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#debian IRC Logs for 2016-02-22

---Logopened Mon Feb 22 00:00:05 2016
---Daychanged Mon Feb 22 2016
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00:16<lancelot>Hello. I can connect to wifi, but i have no internet connection. I was messing around connecting via command line.And now network manager doesn't connect to internet.
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00:42<lancelot>Ok, i installed nvidia drivers and i'm having logging issues as stated in the wiki : I can't find any solution.
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00:45<JohnMH>then don't... install nvidia drivers
00:45<JohnMH>try the free alternatives :)
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00:48<lancelot>I noticed better quality with nvidia.
00:48<lancelot>Do you know where to find a solution for that logging problem? I can't find it in the wiki.
00:49<JohnMH>nvidia cheats, by not implementing required extensions
00:49<lancelot>Ok, i just wonder if there is some solution, and where is it.
00:49<JohnMH>you should really stay away from nvidia drivers, if you like having a stable system
00:50<lancelot>I never had issues in past debian editions.Now with jessie started this.
00:50<JohnMH>Were you using this same version of nvidia kernel module before?
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00:51<lancelot>No, because the wiki instructs to use a new driver with Jessie.
00:51<jm_>there's also a newer version available via bpo that you could try
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00:52<lancelot>jm, do you know if it has the logging issue solved?
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00:53<jm_>lancelot: no
00:53<lancelot>ok, where can i find it?
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00:53<dpkg> (formerly is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <jessie backports>) and oldstable (<wheezy backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read See also <bdo kernel> <bdo mirrors> <bdo contents> <bdo list> <bdo bugs> <bdo xorg> <bdo NEW>.
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00:53<lancelot>ah, ok, backports
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00:56<mark_otaris>lancelot: the nvidia drivers have all sorts of issues, so while the performance might be better it's best to stay away from them
00:56<lancelot>I can't find in the wiki how to revert to nouveau.
00:57<mark_otaris>What steps did you follow to install the nVidia driver?
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00:57<lancelot>the wiki ones, just a second
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00:57<lancelot>This :
00:59<mark_otaris>lancelot: You should be able to simply remove the packages installed and comment line 'deb jessie main contrib non-free' in /etc/apt/sources.list
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01:00<mark_otaris>commenting being done by adding '#' at the start of the line
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01:00<lancelot>Sorry, but that wouldn't affect the repo in its totality?
01:01<jm_>you probably have a file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d telling it yo use the nvidia driver, comment it out, check if you have any blacklists for nouveau and disable that too, rebuild initramfs for good measure and reboot
01:01<lancelot>How do i rebuild initramfs?
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01:02<jm_>man update-initramfs
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01:02<lancelot>The thing is, the quality in nouveau is so bad it might damage my eyes in the longterm...I wish there was some way to improve it.
01:03<JohnMH>sorry, what?
01:03<JohnMH>lancelot: What do you mean?
01:04<lancelot>That i switched to nvidia because the nouveau driver displays bad quality graphics, that might damage my eyes.
01:04<JohnMH>displays bad graphics?
01:04<mark_otaris>well I have strong doubt about damaging your eyes
01:04<JohnMH>What do you mean by that?
01:04<lancelot>they are not terrible, but i think in the long run the might be harmful
01:04<JohnMH>Does it download random graphics from the internet, and show them instead of what you expect?
01:04<lancelot>I mean, the graphics definition is poor.
01:05<JohnMH>lancelot: What DE do you use?
01:05<lancelot>Gnome 3
01:05<JohnMH>Then that shouldn't be the case
01:05<JohnMH>Are you experiencing this only in certain programs?
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01:05<lancelot>No, everywhere.
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01:06<JohnMH>I suggest you update your nouveau modules
01:06<lancelot>Its not that the graphics are faulty, but the definition is, maybe i should tweak something.
01:06<lancelot>ok, first i have to restore nouveau.
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01:07<lancelot>Yes, Default. Should i apt-get purge nvidia*?
01:07<lancelot>Yes, Default. Should i apt-get purge nvidia*?
01:07<mark_otaris>lancelot: Commenting that line would remove all the repos if you don't have another line with main, yes
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01:07<lancelot>I would like to have the non-free repo nevertheless.
01:07<mark_otaris>(which is probably the case, so you should remove 'contrib' and 'non-free' instead, unless you have other packages from those sections)
01:08<mark_otaris>then you can leave sources.list as it is
01:08<mark_otaris>You don't need to purge the nvidia package
01:08<jm_>you don't need to purge nvidia stuff
01:08<mark_otaris>You can just apt remove it
01:08<lancelot>ill remove it then
01:08<jm_>or remove it either
01:08<mark_otaris>and yes, what jm_ just said
01:08<lancelot>is it apt-get remove nvidia*?
01:08<mark_otaris>You can also keep it installed but modify the config
01:09<mark_otaris>though I'm fairly confident removing the package would do that
01:09<lancelot>ok, thats better, i'll try modifying the xorg config
01:09<mark_otaris>lancelot: apt-get or apt, both work
01:09<lancelot>which line should i comment?
01:09<JohnMH>then it'll autoconfig!!
01:10<JohnMH>that's actually true, sarcasm aside
01:10<mark_otaris>lancelot: well, normally there'll be many config files
01:10<mark_otaris>in /etc/X11
01:10<lancelot>cant i just rm the file?
01:11<mark_otaris>What do you see in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/?
01:11<lancelot>just a sec
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01:11<lancelot>i don't have that directory
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01:12<JohnMH>just run `apt-get purge nvidia*`
01:12<JohnMH>and be done with it
01:12<mark_otaris>I do, that's strange
01:13<jm_>maybe you have it in xorg.conf then
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01:13<mark_otaris>jm_: What do you see in /etc/X11?
01:13<lancelot>xorg.conf is a file, and i also have xorg.conf.nvidia.xconfig-original
01:13<JohnMH>mark_otaris: What distro are you currently on?
01:13<JohnMH>lancelot: Perfect!
01:13<mark_otaris>Yes, if it's .conf it's a file. But .conf.d would be a folder
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01:13<jm_>mark_otaris: 17 files, 1 symlink and 15 dirs ;)
01:13<lancelot>theres no folder in X11
01:14<lancelot>named xorg.conf.d
01:14<mark_otaris>jm_: oh, meant to mention lancelot
01:15<mark_otaris>JohnMH: Fedora, was looking in my Debian systemd-nspawn container
01:15<mark_otaris>not exactly a standard debian install though
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01:16<lancelot>Ok, still i don't know what xorg conf file or line should i comment.
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01:18<lancelot>In xorg.conf i found the Section "device, and driver nvidia, i'll try to comment that.
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01:22<jmcnaught>lancelot: you should also look in /etc/modprobe.d to see if there is a file that blacklists the nouveau module
01:23<lancelot>just checking that
01:24<lancelot>i do have nvidia-blacklists-nouveau.conf
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01:26<JohnMH>nvidia is fucking evil
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01:27<mark_otaris>JohnMH: ?!?
01:28<lancelot>ok, updated initramfs, should i reboot?
01:28<lancelot>and commented blacklist in nvidia-blacklists...
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01:30<jm_>you need to rebuild initramfs after changing blacklists
01:30<lancelot>i did update-initramfs -u , now rebooted
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01:31<lancelot>ok, i just have blinking cursor
01:31<lancelot>I'll ctrl alt f1
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01:32<lancelot>logged in, startx output : EE fatal error server error no screens found
01:33<lancelot>funny, no gui
01:33<JohnMH>yeah, I'll help you in a minute, if mark_otaris doesn't
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01:33<jm_>check dmesg/x logfile
01:34<lancelot>no such file or dir
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01:39<jmcnaught>lancelot: /var/log/Xorg.0.log was not found?
01:39<lancelot>let me see
01:40<lancelot>i do have that file
01:40<jmcnaught>lancelot: can you put the file on ?
01:41<lancelot>I don't have internet connection on that computer.
01:41<lancelot>im watching the log file , it shows some WW warnings
01:42<jmcnaught>lancelot: look for the EE errors
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01:45<lancelot>first one : EE failed to load module nv , second, EE drm kms not enabled, third, ee open /dev/fb0 no such file or dir, fourth ee, screen 0 deleted because of no matching config section, three times the same error, and then ee device detected but none match those in the config file, fifht EE no screens found, sixth EE please alsho check lo /var/log/ xor...etc. seventh, EE server terminated with error 1 closing log file
01:51<jmcnaught>lancelot: i don't use nvidia, so i'm not sure, but i think that "nv" is the proprietary driver in this context, and it should be "nouveau". could you double check that your /etc/X11/xorg.conf file is empty or absent and try again?
01:52<lancelot>ill check again
01:52<jm_>naah, nvidia is the proprietary one
01:52<JohnMH>nv is the proprietary driver
01:52<lancelot>the issue here is that i want to go back to nouveau
01:52<jm_>nv is the free driver
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01:53<lancelot>var log > EE failed to load module nv (module does not exist, 0)
01:53<JohnMH>did you install the-
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01:53<lancelot>ok, nv is confusing
01:53<JohnMH>jm_: Issue starts here
01:53<JohnMH>lancelot doesn't have internet on that machine
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01:54<JohnMH>so can't install the free driver, which aren't being found
01:54<JohnMH>of course the solution is a temporary media
01:54<JohnMH>to install the .deb files from
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01:54<JohnMH>lancelot: you can use dkpg -i to install packages that you download, if that helps
01:55<jm_>nv was the old stuff anyway, he should use nouveau_drv from xserver-xorg-video-nouveau
01:55<lancelot>maybe i cand download them with this machine, and use a pendrive to put it in the problem machine
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01:55<lancelot>is it possible?
01:56<jm_>you should first look at KMS stuff - that should work even without the nouveau X driver
01:56<JohnMH>lancelot: If you download the .deb packages from the website, you can install them with dpkg -i
01:56<lancelot>I don't know what to do with kms, dont know what it is.
01:56<JohnMH>if necessary
01:56<lancelot>ok, johnmg
01:57<lancelot>i'll try that
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02:09<lancelot>Installed the xserver nouveau deb package.Should I reboot now?
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02:11<lancelot>Rebooted after the package install, same problem, only a dash.
02:12<lancelot>ctrl alt F1 not working
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02:12<lancelot>Its getting worse.
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02:15<lancelot>No grub menu.No recovery option.
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02:19<jm_>recovery is under the Advanced options submenu
02:21<lancelot>i dont have the grub menu
02:21<lancelot>it boot bios splash, and thats it
02:21<lancelot>black screen with cursor
02:21<lancelot>no ctrl alt f1 no alt f2 f6
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02:24<rmx77>hello there
02:24<rmx77>whats up
02:24<rmx77>whats up
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02:25<lancelot>struggling with a computer
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02:25<rmx77>oh dear
02:25<rmx77>i still have things to do with this thinkpad and debian
02:26<lancelot>go for it
02:26<rmx77>well its not easy stuff sadly
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02:26<lancelot>i bet
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02:36<rmx77>the thing is i have to add repos and then i have to fix the video card firmware not starting or being disabled issue
02:36<lancelot>im doing just that, trying to understan xorg conf, how to enable nouveau
02:38<rmx77>well i have an older thinkpad t60 and i have the full dock for it but when it boots it says something bout firmware for the video card and then it says it disabled the gpu exceleration
02:38<lancelot>i am total noob, i couldnt help you
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02:39<lancelot>hello twb
02:39<rmx77>ello twb
02:39<twb>What's the difference between "md: resync of RAID array md1" and "data-check of RAID array md0"
02:39<rmx77>i am sorta a new too
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02:39<twb>Is it related to the presence of a write-intent bitmap?
02:39<lancelot>trying things in a thinkpad, thats corageous
02:39<rmx77>well i have the lenovo takeover thinkpad
02:40<rmx77>i also have the full dock for it
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02:41<jmcnaught>rmx77: what does the error say exactly?
02:41<twb>Based on the uptime count in my one resync instance, I think resync is recovering from a dirty array that was killed
02:41<rmx77>its something bout firmware for the card it says its an r500 series or somewhere in it
02:41<twb>==> kernel: [ 1.944047] md: resync of RAID array md1
02:42<rmx77>it does tell me it disabled the gpu exceleration
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02:42<rmx77>also when i dock the thinkpad it doesnt give me the option for screen brightness
02:43<twb>rmx77: r500 sounds like an ATI Radeon chipset
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02:43<twb>rmx77: try "man radeon"
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02:43<jmcnaught>rmx77: sounds like you need to install the firmware-linux-nonfree package using these instructions:
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02:43<rmx77>well hmm
02:44<twb>The screen brightness issue could be a range of things
02:44<twb>Do you have anything in /sys/class/backlight/ ?
02:44<rmx77>there should be since the backlight brightness works off the dock
02:45<twb>are you trying to use both onboard and external screens, while docked?
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02:45<rmx77>no just the laptop screen
02:45<twb>maybe your GUI is assuming you don't use the onboard screen when docked
02:46<rmx77>well hmm its set in the bios to use the laptop screen
02:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 735] by debhelper
02:48<rmx77>cause if it was using an external it would either have the laptop screen off or that the laptop screen would show something different
02:49<jm_>his problem is he doesn't have non-free/contrib in sources.list, at least that was the case last week
02:49<twb>OK then I'll stop caring
02:50<rmx77>well yea
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02:50<rmx77>that too
02:50<rmx77>i may as well just give up
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02:51<rmx77>but yea
02:52<twb>rmx77: you either have to give up OR use the non-free software
02:52<rmx77>but getting repos for everything is a pain
02:53<jm_>the issue is not in unwillingnes to use non-free but unwillingnes to edit text files using terminal etc.
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02:53<twb>Yeah I'm not gonna fly around to your house to edit text files for you
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02:54<JohnMH>nano is pretty easy for newbies
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02:54<twb>maxim: hi, do you have a support question?
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02:54<maxim>just remember those little carrot(arrows) mean ctrl
02:55<lancelot>I'm still trying to configure X server with the nouveau driver.
02:55<maxim>twb Heh, nah. Just testing out Quassel. I can help, though.
02:55<twb>lancelot: isn't nouveau used by default?
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02:55<lancelot>lsmod | grep video show 1 nouveau
02:55<lancelot>im trying to switch back from nvidia
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02:56<lancelot>but x server doesnt start
02:56<twb>No idea about that, sorry
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02:56<lancelot>ok, thanks
02:56<twb>I guess try moving xorg.conf.d/*
02:56<lancelot>move it where?
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02:56<twb>I assume nvidia setup code writes an xorg.conf snippet to say "use me"; moving it away will cause xorg to use its defaults
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02:57<lancelot>i shall remove any nvidia conf file, then
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03:01<twb>Anybody know what these are? "perf interrupt took too long (2510 > 2500), lowering kernel.perf_event_max_sample_rate to 50000"
03:01<twb>IIRC they're harmless, but I'd like to add a comment to my whitelist saying *why* they're harmles
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03:13<samman>iam from indonesia
03:13<twb>samman: welcome! Do you need help?
03:14<samman>no i need help :)
03:14<samman>i use linux mint ..
03:15<twb>!tell samman about mint
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03:15<samman>its cool no bugs on linux mint .. and have i happy
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03:43<samman>disini yang paling rame
03:44<samman>ga ada yg ngomong
03:44<dpkg>The language of #debian is English. We will do our best to help you regardless of your level of English but you might be more comfortable asking for help in your own language. Ask me about your language code for more information, for example /msg dpkg br ; /msg dpkg pt ; /msg dpkg es ; /msg dpkg fr ; /msg dpkg de
03:44<samman>ok .. i from in indonesia
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03:46<samman>hai mr_flea
03:46<jm_>samman: this is not a chat channel
03:46<twb>dpkg: tell samman -about chat
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03:47<samman>oke //
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04:15<ThomasKeller>I am using Chromium browser on Wheezy
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04:15<ThomasKeller>I notice, there are no security updates for Chromium for Wheezy
04:15<ThomasKeller>I still have version 37.0
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04:21<twb>ThomasKeller: that's because newer chromium can't be compiled using wheezy's compiler
04:21<twb>ThomasKeller: there was an announcement about it a while back on d-s-a
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04:24<ThomasKeller>twb: so there is no way to have newer chromium on wheezy ?
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04:25<twb>welcome to the wonderful world of perverse incentives :/
04:26<twb>In particular, you might want to read and
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04:28<anonymous>ay body here ?
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04:49<lancelot>How do i load the nouveau driver in the kernel?
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04:50<jm_>lancelot: modprobe nouveau
04:50<jm_>but really, it should happen automatically
04:51<lancelot>lmbkmod error
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04:52<lancelot>I spent hours trying to configure xorg, and lspci -k shows that nvidia driver (even though i purged apt nvidia) is still loaded
04:52<lancelot>I don't know how to load nouveau properly.
04:53<towo^work>lancelot, how you have purged the nvidia packages?
04:53<tellendil>Hey, I've got a problem with lb build. I'm unable to make it use a proxy for every .deb download. Anyone has a clu on how to do this ?
04:54<jm_>so maybe that's why nouveau doesn't work, remove the nvidia kernel module
04:54<lancelot>how do i remove it?
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04:54<lancelot>I already did apt-get purge nvidia*
04:54<jm_> find /lib/modules|grep nvidia
04:55<lancelot>i found the files, what do i do?
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04:55<jm_>remove the ones built from nvidia-kernel-dkms
04:56<lancelot>do i have to nano the files to find nvidia-kernel-dkms?
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04:57<jm_>no, it should be visible from the dir it's in AFAIR
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05:00<lancelot>jm_ should i just rm the files ?
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05:00<lancelot>They are in an ethernet dir, by the way
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05:00<jm_>lancelot: well if you are sure they are from nvidia-kernel-dkms then rm them, else move them somewhere else, say /var/tmp
05:00<jm_>no not those
05:00<lancelot>towo^work, i already purged
05:01<jm_>make sure dpkg -S /path/to/file does not list it belonging to any package!
05:01<lancelot>ok, those are the only nvidia files i found
05:01<jm_>did you rebuild initramfs after purging nvidia stuff?
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05:01<jm_>how is the nvidia kernel module still loaded then?
05:01<lancelot>i tell you what i do
05:02<jm_>i'll be back in some 35min
05:02<lancelot>lspci -k shows for my vga compatible controller, Kernel driver in use : nvidia.
05:02<lancelot>lsmod | grep video shows nouveau 1
05:04<lancelot>Just did apt-get autoremove.
05:06<lancelot>Maybe there is some blacklist that i still have to remove...
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05:15<raboof>I'd like to lock my screen on suspend. I added a script to /etc/apm/event.d but it doesn't seem to be ran when I suspend (I suspend by closing the lid of my laptop)
05:15<raboof>any ideas what to try next?
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05:31<jm_>lancelot: then check if your initramfs still includes it
05:33<jm_>in general it's copy initrd image to /tmp, uncompress it then cpio -t, but these days it can be concatenated using more than one part so you may need a loop around it
05:34<jm_>(around cpio that is)
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05:34<lancelot>find output that i have in usr/src/linux headers, and /run/initramfs
05:34<lancelot>are those right?
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05:38<jm_>no, initrd image is /boot/initrd-kernelver.img
05:38<jm_>copy that and do the steps mentioned above
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05:44<lancelot>ok, im burned out. I didnt find initramfs files, just two directories.
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05:46<lancelot>This is pointless, even with the fresh install using nouveau i couldnt start X directly.
05:47<jm_>that usually happened to me with too old kernels, but lately it works ok on my nvidia systems
05:48<lancelot>thats enough for me for today, spent too many days and hours today
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05:48<lancelot>I shall install the non-free isos and finish this.
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05:50<star_prone>I'm trying to install php 7 on debian 7.6 following the these instructions:
05:50<star_prone>after apt-get update
05:50<star_prone>I still cannot find php7
05:50<jm_>note that we do not support dotdeb packages here
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05:59<EmleyMoor>I have an odd obsolete package I still seem to need... gcc-5-base... on one of my machines, because libstdc++6 is depending on it - apt is in turn one of the things depending on that. Why is this?
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06:00<themill>gcc-5-base shouldn't be obsolete
06:00<EmleyMoor>themill: Well, it seems to be...
06:01<themill>did you try downgrading to stable? or has an apt update failed in a strange way?
06:01<EmleyMoor>5.1.1-9 installed, none available. Not a downgrade. This machine has never been past jessie
06:02<themill>gcc-5-base isn't in jessie
06:02<themill>(no gcc 5 stuff is in jessie)
06:03<EmleyMoor>So why have I got this oddity?
06:04<themill>You must have grabbed something from stretch/sid at some stage
06:04<themill>or tried backporting a pile of gcc-5
06:05<EmleyMoor>What version of libstdc++6 should be in jessie?
06:05<themill>,v libstdc++6 jessie
06:05<judd>Package: libstdc++6 on amd64 -- jessie: 4.9.2-10
06:06<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... looks like I have got a "forward version" issue
06:06<EmleyMoor>It will happily downgrade
06:07<EmleyMoor>Unless this somehow relates to something I tried to backport as part of my xmpp server improvements, I can't see how I got to that state
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06:10<themill>backporting shouldn't bring in newer packages like this; it would require changing the sources.list or dpkg -i.
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06:11<themill>Do you have etckeeper on the machine? That can help. (also apt's logs)
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06:32<Lyze-of-Kiel>Hey guys, I am running dual boot debian 8.3 (install from fresh) & Windows 10, running XFCE on Thinkpad X1. After the laptop is power off with 90% battery, I release that the battery drop to 80% when I next run it. Is there way I can check why there is an drop to 10%? FYI: I didn't face thise issues when running debian 8.2.
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06:32<Lyze-of-Kiel>Hope you guys can understand my situation
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07:38<Walex>Lyze-of-Kiel: battery reporting is rather approximate
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07:41<star_prone>@jm_ I know you don't :)
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07:42<star_prone>is there a different channel where I can ask or is there a different way of installing php7 without dotdeb
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07:46<jm_>star_prone: perhaps «/msg dpkg dotdeb» will help with getting assistance
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07:55<star_prone>msg dpkg dotdeb
07:55<star_prone>jm_: ok, cool
07:56<jm_>no problem
07:56<star_prone>other options for installing php7 on debian 7.6?
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07:59<Lyze-of-Kiel>Walex, other than battery reporting
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08:00<Lyze-of-Kiel>Is there other way I know why there is a drop of 10% battery when I power off?
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08:26<teatime>it's not unusual
08:26<teatime>temperature differences and stuff with have an effect, but even w/o that batteries often seem to drain over time w/o use.
08:27<teatime>the battery % is a very rough estimate, based off of the battery voltage
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08:48<mendi>Hi there
08:48<mendi>Anybody using bluetooth to stream audio via A2DP??
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08:59<Walakea>i think lm-sensors caused my laptop display to slightly flicker at low brightness
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09:07<teatime>good to know.
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10:22<lord_rob>Hi! Anyone knows if it's possible to setup an OpenVPN server that would multiple clients without SSL certificate and user/pass ?
10:22<lord_rob>would allow*
10:23<lord_rob>I don't care for security it's for my home network
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10:26<grove>If you can't (and I have no idea) you could set it up with a dummy user/pass that everyone (relevant, you don't have to tell us) knows
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10:29<lord_rob>and multiple clients could connect to that user simultaneously ?
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10:30<d3nny>lord_rob, yes
10:31<d3nny>as long as you don't setup ccd
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10:41<lord_rob>thanks grove and d3nny I'm investigating that
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11:45<mv>hey folks funning a freedombox aka debian sid and running into the following error on update and not sure how to resolve it
11:46<mv>fyi i tried autoclean, autoremove clean and deleting those files as well and then running update still results in the same error
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11:49<grove>This channel is for Jessie, for testing/sid go to #debian-next - but be prepared for
11:49<grove>!based on debian
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11:49<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
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12:04<MeatHammer>how do I start a seperate network namespace like... early on in the boot?
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12:11<mv>grove: thanks for the tip
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12:27<newbie19>i am trying to write in greek (Debian/KDE plasma) but i can't get the accented characters to work, i tried all greek layouts but i can't accent the characters
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12:32<awal>newbie19, have you installed the package kde-l10n-your language?
12:33<awal>newbie19, 'kde-l10n-el'
12:33<newbie19>let me check
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12:35<newbie19>i installed it, i'll relog and tell you, thanks for now
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12:37<musca>that's the collection of localized gui elements -- it doesn't improve keyboard layouts
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12:38<Parckwart>Maybe ask the guys over at #debian-gr?
12:39<awal>i wonder if he choosed greek for laguage localization (I dont know how it's called in english) during install
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12:40<newbie23>sorry installing the kde package didn't correct the layout, still can't accent greek characters
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12:41<awal>newbie19, have you chhosed greek for localization during install?
12:41<dpkg>Use 'dpkg-reconfigure locales' to get it up and running. This generates <locale> definitions and also edits /etc/default/locale which sets the $LANG environment variable at login time. Use "LANG=C command" to change the output language for a one off command, ask me about <localised errors>. See also <mac locales>.
12:42<newbie23>ok let me check it
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12:42<jrtc27>your locale shouldn't be stopping you from inputting Greek properly though, no?
12:43<newbie23>i can see all greek characters apart from those accented
12:43<awal>newbie19, I must leave not , but check debian wiki website, there you have tutorials about how you can change your systel language , etc
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12:43<awal>leave now ^
12:44<newbie23>ok awal, i just want to be able to write also in greek
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12:45<awal>i can do that for spanish and other north african/midle east languages. i believe you can have what you want for greek. check the wiki website
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12:50<ivan_>when i talked to my dad about debian he said that, "you have debian on your computer but just linux based," or something like that so ya
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12:56<ivan_>anyone ther
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12:56<ivan_>is debian based on linux
12:57<newbie89>or is linux based on debian...
12:57<grantwu>Debian has a Linux distribution yes
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12:57<grantwu>Debian also has BSD distributions I think
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12:57<ivan_>ok so you cant install debian on linux
12:57<teatime>but by far, the Hurd distro is most popular.
12:58-!-mode/#debian [+l 770] by debhelper
12:58<grantwu>It doesn't make sense to install something on top of a kernel
12:58<SynrG>teatime: don't deliberately confuse the already confused
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12:58<newbie89>never expected that it would be that hard to write an accented character in greek
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12:59<grantwu>Linux is not based on Debian
12:59<teatime>newbie89: do you normally use deadkeys for accents?
12:59<ivan_>how would u install ubuntu on linux
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12:59<grantwu>ivan_: you can't install a distribution on a kernel
12:59<teatime>ivan_: it doesn't make sense; Ubuntu already contains linux; Debian would be an alternative to Ubuntu; they're the same kind of thing, they can't co-exist
12:59<newbie89>teamtime in order to write an accented character in windows i press ; and then the vowel
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13:00<newbie89>teatime in order to write an accented character in windows i press ; and then the vowel
13:00<teatime>newbie89: kk, yeah that's deadkeys
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13:00<ivan_>ok what abou windows could u install it over windows
13:00<teatime>newbie89: but now I bet, when you switch to greek, suddenly ; types an actual ; instead of doing nothing?
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13:00<teatime>ivan_: Windows, Ubuntu, and Debian are all operating systems, so no, still the same kind of thing
13:01<ivan_>ok makes sense
13:01<ivan_>gtg bye im at sckool bye
13:01<teatime>newbie89: last question: Do you need to type a lot of greek, like sentences, or just the occasional character or word?
13:01<musca>i had to select german-legacy for deadkeys, I don't know if it is the same for greek.
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13:02<newbie89>if i don't type greek i linux is useless to me, i'll go back to win10, no other choice
13:02<teatime>ok, whatever
13:02<newbie89>i tried all layouts and some don't show ; but i press ; then the vowel and no character appears
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13:03<musca>newbie89: iremember the selection field for the legacy was empty and it did appear when i hovered the mouse over it
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13:04<newbie89>teatime, can't follow you, legacy?
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13:04<teatime>newbie89: you need to either 1) use a greek layout that is setup for deadkeys, 2) manually change your ; to be a deadkey, or 3) use a different method altogether for accenting characters
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13:05<teatime>newbie89: what kind of accent do you want ; to generate?
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13:06<newbie89>can you see the above character?
13:06<newbie89>it's like the prime notation in math but on top of a vowel
13:07<newbie89>this is standard in greek, every word written in small letters has at least one accented vowel
13:07<musca>I have found a screenshot
13:08<teatime>that seems to just be a question mark
13:09<newbie89>question mark is displayed by pressing "q", q doesn't exist in greek
13:09<SynrG>to me as well, and i'm properly set up to handle unicode, so i think the problem is at newbie89's end of things
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13:09<teatime>^^ please look here and tell me what it's called
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13:10<SynrG>^ i selected "Greek" and typed ;a
13:10<newbie89>The accents (Ancient Greek: ????? tónoi, singular ?????) are placed on an accented vowel or on the last of the two vowels of a diphthong (?, but ??) and indicated pitch patterns in Ancient Greek. The precise nature of the patterns is not certain, but the general nature of each is known.
13:10<SynrG>seems to work "out of the box" for me
13:11<newbie89>synrg i can't see the character you typed
13:11<teatime>newbie89: do you know if you typically use utf-8?
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13:11<SynrG>it's Unicode. maybe you didn't configure your system for Unicode? if so, you're off to a bad start ...
13:11<newbie89>is it the font of the system?
13:11<newbie89>i thought unicode would be by default setup
13:11<SynrG>it certainly should be, yes.
13:11<teatime>newbie89: unless you changed it trying to get this work, though
13:11<SynrG>how did you install debian?
13:12<newbie89>from installer:)
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13:12<SynrG>which installer? the default netinst?
13:12<musca>the selection for the variant does only appear when you touch it with the mouse
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13:12<teatime>newbie89: what does LANG= say if you run `locale` in a terminal?
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13:12<newbie89>the stretch_6
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13:12<SynrG>!testing installer
13:12<dpkg>Repeat after me: the testing installer is for testing the <installer>, not for installing <testing>. To install testing, do a minimal installation using the <stable> installer and ask me about <stable->testing>. Installer bugs should be filed against the debian-installer pseudopackage.
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13:12<SynrG>so, that's not a great starting point.
13:12<sney>locales should probably be ok though
13:13<SynrG>then perhaps you're missing a font?
13:13<musca>bah, and i revived my old KDE4 because we are in #debian here.
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13:14<newbie89>ok let me see where the display fonts are in kde
13:14<SynrG>if you're new to debian i absolutely would not recommend stretch.
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13:14<teatime>fwiw, you never told me which kind of accent you wanted ; to generate
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13:15<newbie89>teatime, i copy pasted from wikipedia so you find which i mean
13:15<newbie89>The accents (Ancient Greek: ????? tónoi, singular ?????) are placed on an accented vowel
13:15<teatime>newbie89: that references several diffrent kinds, though
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13:15<teatime>but anyway, if you select the correct keymap and variant, it should just work w/o manually configuring
13:16<teatime>so go w/ that
13:16<newbie89>accute accent
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13:17<newbie89>font: Oxygen-Sans
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13:23<SynrG>I don't see many accents in the Greek section of the Oxygen font
13:23<teatime>newbie89: is your ; on the keyboard in the upper-left corner?
13:23<newbie89>it is next to L
13:23<newbie89>right to L
13:24<SynrG>that would make sense. right on the home-row for quick access
13:24<SynrG>and consistent with what i've read about the standard Greek layout
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13:26<SynrG>anyway, i'll say again what i said before: i absolutely would not recommend stretch to a debian newbie
13:27<SynrG>who knows what localisation bugs might be in that ...
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13:27<SynrG>so far as i know, the solution to this is: install debian stable, select Greek at installation time, and it "just works" after that.
13:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 764] by debhelper
13:28<newbie89>i wanted to test kde plasma 5 since i am trying to move from windows 10 to linux, activities looked pretty good to me
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13:28<SynrG>fair enough, but expect bugs, then
13:28<newbie89>that's a basic bug! who else would find it:)
13:28<SynrG>(and at this point, it's unclear if this is user error, or a bug)
13:29<newbie89>didn't change anything just tried to change the layout from inside kde-> Settings
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13:29<SynrG>i did exactly what you did, except on Debian sid, Cinnamon desktop
13:29<teatime>it looks to me like, if you select the correct keyboard model, and select gr (Greek) for the layout, it should work
13:29<teatime>you might have to select extended for the variant, I can't tell
13:29<teatime>and NOT nodeadkeys
13:29<SynrG>teatime: for me, i found the default Greek layout worked with deadkeys
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13:29<newbie89>i selected extended, pressed ; and then the vowel and nothing appears!
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13:30<teatime>does the cursor move?
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13:30<newbie89>and that is very strange, not even a blank or crap character
13:30<teatime>SynrG: *shrug* also the greek keyboards I saw online have ; where q is on my US keyboard
13:30<teatime>SynrG: but it sounds like his ; is in the normal place, which is what xkb seems to expect
13:30<SynrG>teatime: that's if you actually want to make a semicolon
13:30<newbie89>when i say ; i mean the english ;
13:30-!-Gabriel_7 [~Gabriel@2a01:e35:1386:3290:21f:d0ff:fedb:a940] has joined #debian
13:31<SynrG>teatime: so if someone wants to type Greek with a US (physical) keyboard, they press ;
13:31<newbie89>the greek is placed in Q
13:31<SynrG>teatime: on an actual greek (physical) keyboard layout, they'd have a different keycap there, and the ; keycap where the Q is
13:31<newbie89>for greece u use a US keyboard layout and press ; for accents
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13:31<teatime>ok, I follow all of this
13:31<teatime>it was worth checking
13:32<SynrG>newbie89: so again, see the dpkg factoid i triggered above. the stretch installer is for testing *the installer*
13:32<newbie89>do you think i should try another keyboard model, other than generic?
13:32<SynrG>newbie89: not for testing stretch
13:32<SynrG>newbie89: the recommended way to install stretch is to install jessie, then upgrade.
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13:32<SynrG>but the very first thing i'd try is if this works in jessie
13:32<SynrG>maybe you should use a KDE live image for that
13:32<SynrG>though I caution that no language packs are installed with that
13:33-!-trapier [] has quit []
13:33<SynrG>however, you ought to at least be able to select a different keyboard layout with it
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13:33<SynrG>if you want to try plasma, that's a different matter. i don't know how finished that is in stretch, yet.
13:33<teatime>newbie89: tbh I am not 100% sure what generic does, but I can't imagine it would break this
13:33<SynrG>so i'm the wrong person to ask if you want to see if it's usable at all
13:34<teatime>I usually choose pc104 or whatever is most apropriate
13:34<newbie89>plasma has bugs, it crashes, but i wanted to see how i can work on this
13:34<newbie89>ok i'll try different keyboards
13:34<SynrG>but who knows which bugs it has today? we could be wasting huge energy on some known issue
13:35-!-antgel [~topdog@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:35<SynrG>the standard advice for a user wanting to use the next stable debian release is "wait"
13:35<SynrG>also beware:
13:35<dpkg>Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
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13:36<dpkg>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
13:36-!-joelkraehemann [~joelkraeh@] has joined #debian
13:36<SynrG>newbie89: yeah, you're not going to be able to do a "simple" backport of plasma from sid :)
13:36<SynrG>so don't even go there
13:37<newbie89>oh well, why are all things that complicated:P
13:37<SynrG>because it has massive numbers of dependencies!
13:37<SynrG>we don't just pull new packages out of thin air. there's work involved getting them ready for a new release
13:37<teatime>newbie89: so it's definitely a US keyboard, yeah?
13:38<musca>lots of work in this case
13:38<SynrG>ever wonder why it's 2-years-ish between debian releases? it just isn't easy coordinating all the interoperating bits, across all the architectures ...
13:38<newbie89>yes in windows all computers use us keybaord
13:38<teatime>that's not true. but ok, I beleive you about yours.
13:38<newbie89>synrg yeah i understand, but my general comment would be that all those people making lots of distributions could merge a little and make things better, i believe linux has overspread it's people power
13:39<newbie89>teatime, i mean people in greece use us keyboard layout
13:39<sney>that's probably accurate. everyone wants to reinvent the wheel.
13:39<newbie89>ah, now i checked again
13:39<SynrG>many people would say that has already happened. have a look at a tree of linux distros and see how many share Debian as its base
13:40<musca>newbie89: did you add a greek keyboad layout?
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13:40<raboof>I'd like to lock my screen when I close my laptop lid.
13:40<newbie89>musca yes tried all combinations
13:40<musca>there are six sub-variants
13:40<raboof>I tried adding a script to /etc/apm/event.d but it doesn't appear to be called - what would be a good way to accomplish this?
13:41<teatime>newbie89: and is the physical layout like this, where ; is precisely located at the position marked <AC10>? pay particular attention to the enter key; if yours is tall rather than wide, it's not the same layout
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13:41<teatime> <-- like this, rather
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13:41<SynrG>raboof: apm, not acpi? strangeness
13:42<musca>I think you need to cange the layout per application
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13:42<newbie89>teatime, you are right, the enter key is different in all layouts
13:42<newbie89>then it is a keyboard problem
13:42<SynrG>raboof: and in any case, i would expect this to be logind's job (assuming you're on systemd)
13:42<teatime>musca: no?
13:42<teatime>musca: just for X and console
13:42<SynrG>it is not, strictly speaking, a "power management event". it's a button-press.
13:43<SynrG>raboof: the primary problem is authorizing some agent to lock the screen on your behalf. that's what makes logind the logical choice
13:43<musca>sorry teatime, i was still in the kde-layout selection.
13:43<SynrG>raboof: trust me, i tried this all before, years ago, with acpi scripts for eeepc, and it was a horrible nightmare. don't wanna go there again.
13:44<teatime>newbie89: so then, I think you have a "US International" keyboard?
13:44<SynrG>raboof: i imagine with apm it would be a similar issue
13:44<newbie89>teatime, sorry i got confused
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13:44<teatime>which I don't think is actually a problem but I'm trying to check everything from the bottom up
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13:44<raboof>SynrG: perhaps I should've been looking in /etc/acpi - might explain why my apm scripts weren't called :)
13:45<teatime>newbie89: so your physical layout is identical to the image I linked, or different?
13:45<SynrG>raboof: afaik, apm is old/deprecated, replaced by acpi in modern systems
13:45<newbie89>greek simple is exactly my layout
13:45<SynrG>raboof: but even so, trying to do it in acpi is delegating the responsibility to the wrong agent, imho
13:45<teatime>the physical layout of your actual keyboard on your desk, I'm asking about
13:46<SynrG>raboof: those scripts would be run as root, which has no authority to do anything in your X session by default
13:46<newbie89>yes, all characters are set like in greek simple
13:46<MeatHammer>where is the appropriate place to define a network namespace at boot?
13:46<SynrG>raboof: nor even any way to determine "what is the current X session". not any elegant solution, anyway
13:46<raboof>SynrG: yeah, it might well be that logind is the place to do this, I have no clue (which is why I'm asking ;) )
13:47<SynrG>raboof: so if you *are* on systemd, you'll find logind's conf file has some lid action setting
13:47<SynrG>raboof: but i thought that locking just happened by default ...
13:47<SynrG>this may depend on what desktop components you have installed, though
13:47<SynrG>in a minimal/stripped down/non-standard desktop system you might have issues.
13:47<teatime>anyway, greek simple should indeed have a deadkey for acute accent on ;
13:48<raboof>SynrG: yeah, I have a pretty light windowmanager
13:48<newbie89>teatime, i think it is a bug, cause when i press the accent and then the vowel, it doesn't move, but pressing twice the ; , it shows an accent alone
13:48<teatime>newbie89: is your enter key wider than it is tall?
13:48<SynrG>raboof: i can confirm that with light-locker (works in conjunction with lightdm) and systemd + logind, the logind knob works fine
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13:48<newbie89>teatime yes
13:48<SynrG>raboof: other combinations of components may be possible
13:48<SynrG>raboof: that's "fairly light"
13:48<teatime>newbie89: the next thing I would do if I were you is confirm that you are using a font that can display the accented chars
13:48<teatime>newbie89: I can send you a .txt file w/ one in it
13:49<SynrG>raboof: that's my eeepc 1001px (circa 2010) at home, running a stripped-down LXDE desktop
13:49<teatime>what app are you trying to type them into anyway? multiple things?
13:49<newbie89>teatime: i can see accented characters shown in the irc client, but i can't see those you time
13:49<newbie89>those you type
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13:50<teatime>well I doubt that because i have not typed any
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13:51<SynrG>teatime: i'd like to point out you *have* pasted some, however
13:51<newbie89>teatime, someone typed before and it was jargon to me, but the date shown in the irc client has accented characters
13:51<teatime>SynrG: I think you'll find I have not.
13:51<SynrG><newbie89> The accents (Ancient Greek: ????? tónoi, singular ?????) are placed on an accented vowel or on the last of the two vowels of a diphthong (?, but ??) and indicated pitch patterns in Ancient Greek. The precise nature of the patterns is not certain, but the general nature of each is known.
13:51<SynrG>er, sorry
13:51<SynrG>newbie89 did :)
13:52<SynrG>teatime: momentary nick confusion
13:52<teatime>newbie89: Yes, you said you couldn't see when SynrG typed ά
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13:52<teatime>newbie89: irc is adding an extra complication here though
13:52<teatime>no need to make that jump yet
13:52<Inpetto>Hi anyone can help me fix this error ;
13:52<teatime>what app are you trying to type into?
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13:53<teatime>could you try, say, firefox instead
13:53-!-win32 [~EN@] has quit []
13:53<teatime>and type ; alpha
13:53-!-root_ [~smuxi@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:53<newbie89>ok let me check
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13:54<Inpetto>its from getting apt install gtk3.0
13:54<newbie89>teatime, you are right in works in firefox
13:54-!-NomadJim_ [~NomadJim@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:54<newbie89>teatime, but doesn't work on kate, console and the irc client
13:55-!-Samouy [~Samouy@2001:67c:1350:105::1c] has joined #debian
13:55<teatime>newbie89: all kb settings are fine the
13:55<newbie89>doesn't work also on the search of kde
13:55<SynrG>so i'm not sure what that indicates ... again, could be a stretch-specific issue
13:55<teatime>at least for X
13:55<teatime>yes, I do not know what that indicates either
13:55<SynrG>but at least it tells you your *system* is configured fine
13:55<newbie89>good to know:)
13:55<SynrG>and your keyboard layout is correct
13:55<teatime>newbie89: sorry for all of the trouble
13:56<newbie89>teatime, nothing to sorry about, i thank you guys for your time
13:56<teatime>newbie89: unfortunately, keyboard config in X *is* obtuse and difficult
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13:56<newbie89>teatime could it be the fonts then
13:56<teatime>however, it's a difficult problem to make a general solution to, and the xkb stuff does pretty much manage to handle everything
13:56<teatime>newbie89: possibly.
13:57<teatime>newbie89: normally though if it was that, it would print some kind of placeholder char
13:57<teatime>newbie89: but it's definitely possibl
13:57<raboof>SynrG: hmm, I don't really see a way to tell logind how to lock my screen..
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13:58<raboof>SynrG: light-locker claims 'screensaver already running in this session', though I'm not sure how it decides that :)
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13:58<SynrG>raboof: there's some "lid action" control
13:58<SynrG>raboof: i think it probably delegates to whoever claims to be handling locking, maybe dbus ...
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13:58<SynrG>raboof: if you have no dbus session, you could be up a creek :)
13:59<teatime>newbie89: right now, in your irc client, type exactly: ; alpha enter
13:59<raboof>SynrG: i think i have dbus ;)
13:59-!-clonak [] has joined #debian
13:59<SynrG>raboof: basically a locker will register interest in receiving lock events, and logind should say "hey, if you get a lid event, send a lock"
13:59<newbie89>it doesn't send anything
13:59<teatime>ah well
13:59<SynrG>raboof: i could be dead wrong about that :)
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14:00<SynrG>raboof: hm, there's #HandleLidSwitch=suspend
14:00<teatime>newbie89: now that you have the settings, you could trying re-logging in. but I don't think it will help.
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14:00<newbie89>ok will do
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14:00<SynrG>raboof: that seems to be default, and ime, is accompanied by locking
14:00<raboof>yeah, there's probably no-one listening to the 'lock' events then
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14:01<SynrG>raboof: so on my netbook at home, which runs "docked" to a wireless keyboard and monitor, and hence lid constantly closed, i had to change that to the do-nothing option
14:01<teatime>at one point, I tried to understand everything involved in xkb from the bottom all the way up.
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14:01<teatime>it is not a fun exercise.
14:01<SynrG>i forget what. "none", or "blank" or something
14:01<SynrG>otherwise it would lock, which is a default behaviour
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14:01<SynrG>raboof: so the inverse of your problem :)
14:01<teatime>I wanted to make a custom keyboard layout and/or modify a unicomp to add add'l buttons that are wired up but hidden and/or make a converter for an old 122-key terminal keyboard.
14:02<teatime>end result: keyboards are too hard
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14:02<SynrG>raboof: so maybe you have a session running but your locker (if you have one running) doesn't know how to talk to it due to not set up in environment?
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14:03<SynrG>i think it all gets communicated via env vars, inherited by each child
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14:03<SynrG>if you don't use a *DM at all, you might be missing out on that
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14:05<newbie65>ok logged in back, only iceweasel works, dolphin, kate, kmail, don't work
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14:06<teatime>you could try some gtk apps etc. to confirm that it seems to be a kde/qt problem
14:06<teatime>and then seek more help from a kde/qt channel, i think
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14:07<teatime>it should not require additional kde/qt-specific configuration afaik
14:07<newbie89>can you suggest a gtk app to try?
14:08<teatime>you could install gucharmap I guess
14:08<raboof>SynrG: hmm i don't see lid/suspend/lock events in dbus-monitor when i close the lid...
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14:10<SynrG>Kernel not handling them?
14:10<raboof>SynrG: well the machine suspends fine :)
14:10<SynrG>With an appropriate module for your hardware they should map to button events
14:11<SynrG>But could be a non button handler
14:12<newbie89>teatime gucharmap works, so i guess i should move to kde! thanks for tracking it down and thanks synrg too
14:12<SynrG>newbie89: np
14:13<SynrG>raboof: that should tell you what events are produced
14:14<SynrG>I mean, a layer or two down
14:14<raboof>'button/lid LID close'
14:14<SynrG>So i don't know what agent acts on that
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14:15<SynrG>Clearly we only know a couple of the players and are missing one
14:15<raboof>/etc/acpi/ checks for 'CheckPolicy || HasLogindAndSystemd1Manager' and that's true, let me brush up my sh to find out which one :)
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14:16<raboof>(looks like as a 'plan b' I could define a /etc/acpi/local/ script, but let's see where this goes first)
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14:18<raboof>ok, 'HasLogindAndSystemd1Manager' is true, that's good I guess :)
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14:24<raboof>'dbus-monitor --system' does show 'LidIsClosed' events but nothing lock-related either
14:24<SynrG>raboof: iirc there are actually two sessions, one for the desktop and one for the Login Manager. Just in case that has any bearing on your problem.
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14:25<SynrG>It's just kind of hard right now for me to check this because I'm Google Voice typing and nowhere near my system.
14:26<raboof>SynrG: lol wow respect :)
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14:29<SynrG>raboof: its fine for conversational texting but not so great for the technical stuff.
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14:31<SynrG>raboof: if you'd like, later when I get home I can try some of the same monitoring commands and see what they give me on my LXDE system at home
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14:49<stephen0001>is there anywhere reference documentation for dash? I want to learn more about it
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14:50<stephen0001>sorry, a complete specification I mean.
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14:53<jrtc27>more than man dash?
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15:01<retrospectacus>stephen0001: it's an interactive shell. what else do you need to know?
15:02<stephen0001>everything about it and how it correlates with other shells like Bash and Korn
15:03<stephen0001>I want to develop my scripts as dash when I can and bash when I have to.
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15:03<retrospectacus>I'm sure you've already read this;
15:03<retrospectacus>I sent it to you a week ago iirc
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15:08<stephen0001>yes I have
15:08<stephen0001>if that's all I need, then I think I'm pretty much covered
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15:16<vook>Anyone know of any (free) software or have any ideas as to how I can simulate normal network traffic from a few hundred clients (about 2gbps). I'm trying to come up with a way to test quagga as a CGN server.
15:18<vook>So far, I've envisioned creating about 200 vms that spawn and crawl a variety of sites, but there's probably something more efficient.
15:19<stephen0001>you mean something like apache benchmark, siege, wrk, and so forth?
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15:20<vook>those are for benchmarking http, I need something that will stress test a router (quagga).
15:20<vook>something like this: - but software based.
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15:22<vook>and free...
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15:26<stephen0001>I just searched it as "network simulator"; it wasn't that hard
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15:26<stephen0001>"network simulator linux"
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15:33<vook>well, but that's not it, thanks anyway. Those aren't generating real-world traffic and pushing it over physical devices, they're more in the spirit of router-sim, virtualized networks/labs.
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15:51<Inpetto>anyone can help while getting this error ; ** (gnome-settings-daemon:7889): WARNING **: Unable to initialize GTK+ ?
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15:51<mtn>Inpetto: still in the wrong channel. you want #debian-next
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15:58<R4F_Debian>Hi all, I've installed debian-handbook in my Debian, for it covers Debian 8 Jessie; I use as suggested this path, with my option for English Language: /usr/share/doc/debian-handbook/html/en-US# - appear a long list with lines such as sect.source-package-structure.html
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15:59<R4F_Debian>But I can't read the book through command line. Hope anyone can help me on this, Please
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16:01<retrospectacus>R4F_Debian: open with a browser?
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16:01<R4F_Debian>Hi retrospectacus. Glad to see you here !
16:01<retrospectacus>glad to be here :)
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16:02<R4F_Debian>Great Dear Warrior ! Well, retrospectatus, I thought it was to be used through command line
16:02<jrtc27>command-line browsers exist...
16:02<R4F_Debian>in this case, should I always use this html lists in the browser ?
16:03<R4F_Debian>not possible through command line ?
16:03<jrtc27>for example
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16:04<teatime>R4F_Debian: you can install w3m or lynx; these are text-mode/command-line web browsers
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16:04<R4F_Debian>HI teatime ! How are you ?
16:05<R4F_Debian>oh, so that's why I can't open these html sessions ?
16:05<R4F_Debian>let me try it here
16:05<teatime>with w3m, it's be w3m -v /path/to/file.html
16:06<R4F_Debian>I see, first of all apt-get install w3m ?
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16:06<R4F_Debian>and after that, this path: w3m -v /path/to/file.html ?
16:06<R4F_Debian>I have w3m here already
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16:11<R4F_Debian>teatime, I use this sequence as you showed me: wem -v /path/to/file.html, for example: w3m -v /path/to/workstation.html, but it replies: w3m: Can't load /path/to/sect.why-debian.html
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16:12<R4F_Debian>sorry: w3m, not wem
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16:14<R4F_Debian>teatime and retrospectatus, I've found man about w3m, I will read it, and if I can't fix this issue, I will contact yours or Debian Support again. Thanks for Help !
16:15<R4F_Debian>See you soon ! Bye ! Bye All !
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16:36<ivan_>so i have linux and windows on here could i delete windows and replace it with something different like ubuntu
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16:54<clt>Good evening, I don' understand why firefox bug, I use LMDB. Can someone help me
16:54-!-alumno is now known as BriMaslow
16:55<alumno_>oi he
16:56<markybob>clt: LMDB? do you mean LMDE?
16:57<alumno_>what do you meannn
16:57<BriMaslow>ahre porque
16:57<clt>Sorry That mean linux mint Debian,
16:57-!-alumno_ is now known as johannateloiv
16:58<markybob>clt: then no. that's not supported here
16:58<BriMaslow>Hi joha
16:58<dpkg>Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at or join #linuxmint-help on for support. Linux Mint is variously based on <Ubuntu> with a "Linux Mint Debian Edition" (LMDE) also available. See also <based on debian>, <mintppc>.
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16:59<markybob>clt: and yes i know the new one is based on debian. doesn't mean it is debian and it's not supported
16:59<johannateloiv>are you a machine?
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17:00<clt>Thank you, I believed that LMDE supported firefox
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17:01<BriMaslow>la base de datos de virus ha sido actualizada ahre
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17:02<johannateloiv>todos se marchan
17:02<BriMaslow>todos abandonan
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17:03<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
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17:08<bill-auger>@clt - in debian firefox is named "iceweasel"
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18:36<PenGui>I have tried to configure apache with php fpm and proxy mod and when i try a connection in the error logs i get connection refused any ideas?
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19:12<trump>hey all
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19:44<twb>Is fail2ban clearly superior to denyhosts?
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19:46<themill>twb: fail2ban uses transient configuration for banning while denyhosts uses a config file. denyhosts only works for things that do tcpwrappers while fail2ban works at kernel level rather than application level
19:47<themill>(I've also seen odd bugs where denyhosts has created hosts.deny files with 100k lines in them... not classy)
19:48<twb>that's what I thought, thanks
19:48<twb>At work I'm using a purely in-kernel implementation with -m recent and -m set, but it can't distinguish between failure and success
19:48<twb>Which means that for "normal" sites, or for HTTP, it's nonviable
19:49<themill>yeah, rate limiting is a poor choice even for ssh
19:49<twb>(On the plus side, it means that attempting to brute force e.g. FTP will get you banned, even though I'm not even listening on FTP)
19:49<twb>themill: well you can just tell your uses to ControlMaster=auto
19:49<themill>if it involves telling users things, it's wrong
19:50<twb>I did have to whitelist $boss's home, though, because he had four people doing autossh and imaps as fast as they could from the one IP
19:50<twb>themill: for work I can get away with it because we're all sysadmins
19:50<twb>But yeah, not for $customer, hence why I'm looking at fail2ban
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20:03<twb>Are there any obvious gotchas when rolling out fail2ban?
20:03<twb>Other than leave a backdoor open or do it on-site, so you don't brick it
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20:16<ivan_>how do i make a kernal
20:17<twb>ivan_: you probably don't need to
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20:17<twb>ivan_: what is your ultimate goal?
20:17<ivan_>ik but i just want to for the fun of it
20:17<twb>OK, then you want to read the kernel handbook
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20:18<ivan_>umm try new things
20:18<twb>!tell ivan_ about kernel handbook
20:18<ivan_>umm ill look it up ok
20:18<twb>sure thing.
20:19<ivan_>is it hard to make a kernal
20:20<twb>ivan_: it is not hard, but it can be confusing at first
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20:20<ivan_>so do u want me to read everything in the hand book
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20:21<twb>is it a reference book. It says "if you want to do X, read chapter X"
20:21<twb>because there are different ways, depending on what you want
20:21<ivan_>idk what i want
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20:22<ivan_>this is the website im on
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20:26<twb>ivan_: OK have you got a kernel yet?
20:26<twb>Have you got the source, I mean
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20:27<ivan_>what do u mean source like website
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20:28<twb>ivan_: OK, have you ever compiled anything before?
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20:29<twb>OK. To compile something, you need the "source code". You get this either from a tarball (like frobozz_1.0.orig.tar.xz), or using a VCS like git or svn.
20:29<twb>You also need the compiler tools, like gcc. For these, "apt-get install build-essential".
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20:31<ivan_>ok i have the .tar.xz file let me install the apt-get
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20:33<twb>You might be better off compiling some simpler things first
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20:38<trump>anyone here run gnome and amd graphics?
20:38<twb>trump: no, but what's the real question?
20:39<trump>anyway of installing amd drivers without breaking gnome?
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20:39<twb>You mean the non-free fglrx driver?
20:40<twb>Don't know. What failure are you seeing?
20:40<dpkg>fglrx / AMD Catalyst is the proprietary display driver for AMD Radeon R9 200 series, Radeon R7 200 series, Radeon HD 8000/7000/6000/5000 and FirePro graphic processing units. To install fglrx, see or ask me about <fglrx dkms>. This driver is incompatible with the GNOME desktop of Debian 8 "Jessie" due to lack of EGL support (ref. §5.11 <jessie release notes>), use the <radeon> driver instead.
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20:41<trump>gnome cant start with fglrx drivers.
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20:41<trump>^thanks egl support is the word i was lookimng for
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20:41<petn-randall>trump: Right. Use the radeon drivers instead. Not much we can do about it, since fglrx is proprietary.
20:42<trump>any idea if steam runs with radeon drivers?
20:42<trump>only thing i saw was it needed fglrx to run.
20:43<petn-randall>depends on the game
20:43<petn-randall>the HW acceleration is quite decent for older chipsets, and practically non-existant for the new ones.
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20:43<trump>cant even get steam to launch.
20:44<twb>petn-randall: are you saying that newer games don't even *try* to use hardware acceleration?
20:44<twb>petn-randall: or that newer games try to use hardware acceleration that the free driver doesn't implement?
20:44<trump>no, steam wont even launch.
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20:44<twb>Oops, I misread
20:44<trump>libgl errors with radeon drivers, non working gnome withfglrx lol
20:45<petn-randall>twb: I'm saying that for some games the radeon performance is fast enough. Probably won't be enough for Battlefield 4. :)
20:45<trump>ah k
20:46<trump>thats cormforting. last time i tried to game on linux the drivers were poop
20:46<somiaj>radeon has hardware acceleration but you need non-free firwmare (though unsure how ti compares to fglrx)
20:46<blast007>trump: with the radeon drivers, did you have firmware-linux-nonfree installed? no idea if that would help steam, but I could certainly see it hurting if you didn't have it.
20:46<somiaj>you won't get hardware acceleration without the non-free firmware
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20:47<trump>i think i installed firmware-linux-nonfree..but cant remember for certain.
20:47<trump>guess ill give it a shot and double check.
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20:48<trump>yes @blast007 its installed
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20:50<ivan_>im back
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20:53<twb>at what point is it easier to just install Valve's own linux distro
20:53<twb>cos then steam should Just Work, right?
20:53<petn-randall>twb: I don't think it runs on any kind of hardware.
20:54<sney>it's pretty much an ubuntu blend last time I checked.
20:54<twb>I guess it depends if you want to be able to switch between "shooting russians" and "writing thesis" without a reboot
20:55<twb>ivan_: no offense -- that's just what Battlefield 4 is about
20:55<petn-randall>twb: Then again the higher costs of rebooting might inhibit your urge for a "quick" match of $game.
20:55<trump>at this point, it would be easier to install SteamOS or Ubuntu just to play. But I rather not have either.
20:56<twb>Personally I like having my real computer separate because then I can read a book during load screens
20:56<somiaj>My suggestion for gaming in linux is get nvidia (non optimus) hardware.
20:56<trump>I been hearing that lately somiaj
20:57<twb>I have a conspiracy theory that wine only works properly for people running nvidia and non-free drivers
20:58<somiaj>trump: the fglrx drivers don't seem to be as good as nvidia's non-free blob (and in both cases the opensource drivers are worse)
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21:00<somiaj>though radeon seems to be far ahead of nouveau because at least amd gives some support back to the opensource drivers (for older hardware)
21:00<trump>I wonder if AMD could open source their drivers.
21:01<twb>AIUI the GPU vendors hate that because obfuscation is one of their main techniques to maintain control over their IP
21:01<somiaj>I'm sure you can send them another email asking them too, and they won't.
21:03<twb>"Proprietary, patented optimizations are part of the value we provide to our customers and we have no plans to release these drivers to open source."
21:04<twb>Sounds like the author of that press statement doesn't actually understand patent law.
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21:06<twb> gives an overview
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21:08<sney>AMD recently mumbled something about open sourcing some stuff, though it would probably be not the latest and greatest
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21:09<trump>any clue why i cant set city location in gnome openweather applet?
21:10<somiaj>sney: AMD (and before ATI) has been better than nvidia about opensourcing old non-supported cards. Partly why the radeon driver is where it is at.
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21:10<sney>that's true, and I was confused about that recent press release, though maybe it means last-gen stuff could be supported sans firmware? we won't know until it actually bears fruit
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21:15<nevyn>sney: I think the whole firmware thing is orthoganal to the amdgpu thing
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21:48<quietone>setting up sanes to work remotely. man page has instructions for inetd, xinetd and systemd. Which do I use for Jessie?
21:48<quietone>for a scanner at home
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21:53<markybob>quietone: jessie by default is systemd
21:54<quietone>markybob, thx.
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22:13<R4F_Debian>Hi all, I can't unpack the following file: Angel Dust into The Dark Past (1986).rar. I installed unrar-nonfree. How can I unpack it, please ? The option ' unrar x (name of file) didn't get any result
22:14<R4F_Debian>My OS is Jessie 8.3 amd64 architecture
22:14<sney>R4F_Debian: maybe try renaming the file (with mv) to something without any special characters? most programs shouldn't have a problem with that filename, but maybe unrar is primitive
22:14<R4F_Debian>Oh, Hi sney !
22:15<R4F_Debian>sney, this file name is very extensive. What do you suggest ?
22:15<R4F_Debian>Dust.rar ?
22:15<R4F_Debian>dust.rar ?
22:15<flappy>Hey, I'm trying to downgrade mono-complete to the jessie version (3.2.8+dfsg-10) from the 4.2.x in stretch.
22:16<R4F_Debian>I renamed to simply dust.rar
22:16<R4F_Debian>what is the syntax: unrar-nonfree or just unrar x dust.rar ?
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22:18<R4F_Debian>it's done here, sney !
22:18<sney>there you go
22:18<dpkg>TIAS is "Try It And See".
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22:20<sney>flappy: downgrade isn't supported by apt, but if you remove mono entirely from what I assume is a stretch system, you _should_ be able to install it from jessie without any major complications. however, this is completely unsupported and ymmv.
22:21<R4F_Debian>Thanks for help sney ! Hope see you soon !
22:21<R4F_Debian>Bye !
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22:52<twb>Is wheezy-lts supposed to work yet?
22:53<twb>I'd rather turn it on a little early so I don't have to remember to turn it on next month
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22:54<twb>My in-house mirror managed to sync wheezy-lts from my ISP's mirror, which suggests the issue is in
22:55<quietone>errors on saned start. do_bindings: [0] bind failed: Address already in use
22:55<quietone>and ps -ef | grep sane show 2 instances running
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22:58<twb>quietone: so why are the others running?
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22:59<quietone>twb, I don't know. I just 'service saned restart' and get two
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23:00<twb>quietone: this is on jessie?
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23:00<quietone>twb, yes, the server is jessie and the client is jessie
23:00<twb>Argh what's the sane source package
23:01<quietone>twb, ?
23:01<twb>Source: sane-backends
23:02<quietone>twb, i don't understand
23:02<twb>quietone: don't worry about it
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23:08<twb>OK it looks like saned is a sysvinit job, not a systemd job
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23:09<twb>It is not clear to me why you would get more than one, but note you should be doing "service saned start" not "saned start"
23:09<twb>I suggest you kill off all your saned instances, then start one using service(8)
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23:12<quietone>twb, i've been stopping and starting with 'service saned <action>'
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23:12<quietone>twb, and I can't start just one. when I kill them all and restart or start. I get two.
23:12<twb>OK, I can't fix that, please report a bug
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23:40<quietone>finally got it working, despite the fact that there are two processes.
23:41<twb>perhaps it's one master and one helper and I just misunderstood
23:41<twb>I do not know how sane works inside
23:41<quietone>the man page instructions work for me. With the addition of updating /etc/sane.d/net.conf on each client, which I learned from a question on
23:42<quietone>twb, I've since found other comment about the two processes. so it is known.
23:42<twb>okey dokey
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---Logclosed Tue Feb 23 00:00:06 2016