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#debian IRC Logs for 2016-03-05

---Logopened Sat Mar 05 00:00:21 2016
---Daychanged Sat Mar 05 2016
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02:58<ays>how do I package software for debian?
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03:52<MTecknology>I'm trying to figure out systemd. Where should my unit file be created? I stuck it in /etc/systemd/kibb.service but when I run service kibb status, it says unrecognized service
03:53<MTecknology>err... /etc/systemd/system/kibb.service
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03:58<musca>MTecknology: does "systemctl status kibb.service" give you a result?
03:59<MTecknology>musca: ehm... it's not gonna work if I don't use systemd, is it? :P
03:59<MTecknology>and thanks!
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04:01<veggi3s>with debian, are you able to move the ssd drive from one laptop to another and not have to reinstall everythign?
04:03<MTecknology>veggi3s: 99% of the time, you'll have little trouble with that (provided you didn't do a targeted initrd image)
04:04<musca>veggi3s: proprietary graphic drivers may need some manual interaction
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04:06<musca>veggi3s: your network interface might get a new name
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06:13<raboof>hmm, on my rpi, /etc/network/interfaces lists 'iface eth0 inet dhcp' (not 'inet6'), but that interface gets only an ipv6 address and no ipv4 one. that doesn't seem right, right?
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06:16<johannes293>hello. I'm sitting in front of a fresh debian with lxde installed. x works, but I cant reach a command line interface with ctrl+alt+fX. If I try to do so, I just get a graphical login prompt and I can't get back to my logged in session (via ctrl+alt+f0-9).
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06:17<johannes293>what may be going on there? Isn't the graphical session on ctrl+alt+F7 and CLIs on ctrl+alt+f1-6?
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06:27<muep>raboof: it would usually get at least a link-local ipv6 address without any configuration
06:28<raboof>muep: yeah it actually automatically gets both a link-local and a public ipv6 address, just no ipv4 one
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06:30<muep>it might also get a public ipv6 address without configuration on some networks. but the actual issue you seem to have is that you did not get an address from DCHP for ipv4
06:31<raboof>correct. it works fine when I manually 'sudo dhclient -4 -v eth0' though
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06:37<muep>sounds unusual. I am not sure where the dhclient logs from boot are, but those might give some hints on what happened
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07:11<endcarnage>Hi there. I am trying to configure a Bind server. I have worked through some tutorials and got most of it working. But there is still one issue I would like to solve, but my Google skills seem to be not good enough to find an answer.
07:11<endcarnage>I would like the server to be available under and
07:12<endcarnage> works fine, from my internal network, but does not work.
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07:12<endcarnage>The server running bind is configured as main DNS-Server for the client calling
07:12<endcarnage>The config file looks like this:
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07:13<endcarnage>Would be nice, if someone can hint me into the right direction
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07:21<vagarwal>endcarnage: define "does not work" please
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07:22<vagarwal>does it not resolve at all or it does but gives you a 404?
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07:40<endcarnage>Seems to not resolve. SeaMonkey reports "No site configured at this address "
07:40<endcarnage>Whereas www gives me the apache example site
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07:47<vagarwal>endcarnage: did you try to resolve it using specific name servers? Try this: $ dig @your-ns-ip a
07:48<vagarwal>endcarnage: and then try to resolve it using a public DNS server like
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08:00<endcarnage>The client from which I connect is a windows machine. So no dig there. When I try this from the machine the dns is running on, the results look similar
08:01<endcarnage>in the first section the id is different and the number after Authority
08:01<endcarnage>At opt pseudosection udp is 4096 where delivers 512
08:02<endcarnage>And the authority section lists some more dns servers
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08:11<teatime>endcarnage: it sounds like you don't have an A (or CNAME) record for
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08:12<endcarnage>How would I do this? I have the following entry in the config file (see link above): IN A
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08:13<teatime>let me take a look
08:13<teatime>that probably creates though
08:13<teatime>change it to @
08:14<endcarnage>Yeah, works, I will try it with @
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08:15<endcarnage>Yes, that works. Thanks
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08:21<salman>whois salman
08:21<salman>whois Salmandjuli
08:21<salman>whois Reda
08:22*themill hands salman a box of /s
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09:52<jose>hola alguien habla español ??
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09:53<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
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10:00<CJHR>So apparently #! was more different than debian than I thought
10:01<CJHR>If my program's package (irssi in this case) is not found in the package lists in my sources.list, how do I find the entries I'd need to modify/add in to correct it?
10:01<CJHR>Using Wheezy by the way.
10:04<abrotman>CJHR: jessie?
10:05<teatime>irssi is in main.
10:05<teatime>what is #!?
10:05<abrotman>dpkg: tell CJHR about wheezy sources.list
10:05<CJHR>yeah, old #!
10:05*teatime points salman to themill's /'s.
10:05<abrotman>CJHR: not sure why you installed Wheezy instead of Jessie, but see what the bot told you
10:05<CJHR>Whoops, meant Jessie
10:05<abrotman>dpkg: tell CJHR about jessie sources.list
10:05<abrotman>still see what the bot told you :)
10:06<abrotman>CJHR: sounds like you used the netinst, and didn't have internet working at install time, soyou don't have a main source
10:06<CJHR>I used a CD install
10:06<abrotman>that's thenetinst
10:07<CJHR>the .iso? Hum
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10:07<salman>dpkg -l | grep irssi
10:07<dpkg>ii | grep irssi 2.1-3.1 ultra s3kr1t #debian package
10:07<abrotman>the ISO can be a netinst, or a full CD or a DVD or a bluray
10:08<CJHR>More importantly, how do I find my sources.list in Awesome
10:08<CJHR>I'll figure that out on my own though
10:08<teatime>dpkg -l screen
10:08<dpkg>ii screen 1.5-3.1 teatime's private porn collection
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10:09<teatime>lol wtf is dpkg, the bot, doing when you do that
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10:12<CJHR>If I did use netinst, what would I need to do to add a main source to my list?
10:12<CJHR>I know apt-get update and upgrade work, but if they work off of listed sources then I'd obviously need to add.. more
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10:13<salman>deb jessie-updates main contrib non-free
10:13<salman>deb jessie/updates main contrib non-free
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10:13<teatime>salman: you left out the actual main archive
10:13<teatime>CJHR: dpkg told you
10:13<cra1g321>if only there was a awesome wiki page that explained it all and gave examples....
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10:15<CJHRwew>There just needs to be an IRC where complete idiots like me can go to spam questions
10:16<CJHRwew>Since apparently I'm not smart enough to find them with internet searches, like whew
10:16<awal>also "jessie-updates main ..." repository, if needed for some packages (like clamav) CJHR
10:16<salman>teatime : Ooppss, sorry...
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10:17<teatime>awal: dpkg told him abuot that too
10:17<awal>CJHR, which relation Awsome have with sources file?
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10:18<CJHRwew>No direct relation
10:18<CJHRwew>But in my previous WM, which was GTK I think, I could easily open it with a graphical file browser
10:18<teatime>well it's still in the same place
10:18<CJHRwew>The only one present in my Awesome application list is one that seems to be for writing/modifying cd's
10:18<teatime>have no idea what you're talking about
10:19<CJHRwew>Basically I am unsure how to open it without Apper directly.
10:19<CJHRwew>running Apper from terminal outputs a weird error.
10:19<awal>CJHR, awesome is a window manager
10:19<CJHRwew>I know.
10:19<itd>CJHRwew: you should be able to modify it with the editor "nano" called from a terminal
10:19<CJHRwew>Oh ffs I forgot about Nano
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10:20<awal>maybe some day debian will provide a task-desktop-awesome and similar apps you had previously for sources ... maybe included by defautl :D
10:21<CJHRwew>my .sources has jessie-main, updates-main and noncontrib
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10:21<CJHRwew>Since i used Netinst I'm unsure what more I need that are considered main sources for programs that are apparently regularly available like irssi
10:21<CJHRwew>* contrib non-free
10:21<CJHRwew>sorry bb I'm new
10:22<awal>CJHRwew, have you looked at debian wiki? a few seconds there you solve you sources file issue
10:22<teatime>dpkg: sources.list?
10:22<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for Debian 8 "Jessie" has three lines: "deb jessie main" "deb jessie/updates main" "deb jessie-updates main". Be sure to run «aptitude update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <jessie/updates> <jessie-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list".
10:22<teatime>CJHRwew: ^^^^
10:23<teatime>irssi is in main. you can add non-free and contrib if you like.
10:23<CJHRwew>jessie-main isn't the actual main?
10:24<teatime>jessie-main isn't anything
10:24<CJHRwew>So jessie-main is literally just base files -for- jessie
10:24<teatime>it's literally non-existant
10:24<teatime>trust dpkg. he doesn't lie.
10:25<teatime>you need exactly 3 lines.
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10:27<CJHRwew>Let me just.. do that
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10:37<oem>any idea why 'apt-cache madison systemd' reports multiple versions (228-2,228-6), but on 'apt-get install systemd=228-2' i get 'E: Version '228-2' for 'systemd' was not found'?
10:38<beginner>hi all!
10:38<teatime>oem is it a source package
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10:39<CJHRwew>even after writing in the package lists it won't save over my existing sources.list
10:39<CJHRwew>in sudoedit
10:39<CJHRwew>Am I retarded?
10:39<teatime>haha, I don't want to answer that
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10:40<teatime>save it as another file and mv it over, if you forgot to open it as root
10:40<beginner>For me it is really hard to understand how to work with graphics on linux.
10:40<CJHRwew>Well sudoedit would be, I assume, root
10:40<beginner>What calls what, and how.
10:41<teatime>it should be, so I dunno
10:41<oem>teatime: yeah, you're right
10:42<teatime>yup, 228-6 is the only installable package available for you
10:43<oem>teatime: so, say I want to install a .deb of it - it's no longer present in official packages repo right, what do i do?
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10:43<itd>beginner: what is your question?
10:43<teatime>there are archive repos that have old packages
10:43<itd>CJHRwew: sudo != root
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10:43<CJHRwew>Apparently trying to open my sources.list with sudoedit just open a tmp sources
10:43<CJHRwew>so I'll su then nano
10:44<CJHRwew>which worked
10:44<teatime>CJHRwew: it edits a tmp file and mv's it afterward
10:44<oem>teatime: but how do I know i'm getting the legit pkg? would I not need to verify the hash?
10:44<CJHRwew>So something denied it allowing the move then.
10:45<teatime>oem: debian packages are signed with debian's keys
10:45<teatime>oem: I don't mean to say it's a 3rd party thing
10:47<beginner>can anyone help me with that?
10:47<oem>teatime: oh. so dpkg checks the signature upon install of a .deb pkg towards the gpg keyring and reports if it can not be verified?
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10:49<teatime> <-- this snapshot has 228-2
10:49<teatime>oem: exactly.
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10:50<CJHRwew>well update wanted to install 45mb of packages so I guess that is the answer
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10:50<oem>teatime: may I ask how you were able to locate it?
10:50<teatime>oem: you can just add (assuming stretch) "deb stretch main" to sources.list
10:50<teatime>oem: the search box on
10:51<oem>teatime: great, thank you
10:52<CJHRwew>it werked
10:52<CJHRwew>I asked yesterday if anyone knew anything about AMD drivers
10:53<salman>use "apt-search AMD drivers"
10:53<teatime>dpkg: ask?
10:53<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
10:54<teatime>salman: did you ever fix your machine? :)
10:54<CJHRwew>Well that's not quite the issue, I know I want to install lgfrx
10:54<CJHRwew>and have attempted before, but something is.. wrong
10:55<oem>teatime: 1 more question, if possible, lsb_release -a reports 'sid', and mentions the release as 'testing-updates' - I presume this doesn't qualify for 'stretch'? my sources.list reads this:
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10:56<CJHRwew>xrandr shows me: no protocol specified, cannot open output (0.0) and a hardware list looks like it's running my VGA output from what I could gather
10:56<salman>i'm using "apt search anything" to learn
10:56<CJHRwew>Lemme run again
10:56<teatime>oem: hrm, not sure, but testing is stretch
10:56<teatime>oem: sid is unstable (and unstable is always called sid)
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10:57<oem>teatime: yeah, that's why i'm asking. the line that triggers this specific output is probably the "testing-updates" inclusive
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10:58<teatime>oem: does the fact that lsb_release says that break anything?
10:58<teatime>your sources.list seems fine to me.
10:59<salman>deb-src testing contrib main non-free
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11:00<oem>teatime: don't think it breaks anything, however it's a little odd that sid is mentioned. I just had a feeling that I'm getting some packages from sid somehow :)
11:01<teatime>oem: not with that sources.list. although sid and testing have the same versions of a lot of stuff.
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11:01<CJHRwew>a search tells me that running xrandr as root does weird things, but even if I run it as regular user it tells me screen size is 1024x768
11:01<teatime>oem: you may want to use 'stretch' instead of 'testing', otherwise you will suddenly and perhaps unexpectedly get updates from the next testing when stretch is released as stable.
11:02<teatime>I don't have a testing box to check on, that may be perfectly normal output.
11:02<oem>teatime: yes, thank you. however, as this is a more or less testing env (not production) = I won't be a big of a problem to go over the new 'testing' release, I was expecting that
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11:04<oem>teatime: ok, verified, the offending line is indeed "eb testing-updates main non-free contrib
11:04<teatime>oem: you can remove the deb-src line to avoid apt-cache madison giving the extra useless information from your previous question, or add equivalent lines for your other sources if actually make use of src pkgs
11:04<teatime>but it doesn't break anything.
11:04<oem>teatime: yup, will do
11:04<teatime>tbh I'm not sure why testing-updates exists, but it's OK to have it.
11:04<oem>teatime: funny thing though, regarding that line I pasted above, I commented it, did dist-upgrade, it changed to 'stretch', uncommented = changed to 'sid' :) but _did not_ install any files
11:05<CJHRwew>using dmesg gives me a buttload of IO-PAGE-FAULTs
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11:06<CJHRwew>and searching for loaded microcode shows nothing
11:06<CJHRwew>In fact the page errors run during I think POST
11:06<CJHRwew>No, as soon as I load Debian
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11:07<teatime>dpkg: tell oem about stretch sources.list
11:07<teatime>dpkg says include it.
11:07<dpkg>teatime: bugger all, i dunno
11:07<teatime>naturally I'm super curious now what lsb_release does
11:08<teatime>(I always just look at /etc/debian_release)
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11:08<oem>teatime: I just hate tabbing for /etc/debian_version :)
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11:08<teatime>er, yeah, that.
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11:10<CJHRwew>debian jessie shows to support the R9 series so that shouldn't be a problem
11:11<oem>teatime: any idea if I can install a linux bootloader + windows and encrypt the whole disk, making the bootloader chainload window's bootloader etc.. not possible, I presume, if I want to use the dm-crypt module?
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11:12<teatime>dm-crypt is awesome
11:12<teatime>and everything you want works fine
11:12<teatime>unless you mean encrypting the windows partition also
11:12<oem>yes, encrypting the windows partition
11:12<teatime>no, you can't do that
11:12<teatime>windows doesn't know how to use a LUKS partition
11:12<oem>that's what I thought, you'd have to have the kernel running
11:13<teatime>and chainloading doesn't do anything like that
11:13<teatime>it just says, run this other bootloader in place of me
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11:13<oem>it's only possible if it's ran as a VM container inside of it
11:13<CJHRwew>and emulating windows within debian is a horrible idea by itself
11:13<teatime>oem: yes, you could do that
11:13<CJHRwew>But it's so so slow depending on what you want to do
11:13<CJHRwew>windows 7 anyway
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11:14<teatime>eh, people do it all the time.
11:14<teatime>assuming you have hw virtualization support
11:14<oem>the problem is that there's TRESOR that's installed a patch to the linux kernel and makes use of CPU debug registers to store the key -
11:14<oem>windows doesn't have anything like that
11:15<oem>so I'd have my decryption key stored in RAM, when using windows solely
11:15<CJHRwew>I'm wondering why my linux-firmware-nonfree package isn't loading with my card when using the command dmesg
11:15<teatime>hrm, I don't know anything about that oem
11:15<CJHRwew>It outputs nothing when I should get some BARTS .bin's loading
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11:16<oem>teatime: dm-crypt / cryptsetup / luks stores the decryption key in RAM by default, you can patch the kernel to make it store it in the CPU debug registers, so when pheds come they can't dump your "volatile" memory while simultaneonasly cooling it down :)
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11:17<teatime>oem: is the problem related to running a windows VM, or are you woried about windows vm stealing the key?
11:17<teatime>'cause the former definitely works.
11:18<oem>teatime: yeah, the idea of having Windows as a VM container and Linux sort of as a hypervisor does not sit very well with my head performance wise unfortunately
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11:18<oem>teatime: for local laptop use, that is
11:18<oldlaptop>oem: so they spray canned duster on the CPU instead
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11:18<oem>oldlaptop: :)
11:18<teatime>oem: you should try it
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11:18<CJHRwew>At least you'd have more security in whatever windows version you used
11:18<teatime>oem: assuming h/w extensions, it works pretty well. encrypted disk slows IO down some, but that's unavoidable.
11:19<CJHRwew>The security in Windows is swiss cheese
11:19<koollman>oem: on modern hardware, performances are ok (except for graphics)
11:19<teatime>koollman: PCI pass-through is practical now, I know people who game on a windows VM.
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11:20<teatime>but I don't think you'll get that working on an 'old laptop'
11:20<oem>more security, surely, that's the point of doing the whole thing, but performance wise it will be worse, ofcourse.. TOO BAD there's no such encryption scheme available to Windows that's avaialble to Linux that i'm aware of
11:20<koollman>teatime: yeah. but not very practical on a laptop.
11:20<teatime>oem: well, there's truecrypt. I don't keep up with it.
11:20<teatime>I trust dm-crypt more.
11:21<teatime>oem: I don't think the performance would actually be a problem though. unless, as koollman says, you want accellerated graphics.
11:21<oem>teatime: truecrypt blows compared to dm. performance bottleneck + there's no such thing as TRESOR, keys still stored in RAM
11:21<teatime>oem: but it works on windows and linux :)
11:22<teatime>but I think your instincts are correct to avoid it.
11:22<CJHRwew>Didn't truecrypt get compromised too?
11:22<oem>there's verycrypt now
11:23<oem>and librecrypt
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11:23<oem>but still the same security risks, keys in RAM
11:23<teatime>oem: fwiw, most of your files end up in ram too
11:23<divayth>Im on debian testing. When Im using vlc with VDPAU output to play a video my whole system freezes. Im not sure where to report this bug. On the one hand this could be something vlc can fix but on the other my whole system freezing seems to be a bug in some driver.
11:24<divayth>System freeze means it doesnt react to any input. Using SysRq to kill all processes sometimes eventually works after a long delay (I press the hotkey and it takes around 2 minutes then all the processes terminate). I dont see anything suspicous in syslog or kernel.log .
11:24<divayth>question being, what do I do? :)
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11:25<CJHRwew>my noob knowledge suggests you could use a proc command or some command to show the current process causing the hang
11:25<CJHRwew>but obviously either VLC is doing it or some other form of satan
11:25<divayth>one process shouldnt be able to hang my whole system, no matter what it does
11:26<oem>teatime: some get definitely cached, yes.. memory management is a pretty complicated topic :)
11:26<divayth>I ran htop alongside and saw vlc cpu usage spiking
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11:26<CJHRwew>hi babs
11:26<babs>am like new on parrot os and need some guides
11:27<babs>can u help me out
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11:31<lord_rob>how does that relate with debian?
11:31<musca>hi babs
11:32<babs>how are you musca
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11:33<musca>I feel like a human gateway to google
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11:35<CJHRwew>speaking of google
11:36<CJHRwew>related to problems with my drivers not loading, apparently IOMMU makes my graphics card bug out
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11:36<CJHRwew>disabling it would apparently break my network and some USB functions but I don't think that's related to why my dmesg isn't showing anything
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11:37<CJHRwew>anything concerning the output of my BART .bin's for my card anyway
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11:44<jordyblind>Hello all, I am a blind user of the pc and I am a little programmer.
11:44<jordyblind>I want to install a server with Linux as OS.
11:45<jordyblind>But I haven't help from a sighted person.
11:45<jordyblind>Can i install Debian with speech and braille?
11:45-!-CJHRwew [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:45<jordyblind>And if yes, how do I do this?
11:47<koollman>jordyblind: I think the support for speech and/or braille is in the installer by default. if your braille device is usb, it will be autodetected
11:47<divayth>I wrote to for anyone interested in my message from earlier (or reading this in the future :) )
11:47<teatime>this might help, jordyblind
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11:49<teatime>also perhaps ask in #debian-a11y
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11:50<jordyblind>what chanel is that: debian-a11y?
11:51<jordyblind>And my braille display isn't detected automatically. I use a Focus 40 Blue that normally is supported by brltty.
11:52<teatime>yes, debian-a11y
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11:52<teatime>(a11y is short for accessibility, but you probably know that.)
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11:58<oem>teatime: you still around by chance?
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12:00<oem>teatime: any idea what am I doing wrong?
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12:01<oem>teatime: everything? :)
12:02<teatime>quick question
12:02<teatime>why do you want to install this specific version of systemd?
12:02<oem>teatime: because I can't upgrade to 282-6, it requires a more recent udev
12:02<teatime>you mean 228-6?
12:03<oem>teatime: yes
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12:03<oem>teatime: I can't upgrade to a more recent udev just yet, because I have to recompile the kernel, as it requires a conf change that's not currenly in effect
12:03<dpkg>vinkers: vedi
12:04<oem>teatime: this is a SoC armhf board :)
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12:04<oem>teatime: the current problem seems to be with ifupdown, i'm not really sure what it wants
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12:05<dpkg>vinkers: Debian è un sistema operativo composto da software libero (un concetto distinto da quello di gratis): vedi per saperne di più.
12:05<oem>teatime: common sense tells me I need to downgrade ifupdown and downgrading to the version persent in the snapshot should be enough, but apparently not :)
12:05<teatime>systemd 228-3 or better
12:06<oem>teatime: but I can't just downgrade ifupdown as well?
12:06<teatime>you'll need to downgrade to a version of it compatible with systemd 228-2
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12:07<teatime>also aptitude does a little better at dependency resolving in broken situations
12:07<oem>ok, how do i establish the one that's suitable?
12:07<teatime>might try it, but pay attention to its solutions.
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12:09<teatime>what arch are you on again?
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12:11<oem>is it possible to check which v. of ifupdown would be compatible with systemd=228-2?
12:11<oem>via command line*
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12:12<teatime>it would have to be in one of your sources
12:12<teatime>I can't seem to find it online either
12:12<teatime>so I guess you'd have to go through each older version via
12:13<teatime>like add older snapshots to your sources and try/inspect each older version
12:13<teatime>there's no guarantee that you'll ever find a workable solution though
12:13<teatime>might be easier just to fix your kernel issue now.
12:14<oem>I see
12:14<oem>there's another thing I could do - install 228-4+b1
12:14<oem>however, I ran into a small issue
12:15<oem>I click 228-4+b1 respectively, get a list
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12:15<oem>I just need this .deb now: systemd_228-4+b1_armhf.deb
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12:16<oem>but it says:
12:16<oem>I add this to sources.list, right?
12:16<teatime>you take off the pool/main/s/systemd/ part
12:16<oem>deb testing main non-free contrib
12:16<oem>like this
12:16<teatime>and that assumes it was in testing on that date
12:16<averythomas>I want to connected my debian server to my router, how do I get it to work with a password?
12:16<teatime>it may have actually been in sid I think
12:17<oem>the issue was that upon updating the cache and searching I did _not_ get 228-4+b1 available via madison
12:17<oem>for some reason
12:17<teatime>it's kinda weird that the search thingy doesn't tell you that part
12:17<oem>but I might have messed up the the date
12:17<teatime>like what's the use of searching the pool, you need to search the releases
12:17<oem>a like bit of manual labor :)
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12:18<oem>also had to use "apt-get update -o Acquire::Check-Valid-Until=false"
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12:19<oem>otherwise it would decline updating due to release being too old
12:19<oem>ah, now it works
12:19<oem>I messed up the timestamp when adding to sources.list, the issue was that it kept giving old systemd version
12:19-!-vinkers [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:20<oem>so I was getting 228-2, instead of 228-4
12:22<oem>it downgraded to 228-4
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12:22<oem>successfully, at least I learned something :)
12:23<oem>one thing that escapes me though is why madison only offered 228-4 and not 228-4+b1
12:23<teatime>maybe the latter was not in testing only unstable
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12:24<oem>root@cb1:~# dpkg -s systemd|grep -i version
12:24<oem>Version: 228-4+b1
12:24<oem>I have a 100% identical another SoC board that has this in it
12:24<oem>and it runs stretch
12:25<oem>odd :)
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12:26<anonbmtz>rm -f ./*
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12:41<kewiha>I have a home server running Debian 8 with a ZFS array for my data. I've got a SSD I want to use as the boot disk. Previously I used a small ext4 drive as the boot disk, but would like to try a filesystem with hashing. ZFS, BTRFS, or stick to EXT4?
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12:42<chris_se>kewiha, well, if you're using ZFS anyway?
12:43<kewiha>How much of a nuisance is getting ZFS root if the SSD must be the boot disk (ie, contain/boot)?
12:43<chris_se>well, I presume you use the ZFS kernel module, right?
12:44<chris_se>so I don't know much about ZFS on Linux, but if you can mount a file system via mount -t zfs /dev/foo /mnt/bar and that works, then root as ZFS should work without much trouble
12:45<chris_se>/boot should be an extra partition with ext4 or so, because I don't think grub supports ZFS
12:46<chris_se>I just found the following:
12:46<chris_se> <- you decide if you want to live with that or not
12:48<chris_se>if you don't want ZFS root, then you might want to stick with ext4 - because it doesn't make sense to me to use two different file systems where you have to take a bit care because the linux support is still in relatively new
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12:53<averythomas>how do I fix: network is unreachable
12:53-!-gfedel [~gfedel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:53<chris_se>averythomas, what were you trying to do when this message appeared?
12:54<averythomas>I'm not able to connect to lan or outside network
12:54<averythomas>I tried ping
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12:54<chris_se>how did you boot? debian installer? debian live system? installed debian? which version? what did you do to configure your network?
12:55<somiaj>averythomas: what network card? wifi?
12:55<averythomas>Just installed debian on my server and it just booted from the server ssd
12:55<averythomas>wired network
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12:55<chris_se>averythomas, do you have a console with a root shell available?
12:55<somiaj>averythomas: what card? There are some wired cards that require non-free firmware. It coudl also be you need to configure your network correctly.
12:55<averythomas>it did say I needed no-free firmware but I ignored it
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12:55<averythomas>will that be a problem?
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12:56<chris_se>well, there you have it
12:56<chris_se>that's probably why it doesn't work
12:56<somiaj>averythomas: if your network card needs non-free firmware, it will not work without it. What network card?
12:56<averythomas>this is what I have,
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12:56<somiaj>averythomas: I don't want to look though specs, lspci -v, and look for the line that has your network card, get the chipset please.
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12:59<averythomas>broadcom corp netxtreme II BCM5708 gigbit ethernet
12:59<d1g1t4l>Hello, I have a stable debian with Cinnamon Version: 2.2.16-5 installed and I want install a 2.8.6-1 (available on testing). What I gona do?
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13:00<chris_se>averythomas, you need the firmware-bnx2 package (in non-free) for that to work
13:00<somiaj>d1g1t4l: you won't be able to easily install a newer version of cinnamon on stable without breaking stable.
13:00-!-thief_and_a_liar [~thief@2a02:fe0:c920:1111:a546:af65:3b75:5bbc] has joined #debian
13:00<somiaj>d1g1t4l: desktops are big package collections and usually are not backported, and backporting it yourself will take lots of work.
13:01<d1g1t4l>Humm... ok
13:01<somiaj>d1g1t4l: so your options are to run testing (and loose security support and most likely run across bugs) or just wait until testing freezes (durign the freeze testing is far nicer to run, though it still lacks as good of security support as stable)
13:02<somiaj>d1g1t4l: or just wait until the next release of debian, but that is most likely a few years away.
13:02<chris_se>note that testing freeze will start Feb. 5th, 2017:
13:02<d1g1t4l>somiaj: Where I find a list of freeze packages?
13:02<chris_se>d1g1t4l, freeze is something that happens to Debian before the next release
13:02<d1g1t4l>chris_se: Tnx
13:02<somiaj>d1g1t4l: there is no list, as chris_se pointed out, on feb 5th, testing will freeze. That means the packages in testing at that time will stop changing.
13:02<chris_se>there are no "freeze packages"
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13:03<d1g1t4l>Ok tnx
13:03<somiaj>all of testing freezes as the testing begings (probably about 4-6 months) and then a new release.
13:03<somiaj>d1g1t4l: I was just pointing that out as a time when testing gets less prone to new bugs and the focus is on fixing the current bugs.
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13:04<chris_se>somiaj, let's hope that this time it's going to be less than 6 months ;)
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13:05<averythomas>chris_se: how do I install the firmware now after the installation?
13:05-!-thief_and_a_liar [~thief@2a02:fe0:c920:1111:a546:af65:3b75:5bbc] has quit []
13:05<d1g1t4l>Tnx bye
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13:05<chris_se>averythomas, do you still have the installation CD/DVD/USB stick?
13:06<chris_se>put that in the drive (or USB port)
13:07<somiaj>chris_se: 6 months is fairly reasonable and I think about what their goal is (if I recall the new policy correctly). better than the year some freezes were.
13:07<somiaj>chris_se: are you sure his install media has the non-free packages. He'll probabaly just have to download it from and copy the .deb over
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13:08<chris_se>somiaj, Jessie was ~ 6 months and Niels Thykier mentioned in his DebConf15 talk that the freeze was too long and they want to try things to shorten it (which is why there's now a transitions freeze 2 months before and a soft freeze 1 month before)
13:08<averythomas>The usb is in the server and firmware-bnx2_0.43_all.deb is on the usb.
13:09<chris_se>averythomas, then do (as root): dpkg -i /path/to/firmware-bnx2_0.43_all.deb
13:09<chris_se>(after you mount it obviously)
13:09<somiaj>chris_se: jessie was much shorter than the two before it. But their policies are keeping getting more agressive for packages that are slow on fixing the rc bugs
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13:10<somiaj>chris_se: I think it was squeeze or wheezy that was about a year
13:11<chris_se>somiaj, for good reason, IMHO; a recurring pattern I saw was that some packages weren't updated until 2 weeks before the freeze, and then the entire fallout of that had to be fixed during the freeze
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13:11<chris_se>which in my eyes kind of defeats the purpose of testing
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13:16<kewiha>I thinking EXT4 is the way to go on my boot SSD, what kind of SSD-specific tweaks should be made during/following installation? TRIM?
13:17<chris_se>I haven't done any tweaks with ext4 on my SSD and am quite happy. *shrug*
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13:21<gas>Doesn't ext4 driver move the bytes around to avoid fragmentation?
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13:26<gas>I have a problem with flash sticks and SD cards... I can mount them and do everything, but today I messed up an NTFS flash drive.
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13:28<gas>I wanted to copy a big file there. I used a graphical manager; a progress bar showed some non-instant, but quick progress. "wow, quick", I thought, and clicked "eject volume". A notification popped saying that it can't be done, and I have to wait.
13:29<gas>And then there was nothing to indicate any activity: the drive was displayed as unmounted, no progress, nothing.
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13:29<somiaj>gas: are you using ntfs-3g or the default ntfs driver in the linux kernel?
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13:29<gas>So I waited for some time I thought would be enough and pulled the flash out.
13:30<gas>I saw ntfs-3g somewhere in the logs when I tried to understand what happened.
13:30<gas>But that's not the only case, the same thing happens with an SD card with FAT32.
13:31<salvocosta> !list
13:31<dpkg>salvocosta: vedi
13:31<somiaj>gas: if you unmount the drive it shoudl be fine. You can also run 'sync' to ensure the disk cache is flushed and written to any drives
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13:32<gas>sync command doesn't allow to specify which drive I need, so I would waste time on syncing all drives I have (I tried that, and that takes some time)
13:33<gas>And I don't understand what progress does it show me when it pretends to copy the data to the disk.
13:34<gas>Maybe, there is some option to disable this behaviour for SD cards and flash drives?
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13:35<kewiha>Discard is trim, right? I heard discard continously trims instead of issuing the commands every week or whatever, causing more wear. This is the case?
13:37<gas>kewiha: are you talking about my case? I don't quite understand...
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13:37<teatime>kewiha: that is not how TRIM works
13:37<kewiha>gas: No, just in general. I'm putting Debian on a new SATA SSD
13:38<Glass>in this channel i need to register my nick?
13:38<kewiha>teatime: So I just check the discard mount option and TRIM works nicely on SATA SSDs?
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13:39<teatime>it depends on your drives afaik
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13:39<teatime>scheduling it infrequently avoids performance issues w/ doing it frequently
13:40<teatime>(but frequently using it doesn't reduce drive lifetime)
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13:41<chris_se>Glass, /msg nickserv help
13:41<chris_se>specifially, /msg nickserv help register
13:41<Glass>ok ok thanks!
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13:57<gas>Some suggest watching the 'Dirty' field in /proc/meminfo when data is being copied. I started copying a large file to a flash and that value started quickly growing. I paused the copying when it reached 0.5 MB, and it started slowly going down. But when I cancelled the copy entirely, it didn't drop: it's still slowly going down and now I imagine I can't unmount the drive, even though I'm not copying anymore...
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13:59<gas>If I do pull the flash now, the filesystem will be messed up and only Windows will be able to fix it.
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13:59<chris_se>gas, the problem is that if you abort the copy, you only abort the program
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14:00<chris_se>but the dirty pages were already written by the program, so they remain
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14:00<chris_se>note that you can mount a drive with the 'sync' mount option
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14:01<gas>Can't the program drop that queue?
14:01<chris_se>that will make all writes to that device synchronous
14:01<gas>I read about that, and the manpage states it would "shorten the life" of flash drives
14:01<chris_se>gas, that queue is in the kernel, and no, a program cannot do that, because the way how the kernel works is that it has a virtual overlay over the device on a block-by-block basis in RAM and slowly writes that out
14:02<chris_se>so once that is written, the kernel doesn't know anymore which blocks are important and which aren't, so you have to write all of them out
14:02<chris_se>gas, that's true
14:02<gas>Besides, I don't know how to make XFCE choose sync for flash drives.
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14:03<gas>Isn't sync directly analogous to blocking I/O?
14:03<gas>Blocking writes wouldn't harm hardware, would they?
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14:04<chris_se>gas, sync is blocking I/O, yes
14:04<chris_se>and they can harm the drive to some extent because every update to a page will be immediately written
14:04<chris_se>so you perform more writes for file system metadata
14:04<gas>Aah, I see now.
14:05<chris_se>to be honest, I don't think that is _that_ problematic
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14:05<chris_se>but it is quite slow
14:05<gas>And now I understand why Windows reports the progress correctly but heats the flash drive
14:05<chris_se>(from experience)
14:06<gas>Or maybe not? It must be synchronizing often because when it reaches 100% on Windows, it's really there.
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14:07<chris_se>gas, windows may have a different strategy there, where it writes the data synchronously, but not the metadata or so
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14:08<chris_se>you can play around with dirty_expire_centiseconds
14:08<chris_se>(default is 30)
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14:09<chris_se>if you reduce that by a bit, maybe that will help your case (no experience with that however)
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14:10<gas>chris_se: I'm still thinking whether I am that kind of guy :)
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14:11<chris_se>gas, so from my personal experience with USB sticks: for 99% of things I do with them, I copy so little data there that writing it to the USB stick takes a couple of seconds at most
14:11<chris_se>=> default behavior is not a problem
14:11<chris_se>and for the very rare case that I do need to copy large amounts of stuff, I just wait after the copy has finished
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14:12<gas>I don't mind waiting, it's just that the progress bar reaches 100% too quick and then there is no way to see whether it's still going behind the scenes.
14:12<chris_se>I do think for external media the windows I/O scheduler is better when it comes to user feedback, and the Linux one could probably be improved in that regard, but I don't think this is a huge issue in practice
14:13<chris_se>gas, yes, but if it sticks at 100% for 5 seconds, I don't care. if it takes minutes, yes, that sucks, but I don't regularly copy _that_ much data to USB sticks
14:13<chris_se>(or SD cards etc.)
14:13<somiaj>I'm to use to cp, no progess bar so I may have not even noticed the progress bar ends before teh write is complete.
14:14<gas>No, no, it doesn't stick at 100%, it disappears as if the copying is done.
14:14<gas>The same with cp: it holds a little, and then exits, but the copying is still going on for 5 minutes
14:14<teatime>doesn't umount block until sync is complete?
14:15<gas>Yes, umount does block.
14:15<chris_se>then simple, start umount and wait until it returns :)
14:15<teatime>so it's just that the graphical tools don't provide useful feedback about that?
14:15<gas>Whereas XFCE just says "nah, can't eject"
14:16<gas>Probably yes
14:16<teatime>windows does the same thing
14:16<teatime>except it lets you retry over and over
14:16<gas>I never had that with windows
14:17<gas>It did piss me off when it refused to unmount at all, even if I wasn't copying anything
14:17<teatime>it's not like write caching is some new development
14:17<chris_se>gas, then XFCE is buggy in that regard
14:17<chris_se>if I do that with KDE, it just waits until umount is done and then gives feedback
14:18<gas>Oh, well...
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14:21<gas>I hope I haven't been bothering you guys too much. I try to search www for my problems but seem to hit those that are not very searchable.
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14:22<teatime>well if it works like you describe
14:22<teatime>sounds like it's worth a bug report to upstream
14:23<teatime>if it hasn't been fixed or reported
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14:24<chris_se>yeah, I suspect this could be annoying to other people as well
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14:24<chris_se>(xfce is quite popular, I believe)
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14:25<teatime>I dunno why but I never use graphical stuff for file browsing or mounting
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14:26<chris_se>for quickly copying something on an external drive it's quite nice (especially since the udisks command line tools are a bit "meh"), but for real work, I fully agree teatime
14:27<gas>I tried that again and noticed that after I hit "eject" and it refuses, "eject" becomes "mount" again. I didn't risk hitting "mount" at that moment. What's more important is that the drive's icon on the desktop disappears after some time, surely when it's done.
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14:27<chris_se>gas, that's definitely a bug in xfce then
14:27<gas>So maybe it's the intended behaviour.
14:27<chris_se>because the eject button shouldn't change to a mount button on error if it's still active
14:28<chris_se>the disappearing of the icon: yes, that's intentional, because you started an umount and once that was done in the background, xfce noticed it and removed the icon, that was fine
14:28<chris_se>the problem is the feedback of the umount action itself
14:29<averythomas>chris_se: I downloaded firmware-bnx2_0.43_all.deb put it on the server but when I do "dpkg -i firmware-bnx2_0.43_all.deb" it says "is not a debian format archive"
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14:29<chris_se>averythomas, then you did something wrong
14:29<averythomas>i'll try again xD
14:29<chris_se>what does "file firmware-bnx2_0.43_all.deb" say?
14:29<chris_se>on the server
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14:29<gas>teatime: If a friend gives me a USB key and I go to a terminal to "print magick" there intstead of hitting the icon, I get a reputation of a strange or pretentious person.
14:29<chris_se>this tells you the file type of a file
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14:30<averythomas>chris_se: Debian binary package (format 2.0)
14:30<chris_se>averythomas, ok, this is weird
14:30<chris_se>md5sum firmware-bnx2_0.43_all.deb
14:30<teatime>gas: lol
14:31<chris_se>don't copy everything, but it should start with: ccc2fdab
14:31<gas>I am also considered a freak for not using Skype...
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14:31<chris_se>gas, embrace your inner nerd :)
14:31<teatime>yes, you're among your own kind here.
14:32<gas>It's bad for business, sadly.
14:33<chris_se>averythomas, if the md5sum of the firmware deb doesn't start with ccc2fdab, then a mistake occurred while copying the file. if it does, then you need to tell me how exactly you entered the dpkg command
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14:36<averythomas>I think my usb partition is bad, gonna try that first
14:36<averythomas>this is my first time making an ext4 usb lol
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14:39<gas>I braced myself and tried hitting that "mount" option after hitting "eject". After a few minutes a big scary error popup suddenly showed telling a bunch of information: "error mounting", "Usage: ntfs-3g...", "Copyring (C) 2005-2007..." (looks like captured stderr)
14:40<gas>I'll try searching the bug tracker.
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14:54<averythomas>chris_se: the package installed successfully, reboot now?
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14:56<chris_se>that's the easiest solution, yes
14:56<averythomas>ok lets see what happens
14:56<chris_se>good luck
14:57<averythomas>this is my first debian install
14:58<chris_se>next time: be sure to be careful when you read the messages the installer gives you :)
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15:00<chris_se>(also note that in other cases firmware is not always necessary: sometimes you can still use your network card but only at reduced speeds - and things like that - it really depends on the situation)
15:01<somiaj>it is also rare that wired cards need firmware, and very common for wireless cards.
15:01<chris_se>somiaj, in desktop hardware that's true, for server hardware this is not so true anymore, unfortunately - there also wired cards often require firmware
15:02<somiaj>though if you don't care about using non-free software, debian provides it, it just isn't included in main so you clearly know it is non-free. There are also firmware intsallers that include the firmware.
15:02<somiaj>chris_se: and here I would think servers would go the other way. (:
15:02<chris_se>note that for stretch there are plans on splitting non-free into a firmware part and the rest, so you can enable only non-free firmwares but avoid non-free software
15:03<oem>what does non-free constitute here - is it only the copyright policy thing?
15:03<chris_se>oem, non-free means that it doesn't fulfill the DFSG (Debian Free Software Guidelines)
15:03<chris_se>which for the most part means either no source code or at the very least no right to modify the source code
15:04<chris_se>somiaj, server network cards often support a whole boat load of features that are quite complicated (iSCSI offloading for example), which is why firmware is more common there
15:04<oem>chris_se: so it's compiled by a 3rd party, if the source code is not provided?
15:04<chris_se>oem, in some cases: yes
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15:05<somiaj>oem: there are various reasons, sometimes it can just mean invariant lines in the documentation.
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15:06<chris_se>oem, for example the bnx firmware is compiled by the vendor, there's no source code available for it
15:07<chris_se>or the proprietary nvidia GPU drivers: for the glue code the source is available, but the major parts (like are compiled by NVIDIA
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15:08<chris_se>note that for Jessie there are 470 non-free packages (+ 250 in contrib), compared to > 42000 in main
15:09<oem>I see
15:09<chris_se>and the most useful stuff in non-free is a) firmware, b) drivers and c) GNU documentation
15:10<somiaj>chris_se: so funny how GNU is there. (:
15:11<chris_se>(Debian doesn't consider the GFDL license free if there are cover texts and/or invariant sections, but the GNU project does consider it free - which is why Debian puts the GNU docs in non-free; but even if you agree with Debian's decision to put it there, it is the _least_ non-free thing in there)
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15:12<otyugh>and GNU doesn't consider Debian as libre because they do have this nonfree section as part of the project. x)
15:13<chris_se>somiaj, I tend to agree with Debian's assessment: I get what the GNU project was trying to do with the GFDL, but I don't it's a good license - if I were to write significant documentation and wanted to put it under a copyleft license, I'd choose dual licensing CC-BY-SA/GPL
15:13<chris_se>otyugh, yes :)
15:14<chris_se>well, technically that's false: they consider Debian free (because they acknowledge that official Debian is only 'main' without 'contrib' and 'non-free') but they don't endorse it, because Debian makes it too easy to use non-free software for their tastes
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15:16<chris_se>and there have been ideas thrown around every now and then to make apt ask the user "do you really want to install this non-free piece of software?" so that users are aware of the fact that package X they are installing is non-free
15:16<chris_se>not implemented yet, though
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15:18<chris_se>(the real irony is that despite all the historic tensions between the GNU and Debian projects, Debian is the only major distribution where people are actually working on making a distribution with GNU's own kernel Hurd)
15:20<chris_se>(btw. while still quite buggy, Hurd is _very_ cool conceptually - I can only recommend trying it sometime - not for production use, but just to be inspired a bit)
15:20<somiaj>the fact that we common suggest non-free here is their main gripe in my opinion.
15:21<gas>I read somewhere that FSF funded Debian at the beginning.
15:21<gas>Maybe, there's a grudge because of that
15:22<vyasa>take me to hooter hospital
15:22<chris_se>(the very top)
15:22<vyasa>all the nurses are topless
15:22<vyasa>bad porno :/
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15:23<bluzeo>hey guys im trying install that installer but i cant spell it right... gedbi ???? right?
15:23<chris_se>do you mean gdebi?
15:24<chris_se>well, that's how you spell it :)
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15:24<bluzeo>i was close lol
15:25<gas>Hey, about that eject/mount problem I was asking, an xfce/debian guy says that behaviour makes sense to him.
15:26<gas>So it's not a bug then.
15:26<chris_se>gas, I haven't experienced it myself, so I can't comment with authority on that, but from your description I wouldn't say the behavior makes sense.
15:26<chris_se>(the icon disappearing: yes, that makes sense. the feedback after clicking the eject button: that doesn't make sense to me)
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15:27<gas>I reproduced it to be sure, but I know now to be careful.
15:29<gas>At least I have a bugzilla account now.
15:30<bluzeo>hey guys isnt unisitcker for getting an debain badge for my computer??
15:30<chris_se>I got my sticker at DebConf15
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15:32<bluzeo>i need an mug and badge for desktop - i am an huge debian fan
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15:41<bluzeo>ok wierd i cant find sound on my machine
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15:57<ivan_>how do i get the ip adress in terminal
15:57<muep>ip address
15:58<sney>'ip a'
15:58<sney>you can just type 'ip address' even.
15:59<muep>I thought "ip address" is a bit easier to remember :-)
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16:02<teatime>'ip addr' is a nice compromise
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16:06<Ozymandias>That was an amazing exchange.
16:07<teatime>aren't you a king or something
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16:07<Ozymandias>More of a pharaoh.
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16:18<oem>packages, i.e. like postfix, create conf files in /etc, such as aliases, mailname, etc.. is there a way I can find out all the files (paths) created upon installation?
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16:18<oem>I reckon I need to take a look at the source / install script?
16:19<teatime>dpkg -L prints most
16:19<dpkg>ii prints most 3.8-15.2 teatime's private stamp collection
16:19<teatime>but as you figure, not all
16:19<chris_se>note that postinst may call some program that in turn creates some file, so it's not always trivial to find all of them
16:19<oem>yeah, dpkg -L was my first course of action / doesn't cover the aforementioned files in /etc
16:20<chris_se>easiest way: spin up a VM, generate a list of files in /etc, install the package, generate new list, diff them
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16:20<oem>or use something like iwatch to monitor changes of the filesystem i guess
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16:35<teste>anyone there? I really need some help.
16:35<itd>teste: hello
16:36<itd>teste: just ask
16:36<teste>hey! I am developing a Debian-based GNU/Linux distribution.
16:36<teste>The version is 8.2, Jessie
16:37<teste>it's for visually impaired people, so it brings things like screen magnifier and screen reader.
16:37<teste>I took the minimal version of debian as a base
16:37<teste>from the command line, i installed and configured xfce and all needed programs.
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16:38<teste>i have the system set up and almost ready to use, but there's one bug annoying me
16:38<teste>i have to run 'sudo killall -9 pulseaudio' and then 'pulseaudio --start' every time i boot if i want to have sound
16:38<teste>i already added my user to sudo, audio, pulse and pulse-access groups, but nothing happens
16:39<teste>can you help me?
16:39<lindi-_>teste: this channel is for the debian distribution, if you have a derivative distribution it's not really on-topic
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16:40<teste>i can't even consider it a separate distribution, it's just Debian 8 live cd with a modified filesystem.squashfs
16:40<teste>any debian solution would work for me
16:41<teste>or, if you prefer,
16:41<lindi-_>teste: does the issue happen with the unmodified live cd?
16:41<teste>i haven't tested it, but i didn't touch anything that was previously on the filesystem
16:41<teste>i just added packages and configurations
16:43<teste>if you prefer, let's say that if i hipothetically had Jessie, what steps should i take to solve the problem
16:43<teste>better, huh?
16:43<lindi-_>teste: if sound doesn't work with the unmodified livecd then it probably is a bug indeed
16:44<lindi-_>teste: I personally don't know much about xfce unfortunately, I could debug this with gnome
16:44<teste>have in mind that i used the minimal version
16:44<teste>i started from a bare command line
16:44<lindi-_>teste: ah, then you probably missed something important
16:44<teste>i tried to log in into xfce as root, but sound does not work too
16:44<lindi-_>teste: start from working situation and remove packages until you find the one that causes it to break
16:44<teste>i have to run those two commands, then it works and i can use orca
16:45<amacater>Which is the default sound system for xfce?
16:45<teste>i don't think there is a default sound system for xfce
16:45<amacater>There may be a mixer app which will allow you to set the settings once for all
16:45<teste>i just got pulseaudio
16:45<teste>i tried to tweak pavucontrol, nothing
16:46<teste>also remember that xfce is just like gnome2,
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16:46<amacater>Debian 8.4 will be out within the next couple of weeks - try moving what you have to 8.3 (current Jessie if you've done all the updates)
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16:48<teste>will i do any harm if i directly update filesystem.squashfs' content to 8.3?
16:48<teste>or should i get the new ISO image before
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16:51<teste>also I think I'm very close to a workaround, i just need a script to run 'killall -9 pulseaudio' as root and then 'pulseaudio --start' with wichever user is logged in in xfce
16:51<lindi-_>teste: that doesn't really sound like a good solution :)
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16:51<teste>yeah, unfortunately i need a workaround until the bug or whatever this is is gone
16:52<lindi-_>teste: I'd test with the unmodified livecd first
16:52<teste>our team is a classmate and I, and we'll be presenting the system to our IT teacher next week
16:52<teste>we're going to show it in a science and technology fair
16:53<teste>and i need audio working out of the box to present Orca to the public
16:53<lindi-_>teste: ok
16:53<lindi-_>teste: I'm just saying that this would be the easiest way to figure out what the problem really is
16:53-!-benages [~quassel@2a03:c7c1:1:80::64a9] has joined #debian
16:53<teste>it's a very important project to me, I will finally be able to present GNU/Linux to everyone
16:53<lindi-_>teste: if the unmodified livecd does not work then the bug is clearly not something you caused
16:54<teste>i read the Debian wiki about pulseaudio problems
16:54<teste>and it tells me to run those commands, but does not show a solution
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16:54<lindi-_>teste: yeah I don't think those commands should be necessary at all
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16:55<teste>i'm going to test the unmodified live cd now in a netbook
16:55<teste>let's hope pulseaudio is present in the minimal version
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16:57<teste>one more thing, what is the best way to create a debian live usb?
16:57<lindi-_>teste: ah, I'd use the xfce livecd
16:57<teste>i tried dd, but it does not boot
16:57<teste>i tried 3 times
16:57<lindi-_>teste: dd works for me
16:58<teste>the best solution to this day was creating a loopback device from grub and loading the iso image there
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16:58<teste>then booting
16:58<lindi-_>teste: odd
16:58<lindi-_>teste: what hardware are you using?
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16:58<teste>specific hardware?
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16:58<lindi-_>teste: well, I've seen old laptops that don't boot from usb without some tricks
16:59<teste>my desktop does not boot from usb, but my netbook does
16:59<teste>none of them work
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16:59<lindi-_>teste: very odd
17:00<teste>anyway, that's a different story
17:00<teste>i'm booting the original iso now
17:00<lindi-_>teste: at least has worked here when I dd it to usb drive
17:01<teste>i use i386
17:01<teste>my cpu supports amd64, but i have 1512 mb of ram only
17:02<lindi-_>teste: RAM is not the only reason to use amd64 though
17:02<teste>here we go
17:03<teste>hmm no speaker-test
17:03<teste>lemme install it
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17:05<teste>what is the correct syntax to indicate wifi ssid and password in /etc/network/interfaces?
17:05<teste>i used ssid-psk and wpa-psk but i don't think it's correct
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17:07<lindi-_>teste: use the wpa_passphrase command to generate wpa-psk
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17:13<teste>got it, the syntax is actually wpa-ssid and wpa-psk
17:13<teste>now installing pulseaudio, let's then see
17:14<teste>are local mirrors reliable with debian?
17:14<teste>bc in ubuntu they sometimes cause problems
17:14<teste>i use the brazilian one
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17:19<r4ph431>hi, ACL are driving me crazy... especially the "X" group-permission which combined with -R recursive (and some other magic) makes my (regular) files magically group-executable!
17:19<teste>ok, i got the results
17:19<teste>installed pulseaudio and alsa-utils
17:19<teste>and ran 'speaker-test -t sine -f 1000'
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17:19<teste>also 'sudo speaker-test -t sine -f 1000', nothing
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17:20<teste>BUUT after 'sudo killall -9 pulseaudio' and 'pulseaudio --start' it doesn't work too!
17:21<teste>now that's strange
17:22<chris_se>r4ph431, what exactly are you trying to do and what is your solution so far?
17:24<r4ph431>chris_se: thx for the answer. I'm still trying to build a reproductible test-case. The main issue is that I'm in a situation (don't know exactly why) where `setfacl -R -m g:operator:rwX somedir` put g+x on every regumar files inside `somedir`.
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17:25<jmcnaught>teste: are you using the xfce-desktop live iso? why did you need to install pulseaudio?
17:25<teste>no, i am using the minimal iso
17:25<teste>i installed pulseaudio
17:26<teste>and then alsa-utils because it comes with speaker-test
17:26<jmcnaught>teste: why not use the xfce-desktop cd?
17:26<teste>because i don't have one
17:26<lindi-_>teste: the official live cd surely should come with pulseaudio preisntalled?
17:26<teste>i am using the modified live cd right now
17:27<teste>i don't think the minimal ones does
17:27<lindi-_>teste: test with the real xfce livecd
17:27<chris_se>r4ph431, do you use default ACLs or so?
17:27<teste>but debian wiki says that 'apt-get install pulseaudio' should work out of the box
17:27<teste>no configs needed
17:27<lindi-_>teste: the debian wiki can be wrong
17:27<r4ph431>chris_se: yes
17:27<jmcnaught>or if you don't want to use that for some reason, how are you installing xfce? there is a task-xfce-desktop package that should install everything xfce needs for a fully functioning desktop
17:27<lindi-_>teste: just start from the working configuration first, you can rule out hardware bugs, driver bugs and all that if you do it
17:28<chris_se>so the problem with -m ...:X is that as soon as ANY access control entry has the x bit set, the local entry will get +x *and* the mask will get +x
17:28<teste>but there's no working configuration
---Logclosed Sat Mar 05 17:33:14 2016
---Logopened Sat Mar 05 17:40:05 2016
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17:40<chris_se>r4ph431, it should be the other way round: if you have an ACE with rwx BUT a mask rw- then setfacl -R -m g:operator:rwX will change the mask to rwx
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17:41<chris_se>(because the ACE with rwx triggers the X to become a x for the new g:operator entry and because setfacl recalculates the mask by default, it will also set it to rwx then)
17:41<chris_se>(ACE == access control entry, in contrast to ACL == access control list)
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17:43<chris_se>note that the the normal "group execute bit" is the mask when posix acls are used
17:43<chris_se>so ls -l shows the mask instead of the *actual* group execute bit
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17:45<chris_se>(and the *actual* group execute bit, which getfacl displays as g::YYY, is still different from the *effective* group access bit that's used to check permissions, which is given by the logical AND of the mask and the real group access bit)
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17:46<CJHR>So, is anyone that I didn't talk to last time good with AMD driver stuff?
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17:47<r4ph431>chris_se: I'll have to spend the next hour to really understand all you meant, but I'm pretty sure it'll help me to understand the issue
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17:48<r4ph431>I indeed saw that even after a chmod g-x, the issue pop up again as long as I don't `setfacl -m g::rw` to "effectively" remove the "x" bit
17:50<chris_se>-m g::rw doesn't effectively remove the x bit, it removes the actual x bit of the member group
17:50<chris_se>the effective x bit can already be gone if the mask is just rw-
17:50<r4ph431>I need to test this
17:50<chris_se>however, for the purpose of X, the actual x bit still counts as x, so rwX becomes rwx - but then setfacl will recalculate the mask and hence set it to rwx
17:51<chris_se>hence use -n to disable setting the mask with that call
17:52<chris_se>however, if you want to make sure that the other two bits (rw) are definitely used, you WANT to recalculate the mask for those - that's why you'd need two calls - the first one just for rw (without X) that does recalculate the mask and the second one with -n and rwX that doesn't recalculate the mask
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17:52<chris_se>(that still doesn't cover a very weird corner case, but should be good enough for you)
17:53<chris_se>posix acls may seem weird at first, because they often don't immediately react as one might naively expect - but they are in fact quite clever once you understand what went into them
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17:53<chris_se>(because they provide a certain level of compatibility with programs that don't understand them)
17:53<teatime>you know, I've managed to be almost 15 years deep into a career as a unix sysadmin
17:54<teatime>and I have never needed more than user/group/other
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17:54<teatime>that I can remember, anyway
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17:55<r4ph431>teatime: I've multiple php-fcgi users, some files needed to be accessible by apache, isolation between vhosts, and operators to manage files manually. I fear that, even if complex, ACL are the right tool
17:55<chris_se>teatime, that's funny. just months after first using linux I wished there was something more than u/g/o for some use cases - and once I discovered ACLs, I was *really* happy
17:55<chris_se>(I discovered ACLs far later, because they didn't exist in Linux when I first started using it)
17:56<chris_se>r4ph431, you might also want to look into default ACLs on directories
17:56<teatime>r4ph431: the closest I've came to needing ACLs / the ugliest ugo solutions I have in place, are indeed about files etc. that should be readable by web server and editable by certain users
17:57<r4ph431>chris_se: I've now have such a file : -rw-rw-r--+ with "mask::rw-", "group::--x" (effective:---), "group:operator:rwx" (effective:rw-)
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17:57<chris_se>r4ph431, the effective is what is used for access control
17:57<chris_se>so if that's what you want, then everthing's fine
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17:57<r4ph431>I simulate the recursive run, by simply doing : "setfacl -m g:operator:rwX robots.txt"
17:57<r4ph431>(robots.txt is the file :))
17:58<r4ph431>the mask changed to mask::rwx
17:58<r4ph431>(and it gets the g+x)
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17:58<chris_se>mask == group bit
17:58<chris_se>(IF acl is present)
17:58<chris_se>if you reset the ACLs on that file and try instead: setfacl -n -m g:operator:rwX robots.txt then the mask WON'T be changed
17:59<chris_se>-> not group-executable
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18:00<r4ph431>I need to read again all you right above because I'm still puzzle about why this X affected the file at all (I'd say that the code just say `it's a regular file, do as if "X" hadn't been specified`
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18:04<chris_se>r4ph431, it affected the file because g::rx and g:operator:rwx was present BEFORE you ran the command
18:04<chris_se>the problem is that X looks at actual permissions (not effective ones)
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18:05<chris_se>so while effectively, due to the mask being rw-, the permissions didn't include an x bit, the actual ACEs did - so X triggered to become x in that case, so you effectively ran -m g:operator:rwx - and since setfacl recalculates the mask, the mask is now also set to rwx
18:05<chris_se>if you try the same command with -n, that won't happen
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18:15<r4ph431>chris_se: how do I remove the actual ACL group +x from a file (group::r-x) ? `setfacl -x g::x` won't do it. `chmod g-x` won't do it. `setfacl -m g::rw` will, but it's a permission replacement rather than a removal.
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18:16<chris_se>you have to replace permissions for non-named groups
18:16<chris_se>so g::, u:: and o:: can only be replaced, can't be removed
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18:16<chris_se>you can only remove something that is named, such as u:foo: or g:bar:
18:16<chris_se>(because u::, g:: and o:: are always present, because they originate from the original access rights)
18:16<r4ph431>more exactly I mean altering the bitmask. Eg: remove the x bit for group without touch r or w
18:17<r4ph431>(like the g-x for chmod)
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18:19<chris_se>I don't think that's possible
18:19<chris_se>at least not with setfacl
18:20<r4ph431>(since I now consider that preexisting x permissions on regular files are unproper permission which are the main origin of the issue, I intend to remove them, but I'd rather not take the risk to reset the whole group bit (using a recursive g=rw rather than g-x))
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18:27<chris_se>r4ph431, you can use a python script for that. install the package python3-pylibacl
18:27<chris_se>and run the following script:
18:28<chris_se>usage: ./ filename
18:28<chris_se>(only accepts one file)
18:28<chris_se>will remove the execute bit from *any* group entry in the file
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18:29<chris_se>you could use it like this: find somedir -type f -print0 | xargs -0 -n1 ./
18:29<chris_se>would apply it to every file
18:29<r4ph431>wow... fantastic
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18:30<chris_se>also: only use it once you tested it a bit, it doesn't have ANY error handling ;)
18:32<chris_se>so just looked at setfacl source code: nope, doesn't support removing things like chmod does
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19:23<r4ph431>I think I've solved the issue chris_se! A big thx for your invaluable help. I keep this in irc logs for further reference/
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20:12<JSON-Debian>I've recently created a samba server on a Debian box. While I can read/write the files fine on my Windows desktop I can not seem to connect to it on my debian laptop. How can I troubleshoot this?
20:13<somiaj>JSON-Debian: what you are using to try to connect to the server?
20:14<somiaj>do you have the samba-client or whatever plugin you need for your filemanager installed? Could it be a user issue where it is trying to use the username of the account you are on and not the guest user or the user for the samba server?
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20:15<JSON-Debian>I've tried using both iceweasel and pcmanfm. I have samba-client installed. Now that you mention it, it is probably a user issue. I have the server set to accept only one user named "install".
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20:16<JSON-Debian>The thing is, ive tried connecting with the user name "smb://install@'servername'/", but it still didnt seem to like it.
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20:19<somiaj>I'm unsure how the different samba clients work. I only ever used the command line one via cifs-mount to mount the shares. Never tried to use a file manager to browse them
20:19<somiaj>but in yoru case you need to ensure that either iceweasel or pcmanfm have the correct plugins to access samba and I don't use such tools so I am unsure.
20:19<somiaj>if you have samba-client installed, you can use that from the command line to request info from the server to see if it is working
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20:22<JSON-Debian>Its just a bit strange that it worked immediately on my windows desktop. I'm unfamiliar with the smbclient command, when it asks for a password, should I input my personal computer's password, or the server's password that im trying to connect to?
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20:26<Griz>will installing gfx-alternative-mesa break the xorg-server, or such?
20:27<Griz>I run debian 8 64bit intel integrated graphics
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20:45<somiaj>Griz: it shouldn't, but I thought intel was using mesa by default.
20:45<somiaj>JSON-Debian: Well it is a windows file system protocol. man samba-client
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20:46<somiaj>JSON-Debian: It is probabaly you need the correct plugin for pcmanfm to connect, I doubt icewesel connects to samba servers
20:47<somiaj>some google pacges suggest you could jsut be missing the packages needed for pcmanfm samba support. But I'm unsure one hwich ones
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20:48<JSON-Debian>I've installed pretty much everything I can think of. I have every gvfs package, samba packages,
20:48<somiaj>JSON-Debian: fuse-utils?
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20:49<JSON-Debian>hmm... fuse-utils is not avaliable but is referred to by another package.
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20:50<somiaj>ahh that is just an old package, it was transitioned to just 'fuse'
20:50<somiaj>JSON-Debian: do you have fuse installed?
20:50<JSON-Debian>I do.
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20:51<somiaj>JSON-Debian: smbclient -L hostname
20:52<JSON-Debian>after doing that, my terminal hangs for several minutes.
20:55<somiaj>Does it eventually popout info about the server?
20:55<somiaj>try an ip over the hostname?
20:55<JSON-Debian>The samba share is named "server" after looking at smbtree's output. I guess that means my computer recognizes the server is there but cant actually connect to it.
20:55<JSON-Debian>I'll try an ip.
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20:55<JSON-Debian>It never seems to say anything back.
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20:56<JSON-Debian>smbclient -L 'ip' gives an "Error NT_STATUS_CONNECTION_REFUSED"
20:56<JSON-Debian>should I not be using -L?
20:57<somiaj>man smbclient for more info, that should just list the servers capaiblities
20:57<somiaj>it says -I might be helpful if you have issues matching the netbios/hostnames
20:58<Griz>somiaj: it is using mesa, but it doesn't have glx. I am building an app but it crashes. This is the error. GLXBadFBConfig. It is missing some kind of dependencies. Trying figure out what
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20:58<somiaj>I think you'll be fine, and you may just need the -development libaries
20:59<JSON-Debian>it seems like its just flat out refusing my connection.
20:59<JeremyE77>Change (if you hadnt)( [bind to interfaces only] line in smb.conf to false and reload --- see how you get on
20:59<JeremyE77>unless the other machine is windows. Then IDK
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21:01<JSON-Debian>The line was already commented out
21:01<JSON-Debian>I changed it anyways, no luck.
21:02<JeremyE77>you are not firewalling on the server?
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21:03<JeremyE77>can you telnet to port 139?
21:05<JSON-Debian>running 'telnet tserv 139' doesnt seem to be working from the server. perhaps there is a port issue.
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21:15<JSON-Debian>I might just throw in the towel and switch to an ftp server instead.
21:15<JeremyE77>of course, Make sure the server is running, another thing to check might be RUN MODE (on the server) daemon is a good choice. Other than that I am out of idears
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21:16<somiaj>JSON-Debian: if you just want to copy files, you can use scp or rsync with only a ssh server running
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21:17<JeremyE77>Yeah. If it is a one off ^
21:18<somiaj>i.e. I woud suggest that over ftp
21:18<JSON-Debian>Since the smb works on my windows machine, theres no real point in deleting it. I guess i could make an ssh server and use scp. Thanks for the suggestion guys.
21:19<JeremyE77>Sorry, couldnt get it. Difficult in the texts sometimes :(
21:19<somiaj>JSON-Debian: wonder if it is some route issue, you should be able to connect via samba on a linux client.
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21:22<JeremyE77>if it's still not working and you don't feel heavily invested. it might be tempting to purge the samaba packages and start fresh. Could be some cruft from a previous version or something. Ssometimes when I hit a brick that gets it done
21:23<JeremyE77>That is of course heavy handed troubleshooting but it works in the hardest pinches usually
21:23<JSON-Debian>This is my 3rd purge :D oh well. I've already gotten scp up and running, I guess my network is a bit convoluted, but it works.
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21:24<JeremyE77>ok. Just tossing it out therr :)
21:24<JeremyE77>Seems like your network might be playing with you or windows firewall or something
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21:29<bluzeo>hey guys i am needing some help on this i friend of mine and me are trying to show our system - it inixi-s right??
21:30<bluzeo>or is it uname-a??
21:31<somiaj>bluzeo: what do you mean by show your system? There are various things, uname -a gives you info about the kernel, lsb_release -a will give you more info about the actual release (provided lsb is isntalled)
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21:33<bluzeo>im trying show my graphic card
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21:33<somiaj>bluzeo: it shoudl be listed in lspci
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21:42<bluzeo>ok that anwser his ? about the other stuff like the senors :) also since i never is inxi much
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21:49<JeremyE77>take the cover off
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22:07<dpkg>Before buying any hardware, make sure it is supported by all operating systems you want to use; ask me about <hcl>. To acquire details about your current hardware, ask me about <whats my hardware>. Please ask all non-Debian-specific hardware questions in ##hardware on
22:09<q__>##hardware has only user it's me, so?
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22:12<gfedel>q__ the channel ##hardware is in another irc server (
22:12<themill>q__: wrong irc network
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22:15<q__>i can not post on that irc network channel, so?
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22:16<q__>where can get in the end of ends?
22:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 742] by debhelper
22:19<q__>i hate english, anyone speaking russian, пидоры?
22:20<teatime>We all hate the English.
22:21<q__>уже лучше
22:21<dpkg>Это английскоговорящий канал, пожалуйста, говорите по-английски или посетите #debian-russian ( (Russian speakers please go to #debian-russian)
22:21<somiaj>q__: as for ##hardware on, you should ask them. It could be they require you to register. You should check out #freenode on for this info.
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22:22<musca>good time for choosing a friendly nick
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22:25<q__>somiaj they piss up 0 staff:)
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22:26<q__>somiaj sorry for my eng *write up*
22:27<q__>musca for what?
22:27<somiaj>q__: so? this is not the appropriate place to get support on a irc channel on another network.
22:27<q__>for who?
22:27<musca>i don't know how to pronounce "q__"
22:28<themill>q__: over on freenode, you want to /msg nickserv help register
22:29<q__>musca do not mind, what is your offer?:)
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22:34<Cheeki>Anyone home?
22:34<q__>musca, themill it's waste of time, i just want you to know i would not buy any electronic devices without electronic scheme in the future
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22:36<Cheeki>Should I ask for help here or is there a specific channel I should go to?
22:37<teatime>dpkg: ask?
22:37<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
22:38<Cheeki>My lxterminal settings don't stick, I'm on the most recent version of debian (I'm pretty sure) and when I set the text color to white and then close the window, it goes back to grey
22:38<Cheeki>root terminal settings stick fine though
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22:58<bluzeo>hey guys - im looking for an script and i cant find it on github it driving me nuts.... it the script that show current setup
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23:39<bluzeo>hey guys i got an ? for an project i want to sart but i am at an lost even with the cost of it - i want to start an internet radio station runing Debain servers
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---Logclosed Sun Mar 06 00:00:24 2016