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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-04-24

---Logopened Wed Apr 24 00:00:10 2019
00:05-!-TomTheDragon [~tom@108-91-122-242.lightspeed.gnbonc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian
00:05-!-TomTheDragon is "Tom the Dragon" on #debian
00:09-!-ach [~spo@ipb218f274.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:13-!-vicamo [~vicamo@61-220-137-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: vicamo]
00:20-!-ach [~spo@ipb218f274.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
00:20-!-ach is "KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://kvirc.net/" on #debian
00:20-!-ttelford [zncsrv@2601:681:4100:8981:44dd:acff:fe85:9c8e] has quit [Quit: AAAGH! IT BURNS!]
00:21-!-ttelford [zncsrv@2601:681:4100:8981:44dd:acff:fe85:9c8e] has joined #debian
00:21-!-ttelford is "Troy Telford" on #debian-voip #debian-next #debian #debian-ipv6
00:31-!-jm_ [flier@000125af.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:31-!-jm_ is "." on #debian
00:33-!-semeion is "semeion" on #bitlbee
00:33-!-semeion [~semeion@0001996c.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:36-!-mnemonic [~semeion@0001996c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:52-!-sidmo__ [~sidmo@00026de1.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:52-!-sidmo__ is "sidmo" on #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian
00:55-!-tux0r [~tux0r@99-72-201-62.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian
00:55-!-tux0r is "realname" on #linode #linux #debian
00:55-!-snowyfox [~snowyfox@141.117.117.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:55-!-tux0r [~tux0r@99-72-201-62.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:58-!-jakethedog [~jakethedo@000269d7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:58-!-jakethedog is "jakethedog" on #debian
01:01-!-ach [~spo@ipb218f274.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:06-!-rd235 [~renzo@host5.studiodavoli.it] has joined #debian
01:06-!-rd235 is "renzo" on #debian
01:07-!-SkarmoutsosV [~Skarmouts@194.219.33.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:11-!-TomTheDragon [~tom@108-91-122-242.lightspeed.gnbonc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:17-!-semeion [~semeion@0001996c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.4]
01:30-!-hekatei [~hekatei@200116b826d31c00c0d3bb443849ad69.dip.versatel-1u1.de] has quit [Quit: Quit: Leaving]
01:35-!-dpalacio [~david@00013d94.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
01:44-!-jakethedog [~jakethedo@000269d7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: %quiet%]
01:46-!-jakethedog [~jakethedo@000269d7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:46-!-jakethedog is "jakethedog" on #debian
01:59-!-vicamo [~vicamo@61-220-137-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #debian
01:59-!-vicamo is "You-Sheng Yang" on #debian-kde #debian-dkms #debian-desktop #debian-bluetooth #debian-apt #debian
02:12-!-SkarmoutsosV [~Skarmouts@kostpol.ath.forthnet.gr] has joined #debian
02:12-!-SkarmoutsosV is "Vangelis Skarmoutsos" on #debian-i18n #debian-next #debian
02:14-!-thomasross [~thomasros@134.117.249.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:18-!-franam [~Thunderbi@78.5.217.99] has joined #debian
02:18-!-franam is "franam" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-devel-it #debian
02:32-!-Texou [~Texou@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:39-!-milkt [~debian@0002812a.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:39-!-milkt is "debian" on #debian-games #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian
02:49-!-phylophyl [~phylophyl@91-139-148-193.varna.ddns.bulsat.com] has joined #debian
02:49-!-phylophyl is "realname" on #debian-next #debian #freedombox
02:53-!-dust [~dust@0001ff89.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:55-!-dust [~dust@0001ff89.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:55-!-dust is "dust" on #debian-games #debian #debian-next #debian-science #linux-rt
03:01-!-sep [~sep@2a05:6d40:0:147:52e5:49ff:feeb:32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:02-!-sep [~sep@2a05:6d40:0:147:52e5:49ff:feeb:32] has joined #debian
03:02-!-sep is "Ronny Aasen <ronny@aasen.cx>" on #ceph #virt #fai #debian #debian-edu
03:11-!-hascable [~rien@00022c46.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:11-!-hascable is "Unknown" on #debian @#@work
03:16-!-drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has joined #debian
03:16-!-drzacek is "realname" on #linux-rt #debian-next #debian
03:21-!-oo_miguel [~oo_miguel@89-72-186-97.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #debian
03:21-!-oo_miguel is "oo_miguel" on #debian #suckless
03:30-!-war [war@2600:4040:400f:c300:10a:12ee:bd81:2acb] has joined #debian
03:30-!-war is "war_" on #debian #debian-next
03:39-!-SkarmoutsosV [~Skarmouts@kostpol.ath.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:40-!-vicamo [~vicamo@61-220-137-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:41-!-ao2 [~ao2@87.18.33.243] has joined #debian
03:41-!-ao2 is "ao2" on #vcs-home #debian #cell
03:42-!-Texou [~Texou@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:42-!-Texou is "Jean-Philippe MENGUAL" on #debian #debian-es #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-l10n-fr #debian-a11y
03:58-!-sidmo_ [~sidmo@00026de1.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:58-!-sidmo_ is "sidmo" on #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian
03:58-!-drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:59-!-cdlu [~cdlu@cdlu.advisor.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:01-!-skitt [~skitt@skitt.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:01-!-skitt is "Stephen Kitt" on #debian
04:01-!-Texou [~Texou@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.4]
04:03-!-Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has joined #debian
04:03-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #debian #debian-kde #debian-desktop #debian.or.at #security
04:03-!-Texou [~Texou@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:03-!-Texou is "Jean-Philippe MENGUAL" on #debian-meeting #bitlbee #debian-next #debian #debian-es #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-l10n-fr #debian-a11y
04:05-!-sidmo__ [~sidmo@00026de1.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:12-!-thiras [~thiras@78.173.213.162] has joined #debian
04:12-!-thiras is "Ant" on #debian #linode #tami
04:17-!-wompa [~wompa@0001ac92.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:17-!-wompa is "Tomas Heikkilä" on #linux #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian
04:30-!-vicamo [~vicamo@61-220-137-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #debian
04:30-!-vicamo is "You-Sheng Yang" on #debian-kde #debian-dkms #debian-desktop #debian-bluetooth #debian-apt #debian
04:40-!-mode/#debian [+l 405] by debhelper
04:42-!-ee2455 [~ee2455@0001c7c0.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:42-!-ee2455 is "ee2455" on #debian
04:45-!-annadane [~annadane@mtrlpq5302w-lp130-03-70-24-210-160.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:46-!-annadane [~annadane@mtrlpq5302w-lp130-03-70-24-210-160.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #debian
04:46-!-annadane is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
05:03-!-Edhil [~edhil@000266d3.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
05:03-!-Edhil is "One of the last" on #debian
05:05-!-phylophyl [~phylophyl@91-139-148-193.varna.ddns.bulsat.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:08-!-Xeos [~Xeos@84.239.65.119] has joined #debian
05:08-!-Xeos is "realname" on #debian
05:09-!-wompa [~wompa@0001ac92.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
05:23-!-czesmir [~stefan@egp194.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #debian
05:23-!-czesmir is "Stefan" on #debian
05:24-!-staskam [~staskam@22.11.28.78.cable.dyn.petrus.com.pl] has joined #debian
05:24-!-staskam is "realname" on #debian #linux #ubuntu
05:25<Xeos>Hello, I installed Debian in dual-boot but I can not add windows to grub menu. I think my .efi file for windows is on another partition than my debian .efi. Can you tell me what I can do for fix that ? update-grub change nothing
05:37-!-phylophyl [~phylophyl@91-139-148-193.varna.ddns.bulsat.com] has joined #debian
05:37-!-phylophyl is "realname" on #debian-next #debian #freedombox
05:40-!-staskam [~staskam@22.11.28.78.cable.dyn.petrus.com.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:46-!-YuGiOhJCJ [~YuGiOhJCJ@00021b1f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
05:46-!-YuGiOhJCJ is "YuGiOhJCJ" on #oftc @#yugiohjcj #qemu #debian
05:51-!-BCMM [~BCMM@00026736.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
05:51-!-BCMM is "BCMM" on #oftc #linux #debian-kde #debian #debian-next
05:58-!-Dodger78 [~Dodger78@ip5f58d676.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
05:58-!-Dodger78 is "..." on #debian
05:58<Dodger78>hi guys, im on debian buster (arm64) and have problems with unpriviliged LXC for 2 month or so. the container was running in buster before but some update messed it up. it complains about not being able to "chown /dev/pts/3 " and that the container has no controlling console . since im doing unpriviliged stuff, i havent apparmor installed. any1 knows about this problem already ?
06:00-!-mode/#debian [+l 411] by debhelper
06:00-!-wompa [~wompa@0001ac92.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
06:00-!-wompa is "Tomas Heikkilä" on @#linux #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian
06:01<jm_>Xeos: even if you install os-prober?
06:07-!-Texou [~Texou@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:11-!-mendelmunkis [~Moshe@97-116-113-54.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:13-!-snowyfox [~snowyfox@2607:fea8:7a0:3d3::8] has joined #debian
06:13-!-snowyfox is "Snowyfox" on #debian-kde #debian
06:18-!-bolt [~r00t@000182e9.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:19-!-oo_miguel [~oo_miguel@89-72-186-97.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:20-!-bolt [~r00t@000182e9.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
06:20-!-bolt is "-" on #virt #debian-next #debian #sd #oftc #qemu #suckless
06:21-!-Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87.static.drei.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:28-!-mendelmunkis [~Moshe@97-116-113-54.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #debian
06:28-!-mendelmunkis is "realname" on #debian
06:38-!-Xeos [~Xeos@84.239.65.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:40<grove>Dodger78: Buster is still not stable, so you might want to ask in #debian-next (I suppose there are people there still using it)
06:43-!-drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has joined #debian
06:43-!-drzacek is "realname" on #linux-rt #debian-next #debian
06:44-!-milkt [~debian@0002812a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
06:55-!-vicamo [~vicamo@61-220-137-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: vicamo]
06:57-!-Blacker47 [~Blacker47@00014f22.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
06:57-!-Blacker47 is "Blacker47" on #debian-next #debian
06:58-!-staskam [~staskam@mail.centrumnowoczesnosci.org.pl] has joined #debian
06:58-!-staskam is "realname" on #debian #linux #ubuntu
07:05-!-dpkg [~dpkg@dpkg.bot.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: buh bye!]
07:05-!-dpkg [~dpkg@dpkg.bot.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:05-!-dpkg is "apt backup" on #debian
07:20-!-Brigo [~Brigo@249.59.27.77.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com] has joined #debian
07:20-!-Brigo is "realname" on #packaging #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-es #debian
07:21-!-ach [~spo@ipb218f247.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
07:21-!-ach is "KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://kvirc.net/" on #debian
07:23-!-Brigo [~Brigo@249.59.27.77.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:29-!-t3chn0 [~t3chn0@00027171.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:30-!-t3chn0 [~t3chn0@00027171.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:30-!-t3chn0 is "KLOS Staff Member - https://kloshost.online" on #debian #debian-devel-es #debian-es #debian-offtopic #oftc #tor-dev
07:30-!-zyley [~na@00027792.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:30-!-zyley [~na@00027792.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:30-!-zyley is "zylyey" on #debian #debian-next #debian-offtopic #moocows #oftc
07:33-!-snowyfox [~snowyfox@2607:fea8:7a0:3d3::8] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:34-!-Delta-One [~delta@00023074.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:41-!-staskam [~staskam@mail.centrumnowoczesnosci.org.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:51-!-aev [~quassel@dgs154yyyyyyyyyyyyyyt-3.rev.dnainternet.fi] has joined #debian
07:51-!-aev is "Aulis Vainionp\xE4\xE4" on #oftc #tor-project #debian #tor-mobile #moocows #debian-offtopic
07:56-!-YuGiOhJCJ [~YuGiOhJCJ@00021b1f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: YuGiOhJCJ]
07:57-!-jm_ [flier@000125af.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting]
08:00-!-oo_miguel [~oo_miguel@89-72-186-97.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #debian
08:00-!-oo_miguel is "oo_miguel" on #debian #suckless
08:03-!-Dodger78 [~Dodger78@ip5f58d676.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit []
08:06-!-wololoer [~user@00022ff6.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
08:06-!-wololoer is "user" on #qemu #kvm #virt #suckless #openjdk #debian-next #debian
08:08-!-ldnunes [~ldnunes@181.220.83.165] has joined #debian
08:08-!-ldnunes is "realname" on #oftc #openstack-infra #debian-br #qemu #debian
08:15-!-Texou [~Texou@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
08:15-!-Texou is "Jean-Philippe MENGUAL" on #debian #debian-es #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-l10n-fr #debian-a11y
08:21-!-staskam [~staskam@22.11.28.78.cable.dyn.petrus.com.pl] has joined #debian
08:21-!-staskam is "realname" on #debian #linux #ubuntu
08:22-!-clonak [~clonak@00010a9e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:30-!-piper [~piper@00012f3a.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
08:30-!-piper is "Ralph Hokanson" on #debian-offtopic #debian-live #debian-apt #packaging #debian-desktop #debian-kde #debian-next #debian
08:38-!-Seeder [~Seeder@00021624.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
08:38-!-Seeder is "Seeder" on #oftc #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
08:39-!-snowyfox [~snowyfox@CPEac202e0cfd43-CMac202e0cfd40.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #debian
08:39-!-snowyfox is "Snowyfox" on #debian-kde #debian
08:42-!-ldnunes [~ldnunes@181.220.83.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:51-!-ldnunes [~ldnunes@181.220.83.165] has joined #debian
08:51-!-ldnunes is "realname" on #debian #qemu #debian-br #openstack-infra #oftc
09:07-!-semeion [~semeion@0001996c.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
09:07-!-semeion is "semeion" on #help #oftc #lxde #debian-br #debian #bitlbee
09:12-!-Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #debian
09:12-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #debian #debian-kde #debian-desktop #security #debian.or.at
09:12-!-aev [~quassel@dgs154yyyyyyyyyyyyyyt-3.rev.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:18-!-dpalacio [~david@00013d94.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
09:18-!-dpalacio is "dpalacio" on #debian-kde #debian-co #debian-es #debian
09:20-!-romo [~romo@romo.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
09:20-!-romo is "romo" on #debian
09:35-!-Texou [~Texou@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:53-!-hekatei [~hekatei@200116b826d31c00c0d3bb443849ad69.dip.versatel-1u1.de] has joined #debian
09:53-!-hekatei is "none" on #debian
09:54-!-dpanter [~dpanter@0002672e.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
09:54-!-dpanter is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-kde
09:54-!-oschraml [~suchademo@212.2.169.178] has joined #debian
09:54-!-oschraml is "suchademon" on #debian
10:00-!-mode/#debian [+l 418] by debhelper
10:07-!-staskam [~staskam@22.11.28.78.cable.dyn.petrus.com.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:09-!-ldnunes [~ldnunes@181.220.83.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:11-!-aev [~quassel@dgs154yyyyyyyyyyyyyyt-3.rev.dnainternet.fi] has joined #debian
10:11-!-aev is "Aulis Vainionp\xE4\xE4" on #oftc #tor-project #tor-mobile #debian #debian-offtopic #moocows
10:14-!-semeion [~semeion@0001996c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.4]
10:17-!-romo [~romo@romo.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:17-!-dpalacio [~david@00013d94.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
10:18-!-ldnunes [~ldnunes@181.220.83.165] has joined #debian
10:18-!-ldnunes is "realname" on #debian #qemu #debian-br #openstack-infra #oftc
10:27-!-staskam [~staskam@22.11.28.78.cable.dyn.petrus.com.pl] has joined #debian
10:27-!-staskam is "realname" on #debian #linux #ubuntu
10:37-!-Delta-One [~delta@00023074.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
10:37-!-Delta-One is "P.F." on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
10:42-!-jealousmonk [~Leon@143.107.231.30] has joined #debian
10:42-!-jealousmonk is "Leon" on #kernelnewbies #debian-offtopic #debian
10:45-!-jhutchins_wk [~jonathan@00011b69.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
10:45-!-jhutchins_wk is "Jonathan Hutchins" on #oftc #debian
10:47-!-ribe [~ribe@0001bc47.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.6.5 - http://znc.in]
10:47-!-ribe [~ribe@0001bc47.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
10:47-!-ribe is "ribe" on #tor-project #tor-dev #debian-next #debian
10:52-!-MBekhit [~mbekhit@196.221.54.3] has joined #debian
10:52-!-MBekhit is "realname" on #debian
10:55-!-MBekhit [~mbekhit@196.221.54.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:57-!-drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:58-!-ldnunes [~ldnunes@181.220.83.165] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:04-!-ml| [~ml|@00016c5c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:12-!-towo` [~towo@00012f0f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
11:12-!-towo` is "Torsten -towo- Wohlfarth" on #siduction-admin #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian #aptosid
11:15-!-ml| [~ml|@00016c5c.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
11:15-!-ml| is "ml|" on #debian
11:19-!-skitt [~skitt@skitt.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:32-!-sakax [~skx@sakax.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
11:32-!-sakax is "skx" on #tor-project #debian-live #debian-offtopic #debian
11:39-!-jealousmonk [~Leon@143.107.231.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:40-!-thomasross [~thomasros@134.117.249.113] has joined #debian
11:40-!-thomasross is "thomasross" on #debian-next #debian #debian-kde #debian-offtopic
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12:00<user01>im getting a computer today that i plan to wipe win 7 and put debian on today . . . reading a bit, so the first step should be to checkout BIOS boot, format to GPT, create efi partition (@768 MB I guess) and make sure BIOS uses efi...sound about right?
12:03<sakax>use legacy boot with current debian stable (stretch)
12:03<sakax>next stable (buster) installer will allow secure boot
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12:04<zumbi>You either use BIOS or EFI, but not both at the same time
12:05<zumbi>I'd use EFI regardless secure boot (that's an EFI option that can be turned off)
12:05<jhutchins_wk>The only reason "secure boot" exists is to keep people from installing linux on their systems.
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12:07<zumbi>secure boot loads a signed binary, which prevents boot loader binaries from being infected with viruses
12:08<petn-randall>user01: I'd just set your BIOS to "EFI boot only", and then boot from an USB stick with the Debian installer. If you've used Debian in the past you might even want to give buster a spin, which is in deep freeze and will be released in the next few months.
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12:08<zumbi>petn-randall: +!
12:08<jhutchins_wk>zumbi: Yeah, right.
12:08<zumbi>+1 I meant
12:09<user01>petn-randall, yeah i was planning to do buster
12:10<user01>petn-randall, the installer will handle the gpt formatting then? this is my first time trying efi, have only done legacy before
12:10<petn-randall>jhutchins_wk: secure boot allows you to verify the integrity of your boot chain, so it also benefits Linux. Ever since CPUs can have nested virtualization, an attack scenario for malware is to overwrite the boot loader and just boot the real OS in a VM. That way it can eavesdrop on any action, but is undetectable from the OS.
12:11<petn-randall>user01: Yes, it will do that all for you. Though strictly seen EFI and GPT are not related.
12:11<zumbi>last I tried I had to format GPT manually, the installer (parted) did not know about GPT
12:11<user01>petn-randall, ok i thought efi required gpt
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12:13<user01>so step 1 set bios to efi only then have installer handle (buster)
12:16<petn-randall>user01: Yes, legacy BIOS boot is sometimes also called "CSM boot", it's tricky to miss.
12:17<petn-randall>user01: I'd say that's the most tricky part though, the rest should be a smooth sailing.
12:20<user01>petn-randall, ill have to wait here to see the BIOS settings when it arrves, thanks . . . and then in installer it will ask gpt then i add a efi partition during partitioning?
12:21<jhutchins_wk>Secure Boot was developed by Intel under pressure from Microsoft to prevent people from installing alternate operating systems. When the people who ran big datacenters full of Linux machines "explained" things to Intel, they backed down and made it possible to disable it. They then had to come up with a justification for a cover story.
12:22<jhutchins_wk>Originally the only way to get past secure boot was to pay Microsoft for a key. There was no software workaround. Clearly things have evolved since then.
12:23<user01>microsoft contributes a lot of code to the kernel these days, no clue what it does though
12:24<user01>im just an end user
12:24<jhutchins_wk>What other architectures besides x86 have secure boot?
12:24<zumbi>arm
12:24<petn-randall>jhutchins_wk: That's not historically accurate. Besides, arm has also secure boot.
12:25<jhutchins_wk>It's the way I remember it.
12:25<petn-randall>user01: Yes, I haven't used the buster installer yet. I tend upgrade my machines on every release.
12:26<user01>i wonder if i should run bios updates / firmware updates before formatting windows off . . .
12:26<petn-randall>jhutchins_wk: Well, part of the spec says that's it's mandatory to be able to add new keys, so I don't know how that would even make sense with what you said before.
12:27<zumbi>since I upgraded once the computer firmware and broke it, I had to revert it, so now if it works I tend not to touch it, unless I am looking for some interesting update
12:28<user01>ive been successful running updates on firmware / bios in recent years -- or just lucky
12:29<user01>i think create an ms dos boot or something
12:29<user01>havent done it in ages
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12:30<user01>freedos thats it
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12:45<sqrt{not}>user01: I believe debian systems will (at least offer to) update the machine's BIOS, microcode, firmware, as part of regular system maintenance.
12:47<sqrt{not}>user01: My Dell boxen have an option in the BIOS boot menus, to install new BIOS from a regular file on a USB stick -- the downloaded files here have names like: Precision_Tower_3620_2.11.0.exe
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12:52<peter1138>I've never seen anything like that on any Debian system I've run. And that's a lot of them.
12:52<peter1138>microcode is loadable on bootup of course, but that's not writing to nvram.
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12:58<sqrt{not}>peter1138: see fwupd, and flashrom, and intel-microcode.
12:58<peter1138>All stuff not installed by default.
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13:01<sqrt{not}>not required, but depending what is your threat model, maybe useful
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13:40<user01>before i start partitioning i have a 180 GB SSD and a 1 TB sata drive . . . my plan was to put /home /var /swap on 1 TB sata and everything else on SSD (/ with a separate for efi) sound ok?
13:41<user01>someone yesterday said to not allocated 5-10% of SSD so I'll make it 168 GB i guess
13:42<user01>he said it helps for longevity
13:43<jhutchins_wk>user01: So you're just taking random advice off the internet rather than researching it yourself.
13:43<user01>its not random it was from the official debian irc channel
13:44<sarnold>user01: I strongly recommend putting everything on the ssd by default. Use the 1tb for just videos and the like.
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13:44<user01>ok so like a 1TB /media/share/ folder
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13:45<blast007>I'd keep all the stuff required to boot on the same physical disk
13:45<sarnold>yeah, or a /home/user01/Videos or similar
13:45<user01>sarnold, i researched further on the internet and it said to put the stuff that was mostly read on ssd and stuff that was mostly write the sata drive
13:46<sarnold>heh, I also want my writes to go quickly :)
13:47<user01>sarnold, im not sure what that was about to not use allocate 5-10% of SSD yesterday then
13:47<user01>sarnold, sounded like he said it would increase longevity of the drive
13:48<sarnold>user01: that 5-10% unallocated space was about giving the drive's internal wear-leveling more free space to work with. probably the default fstrim cronjob or timer or whatever it is would do the same thing for you just fine.
13:48<jhutchins_wk>user01: There is a lot of obsolete incorrect information out there that applied to SSDs from ten years ago but is no longer relevant.
13:49<blast007>https://www.qnap.com/solution/ssd-extra-overprovisioning/en-us/
13:49<jhutchins_wk>user01: What I've found says that there are no special requirements for current drives, just treat it as a normal drive.
13:50<user01>jhutchins_wk, ok i guess this says to leave some unallocated too: https://www.howtogeek.com/165472/6-things-you-shouldnt-do-with-solid-state-drives/
13:50<user01>so i guess . . . formatted but unallocated?
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13:51<blast007>no, just unallocated
13:51<user01>ok so i was thinking around 7% unallocated then
13:51<sarnold>user01: it's a bit complicated. to make that "unallocated" thing actually work out, you've got to trim that free space first. I don't know off-hand how to do that. but if you make a filesystem on the whole thing and then run fstrim, all the space the filesystem ISN'T using gets trimmed automatically.
13:52<sarnold>user01: feel free to stop reading that page once you get to "Don’t Write Constantly To Them" :)
13:52<user01>sarnold, yeah i ignored that bit
13:53<blast007>https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/product/consumer/magician/ "Make the SSDs perform better and longer (steady-state performance) and extend lifespan of your SSD by reserving free space."
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13:54<sarnold>does magician require windows? or is it a uefi thing?
13:54<blast007>it's a Windows thing
13:55<blast007>from what I can tell it just shrinks your partition
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13:56<blast007>their tool recommends 10%, with supported values between 1 and 12 percent
13:56<user01>blast007, so on a debian install you do the partitioning with trimming before starting an install?
13:56<blast007>I'm unclear if it's any better than just not filling up the disk with data, though
13:57<blast007>at the very least, it forces you to *not* fill up the disk with data
13:57<user01>blast007, well, it says it prevents unnecessary writes
13:57<blast007>overprovisioning does?
13:57<user01>in that thing i was reading yes
13:58<user01>to have the unallocated space
13:58<blast007>I think it's more about giving the SSD controller some extra space to work with so it can better balance the writes across cells
13:58<user01>i didnt know the controller would use unallocated space
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14:00<blast007>the controllers do all sorts of fun stuff now, such as some lower-end drives using a portion of the cells as Single Level Cells to cache writes (as SLC is faster) and then gradually moves that to the MLC or TLC areas.
14:01<blast007>there isn't a direct mapping from the block ID that the drive exposes to the OS and a set of cells on the flash media. the controller abstracts all that and figures out where best to put stuff and when to move data off failing cells, etc.
14:01<jhutchins_wk>I would really expect the firmware to take care of all that and just present a normal drive. Even pre-sata ide drives completely abstracted the hardware.
14:02<jhutchins_wk>blast007: Yeah, what you said.
14:02<blast007>the drive itself will have it's own over-provisioning too
14:02<blast007>extra cells that your OS will never know exist
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14:04<blast007>jhutchins_wk: for clarity, I was specifically meaning the SSD flash controller in the above statement, not the SATA controller on the mobo
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14:11<blast007>I started reading a whitepaper from Samsung, but they had wrong info in the very first sentence.. so.. "Each of the cells inside an SSD that stores one to four bytes has a limited lifespan." Pretty sure it's bits, not bytes.
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14:17<znoteer>I reinstalled Debian to my printer server, then copied over a saved cups.conf and printers.conf. Now, when I try to print, it just prints garbage. Normally when I print it would take several seconds for the document to be converted to a form my printer could use. There was a noticeable delay between when I clicked print and when the printing actually started. Now, it's going straight to the
14:17<znoteer>printer without any delay. What should I look at to debug this?
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14:19<jhutchins_wk>blast007: That's what I was refering to as well.
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14:20<jhutchins_wk>znoteer: Probably revert to the new default config files and then proceed to configure using current drivers and ppds.
14:20<jhutchins_wk>znoteer: It sounds like you're skipping a format conversion step.
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14:22<znoteer>jhutchins_wk: the old system was stretch. The reinstalled system is stretch. Shouldn't I be using the current drives and ppds on both the old and new?
14:23<znoteer>Like, why would that have changed between installs?
14:23<jhutchins_wk>znoteer: Was the old system upgraded from a previous release?
14:24<znoteer>jhutchins_wk: I can't remember 100%. I guess that could be it. Thanks, I'll try to reconfigure. "dpkg-reconfigure cups" to start over
14:24<znoteer>?
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14:27<jhutchins_wk>znoteer: You might need to purge and reinstall.
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14:27<jhutchins_wk>znoteer: Myself I have a brother laser printer that requires a wrapper that's only available in 32b form. It works fine on my upgraded system, but I can't get it to run on a clean install.
14:28<user01>hmmm 4GB of swap space based on 16 GB of ram here without hibernation https://itsfoss.com/swap-size/
14:29<jhutchins_wk>user01: Too much swawp space is very hard to deal with if the system starts using it.
14:31<sarnold>yeah 1-2 gb of swap is probably fine
14:32<user01>hard to imaging it would use up all that ram
14:32<sqrt{not}>"64K should be enough for anyone!"
14:33<user01>for application of the time it probably was
14:34<sarnold>user01: my machine with 128 gigs of ram is still 17 megs into swap. :)
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14:35<supaman>sarnold: how many virtual machines you got?
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14:35<sarnold>supaman: none
14:35<supaman>jikes :-)
14:36<supaman>all that ram used for ... IE tabs? ;-)
14:38<sarnold>I've got an ubuntu archive mirror and unpacked everything on it
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14:42<jhutchins_wk>sarnold: Is it actively swapping that 17 meg, or is it just parked there?
14:43<sarnold>just parked
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16:46<user01>so, do i create a /efi label on the efi formatted partition and mark it bootable?
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16:47<somiaj>Might depend on the partition editor being used. Some may use the old bootable flag for efi partitions, but really in GPT it is a new mark, efi partition.
16:48<somiaj>And this is only if you want to use uefi boot, you can use legacy boot with MBR just fine if you prefer.
16:48<somiaj>user01: also make sure you are using GPT for this, MBR requires some extra 'hacks' to boot it using efi
16:48<user01>somiaj, it didnt ask me during install
16:49<user01>somiaj, im starting by wiping the disks
16:49<somiaj>the debian installer will default to how you boot it. If you boot using legacy, it will use legacy, if you boot using uefi, it will use that.
16:49<user01>somiaj, i booted using uefi
16:49<somiaj>The partition table in the installer should also set thingsup correctly (though I forget the exact flag the installer uses)
16:50<somiaj>then it should create the efi partition for you
16:50<user01>somiaj, ok by default boot flag is on
16:50<user01>somiaj, 768 MB enough for it?
16:50<somiaj>I think the boot flag here is more an artifact of something similar between gtp and mbr, but my details here maybe slightly off.
16:50<somiaj>way more than enough.
16:50<user01>somiaj, does it install kernels here?
16:50<somiaj>my efi partition is currently using 43M
16:51<somiaj>no
16:51<user01>oh so this is not like boot then
16:51<somiaj>kernels are in /boot (and you don't wan't /boot to be vfat due to how debian packages work)
16:51<user01>ok so like 150 MB might be better
16:51<somiaj> /efi is to talk to the firmware, you still need /boot
16:52<somiaj>I have seen people use a vfat to be both /boot and /efi, but this causes a problem with upgrading kernels on debian systems, so I would avoid that (even though it can work in theory)
16:52<user01>ok so 150 MB efi partition bootable flag marked, then the /boot directory doesnt get a boot flag or does?
16:52<somiaj>it done'st need one
16:53<user01>somiaj, ok so that one i can do like 1 GB . . .
16:53<user01>var i think is good 8-9 GB . . .
16:54<somiaj>are you doing encryption or lvm? I don't have a sepeate /boot partition, but mine is only 63M, I would use 80-100Meg per kernel as an estimate, debian likes to keep one kernel back, so 256Meg boot is usually sufficent.
16:54<somiaj>this is getting into personal choice. I personally use only three pratitions, efi, / and /home
16:55<user01>my / on my other systems doesnt run more than 11 GB i dont think without var and home
16:55<somiaj>a lot depends on use case
16:56<user01>home file server and old peoples web browser and word processor
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16:58<user01>somiaj, im not sure how to trim the ssd in setup though
16:58<blast007>"To provide adequate space for storing boot loaders and other files required for booting, and to prevent interoperability issues with other operating systems the [EFI system] partition should be at least 260 MiB. For early and/or buggy UEFI implementations the size of at least 512 MiB might be needed." https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/EFI_system_partition
16:59<user01>blast007, ok thanks will make it 512 MB then thanks
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17:11<makeworld[m]>Testing once again, can this message be seen? Tag me if it can
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17:19<sdk>makeworld[m]: nope :)
17:21<makeworld[m]>Lol
17:21<makeworld[m]>Thanks
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17:42<znoteer>I'm trying to install task-print-server. aptitude appears to have hung after the message "Setting up colord (1.3.3-2)". I've never had aptitude hang on me before. Any suggestions on how to recover? Ctrl-C does not seem to do anything to aptitude
17:43<sarnold>try ps auxw | grep D in another terminal and look for processes that seem hung
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17:46<znoteer>sarnold: nothing turned up as hung with that command
17:46<znoteer>when I run top, I see aptitude appear every once in a while
17:46<sarnold>hmm, dang, that means it'll be a bit more work to figure out what's hung .. try pstree and look for descendents from apt
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17:48<znoteer>sarnold: double dang: I don't have pstree installed, and I can't install it because aptitude is already running
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17:50<sarnold>hah :( oh man..
17:50<znoteer>sarnold: should I "kill -SIGQUIT PID of aptitude"
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17:51<sarnold>no .. it'd be nice to know what process specifically is hung up, and either inspect it, or fix whatever is making it unhappy, or kill *that* process instead
17:52<znoteer>OK
17:52<sarnold>hmm...
17:52*znoteer tries to remain zen and patient
17:52<sarnold>what are the chances that you accidentally hit ^S in this terminal? maybe try ^Q ?
17:54<znoteer>sarnold: HA! you're a genius. I haven't done the ctrl-S thing in so long I forgot about that. Thanks
17:55<sarnold>YAY
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17:59<znoteer>I hit Crtl-C trying to get around this stuck aptitude. The first thing after the "Setting up colord..." was "colord.service is a disabled or a static unit, not starting it" I don't remember that from previous cups installs. Did my use of ctrl-C screw something up?
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18:00<znoteer>I mean the first thing after I hit ctrl-Q
18:01<sarnold>I *think* that's fine.. the apt-cache show colord text says it's got a dbus-activated systemd unit
18:04<znoteer>sarnold: thanks again. I'll continue and see what happens
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19:24<user01>bleh this is annoying, cant uninstall mousepad without also removing xfce4-goodies :P
19:24<Blendie>15
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20:29<samantha->is there a howto somewhere that will tell me how to force grub2 to use a specific uuid for root?
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21:32<m0th3rsup3r10r>hi i have a Brother MFC-J485DW that im trying to setup on USB -- how would I go about this? I see it says driverless printing on the wiki: https://wiki.debian.org/DriverlessPrinting
21:33<m0th3rsup3r10r>or do i just do ppd?
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21:33<m0th3rsup3r10r>i installed task-print-server
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---Logclosed Thu Apr 25 00:00:12 2019