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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-02-03

---Logopened Sun Feb 03 00:00:13 2019
---Daychanged Sun Feb 03 2019
00:00<themill>root's crontab is only run as root
00:00<xxzz^>okay
00:00<xxzz^>thanks
00:01<themill>note that /etc/cron.d/* and /etc/crontab have a different format than the user's crontab (including root's crontab)
00:03-!-mnemonic [~semeion@0001996c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3]
00:03<themill>(I would also never use root's crontab but use /etc/cron.d/ instead)
00:04<xxzz^>cron.d/w/m is good but I prefer crontab for what I want to do
00:05<themill>cron.d ≠ cron.daily
00:06<xxzz^>yeah
00:06<xxzz^>daily/weekly/monthly
00:06<xxzz^>I found what I was looking for
00:06<themill>and cron.d is different
00:06<xxzz^>17 * * * * root cd /tmp
00:06<xxzz^>yeah I know
00:06<xxzz^>//etc/crontab will do
00:07<xxzz^>thanks
00:07<themill>/etc/cron.d/ would be better than /etc/crontab
00:07<xxzz^>can I put root cd /tmp < /path/to/script > in there
00:08<themill>it's the same format
00:08<xxzz^>okay then
00:08<xxzz^>I will use daily
00:08<themill>um, no, /etc/cron.daily is different
00:09<xxzz^>okay, got it
00:09<xxzz^>cron.d
00:09<xxzz^>thanks
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12:13-!-grawity is "Mantas Mikulėnas <grawity@gmail.com>" on #debian #linode
12:15<grawity>let's say I want to run a 4.9.x kernel in buster, is there a repository for this or should I just manually download the stretch .deb?
12:17<bremner>you should probably build from source
12:17<bremner>I mean, assuming that you have a good reason for running an old kernel.
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12:18<livetux>Hello!
12:19<petn-randall>hi livetux
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12:20<livetux>How long are you using Linux @petn-randall?
12:20<grawity>bremner: it's an old laptop and I want to use some old stuff that's been removed from 4.19
12:20<grawity>specifically, want to play around with IrDA
12:20<grawity>...sometime in the future when I acquire another IrDA-capable device, that is.
12:20<bremner>grawity: you understand you're missing a bunch of security fixes, right?
12:21<grawity>1) this isn't a device that needs 100% coverage in security fixes, 2) I was under the impression that 4.9 series is still maintained (otherwise why would it be stretch's main kernel)
12:23<petn-randall>livetux: For probably close to 20 years now. However, this is a support channel, so it would be better to continue our chat in #debian-offtopic.
12:23<grawity>(it's a 2005-era laptop for recreational tinkering, doesn't even have PAE)
12:24<livetux>Thanks for the guideline. Switching to offtopic right now...
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12:28<bremner>grawity: that's a fair point about stretch using the kernel. Then I'd expect you'd want to build the stretch sources. But maybe it's fine running kernel packages from the previous release, it obviously happens during upgrades
12:29<grawity>right, running the previous package is what I'm currently doing (it remained after upgrade so I just did `apt-mark hold` on it)
12:30<grawity>hmm, maybe I can do something with stretch's regular repository and apt-preferences
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16:38<ap4lmtree>hi
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16:39<ap4lmtree>i upgraded from stretch to buster , ando now i try sudo aptitude -t stretch-backports install python-appindicator and it says not installation candiate
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16:40<blast007>ap4lmtree: why would you be installing software from stretch-backports on a buster system?
16:41<ap4lmtree>well, buster doesnt have that so i thought i install the stretch one
16:41<rant>,v python-appindicator
16:41<judd>Package: python-appindicator on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.4.92-2; jessie: 0.4.92-3.1; stretch: 0.4.92-4
16:41<rant>because its not in stretch-backports either
16:42<ap4lmtree>i see
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16:42<rant>,depends python-appindicator
16:42<judd>Package python-appindicator in stretch/amd64 -- depends: libappindicator1 (= 0.4.92-4), libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.12.4), libc6 (>= 2.2.5), libcairo2 (>= 1.2.4), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.11), libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1), libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 (>= 2.22.0), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.16.0), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.12.0), libpango-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libpangocairo-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libpangoft2-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), python (>= 2.7), python (<< 2.8),
16:42<judd>python-gobject.
16:42<rant>,v python
16:42<judd>Package: python on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.7.3-4+deb7u1; jessie: 2.7.9-1; stretch: 2.7.13-2; buster: 2.7.15-4; sid: 2.7.15-4
16:43<rant>,v libappindicator1
16:43<judd>Package: libappindicator1 on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.4.92-2; jessie: 0.4.92-3.1; stretch: 0.4.92-4; buster: 0.4.92-7; sid: 0.4.92-7
16:43<rant>ap4lmtree: you can't install that on buster, you will need to "forward port" it :P
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16:44<rant>,depends libappindicator1
16:44<judd>Package libappindicator1 in stretch/amd64 -- depends: libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.12.4), libc6 (>= 2.2.5), libcairo2 (>= 1.2.4), libdbusmenu-glib4 (>= 0.4.2), libdbusmenu-gtk4 (>= 0.4.2), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.11), libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1), libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 (>= 2.22.0), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.37.3), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.20.0), libindicator7 (>= 0.4.90), libpango-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libpangocairo-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libpangoft2-1.0-0
16:44<judd>(>= 1.14.0).
16:45<rant>ap4lmtree: problem is python-appindicator in stretch has a strict dependency on libappindicator1 0.4.92-4 and buster has 0.4.92-7
16:46<rant>ap4lmtree: it may be possible to merely modify the package to loosen up that dependency
16:47<ap4lmtree>yeah, aptitude gave me the option of downgrading to 0.4.92--4 and i di
16:48<blast007>"Remove legacy PyGTK bindings (python-appindicator) since nothing in Debian depends on them any more" https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs/main/liba/libappindicator/libappindicator_0.4.92-7_changelog
16:50<rant>blast007: its actually in sid arm64
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16:54<rant>,i python-ayatana-appindicator buster
16:54<judd>Package python-ayatana-appindicator (python, optional) in buster/amd64: Python bindings for libayatana-appindicator (GTK-2+ version). Version: 0.5.3-4; Size: 72.6k; Installed: 120k; Homepage: https://github.com/AyatanaIndicators/libayatana-appindicator
16:54<rant>this seems to do the same thing
16:55<ap4lmtree>okay, it looks like my fix isn't going to work , so i will downgrade to stretch i guess
16:55<rant>no you wont
16:55<rant>heh
16:55<rant>you keep suggesting things that will not happen
16:56<rant>ap4lmtree: can you not port whatever you got to python-ayatana-appindicator?
16:58<rant>near as I can tell appindicator was an ubuntu project and ayatana-appindicator is a fork of that project
16:58<rant>I'd think they'd be very compatible APIs
17:05<rant>your silence and bad ideas worries me
17:05<rant>I guess I'll wait until later when you've seriously broken something :P
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17:19<ap4lmtree>is it a security issue is why network names were changed from eth0 to random names
17:21<rant>hmm.. that seems to have absolutely nothing to do with anything
17:21<rant>oh, it was suppose to be a question
17:22<ap4lmtree>https://www.itzgeek.com/how-tos/linux/debian/change-default-network-name-ens33-to-old-eth0-on-debian-9.html
17:22<ap4lmtree>i changed it back to eth0
17:22<rant>ap4lmtree: predictable network names were done more to keep network config consistent.. it used to be a pain for various firewall or such things with elaborate configuration when the network devices kept changing their names
17:22<rant>ap4lmtree: its not really an issue if you only have one network device
17:22<rant>the problem is when you have more than one and they are not always given the same name
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17:58<sdk>huh that link show an awful way to disable the predictable name
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17:59<rant>all you need to do is pass net.ifnames=0 on the kernel command line
17:59<rant>I didnt look at the link
17:59<rant>its also doable via the sys interface
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18:00<rant>but adding net.ifnames=0 to the default linux commandline in the grub config is simple enough
18:00<sdk>you can create your own .link files in /etc/systemd/network/. I find it cleaner.
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18:01<rant>sounds complicated :P
18:01<sdk>not at all
18:01<rant>systemd may have been a good idea but its getting ridiculous
18:01<rant>we dont need a lord of the foss, on foss project to rule them all
18:02<rant>its a kernel thing.. should be done using kernel mechanisms
18:02<sdk>rant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo Tragedy of systemd (LCA 2019)
18:03<sdk>network is a service...
18:03<sdk>So one could argue that systemd being a service manager should handle that stuff.
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18:04<sdk>There's no right or wrong answer
18:12<rant>I just personally find it annoying that this one component has its tenticles in everything
18:14<rant>as a long time user I find it easier to think of it as an init replacement and keep doing everything else not related to services the way I always have
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19:08<mnuhmnuh>systemd changes things too, of which you need to be aware. eg. timesyncdaemon obsoletes ntp
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20:41<tomg>ap4lmtree: thanks for the network name URL
20:44<rant>yeah.. I realized the time thing.. when I realized I couldnt change the clock
20:46<rant>pretty much every problem I had when I crawled out from under my rock after several years..lead back to systemd somehow
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22:13<xxzz^>systemd doesn't raise the network during boot
22:13<xxzz^>systemd[1]: Failed to start Raise network interfaces.
22:13<xxzz^>systemd[1]: Failed to start Raise network interfaces.
22:13<xxzz^>sorry
22:14<xxzz^>my configuration in /etc/network/interfaces is as per the wiki
22:19<tomg>can i see your interfaces on paste.debian.net?
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22:33<xxzz^>tomg: sure
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22:34<xxzz^>tomg: https://paste.debian.net/1064933/
22:37<tomg>do you know which device(s) are not being brought up?
22:37<xxzz^>all devices
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22:37<tomg>including lo?
22:37<xxzz^>enp5s0 doesn't show a MAC address in NetworkManager unless I generate one and run dhclient
22:38<xxzz^>lo is up
22:38<xxzz^>later I manually bring up the interfaces after several attempts
22:39<tomg>does ifupdown still work with systemd?
22:40<tomg>what does ifup -a do?
22:41<xxzz^>https://paste.debian.net/1064937/
22:42<xxzz^>I am not sure I follow stuff from systemd
22:42<tomg>i definitely don't
22:42<xxzz^>I will show you journalctl
22:42<tomg>uhm are your interfaces working now?
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22:42<xxzz^>I bring them up manually
22:42<xxzz^>but wireless doesn't work
22:43<codeo>hello
22:43<codeo>is this where i talk
22:43<codeo>i don't understand IRC
22:43<tomg>hi codeo
22:43<tomg>sure
22:43<xxzz^>This stuff if from Saturday and I do this after boot - https://paste.debian.net/1064936/
22:43<xxzz^>s/if/is
22:43<codeo>how do i set the CPU governor to powersave when on battery but performance when plugged in?
22:44<xxzz^>codeo: have a read https://wiki.debian.org/SimplePowerSave
22:44<tomg>xxzz^: i'm not sure what the RTNETLINK error messages mean, but i guess the problem is not in systemd/ifupdown
22:45<codeo>thanks xxzz^
22:45<xxzz^>It actually worked earlier
22:46<xxzz^>I enabled apparmor and then it went crazy
22:46<xxzz^>not sure what to put in complain mode
22:46<codeo>well I don't have an /etc/pm directory
22:46<tomg>Feb 02 02:03:50 flux ifup[761]: RTNETLINK answers: Cannot assign requested address
22:47<tomg>this is the error message i don't understand
22:47<xxzz^>yes
22:49<tomg>i don't know much about apparmor, but i think it doesn't apply to ifconfig
22:49<xxzz^>I am going to write a script and figure out how to make it run after the systemd errors out
22:50<xxzz^>apparmor pointer is w.r.t stuff that work before and went kaput after
22:50<xxzz^>worked before*
22:51<xxzz^>I am not sure why MAC address of enp5s0 gets wiped out during boot
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23:04<codeo>hello
23:04<codeo>hello ?
23:04<codeo>həll°
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23:13<codeo>hello
23:13<codeo>can somebody help me?
23:14<tomg>hi codeo
23:14<codeo>hi
23:14<tomg>i can't help with the powersaving now
23:14<codeo>aight
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---Logclosed Mon Feb 04 00:00:49 2019