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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-06-18

---Logopened Tue Jun 18 00:00:29 2019
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00:28<twb>"apt-get dist-upgrade" is trying to install e2fsprogs. Why? Because "Essential: yes"? aptitude shows nothing else is Depends'ing on it
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00:29<somiaj>what about recommends, apt upgrade/dist-upgrade will install newly added reocmmends as well by default
00:30<twb>recommends should be off in my apt.conf, but I'll try being explicit
00:30<somiaj>hmm, then maybe that isn't the case.
00:31<twb>http://ix.io/1M5W
00:31<twb>I'm betting it's Essential: yes.
00:31<twb>I find it mildly annoying that e2fsck is considered mandatory even on diskless systems
00:31<somiaj>do you have initscripts installed?
00:32<twb>somiaj: I am using initramfs-tools and live-boot, yes
00:32<somiaj>might be an old sysvinit issue. I have it installed and when I do aptitude why e2fsprogs in stretch, I get initscripts depends on e2fsprogs
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00:32<somiaj>but I don't have initscripts installed on my system (sysvinit-core depends on it and init depends on either sysvinit-core or systemd, but i"m using systemd)
00:33<somiaj>twb: not initramfs-tools, initscripts (that is the name of the package)
00:33<twb>Ah
00:33<twb>somiaj: I don't have that installed
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00:34<somiaj>I wonder if the essential is due to sysvinit scripts requring it (unsure why) and it hasn't been fuly updated for systemd.
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00:35<somiaj>though that is intersting that a dist-upgrade notes missing essential packages.
00:35<twb>It has been essential:yes for a long time, FWIW. Prior to the systemd takeover by several releases.
00:35<twb>I always assumed it was simply because "everyone" uses ext2
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00:40<somiaj>well its more than ext2, its for all ext? filesystems, and yea that is the default in debian/linux.
00:41<twb>The context of this is I'm removing YAGNI/banned stuff from OS images, including mke2fs. Recently I started doing a "apt-get --dry-run dist-upgrade" at the end, and aborting if that wants to do any changes.
00:41<twb>And I discovered it always aborts if e2fsprogs is removed :-(
00:41<somiaj>yea, looks like systemd doesn't explicity depend on it, but it is still probably needed by most. Probably the lack of depends are due to it being essential.
00:42<twb>I think I will have to just make a fake e2fsprogs, like I already do for a bunch of KDE crap (because KDE stupidly bundles 100 libraries into a single deb)
00:42<twb>somiaj: systemd will just be calling fsck and relying on fsck to dispatch to the appropriate fscker, I think
00:42<twb>somiaj: if you care, it'll probably be in the fstab generator
00:42<somiaj>sure, but if using ext2/3/4, one will need e2fsprogs for that
00:43<twb>somiaj: granted
00:43<somiaj>so instead of systemd depending on this, it is just essential so systemd can assume that it is there.
00:43<somiaj>are you not using ext? filesystems on this system? Sounds like some small embeded system?
00:43<twb>somiaj: but IMO there's no need for ext to get special treatment there. debian-installer will just as happily allow at least xfs.
00:44<somiaj>also install size is only 4megs, is this setup really that tight on space?
00:44<twb>somiaj: it's a security thing. Inmates aren't allowed to have local persistent storage; mkfs.* would help them do that proscribed thing.
00:45<somiaj>yea, and with talk of maybe changing default filesystem in the future (though that never seems to get anywhere, I haven't heard much about btrfs become default in linux for many years now)
00:45<twb>somiaj: AFAICT btrfs has basically lost
00:45<twb>somiaj: ZFS on Linux can native encryption now (i.e. no LUKS), which is my personal tipping point.
00:46<somiaj>I'm not sure what to do in the case you want to start removing essential packages in debian. So are you using ext? file system?
00:47<twb>Where these OS images are used, the only filesystems needed are squashfs, anon ro NFSv4 (or iSCSI), tmpfs, and overlay. Also I guess ro UDF for movies.
00:47<twb>I'm using ZFS on the server side
00:48<twb>As to removing Essential: yes, I'm pretty sure that's simply Not A Thing
00:48<somiaj>Yea, you may have to make a dummy package. There is a tool for this, one second.
00:49<twb>equivs
00:49<twb>but don't worry I alreayd have like 30 of these dummy packages
00:49<somiaj>yea equivs is what I was thinking.
00:49<twb>http://ix.io/1M5Y
00:49<twb>http://ix.io/1CG9
00:50<jm_>isn't zfs a memory hog?
00:50<twb>http://ix.io/1M5Z (allow GNOME Help to see KDE docs)
00:50<twb>jm_: if you want dedup, you need 1GB of RAM (or SSD) for every 1TB of HDD
00:50<somiaj>My assumption (though this could be tottaly wrong) is making e2fsprogs essential helps on lots of conditional depends to ensure fsck is avaiable for the default file system.
00:50<jm_>twb: ahh dedup only, makes sense
00:50<twb>jm_: best practice is to simply not use dedup
00:51<twb>jm_: ZFS probably will not deal well with e.g. a r-pi, though
00:51<twb>jm_: e.g. one reason Linux's default page cache is still LRU instead of L2ARC is because L2ARC needs a flagfall of RAM, so it has limits to how low it can scale
00:53<twb>The nicest thing about native ZFS encryption is you can do incremental backups to (and restore from) a host *that can't decrypt them*
00:54<twb>However, I should warn you that Linus has blocked non-GPL software from using a "go faster" function in 5.0+, and Greg KH has backported that change to all stable kernels. So in the short term, ZFS native encryption will be very slow.
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00:55<somiaj>hmm, according to the policy required packages are "Packages which are necessary for the proper functioning of the system". Wonder if there is more than needing it fsck at boot (and what if you don't use extfs as you brought up)
00:56<twb>somiaj: I'll "me too" if you want to campaign for removing Essential: yes from e2fsprogs, but I personally don't want to be bikeshedding it
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00:58<somiaj>I'm more just curious. I'm unsure if a wishlist bug would be appropriate (maybe an actual dd could give insight on why it is required or if this is just a convience thing since many use ext? as default)
00:58<somiaj>I'm not getting any mialing list hits on why it is required (the essential: yes I'm unsure if it is part of being required or not, are there required packages with essential: No?)
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01:00<jm_>looks like xfsprogs has the necessary bit in place -- Provides: fsck-backend -- but packages for other FS-s don't
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01:01<somiaj>hmm, seems only about half of the required packages are actually flagged as essential.
01:04<somiaj>hmm, wonder if it is the chattr and lsattr that makes it essential, since these maybe mandatory when upgrading/installing packages
01:04<somiaj>https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-binary.html#essential-packages
01:04<twb>Hrm, quota uses the userland ext2 driver library
01:04<twb>But *which binary* in quota?
01:05<somiaj>seems that the e2fsprogs chattr and lsattr actually works on other file systems besides ext?, this seems more likely the reason it is essential (or getting closer)
01:06<twb>somiaj: good catch, I didn't notice those were in e2fsprogs
01:06<jm_>at least /sbin/quotacheck
01:06<twb>jm_: looks like ONLY quotacheck
01:07<twb>jm_: and since I only need usr/bin/quota on the clients (to query user's own NFS quota), I can strip out libext2fs2 as well
01:07<somiaj>logsave is also part of that package, and this seems to be important early in the boot before say /var is mounted
01:07<twb>somiaj: isn't it savelog(1)
01:07<somiaj>so maybe to make e2fsprogs non essential, one would have to move these few core binaries out of the package first.
01:08<twb>it's basically an embedded logrotate
01:08<somiaj>nope it is logsave
01:08<twb>somiaj: oh weird
01:08<twb>somiaj: both exist
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01:08<twb>logsave is a debianism, not an e2fsprogsism.
01:09<somiaj>logsave seems to output a file to stdout and a logfile at the same time, and if the filesystem is not avialble, hold the log in memeory until it is (as it says useful for booting before /var is avaialbe)
01:09<twb>somiaj: debian doesn't allow separate /var anymore, of course
01:09<somiaj>so I can also see that being essential if debian's initscripts all use it.
01:09<twb>somiaj: or is it just separate /usr
01:10<somiaj>probably /usr if anything, I don't see why /var can't be separate
01:10<twb>yeah, sorry, brain fart
01:10<somiaj>also the only reason /usr couldn't be is if one used usrmerge. Since this isnt' default (it was only default for a short period of time), I don't see why /usr can't be separate either
01:11<somiaj>they tried to make usrmerge default, lasted about a month before to many bugs and they reverted
01:11<twb>somiaj: IIRC buster or stretch release notes explicitly said separate /usr was abandoned because it was always broken in practice and nobody cared to defend it
01:11<somiaj>hopefully there aren't any bins in /usr that need to be used before /usr is mounted.
01:11<twb>somiaj: I mean having / and /usr as separate filesystems -- unrelated to merging the dirs
01:11<jmcnaught>usrmerge is default in buster
01:11<somiaj>oh it is now, maybe it was in stretch they reverted it
01:12<jm_>yeah new installs get it
01:12<twb>usrmerge flip-flopped at least 4 times recently in debootstrap, but it depends on the --variant
01:12<somiaj>I can see usrmerge requirign /usr separate
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01:13<somiaj>I mean requring it coulnd't be, and I can see it as being mostly broken, because use case is so varity, it is hard to determine what binaries need to be in /bin, /sbin before /usr was mounted
01:13<somiaj>espically with systemd and parallel startup, one could be requsting binaries in /usr before it was mounted, causing chaos
01:14<somiaj>jmcnaught: thanks, I didn't realize they finally fixed it enough to be default. They ahve been wanting that for at least 1 or 2 release, but there was always to many bugs
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01:16<twb>dpkg -L e2fsprogs | sed -n '\%bin/% s%.*/%%p'> binaries.grep; sudo find -O3 / -xdev -type f -exec grep --color=always -nHFw --file=binaries.grep {} + | less -SCR
01:16<dpkg>ii e2fsprogs | sed -n '\%bin/% s%.*/%%p'> binaries.grep; sudo find -O3 / -xdev -type f -exec grep --color=always -nHFw --file=binaries.grep {} + | less -SCR 2.4-2.1 twb's private warez collection
01:17<twb>Possibly the most interesting match there is usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/intel_drv.so
01:17<jmcnaught>somiaj: I just noticed it because I did a fresh buster install on a new computer
01:17<twb>But initramfs-tools is definitely calling logsave
01:17<somiaj>so you might not be able to just make a dummy package for e2fsprogs
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01:18<twb>It's only used when initramfs-tools fsck's the root=
01:18<twb>Which is not relevant for NFS
01:19<somiaj>I could see argument for moving these core tools out of the e2fsprogs package, but it does seem that there might be stuff in that package that could break boot.
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01:19<twb>I can't see anything else actually using it; most of the other references are via overloading of "debugs" (the binary) with "debugfs" (the sysfs thing)
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01:19<twb>somiaj: yeah absolutely.
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01:21<somiaj>twb: maybe instead of making a dummy package, rebuild a custom package and remove mkfs
01:22<somiaj>this probably isn't to hard to add a custom option to the debian/rules to rm all the mkfs files before building the package.
01:23<twb>somiaj: I don't care enough
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01:31<twb>http://ix.io/1M68
01:31*twb starts testing that
01:31<soumya>hello
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01:42<ssgelm>if a package gets rejected from NEW should the fixed version be the same debian release or a new one with a separate changelog entry?
01:44<somiaj>ssgelm: I'd ask in #debian-mentors
01:44<ssgelm>sure, thanks somiaj
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02:20<twb>GRRR
02:21<twb>WARNING: The following essential packages will be removed. This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you are doing! e2fsprogs e2fslibs (due to e2fsprogs) libss2 (due to e2fsprogs)
02:21<twb>I'll try adding Essential: yes to my dummy also
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02:28<twb>That didn't help. I'll have to keep my dpkg purge line before installing the ersatz version
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02:35<twb>If I can't solve this soon, I'll let e2fsprogs stay installed, and instead just delete all its binaries
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02:49<lqw>www.goole.com
02:50<lqw>ping www.goole.com
02:50<lqw>ip
02:50<lqw>_help
02:50<lqw>-help
02:51<twb>lqw: what are you trying to do?
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04:08<GyrosGeier>finn0, yes, sandboxed applications cannot run arbitrary programs, because the sandbox cannot distinguish between xprop and rm
04:09<twb>Well, some sandboxes can.
04:09<GyrosGeier>true
04:10<twb>I would also point out that xprop fundamentally relies on X11's lack of security :-)
04:13<twb>For example, /etc/apparmor.d/usr.bin.msmtp allows msmtp to run "gpg" and "pass", but not "rm"
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05:02<kts>Debian Stable Chromium doesn't play some Facebook videos. Do I need to install additional packages?
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05:08<twb>kts: does your chromium have unrestricted internet access?
05:08<twb>kts: the part of that I can remember, chromium would auto-download the non-free parts into $HOME as soon as it had access to google's servers
05:09<twb>I'm not sure if that was non-free video codecs, or just flash
05:11<nikos>I'm pretty sure facebook started using DRM for some videos lately. I've been getting prompts about it on firefox.
05:11<kts>twb: It's all good for the youtube.
05:12<kts>Firefox plays everything on the other hand.
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05:14<Synaptic>hello
05:15<Synaptic>this is not exactly debian related, but all linux, but anyway, i want to protect my server that is running debian. What about this new SACK PANIC issue? is it going to came out a kernel patch to avoid this?
05:16<Synaptic>im worring a bit about that, because thats dangerous and too easy
05:17<twb>Synaptic: https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2019-11477
05:17<twb>Synaptic: if you click on the DSA link, then the debian link, you'll see the DSA message. Usually that includes mitigations.
05:18<twb>Synaptic: I happen to know you can also just turn off the feature in sysctl (at the cost of network performance)
05:20<Synaptic>twb as far as ypu know is going to be fixed globally through a normal update further?
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05:21<twb>Synaptic: if you look at that link, you can see it is already fixed in most debians
05:21<Synaptic>i saw
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05:21<Synaptic>but im running stretch
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05:22<twb> stretch (security) 4.9.168-1+deb9u3 fixed
05:22<Synaptic>im sorry its just that im not so expert, so its included in the security repo even of stable version
05:22<Synaptic>ok
05:22<twb>Synaptic: yeah, if you are on stretch and follow normal security practice, you are probably already patched
05:23<twb>Synaptic: but you can explicitly check by comparing against the versions on that page
05:23<Synaptic>to check my version? uname?
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05:25<Synaptic>oh, i was not protected, its just in the update of now
05:25<Synaptic>just need to reboot to make it effective
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05:28<klingklang>i found solution to install winehq-staging - run it via schroot + debootstrap
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05:28<klingklang>original wine build fine but having some hangups
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05:31<twb>Synaptic: check it via apt or aptitude or synaptic :-)
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05:33<Synaptic>its ok its ok i checked on my webmin
05:33<Synaptic>it was the update there, updated and rebooted, now i will check again
05:33<Synaptic>now need to see also my Mint if there is something but i think there patch still didnt arrived
05:34<Synaptic>but for me server was more important...
05:34<Synaptic> Linux 4.9.0-9-amd64 on x86_64
05:35<klingklang>oh shit winehq-staging : Depends: wine-staging (= 4.10~stretch)
05:35<klingklang>on chrooted env
05:35<klingklang>i guees something worng with their packages
05:36<klingklang>this method worked earlier
05:37<Synaptic>twb uname -a SMP Debian 4.9.168-1+deb9u3
05:37<Synaptic>so i should be fine
05:37<twb>Synaptic: I always check in apt, because the uname output can be confusing
05:37<Synaptic>wich command?
05:37<twb>Synaptic: but what you've quoted looks OK to me
05:38<twb>Synaptic: something like aptitude search '?installed ?name(linux-image)'
05:39<Synaptic>its ko
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05:41<klingklang>Synaptic, u should use "synaptic" not aptitude
05:41<Synaptic>;)
05:41<twb>yeah, use whatever apt tool you prefer
05:41<Synaptic>i have only terminal access, otherwise i would do that
05:42<Synaptic>anyway problem solved... thank you
05:42<Synaptic>im only thinking about the billions of routers vulnerable to this SACK
05:42<Synaptic>what is gonna happen
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05:48<twb>isn't it mainly a service denial issue?
05:49<twb>There's a couple of privescs in there, but you need a separate RCE vuln before you can use them
05:49<twb>So anyway, the outcome for shitty commodity routers will be: nothing
05:50<twb>Synaptic: compare https://androidvulnerabilities.org/images/norm_versionsecurity.svg
05:52<Synaptic>ye... didnt think about this
05:52<twb>if you run your own routers, you can run something like OpenWRT on them, and reflash them periodically.
05:53<Synaptic>so its time to update also my android devices i guess
05:54<twb>Synaptic: you should have a security policy for all your devices, really.
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06:02<klingklang>winehq-staging in schroot env and wineprefix from ~/ http://tinyurl.com/y6t5x2yu
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07:13<Exchange>Hi. I've found a patch on patchwork.kernel.org that fixes an issue I have. I can see the patch is not in my debian kernel (4.9.9-9) (by inspection of the source code), but how do I find a kernel version that includes that patch ? How do I see if that patch has been applied to the linux kernel ? thanks in advance :>
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07:16<jm_>Exchange: why not first look in the upstream kernel sources?
07:16<jm_>i.e. check if it's there, look at history of the file
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07:17<Exchange>ahh yes, ofc ! It has not been applied, damn - guess I have to compile my own kernel then... What would it take to get this patch into the debian kernel ? https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/10718979/
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07:22<jm_>it is in 4.14 kernel, so grab 4.19 from backports?
07:28<Exchange>ehm how do you see that ? it's not in 5.2 https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/drivers/scsi/smartpqi/smartpqi_init.c?h=v5.2-rc5#n2944
07:29<jm_>https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux.git/commit/drivers/scsi/smartpqi/smartpqi_init.c?id=2ba55c9851d74eb015a554ef69ddf2ef061d5780
07:29<jm_>looks the same to me
07:30<jm_>also: https://lwn.net/Articles/777581/ search for "correct lun reset issues"
07:30<Exchange>I agree! How did you find it ? Where did you look ?
07:31<jm_>i just looked at that file in the upstream stable GIT tree and found it to be in there :)
07:31<Exchange>Hm, but when I look at v5.2 is has not been applied ?
07:33<jm_>it is in there too? https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/log/drivers/scsi/smartpqi/smartpqi_init.c
07:33<jm_>2018-12-19 scsi: smartpqi: correct lun reset issues
07:34<Exchange>But why not in the file, if I verify the patch has been applied ? But yes it
07:34<jm_>so just install 4.19 from backports and you'll get this fix
07:34<Exchange>it's in the commit log, I see
07:35<jm_>well that is the file the patch changes, not sure what's not clear
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07:38<Exchange>oh sorry, I'll try to be more clear. This is the file the patch applies changes to: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/drivers/scsi/smartpqi/smartpqi_init.c?h=v5.2-rc5#n2944 - the patch outcomments two lines, but since the linenumbers doesn't match either I guess a lot has happend to that file...
07:39<jm_>yeah you can't look at the line numbers, look at the context surrounding the change etc.
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07:41<Exchange>but even around the context the patch hasn't been applied. Lines 2944 and 2955 should be outcommented :/
07:43<thsnr>Exchange: the + you see in the patch is not a comment character: it denotes that those were the lines added in the patch
07:43<jm_>they are not commented
07:43<jm_>+ means add lines to file
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07:44<Exchange>Woaw thanks!
07:44<jm_>in general if you are not sure, download the sources, the patch, try to apply it - patch will tell you if it's already applied
07:44<Exchange>Damn
07:44<Exchange>Thanks guys !
07:44<Exchange>Thanks jm_ !
07:45<jm_>no worries
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07:57<RJD1>Hi, I just copied a bunch of media files (including large videos more than a few gigs each) and I saw a few errors that have since gone off the top of the terminal buffer, is there something faster than `cmp` I could use to figure out which files in the destination do not match the source?
08:01<nikos>RJD1: In either case you'll have to do a full read of all files so there is no saving of the disk I/O. If you copied it to a remote machine and bandwidth is the problem you can create checksums for each file.
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08:11<RJD1>ok I'm just going to leave it doing a diff -qr then... maybe something like for file in diff -qr "$source" "$dest"; do install -vDo new_owner -g new_group "$file" "$dest/$file"; done... does taht sound inappropriate?
08:11<RJD1>*that
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08:20<RJD1>hm so cmp stops reading as soon as there is a diff so should be quicker than diff
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08:22<furrymcgee>do you know why debian renames /usr/bin/index to /usr/bin/index++?
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09:02<RJD1>Anyone here use rygel? I noticed that it's installed already on my stretch box, but there appears to be no service file for it, is it not meant to be run as a daemon? seems kind of counterintuitive
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09:04<ksk>RJD1: take a look at "dpgk -L rygel"
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09:05<ksk>this lists files coming with said package - take a look if there is a .service file - maybe in /usr/share/doc/foo/examples or so?
09:05<RJD1>aha, thanks - found exam[
09:05<RJD1>*example service files in usr/shar/edoc
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09:13<jmcnaught>RJD1: rygel gets turned on by enabling media sharing in GNOME settings
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09:33<jsgrant>Hey guys, new install of Debian and I can't figure out how to get a 'graphical' grub; the 'console' option is off -- so should be enable by default? And have GRUB_BACKGROUND set and says images are found on update-grub
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09:35<jsgrant>Namely : GRUB_BACKGROUND = "/usr/share/images/desktop-base/desktop-grub.png" -- in /etc/default/grub
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09:41<Dewitt>Question on mx linux upgrade it ask if you want to install new grub every answer was wrong to install it did'nt understand
09:42<jsgrant>Okay, trying to remove and re-add desktop-base and maybe it'll automagically work; should brb
09:42<somiaj>!mx linux
09:42<dpkg>Current MX Linux is based on Debian stretch. However, MX Linux is not supported in #debian. Seek help at https://mxlinux.org/.
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09:43<somiaj>Dewitt: please ask the support community for MX linux.
09:43<Dewitt>ok thanks
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09:44<jsgrant>Nope, nothing; Still just blue on black
09:44<jsgrant>No themeing at all
09:44<jsgrant>well bg image
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09:48<somiaj>I'm not quite sure on what is needed for a graphical grub image. It use to use frame buffers, but with kms drivers, you don't want to load a framebuff early on in grub.
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09:49<somiaj>https://wiki.debian.org/Grub/SplashImage
09:49<somiaj>https://wiki.debian.org/Grub2#Configure_graphical_splashimage
09:50<somiaj>only thing I notice is that the images need to be .tga format, but you are providing it a .png
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09:51<jsgrant>somiaj: I tried one of the grub2-splashimages .tga files as-well and it didn't work either
09:52*jsgrant will brb trying to reboot
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09:53<somiaj>you did run update-grub after all changes in /etc/default/grub as stated. I haven't done this, only looking at the wiki
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09:57<RJD1>jmcnaught: enabling media sharing in gnome settings - does that use xinit? I'm planning on maing this box headless
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10:01<RJD1>oh and is it just for the currently logged in user?
10:01<RJD1>I need it for a different user I share with the family
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10:07<jsgrant>Okay, just giving up for now I guess and look into it more after a nap... because getting no-where
10:09<somiaj>jsgrant: did you run update-grub? Are you using efi or legacy boot?
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10:11<jsgrant>somiaj: Yup, both update-grub and update-grub2 (which I assume the first is just an alias for the second?) -- and Efi.
10:13<somiaj>hmm, yea I'm not quite sure. I never messed with flash screens, so not sure what the issue could be.
10:13<somiaj>I just boot so little (only during kernel upgrades) and grub is on the screen for less than 5 seconds, :/
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10:14<jsgrant>I'll look into it more certainly; And tomorrow or the next day I plan on installing Buster onto my workstation and home-server, so I guess if it works by default there ... will be even more confused if it does, but I'll see; lol
10:14<jsgrant>somiaj: Either way, I appreciate the help. :^)
10:15<jsgrant>Yeah, it's not a huge deal and I'm probably worrying about nothing, but just find it really weird I was able to get plymouth up and running so easy and something I would take for granted as "really easy" -- the grub bg pic has been such an issue
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10:39<EmleyMoor>Is there a good laptop with touchscreen, or a good tablet, that can run Debian?
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10:52<Maulkin>Depends on your budget.
10:52<Maulkin>The Dell XPS13 works well.
10:52<EmleyMoor>Maulkin: Let's say my budget depends on availability
10:52<EmleyMoor>OK, noted
10:53<Maulkin>I believe the lenovo yoga also is fine.
10:53<EmleyMoor>Been thinking of that one
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10:55<Maulkin>EmleyMoor: I /think/ I saw someone with an HP one too.
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11:01<abi_>like crillin hipster
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11:36<RJD1>Anyone know of any methods quicker than `diff -q` or `cmp -s` ?
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11:37<RJD1>hmmm I could probably diff the tails
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12:26<petn-randall>RJD1: Depends on how fast you want to achieve something, and what exactly. Comparing timestamps is probably quickest.
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12:58<RJD1>I used `install` to change ownership during copy of a large tree of videos, music and pictures. It turns out a few of the files failed due to I/O errors and I was trying to find which files differed from the source - turns out that the I/O errors made `install` skip the -u and -g options so they were still owned by root instead of the target user which made them easy to `find -user root`
12:59<petn-randall>RJD1: If you want to sync a large set of files, use `rsync` with the right options (I'd go with "-avz").
13:01<RJD1>rsync preserves ownership
13:01<RJD1>I used install because it can change ownership
13:01<ksk>that totally depends on switches. also, I would kind of always do rsync+chown instead of using install. 1980 is calling ;) (though other people might see that different..)
13:03<petn-randall>RJD1: I agree with ksk. First verify all synced over fine, _then_ you can care about file ownership.
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13:04<sarnold>heck, with io errors, you *know* they didn't :) "is it fine" isn't as important as "do I need to replace this hard drive / controller / cable / motherboard / memory / powersupply" etc :)
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13:06<petn-randall>Might have been an USB stick that was removed or doesn't plug properly, we don't know that yet.
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13:06<RJD1>I was more pointing out that -az seem inappropriate, compression for transfer from one disk to another and preserving attributes I don't care about
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13:07<RJD1>it's a USB HDD (1TB)
13:08<RJD1>it's just these few files
13:08<RJD1>I guess the fs has bad blocks, I was going to have a go with fsck and safecopy
13:09<petn-randall>RJD1: Bad blocks are a hardware issue, not a filesystem issue.
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13:09<RJD1>... hence safecopy
13:09<RJD1>sorry yes I worded that badly
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13:20<jhutchins_wk>RJD1: What's wrong with chown?
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13:20<jhutchins_wk>RJD1: Using compression on a local rsync doesn't help, just adds overhead.
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13:21<RJD1>nothing's 'wrong' with chown, what's wrong with install? does rsync do something special that would avoid an I/O error?
13:22<jhutchins_wk>RJD1: Not really, but a second run should fix any files that got corrupted.
13:23<RJD1>same I/O errors at the same parts of the same files suggests to me that this a problem that won't be fixed by preferring rsync over install
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13:26<TheSnide>is there some doc about recompiling the base package set against musl instead of libc?
13:27<petn-randall>TheSnide: No, you're pretty much on your own. I can also imagine that you'll need to patch a lot of packages to make it work.
13:27<TheSnide>(or better, a pointer to some fool that did it already.. ;-D)
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13:31<petn-randall>TheSnide: Is there a reason you want to compile against musl?
13:32<TheSnide>testing mostly
13:32<jelly>a) it's fun b) if other distros can do it...
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13:32<TheSnide>and yeah, what jelly said
13:33<TheSnide>actually, it is more to test the same package sets with the same compilation options
13:33<petn-randall>Fun is always a legit reason to do something, especially if you learn a lot on the way.
13:33<TheSnide>on an embedded platform
13:33<jelly>you WILL have issues with interoperability if oyu mix and match, unless you provide a nscd
13:35<jelly>(musl does stubs for most of libresolv, IIRC)
13:35<TheSnide>nah. i'm planning to deploy it on its own
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13:40<TheSnide>but thx for the hint
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13:40<jelly>oh, they fixed or WONTFIXd some of that stuff https://wiki.musl-libc.org/open-issues.html#Missing-libresolv-functions
13:41<TheSnide>how do i ask dpkg to use musl? is setting CC enough?
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13:41<TheSnide>CC=musl-gcc
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13:41<petn-randall>dpkg only install packages, you'll likely need to change the build system in the package source itself.
13:41<dpkg>You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, petn-randall
13:42<petn-randall>dpkg: quiet now.
13:42<dpkg>parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about, petn-randall
13:44<jelly>I mean people are doing clang rebuilds of debian archive... a different libc seems like a minor issue
13:44*jelly hides
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13:50<TheSnide>jelly: isnt the output of clang and gcc interoperable?
13:50<TheSnide>whereas the libc...
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13:57<TheSnide>.. maybe it wont be that difficult, since i'm aiming at compiling every as static.
13:57<TheSnide>yeah. fun & others are doing it.
13:58<TheSnide>owtb
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14:01<TheSnide>reading https://wiki.debian.org/HelmutGrohne/rebootstrap
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14:04<TheSnide>.. ok heading towards #debian-bootstrap
14:04<TheSnide>thx all!
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14:54<RJD1>OK I see that enabling media sharing in gnome settings sets up ~/.config/rygel.conf but I can't figure out how it's getting started, ps auxf shows it's a child of `/lib/systemd/systemd --user` but there's no unit loaded for it... I clearly don't understand systemd
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14:56<somiaj>by media sharing, what are you actually wanting to do. If you plan to not be running gnome, you probably shouldn't use gnome tools for this.
14:57<RJD1>DLNA with Rygel... I will be turning it off again in gnome settings I just want to figure out what it's using to automatically start it... evidently not a systemd unit
14:57<petn-randall>RJD1: `systemctl status <PID of process>` will show you which unit it belongs to.
14:59<RJD1>aha, thanks very much =)
14:59<somiaj>I thought you wanted a headless server, you may find alternative media sharing applications better for this purpose (just a suggestion)
14:59<sarnold>petn-randall: oh that's cool, thanks
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15:00<TheSnide>petn-randall, jelly: seems that such a fool already exists : https://jenkins.debian.net/view/rebootstrap/job/rebootstrap_musl-linux-armhf_gcc8/
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15:02<RJD1>I do, from what I've read, minidlna doesn't do transcoding so rygel seems like the most appropriate option and it's already installed. looks simple enough to configure, I just want to start it on boot (probably not with the same method as gnome settings did with user@.service, but I was just curious and learnt something new)
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15:09<k2d> hello there, hope I'm right here, just need some Information. Currently the APT Downloads seem to slow down within short period of time. Can someone test/confirm this? I'm using the german mirror (ftp.de.debian.org) , running at 2-3mb/s at the beginning and slowing down after 2-3 seconds to like 50kbit/s. Haven't found the Issue on my side, so just guessing right now. ISP is Deutsche Telekom, other stuff works at max speed
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15:10<fmneto>RJD1, you might want to have a look at Plex. It does transcoding, but it's a little weird.
15:10<RJD1>Plex is a full media system like Kodi isn't it? I just want a DLNA server so my TV can watch the media I have on the network
15:10<RJD1>rygel will be fine
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15:15<RJD1>I definitely don't need a freemium podcast collation server too
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15:17<petn-randall>k2d: Sounds like a traffic shaper on your side, it's not something I've noticed.
15:17<sarnold>if you want to test, there's some huge packages in http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/c/ceph/
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15:18<sarnold>ceph-test packages are 16~50 megs, and the ceph-test dbg packages are ~300 megs
15:18<sarnold>that way you can grab something that'll last more than a few seconds for your connection speed
15:18<sarnold>(and if none of those will take "a few seconds", then I very much envy your connection :)
15:19<k2d>petn-randall : currently im guessing it could be a defect hard drive, smart shows passed but well... last time it only switched to "ok" after it already crashed :X
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15:23<k2d>well , the funny thing is after i got my apt files, i'm now dowloading something for the application with max speed
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15:25<sarnold>weird indeed
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15:35<k2d>so I tried...czech1 + netherlands1 apt mirror at max speed, but germany1 & 2 seems really slow and my local (fau) and another secondary(uni-duisburg-essen) also, like 50kbit/s, 100 and 300 and 70. atleast it works over a foreign one ;P dont have time to check more + it could be the isp, but thanks for the suggestions
15:37<sarnold>k2d: if you get a chance, maybe check traceroutes to all those sites, maybe one of your ISP's uplinks is in poor shape
15:38<sarnold>(traceroute is a bucket of lies these days, but it's the best we've got, so..)
15:38<klingklang>im using mirrors which provide ftp support
15:39<klingklang>,v rygel
15:39<judd>Package: rygel on amd64 -- jessie: 0.24.2-1+b1; stretch: 0.32.1-3; buster: 0.36.2-4; sid: 0.36.2-4; experimental: 0.36.2-5
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15:41<k2d>sarnold: and lookout for?
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15:43<sarnold>k2d: if all the slow ones go through one router, and all the fast ones through another router
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15:49<RJD1>bucket of lies? is that just because CGNAT? (& reverse DNS issues over CGNAT?
15:49<k2d>the first isp hop goes through the same, the second isp hop through different, at every connection. only remarkable is that the germans are going through telia's net before they reach their destination, while the foreign are routed directly from a 3rd isp into the foreign country
15:50<sarnold>RJD1: apparently it's because a lot of the real routing these days happens via MPLS "below" the IP layer, so there may be many more routers along a path than show up in traceroute replies
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15:51<RJD1>interesting rabbit hole set aside in another tab for later =)
15:52<sarnold>:D
15:53<k2d>gonna try this tomorrow again... lets see, thank you and cu
15:53<jhutchins_wk>https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/filesystem-hierarchy-standard is a good discussion with some history.
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16:49<wb9688>I have once filed an ITP at bugs.debian.org (which didn't end up in Debian in favor of embedding). Is there any way to get my name and e-mail address removed from bugs.debian.org? (under the GDPR?)
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16:55<ksk>wb9688: interesting question..
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16:56<sarnold>wb9688: probably owner@bugs.debian.org is the right place to go
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17:09<amacater>Almost certainly not - there will be copies around see Wikipedia Streisand Effect ...
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17:10<amacater>Why would you want to remove it, anyway?
17:10<amacater>There are lots of ITP that never came to anything
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17:34<wb9688>I don't care about copies or that the ITP lead to nothing, I just don't want my e-mail address to immediately show up when googling my name.
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17:39<amacater>That's a bit hard to guard against - you've never added your name to an email ... infeasible, I'm afraid, unless you can ask Google to forget you entirely - and there will always be something somewhere
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17:42<themill>wb9688: once you have emailed a public mailing list, you have made public data that is replicated across thousands of other locations outside of Debian's control. No, there is no way of scrubbing that. There is no way of maintaining open source code that is not in the open.
17:45<wb9688>I don't really care about Google know me and I understand it's replicated on otber locations. I just want my namde removed from bugs.debian.org, so you can't find it in a quick Google search. Besides that, Im pretty sure thr GDPR requires the ability to remove personal data.
17:49<tarzeau>i have a mirror of bts, and it's RO
17:49<tarzeau>as in read-only
17:49<themill>No, it doesn't. GDPR says that Debian can have data where there is a legitimate interest. At the point where you file an ITP, there is a legitimate interest (and you have broadcast that interest all over the internet and you can't make that go away)
17:50<themill>Lots of myths about GDPR are around, and most of them are created by spammers wanting to make money out of it
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17:51<tarzeau>which bug number is that? just being curious
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17:53<ksk>wb9688: If it makes you a little happy, there is only one bugreport my me, and it describes me not being able to use a piece of software ;)
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17:55<wb9688>Yes, there was a legitimate interest, which is the 'consent' for bugs.debian.org to process my personal data in the first place. However, I still have the right to be forgotten.
17:56<wb9688>Right? I'm not an expert on this topic though.
17:56<themill>Correct, you are not a expert ;) Debian has, however, looked at this carefully
18:04<wb9688>Does it change anything if I was a minor at the time of sending that e-mail?
18:05<themill>Not that I know of
18:06<tarzeau>it'd be easier if you change your real name and/or email address, instead of what you're trying to do
18:06<wb9688>https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/rules-business-and-organisations/dealing-citizens/do-we-always-have-delete-personal-data-if-person-asks_en mentions something about minors thoough
18:07<wb9688>I don't care that much that I'd change my real name and/or e-mail address just because of this.
18:07<tarzeau>wb9688: bugs.d.o is not located in europe, not part of EU
18:07<tarzeau>and pretty much nobody cares about your ITP, which you don't even want to tell which one it is
18:08<wb9688>But I'm an EU citizen, which still means it needs to comply with the GDPR.
18:08<tarzeau>no it doesn't
18:09<themill>actually, it does, and Debian does.
18:09<tarzeau>eu laws have nothing to say abroad EU member countries
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18:09<ksk>wb9688: without legal council you will not get any further - if you are really interested in getting that removed, consult a lawyer - the streisand effect has been mentioned though?
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18:11<ksk>tarzeau: not that this is on-topic, but I would reject your statement. why would "all the us sites" have GDPR-foo then, or even blocked all EU-users for some time?
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18:18<tarzeau>ksk: A regulation is a legal act of the European Union[1] that becomes immediately enforceable as law in all member states simultaneously
18:18<tarzeau>how can that be enforced in a place not member of EU, is out of my mind
18:19<wb9688>I'm not going to consult a lawyer for this, that's not worth it and in that case there really is the Streisand effect. I was hopinng this could be solved by sending a simple e-mail to the right person and then just have my name and e-mail removed from bugs.debian.orrg
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18:20<sarnold>wb9688: did you get a repsonse from owner@bugs.debian.org yet?
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18:23<wb9688>I haven't e-mailed that yet. Am I right that e-mails to that e-mail address aren't published on e.g. bugs.debian.org?
18:24<sarnold>I haven't seen them, but debian is an open project, so it's possible
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18:31<somiaj>wb9688: I doubt you will get much milage, I see various request to debian-legal about this and the legal team all replies the same, debian is not going to remove the address. This is from the public mailing list, but the same applies to the bugs mailing lists. https://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2002/08/msg00435.html
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18:31<somiaj>note this is old, but seems to be a common stance
18:32<somiaj>https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/disclaimer -- basically sending an email to the bugs.debian.org you agreed to this
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18:33<ksk>which would most likely just be not-valid if EU law applied here.
18:33<ksk>(not saying it does, but there have been cases in EU where google was sued to remove entries etc..)
18:33<ksk>google then of course does have an legal entity in europe.
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18:38<lupine_>suing debian would be a touch mean anyway
18:38<wb9688>somiaj: That first link is from 2002 though, which was when the GDPR didn't exist yet.
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18:45<somiaj>Yea, trying to find any policy/statement. It appears that debian has looked into this, so they may have a good answer as to what they are required to do. This is the best I've found so far from last year
18:45<somiaj>https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2018/06/msg00000.html
18:46<somiaj>If you want to know more, maybe data-protection@debian.org is who to email about what they are doing to protect your data and/or give option to delete it.
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18:47<user__>hello
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18:50<somiaj>also found an annoucment that in DPL last december, the team has been consluted on the GDPR, but not seeing any conclusions/statements about the result of names/emails on the public mailing lists. But my research seems to suggest the best contact ths the data-protection team.
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19:29<jruser>#hacking spañol
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19:31-!-p2hc [~p2hc@177.34.73.226] has joined #debian
19:31-!-p2hc is "Paulo Henrique" on #debian-offtopic #debian
19:32-!-CEP-2015-Jessie [~Windows@181.98.18.64] has joined #debian
19:32-!-CEP-2015-Jessie is "realname" on @#debian-live-ar #debian-live #debian-bluetooth #oftc #debian #debian-es
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19:35-!-apo [~apo@linuxiuvat.de] has quit [Quit: https://linuxiuvat.de]
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19:37-!-apo is "Markus Koschany" on #debian
19:46-!-tdy1 [~tdy@host-8-27.ilcu3rd.champaign.il.us.clients.pavlovmedia.net] has joined #debian
19:46-!-tdy1 is "tdy" on #debian
19:52-!-BoneTon3 is now known as BoneTone
19:55-!-phyton [~phyton@ip-213-127-124-185.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #debian
19:55-!-phyton is "realname" on #debian
19:55<phyton>hi
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19:59-!-Brigo [~Brigo@249.59.27.77.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:01-!-friese [~quassel@2a03:4000:6:f2fb::1] has joined #debian
20:01-!-friese is "friese" on #debian
20:03-!-Adiemus is "Ihavearealname herebuddy" on #kernelnewbies #ceph-devel
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20:07-!-jje_ [~jje@tunnel497966-pt.tunnel.tserv1.mci3.ipv6.he.net] has joined #debian
20:07-!-jje_ is "ZNC - https://znc.in" on #debian
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20:07-!-jje_ is now known as jje
20:07-!-Zentros is "realname" on #oftc #C #tor-bots #debian-next
20:07-!-Zentros [~Zentros@102.159.214.31] has joined #debian
20:10-!-mode/#debian [+l 478] by debhelper
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20:16-!-Posterdati [~kvirc@host32-211-dynamic.26-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
20:16-!-Posterdati is "KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://kvirc.net/" on #debian
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20:20-!-Yoda-BZH [~yodabzh@2001:bc8:30a4:200::1] has joined #debian
20:20-!-Yoda-BZH is "Yoda-BZH" on #debian
20:22-!-CEP-2015-Jessie [~Windows@181.98.18.64] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:22-!-CEP-2015-Jessie [~Windows@181.98.18.64] has joined #debian
20:22-!-CEP-2015-Jessie is "realname" on #debian-es #debian #oftc #debian-bluetooth #debian-live @#debian-live-ar
20:23-!-DARK is "DARK" on #oftc #tor-bots #C #debian-glibc #ovirt #ceph #qemu #revolution #msys2 #redditprivacy #virtualization #lxde #ceph-devel #virt #debian-next #freedombox #kernelnewbies
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20:24-!-jryans [~jryansmat@2001:470:1af1:101::36f8] has joined #debian
20:24-!-jryans is "@jryans:matrix.org" on #debian
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20:25-!-annadane_ is "realname" on #debian
20:25-!-kmshanah [~kmshanah@pa49-178-28-15.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection refused]
20:25-!-annadane is now known as Guest5392
20:25-!-annadane_ is now known as annadane
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20:27-!-fstd [~fstd@xdsl-78-35-85-131.nc.de] has joined #debian
20:27-!-fstd is "fstd" on #oftc #linode #debian #kernelnewbies
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20:31-!-instoogentall_ [~user@2804:431:b73d:9a9c:ef68:b422:82de:b80c] has joined #debian
20:31-!-instoogentall_ is "realname" on #debian #debian-br #debian-next #debian-printing
20:31-!-kmshanah [~kmshanah@pa49-178-28-15.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #debian
20:31-!-kmshanah is "Kevin Shanahan" on #debian
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20:31-!-instoogentall is now known as Guest5393
20:31-!-instoogentall_ is now known as instoogentall
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20:33-!-Guest5393 [~user@2804:431:b73c:640a:dbb6:14d9:a2fa:f262] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:37-!-co_chnz_ is "Android IRC Client" on #oftc #virt #virtualization #ceph #ovirt #C #redditprivacy #debian-glibc #freedombox #msys2 #qemu #tor-bots #ceph-devel #revolution
20:37-!-co_chnz_ [~androirc@102.159.214.31] has joined #debian
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20:43-!-thomasm is "tm" on #debian #ceph
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21:37-!-kiwi_45 [~kiwi_45@102.159.214.31] has joined #debian
21:37-!-kiwi_45 is "[https://kiwiirc.com] Development release" on #debian
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21:45-!-tdy1 [~tdy@host-8-27.ilcu3rd.champaign.il.us.clients.pavlovmedia.net] has joined #debian
21:45-!-tdy1 is "tdy" on #openconnect #pentadactyl #bitlbee #debian
21:52-!-}ls{ [~kalle@000199a5.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:54-!-annadane [~annadane@103.212.227.123] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:54-!-}ls{ [~kalle@000199a5.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
21:54-!-}ls{ is "nobody" on #debian-nginx #debian-lan #debian-kde #debian-django #debian
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22:00-!-mode/#debian [+l 471] by debhelper
22:02-!-dvs [~hibbard@00012127.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
22:02-!-dvs is "realname" on #debian
22:09-!-tdy1 [~tdy@host-8-27.ilcu3rd.champaign.il.us.clients.pavlovmedia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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22:13-!-YuGiOhJCJ [~YuGiOhJCJ@00021b1f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
22:13-!-YuGiOhJCJ is "YuGiOhJCJ" on #oftc @#yugiohjcj #qemu #debian
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22:23-!-IwasUSER is "The Chat Cool People Use" on #redditprivacy #freedombox #debian
22:29-!-IamUSER [~Icy@c-73-203-123-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:31-!-}ls{ [~kalle@000199a5.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: real life interrupt]
22:34-!-NawtyNurse-SC is "SecretProstateMassage" on #kernelnewbies #virt #debian-next #msys2 #C
22:34-!-NawtyNurse-SC [~tmj-pe@102.159.214.31] has joined #debian
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22:35-!-IamUSER [~Icy@c-73-203-123-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #debian
22:35-!-IamUSER is "The Chat Cool People Use" on #redditprivacy #freedombox #debian
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22:47-!-adqm [~hartz@209.6.123.122] has joined #debian
22:47-!-adqm is "realname" on #debian
22:47-!-adqm [~hartz@209.6.123.122] has left #debian []
22:48-!-RaphGro [~raphgro@2a02:8070:8788:3900:6f7c:cb6c:f393:8aa3] has joined #debian
22:48-!-RaphGro is "Raphael Groner" on #debian
22:49-!-joelkraehemann [~joelkraeh@2a02:1205:5030:ec0:dcc0:2673:3256:a24b] has joined #debian
22:49-!-joelkraehemann is "realname" on #kernelnewbies #debian
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22:51-!-tdy1 is "tdy" on #debian
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22:52-!-steve [~steve@99-53-201-7.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian
22:52-!-steve is "steve" on #debian
22:52-!-dust [~dust@0001ff89.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
22:52-!-dust is "dust" on #debian-games #debian #debian-next #debian-science #linux-rt
22:52-!-steve is now known as Guest5404
23:04-!-mattcen [~mattcen@c220-237-129-57.sunsh21.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:04-!-Guest5404 [~steve@99-53-201-7.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
23:06-!-jrklein [~cloud@34.234.31.16] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:07-!-jrklein [~cloud@34.234.31.16] has joined #debian
23:07-!-jrklein is "Jason Klein" on #virt #debian
23:12-!-CeBe [~cebe@2a02:560:4a8a:f400:cd44:c6c7:be51:4a4d] has joined #debian
23:12-!-CeBe is "Carsten Brandt" on #debian
23:12-!-segv is "Paul" on #linode
23:12-!-segv [~paul@c-73-14-77-141.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #debian
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23:17-!-i336 [~i336@121.217.111.231] has joined #debian
23:17-!-i336 is "Unknown" on #debian
23:22<i336>hi, I have some debian-specific questions regarding cross-compilation, which I've never done before (and am a bit confused about). I need to modify some shared-library code used by an armel binary built for a debian squeeze-era /usr/lib.
23:23<i336>so, I figure the easiest way to get started is to install squeeze for x86_64 in a VM, and just use that (x86_64 KVM is light years faster than qemu-system-arm, yes please). but it seems debian squeeze used emdebian, which appears to not only be abandoned but have bitrotted to the point the repos don't appear to work anymore.
23:24<i336>the two questions I have are, a) am I wrong about emdebian being unusable? b) do I actually need to be using debian squeeze on the x86_64 side in the first place?
23:27-!-piper_ [~piper@98.4.199.14] has joined #debian
23:27-!-piper_ is "Ralph Hokanson" on #debian-next #debian
23:29-!-annadane [~annadane@103.212.227.123] has joined #debian
23:29-!-annadane is "realname" on #debian
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23:32-!-mattcen [~mattcen@c220-237-129-57.sunsh21.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #debian
23:32-!-mattcen is "Matthew Cengia" on #debian-au #debian
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23:41-!-demo [~demo@120.17.74.249] has joined #debian
23:41-!-demo is "realname" on #debian
23:41<demo>in what dimension of the universe have i arrived?
23:41<annadane>the channel for debian support questions :P
23:42<dvs>again
23:45-!-dvs [~hibbard@00012127.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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23:48-!-mendelmunkis [~Moshe@ool-435467d5.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #debian
23:48-!-mendelmunkis is "realname" on #debian
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23:54-!-aindilis [~aindilis@172-12-3-117.lightspeed.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian
23:54-!-aindilis is "Andrew Dougherty" on #debian #chiglug
---Logclosed Wed Jun 19 00:00:31 2019