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#debian IRC Logs for 2016-03-15

---Logopened Tue Mar 15 00:00:23 2016
---Daychanged Tue Mar 15 2016
00:00<seneka> file /dev/sdb
00:00-!-Coestar [] has quit []
00:00<twb>roam: I dunno
00:01<somiaj>lancelot: from my experience the only way to get full flash support is using non-free plugins. The free plugins seem to be hit and miss on what sights they can deal with.
00:01<roam>twb: earlier you said something about proprietary browsers and I'm wondering if it was these two you were talking about
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00:02<lancelot>somiaj : is pepper as complete as adobe's?
00:02<somiaj>lancelot: pepper is googles version of adobe's. So It really is just adobe with google mataining it, distributing it and makign it run on linux (with adobe's legal permission)
00:03<twb>roam: I was thinking opera and IE, but I dunno anymore
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00:03<lancelot>alright...i'll just surrender to big corporations...
00:03<somiaj>lancelot: it is the only way I know of to get an up to date flash in linux (if non-free is okay with you) and there is the plugin for chromium and a wrapper to make it work with NAPI for iceweasel and others.
00:03<roam>twb: i think it's partially google's fault for giving flash a lifeline too
00:03<somiaj>lancelot: there are ways to get watch videos and get around lots of flash requirements, but not all in my limited experience.
00:03<twb>lancelot: when adobe abandoned flash on linux, google got the source code and kept maintaining it inside chrome. This is called "pepper flash" because it uses NaCl instead of nsapi plugin method
00:04<twb>As a joke because NaCl is table salt
00:04<lancelot>i don't who i distrust the most, adobe or GOOGLE
00:04<seneka>before packages going to repositories, sourcecodes readed be someone, who read it all and can say "it is no NSA-shit"?
00:04<lancelot>an insider
00:05<somiaj>seneka: this is the responsabilities of the matianers, but I don't think there is any major self audit that has checked everything.
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00:05<seneka>so packages can be with troyan/backdoor?
00:06<somiaj>seneka: sure, it is always a matter of trust at some level unless you personally go read and understand all billions of line of code for the software running on your system.
00:06<twb>NSA does not need to insert backdoors.
00:06<twb>There are plenty of bugs already
00:06<somiaj>seneka: there are various groups of people doing audits, checking for security holes and stuff could come up in these audits.
00:06<roam>somiaj: but then there's the chance of firmware backdoors, eh?
00:07<twb>Then when the bug is found, there is no evidence the NSA already knew it
00:07<lancelot>,v shumway
00:07<judd>No package named 'shumway' was found in amd64.
00:07<somiaj>roam: this is a higer trust because you can't audit it yourself, but you can test it. Though I'm one who doesn't worry to much about firmware since it is on my hardware anyways.
00:07<seneka>also, how to check sourcecode (if someone know programming language on what it writed and know other nuances, how he did that) - how to see sources?
00:08<roam>jodd: shumway is a part of the nightly builds of fx
00:08<somiaj>seneka: every package in debian main you can download the source code from a deb-src that contains everything used to make the package.
00:08<jmcnaught>roam: judd is a bot
00:09<twb>somiaj: you can run linux on the controller chip on a HDD
00:09<somiaj>seneka: so yes everything in debian main you can read though it yourself if you desire. non-free is different, many closed sourced binaries dont' give this feature which is one thing to think about when using non-free software.
00:09<roam>jmcnaught: i was suspicious of the good grammar and neat formatting
00:09<lancelot>get used to talking to robots
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00:09<somiaj>twb: and there are various open firmware bioses out there as well. But in terms of many non-free firmware, the hardware that doesn't require it may just have the firmware on the hardware.
00:09<twb> --- are you afraid yet?
00:10<twb>That's not the motherboard firmware, that's the HDD controller
00:10<twb>Like you buy a HDD from a foreign country, that is already back-doored
00:11<lancelot>, pepperflashplayer
00:11<twb>lancelot: /msg dpkg pepperflashplayer
00:11<lancelot>i'm still doubtful
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00:12<seneka>i use cat /proc/* and have ... glitch?
00:12<somiaj>lancelot: do you want the chromium PAPI plugin or the iceweasel plugin?
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00:13<twb>seneka: do not cat /proc/*, only specific things
00:14<seneka>ok. but why is so?
00:14<somiaj>you don't really want to cat directories
00:15*seneka dont really want to cat directories
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00:20<seneka>i need to try to install debian to ssd.
00:20<seneka>i'm be back.
00:21<seneka>thx all.
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00:28<bignose>What is the APT equivalent for ‘dpkg --get-selections’?
00:28<bignose>I want to transfer all the state information about installed packages, to a different machine
00:29<bignose>including whether the pacakge was installed automatically as a dependency.
00:29<somiaj>!aptitude clone
00:29<dpkg>To clone a Debian machine using aptitude (or install your favourite packages) use aptitude search --disable-columns -F%p '~i!~M!~v' > package_list; on the reference machine; xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < package_list; aptitude install; on the other machine. This preserves information about "automatically installed" packages that other methods do not. See also <reinstall>, <things to backup>, <debian clone>, <apt-clone>.
00:29<somiaj>bignose: not one ofr apt, but for aptitude
00:30<bignose>wow. there isn't that capability in an easy-to-remember command?
00:30<dpkg>rumour has it, apt-clone is a utility to clone/restore the packages on an apt-based system. It will save/restore the packages, sources.list, keyring and automatic-installed states. It can also save/restore no longer downloadable packages using <dpkg-repack>.
00:30<somiaj>bignose: seems there is a tool, though I like aptitudes capaiblities and you don't have to install extra softawre for that.
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00:31<bignose>somiaj: thanks.
00:31<teatime>somiaj: aptitude uses the same db for auto marking as apt-get now.
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00:31<bignose>teatime: which one changed to use the other?
00:32<bignose>teatime: or – I hope? – they both changed to converge on a common solution?
00:32<teatime>I beleive it was aptitude that changed, but its ability to remember auto-installed packages pre-dates apt-get's.
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00:32<teatime>bignose: at any rate, they share a common solution now.
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00:33<somiaj>teatime: I know, my comment was 'apt-clone' is the additional that would have to be installed.
00:33<somiaj>bignose: either tool will work. I'd just suggest using aptitude
00:33<somiaj>and now there is an actual 'apt' that is differnt than apt-get, apt-cache, atp-foo
00:34<teatime>it's installed by the same package as apt-get
00:34<bignose>I guess I'm surprised that the standard tool doesn't have that capability in a simple “export” and “import” UI
00:34<somiaj>I do like its colored output, but still getting use to not typing -get at the end of it.
00:34<bignose>the way ‘dpkg’ does.
00:34<roam___>somiaj: but 'apt' is brown by default
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00:37<teatime>bignose: you could also use aptitude easily to make two lists, one of installed-and-marked-auto and one of installed-and-not-marked-auto
00:38<teatime>apt-clone sounds like a winner to me, though.
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00:40<teatime>apt-mark, from the apt package, also appears to have the capability
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00:41<themill>or apt-get dselect-upgrade
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00:43<roam>isn't keeping both apt-get and aptitude sort of redundant?
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00:44<somiaj>roam: they have different logic and each have their uses. I switch between them depending on what I need to do
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00:44<somiaj>roam: you can /msg dpkg why apt-get, why aptitude, why not apt-get, why not aptitude
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00:45<teatime>'why not apt-get' is pretty amusing.
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00:46*roam chuckles
00:46<Juest>roam: apt-get is pure cli, aptitude is like a text synaptic
00:47<somiaj>I always forget about that feature of it.
00:47<teatime>me too.
00:47<roam>and then there's dpkg
00:47<somiaj>and there are still those who use dselect
00:47<roam>doing all the dirty work
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00:48*roam removes libc via dpkg
00:49*roam has recovered precious disk space!
00:49<roam>how much work would it take to merge aptitude and apt-get?
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00:50<bignose>somiaj: it's strange, I encounter lots of people who think ‘aptitude’ is only a non-interactive tool, and other people who think it's only an interactive tool.
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00:50<bignose>it seems that that when a person runs it one way, they think that's the *only* way that it works.
00:51<bignose>no matter whether that way is the full-screen interactive, or the command-line non-interactive.
00:51<somiaj>bignose: I only use aptitude for its search flags, and apt-get for almost everythign else.
00:51<bignose>roam: AFAIK they are completely different architectures, and even (?) different programming languages.
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00:51<teatime>and there's no compelling reason to
00:52<roam>...a compat interface for one of them?
00:52<bignose>it speaks to the strength of APT that multiple independent implementations can work so smoothly on the same package management system.
00:52<teatime>they're compatible with each other, and people are used to one or the other (or more likely, use both)
00:52<teatime>so what's the point
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00:53<roam>afaik arch only has pacman
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00:55<roam>~sort of, but you get my point
00:55<teatime>tbh no, I fail to see the relevance
00:55<jmcnaught>jessie also has "apt" as a third option
00:56<roam>i was thinking it'd be easier to manage one utility instead of having two^H^H^Hthree play feature leapfrog with each other
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00:56<teatime>there's more than 3.
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00:56<teatime>and there's little feature leap-frogging.
00:56<teatime>some, but not much.
00:57<roam>if they're completely different architectures, wouldn't the same features have to be reimplemented multiple times though?
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00:57<teatime>that work is already done, though.
00:58<teatime>and I doubt there'll be a lack of people willing to maintain apt-get or aptitude any time soon.
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00:58<teatime>variety is the spice of life :) bbl.
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01:01<bignose>roam: by which I mean the architecture of the program is independent and completely different.
01:01<bignose>roam: the APT system is the same in all cases.
01:01<bignose>roam: i.e. all of the tools use the APT low-level libraries to interact with the system. they build completely different interfaces on top of that.
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01:02<bignose>this is a good thing because it means someone who has a great new idea for how users could interact with APT can use the same library while building a completely different tool.
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01:03<roam>more frontends, yay
01:03<bignose>instead of a single tool just stagnating because it's been around for a decade and it sucks but nobody dares to mess with it.
01:03<roam>arch has wrappers for it
01:04<roam>also, having aptitude and apt-get nearly match each other in terms of features sound a bit like reinventing the wheel
01:04<bignose>making wrappers around a complex high-level tool is always going to be much more fragile, than building a new tool on the low-level libraries and ignoring the old tool.
01:04<bignose>c.f. Git.
01:05<bignose>if Git were just a library and we were free to build a much better UI tool on top of the low-level library, it'd be possible to improve
01:05<bignose>but instead we are stuck with a gazillion different commands which need to be supported forever because who knows what depends on them.
01:05<bignose>hence Git will be shit, forever.
01:06<bignose>that's the “wrap a new thing around the old thing” way. no, thanks.
01:06<roam>don't programs usually provide wrappers (or similar) so legacy commands will continue to function?
01:06<bignose>roam: it's the difference between wrapping a low-level library of primitive operations (good)
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01:07<somiaj>roam: there is more history than that. Aptitude added the curses interface which in terms of its development added new features.
01:07<bignose>toaversus wrapping an entire complex user-facing tool, in another layer of complexity (bad).
01:07<somiaj>roam: these features were then added to apt at a later date and so forth.
01:07<roam>dpkg is somewhat user-facing
01:07<dpkg>i don't know, roam
01:08<roam>dpkg, you're a bot that talks with other people. obviously user-facing
01:08<dpkg>roam: are you smoking crack?
01:08<roam>reminds me of a bsd sudo joke
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01:10<roam>so there's dpkg, which is . . . something awesome. and there's apt-get and aptitude, which are roughly the same since apt-get caught up[citation needed]. where does the new 'apt' command fit in? i think it's a separate binary, but what is it, exactly?
01:11<somiaj>roam: the new apt is just the code from apt-get, apt-cache, etc all put under a single binary. It isn't a wrapper though, but it also isn't a new rewrite and comes from the same source.
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01:12<somiaj>roam: there are really only two tools, aptitude and apt (which constitutes multiple binary)
01:12<roam>ok, so apt,aptitude
01:12<roam> dpkg
01:12<roam>is apt-get/cache/file/etc going away soon?
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01:13<somiaj>roam: I woudln't put dpkg in that list, as it is a tool for a differnt job.
01:13<roam>i must be using dpkg wrong, then
01:13<somiaj>roam: part of what makes it seem like a lot of tools is apt created various binaries, but they have alawys been refered to as apt. There is now also an apt binary.
01:13<teatime>roam: if you know RH, think of Apt as yum and dpkg as rpm
01:13<teatime>You may find this and the following section education:
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01:14<somiaj>roam: dpkg cannot resolve dependencies and know about packages that are not in your system. dpkg can only determine if dependencies can be satsified in the current packages in your system and deal with the actual managing of the packages.
01:14<somiaj>roam: apt and aptitude are able to resolve dependencies using a whole database of installable packages (not just packaged installed) and then use dpkg to do the actual installing/removing/manging the packages
01:15<somiaj>i.e. dpkg -r foo will error out if something depends on foo (dpkg is not designed to resolve dependencies)
01:15<roam>would me trying to write a script to crunch the dpkg error messages be a bad idea?
01:15<roam>--force-all is my friend
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01:15<somiaj>roam: what are you trying to write a script for and not just use apt/aptitude, as these tools already have the ability to resolve the dependencies
01:16<somiaj>I'd say you are doing something wrong if you are having to use --force-all that often (or at all)
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01:16<roam>curiosity. just asking b/c docs only go so far
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01:18<shawn>if you have dependency issues it's best to think about what caused it and reverse it, so i would want to do that manually
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01:18<roam>i forgot the situation, but none of the front end tools would budge
01:19<roam>so i downloaded the debs manually and used dpkg w/ --force-all
01:20<somiaj>roam: this shouldn't happen in stable unless you are using third-party repos that aren't tested for stable.
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01:20<roam>it was bad, but it made the front-ends very happy afterward
01:20<somiaj>but in #debian-next having to do stuff comes up here and there, though I think I have had to use --force-all less times than I can count on my fingers while running sid for 12+ years
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01:23<roam>are apt-.* tools going to be deprecated?
01:26<somiaj>roam: I don't belive so. They are just such core tools, if on a deb system one expects apt-get to be there and I don't think there is much harm in it as apt and apt-get use the same apt liabaries and codebase
01:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 727] by debhelper
01:28<roam>alright. what about the ip/ifconfig thing for Linux?
01:28<roam>will the unified apt binary be like ip, eventually?
01:29<roam>(obviously, we're keeping aptitude)
01:31<somiaj>time will tell.
01:31<somiaj>but since ip and ifconfig are different sources, I think it is a bad anology
01:31<somiaj>apt and apt-get are the same source code base, just different binaries it creates
01:35<roam>ifconfig and ip are different internally, but the interface they present are similar. probably similar enough that there'll be migration scripts someday that emulate the old ifconfig/etc tools for other programs
01:35<roam>Nonetheless, I think I understand the rationale behind the DBian pkg management systems a bit better now.
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01:40<roam>'stable' really does mean stable
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01:42<roam>okay, last question: how does one get a 'moron' out of the dpkg bot?
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01:55<roam>ok, then. that's it for me. thank you all
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02:06<smokeysea>Guys, how can I disable touchpad of my laptop?
02:07<smokeysea>its giving uncontrolled seeks
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02:40<jm_>smokeysea: you can do that by writing xorg.conf snippet, see man xorg.conf -> INPUTCLASS SECTION
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02:46<txt-file>I just installed debian on a NewWorld Mac. At least the console prompt is working. Graphical interface seems to have problems.
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02:46<smokeysea>jm_: thanks.
02:47<jm_>smokeysea: no problem
02:47<jm_>txt-file: check x logfile for clues
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02:49<txt-file>seeing '(EE) Failed to load module "nv" (module does not exist, 0)' in there
02:50<jm_>do you have xserver-xorg-video-nouveau installed?
02:50<jm_>and it doesn't try to load that first?
02:53<smokeysea> this seems little old
02:53<txt-file>It loads nouveau first
02:54<txt-file>this line ist just the only line with "(EE)"
02:54<smokeysea>There is some info
02:56<txt-file>According to the Xorg.log I have a nvidia nv11
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02:58<smokeysea>jm_: where will I find xorg logs
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02:59<jm_>man nouveau says nv11 is supported
02:59<txt-file>smokeysea, /var/log/Xorg.log
02:59<jm_>smokeysea: in /var/log
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03:09<smokeysea>jm_: has no mention about the touchpad. Couldn't find synaptics properties. No synaptics driver loaded?
03:09<smokeysea>is the error msg get on triggering synaptics
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03:09<smokeysea>may be some driver configuration is missing.
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03:10<jm_>smokeysea: I have no idea what are you trying to do now
03:11<smokeysea>jm_: :(. I want to do someething similar
03:13<jm_>smokeysea: is xserver-xorg-input-synaptics installed?
03:13<smokeysea>I think, touchpad device is being detected as ps2. As per the man page of synaptics "If your device is recog‐ nized as "PS/2 Mouse" or similar, the kernel driver does not support your device and this driver will only provide limited functionality.
03:13<smokeysea>jm_: yes
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03:18<jm_>smokeysea: I suppose you can find that out by looking where /sys/class/input/input*/device/driver points at for it
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03:23<txt-file>These lines look problematic:
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03:25<jm_>txt-file: for whatever reason that url does not work for me, can you put it all on http://paste.debian,net/ ?
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03:29<jm_>txt-file: I find it strange that it only mentions vga
03:30<smokeysea>txt-file: Is this from the xorg.log file that I sent?
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03:31<smokeysea>jm_: seems like driver/kernel configuration is not right.
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03:31<smokeysea>is there any tool to reconfigure xorg
03:32<jm_>no, you'll need to write xorg.conf yourself these days
03:33<jm_>smokeysea: no, the above is for txt-file's problem
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03:33<smokeysea>jm_: ok
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03:38<txt-file>Which driver to use as graphics fallback? vesa seems to be not available anymore.
03:38<jm_>it is, vesa should still work
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03:38<jm_>see xserver-xorg-video-vesa
03:39<jm_>and is a fallback when the primary driver fails
03:39<txt-file>kk … tried fbdev instead.
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03:39<jm_>it'll normally give you low resolution though
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03:41<jm_>you could also try the non-free nvidia driver, but first check if it still supports such old hardware (probably don't bother with the main one and go straight for the legacy one)
03:41<txt-file>I created a xorg.conf and told Xorg to use the fbdev driver. Now I have graphical output. But some colors seem incorrect.
03:42<txt-file>I wonder if nvidia provides a linux-ppc driver
03:42<txt-file>or if they only have linux-i386
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03:42<jm_>ahh no then forget it, it's amd64/i386 only
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03:47<txt-file>Maybe this device will become some kind of software testing server.
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03:49<txt-file>anyway. Thank you for spending your time jm_
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03:52<jm_>txt-file: no worries
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06:28<Guest7909>ho guys
06:28<Guest7909>i have a big problem when i use this command
06:28<Guest7909>xrandr --listproviders
06:28<Guest7909>the result of commando is
06:28<Guest7909>Providers: number : 0
06:28<Guest7909>My video card is: Trinity [Radeon HD 7420G] and i use fglrx driver for xorg
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06:31<infermita>hi guys
06:31<infermita> have a big problem when i use this command
06:31<infermita>xrandr --listproviders
06:31<infermita>the result of commando is
06:31<infermita>Providers: number : 0
06:31<infermita>My video card is: Trinity [Radeon HD 7420G] and i use fglrx driver for xorg
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06:34<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
06:35<infermita>I have a problem with xrandr
06:35<infermita>xrandr --listproviders
06:35<infermita>the result of commando is
06:35<infermita>Providers: number : 0
06:35<infermita>My video card is: Trinity [Radeon HD 7420G] and i use fglrx driver for xorg
06:35<infermita>my pc is debian 8.3 and i tryed install a VM whit debian 8.3 for comparision but the result is same
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06:38<kinlo>please don't paste the same question again
06:38<jm_>infermita: please stop pasting, see what dpkg told you
06:38<jm_>you can paste it there
06:38<infermita>i ha ve a problem with xrandr
06:39<infermita>xrandr --listproviders
06:39<infermita>no result found
06:39<infermita>Providers: number :0
06:39<infermita>i use xorg with fglrx
06:39<kinlo>you can use lines of 500 characters on irc, use it to make one long sentence
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06:41<infermita>xrand --listproviders. Providers:number:0. I use xorg with fglrx. Why?
06:43<infermita>you can help me?
06:44<jm_>there's no need to repeat it so often, be patient and wait, also check BTS or try asking on the mailing list or in #ati on
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07:14<jm_>why do you care what xrandr --listproviders says at all? or in other words, what is the real issue?
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07:17<teatime>I am assuming fglrx doesn't implement xrandr 1.4 / --listproviders, but still otherwise works fine
07:17<jm_>fglrx is known to have issues with at least gnome, see jessie release notes
07:17<teatime>I meant to say but otherwise xrandr works fine
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08:08<flap_>When installing debian to a BTRFS root, will it install to the default subvolume? or will it always pick the root subvolume (id=5)?
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08:36<And1>Hello folks. I’m running raspbian on my new Raspberry Pi 3, though I couldn’t figure out one problem in #raspbian and the raspberry pi forums. I want to achieve, that when an ethernet cable is connected, eth0 should be active and wlan0 not. When the ethernet cable is removed, wlan0 should be used and eth0 not. When an ethernet cable is plugged in again, eth0 should be used and wlan0 not. … I’m using the default configurations of dhcpcd.conf ...
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08:36<And1>... and /etc/network/interfaces. I already tried adding 'allow-hotplug eth0' and replacing 'wpa-conf' with 'wpa-roam', but I had no success doing so. Maybe anyone here can help, thank you very much!
08:36<And1>BTW, raspbian is using dhcpcd now, I didn’t know that from my debian days, though I read debian is using it meanwhile, too?
08:37<jm_>note that raspbian is not supported in #debian
08:37<teatime>And1: just use networkmanager?
08:38<And1>jm_: I think it’s more a /etc/network/interfaces & wpa_supplicant & dhcpcd problem … not raspbian-specific. So I just tried to ask for help here.
08:38<And1>teatime: It’s a headless computer, without GUI and X and graphical tools. Just command line.
08:39<teatime>there's nm-cli to manage networkmanager from the cli
08:39<jm_>nm has cli tools
08:39<jm_>And1: it does not matter, we stick to pure debian here
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08:39<teatime>I would rarely recommend it, but it does seem like you have the perfect use-case.
08:39<teatime>(networkmanager in general, I mean. nm-cli is fine.)
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08:40<And1>Let me take a look at that, thanks. : )
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08:41<And1>Or maybe I could add changes to ifplugd’s configuration.
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08:46<teatime>I have no doubt that you can, I just recommended nm because it has exactly the behavior you want by default. and configuration, including for wireless, is easy/straightfoward.
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08:49<And1>teatime: Superb, thanks!
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09:29<jonos>hi there im having some trouble allowing people to connect to my telnet/ssh server i have openend the ports inside my router and added the accept rules for port 23 22 and port 7777 yet it seems to time out still is there additional configuration on debian which is needed ?
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09:32<jonos>hi there im having some trouble allowing people to connect to my telnet/ssh server i have openend the ports inside my router and added the accept rules for port 23 22 and port 7777 yet it seems to time out still is there additional configuration on debian which is needed ?
09:33<jonos>oops sorry for double paste 0_o
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09:36<grove>jonos: Have you also added rules allowing the return traffic?
09:37<jonos>i just thought about that now grove im adding udp now and trying again
09:37<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: or for pics. Use for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>.
09:38<R4F_Debian>Hi all, I've downloaded through Debian Jessie stable repository the K3B burning tool, installed and had a strange behavior related to this application: the file I had it is 708 MB size, but only 641 MB was written and the device showed: 'writing succesfully completed'. It took a bit more time than usual at 90% phase, and then finished succesfully. Is there any problem to this device ?
09:38<grove>jonos: udp is probably irrelevant for this
09:38<jonos> <is what iptables-save outputs
09:39<jonos>mm seems i have duplicate rules ?
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09:40<teatime>that firewall blocks *nothing*
09:40<teatime>also, are you aware of why you should not use telnet?
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09:40<jonos>im not trying to block , im trying to allow to my lambdamoo server :P
09:40<jonos>which telnet is required for :P
09:41<teatime>ok, as long as you're aware that it's completely insecure
09:41<grove>jonos: The point of pointing out that it blocks nothing is to tell you that it's not the problem
09:41<teatime>(i.e., I hope people won't be logging in with passwords)
09:41<teatime>and yes, correct; even with no rules, that still blocks nothing / allows everything
09:42<jonos>is will be over ssl encryption dont worry
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09:42<jonos>look like i need to delete the rules and check router config again
09:43<teatime>jonos: step one would be confirm that you can connect locally (but to the external IP) with telnet/ssh
09:43<teatime>if so, you've confirmed sshd and telnetd are running, accepting connections on the proper interface, etc.
09:43<grove>The rules doesn't matter, stop thinking about those
09:43<teatime>if that works, then yes return to the router port-forwarding config.
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09:45<jonos>mm the dns related to the server in a browser get blocked at my router login page , so im guessing that saying the router config is wrong
09:46<R4F_Debian>fixed related issue here. Thanks !
09:46<R4F_Debian>Bye all
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11:03<Parrhesiastes>so hard to follow install instruction on debian site :S trying to install debian-live-8.3.0-amd64-standard.iso, is it suitable for usb?
11:03<Parrhesiastes>sudo dd if=/z/new_stuff/debian-live-8.3.0-amd64-standard.iso of=/dev/scd bs=4M → dd: error writing ‘/dev/scd’: No space left on device
11:04<Parrhesiastes>this book is the install guide? :S
11:06<sney>it's probably not '/dev/scd'
11:07<sney>look at dmesg to figure out the actual name for your usb stick
11:08<Parrhesiastes>ure right!
11:08<Parrhesiastes>but i dont think the dd command is in the above install guide :S
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11:09<sney>install guide might reference using cat or cp, there are a few ways to write a file to a device, dd works too
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11:12<sney>yeah as you can see here the ig says to use cp: but it makes no difference
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11:13<Parrhesiastes>hmm computer i wanted to test it on doesnt see my stick
11:14<Parrhesiastes>ive disabled fast boot and secure boot
11:15<sney>some motherboards are weird about booting from usb 3.0 ports so if you have both kinds, try it in a 2.0 port
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11:16<Parrhesiastes>fdisk says its a hidden hpfs/ntfs type
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11:20<Parrhesiastes>oh i forgot to sync too
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11:30<Parrhesiastes>still doesnt find it though... but i have another thats not live, which it sees
11:30<Parrhesiastes>i wanted life to test the mousepad, since the computer is new and it didnt work in windows.
11:30<Parrhesiastes>so just want to confirm it works before install linux...
11:31<Parrhesiastes>selected "graphical install" on this now, but doesnt seem like the pad works, is that a good indicator that it doest work?
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11:33<sney>yeah, weird though, input devices are usually pretty simple
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11:34<Parrhesiastes>hmm... it didnt even find a ethernet card
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11:40<Parrhesiastes>wow, suddenlt the pad works in windows now :s
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11:46<Parrhesiastes>now keyboard doesnt work in the install-usb :S
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12:12<scootergrisen>Can i install libpugixml-dev version 1.5 or newer on Debian Jessie?
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12:12<scootergrisen>With the package manager i get verson 1.4-1
12:13<melt><fglrx dkms>. This driver is incompatible with the GNOME desktop of Debian 8 "Jessie" due to lack of EGL support (ref. §5.11 <jessie release notes>), <----- does this mean that I can use Jessie, XFCE, and fglrx-driver in jessie?
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12:15<sney>melt: please don't crosspost questions. and yes, most likely
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12:15<melt>okay i'll try that. no problem just trying to find where the best resource is
12:16<melt>i fought with it for a month now, enough was enough :)
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12:17<melt>actually this looks good i have no idea how i did not find this before
12:18<sney>vendor driver scripts are unsupported so if that doesn't work we can't help you.
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12:19<sney>besides, fglrx 15.9 and 15.12 are both available for jessie, so
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12:20<scootergrisen>How can i install this: ?
12:20<sney>,checkbackport libpugixml-dev
12:20<judd>Backporting package libpugixml-dev in sid→jessie/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: d-shlibs (>= 0.61~).
12:20<sney>you can't
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12:21<scootergrisen>Ah come one
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12:22<scootergrisen>I want to build FileZilla and it needs version 1.5 of libpugixml
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12:22<melt>sney: so how do i specify i want 15.12 from the repo? enable jessie-backports in sources.list
12:22<melt>Awesome that's way easier :D thank you very much
12:22<sney>then apt-get -t jessie-backports install fglrx-driver
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12:23<scootergrisen>What is the -t for? I don't see it in apt-get --help
12:23<melt>yes i believed i have done this before with squeeze-backports. ah, amazing, you may have just made many people happy espeically me
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12:24<scootergrisen>Lol at the bottom of apt-get it says "Super Cow Powers"
12:24<gluk>are there any squeeze and squeeze-backports repos still online?
12:24<sney>scootergrisen: -t specifies the repo, which is useful/needed when installing from a repo with a lower priority like backports
12:25<scootergrisen>Can i install libpugixml version 1.5 with that?
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12:25<sney>!tell gluk about squeeze-lts
12:25<sney>,v libpugixml
12:25<judd>No package named 'libpugixml' was found in amd64.
12:25<scootergrisen>If i install with apt-get install i get version 1.4 but i need 1.5
12:25<gluk>i know about it but can't find any working
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12:25<shawn>,checkbackport d-shlibs
12:25<judd>Backporting package d-shlibs in sid→jessie/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using jessie.
12:26<scootergrisen>,v libpugixml-dev
12:26<judd>Package: libpugixml-dev on amd64 -- jessie: 1.4-1; sid: 1.7-2; stretch: 1.7-2
12:26<shawn>scootergrisen: you would have to backport that first
12:26<sney>gluk: the dpkg factoid includes a sample sources.list line
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12:26<scootergrisen>Can i use apt-get -t to install libpugixml-dev from backport?
12:26<sney>scootergrisen: shawn is correct, though this means building those backports rather than just installing them from a different repo. ( do NOT add sid to sources.list if you are on stable.)
12:27<gluk>what is the dpkg factiod? not familiar with it....
12:27<sney>!tell scootergrisen about ssb
12:27<sney>gluk: in your irc client, you got a private message from the bot 'dpkg'
12:28<gluk>got it, tnx
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12:29<scootergrisen>Maybe this line could be changed to something better: "First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>"
12:29<scootergrisen>I have no idea where to check. Maybe add a link
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12:29<gluk>got any for squeeze-backports too?
12:30<sney>scootergrisen: anything the bot says in < > can be sent as a reply to the bot, which will expand that information
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12:30<scootergrisen>Can't i just get libpugixml-dev from a single apt-get command without having to check here and there?
12:30<sney>scootergrisen: not on stable
12:30<scootergrisen>oh ok
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12:32<sney>gluk: looks like still lists squeeze-backports, what happens if you try following the instructions at
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12:35<gluk>for lts i get: Hit squeeze-lts Release
12:35<gluk>E: Release file expired, ignoring (invalid since 1h 15min 41s)
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12:36<scootergrisen>How long will it take for GNOME 3.20 to get into stable Debian?
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12:37<sney>debian stable does not get version updates of software. what you're probably asking is when will debian 9 come out, and the answer is when it's ready :P
12:37<sney>(but probably in 2017 or so)
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12:38<scootergrisen>Will my system not check to update to debian 9 when it is avalible? I'm using jessie now
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12:39<scootergrisen>Or will i just keep running jessie for ever?
12:39<gluk>sney: instructions on seems do not work
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12:40<sney>scootergrisen: it won't check automatically, no. you can subscribe to some debian mailing lists to find out when it's going to be relased
12:40<gluk>as per it i should add deb squeeze-backports(-sloppy) main into sources but nothing picked up from this line either by apt-get or aptitude
12:41<melt>lol backports-sloppy
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12:41<sney>(-sloppy) indicates to either add squeeze-backports OR squeeze-backports-sloppy
12:41<sney>if you copy it verbatim with the parentheses it will not do anything
12:41<musca>scootergrisen: the Releasenotes for Debian 9 "Stretch" will provide you with (a link to) upgrade instructions.
12:41<gluk>got it, will test now
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12:43<scootergrisen>So if i want to go from jessie to 9 its not just a matter of running the package manager and updating stuff?
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12:44<teatime>scootergrisen: that's the broad strokes of it, but you should *always* read the release notes.
12:45<teatime>there can be version-specific bugs or specific things you need to handle or look out for.
12:46<gluk>ok that seems to be it but why packages from these repos can't be authenticated? trying to install sqlite3 i get: WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!
12:46<gluk> libsqlite3-0 sqlite3
12:46<gluk>Install these packages without verification [y/N]?
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12:46<scootergrisen>Another question, when i run enlightment window manager there is a cpufreq tool to change the CPU speed. How can i get that in gnome-shell window manager?
12:47<musca>!tell scootergrisen about release notes
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12:48<sney>gluk: someone may know in #debian-backports or on the debian backports mailing list
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12:49<gluk>ok, tnx, will try get some info there
12:49<dooglus>so here's a very vague question for you guys... my girlfriend runs jessie on her laptop. it shut down over night while she was sleeping. this morning when she powered it up, it "asked her something" very early in the boot process. she told it "not to change anything when it asked", and now the touchpad doesn't work, and the system clock says december 2014. what happened?
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12:50<dooglus>she doesn't remember what it asked her on the boot screen, but it was before the regular grub "which kernel to boot" menu
12:50<dooglus>I installed ntp to fix the system clock, and changed "touchpad" from "advanced" to "basic" in the bios settings to fix the touchpad - and now I'm wondering what happened
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12:50<teatime>dooglus: a pre-grub info screen + date resetting sounds like BIOS reset / backup battery dead.
12:50<sney>dooglus: well, that sounds like a bios thing, and considering the clock I suspect maybe the battery is dying
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12:51<dooglus>the laptop is less than a month old, so I hadn't considered battery issues
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12:53<teatime>dooglus: It would be a little internal coin cell or nicad/nimh battery just for the BIOS
12:53<sney>not the laptop battery, the cmos battery. usually a little CR2032 on the motherboard. depending on the laptop it may be hard to access
12:53<teatime>dooglus: without, you lose your BIOS settings and h/w clock setting between boots.
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12:53<blast007>also, some laptops don't have a coin battery and instead use the normal battery, so maybe it drained the main battery far enough it couldn't even maintain BIOS/UEFI settings
12:54<dooglus>I did spill coffee on it a week or so ago - maybe it shorted out the cmos battery? the only observable side-effect of the coffee so far is that the touchpad stopped working for 24h or so
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12:54<dooglus>and by 'stopped working' I mean every touch registered as a 2-finger touch
12:54<teatime>blast007: I was thinking about that, but I imagine they would still have one, 'cause people swap batteries.
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12:54<sney>heh, liquid damage!
12:54<teatime>blast007: but definitely, it could probably use either, so his BIOS battery may have been dead for a long time, and it only became noticable when his main battery ran completely out.
12:54<blast007>teatime: not even system has swappable batteries either :)
12:55<gluk>sney even when I accept warning - i get error on file download from repo: Err squeeze-backports/main libsqlite3-0 amd64 3.7.13-1~bpo60+1
12:55<teatime>blast007: true.
12:55<gluk> 404 Not Found [IP: 80]
12:55<gluk>Err squeeze-backports/main sqlite3 amd64 3.7.13-1~bpo60+1
12:55<gluk> 404 Not Found [IP: 80]
12:55<gluk>Failed to fetch 404 Not Found [IP: 80]
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12:55<dooglus>it's a "cloudbook or something. maybe the cmos is powered by the cloud
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12:55<teatime>How come PC motherboards still take batteries, and don't just use some kind of non-volatile storage?
12:55<teatime>I guess you need power for a RTC, regardless.
12:56<gluk>sry for unintentional flood
12:56<dooglus>gluk: did you apt-get update recently?
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12:57<gluk>did it just before install
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12:58<dooglus>gluk: for me, is and has no 'pool' directory
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12:59<dooglus>maybe pick a real mirror rather than
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13:02<gluk>know any real mirror which has squeeze packages still?
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13:10<grove>Long-term support for squeeze ended in february, so it should have been removed from all official mirrors
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13:12<blast007>gluk: why are you still using squeeze?
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13:12<gluk>cause I have box with it which I can't upgrade at this time
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13:33<Parrhesiastes>lspci says my nework controller is: qualcomm atheros device 0042 ... debian testing installer doesnt recognize it
13:33<Parrhesiastes>anyone know which firmware i need?
13:35<sney>Parrhesiastes: can you run lspci with -nn so we can see the pciid?
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13:36<Parrhesiastes>whats that? the "[0604]" number?
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13:38<blast007>should be two numbers, such as [8086:153a]
13:38<blast007>near the end of the line
13:38<Parrhesiastes>aha [8086:22c8]
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13:40<blast007>,pciid 8086:22c8
13:40<judd>[8086:22c8] is 'Unknown device' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules 'ata_generic', 'snd-hda-intel' in jessie. See also
13:40<blast007>hmm, you're sure that's right?
13:41<blast007>looks like that's for a PCI bridge, not a network adapter
13:42<Parrhesiastes>oh, crap
13:42<Parrhesiastes>dunno i did that wring
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13:42<sney>atheros devices don't start with 8086 it'll be something else as the first 4 digits
13:42<blast007>,pciid 168c:0042
13:42<judd>[168c:0042] is 'Unknown device' from 'Qualcomm Atheros' with no known kernel module in jessie or in sid. See also
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13:46<Parrhesiastes>so no hope?
13:47<Parrhesiastes>buy older laptop?
13:47<Parrhesiastes>i think this is quite new model indeed
13:47<sney>Parrhesiastes: please find the correct pci id, blast007 was just guessing
13:47<Parrhesiastes>cant even find it on asus home pages
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13:47<sney>oh no never mind
13:47<sney>,pciid 168c:0042 --release sid
13:47<judd>[168c:0042] is 'Unknown device' from 'Qualcomm Atheros' with no known kernel module in sid. See also
13:48<sney>there are surely usb ethernet dongles you could use
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13:50<Parrhesiastes>hmm, i guess
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13:52<Parrhesiastes>can unstable have it maybe?
13:52<Parrhesiastes>thats newer than testing right?
13:52<blast007>that's sid
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13:54<Parrhesiastes>i liked this laptop too
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13:56<Guest7950>how to apt-get DOWNLOAD a package and all dependencies to transfer over to another computer that doesn't have internet?
13:57<Guest7950>also different architectures. My laptop is 32bit and my home computer is 64bit. I accidentally installed 32bit on my laptop
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14:09<blarson>Guest7950: try apt-offline
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14:53<joelkraehemann>I don't have UTF-8 support in any terminal ...
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15:28<jack>Having a hard time getting my roxio vhs to dvd capture device to work on linux.
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16:14<Guest7950>blarson, thx
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16:21<Jobbe>I'm trying to configure a new mirror using reprepro, upon the export command i get "Could not find any key matching '<key>'"
16:21<Jobbe>a gpg --list-keys shows the key listed
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16:23<Jobbe>if i add the secret key id, it dosen't work either
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16:23<Jobbe>I've followed this guide
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16:28<Jobbe>dosen't work as root either
16:29<Jobbe>If i comment the SignWith line in ./conf/distributions it exports but unsigned
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16:36<Tury>hello community. im finished this tutorial on a VM. how to configure my ftp?
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16:38<sney>are you using ubuntu or did you just follow those instructions for debian
16:38<Tury>deb newest
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16:38<Maulkin>Also, I would suggest against using FTP.
16:39<Maulkin>Use sftp or scp or something that isn't completely insecure :)
16:39<sney>yes, use sftp instead, if you have ssh then you can use sftp without setting up anything extra
16:39<somiaj>Tury: what do you mean by setup ftp? Once you have the vm running you can install/configure softare on it normally (once you are loged into it)
16:39<danielsh>are you trying to set up a client or a server or what?
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16:39<somiaj>also agree, ssh and eithe sftp/scp/rsync is preferable
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16:40<Tury>its local network for training. its sufficient
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16:40<somiaj>proftpd I think is one of the ftp servers avalible in debian
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16:40<Tury>y thy but i think ftw already runns
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16:40<Jobbe>vsftpd works too
16:40<Tury>if i start the default page from apache2
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16:42<oem>any idea if i can do a byte copy of a block device (xvda) / x86_x64 and then chroot into the backup mounted with losetup on armhf?
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16:42<somiaj>oem: any rason you want to do a byte copy as opposed ot just a filesystem copy?
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16:42<Maulkin>Good question. I /think/ it should work.
16:43<somiaj>oem: oh I see, your issue is you want to chroot into a binary system the host doesn't support. I doubt this will work
16:43<somiaj>oem: you may need to create a vm to emulate the armhf arch
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16:44<oem>somiaj: i will be restoring the backup once i'm done working on it; the setup is the following: there was a debian install running on xen that got a little messed up, but I can't use the RESCUE provided from the datancenter, since when i chroot it says FATAL ERROR kernel too old
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16:45<oem>somiaj: the RESCUE env is CentOS and runs kernel 2.6+
16:45<somiaj>oem: I htink the issue you are going to run into is ensuring you have the correct arch to run the binaries. In that case a VM may work for you and you can just do the direct copy onto a virtual disk image.
16:45<somiaj>if you had another compadable arm device/kernel a chroot would work
16:45<oem>somiaj: yes, this is actually very true, now that i think about it, it will def fail reporting invalid arch
16:46<Tury_>the progs dont work. how to check wich ftp software is running on my machine
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16:47<Tury_>or more basic question where i see the installed software on my system
16:47<somiaj>Tury: systemctl status should list all the services that are running
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16:47<somiaj>Tury: dpkg -l or aptitude search ~i will list all installed packages
16:47<oem>somiaj: the source system is x86_64, the target system is armhf (my cubieboard).. i also have a debian install in another dc that is x86_64, it should work if i sftp the dd copy, losetup, edit, ssh pipe or redirect back to block dev
16:47<somiaj>oem: a little out of my experince as I don't use arm. But in theory sounds okay.
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16:48<oem>somiaj: it will definitely fail on armhf if i try to chroot into a block copy of a previus device that had x86 arch, I remember the error that it tried executing bash (bin/sh) and failing
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16:49<somiaj>oem: up you can't mix binaries across arches with out some sort of virtual machine emulation
16:50<somiaj>well run
16:50<oem>somiaj: yes
16:51<oem>somiaj: thanks for reminding me from the very start - you were on point regarding arch mismatch. anyhow, since i have the rescue env I can also do quite a lot - perhaps you'd be knowledgeabe enough to pinpoint the issue here as well
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16:54<oem>somiaj: networking fails, the system is cut off. runlevel 5. my /etc/rc.local gets executed but fails half way - however, I can actually see the system being rebooted normally (when i down it through the dc's control panel), syslog seems to be sane
16:54<oem>somiaj: one sec
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16:58<oem>somiaj: this is the actual rc.local:
16:58<oem>this is the output of /root/debug.log on /etc/rc.local execution:
16:59<oem>somiaj: as you can see, the rc.local also has "DEBUG_END" line that is nowhere to be found in debug.log, which is odd.. execution gets interrupted somehow
17:00<oem>somiaj: the /etc/network/interfaces hasn't been changed for a year and we had a couple of successful reboots just about a month ago
17:02<oem>somiaj: Mar 15 17:17:47 y systemd[1]: Startup finished in 2.575s (kernel) + 14.621s (userspace) = 17.197s.
17:02<oem>Mar 15 17:22:39 y systemd[1]: Stopping Session c1 of user newrelic.
17:02<oem>this is what i see in syslog
17:03<oem>the system was up for 5 minutes until I initiated RESCUE again, during that time networking never came up (ping didn't work) and somehow the rc.local script was interrupted
17:03<oem>any idea what else I could do?
17:03<oem>the current logging / debug approach is very ghetto
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17:54<chronics>When installing kernel package from backports do I also need to install corresponding headers package?
17:54<Guest7966>why do you need to install from backports?
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17:56<sney>only if you are building dkms drivers or anything else that requires those headers
17:56<chronics>Actually I just want a patch from 3.19 for alsa, but unsure how to get it without installing new kernel.
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17:57<somiaj>chronics: the kernel from backports is the best approach. And you only need the headers if you are compiling additional modules outside the actual kernel.
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17:59<chronics>somiaj: ok thanks. the package will automatically update grub?
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18:04<sney>chronics: yes
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18:04<chronics>sney: thanks
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18:57<Sp0nken>Is it possible to use keybased auth only for shell access, while still allowing passwords for sftp-only users? Looking for a way to sort this out to not have to use ftp anymore
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19:01<somiaj>Sp0nken: man sshd_config to see if it is a config option for sftp access vs shell
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19:03<somiaj>Sp0nken: I don't see that option specifically. But I did see Subsystem option where you can set up sftp-server as an external subsystem (and then maybe provide it its own config which allows passowrd auth seperate of being part of ssh)
19:04<somiaj>though I'm unsure on if this is what is meant by setting external subsystem, but might be worth looking into
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19:04<Sp0nken>somiaj: I believe that i have checked that already. I dont have access to my debian computer at the moment so i can't check but i believe that using key auth overrides everything even when using subsystem internal-sftp
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19:04<somiaj>well interal I would thikn ssh would do the auth, maybe extrenal sftp-server can
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19:09<Gabriel_7>The subsystem does not handle authentication at all.
19:09<Gabriel_7>So AFAIU, it's not possible.
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19:11<NapoleonWils0n>hi all
19:11<Gabriel_7>One solution might be to set a dedicated user which can only spawn the sftp subsystem after changing to the corrects uid.
19:11<somiaj>you may just have to run sftp as a seperate process though I belive ftp-ssl is the port for this
19:11<NapoleonWils0n>going to install debian for my 70 year old dad
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19:11<NapoleonWils0n>just wondering if stable or testing is best
19:11<somiaj>NapoleonWils0n: stable
19:11<Gabriel_7>NapoleonWils0n, stable.
19:12<NapoleonWils0n>running debian stable on an external drive, managed to install grub on the external as well in uefi mode
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19:13<kdefanboy3267>Am I allowed to ask a CentOS question here?
19:13<somiaj>Sp0nken: seems teh answer is configure groups
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19:30<Sp0nken>somiaj: thanks i will have a look at that :)
19:32<Sp0nken>I guess it's possible to use Match Group with AllowGroups
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20:01<jcdubacq>Is there a channel dedicated to fglrx support?
20:03<sney>if it's on debian stable you can ask the question here
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20:04<jcdubacq>Well... I have one of these hybrid cards (I did not choose the hardware, it's all public contracts and all), and fglrx does not support my hardware in stable
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20:05<jcdubacq>It's on the list of supported hardware in the last driver, but it's uninstallable right now
20:05<jcdubacq>So as I am not familiar, are updates to fglrx quick or slow?
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20:05<themill>,v fglrx-driver --release jessie-backports
20:05<judd>Package: fglrx-driver on amd64 -- jessie-backports/non-free: 1:15.12-2~bpo8+1
20:05<jcdubacq>(I have other stuff to care about in the install, so I can wait one or two weeks)
20:06<jcdubacq>should have thought about backports
20:06<themill>I don't know what version you need, but that is there; /msg dpkg jessie-backports
20:06<jcdubacq>It should be enough. Anyway I think it's the last one.
20:07<jcdubacq>I will try that. Thanks.
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21:30<Guest7982>i would like to know oppinions about shell sscript against stronger languages like java, anyone?
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21:32<somiaj>Guest7982: what do you mean and does this relate to debian or would you find better support in #bash or the likes
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21:35<Guest7982>yes, perhaps i am issuing in the wrong channel
21:35-!-CydeWeys [] has joined #debian
21:36<Guest7982>some channels are forbidden, only when invited you can speak
21:37<somiaj>Guest7982: #bash and many other channels maybe on
21:37<sney>a lot of channels just want you to be registered
21:37<somiaj>You are welcome to clarify your question, but I suspect it is more on topic in other channels.
21:38<Guest7982>since it is debian only channel i shall put an issue on the table
21:39<Guest7982>i know it is more like thing for developer but i will put it on screen
21:39<Guest7982>i believe things must be more customizable
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21:40<somiaj>Guest7982: agreed. But there are lots of customizable tools out there.
21:40<Guest7982>some desktops are much dictatorial and force you with default options sometimes you dont want
21:41<Guest7982>applications that are all together glued to gnome for example
21:42<somiaj>Guest7982: if you like to customize things, I would suggest looking into window managers.
21:42<somiaj>debian offers a good number of window managers all with different abilitis and amount of customization.
21:42<Guest7982>i could select ARK but i like the aptitude manager
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21:43<Guest7982>i recently got amazed with the xfce simplicity
21:44<Guest7982>and therefore room to customize
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21:47<Guest7982>the coolest thing is the low memory profile of xfce
21:47<Guest7982>gnome eats a lot o memory
21:47<dpkg>A window manager is a special application class which decorates and manages windows for the X server. To list available window managers in your system, run «apt-cache showpkg x-window-manager». Not to be confused with a desktop environment such as <GNOME> or <KDE>. To set your system-wide default window manager, use «update-alternatives --config x-window-manager». For a guide to available window managers, see
21:48<somiaj>Guest7982: that command for searching " apt-cache showpkg x-window-manager" if you are looking for alternatives
21:51<Guest7982>well, i believe my complain was about some desktop managers indeed
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21:52<Guest7982>because all is opensource is more easy change the application and make it more flexible
21:52-!-pamaury_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:53<Guest7982>but for good desktops, i like gnome, there still little to do to remove some apps
21:54<CEP-2015-Jessie>panic kernel
21:54<Guest7982>if you try to remove 1 app it will apt will remove ALL gnome
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21:55<somiaj>Guest7982: it only removes the meta package. The issue is many of the other packages are held in from the metapackage. If you install the package gnome-core (mark it as manual install) the core of gnome will stay around while you can remove some of the optional componenets
21:55<Guest7982>just dont understand why
21:55<somiaj>CEP-2015-Jessie: is this on a jessie kernel using jessie?
21:56<somiaj>Guest7982: because most of the packages are marked as 'auto' install so apt thinks you want to remove them when y ou remove the full desktop meta package. There are smaller meta packages that are useful to this siuation
21:56<somiaj>CEP-2015-Jessie: can you reproduce it?
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21:58-!-mode/#debian [+l 731] by debhelper
21:58<Guest7982>mia i shall try next time use dpkg to remove things useless in gnome, those that i believe is linked to the core of the gnome
21:59<CEP-2015-Jessie>somiaj, yes , jessie
21:59<CEP-2015-Jessie>no install
21:59<somiaj>CEP-2015-Jessie: what install image are you using and how did you create the usb (or boot medium) you are using
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22:02<CEP-2015-Jessie>jessie debian in notebook asus. Partitioned: efi, root, swap, boot, home
22:03<CEP-2015-Jessie>kernel 4.3
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22:16<seneka>hi again.
22:16<seneka>i cant make installation from cd-1
22:18<somiaj>seneka: how did you put the image onto a usb/cdrom?
22:18<somiaj>seneka: what is failing/not working?
22:20<seneka>be that way, as sayd in that chat. but it not work. GRUB not install'd.
22:20<seneka>after files of system going on ssd, i have blackscreen. again.
22:21<seneka>and i use cp /home/stacy/%diskname%.iso /dev/sdb
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22:23<seneka>or not like that, but using "cp". dont remember because it hard if using terminal not many times.
22:25<seneka>plz make me remember how to use cat to see usb-flash and other devices
22:26<seneka>i want to put stretch on my usb-stick
22:26<seneka>i give it from that link:
22:26-!-namyzarc [~namyzarc@2601:989:4202:f041:3552:33f1:613a:441d] has quit [Read error: Network is unreachable]
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22:27<seneka>somiaj, sorry for newb question. ._. how to see usb-devices and other volumes list?
22:28<somiaj>seneka: so the installer works up to the point that it installs grub and then grub fails to isntall correctly?
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22:31<Guest7988>hi everyone
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22:33<Guest7988>one question: Stallman refused endorse debian because It accept non opensource packages, till here ok?
22:33<seneka>somiaj, yes. after that № of list, when installs files, is installing GRUB. but it not work.
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22:33<seneka>Guest7988, are you a troll?
22:35<Guest7988>if you allow something that is not opensource, where is the security?
22:35<somiaj>Guest7988: debian is very clear about what satsifies the DSFG and what doesn't. But the fsf won't endorce debian if debian provides additional contrib and non-free software for its users (basically we make non-free easy to get, that some may not realize they are isntalling non-free software)
22:35-!-Atomizer [] has quit []
22:35<somiaj>everything in debian main follows the DSFG.
22:36-!-sidmo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:36<somiaj>debian additionally provides its users access to non-free software and lets the users choose to use it not.
22:36<seneka>somiaj, i want to try place debian-stretch-DI-alpha5-amd64-netinst.iso on my USB. how to use "cp" i know (for that operation only, dont readed MAN yet). but how to see disks list??)
22:37-!-aLLamoox [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:38<somiaj>seneka: you would put the iso on your usb the same as the cd1 iso. But I doubt the stretch installer will fix your sitations. The testing isntaller can actually be broken
22:38*seneka afk for 5-10 min for making овсяная каша (food), today i dont eat yet (8 hours as). thx for before, for answer about cat and ..?
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22:39<seneka>how testing installer can be broken?
22:39<jmcnaught>seneka: use the jessie installer. the stretch/testing installer is only available for testing the installer itself. if you want to install stretch, install jessie first then upgrade (or don't)
22:40<seneka>i cant install jessie because installation not completed.
22:40<seneka>i cant format ssd for many times.
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22:41<jmcnaught>seneka: it's very unlikely that the stretch installer will work better. did you read the install manual, you were provided a link last $localtime
22:42<seneka>also, i can join ssd to hdd-case and use ssd with usb. if it can help..?
22:42<seneka>yes, i read.
22:42<seneka>i dong all right.
22:43<Guest7988>make the nonfree packages an option is good strategy to stretch up the hardware support, but bad policy to security
22:43<seneka>*or i think so
22:43<jmcnaught>seneka: so what happens with the jessie installer is that you go through the install, it installs everything, it reboots and you get no GRUB prompt?
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22:45<Guest7988>when someone says antivirus here everyone mock, but where is the fun in the nonfree closed source packages
22:47<Guest7988>it is not a flame war just principles
22:47<seneka>installer write systemfiles (main load, or something, dont know how to say) and (next No in list, if use advanced install) i think GRUB need to start. but i see off and when on - blackscreen with blinking "_" and no messages, no ctrl+c reactions, no ctrl+alt+f2 reactions. if use ctrl+alt+del -- black-darkgreen screen without "_".
22:47<seneka>GRUB next in list after filecopying.
22:48<seneka>so i think, GRUB должен ("need to"?) start.
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22:48<jmcnaught>seneka: so you get a frozen system while the installer is trying to install GRUB? Or do you complete the installer, it says "time to reboot!", and during the boot you get the frozen screen?
22:49<somiaj>do you know if you are using legacy mbr or efi boot. This can be an issue if your paritition talbe/options don't match
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22:50<jmcnaught>seneka: you could also check in your BIOS/UEFI to see if it has an option to prevent OS installation, or writing MBR or something like that
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22:53<Guest7988>really i down think debian team is all the way wrong
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22:53-!-CEP-2015-Jessie [~cep2015@] has quit [Quit: Me jui]
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22:53<somiaj>Guest7988: that is the nice thing about freedom and choice, you can choose to use what you want or feel safe with.
22:54<Guest7988>as cigarretes anti propaganda wiped out most of the evil
22:54<seneka>not think that OS (if that system, not PC) is dropped down, think it goes off and on, and then goes "blackscreen". frozen system after copying files, before run GRUM. when progressbar goes on right place, files are copyed and i not see "starting GRUB" or something like that text. i see just dropoff.
22:54-!-Guest7981 [~Corey84@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:54<seneka>i have old laptop, that uses BIOS.
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22:54<somiaj>are you using mbr partition or gpt?
22:55<seneka>no, i dont have "prevent changing of MBR" or "virus protection".
22:55<seneka>i dont know
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22:56<seneka>but files writes on ssd when i start install.
22:56<seneka>i see blinking LED on laptop. ._.
22:56<jmcnaught>seneka: so the installer itself is what freezes?
22:56-!-contardo [~contardo@] has quit []
22:57<seneka>no. after installer write all system files, before start GRUB writing, i see blackscreen.
22:57<seneka>not freezed installer/
22:57<seneka>*sorry, afk 10 min. i really need to eat. i have 4:57 AM
22:58<Guest7988>uefi came to annoy our lives
22:58<Guest7988>stick windows to the pc
22:58<seneka>i dont have uefi
22:59<seneka>винда для даунов и с троянами на уровне ядра. спасибо, нет.
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23:01<jmcnaught>seneka: sorry you're still confusing me. the freeze happens during the first reboot after the installer is finished? yes/no
23:01<shawn>Guest7988 what is pi to ten places, prove you're not a bot
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23:02<Guest7988>shawn: politely, you are crazy
23:03<svetlana>I don't know what you are talking about though
23:03<svetlana>in some place
23:04<svetlana>Debian is a volunteer distro without a corporate boss. It is the first distro to separate free and non-free. In my view it is a big step forward already
23:04<seneka>jmcnaught, yes and no. no after finished, i dont see "now rebooting" or something. i see end of writing files to disk and next moment off and on and freeze. not see correct rebooting after install is going finish.
23:05<jmcnaught>seneka: it sounds like you are describing your computer freezing during the GRUB part of the installer. What is the last screen you see before it freezes, do you have a screenshot?
23:05*seneka afk 10 mins. eating.
23:05<oem>wtf, svetlana
23:05<oem>sounds very russki
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23:06<seneka>Света, вы разговариваете по русски?
23:06<oem>looks like not
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23:07<Guest7988>svetlana: as i sad, debian team is not all the way wrong
23:07-!-Tempesta_ is now known as Tempesta
23:10<Guest7988>without nonfree my wireless harware would be trash
23:10-!-scott__ [] has joined #debian
23:10<Guest7988>sad but true
23:12<somiaj>You can get a wifi card that dosen't use additional nonfree firmware, but afiak they still have nonfree firmware flashed on the card.
23:13<oem>"mounting ext3 file system using the ext4 subsystem" - how is this possible?
23:13<somiaj>oem: backwards compadability
23:13<oem>somiaj: oic
23:13<oem>somiaj: thanks
23:14<Guest7988>nonfree is a meanece to freedom, and must have anti propaganda against it
23:14<somiaj>i.e. you don't need to have both ext4 and ext3 modules loaded/enabled in yoru kernel
23:14<oem>somiaj: btw, it worked - successfully chrooted to that setup
23:14<seneka>jmcnaught, ssd is working. i see it if using usb-box (or case, dont know how to say/named it). that what i see "after install" if use sata-to-usb box. now going eat. wery need.
23:14<somiaj>Guest7988: keep it on debian support please.
23:14-!-scott__ [] has quit []
23:15<oem>somiaj: did you by chance take a look at the logs I posted?
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23:16<somiaj>oem: nope
23:16-!-acald3ron [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:17<oem>somiaj: can you do that please if you get any time? I can repaste
23:17<Guest7988>somiaj: the issue is about debian, the name of the channel. if you just dont want to chat ok, just ask
23:18<jmcnaught>Guest7988: this is a tech support channel, there's a #debian-offtopic for chatting
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23:19<Guest7988>oh, sorry because this is off-topic, i shall shut or change the line of thought
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23:20<Guest7988>just to point out, that was a chat not a war
23:22<Guest7988>managers are concerned to peacefull and calm lines
23:22<jmcnaught>Guest7988: it's cool. the reason for keeping chat and support separate is to make things easier to follow for people who need support (and the helpers). If it gets too busy with chat, support requests get lost, people don't get helped.
23:22<Guest7988>but ircs are commmunication channels
23:22<Guest7988>censorships are expected
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23:24<Guest7988>jmcnaught: for those who need really help doi in private, i do for all
23:24<Guest7988>for all to all know
23:26<Guest7988>ok, i didnt presented a solution yet, do i
23:26<Guest7988>is there a solution to nonfree?
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23:27<Juest>live with a broken driver (?)
23:27<jmcnaught>Guest7988: here we help people in the channel, not in private. Please keep the off-topic chat to a minimum :)
23:27<Guest7988>rebuild the wheel is not the answer, i know
23:27-!-pjotter1 [~pjotter@2001:981:9c1d:1:8169:b07e:f09c:c5c0] has left #debian []
23:27<somiaj>Guest7988: this is not the place to discuss a solution to non-free. This is also a tired and old debate that goes back years and years and debian does not appear to be in any position to drop the contrib and non-free repo.
23:28<somiaj>you can use debian without using any software from contrib and non-free if so desire, just don't include those repos in your sources.list and you won't be able to install non-free software though apt.
23:29<Guest7988>i choosed debian because it is a bullet proof OS
23:30<somiaj>and you can also run it with only software that fits into the FSF guidelines if that is your choice. You can read up more on exactly what debian means by these guide lines at
23:30<Guest7988>i will shut my mouth, for the sake of the chanel managers
23:31<somiaj>arg DSFG (not FSF) they are similar but I think slightly differnt guidelines
23:31<Juest>Guest7988: Please pick a distro from here:
23:31<Guest7988>but know that we do not have to accept everything in our lives because IT IS this way
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23:34<Juest>Guest7988: And please take a look here too:
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23:42<Guest7988>came to me what is allowed in this channel..
23:43<Juest>then /part if you dislike it
23:43<Guest7988>i some titles that are not
23:46<somiaj>Guest7988: talking about debian policy is fine here, but you tend to drift a bit and I was just trying to keep the conversation more focused on the state of debian.
23:46<Guest7988>by the way everyone knows that tha same user do many channels, so the statement: this issue is not here is almost false in reality
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23:50<oem>networking never gets fully initialized upon boot on a remote host. only 'lo' comes up. interfaces file the same as before. RESCUE mode available with CentOS. how can i possibly debug this?
23:51<somiaj>oem: can you share your interfaces file?
23:52-!-raf [~quassel@2001:6f8:202:8459:226:18ff:fe67:be43] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
23:52<somiaj>oem: do you have an 'auto interface' line in the file for the interface you want brought up?
23:52-!-raf [~quassel@2001:6f8:202:8459:226:18ff:fe67:be43] has joined #debian
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23:55<somiaj>and neither eth0 or eth1 are being brougt up at boot?
23:55<Guest7988>for the noobs disable all javascript of browser
23:55<somiaj>is this new hardware, are you sure eth0 and eth1 are the names of the interfaces, didn't you say this is new hardware?
23:55<somiaj>oem: ^^
23:55<Guest7988>pastebin > gotcha
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23:56<oem>somiaj: the rc.local I have:
23:56-!-d1g1t4l [] has joined #debian
23:56<oem>somiaj: output of rc.local:
23:57<oem>somiaj: I keep pinging the server, trying to ssh to it, but it never responds (ufw is disabled on boot, no entries for iptables)
23:57<oem>somiaj: Mar 15 17:17:47 y systemd[1]: Startup finished in 2.575s (kernel) + 14.621s (userspace) = 17.197s.
23:57<oem>Mar 15 17:22:39 y systemd[1]: Stopping Session c1 of user newrelic.
23:57<somiaj>oem: Are you sure the devices are identified as eth0 and eth1 directly. Is this the same machien you put on new hardware?
23:57<oem>somiaj: syslog reads this. meaning that it finished bootting at 17 minutes and then was just there until 22 (5 min window) when I initiated RESCUE mode again
23:58<oem>somiaj: this is a virtual xen setup. remote one. I presume the devices are identified the same way yes
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23:59<somiaj>oem: check /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules it could be new mac address means the interfaces are not beign brought up as eth0 and eth1
23:59<somiaj>oem: but this is only a guess I'm having trouble following all the info you are giving. (:
---Logclosed Wed Mar 16 00:00:14 2016