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#debian IRC Logs for 2016-09-22

---Logopened Thu Sep 22 00:00:18 2016
---Daychanged Thu Sep 22 2016
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01:00<rastacat>Does anyone have a suggestion for how to get a mini-display port working on a thinkpad w530 I recently installed Jessie on? I installed Bumblebee (along with the nvidia drivers that come with it-non free) because I thought that the dp might use the nvidia card but it still doesnt work. I would like to connect to my samsung tv as a monitor using a minidisplayport to hdmi converter. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated! :)
01:01<rastacat>Also in case anybody is online reading this, it worked on windows 7 on the same computer so it isn't a hardware issue.
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01:03<jm_>if you look in xorg log the driver should tell you which ports are detected/connected, xrandr output should also reflect that
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01:15<rastacat>ok I will see what that says. Right now Im trying to figure out how to check those things.
01:16<jm_>xrandr - just run it, for the log it's /var/log/Xorg.0.log (text file)
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01:18<MTecknology>Shouldn't the hyphen at the start of the line in a pam config keep the line from impacting anything if the module isn't available? That's not just in pam.conf, is it? I'm trying to do it in a pam.d/file.
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01:19<rastacat>it says no protocol specified cant open display :0
01:20<rastacat>when I type in xrandr to konsole or xrander -q
01:20<jm_>you need to run xrandr in X session
01:20<rastacat>ok. It has been years since I used linux so I could be missing very basic things.
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01:21<jm_>MTecknology: I have never heard of such a thing in pam.conf and man page does not mention it either
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01:23<MTecknology>jm_: "If the type value from the list above is prepended with a - character the PAM library will not log to the system log if it is not possible to load the module because it is missing in the system. This can be useful especially for modules which are not always installed on the system and are not required for correct authentication and authorization of the login session. "
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01:23<MTecknology>right from the man page..
01:23<jm_>MTecknology: doh
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01:24<MTecknology>I've been reading pam docs over the past couple days trying to really wrap my head around it. It looks like that only works for type and that kinda screws with moving the type to its own file
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01:24<MTecknology>seems like a bug (feature request) for upstream
01:25<jm_>might need sufficient or optional maybe
01:25<jm_>but then what's the point of - ...
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01:26<MTecknology>jm_: that's not what the hyphen does...
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01:27<jm_>MTecknology: it is somewhat similar - treat the failure as non-fatal
01:28<MTecknology>ehm... not raising an error for the stack vs. ignoring an unavailable module seem like very different things both in theory and in practice
01:28<rastacat>based off what xrandr says I dont think it recognizes I have anything connected. Says screen 0, current 19x20 x 1080, max 8192 x 8192 (wtf?) then lcds1 connected primary (which I think is my laptop screen.) then lists a bunch of resolutions and on the botton says VGA1 disconnected
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01:29<rastacat>says same thing whether the cord is connected or not (to the tv)
01:29<jm_>rastacat: probably because intel driver is in use, but your other ports are on the nvidia card
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01:30<MTecknology>not raising a failure **
01:30<rastacat>How do I make sure it uses the nvidia card? I installed the drivers but I am unsure what to do from there to make sure it's used.
01:31<MTecknology>frick, I'm clearly too tired to keep reading pam
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01:34<jm_>no idea for optimus setups, but bbswitch seems to be able to turn card on/off at boot etc.
01:35<jm_>do you have /proc/acpi/bbswitch?
01:35<jm_>cat /proc/acpi/bbswitch
01:35<rastacat>No I don't, is that a package I can get?
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01:36<jm_>yes, the wiki page says it's automatically installed
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01:37<jm_>maybe the module is just not loaded
01:37<rastacat>Then I should have it and I just didnt know. Do I have to configure it to switch to the Nvidia next time I boot and then restart?
01:37<rastacat>I'm sure I have it let me go look
01:37<jm_>try find /lib/modules/$(uname -r) | grep bbsw
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01:38<rastacat>Yes I have it
01:39<jm_>then try to load the module, see /usr/share/doc/bbswitch*/README*
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01:40<jm_>looks like load_state=1 turns it on
01:40<rastacat>permission denied? despite being in root
01:40<jm_>what did you do?
01:40<rastacat>pasted the command that ends with the README
01:40<jm_>it's a text file, read it in an editor/pager/...
01:41<rastacat>oh wow -_- I should have recognized that
01:41<rastacat>I guess I thought that command would open the txt
01:41<rastacat>though there is no "command" if I look at it
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02:53<rastacat>well I dont know what happened or why but shortly after running the bbshow command to turn on the nvidia driver when I was reading on the readme how to make it load it at boot KDE crashed and then I had to restart and when I did I had to run fdisk to fix all kinds of errors and then it still rebooted into a black screen and KDE immediately crashed again and little windows for every program I had running popped up to say the
02:53<rastacat>directory wasn't writeable. Then when I was just sitting there looking up what to do on my phone my desktop wallpaper and the KDE interface all loaded again but even now in hexchat it says I dont have write access.
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03:01<jm_>sounds like your file systems are mounted read-only, check with mount
03:05<rastacat>Yes, you're correct. that blows my mind though.
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03:06<rastacat>I mean how could I have been downloading things and editing files like that.. thank you so much for your help I really am lost, I suppose.
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03:07<jm_>did you reboot after fsck?
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03:10<rastacat>I didnt know how to do it without pressing the button manually so thats what I did
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03:12<rastacat>power button that is
03:12<jm_>reboot command?
03:12<rastacat>yes I dont know what it is I tried halt and tried reboot and it didnt respond
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03:13<jm_>it would probably be best to reboot in recovery mode, then run fsck on all partitions and reboot again
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03:15<rastacat>is -r the correct reboot command?
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03:17<rastacat>shutdown -r is what Ill use. Ill do what you said and come back
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03:18<jm_>yeah shutdown or reboot will both work
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05:40<duairc>Is anybody familiar with the on-disk format of LUKS partitions?
05:40<duairc>Specifically, if I've accidentally overwritten the first ~10kB of my LUKS partition, am I completely screwed?
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05:41<duairc>I know the key with which the master key was encrypted, but not the master key itself. I never made a backup of the header.
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07:42<Logg>I ran "aptitude upgrade" to see what would happen and it's been running for about a half hour now "resolving dependencies". So far, it says "open: 306785; closed: 870526; defer: 188; conflict: 507" and I think it'll just keep counting up forever at this point. How could it possibly open and close a million of anything package related? is it updating a database? what is it doing? "aptitude upgrade" turns out to not be in the manual (only safe-upgrade and
07:42<Logg>full-upgrade) so I have really no idea what it is even doing and I don't want to stop it and cause broken packages and have to free the dkpg lock by rebooting or whatever
07:43<hewl>that seems out of the ordinary. Are you on stable, unstable or testing?
07:43<jm_>upgrade should be the same as safe-upgrade
07:43<Logg>cat /etc/debian_version says 8.6
07:43<themill>!show sources.list Logg
07:43<dpkg>Logg: Please pastebin the contents of your /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list. The easiest way to do this is to pastebin the output of: head -v -n -0 /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*}
07:44<Logg>I just added testing to sources.list to grab one package
07:44<themill>yeah well there you go
07:44<hewl>it's upgrading everything to the testing branch man
07:44<Logg>I thought there would be a confirmation dialog.
07:44<Logg>where's my y/n/q
07:44<themill>Once it can work out what to do, there will be
07:44<jm_>it shows that once it has figured out what to do, it's overwhelmed with work
07:45<Logg>A million though?
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07:45<Logg>closed: 969000
07:45<hamidi>hi all
07:45<themill>aptitude is unlikely to be able to upgrade from jessie to stretch
07:45<hamidi>i've a problem during installation of debian (jessy)
07:46<hamidi>it says: LILO not usable on EFI PCs without BIOS compatibility; use grub-efi
07:46<hamidi>what can i do?
07:46<jm_>probably do as it says, install grub-efi
07:46<hamidi>how? i'm in the middle on installation of debian
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07:47<hewl>isn't an option presented to you?
07:47<hamidi>i'm not familiar with debian
07:47<hewl>are you using the graphical or text based installer?
07:47<jm_>you can do it manually on tty2
07:47<hamidi>in the graphical installation it errors. i found this text in the text console
07:48<hewl>you can probably just cancel the installation of the bootloader (that's the step you're currently on) and enter it again
07:48<hamidi>i may try, but the installation is in progress
07:48<hewl>that is, back out of it, and try installer the bootloader GRUB again
07:49<jm_>installing boot loader is the last step isn't it?
07:49<hewl>no need to cancel the entire installation btw
07:49<jm_>so just do it manually and skip it in the installer
07:49<hamidi>you mean i cancel the installation and boot the system again with the installation media? if so, the process begins from first. doesn't it?
07:49<jm_>no need to boot it again, do it now before the reboot
07:49<hewl>no, you should be able to cancel only the grub installation
07:50<hewl>it will take you back to the menu
07:50<jm_>yeah don't cancel everything, just installing the boot loader
07:50<hewl>where you can select which part of the installation you want to resume at
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07:50<hamidi>i got it, thx
07:50<hamidi>before skipping the step, it's better to manually do what has failed. right?
07:51<hewl>you can do either, manually is a tid bit more involved though
07:51<hewl>if the installer is outright failing to install any bootloader then you'll have to do it manually
07:51<hamidi>is there an option other than manual installation while the automatic installation fails?
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07:52<hewl>ok I think we need to clear something up
07:52<hamidi>and what command exactly i have to run?
07:52<hewl>the installer is a set of scripts which install packages from the disc, or the net if it's a net install
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07:52<hamidi>i've two hard disks
07:53<hamidi>no i boot the system by flash
07:53<hamidi>it's an offline system
07:53<hamidi>it has two hard disks
07:53<hewl>then everything would be installed from disc
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07:53<hamidi>the installation of debian is done on /dev/sdb
07:53<hewl>if you skip the bootloader installation, you'll have to install it from the repositories later on
07:54<hewl>you can do this with apt-get install grub or by the graphical package installer, if your DE has one
07:54<hamidi>if i skip installing boot loader i won't be able to boot the system to access the repo
07:55<hamidi>the only DE is what is installing
07:55<hewl>you can still boot into the system, the bootloader will give you the proper options to more easily choose other systems to boot
07:55<hamidi>indeed i've no control over it
07:55<hewl>then you'd have GNOME, which comes with a graphical package installer
07:55<hamidi>yead but when no bootloader is installed?
07:55<hewl>when no bootloader is installed, then the last installed operating system boots. Generally
07:56<hamidi>it's a clean hard disk
07:56<hewl>if your BIOS supports it, you can change the order of boot devices to boot into another system
07:56<hamidi>i mean before installing
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07:56<hamidi>there's no other OS on the system
07:56<hewl>oh sorry, I missed you stating you've got two hard disks
07:56<hamidi>BIOS probably doesn't recognize ZFS thoug
07:57<hewl>so I presume you've already got an OS on one disk, and you're installing debian to the other
07:57<hamidi>no! it's just a backup hard disk
07:57<hamidi>no OS on it
07:57<hewl>ah, ok. So we're only dealing with one operating system?
07:58<hamidi>yeah, the one i'm going to install
07:58<hamidi>what's EFI essentially?
07:58<hewl>from my knowledge you should be fine without grub installed, but the booting procedure might be complicated
07:59<hewl>EFI is the newer standard for boot procedure. The old standard was MS-DOS or BIOS.
07:59<hamidi>if i don't install grub, who will boot system?
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08:00<hamidi>before installing debian, i used to install ubuntu. i had not this problem.
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08:01<hewl>so the installer does not install grub at all?
08:01<hamidi>give me the command please. maybe i will try it on the console
08:02<hewl>the command would be sudo apt-get install grub, and then you'd use grub-install to install it to the correct partition on your disk
08:02<jm_>don't forget you need to chroot first
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08:03<hamidi>but it's an offline system
08:03<hamidi>ok repo is just the flash. right?
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08:04<hewl>oh, I'm not familiar with installing packages with apt-get straight from a media
08:04<hewl>I'm sorry but I wouldn't know how to do that if the installer is failing to do so
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08:05<hamidi>let's think calmfully
08:05<jm_>on tty2 chroot to /target, run apt-get install grub-efi
08:05<hamidi>and i found this error too:
08:05<hamidi>grub-install: error: cannot find EFI directory
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08:06<hewl>how did you partition your disk?
08:06<hamidi>now going to run the command
08:06<jm_>then you already have the package installed, just putting grub where it should go failed
08:06<hamidi>the entire disk is two primary partitions, 1 ext4 and 1 swap
08:06<hewl>I thought EFI needed its own little boot partition to work
08:06<hewl>let me check
08:06<jm_>that's wrong for EFI
08:07<jm_>and it has to be GPT too
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08:08<hamidi>how to ignore EFI and let grub do it?
08:08<jm_>so you'll want to a) fix this and reinstall, or b) switch to legacy mode in BIOS, install non-efi grub
08:09<hamidi>let's try a
08:09<hamidi>how to fix it
08:09<hamidi>it errors: apt-get not found
08:09<jm_>I recommend to let the installer create partitions, instead of creating it on your own
08:10<hewl>I second that
08:10<hewl>the debian manual doesn't properly describe what to create for an EFI system
08:10<jm_>I have to go now, no doubt others can help
08:11<hamidi>it seems that debian is not as updated as ubuntu. am i wrong? i had not this problem with ubuntu
08:11<hewl>ubuntu uses debian stable as its based, so most of its packages are as old as it
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08:12<hewl>however ubuntu is its own operating system, thus the way it deal with packages is different
08:12<jm_>debian should install just fine on EFI systems
08:12<jm_>the issue is with NVME drives
08:12<hamidi>hmm, don't know what to do now
08:12<jm_>but you don't have that
08:12<hamidi>apt-get fails
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08:12<jm_>anyway off
08:13<hewl>are you signed into chroot?
08:13<hewl>that is, at any point, did you have to type in your username and passward to tty?
08:13<jm_>it's probably not in path, but as I said, the package is likely there, just grub-install failed
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08:13<hewl>oh, and do make sure you write "sudo" before the command!
08:14<hamidi>for me as a non-expert let's go on step-by-step
08:14<hamidi>i hit Ctrl+Alt+2
08:14<hewl>ok, where are you at right now?
08:14<hamidi>it saied hit enter
08:14<hewl>so that brings up the terminal
08:14<hamidi>i entered the # prompt
08:14<hamidi>then i typed sudo apt-get install grub-efi
08:15<hamidi>and it errored that apt-get not found
08:15<hamidi>although when prompt is # there may be no need for sudo
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08:15<hewl__>sorry I just tried to open my terminal but accidentally killed my x server
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08:15<hamidi>now i'm typing with you with another computer
08:16<hewl__>ok, so you still have the installing system on?
08:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 717] by debhelper
08:18<hewl__>so open the terminal on that system
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08:18<hamidi>ok, then?
08:18<hewl__>what happens if you type "man apt-get"?
08:18<hamidi>man: not found
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08:19<hewl__>then that means you have not installed debian AND signed into it
08:19<hewl__>this is a bit beyond my scope but I'll still try to help with what I can
08:19<hamidi>sure, it's not yet completely installed
08:20<hamidi>thanx hewl
08:21<hewl__>what about "man chroot"?
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08:22<hewl__>this terminal is a real bugger
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08:23<hamidi>indeed i need no boot menu
08:23<hamidi>the OS is the only one
08:23<hamidi>may i ignore installing grub?
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08:24<hewl__>that is what I thought but you'd be entirely relying on your BIOS/EFI to properly boot into it, and it may not be successful
08:24<hewl__>worse case scenario is that it simply doesn't boot and you'll have to put the install disc again
08:24<hewl__>to get access to the terminal
08:24<hewl__>best case scenario is that it boots and you can use apt-get to install grub
08:25<hamidi>as another option, may i boot the system later and let ubuntu try to install grub?
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08:25<hewl__>You're installing debian, right?
08:25<hamidi>and please let me know that whether you suggest debian for me if i'm familiar with ubuntu?
08:26<hewl__>ubuntu may be using a different version of grub than debian is, although this probably doesn't matter too much
08:26<hewl__>You should be able to do that, but you'd need to make sure your installing and configuring it to boot into debian, not ubuntu
08:26<hamidi>ok, so now what can i do?
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08:27<hewl__>you can finish the installation (if installing the bootloader is the last step you need to do, then you're done and can choose the exit option)
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08:27<hewl__>and then see if it boots, if it doesn't try installing grub (via the installation disc or ubuntu) and try again
08:28<hamidi>but it doesn't seem to be the last step
08:28<hewl__>what are the steps listed, then?
08:28<hewl__>they are different for each install
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08:29<hamidi>ok, nevermind. i continued from the next step and it's now done
08:29<hewl__>each step can work independent from one another
08:30<hamidi>now after boot i see:
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08:30<hamidi>error: file '/boot/grub/i386-pc/normal.mod' not found.
08:30<hamidi>Entering rescure mode...
08:30<hewl__>are you able to get into terminal from there?
08:30<hamidi>grub rescure> _
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08:31<hamidi> i think i've got a 32 bit image :( right?
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08:31<hamidi>what does i386 do there?!
08:32<hewl__>it shouldn't matter too much,
08:32<hewl__>but in general most motherboards support both
08:32<hamidi>but i need performance
08:32-!-gargaml [~js@2a01:e35:2e25:4d40:ea2a:eaff:fede:7510] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:32<hewl__>ok what happens if you type "update-grub"?
08:33<hamidi>it says that it's an unknown command
08:34<hewl__>what about "boot"?
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08:36<hamidi>i've an idea
08:36<hamidi>if something is wrong is BIOS let me know what it is
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08:36<hamidi>then i will fix it
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08:36<hewl__>one second
08:36<hamidi>and install the debian from the beginning
08:36<hewl__>you may not have to install it all again
08:37<hewl__>you installed to hd0 yes?
08:37<hewl__>or was it sd0?
08:37<hamidi>i installed to /dev/sdb1
08:37<hamidi>it's attached to the second bus
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08:38<hewl__>alright, so that is a non-default position
08:38<hamidi>at least installer detected that the other HDD be the first
08:38<hewl__>what happens if you type "set prefix=(hdb,y)/boot/grub"?
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08:39<hewl__>instead of (hdb,y) it should be (hdb,1)
08:39<hamidi>i did with no error
08:39<hewl__>ok, so retype that command except do that replacement I mentioned
08:39<hamidi>again with 1?
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08:40<hamidi>i did
08:40<hewl__>then type "insmod (hdb,1)/boot/grub/linux.mod". Does that take you into the normal grub command line, not rescue?
08:42<hamidi>it errors: disk 'hdb.1' not found.
08:42<hewl__>you need to use a comma, not a period
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08:42<hamidi>yeah it's comma, sorry
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08:43<hamidi>it should not be sdb instead of hdb?
08:44<hewl__>try "set prefix/(hd1,1)/boot/grub"
08:44<hamidi>maybe i've to change the order of hdds in bios?
08:44<hewl__>and then "insmod (hd1,1)/boot/grub/linux.mod"
08:44<hewl__>if that doesn't work, finally try (hd1,0)
08:45<hewl__>and yes, we are referring to hd at the moment and not sd
08:45<hamidi>this time prefix/ instead of prefix=?
08:45<hewl__>my apologies, prefix= is correct
08:46<hewl__>have you successfully entered the normal grub command line?
08:46<hamidi>error: no such partition
08:47<hamidi>going to try hd1,0
08:47<hewl__>then try again with (hd1,0)
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08:48<hamidi>the same
08:48<hewl__>ok how about we just boot from uefi
08:48<hamidi>what is it?
08:48<hewl__>it's the command line of your bios
08:48<jepler_>hi, anyone know if affects jessie? I see its openssl version is above the one the advisory notes is affected in default configuration.
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08:49<jepler_>.. but no DSA seems to have been issued as yet
08:49<hewl__>accessing it is different for every motherboard so, if you don't know how to do it then it'll be a bit hard to get up
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08:49<hamidi>let me go a look
08:50<hewl__>protip: it's del to enter the setup menu on most modern motherboards, that might tell you more information
08:50<hamidi>i think i had to do this at first :(
08:50<hamidi>yeah i know
08:51<hewl__>honestly I never had this much trouble just getting debian to boot, the trouble I had was getting the right graphics driver afterward haha
08:52<hamidi>in BIOS i just found UEFI: USB USB Hard Drive in Boot Option #1
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08:52<hamidi>u mean that?
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08:52<hewl__>what happens if you boot it?
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08:53<hamidi>if you mean i've to boot from flash, it's possible by pressing F12 and choose flash in boot menu
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08:54<hamidi>it's a GIGABYTE - UEFI DualBIOS
08:54<hamidi>i still don't know what really is UEFI
08:54<hewl__>UEFI is a boot procedure. That is all. It's different and incompatible with the older BIOS boot procedure
08:55<hewl__>so when you install a bootloader for instance, you need to let it know what type of boot procedure you'll be using. Usually it can automatically detect it
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08:55<hewl__>so attempt booting into flash. Do you still get that useless command line from grub rescue?
08:55<hamidi>now u want to know am i able to boot from flash?
08:56<hamidi>certainly not, because it won't try to boot from hard disk
08:56<hewl__>Yes, try booting from flash
08:56<hamidi>before booting
08:56<hamidi>i found an interesting option also in bio
08:57<hamidi>PCI ROM Priority
08:57<hewl__>what would that be?
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08:57<hamidi>Legacy ROM is not selected
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08:57<hamidi>EFI Compatible ROM is selected
08:57<hamidi>may be non-relevant
08:57<hewl__>PCI are cards you've installed on the motherboard. That should not affect whether the operating system boots or not.
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08:57<hewl__>Stuff like graphics cards, USB extensions, etc.
08:58<hewl__>You'll want to use them later but to simply boot an OS you don't need them
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08:59<hamidi>system may boot from flash with no problem
08:59<hewl__>that is, you've booted into debian successfully?
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09:00<hamidi>certainly not! i may just boot from flash
09:01<hamidi>like when no hard is available
09:01<hewl__>ah, ok. my apologies
09:01<hamidi>hey, let's examine something.
09:01<hamidi>when i boot from flash C brings up GRUB Command Line
09:02<hamidi>tell me what to run in it
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09:02<hamidi>let's try again
09:02<hewl__>not the rescue command line but grub's actual command line?
09:02<hewl__>ok that is good
09:02<hewl__>what does "ls" give you?
09:02<hamidi>lots of things:
09:03<hewl__>ok it's ok
09:03<hewl__>you don't need to list them
09:03<hewl__>that's just to confirm that you are indeed in an operating system's hard-drive
09:03<hamidi>(memdisk) (hd0) ...
09:04<hamidi>before going on let me persist that i really need my data on the first hdd (the zfs partition)
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09:04<hewl__>grub will not damage that data, it is ok
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09:05<hamidi>it may write to mbr of the first hdd instead. no?
09:05<hewl__>mbr is used by BIOS boot procedure
09:05<hewl__>if you are using EUFI then it will not
09:05<hamidi>anyway, let me know what to do please
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09:06<hewl__>analyse the output from ls, now we are going to try what we did again before
09:06<hewl__>"set prefix=(hd0,1)/boot/grub"
09:07<hewl__>and then "set root=(hd0,1)"
09:08<hewl__>this is going to put you in the working directory of grub on the operating system, hopefully
09:08<hamidi>the set prefix caused error
09:08<hamidi>6 errors issued
09:08<hewl__>so close
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09:09<hewl__>what does "ls /" output?
09:09<hamidi>file /boot/grub/x86_64-efi/zfs.mod not found
09:09<hamidi>it was one of the 6 errors
09:10<hamidi>lists some files and folders
09:10<hewl__>if it is similar to "lost+found/ etc/ media/ ..." then you are already in the root of your operating system, if not then we need to properly figure out which we need to be in
09:11<hamidi>let me list
09:11<hamidi>autorun.inf boot/ css/ debian ...
09:11<hamidi>it seems to be the flash content
09:12<hewl__>and we did not want to actually boot into the flash, correct? You want to boot into your hard-drive
09:13<hewl__>let me rephrase that to be 100% sure
09:13<hewl__>what did you install debian to? A hard-drive or a flash drive?
09:14<hamidi>i tried to install debian from a bootable debian flash into my second hard disk
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09:14<hewl__>ah ok, so effectively, there are two operating systems connected to your computer right now. That is why there was a bit of confusion on my part before.
09:15<hewl__>don't worry, here is what we are going to do
09:15<hewl__>switch over to the hard-drive. To do that we need to know what (hdX,Y) we need to use. What does "ls" by itself output?
09:15<hamidi>but there's only one OS on hdd
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09:16<hewl__>Yes, but there IS an operating system on your flash, another one that you will disconnect after installing debian onto the hard-drive.
09:16<hamidi>let me list all of 'ls' content. i think it's required
09:16<hewl__>Please do.
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09:18<hamidi>(proc) (memdisk) (hd0) (hd0,gpt9) (hd0,gpt1) (hd1) (hd1,msdos2) (hd1,msdos1) (hd2) (hd2,msdos2) (hd2,apple2) (hd2,apple1)
09:18<hamidi>i hope i didn't mistake
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09:18<hewl__>woah that is a lot of connected drives, give me a moment
09:19<hamidi>just a flash and two hard disks
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09:19<hewl__>ok, so apparently you have three physical drives connected to your computer right now. One hard-drive with an operating system installed on it, another with an operating system, and another with TWO operating systems installed on it.
09:19<hewl__>is this true?
09:20<hamidi>hmm don't think so
09:20<hamidi>let me say what i did
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09:20<hamidi>in the 1TB hard disk i'm going to install debian now ubuntu 16.04 was installed. let's call it the second hard disk
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09:21<hamidi>in the 2TB hard disk no OS is installed. let's call it 1st hdd. it's partitioned by ZFS
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09:21<hamidi>the 2nd hdd is partitioned to two primary partitions. one ext4 and one swap
09:21<hamidi>that's all
09:22<hamidi>i wonder why it shows so many partitions
09:22<hamidi>maybe ZFS makes smaller partitions for handling the ZFS partition
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09:23<hewl__>I can't say I'm familiar with how ZFS works. This is the first time I've heard of it. By Sun Microsystems?
09:23<hamidi>it's wonderful
09:23<hewl__>Anyway, we don't need to care too much about that because it's NOT the hard-drive we are installing debian onto, correct?
09:23<hamidi>software RAID
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09:23<hamidi>transparent compression
09:23<hamidi>so easy to use
09:24<hamidi>anyway, it seems that 1st hdd is shown as hd0
09:24<hamidi>hey, i've an idea
09:24<hewl__>and that is the ZFS drive
09:25<hamidi>let's boot the system with a ubuntu live and see what partitions really exist by gparted
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09:25<hewl__>the hd2 drive is your USB, as factored by the existence of apple partitions
09:25<hewl__>so by process of elimination, hd1 is the drive we want to boot debian from
09:25<hewl__>so, "set root=(hd1,msdos1)"
09:25<hewl__>does that give you an error?
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09:26<hamidi>no error
09:26<hewl__>type in "ls /" again. Is there a folder called /boot anywhere?
09:26<hamidi>examine it with set prefix?
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09:27<hamidi>yeah :)
09:27<hewl__>set prefix is a command to change the working directly. I just want you to use "ls /" to look at where we are
09:27<hamidi>lost+found/ etc/ media/ vmlinuz ...
09:27<hewl__>ok, so now we are fairly certain that we're in the hard-drive with debian
09:28<hamidi>yeah :)
09:28<hewl__>so NOW we do "set prefix=(hd1,msdos1)/boot/grub"
09:28<hamidi>ok, but what does msdos do here?!
09:28<hewl__>msdos is simply another way of saying the older BIOS boot procedure.
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09:29<hewl__>grub has probably used that because BIOS is still more compatible than EUFI is
09:29<hewl__>I mean UEFI sorry
09:29<hamidi>before installation begins, it prompted something about it
09:29<hamidi>ok set prefix done with no error
09:30<hewl__>right now...
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09:30<hewl__>we are using grub2 and I need to look up if the commands from here on are the same
09:30<hewl__>normally you type "insmod normal" followed by "normal" but that may not work here
09:31<hamidi>u mean i first enter "normal"?
09:31<hewl__>first you enter "insmod normal"
09:31<hewl__>and then you enter "normal"
09:31<hewl__>but I'm fairly certain that was for grub1, and you are using grub2
09:31<hewl__>the command may not have changed, though,
09:31<hewl__>so it might work
09:32<hamidi>with no error
09:32<hewl__>it did
09:32<hewl__>so... are you still in grub's terminal?
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09:32<hewl__>try "boot" now
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09:33<hamidi>rescue mode again
09:34<hewl__>why is this so hard
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09:34<hamidi>hey i think we have to enter /boot/grub/i386-pc instead of /boot/grub
09:34<hamidi>because it says:|
09:34<hewl__>I'm sorry, I've never had things not work so much for me before during boot
09:34<hamidi>error: file '/boot/grub/i386-pc/normal.mod' not found
09:35<hewl__>what you can do is boot the installation disc again, go into expert installation and JUST install grub again. If that doesn't work then you can use the installation disc to get into a rescue terminal and maybe you can do more from there
09:35<hewl__>you need to TRIPLE CHECK that you are installing grub to the correct hard-drive, and then tell your BIOS to boot that first
09:36<hamidi>hey, let's downgrade the BIOS. is it possible to say it not to use UEFI?
09:36<hewl__>Yes. Generally. Most motherboards that boot via UEFI also support booting by BIOS.
09:37<hewl__>Generally, they differentiate this by listing UEFI boot procedure as "UEFI [hard-drive name]"
09:37<hewl__>and then later in the list, just "[hard-drive name]" for BIOS boot.
09:37<hewl__>you'd want to select the "[hard-drive name]" to try and boot with the BIOS procedure
09:38<hewl__>oh sorry, I should clear something up. BIOS both refers to your motherboard's setup menu AND the boot procedure. They are one and the same, but UEFI is JUST a boot procedure.
09:38<hamidi>i changed it. seems not to have such an option
09:38<hamidi>did u get the note i told before?
09:38<hewl__>which was that?
09:38<hamidi>"hey i think we have to enter /boot/grub/i386-pc instead of /boot/grub"
09:39<hamidi>"because it says:"
09:39<hamidi>"error: file '/boot/grub/i386-pc/normal.mod' not found"
09:39<hamidi>it doesn't error that file /boot/grub/normal.mod not found
09:39<hewl__>I do not believe we need to enter that. We simply tell GRUB where its file are, and then it selects the appropriate sub-folder to boot up the machine.
09:40<hewl__>If it selects i386-pc then that means it's chosen to boot up a 32
09:40<hewl__>-bit operating system.
09:40<hewl__>like, if we were booting up a 64-bit OS, it would look for /boot/grub/amd-64/normal.mod
09:41<hewl__>if we were booting up an ARM processor device, it would look for /boot/grub/arm-64/normal.mod etc.
09:41<hamidi>i see
09:41<hewl__>there is another way
09:41<hewl__>do you still have the grub command line up?
09:41<hamidi>i brought it again
09:41<t4b>My laptop has a camera for which no driver exists, I don't care. The annoying bit is that the control light of the camera is permanently on. It lights up somewhere around second 15 in that log: and stays on until I shutdown.
09:42<t4b>Any ideas how to find out how to turn it off?
09:42<hewl__>but really if your camera is not being activated then it shouldn't be lighting up.
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09:43<hewl__>anyway, sorry, back to booting
09:43<t4b>hewl__: If I'm going that route, then I'm ripping the whole camera unit out instead. :-D But then I would need to open it up, and it's taped close.
09:43<hewl__>we will attempt to load linux's kernel manually
09:44<hewl__>so "set root=(hd1,msdos1)"
09:44<t4b>hewl__: Well, maybe NSA (or a pervert, or both) are spying on me, but I doubt it.
09:45<hamidi>ok, then?
09:45<hewl__>and then "linux /boot/vmlinuz-3.2.0-14-generic root=/dev/sda1 ro"
09:46<hewl__>if this does not work then try the installation disc again and afterward the rescue mode from the installation disc
09:46<hamidi>ls / this time issues 4 errors in addition to the hdd content
09:46<hewl__>I'm sorry but I have to go very soon,
09:46<hewl__>do you have any question about what you can do before I leave?
09:46<hamidi>u may mean /dev/sdb1. right?
09:47<hewl__>ah, yes YES that is right
09:47<hewl__>because we are dealing with the second physical drive
09:47<hewl__>sorry, I'm just used to everything being on the first drive
09:47<hewl__>this is why you TRIPLE check
09:48<hamidi>ok np
09:48<hamidi>i did.
09:48<hamidi>i got no error
09:48<hewl__>but I am kind of in a rush now so best of luck with it and see you later, remember you can always go to the forums for more help, though they're a bit slow
09:48<hamidi>but still in grub terminal
09:48<hewl__>try "boot"
09:49<hewl__>ok sorry, really have to go, bye and good luck!
09:49<hamidi>the same
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09:49<hamidi>Entering rescue mode...
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10:10<tda>How do i get munin to collect information from the nodes? I've triple checked the hostname, but node is denying the connection, the master is hitting a fatal error in some perl script
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10:23<jrms>tda: you have to authorize the master in the node config...
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10:32<tda>jrms: yes, but how do i do that? all i have to do is set its ip address and make sure the hostnames match right?
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10:34<jrms>tda: kinda, yes...
10:35<tda>what else then?
10:36<jrms>tda: that should be it... but maybe the allow regex is not fine then, or something like that
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10:41<t4b>lshw says "capabilities: ecc" and "configuration: errordetection=multi-bit-ecc" about my memory. The chipset does not support ECC and it's a cheap netbook so even if it did, no ECC memory would be used by the manufacturer.
10:41<t4b>Looks like a bug. Or am I reading something wrong? Should I report this somewhere?
10:43<tda>t4b: can you paste the full output?
10:44<t4b>tda: sure, around line 32:
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10:47<tda>that does seem kind of strange. the only thing i can think of is that board is shared something else that does have ecc, but most likely still a lshw bug
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11:16<t4b>tda: I reported it, let's see what they say
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11:17<tda>i got my munin to connect the node, but now there are no graphs, even though their are plugins enabled. what now?
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11:42<babybee>I have problem with booting my system from encrypted usb after running some windows 7 installation disk briefly to check content... here is details..
11:42<tda>munin-node graph anything even though plugins are enabled. any ideas?
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12:08<tda>how do you get munin-node to do anything? is there some hidden command or config to turn it on 'for real?'
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12:13<jrms>tda: the graphs are created on the master side... usually launched by munin-cron...
12:14<tda>jrms: then its either not getting anything or not displaying it
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12:16<tda>added the use_host_name option set to no. not clear if thats needed or not, i dont care what name it uses at this point
12:18<jrms>tda: I think that's only to show (or not) the server name in the graphs
12:18<tda>jrms: yeah thats my understanding of it too
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12:20<jrms>tda: on the node side you can use munin-run to check the plugins are running...
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12:21<jrms>tda: on master side telnet client.node 4949 and the list/fetch etc...
12:21<tda>there is no munin-run
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12:22<tda>list shows the plugins
12:22<jrms>fetch plugin?
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12:22<tda>fetch just shows unknown service
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12:23<tda>i can fetch any plugin i try
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12:23<jrms>so it should work? :$
12:23<tda>thats what ive been saying all morning
12:23<jrms>I mean, the master graphs should be generated once munin-cron runs... (munin-graph in fact)
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12:28<hamidi>hi all
12:29<hamidi>i've a zfs partition ported from ubuntu. i've data in it. how to mount it in jessie?
12:29<someguest>Hi all; I'm having an issue with (I think) dpkg/debconf -- during package upgrades, a postinst script exits with status zero (tested by a bit of fiddling), leavning /usr/share/debconf/frontend hanging trying to read from fd#8, which is a pipe to something. (h)top is showing a child process with the identifier '<package-name>.po' with the suspended state, and zero memory usage. Hang exceeds my 30 minute p
12:29<someguest>atience window. Anyone recognise this state / any suggestions?
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12:31<somiaj>,v zfs-dkms
12:31<judd>Package: zfs-dkms on amd64 -- jessie-backports/contrib:; stretch/contrib:; sid/contrib:
12:31<somiaj>,v zfsutils-linux
12:31<judd>Package: zfsutils-linux on amd64 -- jessie-backports/contrib:; stretch/contrib:; sid/contrib:
12:31<somiaj>hamidi: it looks like you will need a newer kernel from jessie-backports along with various other packges.
12:31<somiaj>,v zfs-fuse
12:31<judd>Package: zfs-fuse on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.7.0-8; jessie: 0.7.0-12; stretch: 0.7.0-13.1; sid: 0.7.0-13.1
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12:32<hamidi>i did this:
12:32<somiaj>hamidi: well you might be able to just use zfs-fuse without backports. But with backports you get access to zfsutils-linux and other packages for the OpenZFS fs in linux
12:32<hamidi>sudo dpkg -i zfsonlinux_6_all.deb
12:32<somiaj>I woudln't install a random deb unles you know it was built for jessie.
12:32<hamidi>sudo apt-get update
12:32<hamidi>sudo apt-get install lsb-release
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12:33<hamidi>sudo apt-get install debian-zfs
12:33<somiaj>espically since you can get the zfs packages in jessie-backports
12:33<hamidi>but zpool or zfs didn't get available
12:33<hamidi>did i mistake?
12:33<hamidi>i should uninstall them?
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12:34<hamidi>about zfsutils-linux it says it's not available
12:34<hamidi>and about zfs-fuse it says it's already installed
12:34<blast007>undo whatever you've done and activate backports:
12:35<somiaj>hamidi: I said these are in jessie-backports
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12:35<hamidi>sorry i'm a newbie
12:35<hamidi>i'm not familiar with backports. what is it?
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12:35<blast007>hamidi: click the link I gave you
12:36<hamidi>ok thx
12:37<babybee> I have problem with booting my system from encrypted usb after running some windows 7 installation disk briefly to check content... here is details..
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12:40<hamidi>ok i added the line to sources.list then apt-get update and now what to do?
12:42<blast007>have you removed the other stuff you installed?
12:42<cruncher>babybee, i dont understand what you mean. enc usb? meaning oyu have the key there for an enc system? or did you install it all to the usb key? what means a windows7 inst. disk? if you started the recovery env of win7, it wouldnt change anything until you told it so. and why yould you use that to check content anyway? there are beter ways to do that (linux live cd?)
12:42<blast007>lsb-release was probably already installed, so that's fine
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12:43<someguest>(disregard my request; it's related to ntpd opening fd#8 inside service restart, due to how we deployed it.)
12:43<hamidi>no, i just confused. what to remove?
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12:43<blast007>debian-zfs doesn't show as a package for me, so is that something that actually installed for you?
12:45<babybee>cruncher, I used windows 7 installation disc to check what is the very content of that disc, what system exactly. I run installer for a while and I cancelled it and exit almost at the beggining of process. USB is just encrypted drive I mention . Both can be irrelevant . I just cant run my system as usual its broken as pasted online.
12:45<hamidi>oh my! i should have run zpool with root
12:46<babybee>cruncher, grub is on the usb
12:47<cruncher>babybee, well, i dont know up to what point you ran the win7 install, but if you ran over the partitioning and just selected the standard settings the linux partition is gone
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12:48<babybee>cruncher, I didnt . I run this debian i am speaping with you right from that same usb grub, just choosed different system from grub menu.
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12:49<babybee>cruncher, i did not choose any partition to install , I cancelled instalation and exit by menu before it.
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12:49<blast007>hamidi: you'd want to remove debian-zfs and zfsonlinux (and then make sure that it removed /etc/apt/sources.list.d/zfsonlinux.list ) and whatever else it installed from that repo
12:49<babybee>I can access that grub right from here its on USB on unencrypted part
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12:51<cruncher>babybee, well, if its really after the install disk, it must have changed something, and the only thing it could change is the mbr or some partition. Did you check that all partitions are there where they should be?
12:51<cruncher>if everything is there, it micht just be a coincidence then that it happened after the win7 cd
12:52<babybee>exactly cruncher , what happens all the time is that i quit system with reset button as logoff never works right
12:52<babybee>maybe this is reason it got all in mess
12:53<cruncher>babybee, yes, maybe anyway, i would start a debian rescue system, mount the system, and reinstall grub
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12:53<cruncher>or if you just installed it, reisntall it fresh, that might be the easiest
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12:55<babybee>cruncher, I will do debian rescue, can I download image and run it off bootable usb ?
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14:38<Jeremy__>hello, I have a problem on a server with debian stable up to date: the ksoftirqd/0 after a few days (2-3) runs with 100% of CPU
14:39<Jeremy__>rebooting the server fix that. Do you have an oher way to fix that?
14:40<lindi->Jeremy__: cat /proc/version?
14:41<Jeremy__>Linux version 3.16.0-4-amd64 ( (gcc version 4.8.4 (Debian 4.8.4-1) ) #1 SMP Debian 3.16.36-1+deb8u1 (2016-09-03)
14:41<lindi->Jeremy__: ok. what does "sudo perf top" show?
14:41<Jeremy__>E: linux-tools-3.16 is not installed.
14:42<Jeremy__> /usr/bin/perf: line 24: exec: perf_3.16: not found
14:42<lindi->Jeremy__: better install?
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14:45<Jeremy__>lindi-, how can I show you perf top?
14:46<Jeremy__>and now my cpu is ok, with 25%. In 3 days I'll be 100%
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14:49<Jeremy__>lindi-, I'll come here again when cpu is 100% ;-) thanks
14:50<lindi->Jeremy__: take a screenshot now and again when it reaches 100%
14:50<lindi->Jeremy__: is it a virtual machine?
14:50<Jeremy__>dedicated server
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14:54<Arcade>quick question: I created several bugs on the debian tracking system. I seem to be getting emails on bugs now. Is there a way to stop from getting such email.
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16:23<Burrito>Arcade: since nobody else could answer you, I will have a guess (even though I've never filed a bug report). I think you could unsubscribe from the mailing list following the procedure here: -- Alternatively, many webmail providers have filtering features which can delete messages matching certain criteria.
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16:27<dominik>Debian Security Advisory DSA-3674-1 where ist download ?
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16:49<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... looks like my PSU was actually causing the overheating - it did so fatally this morning.
16:50<ach>did you got the message?
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17:03<MLG>my PSU is overheating
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17:04<Arcade>Burrito, i see where its coming from (
17:05<Burrito>Arcade: so I think you should check the "debian-desktop" button on that page and put the email address you are getting it at in the box at the bottom
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17:06<Arcade>Yeah I can get it from here Burrito you can actually mail the control system to sub and unsub
17:07<Burrito>Arcade: ah, yeah, I just tried to subscribe to a specific bug by emailing #####-subscribe@... , but never got confirmation that I'm subbed
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17:08<Arcade>it works for me after figuring out what was wrong on my end
17:08<Arcade>A. you can't use
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18:15<Gusta>The meeting where the material to initiate studies on the debian free?
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18:25<devil>Gusta: can you rephrase that? what are you looking for?
18:29*Gusta slaps devil around a bit with a large fishbot
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18:59<devil>don't be shy :)
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18:59<Shy>i cant
18:59<Shy>its my first time here
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19:01<devil>if you have a question, just ask
19:01<Shy>about what?
19:02<devil>yes, that is the topic of this channel
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19:03<Shy>i find this app in my os just for curiosity
19:03<Shy>thats why am here
19:03<devil>what app, what os?
19:04<Shy>idk if this is an app
19:04<Shy>parrot sec
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19:04<devil>then you are in the wrong channel
19:05<devil>because this is for debian, not debian based
19:06<vortek>well my 3960x is power enough for oculus rift virtual reality i just need to buy a faster vid card
19:07<vortek>r there any debian based vr programs or drivers?
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19:08<Shy>it doesnt work as debian?
19:09<Shy>anyway im gonna keep exploring this, thanks guys
19:11<devil>Shy: we do not know in what ways it differs from debian, so we cannot support it
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19:18<Shy>thanks devil, dont worry
19:19<devil>just explaining the infrastructure
19:20<devil>parrot might have a channel orf it's own
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19:22<kilobyte22>just quick question regarding pxe: if i have an arbitrary raw disk image containing a debian install, how would i go about booting that over pxe. can't seem to find any information on that. i have an existing pxelinux setup
19:22<Shy>here in hex?
19:23<kilobyte22>i only find information on booting the netinstall image which seems to not actually contain a real root file system (outside of the initramfs)
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19:24<Shy>this group is for advanced people on debian?
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19:25<danielsh>Shy, this is a support channel for users of debian.
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19:33<bremner>what is a tool to burst a djvu document into pages? It seems djvm does the opposite
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19:39<bremner>it seems that djvmcvt can do it, although it's a bit cryptic
19:42<rastacat>Hello... is there anybody who has the time to try to help me fix an issue with KDE crashing after turning on the NVIDIA card? Basically I installed bumblebee and the proprietary Nvidia driver and then used bbswitch to turn on the driver. A couple minutes after this KDE crashed. Then when I rebooted fsck ran and I fixed a bunch of errors and then turned off the machine with the power button out of ignorance. When I booted
19:42<rastacat>again not only did KDE immediately crash, but a bunch of windows popped up for each program I had open before saying that it couldnt write to disk. Some one last night helped me confirm that the disk was read only- probably marked by fsck I think in order to run a mounted hdd. I was able to mark it rw again using devblock though it still says "error-remount ro" in mount. I was having no luck using advice for re-assigning the
19:42<rastacat>disk or fixing using mount/remount types of commands. I couldnt see the disk or run fsck though knoppix live cd. Since I ran into a brick wall taking that route I decided to see if purging all nvidia packages would help. So I purges all nvidia packages including bbswitch and then set in the bios for the computer to only use integrated graphics. Now when I boot, KDE still crashes, but at least I can use all my programs
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19:42<rastacat>again without "read only" errors... any idea where to go from here to get KDE up and running again?
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19:48<rastacat>Also if anybody does read this (thanks a lot!) my end goal now is to have the nvidia (quadro k2000) card in use all the time. it is better and I need it to use my displayport. I can set it to only use this card in the bios so I think all I need is the correct nvidia driver, not bumblebee and all of that since I dont care to use optimus. I didnt realize I didnt want that, at first.
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20:16<hewl>hi, how does one uninstall gnome after installing another desktop environment?
20:17<somiaj>hewl: how did you install gnome?
20:17<somiaj>hewl: note they should live side by side just fine and you shouldn't need to uninstall it if you don't want to.
20:18<hewl>via the debian text-based installer. I accidentally installed gnome (by leaving Debian DE selected... even though GNOME was not)
20:18<hewl>and now I have both KDE and GNOME on one desktop
20:18<hewl>It's perfectly fine but I can't help but feel it's a waste of space and resources running both at the same time
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20:20<rastacat>apt-get remove gnome gnome-utils gnome-core gnome-desktop-data gnome-desktop-environment
20:21<hewl>and that would get rid of gnome and its dependencies, right? How would I make sure I don't delete any dependencies that the KDE is using, such as gstreamer?
20:23<jmcnaught>hewl: when it's not running the only resource consumed by GNOME is storage. apt-get will not remove packages that are dependencies of KDE or other packages still on the system, even if they are recommends or suggests
20:24<jmcnaught>some of the packages listed by rastacat above are not really relevant on a jessie system, and gnome-desktop-environment doesn't exist
20:24<hewl>jmcnaught: thank you, I'm not too familiar with how package removal works on debian yet. Still running -s most of the time
20:24<jmcnaught>hewl: it's not a bad practice
20:24<hewl>I'm just afraid of doing something like uninstalling gtk and then not being able to have any gtk apps run, which is a real big deal considering firefox uses it
20:25<rastacat>oops sorry. maybe I am too new to debian to offer advice.
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20:25<hewl>ok I need to find out exactly what "Debian DE" installs because I'm finding a lot of packages that aren't mentioned in the upstream list for GNOME on Debian
20:25<jmcnaught>hewl: gnome gnome-core task-gnome-desktop are the primary metapackages for GNOME. In my experience lots of GNOME packages are marked manually installed, so you may find yourself removing more packages manually
20:26<somiaj>hewl: if you remove the 'gnome' meta package, it should auto-remove any packages that were part of that, which are no longer needed on your system by other software.
20:26<hewl>this is weird, the package "gnome" is not installed, but packages such as "gnomekeyring" are, even though KDE uses its own keyring package
20:27<somiaj>hewl: if you use apt-get, you will have to run 'apt-get autoremove' after. If you use aptitude, it will take them all in one command.
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20:27<jmcnaught>in my experience most of the GNOME packages are not marked as automatically installed, so removing GNOME can be pretty hands on
20:28<hewl>jmcnaught: I would not know which packages to remove then. I think I'll need to find out which packages the installer installs even if GNOME isn't select as your DE. I don't have any idea where to find that information, however.
20:29<hewl>somiaj: when I dry-run "sudo apt-get remove gnome" I get "0 to remove"
20:29<somiaj>hewl: you'd have to trace the dependcy tree of the gnome or task-gnome package to see what is all installed.
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20:29<somiaj>I'm unsure how the installer does this. I thought tasksel would make everything auto except for the task package. But sometimes this changes as the user installs stuff
20:30<somiaj>one way is just go though the gnome packages and start removing them. Don't worry about libs. If you want there is a program called deborphan that will find libs that you don't need anymore (and other things)
20:30<somiaj>but libs are usually marked auto. Though ymmv
20:32<hewl>somiaj: ok, so I am looking at what the "gnome" package depends on in Apper (I don't know how to do it via terminal) and I'm seeing a lot of packages it depends on already being installed, are those the ones I would go to remove? Stuff like "desktop-base" and "cups-pk-helper"?
20:32<somiaj>hewl: apt-cache depends gnome
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20:33<jmcnaught>hewl: you could see what "aptitude -s remove task-gnome-desktop ~ngnome" does on your system
20:33<somiaj>hewl: lots of these things like desktop-base are just meta packages that are used to pull in packages. It is usually safe to remove the meta package, but always keep an eye on what apt is doing.
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20:33<hewl>dry-running desktop-base mentions all packages required for KDE, so that's a no go
20:34<somiaj>hewl: nevermind. desktop-base is not a meta package. you can see info about the package with apt-cache show pkgname
20:34<hewl>somiaj: thank you, I'm able to view dependencies in terminal and can confirm it's the same as apper
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20:37<hewl>ok honestly, I feel like I'm getting in over my head. I'll just leave it if it isn't actively draining resources from my machine. Thank you two for your advice/help
20:39<llldino>Hey guys, I've got my printer shared over the network, but it's broadcasting it's address as "ipps://tehaw.local:631/printers/DCPL2540DW" tehaw.local doesn't exist and it should be bcasting "ipps://"
20:39<llldino>Where do I change this behavior?
20:39<hewl>for future reference, if I do want to uninstall a package for whatever reason, the procedure would be "sudo apt-get remove <package>" and then "sudo apt-get autoremove"
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20:42<somiaj>hewl: correct, if you use apt-get you will have to autoremove as a second step. Again you should always check what apt wants to do each step.
20:42<hewl>somiaj: yep, just did a dry-run with something more simple (firefox) to see what would happen.
20:45<somiaj>llldino: this should be able to be done via the cups control interface.
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20:51<llldino>somiaj, How so? I''ve checked cupsd.conf, printers.conf, man cupsd.conf, online documentation, I can't find anything
20:51<llldino>somiaj, It seems like it's resolving to tehaw.local at the server level, but idk why
20:52<somiaj>llldino: then it is just fine. you just have that in your /etc/hosts file
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20:52<somiaj>I was expecting thehaw.local was refering to
20:53<llldino>somiaj, But nobody else on the network has that in their hostnames, thus they can't find the printer
20:53<llldino>I don't want it to resolve to tehaw.local
20:55<somiaj>llldino: it doesn't matter. people should be able to put the ipaddress in just fine.
20:56<somiaj>your machine is just using your /etc/hosts file when looking at the number and replacing it with the name (in a reverse dns type lookup)
20:56<somiaj>that is my assumption.
20:57<llldino>somiaj, But they shouldn't have to. When the printer broadcasts its Device URI it shows up as "ipps://tehaw.local:631/printers/DCPL2540DW" on client's computers. But I want it to show up as "ipps://" that way they don't have to mess with the /etc/hosts at all
20:57<llldino>And I should be able to turn that function off via cupsd.conf somehow, and that is what I'm asking
20:58<somiaj>llldino: modify your /etc/hosts file
20:58<llldino>somiaj, Won't that mess with other processes?
20:58<somiaj>I'm unsure how to tell cups to turn off reverse dns lookup
20:59<somiaj>llldino: I don't think that name affects much. I think you can safely remove it if you are not knowlying using the name in other parts of your system.
20:59<somiaj>and in that case, just update the things you have using that name.
21:00<somiaj>(you can always add it back if it cases trouble)
21:00<llldino> somiaj KK, i'll try that
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21:01<hewl>personally I like to copy+paste the same file in the same directory, and just rename the original to "filename.backup"
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21:01<hewl>that can always be recovered later relatively easily
21:01<rastacat>do you think uninstalling and reinstalling kde could fix it crashing at login?
21:01<sney>that would be more likely caused by something in your profile
21:01<sney>and profile-specific kde data is not removed on uninstall
21:02<rastacat>oh ok. So where I might want to start would be looking at this profile data or possibly resetting this data to defaults?
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21:03<sney>the best way to troubleshoot if it's a profile issue is to create a new user and log in with it
21:04<somiaj>rastacat: one thing you can do is create a new user (maybe add the user to some desktop type groups like audio, e.g.) and when you login it will generate a default config
21:04<sney>echo in here
21:04<rastacat>thank you all I will give that a try and see what happens.
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21:06<llldino>somiaj, It's still broadcasting tehaw.local as the Device URI
21:06<somiaj>llldino: even after a restart of the service?
21:06<llldino>I restarted the server even
21:07<somiaj>llldino: and you have no mention of tehaw.local or even in your /etc/hosts file anymore?
21:07<llldino>Just localhost
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21:08<somiaj>llldino: try this, 'grep -r tehaw.local /etc/cups'
21:09<somiaj>try just /etc
21:10<somiaj>maybe there is some domainname or other setting. Though this seems odd to me. I would have expcted it to be the entery in /etc/hosts
21:10<somiaj>could it be the machine you are checking with has the name in memory?
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21:11<somiaj>llldino: I don't know cups enough, how are you checking what name it is broadcasting?
21:11<llldino>somiaj, CUPS has a list of printers it knows in /etc/cups/printers.conf
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21:12<llldino>Grep didn't find anything under /etc
21:13<llldino>But is the hostname if I do $ hostname
21:13<somiaj>I'm unsure where it could be getting the name tehaw.local for besides the hosts file then.
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21:15<llldino>somiaj, Nor do I
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21:16<llldino>Even if it does exist, surley there's a way to stop it from broadcasting a resolved host name
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21:18<somiaj>yea, almost wonder if there is some cache on the network, but unsure where that would be
21:19<llldino>somiaj, I restarted the server remember
21:21<somiaj>hence network not server. But unsure how that works. at this point it is just a wild guess
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21:23<llldino>somiaj, My server is also the router/gateway/dhcp etc..
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21:25<rastacat>you were correct, it's something in my profile because on a new profile its completely fine. also for some reason although I dont think I changed anything when I rebooted I cant open hexchat anymore because it cant open the display so I am typing this from my boyfreinds laptop now... :p
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21:26<rastacat>this all started when I was trying to get the nvidia card set up so I think I should start looking for things related to that in the profile as soon as I use google to figure out how to edit the profile
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21:29<jmcnaught>llldino: is cups configured to use DNSSD? it could be using a hostname from avahi
21:29<llldino>jmcnaught, Yes, I think it is
21:31<jmcnaught>llldino: if you have avahi-discover installed you can browse the zeroconf happenings of your network
21:31<jmcnaught>llldino: sure enough, avahi is calling my computer hostname.local
21:31<llldino>jmcnaught, Can I configure cups to ignore avahi?
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21:32<llldino>Or to braodcast the ip as isntead of tehaw.local
21:32<llldino>Sure enough it is calling my system tehaw.local
21:33<jmcnaught>llldino: i don't know a lot about cups or avahi, but i recognized the .local domain
21:33<llldino>Okay, good call though!
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21:35<jmcnaught>llldino: avahi-daemon.conf(5) says you can define a domain name
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21:38<llldino>I removed avahi-daemon, I thought it was gone months ago
21:38<llldino>Cups still broadcasts tehaw.local, may do another server reboot
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21:42<hewl>Question: if I add an acceptable architecture to dpkg via the command "dpkg --add-architecture <architecture>" does that mean my applications will default to that architecture or will they remain the original?
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21:43<somiaj>hewl: they will remain the original. when you apt-get install package you will get the main arch (not the additional ones added)
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21:43<somiaj>hewl: you ahve to do package:arch to install packages for other arches.
21:44<hewl>somiaj: so all it does is add the ability to install from that architecture? literally nothing else?
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21:45<somiaj>hewl: correct, and you have to apt-get update to get your sources updated with the new arch
21:46<hewl>somiaj: I understand now, thank you very much. I'm going to add the i386 arch to be able to install some 32-bit packages to my 64-bit Debian.
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22:11<hewl>By default, where is the xorg.conf file stored? I can't find any in my home directory at all.
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22:17<jmcnaught>hewl: it's normally in /etc/X11 if it exists at all. without xorg.conf Xorg will automatically configure itself, and this has worked well for most users for years now
22:18<hewl>jmcnaught: oh, so it might just simply not exist yet. If that's the case then does creating it in my home directory overwrite the default settings its grabbing from X11 or where-ever
22:18<hewl>or does it merge the configs?
22:19<hewl>specifically I just want to change "Option "TripleBuffer" "True""
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22:19<jmcnaught>hewl: "man xorg.conf" has information on where the system looks for that file. On Debian you put it in /etc/X11, and you can also put snippets in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/
22:20<hewl>jmcnaught: This is exactly the information I was looking for, the default "man xorg" doesn't mention this at all. Thank you.
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22:23<hewl>ok I am confused again. There's no mention of any xorg.conf files in the ~ directory. How would I make a configuration that applies to just a normal user? Does it involve <hostname> at all?
22:23<jmcnaught>hewl: they don't belong in the home directory
22:24<jmcnaught>things might be different for the root-less xorg in stretch, but on jessie you put xorg.conf in /etc/X11
22:24<hewl>jmcnaught: if that is true then I have misunderstood some documentation along the way
22:25<hewl>jmcnaught: I thought that all configuration related to a specific user is to be stored in their home directory, either in ~/, ~/config or ~/<appname>
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22:26<jmcnaught>hewl: X11 configuration is system-wide
22:28<hewl>jmcnaught: I found a xorg.conf is /etc/X11. According to "man xorg.conf" that means anything I change here will have the highest precendence, thus apply the setting even if it's specified differently elsewhere.
22:28<hewl>This is true?
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22:33<jmcnaught>hewl: i don't think that Debian puts any other xorg.conf files anywhere else
22:34<hewl>jmcnaught: and xorg.conf is automatically generated by nvidia-settings. Does that mean it's viable to being overwritten if this is edited?
22:35<hewl>jmcnaught: actually nevermind about that,
22:35<jmcnaught>hewl: if you run nvidia-settings again it would overwrite it again probably, but it probably also makes a copy of the original
22:36<hewl>I see that there is no TripleBuffering option in xorg.conf inside /etc/X11
22:36<hewl>meaning that if I make another config with lower precendence, it will still apply the TripleBuffering option I write into it.
22:37<hewl>So I can just make a xorg.conf somewhere else, like in /usr/etc/X11/xorg.conf and put just "Option "TripleBuffer" "True"" and it should work.
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22:40<hewl>but what section do I put TripleBuffer under?
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22:41<jmcnaught>hewl: don't make files in /usr/etc
22:42<hewl>jmcnaught: ok, I will not. But why?
22:42<jmcnaught>hewl: use /etc/X11/xorg.conf or snippers in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/
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22:42<jmcnaught>hewl: /usr (except for /usr/local) is only for packages to write to
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22:43<hewl>jmcnaught: Weird that it would be called /usr/ then. But I understand, I will not write to there then.
22:43<hewl>jmcnaught: there is no folder called xorg.conf.d in /etc/X11/. Should I create it?
22:44<jmcnaught>yes, and put files in there with .conf extension
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22:44<hewl>jmcnaught: I need to be root to do this, right?
22:45<jmcnaught>hewl: to edit files in /etc/ you need to be root
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22:46<hewl>jmcnaught: and inside xorg.conf.d, I will make a text file called "xorg.conf"?
22:47<jmcnaught>hewl: or "feature_name.conf"
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22:47<jmcnaught>hewl: the point of .d directories is you can have multiple small files instead of one big one
22:47<jrms>hewl: usr stands for Unix System Resource, not USeR... just saying that it makes sense how it's called... :$
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22:47<hewl>jmcnaught: feature_name? I don't know what that means. Are you implying that either xorg.conf or feature_name.conf would be read?
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22:48<jmcnaught>hewl: for example "triplebuffer.conf", or if you wanted to enable widgets and dingdongs, 'widgets-dingdongs.conf'
22:49<hewl>jmcnaught: ah, so the precise name here doesn't matter; it will be read as long as it's in xorg.conf.d/
22:49<jrms>hewl: and if you need a user side setting for Xorg you could use ~/.xsessionrc?
22:50<jmcnaught>.xsessionrc is a script for starting stuff when X runs
22:50<jrms>sure, but you can use some tools to chenge Xorg settings
22:51<jrms>only for that session, of course
22:51<hewl>I'm not a fan of "multiple ways to do one thing" really. It gets super confusing for me.
22:51<jmcnaught>oh yeah, xrandr, but it's not going to be the same syntax as xorg.conf
22:52<jrms>jmcnaught: right yes, not the same syntax
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22:55<hewl>I still don't know which section "TripleBuffering" would belong in.
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22:59<jrms>hewl: if you can set it using the nvidia-settings tool, I would add that command to .xsessionrc... but well, that's "one way to do it"
22:59<hewl>jrms: the option does not appear in the nvidia-settings tool
23:00<hewl>jrms: I'm fairly certain that a GTX 750 GeForce can support Triple Buffering. It does on my Windows hard-disk.
23:01<jrms>hewl: no idea, sorry...
23:01<hewl>ok, so now I have a text file named "triplebuffering.conf" inside /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/.
23:02<hewl>The file contains Section "Device" Option "TripleBuffering" "True" EndSection, and nothing else
23:02<hewl>so, theoretically, this means when the X server is next booted, I should be getting Triple Buffering.
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23:03<hewl>would I have to identify which driver I am talking about, however?
23:07<hewl>I'm still reading into this. Apparently you can also do this in /etc/profile.d/
23:07<hewl>oh no, no no that's for the desktop environment. This ALSO needs to have triple buffering enabled to have triple buffering enabled.
23:08<jrms>hewl: I guess you could generate an xorg.conf file and modify/use the nvidia driver part... with Xorg -configure
23:09<hewl>jrms: Yes, but does that mean that since it has lower precedence it will NOT have its settings applied?
23:09<jrms>I mean, generate the xorg.conf, and put only the nvidia driver part in the xorg.conf.d dir as jmcnaught said
23:09<hewl>or does precendence not matter if they are settings which simply don't appear in the higher conf file?
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23:11<jrms>afaik, your file should take precedence...
23:12<hewl>jrms: ok, I have done that. Now I really hope it didn't belong in "Screen"
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23:14<jrms>hewl: well afaik again, if it's a setting for the driver, it should go in the Device section for the nvidia driver
23:14<hewl>ok my fps just dropped to 30
23:15<hewl>this is not good
23:15<jrms>I guess... :$
23:15<hewl>maybe it's just because I have many text editors open
23:16<hewl>Yep, it was because of that. I'm back to 60FPS.
23:17<hewl>That is VERY poor performance, nevertheless. I need to look into that.
23:18<hewl>it's not triple buffering...
23:18<hewl>I'll keep trying out things for the moment. Maybe come back later on. Thank you all for your help that you've provided.
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23:20<jzaksh>how do i identify/install firmware for my wifi card? have a laptop "samsung ativ 9 (12 inch)" and lspci says: Qualcom atheros 003e (rev 20).
23:21<jzaksh>googled for "atheros 003e" and such. found stuff in - ever deb in there gives me dpkg errors, "trying to overwrite '/lib/firmware/av7110/bootcode.bin', which is also in package firmware-linux-free 3.3"
23:22<jmcnaught>jzaksh: did you add a ubuntu repo to your debian system?
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23:23<jzaksh>jmcnaught: oh damn. says "ubuntu" in the URL. whoops. no i didn't. (i'm in a debian live usb. just mistakenly used that listing of debs)
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23:24<jmcnaught>jzaksh: listing of debs?
23:24<jzaksh>jmcnaught: i mean i mistakenly was using that URL without thinking. assumed those were generic debian packages. didn't see the "ubuntu" in the URL
23:24<jmcnaught>jzaksh: if you run "lspci -nn" it will show the pci-id for the card, then we can ask judd to look it up with "judd: pciid [abcd:1234]
23:25<jmcnaught>jzaksh: on Debian you will not need to look for .debs in random places on the web. most likely the firmware you need is in a package in non-free
23:25<jzaksh>judd: pciid [168c:003e]
23:25<judd>[168c:003e] is 'QCA6174 802.11ac Wireless Network Adapter' from 'Qualcomm Atheros' with no known kernel module in jessie or in sid. See also
23:25<jmcnaught>well.. hopefully that's wrong
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23:26<jmcnaught>but you have a more detailed model number to search the web with
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23:28<jmcnaught>jzaksh: another thing to check: 'dmesg | grep firmware' which will tell you the filenames for missing firmwares
23:29<jzaksh>jmcnaught: thanks, that's helpful. yeah, hopefully that's wrong.
23:29<jzaksh>jmcnaught: nothing for that grep :/
23:30<jmcnaught>jzaksh: a newer kernel from jessie-backports may also help, but maybe judd isn't lying
23:30<jmcnaught>dpkg: tell jzaksh about bdo
23:30<jmcnaught>dpkg: tell jzaksh about bdo kernel
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23:35<jmcnaught>jzaksh: when you try the newer kernel from backports, you may also want to install firmwares from backports as well. And enable non-free if the firmware you need is in that section
23:37<jzaksh>jmcnaught: thanks - can you point me to what i need to raed about backports? (assuming this is something possible offline - ie: i can do without a network card, if i line my ducks up with a usb stick?)
23:39<jmcnaught>jzaksh: the dpkg bot messaged you with some info, including a link to more info about backports
23:39<jmcnaught>jzaksh: it could be a little trickier offline for sure. can you use ethernet?
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23:42<jzaksh>jmcnaught: no ethernet port, but maybe i could borrow a usb dongle from a friend
23:43<jmcnaught>jzaksh: there's a download link on this page:
23:43<jmcnaught>you can copy the .deb to a usb stick, and use "dpkg -i linux..blah..deb' to install it
23:44<jzaksh>jmcnaught: oh, awesome
23:45<jmcnaught>jzaksh: get this one too:
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23:47<jmcnaught>jzaksh: once you boot into the newer kernel, you'll still want to add jessie-backports, and do "apt-get -t jessie-backports install linux-image-amd64" so that you will get updates on the backported kernel
23:48<jzaksh>jmcnaught: awesome.
23:48*jzaksh saves this irc log...
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---Logclosed Fri Sep 23 00:00:29 2016