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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-03-11

---Logopened Mon Mar 11 00:00:07 2019
00:00<purple1>what is required for rebuilding the toolchain
00:00<purple1>looking at the 1gb of sources
00:01<purple1>is it possible to make debian so that nothing will run on any other computer
00:02<purple1>by rebuilding the toolchain
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00:41<purple1>miami
00:41<purple1>hitron angelic
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01:42<maxrazer>does anyone else use/try the Surf browser? It crashes on me for almost every website I try to open. I'm running Debian Sid.
01:43<maxrazer>Only Google.com and C-span.org will open.
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01:48<jm_>best ask in #debian-next if it's related to sid - BTS does have segfault bug for youtube.com so ...
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05:15<lids>hi all: is there any possibility to create someone a unity about the terminal-based packages here?: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/
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05:20<jm_>lids: there is far more generic approach to that available via debtags, i.e. interface::text-mode
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05:45<smatchcube>Hello, I'm trying Debian Buster/Testing in a virtual machine, can I use the reportbug program to report bugs? Is there any difference between a bug report from stretch and testing?
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05:47<bremner>smatchcube: you can get better help for testing in #debian-next, but the short answer is yes, it's fine to use reportbug to report bugs from sid and testing
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05:49<smatchcube>bremner: thank you for your answer, have a nice day
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05:53<purple1>which repo is xfree86 in
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05:56<jm_>xfree86 is no longer used in debian, it was replaced by xorg
05:56<purple1>how add sources for debian 8 with no browser
05:57<purple1>the bots point to http sites
05:57<jm_>https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList will probably help
05:57<purple1>heh
05:57<jm_>ahh not without a browser :P
05:58<jm_>deb http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch main
05:58<jm_>deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security/ stretch/updates main
05:58<jm_>there
05:58<purple1>does that work for debian 8
05:58<jm_>that is for debian 8 yes
05:58<purple1>isnt stretch debian 9
05:58<jm_>wait no, you want jessie
05:59<cesar>Hey, I'm a bit confused about apt-offline. I'm trying to maintain my offline debian stable system via apt-offline, and sync its apt-offline signature file with my online debian buster box. However, apt-offline is unavailable for debian buster, yet it says that I could even use windows to sync my offline box: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/apt-offline
05:59<cesar>so the big question for me is how should I install apt-offline on my debian buster box?
06:00<jm_>purple1: just replace stretch with jessie
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06:01<jm_>I'll be back in about 45 minutes
06:03<cesar>the only thing that makes sense to me is installing it on a virtual machine that runs debian stable to be honest
06:04<bremner>cesar: in general if you asked this in the context of running testing permanently, I would suggest 1) moving to #debian-next, and 2) install the thing you want from unstable
06:05<purple1>jm_ look there it worked
06:05<purple1>where is the inittab
06:06<cesar>bremner: uhm, this is as much testing as it is stable. apt-offline on my debian stable makes no sense if it's not synced with another box
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07:56<lids>jm_: thx
07:57<jm_>lids: no problem
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10:16<romo>Hey guys. Is it possible to put these chown/chmod commands in a single script? I'm beginning to perceive life less colourful typing them out... https://paste.debian.net/hidden/b738f6d6/
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10:22<Talkless>romo: you can use chmod +X to add x only for directories
10:23<duclicsic>and yes of course you can put them in a script
10:23<duclicsic>that paste pretty much is a script, given that it's just a sequence of commands
10:23<Talkless>duclicsic: oh you mean in single command?
10:24<Talkless>you want to do that in single line?
10:24<Talkless>single commandŪ
10:24<Talkless>*
10:24<Talkless>oh sorry that's another persin.. lol..
10:24<duclicsic>I don't know of a way to perform all of those actions with a single existing command, no
10:24<duclicsic>yeah I was replying to romo
10:27<romo>Yeah, the idea was (instead of typing them out one by one) to create a script that when executed will run all of them in sequence instead.
10:28<duclicsic>romo: if you saved that paste to a file you can run them all in sequence by running "sh filename"
10:28<duclicsic>or you could just add a line at the start of the file like this "#!/bin/sh" and then you can run it like "./filename"
10:30<duclicsic>actally, you don't even need to do that second part it seems
10:30<duclicsic>I guess it'll just execute the commands in whatever shell you're in
10:30<duclicsic>save the commands to a file, chmod 755 it, then do ./file to run it
10:31<romo>duclicsic: Oh, seriously... guess I'll stop reading about "&&", "||" and ";" then and try just that. One second.
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10:33<mnuhmnuh>romo: think of some benign commands, and plug them in: date && pwd
10:33<duclicsic>there's not much need for things like && here though
10:33<duclicsic>but they're nice to learn about, so don't just drop it entirely
10:34<duclicsic>tbh i see too many cases where people string a bunch of commands together with && when there's really no need for conditional stuff
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10:42<romo>Damn it. Putting paste in file and sh-ing it appears to work perfectly well. Should have thought of this sooner: I would have updated the site considerably more frequent.
10:42<romo>Thank you very much, all of you.
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10:53<Talkless>romo: your script might call chmod & chown thousands of times, for all files and directories individually. Consider piping to xargs to do only single chmod/chown per line of your script
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11:03<romo>Talkless: Would this be correct? https://paste.debian.net/hidden/8f877221/
11:04<Talkless>romo: this might not work for paths that has spaces in them
11:04<duclicsic>tbh both of those chown operations could be condensed down to just "chown -R foo:www-data /path/to/webroot/"
11:04<Talkless>there are -print0-stuff for delimiting
11:04<duclicsic>why split by directory/file when they're both getting the same owner anyway
11:04<Talkless>right duclicsic, and adding x for directories-only could be done with cmod +X -R ...
11:05<duclicsic>Talkless: but would that remove global read for example if it were present?
11:05<Talkless>+X only appends x flag, should not change anything else
11:05<Talkless>IMO
11:05<duclicsic>right, so it wouldn't assure 750 permissions as a result then
11:06<duclicsic>the only issue with running through xargs is that you might end up with too many arguments, depending on how many files are in there
11:07<duclicsic>so I might stick to the existing method for the chmod in this case
11:07<Talkless>romo: consider this: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/45927198/
11:07<Talkless>oh sorry no, I should have been u+X,g+X
11:08<duclicsic>hm, yeah that's an idea. set all to 640 then +X the directories..
11:09<duclicsic>good thinking
11:09<Talkless>romo: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/77e66f7f/ *
11:10<Talkless>still, would bi nice to have single command for batch-chmodning/chowing, for atomicity. This will disable navigation temporarily...
11:10<Talkless>not atomic :/
11:10<Talkless>so still, find -exec is more robust? :)
11:11<duclicsic>hmm, i see only one small issue. +X applies if it's a file and "already has execute permission for some user"
11:11<duclicsic>so could leave some files executable
11:13<Talkless>ugh
11:13<romo>I understand approximately less than 1% of the last line but I was thinking about leaving files executable as well...
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11:26<romo>Wow, just learned things about chmod. Still having trouble wrapping my head about the last paste. Then again tested the xargs version which seems to work well. So I happily take both, first and the xargs one over typing.
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11:50<Talkless>romo: last line changes permissions for user and group, adding X for directories. though duclicsic noted that it might touch executables too...
11:51<Talkless>romo: 640 is changed into 750, because x/X is "1".
11:51<Talkless>4 - read, 2 - write, 1- execute
11:51<znoteer>itd, mnuhmnuh, blast007, rwp: I got my time synchronisation problem worked out. The problem was on my router/fw. DHCP was interfering with NTP. The router/fw gets its network configuration info via dhcp from the ISP's modem including the ip addr of an ntp server. That ntp server supplied by the ISP was not functionning, so my NTP server never synchronised to anything, so it refused to serve
11:51<znoteer>time to my LAN. I told dhclient on the router/fw to ignore the value supplied by the dhcp server and now my NTP server synchronises with the 'Net, and serves time to my LAN. Thanks for your various bits of wisdom in helping me to track down the problem.
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11:56<mnuhmnuh>znoteer: i was pretty sure it had to be the router that was fouling it up. didn't expect to see your isp/dhcp offering a non-functional ntp server though.
11:57<mnuhmnuh>brillant. [sic]
12:01*mnuhmnuh the more i read (techdirt.com) about modern isps, the more i want to fill a bottle with gasoline and stuff a rag in its top ...
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13:20<mnuhmnuh>Talkless: it used to be find's -exec would blow up when handed too many filenames, hence xargs. modern find's more robust now, but they both work.
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13:24<rwp>znoteer, Good deal on getting the time problem figured out!
13:24<sarnold>I thought it was the other way around -- find would only ever execute a command with one parameter at a time, hence xargs to reduce the vast amount of execve(2) overhead
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13:36<mnuhmnuh>sarnold: don't think so; i've been using regexps with find -exec since i started using it. xargs is/was just more capable of handling larger no. of fnames.
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13:39<sarnold>mnuhmnuh: note "The string `{}'
13:39<sarnold>ffs
13:39<sarnold>mnuhmnuh: note "The string `{}' is replaced by the current file name being processed everywhere it occursin the arguments to TheSuperGeek command, not just in arguments where it is alone, as in some versions offind.'
13:39<sarnold>mnuhmnuh: https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=find&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=Red+Hat+Linux%2Fi386+4.2&arch=default&format=html
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13:40<sarnold>mnuhmnuh: find didn't get the ability to execute one command with multiple filenames until it added the -exec + variant https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=find&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=SuSE+Linux%2Fi386+10.0&arch=default&format=html
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13:41<sarnold>"This variant ofthe -exec option runs the specified command on the selected files, but the command line is built by appending each selected file name at the end; the total number of invocations of the command will be much less than the number of matched files.The command line is built in much the same way that xargs buildsits command lines."
13:51<mnuhmnuh>sarnold: i guess i wasn't introduced to find that early in its existence.
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14:39<mischief>how do i run lintian on a source directory instead of a .deb?
14:41<romo>Talkless: Thanks for the explanation. Tried to read up on xargs and scripting some. Dependant on how much smoke the rig is emitting due to exec/xargs strain I'll alternate, trying another option respectively.
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17:06<purple1>is the debian 64bit version 64 bit only
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17:10<mnuhmnuh>venix: pardon? some people run 64 bit kernels and 32 bit apps. what do you want?
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17:16<venix>mnuhmnuh: when it is mixed it doesnt seem like there is any purpose but google chrome is only built for 64bit linux
17:18<venix>more than not having a putpose it serves to complicate and confuse things
17:21<venix>if I were to add on a 64bit system I'd rather have it a 64bit only machine
17:21*mnuhmnuh except for youtube, i avoid google *.
17:22<venix>here is a big problem the filesystems
17:22<venix>apparently the basic ext4 filesystem has two versions a 32bit and a 64bit
17:23<venix>yeah this really does cause problems this mixing
17:23<venix>it can possibly wipe out an entire system
17:23<venix>blow away the superblock
17:24<towo`>venix, you kidding, do you?
17:25<venix>no, no kids
17:25<towo`>there is no problem booting a 32bit linux and acces an ext4 formated ext4 partion, created with 64bit linux
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17:26<towo`>and the other direction isn't a problem either
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17:27<venix>I don't want to actively look for bugs
17:28<venix>there was something about that
17:28<venix>you can say no problem accessing ntfs of fat32 but try and boot windows after
17:29<venix>blown out torn and mutilated
17:29<venix>like those priceless memories
17:29<venix>mastercard venix can't pay to experience
17:31<venix>maybe you can ask falloutboy to cry for you
17:31<venix>you aint going to remember
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17:37<mnuhmnuh>!ot
17:37<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
17:37<crystusbsd>yeah so is it 64bit only or a mix
17:38<Blendie>\/6
17:39<mnuhmnuh>internal combustion? carburetor or injected?
17:40<mnuhmnuh>diesel, petrol, natgas, ...?
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17:49<piper>i try not to hang on the debian channels anymore but that was damn funny
17:54<mnuhmnuh>i'm still trying to wash away that "... but try and boot windows after"; the last thing i want to do.
17:55*mnuhmnuh boo hoo.
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18:16<crystusbsd>mnuhmnuh: it mangles the filesystem so windows cannot read it
18:16<crystusbsd>it appears to work fine
18:17<mnuhmnuh>feature.
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18:38<crystusbsd>not much of a use
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18:41<crystusbsd>destroy it and take the firmware
18:42<crystusbsd>I can see that happening.
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18:43<crystusbsd>or reverse engineer the drivers
18:48<crystusbsd>it looks like debian is mangling the packets
18:48<crystusbsd>my guess is something in kernel netfilter
18:49<crystusbsd>piper are you superior to debian now
18:50<piper>crystusbsd: no, love debian, just not their forums or irc
18:50<crystusbsd>I dont guess anybody asossiated with debian know anything about kernel netfilter
18:51<crystusbsd>the simplest question is to ask for a known good kernel
18:51<crystusbsd>but those sorts of questions are met with silence or silenced
18:51<dpalacio>is this a bot
18:51<piper>what i use Kernel: 5.0.1-towo.1-siduction-amd64 x86_64
18:51<somiaj>debian 64bit is 64bit only (Though the kernel can run 32bit apps). You have to turn on multiarch to install and use 32bit apps, which isn't set up by default.
18:52<crystusbsd>yeah like dpalacio leading into a ban
18:53<crystusbsd>somiaj and piper does it mangle all of your packets
18:53<piper>somiaj: you don't set multiarch unless you build with it
18:53<crystusbsd>have you configured netfilter
18:53<piper>crystusbsd: have a nice day, don't forget to smile :)
18:53<crystusbsd>if I drop mangling the entire thing breaks
18:54<somiaj>sure, I was just pointing out that the default debian kernel has the 32bit compadability layer enabled, but it is only used if one enables multiarch and installs 32bit apps and libs on their system.
18:54<crystusbsd>it looks like somwhere years back somebody input a reverse mangle table
18:55<crystusbsd>somiaj: yeah you answered but if it has netfilter problems I dont see why make the switch
18:55<crystusbsd>I loaded emacs but my guess is it is simpler to backtrack to a known good
18:56<somiaj>It works fine for me and plenty of other users. You are welcome to choose to use what you want though. But really I don't see much of a debian support question here.
18:56<crystusbsd>rather than attempt to rewrite kernel problems
18:56-!-Maxi[m] [~m189934ma@2001:470:1af1:101::13c9] has left #debian [User left]
18:57<crystusbsd>somiaj: "it works fine" did you check the mangle table
18:57<crystusbsd>I guess windows xp has a functioning tcp/ip
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18:59<backtrack>piper: I guess you dont know or dont want to tell me
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19:00<piper>crystusbsd: i suppose you don't have a filter on your toilet, do you know your government knows how many times you have flushed your toilet, and the exact time you flushed it
19:00<backtrack>I can recall using it all the way back to say rhel what was it 6
19:00<backtrack>and it had something funny about the firewall
19:00<piper>backtrack: what the fuck would i want a net filter for
19:01<piper>i run it wiiiiiide open
19:01<piper>enough, back to jerking off
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19:02<backtrack>so what can scare piper away from irc and forums with remarks like that somiaj
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19:08<somiaj>yea comments like that are not warnted here, they might be asking for a ban.
19:08<somiaj>As for your issue, I don't fully understand what it is, but I don't notice any issue for my use here, and the mangle table is mostly empty here except for a CHECKSUM on the udp protocol.
19:10<backtrack>look at the counters
19:10<backtrack>there is actually another which isnt listed
19:10<backtrack>raw
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19:12<backtrack>maybe on knoppix you can epect some mangling
19:13<backtrack>but debian is supposed to be standard
19:14<backtrack>it is doing prerouting
19:14<backtrack>look at the counters somiaj is your kernel doing it
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19:16*mnuhmnuh plugs mangle table into ddg -> https://www.thegeekstuff.com/2011/01/iptables-fundamentals
19:17<backtrack>maybe if it were running dnsmasq
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21:15<mnuhmnuh>https://wiki.debian.org/HowTo/dnsmasq
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23:26<maxrazer>what is debian-edu image? For education what is different?
23:27<maxrazer>Oh, sorry nevermind it says
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---Logclosed Tue Mar 12 00:00:08 2019