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#debian IRC Logs for 2016-03-18

---Logopened Fri Mar 18 00:00:32 2016
---Daychanged Fri Mar 18 2016
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00:16<hanasaki>any reason that iceweasle in debian have all spell =checking messed up? it says all words are mispelled
00:16<hanasaki>running gnome
00:20<jmcnaught>hanasaki: it's probably spell checking in the wrong language. if you right click on a textarea do you see anywhere to change languages
00:20<lordarkmemo>right now im using debian 8. When debian 9 is realese, it upgrade automatically or is better to do a fresh install?
00:21<jmcnaught>lordarkmemo: you don't need to do a fresh install. the upgrade won't happen automatically, but it's very easy and the instructions will be in the release notes
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00:21<hanasaki>jmcnaught: its set for english us
00:21<hanasaki>looks right
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00:22<hanasaki>jmcnaught: so I make a new email in gmail... and type "this is a test" all words are underlined as misspelled
00:22<jmcnaught>hanasaki: do you have hunspell-en-us installed?
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00:24<hanasaki>hmm what is that jmcnaught
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00:25<hanasaki>jmcnaught: yes it is installed....
00:26<jmcnaught>hanasaki: is your locale set properly? what does "echo $LANG" say?
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00:29<jmcnaught>hanasaki: as it should be. you could also check the region & language settings in gnome to make sure they're correct. Did you do anything special to install iceweasel (from for example, or with --no-install-recommends)?
00:30<hanasaki>jmcnaught: install was as part of tasksel and gnome. how do I check the region and lang?
00:31<hanasaki>region/lang are English and United states
00:31<hanasaki>fyi: spell checking in icedove is fine
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00:32<jmcnaught>hanasaki: if you right click a textarea in iceweasel, is there a "languages" sub-menu?
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00:35<hanasaki>jmcnaught: you are onto something... went to ... it lists hebrew only.... I did install it... also installed english which is listed first under languages in iceweasle prefs
00:36<jmcnaught>hanasaki: i have multiple languages available in iceweasel and for spell checking i always switch using that context menu
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00:37<hanasaki>jmcnaught: funny that english does not show up in that menu.. it is installed in the languages list in the iceweasle prefs
00:38<jmcnaught>hanasaki: that is funny. i didn't do anything special to get english.
00:38<jmcnaught>hanasaki: iceweasel depends on libhunspell-1.3-0 so i assume that if you have the hunspell package for a language, iceweasel can spell check it
00:40<hanasaki>what is hunspell
00:40<hanasaki>i A libhunspell-1.3-0 <= what is the "A"
00:41<jmcnaught>hanasaki: it's a spell checker used by lots of other programs. any time you want to know what a package is, "apt-cache show <package>" will tell you
00:41<jmcnaught>hanasaki: the 'A' means automatic, so it was installed by a dependency of another package
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00:48<hanasaki>jmcnaught: thanks. I use aptitude show a lot . its slightly different output from the looks
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00:49<hanasaki>hmm so any more ideas?
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00:52<jmcnaught>hanasaki: make a new user account, see if it's the same problem. or move your ~/.mozilla somwhere safe, see if problem still exists. That could help narrow the problem down to your iceweasel profile
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00:54<hanasaki>so I purged and installed hunspell-en-us and added hunspell. now it works ok
00:55<hanasaki>what should I check to see why all sound is playing through dunmmy and there is no audio?
00:55<jmcnaught>hanasaki: pavucontrol
00:56<hanasaki>only shows dummy
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00:56<hanasaki>Vendor ID: GenuineIntel
00:56<hanasaki>CPU family: 6
00:56<hanasaki>Model: 76
00:56<hanasaki>Model name: Intel(R) Atom(TM) x5-Z8500 CPU @ 1.44GHz
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00:56<jmcnaught>hanasaki: "lspci -nn | grep -i audio"
00:57<hanasaki>jmcnaught: no output from that
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00:58<jmcnaught>hanasaki: well that's strange. do you know what type of sound card you have?
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00:59<hanasaki>jmcnaught: no
00:59<hanasaki>00:0b.0 Signal processing controller: Intel Corporation Device 22dc (rev 20)
01:00<hanasaki>dmesg => [ 5.038943] ALSA device list:[ 5.038959] No soundcards found.
01:01<jmcnaught>hanasaki: did you get that Signal processing line from lspci? can you add "-nn" to it?
01:01<jmcnaught>that'll give the PCI ID, we can ask the bot about it
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01:01<hanasaki>00:0b.0 Signal processing controller [1180]: Intel Corporation Device [8086:22dc] (rev 20)
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01:01<jmcnaught>judd: pciid 8086:22dc
01:01<judd>[8086:22dc] is 'Unknown device' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules 'ata_generic', 'snd-hda-intel' in jessie. See also
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01:02<hanasaki>jmcnaught: this is the comptuer
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01:02<hanasaki>supposed to have sound over the hdmi
01:02<jmcnaught>hanasaki: you could look in the dmesg output for clues. trying a newer kernel from jessie-backports might help too
01:03<hanasaki>jmcnaught: tried the newest kernel form backports. and built my own 4.5 without any sound still
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01:03<hanasaki>4.5.0 #4 SMP Wed Mar 16 09:36:03 CDT 2016 x86_64 GNU/Linux
01:05<jmcnaught>hanasaki: maybe grep the dmesg output for firmware errors?
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01:08<hanasaki>No soundcards found.
01:09<hanasaki>lots of errors lol... which would are sound card related?
01:09<hanasaki>jmcnaught: can I send to you via patebin?
01:09<jmcnaught>hanasaki: please :)
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01:13<hanasaki>issues with website and timeout
01:16<jmcnaught>hanasaki: so far i see a lot of iwlwifi related firmware errors
01:16<hanasaki>jmcnaught: yes... the wifi is next for me:) want sound first
01:16<lordarkmemo>jmcnaught: iceseweasel crash every time and restart the current session. If possible to find the reason using logs?
01:17<hanasaki>this looks similar
01:17<jmcnaught>lordarkmemo: can you start iceweasel from a terminal? it will show errors on the terminal window
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01:18<lordarkmemo>jmcnaught: the fact is every time it crash the session is close. How i manage to see the terminal errors?
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01:19<jmcnaught>lordarkmemo: start a terminal application, on the command line it shows type "iceweasel". it will run iceweasel, when it crashes you should see the errors there
01:20<jmcnaught>hanasaki: did you also install newer firmwares from backports? it seems there is a firmware-iwlwifi in bpo. i didn't see any firmware errors specific to audio devices though
01:20<jmcnaught>hanasaki: there's also newer firmware-linux-nonfree in bpo
01:20<hanasaki>jmcnaught: which ones?how?
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01:21<hanasaki>whatis bpo
01:22<jmcnaught>hanasaki: sorry, it's short for backports
01:22<dpkg> (formerly is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <jessie backports>) and oldstable (<wheezy backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read See also <bdo kernel> <bdo mirrors> <bdo contents> <bdo list> <bdo bugs> <bdo xorg> <bdo NEW>.
01:23<hanasaki>jmcnaught: do I need to reboot to get that activated? just did the update
01:23<jmcnaught>hanasaki: "apt-get -t jessie-backports install firmware-iwlwifi firmware-linux-nonfree" <-- this of course requires non-free
01:24<jmcnaught>hanasaki: using rmmod and modprobe is enough i think
01:24<hanasaki>which mods please?
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01:25<twb>If dmesg says this, am I definitely booted via EFI and not BIOS? [ 0.000000] efi: EFI v2.50 by EDK II
01:25<twb>[ 0.000000] efi: SMBIOS=0xfef7000 ACPI=0xff20000 ACPI 2.0=0xff20014[ 0.000000] efi: EFI v2.50 by EDK II
01:25<jmcnaught>hanasaki: i don't know for sound, but i don't know if that's the issue here. for wifi, it'll probably "rmmod iwldvm && rmmod iwlwifi && modprobe iwlwifi"
01:26<twb>jmcnaught: you can't do that for a sound driver if it's in use
01:26<twb>in my experience, that means "if the user has logged in, you have to restart to remove the sound driver"
01:27<jmcnaught>twb: i don't even know what their sound driver is at this point, if it's even in the kernel at all. but i don't think they're using the wifi right now
01:29<hanasaki>jmcnaught: how can I test from bash? I am ssh'ed
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01:29<hanasaki>ifconfig shows wlan1 - no IP
01:29<twb>I have stuff in /sys/firmware/efi/ which I guess means I booted via EFI
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01:30<jmcnaught>hanasaki: did you get any errors from reloading the modules?
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01:30<hanasaki>[133344.395810] iwlwifi 0000:01:00.0: Direct firmware load for iwlwifi-7265D-20.ucode failed with error -2
01:30<hanasaki>[133344.395831] iwlwifi 0000:01:00.0: Falling back to user helper
01:31<hanasaki>failed on -20, 19 18 17 ... then
01:31<hanasaki>[133344.413491] iwlwifi 0000:01:00.0: loaded firmware version 16.242414.0 op_mode iwlmvm
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01:35<hanasaki>jmcnaught: ok wifi from gnome works. it's the bluetooth and audio over hdmi that I need help with please
01:36<hanasaki>bluetooth sees my phone however will hnot stay connected
01:36<jmcnaught>hanasaki: it's quite possible your audio and bluetooth are not supported in linux
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01:38<jmcnaught>hanasaki: you'll probably need to do more research, see if you can find a useful error
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01:38<hanasaki>bluetooth in gnome sees my phone but... "bluetoothd[2783]: a2dp-source profile connect failed for 5C:E8:EB:FE:53:E7: Protocol not available
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01:44<twb>hanasaki: are you using pulseaudio?
01:45<twb>hanasaki: please pastebin the contents of /proc/asound/cards
01:46<hanasaki>twb yes pulse
01:46<hanasaki>ls -lah /proc/asound/cards
01:46<hanasaki>-r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Mar 18 01:46 /proc/asound/cards
01:47<twb>no, the contents of the file. In a pasteBIN, like or
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01:48<hanasaki>--- no soundcards ---
01:49<twb>OK. "lspci -nn | grep udio" -- what does it say?
01:49<twb>You might need to run "sudo update-pciids" first
01:50<hanasaki>twb: no output returned
01:50<twb>OK, please pastebin the full output of "lspci -nn" and "lsusb"
01:52<twb>hanasaki: is this jessie?
01:53<twb>Please run "sudo update-pciids" and then pastebin "lspci -nn" again
01:53<hanasaki>yes. jessie
01:54<twb>OK it sounds like this computer is too new
01:54<twb>You are running 3.16 kernel? "uname -r" will say
01:55<hanasaki>needed bpo 4.3 to get the video to work
01:55<hanasaki>on 4.5 custombuild right now. same results
01:55<twb>OK, sorry, but I am stuck
01:56<hanasaki>me too
01:56<twb>It is strange that lspci does not mention any sound cards at all
01:56<hanasaki>they say windows btooth and sound does work
01:56<twb>even with out driver support, it should still appear
01:57<twb>Oh sexy - stretch install pulls in apt-listchanges by default now
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02:00<jmcnaught>twb: i think jessie does too. it's priority is standard
02:00<hanasaki>twb: what's wrong with that apt-listchagnes?
02:00<jm_>according to it is hcitool scan to get BT devices
02:00<twb>jmcnaught: ah, I normally do not install priority: standard, but I have to now because systemd broke the power button
02:00<twb>jm_: oh, I didn't realize hanasaki's HDMI/audio was connected *via* bluetooth
02:01<hanasaki>twb: its not.. .I am working on both, induvidually
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02:02<jm_>I assume it was since neither lspci or lsusb show it, but it may be one of those with empty description in lsusb
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02:03<jm_>naah those are both hubs
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02:03<twb>hanasaki: sudo update-usbids as well
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02:03<jm_>for me lsusb -v mentions bInterfaceClass 1 Audio for usb headset
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02:06<hanasaki>twb: that program is not avaiallble
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02:06<twb> That is odd, because it is part of the same package as lsusb
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02:07<jm_>you need to run it as root
02:07<twb>I told him to use sudo
02:07<hanasaki>what package is it in
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02:09<hanasaki> Better
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02:09<jm_>not much better since it just confirms what I found by looking at usb ids manually
02:10<hanasaki>supposed to have usb3.0... none listed....?
02:10<jm_>anyway, is it raining in melbourne?
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02:11<twb>the day ends in y so it is raining
02:11<jm_>thanks :)
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02:12<twb>(The latter URL requires image support.)
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02:16<hanasaki> AX88179 Gigabit Ethernet this chip anygood?
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02:17<twb>hanasaki: I mostly use Intel e1000 and Realtel rtl81xx for ethernet.
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02:17<twb>I do not recognize that chipset, I guess it is broadcom?
02:17<jm_>that's usb 3.0 gigabit ethernet adapter apparently, why do you have two?
02:17<hanasaki>twb: needed usb dual ehternet for a firewall :)
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02:18<jm_>ahh for firewall, makes sense
02:19<twb>my firewalls either use e1000/rtl (rackmount), or they have a 5-port gige programmable switch, and I've no idea what they run
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02:21<hanasaki>twb: and jm true... but for a quicky home box.. its good enough
02:21<twb>Do you even need a separate firewall appliance?
02:23<hanasaki>twb: what do you like in e1000 vs rtl81xx
02:23<hanasaki>for fun :)
02:23<twb>They're just NICs. You use them, and that's the end.
02:24<twb>Unless you're faffing about ricing the segment offloading or whatever, who cares?
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02:24<twb>And they're gigabit speed and for a firewall the uplink is going to be much less than that, so even if they're slow, it doesn't matter
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04:32<gas>Hi. I have quassel (IRC client) and VLC (media player). If I try to remove VLC, it removes quassel too. If I try to install quassel after removing, it install VLC too. Why does quassel require vlc and why removing vlc removes quassel?
04:33<smile>Hello all! can someone help me with configure ALSA and Yamaha soundcard please?
04:34<jm_>does kernel not support that sound card?
04:35<smile>yes, kernel support it
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04:37<smile>i need set up autoswitch in ALSA and set as default.
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04:38<twb>what is autoswitch?
04:38<jm_>what do you mean with autoswitch?
04:38<twb>Do you mean "jack sensing", where the speakers turn off if you plug in the 3.5mm TRS headphones?
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04:38<smile>anybody can speak russian?)
04:39<FLD>'man crypttab' is completely wrong in debian jessie
04:39<FLD>it lists options that are not supported by default in systemd
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04:40<dpkg>Это английскоговорящий канал, пожалуйста, говорите по-английски или посетите #debian-russian ( (Russian speakers please go to #debian-russian)
04:40<twb>FLD: are you sure? Note that debian 8 does not use systemd in the ramdisk by default.
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04:40<FLD>oh wait, it doesn't?
04:41<FLD>i thought systemd was the default for jessie
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04:41<twb>systemd is the default *after* switch_root, but not before.
04:42<twb>debian's ramdisk is still the same kludgy mess it was in debian 7
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04:43<FLD>i've also noticed that systemd doesn't often care about the stuff in /etc/default/
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04:45<jm_>indeed it doesn't, that's covered in one of the man pages (how to specify it in unit files)
04:46<twb>systemd upstream has declared that /etc/default and /etc/sysconfig are wrong and should die. daemon.7 or systemd.exec.5 (both from systemd) explain how to provide partial backcompat.
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04:49<FLD>you can disable stuff in 7e
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04:51<twb>FLD: if you have a specific example I can discuss it
04:51<aidalgol>I just noticed that my fstab has no pass field value for / and /boot/efi (the EFI partition) has a pass number of 1. That doesn't seem right going by the fstab manpage.
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04:53<twb>aidalgol: hah, that's the Debian 8 default
04:53<twb>I'm looking at a fresh install I just did, it has that
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04:55<twb>aidalgol: hey waitaminute, this is #debian. You tricked me!
04:55<twb>aidalgol: good thing I wasn't automatically rude to you.
04:56<jm_>for me / has 1 and /home has 2
04:57<twb>I thought I chose guided install, but it's BTRFS so I probably overrode it
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05:06<anacleto>buon giorno
05:06<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
05:06<anacleto>dunque, riesco a creare le periferiche virtuali ma non posso fare il bridge tra scheda wifi e wirtuale
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05:15<sveta>is there a cli client to the debian bug tracker?
05:15<sveta>w/o using web browser or email
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05:16<twb>sveta: yes
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05:16<twb>"bts" can edit, and "bts select" can do some SQL queries
05:17<twb>Obviously that uses SMTP to the mail server, or SOAP to the web server.
05:17<twb>I dunno whether you consider that to be "using" browser/mail
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05:18<sveta>just wondering, why does our web tracker only have an email interface and no api? because effort or there is some other reason? many desktop environments do not have a section for configuring mail (neither as a cerver or nullmailer)
05:18<sveta>i'll look at it
05:18<twb>The email interface IS an API
05:18<sveta>i mean like post/rest api over http
05:19<twb>Probably because nobody cares enough.
05:19<twb>reportbug, at least, can send mail direct to debian, without even a nullmailer
05:19<sveta>sorry, i understand email stuff has an api too
05:19<twb>I assume bts can as well, if you really want it to
05:19<peter1138>urgh, definitely debian 8 seems to have issues booting off lvm with systemd :(
05:19<twb>I acknowledge that for GUI users who are used to doing everything in a browser, it's sucky and weird and old-school
05:19<peter1138>a fresh install in a vm playing up now
05:20<twb>peter1138: is /boot inside LVM?
05:20<twb>I can't help with that, sorry. I always keep it outside LVM to avoid these issues
05:20<twb>It is more likely to be grub than systemd that is the problem, apart from the udev part, systemd does nothing until the rootfs is mounted
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05:21<peter1138>it's done a fsck of the /root
05:21<peter1138>no, it's got to systemd
05:21<twb>peter1138: oh, sorry. I assumed "has issues" meant that it couldn't find the root fs to mount it
05:21<peter1138>systemd-journald.service watchdog timeout
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05:22<twb>sveta: FWIW I find msmtp to be very straightforward to use as my /usr/sbin/sendmail -- apt-get install msmtp-mta, example dotfile
05:22<twb>peter1138: hrm, are you sure this is LVM-related?
05:23<twb>peter1138: also, is plymouth installed?
05:23<sveta>twb: yes, thanks
05:23<ach>i got some question how can i cut this dmesg like messages out of boot lilo bootmanager lastest squeeze or offavailable
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05:23<twb>ach: do you mean "I want boot to be quieter" ?
05:24<twb>ach: you need to pass "quiet" or "loglevel=1" to the kernel.
05:24<twb>ach: I'm not sure exactly where that is done in lilo
05:25-!-chele [~chele@2a02:8109:8380:1de0:bd99:2fa6:bd8b:47cf] has joined #debian
05:25<ach>thanks seem it's then easy set an option
05:25<twb>ach: also please note that squeeze is not supported; please plan to upgrade to a current release
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05:26<sveta>I am reading man page for 'bts'. I wish there was a separate one for 'bts select' because the way it is right now is difficult to read.
05:26<peter1138>yeah it's timing out "waiting" for the lvm devices
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05:27<twb>sveta: I don't know much about bts select, sorry. I usually just do something like "bts show src:qemu archive=both" which for me uses w3m, and then "bts show -m 123456" to view a bug in mutt.
05:27<sveta>I keep doing things like 'bts select package <package name>' and 'bts select affects <package name>' because the man page does not have examples anywhere close to the option for them.
05:27<twb>sveta: another useful page is the QA page
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05:28<sveta>I don't have a working *browser* in this environment. At the very least, not one with working text boxes (or search engines). If the QA 'page' is in a package then I would be able to view it.
05:29<twb>Ah no, this:
05:29<twb>sveta: a good way to find these things is to lurk on #debian-mentors
05:29<twb>peter1138: do you eventually get a shell where you can do stuff?
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05:30<twb>peter1138: systemd timeouts are typically 90s
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05:32<ach>more like some different action come wanted to update so last chance is update in some actualization process took some source from squeeze got a fail upgrade to wheezy so far so less upgrade to wheezy failed i doesn't know but apt kept secure system is squeeze
05:32<peter1138>endless loop waiting for activation of lvm, lsb, udev
05:33<FLD>how do you make a bridge in networkmanager?
05:34<peter1138>i just reset the machine and this time it booted fine, very quickly.
05:35<peter1138>and now it's booting fine every time. yum.
05:35<peter1138>just as i say that, it stalls again
05:35<peter1138>so an intermittent issue
05:37<FLD>it seems its not possible to make a network bridge with KDE's network manager tool
05:37<aidalgol>twb: Is there some reason for that default? It seems... wrong not to have root automatically checked.
05:37<FLD>its somehow bugged
05:38<FLD>every time you try to "Connect" br0, it just says Deactivated
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05:39<peter1138>twb, this is a fresh 8.3 install using the guided lvm partitioning
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05:41<twb>Dumb question: have you used marked any of the LVs as explicitly "read only"?
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05:41<twb>In 2010 I bricked an ubuntu upstart system by doing that, which broke it's fscker
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05:42<twb>If you boot with break=bottom, then do something like "sleep 300 && exit 0", does the problem go away?
05:43<aidalgol>(Pedantic aside: you can't brick an installation; bricking is something that can only be done to embedded systems.)
05:43<peter1138>twb, nope. it's nothing but a fresh minimal install.
05:44<twb>aidalgol: I agree, I find the lack of fsck by default surprising. I don't do d-i installs often enough to know if this is normal.
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05:45<twb>peter1138: from your screenshots, the problem appears to be somewhere between lvm/udev/systemd.
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05:46<sveta>What setting controls 'bts show''s understanding of what email client to use?
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05:47<twb>sveta: $MAILER probably
05:47<twb>sveta: or it might be hard-coded to use mutt.
05:47<sveta>that one isn't set, but it's trying to use mutt
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05:47<twb>sveta: querybts can download the mbox
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05:48<twb>mutt is the default because AFAIK all other mailers suck at "just let me read this mailbox without polluting my own personal mailbox"
05:48<aidalgol>twb: actually, it *was* there; I just didn't see it because there was only a single space separating the dump and options columns, so I read field six as field five. :P
05:48<sveta>(we have 3-4 commands which do something, I'm already starting to forget which does what, and now I should understand something about data storage)
05:48<sveta>i see
05:48<twb>aidalgol: this is what I have:
05:49<aidalgol>twb: -10 points for UUOC
05:49<twb>aidalgol: where?
05:49<aidalgol>uh, oops...
05:49<aidalgol>I read that so fast my brain saw the grep invocation as a cat invocation
05:50<aidalgol>-100 for me for not reading a clear one-liner properly.
05:50<twb>I normally write it as grep -vE '^[[:space:]]*(#|$)'
05:50<aidalgol>um, why?
05:50<twb>Because otherwise it won't omit comments with leading spaces, and blank lines
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05:51<peter1138>twb, definitely seems like a timing issue somewhere. if i set the vm to only have 1 cpu core it never stalls.
05:51<aidalgol>I am amazed that the (#|$) works like that...
05:51<twb>peter1138: THAT is interesting
05:51<twb>It's a pity that systemd doesn't have a MAKEFLAGS=j2 like sysvinit did in Debian 7, where you could directly control the level of parallelism
05:52<peter1138>by "never" i mean i have rebooted or reset lots of times and it hasn't stalled yet. with 4 cores it happens after a few reboots.
05:53<twb>peter1138: FYI it also wasn't clear from your original problem report, that this only happens SOMETIMES
05:53<ach>maybe you could look out ramfs tools like i read the screen but don't know set kvm
05:53<peter1138>twb, it's more than that
05:54<twb>ach: sorry, I do not understand.
05:54<twb>ach: your native language is German?
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05:54<twb>dpkg: tell ach about de
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05:55<ach>yes and had in such...
05:55<peter1138>it just booted fine, i did a clean reboot and it stalled. i reset and it booted fine again. another reboot was fine. another and it stalled. another reset it failed. another reset it booted.
05:55<peter1138>sometimes i can keep on rebooting/resetting and it will always stall.
05:55<peter1138>which is what was happening when i first mentioned it.
05:56<twb>peter1138: the shitty workaround method is to add ExecStartPre=/bin/sleep 60s, to /etc/systemd/system/something.service.d/yuk.conf
05:56<twb>Working out what "something.service" to patch can be hard
05:56<twb>Ah, you probably also need [Service] above ExecStartPre
05:56<twb>On Debian 9 you can do "systemctl edit something.service", but systemd v215 is too old for that
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05:58<peter1138>6/win 36
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06:04<peter1138> Hmm
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06:07<peter1138>emergency.service start-pre operation timed out < useful
06:07<twb>The start-pre operation is to run echo :/
06:08<twb>(bottom bit)
06:08<twb>Oh, there's also plymouth in there
06:08<twb>peter1138: is plymouth installed? I think only GUIs get it by default.
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06:08<twb>Does installing it "fix" things?
06:09<twb>I have seen that behaviour under upstart, because the maintainers hated server people and exceptions weren't handled well unless plymouth was there to display them in a "pretty" splash way
06:09<peter1138>i'll install it
06:09<peter1138>just realised that /boot is a not on LVM on this VM
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06:12<twb>peter1138: yeah that don't matter now I understand this is failing AFTER switch_root
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06:16<peter1138>weird, after i installed plymouth and reboot, had a load of systemd-udevd messages display...
06:16<peter1138>rebooted again and they didn't appear
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06:17<peter1138>still no emergency shell with plymouth installed
06:17<twb>oh and add "splash" to boot options
06:17<twb>Before the "---" if there is one
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06:19<peter1138>well still stalls, now i just have 3 dots on my screen :)
06:21<twb>The ESC key toggles those off, but it means that it didn't help
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06:21<peter1138>yeah, still no shell :(
06:22<twb>I was hoping it would go from three dots to "fsck is unhappy about ..., continue anyway? [y/N]"
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06:22<peter1138>well that would be interesting on a headless server in a datacentre...
06:22<twb>peter1138: I'm basically stuck now, sorry
06:22<twb>peter1138: yes! :/
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06:23<twb>peter1138: better hope your BMC exists, accessible, and not completely insecure
06:23<twb>Not like I have to keep a VM around with java 6 just to VNC-inside-java into the flipping things, oh no...
06:23<peter1138>of course anything can happen on an unclean shutdown. but this is happening after a clean one too.
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06:26<peter1138>twb, i also don't get how no one else has this issue. i have it spread over different physical and virtual machines. weird.
06:27<jm_>no one reported it in bts?
06:27<twb>peter1138: as for me, I have only used systemd on diskless systemd so far :-)
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06:27<peter1138>no one knows what to report it against, maybe :)
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06:28<twb>peter1138: pick one of udev/lvm2/systemd and let the maintainers reassign it as necessary
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06:29<peter1138>does seem like it's udev
06:29<twb>udev is part of systemd anyway, so meh
06:29<peter1138>if i turn off quiet, the last real message seen is "Starting udev Kernel Device Manager..."
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06:31<peter1138>heh, according to bts there are no bug reports in systemd. or i'm misusing it
06:32<twb>"bts show src:systemd dist=stable archive=both"
06:32<jm_>it shows plenty for me
06:32<twb>maybe there are so many your browser has overloaded
06:33<peter1138>ah, i had a filter active somehow
06:33<twb>Huh, how do you do that
06:33<twb>greasemonkey or something?
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06:34<peter1138>no, just typed in the wrong field somehwere :P
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06:45<peter1138>so tempted just to switch to sysvinit but that won't get the problem fixed
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06:48<twb>and mdev, mmmmyeah
06:48<twb>If you look at udev's parser code you will cry
06:48<twb>The reason there's no ABNF explaining the udev .rules syntax is because the parser is mixed in amongst the "do things" parts of the code
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06:49<twb>It's why == isn't commutative and you need to say things like ENV{foo}=="$env{foo}"
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07:14<peter1138>hmm, well sysvinit boot/shutdown is certainly slower than systemd
07:14<peter1138>otoh it doesn't stall
07:14<twb>peter1138: I think that depends how riced they are
07:14<peter1138>default configs i guess
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07:15<twb>maxim: idiomatic, "optimized" (often for the worse)
07:15<jm_>I haven't noticed much difference going to systemd, but I did have parallel boot configured
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07:15<twb>startpar was on by default in debian 7
07:16<twb>in debian 6 it would have been noticably slower
07:16<jm_>also used upstart, not any faster than that either
07:16<twb>I'd actually prefer it to be a bit slower and actually boot reliably, which debian 7 did (thanks, pere!)
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09:07<peter1138>also, recovery mode boots fine
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09:51<svetlana>twb: i didn't understand how this thing does auth about the mail,there is some comment which i do not parse the mechanism of
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10:25<pjotter>Hate to bring this up again. But I still having problems with pulseaudio/pavucontrol on Debian 8.+ Xfce amd64. Pavucopntrol doesn't remember settings on reboot. With a simple log-out and log-on, the settings are saved though.
10:25<pjotter>I anyone has any good suggestion I'd be happy to try them.
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10:26<mtn>pjotter: make a new user and try it as that new user. maybe it is a config problem in your normal user directory
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10:27<pjotter>mtn: Yes, I tried that too. It didn;t work. Same problem with other users too.
10:27<mtn>pjotter: which version of debian?
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10:28<pjotter>I'm now on Debian 8.0 but yesterday I tried 8.3 with the same problems.
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10:28<mtn>pjotter: 8.3 was a fresh install?
10:28<mtn>pjotter: did you install a desktop during the install?
10:28<pjotter>This one too. Only things I installed were pulseaudio, pavucontrol, radiotray
10:29<pjotter>mtn: Yes, I installed from a live CD 'graphical install'. The desktop is automatically installed
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10:29<mtn>pjotter: then why did you install pulseaudio? it should have been there by default
10:30<pjotter>mtm: Only 'weird' thing about my setup is that I use two soundcards. But I think that shouldn;t be a problem, right?
10:30<pjotter>mtn: As far as I know, Debian Xfce doesn;t come with pulseaudio or pavucontrol.
10:30<pjotter>Just alsa.
10:31<mtn>pjotter: do you have alsa-tools installed?
10:31<pjotter>Let me check
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10:32<pjotter>No, alsa tools are not yet instaled
10:32<mtn>pjotter: do you have alsa-tools installed?
10:32<pjotter>DO you think that may be the problem?
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10:33<pjotter>I went ahead and installed alsa-tools now.
10:33<mtn>pjotter: yes, if it is not installed. but, you never answered my question
10:33<pjotter>What question?
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10:33<mtn>pjotter: ok, reboot and test
10:34<mtn>pjotter: if it was installed or not. I asked twice
10:34<pjotter>I replied ' pjotter: No, alsa tools are not yet instaled'
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10:34<pjotter>I'll be right back, mtm
10:34<mtn>pjotter: ah, I missed it.
10:34<pjotter>np ;)
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10:37<pjotter>mtn: No luck. Still the same.
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10:38<mtn>pjotter: sorry. not sure what else would cause that. I guess you could purge pulseaudio and reintall it
10:38<pjotter>When I just do a log out- and in.... the settings are correctly saved and restored. It is only when I do a complete reboot that the settings are not restored.
10:38<mtn>pjotter: in case the default settings/configs are incorrect
10:40<pjotter>mtm: Yes, I also tried that. No change.
10:41<pjotter>mtn: I want to try to physically remove one of the sooundcards to see if that changes anything.
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10:41<mtn>pjotter: sounds like a good test
10:42<pjotter>Just hate to unplug all those wires and open up that dust bin :D
10:43<pjotter>But anyhoo... I'll give it a try and report back in here.
10:43<pjotter>mtm: Thanks for the help!
10:43<mtn>pjotter: welcome. good luck
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10:50<klo>anyone knows something about qubes os ?
10:51<mtn>klo: not supported in this channel
10:51<grove>We know that it's not debian
10:51<klo>where do I go for qubes os ?
10:52<mtn>klo: check their website and/or google
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10:56<pjotter>mtn: Ok, tested it.
10:57<pjotter>While I was at it, I first tried another soundcard I had laying around here. Same problems.
10:57<pjotter>Then I proceeded with only the onboard soundcard.
10:58<pjotter>Also with only the onboard soundcard in the system, settings from pavucontrol are not correctly restored after a reboot.
10:58<mtn>pjotter: something is wrong with your install, but I don't know how to fix it
10:59<mtn>pjotter: using a netinstall, I have never had a problem like this
10:59<pjotter>I understand,.
10:59<pjotter>You think it might be related to the kind of installation?
10:59<mtn>pjotter: I think so
10:59<pjotter>I could try that
11:00<pjotter>Yeah, maybe try that first before bothering the folks in #pulseaudio :)
11:01<pjotter>I'll get right to it then. Thanks again and maybe see you later!
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11:03<chele->,v apt-tor-transport
11:03<judd>No package named 'apt-tor-transport' was found in amd64.
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12:19<gas>Hi! I am wondering, why installing VLC requires installing quassel (which is an IRC client), and why removing VLC is not possible without removing quassel? Seems like an error somewhere in dependencies...
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12:22<mtn>gas: which version of debian?
12:22<gas>The vlc package page on doesn't list quassel, maybe there's a problem with my cache?
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12:22<gas>mtn: debian 8.2
12:23<dpkg>In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
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12:36<sney>gas: if you pass --no-install-recommends to your apt run, does it still try to install quassel along with vlc?
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12:37<blast007>it's probably quassel's dependency on phonon, which depens on either phonon-backend-vlc or phonon-backend-vlc (the latter of which is a virtual package provided by any of phonon-backend-gstreamer, phonon-backend-null, phonon-backend-vlc, orphonon4qt5-backend-gstreamer)
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12:37<blast007>or phonon-backend*
12:37<gas>sney: it's vice versa, it tries to install vlc with quassel. I've just tried, --no-install-recommends doesn't affect it.
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12:38<Sebastinas>gas: If you do not want vlc you need to install another phonon-backend.
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12:41<gas>Thanks, guys.
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13:48<russ>i can honestly HONESTLY SAY these computer problems have driven me to do drugs
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14:08<grantwu>Hi, I'm a bit curious about the current status of packaging ZFS for Debian
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14:09<grantwu> says that "The Debian project has announced their intention to ship ZFS in Debian and that work is currently ongoing", where can I find out how that's going?
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14:12<scootergrisen>How do i install libgegl-dev version >= 0.3.5 on Debian Jessie?
14:12<dpkg>ZFS (originally Zettabyte File System) is a file system / logical volume manager developed by Sun Microsystems ( The Debian GNU/kFreeBSD kernel since 7.2 has ZFS support, the userland utilities are packaged as zfsutils. Native linux support is described and packaged at but cannot be included in Debian due to license conflicts.
14:12<retrospectacus>,v libgegl-dev
14:13<judd>Package: libgegl-dev on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.2.0-2+nmu1; jessie: 0.2.0-7+b1; stretch: 0.3.4-1+b1; sid: 0.3.4-1+b1; jessie-multimedia: 1:0.2.0-dmo8; sid-multimedia: 1:0.3.6-dmo2
14:13<grantwu>retrospectacus: Hi - The link I included, which is from the ZoL project, contradicts that statement.
14:13<retrospectacus>scootergrisen: little chance. why?
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14:13<scootergrisen>I want to build GIMP
14:14<retrospectacus>,v gimp
14:14<judd>Package: gimp on amd64 -- squeeze: 2.6.10-1+squeeze4; squeeze-security: 2.6.10-1+squeeze4; wheezy-security: 2.8.2-2+deb7u1; wheezy: 2.8.2-2+deb7u1; jessie: 2.8.14-1+b1; stretch: 2.8.16-1; sid: 2.8.16-1
14:14<grantwu>retrospectacus: Specifically, they refer to which states that "We received legal advice from Software Freedom Law Center about the inclusion of libdvdcss and ZFS in Debian, which should unblock the situation in both cases and enable us to ship them in Debian soon."
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14:18<retrospectacus>grantwu: well, the bug report linked also has lots of info. It looks like it's not quite ready
14:18<scootergrisen>Have to go. Be back some other time.
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14:21<grantwu>retrospectacus: Hrm... yeah, the bug report is a bit unclear, but it seems like even people on the bug report are a bit confused as to the legal status, which is apparently not available to the public
14:21*Maulkin is very aware on the legal status if you need info.
14:22<Maulkin> may help
14:22<grantwu>Maulkin: :O Many thanks
14:24<FLD>something is still badly wrong with jessies gamin package
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14:24<FLD>it deadlocks almost every day for me in KDE
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14:26<And1>Hey folks. Any ideas on NFS not starting after reboot? nfs-kernel-server[376]: Not starting: portmapper is not running ... (warning).
14:29<abrotman>so start portmapper
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14:31<And1>abrotman: Why is not started automatically?
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14:32<FLD>gamin can be replaced by libfam
14:32<FLD>haha what a pitfall
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14:35<abrotman>And1: check yhour logs
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14:37<And1>abrotman: Does this help?
14:37<abrotman>not to me .. can you start it now?
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14:38<And1>abrotman: Yeah it works after restarting rpcbind and nfs-kernel-server, but after reboot, I would have to do it again. That’s kind of enerving.
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14:39<abrotman>and it's set to _netdev in fstab?
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14:40<And1>abrotman: Excuse, why do I need fstab for this?
14:41<And1>abrotman: Oh ok, sure, to mount the device. No there’s nothing in fstab but 'errors=remount-ro,noatime'. It’s an export, no mount, though.
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15:35<And1>abrotman: Seems to be a debian problem or bug for over a year now. "systemd[1]: Job rpcbind.service/start deleted to break ordering cycle starting with"
15:35<And1>Because nfs-kernel-server and rpcbind still use legacy init scripts instead of systemd, if I understood this correctly …
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15:49<xkomczax>Hi all, what is the smartest way to remap left mouse button click to left win key? Debian testing - KDE5
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16:19<fractal618>Hey #debian, I am just wondering if anyone else finds the Mouse Speed slider too fast, even at the lowest setting. (debian 8 xfce)
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16:24<Tury>hi guys. i will be much smarter if someone tell me how to make this -> a button
16:24-!-mith_ [~mith@] has joined #debian
16:25<Tury>the short verson
16:25<sney>Tury: this is #debian, are you asking for help with ubuntu?
16:25<Tury>i installed it on debain...
16:25<Tury>so go to ubuntu chat? or steam chat?
16:26<sney>no, if you are using debian, it's fine to ask here.
16:26<sney>you could use a bash alias
16:27<mith_>why apt-get doesn't update leap-keyring package?
16:28<mith_>with upgrade there is the warning that that package is mantained at the same version
16:28<sney>,v leap-keyring
16:28<judd>No package named 'leap-keyring' was found in amd64.
16:29<sney>is that a 3rd party package?
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16:37<Tury>how to rewrite / delete aliases?
16:37<Tury>bash aliases
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16:42<jmcnaught>Tury: unalias. There's a whole section about ALIASES in "man bash"
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16:46<Tury>bash have a man? *shame*
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16:46<Lordz>Hi All. I'm trying to install a package in Squeeze, but the repositories are out 'cause it's EOL. Do you know the archive address ?
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16:47<dpkg>Volunteer-provided security support for Debian 6.0 "Squeeze" ended on 2016-02-29 for a limited set of packages for i386 and amd64. An appropriate line for your sources.list is «deb squeeze-lts main». See also the «check-support-status» command from the debian-security-support package and for more information. #debian-lts on
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16:49<DI0X>] :-[
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16:53<mith_>sney, perhaps is of the bitmask package that I have installed
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16:57<mith_>sney: "This is a transitional package to ease upgrades to the
16:57<mith_>leap-archive-keyring package. It can safely be removed."
16:58<mith_>the leap-keyring package exists
16:58-!-hele_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:58<mith_>it could be a 3d party package
16:58<retrospectacus>dpkg, tell mith_ about bat
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17:01<retrospectacus>the robot sent you a message
17:01<mith_>yes yes...
17:01<retrospectacus>follow the instructions and your problem will be much easier to work with
17:01-!-JBek [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:02<mith_>ok retrospectacus, thx
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17:04<pjotter>Hi everybody
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17:05<pjotter>For the last couple of days I have been struggling with a problem in Debian 8.3 with pulseaudio and pavucontrol. NO matter what I did, pavucontrol wouldn't remember the settings after a reboot.
17:06<pjotter>Today mtm gave me a suggestion that actually did the trick
17:06<mtn>pjotter: I did? what was it?
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17:06<pjotter>He suggested I should install from a netinstall instead of a live CD. So, I did and now everything works as expected.
17:07<pjotter>Hey mtn!
17:07<mtn>pjotter: I am glad that worked
17:07<pjotter>Yeah, me too,. Thanks a lot!
17:07<mtn>pjotter: welcome
17:07<pjotter>Now I am just wondering why the Live CD has these bugs on it?>
17:08<pjotter>I always thought that the Live CD and Netinstall would be the same
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17:10<pjotter>Anyway. Just wanted to let you guys know that mtn was right: Sometimes, wierd errors and unexplained behaviour can be the result of using the Live CD install in stead of the netinstall.
17:12<retrospectacus>they're different. Debian Live is a kinda separate project oriented around a live (non-persistent) experience... includes an installer but I guess it is not exactly the same
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17:13<pjotter>retrospectacus: Indeed. I would not expect it to be diffrent, but for some reason they are and in my case resulted in an unexplainable bug.
17:14<retrospectacus>there is #debian-live channel that might know something about this bug or where to report it
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17:14<pjotter>Ok, I'll try it. Thanks
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17:30<Gutte>is this the official crunchbang forum_
17:30<Gutte>or burn
17:30<Gutte>I feel alone
17:30<jmcnaught>Gutte: no, this is the #debian channel.
17:31<Gutte>well, crunchbang is debian based Qustion
17:31<Gutte>question mark
17:32<Gutte>Well, God bless you all... I really miss crunchbang, yup Im a noob.
17:32<Gutte>linux noob
17:32<retrospectacus>take it outside
17:32<Juest>this is not your channel, please search again.
17:33<Gutte>so... crunchbang is not debian based question.
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17:33<Gutte>Im sorry i have not danish keyboard on.
17:33<Juest>aha, you dont know symbols?
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17:33<retrospectacus>Gutte: you should install debian. Way better
17:34<Juest>oh you dont know wheres your question mark?
17:34<Gutte>I have english keyboard on a danish keyboard
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17:34<Gutte>so no
17:34<Gutte>why are you trying to down me... have i done anything to you.
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17:34<dpkg>CrunchBang Linux is a Live CD distribution originally based on <Ubuntu>, now based on Debian as of version 10, featuring the <Openbox> window manager. It is not supported in #debian. #crunchbang on See <based on debian>.
17:35<jmcnaught>Gutte: ^^^ if you want to use Debian we can help, otherwise you want the channel listed above
17:35<awar>hi all
17:35<Gutte>ya im running the live usb thing at the moment
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17:35<Gutte>not sure if it still exist but thanx.
17:35<awar>i have still problem about the bumblebee
17:35<retrospectacus>1) cb no longer exists 2) only debian is supported here 3) non support conversation is not allowed
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17:36<jmcnaught>Juest: please stop making fun of people. this is a place to help people, not smugly feel superior for knowing more.
17:36<awar>i have follow the instruction about this error: [ERROR]Cannot access secondary GPU - error: [XORG] (EE) /dev/dri/card0: failed to set DRM interface version 1.4: Permission denied
17:36<awar>but not work the solution in the official debian wiki page
17:36<Gutte>ahhh, sorry about that. i just thought they had pointed to the channel they talked crunchbang in.
17:36<awar>my video card is 860M Ge force
17:36<Gutte>and this was the channel.
17:36<retrospectacus>Gutte: as was said; #crunchbang on
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17:36<awar>have you any idea for resolve this problem?
17:36<Gutte>okay thx
17:37<Gutte>think it just crashed
17:37<Juest>idont know why i am here
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17:38<Gutte>God bless you all, Jesus bless you all the way. Bye everybody
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17:38<awar>please is already second time that install the operative system. Please help me! THanks
17:38<pjotter>mtn: Whoops.. another problem arose :S I used to be able to fix the issue of Debian not recognizing my monitor and choosing the wrong resolution by installing firmware-linux-nonfree. I'd install it, reboot and voilà... everything was fine. With the netinstallversion, this does not work and monitor stays in low res. Should I install additional packages?
17:39<mtn>pjotter: perhaps a video driver? look at the debian wiki for details
17:40<awar>mnt have solution for me?
17:40<awar>mtn, :D
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17:56<awar>guys possible there is not a solution to this problem?
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17:57<pjotter>mtn: OK, fixed it. I accidentally installed the wrong packet
17:58<mtn>pjotter: oops!
17:58<pjotter>well.. I accidentally installed 'firmware-linux'. Should have been 'firmware-linux-nonfree' ofcourse.
17:59<pjotter>So, I guess I'm all set now for the big 'jump' over to Debian then.
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18:08<jmcnaught>awar: you have two GPUs? is it an optimus system?
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18:08<pjotter>There was this packet that I neede to install in debian xfce for Thunar to be able to explore the local network. But I forgot the name. Does anyone know what it was?
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18:18<somiaj>!tell pjotter about search
18:19<somiaj>pjotter: hmm, I'm not seeing any speciifc thunar plugin for that.
18:19<somiaj>(at least as an indivudial debian package)
18:19<pjotter>Never mind. I already got it.
18:20<pjotter>vfs-backends and gvfs-bin are nessecary for thunar to be able to actually see and browse the local network.
18:21<somiaj>ahh yea I need to rembering about the backends. (:
18:21<somiaj>I don't use such tools, but like to be able to help
18:21<pjotter>What tools? thunar you mean?
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18:23<pjotter>What are 'backends' in general?
18:23<somiaj>pjotter: it is a vague tearm that usually means the underlying libaries/framework
18:24<somiaj>so in this case vfs provides a lot of core tools or an api that is not that 'user friendly'. Then other programs can use the api to talk to the backend and let it do the work.
18:24<somiaj>so thunar just knows how to talk to the software that does the actual work.
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18:25<pjotter>I see
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18:26<pjotter>Shouldn't those backends be included in the default Debian xfce installation?
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18:27<DrZaius>is there a way to make apt give you the real dependence that is making some package installation to fail recursively?
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18:28<DrZaius>it only gives you the direct dependence of a package, but not the dependences of dependences that are that are making the dependence to fail
18:28<DrZaius>not sure if is clear what im asking :) its kind of annoying so i think something is missing in my workflow
18:30<pjotter>Would be great to see some kind of tree structure of dependencies. NO idea if this is possible though.
18:30<somiaj>pjotter: at some level it depends on what and who is deciding what is default. I like to use program X in my xfce, shouldn't that rpogram be included by default?
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18:31<somiaj>DrZaius: apt isn't that good at determinging which package is the actual culprit. i.e. when it goes though a loop and findins a nosolvable case, it can't really decided which package is to blame. Was the original package or something in the tree
18:31<pjotter>I understand. But thunar is -the- default filemanager in the xfce version. It's extremely likely that users will at some point in time try to acces their local networks with thunar.
18:32<somiaj>DrZaius: that being said there is apt-cache --recurse depends packagename
18:33<DrZaius>somiaj, well it knows more than it shows... when some dependence fails to install, it sure knows what dependence of dependence condicion is not being meet
18:33<mtn>pjotter: maybe, but I never have had the need for it ;)
18:34<somiaj>DrZaius: it is a little bit annoying that it gives you the first conflict, so it starts down a loop, and always returns the very first package in the chain that has the dependency issue
18:34<pjotter>mtn: How come? Do you never access your local network in thunar?
18:34<somiaj>DrZaius: the reason is because it doesn't take the time to identify the problem, it just detects it and responds with the first. May not always be the best, but that is what it seems to do
18:34<somiaj>pjotter: many people use other tools to access the network, or mount a file system with say cifs, nfs, etc
18:34<mtn>pjotter: right. I have never had the need
18:34<somiaj>pjotter: there are lots of different ways to achive something.
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18:35<somiaj>pjotter: but also, that is what wishlist bugs are for, make a wishlist bug for xfce-core (orwhatever xfce metapkacge you think is all of xfce) to depend on gvfs
18:35<somiaj>pjotter: also what meta package did you use to install xfce4?
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18:36<pjotter>somiaj: NOt sure what you mean by 'meta package'?
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18:37<somiaj>pjotter: how did you install xfce
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18:37<pjotter>somiaj: I used the debian netinstall, added/selected xfce desktop. That's it.
18:37<somiaj>(xfce is a lot of packages that are linked together, a meta package is a top most package that pulls in everything)
18:37<pjotter>I see
18:37<DrZaius>somiaj, i would be okay if i would get the first conflict... but as i see it, it doesnt even show the first complete conflict...
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18:37<somiaj>pjotter: so you installed this meta package, task-xfce-desktop, you should ahve that on your system. This is the one that then decides what ot pull in
18:37<DrZaius>for example this is happening on jessie with backports right now:
18:38<DrZaius>i have to manually dig what is the first real package that fails to install
18:38<DrZaius>dependence of depence... why cant it show the first chain that fails to install? :S
18:38<somiaj>DrZaius: correct, because it is giving you the first conflict in the loop
18:39<somiaj>DrZaius: it tries to install python-letsencrypt when then tries to isntall something else, etc
18:39<Ouroboros>letsencrypt sounds awesome btw
18:39<somiaj>DrZaius: problem is you have backport packages mixing with jessie packages and this can cause apt to get confused if you have some packages that are the backports version
18:39<DrZaius>mmm... well, alright... you mean on a literal loop... i thought you meant the first conflit of a possible "list" of conflicts :)
18:40<somiaj>DrZaius: i.e. it looks like every package you want to install comes from backports, so why aren't you including -t squeeze-backports
18:40<DrZaius>Ouroboros, well, the official script works pretty well... i was trying to use the debian packages tho :)
18:40<somiaj>DrZaius: i.e. it says you have to install the backports version, but you are trying to install th enon-backports version (due to default pinning of backports)
18:41<somiaj>DrZaius: "python-letsencrypt (= 0.4.1-1~bpo8+1) but it is not going to be installed" very first error said it was due to not installing python-letsencrypt from backports (and unfonrtally this is one of the know issues with backports and pinning)
18:41<Ouroboros>DrZaius: dunno, havent tried it yet
18:41<pjotter>somiaj: Does that mean that it is better to turn off backporst in general? (I have backports enabled)
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18:41<somiaj>pjotter: but feel free to look at bugs or file a wishlist bug, as why sin't this included by default in xfce. Many times dependencies ar eupdated to include the stuff and not jsut be suggested (which is probabaly what you'll find out is the vfs-backends are only suggested packages but not required)
18:42<DrZaius>somiaj, well, what do you know, -t jessie-backports worked... i expected it would take the backports version of packages... but i guess its lower
18:42<somiaj>DrZaius: backports are pinnined in such a way that you won't automatically upgarde to them when you run apt-get upgrdae (very important policy). The side effect is you can hit dependency issues if you have part of your depends require jessie packages and part require jessie-backports
18:43<DrZaius>so for how long have i installing backports wrong? :S
18:43<somiaj>pjotter: it is safe to have the repo, the issue is jessie-backports packages will not be installed unless explicity asked.
18:43<Juest>oh, i tried debian on a acer aspire 722 bz454 but it didnt work well
18:43<DrZaius>be installing*
18:43<Juest>damned conexant hermosa and the amd hdmi sitting in front of it -_-
18:43<pjotter>somiaj: I'm just starting my 'Debian journey' so I might do that in time. I just got my system up and running here.
18:43<somiaj>pjotter: so it could be possible after installing a few things from backports to hit an issue where apt will error out because the install you request needs a backport from backports, but it wno't install it due to the pinning.
18:43<DrZaius>i guess it does install them when is the only version available u.u
18:44<Juest>on ubuntu i suffered issues with suspension and X
18:44<somiaj>Juest: what didn't work well?
18:44<Ouroboros>DrZaius: welcome to apt, enjoy your stay :)
18:44<Juest>somiaj: hardware fully working properly on that hardware
18:45<Juest>i should retry since jessie came after
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18:45<Juest>since jessie is out*
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18:59<Ouroboros>hm, so zfs or btrfs?
19:00<somiaj>ext4 here, but I see no reason to need any of the features of zfs or btrfs.
19:00<Ouroboros>you dont want checksums, snapshots etc?
19:00<sney>btrfs is available, just not used by default. zfs is not included because of licensing issues.
19:00<jmcnaught>LVM with ext4 is also worth considering
19:01<DGuser>What about xfs?
19:02<jmcnaught>LVM in jessie can do cache volumes and thin snapshots
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19:04<wpostma>Are there any instructions on the web for setting up schroot to host an alternative chroot jail of debian jessie inside debian jessie?
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19:04<Ouroboros>sney: doesnt seem like there is any license issue if its a separate module?
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19:04<wpostma>One thing that is messing me up is that the debootstrap binary does not appear to get installed by the debootstrap package.
19:05<somiaj>wpostma: what? That seems incorrect
19:06<wpostma>There are some weird instructions on the web about downloading and installing debootstrap...
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19:07<somiaj>wpostma: debootstrap: /usr/sbin/debootstrap -- it is just put in sbin because do to how it needs to write things with root permisiosn (ui=0 files) a user can't really run it
19:07<wpostma>Oh I see. But a user CAN run it when they point it at a /opt/jail/chroot dir
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19:07<somiaj>wpostma: what do you mean? The user isn't running debootstrap
19:08<somiaj>wpostma: the user is running schroot though even chroots have to be run as root. Unsure about schroot
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19:08<wpostma>Some of the instructions seem to say "now run debootstrap <args>".
19:08<jmcnaught>wpostma: i used to get started with schroot, but i also had to read the man pages and confs
19:08<somiaj>guess it does allow users to run things in a chroot, how nice
19:09<somiaj>wpostma: that only creates a minimial chroot, you still need to set it up and this is done as root.
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19:09<somiaj>the user can only use it once root has set it up
19:09<wpostma> shows
19:09<wpostma>mkdir -p /srv/chroot/test && debootstrap wheezy /srv/chroot/test
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19:10<somiaj>wpostma: correct, but this has to be run as root.
19:10<wpostma>Oh I see. If I wanted a non-root user to beable to do this, then I would have to make them a script with setuid.
19:10<jmcnaught>wpostma: i haven't used schroot since jessie was testing, but i did use debootstrap as a regular user in my /home (and configured stuff in /etc as root)
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19:11<jmcnaught>wpostma: what are you trying to do with the chroot?
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19:11<wpostma>I have built GCC 6 from sources and wanted a chroot jail to install it into.
19:11<somiaj>wpostma: you can configure a chroot and then users can run things in side of it, but if you want to have one chroot per user, you'll have to create each one.
19:12<somiaj>wpostma: you can even build it in the chroot to make it easier.
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19:12<somiaj>wpostma: do you not have root access on this machine?
19:12<wpostma>yes, I had root, but because I didn't know it was in /usr/sbin I was confused. That was my problem! Thanks!
19:14<somiaj>wpostma: are you going to have other users be running stuff in this chroot, because if not, no real need for schroot, and just use chroot, you just have to be root. Once you are inside the chroot you can make another user and become that user if needed to be non-privlaged
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19:14<wpostma>oh I see. So schroot is just a way to let a non-root user enter the chroot.
19:14<somiaj>wpostma: schroot just allows users to run stuff inside the chroot from outside, which may not be needed if you are just wantint to test/build with gcc-6 in a chroot
19:14<somiaj>wpostma: not really enter, but run stuff inside of it.
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19:15<somiaj>though I guess you could run bash inside the chroot and have a shell, so same thing
19:15<wpostma>Ok. I might find it useful to run stuff inside, say, run a makefile with GCC6 active.
19:15<somiaj>wpostma: but if it is just you, it might be as easy to chroot into it as root and just build inside
19:15<somiaj>i.e. you may not need any extra setup of schroot
19:15<wpostma>ah. ok.
19:16<somiaj>It is quite common to build in chroots (gives a clean build enviorment) and there are tools like pbuilder that automate this process
19:16<wpostma>schroot seems to support some mysterious options like union-type which I can't find many docs on either. Maybe those need some kernel config changes.
19:17<somiaj>I haven't used schroot since that was the way to get 32bit softawre on an amd64 system, and schroot was set up so you could run xapps inside a 32bit root
19:17<somiaj>multiarch has come a long way. (:
19:18<somiaj>but anyways for building stuff I just use chroot, it is already setup, easy enough to use and I don't see any compeling reason you would need schroot to build with gcc-6 inside a chroot
19:18<wpostma>ok. I think just chroot and su are enough for me, and forget schroot for now.
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19:39<wpostma>Looks like building GCC outside the chroot and doing make DESTDIR=chrootdir install results in a broken GCC that can't find
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19:41<wpostma>oh no I just need to apt-get some crap into the chroot jail. nvm.
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20:17<awar>hi all
20:17<awar>i need a problem with the optirun
20:17<awar>it no work
20:17<awar>and return this error: [ERROR]Cannot access secondary GPU - error: [XORG] (EE) /dev/dri/card0: failed to set DRM interface version 1.4: Permission denied
20:18<awar>have you any idea?
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20:19<awar>and i try install no-free driver but not work the all os
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20:19<awar>we not found solution
20:19<awar>can you help me?
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20:56<lancelot>Hello, which one is better, wine or winpr?
20:59<jmcnaught>lancelot: this is the first i've heard of winpr, but after a quick web search it seems that wine and winpr are for two different things
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21:01<lancelot>i thought winpr does something similar to wine
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21:03<jmcnaught>lancelot: i'm reading the description of the package, but clearly i don't know more about it. i also don't use wine though.
21:07<jmcnaught>lancelot: it seems to me like stuff would need to be built specifically for winpr, where wine tries to provide a complete windows API
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21:11<lancelot>i'll take note on that
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21:25<lancelot>and don't come back!
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---Logclosed Sat Mar 19 00:00:48 2016