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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-05-16

---Logopened Thu May 16 00:00:42 2019
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03:37-!-Texou is "Jean-Philippe MENGUAL" on #debian #debian-es #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-l10n-fr #debian-a11y
03:39<drzacek>Hello. My debian didn't wanted to boot today, succeeded only with different kernel. How can I diagnose what went wrong?
03:40<jm_>try removing quiet kernel option
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03:41<drzacek>May 16 09:00:30 debian64 kernel: BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at 0000000000000000
03:41<drzacek>don't have quiet
03:42<drzacek>can't poste whole log, it's too big for pastebins
03:42<jm_>paste the part after this message
03:43<drzacek>or can I
03:43<drzacek>there is nothing after that message
03:44<jm_>that looks super confusing
03:46<jm_>something went wrong before that line, but it's ahrd to say what with that output, looks like several things are mixed together
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03:48-!-vicamo is "You-Sheng Yang" on #debian-kde #debian-dkms #debian-desktop #debian-bluetooth #debian-apt #debian
03:48<drzacek>it's a rt kernel I compiled. I often had "Scheduling while atomic" problems, but after second try it usually booted and worked fine. But today? Dead and dead
03:50<jm_>probably best to post to some RT related mailing list then
03:53<drzacek>Another question - I'm trying to make a local apt repository, to update offline machines from external drive. I managed to download the packages I need (didn't wanted full mirror), but updating/upgrading from that local repo fails on target machine
03:53<drzacek>I believe it lacks "Release" files (?) and proper signatures?
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03:55<jm_>have you read ?
03:56<jm_>or apt-offline?
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04:04<drzacek>I don't think apt-offline does what I want
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04:09<ap4lmtree>do any of you use a program that allows you to connect to a ssh server with a file manager viewing the remote system
04:10<drzacek>ap4lmtree, I use mobaXTerm on windows, it has scp panel on the left
04:10<thsnr>ap4lmtree: it is possible that your file manager already supports sshfs or sftp protocols
04:11<jm_>ap4lmtree: sshfs allows you to do that with any file manager
04:11<jm_>mc also supports it withut sshfs
04:12<DusXMT>there's also the ssh protocol handler in GVFS
04:12<DusXMT>Allowing you to connect to ssh shares without needing fuse
04:12<jm_>yeah GVFS based stuff should also work
04:12<DusXMT>(to use it, enter ssh://user@host in the location bar of a gvfs-enabled file manager)
04:13<DusXMT>(or sftp:// ? I can't quite remember, been ages since I've last used it)
04:21<at0m>or on kde, fish://user@hostname
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06:51<GyrosGeier>I need a squeeze VM because of legacy reasons, and while setting one up is possible by pretending it's 2013, this means that the VM is unable to use HTTPS
06:52<GyrosGeier>is there a way to tell apt (from squeeze) that it is okay if the release signing key is expired as long as signatures check out otherwise?
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06:55<themill>--allow-unauthenticated might be needed; I can't remember when other options were added
06:57<jm_>and manpages.d.o doesn't do squeeze :)
06:59<themill>I don't think I've even got any old chroots kicking around any more
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08:02<drzacek>okay, I think I now how a beautiful pendrive .deb repository
08:02<drzacek>only that it still doesn't work
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08:03<drzacek>I can update on target machine - nothing cries about authentication, cause I signed and imported my key too. I was able to install some packages, but it cries about hash sum mismatch on some
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08:14<drzacek>srsly, what am I doing wrong here? I recreated everything with reprepro today, ended with same result as yesterday - hash sum mismatch on those 3 packages. Is there some bug, are those special packages that can't be stored in local repo or am I missing something obvious here?
08:16<duclicsic>could just be a dodgy pendrive corrupting the contents
08:16<DusXMT>drzacek: An obvious check would be to verify what the true checksum of those file is and what it should be
08:16<DusXMT>the sha256sum command can help
08:17<DusXMT>*of those files
08:17<DusXMT>And if it is, then I'd probably try strace to see where it might be getting the wrong checksums from
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08:31<ConnectingMedia>Hello there :) If there's a better channel for this question, let me know. In any case I am currently setting the trigger for a status LED like this: `echo disk-activity > /sys/class/leds/$led/trigger`
08:32<ConnectingMedia>is there a way to make that permanent?
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08:43<GyrosGeier>ConnectingMedia, write it from a boot script or service
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08:44<ConnectingMedia>What do you mean exactly with a boot script GyrosGeier?
08:45<GyrosGeier>you put a file with the echo command somewhere, e.g. in /root/
08:45<GyrosGeier>the first file of that file should be "#! /bin/sh"
08:45*DusXMT would imagine that there would be a kernel command line option to set the trigger
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08:46<GyrosGeier>that is a special magic comment that says how to run this
08:46<GyrosGeier>then, make it executable with chmod +x
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08:46<themill>sysfsutils might be better for it
08:46<GyrosGeier>if that works, you can add a service that starts at boot and calls your script once
08:46<ConnectingMedia>Ah. I see what you mean. I'm aware of that GyrosGeier
08:47<ConnectingMedia>Though that inits that pretty late
08:47<GyrosGeier>yes, with systemd it is really difficult to say "just do this first"
08:47<ConnectingMedia>And I kinda feel like there at least should be a better option/way for that
08:47<DusXMT>GyrosGeier: There is: an initramfs hook
08:47<GyrosGeier>DusXMT, ah, that is useful
08:47<ConnectingMedia>themill do you have any details on that?
08:48<themill>You configure that package
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08:49<ConnectingMedia>DusXMT, do you have any pointers or ideas how I could start looking into the kernel cmd line options for that?
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08:52<ConnectingMedia>themill, thanks! That actually just works
08:53<DusXMT>It appears that sysfs is how they should be accessed and configured, so like themill said :)
08:53<ConnectingMedia>It still takes a little, but if that's the best I can do, tjat's ok
08:54<DusXMT>ConnectingMedia: An initramfs hook might be the fastest
08:54<ConnectingMedia>Like there's almost a second during boot before they start displaying what I want
08:54<DusXMT>Since it would be a script executed even before the init system starts
08:54<ConnectingMedia>Yeah. I'll try that too
08:54<themill>ConnectingMedia: no worries
08:55<ConnectingMedia>I was also checking the kernel source to see if I could configure it for the LEDs my board has
08:55<ConnectingMedia>As I am already compiling a customized kernel
08:56<ConnectingMedia>But I couldn't figure it out
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09:23<drzacek>duclicsic, DusXMT damn it was the pendrive. Went to get external hdd, rsynced again and bam! worked
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09:30<drzacek>apt-get --download X only download X, right? Any way to tell it to download dependencies also?
09:31<themill>drzacek: no, you use apt-offline.
09:31<drzacek>themill, stop already with apt-offline
09:32<themill>You're discovering why reinventing the wheel is fun?
09:32<drzacek>themill, no, but apt-offline is something totally different than what I need
09:33<themill>totally different from working out what packages are needed so that you can install them offline?
09:33<drzacek>got my local repo created succesfully with help of reprepro, only thing that's left is to download dependencies - cause I already have a list of packages that I want to include
09:34<drzacek>sure, tell me then how do I download .deb packages with dependencies (suggested too maybe?) using apt-offline? Even got GUI installed too
09:34<themill>you tell apt-offline to install the package
09:35<drzacek>apt-offline --download [package-name]
09:37<drzacek>apt-offline lacks documentation and is very unintuitive
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09:50<themill>drzacek: apt-offline set --install-packages foo bar
09:51<themill>(oh, plus the bundle name)
09:54<drzacek>what would the "set" mean in this case? I'm a simple man, don't understand why offline tool for X would use totally different subset of commands than X
09:54<themill>it has to create the bundle
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10:30<lorecast162>Hello, I want to use a 32G USB drive to install the complete 64Bit image of debian 9.9, but I have 3 ISOs, how to I put them all on the USB drive?
10:32<DusXMT>While I'm not one to answer the question, I just feel that it's important to point out that the three DVDs contain the entire package collection of the distribution, far more than what's needed for an installation
10:32<DusXMT>(an analogy would be having the entirity of the Google Play store downloaded)
10:33<themill>the images can't be combined really
10:34<lorecast162>So I only need to copy the first ISO then?
10:34<ConnectingMedia>The netinstall iso should do
10:35<lorecast162>So I can't have a fully local install media then?
10:35<lorecast162>It says it needs internet to install
10:35<DusXMT>lorecast162: You can, I do believe that the ISO files are hybrid images, so a simple dd if=file.iso of=/dev/sdX should do
10:36<DusXMT>Although I don't have experience with burning non-netinst images onto USB drives...
10:36<ConnectingMedia>Isn't there also a bluray image that contains all packages
10:36<themill>lorecast162: no, it says that depending on what packages you choose to install, you might need internet access. In practice, everything you're likely to want is on DVD 1
10:36<lorecast162>aw ok, thanks
10:36<ConnectingMedia>And you can combine the ISOs into one. But it's complicated
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10:42*DusXMT actually wonders how well would an iso copied over to a USB drive with dd work as an offline repository, with no changes, just like that
10:43<themill>you can use an iso image on loopback with apt-cdroom
10:44<themill>s/back/device/ 8sigh*
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10:45<ConnectingMedia>DustXMT, it works fine
10:45<ConnectingMedia>At least for CD ISOs
10:46<ConnectingMedia>have been doing just that with the netinstall ISO
10:46<ConnectingMedia>And the package repo on there is usable
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10:47<ConnectingMedia>The only issue is that you need to mount the USB drive and tell apt-cdrom to not remount
10:48<ConnectingMedia>There's a parameter for that. I sadly forgot which
10:48<ConnectingMedia>The man page should tell you though
10:48<ConnectingMedia>Maybe even `--help`
10:51<DusXMT>I think I only really ever used apt-cdrom once... I guess it could be very useful if you had an entire class or office of computers that you had to set up
10:52<themill>I don't think I've used it this century.
10:52<DusXMT>I do have a handful of computers, but they're all of different architectures
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11:03<Sim_>Wow this channel is very quiet. I joined today to ask for some help regarding the Debian site API. Does anyone use and/or develop for the site?
11:03<themill>Sim_: you might need to explain what you're looking for a bit more
11:05<Sim_>Let me give a little background. I'm working on a data analysis project that requires me to track Debian package dependencies. I was hoping to be able to access this information through the API, but the detailed information you can get on individual packages through the API seems limited. Unless I'm missing something?
11:05<themill>you keep saying "the API"
11:06<themill>ah, that was not the website I was expecting you to say
11:06<Sim_>If you go to the page for an individual Debian package, the dependency information is all listed, but not easily extracted. I.e.:
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11:06<Sim_>Is there another API?
11:07<themill>there are many, you didn't say which one
11:07<themill>Sim_: do you need historical data or current data?
11:07*DusXMT thinks it might be easier to parse the indexes stored in repositories
11:07<Sim_>What I would like to do is automatically pull dependency information based on package and version number.
11:08<Sim_>DusXMT - what do you mean?
11:08<themill>And is this for many packages or just a few?
11:08<Sim_>Many packages.
11:08<themill>Data is more easily obtained from the Packages files and Package files from then
11:08<Sim_>In some cases, entire distros
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11:09<DusXMT>Sim_: By that I mean doing what apt does, downloading the information about the package repository and processing that
11:09<themill>I don't think the sources.d.o people will thank you for hammering that machine
11:10<Sim_>I don't think that hammering would be the term for it. I would rather get information for only certain packages that I'm looking at currently rather than trawl the entire website once.
11:10<themill>If you want releases, the, if you want more frequent, then (but once again, don't hammer it)
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11:10<themill>The Packages file is a single download that contains all packages at that time
11:11<Sim_>On which site? or
11:12<themill>any of them.
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11:14<Sim_>This seems not an ideal way to query the database.
11:14<themill>there is no database to query
11:14<Sim_>That shows me information based on release, instead of information based on package/version
11:15<Sim_>Then where does the information from come from?
11:15<themill>that's information about releases
11:15<themill>It would help if you described more fully what you are wanting
11:17<wewwwwwlads>Hello, I am on a machine with a ubuntu wheezy on it and I can't install any packages with apt. uname -r gives me "2.6.32-29-pve". is there any chance anyone could point me to a sources.list file? thanks
11:17<Sim_>Say I search for mongodb (or any package) on It then gives me a list of which releases contain that package, and what version is in that package. If you click on a particular release name, and thus version number, it shows a list of depends/recommends/suggests/enhances, which is clearly the information from a single apt list
11:18<Sim_>This information is clearly stored on Debian's servers somewhere.
11:18<themill>Sim_: you just said you didn't want release based information though
11:18<wewwwwwlads>oh lol i wrote ubuntu oops
11:18<wewwwwwlads>not meant to troll
11:18<Sim_>That's true, I would rather have version based information, like
11:19<Sim_>But this API under is very limited.
11:19<themill>Sim_: there is no API, let's figure out what you actually want.
11:19<themill>Sim_: Are you going to track every weekly upload of a package over years most of which never got released?
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11:20<Sim_>No, because my purpose isn't to track every single package.
11:20<themill>Sim_: e.g. do you really want all of these?
11:21<wewwwwwlads>I am on debian wheezy. uname -r gives me "2.6.32-29-pve". apt keeps spitting 404s. pls help me get apt to find packages :/
11:21<Sim_>You have a good point that most of those weren't released in a distribution, however I'm more concerned with where dependencies change.
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11:21<vezult>How do I disable rp_filter? I want, for now, to *not* have the kernel drop what it thinks are martian packets. How do I do that?
11:21<themill>Sim_: so which do you want?
11:22<vezult>I've followed this guide to set up "reverse tethering" of my android phone:
11:22<themill>Sim_: note also that version trees are not linear.
11:22<vezult>and I am getting messages in dmesg saying: [177073.116594] IPv4: martian source from, on dev tun4
11:22<vezult> is an IP address used by one of the tunnel endpoints
11:23<vezult> is an address on my local lan
11:23<Sim_>What do you mean to say by that?
11:24<vezult>tcpdump shows packets flowing from my phone over the tunnel, but they never appear on any other interfaces
11:24<vezult>which makes me assume that they are getting dropped
11:24<themill>Sim_: security uploads will happen later in time but have older versions
11:25<vezult>I've tried disabling rp_filter (sudo sysctl -w net.ipv4.conf.tun4.rp_filter=0)
11:25<Sim_>And also, in a perfect world there would be some information that could be collapsed by dependency and only provide a new version where dependencies change. Clearly, such a thing does not exist. The only way to produce it would be to grab info from all versions of a package on Debian's server, and then write your own script to collapse by dependencies.
11:25<vezult>on the tunnel interface, on the usb net interface, and on the bridge interface
11:25<vezult>to no avail
11:25<themill>Sim_: if it's *a* package then
11:26<Sim_>I'm missing something... I don't see dependency information on the site you provided.
11:27<themill>Sim_: extracting that from the .deb is probably necessary
11:27<themill>there's a machine-readable output of the index pages too btw
11:27<jhutchins_wk>!sources list
11:27<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb stretch main" "deb stretch/updates main" "deb stretch-updates main". Be sure to run «apt update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <stretch/updates> <stretch-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list".
11:27<Sim_>So I would have to download the .deb file for every version of every package I'm interested in? That sounds even worse on the servers than web scraping!
11:27<jhutchins_wk>wewwwwwlads: ^
11:28<themill>Sim_: that's the only place this information exists
11:28<themill>Sim_: hence saying you'd be doing that if it were for a small number of packages.
11:28<dpkg>Wheezy is the current <oldoldstable> release, Debian 7, released on 2013-05-04: ; security support ended on 2016-04-25. Wheezy is the rubber toy penguin with a red bow tie. See and ask me about <install wheezy> <wheezy release notes> <wheezy->jessie>. Final update <7.11>. Consider upgrading.
11:29<jhutchins_wk>wewwwwwlads: Sorry, you'll want that second message.
11:29<Sim_>Or perhaps it would be better to just grab all the archive sources list a la deb lenny main
11:29<Sim_>... as it says on
11:29<wewwwwwlads>thanks a lot
11:29<wewwwwwlads>i guess ill need to upgrade
11:30<themill>Sim_: so those data are in the Packages file there, but you said you weren't interested in time-based information...
11:30<Sim_>But it does have version number, and dependency info so....
11:31<Sim_>If the information doesn't exist in any other format through the API, that seems to be the most efficient way.
11:31<themill>Sim_: so are you going to fetch the Packages file from every 6 hours?
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11:34<Sim_>I wouldn't think so. I assume dependency information doesn't change that much even between distributions, much less small security updates.
11:35<Sim_>I would probably only pull the apt lists for major and possibly minor releases.
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11:35<themill>so we're back to releases? then use
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11:36<Sim_>It is not clear to me how to navigate I think makes more sense.
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11:37<themill>(I get that you're still exploring what data is available, but posing your research question around either a package-centric or a release-centric investigation seems necessary)
11:37<themill>It's the same file structure to get the Packages file.
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11:39<Sim_>It seems simple... I would prefer package-centric information, but it appears that the only way to get that information is from individual /var/lib/apt/lists. So I have to make a choice to download a set number of these and hope that not too much information gets missed.
11:40<Sim_>In a more perfect world, I could take a package/version name, query the Debian page API like, and all the dependency information would be listed in that JSON.
11:40<Sim_>I don't think it would be giving away too much about my project to say that this makes it very difficult to track upstream CVEs.
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11:41<themill>except you want binary dependencies not source dependencies?
11:41<themill>sources.d.o knows nothing about binary packages at all
11:41<Sim_>But there's no other source of information?
11:41<themill>Only for current packages
11:42<themill>If it's for a limited number of packages, then obtaining the Depends: line from the .deb:control.tar*:control or from Packages is easy enough.
11:43<themill>If you want more then Packages from releases will be better
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11:44<Sim_>When I say limited, I mean in the couple thousands, just not all 65,000 Debian packages..
11:44<themill>If you wanted the data for the source packages build-deps, then it's
11:44<Sim_>So the scope of the problem is limited, but still high work if not automated.
11:44<themill>All these things are easily automatable.
11:45<Sim_>Thank you for that, I did not realize there was another source package information page.
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11:46<themill>that's just the machine readable version of
11:47<Sim_>Indeed I need build-depends, depends, and predepends
11:47<themill>You also need to know, somehow, what versions are fixed...
11:48<Sim_>If I have them in my test image, I usually have a version. I will have to think about how to test them against that source.
11:48<themill>version strings seldom tell you about CVEs being fixed
11:48<themill> might help
11:50<Sim_>That is true. But we are using NVD as a conservative measure. If a CVE has been fixed, that may be a false positive but it still should be tracked.
11:51<themill>I assume you are aware that Debian backports patches.
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11:51<Sim_>However, not everyone updates packages with new patches, for better or usually worse.
11:51<themill>Yes, it just means that you can't look at version strings to know much
11:51<Sim_>Especially if they are concerned about those patches breaking whatever code they've changed.
11:53<Sim_>The problem we are trying to solve is not really a Debian problem, it's a problem with others using the opensource code that Debian provides.
11:54<Sim_>So again, conservativism is key, even if we generate false positives.
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12:01<Sim_>Thank you themill. I appreciate the information.
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13:03<Raiu>Hi! do you know of some tool that can list the status of some services in a tmux panel?
13:06<jmcnaught>Raiu: "watch -n 1 systemctl status foo.service"
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13:09<Raiu>ty, hmmm... do you perhaps know of a way to combine multiple watch?
13:09<Raiu>or im stuck with some bash scripting?
13:10<Raiu>Basicly what im looking for is a simple way to create a service panel in tmux
13:12<jmcnaught>Raiu: how many services are you trying to watch?
13:12<Raiu>10 at most
13:13<Raiu>most likely 5
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13:16<jmcnaught>you might want to check out something like icinga2
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13:21<Raiu>Thank you, that look promising
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13:59<Cuby96>Hello there, i am trying to install debian 9 on an pc with an AMD A10-6700 cpu with integrated graphics, the installation went fine, but when i want to start the OS it keeps saying i need the firmware-amd-graphics, which i installed but still it doesnt work, any suggestions how to fix this?
14:00<DusXMT>What constitutes "doesn't work"?
14:00<DusXMT>Does the machine reboot on its own, does the graphical display not show up at all, or does it perhaps display but is of the wrong resolution and without acceleration?
14:01<Cuby96>it doesnt show up at all, just hitting a black screen
14:02<DusXMT>If you try to switch to a text-mode console with ctrl-alt-f2, does that work, or is the system completely unresponsive?
14:02<Cuby96>will try that now
14:04<rwp>My web search fu seems to imply that the AMD A10-6700 uses the free radeon driver successfully for people but does require firmware-amd-graphics installed.
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14:07<DusXMT>For me, I have a AMD A8-5600K and I had issues with the machine rebooting shortly after enabling acceleration, in my case what helped was disabling dynamic power management
14:07<DusXMT>(by adding radeon.dpm=0 to the kernel command line)
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14:14<Cuby96>so aparantly DusXMT when i want to press that command ctrl alt f2 nothing happens no signal to the monitor when i want to start the os
14:15<DusXMT>Cuby96: In that case, I'd try to see if what you're experiencing is the same problem as I had. Could you reboot the machine, and in grub, add "radeon.dpm=0" to the line that starts with linux and contains the word vmlinuz in it, when pressing e on the entry to "boot debian"?
14:16<Cuby96>ok will try that now
14:16<DusXMT>(afterwards, ctrl-x to boot the newly modified menu entry)
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14:18<Cuby96>so when i am in grub i press e and now i am in that setparams window there at the end that what you put in the parantesis?
14:20<DusXMT>There should be a line that starts with the command "linux" and contains the word vmlinuz within it, eg. in my case linux /vmlinuz-4.9.0-9-amd64 root=UUID=50a5e719-71d8-441c-a80f-07dffcb64d3d ro quiet systemd.show_status=yes
14:20<DusXMT>So at the end of that line
14:21<Cuby96>ah yea i see that line
14:22<DusXMT>(this line specifies the location of the kernel on disk - the piece of software that manages hardware resources and provides features like multitasking, and the parameters that should be passed to it)
14:23<Cuby96>no signal after that modification
14:23<DusXMT>Hmmm, then i'd try the same but with "nomodeset" instead
14:23<Cuby96>okay will do
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14:26<Cuby96>it loaded something but with messages like no ums found n stuff and it loaded something and now its a glitched screen again, will make a pic of it
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14:29<Cuby96>at the top left corner it says "A command list boot"
14:29<Cuby96>and the rest says "is loading"
14:30<Cuby96>this kind of "glitch" occurs even without the firmware-amd-graphics after a fresh install
14:30<DusXMT>Cuby96: Okay, so we know that it's a driver issue. In that case, what I'd try next would be enabling debian-backports and installing a newer kernel, there have been some changes to the radeon codebase. It might help, but at the same time it's also possible that it won't
14:30<DusXMT>Cuby96: Und ich verstehe Deutsch :)
14:31<Cuby96>:) okay
14:32<DusXMT>Cuby96: Hmmm, you said that it says "no ums found", which should be a message from the userspace / from the X server, but it looks like it didn't get much farther than the bootloader?
14:33<Cuby96>yes thats right, it loads something then this glitch occurs
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14:34<DusXMT>Cuby96: Okay, in that case, the "recovery" option from the boot menu (in the advanced menu) should allow you to boot without starting the graphical display (which is what glitches out)
14:34<Cuby96>yes i already entered recovery mode successfully thats the only thing still working thats also how installed the firmware-amd-graphics
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14:35<Cuby96>i will enter recovery mode so what would be the next step to trying out?
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14:35<DusXMT>Cuby96: Adding debian-backports and installing a newer kernel
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14:35<Cuby96>what do i have to do to do this?
14:36<Cuby96>oh lets see
14:36<DusXMT>You'll have to edit /etc/apt/sources.list and add the line 'deb stretch-backports main' to it, or possibly a local mirror like 'deb stretch-backports main'
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14:39<Cuby96>wow now i can't even enter recovery mode, i will add nomodeset to that aswell now maybe it works then
14:39<DusXMT>afterwards, you should be able to do "apt-get update" and "apt-get -t stretch-backports install linux-image-amd64" to install linux 4.19
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14:43<DusXMT>(for me, I had to both update and then disable dpm)
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14:45<Cuby96>so i added it to sources.list and made an update so the next one is the linux-image-amd64 for linux 4.19, but it says linux 4.9.0 does that mean i am doing an downgrade?
14:46<DusXMT>Well, 4.9 is the version that currently ships with Stretch, and 4.19 is what will ship with Buster
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14:47<DusXMT>It should list 'linux-image-4.19.0-0.bpo.4-amd64' as one of the newly installed packages
14:48<Cuby96>yes now i get a message apt-listchanges: neuigkeiten, with a : as marker, how do i skip this?
14:48<DusXMT>the 'q' key
14:49<Cuby96>ok its continuing, something else that needs to be done after that?
14:50<Cuby96>or after that restart and nomodeset or radeon.dpm=0 again?
14:50<DusXMT>Cuby96: I'd try first a normal reboot, then with radeon.dpm=0, and then with nomodeset
14:51<Cuby96>okay im on the way to test them will report
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14:51<DusXMT>good luck!
14:51<Cuby96>thanks lets hope for the best :D
14:51<DusXMT>Yeah, problems with hardware misbehaving are always the worst
14:52<Cuby96>but its weird when i installed debian jessie back then it didnt make mistakes like those
14:52<Cuby96>ok normal boot no signal
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14:54<Cuby96>radeon.dpm=0 no signal
14:55<DusXMT>I just realized that perhaps it uses the amdgpu kernel module instead, so perhaps it's amdgpu.dpm=0
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14:55<Cuby96>i am at the grub should i do amdgpu.dpm=0 or nomodeset now?
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14:55<DusXMT>Perhaps the amdgpu variant first
14:56<Cuby96>okay lets see
14:57<Cuby96>no signal wow, tedious
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14:58<Cuby96>so it says no ums support in radeon module
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14:59<Cuby96>then blackscreen then it gets the same glitched screen with the message at the top right corner: linux 4.19.0 blah is loading...
14:59<Cuby96>this is with nomodeset
14:59<DusXMT>Well, unfortunately, I'll have to get going as I have an exam tomorrow that I should be learning for, but what I'd try next would be looking for clues in log files, possible candidates are /var/log/Xorg.0.log
15:00<DusXMT>hopefully someone else will be able to help you along
15:00<Cuby96>okay thanks anyways DusXMT
15:00<rwp>Thanks DusXMT for helping so much today!
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15:01<Cuby96>so anyone knows how to solve this issue?
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15:04<Cuby96>so the Xorg.0.log doesnt show anything
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15:06<rwp>Graphics problems such as you are having can be very frustrating because the system is hard to impossible to use until it suddenly (hopefully) all works.
15:07<Cuby96>i remember installing debian jessie on this same system wasnt an issue at all but this one is very tedious
15:08<rwp>I don't have a system with your cpu and don't have expertise there but I might suggest alternative things. Have you tried booting a live system boot image? Does that work?
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15:08<Cuby96>didnt tried that out yet, is there a difference between the normal amd version and the live version?
15:09<rwp>I am often frustrated by things where older kernels worked but then they dropped support for hardware that I am using and so newer kernels don't work anymore.
15:09<rwp>What is your "normal" installation version?
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15:10<Cuby96>it says debian 9.9.0 amd64 netinst
15:10<Cuby96>i am now downloading debian live 9.9.0 live gnome
15:10<rwp>That is a good standard normal installation. Good choice.
15:11<rwp>Yes. A "live" installation is different. It starts an X desktop so that you can have a running system without installation. Can also be used to install.
15:12<rwp>An advantage of a live installation (for any of the distros, flavors, architectures) is that it allows one to try it before installation. Allows testing of hardware features before committing.
15:12<Cuby96>ah i see so when i have this version i use rufus to put it on a usb stick is that okay? cause once installed it using unetbootin and i got the message that this software corrupts data so i went to rufus which shouldnt do that things
15:12<Cuby96>ah okay thats nice to know i will remember that
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15:13<sqrt{not}>Cuby96: are you running a gnome version of debian 9.9.0 ?
15:13<rwp>A lot of people advocate for testing a new hardware for compatibility with a live boot before buying it. Most physical brick and morter stores will allow it as a test before purchase.
15:13<Cuby96>weird though as i installed the ubuntu (it was a live version) it worked for the testing but after i installed it didnt work again
15:13<Cuby96>sqrt{not}: yes it was installed using gnome
15:14<rwp>Possibly. Remember that Ubuntu is not Debian and there are differences between the systems.
15:14<Cuby96>when i was prompted what graphical userface i want to install
15:14<Cuby96>ikr i was fustrated that debian didnt work and i tried ubuntu out seeing if that caused those issues aswell but well it did
15:14<sqrt{not}>then one other simple thing to try: instead of the Crtl-Alt-F2 you tried earlier, for a gnome system you should instead try Ctrl-Alt-F3, since c-a-f2 brings you a graphical VT under gnome, but vt3 is text only
15:15<Cuby96>even when there is no signal?
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15:15<sqrt{not}>well, no signal under gnome, but the keyboard should still work, maybe a signal will start in text mode
15:16<Cuby96>i mean i can still try things out as the live version is still downloading rn
15:16<Cuby96>okay will try that
15:16<Cuby96>normal boot or with parameters in the grub?
15:16<sqrt{not}>try normal, or any variant
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15:17<rwp>Also, just an idea, since you are installing a few times, you might try unselecting the desktop. Just install a minimum system. That will install faster for one. But it will install a text only installation.
15:18<rwp>Then if that works you can add a desktop using the working text mode only system.
15:18<Cuby96>yea that could be an idea, sqrt{not} i did the combination but still no signal
15:18<rwp>That should be easier to debug it because you have ability to restart things quickly and to see error messages directly. As opposed to the long arm's-length cycle that I assume you have now.
15:19<Cuby96>yes i will try to install it without graphics now rwp and see if it makes any difference
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15:21<rwp>Hint for later: All of the desktops are installed by installing a "meta" package. task-xfce-desktop or task-gnome-desktop and similar for many task-* meta-packages.
15:21<dpkg>rufus is a tool that can be used to make bootable USB devices under Windows. It is not recommended for use with Debian CD/DVD images, as it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>.
15:21<rwp>The 'tasksel' command is a helper for this and is what is run at installation time that you see from the installer.
15:22<sqrt{not}>Cuby96: ^^^^^^ see above about rufus. netbootin also not recommended
15:22<dpkg>win32diskimager is much more reliable than <unetbootin> for copying ISO images to USB sticks and you can download it from . Adjust the file mask from *.img to *.* if it doesn't show Debian .iso images. See <usb install> and <install debian> for further details.
15:22<rwp>I had not heard of rufus before. And haven't heard mention of unetbootin for ages. Not used normally under GNU/Linux systems.
15:22<Cuby96>well okay then i will make a fresh install on my usb stick and try for the best
15:25<Cuby96>i guess the debian 9.9.0 netinst is just fine or should i wait for the live version to get downloaded and put that version on a usb drive?
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16:01<amcclure>are there any known issues for debian on a MacBookPro14,2?
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17:01<ap4lmtree>what image viewer do you guys use
17:02<ap4lmtree>nomacs , feh, or eog
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17:46<dvs>WTF are those? I've never heard of them.
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17:59<rwp>ap4lmtree, I like 'feh' quite a bit. It's the first one I usually reach for.
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18:05<ml|>ap4lmtree: feh
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18:08<user_Max>How to do something like this: echo {a..z} {A..Z} {0..9} but like this: echo {a..z}{a..z} with {aA0..zZ9}
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18:10<user_Max>aaa... aab... later aaA... aaB later aa0... etc
18:15<rwp>user_Max, Bash specific questions are best in #bash and {...} ranges are a bash-ism. :-)
18:15<rwp>However I recommend avoiding them because they are memory pigs because they expand as real arguments.
18:18<user_Max>I mean if I use: echo {a..z}{A..Z}{0..9} first sign will be from "a" to "z", second sign from "A" to "Z", third sign from "0" to "9", but how to do it all in 1 sign with abcABC0123? sorry for my english :/
18:19<user_Max>I just learning "Extended Brace expansion." from:
18:20<user_Max>and wondering how to do something like this...
18:21<rwp>user_Max, The best way is NOT to do it that way. Since those must expand to real arguments and that causes a combinatorial memory explosion. Use loops.
18:21<rwp>user_Max, Bash questions are best discussed in Freenode's #bash channel too.
18:22<user_Max>rwp, because I thinking about do some animations with it like a generating all signs in console/terminal etc
18:24<user_Max>I know what is loop but don't know what is real arguments, and how it work, need to check it... thank You
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18:40<dpkg>bash is, like, the Bourne Again SHell, and the default Debian shell. Ask me about <bash faq>, <bash pitfalls>, <bbg>, <abs>, <parsing ls>, <bashism>. #bash on and
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18:48<user_Max>jhutchins, thank You, I still reading, hope I will learn something, but I am so stupid with programming :P
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19:07<Cuby96>rwp i fully downloaded and installed the live version it works when i test it out but when i try to install it on my hard drive it doenst work what is wrong?
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19:09<user_Max>Cuby96, what is wrong?
19:10-!-mode/#debian [+l 367] by debhelper
19:11<Cuby96>i still try to install debian 9.9.0 on a pc running on a AMD A10-6700 processor, installing it with graphics, i tried the live version of it everything worked smoothly when i try to install it i constantly get graphical issues and error saying i need to install firmware-amd-graphics which i did but it still doesnt work
19:13<user_Max>Cuby96, are You try with Debian live with non-free drivers?
19:14<Cuby96>i downloaded the debian live iso from the debian page with gnome on it, afaik they dont come with non-free drivers on them so i manually install the drivers via rescue mode
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19:17<user_Max>so on live is ok and You can install from live cd system? later You have problems? or on installing process?
19:19<Cuby96>installing is fine, but after that if i want to boot it it freezes, i just installed the firmware-amd-graphics and will try to boot again see if that helped
19:24<Cuby96>my monitor doesnt get any signal after that, with nomodeset i get the error: no ums support in radeon module
19:25<user_Max>maybe compare packages on live CD and Debian on disk
19:25<user_Max>dpkg -l
19:25<dpkg>Files in package user_max-pr0n: /srv/user_max-pr0n/user_max.jpg
19:27<user_Max>I mean save list of packages/programs on live version and on this installed at first
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19:28<user_Max>maybe live version have something which You don't have after installation, because You say, on live is work...
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19:36<simonpatapon>if i want to pass paraneters to modbprobe at boot, i need to put a file in /etc/modprobe.d/nameofmodule?
19:37<sqrt{not}>Cuby96: there ARE live images with non-free drivers, see
19:37<simonpatapon>like : modprobe uvcvideo quirks=16
19:38<Cuby96>sqrt{not}: okay but why does the live work and the installed version not? thats what i ask myself
19:40<user_Max>Cuby96, compare installed packages on both versions
19:41<user_Max>and I don't have other idea, I am just user...
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19:44<user_Max>maybe this will help:
19:45<ais-admin>Hello all. I have some files that are listed with the '+' in the listing as having extended attributes, i.e. -rwxrwx---+ 1 root users 2001544 Feb 27 14:50 filename - BUT... when I use getfattr filename it returns nothing as if no extended attributes are set. What am I missing?
19:46<Cuby96>well its for ububtu...
19:47<user_Max>Cuby96, Ubuntu is based on Debian...
19:48<sqrt{not}>Cuby96: after you have installed firmware-amd-graphics, what is the output from: dpkg-query -s firmware-amd-graphics | head -10
19:48<Cuby96>sqrt{not}: i guess i have to check that in the recovery mode right?
19:48<sqrt{not}>how did you install the package ?
19:49<Cuby96>via recovery mode only thats the only way to install things
19:49<Cuby96>atm at least
19:49<sarnold>ais-admin: try getfacl instead
19:52<Cuby96>well i cant access the recovery mode anymore wonderful
19:55<Cuby96>ok i will try to install a live non-free onto this pc sqrt{not} which gui should i pick, gnome kde or doesnt it matter at all?
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19:57<sqrt{not}>Cuby96: try to get a non-free netinst image, like:
19:58<Cuby96>ok will try tgat out
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19:58<sqrt{not}>that will include already the firmware-amd-graphics
19:58<ais-admin>thanks sarnold - thats what I was missing
19:59<sarnold>ais-admin: I've faught that one before :) the scars serve as a good reminder :) heh
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20:03<ais-admin>all sorted - thx - now how did those acl's ever get set in the first place? I guess we'll never know...
20:06<sarnold>ais-admin: very good question
20:06<sarnold>ais-admin: eg udev / systemd manages device files with acls, to grant access to devices to the user that might be sitting at the machine
20:07<sarnold>ais-admin: sometimes services need to use acls to do their work, but I can't think of an example off the top of my head :)
20:07<sarnold>ais-admin: if it's "just a file" .. then I have to suspect someone wanted to let normies manage files on a webserver.
20:09<ais-admin>its "just a file" but it lives on a samba server which I built myself to NOT use windows acl's so its a mystery
20:09<sarnold>who knows then..
20:10<ais-admin>yep - guess I'll recheck my samba config
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20:11<ais-admin>samba config is just like I left it - no acl support
20:12<sarnold>weird. if you figure it out I'd be curious to learn what caused them to be added
20:13<sarnold>on the one hand, it might have happened i nthe last few months, so maybe you stand a chance of seeing it again :) on the other hand, if you notice it weeks after it happens, well, it might be really difficult to spot
20:13<ais-admin>rteh disc its on is an ext4 mounted with rw,noatime,errors=remount-ro,data=ordered
20:16<ais-admin>aha tune2fs reveals deult mount options include user_xattr and acl
20:18<ais-admin>guess I'll start checking daily for mystery acl's appearing on files - there's a reason - just have to find it... thx again for the getfacl tip
20:21<sarnold>hrmph. my first guess is there's no specific syscalls just for acls; they are "just" extended attributes..
20:21<sarnold>so trying bcc-tools or perf tools to watch for the syscall might get false positives.. but then very few tools use extended attributes, maybe it wouldn't be so bad to just record all those
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20:30<ais-admin>I'll just cron "getfacl -R -p -s /" every few hours and have tthe results emailed to me
20:31<sarnold>nice :D
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20:51<ais-admin>sarnold - found it - when a file is downloaded via Firefox to a location on the server additional acl's are created. No additional acl's are created when getting the file into the machine in any other way like plain old copying from a winbox or saving a user doc like an .ods or .odt from a winbox to the system. Now that's wierd.
20:52<sarnold>ais-admin: wow. that was fast. nice work :) thanks for reporting back
20:53<ais-admin>no prob...
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21:13<ais-admin>doesnt happen when I download a file using chrome - only firefox
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22:15<dmotd>Hello, I'm running sid (fully up-to-date) and experiencing a new issue with network-manager for connecting to wifi, it successfully uses dhclient to get a lease, logs show a DHCPOFFER, but 40 seconds later it warns 'dhcp4 (wlan0): request timed out', and the transaction never completes. I have to manually run dhclient to make a connection, network-manager just hangs 'Wifi Connecting'. Any ideas?
22:16<dmotd>(I have also 'apt purge network-manager' and reinstalled, but same issue)
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23:20<dmotd>I have answered my own question... for the record there was an old apparmor config file lurking and preventing dhclient interoperation, scrubbed and reboot and everything was fine.
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---Logclosed Fri May 17 00:00:43 2019