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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-05-27

---Logopened Mon May 27 00:00:58 2019
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02:21<oftcnoob>morning there
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02:44<Xinly>waddup
02:44<Xinly>new to debian
02:45<Xinly>anyone on rn?
02:45<somiaj>this is a support channel, usually people only respond when an actual support question is asked
02:45<somiaj>!ask
02:45<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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02:45<Xinly>wassup somiaj
02:46<Xinly>what you tryna do
02:46<somiaj>!chat
02:46<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic, or #moocows on irc.oftc.net or ##chat on irc.freenode.net.
02:46<somiaj>But if you have a support question about debian, just ask
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02:46<Xinly>Oh ok thanks
02:46<Xinly>Thnks for showing the ropes
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06:14<marcus>hi all. i have a question regarding apt-pinning. I have pinned python-cryptography to the backports repository with a priority of 700. When I now do an apt-get upgrade it says that The following packages have been kept back: python-cryptography. apt-cache policy also lists python-cryptography as a candidate.
06:15<GyrosGeier>700 is still below 990
06:16<GyrosGeier>if you have APT::Default-Release set, that release is pinned to 990
06:17<GyrosGeier>the other explanation is that it pulls in another package that only exists as a backport
06:17<marcus>but why does apt-cache policy show the installed package with a prio of 500 then?
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06:18<GyrosGeier>likely even, because unversioned python packages are probably metapackages
06:18<themill>marcus: can you pastebin "apt-cache policy python-cryptography; apt-cache policy"
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06:18<marcus>GyrosGeier, it does not pull another package but it deprecates one. could that cause the behavior? the latest python-cryptography deprecates python-pyasn1
06:19<GyrosGeier>so it considers python-cryptography/stretch-backports, and finds that it needs to install python3-cryptography/stretch-backports, which only has Prio 100 because the backports archive is NotAutomatic: yes and ButAutomaticUpgrades: yes
06:19<GyrosGeier>also possible
06:23<marcus> What i meant is that the python-cryptography package from backports which has a higher pin priority than the base package does not install automatically because it would deprecate the package python-pyasn1 from base.
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06:24<themill>you might need to define "deprecate" (and that output would be useful)
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06:29<GyrosGeier>you mean "Breaks:" or "Conflicts:"?
06:29<GyrosGeier>these are outside the priorities system
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06:30<GyrosGeier>priorities are per-package mostly, the conflict resolver is separate from that and rejects upgrades based on its own logic
06:31<thsnr>if you wish to install a package which would remove existing ones, then you need to use dist-upgrade instead of upgrade. but i would recommend you carefully examine what the conflict resolver decided to do before doing it
06:32<GyrosGeier>true
06:32<GyrosGeier>or aptitude
06:32<themill>all of this is speculation until we see some actual output
06:33<GyrosGeier>the "reject this solution and any that also want to keep this package at the current version" feature is the most useful thing ever.
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07:04<marcus>here are my settings: https://paste.debian.net/plainh/43742aa6
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07:20<jm_>you have two priorities set? one on the repo and one on the package?
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07:23<marcus>yes, isn't that possible jm_ ?
07:24<marcus>it want backports to have a really low prio per default and pin the specific packages to be installed from backports.
07:25<jm_>marcus: backports have low priority by default (100)
07:25<jm_>so you don't need to pin that seaprately
07:29<marcus>ah, okay.
07:30<marcus>you have an idea why the package did not get updated without dist-upgrade or apt-get update $PACKAGENAME?
07:31<jm_>my guess is this 200 http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch-backports/main, but this is such a weird case one would need to know the details of the implementation (or debug it) to be sure
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08:42<limbo>marcus: I think regular apt-get upgrade won't install more packages, but dist-upgrade will. e.g. if dependancies change between versions.
08:57<grummund>What's the right way to prevent deb files from being cached?
08:57<ksk>marcus: man apt-get - take a look at "dist-upgrade".
08:58<grummund>is this ok? - Dir::Cache ""; Dir::Cache::archives "";
08:58<grummund>or this? - Acquire::http {No-Cache=True;};
08:59<ksk>for upgrade it says: "under no circumstances are currently installed packages removed, or packages not already installed retrieved and installed."
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09:01<grummund>or this? - Dpkg::Post-Invoke {"apt-get clean";};
09:06<ksk>grummund: these questions all come down to: what are you really tryin to do?
09:06<ksk>not sure what the first does, tough.
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09:07<ksk>like, if apt has an update pending, it needs a) to download it b) to install it. so it will kind of like always cache a little bit of stuff.
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09:20<grove>grummund: Mirrors may be seen as caches, you really don't want to interfere with that, but depending on your setup there might be several places where packages are cached, so ksk
09:21<grove>+'s question is quite valid: What are you really trying to do?
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12:09<grummund>ksk, grove: question was "What's the Right Way to prevent deb files from being cached?"
12:10<grummund>that is, not to end up with /var/cache/apt wasting space over time.
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12:11<grummund>the examples were random answers plucked from the internet.
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12:21*grummund gonna be afk for a while again, sorry :-/
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12:31<grove>grummund: We didn't ask you to repeat your question, we asked what you were trying to do - I even wrote that packages might be cached in multiple locations, making your question unclear. If the answer is to "Stop /var/cache/apt/ from growing", my first suggestion would be to put more diskspace in the machine, under usual circumstances that directory takes up so little space (on this laptop it ...
12:31<grove>... uses 282M, and I've never cleaned it) that other things might encounter problems if that is really an issue. My second suggestion would be to make a cron-job (or nowadays more likely a systemd timer) that runs `apt-get autoclean` regularly. If you absolutely want to delete the downloaded packages right after installation, I guess something like your last option would be the way to go, but ...
12:31<grove>... I've used Dpkg::Post-Invoke.
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14:21<simonpatapon>hi, maybe more of a gnome question
14:22<simonpatapon>I have an active top left corner to show activities
14:22<simonpatapon>can I have active corners on each screens?
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14:39<jmcnaught>simonpatapon: you might be able to do what you want with an extension. If you can't find one in Tweak Tool try looking on https://extensions.gnome.org/
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14:58<omium64>Hello
14:58<omium64>I have some questions
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14:59<amacater>!ask
14:59<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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15:00<omium64>Okay so how much does the lack of security updates in Sid impact the end desktop user who knows what they're doing compared to say Arch Linux or the like
15:01<omium64>Is Sid any less secure than using Arch Linux?
15:02<omium64>Again, I'm speaking in terms of end user on the desktop, not something like a Server
15:02<jmcnaught>best to ask in #debian-next, this is the stable support channel
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18:26<quadrat>Hey, is there any fix for chromium, as videos above 480p are corrupted on yt
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19:25<grummund>grove: thanks for trying.
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23:03-!-strelnikov is "strelnikov/stalin" on #debian #moocows #tor-bots #tor-dev #tor-project
23:07-!-omium64 [~oftc-webi@pool-96-230-111-109.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
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23:08<omium64>What is the most stable kernel to insall from backports that is above 4.15
23:08<jmcnaught>omium64: stretch-backports has 4.19, nothing else
23:09<omium64>which one do i install
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23:10<jmcnaught>stick with the 4.9 kernel that comes with stretch unless you need support for newer hardware or a new feature that is in 4.19
23:11<omium64>I have an i7-4970k and I'm not sure the 4.9 kernel can use it
23:12<somiaj>you should install the meta package linux-image-amd64 (for amd64) from stretch-backports, and that way you will constntally keep the most current backport kernel. This won't uninstall older kernels, but it will ensure you keep up with security updates from newer kernels.
23:13<somiaj>I think the 4.9 kernel would work fine on that chipset. Though maybe the video driver (if integrated) or other hardware won't
23:13<omium64>Yes I'm forced to use my integrated GFX because my video GPU is taken my QEMU-KVM
23:13<omium64>by*
23:14<omium64>How can I be sure that Debian Backports isn't trying to break into my machine and steal my data?
23:14<somiaj>the same way you do to ensure that about debian.
23:15<omium64>?
23:15<somiaj>Only debian developers can upload to debian-backports (so you have the same trust chain as debian), and you have access to both the source code and I think backports also supports reproducible builds
23:17<omium64>Okay thank you so much
23:17<omium64>I could use Debian 9.9 till EOL in theory with kernel 4.19
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23:17<Shamancito>hi
23:18<omium64>hi
23:18<Shamancito>I am a newcomer
23:18<somiaj>Yup, stretch-backports won't ever see a newer kernel than 4.19, and security fixes will should be backported from buster for about a year after busters release.
23:18<somiaj>unforntually if you want stable longer than that (the lts version), only the stock 4.9 kernel gets security support for thaty.
23:19<somiaj>Shamancito: if you have a question about debian, just ask.
23:19<omium64>Oh
23:19<omium64>How long does backports get security updates
23:19<Shamancito>i just installed debian
23:19<somiaj>there is no exact policy, it is up to the matainer/devloper of the packages. But the kernels are one that gets active support, because a kernel is a common thing to need backported.
23:19<Shamancito>im quite happy with it
23:20<Shamancito>I have an issue I havent been able to solve
23:20<omium64>Is there a general estimate?
23:20<somiaj>but debian stretch is only offically supported for about a year after buster's release. AFter that the LTS team takes over and might give another 2-5 years of support for server side stuff, but only for stock debian packages (so no backports for this)
23:20<omium64>Oh ok
23:20<omium64>So I have one year?
23:21<somiaj>for offical support from the security team yes. Backports don't get this support, but the kernel team is usually quite good, and I would expect any major security exploit on the kernel to be updated in backports during that year
23:21<Shamancito>the sleep / hybernate mode in laptops with Nvidia
23:21<Shamancito>does not seem to work
23:21<somiaj>Shamancito: what doens't work, it doesn't goto sleep, or it has trouble waking back up?
23:21<Shamancito>the screen doesnt show up again
23:22<Shamancito>yes it doesnt wake up
23:22<somiaj>Shamancito: have you debuged that this is the nvidia driver (like tried without the nvidia driver and it works just fine)?
23:22<Shamancito>ok
23:23<Shamancito>i feared that answer
23:23<Shamancito>:)
23:23<omium64>Did you make a Swap
23:23<omium64>Hibernate and Sleep only works if you've made a 4+ GB swap partition
23:23<somiaj>well it would help if you can track down if the nvidia driver is causing the issue, or if it is something else. There should also be logs you can look at. But figuring out why a laptop won't wake from suspend can take some digging/testing.
23:24<Shamancito>I just installed default configuration
23:25<omium64>How much RAM do you have
23:25<omium64>Debian by default will make as much SWAP as you have ram
23:25<Shamancito>3.7 Gb
23:25<omium64>so if you have less than 4
23:25<omium64>yes
23:25<omium64>So you probably did not get a big enough swap
23:25<omium64>Boot into a live CD and increase the Swap to 5GB
23:25<omium64>and hibernate will work
23:26<somiaj>it will still work unless they are using more than 3.7gigs of ram during the test. Also I guess to me it wasn't clear if it was suspend (memeory) or hibernate (disk)
23:26<Shamancito>with USB installation can I modify the partition ?
23:27<omium64>Yes
23:27<omium64>When you boot into the Live environment
23:27<omium64>Not the installer
23:27<omium64>You can use any Live CD
23:27<Shamancito>ok
23:27<omium64>I recommend Ubuntu Live
23:27<Shamancito>wow didnt know that
23:27<omium64>All you need is something with GPARTED on the livecd
23:28<omium64>and then you can just resize partitions on ur main drive from the USB
23:28<Shamancito>awesome !!
23:28<omium64>try it out n let us know how it goes
23:28-!-Arrowmaster [~arrow@0001713f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:28<Shamancito>:) sure
23:30<omium64>I think Debian is the 1980s Apple of the Linux world
23:31<Shamancito>what do you mean ?
23:32-!-tomg [tomg@64-7-151-90.border7-dynamic.dsl.sentex.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:32<omium64>In the 1980s, apple had driven a lot of marketing of the message that they're "anti-big brother" and anti corporation in genral (ironic) back when they actually promoted UNIX design
23:32<omium64>and debian shares the similarity of maintaining a closed off eco system
23:33<omium64>unlike apple debian never had a wrong turn lol
23:34<Shamancito>so u think Debian is not that free software and open source ?
23:34<omium64>Of course it is
23:34<Shamancito>and is just marketing
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23:35<Shamancito>I changed to debian from windows recently
23:35<omium64>Damn that's a leap
23:35<omium64>How are you holding up lol
23:36<Shamancito>im alright
23:36<omium64>I tried going to debian right away from windows and failed lol
23:36<Shamancito>i had some experience with ubuntu before
23:36<Shamancito>so i knew i was for a ride :)
23:36<omium64>welcome aboard, debian is cool
23:36<Shamancito>but i feel much better without all the crapy software in windows
23:36<omium64>Red Arch
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23:37<Shamancito>at least i can struggle to find solutions
23:37<Shamancito>and learn something on the way
23:38<Shamancito>in windows u are stuck with win explorer in your system with 1 gb less
23:41<Shamancito>thanks omium64 !!!
23:42<Shamancito>are u a developer for debian ?
23:42-!-Arrowmaster [~arrow@0001713f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:44<omium64>No
23:44<omium64>I am a user
23:46<Shamancito>do u know how to join one of the projects ?
23:47-!-dpalacio [~david@00013d94.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
23:48<somiaj>https://www.debian.org/intro/help -- might start there
23:48<somiaj>one often just starts with being a user, and submitting good bug reports.
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23:50-!-b4udv8 is "Don Harrison" on #debian
23:53<omium64>Use Unstable and try to break it
23:53<omium64>And then send reports about it
23:53<omium64>Boom. Developer.
23:59<Shamancito>hahahhaa
23:59<Shamancito>I dont want to break it
---Logclosed Tue May 28 00:00:07 2019