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#debian IRC Logs for 2016-02-19

---Logopened Fri Feb 19 00:00:06 2016
---Daychanged Fri Feb 19 2016
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00:43<ivan_>Is it hard to be a computer programmer. expert etc
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00:46<storge>as with anything, practice practice, and keep challenging yourself, minimize ego.
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00:46<teatime>whether it's hard, depends on the person; like anything else, some people have more aptitude than others.
00:47<teatime>and it will take years to reach a level you could call 'expert'.
00:47<teatime>if you are interested/passionate about it, you probably also have the aptitude.
00:47<storge>i suspect 'expert' is the elusive target you probably don't ever want to label yourself as.
00:48<teatime>if you are only interested in the field because it is lucrative, I would encourage you to consider something else.
00:48<teatime>storge: it's a very vague term, for sure.
00:48<storge>i'm an expert in mopping bathrooms. until the next janitor is better, then i'm no longer the expert :)
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00:49<teatime>nah, you can both be experts.
00:49<storge>he's just more experty
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00:52<twb>ivan_: why do you ask?
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00:53<ivan_>because im only 13 and i have been wanting to this since i got a computer witch was at age 10 or 11
00:54<twb>ivan_: OK, it depends what kind of expert you mean :-)
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00:55<ivan_>um like u work on programs to make things easier um idk like theres so much tho
00:56<teatime>ivan_: I got into programming around the same time; the one thing I can credit with helping/teaching me the most, was using linux.
00:56<twb>ivan_: any job requires practice to become good.
00:56<twb>ivan_: it also depends on the person, and the motivation.
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00:57<twb>ivan_: do you want want to learn programming because it's interesting, or to make money?
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00:57<ivan_>on a scale of 1-10 my motivation is a high 10 and its interesting especially when i first learned the sudo apt-get command
00:58<anonymous>i am a newbie
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01:00<twb>ivan_: if you are learning because learning is fun, a good place to start is #scheme on They deal with lots of newbies, and Scheme helps learn programming without having too many concepts at once.
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01:00<storge>never let anyone flame you for being new. EVERYONE was a newbie. and i mean everyone.
01:01<twb>ivan_: that is a "math-based" approach; for an electrical engineering-based approach, you can study a CISC assembly language like MIPS or m68k.
01:01<storge>let them flame you for being an ass, that's deserved. but easily avoided. don't be an ass :)
01:01<twb>ivan_: these are not popular languages for "get paid to write programs", but they are good for learning
01:01<ivan_>k ill check it out in a bit my internet goes down for 2hrs for some reason so ya
01:02<twb>And once you understand the code concepts, it's much easier to pick up more languages
01:02<storge>once you can drive a stick shift, every automatic is in your domain
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01:04<ivan_>my dad said if i become good at this anyone will hire me is that true?
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01:05<twb>It depends :-)
01:06<twb>But if your goal is to get a job, you should study different things
01:06<twb>Paid programming is mostly horrible, and if you know about good languages, you realize it's horrible
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01:07<twb>If your goal is to get paid, Python is probably a good place to start
01:07<twb>That is what most universities do these days
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01:07<ivan_>no thats not my goal
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01:15<ivan_>whats the difference between debuin and linux i probably said that wrong
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01:17<storge>ivan_: linux is a kernel. it's also used generically as a name for operating systems using that kernel. debian is a huge software project--more than just linux--but mostly 'debian' is an operating system using the linux kernel
01:18<storge>a kernel handles the basic input/output operation of the electronic hardware.
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01:19<storge>so debian, like ubuntu, red hat, centos, arch, and others, is an operating system that all use the linux kernel
01:19<storge>beyond the kernel, people want to do different things with their operating systems, so we have all these different 'linux' distributions
01:21<ivan_>but why do we need all of these different linux distributions isn't 1 enough
01:21<storge>ivan_: i think of it like an automobile. some are trucks, some are sports cars, some are minivans, some are taxis. but all of them use internal combustion engines. some are really nice and have lots of options. some are bare and simple.
01:22<twb>Debian is a GNU/Linux distribution ("distro"). Distros take software from lots of different places ("upstream") and integrate them, so they work well together.
01:22<storge>why do we have different types of vehicles? ...different people have different uses
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01:22<storge>some people need a truck, some people need a family car, some need a motorcycle. all of them need an engine.
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01:22<ivan_>that made things so much better to understand
01:23<twb>Linux is the kernel. A kernel is software that handles boring hardware details, so that applications can just say things like "write to foo.txt" and not worry about how that actually looks on the hard disk
01:23<storge>linux is the engine, so to speak. the distro is the options: work truck, luxury car, etc
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01:24<storge>ivan_: you can start with any linux distro and with enough effort, turn it into another distro. you can buy a truck, and with enough effort and money turn it into a sports car. --or you can just buy a sports car. or just download another distro.
01:25<storge>the "why isn't there just one" thing is sort of true too--they all use linux kernel
01:25<storge>but some have power windows and bluetooth stereos and rear-view parking cameras. and some are trucks.
01:26<storge>whatever you need.
01:26<storge>and if you DONT find what you need, you can make one.
01:26<twb>But that's a pain, so most people don't
01:26<storge>but debian has the benefit of being--i think--the worlds largest software project, with literally thousands of software packages
01:27<twb>For me, the reason to use Debian is the Debian Policy, and lintian.
01:27<storge>anything i want to do, i can do in debian. if i found something that debian can't do, i'd run whatever could. but for my personal uses, debian is all i need.
01:27<twb>If packaging is done badly, I can smack the packager and tell him to fix it, or his package will be removed from Debian
01:29<storge>ivan_: here's the thing: just like with cars or tools or anything, people have their favorites. their fans. and fans can be really dedicated. even defensive. so my advice, as you're learning all these different things, is to do this: try many linux distros. use what works for you. ignore the flames you might get from the fans.
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01:29<storge>use what works for you. for your needs. not much else matters.
01:29<twb>storge: that doesn't mean that all distros are equally good, though :-)
01:29<storge>for me, that's debian. maybe it is for you too.
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01:30<storge>twb: my distro can beat up your distro!
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01:30<twb>Some distros look like this:
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01:30<twb>And you have to put a couple of bricks in the passenger seat, or it rolls over when you go around a corner
01:30<storge>my distro looks like this
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01:32<storge>ivan_: if learning is your goal, open source operating systems like linux give you the most freedom to learn. install, tinker, break, fix, learn. whatever you want. it's your freedom.
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01:33<ivan_>makes sense the best thing is i literately took notes on all of that
01:33<storge>code anything you want. if people want it, they'll use it. some of the most successful software projects do one thing and do it well, and were started by one person who had an idea. so do what you want and have fun!
01:33<storge>cool. i speak in metaphors, but you can go as far down the technical rabbit hole as you want.
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01:34<ivan_>i will
01:34<storge>if you really got into it, and wanted to make your own linux distro, there's even a project for that.
01:34<storge>i mean it's wide open, whatever you want.
01:34<ivan_>is it free
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01:35<junkmechanic>only your soul...
01:35<storge>linux distros are usually free. most are free. and really, the 'budget' you put into it is the amount of work you want to put into it and the money you want to spend on hardware. personally i run linux on all old computers. very cheap in money, a bit of "sweat equity" in my own labor.
01:36<twb>Everybody loves an over-extended car metaphor
01:36<storge>i adopt everyone's old computers when they decide to buy a new computer at christmas. i get my stuff free :)
01:36<storge>this laptop i am coming at you on now is a core2duo with 2G ram from 2007. i put an ssd in it, and i have six-second boot times. can't complain!
01:36<twb>"Linux is like a car: sometimes your hand gets caught in the timing belt"
01:37<storge>linux is like a car, sometimes you get drunk and kill a family. ...ok bad metaphor
01:37<twb>As you can see, a lot of people go on and on about how pretty their desktop wallpaper is and how quickly it boots. It doesn't bloody matter.
01:38<storge>it really doesn't matter, you're right
01:38<jm_>it does!
01:38<ivan_>i have a T42p and my dad go it out of a dumbster look brand new
01:38<storge>what matters is: does it let you get what you want to get done?
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01:39<storge>ivan_: there are even tools that let you pool resources from several slow/old computers to do jobs quicker. like if you wanted, you could compile software or the linux kernel itself on a bunch of old computers using distcc and they all pool their computer cycles to make things faster. there are so many things...
01:39<storge>...i mean it's really limited by your imagination
01:39<twb>storge: they're a huge pain for a newbie tho
01:39<storge>so go crazy
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01:40<storge>twb: sure, but i also mentioned LFS. i'm talking the long game here :
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01:40<ivan_>yes and LFS?
01:40<storge>in my opinion, debian is the best place to start
01:40<storge>it's stable, with a huge software repository. like epic huge.
01:41<twb>ivan_: LFS (Linux From Scratch) is a teaching distro -- it shows you how a distro is made
01:41<storge>and if you know debian, you know ubuntu, mint, and all the little variants --and there are many
01:41<ivan_>puppy linux :)
01:41<storge>if you know red hat, you know centos, fedora, and all those that are used a lot in commerce
01:41<twb>ivan_: if you just want to learn programming, LFS is not needed
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01:41<storge>lfs is like if you are dedicated to crawl down the rabbit hole and emerge somewhere else :)
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01:42<twb>if distros are cars, LFS is a kit car that you have to assemble yourself with a screwdriver
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01:42<storge>lfs is how you will someday release Ivan Linux. chances are you will never need to do that. so use debian, lol
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01:43<storge>LFS is like the guy in the middle of New York City who builds a boat on his roof next to his pigeon coop. so what if it will never see the ocean? HE BUILT A BOAT
01:43<R4F_Debian>Hi all, I'm running Wheezy 7 here, and have a problem, can't open youtube videos. Anyone could tell me, please the reason of this problem ?
01:43<twb>R4F_Debian: uh, what browser?
01:43<storge>R4F_Debian: can you be more specific? does it give an error? what browser?
01:44<R4F_Debian>Hi twb, HI storge, Iceweasel 38.6
01:44<twb>R4F_Debian: OK, is youtube using flash or HTML5?
01:44<storge>you might also install: apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree ...assuming you have nonfree repo in your /etc/apt/sources.list
01:44<twb>R4F_Debian: was it working before?
01:44<jm_>grab iceweasel 44 and it won't use flash crap for youtube
01:44<R4F_Debian>I'm not so sure about it, twb, but I suspect it is flash
01:44<twb>jm_: can he do that on wheezy?
01:45<storge>maybe with backports, but i doubt it
01:45<twb>not according to rmadison
01:45<jm_>twb: does offer wheezy in drop down menu so maybe
01:45<R4F_Debian>don't know twb, for I never used this version for videos online before
01:45<storge>iceweasel 44 is in stretch, 38.6 in jessie backports. don't know about wheezy, i no longer track it
01:45<twb>R4F_Debian: if you can upgrade iceweasel, or debian, that is probably the best thing
01:46<R4F_Debian>this is the only wheezy 7.2 I still have installed, the other Debian installations I have are Jessie 8.3
01:46<storge>R4F_Debian: got backports?
01:46<twb>storge: apt-get install devscripts, rmadison iceweasel --- it tells you
01:46<jm_>R4F_Debian: and try using iceweasel 44 from there
01:46<R4F_Debian>iceweasel was upgraded today, but, in this case, perhaps is better using backports to get the version 44 ?
01:47<storge>R4F_Debian: *if* that version is in backports. backports is usually for bugfixes, not new features
01:47<storge>i don't know. i hope so for your sake
01:47<R4F_Debian>no storge, not backports in this version, but I will use it
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01:47<R4F_Debian>I upgraded iceweasel to 44.0 using backports in my Jessie 8.3
01:47<storge>if 44 isn't in jessie backports, i doubt it's in wheezy, but i can't say
01:47<storge>oh it is?
01:48<R4F_Debian>storge, 44.0 is in Jessie backports
01:48<jm_>no you used mdn for v44, not backports
01:48<R4F_Debian>I used it to upgrade my iceweasel, running Jessie 8.3
01:48<storge>[root] ~ # apt-cache policy iceweasel | grep jessie -B1
01:48<storge> 38.6.1esr-1~deb8u1 990
01:48<storge> 990 jessie/updates/main i386 Packages
01:48<storge>yeah prob mdn
01:49<twb>storge: dude,
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01:49<ivan_>should i take notes on any of this
01:49<R4F_Debian>I had to include backports for iceweasel to upgrade my browser for 44.0, jm_
01:49<twb>ivan_: nah, we're helping R4F_Debian
01:50<jm_>R4F_Debian: no, it's mdn, not backports
01:50<twb>ivan_: your IRC client might support automatic logging
01:50<twb>ivan_: that way you can keep a copy of everything
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01:50<R4F_Debian>sorry jm_ so I didn't understand what i did, what is mdn, please ? And forget about my ignorance
01:50<twb>17:46 <jm_> R4F_Debian: and try using iceweasel 44 from there
01:50<ivan_>really how do i access it
01:51<twb>mdn =
01:51<storge>damn that rmadison is sweet dope
01:51<twb>ivan_: it depends on your IRC client
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01:51<R4F_Debian>oh, yes, jm_ you are right, now I remember !
01:51<twb>ivan_: you seem to be using xchat. I do not know that one. I think you should switch to hexchat. I don't know it either, though :-)
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01:52<jm_>R4F_Debian: do what I said, visit and check if it's available for wheezy
01:52<ivan_>well what won do u know
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01:52<R4F_Debian>so, I don't need to include any adress in my sources.list ?
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01:52<R4F_Debian>ok, jm_, let me see it now
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01:52<storge>twb: what would rmadison -a be for i686? i can't get results with 686, i686, x86
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01:52<twb>storge: i386, Debian has no i686
01:53<storge>there we go, thanks.
01:53<twb>storge: also unless your hardware is REALLY horrible, you should probably switch to amd64 (x86-64)
01:53<R4F_Debian>and Thanks for Great Support ! twb, jm_ storge, you are Really Great !
01:53<storge>twb: this laptop is old :)
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01:53<storge>i just compile new kernels
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01:54<jm_>core2 is amd64
01:54<storge>not all of them
01:54<R4F_Debian>it is, jm_ deb wheezy-backports iceweasel-release
01:55<jm_>heck even pentiums before core2 were amd64
01:56<ivan_>do you or can you make kernals
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01:56<jm_>don't bother compiling your kernel at the beginning, learn the basics first
01:56<storge>sure, the code is free at
01:57<storge>yes don't bother with that now
01:57<storge>i'm compiling one right now, but it's a weekly habit, hehe
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01:57<ivan_>then what should i worry about
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01:58<dpkg>Before asking in here or on the <debian-user> mailing list, you should read the Installation Guide, or if you already have Debian installed, the Debian Reference. The Debian Administrator's Handbook is also good. Ask me about <ig>, <overview>, <reference>, <refcard>, <docs>, <manuals>, <fundamentals>, <newbiedoc>, <faq>, <unix lessons>, <general cli tutorial>, <debian-handbook> (e.g. in your IRC client, type /msg dpkg reference).
01:58<storge>installing a distro, learning to navigate it. in my opinion, when i multibooted several linux distros when i started, by using the commandline a lot i think it helped me more quickly learn how they were similar and how they were different. more typing, less mouse.
01:58<jm_>see you in weeks
01:58<R4F_Debian>44.0 is being installed here
01:59<ivan_>can i install debian with terminal
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02:01<ivan_>can i
02:02<R4F_Debian>hey twb, jm_ and storge, iceweasel 44.0 is running here and open youtube easily !
02:02<ivan_>can i install debian with terminal
02:03<R4F_Debian>Great, Debian Warriors are the Best ! Thanks for Help again !
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02:04<R4F_Debian>Have to go now, Bye and Thanks again for Great Support, jm_, storge and twb !
02:04<R4F_Debian>See you soon
02:04<R4F_Debian>Debian God Bless you All !
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02:04<R4F_Debian>Bye !
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02:11<ivan_>i dont under stand
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02:15<twb>ivan_: what's the problem?
02:16<storge>ivan_: in most irc clients, commands start with a / like /join #somechannel or /msg SomeUser
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02:16<storge>and /help should show something ;)
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02:17<ivan_>um can i install debian with termianl
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02:18<twb>ivan_: I don't understand the question
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02:19<twb>ivan_: you already have another Unix install, and you want to install Debian without rebooting?
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02:28<lancelot>Hello, how do i set nomodeset permanently in GRUB?
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02:31<twb>lancelot: edit /etc/default/grubargh'
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02:32<Guest4554>hello, any one ?
02:32<lancelot>twb, just for you to know, what happened: Reinstalled Jessie, and appended nomodeset to grub with 'e' as you told me.
02:32<lancelot>And it worked.
02:32<Guest4554>what is it here
02:34<twb>Guest4554: do you need help with Debian?
02:34<lancelot>twb, i don't have a grubargh' file
02:34<jm_>it's just /etc/default/grub
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02:35<twb>it was a typo
02:36<lancelot>ok, thanks twb
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02:38<Guest4554>my first time to use this system, I am curious for anything~~
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02:38<Guest4554>thank you twb, when I need help I will ask you~
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02:42<Guest4554>are there Chinese here?
02:42<dpkg>如果您想要以中文得到 Debian 相關的協助,請加入 或 上的 #dot 頻道,連線與加入頻道的方法請參閱 IRC 程式之相關說明,或於網路上搜尋。謝謝您的合作!
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02:42<twb>In this channel, there might be Chinese, but we need to talk in English so everyone can understand :-)
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02:46<Guest4554>how to change name here? I named myself Neo before, but it's Guest4554 now...
02:47<musca>the nick was reserved already, try /nick newnick
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02:55<InUbuntu>Ok, thank musca, I get new name here...
02:56<twb>InUbuntu: if you are using Ubuntu, not Debian, you should join the Ubuntu channels
02:58<lancelot>Correct me if i'm wrong : lsmod | grep video should show the working video driver?
02:59<twb>lancelot: I don't know about that
02:59<twb>I would be looking in Xorg.0.oog
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03:00<lancelot>ok, ill look for that
03:00<rmx77>ello there
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03:00<InUbuntu>to me, they are all same...I just give up windows for a short time...
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03:00<rmx77>well i am needing to figure a few things out really
03:01<rmx77>i have gone into apper and there isnt a whole lot of programs i can install
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03:01<jm_>!which video driver
03:01<dpkg>To show the video driver used by your X server «egrep 'Load.*mod.*driv|UnloadModule' /var/log/Xorg.0.log». Also ask me about <fglrx>, <nvidia>, <which driver>, <nodriver>, <judd-hardware>.
03:01<rmx77>its mostly a clean install
03:02<lancelot>thanks jm
03:03<twb>egrep is deprecated, that should be grep -E
03:03<rmx77>the apper program doesnt even bring up a whole lot of programs and when i type in some things it doesnt find them or like gives me stuff i dont want
03:04<lancelot>noticing that, twb
03:04<rmx77>oh well
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03:14<InUbuntu>\nick Neo
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03:15<lancelot>InUbuntu: use /
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03:39<bitlan>hello, i have server with debian jessie, i try update NIC drivers ( LR-LINK LREC9802BF-2SFP+ ), so i downloaded driver from intel site (*tar.gz package), and i make everything with instruction. ethtool shows me (ex. ethtool -i eth3 ) new version (4.3.13) of driver but after reboot server i have old version (3.19.1-k)... any ideas how repair this problem?
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03:40<jm_>have you tried updating initramfs?
03:41<twb>bitlan: "updating" drivers from a .com website will usually make things worse
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03:42<bitlan>i try doo like that script but i write everthing from hand..
03:42<bitlan>and i don't download driver from sourceforge but from intel web
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03:42<dpkg>ixgbe is a Linux kernel driver supporting Intel 10 gigabit PCI Express Ethernet controllers (82598, 82598EB, 82599EB, 82599ES), introduced in Linux 2.6.24. Support for the 82599EB 10 Gigabit TN (PCI ID 8086:151c) was added at Linux 2.6.35.
03:43<aidalgol>bitlan: Use the free (libre) driver instead of the one from Intel.
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03:44<jm_>yah update initramfs after those commands too
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03:45<bitlan>aidalgol: can you write something more about that ?
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04:09<tripwireboot>I'm concerned by this tripwire report as I don't see an obvious reason for these boot files to have changed, and dpkg -S tells me they're not owned by any package:
04:09<tripwireboot>Also, /etc/samba/dhcp.conf has been added and I've not done anything with SAMBA
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04:17<twb>tripwireboot: dpkg -S will not report config files created at install time by e.g. ucf
04:17<twb>tripwireboot: I don't know offhand if samba/dhcp.conf is in that category; you'll have to study its packaging
04:18<twb>tripwireboot: what I normally do is use etckeeper and check its history. If you have trust issues, you can exfiltrate the git history each morning
04:18<tripwireboot>hi twb, thanks. I updated libc yesterday and rebooted, but I don't see why this should have changed /boot/kernel.img etc....
04:20<twb>the ramdisk gets rebuilt if the kernel or any constituents are changed
04:20<twb>I don't know offhand if that includes libc
04:21<tripwireboot>locales-all got updated too
04:21<twb>MOST of the ramdisk runs on klibc, not glibc, but you might have extra stuff like util-linux mount (pulled in by live-boot)
04:21<twb>tripwireboot: if you still trust /var/log/dpkg.log, check that
04:22<tripwireboot>Thanks, looking now. Tripwire has told me what was installed/updated by dpkg which is consistent with my memory of what I updated with apt. Just concerned that my /etc/resolv.conf has been modified, a dhcp file (empty) has appeared in /etc/samba/ and all of /boot seems to have changed
04:23<tripwireboot>the resolv.conf file has the resolvers I remember putting in it, and this could have been updated by DHCP when I rebooted
04:23<tripwireboot>haven't rebooted in 3 months but that getremoteaddr issue in glibc seemed to require one
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04:23<twb>Yes, you should reboot after that CVE patch
04:23<tripwireboot>Thought I'd do some diligence as whats the point of having tools like tripwire if you don't follow up?
04:23<twb>(You might be able to restart all services instead, but IMO it's easier to just reboot)
04:23<tripwireboot>Frankly I don't know enough
04:23<tripwireboot>I rebooted yesterday
04:24<tripwireboot>so think the resolv.conf was changed by dhcp
04:24<tripwireboot>nothing evil in it
04:24<tripwireboot>here is what changed:
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04:30<vault>Hi all!
04:30<vault>I need you help!
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04:32<vault>I need to make a ISO image to install a custom Debian in which is my deb packages. I use Live build, but can't figure how to specify lb config to use during the installation of my packages
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04:33<jm_>why would you use live image instead of creating a new regular install image with jigdo?
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04:34<vault>it is a requirement of our programmer
04:34<vault>he needs an ISO image to install
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04:35<twb>vault: try #debian-live
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04:35<jm_>jigdo can create that
04:35<vault>thnx man
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04:35<vault>I went to read man
04:36<twb>But the project lead for live-build stormed off in a huff last month, so jidgo is probably a better way to go
04:37<vault>I agree with you in this
04:38<vault>I tried to take the script with bash to tap into ideas from them
04:38<twb>preseeding of regular debian-installer installs is documented in Installation Guide
04:38<twb>I'm not sure if that's what you're after
04:38<vault>I try it
04:39<jm_>yeah preseed also allows one to do that
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04:40<vault>and the Remastersys project sank into oblivion?
04:40<twb>Huh, what? # /usr/sbin/logrotate -f /etc/logrotate.conf ==> 2016/02/19 20:39:57| aclParseIpData: Bad host/IP: ''
04:40<twb>That line's coming from squid, but why is logrotate printing squid lines to stdout/stderr
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04:43<vault><twb> are are you using squid as a transparent proxy?
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04:57<twb>Ohhhh, it's because that is coming out of "squidctl reload" or whatever
04:59<rmx77>hmmm looks like under /etc/apt/sources.list there isnt much in there like missing things
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05:00<jm_>rmx77: you were told yesterday to edit it ...
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05:01<rmx77>i looked at it and i found errors
05:03<rmx77># line commented out by installer because it failed to verify: deb jessie/updates main
05:04<rmx77>the src is the same
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05:05<rmx77>jm what should i add or remove or whatever
05:05<svetlana>could someone please give bug 814564 a higher severity level, the program is unusable ( it crashes every minute and if i don't crash it then i can't really use it )
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05:05<twb>svetlana: you can do it yourself
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05:06<svetlana>i did not figure out how to do that yet
05:06<twb>svetlana: use the bts(1) program
05:06<twb>bts package , severity 814564 important , subscribe 814564
05:06<twb>^ something like that
05:07<svetlana>it keeps trying to use sendmail, though i already configured reportbug to use an external smtp server
05:07<twb>bts doesn't know about reportbug config
05:07<twb>I recommend you use msmtp-mta for that
05:07<twb> is one I prepared earlier
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05:12<kim_>hello y'all
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05:16<twb>svetlana: you can also write the email by hand, but bts helps you
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05:24<svetlana>i do not know it seems like i should get a static ip and self-host mail and debian being a desktop OS is a myth. i am probably a bit too stressed though.
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05:30<twb>svetlana: >shrug< whatever you put into reportbug's config for mail, you can put into msmtp instead. Then it works for all programs that try to use sendmail
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05:31<twb>The example I linked to works for gmail
05:31<svetlana>sorry i think the reportbug documentation should mention using msmtp over using its own settings :) this way we kill 2 hares on one shoot so to speak
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05:32*svetlana looks to see whether it's there with her having rejected it as a 'new idea' and skipped it
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05:33<svetlana>yea I will edit the wiki to mention msmtp I think ( above the 'using gmail smtp server' section at )
05:33<jm_>rmx77: are you still here?
05:34<jm_>!jessie sources.list
05:34<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for Debian 8 "Jessie" has three lines: "deb jessie main" "deb jessie/updates main" "deb jessie-updates main". Be sure to run «aptitude update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <jessie/updates> <jessie-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list".
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05:37<twb>svetlana: yes I am surprised there is not an MSMTP article on already
05:37<twb>svetlana: it would make most sense to create that, then just link to it from the reportbug page as "or you could do this"
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05:38<twb>I always set up msmtp because things like smartd and crond use email to say "I am broken!!" and if you don't have system mail delivery, you don't find out they're broken
05:38<rmx77>but what was to be added was the other sources like the non free and other stuff
05:39<jm_>ask dpkg about non-free like it says - that means just a few extra words in those lines
05:41<svetlana>Ok, I will do it, twb. I will need to recover my wiki password and I am getting out of focus now but I took note of it so I will get to it in the coming days.
05:42<twb>svetlana: no worries, and sorry if I contributed to your stress :-)
05:42<svetlana>no, on the contrary, I think it'll help with mail quite a bit
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05:51<rmx77>ah yea
05:51<rmx77>u see it was mentioned that i was to add stuff or repos to the file
05:52<svetlana>hmm... why doesn't msmtp do ``ln -s /usr/bin/msmtp /usr/sbin/sendmail'' as a part of the installation process? I am invoking bts and it complains that file /usr/sbin/sendmail no such file or directory
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05:54<jm_>perhaps it's not compatible to sendmail
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05:55<svetlana> can put into msmtp instead. Then it works for all programs that try to
05:55<svetlana> use sendmail
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05:55<svetlana>--^ quote from the conversation above
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05:57<jm_>yes but is that true for everything real /usr/sbin/sendmail can do?
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05:59<jm_>from the README.Debian for this package: It is possible to use msmtp as a MTA (like postfix, exim, etc.) by installing
05:59<jm_>the package msmtp-mta. It will provide the basic features required to be a MTA
05:59<jm_>(/usr/{sbin,lib}/sendmail, newaliases, etc.).
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06:00<jm_>so if you would do what twb said to do it would work no?
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06:00<twb>sorry, I was asleep
06:00<twb>svetlana: you need to install msmtp-mta if you want it to be the default
06:01<twb>msmtp is the program, msmtp-mta *just* adds that symlink :-)
06:01<twb>On a current system you can also add aliases, which is useful for root emails from cron, because cron can't be configured
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06:02<twb>cron *always* sends to "root" exactly
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06:02<twb>So in /etc/msmtprc or ~/.msmtprc, you add something like "aliases /etc/aliases" then in there add "default:" or whatever
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06:03<twb>"default" being a magic word that matches all local addresses
06:03<twb>I've done that for some servers but I have forgotten to do so in the example I linked you to :-)
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07:04<kpcyrd>twb: that's not true
07:04<kpcyrd>MAIL=somebody, IIRC
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07:06<twb>kpcyrd: sorry, yes, that's the recipient, but not the sender
07:06<twb>Which in this case probably doesn't matter
07:06<kpcyrd>sender should be the user executing the cronjob
07:07<kpcyrd>which would be root unless it's in a users crontab
07:07<twb>It's hard-coded there
07:07<twb>That's the payload not the envelope, tho
07:08<twb>Sorry about my flaky memory :-)
07:08<twb>I can't remember HOW that screwed me, but it did once
07:09<twb>vixie cron is horrible, and Debian's version is now so weird that it's impossible to merge a new upstream in
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07:11<kpcyrd>systemctl list-timers :)
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07:11<twb>yes, though they're differently horrible
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07:11<twb>e.g. "Mon, Wed, 10" the first comma means "or", the second comman means "and"
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07:15<kpcyrd>hm. only used it for "exec this every x hours"
07:16<twb>Incidentally, systemd in debian 8 by default will send DISCARDs to SSDs once a day
07:16<twb>I wonder if that has any security implications
07:16<twb>(Before systemd, it was typical to manually put that in cron.daily, as a better performance compromise than mounting -o discard)
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07:19<jm_>as in the same as running fstrim would do?
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07:20<twb>yes that's what it runs
07:20<twb>ohhh, it's not systemd
07:20<twb>util-linux: /usr/share/doc/util-linux/examples/fstrim.timer
07:21<twb>I'm confused again, I think :P
07:21<twb>I was probably either looking at archlinux, or upstream, or that example, and thought it was production jessie
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07:23<twb>On Jessie, fstrim.timer is only an example. In archlinux as at 2015-04-30, it's enabled. In upstream systemd, it's not mentioned.
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07:25<jm_>yeah I would be surprised if systemd did this
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07:39<Dweller13>hi ppl. i just installed debian jessie with xfce and after reboot logon screen not always showed till i ctrl alt f8 and then back ctrl alt f7
07:40<Dweller13>where to look for problem? dmesg is clean
07:40<Dweller13>laptop vaio
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07:44<Dweller13>anyone alive?
07:45<musca>yes, all googling for "laptop vaio" to collect hardware info.
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07:46<twb>Dweller13: what display manager? gdm3?
07:46<Dweller13>cpu intel centrino with built in graphics, i think this is not hardware problem but software
07:47<Dweller13>twb: xfce
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07:47<twb>Dweller13: when you type in your username and password, are there pictures or is it black-and-white
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07:48<Dweller13>twb: blank screen but if i switch to f8 and back to f7 logon screen normally appears
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07:49<jm_>try checking your DM's log or X log
07:49<twb>Dweller13: ok do you know how to get a shell?
07:49<Dweller13>twb: same problem on KDE on debian on my laptop
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07:50<Dweller13>twb: yes
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07:51<twb>Dweller13: ok, please run aptitude search -F %p '?installed ?provides(x-display-manager)'
07:51<twb>What does it answer?
07:51<jm_>and you get the console login each time?
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07:52<Dweller13>jm_: no i get blank screen instead of X login screen
07:52<jm_>Dweller13: and if you switch to tty1?
07:53<Dweller13>jm_: shell like always..but if then switch back to tty7 i get X login screen like i shold
07:53<jm_>Dweller13: then try checking the logs
07:54<twb>jm_: I guess this will be plymouth/systemd/dm handover borking
07:54<jm_>twb: possibly yes
07:54<twb>Dweller13: please do this test
07:55*twb waits for his test lab to finish
07:55<twb>(This is what happens when I force xz -9e for the ramdisk.)
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07:55<twb>Dweller13: aptitude search -F %p '?installed ?name(plymouth)'
07:55<twb>Dweller13: does that print "plymouth", or nothing?
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07:56<jm_>I learned that pxz can save a lot of time :)
07:56<twb>jm_: not viable for ramdisks
07:56<Dweller13>twb: nothing
07:56<twb>pxz and pixz cannot produce linux-compatible LZMA2
07:56<twb>I filed bugs about it
07:57<jm_>twb: ahh so kernel's decompressor can't handle such images?
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07:57<twb>jm_: can't handle good sums
07:57<jm_>twb: but regular xz handles them just fine
07:57<Dweller13>twb: so what to do
07:57<twb>Dweller13: I don't know how to debug this
07:57<jm_>must be some limited version in the kernel - makes sense
07:58<twb>Dweller13: check logs, or try installing plymouth, or try a different x-display-manager (e.g. slim or gdm3)
07:58<twb>jm_: #808291
07:58<judd>Bug in pxz (open, upstream): «pxz ignores -Ccrc32; cannot build kernel ramdisks»; severity: normal; opened: 2015-12-18; last modified: 2015-12-18.
07:58<twb>Oh wow, the other pxz bug is great
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07:59<twb>When /tmp fills, silent data loss
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08:00<jm_>didn't know about pixz
08:00<user123123123123>hi guys
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08:00<user123123123123>i need to install smartmontools on rescatux
08:00<user123123123123>but it won't install
08:00<jm_>what is rescatux?
08:00<jm_>we only support debian here
08:01<user123123123123>a debian-based emergency distro
08:01<twb>Wow, obscure
08:01<user123123123123> here's the output
08:01<twb>user123123123123: we can't really support debian derivatives here
08:01<grove>!based on debian
08:01<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
08:02<twb>user123123123123: but you have smartctl and smartmontools backwards - swap them around
08:02<jm_>it says it's already installed
08:02<Dweller13>twb: hm, i installed plymouth, rebooted and it wirked for this time, thx. hope that helped
08:02<twb>The package is smartmontools, the program is smartctl
08:02<twb>Dweller13: ha, that's annoying
08:02<user123123123123>twb, i know that
08:02<twb>Dweller13: that basically means the packages ASSUME splash to work correctly :/
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08:03<user123123123123>twb, user@debian:~$ smartctl -- bash: smartctl: command not found
08:03-!-bdsm26 [] has quit []
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08:03<twb>user123123123123: "sudo smartctl"
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08:03<user123123123123>twb, wow, that's better. "ERROR: smartctl requires a device name as the final command-line argument."
08:04<twb>There are official Debian Live CDs. Unfortunately the rescue CD was made for Debian 7, but not for Debian 8
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08:04<user123123123123>twb, gonna try that, thx. Because rescatux lacks even "less" command
08:04<Dweller13>twb: i worked a lot with console debian but just started work with X and dont know all the bugs yet)
08:04<twb>To get a Debian 8 rescue CD, someone needs to do some easy but boring bookkeeping work- that could be you!
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08:05<user123123123123>twb, incidentally, can badblocks command be stopped without consequences?
08:05<twb>Dweller13: there are lots :P
08:05<twb>Dweller13: like, there is no security between X applications -- they can spy on one another as much as they want
08:05<user123123123123>i'm performing badblocks dev/sdaX > /tmp/badblocks
08:05<user123123123123>but I just realized i don't have that much time now
08:05<twb>user123123123123: no idea
08:06<Dweller13>twb: earlier i always installed ubuntu coz it works out of box but i dont like it so much as debian)
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08:06<user123123123123>afaic dummy x servver's instances can be used to avoid that
08:06<twb>user123123123123: there are crap workarounds, yes
08:07<twb>It's a bit like saying "if your car won't start just push it along and then jump in when you're going downhill"
08:07<Dweller13>twb: hate spying) hate windows 10 and all of this stuff
08:08<jm_>it's not the same type of spying
08:09<Dweller13>yea i know, just about all the sh*t happening in the world remembered
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08:09<user123123123123>yeah, I remember being very impressed when someone told me I could get all input from root when logged in as a different user
08:09<Dweller13>only my pc on windows coz linux cant normally run in wine .msi packagas and i need them for work
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08:10<user_123123123123>twb, well, as long as I'm already here... Could you take a look?
08:10<user_123123123123>I wonder how bad is it
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08:11<twb>user_123123123123: that data is painful to interpret
08:11<twb>user_123123123123: I recommend you simply do short & long self-tests, then read the test result
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08:18<user_123123123123>twb, can i perform self tests from live usb?
08:18<twb>smartctl -t short /dev/sdz
08:18<twb>then watch smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdz
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08:25<user_123123123123>thankfully, no errors
08:25<user_123123123123>should I also do the long test?
08:25<twb>if you suspect it, yes
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08:50<sky>Found an 10 year old computer thingy that uses a Atom N270. What cpu architecture is the Atom N270 armhf, i386 ??
08:51<sky>thx peter1138
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09:23<PaulePanter>Hi. How can I easily include the security archives in an installation created with `debootstrap`?
09:23<PaulePanter>Reading the manual I only found out how to pass in one mirror URL.
09:23<PaulePanter>debootstrap [OPTION...] SUITE TARGET [MIRROR [SCRIPT]]
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09:31<PaulePanter>I guess grml-debootstrap is the solution.
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10:40<vault>guys! Guys! I found a path in the form of a Simple-CDD
10:40<vault>begin to test
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10:53<aioplace>Speed on burning DVD Debian Linux Image - What should i put on the speed burn? 2x or 4x
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10:56<aioplace>Speed on burning DVD Debian Linux Image - What should i put on the speed burn? 2x or 4x
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11:00<grove>I haven't burned a dvd in years, and I don't think I've ever burned a dvd with a Debian image, but I guess the answer is: Whatever speed you're comfortable with, with your specific combination of burner, box and load
11:00<scootergrisen>How can i make the processor run at max speed always without having to set to max on each boot?
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11:00<vertex>i instaled a radeon package and my computer is still using CPU for video
11:00<scootergrisen>I use cpufreq-set after each boot
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11:01<grove>scootergrisen: Desn't it scale the frequency automatically if the load increases?
11:01<scootergrisen>I dont know but i want the system to remember my settins
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11:02<scootergrisen>Are there a GUI program to change the settings for debian gnome?
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11:02<scootergrisen>vertex maybe you need to set it up in your video player
11:02<scootergrisen>vertex what player are you using?
11:02<vertex>i mean im using cinnamon desktop
11:03<vertex>and it says its using software rendering
11:03<vertex>i installed radeon kernel package
11:03<scootergrisen>ok i thought you meant a video player like VLC
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11:04<vertex>i installed 2 radeon packages and one of them broke the desktop then i had to remove it from the console
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11:05<vertex>isnt there a way it can find the drivers automaticaly?
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11:06<scootergrisen>When i installed radeon driver i wrote "deb main contrib non-free" in sources.list
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11:06<vertex>what is your video card
11:06<scootergrisen>then "apt-get update" and then "apt-get install firmware-linux-nonfree libgl7-mesa-dri xserver-xorg-video-ati" and reboot
11:07<vertex>what are those
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11:07<scootergrisen>readeon Mobility Radeon HD 5650
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11:07<scootergrisen>they are commands to update that package list and installer the driver...
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11:08<scootergrisen>But im no expert i just wrote it down
11:08<vertex>i see thanks but
11:08<vertex>what is libgl7-mesa-dri
11:08<scootergrisen>I have problem with debain because the driver for radeon is not included... because its not free i guess
11:08<aioplace><grove> what is wrong with debian?
11:08<scootergrisen>i dont know what it is
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11:09<scootergrisen>Maybe you can read about it in the package manager
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11:09<vertex>hm thanks
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11:10<scootergrisen>I use jessie by the way. So maybe you have to change it if you dont use jessie
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11:11<aioplace>I use Jessie but also >grove> told me that Debian is not good.
11:11<aioplace>So why is him here?
11:13<grove>aioplace: Nothing is wrong with debian. I've just never had the need to burn a dvd image, I usually install my boxes over the net
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11:15<grove>I have never said that Debian is not good. It's the only Linux distro I've used since december 1999 (okay, for a short period I had a job that involved handling some redhat clients)
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11:16<scootergrisen>Question... how can i run a number of commands that need to use sudo before running them?
11:17<scootergrisen>Like is i have a list of multiple commandos starting with sudo that i copy paste from a text file into the commandline
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11:17<scootergrisen>If i do it the first sudo ask for password and then it does not work
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11:17<grove>scootergrisen: Can you provide an example of what you are trying?
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11:18<scootergrisen>I need to enter the password before the rest of the commands are run
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11:18<scootergrisen>Like if i want to run these two lines which i copy paste fra a text file into the terminal:
11:18<scootergrisen>sudo cpufreq-set --cpu 0 --freq 1.87Ghz
11:18<scootergrisen>sudo cpufreq-set --cpu 1 --freq 1.87Ghz
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11:19<grove>I would put those lines (without 'sudo') in a script and call that with sudo
11:19<scootergrisen>Oh ok
11:20<scootergrisen>But then i need a extra file for that. Cant i do it without having to create a new file?
11:20<aioplace>Before i use Ubuntu but i don't really like because they make a upgrade of something and after that i did not like anymore
11:20<aioplace>well i use on my own computer that's why i ask you ;)
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11:21<aioplace>Windows are much expensive and they don't deserve money for that boolsht
11:21<grove>But sudo should remember you when you stay in the same terminal, so something weird is happening - and I don't remember the details of how that is working, so I'll have to dig a little to help debugging
11:22<aioplace>How about CentOS?
11:22<grove>scootergrisen: sudo (command1; command 2) might work
11:22<aioplace>I didn't tested yet
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11:23<grove>aioplace: I just mentioned that I have no experience, so you didn't think my answer was based on experience.
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11:26<aioplace>I thaw that you know-so you are just focus on debian
11:26<aioplace>what is os original?
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11:26<aioplace>without vb
11:27<scootergrisen>sudo () dont work
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11:27<scootergrisen>But it would be silly to have it all on one line
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11:28<scootergrisen>Why do i have to type "./" before a sh file for it to run?
11:28<scootergrisen>Why cant i just type the filename for it to run
11:28<grove>Because . (current directory) isn't in your path
11:28<peter1138>because your current directory isn't part of your path.
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11:31<scootergrisen>Is there a reason why it is not?
11:32<aioplace>Because your current directory is not in your path
11:32<scootergrisen>yeah but whay is that not the default setting in debian to have current dir in path?
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11:32<grove>It's generally considered to be the safer way. If . was in your path, it would be far easier to trick you into executing stuff you don't want to execute
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11:33<scootergrisen>so like if i made a script called sudo it will call that first maby instead of the real sudo?
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11:34<aioplace>we'll su means super user and do means to execute kind of root
11:34<aioplace>That i get it!
11:34<grove>scootergrisen: See the link I just pasted - what happens also depends on where you place it in your PATH
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11:35<aioplace>That's become with OS you can make just intsall not su :D
11:36<scootergrisen>grove nice explanation on the link
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11:37<scootergrisen>su dont mean super user from what i have read
11:38<aioplace>yeah it's su
11:38<aioplace>command but it's short
11:38<scootergrisen>Does su stand for anything?
11:38<gas>What are the chances of someone being the root, going to /tmp and mistyping ls? Seems contrived.
11:39<scootergrisen>I could do that
11:39<retrospectacus>it stands for super user
11:39<scootergrisen>Hmm i thought i read that is was wrong to call it super user
11:39<retrospectacus>although it can be used to change to a non-super user
11:39<gas>Or maybe "switch user"?
11:40<aioplace>Linux Commands For Beginners: SUDO. Sudo, the one command to rule them all. It stands for “super user do!” Pronounced like “sue dough” As a Linux system administrator or power user, it's one of the most important commands in your arsenal.
11:40<scootergrisen>substitude user?
11:40<retrospectacus>switch user?
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11:42<retrospectacus>sudo bash -c "command1; command2"
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11:44<saiyuki>Why can i not switch from Run level 5 to 3 while already in GUI; system would just hang at a CLI screen with no options; no matter what keys i pressed. Tried both init 3, and systemctl isolate multitarget.user or something like that; can you not switch run levels while system in use?
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11:45<Beeblebrox-BSD>Hi. I have a problem with USB dongle bt's. İ have 2 (a4tech, logitech). Neither shows up in hciconfig and I'm pretty sure they get listed as USB but no further. lsusb shows devs &dmesg shows "product: usb device/receiver". The keyboard attached to the dongle is working, but no hci* devices under /dev yet the /dev/hidraw* are there.
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11:45<scootergrisen>sudo bash... works but can it be done with newlines after each command?
11:46<Beeblebrox-BSD>Since there's no hci0, the unhiding step is useless - gives no result
11:46<retrospectacus>scootergrisen: why??
11:46<scootergrisen>So i could have a list of commands i want to run in a text file and copy paste them to the terminal
11:47<Beeblebrox-BSD>Sorry, BT means bluetooth
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11:47<saiyuki>Did you check if they require non-free firmware in order for them to be recognized/work?
11:48<retrospectacus>scootergrisen: sudo bash yourtextfile
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11:49<retrospectacus>scootergrisen: or just use "sudo -i" to run sudo interactively (the correct way to do it; not "sudo bash" or "sudo su" which people tend to use)
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11:50<scootergrisen>Just wanted to know if i could copy past from a text file. Without having to make a new file with just those commands
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11:51<retrospectacus>scootergrisen: you can use newline instead of ; in the example I gave you
11:51<retrospectacus>sudo bash -c "echo foo
11:51<retrospectacus>> echo bar"
11:51<retrospectacus>the shell will wait for the closing "
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11:52<scootergrisen>oh yeah it works
11:53<scootergrisen>I tryed before but i thought it was an error with all the >
11:54<scootergrisen>Are there a keyboard shortcut to open a terminal in debian?
11:55<retrospectacus>scootergrisen: you can create one with your DE's keyboard shortcut control panel or w/e
11:55<retrospectacus>I use F7
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12:01<grove>With i3, $mod+enter is the default for starting a terminal
12:02<scootergrisen>F7 it is
12:02<scootergrisen>I would think people open terminal so often it should have a short cut
12:03<scootergrisen>What is i3?
12:03<scootergrisen>and what is $mod?
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12:06<grove>i3 is a window manager - $mod is the modifier you choose, the first time ou start i3, you are typically asked if you want to use your left "flying carpet"-key or you Alt-key
12:06<scootergrisen>hehe flying carpet key
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12:08<scootergrisen>I guess ctrl shift alt dont provide enough short cuts so we have to have extra keys
12:08<scootergrisen>until space bar is as wide as all the others
12:09<grove>I've never really seen any value in desktop environments, so I've decided to just use a window manager, and a colleague suggested I tried i3, and it works very well for me
12:10<scootergrisen>i dont know the difference
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12:55<dcg_lt>Hi all, does anyone know where the experts on debmirror are hanging out?
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12:55<dcg_lt>I'm having some issues with getting it to behave as expected
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12:57<aliceinwire>hello, someone know if i can get translated description of apt packages with a raspberry pi ?
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12:58<dcg_lt>aliceinwire: I *think* if you have the local language on the pi set you will see translated descriptions
12:59<aliceinwire>is what i did but nothing come out, at list in raspbian
12:59<dcg_lt>hmm what command are you using to view the descriptions
12:59<aliceinwire>maybe using debian is different i didn't try
12:59<aliceinwire>apt-cache search .
12:59<hdb2>hello, for those of you running vagrant+virtualbox on jessie, do you use packages from the repos or install from packages provided by the vendors?
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13:00<dcg_lt>aliceinwire: I'm just having a look now
13:00<aliceinwire>if i use in a normal debian distribution i can see the description summary translated
13:00<aliceinwire>but if i it in raspberry pi i cannot
13:01<dcg_lt>Hmm, it may be worth doing an apt-get update once the lang is correctly set
13:01<aliceinwire>i also tried to force apt with apt::language "ja_JP";
13:01<dcg_lt>also, how did you set the lang?
13:02<aliceinwire>getting out the raspbian
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13:02<dcg_lt>aliceinwire: I think the best way to change the lang is probably running "dpkg-reconfigure language-selector-common"
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13:03<dcg_lt>actually that is not correct
13:04<dcg_lt>use "dpkg-reconfigure locales" instead
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13:04<aliceinwire>dcg_lt: i used it
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13:04<aliceinwire>i can see the correnct language in the command help for example
13:05<aliceinwire>but not in the package summary
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13:05<dcg_lt>hmm, I would suggest you may want to ask in a Pi specific place. that seems like something is missing in the rasbian distro
13:05<aliceinwire>you have raspberry pi ?
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13:06<dcg_lt>I do, but they are all tasked and I can't play with any at the moment
13:07<aliceinwire>they are with raspbian ?
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13:08<dcg_lt>some are, others are running something very custom.
13:09<aliceinwire>you can install debian on raspberry pi
13:09<aliceinwire>normal one
13:09<aliceinwire>not raspbian
13:09<dcg_lt>probably, but you would loose some of the video support
13:10<aliceinwire>i don't mind about video support
13:10<aliceinwire>as long i can install apache2
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13:11<dcg_lt>You should be able to do that with rasbian
13:11<aliceinwire>in japanese with japanese description of package list
13:11<aliceinwire>and raspbian lookslike have no japanese summary in apt
13:11<dcg_lt>is there a specific need for apache, or would nginx or lighthttpd work for you?
13:12<aliceinwire>the main is the japanese description about the package to install is subjective
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13:15<aliceinwire>is for a demo of a package manager and i need the japanese translation :)
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13:16<dcg_lt>aliceinwire: I think you should go to and ask a question there.
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13:30<dpkg>Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on for support.
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13:39<dcg_lt>blast007: thanks for reminding me there was a freenode channel for it. I should have pointed aliceinwire at #rasbian as well as the forums on
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14:31<Guesst6741>Hello all, I just installed Debian on an Acer Aspire laptop. But there is no wireless connectivity. It lists iwlwifi as missing. How to fix/install wireless on my laptop?
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14:33<Guesst6741>ok great thanks
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14:35<retrospectacus>any questions just ask!
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14:53<geb>hi folks
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14:54<geb><Lutumn> does anybody know why are tails users banned from #debian and other rooms?
14:54<markybob>geb: because it's not supported
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14:55<dpkg>Tails (The Amnesic Incognito Live System) is a live DVD/USB <based on Debian>, with the aim of preserving privacy and anonymity. It is not supported in #debian. #tails on
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14:55<markybob>see. "not supported in #debian"
14:55<geb>It looks like tor users are banned from here according to the ban list, is that normal, or just somebody forgot to remove it after an accident ?
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14:56<EagleRock>!oftc tor
14:56<dpkg>Tor connections to most Debian channels on OFTC are blocked due to continued abuse. To participate in Debian IRC channels, you will need a stable identity even if that is an anonymous one. (1) register with nickserv «/msg nickserv help register» (2) turn on a cloak «/msg nickserv set cloak on» (3) every time you connect to IRC, make sure you identify to nickserv prior to joining channels.
14:57<markybob>geb: oh, that.
14:57<geb>ok, thanks :)
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15:18<gas>Hi, I have some issues with the sound. I have an audio player on, and also have a browser with a page that plays a short OGG sample (a chat notification). When the browser does that, the sounds mix as expected, but a nasty click occurs at the beginning and at the end of the browser's playback.
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15:19<gas>A volume indicator pops up shortly during that.
15:19<gas>If I turn the player off and leave only the browser, there is no click, but the volume indicator still pops up.
15:20<gas>I guess the system produces a click when it tries to mix the browser's sound with that of the player.
15:21<gas>But I have no idea why the volume indicator pops up when the browser plays the sample (it shows a completely different level then, by the way)
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15:26<Guesst6741>Hi all, just installed iwlwifi from non-free on my acer laptop, with dpkg -i, now I still have no internet. Do I need to set up DNS or something?
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15:27<Guesst6741>ifconfig -a displays a hardware address
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15:28<retrospectacus>which wifi method are you using?
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17:28<vertex>hi how do i install radeon drivers on debian
17:29<salad>package is xserver-xorg-video-radeon, it's probably already installed if you've installed xorg
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17:30<salad>if it's not working quite right for you you may need firmware-linux-nonfree as well
17:30<vertex>its still using software for rendering
17:30<vertex>what packages of linux-nonfree?
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17:31<salad>firmware-linux-nonfree is the package in jessie
17:32<vertex>what if it crashs
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17:32<vertex>becouse i installed some radeon package and had to unistall
17:33<salad>Hard to say, need more specific information.
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17:35<vertex>i installed fglrx-source (1:15.9-4~deb8u1) [non-free]
17:35<vertex>and had to unistall
17:36<vertex>sorry i mean
17:36<vertex>fglrx-modules-dkms (1:15.9-4~deb8u1) [non-free]
17:36<vertex>i installed fglrx-modules-dkms (1:15.9-4~deb8u1) [non-free] and it crashed
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17:36<vertex>now i got fglrx-source (1:15.9-4~deb8u1) [non-free] installed
17:36<somiaj>,v fglrx-modules-dkms
17:36<judd>Package: fglrx-modules-dkms on amd64 -- squeeze/non-free: 1:10-9-3squeeze1; squeeze-backports/non-free: 1:12-3-1~bpo60+1; wheezy/non-free: 1:12-6+point-3; wheezy-backports/non-free: 1:14.9+ga14.201-2~bpo70+1; jessie/non-free: 1:15.9-4~deb8u1; jessie-backports/non-free: 1:15.12-2~bpo8+1; sid/non-free: 1:15.12-2
17:37<vertex>its for jessie
17:37<salad>I wouldn't know sorry, I stopped bothering with fglrx a while back. Will have to wait for someone else knows.
17:37<somiaj>vertex: you will have to provide more info on why it crashed.
17:37<vertex>i have no idea somiaj
17:37<somiaj>i.e. what actuall went wrong. What was the error.
17:37<vertex>it just didnt load desktop
17:37<somiaj>so look at the /var/log/Xorg.0.log
17:38<vertex>i got a "modesetting radeon" error
17:38<somiaj>did you have the linux-headers for your kernel installed? This is required (but not automaticlaly installed) for the module to compile
17:38<somiaj>sounds like the driver isn't loaded or wasn't built because of missing the headers
17:38<salad>anyone got any ideas why alsamixer would stop working?
17:39<salad>like, I go in, select the right soundcard, audio normally comes out at this stage, but it doesn't
17:39<salad>I close it and reopen it, and it's gone back to the default sound card. it isn't saving anything either.
17:39<somiaj>salad: are you using pulseaudio?
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17:39<salad>somiaj: nope
17:40<somiaj>well defalut sound card is set in .asoundrc (or /etc/asoundrc)
17:40<somiaj>!alsa check-list
17:40<salad>even when I set it manually though, with alsamixer open, nothing
17:40<somiaj>!alsa checklist
17:40<dpkg>1) add yourself to the 'audio' group (log out & in again) 2) unmute and raise channels w/ alsamixer (also try muting some & toggle jack sense if available) 3) <pulseaudio> or other daemon stopped? 4) speakers on? 5) does "aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav" work for root? 6) purge any installed <oss4> packages to remove ALSA blacklist. See also <list alsa users>, <alsa firmware>.
17:41<salad>the system is dual booting debian & mint, the sound card still works in mint.
17:42<salad>user is in the audio group. have tried mucking around with all the channel settings in alsamixer, even replicating what's in mint. speakers and card work fine in mint, so I do have the speakers connected properly. I have purged alsa-base & alsa-utils, rebooted, reinstalled, rebooted.
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17:43<salad>it was working on debian when I first installed, then I installed a bunch of packages (virtualbox, libreoffice, desktop applications) and did some other stuff and now it's doing this. :(
17:43<salad>what are these OSS4 packages the checklist is talking about?
17:45<Inpetto>Hi, anyone can tell me how to disable my On-Screen keyboard in debian?
17:46<retrospectacus>Inpetto: what onscreen keyboard?
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17:50<dpkg>[oss4] Open Sound System is a cross-platform set of device drivers providing a standard audio API for Unix systems. OSS/Free was in the 2.2 and 2.4 series of Linux kernels, with OSS/Linux remaining proprietary, replaced by <ALSA> in Linux 2.6. Open Sound System v4.0 was made available under the GPLv2 in July 2007, this is packaged since Debian 6.0 "Squeeze". #oss on
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17:55<Inpetto>retrospectacus : i have some kind of onboard screenboard on my screen somehow and i want to get it disabled
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18:03<Inpetto>sec, i will give you a example of a screen
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18:08<retrospectacus>Inpetto: not sure what you mean exactly; never seen one, but probably click the X and/or or uninstall it
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18:10<retrospectacus>apt-get purge florence
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18:11<Inpetto>it isnt florence
18:12<retrospectacus>how do you figure
18:13<Inpetto>have tryed that already
18:13<musca>,info florence
18:13<judd>Package florence (web, optional) in jessie/amd64: extensible and scalable virtual keyboard for X. Version: 0.6.2-2; Size: 634.5k; Installed: 1520k; Homepage:; Screenshot:
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18:14<itd>Inpetto: have you tried to turn it off and on again? ;) (after the purge)
18:15<itd>maybe it is just still running?
18:15<retrospectacus>did it purge successfully?
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18:22<Inpetto>i can not turn it on or off
18:22<Inpetto>or at least i dont know how
18:22<retrospectacus>we told you how. What's the issue?
18:22<itd>Inpetto: I am sorry, I meant to ask, if you tried to log out and relogin.
18:23<Inpetto>it pops up when i am going to type something
18:23<Inpetto>yes i have
18:24<itd>Inpetto: and the "apt-get purge florence" terminated without an error?
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18:26<Inpetto>like i did say, florence wasn't installed,
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18:30<retrospectacus>try it again. The window says "florence"
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18:30<itd>Inpetto: Can you open and typ into a terminal?
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18:30<Inpetto>its a onscreen keyboard from universal access
18:31<Inpetto>but universal access stopt responding
18:31<Inpetto>can not configure it anymore
18:31<Inpetto>i am already in my terminal
18:31<itd>Inpetto: try to execute: xprop | grep PID
18:31<itd>Inpetto: then click on the window
18:32<itd>Inpetto: then the command promp should come back. Did the command print anything in the terminal?
18:34<Inpetto>no it did not print anything
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18:35<itd>Inpetto: hm, okay
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18:36<Inpetto>itd : how can i reconfigure my universal access?
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18:43<retrospectacus>Inpetto: when did you install debian? What is "universal access" and why is it installed?
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18:45<itd>Inpetto: In my opinion the Gnome On Screen Keyboard ( looks very similar. Maybe it is not florence after all?
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18:47<Inpetto>it is from universal access
18:48<Inpetto>but that configuration is broke,
18:48<Inpetto>can not change anything there,
18:48<itd>Inpetto: universal access as in accessibility settings? (larger fonts, ...)
18:50<Arcade>quick question: If I want to use pppoeconf I assume the only way it will work is if its an Ethernet connection coming from a modem?
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18:53<itd>Inpetto: you could try to install the dconf-editor and search for the right settings there. (sorry, not a gnome user.)
18:56<itd>Inpetto: somewhere around desktop -> gnome -> interface -> accessibility or desktop -> gnome -> applications -> ... maybe
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18:57<musca>Arcade: the OE in pppoe refers to "Over Ethernet"
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18:58<musca>Arcade: you may now ask your real question ...
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18:59<Arcade>I see that musca. I did not know if they made a modem card connecting it directly into the PC
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19:01<Arcade>only way I see is using an ADSL modem with it
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19:02<retrospectacus>pppoe is not only for DSL; It can be used for other purposes like VPNs and whatnot iirc. You do not *need* a DSL modem to use pppoe, by any means
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19:05<Arcade>retrospectacus, I will I think. I have the old classic phone line setup not ethernet * :)
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19:08<retrospectacus>no Ethernet at all?
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19:08<Arcade>no when they installed dsl in our home they used phone line ports
19:09<Arcade>data & phone (shared)
19:09<retrospectacus>sure but a DSL modem usually provides an Ethernet port so you can add a router
19:09<Arcade>Yeah I will be doing it that way*
19:09<retrospectacus>or is a modem-router combination
19:10<retrospectacus>then you will have Ethernet
19:10<retrospectacus>sorry I still don't know what your original question was asking about
19:11<retrospectacus>what makes you think you'd need pppoe?
19:11<Arcade>I just did not know if they made some thing that does it without the modem in place
19:11<retrospectacus>does what
19:12<Arcade>rather than: ISP > modem > PC just ISP > PC
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19:13<Arcade>I can see that will never work because the jack I have are shared
19:13<retrospectacus>I don't think so. In the old days PCs had dialup modems in them. I never heard of there being a DSL modem built in
19:14<abrotman>maybe take a picture?
19:14<abrotman>though, I guess from the back plate, it wouldn't be distinguishable ..
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20:45<Nomeji>Hi everyone, I'm having trouble creating a service for systemd. It's pretty simple service wich is only execting a script I made. Here's how it looks like :
20:46<Nomeji>I'm running the service with systemd --user
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20:47<Nomeji>I'm getting this error : Reason: No such file or directory
20:48<Nomeji>and code=exited, status=1/FAILURE if I remove Type=forking option
20:48<Nomeji>any idea?
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21:52<q__>where can i get all documentation for my hardware? linux sucks in support(
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21:53<harmony>have you tried google, q____??
21:54<xjja>I am having problems with Shrew Soft VPN client (package name is 'ike' in debian). It connects, saying "tunnel enabled" but I have no internet connectivity through it.
21:55<xjja>This is on debian jessie, all updates applied
21:56<q__>harmony, i prefer do not use bro, i try this irc network hardware channels, they say it's company secret(
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21:57<q__>harmony, schematic must have)
21:57<musca>!whats my hardware
21:57<dpkg>You can use lspci, lsusb, lsscsi, lspcmcia, lshal, hwinfo, dmidecode, and/or lshw, or even dmesg to find out what kind of hardware your machine might have, or you could crack the lid and look inside ... oooh, shiny! If you install lshw, run "lshw -html > myhardware.html" as root and you'll have a nice HTML summation. See also <myram>, <driver locator>.
21:57<harmony>and that's the reason most big businesses hate linux..........
21:58-!-dhcppc3 [~dhcppc3@] has joined #debian
21:58<harmony>yup, what dpkg said
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21:59<musca>q__: you could even ask your real question
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22:00<musca>q__: what problem do you work on?
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22:01<q__>musca head is acheing(
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22:01<q__>sorry for my eng
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22:03<q__>see you next time
22:03-!-q__ [~q@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:03<musca>q__: ok, gn8
22:04-!-muka [~muka@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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22:06<q__>well i say, but talks is cheap;-)
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22:07<q__>they cut off pro mode in packet capturing by wireshark
22:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 750] by debhelper
22:08<q__>that's why i cannot discover local ipv6 routers and other hardware
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22:12<xjja>can somebody point me in the right direction? Where can I get help with package 'ike' not working?
22:17-!-muka [~muka@] has joined #debian
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22:21<xjja>I think I am suffering from this bug, which has not been fixed in debian since 2008
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22:44<q__>how to install full system? all packages?
22:45<q__>buzzmachine is my interest)
22:45<q__>what's this?
22:48<q__>hello deiz, what are you looking for?
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22:57<Stevie-O>okay I'moh good grief
22:57<Stevie-O>just spent an hour trying to track down a problem
22:57<Stevie-O>short version: jessie's ca-certificates is out of date
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23:00<q__>stevie-0, howdoyoudo!
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23:08<dooglus>I'm trying to install debian on a new laptop
23:08<dooglus>it had Windows of some kind of it before
23:08<dooglus>I booted from a usb stick, and it came straight up with the debian boot menu, but I had to boot 4 times before the keyboard would work
23:09<dooglus>then it got as far as "creating ext2 file sysem for /boot in partition #1 of SCSI 1 (0, 0, 0) (sda)...
23:09<dooglus>and then it told me it had failed
23:09-!-q__ [~q@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:09<dooglus>so I started again from the beginning, and now it's at that same "creating ext2..." bit
23:10<dooglus>I thought both times I asked it to put everything in a single partition (best for beginners), so idk why it keeps trying to make /boot in a separate partition, or why it keeps failing
23:11<dooglus>"Failed to create a file system" "The ext2 file system creation in partition #1 of SCSI1 (0,0,0) (sda) failed."
23:11<dooglus>that's what it just said
23:11<dooglus>is that hdd bad? it's a new laptop
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---Logclosed Sat Feb 20 00:00:05 2016