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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-03-09

---Logopened Sat Mar 09 00:00:04 2019
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03:36<at0m>!cross-compiler
03:36<dpkg>To install or build cross compilers and toolchains: https://wiki.debian.org/CrossToolchains
03:37<at0m>mischief: ^
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04:36<mafatu>Greetings, I am new at using debian. I use the lastest version with the gnome desktop environnement. I come from macOSX and I would like to configure the "shortcut bar" that you have on the left by default in gnome when you click on activities. Problem is I do not know the name of this bar and therefore I do not know where to search for informations about it.
04:37<mafatu>Appologies for a really newbie question
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04:40<mafatu>Yeah okay, nevermind, after an hour searching the web I just figured I had to click on that "help" button...
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05:13<mischief>at0m: yes, i know a cross compiler exists.
05:13<mischief>why doesn't my cross-chroot made with cowbuilder have it?
05:14<mischief>is there something i'm expected to do after chroot creation besides use --host-arch?
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10:42<mnuhmnuh>mischief: perhaps command-not-found might help. failures to find stuff suggest packages to install.
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10:48<znoteer>I'm trying to set up systemd-timesyncd to sync computers behind my router/firewall to the clock on the router/firewall. If I accept the default configuration file and run "systemctl restart systemd-timesyncd", "systemctl status systemd-timesyncd" shows "Status: "Synchronized to time server <someIPaddr>:123 (0.debian.pool.ntp.org)". If I modify the configuration file so that "NTP=<IPaddr of my
10:48<znoteer>router/fw>" and restart timesyncd and then check it's status, it reports "Status: Idle." and the clock on the client stays unsynchronised. Not much has shown up on duckduckgo. Can anyone offer any suggestions as to why this doesn't want to sync with my router/fw? and why it doesn't fall back to the FallbackNTP list of backup servers?
10:50-!-mode/#debian [+l 403] by debhelper
10:52<itd>znoteer: My interpretation of 'man timesyncd.conf' is: if NTP is set, FallbackNTP is ignored.
10:56<cesar>Hey, what's a good way manage packages on an offline system? I see there's apt-offline, and simple dpkg, but no info from debian.org.
10:58<cesar>the problem I have is streamlining the process of finding out which dependencies I need before I download and copy packages over. And I'm also worried that with uninstalls/reinstalls and updates the structure might become messy
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11:00<mnuhmnuh>cesar: apt show apt-offline says it generates all of that.
11:05<mnuhmnuh>that's odd. "wajig show ..." output doesn't look the same as "apt show ..."; the latter wraps long lines at ca. 80 char in xterm.
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11:08<cesar>hm, I'll look into apt-offline on my testing vm, hopefully it all works out
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11:14<znoteer>itd: well, that answers my second question I guess. Any ideas why timesyncd stays idle when I point it my router/fw?
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11:24<mnuhmnuh>my reading of pinfo timesyncd.conf is, whatever you do in configuration ends up way down at the bottom of the list of available options long after it's exausted whatever it could squeeze out of systemd (systemd-networkd.service(8)).
11:27<mnuhmnuh>"... a compiled-in list of NTP servers is used instead." is pretty tough to argue with. :-|
11:27<itd>znoteer: not really. i'd guess "idle" (+ no update) means your system didn't receive an answer from your router/fw. so, sniff traffic and check that those systems actually talk to each other?
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11:34<znoteer>mnuhmnuh: that compiled in list is only used of there was nothing in NTP= or FallbackNTP=
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11:36<mnuhmnuh>znoteer: i'm just saying finding out what timesyncd is getting from systemd and controlling that is job #1, i think.
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12:26<znoteer>mnuhmnuh: sorry I went AWOL to get some food in me. I checked the status of systemd-networkd in the midst of trying to figure this out. It reports: "Active: inactive (dead)". I just figured that was normal for a Debian system, that Debian handled networking some other way. Is that not the case?
12:28<znoteer>if it's dead, I guess timesyncd is getting nothing from it
12:28<mnuhmnuh>znoteer: i just found that in the manpage. i don't pretend i know systemd; just run across timesyncd before so wanted to point it out wrt your time sync prob.
12:29<znoteer>OK, thanks
12:31<mnuhmnuh>huh. mine says it's dead too. i'm connected to cable router via ethernet. dunno what's up w that.
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12:34<znoteer>it's disabled on my system, actually, which would explain why it is dead
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12:38<mnuhmnuh>looks to me it starts things up then goes away. man systemd.network, though: "NTP= ... #An NTP server address. This option may be specified more than once. This setting is read by systemd-timesyncd.service(8)."
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13:15<znoteer>mnuhmnuh: regarding man systemd.network, I don't have any of the configurations files where that NTP= might be written, so I don't think that's my problem
13:18<mnuhmnuh>i see "... systemd-timesyncd[566]: Synchronized to time server 158.69.125.231:123 (2.debian.pool.ntp.org)." i didn't do anything to get that.
13:19<mnuhmnuh>pkg ntp not installed here anymore.
13:21<mnuhmnuh>ah - /etc/systemd/timesyncd.conf --> "#NTP=" and "#FallbackNTP=0.debian.pool. ...", both commented out? hmm.
13:30<znoteer>you using compiled in defaults
13:30<znoteer>you're*
13:35<mnuhmnuh>i just/finally realized that, tx. :-)
13:37<znoteer>I get the same result as you if I use the default configuration file. It's when I try to point it at my local server that things go wonky
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13:57<sakax>hi all, what is the right and efficient way to disable the annoying beep in XFCE? I can disable it via < xset b off > in terminal but how can i run this by default on booting debian stable?
14:05<mnuhmnuh>sakax: put that in ~/.xsession
14:06<sakax>hi mnuhmnuh, i dont have xsession in my home folder? where can i find it to copy to home?
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14:09<mnuhmnuh>sakax: ~/.xsession's just a list of commands to set or execute at startup, usually ending with "exec /your/window/manager"
14:11<mnuhmnuh>mine just does "xset s off" and ". ~/.Xclients &". my .Xclients is my list of start stuff follwed by "exec ..."
14:12<mnuhmnuh>openbox in my case.
14:15<sakax>so for me it should be exec xfwm4 ?
14:18<mnuhmnuh>sakax: likely /usr/bin/xfwm4-session ? `which xfwm4` # huh? fvwm4?
14:18<sakax>yeah its not clear for me, will leave like this and do some digging next week
14:19<sakax>xsession wiki is not clear
14:19<mnuhmnuh>ah, xfwm4 == window manager of the Xfce project. didn't know.
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14:25<znoteer>itd: so, I've never used wireshark before, but I tried sniffing packets like you suggested. I managed to show just ntp traffic. When I restart timesyncd, I can see that something is happening between the two computers, but checking the status of timesyncd, it still shows it as idle, rather than as synchronised with my router/fw. Are you able to give anymore help in digging through the
14:25<znoteer>wireshark data do see what the two machines were saying to each other?
14:33<itd>znoteer: well done. :) you could compare the wireshark captured packets for timesyncd<->fw/router with timesyncd<->default_ntp
14:34<znoteer>itd: good suggestion.
14:34*znoteer runs off to try that
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15:08<znoteer>itd: for the most part, the packets are the same in the two scenarios. The differences are that, 1) the "Reference Timestamp" was set to 1 Jan 1970 00:00:00.00000 during the conversation between timesyncd and my router/fw, whereas, when talking with the default server, the Reference Timestamp was set to the time of the initial contact between them, and then gets updated occasionally, and 2),
15:09<znoteer>the "Origin Timestamp" is 2 to 3 seconds ahead of the "Receive and Transmit Timestamp"s when talking with my router/fw, whereas they are the same when talking to the default server. So, my router/fw appears to be talking to timesyncd on my other machine, but it doesn't appear to be exactly the same conversation as with the default server. Is there anymore juice that can be extracted from a
15:09<znoteer>wireshark capture? I'm kind of flopping around hap hazard looking for clues
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15:29<itd>znoteer: uh, so your local clock is ~2s ahead of your router/fw's clock? ( http://www.networksorcery.com/enp/protocol/ntp.htm#Reference_timestamp ) you could try to manually turn back time on your local machine.
15:31<znoteer>A couple of days ago I manually synced the clocks of all the client machines to the clock of my router/fw. They've drifted over the last couple of days. I had them to within less than a second difference between them
15:40<znoteer>I've tried doing this with ntp as well with no more success at synchronisation
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15:41<itd>can you configure the ntp service on your router/fw? (and make it behave more like debian.pool.ntp.org)
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15:52<itd>(re wireshark capture: you could try to use it to mimic the debian ntp server by sending received packets to your machine. if it updates its clock, your router/fw does something funny. but: huge effort, little gain.)
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15:56<znoteer>itd: it would be difficult to mimic the debian servers without 1) knowing what they've and 2) knowing what I'm doing myself :). I basically just followed the examples in the ntp configuration file on the router/fw to make it serve time. That involved uncommenting the "broadcast" keyword and putting the broadcast address of my network
16:04<znoteer>what they've *done*
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16:29<itd>You could also try to boot with 'systemd.log_level=debug' in your kernel commandline. (There are some debug messages in timesyncd that might give some insight https://sources.debian.org/src/systemd/241-1/src/timesync/timesyncd-manager.c/#L404 )
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16:43<znoteer>itd: wow, that sounds like it's starting to get serious. OK, I might give that I try, but I want to do some other stuff before I reboot. Thanks
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16:56<Bartosz1>Good evening.
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17:27<Bartosz1>Dear Debian users. I'd like to ask a kind side-Debian question. As I decided to move to other computer, I'm wiping my old HDDs now and found out the dban (Darik's Boot and Nuke) is advised on many webpages. However, I remeber that during Debian installation, it is added that in the beginning of a process, the full read-write erase is done. Does any of you know, if it's more secure to do so
17:27<Bartosz1>(just install Debian on) insead of use dban?
17:27<Bartosz1>Kind regards
17:29<mischief>mnuhmnuh: but i thought that building a package from source implicitly dependend on the compiler?
17:29<mischief>why does it not depend on the cross compiler package automatically? what should i do to get it installed in the cowbuiler?
17:33<znoteer>itd: when you said reboot with systemd.log_level=debug on the kernel commandline. You meant on the client machine, right, not the router/fw?
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17:33<itd>znoteer: yes
17:34<znoteer>thanks
17:35<mnuhmnuh>mischief: do aptitude search build and note all the packages one _may choose from_ to build something. note specifically build-essential, "Informational list of build-essential packages".
17:36<itd>znoteer: https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/Debugging/
17:38<mischief>mnuhmnuh: how can i get the correct cross compiler into the chroot?
17:40<mnuhmnuh>mischief: crossbuild-essential-armhf may be informative. as for how, i've never done anything like it. cowbuilder's new for me when you mentioned it.
17:41<mischief>mnuhmnuh: yes, crossbuild-essential-armhf *is* the package i want :)
17:41<mischief>i'm wondering why it was not installed automatically when i specified --host-arch armhf.
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17:42<mnuhmnuh>mischief: it says it's only an informational list of pkgs, not actual build tools.
17:44<mnuhmnuh>http://paste.debian.net/1072521/
17:44<mischief>mnuhmnuh: yeah, but it has direct depends on the cross gcc and g++. installing crossbuild-essential-armhf gets me the right compiler, since they are direct dependencies. however, i want those cross compilers *in the chroot*
17:45<jrtc27>mischief: you're doing `cowbuilder build --host-arch armhf foo.dsc`?
17:45<jrtc27>on stretch?
17:45<jrtc27>(stretch host that is, not the chroot)
17:46<mischief>jrtc27: i think my host is unstable, and i actually am trying to use gbp/git-pbuilder, but they are just using cowbuilder internally.
17:46<mischief>but yes, i'm using cowbuilder create --host-arch armhf more or less.
17:46<jrtc27>--host-arch is a no-op for create
17:46<jrtc27>--host-arch *only* makes a difference for build
17:47<jrtc27>your chroot is *always* a plain native chroot
17:47<mischief>jrtc27: ok. my specific invocation is: gbp buildpackage --git-ignore-new --git-pbuilder --git-no-create-orig --host-arch armhf
17:47<jrtc27>but at build time, if you request a cross-build with --host-arch, it will add the foreign arch and pull in the cross packages
17:47<jrtc27>I think you want --git-pbuilder-options='--host-arch armhf'
17:47<jrtc27>or something similar
17:48<jrtc27>your problem is that --host-arch isn't getting through to cowbuilder/pbuilder properly
17:49<mischief>yeah
17:49<mischief>well
17:49<mischief>ok, here's whats odd
17:49<mischief>my package uses autoconf
17:51<mischief>./configure is invoked with the correct --host=, and configure tries to detect the cross compiler
17:51<mischief>it's not found since the package wasn't installed and configure falls back to plain (non-cross) gcc
17:51<mischief>so the cross target option *is* getting to configure.. just not package installed :(
17:51<jrtc27>are you sure the *build* arch is correct though?
17:52<jrtc27>ie does configure think it's building armhf natively or cross-compiling from (I assume) amd64?
17:52<jrtc27>what --build= gets passed?
17:52<grove>Bartosz1: I'd never heard of dban before, but that kind of tool istypically only worth using if there's a chance others might get physical access to the disc soon, and if you're going to use it, tat
17:53<jrtc27>Bartosz1: I'm 99.9% sure the Debian installer does not do a block-level erase of the entire disk
17:53<jrtc27>that would be very slow
17:53<jrtc27>and wholly unnecessary normally
17:54<mischief>looks like it is invoking '/usr/bin/perl /usr/bin/dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc --host-arch armhf'
17:54<grove>others gaining physical access and recovering old data should not be your main concern
17:55<mischief>jrtc27: here's the configure snippet from the log: http://ix.io/1D2Z
17:56<jrtc27>mischief: can you please get the full pdebuild/cowbuilder/pbuilder command line?
17:57<jrtc27>ps auxww | grep '\(pbuilder\|cowbuilder\|pdebuild\)'
17:57<jrtc27>(whilst the build is running)
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17:58<mischief>I: forking: pbuilder build --debbuildopts --debbuildopts ' '--host-arch' 'armhf'' --buildplace /var/cache/pbuilder/build/cow.10480 --buildresult /home/mischief/work/src --m
17:58<mischief>irror http://mirrors.kernel.org/debian/ --distribution sid --no-targz --internal-chrootexec 'chroot /var/cache/pbuilder/build/cow.10480 cow-shell' /home/mischief/work/src/lib
17:58<mischief>eero-analytics_1.3.2.dsc
17:58<mischief>just from the log
17:59<mischief>stupid newlines
18:00<jrtc27>could you paste the full log somewhere?
18:00<jrtc27>at least up until it calls dpkg-buildpackage
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18:03<mischief>jrtc27: http://ix.io/1D33
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18:06<jrtc27>mischief: aha
18:06<jrtc27>--debbuildopts ' '--host-arch' 'armhf''
18:06<Bartosz1>grove jrtc27 Thank you.
18:06<jrtc27>that's bypassing pbuilder and passing it straight on to dpkg-builacpagek
18:06<jrtc27>which is why you need --git-pbuilder-options='--host-arch armhf' like I suggested
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18:07<jrtc27>without it, it gets interpreted as an argument for *just* dpkg-buildpackage
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18:08<mischief>ok
18:08<mischief>new error :-P
18:09<jrtc27>because you're not using the apt resolver I assume
18:09<mischief>yes
18:09<jrtc27>put PBUILDERSATISFYDEPENDSCMD=/usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends-apt in your pbuilderrc
18:09<mischief>... and then my host pc just crashed
18:09<mischief>stupid unstable amdgpu driver
18:09<jrtc27>:(
18:09<mischief>that's what i get for picking thinkpad A485 for my work pc :-)
18:14<mischief>jrtc27: as an aside, is it normal to have to specify pkg-config in Build-Depends?
18:15<jrtc27>yes; build-essential doesn't depend on it
18:15<mischief>hm
18:15<mischief>E: Unable to locate package libstdc++-6-dev:armhf
18:15<mischief>looks like that isn't available
18:15<jrtc27>yes, that's a bug in your pbuilder
18:15<jrtc27>update it
18:15<jrtc27>if you're on unstable
18:16<jrtc27>fixed in 0.230.2 on 28th Feb
18:16<mischief>interesting, ok
18:16<jrtc27>(we messed up and accidentally hard-coded the gcc version...)
18:16<mischief>it would appear my system is actually testing
18:18<mischief>ok, i snarfed the .deb off the mirror. it's working now :-)
18:18<jrtc27>:)
18:18<jrtc27>it'll migrate in the next 24h anyway
18:19<jrtc27>(though the fixed version chokes if your chroot has multiple gcc versions, because the other maintainer went with a different implementation to my suggestion... :P)
18:19<jrtc27>so we'll do a .3 before buster is released
18:20<mischief>libeero-analytics_1.3.2_armhf.deb
18:20<mischief>\o/
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18:21*mnuhmnuh it compiles. ship it!
18:21<mischief>jrtc27: thanks for your help
18:21<mischief>the information available on this is a bit fragmented.. i had to piece together bits from manuals and half finished wiki pages
18:22<jrtc27>yw; git-buildpackage can be both convenient and a real pain... :)
18:23<jrtc27>yeah, cross-compiling is a relatively recent thing to be so widely supported, so there isn't much documentation on it
18:23<mischief>specifically in debian-land?
18:23<mischief>at my old job we used gentoo where it was quite pleasant to cross compile :-P
18:23<jrtc27>yes; obviously it's been around for ages in configure+make+install
18:24<jrtc27>but having the chroot build tools automatically do everything is new
18:24<jrtc27>(well, several years now, but new in debian timescale)
18:24<mischief>at my new job our target system is arm and the build system is a pile of hacks since nobody knew how to actually cross compile, and i'm trying to fix it >_>
18:25<jrtc27>well good luck; sounds like a worthy endeavour :)
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20:12<mnuhmnuh>even more worthy: document the system and point out the hacks so whoever follows won't be forced into your present situation.
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---Logclosed Sun Mar 10 00:00:05 2019