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#debian IRC Logs for 2015-01-08

---Logopened Thu Jan 08 00:00:17 2015
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02:32<rektide>is there a command line util i can use to get info on an apt repo? i'd like to get various informations back from a repo, to help me better set up pinning against it?
02:32<rektide>i don't know how to generate any qualifiers that the docs assume people know how to gather
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02:40<jm_>but perhaps you can explain which information you are looking for
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02:43<rektide>i don't know what information i'm looking for
02:43<rektide>i'm trying to understand as a 15 years at this newb who has cut his teeth not understanding what to use to pin with
02:44<rektide>what things are available. i'd like to be able to visualize and see, and it seems reasonable that some admin would have built a package during this 15 years that would help get useful Release information for the various repos
02:45<rektide>rather than it being ongoing bitch skut work
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02:46<jm_>I have no idea what you want to do but perhaps this will help -- grep : /var/lib/apt/lists/*_Release
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02:52<rektide>i'm with you- i have no idea what i want to do either, but that does definitely help
02:53<jm_>have you read man apt_preferences and ?
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02:54<rektide>i needed some kind of information to look at. apt_preferences tells me tools i have to make selections, but doesn't give me pointers for how to easily see what different meta-data i can select through
02:54<rektide>many a time
02:55<jm_>'apt-cache policy' will also display this in a much better format (suitable for preferences file)
02:56<rektide>i've used 'apt-cache policy [packagename]' a lot to see what effects i've had
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02:57<rektide>for a newbie, i think the big challenge is they get handed a bunch of rule-making capabilities, but they're not sure what kind of rule it is that they're trying to make, and they don't have an easy way to see metadata a given repository's Release is showing them
02:58<rektide>your grep worked great for taht
02:58<rektide>i'd definitely add your grep to the apt_preferences manual
02:58<jm_>I recommend to switch to 'apt-cache policy' instead of grep (without pkgname obviously)
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03:00<rjsalts>rektide: seems pertinent too
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03:12<EmleyMoor>I've got an odd permissions problem - on two of my machines, I have installed fuse (the Spectrum emulator) locally. On my laptop, it works without issues, but on my desktop, if I try to use emulated Beta disks, the emulated Spectrum tells me "No disk". However, if (not a good idea of course), I run fuse as root, it works. Everything I have tried to track this down seems to produce so much output I can't actually spot what's wrong. Any advice?
03:12<EmleyMoor>(both are on wheezy btw)
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03:14<berto>EmleyMoor: did you try strace?
03:15<jm_>maybe use strace and look for EACCES
03:16<EmleyMoor>berto: Yes. It's the oodles of output that make that of limited use... but, jm_, thanks for that potentially helpful clue.
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03:18<EmleyMoor>jm_: No EACCES
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03:18<EmleyMoor>Ah, hold on - typo
03:19<berto>EmleyMoor: I have to leave now, if you figure out something let me know
03:19<berto>(I'm the fuse maintainer)
03:19<EmleyMoor>Bizarre.. seems to want to read a file from the source!
03:19<rektide>i see /var/lib/apt/lists/mozilla.debian.net_dists_experimental_Release:Origin: Debian Mozilla Team but Pin: release o="Debian Mozilla Team" doesn't seem to match origin. Hhelp?
03:20<rektide>or perhaps...
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03:21<rektide>i have another rule in /etc/apt/preferences.d/experimental that says Pin: release n=experimental with Pin-Priority: 200
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03:21<rektide>i'm not sure whether the origin rule isn't matching or whether the experimental rule is taking effect
03:21<rektide>(i also had forgotten that experimental normally pins to 1)
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03:23<rektide>ok i deleted the experimental rule, now it's back to 500, not hte elevated 600 i was hoping the release o="Debian Mozilla Team" pin is supposed to match
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03:26<jm_>are you sure that syntax is OK?
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03:26<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... that seems to be a red herring
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03:27<EmleyMoor>jm_: Nothing given on a search for EACCES is useful
03:28<rektide>Package: iceweasel \ Pin: release "o=Debian Mozilla Team" \ Pin-Priority: 600
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03:28<jm_>EmleyMoor: so maybe it's not a permission issue
03:28<rektide>i'm trying different quoting styles, trying to use \ to escape these spaces
03:28<rektide>nothing works
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03:29<EmleyMoor>jm_: It's some kind of "user can't access, root can" issue, from the way it's behaving...
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03:30<EmleyMoor>Is there any way to do an strace only on the "hot" spot or is it necessary to run it for the whole process?
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03:32<jm_>EmleyMoor: you can attach to a process with it, see -p
03:32<rektide>oh fuck this these rules fucking work if i use Package: *
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03:34<rektide>this has got to be an apt_preferences bug, no fucking way
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03:35<jm_>rektide: it works for me for a specific package too
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03:39<EmleyMoor>The only significant errors on my desktop seem to relate to gnome sounds files...
03:40<EmleyMoor>There's just oodles of EAGAINs besides those
03:40<rektide>here's the outputs i'm looking at
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03:42<EmleyMoor>Like I say, it works on another machine of similar environment... and also if run as root.,..
03:43<Iridos>krion, but that really smells of a newer debhelper needed than the package specifies (as someone already pointed out and which would be a bug in the package) ... I don't remember your pastes exactly... but in my memory it really was a problem building
03:43<jm_>I only tried it with o=Debian Mozilla Team, not with origin
03:44<jm_>EmleyMoor: maybe try to diff the strace outputs
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03:45<EmleyMoor>jm: I'll have a go...
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03:46<rektide>hmm i think i've failed to read the apt-cache policy table correctly this whole time. but on the other hand, i don't seem to be able to formulate a rule that matches just the Debian Mozilla Team packages on experimental
03:46<rektide>i don't think "release" works with Pacakge: *
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03:47<rektide>on line 10 and 12, I get the same 600 priority for both jessie and these experimental releases
03:48<EmleyMoor>Pacakge: surely won't work anywaay <g>
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03:48<raul>hola que tal
03:48<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
03:50<rektide>EmleyMoor: i don't understand why not? isn't that what they are there for? there's an example of Package: perl that seems similar to what I'm attempting?
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03:50<EmleyMoor>Package: should, though
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03:52<babilen>rektide: btw, what are you trying to achieve? And this might be due to different apt versions too
03:53<rektide>babilen: well, i'm trying not to feel awful about using pinning, which i've felt awful and useless at for 15 years now
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03:53<rektide>i thought this would be a super easy sample use case to make myself confident again
03:53<rektide>"just pin on an experimental iceweasel version"
03:53<babilen>Well, this isn't #feelbetter, but #debian, so I'd hope you want to achieve something a little more technical
03:53<krion>Iridos: here is my pastebin
03:53<rektide>that is technical and you can go blow yourself
03:54<krion>i'm building on wheezy, my goal was to backport qtwebkit from sid to wheezy
03:54<rektide>it's nothing but technicals
03:54<babilen>rektide: Please, there is no reason for statements such as that. I simply wanted to understand what you are trying to do, but alright. Good luck.
03:55<EmleyMoor>Hmmm.... now on my laptop I'm getting the more generic *ERROR*
03:55<Iridos>\o/ for rectide, who managed to piss off the single most patient and polite person in the channel... congratulations
03:55<stevenm>Lo, if package X "provides" (when you look at the package info) package named Y (but Y isn't obviously installed). then if package Z is installed depending on Y - should that dependency be satisfied?
03:56<rektide>it's both too late for me to be doing this and i'm in too deep to quit
03:58<rektide>but i'll moderate in here some. that said, ever since i've shown up on irc the #1 thing i see happen is people ask for help on something then they endure 10 rounds of people trying to tell them how whatever they're asking about isn't actually what they want to ask about and how they should instead do this other thing, which always seems like a huge cop out from people dodging what are frequently interesting nuanced questions
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03:59<rektide>and i didn't stitch it together that babilen hadn't read my slightly more useful what i'm doing when he wrote his reply
03:59<EmleyMoor>Actually. that *ERROR* is a good sign - it means it sees a disk
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04:00<babilen>rektide: That is because people often fall victim to the xy problem and we simply start by trying to understand what a person *really* likes to achieve (so that we can suggest an alternative and better approach if such a thing exists)
04:00<EmleyMoor>Still tons of output
04:01<babilen>Too bad the pinning errata is not online anymore
04:03<babilen> that is
04:03*EmleyMoor is coming to the conclusion the problem might (just might) be in his home directory
04:04<rektide>trying to hone in on a problem as fast as possible is the way to invite in creative destruction
04:04<babilen>rektide: Pay close attention to the paragraph starting with "There is a significant difference between Package: * and Package: packagename. In the latter case …"
04:04<rektide>exploration and ill defined knowledge and idea gathering is where valuable understanding originates from
04:04<babilen>I beg to differ.
04:05<rektide>ofc you exist harmoniously in this medium saturated by victorious problem-honer-inners
04:05<rektide>but what i havent said that i've got to say is i'm sorry for getting tee off at you earlier babilen
04:05<babilen>rektide: Would you mind taking that elsewhere? And I can only suggest *once more* to read the paragraph I referenced before.
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04:07<rektide>my flips a friendly playful bird babilens way this time
04:07<rektide>yeah on it as soon as i finish automating the working junk i have now and checking it in
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04:07<rektide>thanks btw
04:09<EmleyMoor>It *is* something in my home directory
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04:24<EmleyMoor>I've moved my .fuserc aside and the problem has gone away
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04:40<Iridos>krion, that is (most likely) a problem building, not packaging. The problem with packaging is that a file is missing... and - not sure if debian/tmp/usr/include/qt4/QtWebKit/QGraphicsWebView is a regular file or a directory... but most likely cause for it to be missing is that it failed to build some place above. .... actually... I also started wondering why you're doing that... it's not a lot of fun to build stuff like qt.... 2.3.4 is a very old version of
04:40<Iridos> qtwebkit?
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04:46<krion>Iridos: the file is present, but not in the tmp directory
04:47<krion>i try to cp it, but it got deleted before "building"
04:47<krion>Iridos: yes, qtwebkit
04:47<krion>3h30 build FYI
04:47<krion>2.3.4 is in sid, and build against gstreamer1.0
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04:48<krion>as qtwebkit in wheezy is build against gstreamer0.10, which doesn't work for me
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04:48<jm_>wouldn't it be easier to upgrade to jessie?
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04:49<Iridos>judd, versions libqt4-webkit --arch amd64
04:49<judd>Package: libqt4-webkit on amd64 -- squeeze: 4:4.6.3-4+squeeze1; squeeze-security-lts: 4:4.6.3-4+squeeze2; wheezy: 4:4.8.2+dfsg-11; wheezy-backports: 4:4.8.6+dfsg-2~bpo70+1; sid: 4:4.8.6+git64-g5dc8b2b+dfsg-2+b1; jessie: 4:4.8.6+git64-g5dc8b2b+dfsg-2+b1
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04:50<Iridos>that's confusing me... in your paste it says qtwebkit-2.3.4.dfsg , but for sid, judd has 4:4.8.6+git64-g5dc8b2b+dfsg-2+b1
04:50<Iridos>I don't see where those meet anywhere
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04:51<jm_>iridium: different packages, libqt4-webkit is a transitional package
04:52<krion>guess so, i apt-get source qtwebkit
04:52<krion>jm_: that's what i did
04:53<krion>jm_: but then, my puppet doesn't work and command line arguments got disabled in nrpe, so i got no monitoring too :D
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04:53<krion>i was curious of what i did wrong in the qtwebkit, since i build several other package like qt4, gstreamer
04:54<krion>the only thing i did was delete the "source directory" of qt4
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04:55<jm_>krion: btw, is 3h build with using -j switch for dpkg-buildpackage?
04:58<jm_>so that shall speed it up for you if you have CPU power for it
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05:28<root_>any software to convert iso to img
05:28<root_>for linux
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05:29<root_>dpkg iso to img
05:29<dpkg>root_: i haven't a clue
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05:29<root_>dpkg iso img
05:29<dpkg>no idea, root_
05:29<root_>dpkg ok
05:29<dpkg>root_: I don't know, could you explain it?
05:30<root_>dpkg iso to img converter
05:30<dpkg>root_: wish i knew
05:30<root_>dpkg :/
05:30<dpkg>~/ is your home dir silly!, or root, of all Unix
05:30<root_>dpkg :(
05:31<root_>dpkg kali linux
05:31<dpkg>Kali Linux ( is a security and penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on or . Also ask me about <based on debian>.
05:31<root_>dpkg love u
05:31*dpkg makes love to u, caressing u's hair, whispering sweet nothings in u's ear...
05:31<SynrGy>please don't play with the bot
05:31<root_>synrgy xp
05:32<Stummi>an iso is an image
05:32<root_>man can you tell me a iso to img converter
05:32<Stummi>what is img?
05:32<root_>iso to .img
05:32<SynrGy>root_: if you're using kali, it's off-topic for this channel.
05:32<Artoo>root_: try mv
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05:32<Stummi>cp file.iso file.img
05:32<SynrGy>it is, as the factoid above says, supported on #kali-linux @ freenode
05:33<root_>no i just want a software that converts .iso file to .img
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05:33<Stummi>root_, you don't need to convert
05:33<Stummi>.iso and .img is actually the same
05:33<root_>they ant
05:33<SynrGy>root_: what is the exact input filename?
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05:34<SynrGy>root_: debian iso images are 'hybrid' which means they can be written directly to USB without any conversion.
05:34<root_>input file : linux.iso > output linux.img
05:34<SynrGy>root_: if you're using kali, i don't know what they are. as i said, we don't support it here.
05:34<root_>i m using debain
05:34<SynrGy>literally 'linux.iso'? where did you get it?
05:35<SynrGy>root_: kali is not debian
05:35<root_>man giving you example
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05:35<root_>kali is debain
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05:35-!-mode/#debian [+q *!*@] by SynrGy
05:35-!-mode/#debian [-o SynrGy] by SynrGy
05:35<SynrGy>!based on debian
05:35<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
05:35<SynrGy>root_: please take it to #kali-linux @ freenode. thanks
05:36<bootnet>good morning
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05:36<kblin>hi folks
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05:37<kblin>I'm trying to install the current stable on a dell precision, and it seems like the debinstaller isn't even starting. any pointers on where to start debugging/
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05:40<SynrGy>kblin: could be written to the media wrong. when you boot, do you get to select the boot device?
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05:42<stevenm>Is there a way of installing a .deb whilst ignoring one specific dependency?
05:42<kblin>yes, and I get the UEFI boot menu. but once I select a boot option (normal install, graphical install or expert install), the screen just turns black and nothing seems to be happening
05:43<kblin>stevenm: I don't think so, unless you want to fake that dep
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05:44<jm_>kblin: which image did you get?
05:44<kblin>the small CD image
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05:45<kblin>I don't see a checksums file, though
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05:46<petn-randall>stevenm: What are you trying to do?
05:47<petn-randall>stevenm: If it a hard dependency, it's likely need to make that package function. You can skip recommends/suggests though with the proper apt switches ("--no-install-recommends").
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05:53<stevenm>petn-randall, the package name it requires it wrong
05:53<stevenm>so I install the right one before installing the .deb and just want to skip installing the wrong one
05:53<petn-randall>stevenm: Sounds like you're trying to install a package not built for Debian.
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05:54<stevenm>petn-randall, it is - but no it isn't in the debian repository, it's a single .deb given by the author
05:54<stevenm>do you know of a way of accomplishing what I am looking for?
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05:54<stevenm>btw yes I'm already aware I can edit the .deb, use equivs, etc...
05:54<petn-randall>stevenm: What package is that, what does it depend on, and what are you installing instead?
05:55<kblin>stevenm: I've used "fpm" to create empty fake deps before, it's just not really nice
05:55<stevenm>kblin, i guess I could look in to that
05:55<stevenm>petn-randall, none of those questions help me further - I already know what I know about the situation, I'm not here to assess it further
05:56<bootnet>good morning
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05:56<jm_>funny, the other day you insisted equivs is not for what you need
05:56<jm_>you said*
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05:57<stevenm>jm_, different package/problem
05:57<stevenm>jm_, that was for an issue with google earth, got that resolved
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05:58<jm_>in any case, one can always use dpkg --force-foo (see --force-help) but that will obviously leave dependencies broken
05:58<stevenm>jm_, right but --force doesn't let you ignore a specific package
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05:58<stevenm>and /var/lib/dpkg/status can be edited with a quick sed one-liner anyway
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05:58<jm_>stevenm: nothing does because the system is not meant to be tricked
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05:59<stevenm>so it's inflexible in these situations
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05:59<jm_>I'd say whoever packaged this is "inflexible"
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06:00<stevenm>well I've raised the bug to them - we'll have to see how inflexible they are
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06:00<SynrGy>bootnet: did you come here to get support? if so, just ask your question. otherwise, see #debian-offtopic for social chat.
06:00<stevenm>and errors can happen, flexibility has nothing to do with it
06:00<SynrGy>bootnet: debian support, that is
06:02<stevenm>sod it I'll just add the package it wants to status, the dpkg -i, then remove that fake package entry in status as well as the packages dependancy on it
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06:03<stevenm>that'll avoid any warnings
06:03<stevenm>if it sounds nuts, well that's what inflexibility gets you :)
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06:04<jm_>feel free to provide patches to the tools and hope they agree with your corner case
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06:11<petn-randall>stevenm: I'm asking because it sounds like you're about to shoot yourself in the foot, and create a system that won't be supported by this channel. This has nothing to do with inflexiblity, it's a system that makes sure that your system is consistent and works. Of course it shouldn't be easy to circumvent that.
06:12<stevenm>I'm not shooting myself in the foot, I've identified it as a proper bug with a proper solution - the packages control file just need updating that's all
06:12<stevenm>until the author does this is a workaround
06:12<petn-randall>stevenm: You can always use dpkg-deb to manipule the package's meta-data, but I'm still asking what dependencies those are, because it'll likely end up in a unusable package, and potentially a broken system.
06:13<stevenm>and your system can already be circumvented anyway - it's just pure obstinacy and inflexibility that has preventing it from added as an option to dpkg it seems
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06:14<stevenm>i'm not interesting in your opinions on why I want to do this, I already know for myself what the issue is and it's fix
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06:14<petn-randall>stevenm: Great, then we got it solved then. Glad I could help.
06:14*jm_ smiles
06:15<stevenm>it was solved as soon as you said it couldn't be done
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06:15<petn-randall>stevenm: Use dpkg-deb to fix up your package.
06:15<stevenm>it's not *my* package
06:15<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
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06:16<Iridos>jm_, you addressed the wrong guy, though :)
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06:25<einonm>Hello, I'm having trouble getting dual monitors working after an upgrade to jessie - previously the system was working fine in wheezy. I have an GK106 [GeForce GTX 660] and am trying to use the DVI port for one monitor, and VGA for the other. If I only connect one monitor (either), it works, but not both together
06:26<jm_>einonm: are you using nvidia driver?
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06:26<einonm>jm_: no, nouveau. The NVidia driver doen't let the Xserver start for some reason
06:27<jm_>einonm: ahh never used nouveau for this, just the nvidia binary driver
06:27<einonm>xrandr reports 'xrandr: Failed to get size of gamma for output default'
06:27<jm_>einonm: ohh and for jessie support go to #debian-next
06:27<einonm>no probs, thanks
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06:33<RJ2>if i need to guarantee newer versions of my deb package are always installed in sequence, ie no version-skipping, is that possible? could i set Depends: to the previous version of my package, eg: v1 <-depends- v2 <-depends- v3 <-depends- v4 such that installing v1, then v4 would automatically install v2 then v3 first?
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06:33<RJ2>as a package, can you even depend on older versions of yourself, or is depends just for _other_ packages
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06:53<himanshu>Hello All
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06:55<himanshu>How to update VBoxGuestAdditions on Virtual box?
06:55<himanshu>anybody help me with that please?
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06:56<himanshu>I tried google they tell to go in Device menu of the host and select install Guest addition
06:56<himanshu>but it shows Insert Guest Addition for me
06:57<jm_>if you need generic vbox help try #vbox on
06:57<jm_>in debian you can install virtualbox-guest-additions-iso
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07:07<himanshu>Cant find a VBox specific place jm_
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07:07<jm_>himanshu: are you using debian?
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07:07<himanshu>yes Im using Debian wheezy
07:08<himanshu>I m trying to make USB available in my Guest OS of VirtualBox.
07:08<himanshu>Im new in Linux hence not so fluent.
07:08<himanshu>I followed tutorial
07:08<jm_>that's something you will have to grab from oracle, debian doesn't provide it AFAIK
07:09<himanshu>where shall I go?
07:10<jm_>for pass through USB you need their Extension Pack
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07:10<himanshu>Yes I installed that as stated in the Tutorial link
07:11<himanshu>but my VBox still do not detects my USB devices when I try to add them from under settings ->USB
07:12<jm_>i think you have to specify USB ID somewhere, follow the Section 3.10.1, “USB settings”. link in the URL I mentioned earlier
07:12<himanshu>Im using VBox 4.3.20 and GuestAddition version was 4.3.14 so I was trying to update it thinking it will help
07:12<himanshu>ok ill try
07:12<jm_>or was it enough to add yourself to a relevant group, I forgot
07:13<jm_>yeah that's mentioned in 3.10.2
07:14<himanshu>It should not be the issue of USB 3.0 and 2.0 right?
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07:15<himanshu>my laptop has USB 3.0 as it is new and VBox only USB 2.0(EHCI)controller
07:15<himanshu>I read somewhere that VBox doesnt support USB 3.0
07:16<jm_>I assume not
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07:16<jm_>yeah but then you could try using it in usb 2.0 port if it's really that
07:16<jm_>I only used usb 2.0 device in usb 3.0 port, not the other way arround
07:17<jm_>(when it comes to vbox - I have successfully used my usb 3.0 storage in usb 2.0 ports in general)
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07:19<himanshu>thanks Im referring to the link you gave me
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07:36<ArtooDetoo>just installed quassel-core on my debian machine. It crashes when I connect with this messages:
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07:37<ArtooDetoo>my client is version 0.10.0-2.2
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07:41<jm_>ArtooDetoo: and all the libs mentioned in stack trace are from debian wheezy too?
07:45<ArtooDetoo>jm_: aye
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07:46<jm_>then probably submit a bug report
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07:48<ArtooDetoo>alright :-(
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07:49<jm_>i had a quick look in BTS and found one crash report but with a different backtrace
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08:28<ArtooDetoo>jm_: should i repor the bug at or at
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08:28<ArtooDetoo>or both?
08:29<jm_>ArtooDetoo: I would report it to debian
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08:29<benny>prova canale
08:29<jm_>but off now
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08:30<douchesaurus>sup guyz
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08:30<benny>how are you
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08:34<douchesaurus>kalinoob overthere got me back into using linux again, I totally forgot how much fun I use to have with it
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08:35<kalin00b>hez a noob he installed kali
08:35<Selket>hi everyone
08:35<kalin00b>everyone laugh
08:35<Selket>i need help for my linux for one command plz
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08:36<Selket>iptables -t nat -A OUTPUT -o eth0 -j MASQUERADE
08:36<Selket>what is my wrong command plz ?
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09:19<ver>who -HERE
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09:25*ver HERE
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09:59<snebel>what impact would have execution flag on flat files?
09:59<snebel>in a classic linux file system
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10:00<petn-randall>snebel: What do you mean with flat files?
10:01<snebel>any file which is not executable or whioch have sebang line at the beginning
10:01<snebel>is not binary i mean
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10:02<snebel>any files which is not an executable binary
10:02<snebel>and is not an script beginning by a sebang line
10:03<snebel>as i understood thereis no impact at all
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10:07<duclicsic>snebel: if the file cannot be interpreted by the shell or is not an executable binary there isn't much harm in applying execute permissions to it, but why would you want to? there is of course a security implication, if for instance someone else has the ability to edit that file they might be able to make it into a workable executable script and do bad things..
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10:10<snebel>if someone could edit the file he could too create a blank file then put whatever hewant inside, then because he would be the owner update permissions to grant execution, isn't?
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10:11<snebel>i mean if some is able to modify would be able to create too?
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10:14<snebel>and thinking about this, if some have writte access would be able to writte any thing then run it even without the execution flag by calling the interpreter directly if he have access, isn't?
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10:15<snebel>or he could have forbidden access to interpreter but be able to run scripts using this interpreter because of the execution flag?
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10:16<blast007>snebel: let's say you are the owner of the file. The group that the file belongs to has multiple users. If you have writes allowed for the group, any of them could change the contents, but they couldn't make the file executable.
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10:18<snebel>yes, but since they could run the file by passing the path like argument to the interpreter this wont be really important i guess...
10:19<blast007>I don't get why you'd want to make non-executable files executable...
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10:22<snebel>this is just about to understanding
10:22<snebel>because i don't found any real problem with this
10:22<blast007>your shell will autocomplete executable filenames...
10:23<snebel>let's say i have a folder with subfolders with files and scripts where someone did a mess
10:23<snebel>with the permissions
10:23<blast007>then you should fix it, not make it more of a mess
10:23<snebel>i have php scripts and other stuff for exmaple
10:24<snebel>lets say you you have 10000 files
10:24<blast007>PHP scripts aren't marked as executable
10:24<snebel>so why not to give all of them the execution flag so you don't have to care about which should or shouldn't have
10:25<snebel>i completely agree with you on that
10:25<blast007>because that's lazy security
10:25<petn-randall>snebel: Do you have a specific use case you're trying to solve, or are you asking out of curiosity.
10:25<snebel>but some users here don't thing the same
10:25<snebel>so i'm wondering whats the real impact
10:25<snebel>a little of both
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10:25<snebel>i did the action days ago
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10:26<snebel>finally removed executuon flag
10:26<snebel>day ago
10:26<snebel>and told users about to use php interpreter
10:26<snebel>to call scripts
10:26<petn-randall>snebel: From the security standpoint *not* having the x bit set is better. You should understand the security implications when you do that.
10:26<snebel>and now i'm wondering about the real impact of have this execution flag on the files
10:27<snebel>but which are those implications?
10:27<snebel>that's what i'm trying to understand
10:27<snebel>so the question is why is better?
10:27<snebel>what bad thing could happen?
10:27<blast007>we've told you already..
10:27<snebel>even if this is a very tricky situation
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10:28<snebel>but if some with write permisions is able to modify the file then run it he could to create a file from scratch and run it since he have the ownership and can add execution permissions
10:29<snebel>so as i understand there is no practical difference
10:29<snebel>which is imoprtant is if you have access to the binary/interpreter
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10:29<snebel>or i miss something
10:29<blast007>nope. just because you can write to a file that already exists does NOT mean you can create files in that directory
10:30<blast007>if you do not have write permissions to the directory, you cannot create or rename files in it. But you could edit a file within it that exists if you have permissions to that file.
10:31<snebel>wow, be able to write the file and to execute into the shell but not to create any file into the filesystem... this is a very tricky situation but you technically right
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10:32<snebel>into the whole filesystem i mean
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10:33<snebel>thank you, i'll sleep again this night without think about this : -) jejejej
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10:34<snebel>i take the opportunity because i'm here, is there any news about jessie?
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10:34<snebel>is released?
10:35<snebel>and other thing i'm new into debian, since the stable release is released is good for production? or people take some time to start migrating?
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11:03<petn-randall>snebel: Jessie will be released when it's ready, so no ETAs. When it's declared stable you can start migrating to it.
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11:03<weasel>you can also start earlier, if you want. caveat emptor.
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11:04<snebel>there is some "indicator" to know pretty much when would be released? something like a development board with packages validated and how much pendindg or similar?
11:06<snebel>and what about migration trough upgrade? any good advise that you don't find on the internet?
11:06<snebel>to be honest i'm starting to really enjoy debian
11:06<snebel>i really like!
11:06<rfreeman>snebel, maybe
11:07<snebel>i'll take a look than you
11:07<petn-randall>snebel: You can look at the RC bug count, and extrapolate when the count hits zero. The release notes have *very* verbose upgrade instructions.
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11:08<snebel>i guess this is the standard way to upgrade and works good on complex production systems? sorry if this is stupid question but i'm used to reinstall the whole system for new releases using provisioning tools...
11:09<snebel>and i unknown how risky could be..
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11:09<snebel>doing a dist-upgrade to a new release
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11:19<petn-randall>snebel: Well, of course you prepare. If the systems are mission-critical, you test it on a staging system, first. I can only say that the last upgrades lenny→squeeze and squeeze→wheezy ran without problems on all my production systems. It's one of Debian's strengths :)
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11:21<snebel>of course, first staging :-) thank you for the information i'll do
11:21<snebel>so this is still better than reinstall even with provisioning tools
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11:22<snebel>for relally critical ones may be i'll keep the way of reinstalll and switch over.. not just for fear to problems but for uptime :-)
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11:24<petn-randall>snebel: If you have provisioning tools, it might make sense to reinstall nonetheless, to check if the cookbooks/manifests are up-to-date.
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11:27<snebel>the problem i have is that many of my servers are still running on bare metal machines, so to reinstall we have to take a new one, cancel the old and this is in best case 1 month payment plus for each server, so if for the less important ones could i try to just upgrade...
11:27<snebel>i'll think about anyway
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11:28<snebel>thank you so much everybody :-)
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11:40<PovAddict>how do I compile a binary that will run on older distros? currently I'm getting "/usr/lib64/ version `GLIBCXX_3.4.20' not found"
11:41<PovAddict>can I statically link to libstdc++, or should I compile it on an old Debian?
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11:51<Veltas>PovAddict: Compiling on an old debian is probably the easiest solution
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12:05<PovAddict>Veltas: how old do you think I should go?
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12:08<PovAddict>I'm already compiling libraries myself and statically linking to them, even zlib
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12:08<PovAddict>so I don't have to worry about an old debian not having my deps
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12:14<retrospectacus>why go older than wheezy? Nothing older is supported
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12:31<maxy>retrospectacus: squeezy is supported by the lts team
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12:36<PovAddict>retrospectacus: other non-Debian distros may have older supported releases
12:38<Fenhl>hello, I'm trying to rip a DVD using k3b, and it's erroring with “Execution of transcode failed.” on all titles. Is this the right place to ask for support?
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12:42<Maulkin>Fenhl: What version of Debian are you running?
12:42<Fenhl>Maulkin: stable
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12:44<Fenhl>looking at the debug log, it seems like transcode was expecting a file named ./ffmpeg.cfg
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12:44<Fenhl>not sure where to put it and what the contents are supposed to be
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12:47<Maulkin>Fenhl: Hrm... seems there's a bug open about a similar issue
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12:47<Maulkin>Fenhl: Can you try the workaround mentioned in ?
12:47<PovAddict>"By far the most reliable way I've found to run old binaries on Linux is ... to run a Windows binary under Wine." rofl
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12:53<jhutchins>Fenhl: Usually local config files are optional.
12:54<jhutchins>Fenhl: Is there a chance the original disk has copy protection?
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13:21<Fenhl>jhutchins: no idea
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13:23<Fenhl>Maulkin: I'll try tha
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13:53<roniz>How do I check which version of software is installed on my system?
13:53<dpkg>Kernel: uname -r, or cat /proc/version. Package: dpkg -l _pkgname_ , or run apt-cache policy <packagename>. Miscellaneous commands: try --version on the command. For the version of Debian, ask me about <debian suite>.
13:53<buffoon>roniz, apt-cache policy
13:53<roniz>so apt-cache policy packagename
13:54<buffoon>roniz, yep
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13:55<ckosloff>I am installing a LAMP server on a VM, I started by installing webserver from tasksel, I should next install myql server and client. Wiki recommends to do this first, will it make any difference if I install mysql afterwards?
13:56<retrospectacus>ckosloff: that's fine
13:56<dpkg>LAMP: Linux, Apache, MySQL, {PHP,Perl,Python} server. Ask me about <install debian><install apache><install mysql><install php>. (Hmm... doesn't that make it a DAMP stack?), or "aptitude install libapache2-mod-php5 mysql-server php5-mysql"., or
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14:01<ckosloff>retrospectacus: thanks
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14:02<guardian>hello, just found out about is this already patched in debian?
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14:03<Maulkin>guardian: hi, latest status is at
14:04<Maulkin>guardian: The security team are aware, and are looking in to it.
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14:04<guardian>thank you
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14:04<Maulkin>And it's in the DSA needed list, so it'll get patched as soon as they get a chance.
14:05<retrospectacus>you can look up status of CVE at e.g.
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14:29<jhutchins>Fenhl: What kind of data is on the disk, and what do you need to do with it?
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14:30<Fenhl>jhutchins: it's a video DVD and I want to watch it, but I have one debian machine with a DVD drive and one MacBook with headphones
14:31<Fenhl>my idea was to rip the video off the dvd and copy it over to the Mac, but I'm running into walls left and right
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14:35<retrospectacus>Fenhl: here is the command I have used to "rip" a DVD with success
14:35<retrospectacus>mencoder -quiet dvd:////media/cdrom -oac mp3lame -ovc lavc -lavcopts threads=4:vcodec=mpeg4:mbd=1:vbitrate=1024 -of avi -o movie.avi
14:37<Fenhl>where do i start
14:37<jhutchins>Fenhl: What I've successfully done is dd if=/dev/dvd of=/path/to/file.iso. That gave me an iso image I could play with mplayer.
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14:38<jhutchins>Fenhl: If you're getting read errors then there's a good chance it's copy protected.
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14:40<dpkg>libdvdcss is a free software library for unscrambling <CSS>-encrypted DVDs, not to be confused with <DeCSS>. It is not distributed by Debian due to legal concerns. To acquire, see for repository and APT signing key information, then install the libdvdcss2 package.
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14:40<Fenhl>I have that installed
14:40<Fenhl>let me try the dd method, that seems sane
14:41<retrospectacus>can you watch the DVD with vlc or mplayer on debian (with no sound) ?
14:42<Fenhl>haven't tried, can I do that while dd is running?
14:42<retrospectacus>I suppose so
14:43<retrospectacus>it probably won't work great, but if you can see some frames ...
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14:43<Fenhl>yeah vlc plays it fine, DVD menu and everything
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14:44<retrospectacus>ok. the dd->iso method should work but will be quite a large file. My command makes a smaller mpeg/avi file
14:44<Fenhl>so if I have the iso I should be able to open it with vlc for OS X
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14:45<Fenhl>how large are we talking here?
14:45<retrospectacus>probably about 4 GB
14:46<Fenhl>that's okay, I'll try the mencoder command if dd doesn't work for some reason
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14:54<ckosloff>I am getting report from apt-listbugs about serious bug in mysql-server 5.5.40-0+wheezy1. I need to install that package, should I go ahead?
14:55<abrotman>whats' the bug?
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14:56<abrotman>which one is serious?
14:56<abrotman>Do you have PPC64el ?
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14:57<abrotman>The other one is 'serious', but probably a little bit of change to the init script would be sufficient
14:57<ckosloff>abrotman: it is in the report, don't know what PP64el is
14:57<abrotman>ckosloff: PowerPC
14:57<ckosloff>abrotman: this is a VM
14:57<abrotman>Do you have an old PowerMac or IBM p-Series?
14:57<ckosloff>abrotman: no
14:57<abrotman>well then, install away
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15:12<Finetundra>how would add a sudoer post install?
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15:13<retrospectacus>apt-get install sudo, visudo, adduser, ...
15:14<Th34rch>add your user to sudo group or edit /etc/sudoers file from root
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15:15<Finetundra>anything with a gui?
15:15<retrospectacus>for what
15:15<Finetundra>what do you mean for what?
15:16<retrospectacus>what do you want to be able to do with a guy
15:16<Finetundra>add sudoers
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15:16<Th34rch>you need a gui to edit a file?
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15:17<Finetundra>is there or is there not a gui to add sudoers? thats all im asking
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15:18<Th34rch>afaik there isn't any
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15:20<retrospectacus>seems to be it would be a silly idea - visudo is run as root, and sudo is a CLI thing - GUI does not really fit.
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15:37<awal>What's the difference between && and ; when running command in console? for example: "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade" and "xset-dpms;xset s off". If no wrong I think that && is 'and or then' but ';' ?
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15:38<Ganneff>&& == next if first was successful. ; == next when first stops, however
15:38<Th34rch>&& 'and when previous command returned no error'
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15:39<awal>Ganneff, Th34rch, thanks for the clarifications :)
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15:40<awal>so i was wrong, i thought && is simply 'and' :)
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15:42<DusXMT>awal: there's also ||, that launches a command on failure
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15:42<awal>DusXMT, example?
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15:42<DusXMT>well, when the program returns a non-0 return value, which usually means an error... for example, ls /root || echo It failed
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15:43<awal>DusXMT, ok. i got you. thanks
15:44<Th34rch>awal: Chapter 26
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15:44<musca>awal: apt-get update || apt-get -o Acquire::Pdiffs=false update || (rm /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/* ; apt-get update) && apt-get -dy dist-upgrade
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15:44<awal>Th34rch, thanks for the link. i was going to ask about
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15:45<musca>^^ tries even harder to succeed on update
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15:45<awal>musca, uy uy uy. that sounds to complicated for a newbie ;)
15:46<awal>for now i just handle && and ;
15:46<retrospectacus>my bash prompt tells me the return value of the last command. 0 is good (smiley face)
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15:49<musca>awal: the command tries three different methods of update. When one of those succeeds it skips to the last command and does the download only
15:52<awal>musca, ok. interesting. but i dont understand the meaning of " apt-get -o Acquire::Pdiffs=false update || (rm /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/* ; apt-get update)"
15:52<awal>have to check apt man pages i think so :)
15:53<DusXMT>awal: if my intuition is right, the first part means to directly download the archive indexes instead of patches to what you currently have in your apt's cache
15:55<awal>DusXMT, ok. probably yeah
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15:57<musca>PDifs are an optimization to save bandwidth.
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16:00<awal>musca, interesting bcuz sometimes my connection via wifi is too bad. apt updates successfully but fails to to download and continue with the upgrade. so in this case that whole command my be utile?
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16:00<musca>so at first i try to use them. If it fails, the second try omits the pdiffs, and the third try deletes the cached partial lists and repeats.
16:01<musca>this command is save to be repeated as often as you want.
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16:01<awal>ok, ok. good
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16:08<awal>I have another question. I have enough space in my machine (like 450 gb for /and /home) but I usually "apt-get clean && apt-get autoclean" after a full upgrade. Is that recommended for apt database, etc clean or these commands are only interesting for liberate some space in disc?
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16:08<awal>usually run ^
16:08<awal>recommended for make more clean apt database ^
16:09<awal>sorry, bad english here
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16:14<Th34rch>it deletes older versions of updated packages, it's recommended but not necessary, helps to keeps your system clean
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16:14<musca>on testing or unstable i like to have access to older packages in /var/cache/apt/archives/ as it is quite common task to manually downgrade some buggy package.
16:14<awal>Th34rch, ok. thanks
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16:15<musca>i thin on stable you don't need the old packages.
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16:16<awal>musca, ok. thanks. good info :)
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16:57<rostam>Hi is there any utilies to read GPU card edid ? thanks
16:57<abrotman>dpkg: tell rostam about whats my hardware
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16:57<abrotman>rostam: I also vaguely recall an additional package
16:57<retrospectacus>dpkg tell rostam about read-edid
16:58<rostam>Thank you all.
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16:58<rostam>by the way is there a utiltiy to write to edid also ???
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16:59<dag>have you a pdf on it?
16:59<dag>or linux
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16:59<retrospectacus>rostam: I don't think you can "write to" it but you can ignore or override it in X config
17:00<retrospectacus>dag: pardon?
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17:01<rostam>retrospectacus, yes actually I like to make my system to ignore it, or override and do not know how.
17:02<retrospectacus>dpkg: tell rostam about edid
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17:05<dag>i find a ebook or pdf
17:05<dag>for learn linux
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17:06<dpkg>For documentation and books on Debian, see and . For the recently released "Debian Administrator's Handbook", ask me about <debian-handbook>; there is also the older <debiansystem>. Also ask me about <grounding>.
17:06<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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17:18<jhutchins>dag The Linux System Administrator's Guide is an excellent general resource:
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17:20<jhutchins>awal: You can set these as default actions in your apt preferences file.
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17:23<awal>jhutchins, Ok. I'll check man pages and understand the exact meaning of each command/commands combinations, then see if it's really necessary to modify apt preferences file. Thanks for the info anyway :)
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18:45<chaospsychex>i just installed debian and there is a cmd to change some options. it kinda looks like the text-mode installer... it was 'dpkg-reconfigure' something...
18:45<chaospsychex>you can change the terminal font and such..
18:45<chaospsychex>anyone know the cmd i'm talking about ?
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18:46<PovAddict>the command yes
18:46<chaospsychex>PovAddict, what is it?
18:46<PovAddict>but it takes a package name and I don't remember what package takes care of terminal fonts
18:46<PovAddict>the command is dpkg-reconfigure as you said :)
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18:48<chaospsychex>dpkg-reconfigure --configure console or something
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18:50<chaospsychex>dpkg-reconfigure console-setup - is the mcd
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19:12<edwardp>Hey - just installed debian for first time, switching from Arch. minimal netinstall, wanted to set up my own desktop environment, etc. It seems to have installed, but constantly spams messages that look like [ xxxx.xxxxxx] [drm] nouveau 0000:01:00.0 PMC - unhandled INTR 0x44000000
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19:13<edwardp>I can enter commands and install things, but it's very difficult to do anything complicated, as the output gets over-written very quickly.
19:14<edwardp>Currently running the stable build, want to update as soon as I can do so.
19:14<abrotman>Update to what?
19:14<retrospectacus>try switching TTYs
19:15<kveroneau>Hmm, appears like your nVidia card isn't fully supported by the OSS drm module.
19:15<edwardp>Update to testing. Switch TTYs with cntrl-alt-2 or something? I did that, with no change.
19:15<retrospectacus>install ssh and ssh in to work
19:15<abrotman>edwardp: Do the update before you install other software
19:15<kveroneau>Loading the kernel with "quiet" should supress those types of kernel messages.
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19:16<abrotman>makes little sense to install a pile of software only to then upgrade to jessie
19:16<edwardp>How do I do that, kveroneau?
19:16<kveroneau>alternatively you can remove the module until your ready to boot into X.
19:16<abrotman>edwardp: editor /etc/default/grub - alter the options, run update-grub, reboot
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19:17<edwardp>The editor window gets overwritten and I can't see what I'm doing.
19:17<retrospectacus>reboot and press whatever (e?) on the grub screen to add the option
19:17<kveroneau>If you plan on using nVidia's drivers, blacklisting that module won't hurt.
19:18<Brigo>retrospectacus, yes e and after edit b to boot.
19:18<retrospectacus>yeah that
19:18<kveroneau>place "quiet" at the end of the kernel load line. The same line that shows your ROOT= device, etc...
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19:19<edwardp>I literally can't see which lines I'm looking at - it's all over-written with the error message.
19:19<kveroneau>Although on default Debian, it should already be there unless you boot using "Recovery"
19:20<kveroneau>edwardp: press the 3 finger solute to reboot safely back into grub.
19:20<kveroneau>Debian and most distros have C-A-Del change the runlevel to 6
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19:21<edwardp>Okay, 3-fingered, is rebooting (BIOS isn't working automatically yet, I suspect it's gonna just reboot to the same state it was in.)
19:22<edwardp>Stupid question - what's the name of the module I want to blacklist? nouveau?
19:22<kveroneau>edwardp, is this not an x86/amd64 system?
19:22<abrotman>edwardp: you're making this way too hard :)
19:23<kveroneau>it's "nouveau"
19:23<edwardp>I probably am, abrotman - still linux noob in a lot of ways.
19:23*abrotman wouldn't blacklist that, you might need it to fallback on
19:23<abrotman>edwardp: if ypou hit ctrl-l, does it clear your screen?
19:24<abrotman>or clear the rubbish?
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19:24<edwardp>ctrl-l seems to have no effect
19:24<PovAddict>are you still in the editor maybe?
19:24<edwardp>No, I rebooted since then.
19:24<PovAddict>oh you're rebooting
19:24<edwardp>It's back up, spamming errors as always.
19:25<edwardp>It's a fairly high-end system, new intel CPU.
19:25<abrotman>hit ctrl-l after you login
19:25<kveroneau>On x86 and amd64, it will fallback to either to fbdev, vga, or BIOS text mode. This is the DRM kernel module, blacklisting should be fine on stock Debian kernel.
19:25<edwardp>Okay, after I log in it does that.
19:25<abrotman>edwardp: otherwise, update your sources.list with sed, do the dist-upgrade, reboot
19:25<abrotman>edwardp: it does what?
19:25<edwardp>Sorry, ctrl-l clears screan after I've logged in.
19:25<abrotman>okay, good
19:25<abrotman>edwardp: so use sed to alter your sources.list
19:26<abrotman>sed -i -e 's/wheezy/jessie/g' /etc/apt/sources.list
19:26<PovAddict>can't you install jessie from scratch?
19:26<abrotman>One can do that, yes
19:26<edwardp>The wiki advised to start with stable build and upgrade, so that I wasn't using the installer that was itself being tested.
19:26<abrotman>that's fine, it's not a huge deal
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19:27<abrotman>altered your sources.list yet?
19:27<edwardp>I'm still trying to figure out how to alter files when I can't see what I'm doing. (Different toolset than I'm used to, and all.)
19:27<abrotman>edwardp: I typed the sed command you need above
19:28<edwardp>Oh, sorry, missed that.
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19:28<abrotman>well, that also assumes you have functional internet on the box now
19:28<abrotman>and you have a valid sources.list (including a main source)
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19:29<edwardp>The box is online.
19:29<abrotman>altered the file yet?
19:29<edwardp>I entered the sed command.
19:29<abrotman>you ran it, or entered it?
19:29<edwardp>Ran it, trying to tell if it worked.
19:30<abrotman>then run "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade"
19:30<abrotman>then hide, take cover
19:31<abrotman>all running?
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19:32<edwardp>I think the sed command didn't work - probably forgot to invoke sudo. Would that break anything if I ran it twice?
19:32<abrotman>edwardp: when it's done, "cat /etc/apt/sources.list" ... look for traces of "stable" or "wheezy"
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19:33<edwardp>It seems to be downloading something. I think it's working, not certain yet.
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19:34<edwardp>Okay, I'm getting downloaded percentages mixed in with the error spam, so I think it's working.
19:37<edwardp>Okay, think that's working. Anything to do when it finishes, besides reboot?
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19:45<edwardp>Anyway, thanks for the help. FIngers crossed.
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19:47<abrotman>!bless him
19:47<dpkg>O $DEITY, bless your child him, who is about to do something stupid and needs all the help you can give. Amen.
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20:04<PovAddict>abrotman: lol @ !bless
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21:12<t0n1c>Hi there! I'm trying to enable 3d acceleration in my Debian Wheezy in order to Gnome 3 works properly. I have two GPUs in my laptop on of them is a dedicated graphic card (Nvidia GTX 860M). I have to install a driver for it. I was reading the NvidiaGraphicsDrivers tuto ( but my graph is not supported. I found this though ( wh
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21:13<PovAddict>t0n1c: your message got cut after the launchpad link
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21:16<t0n1c>weird..I sent it completily.Thanks. It says "you can see is supported but I cant find it in the official repositories . lspci shows grepping its output "*-display UNCLAIMED description: 3D controller product: NVIDIA Corporation vendor: NVIDIA Corporation. nvidia-detect command obviously shows No NVIDIA GPU detected. Could you take me a hand? can I really enable 3d acceleration?"
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---Logclosed Fri Jan 09 00:00:19 2015