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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-08-17

---Logopened Fri Aug 17 00:00:09 2018
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00:04-!-t3chn0 is "Ubi dubium ibi libertas" on #oftc #debian-offtopic #debian-es #debian-devel-es #debian
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08:24<toastie>whew, joining IRC channel is way more complicated in 2018 than it used to be
08:25<jitterstick>haha, I use Bitchx.
08:25<jitterstick>Now that they corrected it.
08:25<toastie>i mean all of the registration and verification process
08:25<Brigo>toastie, that's becuase the spam bots.
08:28<toastie>Brigo: sure, i imagine there is a reason. I just felt a nostalgia for the time when we had just a buch of simple nerds on the internet and it wasnt such problem, simpler times
08:29<Brigo>toastie, yes, i remember that :)
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08:31-!-simula is "simula" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian
08:33<toastie>anyway, i have bit of a debian noobie problem - i think i've broken my debian with dist-upgrade. Is there a way to pull myself by the bootstraps and somehow get back to initial package set without actually putting the cd/usb and reinstalling the system?
08:34<toastie>the symptoms are that xorg refuses to install due to unmet dependencies
08:37<toastie>i've tried to change /etc/apt/sources.list and leave just buster, and later just stretch main repository and apt-get update/dist-upgrade with that, since i've assumed it's how it would somehow sort itself out, but i was wrong
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08:44<blast007>are you mixing stable and testing?
08:46<toastie>i started it as stable wheezy back when i've got my laptop
08:47<toastie>then i've moved to testing since i've needed newer packages
08:47<toastie>i've might do something wrong then, but it was working
08:49<toastie>today i was left with 500 packages refusing to upgrade , so i've tried to perform dist-upgrade
08:50<toastie>it decided to remove some xorg packages, but i thought it's maybe due to changing of package names/structure and that i'll be able to get them back
08:52<toastie>but i was left with xorg that didn't want to install
08:53<toastie>i've tried blindly with the changing apt sources list, since i didn't knew what to do with that really, and i couldn't find anything useful on the internet
08:53<dpkg>#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (, *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on
08:54<jelly>you can't really go back from newer repos to older if anything got installed already
08:55<toastie>come on dude. "how i can rebuild my package tree from scratch once i've messed it up" is not a testing/unstable question
08:56<jelly>neither can you easily get to initial package set, because that varies depending on choices made at install time and the set is not recorded anywhere
08:56<jelly>but it is if you have buster sources
08:58<jelly>you could try asking aptitude to remove... uh, something like "everything but Priority: standard and above"
08:59<jelly>the opposite of
08:59<jelly>!standard task
08:59<dpkg>methinks standard task is a "task" that should be installed on all machines during the installer stage. It installs packages that are important, required and standard (i.e. "aptitude install ~pstandard ~prequired ~pimportant"). Packages in the <essential> set are always installed. Also ask me about <tasksel>.
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09:00<toastie>sounds good - i don't really care about my initial choices - i want to get back to working state and i can re-install the packages manually from that point
09:01<jelly>so uh... aptitude -s remove '~i !(~pstandard | ~prequired | ~pimportant)' ?
09:02<jelly>(-s is "do nothing" option, completely untested of course)
09:02<mnuhmnuh>sorry for the caps lock accident. :-P
09:02<jelly>if they had a backup it'd be easier to restore the system from said backup
09:03<jelly>I asssumed they did not have that option
09:03<jelly>it's probably easier to backup data, reinstall and put data back
09:03<toastie>mnuhmnuh: because if i had to start over i would probably put Gentoo here :P
09:04<toastie>i just wanted to check if maybe is there a "reset" button somewhere in debian
09:04<mnuhmnuh>jelly: that's what i meant, yes.
09:06<toastie>ok, thank you guys for your help
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09:12<toastie>oh. one last question - do i have to repair my repository tree somehow after hopping between testing and stable, or is it always what's in /etc/apt/sources.list' as long as i 'apt-get update'?
09:16<mnuhmnuh>toastie: don't mix haphazardly. you can upgrade stable to testing (then sid), but going back is not possible/supported.
09:16<mnuhmnuh>toastie: you can use indiv. pkgs between them often, but no, you can't roll back and forth.
09:19<mnuhmnuh>toastie: the pkg system can build from source pkgs, and /usr/local is your friend, ignored by the pkg system, yours to play with.
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09:21<toastie>yeah, i just wanted to know if the package database is built from what is currently in etc config file (+actually installed packages) or it's somehow incrementally built with each apt update and i need to somehow "reset" it to get rid of from old entries
09:26<toastie>maybe i'm overthinking it
09:33<mnuhmnuh>toastie: current resulting system is /var/log/apt/history.log - can be ugly reading, but accurate.
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09:35<toastie>i mean the database apt uses to calculate dependencies for installed packages
09:35<mnuhmnuh>toastie: best system is to have two or more installs, either separate machines or vm's; one for work, one for experimenting.
09:36<aigarius>toastie: what is available for apt to upgrade is build from scratch every tome you do "apt update", but what is actually installed on your system is result of increments from previous states
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09:38<mnuhmnuh>toastie: there's lots of ways to query the pkg db. apt search, apt show, apt-file search, aptitude ..., & etc.
09:38<toastie>aigarius: thanks, that's exactly what i've looked for
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09:41<toastie>and i've located my problem from one of the previous hints - i was actually on sid, not whatever-testing-version-was-before-buster
09:41<toastie>so once i've set all sources to sid it finished upgrading properly
09:41<mnuhmnuh>which is now stable
09:42<toastie>or at least to the point i can reboot ;)
09:43<toastie>thank you guys for all of the information
09:43<toastie>now i know a bit more about the back-end
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10:15<znoteer>intel microcode got updated yesterday. apt upgrade hangs at updating initramfs during the microcode upgrade. I've tried twice. Web searching doesn't turn up much. Anyone know what's going on?
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10:16<mnuhmnuh>znoteer: can you run update-initramfs?
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10:16<znoteer>let me try
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10:17<znoteer>mnuhmnuh: with the -u flag, right?
10:18<mnuhmnuh>uhh, hmmm ... accessing ...
10:19<mnuhmnuh>looks like it, yes.
10:21<znoteer>mnuhmnuh: well, I can run it yes, but now I have to wait to see if it's going to finish
10:22<mnuhmnuh>znoteer: it should be fairly quick. fwiw, i have no microcode pkgs installed here (10 y. old xeon), ymmv.
10:24<znoteer>mnuhmnuh: if it's fairly quick, then I'd say it's hung
10:26<mnuhmnuh>that would suck. it only takes < a min. here.
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10:27<znoteer>mnuhmnuh: it's been 5 minutes. Do you know if there is anything I can do to fix this?
10:28<mnuhmnuh>if you can boot into an older kernel (i have 4.9, plus 4.16 from bpo here), that'd let you research the prob.
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10:29<znoteer>how would I go about researching this?
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10:30<mnuhmnuh>irc's a good start. :-) can help. plug $blah into a web search engine, ...
10:31<Brigo>znoteer, update-initramfs -v will give you more infor
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10:32<mnuhmnuh>and thewre's #debian on freenode too; perhaps higher trsaffic level there.
10:32*mnuhmnuh i cannot type anymore.
10:34<znoteer>Brigo: that -v flag is interesting. it's currently sitting at "Building cpio /boot/ initramfs"
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10:35<Brigo>znoteer, any disk usage?
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10:36<znoteer>what do you mean? Like with du?
10:36<Brigo>i am wondering if it is writing or just doing nothing
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10:36<Brigo>cpio is a packager like tar, so it is writing to the disk or threre is a problem
10:37<eirc>just wanna share my experience: I was running sid and tried downgrading to stable. that broke everything. I managed to grab a terminal and went to testing. 200 packages later everything worked great :)
10:37<znoteer>Brigo: there doesn't appear to be any disk activity
10:38<Brigo>eirc, thne it's stuck, the question is why :-m
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10:38<znoteer>I think you meant to highlight me :)
10:38<mnuhmnuh>eirc: downgrading is not supported. sid and testing *may* be close at times, but you got lucky if it worked.
10:39<eirc>I had a long standing issue with various 3rd parties not properly depending on libcurl4
10:39<Brigo>znoteer, yes, sorry, eirc .
10:40<Brigo>znoteer, i just run update-initramfs -u -v in my system that cpio command is the last one.
10:40<mnuhmnuh>znoteer: you're not out of disk space, yes?
10:41<znoteer>mnuhmnuh: no, disk space is fine
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10:45<znoteer>I just tried looking at the update-initramfs script. It's beyond my skill level, unfortunately
10:46<mnuhmnuh>znoteer: i've never seen it fail, and stable's tested to death. you are running stretch, correct?
10:46<znoteer>yes, stretch
10:48<mnuhmnuh>znoteer: how much of a pain would it be to backup & re-install?
10:48<mnuhmnuh>it can be a pain, but starting over gives you clean slate.
10:49<znoteer>at the moment, huge, because I back up to a usb hd, and I've been having trouble with it as of yesterday. I Haven't figured out if it's my drive of the usb subsystem in my laptop
10:49<znoteer>so, I can't really backup at the moment
10:50<znoteer>could failing hardware cause update-initramfs to hang?
10:50<znoteer>or cpio more precisely
10:51<mnuhmnuh>oh yeah.
10:52<mnuhmnuh>failing hardware means you can't trust anything; hardware, software, firmware, ...
10:53<Brigo>znoteer, update-initramfs is just calling mkinitramfs
10:53<mnuhmnuh>they'll all be lying through their teeth. yeah, it worked, no, it didn't, maybe it worked?
10:54<Brigo>znoteer, try this: mkinitramfs -o ~/tmp/initramfs-$(uname -r)
10:54<mnuhmnuh>sort out the hardware first.
10:54<Brigo>even better, mkinitramfs -v -o ~/tmp/initramfs-$(uname -r) (-v for verbose mode)
11:02<abacate>Hello arto
11:03<znoteer>Brigo: that command completed. But then there is what mnuhmnuh said about not trusting possibly failing hardware. So I don't know what to think
11:04<Brigo>smartctl should help with that.
11:05<abacate>arto, are you available to help me with the wifi usb dongle we were trying to make work yesterday?
11:05<znoteer>assuming that it did complete successfully, can I copy the file that was created in tmp over my existing initramfs file?
11:08<Brigo>znoteer, i don't think so.
11:08<Brigo>not really sure.
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11:09<znoteer>I don't suppose you're able to say why update-initramfs hung whereas mkinitramfs didn't
11:09<Brigo>znoteer, it shouldn't.
11:09<arto>abacate: yes, here I am
11:09<Brigo>as i said update-initramfs is just calling mkinitramfs
11:10<Brigo>znoteer, maybe you can use just that file, or run update-initramfs with some other option like -c (create a new initramfs)
11:11<abacate>OK arto . The machine I'm using now is Debian 8.11 (jessie), with MATE desktop environment 1.8.1. It does not appears to have network gui. What to do?
11:11<abacate>Should I install something to check network?
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11:12<arto>abacate: gui is not needed
11:12<znoteer>I was thinking of rerunning mkinitramfs without the -o flag and just letting it overwrite my existing initramfs file (after backing up of course)
11:12<arto>abacate: strethc has newer kernel, so it would be better choice, but we can try
11:13<abacate>arto, do you believe that using a virtual machine for testing first would be a good idea?
11:13<arto>abacate: open terminal, then: lsusb, connect dongle, again lsusb, do get the id number?
11:14<arto>abacate: virtual is another step of complexite, I'd rather do without
11:14<abacate>arto, Bus 001 Device 003: ID 2357:0109
11:14<abacate>arto, Debian Stretch (9) is on the machine I messed up.
11:15<arto>abacante: I understand, lets try with jessie
11:16<abacate>Jessie James
11:16<arto>abacate: check /var/log/messages, anything about dongle
11:18<arto>abacat: tail /var/log/messages
11:18<arto>abacate: ^^
11:19<arto>abacate: looks good
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11:21<arto>abacate: do you net connection (other than dongle) on that machine
11:21<abacate>arto, I have an ethernet connection
11:21<arto>abacate: fine
11:21<abacate>I'm using it for IRC
11:22<arto>abacate: I know wpa_supplicant best, so if it is comfortable for you, install it
11:23<arto>abacate: try first: ip a
11:23<arto>abacate: is it showing there
11:23<abacate>arto, installed. "ip a" does not shows the dongle. Just "lo" and "eth0".
11:24<arto>abacate: yes, it's not worrying, dongle is not configured yet
11:24<mnuhmnuh>abacate: firmware-realtek installed?
11:25<abacate>mnuhmnuh, "impossible to locate". I believe it's because "non-free" is not swithed on.
11:25<arto>abacate: it's on strecth, can't check jessie
11:26<arto>abacate: try non-free, as you figured
11:27<arto>abacate: it is for jessie too, might be problem though, your dongle might be newer
11:28<abacate>arto, package found. I believe it's not installed.
11:28<arto>abacate: yes, install it
11:28<abacate>arto, the box of my dongle says 2015. I believe it's not too new. There's a version 3 of it, and mine is version 2.
11:29<abacate>There is a sticker of 2016 on the box also.
11:29<arto>abacate: ok, let's try jessied firmware-realtek
11:29<mnuhmnuh>abacate: worth a try, likely can't hurt.
11:30<abacate>arto, installed firmware-realtek
11:30<arto>abacate: unplud dongle, then plug in
11:31<arto>abacate: then agein 'ip a'
11:31<mnuhmnuh>and tail messages again.
11:32<abacate>arto, "ip a" does not show the dongle
11:33<abacate>But lsusb neither
11:33<arto>abacate: that's a bit weird
11:34<abacate>mnuhmnuh, tail /var/log/messages shows basically the same.
11:34<arto>abacate: do you have wpa_supplicant installed?
11:34<abacate>yes arto
11:36<arto>abacate: and their is wifi which you can connect?
11:36<abacate>yes arto
11:36<arto>abacate: do a minimal /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
11:37<arto>abacate: between { ssid="SSID" } what is wifi's SSID
11:38<abacate>Wait arto , I prefer first to show the /var/log/messages as mnuhmnuh requested
11:38<arto>abacate: blah: again network { ssid="SSID}
11:39<arto>abacate: ok, but you already told it is the same
11:39<abacate>It's not the same, it's basically the same
11:39<abacate>The "attempt power cycle" is new
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11:40<abacate>arto, created /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
11:41<arto>abacate: as root: wpa_supplicant -c/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf -i???
11:41<abacate>arto, I don't know what to write on -i, because the device does not show up on "ip a"
11:42<arto>abacate: yes, I just noticed, that might be a problem
11:42<abacate>arto, should I restart the machine?
11:42<arto>abacate: try
11:43<arto>abacate: leave dongle connected
11:44<abacate>arto, I connected the dongle on a USB 3.0 port (another bus), and it showed up on lsusb. But not on "ip a"
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11:44<arto>abacate: you already rebooted?
11:44<abacate>Just a second
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11:46<mnuhmnuh>jessie is oldstable, possibly LTS, correct?
11:47<dpkg>Jessie is the codename for the current <oldstable> release, Debian 8, released on 2015-04-25: ; security support ends 2018-05-17 but ask me about <jessie-lts>. Jessie is the cowgirl in Toy Story 2. See and ask me about <install jessie> <release notes> <wheezy->jessie>. Currently <8.10>.
11:47<cc>I can't be t he only one who lost track of the stupid names
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11:48<mnuhmnuh>cc: i can't even remember which one i started with. too long ago.
11:48<abacate>arto, when booting, it was shown on the screen "cannot enable - maybe cable is bad?"
11:48<cc>wouldn't it be much better to say 8 is oldstable, 9 is current stable, 10 is upcoming
11:49<arto>abacate: enable what?
11:49<abacate>arto, usb device
11:49<cc>the buster stretch jessie wheezy nonsense is just confusing especially since these names have no mnemonic in them
11:49<mnuhmnuh>cc: yabut, everyone futzes with ver. numbers too. 1, 2, 3, 7, ...
11:50<cc>at least the ubuntu nonsense is alphabetically sorted
11:50<arto>abacate: once agein: ip a
11:50<abacate>arto, the dongle does not show up
11:50<cc>mnuhmnuh, numbers have order
11:50<cc>you can clearly tell which is newer, 3 or 8
11:50<cc>now, which one is newer: wheezy or buster? good luck guessing
11:51<mnuhmnuh>cc: 1.0, 1.01, wut?
11:51<arto>abacate: gets interesting...
11:51<cc>mnuhmnuh, 1.01 is obviously newer than 1.0 :/
11:51<arto>cc: it's all explained on
11:51<coruja>cc, feel free to refer to debian releases by numbers yourself
11:52<cc>mnuhmnuh, also semver exists
11:52<abacate>arto, may I disconnect and connect again?
11:54<arto>abacate: aptitude show firmware-realtek
11:54<coruja>cc, and be glad that point releases don't get codenames each ;)
11:54<abacate>arto, "APT-Manual-Installed: yes"
11:55<cc>coruja, lol
11:55<abacate>arto, it does not says it has support for my dongle model, though
11:55<arto>abacate: it shows what drivers it includes
11:55<abacate>arto, it shows it's contents
11:56<abacate>It supports "rtl8192ce, rtl8192cu, rtl8192de, rtl8192se", but not "rtl8192eu"
11:56<arto>abacate: longer in stretch
11:56<abacate>Longer? What longer?
11:56<abacate>Do you want a paste?
11:58<arto>abacate: no need, just said the list in stretch is longer
11:58<abacate>arto, here it is:
11:58<abacate>I quoted only the "8192" models, there are more on the list.
11:59<mnuhmnuh>in stretch, i see RTl8192EU firmware (rtlwifi/rtl8192eu_nic.bin)
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12:00<abacate>Thanks mnuhmnuh
12:02<abacate>arto, I plan on getting a spare HDD and installing Debian Strecth (9) on it for testing. OK?
12:02<arto>abacate: you could upgrade to stretchj, but that takes some time
12:03<abacate>arto, I prefer not upgrading this specific machine. I will leave it here when moving next week, and my parents need a stable environment.
12:03<mnuhmnuh>abacate: maybe playing w live might be worth a try?
12:04<arto>abacate: strethc is stable
12:04<dpkg>Jessie is the codename for the current <oldstable> release, Debian 8, released on 2015-04-25: ; security support ends 2018-05-17 but ask me about <jessie-lts>. Jessie is the cowgirl in Toy Story 2. See and ask me about <install jessie> <release notes> <wheezy->jessie>. Currently <8.10>.
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12:05<dpkg>Security support for Debian 8 "Jessie" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2018-05-17. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures will receive additional long term support (<LTS>) via <jessie/updates> until around 2020 for a 5 year lifetime total. See for more information
12:05<arto>good addition
12:07<abacate>thanks mnuhmnuh and arto
12:07<arto>abacate: the problem is that the driver you need seems to be in stretch but not in jessie
12:08<abacate>I thought LTS was more stable than other versions
12:08<arto>abacate: every stable Debian is stable
12:09<arto>abacate: meaning it has gone through testing, and most erros corrected
12:10<abacate>arto, I have fear of upgrading. Previously, when I used Ubuntu, I tried to upgrade and the system was messed. I needed to reinstall.
12:10<mnuhmnuh>some are afraid to upgrade wheezy for fear of breakage, others need bleeding edge for new hardware. pity the devs.
12:10<arto>abacate: Debian is NOT Ubuntu
12:10<abacate>Wouldn't be better to create a new partition and install Debian 9 on it?
12:11<arto>abacate: I have never had any problems upgrading from stable to next
12:11<dpkg>Stretch is the codename for the current <stable> release, Debian 9, released 2017-06-17. "Stretch" is the rubber octopus in Toy Story 3, see . Ask me about <install stretch>, <release notes>, <jessie->stretch>.
12:11<arto>abacate: if you wish to get dongle working, you somehow need Debian 9, stretch
12:12<mnuhmnuh>and doesn't ubuntu recommend re-install over upgrade?
12:13<abacate>mnuhmnuh, I don't know, I don't use it anymore anyways
12:13<abacate>OK arto , I will backup my system and do the upgrade... Later. Now I need to go to an NGO to do some things. I will be back on 1 or 2 hours. OK?
12:15<abacate>Thanks for your help, and for mnuhmnuh help too.
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12:15<mnuhmnuh>i learn by trying to help. :-)
12:16<arto>mnuhmnuh: here it is a saying: best teacher is whey you ty to teach some one else
12:16<arto>my fingers are rusty today
12:16<mnuhmnuh>aye! you don't really know it if you can't explain it.
12:17<dpkg>i guess 8 is not a substitute for "ait" or "ate" or any other combination of letters.
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12:17<mnuhmnuh><crickets ...>
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12:47<mnuhmnuh>i notice the link to the daily dump isn't answering atm.
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13:56<abacate>Hello arto . I'm back, and I'll do the backup now.
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14:01<dpkg>Upgrades keep your box from getting r00ted and reboots let you run new kernels. Stop obsessing about uptime already. It's not 1996. Refresh the lists of available packages "apt update", and then an "apt upgrade". Ask me about <security>. If you upgrade to a new stable version of Debian, read its release notes first. Ask me about <jessie->stretch>.
14:01<abacate>This message is not working..
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14:14<dvs>!release notes
14:14<dpkg>The release notes for Debian 9 "Stretch" are at . See also <jessie->stretch>, <stretch install guide>
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14:34<annadane>abacate, ^
14:35<annadane>really, that factoid shouldn't just link to amd64
14:37<annadane>dpkg, no, release notes is <reply> The release notes for Debian 9 "Stretch" are at . See also <jessie->stretch>, <stretch install guide>
14:37<dpkg>okay, annadane
14:37<annadane>so that's probably wrong also
14:37<annadane>oh no, it does exist
14:39<mnuhmnuh>!dselect jessie->stretch
14:39<annadane>i hope i didn't make things *more* confusing and feel free to change it but amd64 while the most common is not assured to be used by everyone
14:40<mnuhmnuh>that worked for me (/msg dselect ...).
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14:44<annadane>anyway, you can /msg the bot
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14:58<abacate>arto, backup done, now I will upgrade Debian 8 to Debian 9.
15:01<abacate>I backuped only /home/ and will follow
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15:35<Bailey>Is anyone here?
15:36<Bailey>I was wondering if someone could help me with a problem
15:37<annadane>Bailey, just ask
15:37<Bailey>I installed Debian on an old computer with the minimum requirements, its only running the command line which is what I wanted but I want to connect to the internet and add other packages but there is so little installed its like I cant do it
15:38-!-mode/#debian [+l 350] by debhelper
15:38<annadane>(but brb in a while, someone else can help)
15:38<Bailey>So can I use the CDrom i installed Debian with the install packages from the commandline?
15:39<sarnold>yes, look at apt-cdrom
15:40<mnuhmnuh>Bailey: simplest way would be edit /etc/network/interfaces, 'specially since you've only command line. what's "ip a" say?
15:41<Bailey>Well Im currently not near my debian set up heh
15:41<sarnold>most networks are faster than most cd-rom drives though, and at least some packages have been updated since the cd was published..
15:41<Bailey>A lot of the commands don't seem to work though, like wpadmin
15:42<Bailey>They work when Im root, well some of them. Other wise says bash command not recognized or something
15:42<Bailey>I burned the cd myself from the iso
15:42<Brigo>Bailey, ethernet connection or wireless?
15:43<mnuhmnuh>Bailey: i only use ethernet, via interfaces. here's my interfaces:
15:44<Bailey>I want to be able to use Linux completely without gui
15:45<Brigo>Bailey, the problem with the wireless connection use to be the firmware, do you wifi adapter needs a firmware?
15:45<mnuhmnuh>Bailey: if commands fail, you may need root privs. use "sudo $command"
15:46<Bailey>Yeah sudo is one of the commanda
15:46<Bailey>Commands that doesnt work
15:46<mnuhmnuh>Bailey: install sudo from your cd.
15:46<Brigo>Bailey, or do things as root
15:46<Brigo>Bailey, are you up for a reinstalling?
15:46<Bailey>i previously had ubuntu installed on the system
15:47<Bailey>Yeah I could do a reinstall
15:48<Brigo>Bailey, reinstalling with a installer with firmware will configure the wifi for you.
15:48<Brigo>you can get them from
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15:49<Brigo>the other way around is to indentify the firmware you need, the package that ships it and download it in other computer and copy it to this one.
15:50<Brigo>i think installing a base system is way easier.
15:53<Bailey>How do I findout my IP address and the info needed to do the reinstall
15:54<Bailey>For some reason it wouldnt recognize the SSID of my wifi the first time I tried
15:55<mnuhmnuh>Bailey: it's also a lot simpler to get the iso then "cp blah.iso /dev/$your_usb_key" where the latter is like sdh or something. /varlog/messages will say what it is when you plug it in.
15:55<mnuhmnuh>boot with that and re-install.
15:56<mnuhmnuh>sorry, /var/log/messages
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16:01<mnuhmnuh>Bailey: ip a
16:04<mnuhmnuh>Bailey: there's a commented out example wifi stanza in that interfaces link i posted.
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17:53<abacate>arto, system got messed when upgrading from Debian 8 to Debian 9, exactly as I feared...
17:56<abacate>I can login, and Tor Browser opens automatically, as I have set up, but nothing more shows up
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17:58<abacate>I'll try Ctrl + Alt + F2 to repair it
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18:24<abacate>arto, fixed! This makes me very happy, I see I'm learning something new
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18:40<abacate>When upgrading Debian 8 to Debian 9, may I do "apt-get autoremove" between the "apt-get upgrade" and the "apt-get dist-upgrade"?
18:43<abacate>I suppose yes, done.
18:43<annadane>i'd say "no", but then why ask a question and then do something anyway
18:44<annadane>"i'm sure it's fine", anyway
18:44<annadane>depends what got removed
18:44<annadane>has potential to be catastrophic
18:44<annadane>also, it's not in the release notes
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18:48<annadane>let's start with this. what specifically did you remove.
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18:56<abacate>annadane, dunno
18:57<abacate>I know the system was telling there was insufficient space, so I needed to clear up for downloading more packages
18:57<annadane>well, that's more defensible thing
18:57<annadane>though a better idea would be to clear things like the cache
18:57<annadane>well, go until it breaks, i guess
18:58<abacate>By using "apt-get clean"?
18:58<annadane>i think so
18:59<annadane>but i don't want to give bad advice here
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19:07<abacate>I tried that first
19:07<mnuhmnuh>i'm familiar with apt autoremove, but didn't know there was an apt-get version too.
19:08<abacate>mnuhmnuh, I'm not familiar with the difference between apt and apt-get
19:08<abacate>I thought apt superseeded apt-get
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19:09<mnuhmnuh>they're all wrappers around the lower level dpkg.
19:09<annadane>apt and apt-get are functionally identical for 99% of things
19:09<annadane>you should use apt-get in scripts
19:09<annadane>beyond that, basically interchangeable
19:09<annadane>and actually even that may not be entirely accurate
19:10<sarnold>apt upgrade will install new packages to satisfy dependencies if needed; apt-get upgrade will not
19:11<annadane>i actually didn't know that
19:12<sarnold>it's a very happy medium ground -- apt-get dist-upgrade will happily uninstall Important Packages if it thinks that's the best way to upgrade something else..
19:13<annadane>anyway, this is all... wait for it... in the release notes!
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19:38<abacate>Upgrade finished
19:38<abacate>Seems to be working fine
19:42<abacate>mnuhmnuh, I plugged my usb wifi dongle and it was recognized on "ip a"
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20:04<mnuhmnuh>abacate: very good to hear it. you're on stretch now?
20:05<abacate>Yes mnuhmnuh
20:06<abacate>mnuhmnuh, the command "wpa_supplicant -c/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf -iwlxd46e0ec9a0a2" just says "Successfully initialized wpa_supplicant"
20:06<mnuhmnuh>excellent. keep it up to date regularly, though on stable that's less of a priority than on the quickly changing testing and sid.
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20:08<mnuhmnuh>yet another good reason for everyone to get over their fear of leaving wheezy and jessie. current stable's better supported.
20:10<mnuhmnuh>and a lot easier for us to help out!
20:11<abacate>OK mnuhmnuh
20:11<abacate>But, do you know how to make the wifi dongle work? Or should I wait for arto tomorrow?
20:12<mnuhmnuh>you need firmware-realtek from non-free, yes? installing that ought to do it.
20:13<abacate>mnuhmnuh, I already have it!
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20:15<mnuhmnuh>i'm no wifi wizard myself, in fact i avoid it, and am glad i don't need it. so, if you have network manager's nm-applet, that should easily get it going for you.
20:17<mnuhmnuh>or, edit /etc/network/interfaces. see commented out wifi stanza in
20:29<abacate>mnuhmnuh, I installed network-manager and network-manager-gnome, but could not add the system tray
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20:31<mnuhmnuh>i'm using mate these days and don't much grok gnome, so others would be better help.
20:32<abacate>mnuhmnuh, I'm using mate too
20:32<abacate>MATE Desktop Environment 1.16.2
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20:33<mnuhmnuh>when i used nm-applet, it just appeared in the top panel bar.
20:34<mnuhmnuh>maybe "nm-applet &" in a terminal command line is all you need to do?
20:36<abacate>mnuhmnuh, it showed up
20:38<mnuhmnuh>note that mate-desktop-environment 1.20.0+5~bpo9+1 is available from backports. you won't see many diffs between the two, but there were quite a few interesting changes under the hood.
20:39<mnuhmnuh>add "deb stretch-backports main contrib non-free" to your sources.list if you want such.
20:40<abacate>But spins, spins, and does not connect to wireless networks
20:41<mnuhmnuh>keep bagin' your head on it til it falls over.
20:41<mnuhmnuh>connects can be slow.
20:42<abacate>mnuhmnuh, it stops spinning after some time and shows "not connected"
20:42<mnuhmnuh>i assume you've enabled wifi in your router ...
20:42<abacate>mnuhmnuh, enabled, its listed on the computer
20:42<abacate>So it is enabled and was detected
20:43<coruja>rebooted after installing network-manager?
20:43<abacate>coruja, nope
20:44<mnuhmnuh>check the logs. /var/log/messages, journalctl; what else, dunno. wifi ignorant here.
20:44<coruja>afaict it's often needed as network-manager needs to take control of network hardware and settings
20:45<mnuhmnuh>make sure it's not mentioned in your interfaces file. nm will ignore any ifaces handled in interfaces.
20:47<abacate>OK coruja , rebooting
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20:55<abacate>mnuhmnuh, checked the logs on /var/log/messages
20:58<abacate>Here it is:
20:58<mnuhmnuh>fiddled with nm-applet again yet?
21:00<abacate>mnuhmnuh, yes
21:00<abacate>then checked the log
21:00<mnuhmnuh>config -> failed (reason 'ssid-not-found') ?!?
21:01<abacate>Authentication is expiring
21:01<abacate>I don't know why it calls the connection "Testando 123 1" if the name is really just "Testando 123"
21:02<abacate>I tried to add it manually and it was called "Testando 123 2", so I suppose it doesn't matters
21:03<mnuhmnuh>you're likely 99% there. just a nit or two missing?
21:04<abacate>Network Investigative Technique, a form of malware (or hacking) employed by the FBI
21:04<abacate>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
21:05<abacate>mnuhmnuh, it's the same situation I was before, but now I have more info
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21:12<mnuhmnuh>didn't know about that kind of nit. imeant it as in picking nits off clothing, as in bits of fluff. :-)
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21:13<jitterstick>is anyone here able to point me in the direction of a process to flash Debian to my galaxy tab s 10.5 SM-T800?
21:13<abacate>mnuhmnuh, I messed something here
21:14<abacate>the device isn't being listed anymore, after "depmod -a" or unplugging and plugging it again
21:15<abacate>Aug 17 22:15:36 Zebra kernel: [ 280.300812] usb 3-3: Failed to initialize RF
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21:16<mnuhmnuh>rasa frackin jiggafriggin ... kroshnit! :-P
21:17<mnuhmnuh>ip a still show it?
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21:18<abacate>OK, wifi enabled again
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21:20<mnuhmnuh>bon chance. i'm at the limit of my wifi knowledge.
21:23<mnuhmnuh>journalctl -b 0 (latest reboot) is systemd way to see system logging.
21:23<mnuhmnuh>as root.
21:25<abacate>I think looking at /var/log/messages is fine, it works
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21:37<ais-admin>speaking of network cards - I always get "failed to load firmware" messages at boot but my lan card works just fine. Am I missing anything not loading the firmware?
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21:40<mnuhmnuh>ais-admin: i get that too, for a tv card installed here that i've no intention of enabling. you may have a device you haven't bothered with, and kernel's reminding you it's there.
21:41<ais-admin>the error specifically names the realtek ethernet addapter - work just fine anyway though - I figured it was loading generic stuff
21:41<mnuhmnuh>ais-admin: could be too that non-free blob could tweak better performance/functionality from lan card?
21:42<abacate>I need to sleep
21:42<abacate>Tired of this dongle thing
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21:42<mnuhmnuh>good progress. sleep well.
21:42<ais-admin>maybe - could break it too with unwanted features like powersaving/sleep that never wakes back up etc.
21:43<mnuhmnuh>if it isn't broken, ...
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---Logclosed Sat Aug 18 00:00:11 2018