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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-07-01

---Logopened Mon Jul 01 00:00:48 2019
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00:05-!-dboehmer___ is "Daniel B\xF6hmer,,," on #debian
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00:43<finn0>Is Docker available on stretch stable repo? There is a docker-compose package but it's something else.
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00:47<noahm>finn0: It's not in stretch. Easiest way to install Docker on stretch is to use the apt repos published by Docker, Inc.
00:49<finn0>noahm: But according Don't break Debian guide I shouldn't use any third party repo. Is it safe to add their repo?
00:50<finn0>Is it in Buster? If so, I can wait till 6th July.
00:50<noahm>That is up to you. I have been using Docker's apt repos for stretch for some time and found them to be of reasonably high quality.
00:50<noahm>Docker will be included as part of buster.
00:51<finn0>noahm: Okay, Thanks.
00:54<somiaj>finn0: I belive it says don't use trusted third party repos, some actually do make good packages, others do not. But if someone makes a repo and builds against stretch libs, it is safe.
00:54<somiaj>arg don't use untrusted
00:55<rwp>Mostly the Don't Break Debian is concerned about people who include Ubuntu and Mint and other distribution repositories into their Debian system.
01:00<somiaj>some repos for debian can be poor too, but more and more there are decent thrid party repos out there
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01:01<somiaj>debmultimedia could often cause more problems than it solved, samed with some of the php repos, but now that a debian dev makes php a decent php repo, isn't as bad
01:03<finn0>I'm facing a problem with gnupg with quite sometime which I asked on #gnupg channel but didn't get proper respone. To fix this problem I've reboot the system which is quite annoying. Here, Screencast: https://share.riseup.net/#_9Mg5MJEKXjvHSP9Z1mCGA , transcript: https://share.riseup.net/#_rcVZc-amD8Oz3eL2AytnQ
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01:05<finn0>And my dirmngr config file https://share.riseup.net/#P-LNtM3aQfHGkPEPO46sow which is pretty much standard configuration.
01:09<finn0>somiaj, rwp: thanks.
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05:15<handsome_feng>Hi, I got this "This message has been automatically generated in response to the creation of a trouble ticket regarding ..." after I email to sso@rt.debian.org to register for a New Members account, Is it failed? Thanks!
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06:08<supaman>if I have an NFS mount that uses async option, if a client is writing to the mount and the client shuts down unexpectadly, can that mess up the file system on the NFS server?
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06:26<petn-randall>supaman: Not the filesystem, but the files.
06:26<supaman>petn-randall: ok, so they will be half written to
06:28<supaman>but if I use sync instead then if the client unexpectedly stops sending files then the server will not write to the file?
06:28<supaman>stops sending data to the file I mean
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06:41<petn-randall>supaman: "sync" only says that if the application requests that the data gets written to the filesystem, it really is written to the filesystem. With "async" the the OS just lies about it being written to the FS to the app.
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06:42<finn0>I'm reading "Use Third Party Debian Repo" article where it's mentioned "keys should be in /usr/share/kerings mustn't be placed in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d" but I've some keys (third party) which are placed in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/ folder with "root" as owner and "644" permission. Should I move these gpg keys to /usr/share/keyrings with proper verification or leave their since it's owned by root?
06:43<supaman>so in either case the file that is being written to is equally borked if the stream is broken before the end of file is received?
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06:53<grove>finn0: Do you have an url to that article?
06:54<finn0>grove: It's on Debian wiki https://wiki.debian.org/DebianRepository/UseThirdParty
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07:21<petn-randall>supaman: correct
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08:12<lbr>Hi there. https://security-team.debian.org/contact.html lists #debian-security on OFTC as the official point of contact. Is this (still) valid?
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08:13<themill>yes
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08:14<lbr>Channel seems to be empty... Some kind of misconfiguration on my end or just no-one is there and/or sec-team isn't fond of ZNC?
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08:15<themill>Kind of empty with 453 people there
08:16*lbr blames his IRC client.
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08:48<supaman>bug #869890 is irritating, and does not limit itself to many keys, it also shows up with only one key installed
08:48<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/869890 in gnome-keyring (open): «gnome-keyring breaks SSH logins»; severity: important; opened: 2017-07-27; last modified: 2019-05-19.
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10:16<tarzeau>is there some tool that can do in debian already, what this one does? https://github.com/OpenAcousticDevices/USB-HID-Tool
10:16<tarzeau>i wasn't able to find it. but maybe it's even possible with some /proc or /sys and shell commands?
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10:23<somiaj>tarzeau: not sure, why not just build that yourself? Also unsure what the goal is.
10:25<ach>!well
10:25<dpkg>That's a deep subject, ach.
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10:34<rslck>neovim package has python-neovim and python3-neovim in Recommends, but apt says "Package foo has no installation candidate". What's up with that?
10:36<jelly>rslck: which debian release?
10:36<jelly>!basic apt troubleshooting
10:36<dpkg>In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use https://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
10:36<jelly>rslck: ^
10:39<rslck>debian 9.9
10:43<lbr>rslck, https://bpaste.net/show/QcBs ? cat /etc/debian_version >> 9.9
10:44<jelly>,v python-neovim
10:44<judd>Package: python-neovim on amd64 -- buster: 0.3.0-1; sid: 0.3.0-1
10:44<rslck>http://paste.debian.net/1089903/
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10:44<jelly>rslck: looks like it might be broken in Debian 9
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10:45<lbr>Ouch, I have testing with low prio in sources. Disregard.
10:45<lbr>rslck, "pip/pip3 install --user" should do.
10:46<rslck>not sure if I wanna do that for root
10:47<jelly>you really do not
10:48<jelly>(use virtualenv, as normal user, if you need to pull lots of modules via pip to make a specific tool work)
10:48<jelly>I have no idea what functionality is missing when you don't have those packages.
10:49<rslck>plugins
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10:49<rslck>or whatever nvim calls it
10:51<rslck>hmm, I guess I'll have to survive w/o the python ones
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10:52<somiaj>rslck: they are just recommended packages (not sure how core they are), you coulud ignore them, and maybe neovim will still work somewhat
10:53<rslck>They're needed for python plugins
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10:57<somiaj>yea, looking at the history/bugs/etc, seems that the recommends were added with a reasonable time before the stretch freeze, but for some reason or another the actual python-neovim packages didnt' make it into stretch in time due to various bugs (and this recommended got overlooked)
10:58<lbr>somiaj, rslck, worth checking if _your particular_ plugins that _you actually need_ require Python2/3. NeoVim also supports Ruby and JS (Node), but is there a compelling reason to load those providers?
10:58<somiaj>you could try to backport the python-neovim packages, or grab them from snapshot.debian.org from the time stretch was testing (depends should meet, though you may find out why they never made it in)
10:59<somiaj>well in this case the recommends were added with the intention of the packages making it into stretch, but must have been overlooked during the actual freeze, release, and stuck around even though the packages didn't make it in.
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11:25<tarzeau>somiaj: i did, could it be useful to others? make it into debian?
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11:26<somiaj>tarzeau: I personally don't see the point, which I was wondering what it is used for. If you want to try to get it into debian you could package it and become a matainer.
11:27<tarzeau>somiaj: i need it for some piece of hardware that works with that tool
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11:33<lsjet>tarzeau, That's about a vague an answer possible, while still being a complete sentence. :)
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11:34<tarzeau>lsjet, somiaj: http://www.e-callisto.org/ that's the hardware
11:35<tarzeau>there's a module to reboot the antennaconnected module remotely (and itself)
11:35<tarzeau>and that module is controlled by usb-hid-tool :)
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11:36<somiaj>could be the demand for such software isn't that high, also looks fiarly easy to just build and install locally if one needs it.
11:36<lsjet>cool
11:37<somiaj>If you think it should be in debian, the basic methods are 1) file a wnpp request for package bug, and maybe someone will package/matain it. or 2) package it yourself and then look for a sponsor and matain the package.
11:37<tarzeau>somiaj: i know about the maintaining, https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=gurkan%40phys.ethz.ch ;)
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11:38<tarzeau>if someone is in a country missing on the map, and internet/power connection wants to have such instruments, ask me (the guy doing e-callisto.org has gifted me one for in Poland, he's got 5 more)
11:38<tarzeau>asia/australia/africa/antarctica would be nice
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11:57<drzacek>Hello there
11:58<drzacek>is there a way to tell when/if I installed a package?
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11:58<drzacek>http://paste.debian.net/1089906/
11:58<annadane>drzacek, just grep /var/log/apt/history.log (or older entries, debian keeps multiple logs as they age) for the package
11:59<annadane>it may be in history.log.1, or whatever it's called
11:59<annadane>search /var/log/apt
11:59<drzacek>I have issued 'install libsdl2-dev' today, and it shows in history.log okay
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11:59<drzacek>does that mean that the package was NOT installed before?
11:59<annadane>presumably, yes...
12:00<drzacek>I can recall there were some issues with this lib that cause all kinds of problems in my c++ application
12:00<drzacek>and I believe I had compiled libsdl2 from sources, and now overwritten it with that
12:00<drzacek>well, that's a guess, cause I suddenly how problems with it now and try to link it to the apt-get install command
12:01<dboles>you would need to describe these probleems
12:02<dboles>if you didn't want to install it, why did you?
12:03<drzacek>dboles, I suspect memory leak that in turn causes segfaults at random places
12:04<drzacek>well, I was trying to build a deb package for other lib, and put libsdl2-dev as depencdency there
12:04<drzacek>of course installing it failed, so I installed it
12:04<drzacek>and now regret it
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12:05<drzacek>tbh I thought that this issue was long gone
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13:05<user>hi
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13:05<dboles>!ask
13:05<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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14:00<annadane>can i get something debunked or proven? i've heard that checking the checksum for debian ISOs isn't strictly necessary because the installer performs the calculations anyway?
14:02<lsjet>That's silly.
14:03<lsjet>Maybe it does or doesn't. I don't know, but A hypothetically modified ISO could modify any behavior...so check yourself.
14:04<TobiX>If a MitM modiefied the ISO you downloaded, the installer would be modified to tell you everything is okay, so verify the ISO before starting it
14:04<dboles>yeah, seems totally circular to me
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14:05<lsjet>As a general rule: If you are relying on the file you just downloaded to tell you whether or not it is OK, you are doing it wrong.
14:05<annadane>i agree
14:08<lsjet>Speaking of trusting the wrong thing. I never fully grokked this apt vuln from January: https://www.debian.org/security/2019/dsa-4371
14:08<sdk>Well if someone has access to modify a ISO on Debian server then that person could also change the checksum file..
14:09<annadane>i honestly never read those security notices in full, and i probably should
14:09<annadane>i just upgrade the packages they affect
14:09<lsjet>Why would apt trust the webserver not to maliciously modify packages? Shouldn't it rely solely on signature checking of the ACTAUL downloaded package?
14:09<TobiX>sdk: Well, most of the time you download the ISO from a mirror, but read the checksum from the main Debian site
14:10<lsjet>Checksums can be shared and checked via secondary means and compared to others who've already got the file. Telling someone not to check is horrible advice
14:11<sdk>I'm only saying checksums aren't perfect security-wise
14:11<lsjet>oh certainly, but better than nothing
14:12<lsjet>I wish MD5 would die already. Some people still use it.
14:13<sdk>Doesn't Debian use key signing for the ISO?
14:15<annadane>i can't stand how vague https://www.debian.org/CD/verify is
14:15<annadane>i submitted a patch ages ago and it never got integrated
14:16<lsjet>Debian has a checksum file for each ISO and then a signature for the checksum file
14:17<TobiX>sdk: The shasum files are signed
14:19<jhutchins_wk>Corruption during transfer is far more likely than a maliciously altered installer. It's probably the most common reason for a failed install that we see here.
14:19<TobiX>lsjet: See the blog post about why the apt rce works: https://justi.cz/security/2019/01/22/apt-rce.html
14:20<annadane>https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-verify-an-authenticity-of-downloaded-debian-iso-images is still accurate, yeah?
14:20<annadane>it's "only" from 2015
14:20<annadane>i'm pretty sure it's fine
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14:21<TobiX>annadane: Looks correct
14:22<annadane>i really want to get that official debian page changed, it's not clear at all
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14:24<tarzeau>annadane: submit patches?
14:24<annadane>i did a while ago, it never got accepted
14:24<annadane>i may do that again
14:24<tarzeau>annadane: against www.debian.org package?
14:24<tarzeau>annadane: where can i see the ones you sent?
14:25<annadane>i actually lost the bug number, i can try to find it
14:25<tarzeau>annadane: try https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?submitter=name%40email.address
14:26<TobiX><meta name="Generator" content="WML 2.0.12 (16-Apr-2008)"> - It's still WML :'(
14:27<lsjet>TobiX, Yeah. This is the part I don't get: "The parent process will trust the hashes returned in the injected 201 URI Done response, and compare them with the values from the signed package manifest. Since the attacker controls the reported hashes, they can use this vulnerability to convincingly forge any package." <--- Why isn't APT comparing the actual final downloaded package signature before running anything? This seems..wrong, unless I am
14:27<lsjet>misunderstanding something.
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14:28<lsjet>Instead of calculating the hash from the file it downloaded and checking the signed manifest, it is comparing a RECEIVED hash against the signed manifest. This seems profoundly stupid.
14:28<TobiX>lsjet: That is a really good question - I thought the downloader processes were split from apt to protect against bugs in the network layer, so that input shouldn't be trusted at all
14:29<lsjet>Agreed. In fact I always assumed this until that CVE in January.
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14:32<TobiX>annadane: You can post merge requests against the repository nowaydays: https://salsa.debian.org/webmaster-team/webwml
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14:55<TobiX>lsjet: It seems the methods protocol is not designed as a security barrier... Running the download helpers as an untrusted user is "just" an afterthought (it seems) to provide a bit of separation...
14:56<TobiX>(Well, was not designed as such. I wonder if one could fix that by shuffling some responsibilities around)
14:56<lsjet>TobiX, but the vulnerability suggests there *isn't* a separate barrier as evidenced by the fact they could force download and execute unsigned packages.
14:57<lsjet>I would argue that any hash checking done there should be an 'optimization' and secondary to ACTUAL hash calculation of the package after it is downloaded. It would seem apt still doesn't do this, which actually scares the hell out of me.
14:58<TobiX>It was a logic bug in the protocol between the downloader process and the main apt process
14:58<TobiX>There is too much logic in the downloader process, yes
14:59<TobiX>lsjet: That interface was designed in 1998...
15:00<lsjet>To quote Adam Savage: "Ther'es your problem."
15:00<TobiX>lsjet: See https://salsa.debian.org/apt-team/apt/blob/master/doc/method.dbk
15:01<TobiX>By a cursory glance I would think that protocol is unsuitable as a "security" layer
15:02<TobiX>Mathods can say: "Yeah, I already know that file, it's located there on the file system, but it's now compressed with xz, but the MD5 sum of the gz was correct."
15:02<TobiX>Methods
15:03<lsjet>Yeah, that's bad
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15:08<lsjet>There's only one way which actually works - directly calculating the hash of the file after it is actually downloaded without relying on any transmitted metadata from the repo. Any other design is *fundamentally* flawed.
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15:24<annadane>do i have to go through all the rigamarole in https://wiki.debian.org/Firefox to get it to update itself? can't i just extract it to home and be done with it?
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15:27<annadane>i think it's just covering all use cases
15:31<lsjet>annadane, some of the things covered include setting it as the default browser, and creating a desktop launcher with icon. Not strictly necessary, but typically desired.
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15:48<Blacker47>!ops is channel limit set bot again not working?
15:48<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: blacker47 complains about a problem (see above)
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15:57*abrotman looks at debhelper
15:57-!-mode/#debian [+o debhelper] by ChanServ
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15:57<abrotman>let's see if that helps
15:58<abrotman>otherwise, the bot will have to be cycled
15:59-!-mode/#debian [+l 534] by debhelper
15:59<abrotman>Blacker47: happy now?!
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16:00<Blacker47>seems to work again.. but i'm afraid it will happen again and again.
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16:12<abrotman>it's software, sometimes software has bugs ...
16:13<lsjet>abrotman, s/sometimes/all/
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16:31<sqrt{not}>I think it gets de-opped during the occasional irc-quakes that cause mass disconnect/rejoining
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16:39<jhutchins_wk>sqrt{not}: netsplits
16:39<jhutchins_wk>sqrt{not}: It's when one or more servers looses connection to the irc network.
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16:53<sqrt{not}>jhutchins_wk: makes sense; thanks (I'm still new, even though I'm old -- still learning, luckily)
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18:33<Tjips>Hi. Where should I read up on resolving an EXPKEYSIG? I'm sure such resources exist, I'm just not finding them. Thanks.
18:33<somiaj>what do you mean resolving, is this some error you are getting?
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18:34<Tjips>Yes, when running 'apt-get update'; specifically for the OBS Project.
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18:34<Tjips>Whatever that may be...
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18:36<sarnold>Tjips: obs is probably opensuse build service
18:36<sarnold>Tjips: and expkeysig usually means a gpg key has expired, or a signatured has expired
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18:37<sarnold>Tjips: you can probably find an updated key at the obs webpages
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18:42<somiaj>Tjips: as sarnold said, get an updated key from whoever (seems opensuse) owns that repo and get a new key.
18:43<somiaj>you can comment out the source in /etc/apt/sources.list to avoid it for now, but if you want upgrades/new software from that third party repo, you'll have to update your key
18:43<Tjips>Thanks. I'll fish around. GPG keys are still a pain to maintain... :/
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18:45<somiaj>man apt-key can help too
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19:04<Tjips>Got it fixed :D. Turns out I just needed to go to the OBS page for the thing that was stuck (URL was in apt-get's output) and manually add the .key file contained at the repo it points to (via apt-key add). Thanks for the help friends :D
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19:08<jander>.
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19:57<d>hi
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19:58<Guest6481>good night
19:58<sarnold>hey Guest6481
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20:28<jimpop>i sure wish DSAs were timed with the mirrors
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20:29<jimpop>s/timed/aligned/
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20:52<pnf2>hey, how can I check what's the frequency, channel and 802.11 version of the wireless network I am connected to. Is there a way to check for that?
20:57<sdk>pnf2: if you use NetworkManger you could find that info with nmcli
20:57<somiaj>I think iw might contain that info on the command line too
20:57<somiaj>man iw
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20:59<blast007>pnf2: from a terminal: nmcli device wifi list
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21:03<pnf2>blast007, it worked thank you
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21:24<pnf2>how can I add widevine to chromium? I have the .so file but don't know where it should go
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21:28<sarnold>pnf2: take a look at /etc/ld.so.conf and /etc/ld.so.conf.d/* -- I'm guessing one of those paths would suffice
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21:34<pnf2>sarnold, should I move the files to that folder?
21:34<sarnold>pnf2: no
21:34<sarnold>pnf2: these configuration files describe which directories on the system are searched for shared libraries
21:34<sarnold>pnf2: it's my assumption that chromium will use this, if it is possible to drop in widevine after the fact
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21:39<somiaj>,v chromium-widevine
21:39<judd>Package: chromium-widevine on amd64 -- stretch/contrib: 70.0.3538.110-1~deb9u1; stretch-security/contrib: 73.0.3683.75-1~deb9u1
21:39<somiaj>why not use the package?
21:39<somiaj>oh I see, it isn't in buster anymore
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21:42-!-sidmo_ is "sidmo" on #debian-next #debian
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21:46-!-paxmark_ is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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21:52-!-paxmark is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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21:52-!-paxmark9 is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
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21:55-!-guzzt is "Guzzt" on #debian
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21:57-!-phebus is "Jonathan Phebus" on #debian
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21:59-!-}ls{ is "nobody" on #debian-nginx #debian-lan #debian-kde #debian-django #debian
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22:01-!-kts is "kts" on #debian-kde #debian-next #debian
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22:11-!-Kamilion is "I am kamilion. But you knew that, didn't you." on #tardigans #moocows #linode #debian-next #debian
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22:24-!-cdlu is "David Graham" on @#hackathon #debian #spi #oftc #oclug #pilots @#nmh
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22:53-!-cdlu is "David Graham" on @#nmh #pilots #oclug #oftc #spi #debian @#hackathon
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23:11-!-cootcraig is "Craig Anderson" on #suckless #morpheus #debian
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23:28-!-bodiccea is "bodiccea" on #kernelnewbies #bash #debian #debian-next #oftc
23:29-!-mode/#debian [+l 519] by debhelper
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23:51-!-oem is "realname" on #debian
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 02 00:00:08 2019