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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-01-30

---Logopened Wed Jan 30 00:00:42 2019
00:04<xxzz>i have a strange issue, enabled apparmor and now several programs aren't able to read the contents in /etc
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00:05<xxzz>first it was man but fixing that was easy with aa-complain but there are other programs without usr.bin.<program>
00:06<xxzz>the documentation suggests using aa-enforce but that isn't working on clamav-daemon and man
00:06<xxzz>aa-complain over populates log
00:07<xxzz>can't access Internet without tor and with dnscrypt-proxy running
00:07<xxzz>dnscrypt-proxy can't access .md files
00:08<xxzz>wanted to create a forum post but they are blocking tor ips
00:08<xxzz>shit out of luck and jolly well fucked
00:14<ach>idu for a mailserver correct me if i am wrong is every tor ip blocked?
00:15<ach>cause the mailprovider have a firewall?
00:15<xxzz>not necessarily
00:16<ach>in germany it is
00:16<xxzz>I am not blaming them for banning tor, it is just that i can't access resources
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00:16<xxzz>what's the point in obstructing communication
00:17<ach>well i don't even get out why and how it is ever possible no homepage knows my location?
00:17<xxzz>it infringes upon freedom of expression and association
00:19<xxzz>anyway booze time for me
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00:25<sqrt{not}>looking through cyberoptiq's dmesg pastebin, it fails to load the iwlwifi blob a few times at time 17 seconds, but succeeds much later at time 5489, and at time 5495 the wireless link comes up
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03:04<liveoverflow>hello, anyone there?
03:04<liveoverflow>Am I in?
03:04<dpkg>hello, ach
03:05<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, rotfl is Rolling On The Floor Laughing, something you're rather unlikely to be able to type in while you do it
03:09<liveoverflow>Unless you premeditated the ROFL.
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03:10<dpkg>afk is, like, Away From Keyboard
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05:38<marcurling>Hello, was is the password to unlock screen under Debian 9 Lice CD, please?
05:38<marcurling>*what is
05:39<marcurling>*Live CD
05:41<rant>i don't recall offhand, and can look further into it but try leaving it blank, live, debian, etc
05:42<jm_>isn't there a manual for live?
05:42<rant>google seems to suggest live is the default password
05:43<rant>the website for the manual is not loading..yet..
05:44<jm_>yeah same here :)
05:44<rant>if someone else wants to check
05:44<rant>dpkg, live manual is <reply> the Debian Live manual is available at
05:44<dpkg>okay, rant
05:44<marcurling>live is the correct passwd, thanks
05:45<jm_>maybe replace that with apt install live-manual-pdf if the URL does not work
05:46<rant>dpkg live manual ~= s/htm/html and is also available in the debian-live-pdf package.
05:46<dpkg>rant: what are you talking about?
05:46<rant>dpkg live manual =~ s/htm/html and is also available in the debian-live-pdf package./
05:46<dpkg>rant: OK
05:47<jm_>yeah the pdf says it's user/live
05:47<rant>erm wait..
05:48<rant>dpkg, no, live manual is <reply> the Debian Live manual is available at and is also available in the debian-live-pdf package.
05:48<dpkg>okay, rant
05:49<rant>I dont multi task well currently.. stress.. heh.. that search and replace was ambiguous and matched the wrong thing :P
05:50<rant>I tend to do these sorts of things publically so others know they're being done for future ref. I apologize for the spam :P
05:53<rant>fwiw the <live password> factoid already exists and I modified it to remove mention of Debian 8 "Jessie" since its still the same in Stretch
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05:54<JWK>Hi all, I can't access (Network unreachable), is there any known problem with taht?
05:56<bremner>yes, maintence
05:56<rant>no, it would appear some debian sites are currently having issues that is also for me
05:56<bremner>it should be fixed soon
05:56<rant>I wouldnt think being that the live manual is on a * url that is also on salsa
05:57<rant>but seems a strange coincidence :P
05:58<JWK>hah! just to plan my next steps: could you specify a tentative timeframe for that "soon"? I'd like to figure out if it's a matter of minutes, hours or days :-)
06:00<JWK>nevermind, it's back up :-)
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07:24<marcurling>Yo, what is the equivalent of 'ifconfig -a' in Debian (or is it just missing in the Live 9)?
07:24<xxzz>ip a
07:24*marcurling thanks xxzz
07:25<xxzz>for ifconfig you need net-tools
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07:27<EmleyMoor>My laptop suspends if power to its power input is removed - regardless of the state of the battery. Why would that happen and how can I stop it if the battery has power?
07:28<rant>EmleyMoor: you need more context than that.. relevant info could inlclude the model, if you use X, a Desktop Environment..etc.
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07:29<petn-randall>EmleyMoor: I'm guessing the battery is reporting a very low battery level, or that value is interpreted wrong. First thing I'd check is the battery settings and what the OS believes is the charge percentage.
07:29<rant>you should also look into your battery information batteries degrade and if your battery is degraded down to 15% or less of its capacity, it would seem like its needing to suspend
07:30<rant>seems we were thinking along the same lines :P
07:31<xxzz>replace the battery and see
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08:09<EmleyMoor>petn-randall: You're guessing wrong. It's not the level being reported that's the problem. It is simply Debian's reaction
08:09<EmleyMoor>rant: Lenovo ThinkPad X131e, using Gnome
08:09<peter1138>So what level is reported?
08:10<EmleyMoor>Doesn't matter, even if 100%, same reaction
08:11<peter1138>So it will resume from suspend and say 100% whilst on battery?
08:12<xxzz>I suspect it is gnome's power setting
08:12<EmleyMoor>It's not a resuming issue. It shouldn't be suspending ITFP
08:14<EmleyMoor>It's supposed to suspend if on battery power for 30 minutes. 30 milliseconds seems to be plenty, though
08:15<rant>EmleyMoor: pastebin the output of: gsettings list-recursively org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.power
08:16<rant>well on not pastebin :P
08:16*rant had to finish eating and bring his gnome VM online to figure out the right command :P
08:17<xxzz>dconf-editor if I recall correctly has power settings
08:17<rant>yeah well I don't care.. that command shows me all the settings
08:18<rant>hmm.. seems its set to sleep after 30 min
08:19<rant>or 1hr on av
08:19<rant>ac even
08:19<EmleyMoor>rant: Sleep meaning suspend on battery, nothing on AC
08:19<rant>yes well the timer is still set even though the action is nothing
08:21<rant>so to the best of my knowledge this is not gnome doing this.. though on my machine, which is a Lenovo X240, I get totally different behavior when X is not running.. so its obvious there are different things that do power management
08:21<rant>EmleyMoor: you're saying it suspends immediately on removing the power cord?
08:22<rant>and does so while gnome is running and on the screen?
08:22<EmleyMoor>rant: Yes
08:22<rant>because even if X is running being on say tty1 could make it act differently
08:22<EmleyMoor>(or, as has happened twice recently, when power is removed from the cord)
08:25<rant>EmleyMoor: and it wakes correctly?
08:26<EmleyMoor>rant: Yes, on a press of Fn
08:26<rant>EmleyMoor: ok, can you make it happen now.. by removing the cord? i.e. if you can, do it..
08:27<rant>EmleyMoor: then check /var/log/pm-suspend.log
08:30<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... not happened
08:30<rant>the suspend did not occur?
08:31<EmleyMoor>Indeed not, first time ever since new
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08:31<rant>well to the best of my knowledge those /var/log/pm* logs would not be written by DE based actions.. but would by other actions
08:32<rant>idea is to try figure out whats doing this.. could be anything from the BIOS on up to gnome-settings-daemon and anything in between
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08:33<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... if I can get it to do the wrong thing consistently again...
08:34<rant>I'd get it to do it, try find some log of it if possible.. and if you can make it happen consistently.. start removing possibilities.. i.e. try it without gnome-settings-daemon or such running..etc
08:34<rant>try it while on tty1, try it with the display manager service not running..
08:34<rant>narrow things down
08:35<EmleyMoor>rant: All that's happening as yet is making it more mysterious still
08:36<EmleyMoor>(I can remember saying to David when he was using it, be careful because it will suspend if you unplug it. That must be 5 years ago!)
08:37<rant>5 years ago would've been 1-2 debian releases ago :P
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08:42<EmleyMoor>rant: Indeed
08:43*EmleyMoor is trying again without any external logins
08:43<rant>and being that you use gnome, which is a piece of trash since 3.x more importantly that was several gnome 3.x releases ago back when it was REALLY premature
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08:45<EmleyMoor>Not got to the flashing tittle stage yet
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08:46<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... not going to happen. Suffering from Granada TV Rentals syndrome
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08:47<EmleyMoor>(fault magically disappears 10 minutes before the service man arrives{
08:51<rant>well I guess for now we've done all we can do, and I suppose I gave you some ideas on how to narrow it down if it happens again
08:52<peter1138>TV rentals, wow, is this the 1980s?
08:59<EmleyMoor>peter1138: 1970s-1980s we rented from Granada. 1980s-mid 1990s Multibroadcast/Radio Rentals, mid 1990s to late 1990s DVR (oh, and early 1970s, Henry Wigfall & Sons) - very OT but a bit of background
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12:38<Talkless>I have issues with some Lithuanian mirror:
12:38<Talkless>E: The repository ' stretch-updates Release' does no longer have a Release file.
12:38<Talkless>N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is therefore disabled by default.
12:38<Talkless>N: See apt-secure(8) manpage for repository creation and user configuration details.
12:38<Talkless>no Reelase file?
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12:39<Talkless>I do see Release file:
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12:43<petn-randall>Talkless: "stretch" and "stretch-updates" are different suites.
12:43<Talkless>oh right
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12:43<petn-randall>However, also contains a Release file.
12:44<Talkless> produces 403 Forbidden :/
12:44<petn-randall>Talkless: Can you paste the *complete* output of 'apt-get update'? Use for that.
12:46<Talkless>petn-randall: just a sec.
12:48<Talkless>same when using "" "proxy"
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13:00<petn-randall>Talkless: Do you mean mirror? A proxy is something very different.
13:01<Talkless>yeah, well I mean that system that redirects to "propper" mirror :)
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13:01<Talkless>this redirects to same mirror, there are (at least have been) more Lithuanian mirrors
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13:02<petn-randall>Talkless: That explains the issue:
13:02<petn-randall>Talkless: I'd switch to another mirror for the mean time.
13:02<Talkless>petn-randall: should I search for mirror master, or it's most likely the problem is known and will be fixed..?
13:03<petn-randall>Talkless: I'll assume it will be fixed very soon, or at least taken out of the mirror.
13:03<Talkless> has file ""
13:04<jhutchins_wk>Talkless: Maybe just
13:04<Talkless>jhutchins_wk: I'll try another Lithaunian mirrors, they speeds are pretty good
13:05<Talkless>I've tried neighbour Poland mirror, that was rather slow
13:12<jhutchins_wk>Geography != network topology
13:14<Talkless>jhutchins_wk: sure, doesn't need to, but likely to mach. What's the point of having "Poland" mirror hosted in USA, for example?
13:20<petn-randall>the pl mirror might be hosted in .de, though.
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13:27<Talkless>close enougth :) . At least not in Australia :)
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14:33<mnuhmnuh>Talkless: if Australia has faster/thicker/more modern pipes than that next door, i'd go with Australia.
14:34<Talkless>mnuhmnuh: yeh if you inside Australia, question is about inter-continent links.
14:34<Talkless> "Using a nearby server will probably speed up your download.." PROBABLY :)
14:35<mnuhmnuh>should be "possibly".
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14:59<jhutchins_wk>Talkless: Sometimes a host in one location may route it's traffic across the continent to an inter-network gateway and back just to get to the next state over.
15:06<mnuhmnuh>Talkless: true, if "last mile" infra negate the gains offered by (eg. Australian) infra, no point bothering the Australians.
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15:10<mnuhmnuh>i've found trusting the debian admins' networking foo is better than trying to second guess it for yourself.
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15:12<mnuhmnuh>so sources.list "" everywhere (as opposed to country code fiddling).
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19:44<marcurling>Hello, in the installation process/Partition disks: What LVM stands for, please?
19:46<sarnold>probably linux volume manager
19:46<sarnold>ah drat. Looks like it's *logical* volume manager. so close.
19:48*marcurling thanks sarnold
19:49<marcurling>Do you recommend using it for a VirtualBox install?
19:50<sarnold>maybe. it's been ~16 years since I last used it, so I'm not the ideal person to ask :)
19:52<ais-admin>If you do not know what the lvm is then I recommend you skip it. Learn about it first (it is an amazing thing with amazing capabilities) and THEN try it out on a vm.
19:54*marcurling thanks also ais-admin
19:57<rant>there isn't really a need for LVM in virtualbox
19:57<rant>you can use dynamic storage and make a 500PB disk that is only as large as what it contains :P
19:57<rant>and VB already does snapshots
19:58<rant>so the VM already does the two main features
19:59<rant>so other than to learn how to use an LVM its not needed
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20:00<marcurling>Got it rant, thanks.
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20:18<ap4lmtree>hwo can i download the buster or sid version of python3 instead of keeping with my stretch python3 version
20:19<ap4lmtree>is there a way i can do it only for python3 , but for the rest of my packages i keep them stretch?
20:19<ap4lmtree>and what is more stable sid or buster
20:20<rant>ap4lmtree: debootstrap buster ./buster-chroot; chroot buster-chroot/ "apt install python3"
20:21<ap4lmtree>i dont know what that does, is there another way that relies on apt-get?
20:22<rant>or use virtualenv
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20:22<ap4lmtree>okay, well that command line that you put would upgrade my whole os to buster, right
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20:23<rant>since there is no backport for python3, youd have to backport it yourself which would be difficult because python is messy
20:23<rant>ap4lmtree: no it would install a buster base system into the buster-chroot/ dir
20:24<rant>ap4lmtree: you could then chroot into that base system and install python and use schroot to easily run stuff inside it if you want to simplify it
20:24<rant>ap4lmtree: a chroot or virtualenv would be the best ways to do this.. I dont know much about virtualenv so I'd use a chroot
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20:25<ap4lmtree>it looks like chroot isn't a command on my system
20:25<rant>ap4lmtree: man chroot
20:25<rant>ap4lmtree: since the command changes the root for a given commant, it obviously has to be run as root
20:26<rant>thats one reason schroot is nice for after the chroot is setup because it can run as a normal user
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20:27<ap4lmtree>well, debootstrap isn't on my system, but chroot mgiht be
20:27<x1bncwn>question, installed onto ext4 partition, copied entire root filesystem to a directory, tarred it, moved it onto another partition. Rebooted install disk, created btrfs partition, untarred archive, edited fstab, etc, etc mounted /dev /proc chrooted, edited grub config, update-grub, grub-install, etc,etc no matter how many times or what i try, boots to grub shell
20:27<rant>ap4lmtree: apt install debootstrap schroot
20:27<ap4lmtree>ie, your command line doesn't work
20:28<x1bncwn>wondering if its unable to see root filesystem from uuid, when i do linux (hd0,gpt6)/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda6 boots fine from grub sell
20:28<ap4lmtree>okay, now it is working
20:28<rant>ap4lmtree: debootstrap is just a fancy shell script for installing a base system from a mirror into a directory
20:29<ap4lmtree>i have to do this upgrade to python 3.6.1 < because newest electrum requires it
20:29<x1bncwn>grub.cfg says unable to pass root= option with btrfs, so...
20:29<x1bncwn>it will force use of UUIS
20:30<rant>ap4lmtree: well schroot needs to be configured for your chroot environment, but after it is setup you can run schroot as any user to gain access to the chroot and run commands easily
20:30<x1bncwn>blkid, lsblk,/dev/disk/by-uuid all confirm the UUID im using is correct
20:31<x1bncwn>sudo /sbin/chroot ?
20:31<x1bncwn>if hes set as "administrator" only needs his own password, not root
20:33<x1bncwn>not sure why some systems configure such things, could easily sudo passwd
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20:33<rant>x1bncwn: how are you specifying the UUID? you can't just root=abcd-1234-defg-5678 etc..
20:34<x1bncwn>fstab, and its also specified automatically in grub.cfg
20:34<x1bncwn>guessing from initial install/setup
20:34<x1bncwn>im not
20:35<x1bncwn>only have to specify root in grub shell
20:35<x1bncwn>should be provided in linux command line or however through grubs config
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20:35<x1bncwn>root=/dev/sda6 works in grubs shell
20:35<rant>show me an example of how you would type it just like you showed that example of root=/dev/sda6
20:35<x1bncwn>the UUID i have in fstab is also in grubs grub.cfg
20:35<x1bncwn>i wouldnt type the UUID
20:37<rant>I'm only going to say this one last time.. either you show all your files on, show the syntax used, or stfu and go away
20:37<x1bncwn>search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd0,gpt6 --hint-efi=hd0,gpt6 --hint-baremetal=ahci0,gpt6 5cdcd31c-e3f6-4fe9-9e71-33f1cd1263bf
20:37<x1bncwn>grubs cfg
20:37<rant>you cannot just put a UUID in things
20:37<rant>you need special syntax
20:37<x1bncwn>i didnt put it in there
20:37<ap4lmtree>rant, it says, chroot: failed to run command 'sudo apt install python3' no such file or directory
20:37<x1bncwn>the installer did
20:37<x1bncwn>it worked fine on the original install
20:37<rant>ap4lmtree: just simply do chroot buster-chroot
20:38<rant>ap4lmtree: then do apt install python3
20:38<rant>ap4lmtree: there is no need for sudo, and sudo is not there.. chroot is run as root and the resulting shell inside the chroot is also root
20:38<rant>sudo is an optional component not part of a base install
20:38<x1bncwn>mount -o bind /{dev,proc,sys}; chroot $path; source /etc/profile
20:39<x1bncwn>mount -o bind /{dev,proc,sys} $path/dir; chroot $path source /etc/profile
20:40<x1bncwn>you cant change root without privilege, either he su - or he uses sudo
20:40<rant>x1bncwn: yes well, whatever.. the point is these files expect device names if you give them UUID you have to tell them so.. this isnt about who or what did it, its about it being wrong
20:40<x1bncwn>it worked before i copied the system onto the btrfs partititon
20:41<x1bncwn>this grub.cfg worked fine from install on ext4
20:41<x1bncwn>i only modified UUID accordingly
20:41<rant>grub has issues with btrfs for one thing.. that too requires special steps
20:41<x1bncwn>thats what i figured
20:41<rant>I can't help with that i'm not suffering from shiny new shit syndrome and wouldnt touch btrfs for years yet
20:42<ap4lmtree>rant, okay, it works when i run your command with sudo before debootstrip , sudo after ; and no quotes for apt install python3
20:42<x1bncwn>if they add compression into xfs id use that
20:43<x1bncwn>i dont need failsafe data storage
20:43<rant>in any case anytime you use a uuid it must be prefixed with UUID= i.e. root=UUID= in grub or UUID= in fstab, etc
20:44<x1bncwn>im on a running system right now, it booted with grub installed from the config line i just posted
20:44<x1bncwn>it works as is, just not on btrfs
20:44<ap4lmtree>rant, i do /tmp2/buster-chroot/usr/bin/python3 -m pip install [electrum3.3.3] and it complains about GLIBC_2.28 not found
20:45<ap4lmtree>rant, ,i think it is easier if i just upgrade my whole os to buster
20:45<rant>well, I did try btrfs once when debian first officially supported it, it did not boot and there were grub errors about btrfs.. when I switched to ext4 it worked fine.. thats all I know..
20:45<ap4lmtree>rant, you using buster?
20:45<x1bncwn>the fact it works when i tell it root=/dev/sda6 from shell with btrfs tells me its some uuid issue, but the default grub.cfg forces use of UUID for btrfs, which doesnt work
20:45<rant>ap4lmtree: no.. I'd considered upgrading to buster the other night but then I just installed what I wanted from backports instead
20:45<x1bncwn>so thats my dilemma
20:46<rant>yes well I have always used UUID= or LABEL=
20:47<rant>things have no way of knowing its a device node, uuid, label, etc if you dont tell them
20:47<x1bncwn>the grub.cfg automatically generates those on linux command line in grub
20:47<x1bncwn>i can manually enter it all day and boot into btrfs just fine
20:48<rant>linux /boot/vmlinuz-4.9.0-8-amd64 root=UUID=afda08a1-0a58-47b0-8dae-19d7594b8920 ro quiet splash
20:48<rant>is what this machine says
20:48<x1bncwn>where are you getting that line?
20:48<rant>UUID=afda08a1-0a58-47b0-8dae-19d7594b8920 / ext4 errors=remount-ro 0 1
20:48<rant>from grub.cfg and fstab respectively
20:49<rant>unless UUID= or LABEL= are specified, a device node path is assumed
20:50<x1bncwn>UUID=5cdcd31c-e3f6-4fe9-9e71-33f1cd1263bf / ext4 rw,relatime,data=ordered 0 1 .. i can change to btrfs uuid and change the options to defaults,ssd,compress=zstd
20:50<x1bncwn>grub shell
20:50<x1bncwn>even after reinstalling grub, update-grub, remove and purge grub and reinstall
20:51<x1bncwn>i verified the /boot/efi/EFI/ entries
20:51<x1bncwn>they were new
20:51<x1bncwn>still grub shell
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20:52<rant>yeah well this is all above my paygrade :P I dont use btrfs or efi so.. I'll leave you to it.. all I know is you can'
20:52<rant>t use UUID or Lables without specifying you're doing so
20:52<x1bncwn>it generated the grub.cfg automatically
20:53<x1bncwn>which works fine with ext4
20:53<x1bncwn>doesnt with btrfs, in the grub,cfg if you read the shell script it forces the use of UUID with btrfs and zfs
20:54<x1bncwn>why would it force the use of something that doesnt work?
20:54<x1bncwn>grub sucks
20:55<x1bncwn>now i gotta go all brainiac and fix the config?
20:55<x1bncwn>thats messed up
20:55<x1bncwn>i work for a living
20:56<x1bncwn>i bet even if i pass the option to not force use of UUID it still does
20:56<x1bncwn>because of the filesystem
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20:57<x1bncwn>its using some stupid cryptsetup script on non encrypted devices
20:57<x1bncwn>which cant detect the canonical root device
20:58<ap4lmtree>rant, okay, i got it installed by first chroot installing the dependencies listed on the electrum page of python3-setuptools python3-pyqt5 and python3-pip
20:59<x1bncwn>when i see the suffix -ubuntu on grub version i already new it was gonna be a problem
21:01<x1bncwn>they make it easier for new/normal users, and f*** power users over
21:02<x1bncwn>now you gotta reinvent the wheel to do what came naturally
21:02<x1bncwn>it told me /boot had to be on ext2/3/4, i disagreed
21:02<x1bncwn>i was right
21:03<x1bncwn>but their grub is mangled
21:03<x1bncwn>bet it works fine on redhat
21:04<x1bncwn>alien will covert rpm to deb right
21:06<x1bncwn>its noteworthy all rpm based dists are going commercial and mainstream
21:07<rant>ap4lmtree: you'd be best served by installing schroot on the host and configuring it for you schroot
21:07<rant>for your chroot
21:07<rant>there are sample config files with schroot you can modify to your needs
21:07<x1bncwn>a real database, metadata, a proper build system
21:08<x1bncwn>spec files in line with commonly known markup languages
21:10<x1bncwn>Name one non RedHat based distribution that has gone live/commercial
21:10<x1bncwn>Now IBM owns RedHat, thats just insane
21:12<x1bncwn>they parted ways with MS and abandoned OS/2, ditched their PC division to the Chinese. But spent billions on RedHat.
21:14<x1bncwn>GNU will be deprecated before long
21:16<x1bncwn>This is for Richard Stallman... "Crack the Sky - Hot Razors in my Heart"
21:16<sarnold>rant: no I think you're right, if you're going to use a chroot more than once in a while, it's worth setting up scrhoot. very handy.
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21:17<rant>especially if you are going to use X apps.. it handles all the complicated stuff for you
21:17<sarnold>oh my. I hadn't even thoguht about that. (I mostly use it for builds..)
21:18<sarnold>definitely having schroot's help there would count for a lot
21:18<x1bncwn>tell me this, why if i want to update an application, i have to update the entire system?
21:18<rant>you dont
21:18<x1bncwn>this is still the answer. "Dependency hell"
21:18<x1bncwn>Yes you do
21:18<x1bncwn>Unless you use flatpak
21:18<sarnold>apt-get install whatever
21:18<xxzz>I need to manually assign hw address to my network interface after boot in order to get network
21:18<x1bncwn>and it will upgrade all needed libraries
21:19<x1bncwn>which the rest of the system depends on
21:19<x1bncwn>requiring updating everything
21:19<rant>my method is first check backports.. if there isn't a backport available, examine deps to see if it'll install cleanly from another branch or if it can be backported easily, if not then you start exploring chroot or such
21:19<x1bncwn>or.. use a flatpak
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21:20<xxzz>how to make it work permanently, I can write a script and run it but that won't tell me why it is behaving like that
21:20<rant>and while I hate the name, I like the name of snap because a snap is what they call a crackhead.. and .. well.. you should feel like a crackhead if you are suffering from SNS Syndrome
21:20<x1bncwn>install vmware workstation 15 on debian
21:20<x1bncwn>with a debian package
21:22<x1bncwn>plenty of documentation to write an emerge script or rpm specfile
21:22<x1bncwn>how would we create a deb and a local repository?
21:22<x1bncwn>no worries, debian devs know best
21:22<x1bncwn>just like ms devs know best
21:27<x1bncwn>"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves."
21:27<xxzz>can't get wifi detected via notworkmanager or interfaces
21:27<x1bncwn>Minor modification.
21:28<rant>y'know we do have #debian-offtopic
21:28<x1bncwn>"Stability is the plea for every infringement of computing freedom. It is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves."
21:28<x1bncwn>Perfect time to chime in with that.
21:28<xxzz>this stuff is overly complicated and inadequate documentation adds insult to injury
21:29<rant>you don't like, you don't buy.. turn your ticket in, and get your money back at the door
21:29<sarnold>xxzz: almost no one needs to set their MAC .. just a handful of crazy ISPs and companies do that to their users..
21:29<sarnold>xxzz: so I'm not too surprised it's not widely documente
21:30<xxzz>sarnold: yeah, I always check documentation first before asking here
21:30<sarnold><3 :)
21:30<xxzz>anyway there are several other issues too
21:31<xxzz>some missing usr.sbin.<files> for apparmor
21:31<sarnold>interfaces(5) does mention the macchanger package .. it might have examples for your /etc/network/interfaces file?
21:31<xxzz>I am using macchanger after reboot but in absence of network the other services fail
21:31<xxzz>don't understand why there is no wireless interface
21:32<xxzz>it worked one day and then vanished
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21:33<x1bncwn>you can change mac id with ifconfig
21:33<xxzz>I know and I done that
21:33<x1bncwn>so write a shell script to make it easy for you
21:33<xxzz>what I don't understand is why the notworkmanager can't set it on its own
21:34<x1bncwn>they dont really want you changing it
21:34<xxzz>writing a script will be a workaround but it won't tell me why it is happening
21:34<xxzz>it is a feature isn't it
21:34<x1bncwn>why are you changing you mac id?
21:35<xxzz>security strategy
21:35<x1bncwn>its not a feature
21:35<xxzz>why not?
21:35<sarnold>xxzz: hmm. network-manager 1.10.6-2ubuntu1.1 has a 'cloned MAC address' field..
21:35<x1bncwn>its a spoof
21:35<x1bncwn>you cant change the rom
21:35<x1bncwn>you can report inaccurately
21:36<xxzz>yes a spoof but it is a valid option in notworkmanager
21:37<x1bncwn>lets say youre banned by ip, that ip is assigned by your carrier based on your mac id
21:37<x1bncwn>now you circumventing network security
21:38<xxzz>yeah but I have workaround for that
21:38<x1bncwn>even locally, no gateway or packets needed, just frames
21:38<x1bncwn>which use your mac id
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21:38<xxzz>that is a different scenario, I will discuss that after resolving current mess
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21:41<x1bncwn>the only security you influence by manipulating your mac address is everyone elses but your own
21:41<xxzz>okay, I am fine with it
21:42<x1bncwn>nobody on an external network can even see it
21:42<xxzz>anyway I figured out the issue
21:42<sarnold>what was it?
21:44<x1bncwn>i start some stupid class on tuesday for network engineering, i have no interest in it, but it will end with CCENT and CCNA and 12 credits towards an AAS in cybersecurity, on the state, no charge to me
21:44<x1bncwn>so what the hell
21:45<x1bncwn>fulfills all CIS elective credits
21:46<sarnold>xxzz: that's kinda vague :) what profile was preventing you from changing the mac? what rules were needed?
21:48<xxzz>I am tracing it at the moment
21:48<x1bncwn>if you can change it via ipconfig how is apparmor preventing it
21:49<x1bncwn>check permissions/access on the device
21:49<x1bncwn>is selinux enabled?
21:50<x1bncwn>maybe networkmanager is running as an unprivileged user and ipconfig is not...
21:50<xxzz>no selinux
21:50<sarnold>well.. ipconfig is a windows command, so apparmor won't do anything there
21:51<xxzz>anyway, I disabled apparmor rebooted and it worked
21:51<x1bncwn>nm-applet can be ran by common user
21:51<xxzz>now enabling again and rebooting
21:51<x1bncwn>ipconfig cannot
21:52<x1bncwn>lol, ifconfig
21:52<x1bncwn>have to use windows in these stupid classes
21:55<mnuhmnuh>having to use windows doesn't necessarily mean having to use win* apps
21:55<x1bncwn>when the exams are based on results of those aoos, it does
21:56<mnuhmnuh>exams are one time only
21:56<xxzz>windows is another complicated OS with fancy GUI
21:56<x1bncwn>anyway, upon installing macchanger, it asks about an option to facilitate changing mac id everytime a new network interface if attached
21:56<xxzz>anyway after enabling apparmor the interfaces vanished again
21:57<x1bncwn>i installed apparmor and then macchanger
21:57<x1bncwn>so i could see if i could replicate
21:57<x1bncwn>no issue thus far
21:57<xxzz>tail -f /var/log/syslog | grep 'DENIED' doesn't show anything
21:57<xxzz>enable apparmor
21:58<xxzz>copy profiles
22:00<x1bncwn>so what profiles do you have loaded
22:00<x1bncwn>all means what? they have to be installed, no?
22:00<xxzz>extras package
22:02<sarnold>oh man careful with that, I think a lot of those haven't been used in a decade or something
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22:03<x1bncwn>with all profiles enables
22:03<x1bncwn>x1bncwn@alcatraz:~$ sudo macchanger -r enp0s25
22:03<x1bncwn>Current MAC: 28:d2:44:39:56:83 (LCFC(HeFei) Electronics Technology Co., Ltd.)
22:03<x1bncwn>Permanent MAC: 28:d2:44:39:56:83 (LCFC(HeFei) Electronics Technology Co., Ltd.)
22:03<x1bncwn>New MAC: 2a:fc:ce:94:0d:c6 (unknown)
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22:06<x1bncwn>enp0s25: flags=4099<UP,BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
22:06<x1bncwn> ether 2a:fc:ce:94:0d:c6 txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet)
22:07<mnuhmnuh>what's the name of the free thing, like comercial exceed, that let you run x apps on win*?
22:08<x1bncwn>apparmor module is loaded. -- 49 profiles are loaded. -- 11 profiles are in enforce mode.
22:10<x1bncwn>a virtual machine or an emulator?
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22:13<x1bncwn>well, there is gtk and qt for windows
22:13<x1bncwn>the dilemma is win apps on Linux
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22:15<x1bncwn>ReactOS seems interesting, but no 64bit or GPT partition support
22:15<x1bncwn>sees the table, but not the individual partitions
22:16<mnuhmnuh>whose dilemna? not mine.
22:16<x1bncwn>people that want binary compatability
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22:16<sarnold>mnuhmnuh: you never feel the urge to play gorillas.bas?
22:17<mnuhmnuh>do not give a flying **** about win* in any way whatsoever. :-)
22:17<x1bncwn>when you get a job, they just might
22:17<x1bncwn>start a business, your customers just might
22:18<x1bncwn>need a piece of software that ONLY runs on WIN but want to migrate your systems to Linux?
22:18<x1bncwn>etc, etc
22:18<mnuhmnuh>they did, yes. now, i'm on strike. they can't have it.
22:18<x1bncwn>can always do the VM thing, but native compatability is better
22:19<x1bncwn>games that are exclusive to Win
22:20<x1bncwn>plus nobody is making professional presentations with Libre Office
22:21<x1bncwn>You need compatability and interoperability with MS Office
22:21<sarnold>is MS Office still a thing?
22:22<x1bncwn>like 995 of all office applications in the workplace kind of a thing
22:22<sarnold>I'd wager 60% of the presentations I've seen were google docs something, 30% libreoffice, 10% magicpoint / latex beamer / etc
22:22<x1bncwn>youd lose that wager
22:24<mnuhmnuh>diffrent folks, diffrent strokes. hang with win* people, expect win expectations.
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23:18<Katnip>mnuhmnuh, windows people??:)
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23:22<mnuhmnuh>Katnip: corps who can't concieve of anyone useing other than win*. offtopic. prefer to learn about cool debian/limux stuff personally. powerpoint et al puts me to sleep, no apologies.
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23:45<xxzz>if I put ! in a passphrase for wireless I get error - event !XX# not found
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---Logclosed Thu Jan 31 00:00:44 2019