48<danijoo>xMonad was an option for me, too. but i was looking for an alternativ i dont have to learn a new language for (dont know about haskell)
21:48<ectospasm>danijoo: did you already know lua going into awesome?
21:48<danijoo>i knew some basics
21:49<ectospasm>well... iirc lua is mostly procedural, so it was far easier than Haskell (a functional language)
21:49<ectospasm>Functional languages take a totally different mode of thinking
21:50<ectospasm>...and unfortunately I don't code XMonad config/Haskell on a daily basis, so I have to struggle every time I go to tweak it
21:50<ectospasm>that being said, I've put so much effort into my XMonad config I just can't switch, it works so well.
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21:52<danijoo>so haskell is a bit more like python than lua, hm?
21:52<ectospasm>danijoo: not even close
21:52<danijoo>haha okay
21:52<ectospasm>Python is still procedural for the most part
21:52<ectospasm>The only thing I know Haskell has in relation to Python is a maddening whitespace/indentation requirement
21:53<danijoo>okay. i just looked at the haskell syntax. didnt understand a word
21:53-!-ibm [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:53<ectospasm>...but there are whole course, nay, doctoral dissertations which compare and contrast functional vs. procedural/iterative vs. logical languages
21:54<ectospasm>danijoo: I'll give you that, it is pretty opaque
21:54<danijoo>thats why i started with awesome. lua was just.. looking at it - reading 2 pages about the syntax, and i was done
21:54<ectospasm>they do crazy things with operators
21:54<ectospasm>...XMonad has not crashed on me once... could not say the same for awesome
21:55<danijoo>im not using it for a long time now. but awesome didnt crash for me until know, too.
21:56<ectospasm>I only used it for two weeks
21:56<tpo>Pardon my ignorance but what is lua?
21:56<danijoo>im still in the "lets see what i can do with it phase"
21:56<danijoo>lua is a programming language
21:56<ectospasm>...crashed almost every time I right-clicked an empty area of the desktop to pull up a context menu
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21:57<danijoo>when did you use it?
21:57<danijoo>maybe its a bit stabler now.
21:57<ectospasm>about a year and a half ago
21:59<danijoo>i think it changed a lot since then. but i totally understand why you stick to xmonoad
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21:59<ectospasm>I call it sunk costs
22:00<tpo>so what does lua do exactly? I want to learn some programming to, it might be useful for what I do... I'm just very stupid when it comes to syntax and debugging and stuff like that
22:00<ectospasm>tpo: lua is more of a scripting language, IIRC... interpreted rather than compiled
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22:01<tpo>@ectopasm... and what does that mean??
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22:01<ectospasm>tpo: interpreted means that there's a program -- an interpreter -- that reads the program/script line by line and executes it.
22:02<engla>lua is compiled though and not run line by line either
22:03<engla>lua is compiled to bytecode and then exectued on the lua vm
22:03<tpo>so... how does that help? I don't get it... isn't it better not to have some other program do the job?
22:04<ectospasm>...depending on the interpreter it may read the entire program before interpreting it
22:04<ectospasm>Perl does that
22:04<ectospasm>Python too, I think
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22:04<danijoo>tpo: its just a different kind of solving a problem
22:04<ectospasm>compiling takes the program and turns it into machine code
22:04<danijoo>interpreted means you can write the file and pass it to another computer
22:05-!-hector [] has quit []
22:05<danijoo>but to run it there you need the right interpreter on it
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22:05<tpo>okay... so I guess an "interpreted" language should be a little easier, right?
22:06<engla>interpreted or not does not make a difference
22:06<danijoo>the difference is how it is executed
22:06<engla>ectospasm is confused
22:06<danijoo>to run a program, you have to write the code, translate it to maschine-speak (00100010101110) and than run that binary code
22:07<engla>lua is a simple language and is made to be simple to embed into an application. so it's an extension language that makes it easy to configure or extend applications
22:07<danijoo>interpreted means that translation is done in the moment u ran the programm
22:07<engla>danijoo: lua is normally compiled to bytecode, not machine code
22:07<danijoo>compiled means u write it, translate it once
22:07<danijoo>and than run the translated code
22:07<danijoo>yeah or bytecode engla.
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22:08<danijoo>i just want to explan the difference between compilation and interpretation
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22:12<tpo>brb lunch
22:12<ectospasm>engla: I'm not confused. There's a difference between compiled and interpreted, but not in writing the source
22:13<engla>sure, it's a matter of implementation
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22:13<ectospasm>engla: and performance
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22:20<fix>network-manager or something is causing my ath9250 card to drop wireless at random
22:20<fix>so I manually set a pre-up wpa_supplicant command
22:20<fix>now my system just sits there during boot after launching the wpa_supplicant
22:21<fix>Im trying "recovery mode" from grub but the same thing happens
22:21<fix>now I cant boot into my box to change it back
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22:22<danijoo>fix: what about using a live CD ?
22:22<Eryn_1983_FL>hey peeps
22:22<babilen>fix: chroot into the system from a live cd or from the installer (see "/msg dpkg fixmbr" for an example (without the grub part))
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22:22<Eryn_1983_FL>can somebody help me out?>
22:22<fix>I dont need to fix my mbr
22:22<fix>I just need to get in and edit my network/interfaces file
22:22<Eryn_1983_FL>i am using lvm and raid on my linux box, and i cant get grub to reinstall.
22:22<Eryn_1983_FL>what tools do i need to fix it?
22:22<fix>I also am using a raid0 and booting grub from it
22:23<Eryn_1983_FL>ive tried doing grub=install fron the debian cd but it just reaking fails..
22:23<fix>did u make a seperate partition for the /boot ?
22:23<Eryn_1983_FL>i dont think so
22:23<fix>or are you using a hardware raid controller?
22:23<Eryn_1983_FL>there is lvm root though
22:23<Eryn_1983_FL>software raid
22:23<fix>with softraid u need a seperate /boot partition for grub to install on
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22:23<danijoo>fix: you can change the file after mounting the filesystem from your live cd. thats the easiest way
22:23<fix>just create a standlone 500mb partition
22:23<Eryn_1983_FL>let me loo whats there
22:23<fix>and set it as /boot
22:24<fix>sure, well, it doesnt quite need that much
22:24<danijoo>250 should be enough for /boot
22:24<babilen>fix: you can also try booting into single user mode (add "single" at the end of the kernel line in the grub menu ("e" for editing)) -- /me would still just boot a live cd, mount your root partition (or /etc) and edit /e/n/i
22:24<fix>yeah hes right
22:24<tpo>uhm... sorry to interrupt, but my usb with the iso in it doesn't boot
22:24<Eryn_1983_FL>no grub menu
22:24<fix>yeah coz grub isnt installed on a /boot partition
22:25<fix>grub doesnt know what to do with softraid arrays
22:25<danijoo>so you have to reinstall Grub on a /boot partition or to mbr Eryn_1983_FL
22:25<Eryn_1983_FL>booting debian disc now
22:25<fix>yeah I just did my first softraid system last week
22:25<fix>I had to do multiple installs
22:25<fix>then I figured out the trick of just creating a small partition mounted as /boot during the install
22:26<Eryn_1983_FL>does it matter what drive i use?
22:26<fix>then BAM success
22:26<fix>doesnt matter, grub will find it during the install
22:26<fix>as long as its mounted as /boot
22:27<babilen>tpo: How did you create it?
22:27<fix>also make sure whatever disk its on your bios is configured to boot to that disk
22:27<tpo>unetbootin first
22:28<tpo>then isohybrid and cat
22:28<tpo>now I isohybrid and dd
22:28<danijoo>have to go now. its late here in westeurope. bye : >
22:29<babilen>tpo: Which iso did you use and can you boot from the (non unetbootin which is known to be shite) stick on other computers? You can always try booting from a CD if everything else fails.
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22:30<babilen>tpo: And what do you mean by isohybrid? I assumed that you meant that you just copied the image to the stick, but I am not entirely sure that this is the correct interpretation
22:30<tpo>@babilen I don't have a cd-rw on this computer mate, that's why I'm using unetbootin
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22:30<tpo>well, I followed the instructions here: but with the wheezy iso image
22:30<babilen>tpo: Well, we've heard it a couple of times that unetbootin doesn't work. I take it that you've seen "/msg dpkg usb install"
22:30<babilen>fix: Keep it in the channel please
22:31<tpo>downloaded from here
22:31<tpo>@babilen what's with /msg dpkg usb install? what would I be looking for there?
22:32<babilen>tpo: Hmm, you are not the first to repot that (s)he can't boot from USB devices with that image on there. You might want to try a different image or check the functionality on different computers.
22:33<sney>fwiw, I used that very iso for a usb install today
22:33<Eryn_1983_FL>do i need to set the mount point?
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22:33<tpo>@babilen okay, I'll reboot this one after I dd the iso image I have again...
22:33<babilen>tpo: A link to official documentation on how to create a bootable usb stick. It essentially boils down to "cat debian.iso > /dev/sdX ; sync" where /dev/sdX is the block device of your usb stick (e.g. /dev/sdc)
22:33-!-ibm [] has joined #debian
22:34<babilen>tpo: and this isn't twatter -- you don't need the @
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22:34<tpo>lol twatter that's how I usually call it...
22:35<tpo>well, let's see if cat does the job without the isohybrid
22:35<babilen>tpo: And cat/cp are better options than dd as they adjust the blocksize during copying dynamically -- If you want to use dd use (at least) "bs=1m" while copying. I would also recommend to look into dc3dd for extra dd pleasure if you like dd
22:35<babilen>tpo: What do you mean by "isohybrid" ?
22:36-!-cybersphinx_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:36<tpo>it's a command from syslinux; I'm not really sure what it does, but on the Tails site they recommended it being used.
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22:37<babilen>!tell tpo about hybrid images
22:37<tpo>yes, please do! :D
22:38<babilen>tpo: Seriously, read the installation guide and realise that you can just copy the image you downloaded *directly* to the stick. (literally "cat debian.iso > /dev/sdX ; sync" (adjust the /dev/sdX to the actual device))
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22:38<fix>ok so Im in busybox, how does that help me edit my /etc/network/interfaces file if nothings mounted
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22:38<babilen>fix: what are you referring to exactly?
22:39<tpo>babilen: okay, thanks mate... take it easy :)
22:39<babilen>!tell fix -about fixmbr
22:39<fix>well I modified my /etc/network/interfaces with a post-up wpa_supplicant command, because network-manager keeps dropping my wifi , and now when I boot it does the wpa_supplicant and just sits there, and doesnt finish booting
22:39<fix>so, I need to get it to boot so I can fix that
22:39<fix>fixing the mbr isnt the issue
22:39<babilen>fix: Please follow the chroot instructions in the "fixmbr" factoid (but not the grub commands as I pointed out earlier) ... make whatever changes you want ot make to /e/n/i and reboot
22:39<fix>I need to get that file edited
22:40<Eryn_1983_FL>keeps freaking failing unable to install gru "hd0,1"
22:40<fix>how is fixing the mbr going to address the issue?
22:40<Eryn_1983_FL>with () around it wth
22:40<Eryn_1983_FL>why wont it work?
22:40<Eryn_1983_FL>i just mad ea brand spanking new 600mb partition
22:40<fix>fixing the mbr isnt the issue, I need to edit /etc/network/interfaces to fix the problem
22:40<babilen>fix: I am *not* having the bot tell you about the fixmbr factoid because I actually want you to fix the mbr, but because it contains chroot instructions. Did you even read the factoid (I mentioned it twice already and you keep saying that you don't want to fix your mbr)
22:40<fix>yeah I read what you said
22:41<fix>and doing e and appending grub with single did nothing
22:41<fix>still hangs
22:41<fix>perhaps I dont understand what you mean
22:41<Eryn_1983_FL>ok i see the logs for it, it says can't execure grub-install no such file or diectory
22:41<babilen>fix: My first (and working) suggestion was to chroot into the system and make whatever changes you want to do. The "fixmbr" factoid contains instructions on how to do that.
22:42<fix>well I have a busy box shell open from the recovery disk
22:42<fix>cant I just mount the fs this way and edit?
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22:42<babilen>fix: So: Follow the "fixmbr" factoid up to "update-grub" and make that "editor /etc/network/interfaces" instead
22:42<fix>what are you talking about
22:43<dpkg>To reinstall <GRUB> simply boot to your Debian install disk, live CD or whatever else you have, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), then mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext2 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc), then chroot into it (chroot /target) and run "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". Also ask me about <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
22:43<fix>what factoid, what fixmbr
22:43<fix>I dont need to reinstall grub
22:43<babilen>fix: dpkg sent you ^^^^ and I mentioned "/msg dpkg fixmbr" half an hour ago
22:43<babilen>fix: Please re-read what I said
22:43<fix>yeah it told me how to reinstall grub
22:44<fix>I just need the mount part
22:44<Eryn_1983_FL>ok i a dling super grub i am at a loss
22:44<fix>yeah Ill try to do that from busybox
22:44-!-ring1 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:44<babilen>fix: It did more than that -- remove "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever" from that factoid and tell me what it does until then. Then re-read what I've been saying. Then think. Then do what I suggested. :)
22:44<fix>thanks man
22:45<fix>i got the file open
22:45<fix>ok question I need to fix this, how can I make wpa_supplicant run on bootup without hanging the boot process
22:45<fix>auto wlan1
22:45<fix>iface wlan1 inet dhcp
22:45<babilen>fix: What are you actually trying to do? Why are you doing that and what has your approach been so far?
22:45<fix>post-up wpa_supplicant
22:45<fix>and I did the proper wpa_supplicant commands
22:46<fix>oh yeah I wouldnt want to do wpa_supplicant before the iface is up, do I?
22:46<babilen>fix: Could you paste relevant information to and elaborate a bit more on your problem. It looks as if you have problems with your wireless adaptor so please include the output of "lspci -nn|grep -i network" too
22:46<fix>post-up, does that meant execute after the iface is up?
22:46<fix>No I cant, because that box isnt online
22:47<fix>Well heres the reason for my insanity
22:47<fix>ok, I have an ath9250 wireless card and network-manager keeps dropping the connection
22:47<babilen>fix: The standard way to configure wpa-supplicant in /etc/network/interfaces is the "managed mode" detailed in /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/README.Debian.gz -- But please start from the beginning.
22:47<fix>so I figured I would remove network manager and try manually setting the wpa_supplicant in my network/interfaces file
22:47<babilen>fix: What is the output of "lspci -nn|grep -i network" ?
22:48<babilen>fix: The "managed mode" is also discussed in btw
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22:48<fix>gimme a sec
22:48<fix>im rebooting
22:49<babilen>fix: Your problems might very well be due to problems with your hardware though. I don't necessarily mean that your hardware is broken, but that support for it is broken. I've seen reports about atheros cards that lose connection, but I need more information to investigate that.
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22:51<babilen>fix: I am referring to -- Please also let me know which kernel and Debian version you use. Insofar I am assuming (by default) that you are running Squeeze with 2.6.32
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22:54<fix>I allready replaced the wifi card
22:55-!-Guest5363 [] has quit []
22:55<fix>I replaced the Ath9835 or w/e it was with an Ath9250 I bought
22:55<fix>hoping that would fix the problem
22:55<fix>and it did, for a week
22:55<fix>then BAM, this crap began happening again
22:55<fix>upgraded to bpo kernel 3.2-0-0 and wireelss tools from bpo
22:55<fix>same shit, only worse now
22:56<fix>my user is asking me to reinstall windows 7
22:56<fix>and frankly, this is embaressing
22:56<fix>not to mention EXTREMLY annoying
22:56<fix>its just wifi
22:56<babilen>fix: May I see the lspci output now?
22:56<fix>Ill hook at cat5 into
22:57<babilen>You can also just give me the pciid id (alphanumerical identifier at the end)
22:57<fix>sec, ima ssh in and get the information, thank you so much
22:58<babilen>fix: You should be aware that I'll head off soon (given that I am on UTC that is not that surprising though)
22:58<fix>02:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Atheros Communications Inc. AR9285 Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express) [168c:002b] (rev 01)
22:59<fix>its in an acer corei3 laptop
22:59<fix>and the bios is horrible, no control of ACPI at all
23:00<fix>Im running squeeze with bpo kernel 3.2.0-0
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23:00<fix>Ive heard that these issues have recently been fixed in kernel 3.6.x series
23:00<fix>within the last 30 days
23:00<fix>considering rolling my own, which usually ends in disaster
23:01<sney>!kernel handbook
23:01<dpkg>The Debian Linux Kernel Handbook ( , packaged as debian-kernel-handbook since Wheezy) serves as a single access point to all kernel-related documentation. See chapter 4.2 to rebuild official Debian kernel packages, see chapter 4.5 to build a custom kernel from Debian kernel source.
23:01<fix>maybe I can temporarily add testing to my sources to get a newer kernel
23:01<sney>no, don't mix testing and stable
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23:01<babilen>Ok, so you want a 3.6.0 kernel -- It is currently in experimental and I would be surprised if you couldn't just download and install. (*no* guarantee here though) -- I am referring to the 3.6-trunk package
23:01<fix>compiling a kernel isnt that hard, but it never boots for me
23:01<sney>using the kernel handbook to build a kernel from upstream or wherever the Debian Way (tm) is a pretty safe bet, if somewhat time consuming
23:02<sney>babilen: he'll probably need initramfs-tools and linux-base from same.
23:02<fix>heh Ive done it successfully ONCE out of 11 attempts
23:02<babilen>fix: If you don't want to install the experimental package (which is fine for the KERNEL in most cases you can follow the instructions in the kernel handbook to compile it)
23:02<sney>but 3 packages can just be grabbed from with minimal effort
23:02<fix>oh man
23:02-!-cinematal [~Prot-Ohm@] has joined #debian
23:02<fix>I think ima just try to manually do wpa_supplicant and see how that works
23:02<fix>this laptop doesnt leave this location
23:03<babilen>sney: Yeah, but I actually think that the linux-base and initramfs-version in backports are okay in this case. fix should have those installed already. But yeah, good catch.
23:03<fix>omg my ssh connection droped to it
23:03<sney>I just assume those two
23:04<sney>you know, I have atheros wifi, and I found a bug that was apparently caused by my cpufreq driver that was breaking my wifi
23:04<fix>omg what now
23:04<fix>root@galileo:/home/devadmin# ssh
23:04<fix>ssh: connect to host port 22: No route to host
23:04<fix>jesus christ
23:04<fix>wtf is wrong now
23:04<sney>so blacklisting my cpufreq driver at boot and then loading it later made everything ok.
23:04<fix>ok ip changed
23:04<cinematal>Whats this?
23:04-!-mart_n [] has left #debian []
23:05<fix>ok well this works from inside the os
23:05<fix>wpa_supplicant -Dwext -i wlan1 -dd -c /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf && dhclient wlan1
23:05<babilen>cinematal: You know that deictic expressions are useless on IRC don't you? What's "this" ?
23:05<sney>cinematal: this is #debian. we help Debian users with configuration problems
23:05<fix>but when I try to add it to the /etc/network/interfaces it causes the boot to hang
23:05<fix>does anyone have an example of how to properly add wpa_supplicant to the /etc/network/interfaces file?
23:06<babilen>fix: I've pointed out the "correct" way to configure wpa_supplicant in /etc/network/interfaces earlier -- Please read /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/README.Debian.gz -- But that will *not* help you if your problems are down to a buggy kernel module.
23:06<fix>well network manager wouldnt reconnect to my wifi, but manually doing wpa_supplicant worked
23:06<babilen>fix: I've also mentioned but it seems that I have to give you every link twice ;)
23:07<fix>I have to reboot for network-manager to connect again
23:07<babilen>fix: I agree that this might even be the preferred way of configuring the interface if you/whoever only connects to a single network.
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23:07<fix>those howtos arent well written sometimes, I think thats because programmers write them
23:07<babilen>fix: You might also want to purge network-manager from the system once you've switched to wpa_supplicant
23:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 488] by debhelper
23:08<fix>ok ill try that
23:09<babilen>fix: Well, essentially you add two things, namely "wpa-ssid mynetworkname" and "wpa-psk mysecretpassphrase" to the interface stanza in /e/n/i -- fwiw, I find to be very well written and easy to understand. Which part do you have problems with and how would you change it so that it is easier to understand?
23:09<fix>oh wow thats so simple
23:09<fix>thank you
23:10<fix>lemme reboot and see
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23:10*babilen is confused now what fix was talking about when (s)he said "those howtos arent well written sometimes, I think thats because programmers write them"
23:11<fix>oh yeah I purged network-manager allready, gg
23:11-!-amoe [] has joined #debian
23:11<fix>lol, sometimes programmers dont think like EU
23:11<fix>at least thats my opinion
23:11<fix>for what its worth
23:12<fix>but that was a very informative and well written link
23:12<fix>that works
23:12<fix>booted and its online via wpa-psk
23:12<fix>now I see how stable it is, the waiting game
23:13<fix>ill just monitor the ip from here here using sntop
23:14<fix>wireless survived sleep mode
23:14<fix>thats a good sign
23:14-!-Cnotes is now known as Cnote
23:15*babilen removes fix's enter key
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23:16<babilen>fix: have fun
23:16<fix>thanks a lot
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23:27<tpo>hi again people. Should my usb stick be mounted before copying the iso image into it?
23:28-!-kevinbenko [] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium]
23:28<babilen>tpo: No, just "cat debian.iso > /dev/sdX ; sync" and you are done. Replace "/dev/sdX" with the block device in question (check "dmesg|tail -n23" after plugging it in to learn how
23:29<tpo>thanks babilen
23:29<babilen>tpo: You copy the image *directly* to the stick. You don't copy the image *file* to a filesystem on the stick. You might also want to use the image with firmware btw
23:29-!-birch [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:30<babilen>tpo: A suitable command (but please double/triple check the device as you don't want to overwrite your harddrive) would be "cat debian.iso > /dev/sdb ; sync"
23:31<tpo>babilen: what's the difference? I got myiso image from
23:32<babilen>tpo: Ah, forget it then. The image I pointed out to you contains firmare which is needed by a lot of modern hardware components to function properly. There is, however, no XFCE image (or any CD/DVD/..) with firmware.
23:32<babilen>tpo: Are you connected to the internet during the installation? How do you connect if that is the case?
23:32<babilen>!tell tpo -about firmware
23:32<babilen>!tell tpo -about installer firmware
23:33<tpo>babilen: it has the further disadvantage (in my case) that precisely what doesn't work is the wireless device
23:33<babilen>"it" ?
23:33<babilen>tpo: Maybe your wireless device needs firmware - A lot of them do!
23:33<tpo>babilen: it = the netinst
23:34<tpo>babilen: I don't if connecting to the internet be possible... my problem is that I installed Squeeze on a laptop I just bought and the system doesn't recognise neither my ethernet nor my wireless cards
23:35<babilen>tpo: Well, carry on. You might want to think about firmware when you are working to get your wireless sorted out. You also definitely want to install iucode-tool and either intel-microcode or amd64-microcode (depending on your processor) to update the microcode of your processor. (very important if you want properly functioning hardware)
23:35-!-heliotropo_ [~heliotrop@] has joined #debian
23:35<fix>well, if its an intel wifi card
23:35<fix>then its not free software
23:35<fix>and youll have to install it afterwards
23:35<tpo>so someone suggested that I try Wheezy, because it contains a lot of drivers
23:36<babilen>Yeah, those should™ work and definitely need firmware
23:36<tpo>fix: it's an atheros
23:36<babilen>!tell fix about iwlwifi
23:36<fix>yeah what chipset?
23:36<tpo>fix: and it apparently is not free
23:36<fix>apt-get install iw wireless-tools
23:36<fix>must have
23:36<fix>atheros drivers are not proprietary afaik
23:36<tpo>fix: mate, the problem is that I can't access the internet, not even through my ethernet; the laptop doesn't recognise either card
23:36<fix>either ath5k or ath9k
23:37<fix>what form factor and chipset is the card
23:37<fix>PCMCIA, USB, MiniPCIx?
23:37-!-heliotropo [~heliotrop@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:37<fix>when u do lspci do you see any network devices?
23:38<babilen>tpo: Do you still have squeeze on that box? FWIW, you can quite easily install a newer kernel (the one from wheezy in fact) on squeeze by pulling it from backports. Read "/msg dpkg backports" and "/msg dpkg bdo kernel" to learn how. I guess that your wireless problems are easily fixable by (if necessary) installing a newer kernel, firmware and configuing the devices accordingly.
23:38<fix>apt-cache search kernel-3
23:38<tpo>babilen: how can I install a new kernel? Keep in mind that I can't connect to the internet
23:38<fix>apt-get install -t squeeze-backports yourkernel-image-3x yourkernel-header-3x -y or w/e
23:38<fix>oh man
23:39<fix>if your using the stock kernel 2.6 thats your problem
23:39<fix>install kernel from backports
23:39<fix>my atheros wouldnt work either until I did
23:39<babilen>tpo: But to determine that we would need to have precise information about the hardware on your system. The output of "lspci -n" (for hardware compatibility websites such as or "lspci -nn" (for humans) provides that for example
23:40<babilen>tpo: You can also install squeeze with a newer kernel from the beginning by using the kmuto installer (/msg dpkg kmuto) -- Sorry, just throwing out options here.
23:40<tpo>babilen: I did, actually! And that's why I bought that laptop... my ethernet is supposed to be controlled by atl1c and my wireless by ath9k
23:40-!-chitchat [] has joined #debian
23:40<fix>yeah ath9k, upgrade your kernel to 3.2.0
23:40<fix>uname -a whats your kernel version? 2.6.x ill bet
23:40<babilen>tpo: Right now I would recommend to just install wheezy, get necessary firmware and (optionally) provide it during the installation when asked (see "/msg dpkg installer firmware" or use a firmware image)
23:40<tpo>fix: yes, it's 2.6.x
23:41<fix>thats your problem
23:41<tpo>I'm installing wheezy right now
23:41<fix>id be willing to bet on it, im so sure
23:41*themill steals fix's enter key
23:41<tpo>the installer recognised the devices!!!!
23:41*fix realizes excessive spammy chatting...whoops
23:41<babilen>themill: I've done that already. It didn't help. fix seems to insist that enter keys are punctuation and that you don't actually need to write proper sentences.
23:42<tpo>eth0: atheros communications inc. AR8151 v2.0 gigabit ethernet
23:42<tpo>wlan0: atheros &c AR9485 wireless network adapter
23:42<tpo>is this a good sign???
23:42<fix>note really
23:42<babilen>tpo: Please keep in mind that you can install with the same kernel on squeeze by using the kmuto installer (just saying, if you would rather use Debian stable)
23:42<fix>I just had to remove AR9450 because it disconnects at random
23:43<dpkg>The Atheros AR8151 v1.0 Gigabit Ethernet controller (PCI ID 1969:1073) is supported by the <atl1c> driver in Debian linux-image packages since linux-2.6 2.6.32-28 (Debian bug #599771), ask me about <install debian>. AR8151 v2.0 (PCI ID 1969:1083) is supported by atl1c since Linux 2.6.36, ask me about <kmuto> for device use at Debian installation time.
23:43<fix>I installed an AR9285 instead, and still have the issues, I had to remove network-manager alltogether
23:43<fix>ar9485 actually, is what I had, and nothing but problems with it disconnecting from wifi at random
23:43<fix>and I had to have kernel 3.2.0 to even use it
23:44<fix>tpo, is this also an acer laptop by chance?
23:44<babilen>tpo: yeah, you need a newer kernel for that NIC -- Either by installing it from backports (/msg dpkg bdo kernel), but installing stable with a newer kerner (/msg dpkg kmuto) or by just running a development release (wheezy) as you are doing now.
23:44<tpo>babilen: I actually wanted to give testing a try because of the versions of some packages (rhythmbox and texmaker for instance)
23:44<fix>Because Im here for wifi issues, and we are going to have similar issues since our hardware is similar
23:44<tpo>fix: it is an acer, why??
23:44<fix>mine is too
23:45<fix>nothing but problems with wifi with this laptop/card on debian-squeeze
23:45<babilen>tpo: Sure that's fine. Have fun with testing, realise that it is still WIP and far from done and ... "/join #debian-next" and read -- make sure you install apt-listbugs and apt-listchanges (and iucode-tool + amd/intel-microcode) and find, file and fix bugs :)
23:46<tpo>fix: that's why I'm installing wheezy, someone here (I don't remember who) suggested that. babilen: is it possible to install a kernel on any version without "upgrading" the version?
23:46<tpo>babilen: I always file them... I don't know how to fix them though, I'm new to all this.
23:46<babilen>tpo: It typically is.
23:46<fix>Well, I just upgraded everything to backports and still had the same problems even after removing the ar9485 and installing an ar9285 or w/e
23:46<tpo>and as I said earlier: I don't know programming
23:47<fix>so, now I removed network-manager and ive manually configured /etc/network/interfaces for my wireless
23:47<fix>I just did it an hour ago so Ima see if it also drops the connection
23:47<babilen>tpo: I was primarily joking about the fixing part. If you have an idea on how to do it: To it! but don't feel bad if you don't :)
23:47<fix>I have a feeling its something in the acer putting the wireless card into low power mode or something gay like that
23:47<babilen>tpo: A detailed and well-written bug report is hard work too and helpful. (see "/msg dpkg reportbug")
23:47<tpo>babilen: the thing is that, on this laptop, when I tried to install anything that wasn't in the repos of squeeze but was on those of wheezy, the system automatically prompted me to upgrade... well, actually only to install the packages of the testing version
23:48<fix>erm you shouldnt mix squeeze with wheezy repos
23:48<fix>you should be using squeeze-backports instead
23:48<tpo>babilen: mate, what do you mean with "/msg dpkg x"? I typed some of those commands and nothing came out
23:49<babilen>tpo: Well, you should *never* mix stable with testing or unstable. If you need a newer version or package from wheezy/sid then you can install it from backports (/msg dpkg backports) if it has been backported already or backport it yourself (/msg dpkg ssb) if it hasn't
23:49-!-fluid [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
23:49<fix>hey tpo, pm me your email address, we need to stick together since we have the same issues and the same hardware, maybe if we beg and plead enough these problems will be fixed
23:49<tpo>fix: I did, I didn't mix the repos... the thing is that Squeeze didn't allow me to install anything in the "newer" versions without prompting for the removal of old versions and installation of new ones of other packages
23:50<themill>tpo: umm... that's a sign that you're mixing repos. installing packages within squeeze won't do that
23:50<babilen>tpo: How hard the backport of a particular package actually is depends on its dependencies and other adaptations that are necessary. It might be quite easy to impossible. You wouldn't, for example, want to backport GNOME. But meh, this is moot now and you can just enjoy testing.
23:50<tpo>themill: okey, I probably was... I'm quite sure I was using backports though
23:50<fix>I installed gnome-desktop from bckports , hell I even apt-get upgrade -t squeeze-backports
23:51<fix>whats the problem wit doing that?
23:51<babilen>tpo: The symptoms you mention are highly indicative of you mixing stable with testing or unstable. (bad bad bad)
23:51<fix>no babilen
23:51<fix>you are wrong
23:51<babilen>yes babilen
23:51<fix>I know, I have the same hardware and same problems
23:51<fix>with debian squeeze stable vanilla install, the wifi card isnt even detected with kernel 2.6
23:51<babilen>fix: What exactly is wrong?
23:52<themill>fix: there is no gnome-desktop in backports and trying to upgrade everything to packages in backports is going to leave you with an untested mess -- you'd be better of running wheezy than doing that.
23:52<fix>you have to upgrade to kernel 3.2.0 for Ath9k to work with AR9485
23:52<fix>I know, Ive got the same laptop
23:52<themill>fix: you'd get a new kernel for squeeze from squeeze-backports not by installing it from other releases.
23:52<fix>from backports, correct
23:52<tpo>babilen: okay you're probably right... I remember downloading a deb package and trying to install it and that's when I got this message from the installer that I should remove old versions and install newer ones of most of my software, specially GNOME and libraries
23:53-!-heliotropo_ [~heliotrop@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:53<fix>but, theres still problems, ath9485 drops at random, even with the kernel
23:53<babilen>fix: *which* wireless card? Please -- I've tried to help you with your problem, but you decided that you'd rather configure wpa_supplicant and test that. That is okay with me, but I stopped investigating issues with your particular card. Just because tpo has an Atheros card as well doesn't mean *at all* that (s)he is going to have the same problems.
23:53<fix>ar9485 sir
23:53<babilen>fix: Seriously: If you want help: Ask detailed and informative questions.
23:54<tpo>Well, it's done!! The installer is connected to the internet!!!
23:54<fix>sirdancealota, seriously, I have serious issues with this hardware and I want it fixed as much as he does
23:54<fix>I type seriously and it auto completed someone elses name, sorry
23:54<babilen>tpo: wonderful! :)
23:55<fix>I mean, if I cant get this wireless issue resolved Im going to be forced to reinstall Microsoft Crapware Windows 7, and I really do not want to do that
23:55<babilen>fix: No, you wanted to configure wpa_supplicant and test the behaviour with that setup.
23:55<fix>Im trying to convert my users to Debian
23:55<fix>yes, and I have done that
23:55<tpo>Now, I'm using the ethernet card... should there be any trouble configuring the wlan0 device afterwards? I had some trouble doing it when I installed squeeze on this laptop, and I recall using the eht0 to retrieve packages during installation
23:55<fix>I will find out how it goes, but still, it doesnt fix the problem,
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23:56*themill wonders if there's another language fix would be happier seeking help in
23:56<tpo>If I may compliment all of you: you are quite amazing, knowing all this stuff about debian... are you developers? I'm glad I came here btw :)
23:57<fix>Im not a developer, I am a user like you, but these other guys, some are devs, and I agree, thank you for making a world of free software available to all of us. and all you do.
23:57<themill>tpo: some developers, some maintainers, mostly interested users volunteering their time
23:58<tpo>themill: that's actually the main reason I switched to debian, it's mostly done by users; it's a perfect communism XD
23:58<babilen>tpo: Please make sure to enable non-free and contrib (you are asked during the expert installer) and just come here once you are done with the installation. We can surely sort that out too, but it is nothing you have to worry about right now as you ethernet is working.
23:58-!-kmshanah_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:58<fix>personally, Im sick of my users bringing infected windows machines, Einstiens definition of insantiy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, therefore, Im trying to convert them to Debian
23:59<tpo>babilen: I haven't been asked that yet, but I'll keep it in mind.
23:59<fix>hey tpo whats the model of your acer laptop?
23:59<fix>Let me see if its the exact one I have, one sec, ill get my model number
23:59<babilen>fix: Seriously: These stories don't help us to concentrate on actual support in here. I kindly ask you to stop it and focus on what we are working on here. I hope that it's okay with you.
---Logclosed Mon Nov 12 00:00:03 2012