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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-07-10

---Logopened Wed Jul 10 00:00:01 2019
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02:25<alexmex90>hello room! I have been trying to use a Dell bluetooth mouse on my laptop but I am unable to pair it, I managed to get it working after running some commands on the bluetoothctl prompt, but it stopped working after a system reboot... what are you experiences with this kind of stuff?
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02:35<jm_>alexmex90: tried commands from ?
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02:36<alexmex90>No... let me give it a go
02:37<jm_>or as that seems old, maybe this helps
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02:39<alexmex90>yes, it seems indeed obsolete, looks like the 'hidd' command no longer works...
02:40<alexmex90>let me give a look to the second link
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02:46<alexmex90>after running: connect $mouse_mac_address
02:46<alexmex90>it returns
02:46<alexmex90>Failed to connect: org.bluez.Error.Failed
02:47<alexmex90>it seems like it paired, but when it tries to connect it drops it immediately
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02:53<marcus>is there a way to define a default umask for a specific user?
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02:57<jm_>marcus: possibly via pam_umask and its per user stuff?
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03:20<drzacek>Hello there
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03:20<drzacek>choosing default boot option in grub
03:21<drzacek>right now I edit the /etc/default/grub and change the GRUB_DEFAULT with something like "0>2"
03:21<drzacek>is there some neat script that does this a bit more deterministic?
03:22<drzacek>aka, I install new kernel and the update script changes the line to fit that new kernel?
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03:24<marcus>jm_, more per group. I am now using a profile.d script which looks like this [[ $(groups|grep www-data) ]] && umask 0007
03:24<marcus>but i am not sure if that's the best way to handle this.
03:25<jm_>marcus: that's the solution I'd go with over PAM stuff, I thought shell startup files are not an option :)
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03:26<chrizz>jmcnaught, petn-randall: I've read about mariadb, but I'm not entirely confident with it from what I've read. It might be a drop in replacement now, but from what I understood that might aswell change soon, in particular with MySQL 8. That might not be a problem though, but I'm interested in innodb in particular, and I'm not sure if that's something mariadb will invest in? I have to read more about that I
03:26<chrizz>guess. Thanks.
03:29<marcus>is it okay to use the stable suite in preseed like d-i mirror/suite string stable or should i better use the codename here. like buster.
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05:00<mq>morning. I have two questions for debian 10. First one:do i have to set unattended upgrades or similar for a regular search for updates or does it update automatically?
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05:04<mq> order to replace running apt-get update/upgrade
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05:11<mq>second question: /etc/apparmor/profiles/ is empty. Do i have to create profiles or is it allready configured after setup?
05:12<drzacek>kernel compilation, bindeb-pkg target - is there a "proper" way to influence the version of the package? Without editing automatically generated version files?
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05:21<mq>and one more question: is this a proper debian support channel or are there any specifications that a noob wouldn't know?
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05:22<alexmex90>hey mq, I think unattended-upgrades is setup automatically if you're using GNOME or at least in my installation was, what desktop are you running?
05:23<alexmex90>I think you will need to install the package unatteded-upgrades and gnome-software. or at least I have installed both, I'm not entirely sure if gnome-software is necessary
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05:29<marcus>jm_, i am playing around with pam_umask now. i have added the following two lines to common-session:
05:29<marcus>session [default=1 success=ignore] quiet user ingroup www-data
05:29<marcus>session optional umask=0007
05:29<marcus>but it does not seem to work.
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05:35<marcus>i am testing via ssh, maybe it's related.
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05:35<jm_>mq: it is proper channel for support questions - why do you think there should be files in /etc/apparmor/profiles?
05:36<jm_>marcus: maybe it gets overwritten via shell etc.?
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05:37<mq>jm_ i thought apparmor works based on application specific profiles in /etc/apparmor/profiles that are to be enforced
05:39<jm_>mq: as far as I can see they go into /etc/apparmor.d dir
05:40<mq>or managed by cli
05:41<marcus>jm, ah yes, by thanks for the hint.
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05:42*EmleyMoor is looking for a workaround for bug 931628
05:44<jm_>EmleyMoor: have you checked what activates the other two?
05:44<EmleyMoor>Er... "normality"
05:45<EmleyMoor>They are active and so they should be. The others are not active due to nothing activating them
05:46<EmleyMoor>I'm not familiar with the process at that point
05:46<jm_>yes, what is normality? does something run vgchange for them?
05:47<EmleyMoor>Presomably but I don't know how to do more than presume
05:47<EmleyMoor>Damned spelling
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05:48<jm_>surely debugging initramfs would reveal the answer?
05:48<EmleyMoor>I don't know how t
05:49<wolfmannight>Finally I fixed grub install failed on custom build
05:50<jm_>man initramfs-tools explains about debug option
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05:52<EmleyMoor>jm_: That gives me a bullet, but loading the gun is another matter
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05:53<Guest7142>what can you do for me
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05:53<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
05:55<mq>one last question: can anyone think of a different method to run a bash-script with privileges, than creating an according systemd-unit?
05:55<mq>at shutdown*
05:55<wolfmannight>This happy customer not able to register on IRC
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05:56<bremner>mq: see /etc/init.d/rc.local
05:56<wolfmannight>IDENTIFY password not logins me 🥺
05:57<mq>wolfmannight have you tried IDENTIFY wolfmannight password?
05:58<EmleyMoor>I need to "boot with" an option... I'm not sure how to go about it
05:58<wolfmannight>Yahh it's says successfully identify as wolfmannight
05:58<wolfmannight>But still can't join #debian-live
05:59<wolfmannight>Got it
05:59<wolfmannight>Now it's join
05:59<EmleyMoor>Looks like if I don't try it and see I might not get anywhere... so I will
05:59<jm_>EmleyMoor: you will find info how to edit a boot entry in grub at the bottom of the screen, just add "debug" to the end of the line with kernel options
06:00<jm_>EmleyMoor: so some stuff about it is in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/*/lvm2, i.e. functions like lvchange_activate and activate
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06:01<jm_>so I suppose with debug you should at least see which scripts it calls etc.
06:02<jm_>EmleyMoor: have you found ?
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06:03<jm_>929437 might also be worth looking at
06:04<EmleyMoor>... ah, it's a kernel option? That would explain why I'm having problem
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06:06<jm_>man page says Kernel Command Line :)
06:08<EmleyMoor>915488 is possible
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06:09<EmleyMoor>929437 is the same thing in Gibberish
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06:11<mq>do the scripts in init.d get a sigterm command when shutting down?
06:11<EmleyMoor>Yes... point is, stuff like this shouldn't be breaking, really... fog and knitting needles seem to be the order of the day
06:12<EmleyMoor>mq: No, they are normally run with "stop" options by /etc/rcX.d scripts (or similar)
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06:16<EmleyMoor>915488 fix actually won't apply
06:19<EmleyMoor>Don1t think 929437 applies as I seem not to have the rule
06:20<EmleyMoor>Ah, I do!
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06:22<koffkoff>Hi, I have a service (a.service) that I want to restart when it fails and restart whenever b.service is restarted, systemd has support for this, but they seem to work bad together, is this a bug?
06:22<EmleyMoor>Right - test time (though I have my doubts still!)
06:22<koffkoff>here is an example:
06:24<EmleyMoor>No, but it may be worth making it look more like the patch
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06:29<EmleyMoor>Still no go so putting it back AIW
06:30<EmleyMoor>OK, will have to do the debug and see if I can find where it puts it
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06:39<EmleyMoor> - relevant portion of debug showing / found and /usr not
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06:50<jm_>the difference is local_device_setup /dev/mapper/gw00-gw--root 'root file system' vs. local_device_setup 'UUID=dcc5aaf9-7e67-4182-9d22-5531cb4ff42f' '/usr file system'
06:53<EmleyMoor>jm_: I admit that's *a* difference... but is it significant?
06:53<EmleyMoor>(are you saying /dev/mapper references should be used in /etc/fstab)
06:54<EmleyMoor>(... or that that should be tried as a next step?)
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06:56<jm_>EmleyMoor: I don't know, I just noticed it - I was hoping we would see where activation happens, but maybe debug is not enough for that - I would try and stick "set -x" as second line in all initramfs lvm2 scripts
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06:57<EmleyMoor>jm_: Not even certain where I'd find them...
06:58<jm_>another thing - I only ever used lvm with centos for iscsi and there activation happened as result of udev rules, after we had to comment them out, we needed to manually activate them like you're experiencing now
06:58<jm_>EmleyMoor: /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/*/lvm2
06:58<jm_>and */*lv2m
07:01<EmleyMoor>2 found. Will install, reboot... debug needed again?
07:01*EmleyMoor is assuming so if nothing said
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07:04<jm_>no, it should just show it on stderr with set -x
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07:05<mq>is rc.local used any further on debian 10?
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07:06<jm_>mq: does /etc/init.d/rc.local still exist?
07:06<jelly>,f etc/init.d/rc.local
07:06<jelly>judd, ping
07:06<jm_>maybe not then
07:07<bremner>it does in my buster systems but they were upgraded...
07:07<mq>so you stick with systemV
07:07<bremner>it says that file belongs to the package initscripts
07:07<jelly>$ systemctl status rc.local
07:08<jelly>[...] Loaded: masked (Reason: Unit rc.local.service is masked.)
07:08<mq>loaded, enabled
07:08<EmleyMoor> anyway - not sure how I'd extract stderr at that point
07:08<jelly>it's masked here and it wasn't me who masked it
07:09<jelly>mq, you could install the package and reenable it, if you wanted
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07:09<mq>rd.local relates with systemctl?
07:09<jelly>but it's probably saner to just set up separate units for things you want to run
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07:10*EmleyMoor will probably have to try a supervised reboot - needed?
07:10<jm_>EmleyMoor: if I look at scripts-top/lvm2, which we see getting called, it only calls activate if it's called with one of fe[0-9]*, /dev/root, /dev/mapper/* or /dev/*/*, but for you it gets called with UUID=dcc5aaf9-7e67-4182-9d22-5531cb4ff42f
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07:11<jm_>so that's why it works for root, because it gets called with /dev/mapper/gw00-gw--root
07:11<EmleyMoor>jm_: Ah... so try /dev/mapper refs in fstab? (I'm happy to)
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07:12<jm_>EmleyMoor: yeah try that, but if this worked in stretch, it would be nice to debug why
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07:15<EmleyMoor>jm_: Indeed but Tesco rule also applies
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07:17<EmleyMoor>Clean boot
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07:26<jm_>EmleyMoor: well at least you can add info to that bug report to help someone else running into this
07:26<EmleyMoor>jm_: Already have
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07:39<luizromario>Hello. Is anyone else having trouble updating from Discover?
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07:45<jm_>what is discover?
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07:53<mq>koffkoff: Binding unit a to unit b instead of b to a could help.
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07:58<koffkoff>mq: Thanks, that seems to do what I want (why didn't I think of that :X).
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08:43<blackhat>anybody see me
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08:44<en4rab>good afternoon, has anyone reported any issues with upgrading to debian 10 causing putty to no longer connect, I have somehow ended up in a situation where running ssh on my windows machine i can connect but if i attempt to use putty the connection is closed and systemctl status ssh.service shows Bad packet length xxxxxx. [preauth]
08:44<blackhat>i need a help
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09:30<xonorc>Try change the ssh server configuration file in /etc/ssh/sshd_config to use both protocol 2 and 1 and restart the ssh server using "/etc/init.d/sshd restart" and it might working.
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09:49<EmleyMoor>2 out of 5 of my machines are now on buster and a third is in progress
09:50<EmleyMoor>(of the other two, one I want to image and remake, the other will be last to be done)
09:55<themill>did you figure out the lvm problem?
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09:56<EmleyMoor>themill: Yes... at least to the extent that I've implemented a workaround. Volumes are not activated if a 'UUID=...' is passed to one of the lvm2 scripts in the initrd. If you use /dev/mapper/... in the fstab, it works.
09:57<themill>ah, the installer just sets it up with /dev/mapper which is why I never noticed
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10:01<EmleyMoor>Just found my Buffalo disk PSU, which may help image my laptop - I want to set it up afresh, but with a quick way back if not good
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10:10<EmleyMoor>Using grml to image my laptop to the external disk
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10:31<DrZaius>When i connect an sdcard, it gets auto mounted as root. I have this problem from time to time with usb as well. fstab has no weird entries (aka only /dev/vgroup/disk* entries)
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10:32<DrZaius>Im in xfce now and using caja as file manager, but its happened many times with many different configurations. I usually just chown -R and called a day, but i decided to investigate further today
10:33<azhrol>how can i install gnome
10:34<DrZaius>sudo apt install task-gnome-desktop
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10:37<DrZaius>Last i can find is this bug that is still open #767233
10:37<judd>Bug in udisks2 (open): «udisks2: Not mounting with user permissions (even vfat!)»; severity: important; opened: 2014-10-29; last modified: 2015-11-05.
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10:45<jhutchins_wk>DrZaius: You can create an fstab entry that sets rw permissions either by device or by UUID.
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10:50<DrZaius>jhutchins_wk, i could, but i can just chown -R... im trying to find the cause of this, because it happens fairly often tbh
10:50<DrZaius> /media/DrZaius owner is DrZaius as well
10:51<DrZaius>im trying to fsck the disk and i get this error now :/
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10:51<DrZaius>how can it be not mounted and still busy
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10:53<jhutchins_wk>DrZaius: It's been the default since systems started auto-mounting drives.
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10:54<DrZaius>jhutchins_wk, so if it doesnt find the fstab entry, it doesnt use the defaults for auto mounting drives?
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10:56<jhutchins_wk>DrZaius: The defaults are root owned, read only.
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10:57<DrZaius>Okay, so thats the problem here for sure
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11:10<DrZaius>jhutchins_wk, where can i change the defaults so it mounts usb as user owned and rw with the label of the disk under /media/$USER/$LABEL ?
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11:10<DrZaius>I added this to my fstab -> /dev/sdf1 /media/usb0 auto rw,user,noauto 0 0 and it mounted it in /media/usb0 but as root again
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11:11<DrZaius>although alsmost everything under /media is owned by root
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11:19<DrZaius>Id like to leave my system in the same state that is after installation where a new clueless person would just connect an usb disk and have it auto mount it for the user with rw permissions without having to touch fstab
11:20<DrZaius>I hope is not asking for too much :)
11:23<jhutchins_wk>DrZaius: It's been that way for years, I don't know why nobody has addressed it at a system level. It's cross-distribution, not just a debian issue.
11:24<DrZaius>You mean derivates or brother distributions. Because this has definitely happened to me in ubuntu too sometimes
11:25<DrZaius>But sometimes, it works and mount the usb for the user with rw, so something else must be doing the work there
11:25<lsjet>DrZaius, depends on the machine's purpose. On a server you might not want that.
11:26<lsjet>although it does seem to be the case that most people want/expect
11:27<jmcnaught>DrZaius: I don't know if xfce/caja would use udisks2 for automounting but you could run 'udisksctl monitor' (as regular user) to watch for clues when you insert the USB drive
11:27<lsjet>DrZaius, what filesystem on the drive?
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11:28<DrZaius>lsjet, Yeah, i mean most of the time it works like that if you have x11 installed... but sometimes, randomly for me, it just doesnt work
11:29<DrZaius>lsjet, vfat
11:29<lsjet>If it's fat, use the uid, gid options
11:29<lsjet>I believe that is the issue
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11:35<DrZaius>This is the udisksctl monitor log when connected
11:36<DrZaius>lsjet, what do you mean? in the fstab entry?
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11:37<lsjet>DrZaius, you mentioned an fstab entry earlier: /dev/sdf1 /media/usb0 auto rw,user,noauto 0 0
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11:39<DrZaius>lsjet, yeah, id like to get it removed tbh. As id like to not have specific entry per external device connected
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11:39<lsjet>You can use uid,gid to set the owner. You can set the umask too. That will help if you need it to work for multiple users.
11:40<DrZaius>oh, okay like uid=1000,gid=1000, right? Yeah that would work
11:40<DrZaius>but id still prefer get it removed, and have it work by default without having to add entries in fstab :s
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11:41<DrZaius>basically because not every dedive is going to tbe sdf1 or vfat or wanted it mounted in usb0
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11:41<lsjet>Not sure how to do that. I don't use udisks. You could probably manage it with a udev rule or something. The issue revolves around the fact that fat has no file permissions like other file systems, so all the ownership stuff is faked by the driver.
11:44<MeaTLoTioN>is there an issue with buster and using the iso in gPXE? Either there's a bug or I'm being a typical n00b/tit... got a pxe menu item for it, it boots into the installer, go through the language and keyboard options thing, then it complains that it needs to get more info from a cdrom and cannot find any cdroms and so asks to retry scanning for a cdrom or abort the install. what have I done wrong or... is there really an issue?
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11:46<EmleyMoor>3 out of 5 machines upgraded, but unfortunately most recent is incomplete as some third party packages I need are not yet built
11:46<DrZaius>I see... I give up to make it work by default. I will add the fstab entry everytime i connect a new device. I already spent an hour on this. Thanks guys!
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11:57<andeyweever>upgraded my desktop from Debian GNU/Linux 9 -> 10. Anyway to turn off the annoying "auto transparency" in the GNOME bar at the top of the screen.
11:59<andeyweever>This seems to be some new hipster blinky stuff. Was not there in Stretch.
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12:15<Asuran>how often does programms like kde get update in a release until next major one? like buster has now kde 5.14, will it stick to it until end of the release?
12:17<bremner>almost certainly yes
12:17<bremner> exists, but kde is unlikely to be backported
12:18<Asuran>and how does it behave on testing?
12:18<Asuran>is it rolling release like if i would stay on testing?
12:18<bremner>I can't understand your second question. Are you asking if testing is a rolling release?
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12:24<Asuran>how about chromium, is there any apt sources that could be added to get newer versions
12:26<coruja>chromium and firefox-esr will be upgraded regularly, as exceptions
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12:27<Asuran>ok and last: can i install debian as testing directly or do i need upgrade
12:29<jmcnaught>Asuran: there are some caveats with testing, such as security updates are delayed.
12:30<Asuran>is the kernel optimized for desktop use or does some extra patched kernel exist
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12:30<Asuran>or is it suitable for all
12:31<EmleyMoor>It fits most needs. Only if you need something unusual would you need to roll your own
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12:32<Asuran>i saw in other distros zen-kernel for example
12:32<EmleyMoor>A few ready-rolled specials may exist
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12:33<Asuran>i give it a try thx
12:33<sqrt{not}>Asuran: if you want to install testing directly, you can. It is probably almost identical to buster/stable at this point, but here is a URL:
12:34<Asuran>yea but i try stable first maybe its enough
12:34<Asuran>software seems not too old on buster
12:34<Asuran>freetype seems latest even
12:34<sqrt{not}>right. good choice
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12:40<daggs1>Greetings, what is the proper way to list the pkg install history?
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12:41<annadane>daggs1, less /var/log/apt/history.log
12:42<annadane>or cat /var/log/apt/history.log
12:43<daggs1>annadane, I have only one day there
12:43<annadane>then you probably have older history files
12:43<annadane>do ls /var/log/apt and see which ones
12:43<daggs1>found them, thanks
12:45<daggs1>ok, found the possible suspects, how can I revert to previous version?
12:47<dpkg>Downgrading is not, nor will ever be supported by apt. Programs change their data in a way that can't be rolled back, and package maintainer scripts support upgrades to new config file formats but not downgrades. Try: "dpkg -i olderversion.deb" or "aptitude install package=version" using "apt-cache policy package" to get the old version number. See also <partial downgrade>, <unstable->testing>, <sdo>.
12:48<jhutchins_wk>daggs1: You need to purge the current version, then install the older one. You'll probably have to get that from the snapshot site, /msg dpkg snapshots
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12:56<daggs1>I see, well I hope there is an update to libvirt or the downgrade is easy...
12:57<annadane>what's wrong with libvirt?
12:57<daggs1>I think it has a bug in the usb passthrough
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13:00<lsjet>I gave up on libvirt some time ago. I just use qemu/kvm directly now.
13:00<jmcnaught>USB passthrough working with libvirt here on buster (and stretch before that)
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13:01<Asuran>jmcnaught: but if theres as bug
13:03<Asuran>oh he left
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13:13<annadane>i actually used to think downgrading from backports was supported
13:13<annadane>which was a silly assumption
13:13<annadane>i've run so many debian installs into the ground :P
13:14<mahe>hey guys, some kind of emergency situation here: I started upgrading from stretch to buster using 'apt upgrade' in a terminal. During the process the screen on tty7 where the terminal is running turned black with only the cursor blinking. I can access tty 1 to 6 though.
13:15<mahe>I suspect apt is currently stuck on a question about some config file on the tty7 terminal which I can't see or access anymore. Is there any way to detach the apt process from the tty7 terminal and access it from another tty instead?
13:15<mahe>sadly it's not running in a screen session or anything similar, just the plain command ...
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13:17<jmcnaught>mahe: you might have no other option but to kill the upgrade process and start it again in a screen session this time, fixing any problems that causes
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13:20*EmleyMoor has figured one previously-unknown thing out... how to boot up the Debian installer using UEFI
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13:22<sqrt{not}>mahe: are you SURE you were on tty7 ? tried cycling through other ttys ?
13:23<mahe>sqrt{not}, 100% sure - I can still see the cursor flashing on key press when switching to tty7
13:24<mahe>(I can also move the cursor, but the rest of the screen is black)
13:25<mahe>thank goodness, I revived it!
13:25<EmleyMoor>If I boot the installer in UEFI, does it also use GPT?
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13:27<mahe>It was mate-screensaver being stuck at a black screen (broken by the upgrade I suppose). I did suspect this when it turned black but "killall mate-screensaver" complained about it not running. I grep'ed the ps output and saw it running, so I used its PID to kill it et voila: screen back!
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13:27<mahe>so basically, it was mate-screensaver and killall misbehaving
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13:29<mahe>lesson learnt, next time I do an upgrade, I'll turn off X11 and do it in a screen session on a tty
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13:31<cj>is there a channel for cloud image related topics?
13:31<cj>looks like maybe #debian-cloud
13:32<annadane>!win mahe
13:32<dpkg>Congratulations, mahe! You have won the US presidency!
13:34<lsjet>not a moment too soon
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13:37<EmleyMoor>Well, this install is a lot more "informative" than the original one I did in 2013
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13:38<EmleyMoor>"The installer is now overwriting SCSI1 (0,0,0), partition #3 (sda) with random data to prevent meta-inform" - not bad
13:38<EmleyMoor>There's a progress bar but no figure
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13:42<EmleyMoor>In 2013 it seemed to sit, uninformative, at this stage for a long time... but I let it get on
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13:44<ServerOk>on older debian, there was a package "monit" to monitor services. I used it to restart apache/nginx/mysql etc.. if they go down. On Debian 10, this package is missing. Any idea why ?
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13:45<pjain>I am trying to understand the PGP encryption and how we use it in Debian to encrypt and send mails to lists/etc. What would be a good place to learn about it? I read about PGP basics but unable to understand the way to implement it practically.
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14:07<annadane>does clamav with clamav-freshclam work out of the box or do you have to configure something first to get it to download virus definitions from the internet?
14:09<ServerOk>you don't need to configure anything
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14:24<jhutchins_wk>annadane: The only thing clamav does is satisfy auditors that an "antivirus program" is installed. It does not protect against viruses.
14:26<lsjet>just like all other antivirus products. :)
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14:26<jhutchins_wk>AVG is actually pretty good.
14:27<jhutchins_wk>mahe: That's always the more certain way to kill a process, pkill and killall are prone to failure.
14:29<annadane>jhutchins_wk, what's the more certain way?
14:30<jhutchins_wk>The one I know is AVG, which at least used to be free for personal use.
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14:31<jhutchins_wk>Since I don't have any Miscrosoft or exposed systems I don't worry about it these days.
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14:42<annadane>jhutchins_wk, no, i mean the more certain way to kill a process
14:43<annadane>your reply to mahe
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14:50<jhutchins_wk>annadane: Find the PID and do a kill <pid>
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14:55<jhutchins_wk>Better yet, kill -<sig> <pid>
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15:05<rah>I just upgraded to Buster and my scanner has stopped working due to permissions; it seems libsane now sets a udev TAG of "uaccess" and this is supposed to make the device accessible to logged in users but apparently it's a systemd thing and I don't use systemd; (how) should setting a udev TAG of "uaccess" allow users to access devices in systems that don't run systemd?
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15:07<rah>I can't find any useful information on the web or looking through the myriad manpages
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15:10<ServerOk> /msg dpkg 9.9
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15:11<rah>the problem here is not really that my scanner doesn't work but that I don't understand how this "uaccess" TAG is meant to affect the system
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15:13<rah>can anyone help?
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15:14<sarnold>rah: probably the end outcome is to set acls on devices to allow logged in users to interact with the device
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15:14<sarnold>rah: you could set the group ownership of the device to a scanner group, add user accouts that should be able to use the scanner to the scanner group, and set modes to allow the scanner group to read and write the scanner device
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15:19<lsjet>rah, sarnold is probably right. I've done that to grant user access to device nodes before. I imagine systemd just looks for the tag and does something similar.
15:22<lsjet>rah, judging from this link, that's exactly what it does:
15:22<rah>sarnold: thanks but as I said above, the problem here is not really that my scanner doesn't work but that I don't understand how this "uaccess" TAG is meant to affect the system
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15:27<rah>lsjet: what looks for the tag in systems without systemd?
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15:29<lsjet>rah, nothing I suppose
15:30<rah>lsjet: that's a disturbing answer
15:31<rah>sarnold: I don't understand why you're showing me that link
15:32<sarnold>rah: you wanted to know what the uaccess tag does and where it's used. that's where it is used.
15:32<rah>sarnold: I don't use systemd
15:32<sarnold>rah: I know
15:33<rah>sarnold: so that code doesn't run on my system
15:33<sarnold>rah: that is why I'm showing you from the sources, because I know you can't just edit the file on your own system to see what it does :)
15:33<rah>sarnold: thanks but that doesn't actually help me
15:33<sarnold>rah: you wanted ot know what the udev TAG does. this is what it does.
15:33<sarnold>rah: I'm not sure what else is left :)
15:33<jmcnaught>rah: did you simply replace systemd as init, or did you remove all systemd packages from your system? You might be able to use the elogind package as an alternative to systemd-logind
15:33<rah>sarnold: I'm trying to understand how this is intended to work on systems without systemd
15:34<sarnold>rah: it doesn't have any meaning outside of systemd
15:34<bremner>well, maybe elogind understands it?
15:34<sarnold>rah: outside of systemd, you set permissions on your devices as you want
15:34<rah>jmcnaught: I have elogind installed
15:34<sarnold>I checked elogind docs but saw no mention of them trying to emulate the device acls
15:34<sarnold>it looked like its there just to let you use programs that expect dbus apis to exist
15:35<jmcnaught>rah: and libpam-elogind? I don't know how well it replaces logind and libpam-systemd.
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15:35<lsjet>rah, sarnold is right. Just make a udev rule to set the perms you want. It's much less difficult than it sounds.
15:35<rah>jmcnaught: libpam-elogind wasn't installed when I logged in but it is now
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15:37<jmcnaught>rah: from what I understand you can continue to use logind without systemd as init but I haven't tested this
15:39<rah>lsjet: I could create new udev rules for every device I plug in to my system forever more but I don't really want to do that; it sounds like basically Debian has taken on a systemd-specific device access mechinism and there is no support now for providing the same functionality in non-systemd systems
15:39<rah>which is why I said your answer was disturbing
15:39<jmcnaught>You could just use systemd
15:40<rah>I could
15:40<rah>there are other things I could do too
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15:40<rah>I think I'll do the other things
15:41<bremner>you could file a wishlist bug; support for non-standard configs tends to be a bit spotty here
15:41<bremner>it's just a volunteer help channel after all
15:42<lsjet>rah, in a perfect world, yes. I don't use systemd either. I've given up on most of the world though.
15:42<sarnold>I'm not even sure it'd be worked on -- folks who don't run systemd don't usually want the systemd features either
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15:43<lsjet>rah, you can write a rule to act on devices with the tag if I'm not mistaken. So one new rule, not one per device.
15:45<lsjet>seems a small price to pay for a systemd free existence. :)
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15:47<rah>if it's such a small price, I find it disturbing that those who added a lintian rule to stipulate systemd-specific udev TAGs didn't pay it already
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15:51<jhutchins_wk>rah: Some of the people who build these things for you don't support non-systemd systesm.
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15:51<lsjet>rah, valid point but I think the chances of getting someone to care are slim to none. I just configure things for myself these days.
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15:52<lsjet>rah, I've since decided that things like the FHS, LSB, and all those other so-called 'standard' aren't worth the electrons they're printed on. Just configure stuff in a way that works for you.
15:55<lsjet>rah, I only use Debian for a handful of things that I haven't yet got working on linux from scratch. Until then I deal with the annoyance of having to counteract systemd creep occasionally.
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16:03<bremner>If more non-systemd users would help with debian, it would probably provide a better experience for non-systemd users.
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16:05<bremner>in my own package maintainance work, I generally welcome contributions to fix non-systemd use cases, but I rarely have the expertise and motivation to fix them myself.
16:07<lsjet>bremner, maybe. I think a lot of people allergic to systemd have already moved on to distros they feel will better support their choices. *shrugs*
16:08<lsjet>in my case, any package that has a hard dependency on systemd gets a hard pass.
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18:05<EmleyMoor>I'm not happy with the partitioning as set up by the buster installer but can see no way to change the volume size... can someone advise?
18:06<jmcnaught>EmleyMoor: LVM linear volumes? On the partitioner main menu go to "Configure LVM" and in that menu you can at least delete and create volumes.
18:07<jmcnaught>I can't remember at which stage, but the buster installer now asks if you want free space on the LVM volume group.
18:07<EmleyMoor>It's not very intuitive
18:10<EmleyMoor>e.g. it's creating possibly irrelevant filesystems in the volumes it picked... that's backwards
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18:28<EmleyMoor>Aim is to have my laptop "functional" again by bedtime tomorrow - be that on buster or reverted to stretch
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19:05<EmleyMoor>Booting buster, reached "Started GNOME Display Manager" fsckd-cancel-msg now showing... any way to tell whether to cancel or let proceed?
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19:15<marc0815>When I do cryptsetup open --type plain /dev/sdf1 xyz (on buster) I get "WARNING: Device /dev/sdf1 already contains a 'atari' partition signature." and "Proceeding further may damage existing data.". (On Stretch it worked fine without any warnings)
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20:26<aleon1220>is my first time navigating in an IRC channel. So i have an issue with a debian 7 attempt to do apt update. and i just found out that the virtualized environment has aptitude. Can someone help me here or do i need to select a topic?
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20:28<petn-randall>aleon1220: Everything Debian-related is on-topic, so feel free to ask. If someone knows the answer, they'll respond. It might take quite a while though, as it's not the busiest time of the day.
20:29<rjsalts>aleon1220: as in you're using the aptitude frontend to apt and it's confusing you?
20:30<aleon1220>when i do aptitute update i get the error
20:30<rjsalts>aleon1220: put the error on a paste site, e.g.
20:31<aleon1220>i will. The virtual box machine doesnt have the vbox guest additions so i have to literally transcribe the thing
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20:33<somiaj>debian 7 has been archived, you probably need to update your mirrors
20:34<dpkg>Wheezy is the current <oldoldstable> release, Debian 7, released on 2013-05-04: ; security support ended on 2016-04-25. Wheezy is the rubber toy penguin with a red bow tie. See and ask me about <install wheezy> <wheezy release notes> <wheezy->jessie>. Final update <7.11>. Consider upgrading.
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20:36<dpkg>A command-line tool to send data to a <pastebin>. To paste e.g. your sources.list do "aptitude install pastebinit; pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list"; to paste the output of a program do e.g. "dmesg 2>&1 | pastebinit". See also <pastebinit config>, <nopaste>.
20:36<somiaj>aleon1220: ^^ there are ways to paste directly from the machine if it has internet access.
20:37<aleon1220>ok i got it. :
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20:37<aleon1220>yes i am happy to upgrade to a stable version 7
20:38<somiaj>I don't know what you mean by that, but wheezy I think is only supported by etls (which is very minimial) at this time
20:38<aleon1220>then later on to version 8 or whatsoever. Debian is quite awesome but i am still CLI newbie
20:38<somiaj>debian 10 was just released, your a a bit behind, but you can upgrade, though lets fix your current problem. Upgrades require time and palnning
20:39<somiaj>hmm, lets take a look at your /etc/apt/sources.list file
20:39<somiaj>I think you have 'stable' there which means you might be running some strange mix (depending on if you have upgraded or not)
20:40<aleon1220>yes that one i have been checking. I will send it as a new paste. I must confirm before proceeding that i do have internet access.
20:41<rjsalts>aleon1220: looks like you've probably got a proxy or something which you can't resolve the hostname of
20:42<aleon1220>i have internet access and only 1 line in the sources.list:
20:42<somiaj>Though there maybe other problems there if they are looking for 'stable' (which just changed to buster) but their issue says they are running debian 7. Could be years of mixing releases
20:42<aleon1220>deb stable main contrib
20:43<rjsalts>aleon1220: wheezy hasn't been stable for a long time now, so if you did succeed in retrieving that URL you'd be jumping quite a few releases
20:43<somiaj>aleon1220: the fact that this says debian 7 worries me, you shouldn't use 'stable' in your sources.list for various reasons, this is one.
20:43<somiaj>and you don't want to upgrade from wheezy to buster directly, you still have jessie and stretch to go trhough.
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20:43<rjsalts>those kind of upgrades tend to be traumatic for the user
20:43<somiaj>rjsalts: how old is this vm, when was it last updated, when did you create this sources.list, you may (depending on what this vm is for) just reinstall
20:44<rjsalts>aleon1220: ^^
20:45<rjsalts>aleon1220: check in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d or what have you for a proxy
20:45<somiaj>rjsalts: thanks
20:46<aleon1220>well it was 2014. It has an apache2 and a VCS or two inside. it was working fine but then my host OS got messed up and now i am struggling trying to just reconfigure this. I ended up here because i tried to install vbox guest additions to copy/paste commands from clipboard and is always annoying me about the update
20:46<aleon1220>is it feasible to use a .ISO with debian 7.x latest to just set things by default and then upgrade to the next version?
20:46<rjsalts>aleon1220: change the apt sources url back to wheezy directly, it won't be on anymore
20:47<rjsalts>aleon1220: you'll need to change it to wheezy ...
20:48<aleon1220>ok on it
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20:49<rjsalts>aleon1220: and you could just try rgrep -l debcache /etc/apt or something
20:49<rjsalts>aleon1220: to see where your proxy is configured
20:49<aleon1220>now is like this:
20:49<aleon1220>deb wheezy main contrib
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20:51<rjsalts>that's correct
20:52<aleon1220>the output from the command suggested by <rjsalts> provides: /etc/apt/apt.conf
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20:53<aleon1220>i am going to use imagepaste if is ok:
20:55<aleon1220>i tried the apt-get update again and is brining that error about the .gpg key : Release.gpg
20:55<aleon1220> Could not resolve 'debcache'
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20:58<rjsalts>aleon1220: remove that from your config, or point to your debcache host via /etc/hosts or something
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20:59<rjsalts>aleon1220: it would be my guess that there was an aptcacherng instance on your network at one point in time
21:00<aleon1220>i dont know what is aptcacherng. So what you are saying is to remove everything from /etc/apt/apt.conf i guess i can comment that out.
21:01<aleon1220>what to do with /etc/hosts?
21:02<rjsalts>aleon1220: if you knew which host your apt proxy was on you could put it's ip address in /etc/hosts with for example debcache
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21:03<rjsalts>aleon1220: but if you don't know this information then just remove the proxy setting and go direct to
21:04<aleon1220>yeah i dont mind about that static IP for now
21:04<aleon1220>i am doing apt-get update and at least is fetching stuff. It might take some time
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21:05<aleon1220>ok it succeeded but there is one warning.
21:06<aleon1220>W: There is no public key available for the following key IDs: 7638D0772B90D010
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21:07<aleon1220>i am halting and taking snapshot
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21:13<aleon1220>OK i will upgrade. I am so excited is the first time i am doing something like this with so many advanced Linux people
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21:14<somiaj>make sure you upgrade one release at a time wheezy->jessie, then jessie->stretch, then stretch->buster, though since you could be mixing debian releaes (using stable in your sources.list, I would recommend a backup data/reinstall approach)
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21:17<aleon1220>sure. thanks,. i will have to do some design on how this is going to look in vm boxes and then in containers. As for now i thank you.. i will install the vbox guest additions first. then once is working i will post this work-around in stack overflow, finally i will update you guys on the post as it might help someone in the future.
21:17<aleon1220>thanks a lot
21:18<rjsalts>aleon1220: not so much make sure as if you skip releases you're going to have a bad time
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21:19<somiaj>another agrument for fresh install, since you'd have to upgrade/check with three upgrades to get to buster, an install might be cleaner and faster.
21:20<aleon1220>sure i will be careful.
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21:55<jlsantos>Hello. What do people usually use to backup their home directory?
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22:01<luizromario>Hello. So, is anyone else unable to update from Discover after the Buster update?
22:03<somiaj>jlsantos: I like rsync myself, and it can be very versitle to make additional backups if needed
22:03<somiaj>jlsantos: but it does require reading the man page and thinking about what options you want
22:03<jmcnaught>luizromario: is that a KDE package manager? What error message are you getting? Were you running buster before it was stable?
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22:05<luizromario>jmcnaught: that's the KDE software store thing, yes
22:05<jlsantos>somiaj: Thanks for your response! I'm exploring backup methods, and I am currently reading the rsync man page. :)
22:05<luizromario>And, no, I wasn't running Buster before it was stable
22:06<jmcnaught>luizromario: are you able to 'apt update' from a terminal?
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22:50<ADboii>Hello there?!
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22:53<annadane>ADboii, hello there!
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23:05<ADboii>i need help ?
23:06<awal1>ADboii, what?
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23:06<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
23:06<annadane>!ask to ask
23:06<dpkg>Don't ask to ask. Don't ask if anybody can help you with x. Just ask! If you're unsure how to phrase your question, ask me about <ask>.
23:07<sarnold>ADboii: this may help you get good help on irc
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23:10<ADboii>i wanna learning hack im the beginner :))
23:10<ADboii>if u guys know some group chat of hacking ?
23:11<sarnold>ADboii: I suggest buying a copy of Advanced Programming in the Unix Environment -- it'll cover all the ground-level basics
23:14<annadane>ADboii, are you on parrot? parrot is not debian
23:14<ADboii>im in kali linux
23:14<dpkg>For some reasons why Kali/Parrot/Other based-on-Debian penetration testing distributions shouldn't be used as a home desktop, see
23:14<annadane>ADboii, ^^^
23:15<dpkg>Kali Linux ( is a security and penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on or . Also ask me about <based on debian>, and read
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