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#debian IRC Logs for 2019-07-15

---Logopened Mon Jul 15 00:00:08 2019
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01:03<LeLutin>I'm trying to build a buster VM with packer. this is using a combination of bootloader params to debian-installer and a preseed file to automate things. for some reason the params and preseed file was working well with debian stretch, but with buster's installer I'm still getting stuck at "Select your location" question. is there something that changed in the debian-installer that would ...
01:03<LeLutin>... make this behave differently in buster?
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01:09<jm_>LeLutin: release notes do mention some changes
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01:11<jm_>here https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-installing.en.html
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01:27<LeLutin>jm_: ah thanks I'll dig into that
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01:47<LeLutin>hmpf I don't understand what changes happened to the installer that could make automation different wrt the questions about "Select your location"
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01:59<jm_>have you tried looking on tty3/4 if there's any info about it?
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02:16<LeLutin>jm_: yes, I can see that the installer is setting locale to C even though I have "locale=en_US" in the boot parameters. that's about as much as I could see. I've added BOOT_DEBUG=2 to the boot params to see if I would get more information but nothing super useful shows up
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02:19<jm_>LeLutin: maybe ask in #debian-boot
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02:38<Omochao>hey, is there a machine-readable way of getting the current stable release name (currently “buster”) anywhere?
02:38<Omochao>(note that I'm not looking for the locally installed release name)
02:40<somiaj>what do you mean by machine readable. I think lsb_release -c should work
02:40<somiaj>.
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02:41<Omochao>for example I could parse https://www.debian.org/releases/ but relying on the format of that page to remain consistent seems like a bad idea
02:42<grove>somiaj: lsb_release is all about "the locally installed release", that Omochao said he wasn't looking for
02:42<somiaj>oh I see
02:42<somiaj>wonder if you can see where a link points on a remote server via http
02:44<somiaj>http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/dists/stable/Release -- the release file might be better to parse
02:44<somiaj>I doubt the 'codename: name' part is going to change
02:44<Omochao>that looks good, thanks!
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02:51<LeLutin>jm_: ah! I think I ended up figuring out how to make it work. I've replaced "install auto" for just "auto" in the boot params and then pushed locale and keyboard selection inside the preseed file. now the question doesn't show up anymore and the install goes through
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03:21<hahaha>hello
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04:11<atlas>sup
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04:35<wolfmannight>How to install all media codec packages in buster ?
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05:34<rant>wolfmannight: debian / linux doesn't work like that
05:35<rant>codec support is on a per-framework per-app basis.. if a media player uses gstreamer for example it works with whatever codecs gstreamer supports and that framework and app are respectively compiled against
05:36<rant>I personally haven't ran into a file I couldn't play but if you do, chances are you will need to recompile something
05:37<rant>wolfmannight: ffmpeg -codecs is a fairly good idea of what's supported..
05:38<wolfmannight>I mean there are list of packages like Ubuntu does ubuntu-restricted-extras
05:38<wolfmannight>I don't want all, but wanna cover most common ones
05:39<rant>thats already done
05:39<rant>ffmpeg, vlc, mplayer/mpv and such are already compiled with support for more than you'll likely ever need
05:39<wolfmannight>ffmpeg -codecs will that play mp4 with totem ?
05:40<rant>ffmpeg -codecs shows a list of codec support for ffmpeg, shows what it can encode/decode what is for audio,video,subtitles, etc..
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05:41<rant>totem, like most of gnome is a steaming pile of dung
05:41<rant>but if thats what you're using and want to use, then gstreamer is what you're speaking of
05:41<wolfmannight>I want to play in totem, I know vlc has everything pre compiled in it
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05:43<wolfmannight>I used non-free Debian iso's almost all media files play in totem, so I wanna know which are extra packages they choose to play those files
05:43<rant>wolfmannight: in that case a simple apt install gstreamer1.0-plugins-* should suffice
05:43<rant>there is a good, bad, ugly that I know of
05:44<rant>,i gstreamer1.0-plugins-good
05:44<judd>Package gstreamer1.0-plugins-good (libs, optional) in buster/amd64: GStreamer plugins from the "good" set. Version: 1.14.4-1; Size: 2855.1k; Installed: 7558k; Homepage: https://gstreamer.freedesktop.org
05:44<rant>,i gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad
05:44<judd>Package gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad (libs, optional) in buster/amd64: GStreamer plugins from the "bad" set. Version: 1.14.4-1+b1; Size: 3179.7k; Installed: 8400k; Homepage: https://gstreamer.freedesktop.org
05:44<rant>,i gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly
05:44<judd>Package gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly (libs, optional) in buster/amd64: GStreamer plugins from the "ugly" set. Version: 1.14.4-1; Size: 404.0k; Installed: 1044k; Homepage: https://gstreamer.freedesktop.org
05:44<rant>,depends totem
05:44<judd>Package totem in buster/amd64 -- depends: libc6 (>= 2.28), libcairo2 (>= 1.14.0), libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 (>= 2.23.0), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.37.3), libgstreamer-plugins-base1.0-0 (>= 1.0.0), libgstreamer1.0-0 (>= 1.6.0), libgtk-3-0 (>= 3.19.4), libnautilus-extension1a (>= 3.21.92-3~), libpango-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libpangocairo-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libtotem-plparser18 (>= 3.26.0), libtotem0 (>= 3.30.0-4), libtotem0 (<< 3.31),
05:44<judd>libx11-6, grilo-plugins-0.3, totem-common (>= 3.30.0-4), gsettings-desktop-schemas, gstreamer1.0-clutter-3.0, gstreamer1.0-plugins-base (>= 1.6.0), gstreamer1.0-plugins-good (>= 1.10), gstreamer1.0-x.
05:44<rant>ah, and a base..
05:44<wolfmannight>Okey thanks for helping me
05:44<rant>looks like it installes the base and good by defauly
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05:51<wolfmannight>Still H.264 not playing
05:51<wolfmannight>Installed x264 package too
05:52<rant>if its not playing h264, the most common codec out there, you should just stop using that pile of crap
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05:52<EmleyMoor>No news on bug #931901 yet I see. Is there a channel to discuss kernel matters?
05:53<wolfmannight>Lol... I was making custom iso.. with only selected gnome apps.. so I wanna add all media codec support by default
05:53<rant>EmleyMoor: https://wiki.debian.org/IRC/ #debian-kernel
05:53<supaman>EmleyMoor: there is #debian-kernel
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05:54<EmleyMoor>How about more general?
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05:54<rant>wolfmannight: well there is #debian-gnome but its kinda ridiculous to use the absolute shittiest software on the greatest OS
05:55<rant>EmleyMoor: #freenode, ##linux this is a debian community we respond to debian related stuff
05:55<wolfmannight>Yahh... Can I put vlc to default.. for free iso distribution ?
05:55<rant>afaik the kernel devs have always used mailing lists and they prefer it that way
05:55<EmleyMoor>rant: This is Debian related in that it's bitten me on a Debian setup
05:56<rant>EmleyMoor: yes and I gave you and you rejected the debian related answer
05:56<rant>and apparently ignored the answer about lkml
05:56<rant>dpkg, lkml
05:56<dpkg>from memory, lkml is the Linux Kernel Mailing List. Read http://web.archive.org/web/20110721110318/http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/docs/lkml/reporting-bugs.html before you post there and ALSO read http://www.tux.org/lkml/
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05:57<wolfmannight>EmleyMoor: you can compile own kernel from source.. to get latest bug fixes
05:57<EmleyMoor>rant: I didn't reject it - I just consider this is a bit "broader" than Debian...
05:57<rant>wolfmannight: absolutely everything in debian's main is free to do absolutely whatever you want with it.. you can sell it, modify it, distribute it, whatever you want
05:57<EmleyMoor>wolfmannight: Indeed but I am trying to find some way of finding a suitable version
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05:58<rant>,bugs 931901
05:58<rant>,bug 931901
05:58<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/931901 in src:linux (open): «linux-image-4.19.0-5-amd64: incorrectly identifies some old Radeon HD as newer, preventing X from starting»; severity: important; opened: 2019-07-12; last modified: 2019-07-12.
05:59<wolfmannight>Love solid Rock stable Debian, who won't fall in love with Debian.
06:00<wolfmannight>Tried every distros out there for 20 days.. In conclusion Debian is selected for life long.
06:01<rant>wolfmannight: I personally use vlc and mplayer on my system.. I use vlc for most things, use mplayer if I wanna do something a little more low-level like dump frames to images or if I just want a flexible scripted chromeless playback
06:02<rant>vlc has all the bells and whistles for a GUI, mplayer has it all for cli/scripting environments
06:02<rant>totem is just like a horrible android looking UI that just so happens to be able to act like a media player
06:03<wolfmannight>I also uses vlc but I was compiling Debian gnome without games and some rarely used packages
06:04<rant>GNOME has gotten rather crappy since 3.x came out.. its a rather dumbed down kiosk-like interface that is sparsely documented, overly complex, and wreaks of bad code
06:05<rant>most of its desireable points have been implemented in MATE, and Cinnamon or XFCE also offer attractive and beter coded interfaces
06:05<wolfmannight>#debian-live community on IRC dead, only this place remain to solve my problems
06:05<EmleyMoor>If I'm compiling alternative kernels myself, how do I "copy" the existing configuration?
06:06<wolfmannight>Are you good with live-build ?
06:06<rant>they've added many new things to MATE, two new menu styles, a dock or two (OSX/GNOME3 style dock) the ability to put the window buttons/title (maximize/minimize/close) into a panel.. etc
06:06<rant>I have no interest in live media its rather annoying
06:07<wolfmannight>EmleyMoor It's in /etc/boot .config I guess not sure
06:07<rant>I typically just install to a thumbdrive if I need something like a live environment
06:07<jm_>EmleyMoor: cp /boot/config-foo .config && make oldconfig
06:08<wolfmannight>In /boot
06:08<wolfmannight>Yahh
06:08<rant>EmleyMoor: the config will not work if the kernel version is drastically different but its usually available as wolfmannight in /boot/ also in /proc/config.gz or such, and using the oldconfig directive when compiling a new kernel
06:09<wolfmannight>Installed kernel from experimental package I think 5.0 then get config file from it
06:09<rant>,kernels
06:09<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.0.0-trunk-686-pae (5.0.2-1~exp1); sid: 4.19.0-5-686-pae (4.19.37-5); buster: 4.19.0-5-686-pae (4.19.37-5); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (4.19.37-4~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-9-686 (4.9.168-1+deb9u3); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.9.168-1+deb9u3~deb8u1); wheezy-backports:
06:09<judd>3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
06:10<wolfmannight>rant: never tried new MATE
06:10*EmleyMoor brings his bullseye VM up to date to act as a place to work on kernels
06:11<wolfmannight>Looks interesting
06:11<wolfmannight>VM best for testing
06:11*EmleyMoor is wondering how many versions to try going back at a time
06:13<EmleyMoor>4.19.37 definitely has the bug - should I try 4.19.0, then 4.18.0 if necessary, until the bug vanishes, then try the latest revision of the 4.x I reached? Could then jump by halves to find the version where the mistake was made
06:13<rant>wolfmannight: if you try it look in the package manager for additional mate- packagages.. the newer menus and docks and stuff are seperate optional components
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06:14<rant>wolfmannight: both the newer menus support searching where the old two built in do not
06:14<rant>which personally I think searching is a stupid feature but w/e
06:14<rant>if you need to search your applications menu you have to many entries :P
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06:14<EmleyMoor>Of course, if I'm really lucky it may have been fixed in latest 4.19
06:15<rant>I can't imagine most people use more than a dozen apps on any given month..
06:15<wolfmannight>Lol
06:15<wolfmannight>Downloading MATE version
06:17<wolfmannight>I think in gnome 3.33, they re wrote some apps. And frame dropping also fixed. But Debian still using old one
06:17<rant>wolfmannight: I use mate when I use a DE cause the codebase is very mature.. XFCE is nice for example, but when I plug in external monitors or different audio setups I have to go change it all manually every time, MATE on the other hand remembers my configurations and restores them immediately on PnP functionality
06:17<wolfmannight>That's cool
06:17<rant>its highly configurable though simple right clicking and dialogs and such.. its a very robust and mature DE
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06:19<rant>and since its what Gnome3 was originally, it is easy to integrate most anything you want that GNOME has.. it uses the network-manager-gnome for example
06:20<wolfmannight>I switched from macOS.. so I selected gnome.
06:20<rant>uses same UI toolkit, same backends, gvfsd, etc
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06:21<wolfmannight>Okey I will try MATE, but I'm still struggling with building live build. It's ask for login password and username. It supposed to auto login without asking it.
06:22<rant>try nodm perhaps.. simple configration, doesnt even have a login option, its auto-login only
06:22<rant>failing that, try lightdm.. farily simple to configure for autologin
06:22<wolfmannight>Installed live-boot and live-config.. but still no improvement
06:23<wolfmannight>Okey
06:24<wolfmannight>In installer part everything works okey. But live part still pain in as*
06:24<rant>wolfmannight: do you even NEED a live setup? or could you survive with just installing normally to something like a thumbdrive?
06:24<rant>because doing it that way makes things DRASTICALLY simpler
06:25<rant>which is what I normally do if I need a portable bootable system.. I just put the debian installer on one thumbdrive and pop in another and install to the other one like it were a hdd..
06:25<wolfmannight>Yahh.. I but people don't wanna see how system look like ? Before they install ?
06:26<rant>what the system /looks like/ is irrelevant really on Linux.. in Debian we have 7 DEs available each are so configurable you couldn't even recognize one customization to the next very easily by looking at it.. and thats still only the tip.. we have tons of other window managers, panels, etc, you could mix and match to create a custom environment
06:27<rant>I've years ago made MATE look indistinguishable from Windows XP
06:27<rant>so what the default setup looks like its something to really base your decision on
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06:28<wolfmannight>Hmm.. okey
06:28<wolfmannight>rant: which code editor you using ?
06:29<EmleyMoor>What has become of kernel-package?
06:30<wolfmannight>Mean ? After compiling kernel you will have .deb package of it.
06:31<EmleyMoor>No, Mean "there doesn't appear to be any such thing any more"
06:31<wolfmannight>You mean kernel package from apt ?
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06:32<EmleyMoor>I mean "kernel-package", the package
06:33<wolfmannight>https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=kernel-package
06:33<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... so it doesn't actually exist for today's...
06:34<wolfmannight>I compiled it without it
06:34<EmleyMoor>w
06:34<jm_>there are .deb targets in upstream kernel's makefile
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06:35<EmleyMoor>jm_: Good... is there a guide to using them?
06:35<wolfmannight>https://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/compiling-linux-kernel-26.html
06:35<jm_>EmleyMoor: https://wiki.debian.org/BuildADebianKernelPackage
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06:38<rant>wolfmannight: what I'm getting at is from a practical standpoint, for testing/demonstration purpose there is no real difference between a live and a normal install to a removable media like a thumbdrive other than the removal of all the headaches of setup
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06:39<rant>wolfmannight: for coding I can use anything, nano, pluma, mousepad.. if I want something fancier which I usually dont need cause I dont do much coding.. usually just simple small things.. I'll use geany which is a bit more advanced
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06:40<rant>only feature I particularly liked in geany was that it remembers what I have going on and opens back up with all the same files open to all the same places
06:41<rant>all those bells and whistles like completing brackets and crap just annoy me.. it was also somewhat nice when coding in a whitespace langague like python that it can automatically convert tabs/spaces
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06:42<wolfmannight>Hmm.. as some of coders opinion, VSCode is more used one... I was compiling it from open source code base.
06:42<rant>yeah well those sorts of things depend on your needs and habits
06:43<rant>most of what these fancier things do just annoy me.. simpler the better.. basic syntax highlighting and search/replace are sufficient for my needs
06:43<wolfmannight>I agree
06:43<rant>all that other crap is just annoying.. where it tries to guess what I'm typing and auto complete things... I wind up making more syntax errors that way
06:44<wolfmannight>Lol
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06:53<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... none of this is proving any good at all
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06:59<EmleyMoor>Really can't work out today's Debian way of building a kernel
07:01<EmleyMoor>I'm wondering if disabling amdgpu for the 4.19 kernel (a) can be done (b) will help
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07:02<rant>EmleyMoor: is the problem that it's loading a completely different driver?
07:03<EmleyMoor>rant: The problem is it's loading a driver that treats my graphics chip as something much newer than it is. It's loading amdgpu when I think radeon is what it should be loading
07:04<rant>EmleyMoor: lspci -nn | nc termbin.com 9999
07:04<EmleyMoor>rant: With the offending kernel up?
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07:05<rant>doesn't matter
07:05<rant>I'm just looking for the pciids of any and all video adapters
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07:05<GyrosGeier>hm
07:05<GyrosGeier>is that a module?
07:05<rant>GyrosGeier: is what a module?
07:05<GyrosGeier>the amdgpu driver
07:06<EmleyMoor>https://termbin.com/szuf
07:06<rant>GyrosGeier: https://termbin.com/sgce
07:06<GyrosGeier>if so, you can just add it to the blacklist and rebuild the initrd so the early boot process knows about it
07:07<GyrosGeier>in the same way that the non-free nvidia drivers block loading the nouveau drivers
07:07<rant>not necessary
07:08<rant>modinfo amdgpu | grep 9802 returns nothing
07:08<rant>modinfo radeon | grep 9802 returns an alias
07:08<EmleyMoor>rant: Indeed...
07:08<rant>so only the radeon driver will claim it
07:08<GyrosGeier>then building a new kernel should not do anything
07:08<EmleyMoor>Ah... well, it's insisting, therefore, on something inappropriate...
07:09<rant>it can't insist on it
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07:09<rant>it checks the aliases.. if there is no alias claiming the hw it can't do it
07:09<EmleyMoor>"it" is unidentified. There is an "it", and "it" is behaving inappropriately. See the bug - 931901
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07:10<EmleyMoor>(I admit the amdgpu thing was a bit of a "straw clutch")
07:10<rant>that bug report is practically useless I read it hours ago
07:10<EmleyMoor>rant: Useless-but-true... how do I make it more useful?
07:12<rant>for an issue that is claiming a video failure in xorg.. you need full output of the xorg log, you need full output of the kernel message buffer from boot, output of lspci -nn which you just provided
07:12<rant>that kernel log portion of that bug is only the most recent messages, not showing anything of use
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07:13<EmleyMoor>OK, dow do I get the "full output of the kernel message buffer from boot"?
07:13<rant>because all anyone needs to really know to get at an issue of that nature is the pciids of any and all video adapters, what the kernel says, and what xorg says
07:14<rant>EmleyMoor: well.. sometime near the boot a dmesg -T would do it.. but the buffer is limited and will be overwritten hours after boot or if something is spewing errors like crazy
07:14<EmleyMoor>The pciids of any and all video adapters are in there...
07:14<rant>EmleyMoor: we used to in sysv days have /etc/init.d/bootmisc.sh saving that to /var/log/dmesg at boot.. but it no longer creates a static log of the boot
07:15<EmleyMoor>I might be able to get the dmesg -T output...
07:15<rant>EmleyMoor: yeah.. thats a bit tl;dr you just provided lspci -nn which is more sane
07:15<rant>EmleyMoor: need the xorg log as well
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07:16<rant>the dmesg output would go all the way back to the kernel command line if the buffer hasn't been overrun by other messages
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07:17<rant>on a good working machine really that buffer could stay for days.. as a kernel really only writes there when there are errors, or hw changes and such.. if you're not unplugging and plugging in a bunch of stuff.. it shouldnt be writing all kinds of crap typically.. but shit happens and sometimes messages are spewing there like crazy
07:17<EmleyMoor>I can't be held responsible for reportbug <g>
07:17<rant>these days with systemd and journalctl its just mixing that crap in with every other type of log and its nearly impossible to get it all out of there
07:17<rant>yeah.. I'm not a fan of reportbug
07:18<rant>I like the concept, but the implementation is barebones
07:19<rant>I have laid out a ridiculously ambitious plan for our support community that so far I've got no traction on cause I lack the time/skill to pull it off and have no help.. but the kinds of things I put out there I think we're going to absolutely need going forward.. things are growing beyond what we will be able to maintain if it keeps up status quo
07:20<supaman>rant: can you provide a link to those plans?
07:20<rant>supaman: https://git.fosscommunity.in/kathryntolsen/diss
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07:20<EmleyMoor>http://paste.debian.net/1091661/
07:21<EmleyMoor>Look particularly around 4.5 seconds for the key bit
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07:23<rant>EmleyMoor: yes, thats fairly standard..
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07:23<EmleyMoor>I appear to have an old-but-valid Xorg log...
07:24<EmleyMoor>http://paste.debian.net/1091662/
07:24<EmleyMoor>rant: Yes, but the problem is it's not "R600 or later"
07:25<rant>yes, it is.. the R600 is the HD 2000 series released in 2007, yours is a HD 6000 series released in 2010
07:26<rant>EmleyMoor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_HD_2000_series
07:26<EmleyMoor>rant: Hmmm... you're the first one that's made that claim... so, where do I go from here?
07:26<rant>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_HD_6000_Series
07:27<rant>EmleyMoor: we're only seeing one side of the issue here.. still need to see what xorg is saying.. video in xorg is two parts (simplifying it) a kernel and an xorg driver
07:27<rant>really its like 6 or more parts.. but w/e
07:28<EmleyMoor>I refer you to the posting I made a few minutes ago. If I need to get you something else, please steer me in the right direction
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07:28<rant>ah, I missed that in the ether
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07:32<SDK24>Hell
07:32<EmleyMoor>... in Norway?
07:33<SDK24>Nope
07:33<SDK24>I thought this wasn't working for a sec
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07:36<EmleyMoor>It does seem bizarre some new "requirement" would be introduced to the kernel like this
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07:40<rant>EmleyMoor: so you know for sure this works in some other kernel?
07:41<rant>EmleyMoor: because that card is called "Wrestler" and when I look at modinfo radeon, I see firmwares listed for all sorts of cards and codenames.. wrestler or 6310 are not among them
07:41<EmleyMoor>Yes... 4.9 series
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07:42<rant>EmleyMoor: so either a) the card requires firmware not available or b) the driver assumes it requires firmware and it doesnt
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07:42<EmleyMoor>(and I think we can discount a)
07:42<rant>EmleyMoor: well if you could boot such a kernel, you could do modinfo radeon and show the dmesg output from that
07:43<rant>that would help figure this out..
07:43<rant>if for some reason the devs changed the radeon driver to genericaly assume ALL newer radeons after 2007 require firmware to do KMS, and thats not true.. well.. thats a rather annoying little oversight :P
07:44<EmleyMoor>http://paste.debian.net/1091662/
07:44<rant>because my searching the web turned up nothing about firmware for the card by its code name, model, pciid, nothing
07:45<rant>EmleyMoor: thats pasting a link you already pasted
07:45<rant>but no worries I got it anyhow :P
07:45<EmleyMoor>1091667
07:45<EmleyMoor>Odd that happened
07:47<rant>yeah, well paste.debian.net shows recent pastes
07:47<rant>and that paste doesnt seem to show anything that looks apparently related to your card in terms of firmware
07:48<rant>still wouldnt hurt to see the dmesg from that kernel and perhaps even the xorg log
07:49<EmleyMoor>http://paste.debian.net/1091668/
07:50<rant>I don't have anywhere to be for about 5 more hours so I could probably forward a more clarifying finding to the BTS and possibly shoot at some ideas about looking at changelogs or bisecting or w/e to figure out the who/what/where/when/why of the change
07:50<rant>since we identified more clearly what the issue is and have better info
07:50<EmleyMoor>xorg log is not in obvious place...
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07:52<EmleyMoor>Can't find it at all
07:52<rant>the issue is really that the new buster kernel thinks the card requires firmware for kms when it doesn't.. as there is no firmware for the card.. or its on the card itself already.. but according to wikipedia the r600 was the codename for the HD 2000 where later they used words for codenames.. yours is codenamed Wrestler
07:52<rant>EmleyMoor: strange, but not a real big deal
07:53<rant>it seems the problem is on the kernel side of thigns anyhow
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07:54<rant>yes, that dmesg output shows it enabling radeon kms without any issues
07:54<cpaelzer>bzed: at least for autopkgtest and lintian I have some idea what might be going on
07:55<cpaelzer>bzed: I'll keep your gpsd mail in my inbox for when I have a bit of time to improve that
07:55<cpaelzer>bzed: for the other tests I have no idea what they are doing/failing
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07:57<rant>EmleyMoor: ultimately it boils down to this: http://paste.debian.net/1091670/
07:58<rant>EmleyMoor: so that radeon_pci_probe is jumping to an incorrect conclusion it would seem and erring out rather than proceeding to load the kms for the card
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08:08<rant>EmleyMoor: I've submitted an update to the BTS, should appear in a few minutes.. if you wanna piss with it some more we can try diggin around in the changelogs and crap and see if we can't figure out specifically what changed, get a line number, a name of who did it.. etc..
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08:25<supaman>if you guys go to https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/linux and try to see the bugs for the package (either all or I&N), do you get an internal server error also?
08:28<rant>supaman: took a while to load, but loaded fine
08:29<supaman>rant: interesting, I just get "Internal Server Error"
08:29<rant>EmleyMoor: https://salsa.debian.org/kernel-team/linux/blob/master/debian/patches/debian/firmware_class-refer-to-debian-wiki-firmware-page.patch this is where they added the link to the wiki.. pinpoints the part of the code in question I'd guess.. but this wasnt what caused the issue, just added a line to show the link so it was before this.. probably upstream that did it, not the Debian Maitainers
08:31<supaman>oh, nvm .. after reloading the tracker page and selecting the bugs then I don't get the error
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08:31<rant>https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux.git/tree/drivers/gpu/drm/radeon/radeon_drv.c?h=v4.19.59
08:31<rant>is the upstream file in question
08:32<rant>I'm no git guru to know really how to figure out when a particular change occured.. I know vaguely about bisecting
08:33<rant>no, its def a debian thing, the upstream source has no such check in the radeon_pci_probe
08:34<rant>https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux.git/tree/drivers/gpu/drm/radeon/radeon_drv.c?h=v4.19.59#n340
08:34<GyrosGeier>rant, "git blame -- drivers/gpu/drm/radeon/radeon_drv.c"
08:34<rant>doesn't do any checking to see if the card is R600 or newer
08:34<GyrosGeier>that should show you for each line which commit changed it last
08:34<rant>GyrosGeier: yeah I'd have to have the git repo first.. and idk how to do all that offhand
08:35<GyrosGeier>ah
08:35<rant>it appears this is debian specific as I said, I can plainly see the upstream thing doesnt have the lines showed in that debain patch I linked
08:35<rant>though that particular patch only shows adding one line, its not showing the adding of the entire section where it checks for that R600 or newer
08:38<rant>https://salsa.debian.org/kernel-team/linux/commit/e7bdd24f189b1b8775665d56a1230f7b12915ffe this seems to be the commit that caused the issue to me
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08:38<rant>Mar 15, 2018 by Ben Hutchings
08:39<rant>I'm not real savvy with C or the kernel, but that looks like that code right there is what caused #931901
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08:40<angel>Hola?
08:41<rant>emails a ping to ben hutchings :P
08:41<rant>angel: Hola.
08:42<rant>angel: Hablas ingles?
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08:44<GyrosGeier>rant, ah, that makes sense
08:44<GyrosGeier>get the non-free firmware package then
08:45<angel>Hablo español
08:45<angel>Soy de colombia
08:45<grove>!es
08:45<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
08:45<angel>y tu?
08:50<rant>angel: hablo espanol, pero nosotros hablamos solamenta Igles aqui para soporte, usar #debian-es
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08:51<rant>EmleyMoor: well, I'm done with that.. heh.. I submitted to the BTS again and added CC and BCC to Ben and the original poster of the bug with my findings
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08:57<EmleyMoor>rant: will see what you've done when I get in
08:58<GyrosGeier>rant, the issue seems to be that you need to upload the firmware blob to the hardware before you can do modesetting
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08:59<rant>GyrosGeier: not if it works fine in Stretch's 4.9 and since then someone made a patch assuming all radeon cards newer than the 2007 R600 need firmware
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09:00<GyrosGeier>ah
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09:01<GyrosGeier>I had an R200, and I dimly remember that I did need the firmware blob for anything that wasn't a VESA mode
09:01<rant>based on the information provided to me and what I could gather, Ben Hutchings made a patch a littel over a year ago to debian's kernel to make it show nice lil errors pointing to the debian wiki when there are firmware issues, and in doing so, he made broad assumptions
09:02<rant>and near as I can tell, that patch is why EmleyMoor is not able to startx with a buster kernel using that HD 6310
09:02<rant>,bug 931901
09:02<judd>Bug https://bugs.debian.org/931901 in src:linux (open): «linux-image-4.19.0-5-amd64: incorrectly identifies some old Radeon HD as newer, preventing X from starting»; severity: important; opened: 2019-07-12; last modified: 2019-07-12.
09:02<rant>its all in the bug report now..
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09:02<GyrosGeier>mmh
09:03<GyrosGeier>Ben usually responds quickly, so that should be good
09:03<rant>idk, never delt with him that I recall.. delt with Big Nose (Ben Finney) but not him
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09:39<fernando>exit
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09:47<quazgar_>Hi, will Firefox-esr 68 be released for Buster?
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09:51<vadear>I installed buster on my Acer Aspire E5-576G laptop which has a backlit keyboard but pressing Fn F9 does not enable activate it. How can i solve the problem? Do i have to edit any configuration files on buster?
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09:56<inkbottle>I've got a modem/wifi access point; and a wifi repeater; I'd like to visualize the network (at least the IP address and bssid), because I want to configure a second repeater, which happens not to work out of the box as the first one
09:56<inkbottle>What tools should I use for that?
09:57<rant>vadear: on my Thinkpad T440, its Fn+Space and that works as does passing 0,1,2 for off,dim,bright to /sys/class/leds/tpacpi::kbd_backlight/brightness
09:57<rant>vadear: tpacpi is a kernel module for the thinkpad's acpi features
09:58<vadear>rant, i do not have a Thinkpad
09:58<themill>On some machines, that's a BIOS setting
09:58<rant>however such functions should typically work via the keyboard function keys directly through the bios's acpi without any need for the OS or kernel
09:58<rant>it does not however suprise me that acer would have an issue.. they're pretty much junk
09:59<rant>I had one of their Apire netbooks before, it was riddled with issues
10:00<rant>vadear: you would still likely have a /sys/class/leds/ regaurdless and be able to search for acpi drivers for your machine see if they exist
10:00<rant>I was just telling you all I know for sure
10:01<vadear>Pressing Fn and F8 enables/disables sound
10:01<vadear>that works as expected
10:01<vadear>and so do Fn F5, Fn F6, Fn F7
10:02<themill>that is probably generating an XF86AudioMute key code
10:02<rant>quazgar_: eventually
10:03<rant>quazgar_: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/firefox https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/firefox-esr are currently held up in migrating out of sid due to introduction of various bugs and waiting on https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/nss
10:04<rant>quazgar_: it would need to have a reason to make it all the way to what is now a stable distro though regardless.. https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/firefox https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/firefox-esr
10:04<rant>there aren't any issues with the version we currently have that would warrant that
10:05<themill>There likely will be in October or November.
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10:06<rant>https://qa.debian.org/excuses.php?package=firefox-esr is another resource for such things, but that info is also on the tracker
10:06<rant>the big issue getting it out of sid is the nss thing
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10:12<vadear>There is no mention of Fn keys on my laptop' s bios
10:13<GyrosGeier>the Fn key usually doesn't exist from a software point of view
10:13<vadear>rant, i have a /sys/class/leds/ directory
10:13<grove>I don't remember the specifics, but as firefox won't support any version for as long as a release cycle, I believe some policy was made for putting some ESR versions into stable, hopefully not a version that will pull in a new nss (and what follows), so I guess the reasons currently holding it out of sid doesn't really matter for it's possible future in Buster
10:15<rant>vadear: got anything in there for your keyboard light?
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10:17<themill>Does xev see keystrokes from that key combo?
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10:23<vadear>i have a /sys/class/leds/phy0-led directory
10:24<vadear>what is the name of the file that i need to find and edit to enable my backlit keyboard?
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10:25<mimo>hi everybody
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10:39<vadear>what is the name of the file that i need to find and edit to enable my backlit keyboard? https://pastebin.com/55cvAPTL
10:43<GyrosGeier>the three input0 ones correspond to the LEDs on your keyboard
10:43<GyrosGeier>so I'd suspect it's the fourth
10:46<GyrosGeier>that link should go to a directory
10:46<GyrosGeier>that has "brightness" and "max_brightness" files inside
10:46<GyrosGeier>writing to "brightness" should set the LED brightness
10:47<vadear>https://pastebin.com/y4XVha0y
10:47<GyrosGeier>"should" means that it didn't work when I just tested it on my capslock LED
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10:47<GyrosGeier>"cat max_brightness" gives you a number
10:47<GyrosGeier>"cat brightness" another
10:47<GyrosGeier>"echo 0 >brightness" turns off
10:48<GyrosGeier>a nonzero number up to the value in max_brightness turns on
10:48<GyrosGeier>at least in theory
10:48<GyrosGeier>whether it works in practice remains to be seen
10:49<vadear>are you sure those brightness settings are not for the screen but for the (backlit) keyboard?
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10:50<GyrosGeier>they could be
10:50<GyrosGeier>but usually backlights live in /sys/class/backlight, not /sys/class/leds
10:51<vadear>i see no mention of my keboard
10:51<GyrosGeier>but we're in "these things are usually designed by committee" territory
10:51<GyrosGeier>hm
10:51<GyrosGeier>good point,
10:51<GyrosGeier>phy0-led could be the LED on your Ethernet card
10:52<GyrosGeier>your keyboard could be a HID device, with the LEDs improperly marked in the HID descriptor
10:53<vadear>could you please point me to right directory?
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10:53<GyrosGeier>16:51 < GyrosGeier> but we're in "these things are usually designed by committee" territory
10:53<GyrosGeier>there are so many competing standards here that it's impossible to tell which one is the right one
10:54<noln>macs have kbd light under /leds fwiw
10:54<GyrosGeier>Mac hardware designers know how to write HID descriptors
10:54<GyrosGeier>basically, keyboards and mice are HID
10:54<vadear>I do not have a mac
10:55<GyrosGeier>keyboards say "I have 140 binary inputs, here is their mapping, and 3 binary output, here is their mapping"
10:55<GyrosGeier>the binary outputs then correspond to LEDs
10:55<GyrosGeier>if you have a backlight, there are more outputs
10:56<GyrosGeier>and the HID descriptor says "the first one is numlock, the second is capslock, the third is scrolllock, the fourth is backlight"
10:56<vadear> Acer Aspire E15 E5-576G is the laptop i have
10:56<GyrosGeier>or something such
10:56<GyrosGeier>the generic HID driver then maps that to /sys/class/leds
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10:56<GyrosGeier>if the HID descriptor is broken, then that doesn't work
10:57<themill>or if none of this is visible to the OS at all
10:59<GyrosGeier>that is uncommon though
10:59<GyrosGeier>going through HID is way cheaper than getting a driver signed :)
10:59<themill>it is the case for the device sitting on my lap
10:59<vadear>it is indeed complicated to solve this issue
10:59<GyrosGeier>the only other thing I could think of would be that they use an ACPI GPIO
11:00<vadear>but how shall i proceed?
11:00<GyrosGeier>which is what they
11:00<GyrosGeier>which is what they'd do if the keyboard isn't USB internally
11:00<GyrosGeier>if I had the time, I'd read the ACPI tables
11:00<rant>there are as I recall certain acpi commandline options for the kernel that may be useful if the function is not exposed to the OS or not supported by an os driver
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11:01<rant>as the kernel may be catching the keystroke but not knowing what to do with it
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11:01<rant>acpi_backlight and acpi_osi for example
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11:02<rant>https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.txt
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11:03<vadear>rant, in my /etc/default/grub file i have the line as follows: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="acpi_osi=Linux acpi_backlight=vendor"
11:04<rant>yes, those are two common workarounds for such issues
11:04<rant>but they still as I understand require some kernel driver to actually support the hw in question
11:05<rant>many vendors have specific support modules for acpi functions
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11:06<rant>acer however is throwaway hardware.. I dont imagine many people who can get stuff done for them would have them available to figure it out
11:07<rant>you can get actual computers for around the same price point.. a 5 year old Thinkpad beats and is usually cheaper than a new Acer
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11:08<rant>part of their cheap manufacturing process is typicaly having a ton of hardware bugs
11:08<vadear>rant, the Acer Aspire E15 E5-576G laptop was a present. i can not afford to spend any money on computing items at the moment
11:09<GyrosGeier>mmh
11:09<rant>neither can I, I'd have to save up to be broke.. if you robbed me all you'd get is practice.. but I traded for a T440 thinkpad :P
11:09<GyrosGeier>on PC a lot of hardware things are "solved" in ACPI
11:10<GyrosGeier>on a lot of tablets, the camera flash is just connected to a spare channel of the CPU voltage regulator
11:10<GyrosGeier>and the ACPI tables tell the driver which it is
11:10<rant>we told you how this stuff works on apples, thinkpads, etc.. machines that are done right.. you told us you dont have those.. well we dont have acer aspires.. so we can't figure this out either
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11:10<GyrosGeier>well, we can
11:10<GyrosGeier>but it's going to take several hours
11:11<GyrosGeier>my expectation is that there is an ACPI control method that controls the backlight
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11:12<rant>thats best case scenario if the user on the other end is capable of keeping up and following along with some low-level reverse-enginerring type crap with a proprietary acpi implementation riddled with bugs
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11:13<vadear>rant, in my /etc/default/grub file i have the line as follows: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="acpi_osi=Linux acpi_backlight=vendor". i added that line yesterday and then i executed as root update-grub2. Should i have executed any other command?
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11:13<rant>vadear: nothing other than rebooting.. but those commands arent some magic stuff that will fix this
11:14<rant>acpi_backlight may only be for the screen backlight for one thing, and vendor means to use a vendor specific driver which probably doesn't exist in this case
11:14<rant>the linux kernel tends to auto detect the best settings for anything thats supported and is done right
11:15<rant>it can't however guess at specific quirks of a company cranking out cheap garbage with different implementation issues in each model
11:17<vadear>i have to point out that the Fn F9 combination did enable/disable the backlit keyboard when i had stretch on the laptop and as far as i can remember i did not add acpi_osi=Linux acpi_backlight=vendor to my /etc/default/grub file
11:19<rant>vadear: so manually download and install the stretch kernel, boot it, and see.. if it works providing info from both kernels would help someone run it down
11:20<rant>I'm tired and have other places to be soon and I already ran down and reported one obscure kernel issue today. :P
11:22<vadear>rant, i booted up Debian 9.9 MATE live yesterday and the issue was present
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11:36<vadear>rant, thanks. will be back later
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11:36<vadear>thanks guys, i gotta go. will be back later
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12:00<gnzlbg>I have a problem, and i'm not sure where should I ask about it
12:00<gnzlbg>I want the OS to reject a binary from being run
12:01<gnzlbg>if the binary is compiled with features that are not available in the HWCAP/HWCAP2 auxiliary vectors
12:01<somiaj>write a wrapper script that only runs the binary if the features are available?
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12:01<somiaj>what is running this binary, some other program?
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12:02<gnzlbg>a shell
12:02<gnzlbg>or whatever
12:03<gnzlbg>another binary might spawn it as a process
12:03<gnzlbg>doesn't really matter
12:03<somiaj>the or whatever matters, but if it is just a shell, you can put a wrapper script in /usr/local/bin
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12:03<somiaj>and most things will have that in the $PATH and run the wrapper script that tests for the features and only runs the actual binary if the tests suceeded
12:03<gnzlbg>so just as an example
12:03<gnzlbg>if my binary is run in a system where the features required are not available
12:04<gnzlbg>it will delete all your files
12:04<somiaj>but if something calls the full path of the binary, this might not work. You could replace the binary with a wrapper script and rename the actual binary, but this will get overwritten when the packge is upgraded.
12:04<gnzlbg>so if this script has an error
12:04<gnzlbg>or any program spawning my binary has an error
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12:04<gnzlbg>the consequences are catastrophic
12:04<gnzlbg>so I don't think a wrapper shell script cuts it
12:04<somiaj>sounds like an xy problem. If the binary itself needs special features, the binary itself should be checking for them and acting sanely
12:05<gnzlbg>it cannot
12:05<gnzlbg>the binary is compiled with these features enabled
12:05<somiaj>or needs to be run as a user hwo dosen't have permissions to do bad things
12:05<gnzlbg>the code that does the check, is also compiled with these features enabled
12:05<gnzlbg>so if they are not enabled, all the code in the binary has undefined behavior
12:05<somiaj>still sounds like an xy problem, and you haven't even mentioned what binary this is, but it doesn't sound like one debian would ship but some third party binary.
12:06<gnzlbg>i didn't suggest that debian should fixed
12:06<gnzlbg>i asked for help finding a forum where to ask about this problem
12:06<gnzlbg>might need kernel support
12:06<gnzlbg>that checks whether all features that the binary requires are available, and if they aren't, rejects running the binary
12:06<gnzlbg>or something like that
12:07<gnzlbg>so maybe i should ask in the kernel mailing list ?
12:07<somiaj>still sounds like an xy problem. You need to fix the binary, not find some way to work around its poor design
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12:09<gnzlbg>somiaj: the binary requires feature y to run
12:09<GyrosGeier>is that an executable or a shared library/
12:09<gnzlbg>it can be both
12:10<gnzlbg>ideally the linker would also reject it if its a shared library
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12:10<GyrosGeier>because for shared libraries, you can have hwcap subdirs in .../lib
12:10<GyrosGeier>so you'd install two versions, and the runtime linker selects the right one automatically
12:10<gnzlbg>that still doesn't prevent somebody from using the wrong version AFAICT
12:10<gnzlbg>e.g. via LD_PRELOAD or similar
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12:11<gnzlbg>also often I just want to ship one version
12:11<GyrosGeier>nothing prevents them from LD_PRELOADing a library that writes to address 0 in its init code
12:11<GyrosGeier>if it's broken, it's broken
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12:11<gnzlbg>e.g. most of my users have AVX2, but I want that those users that try to run it without AVX2 get a proper error
12:11<gnzlbg>my binary / library is documented as not do that
12:12<gnzlbg>but ideally this shouldn't rely on the user reading the documentation
12:12<gnzlbg>I compile the whole thing with AVX2 enabled, so I cannot really do a check for AVX2
12:12<somiaj>again still sounds like the binary itself should be checking for these features, and error out if they are not there.
12:12<gnzlbg>how can it ?
12:12<somiaj>via a wrapper or some sort of thing that can run without the features, check for them, and decide to error out or continue on
12:12<gnzlbg>if the feature is not enabled, _ALL_ code in the binary has UB
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12:13<gnzlbg>somiaj: how does that work for a shared library ?
12:13<somiaj>but this is outside of debian support, I'd ask in a coding channel about this paticular feature that is being troublesome (I don't know it well enough to have much impout on that)
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12:13<GyrosGeier>gnzlbg, check ld.so(8), under "Hardware Capabilities"
12:14<GyrosGeier>the list is outdated in the manual, I think, I'd expect avx2 to be supported as a hwcap as well
12:15<gnzlbg>yeah, that recommends using directories when installing shared libraries
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12:15<gnzlbg>it doesn't help if the library is not installed
12:15<gnzlbg>and well if you can compile with N features, you need N! library binaries, so it doesn't help much either
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12:16<gnzlbg>as in, its a nice thing if you want to ship, an sse2 library, and an avx2 library, but if you want to ship `-march=native` libraries, then you'd need thousand of libraries
12:17<gnzlbg>also, it doesn't check which features the library needs
12:17<gnzlbg>it just checks whether the installed path mentions the features
12:17<gnzlbg>so if you install the library in the wrong path, boom
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12:18<gnzlbg>which can happen, e.g., if the previous version of the library was compiled with sse2, and the author bumped it to sse4.2 silently
12:18<GyrosGeier>that's why we have a distribution
12:18<GyrosGeier>distro maintainers look at these things
12:18<GyrosGeier>gcc will not use sse4.2 unless told
12:19<gnzlbg>i ship my binaries myself, and people download them and run them
12:19<GyrosGeier>and it will also tell the assembler what instructions are allowed, so asm blocks are also safe
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12:19<gnzlbg>so I'd rather not make it up to them not screwing up
12:19<gnzlbg>I'd rather not leave run for the maintainers of packages screwing up either
12:20<somiaj>then shouldn't you be using something like snap/flatpack/appimage to bundle all the libaries needed so you don't relay on 'random distro's binaries to be nice'
12:20<gnzlbg>i don't rely on them being nice
12:20<gnzlbg>users rely on having hardware modern enough to run the binaries
12:20<gnzlbg>expecting everybody to know all hardware feature bits of modern CPUs is unrealistic
12:21<gnzlbg>so it should be possible for a binary to announce "I require this CPU features" and for the OS to give a nice error if they don't hold
12:22<somiaj>I don't see how this is the kernels problem, if this feature is as desctruptive as it is, the feature itself should do the check.
12:22<gnzlbg>it can't
12:22<gnzlbg>if you compile your binary for cpu X, all the code in the binary assumes the binary will only run on cpu X or better
12:22<gnzlbg>including any code to check for cpu X
12:23<gnzlbg>the compiler knows which features a binary needs to run, and could trivially insert masks for HWCAP/HWCAP2 somewhere
12:23<gnzlbg>that would be trivial for the OS to check
12:24<GyrosGeier>you could compile the check code with generic flags and link that to the rest of the lib
12:24<gnzlbg>generic flags aren't enough, e.g., gcc generic flags will use sse2
12:24<somiaj>this does sound like some kernel issue, maybe those who know the kernel (such as ##kernel on freenode) could give some pointers on if the linux kernel is capibable of this check or not.
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12:24<gnzlbg>so you need zero flags
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12:24<GyrosGeier>gnzlbg, all amd64 have sse2
12:25<gnzlbg>yeah, but not all 32-bit ones do
12:25<GyrosGeier>true, but 32/64 are separate libs
12:25<GyrosGeier>fat binaries exist only on MacOS
12:25<gnzlbg>true, but IIRC still gcc enables sse2 for i686
12:25<GyrosGeier>possibly
12:25<gnzlbg>and somebody can attempt to run those on i586 or i486
12:26<GyrosGeier>so compile the source file containing the check code with -m386
12:26<gnzlbg>then it can't really check
12:26<gnzlbg>because cpuid is only available on i486
12:26<GyrosGeier>of course it can
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12:26<GyrosGeier>just read /proc/cpuinfo
12:26<gnzlbg>that's too costly for binary initialization by default
12:26<GyrosGeier>nah
12:27<GyrosGeier>that's cheaper than loading the library
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12:27<gnzlbg>that needs to be parsed
12:27<GyrosGeier>no big deal
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12:27<gnzlbg>proc cpuinfo shows a wall of text
12:27<gnzlbg>that needs to be stored in memory, parsed, etc.
12:27<gnzlbg>if you are using Java, that's ok
12:27<gnzlbg>but gcc can't do that by default for all C binaries
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12:28<gnzlbg>that won't fly
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12:28<GyrosGeier>no, just scan for "flags:", then scan for the features you need
12:28<gnzlbg>putting a 32-bit mask somewhere, and letting the OS check is ok
12:28<GyrosGeier>you can assume all cores are the same
12:28<GyrosGeier>so you can stop after the first one
12:28<somiaj>I'm less and less seing how this is a debian question, are you compling a whole os (all binaries) with this desctrutive flag?
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12:29<somiaj>I was thinking it was just some set of third party binaries, and a check seems reasonable for that.
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12:45<goodmarket>Hey guys, each time I power on my computer I see resuming from hibernation, is that normal?
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12:48<jmcnaught>goodmarket: it's just a bug that it displays that, it's harmless. Does the same thing on my system.
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12:59<wolfmannight>Anyone here from Debian live team ?
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13:20<jhutchins_wk>wolfmannight: Pretty much everybody in this channel is a user rather than a team member.
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13:22<wolfmannight>Anyone have good experience with live-build ?
13:25<at0m>!ask
13:25<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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13:28<somiaj>wolfmannight: there is a #debian-live or similar channel, but you will have to be paitent for a reply
13:30<wolfmannight>No one there from using live-build. I waited there for 2 days
13:31<somiaj>you could ask here, and sometimes specific stuff is better over a mailing list or forum which has a longer time to see/replay than irc
13:31<wolfmannight>Hmmm okey I will try to ask in forum
13:33<somiaj>I think the mailing lists are a bit more active than the forums in debian
13:34<somiaj>https://lists.debian.org/debian-live/ -- though that seems more developer than user support related
13:34<EmleyMoor>Bug 726110 still open in my name after more that 5 years
13:34<EmleyMoor>(package still on buster!)
13:35<GyrosGeier>https://bugs.debian.org/33991
13:35<GyrosGeier>that one is also still open
13:36<EmleyMoor>GyrosGeier: But not in my name...
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13:38<somiaj>EmleyMoor: its probably that it works for most people who still use it, so they just leave it alone. For a different tool, what is it about flexbackup that you like? Could you do the same thing with your own rsync script?
13:39<somiaj>but yes, seems to be mostly dead, the matainer hasn't touched it since 2008, you may just have to either use something else or see if you can fix it, submit a patch, maybe someone will do another NMU on it.
13:39<EmleyMoor>somiaj: Not rsync. I actually use a self-modified version of a shell script known as simplebackup. It's the lack of need for oodles of admit that helps
13:39<EmleyMoor>admin *
13:39<EmleyMoor>Other systems seem mightily complicated to set up
13:41<GyrosGeier>EmleyMoor, that one is from me, and it just turned 20
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13:42<EmleyMoor>GyrosGeier: Right...
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13:56<bkovacs7>q
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13:58<dboles>!next
13:58<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
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15:01<LeLutin>hmm in a new VM installed with the debian 10.0.0 netinst iso, I'm getting this confirmation request when running apt update : https://paste.debian.net/1091699/ -- is it possible that some package that would prep sources is not fully up to date in the installer?
15:03<noln>LeLutin, apt-get update --allow-releaseinfo-change
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15:04<LeLutin>noln: right, and actually the question that apt asks is interesting! but I'm just puzzled why that would be happening on a new install of a stable release
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15:06<jhutchins_wk>It's pretty clear, a formerly blank version is now 10.0. I think you can just hit y and it will update for you.
15:07<jhutchins_wk>(Also testing changed to stable.)
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15:08<LeLutin>jhutchins_wk: yes indeed. but the formerly blan version in this case is a vanilla install of debian netinst 10.0.0. I'll have to run more tests installing the netinst to figure out if it's consistently reproducible or not
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15:09<noln>I guess it's just the old repository indexes stuck in /var/lib/apt/lists. I wouldn't give it too much weight, considered that the worst bugs have not been ironed out until the first 2-3 point releases.
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15:11<noln>But it would be helpful if --allow-releaseinfo-change were mentioned in apt's error message, or even in this chan's topic, given the question pops up here and on freenode (@themill ?)
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15:11<jmcnaught>!apt suite changed
15:11<dpkg>If you were already using Debian 10 "Buster" prior to it being released as stable, or you use 'testing' in your sources.list, apt-get will complain about changes to the release information on the mirror. apt(8) will prompt you to accept changes; apt-get(8) will need --allow-releaseinfo-change
15:11<meetgyn>Boa tarde a todos
15:11<jmcnaught>Normally it only happens for users that installed buster before it was stable.
15:12<noln>oh yes, I feel so stupid now, sorry.
15:12<meetgyn> need to create an Iso of my Debian 9 that is installed. Then install on other machines. Can someone help me?
15:12<LeLutin>the question that apt asks is actually pretty clear and if you say yes, it clears things out
15:13<LeLutin>I'm just wondering if I need to file a bug report on debian-installer about this or not
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15:16<meetgyn_>How to generate an ISO from my Debian 9 Installed?
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15:18-!-illwieckz is "Thomas Debesse" on #oolite-dev #oolite #debianfr #debian
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15:26<jmcnaught>LeLutin: was not able to reproduce here on a fresh install using debian-10.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso
15:27<somiaj>meetgyn_: what do you want this .iso you generate to do?
15:28<LeLutin>jmcnaught: huh .. I'll definitely have to run more tests then. thanks for checking it out!
15:28<Mikaela>meetgyn_, maybe you are looking for something like https://clonezilla.org/ ?
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15:57<jhutchins_wk>noln: I think you can just respond to the error message.
15:58<jhutchins_wk>!clone
15:58<dpkg>clone is, like, to clone a partition or full disk, read https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/disk_cloning or see <debian clone> to make a copy of an existing system's packages
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16:14<LeLutin>jmcnaught: I think there might be something weird going on with a vagrant plugin that I'm using for caching packages... I'll just blame it on that for now :)
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16:16-!-cheers is "weechat" on #C #debian #debian-next #linux #oftc #qemu-gsoc #qemu #redditprivacy #suckless #tor-dev #tor-project #virt #help
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16:16<peachBug>Hi guys, I'm trying to upgrade KDE to 15.16 on Debian Buster. I have already added buster-backports to source.list and tried to upgrade but nothing happens.
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16:18<peachBug># apt -t buster-backports upgrade \ Reading package lists... Done \ E: The value 'buster-backports' is invalid for APT::Default-Release as such a release is not available in the sources
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16:20<coruja>no sources.list entry for buster itself? backports aren't needed yet these days
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16:20<Armandol>how cant i used mtp
16:20<coruja>(these days = shortly after stable release)
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16:21<jhutchins_wk>peachBug: I don't believe anyone's had time to do backports, or even set up the repo.
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16:21<jhutchins_wk>peachBug: What package are you looking for?
16:22<jmcnaught>LeLutin: weird. I use apt-cacher-ng for that but that requires configuring apt to use a proxy on the guests.
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16:26<LeLutin>jmcnaught: it's something that sets up an nfs mount on /var/apt/...something to catch .deb files and keep them around for a while -- it helps to avoid re-downloading the same package over and over when running installation tests
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16:28<at0m><3 acng - no nfs share needed, it makes its own caching server. can be set up as proxy or as repo, and doesn't do just debian
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16:32<jmcnaught>LeLutin: that's cool, is that vagrant-cachier? Does vagrant work well with libvirt or are you using it with virtualbox?
16:34<LeLutin>jmcnaught: exactly, it's vagrant-cachier! I've been using vagrant-libvirt for a while now and the debian package makes it really easy to use :) we've encouraged the whole team to use it since creating a new VM with this is almost instantaneous thanks to the use of snapshots based on the basebox images
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17:50<guy>Is there a keyboard shortcut for the terminal?
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17:51<coruja>depends on your (desktop) environment
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18:14<EmleyMoor>How do you make a link to an autofs sshfs filesystem?
18:19<EmleyMoor>Ah, sorted
18:20<EmleyMoor>If I don't log in to my laptop directly on it, it suspends after a short while, whether on battery or plugged in. How do I stop it doing so when plugged in?
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18:22<sarnold>EmleyMoor: look in logind.conf(5) for IdleAction
18:24<EmleyMoor>sarnold: No use. It defaults to "ignore"
18:24<sarnold>hmm
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18:25<EmleyMoor>gdm runs on my laptop - this may influence it
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18:30<sqrt{not}>what do you have in /etc/systemd/sleep.conf ?
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18:34<EmleyMoor>sqrt{not}: All commented out
18:35<sqrt{not}>and therefore show you what are the defaults
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19:06<wolfmannight>I just created custom build can't log in
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19:06<wolfmannight>(none) login:
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19:06<wolfmannight>About message shows when I type login command
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19:08<tor_>login
19:09<wolfmannight>Is hostname affect login ?
19:09<wolfmannight>Cause I can't able to login
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19:14<kingsley_>Can any of Debian's fine system administration tools reveal which package or packages, if any, have new versions that are stuck in the experimental distribution, and, preventing newer versions of certain other packages, like gimp and kdenlive, from migrating from experimental to unstable?
19:15<somiaj>not sure what that would do, packages don't get stuck in experimental, also this is #debian-next
19:16<somiaj>when the matainer has a package that they deem ready for sid, they will upload it to sid. This may be based off the one in experminetal, but I don't see experimental holding anything back
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19:17<somiaj>but in general packages do not migrate from experimental to sid, experimential just provides devs a palce to put packages for testing that they don't think are ready for unstable.
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19:22<tor_>I need help with zoneminder and buster!
19:23<tor_>I need install zoneminder from stretch-backports but libmariadbclient18 conflict with libmariadb3...
19:24<annadane>,v zoneminder
19:24<judd>Package: zoneminder on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 1.30.4+dfsg-2~bpo9+1; sid: 1.32.3-2; stretch-multimedia: 2:1.30.4-dmo1+deb9u2; bullseye-multimedia: 2:1.32.3-dmo4; buster-multimedia: 2:1.32.3-dmo4; sid-multimedia: 2:1.32.3-dmo4
19:25<tor_>ok thanks judd!
19:25<annadane>that doesn't actually help you
19:25<annadane>also, judd is a bot
19:25<annadane>i was just checking if zoneminder wasn't already in buster
19:25<tor_>lol
19:25<annadane>(don't be fooled by "buster"-multimedia. don't use -multimedia packages)
19:26<tor_>ok judd don't help me please!
19:30<somiaj>ugg, I wouldn't trust dmo, but it appears that zonereminder is not in buster, you may want to find out why.
19:30<tor_>downgrade zoneminder it's recomended?
19:30<jmcnaught>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=922724
19:30<somiaj>installing it from stretch-backports is not recommended.
19:30<tor_>ok
19:30<jmcnaught>tor_: ^^ this bug report is the reason zoneminder is not included in buster
19:31<somiaj>yea, looks like they refuse to give it security support. You may want to compile it from source and build your own package
19:31<somiaj>!ssb
19:31<dpkg>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
19:31<somiaj>or maybe the matainer will upload it to buster-backports, but you may have to wait a bit on that.
19:32<somiaj>since they uploaded it to stretch-backports, I would expect them to do the same, but will have to be paitent
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19:34<tor_>ok thanks somiaj!
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19:42<wolfmannight>I found problem user account not created in live boot
19:42<wolfmannight>How to fix ?
19:43<wolfmannight>I can able to create new account using adduser in init=/bin/sh mode
19:44<wolfmannight>I need to add package in live-build. Anyone know which package create user in live-build ?
19:45<somiaj>https://live-team.pages.debian.net/live-manual/html/live-manual/customizing-run-time-behaviours.en.html#522 -- have you read that?
19:45<wolfmannight>Yahh adding username=user not creating it
19:52<wolfmannight>How to switch to gui mode from init=/bin/sh mode ?
19:52<wolfmannight>Without restart
19:54<sarnold>wolfmannight: I'm not sure you can. *maybe* 'exec /lib/systemd/systemd would do the job, but it might expect a very different startup environment than you've given it
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19:56<wolfmannight>Trying to run as user instance, but the system has not been booted with systemd
19:57<wolfmannight>^^ error message
19:58<sarnold>did you include the 'exec'?
19:58<wolfmannight>Yahh
19:58<sarnold>bummer. :/
19:59<sarnold>*sometimes* you can end that shell and the system will resume boot, but it's been like a dozen years since I've done that.
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20:10<mongoose>hello
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20:35<wannabe-mirror>hello mongoose
20:37<wannabe-mirror>so virtualbox won't be available in buster in any shape or form?
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20:39<sarnold>wannabe-mirror: note that mongoose left about thirty seconds after saying hello
20:39<sdk>wannabe-mirror: They have there own deb repository if you don't mind adding an external deb source to your box (https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads)
20:41<somiaj>virtualbox will most likely be in buster-backports once everything catches up from the initial release
20:42<somiaj>virtualbox is provided via -backports because of security support issues, debian cannot support a frozen version, so it is provided in backports with newerversions = security support (it is just slower than the offical packages)
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21:38<ach><3 dane
21:41<fdelapena>tlsa?
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22:18<sakax>how can I make xinput settings persistent for my trackpoint?
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22:30<sdk>sakax: IIRC, you can add a config file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/
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22:32<sdk>sakax: Here's an example https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Input_device_configuration
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23:09<sakax>sdk: I read the info
23:09<sakax>I tried to convert my working 2 xinput commands in xorg settings
23:09<sakax>https://paste.debian.net/1091723/
23:09<sakax>but it doesnt seem to work
23:10<sakax>I dont know which integer to use for Option "AccelerationProfile" "1"
23:10<sakax>the xinput command uses 0, 1
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23:15<skx>I dont understand why the working xinput settings cannot be made persistent
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23:42<annadane>having an issue with virt-manager, i had installed it and rebooted so all the permissions should be fine, but when i launch as unprivileged user i get QEMU/KVM - not connected shown on the display and clicking 'connect' does nothing
23:44<sarnold>what does id report for your groups?
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23:44<annadane>uid=1000(annadane) gid=1000(annadane) groups=1000(annadane),24(cdrom),25(floppy),29(audio),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),109(netdev)
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23:44<sarnold>no libvirtd? is that intentional? expected?
23:45<annadane>i don't know, i'd never checked it before
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23:45<annadane>it's always just worked
23:45<annadane>i wonder if i could dpkg --configure virt-manager...
23:45<sarnold>at least ubuntu's got libvirtd group to gate privs for libvirt, and I've always assumed we got that from debian
23:45<annadane>no but even without being in the libvirt group it's prompted me for my root password
23:45<annadane>here it just says 'not connected'
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23:47<annadane>systemctl status virtlogd.service inactive...
23:47<annadane>maybe i need to start one or multiple of these services
23:48<sarnold>hmm.. if it prompted you for your password in the past that might be polkit
23:48<annadane>right...
23:48<annadane>i can install one, i just don't know which to install
23:48<annadane>i'm on xfce
23:49<annadane>https://paste.debian.net/1091725/
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23:49<annadane>apt show - N: Can't select versions from package 'polkit-1-auth-agent' as it is purely virtual
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23:51<sarnold>annadane: do you have any of these? lxpolkit lxqt-policykit mate-polkit polkit-kde-agent-1
23:51<annadane>i have lxpolkit
23:51<sarnold>annadane: those are the ones I've got available in my ubuntu bionic box, "apt cache search pok agent"
23:51<sarnold>pol rather
23:51<annadane>i'd installed i3 first and then xfce later
23:52<sarnold>heh yeah, my newest laptop I installed that way. bloody long process to get everything..
23:53<annadane>i wonder if i should just apt show xfce4 and see if a polkit is in depends/recommends and just install that one
23:53<annadane>nope
23:55<annadane>should i just purge virt-manager and reinstall everything :P
23:55-!-dbristow [~dbristow@ool-18bc40ae.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:55<sarnold>probably won't help but itmight feel good :)
23:56<annadane>i've never done i3 then xfce so this is surely due to dependencies
23:56<sarnold>time to run, have a good time of day annadane
23:56<annadane>well if anyone else knows feel free to tell me
23:56<annadane>unless i try polkit agents at random
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 16 00:00:10 2019