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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-05-30

---Logopened Thu May 30 00:00:02 2019
00:00<twb>That's just a draft
00:00<twb>This isn't in prod yet
00:01<sarnold>even better :) staging :)
00:02<twb>I was interested in dracut because OOTB with systemd+initramfs-tools you never get a "zfs export"
00:03<twb>But dracut's ramdisks aren't rebuilt when they should be (missing triggers), and they are sensitive to changes to non-ramdisk programs (e.g. molly-guard)
00:04<twb>http://ix.io/1KrQ (not working properly yet)
00:07<sarnold>hmm, that's surprising..
00:08<twb>The general problem is "if / requires more teardown than mount -oro, Debian doesn't do it"
00:08<twb>In most setups it's not really noticable
00:08<twb>In ZFS's case, the only real implication is that hostid changes won't make it into the pool
00:09<twb>Like if you have a pool of blades sharing iSCSI disks for their ZFS pool or something
00:10<twb>There's a separate problem where systemd will always log a scary-looking message if /var/log/journal exists *and* /var or /var/log or /var/log/journal is a dedicated filesystem. But it's *probably* harmless.
00:11<sarnold>"mostly harmless" :D
00:15<twb>The issue is basically that journald doesn't stop, but it also doesn't pivot back into /run during shutdown, so their equivalent of "umount -a" fails for journald's write location
00:16<twb>"normal" people apparently store /var/log on /, so they don't notice because systemd's "umount -a" silently skips / as a special case
00:17<sarnold>oh! well, now it makes perfect sense :) thanks for the explanation
00:17<twb>(Keeping /var/log separate is important for DOS mitigation, because an attacker can usually find SOME way to generate log spam, and most daemons can't cope with / being 100% full)
00:17<sarnold>heh, almost nothing copes with 100% full..
00:17<sarnold>and there's usually *something* writing to /var/log with root privs so goodbye reserve
00:19<twb>squid won't start if /var/log is full
00:20<twb>And there's another daemon --- can't remember which one --- which *ALWAYS* checks if it can write to its default log location, *before* it reads its config file to see where you have moved its logs to
00:21<sarnold>hahahahahaha
00:21<twb>So even if you're doing frobozzd with log_file=/dev/log, it won't start unless /var/log/frobozzd exists
00:21<sarnold>oh man.
00:21<twb>I had to RTFS *hard* to discover that, because the error message was misleading
00:21<sarnold>just in case it can't read the config and wants to write a log about it? :)
00:21<twb>sarnold: just because the bringup code was in a stupid order
00:22<sarnold>I'm going to guess someone at some point added new features "the easy way"
00:22<twb>I think it was probably charybdis, the Freenode's old ircd
00:22<sarnold>I've never read irc code I liked.
00:23<twb>Very often I wonder if society would be better off if we only had 1% of the code, but it was all good code
00:24<twb>Like, UN peacekeepers would arrest people who were like "hey here's $8/hr to write my new ecommerce website in PHP5 and MariaDB"
00:24<sarnold>"oh wow I got an internship! for exposure!"
00:28<twb>Is "Intel QAT" basically just some extra x86_64 opcodes for SHA-2, like AES-NI is for AES?
00:29<sarnold>you know I've never figured out what exactly it is
00:30<sarnold>this page seems to suggest that you can buy them as add-on adaptors of some sort https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/intel-quick-assist-technology-overview.html
00:30<sarnold>but the target of the link looks like it's been repurposed or destroyed or something
00:31<sarnold>maybe it's also smart NIC units? intel *really* sucks at saying what something *is* sometimes..
00:32<twb>I found one page suggesting its a standardized interface to an FPGA
00:32<twb>I guess Xeon CPUs have FPGAs in them now?
00:33<sarnold>ohhhhh my. that'd be an awesome feature, if available to free OSes too :)
00:34<twb>http://ix.io/1Ks0 from menuconfig in zfs
00:34<twb>How do I tell if my supermicro server has QAT hardware inside it...
00:35<sarnold>HEY! that's got *useful* links
00:35-!-jm_ [flier@000125af.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
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00:35<sarnold>ths silly slide https://01.org/sites/default/files/downloads/intelr-quickassist-technology/qatquickstartguide.pdf .. ""For more details on Intel® QuickAssistAdapter 8950 Intel PCIeExpress cards visi"
00:36<sarnold>guessing, based on this, it might show up in lspci
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00:37-!-ttelford is "Troy Telford" on #debian-voip #debian-next #debian #debian-ipv6
00:39<twb>model name : Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2609 v2 @ 2.50GHz
00:39<sarnold>twb: page seven of https://01.org/sites/default/files/downloads/intelr-quickassist-technology/337020-001qatwcontaineranddocker.pdf has a table of reference docs, and *those* describe "communication chipsets"
00:39<twb>I'll just look it up on ark
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00:40<twb>Grr, https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/75787/intel-xeon-processor-e5-2609-v2-10m-cache-2-50-ghz.html doesn't say anything like "QuickAssist : No"
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00:45<twb>For comparison: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/193690/intel-xeon-d-1623n-processor-6m-cache-2-40ghz.html
00:45<twb>So yeah - no sexy for twb
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00:51<sarnold>twb: bummer. I thought qat predated your cpu :(
00:52<twb>me too
00:53<twb>I delegated further investigation to our human-talking human
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02:18<badrash>I have a problem with kmail it finds the settings for Outlook mail but wont download any inbox mail it will get the junk mail folder.
02:21<badrash>It hasnt worked since I installed Stretch 9.9 Aol and Gmail work fine.
02:22<twb>badrash: where does your mail "live"? Is it on a remote server?
02:23<badrash>Outlook.com
02:23<badrash>Microsoft Outlook
02:23<twb>Ah OK. So presumably that is imaps://mail.outlook.com and smtp://mail.outlook.com:587
02:24<twb>I was confused because originally "Outlook" was a local application
02:25<badrash>Np
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02:27<badrash>Thunderbird downloads fine it finds the settings for it self Kmail to. I had the same install on a older computer and all worked well
02:27<twb>badrash: so you have got kmail *trying* to talk to imaps://mail.outlook.com? It can "see" all your folders, but can't see any mail in them?
02:28<badrash>It shows and can download the junk mail folder but no mail from the indox
02:28<badrash>Sorry Inbox
02:28<twb>Can you create a new message in the junk folder?
02:28<badrash>I dont know
02:30<ach>should i blow up this
02:30<badrash>Blow up this?
02:31<ach>[08:04:39] <@spork> Windows is a lot more expensive to run than Linux, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer has finally confessed. Despite Redmond's heroic efforts to defeat common knowledge with elaborately-rigged total cost of ownership 'studies', innuendo, FUD and outright distortions, the rhetorical power of common experience has become too powerful, even for a marketing behemoth like MS.
02:31<ach>^5 -1
02:31<ach>>.>
02:31<badrash>I just put the account back
02:32<badrash>I just got windows 10 it came on this pc
02:32<badrash>I'm not impressed it's the worst windows
02:33<ach>like lean back just chill
02:33<twb>At least it has kerberos and verified boot
02:35<badrash>It took 2 gigs to update and it creeps
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02:39<ach>!reasons
02:39<ach>!reason
02:39<dpkg>I say so!, or "because I said so"
02:40<mendelmunkis>ach: you know until now I thought you where a dpkg calling bot :P
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02:52<badrash>I have tried imap and pop
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03:12<jakethedog>hi twb. I have made a backup of my vps. (debian buster) before I reboot and find that it just won't boot up again, is there anything I can do while the system is running? it is now saying the disk is read-only. seems pretty much completely corrupted from where i am sitting
03:13<twb>jakethedog: I think it's hosed
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03:13<twb>jakethedog: if you have the data backed up, just start over with a fresh VPS instance
03:16<jakethedog>any ideas how this could happen?
03:16<twb>probably the VPS operator screwed up
03:16<twb>That bcachefs bug sarnold mentioned is as good a culprit as any
03:16<jakethedog>vps provider is online.net - they seem professional
03:17<twb>jakethedog: they used a professional-looking font on their website? ;-)
03:17<jakethedog>convinced me, i guess...
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05:06<linux77>hello grat guys, very thanks for these support and this serious work
05:06<KamikaZze>Hello everyone! Guys, does someone knows how to contact Debian's repo maintainers? I'm failing to fetch a couple of packages from Debian's own repo. It's python3-cryptography_1.7.1-3_amd64.deb and python3-pip_9.0.1-2_all.deb. I've looked on the mirror and it's really absent from there, but there is ones with +deb9u1 suffix in the name. Seems like Debian team has renamed the packages (or removed some of them) but hasn't updated the repo's index yet.
05:06<linux77>here is time to say good morning
05:07<abrotman>KamikaZze: run apt-get update, try again
05:07<KamikaZze>Sure, will do
05:07<abrotman>judd: versions python3-pip
05:07<judd>Package: python3-pip on amd64 -- jessie: 1.5.6-5; stretch: 9.0.1-2+deb9u1; buster: 18.1-5; sid: 18.1-5
05:09<KamikaZze>Nope, still the same issue
05:09<KamikaZze>It looks like this
05:09<KamikaZze>11:57:41 The following NEW packages will be installed: 11:57:41 libpython3-dev libpython3.5 libpython3.5-dev python3-cffi-backend 11:57:41 python3-crypto python3-cryptography python3-dbus python3-dev python3-gi 11:57:41 python3-idna python3-keyring python3-keyrings.alt python3-pip python3-pyasn1 11:57:41 python3-secretstorage python3-setuptools python3-six python3-wheel 11:57:41 python3-xdg python3.5-dev shunit2 11:57:41 0 upgraded, 21 newly i
05:09<KamikaZze>Oh sorry
05:10<abrotman>?
05:10<KamikaZze>Formatting
05:10<abrotman>KamikaZze: show us your sources.list
05:10<KamikaZze>So it looks like the other packages are pulled with proper suffix name
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05:15<KamikaZze>Damn, can't access it right now. It's happening on Jenkins slave and seems like I lack the permissions to ssh to it as root.
05:16<duclicsic>it should be readable by a normal user
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05:17<KamikaZze>Yes, but in ours env only root could ssh to slaves :)
05:17<KamikaZze>Could someone with Debian 9 just do apt-get update and check which package versions it will show?
05:17<KamikaZze>Just want to check if it's on repo or ours side. If on ours I'll just pass it to ours UNIX team
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05:36<abrotman>he ran away
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06:20<twb>Blacker47 in #debian-til says they can't join #debian because "Cannot join #debian (User limit reached)"
06:20<twb>Any ops awake that can sanity-check that? They said they tried several times over a 10min window, and failed every time
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06:24<jm_>hold on
06:25-!-mode/#debian [+o jm_] by ChanServ
06:25-!-mode/#debian [+l 366] by jm_
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06:26-!-mode/#debian [-o jm_] by jm_
06:26<twb>jm_: thanks
06:26<jm_>np
06:26<twb>whatever bot normally manages that probably needs to be restarted, too
06:27<Blacker47>thanks.
06:28<jm_>debhelper, and it's here - don't think I can handle that part
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06:32<abrotman>debhelper: do someting!
06:35<twb>abrotman: does it work better if you spell it right?
06:35<abrotman>no
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06:35<abrotman>Looks like the bot cycled around 0030, and hasn't altered the channel limit since then
06:36<twb>logrotate.service says "# no ProtectHome for userdir logs"
06:36<twb>Does it read from every user's ~/.config/logrotate.conf or something
06:38<jm_>it's a .service now?
06:38<twb>yeppers
06:38<twb>and it ionices itself by default
06:39<twb>(To be fair, this is actually in #d-next)
06:39<jm_>ahh so it doesn't depend on cron anymore
06:39<twb>incidentally, systemd-cron is A Thing (but third-party to systemd)
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06:52<twb>re my logrotate question, I *think* they are actually just concerned with stupid people who do, like
06:52<twb> /home/alice/Desktop/python-virtualenv/mydaemon/bin/mydaemon
06:52<twb>...and have that logging into /home/alice/Desktop/python-virtualenv/mydaemon/log
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14:22<Blacker47>!ops join limit bot is not working - people are unable to join
14:22<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: blacker47 complains about a problem (see above)
14:25<dwfreed>knownish issue (the relevant person has been pinged)
14:27<sarnold>does the bot just need to be opped?
14:32<Blacker47>i don't know what bot it is exactly but atm the limit = people in channel. short solution coult be to set the limit up...
14:32<Blacker47>*could
14:33<sarnold>or take it off entirely; I haven't actually seen a floodjoin attack in years
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15:07<stapler>o/
15:08<stapler>Hello folks, is this the right room to speak to someone about locating a sponsor?
15:10<jmcnaught>stapler: do you mean a sponsor for a package upload? I think you want #debian-mentors
15:11<stapler>Thank you, I will go there now
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15:26<somiaj>stapler: also read mentors.debian.net
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15:27<stapler>Thanks, that links to the guide I'm following. Currently in the 'patience' stage between an ITP being submitted and getting a confirmation that it has been received. An email was mentioned, I think, but I've not received one.
15:28-!-mode/#debian [+o debhelper] by ChanServ
15:28<stapler>Step 3, here: https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers
15:29-!-mode/#debian [+l 367] by ChanServ
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15:30<dwfreed>sarnold: congrats, you fixed it
15:30<sarnold>sheesh :)
15:31<dwfreed>I mean, I did the actual commands, but it was your comment that made me notice debhelper wasn't opped
15:32<sarnold>dwfreed: hah, nice. I figured teh bot could probably sort thhatout on its own..
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15:33<somiaj>stapler: That stage can take a while, though sometimes people in #debian-mentors will at least look at your package and give initial feedback.
15:35<stapler>Im curious about that step, the ITP voices my intent to create a package, but once I'm done reading this short novel on debian policy and create the package, how would I share that with a prospective mentor? Upload to our official github and share the link when someone shows interest?
15:37<somiaj>stapler: I only vagually know this, but I think you'll have better luck if you actually create a package (this might depend on the package and how it integrates into the debian ecosystem), and then turn it into a request for a sponsor. This way they have a package they can review and look at.
15:37<somiaj>though it might depend a lot on the package, is it new, etc.
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15:38<stapler>Thanks, I had a feeling there was some nuance I was missing.
15:38<stapler>The package is new
15:38<somiaj>If it is a package that is mostly standalone and not in debian or hooked to some debian team (such as python), having a packge to start with can help out.
15:39<stapler>I'll create the package and return when I've got something to share
15:39<somiaj>have you been pointed at the new matainers guide?
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15:41<stapler>I located it before this expedition, if you mean this https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/
15:41<somiaj>I think that is it, lets double check the bot
15:41<stapler>It is listed on the current step (3) here https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers
15:41<somiaj>!nmg
15:41<dpkg>The packaging tutorial (http://deb.li/QYyI) and the New Maintainer's Guide (http://deb.li/3DiDA) are good places to start learning about Debian packaging. You should also ask me about <devref> and <policy> to understand how packages should be maintained and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <best practices> <build without helper>. http://www.debian.org/devel/
15:42<somiaj>but it looks like you have done your research, so I would start with packging it. You may find #debian-mentors or #packaging helpful if you run into any snags in your creation.
15:44<jhutchins_wk>Is there a mailing list?
15:44<somiaj>for debian-mentors, yes
15:44<somiaj>https://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/
15:45<jhutchins_wk>Those are often much more useful in package development because they're independent of local time and workload.
15:45<cHawk>If I have a kernel-bug running debian, do I report it to debian or upstream?
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15:46<somiaj>cHawk: what kernel and version of debian? I would start with reporting it with debian. The kernel team is good at forwarding it upstream if it is a upstream issue vs debian. (Debian kernls do contain a fair number of patches)
15:47<cHawk>somiaj, buster and 4.19 from testing and same problem on 5.0 on experimental and actually also happens on ubuntu live cd
15:48<somiaj>cHawk: Yea I would report it. Note buster is still #debian-next.
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15:48<somiaj>cHawk: it could help to verify it also affects sid, but since buster is in the last part of the freeze, I'd report it soon (also double check it hasn't been reported first)
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15:49<cHawk>somiaj, sid and buster version for linux-image-amd64 is identical
15:53<cHawk>I will compile as much info as possible and make a bugreport
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15:57<richardwhiuk>Is there a known problem with jessie-updates? I'm geting: "Failed to fetch http://deb.debian.org/debian/dists/jessie-updates/InRelease Unable to find expected entry 'main/binary-amd64/Packages' in Release file (Wrong sources.list entry or malformed file)" trying to pull a package - Full output at http://codepad.org/kyDkJOdH - Any ideas?
15:57<jmcnaught>!jessie-updates
15:57<dpkg>jessie-updates was a suite providing updates to some packages (from <proposed-updates>) prior to a <point release>. All packages from jessie-updates were included in point releases. https://wiki.debian.org/StableUpdates . Not to be confused with <jessie/updates> which is for <security> updates. jessie-updates has been unsupported since 2018-05-17.
15:58<jmcnaught>richardwhiuk: basically it doesn't exist anymore
15:58<somiaj>part of running oldstable, there are no more point release after support ends (though LTS still provides some limited support via jessie/updates)
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16:14<jhutchins_wk>cHawk: reports to upstream carry more weight if they've been triaged by the Debian team.
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18:37-!-p2hc is "Paulo Henrique" on #debian-offtopic #debian
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18:41-!-nunwan [~nunwan@nil57-1-78-235-124-165.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
18:41-!-nunwan is "nunwan" on #debian
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18:48<Blendie>3/
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19:10-!-mode/#debian [+l 367] by debhelper
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19:13-!-kcunac is "kcunac" on #debian-live #debian
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19:22-!-Brainium is "Brainium" on #tor-dev #debian-br #debian-kde #debian
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19:25-!-dvs is "realname" on #debian
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19:43-!-torify is "torify" on #debian #guardianproject #oftc #tor-dev #tor-project
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20:31-!-Texou is "Jean-Philippe MENGUAL" on #debian-meeting #bitlbee #debian-next #debian #debian-es #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-l10n-fr #debian-a11y
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21:21-!-handsome_feng is "realname" on #debian #debian-zh
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21:30-!-mode/#debian [+l 361] by debhelper
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21:41-!-mendelmunkis is "realname" on #debian
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21:47-!-}ls{ is "nobody" on #debian-nginx #debian-lan #debian-kde #debian-django #debian
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21:51-!-jimpop is "Jim Popovitch" on #debian
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21:55-!-strelnikov is "strelnikov/stalin" on #tor-project #tor-dev #tor-bots #moocows #debian
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21:59-!-jimpop is "Jim Popovitch" on #debian
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22:05-!-Yst is "Alex Yst" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian
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22:12-!-Xinayder is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #debian #debian-br
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22:13-!-pluvano is "pluvano" on #suckless #debian-next #debian #C
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22:20-!-handsome_feng is "realname" on #debian #debian-zh
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22:22-!-awal1 is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
22:26-!-strelnikov [~strelniko@000289da.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
22:26-!-strelnikov is "strelnikov/stalin" on #tor-project #tor-dev #tor-bots #moocows #debian
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23:07-!-dvs is "realname" on #debian
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23:10-!-esaym153 is "esaym153" on #debian-offtopic #debian
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23:22-!-strelnikov [~strelniko@000289da.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:22-!-strelnikov is "strelnikov/stalin" on #debian #moocows #tor-bots #tor-dev #tor-project
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23:27-!-weedloser is "realname" on #debian-dpkg #debian-apt #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian
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23:55-!-MrHide is "realname" on #debian
23:55<MrHide>Hello
23:56-!-strelnikov is now known as Guest3963
23:56-!-strelnikov [~strelniko@000289da.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:56-!-strelnikov is "strelnikov/stalin" on #debian #moocows #tor-bots #tor-dev #tor-project
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23:58-!-snowyfox is "Snowyfox" on #debian-meeting #debian-kde #debian
---Logclosed Fri May 31 00:00:03 2019